1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,760
Hello there, I'm James Wan. 
And I'm Kane Parsons. 

2
00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:07,880
And you're listening to the A 24
podcast, Kane buddy, how are 

3
00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:09,080
you, man? 
I'm doing well. 

4
00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:10,040
How you doing? 
James Good, good. 

5
00:00:10,120 --> 00:00:15,240
I'm, I'm well as well. 
So we're here to talk about all 

6
00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,280
things back rooms and, and 
everything related to it and 

7
00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:22,240
yourself obviously, yeah. 
I, I have a lot I can say. 

8
00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:26,360
So it's been, it's been a pretty
all consuming like 4:00-ish 

9
00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:27,960
years or so now. 
So. 

10
00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:33,040
So it's been, it's been a pretty
long journey for you from I 

11
00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,640
guess from where you started 
with the shorts, right, the 

12
00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:41,520
first short all the way to now 
the full on proper feature film 

13
00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,880
version of it. 
And it's been quite the journey.

14
00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,840
It is changed in ways that I 
definitely did not expect when I

15
00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:52,080
initially posted that short. 
And I mean, you were, you were, 

16
00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,120
you were present at the very 
beginning of that, I think. 

17
00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,000
I think, I think if I'm not 
mistaken, the first time we met,

18
00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,640
it was over Zoom. 
And I think you were in post on 

19
00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,120
Aquaman. 
Too right that sounds. 

20
00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,600
And you walked in and you were 
eating a salad and you said 

21
00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:10,600
hello and we talked for like one
or two minutes and stepped up. 

22
00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:12,520
But I think that was, I think 
that was the first time. 

23
00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,280
That was the first time we met 
via Zoom, Yes and and I was 

24
00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:20,360
eating a salad or one of us was.
It seared into my brain and 

25
00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:21,840
that's funny. 
It's forever my. 

26
00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:23,680
That's cool. 
And but then we met in person 

27
00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:28,560
when you came out to LA to visit
us on the set of Night Swim. 

28
00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:29,680
Yeah, Yeah. 
Right. 

29
00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:31,400
I can't remember. 
What year was that it? 

30
00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,080
Was 2023 That was 23. 
OK, 2023, so just like 3 years 

31
00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,640
ago exactly to. 
Three years ago And how old were

32
00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,560
you when you came to visit us? 
Would have been 17. 17 wow 

33
00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,160
amazing. 
So I definitely have a lot of 

34
00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:48,160
questions I want to ask you. 
And and I guess the best place 

35
00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:52,480
to possibly start is let's go 
all the way back. 

36
00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,520
You know, let's take us back. 
I would actually go back beyond 

37
00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:01,080
to, you know, to what you were 
doing that led you to your 

38
00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,960
interest in in making shorts in 
film making in general. 

39
00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,680
So I'd love to hear a little bit
about, you know, your, your, 

40
00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:09,479
your history there and your 
passion and what kind of got you

41
00:02:09,479 --> 00:02:12,880
into all of this. 
Yeah, I mean, I, I try, I try my

42
00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:14,400
best to trace it. 
So I'm, I'm sure there's some 

43
00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:18,280
things that are like results of 
random subconscious, you know, 

44
00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,560
of course, like there's gonna be
some like noise to it that I 

45
00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:22,880
can't quite pick up. 
But I, but I know that I've 

46
00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,600
always kind of had a tendency or
a bias since trial to, to go 

47
00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,560
towards something, a version of 
creativity in some way. 

48
00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:34,240
And I've had, you know, an 
upbringing that did not directly

49
00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,160
like disable that, that desire. 
It was like I was able to find 

50
00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:39,840
ways to do it mostly through 
like, you know, like I was 

51
00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:42,280
drawing like growing up quite a 
bit. 

52
00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:44,320
Like that was a, a big thing I 
would spend a lot of time doing 

53
00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,080
And, and that would turn into 
like, like I, I eventually got 

54
00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:53,040
like, like an old like digicam 
camera and I would like go and 

55
00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,160
like do a little stop motion 
animation with Lego. 

56
00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,200
And it's like, I don't think it 
was a particularly unique start 

57
00:02:58,200 --> 00:02:59,720
in that way. 
It's like, it's like, it's a 

58
00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,200
pretty common, I guess, like 
activities as a kid when I want 

59
00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,120
to go in that direction. 
I remember probably by around 

60
00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:10,760
the time I was like 9 or so, I 
was like, I had like the term 

61
00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,440
filmmaker was a thing or 
director was in my brain enough 

62
00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:15,560
that I was like, yeah, I like, I
like movies. 

63
00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:16,840
I want to make movies. 
That's cool. 

64
00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:18,600
I didn't have like a lot of 
access to the Internet until I 

65
00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,800
was around like 8 or 9 or so. 
Right, because your parents were

66
00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:23,320
keeping you away from the 
Internet. 

67
00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:23,920
Yeah. 
They were smart. 

68
00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:26,080
OK, But. 
But it sounds to me like they 

69
00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,800
were very supportive of of the 
kind of things that you went to,

70
00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:29,240
right? 
Yeah. 

71
00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:31,000
Yeah. 
And the fact that you said that 

72
00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,120
they didn't hold you back and 
they just kind of let you 

73
00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,920
experiment and play it and 
basically just explore your 

74
00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,160
creativity. 
So it seems to me like you were 

75
00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,240
really into, you know, like you 
were kind of drawn to things 

76
00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,480
that were off the visual arts. 
Like you would definitely 

77
00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:46,320
attract it to visual. 
Yeah. 

78
00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,680
Visuals. 
My brain is very like strictly 

79
00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,840
visual most of the time, like 
usually like words or visuals in

80
00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:53,680
my head rather than actual like 
sounds and stuff. 

81
00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:58,080
So it's usually like very. 
So you see things in your head, 

82
00:03:58,080 --> 00:03:59,280
right? 
You see it and they. 

83
00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,240
Very clearly, but I. 
Can't get it out so I. 

84
00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,600
Can't do for some reason I can't
do like written language in my 

85
00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,920
head but I can only do visuals. 
So it's like I kind. 

86
00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,920
Of I totally get it quite a bit.
Yeah, that's super cool. 

87
00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,160
Yeah, so like I, I know that 
around that time I had 

88
00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:16,120
PlayStation 3 and I was very 
into, I got into Minecraft for 

89
00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,320
my friends and there was like 
this game, Little big planet, 

90
00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,520
like these are sandbox games 
where you can like have create 

91
00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:24,360
functions. 
And so I was, you know, 

92
00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:29,520
exploring what it's like to, you
know, create something under the

93
00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,360
guise of like a technically a 3D
program, even though it's inside

94
00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,080
of like a game engine and it's 
like oriented as a game. 

95
00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,640
I was sort of like getting the 
feeling for like, oh, look, I 

96
00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,320
can make a thing and then other 
people come in and interact with

97
00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,320
this thing and then I can kind 
of upscale the feeling of like I

98
00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,160
want to curate this experience 
more and more. 

99
00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,960
And these are not this. 
Nothing about this was grand or 

100
00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,760
like hyper compelling because it
was like 9 and 10 and you know 

101
00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:53,000
none of. 
This was OK. 

102
00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,480
So you were doing all this 
around 9:00 or 10:00-ish years 

103
00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:56,760
old? 
Yeah, But what I would, I guess 

104
00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:58,840
I would highlight is like it's 
no different than what I think 

105
00:04:58,840 --> 00:05:02,080
most of my peers were doing. 
Like even people who don't have 

106
00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,760
a desire to go into art field 
zoo, it's like building stuff in

107
00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:06,680
Minecraft. 
Creative mode was very like, 

108
00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:08,400
right? 
It was just playing. 

109
00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,800
To you guys, you, you just 
playing basically right It was. 

110
00:05:10,840 --> 00:05:13,480
Playing and I would take it a 
little more seriously probably 

111
00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,680
where like I would like come up 
with super contrived rules for 

112
00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,280
like some random like sub game 
we wanted to play or something. 

113
00:05:20,280 --> 00:05:22,480
And then it was like was 
simultaneously watching a lot of

114
00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,960
VFX driven work on YouTube, like
independent Youtubers, like 

115
00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,640
older crews, sort of stuff, you 
know, encouraging people to just

116
00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,720
like, hey, like any anyone can 
kind of with the right software,

117
00:05:31,840 --> 00:05:33,440
you don't even need the good 
hardware for it. 

118
00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,160
And it's like a simple camera, 
you can you can do rudimentary 

119
00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,400
VFX work. 
And I kind of got a bit of an 

120
00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,800
appetite for that. 
And then I pirated way too much 

121
00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:45,560
software and got a bunch of 
viruses and technically doing 

122
00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:47,880
some filmmaking stuff on my 
parents phone. 

123
00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,360
And it was kind of like game 
oriented largely like I was 

124
00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:51,120
really. 
You know what? 

125
00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,800
This is actually good to talk 
about because what it does show 

126
00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,920
is your journey to become a film
maker actually went down to 

127
00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:00,560
paths, right? 
Like you were shooting stuff, 

128
00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:02,920
you were making little things on
the side, but also like you were

129
00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,120
saying your your brain of like 
being into the technical, like 

130
00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:10,000
the computing side of things. 
That then also informs the way 

131
00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,240
you make your little shorts, 
right? 

132
00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:14,160
Yeah. 
So you understanding the 

133
00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,240
computing aspect of film makers 
of of just storytelling in 

134
00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:21,280
general and how you would use 
that to inform the kind of stuff

135
00:06:21,280 --> 00:06:25,000
that you would make. 
And so that became a big part of

136
00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,680
what you did right, You know, 
like a big part of like, you 

137
00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,280
know, like all that sort of 
computer language and 

138
00:06:30,280 --> 00:06:32,520
programming and, and 
understanding that you have 

139
00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:36,400
there and sort of using that as 
as the visual effects sort of 

140
00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,080
backbones to what you were 
making your shorts with. 

141
00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,200
And so I think that's really 
interesting that you didn't 

142
00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,400
actually necessarily go down the
path of, Hey, I want to be a 

143
00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,400
video game maker, but you sort 
of stuck to storytelling, film 

144
00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,720
making, but using the craft that
you had the passion and you had 

145
00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,760
learned acquired to to kind of 
assist you in your film making. 

146
00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:58,760
Yeah, yeah, I mean, like I 
definitely, it was around like 

147
00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:00,920
the beginning of middle school 
that that's when I was, you 

148
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,000
know, getting the software and 
trying out After Effects for the

149
00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,080
first time and was like doing a 
bunch of tutorials. 

150
00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,640
And it was mostly like project 
based where, you know, I would 

151
00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,040
get excited about a scene or a 
visual or a moment in my head 

152
00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,560
that I wanted to see exist. 
But it had, there's no nothing 

153
00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:15,920
surrounding it supporting that 
moment. 

154
00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,680
So it's like, OK, so now I gotta
learn how to do these things so 

155
00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,240
I can make that moment. 
So I gotta learn the software 

156
00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,840
and also like I need to learn 
how to edit it properly so I can

157
00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,080
put the right kind of reverb on 
this music that I'm hearing. 

158
00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:30,960
And like, not now when we need 
to like build a whole little 

159
00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,480
short film around this moment 
just so it makes sense in a 

160
00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:35,600
context. 
And then that was kind of like I

161
00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,240
not accidentally, but I kind of 
just like went through the 

162
00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,800
process a few times with a few 
different short films when I was

163
00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:43,800
again, like, these things are 
not, they're not on YouTube for 

164
00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,360
a reason. 
Like I've privated them, but 

165
00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,640
like, you know, I was, I was 
definitely pretty active doing 

166
00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:50,080
stuff in any free time I could 
get. 

167
00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,360
It was like the only thing I 
would do starting, starting in 

168
00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,800
like end of elementary school. 
It just became a pretty like 

169
00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:02,520
laser focused sort of obsession.
And I, I think like it was once 

170
00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,920
I got it, once I really kind of 
like felt like I was getting a 

171
00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,560
hang of After Effects and like 
the 3D tools available to me in 

172
00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,440
there and taking advantage of 
some student licenses and stuff.

173
00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,000
Then that just kind of became an
addiction and I was like only 

174
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,240
only using. 
But you enjoy, right? 

175
00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,000
You enjoy using these programs. 
It's so much fun. 

176
00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,200
It's so funny because I started 
using After Effects in high 

177
00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,120
school and you know, I started 
using it because it was part of 

178
00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:25,800
my school program and stuff like
that. 

179
00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,600
But I can't get bored of it. 
But the technical stuff, I enjoy

180
00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,680
the technical stuff of film 
making and doing stuff like 

181
00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,039
this, but they're just sitting. 
I got to some point where I'm 

182
00:08:34,039 --> 00:08:36,880
like, this is just too much for 
me. 

183
00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,120
I, I just want to get out there.
I just want to get out there and

184
00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,280
just shoot from the hip and 
just, you know, kind of, you 

185
00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,360
know, just become a bit more 
running gun, right? 

186
00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,880
I found the process a little bit
too the typical site, sometimes 

187
00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:49,920
a little bit too limiting, at 
least for me. 

188
00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,200
But clearly you enjoyed it, and 
you embraced. 

189
00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,680
It, yeah, it's, it's because I, 
I think the I, I like, I have a 

190
00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:58,360
hard time with uncontrollable 
variables and whatnot. 

191
00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,200
So I, I think that for me, I, I,
I enjoy a certain level of run 

192
00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,200
and gun. 
But but I I think I am the kind 

193
00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,040
of person who needs to know 
every single thing about the 

194
00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,320
thing I'm making before any 
other people are even involved 

195
00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:13,960
with it, or before anything 
else, even before there's a 

196
00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:15,280
chance for something to get you 
know what? 

197
00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:16,960
That's a really good trait for a
director to have. 

198
00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:18,760
I to. 
Be well prepared, yeah? 

199
00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,400
Of course, but I think like, you
know, because I was a kid in 

200
00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:23,520
middle school, I wasn't like I 
was doing film making, but it 

201
00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,480
wasn't like serious like it was 
inherently there's like a joke 

202
00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:27,960
component to what I was doing, 
but it. 

203
00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,640
Was like, you know, just playing
around it. 

204
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,280
It wasn't like career path yet 
at that point. 

205
00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:33,520
Right. 
I wasn't thinking about it in 

206
00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,160
that way. 
I, I did a few like local level 

207
00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,720
film festivals around that time 
and, and like, so you know, they

208
00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:39,680
were part of my brain was 
definitely thinking about it in,

209
00:09:39,680 --> 00:09:41,280
in that way. 
But I was still thinking like, 

210
00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,040
OK, time to go through high 
school and then I'll go to 

211
00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,560
college for film school. 
And then then I don't know what 

212
00:09:46,560 --> 00:09:48,320
happens after that, but I'll 
probably make movies. 

213
00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,800
It's like, right, Some vague 
notion of that. 

214
00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:55,000
So, so let's talk about that. 
How in your journey did all of 

215
00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,800
that, what you just stated 
there, right, LED you to your 

216
00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,040
very first short with backrooms.
I'm sure you made a lot of other

217
00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,200
stuff before that, but how did 
all this lead to backrooms? 

218
00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:05,680
It was a beginning, beginning of
the pandemic. 

219
00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:07,560
I got into Blender. 
I started teaching myself 

220
00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:10,040
Blender. 
I, you know, I was fortunate 

221
00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,120
enough to have a situation where
I was just, you know, blocked 

222
00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:17,000
that home and, and I, he was 
doing zoom classes and I was 

223
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,480
able to sort of. 
This was 20/20/20 and how old 

224
00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:22,680
were you? 
I was 14. 

225
00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:24,480
OK. 
You know, I was getting into 

226
00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,400
Blender. 
I was, maybe I didn't mention it

227
00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:27,800
earlier. 
I'm a big fan of the Valve 

228
00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,360
properties like Portal and Half 
Life, and those majorly informed

229
00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:31,880
a lot of my creative 
sensibilities. 

230
00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,080
I think growing up. 
And that was around the time 

231
00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,520
Half Life Alex was coming out 
and I, I was wanted to do fan 

232
00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,680
art for that. 
And that got me like really 

233
00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:41,720
motivated to figure some stuff 
out in Blender. 

234
00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,200
And then I did some things and 
then I was like, wait a minute, 

235
00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:45,800
now I just kind of know how to 
use Blender. 

236
00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:49,040
And so I could start within like
a couple like 2 weeks or so. 

237
00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,360
Like Blender's really intuitive,
you know, when you're young and 

238
00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,920
near software, you're able to 
kind of pick it up through 

239
00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,960
osmosis kind of like quickly. 
But, but I do think it's just 

240
00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,600
genuinely a they, they, they've 
streamlined the software in such

241
00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,400
a way that it is like very 
accessible. 

242
00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:03,600
But I, I, you know, started 
doing that. 

243
00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,000
I made a few films again like 
that year. 

244
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,400
But then by 2021, I, I had 
gotten back into Attack on 

245
00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,200
Titan, which is, you know, 
obviously a pretty big property 

246
00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,280
around the world. 
And I was basically adapting set

247
00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:19,120
pieces from that into found 
footage, but it was in like 19, 

248
00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,560
thirties 1940s war like film 
footage of like set pieces 

249
00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:25,440
inside that world. 
And those like that was when my 

250
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,640
channel actually took off. 
OK, wait, hang on, You were 

251
00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:34,280
creating images for that, but 
just just inventing making them 

252
00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,280
up on through Blend or whatever 
program? 

253
00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,800
Yeah, what I was. 
Doing is because it's an anime 

254
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:40,840
and manga. 
This was like a fan, kind of 

255
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:42,280
like, you know, short or 
whatever. 

256
00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:43,880
A fan project. 
So it was an anime and manga and

257
00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,000
what I was doing was like a 
series of these videos. 

258
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,240
Well, I did one thinking it was,
it's gonna be 1, but then people

259
00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:49,960
lost their minds over it. 
So I started doing more. 

260
00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,120
But it was like basically, what 
would it look like? 

261
00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,280
What, what would an actual 
honest perspective into that 

262
00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,880
world look like if it was 
somehow real? 

263
00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:58,880
So just like what does a 
scarier, more realistic approach

264
00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:00,080
of just viewing this thing look 
like? 

265
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,680
And, and so I, that's what I put
out using Blender. 

266
00:12:02,680 --> 00:12:04,520
So it's all things from the 
series, but just through a 

267
00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,200
slightly different lens. 
But was it still animation like 

268
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:07,960
it? 
Like 2D. 

269
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,280
Animation blender lots of 
compositing so so it looked 

270
00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,480
roughly I mean like hoping you 
see past the effects flaws like 

271
00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,520
it the goal being it looks like 
real authentic but. 

272
00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,200
But real world? 
From like 30s or 40s live. 

273
00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,480
Action. 
Yeah black and white live action

274
00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:27,200
totally like trying to look 
photo real, right and and so 

275
00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,640
like that I'd never had any kind
of engagement like that before 

276
00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,040
It's like the first one did like
10 million views and like the 

277
00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:34,400
next one did like another 10 
million. 

278
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,240
It like wow it kept like going 
big in my channel I think got 

279
00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,400
200,000 subscribers from that 
and then wow. 

280
00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,440
But I did that for all of 2021 
and like I was riding a high 

281
00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:44,240
with like that was that was 
really exciting. 

282
00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,200
I yeah, it was great having. 
You were getting validated, 

283
00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,360
Yeah. 
And it was. 

284
00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,800
Like motivation to like every 
week they wanted to do things. 

285
00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,120
So it was like I was constantly 
kind of churning stuff out and 

286
00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,040
that was just fun. 
That's cool because I. 

287
00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,480
Especially during the lockdown 
when you didn't really have. 

288
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,960
Yeah, yeah. 
I, I, I certainly found a lot to

289
00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,280
do during that time, but then I 
got fatigued by it. 

290
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,800
And because I used up all the 
plot points in the series that I

291
00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,040
could adapt and. 
But people wanted more still. 

292
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,400
And I was kind of like, OK, 
well, I kind of want to do other

293
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:16,320
things now that winter in 2021. 
I I I guess for a preamble I 

294
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,160
have to do a preamble about like
what the backgrounds are? 

295
00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,680
I would assume probably just. 
Like to give us a little bit of 

296
00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:22,760
history of where all that. 
Comes from 2019. 

297
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,800
There was this 4 Chan post which
is, you know, totally anonymous.

298
00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,000
Anything posted there or at 
least in this context is not 

299
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,560
really traceable and we can't at
this point in time determine 

300
00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:35,960
whoever's who posted any of 
this, which has been a big 

301
00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:37,440
defining part of the 
backgrounds. 

302
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,720
It's, it's weird, but basically 
there's an image posted of a 

303
00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:44,480
like a off yellow sort of dingy,
you know, it's unclear if it was

304
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:46,880
an office space for the back of 
a furniture store or what. 

305
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,480
With just a caption, like a 
single paragraph caption 

306
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,200
basically setting up a concept 
of if you're not careful and you

307
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,200
no clip out of reality in the 
wrong areas. 

308
00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,240
And no clip is like a video game
term for phasing through a solid

309
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,600
surface, like out of the world. 
If you fall out of reality in 

310
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:03,800
the wrong areas, you'll you'll 
end up in the backgrounds, which

311
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:09,400
is essentially an essentially 
endless array of like kind of 

312
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:11,560
not quite repeating. 
But you could think of it as 

313
00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:15,920
like procedurally generated or 
just like you could keep going, 

314
00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,200
walking in any direction and 
you'll just be stuck in this 

315
00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,680
world of, you know, drop 
ceiling, this yellow wallpaper 

316
00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,120
that's just kind of like sulfur 
looking. 

317
00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,920
And so it's a maze like world 
that just kind of keeps. 

318
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,200
Going it's a maze like world 
that doesn't have an inherent 

319
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,120
point to it. 
And I think the idea, what I 

320
00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,200
always appreciate it is that 
it's just described like it's a 

321
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,080
natural phenomenon. 
There's nothing like like like 

322
00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:44,440
spiritual or or like there's no 
the moral morality to it. 

323
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,880
So it's not like it's a divine 
judgement. 

324
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,240
If like like if you've done 
wrong, if you've got guilt 

325
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:50,760
harbor, it'll take you away or 
something. 

326
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:52,080
It's just like it's not. 
Hell. 

327
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,320
Yeah, it's not hell, it's not 
even like quite purgatory, 

328
00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,760
'cause it you don't do anything 
to end up there, it just 

329
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,200
randomly happens and you can't 
really do anything to get out. 

330
00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:00,680
It's just. 
Like you said, a procedural 

331
00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,040
dungeon run. 
Yeah, it's just a hypothetical. 

332
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,680
Like it's just, it's playing 
into the the feeling of 

333
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,160
glitching and getting stuck in a
video game basically. 

334
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:09,960
And it's like there's no 
fairness in it. 

335
00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,240
There's no it's just like that 
really sucks if that happens, 

336
00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,840
right, And so that's why it kind
of caught on is like a man 

337
00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,480
that's like a pretty abysmal. 
Can you imagine that? 

338
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,440
It's like, you know, imagine 
being in like that monotonous, 

339
00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:26,480
you know, it's, it's like such a
mundane, mediocre sort of 

340
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,680
environment that could be in any
place. 

341
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:30,680
Basically it's. 
Because visually, it's not that 

342
00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:32,760
sexy, right? 
It's not, it's not like a dark, 

343
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,080
creepy place. 
That's what people creep comes 

344
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:35,840
from. 
Yeah. 

345
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:37,200
Yeah. 
Just the mundaneness of it. 

346
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:38,920
Just like how bland it looks, 
right? 

347
00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:40,520
I've seen. 
And so it started with a 

348
00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,480
picture, right? 
That one picture. 

349
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:44,600
But then people started building
upon it, right? 

350
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,200
They started adding stories to 
it. 

351
00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:48,240
So they're adding myth and law 
to it. 

352
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:50,200
Is that how it? 
So, so that picture, that 

353
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,160
picture was posted. 
Someone else saved it. 

354
00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:53,880
I mean, that picture had been 
floating around since the early 

355
00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:55,800
2000s. 
It's from a furniture store in 

356
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,040
Oshkosh, WI. 
But basically, yeah, they posted

357
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,120
it with a caption and that 
became a screenshot. 

358
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,960
And then like it it that 
screenshot floated around like 

359
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:04,960
everywhere as a meme around May 
of 2019. 

360
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:06,640
And I saw it. 
I was in middle school. 

361
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:08,920
I was aware of it. 
I didn't see it and immediately 

362
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,600
go, whoa, I need to make AI need
to make a series and a movie. 

363
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,560
And like that was very that 
wouldn't have ever crossed my 

364
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:17,240
mind. 
It was, it was more of a, this 

365
00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,720
is, this is a random thing on 
the Internet that is weirdly 

366
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,280
intriguing. 
And I, I can tell why people are

367
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,360
interested in this and I kind of
want more of it, but there's 

368
00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,680
nothing more to get because it's
just an image and a caption. 

369
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,400
And, and then, then I moved on 
and everyone else moved on and 

370
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,160
we stopped hearing about the 
backrooms for the most part. 

371
00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,400
And you would get an occasional 
reference to it here and there. 

372
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,600
You would get, you know, memes. 
A character falls through the 

373
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:38,720
ground out of ATV that Peter 
Griffin falls through the 

374
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,200
sidewalk and lands in the 
backgrounds or something. 

375
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,760
And the punchline is just, wow, 
he's fucked pretty much. 

376
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,160
And, and, and it basically like 
people I understand now and I 

377
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,400
did kind of understand at the 
time, like there were some 

378
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:58,240
groups on like like wikis and 
stuff writing basically doing 

379
00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,320
more with the notion of the 
backrooms where it's like, what 

380
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,119
if there's sort of like a game 
like level system to it? 

381
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,079
And, and again, like I'm, I 
don't mean to misrepresent like 

382
00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:10,880
that side of the community, but 
it's in my understanding that 

383
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,560
it's more of like a community 
driven sort of like the SCP 

384
00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:15,400
foundation. 
If people are aware of that, 

385
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:19,119
it's sort of like most anyone 
can add because there's no 

386
00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,599
direct author and there's no 
claim to authorship of this 

387
00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:24,520
thing. 
So it's just like the main lore 

388
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,960
that people would consider 
outside of my adaptation of 

389
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:32,160
backgrounds would be just kind 
of a miscellaneous collection of

390
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:34,880
little entries that like many 
different people with many 

391
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:36,160
different views of the 
background, so. 

392
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:38,360
Right, right. 
Right, but it's somehow viewed 

393
00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:40,680
as one coherent thing, even 
though it's definitely not. 

394
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,120
Got it. 
So then you came into it. 

395
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,960
Yeah. 
And then tell us your 

396
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:49,560
contribution to to the world. 
I mean, I, I just wanted to 

397
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,080
like, I didn't in my mind, I 
wasn't thinking of like these 

398
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:53,480
people are not getting the 
backgrounds. 

399
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,560
I'm going to step in and show 
them how it was not, you know, 

400
00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,160
so far. 
I, I was just into, you know, 

401
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:00,760
like I, I was getting back into 
these. 

402
00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:03,760
In life, you know it's a 
discovery process, right? 

403
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:05,760
And you discovered it. 
I was, I was getting back into 

404
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,120
these liminal space photo 
compilations and stuff and it 

405
00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:10,800
was like, man, this is, I want 
to scratch this itch. 

406
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:11,880
I want to see what comes with 
this. 

407
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,240
And I went in Blender and I made
environments that felt true to 

408
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:17,240
what the backrooms wanted to be 
and were trying to be. 

409
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,840
And I just kind of like moved 
the camera through and it's like

410
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,680
this, this is just a fun, 
relaxing project where I tried 

411
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:24,920
to evoke the feeling of this 
place, but in the video form 

412
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,760
rather than imagery. 
I didn't even like the opening 

413
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:29,960
thing was just like a thing I 
filmed after I did everything 

414
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,000
else when I was like, it's like,
OK, well, to make this a proper 

415
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,960
like film, like, how do I what's
a weigh in? 

416
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,480
What's a quick, easy way in that
just gets us out of the real 

417
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,800
world and into the rest of the 
the short? 

418
00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,560
And it's like, just got my 
friends at school one day just 

419
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,440
to stand around and they didn't 
really know what it was for 

420
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:47,320
exactly. 
And I just like got my, I was 

421
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,400
doing it on my phone and I ran 
the whole thing through the VCR.

422
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,320
So, so it, you know, it doesn't 
look like iPhone footage really,

423
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,840
but and then just like at the 
end of it, just make the camera 

424
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:56,560
go to the ground and they're 
like, what was that? 

425
00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,960
Why did you do that? 
And it's like like I'll, I'll 

426
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:00,240
show you in a few days and then 
and. 

427
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,520
Then show you in a few days. 
And it got posted and it didn't 

428
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:05,400
do great for like the first two 
days. 

429
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,480
And then somehow I guess like 
some, some shadow figure behind 

430
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,920
the scenes pulled a lever or 
something, 'cause it's like it 

431
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,520
suddenly started getting in the 
inboxes of or sorry, in the like

432
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,200
the, the feeds of certain 
reaction Youtubers. 

433
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,880
And they started watching it. 
And then that made it like, go 

434
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:21,080
go nuts. 
Wow. 

435
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:23,880
And it went nuts and but pretty 
much immediately within the same

436
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,480
day, because I'm neglecting to 
mention one kind of important 

437
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,160
part of this, I think, which is 
that I had had this other story 

438
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,920
and you know, as you do, just 
another random story that I had 

439
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,400
in my head for a little bit at 
the time. 

440
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,080
It wasn't defined exactly, but 
it was like enough of an engine 

441
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,320
there that is like I knew I 
wanted to explore it, didn't 

442
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,120
know how like what the 
opportunity would be. 

443
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:44,920
And I realized backrooms could 
just totally like these two 

444
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,080
things could melt together and 
then boom, there's like a very 

445
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,280
specific plot and structure that
I can just start immediately. 

446
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:52,800
And I did. 
And so like within like a day of

447
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,600
of that first short, I started 
teasing this element with like 

448
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,560
this the the Async Research 
Institute, which makes it more 

449
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:05,720
of a sort of sort of like a worn
down, like a like a mystery 

450
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,440
techno thriller with 
supernatural elements like 

451
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,520
underneath. 
I'm not great with genre labels,

452
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,040
but I would say that's kind of 
what it's become. 

453
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,520
Right, right. 
So obviously it stood up very 

454
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,440
innocently. 
But then as you sort of like 

455
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,320
progress and the IDs came to you
like, oh, maybe I can put a 

456
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,000
supernatural spin to this. 
Yeah, well, I think it's 

457
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,400
inherently supernatural When I 
say supernatural, like my 

458
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,240
version of supernatural, I 
personally am really drawn to 

459
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,640
any like I I need my 
supernatural to feel like hard 

460
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,640
sci-fi. 
Usually I like things to feel 

461
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,960
like nature and like I mean like
I was talking about with the 

462
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,040
backgrounds. 
I, I think I personally, as a 

463
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:40,120
creative struggle with things 
that promote an overly human 

464
00:20:40,120 --> 00:20:43,400
view of existence and of life. 
And usually I'm biased towards 

465
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,880
things that feel like humans are
incidental to nature in some 

466
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:48,440
way. 
Rather than being like a driving

467
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:52,280
factor to the world to be within
and letting like the laws of the

468
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:58,560
universe be more more, you know,
factors that that that resulted 

469
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,920
in our consciousness being the 
way it is and perceiving a sort 

470
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,480
of sense of importance being 
like derived from just 

471
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,360
happenstance and being essential
to existing and living and 

472
00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:12,720
procreating and stuff. 
So anyway, I feel like what I 

473
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,360
was excited about with with that
concept was being able to sort 

474
00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:21,440
of get past like the initial 
like, OK, we have a short about 

475
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,200
someone falling into the 
backgrounds and it's a scary, it

476
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,760
is a scary place. 
And but I think it's like more 

477
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:28,840
intriguing than people give it 
credit for. 

478
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,760
Like I think people do miss the 
mark sometimes with their own 

479
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,640
backgrounds projects when they 
go for like a space where the 

480
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,680
lights get too dark, it gets too
green, it's like scary scary. 

481
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,120
Like if it's trying to be like a
dark haunted house or a dungeon,

482
00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:42,960
it just falls apart because 
that's not the original image is

483
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,720
very bright and it's very like 
low contrast and kind of like 

484
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,880
faded looking. 
So you're saying try that? 

485
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,640
The key here is to not make it 
look like a horror movie. 

486
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,400
Yeah, I think just the. 
The blandness, the simplicity, 

487
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,560
the the the fact that it feels 
like everyday life is what makes

488
00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,360
it kind of terrifying. 
It's the context in the the the 

489
00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:02,440
way it extrapolates pretty much 
infinitely. 

490
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,480
That's like the that's where the
horror lies. 

491
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:05,920
It can't be in the inherent 
visual. 

492
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,520
It's the context that does it 
right though the the visual is 

493
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,000
off putting. 
And can I ask you so 

494
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:16,320
philosophically, do you think 
there is this concept of the, 

495
00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:20,480
the, the, the fear of technology
or obviously that's not the case

496
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,880
because, you know, you're 
obviously embracing technology 

497
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,720
in such a big way. 
But but do you think is that 

498
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,760
what you're speaking to to some 
degree here when you said, you 

499
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,160
know, like you sort of leaning 
to the more like the hard 

500
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,520
science of where you know a lot 
of like the scary stuff is 

501
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:34,360
coming from? 
Yeah. 

502
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,560
So I would say that that the 
backrooms is a thing in the 

503
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:42,440
first place because no, I mean, 
I, I would say one of the main 

504
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,400
anxieties it's reacting to, if 
not the main anxiety is, is the 

505
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,640
sort of pervasive, I don't want 
to use the word anxiety again. 

506
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,960
The pervasive fear that, that, 
you know, with all the resources

507
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,560
that we, I guess, at least in 
this part of the world where we 

508
00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:59,800
have the resources and we have 
the connection of the Internet 

509
00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:02,640
or feeling like is, is, you 
know, we have more information 

510
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,240
than ever. 
It's starting to mean less and 

511
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,040
less the more we get. 
Information is starting to get 

512
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,840
put through a blender and and 
fed back to us in a way where 

513
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,080
the human race is now starting 
to role play as itself. 

514
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,520
It almost starts to seem a 
little bit with. 

515
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,760
Trump in the Matrix. 
A little bit, but, but I think 

516
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,040
that like gradually, and this is
not like new and I'm not saying 

517
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,040
anything like profound about 
this 'cause I think, I think 

518
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,600
we've known this for a while, 
but we've been like trending for

519
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,360
a few centuries into like a, a 
spiral of industrialism that's 

520
00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:33,040
causing. 
And it's not like malice. 

521
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:34,680
It's not like malicious by any 
means. 

522
00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:37,720
I mean, like, yes, there are 
individual people that you could

523
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,760
name and say they are malicious 
and that's easy to do, But but 

524
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,680
it's, it's the fact that it's a 
natural phenomenon that arises 

525
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,640
in like every culture and it's a
systemic thing that is almost 

526
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,680
impossible to root out of our 
species. 

527
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,720
And so there's these, you know, 
obviously patterns beyond us 

528
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,560
that I I try to engage with in a
sympathetic way. 

529
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,880
And, and I think that like the 
backrooms is reacting to the 

530
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,480
fear of like, OK, we're we're 
kind of getting stuck in this, 

531
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,840
this monoculture. 
Literally even like in an 

532
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,560
architectural context where you 
are everywhere you go, like a 

533
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,680
drop ceiling is maybe not the 
most prevalent. 

534
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,000
It's not like everywhere in the 
world, but like at least in this

535
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,760
part of the world, like drop 
ceilings are kind of a symbol 

536
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:22,280
of, of uniformity or, or, or 
yeah, I guess efficiency. 

537
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,320
I mean, they're pretty, pretty 
effective at what they do. 

538
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:26,920
They're not bad. 
I'm not criticizing the drop 

539
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,800
ceiling, but but it's. 
Functionality to them, but 

540
00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:31,840
they're not the most interesting
of forms. 

541
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,040
It's the idea of spending all of
existence in that place, in that

542
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,040
non space basically of like that
that industrial environment 

543
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,320
that's. 
It is purgatory to some degree. 

544
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,640
It is, it is. 
It's a purgatory that we built. 

545
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,360
It's not like a like a purgatory
beyond humanity. 

546
00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:49,760
It's like one that we're clearly
pushing ourselves towards. 

547
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,360
But. 
We're building prisons for 

548
00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:52,880
ourselves. 
That's essentially what it is. 

549
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,160
We're building prisons for 
ourselves, if you will. 

550
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,960
Yeah, it's, again, it's like 
getting us further and further 

551
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:02,920
from what the human nervous 
system evolved to basically 

552
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,600
thrive on. 
And, and we're kind of getting 

553
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,000
past a place where like, you 
know, we evolved into our 

554
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,600
environments and then we changed
the environments and now we're, 

555
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,960
I wouldn't be surprised if 
that's doing, doing something 

556
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:19,240
to, to a lot of the subconscious
and just the general, you know, 

557
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,720
energy and health of, of, of 
people I know. 

558
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,040
Sue, can I ask you then, so a 
lot of these themes that you 

559
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,960
have in your head, did you feel 
like the backrooms, you know, 

560
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,920
like the that was a great like a
good platform for you to explore

561
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,280
other ideas that you have. 
So like what led to like 

562
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,840
subsequent, you know, like other
shorts that came along, you 

563
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,720
know, in the backroom as well? 
Did you just start started 

564
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,520
going? 
I want to explore, you know, 

565
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,800
like other elements within this 
world and then that basically 

566
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,440
what let you down like the 
series of them. 

567
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:52,240
Yeah, I I wanted to, I mean, 
largely expressed what I was 

568
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,720
just talking about a little bit.
It was like a lot of it for me 

569
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,320
is just exploring these ideas 
myself. 

570
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,440
And I want a way to check myself
and test myself. 

571
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,080
And if I can find a way to wrap 
up these, you know, academic 

572
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,000
ideas in a creative package, 
then I can get creatively 

573
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:06,760
excited about it. 
And it's like medicine with the 

574
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,800
sugar sort of where I'm like 
internalizing these things and 

575
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,480
testing myself on these things 
and not not in like a true, 

576
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,080
there's no compare. 
Like this is not comparable at 

577
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:16,960
all to like a an actual school 
experience. 

578
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,920
It's not what the what I'm 
trying to say with that. 

579
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:24,080
But for me, just as someone who 
enjoys learning and enjoys just 

580
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,960
knowing more about literally 
anything, I mean, it's kind of 

581
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,040
what the film's about in some 
ways is like, you know, that 

582
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,120
part of the brand that that 
forces human beings into a state

583
00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:35,320
of curiosity. 
So did you find when you started

584
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,640
making, you know, the series of 
of, of of these shorts that that

585
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,440
there were many people out there
that shared the same interest as

586
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,920
you like, you know, the people 
were fascinated about what you 

587
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,880
were doing and that wanted to 
see more of it. 

588
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:49,800
Is that what kind of like kind 
of force you down that path or 

589
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,280
not force but you know, made you
want to, you know, go down and 

590
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,440
continue? 
I was very aware that those 

591
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,880
people existed and it was kind 
of the audience that I was. 

592
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,240
The audience that I speak to is 
the audience that I'm also a 

593
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,480
part of, which I think is maybe 
why I've had a decent rhythm 

594
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,240
with them for as long as I have,
which is like, you know, I grew 

595
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:12,080
up watching like, like web 
series and energies and like 

596
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,560
consuming that stuff. 
And, and not necessarily when I 

597
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,440
say watching, it's, I guess I 
mean, just following because 

598
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:18,880
sometimes it's not even 
something to watch. 

599
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,240
Sometimes it's you're visiting a
web page and you're looking at 

600
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,040
the metadata of files shared on 
that page and you get story 

601
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,880
information from that. 
Or you're, you know, like a lot 

602
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,400
of the time you're actually 
paying attention to a YouTube 

603
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,520
who's talking about and 
summarizing a series. 

604
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,160
Because sometimes these series 
get so dense and complex and 

605
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,000
hard to follow that the real 
story, like a more entertaining 

606
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:45,200
story is, is in the recap of it.
So I kind of like engineered my 

607
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,080
stuff to work on a recap level, 
I think. 

608
00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:50,760
And a lot of the stuff on 
YouTube has been exactly that. 

609
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,640
And I've, I was amazed, like, 
like I was kind of losing my 

610
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,720
mind when, when the shorts first
caught on because it was like 

611
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,840
all the people I looked up to 
online were like suddenly 

612
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,000
talking about it. 
And for obvious, for obvious 

613
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,480
reasons, that would be exciting,
I think for, for anyone in that 

614
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:04,440
position. 
But it was like. 

615
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:06,960
Can you mention who were some of
these people? 

616
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,440
It's. 
Just like YouTube channels like 

617
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,040
like Brandon people, Nexpo night
mind. 

618
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,320
I think this is like forget like
a full list of the time but it 

619
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,800
was like. 
That's so cool, right? 

620
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:20,800
It was, you know, like it must 
have been validated. 

621
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,440
It was cool. 
It felt like, it felt like it 

622
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,320
was very weird. 
It was, it was bizarre. 

623
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,160
It was bizarre. 
It was validating but also like.

624
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:28,680
Is this? 
Really it yeah. 

625
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,480
But I guess it was just like 
seeing like getting it through 

626
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:36,000
my teenage head that like the, 
the world that I watch on a 

627
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,680
screen. 
And I know this is so obvious 

628
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,120
and I, I knew it, but I didn't 
feel it was like I, I guess like

629
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,520
when I was younger, like so many
of the things that I looked up 

630
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:48,240
to artistically, sort of like 
above in some way, like there's 

631
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,600
some inaccessible barrier there 
where it's like you could never 

632
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,200
meet these people. 
You could never, never, never, 

633
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,840
never interact with this brand 
or this fictional world in any. 

634
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:01,680
Meaningful way. 
It's like it's in a different 

635
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,320
world. 
You can do fan art, but like you

636
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:04,920
don't get up there and it's like
so. 

637
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,040
Here with with this, you 
actually have the opportunity to

638
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:09,720
breakthrough and that's kind of 
what you did, right? 

639
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,400
And it happened in a very casual
way with no fanfare. 

640
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,240
I mean, it was exciting, but 
it's like, it's very simple. 

641
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:15,520
And I was like, oh, this is what
it is. 

642
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:16,440
This is how it feels. 
That's. 

643
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,400
Usually how this works, you know
when you always expect it, 

644
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,240
that's when it you know good 
stuff happens, right? 

645
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,760
You just do what you do, be 
passionate about what you want 

646
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,680
to do. 
And, and like I've always said, 

647
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,760
you know, like I, I say that to,
to sort of young film makers 

648
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:30,880
like yourself and you know, 
anyone out there who ask me for 

649
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:32,920
advice, I just say just make 
your movies. 

650
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:34,200
Just do it. 
And you know, if you do 

651
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,160
something great, people will 
discover it, especially with 

652
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,920
technology that we have today, 
right, like YouTube, I mean, 

653
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,200
like there's so many platforms 
out there that you can just put 

654
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:43,840
it out there. 
Go shoot something for no money.

655
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,840
You don't need money. 
You just you can shoot anything 

656
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:47,080
with your phone these days, 
right? 

657
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,400
You don't need a special camera.
It's like like I had to have 

658
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,560
when I was growing up making 
these little shorts. 

659
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,040
So just go make something and 
put it out. 

660
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,360
They can be anything and you're 
bound to find fans and that that

661
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,000
fandom could be, it doesn't 
matter how small they are, how 

662
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,880
big they are. 
It helps to flame the creativity

663
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,960
in you and it makes you want to 
do more. 

664
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,920
And so and I think that's kind 
of basically what happened for 

665
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,120
you, right? 
I mean, I've been I, I continued

666
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,120
doing, I did a few different 
series on YouTube and I've been 

667
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,000
doing all the way up until 
things became hot enough on this

668
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,320
film that we were good to go and
I was able to jump over to. 

669
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,200
Can I ask you how many shorts 
did you make of the Backroom 

670
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,080
series? 
I don't know the number, it's 

671
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,520
like 3 hours or so currently of 
it. 

672
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:31,400
So it's enough of it's like it's
like a bit where it's like async

673
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,600
has an ARC and then there's a 
few like there's like 3 videos 

674
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,280
that aren't from that 
perspective but are kind of like

675
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,880
the first short where so. 
Then OK, I I need to ask this, 

676
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,880
at what point during any of this
process did you eventually say 

677
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,520
to yourself or thought to 
yourself that, hey, one day I 

678
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,720
could potentially turn this into
a feature film? 

679
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,680
Well, I mean, it was I, I, I, I,
I put out those shorts in 

680
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,240
January of 2022 or I started 
doing it. 

681
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:55,960
The first short went out in in 
January 7th. 

682
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,920
It was like less than a month 
later that I started getting my 

683
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,880
first emails from anyone in the 
industry. 

684
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,800
I had no interaction with anyone
in the industry ever like prior 

685
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,160
to that point. 
So I was definitely, I was 

686
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:12,200
caught off guard. 
I was very cautious and paranoid

687
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,840
because I was like, I've grown 
up seeing just like so many 

688
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,040
beloved IP just get torn to 
shreds by, you know, random 

689
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,000
suits in the industry who grab 
an IP, take it, pulverize it by 

690
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:23,560
giving it to some writer who 
knows nothing about the 

691
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,560
property. 
And then when it's dead and, and

692
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,480
everyone hates the movie and it 
was, you know, not maybe a 

693
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,400
worthwhile adventure, but but I 
so I was like cautious of that. 

694
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,800
I had that in my head and it was
like assuming OK, if I don't 

695
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,920
find something really helpful, 
that's what it's going to be. 

696
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:39,960
So I met with a lot of people 
and it was like it turned into 

697
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,520
like no meetings ever. 
And then suddenly in February I 

698
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,920
think every single day, every 
weekday had like 3 meetings like

699
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,000
generals with. 
So it really happened that 

700
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,400
quickly. 
Almost instantly it was like a 

701
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,920
binary, like it switched on. 
So that's incredible. 

702
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,800
And, and I Atomic Monster was 
one of the first or it was like 

703
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,720
within the first. 
I think it's like the second 

704
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,840
week of that probably right. 
And then I met with 21 laps as 

705
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:03,560
well. 
And, and I, I did like, I, I 

706
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,000
remember being conflicted and I 
forget the exact order of 

707
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,960
things, but, but then, but then 
there was you guys came together

708
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,760
and together, yeah. 
And then I talked to all you 

709
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,280
guys together and that was sort 
of like you guys solved the 

710
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,520
conundrum I was having 'cause I 
liked, I liked Atomic and I'm 

711
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,320
21. 
And then boom, they decided they

712
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:18,200
want to do the thing together. 
So. 

713
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,280
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
No, I mean, listen, we you know,

714
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,120
credit to you because, you know,
we saw the potential in it and 

715
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,320
and we felt like, you know, we 
wanted to work with you. 

716
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,360
We're like, you know, we we we 
saw, you know, like the kind of 

717
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,160
brain that you have, the kind of
creativity that you have. 

718
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,880
And we definitely saw the 
potential that you have to kind 

719
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,440
of take this project and make it
something bigger, right? 

720
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,000
Like, you know, kind of break it
into the future war and and 

721
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:40,320
yeah. 
And so, you know, between, you 

722
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,240
know, us at Atomic Monster and 
21 last, we're like, let's 

723
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,240
collaborate, let's collaborate 
and the more the merrier. 

724
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:47,200
Thanks for doing that. 
What? 

725
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,960
Can do with this, yeah. 
So, so I'm glad to hear from 

726
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:51,840
your perspective how that. 
Came together. 

727
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,000
I mean, like, basically like I 
was thinking under the terms of 

728
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,720
just like there are unknown 
unknowns everywhere. 

729
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,040
So I'm just going to make sure I
don't do anything without like 

730
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,680
quadruple checking. 
And, and so I was very thorough 

731
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,200
about like, you know, beginning 
a process with you guys. 

732
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,760
And it was, I mean, it was just 
very, I felt it was very 

733
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,760
positive and I felt like it was 
what I was looking for and 

734
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,000
that's cool. 
What I was looking for and, and 

735
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,440
was, was really like backrooms 
on YouTube is very creatively 

736
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,280
fulfilling for me. 
And I will do it. 

737
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:18,960
I can, I will do more in the 
future. 

738
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,440
And I I'm not like leaving 
YouTube by any means, but I 

739
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,320
that's great. 
But, but, but it is limited. 

740
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,960
Like it came about because I 
think it's like what you were 

741
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,720
saying a moment ago with, you 
know, the accessibility of 

742
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,280
YouTube and film making and 
whatnot. 

743
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,840
Is that like I, I like I found 
when maybe what I would advise, 

744
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,120
although I'm not, I don't feel 
like I'm quite a place to give 

745
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:39,760
advice yet. 
I maybe should let this film 

746
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,240
come out and then like wait a 
year or two before I start 

747
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,280
saying anything. 
No man, you can't always give 

748
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,840
advice. 
I I, I feel like in the short 

749
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:49,440
period of time you've 
experienced a lot. 

750
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:51,560
Yeah, right. 
It's it's been I can you can 

751
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,560
speak to your I can give. 
Anecdotes and I can give. 

752
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,120
Exactly. 
And then people can kind of 

753
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,280
like, you know, latch onto 
whatever it's. 

754
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,000
Because almost the first thing I
would say is like the thing I've

755
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,760
learned the most is like what 
worked for one person. 

756
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,440
Like don't expect it to work for
you in a way, unless it's like a

757
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,440
universal truth or something 
like it's, it's kind of like it 

758
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,360
feels like the most simple thing
you do have to follow is, is I 

759
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,760
think what I managed to do, 
whether or not I realized it 

760
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,199
with the backroom stuff and with
what I was doing on YouTube is 

761
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:19,120
like I found a rough thing that 
I could achieve. 

762
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:23,080
It's like, what can I do with 
free software on a laptop in 

763
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,280
blender and a bit of after 
effects touch up. 

764
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,800
Like what can I do there with no
extra anything, no live action 

765
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,360
shooting, no actors, no like 
what just me behind a 

766
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,120
microphone. 
Like what can I do there? 

767
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,080
And then what's the if I just 
keep working on that, refining 

768
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,239
that until it becomes like the 
best version of itself. 

769
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,960
It becomes like a unique product
that I just had cut that I just 

770
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:43,719
said product. 
Oh my God. 

771
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:46,239
Dude, this is. 
What happens when I go to LA? 

772
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,840
Yeah, I absorb. 
The language hell it starts, my 

773
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,080
friend, I know. 
I know This is why this. 

774
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:52,719
Business for one movie. 
And now? 

775
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:54,440
No, I'm kidding. 
Yeah, This is why I'm going to 

776
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,400
to the woods after I'd say it. 
Listen. 

777
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:58,120
Like this. 
But this is all great stuff. 

778
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,400
Because I had to take it to the 
market and we had to make this 

779
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,120
movie. 
So objectively, it is a product.

780
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:03,080
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
I mean. 

781
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:04,280
It's an item. 
It's an item. 

782
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,640
So much money involved, you 
know, like, listen, as artistic 

783
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,880
as we want to be, as much of 
like Otis as we want to be, we 

784
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:13,960
have to think about, you know, 
like the studios that are 

785
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,960
financing our movies, the 
investors that are financing our

786
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:17,320
movies. 
And we do kind of have to 

787
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,680
treated, you know, to some 
degree with that respect. 

788
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,960
And the key here is, you know, 
for someone like myself who's 

789
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,680
been in been doing this for a 
while now is like, how do you 

790
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:31,320
somewhat appease what the 
investors are looking for, but 

791
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,640
yet making it your own? 
So every movie that you make 

792
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,440
should be personal to you. 
You know, like it doesn't matter

793
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,640
how commercial it is, you know, 
like the, the big film makers 

794
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,920
that I truly respect or, or film
makers, small film makers as 

795
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:44,880
well. 
But from the likes of your 

796
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,000
Steven Spielberg to Tim Burton 
to whomever right they, they're 

797
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,880
able to play in that commercial 
world, but yet every movie is 

798
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,840
super, super personal to them. 
And that is how I approach with 

799
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,120
all my movies. 
And I think that's who you are 

800
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,440
as well. 
I, I feel like whatever movies 

801
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:05,320
you make here onwards, 
everything would be highly 

802
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,680
important for you. 
Every film you make will speak 

803
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:10,760
to you on some level that you 
want to talk about. 

804
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:12,320
You know that that's good to 
have. 

805
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:13,720
So you know, you're just going 
to be mindful. 

806
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,560
You, you know, as as a director 
now making these kind of movies,

807
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,600
you kind of have to wear 2 hats,
right? 

808
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,120
Yeah, what I feel is like, 
again, I'm going back to like 

809
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,800
because I do get full creative 
satisfaction of doing stuff on 

810
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,040
YouTube that is equal to what I 
do here. 

811
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:30,880
There's almost no difference. 
It's just a, it's a bit of a 

812
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,160
different process and I 
socialize a lot more when 

813
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:34,960
working like like I just did on 
Backrooms. 

814
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,840
But, but I like in terms of 
fulfillment, it's it's identical

815
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,720
and I, I do make a living off of
YouTube like it's, you know, 

816
00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:44,600
it's, it's I don't need much. 
I have a desk and I have a 

817
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,280
laptop that's amazing. 
I stand in an empty room at my 

818
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,480
desk. 
There's something I want to ask 

819
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:51,800
before we get further down here,
OK 'cause like, this is so great

820
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,200
to kind of hear talk about, you 
know, the history and how you 

821
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:55,640
started all this. 
You know, obviously you started 

822
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:57,360
very young doing all this stuff,
right? 

823
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:02,520
Your parents, what do they think
about all of this? 

824
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:04,640
You know, when you were just 
starting out and then eventually

825
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,600
now you know, you're making your
first feature film in Hollywood.

826
00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:10,120
How do they feel? 
They must be super proud. 

827
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,000
And they, they must feel, you 
know, like I, I don't know, it 

828
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,760
must be surreal for them as well
to see, you know, the trajectory

829
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,360
in the journey that their son 
have taken. 

830
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,960
Yeah, I, I, I don't want to 
speak for them, but I, but I 

831
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:24,400
would, they are proud and and 
they're, I mean, my parents are 

832
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,080
both really great people and 
have obviously like. 

833
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:28,680
They've been very. 
Supportive, They've been so 

834
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,840
supportive at like every point 
in my life and have always like,

835
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,840
you know, helped this come about
in a way, like by just by not 

836
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,240
doing it, like just by not being
in the way. 

837
00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:40,200
I think it's like being you can 
be two hands on and you can be 

838
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,280
two hands off. 
And I think they were just like,

839
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:43,680
they found the right balance. 
They found the right balance. 

840
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,480
Yeah. 
And you know, like I, they, they

841
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,760
get what's going on and they, 
you know, like they're not in 

842
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,360
the industry, so it's not like 
they get it, get it. 

843
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,120
But but what do you live? 
What do they live? 

844
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,920
Where do you live? 
Me and all of them, we live in 

845
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:00,680
Northern California, like Sonoma
County like. 

846
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:02,320
Oh, OK. 
That's where you're from. 

847
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:07,280
OK. 
Yeah, like Sonoma Marin and I, 

848
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,360
you know, like, like they get 
it. 

849
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,160
And like, I talk to them like 
once a week or so. 

850
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,640
Like I'll, I'll call them 
individually and, and talk to my

851
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:16,400
parents and try to talk to my 
younger brother. 

852
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,280
And it's been hard on this film 
just because of how busy it's 

853
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,160
been to like, stay in contact 
with everyone in my life. 

854
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,680
When you're making a movie, 
you're pretty much isolated from

855
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:27,280
the rest of the world. 
Yeah, whatever happens. 

856
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,600
I don't mind. 
I like I usually am this way 

857
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,400
like so it's fine. 
But it's for people like us. 

858
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,000
It's actually not a bad thing. 
No it. 

859
00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:36,360
It works quite well. 
It's been like 10% more than 

860
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,640
than I'm maybe used to though. 
So it's been, it's been a 

861
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,320
little, a little more on the 
intense side. 

862
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,080
But like, again, I'm, I'm here 
for that. 

863
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:46,480
But yeah, they, they, I try to, 
you know, loop them in and 

864
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,120
they're going to be coming to 
the premiere when we do that 

865
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:49,880
next week. 
And it's going to be, you know, 

866
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,440
a whole lot of fun upfront. 
And you know, they've, they've, 

867
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,680
you know, they're, they're 
familiar with the film. 

868
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,400
Like I, they got to, they were, 
I was showing them everything we

869
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,080
were doing as we were building 
up to this. 

870
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,200
And, and so, you know, they and 
my dad's always like on YouTube 

871
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:04,960
looking at like reaction videos 
to my stuff. 

872
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,160
And he's constantly, constantly 
like he knows everything about. 

873
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:09,240
It that's what they should be 
doing as. 

874
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:10,560
Parents. 
Yeah, yeah. 

875
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:15,680
So, OK, let I want to talk about
your feature film experience, 

876
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:17,040
right. 
So you've transitioned from 

877
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:21,960
these shorts into, you know, the
process into making a feature 

878
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,440
film through this pretty big 
infrastructure, right? 

879
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,000
You know, of making this feature
with, you know, a proper film 

880
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:30,400
crew. 
Up until now, you've pretty much

881
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,520
done everything yourself, right?
And, and your actors are your 

882
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,000
friends. 
But now you're moving into the 

883
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,520
Super big world and into the big
league, so to speak. 

884
00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:42,360
And, and you're working with 
professional crew, professional 

885
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:46,600
cast actors, you know, what was 
that like? 

886
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,760
What was it like for you at the 
very start of that initial 

887
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,600
process? 
Was it overwhelming or did you 

888
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,280
fully embrace it, or was it a 
little bit of everything? 

889
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,160
So unlike some things that I've 
mentioned in our conversation, 

890
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,400
like that wasn't abrupt, like 
there was a, a very gentle lead 

891
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,240
in to that that made sense over 
over a good period. 

892
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,640
And so, you know, I, I went up 
to Vancouver to do a test shoot 

893
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:10,440
in April. 
So that would have just happened

894
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,560
over a year ago. 
And that was my first time 

895
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,800
working with, you know, a crew 
that is not like, my personal 

896
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:18,400
friends from like, high school 
or something. 

897
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:23,080
And so that, that I think I had 
questions in my head, but I 

898
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,720
think it was like easy enough 
because it was a, it was a 

899
00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:27,240
skeleton crew. 
It was pretty small and we were 

900
00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:29,480
doing like a very minimal lean 
test shoot. 

901
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,440
And I think there was something 
I found which was like, you 

902
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,360
know, I had it in my head 
wondering, you know, all these 

903
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,520
notions of what a director has 
to be and what I have to be 

904
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,360
facilitating. 
What do I, what do I not know? 

905
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,280
I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm assuming 
there's a million things I do 

906
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:44,720
not know. 
And I'm thinking of all the ways

907
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:46,400
that could poison the process. 
But what? 

908
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,640
But what if? 
You don't know could be a good 

909
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,560
thing, right? 
Or Or you don't know what you 

910
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,840
don't know. 
Yeah, but but exactly like, I 

911
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,640
don't know what I don't know. 
So like I'm, I'm like, you know,

912
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:56,520
doing what I can't. 
But I'm like, I'm realizing like

913
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,800
as I'm getting there and we're 
starting and it's like like, 

914
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,920
wait, that's all, that's all you
can, that's all anyone can do. 

915
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,720
That's like literally what I'm 
just, I go here, I know what I 

916
00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:05,520
want. 
I don't know why I'm 

917
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,440
overthinking that part. 
I just need to tell the people 

918
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,000
around me what I want in a 
concise manner and explain why 

919
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,120
we want it so they can also be 
personally motivated to achieve 

920
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,000
that thing. 
And then we're just doing that 

921
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,720
in a few different ways. 
And then we, the day's done and 

922
00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:21,200
we got what we wanted and boom. 
And then we do it again. 

923
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,000
And like, I, I guess I just, I, 
I think I did overthink it 

924
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:25,600
upfront. 
And again, those were, that was 

925
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:27,400
just the test shoot. 
So it was a bit of AI guess I'll

926
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:28,560
jump to when we were going to 
day one. 

927
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:30,360
It was the same kind of thoughts
coming back again. 

928
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,120
It was like, OK, that was small 
before. 

929
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,520
Like what if, what if it's going
to be so many people now that I 

930
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,080
haven't met like during pre 
production, I got to work with 

931
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,640
all these department heads. 
And, and you're saying like how 

932
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,840
working with my, all the actors 
of my friends before, like I 

933
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:44,880
would say everyone that I worked
with at that point, by the time 

934
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:46,560
I went to camera were my friends
now. 

935
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,120
And, and, and like, right, 
that's great. 

936
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,520
It's cool. 
The the cast and, and crew and, 

937
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,440
and, and everyone is like, it 
was a very friendly vibe. 

938
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:54,680
Across the board. 
Good. 

939
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:55,920
Yeah. 
So it was a collaborative 

940
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:57,200
experience for you. 
So, yeah. 

941
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,120
So you felt like you know what 
you were asking for. 

942
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,320
People kind of step up and kind 
of help to deliver the vision of

943
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,320
what you were. 
Yeah, like so, so we went to 

944
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,560
when, when I went up to 
Vancouver and we got greenlit a 

945
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,400
few days into, we had like a few
days of prep and then we needed 

946
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:12,800
to get greenlit before we could 
continue. 

947
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,680
And but when that was happening,
you know, I was, I was meeting 

948
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,000
all the heads of all the 
departments and, and we, we had 

949
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,560
kind of met before a little bit.
They all know each other and 

950
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,160
they're all friends. 
And it's like part of like, you 

951
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,800
know, a great group that that 
sort of Chris, the producer up 

952
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,800
in Vancouver where I work 
closely with and has sort of 

953
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:34,280
like really helped bring 
together over a good period of 

954
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:35,400
time. 
And, and so they're all very 

955
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,280
tight in it and it's pretty 
great up there. 

956
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,560
But I. 
So so just to clarify, you found

957
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:45,960
the pre production process of 
planning the movie and and kind 

958
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,680
of like laying laying it out and
talking to the crew and you 

959
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,600
know, talking to producers and 
locations and sets and stuff 

960
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,440
like that. 
You found all that pretty 

961
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,520
smoothly. 
The the actual process it. 

962
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:01,080
Was it was smoothly, I mean, it 
wasn't easy, but it was, it was 

963
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:02,920
smoothly and easy. 
We were getting making films. 

964
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,880
Yeah, it was time consuming and 
like used all my brain power 

965
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,080
each day, but was like we got 
through it did. 

966
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:14,440
You find that at any time that 
the the sort of the bigger 

967
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:20,640
machination of, of film making 
that kind of kind of like went 

968
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:22,600
against how you used to do 
things. 

969
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:24,120
No, no. 
OK, good. 

970
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,160
No. 
It felt like it identical 

971
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,000
scaling of of what I normally 
do. 

972
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:31,120
That's great. 
Like the sets, when I get there,

973
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:35,600
I mean, I brought my computer 
with me, my laptop and, and like

974
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:37,960
all the sets that we built like 
because our production office 

975
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,640
was on the sound stage or like 
right outside of it. 

976
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,520
And, and so we would like, we 
had these four big stages that 

977
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:48,760
we could build on and we were 
working out like, you know, like

978
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:50,360
our construction budget at the 
time and everything. 

979
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:54,120
And I and the scripture, like we
were iterating on the script as 

980
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:55,200
we were going through prep and 
stuff. 

981
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,480
So some things were changing and
so everything was changing a 

982
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:58,960
little bit. 
And it's too hard to describe 

983
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:00,560
the exact order in which things 
changed. 

984
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,320
Like one change would 
retroactively affect the thing 

985
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:04,680
that changed that change and 
what not. 

986
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:08,640
But but like the sets are all 
like I made them all in blender,

987
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:12,080
like I designed all the sets and
and it's pretty much one for one

988
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,240
for what we have in the movie. 
Like those all exist in the the 

989
00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:17,120
blender files. 
And I, you know, like I would 

990
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,040
cross reference and talk with 
Jeremy Cox, the DPI worked with 

991
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,320
who's great. 
And you know, like I would kind 

992
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,640
of like I was showing him how to
use a bit of Blender so we could

993
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:26,960
like send files back and forth 
if he wanted to tweak a few 

994
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:31,520
things to, you know, on the day,
build the sets to accommodate 

995
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,320
for shots that we wanted 'cause 
we were shot listing in Blender 

996
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:37,080
as well. 
So basically you were doing that

997
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:38,240
like previous, right? 
Yeah. 

998
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,960
It was previous on everything. 
Yeah, yeah, that's fantastic. 

999
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:42,520
So you can you pretty much 
previous the whole movie. 

1000
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,480
That's what I mean when I say 
like, I, I, I need like the 

1001
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,800
variable control up front. 
So I know I I like knowing every

1002
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,400
single bit of what we're going 
to do and let everything be 

1003
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,680
deliberate. 
Your process and your, the way 

1004
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,680
your mind works, you know where 
you need to be in control. 

1005
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:58,640
You need to kind of like be 
prepared. 

1006
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,120
Really helps with, as you can 
see the film making process, 

1007
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:04,800
right? 
Like there's nothing worse for a

1008
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,480
director on a film set or 
there's nothing worse for a film

1009
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,360
crew in a production is a 
director that is not prepared. 

1010
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,560
Yeah, yeah, it's horrible. 
It's horrible. 

1011
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,080
If they don't know what they 
want, they don't know how to 

1012
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:19,560
achieve it, that's really 
draining on a production. 

1013
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,680
And so Someone Like You, it's a 
it's a it's a breath of fresh 

1014
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,720
air to come in so prepared, 
knowing exactly the world, what 

1015
00:45:25,720 --> 00:45:28,320
they want, what they want the 
characters to be, what they 

1016
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,480
want, the shot, the scenes to 
feel like. 

1017
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,800
That goes a long way. 
And I think, you know, I think 

1018
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,600
that helps with why the 
transition for you was kind of 

1019
00:45:37,720 --> 00:45:41,520
pretty, pretty smooth going. 
Yeah, I, I would also learn just

1020
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,040
like, you know, sing the praises
of all, all the people we worked

1021
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,080
with because like everyone in 
all of the departments sort of 

1022
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:50,080
like genuinely like incredibly 
nice, really productive and 

1023
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,920
really focused people that that 
obviously would like give them 

1024
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,360
infinite credit on this. 
Like like really the sets, like 

1025
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:58,840
I, I've made them in Blender, 
but like, you know, even the 

1026
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,520
construction crew who like they 
were like tirelessly going at 

1027
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:03,360
this thing. 
It's like 30,000 square feet of 

1028
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:04,680
of backgrounds we built it's. 
Incredible. 

1029
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,240
The set looks amazing. 
Yeah, they look and but again, 

1030
00:46:07,240 --> 00:46:10,680
you know, the the crew really 
wants to, you know, help you 

1031
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:12,160
bring your vision to life, 
right. 

1032
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,800
And so like we trusted you 
because, you know, this movie 

1033
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,920
is, you know, it is an alter 
driven film. 

1034
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,720
And so like, so it's kind of 
great that that everyone trusted

1035
00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:25,640
you and and wants to help you 
bring all that, you know, to 

1036
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,200
fruition. 
Yeah, and, and it looks amazing.

1037
00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:31,160
Very generous of you. 
Guys, you know, hey, man, No, 

1038
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:33,000
seriously. 
Yeah, we, we, you know, we take 

1039
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:34,360
our lead from someone like 
yourself. 

1040
00:46:34,720 --> 00:46:37,800
And I want to talk about what 
was it like, you know, 

1041
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,920
collaborating with with Oz 
Osgood. 

1042
00:46:41,240 --> 00:46:41,880
He's great. 
Yeah. 

1043
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,360
How was he like on? 
This, yeah. 

1044
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:48,600
So it was before, it was after 
the test shoot, it was before we

1045
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,200
went to get green light, like 
before we went up to Vancouver 

1046
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:53,400
for the long stay, for the long 
haul. 

1047
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:58,880
And I met because Chris works 
closely with Oz and Oz is like 

1048
00:46:59,240 --> 00:47:00,520
basically at every step of the 
way. 

1049
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:01,840
I. 
Mean Oz is a producer, just to 

1050
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:03,960
explain, he's a producer. 
Oz good Perkins. 

1051
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,280
He's a producer. 
He's a director in his own right

1052
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,400
as well, but he's a producer 
here on on the film with us. 

1053
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,200
Yeah, He was writing his next 
film while, like, we were in 

1054
00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:13,760
prep on this. 
And so he'd be like just 

1055
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,560
hovering around the entire time,
just like hanging out and. 

1056
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,000
Like a Big Brother. 
Yeah, to some degree, right? 

1057
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:23,440
I mean, yeah. 
And he's, he's great And, and we

1058
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:25,560
would like, I know, like when I,
when I first got there, he's 

1059
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,840
like, we would just like every 
Friday we'd just go to a Little 

1060
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,440
Theatre and like watch a, a 
movie that would like help for 

1061
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:33,560
the film. 
It's like, I remember that when 

1062
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:36,240
we first got there, we just like
went and rented out a theatre 

1063
00:47:36,240 --> 00:47:39,440
and just like watched 2001 on 
the, on the, which was like a 

1064
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:44,040
lot of fun. 
But then we, we basically like, 

1065
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,760
like he, he was very helpful. 
I think in because there's a 

1066
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:51,240
certain level of, of change and 
iteration that went on with, you

1067
00:47:51,240 --> 00:47:54,680
know, the, the script and, and 
getting it right for the project

1068
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,560
that I've, you know, I've put it
online over the years and people

1069
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,040
are so specific about like I, I 
think maybe that's not always 

1070
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,160
taking into account. 
Actually, I know it's not taking

1071
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,080
into account because it's been 
something I've had to sort of 

1072
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,680
fight for a little bit along the
way in, in like a healthy 

1073
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:08,280
manner. 
It's like reasonable why it 

1074
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,280
wouldn't be considered because 
it's, it's, it's a bit insane 

1075
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:15,040
when I say it out loud, but 
like, because it, it's a very 

1076
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,040
like, it's not just a fan base 
thing. 

1077
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,160
It's not my fan base. 
It's not a group of people. 

1078
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,080
It's kind of a prevalent mindset
that has come from, I think my 

1079
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:26,200
generation who has grown up with
the Internet, a lot of the same 

1080
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:29,280
Youtubers and a lot of the same 
mentalities around media 

1081
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,400
deconstruction. 
And it's there's been this 

1082
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:35,640
notion that when it comes to 
like Internet driven horror, 

1083
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:37,240
especially horror is the main 
target for this. 

1084
00:48:37,240 --> 00:48:40,720
But anything that is mysterious 
or horror driven and comes from 

1085
00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:43,000
the Internet is like, OK, so 
that means it's got to be 

1086
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,000
riddled with Easter eggs. 
And those Easter eggs are in 

1087
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,360
crucial to the plot. 
And like the plot, the true 

1088
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:50,200
story is lying under the 
surface. 

1089
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,120
There's like a there's a meta 
level to this thing. 

1090
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:55,720
There's like you can zoom in all
these things. 

1091
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,840
There's like the expectation is 
there's a lot of rich, really 

1092
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:02,560
specific information and, and, 
and you know, I knew that 

1093
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:04,760
because I'm a part of that group
of people who think that. 

1094
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,720
And, and I'm used to projects 
that give me that level of like 

1095
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,040
engagement and depth and, and 
like growing up with that. 

1096
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,560
So, so when I'm making the 
backroom's web series, I'm 

1097
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,720
designing it as such. 
And, and when you know, a, a 

1098
00:49:16,720 --> 00:49:19,400
object or like a light switch or
a pillar or something moves over

1099
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,280
a few feet to the right, it's 
not because, oh, we, we had to 

1100
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:24,960
move it there because of like 
some logistical thing or like we

1101
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:26,520
had to rebuild the set and there
was a pillar there. 

1102
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:28,080
So we had to account for like a 
slight shift. 

1103
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:31,080
It's like, no, it, it has to be 
because of the narrative reason,

1104
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:32,480
because the building shifted in 
some way. 

1105
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:35,280
And that means something that'll
get addressed later on. 

1106
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:37,280
So people can kind of catch 
things like that. 

1107
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,880
I made the, it's not a mistake. 
I love it to death, but it's 

1108
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:46,520
like I made the deliberate 
decision to let audiences know 

1109
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:50,080
that those little things aren't 
random and that they can expect 

1110
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,480
anything they catch. 
Like it puts them on guard that 

1111
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:54,440
like there could be a lot of 
things they don't know are 

1112
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,640
important until later. 
And so sometimes you need 

1113
00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:59,360
multiple viewings to catch 
little. 

1114
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,840
Yeah, like Easter eggs here. 
The stuff I make on YouTube is 

1115
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:03,280
built to be. 
And I would say even the movie, 

1116
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:04,840
it's built to be paused and 
analyzed. 

1117
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:07,400
It's not meant to. 
It's it. 

1118
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:11,040
It's inherently made for that. 
That is nuts. 

1119
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:13,680
And I think that, you know, 
trying to bring that to this 

1120
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:18,560
level involves asking for a lot 
of things that seem unproductive

1121
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,120
to people who. 
Aren't trivial or weird even 

1122
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:22,440
right? 
Yeah, it's like, why? 

1123
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:24,520
Is he doing that? 
You know, like, and we didn't 

1124
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,040
win every battle because it's 
impossible because we don't have

1125
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:30,920
the resources to paint out every
tiny cable and conduit that 

1126
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,120
aren't exactly from 1990. 
And like the fire sprinkler 

1127
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,640
models aren't exactly the model 
that would have been used in 

1128
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:38,080
this type of piping in this 
year. 

1129
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,800
And stuff like, and I know it's 
this is what I mean is like, 

1130
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,560
come on, guys. 
Like give give the film some 

1131
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:46,280
slack but but I know my 
audience. 

1132
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:49,040
Listen your ITV page, you need 
to give the little the goof 

1133
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:51,040
section something for them to 
write about, right? 

1134
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:56,360
Yeah, but but anyway, I love him
to death and and I think that, 

1135
00:50:56,560 --> 00:51:00,880
you know, that synchronizing, 
you know, everyone on that like 

1136
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,120
took a minute just to explain 
why we had to do it. 

1137
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:06,320
But but then we got, we did a 
lot, we got a lot of mileage in 

1138
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,280
that area. 
So can I ask, so knowing you 

1139
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:11,560
have to serve as a lot of that 
kind of thinking and, and 

1140
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:13,320
partially because that's who you
are as well. 

1141
00:51:13,720 --> 00:51:17,720
Did you, was that a fine balance
between that and A and a, you 

1142
00:51:17,720 --> 00:51:20,520
know, like a more traditional 
storytelling script that you 

1143
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:22,520
guys had to write to get it out 
there? 

1144
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:25,120
You know, 'cause, you know, this
is not just little vignettes of 

1145
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:26,760
moments, right? 
You know, like you have to tell 

1146
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:30,080
a, a, a pretty straightforward 
narrative to some degree, right?

1147
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:33,280
Like that has a start, you know,
you know, at 0 mark and has to 

1148
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:35,800
end it an hour and a half or two
hours into the movie, right? 

1149
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:39,040
Was that a? 
Was that a bit of a process for 

1150
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,040
you? 
No, I I think like the YouTube 

1151
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:44,720
series knew what it was and it 
wasn't meant to be a substitute 

1152
00:51:44,720 --> 00:51:46,760
for something structurally 
similar to a feature. 

1153
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:48,120
Film. 
So you're saying as a feature 

1154
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:50,560
you approach it different to how
you approach your? 

1155
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:52,920
Definitely. 
I think the shorts have their 

1156
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:54,640
arcs. 
They're very vignette driven, 

1157
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:57,400
like you said, where you get a 
lot of these pieces that, you 

1158
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,040
know, for people online, it 
makes sense to put these things 

1159
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,920
together and then the the story 
comes through repeated viewing 

1160
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:05,200
and stuff or even 1 viewing, 
you'll get it. 

1161
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:07,960
But it's like not maybe not 
appreciated to his fully degree 

1162
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:11,440
fullest degree because it's it's
sort of like a like a like, I 

1163
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:14,840
guess a more concept driven 
version of the OR perspective 

1164
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,000
into the story where it's not 
quite, you know, the hope. 

1165
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,040
I think I meant to say this 
earlier, but like, you know, 

1166
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:24,360
with the desire to do like, did 
I want to do a film with 

1167
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:26,000
backgrounds? 
Who's like yes. 

1168
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,120
And the goal would have been to 
like sort of get the foot in the

1169
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:33,520
door to, you know, get audiences
who are not up to speed on on my

1170
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:38,120
version of the backgrounds and 
who are not, you know, quite. 

1171
00:52:38,720 --> 00:52:40,600
I think the idea would have been
to make something that worked 

1172
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,200
for my audience, that had direct
continuity with what I've made 

1173
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:44,840
and. 
People have never heard of it. 

1174
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:46,560
Yeah. 
Have no idea what it is. 

1175
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:48,840
And and so it could be a first 
step that kind of does the same 

1176
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:52,080
thing that first short did in 
terms of sort of like opening 

1177
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,280
the door to it. 
And then the real like thing 

1178
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:58,400
when I talk, when I exactly when
I talk about having something in

1179
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:00,880
the like the ending that I want 
to reverse engineer from or like

1180
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,400
have that moment I really want 
to get to, it's like, that's not

1181
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:06,280
that's like like I there's so 
much stuff I love every step 

1182
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:08,840
along the way. 
But like this is all driving in 

1183
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,640
a direction where I would say 
the, you know, the material that

1184
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:14,640
I is planned and is written out 
is like it goes outside the 

1185
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:17,000
confines of the YouTube series 
and it goes outside the confines

1186
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,360
of the film. 
These things lay inside a, a 

1187
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,960
broader, I guess, like tree of 
the of the narrative, right? 

1188
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,880
So. 
Which leads me to your cast, 

1189
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:28,160
right? 
This is the first set of, I 

1190
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:31,440
would say, professional actors 
that you've worked with and and 

1191
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:35,040
So what was it like working with
Chiwetel and Renata? 

1192
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:37,760
I mean, it was. 
And everyone else in the movie. 

1193
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:39,600
Yes. 
And everyone, yeah, everyone was

1194
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:41,160
great across the board. 
And I was saying earlier about 

1195
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:42,720
them being my friends. 
Like, do you mean that They're 

1196
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:46,320
lovely, lovely people. 
And I think it was like, like in

1197
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,080
the cases like when we're 
casting Clark and he's like, he 

1198
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:51,640
was like, I, I knew I'd seen 
some of his stuff, like the 

1199
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:55,160
stuff he's directed and, and I, 
you know, I, I like his brain. 

1200
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,480
I was very curious about like, 
you know, talking to him and, 

1201
00:53:58,000 --> 00:53:59,680
and I did, he's great. 
They're both, they're both 

1202
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:01,760
great. 
But I met, I met with him first.

1203
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,080
He was the first person that we 
were really going out to. 

1204
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:08,760
And I, I mean, he was the first 
and only person we, we spoke to 

1205
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,880
about, about the character, 
'cause I, I, I really got it in 

1206
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:14,120
my head that like, after that 
conversation I had with him and,

1207
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:16,400
and seeing the things he was 
curious about with the project 

1208
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:17,920
and with the back rooms in 
general. 

1209
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:22,040
And, you know, just the general,
you know, understanding of 

1210
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:24,600
culturally what the Backrooms 
is, where it comes from and what

1211
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:28,920
it needs to achieve to be a 
meaningful addition to anything.

1212
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:30,800
It's just like, OK, so he gets 
it. 

1213
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,560
And you've got a curiosity 
that's like, I found this with 

1214
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:36,440
Renata very much so. 
As well as like I like when I 

1215
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:39,320
can tell they've got like the 
people I'm working with have 

1216
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:43,320
like a personal curiosity 
they're trying to fulfill with 

1217
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:45,920
this thing like some some reason
that they're something they're 

1218
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:49,320
trying to find beyond just like 
my agent set this up and I want 

1219
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,560
to like let's do a horror film. 
It's like not that at all. 

1220
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:54,840
It was very much like there was 
something almost spiritual or 

1221
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:56,600
profound about. 
It Yeah, they're bringing their 

1222
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:58,800
personal life and story into 
the. 

1223
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:00,400
Character and which? 
Is what you always want. 

1224
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:02,160
That's all that's exactly what 
you want. 

1225
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:05,560
And I just found that I enjoyed 
the conversations we were 

1226
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:09,520
having. 
I, I mean, I, I guess it's like 

1227
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:13,560
I, I give it, given the level of
interiority needed for like some

1228
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:15,840
of the stuff with, with, with, 
with Renata. 

1229
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:18,800
And I knew they would be fits 
for like the pieces we needed 

1230
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,600
them to fulfil. 
And then obviously once we 

1231
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:24,120
actually went to production, it 
was, it was mostly the case of 

1232
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:27,720
they made, they made my job 
supremely easy, right. 

1233
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:31,760
But, but it was a, a, you know, 
a good case of just like, like 

1234
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:33,840
they would, you know, hang out 
like behind the camera, they 

1235
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:35,440
wouldn't go off. 
They would like, you know, be 

1236
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:37,120
around and just like chat with 
people. 

1237
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:38,760
And it was like very 
good-natured and fun. 

1238
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:42,040
And, and I think it helped like,
again, having those sets that 

1239
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,880
were like there and it wasn't CG
and you could like walk through 

1240
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:46,680
them and not see the blue 
screens and not see it. 

1241
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:48,920
You could like, walk through 
several rooms before you realize

1242
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,360
you're on a set. 
That's really cool and. 

1243
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:54,560
So it's like I was trying to 
provide as like answers to any 

1244
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:56,640
question they could possibly 
have and have know where the 

1245
00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:00,560
walls are and basically let 
things still be fluid while like

1246
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:02,960
very strictly knowing what can 
and can't happen. 

1247
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:05,920
So that's, you know, we, we stay
on a very tight course 

1248
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:07,640
narratively. 
So we arrive at the right spot. 

1249
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:08,960
That's really cool. 
Yeah. 

1250
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:13,280
And they you basically use their
characters as as a way in into 

1251
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:16,640
the world, especially for people
that that are not familiar with 

1252
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:19,120
this world. 
And, and they basically, you 

1253
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:23,520
know, they, they, they play 
everyday people, right, that get

1254
00:56:23,720 --> 00:56:28,520
caught in this crazy surreal 
backroom, you know, liminal 

1255
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:30,480
space horror, so to speak, 
right? 

1256
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:34,600
And, and they really kind of 
captured the, the idea that you 

1257
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:37,200
know, that these two guys, you 
know, two people that are, that 

1258
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:41,040
are, that are like stumbling 
into this supernatural world and

1259
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,080
not knowing what is going on. 
And they have to, and the more 

1260
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:47,800
they dig into it, the more they 
discover how this particular 

1261
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:50,960
space reflects themselves, 
right, their personality. 

1262
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:53,160
And I think that's really great,
you know, between yourself and 

1263
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:56,480
the screenwriter. 
What you guys shape and create 

1264
00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:00,720
it in terms of a story to try 
and bring in audiences that that

1265
00:57:00,720 --> 00:57:04,480
are not familiar with with this 
particular world? 

1266
00:57:04,720 --> 00:57:06,160
Yeah, I'm glad it came through 
in that way. 

1267
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:08,280
Definitely. 
Like that was a pretty huge 

1268
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:10,600
focus and I think it's kind of 
crucial to the project. 

1269
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:14,280
So we don't have like a insane. 
It's definitely more of a 

1270
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:17,160
scenario where the risk would be
putting too much lore and 

1271
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:19,880
information into a single film 
rather than trying to scale up 

1272
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:22,760
like a a short that's not built 
for a feature into something 

1273
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:24,520
larger. 
So it was like, and so I think 

1274
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:28,480
we trimmed out like, or we're 
rather focused on the right most

1275
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:30,800
foundational elements of what 
made the idea work, the 

1276
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:33,840
backgrounds as a general idea 
and you know, found a, a way and

1277
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:37,960
that does not involve or or 
necessitate a understanding of 

1278
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:40,520
like what where this YouTube 
series goes, but it's still 

1279
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:43,960
relates to it in some way. 
One of the things I do want to 

1280
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:47,920
talk to you about is you know, 
your your shorts were made for 

1281
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:49,800
YouTube. 
And so people generally for the 

1282
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:53,360
most part watched it on their 
iPhones, on the computer, on the

1283
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:56,360
iPad. 
But now here you are making a 

1284
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:59,400
theatrical version of the 
feature film, right? 

1285
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:02,320
And so the feature film version 
for the theatrical big screen 

1286
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:04,360
experience. 
How do you feel about that 

1287
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:06,520
firstly? 
And, and how do you think that 

1288
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:11,200
would translate from the tiny 
little screen to freaking IMAX? 

1289
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,400
We, we all make movies in 
computer these days. 

1290
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:16,000
It doesn't matter what the 
platform is, right? 

1291
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:18,280
Yeah, there's so much more 
Polish that goes into this and 

1292
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:20,920
like we do like billion 
iterations of each shot and like

1293
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:22,440
constantly refining and all 
that. 

1294
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:26,840
But but, but like I have, I 
would say that this film, you 

1295
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:30,000
know, being able to, and this is
what I wanted from the beginning

1296
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:31,800
with this whole process, The 
thing that I hope to get out of 

1297
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,720
this was being able to, you 
know, I fulfilled the niche of 

1298
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:36,760
the found footage work online 
because that's what I could do 

1299
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:38,760
by myself. 
But what I wanted to be able to 

1300
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,080
do is be able to have stuff that
got out of that and was more 

1301
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:44,200
human centric and more getting 
into the character work that 

1302
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,480
could be portrayed by actual 
human actors who who, you know, 

1303
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:50,840
like were there for that. 
And you know, this in this film,

1304
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:54,480
we finally had the resources to 
attack the concept of the 

1305
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:56,760
backgrounds through that lens, 
which has never happened before.

1306
00:58:57,080 --> 00:59:00,080
And I think we get to see like, 
you know, a much a far more 

1307
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:04,240
personal and intimate version of
this story, which sort of like I

1308
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:06,960
would say comes second in the 
conversation of like people 

1309
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,680
understand the backgrounds. 
Like enough online at this point

1310
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:14,000
that it's like, and now this, 
it's like this is the next or 

1311
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,160
this is the slight advancement 
of the idea. 

1312
00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:19,240
And we're we're seeing a 
slightly more, I'd say a slight,

1313
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:21,440
a slightly more thoughtful and 
elevated version of that. 

1314
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:24,360
That gets us to a place where we
actually get to have a distinct 

1315
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:28,000
relationship between individuals
and the environment, rather than

1316
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,120
letting the relationship be 
largely between. 

1317
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:33,440
Yes, there's a character always 
behind the camera, but more 

1318
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:35,960
often than not, audiences come 
away with the feeling of like 

1319
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:38,880
I'm kind of the person behind, 
like they kind of relate to the 

1320
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:41,560
person behind the camera in a 
way that is like almost more 

1321
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:44,080
like playing a game or watching 
a game play through or 

1322
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:46,480
something, which is not 
something I deliberately cater 

1323
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:47,920
to. 
I just have observed that's 

1324
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:50,720
something that happens and now 
they can see the faces. 

1325
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:53,160
It's so simple, but like 
actually being able to give the 

1326
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:56,960
time to these characters in a 
more direct way and and let 

1327
00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:00,720
their context in life in the 
world outside of their 

1328
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:03,120
relationship with the 
backgrounds giving that weight. 

1329
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:05,000
I think we'll go a long way 
feel. 

1330
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:08,880
That what you're saying here now
translate to the big screen 

1331
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:09,480
experience. 
Oh. 

1332
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:11,840
Yeah, yeah, no, without a doubt.
I mean, it's like it finally 

1333
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:14,920
gives emotional context. 
Like it allows everything that 

1334
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:16,280
we build with these human 
beings. 

1335
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:18,560
Like, then is transposed when 
they interact with the 

1336
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:22,120
backgrounds and, and gives the 
backgrounds of and inherently 

1337
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,200
without the backrooms having to.
It's the same location that 

1338
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:27,240
stays pretty much unchanged. 
That whole element, the complex.

1339
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:30,080
But now it's larger than life. 
Because, because of the human 

1340
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:32,160
element, because of how it's 
framed through the eyes of these

1341
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:35,320
people who, who you can relate 
to, which you didn't have 

1342
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:37,320
before. 
So yeah, yeah, I'd say that's 

1343
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:39,680
probably the and there's also 
just some cool set pieces. 

1344
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:42,800
So excited to show. 
Though some big set pieces yeah,

1345
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:45,760
that you can kind of like, I 
guess you know how you were 

1346
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:48,400
saying you you were talking 
about like just, you know, the 

1347
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:50,480
fans or, you know the people 
from the world just seeing 

1348
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,360
little details there, right, 
Details in the world. 

1349
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:56,560
So like, I guess you know, when 
it's blown up so huge, big, you 

1350
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:58,600
know, you can actually pick up 
little things that you may not 

1351
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:01,960
actually experience or have 
noticed on your phone or on your

1352
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:03,160
computer, right? 
So. 

1353
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,880
My my audience would notice 
anything and everything but but 

1354
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:06,760
yes. 
There's. 

1355
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:09,640
Undoubtedly there is stuff and 
it's great because you can't 

1356
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:11,720
pause it in the theatre. 
So for a select time, you'll 

1357
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,400
you'll maybe have to watch it a 
couple times to find to find 

1358
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:17,280
everything that's in there 
because there's a lot that's 

1359
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:18,800
cool. 
Well, Kate, this has been 

1360
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:20,560
amazing, man. 
It's been amazing. 

1361
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:22,400
Thank you dude. 
Thank you for having a chat with

1362
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:25,720
me about this. 
I love the movie. 

1363
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:28,520
I think you guys all did a 
fantastic job and the movie is 

1364
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:30,280
great. 
And I really think you captured 

1365
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:33,560
the spirit of what you know you 
did with the shorts and, and 

1366
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:35,400
here we have the the feature 
film version. 

1367
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:39,640
And so you must be excited to 
have people out there see this 

1368
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:43,040
movie when it finally comes out.
Tremendously excited you like 

1369
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:45,040
thank you so much for just 
supporting us for the time you 

1370
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:46,520
have. 
And it's like we're talking, 

1371
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:49,120
we're talking like, like, you 
know, like how this happened. 

1372
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:50,720
But but you've been around 
supporting this since the 

1373
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:53,000
beginning, like literally the 
first month that any of this was

1374
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:57,040
happening, we came into contact 
and it's, it's just been a great

1375
01:01:57,040 --> 01:01:59,040
partnership. 
Guys, so this has been awesome. 

1376
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:00,040
Thank you man. 
Thank you man. 

1377
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:00,640
This is lovely.