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Hey, welcome back to the 824 
podcast. 

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After a brief Hiatus. 
We're excited to kick things off

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with a conversation between 
filmmaker David Lowery, an 

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actor, producer and genre 
impresario Elijah Wood. 

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They recently met up in La where
Elijah came prepared with a list

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of all his unanswered. 
Questions about the Green 

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Knight. 
Like why was Dev? 

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Patel? 
Photographed on set, holding a 

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giant bleeding heart? 
We hope you enjoyed the episode 

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and look out for many more in 
the months to come, right? 

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So Hi, I'm Elijah Wood and I'm 
David Lowery and we are talking 

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on the a24 podcast is a 24 
podcast indeed. 

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Yeah. 
Hi David. 

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It's so great to see it's so 
good to see entire ever. 

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It has been. 
I feel like it's been, well, 

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it's over two years because it's
certainly pre-pandemic. 

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Yeah, sometime pre-pandemic. 
I was out in LA and yeah, we 

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hung out, but I don't know. 
Time time means nothing anymore.

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Dude. 
I know well and wasn't Green 

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Knight. 
I mean speaking of time. 

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Green Knight was supposed to 
come out a year before. 

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Yeah, it was supposed to come 
out in May of 2020, right and 

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that very quickly fell by the 
wayside. 

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Yeah, as we approach. 
That release date a lot of 

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things are supposed to happen in
2020. 

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But yeah, it definitely it got 
pushed along with most movies. 

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Yeah, and now, here we are. 
And like, it feels like I can't 

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imagine a world in which it had 
opened then, you know. 

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Oh, it's so strange like, in 
spite of the fact that I hate 

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the fact that we've all had to 
go through this together. 

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I can't imagine being in a 
position where we hadn't if that

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makes sense. 
So, totally did anything change 

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about the film in that time, or 
your feelings about it. 

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It's a unique thing. 
And I've not heard any 

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filmmakers really talk about 
this. 

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Yeah, where they've made 
something, they've gone through 

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that process. 
We all know what that process is

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like and then there's this sort 
of anticipation of sort of 

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giving birth to that project. 
And then to have that, No 

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delayed in that way for quite a 
long time. 

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What it, what was that? 
What did that feel like? 

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And how did how did your 
relationship to the film? 

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I'm just, I'm just so curious. 
It was really somewhat profound 

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because normally when you make a
movie released, when I make a 

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movie on a philosophical level, 
I feel it's important to let go 

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of it. 
Yeah. 

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And hand it over to the world as
it were. 

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Yeah. 
At which point my relationship 

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with it, sort of ends, never 
completely, but it's like, it's 

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not just mine and he More. 
It's better for my role in to be

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very minimal. 
Yeah, so to finish a movie and 

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make that, you know, make my 
peace with it and let it go and 

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then have no one see it like, 
no, it's the exchange doesn't 

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take place. 
You just cast off into the 

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ether. 
Yeah, was very strange. 

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I think ultimately was very 
healthy, but it was a very 

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strange, you know, really brings
up that question. 

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Like any often movie doesn't 
plane from an audience. 

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Does it actually exist? 
Yeah, the old tree falling in 

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the forest precisely. 
Yeah. 

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The other thing that had 
happened was that I Finishing 

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the movie while we were in prep 
for another film. 

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It's a really just like racing 
to do two films at once. 

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On either end, burning the 
candle at both ends. 

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That's stressful. 
It was stressful in a good way. 

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I have time. 
I thought it was in a good way, 

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but looking back. 
And I'm like, okay, I see the, 

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the unhealthiness of this. 
I'd be like location scouting. 

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Like, in the woods of British 
Columbia and then go to this 

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like, little hotel and evening, 
and editing the movie on my 

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laptop and like it, definitely. 
I thought it was very doable. 

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You know, you look at folks like
Berg who have, like two movies 

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come out in one year and you're 
like, it's got to be doable. 

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Sure, but I see the downsides of
it. 

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Hmm. 
So after you know, we're racing 

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to finish it and it's Skywalker 
Ranch when we therefore the 

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sound mix. 
Yeah. 

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Oh man, it's the best place. 
We're racing to finish. 

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It was going to screen at South 
by Southwest and wow, which 

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we've been great because I my 
first film satanic played there 

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and I had another movie play 
there since but it wasn't going 

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to be the completely finished 
version. 

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We were still working on a 
couple things, but it was pretty

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close. 
And then we got the news that 

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Tom Hanks had covid which was I 
think the moment when we all 

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sort of realized like this could
be bigger than we were all 

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pretending. 
It was going to be, you know, a 

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day later South by Southwest was
cancelled and then, pretty 

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quickly after that, it seemed 
even though we didn't make the 

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decision to seem pretty clear 
that the movie wasn't going to 

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open in May as soon as fast and 
the furious and James bond-like 

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got pushed. 
It was like the writing was on 

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the wall. 
Yeah, so we weren't done. 

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We like we Still had like 
several days of mixing to go. 

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And so, we just stopped. 
Well, we're in this, like, 

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little bit of limbo where the 
movie was almost done, but not 

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done enough to where we could 
like deliver it. 

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Yep. 
And everything, just kind of 

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like, got quiet, you know, by 
necessity. 

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Like it was a rare instance in 
which like the bond company, 

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which you usually have for an 
independent film was like, okay,

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you don't have to deliver on 
this date, you know, and so 

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then, like a month later, I, you
know, was talking to Toby my 

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producer. 
Some of the folks at 24 about 

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some of the visual effects. 
We wanted to keep working on and

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I opened up the edit and saw a 
little change. 

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I wanted to make like seven 
frames. 

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Yeah, and I made that change was
like, okay, real one is now 

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unlocked and which from being 
locked unlocked and then once 

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that happened, it just was like 
a Cascade of like seeing other 

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little changes I can make. 
And because I'd taken like a 

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month away from me, where I 
wasn't like focusing on two 

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movies at once. 
I was suddenly able to see it 

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with like a clear perspective. 
Of which is so rare, incredibly 

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rare that never you never get 
that objective perspective on 

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film when you're working on 
because you're so in there. 

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Always in the weeds have until 
the point. 

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When it gets released. 
Totally one of the things that 

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happened while I was racing to 
finish, it was that I grew 

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almost arbitrarily afraid of a 
running time that was over two 

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hours worried that I was going 
to bore people, or that it was 

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just going to outstayed, its 
welcome. 

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Yeah. 
We're one thing or another and I

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just started just chopping away 
and just like, very like, 

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Actually cutting anything that 
had any dead air in it or 

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anything. 
That just was not contributing 

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to the forward, momentum of the 
story. 

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But the problem with, as I make 
movies where the they don't, 

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often have a lot of momentum. 
I mean they do but it's a very 

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leisurely sort of momentum. 
Sure. 

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And so I was sort of just 
hobbling myself in a way because

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the movie was always going to be
what it was going to be. 

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The pace was always built into 
this Chute like, you know, I 

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often when I'm writing my 
scripts. 

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I'll describe how long a shot is
going to last, right? 

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Right? 
And I just got cold feet at some

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point in the editorial process 
and was just what I described as

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hate cutting where I'm just 
like, I'm like, this isn't this 

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isn't working. 
I'm just going to cut this out 

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and never look at it again. 
Yeah, so when I went back to 

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revisit the movie, I just was 
like, oh, it's too short. 

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There were a lot of scenes that 
we shot that were removed for a 

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good reason, but then, there are
a lot that I just arbitrarily 

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taken out just to help 
contribute to that faster 

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running quicker running time. 
And so I started to put those 

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things back in and let the Movie
breathe a little bit more, and 

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it became something that wasn't 
that different in theory from 

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the version that we'd fit almost
finished in March, but it just 

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became a better representation 
of everything we had tried to 

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do. 
Yeah. 

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And all like, friends of mine 
would watch the new cut as it 

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came together and not be able to
pinpoint exactly what it was 

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that was different. 
But they would say, like it just

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meant more like everything that 
I liked about it before. 

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Now, I like more because it just
resonates greater clear. 

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Their depth, probably character 
moments that were reinserted, 

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definitely, definitely. 
And I'd cut it to the quick to 

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such an extent that you just 
don't have time to process their

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and things. 
Yeah, and now let you know, 

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they're all these scenes that 
were kind of there. 

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But now they're really there and
they mean more and great. 

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What an incredible lesson to 
learn and for the like a 

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situation that is uncontrollable
to have given you, the 

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opportunity to learn that lesson
or to experience that, you know,

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everyone over the 18 months has 
been looking for as many Silver.

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Linings as possible, never used 
the term Silver, Linings, as 

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often as I have and this is this
is one of them. 

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Yeah. 
This was definitely one of them,

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that's kind of incredible. 
And I get that, I think, you 

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know that that arbitrary feeling
of making something pop or have 

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a faster running time. 
I get I get that. 

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That makes a lot of sense but 
you know something will also 

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like you're saying will be what 
it needs to be. 

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It will then you kind of have to
serve what it wants to be. 

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And I've Been in that place 
before where I just feel like I 

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owe something to an audience. 
Like, I owe them like, you know,

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a quicker Expedition from the 
cinema. 

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I don't know what it is. 
Well, but what I owe them is a 

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good movie. 
Like, what I owe them is not 

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like a short movie. 
It's just a good movie. 

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And sometimes it's, it's really 
especially when you have like, a

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lot of voices in the room, or 
when you have an impending, 

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release date or whatever, 
whatever the pressures, maybe 

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you just start to get 
self-conscious of course, and it

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can sometimes push you in the 
wrong direction. 

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Well, that's incredible. 
That's amazing. 

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That you that you were given 
that kind of gift. 

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Actually of objectivity to be 
able to look at something in a 

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way that you wouldn't have 
otherwise and and the movie 

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would be great. 
Undoubtedly without you having 

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done that, but it may not have 
been as resident. 

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I don't think just really 
interest this very powerful. 

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It's a, it's a powerful 
resonating movie and I now can't

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imagine it not feeling that way.
I don't really feel like it's 

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one of those situations where 
It's worth putting out that 

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alternate cut like saying, like 
here's the version that there's 

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not there's nothing to be gained
from that totally. 

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Yeah, because it's not that 
profoundly different but it is 

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like on a level of process a 
really good reminder of how much

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like four frames can make a 
difference. 

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Yeah. 
How much like an extra 12 frames

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at the end of a shot can have a 
ripple effect that affects 

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everything else. 
Easy. 

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And what is what is the actual 
difference of running time? 

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It's about 10 minutes and some 
of that is The accumulation of 8

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or 12 frames and then and then 
there's one scene that got. 

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I let it I put the whole scene 
in as opposed to like this 

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fragment of it. 
That was in there before was a 

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scene with the list of a Candor,
right. 

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And up until sitting by a river 
in needed that scene. 

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I have there's one thing I 
watched the movie again. 

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Laughs seen it three times. 
Now. 

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I'm amazing. 
It's so good. 

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But one thing I still haven't 
been able to figure out because 

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there's it doesn't seem like 
there's any resolution to it is 

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the opening shot. 
What building is that? 

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That is on. 
On fire. 

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I feel like maybe I'm dumb and 
I've like, totally missed like a

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really obvious thing because 
then there's the couple that 

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come in and retrieve the horse. 
Yeah, man. 

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Draws his sword and runs and 
then we pull back to reveal, Dev

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being woken up. 
So what, what did I miss? 

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I wish I had a copy of the poem,
so I could just read the opening

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lines of the poem bulk. 
The beginning of the poem starts

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with the fall of Troy Oak, how 
the scattering of the heroes 

226
00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:00,800
from that great Siege gave birth
to All of the great empires of 

227
00:11:00,808 --> 00:11:05,700
the western world and the ideas 
of heroism, that begat all of 

228
00:11:05,700 --> 00:11:08,700
the Arthurian Tales, well the 
theory and legends. 

229
00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,700
And so I wanted to reflect that 
idea. 

230
00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:17,100
Very abstractly. 
And so, you know, Dev Patel 

231
00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:19,100
wants to be a hero. 
Yeah. 

232
00:11:19,100 --> 00:11:22,200
He wants to be like the 
traditional, you know, great 

233
00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,800
night who's going to go chop off
the Giants head and when the 

234
00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,200
lady and all of those things. 
And so to begin with this idea 

235
00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,100
of like this, Image. 
That is a adjacent to him, 

236
00:11:32,100 --> 00:11:33,900
having a dream. 
So it almost feels like a dream.

237
00:11:33,900 --> 00:11:37,800
He's having of a, you know, some
heroic Act of old but on a 

238
00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,100
literal level. 
What's happening is you know, a 

239
00:11:40,100 --> 00:11:45,200
house is burning down and a 
young man is absconding with a 

240
00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,800
woman and you hear a battle 
happening on the other side of 

241
00:11:48,808 --> 00:11:51,500
the wall, which is really just 
like I was like, okay, if we 

242
00:11:51,500 --> 00:11:55,700
boiled the Trojan War down to 
like a farmhand running away 

243
00:11:55,700 --> 00:11:58,700
with the farmer's daughter and 
setting fire to the house and 

244
00:11:58,700 --> 00:12:00,900
the farmers in the background. 
Screaming like this house of the

245
00:12:00,900 --> 00:12:02,500
fire. 
That's the literal version of 

246
00:12:02,508 --> 00:12:04,900
what's happening. 
But those characters are meant 

247
00:12:04,900 --> 00:12:08,100
to suggest like Paris and Helen 
of Troy in the credible in the 

248
00:12:08,100 --> 00:12:09,700
background. 
You hear this farmer yelling, if

249
00:12:09,700 --> 00:12:11,900
you listen really closely just 
yelling Helen at the top of his 

250
00:12:11,900 --> 00:12:13,600
lungs. 
And then we soak. 

251
00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,100
And then we pull back and then 
we're in the devs world, but 

252
00:12:16,100 --> 00:12:21,600
it's just like to suggest like 
that the legacy of heroism that 

253
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,500
dev has character thinks he 
needs to participate in. 

254
00:12:24,500 --> 00:12:26,700
Right? 
That is awesome. 

255
00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,000
Thank you. 
That's incredible. 

256
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,000
Never read the Original poem, I 
I clearly need to is that 

257
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,400
something that you read as a kid
was I knew about it as a kid 

258
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,200
because I was really into the, 
all the Arthurian lore because 

259
00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:40,900
of Indiana Jones and the Last 
Crusade. 

260
00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:42,700
That was like what got me out 
right? 

261
00:12:42,700 --> 00:12:45,400
Grail biology, right? 
And so I knew most of those 

262
00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,200
Legends by didn't read the 
original text until I was in 

263
00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:49,700
school. 
So in high school, we read Le 

264
00:12:49,700 --> 00:12:51,700
morte d'arthur. 
Although I'm sure it was a very 

265
00:12:51,700 --> 00:12:57,700
truncated translation and then 
in college my first semester of 

266
00:12:57,700 --> 00:13:01,500
English literature, we read like
Odyssey, The Aeneid, all of the,

267
00:13:01,500 --> 00:13:06,700
all of the Great Western, you 
know, poems, that begat the 

268
00:13:06,900 --> 00:13:10,000
literary tradition that we now 
major in worldwide. 

269
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,400
Yeah. 
And the Sir Gawain and the Green

270
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,300
Knight was the last thing we 
read, I knew the story. 

271
00:13:16,300 --> 00:13:18,800
So it was like I was kind of 
able to Coast through it because

272
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:20,700
of that show. 
And I was just like I'd read way

273
00:13:20,700 --> 00:13:22,800
too much, right, you know the 
beat. 

274
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,400
Yeah, exactly. 
But it nonetheless like reading 

275
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,500
it, it definitely it resonated 
with me. 

276
00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:31,400
Even then, you know. 
No, 18 or 19 or however old. 

277
00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,800
I was at that point. 
And the thing that I liked about

278
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:39,200
it was that aside from like all 
the you know, sex and violence 

279
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,500
which the poem is full of is 
like the concept of this night 

280
00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:46,300
going on a quest the end of 
which has to be if he succeeds 

281
00:13:46,300 --> 00:13:48,900
his own death. 
Yes, and of course in the poem, 

282
00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:52,100
he doesn't actually died. 
He gets let off easy, but the 

283
00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:56,500
idea that on events in the poem 
in the poem as in the film, you 

284
00:13:56,500 --> 00:13:58,900
know, he flinches when the Green
Knight raises his axe. 

285
00:13:58,900 --> 00:14:01,500
Yeah. 
And then the green eyes like you

286
00:14:01,500 --> 00:14:06,200
sir you Flinch and you know, you
I didn't, you know, show signs 

287
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:10,800
of fear when when I faced your 
blow a year ago and and so then 

288
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,600
go and like steals up his 
courage and like prepares 

289
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,500
himself. 
And the Green Knight, you know, 

290
00:14:15,500 --> 00:14:17,700
brings the ax down again, but 
just give someone like a paper 

291
00:14:17,700 --> 00:14:19,900
cut. 
And he's like, because you 

292
00:14:19,900 --> 00:14:22,100
showed courage. 
Now, I'm going to let you go and

293
00:14:22,100 --> 00:14:26,000
then he goes into like three 
pages of, you know, a third act 

294
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:27,700
classic. 
Third act, Exposition dump, 

295
00:14:27,700 --> 00:14:29,600
which was, which was a problem 
with narrative. 

296
00:14:29,700 --> 00:14:33,400
Even, you know, 700 years ago, 
where he explains that, this 

297
00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,800
whole thing was a plot by Morgan
Le Fay to scare Guinevere to 

298
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,500
death, right? 
And he sends God, went home and 

299
00:14:39,500 --> 00:14:41,600
got ones. 
You know, he taken the belt off.

300
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:43,600
That was the thing, like you 
taken off the belt, that was 

301
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,500
like the charm that would 
protect him against harm so he 

302
00:14:45,500 --> 00:14:47,000
could face him as a man. 
Sure. 

303
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,900
And he's like just wear that 
forever more as a sign of your 

304
00:14:50,900 --> 00:14:55,600
mortal foibles, you know, he's 
in spite of being a great night.

305
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,000
You were still susceptible to 
fear just like any other man. 

306
00:14:58,100 --> 00:15:01,200
Yes, and he goes back to camp. 
With this green belt and all of 

307
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,800
the nights and Camelot, decide 
to also wear green sash to 

308
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,200
remind themselves of how 
capable, they are. 

309
00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,500
Ya in their own sense of, you 
know, defects. 

310
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,300
Yeah. 
As it were as easy as fears and 

311
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,900
that's how the poem ends. 
Wow, which is almost all the 

312
00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:21,100
movie ends. 
I just wanted to take a nice one

313
00:15:21,100 --> 00:15:22,800
to turn the knife, a little 
further. 

314
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:28,800
It's the ultimate test that he's
given and the sort of glimpse of

315
00:15:29,300 --> 00:15:31,600
Allah. 
Life that he could have for 

316
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,800
making the wrong choice. 
It's really beautiful. 

317
00:15:36,300 --> 00:15:40,800
You know, it's definitely like, 
you know, if he really had to 

318
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,800
make a hard Choice. 
He should have seen like a great

319
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,200
life, a great life laying out 
ahead of him. 

320
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,000
That he then has to know, turn 
his back on to make the right 

321
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,300
choice. 
But to me, it was important to 

322
00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:56,100
see. 
It's not meant to be literal. 

323
00:15:56,100 --> 00:15:57,800
It's not a literal thing. 
Like he could have gone off and 

324
00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,000
been a king of Benin, great 
king, but I Heart. 

325
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,500
He would have known that he'd 
gotten their through deceit, and

326
00:16:02,500 --> 00:16:05,000
it was important to see, like a 
literal representation of that 

327
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:10,400
deceit, eating away at him. 
I also interpret it as him 

328
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:15,700
seeing his truth in terms of if 
he were to carry on in the path 

329
00:16:15,700 --> 00:16:18,600
that he's on its relatively 
arrogant. 

330
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:23,000
It's relatively self-centered. 
He wasn't ready to accept love. 

331
00:16:23,700 --> 00:16:28,000
He wanted all of the great 
things of being king or being a 

332
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,600
Knight without Out what it 
really takes to be a true. 

333
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,100
Good human. 
Yes, and I think what, he what 

334
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:39,600
my interpretation of it is that 
he saw a path laid out for what 

335
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,200
his core represented at that 
time and he chose against that 

336
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,900
core in the last in that last 
moment. 

337
00:16:45,900 --> 00:16:47,100
Exactly. 
That's exactly right. 

338
00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:51,100
And that to me is far more 
powerful than seeing something 

339
00:16:51,100 --> 00:16:55,000
really seeing a great future 
and, and deciding that you're 

340
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,000
going to let you know, fate or 
whatever. 

341
00:16:57,500 --> 00:16:59,400
Take its course. 
No. 

342
00:16:59,700 --> 00:17:01,700
Seeing oh, man. 
This is what I'm made of. 

343
00:17:01,700 --> 00:17:04,000
I mean, I don't want to be that.
It's actually a moment of 

344
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:05,800
self-awareness. 
It's like almost whole document 

345
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,900
where he become self-aware. 
And yes, that that Clarity that 

346
00:17:08,900 --> 00:17:11,900
allows him to do the right thing
fully for the first time, which 

347
00:17:11,900 --> 00:17:14,000
is what his mom wanted him to 
see precisely. 

348
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,099
That's what this whole journey 
has been about. 

349
00:17:16,099 --> 00:17:19,400
It's All About a Mom. 
Just trying to give her son that

350
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,400
helpful nudge. 
Literally what it is, which is 

351
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,200
so, it's so beautiful. 
That was something that came 

352
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:30,200
about almost as a surprise. 
So interesting because Was in 

353
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,000
the poem. 
As I mentioned, it's more than 

354
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:33,500
the face. 
She doesn't show up until the, 

355
00:17:33,500 --> 00:17:35,300
you know, she didn't. 
She never literally shows up 

356
00:17:35,300 --> 00:17:37,400
aside from like being the old 
woman in Disguise and the 

357
00:17:37,408 --> 00:17:41,600
castle, right, but it's revealed
at the end that she was behind 

358
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,500
everything and I wanted to 
maintain that, I wanted her to 

359
00:17:45,500 --> 00:17:49,900
be, you know, the instigator of 
all these events, but I wanted 

360
00:17:49,900 --> 00:17:52,100
to bring her in earlier. 
And so, I had, I had drafts, 

361
00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:56,000
were she showed up earlier and 
where Godwin's mother goes to 

362
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:57,500
her. 
And then at one point, I was 

363
00:17:57,500 --> 00:18:00,800
just like, what if I just 
combine those Actors and doing 

364
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:02,700
that. 
Like, I didn't do anything else.

365
00:18:02,700 --> 00:18:05,500
I just combine those characters 
and the and the ripple effect of

366
00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:11,200
that was so intense and change 
things so much that I didn't. 

367
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,800
I'm still kind of like 
processing how on a personal 

368
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,000
level that like reflects upon 
like my own history with my mom,

369
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,100
which is very similar. 
Would you like, I lived at home 

370
00:18:19,100 --> 00:18:22,500
for way too long and she had to 
give me that little like helpful

371
00:18:22,700 --> 00:18:26,400
nudge out the door and it's 
those things that you do that. 

372
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,200
You don't even think about until
much later. 

373
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,400
And all of a sudden, like, oh, I
Was just like working through 

374
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:36,400
things from like over a decade 
ago that I'm still clearly like 

375
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,100
trying to figure out, like, you 
know, I'm still trying to 

376
00:18:39,100 --> 00:18:41,000
process. 
How old were you when you left 

377
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,300
home, 26 also pretty old. 
Yeah. 

378
00:18:44,900 --> 00:18:49,000
I'd had a couple tries of like, 
going out on my own and making 

379
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:50,700
it. 
I spent some time living out 

380
00:18:50,700 --> 00:18:52,400
here in LA and I just kept 
failing. 

381
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,800
And I was 23. 
I think 24. 

382
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,500
When I finally moved him. 
I'm the benefactor of like 

383
00:18:59,700 --> 00:19:03,600
Arobin, in fact, e of like two 
loving parents who really like 

384
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,400
created a warm nest for their 
children, and I'm the oldest of 

385
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:08,700
nine. 
So we were like all live in 

386
00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:12,700
spite your from a massive new. 
Yeah, and and it just was like 

387
00:19:12,700 --> 00:19:15,700
it just made sense to say there.
Never, it never occurred to me 

388
00:19:15,700 --> 00:19:20,600
that like, I needed to leave 
until I was, you know, hopefully

389
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,800
nudged out the door, that's kind
of incredible. 

390
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:24,600
So you're really close with your
siblings. 

391
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,600
And yeah, we're and we're all 
like artists to one degree or 

392
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,000
another, my parents were. 
Definitely like very 

393
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,100
instrumental in helping us like 
all feel that the greater value 

394
00:19:36,100 --> 00:19:39,700
in life is not to like, be 
quote, unquote successful, but 

395
00:19:39,700 --> 00:19:42,800
just pursue whatever passions 
compel us to like fulfill 

396
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:43,900
yourself. 
Exactly. 

397
00:19:43,900 --> 00:19:47,600
And so, a couple of my siblings 
are musicians rat. 

398
00:19:47,900 --> 00:19:51,300
My brother Ben is a painter, and
he works on most of my movies as

399
00:19:51,300 --> 00:19:53,600
like a concept artist. 
I mean, he did a lot of art for 

400
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:54,800
this film. 
Oh, great. 

401
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:56,800
And include he did. 
The one matte painting, the one 

402
00:19:56,900 --> 00:19:59,500
classic matte painting, which 
one in the in. 

403
00:19:59,700 --> 00:20:03,600
A great hall. 
When the Green Knight Aura for 

404
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,000
the Green Knight shows up when 
the king is addressing 

405
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,400
everybody. 
Yeah, the shot just wasn't as 

406
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,700
wide as I wanted it to be 
because we had the camera up 

407
00:20:10,700 --> 00:20:12,600
against the wall. 
And that was like, I wish we 

408
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,500
could just be much wider. 
Share more that. 

409
00:20:14,500 --> 00:20:16,100
Yeah, and those shows are 
incredible. 

410
00:20:16,300 --> 00:20:19,700
I was a, here's an opportunity 
to actually do an old-fashioned.

411
00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:21,900
Matt. 
I actually wanted in prep. 

412
00:20:21,900 --> 00:20:24,000
We talked about doing glass 
mats, like actually. 

413
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,300
Yeah, finding the artists who 
still work. 

414
00:20:26,300 --> 00:20:28,000
They all mean, a lot of them 
work at wet and out doing 

415
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,500
digital versions of it, but we 
just didn't have the time to 

416
00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:33,800
prepare that like actually lock 
the camera into place and know 

417
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,500
exactly where we were going to 
block out the areas for the 

418
00:20:36,500 --> 00:20:38,300
glass painting to come into play
there. 

419
00:20:38,300 --> 00:20:40,700
So. 
But but we did in that shot. 

420
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,400
I was like we don't have enough 
extras in here, you know, we 

421
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,700
don't have the shots not wide 
enough, but I bet we could just 

422
00:20:46,700 --> 00:20:49,000
paint it all in. 
And so for that one shot, 

423
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,800
there's like a bunch of painted 
people off to the sides and 

424
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,600
painted fire. 
Like, it was just the extension 

425
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,600
on either side of the frame. 
Yeah, exactly. 

426
00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,800
Okay, and so like anybody any 
Years. 

427
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,100
You see in there. 
They're like, kind of like 

428
00:21:01,100 --> 00:21:03,300
encroaching on the side and the 
Darkness are all just 

429
00:21:03,300 --> 00:21:06,200
hand-painted. 
I'm gonna watch it again to see 

430
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:10,400
that, but and it was definitely 
like almost checked off a goemon

431
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,500
goal of mine, which is that have
like to have like traditional 

432
00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:16,200
matte paintings and movies. 
And I want to, I want to at some

433
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,200
point, do the full on like glass
mat, dude, partially just to 

434
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:21,400
have that painting after. 
All right. 

435
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:22,500
Absolutely. 
Absolutely. 

436
00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:26,200
When we were doing Pete's 
Dragon, our post sweet was 

437
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,700
decorated with art from the 
Disney archives, and the They 

438
00:21:29,700 --> 00:21:32,200
just brought out all of their 
old glass mats. 

439
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,200
Oh my God, what a treasure in 
them, and lift them and it was 

440
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,400
just incredible. 
Just to stand there, like look 

441
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,600
them. 
Yeah, I mean, getting to getting

442
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,600
to play. 
I mean, yeah, I'm having been 

443
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,700
able to take off that particular
box, you know, for techniques 

444
00:21:44,700 --> 00:21:48,500
that are not really used like 
that anymore, is such a special 

445
00:21:48,500 --> 00:21:52,000
thing and it's so lovely to be 
able to play with those old 

446
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,800
tools. 
I mean, I remember that being 

447
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,000
such a joyful thing on Lord of 
the Rings when we were doing 

448
00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:59,400
forced perspective. 
Yeah. 

449
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:04,100
Just utilizing the simplest 
tricks in the book that were in 

450
00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:07,600
camera, an incredibly effective.
And and you get this sort of 

451
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,200
this jolt of enthusiasm and 
excitement of you're playing 

452
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,500
with movie Magic, and you're 
seeing it happen before. 

453
00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:15,300
Your eyes are seeing it happen 
before your eyes and you go to 

454
00:22:15,300 --> 00:22:17,200
the dailies and you see that it 
actually works. 

455
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:18,600
And everyone's like, whoa, we 
did that. 

456
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,500
We were literally there 
yesterday, shooting that now 

457
00:22:20,500 --> 00:22:22,400
it's done. 
And there it is as opposed to. 

458
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,300
Now when you're just like six 
months of look, amazingly 

459
00:22:24,300 --> 00:22:27,800
surrender to exactly. 
And and I like that, to me. 

460
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:32,900
I love, I love I love But there 
is something something. 

461
00:22:32,900 --> 00:22:37,600
So, satisfying, as a filmmaker 
for the whole crew, when you 

462
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,700
were pulling something off in 
camera, and I do believe that, 

463
00:22:40,700 --> 00:22:42,800
that like translates over to the
audience. 

464
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,500
There's a, since when, when 
you're watching a movie, 

465
00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:48,500
including movies, I've made 
where you just assume everyone's

466
00:22:48,500 --> 00:22:50,600
like assuming it's a digital 
effect and they're correct 

467
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,600
because you're just like, well, 
that's done with computers. 

468
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,300
Sure. 
And you don't think about how 

469
00:22:54,300 --> 00:22:57,200
hard it is to do with computers.
You just like in your mind, even

470
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:58,400
for me. 
I think what you just press a 

471
00:22:58,400 --> 00:22:59,500
button, you take that for 
granted. 

472
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,100
You take it for granted. 
It's a ton of work. 

473
00:23:01,100 --> 00:23:04,400
It is a lot of work. 
Yeah, but when you see something

474
00:23:04,900 --> 00:23:08,000
that subverts that expectation, 
that was done with computers. 

475
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,400
We were like that feels real in 
a way that I don't understand. 

476
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,300
It's far more profound as an 
audience member and usually it's

477
00:23:16,300 --> 00:23:17,900
happening on a subconscious 
level, but every now and then, 

478
00:23:17,900 --> 00:23:20,500
they'll be one that just like, I
think it's like some that forced

479
00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:23,200
perspective stuff is that? 
Yeah, type of work where you're 

480
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,400
like. 
You think about that shot where 

481
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,700
the camera was moving and you're
like there's something going on 

482
00:23:28,700 --> 00:23:31,200
there. 
Like going around the table. 

483
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,800
Yeah, and it's like I'm sure it 
could be done with computers. 

484
00:23:33,900 --> 00:23:36,700
But when you're watching that, 
you understand that there is 

485
00:23:36,700 --> 00:23:41,000
something metaphysical happens 
that, yes, it's just nuts and 

486
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,100
bolts but translates into 
something truly special. 

487
00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:47,200
Yes, you can feel it on the kind
of molecular level. 

488
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,500
It's funny to what you said 
about the crew being able to 

489
00:23:51,500 --> 00:23:54,600
feel that as well, which is so 
important when you're making 

490
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,200
something. 
Yeah, especially when you're 

491
00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:00,500
making something with a lot of 
VFX for the Route to be able to 

492
00:24:00,500 --> 00:24:06,000
see in the moment and in camera.
Some some bit of that magic come

493
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,300
to life is so impactful. 
Yes, and it really kind of it 

494
00:24:10,300 --> 00:24:13,400
reverberates, this energy 
amongst everybody and and they 

495
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,700
can then rally even more behind 
the thing that we're all working

496
00:24:16,700 --> 00:24:19,500
on. 
I remember that on, I worked on 

497
00:24:19,508 --> 00:24:23,200
this film Eternal Sunshine of 
the Spotless Mind and there was 

498
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,400
a shot. 
The end of the second week. 

499
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:31,100
We did this shot. 
That was All, it was a one-er 

500
00:24:31,100 --> 00:24:35,000
where Kate Winslet and and gym, 
or running down a hall for 

501
00:24:35,100 --> 00:24:37,800
having come from a facsimile of 
the house. 

502
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,900
So it's in this sort of dream 
world. 

503
00:24:40,100 --> 00:24:42,400
They leave the house, go into 
the Hall of the doctor's office.

504
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,400
Come in to open the door. 
The camera moves around. 

505
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,600
Jim takes his hat off. 
He's got like a beanie cap and a

506
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,100
jacket takes that off spins 
around and he's now the patient.

507
00:24:53,100 --> 00:24:56,300
Jim. 
Having observed himself camera 

508
00:24:56,300 --> 00:24:59,400
spins around sees me drop some 
papers spins back. 

509
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,800
He's put his hat back on to be 
the gym. 

510
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,600
That's just run with Kate. 
And I think we did 16 or 17 

511
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,500
takes of it. 
And when it was done, it was 

512
00:25:08,500 --> 00:25:10,800
seamless. 
Yeah, you saw it and it was 

513
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,800
electric suddenly everybody on 
set realized what we were 

514
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,500
making. 
And it's just so powerful and 

515
00:25:17,500 --> 00:25:19,600
and you're right. 
It does translate to the 

516
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,900
audience as well. 
You see that shot in your brain 

517
00:25:21,900 --> 00:25:23,200
goes. 
I it's real. 

518
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,500
Something is happening here, 
that I can't make sense of, but 

519
00:25:26,500 --> 00:25:29,400
it definitely feels real. 
And it resonates in a way that 

520
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,200
If it were digital, it wouldn't 
have quite the same effect. 

521
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:33,800
It's very true. 
It's very true. 

522
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,200
And and there's something about 
bringing the community of a film

523
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,500
set into that experience. 
Yes, and making sure that 

524
00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:43,300
everyone is participating it and
can feel that pride in it. 

525
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,900
Yes, even when it's not a visual
effects thing, but when you're 

526
00:25:45,900 --> 00:25:48,300
just like making a movie, one 
thing I try to do is like, 

527
00:25:48,300 --> 00:25:51,200
halfway through the shoot just 
cut together, an assembly of 

528
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,500
everything, not the movie, but 
just like a almost, like a demo 

529
00:25:54,500 --> 00:25:56,300
reel. 
Yeah, and show everybody. 

530
00:25:56,300 --> 00:25:58,900
We like awareness projector in a
screening room when everyone 

531
00:25:58,900 --> 00:26:01,000
comes in. 
And watches it and it's like 

532
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,500
such a nice invigorating moment.
Yeah, especially if it's a hard 

533
00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:08,500
shoot like to be reminded that 
we're all working together 

534
00:26:08,500 --> 00:26:11,300
towards like something that 
hopefully will be incredible. 

535
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,600
That's the best. 
It's the best that connects so 

536
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:19,600
much to what I think we both 
love about making movies is fact

537
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,500
that sense of a group of people 
working together really hard 

538
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,800
towards something that they all 
really believe in. 

539
00:26:25,900 --> 00:26:29,700
Yeah, and when you can kind of 
throw in a moment like that To 

540
00:26:29,700 --> 00:26:31,400
remind people what they're 
making. 

541
00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:36,800
It's just it's so special and it
and it can reinvigorate people 

542
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,100
for another month to two months 
ago, based on the energy of 

543
00:26:40,100 --> 00:26:43,400
having seen that and recognizing
that they're all a part of 

544
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:44,400
something special. 
Yeah. 

545
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,100
It's not just a, it's not just 
a, you know, something that 

546
00:26:48,500 --> 00:26:51,500
everyone's going to just forget 
about ya sick, to six months to 

547
00:26:51,500 --> 00:26:53,700
a year. 
It'll be something that that 

548
00:26:53,700 --> 00:26:55,400
they'll be proud of it. 
They'll want to show that 

549
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,300
they'll be like, hey, I was a 
part of this. 

550
00:26:57,300 --> 00:26:59,100
Yeah, let's now I'm gonna show 
my family. 

551
00:26:59,100 --> 00:27:02,100
This Whatever it may be that's 
the best. 

552
00:27:02,100 --> 00:27:04,100
How long was the the shoot on 
Green Knight? 

553
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,500
It was about 50 days. 
Okay, so pretty good. 

554
00:27:08,500 --> 00:27:12,000
Yeah, you know, for an indie 
film that like is is besides up 

555
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,400
there. 
It's up solid amount of time you

556
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,900
bring exactly. 
And I really 20 days more than 

557
00:27:15,900 --> 00:27:17,100
you normally get. 
Totally. 

558
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,300
I really credit James and Toby. 
My producing partner is and who,

559
00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:24,200
you know? 
And yeah, great Edmund Samson, 

560
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,100
our line producer who just like 
understood, like, we're trying 

561
00:27:27,100 --> 00:27:28,800
to do something really ambitious
here. 

562
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,200
Yeah. 
How can we get the most 

563
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,800
on-screen? 
And he was like, he was, he 

564
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,900
would ask me like these hard 
questions being like, could we 

565
00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:37,100
really need to do this as a 
build? 

566
00:27:37,100 --> 00:27:39,500
We find a location? 
Can we shoot closer to Dublin? 

567
00:27:39,900 --> 00:27:43,100
And as a director at the time, 
you're always like it's so 

568
00:27:43,100 --> 00:27:44,300
frustrating. 
I want to build this site. 

569
00:27:44,300 --> 00:27:47,400
We need to make it feel bigger 
or whatever and but in the back 

570
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,300
of my head, I always knew he was
like asking these questions so 

571
00:27:50,300 --> 00:27:52,500
that we could you know, like 
when we were shooting in the 

572
00:27:52,508 --> 00:27:56,300
green Chapel like we went over a
day there because it was just 

573
00:27:56,300 --> 00:27:58,400
there so many setups each stage 
of that sequence. 

574
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,000
It's so long. 
Needed its own little, you know,

575
00:28:01,100 --> 00:28:03,200
own setup own lighting, Q, 
etcetera, Etc. 

576
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,900
And to be able to go to your 
line producer and say, I don't 

577
00:28:05,900 --> 00:28:06,900
think we're going to make our 
day. 

578
00:28:06,900 --> 00:28:08,200
We need to like, add another 
one. 

579
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,200
Him be like, cool. 
I accounted for that. 

580
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,000
That's a great line. 
Producer will do. 

581
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,100
Ah, dude, the unsung heroes. 
I think they often are looked at

582
00:28:15,100 --> 00:28:17,700
as like, the people who say, no 
on set. 

583
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,300
Yeah, but they're not there. 
Other people who are like a good

584
00:28:20,300 --> 00:28:22,400
line, producer, are the ones 
that they're the ones who are 

585
00:28:22,500 --> 00:28:25,200
trying to trying to make sure 
that you're going to get what 

586
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,300
you need and trying to guess 
what, you'll need that. 

587
00:28:27,300 --> 00:28:29,700
You don't know that you need. 
Yeah, because like A lot of 

588
00:28:29,700 --> 00:28:30,500
times you like. 
I don't know. 

589
00:28:30,500 --> 00:28:31,400
I'm going to go over on that 
day. 

590
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:32,800
Or I don't know. 
I'm going to need to reshoot the

591
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,900
scene, but they're just trying 
to guess. 

592
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,000
They're looking ahead at some of
the more complicated days and 

593
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,000
estimating where users could go 
wrong. 

594
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,900
Exactly. 
Where things could go over and 

595
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:42,800
yeah. 
Oh, man. 

596
00:28:42,900 --> 00:28:44,500
Now they're the savior's for 
sure. 

597
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,900
Precisely for sure. 
And how was because you took 

598
00:28:47,900 --> 00:28:51,100
that break obviously, you know, 
you thought you were going to be

599
00:28:51,100 --> 00:28:55,800
releasing Green Knight last year
and then you were also in prep 

600
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,900
for Peter Pan. 
Yeah, so did that. 

601
00:28:58,900 --> 00:29:02,600
That also Took ya Paws is 
weirdly. 

602
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,900
I think we were supposed to 
start shooting Peter Pan and May

603
00:29:04,900 --> 00:29:07,700
19th and Green Knight was 
supposed to open on May 28. 

604
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,800
So it was going to be David. 
And then, what ended up 

605
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,500
happening was was Green. 
Knight opened on July 30th of 

606
00:29:14,500 --> 00:29:16,800
this year, which was like the 
last month of shooting Peter 

607
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,400
Pan. 
So it kind of like inverted 

608
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:19,200
itself. 
Right? 

609
00:29:19,300 --> 00:29:22,900
I mean, we've been working on 
Peter Pan and Wendy since 2016. 

610
00:29:23,100 --> 00:29:25,100
And that was when we're just 
took a while to get the script 

611
00:29:25,100 --> 00:29:27,300
right. 
Took a while for the studio to 

612
00:29:27,300 --> 00:29:29,300
feel like it was the right time 
to make the movie. 

613
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,000
Yep, but then you know when it 
finally like happened it was 

614
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:33,200
like okay, we're making this 
movie. 

615
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,900
Here's the start date for it. 
You know it almost kind of came 

616
00:29:35,900 --> 00:29:38,800
unexpectedly. 
I thought it kind of gone away. 

617
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,000
I thought it was probably not 
going to happen and suddenly we 

618
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,700
got the call from Disney. 
It's like actually won it and 

619
00:29:43,700 --> 00:29:45,100
here's the release date. 
We want to try to hit. 

620
00:29:45,100 --> 00:29:47,600
So let's and of course none of 
that's how it was supposed to 

621
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:48,800
open. 
It was originally supposed to 

622
00:29:48,808 --> 00:29:51,000
open July 30th of this year, 
which is the day Green Knight 

623
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,600
wound up opening. 
So he's like concentric circles 

624
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,900
of like production and release 
and poster all like intermingled

625
00:29:56,900 --> 00:29:59,000
in an almost Cosmic sense. 
That's amazing. 

626
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,500
It was the giant heart. 
There's that photo of Dev. 

627
00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:04,300
Holding that huge heart. 
Oh, yeah. 

628
00:30:04,300 --> 00:30:06,300
Was that from the big bore? 
Yeah. 

629
00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:11,200
So in the poem, okay, Godwin 
spins another like, two days at 

630
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,700
the Lord, and Ladies Castle. 
Okay, and we shot those two 

631
00:30:13,700 --> 00:30:17,600
days, but love that sequence. 
They were just great. 

632
00:30:18,300 --> 00:30:20,400
Once she gives that speech about
the color green. 

633
00:30:20,900 --> 00:30:23,200
Yeah, you kind of are done. 
You don't need any, you don't 

634
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,700
need two more days and that was 
so that wasn't even like those 

635
00:30:26,700 --> 00:30:30,600
were in the edit for like a day.
I It was like, yep, don't need 

636
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,400
those and we're still shooting. 
So we repurpose that bore and 

637
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,400
put it in the seat in the 
background of the scene. 

638
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:37,900
Yeah. 
In the woods just so we would 

639
00:30:37,900 --> 00:30:40,400
have it there because the bore 
is definitely an important 

640
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,100
animal in the poem and I wanted 
to you know, at least nod to 

641
00:30:43,100 --> 00:30:44,900
that. 
Yeah, but we had built this big 

642
00:30:44,900 --> 00:30:49,600
animatronic bore. 
It was fully a vegan dead animal

643
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,200
like all fake fur because I 
always had everything vegan on 

644
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,800
my sets. 
Yeah, and and all the entrails 

645
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,100
were there and the heart and 
what happened in the original 

646
00:30:58,100 --> 00:31:00,400
scene, which I'll probably if we
A special edition Blu-ray, I'll 

647
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,100
put it on there. 
It's a really good scenes that 

648
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,500
Dev walks outside and the board 
is there and like Joel Edgerton 

649
00:31:06,500 --> 00:31:10,000
pops out from the stomach like a
Tauntaun style because he was 

650
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:11,600
just, who's just sitting there 
disemboweling it. 

651
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,000
He's just coated in blood 
shirtless. 

652
00:31:14,500 --> 00:31:16,300
And, and there's all these 
entrails everywhere. 

653
00:31:16,300 --> 00:31:18,500
And it was also funny and really
good. 

654
00:31:18,500 --> 00:31:21,800
But again, like we just that 
scene, fell away, very very 

655
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,300
quiet. 
It sounds like a great comic bit

656
00:31:24,300 --> 00:31:25,700
of levity. 
It was hilarious. 

657
00:31:25,700 --> 00:31:29,300
I mean, Joel, Joel knows how to 
like own those. 

658
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:30,600
Oh, it's so thoroughly. 
Yeah. 

659
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,000
Yeah, he was cracking us up. 
Oh my God. 

660
00:31:33,100 --> 00:31:35,300
That's awesome. 
Yeah, so somewhere in Ireland, 

661
00:31:35,300 --> 00:31:38,800
that's still there's the giant 
animatronic dead bore that it 

662
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,800
and nobody kept the heart. 
I think it's all everything's in

663
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:44,400
storage. 
I've got the puppets. 

664
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,200
Okay. 
The from the puppet show. 

665
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,400
Holy shit, really? 
And I've do you have the the 

666
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,500
actual set for it as well. 
That's in storage. 

667
00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:53,000
Okay? 
Yeah, because that would be a 

668
00:31:53,008 --> 00:31:54,400
pretty amazing thing to have in 
your home. 

669
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,400
I'm starting to get to the point
now where I'm like, I need props

670
00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,900
for my movies because at first I
was like, nah, Really too 

671
00:31:59,900 --> 00:32:01,300
concerned. 
My movies didn't have that, you 

672
00:32:01,300 --> 00:32:03,100
know, the props were in that 
special, any of it. 

673
00:32:03,100 --> 00:32:05,300
You're making a lot of movies 
with that with a lot of props. 

674
00:32:05,300 --> 00:32:08,000
So starting, starting starting 
with green night. 

675
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:09,500
I started like, okay. 
I need to, like, just steal 

676
00:32:09,500 --> 00:32:11,100
these away. 
And then I'm Peter Pan. 

677
00:32:11,100 --> 00:32:13,900
I'd definitely rated the prop 
truck at the end of the shoot. 

678
00:32:13,900 --> 00:32:16,700
I've got a bunch of stuff. 
Oh, I can imagine, but where do 

679
00:32:16,700 --> 00:32:19,000
you keep that stuff? 
It's going to get tricky. 

680
00:32:19,100 --> 00:32:23,600
Well, one thing we've got is we 
put the Green Knights face on 

681
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,700
one of the cannon ports on the 
boat, on Captain Hook's ship. 

682
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,200
So, like when the Cannons would 
pop out, like the little port 

683
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,100
Doors open and they all have 
faces on them. 

684
00:32:31,100 --> 00:32:32,100
And so, the Green Knight was one
of those. 

685
00:32:32,100 --> 00:32:34,800
I've got that it's hanging in my
garden in the in the back of my 

686
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,200
house. 
Now that's rad and then I've got

687
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,900
like various other things. 
I can't it's gonna get into 

688
00:32:41,900 --> 00:32:43,200
spoilers, huh? 
Talking about it. 

689
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,900
But but but they're all, they're
all accumulating in my office. 

690
00:32:45,900 --> 00:32:47,900
And I'm like, now they realize, 
I need to get some shelves, 

691
00:32:47,900 --> 00:32:50,900
built to actually display these 
things rather than just having 

692
00:32:50,900 --> 00:32:53,800
them sitting around. 
Did you, you said you're in your

693
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,500
life, your wife moved back to 
Texas. 

694
00:32:55,500 --> 00:32:57,400
Where did you live prior? 
Did you live somewhere else? 

695
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:58,700
We were living here in La you 
another? 

696
00:32:58,700 --> 00:33:01,100
Yeah. 
And then, you know, that was 

697
00:33:01,100 --> 00:33:04,800
following a year living in New 
Zealand, which it happily 

698
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:06,800
retired in? 
Not time everyone to retire, but

699
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,400
I think he shot Pete's Dragon. 
Yeah, right. 

700
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,300
Was that an Auckland? 
We were based in Wellington 

701
00:33:12,300 --> 00:33:14,100
until you were basically, we 
were stomach Street. 

702
00:33:14,100 --> 00:33:16,500
Okay, right. 
And I'll see you had, you had a 

703
00:33:16,508 --> 00:33:19,500
very comparable experience. 
Well, in the sense of wonder 

704
00:33:19,500 --> 00:33:23,200
that you were there, yeah, we 
literally felt like, you know, 

705
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,100
we felt like we were part of 
that Community, camperdown 

706
00:33:25,100 --> 00:33:27,600
Studios the whole thing. 
Wow, so we started off in. 

707
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:32,400
Wellington went up to To Rotorua
for half seven weeks and then 

708
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,500
went down to the South Island to
this tiny town called tapping 

709
00:33:35,500 --> 00:33:38,200
Nuit, which is close to Dunedin.
It was the most beautiful 

710
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:43,800
experience because we is a town 
of about 750 people and we 

711
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:49,000
basically just moved in and we, 
we all lived at, you know, the 

712
00:33:49,300 --> 00:33:51,400
homes of the inhabitants of this
town. 

713
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,800
We just moved in that town. 
Yeah, everyone worked on the 

714
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,700
movie as either extras or 
helping with catering. 

715
00:33:56,700 --> 00:33:58,900
It was like whenever you make a 
movie like we talked early about

716
00:33:58,900 --> 00:34:02,100
the the Idea of community, we 
able to like take this entire 

717
00:34:02,100 --> 00:34:05,500
town that we had moved into and 
involve them in the movie and a 

718
00:34:05,500 --> 00:34:08,500
really, I believe like healthy 
and positive way. 

719
00:34:08,500 --> 00:34:11,900
Oh, that's beautiful. 
And I think, you know, everyone 

720
00:34:11,900 --> 00:34:14,199
was so proud to be a part of it 
because we're finished with the 

721
00:34:14,207 --> 00:34:15,699
movie. 
We went back into Premiere in 

722
00:34:15,699 --> 00:34:19,400
Auckland, which is great. 
And then one in Wellington and 

723
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,699
then we went to tap a new, we 
did one down there and there's 

724
00:34:21,699 --> 00:34:23,500
no movie theater there. 
So, we did it in the high school

725
00:34:23,500 --> 00:34:25,699
gymnasium. 
Oh, that's so lovely. 

726
00:34:25,699 --> 00:34:28,000
And everyone came in and it was 
the most. 

727
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,800
I mean, of all the Movie. 
I don't really enjoy going to 

728
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:32,900
movie premieres come to 
self-conscious, but that 111 

729
00:34:32,900 --> 00:34:35,800
either that one was one of the 
best experiences in my life to 

730
00:34:35,808 --> 00:34:37,500
just cook because everybody's 
going to Premiere in the 

731
00:34:37,500 --> 00:34:39,699
traditional sense. 
That was literally a screening 

732
00:34:39,699 --> 00:34:42,800
for the community. 
Exactly, exactly how beautiful. 

733
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,100
They put up a little plaque in 
the town where David that's in 

734
00:34:46,107 --> 00:34:47,800
the alleyway, where Pete gets 
caught. 

735
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,300
And I, you know, that's so cool.
I mean back to New Zealand a few

736
00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:54,000
times since then and have not 
made a bag of tap annuity, but 

737
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,400
at some point, I really want to 
go back and, and just like, walk

738
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,200
down those streets again. 
Oh, that's amazing. 

739
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,600
Zing New Zealand is really 
special in that way. 

740
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,900
You know, when we were making 
rings that that same thing rang 

741
00:35:05,900 --> 00:35:10,400
true for us to where you would 
take over little tiny towns and 

742
00:35:10,700 --> 00:35:13,300
we would knock on people's doors
to ask if we could use their 

743
00:35:13,300 --> 00:35:15,000
land. 
I mean, yeah, it's very and 

744
00:35:15,100 --> 00:35:17,300
there's this sense of the 
country feeling like they were 

745
00:35:17,300 --> 00:35:20,200
participating in it. 
And certainly the cruise. 

746
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,000
I'm sure you can relate. 
I think some of the best crews 

747
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,000
in the world are in New Zealand,
indeed. 

748
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:30,000
There's a sort of, there's a 
cultural sense of Of like 

749
00:35:30,100 --> 00:35:33,000
pulling up your bootstraps and 
just getting stuck into work. 

750
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:38,100
Just wanting to help at whatever
their station and, you know, on 

751
00:35:38,100 --> 00:35:41,100
Rings, the, the woman that would
pick me up in the morning was 

752
00:35:41,100 --> 00:35:43,500
also a stand-in. 
Would also do reproduction 

753
00:35:43,500 --> 00:35:45,300
running. 
There was just this sense of 

754
00:35:45,300 --> 00:35:49,100
like I'll help with whatever and
that was across the board at 

755
00:35:49,100 --> 00:35:52,300
every level and that's 
incredibly inspiring to be 

756
00:35:52,300 --> 00:35:56,900
around and it feels like 
everybody has a part to play. 

757
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,200
Yep, everybody. 
Everybody's job is me. 

758
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,300
Thankful and is contributing to 
the larger thing. 

759
00:36:02,700 --> 00:36:05,800
And I've never, I've certainly 
felt that another other films 

760
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,300
for sure outside of New Zealand,
but none quite like it, it is 

761
00:36:09,300 --> 00:36:11,300
there. 
It's very special and and 

762
00:36:11,300 --> 00:36:12,900
there's a sense of the quality 
of life. 

763
00:36:12,900 --> 00:36:15,300
There, the dance floor and 
everybody, and I think we're 

764
00:36:15,300 --> 00:36:18,400
about to see a sea change in the
US with that with what's going 

765
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:19,800
on with a Otzi. 
We have great. 

766
00:36:19,900 --> 00:36:22,100
Yes, it is. 
Because you go to New Zealand 

767
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,500
and the same goes in Ireland 
where people would rather go 

768
00:36:25,500 --> 00:36:28,300
home to have dinner with their 
families than get paid overtime.

769
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:33,000
I wanted to ask Do you like one 
of the things I've loved 

770
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,700
watching is like the movies, 
you're making the choice, you're

771
00:36:35,700 --> 00:36:40,000
doing making both as a as an 
actor and as a producer is a 

772
00:36:40,008 --> 00:36:43,200
deep love of genre. 
Yeah, and as someone who were 

773
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,700
talking in October, I'm just 
mainlining horror movies, left 

774
00:36:45,700 --> 00:36:47,600
and right right now. 
Because that's what I do all 

775
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:48,900
year round, but, especially in 
October. 

776
00:36:48,900 --> 00:36:50,800
Sure. 
Yeah, is that always been your 

777
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,200
favorite genre has that been 
something you've been drawn to I

778
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:54,900
think so. 
I mean, since I was pretty 

779
00:36:54,900 --> 00:36:57,200
young, you know, we're I think 
we're the same age. 

780
00:36:57,300 --> 00:37:01,200
Yeah, I was born in 81. 
I think you're December of 880. 

781
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,400
So yeah, so I, you know, I 
haven't I have an older brother.

782
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,900
So he's about seven years older 
than me, and he was watching 

783
00:37:09,900 --> 00:37:12,200
horror movies, like renting 
horror movies from the local 

784
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,500
video store with his friends 
when I was five six and seven. 

785
00:37:15,500 --> 00:37:20,200
Yeah, and so he would, you know,
unbeknownst to my mother and 

786
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,700
father, show me these horror 
movies and I love them 

787
00:37:22,700 --> 00:37:24,000
immediately. 
I didn't it didn't really 

788
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,400
freaked me out. 
I just it's that thing of you 

789
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,600
know, when you're young it's the
forbidden fruit. is the thing 

790
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,400
you're not supposed to watch but
you're so excited to watch it 

791
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,100
invariably because it's the 
thing you're not supposed to and

792
00:37:35,100 --> 00:37:38,600
I loved it and the older I got 
the more I watched and the more 

793
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:44,800
I loved and then when I thought 
about because I I've loved the 

794
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:49,200
process of filmmaking forever 
and the older I got the more I 

795
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,000
wanted to be involved in 
filmmaking in a more proactive 

796
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:57,200
way and to provide a platform 
for other filmmakers and stories

797
00:37:57,500 --> 00:38:00,700
seeing something from the sort 
of Action point on through. 

798
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,500
So the idea to sort of start a 
production company came about 

799
00:38:05,500 --> 00:38:08,300
and I thought, well, there's 
that's, that's these are the 

800
00:38:08,308 --> 00:38:10,300
kinds of movies that I will. 
Ya silat 8. 

801
00:38:10,300 --> 00:38:14,400
And at the time, my producing 
partners and I we kind of bonded

802
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,300
on this shared, mutual love of 
genre and this is, you know, ten

803
00:38:18,300 --> 00:38:20,800
years ago. 
So really before the Renaissance

804
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,100
that were currently still in at 
the time, you know, the films 

805
00:38:24,100 --> 00:38:28,000
that we loved were being made 
largely in Europe, you know Let 

806
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:33,300
the Right One In The orphanage, 
you know, inside out of France. 

807
00:38:33,300 --> 00:38:35,100
Yeah, the Future Extreme. 
Oh my God. 

808
00:38:35,100 --> 00:38:36,800
That such an incredible series 
of films. 

809
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,500
They're Martyrs is so great. 
So there were, there were 

810
00:38:40,500 --> 00:38:43,600
certainly exceptions to the rule
in the US, but the US was 

811
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,500
predominantly still kind of 
mired in torture porn. 

812
00:38:47,500 --> 00:38:50,900
And I don't think the occasional
remake like you'd have, like, 

813
00:38:50,900 --> 00:38:52,800
the initial black Christmas 
remake. 

814
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:54,300
Sure. 
Like these sort of reboots and 

815
00:38:54,308 --> 00:38:56,700
things, but you know, but then 
you'd have something like, you 

816
00:38:56,700 --> 00:38:58,900
know, Ty West's house, the devil
would pop up. 

817
00:38:58,900 --> 00:39:01,500
So, the Were these really 
wonderful examples of great 

818
00:39:01,500 --> 00:39:04,000
genre, but there wasn't, it 
didn't seem at the time that 

819
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,700
there was a place for it. 
So, we were just kind of talking

820
00:39:06,700 --> 00:39:10,000
and thinking about it, and let's
create a plat. 

821
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,400
Let's create a space for this. 
Like let's reach out to 

822
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:18,300
filmmakers that we love and try 
and, you know, allow them to 

823
00:39:18,300 --> 00:39:21,100
create a, you know, a space to 
make the kinds of movies that we

824
00:39:21,100 --> 00:39:26,100
love to see and that's how Mandy
came about, you know, very 

825
00:39:26,100 --> 00:39:29,100
organically, loving Beyond the 
Black rainbow. 

826
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,000
Bow and thinking will do 
anything just to provide a 

827
00:39:32,008 --> 00:39:33,400
platform for whatever. 
Yeah. 

828
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,000
Pano's wants to do now. 
Yep. 

829
00:39:35,700 --> 00:39:39,900
And as you know, genre is, it's 
funny because horror tends to 

830
00:39:39,900 --> 00:39:41,800
get less. 
So now because I feel like 

831
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:46,000
there's a, an acceptance of 
horror and the larger sense as 

832
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:50,000
an actual art form. 
It tent, you know, it depends on

833
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,000
who you're talking to it. 
Horror over the years tends to 

834
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:57,100
get denigrated to the sort of be
level, and it doesn't often get 

835
00:39:57,100 --> 00:40:00,400
to sort of join the larger. 
Conversation, although I think 

836
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,700
that has largely changed its 
when it reaches the, a level 

837
00:40:03,700 --> 00:40:05,300
people say, well, it's not 
really a horrible. 

838
00:40:05,300 --> 00:40:07,800
That's exactly help than those 
conversation starts. 

839
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,200
It's not really horror, which is
such bullshit elevated horror. 

840
00:40:11,500 --> 00:40:13,400
No, it's just, it's horror 
exactly. 

841
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,800
But you and I both know that it 
is the thing. 

842
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,100
That's so wonderful about genre 
from a filmmaking perspective, 

843
00:40:20,100 --> 00:40:25,500
is that it all bets are off. 
Like, it allows you so many, so 

844
00:40:25,500 --> 00:40:31,400
much creative freedom that a 
traditional Drama or traditional

845
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,700
comedy or what have you doesn't 
necessarily afford. 

846
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,800
You can really play with Cinema 
in a way that is accepted in in 

847
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,600
horror genre that you probably 
wouldn't get away with as much 

848
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,200
otherwise. 
And so great filmmakers get 

849
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,100
their start and genre because 
they can flex and try things 

850
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:52,100
that work within the sort of 
Fantastical realm and I just 

851
00:40:52,100 --> 00:40:54,400
love that. 
There's so much room for really 

852
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,900
exciting artistic choices and 
genre that you don't often get 

853
00:40:57,900 --> 00:41:03,500
to see otherwise and As you have
that room to throw the rules 

854
00:41:03,500 --> 00:41:04,600
out, so to speak. 
Yeah. 

855
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,200
Can actually illuminate, 
whatever thematic content. 

856
00:41:07,300 --> 00:41:09,900
More closely more clearly and it
will resonate and people will 

857
00:41:09,900 --> 00:41:13,600
actually absorb it more like you
actually will take it in whereas

858
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,200
if you were just no shade. 
I'm dramas. 

859
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,900
Like I love a great dropping. 
Yes, but if you have a movie 

860
00:41:18,900 --> 00:41:23,000
that maybe feels a little bit 
like homework and not to say 

861
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,000
movie will feel like homework, 
but like a movie that feels like

862
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,600
it's just a straight drama. 
It's harder to sometimes get 

863
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:32,300
people. 
To embrace the message that 

864
00:41:32,300 --> 00:41:36,100
you're trying to convey here is,
if you can get that message, you

865
00:41:36,100 --> 00:41:39,000
know, to seep out through the 
floorboards of a horror movie. 

866
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,700
Yeah, it actually will people 
will carry it with them longer. 

867
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,900
Yeah, that's why get out was 
such a huge hit that. 

868
00:41:45,900 --> 00:41:47,500
I mean, that's that's the movie 
that sort of I think it's 

869
00:41:47,500 --> 00:41:48,600
changed things. 
Yeah. 

870
00:41:48,700 --> 00:41:50,000
To a large extent. 
Yes. 

871
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:55,600
And look, you know great horror 
films are often in my opinion, 

872
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,100
the best horror films. 
You can remove the genre 

873
00:41:58,100 --> 00:42:00,600
elements and still have it. 
Telling story because at their 

874
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:05,700
heart, they are trying to say. 
So yeah, hereditary is a horror 

875
00:42:05,700 --> 00:42:08,200
movie. 
But if you take the, the sort of

876
00:42:09,700 --> 00:42:15,300
the demon aspect out of that, 
it's a it's a family trauma 

877
00:42:15,300 --> 00:42:16,000
film. 
Yep. 

878
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,900
It's a, it's a film about a 
family that's falling apart. 

879
00:42:19,300 --> 00:42:23,000
You know what I mean lately? 
And I think to me, I think the 

880
00:42:23,008 --> 00:42:25,900
best genre has to, has to work 
in both ways. 

881
00:42:25,900 --> 00:42:27,600
Yeah. 
I don't think you can. 

882
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,800
I mean, certainly you can Plenty
of horror films, just rest on 

883
00:42:31,900 --> 00:42:33,900
the sort of exploitable 
elements, and their fun. 

884
00:42:33,900 --> 00:42:38,200
And we'll eat those up like 
candy, but the best ones you can

885
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,900
remove those elements. 
And there's, there's a real 

886
00:42:40,900 --> 00:42:43,200
story happening. 
There's something, there's an 

887
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:47,200
engine that doesn't need to rely
on the horror aspects, you know,

888
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,500
and I love that. 
I was like, I don't know if you 

889
00:42:49,508 --> 00:42:51,900
listen to the podcast unspooled 
with Paul Scheer naming on 

890
00:42:51,900 --> 00:42:52,900
Nicholson. 
I know it. 

891
00:42:52,900 --> 00:42:57,000
Yeah, they're just The Exorcist 
talking about how like for the 

892
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:01,200
first like 90 minutes. 
It's about a About a movie star.

893
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:02,700
Yeah. 
Dealing with like public 

894
00:43:02,700 --> 00:43:04,600
perceptions of having a 
daughter. 

895
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,200
Who's like, troubled. 
Yes, and it's like, well, yes. 

896
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:08,800
And maybe being slightly 
neglectful. 

897
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,100
Exactly. 
Yes, and that like, you never 

898
00:43:11,100 --> 00:43:12,600
think about that, but we 
watching the movie. 

899
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,000
It's like, oh yeah, that is like
there's a lot of emphasis put on

900
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,400
that and if there's a great 
Morty, minutes of it. 

901
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:19,400
Yeah. 
It's kind of amazed it is. 

902
00:43:19,500 --> 00:43:23,200
But the movies also about faith 
and it's, it's about so many 

903
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,600
other things indeed, and it's 
also terrifying and, you know, 

904
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,000
and that's why it's a classic. 
Yeah. 

905
00:43:29,100 --> 00:43:30,900
It's every one of those things 
perfectly. 

906
00:43:30,900 --> 00:43:34,400
Exactly. 
Yeah, so it's it's a space that 

907
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:36,600
I feel like I'll always want to 
play in. 

908
00:43:37,100 --> 00:43:40,200
I also feel like some of the 
most exciting new voices and 

909
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,500
film were often making genre 
films. 

910
00:43:42,500 --> 00:43:46,300
I agree, you know, they they hit
hard there, impactful their 

911
00:43:46,300 --> 00:43:53,200
bold, you know, again really 
wild choices are able to land 

912
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,600
because of the vessel that 
they're that they're being 

913
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:59,000
presented and it's a pretty 
exciting time to be a filmmaker.

914
00:43:59,300 --> 00:44:02,800
It's certainly an exciting time 
to be a fan of film because 

915
00:44:03,300 --> 00:44:06,200
there's just, there's so many. 
There's so many incredible 

916
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:10,200
voices and platforms for those 
voices, to be heard and walls, 

917
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:14,300
are being broken all the time. 
The sort of like the typical 

918
00:44:14,300 --> 00:44:19,100
Avenues, which kind of create 
dividing lines are kind of 

919
00:44:19,100 --> 00:44:21,300
falling apart. 
The completely are initially, 

920
00:44:21,300 --> 00:44:25,000
especially, you know, as 
streaming in cinema become like 

921
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:26,100
Inseparable. 
Totally. 

922
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,200
I mean, one of my favorite 
things to do especially in 

923
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,800
October is to Randomly watch 
shutter Originals because 

924
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:32,600
letters. 
So great. 

925
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,800
It's the best that line and you 
never know what you're going to 

926
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,900
get because like they put out a 
lot of movies, they dimmed, and 

927
00:44:38,900 --> 00:44:40,800
I'll just like, click like beach
house, was one of my favorite 

928
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:42,200
movies last year. 
I haven't seen. 

929
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,800
It was so good. 
And it was like, I was like, 

930
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:46,500
I'll just try this out. 
So you see how it feels. 

931
00:44:46,500 --> 00:44:47,700
It's kind of like going to a 
film festival. 

932
00:44:47,700 --> 00:44:49,000
Is kind of like going to a film 
festival. 

933
00:44:49,100 --> 00:44:50,500
Yeah. 
Going to the midnight movies at 

934
00:44:50,500 --> 00:44:51,900
a film festival. 
Sure, you know, you're gonna see

935
00:44:51,900 --> 00:44:54,800
something, genre adjacent at the
very least. 

936
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,400
Yeah, and hopefully it's going 
to be good and you have no idea 

937
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,000
what to expect and that's what 
you get. 

938
00:44:59,300 --> 00:45:00,900
Watch this thing. 
That's so fun. 

939
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:02,500
Do you have a horror film in 
you? 

940
00:45:02,900 --> 00:45:04,700
I do. 
I don't know what it is yet. 

941
00:45:04,700 --> 00:45:08,200
But I mean, it is my favorite 
genre and my movies, keep 

942
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:09,900
participating in like the 
language of it. 

943
00:45:09,900 --> 00:45:12,800
They totally do without actually
like fully embracing it. 

944
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:16,100
But some point, you know, it's 
on my it's high in my to do 

945
00:45:16,100 --> 00:45:18,900
list, hot much higher than glass
matte paintings. 

946
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,100
I would love to see you make a 
horror film. 

947
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:25,000
It's a it's I want to make, I 
get scared, very easily. 

948
00:45:25,100 --> 00:45:27,800
Do you? 
And I always have liked as much 

949
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,500
as I love horror films by By the
films themselves by the films 

950
00:45:30,500 --> 00:45:34,400
themselves, like, I watch movies
with my, like, doing the like 

951
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,400
the Vulcan hand signal half. 
Horizontally over my eyes so I 

952
00:45:37,408 --> 00:45:40,200
can quickly like, close it. 
If it gets too scary. 

953
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:42,100
Yeah. 
My goal is to make a movie where

954
00:45:42,100 --> 00:45:45,200
like, I don't want to be in the 
mix because I'm too scared. 

955
00:45:45,700 --> 00:45:48,700
That's that's right. 
When we get to that is a very 

956
00:45:48,700 --> 00:45:51,200
good goal. 
I want I want to make me forget 

957
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,400
to keep all the lights on when 
we're mixing where you're 

958
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,800
terrified of your own deal. 
Exactly. 

959
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,500
I want to see that movie. 
I don't know how to pull that 

960
00:45:58,500 --> 00:46:00,500
off, but that's Go. 
That's like that's a high 

961
00:46:00,500 --> 00:46:02,100
watermark for me. 
That's awesome. 

962
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:04,800
And I feel like we could talk 
all day because we also didn't 

963
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,200
touch on your experience at 
Skywalker and how unbelievably 

964
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:10,500
special that plays is. 
I got, I got to go. 

965
00:46:10,500 --> 00:46:13,600
So I've been I've been once or 
twice for for screenings, but 

966
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,000
but just for the day, right 
you're going to see a movie and 

967
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:21,000
then bouncing and it's so 
exceptional that entire piece of

968
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,200
land, the building's everything 
about it, but I'd never stayed 

969
00:46:24,700 --> 00:46:30,400
and about a year ago my fiance 
He had produced a movie that was

970
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,200
being mixed there. 
So we were invited to come up to

971
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,000
see a screening and the 
screening kept getting moved. 

972
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,400
So we stayed what was going to 
be one night ended up being 

973
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,300
three nights. 
So we have this experience of 

974
00:46:41,300 --> 00:46:43,200
like kind of living there for a 
minute. 

975
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,200
Riding the bikes around pure 
magic. 

976
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,300
It is it's and and you don't get
good cell service there snow. 

977
00:46:49,300 --> 00:46:51,100
We feel disconnected. 
You do it. 

978
00:46:51,100 --> 00:46:55,100
Takes so long to get into town 
that you just you don't leave 

979
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,300
and there's so much history, 
especially as someone who grew 

980
00:46:58,300 --> 00:47:02,400
up just Over ilm and lucasfilm 
and it's not like the archives 

981
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:04,900
are they have a couple of props 
but it's really just like to 

982
00:47:04,900 --> 00:47:08,200
know that that's where those 
movies were in septic. 

983
00:47:08,300 --> 00:47:12,100
And and, and so much my own 
cinematic history was birthed 

984
00:47:12,100 --> 00:47:14,400
there. 
Yeah, it also has an incredible 

985
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,800
George. 
His poster collection is out of 

986
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:22,000
this world. 
Like that was such a revelation.

987
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:27,900
Ignited, a single building has 
any number of posters that he's 

988
00:47:27,900 --> 00:47:30,100
collected and is that 
represents? 

989
00:47:30,100 --> 00:47:33,800
I think the Skywalker Ranch 
represents only a fraction of 

990
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,300
what he has because he's also 
got buildings in various other 

991
00:47:36,300 --> 00:47:39,900
places that also have his 
posters but it is an exceptional

992
00:47:39,900 --> 00:47:42,400
collection. 
It ignited a little like poster 

993
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,200
collecting side me when I went 
there was like, oh I need to 

994
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:46,900
start doing the me to yeah. 
Me too. 

995
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,200
Got a couple big French grants 
that have no room for my have. 

996
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:52,700
You haven't gone there yet. 
Haven't gone there yet. 

997
00:47:53,100 --> 00:47:56,600
I just got Bruce ons, Lancelot, 
duloc related, to the Green 

998
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:57,600
Knight. 
It's one of my favorite are 

999
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,000
three movies. 
I just got a very I've not seen 

1000
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,200
that home. 
It's not really available right 

1001
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,800
now. 
Okay, I think I'd heard rumors 

1002
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:06,900
that Criterion was going to put 
it out, but I saw it. 

1003
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:08,600
It was, I mean, there's 
out-of-print. 

1004
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:11,300
DVDs of it. 
Okay, and you can get it on eBay

1005
00:48:11,300 --> 00:48:13,800
on VHS, but it's, it's a contra,
what year? 

1006
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,100
He made it. 
But it's a very brisk sounion. 

1007
00:48:16,100 --> 00:48:18,800
Take on Arthurian Lawrence about
Lancelot in his Affairs 

1008
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:20,500
Guinevere. 
And it's fantastic. 

1009
00:48:20,500 --> 00:48:23,800
And it has one of my, well, 
maybe my all-time favorite movie

1010
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:27,200
poster that and the original 
poster for possession was the 

1011
00:48:27,207 --> 00:48:28,900
last piece, which is like a 
gorgon. 

1012
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:30,700
On like it's like almost like a 
Medusa. 

1013
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:31,600
Yes. 
Yes. 

1014
00:48:31,900 --> 00:48:36,000
Yes, sort of figure similar to 
the repulsion poster but not 

1015
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:37,900
quite anyway. 
That those two are. 

1016
00:48:38,100 --> 00:48:40,700
I need to get that one. 
But now I've got the purse on 

1017
00:48:40,700 --> 00:48:43,100
one. 
I love the Polish movie posters 

1018
00:48:43,100 --> 00:48:44,800
to. 
And there was one that I'd never

1019
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,000
seen. 
That was at Skywalker. 

1020
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,900
So at one of the screening rooms
that they that they one of the 

1021
00:48:50,900 --> 00:48:52,900
big screening rooms. 
I can't remember the name of it 

1022
00:48:53,300 --> 00:48:56,100
in the hallway. 
There was a poster for Dirty 

1023
00:48:56,100 --> 00:48:59,900
Dancing of all things, amazing, 
and it's Back and you see a 

1024
00:48:59,900 --> 00:49:04,000
strip of a leg. 
It's so evocative and beautiful 

1025
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,200
and doesn't feel like the kind 
of, you know, the traditional 

1026
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:08,900
poster for that is is what it 
is. 

1027
00:49:08,900 --> 00:49:11,900
It's the two actors and this is 
sort of this very dark 

1028
00:49:11,900 --> 00:49:14,700
impressionistic piece. 
That's just a beautiful piece of

1029
00:49:14,700 --> 00:49:17,700
art on in and of itself. 
That's awesome. 

1030
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,700
I got my wife. 
A Japanese Showgirls poster for 

1031
00:49:20,700 --> 00:49:22,500
her birthday last year. 
What does that look like? 

1032
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,900
It's gorgeous. 
Like it's absolutely beautiful 

1033
00:49:24,900 --> 00:49:27,400
like this. 
This like beautiful painting of 

1034
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,700
Elizabeth Berkley like sort of 
sitting I'm like with her arms 

1035
00:49:29,700 --> 00:49:32,300
crossed over. 
It's a very like their American 

1036
00:49:32,300 --> 00:49:34,800
posters all about, like, that's 
that leg coming through the 

1037
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:36,200
screen. 
So yeah, like come see us. 

1038
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:38,900
This one's very like, it's the 
opposite of that like we're 

1039
00:49:38,900 --> 00:49:43,300
saying like this is a damaged 
person who is, you know, you 

1040
00:49:43,300 --> 00:49:45,500
shouldn't be looking at her. 
Like right now, it's a very 

1041
00:49:45,500 --> 00:49:48,700
intimate and very, it's a 
completely different, take on 

1042
00:49:48,700 --> 00:49:49,600
that movie. 
And the post. 

1043
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:52,400
It's like all red and it's just 
absolutely gorgeous. 

1044
00:49:52,500 --> 00:49:55,000
Oh, that's rad. 
Yeah, it's we're Big Show Girls 

1045
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:56,900
fans. 
So that movies incredible. 

1046
00:49:56,900 --> 00:49:58,500
It's incredible. 
It is incredible. 

1047
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:03,500
I think we have to wrap it up, 
David indeed, and keep going. 

1048
00:50:03,500 --> 00:50:06,300
I had some perfect closing 
statement about 30 minutes ago 

1049
00:50:06,300 --> 00:50:07,700
that I know now forgotten what 
it is. 

1050
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:11,100
Oh, no, I was like I know how to
bring this all full circle back.

1051
00:50:11,100 --> 00:50:13,600
Don't remember what it is. 
So but up in a beautiful boat. 

1052
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:15,700
Exactly, but we can leave it 
open-ended. 

1053
00:50:15,700 --> 00:50:17,500
Yeah. 
And say to be continued to be 

1054
00:50:17,500 --> 00:50:19,600
continued. 
This has been really lovely and 

1055
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:21,100
just really nice to reconnect as
well. 

1056
00:50:21,100 --> 00:50:22,600
So, great. 
And I feel like there's still so

1057
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,600
much for us to talk about 
offline, but we'll go do that. 

1058
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:29,300
Yeah, and maybe this will, since
we did spend a lot of Time, 

1059
00:50:29,300 --> 00:50:33,000
maybe we will also get an 
extended extended edition, 

1060
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,200
extended, bonus, episode fingers
crossed. 

1061
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:38,000
Thanks, dude. 
Awesome. 

1062
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:43,000
Thanks a lot. 
Thanks for listening. 

1063
00:50:43,700 --> 00:50:47,900
The 824 podcast is produced by 
us a 24 special. 

1064
00:50:47,900 --> 00:50:51,100
Thanks to our editor Tom Wyatt 
and robot repair who composed 

1065
00:50:51,100 --> 00:50:51,600
our theme.