Hey and welcome back to the 824 podcast.
Today's guest became best friends in 2007 while traveling
the world together on the marathon, press tour for
Superbad in the 12 years since Jonah Hill and Michael Cera have
stayed close as their careers continue to expand a new
directions this past year Jonah made his incredible filmmaking
debut with mid 90s. Well, Michael Cera has further
established himself as a formidable Broadway actor
earning Raves for his performance in kind of
lonergan's play the Waverly Gallery despite their busy.
We help them find an hour to sit down and finally catch up.
We're starting right now. I'm Jonah Hill.
I'm Michael Cera. This is Michael Cera and we've
been friends for almost 12 years, maybe even longer now.
Yeah, maybe 13 years. When do you consider our
friendship starting? That's the question.
I consider it starting. I think halfway through shooting
may be super bad. That's when you consider the
start now, that's when I felt like, oh you really love me.
Well I felt Earlier, you did. Yeah.
I felt during the we should start by saying we were in a
movie called super bad together. Let's give a lot of context.
Yeah, we'll go back. We are anybody who choose it
like goes out of the way to listen to this.
I think doesn't need too much. How do these two chaps know one
another like who's just randomly listening to what a weird
combination of people to throw together for a podcast, but we
were told when we both got the part that we Judd Apatow made us
hang out because only directed was really Hang out become
friends. We obviously had this like this
movie that like stuck around for a long time.
But we also went through something very similar at the
same time together very unique like a super unique experience
at the same time. They being what just like being
in a movie like one day like I'm young people from one day to the
next president velopment, but it was still very like, yeah, we'd
go to Canter's and if you like some nerd like us being like
hey, you're awesome on Arrested Development.
He'd be like, thanks and his children.
And then we are in this movie and then the day after it came
out very different very different.
And what was awesome though. Was that right as it came out
here and things were very like gnarly in that way.
They sent us to other countries together you mean Chris?
Yeah, and that's what I remember like the tour of that is what we
you and I always end up talking about housing.
They didn't like us in Italy. No, no and Spain Spain.
They didn't like us. Well it was I don't know if it
was they didn't like us but member they the post away
Marketed, it was the funniest thing of all time.
Yeah, they never tell a story porno.
There's like bras hanging off in the lifestyle super, sweetest,
which is super horny. Yeah, that's always really
weird. It's called super horny.
And if you look at our faces on the poster and you put the timer
for the poster was its just oh, yeah.
No. No, this is crazy.
Okay, so they so Emma Stone's character in Spain.
They were like really trying to make comedy american comedies
like we were like, okay, we can break an American Comedy in
Spain, which I guess doesn't happen or didn't happen at that
time. So they hired a very famous
actress to be Emma's voice. Yeah.
She's doing the voice dubbing voice dubbing for Emma Stone's
character in Superbad. And then the poster was her the
not Emma was the famous actress in Spain photoshopped in
photoshopped in not Emma Stone, even though she was just a voice
and then between her legs were me Michael and Lisa is like
looking out drooling like Drew and of course you're horny.
It's called super horny. We're driving around Spain.
Like what the fuck's sake. This is so weird and not and
Italy in the scene where we're like cuddling and sleeping bags.
They started like hissing. Yeah, they're like and the and
know also is amazing is we first got to hear our voices?
Yeah, like the dumped over there is a caste.
I still keep in touch with my the guy who dubbed me David.
Do you remember him? He was four feet tall and long.
Long red hair down to his ass he wrote around Rome on a moped and
he was like, I had never met one of my actors.
I've been doing Elijah Wood since Radio Flyer and then
member the moped he was right. Like we saw these people
cruising through traffic on the mopeds, and he was one of these
guys and I was like, aren't you scared to get hit by a car?
And he was like, I'm very afraid for my life.
That is so fucked up but talking about like things changing in a
weird way overnight. I remember something that
happened when super right when Superbad came out was a few
months before it came out a friend of mine this girl at
Nicole had a birthday party where I grew up, you know in
like some grab gymnasium in Brampton.
She like rented it out and a bunch of friends got in there
and hung out for the night. Yeah, and that's kind of cool
birthday party. Yeah.
It was nice. It was like all my high school
friends. We just graduated and
everything. But so there was this girl
Melinda de That I Used to Know hours.
I guess hanging out with her talking with her over the course
of the evening and then like a little later in the night.
This guy comes up to me and he's like trying to kick my ass like
in a blind rage. He's drunk and my friends are
holding back. He's like, I'm gonna kill that
guy. I'm gonna kill him know like
never seen this guy's for it. You know, I didn't even know
this person existed before and then he's like really about and
I was just kind of standing there laughing because I thought
he had mistake it. I was like, this is so profound
and someone else. Yeah.
I was like what is happening? And I guess he had seen me
talking to her and he was like dating her and it made him crazy
because he was a psychotic part like he I don't know right he
like got very drunk and then decided he had to murder me or
something and then everybody kind of calmed him down.
So then when Superbad came out like a few a month or so later,
I was out with my this is the only interaction I've ever had
with this man. So interaction one is he tries?
Yes. Yes, and then he kind of and
he's like, you know like frothing at the mouth.
So then where I'm at a bar. Which is already kind of a
misguided Choice like I realized kind of after like it was way
too much heat on us at the time to just go out to a bar like it
was insane in there. I mean, I was not used to being
this recognizable that quickly and like everybody in the bar
was you know, and also all those really inebriated.
Yes everybody Like There's No Boundaries.
Everybody's really physical with you and everything and you know,
it was just I just was learning that this is like not the best.
It was like a lot of pressure. Yeah, not the best Forum.
No, I mean, but I was just out with my friends, you know, and
then this guy sits down next to me his name was Matt something.
And he was like hey Mike, how are you man?
I was like, oh, hey man. I'm like, whoa, you recognize
him as gosh. I am never forget his face and
I'm like, hey, I'm kind of like, you know treating light like you
talk to like a Pit Bull or something.
Like, you know, it's being nice now.
I'm just petting him right and he's like, how are you man?
You seems like the sweetest guy was like, I'm good.
How are you? He's like, I'm crazy because I
had no idea you were an actor. I was like, yeah.
He's like so you like go out to LA and stuff you like.
It worked out there occasionally and I was like, yeah, I mean,
yeah, so he goes God, I'd love to visit you out there sometime
swear to God. That was just like what is this?
Yeah. He's like man, like let's keep
in touch. Don't be a stranger.
What did that tell you about? I don't know.
I don't sir told me a lot about this person.
I mean, it's just like very psychotic person.
I don't know right like this is his perception of the
experiences in the world right way things are what did you find
that like that kind of thing? Happened a lot or that was
funny. No, I mean that is unusual was
an extreme circumstance. That was extremely funny that
things could turn that like that much of a so, how long did you
stay with you? I mean, you know, we he's now my
personal assistant. We've been together 12 years.
He's outside the room. I did see him out there and he's
always in a state of either kicking my ass or loving we just
live on that we walk that that was the guy beating the shit out
of you outside. That's that's Matt.
Yeah. Well, you know he was annoyed
about The coffee that I deserved it, honestly, I deserved it.
I got them wrong kind of coffee this morning.
Do you remember one of my favorite bits somehow is when we
were in we're on that tour and we were in Spain.
I only remember just because I still when I get on it, I was on
the airplane yesterday and yeah awkward think about it.
Yeah all the time. Yeah.
So we're on a plane and Spain and the plane smells like smells
like feet like feces. Yeah, there's no other way to
say it really is no it It's like the most terrible smell you've
ever had that real kind of human feces smell to it.
This was not a bad odor that reminded us of feces.
This was unacceptable. It was is not is not something
you want to hang out with her three hours in the and we were
we were grounded like we couldn't take off that's why it
was like crazy. So we were like not even in the
air and we were stuck for like 3 hours on the tarmac and it smelt
like feces and we kept the bit was basically about how the
pilot was making an announcement, but it's a Spanish
pilot and that he was excusing that we were on a new kind of
plane that was actually assembled and built from yeah
made entirely of shit. I'm shit, but I think it was
like he was like exciting. It was like a thing that they
were proud of like, yeah everybody from the town and
contributed. I think that that was probably a
survival. I had contributed townspeople
had contributed as well. We did the whole flight.
Yeah, it was probably just a distract ourselves from a how
awful was screwing fucking insane.
We needed some way to deal with it and for 12 years pretty
consistently I'd say at least twice a month we do that bit.
Yeah where the plane is. The pilot is saving announcement
of Pride that the plane that we are on is made of feces they
were A bunch of those like twice we snapped at each other.
I remember what was it because it's very unusual.
Oh just we're just tired and patient.
But what do you remember what the Yeah Yeah, I do.
I do. We were at a photo shoot the
three of us at some putting place that glowed in the dark
you remember mmm and the photographer was able to do this
is by the airport. This is yeah.
Yeah exactly by LAX. Yeah, right.
Yeah and the photographer kept telling me to do something to do
something and I didn't want to do it and you were like just do
it so we can get out of here. I was like fuck off.
Don't tell me to do it. I remember it was a tense
moment. I felt really weird telling you
I was like why am I saying this to jump but I think we were just
tired, you know, it's like like like they literally had every
basically like through burn it like pies in our face.
Yeah. Yeah, we're close to slipping on
a banana peel and I'll just go then I want to go home fucking
jump up in the air. I mean, I think probably since
then you have you developed like now I know how to kind of yeah,
I don't know lightly advocate for myself.
Yeah in these situations you I will say we're always I tell you
this all the time and when I interview you for that Zine that
we did for a 24 I my interview with you and my sister are my
two favorites, but you even at 19 had like a very good boundary
self-protection of like what felt right for you and what
didn't and I really didn't have any self protection of like what
felt goofy or what felt huh? Like I was betraying myself in
some way. I think you have really good
boundaries. Even when you were a kid.
Yeah, you kind of knew what felt shitty and well good and we're
able to stand up for yourself. A lot of wins, I think maybe
what I've learned since then is how to you know, like stand up
for yourself and not have it be tense.
Right? Because I used to really feel
like at war or something if I had a boundary at I needed to
protect it like you feel like yeah just put pressure on you
like the silence, you know, like when there's like, press people
there and they're like we want you to do this thing.
You're like, I don't really want to do it.
They just got quiet and like like you've said something
really awful like just say to me I don't want to do it and this
feels like weird. I don't want to do it.
Oh, okay. Well, you know that moment.
Yeah that puts an enormous amount of pressure on you.
I used to have a publicist and sometimes I feel like when
there's not too much to do because I don't need like to get
a lot of clothes for me or something or my hair and makeup.
They might publicist. I feel like she would start
fights with people just to kind of feel like she was you know a
job. That was yeah.
Yeah just to throw her weight around or just to be there.
So I would sometimes be in a fight with Photographer without
even knowing it and the photographer would be like angry
at me. I'm this happened one time with
this photographer and she wanted me to wear a hat.
I didn't want to wear and then she pulled me aside.
She was like, what's your fucking problem?
Why don't you undo any of this shit and I was like, what do you
mean? I don't even know what we're
talking about here. So when you don't know is upset
with you going what's your fucking problem?
And you're 19? Yeah that kind of alerting me to
this. That was like, oh man, I gotta
just speak for myself here. I want to talk about the play
you're doing now. Yeah, which I have not.
Not seen which I feel like a horrible friend.
Oh, no, there's lots of time but I see all of your plays.
Yes. I mean we're going till
February. Yeah, you know, I'm waiting for
you to get in the Rhythm a little.
Yeah likely takes usually six eight months to get in the real
things come as late as possible. No, but like even now it's been
amazing to watch you kind of like understand, you know, you
have this beautiful thing going especially with Kenneth Lonergan
and you've become this really formidable Broadway actor.
Thank you. Yeah, it's amazing.
Yeah, it's I mean, yeah, it's kind of just weird how it
happened. I guess.
I mean, it just has not just a Broadway actor but I mean like
yeah, you have this like very formidable theater career,
especially a partnership with Kenneth.
Yeah, it's still feel quite out of place though doing it.
I feel like you know, it's funny like that.
I don't know because I don't have any like language for
theater like Lucas and David Cromer who plays The Stepfather
in the play and he's actually a theater director who directed
the band's Vizquel the name of the play are the Waverly Gallery
Waverly. Starting Elaine May which is a
kind of his head using my Lucas. Yeah and Joan Allen me and David
Jonah. Yeah, but we're going to give
you a whole Lane may like yeah, that's a whole because I haven't
even gotten to catch up with you because this is actually a force
time for us to hang out because you're in yeah the play it's so
hard to do it after this. Yeah, you can literally have a
hard out to go do yeah, and so I want to hear all that away, but
David David and Lucas and I share a floor in the theater and
David and Lucas have a shared language about theater like they
Inside jokes about theater people and stuff and like the
world and like they sing songs from musicals and everything.
There's this whole thing and I'm like this is not my world at
all. Right.
So I feel a bit like an intruder in there just you know, and like
you just feel that the audiences are the same people as these
guys like they have this deep like that's their Obsession
their world. They know the whole language of
it everybody every show every song Someone used the term last
night that I loved which was someone was talking about these
kind of thing where they go. The audience is narrow.
Zero, but it's deep as hell, you know, so it's like an arrow.
It's like a certain type of person so it's like narrow but
it's so deep meaning like there are people that are obsessed
with yes theater like you're saying yeah, that's right.
Apparently David said there's a message board called all that
chat, but I'm going on I'm literally getting a fake troll
account and going so deep to talk shit about you on this.
Please just like destroy my life.
Michael Cera outside the theater and I feel he spit in my face
Maybe where he comes from that's a sign of respect.
But what's it? Well, they and there's people
that like live in Florida or live in Seattle.
There's a sensor. I'm CEST with Broadway and that
they have a comment and opinion on every show.
My sister's like, I mean, I really she be like grew up
obsessed. That was her thing.
Beanie been Platt. They're like, they grew up
together. They're best friends like that.
Is there like hip-hop for me? Me or something before movies
for us, you know like it. Yeah, it's amazing and Scott
rudin's like that. Yeah.
Absolutely Scott Rudin who produced mid-90s and Waverly
Gallery Michaels played. He's like the king of broad.
He's the king of bras kind of the King of Everything But he
when you really see him light up is when he talks about a play,
you know, yeah. I wish I could hold my own with
those guys, but I just that's just not my world.
I'm kind of a visitor and it but maybe that gives you some unique
perspective to your working in the medium, you know.
Yeah. I mean the only place I've
worked on. Kenneth Lonergan plays and I was
talking about this with my girlfriend the other day that
actually his plays the thing that really gives it its force
is its realism the tone and the way that he captures language
and conversation. Yeah, there's nothing quote
unquote Broadway about it. Yeah.
I mean it's hard to do an interpretation of one of his
plays in a very avant-garde way or something because like the
thing that makes them really saying is that they sound like
people talking people talking, you know, it's funny because I
saw I saw you for the first time when you first found out I was
this is our youth right and you were amazing.
You're the During called gaming Tavi gevinson as I said last
name and I was obviously so like proud but I think I was like so
shocked that you were like, I think I was just so excited and
shocked I was like just like high off of seeing you up there.
Yeah, and then by the time I saw a Lobby hero, which was your
second place. Yeah.
I was like, holy shit. Michael is like a serious actor
in this realm. You know what I mean?
I would have seen you do it. I would love to see you on
stage. I I'm so curious if I'd have the
patience for and then I got better at writing a play than
acting anymore. Totally.
It's like it's a bit of a marathon.
Yeah, just because I am so I get so sick of it Ike you did write
a play. I loved the play that you guys.
Oh, yeah Spike Jonze and I wrote a play.
Yeah. I was I think I liked writing a
play more than watching the actors get ready for our sponge
Jones and I wrote a play called hundred percent cotton.
That was really cool that thank you that we did one night only
and then destroyed can I describe?
Yes my experience of when it first started.
It I'm sure this is how you guys designed it, but it blew me
away. Yeah, you're kind of let in
through this door on the street. You don't really know quite
where you are. You have no idea.
Yeah Ali. Yeah, you're in an alley and
then you're brought up under these like bleachers and there's
only a few rows there was like how many people a hundred people
maybe maybe maybe and then there's a big curtain and then
when the curtain opens you realize you're in the
Metropolitan Opera and what's behind the curtain is the house
like the the auditorium so you get a view just enormous Farmers
would see yes you're viewing from the stage the house and you
guys used that whole Space Show yeah with people wearing head
Mike's like way the hell up and far away.
That was great. It was like stunning when that
opened up in your like this is where we are.
See I was so used to it like yeah have it was you that right?
Right. Yeah.
I wish I could get it was very cool.
It was very cool. It was fun.
It was so great that you were there.
That was a great show. Was it fun to write that?
Yeah like to me I think writing writing gives me the most joy
out of everything. Yeah, you know, I like love
writing as a good job. Just watching great actors, like
see the Words that you wrote like I would love to like write
a play that like you were in that'd be fun.
Even though you're used to kalon again, which is would be taking
a major step down. But when I saw you in the lobby
here I was like, holy shit Michael really smashed it like I
couldn't believe how much you carried a play with just you and
Brian really talking to each other Brian Tyree Henry another
brilliant manager. Yeah.
It's a great show and you didn't have a flashy part, right, you
know, and I was like the fact that we're just watching.
Going another actor on a stage riveting you for two hours or
however long it is. I was like Michael had just
become like a fucking beast of an actor.
It's great Martini or beast of an actor, but I think it's
different, you know, staring them watching these different
experience. Yeah.
I was just doing the watching you in a film than watching.
You really just have dialogue basically.
Yeah. Did you like as a friend
watching your friend in a play? Where did you feel nervous?
You know, I was just excited. I knew you you're someone who
like doesn't miss in my mind. You know what I mean?
Like you kind of Of I don't know you just never missed.
I've never seen you on something and been like oh, that's man.
Michael wasn't good in that. I've never seen you miss.
You're my favorite actor. That's really sweet.
Well, the thing actually like something I think you would like
about theater. You do the show so many times
you do it over and over and there are shows that you feel
terrible about you just feel like they didn't they're not
clicking into you have like your own personal system of grading
each show. You can't help but compare and
contrast them based on the audience response and what
they're feeding you and how you how you feel you're Here's how
comfortable you feel or how authentic you feel or something.
It's kind of a good at like Buddhist exercise don't like let
everyone. Yeah Let It Go, like like like a
sand castle that just gets washed away after each one and
there's no record of it as just like, okay, that's 700 people
think that I'm talentless. Ha ha ha the next my gonna mask.
And yeah, it's just they bring in groups of people and they
each of them see whatever you can do that day.
I would and that's their opinion of you.
It's interesting. Yeah, I would like that because
what I need in life the most Most is the experience is the
experience being in the results business is like a failure.
Yeah, that's a good thing about theater.
I mean sometimes afterwards you like huh?
Nobody'll ever know I did that. There's no record of that work
Rick. Although there is but in movies
it's even harder because there's like such a public record from
you. Fuck.
Yeah. Exactly.
It's like I love that about it. I've never heard it put like
that and that you have to kind of Let It Go immediately and go
on to the next one and the same kind of experience in the
writers room when I was in there for Arrested Development.
Yeah. Kind of like like I don't know
Zen acceptance thing like a fun. Whatever you write that day.
Yes, some days you really contribute some days you like
really pull your weight and you say something funny and you
know, it gets in the script and some days.
He really just sit there and nothing comes to you.
Yeah, but you just can't what is it?
Like I guess this is such a Buddhist life that yeah, right.
So it's like on those days. I don't know what you're talking
about. Yeah any day you're writing?
Yeah and doing anything. You're like, there's good days
and bad days and bad days. So you go home and you're like,
wow, I really I fucking like had a breakthrough out of some real
great. Shit today, right or day were
literally just zero still day. Yeah is the idea that you go
home and kind of like feel pride in that day or shame in that day
or is that you just go it was what it was don't let either one
it just was at doing it is the idea.
I think that and maybe just to like get over your
self-evaluation. Actually the thing that I really
appreciate about doing the theater that they actually the
point I was making was you'll have a show that you feel really
terrible about it. Just And sometimes your friends
are there in those days, you know and your friend will come
back and tell you they loved it and you'll say well no, I had a
really bad show tonight and they'll be like, well, you can
never tell like how every you're perceiving what's happening and
has actually nothing to do with what the audience's he's
experiencing it. See as a human being whatever
I'm feeling. Yeah, I assume everyone can just
know that maybe I'm getting better at it now because I'm
aware of it. Yeah, but if I felt like
depressed or horrible, right? I assumed anyone I counter like
I'm like a clear window and they can just yeah see it, but you
realize no they don't they reflect whatever they want to on
to you. Exactly.
I wonder if that I don't know. I feel like part of kind of
really getting to know yourself and know how you feel about
things and not base that on what other people think it's part of
growing up. Yeah, like knowing your actions
in your yeah and where you stand on that your own cup having your
own compass in life it is it's it makes your friendships deeper
and make sure relationships deeper when you have that.
Yeah. There's this line.
Did you ever watch? What planet are you from?
The gear handle works? Yeah, which I think like I know
Gary really hated that movie. That was my favorite part in the
Gary doc that said did the talking about that movie?
Yeah, just because you're like wow Garry Shandling in Mike
Nichols like two of my heroes got John Goodman.
Yeah, but they're not just the minds of Gary.
Yeah, and Michael's getting together.
So purpose is a disaster and I hated each other you think Gary
was like, I'm gonna go on a whole like Gary podcast.
Basically. Yes you are.
You ready? We're closer to him than I was
but I had a lot of good experience.
You know, I remember the night that you guys met.
I remember there was it we had Seth was doing some charity
thing. Oh, right.
Yeah. It was like an evening
celebrating Seth Rogen or something.
That was kind of like the giant. Yeah, that's alright and Gary
was there and you were just talking to you just sat and
talked to them at a table at the end of the night and I was there
with Nick jasenovac and all her friends and we were like getting
ready to go and Gary was just like clicked into you and
talking to you and you were like glowing because it was like, I
think a big moment for you. And we were like, hey man were
like get all you gave me a ride home.
Yeah, he was like, we're just talking to you guys mind if we
just talk for a little longer and you were just like I was
really happy for you because you just seemed like you've been
like anointed me Julian as you know, you getting him got
clothes like is the best thing ever, you know, I mean, he's
just as magical as anyone would ever yeah, like I was a big gift
in a big loss. Yeah.
I really miss him a lot. What a Monumental brain and
grapes here, but the line that in that movie because he wrote
that movies and this is I think this is basically Gary's
Philosophy is it's a line that Annette Bening says she's like,
what's your goal in life? And he's like, I don't know and
she goes well my goal is to get to know myself so that I can
stop thinking about myself and start focusing on others.
Hmm. It really feels like that's
basically Gary's Life philosophy.
Right? And if you look at her if you
look at like principles of like lots of different things that
are have helped a lot of people whether their religion or
programs or things like that, right?
It's basically get out of self and give to other people sounds
nice anytime. Yourself even beating yourself
up is so selfish because it's about you tell me even if you're
being really unkind to yourself. It's selfish act because it's
just about you. Yeah, before we move on.
Can we talk about Elaine May? Oh, yeah as I haven't even gone
to ask you as a friend. Yeah.
We haven't had a lot of this shit know you've been so busy,
but I want to know what has that been like Elaine May is the star
of Michael's play one of the stars of Michael's play and she
was Mike Nichols his comedy partner and they did their show
at the golden Theater, which is where we're doing the show.
Wow. Yeah that she had a crazy.
See, I mean obviously must say cool shit about that.
What did she I mean she's just like it was just the two of us.
We didn't even need all this space cause there's like 12
dressing rooms. They're like, we just were just
on this first floor. So what has been some of the
most interesting topics that you've gotten into with her, you
know, the sad thing is or things you've learned.
Well since we've you know, gotten out of rehearsals.
Yeah, and we're just performing the show.
I kind of hardly see her we have to like construct situations
where we overlap right? Because now you just go into the
shooter. And I see her on stage.
So sometimes we'll hang back after the show and like she
likes Stout so I bring her Stout the bigger.
Yeah, there's that. Yeah, she loves it.
There's this really good stout called Mexican cake, which is
like it's got chocolate and cinnamon and like habanero
pepper in it. It's a really thick as liked are
amazing. And so I and bring our keg of
that bring your cake of that I get a real loose and then we and
then you get her drunk and then she'll tell you everything so
you literally just kick back and have a beer with Elaine May
sometimes sometimes yeah, like you'll never forget that the
rest I mean how Now those are the best.
Yeah. Those are the best.
He's one of my top. She's my top five Heroes of all
time is Elaine May. Yeah, you know, she's oh, yes,
she's the great. Well, you have two great overlap
with her. She's also one of the first huge
female directors like a very early time.
Yeah, you know, I know that's the most incredible thing really
Pioneer like female she would just stare down the Studio's
like with Mikey and Nikki and a new Leaf was her first movie
with Walter Matthau, right and it has one of my favorites
Inches of all time in it the movies about Walter Matthau as a
rich guy who loses all of his money and then dates Elaine May
who's like a wacky weirdo and has an inheritance.
Yeah wealthy New York person, but she's like really wacky.
Yeah, like you wouldn't want to date her is right here, right
but Walter Matthau loses all his money.
He's too shallow guys obsessed with being rich and there's a
sequence. It's one of the funniest
sequences in the movie ever when he's talking to his accountant
know where he says goodbye to being rich only did he sadly
does all the things he does is a rich person.
Right right for the last time so he's kind of like almost crying
and saying goodbye to like yeah eating at this fancy restaurant
like getting tailored but fursuit, but he's like very
upset. It's great in a way that only
Walter Matthau could pull off so bro, man.
Yeah. They're really great together.
I want to hear and Elaine May story before we go imagine like
getting to spend an afternoon with Mike Nichols and Elaine
May. Oh my God, I think if I could,
you know, those things are computed you have dinner with I
think they were friends till the end.
She talks about him with great affection.
I think that would be My like, you know people like Jesus or
whatever. I think I literally would have
to be done with Elaine May and Mike Nichols.
Did you ever see there's a video on YouTube of the two of them
talking like at the Y or something and itís X3 way, it's
great. It's kind of like what you're
saying like you just get to see them just hang out and we just
rip off each other they talk about their careers and they
talk about, you know, everything.
It's really nice. Red's is one of my favorite
movies. Yeah and Elaine they wrote like
so much of Reds like she came into right like so much is the
story of that. Yeah.
I've never seen it. It's such a good movie.
Yeah, I got it's maybe it's a masterpiece Jack Nicholson's and
it right Jack Nicholson and Warren Beatty Warren Beatty
directed it and start one-on-one like an Academy Award for you
one like all of them. I write I think it was like the
one where he won like he swept like every category I've got
movie is the reason Ishtar exists because he was indebted
to Elaine, right? So he was like he owed her.
Yeah. He wanted to get this movie made
and I want to watch is starting now with where I'm at.
Yeah, cinematically my mind to see if it is.
Bad or deserves the hatred or I don't think it's like nearly as
bad as the as the vitro for it. Yeah being like synonymous.
I think the thing that happened is that it just lost like an
incredible. It was expensive and didn't
yeah. Yeah.
I mean ended her film career. That's so crazy friend.
She wrote The Birdcage. Yeah switch to analyze diem
single funniest. Oh, yeah.
It's like maybe my favorite comedy.
I just I there's so much I think about on a daily basis from that
movie like even like Gene Hackman.
Man when he's so taken with Nathan Lane, yes his as a mom.
Yeah. Yeah, right is it you're just
such a Charming woman and then obviously there's like Hank
Azaria. Yeah, he's amazing.
He's I mean he kind of stood mean it's like as good as it
gets pretty and then you have the like Robin Williams was
being basically held back. You have to tell ya that's I
love that take my bit about the bird cages that Robin Williams.
It's maybe my favorite performance of his very subdued.
It's so subdued. He's too straight man of the
movie and Nathan Lane is the It is the comedic but you're
basically the film. Yeah, and it's just like there
are fucking ankle weights on Robin Williams the entire movie
and then there's that one moment where he's showing he's
directing the play and he's showing like Martha Graham
Martha grandmother ever possibly but like Mike Nichols is just
like thumb on him like the holding him down.
The entire was like just let him go and mine.
It was like I'm too exhausted. Fuck it and just dropping it
just doesn't happen that one scene.
Yeah, he's fully Character is like the straight man of the
movie but like he cannot help himself.
It's really great, but it's just funny because you see him like
it's almost like he's miserable containing that the entire
moving. He just fucking can't help but
he's really great to as that. He's so heartbreaking.
I just got reminded in my favorite story of yours.
What's being a the story where you a bird almost flew into you?
Oh my God, this is the story of yours that I tell people the
most because go ahead. It's my favorite thing.
I'm really just telling about scene from The Birdcage go ahead
and tell this you want me to tell it.
Yeah, you tell it me tell ya. Yeah, okay.
I mean, it's your story I know but it may be more intelligent.
Are you? Okay?
I'll tell you you'll see my interpretation of it down over
the years because you told me this 10 years ago.
Yeah. So this was longer than that.
Correct me if I get it wrong, so you're dating this girl.
Yeah, my first like serious Girlfriend.
Yes, and you went to meet her family at their house.
No already wrong. Okay brought her brother's High
School graduation. Oh, so it was a big event.
Ook at the beach her brother and her dad and his friends are all.
Playing football or something bro, like jocks, right and
they're all like getting down squirming in the sand together.
Yeah muscles Rippling. Yeah, right writhing on each
other. Yeah doing some masculine stuff.
Yeah, and you're sitting with the women talking, right
kibitzing. Yeah, exactly and they were like
come play where they like, hey come play in the game.
You're like, no they took a break because the men were all
around right? So the men all came back to
their hanging out near. Yeah, right.
Yeah, and they're everyone's kind of hanging out and we're
sitting in these chairs like eating lunch, but you're already
feeling not. Like the most masculine person
on the beach because you didn't play the game 100% did it was
like full like Wedding Crashers style.
Like they were playing football and I didn't want to partake
right? You guys was totally napkins at
the table feelings, right? And they sit back down and
everyone that like the mentor like exhausted from the big
football match chugging Gatorade.
Yeah and just sort of like patting each other on the back
and Bobby tussling can take it from here.
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. So the thing that happened
that's really makes it a great stories that so there was a bird
that nearly flew. Goodbye, you write like flew by
your head. What's the non exaggerated
version on the real version is a bird flew at me, but didn't like
come that close to her. There was no immediate danger.
It was like you looked up in A Bird Without You by surprise you
but it wasn't severe and it wasn't dangerous.
Yeah, and so and this might pique the mic a little so you're
actually let's get ready on the on the dial that it's your
reaction was you jumped in your chair and went please That's it,
right? Yeah, that's what makes it my
favorite Story, please and then for the rest of the day you were
like the please guy, right? Yeah.
They were he's they were so unkind please they like throw a
football towards me and be like, please please needless to say
there were she dumped me very shortly after that.
Yeah, that was shows where she's at where she's married now.
Yeah, and to probably guys not scared of birds.
I imagine good for her. I'm terrified like wing and
animals Birds. Yeah, like but like just birds
like pigeons like if a patient's would like to touch my face.
What about it? Like a bug that flies?
I can handle that. I know my dad, you know, my dad
Luigi, of course. My dad is not afraid of like
anything except for he has a deadly fear of June bugs.
He looks like to be little doubt.
Yeah, if those fly by he like really shrinks the idea of
Luigi. Yeah Running Scared into jelly.
Yeah. What is it is It's been highly I
don't know. I never got the Deep
psychologist or your dad got mad about cleaning stuff up.
Oh, yeah, this is my favorite story.
But he's like when we were really little mean my sister's I
don't know it was the thing is the thing where like your dad
tries to get angry and then ends up accidentally being funny and
then makes them even more Angry. So he was like angry that we
were left stuff around and he accidentally rhymed like a dr.
Seuss rhyme it was like you kids leave your things where they lay
you put them there and there they stay but it's great and
yeah, just screaming it. And we all like just burst out
laughing and my mom laughed which also like to set him on.
Yeah, and then he would just he was just leave them there and
there they stay also to form a sentence that way it's like
there isn't anything funnier than anger because it's so
rarely lands like when does anger like land the way you want
it to land. There's like a there's like a 3
also chili anger lands in the affected intention of anger
doesn't lead to violence then it's just Lily right lane it
violence get okay. It's like oh, okay.
There's a situation but even you're hitting me, yeah, that's
terrible. I mean anger of just like
extraterrestrial space nonviolent.
I guess you've seen a lot of that on sets because there's a
lot of like people lose their temper on sets, right?
Yeah. Have you seen it?
Yeah. My first movie was I heart
huckabees is David o'russell was the director and now is the
movie like all the videos came out.
He since like, you know apologize to me.
Yeah, like kind of a really yeah, he's awesome.
He's actually really I like seeing him quite a bit and that
was a phase. I was scared of him when I was
younger his house 18. All I ever wanted was a
director. Hmm.
It was my first set I was ever on and I was like, this is what
movies are like, holy shit. Right, but I think people then
growing up more. I kind of understand like the
odd part about at least being an actor I would say is like having
to express certain emotions no matter what's going on in your
life. Yeah, so I kind of understand it
more like when I add an act, you know, if I had an actor as a
director sort of lose it a little bit It I understand more
because they're all of a sudden having to give this gave
everything to this thing or get to this place.
I've done I mean you have no idea what's going on in their
personal life. That's that's what I mean.
You know. It's like Simon could have had
like lost a relative and then they have to like do this really
funny scene or so, right right now not that it's an excuse to
behave poorly at work at all. I just maybe there's a level
that where it crosses over and you're just like you're just an
asshole. Yes.
I kind of get when people are upset about something.
But it's always just like it's like dad's angry or something
when the ring like everything goes quiet on set and somebody's
like well Scott Roberts engine the vibe Scott Robertson.
Oh Scott. Yeah Scotty is the first 80 on
Superbad Moneyball and he was the first ad executive producer
on mid-90s. That's great.
Scott like makes movies. He is like the engine good or
bad it first ad can make or break a Phil hoddle and when
Scott would get upset which is very rare.
He's so he's so the best but he has to be kind of like the
parent in a lot of ways. Even more than the director.
Yeah, so if like people are just like goofing off too much or
something the very it's like seeing your mom or dad lose
their shit. Yeah, even as a director, it was
funny to still feel that way. There's certain jobs for those
part of it. Like part of actually being good
at your job is sometimes you have to like show people that
you're annoyed. They're kind of bad cop.
Yeah, they kind of have to get people away because that's can
so we have to police the set turn the hanging out.
Yeah. It's a lot of people's a hundred
people. You have to tell them all to be
quiet. I'm always laugh at this.
Still when someone's cellphone goes off.
Yeah the idea that you would work on a set that like yourself
that the ringer would be on and it take and yeah, it just it's
everything. You know, when they do like room
tone. Everybody has to go quiet.
I remember you would always do the joke such a ham.
Yes. Such a fucking ham.
That's so embarrassing. I literally told that story the
other day. So when was doing room Tom and I
was like, you know when I was like 21, I was so obnoxious that
like you got to be quiet to get the tone of the room and and
they just need it and they literally need it to make the
film and post-production. Best part is like it's like the
best time to try and make someone laugh.
Yeah. I always try to make you yeah,
that's because it's like the most thrilling thing when you're
not allowed to make a sound. Well, let's okay.
We're getting close to the end. Okay.
It's happened to me on stage. By the way this kind of laughing
pick with Kieran during this is our youth.
What were you just what we me and Karen had a we both gamble a
lot like we gamble together. That's kind of we're both
degenerate gamblers. And the thing we had was We
didn't want to like just trade money the whole time so we would
gamble for push-ups. That's so good.
Like oh, how much does on-demand how many would it be like and be
like you owe me a hundred push-ups in the next they're
good for the next week and then they expire but it's on demand.
So like we'll go to dinner the food will show up and then I'll
say I need 20 push-ups and what's the maximum you could ask
for and you can only Dole out 2020 against like some time in
between or something. Yeah, that's amazing.
So you'd be like interested humiliation.
Yeah, and then he's doing push-ups and people are looking
so weak. I think I said like if you could
do this thing on stage I'll Oh you whatever like a dare, you
know, and the thing was to do a really dumb delivery of a line
to go like okay, that's it. There's a line of the play where
he goes. Okay, that's it.
Call Christian do this this and I said if you do it, like that's
it like an old Jimmy Durante like really lean into that.
That was the Dare and then he did it like a hundred percent
like he would always do just did it.
And as soon as he did it he held in that pose for a second and we
looked at each other's eyes and we had to both look away.
And then the scene went on he kept it and then but I knew as
soon as we looked at each other you would start it was gonna be
bad and then we did and then we just broke you were literally
laughs we just broke. Yeah, we were laughing for like
a minute. Well, I fell down on the bed
laughing dying like it's usually controller Lassie know the
audience knew that the play had broken and they were laughing
too. They were like enjoying it
because they know you guys had broke.
It was like a moment. Yeah.
I mean it was like the whole house was fun.
Do you get talk to you by likes? No, nobody did but I mean we
felt the pressure of like we have to get this thing back on
the track this play. Like, you know, we can't like
lose the stakes of all that we've built up to this point in
the play this like near the end in the payoff is coming like and
these people paid you really have this thing in your mind of
like professionalism, right? Because people literally spend
their hard-earned money on expensive theater ticket and I
mean they sometimes I think people like to see when
something goes wrong with it makes it kind of a special
thing. Yeah, but wait I did have a
sense of responsibility that made it 10 times harder.
Oh my God, so it was a crazy feeling.
I wish I could have seen that it was pretty special.
Yeah, but we got it back, you know got through the play.
Yeah, man, you and Karen were so good together.
I love working with us a great actor.
Yeah, he's an interesting guy. I don't know him very well.
And I'm through you. Yeah, it was funny.
Like they just did a big article about him in Vanity Fair a big
profile. Yeah, and it's funny to see your
friend's life sort of like narrative.
I used right like they sort of like tell her say was great.
Yeah. They Digital Life in a way did
he feel was a Creator did you feel as I didn't read it?
I think yeah good hasn't yeah. That's such self-discipline.
Yeah. I think I know why because it
must be weird to read about your life.
Especially he's got this kind of funny life hanging out with
Michael Jackson. If I were to interview Karen in
knew that like people got would be 100% of my writing for Vanity
Fair. Like what are you and what are
you interested in? Yeah, I guess it's a bit of a
monkey on his back. No pun intended.
Who's the craziest person like Michael Jackson type figure
you've ever met. I mean Michael jet that's a high
bar of insanity to I mean him being the Holy Grail of like odd
eccentric eccentric figures important figures.
That have eccentricity to them maybe David Lynch.
I got to hang out with him. I mean, I don't know him very
well because I just spent like a day with him but write to me
seems like a person from another planet.
Yeah in the way that's like you just can't understand how they
exist and how they're so great and you have conversation with
him that like confirmed your lover admiration for him just
for just said I met him like made me appreciate how open of a
person he is. Yeah the way that I met him was
by going and doing Transcendental Meditation like
signing up for it at the Lynch Foundation.
Yeah. The TM Center.
Yeah, there's a few of them you go over the course of four days
to learn the method and then on the fourth day.
There was this young girl. She's like, I'm from the David
Lynch Foundation. Do you guys want to meet David
Lynch and meditate with him sometime?
We're like What like we really just walked in there and did
this for four days and then she just appeared with an invitation
to go meet the master. I was like what is happening?
This is crazy and then we didn't really believe it until like a
month later. She was like, how's Thursday at
David's house and he had a set his house at like noon and he
invited us up to like his painting studio and I got there
before all my friends and I went up and met him just one-on-one
Frozen. I'm like hey, buddy.
Hey Mike, he knew who I was. I think he was like, wow, how
are you was he wearing the black suit the way I don't think so.
I don't know. I think he was wearing his like
painting stuff Garb but he was so I mean that was like a
miracle to me. Yeah, I could be invited to this
man Solomon made him and meditate with him.
Yeah, you just like hung out of David Lynch's house.
Yeah, we hung out for like, you know an hour and then we all
left. I love that and then I got to
work with him for like a day. Yeah, and yeah.
No, I mean he's like Someone that I think is a different kind
of person. That's a great answer.
Yeah. Do you have someone like that?
Mine would be it wasn't a long and it was just a great story
for who the person was. I think I met Prince.
Oh, wow. That's pretty great.
We went to go see Prince. Oh, yeah.
It's the whole couch High School Musical.
Yeah right on our first stop of the super bed.
Tour another weird Superbad tour thing.
Yeah, the cast of High School Musical was on our floor had a
box. We all went to go see Prince
yellow box. It was amazing.
That's wild I met Prince very many many years ago and it was
at his house I guess and it was a party like, you know is I can
hissing. Oh, I know it was it was a it
was when I presented the first time at the Academy Awards many
many years ago Prince had like an after party and I think he
would have like an after party like a famous after party after
them for many years, but I was 20 I was like 24 or something.
Yeah, and I went and I I met him and what was awesome was I met
him. He was wearing a crazy prince
outfit, you know, like a cool prince outfit and we said a few
words and he said hello. I have fun.
Welcome to my house with her. I don't remember exactly what he
said and then he excused himself and literally 20 seconds later.
I turn around and he's having a conversation with someone else
because wearing a completely different outfit.
Yeah, and I'll just never forget that he had somehow like like in
the Dave Chappelle Show. Version of like Prince, you
know, like he had literally did an outfit change in like what
felt to me like must have been like at tops 45 seconds.
And that's my one image in France where he loves something
very eccentric happened. Well like a little magic trick.
Yeah, like just some sort of like what you would want him to
do, but I loved it what that actually like the story that
that actually tells it's like magical.
It's like you turn around he's wearing different clothes, but
the reality of it, is it me. This guy runs into his room and
frantically changes his clothes. It just I don't know how he'd he
must have had the clothes on underneath.
Yeah. He had a Tearaway suit.
Yeah like a Tearaway Prince suit and like does he find that funny
that he would run into people he was speaking to two minutes
earlier in a completely different outfit confused
though. Is that like comical is he just
so swagged out that like, he's got have so much drip like so
many different outfits. Yeah, I know.
I love Prince. So so rest in peace.
Yeah, it's yeah, he was great Mikey.
I love you buddy. We did it.
This was scheduled enforced way for us to hang out.
You're doing a play. I think we should schedule this
more often everybody go see the wavery gallery Waverly wave just
again want to take that again run that back into the Waverly
Gallery when I say, I think you said the waiver we Garrett
Garrity go see Mike in the wild Ali where it ended.
And the Brad caridy the brand go see Michael in the Brad Garrity
the Brad Garrett. Okay, go see Michael as Brad
Garrity. I worked with Brad Garrity.
All right, let's stop. What did you work with him?
I want the last line to be I worked with probably know.
What did you wear to work with them just like a year ago on a
little movie called Gloria that Julianne Moore is Is Gloria
coming out soon? It's a remake of this Chilean
movie called Gloria that I love in the same.
Directory Yes Yes Master Level. Yeah.
Yeah.
How is Brad Garrett? He was great.
I mean we were like we talked about poker the whole time
because he lives in Las Vegas and he plays poker lives in Los.
Yes, he does. He like owns a comedy club out
there something Brad Garrett owns a comedy club in Las Vegas
and lives out there. We need to go to Las Vegas and
go to the think that's right. Yeah, let's go.
Okay great. Great my kids.
Love you. It's a plan your love anybody.
I love you more than you know, you're the best.
This is great. Go see Michael Cera in the
Waverly Gallery. Thank you co-starring with
Elaine May. Well, when does this come out
this podcast January? We still be in the class.
We're basically done by the time you'll go to see the final show
go read about the Waverly gallery go read about the
reviews of the Waverly Gallery check starring Brad Garrett and
Michael in May and the other again, Karen Allen and looky
Hedges and David Crowe. Omer and David Cromer and go
rent tune style mid-90s or buy it or buy it.
Yeah, I mean talking about re-watch value talking about the
re-watch ability of get this special feet.
I've seen it like 3,000 times. Is there a making-of there's
lots of that's what I want to see switch and there's deleted
kind of making of yeah, I want to see that we had really good
because all the kids were shooting the skateboarding.
Yeah, right. I'll see you have all that and a
lot of its on that. Great, so it's really fun.
Oh, that sounds great. And I would see Michael and I
being friends hanging out in life in life.
Yeah, unless anything goes wrong.
Thanks for listening. The 824 podcast is produced by
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