1 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:09,200 Hey and welcome back to the 824 Podcast. 2 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,480 For today's episode we brought together two of this year's Emmy 3 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,360 nominees, Stephen Young and Michael Imperioli. 4 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,240 Stephen stars in our Netflix series Beef and Michael has a 5 00:00:19,240 --> 00:00:23,040 very memorable role in season 2 of HBO's The White Lotus, one of 6 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,120 our favorite non 824 productions. 7 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,800 Please note this conversation was recorded pre strike. 8 00:00:29,570 --> 00:00:33,410 We hope you enjoy it. So we should introduce 9 00:00:33,410 --> 00:00:36,090 ourselves. Is that usually all right? 10 00:00:36,490 --> 00:00:38,690 All right. Hi, this is Steven Young. 11 00:00:38,890 --> 00:00:41,810 And this is Michael Imperioli. And today we're talking on the A 12 00:00:41,930 --> 00:00:44,930 24 podcast. Where are you today? 13 00:00:45,050 --> 00:00:48,410 I'm in my house in in LA. How about yourself? 14 00:00:49,050 --> 00:00:50,810 Yeah, I'm in my house in New York. 15 00:00:51,010 --> 00:00:53,080 Right on. It's really cool to talk to you. 16 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:54,920 Same here. Yeah, same here. 17 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,400 This is very cool. How long have you lived in LA? 18 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:17,240 I I'm originally from Michigan. You did a show meaning the The 19 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:03,280 Walking Dead, right? I moved here 2009 and I got here 20 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,560 and then I booked a show that took me to Atlanta for seven 21 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:08,120 years. So I've been, like in and out of 22 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,400 this place. I did the whole I hate this 23 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,640 place for a while and I'm, I'm, I'm back to. 24 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:18,800 I like this place. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. 25 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,270 Yeah. That show Where? 26 00:01:22,270 --> 00:01:23,550 Michigan? Where are you from? 27 00:01:23,750 --> 00:01:25,710 I'm from Detroit Suburbs, Troy, MI. 28 00:01:26,350 --> 00:01:28,350 I lived in Royal Oak for a while. 29 00:01:28,550 --> 00:01:30,910 Oh, you did? For a year for a work. 30 00:01:31,310 --> 00:01:36,390 Yeah, I did a series in 2010. Oh amazing. 2011 we shot in 31 00:01:36,390 --> 00:01:38,750 Detroit, in the city that we made a studio. 32 00:01:39,190 --> 00:01:42,550 Out of some warehouse in Highland Park, yeah, but I lived 33 00:01:42,550 --> 00:01:45,670 in Royal Oak and you know, drove, which is very not far 34 00:01:45,670 --> 00:01:46,910 from Troy. Not at all. 35 00:01:47,070 --> 00:01:50,190 And Royal Oak is a nice place to get the real culture of of 36 00:01:50,190 --> 00:01:51,950 Michigan. What did you think of Michigan? 37 00:01:52,150 --> 00:01:55,910 You could be honest. I liked it a lot until it got 38 00:01:55,910 --> 00:01:57,990 really till it got cold, it got very. 39 00:01:58,540 --> 00:02:01,620 It's dismal, Gray and really cold. 40 00:02:01,740 --> 00:02:05,140 It was hard for me because my my wife and kids were in New York. 41 00:02:05,140 --> 00:02:07,460 They came for the summer because the job started in the summer 42 00:02:07,460 --> 00:02:09,100 and the summers, Quite nice there. 43 00:02:09,460 --> 00:02:12,340 There's lakes not far away and you know, it's kind of like 44 00:02:12,540 --> 00:02:14,060 royal Oaks, like small town life. 45 00:02:14,060 --> 00:02:16,700 It was really nice. And then they went back to New 46 00:02:16,700 --> 00:02:21,140 York for school, and I would try to get back when I could because 47 00:02:21,140 --> 00:02:23,160 I was. I was the lead of the show, so I 48 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,800 worked all the time. And oh, you did. 49 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,480 It was Detroit 187. Detroit 187. 50 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,520 So I would fly home sometimes, you know, we did like Fridays, 51 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,040 like all night Fridays. And then I'd get on the first 52 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,240 plane Saturday and go home, fly back Sunday afternoon and go 53 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:39,920 back to work Monday at 6:00 in the morning. 54 00:02:39,920 --> 00:02:42,160 And it was I do that twice a month. 55 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:43,320 How old were your kids at the time? 56 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,320 Let's see. The youngest was like 8, the 57 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:54,150 middle was 12, No 13. My oldest was like 20. 58 00:02:54,390 --> 00:02:55,830 Actually. My middle was on the show a 59 00:02:55,830 --> 00:02:57,710 couple of episodes. Oh, sick. 60 00:02:57,990 --> 00:03:01,710 He played my son, can I just say, like from afar, and I know 61 00:03:01,710 --> 00:03:06,310 nothing of your life, but from afar I very much admire what 62 00:03:06,310 --> 00:03:12,870 feels like a really balanced real life, doing this very 63 00:03:12,910 --> 00:03:17,390 strange at times work and that's like so cool. 64 00:03:17,710 --> 00:03:20,730 I'm sure it was not easy, but much much respect. 65 00:03:20,890 --> 00:03:22,610 Yeah, well, thank you. Yeah. 66 00:03:22,610 --> 00:03:26,170 My kids are now all adults and and live on their own. 67 00:03:26,170 --> 00:03:29,570 So that period's over with living, you know, living with 68 00:03:29,570 --> 00:03:32,050 the kids and raising them. But I got lucky because I had a 69 00:03:32,050 --> 00:03:35,570 long stretch where the on The Sopranos I was in in New York, 70 00:03:35,570 --> 00:03:36,770 where we were living at the time. 71 00:03:36,770 --> 00:03:39,050 So yeah, I got to come home every night. 72 00:03:39,290 --> 00:03:41,850 So that was really quite a long stretch of time. 73 00:03:41,850 --> 00:03:45,090 And then can I ask, did being on something like Sopranos and 74 00:03:45,090 --> 00:03:48,130 being able to do good fellas and kind of having, I feel like 75 00:03:48,210 --> 00:03:51,330 maybe perhaps there was a plot for in an Italian American 76 00:03:51,330 --> 00:03:56,210 existence to already exist, but you were part of the forming of 77 00:03:56,210 --> 00:03:58,530 like an even more nuanced reality. 78 00:03:58,530 --> 00:04:01,650 Does that does that make it easier at times or harder for 79 00:04:01,650 --> 00:04:04,970 you to kind of be a pioneer of that life in a way? 80 00:04:05,450 --> 00:04:07,810 Well, you know, it's an extension of what I would turn 81 00:04:07,810 --> 00:04:10,490 me on to the, you know, in the business because it was like 82 00:04:10,490 --> 00:04:14,210 movies from the 70s and early 80s, some of whom were made by 83 00:04:14,210 --> 00:04:16,970 Italian Americans like Coppola and Scorsese and. 84 00:04:17,529 --> 00:04:21,690 And actors like, you know, who all like De Niro or Al Pacino 85 00:04:21,690 --> 00:04:24,890 who are heroes of mine, you know, So I definitely had a 86 00:04:25,370 --> 00:04:29,330 aspiration towards those things. And you know that the Italian 87 00:04:29,330 --> 00:04:32,730 American acting community in New York is kind of small. 88 00:04:32,810 --> 00:04:34,650 Like there's a lot of Italian Americans in New York, but the 89 00:04:34,730 --> 00:04:37,170 actual acting community is kind of small. 90 00:04:37,170 --> 00:04:40,050 So a lot of us before Sopranos knew each other. 91 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,400 From other jobs, you know, Goodfellas and some of Spike 92 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,560 Lee's stuff and and and and other things, you know. 93 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,480 So when Sopranos hit, a lot of us were already friends. 94 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,160 I mean two of the actors on The Sopranos I knew from my when I 95 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,760 was teenager in in acting classes. 96 00:04:55,760 --> 00:05:00,120 So it kind of felt like a real victory in a way that people you 97 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,440 can't only really. Lorraine Bracco was really the 98 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,600 only star when the show started. Everyone else was kind of in the 99 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,410 same boat. Done a lot of work. 100 00:05:07,410 --> 00:05:10,090 Character actors, people knew you a little here from here and 101 00:05:10,090 --> 00:05:12,410 there, but it felt like a victory when that became a 102 00:05:12,410 --> 00:05:14,010 success. And a lot of us who knew each 103 00:05:14,010 --> 00:05:15,690 other, you know, had that together. 104 00:05:15,770 --> 00:05:18,370 That was really cool, yeah, you know, and really fun. 105 00:05:18,410 --> 00:05:20,650 And that that it was so embraced that way. 106 00:05:21,050 --> 00:05:23,970 Did you have difficulty that first season of like kind of, 107 00:05:24,170 --> 00:05:27,050 maybe not how it was received, but I heard from Sonny, who 108 00:05:27,050 --> 00:05:30,410 created our show, that they didn't quite fully understand 109 00:05:30,410 --> 00:05:32,930 Sopranos that first season when it came out. 110 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,280 You mean the audience? Not maybe not the audience, but 111 00:05:36,280 --> 00:05:39,040 maybe the industry. Or maybe life at large. 112 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,800 Or it wasn't celebrated at the way it is now. 113 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,840 It was critically celebrated right away, right? 114 00:05:44,840 --> 00:05:46,280 Like the when it came, when it went on. 115 00:05:46,280 --> 00:05:49,320 The other reviews are really off the charts, to the point where 116 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:53,240 Saturday Night Live did a spoof that first season on the reviews 117 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,560 of The Sopranos. Because the reviews were really 118 00:05:55,840 --> 00:05:58,840 hyperbolic and over the top, you know? 119 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:02,680 And people started watching. You know, I think it was the 120 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,920 industry itself. Like we we were nominated for 121 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:10,240 Best Show that first year and we were the only cable show really 122 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,200 that was nominated for. Pretty much anything but the The 123 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,600 Sopranos didn't win best Show till like I think it was season 124 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,000 five. Which in hindsight, considering 125 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,720 like it's always on the list of the you know one of the best 126 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,880 shows ever and now in hindsight and all these younger people who 127 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,160 got turned on to it. The fact that the first four 128 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:33,600 years it lost best TV series to mainly to The West Wing and The 129 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:35,240 practice I think were the shows that. 130 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,360 We're beating it at the time. Maybe NYPD blew that first. 131 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,520 Maybe not, though that might have been on the way out. 132 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,000 So industry wise it was a little slow and we were such sore 133 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:45,520 losers. Like we went out to the Emmys 134 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,960 and we thought we were going to win because it did make such a 135 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:53,040 splash that first year and when we lost Best Show, we all walked 136 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:54,240 out. I love it. 137 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,960 We got up in the Emmys and walked right out, All of us. 138 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,000 That's we were just so pissed off. 139 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,440 Really were very sore losers and you know, overly cocky. 140 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,400 But yeah, was it was an interesting. 141 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,120 Time and it it kind of built overtime, you know? 142 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,080 I don't know. I feel like that feels so 143 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,720 justified and like also like part of the process of being 144 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,320 brave enough to put a show like that out to begin with. 145 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,160 Yeah, and it was, I'll tell you the truth, the. 146 00:07:19,590 --> 00:07:21,550 You know, we did the pilot first, right? 147 00:07:21,590 --> 00:07:26,030 And when I read the pilot, you can't really tell how kind of 148 00:07:26,030 --> 00:07:29,070 complex and where it would go. It was, you know, the pilot was 149 00:07:29,070 --> 00:07:31,750 fun and interesting, but you really didn't get a sense of the 150 00:07:31,750 --> 00:07:34,470 possibilities. And I wasn't really sure the 151 00:07:34,470 --> 00:07:36,390 tone of the pilot. Was it a spoof, was it? 152 00:07:36,390 --> 00:07:38,510 There was a lot of very funny things. 153 00:07:38,550 --> 00:07:42,350 And HBO series was not a prestige thing by any stretch of 154 00:07:42,350 --> 00:07:44,070 the imagination. It was actually the opposite. 155 00:07:44,070 --> 00:07:46,830 It was almost like the minor leagues of series. 156 00:07:46,950 --> 00:07:48,230 It really was. Wow. 157 00:07:48,230 --> 00:07:49,470 It was. There was no. 158 00:07:49,590 --> 00:07:51,830 Prestige about it. It was really kind of like, you 159 00:07:51,830 --> 00:07:54,270 know, second place to like network TV network. 160 00:07:54,270 --> 00:07:56,030 I mean, I hadn't done much television. 161 00:07:56,030 --> 00:07:58,630 I had mostly done theater and movies, mostly independent 162 00:07:58,630 --> 00:08:00,710 movies. So it was like a series where 163 00:08:00,710 --> 00:08:03,350 there's violence and profanity and nudity. 164 00:08:03,430 --> 00:08:06,830 It really didn't have much promise, like as something 165 00:08:06,830 --> 00:08:08,910 commercial. So we were kind of surprised 166 00:08:08,910 --> 00:08:11,710 actually that it got picked up. And then when we did the first 167 00:08:11,710 --> 00:08:14,430 season, that's when you really saw oh after. 168 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,040 Getting script after script, you're like, whoa, wait a 169 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,560 second, This is way beyond what I thought it was or could have 170 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,200 been, and it got really interesting. 171 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,520 What was the kind of parallel for you with, like, Walking 172 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:28,160 Dead? Like, did that immediately take 173 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:29,560 off? Was it a slower? 174 00:08:30,350 --> 00:08:35,030 Well, for that one for me I was. So just on a ride that I think I 175 00:08:35,030 --> 00:08:38,830 think if I look at it like from like a meta meta level, there 176 00:08:38,830 --> 00:08:42,390 was like the ride that it took me on in terms of, you know, 177 00:08:42,390 --> 00:08:45,230 just being a part of something like that where most everybody 178 00:08:45,230 --> 00:08:46,590 was unknown. We got to work with Frank 179 00:08:46,590 --> 00:08:50,710 Dermont, which was incredible. And then to feel, I remember 180 00:08:50,790 --> 00:08:52,710 that that's the first thing I've ever really been on. 181 00:08:52,710 --> 00:08:56,230 And to have the rumbling while we were shooting like episode 182 00:08:56,230 --> 00:08:58,270 three, people are like, this is really good. 183 00:08:58,270 --> 00:09:00,430 And I don't know. I don't know what that means. 184 00:09:00,470 --> 00:09:02,670 Like, I'm listening to Jeff Dumon. 185 00:09:02,910 --> 00:09:06,070 He wasn't saying that because he was wise enough not to say stuff 186 00:09:06,070 --> 00:09:08,270 like that. But like, you know, there were 187 00:09:08,270 --> 00:09:11,760 people that were like, this is feeling really good and I was 188 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:15,600 just enjoying it. And that took me on A7 year ride 189 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,800 where I got to see maybe not all the extremes of Hollywood, but I 190 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,360 got to touch a lot of things. I saw a lot of things. 191 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,040 And I don't mean that in like some way or like I saw some dark 192 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,040 nefarious stuff. I just mean more like, oh, I see 193 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:33,000 how this business can be psychologically difficult at 194 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,360 times. It can be emotionally draining. 195 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:40,120 It can be a weird social reality. 196 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,200 I I experienced a lot short period of time very quickly. 197 00:09:43,560 --> 00:09:45,000 I'm just grateful for that experience. 198 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,920 I got to act being an Asian American guy, being a Korean 199 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:53,280 American guy in a post apocalyptic reality where nobody 200 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,520 cared that I was Korean American before the world had even caught 201 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:02,400 up to that idea. And I feel like if I had gotten 202 00:10:02,680 --> 00:10:06,080 maybe the other pilots that I was close to, which were like 203 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,680 Office comedies or you know, something that was rooted in 204 00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:12,400 like our current reality, I don't know if I would have been 205 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:16,440 able to see myself as clear. I I think I could have been very 206 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:20,840 easily reduced to like the role that someone like that looks 207 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,800 like me shouldn't have it in a reality that makes sense. 208 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:25,960 And I would have just bought into it because I was young and 209 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,000 like impressionable and. You want to work? 210 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:28,880 I want to work. Yeah. 211 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:30,000 I was like, what do you want me to do? 212 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,920 I'm a plucky assistant. I'll be a plucky assistant, you 213 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,640 know, But then like to have this carte blanche in a way to like 214 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:37,800 really grow my character overtime. 215 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,880 And it was weird, unintentional therapy for me, of kind of 216 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,360 deconstructing the way that I viewed myself as a person in 217 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,360 this place, looking the way that I do and so. 218 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,160 Just, you mean in the industry And yeah, in the industry and at 219 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:56,120 times in in real reality too. You know, I I came up doing 220 00:10:56,120 --> 00:11:00,320 Second City Theater in. Chicago in Chicago and I had a 221 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:02,080 great time. And those are some of my 222 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,600 favorite years where like, you know when you're doing improv, 223 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:06,960 nobody cares also what your ethnicity is. 224 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,480 They're just kind of like we're just playing make believe, make 225 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:11,160 them up. So we're just fucking around and 226 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:13,400 I appreciated that. But then once things got 227 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:18,200 scripted in like sketch world, then it became like hyper aware 228 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,240 of like what you're able to play and like how the joke is 229 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,560 actually crafted around the way that you are and look. 230 00:11:26,020 --> 00:11:30,100 And the comedy was very rigid in that way where where you're self 231 00:11:30,100 --> 00:11:32,980 aware of yourself. But for me, I was a young kid, I 232 00:11:32,980 --> 00:11:35,860 was not self aware like that. I was just kind of like I wasn't 233 00:11:35,860 --> 00:11:38,900 even in this like confident place to like properly make fun 234 00:11:38,900 --> 00:11:40,580 of myself from a confident place. 235 00:11:40,580 --> 00:11:44,820 I was just leading with self deprecation as like this payment 236 00:11:44,820 --> 00:11:47,780 to be around in a way, if that makes sense. 237 00:11:47,820 --> 00:11:51,970 And so it helped me really detox a lot of that stuff. 238 00:11:51,970 --> 00:11:53,770 Yeah, that was my experience on Walking Dead. 239 00:11:53,770 --> 00:11:57,730 It was a very strange trip that I'm very, very, very grateful 240 00:11:57,730 --> 00:11:59,210 for. Was it a hit right away? 241 00:11:59,370 --> 00:12:01,090 Yeah, it was, wasn't it? Yeah, pretty much 242 00:12:01,170 --> 00:12:02,370 out-of-the-box. Popped off. 243 00:12:02,370 --> 00:12:04,570 It was like, one day I walked into a Best Buy and nobody 244 00:12:04,570 --> 00:12:06,210 cared. And then the next day they're 245 00:12:06,210 --> 00:12:08,330 like, are you the guy? And then, like, I remember 246 00:12:08,330 --> 00:12:11,690 feeling so shocked at that. It kind of fucked me up. 247 00:12:11,690 --> 00:12:13,690 But I dealt with it. We're good. 248 00:12:14,810 --> 00:12:17,730 Yeah, there's an abruptness to those things that some. 249 00:12:18,180 --> 00:12:21,340 Truly, like with The Sopranos, I had been around a bit and like 250 00:12:21,340 --> 00:12:24,060 Goodfellas was a very popular movie, so people would know you 251 00:12:24,060 --> 00:12:26,860 from here and there. But all of a sudden it got very, 252 00:12:27,020 --> 00:12:29,420 very different very quickly because, you know, that kind of 253 00:12:29,420 --> 00:12:32,380 consistency of TV and, yeah, and you're in the intimacy of 254 00:12:32,380 --> 00:12:34,020 people's homes. Yeah. 255 00:12:34,100 --> 00:12:35,980 Yeah. There's definitely a period of 256 00:12:35,980 --> 00:12:38,420 adjustment to that, Yeah. Did that go well for you? 257 00:12:38,420 --> 00:12:40,700 Was that easy for you? I don't know. 258 00:12:40,700 --> 00:12:43,500 I wouldn't say easy. It was interesting when the 259 00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:46,700 Spano said it was before social media and really before everyone 260 00:12:46,700 --> 00:12:50,100 had phones. Capability to video and take 261 00:12:50,100 --> 00:12:52,780 pictures all the time, yeah. Which was probably a good thing, 262 00:12:52,900 --> 00:12:57,380 because, yeah, Oh my God. You know, it was a little, it 263 00:12:57,460 --> 00:13:00,140 was a little bit more anonymity and especially when you have 264 00:13:00,140 --> 00:13:03,420 young kids, there's a there's a little, I mean now it's a lot 265 00:13:03,420 --> 00:13:05,260 more relaxed. But when the kids were young, 266 00:13:05,260 --> 00:13:08,460 when The Sopranos hit, actually my youngest wasn't even born. 267 00:13:08,460 --> 00:13:11,460 He was born in 2001. And there's this you know a 268 00:13:11,460 --> 00:13:14,620 balance to wanting to kind of protect them and the and some 269 00:13:14,620 --> 00:13:18,100 privacy and and things like that and them kind of navigate. 270 00:13:18,180 --> 00:13:19,780 Gating that as well. Like what's? 271 00:13:20,340 --> 00:13:22,020 Yeah, I'm finding that with my kids. 272 00:13:22,020 --> 00:13:24,180 But they're they're young, but they're also how. 273 00:13:24,220 --> 00:13:27,460 Old are your kids six and four. Oh yeah, You're in deep. 274 00:13:27,620 --> 00:13:29,420 Yeah, I'm in. I'm in deep. 275 00:13:29,500 --> 00:13:32,940 You see the bag? That's the beginning, yeah, but 276 00:13:33,500 --> 00:13:36,380 it's a it goes very quickly, believe it or not. 277 00:13:36,380 --> 00:13:38,020 It doesn't seem like it in the midst of it. 278 00:13:38,020 --> 00:13:41,140 But and but it's it's wonderful. Those are wonderful ages. 279 00:13:41,620 --> 00:13:42,940 I'm. We're having a great time. 280 00:13:42,940 --> 00:13:45,420 I'm of course, and that's kind of what I meant earlier, too, of 281 00:13:45,420 --> 00:13:49,760 just like seeing from afar and making a lot of assumptions 282 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:51,440 about how to navigate that stuff. 283 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,600 But I always appreciate when I see an actor that's feels like, 284 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,240 you know you're doing your best. But going home every weekend, 285 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,760 that's like, that's not easy. That's not to. 286 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,520 That's not easy. No no it's not but you know you 287 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,280 you make it work, right. They would come out when they 288 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:12,360 could and you know on vacations if I was on location and after 289 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,960 The Sopranos I was on location a lot you know and different 290 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,640 sometimes out of the country or you know different parts of the 291 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:22,480 of America and and you know you just do your best and but what 292 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,600 was that like to do Sopranos and then do all this work this great 293 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,550 work in between And then not that they're like completely 294 00:14:30,550 --> 00:14:33,870 tangential or like completely mixed but like it felt like that 295 00:14:33,870 --> 00:14:37,390 must have been so fun to go to Italy for White Lotus. 296 00:14:37,870 --> 00:14:38,350 I don't know. I'm. 297 00:14:38,510 --> 00:14:42,230 Assuming it was. I mean, I was pretty much when 298 00:14:42,270 --> 00:14:44,870 when they said there was interest in me for Season 2 299 00:14:44,870 --> 00:14:46,910 White Lotus, I had not seen season one. 300 00:14:46,910 --> 00:14:49,510 I'd heard it was really good, but they said, well, it shoots 301 00:14:49,510 --> 00:14:52,390 for four months in Sicily and I was immediately like, unless 302 00:14:52,390 --> 00:14:53,720 this is. Horrendous. 303 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,640 I'm going to want to do it. Obviously I had been to Sicily 304 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,320 before and I've been to other parts of Italy many times, and 305 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,000 my I have family that still lives in Italy. 306 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,400 So we had been, we had actually been to the place where we 307 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,680 filmed in Taormina, and I've always wanted to work. 308 00:15:09,060 --> 00:15:12,020 I had not worked well. I we shot a soprano episode in 309 00:15:12,180 --> 00:15:13,700 in Naples. That was the only time I worked 310 00:15:13,700 --> 00:15:17,460 there but I was dying to like do a gig there and that was that 311 00:15:17,460 --> 00:15:21,300 was a real thrill and and we shot in a small town tower mean 312 00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:23,980 is relatively small especially in the in the summer it gets 313 00:15:23,980 --> 00:15:27,620 very busy because it's a touristy place but when we were 314 00:15:27,620 --> 00:15:31,260 there from the end of February was very quiet and we kind of 315 00:15:31,260 --> 00:15:34,060 had the town to ourselves in a way and really fell into the 316 00:15:34,060 --> 00:15:37,420 rhythm of that small town, Sicilian. 317 00:15:37,900 --> 00:15:39,660 Lifestyle. And it was really fun. 318 00:15:39,820 --> 00:15:43,300 Oh my God, you guys got like an old world rendering of that 319 00:15:43,300 --> 00:15:45,420 place. Maybe that has never happened 320 00:15:45,420 --> 00:15:48,180 before. It was very exciting because we 321 00:15:48,180 --> 00:15:52,700 were, the hotel where we shot was closed, except we were 322 00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:55,700 there, the crew and cast and the staff. 323 00:15:55,980 --> 00:15:59,180 So we were living there and shooting there, which was 324 00:15:59,180 --> 00:16:02,060 incredibly fun, you know, to, you know, take the. 325 00:16:02,570 --> 00:16:05,490 The elevator to work, you know, it was pretty Did you become 326 00:16:05,490 --> 00:16:08,810 weird, de facto tour guide? Did they make you tour guide or 327 00:16:08,890 --> 00:16:10,970 you You were like, Nah man, I'm just gonna do my own thing. 328 00:16:11,690 --> 00:16:15,970 You know we we did little day trips and and you can take the 329 00:16:15,970 --> 00:16:19,010 train really easily there. So there was somebody on the 330 00:16:19,010 --> 00:16:23,090 crew who really knew everywhere to go that you know was from 331 00:16:23,090 --> 00:16:26,010 there and really helped us out. But you know, you find a couple, 332 00:16:26,010 --> 00:16:29,450 a handful of cool places and. When I'm on location, I like to 333 00:16:29,450 --> 00:16:33,530 find 123 good places and then just go there all the time and 334 00:16:33,530 --> 00:16:36,610 they get to know you and they take care of you and you always 335 00:16:36,610 --> 00:16:38,410 get a seat. That's what I like to do. 336 00:16:38,410 --> 00:16:40,930 And I did that in Sicily. You know, you try a few and 337 00:16:40,930 --> 00:16:43,050 whatever's good. You just keep going and you make 338 00:16:43,050 --> 00:16:46,450 friends and you tip well and yeah, and then you have friends 339 00:16:46,450 --> 00:16:50,020 and you know what's nice. I think our job is a really nice 340 00:16:50,140 --> 00:16:53,260 job to travel with because you you go somewhere and you 341 00:16:53,260 --> 00:16:55,660 immediately meet people from that place, you know, because a 342 00:16:55,660 --> 00:16:59,700 lot of our crew were Italian and you meet people from that area 343 00:16:59,700 --> 00:17:03,180 who know it. And very different than going as 344 00:17:03,180 --> 00:17:07,220 a tourist, you know, that's one of the benefits I think of what 345 00:17:07,220 --> 00:17:09,339 we do. And it feels like too. 346 00:17:09,339 --> 00:17:12,700 Like, I I've gotten to work in Korea a couple times, and every 347 00:17:12,700 --> 00:17:16,550 time I go back, I feel like there's like a part of my, like 348 00:17:16,670 --> 00:17:19,349 body that shifts. Or like maybe the easiest way to 349 00:17:19,349 --> 00:17:21,710 be like, oh, like there's like a part of my consciousness that 350 00:17:21,710 --> 00:17:24,030 opens up. But I also feel like it like 351 00:17:24,030 --> 00:17:28,230 changes my genes or something when I go back to Korea and like 352 00:17:28,310 --> 00:17:31,510 work there for a long time. When was the first time you went 353 00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:33,950 to Korea? So I was born in Korea. 354 00:17:34,070 --> 00:17:36,830 Oh, you were born there? Yeah, but I moved when I was 4, 355 00:17:36,870 --> 00:17:40,870 so I was very aware of having moved. 356 00:17:40,910 --> 00:17:43,190 And then I didn't go back. I went back periodically when I 357 00:17:43,190 --> 00:17:46,910 was like 8th grade and like a little bit in college and they 358 00:17:46,910 --> 00:17:49,590 didn't go back for a year or for like a 10 years. 359 00:17:49,670 --> 00:17:53,110 And then I got to go back professionally to shoot this 360 00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:56,110 movie called Okjar. And then I got to do this 361 00:17:56,110 --> 00:17:59,070 succession of like other Korean projects of Okja. 362 00:17:59,070 --> 00:18:01,750 And then I got to do this other film called Burning There. 363 00:18:01,830 --> 00:18:05,930 Doing burning there really kind of unlocked my brain a little 364 00:18:05,930 --> 00:18:09,490 bit, just feeling that place and like being there. 365 00:18:09,490 --> 00:18:12,930 And yeah, I probably did a blasphemous thing, but my 366 00:18:12,930 --> 00:18:15,810 character at the time in that movie was such kind of like a 367 00:18:16,330 --> 00:18:19,490 ritualistic person. So I just hate Subway every day, 368 00:18:19,490 --> 00:18:22,860 which? In in Korea? 369 00:18:26,220 --> 00:18:30,540 You always spoke the language since when you were a kid, yeah. 370 00:18:23,220 --> 00:18:25,900 Yeah, the best Korean food. And I fucking ate Subway every. 371 00:18:31,180 --> 00:18:33,700 That's great. I was born in New York and my 372 00:18:33,700 --> 00:18:37,380 father was born here. But my my father's father was 373 00:18:37,380 --> 00:18:39,740 born in Italy. So there were about six or seven 374 00:18:39,740 --> 00:18:42,540 kids, and half of them came my grandfather's siblings, Half of 375 00:18:42,540 --> 00:18:44,420 them came to the US and the other half stayed. 376 00:18:44,420 --> 00:18:46,820 So there's a lot of family there outside of Rome. 377 00:18:46,980 --> 00:18:51,180 I never went till I was 25 and I went to Rome and I remember. 378 00:18:51,380 --> 00:18:54,380 I I was in Paris for a while, and then I went to Rome, checked 379 00:18:54,380 --> 00:18:56,660 into the place where I was staying, and then went for a 380 00:18:56,660 --> 00:18:58,220 walk. And it was right in the center 381 00:18:58,220 --> 00:19:01,820 historical center of Rome. And it was one of the weirdest, 382 00:19:02,140 --> 00:19:05,820 trippiest things I I ever experienced. 383 00:19:05,860 --> 00:19:09,020 And still kind of experienced it now, but that first time, 384 00:19:09,020 --> 00:19:11,900 because it was, there were so many things that were familiar, 385 00:19:12,700 --> 00:19:20,940 like faces and smells and sounds and light and stuff and yet. 386 00:19:21,300 --> 00:19:23,740 It also was foreign. I never had that experience 387 00:19:23,740 --> 00:19:27,300 anywhere else because there's definitely, I mean that part of 388 00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:30,580 the world is where, you know, yeah my family's from there's 389 00:19:30,580 --> 00:19:34,380 there's is this connection and I remember I got there I was with 390 00:19:34,700 --> 00:19:37,660 an ex-girlfriend, you know when I was young and I had a phone 391 00:19:37,660 --> 00:19:41,700 number of my aunt and I called and I I'm studying Italian now, 392 00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:44,460 but I I've always had just like very pigeon Italian. 393 00:19:44,460 --> 00:19:46,980 So I'm trying to really the last year I've been really making 394 00:19:46,980 --> 00:19:50,390 attempt to learn a little more. And I called up and I told them 395 00:19:50,390 --> 00:19:52,950 who I was, and they're like, oh, we're going to have dinner come 396 00:19:52,950 --> 00:19:55,350 over. So we got on the subway and we 397 00:19:55,350 --> 00:19:57,910 go over to that. And I I had only met the great 398 00:19:57,910 --> 00:19:59,750 aunt. So then there was another aunt 399 00:19:59,750 --> 00:20:02,230 who was my father's age and my cousin my age, and I had never 400 00:20:02,230 --> 00:20:04,110 met them. And we're trying to communicate. 401 00:20:04,110 --> 00:20:05,230 You know, they didn't speak English. 402 00:20:05,230 --> 00:20:07,750 I spoke hardly, hardly Italian, not really. 403 00:20:08,150 --> 00:20:10,310 But we're communicating. And then they serve dinner, 404 00:20:10,310 --> 00:20:13,150 which was pasta. Now here's where it got really 405 00:20:13,150 --> 00:20:16,510 trippy. The sauce from the pasta tasted 406 00:20:16,510 --> 00:20:20,480 exactly like. The sauce that was made in my 407 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:24,080 grandfather's house because, wow, my great grandmother moved, 408 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,280 you know, to the US and live with my grandfather. 409 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,720 So that was her recipe and the same. 410 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,160 It was exactly the same taste. Wow. 411 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,680 And that kind of blew my mind because it was like, oh, this is 412 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,000 this is the recipe that kind of was started here. 413 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,080 You're like time traveling. You're like physically 414 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:42,160 traveling. Yeah. 415 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,560 You're like alternate dimension. That's amazing. 416 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,560 Yeah. It was really, really well, very 417 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:47,440 emotional. Very. 418 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,560 That first day was it was really overwhelming. 419 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,520 The kind of sensorial stimulation was like, it was 420 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,520 wow. And you see in people's like 421 00:20:56,870 --> 00:21:00,870 mannerisms and speech patterns, like elements of your own family 422 00:21:00,870 --> 00:21:02,510 and like, yeah, yeah, it's interesting. 423 00:21:02,550 --> 00:21:04,710 Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's beautiful that way. 424 00:21:04,710 --> 00:21:08,270 I felt like it was really fun to watch you in White Lotus to see 425 00:21:08,270 --> 00:21:11,230 you choose like the comfort of being there. 426 00:21:11,230 --> 00:21:14,030 Your character was like, yeah, we come here, we do this thing 427 00:21:14,070 --> 00:21:16,270 and like, I know this place and I do this thing. 428 00:21:16,270 --> 00:21:19,270 And that's always an interesting thing to kind of like see or 429 00:21:19,270 --> 00:21:21,470 feel when you're, when you're watching somebody. 430 00:21:22,070 --> 00:21:24,590 Especially when the show is like here's a foreign place where 431 00:21:24,590 --> 00:21:26,970 like. The other half of your cast is 432 00:21:26,970 --> 00:21:30,090 vacationing there, right? And you're just kind of sitting 433 00:21:30,090 --> 00:21:33,450 in the pocket of that place. Yeah, And experiencing whatever 434 00:21:33,450 --> 00:21:35,730 connection that is because there is a connection. 435 00:21:35,810 --> 00:21:37,970 And at the same time, you're a foreigner. 436 00:21:38,170 --> 00:21:40,410 That's the other thing. And so there's this weird 437 00:21:40,410 --> 00:21:43,410 disconnect, this, you know, the connection and disconnection. 438 00:21:43,490 --> 00:21:46,450 I've been back to Italy many times since that first trip, but 439 00:21:46,930 --> 00:21:50,590 I really, really love it. Yeah, love being there every 440 00:21:50,590 --> 00:21:53,270 minute. Do you go often to just visit 441 00:21:53,350 --> 00:21:56,870 and spend time there? In the last decade plus, I've 442 00:21:56,870 --> 00:21:59,830 gone to mostly work. I haven't really gone to 443 00:21:59,830 --> 00:22:03,150 vacation. I hope we can do that more now. 444 00:22:03,150 --> 00:22:04,590 Now that the kids are a little older. 445 00:22:04,590 --> 00:22:05,870 Yeah. So we're looking forward to 446 00:22:05,870 --> 00:22:06,710 that. Yeah. 447 00:22:06,750 --> 00:22:11,550 We made this joke in our show about peninsula mentality and 448 00:22:11,550 --> 00:22:14,150 how Koreans and Italians are the same. 449 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:19,440 Oh, right, because they're they're surrounded on three 450 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,200 side. We just made a bunch of bullshit 451 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:23,640 up. We were just talking, ringing 452 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,200 off the yeah. But like, it was funny to make 453 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,560 parallels of just like there's like food, there's like family. 454 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:37,000 Family culture, fashion, like it's it's a it's a similar kind 455 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,280 of thing. I feel like have cars, even 456 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,920 tradition, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. Like ritual, kind of family 457 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,800 ritual and cultural ritual and stuff like that. 458 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,800 That becomes very important. Yeah, and a little bit of a vibe 459 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,240 of like, I wouldn't even call it superiority. 460 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,000 I would call it like chippy superiority, like one that's 461 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,040 built off of like have at least on the Korean side that feels 462 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:00,840 like a little bit of a chip on our shoulder. 463 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:02,520 So we're kind of like trying to flex. 464 00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:05,320 I don't know what the Italian one is rooted in. 465 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,360 Y'all had roamed. So wow. 466 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,040 They they, yeah, I remember I read something. 467 00:23:11,820 --> 00:23:13,740 Well, I forget exactly what it was. 468 00:23:13,740 --> 00:23:16,620 They were saying, what's some of your favorite things about the 469 00:23:16,620 --> 00:23:20,660 culture was just being Italian. That's what Italian said being 470 00:23:20,660 --> 00:23:23,220 Italian is. There's a certain like a flex or 471 00:23:23,220 --> 00:23:27,020 a swag that comes with that with just like there's a really great 472 00:23:27,020 --> 00:23:30,260 word in Italian that doesn't really have a translation in 473 00:23:30,260 --> 00:23:34,380 English and it's called sprezzatura, which means doing 474 00:23:34,380 --> 00:23:37,580 something difficult but making it look like it's very easy. 475 00:23:39,060 --> 00:23:42,280 Like, you know, like dressing really good, but making it look 476 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,040 like you just put it together, you know, there's a, there's an 477 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,560 awareness. Like I went to this restaurant 478 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,680 in Positano right on the water called, I think it's called Shea 479 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,480 Black. And they made this very simple 480 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,640 pasta, right? Like, it was like spaghetti with 481 00:23:56,120 --> 00:23:59,880 these little round tomatoes that grow in the volcanic soil of 482 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,680 Vesuvius with like garlic and a little bit of cheese and olive 483 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,520 oil. Very simple, but one of the best 484 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,000 things I've ever eaten. And I told the manager, I said 485 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,370 this pasta, this is one of the greatest things I've ever had. 486 00:24:11,370 --> 00:24:14,290 And he said in the day he goes this, the chef, he makes this 487 00:24:14,290 --> 00:24:16,410 with one hand and the other hand, he's talking to his mother 488 00:24:16,410 --> 00:24:19,490 on the telephone. You know, it's like like, ah, 489 00:24:19,610 --> 00:24:21,130 that's good. That's very Italian. 490 00:24:21,130 --> 00:24:23,970 But all the but all the preparation to make that thing 491 00:24:23,970 --> 00:24:28,690 good, all the work is embedded into like everything before it. 492 00:24:28,810 --> 00:24:31,570 Yes, right. Like growing that tomato, of 493 00:24:31,610 --> 00:24:34,130 course. Picking that tomato, knowing 494 00:24:34,130 --> 00:24:36,730 just the right amount of olive oil to put into that pasta. 495 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,920 I think simple's not easy. Simply che known fat Chile. 496 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:42,080 That's what they say. Simple. 497 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,720 Simple, but not easy. Yeah, because if you if you 498 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,000 there's only there's nowhere to hide anything. 499 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,560 There's only a few ingredients. Yeah. 500 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,520 If you don't get the proportions right or the preparation right, 501 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,200 it's you don't. Have it Totally, totally. 502 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,840 I feel that. I mean, not I, I mean, I didn't 503 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,080 know I was going to go here, but like that's that's kind of how I 504 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,840 feel about having watched your performance. 505 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,120 It feels that way. It feels like. 506 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,320 Watching you in White Lotus and in Sopranos, it never felt like 507 00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:11,360 calculated. It felt very lived in. 508 00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:14,960 It felt very like you did a lot of the work unseen. 509 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,640 Ah, I kind of felt the same way about watching you in Beef. 510 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,960 There was a simplicity. And again, simple is not easy. 511 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,240 And honesty and trusting that what you're bringing is enough, 512 00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:29,920 you know? So I think sometimes as actors 513 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,620 in the past, always feel like there's there's you have to do, 514 00:25:33,940 --> 00:25:36,060 you know, you got to be doing more and doing more. 515 00:25:36,060 --> 00:25:41,020 And over the years I've tried to do less and do less, not do more 516 00:25:41,020 --> 00:25:42,860 than what's needed. You know, there's certain 517 00:25:42,860 --> 00:25:45,820 demands that have to be met when you play certain characters that 518 00:25:45,900 --> 00:25:48,020 just have to know, like The Sopranos. 519 00:25:48,180 --> 00:25:51,100 When I started that show, I based my character on somebody 520 00:25:51,100 --> 00:25:55,690 that I actually knew who was a very well. 521 00:25:55,690 --> 00:25:59,210 He was an Italian American from New York and he was very loosely 522 00:25:59,210 --> 00:26:01,570 involved with the mob. He wasn't a made made guy, but 523 00:26:01,570 --> 00:26:03,330 he had. He'd gotten involved with people 524 00:26:03,330 --> 00:26:07,490 adjacent to the mob and then had to leave, you know, New York 525 00:26:07,490 --> 00:26:11,090 because of it, had aspirations about being an actor too at some 526 00:26:11,090 --> 00:26:12,570 point, but then that didn't work out. 527 00:26:12,970 --> 00:26:16,090 But emotionally, what was interesting about him, he was 528 00:26:16,770 --> 00:26:21,780 his reaction to things was so, like, so much like it almost 529 00:26:21,780 --> 00:26:24,660 looked like bad acted like I couldn't believe he was that 530 00:26:24,660 --> 00:26:26,220 invested in everything. Yeah. 531 00:26:26,220 --> 00:26:28,380 And I thought that was really kind of interesting because 532 00:26:28,820 --> 00:26:30,460 that's not me, you know, I'm not like that. 533 00:26:30,820 --> 00:26:33,780 So I used that in the beginning. And then, you know, once the 534 00:26:33,780 --> 00:26:37,220 show got started, you just kind of, you know that the engines 535 00:26:37,220 --> 00:26:39,540 that you just turned the key, the engines already built. 536 00:26:39,540 --> 00:26:41,380 But building the engine, I kind of used him. 537 00:26:41,380 --> 00:26:43,660 I never thought about him again, probably after the pilot. 538 00:26:44,540 --> 00:26:49,060 But with White Lotus, I really made an attempt to do as little 539 00:26:49,060 --> 00:26:52,460 as possible like it was. It was really, really, really 540 00:26:52,460 --> 00:26:55,220 deliberate. I always try to try to find 541 00:26:55,220 --> 00:26:57,900 Parallels, You know, as much as I can. 542 00:26:58,820 --> 00:27:00,500 Did you have a good time shooting beef? 543 00:27:01,540 --> 00:27:04,460 I had, I did. I I had a good time. 544 00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:06,980 It was. It was only painful in so much 545 00:27:06,980 --> 00:27:12,580 as that I had to, like stay in a mindset that I myself, as kind 546 00:27:12,580 --> 00:27:14,940 of an immigrant, have been trying to shed my whole life, 547 00:27:15,860 --> 00:27:19,480 kind of a very deep scarcity. You know, but like staying in 548 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:24,280 it, justifying his reality from that place, like all of it, it 549 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,960 felt closer to your performance. And Sopranos in that way, where 550 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:32,800 like, my guy is also big at times, almost kind of like he 551 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,600 needs to, like, tell everybody that he's feeling this way so 552 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,520 that, yes, you know, like it becomes a performance on a 553 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,280 performance. He can't just, like, live with 554 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,600 the feeling. He has to, like, alert everybody 555 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,790 that. This is happening to him. 556 00:27:45,830 --> 00:27:49,510 When you said deep scarcity, you mean in terms of the immigrant 557 00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:52,030 experience and? Yeah, in that way, yeah. 558 00:27:52,030 --> 00:27:54,030 Just kind of opportunity and things like that. 559 00:27:54,470 --> 00:27:56,310 Gotta get it. If you don't have it means 560 00:27:56,310 --> 00:27:58,710 you're not anything like you must eat it. 561 00:27:58,710 --> 00:28:03,390 Now you might go away like never be satisfied, never be grateful, 562 00:28:03,510 --> 00:28:06,670 just kind of live in this space at this mentality. 563 00:28:06,910 --> 00:28:11,110 So it was fun because I was with friends and we were making, 564 00:28:11,790 --> 00:28:15,480 we're just laughing, you were friends with with some of the 565 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,640 other actors and and yeah. Creator, Yeah, with the With the 566 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,040 creator Sunny Ally I met. Ally was really wonderful. 567 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,160 We met before, but we didn't get to ever work together. 568 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,200 I didn't know her very well until this show. 569 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,120 With Sunny, just kind of getting to reminisce about kind of what 570 00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:34,360 you said, like our friend who's like this and why is he this 571 00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:36,760 way? And is that us too? 572 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,370 Are we this way? Or like, there's parts of us 573 00:28:39,370 --> 00:28:41,050 that are like, oh, remember that at church? 574 00:28:41,050 --> 00:28:43,090 Like how weird that was? Did you have that too? 575 00:28:43,090 --> 00:28:47,730 And it turns out like, we did. And then life gets weird and 576 00:28:48,770 --> 00:28:50,370 just fun. It's fun that way. 577 00:28:50,370 --> 00:28:54,330 So at what point did you get involved in the your producer on 578 00:28:54,330 --> 00:28:56,890 it as well? So were you on it and involved 579 00:28:56,890 --> 00:28:59,770 in the inception of it and the creation of it as well and well? 580 00:28:59,770 --> 00:29:03,050 Sonny came to me a couple years back and was like, hey, I want 581 00:29:03,050 --> 00:29:05,130 to write this show about road rage incident. 582 00:29:05,130 --> 00:29:08,570 This road rage incident, I was like, oh, that was the the road 583 00:29:08,850 --> 00:29:10,370 rage, yeah. Yeah, he was like road rage. 584 00:29:10,410 --> 00:29:13,130 And then, you know, him and I have known each other for a 585 00:29:13,130 --> 00:29:17,010 while and most of our conversations start at some dumb 586 00:29:17,010 --> 00:29:20,490 thing and then they end up at like, why does God exist or what 587 00:29:20,490 --> 00:29:21,690 is that? What is God? 588 00:29:21,810 --> 00:29:23,450 You know, we just existentially loop. 589 00:29:23,650 --> 00:29:27,050 But as we got into it, yeah, we we, we started developing it 590 00:29:27,050 --> 00:29:28,770 more. And then when Ali jumped aboard, 591 00:29:28,770 --> 00:29:33,450 it really, like, made sense. There was something really it it 592 00:29:33,450 --> 00:29:37,170 felt right and so. Yeah, the whole trip of it was 593 00:29:37,170 --> 00:29:41,250 really bizarre and fun and strange and all of that comes 594 00:29:41,250 --> 00:29:43,450 into the show. It feels in the show, 595 00:29:43,530 --> 00:29:46,450 bizarreness, strangeness, fun, you know, fun humor. 596 00:29:46,450 --> 00:29:50,330 It's, you know, I know I I, I've heard that Sonny talk about The 597 00:29:50,330 --> 00:29:52,770 Sopranos and that that that was an influence. 598 00:29:52,890 --> 00:29:55,930 I know him. But you know that that edge of 599 00:29:56,370 --> 00:30:00,700 you know, real scary stuff, tragic stuff, you know 600 00:30:00,700 --> 00:30:03,620 emotional. I mean your character's really 601 00:30:03,700 --> 00:30:06,860 lost it seems and you know really lost. 602 00:30:06,860 --> 00:30:09,420 And look and searching for meaning, right. 603 00:30:09,900 --> 00:30:13,100 What, where, what has meaning and where and? 604 00:30:13,100 --> 00:30:16,380 Especially when all the meaning that he's been ascribed or 605 00:30:16,460 --> 00:30:20,900 conditioned to believe in was intrinsic, like capitalist 606 00:30:20,900 --> 00:30:22,860 value. Like how much money are you 607 00:30:22,860 --> 00:30:24,500 making? What's your status in this 608 00:30:24,500 --> 00:30:25,420 place? And? 609 00:30:26,110 --> 00:30:28,950 When he when, when, when he's living in America where they 610 00:30:28,950 --> 00:30:31,470 say, where we say like, you can be whatever you want and it's 611 00:30:31,470 --> 00:30:33,910 like, what do you mean? I can only, I can only be three 612 00:30:33,910 --> 00:30:35,750 things. I mean doctor, lawyer, dentist, 613 00:30:35,750 --> 00:30:37,830 like that's all I can I I gotta do these things. 614 00:30:37,830 --> 00:30:41,430 I gotta make money. And I I think spiritually, what 615 00:30:41,430 --> 00:30:45,630 Sonny was always pointing at with Sopranos was maybe the 616 00:30:45,630 --> 00:30:49,950 boldness to, like, let people in on a little bit of the cringy 617 00:30:49,950 --> 00:30:53,950 stuff that you usually don't lead with from a community. 618 00:30:54,210 --> 00:30:56,210 Not that Sopranos was. I don't know if it was for you, 619 00:30:56,210 --> 00:30:58,370 but, like, I don't know if it was like some like Italian 620 00:30:58,370 --> 00:31:01,570 American plant or flag plant. It wasn't like some like, yeah. 621 00:31:01,570 --> 00:31:02,730 And neither was B. For us. 622 00:31:02,730 --> 00:31:06,370 It wasn't like we're telling you what Koreans are like or Asian 623 00:31:06,370 --> 00:31:09,090 Americans are like It was more for us. 624 00:31:09,210 --> 00:31:12,210 You know, when I watched Sopranos, I'm just like, usually 625 00:31:12,210 --> 00:31:18,250 Tony is supposed to just be like a fucking rad, like Don, just 626 00:31:18,250 --> 00:31:21,250 like dominating people, doing whatever he wants. 627 00:31:21,610 --> 00:31:24,680 But. He also goes to therapy and he 628 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:29,040 has moments of weakness and you show you show aspects of 629 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:33,120 yourself that are like pathetic at times and that I felt like 630 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,160 was the spirit of it. Just this unabashed boldness. 631 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:41,960 To just exist. To to to just exist, yeah. 632 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:47,040 And that I mean the the dark part of that culture. 633 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,360 You know there's racism and homophobia and sexism and all 634 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,480 those things that smallmindedness that I mean I 635 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,080 certainly you know grew up around to some degree. 636 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,920 You know not everybody but the the the cool thing is that 637 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:06,240 people get I think the audience understands it's like you know 638 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,760 they're presenting this is how it everyone knows that there's 639 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,960 racism We're we're let's not pretend it doesn't exist and 640 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:18,410 it's like yeah you know the dichotomy of my grandfather who 641 00:32:18,410 --> 00:32:20,930 was an inch you know grew actually my my mother's father 642 00:32:20,930 --> 00:32:23,770 grew up here a few blocks away from where I live right now grew 643 00:32:23,770 --> 00:32:26,850 up in a tenement right here. You know, father died when the 644 00:32:26,850 --> 00:32:29,570 kids were young, was single mother with like 6 kids, one of 645 00:32:29,570 --> 00:32:32,130 whom was severely autistic. And they they all had to leave 646 00:32:32,130 --> 00:32:35,730 school really early and work and you know, that kind of, you 647 00:32:35,730 --> 00:32:38,530 know, existence and stuff. And my grandfather could say, 648 00:32:38,530 --> 00:32:42,210 sometimes would say the most horrendously racist things, 649 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,960 particularly about black people. Yet at the same time he was a 650 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,000 super in an apartment building that are mostly, you know, 651 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,080 African Americans. And sometimes on weekends he 652 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,800 would drive there were two women whose husbands were in prison 653 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,120 upstate and he would drive them upstate because they had no way 654 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,520 to get there. And then the next day he'd say 655 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,160 some horrendous thing. He's like, well, she's not like 656 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,160 that. She's she's, you know, good. 657 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,340 You know, I grew up seeing that kind of, yeah, dichotomy in 658 00:33:13,340 --> 00:33:15,860 people who could, you know, who, you know, there's this level of 659 00:33:15,860 --> 00:33:19,580 ignorance and fear. And I mean, I'm not defending 660 00:33:19,580 --> 00:33:22,860 his racism by any means, sure, But I loved him, you know? 661 00:33:22,860 --> 00:33:24,020 Defending it. I mean, you're not even 662 00:33:24,020 --> 00:33:25,420 defending. You're just showing his 663 00:33:25,420 --> 00:33:27,780 humanity. I I yeah, yeah. 664 00:33:27,820 --> 00:33:30,420 I feel like that makes so much sense to me. 665 00:33:30,420 --> 00:33:32,940 Not as a defense of these things, but more like. 666 00:33:34,540 --> 00:33:38,500 It's easy to slip back in your small mindedness and fearful 667 00:33:38,500 --> 00:33:41,740 brain when the chips are stacked against you and you're just 668 00:33:41,740 --> 00:33:44,100 trying to make it at a place. When, like when your claws are 669 00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:47,980 out trying to just make it, you can go back to like what the 670 00:33:47,980 --> 00:33:54,020 worst, basic, dumbest, most small patterns of this place can 671 00:33:54,020 --> 00:33:55,300 be. And then when you're your 672 00:33:55,300 --> 00:33:57,700 biggest self, you're like, oh, I see a human being. 673 00:33:57,820 --> 00:34:00,300 And we would have the biggest debates about all that stuff. 674 00:34:00,300 --> 00:34:02,300 And then he he knew how to get me. 675 00:34:02,830 --> 00:34:05,230 He would say stuff because he knew it would provoke me because 676 00:34:05,230 --> 00:34:08,310 I, you know, I was young and I was making my own points and he 677 00:34:08,310 --> 00:34:12,590 would, you know, poke at me. But I think The Sopranos, you 678 00:34:12,590 --> 00:34:18,080 know, by willing to show this kind of culture with warts and 679 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,000 all, people appreciated that. Yeah, because if you sanitized 680 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,960 it and cleaned it up, it would be like, well, you're just. 681 00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:25,760 You're kind of sweeping all that stuff under the rug, which never 682 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,000 works out. Yeah, there's a real love to 683 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:32,199 just talk for real. Not from a it's intent to, you 684 00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:35,400 know, the intent is so clear. It's it's so important. 685 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,960 And you can usually feel that off the screen. 686 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,280 I feel like when you can sense the intent, yeah, Yeah. 687 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,719 Is is a lot of Korean culture Christianity? 688 00:34:46,460 --> 00:34:48,460 Is is it popular religion in Korea? 689 00:34:48,659 --> 00:34:50,659 I think it became a popular modern religion. 690 00:34:50,659 --> 00:34:55,300 I think originally it was very Buddhist, a lot of Confucianism. 691 00:34:55,420 --> 00:35:02,180 But I think post Korean War there was a lot of there was 692 00:35:02,220 --> 00:35:05,340 like Christianity was dropped off and then there was also a 693 00:35:05,340 --> 00:35:08,460 little bit of hard capitalism dropped off. 694 00:35:08,460 --> 00:35:11,420 Those things can mix very well at times. 695 00:35:11,420 --> 00:35:13,210 Yeah. Yeah, I know. 696 00:35:13,250 --> 00:35:16,930 And there are a lot of Korean Americans who are part of 697 00:35:16,930 --> 00:35:18,970 Christian communities in in the US. 698 00:35:18,970 --> 00:35:21,450 Oh yeah, Oh yeah, though. And and those were like those 699 00:35:21,570 --> 00:35:26,250 central Nexus places where like it almost is like beyond the 700 00:35:26,250 --> 00:35:28,610 religion itself, you know, it's a community thing. 701 00:35:30,290 --> 00:35:34,010 And you know, people immigrate over here and they just kind of 702 00:35:34,010 --> 00:35:37,450 settle into that place to connect and be around people, 703 00:35:37,890 --> 00:35:29,370 sure. It's a community. 704 00:35:38,370 --> 00:35:43,030 Which church might be in? General for everybody, that 705 00:35:43,030 --> 00:35:46,270 could be a very good thing, especially if you know when it's 706 00:35:46,270 --> 00:35:48,550 people who are coming from another country and you know 707 00:35:48,550 --> 00:35:52,270 it's like a place you can find, you know, acceptance. 708 00:35:52,550 --> 00:35:54,750 Yeah, yeah. And it's weird because, like, 709 00:35:54,750 --> 00:35:59,630 now that I revisit Korean church these days, and no, no knock on 710 00:35:59,630 --> 00:36:02,790 it, I think it's very invaluable for people who feel like they 711 00:36:02,790 --> 00:36:05,710 want that community and and I certainly love touching it too, 712 00:36:05,710 --> 00:36:07,820 but. I found myself going back to 713 00:36:07,820 --> 00:36:11,780 Korean church lately and realizing that now that my 714 00:36:11,780 --> 00:36:14,980 parents aren't here, it's not exactly the same. 715 00:36:15,260 --> 00:36:20,980 It's not this like place to catch us, but it's now kind of a 716 00:36:21,140 --> 00:36:27,140 place that can also hide us or be a safe space for those that 717 00:36:27,180 --> 00:36:30,060 need. But maybe you can indulge in it. 718 00:36:30,290 --> 00:36:33,650 To a little bit. That scene when when when you go 719 00:36:33,650 --> 00:36:36,330 and you break down there is that kind of what's going on, feeling 720 00:36:36,330 --> 00:36:40,570 that like acceptance a bit. And how did you see that scene? 721 00:36:40,570 --> 00:36:41,930 Like what do you think was going on? 722 00:36:41,930 --> 00:36:43,490 It's a very powerful scene, by the way. 723 00:36:43,490 --> 00:36:46,290 It's really, it was very moving and very, you know, it's like, 724 00:36:46,290 --> 00:36:49,450 wow, because you don't really expect it from your character. 725 00:36:49,490 --> 00:36:52,570 No, up until that, you know, it's kind of the last thing. 726 00:36:53,250 --> 00:36:54,890 There's a lot of things you don't expect from Danny, 727 00:36:54,890 --> 00:36:58,450 especially, like takes over the takes over the praise band and 728 00:36:58,450 --> 00:37:00,570 he's singing yeah, Amazing Grace right now. 729 00:37:00,890 --> 00:37:04,050 But I I, I kind of likened it too. 730 00:37:04,050 --> 00:37:06,530 This is where I landed. I think, you know, everybody's 731 00:37:06,530 --> 00:37:08,730 going to come to their own conclusion about what that feels 732 00:37:08,730 --> 00:37:10,930 like. For me, the process of making 733 00:37:10,930 --> 00:37:12,850 that scene was really interesting because it kind of 734 00:37:12,850 --> 00:37:14,610 illuminated maybe what was happening. 735 00:37:15,780 --> 00:37:20,580 We shot the band, we shot the church members, and then when it 736 00:37:20,580 --> 00:37:24,860 came to me, you know, we all had this, like everybody was being 737 00:37:24,860 --> 00:37:30,130 very gracious to give me space. And I remember coming in before 738 00:37:30,130 --> 00:37:33,090 when the camera wasn't on me and I was like the classic acting 739 00:37:33,090 --> 00:37:34,930 thing where you're just like, oh, I'm in. 740 00:37:35,010 --> 00:37:37,850 Like, when the camera's not on me, easy, like let's go. 741 00:37:38,210 --> 00:37:40,370 I can do it. Like, I feel it already. 742 00:37:40,370 --> 00:37:43,730 Like I I'm already kind of weeping right now in my bones. 743 00:37:43,730 --> 00:37:45,490 And I'm like, OK, cool, I can't wait. 744 00:37:45,890 --> 00:37:47,610 And then they flipped the camera on me. 745 00:37:47,610 --> 00:37:49,330 And then everybody stops singing. 746 00:37:49,730 --> 00:37:53,130 And they just were like, cool, Let's ISO on Steven because he's 747 00:37:53,130 --> 00:37:56,420 there. Dried up immediately. 748 00:37:56,540 --> 00:37:58,820 I like, I tried. I couldn't get it. 749 00:37:59,220 --> 00:38:04,660 And I'm thankful that I have had enough experience to not push. 750 00:38:05,020 --> 00:38:06,820 And so I just kind of like, did the take. 751 00:38:06,820 --> 00:38:08,980 Didn't really go there, just try to be present. 752 00:38:09,460 --> 00:38:12,940 And when we cut, I was like, hey, I'm sorry I didn't get 753 00:38:12,940 --> 00:38:15,660 there, but I don't think there's something off. 754 00:38:15,660 --> 00:38:18,650 Can I just go take a minute? And I was just going to go take 755 00:38:18,650 --> 00:38:21,130 a minute and think about it. And then I came back and I was 756 00:38:21,130 --> 00:38:24,130 like, maybe maybe I need to hear the song differently or 757 00:38:24,130 --> 00:38:27,330 something like that. But then I realized I was like, 758 00:38:27,410 --> 00:38:31,090 oh, everybody stopped singing. And that was it. 759 00:38:31,370 --> 00:38:34,730 It was the IT was kind of the disappearing of the self. 760 00:38:35,290 --> 00:38:38,930 That was the key to that place and that and that emotion. 761 00:38:39,170 --> 00:38:42,330 It was. It was like Danny's holding his 762 00:38:42,330 --> 00:38:46,330 story, his pain. The way that the world crushes 763 00:38:46,330 --> 00:38:49,890 him, the way that his mind tells him the world is working at 764 00:38:49,890 --> 00:38:54,210 every other waking minute. But when he's singing in chorus 765 00:38:54,210 --> 00:38:57,130 with everybody, he can kind of like let that go. 766 00:38:57,130 --> 00:39:00,810 And then all of a sudden he feels this lightness a little 767 00:39:00,810 --> 00:39:03,250 bit. Or maybe this a lot of mixed 768 00:39:03,250 --> 00:39:08,930 feelings, just just this feeling of it lands at acceptance. 769 00:39:08,930 --> 00:39:12,420 But there's a. There's just, and I don't mean a 770 00:39:12,420 --> 00:39:15,140 shame, but like, you're putting yourself out there when you're 771 00:39:15,140 --> 00:39:17,780 singing, You know, like when you're singing. 772 00:39:17,860 --> 00:39:21,140 I remember growing up at church and, like, mouthing the words 773 00:39:21,140 --> 00:39:23,900 when I was younger because I was too afraid to sing because I was 774 00:39:23,900 --> 00:39:25,820 like, it's embarrassing. I don't want somebody to hear me 775 00:39:25,820 --> 00:39:27,620 sing. And then you just get more and 776 00:39:27,620 --> 00:39:29,780 more, just like, you let go. You let go. 777 00:39:29,780 --> 00:39:34,820 And I think that was it for Danny was a real letting go of 778 00:39:35,300 --> 00:39:39,130 his story. That he tells himself every day. 779 00:39:39,290 --> 00:39:42,370 That keeps him stuck in the place that he's stuck in. 780 00:39:42,570 --> 00:39:46,210 Yeah. It was very moving and very real 781 00:39:46,210 --> 00:39:49,730 and raw and uncomfortable, you know. 782 00:39:50,730 --> 00:39:52,850 Yeah. And as it should be, because 783 00:39:52,850 --> 00:39:54,850 it's like it takes you so by surprise. 784 00:39:55,010 --> 00:39:58,410 Thank you. It was really, it's a really and 785 00:39:58,410 --> 00:40:00,690 I. So when you when you shot it, 786 00:40:00,690 --> 00:40:02,410 that next take, did you have them sing? 787 00:40:02,900 --> 00:40:04,780 Yeah, I was like, I actually turned to everybody. 788 00:40:04,780 --> 00:40:07,180 And I was like, hey, I actually think I need you all to sing 789 00:40:07,180 --> 00:40:08,940 with me. Can you please sing with me? 790 00:40:08,940 --> 00:40:12,100 And they all sang with me. And then I was sobbing. 791 00:40:12,140 --> 00:40:14,460 And that was very moving to you immediately. 792 00:40:14,460 --> 00:40:16,940 Yeah. It was this, yeah. 793 00:40:16,980 --> 00:40:18,660 It was the feeling of not being alone. 794 00:40:19,350 --> 00:40:22,590 Yeah. And all of them being vulnerable 795 00:40:22,670 --> 00:40:25,310 singing because speak singing, there's a vulnerability to that, 796 00:40:25,310 --> 00:40:26,190 right? Absolutely. 797 00:40:26,870 --> 00:40:30,070 And all of them being vulnerable and and that communal experience 798 00:40:30,070 --> 00:40:31,910 must have been very powerful. Yeah. 799 00:40:32,070 --> 00:40:35,670 And and I think in that way that's where I feel a little bit 800 00:40:35,670 --> 00:40:40,070 bonded with White Lotus as well because that show is about 801 00:40:40,110 --> 00:40:44,150 vulnerability like you can't you can't roll up to that show as an 802 00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:46,750 actor. I think without being aware of 803 00:40:46,750 --> 00:40:51,750 some aspects of yourself or why you why you might be cast, not 804 00:40:51,750 --> 00:40:55,910 because that person is you, but like perhaps you, it's the task 805 00:40:55,910 --> 00:40:58,910 is it's asking you to access parts of yourself a little bit 806 00:40:58,910 --> 00:41:01,390 to really connect with the audience and. 807 00:41:02,150 --> 00:41:06,630 Yeah, yeah, when I first. Like I said, I when they said 808 00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:09,030 they were interested in having me, I hadn't seen it. 809 00:41:09,110 --> 00:41:11,550 They only sent a couple of scenes, you know, for the for 810 00:41:11,550 --> 00:41:15,150 the tape self tape. So I went and started watching 811 00:41:15,150 --> 00:41:17,830 it and at first I'm like, is this going to be some? 812 00:41:17,990 --> 00:41:20,830 Because, you know, cynicism is very popular today, right? 813 00:41:20,910 --> 00:41:21,550 Yep. Yep. 814 00:41:21,550 --> 00:41:24,510 Is this going to be some cynical statement about how rich people 815 00:41:24,510 --> 00:41:29,990 suck and white people suck and the world suck And I'm like, oh 816 00:41:29,990 --> 00:41:32,800 wow. As I watched and watched them 817 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,760 like this guy, Mike White was able to kind of like find 818 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:40,680 humanity as you brought up before in these people who are 819 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,680 some of whom are, you know, saying or doing very despicable 820 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,840 things, living, you know, questionable lives. 821 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,280 Yet he's able to find an element of of compassion for them. 822 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,160 And that I thought was very skillful, yes. 823 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,120 And if you can do that and then suck you into a story. 824 00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,160 A really interesting story. Wow. 825 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,680 And I couldn't stop watching it. And then as soon as I would, I'd 826 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:06,520 seen the show as I put myself on tape before I saw the show, I 827 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,360 was shooting something else and I was really busy. 828 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,920 And I just put myself on tape and my manager said, you need to 829 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:12,080 watch the show. I said, why? 830 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,240 They're like, you're not getting the tone. 831 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,920 And then when I went and watched it and then I retaped the scenes 832 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:20,920 after seeing it because I really understood it. 833 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:24,240 But, you know, I guess that's what a good writer does. 834 00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:26,700 They're able to, kind of. You know, well there's good 835 00:42:26,700 --> 00:42:30,380 writing and Mike White and you know, Sunny are incredible in my 836 00:42:30,380 --> 00:42:32,700 opinion. But also, you know, you got to 837 00:42:32,700 --> 00:42:34,660 find the right actor too. I don't know if you can just 838 00:42:34,700 --> 00:42:37,180 roll up to that, I think. No, you know, no, you're right. 839 00:42:37,660 --> 00:42:40,940 Yeah. Watching you play your character 840 00:42:41,460 --> 00:42:44,660 that can be so heavily judged. That's not easy. 841 00:42:45,260 --> 00:42:48,020 It's a that's a that's always the weirdest part about this 842 00:42:48,660 --> 00:42:51,950 thing is how. Yeah, I don't know. 843 00:42:51,950 --> 00:42:56,310 Every every role takes. You just cut in a little deeper 844 00:42:56,310 --> 00:42:59,030 and then this world gets a little stranger, I feel like. 845 00:42:59,070 --> 00:43:02,110 Yeah. And you have to see it from the 846 00:43:02,110 --> 00:43:04,150 inside. You can't, you can't judge the 847 00:43:04,150 --> 00:43:07,910 character on your own kind of moral standard because then 848 00:43:07,910 --> 00:43:09,030 you're done, right? You're done. 849 00:43:09,230 --> 00:43:11,150 Yeah. Yeah, you know then white load 850 00:43:11,150 --> 00:43:13,230 is completely fails. Then white load. 851 00:43:13,670 --> 00:43:16,390 Yeah, you know, that's that's the cool part was I was watching 852 00:43:16,390 --> 00:43:22,830 every actor just come from a real place and that's awesome. 853 00:43:22,990 --> 00:43:27,070 And I'm glad shows like that exists right now in such a hyper 854 00:43:27,070 --> 00:43:30,790 cynical time where there's like new boxes now. 855 00:43:31,390 --> 00:43:33,710 Yeah, that's exciting. Yeah. 856 00:43:34,030 --> 00:43:36,030 Yeah, very exciting. New boxes? 857 00:43:36,030 --> 00:43:37,870 You mean like uncharted territory? 858 00:43:37,870 --> 00:43:40,790 You mean new boxes? Like, I actually mean like 859 00:43:41,030 --> 00:43:45,670 there's now the old boxes that we all tried to war against, 860 00:43:45,670 --> 00:43:49,990 which was rightfully so. You mean like new boxes of 861 00:43:50,590 --> 00:43:53,950 definition and boundary? Yeah, we've created new boxes, 862 00:43:53,950 --> 00:43:58,550 which got quickly very dark. And yeah, and it's cool, I 863 00:43:58,550 --> 00:44:01,790 think, to have shows. And there's like a lot of shows 864 00:44:01,790 --> 00:44:04,190 that are like this, which is really promising for me of like, 865 00:44:04,950 --> 00:44:09,150 you know, not abandoning each other and kind of understanding 866 00:44:09,150 --> 00:44:13,100 the humanity of people not to justify their actions, but just 867 00:44:13,100 --> 00:44:15,060 to kind of like, look at it for a second. 868 00:44:15,580 --> 00:44:17,820 Yeah, to look at it exactly. To look at it. 869 00:44:18,220 --> 00:44:23,100 Yeah, and relate or not relate, but often relate, often relate, 870 00:44:23,740 --> 00:44:26,420 often relate. You know, Yes, yes, often you 871 00:44:26,420 --> 00:44:30,780 can relate, you know, feeling, you know, like Danny's, you 872 00:44:30,780 --> 00:44:33,260 know, that feeling of like wanting to take. 873 00:44:33,740 --> 00:44:36,420 To have that power, you know, not not to feel powerless. 874 00:44:36,420 --> 00:44:39,180 You know, I have to, you know, this is not, you know what I 875 00:44:39,180 --> 00:44:41,060 mean? And just like, I mean, I lived 876 00:44:41,060 --> 00:44:44,220 in California for like 7 years and spent a lot of time in the 877 00:44:44,220 --> 00:44:47,380 car. And it's there's a strange, 878 00:44:47,900 --> 00:44:49,140 there's a whole different thing living. 879 00:44:49,140 --> 00:44:51,980 I don't have a car anymore. So I try to take the subway and 880 00:44:51,980 --> 00:44:55,340 walk a lot. Take Ubers, but the subway 881 00:44:55,500 --> 00:44:58,480 probably more than anything. That's a very different thing, 882 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:00,560 totally. When you're in your car, there's 883 00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:05,560 a whole other you can very see how very easily those road rage 884 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,360 can happen. Here is like bubbles on bubbles 885 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:12,440 on bubbles, whereas New York feels like there's bigger 886 00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,560 bubbles and then there's a whole New York bubble. 887 00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,800 But like here, you're like, you're trapped in your own 888 00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,280 reality really hard unless you're actively trying to 889 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,640 connect with other people. I think in LA it gets gnarly 890 00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,880 here, but yeah, it's it's nice. Yeah. 891 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,440 Every place has its positives and negatives. 892 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:31,800 Totally. You know what I've found? 893 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,520 Yes. Well, Steven, it was a pleasure. 894 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:35,560 Such a medium. Talk to you. 895 00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:36,080 Yeah. True. 896 00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:39,560 Honor this one by really quick. We could have, we could have 897 00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,120 gone on for another couple of hours, I'm sure. 898 00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,600 I hope I get to catch another conversation with you in the 899 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:45,080 future. Yeah, we'll do it. 900 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,480 We'll do it in person next time. Yeah, that'd be awesome. 901 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,600 Over either Italian food or Korean food, or both. 902 00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:52,220 Let's do both. Both. 903 00:45:52,220 --> 00:45:54,980 Maybe some hybrid of the yeah yeah sure exists. 904 00:45:55,380 --> 00:45:57,220 Now I'm going to find one. I'm going to find all right. 905 00:45:57,700 --> 00:46:01,460 Sounds good. Thanks for listening. 906 00:46:02,140 --> 00:46:06,940 The 824 podcast is produced by us. 824 Special thanks to our 907 00:46:06,940 --> 00:46:10,020 editor Tom Wyatt and Robot Repair, who composed our theme.