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Hi, this is Mark Raven. 
Welcome to episode 287 of Liam 

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blog audio. 
This is a post from September 

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3rd, 2019, titled General, Jim 
Mattis on leadership, mistakes. 

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And defining problems. 
So retired General. 

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Jim Mattis has been making the 
rounds to talk about his new 

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book that's out today and that 
book is titled callsign. 

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Chaos learning to lead and you 
can find a link to the book. 

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You can find links. 
Stu the Articles. 

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I'm going to mention in this 
episode by going to lean blog 

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dot org, slash audio 287. 
I'm so again, the book is 

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callsign chaos with the subtitle
learning to lead, now learning 

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to lead. 
Sounds like, it could be the 

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title of a book about lean 
management. 

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We're all learning how to lead 
people, how to lead Improvement 

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to lead organizations. 
You might say, we're practicing 

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leadership if you will myself 
included. 

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Now, a few things jumped out at 
me from an article and an NPR 

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interview. 
Mattis, it made me think about 

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lean and the challenges we face 
in various workplaces as 

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Madness. 
Wrote a piece, it was an excerpt

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from the book. 
This was published in the Wall 

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Street Journal. 
He said, quote, the Marines are 

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bluntly. 
Critical of falling short 

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satisfied, only with 100% 
effort, and commitment yet over 

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the course of my career. 
Every time I made a mistake and 

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I made many the Marines promoted
me, they're recognized that 

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these mistakes were part of my 
tuition and unnecessary bridge 

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to learning how to do things. 
Things right year in and year 

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out, the Marines had trained me 
in skills. 

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They knew I needed while 
educating me to deal with the 

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unexpected. 
So there's a lot to unpack in 

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that quote, you know, I think a 
lean culture and the leaders 

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there in our bluntly critical of
falling short as Mattis wrote, 

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you know, facts are facts. 
Problems are to be embraced, 

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will get nowhere by ignoring or 
refusing to face up to problems.

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Now, that said, lean thinkers 
look at systems and processes 

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having 100% effort and 
Commitment, as Mattis wrote 

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might be helpful but 
insufficient or not fully 

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sufficient for success. 
But Madness writes about not 

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being punished for mistakes, 
which I think is really 

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powerful. 
We can try to error-proof 

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processes but maybe we can't 
mistake proof bad decisions. 

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When people are doing the best 
they can giving their situation 

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training and Leadership support.
Now, Madison wasn't left to 

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flounder as he wrote, he was 
given training and education but

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dealing with the unexpected. 
Acted means that mistakes will 

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occur. 
Now, I think a lean culture 

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promotes, the idea of making 
small mistakes, it's better to 

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fail early when the stakes are 
low in the design of a new 

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process or a physical space. 
Lean Design, Concepts like 

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cardboard, prototypes of 
workspaces mean that we can 

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learn from mistakes when making 
changes at a point when making 

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changes is relatively easy and 
inexpensive. 

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We want to make sure we're truly
learning from mistakes instead 

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of making the same mistakes over
and over. 

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Now Healthcare, I've noticed. 
Sadly has a tendency to punish 

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people who make mistakes. 
Now, Matt has also shared 

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example, about a leader who is 
alienating people. 

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He wrote I served with a 
brilliant Admiral from a 

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European nation. 
He looked and acted every inch. 

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The forceful leader is too 
forceful. 

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He yelled dressing officers down
in front of others and publicly 

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mocked reports that he 
considered shallow, instead of 

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clarifying what he wanted. 
He was harsh and inconsiderate 

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and the subordinates were 
fearful. 

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Now lean leaders. 
Don't yell mock or dress down if

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a leader disagrees or needs to 
address a problem they can do. 

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So respectfully lean actually 
works against the old culture of

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fear that dr. 
Deming and others warned us 

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against. 
Now unfortunately reminded of 

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the old leadership style that 
was still there. 

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When I worked at General Motors 
in 1995, as I blogged about in a

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post titled beat down on them. 
So instead of beating down on 

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people, we need to collaborate 
in a way that lifts them up. 

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Up General Mattis, writes a 
called in the Admiral and 

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carefully explained why I 
disapproved of his leadership 

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your staff resents. 
You, I say you're disappointed 

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in their input, okay? 
But your criticism makes that 

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input worse. 
Not better. 

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You're going the wrong way. 
You cannot allow your passion 

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for excellence to destroy, your 
compassion for them as human 

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beings. 
This is a point. 

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I'd always driven home to my 
subordinates. 

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Change your leadership style. 
I continued coach, and encourage

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don't berate least of all in 
public, So Madness was correct 

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but telling somebody to change 
even if you're their leader, 

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doesn't mean they will 
necessarily choose to change. 

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I think that's a really 
important lesson from the 

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motivational interviewing 
approach and I'll be presenting 

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a webinar in October for The 
Institute of industrial and 

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systems Engineers on this topic.
And I'm also hosting through 

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Connexus, another webinar with 
Mark Valenti from who's going to

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be doing the Presenting if you 
want to register for that 

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webinar. 
Next week you can again go to 

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lean blog dot, org slash audio 
287 and look for the link or you

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can go to www.hsn.com. 
So what happened after maddest 

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old this European Admiral that 
he should change Mattis wrote 

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but he soon reverted to 
demeaning his subordinates. 

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I shouldn't have been surprised.
When for decades, you have been 

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rewarded and promoted. 
It's difficult to break the 

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habits. 
You've acquired Alice of how 

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they may have worked in another 
setting. 

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Finally, I told him to go home, 
so I would add. 

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Yeah, old habits are hard to 
change, that's for sure. 

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I see this in healthcare 
organizations again far too 

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often. 
As see a bullying or demeaning 

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style of leadership. 
That's only been reinforced over

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decades. 
Here are some other interesting 

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comments from Mattis as he was 
interviewed by NPR. 

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It says in the article, man is 
says that when he was a senior 

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military commander quote, I 
didn't expect to be obeyed but I

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did, but I expected to be heard.
So that in a way, makes me think

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of a quote, from Gary Canvas, OR
former Toyota executive who was 

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taught to quote lead. 
As if you have no Authority, 

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that means engaging in 
collaborating. 

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A way that's more constructive 
than barking orders. 

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Now, I can't find the text of 
the audio that I heard listening

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to the MPR one app. 
We're mattes quoted Albert. 

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Einstein and talking about the 
importance of defining problems,

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properly and getting alignment 
on our understanding of the 

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problem before. 
Going into Solutions which again

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reminds me of lean thinking and 
lean problem-solving, he quoted,

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Einstein whose alleged who 
supposedly said. 

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If I only had one hour to save 
the world, I would spend 55 

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minutes to finding the problem 
and only five minutes, finding 

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the solution. 
But it's said that Einstein 

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didn't really say that. 
Abraham Lincoln allegedly said 

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something similar. 
Quote, if I only had an hour to 

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chop down a tree, I would spend 
the first 45 minutes sharpening,

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my axe. 
I don't know if that's a true 

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quote but a quote that I think 
is legit and accurate is from 

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Charles Kettering the famed 
General Motors engineer. 

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Who said a problem, well stated 
as half solved. 

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So, recently, I've been coaching
some improvement efforts in 

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Health Systems Ambulatory 
Surgery Center, their aim and 

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mandate was to improve the 
Patient experience and do so, in

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a way that would hopefully be 
reflected in patient survey 

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scores, one role that I played 
and I think it was an important 

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one was to be mindful of when 
individuals or teams or jumping 

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in the solution mode. 
Prematurely I find myself 

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saying, well you know what 
problem are we trying to solve? 

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So collectively, we spent more 
time on defining, the problem, 

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in understanding the current 
state, understanding the real 

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reality spending more time on 
that than the organization might

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have otherwise. 
But that investment Paid off, in

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terms of better, countermeasures
that had more support from the 

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staff and leaders, who had been 
engaged in the discussion along 

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the way. 
So to wrap up I don't know if I 

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would label General Mattis a 
quote-unquote lean later. 

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I mean, what does that matter 
anyway? 

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He seems like a great leader in 
a principled leader and I would 

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argue, we need more of that in 
different workplaces. so again, 

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if you would like to find the 
blog post for this episode, you 

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can go to lean blog dot org, 
slash audio 287