Hi everyone. Welcome back to the Daily Gospel
Exegesis Podcast made by Logical Bible Study.
And what we do here in this podcast is we take a look at the
literal sense of the text from today's gospel reading at Mass.
So every day when you go to Mass, there's usually 3
readings, sometimes 2. The last reading is the gospel
reading, and that's from Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.
And we take a look at that reading and we're looking at the
literal sense of the text, as in what was the author trying to
convey to his original audience. And by doing that, we can really
get at the meaning of the text. What?
And in fact, that's the best way to find out what it's trying to
say to us today. So today we're looking at a
really, really interesting passage for a number of reasons.
One of the most important, I think, in terms of understanding
Jesus thinking and the Jewish thinking at the time about the
Pharisees, et cetera. So we're looking at Matthew
chapter 23, verses 1 to 12, addressing the people in his
disciples. Jesus said the scribes in the
Pharisees occupy the chair of Moses.
You must therefore do what they tell you and listen to what they
say. But do not be guided by what
they do. Since they do not practice what
they preach, they tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men's
shoulders. But will they lift a finger to
move them? Not they.
Everything they do is done to attract attention, like wearing
broad philacteries and longer Tessels, like wanting to take
the place of honor at banquets and the front seats in the
synagogues, being greeted obsequiously in the market
squares, and having people call them Rabbi.
You, however, must not allow yourselves to be called Rabbi,
since you have only one master and you are all brothers.
You must call no one on earth your Father.
Since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven, you must
not allow yourselves to be called teachers, for you have
only one teacher, The Christ. The greatest among you must be
your servant. Anyone who exalts himself will
be humbled, and everybody who humbles himself will be exalted.
So in this passage, there's two really interesting things that
need to be talked about, and those would be the seat of
Moses. In the first half, Jesus
discusses what it means to have the seat of Moses, so we'll talk
a bit about that. And then in the second-half, of
course, there's that common objection against Catholic
teaching, which is that Jesus says call no man father, but of
course Catholics call their priests father.
So this is a really important passage.
Well, I would say this is one of those passages where if we don't
do an analysis of the literal sense of the text and we just
jump straight to the spiritual sense of the text and we're
going to miss a lot of really important information.
So let's jump into it, The literal sense of the text.
Matthew chapter 23. So the setting of this appears
to be in the temple. So Jesus is telling us a few
parables and he has some confrontations with the
Pharisees in the temple here. And this is basically the final
conflict between Jesus and the Pharisees, and it's the most
hated one. Jesus doesn't pull any punches
here. He really digs into the
Pharisees and the way they live their life, and he pinpoints
exactly what his problem with them is.
Earlier in his ministry, he's spoken not very highly of the
Pharisees, but it hasn't been entirely clear what the
fundamental problem is. Here Jesus really tells us
exactly what his problem with the Pharisees is.
First one addressing the people and his disciples.
So notice that we have crowds listening and the disciples
listening. He's addressing both of them,
Verse 2, the scribes and the Pharisees.
So these are the common religious teachers at the time
in Israel. Essentially, they're the Jewish
religious authorities. They had the power to interpret
the law, and I would say they actually did their best to
interpret God's law. They're not trying to be
deceptive. They're actually doing their
best to teach the people God's law because most people couldn't
read or write. So the Pharisees have the role
of teaching people what the Old Testament says, even if they're
sometimes mistaken, which they certainly are, they're doing
their best to teach people God's law.
The scribes is the second group mentioned here.
The scribes were kind of like a subgroup within the Pharisees,
and they were experts in the actual text, the writing, the
words of the Old Testament. So Jesus says the scribes and
the Pharisees occupy the chair of Moses, the chair of Moses.
So we need to understand this phrase if we're going to
understand Jesus conflict with the Pharisees during Moses's
life. So let's go back to the Old
Testament. So during Moses's life, it
appears as you know, there's these times when people come to
Moses while they're camping in the wilderness.
People would come to Moses if they had a problem, and Moses
would bring a solution or a judgment.
And it appears that during his life there was an actual chair
that he would sit on when he's making judgments and when people
would come to him. Kind of like a throne, but not
really. It's just his chair that he made
judgments from. And whenever he sat in that
chair, it was he was teaching authoritatively.
So it was believed by the Jews at the time that because of
Moses's office as a divinely chosen by God, Moses clearly was
spoken to by God and he clearly had God's approval.
Then the Jews believe that any teaching that was proposed by
Moses to be believed by the Jews was binding, not necessarily
infallible. We don't want to say Moses was
infallible, but he did have the right to create binding
decisions that all Jews were bound to.
And so the Jews believe that this authority of the chair of
Moses or the seat of Moses was then passed on to Joshua after
Moses died. So then Joshua had the authority
of Moses. Then later as Jewish history
progressed, it was passed on to some of the other Jewish
leaders. Maybe Ezra and Nehemiah might
have held that office, and possibly some of the other
prophets as well. We don't have a clear line of
who exactly it was passed down to, but there was this general
idea that the Jews had that the chair of Moses, Moses is
teaching authority to bind, to make binding judgments, was
passed on throughout time, and whoever had the seat of Moses
had the power to interpret the Law of Moses for the Jewish
people. So basically, if you sat in the
seat of Moses, then you could explain to the people what the
Torah meant and they could add in certain disciplines or
regulations about how the law was to be enacted and those were
binding on the people. So by the time of the 1st
century, so the time of Jesus, the authority of Moses and the
seat of Moses had passed to the Pharisees.
The Pharisees were now the official authoritative teachers,
and particularly in the weekly liturgy, it appears that they
literally sat on a special seat that was in a sense considered
to be the seat of Moses. And then they would give their
sermon, during which time they could make official teachings
for their local congregations. And we know that they had this,
the seat of Moses, because Jesus tells us in this passage he says
the scribes and Pharisees occupy the chair of Moses.
This isn't often talked about much, but it needs to be.
We often, sort of, you know, we'll often hear that there was
4 competing groups in Jesus time.
You have the Essanes, the Pharisees, the Sedgeses, and the
Zealots. Probably lots of you have heard
of those four groups, and often it's portrayed as though they
all had equal authority with each other.
It appears that really if we look at the Gospels, the
Pharisees were the only ones that had legitimate teaching
authority that was approved by God.
The other groups were kind of just doing their own thing.
So that means, if it's true that the Pharisees had the seed of
Moses's authority, anything the Pharisees officially taught in
Jesus time was authoritative and binding.
Anything the Pharisees taught was to be obeyed, and that's
what Jesus expected. So that's radically different
from what we're often told. We're often told that the
Pharisees were just wrong about everything.
Jesus didn't approve of them. He thought that they shouldn't
exist, and things like that. No, that's not the case.
Jesus is saying you must obey them because they sit on the
seat of Moses. We can look at it this way.
God approved of their teaching office, and in fact he'd given
them their teaching office. But he didn't approve of every
single teaching they proposed. Not every single thing the
Pharisees said was from God. It's just that God has given
that. God knows that the Jewish people
needs leaders, even if the leaders are fallible.
He said He set things up in such a way so that there's always
some sort of Jewish spiritual group of leaders who have the
power to make binding decisions and the people must obey it.
That's how God has set it up. So the Pharisees teachings were
authoritative and binding, but not necessarily infallible.
If we can keep that in mind, that will help us understand the
conflict Jesus has with them. Verse 3.
Jesus says you must therefore do what they tell you and listen to
what they say. So since the Pharisees do have
genuine teaching authority as Jews, the people in Jesus time
were bound to do whatever they say.
That's what God expects, That's what Jesus expects.
That's how God has set things up.
If they make a teaching or discipline, you must obey it,
says Jesus. But he adds A caveat here.
Do not be guided by what they do since they do not practice what
they preach. So this is really interesting.
Jesus tells his disciples that they should follow all teachings
of the Pharisees, anything the Pharisees teach as part of their
teaching authority. He expects his disciples to
follow that because it's binding.
But he says don't imitate their way of life, don't do what they
do, don't live the way they do, don't have their attitude
because they're not particularly holy people.
This is the main criticism Jesus has of them as, as we'll see,
it's not that they are teaching things.
That's not his problem with them, it's the way they're
living their life. And you could extend that to say
the way they're treating people. We soon discovered that as we
read on the passage, the Pharisees do everything to
attract attention. That's the problem.
That's what Jesus says, don't imitate them.
So Jesus here is probably quite frustrated.
He wants the Pharisees to be holy people.
He wishes that they were, because if they were, the whole
situation would be much better. There'd be holy leaders giving
wholly authoritative teachings. But that's not the case here.
Verse 4, Jesus goes on. The Pharisees tie up heavy
burdens and lay them on men's shoulders.
So Jesus is telling us that the Pharisees, when they exercise
their teaching authority, are requiring the Jews to follow all
sorts of extra rules and disciplines.
And of course we can think of the dietary laws at the time,
and also the Sabbath laws. You know, you couldn't pluck
grain on the Sabbath. That added in all these extra
tidbits in the way that they interpreted the law.
Now they were binding, So Jesus is not disputing that they're
binding. But what he's saying is they're
tying up heavy burdens and laying them on men's shoulders.
So the Jews do have to follow those teachings.
But will they lift a finger to move them?
No, not they. So the Pharisees adding in all
these extra little rules and Jesus is frustrated with that
because the Pharisees are not considering the impact that that
will have on the Jewish people. In fact, it could make coming to
God harder for them. So Jesus concern here is that
the Pharisees are exercising their authority in such a way
that it might actually be harder for the Jews to come to God
because there's so many little requirements.
So in fact the Pharisees would not actually act like the holy
people that that the Jews required.
So imagine imagine what it would be like if the Pharisees added
in all these laws which they were doing, but on top of that
they acted like holy people, and there were people that the Jews
could imitate. If that was the case, the whole
situation would be much easier because the Jews could follow
all the laws. But then they would have the
Pharisees to look up to and to imitate, and they would be able
to live a holy life. And in that way the rules would
would become less burdensome because they had role models to
look up to. But in fact, the situation is
not that. The situation is the Pharisees,
using their teaching authority, are binding the Jews to follow
all these little authoritative laws and the Pharisees as their
spiritual leaders and not doing anything to help them live out
those laws. They're just adding more and
more things. So I hope that makes sense that
if you're understanding the distinction between the
Pharisees having legitimate teaching authority, but then the
way that they're living their life kind of making it harder
for the Jews to access God. This contrast with Jesus yoke.
Remember what Jesus says about his burden?
He says my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
So that's in Chapter 11 of Matthew, verse 29.
In contrast, the yoke of the Pharisees or the teaching, the
teaching body of the Pharisees was quite hard for the people to
bear. So Jesus finishes talking about
the Pharisees teaching there, and now he's going to talk about
the Pharisees way of living. Verse five.
He says everything they do is done to attract attention.
So the Pharisees like to be seen as important.
They're motivated by pride. Basically.
They'd like to wear broad phalactories.
So Phalactories are small leather boxes.
You might have seen pictures of the Pharisees from this time
period. They're small boxes and they
contain Scripture passages. So this is based on Deuteronomy
chapter 6, verse 8, where God says, put the law at the front
of your mind and on your hands. And it's kind of like a metaphor
for, like, make sure you always follow the law.
But the Pharisees took that literally to mean we literally
need to put the Scripture passages on our heads and on our
hands. So during the liturgy, they
would wear these little boxes and they would strap them to
their forehead and their left arm.
During the liturgy, it probably represents knowledge and loyalty
to the Torah. It appears that the Pharisees or
the Pharisees in this part of the world were quite, quite
prominent Philactories, so that everyone saw their Philactories
and they appeared to be extra knowledgeable and extra holy.
So is there anything wrong with wearing Philactories?
No, there's not. Jesus is not criticizing that.
That was sort of part of the Jewish way of understanding
obedience to God. But his problem with the
Pharisees is that the reason the Pharisees are wearing the
Philactories is to attract attention.
And then he gives another example.
They love to wear longer tassels.
So tassels were kind of like the end bits of the cloak, and they
were considered to be the religious part of Jewish
clothing. And they particularly
represented for the Jews, the tassels represented the Jewish
responsibility to keep the commandments.
And that's specified in Numbers, chapter 15, verse 38 to 39,
where it says the Jews need to wear certain kinds of tassels as
part of their obedience. So the Pharisees had their
clothes specially designed to have really long tassel so that
everyone could see their tassels.
And everyone would say, well, aren't they so religious?
Aren't they so holy verse six, they love to take the place of
honor at banquets and the front seats in the synagogues so that
everyone can see them, basically, and know how
important they are. So the Pharisees on the whole
are motivated by pride. They love to be greeted
obsecuously in the marketplaces. What a strange word.
Obsecuously that our littergy translation has.
I've never heard that word before until I saw it in today's
littergy translation. An easier translation of that
word obsecuously is They love to have many salutations in the
marketplace, so they expected everyone to give them a special
greeting because of their status.
They also love to have people call them Rabbi.
Now this is a good connector to the next part of the passage.
The Pharisees really liked people calling them the term
Rabbi. So Rabbi was a word in the 1st
century society which had come to mean my teacher.
If you said Rabbi, you were saying that I consider you to be
my teacher, or more literally my great one.
So you wouldn't just call anyone Rabbi.
It was anyone that you respected significantly, my great one.
So a Jew would use it for anyone they consider to be their
authoritative teacher. In the gospel, some people
address Jesus this way. They call Jesus Rabbi.
Sometimes it's to flatter him, like the Pharisees sometimes try
to call Jesus Rabbi. Sometimes it appears people
genuinely mean it. They genuinely see Jesus as a
rabbi, which he is. The difference is that the
Pharisees required people to call them Rabbi.
They said as part of showing us respect, you must call us Rabbi.
So really, again, it's out of pride.
So people, they weren't giving people the option of calling
them rabbi. You're they're saying you must
call us rabbi. They wanted the satisfaction of
everyone considering them to be their teachers.
So again, the Ferris is being selfish.
So we now enter into the part of the passage which can be one of
the hardest to understand and reconcile with both later
Christian teaching and later Catholic teaching.
So we really need to dive into it.
Verse 8 Jesus says you, however, so now he's talking to his
disciples particularly. You, however, must not allow
yourselves to be called Rabbi. So the Pharisees love to be
called Rabbi. But Jesus says, you guys, my
disciples must not let yourselves be called Rabbi.
So Jesus knows it. In the coming years after he's
gone, the disciples would become significant teachers of the
Christian faith and people are naturally going to want to call
them Rabbi. What's the reason Jesus gives
for why you shouldn't let yourself be called Rabbi?
He says it's because you have one teacher and that's God.
God is the only true rabbi. Now sometimes other translations
will have this as master, you have only one master or teacher.
Both of them are kind of like a translation of Rabbi.
So the reason the disciples shouldn't get themselves to be
called rabbi is because God is the only true rabbi.
You are all brothers. So Jesus is saying in a sense,
Jesus is saying this, that in the Kingdom of God, in the new
covenant, the playing field needs to be leveled in a sense
within the Christian community because he's seen how it's so
easy for people in positions of authority in in terms of God's
leaders, in positions of authority, it's so easy for them
to be corrupted. And he wants his disciples to
not fall into that corruption and pride.
He wants him to have a frame of mind which sees God is the
teacher, and then all Christians on an equal level below that.
He says that has to be the starting point.
We don't seek authority for for our own sake, he says.
Now there's a bit more to it though, because as we go on we
see that Jesus is using hyperbole.
He's exaggerating here. He does not literally mean that
it's never OK to call someone rabbi.
That's not what the passage means.
This is why it's really important that we do.
That we dive into the When we're stunning the Bible, we must look
at the cultural context, the way that words were used, the way
that Jesus used phrases. Because if we don't do that, if
we just pluck a verse out of context, we will end up saying
you should never call anyone rabbi or you should never call
anyone father. And we really put ourselves in
some difficult situations there, because that would imply that
we're not allowed to call our own earthly fathers father.
So there must be an element of hyperbole here.
So Jesus, again, he does not literally mean it's never OK to
call someone Rabbi. What he's saying is that he's
trying to contrast the way the Pharisees have set up their
leadership system with how he wants his disciples to set up
their leadership system. In fact, Jesus allowed himself
to be called Rabbi sometimes, so he's not forbidding Rabbi
altogether. He's using exaggeration.
Here he goes. On verse nine, call no one on
earth your father. So this is the second example.
Don't let yourself be called Rabbi.
And now he says don't call anyone else father.
So Jesus has to be exaggerating here.
Think about it. Don't call anyone on earth
father. But everyone calls people on
earth their father. Our dads.
We're going to call them father. So clearly Jesus doesn't expect
his disciples not to call their dad's father.
That doesn't make sense. He has to be exaggerating, and
we'll talk about this a bit more as we go.
He says call no one on earth your father, since you have only
one father and he's in heaven. So apparently the Pharisees
enjoyed being called Father as well, and it had become a real
problem in Jesus time. So Jesus reminds his disciples
that really they only have one father.
He's the source of all paternity.
Why doesn't this verse contradict the Catholic teaching
on the fatherhood of priests? Here's why.
If this passage, if we just had this passage in the New
Testament which said call no one on earth father, even if we
grant that OK, Jesus doesn't mean biological fathers, you can
call them Father. Maybe Jesus means spiritual
fathers Don't call anyone your spiritual father.
Now if we just had this verse to go by, then that might be true
and Catholics might be in a bit of trouble here because the
Catholic teaching that we can call Priest Father would seem to
contradict this verse. But luckily we have other verses
in the New Testament. Later in the New Testament we
see the apostles being called fathers and accepting the title
Father. So Paul calls himself a father
in five Lehman chapter 10. Sorry, five Lehman verse 10.
And John the Apostle John often refers to his disciples as my
little children. So he sees himself as a
spiritual father to these people.
Probably the most famous verse which can be used to support
Catholic teaching here is 1 Corinthians chapter 4, verse 14
to 15, where Paul says, I admonish you, my beloved
children. Though you have countless guides
in Christ, you do not have many fathers.
I became your I became as your father in Christ Jesus through
the gospel. So here it's pretty clear that
Paul is considered to be a father to this the Corinthian
people, and he wants to be seen as a father.
So if we have people like Paul and John telling people to
consider them to be their spiritual fathers, and they knew
Jesus quite well, particularly the Apostle John, and they knew
what Jesus said here, well then they must have understood that
what Jesus said here in Matthew 23 does not forbid calling
people spiritual father in all circumstances.
That's how they understood it and that's how the Catholic
Church understands it today. So if later parts of the New
Testament allow the term Father to be used for spiritual
fathers, then that means the New Testament writers understood
that Jesus was using hyperbole here and he's not forbidding the
term spiritual father to be used.
So I think that's really cool when we compare this with the
way later usage was used. So if that's the case, what is
Jesus saying Here again, Jesus is exaggerating to make a point,
which is that we can't have the same frame of mind and the same
starting point as the Pharisees when we're constructing the
leadership of the Kingdom of God This 10 Jesus uses one more
title, He says, Nor must you, nor must you allow yourselves to
be called teachers or masters. So apparently that's another
term the Pharisees like to be called.
So you have only one teacher, the Christ.
Now this is interesting because for the first two Jesus says if
you have only one Father who is in heaven.
But this time he says do not let yourselves be called teachers,
for you have only one teacher, the Christ.
So this time it's not God, it's the Messiah, the Christ.
Jesus doesn't say me, He doesn't say you have only one teacher
and that's me. He says you have only one
teacher, the Christ. So Jesus here is affirming that
the only individual who will have true teaching authority in
the present of his disciples or in the future of the Jews is the
Messiah. Jesus says that's the only
person who is a true teacher in and of himself.
He's the only person who's ever going to have true teaching
authority in his own person because of who he is, rather
than the Pharisees who did have teaching authority but only
because of their office. Whereas the Messiah, because of
the very person who he is he has, he's the true teacher.
All other authoritative teachers have it only because of their
position. Hope that makes sense with the
distinction there. Now again, we know that Jesus is
in a sense using the hyperbole here, because later in the New
Testament Paul calls himself a teacher.
He allows himself to be called a teacher.
Second, Timothy one, he does that, and in fact, Paul even
teaches Christians that the office of teaching is a
legitimate church church office. It's an actual role that God
sets up is the office of teacher, and that's in one
Corinthians 12 verse 28. So Jesus, if we put together all
the information from the New Testament, Jesus is using
exaggeration here to make a point.
So let's summarize this part of the passage with the discussion
of these three titles. Rabbi, Teacher, and Father.
Jesus is using exaggeration to teach how sinful and prideful
the Pharisees were for not looking humbly to God as the
source of all authority and fatherhood and teaching, and
instead setting themselves up as the ultimate authorities,
father, figures, and leaders. He's therefore not forbidding us
or his disciples to call people these titles Father, Teacher, or
Rabbi, but he is teaching us not to ascribe fatherhood or
teacherhood, two people to a degree that they do not actually
have. We must always remember that God
is the ultimate standard for teacherhood and fatherhood.
As long as we keep that in mind, and we don't set these other
people, even priests, up as the ultimate standard of fatherhood,
as it appears the Pharisees we're trying to do, then we're
okay. That will be the Catholic
teaching verse 11. Jesus finishes by saying this
famous phrase, verse 11. The greatest among you must be
your servants. A better translation of this is
the greatest among you shall be your servant.
So Jesus here isn't making a commandment as much as he's
saying. Here's what it's going to take.
In order to be the greatest, you need to be a servant.
So this is the main point Jesus wants to make with his the whole
thing has been saying up till now is leading up till this.
Jesus wants to teach his disciples that in the Kingdom,
the one who serves other people will be the one that's
considered to be the greatest by God, not the ones who make
themselves out to be the greatest.
That's what Jesus is trying to get at.
God is more interested in how we treat each other than what our
official positions are, and that applies even to today.
So Jesus probably here is speaking specifically to his 12
apostles. He knows that soon they are
going to be the authoritative leaders of his church, and he
wants to make sure that they don't fall into the same pride
trap that the Pharisees have fallen into.
He says the Pharisees like to make themselves the greatest.
He says if you want to be the greatest, you have to make
yourself the least. Verse 12.
Anyone who humbles sorry other way around, anyone who exalts
himself. So in other words, anyone who
makes himself great and forces other people to pay respect to
him, a KA, the Pharisees will be humbled.
So this appears to mean that they'll be humbled by God.
In the Kingdom of God, these people will be humbled.
It's not clear whether that means during their own lifetime
they'll be humbled, or in the afterlife it could mean either.
And then he says the reverse. Anyone who humbles himself, so
we're talking here about anyone who makes himself low and serves
others will be exalted. So God will exalt those people
in the Kingdom. And obviously theologians as
scholars have talked a lot about how Jesus here is setting up an
upside down Kingdom. It's the opposite of everything
the Jews would have been familiar with at that time.
The greatest is the one who makes himself the lowest and
that's the end of our passage for today.
After this, if you read on Matthew chapter 23, Jesus gets
even more forceful in his criticisms of the Pharisees.
He calls them blind guys, and he tells them that their conduct is
actually preventing people from getting into the Kingdom.
So I recommend reading the rest of chapter 23.
It's well worth it. So really interesting passage.
Where does this appear in the Catechism?
Only a couple of places. So there's a brief reference to
it in the section on marriage, which is really interesting.
So paragraph 2367 on. It's in the section about the
responsibility to have children in marriage.
It says called to give life spouses share in the creative
power and fatherhood of God. And that's it.
So the paragraph goes on from there.
But that's the only part that quotes this scripture passage.
So that's kind of cool in a sense, just as God is our true
father and all paternity derives from Him, if we have children,
particularly men, then we can share in that fatherhood of God
by becoming, I guess you could say secondary fathers that
derive our fatherhood from God who is the true father.
And then in paragraph 526 is in the discussion about little
child God eternal. So comparing us to God in a
sense, it says to become a child in relation to God is the
condition for entering the Kingdom.
For this we must humble ourselves and become little even
more to become children of God. We must be born from above or
born of God. Only when Christ is formed in us
will the mystery of Christmas be fulfilled in us.
Christmas is the mystery of this marvelous exchange.
Our marvelous exchange. Man's creator has become man
born of the Virgin. We have been made shearers in
the divinity of Christ, who humbled Himself to share our
humanity. So the reference there about God
being Father and also a requirement to humble ourselves
is brought together really nicely in this paragraph about
how God humbled Himself even though He's our Father.
He humbled Himself to become a man so that we can be partakers
in his own divine life. So I'll put those two, those two
categories and paragraphs into the show notes.
Hopefully you learn something new.
This is one of my favorite passages in terms of
understanding the role of the Pharisees, because the Pharisees
appear so much in the Gospels, and if we don't understand that
they had legitimate teaching authority and Jesus believed
that they did, but he didn't approve of their practice, then
we're really going to struggle to interpret the Gospels.
So if you think there's some people who would appreciate
hearing this information about the Pharisees and Jesus
teachings about fatherhood, etcetera, then please share it
with them. Bit of a longer podcast today,
but hopefully you can see that it's been beneficial.
Thanks for listening.