Hi everyone. Welcome back to the logical.
Bible study. So in particular, I want to
welcome those who are new to the podcast who started listening
recently. I hope you're enjoying it and
getting a lot out of it. What we do in this podcast is we
look at the Gospel reading from the day's Catholic mass and we
try to provide an analysis or an exegesis of the literal sense of
the text in accordance with what the Catholic Church tells us we
should do when we study the Bible.
So we're looking today at John chapter 3 verse. 7 to 15 and
we're continuing where yesterday's reading finished.
Jesus said to Nicodemus. Do not be surprised.
When I say you must be born from above, the wind blows wherever
it, pleases, you hear it sound, but you cannot tell where it
comes from, or where it is going.
That is how it is with all who are born of the spirit.
How can that be possible? Ask Nicodemus, you a teacher in
Israel and you do not know these things replied.
Jesus, I tell you, most solemnly, we speak only about
what we know and witness only to what we have seen and yet you
people reject our evidence If you do not believe me, when I
speak about things in this world, how are you going to
believe me? When I speak to you about
Heavenly things? No one has gone up to heaven,
except the one who came down from heaven, the son of man, who
is in heaven and the son of man must be lifted up as Moses
lifted up, the serpent in the desert, so that everyone who
believes may have eternal life in him.
So the context is just, before this Jesus has started, this
conversation with Nicodemus, his Nicodemus is one of the leading
Jews and he's a Pharisee. And he comes to Jesus because
he's interested in what Jesus has to say about God.
And he wants to know more, and Jesus has just told him, unless
you were born from above. You cannot see, the kingdom of
God, verse seven and eight. I'll read them out.
Jesus said to Nicodemus, do not be surprised.
When I say you must be born from above.
Above the wind blows wherever it, pleases you hear it sound,
but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going.
That is how it is with all who are born of the spirit.
So, verse seven and eight, we looked at yesterday was part of
yesterday's reading. So if you miss that, then please
go back and have a look at yesterday's episode, and we'll
start our analysis at verse 9. So, Nicodemus says in reply, how
can this be possible? So, Nicodemus still doesn't
understand how a person can be born from above.
He just is not able to grasp how the Holy Spirit works.
It's just too foreign to him and Jesus says you are teaching in
is Israel, and you do not know these things.
So Jesus has a point here because Nicodemus and the other
Pharisees should know their Old Testament, really well.
And Jesus is saying here, while if you knew your Old Testament,
you would know the basics about the Heaven and the spiritual
world. Now, those things aren't talked
about. Clearly, there's only one
reference to the holy spirit in the Old Testament.
And heaven isn't really a concept that's made particularly
clear in the Old Testament either but it is still sort of
hinted there. And Jesus is saying that really
As a leading teacher, you should know about these things, the
Pharisees hold Spiritual Authority, over the Jewish
people and Jesus is holding them to a holding him to an account
here. He's saying, look, you've been
appointed by God to God and teach the scriptures, you really
should know this stuff. Some people have taken.
This isn't insult. When he says, you're a teacher
in Israel and you don't know these things, it could be, but
in context, it's probably more of a challenge she wants to
invite Nicodemus to think, deeper and have another go.
So, Jesus goes on, he says, I tell you most solemnly, and as
we often say in this podcast, that means is about to say,
something really important. We speak only about what we know
and witness only to what we have seen.
Now this is interesting because Jesus, he uses the word, we
who's he talking about, he could be talking about the apostles,
but in context, that doesn't seem right, it seems that
because he's just been talking about the Holy Spirit.
The one he says, we, he probably means himself and the Holy
Spirit, So off, usually, when Jesus talks about this kind of
language of, I've been with the father and that sort of thing,
he's just talks about I as the second person of the Trinity.
That's usually how he talks. But here he says, we we have
seen these things. And I think that because he's
been talking about the Holy Spirit, it makes sense that the
other person in the we is the holy spirit.
So let's read the verse again and see if it makes sense.
We speak only about what we know and witness only to what we have
seen. So I think that if Jesus is
talking here, we as in me and the Holy Spirit, he's saying we
have seen this from the father. We have received information
from the father and have communicated that to you and
that's very much in line with other things.
Jesus says in the Gospel of John On.
So if that's the right interpretation, that Jesus is
doing, we as in me and the Holy Spirit, then it's quite a
profound verse in terms of understanding that intimate
relationship between the three persons of the Trinity because
it teaches that the Son and the Holy Spirit receive all the
information from seeing the father face to face.
What's Jesus point in context though when he says we speak
only about what we know and witness only to what we have
seen his basic point to Nicodemus, is he as the Son, and
the Holy Spirit reveal to people on Earth, what the father has
revealed to them nothing more. So Jesus, basically means you
should believe me since I don't make anything up.
Everything I say comes directly from the father.
That seems to be what he's getting at, and that's why he is
encouraging Nicodemus to listen to him.
He's Saying I'm only telling you what I've heard from the father,
but Jesus goes on. And yet you people reject our
evidence or testimony is some translations, have it.
So Jesus here says that the Pharisees you people and the
other Jewish teachers are rejecting, the things that Jesus
has been saying and they don't accept that he comes from God.
So they reject what Jesus is trying to get across.
Jesus says, if you do not believe me when I speak about
things in this world now that would include things like how
the Holy Spirit works on Earth that would count as a thing in
this world. How he going to believe me, when
I speak to you about Heavenly things, such as the inner life
of the Trinity. So if Nicodemus doesn't
understand that the Holy Spirit Works in people on Earth, then
Jesus is saying, well, you haven't got a chance of
understanding what it means. For me to say, I'm from the
father and the complexities of the hole.
A spirit and The Trinity that seems to be what he's saying,
he's saying to Nicodemus, look, you have to start with the
basics. If you don't understand this
basic teaching that the Holy Spirit Works in people's lives,
then you're not going to be able to progress much further.
Remember Nicodemus, wants to get into the kingdom and Jesus is
telling him where he needs to go in order to get into the
kingdom. Jesus then follows up with this
interesting phrase. No one has gone up to heaven
except the one who came down from heaven, the son of man.
So firstly, this first some people have taken it to mean,
the Jesus is teaching that no one has ever gone to heaven,
ever at the time, that Jesus is speaking.
There's no souls in heaven. That could be what he means.
If we'd need to spend a bit of time, talking about purgatory
and Hades and how those things fit, At the time of Jesus.
But even then, I don't think Jesus is necessarily teaching
that there's no souls in heaven in context.
His basic point. When he says, no one has gone up
to heaven. Except the one who came down
from heaven, his basic point, is that no one has gone to heaven,
and come back to tell us about it.
That's what he's saying. No one has done that.
Except for the one exception, the one who came down from
heaven, who Jesus Calls the son of man.
Why does Jesus bring this up? Well, think about what he's just
been saying to Nicodemus. He's been saying if you don't
believe me about Earthly things, how will you believe me about
Heavenly things? So, Jesus point, is that the
only man who can reveal Heavenly things, is the one who has gone
up to heaven and has come back from Heaven.
That is the son of, man. That's Jesus teaching here.
And the son of man is a title for the Messiah.
So, Jesus teaching here, and this is a new teaching is that
the Messiah has in fact, descended from Heaven.
He's not just a man born on Earth.
Who is given a special Blessing by God.
The Messiah has actually descended from heaven and has
come to reveal information about heaven.
There's some books that didn't make it into the Old Testament.
For example, estrous, which is a prophecy book, talks kind of, in
similar language about how the Messiah is going to be sent from
heaven. And Jesus here, confirms that
Now there's some translational difficulties here.
This is a complex verse as is often the case with the Gospel
of John is theirs is verses where Jesus says, things that
require a lot of unpacking and meditating on.
And we could spend a lot of time talking about this.
Our lectionary has this sentence.
This way, no one has gone up to heaven.
Except the one who came down from heaven, the son of man who
is in heaven, Many manuscripts have don't put it as the son of
man who is in heaven. They just say the son of man.
And I think that's better it. The lectionary translation
doesn't make sense. When it says the son of man who
is in heaven, Jesus, clearly teaches later in the Gospel of
John, that he's the son of man then that he's not currently in
heaven. He's on Earth.
So I think that's a, probably a scribal error in the copy of the
text that the lectionary is based on.
So a better translation there is The one who came down from
heaven, the son of man. Jesus here, doesn't identify
himself as the son of man, though.
It is strongly implied. And later in the Gospel of John
Jesus would be more explicit. That he is the son of man.
So Jesus now uses what he said as a teaching moment and he's
going to give one example from the Old Testament of how
physical realities can be signs of spiritual realities.
Because remember, what his goal is in this conversation, he
wants to help Nicodemus understand, understand spiritual
realities and he Knows that Nicodemus Knows His Old
Testament reasonably. Well, Verse 14, the son of man
must be lifted up. Now, many would have taken that
to mean sort of military language.
As in the son of man, the Messiah is going to be a
military, glorious leader. He'll be lifted up but we later,
learn from other things that John says in his gospel that
when Jesus says the son of man must be lifted up.
It's a reference to the crucifixion.
Basically, the word here for lifted up his hip, so in Greek,
and that has two different meanings.
It can mean to be Lift it up from the ground or to be
exalted. Both of those occurred on the
cross both meanings, apply to what happened to Jesus on the
cross. And here, there's a reference to
the suffering servant of Isaiah 52:13.
You all know the suffering servant passage one of the
things it says there in verse 13 is that the servant will be
lifted high and exceedingly glorified.
So, both meanings of hip. So are found in Isaiah 52:13,
and Jesus Or feels both meanings on the cross.
So, Jesus here gives a prediction that he's going to
die on the cross and be lifted up and exalted.
But Jesus goes further. The son of man must be lifted up
as Moses lifted up, the serpent in the desert.
So, we want to understand a bit about what's this reference to
Moses? Lifted up the serpent in the
desert? A lot of people know a lot about
Moses life, particularly the book of Exodus, but we're less
familiar with the book of numbers and Jesus is referring
to something Moses. Does in Numbers chapter 21
Verses 4 to 9. And what's going on in this
chapter is the Israelites are in the wilderness and they're being
disobedient. They're disobeying God.
And so God sends these snakes as punishments for their sin.
The people are dying from these snake bites and they cry out to
Moses. And they say, to Moses, please
intercede on our behalf to God. So Moses does and then God tells
Moses to make a brass snake, to actually, craft a brass snake
and then put it on a high pole. And then when the Israelite
people who have been bitten, look at the poll, they will be
healed. It's a very strange thing.
But that's what God does he makes Moses, he doesn't heal
people instantaneously, he makes them look at the bronze, serpent
on the pole, God could have healed them in any way he
wanted. But the idea of course, is the
sin, sorry snakes represents sin.
And so God makes them look at this symbol of sin, this big
serpent, the symbol of sin. And when they look at the
serpent, the idea is that people recognize themselves as Sinners.
And then they're healed and they don't die.
So, it's kind of their way of accessing forgiveness, almost
forgiveness, and healing. So God could have done it lots
of ways. But here, notice what he does,
he chooses to have a visible sign in front of their eyes.
The Israelites he wants them to look at something visible and be
healed through looking at that visible thing.
So it's almost sacramental spiritual healing through a
physical reality that God puts in place.
Now, God's reasons for doing that and never unpacked in the
Old Testament, what we're saying here about it, representing sin
and things. The Old Testament, doesn't say
that, that's just our speculation, but here, even
though the Old Testament, doesn't talk about the reason
why God put The serpent on the pole and made them look at it.
Jesus gives it an explanation here.
So something which hasn't been Revisited since 1500 BC.
Jesus, now explains what was going on there.
So as Moses lifted up, the serpent, in the desert, the son
of man must be lifted up. So what's the similarity here,
between, Moses, lifted up the serpent on the pole, in the
wilderness and the son of, man, Jesus being lifted up on the
cross. Well, I think there's three main
similarities here. And this is quite profound.
Snakes are a symbol of sin and so the snakes are killing people
in the wilderness as a result of their sin.
And the similarity with the Jesus is sin, kills people
spiritually, just a snakes kill people literally, secondly,
Moses sets up a snake for them to look at, which is a symbol of
the seriousness of their sin. Jesus lifted up on the cross is
a symbol of the seriousness of our sin of all people sin.
We're supposed to look at Jesus and see that as a symbol of joy.
And how serious it is thirdly by looking at the snake on the pole
with the people were healed physically.
And when people took look to Jesus on the cross, they are
healed spiritually and given eternal life.
So, as Christians based on what Jesus teaches here, we believe
that God set up that incident of the serpent on the pole to point
towards final salvation, which Jesus would bring on the cross,
1,500 years later, Jesus deliberately did things that way
in the desert. Hurt to point people towards the
final fulfillment, which is Jesus, and that's fascinating
for us as Christians, who believe the Old Testament is
only fully revealed in the New Testament.
And Jesus. Finishes by saying, Moses lifted
up, the serpent in the wilderness just as the son of
man will be lifted up so that everyone who believes in Him may
have eternal life and that directly Echoes.
What happens in The Book of Numbers which The Book of
Numbers in that scene, says anyone who looks on the serpent
will be healed. Old.
Whereas here, it's anyone who believes may have eternal life
in him believes. You've heard me talk about this
before on the podcast believes in the Jewish context.
First century didn't mean intellectual assent as in.
I agree with this statement. It meant complete.
Trust putting your whole life. Trusting it into this belief
system about Jesus. And he mentions, he eternal
life. Anyone who believes may have
eternal life and that's something which is unpacked, a
lot in the Gospel of John. It's a major theme.
In the Gospel of John, eternal life.
According to Jesus, carries the idea of deep Supernatural,
intimacy with God, both in this life and in the next, and John
later expressly says that the reason he wrote his gospel so
that people can have eternal life.
That's what he wants. People to get out of reading the
Gospel of John, So why does Jesus use the example of the
serpent right now at this point in the conversation with
Nicodemus, as we do an exegesis on it.
I think we can say that Jesus is teaching Nicodemus, that the
example of the serpent, in the wilderness is an example of an
Earthly thing, which signifies a spiritual reality.
He knows Nicodemus knows the story about the serpent in the
wilderness. So he talks to him about that
and wants Nicodemus to realize that that was pointing to a
deeper spiritual reality. He wants has to see the
scriptures in a new spiritual way so that he can become closer
to understanding the things of God.
That's why Jesus brings up that example.
So it's actually an act of compassion.
He knows that Nicodemus is struggling a bit with these
spiritual Concepts. So Jesus gives him a physical
event that he knows Nicodemus will be aware of, and get him to
be anchored in that, Jesus continues, his conversation with
Nicodemus after this. But that's all we have today in
today's lecture, nari the very next thing he says to Nicodemus
is for God. So loved the world that he gave
his only son, John 3:16 the most famous verse in the Bible and
we're going to look at that in. Tamara's podcast.
So, where is this developed in the catechism?
There's a few places where we hear a reference to this passage
from John. There's a couple that we looked
at yesterday paragraph 5 to 6 and 591.
And then there's a few more paragraph 4.
To 3 is a summary of what Christians believe about Jesus.
And in amongst that, it says that Jesus was a carpenter by
trade, who died crucified in Jerusalem under the procurator
Pontius Pilate during the reign of Emperor Tiberius.
He is the Eternal son made, man, he came from God, descended from
heaven and came in the flesh. So that there is a quote, from
John chapter 3 here. So that's what Catholics believe
is, that Jesus wasn't just a man.
He was the second person of the Trinity that descended from God.
Paragraph 440 is a similar reference to Jesus coming down
from heaven. In the discussion about who the
Christ is paragraph, 661 is a discussion about the Ascension
and the talks about this verse here.
From John chapter 3, about no one has ascended to heaven.
And he is how the catechism uses that verse paragraph. 661 this
final stage stays closely linked to the first, that is to his
descent from heaven, in the in Incarnation, only the one who
came from the father can return to the father Christ.
Jesus quote. No one has ascended into heaven,
but he who is descended from Heaven.
The son of man, unquote, left to its own natural Powers Humanity,
does not have access to the father's house to God's life and
happiness. Only Christ can open to man's
such access that we his members might have confidence that we
too shall go, where he our head and our Us has preceded us.
So, that's a really awesome paragraph from the catechism.
It says that Justice. Jesus, descended from heaven in
the Incarnation. He eventually ascended back.
There Heaven is his home. And as a result of him, his
Ascension, we as Christians now have access to Heaven, as well.
Lastly paragraph to 130 is in the discussion about the Ten
Commandments and in the discussion about the
Commandment, you shall not make for yourself a Graven image.
It references what Jesus says here about making the serpent in
the wilderness because think about it in the Book of Numbers
in when Moses is commanded to make this bronze, serpent
essentially that's making a Graven image of something.
So you could say that God is commanding Moses to make an idle
almost. And that's exactly the catechism
talks about it in these terms, although, God bands images of
himself already in the Old Testament, God ordained or
permitted, the making of images, that pointed symbolically
towards salvation by the Incarnate Word.
So, it was with the bronze serpent, the Ark of the Covenant
and the cherubim. So the catechism teaches that
although God does Pro The Israelites from making images of
God, he allows exceptions. When God specifically tells them
to build something that is in a sense, going to foreshadow the
coming Messiah. So that's an interesting
understanding. There's more we could say about
this, but we'll leave it there for today.
Hopefully, you learn something new.
If you have, please share it around and we'll see you again
tomorrow.