1 00:00:10,700 --> 00:00:12,900 Hi everyone. Welcome back again to The 2 00:00:12,900 --> 00:00:16,400 Logical Bible study podcast. Today we have quite a long 3 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:18,300 reading so we're going to get straight into it. 4 00:00:18,300 --> 00:00:22,100 This is the reading you would hear at today's mass so it's the 5 00:00:22,100 --> 00:00:25,100 Gospel reading and then we're going to go through it verse by 6 00:00:25,100 --> 00:00:27,900 verse to see if we can understand what it means. 7 00:00:27,900 --> 00:00:29,800 And there's a whole lot of really interesting stuff. 8 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,600 Smart. And so, Mark chapter 9 verses 38 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:38,700 to 43 Verse 45 and verses 47 to 48. 10 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:44,400 John said to Jesus Master. We saw a man who is not one of 11 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,400 us, casting out devils in your name. 12 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,500 And because he was not one of us, we try to stop him. 13 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,400 But Jesus said, you must not stop him. 14 00:00:54,700 --> 00:00:59,000 No one who works a miracle in. My name is likely to speak, evil 15 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,300 of me. Anyone who is not against us, is 16 00:01:02,300 --> 00:01:05,300 for us. If anyone gives you a cup of 17 00:01:05,300 --> 00:01:09,100 water to drink just because you belong to Christ, then I tell 18 00:01:09,100 --> 00:01:13,300 you solemnly he will most certainly not lose his reward. 19 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,200 But anyone who is an obstacle to bring down one of these little 20 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,100 ones who have faith would be better thrown into the sea with 21 00:01:22,100 --> 00:01:23,800 a great millstone around his neck. 22 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:28,800 And if your hand should cause you to sin, cut it off, it is 23 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,300 better for you to enter into life crippled than to have two 24 00:01:32,300 --> 00:01:34,700 hands and go to hell into the fire. 25 00:01:34,700 --> 00:01:38,700 That cannot be put out and if your foot should cause you to 26 00:01:38,700 --> 00:01:43,200 sin, cut it off, it is better for you to enter into life lame 27 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,400 than to have Fate and be thrown into hell. 28 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,000 And if you're I should cause you to sin, tear it out, it is 29 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,300 better for you to enter into the kingdom of God, with one eye 30 00:01:54,500 --> 00:01:57,600 than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell. 31 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:02,100 Where their worm does not die nor their fire go out. 32 00:02:04,500 --> 00:02:06,400 So that's a reading today from Mark. 33 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,000 And what's interesting about this is we have a whole lot of 34 00:02:09,699 --> 00:02:12,100 interesting teachings in and of themselves that have been put 35 00:02:12,100 --> 00:02:15,200 together here by Mark. And Matthew includes basically 36 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,600 all of these same teachings, but he puts him in different places. 37 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,000 So it's not entirely clear. If Jesus said all of these 38 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,400 things on the same occasion or whether markers, rearranged them 39 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,400 to make an overall point here. So there's quite a few different 40 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,700 bits to analyze you. What's the context? 41 00:02:31,700 --> 00:02:34,100 So Jesus is moving through Galilee. 42 00:02:34,500 --> 00:02:39,100 With his disciples and they've reached capernum this particular 43 00:02:39,100 --> 00:02:40,500 scene. If you followed what happened 44 00:02:40,500 --> 00:02:45,100 earlier in Mark chapter 9, this scene takes place in Jesus own 45 00:02:45,100 --> 00:02:48,400 house, in Capernaum. This is a private briefing, with 46 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:50,800 his disciples. So they're in Jesus house in 47 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,200 Capernaum and they've been arguing about, who is the 48 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,900 greatest and at that point, Jesus said a child in front of 49 00:02:56,900 --> 00:03:00,400 them and said anyone who welcomes one of these little 50 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:05,000 children in my name, welcomes me and anyone who Seems me 51 00:03:05,100 --> 00:03:09,400 welcomes, not me, but the one who sent me so that conversation 52 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:13,200 is just happened. And now we get to verse 38, John 53 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,600 said to Jesus. So this is the Apostle, John, 54 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:20,200 the sons of Zebedee, the author of The Gospel of John, he says, 55 00:03:20,700 --> 00:03:24,700 master or teacher. We saw a man who is not one of 56 00:03:24,700 --> 00:03:27,800 us. Now, the apostles must have seen 57 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,400 this man earlier. When Jesus wasn't around, this 58 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,500 must have been at some point when Jesus didn't see it happen. 59 00:03:34,300 --> 00:03:38,400 But John goes on, he says we saw a man who is not one of us as in 60 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:42,100 not one of our group, one of our disciples group, casting out 61 00:03:42,100 --> 00:03:45,500 devils in your name. So, this is an interesting 62 00:03:45,500 --> 00:03:50,800 situation, there's a man doing exorcisms in Jesus name and it 63 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,500 wasn't uncommon in that time for Jews to do exorcisms. 64 00:03:54,700 --> 00:03:58,600 Certainly some Jews were able to do X's exorcisms but doing them 65 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,300 in Jesus name was new, usually they will do it in God's name. 66 00:04:02,900 --> 00:04:06,100 Apparently some people in Including this man were inspired 67 00:04:06,100 --> 00:04:09,700 by Jesus ministry and they genuinely had faith in Jesus, 68 00:04:09,700 --> 00:04:14,700 so, they started doing exorcism using Jesus genuine power and 69 00:04:14,700 --> 00:04:17,800 using his name, and these appear to be genuine Believers. 70 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,399 People, who actually do believe in Jesus and who are now doing 71 00:04:21,399 --> 00:04:24,500 exorcisms in his name? The problem of course is that 72 00:04:24,500 --> 00:04:28,600 they're not officially approved, it's not a recognized Apostle 73 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,500 and it's not someone that the apostles have officially 74 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:33,700 Commander to do this or commission to do this. 75 00:04:33,700 --> 00:04:36,800 So he's not Officially approved but he is still doing it 76 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,200 effectively. Now, interestingly you Scholars 77 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,300 point out here that this links to the previous episode when 78 00:04:43,300 --> 00:04:46,300 Jesus was talking about anyone who receives one of these little 79 00:04:46,300 --> 00:04:49,600 ones. In my name, verse 37 will here 80 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,400 again, we have the mention of Jesus name, someone's doing 81 00:04:53,900 --> 00:04:57,900 exorcisms in Jesus name, So, John goes on. 82 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,200 He was casting out devils in your name and because he was not 83 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,800 one of us or more literally, because he was not following us. 84 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,400 We tried to stop him or what it actually says there is. 85 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,100 We forbade him. So, the apostles went up to him, 86 00:05:12,500 --> 00:05:15,100 when they saw him doing this and said, you're not a follower of 87 00:05:15,100 --> 00:05:17,400 us. We forbid you from doing this. 88 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,200 The apostles use their Apostolic power to forbid him from doing 89 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,700 exorcisms. This is reminiscent of Joshua in 90 00:05:24,700 --> 00:05:28,500 the Old Testament, trying to stop Men who were prophesying 91 00:05:28,500 --> 00:05:31,700 but who weren't officially approved to be Prophets. 92 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,100 You said that in Numbers Chapter 11, it's a very similar 93 00:05:35,100 --> 00:05:37,700 situation because there it appears, they were doing genuine 94 00:05:37,700 --> 00:05:39,700 prophecies. Even though they weren't 95 00:05:39,900 --> 00:05:44,300 officially approved profits. Similar situation may be the 96 00:05:44,300 --> 00:05:47,300 apostles here are jealous because they themselves are 97 00:05:47,300 --> 00:05:50,400 struggling to cast out demons. So earlier in this same chapter 98 00:05:50,700 --> 00:05:54,300 in verse 18, we learned that the apostles themselves are 99 00:05:54,300 --> 00:05:56,500 struggling to cast out certain kinds of demons. 100 00:05:58,300 --> 00:06:01,400 Notice though, the apostles do have legitimate authority to 101 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,400 forbid, people to do this. They as Apostles that seems are 102 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:09,300 allowed to forbid people, from exercising, this ministry, they 103 00:06:09,300 --> 00:06:11,400 have the power to stop people from doing this. 104 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,600 Jesus doesn't deny that they have the power to forbade people 105 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,400 from doing stuff. But what he does say to them is 106 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,800 you must not stop him or more literally do not forbid him. 107 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,200 So, like in the Joshua situation, Moses corrects Joshua 108 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:31,300 in 11:29 and Moses says to Joshua, you must let these must 109 00:06:31,300 --> 00:06:34,400 let these prophets continue. Well, here Jesus says to his 110 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,900 disciples and particularly to John do not forbid him. 111 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,100 He corrects John's John's jealousy and tells John not to 112 00:06:42,100 --> 00:06:44,600 prevent people from doing exorcisms in his name. 113 00:06:45,300 --> 00:06:50,200 Jesus goes on no one who works a miracle in my name is likely to 114 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,500 speak evil of me. Or what it actually says. 115 00:06:53,500 --> 00:06:56,800 There is no one. Who does a mighty work in my 116 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,600 name will be able soon after to speak evil of me. 117 00:07:01,500 --> 00:07:04,600 So apparently Jesus point is that those who are able to 118 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,700 perform Mighty Works in his name, which apparently some 119 00:07:07,700 --> 00:07:11,500 people could do, they will soon realize that he has genuine 120 00:07:11,500 --> 00:07:15,100 power and they're likely to become Jesus followers anyway. 121 00:07:15,300 --> 00:07:18,800 So he's saying that look, if anyone is using my name, even if 122 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,500 they're not officially approved, they're going to start realizing 123 00:07:21,500 --> 00:07:24,100 that me. Echoes In My Name work and as a 124 00:07:24,100 --> 00:07:26,300 result they're going to put their faith in me and become a, 125 00:07:26,300 --> 00:07:29,700 genuine follower of me. So Jesus says that all things 126 00:07:29,700 --> 00:07:32,300 considered they're going to become followers of me. 127 00:07:32,300 --> 00:07:35,000 Anyway. In fact, Jesus will later say 128 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,600 that those who believe in him will be able to drive out demons 129 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,000 in his name. He says that in Mark 16:17. 130 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,700 So, Jesus anticipates that people will have this power when 131 00:07:45,700 --> 00:07:49,200 they use his name. And then Jesus, says, anyone who 132 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:53,800 is not against us is for us. Now, this can mean different 133 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,600 things and in the context of Jesus ministry, he's saying, 134 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,800 that anyone who is doing things in the name of Jesus, and the 135 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,000 kingdom is on the same side as the apostles. 136 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,300 So perhaps, what this man is doing is not entirely 137 00:08:08,300 --> 00:08:11,300 appropriate, we can probably say that this man shouldn't really 138 00:08:11,300 --> 00:08:12,800 be doing it because he's not commissioned. 139 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,200 So it's not entirely appropriate, but given the short 140 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:20,100 time that Jesus is on Earth, he wants his name to spread as far 141 00:08:20,100 --> 00:08:22,200 as possible. So he's willing to allow But 142 00:08:22,500 --> 00:08:25,500 this is kind of similar to what Jesus says about fasting when he 143 00:08:25,500 --> 00:08:29,300 says while I'm on Earth it's not appropriate for my followers to 144 00:08:29,300 --> 00:08:32,100 fast but when I'm gone then they'll fast. 145 00:08:32,100 --> 00:08:34,799 So this might be one of these cases where Jesus says look it's 146 00:08:34,799 --> 00:08:39,000 not ideal but given that I'm only here for a short time. 147 00:08:39,700 --> 00:08:42,799 It's okay for this to happen while I'm on Earth and doing 148 00:08:42,799 --> 00:08:46,900 this ministry. So Jesus here might be directing 149 00:08:46,900 --> 00:08:50,900 the disciples to take a stance of openness towards those who 150 00:08:50,900 --> 00:08:53,600 are not in the formal bounds of the church. 151 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,900 He's telling them not to consider them furrows, possibly 152 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:02,100 Keep in mind though that Matthew chapter 12 verse 31, it reports 153 00:09:02,100 --> 00:09:05,200 this saying also adds the converse and Matthew. 12 verse 154 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:10,000 30 says, whoever is not with me is against me although that's 155 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,800 not here in marks version. So there's a lot to consider 156 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,700 here in terms of what Jesus might be trying to tell the 157 00:09:15,700 --> 00:09:18,900 apostles verse 41, Jesus changes. 158 00:09:18,900 --> 00:09:22,300 His thought here slightly, if anyone gives you a cup of water 159 00:09:22,300 --> 00:09:26,300 to drink just because you belong to Christ, what it actually 160 00:09:26,300 --> 00:09:27,800 says. There is because you bear the 161 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,000 Name of Christ. There's that theme of name of 162 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,000 Christ again. So, Jesus, here is saying that 163 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,100 anyone who even helps a disciple of Jesus is on Jesus side. 164 00:09:37,700 --> 00:09:41,100 Anyone who even helps a disciple of Jesus, is on his side though 165 00:09:41,100 --> 00:09:43,500 don't have to perform Mighty Works in Jesus name. 166 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,900 Anyone who even gives him so much as a cup of cold water, 167 00:09:47,100 --> 00:09:49,300 which of course, will be very useful in that Society. 168 00:09:49,300 --> 00:09:51,300 Because if the apostles are going around preaching, in the 169 00:09:51,300 --> 00:09:54,900 hot weather, a cup of cold water, will we actually are very 170 00:09:54,900 --> 00:09:58,600 much needed by the apostles. So Jesus says Anyone who gives 171 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,600 you even so much. As a cold cup of water is on 172 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,500 Jesus side and the side of the Kingdom. 173 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,500 Jesus, here is saying that the apostles mission in preaching, 174 00:10:07,500 --> 00:10:10,700 the kingdom of God is so important that anyone who 175 00:10:10,700 --> 00:10:14,400 cooperates with it. Even in a small way like giving 176 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,500 the Christian a cup of water will be rewarded. 177 00:10:18,300 --> 00:10:21,100 This is actually the same basic teaching as the parable of the 178 00:10:21,100 --> 00:10:24,900 sheep and the goats where Jesus says, people will be rewarded 179 00:10:24,900 --> 00:10:27,300 based on how they treat Christians as a similar kind of 180 00:10:27,308 --> 00:10:29,700 thing here. Jesus is trying to communicate 181 00:10:29,700 --> 00:10:31,100 to them. That look, even if they're not 182 00:10:31,100 --> 00:10:34,200 officially approved, you're going to meet many people who 183 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,900 are going to Help you and God will approve of them because 184 00:10:36,900 --> 00:10:38,500 they're helping the Our Kingdom work. 185 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,600 Jesus says, then I tell you solemnly he will most certainly 186 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,900 not lose his reward. So anyone who helps the apostles 187 00:10:45,900 --> 00:10:49,600 and the kingdom is approved by God and he will not lose his 188 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,700 reward. Interesting phrasing. 189 00:10:51,700 --> 00:10:53,600 Isn't it? This verse implies that it's 190 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,200 possible for someone in the Kingdom to lose the rewards. 191 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,700 If he's saying they will not lose their reward that would 192 00:11:00,700 --> 00:11:03,400 seem to imply that some people could lose their rewards. 193 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,000 What does it? I mean, by reward, and you could 194 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,500 interpret this different ways, probably hear. 195 00:11:08,500 --> 00:11:11,400 It means something like degrees of Glory, in heaven. 196 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,500 The teaching of Jesus, is that people can be in the kingdom. 197 00:11:14,700 --> 00:11:17,100 And in the next life, they can be in the Kingdom with God, but 198 00:11:17,100 --> 00:11:20,700 they can lose their reward, which kind of means they can 199 00:11:20,700 --> 00:11:22,600 lose their degree of Glory in heaven. 200 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,100 This is an interesting teaching, but it is actually part of 201 00:11:25,300 --> 00:11:29,100 Catholic teaching, as well. We move on to a different 202 00:11:29,100 --> 00:11:31,700 section now, and this next section appears in different 203 00:11:31,700 --> 00:11:35,200 contexts in both Matthew. So it's in Matthew chapter 18, 204 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:41,400 where Jesus gives his kind of sermon about disciples and also 205 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,600 in Luke chapter 17. So it's in different contexts 206 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:49,100 there, for this reason, some Scholars think that maybe Mark 207 00:11:49,100 --> 00:11:53,800 here has inserted these words. In this spot even though they 208 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,000 didn't occur on this occasion, maybe Mark is trying to make it 209 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,300 seem like Jesus said this straight, after his teaching 210 00:12:00,300 --> 00:12:03,300 about being broad-minded, perhaps this is just a theory 211 00:12:03,300 --> 00:12:06,500 but maybe Mark wants his readers to not. 212 00:12:06,500 --> 00:12:08,900 He wants to ensure that his readers don't take away the 213 00:12:08,900 --> 00:12:10,700 wrong message. From what he's just said about 214 00:12:10,700 --> 00:12:15,000 being open-minded to people. Maybe Mark is saying there's a 215 00:12:15,008 --> 00:12:18,900 place for being open, but he also wants to remind them, that 216 00:12:18,900 --> 00:12:21,900 Jesus teaches that sin is a serious matter. 217 00:12:22,100 --> 00:12:26,300 Openness yes to an extent but not so open that we allow sin. 218 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,200 In other words, if God graciously rewards little acts 219 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,700 of kindness, on the other hand, he's going to severely punish 220 00:12:33,700 --> 00:12:38,200 acts of evil especially as will see acts that involve Scandal 221 00:12:39,100 --> 00:12:41,500 verse 42. Jesus says to the disciples, 222 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,500 anyone who is an obstacle to bring down. 223 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:47,700 Now, this is an interesting phrase here, this can be 224 00:12:47,700 --> 00:12:50,900 translated different ways. It can be translated whoever 225 00:12:50,900 --> 00:12:54,900 causes one of Of these little ones who believe in me to sin, 226 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,900 or you can even translate this stumble. 227 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,100 The Greek word here is scandalize 0, which means to 228 00:13:01,100 --> 00:13:04,300 bring someone to ruin interesting scandalize. 229 00:13:04,300 --> 00:13:07,500 Oh to bring someone to ruin most translations here, understand, 230 00:13:07,500 --> 00:13:11,400 Jesus here to be talking about Temptations to sin Jesus. 231 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,700 Here says anyone who brings temptation to sin to others and 232 00:13:15,700 --> 00:13:18,300 that of course, is what we would call the sin of Scandal. 233 00:13:18,300 --> 00:13:21,200 So here we have one of the key passages about the sin of 234 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,900 Scandal And indeed, it comes from the Greek word here 235 00:13:23,900 --> 00:13:27,500 scandalize. Oh, anyone who causes one of 236 00:13:27,500 --> 00:13:29,700 these little ones who believe in me to sin. 237 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,700 Now, who are these little ones? What it actually says here, in 238 00:13:32,700 --> 00:13:36,200 marks version is one of these little ones who have faith or 239 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,500 one of these little ones who believe in me, who is that, who 240 00:13:39,500 --> 00:13:42,300 are the little ones? There's two different ways of 241 00:13:42,300 --> 00:13:46,100 interpreting this. It could refer to children as in 242 00:13:46,100 --> 00:13:49,500 biological children and remember in this very same scene, just 243 00:13:49,500 --> 00:13:52,700 before this Jesus said a child in In front of him. 244 00:13:53,100 --> 00:13:56,100 So maybe he is talking about children, but it could also mean 245 00:13:56,100 --> 00:14:00,000 new disciples in general. So new people who are new in the 246 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:04,100 faith and that would also fit with what Jesus has just said 247 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,100 about spreading the kingdom and about how people are going to 248 00:14:07,100 --> 00:14:08,500 join them in spreading the kingdom. 249 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,100 It seems when we put this together with the contexts, when 250 00:14:12,100 --> 00:14:15,200 Jesus says this, in the other gospels that looks like Jesus is 251 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:19,100 talking about young disciples or those who are new Believers, not 252 00:14:19,100 --> 00:14:21,900 biological children. So it's best to understand. 253 00:14:22,100 --> 00:14:25,900 These words as Jesus talking about those who are weak or 254 00:14:25,900 --> 00:14:28,300 vulnerable in the faith and that would probably include young 255 00:14:28,300 --> 00:14:30,900 children. But basically anyone who's a new 256 00:14:30,900 --> 00:14:36,100 believer, Jesus says, anyone who causes one of these little ones 257 00:14:36,700 --> 00:14:40,200 who believe in me to sin, it would be better thrown into the 258 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:44,300 sea with a great millstone around his neck or another 259 00:14:44,300 --> 00:14:46,100 translation. Here is it will be better for 260 00:14:46,100 --> 00:14:49,500 him if a great Millstone were hung around his neck and he were 261 00:14:49,500 --> 00:14:51,900 thrown into the sea. Pretty strong words here from 262 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,600 Jesus firstly, what's a millstone? 263 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,500 A millstone is, a very heavy Stone. 264 00:14:56,500 --> 00:14:58,300 It's often called a donkey Millstone. 265 00:14:58,300 --> 00:15:01,200 It's a heavy donut shaped stone that it was. 266 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,800 It was so heavy. It could actually only be turned 267 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,400 by a donkey humans. Couldn't turn this but donkeys 268 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,000 could so if a person was to have this hung around their neck they 269 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,200 would quickly. Drown Jesus here is giving us an 270 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,600 image of a quick death, but a horrible death. 271 00:15:15,900 --> 00:15:19,400 It's a severe punishment in the Old Testament, it's reserved for 272 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,500 God's enemies in the Old Testament, if you think of 273 00:15:21,500 --> 00:15:26,200 Exodus Teen pharaoh and his army drown Nehemiah 11 talks about 274 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,400 God's enemies drowning Zechariah 9 and then even in Revelation 18 275 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,300 verse 21, it talks about God's enemies drowning. 276 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,200 Now, when Jesus he says it will be better for him to be thrown 277 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,400 into the sea with a great millstone around his neck. 278 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,900 It probably is a hyperbole Jesus is probably exaggerating to make 279 00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:48,100 a point, but certainly his emphasizing the seriousness of 280 00:15:48,100 --> 00:15:51,400 leading those who are weak in faith into sin, this is a 281 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,000 warning to his Disciples. Jesus is saying that have a 282 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,500 particular responsibility to ensure that they model the faith 283 00:15:57,500 --> 00:16:02,000 well and don't lead others into sin by their words and actions. 284 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,600 He's saying this is serious make sure you are not a temptation of 285 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,800 sin to others. So what then does it mean for 286 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,800 Jesus to say it will be better for him to be thrown into the 287 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:13,200 sea. Why would it be better for him 288 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,500 to be thrown into the sea? There's two main interpretations 289 00:16:16,500 --> 00:16:20,400 here maybe Jesus is teaching that it will be better if the 290 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,700 person was dead. And therefore not able to lead 291 00:16:23,700 --> 00:16:27,500 others into scandal in the first place, or maybe Jesus is 292 00:16:27,500 --> 00:16:29,800 emphasizing the punishment that will come. 293 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,500 If a person does lead someone young into sin, Jesus is saying 294 00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:36,200 that, if you lead someone into sin, you are going to have a 295 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:37,900 very serious punishment ahead of you. 296 00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:42,500 And in that sense, it will be better for you to drown to have 297 00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:45,900 that punishment, compared to the Eternal punishment that will 298 00:16:45,900 --> 00:16:48,500 result otherwise. So there's a couple of different 299 00:16:48,500 --> 00:16:51,900 ways of looking at this. Jesus is now going to talk about 300 00:16:51,900 --> 00:16:56,900 taking drastic measures to avoid sin and indeed, he's going to 301 00:16:56,908 --> 00:17:00,400 talk about the consequences of what happens if you do commit, a 302 00:17:00,408 --> 00:17:02,000 mortal sin. If you're not careful to guard 303 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,900 yourself against sin, this actually matches. 304 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,500 What Jesus said earlier about, forfeiting one's life, Jesus 305 00:17:08,500 --> 00:17:12,500 says, what does it gain a man to have the whole world, but to 306 00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:15,500 Forfeit one's life, and there he's talking about forfeiting 307 00:17:15,500 --> 00:17:17,599 eternal life. So Jesus teaching all the way 308 00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:19,800 through is that through your actions. 309 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,599 Your choices, you can forfeit eternal life and we're going to 310 00:17:22,608 --> 00:17:25,300 see that here. Now, in the context of what 311 00:17:25,300 --> 00:17:28,500 Jesus has just said, Jesus is probably thinking, particularly 312 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,300 of Scandal. He's in his thinking, 313 00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:35,600 particularly of ensuring that the apostles minimize their 314 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,200 opportunity to cause others to sin. 315 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,300 Verse 43. Jesus says, if your hand causes 316 00:17:42,300 --> 00:17:45,400 you to sin and in the Greek here, it says, if your hand 317 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,900 causes you to scandalize. Oh, cut it off. 318 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,700 Now, this is very famous. Phrase of Jesus, isn't it? 319 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,400 This is accepted by pretty much all Scholars. 320 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,700 As a hyperbole Jesus is not saying, literally cut off your 321 00:17:57,700 --> 00:18:01,700 hand, if it makes it prone to sin, it seems that Jesus is 322 00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:05,600 exaggerating to make a point. This was a common Jewish way of 323 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,700 teaching at the time, they would sort of shoot over the mark, in 324 00:18:08,700 --> 00:18:10,700 order to make the Wait a similar. 325 00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:14,300 Hyperbole is when Jesus says in The Sermon on the Mount, do not. 326 00:18:14,300 --> 00:18:16,600 Let your left hand, know what your right hand is doing now. 327 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,400 That's physically impossible. So here we have a similar 328 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:23,500 teaching, it's a hyperbole an exaggeration, but he's still 329 00:18:23,500 --> 00:18:27,700 making a very serious Point his calling for the crowd, for the 330 00:18:27,700 --> 00:18:32,900 disciples to take drastic action to stop sin at its root, and 331 00:18:32,900 --> 00:18:35,400 that's primarily the will. This is a teaching about cutting 332 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,500 sin off at the root, which is the human will. 333 00:18:38,900 --> 00:18:40,600 Geez. This is telling his disciples, 334 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,600 that they must do everything they can, to avoid the near 335 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:48,800 occasion of sin, and they need to be willing to take ruthless 336 00:18:49,100 --> 00:18:52,600 drastic action against their sinful drives so that they can 337 00:18:53,100 --> 00:18:55,800 enter eternal life. If they don't control their sin, 338 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,800 and if they do fall into mortal sin because they didn't keep a 339 00:18:58,808 --> 00:19:01,900 guard on their will, they could forfeit eternal life. 340 00:19:01,900 --> 00:19:05,500 That's the teaching here. His warning, his disciples Jesus 341 00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:08,900 says, it is better for you to enter into life crippled than to 342 00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:12,200 have Hands. And go to hell and the Greek. 343 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,500 Wait here for Hailey's Gahanna, we need to talk a bit about this 344 00:19:15,500 --> 00:19:17,200 word. Gehenna, oh, comes up a bit in 345 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,400 the gospels. Whenever Jesus talks about 346 00:19:19,408 --> 00:19:21,600 Gannett gehenna. He's referring to what we would 347 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,700 Now call hell. Jesus listeners would have 348 00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:26,500 shuddered At The Mention of the word. 349 00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:30,700 Gehenna in Hebrew, Gahanna means the Valley of the son of hinnom, 350 00:19:30,700 --> 00:19:33,900 and this is a real place in Israel. 351 00:19:33,900 --> 00:19:38,100 So it's a Steep Ravine, South of West of Jerusalem, and it shows 352 00:19:38,100 --> 00:19:39,300 up a couple of times in the Old Testament. 353 00:19:39,300 --> 00:19:42,000 Testament. Firstly, idolatrous Israelites 354 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,900 had sacrificed their own children to the Pagan. 355 00:19:44,900 --> 00:19:49,300 God, Molech in Jeremiah 7 and 19, at talks about the valley of 356 00:19:49,300 --> 00:19:51,900 hinnom being where they sacrifice to the Pagan. 357 00:19:51,900 --> 00:19:54,400 God, Molech. And then later under the reforms 358 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:59,200 of King Josiah, this same vial site was desecrated, so the 359 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,800 righteous King took a back in Second Kings, 23. 360 00:20:02,900 --> 00:20:05,200 But later, it became a garbage dump. 361 00:20:06,300 --> 00:20:09,400 Full of maggot, ridden carcasses and burning refuse. 362 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,700 So late in the Old Testament, the valley of gehenna was 363 00:20:12,700 --> 00:20:16,600 actually a garbage dump. It constantly had burning refuse 364 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:18,300 and there was actually maggots in there. 365 00:20:18,300 --> 00:20:22,700 So the valley of hinnom gehenna was a place that most of Jesus 366 00:20:22,700 --> 00:20:25,100 readers would have been too and they would have actually seen 367 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:29,500 this smoldering pile of rubbish. So Jesus uses it as an image of 368 00:20:29,500 --> 00:20:32,900 Hell in Jewish extra biblical literature. 369 00:20:32,900 --> 00:20:34,900 So some of the stuff that was written between the Old 370 00:20:34,900 --> 00:20:37,400 Testament and New Testament, Estimate gehenna. 371 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,700 So in the Years, leading up to Jesus, gehenna became an image 372 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,000 of the future punishment of the Damned. 373 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,600 So if you look at the Book of Enoch 1, Enoch, particularly it 374 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:51,900 talks there about how he'll the future Eternal punishment is in 375 00:20:51,900 --> 00:20:54,700 a way like, your henna. So, Jesus is not the first one 376 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:59,100 to say that to call Hal Gahanna. That was a common way of 377 00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:01,200 describing. How at that time, many people 378 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,900 don't realize this, when Jesus calls hell gehenna, they would 379 00:21:04,900 --> 00:21:07,400 have known exactly what, What he was talking about this Burning 380 00:21:07,500 --> 00:21:11,400 Peter rubbish, Jesus uses it. In the sense of this is what 381 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,700 eternal life will be like, so Jesus. 382 00:21:14,700 --> 00:21:18,900 He says, if your hand causes you to sin cut it off, it's better 383 00:21:18,900 --> 00:21:22,400 to enter into eternal life maimed than to go to get Hannah, 384 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:24,600 Jesus here. Teaches that, although dealing 385 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,200 with sinful thoughts in this way, might be painful and 386 00:21:27,208 --> 00:21:32,800 difficult, it's far better than ending up in hell and Jesus 387 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,600 here. Teachers that hands, if you 388 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,700 think about it, he says This can be involved in mortal sin, 389 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,800 particularly if it causes Scandal, Jesus is thinking 390 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,500 particularly of Scandal, the clear teaching here is it's 391 00:21:43,500 --> 00:21:47,300 possible to do things with your hands that can land. 392 00:21:47,300 --> 00:21:49,700 You in hell, it's possible to commit a mortal sin if you're 393 00:21:49,700 --> 00:21:54,900 not careful and think about it. Jesus teaching here depending on 394 00:21:54,900 --> 00:21:57,500 how literally we take the metaphor, Jesus does seem to be 395 00:21:57,500 --> 00:21:59,800 teaching that he'll will be in some sense. 396 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,800 A physical bodily experience is saying you'll be tormented in 397 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,300 hell The teaching of the Catholic church is that everyone 398 00:22:08,300 --> 00:22:10,600 will have a body in the afterlife, even those in hell 399 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,800 will have a body. So, Jesus metaphor about hands 400 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,300 and soon about eyes and feet. It's quite graphic when he says 401 00:22:18,300 --> 00:22:20,700 pluck out your eye cut off your hand, but it's actually quite 402 00:22:20,700 --> 00:22:24,100 well matched because Jesus is saying that look in eternal 403 00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:25,900 life, you are going to have body parts. 404 00:22:26,100 --> 00:22:28,800 So if your body parts cause you a problem in this life, you need 405 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,700 to do something about it. So, the physicality here is 406 00:22:31,700 --> 00:22:35,300 somewhat deliberate on Jesus part because eternal life is 407 00:22:35,300 --> 00:22:37,800 quite Cool. So there's a lot going on in 408 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,200 this passage and a lot of this could have its own separate 409 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,700 episode or a whole sermon given on individual lines of this 410 00:22:44,700 --> 00:22:47,400 teaching here. So, Jesus goes on, he says it 411 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,700 will be better for you to enter into life crippled than to have 412 00:22:49,700 --> 00:22:53,400 two hands and go to hell. And then he says that is the 413 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,400 fire that cannot be put out or more. 414 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,400 Literally, the unquenchable fire. 415 00:22:57,700 --> 00:22:59,600 Jesus says, that's a good image of Hell. 416 00:22:59,900 --> 00:23:03,100 Unquenchable Fire kind of like the valley of gehenna was in 417 00:23:03,100 --> 00:23:06,500 their own day. Now you might Have wondered when 418 00:23:06,500 --> 00:23:07,900 we first started this reading today. 419 00:23:07,900 --> 00:23:11,100 Why is it skip a few verses? So today we're looking at verses 420 00:23:11,100 --> 00:23:15,500 38 to 43 and then 45 and then verses 47 and 248. 421 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,800 So why don't we read verse 44 and verse 46? 422 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,500 It's because most manuscripts don't have it. 423 00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:25,400 They don't have verse 44, but some manuscripts. 424 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,800 Do. So some manuscripts have verse 425 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,100 44. It's actually a double up of 426 00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:34,500 later verse 48. So verse 44 says this into the 427 00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:38,200 fire, that cannot be put in Where their worm does not die 428 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,900 nor their fire go out. So this phrase here about where 429 00:23:42,900 --> 00:23:45,500 their worm does not die nor their fire go out. 430 00:23:46,100 --> 00:23:49,000 It's the same as verse 48. So nothing is lost here, even if 431 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,400 we say it wasn't in the original manuscripts, it is certainly 432 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,800 verse. 48 was certainly in the original manuscripts. 433 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,400 What is Jesus mean here when he says where their worm does not 434 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,700 die, nor their fire goes out. It seems to Echo a description 435 00:24:02,900 --> 00:24:05,600 of Eternal punishment in the book of Isaiah. 436 00:24:05,700 --> 00:24:09,100 So Isaiah describes the fate of God's enemies this way. 437 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,700 Their worm shall not die nor their fire be extinguished and 438 00:24:13,700 --> 00:24:16,000 they shall be abhorrent to all mankind. 439 00:24:16,100 --> 00:24:20,700 That's in Isaiah 66 verse 24. Now in the time of why Zaire 440 00:24:20,700 --> 00:24:23,900 they hadn't fully worked out this idea of Eternal punishment. 441 00:24:23,900 --> 00:24:26,700 So probably when Isaiah is speaking, he's thinking of 442 00:24:27,100 --> 00:24:30,900 temporal Earthly punishment that God will inflict on his enemies. 443 00:24:30,900 --> 00:24:34,700 But Jesus sees in here and perhaps when I was I was giving 444 00:24:34,700 --> 00:24:37,300 this, it was a prophecy. That it's a good image of 445 00:24:37,300 --> 00:24:40,600 Eternal punishment. Their worm shall not die nor 446 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,700 their fire be extinguished. Now, when we hear this language 447 00:24:43,700 --> 00:24:48,200 of worms and fires, you might wonder is Jesus teaching that 448 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,100 for the hell literally has flames and it has worms, you 449 00:24:52,100 --> 00:24:54,700 could go either way with this. I think you can make a strong 450 00:24:54,700 --> 00:24:57,700 case that Jesus is using somewhat metaphorical language 451 00:24:57,700 --> 00:25:00,900 that Jesus is adopting. So he's not intending to teach 452 00:25:00,900 --> 00:25:04,200 that how literally has flames, but he thinks it's a very good 453 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:05,600 image for what Eternal punishment. 454 00:25:05,700 --> 00:25:09,100 Judgment is like now it could well be that he'll has flames 455 00:25:09,100 --> 00:25:11,300 and there's no official Catholic teaching on this. 456 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,800 But certainly, it could be true. That Jesus is adopting. 457 00:25:15,100 --> 00:25:17,800 Some of the Jewish ways of speaking about how long his own 458 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,300 day wear and particularly with the valley of gehenna which was 459 00:25:21,300 --> 00:25:25,000 depicted as a good way of thinking, about a good image of 460 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:29,500 what Eternal punishment would be like, verse 45, Jesus continues. 461 00:25:29,700 --> 00:25:32,700 And if your foot should cause you to sin, cut it off, it is 462 00:25:32,700 --> 00:25:34,700 better for you to enter into life, lame. 463 00:25:34,900 --> 00:25:37,100 Then to have to Feet and be thrown into hell. 464 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,700 So Jesus says, if your hand causes you to sin cut it off. 465 00:25:40,700 --> 00:25:42,800 If your foot causes you to sin cut it off. 466 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:47,200 So apparently feet can cause people to sin and then in verse 467 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,200 46, which is not in our manuscript. 468 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,100 But again some manuscripts have verse 46 where their worm does 469 00:25:53,100 --> 00:25:57,300 not die nor their fire go out. Then we get to verse 47 and if 470 00:25:57,300 --> 00:26:00,200 you're I should cause you to sin tear it out. 471 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,900 It is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God, with 472 00:26:02,900 --> 00:26:05,500 one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown. 473 00:26:05,700 --> 00:26:08,800 Into hell. So, same teaching here about 474 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,900 eyes and in Matthew's gospel, this is used in the context of 475 00:26:11,900 --> 00:26:16,300 adultery, Matthew 5 verse 30. Jesus is straight after he's 476 00:26:16,300 --> 00:26:19,700 been talking about adultery. He says this about the I so 477 00:26:20,100 --> 00:26:22,800 maybe it was supposed to be an image of lust in particular 478 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,600 Interesting that Jesus here, doesn't just say end up in hell. 479 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,700 He says that otherwise you'll be thrown into hell, that's an 480 00:26:30,700 --> 00:26:34,300 active word and that would imply that God is the one that sends 481 00:26:34,300 --> 00:26:36,200 him to Hell. They'll be thrown into hell. 482 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,700 That's certainly one way of interpreting. 483 00:26:37,700 --> 00:26:42,100 Jesus words here. Jesus now says in verse 48, to 484 00:26:42,100 --> 00:26:46,000 finish this section where their worm does not die nor their fire 485 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,200 go out. Now this idea of a hand or a 486 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,600 foot being cut off for the sake of eternal life. 487 00:26:52,700 --> 00:26:55,600 Actually brings Find a real incident that did happen in the 488 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,300 Old Testament. So in second Maccabees chapter 489 00:26:58,300 --> 00:27:03,200 7, there's this graphic incident where the heroic mother and 490 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:09,200 seven, sons endure torture, and dismemberment rather than 491 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,400 disobey God's law, they're actually willing to give up 492 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,900 their body parts rather than turn against God and His law. 493 00:27:14,900 --> 00:27:18,600 So it's actually perhaps a story that many of Jesus here is would 494 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,300 have been familiar with. They would have immediately 495 00:27:20,300 --> 00:27:23,000 thought of second Maccabees seven where the people were 496 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,200 willing to give up. Our body parts rather than 497 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,700 endure God's Wrath because they turned away from him. 498 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,900 Interesting, isn't it? Now there's a little more to 499 00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:32,700 this speech. Jesus has a couple more things 500 00:27:32,700 --> 00:27:36,400 to say here before Mark chapter 9 finishes and it can hear the 501 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,600 rest of that speech in Thursday of week. 7. 502 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,600 In ordinary time. Let's finish today with one 503 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,300 quick. Catechism reference paragraph 504 00:27:45,300 --> 00:27:48,000 1034. This is in the Catholic. 505 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,000 Church's teaching about hell, Jesus often speaks of gehenna of 506 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,500 the unquenchable fire. Reserved for those who to the 507 00:27:55,500 --> 00:27:59,100 end of their lives, refuse to believe, and be converted, were 508 00:27:59,100 --> 00:28:03,400 both soul, and body can be lost. Jesus, solemnly, proclaims that 509 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,200 he will send his angels and they will gather all evildoers and 510 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,000 throw them into the furnace of fire. 511 00:28:09,700 --> 00:28:12,900 And that he will pronounce the condemnation depart from me, you 512 00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:17,500 cursed into the Eternal fire. So strong words, you from Jesus, 513 00:28:17,500 --> 00:28:20,200 and they're not easy to hear, but it certainly is part of 514 00:28:20,208 --> 00:28:22,400 Jesus teaching that hell is a real place. 515 00:28:22,700 --> 00:28:25,700 And there are sins We can commit the can and they can result in 516 00:28:25,700 --> 00:28:30,100 us being sent there. So it's been a longer episode 517 00:28:30,100 --> 00:28:31,200 today. I hope you've enjoyed it. 518 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,500 If you have, please share this with other people and we're 519 00:28:34,500 --> 00:28:36,200 going to continue in the coming days.