Hi everyone. Welcome back again to The
Logical Bible study podcast. Today we have quite a long
reading so we're going to get straight into it.
This is the reading you would hear at today's mass so it's the
Gospel reading and then we're going to go through it verse by
verse to see if we can understand what it means.
And there's a whole lot of really interesting stuff.
Smart. And so, Mark chapter 9 verses 38
to 43 Verse 45 and verses 47 to 48.
John said to Jesus Master. We saw a man who is not one of
us, casting out devils in your name.
And because he was not one of us, we try to stop him.
But Jesus said, you must not stop him.
No one who works a miracle in. My name is likely to speak, evil
of me. Anyone who is not against us, is
for us. If anyone gives you a cup of
water to drink just because you belong to Christ, then I tell
you solemnly he will most certainly not lose his reward.
But anyone who is an obstacle to bring down one of these little
ones who have faith would be better thrown into the sea with
a great millstone around his neck.
And if your hand should cause you to sin, cut it off, it is
better for you to enter into life crippled than to have two
hands and go to hell into the fire.
That cannot be put out and if your foot should cause you to
sin, cut it off, it is better for you to enter into life lame
than to have Fate and be thrown into hell.
And if you're I should cause you to sin, tear it out, it is
better for you to enter into the kingdom of God, with one eye
than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell.
Where their worm does not die nor their fire go out.
So that's a reading today from Mark.
And what's interesting about this is we have a whole lot of
interesting teachings in and of themselves that have been put
together here by Mark. And Matthew includes basically
all of these same teachings, but he puts him in different places.
So it's not entirely clear. If Jesus said all of these
things on the same occasion or whether markers, rearranged them
to make an overall point here. So there's quite a few different
bits to analyze you. What's the context?
So Jesus is moving through Galilee.
With his disciples and they've reached capernum this particular
scene. If you followed what happened
earlier in Mark chapter 9, this scene takes place in Jesus own
house, in Capernaum. This is a private briefing, with
his disciples. So they're in Jesus house in
Capernaum and they've been arguing about, who is the
greatest and at that point, Jesus said a child in front of
them and said anyone who welcomes one of these little
children in my name, welcomes me and anyone who Seems me
welcomes, not me, but the one who sent me so that conversation
is just happened. And now we get to verse 38, John
said to Jesus. So this is the Apostle, John,
the sons of Zebedee, the author of The Gospel of John, he says,
master or teacher. We saw a man who is not one of
us. Now, the apostles must have seen
this man earlier. When Jesus wasn't around, this
must have been at some point when Jesus didn't see it happen.
But John goes on, he says we saw a man who is not one of us as in
not one of our group, one of our disciples group, casting out
devils in your name. So, this is an interesting
situation, there's a man doing exorcisms in Jesus name and it
wasn't uncommon in that time for Jews to do exorcisms.
Certainly some Jews were able to do X's exorcisms but doing them
in Jesus name was new, usually they will do it in God's name.
Apparently some people in Including this man were inspired
by Jesus ministry and they genuinely had faith in Jesus,
so, they started doing exorcism using Jesus genuine power and
using his name, and these appear to be genuine Believers.
People, who actually do believe in Jesus and who are now doing
exorcisms in his name? The problem of course is that
they're not officially approved, it's not a recognized Apostle
and it's not someone that the apostles have officially
Commander to do this or commission to do this.
So he's not Officially approved but he is still doing it
effectively. Now, interestingly you Scholars
point out here that this links to the previous episode when
Jesus was talking about anyone who receives one of these little
ones. In my name, verse 37 will here
again, we have the mention of Jesus name, someone's doing
exorcisms in Jesus name, So, John goes on.
He was casting out devils in your name and because he was not
one of us or more literally, because he was not following us.
We tried to stop him or what it actually says there is.
We forbade him. So, the apostles went up to him,
when they saw him doing this and said, you're not a follower of
us. We forbid you from doing this.
The apostles use their Apostolic power to forbid him from doing
exorcisms. This is reminiscent of Joshua in
the Old Testament, trying to stop Men who were prophesying
but who weren't officially approved to be Prophets.
You said that in Numbers Chapter 11, it's a very similar
situation because there it appears, they were doing genuine
prophecies. Even though they weren't
officially approved profits. Similar situation may be the
apostles here are jealous because they themselves are
struggling to cast out demons. So earlier in this same chapter
in verse 18, we learned that the apostles themselves are
struggling to cast out certain kinds of demons.
Notice though, the apostles do have legitimate authority to
forbid, people to do this. They as Apostles that seems are
allowed to forbid people, from exercising, this ministry, they
have the power to stop people from doing this.
Jesus doesn't deny that they have the power to forbade people
from doing stuff. But what he does say to them is
you must not stop him or more literally do not forbid him.
So, like in the Joshua situation, Moses corrects Joshua
in 11:29 and Moses says to Joshua, you must let these must
let these prophets continue. Well, here Jesus says to his
disciples and particularly to John do not forbid him.
He corrects John's John's jealousy and tells John not to
prevent people from doing exorcisms in his name.
Jesus goes on no one who works a miracle in my name is likely to
speak evil of me. Or what it actually says.
There is no one. Who does a mighty work in my
name will be able soon after to speak evil of me.
So apparently Jesus point is that those who are able to
perform Mighty Works in his name, which apparently some
people could do, they will soon realize that he has genuine
power and they're likely to become Jesus followers anyway.
So he's saying that look, if anyone is using my name, even if
they're not officially approved, they're going to start realizing
that me. Echoes In My Name work and as a
result they're going to put their faith in me and become a,
genuine follower of me. So Jesus says that all things
considered they're going to become followers of me.
Anyway. In fact, Jesus will later say
that those who believe in him will be able to drive out demons
in his name. He says that in Mark 16:17.
So, Jesus anticipates that people will have this power when
they use his name. And then Jesus, says, anyone who
is not against us is for us. Now, this can mean different
things and in the context of Jesus ministry, he's saying,
that anyone who is doing things in the name of Jesus, and the
kingdom is on the same side as the apostles.
So perhaps, what this man is doing is not entirely
appropriate, we can probably say that this man shouldn't really
be doing it because he's not commissioned.
So it's not entirely appropriate, but given the short
time that Jesus is on Earth, he wants his name to spread as far
as possible. So he's willing to allow But
this is kind of similar to what Jesus says about fasting when he
says while I'm on Earth it's not appropriate for my followers to
fast but when I'm gone then they'll fast.
So this might be one of these cases where Jesus says look it's
not ideal but given that I'm only here for a short time.
It's okay for this to happen while I'm on Earth and doing
this ministry. So Jesus here might be directing
the disciples to take a stance of openness towards those who
are not in the formal bounds of the church.
He's telling them not to consider them furrows, possibly
Keep in mind though that Matthew chapter 12 verse 31, it reports
this saying also adds the converse and Matthew. 12 verse
30 says, whoever is not with me is against me although that's
not here in marks version. So there's a lot to consider
here in terms of what Jesus might be trying to tell the
apostles verse 41, Jesus changes.
His thought here slightly, if anyone gives you a cup of water
to drink just because you belong to Christ, what it actually
says. There is because you bear the
Name of Christ. There's that theme of name of
Christ again. So, Jesus, here is saying that
anyone who even helps a disciple of Jesus is on Jesus side.
Anyone who even helps a disciple of Jesus, is on his side though
don't have to perform Mighty Works in Jesus name.
Anyone who even gives him so much as a cup of cold water,
which of course, will be very useful in that Society.
Because if the apostles are going around preaching, in the
hot weather, a cup of cold water, will we actually are very
much needed by the apostles. So Jesus says Anyone who gives
you even so much. As a cold cup of water is on
Jesus side and the side of the Kingdom.
Jesus, here is saying that the apostles mission in preaching,
the kingdom of God is so important that anyone who
cooperates with it. Even in a small way like giving
the Christian a cup of water will be rewarded.
This is actually the same basic teaching as the parable of the
sheep and the goats where Jesus says, people will be rewarded
based on how they treat Christians as a similar kind of
thing here. Jesus is trying to communicate
to them. That look, even if they're not
officially approved, you're going to meet many people who
are going to Help you and God will approve of them because
they're helping the Our Kingdom work.
Jesus says, then I tell you solemnly he will most certainly
not lose his reward. So anyone who helps the apostles
and the kingdom is approved by God and he will not lose his
reward. Interesting phrasing.
Isn't it? This verse implies that it's
possible for someone in the Kingdom to lose the rewards.
If he's saying they will not lose their reward that would
seem to imply that some people could lose their rewards.
What does it? I mean, by reward, and you could
interpret this different ways, probably hear.
It means something like degrees of Glory, in heaven.
The teaching of Jesus, is that people can be in the kingdom.
And in the next life, they can be in the Kingdom with God, but
they can lose their reward, which kind of means they can
lose their degree of Glory in heaven.
This is an interesting teaching, but it is actually part of
Catholic teaching, as well. We move on to a different
section now, and this next section appears in different
contexts in both Matthew. So it's in Matthew chapter 18,
where Jesus gives his kind of sermon about disciples and also
in Luke chapter 17. So it's in different contexts
there, for this reason, some Scholars think that maybe Mark
here has inserted these words. In this spot even though they
didn't occur on this occasion, maybe Mark is trying to make it
seem like Jesus said this straight, after his teaching
about being broad-minded, perhaps this is just a theory
but maybe Mark wants his readers to not.
He wants to ensure that his readers don't take away the
wrong message. From what he's just said about
being open-minded to people. Maybe Mark is saying there's a
place for being open, but he also wants to remind them, that
Jesus teaches that sin is a serious matter.
Openness yes to an extent but not so open that we allow sin.
In other words, if God graciously rewards little acts
of kindness, on the other hand, he's going to severely punish
acts of evil especially as will see acts that involve Scandal
verse 42. Jesus says to the disciples,
anyone who is an obstacle to bring down.
Now, this is an interesting phrase here, this can be
translated different ways. It can be translated whoever
causes one of Of these little ones who believe in me to sin,
or you can even translate this stumble.
The Greek word here is scandalize 0, which means to
bring someone to ruin interesting scandalize.
Oh to bring someone to ruin most translations here, understand,
Jesus here to be talking about Temptations to sin Jesus.
Here says anyone who brings temptation to sin to others and
that of course, is what we would call the sin of Scandal.
So here we have one of the key passages about the sin of
Scandal And indeed, it comes from the Greek word here
scandalize. Oh, anyone who causes one of
these little ones who believe in me to sin.
Now, who are these little ones? What it actually says here, in
marks version is one of these little ones who have faith or
one of these little ones who believe in me, who is that, who
are the little ones? There's two different ways of
interpreting this. It could refer to children as in
biological children and remember in this very same scene, just
before this Jesus said a child in In front of him.
So maybe he is talking about children, but it could also mean
new disciples in general. So new people who are new in the
faith and that would also fit with what Jesus has just said
about spreading the kingdom and about how people are going to
join them in spreading the kingdom.
It seems when we put this together with the contexts, when
Jesus says this, in the other gospels that looks like Jesus is
talking about young disciples or those who are new Believers, not
biological children. So it's best to understand.
These words as Jesus talking about those who are weak or
vulnerable in the faith and that would probably include young
children. But basically anyone who's a new
believer, Jesus says, anyone who causes one of these little ones
who believe in me to sin, it would be better thrown into the
sea with a great millstone around his neck or another
translation. Here is it will be better for
him if a great Millstone were hung around his neck and he were
thrown into the sea. Pretty strong words here from
Jesus firstly, what's a millstone?
A millstone is, a very heavy Stone.
It's often called a donkey Millstone.
It's a heavy donut shaped stone that it was.
It was so heavy. It could actually only be turned
by a donkey humans. Couldn't turn this but donkeys
could so if a person was to have this hung around their neck they
would quickly. Drown Jesus here is giving us an
image of a quick death, but a horrible death.
It's a severe punishment in the Old Testament, it's reserved for
God's enemies in the Old Testament, if you think of
Exodus Teen pharaoh and his army drown Nehemiah 11 talks about
God's enemies drowning Zechariah 9 and then even in Revelation 18
verse 21, it talks about God's enemies drowning.
Now, when Jesus he says it will be better for him to be thrown
into the sea with a great millstone around his neck.
It probably is a hyperbole Jesus is probably exaggerating to make
a point, but certainly his emphasizing the seriousness of
leading those who are weak in faith into sin, this is a
warning to his Disciples. Jesus is saying that have a
particular responsibility to ensure that they model the faith
well and don't lead others into sin by their words and actions.
He's saying this is serious make sure you are not a temptation of
sin to others. So what then does it mean for
Jesus to say it will be better for him to be thrown into the
sea. Why would it be better for him
to be thrown into the sea? There's two main interpretations
here maybe Jesus is teaching that it will be better if the
person was dead. And therefore not able to lead
others into scandal in the first place, or maybe Jesus is
emphasizing the punishment that will come.
If a person does lead someone young into sin, Jesus is saying
that, if you lead someone into sin, you are going to have a
very serious punishment ahead of you.
And in that sense, it will be better for you to drown to have
that punishment, compared to the Eternal punishment that will
result otherwise. So there's a couple of different
ways of looking at this. Jesus is now going to talk about
taking drastic measures to avoid sin and indeed, he's going to
talk about the consequences of what happens if you do commit, a
mortal sin. If you're not careful to guard
yourself against sin, this actually matches.
What Jesus said earlier about, forfeiting one's life, Jesus
says, what does it gain a man to have the whole world, but to
Forfeit one's life, and there he's talking about forfeiting
eternal life. So Jesus teaching all the way
through is that through your actions.
Your choices, you can forfeit eternal life and we're going to
see that here. Now, in the context of what
Jesus has just said, Jesus is probably thinking, particularly
of Scandal. He's in his thinking,
particularly of ensuring that the apostles minimize their
opportunity to cause others to sin.
Verse 43. Jesus says, if your hand causes
you to sin and in the Greek here, it says, if your hand
causes you to scandalize. Oh, cut it off.
Now, this is very famous. Phrase of Jesus, isn't it?
This is accepted by pretty much all Scholars.
As a hyperbole Jesus is not saying, literally cut off your
hand, if it makes it prone to sin, it seems that Jesus is
exaggerating to make a point. This was a common Jewish way of
teaching at the time, they would sort of shoot over the mark, in
order to make the Wait a similar.
Hyperbole is when Jesus says in The Sermon on the Mount, do not.
Let your left hand, know what your right hand is doing now.
That's physically impossible. So here we have a similar
teaching, it's a hyperbole an exaggeration, but he's still
making a very serious Point his calling for the crowd, for the
disciples to take drastic action to stop sin at its root, and
that's primarily the will. This is a teaching about cutting
sin off at the root, which is the human will.
Geez. This is telling his disciples,
that they must do everything they can, to avoid the near
occasion of sin, and they need to be willing to take ruthless
drastic action against their sinful drives so that they can
enter eternal life. If they don't control their sin,
and if they do fall into mortal sin because they didn't keep a
guard on their will, they could forfeit eternal life.
That's the teaching here. His warning, his disciples Jesus
says, it is better for you to enter into life crippled than to
have Hands. And go to hell and the Greek.
Wait here for Hailey's Gahanna, we need to talk a bit about this
word. Gehenna, oh, comes up a bit in
the gospels. Whenever Jesus talks about
Gannett gehenna. He's referring to what we would
Now call hell. Jesus listeners would have
shuddered At The Mention of the word.
Gehenna in Hebrew, Gahanna means the Valley of the son of hinnom,
and this is a real place in Israel.
So it's a Steep Ravine, South of West of Jerusalem, and it shows
up a couple of times in the Old Testament.
Firstly, idolatrous Israelites
had sacrificed their own children to the Pagan.
God, Molech in Jeremiah 7 and 19, at talks about the valley of
hinnom being where they sacrifice to the Pagan.
God, Molech. And then later under the reforms
of King Josiah, this same vial site was desecrated, so the
righteous King took a back in Second Kings, 23.
But later, it became a garbage dump.
Full of maggot, ridden carcasses and burning refuse.
So late in the Old Testament, the valley of gehenna was
actually a garbage dump. It constantly had burning refuse
and there was actually maggots in there.
So the valley of hinnom gehenna was a place that most of Jesus
readers would have been too and they would have actually seen
this smoldering pile of rubbish. So Jesus uses it as an image of
Hell in Jewish extra biblical literature.
So some of the stuff that was written between the Old
Testament and New Testament, Estimate gehenna.
So in the Years, leading up to Jesus, gehenna became an image
of the future punishment of the Damned.
So if you look at the Book of Enoch 1, Enoch, particularly it
talks there about how he'll the future Eternal punishment is in
a way like, your henna. So, Jesus is not the first one
to say that to call Hal Gahanna. That was a common way of
describing. How at that time, many people
don't realize this, when Jesus calls hell gehenna, they would
have known exactly what, What he was talking about this Burning
Peter rubbish, Jesus uses it. In the sense of this is what
eternal life will be like, so Jesus.
He says, if your hand causes you to sin cut it off, it's better
to enter into eternal life maimed than to go to get Hannah,
Jesus here. Teaches that, although dealing
with sinful thoughts in this way, might be painful and
difficult, it's far better than ending up in hell and Jesus
here. Teachers that hands, if you
think about it, he says This can be involved in mortal sin,
particularly if it causes Scandal, Jesus is thinking
particularly of Scandal, the clear teaching here is it's
possible to do things with your hands that can land.
You in hell, it's possible to commit a mortal sin if you're
not careful and think about it. Jesus teaching here depending on
how literally we take the metaphor, Jesus does seem to be
teaching that he'll will be in some sense.
A physical bodily experience is saying you'll be tormented in
hell The teaching of the Catholic church is that everyone
will have a body in the afterlife, even those in hell
will have a body. So, Jesus metaphor about hands
and soon about eyes and feet. It's quite graphic when he says
pluck out your eye cut off your hand, but it's actually quite
well matched because Jesus is saying that look in eternal
life, you are going to have body parts.
So if your body parts cause you a problem in this life, you need
to do something about it. So, the physicality here is
somewhat deliberate on Jesus part because eternal life is
quite Cool. So there's a lot going on in
this passage and a lot of this could have its own separate
episode or a whole sermon given on individual lines of this
teaching here. So, Jesus goes on, he says it
will be better for you to enter into life crippled than to have
two hands and go to hell. And then he says that is the
fire that cannot be put out or more.
Literally, the unquenchable fire.
Jesus says, that's a good image of Hell.
Unquenchable Fire kind of like the valley of gehenna was in
their own day. Now you might Have wondered when
we first started this reading today.
Why is it skip a few verses? So today we're looking at verses
38 to 43 and then 45 and then verses 47 and 248.
So why don't we read verse 44 and verse 46?
It's because most manuscripts don't have it.
They don't have verse 44, but some manuscripts.
Do. So some manuscripts have verse
44. It's actually a double up of
later verse 48. So verse 44 says this into the
fire, that cannot be put in Where their worm does not die
nor their fire go out. So this phrase here about where
their worm does not die nor their fire go out.
It's the same as verse 48. So nothing is lost here, even if
we say it wasn't in the original manuscripts, it is certainly
verse. 48 was certainly in the original manuscripts.
What is Jesus mean here when he says where their worm does not
die, nor their fire goes out. It seems to Echo a description
of Eternal punishment in the book of Isaiah.
So Isaiah describes the fate of God's enemies this way.
Their worm shall not die nor their fire be extinguished and
they shall be abhorrent to all mankind.
That's in Isaiah 66 verse 24. Now in the time of why Zaire
they hadn't fully worked out this idea of Eternal punishment.
So probably when Isaiah is speaking, he's thinking of
temporal Earthly punishment that God will inflict on his enemies.
But Jesus sees in here and perhaps when I was I was giving
this, it was a prophecy. That it's a good image of
Eternal punishment. Their worm shall not die nor
their fire be extinguished. Now, when we hear this language
of worms and fires, you might wonder is Jesus teaching that
for the hell literally has flames and it has worms, you
could go either way with this. I think you can make a strong
case that Jesus is using somewhat metaphorical language
that Jesus is adopting. So he's not intending to teach
that how literally has flames, but he thinks it's a very good
image for what Eternal punishment.
Judgment is like now it could well be that he'll has flames
and there's no official Catholic teaching on this.
But certainly, it could be true. That Jesus is adopting.
Some of the Jewish ways of speaking about how long his own
day wear and particularly with the valley of gehenna which was
depicted as a good way of thinking, about a good image of
what Eternal punishment would be like, verse 45, Jesus continues.
And if your foot should cause you to sin, cut it off, it is
better for you to enter into life, lame.
Then to have to Feet and be thrown into hell.
So Jesus says, if your hand causes you to sin cut it off.
If your foot causes you to sin cut it off.
So apparently feet can cause people to sin and then in verse
46, which is not in our manuscript.
But again some manuscripts have verse 46 where their worm does
not die nor their fire go out. Then we get to verse 47 and if
you're I should cause you to sin tear it out.
It is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God, with
one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown.
Into hell. So, same teaching here about
eyes and in Matthew's gospel, this is used in the context of
adultery, Matthew 5 verse 30. Jesus is straight after he's
been talking about adultery. He says this about the I so
maybe it was supposed to be an image of lust in particular
Interesting that Jesus here, doesn't just say end up in hell.
He says that otherwise you'll be thrown into hell, that's an
active word and that would imply that God is the one that sends
him to Hell. They'll be thrown into hell.
That's certainly one way of interpreting.
Jesus words here. Jesus now says in verse 48, to
finish this section where their worm does not die nor their fire
go out. Now this idea of a hand or a
foot being cut off for the sake of eternal life.
Actually brings Find a real incident that did happen in the
Old Testament. So in second Maccabees chapter
7, there's this graphic incident where the heroic mother and
seven, sons endure torture, and dismemberment rather than
disobey God's law, they're actually willing to give up
their body parts rather than turn against God and His law.
So it's actually perhaps a story that many of Jesus here is would
have been familiar with. They would have immediately
thought of second Maccabees seven where the people were
willing to give up. Our body parts rather than
endure God's Wrath because they turned away from him.
Interesting, isn't it? Now there's a little more to
this speech. Jesus has a couple more things
to say here before Mark chapter 9 finishes and it can hear the
rest of that speech in Thursday of week. 7.
In ordinary time. Let's finish today with one
quick. Catechism reference paragraph
1034. This is in the Catholic.
Church's teaching about hell, Jesus often speaks of gehenna of
the unquenchable fire. Reserved for those who to the
end of their lives, refuse to believe, and be converted, were
both soul, and body can be lost. Jesus, solemnly, proclaims that
he will send his angels and they will gather all evildoers and
throw them into the furnace of fire.
And that he will pronounce the condemnation depart from me, you
cursed into the Eternal fire. So strong words, you from Jesus,
and they're not easy to hear, but it certainly is part of
Jesus teaching that hell is a real place.
And there are sins We can commit the can and they can result in
us being sent there. So it's been a longer episode
today. I hope you've enjoyed it.
If you have, please share this with other people and we're
going to continue in the coming days.