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Hi everyone. 
Welcome back to the Daily gospel

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exegesis podcast where we look 
at the Gospel reading for 

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today's mass and we help you 
understand. 

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Maybe what the original author 
was trying to communicate to the

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original audience. 
So, looking really at the 

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literal sense of the text today,
we've got a really Really 

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interesting reading and I think 
you're quite enjoy diving into 

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this one because there's a lot 
going on here that has 

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implications for us as 
Catholics. 

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So we're looking here at John 
chapter 3 verses 1 to 8, there 

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was one of the Pharisees called 
Nicodemus of leading Jew who 

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came to Jesus by night and said 
Rabbi, we know that you are a 

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teacher who comes from God for 
no one could perform the signs 

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that you do. 
Unless God will with him, Jesus 

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answered, I tell you most 
solemnly unless a man is born 

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from above, he cannot see the 
kingdom of God. 

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Nicodemus said, how can a grown 
man be born? 

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Can he go back into his mother's
womb and be born again? 

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Jesus replied. 
I tell you, most solemnly, 

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unless a man is born through 
water and the spirit, he cannot 

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enter the kingdom of God. 
What is born of the flesh is 

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flesh. 
And what is born of. 

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The spirit is Spirit, do not be 
surprised. 

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When I say you must be born from
above, the wind blows wherever 

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it, pleases, you hear it sound, 
but you cannot tell where it 

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comes from, or where it is 
going. 

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That is how it is with all who 
are born of the spirit. 

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So the context here is were 
early in the Gospel of John and 

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Jesus has been doing some early 
Ministry in Jerusalem. 

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Not necessarily sure when this 
occurred in Jesus life because 

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John probably isn't writing 
everything strictly 

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chronologically here in these 
early chapters verse 1. 

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There was one of the Pharisees. 
So Pharisees are the Jewish 

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leaders of the popular, the 
popular Jewish people. 

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The Pharisees job was to study 
the law and they did their best 

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to communicate the meaning of 
the law to the people. 

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Many of them were quite corrupt 
and selfish as we often hear in 

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the gospels, but not all of 
them. 

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So, in particular, Nicodemus, 
here is an example of one who is

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apparently genuinely seeking 
God. 

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So, his name is Nicodemus, and 
he's a leading Jews. 

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So that means his from a 
prominent wealthy family. 

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It would also appear from the 
gospel of Mark, although it's 

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not 100% sure that he's part of 
the Sanhedrin. 

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The council that condemns Jesus 
to death. 

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So he's part of the council that
has legislative power over all 

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of Israel. 
So he's right at the top of the 

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Jewish chain, here he comes to 
Jesus by night. 

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Why does he come by night? 
Well, depending on what night 

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means because night can just 
means Sundown, but if he is 

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coming late at night, he doesn't
want others to see him meeting 

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Jesus, because he's a Pharisee 
and officially the Pharisees 

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don't accept Jesus. 
So, he sort of has to hide a 

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bit. 
Some have also suggested that by

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night said, means that his 
walking in darkness, some sort 

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of spiritual darkness and John 
often talks about light and dark

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in his gospel. 
So he says to Jesus Rabbi. 

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We know that you are a teacher 
who comes from God for no one. 

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Could perform the signs that you
do unless God were with him. 

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Nicodemus is spot on his right. 
The reason Jesus can do these. 

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Things is because God is with 
him. 

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Most of the other Pharisees 
wouldn't agree with Nicodemus 

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about that. 
But Nicodemus has correctly 

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perceived that only God could 
give the man any man have the 

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power to do what Jesus does. 
And that's one of the points 

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that Jesus is consistently. 
Making in the Gospel of John, he

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says, believe me because of my 
works and that's exactly what 

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Nicodemus does. 
So we see here that Nicodemus is

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genuinely interested in what 
Jesus has to say. 

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He's a Pharisee who seeking 
God's truth. 

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Notice he says we we know that 
you are a teacher while he's not

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speaking on behalf of the 
Pharisees so that suggests that 

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there might be some disciples 
with him. 

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He's brought along some people 
which would make sense because 

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he's a rich ruler. 
So he probably does have 

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disciples and together they as a
group Nicodemus, and his 

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followers believed that Jesus is
from God. 

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Jesus is about to say some 
really interesting things is 

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about to give quite a lofty 
teaching. 

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That is deep and multifaceted. 
As he often does in the Gospel 

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of John and the main focus here.
And the reason he says this to 

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Nicodemus is because Nicodemus, 
as Jesus perceives is still 

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thinking in Earthly terms, and 
Jesus wants him to raise his 

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thinking to spiritual things. 
So he's going to try and 

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introduce some new spiritual 
Concepts that Nicodemus hasn't 

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considered yet. 
So verse 3. 

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Jesus says, I tell you most 
solemnly, or as other 

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translations have it truly, 
truly, I say unto you. 

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As we often say, in this 
podcast, that means Jesus is 

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about to say something pretty 
important. 

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And he says this to him unless a
man is born from above, he 

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cannot see the kingdom of God. 
So firstly, why mention the 

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kingdom of God here? 
Apparently, Jesus perceives, 

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that Nicodemus is searching for 
the kingdom of God. 

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He's trying to understand Jesus 
and his work and so Jesus. 

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He tells him because he's just 
tried to sort of say, to Jesus. 

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We know that you're a teacher 
who comes from God, but Jesus, 

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or to perceives that actually, 
he's not quite there yet. 

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So he tells them what the 
prerequisite is for getting into

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the kingdom and it is to be born
from above. 

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This audio of the kingdom of God
isn't talked about a lot in 

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John, but it is pretty prominent
in the synoptics and it's 

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basically where God's will is 
done and Nicodemus wants to be a

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part of that. 
Jesus is telling him what he has

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to do to be a part of that. 
The main issue here is and 

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there's this big 
misunderstanding that Nicodemus 

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is about to bring up, and we 
need to understand why it is, 

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and there's some translation 
difficulties here as well. 

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When Jesus says, unless a man is
born from above the Greek here 

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that he uses can be translated 
legitimately in one of two 

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different ways in that culture, 
it could mean one of two 

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different things. 
So it could either mean born 

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from above which is what our 
translation has, but it could 

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also be translated born again. 
And so, you'll often hear other 

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Christians talk about having a 
born-again experience and they 

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take it from this verse because 
the Greek, their can actually 

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mean born from above or born 
again. 

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This is the Or of the 
misunderstanding. 

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Now, here's the thing. 
Nicodemus seems to think when he

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hears Jesus speak these words, I
should say, sorry, it's Aramaic 

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when Jesus speaks Aramaic here. 
Nicodemus thinks that Jesus 

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means born again, that's the one
that Nicodemus goes through goes

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for where is it? 
Looks like when Jesus says these

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words, he means born from above.
So he's talking about birth with

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Heavenly Origins and we know 
that that's probably the 

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translation. 
Jesus was going for because 

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elsewhere in the Gospel of John.
It always is translated born 

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from above and it only makes 
sense in those contexts to say 

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born from above. 
So if you look at 3:31 and 

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19:11, you know, elsewhere in 
the Gospel of John where he says

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you are from below, I am from 
above. 

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So that's clearly the 
translation that Jesus is going 

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for and that's important because
it means that our lectionary 

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translation gets it right Born 
from above Love. 

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So when you hear Christians 
talking about, are you born 

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again? 
Well I think it's it's fair to 

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correct them and say actually a 
better translation of that is 

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born from above. 
So juicer we get our terminology

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right? 
Because that's the mistake that 

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Nicodemus made he thought that 
Jesus meant born again, but 

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that's not what Jesus meant, he 
meant born from above. 

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So Jesus is now going to make it
a bit clearer. 

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For what it means for a man to 
be born from above because 

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Nicodemus doesn't understand 
Nicodemus. 

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The first thing Nicodemus says 
is, how can a grown man be born?

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Can he go back into his mother's
womb and be born again? 

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And that's a fair question, 
because he thinks that Jesus has

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just said, you have to be born 
again. 

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And that's a bit of a strange 
phrase. 

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The Jews were not used to this 
idea of second births to them. 

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You are only born once and Jesus
would probably agree with that 

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because that's not what Jesus 
meant Jesus meant. 

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One from above. 
So Jesus now makes it clearer 

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verse 5. 
He says, I tell you most 

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solemnly, unless a man is born 
through water and the spirit, he

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cannot enter the kingdom of God.
So Jesus, he gives a 

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clarification, this is not a 
separate teaching, it's the same

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teaching as before. 
What this means is that the 

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phrase born from above is 
equivalent to being born through

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water and the spirit. 
So what'd whatever, born from 

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above means, it means the same 
thing as been born through 

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water, and the spirit, it's the 
same teaching, Jesus is giving 

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here. 
So here's the question. 

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What exactly does it mean? 
When Jesus says, You must be 

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born of water and the spirit 
Well firstly, we know that 

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whatever it is, it's a 
prerequisite to getting into the

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kingdom of God. 
Many Christians believe that 

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this is referring to two 
separate events. 

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So they see when Jesus says You 
must be born of water and the 

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spirit a lot of Christians, take
that to mean firstly you have to

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be born of water. 
So that's like a reference to 

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natural birth and the water 
there represents amniotic fluid 

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in your mother's womb and then 
the second time you have to be 

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born is when you're born of 
spirit. 

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So that's Like when you have a 
spiritual birth later in life. 

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So they see it as two separate 
births and in support of this. 

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So we need to talk about 
different ways. 

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This could be understood because
non-catholic Christians 

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typically understand it this 
way. 

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They think it's two different 
births that Jesus is talking 

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about. 
So the first thing that I would 

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say to support this is they 
would say that. 

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Well, if you look at what 
Nicodemus is just said about 

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natural birth, And he's trying 
to understand how someone can be

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born a second time. 
Well then this is the answer to 

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that. 
You can be born naturally and 

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then supernaturally. 
So that's one thing that they 

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would say in support of it and 
then secondly Jesus a couple of 

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verses later goes on to contrast
flesh birth with Spirit birth 

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and so that could be seen to be 
supporting this where there's 

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like these two births and in 
that case, flesh birth would be 

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the same as what Jesus calls 
water birth. 

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In this verse born of water is 
the same as born of Flesh. 

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So that's kind of the typical 
Evangelical Christian 

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understanding, there's some 
problems with this 

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interpretation. 
Station the biggest issue with 

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this interpretation is that 
they're making the same mistake 

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that Nicodemus appears to make 
here. 

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Remember Nicodemus thinks that 
Jesus is talking about two 

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different, births, two separate 
events, but it's really seems 

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like Jesus did not mean to say 
those two separate events. 

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He just mean to say that there's
one event, which he calls being 

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born from above. 
The second issue with this 

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interpretation of two separate 
births, is that being born of 

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water is not a phrase that's 
used at that time period to 

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represent natural birth from 
your mother. 

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That's a very strange phrase. 
Being born of water is not 

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something, the Jews would have 
understood to mean being born 

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from your mother. 
And also to make this 

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interpretation work, they have 
to say that water is equivalent 

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to flesh but all throughout John
water represents Supernatural 

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life. 
So it doesn't seem like we can 

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treat water as equivalent to 
fret to flesh. 

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Which is what you would have to 
do to make this interpretation 

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work. 
So the other interpretation of 

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this being born of water and 
spirit. 

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And this is the Catholic 
Church's understanding, is that 

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being born of water and spirit 
is a way of describing one 

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single event, which occurs at 
baptism. 

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So let's look at some ways that 
we can support this 

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interpretation and it was 
actually quite interesting for 

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me. 
Doing the research to see how 

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all the different facts dew 
point in this direction. 

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So firstly, the Jews were 
familiar with baptisms. 

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Jesus didn't introduce baptism, 
they already knew what a baptism

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was and they had their own 
ritual Washings. 

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They also understood that in 
some sense, some of these ritual

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Washings like the mikveh, 
rituals cleanse them from sin, 

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the Jews did believe that. 
So, maybe when Jesus says, born 

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of water automatically 
Nicodemus, and other Jewish 

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readers of John's gospel might 
have Associated being born of 

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water with a water ritual. 
That might have been a term that

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was familiar to them already 
because of their familiarity 

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00:13:18,500 --> 00:13:23,700
with the water rituals that they
already do, but that's 

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speculation. 
I think there's more stronger 

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00:13:25,500 --> 00:13:28,700
facts. 
We can rely on look at often 

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with exegesis one of the 
principles. 

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You want to think about is if 
you're not sure what a verse 

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00:13:32,700 --> 00:13:34,400
means. 
Look at the Your context. 

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So what happens just before and 
just after well what happens 

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00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,800
just after this conversation 
with Nicodemus you go to verse 

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00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,300
22 of chapter 3. 
The very next thing that happens

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is Jesus and his own Apostles 
begin to baptize that's 

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literally the very next thing 
they do. 

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So it seems like John has put 
this story before Jesus starts 

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doing baptisms because he wants 
his readers to understand the 

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significance of baptism. 
Next, all throughout John's 

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00:14:00,500 --> 00:14:02,300
gospel. 
If you study the Gospel of John 

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Jesus says That water is a 
metaphor for Supernatural life. 

250
00:14:06,900 --> 00:14:09,300
If you think about the things, 
he says to the woman at the well

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00:14:09,300 --> 00:14:12,600
where he says, I will give you 
water welling up to eternal 

252
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,600
life. 
And that also later in the 

253
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,000
gospel, he talks about streams 
of living water coming from your

254
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,700
soul. 
So Jesus uses water to talk 

255
00:14:21,700 --> 00:14:24,100
about supernatural life, not 
natural birth. 

256
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,300
Also, look at things John, the 
Baptist says so John the Baptist

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00:14:28,300 --> 00:14:32,100
earlier in the Gospel of John, 
and in the other gospels as 

258
00:14:32,100 --> 00:14:33,700
well. 
He says, I baptize you with 

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00:14:33,700 --> 00:14:36,900
water and the one who comes 
after me, will baptize with the 

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00:14:36,900 --> 00:14:40,600
Holy Spirit. 
Now, that could mean, John is 

261
00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,900
saying this. 
I baptize you with melee water, 

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00:14:44,300 --> 00:14:48,700
whereas the Messiah will do both
water and the spirit and if 

263
00:14:48,700 --> 00:14:50,800
that's the correct 
interpretation than that map's. 

264
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,400
Exactly onto what Jesus is 
talking about here, baptism of 

265
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:59,100
water and Spirit next. 
If you look at Ezekiel 26, 

266
00:14:59,100 --> 00:15:02,800
there's this interesting 
prophecy in Ezekiel about what 

267
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:07,000
the Messianic Messianic age is 
going to be like, this might 

268
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,700
have been at the background of 
Jesus mind when he said these 

269
00:15:10,700 --> 00:15:14,700
words and perhaps Nicodemus 
would have recognized, or he 

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00:15:14,708 --> 00:15:16,100
would have thought of this 
quotation. 

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00:15:16,100 --> 00:15:20,600
Ezekiel 26 says, and this is 
God, speaking, I will, sprinkle 

272
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,800
clean water upon you and you 
shall be clean from all your 

273
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,500
uncleanness has And from all 
your Idols, I will cleanse you a

274
00:15:27,508 --> 00:15:30,100
new heart. 
I will give you a new spirit. 

275
00:15:30,100 --> 00:15:33,400
I will put within you. 
I will take out your foot out of

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00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,700
your flesh, the Heart of Stone, 
and give you a new heart of 

277
00:15:36,700 --> 00:15:39,400
Flesh. 
And I will put my spirit within 

278
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,500
you and cause you to walk in my 
statutes and be careful to 

279
00:15:42,500 --> 00:15:45,800
observe my ordinances. 
So as Ezekiel says that in the 

280
00:15:45,808 --> 00:15:49,900
coming age, God is going to 
sprinkle people with water and 

281
00:15:49,900 --> 00:15:52,600
that in some sense is going to 
bring about a new spirit. 

282
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,700
So again there's this water and 
spirit Going together. 

283
00:15:57,700 --> 00:16:00,500
A lot of Christians also would 
consider blood and water to be 

284
00:16:00,500 --> 00:16:03,400
the signs of new life because 
they were what flowed from Jesus

285
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:07,100
side when he was pierced and as 
Catholics, we understand that 

286
00:16:07,100 --> 00:16:09,500
blood is a symbol of the 
Eucharist. 

287
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,600
So what is water is symbol of? 
Well, it's a symbol of the other

288
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,100
most important Sacrament. 
It's a symbol of baptism. 

289
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,800
Lastly, I think we can. 
Also look at later passages in 

290
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,200
the New Testament which says 
that water baptism does bring 

291
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:28,600
about salvation. 
So Acts 2:38 1, Peter 3:21 and 

292
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,200
Titus 3:5. 
They all talk about water 

293
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,800
bringing about new life. 
So there's a whole lot of things

294
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,500
that point towards, although 
Jesus doesn't clearly explained,

295
00:16:38,500 --> 00:16:42,200
it the facts do seem to support 
the interpretation that being 

296
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,900
born of water. 
And the spirit is a single event

297
00:16:44,900 --> 00:16:48,100
that occurs at baptism on I 
think of these reasons, the 

298
00:16:48,100 --> 00:16:53,600
strongest one is the way in 
which Jesus talks about water 

299
00:16:53,900 --> 00:16:56,500
elsewhere in the Gospel of John,
he talks about it in reference 

300
00:16:56,500 --> 00:16:59,300
to Supernatural life and I think
that that has to be our guiding 

301
00:16:59,300 --> 00:17:02,300
principle, it wouldn't make 
sense for Jesus to suddenly talk

302
00:17:02,300 --> 00:17:04,500
about water in terms of natural 
birth here. 

303
00:17:06,700 --> 00:17:09,800
So that's the mum apologetics 
for you and helping you 

304
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,099
understand the way that we might
be able to get to the right 

305
00:17:13,099 --> 00:17:16,599
interpretation when there's 
difficulties. 

306
00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:20,300
When there's it's not clear what
the right interpretation is now 

307
00:17:20,300 --> 00:17:24,400
on top of that as Catholics that
Catholic Church doesn't usually 

308
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,300
Define what specific Bible 
verses mean, it usually leaves 

309
00:17:27,300 --> 00:17:30,500
it up to individual Catholics to
judge for themselves. 

310
00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:34,000
But this is one passage where 
the church has defined. 

311
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,300
What the passage means at least 
the basics. 

312
00:17:36,500 --> 00:17:38,700
What it means. 
So what the Council of Trent in 

313
00:17:38,700 --> 00:17:42,900
1547 it was declared that John 
3:5. 

314
00:17:42,900 --> 00:17:46,200
Does refer to baptism. 
And water is not merely a 

315
00:17:46,208 --> 00:17:49,900
metaphor here but it's actually 
Jesus telling us the water is a 

316
00:17:49,900 --> 00:17:53,600
visible sign of the spirits 
invisible work in the sacrament 

317
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,400
of baptism. 
So for Catholics that's a 

318
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,800
non-negotiable. 
Jesus is talking about water, 

319
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,200
baptism here. 
To sum this up. 

320
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,900
If we think about what's Jesus 
trying to tell us about water 

321
00:18:04,900 --> 00:18:07,900
and the spirit Jesus is saying 
that through the water writer 

322
00:18:07,900 --> 00:18:10,500
baptism, the believer is 
supernaturally. 

323
00:18:10,500 --> 00:18:13,800
Joined to Jesus own death and 
resurrection and through that 

324
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:15,900
receives the indwelling of the 
Holy Spirit. 

325
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,800
As a result, the believer enters
the kingdom of God and is given 

326
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,000
a share in Jesus or in Divine 
life. 

327
00:18:22,700 --> 00:18:26,300
So in effect, what he's saying 
to Nicodemus, is, if you want to

328
00:18:26,300 --> 00:18:30,100
see the kingdom of God, you must
be baptized, you must be joined 

329
00:18:30,100 --> 00:18:33,300
to my own death and Resurrection
through a sacramental baptism, 

330
00:18:33,300 --> 00:18:35,400
and that's how you'll receive 
the Holy Spirit. 

331
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,500
Let's move on to verse 6 because
Jesus adds a little bit more. 

332
00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:43,600
He says, what is born of Flesh? 
So what is born of? 

333
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:45,800
The flesh is flesh. 
What is born of? 

334
00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:51,700
The spirit is Spirit. 
All throughout John if you keep 

335
00:18:51,700 --> 00:18:55,000
reading John flesh represents 
all that is natural and human. 

336
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:59,300
So flesh is bad in a sense. 
So Jesus Point here is that 

337
00:18:59,300 --> 00:19:02,100
natural things can only produce 
other Natural. 

338
00:19:02,100 --> 00:19:05,500
Things flesh can only produce 
flesh, whereas Supernatural, 

339
00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:07,700
things can produce, other 
Supernatural things. 

340
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:12,400
So Spirit born of the spirit and
Jesus is saying that, if you 

341
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,700
want to get in the kingdom of 
God, you can't rely on natural 

342
00:19:15,700 --> 00:19:17,100
things. 
You need to rely on 

343
00:19:17,300 --> 00:19:19,100
Supernatural. 
Virtual things. 

344
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:25,800
So Supernatural spirit is going 
to be involved in bringing about

345
00:19:26,100 --> 00:19:28,300
getting people into the kingdom 
of God, and that's think about 

346
00:19:28,300 --> 00:19:29,700
it. 
That's exactly what born from 

347
00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:33,400
above means to be born from 
above means, you are produced 

348
00:19:33,500 --> 00:19:37,900
with the help of God in heaven. 
So, Jesus is trying to teach 

349
00:19:37,900 --> 00:19:41,000
Nicodemus that eternal life, 
which is what Nicodemus is 

350
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:45,000
seeking is a supernatural thing.
It's a pure gift from God which 

351
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,100
totally exceeds all human effort
and natural abilities. 

352
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:53,100
He wants Nicodemus to grasp That
it's a supernatural process 

353
00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:56,400
verse 7. 
He's finishes by saying, do not 

354
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,400
be surprised. 
When I say to you you must be 

355
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,900
born from above. 
So, Jesus is now going to 

356
00:20:00,900 --> 00:20:03,800
explain why this teaching should
not be particularly surprising 

357
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,600
to Nicodemus. 
Versailles. 

358
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,100
Jesus says, the wind blows 
wherever it pleases you hear its

359
00:20:10,100 --> 00:20:13,400
sound, but you cannot tell where
it comes from or where it is 

360
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,600
going. 
So Jesus, you is talking about 

361
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:18,900
wind and the Jews. 
Of course, were familiar with 

362
00:20:18,900 --> 00:20:23,500
the wind Jesus point is, you can
hear the wind and you can feel 

363
00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:26,600
the wind, but in that culture, 
they didn't really understand 

364
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,500
how wind worked. 
So Jesus goes on and that is how

365
00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:32,600
it is with all who are born of 
the spirit. 

366
00:20:33,900 --> 00:20:35,700
Now, the Greek word here for 
wind is new. 

367
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,500
Numa in Greek and that's the 
same word as the word for 

368
00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:42,700
spirit. 
So Jesus basic Point here, is 

369
00:20:42,700 --> 00:20:46,400
that the same principles which 
apply to the wind also apply to 

370
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,100
the Holy Spirit. 
That's what he wants Nicodemus 

371
00:20:49,100 --> 00:20:52,100
to understand and this in 
particular, he's probably saying

372
00:20:52,100 --> 00:20:54,900
something like this. 
The Holy Spirit Works in 

373
00:20:54,900 --> 00:20:58,300
surprising ways and we shouldn't
expect to understand it just 

374
00:20:58,300 --> 00:21:02,100
like the wind still. 
We can see evidence that it is 

375
00:21:02,100 --> 00:21:04,700
indeed working. 
Just like we can see. 

376
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,600
The wind is working. 
Causing people to be born from 

377
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,100
above and bringing people into 
the kingdom of God. 

378
00:21:10,100 --> 00:21:13,400
We can see that happening. 
You shouldn't expect to fully 

379
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,000
understand it, just accept that 
it works. 

380
00:21:16,300 --> 00:21:19,100
He's basically saying that to 
Nicodemus don't expect to fully 

381
00:21:19,100 --> 00:21:21,000
understand it. 
It's a supernatural thing. 

382
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:26,200
Only know that it does happen. 
That's the end of our text for 

383
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,400
today, in the other conversation
with Nicodemus continues over 

384
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,400
the next few verses. 
And that's when he says for God.

385
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,700
So loved the world that he gave 
his only son and that's in the 

386
00:21:35,700 --> 00:21:37,900
very next part of the 
conversation with Nicodemus, 

387
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,800
that will be covered in your 
podcast tomorrow because that's 

388
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,200
where the lectionary picks up 
from tomorrow. 

389
00:21:44,100 --> 00:21:46,800
Just want to read about this. 
One quote that Justin Martyr 

390
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,700
around the year. 100 and 1000 ad
said about baptism. 

391
00:21:51,700 --> 00:21:54,700
And this is a very reasonably 
short time. 

392
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,600
The age of the Apostles, Justin 
Martyr says, at our birth, we 

393
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:02,000
were born with our own knowledge
or Choice by our parents coming 

394
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,400
together. 
We were brought up with bad 

395
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,100
habits and wicked training. 
However, so that we meant may 

396
00:22:08,100 --> 00:22:11,400
not Remain the children of 
necessity and of ignorance, but 

397
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,500
may become the children of 
choice and knowledge and may 

398
00:22:14,500 --> 00:22:17,800
obtain in the water. 
The remission of sins formally 

399
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,800
committed. 
There is pronounced over the one

400
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,500
who chooses to be born again and
has repented of his sins. 

401
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,600
The name of God the father and 
Lord of the universe. 

402
00:22:29,100 --> 00:22:31,600
So already really early on in 
church history, there's this 

403
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,300
understanding, the baptism 
brings about forgiveness of sins

404
00:22:35,300 --> 00:22:38,500
and a new Supernatural life in 
the name of Jesus. 

405
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,000
So this passage is really really
important in Catholic teaching 

406
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,400
and tells us a lot about baptism
a lot about the Holy Spirit. 

407
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,300
There's all sorts of really 
interesting passages of the 

408
00:22:50,300 --> 00:22:53,100
catechism which touch on those. 
So I want to read out a few 

409
00:22:53,100 --> 00:22:56,800
short passages from the 
catechism, there's about eight 

410
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:58,700
or nine of them that we want to 
read but they're all pretty 

411
00:22:58,700 --> 00:23:01,600
short and you'll see that 
they're all really Punchy and 

412
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,300
striking and really good 
summaries of Catholic teaching. 

413
00:23:06,500 --> 00:23:08,800
So let's start by looking at 
paragraph 7 8 2, that's 

414
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,700
characteristics of the people of
God. 

415
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,100
It says, the people of God is 
marked by characteristics. 

416
00:23:14,100 --> 00:23:17,600
That clearly distinguish, it 
from all other religious, ethnic

417
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,000
political or cultural groups 
found in history. 

418
00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:23,900
One becomes a member of this 
people not by physical birth, 

419
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:29,200
but by being born, a new birth 
of water and the spirit that is 

420
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,200
by faith in Christ and baptism. 
Paragraph. 69. 

421
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,100
One about the holy spirit says 
this term Spirit translates, the

422
00:23:37,100 --> 00:23:41,900
Hebrew word Rua, which is in its
primary sense, means breath air 

423
00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:45,700
and wind Jesus. 
Indeed uses the sensory image of

424
00:23:45,700 --> 00:23:50,600
the wind to suggest Nicodemus, 
the Transcendent newness of him 

425
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:57,000
who is personally God's breath 
the Divine spirit Part of 720 is

426
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,400
about John the Baptist. 
It says finally, with John the 

427
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,900
Baptist, the Holy Spirit, Begins
the restoration to man of the 

428
00:24:03,900 --> 00:24:06,400
Divine likeness prefiguring, 
what? 

429
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,600
He would achieve with an in 
Christ. 

430
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,400
John's baptism was for 
repentance, baptism in water and

431
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:18,800
the spirit will be a new birth. 
Then we have a few here from the

432
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,200
section about, baptism 
paragraph, 12, 15. 

433
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,500
This Sacrament is also called 
The Washing of regeneration and 

434
00:24:25,500 --> 00:24:29,400
Renewal by the holy spirit for 
it signifies and actually brings

435
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,200
about the birth of water. 
And the spirit without which no 

436
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:34,900
one can enter the kingdom of 
God. 

437
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,600
And then in paragraph 1 to 25, 
the blood and water that flowed 

438
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,500
from the pierced side of the 
crucified, Jesus, I types of 

439
00:24:43,500 --> 00:24:47,300
baptism and the Eucharist, the 
sacraments of New Life. from 

440
00:24:47,300 --> 00:24:50,900
then on it is possible to be 
born of water and the spirit in 

441
00:24:50,900 --> 00:24:56,100
order to enter the kingdom of 
God, And then in paragraph 12, 

442
00:24:56,100 --> 00:24:59,900
38, the baptismal water is 
consecrated by a prayer of 

443
00:24:59,900 --> 00:25:03,800
epiclesis. 
The church asks God through his 

444
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,700
son, the power of the Holy 
Spirit, may be sent upon the 

445
00:25:06,700 --> 00:25:10,500
water so that those who will be 
baptized in, it may be born of 

446
00:25:10,500 --> 00:25:14,300
water and the spirit, see 
hearing all, these really clear,

447
00:25:14,300 --> 00:25:18,400
links here to John chapter 3, 
paragraph 1, 2 5 7. 

448
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,100
And this is really important 
paragraph for understanding. 

449
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,200
Whether you have to be baptized 
to be saved, says the Lord 

450
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,400
himself affirms that baptism is 
necessary for salvation. 

451
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,100
He also commands his Us to 
proclaim the gospel to All 

452
00:25:33,100 --> 00:25:36,900
Nations and to baptize them 
baptism is necessary for 

453
00:25:36,900 --> 00:25:41,300
salvation for those to whom the 
gospel has been proclaimed. 

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00:25:41,700 --> 00:25:44,400
And to those who have had the 
possibility of asking for the 

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00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,800
sacrament. 
The church does not know of any 

456
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,000
other means other than baptism 
that assures and treat into 

457
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,700
Eternal. 
Beatitude that is why she takes 

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00:25:53,700 --> 00:25:56,900
care not to neglect the mission.
She has received from the Lord 

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00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,100
to see that all who can be 
baptized are reborn of water and

460
00:26:01,100 --> 00:26:04,700
the spirit Pirate. 
God has bound salvation to the 

461
00:26:04,700 --> 00:26:08,200
sacrament of baptism, but he 
himself is not bound by his 

462
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,800
sacraments, that last phrase is 
really important. 

463
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,600
So the church teaches that God 
has set things up in such a way 

464
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,700
that the ordinary way to be 
saved at least two initially 

465
00:26:18,700 --> 00:26:22,500
enter, the kingdom of God is 
through baptism, but God can 

466
00:26:22,500 --> 00:26:25,000
work outside of that. 
It's just the church. 

467
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,100
Does not know of any other 
certain way that we can enter 

468
00:26:28,100 --> 00:26:30,200
the kingdom of God. 
Apart from that baptism. 

469
00:26:31,300 --> 00:26:34,900
Paragraph 1 2. 6, 2 says, the 
different effects of baptism is 

470
00:26:34,900 --> 00:26:38,000
signified by the perceptible 
elements of the sacramental, 

471
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,700
right immersion in water 
symbolizes, not only death and 

472
00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:45,900
purification, but also 
regeneration and renewal, thus 

473
00:26:45,900 --> 00:26:49,800
the two principal affects our 
purification from sins and new 

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00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:55,700
birth in the Holy Spirit. 
Paragraph 2790 is in the section

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00:26:55,700 --> 00:26:59,400
about the Our Father. 
It says, grammatically our 

476
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,400
qualifies a reality common to 
more than one person. 

477
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,700
There is only one God and he's 
recognized as father, by those 

478
00:27:06,700 --> 00:27:11,400
who through faith in his only 
son, a reborn of him by water 

479
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:17,300
and the spirit paragraph 5 to 6,
says to become a child in 

480
00:27:17,300 --> 00:27:20,100
relation to God, is the 
condition for entering the 

481
00:27:20,100 --> 00:27:22,900
kingdom for this. 
We must humble ourselves and 

482
00:27:22,900 --> 00:27:26,500
become little even more to 
become children of God. 

483
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,600
We must be born from above or 
born of God. 

484
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,000
And then paragraph 591. 
The last one, it says, Jesus 

485
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,200
asked the religious authorities 
of Jerusalem to believe in him 

486
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,000
because of the father's Works 
which he accomplished, but such 

487
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:46,300
an Act of Faith, must go through
a mysterious death of self for a

488
00:27:46,308 --> 00:27:49,800
new birth, from above under the 
influence of divine grace. 

489
00:27:51,100 --> 00:27:53,800
So, all sorts of really 
interesting Catholic teachings 

490
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,600
in there and I'll include as 
many of those as I can in the 

491
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,700
show notes. 
One other thing to mention 

492
00:27:59,700 --> 00:28:03,100
before we finish, today's 
podcast is if you've seen the 

493
00:28:03,300 --> 00:28:06,100
movie Son of God, which came out
a few years ago. 

494
00:28:06,100 --> 00:28:10,000
And also the Bible TV series 
when they depicted this scene, 

495
00:28:10,300 --> 00:28:13,700
when Nicodemus comes to Jesus at
night time, apparently, what 

496
00:28:13,700 --> 00:28:19,300
happened while they were filming
on set is just as Jesus, the 

497
00:28:19,300 --> 00:28:23,900
act, the actor playing Jesus 
said, the line The wind blows 

498
00:28:23,900 --> 00:28:27,600
wherever it pleases, you hear 
it, sound then apparently on the

499
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,700
set at that moment and this was 
captured on the footage. 

500
00:28:29,700 --> 00:28:32,600
If you go back and watch it, 
there was this big kind of 

501
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,500
gentle gust of wind. 
And then the actors kind of just

502
00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:40,600
stay in the moment for about 10 
seconds before they continue 

503
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,000
with it. 
And you could say that that was 

504
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,000
a miraculous. 
Maybe. 

505
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,500
So that's just an interesting 
link to this particular Gospel 

506
00:28:47,500 --> 00:28:50,000
reading. 
So we'll finish it there for 

507
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,200
today. 
This is, as I said a fascinating

508
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,500
passage, if you've learned 
something new, please share it 

509
00:28:54,500 --> 00:28:56,900
with others. 
I think it's really fascinating.

510
00:28:56,900 --> 00:29:01,100
In particular, I didn't know 
that born again can be 

511
00:29:01,100 --> 00:29:04,200
translated, born from above. 
And that that's actually the 

512
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,400
hinge between the 
misunderstanding between 

513
00:29:06,700 --> 00:29:10,700
Nicodemus and Jesus. 
Thanks again and we'll see you 

514
00:29:10,700 --> 00:29:12,900
again tomorrow. 
We will continue from this very 

515
00:29:12,900 --> 00:29:13,400
place.