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Hello everyone and welcome to 
the doctors of running podcast 

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00:01:05,599 --> 00:01:09,500
where we a group of doctors of 
physical therapy discuss the art

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and the science of the stuff 
that we're putting on our theme.

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I'm Andrea Myers. 
And today we have a very special

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guest with us Shannon Thompson, 
who's a mental performance 

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consultant who works with the 
Northern Arizona University, 

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running teams Elite and 
professional endurance athletes 

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from all around the world. 
I got to know Shannon. 

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I think a couple of years ago 
when I took one of her online 

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mental performance intensives 
and I just got so much out of it

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and thankfully Shannon agreed to
join me on the podcast today. 

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So she can share her vast 
knowledge and experience with 

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all of our listeners. 
Just a little bit about 

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Shannon's background, she has an
undergraduate degree in 

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Psychology as well as a master's
in applied positive psychology 

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from the University of 
Pennsylvania. 

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And she works out of hypo to, 
like I said, she works with her 

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wide range of clients, including
Elite and professionals. 

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So when I took her mental 
performance intensive, it was 

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really cool to have, some of the
members of the NAC elite team 

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join and share their thoughts 
and experience. 

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It's really nice to know that 
even Elite level athletes 

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struggle with mental performance
things, just like the rest of 

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Us. 
And it was really great hearing 

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their perspective. 
And some of the things that 

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they've learned and apply to 
their training and racing 

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Shannon is also a runner 
herself. 

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She competes in races from the 
802 ultra distance Trail Races, 

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which is really awesome. 
So welcome Shannon. 

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Thank you so much for joining 
us. 

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Could you tell us a little bit 
about your background? 

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Both as a mental performance 
consultant and as a runner? 

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Yeah. 
Well, thank you very much, 

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Andrea for For having me. 
I remember your group your group

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with I think Heather, pecs, pecs
groups and they're such a good 

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warm. 
I don't know, a fantastic group 

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of people. 
So I've really enjoyed doing 

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sessions with with those groups.
So it's, I'm grateful. 

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You asked me to be here. 
So, yeah, my background one, I'm

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originally from British Columbia
Canada. 

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So the west coast of Canada and 
funnily enough, my athletic 

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background, Primarily in a sport
called three-day Eventing. 

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So I rode horses for a living 
for a really long time, which is

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the first place that I got a 
sense to of X, the power of the 

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mind with respect to 
Performance, both as a athlete 

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and also, as a coach and then my
social life evolved into 

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running, I always wanted to run 
in my social life evolved into 

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running. 
So I like did I have did 

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everything from 800 meters on 
the track to Ultra. 

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Has and always at a very, you 
know, novice level in comparison

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to the athletes that I'm working
with. 

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But, you know, with running, I 
mean it's no matter what level 

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you're at. 
I think you do experience very 

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similar challenges. 
So had a little bit of taste 

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Taste of some of the challenges 
that athletes, I work with 

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experienced. 
Yeah, and I was in, I moved to 

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Flagstaff and 2015 and was there
all the time for like just until

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this Spring of shoe. 
Now, I live in Philadelphia, so 

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I'm doing the same work with the
same. 

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People, I go back to flag a lot,
but just having a little another

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adventure, I guess you could 
say. 

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That's great. 
Philadelphia is a great City. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah, like it. 

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How did you what made you decide
to go into sport psychology? 

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How did you go down that road? 
Yeah. 

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So Equestrian sport it. 
You know it's funny every people

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will say my sport is such a 
mental Sport and that's just 

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like an Allsports, our mental 
sports, right? 

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But that was about the first 
thing that was about to come out

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of my mouth is that's a 
surprisingly mental sport 

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because people think the other 
words does all the work but but 

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I guess you know anytime you get
seriously involved in any craft,

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they're all very mental. 
So I think I got it. 

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I got a taste of how like My 
emotional state, my ability to 

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focus, affected how, I trained, 
how I learned how I competed, 

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and then as a coach, I saw how 
those things affected the 

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athletes. 
I coached, I even saw how my 

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emotional state and focus as a 
coach affected the athletes. 

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I coach, you know, seriously. 
Oh, man, it's really our mind 

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and how we feel, and what we 
think. 

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And what we see, and how we 
focus really impacts things, 

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like dramatically, not just mine
early. 

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So I would say it was just 
developing an awareness of that 

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mostly through equestrian sport 
that made me want to continue on

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and do this work. 
Yeah and I you know, we're going

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to talk this whole episode about
the effect of the mind on 

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running and but it's true. 
Our minds affect everything we 

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do and we can apply a lot of 
sport. 

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Psychology principles to even 
non-sport things in our life 

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that we, you know, have anxiety 
about or worried about doing 

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well. 
So, I think sport just in 

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general. 
Teaches us a lot of lessons 

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about life. 
How to deal with adversity? 

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How to deal with challenges what
to do when things, don't really 

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go our way. 
So hopefully people will get a 

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lot of good information out of 
this episode. 

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I'm sure that they will. 
Again thanks so much for joining

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us. 
I did want to ask your so your 

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Masters is in positive 
psychology. 

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So what is that? 
Yeah, positive psychology is 

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funny even the field is trying 
to come up with a different term

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for it or has been for years. 
But it doesn't necessarily 

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describe it very well like 
people. 

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But basically what positive 
psychology is is it's the study 

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of what contributes to human 
flourishing. 

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So thriving well-being, I'd say 
achievement is lumped in there. 

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Excelling just it has to study 
of the factors that are present 

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or people can cultivate 22. 
To thrive and grow and have have

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have optimized their well-being.
I'm often and how what a better 

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approach to sports psychology 
than how to flourish, right? 

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Yes. 
Okay, so next before we dive 

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into our main segment, I just 
want to go over our subjective 

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questions. 
So Shannon, this is what we 

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asked our listeners and they'll 
respond either in the comments 

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on YouTube or send us an email. 
So the subjective for Is what 

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mantra' or phrase? 
Do you use to get through tough 

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parts of training or racing 
Shannon? 

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Do you have like a manta that 
you use? 

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Oh, yeah. 
I, I'd say if I have a mantra, 

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it does tend to very kind of 
workout to workout or a, yeah, 

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race to race. 
I find that can be true for 

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athletes to, but I'd say, if 
there was a go to that, always 

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That that these pretty much 
always reliable. 

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It's like when you I saw that 
questions like it's like 

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focusing on just the chunk of 
the race here in or just the 

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chunk of the work out your end. 
So it could be this much this 

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smile, this lap, this K, this 
interval this, you know? 

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And yeah if you can break a 
larger effort into a smaller 

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chunk and be like I just have to
accomplish my pacer my 

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instructions or hold this spot 
in a pack for this model or this

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lap or this And that's what I 
would go to. 

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Yeah. 
I love it. 

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Yeah. 
And I would say same like 

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there's so many things that you 
can say to yourself depending on

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what's going on. 
But something I found myself, 

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saying over the past couple 
months. 

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Like either in a hard workout or
inner race was just stay with 

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it. 
Like you find that effort and 

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then your brain can get 
distracted by thinking about how

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many miles do I have left or the
hill that's coming up at Mile 5 

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or whatever. 
But if you just stay with the 

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effort and And that kind of 
helps you stay in the moment to.

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So yeah, just lately I've found 
that that's been very helpful 

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for me in my training and 
racing, that's a good one. 

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That's a really good one, it's 
funny a phrasal used a lot like 

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a lot of athletes will use when 
we come up with like a focused 

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plan for their races will be, 
they'll select a chunk of the 

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race for their whole goal is to 
like they'll say stay attached 

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and a lot of times that stay 
attached to stay attached to a 

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pack, stay attached to attached 
to person ahead of them. 

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But then every so often it stay 
attached to the effort or stay 

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attached to the PACE and so that
various like you're saying stay 

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with it. 
It's like it. 

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We use that a lot. 
You're awesome. 

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I love that. 
So, moving into our main 

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segment. 
I thought that we could first 

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just talk about. 
Well, what is sports psychology?

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And what is mental performance? 
Why does it matter for athletes?

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So, maybe you could just tell us
a little bit about what you do. 

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And just in general terms, how 
can mental performance? 

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And straining help Runners. 
Yeah then we'll dive into the 

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details. 
Yeah, I know that sounds good. 

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Um yeah, I would say like Our 
mental and emotional state, both

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in how we save relate to 
training and racing or another 

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word for relate, could be our 
perspective on training and 

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racing like what it means for 
us, what its significance is, 

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what it's going to be. 
Like, what we're hoping for or 

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expecting like our perspective, 
it really impacts our or 

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emotional state. 
I would say going into training 

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or racing, which is important 
because Um, I'd say success in 

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endurance sport whether it's 
within a workout or whether it's

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within a race is influenced 
greatly by the state of a person

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stress system. 
And the reason for that is that 

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in the same room, talking to a 
bunch of physiotherapists and 

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doctors, you probably could even
tell be of our detail. 

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What's actually going on in the 
body when there is a high state 

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of exertion, but the way that I 
usually explain it is, you know,

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when you're at a high state of 
exertion within a workout or 

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00:11:31,700 --> 00:11:36,399
within a race, the physiology of
your body or your Is getting a 

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00:11:36,407 --> 00:11:38,700
little bit out of balance, so 
you're not taking in as much 

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oxygen, as maybe your body is 
using your accumulating lactate.

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And usually, you're far from 
actually harming yourself. 

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You know, I really at any point 
within a race, but our brain is 

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really sensitive to any little 
shifts in imbalance, in these 

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things. 
And so free cried out even with,

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like, just a little bit of a 
change, right? 

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Yeah. 
So so when you find yourself in 

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that moment of Hi exertion. 
One of these things your brain 

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will do is will kind of check in
with your emotional state and 

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check in with your emotional 
climate as to whether or not 

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it's safe for you to continue to
push and continue to be not 

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state of imbalance. 
And when our stress system is 

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alarmed, or like we're 
perceiving. 

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There's a whole lot at stake and
maybe our Identity or belonging 

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a group is on the line when we 
are doing a workout or the 

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likelihood of assets. 
Even our goals or any of that 

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stuff is like if we perceive 
that to be on the line when 

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we're doing a workout or we're 
doing a race, usually our stress

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system is a little more, little 
more alarmed so that then when 

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the body gets to that moment of 
high exertion, it's checking in,

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it's like gosh I don't know if 
I'm okay to continue. 

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If our stress level is high 
usually says, I know we're not 

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and that's what we'll start to 
shut you down. 

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And people will be able to 
sustain their Pace to the end of

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the race or people will blow off
or whatever. 

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So I'd say The be the most 
directly performance-related 

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reason to work on mental 
training is to work on 

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perspective and practices that 
help a person to see the race in

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a welcoming safe. 
See it as a welcoming and safe 

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environment and then have 
methods to stay calm and present

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and then help that brand feel 
safe throughout. 

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So, yeah, from a performance 
perspective that for running, 

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particularly I'd say, that's why
it's important and I also think 

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from a just enjoying it kind of 
perspective to you know, like if

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we think it's really normal for 
anybody who commits a lot of 

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time and something like training
for a marathon, for example, it 

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can start to feel like it really
matters a lot and we like how we

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like the time we run can matter 
a lot or how we stack up against

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others and that can start to 
take away from all the potential

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that running has to give your 
life, right? 

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Like, like all the 
possibilities, it has to give 

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you life because of time outside
and with good people, and moving

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your body and be grateful to do 
that. 

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So I think mental training can 
really help a person optimize 

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their hold the whole experience 
of the sport as well. 

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Definitely, I'm glad you brought
that up because I think it's so 

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common, not just for runners but
for anyone in a sport that is 

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easily quantifiable to start 
defining Yourself by those 

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numbers and like You're worth to
those numbers. 

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So I ran a marathon on Sunday. 
It didn't go how I wanted. 

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But I've really worked on like 
my my marathon time is not who I

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am and even though I am 
disappointed and how it went, I 

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don't feel like less of a person
because it didn't go. 

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Well, and I would not say that, 
you know, 10 or 15 years ago, I 

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would have responded the same 
way to like a disappointment in 

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a race. 
I was a professional cyclist 

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before I came back to running 
and my identity was very much 

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linked to how I did in cycling, 
because, of course, I was 

257
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dedicating all of my time and 
effort to my cycling, but I 

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think and I'm sure that will hit
on this later. 

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But Runners, any athletes, like,
when you were participating in 

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your, you said it was three day.
What was the three-day 70? 

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Enter any question. 
Yeah, so it's like if all you 

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00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:37,600
think of yourself as is that 
type of athlete when it doesn't 

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00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,600
go well, your identity has 
really taken a big hit, right? 

264
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,899
And it can be devastating to 
have a bad performance, but if 

265
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you learn how to be a more 
well-rounded person, where 

266
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you've got where you get your 
value from doing other things, 

267
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besides your sport. 
Yes. 

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You might be disappointed 
because you're had a Bad race or

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a bad workout or whatever but 
it's not, you know, rocking or 

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identity to the core. 
Yeah, exactly. 

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00:16:09,299 --> 00:16:13,299
So when you work with clients 
and maybe we can just start out 

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by talking about performance 
anxiety, because I think that's 

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really common thing that people 
struggle with what are some 

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techniques that you use with 
people to help them manage them?

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Because, of course, some level 
of performance anxiety is 

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00:16:27,799 --> 00:16:31,899
actually good and right. 
Yeah I know exactly I think um 

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you know what when it comes to 
Performance anxiety or nerves 

278
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you know when being nervous in 
the lead-up to erase? 

279
00:16:41,299 --> 00:16:46,399
Yeah like our I think there's a 
few pretty basic human instinct 

280
00:16:46,399 --> 00:16:51,799
of factors at play there and one
of them is your your brain and 

281
00:16:51,799 --> 00:16:54,399
your mind has noticed that 
you're entering a space where 

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there is a challenge to be met 
that matters to you and so That 

283
00:17:00,100 --> 00:17:03,899
presents the possibility of 
pleasure and reward and it also 

284
00:17:03,899 --> 00:17:06,700
presents the possibility of pain
and disappointment. 

285
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So the brain is aware that this 
is an environment that could 

286
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could cause any of those things.
And then the other thing is, is 

287
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our brain really doesn't deal 
well with the unknown like it 

288
00:17:18,700 --> 00:17:22,098
really struggles with that. 
It's a prediction. 

289
00:17:22,098 --> 00:17:25,098
I heard as a really great, many 
people listening, this probably 

290
00:17:25,098 --> 00:17:28,400
know this person Daniel Siegel, 
he's a psychiatrist and author 

291
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,000
and he writes like the brain is 
basically an anticipation 

292
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,700
machine and and that like that's
just what it does all the time. 

293
00:17:33,700 --> 00:17:37,299
And it's job is to keep us safe.
So it looks in the future, looks

294
00:17:37,299 --> 00:17:39,200
in the future looks and future 
wants. 

295
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:40,500
It wants to know what's going to
happen. 

296
00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:41,299
What's know? 
It's going to be. 

297
00:17:41,299 --> 00:17:45,599
Yeah, and I think a lot of 
athletes can relate to the 

298
00:17:45,599 --> 00:17:49,099
experience of they've got an 
upcoming, probably goal, race or

299
00:17:49,107 --> 00:17:51,400
something. 
Anyway, sometimes and this is 

300
00:17:51,599 --> 00:17:53,099
what's going to happen, what's 
going to happen. 

301
00:17:53,099 --> 00:17:55,000
And how fast am I run? 
Who else is there? 

302
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,900
You know, how am I gonna finish?
Like, it's a looping, looping 

303
00:17:57,900 --> 00:18:00,000
looping, right? 
And that's just like the Doing 

304
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,099
what brands do, which is trying 
to find certainty in the 

305
00:18:03,099 --> 00:18:04,599
unknown, in the meaningful 
unknown. 

306
00:18:04,599 --> 00:18:08,000
So, so I'd say performance 
anxiety, typically arises just 

307
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:13,700
from something mattering. 
And that the outcome of that 

308
00:18:13,700 --> 00:18:15,400
thing being unknown until it's 
done. 

309
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,400
So and the Brain doing, it's 
anticipating that it does. 

310
00:18:19,900 --> 00:18:22,799
One thing about it is, I think, 
you know, one of the issues that

311
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,599
probably the primary issue that 
a lot of us have with 

312
00:18:25,599 --> 00:18:28,099
performance anxiety, is it just 
feels bad, right? 

313
00:18:28,099 --> 00:18:30,500
Like it feels horrible stuff. 
You know, people ask people, 

314
00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:33,400
where do you feel and, you know,
anxiety in your body or nervous 

315
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,799
system with its stomach and 
head, and Limbs and throat and 

316
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:38,700
heart. 
And these are like all the most 

317
00:18:38,700 --> 00:18:41,000
difficult places. 
So it's just uncomfortable 

318
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:47,500
feelings, and then and then our 
brain also has a tendency to 

319
00:18:47,500 --> 00:18:51,000
interpret ambiguous on 
comfortable things as - so. 

320
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:55,700
So he, you know, we approach 
this like Environment that we 

321
00:18:55,700 --> 00:18:59,900
consider meaningful yet unknown.
So our brain goes, oh, jeez and 

322
00:18:59,900 --> 00:19:03,900
like creates all these you know 
that the physiological reaction 

323
00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:06,900
that is anxiety. 
And then the brain goes and 

324
00:19:06,900 --> 00:19:08,700
that's that, I don't know what 
this is. 

325
00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:15,000
So that's bad in the threat. 
And and so so that, so 

326
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,099
basically, our brain just has a 
reflexive way of dealing with 

327
00:19:18,099 --> 00:19:21,200
these environments and in 
dealing with our own response. 

328
00:19:21,599 --> 00:19:25,500
But in actual fact, our nerves 
are actually the Body rising to 

329
00:19:25,500 --> 00:19:27,799
its highest capacity. 
So, one of the great things 

330
00:19:27,799 --> 00:19:31,200
about the brain is that when it 
notices that it's exposed to a 

331
00:19:31,900 --> 00:19:34,099
environment where there's a 
challenge that's meaningful to 

332
00:19:34,099 --> 00:19:35,700
us. 
It presumes, we're going to need

333
00:19:35,700 --> 00:19:38,400
to exert. 
That's like the most protective 

334
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,299
presumption to make, right? 
So it like it actually starts to

335
00:19:41,299 --> 00:19:43,599
give like those those nerves. 
Like when you feel them you're 

336
00:19:43,599 --> 00:19:45,900
actually receiving like, Jen, 
you're actually receiving more 

337
00:19:45,900 --> 00:19:48,700
energy, you access to more than 
you normally would. 

338
00:19:49,799 --> 00:19:53,700
You're already receiving 
endorphins so pain-relieving or 

339
00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:56,400
easing. 
Mural chemicals, your senses are

340
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,099
peaking. 
So you see more and you hear 

341
00:19:58,099 --> 00:20:00,799
more than you normally would. 
You think fast or not always 

342
00:20:00,799 --> 00:20:04,099
better. 
That's how you know, everything 

343
00:20:04,099 --> 00:20:07,700
is heightened. 
So so I'd say the first step I 

344
00:20:07,700 --> 00:20:10,900
usually take with athletes with 
performance anxiety, has helped 

345
00:20:10,900 --> 00:20:12,700
them understand like why it's 
happening, which you kind of 

346
00:20:12,708 --> 00:20:16,200
just did, but then help them to 
reframe what's happening, which 

347
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,500
is your body's rising to its 
highest physical capacity. 

348
00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:23,599
So actually I call them 
advantageous as as uncomfortable

349
00:20:23,599 --> 00:20:26,500
as they are. 
Are there advantages where they 

350
00:20:26,500 --> 00:20:31,000
can become is disadvantageous is
because of our brains tendency 

351
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,400
to interpret something 
ambiguous. 

352
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:37,200
And - as bad usually. 
When we start to feel nervous, 

353
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,700
we start to think about 
everything that we are fearing 

354
00:20:39,700 --> 00:20:43,700
or don't want to have happen. 
So we call these fear thoughts 

355
00:20:43,700 --> 00:20:46,599
or fear stories and you know 
you're having a fear story 

356
00:20:46,599 --> 00:20:49,000
because it's about something you
don't want to have happen. 

357
00:20:49,799 --> 00:20:52,599
So way to work with that is to 
just notice. 

358
00:20:52,599 --> 00:20:57,000
Like when you're the A logical 
response of nervousness happens.

359
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:01,099
Notice it notice pull towards 
fear and towards the things you 

360
00:21:01,099 --> 00:21:04,200
don't want to have happen. 
And then they all this is, this 

361
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,599
is my brain, it is not me, it's 
a phrase, we use a lot or this 

362
00:21:06,599 --> 00:21:10,000
is our brain, it is not true, 
and then, and then instead, like

363
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,400
really intentionally think about
all the all the great things 

364
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,299
that could happen that day in 
the workout in the race. 

365
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,299
You know, I literally had 
someone say, to me, I get french

366
00:21:20,299 --> 00:21:22,000
fries after my race that was 
their thing. 

367
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:23,299
The other day we were talking 
about nerves. 

368
00:21:23,299 --> 00:21:25,599
So, like, Like, think about 
everything, you have to look 

369
00:21:25,599 --> 00:21:29,400
forward to. 
And then that transforms nerves 

370
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,900
from, like, fear to excitement. 
And actually my understanding is

371
00:21:33,900 --> 00:21:37,599
when, when researchers have 
looked at, like, the 

372
00:21:37,599 --> 00:21:40,500
physiological mixture of fear 
versus excitement, they're not 

373
00:21:40,500 --> 00:21:44,200
exactly the same but they're 
very but they're very similar 

374
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,900
and you can change the physical 
physiological. 

375
00:21:46,900 --> 00:21:52,599
Reaction of fear into excitement
by seeing the upcoming event as 

376
00:21:52,599 --> 00:21:54,099
a challenge as opposed to a 
threat. 

377
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,599
And thinking about, thinking 
about everything that you have 

378
00:21:57,599 --> 00:22:00,200
to gain you can change. 
You can literally can transform 

379
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,799
that that. 
Yeah, that's that's one way. 

380
00:22:04,799 --> 00:22:08,200
Yeah, I love that. 
I just wanted to highlight one 

381
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,799
thing. 
You said you, it's important for

382
00:22:10,799 --> 00:22:14,099
us to recognize the types of 
thoughts were having like, oh, 

383
00:22:14,099 --> 00:22:17,200
that's a fear thought and I can 
change that right. 

384
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,900
Like, it's so easy to just 
follow whatever our brain is 

385
00:22:20,900 --> 00:22:24,000
doing and think like, oh, this 
is what's happening and I can't 

386
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,299
control it. 
But if you can label, the type 

387
00:22:26,299 --> 00:22:30,099
of thought you're having and 
say, okay, that's the wrong 

388
00:22:30,099 --> 00:22:32,299
thing to be thinking. 
Right now, I can think of 

389
00:22:32,299 --> 00:22:35,500
something better like, Instead 
of thinking about, oh, I'm going

390
00:22:35,500 --> 00:22:37,900
to blow up two miles before the 
finish. 

391
00:22:37,900 --> 00:22:39,900
What am I going to do? 
Think about how you're going to 

392
00:22:39,900 --> 00:22:43,099
push through when it starts 
getting hard towards the end, 

393
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,400
like we only have so much time 
and so much mental energy, 

394
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,599
right? 
So we could either use that time

395
00:22:48,599 --> 00:22:51,400
to think about the bad things 
that could happen or we could 

396
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,900
use that energy to think about 
the good things that could 

397
00:22:54,900 --> 00:22:58,599
happen and like practice that. 
So why not use that time to 

398
00:22:58,599 --> 00:23:01,799
think about it going? 
Well, rather than it going 

399
00:23:01,799 --> 00:23:03,099
poorly. 
Yeah. 

400
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,000
Yeah, and you're ready to go. 
You ask like what's the value of

401
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:11,299
mental, you know, mental 
training and yeah, you're so 

402
00:23:11,299 --> 00:23:12,599
right? 
Like, that's why one of the 

403
00:23:12,607 --> 00:23:17,000
things based on what you just 
said is, is mental training can 

404
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,900
help you become aware that 
there's a choice, you know 

405
00:23:19,900 --> 00:23:23,000
between between the fear of 
thoughts and excitement, 

406
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:29,200
thoughts, let's say, I think it 
also helps, you understand, it 

407
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,299
helps you be able to challenge 
the accuracy of the fear. 

408
00:23:31,299 --> 00:23:37,200
Thoughts to mmmm. because 
oftentimes it's not ER it's 

409
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,599
often tempting the problem that 
nerves cause athletes is not 

410
00:23:40,599 --> 00:23:44,799
even like oh I'm having bad 
thoughts as actually They're not

411
00:23:44,799 --> 00:23:46,299
even noticing. 
It's their thoughts, their 

412
00:23:46,299 --> 00:23:49,900
noticed if they think it feels 
like the truth or it s going to 

413
00:23:49,900 --> 00:23:52,900
half is like reality, you know 
they said no we don't always get

414
00:23:52,900 --> 00:23:55,500
even as far as like I'm having a
thought it's like oh no this is 

415
00:23:55,500 --> 00:24:00,000
going to happen to me. 
One of the more interesting 

416
00:24:00,700 --> 00:24:04,400
tidbits of research I heard some
years ago was that when we 

417
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:10,099
experience fear, shame and 
anger, there is a neurochemical 

418
00:24:10,099 --> 00:24:12,799
produced with those emotions 
that the purpose of that is to 

419
00:24:12,799 --> 00:24:17,500
make me feel like the truth. 
But we don't, but we don't get 

420
00:24:17,500 --> 00:24:23,200
that with positive emotions. 
That's not right. 

421
00:24:24,099 --> 00:24:29,500
It's just, we're just so like 
our Natural Instincts. 

422
00:24:29,900 --> 00:24:32,799
Oh gosh. 
They are something like it comes

423
00:24:32,799 --> 00:24:35,799
to telling us what's true about 
ourselves and our life. 

424
00:24:35,799 --> 00:24:39,700
And this challenge upcoming, you
know what it means about us. 

425
00:24:39,700 --> 00:24:43,099
And I've got to say another 
thing that was helpful for me. 

426
00:24:43,799 --> 00:24:47,900
I had a Boss, a few years ago 
who was a big David Goggins fan 

427
00:24:48,500 --> 00:24:52,400
and he gave me his book and I 
read it and you know it's 

428
00:24:52,900 --> 00:24:55,599
incredible story, right? 
Like what he's been able to 

429
00:24:55,599 --> 00:24:59,599
accomplish is just unbelievable 
but a term he used really helped

430
00:24:59,599 --> 00:25:01,200
me. 
He taught you know we all have 

431
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,599
an inner critic, right? 
Like that voice that tells us 

432
00:25:03,599 --> 00:25:07,500
like we're going to fail but he 
calls it, our inner bitch and I 

433
00:25:07,500 --> 00:25:11,599
think that's just such a great 
term because it helps you like 

434
00:25:11,599 --> 00:25:14,099
separate yourself from that 
voice. 

435
00:25:14,299 --> 00:25:15,599
Right? 
Like yeah. 

436
00:25:15,599 --> 00:25:18,599
When you start getting those 
negative thoughts, like this is 

437
00:25:18,599 --> 00:25:22,000
really not me. 
This is that inner critic. 

438
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,200
And I'm going to shut it up 
because it's awful. 

439
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:26,799
Yeah. 
Yes. 

440
00:25:26,799 --> 00:25:27,599
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

441
00:25:27,599 --> 00:25:30,500
Like frames that voice is just 
an asshole. 

442
00:25:30,599 --> 00:25:33,000
It's actually. 
It's like, it's not sure about 

443
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,200
you. 
It's not helping you. 

444
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,700
It's like, listen to. 
Would you listen to that? 

445
00:25:36,700 --> 00:25:38,700
That, that best sure that 
asshole in real life? 

446
00:25:38,700 --> 00:25:40,599
No, you just call them that 
right? 

447
00:25:40,599 --> 00:25:43,099
Yeah. 
And not to their face, maybe but

448
00:25:43,099 --> 00:25:51,200
you would that's how you And 
yeah, so if an athlete is really

449
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,400
struggling with performance 
anxiety. 

450
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,700
Like I've had so many teammates 
who, like, throw up before every

451
00:25:57,700 --> 00:26:00,400
race will. 
And that, of course, that's no 

452
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,700
longer a good level of arousal 
or great. 

453
00:26:03,700 --> 00:26:07,299
Like, now that's affecting your 
ability to physiologically 

454
00:26:07,299 --> 00:26:10,000
perform. 
So, what are some strategies 

455
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,900
people can use to kind of help 
modulate that level of arousal? 

456
00:26:13,900 --> 00:26:18,900
So, They don't get to that point
of throwing up or like visibly 

457
00:26:18,900 --> 00:26:22,299
shaking on the line like what 
can people do to Tamp that down 

458
00:26:22,299 --> 00:26:24,700
a little bit? 
Yeah, I think. 

459
00:26:25,900 --> 00:26:29,799
Yeah. 
So I'd say and for sure I think 

460
00:26:29,799 --> 00:26:32,700
what you're talking about is 
people who for whom their nerves

461
00:26:32,700 --> 00:26:36,500
gets really quite excessive to 
the point that they're really 

462
00:26:36,500 --> 00:26:39,900
compromising their really 
hampering their enjoyment, and 

463
00:26:39,900 --> 00:26:43,000
then probably also really 
compromising their performance 

464
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,599
and One thing that I'll do and I
think it helped really help. 

465
00:26:47,599 --> 00:26:52,700
People is really creative a plan
for what they're going to do in 

466
00:26:52,700 --> 00:26:56,500
the race and sometimes like. 
And that's what I mean by that 

467
00:26:56,500 --> 00:26:58,099
is like something I do with 
athletes. 

468
00:26:58,099 --> 00:27:00,900
A lot is probably like one of 
the most common tools I use is 

469
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,500
we designed this thing called a 
loose plan, and the loose plan 

470
00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:07,299
is where we brace, we break the 
race into chunks, and we are 

471
00:27:07,307 --> 00:27:09,200
like, okay, all right, should we
start? 

472
00:27:09,299 --> 00:27:11,000
We start out by get the athlete 
to tell me. 

473
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,099
If you could execute this race 
precisely the way you want. 

474
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,200
And we focus on the, the choices
they make and what they do. 

475
00:27:18,500 --> 00:27:21,299
I get them to tell me that and 
then we break it into chunks and

476
00:27:21,299 --> 00:27:26,099
then they basically come out of 
our conversation with a plan. 

477
00:27:26,099 --> 00:27:29,700
So I actually like really mad. 
Probably the last update I spoke

478
00:27:29,700 --> 00:27:33,099
with before this talk was a 
800-meter Runner. 

479
00:27:33,099 --> 00:27:35,700
So it's a bit of a different 
distance but the many people 

480
00:27:35,700 --> 00:27:37,900
listening maybe. 
But the premise is exactly this.

481
00:27:37,900 --> 00:27:40,099
It's exactly the same. 
So, the reason he came to talk 

482
00:27:40,099 --> 00:27:44,099
to me is he was debilitatingly 
nervous before his most. 

483
00:27:44,299 --> 00:27:49,299
Sunrise. 
And, and so, we recognize that 

484
00:27:49,299 --> 00:27:51,299
part of the reason for that was 
probably just she struggles with

485
00:27:51,299 --> 00:27:53,700
the unknown in circumstances, 
that matter with him. 

486
00:27:53,799 --> 00:27:55,799
So we decided we're going to 
create some known within the 

487
00:27:55,799 --> 00:27:58,099
known and the unknown, some 
known within the unknown. 

488
00:27:58,700 --> 00:28:01,200
I'm going to decide some. 
We're going to decide in advance

489
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:02,400
some decisions that he's gonna 
make. 

490
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,900
So we made a decision that he's 
going to focus on first lap, 

491
00:28:06,900 --> 00:28:10,000
like first was like, first 300 
of the race folks on position 

492
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,000
positions first priority, then 
he's going to stick. 

493
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:18,099
In position for the next middle,
like the middle 400 of the 800. 

494
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,799
And then he's going to focus on 
form in the last 200 and I think

495
00:28:23,099 --> 00:28:25,400
honestly have. 
And one thing you'll notice 

496
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,500
about that is regardless of 
where he is in the race, 

497
00:28:28,500 --> 00:28:32,299
regardless of, who's around him,
if he's leading wealthy, the 

498
00:28:32,299 --> 00:28:34,700
racerback, the race, you can do 
all those things, you know, he 

499
00:28:34,700 --> 00:28:38,200
can focus on position the best, 
he can, he can stick to the 

500
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,799
person around him, regardless of
where he's at, and he can focus 

501
00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:43,099
on format and the race. 
That's the key to a good loose 

502
00:28:43,099 --> 00:28:47,599
plan is you can do No matter 
what's going on around you and 

503
00:28:47,599 --> 00:28:50,299
that gives you a sense of 
control, bit of sense of control

504
00:28:50,299 --> 00:28:54,299
and some knowns. 
And that that alone can like 

505
00:28:54,299 --> 00:28:59,200
bring down high level of it as a
high level of anxiety. 

506
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,900
And we do at the marathon to 
break the marathon in 25K chunks

507
00:29:02,900 --> 00:29:06,000
or five mile chunk sir. 
However, the athlete wants to do

508
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,799
it, but saying it's like for the
same purpose and the same idea, 

509
00:29:09,799 --> 00:29:13,799
you create known to the unknown 
and then that can help you. 

510
00:29:14,599 --> 00:29:17,299
Calm down. 
I had one thing I realized is 

511
00:29:17,299 --> 00:29:21,700
that I think athletes are 
nervous about the outcome. 

512
00:29:21,700 --> 00:29:23,700
For sure. 
Like they do want a certain 

513
00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:27,299
outcome in a race but I think 
they're equally nervous that 

514
00:29:27,299 --> 00:29:29,099
they're not going to be the 
person they want to be in the 

515
00:29:29,099 --> 00:29:31,099
race. 
Like they're not they're not 

516
00:29:31,099 --> 00:29:33,000
going to make themselves proud, 
they're not going to make the 

517
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,700
right choices. 
They're not, you know, they're 

518
00:29:34,700 --> 00:29:36,200
not going to do everything they 
could do. 

519
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,400
Like if I was to talk to nothing
about what they want from their 

520
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,400
athletic career practically 
everybody says I just want to 

521
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,099
know, I reached my potential, I 
did everything. 

522
00:29:44,299 --> 00:29:46,400
I did everything I could do, you
know? 

523
00:29:46,599 --> 00:29:50,299
So I think another big beauty of
the loose plan is it creates 

524
00:29:50,299 --> 00:29:52,500
some confidence in the athlete? 
They are going to be the person 

525
00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:56,599
they want to be in the race. 
So that's a pretty like 

526
00:29:56,599 --> 00:30:00,799
cognitive like, like planning 
oriented way. 

527
00:30:01,700 --> 00:30:03,500
Outside of that. 
Honestly, I use. 

528
00:30:03,500 --> 00:30:06,700
I use a lot of the breath 
meditation meditation with the 

529
00:30:06,700 --> 00:30:11,400
breath, so the belly breath. 
So was somebody who is who is 

530
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,599
throwing up or gets to the point
of throwing up or Really, really

531
00:30:14,599 --> 00:30:18,599
shaking, I would suggest like, 
go for a walk set, your timer 

532
00:30:18,900 --> 00:30:22,099
for 5 minutes, breathing soft 
belly and let your attention 

533
00:30:22,099 --> 00:30:25,700
wrestling breath. 
And they do do it like and don't

534
00:30:25,700 --> 00:30:28,299
like set the timer because 
otherwise most of us will stop 

535
00:30:28,799 --> 00:30:32,500
you don't like what I have to do
it but the belly breath 

536
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,400
activates the parasympathetic 
nervous system change, and 

537
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,900
you're all going to know you're 
worried about that me, but it 

538
00:30:38,900 --> 00:30:41,799
just helps calm the body down 
and stops like that 

539
00:30:41,799 --> 00:30:46,099
physiological. 
Response to perceived threat 

540
00:30:46,099 --> 00:30:48,799
really is what it's doing. 
And have you read a Lauren 

541
00:30:48,799 --> 00:30:53,200
fleischmann's new book? 
No, it's excellent. 

542
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,700
I would highly recommend it and 
one of the things she wrote 

543
00:30:55,700 --> 00:31:00,599
about is a something she did. 
I think from like Middle School 

544
00:31:00,599 --> 00:31:05,700
on is it was like a tradition? 
Her team had is before a race, 

545
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,799
they would all go like in a 
feel, you know, like outside of 

546
00:31:09,799 --> 00:31:13,599
the track and just lay down flat
in the grass. 

547
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,799
And just like completely ground 
themselves. 

548
00:31:17,299 --> 00:31:20,500
And she said that, like she did 
that like through her 

549
00:31:20,500 --> 00:31:24,200
professional career and it was 
always a method that just helped

550
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:29,000
her like focus and tune out. 
You know, all the external noise

551
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:33,599
and pressure and I think because
nature is also a very good way 

552
00:31:33,599 --> 00:31:36,099
of like centering yourself, 
right? 

553
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,299
We're like noticing external 
beauty. 

554
00:31:39,599 --> 00:31:44,500
So I think everybody just has 
their Vic thing is probably 

555
00:31:44,500 --> 00:31:46,599
going to work better for one 
person than another. 

556
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,200
One of my good friends and 
training Partners. 

557
00:31:50,500 --> 00:31:53,799
She could be in the middle of, 
you know, a race. 

558
00:31:54,099 --> 00:31:57,700
And she'll be like, looking 
around at like the trees and 

559
00:31:57,700 --> 00:32:00,700
yeah, you know, and I just can't
do that. 

560
00:32:00,700 --> 00:32:04,799
But for her it like, it helps 
her not focus on how she feels 

561
00:32:05,099 --> 00:32:08,299
and she does Iron Man. 
So she's got a lot of practice, 

562
00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:13,799
not focusing on how she feels, 
but just finding ways to get Out

563
00:32:13,807 --> 00:32:18,099
of your own head and see the 
bigger picture I guess. 

564
00:32:18,599 --> 00:32:20,200
Oh, definitely. 
Yeah. 

565
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,400
And I think grounding, that's 
another really great. 

566
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,799
That's another really great 
method to calm yourself and I 

567
00:32:26,799 --> 00:32:29,400
think you're like the nice thing
about the grounding is you can 

568
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:30,700
really incorporate nature, 
right? 

569
00:32:30,700 --> 00:32:33,299
Like yeah. 
Like I learned flesh and laying 

570
00:32:33,299 --> 00:32:36,599
in the grass, I could totally 
see that being so helpful for 

571
00:32:36,599 --> 00:32:38,200
athletes. 
All right. 

572
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,000
Used to have one out that I 
worked with that. 

573
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,700
When we met, we would go walk on
the grass with bare feet. 

574
00:32:42,700 --> 00:32:44,400
Mmm, like walk. 
Around the infield. 

575
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:45,900
The track actually walk around 
baby. 

576
00:32:45,900 --> 00:32:48,799
I always enjoyed it all. 
Ya, feel better, you know, it 

577
00:32:48,799 --> 00:32:52,400
does. 
Yeah, yeah I'd support that a 

578
00:32:52,408 --> 00:32:56,599
lot and I should also support 
your friend who looks around in 

579
00:32:56,599 --> 00:32:59,000
the race. 
There's like a pain management 

580
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,700
technique where you like take 
you like check out your pain 

581
00:33:01,700 --> 00:33:05,900
with curiosity and then you take
in the space and then you refute

582
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,000
you check it shipping again with
curiosity but with awareness of 

583
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,599
the space and this kind of back 
and forth use of the attention. 

584
00:33:13,900 --> 00:33:19,299
Tends to minimize Alex to help 
that pain feel like less right 

585
00:33:19,299 --> 00:33:21,400
receive it as less. 
Yeah yeah. 

586
00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:24,200
And that's a technique that we 
actually use in physical therapy

587
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,599
as well. 
Your can become. 

588
00:33:26,599 --> 00:33:30,200
So hyper aware of the part of 
your body that hurts. 

589
00:33:30,599 --> 00:33:33,700
You know, you are ignoring 
everything else around your. 

590
00:33:33,700 --> 00:33:36,700
So even just paying attention to
another part of your body. 

591
00:33:36,900 --> 00:33:39,400
Like, if your right knee is 
hurting while you're running, 

592
00:33:39,599 --> 00:33:42,900
well, think about like your left
elbow or something, totally 

593
00:33:42,900 --> 00:33:44,700
benign. 
And when you shift your 

594
00:33:44,700 --> 00:33:48,099
attention to something else, 
it's amazing. 

595
00:33:48,099 --> 00:33:52,200
How your perception of pain in 
the other area decreases. 

596
00:33:52,599 --> 00:33:54,500
Yes. 
No that's cool. 

597
00:33:54,700 --> 00:33:57,799
Do you you know a lot of our 
listeners are long-distance 

598
00:33:57,799 --> 00:34:01,799
Runners so what would you do? 
I know you touched a little bit 

599
00:34:01,799 --> 00:34:05,200
about on like strategies to kind
of help chunk a marathon? 

600
00:34:05,700 --> 00:34:09,500
But for people who, you know, 
the marathon is so long, right? 

601
00:34:09,500 --> 00:34:14,000
And so much has to go right to 
have, you know, the You'll 

602
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,099
outcome or like the optimal 
outcome. 

603
00:34:16,900 --> 00:34:21,800
What advice do you give to your 
athletes about like the 

604
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,199
different stages of the race? 
Because, you know, the beginning

605
00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:27,400
of a marathon normally feels 
pretty easy and you've got to 

606
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,199
get through that part without 
like pushing too hard, right? 

607
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,199
And it's almost like a waiting 
game for the end of the race 

608
00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:37,699
where it's always going to get 
harder. 

609
00:34:38,099 --> 00:34:43,099
So, how what do you tell your 
long-distance running athletes? 

610
00:34:43,699 --> 00:34:46,900
How to be patient during a 
marathon, how do you help them? 

611
00:34:46,900 --> 00:34:48,900
Do that? 
Then? 

612
00:34:49,099 --> 00:34:51,800
Yeah, the marathons and you say,
it's funny, like I even 

613
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,199
reflecting. 
Even a little 10K in the 

614
00:34:53,206 --> 00:34:56,300
marathon are obviously clearly 
different but the 10K is like, 

615
00:34:56,300 --> 00:35:01,300
the longest track race. 
Yeah, but typically and it makes

616
00:35:01,300 --> 00:35:04,199
me reflect that like the advice 
that I give and then the advice 

617
00:35:04,199 --> 00:35:07,599
that coach a good coat, I've 
heard good coaches give and even

618
00:35:07,599 --> 00:35:10,000
like very good at marathoners 
and 10K Runners. 

619
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,500
I've said is it just want to get
that first chunk done? 

620
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,300
With a little effort and 
thought, like, both emotional 

621
00:35:17,300 --> 00:35:20,699
and physical effort and 
cognitive effort as possibly can

622
00:35:20,699 --> 00:35:24,199
like, get that done. 
So you have as much first part 

623
00:35:24,199 --> 00:35:25,400
done. 
So you have as much left as 

624
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,800
possible at the end later in the
later in the race. 

625
00:35:30,500 --> 00:35:33,300
So I would say how do I help 
them? 

626
00:35:33,300 --> 00:35:38,300
Well, you know, breaking it 
braking the effort into chunks 

627
00:35:38,300 --> 00:35:43,300
and having a focus to keep the 
effort easy that works for the 

628
00:35:43,699 --> 00:35:45,599
Even poor, not one of the best 
metaphors. 

629
00:35:45,599 --> 00:35:49,900
This actually came from my team 
of my any old, NAU athletes, who

630
00:35:49,900 --> 00:35:53,000
has not run a marathon because 
giving advice to his friend, it 

631
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,400
was if he goes, he goes, you got
a sink to the bottom of the 

632
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,599
ocean and like, nobody like 
that. 

633
00:36:00,599 --> 00:36:02,699
Just like, that was felt like 
the end of his energy than that.

634
00:36:02,699 --> 00:36:05,400
So, so that where I'm going with
this is like come up with a 

635
00:36:05,408 --> 00:36:07,699
metaphor or a thong or 
something, that brings the right

636
00:36:07,699 --> 00:36:11,500
feeling into you and your body 
and for him like sink to the 

637
00:36:11,500 --> 00:36:13,599
bottom of the ocean was not the 
right feet. 

638
00:36:13,699 --> 00:36:16,400
The right feeling is like, like,
like, like let go. 

639
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,000
That's yeah, no State, like, 
drop into your page, drop into 

640
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,900
your relaxed pace and then 
slowly rise to the surface. 

641
00:36:23,900 --> 00:36:28,300
Looks like the was the metaphor,
lots of athletes. 

642
00:36:28,300 --> 00:36:32,900
I know, we'll just go break the 
race up and they'll just say the

643
00:36:32,900 --> 00:36:35,300
couple little Mantra like 
relaxed form. 

644
00:36:35,300 --> 00:36:38,300
Fluids relaxed form fluids, like
something. 

645
00:36:38,300 --> 00:36:42,099
Something like, guys always 
very, very low intensity. 

646
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:47,900
My Mike Smith, NAU coach will 
tell them all to go to sleep. 

647
00:36:48,300 --> 00:36:52,800
Uh-huh for however, many miles 
before, like the race begins. 

648
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:59,199
Yeah, so yeah, I'd say a 
metaphor a calming Mantra that 

649
00:36:59,199 --> 00:37:05,199
you use in a pre-planned chunk 
of the for a pre-planned chunk 

650
00:37:05,199 --> 00:37:10,500
of the race and that you 
practice and practice to when we

651
00:37:10,500 --> 00:37:14,699
do these plans for races, we do 
I want to do them about a month 

652
00:37:14,699 --> 00:37:17,800
before hand, so there's several 
workouts that can be done. 

653
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,500
Practicing your focus Ian over 
top of the race. 

654
00:37:22,599 --> 00:37:26,099
I also like machines in the 
marathon in particular, 

655
00:37:26,300 --> 00:37:29,199
personally, really cool with an 
athlete having a paste limit, 

656
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,400
you know, like using their 
watch. 

657
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,599
And sometimes, you know, watches
a touchy thing for some people. 

658
00:37:34,599 --> 00:37:37,800
It depends again, what race and 
good one user don't want to use 

659
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:43,400
it, but I think an athlete 
having a committee to not going 

660
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,300
out. 
Of a certain range earlier in a 

661
00:37:45,308 --> 00:37:48,500
marathons can be a really good, 
really good thing to do, 

662
00:37:48,500 --> 00:37:52,199
especially if they have a habit 
of going too fast early. 

663
00:37:52,199 --> 00:37:55,199
Mm-hmm. 
Yeah, because what the marathon 

664
00:37:55,199 --> 00:37:58,300
is your, it's not, you're not 
going to know that you're early.

665
00:37:58,300 --> 00:38:00,699
Pace was too hard until it's too
late. 

666
00:38:00,900 --> 00:38:04,000
Yes, yeah, let's see your coach.
Yeah. 

667
00:38:09,599 --> 00:38:12,099
Well that's great. 
One more question about 

668
00:38:12,099 --> 00:38:15,300
performance anxiety before we 
With on to talking about injury,

669
00:38:15,300 --> 00:38:19,500
but a lot of people struggle 
with anxiety during workouts or 

670
00:38:19,500 --> 00:38:23,900
even like before workouts, like 
people who, you know, most of 

671
00:38:23,900 --> 00:38:25,699
our listeners are not 
professional athletes. 

672
00:38:25,699 --> 00:38:29,199
So you've got a job, you go to 
work and you're thinking about 

673
00:38:29,199 --> 00:38:32,900
oh I've got that really tough 
workout to do after work like 

674
00:38:32,900 --> 00:38:36,800
how what would you tell someone 
who struggles with that? 

675
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,699
Like how to approach that work 
out? 

676
00:38:39,699 --> 00:38:41,599
How to change their thinking 
about it. 

677
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:43,500
Maybe it's something they 
haven't done before. 

678
00:38:43,599 --> 00:38:47,400
For, or it's the pace that's 
been prescribed as a little bit 

679
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:48,900
harder than they think they can 
do. 

680
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:53,199
How can you calm yourself? 
So you're not stressing about 

681
00:38:53,199 --> 00:38:56,099
it, you know, five hours before 
you're actually doing it. 

682
00:38:56,500 --> 00:39:00,000
Yeah, I think that's such a 
really hard. 

683
00:39:00,500 --> 00:39:02,699
I think it's a really hard 
situation to be in is like, I 

684
00:39:02,699 --> 00:39:05,400
know there's like parents of 
couple children who work, 

685
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,500
full-time jobs and then go do a 
workout after work or get up at 

686
00:39:08,500 --> 00:39:11,099
4:00 to do it. 
Like there's a, there's a rages 

687
00:39:11,099 --> 00:39:15,699
amount of commitment and a lot 
of working professionals towards

688
00:39:15,699 --> 00:39:18,199
their like, towards their 
endurance part, which is, which 

689
00:39:18,199 --> 00:39:24,699
is pretty impressive. 
So, yeah, I think Then I think 

690
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,199
honestly think a little bit of 
acceptance goes a long way here,

691
00:39:29,199 --> 00:39:34,400
you know, like like I think 
somebody who say they have a 

692
00:39:34,408 --> 00:39:36,500
full-time job and then they need
to go do a workout. 

693
00:39:36,500 --> 00:39:41,000
That's going to take two hours 
to get done for more more, from 

694
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,500
warm up to conclusion, you know,
and there may be part way 

695
00:39:43,500 --> 00:39:46,900
through the workday, just just 
just stressing because it's just

696
00:39:46,900 --> 00:39:51,199
feels like a lot is. 
I wouldn't fight that feeling a 

697
00:39:51,199 --> 00:39:53,699
little too much out too much. 
I would I would Give yourself a 

698
00:39:53,707 --> 00:39:57,099
little bit of compassion and be 
like, this thing you're doing is

699
00:39:57,500 --> 00:40:01,900
difficult and it's it is 
challenging is too challenging a

700
00:40:01,900 --> 00:40:04,500
person. 
We do have limits like an 

701
00:40:04,500 --> 00:40:08,099
exertion both in cognitive 
emotional, physical exertion, 

702
00:40:08,099 --> 00:40:12,199
you know, and so it's extremely 
normal understandable to be to 

703
00:40:12,207 --> 00:40:13,699
be part with your work day and 
be like cheese. 

704
00:40:13,699 --> 00:40:15,800
I have a two and a half hour 
workout tonight, like that feels

705
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,300
like a lot. 
That's that's I think that's 

706
00:40:18,300 --> 00:40:23,199
understandable. 
So I think Noticing that and 

707
00:40:23,199 --> 00:40:25,699
accepting it and giving yourself
just like a little bit of like, 

708
00:40:26,500 --> 00:40:28,300
understanding and care for 
feeling that way. 

709
00:40:28,300 --> 00:40:31,800
I think sometimes we don't know.
I think sometimes our distress 

710
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,500
is caused by ourselves. 
Judging ourselves for how we 

711
00:40:34,500 --> 00:40:38,000
feel like somebody could be 
partway through that work day 

712
00:40:38,199 --> 00:40:41,900
and they're like, I have 10 by a
K on the track after work today.

713
00:40:42,500 --> 00:40:44,900
And they're kind of feeling 
stressed and anxious and tense, 

714
00:40:44,900 --> 00:40:46,900
and then they're like, it's not 
that big a deal. 

715
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,900
It's only two and a half laps. 
You just have to attend times. 

716
00:40:49,900 --> 00:40:52,599
You've done this like 300 that, 
you know, you know, I can it 

717
00:40:52,599 --> 00:40:55,500
doesn't matter like it, you 
know, it's only one workout and 

718
00:40:55,500 --> 00:40:59,000
like that's how we like come 
back at ourselves and our 

719
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,699
judgment actually feeds. 
Our Distress. 

720
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:04,800
Hmm. 
Um, so yeah, I think first step 

721
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,800
is like, know what you're doing 
is lots a lot, you know, there's

722
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:09,800
reasons people aren't doing it. 
Yeah. 

723
00:41:10,199 --> 00:41:12,699
If you my dude, it's like, most 
people are going home and 

724
00:41:12,699 --> 00:41:16,000
watching Netflix exactly like 
supposed to be. 

725
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,300
It's hard because it's supposed 
to be hard and yeah, it's okay. 

726
00:41:19,300 --> 00:41:21,199
That you're feeling like it's a 
lot, you know? 

727
00:41:21,199 --> 00:41:23,400
And I didn't feel like that 
step. 

728
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:27,199
Sometimes it will minimize some 
distress because you you but 

729
00:41:27,199 --> 00:41:29,699
we're not always aware were 
judging ourselves our reaction. 

730
00:41:29,699 --> 00:41:33,199
But if we, That's a way of 
letting go of some judgment. 

731
00:41:33,199 --> 00:41:35,699
We might not even know we have 
and then. 

732
00:41:36,099 --> 00:41:41,900
Yeah. 
Like, I personally like like see

733
00:41:41,900 --> 00:41:47,400
what works like for me is just 
like human beings do have limits

734
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:52,500
and the best you can do is the 
best is the best you can do and 

735
00:41:52,500 --> 00:41:57,300
you're going to you're going to 
do that and kind of like trying 

736
00:41:57,300 --> 00:42:00,000
to tell yourself you know 
trusting that you're going to do

737
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,199
that. 
And and then I take commit to 

738
00:42:04,599 --> 00:42:06,000
commit to the appropriate 
effort. 

739
00:42:06,099 --> 00:42:07,599
That's what so many coaches say 
to, right? 

740
00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:09,300
They don't necessarily want 
athlete. 

741
00:42:09,500 --> 00:42:11,599
Saying the effort to hit a 
split. 

742
00:42:11,599 --> 00:42:15,300
They'll say, they'll say, hey 
like this is a, this is a pay 

743
00:42:15,300 --> 00:42:17,199
stranger. 
So you know, I don't want you 

744
00:42:17,699 --> 00:42:21,400
racing the workout, so commit to
the appropriate effort, and 

745
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:26,199
trust you going to do your best 
and and it's in one like one 

746
00:42:26,199 --> 00:42:27,800
interval at a time. 
Yeah. 

747
00:42:30,199 --> 00:42:33,099
Yeah. 
But I think the know the 

748
00:42:33,099 --> 00:42:35,900
overriding thing when I think 
about that scenario is just like

749
00:42:36,099 --> 00:42:39,000
it's so natural. 
That that is hard on people. 

750
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,599
Yeah. 
I'm like yeah, that Prospect is 

751
00:42:41,599 --> 00:42:44,599
hard on people and I think, I 
think what you just said is also

752
00:42:44,599 --> 00:42:50,000
applicable to anyone who has, 
you know, a full-time job or who

753
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,199
is a stay-at-home parent or 
takes care of an elderly family 

754
00:42:53,199 --> 00:42:58,099
member and is trying to be a 
marathon racer. 

755
00:42:58,300 --> 00:43:01,900
Trying to run a certain amount 
every week, like, what we're 

756
00:43:01,900 --> 00:43:06,300
doing is hard and it's good to 
like, give yourself that 

757
00:43:06,300 --> 00:43:09,900
compassion like you said and 
just acknowledge That. 

758
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,599
Yeah, it's it would probably 
feel nicer to go home and lay on

759
00:43:13,599 --> 00:43:17,900
the couch and do nothing, but 
we're choosing to do more than 

760
00:43:17,900 --> 00:43:21,300
that. 
And it's okay for that to feel 

761
00:43:21,300 --> 00:43:24,699
stressful at times. 
But in the end, it's our choice 

762
00:43:24,699 --> 00:43:28,199
and we're doing it because we, 
you know, running is a big part 

763
00:43:28,199 --> 00:43:31,199
of who, you know, what we care 
about and what we enjoy doing. 

764
00:43:31,199 --> 00:43:34,099
So, that's why we're making that
choice to not go flop down on 

765
00:43:34,099 --> 00:43:36,699
the couch when we get out of 
word, know, exactly. 

766
00:43:36,699 --> 00:43:38,099
And I like that. 
You favorite like that? 

767
00:43:38,099 --> 00:43:40,000
And it's also, you're also 
choosing it. 

768
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,800
So you have other choices to 
write your choosing it. 

769
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,300
So you have the choice to go run
a marathon at a certain pace, 

770
00:43:45,300 --> 00:43:47,800
you're choosing it. 
So you have the choice to go to 

771
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:52,800
that cool part of the world and 
run 20K of trails and a park, 

772
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,699
you know, or keep up with your 
kid or you know, like like 

773
00:43:55,699 --> 00:43:58,300
there's all sorts of reasons why
I like that work out at the end 

774
00:43:58,300 --> 00:44:01,300
of the day is hard but you're 
choosing it so that you actually

775
00:44:02,199 --> 00:44:05,199
have the choice to do. 
Other things that people others 

776
00:44:05,199 --> 00:44:08,099
we can't do or you just value it
is even after the matter what 

777
00:44:08,099 --> 00:44:09,300
ability. 
Yeah. 

778
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,900
Yeah, I love that. 
I think. 

779
00:44:12,900 --> 00:44:17,500
I think that'll be very helpful 
for a lot of people so let's 

780
00:44:17,500 --> 00:44:20,800
move on to talking about entry 
and of course, you know people 

781
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,300
might be listening thinking, 
okay injury is a physical 

782
00:44:23,300 --> 00:44:25,900
injury. 
So why are we talking about this

783
00:44:25,900 --> 00:44:27,699
with a mental performance 
person? 

784
00:44:27,699 --> 00:44:30,199
But injury is not just a 
physical injury. 

785
00:44:30,500 --> 00:44:33,199
It has a huge effect on us, 
mentally? 

786
00:44:33,500 --> 00:44:37,300
Right. 
So, can you tell us why exactly 

787
00:44:37,300 --> 00:44:41,900
that is and like, Like, why why 
should a physical injury affect 

788
00:44:41,900 --> 00:44:45,599
our mental health so much. 
And also, if someone is dealing 

789
00:44:45,599 --> 00:44:48,699
with an injury, what are some 
strategies that you would 

790
00:44:48,699 --> 00:44:51,099
recommend to help with their 
mental health? 

791
00:44:51,099 --> 00:44:54,099
During the recovery process? 
Yeah, for sure. 

792
00:44:54,099 --> 00:44:58,599
So yeah, I mean for anybody 
whose You know, for whom their 

793
00:44:58,599 --> 00:45:02,400
sport as a big part of their 
life when we get hurt often 

794
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:06,199
times and that's a big hit to 
regular routines and practices, 

795
00:45:06,199 --> 00:45:08,300
right? 
So it I think, first of all, can

796
00:45:08,300 --> 00:45:11,900
derail activities that we would 
normally do in be doing which we

797
00:45:11,900 --> 00:45:14,300
don't really like that. 
We don't like big disruption to 

798
00:45:14,300 --> 00:45:16,400
our, to our life, and our 
routines. 

799
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:25,199
And and I think, you know, many 
of us have meaningful hopes 

800
00:45:25,599 --> 00:45:29,900
attached to why we're training. 
So it can be like the threat, a 

801
00:45:29,900 --> 00:45:33,199
threat to those hopes or even 
the loss of them, depending on 

802
00:45:33,199 --> 00:45:36,599
the severity of the injury and 
time frame and so on. 

803
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:44,300
And I think, I think and thence 
to reconnect we also many of us 

804
00:45:44,300 --> 00:45:47,199
have a sense of identity and 
value and Community wrapped up 

805
00:45:47,199 --> 00:45:50,500
in those in those hopes you 
know, are being at a certain 

806
00:45:50,500 --> 00:45:53,699
level of Fitness, the wouldn't 
be abnormal. 

807
00:45:53,699 --> 00:45:55,199
I'm guessing there's lots of 
people who are listening to 

808
00:45:55,199 --> 00:45:57,300
this, who are working 
professionals. 

809
00:45:57,500 --> 00:46:00,300
Who have a running. 
Maybe they meet up times a week 

810
00:46:00,300 --> 00:46:02,199
with friend or groups, do a 
workout. 

811
00:46:02,199 --> 00:46:05,500
They have a couple other people.
They meet 5 a.m. to do to go for

812
00:46:05,500 --> 00:46:07,300
a run. 
Everyone's working towards 

813
00:46:07,500 --> 00:46:11,800
Chicago and like, you know, and 
then you get hurt and all of a 

814
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:15,000
sudden, not only, do you not 
have your ritual. 

815
00:46:15,300 --> 00:46:17,900
You're not sure if you're going 
to Chicago, all your friends 

816
00:46:17,900 --> 00:46:20,699
are. 
And so, this is like this, this 

817
00:46:20,699 --> 00:46:23,699
hit to takes a big to take a hit
to our community, and our 

818
00:46:23,699 --> 00:46:25,599
perception of our like social 
belonging. 

819
00:46:25,900 --> 00:46:27,300
So it's like, there's so many 
good. 

820
00:46:27,500 --> 00:46:31,900
Reasons why an injury rocks us, 
you know, it's like your 

821
00:46:31,900 --> 00:46:35,400
routine, your goals, your little
bit value. 

822
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:39,500
Sometimes your community. 
Your friendships can all feel 

823
00:46:39,500 --> 00:46:44,000
like they hang on this thing 
which are like huge human 

824
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:45,599
vulnerabilities, you know, all 
these things. 

825
00:46:45,599 --> 00:46:48,300
So, so, that it has a big 
emotional impact on us. 

826
00:46:48,300 --> 00:46:54,699
This is is really 
understandable, I think. 

827
00:46:56,300 --> 00:47:00,599
The couple alike. 
I think there's a couple of 

828
00:47:01,300 --> 00:47:06,000
inaccurate beliefs that athletes
experience when they're hurt. 

829
00:47:06,099 --> 00:47:07,599
They aren't always even 
conscious. 

830
00:47:07,599 --> 00:47:11,599
But I think they lurk 
emotionally in the bat. 

831
00:47:11,599 --> 00:47:13,500
Just a bad feeling of being 
hurt. 

832
00:47:13,500 --> 00:47:17,000
One of them, one of them is 
somehow I my social my 

833
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:21,199
relationships were threatened, 
that's one and then the other 

834
00:47:21,199 --> 00:47:25,099
one is I'm never going to get 
well and or it's never going to 

835
00:47:25,107 --> 00:47:26,599
get better which is so 
interesting. 

836
00:47:26,599 --> 00:47:30,199
You know, like there's this 
Like, I taught you, you found 

837
00:47:30,199 --> 00:47:33,400
me, see, so many injured 
athletes and I and like, I see 

838
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,300
plenty of injured athletes and 
cic injury. 

839
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:40,699
Occur means so many. 
I think of any athlete I've 

840
00:47:40,699 --> 00:47:43,199
talked to over the past year, 
probably someone's head 

841
00:47:43,199 --> 00:47:45,400
something or a little setback, 
or a big setback, or whatever. 

842
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,300
So, so you can see, injury is a 
natural part of being an athlete

843
00:47:49,300 --> 00:47:54,099
natural part of sport. 
But when it's me or to you, it's

844
00:47:54,099 --> 00:47:57,099
like, whoa, this and this might 
never get better. 

845
00:47:57,099 --> 00:47:59,800
That this is like a A 
significant problem like 

846
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,699
shouldn't have happened. 
That can be like, feeling is, 

847
00:48:02,699 --> 00:48:05,099
it's interesting that, that 
something deep down can believe 

848
00:48:05,099 --> 00:48:07,099
that. 
So I'd say, just kind of like 

849
00:48:07,099 --> 00:48:10,699
asked, like, man, I am, I am I 
feeling socially disconnected? 

850
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,900
Am I feeling fear that? 
This will never resolved, even 

851
00:48:13,900 --> 00:48:17,699
if it's irrational, it helps to 
acknowledge it if it's actually 

852
00:48:17,699 --> 00:48:19,300
happening. 
And then again like offer 

853
00:48:19,300 --> 00:48:22,199
yourself a bit of compassion and
care if that's just a honestly 

854
00:48:22,199 --> 00:48:27,800
just a another Rain reaction to 
threats, like making up your 

855
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,400
stories, that feel true that 
aren't true. 

856
00:48:32,300 --> 00:48:37,699
And then as far as working with 
it, um, I say I really think the

857
00:48:37,699 --> 00:48:41,000
more an injured athlete can stay
involved in their athletic 

858
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:42,500
Community. 
If that's a thing for them. 

859
00:48:42,699 --> 00:48:44,599
The more an injured athlete can 
stay involved with their 

860
00:48:45,099 --> 00:48:47,400
athletic Community. 
By far, the better, some people 

861
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:49,599
will be like, I don't want to go
to the workout, just makes me 

862
00:48:49,599 --> 00:48:53,599
feel sad, but then you add to 
that the social disconnect 

863
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,099
Action and, like, compound for 
yourself. 

864
00:48:56,099 --> 00:48:59,400
When I think a lot of the 
reasons why injuries are hard on

865
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:01,000
people. 
So I'd say, like, say is 

866
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:10,900
socially involved as you as you 
can and, and do your best to 

867
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:15,000
call out that, you know, 
injuries a natural part of being

868
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:16,800
an athlete. 
It's as part of it, I'd say, 

869
00:49:17,500 --> 00:49:19,800
Thomas as much as being, an 
athlete is training and rest 

870
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:22,199
that we have these periods. 
Where something goes a little 

871
00:49:22,199 --> 00:49:24,900
wrong, it's nothing wrong with 
you, it's It is part of the 

872
00:49:24,900 --> 00:49:29,199
sport. 
There's an exercise I do with 

873
00:49:29,199 --> 00:49:32,900
athletes, especially if they are
if it's a lengthy injury or a to

874
00:49:32,900 --> 00:49:35,599
be and we're really not sure how
long it's going to take for it 

875
00:49:35,599 --> 00:49:39,000
to be better. 
And I draw this from the 

876
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,500
psychologist called Viktor 
Frankl, who wrote a book called 

877
00:49:41,500 --> 00:49:44,500
Man's Search for meaning, but he
also wrote a book called the 

878
00:49:44,500 --> 00:49:46,699
will to meeting though you're a 
bunch of books but that's the 

879
00:49:46,699 --> 00:49:49,099
only one I read. 
And he has this method for 

880
00:49:49,099 --> 00:49:53,000
dealing with kind of note like 
like suffering of unknown 

881
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,599
duration. 
Oh, and he's basically says, ask

882
00:49:56,599 --> 00:50:00,800
yourself, what am I going to 
give to this circumstance? 

883
00:50:00,900 --> 00:50:03,699
Like the circumstances, what it 
is, what am I going to give to 

884
00:50:03,699 --> 00:50:04,900
it? 
So, like, we're going to 

885
00:50:04,900 --> 00:50:07,699
contribute, what am I going to 
grow? 

886
00:50:07,699 --> 00:50:10,099
What am I going to use the time 
in a constructive way? 

887
00:50:10,099 --> 00:50:13,800
I guess you could say, for with,
with respect to injury, he'll 

888
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,000
also ask, what am I going to 
allow? 

889
00:50:16,099 --> 00:50:18,099
What am I going to allow this to
give me? 

890
00:50:19,300 --> 00:50:22,199
And that can be a hard one 
sometimes when someone's hurts. 

891
00:50:22,199 --> 00:50:24,500
Like, I don't know. 
The Swimmer. 

892
00:50:24,699 --> 00:50:30,699
But you don't look to go 
Champion. 

893
00:50:31,500 --> 00:50:35,000
Yeah it's be like patients 
about. 

894
00:50:35,099 --> 00:50:37,699
I've also had athletes today 
like man. 

895
00:50:37,699 --> 00:50:40,500
I I kind of I didn't really 
understand what it was like to 

896
00:50:40,508 --> 00:50:42,699
be hurt. 
I really think I haven't been as

897
00:50:42,699 --> 00:50:45,199
curing or compassionate towards 
like my teammates or other 

898
00:50:45,199 --> 00:50:47,699
friends when they've been hurt. 
So I'm going to let it give me 

899
00:50:47,699 --> 00:50:52,500
understanding and then the third
question of that exercise is 

900
00:50:52,500 --> 00:50:55,599
what attitude are you? 
To take what stance would admit 

901
00:50:55,599 --> 00:50:57,000
total stands for you to take on 
this. 

902
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:00,599
So so it could be, you know, 
added to a normal stance of. 

903
00:51:00,599 --> 00:51:05,300
Well, I'm in the injury 
interval, I'm using this. 

904
00:51:05,300 --> 00:51:08,500
I'm going to use this period to 
music. 

905
00:51:08,500 --> 00:51:10,000
Here's a common one. 
Correct. 

906
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,400
Some like, physiological 
weakness. 

907
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:16,699
So you cannot have any exercises
and I guess. 

908
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:25,699
He is wasting away to grow 
another area. 

909
00:51:25,699 --> 00:51:29,500
So that's one stance as opposed 
to, I see it as a tragedy. 

910
00:51:29,500 --> 00:51:33,400
My dreams are over. 
And why am I so messed up about 

911
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:35,300
this? 
And so, treaties is the most 

912
00:51:35,300 --> 00:51:37,099
important. 
One is to choose your attitude 

913
00:51:37,099 --> 00:51:40,599
on the, the meeting of the 
circumstance. 

914
00:51:40,900 --> 00:51:44,199
Yeah, I love that. 
And I have personally 

915
00:51:44,199 --> 00:51:47,900
experienced all of those about 
10 years ago when I was still 

916
00:51:47,900 --> 00:51:51,599
bike racing, I had a neck injury
and I couldn't ride as it ended 

917
00:51:51,599 --> 00:51:57,199
up for a year and You know, like
I said, cycling was my life and 

918
00:51:57,199 --> 00:52:01,000
my identity and it was very 
devastating to not be able to 

919
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:05,400
ride and eventually, you know, I
was fortunate to have a friend 

920
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:09,000
who happens to be a sports 
psychologist, so she she 

921
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:12,599
definitely helped me out but you
know, one of the biggest things 

922
00:52:12,599 --> 00:52:17,699
was staying connected to the 
community and you know, I had no

923
00:52:17,699 --> 00:52:22,599
desire to go, watch a bike race 
or be involved at all in a bike 

924
00:52:22,599 --> 00:52:26,400
race. 
But my friend said to me, she I 

925
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:29,400
had mentioned that another 
friend had asked me to coach her

926
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,699
and I had I thought that was the
dumbest idea ever. 

927
00:52:32,699 --> 00:52:36,300
Like I was in a coach, I didn't 
want to be a coach, I'm a bike 

928
00:52:36,300 --> 00:52:40,300
racer, you know, and then she's 
like, well, why not? 

929
00:52:40,300 --> 00:52:44,000
You would be a great coach and, 
you know, I thought about it and

930
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:47,300
it took me awhile and I was 
like, okay, I'm going to do 

931
00:52:47,300 --> 00:52:49,300
that. 
Because at least then, like I'm 

932
00:52:49,300 --> 00:52:53,000
still part of the cycling world,
I can share my knowledge with 

933
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:56,099
someone else. 
It's so I took my friend on as a

934
00:52:56,099 --> 00:53:00,300
coaching client and it it made 
all the difference in the world 

935
00:53:00,599 --> 00:53:03,900
to because it's still made me 
feel like I was part of the 

936
00:53:03,900 --> 00:53:08,500
community and I was sharing my 
knowledge and experience with 

937
00:53:08,500 --> 00:53:10,800
her and celebrating her 
victories. 

938
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,099
So I definitely agree like 
whether it's you know if you're 

939
00:53:15,099 --> 00:53:17,199
a high school or college 
athlete, you're still go to 

940
00:53:17,199 --> 00:53:21,000
practice, you still go to all of
the meats if you're, you know, 

941
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:25,900
just you know, Who likes to run 
and now your Camp. 

942
00:53:26,199 --> 00:53:28,599
Maybe your can't run with your 
friends but it's still go meet 

943
00:53:28,599 --> 00:53:30,699
them for coffee after their run.
Yes. 

944
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,099
Or like if you can walk but you 
can't run. 

945
00:53:34,099 --> 00:53:36,900
Maybe you're running friends 
will like come walk with you on 

946
00:53:36,900 --> 00:53:40,300
their easy days like find a way 
to stay connected, for sure. 

947
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:45,400
And absolutely it like, for me, 
it was all about like finally, 

948
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:50,599
like stopping being. 
So, like down on myself, like I 

949
00:53:50,599 --> 00:53:53,800
can't ride. 
Like everything sucks and Like 

950
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:56,800
changing my mindset to I can't 
ride. 

951
00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:00,000
So I need to figure out 
something else and like as you 

952
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:04,400
know doing that it like it freed
me and I actually got to the 

953
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,400
point where I was like well 
maybe I'm not going to be able 

954
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:11,800
to ride again and I was actually
okay with that and it wasn't 

955
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:15,000
soon after that that I actually 
like got to the point where I 

956
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:19,000
could start writing again, but I
feel like buddy you know, I had 

957
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:23,599
to get to that point where I was
okay, not being a cyclist. 

958
00:54:23,699 --> 00:54:25,900
Steny more. 
And I think that that has 

959
00:54:26,300 --> 00:54:28,400
actually helped me even with my 
running. 

960
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:34,000
Now, like I don't have to have 
running, I don't have to have 

961
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:40,099
cycling, I love them but I don't
you know, I'm not so dependent 

962
00:54:40,099 --> 00:54:44,500
on them like I used to be and 
like it was all about changing 

963
00:54:44,500 --> 00:54:47,400
how I thought about things. 
Yes, yeah. 

964
00:54:48,599 --> 00:54:50,500
No, man, you got some experience
with this. 

965
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:55,199
Yes, unfortunately. 
But you know, the other thing I 

966
00:54:55,199 --> 00:54:59,900
wanted to bring up as a PT. 
I think one of the hardest 

967
00:54:59,900 --> 00:55:03,000
things for people is when 
they're dealing with their first

968
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,699
major injury. 
So maybe you're dealing with a 

969
00:55:05,707 --> 00:55:10,900
teenager who, you know, tore 
their ACL or they have a stress 

970
00:55:10,900 --> 00:55:15,599
fracture and like they've never 
seen that you can recover from 

971
00:55:15,599 --> 00:55:19,099
being hurt like this or and I 
mean, There are some adults who 

972
00:55:19,099 --> 00:55:22,000
have never been injured and 
their first major injuries when 

973
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:26,199
they're in their 30s or 40s. 
And again, it's just they have 

974
00:55:26,199 --> 00:55:28,800
no experience with the recovery 
process. 

975
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:34,300
So they just think it's over and
helping them to understand. 

976
00:55:34,300 --> 00:55:38,599
Like like your said, injury is 
basically a part of running. 

977
00:55:38,599 --> 00:55:42,099
Like the statistics are like the
vast majority of Runners are 

978
00:55:42,099 --> 00:55:43,699
going to get injured at some 
point. 

979
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:48,699
So it's not if but when and then
when it does Happen to an 

980
00:55:48,699 --> 00:55:51,699
individual, helping them deal 
with it. 

981
00:55:51,699 --> 00:55:53,900
Both from a physical 
perspective, and from a mental 

982
00:55:53,900 --> 00:55:58,099
perspective and I think, you 
know, People's Community can 

983
00:55:58,099 --> 00:56:01,199
play a big role. 
So if one of your friends is 

984
00:56:01,199 --> 00:56:04,400
injured and you can't run, you 
know, they can't run with you 

985
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:07,900
anymore, make sure to like still
invite them for coffee or, you 

986
00:56:07,900 --> 00:56:09,199
know, the walk with them or 
whatever. 

987
00:56:09,199 --> 00:56:13,699
Like, help them stay part of the
community because then when it's

988
00:56:13,699 --> 00:56:16,900
your turn to be that injured 
person, you know, maybe your 

989
00:56:16,900 --> 00:56:18,900
friends will do the same. 
Same thing for you. 

990
00:56:19,099 --> 00:56:22,800
Yeah, yeah for sure. 
So, can we talk a little bit 

991
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:26,599
about when somebody's finally 
ready to return to their sport? 

992
00:56:26,599 --> 00:56:30,699
It's so common for people to be 
actually fearful of going back 

993
00:56:30,699 --> 00:56:33,900
to training because they don't 
want to get injured again. 

994
00:56:34,300 --> 00:56:38,699
So one, they're like they're 
afraid to do the thing that 

995
00:56:38,699 --> 00:56:42,800
caused their pain, whether it 
was like running on Hills or 

996
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:47,099
doing track work, or you know, 
doing a certain type of strength

997
00:56:47,099 --> 00:56:50,500
training, whatever, A 
attributed, their injury to 

998
00:56:51,199 --> 00:56:55,199
their a little bit afraid of it.
How do you help people get over 

999
00:56:55,199 --> 00:56:56,900
then? 
Like what? 

1000
00:56:57,400 --> 00:56:59,300
Yeah. 
What techniques work for you? 

1001
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:01,300
Yeah. 
Well, tell you, one thing that 

1002
00:57:01,300 --> 00:57:04,800
I've fascinated about the, you 
would definitely know more about

1003
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:06,800
than I do. 
But I always intended to learn 

1004
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,599
is like, essentially, like pain 
Theory and like, some of the 

1005
00:57:09,599 --> 00:57:11,199
there are logical element to pay
in. 

1006
00:57:11,199 --> 00:57:15,099
Like what, how you physios work 
with people's perception of pain

1007
00:57:15,099 --> 00:57:17,800
when sun area is supposed to be 
healed, but the brain doesn't 

1008
00:57:17,900 --> 00:57:20,199
Trust that right? 
And the name that you just. 

1009
00:57:20,199 --> 00:57:24,000
I feel like I could ask ask you 
about that but we're not right 

1010
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:25,800
now. 
We're not really talking about 

1011
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:29,800
paying that. 
Is not a say not real or not, 

1012
00:57:30,300 --> 00:57:32,500
reflective of damage. 
Let's say we're not talking 

1013
00:57:32,500 --> 00:57:34,300
about that. 
We're talking about them just 

1014
00:57:34,300 --> 00:57:39,500
being afraid. 
Yeah, I would say probably 

1015
00:57:42,500 --> 00:57:45,500
Couple things on that. 
I think the first thing I'd 

1016
00:57:45,500 --> 00:57:50,099
probably bring up again is the 
the brains negativity bias and 

1017
00:57:50,099 --> 00:57:56,099
it's tendency to see the worst 
likelihood and the worst 

1018
00:57:56,099 --> 00:57:59,599
possibility and ambiguous 
unknown situations. 

1019
00:58:00,900 --> 00:58:04,000
So I would just, you're probably
ask somebody like me. 

1020
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:05,099
What like what's your thought 
process? 

1021
00:58:05,099 --> 00:58:06,699
How are you feeling? 
And what's your thought process 

1022
00:58:06,699 --> 00:58:09,800
before you go to that workout or
before you go to that round like

1023
00:58:09,900 --> 00:58:12,099
what are you? 
What are you believing? 

1024
00:58:12,300 --> 00:58:14,599
How does it? 
How does it feel in your body? 

1025
00:58:14,599 --> 00:58:17,000
Because we all know we often 
talk about that. 

1026
00:58:17,500 --> 00:58:21,599
And then we'll talk about how 
like, hey, like your doctor, 

1027
00:58:21,599 --> 00:58:24,400
your physio your coach, we have 
every reason to believe, like 

1028
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:30,800
you're okay to start doing a 
workout stay or doing a run, and

1029
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:33,000
I might point out like, hey, 
like our brain has a tendency to

1030
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:35,800
have a negativity bias and means
it predicts the worst and then 

1031
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:40,300
biggest an unknown situation. 
And so I don't know that your 

1032
00:58:40,300 --> 00:58:44,000
mind is telling you, the Like 
the right thing and we're pretty

1033
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:48,000
much invite them to challenge 
that, you know, and probably we 

1034
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:50,900
talked about their options and 
their choices and usually 

1035
00:58:51,699 --> 00:58:54,000
usually where they're at is if 
they don't get training pretty 

1036
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:57,099
soon, they're gonna like lose 
out on some opportunity, you 

1037
00:58:57,099 --> 00:58:59,500
know, and they'll like, they'll 
acknowledge that. 

1038
00:58:59,500 --> 00:59:04,400
So yeah, just just try to look 
at the evidence of acknowledge 

1039
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:06,800
how they feel. 
Look at the evidence, talk about

1040
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:09,699
how the brain works, ask them, 
what are your choices. 

1041
00:59:11,099 --> 00:59:14,300
And then I think, Create a plan 
to take it one step at a time, 

1042
00:59:14,300 --> 00:59:15,699
you know. 
Like like we will do first 

1043
00:59:15,699 --> 00:59:18,599
terrible and see how it feels 
and if it still feels OK, we'll 

1044
00:59:18,599 --> 00:59:20,800
do one more. 
There's no commitment to doing 

1045
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:23,599
the whole thing or produce a one
mile. 

1046
00:59:23,599 --> 00:59:25,199
And then, yeah, these three 
mouth. 

1047
00:59:25,199 --> 00:59:31,000
Yeah, it's a commitment to two, 
to one, to one step up to one 

1048
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:35,599
step at a time and Yeah, it's 
understand. 

1049
00:59:35,599 --> 00:59:39,500
It is understandable, though. 
It's some that she went athletes

1050
00:59:39,500 --> 00:59:43,300
can experience so much struggle 
with their mental health around.

1051
00:59:43,300 --> 00:59:45,599
Injuries is don't want to end up
back there, right? 

1052
00:59:45,599 --> 00:59:49,199
Like it's so distressing and 
hard for them, so yeah, yeah, 

1053
00:59:49,199 --> 00:59:50,900
yeah. 
Just one step at a time. 

1054
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:52,500
One mile. 
See how it goes. 

1055
00:59:52,900 --> 00:59:55,199
That Mi was good. 
Go on to the next mile. 

1056
00:59:55,900 --> 00:59:59,699
Yeah, kind of how you would 
chunker race, right? 

1057
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:04,099
Yeah. 
Is it is I think like sometimes 

1058
01:00:04,300 --> 01:00:07,199
So, it's funny what fear can do,
too, because, like a typical 

1059
01:00:07,199 --> 01:00:09,699
scenario as maybe a place a 
college athlete. 

1060
01:00:09,699 --> 01:00:12,000
Calm. 
And I like, I've had a hamstring

1061
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:15,800
issue and, you know, coached his
first coach Smith says, I should

1062
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,699
do the threshold workout today, 
but I'm really not sure. 

1063
01:00:18,699 --> 01:00:21,300
It's okay like it feel, it felt 
fine for a week, but I'm not 

1064
01:00:21,300 --> 01:00:23,599
sure, it's okay. 
And there's this perception. 

1065
01:00:23,599 --> 01:00:27,199
I have to do the whole thing and
it's like, yeah, not necessarily

1066
01:00:27,199 --> 01:00:33,000
like, yeah, yeah, good. 
And I like that. 

1067
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,500
Yeah, that's those are And tips.
Thank you. 

1068
01:00:36,900 --> 01:00:40,500
One more question regarding 
injury and I guess just identity

1069
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:43,699
and, you know, I talked a little
bit about, like, what I 

1070
01:00:43,699 --> 01:00:46,699
experienced with my cycling 
injury, but I think it's so 

1071
01:00:46,699 --> 01:00:50,800
common no matter what sport or 
what hobby or involved with. 

1072
01:00:50,900 --> 01:00:54,199
We tend to strongly identify 
with what we do, whether we're 

1073
01:00:54,199 --> 01:00:58,300
Runner or where, you know, we 
make quilts, or we ride horses 

1074
01:00:58,300 --> 01:01:01,400
or whatever, like, that's a big 
part of our identity, right? 

1075
01:01:01,500 --> 01:01:05,199
And it's good to have, you know,
a strong My identity, but when 

1076
01:01:05,199 --> 01:01:08,900
you derive too much of your 
identity or self-worth from one 

1077
01:01:08,900 --> 01:01:12,300
thing you're kind of setting 
yourself up for a problem if 

1078
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:18,900
that event, that activity gets 
taken away for reasons of injury

1079
01:01:18,900 --> 01:01:23,699
or just life or whatever. 
So do you talk to your athletes 

1080
01:01:23,699 --> 01:01:27,300
about like the importance of 
cultivating, an identity outside

1081
01:01:27,300 --> 01:01:30,199
of their Sport? 
And if so like how do you, how 

1082
01:01:30,199 --> 01:01:33,000
do you help them do that? 
And I know a lot of your 

1083
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:36,300
athletes are Athletes. 
So that's like a whole different

1084
01:01:36,300 --> 01:01:39,199
ballgame because they really are
their sport. 

1085
01:01:39,199 --> 01:01:42,500
That's their profession. 
But at the same time they have 

1086
01:01:42,500 --> 01:01:46,400
other identities right there. 
Somebody's spouse or daughter 

1087
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:49,199
friend. 
And, you know, they might have 

1088
01:01:49,300 --> 01:01:51,300
other hobbies that they enjoy 
doing. 

1089
01:01:51,300 --> 01:01:56,699
So I guess how do you help 
people be more than just 

1090
01:01:56,699 --> 01:02:00,400
Runners? 
That's a really Huxley hard, 

1091
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:03,900
quite like hard Topic in a way. 
I think I have a few different 

1092
01:02:03,900 --> 01:02:08,199
angles. 
Owls on it, as far as answering 

1093
01:02:08,199 --> 01:02:14,199
that question. 
I, I think that a lot of the 

1094
01:02:14,199 --> 01:02:20,000
reason people identify so like 
rigidly to sport sometimes is 

1095
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:24,500
because sport has served some 
sort to be some sort of coping 

1096
01:02:24,500 --> 01:02:28,199
mechanism or safe space 
throughout their life, 

1097
01:02:28,199 --> 01:02:30,800
throughout their except for your
other child or throughout their 

1098
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:34,099
lives. 
So, so maybe sport was a place 

1099
01:02:34,300 --> 01:02:37,300
Where they perform. 
Well, their parents are happy 

1100
01:02:37,300 --> 01:02:41,099
and they had stuff to talk about
and or maybe they had a great 

1101
01:02:41,099 --> 01:02:44,400
relationship with coach and when
the they perform well they can 

1102
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:46,699
feel that connection or maybe it
was. 

1103
01:02:46,699 --> 01:02:50,400
The one thing that they were 
able to be admired for in high 

1104
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:53,300
school or in college. 
So I think a lot of our reason 

1105
01:02:53,300 --> 01:02:58,500
our identity is tied to sport is
because it served a purpose and 

1106
01:02:58,500 --> 01:03:02,800
helping us cope or Thrive or 
feel confident or say like in 

1107
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:07,599
our in our Bringing. 
So, the way that I usually go 

1108
01:03:07,599 --> 01:03:10,000
with an athlete who's 
struggling, with I with identity

1109
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:13,000
and I'm realize, I'm starting, 
I'm I'm not talking proactively 

1110
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:16,699
here, I'm talking kind of 
struggling with what's a ball 

1111
01:03:16,699 --> 01:03:19,699
start with that is kind of 
understanding. 

1112
01:03:19,699 --> 01:03:23,099
What factors might have caused 
the athlete to identify so 

1113
01:03:23,099 --> 01:03:28,099
strongly with with their score 
and the more that they can 

1114
01:03:28,099 --> 01:03:30,300
understand those factors, like, 
look back on their past and 

1115
01:03:30,300 --> 01:03:33,599
understand those factors often 
times the less. 

1116
01:03:34,300 --> 01:03:38,000
Their attachment feels like 
necessary or like necessary or 

1117
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:40,500
critical, you know. 
Oh man, that's understandable. 

1118
01:03:40,500 --> 01:03:43,599
Like like really the best time I
ever had with my dad was when I 

1119
01:03:43,699 --> 01:03:47,199
ran fast, you know, and like it.
And that's understandable why I 

1120
01:03:47,199 --> 01:03:49,500
feel like why there's this 
heightened emotion around it and

1121
01:03:49,500 --> 01:03:52,199
I feel like I need it. 
So understanding that actually 

1122
01:03:52,199 --> 01:03:56,500
can help to kind of loosen it 
and help someone to be open to 

1123
01:03:56,500 --> 01:04:03,199
who else they could be. and then
as far as, as far as like 

1124
01:04:03,199 --> 01:04:10,099
growing it, I think, It's funny.
I've never had any sad like 

1125
01:04:10,099 --> 01:04:13,800
never had any success trying to 
get someone to like 

1126
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:15,599
intentionally grow their 
identity? 

1127
01:04:15,599 --> 01:04:19,000
If they don't like naturally, if
they're not actually drawn to 

1128
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:21,199
something, which is a bit 
unfortunate, right? 

1129
01:04:21,199 --> 01:04:23,300
Like you kind of like we should 
be like, what else do you like 

1130
01:04:23,300 --> 01:04:24,599
o? 
God for move out? 

1131
01:04:24,599 --> 01:04:25,699
Birds. 
Uh-huh. 

1132
01:04:25,699 --> 01:04:29,199
And then, you know, a lot of the
a lot of the athletes, I know 

1133
01:04:29,199 --> 01:04:32,900
the really a lot are interested 
in other things genuinely, but a

1134
01:04:32,908 --> 01:04:38,099
lot aren't really bad and so 
Definitely with the ones that 

1135
01:04:38,099 --> 01:04:41,500
have even an inkling of another 
sort of Interest, I like get 

1136
01:04:41,500 --> 01:04:44,400
enthusiastic about it and feed, 
it want to know more about it 

1137
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:48,900
and like, express my opinion 
that it has value and encourage 

1138
01:04:48,900 --> 01:04:50,699
them to develop Community around
that thing. 

1139
01:04:50,699 --> 01:04:54,199
Because when they can see that 
others value, the thing they're 

1140
01:04:54,199 --> 01:04:56,699
interested in Bell, value it 
more and so, it'll naturally 

1141
01:04:56,699 --> 01:05:00,599
expand their comfort level with 
having a broader identity. 

1142
01:05:03,699 --> 01:05:09,800
But some yeah, I really think 
especially with young athletes. 

1143
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:12,500
I say young, I mean anything 
under, well, meanwhile the young

1144
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:17,199
so I stopped, just just anytime 
somebody else, validates the 

1145
01:05:17,199 --> 01:05:21,599
value of your other interest or 
expresses that they value other 

1146
01:05:21,599 --> 01:05:28,199
things equal to or more than 
sport that helps you that helps 

1147
01:05:28,300 --> 01:05:30,800
us. 
So I'd say yeah, the way that I 

1148
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:33,900
help. 
Try to help me with the most is 

1149
01:05:34,599 --> 01:05:38,300
communicate, many interests. 
Communicate, many values. 

1150
01:05:38,300 --> 01:05:42,400
Praise them for the praise them.
Ask questions be interested in 

1151
01:05:42,500 --> 01:05:44,199
elements of them outside of 
running. 

1152
01:05:44,300 --> 01:05:48,099
Yeah, encourage them to spend 
time doing things outside of 

1153
01:05:48,099 --> 01:05:49,300
running that they genuinely 
enjoy. 

1154
01:05:49,500 --> 01:05:53,099
Some people have a belief, they 
just can't have other interests.

1155
01:05:53,199 --> 01:05:55,800
And if they have other 
interests, they don't care, or 

1156
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:57,900
they're settling or less 
intense. 

1157
01:05:57,900 --> 01:06:01,000
And there's a quick belief 
around that, which isn't true, 

1158
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,099
right? 
So sometimes we discover that, 

1159
01:06:03,099 --> 01:06:06,300
you know, but just like, yeah, 
like I have like one athlete who

1160
01:06:06,300 --> 01:06:08,900
completely likes to play the 
guitar and I like, hey like for 

1161
01:06:08,900 --> 01:06:12,300
your, for your the sake of your 
racing, play your guitar more, 

1162
01:06:12,300 --> 01:06:14,599
right? 
Like so side time for that, you 

1163
01:06:14,599 --> 01:06:18,699
know, be I find it. 
Genuine change my experience. 

1164
01:06:18,699 --> 01:06:22,099
It has to be something that they
are genuinely passionate about 

1165
01:06:22,199 --> 01:06:24,099
me, like, look for the little 
spark of that. 

1166
01:06:24,099 --> 01:06:26,300
Then you had a seat Mmm. 
Yeah. 

1167
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:31,300
So I guess if somebody listening
was like, oh yeah, running is 

1168
01:06:31,300 --> 01:06:35,599
pretty much my And I should like
try to think about what where 

1169
01:06:35,599 --> 01:06:39,000
those other Sparks are and maybe
try to cultivate them would that

1170
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:40,900
be your advice? 
Definitely. 

1171
01:06:40,900 --> 01:06:42,400
Yeah. 
Sparks you think about ways. 

1172
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:45,400
You can get involved with other 
people around them that could be

1173
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:49,400
one or another thing is just to 
notice things that you already 

1174
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:52,800
do there to revalue that used by
not be valuing you know like 

1175
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:55,300
like maybe you're really good at
your job regardless of what your

1176
01:06:55,308 --> 01:06:57,199
job is. 
Maybe you're a really good 

1177
01:06:57,199 --> 01:06:59,400
parent. 
Maybe you're you know or like 

1178
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:02,000
try really hard like doing this 
really hard job. 

1179
01:07:02,099 --> 01:07:06,599
Above parents. 
You know these things are I 

1180
01:07:06,607 --> 01:07:08,199
mean, these are enormous 
important. 

1181
01:07:08,199 --> 01:07:09,400
You know, it's funny. 
This might be a bit 

1182
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:12,099
controversial, but like one I 
haven't brought this up a lot, 

1183
01:07:12,300 --> 01:07:15,199
but I will at some point, I know
some athletes, but I really 

1184
01:07:15,199 --> 01:07:18,500
think sport is, like, it's kind 
of an art form. 

1185
01:07:18,500 --> 01:07:21,199
You know, are like, art from 
sport is an art form alongside 

1186
01:07:21,300 --> 01:07:27,099
music and painting, and Etc. 
And sport is like a symbol of 

1187
01:07:27,599 --> 01:07:30,199
stretching and courage and hard 
work and persistence, you know? 

1188
01:07:30,300 --> 01:07:32,199
But it's a Sim like it's a 
symbol. 

1189
01:07:32,199 --> 01:07:34,500
And one of the things I 
sometimes think about sport is 

1190
01:07:34,500 --> 01:07:36,199
like, it's something athletes 
do. 

1191
01:07:36,300 --> 01:07:39,099
Do. 
In this kind of artificial 

1192
01:07:39,099 --> 01:07:43,199
environment, you know, like like
that this matters in the real 

1193
01:07:43,199 --> 01:07:44,500
world. 
It's been an artificial 

1194
01:07:44,500 --> 01:07:46,599
environment. 
It's a con, it can be a 

1195
01:07:46,607 --> 01:07:48,300
contribution. 
So that people who are doing 

1196
01:07:48,300 --> 01:07:52,099
things in life that objectively 
probably matter, bit more like 

1197
01:07:52,599 --> 01:07:56,099
you have a sick kid at home, 
you're, you're running a 

1198
01:07:56,107 --> 01:07:57,800
non-profit. 
That's really helping people 

1199
01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:01,000
like, you know, gives it's a 
simple as it's a symbol for 

1200
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:02,400
people who are doing things in 
the world. 

1201
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:06,900
So like Take courage in the area
of and thing they're doing in 

1202
01:08:06,900 --> 01:08:08,900
their life, you know. 
It's it's it's an art form to 

1203
01:08:08,900 --> 01:08:11,599
inspire, right? 
So what other art forms do you 

1204
01:08:11,599 --> 01:08:15,300
have in your life that are 
actually have equal or greater 

1205
01:08:15,300 --> 01:08:17,600
value than sport, being a parent
being as fast as being like 

1206
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:20,000
whatever you do in your life? 
You know, like we just don't 

1207
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:24,000
value and we don't value other 
things as much sometimes, right?

1208
01:08:24,100 --> 01:08:25,500
Yeah. 
I love that. 

1209
01:08:25,500 --> 01:08:29,399
That's such a great description 
and it's so true. 

1210
01:08:29,399 --> 01:08:32,698
Yeah, we the things that we 
place the greatest value on or 

1211
01:08:32,707 --> 01:08:33,600
not. 
Always the things. 

1212
01:08:33,698 --> 01:08:37,000
Things that have the greatest 
value in the end, right? 

1213
01:08:37,300 --> 01:08:39,600
No, no, I'm not that they're not
valuable. 

1214
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:40,500
Yeah. 
Awesome. 

1215
01:08:40,500 --> 01:08:44,500
And we should feel proud if we 
can keep your, you know. 

1216
01:08:45,698 --> 01:08:47,399
Yeah. 
Those are really awesome to do. 

1217
01:08:47,500 --> 01:08:50,300
But yeah, we don't, we don't 
give ourselves credit for all of

1218
01:08:50,300 --> 01:08:52,600
the other awesome and hard 
things. 

1219
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:55,300
We do that. 
You know, don't involve getting 

1220
01:08:55,300 --> 01:08:59,500
a metal or like you know, a cool
Strava post or whatever. 

1221
01:08:59,500 --> 01:09:02,300
Exactly. 
Yeah well it's and you say that 

1222
01:09:02,300 --> 01:09:04,899
I think I think you know as a 
society Eddie we've kind of done

1223
01:09:04,899 --> 01:09:10,198
it to ourselves like we we the 
way we treat the way we view, 

1224
01:09:11,100 --> 01:09:14,500
good athletes from yeah, we 
idolize them quite a lot, right.

1225
01:09:14,500 --> 01:09:17,899
So we haven't like there's a 
greater Society. 

1226
01:09:17,899 --> 01:09:21,600
We haven't done a great job of 
helping us in that way. 

1227
01:09:23,399 --> 01:09:26,600
Yeah yeah. 
Thank you for those thoughts 

1228
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:29,500
that I think that'll be helpful 
for a lot of our listeners. 

1229
01:09:30,899 --> 01:09:33,500
Do you have any closing thoughts
for Alyssa? 

1230
01:09:33,698 --> 01:09:38,000
Nurse just if somebody is 
interested in talking to you or 

1231
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:41,698
talking to somebody who does 
what you do, how do I mean, 

1232
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:44,500
we're going to put Shannon's 
contact information in the show 

1233
01:09:44,500 --> 01:09:50,100
notes but is there like a 
database of mental performance, 

1234
01:09:50,100 --> 01:09:54,100
Consultants where people can go,
what should people look for? 

1235
01:09:54,399 --> 01:09:59,600
Yeah, there's a organization a 
US based organization called 

1236
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:04,800
American applied sport, 
psychology Association, I 

1237
01:10:04,808 --> 01:10:10,500
believe. 
Um, and you can like that is an 

1238
01:10:10,500 --> 01:10:15,899
organization that basically like
certifies and helps educate and 

1239
01:10:15,899 --> 01:10:19,399
also provide or provide access 
to mental performance, 

1240
01:10:19,399 --> 01:10:21,600
consultants and Sport 
psychologist around the country.

1241
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:23,199
So, that's a good place for 
people. 

1242
01:10:23,199 --> 01:10:25,699
If you want to try to find 
someone near you, or maybe have 

1243
01:10:25,699 --> 01:10:29,000
a little bit Choice as to places
to find people or even are 

1244
01:10:29,000 --> 01:10:31,399
interested in the field, it's a 
Good. 

1245
01:10:31,399 --> 01:10:35,500
It's a really good resource for 
finding people in the field. 

1246
01:10:37,500 --> 01:10:42,899
And yeah, when it comes to 
working with anyone in funny, I 

1247
01:10:42,899 --> 01:10:46,000
say, in particular, like mental 
health mental performance by but

1248
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:49,000
it's true and everything like is
your everything the degree to, 

1249
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:51,399
which you connect with the 
person is actually like the most

1250
01:10:51,399 --> 01:10:54,800
important thing. 
So you can look at credentials 

1251
01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:57,000
and accomplishments and 
testimonials and all that. 

1252
01:10:57,100 --> 01:11:00,899
But but really the deciding 
factor for any of us working 

1253
01:11:00,899 --> 01:11:04,000
with the professional. 
Like that is like, do I feel 

1254
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:07,000
safe and comfortable and 
understood and do I look forward

1255
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:08,399
to Talking with them. 
So, yeah. 

1256
01:11:08,399 --> 01:11:13,300
That would be like my number one
tip for finding a probably 

1257
01:11:13,300 --> 01:11:15,699
professional anything. 
But in my field anyway or like 

1258
01:11:15,699 --> 01:11:17,300
everything's working again. 
Yeah. 

1259
01:11:17,300 --> 01:11:20,399
Even for PT so much of it is 
about finding someone you have a

1260
01:11:20,399 --> 01:11:24,000
rapport with because if you 
don't if you don't trust that 

1261
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:26,100
person or if you can't 
communicate well with that 

1262
01:11:26,100 --> 01:11:29,899
person you're probably not going
to get the most out of your time

1263
01:11:29,899 --> 01:11:33,500
together or snow. 
Yeah, Yeah. 

1264
01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:37,100
Well thank you, everyone. 
Thanks Shannon. 

1265
01:11:37,300 --> 01:11:40,600
So much for coming on. 
This has been a great episode. 

1266
01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:43,899
Like I said, we'll put all of 
Shannon's contact info in the 

1267
01:11:43,899 --> 01:11:47,500
show notes. 
For our listeners, you can find 

1268
01:11:47,500 --> 01:11:53,399
us on YouTube, Instagram, 
Facebook, LinkedIn, or wherever 

1269
01:11:53,399 --> 01:11:56,899
you get your podcast, please 
leave us a review, it really 

1270
01:11:56,899 --> 01:12:01,699
helps us out to grow. 
And as always, if you have any 

1271
01:12:01,699 --> 01:12:04,800
questions or comments, leave 
them in the comments or you can 

1272
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:08,800
send us an email at doctors of 
Young at gmail.com. 

1273
01:12:09,500 --> 01:12:13,399
Thanks so much Shannon for 
taking time out of your day to 

1274
01:12:13,500 --> 01:12:18,800
talk with me and thanks again. 
My pleasure, thank you for 

1275
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:19,399
having me.