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Hello, everyone, and welcome to 
the Doctors of Running podcast, 

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where we, a group of doctors of 
physical therapy, discuss the 

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art and the science of the stuff
we're putting on our feet. 

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I'm Andrea Meyers, and today 
I've got David Salas with us. 

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And hey David, it's been a while
since we've done an episode 

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together. 
Yeah, it's been a minute. 

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It's good. 
It's good. 

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I like our episodes together, 
and this is good. 

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Yeah. 
So today David and I thought we 

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would talk about racing shorter 
distances and what shorter 

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distances means to us might mean
something different to you. 

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So we're going to define what we
mean by shorter, talk about the 

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energy systems involved, talk 
about training, of course, talk 

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about the shoes that we like for
shorter distance racing. 

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So let's get right into the 
subjective. 

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So of course it's a question 
about shoes. 

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So we want to know what's your 
favorite shoe for running fast? 

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Just leave that in the comments.
We love to hear your input on 

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what your favorites are. 
All right, David, so I'm going 

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to let you take the first 
question. 

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So what the heck do we mean by 
shorter distance racing? 

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What are we talking about here 
today? 

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Yeah. 
And that's kind of a loaded 

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question, right? 
Like depending on who you're 

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talking to, I think running is 
running is such a beautiful 

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sport because of the massive 
variety of distances and 

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different, you know, energy 
systems, body types, like 

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athletes, like people. 
There's just like anything from 

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like the 60 meters indoors to 
like 100 mile races. 

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It is a foot race of people 
running, right? 

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Like, So what is short? 
That is a loaded question. 

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But I think some people, if 
you're more of a track purist 

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and you're looking at it from a 
physiologic standpoint, some 

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people might even argue it's 400
meters in town, which is not 

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really what we are going to be 
talking about as. 

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Much. 
But that would be the purest 

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like track, you know, like those
are your sprints events, right? 

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But I would argue in terms of 
energy systems and what our 

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crowd usually as we're most of 
our audience is probably 5K and 

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up, I would imagine. 
But I would, I would say pretty 

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much anything 1500 and down with
the caveat that sometimes even 

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the 5K for some people can also 
dip into that as far as being a 

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quote UN quote shorter distance 
because there is such a high 

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lactate production. 
And that is a concern with how 

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quick you're moving and how fast
that is producing and why it is 

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important to pace yourself. 
So Amen to that. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah, for those of you that 

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don't know, Andrea went out in 
an 800 and but what what was it 

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was 64 is that. 
What you split? 

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They they said the split was 64,
which was horrifying. 

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It was 66. 
Turned out to be 66 still. 

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Flying. 
Yeah. 

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I don't even know, like if I ran
an 800 right now if I'd be going

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out in 66. 
That's a lie. 

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I'd probably do the same exact 
thing and go out hard. 

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Yeah, 64 was my 400 PR in high 
school, so when they said our 

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split was 64, I was like, uh oh.
But I just got to hang on. 

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You're already in it at that 
point. 

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Yeah, what are you going to do? 
And it reminded me of the 1000 

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deaths. 
You can die in the last 400 of 

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an 800, but I still ran a 225 
which wasn't Yeah, which is 

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good. 
It's was a 5 second lifetime PR,

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so you can't complain too much 
about that. 

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But there are less painful with 
2/22/25. 

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It reminds me in college where 
there'd be a lot of people that 

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would just like go out in a 52 
and then run like O 1:53 or 1:54

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and I'm just like, that must 
hurt like to just. 

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Oh my gosh, your. 
Last laps over 60 seconds, we 

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were still running decent times,
but you're just like. 

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Right. 
That's got to be awful. 

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Going to run a 52 first thing. 
Like that's my PR. 

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My 400 PR is 52, so I can't 
imagine going out in a 52, you 

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know, like that would be nice. 
Yeah, the 800 is such an 

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interesting event though, 
because it's one of the only 

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events I mean besides the 400 
where you really you do have to 

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positive split it to. 
Yeah, we're we're pretty close 

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to even. 
Yeah, yeah, it's 1 does not 

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simply negative split an 800. 
No, definitely. 

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Not I'm trying to think, 
although Nick Simmons has done a

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few really, really good evenish 
split races where it's like I'm 

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thinking like back in like prime
David Rudisha era where like, 

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you know, he's running 141. 
He still has the world record. 

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No 1140. 
Yes. 

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Yeah, I think so, yeah. 
Yeah. 

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But like he would go out in like
50 and then run a 52, right? 

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Like and it's like that's pretty
even. 

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Yeah, that's impressive. 
Yeah. 

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And. 
Then you'd have guys like 

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Simmons running an opening lap 
of 52 and dead last and then 

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running another 52 and running 
144 and having a great day and 

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placing, you know, or like even 
in the case where he, I mean, he

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ran 142 in one of those races 
that was the Olympic final when 

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we're just around the world 
record. 

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And that was, I think that was a
5151 if I'm not mistaken. 

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It might have maybe that was 
close to negative. 

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I don't know. 
Yeah, yeah, would be really. 

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But it's not common. 
It's not. 

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Yeah, it's not common. 
Although I think it will be 

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interesting to see if it becomes
more common now that more 800 

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runners are using bicarb, like 
now that Morton has that product

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that you know, theoretically 
doesn't destroy your stomach. 

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Right. 
People have been using bicarb 

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forever though. 
Yeah, but. 

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Their home. 
Concoctions are accessible 

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because of the. 
Whatever Morton did to it, they 

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encapsulated it so it doesn't. 
Yeah. 

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Cause awful, Yeah. 
Distress, that's always been the

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big gripe with like the 
buffering agents. 

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It's like, yeah, that's an 
interesting point. 

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Are we are we talking about that
stuff today? 

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We're we're not talking about 
drugs. 

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No, no drugs, OK. 
No, but Bicarb's not. 

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Not illegal. 
Not. 

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Illegal, but it's it's a drug. 
I mean taking something. 

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Soda. 
Yeah, I know, I know. 

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Yeah, yeah, Sodium bicarb or 
sodium citrate or yeah, all 

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kinds of stuff people use. 
Yeah. 

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But yeah, yeah. 
All right, that is a tangent. 

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For another time, the supplement
episode with Jen child. 

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So yes, all right, So what? 
Maybe, David, I actually don't 

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even know this answer. 
Like when you were in high 

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school and college, what were 
your main events like? 

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Did you go all the way down to 
the 8 or were you more of like a

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fifteen 5K guy or what? 
Yeah, that's a great question. 

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I don't talk about it much. 
Yeah, I'm too scarred. 

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No. 
This is a safe space here. 

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This is a safe space. 
Talk about it, yeah. 

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We're both in the corner of a 
route, yeah, enclosed in a tight

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space, talking to another. 
He doesn't say yeah in high 

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school. 
So I mean, I don't think it's 

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that much of A secret. 
In college, I was a little bit 

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of an injured mess. 
I would race very OK, but I was 

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kind of, for the lack of a 
better word, kind of chronically

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underperforming. 
I would say I, I, I would think 

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I, I would, I would think my 
coaches would agree with that 

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even, you know, however many 
years later, I think tennis 

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years later. 
But in high school I was 

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primarily a cross country 
runner. 

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So I ran, I ran 4/24 in the 
1600, which wasn't bad, but it 

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wasn't great. 
And especially by today's 

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standard, shoot, I don't even 
know what's good anymore. 

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But yeah. 
But you didn't have super shoes 

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back then. 
Yeah, no. 

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Yeah. 
I was riding in the flimsy 

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little, you know, the Brooks 
wire had just come out. 

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Do you remember that track spike
or? 

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No, yeah. 
This was like in that latency 

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period where like I think Klein 
and I are the only ones that 

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know of this shoes existence on 
our team. 

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Yeah, well, yeah, that was 
super, super. 

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Thin, little like thick wire, 
not thick, thin wiry like 

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outsole with like a spike plate 
on the front. 

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But yeah. 
So I, I mainly did cross 

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country. 
I think I, I ran 1456 I think as

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a high schooler, not full 5K. 
That was a three mile cross 

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course. 
But and, but I couldn't break. 

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I think my PR in the 32 is 
probably like 9:40-ish. 

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And I think when I broke 15 for 
the first time, I split like 948

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or something, you know what I 
mean? 

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Like so it was I couldn't like 
quite figure out the two mile. 

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So I wasn't that good at it. 
And then the mile you don't, 

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there's not much time to think. 
You're just kind of racing. 

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So I think that helped. 
But when I got to college, this 

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is like a deep dive history I 
was not expecting today. 

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This I started off. 
The viewers are here for it 

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though. 
Yeah, yeah, I think we got to 

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college and then obviously cross
countries in the fall. 

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So that that went first. 
And I actually didn't have that 

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bad of a freshman year. 
I ran 2025 flat in the 8K, but 

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that was kind of the start of 
when all of the injuries started

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coming on later in that season. 
And so I actually had a little 

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tear in my perennial like at the
end of the season and I was just

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like constantly like racing, 
taking like a week off and like 

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getting ready 'cause you usually
race bi weekly in a collegiate 

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cross setting. 
And so it's like every other 

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week. 
So it got to that kind of not so

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fun cycle of like, OK, race, 
take some time off, kind of get 

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good to get off again to race 
and then take some time off. 

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And then, you know, 
retrospectively probably not the

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best idea, but it tore like 
during the NCA regional, which 

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was like crazy. 
Like I, so I just remember being

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like in Seattle, WA, like 
running this course and like we 

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went through 4 miles I think in 
like 19 like high nineteens. 

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So I would have been on pace for
I don't know, we could do the 

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math. 
It's a 10K in NCA cross. 

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So probably like 30-1 something,
you know, maybe 32. 

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And I think I finished like it 
tore like not that long after. 

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So I think I came through 8K 
like in 26 something which is 

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falling really far off of the 
pace that I was on for that 2K. 

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And then I think I finished the 
race in like 34 low. 

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I think I beat like, I think I 
beat like 3 people or four 

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people. 
Oh my gosh. 

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It was getting to the point. 
Like I remembered like race 

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officials trying to get me to 
step off the course and I'm 

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like, no, I'm gonna finish. 
Because it was just like, like 

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my foot was like failing me. 
Like I was literally like 

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stepping on the ground and then 
like my leg would collapse and I

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had 7 then collapsed and like, 
so I'm just powering off my left

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leg basically for 2 miles. 
But anyways, I kind of started a

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longer cascade of stuff and I 
kind of would have like some 

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stress reaction, stress fracture
type stuff. 

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Like I was kind of riddled with 
injuries kind of the rest of my 

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collegiate career. 
So that wasn't exactly the most 

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ideal either that I probably 
wasn't taking the most care of 

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myself from a nutritional 
standpoint either or from a 

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stress or from other stuff. 
I was, I, I was like super 

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invested in like pretty much 
everything I was doing. 

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And so it was good because it 
kind of got me to where I got as

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quick as I did. 
But at the same time it my 

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running definitely kind of 
suffered there. 

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So that's a long story to say 
that like I I never really got 

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in good shape to run a good 
cross country season again 

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really or a good like 5K for 
that matter. 

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I think I just basically would 
run like low fifteens the rest 

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of my career at that point. 
And like I would run mostly 

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1500s because it was, which is 
kind of a nice segue into the 

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conversation today because it's 
like mileage didn't have to be 

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quite as high. 
You can kind of work into some 

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things. 
And you know, I, I think I got 

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down to I think 354 a few times,
which is OK. 

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You know, it was good enough to 
get me into the Mount SAC relays

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and I was good enough to make 
some races. 

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And you know, we would do the 
double, which we'll talk about, 

224
00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:14,760
you know, later today. 
But where you basically, it's 

225
00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,520
not uncommon for people to go 
run Mount SAC in the morning and

226
00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,080
then go run Brian Clay at Azusa 
Pacific in the evening. 

227
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,960
And so doing some of those races
and kind of stuff like that. 

228
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:32,280
So I kind of became more of like
just a 1500 guy by default. 

229
00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:34,960
I, I ran 8 hundreds, but I 
wasn't good at them. 

230
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:40,160
You know, I, my PR in high 
school, I think for the 400 was 

231
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,240
probably like, it was pretty 
soft. 

232
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,480
It was like 56 maybe, which is 
not that good. 

233
00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:51,760
And then in college it finally, 
I also like way, way back step 

234
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,320
here, but I, I also like, I 
think I was from a physical 

235
00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:59,960
standpoint maturing as well. 
So I, I think out of do you know

236
00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:03,680
this, that I was two years ahead
in school? 

237
00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:06,280
No, Yeah, no. 
See, that's why I asked this 

238
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,200
question, because I don't, I 
actually don't know any of this 

239
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:09,840
about you either. 
So. 

240
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:15,040
Yeah, yeah, People are like, how
are you doing what you're doing?

241
00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,240
Yeah, I, so I have the weird 
birthday where I kind of started

242
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,760
a year early anyways, but I, I 
skipped a grade on top of that. 

243
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:26,280
So I was, people were having to 
buy cough medicine for me for my

244
00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,840
first 2 1/2 years of college. 
You know, I couldn't go and my, 

245
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:31,440
my roommates would have to get 
me things. 

246
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,960
And so, and yeah, I graduated 
before I was 21. 

247
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:41,560
And so like, I think I, I kind 
of grew too. 

248
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,880
And I think my body had a lot of
stuff going on on top of other 

249
00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:47,080
all the other stuff I was going 
on. 

250
00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,440
So it wasn't the greatest time 
from an athletic experience, but

251
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,520
where was I going with that? 
Oh, the speed kind of started to

252
00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,000
develop. 
Like I then I got my 400 down to

253
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,480
about 52 being a distance boy, 
right? 

254
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,000
So it's not, it's not amazing, 
but it's not horrible, you know.

255
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,320
And then like in some of those 
fifteens for those that are kind

256
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,440
of in that 3:50-ish crowd, like 
a lot of those races will go out

257
00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,120
pretty hard, but then they'll 
slow down tremendously over the 

258
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,600
second and third lap and then 
it'll just be a fast bell lap. 

259
00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,760
And so it's like that actually 
came in handy because like, 

260
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,400
sometimes I would win races just
by closing in like a 59 or a 60,

261
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,880
and then like, you just somehow 
magically have a 355 or 

262
00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:29,560
something. 
You know, like, I was like, how 

263
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,200
did that math work? 
Huh. 

264
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,200
OK, sure. 
Whatever go through, you're 

265
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:35,800
done. 
Yeah. 

266
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:42,120
Yeah. 
So, yeah, but so I kind of just 

267
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:47,320
mostly was 1500 in college. 
I mean, I'd run like some lobe 

268
00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:52,840
25 ish, 8 KS, like more mid, 
probably like 25 twenties, maybe

269
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:58,560
25 thirties here and there. 
But yeah, I just, it wasn't 

270
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,440
ideal, you know. 
So I, I never really was in 

271
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:08,080
great shape to hit the, to have 
the adaptations to hit a truly 

272
00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:13,440
hard 5K or 8K in a way that that
I knew my body was capable of 

273
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:18,480
doing. 
So yeah, I think I probably 

274
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,280
would have, I probably would 
have excelled more at the 3K and

275
00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,600
5K and those types of distances.
Probably not as much 10K at that

276
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:27,080
time. 
I think I was still kind of on 

277
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,320
the younger side. 
And I don't know if I was if I 

278
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,640
had the maturation to lock in 
for 25 laps. 

279
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:40,000
But I, yeah, I think that's kind
of largely why I was more of a 

280
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,040
1500 runner. 
So I was kind of a 1500 by 

281
00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,280
default. 
I don't know if I necessarily, 

282
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:49,120
if it was my my best event 
because I could kind of run for 

283
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,320
a month and a half and then go 
run low fifteens, you know, 

284
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,200
like, so I probably have more 
potential there to do something 

285
00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:55,880
beyond that. 
Yeah. 

286
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,600
But yeah, I don't know. 
That's all. 

287
00:16:58,600 --> 00:16:59,840
That's all. 
Shoulda, coulda, woulda though. 

288
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,160
You know, that's awesome. 
Sure, and what's fun is you can 

289
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,760
still race those distances now, 
right? 

290
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:10,079
And yeah, isn't your 5K time 
faster now than it was in? 

291
00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:13,119
Yeah, yeah. 
I mean yeah, like what, 8-9 

292
00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,760
years after college or ran a 
1440 something so. 

293
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,400
Yeah, that's awesome. 
But yeah, yeah, I think, and 

294
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,280
even now, I mean, that 1440 was 
like a massive negative split. 

295
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,880
I think the last 1600 was like 
right around 4. 

296
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,200
It was like low four 30s because
my last 800 was under 210. 

297
00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,240
So it was yeah. 
So there's still some stuff in 

298
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:39,360
the tank, but yeah, it's, we 
don't get that many 

299
00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:41,560
opportunities to go go for it 
though, right? 

300
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:45,280
Like, and then like when you are
truly in the shape to attack a 

301
00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:49,200
hard distance, I think with the 
marathon and some of the longer 

302
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:53,360
distances, there's so much of A 
rhythm piece of like the paces 

303
00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:56,280
themselves aren't that fast. 
There's like a saying that we 

304
00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,440
always say like, oh, like that 
pace isn't fast. 

305
00:17:59,960 --> 00:18:05,200
It's just hard to sustain it 
sustaining. 

306
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,320
It. 
So it's like if you go and run 

307
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,920
like, I don't know, let's say a 
70 minute half marathon is about

308
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,600
5:20-ish miles. 520 is not that 
fast for someone who's looking 

309
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,920
to run that time. 
You just got to run 13 of them. 

310
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:20,960
Yeah. 
So this is the training changes 

311
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:22,720
a little bit and the goal 
changes a little bit. 

312
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,520
So but in the case of a 5K, 
right, like you only have 3 

313
00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:28,920
miles. 
So if you go out and you're, you

314
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,280
know, 10 seconds off pace, 
you're going to have to cut that

315
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:35,960
time off somewhere. 
So the margin for error is I 

316
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:40,520
think a little bit tighter. 
But if you can close well and 

317
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,320
you're tough and you can and 
you're a good racer, you can 

318
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,480
always make that time up over 
the last K or so, Which is I 

319
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,720
think another blessing in that 
race, that the swings can be 

320
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:52,840
more drastic, but they can 
happen over a much shorter 

321
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,720
period of time. 
Whereas like, if you fall, if 

322
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,080
you have a few bad miles and a 
half and then you got to just 

323
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,040
slowly grind out, you know, and 
cut it down and cut it down and 

324
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:02,800
cut it down because you can't, 
you're not going to just race it

325
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,880
back without being fried for the
next 10K, right Or whatever. 

326
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,920
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
I feel like the 5K, if you go 

327
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,960
out slow you can make it up. 
If you go out too fast you're 

328
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,600
just out of luck. 
Like there's no coming back from

329
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,440
going out too fast in a 5K. 
Yeah. 

330
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:24,040
And yeah, I mean, have you, have
you done it on? 

331
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:25,680
Oh yeah, have you, have you done
it on? 

332
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:27,080
Yeah. 
Have you done it on a track? 

333
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:29,560
I've never raced the 5K on the 
track. 

334
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:30,160
Actually. 
Death. 

335
00:19:30,360 --> 00:19:32,800
Death on the track in a 5K is 
brutal. 

336
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:34,640
It's because you've just got to 
keep. 

337
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,320
Going you just keep going and 
you're by yourself like because 

338
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,480
usually if you fall because in a
track race they almost always 

339
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,000
seed you I mean, yeah, you're 
doing them right now. 

340
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,720
So everyone has pretty good 
seated times close to each 

341
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:47,840
other, right? 
So if you fall off the wheel 

342
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,840
like it's just you and you're. 
Just it's just sad. 

343
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,240
You're just miserable. 
And just finishing, yeah. 

344
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:56,840
Yes. 
But when you are in it, it's 

345
00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:58,960
pretty fun. 
It's like, yeah, it's kind of 

346
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,640
exhilarating, especially if 
you're in it's a wedding like in

347
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,120
the last couple laps. 
Right. 

348
00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:07,880
And that benefit of like being 
in a group that's maybe pulling 

349
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,880
you along at a faster pace than 
you could do like in a time 

350
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,840
trial on your own is huge. 
Too, Yeah. 

351
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:19,200
But yeah, I think that'll say. 
Questions. 

352
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:23,000
Yeah. 
So so basically David and I came

353
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,360
up with this topic mainly I 
think I suggested actually, 

354
00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:29,720
because, you know, people who 
have listened to the podcast for

355
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,880
the past couple years know I've 
been focusing mainly on the 

356
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,160
marathon, but I kind of got 
tired of beating my head against

357
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,960
the wall with that and I decided
it was time to try some like 8 

358
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,200
hundreds and miles. 
So that's what I've been doing 

359
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:43,960
all winter and having a lot of 
fun. 

360
00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:48,000
So and people had asked me like,
oh, your training must be really

361
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,880
different. 
Like can you guys talk more 

362
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:52,240
about that? 
So here we are. 

363
00:20:52,640 --> 00:21:00,080
So maybe we can segue into the 
different energy systems and 

364
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,000
that are involved in shorter 
races. 

365
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,720
And I think one of the big 
misconceptions is that shorter 

366
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,320
races are just, you know, quote 
UN quote anaerobic and that. 

367
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,320
Not the case at all. 
Turns out not to be the case. 

368
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,240
So can you tell our listeners 
about the different energy 

369
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,880
systems, you know, when they're 
active and like maybe the 

370
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,280
percentages if you know them, 
like for the 8th, the mile? 

371
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,880
I used to man, when I, when I 
was an X phase night back in the

372
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:31,040
day like that, that I, I used to
know that the percentages 

373
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:32,600
roughly I don't off the top of 
my head. 

374
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,520
So if anyone has those and one 
wants to comment them or if do 

375
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,240
you, or if you know them, I'd 
love to hear them. 

376
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:39,920
Yeah, I've got them here. 
Yeah. 

377
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,240
Going off of the general energy 
systems though, some people 

378
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,200
refer to it as what they call 
bioenergetics. 

379
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,800
Like you've got three main 
energy systems for creating 

380
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:54,480
energy. 
One is your ATPCP pathway, which

381
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:56,960
is basically your immediate 
sources of energy. 

382
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:01,760
So within your tissue you have 
these kind of ATP stores. 

383
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,880
We'll just use ATP kind of as 
energy, quote UN quote that are 

384
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:06,680
already there. 
They're quick acting. 

385
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,120
If you need them, they're there.
That's your baseball swing, 

386
00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:11,640
that's your tennis swing. 
Like that's like a lot of your 

387
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,360
quicker motions. 
You need to do something right 

388
00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:16,360
now. 
So that's your store to do it. 

389
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,800
The great thing is that it's 
very quick and it is very 

390
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:24,520
efficient, but it only lasts for
about 10 seconds. 

391
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:29,200
And so like unless you're 
running the 100m and under 10 

392
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:34,000
seconds, it's like that's about 
the extent of that energy 

393
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,000
system. 
So the the fail safe for that 

394
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:40,200
because obviously there are 
events longer than that are the 

395
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,480
other pathways. 
And so you have glycolysis, 

396
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,000
which is essentially the 
breakdown of carbohydrates for 

397
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,200
energy. 
And then you have oxidation or 

398
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,760
beta oxygen or whatever the heck
one wants to call it. 

399
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,920
There's a million names for it, 
but I'm using fats, lipids also 

400
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,240
like also carbohydrates, but 
using an aerobic metabolism base

401
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:00,720
for it. 
So you have an anaerobic and an 

402
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,040
aerobic side of it. 
And so in the anaerobic side, 

403
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,360
you're basically looking, we'll 
just start with anaerobic 

404
00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:10,600
glycolysis here. 
So glucose basically 6 carbon 

405
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,800
chain molecule cuts it in half. 
It comes into these two 

406
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,320
molecules that are called 
pyruvate. 

407
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,280
And in this situation you don't 
have the oxygen to pump that 

408
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,960
into the mitochondria for an 
oxidative response. 

409
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,960
So what it does is it takes this
thing called NADH and it 

410
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,440
basically like strips the 
hydrogen that you get these by 

411
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,600
product of the HP you're trying 
to produce with this stuff. 

412
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,680
And it clings it on onto a 
molecule called lactate. 

413
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,200
And lactate is, I feel like it's
such a taboo word. 

414
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,160
Everyone always says lactate, 
like, Oh my God. 

415
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,360
But like, lactate's not a bad 
thing. 

416
00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:49,520
It's a buffer, right? 
So like we were talking about 

417
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,960
bicarbonate earlier. 
Bicarbonate helps buffer the pH 

418
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,920
of things. 
And that's why in events like 

419
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,800
the 800, it's as effective as it
is. 

420
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:02,120
But lactate essentially helps 
you clear away that hydrogen and

421
00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:05,360
then gets moved over and then 
that gets reprocessed elsewhere,

422
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:08,840
right? 
You can use lactate as fuel. 

423
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:10,840
Yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, there's pathways for that.

424
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,440
Totally. 
It'll just get kicked back in 

425
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,920
and your body will do stuff with
it up until you hit a threshold,

426
00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:20,280
which is your lactate 
thresholds. 

427
00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:24,600
That is where things are not so 
fun anymore when you go beyond 

428
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:30,120
that. 
And so that is a very, but that 

429
00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:32,080
that for the lack of things, 
that's your anaerobic 

430
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,080
metabolism. 
I don't want to go too, too much

431
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,120
into the weeds there. 
Aerobic metabolism. 

432
00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:39,440
So we'll start off with the 
glycolytic side of it. 

433
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,680
So again, glycolysis breaking 
down of glucose like basically 

434
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,480
and glycogen. 
So glycogen I didn't mention 

435
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,640
that is also stored primarily 
skeletal muscle in the liver. 

436
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,200
So there are also stores readily
available to help break sugar 

437
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,160
down for you. 
That's kind of the idea. 

438
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,200
So when you're carb loading and 
stuff like that, that's what 

439
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,280
you're essentially trying to 
build up a little bit so that 

440
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,680
you have more stores. 
If you don't have the stores, 

441
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,680
you got your blood sugar. 
Not ideal. 

442
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:03,640
That's called bonking if it goes
too far. 

443
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,120
But we have all kinds of fail 
safes for this stuff. 

444
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:11,600
But when it goes into the 
aerobic cycle, then it goes into

445
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,240
what we have this thing called 
the Krebs cycle. 

446
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,240
It's really long. 
It's somewhat complicated, but 

447
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,400
it spits out, you know, energy. 
But it's a lot longer and it 

448
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,800
takes a while to do it. 
So when you're doing some of 

449
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,160
these shorter distance races, 
it's going to be a combination 

450
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,680
of both. 
None of this acts in isolation 

451
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,120
and then same thing with the 
fats beta oxidation, breaking it

452
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:33,640
down the lipids and then 
stringing it out and taking the 

453
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,280
triglycerides. 
Boom, boom, boom. 

454
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,320
Break it, put it in, do its 
thing, spit that, spit out some 

455
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,880
ATP for you. 
Like I, I, I don't feel the need

456
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:47,040
to go into the major details of 
that, but at the end of the day,

457
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,760
you get energy and there's some 
byproducts along the way. 

458
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,760
The one that's the most relevant
here in the shorter distances is

459
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:57,560
going to be lactate. 
But that is also a huge, huge 

460
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,160
marker to look at for the longer
distance races to being, you 

461
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,200
know, your 1500, your 5K and 
even the marathon, right? 

462
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,360
Like you're going to have 
fluctuations in paces. 

463
00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:09,400
And if if you dip a little too 
deep into the well, there's not 

464
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,280
much coming back after that. 
And so like that's why you see 

465
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:18,680
people place so much emphasis on
lactate thresholds and, and it 

466
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,080
is you are able to measure it 
via blood. 

467
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,160
You can prick it and have little
lactate measurements. 

468
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,960
And yeah, it's usually measured 
in minimals per liter. 

469
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,760
But those are essentially the 
three different energy systems. 

470
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,880
And so you're primarily you're 
not going to be using the 

471
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:37,280
phosphogen one much that's like?
Kind of, that's what. 

472
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:38,960
Gets you off the line, gets you 
off the line, yeah. 

473
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,960
And then you're going to have 
kind of a a mix between aerobic 

474
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:47,960
and anaerobic glycolysis and 
also breaking down of the 

475
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,880
lipids, so. 
So I looked it up before our 

476
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,400
episode, and of course, 
depending on which research 

477
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,840
study you read, the percentages 
will be different. 

478
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,280
And it differs whether you're 
talking about elite athletes, 

479
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,400
elite males, elite females. 
But for elite males in the 800, 

480
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,840
it's 60% aerobic, 40% anaerobic,
which like, I think a lot of 

481
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:10,640
people. 
Yeah, yeah. 

482
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,640
So for the anaerobic, I'm so 
glad you brought that up. 

483
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:18,040
I just don't mean to cut you 
off, but it's the, I didn't 

484
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:19,720
mention that. 
So yeah, for your phosphagen 

485
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:24,480
system, it's about 10 seconds. 
For your anaerobic glycolysis, 

486
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,640
you're looking at roughly 2 
minutes and that's Max. 

487
00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:30,320
Like so like unless you're 
running sub two, even if you're 

488
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,640
running sub two in the 8, it's 
going to be a mix. 

489
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,360
Like you said, it's going to be 
kind of a 64. 

490
00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:38,560
Your body doesn't want to die. 
So like, it'll find ways to 

491
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,200
share the energy load. 
Yeah. 

492
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,080
And those all three of those 
energy systems start working at 

493
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,360
the same time. 
It's just glycolysis takes a 

494
00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:49,320
little longer and the aerobic 
system takes even longer to 

495
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,160
actually get up and running. 
Yeah. 

496
00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:56,600
Yeah. 
So, yeah. 

497
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:01,160
So the 800, you know, looking at
elite males, sixty, 4060% 

498
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:07,960
aerobic, 40% anaerobic, 1500 is 
77% aerobic, 23% anaerobic. 

499
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:13,080
So really the 15 and the miles 
mostly an aerobic race and and 

500
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,120
the 3000 even more so 86 
percent, 14%. 

501
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,280
So basically anything over the 
400 is using the aerobic system 

502
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,440
to supply the majority of 
energy. 

503
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:29,680
Talking about like timelines, 
glycol, well, the phosphogen 

504
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,120
system and ATP are immediate, 
like as soon as you start off 

505
00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:35,680
the line, like that's what gets 
you moving. 

506
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,840
Glycolysis takes about 20 to 30 
seconds to reach its Max 

507
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,040
capacity. 
And like David mentioned, it 

508
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,720
lasts up to two minutes. 
Some studies have found it only 

509
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,920
lasts about 90 seconds. 
So again, depending how good of 

510
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,680
an 800 runner you are, that 
could be. 

511
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:52,680
You know, yeah. 
Yeah. 

512
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:59,120
So like for me running 225, I'm 
even more shifted into that 

513
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:05,360
aerobic unit percentage then you
know, the Keely Hodgkinson, 

514
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,000
right, Who's, you know, 40 
seconds faster than me, almost 

515
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:10,240
30 seconds. 
Faster. 

516
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,600
She's faster than my car, I 
think. 

517
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:18,120
I think I've run 156 one. 
Yeah, And what, she's like 155? 

518
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,400
Yeah, Yeah, she's amazing. 
But I I wasn't. 

519
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,160
An person. 
If you were, then you. 

520
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,280
If I would no, no. 
She's she's bald, she's so good.

521
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,720
So you know, David mentioned 
with the aerobic system that the

522
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,040
Krebs cycle is well is involved 
and because it's a multi step 

523
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,720
process, it takes longer to 
occur. 

524
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,080
So like when you get off the 
line and erase, it's taking 

525
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,640
about 90 to 120 seconds to reach
its maximum capacity. 

526
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:57,280
So all three systems start up, 
but each one is maximally active

527
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,400
at different points in the 
timeline of your race, right? 

528
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:06,080
But basically, if your race is 
longer than 92120 seconds, the 

529
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,040
vast majority of it is going to 
be fueled by your aerobic 

530
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:10,640
system. 
Yeah. 

531
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,560
Yeah, and David mentioned 
lactate and you know everybody's

532
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,680
heard about lactate thinks 
lactate is bad like lactate is 

533
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,280
why my muscles hurt after I do a
hard workout. 

534
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,600
Lactate really gets a bad rap 
and we really know now that it 

535
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:32,560
is not one the cause of muscle 
soreness. 2 it like I said, it 

536
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,880
can actually be used as a fuel 
source in certain pathways and 

537
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,480
because of that it can actually 
delay fatigue if you train your 

538
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,600
body to better utilize lactate. 
That's what if you've heard the 

539
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,000
term lactate shuttling, that's 
what that is like. 

540
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:53,080
Your glycolysis system produces 
lactate and then it is shuttled 

541
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:57,120
elsewhere and enters a different
pathway and can be used as fuel.

542
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:02,280
But the reason why lactate is so
useful to measure is because the

543
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:07,000
things that do cause muscle 
soreness and increase fatigue, 

544
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:12,480
like increased hydrogen ions and
a subsequent decrease in pH, are

545
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,320
almost exactly correlated with 
blood lactate levels. 

546
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:20,440
And it's easier to measure blood
lactate than to measure like 

547
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,520
blood pH. 
So that's why, you know, any 

548
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:29,320
professional runner and a lot of
recreational runners are using 

549
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:34,640
lactate monitors to either set 
their training zones, use them 

550
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,240
during their workouts to make 
sure that they're training at a 

551
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:42,040
intensity that is at whatever 
target lactate level they're 

552
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,600
aiming for. 
So basically lactates, not bad. 

553
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,560
It's, you know, it's gotten a 
bad reputation, but it is quite 

554
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:55,000
useful to measure because of its
correlation with hydrogen ions 

555
00:31:55,000 --> 00:32:02,520
and a decrease in the blood pH. 
1000% Is there a difference 

556
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:06,520
between how much lactate 
production is produced across 

557
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:11,640
different various distances? 
So of course, so if you think 

558
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:18,080
about a 400 or an 8A event, a 
shorter event where your 

559
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:24,560
glycolysis system is a greater 
percentage of the total energy 

560
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,640
contributor, you're going to 
have astronomical lack blood 

561
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,600
lactate levels. 
And actually a way to figure out

562
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:38,240
part of your lactate curve is to
run like a maximum like 400 to 

563
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,680
600 meter effort and then take 
blood lactate readings for like 

564
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,600
the next 6 to 8 minutes. 
And like your blood lactate will

565
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,360
continue to increase for minutes
after finishing that. 

566
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:55,960
That's why you feel so terrible 
after running a 400 for so long 

567
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,640
afterwards, because like your 
blood lactate levels continue to

568
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,960
go up even though you've stopped
moving. 

569
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,960
So yes, you're in shorter 
events. 

570
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,560
If you took blood lactate 
readings for minutes afterwards,

571
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:14,240
you would see much higher values
after like a 400, a 600 and 800 

572
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:19,040
than you would even after like a
1500 or a mile because of the 

573
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,040
different proportion of 
contribution from that 

574
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,040
glycolytic system as compared to
the aerobic system. 

575
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:26,800
That's. 
A great answer, I couldn't have 

576
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,200
said it better myself. 
Look at us, harkening back to 

577
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:35,560
our exercise Physiology day. 
I know man, I'm pretty sure I 

578
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,720
got like a permanent little dot 
here from just getting pricked 

579
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:40,760
in that left index so many 
times. 

580
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:42,240
I'm not kidding. 
But. 

581
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,080
My bachelor's is in molecular 
biology, so I feel like at some 

582
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,680
point I did actually have the 
Krebs cycle memorized, but I 

583
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,520
can't tell you like how long 
that stayed in my brain. 

584
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,560
It certainly. 
Has not. 

585
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:05,760
Lasted, you know, 20 plus years 
later, I know, but it was there.

586
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,360
But but do you know that the 
mitochondria is the powerhouse 

587
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,080
of the cell? 
Yes, I do. 

588
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:15,000
Yeah, Yeah, here's a fun. 
Fact about. 

589
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:19,159
Mitochondria. 
You might know that you probably

590
00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:20,719
know this, but our listeners 
might not. 

591
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:25,120
So mitochondria have their own 
DNA and we actually get our 

592
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,560
mitochondrial DNA from our 
mothers. 

593
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,679
So like performance and 
endurance athletics is actually 

594
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,440
highly correlated with like your
mom's mitochondrial. 

595
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,560
DNA actually a fun fact for me. 
I didn't realize it was on the. 

596
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,600
Maternal side, yeah. 
I didn't know that the DNA part,

597
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,400
but I didn't realize, yeah. 
So basically, you know, pick 

598
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,440
your mom well and you'll be a 
good endurance athlete. 

599
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:50,880
Yeah. 
And of course, there's some. 

600
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,199
Other. 
Exactly. 

601
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,679
Yeah, Of course, mitochondrial 
DNA is not the only genetic 

602
00:34:56,679 --> 00:34:58,640
factor that makes someone a good
athlete. 

603
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:03,280
But obviously your mitochondria 
are what help you, you know, 

604
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,760
power your cells and fuel your 
muscles. 

605
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:10,120
So it's a big part of whether 
someone is a good endurance 

606
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,560
athlete in particular, like 
mitochondrial density and 

607
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:18,280
enzymes and whatnot. 
But now I'm digging deep into 

608
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:22,200
the recesses of my brain. 
See, this is what I'm here for. 

609
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,680
Is it just make us dig so deep 
that we just end up rotting 

610
00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:27,520
away? 
Our brains on air, right? 

611
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:29,480
I'm just going to be in the 
table. 

612
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,000
Later, that's the same space. 
We don't need to do this. 

613
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:34,680
That's right. 
Yeah. 

614
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,680
I'll remember my organic 
chemistry class in college where

615
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,840
like the average test score was 
like 52%. 

616
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,800
This is the way. 
It is, yeah. 

617
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:51,560
Okay, so we've talked about like
the science behind middle 

618
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,160
distance racing basically. 
So, you know, one of the big 

619
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,800
things people ask me is like how
is training different for mid 

620
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,640
distance racing? 
And I'll maybe I'll talk a 

621
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,960
little bit about how my 
training's been different and 

622
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,640
then like you can throw in 
everything I missed. 

623
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,560
So the biggest thing is when 
you're training for mid distance

624
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,680
compared to say a marathon or a 
half marathon, your overall 

625
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,560
mileage is going to be lower, 
your speed days are going to be 

626
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,920
faster, your tempo days are 
probably going to be at a higher

627
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,240
intensity. 
Like when you're training for a 

628
00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:27,000
marathon, you might do a lot of 
work at threshold. 

629
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,880
Whereas if you're training for 
the 8 or the 1500 slash mile, 

630
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,880
your tempo days might be like 
progression runs from like 

631
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:40,400
threshold down to 5K pace. 
Typically you use paces faster 

632
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:45,480
than lactate threshold as like 
your endurance support paces as 

633
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,800
compared to Lt. 
And you know, interestingly I 

634
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,840
was reading Steve Magnus's book 
Science Running recently and he 

635
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,880
actually recommends that people 
training for like the 8 and the 

636
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:04,520
15 who tend to be like more fast
twitch oriented runners, not do 

637
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,560
a lot of work at Lt. because it 
can affect their performance, 

638
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:09,800
which I actually found kind of 
interesting. 

639
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:16,360
So the other thing I'd say that 
is different for me and should 

640
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:20,720
be different for people who want
to go from like marathon, half 

641
00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:24,800
marathon to like 15108 hundred 
is strength training just 

642
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,600
becomes so much more important. 
I mean, you should be strength 

643
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,760
training if you're training for 
a marathon, but when you're 

644
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:37,520
training for events where you 
need more speed, then you need 

645
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,640
to be lifting heavy, you need to
be doing plyometrics, you need 

646
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,760
to be doing strength training. 
That really improves your 

647
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:48,320
ability to produce high amount 
of force at a fast speed. 

648
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,320
And the term for that is rate of
force development because the 

649
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,880
harder you can hit the ground, 
the more efficient you will run 

650
00:37:55,280 --> 00:38:00,440
and the faster you will run. 
So what would you add to that, 

651
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,520
David? 
I I think that was great. 

652
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:08,000
I would probably say like in 
summary, in some ways, like when

653
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,520
I look at middle distance 
training and I look at long 

654
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:17,320
distance training, the general 
concepts are still pretty 

655
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,760
similar, right? 
Like you said, the speed days 

656
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,200
are still there, but the speed 
days are a little faster, might 

657
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,520
be a little slow. 
Like, you know, like things 

658
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,400
might just change up a little 
bit on what they look like. 

659
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,200
But usually in most programming,
people are doing some speed 

660
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,400
work, people are doing some 
tempo work, some people are 

661
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,440
doing long runs, etcetera, 
etcetera. 

662
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,160
But I think one thing that you 
might see a little bit different

663
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,240
in middle distance specific 
programs though might be some of

664
00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:49,720
the usage of different kind of 
acceleration drills or speed 

665
00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:55,600
development days or some people 
have a knack for wickets, but 

666
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,000
people will use that for all 
distances. 

667
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:03,520
So that's not fair. 
That's not fair to say, but but 

668
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:07,200
I think and the and a lot more 
plyometric stuff too. 

669
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,080
So you'll see a lot more like 
hurdle hops and like different 

670
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,880
kinds of stuff people will do in
stadiums or benches and things 

671
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,760
like that. 
And the whole idea is to work 

672
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,120
on, like you said, creating high
amounts of force over a short 

673
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,320
duration of time. 
And I think it's really, I'm 

674
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,760
glad that you said that because 
I think in the distance world, 

675
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,480
there's this obsession with like
a quiet footstep. 

676
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,280
Like, how nimble can you be? 
I don't know. 

677
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,920
Have you ever seen this with 
anyone where it's like you're 

678
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,720
not efficient if you're not like
gently hitting the ground. 

679
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,080
You know, it's like, oh, you 
should be gliding over the 

680
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,480
ground. 
Like it's like you're floating. 

681
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,480
And it's like, no, no, you are 
hammering the crap out of that 

682
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,520
track and trying to go fast. 
You ever watch Noah Lyles run a 

683
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,240
200? 
Like that man is just blasting 

684
00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:55,800
that leg into the ground. 
But that you'd have to create a 

685
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:57,560
large amount of force to go 
fast. 

686
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,360
There's no way around it, you 
know? 

687
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,840
And one of the reasons why their
footsteps are as quiet as they 

688
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:08,680
are, even at some of those 
speeds, it's that they are so 

689
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:13,160
strong and they are so good at 
stabilizing and coordinating the

690
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,480
move. 
Like the sheer amount of force 

691
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,720
and the amount of coordination 
that goes into creating that 

692
00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:20,600
force. 
Well, like they're they have 

693
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,000
made it 1 of like one with them.
And I think one thing that I 

694
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:29,960
heard a long time ago, I, I 
honestly don't remember who said

695
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:35,760
it, shoot well, whoever said, 
but it was that was speed as a 

696
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,880
skill. 
Yes, I've heard that. 

697
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:40,160
I don't know who said that 
either. 

698
00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:42,040
Yeah. 
And I mean, like, sure, there's 

699
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,280
some genetic components that go 
into it and how fast you can go,

700
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:47,640
yadda, yadda. 
But if you account for all of 

701
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,720
those things, like at a certain 
point, in order to get faster, 

702
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:52,720
like you have to be better at 
moving your body. 

703
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,760
And I think that is probably 
like one of the largest 

704
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,520
differences is like if you're 
trying to break 4 minutes in the

705
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,320
mile, you're going to have to 
string together 459th. 

706
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,120
There's no way around it, right?
Like that's the time you got to 

707
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:07,400
run. 
You got to be pretty good at 

708
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,360
running sub 60s. 
And same thing goes. 

709
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,240
Like if you're trying to break 
two, well, yeah, two in the 800,

710
00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:15,920
it's the same thing. 
You should probably be able to 

711
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,800
run a 55, you know, 50-6 at the 
slow. 

712
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:24,600
And if you're running 56, like 
he better be tough as nails, 250

713
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:31,520
eights or 250 nines, you know, 
like, yeah, so they I think 

714
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,080
that's probably the biggest 
thing. 

715
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,320
And there's usually a little bit
more of an emphasis on some of 

716
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:40,800
the lighter plyos being like 
your drills, your skips, your. 

717
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,560
I mean, you ever go to a track 
meet, you just see sprinters 

718
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,080
warming up until who knows? 
Like, like, how long have they 

719
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:48,920
been here? 
I've been here for five hours 

720
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:50,520
and they've been on the track 
the whole time. 

721
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,280
Like, you know, like, yeah, it 
feels that way at least. 

722
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,480
Like, I feel like with distance 
runners, a lot of times people 

723
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:57,920
go and they're like short little
warm up. 

724
00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:59,800
They do a couple skips and they 
do some strides and they're 

725
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,960
like, all right, let's do it. 
It's like, it's not that way 

726
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:04,520
when you look at the shorter 
distances. 

727
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,480
And it's part of it is warming 
your tissues up too to like, 

728
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,640
like this is a quick, hard 
neuromuscular stimulus that like

729
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,600
we have a job to do and there's 
not that much time to do it. 

730
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:16,760
And if you want to do it at the 
best of your capability, you 

731
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:20,200
have to get your body's body 
ready to adopt that stimulus. 

732
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,360
And so I think that 
neuromuscular side of things 

733
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,920
too, there's a much larger 
emphasis on the middle distance 

734
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,120
side of things than in the long 
distance side of things. 

735
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:31,400
Like in the long distance side 
of things, it's kind of like, 

736
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:35,960
OK, do your like, do your skips,
do your strides, you know, so 

737
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,280
that when you start your race, 
you don't feel flat. 

738
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,480
But it's like, again, you're not
running quite as fast in those 

739
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:48,440
longer races where it's like in 
let's say A5 Ki think like if 

740
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,080
you are a collegiate listening 
to this and you're thinking 

741
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:55,560
about breaking 15 in the 5K, or 
if you're someone who is 

742
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:57,560
listening, you're like, I just 
want to break 20 in the 5K. 

743
00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:59,520
Like the same thing kind of 
stands here. 

744
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:04,280
But like the second that gun 
goes off and you hit pace 72, 

745
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,000
second quarters are still not 
that slow. 

746
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,720
So that then that's 15 flat. 
So that's 44816 hundreds. 

747
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:16,240
And it takes a while for that 
oxidative system to kick in, 

748
00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:18,480
which is your largest friend in 
that race. 

749
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,400
So if you dip into that 
anaerobic side a little too 

750
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,720
much, a little too early in 
those first two minutes, like 

751
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,000
sometimes things don't look as 
fun down the line. 

752
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:33,280
And so being able to kind of 
train a little bit of all of the

753
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,480
systems is really important. 
I think in the middle distances 

754
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,120
even more so. 
And I think it's interesting 

755
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:44,360
too, because a lot of times 
people from what we consider 

756
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:48,440
aerobic mechanisms actually test
higher in the middle distance 

757
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,880
athletes, things like VO2 Max 
and stuff like that. 

758
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,720
And it's partially because of 
their ability to just produce 

759
00:43:56,720 --> 00:43:58,720
sheer amounts of lactate and 
clear it, right? 

760
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,920
And then that allows for a 
greater capacity to push into a 

761
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:07,960
quote UN quote maximal level. 
So that's why that's a rant 

762
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:12,520
slash lesson slash podcast like 
for another time about why VO2 

763
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:14,640
Max isn't an end all be all 
metric. 

764
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,000
Yes, but it's. 
Not a good metric at all. 

765
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:21,280
Yeah, No, I think you made a 
really good point about the 

766
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,000
importance of drills. 
And yes, it is all about like 

767
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:28,880
priming your nervous system to 
recruit your muscles in such a 

768
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,680
way that you can produce the 
high amount of force you need to

769
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:35,880
produce for a, you know, 
two-minute 800 if you're an 

770
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:40,320
elite female or you know, 1:45 
for male or whatever. 

771
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:47,280
I think it's also a good point 
to bring up that both 800 and 

772
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:51,160
1500 slash mile runners can kind
of be divided into different 

773
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:52,680
groups. 
Like some people are more on 

774
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:55,440
like the speed side and some 
people are more unlike the 

775
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,200
endurance side. 
And those people may need to be 

776
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,600
trained differently because of 
their strengths and weaknesses, 

777
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,640
But for all of them, it is 
important to work on both 

778
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:08,720
aspects, right? 
Like if you're an 800 runner, 

779
00:45:08,720 --> 00:45:12,520
you need to be able to run fast.
So you're doing like a fair 

780
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,800
amount of work at 400 pace and 
even faster. 

781
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:19,720
And even 1500 mile runner should
be doing that as well. 

782
00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:24,800
But if like, let's say you're an
800 runner and speed is more 

783
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,360
your strength, you're coming at 
it from the speed side, then 

784
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:33,320
like the specifics of your 
workouts may be more tuned to 1,

785
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,120
strengthen your strength, but 
also to address your relative 

786
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:39,320
weakness in that like speed 
endurance component. 

787
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:43,680
Totally, Yeah, yeah. 
And any good coach is going to 

788
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,920
have a mix of everything. 
But yeah, you're going to cater 

789
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:48,840
to the strengths of your athlete
and then you're going to 

790
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,640
mitigate the the things are not 
as good at. 

791
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:54,720
But it's like we got to get 
better at that if you want to 

792
00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:58,760
get to the next level too. 
And so, yeah, I think that's a 

793
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:00,560
great point because you see it 
sometimes. 

794
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,600
And I think with this Grand Slam
track event that's going on 

795
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,000
right now, people are running 
off distances. 

796
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,880
And so it's kind of fun to 
watch, right? 

797
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,480
Because now you're seeing the 
800 specialists run a 1500, and 

798
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:17,440
now you're seeing 15105 K 
athletes like Jessica Hall go 

799
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,640
run a one 58800, right? 
So. 

800
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:26,440
It's just kind of like it's cool
to watch and I think it's 

801
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,800
interesting. 
So much of it too on the track 

802
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,160
is like race tactics and how the
race plays out. 

803
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,640
Because some races are going to 
be better catered towards people

804
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,880
that have speed and some are 
going to be better catered to 

805
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,520
people who have strength. 
And depending on how that race 

806
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:42,600
goes, some people that have 
strength, like that's when 

807
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,560
you'll see that 15105 K person 
place really, really well in an 

808
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,320
800 because of the way the day 
just laid out. 

809
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:52,560
So it yeah, it's super 
interesting. 

810
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,680
And now more than ever, so many 
people, you just have to be so 

811
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,400
good at closing. 
Like that in itself is something

812
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,520
that people are starting to 
train more and more, I think. 

813
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,360
And it's a tricky 1 cause a lot 
of it is just kind of grit and 

814
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:10,080
just going for it, you know, and
no matter how tired you are and 

815
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:14,200
how much pain you're in. 
But there is a way to kind of 

816
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,160
work on that, you know, and get,
as you're getting deeper into 

817
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,960
those workouts, maybe you throw 
in some really hard 2 hundreds 

818
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,680
or hundreds at the very end or 
something like, so your body 

819
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:24,600
gets used to having a 
neuromuscular stimulus. 

820
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:25,720
It's like, oh crap, it's time to
go. 

821
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:30,160
Like sometimes the bell does 
that for people, sometimes it's 

822
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:30,800
competition. 
So. 

823
00:47:31,720 --> 00:47:35,200
Yeah, yeah. 
And you know, a really good way,

824
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,680
like you mentioned is like at 
the end of, let's say like a 

825
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:42,360
threshold workout or like a 5K 
pace workout during like 4 to 6,

826
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,280
like hill sprints that are like 
20 to 30 seconds long. 

827
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,360
Coming at it from a 
neuromuscular standpoint, you're

828
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:54,360
teaching your body to better 
recruit a greater percentage of 

829
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:57,480
your muscle fibers because when 
we're running, we're never 

830
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:01,520
recruiting 100% of our fibers. 
Our body is cycling on and off. 

831
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,720
So if you do those sprints at 
the end of a workout when you 

832
00:48:05,720 --> 00:48:09,240
know some fibers are already 
fatigued, you're going to force 

833
00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:13,920
your body to learn how to 
recruit other fibers when you're

834
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:18,240
fatigued to run fast. 
And that does transfer quite 

835
00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:22,320
well to improving your kick at 
the end of a race. 1000%. 

836
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:27,400
Yeah. 
So we've we have a lot of topics

837
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,000
that we have written down, but I
think we should skip to I know 

838
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:31,440
I'm. 
Like looking at the title like 

839
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:33,160
Dang. 
Let's. 

840
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:35,440
Talk about to do a three hour 
master class on this. 

841
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:36,160
Let's go. 
No. 

842
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,600
All right, so shoes for mid 
distance training and racing. 

843
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:43,840
I mean, I think the biggest 
difference is like you're racing

844
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:47,960
in spikes. 
So spikes to some sounds scary, 

845
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,240
right? 
Like I was not like that 

846
00:48:51,240 --> 00:48:54,520
concerned about getting back 
into spikes after 25 years just 

847
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:58,400
because I test so many like 
minimal shoes and I don't do all

848
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,240
of them. 
Actually, I don't do most of my 

849
00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:02,920
runs in like Max stack or plated
shoes. 

850
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:07,880
But transitioning into spikes 
needs to be done thoughtfully 

851
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:13,840
and carefully. 
So like, so why don't you say 

852
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,840
how like at the beginning of 
each season you transition into 

853
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:20,600
spikes and then I if how I did 
it is any different 

854
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,680
transitioning back into them 
after 25 years, I can talk about

855
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:26,120
that too. 
Totally, Yeah. 

856
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,960
You know, there's not really any
perfect way to do it, but at 

857
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,120
some point or another you're 
going to have to put them on 

858
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,720
because if you just go to not 
wearing them at all, to wearing 

859
00:49:35,720 --> 00:49:39,000
them, especially if you're in 
the 5K distance, I can't tell 

860
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,640
you how many five KS I've gone 
into and you get 3200 in and 

861
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:48,240
then it's like my calves, like, 
Oh my gosh, what have I done? 

862
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:52,560
So you do have to train that to 
some degree. 

863
00:49:54,720 --> 00:50:00,400
I'm a big fan of like tossing 
them on for like the last Rep or

864
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,480
two of a workout just so that 
you get the stimulus of having 

865
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:05,520
them. 
And then as you get deeper into 

866
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:07,440
the season, you put them on a 
little bit more. 

867
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,840
Maybe you're doing some more 
race specific stuff like you 

868
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:13,520
want to feel what it is like you
want to like match as close as 

869
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:15,960
you can to that race so that 
your body isn't freaking out 

870
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:20,040
when you do it. 
With that said, spikes are 

871
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,120
harder, you know, on your calves
there. 

872
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,400
So it's like if you're not used 
to wearing them, you definitely 

873
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:27,520
have to gradually build up to 
it. 

874
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:30,360
I feel like there was like the 
old school mentality of like, 

875
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:31,760
no, we're always working out on 
our spikes. 

876
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:36,520
We're always racing our spikes, 
you know, and it's like that's a

877
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,560
little bit on the other extreme 
right now. 

878
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,640
You can't do quite as much work 
'cause you're just beat up all 

879
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:46,160
the time. 
But there there's a balance, you

880
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:49,480
know, I think you have to kind 
of look at the workout that 

881
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:51,080
you're doing. 
I think like the perfect 

882
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,160
workouts to kind of simulate 
some of it. 

883
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,720
If you're doing 4 hundreds, like
let's say a classic 400 workout 

884
00:50:56,720 --> 00:51:01,680
is somewhere between 10 and 12 
by 400, probably at race pace, 

885
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:08,000
this is probably more 1500 to 5K
runners, you know, more 5K 

886
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,480
probably. 
That's a lot of fours for race 

887
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:16,080
pace 15. 
But that's a common workout of 

888
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:19,400
people doing that event just a 
little bit slower, but like 

889
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,040
maybe the last four are in 
spikes and that's a mile worth 

890
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,920
of work still, right? 
Like not counting any rests that

891
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,440
you're doing if you have some 
kind of a float or if you're 

892
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:31,200
doing or just even just the 
basic jogging around and walking

893
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:37,280
around on the rest recovery. 
But same thing goes for like if 

894
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:41,280
you're doing a, you know, 
somewhere between a six to 

895
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:45,120
eight, six to 10 by K, you know,
if you're kind of on the longer 

896
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:46,880
side of distances for track 
work. 

897
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:52,640
If you're going to race a track 
10K in spikes should probably be

898
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:54,120
get pretty used to wearing those
spikes. 

899
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:57,000
So same thing. 
It's just getting used to 

900
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,080
wearing it at different paces 
and just slowly integrating it. 

901
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:04,200
Another great way to do it. 
If you are nervous about going 

902
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:08,800
that long that soon, you can 
also do your strides or like do 

903
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:10,920
pickups afterwards. 
So like how you were saying with

904
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,480
the hill sprints, you could hit 
some one 50s or something or 

905
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:17,920
some 2 hundreds, even if it's 
like at 5K pace, like even if 

906
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:21,520
we're just running, like let's 
say if you're I'm only using 15 

907
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:23,000
flat because the numbers are 
easy. 

908
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:27,240
But like if you're trying to run
72 second quarters, running a 

909
00:52:27,240 --> 00:52:29,600
few 30 sixes and spikes 
shouldn't be that hard. 

910
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,400
It's not going to like ruin your
day as far as like it's not 

911
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:34,760
going to shred your legs after 
your workout to run a couple 30 

912
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,920
sixes like. 
And if it does, you have some 

913
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,480
work to. 
Do so it's like just kind of 

914
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,440
slowly integrating it into the 
system so that your body doesn't

915
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:45,880
freak out as much when you start
getting going for real. 

916
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:49,520
And then you just make it a 
little bit longer, a little bit 

917
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:52,240
longer and your body will get 
more and more used to it. 

918
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:58,280
And usually you don't end up 
doing quite the full race 

919
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:02,080
distance in the spikes as far as
work goes, especially for like 

920
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:03,480
5K. 
Like if you're doing 5K of 

921
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,720
working spikes, that is kind of 
a lot on a on a training day, 

922
00:53:06,720 --> 00:53:09,760
but but if you're really 
experienced and you're really 

923
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:11,240
used to it, hey, why not? 
I don't know. 

924
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,400
But it again, at that point 
though, you you know what you're

925
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,960
doing, you know what you're 
signing up for if you're that 

926
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:17,960
deep into it. 
Yeah. 

927
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,840
But just slowly integrating it 
and then maybe taking like 30 

928
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:25,800
ish percent of whatever that 
workout is and doing that last 

929
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,960
third in the spikes or even less
than that at first. 

930
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:31,280
Right. 
Yeah. 

931
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:34,280
Yeah, yeah. 
So for me, you know, I've been 

932
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:38,400
doing the eight and the mile. 
So I started out just doing like

933
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:42,000
a few strides before my workout 
in spikes and then all my 

934
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:47,280
strides and then maybe like one 
or two reps in spikes and just 

935
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:51,520
gradually increasing it until I 
would do my full workout set in 

936
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:53,000
spikes. 
But again, when you're training 

937
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,040
for the 8 or the mile, you're 
not talking about a huge amount 

938
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:59,440
of volume there. 
And by doing that, you know, my 

939
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:03,440
calves were, I knew that I had 
done something different, but I 

940
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:06,440
never had like a point where I 
was like, Oh no, my calves are 

941
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,200
really sore. 
It's affecting my running. 

942
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:13,880
I actually feel like running on 
the indoor track had a bigger 

943
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:16,280
effect on my calves from the 
curves. 

944
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:20,720
Like my right calf was pretty 
sore like the first couple weeks

945
00:54:20,720 --> 00:54:24,440
that I was training there. 
Just from this track nearby has 

946
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:28,880
like really short straights and 
a really strangely shaped curves

947
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,680
where they like curve and then 
they're straight and then they 

948
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,880
curve again. 
So like the curve is really 

949
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:40,120
sharp at those points. 
But again, like after a few 

950
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:41,840
weeks that all went away and it 
was fine. 

951
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,880
So the main point is just like 
anything, your body needs time 

952
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:48,920
to adapt. 
Your tissues need time to adapt 

953
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:53,080
to your tendons, your muscles, 
your ankle, your foot, so 

954
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:58,520
gradually increasing your body's
exposure to running in a spike. 

955
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:01,400
A spike is essentially A 
minimalist shoe that is super 

956
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,840
stiff, is usually zero drop or 
close to it. 

957
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:10,440
So it's going to stress your 
feet, ankles and calf muscles a 

958
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:13,240
ton. 
And if you do all of your other 

959
00:55:13,240 --> 00:55:15,920
training in, you know. 
Rocker. 

960
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:22,160
Trainers yeah, then it's going 
to be like a big wake up call to

961
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:25,120
those tissues. 
Whereas if you normally do some 

962
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:29,160
of your training and minimalist 
shoes or even like it's so crazy

963
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:34,040
to think of like a shoe like the
Cyclone 2 as being like a lower 

964
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:36,720
stack shoe. 
But these days it kind of is, 

965
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:42,280
you know so just something that 
actually flexes in the forefoot 

966
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:47,600
and you know isn't 40 mils in 
the heel can actually be 

967
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:51,880
beneficial for regular training?
But that's a whole nother 

968
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:53,480
episode. 
Yeah. 

969
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:59,280
And then, you know, I would just
say a thing that I've noticed in

970
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:03,920
my training this winter is like,
I don't find myself reaching for

971
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:08,160
super shoes for, like, my tempo 
days or my long runs like I 

972
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:11,680
would in marathon training. 
One, you're just not as like 

973
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,360
marathon training is so much 
cumulative fatigue, and that's 

974
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:17,480
the point. 
But when you're training for 

975
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:22,080
shorter races, you can't go into
your speed workout tired like 

976
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:23,040
you. 
Really need to be. 

977
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:27,520
Pretty fresh, yeah. 
So I just didn't feel like I 

978
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:31,960
needed those super shoes as like
my little security blanket like 

979
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:35,480
sometimes you do when you're 
like 6 weeks out from a 

980
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:38,160
marathon. 
So, you know, that's just like 

981
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:42,200
my personal observation. 
But yeah I'm definitely like 

982
00:56:42,240 --> 00:56:45,840
barely using super shoes at all 
unless I have one for testing. 

983
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:47,760
Yeah, yeah. 
And when I was in a track 

984
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:51,160
season, it was very similar. 
My, yeah, my flat that I would 

985
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:54,400
do most of my workouts in was 
the cyclone that was kind of. 

986
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:57,160
The same. 
Yeah, it's awesome. 

987
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:02,960
That is, it can do anything. 
Yeah, it's relatively low to the

988
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:06,640
ground by today's standards. 
Still has like what is the, it's

989
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:08,360
like home on it though is like 
20. 

990
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:10,600
It's like high 20s, right? 
Like 28 maybe? 

991
00:57:10,720 --> 00:57:15,800
I yeah, I can't remember if the 
heel is like 32 here. 

992
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:18,320
I'm going to look it up. 
Yeah, that is a good, good thing

993
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:20,680
to look up. 
And I just go to our review 

994
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:22,760
because I know that we'll have 
it right at the top. 

995
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:24,760
There you go. 
Let's see. 

996
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:28,360
No, it says unknown. 
Got. 

997
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:33,360
Us. 
Let's see if Cyclone 3 has a. 

998
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:36,960
Running warehouse will have it. 
It's 282328. 

999
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:42,080
So I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
That's low by today's standards.

1000
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:45,440
Like there are shoes that are 
literally double that, yeah. 

1001
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:46,800
The people are training in 
daily. 

1002
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:48,760
Yes. 
Mm, hmm. 

1003
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:51,560
Yeah. 
So it's like moderate to low and

1004
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:55,280
it's flexible and that's gonna 
mirror roughly kind of what 

1005
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:58,440
attracts Spike. 
No, it's not, but it's better 

1006
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:00,240
than the other ones. 
Yeah, exactly it. 

1007
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:01,800
Kind of brings us the gap a 
little easier. 

1008
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:06,680
Yeah, I feel like the original 
streak fly is similar to like 

1009
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:07,880
it's even. 
I. 

1010
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:13,600
Feel yeah, but it's it doesn't 
have much of a four foot rocker 

1011
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:18,840
and it's pretty flexible and 
like relatively soft for its 

1012
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:23,080
stack height and the fact that 
it has zoom X so like that shoe,

1013
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:26,120
you know, didn't really live up 
to the hype as being like a 5K 

1014
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:29,560
super shoe, but it's absolutely 
my favorite shoe when I have 

1015
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:32,600
like a day of hill reps to do 
it's just for me. 

1016
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:38,080
It feels perfect for that yeah 
waiting for streak fly 2 to show

1017
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:39,680
up. 
I can't wait to test that. 

1018
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:42,440
I'm just a sad boy over here. 
I don't have, I don't have a 

1019
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:44,760
vomero. 
I don't have any of it. 

1020
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:46,440
Hopefully, fingers crossed, 
we'll see. 

1021
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:50,280
They might come in. 
I might be crying now after this

1022
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:54,880
recording is over, but. 
Well, you know, I mean, isn't 

1023
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:56,520
that what we all do after each 
record? 

1024
00:58:56,520 --> 00:59:02,720
Oh jeez, take it. 
And choked you are. 

1025
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:04,440
Always nice recording with you 
too, Andrea. 

1026
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:11,760
That was as we slowly just get 
more and more unhinged. 

1027
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:17,840
What? 
So I guess the last thing that's

1028
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:20,680
on our list, and it's more so 
just something interesting that 

1029
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:22,520
I read about Saffan Hassan's 
training. 

1030
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:26,480
So how do people train for mid 
distance and longer distances at

1031
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:30,080
the same time? 
So Saffan Hassan is, you know, 

1032
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:32,680
one of the most incredible 
female athletes in the world, 

1033
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:37,360
and she did, you know, she had 
quite an amazing Olympics, 

1034
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:41,720
winning the gold in the 
marathon, the bronze in the 5000

1035
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:44,240
and the bronze in the 15. 
Is that right? 

1036
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:45,400
She cleaned house. 
No, she don't. 

1037
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:46,480
I don't remember. 
I can't. 

1038
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:49,520
Yeah, but she but oh, she ate 
it. 

1039
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:52,640
She dropped. 
Out of the 15, I don't. 

1040
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:54,000
Did she? 
Medal. 

1041
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:56,840
In I think she chose not to race
the 15 or. 

1042
00:59:56,840 --> 01:00:00,160
She was duking it out with 
someone and fell on the first 

1043
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:01,800
day. 
That's right. 

1044
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:05,040
Yeah, on the track, Yeah. 
And then that kind of cascaded 

1045
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:06,400
some other things, right? 
Either way. 

1046
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:11,120
But anyway, she was training for
1500 to marathon in the 

1047
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:13,560
Olympics. 
And I read an interview with her

1048
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:17,160
coach and they said that, you 
know, they were figuring out how

1049
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:20,400
to best prepare for this crazy 
endeavor That worked out very 

1050
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:22,280
well for her. 
And they basically said they 

1051
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,200
just focused on training the 
extreme. 

1052
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:28,760
So they trained her like her 
speed days were like that of a 

1053
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:34,160
1500 runner, and her long runs 
and tempo days were that of a 

1054
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:37,600
marathon runner and makes 
perfect sense. 

1055
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:40,320
And actually, that's probably a 
good way for a lot of marathon 

1056
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:44,040
runners to train so. 
And, you know, there are 

1057
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:48,400
coaching systems that, you know,
kind of keep more speed work 

1058
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:50,640
into their training plans than 
others. 

1059
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,160
But you know, obviously, it 
worked for her. 

1060
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:56,560
That Sprint at the end of the 
marathon was pretty incredible. 

1061
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:58,960
Oh yeah, now I'm really good. 
Yeah, you're. 

1062
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:01,200
Right, that was pretty awesome. 
Yeah. 

1063
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:04,280
Yeah, she's amazing. 
I think it's interesting too. 

1064
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:07,000
When you look at most elite 
athletes, they are training both

1065
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:08,880
systems. 
They are doing top speed work, 

1066
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:11,800
they are hitting everything, 
even if they're running 26.2. 

1067
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:16,520
So they're always a little bit 
ready for all distances, you 

1068
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:18,400
know? 
So it's not quite as exclusive 

1069
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:22,000
to be like, oh wow, the 
marathoner ran a 5K, Like, could

1070
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:23,960
you believe that? 
Like. 

1071
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:29,360
But the 15 is still kind of wild
though, because that is fast 

1072
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:31,400
fast, right? 
Like that is dipping into some 

1073
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:34,040
new speeds. 
And if you're going to have to 

1074
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:38,240
go toe to toe with Sergey over 
the last, like, I mean, you're 

1075
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:44,280
running with some Savages 1500 
and Faith Kipyegon and like, Oh 

1076
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:46,000
my God. 
Like to think that you're going 

1077
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:49,600
to run a marathon and a 1500 in 
the same week at the highest 

1078
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:54,440
possible level is kind of crazy.
But yeah, they do, they do a 

1079
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:56,720
little bit of both. 
And I imagine in her case 

1080
01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:59,200
specifically, they were, yeah, 
hitting those extremes pretty 

1081
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:01,360
hard. 
Like let's, if we're going fast,

1082
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:03,560
we're going fast. 
If we're going long, we're going

1083
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:09,120
long like, but I know a lot of 
marathoners do like doing speed 

1084
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:12,680
work because it does make their 
marathon pace feel easier and 

1085
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:15,600
the most the the better way you 
can make 26 points, you feel 

1086
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:19,960
easy for as long as you can. 
That helps you. 

1087
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:21,640
Know. 
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 

1088
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:23,360
Psychologically, physically, 
everything. 

1089
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:27,000
So definitely a good mix. 
But yeah, that is crazy. 

1090
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:31,840
I mean, Stephane is amazing. 
I, I, I just love that. 

1091
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:35,200
Like she wows herself too. 
I know, yeah. 

1092
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:39,240
It's like your interview after 
the London Marathon is like my 

1093
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:41,800
all time favorite running 
interviewer ever. 

1094
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,040
So stupid like. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1095
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:50,920
I can't believe I finished a 
marathon, but you won it too. 

1096
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:55,600
But you just, you just only won 
a major right after stopping. 

1097
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:58,600
Yeah, you're finished. 
Yeah, yeah, I think she stopped 

1098
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:01,400
three times, Yeah. 
She had like stretched her. 

1099
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:04,200
Back. 
Slowly caught back up like she 

1100
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:07,240
is. 
I think with her too, like she's

1101
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:13,600
an anomaly because I think her 
brain like she is just so so 

1102
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:17,560
tough. 
I think she can get to a gear 

1103
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:21,360
that just most people can't get 
to that she's just willing to 

1104
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:23,800
just go crush it. 
And I think like her brand will 

1105
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:26,920
go blank because like you hit 
those interviews and they'll be 

1106
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:30,560
like, you see that? 
Like, Oh my God, like where did 

1107
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:31,760
that come from? 
I don't know you. 

1108
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:34,040
You're the one that did it. 
You did that. 

1109
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:39,000
She's like just as shocked as 
us. 

1110
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:43,040
So I think something short wired
where she just goes full send, 

1111
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:45,920
you know, like, yeah, it's 
pretty amazing to watch. 

1112
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:47,760
Like those people are so cool 
to. 

1113
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:49,360
Absolutely. 
Yeah. 

1114
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,000
We get to be graced with Stefan 
Hassan's racing abilities 

1115
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:57,520
because she is maybe, maybe the 
best ever across. 

1116
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:00,160
I mean, that's insane range. 
That is insane range. 

1117
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:02,600
Even if she doesn't have any 
world records because she 

1118
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:04,360
doesn't anymore. 
Right, Because Faith has it in 

1119
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:07,120
the 15 and then Faith broke it 
in the five. 

1120
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:11,960
So she doesn't. 
Yeah, so and then someone broke 

1121
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:14,800
Faiths in the five. 
Ki think recently too. 

1122
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:19,920
Oh, right, I was writing about 
it in a review recently. 

1123
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:25,320
The woman who won gold in Paris.
What is her name? 

1124
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:28,280
Church here. 
No. 

1125
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:32,240
Beatrice Tibet. 
How can we forget her? 

1126
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:34,520
Yeah. 
She's yeah, she's great. 

1127
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:37,040
She's so good. 
They're all so good. 

1128
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:40,880
Like we're in such an era right 
now where it's like first 

1129
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:43,120
through, like 12th are all just 
amazing. 

1130
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:45,920
That's incredible. 
So the reason I had looked that 

1131
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:48,840
up is I was reviewing the Nike 
Air victory. 

1132
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:53,120
Yeah, the Nike Air V2 spike, 
which is like a mid distance 

1133
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:56,920
spike. 
She won gold in the five and the

1134
01:04:56,920 --> 01:05:01,480
10 and broke the world record in
the five in the air. 

1135
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:03,560
Victory, Yeah. 
Which a? 

1136
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:05,360
Lot of them. 
Yeah, I know. 

1137
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:07,960
Is the same thing in too a lot 
of them will race in the 

1138
01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:10,240
ambition for 5K, which is kind 
of crazy. 

1139
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:12,800
Yeah. 
Like, like those spikes are so 

1140
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:15,280
aggressive, but I think when 
they're running that fast, like 

1141
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:17,120
they like to have that 
aggressive feel. 

1142
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:20,240
Right, but she wore it in the 
10K too. 

1143
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:23,000
Yeah, that's that's not well. 
No Nico Young races in the 

1144
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:24,920
ambition, I think of the 10K. 
Oh, does he? 

1145
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:27,760
Yeah, I'm pretty sure. 
I have to don't Fact Check like 

1146
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:30,760
I'll have to Fact Check that. 
But I think he does because, 

1147
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:32,880
like, I'm always looking, you 
know, I'm always just like. 

1148
01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:36,320
Yeah, yes, of course, yeah. 
But. 

1149
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:38,840
Yeah, you never. 
Yeah, anger Britson was also in 

1150
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:39,680
the. 
Victory, too. 

1151
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:42,480
He likes the victory. 
Yeah, a lot of people like that 

1152
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:44,640
feeling, I think. 
Yeah, it's. 

1153
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:47,400
It's a nice shoe. 
Yeah, I just, it's too, it's 

1154
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:49,560
aggressive, minimal. 
Yeah, I can. 

1155
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:54,000
I mean, you know, but I'm 
obviously not running a 5K is 

1156
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:56,600
anywhere near as fast as those 
ladies. 

1157
01:05:56,880 --> 01:06:00,760
They'd run, you know, 4 miles in
the time that I would run 

1158
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:05,160
Clobber. 
Me like what did they it's 14 

1159
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:08,760
flat that's the the world record
now or is it 13 now? 

1160
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:10,800
Did someone get under 14? 
They probably did. 

1161
01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:12,200
Yeah, she did. 
Yeah. 

1162
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:15,160
There you go. 
I haven't broken 14. 

1163
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:21,720
So they're they're cooking. 
They are cooking. 

1164
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:24,320
They are so good. 
Amazing. 

1165
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:25,880
Yeah. 
All right, well, this was a. 

1166
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:28,040
Really fun episode, David. 
It was. 

1167
01:06:29,160 --> 01:06:32,720
I'm glad that I am glad we got 
to learn all about your racing 

1168
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:34,640
background because I didn't know
most of that. 

1169
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:36,440
So that was cool. 
Yeah. 

1170
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:41,040
Yeah, and I hope you all learned
a lot about mid distance racing 

1171
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:44,480
and maybe we've even inspired 
some of you to try some shorter 

1172
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:46,240
races this year had a lot of. 
Fun, you know there's. 

1173
01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:47,960
They are a lot. 
Of fun, I'm not going to lie. 

1174
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:50,800
There's a lot of adult track 
mates, you know, there's a ton 

1175
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:53,840
of Rd. miles which are like 
super accessible to do. 

1176
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:57,120
You don't obviously run them in 
spikes, so that's easier. 

1177
01:06:57,240 --> 01:07:00,720
You can always look on Oh my 
God, why am I blinking? 

1178
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:02,160
We're wrapping this up. 
I need to know this. 

1179
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:07,920
This is. 
A lot of the meets are on direct

1180
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:10,240
athletics. 
There it is direct athletics, 

1181
01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:13,680
yes that's what I was looking 
for cause a lot of universities 

1182
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:17,000
hold open meets, you know, and 
not all of the races are going 

1183
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:19,840
to be like, you know, D1 college
fast. 

1184
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:22,560
There's plenty of races that are
very accessible for the public 

1185
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:25,160
that people just don't know 
about that don't exist like 

1186
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:27,480
Westmont here in Santa Barbara 
hosts a lot of those kinds of 

1187
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,560
meets. 
So yeah, if you're interested on

1188
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:32,240
getting on the track, do it. 
It's fun. 

1189
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:32,960
It's a lot of. 
Fun. 

1190
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:38,920
It is so fun well, thank you all
for listening as always, you 

1191
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:41,360
know leave us a comment leave us
a review. 

1192
01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:44,760
We'd love to hear your comments 
and questions. 

1193
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:47,640
Thanks David for joining me and 
we'll see you guys next time 

1194
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:59,040
I'm. 
Going to go cry now. 

1195
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:00,160
Me too.