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With Summer, just around the 
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from fractal which have more 
coverage and a solid UPF, 50 

11
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plus to keep you protected from 
the Sun, whether you To run with

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CLA or fractal, this summer. 
You can find both today at 

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running Warehouse, visit the 
link in the description to find 

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our reviews of each brand. 
And from the right cap for your 

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next run. 
Hello everyone. 

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And welcome to the docks running
podcast where we a group of 

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doctors with physical therapy 
discuss, the Art and Science of 

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running, and the stuff that we 
put on our feet. 

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I'm Nathan Brown your host for 
tonight, along with dr. 

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David Salas. 
And we have doctor Wooderson 

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with us. 
He has been with us before we're

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excited to have him back. 
If you want to hear our 

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conversation with him, it was on
recovery 101. 

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And it was our hundred and First
episodes, if you want to hear 

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kind of the Baseline of a lot of
stuff regarding recovery. 

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Why don't you go back to that 
episode? 

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See what he had to say, and then
come back and watch this 

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episode. 
I know Ryan since you have been 

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with us last time, our 
viewership has grown a lot. 

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We have a lot of new people kind
of week by week, right now 

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joining in to listen, which has 
been awesome. 

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Mmm. 
And so we're trying to refer 

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people back to other episodes. 
We've done far before the 

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listenership has been where it 
is. 

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So, again, Ryan, thanks so much 
for joining us today. 

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No, it's awesome. 
I'm glad you guys are growing. 

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I appreciate you having me back 
on. 

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I'm stoked, awesome. 
Well, Ryan is out in Colorado, 

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which means that he's soaking up
the Stellar performance by the 

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nuggets and Nicole, and you'll 
catch, and we are having him 

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back on to dive a little bit 
deeper into Part of the 

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conversation about recovery. 
And we're going to really Center

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this whole conversation around 
the topic of sleep and what 

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sleep does for us, why we sleep,
how sleep and stress interact 

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with each other, how sleep 
impacts recovery, sleep, hygiene

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sleep and running performance. 
We're going to dive into all of 

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those things throughout this 
episode. 

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And so, for our subjective, for 
the week, we want to ask you 

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all, if you want to share some 
tips that you've found for your 

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busy life and how you make 
sleep, a priority or ways that 

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you wish sleep was better. 
ER, or some sleep horror stories

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as it refers, as it relates to a
race. 

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I know I've had times where I 
have a big race the next day and

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I get no sleep the night before 
for a myriad of reasons. 

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So let us know your sleep 
stories below and we'd love to 

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hear them, all right? 
So before we go into the topic 

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itself, Ryan just give us a 
little bit for those who don't 

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know you give us a little 
background on kind of who you 

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are as a physical therapist 
where you're practicing now, and

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kind of what you specialize in, 
what you do. 

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Yeah, I'm lucky. 
In Denver proper. 

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I've been practicing here for 11
years, just found it co-founded.

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And opened up Revo, 
Physiotherapy and sports 

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performance. 
It's a branch of a company that 

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started in Boulder. 
So we just opened in February. 

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I'm geeked to get this Operation
Rolling hard. 

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It's going well, so far, so 
probably the last seven or eight

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years. 
I've focused Just very hard on 

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serving Runners because I am one
and I understand most of our 

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problems pretty darn well having
experienced, many of them 

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myself. 
So that's who I tend to focus on

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in my treatment though. 
You know, people come in and see

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me and I like, do you treat 
anything above the waist? 

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I'm like, yeah, yeah. 
Actually I do I do all the 

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things but, you know, my 
preferences is the is the 

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running. 
So, I'm happy to see anything, 

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but I really love working with 
Runners. 

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So that's that's what we do, 
right? 

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And the other quick overlap 
between Ryan and I very it's 

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really peripheral. 
We didn't actually overlap at 

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all, but I did my I'm from 
Wisconsin, did my undergraduate 

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at the University of Wisconsin 
and Ryan. 

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You did your residency at UW as 
well, right? 

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If I'm remembering correctly, 
that is true. 

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I had the great Fortune of doing
my residency at UW and 12 and I 

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lived in Eagle River, which is 
you podcasters? 

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Can't see me. 
But it's way the top of the 

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hand, like 20, 20 minutes from 
the up', and had to commute to 

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Madison every couple of weeks. 
So it was an awesome year, very 

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cold year but awesome. 
One than the less. 

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Yeah, the summer is great in 
Eagle River and that's gorgeous.

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Pretty much. 
You try to soak up three months 

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for the other nine. 
Yep, flies the size of your 

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thumb. 
It's true. 

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Incredible. 
So let's let's kind of take a 

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step back for the people who 
didn't want to go back and 

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re-listen to the entire episode 
of recovery. 101. 

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Can you just give us an overview
of recovery and kind of what you

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think is important when it comes
to that? 

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Because there's so many things, 
you know, massage guns and 

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compression and hot cold 
contrast, baths, all these 

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different things. 
How do you? 

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But how do you conceptualize 
recovery and what's important? 

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Yeah. 
Oh boy, I have this conversation

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an awful lot with Runners 
because Does the hot/cold 

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contrast things, the compression
Boots, the massage guns, all the

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stuff that that tends to get the
front seat and in terms of 

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coverage and what you see on 
social media and everything like

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that but I almost never talk 
about those things. 

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Not never, I very rarely talk 
about those things in my 

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treatment sessions in my 
coaching sessions, what I'm 

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talking about in terms of 
recovery, most often are sleep 

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nutrition, hydration and stress.
Those are the four pillars. 

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Of recovery for me as a provider
for any athlete. 

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I don't care if you're a runner 
or powerlifter, that's that's 

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across the board. 
Yeah, and why, you know, I think

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that what also gets the 
Forefront of attention is the 

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workouts, so how many runs you 
do a week? 

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How hard you do your workouts? 
How many workouts you do that? 

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And how many miles you run a 
week? 

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Whenever I say, how many miles 
to run a week twice? 

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Whatever, I said that twice, but
that's how important people 

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people put it out as the 
Forefront. 

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So, So why do you talk so much 
about recovery with your 

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athletes and I feel like your 
Niche even as your kind of like 

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your through, even through your 
like Instagram and how you try 

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to do Community Education, you 
do focus a lot on recovery. 

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So why so much on recovery in a 
really tiny nutshell, your 

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Fitness is only as good as your 
recovery. 

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You know, the change happens in 
between the workout so it 

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doesn't have matter. 
How many miles you run or how 

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much strength Earning you do and
yes, please Runners. 

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All of you need to be doing 
strength training. 

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But what happens, the change for
you and your progressives and 

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athlete happens in the middle, 
right? 

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And happens in between each 
workout. 

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So what are you doing to set 
yourself up for the next good 

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workout? 
You hope to have right. 

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We've all had the bad ones. 
We've all had the bad ones, we 

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know what they feel like they're
terrible. 

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We've had some good ones to we 
know what those feel like. 

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So Doing the work to set 
yourself up for a good workout 

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to come is where the progress 
really happens for each athlete.

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So that's why I focus on those 
things because all of that 

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happens in the middle of your 
runs and in between your 

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training sessions. 
Yeah, I think that's great and I

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think to piggyback off of that, 
I think more than ever in the 

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last 23 years, I've heard more 
and more cases of Reds or 

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Relative energy deficiency, you 
know, in sport and people are 

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not taking care of their bodies,
their quote unquote on that 

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grind, right? 
Like they're, they're going hard

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all of the time seven days a 
week and they're expecting these

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big gains and then a lot of 
times, maybe they get it in the 

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short term but they it's not 
sustainable and then they start 

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crashing and they start going 
through the injury cycles and 

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things like that. 
So I think that's I think that's

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a great way to look at it and to
see like everything happens in 

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between the workouts. 
I agree. 

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No, I can't overstate how 
important it is. 

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To pay attention to things, like
a relative energy deficiency 

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because it is so ingrained in 
the culture of Endurance Sports,

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it is deep. 
It is very deep and it is 

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problematic, and it is something
we have as providers. 

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Haven't always understood fully 
how to recognize right away. 

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And even as athletes, we don't 
understand What we're doing to 

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our bodies until we're on the 
backside of it, and things are 

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falling apart and we don't know 
why, right? 

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And it's somewhat much of that 
can be tied to relative energy 

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deficiency. 
So it's something that needs to 

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be on every endurance athletes 
radar for certain and, and 

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people who take care of 
endurance athletes. 

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So, on that, right? 
This will be but kind of the 

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last topic before we go into the
main topic of sleep, if we are 

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an athlete or if you're somebody
working with endurance athletes,

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what are some of those signs of?
Lack of recovery or you might be

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entered into this relative 
energy deficiency. 

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Kind of getting that red 
syndrome are. 

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What are some of those signs 
that people can be looking out 

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for? 
Yeah, this is, this is where it 

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gets kind of tough because you 
go to like dr. 

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Google and and you look at the 
science and symptoms of of Reds,

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and it's all very general, it's 
very ambiguous. 

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So you are fatigued for a longer
than you should be fatigue. 

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Do your Or excessively fatigued 
your body doesn't recover as 

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quickly. 
Like what does that even mean 

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you have muscle aches and pains 
joint 8, aches and pains where 

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you may not have as many or as 
intensely as before. 

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So those kinds of things are 
definitely things to look for 

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appetite. 
Suppression also can be a sign 

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or symptom excessive fatigue. 
So again these are really 

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nebulous things. 
It like, oh, yeah, like I've 

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just been working really hard. 
Like, of course, I feel this 

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stuff, right? 
Everybody's had that same 

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thought and so it's it's really 
tough to identify as an athlete 

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when you're in the middle of it.
And in particular, as a coach, 

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or a provider for that athlete, 
when they're, in the middle of 

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it, like, is this, what's going 
on? 

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So are my radar for Red's is 
always very, very high, 

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especially if an athlete is 
Coming to me with just multiple 

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things happening at once. 
Musculoskeletal e stress, wise, 

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energy, availability, wise, like
I'm pushing really hard on this 

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workout. 
I've done this workout before 

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but I don't have the same Pace 
as of the same results. 

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That's that kind of tripped my 
trigger of like, okay, 

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something's up here that we need
to pay attention to, right? 

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00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,400
Like it may not be read 
immediately but We need to watch

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this because this could be like 
short-term sleep deficiency or 

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it could be like ongoing 
development of Reds that kind of

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thing. 
So it's tough to identify right 

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out of the gate, right? 
But those are good times. 

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00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,100
It sounds like what you do is 
you kind of go through an 

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inventory of their sleep, their 
nutrition, their hydration, in 

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their stress and see do. 
These things line up with, like 

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you're having this new level of 
fatigue that you have fatigue, 

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soreness. 
All these different kind of 

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vague symptoms and is there 
something that lines up? 

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I think a little anecdote just 
to add in there as I'm taking, 

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I'm actually taking a whole week
right in the as we recorded some

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of the middle of a week off of 
running. 

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I last Thursday, I went and I 
started running and I've just 

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been having some like hamstring 
pain, little bit of shin pain. 

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My foots been feeling weird. 
My back has been feeling weird 

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and I got done. 
I've just been feeling like kind

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of dizzy at the end of runs and 
just off like just really hard 

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00:12:22,700 --> 00:12:26,600
to wake up in the mornings and 
I'm, you know, I've got a lot 

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00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,200
going on right now. 
I'm in a Of end of semester to 

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00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,300
start a new semester in my own 
schooling. 

228
00:12:31,500 --> 00:12:34,300
And I'm also kind of 
transitioning in like the 

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00:12:34,300 --> 00:12:37,400
teaching between semesters, 
there's a lot going on on the 

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00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:39,200
stress levels. 
There's a lot going on, with my 

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00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,300
sleep, the physical amount. 
I just got done with a Race, So 

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00:12:42,300 --> 00:12:44,600
I just feel exhausted. 
I'm like, I'm gonna just take a 

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00:12:44,608 --> 00:12:48,500
break and I'm going to take some
time to sleep, a lot more. 

234
00:12:48,500 --> 00:12:52,000
I'm going to take some time to 
do some weight lifting and not 

235
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,600
go through running and just kind
of reset. 

236
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,200
And you know, I don't I don't 
think I have Reds but I You 

237
00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,000
think that I'm exhibiting some 
of those signs of just not 

238
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,900
enough for recovery and we'll 
see how the end of the week 

239
00:13:04,900 --> 00:13:06,600
goes, you know? 
And I might be more than that 

240
00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:11,200
that I need but I think what you
brought up is awesome. 

241
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,900
So thanks for bringing that 
again if you want to dive a 

242
00:13:13,900 --> 00:13:16,900
little bit on that surface level
of each of these topics sleep 

243
00:13:16,900 --> 00:13:18,500
nutrition. 
Hydration stress. 

244
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,300
You can go back to our recovery 
101 episode and kind of hear him

245
00:13:22,300 --> 00:13:25,600
talk more about that, but let's 
start talking about sleep. 

246
00:13:26,100 --> 00:13:30,600
And so first kind of big Is 
really, why do we even sleep? 

247
00:13:30,900 --> 00:13:34,100
What's the importance of sleep? 
What happens as we sleep? 

248
00:13:34,700 --> 00:13:39,300
Oh boy. 
That's, we're starting to really

249
00:13:39,300 --> 00:13:42,300
wide in the funnel, Hartley. 
Yes, yes. 

250
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:43,600
Okay. 
All right. 

251
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:45,400
Why do we sleep? 
Oh man. 

252
00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:50,500
There's there's an evolutionary 
discussion to be had here 

253
00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:55,500
because if you, if you listen to
the people who have phds in this

254
00:13:55,500 --> 00:14:00,500
stuff, which I 100% do not They 
will tell you that sleep 

255
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:05,700
evolutionarily is 
disadvantageous, you know, in a 

256
00:14:05,700 --> 00:14:09,100
survival type way like honky 
kill. 

257
00:14:09,500 --> 00:14:14,600
It doesn't make sense, but we 
do, because we have to. 

258
00:14:15,100 --> 00:14:18,000
And one of the reasons that we 
have to speak because it acts 

259
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:23,900
sleep on a really General level 
acts as a reset for our body in 

260
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:28,500
a number of ways, a reset for 
our whore, Bones and 

261
00:14:28,500 --> 00:14:32,500
neurotransmitters to repair our 
bodies and these days, you know,

262
00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:35,900
we're not talking caveman days 
anymore, but in these days to 

263
00:14:35,900 --> 00:14:39,500
repair ourselves from really 
hard workouts, that's where all 

264
00:14:39,500 --> 00:14:45,700
that work happens. 
So, sleep is massive in terms of

265
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:51,100
how our bodies are able to 
repair themselves from the work 

266
00:14:51,100 --> 00:14:54,400
that we've done or the stress, 
whether physical or emotional 

267
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,500
that we've incurred throughout 
our day to day. 

268
00:14:58,500 --> 00:15:01,800
So that's, that's the purpose 
that sleep serves on a really 

269
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,800
surface-level cool. 
And you talked about kind of 

270
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,300
this reset with hormones and 
kind of resetting. 

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00:15:08,300 --> 00:15:11,600
Some of those things, can you 
give us a little more details on

272
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,700
what is happening hormone wise 
or other things that are 

273
00:15:14,708 --> 00:15:18,400
regulated just through that 
through sleep? 

274
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,200
What's kind of happening there? 
Yeah. 

275
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,400
So again, I don't have a PhD in 
this stuff, but hormones, that 

276
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,300
are regulated have a lot to do. 
Everybody knows, or many people 

277
00:15:26,300 --> 00:15:28,500
know, hopefully about cortisol, 
Right? 

278
00:15:28,500 --> 00:15:34,000
It's the stress hormone and it's
something that I wish was tested

279
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:38,600
routinely in Physicians offices,
but it's not so that cortisol 

280
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:44,700
level is effectively cleared out
and regulated by adequate sleep 

281
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:48,200
or elevated by inadequate sleep 
right? 

282
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:53,600
Among among other things. 
So, you know, yeah, so you had a

283
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,100
big workout and you hatches to 
crazy day at work. 

284
00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,600
So physical Stress is high, 
emotional? 

285
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,400
Stress is high. 
Interesting thing is your brain,

286
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,600
doesn't categorize what that 
stress? 

287
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:09,200
Is it just knows stress, right? 
It doesn't know physical versus 

288
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,300
emotional, it just knows. 
Holy crap. 

289
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,900
That was a lot, right? 
And so, your coordinate of 

290
00:16:15,900 --> 00:16:19,400
cortisol becomes elevated 
throughout the day, because that

291
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,500
is a lot. 
And if you sleep for, you know, 

292
00:16:22,500 --> 00:16:26,500
for whatever reason, for four or
five hours that following night,

293
00:16:26,500 --> 00:16:30,800
or that night, Then you can't 
flush out whatever you want to 

294
00:16:30,808 --> 00:16:35,300
say, regulate that cortisol that
has been accumulating in your 

295
00:16:35,300 --> 00:16:40,100
body throughout the day. 
And so, you achieve say, you 

296
00:16:40,100 --> 00:16:42,300
stack up multiples of those days
in a row? 

297
00:16:42,300 --> 00:16:45,800
Because we all know what that's 
like, hard workouts, hard days 

298
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:50,000
at work hard days at home, 
whatever it may be the cortisol,

299
00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:53,600
achieves a new Baseline every 
single time. 

300
00:16:54,500 --> 00:17:00,100
It's the, it's the sleep with a 
good sleep that helps us bring 

301
00:17:00,100 --> 00:17:03,500
that cortisol level back down, 
to where our bodies want it to 

302
00:17:03,508 --> 00:17:06,000
be. 
So that's just one example of 

303
00:17:06,008 --> 00:17:10,099
cortisol is like the most 
important in my mind, among 

304
00:17:10,099 --> 00:17:11,599
among others. 
Yeah. 

305
00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:14,400
And I think it's great, that you
bring that up because I feel 

306
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:18,099
like at least in all the 
physiology classes, I took that 

307
00:17:18,099 --> 00:17:22,099
they looked over cortisol and 
there's this philosophy or the 

308
00:17:22,099 --> 00:17:23,900
syndrome that they believe 
called General Adaptation. 

309
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,599
Ation syndrome, which basically 
is you have a stress to the body

310
00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:30,100
of some kind, there's an alarm 
to it, there's a resistance, you

311
00:17:30,100 --> 00:17:32,100
build against it. 
Then there's a phase of 

312
00:17:32,100 --> 00:17:36,000
exhaustion or recovery and how 
you go into that. 

313
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,000
Next phase completely determines
how you come out of the other 

314
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:44,000
side and if you have a decreased
amount of recovery, now becomes 

315
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,600
a positive feedback loop where 
you're putting more in and then 

316
00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,900
you're getting more exhaustion 
out and so that keeps going and 

317
00:17:49,900 --> 00:17:52,900
going and going and going and 
before you know it now you're 

318
00:17:53,300 --> 00:17:55,400
having in Juries maybe there's 
not so health problems. 

319
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,300
Like there's all kinds of things
that go where stress begets more

320
00:17:58,300 --> 00:18:02,400
stress. 
And if you aren't able to reset 

321
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:06,600
that, that can be a very Twisted
cycle and can be very hard to 

322
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,500
break. 
Whether it's, you know, life 

323
00:18:09,500 --> 00:18:13,300
stress or physical stress, and I
think being able to moderate 

324
00:18:13,300 --> 00:18:18,700
that is is very, very important.
I think this is something we 

325
00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:21,900
might get into later, but when 
it comes to, you know, if you 

326
00:18:21,900 --> 00:18:24,600
have a very stressful day, 
whether if it's physical, 

327
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:30,400
emotional, whatever, does the 
elevated, cortisol levels 

328
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,800
impact, your ability to sleep or
your ability to like, fall 

329
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,000
asleep or or what's the 
relationship? 

330
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,800
There. 
Absolutely affects your ability 

331
00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,600
to fall asleep. 
It's one of those things that 

332
00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:46,300
there are multiple processes 
that have to happen in. 

333
00:18:46,500 --> 00:18:49,800
Not necessarily in a certain 
order but they have to happen to

334
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,700
allow your body to feel like 
it's ready to sleep and 

335
00:18:53,900 --> 00:18:57,600
regulation of cortisol is one of
those things, right? 

336
00:18:57,700 --> 00:19:00,700
Our cortisol kind of Ebbs and 
flows and typical patterns 

337
00:19:00,700 --> 00:19:05,000
throughout the day. 
And what sleep allows us to do 

338
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,300
is bring down that cortisol 
level. 

339
00:19:07,300 --> 00:19:11,400
So we kind of start in an 
appropriate level for the next 

340
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:16,400
day because it does elevate and 
depress multiple times. 

341
00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:19,300
Our day, depending on what's 
going on, our own physiology, 

342
00:19:19,300 --> 00:19:21,600
and just the activities 
throughout the day. 

343
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,700
So I forgotten. 
Now, what your question is, I 

344
00:19:24,708 --> 00:19:29,100
got off on a little bit of a 
taste too sudden, is it harder? 

345
00:19:29,100 --> 00:19:30,900
Is it harder to fall asleep with
high? 

346
00:19:30,900 --> 00:19:33,100
And I have not you made me think
of another question so if I 

347
00:19:33,100 --> 00:19:36,100
remember it but it does having 
high levels of cortisol or high 

348
00:19:36,100 --> 00:19:38,700
stressful day, make it harder to
sleep. 

349
00:19:38,700 --> 00:19:42,400
Like is there shown relationship
between cortisol levels and I 

350
00:19:42,408 --> 00:19:43,900
get? 
And like you said, we don't get 

351
00:19:43,900 --> 00:19:47,600
this stuff measured all the time
so how You know how much does a 

352
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,000
level plane to? 
But anyway, just kind of doesn't

353
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,900
make it harder to fall asleep 
was kind of the original 

354
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:54,500
question. 
Thank you, sorry. 

355
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,300
Yeah, absolutely, it does make 
it harder to fall asleep. 

356
00:19:58,300 --> 00:20:01,600
If your if your cortisol levels 
towards the end of your day, or 

357
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,400
when you're trying to go to 
sleep, are too high relative to 

358
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,800
where they need to be. 
Then you're going to have a much

359
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,600
harder time, potentially falling
asleep or staying asleep, 

360
00:20:12,700 --> 00:20:15,600
because that Baseline is 
elevated above where your body 

361
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:20,600
wants it. 
Be so 100% And I want to we'll 

362
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,900
get into it later about maybe 
how to manage time before bed or

363
00:20:24,900 --> 00:20:27,800
if their strategies to kind of 
get yourself in a good space, 

364
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,000
ready to sleep. 
But before we get there, so we 

365
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:31,600
talked about you kind of talked 
about this. 

366
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,900
Reset, you talked about 
cortisol, you said there's some 

367
00:20:34,900 --> 00:20:38,400
other hormones that are involved
as well, but that also made me 

368
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,900
think about like then what 
happens kind of if you don't get

369
00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:44,400
the sleep, are there. 
What kind of effects do we have?

370
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,100
You know, obviously you have 
changes in Cortisol levels. 

371
00:20:47,100 --> 00:20:48,700
But what does that do to our 
bodies? 

372
00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:52,300
If we're having this, you know, 
just one night matter. 

373
00:20:52,300 --> 00:20:56,400
If I if I have a late night of 
work that I got to get done, 

374
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,700
plus some school work. 
Like, how much does one night of

375
00:20:58,700 --> 00:21:02,200
bad sleep impact me? 
And what does that do to me? 

376
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,700
Oh boy. 
One night does matter. 

377
00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:10,400
If you read, if there's a 
scientist by the name of Matthew

378
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,800
Walker. 
And if you read any of his books

379
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,300
or listen to any of his podcast,
he's a brilliant human. 

380
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,100
And he would tell you that one 
night, absolutely does matter, 

381
00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:25,000
and I agree with him. 
He will spout off data about and

382
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,600
I figure what the numbers are, 
exactly, but he spouts off 

383
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:32,400
regularly data about surgeons. 
This is a really relatable 

384
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,900
thing, because many of us have 
had some sort of interaction 

385
00:21:34,900 --> 00:21:40,100
with a surgeon, or a physician, 
but medical decision making, you

386
00:21:40,100 --> 00:21:46,100
know, the Capacity for a surgeon
to make all the appropriate 

387
00:21:46,100 --> 00:21:49,400
decisions on a good night of 
sleep as much higher than if 

388
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,400
they had a poor night of sleep, 
say six hours or fewer. 

389
00:21:53,300 --> 00:21:56,400
How many surgeons are getting 
eight hours of sleep a night, 

390
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,200
right? 
And I think, right, if, if I 

391
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:03,100
remember correctly, this, his 
statistic that he uses Matthew 

392
00:22:03,100 --> 00:22:09,700
Walker is, you know, surgeons 
who sleep 6 hours or fewer a 

393
00:22:09,700 --> 00:22:15,300
night or even one night? 
Their likelihood of making a 

394
00:22:15,300 --> 00:22:19,600
medical error. 
Goes up 170% the next day. 

395
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:25,100
Well, which is crazy. 
It's crazy. 

396
00:22:25,100 --> 00:22:29,100
And you think how many 
Physicians, not, not much less, 

397
00:22:29,100 --> 00:22:32,100
anybody else that how many 
Physicians are under slept or 

398
00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:36,000
sleep deficient? 
And how much of medical errors 

399
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:40,900
are driven by Sleep deficiency 
by nature of our medical system.

400
00:22:40,900 --> 00:22:42,700
We don't have to get on that. 
Tangent. 

401
00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:45,500
But like just by nature of our 
medical system, right? 

402
00:22:46,300 --> 00:22:48,400
So one night of sleep, does 
matter. 

403
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:53,100
I mean car accident car accident
incidents rates, go up on one 

404
00:22:53,100 --> 00:22:59,100
bad night of sleep, one of the 
stats that he just blew me away 

405
00:22:59,100 --> 00:23:05,200
with this is on daylight savings
time in the spring where we 

406
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,900
Spring Forward. 
And now we lose an hour of sleep

407
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,000
across the world. 
This is across the world. 

408
00:23:12,100 --> 00:23:15,300
Old. 
There is an uptick of about 20% 

409
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,600
of emergency department 
admissions for a cardiac event 

410
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,800
that night. 
In the spring, there is a 20% of

411
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:28,600
tech across the world conversely
in the in the fall when we 

412
00:23:28,900 --> 00:23:35,200
regain that hour of sleep, there
is about a 20 percent downtick, 

413
00:23:35,300 --> 00:23:39,400
in admissions to the to the Ed 
for cardiac events. 

414
00:23:40,300 --> 00:23:44,100
This is millions and millions of
people, so that can't be just a 

415
00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:47,100
coincidence, right? 
And obviously, there are other, 

416
00:23:47,100 --> 00:23:49,000
there are other factors to 
consider. 

417
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:53,100
So we can't treat this like a 
vacuum but that's really 

418
00:23:53,100 --> 00:23:55,400
alarming. 
So one night does matter. 

419
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,800
Wow. 
And you know, you've hit on a 

420
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,500
couple things to you've hit on 
kind of like a cognitive aspect 

421
00:24:01,500 --> 00:24:04,300
for like decision-making and 
then there's the very physical 

422
00:24:04,300 --> 00:24:09,000
aspect of the an extreme with 
with a cardiac event. 

423
00:24:09,100 --> 00:24:13,100
And so, Sleep doesn't just help 
us physically and helps us 

424
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,900
cognitively and emotionally. 
And all those things obviously 

425
00:24:15,900 --> 00:24:19,400
we're not these siloed humans. 
We have all of these things at 

426
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,800
coalesce together, so many of 
the other I think with daylight 

427
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:27,400
savings, there's also a huge 
increase in car crashes to in 

428
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,600
the spring if I'm remembering 
right. 

429
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,100
I heard a statistic, which would
go into kind of that cognitive 

430
00:24:32,100 --> 00:24:35,500
folk, maybe, focus and, and that
kind of thing. 

431
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:41,500
So, Obviously you want to avoid 
these moments of short-term, I 

432
00:24:41,508 --> 00:24:45,200
guess I have kind of two pronged
questions off of that is one is 

433
00:24:45,500 --> 00:24:48,500
what's enough? 
Like how much sleep is enough to

434
00:24:48,500 --> 00:24:51,900
get what you need? 
And the second is, what if you 

435
00:24:51,900 --> 00:24:55,100
do have a bad night of sleep, 
for one reason or another, how 

436
00:24:55,100 --> 00:24:58,400
can you make up for that? 
Or is there a way to make up for

437
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,200
it? 
Or do you just lose out and 

438
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:01,800
you're just setting yourself 
back? 

439
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,800
What should you do with that, 
right? 

440
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,700
So first question is, what do 
you do if you have a bad night 

441
00:25:06,700 --> 00:25:10,200
of sleep? 
Right in my mind. 

442
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:15,600
Me personally, I do everything I
can to try and just get back in 

443
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,800
my rhythm. 
The following day, I fight 

444
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,600
through that day, do everything 
I can just to do all the things 

445
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,600
I need to do, for my family for 
work and whatever and then I am 

446
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:32,700
making sure that I am obedient 
to my typical rhythm. 

447
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,000
At the end of that day, if not 
like, trying to shift it a 

448
00:25:36,008 --> 00:25:39,400
little bit earlier. 
And, and to the point of 

449
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,600
catching up, can we, can we Bank
sleep? 

450
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:48,400
Can we catch up on Lost sleep? 
And I think, you know, Matthew 

451
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,300
Walker, he's who I refer to on a
lot of stuff. 

452
00:25:50,300 --> 00:25:53,400
He's kind of the world's 
pre-eminent expert on this, but 

453
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,700
he would, he would say no, he's 
at Cal, right? 

454
00:25:57,900 --> 00:26:00,600
Yeah, he's a pussy Berkeley. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

455
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:01,600
Okay. 
I know exactly. 

456
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:02,400
Who is. 
Yep. 

457
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,900
Yeah. 
Okay, he would hear you say no 

458
00:26:04,900 --> 00:26:07,400
on the catching up thing, he 
would say no you can't catch us.

459
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,500
Sleep is not this. 
This bank that we have thought 

460
00:26:11,500 --> 00:26:13,600
it was for a long time or other 
people talk. 

461
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,100
I like, I like, you know, I'll 
sleep when I'm dead or, you 

462
00:26:16,100 --> 00:26:20,000
know, whatever, like I'll make 
up for it a couple days later. 

463
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:21,800
Whatever that doesn't 
physiologically, that doesn't 

464
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,900
happen. 
Once it's gone. 

465
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,200
It's gone. 
Now, you can reset and try to 

466
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,500
like, get yourself back into 
your typical Rhythm and I always

467
00:26:30,500 --> 00:26:33,300
advocate for that, but you're 
not going to catch up on. 

468
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,300
On on what you've lost. 
So it's not like you can have a 

469
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,500
55, our night, one night, and 
make up for it, for going for, 

470
00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:44,400
you know, 16 hours. 
The next night, I had a roommate

471
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:52,200
in college who came home at 7 
a.m. and slept until the next 

472
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,800
day at 8 a.m. there's a 25 hour 
sleep and it was the crate, it 

473
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,400
was the craziest thing. 
And I was like, what did that do

474
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,600
for yourself? 
I don't know what just happened,

475
00:27:01,700 --> 00:27:04,300
but you've been sleeping and I 
don't know how you didn't go to 

476
00:27:04,300 --> 00:27:08,500
the bathroom. 
But apparently, that hibernation

477
00:27:08,500 --> 00:27:19,100
idea, it was great because I was
around that day, it was not a 

478
00:27:19,100 --> 00:27:22,700
day that I was like gone a lot 
so like I know he was sleeping 

479
00:27:22,700 --> 00:27:26,600
like I he was out, he was gone. 
Sorry. 

480
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,200
So the other part of that 
question is what is enough? 

481
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:33,000
So like I gave the hypothetical 
of, maybe you get 5 and then you

482
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,900
try to double it or whatever. 
But what's enough Keep to try to

483
00:27:36,900 --> 00:27:40,000
work into as your routine to get
that reset that you need of all 

484
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,200
of those, all the hormone 
regulation and things like that.

485
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,100
Yeah. 
So the average adult's, I mean 

486
00:27:46,100 --> 00:27:49,900
it's different across across the
life span of the average adult 

487
00:27:51,100 --> 00:27:54,200
needs seven to nine hours. 
I think most of us know that, 

488
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,700
you know, there are some people 
who say, like a good David 

489
00:27:57,700 --> 00:28:00,400
Goggins, maybe it would say like
I could do anything. 

490
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,200
Do anything on four hours of 
sleeping? 

491
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,300
Like, yeah, you probably can 
probably can bow. 

492
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,300
What other ways you suffering 
for that? 

493
00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:11,200
So the average adult needs seven
to nine hours. 

494
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:15,500
If you're talking to a teenage 
endurance athlete, they need a 

495
00:28:15,500 --> 00:28:20,300
lot more because their bodies 
are doing so many crazy things 

496
00:28:20,300 --> 00:28:25,700
that I don't physiologically 
understand, they need a lot more

497
00:28:25,700 --> 00:28:27,800
sleep. 
They need to like 10 to 12 hours

498
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:33,200
of sleep, a night, the teenage 
endurance athletes which how 

499
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,300
many of them get that? 
Very, very few Let's just say, 

500
00:28:36,300 --> 00:28:39,500
you know, that ain't have no, 
no, like, 5:30 cross-country 

501
00:28:39,500 --> 00:28:41,400
practice, their they're up for 
that, they're probably going to 

502
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,800
bed at 10:00 at night or 11 
after homework or whatever, 

503
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,700
right? 
So they're not getting enough 

504
00:28:46,700 --> 00:28:49,900
sleep. 
Well, how, how do you recommend,

505
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,500
or I guess? 
Do you have a big hand and 

506
00:28:52,500 --> 00:28:55,900
working with that population 
with the with the high school 

507
00:28:55,900 --> 00:28:58,600
crowd or a lot of the people 
you're working with kind of more

508
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,900
adult, adult Runners? 
Most of my, most of my clients 

509
00:29:01,900 --> 00:29:06,300
are adult Runners. 
I do have a few who are Teenage 

510
00:29:06,300 --> 00:29:09,900
endurance athletes and the 
conversation with them is no 

511
00:29:09,900 --> 00:29:12,300
different. 
It's always like stress, sleep 

512
00:29:12,300 --> 00:29:15,600
nutrition hydration and that, 
you know, their stress is 

513
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,200
different than adults dressed 
sometimes. 

514
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,900
Much of the time, but the 
conversations are are the same. 

515
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:22,900
So, most of my clientele are 
adults. 

516
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:24,600
Okay, cool. 
Yeah. 

517
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,700
I work with a group of high 
schoolers during the off seasons

518
00:29:28,700 --> 00:29:32,100
in the winter and then in the 
summer, between cross country 

519
00:29:32,100 --> 00:29:35,400
and track. 
And I spend the whole first day,

520
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,600
Talking about the things that 
really matter which is like 

521
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:44,700
eating, well sleep like this 
this stuff and I was, I was 

522
00:29:44,700 --> 00:29:48,100
like, it finally felt like it 
clicked last time except the 

523
00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:49,300
last day. 
I said, what's the most 

524
00:29:49,300 --> 00:29:51,300
important thing that you feel 
like you learned? 

525
00:29:51,300 --> 00:29:53,700
And they all talked about 
sleeping and I was like, oh my 

526
00:29:53,700 --> 00:29:55,900
gosh, and drinking milk. 
I think they said, but that's 

527
00:29:55,900 --> 00:30:02,900
Wisconsin value, right? 
Looks like it's valuable. 

528
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,700
So I was I was like, this is 
this is great, but I think it's 

529
00:30:07,700 --> 00:30:10,900
so hard to be a high school 
endurance athlete. 

530
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,700
And even I feel like, even like 
young college, she a Collegiate 

531
00:30:14,700 --> 00:30:19,800
athlete, like the lifestyle in 
those ages is not one. 

532
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,700
That's conducive to living like 
this and getting 10 to 12 hours 

533
00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:25,700
of sleep to hang out with your 
friends. 

534
00:30:25,700 --> 00:30:28,100
You're hanging out late at 
night, you know? 

535
00:30:28,100 --> 00:30:31,200
You're playing video games or 
you're, you know, going too 

536
00:30:31,208 --> 00:30:33,900
late, not talk, late night, 
Taco, Bell, or whatever, you 

537
00:30:33,900 --> 00:30:37,400
know. 
So study, Or studying I guess 

538
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,400
some people do that to people do
study late. 

539
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:44,700
That is I forget that we have to
like study for school and stuff,

540
00:30:44,700 --> 00:30:49,300
I don't know, I'm just kidding. 
But give the kids some benefit 

541
00:30:49,300 --> 00:30:54,900
of a doubt doing Nate. 
Yeah, well I mean I think about 

542
00:30:54,900 --> 00:30:59,000
the it's the incidence of stress
fractures or relative Energy 

543
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,700
Efficiency that happens and 
teenage or Collegiate athletes. 

544
00:31:02,700 --> 00:31:07,400
Oh my God, yeah, David. 
You Add two of them Summit 

545
00:31:07,500 --> 00:31:10,800
summative. 
Yeah, some of us probably almost

546
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,100
certainly related to the 
lifestyle that that requires 

547
00:31:14,100 --> 00:31:17,700
does, it doesn't require. 
That's, that's silly to say, the

548
00:31:17,700 --> 00:31:22,200
culture that is endemic in that 
Arena, right of Collegiate, or 

549
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,200
high-level endurance. 
Athletics is just silly and is 

550
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,600
no wonder that you're having all
these athletes have strep 

551
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,500
multiple stress, fractures, or 
energy deficiency, or whatever, 

552
00:31:33,500 --> 00:31:35,300
it's silly. 
Yep. 

553
00:31:36,300 --> 00:31:40,400
So kind of in that adults again 
kind of going back to this kind 

554
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,000
of that 729. 
If you're younger, if you're in 

555
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,300
that kind of high school or 
Collegiate, you probably want to

556
00:31:45,300 --> 00:31:48,000
10 to 12 hours of sleep stress, 
especially when you're in 

557
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,300
season, but that's kind of just 
recommended across the board for

558
00:31:52,300 --> 00:31:53,900
just like your life at that 
phase. 

559
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,200
That my final question kind of 
on this short-term. 

560
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,500
Kind of if you have one night 
that's bad or a couple nights 

561
00:32:00,500 --> 00:32:04,000
that are bad, how much do you 
recommend that people change 

562
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,200
their running routine in In 
relation to their sleep 

563
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,000
deprivation. 
If you had one night, bad night 

564
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,400
of sleep, you're supposed to do 
a big workout, how do you 

565
00:32:11,500 --> 00:32:14,400
counsel people in that or what 
do you recommend for that? 

566
00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:22,500
Okay, yeah, that is that is such
a fluid conversation that I have

567
00:32:22,500 --> 00:32:26,400
quite regularly. 
I can tell you what I do for 

568
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:31,100
myself and then I will tell you 
how I advise my athletes for 

569
00:32:31,100 --> 00:32:34,300
myself. 
I am very conservative when I 

570
00:32:34,308 --> 00:32:39,500
have Crappy night of sleep. 
If I'm supposed to have a Tempo 

571
00:32:39,500 --> 00:32:44,500
work out the next day and I 
sleep five hours, right? 

572
00:32:44,500 --> 00:32:49,700
Or if I'm awake for two hours in
the middle of the night that 

573
00:32:49,700 --> 00:32:55,700
Tempo workout turns into an easy
run or like pseudo Tempo 

574
00:32:55,700 --> 00:32:58,800
workout. 
Not not the full thing, not 

575
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:03,000
necessarily because I'm afraid 
I'm going to injure myself but I

576
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:07,500
don't need to stack up stress 
upon Stress and to just 

577
00:33:07,500 --> 00:33:11,800
perpetuate that cycle. 
That's not healthy for me and I 

578
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,100
know I could tolerate the 
workout. 

579
00:33:14,100 --> 00:33:16,700
That's not the question. 
I'm just not trying to stack up 

580
00:33:16,700 --> 00:33:21,600
stress upon stress because that 
almost certainly will lead me to

581
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,700
an injury and that's kind of how
I advise my athletes back. 

582
00:33:24,700 --> 00:33:28,300
Okay, this is your decision, 
this is your training, it is 

583
00:33:28,300 --> 00:33:30,600
your body. 
I'm going to give you the 

584
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,800
information of stacking up 
stress upon stress and you can 

585
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:39,500
decide Yourself, what you need 
to do, you know? 

586
00:33:39,500 --> 00:33:41,500
So I'm not telling anybody what 
they have to do. 

587
00:33:41,500 --> 00:33:45,300
But here's the evidence, I think
something that that's super 

588
00:33:45,300 --> 00:33:49,400
interesting about that 
perspective is what you place 

589
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,000
more value on. 
Like I think that it's so easy 

590
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,500
for a lot of Runners some and I 
think I don't necessarily fall 

591
00:33:56,500 --> 00:33:59,700
into this so much anymore for 
myself, but it's so easy to 

592
00:33:59,700 --> 00:34:04,300
place top dollar value on the 
workout and the comp my 

593
00:34:04,300 --> 00:34:06,900
confidence level in myself. 
Would drop and plummet if I 

594
00:34:06,900 --> 00:34:11,000
don't get my scheduled workout 
in and so we say, I gotta just 

595
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:12,900
push through and get the workout
in because that's the most 

596
00:34:12,900 --> 00:34:15,500
valuable thing to me. 
Whereas, if you flip the script 

597
00:34:15,500 --> 00:34:18,500
and say, actually you need to be
recovered to be able to handle 

598
00:34:18,500 --> 00:34:21,300
that stress, and for at actually
have the benefit on your body 

599
00:34:21,300 --> 00:34:25,199
that you want, you have to 
create a different hierarchy, 

600
00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:29,400
where your recovery and you're 
like, Baseline level of health 

601
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,800
and cortisol levels, and all 
this stuff is in the rig and 

602
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,600
spot, so that you can go do 
that. 

603
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,800
Instead of saying, I'm going to 
do that thing because I have The

604
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,400
thing, it becomes less important
less valuable. 

605
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,199
So 100%, I want everybody who's 
listening to this podcast right 

606
00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:47,300
now to rewind 60 seconds and 
listen to that 5 more times. 

607
00:34:47,900 --> 00:34:52,000
Because if I could cash in this 
entire podcast with any one 

608
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,699
thing it is that that, you know,
it depends on what you value. 

609
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,300
And your next workout is only 
going to be as good as you 

610
00:35:00,300 --> 00:35:03,600
recovery and that progression 
that you're looking for, is an 

611
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,900
athlete isn't going to happen. 
The way you want, if you're 

612
00:35:06,900 --> 00:35:10,300
stacking the stress upon stress.
So what do you value? 

613
00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:12,500
Do you value? 
Knocking out the workout for the

614
00:35:12,500 --> 00:35:15,200
sake of your ego and thinking 
you're doing the right thing? 

615
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,400
Or do you value taking care of 
your body? 

616
00:35:18,500 --> 00:35:22,000
Looking longer term? 
And saying, okay, this is a day.

617
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,800
It's a day, it's a workout, give
it a break. 

618
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,800
Maybe you still run, but maybe 
it looks a little bit different 

619
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:31,700
and we live to fight hard 
another day. 

620
00:35:31,900 --> 00:35:33,800
Yeah. 
That's great. 

621
00:35:34,100 --> 00:35:36,100
David. 
What do you what do you what do 

622
00:35:36,100 --> 00:35:37,900
you do? 
I'm curious on your just 

623
00:35:37,900 --> 00:35:41,100
anecdotally your side of things.
It's a little bit tricky, right?

624
00:35:41,100 --> 00:35:44,500
Like I've got some teammates and
training partners that I work 

625
00:35:44,500 --> 00:35:45,900
out with. 
We have a coach, we have a 

626
00:35:45,908 --> 00:35:49,300
schedule, you know, I think what
you were talking about earlier 

627
00:35:49,300 --> 00:35:54,700
Ryan about looking at things 
forward prioritizing things and 

628
00:35:54,700 --> 00:35:57,700
having the knowledge available 
it's up to you in order to 

629
00:35:57,700 --> 00:36:03,800
execute those things. 
And I mean, if if Was really bad

630
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:10,400
and you had to pull from a 
workout or or let Coach know. 

631
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:14,600
Like you could. 
It's not like you couldn't it's 

632
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,000
just more so that like you just 
got to make sure you do the 

633
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,100
little things, right? 
Like every once in a while. 

634
00:36:20,100 --> 00:36:22,200
Like if it's once in a while, 
you're pulling from a workout or

635
00:36:22,208 --> 00:36:24,300
something, it's fine. 
But you just want to make sure 

636
00:36:24,300 --> 00:36:27,200
it's not a regular occurrence 
because obviously if that's 

637
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,100
happening regularly, something's
up, right? 

638
00:36:29,100 --> 00:36:34,300
Like whether it's from recovery,
And point sleep standpoint, 

639
00:36:34,300 --> 00:36:38,000
training standpoint, whatever, 
you know, like or maybe, or 

640
00:36:38,008 --> 00:36:39,800
maybe you were sick or something
like that. 

641
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,100
Every once in a while there's 
the bad day and there's not 

642
00:36:42,100 --> 00:36:46,100
really a great explanation for 
it and then sometimes things 

643
00:36:46,100 --> 00:36:48,400
come back around. 
And I'm like, oh, that was why 

644
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:53,700
like hindsight's 20/20, right? 
Like but no. 

645
00:36:53,700 --> 00:36:55,400
I mean, that's definitely how we
approached it. 

646
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,600
I was totally proud. 
I was going to say that I was 

647
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,300
going to say. 
So I know back and also our 

648
00:36:59,300 --> 00:37:04,100
topic, my bad but it's all good.
In because obviously, like the 

649
00:37:04,100 --> 00:37:08,300
way we operate, like it's a 
pretty finite. 

650
00:37:08,300 --> 00:37:11,900
Like, it's a pretty fragile line
there, like building the 

651
00:37:11,900 --> 00:37:13,800
mileage. 
Maintaining that kind of a 

652
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:19,300
volume making sure that the 
workouts the intensity is there.

653
00:37:19,700 --> 00:37:22,500
Not just for maintenance, but 
we're getting better, you know? 

654
00:37:22,500 --> 00:37:28,900
And with that said, I think the 
way that I choose to look at it 

655
00:37:28,900 --> 00:37:32,500
is, I know the workload is going
to be there and like we're all 

656
00:37:32,500 --> 00:37:36,000
full, Time like people write 
like this isn't I'm not a 

657
00:37:36,008 --> 00:37:37,900
professional athlete by any 
means. 

658
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:43,400
So like looking at it from that 
standpoint, I know my work day 

659
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,600
is probably going to be more 
work than the actual running 

660
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,700
itself. 
So I actually try to set myself 

661
00:37:48,700 --> 00:37:53,200
up in a way that like how can I 
get through the total day and 

662
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,500
feel okay? 
That's usually sleep and eat 

663
00:37:55,500 --> 00:37:56,400
yogurt. 
Yes. 

664
00:37:56,500 --> 00:37:59,200
Sleeping more eating more. 
That's usually what it comes 

665
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,000
down to. 
And we were talking about things

666
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,300
earlier in the Cast. 
And one of the things I noticed 

667
00:38:04,300 --> 00:38:07,900
in myself when I start getting 
inklings of those things and I 

668
00:38:07,900 --> 00:38:11,300
was I was laughing a little bit.
When you said waist down and 

669
00:38:11,300 --> 00:38:13,400
shoulder up I was like Runners 
get shoulder injuries. 

670
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,300
They get naked. 
Like, they'll tighten up in the 

671
00:38:15,300 --> 00:38:17,900
Trap from coli. 
Like, there's things that could 

672
00:38:17,900 --> 00:38:23,100
happen, but like I've seen Molly
Seidel is tape there. 

673
00:38:23,100 --> 00:38:25,100
I've seen Galen Rupp was 
shoulder tape. 

674
00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:27,800
I've seen some pretty high level
athletes, you know what shoulder

675
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:32,900
injuries, but I'll notice it 
myself with like, if my Her. 

676
00:38:32,900 --> 00:38:36,000
And my hip, and my foot all hurt
at the same time. 

677
00:38:36,500 --> 00:38:38,800
It's like, I'm probably not 
recovering. 

678
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,200
Well, you know, it's like 
multiple body parts. 

679
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,600
There's no reason for me to be 
like, tired, fatigued and 

680
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,100
hurting and all of these 
different places. 

681
00:38:46,100 --> 00:38:49,900
All at the same time, you know, 
like, I didn't take a hard fall 

682
00:38:49,900 --> 00:38:53,200
off of something. 
I didn't like, there's no 

683
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,500
noticeable reason for why that 
could be happening. 

684
00:38:55,500 --> 00:38:59,300
So I try to look at it more from
the big picture and I try to 

685
00:38:59,300 --> 00:39:05,100
look at it more as my, my daily 
life beyond The Run itself and 

686
00:39:05,100 --> 00:39:07,100
can I actually do I have enough 
recovery. 

687
00:39:07,100 --> 00:39:10,000
Don't have enough food in my 
able to do all of the things 

688
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,500
that's necessary of me to to be 
a good runner to be a good 

689
00:39:14,500 --> 00:39:19,400
employee and very soon. 
Be a good husband like it can I 

690
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:24,700
check those boxes and and be a 
functioning human being and be 

691
00:39:24,700 --> 00:39:28,800
the best human being I can. 
And if things start to falter 

692
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,100
and I started seeing some of 
those signs that and I recognize

693
00:39:32,100 --> 00:39:33,600
that myself. 
I'm someone that works a lot, I 

694
00:39:33,608 --> 00:39:36,900
do a lot of things. 
I have a lot of hobbies, like I 

695
00:39:36,900 --> 00:39:39,700
have to start noticing those 
inklings and pay attention to 

696
00:39:39,700 --> 00:39:41,200
those things. 
And when I start recognizing 

697
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,000
those science, it's time to take
a step back. 

698
00:39:43,700 --> 00:39:49,800
Obviously board. 
Hobbies like tacos Pokemon or 

699
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:58,200
which Brandon's coming back 
wood-burning so yeah, right I've

700
00:39:58,200 --> 00:39:59,600
got another question for you 
too. 

701
00:39:59,900 --> 00:40:03,000
So when it comes to this kind of
short-term effects, We've kind 

702
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,000
of been talking about one night 
matters, one night matters. 

703
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,200
There's not really a way to make
up for it. 

704
00:40:10,300 --> 00:40:13,600
Is there a role of are like, 
what is the role of napping? 

705
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,900
Maybe it's the question. 
And does that fall into this 

706
00:40:16,900 --> 00:40:20,100
kind of short term effects if 
you're having one of these kind 

707
00:40:20,100 --> 00:40:23,500
of higher, stress days? 
I guess what's the role of naps?

708
00:40:23,900 --> 00:40:26,900
Yeah. 
Oh man we're talking to like the

709
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:28,900
athletes to put in tons of 
mileage. 

710
00:40:28,900 --> 00:40:32,100
The don't sleep a lot. 
We're talking to the new moms 

711
00:40:32,100 --> 00:40:32,900
and dads. 
Is it? 

712
00:40:32,900 --> 00:40:35,000
Don't sleep a lot. 
We're talking to people that 

713
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,800
just work crazy hours. 
So, you know, this is, this is 

714
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:39,600
life. 
We're not all sleeping eight 

715
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,700
hours every single night. 
That's just not, it's not 

716
00:40:42,700 --> 00:40:46,900
realistic and I understand that.
So yeah, you have to give 

717
00:40:46,900 --> 00:40:49,600
yourself some affordances and 
your day today so you can 

718
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,600
operate like the human that you 
need to operate. 

719
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,300
So hell. 
Yes, napping. 

720
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:00,100
Absolutely. 
But what does that need to look 

721
00:41:00,100 --> 00:41:03,200
like, right? 
There's one of the One of the 

722
00:41:03,300 --> 00:41:08,100
hormones involved with sleep, 
it's called adenosine, and it's 

723
00:41:08,100 --> 00:41:12,300
effectively this, this hormone 
that allows their creates, 

724
00:41:12,900 --> 00:41:18,000
what's called Sleep, pressure or
like your capacity to want to 

725
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,900
sleep. 
And so, as adenosine Stacks up 

726
00:41:20,900 --> 00:41:26,100
on you or accumulates during the
day, then you're more likely to 

727
00:41:26,100 --> 00:41:29,300
want to sleep. 
However, if you feel like you 

728
00:41:29,300 --> 00:41:32,500
get a crappy night of sleep and 
you want a nap, please. 

729
00:41:32,700 --> 00:41:37,000
Take one but don't take it at 
5:00 and sleep for an hour 

730
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:42,000
because that resets some of the 
clock on adenosine, relieves the

731
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:46,500
valve on that sleep pressure. 
So it's going to be harder for 

732
00:41:46,500 --> 00:41:49,100
you to get a decent night's 
sleep. 

733
00:41:49,300 --> 00:41:52,300
Like you're expecting to you're 
not going to get your seven to 

734
00:41:52,300 --> 00:41:56,800
nine hours probably that night 
if you're sleeping for 30 

735
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:58,900
minutes or whatever, it is at 
5:00. 

736
00:41:59,300 --> 00:42:04,100
So take a nap after your crappy 
night of But make it earlier in 

737
00:42:04,100 --> 00:42:09,300
the day if you can and keep it 
short like 20, 30 minutes max. 

738
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:16,300
You know, when I will never 
forget after we had our son, I 

739
00:42:16,300 --> 00:42:20,100
was a freaking zombie as many 
parents are many. 

740
00:42:20,100 --> 00:42:24,700
New parents are right. 
Like oh, it's I remember in 

741
00:42:24,700 --> 00:42:29,100
backhoe boy it. 
The newborn base is just it's 

742
00:42:29,100 --> 00:42:32,500
insane. 
And our son was born in. 

743
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:36,500
Larry, and I remember like 10 
degree days in February just 

744
00:42:36,500 --> 00:42:39,200
going out to my car. 
I would wrap up in every puffy 

745
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,600
thing I had and just sleep for 
20 minutes in my car, at noon. 

746
00:42:43,900 --> 00:42:48,600
Because I was so tired. 
I couldn't, I was stuttering and

747
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:52,100
I don't have a stutter. 
I was like, mixing mixing words 

748
00:42:52,100 --> 00:42:54,100
up? 
And I don't typically do that. 

749
00:42:54,500 --> 00:42:59,800
So, I was just kind of a 
cognitive buffoon and doing 

750
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:04,000
these 20 30 minute naps help me.
Reset. 

751
00:43:04,700 --> 00:43:08,500
So I can survive the workday and
then just do it all over again. 

752
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,000
So if you can take a nap, yes, 
please do. 

753
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:16,700
If you feel like you need it, 
make it before like 1:00 or 2:00

754
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,700
and keep it short. 
So your adenosine can stack back

755
00:43:19,700 --> 00:43:23,000
up on you and you have a sleep 
pressure, building towards the 

756
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:28,900
end of the day and so naps have 
more to do with the Denizen than

757
00:43:28,900 --> 00:43:32,100
they do with like cortisol, 
resets, or do you know, if naps 

758
00:43:32,100 --> 00:43:34,300
also Impact the cortisol as 
well. 

759
00:43:34,300 --> 00:43:38,300
I mean, sleep is sleep. 
So, I would imagine that an app 

760
00:43:38,300 --> 00:43:41,400
even though it would be 20 or 30
minutes, would have some 

761
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:45,000
appreciable or measurable 
effect, measurable effect on a 

762
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,500
cortisol reset. 
Why wouldn't it you're not going

763
00:43:48,500 --> 00:43:54,500
to get the Deep REM sleep or 
whatever necessarily that it 

764
00:43:54,500 --> 00:43:56,100
takes? 
You take their bodies a while to

765
00:43:56,100 --> 00:44:00,500
get into, but it I would imagine
Matthew Walker, would know, much

766
00:44:00,500 --> 00:44:02,500
more than I would on this, but I
do. 

767
00:44:02,700 --> 00:44:07,100
I would imagine that fit it does
do some measurable effect on 

768
00:44:07,100 --> 00:44:11,100
cortisol, cool. 
So we've kind of talked about 

769
00:44:11,100 --> 00:44:13,800
this short-term stuff, maybe 
some strategies. 

770
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,300
If you're coming out of it, you 
might have to modify some stuff.

771
00:44:16,500 --> 00:44:19,600
Again, if your if you're a young
parent or if you're in a season 

772
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,400
where like regular sleep just 
doesn't come maybe you work 

773
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,900
night shift and you have to like
switch back and forth you know 

774
00:44:25,900 --> 00:44:28,900
if you know these are seasons. 
I think it's worth sounds like 

775
00:44:28,900 --> 00:44:32,200
it's worth considering what are 
you training for and why right 

776
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:33,800
now? 
And maybe it's not the time to 

777
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,300
go and try to break a new record
or run a new distance for the 

778
00:44:37,300 --> 00:44:39,900
first time just because your 
body isn't getting the stuff it 

779
00:44:39,900 --> 00:44:42,300
needs based on what I've learned
to hear from you Ryan. 

780
00:44:42,300 --> 00:44:46,600
So kind of those are short-term 
things when this becomes a 

781
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,800
pattern and you kind of 
reference, the idea of these 

782
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:53,800
high school kids who are having 
these different, you know, are 

783
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:55,900
having to skip a lot of workouts
because I didn't sleep. 

784
00:44:55,900 --> 00:44:58,600
Well, if that becomes a habit 
and we're not getting good, 

785
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,700
sleep regularly. 
Are there is there a build-up 

786
00:45:01,700 --> 00:45:04,100
effect of these? 
Native impacts on our body or 

787
00:45:04,100 --> 00:45:06,600
what's happening to us. 
If we have long-term kind of 

788
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,000
sleep deprivation or you know, 
bad sleeping habits. 

789
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:15,100
Yeah, oh boy. 
So many things, you know, poor 

790
00:45:15,100 --> 00:45:18,000
consistent. 
Poor sleep is correlated with 

791
00:45:18,500 --> 00:45:21,400
mental health and depression. 
It's correlated with heart 

792
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,200
disease. 
It's correlated with diabetes 

793
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:28,800
and obesity. 
It's it is it underpins almost 

794
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:35,200
every single aspect of our 
health, So, repetitive poor 

795
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:42,800
sleep is one of the worst things
we can do to ourselves and to 

796
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:46,000
avoid that stacking up. 
You just have to have a routine.

797
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,900
I don't know if that's your 
question necessarily, but the 

798
00:45:49,900 --> 00:45:53,900
the long-term effects of poor 
sleep are really, really 

799
00:45:53,900 --> 00:45:56,500
harmful. 
They're starting to find 

800
00:45:56,500 --> 00:46:01,900
linkages to so many chronic 
diseases or conditions that we 

801
00:46:01,900 --> 00:46:05,600
didn't realize before that are 
linked to consistent hoarsely. 

802
00:46:05,900 --> 00:46:09,200
I think one thing that we can 
add up on that too is just 

803
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,100
taking a look at our nervous 
system, right? 

804
00:46:11,100 --> 00:46:15,200
And cortisol in high amounts is 
normally associated with the 

805
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,800
sympathetic response, right? 
Sympathetic being your fight or 

806
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,400
flight type of response. 
So, it's like, if you're running

807
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,500
from a tiger, you're running a 
race, you're in a high-stress 

808
00:46:24,500 --> 00:46:26,400
work environment. 
Don't you need that? 

809
00:46:26,500 --> 00:46:29,800
That's good. 
But you need it in small 

810
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,000
amounts. 
You need to in controlled 

811
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,300
amounts and when that's 
something that's up regulated. 

812
00:46:34,300 --> 00:46:38,200
All of the time are 
neurochemistry, the way our 

813
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:41,300
brain operates that our home or 
hormones operate the way we 

814
00:46:41,300 --> 00:46:46,800
operate starts to change and 
there's just such a high 

815
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,000
prevalence of a lot of things 
that go on from long exposure to

816
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,800
that and you already touched on 
a lot of those but like the 

817
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,700
amount of comorbidities There's 
some link and even like some 

818
00:46:57,700 --> 00:47:00,800
autoimmune cases think like all 
kinds of things that could 

819
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,800
happen and gene expression and 
how your body reacts can go like

820
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,400
wildfire when you're exposed to 
cortisol for high amounts for 

821
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,000
high at periods of time. 
So I think it's great to get 

822
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,100
that reset. 
It's good to know those signs in

823
00:47:14,100 --> 00:47:16,000
yourself and to look out for 
those types of things. 

824
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,700
And that's so go ahead. 
Ryan now, you're 100% correct. 

825
00:47:20,700 --> 00:47:23,400
I'm so glad you mentioned the 
sympathetic nervous system that 

826
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:29,000
that drives our fight-or-flight,
Ponce and it's the Sleep Quality

827
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:30,600
sleep. 
Consistent quality sleep. 

828
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:35,200
That helps regulate that. 
And if we're in this consistent 

829
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:40,300
elevated state of fight or 
flight, it is so difficult to 

830
00:47:40,300 --> 00:47:42,900
bring ourselves out of that and 
it drives. 

831
00:47:42,900 --> 00:47:46,500
So many other things, it drives 
anxiety, it drives heart 

832
00:47:46,500 --> 00:47:48,800
disease, it drives a ton of 
stuff. 

833
00:47:49,300 --> 00:47:53,900
So sleep, underpins all of that.
Right. 

834
00:47:53,900 --> 00:47:56,700
And it underpins like that that 
sympathetic nervous system that 

835
00:47:56,700 --> 00:47:59,400
fight or flight response. 
If we're constantly in that 

836
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,900
we're in trouble, we're doing 
ourselves way more harm than 

837
00:48:03,900 --> 00:48:08,500
good by doing this, like Rise & 
Grind for, I was asleep, I can 

838
00:48:08,500 --> 00:48:11,300
do anything on four hours of 
sleep, kind of kind of mode, 

839
00:48:11,300 --> 00:48:12,300
right? 
It's terrible. 

840
00:48:12,500 --> 00:48:17,200
So you've got me thinking a 
little bit about you've talked 

841
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:22,300
about stress is stress and 
stacking stress and Like there's

842
00:48:22,300 --> 00:48:26,100
different kinds of stress 
running is a physical stress, 

843
00:48:26,100 --> 00:48:28,000
there's work, which is emotional
stress. 

844
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,800
And I often hear people like a 
lot of the runners I work with. 

845
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,800
And in this is includes me. 
We run to relieve stress, but it

846
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,500
also is stress. 
So how do you balance kind of 

847
00:48:39,500 --> 00:48:44,100
that reality of like this is all
and it all relates to cortisol. 

848
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:48,200
It sounds like it like from a 
from a level on the kind of like

849
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,200
endocrine level it all relates 
to cortisol because it's just 

850
00:48:51,500 --> 00:48:54,800
Reese in our amount of cortisol.
So how does running actually 

851
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:59,300
play into stress reduction? 
And then how do you kind of like

852
00:48:59,300 --> 00:49:01,200
manage the amount of stress in 
your life? 

853
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,500
Like what strategies can we have
to not have too high of elevated

854
00:49:04,500 --> 00:49:08,000
cortisol which is putting us in 
that you know fight-or-flight 

855
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:11,900
spot and maybe as you've said 
like doesn't allow us to sleep 

856
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,700
so I guess take that as you 
want. 

857
00:49:14,700 --> 00:49:17,800
Even know what my question is. 
It's a lot of questions, but how

858
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:21,300
do you think how does stress is 
sleep reduction Earth? 

859
00:49:21,700 --> 00:49:25,100
Running as stress reduction but 
it's also stressed the same 

860
00:49:25,100 --> 00:49:26,600
time. 
Like how do you reconcile those 

861
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:28,200
things? 
How do people drive down there, 

862
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,700
stress? 
What kind of tips do you have 

863
00:49:30,700 --> 00:49:35,600
for that Ryan? 
Yeah, I I think I just wanted to

864
00:49:35,700 --> 00:49:37,900
set up a metaphor here, like 
when we take a look at a 

865
00:49:37,908 --> 00:49:42,400
building, a lot of people take a
look at, like, stacking Brick by

866
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:46,000
Brick by Brick. 
We're building and each workout 

867
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:47,800
each day. 
Everything we're doing is a 

868
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,900
brick, right? 
But a brick, let's say you end 

869
00:49:50,900 --> 00:49:53,000
up getting a brick house, right?
Like let's say that you build 

870
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:54,900
this thing. 
It's only as good as the 

871
00:49:54,900 --> 00:49:58,500
foundation, that it stands upon 
and of the foundation, isn't 

872
00:49:58,500 --> 00:50:00,000
there? 
And it's crumbling, and it's 

873
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,300
underneath, you any little thing
can make that whole. 

874
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:05,600
Bingo. 
And so, even though you're doing

875
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:10,500
a lot of work, sometimes you're 
like, staying on this fine line 

876
00:50:10,500 --> 00:50:14,200
is thin ice and things can just 
break and crumble underneath 

877
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:15,100
you. 
And if you don't have a good 

878
00:50:15,100 --> 00:50:17,900
foundation, like there's not 
much to build off of at a 

879
00:50:17,900 --> 00:50:21,800
certain point it's going to 
break and yeah that's all 

880
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:23,300
laughs. 
I picture. 

881
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,900
That's that's a good analogy. 
I think that's perfect. 

882
00:50:25,900 --> 00:50:29,000
Yeah everybody referred are not 
everybody, but a lot of people 

883
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,300
refer to their workouts or the 
work that they do in training. 

884
00:50:32,500 --> 00:50:34,200
As bricks like Another Brick in 
the Wall. 

885
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:35,200
Today. 
Another Brick in the Wall. 

886
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:36,700
All right? 
Like, yeah, that's good. 

887
00:50:36,700 --> 00:50:42,000
It's percent. 
But to your point a stack of 

888
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:46,600
bricks on a pile of sand is just
a stack of bricks, right? 

889
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:50,600
So the foundation of that 
training, that stack of bricks 

890
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,300
that you want to turn into a 
house for an epic performance 

891
00:50:53,300 --> 00:50:57,100
for yourself is only going to be
as good as your recovery, which 

892
00:50:57,100 --> 00:51:00,500
is underpinned by sleep. 
So you have to have it and 

893
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,600
Nathan, I think. 
Your question about the 

894
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,200
conversation of running is 
stress, right? 

895
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:10,400
It's physical stress, but we 
also do it for mental health 

896
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:15,500
reasons and kind of release or 
relief, or whatever you want to 

897
00:51:15,508 --> 00:51:18,900
call it. 
I have this conversation all the

898
00:51:18,900 --> 00:51:28,500
time all the time, and I try to 
capture in a way not to put any 

899
00:51:28,500 --> 00:51:33,700
blame on running, but people 
need to understand that. 

900
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,600
Yes, running can help, manage 
our anxiety. 

901
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:40,800
I run to manage my own anxiety. 
And anxiety is the number one 

902
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:44,500
reason insomnia exists or 
disrupted sleep exists. 

903
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,300
It is the number one reason. 
So we have to manage the anxiety

904
00:51:48,900 --> 00:51:52,100
and a lot of us run to do that. 
So I have very much get it. 

905
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,600
I run to do that. 
It's the only place my mind is 

906
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,900
ever quiet. 
And I hear that from so many 

907
00:51:58,900 --> 00:52:02,000
people so you have to have the 
running but the running is 

908
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:06,100
physical stress and so you are 
effectively elevating your 

909
00:52:06,100 --> 00:52:09,300
cortisol level by the act of 
running. 

910
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,200
So how do we like walk that line
and I asked looks like, what 

911
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:15,100
else do you do for stress 
relief? 

912
00:52:16,100 --> 00:52:18,400
And quite often. 
It's just a exercise. 

913
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:21,800
Great. 
Great, I'm a physical therapist.

914
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:27,800
I love hearing that. 
However, what other things you 

915
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:29,900
do to? 
Like, take the pressure off, 

916
00:52:29,900 --> 00:52:33,600
take your stress level, from an 
eight, down to a five, or 

917
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,700
whatever the scale is like, I 
don't care about the numbers on 

918
00:52:36,700 --> 00:52:38,800
a scale. 
Like how do you turn down the 

919
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:43,900
volume? 
And it's amazing to me how few 

920
00:52:43,900 --> 00:52:49,200
people have other coping 
mechanisms outside of exercise. 

921
00:52:49,300 --> 00:52:52,500
Sighs. 
And I encourage everyone to plug

922
00:52:52,500 --> 00:52:55,600
into other. 
Like yes, please keep moving 

923
00:52:56,300 --> 00:52:57,100
for. 
Love of God. 

924
00:52:57,100 --> 00:53:00,000
Keep moving. 
But you need to have other 

925
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:05,200
things outside of just exercise 
to manage your stress and to 

926
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:09,400
manage your anxiety because the 
exercise does elevate your 

927
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:14,500
cortisol level, and cortisol, 
disrupts your sleep right or our

928
00:53:14,500 --> 00:53:16,500
mismanaged, cortisol disrupt 
your sleep. 

929
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:21,800
So things that are call me. 
Nature versus high intensity, 

930
00:53:22,500 --> 00:53:25,800
right breathing? 
I talk a lot in my treatment 

931
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,800
sessions of my coaching sessions
about just breathing and 

932
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:34,000
breathing strategies throughout 
a person's work day or life, you

933
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,600
know, journaling or meditation 
or listening to music, or 

934
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:42,100
playing with your kid, or 
petting, a dog, like calming 

935
00:53:42,100 --> 00:53:49,500
things that just bring your 
overall energy level or Petit 

936
00:53:49,500 --> 00:53:53,300
level down the turn down the 
volume and it's amazing to me 

937
00:53:53,300 --> 00:53:58,300
how few people engage with those
types of calming things in lieu 

938
00:53:58,300 --> 00:54:00,900
of exercise. 
I'm glad you provided a list, a 

939
00:54:00,900 --> 00:54:03,100
list there because I was, I was 
just trying to think about like 

940
00:54:03,100 --> 00:54:05,700
what are some of those things. 
And it sounds like there are 

941
00:54:05,700 --> 00:54:09,400
some, that can easily be worked 
into pretty much any lifestyle 

942
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,400
because those types of things 
are going to exist, whether if 

943
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,900
it's intentional breathing or 
meditation, or if you have a 

944
00:54:13,908 --> 00:54:18,000
dog, or if you have a kid that 
you can spend time with, that's 

945
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,400
really encouraging. 
I was wondering if you know. 

946
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,600
So so I was at a parenting 
conference and they were talking

947
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:29,600
about when you talk to your kids
for every one negative thing 

948
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:35,600
that they hear from you about 
them to hear one positive thing,

949
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:40,800
it takes nine positives. 
So for everyone, like criticism 

950
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,900
to your child, they need nine 
positive, things about them, 

951
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:48,200
that would create them as like 
I'm even in the sight of my 

952
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:50,500
parent. 
Which I found is like a really 

953
00:54:50,500 --> 00:54:52,900
big. 
That's that's crazy but it 

954
00:54:52,900 --> 00:54:54,600
really obviously stuck out to 
me. 

955
00:54:55,300 --> 00:54:57,300
I bring that up because I'm 
wondering if there is something 

956
00:54:57,300 --> 00:55:00,000
like that in the in this 
recovery, in this sleep and 

957
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,700
recovery room. 
So if you're adding stress from 

958
00:55:02,700 --> 00:55:05,900
running and work are there 
certain kind of benchmarks, you 

959
00:55:05,900 --> 00:55:09,400
can meet when it comes to like 
these calming activities or a 

960
00:55:09,408 --> 00:55:13,100
certain amount of time or number
of activities that you should 

961
00:55:13,100 --> 00:55:18,400
try to fit in at any particular 
day that that kind of counteract

962
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:19,900
the stress that you put Your 
life for? 

963
00:55:19,900 --> 00:55:21,500
Do you have recommendations for 
that? 

964
00:55:22,300 --> 00:55:26,200
Yeah, I think it's an excellent 
way to phrase it because we do 

965
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:28,000
need to do some work to 
counteract. 

966
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,500
The the high stress that we put 
on ourselves physically or 

967
00:55:30,508 --> 00:55:33,800
emotionally. 
I don't have a benchmark for 

968
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,500
people because I think that adds
to the stress, to be quite 

969
00:55:36,500 --> 00:55:38,000
honest. 
It's just like, it's another 

970
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:39,300
thing. 
All right. 

971
00:55:39,700 --> 00:55:43,300
Our lives are full of lists and 
things to do. 

972
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,200
Yeah. 
Like you don't want sitting from

973
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:48,800
your coach or physical therapist
be like you need to do. 

974
00:55:49,300 --> 00:55:52,400
Items, a b and c and if you 
don't do it, you're gonna die if

975
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:56,500
atherosclerosis or something 
like, that's a terrible way to 

976
00:55:56,500 --> 00:55:59,100
phrase it, right? 
That's not going to happen, but 

977
00:55:59,500 --> 00:56:05,200
that's just adds more anxiety. 
So, I tell people how I have 

978
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:08,100
this conversation is as their 
homework. 

979
00:56:08,300 --> 00:56:12,800
I asked them to make a menu and 
keep it as simple as possible. 

980
00:56:12,900 --> 00:56:18,900
Make a menu of three to four 
things that bring you Joy and 

981
00:56:18,900 --> 00:56:21,400
it. 
To be a non physical activity. 

982
00:56:21,900 --> 00:56:26,200
Relic relatively not physical, 
it may not exercise based right 

983
00:56:26,300 --> 00:56:29,600
things that bring you Joy. 
It can be going for a really 

984
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:33,100
leisurely walk around the park. 
It can be petting your dog and 

985
00:56:33,100 --> 00:56:35,800
you be listening to music 
playing music and to be knitting

986
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,900
coloring. 
I don't care, just make a 

987
00:56:38,900 --> 00:56:41,700
physical list. 
And I say this to, this is 

988
00:56:41,700 --> 00:56:43,900
verbatim. 
I look them in dead in the eye 

989
00:56:43,900 --> 00:56:50,100
and say, write this shit down. 
I'm very serious because If we 

990
00:56:50,100 --> 00:56:52,800
don't, and I like, oh yeah, I'm 
gonna like think of these three 

991
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,100
or four things and we let it 
live in our head. 

992
00:56:55,100 --> 00:56:57,600
And then the time comes to do 
the thing. 

993
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:03,000
We're not going to do it for a 
lot of reasons, much much less 

994
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:07,500
having to make another friggin 
decision during the day, right? 

995
00:57:07,500 --> 00:57:10,700
So, take the Des, take the 
decision out of it, right? 

996
00:57:10,700 --> 00:57:13,700
The list down, keep it at your 
bathroom, vanity at your 

997
00:57:13,700 --> 00:57:17,400
nightstand, somewhere, very 
accessible to you. 

998
00:57:17,700 --> 00:57:20,200
Three or four things. 
And you could you just get to 

999
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:23,100
choose that's the beauty of it. 
It's really hot. 

1000
00:57:23,100 --> 00:57:25,600
What sounds good. 
I got like five minutes of pet 

1001
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:29,700
my dog or playing a like Legos 
with my kit whatever you know 

1002
00:57:29,700 --> 00:57:32,300
you shouldn't have to like think
about those things but sometimes

1003
00:57:32,300 --> 00:57:38,600
we do so making that physical 
list and letting it live 

1004
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:44,000
somewhere accessible to you is 
huge and it's amazing to me that

1005
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:48,000
response I've gotten from people
like, oh my God, this is the 

1006
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:51,500
simplest thing in the world. 
But it's changed everything 

1007
00:57:52,300 --> 00:57:55,100
because it takes down there 
anxiety in a way, that's not 

1008
00:57:55,100 --> 00:57:58,900
exercise based, and that doesn't
immediately Elevate their 

1009
00:57:58,900 --> 00:58:02,800
cortisol. 
So, it's in, it just turns into 

1010
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:05,000
a habit and the list could be 
fluid, right? 

1011
00:58:05,300 --> 00:58:07,800
You let the list live, rest, 
three or four things and then 

1012
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:09,400
like, wow, that doesn't really 
feel great. 

1013
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:11,400
So I'm going to take that out. 
Put this other thing yet. 

1014
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:14,000
Great. 
Do that, right? 

1015
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,600
Let it be yours. 
That's great. 

1016
00:58:17,900 --> 00:58:20,700
Cool. 
So you got to make the Stress 

1017
00:58:20,700 --> 00:58:23,400
Management, Stress Management 
menu, love it. 

1018
00:58:23,500 --> 00:58:25,500
Write it down. 
Write it down everybody. 

1019
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:30,500
So there's actually a lot more 
that we wanted to talk about, 

1020
00:58:30,500 --> 00:58:33,100
but we're coming, were coming 
down on time here. 

1021
00:58:33,100 --> 00:58:35,500
So I've got a couple other 
topics for you. 

1022
00:58:35,500 --> 00:58:38,900
And the first one is, if you're 
someone maybe who's listening to

1023
00:58:38,900 --> 00:58:41,600
this, who just has thought a lot
about sleep and knows that you 

1024
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:48,700
have a bad sleep pattern, what 
sort of What's a good starting 

1025
00:58:48,700 --> 00:58:51,100
spot for like preparing your 
body to sleep? 

1026
00:58:51,100 --> 00:58:54,100
And if you want to start a new 
like sleeping Rhythm or pattern,

1027
00:58:54,300 --> 00:58:56,900
what kind of recommendations do 
you have for them? 

1028
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:02,400
Yeah, the biggest thing I tell 
folks is you need to have 

1029
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:06,500
consistent time in which you go 
to bed and I don't care. 

1030
00:59:06,500 --> 00:59:10,600
If it's a Tuesday or a Saturday,
something that within like a 

1031
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:14,500
30-minute window. 
I don't have research for that. 

1032
00:59:14,500 --> 00:59:18,500
That's just purely anecdotal to 
keep Keep consistency, honestly,

1033
00:59:18,900 --> 00:59:22,800
something in a 30-minute window.
You very consistently go to bed,

1034
00:59:23,100 --> 00:59:24,600
right? 
And have a little bit of a 

1035
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:27,900
routine around back and I can 
talk Ad nauseam about what that 

1036
00:59:27,900 --> 00:59:30,700
routine could look like. 
But just have a little bit of a 

1037
00:59:30,708 --> 00:59:35,400
system to it, right. 
The other thing is temperature 

1038
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:36,900
regulation. 
I think that's something a lot 

1039
00:59:36,900 --> 00:59:39,500
of people Miss. 
I think that's a thing. 

1040
00:59:39,500 --> 00:59:43,900
A lot of Partners or bicker back
and forth with each other about 

1041
00:59:43,900 --> 00:59:46,500
like I'm always hot. 
My wife is consistently. 

1042
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:50,100
Runs a little cooler than air. 
Yeah cooler than I do. 

1043
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:52,900
So we bicker back and forth 
about the thermostat all the 

1044
00:59:52,908 --> 00:59:57,600
time, if it's hot or if I'm hot,
I cannot sleep. 

1045
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:02,000
I will not sleep. 
So I have to find some way to 

1046
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:06,200
get my body to cool down and 
there's hormonal responses with 

1047
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:08,100
that too that we could talk 
about when they have to right 

1048
01:00:08,100 --> 01:00:12,000
now, but to just allow myself to
sleep. 

1049
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:16,400
So have routine a regular time 
in which you start your process.

1050
01:00:16,500 --> 01:00:20,700
Us and temperature regulation 
obviously, it's got to be dark 

1051
01:00:21,700 --> 01:00:26,500
that obviously helps some people
do the noise machines and all 

1052
01:00:26,500 --> 01:00:29,500
this but we don't have to go 
into those nuances. 

1053
01:00:29,500 --> 01:00:33,900
Just have a regular routine 
start time kind of thing and 

1054
01:00:33,900 --> 01:00:35,400
temperature. 
Regulation those are. 

1055
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:40,100
Those are my big things. 
Is your b top to what about? 

1056
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:44,800
So like, what are your thoughts 
on like reading in bed or screen

1057
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:47,500
time in bed or kind of like what
What should that? 

1058
01:00:47,500 --> 01:00:49,300
Like, I'm going to go to bed at 
10:00. 

1059
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:52,300
Should it be go to bed and fall 
asleep, or can it be go to bed 

1060
01:00:52,300 --> 01:00:57,000
and like, watch a show in bed or
read a book or those different 

1061
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:58,900
things or just your thoughts on 
that. 

1062
01:00:58,900 --> 01:01:03,000
Yeah, my personal opinion. 
I'm not trying to sound like 

1063
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:07,900
super puritanical about this, 
but like, I will never have a PT

1064
01:01:07,900 --> 01:01:11,000
Arabic TV in my bedroom. 
I'll always have a PT in my 

1065
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:13,700
bedroom. 
I am one, but I will never have 

1066
01:01:17,700 --> 01:01:20,300
Can't escape that way. 
I know I know so bad. 

1067
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:24,500
I'm sorry about that but I will 
never have a TV in my bedroom 

1068
01:01:24,700 --> 01:01:28,900
just because that that 
attentional Focus to a screen 

1069
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:33,200
distract my brain from all the 
neurotransmitter and hormonal 

1070
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:35,700
processes. 
That is trying to go through to 

1071
01:01:35,700 --> 01:01:39,700
even get to bed. 
It's pulling my brain away from 

1072
01:01:39,700 --> 01:01:41,300
that process, that it wants to 
be. 

1073
01:01:41,300 --> 01:01:45,500
And so I'm not watching shows 
and bed. 

1074
01:01:45,500 --> 01:01:48,200
I admit I do have a little 
screen time in bed. 

1075
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:51,000
I try to limit that I'm like, 
kind of scrolling through my 

1076
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:56,800
phone for the news for the day, 
but I try to limit that to about

1077
01:01:56,800 --> 01:02:00,600
five minutes and then I'm done, 
everybody does it. 

1078
01:02:00,700 --> 01:02:02,500
We all do it, many of us do 
anyway. 

1079
01:02:03,500 --> 01:02:06,200
You know, we need to limit that 
as much as possible because it 

1080
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:09,900
just pulls your brain away from 
the hormonal and 

1081
01:02:09,900 --> 01:02:12,300
neurotransmitter process that it
wants to be in. 

1082
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:16,100
So everybody makes a big deal 
about the blue light or 

1083
01:02:16,100 --> 01:02:17,700
whatever. 
And it's not really as much 

1084
01:02:17,700 --> 01:02:20,600
about the light as it is about 
what's on the screen and what 

1085
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:23,700
you're asking your brain to do. 
So, it could be any. 

1086
01:02:23,700 --> 01:02:25,900
So rich, go ahead, David, there 
you go. 

1087
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:29,600
I will say there's something to 
be said as well about not having

1088
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:33,200
the TV in the bedroom that 
unconsciously your brain. 

1089
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:35,300
Knows is a time and place for 
things and you're like, living 

1090
01:02:35,300 --> 01:02:38,300
room where Lively. 
We're doing things, you go into 

1091
01:02:38,300 --> 01:02:43,600
the bedroom, you like it's time 
for bed, we are winding down. 

1092
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:46,400
We're not going to be engaging 
in these activities. 

1093
01:02:46,500 --> 01:02:48,700
Anymore. 
Whether it's an unconscious 

1094
01:02:48,700 --> 01:02:49,900
Temptation thing. 
I don't know. 

1095
01:02:49,900 --> 01:02:51,600
This is anecdotally speaking, 
right? 

1096
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:54,200
I don't have any hard science 
behind what I'm saying right now

1097
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:58,000
but for me it's it went the 
second I leave there and I'm in 

1098
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:01,300
the room and the lights off and 
I hit the bed, you know, like 

1099
01:03:01,900 --> 01:03:04,300
it's time to go to bed. 
That's great. 

1100
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:09,400
So I mean it what's crazy about 
this conversation is a lot of 

1101
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:13,000
the research in science that 
you've brought up sounds like 

1102
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:16,900
it's not just on Runners. 
This is just like what Happens 

1103
01:03:16,900 --> 01:03:20,900
to people when you do or do not 
sleep, but I'm guessing, there's

1104
01:03:20,900 --> 01:03:25,100
also research in relation to 
running or Sports Performance. 

1105
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:28,600
So what do we know about how 
sleep or lack of sleep? 

1106
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:31,600
Impacts kind of? 
This is kind of the last topic 

1107
01:03:31,700 --> 01:03:33,400
and then I have one final 
question for you. 

1108
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:36,900
But kind of, let's talk about 
how sleep and performance 

1109
01:03:37,100 --> 01:03:39,900
interact with each other. 
Oh my gosh, it's hot. 

1110
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:42,900
I mean, I like on a day-to-day 
level going back to that like 

1111
01:03:42,900 --> 01:03:46,300
one night of sleep and followed 
up by a hard. 

1112
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:49,700
Right? 
You have a Tempo workout that 

1113
01:03:49,700 --> 01:03:54,700
you've done before that, you're 
familiar with that next day, you

1114
01:03:54,700 --> 01:03:59,200
know, I do a lot of my running 
work based on rpe rate of 

1115
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:02,400
perceived exertion and that same
tempo. 

1116
01:04:02,500 --> 01:04:06,500
Whatever the mileage is, it may 
feel like an eight that day. 

1117
01:04:06,500 --> 01:04:11,000
Whereas the last time I did it, 
it felt like a 6 right on a bad 

1118
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:12,900
night of sleep. 
So it's just going to be a lot 

1119
01:04:12,900 --> 01:04:16,300
harder potentially to get the 
same. 

1120
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:20,900
Same level of performance out of
that workout after a bad night 

1121
01:04:20,900 --> 01:04:22,600
of sleep. 
So that's absolute on a 

1122
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:24,700
day-to-day level. 
That's how it affects 

1123
01:04:24,700 --> 01:04:27,900
performance. 
You know, if we stack stress 

1124
01:04:27,900 --> 01:04:31,600
upon stress, like we were 
talking about earlier and 

1125
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:39,100
repeated loss of sleep, the 
research behind increased injury

1126
01:04:39,100 --> 01:04:43,900
risk in. 
Athletes, is abundant and I 

1127
01:04:43,900 --> 01:04:46,000
forget exactly what the number 
is. 

1128
01:04:46,500 --> 01:04:52,400
But lack of sleep is responsible
for almost a two-fold increase 

1129
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:57,200
in injury risk in any athlete. 
It doesn't matter if you're an 

1130
01:04:57,200 --> 01:04:59,900
endurance athlete or an impact 
athlete or whatever. 

1131
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:03,100
It's almost a two-fold increase 
in injury risk. 

1132
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:05,800
If you're poorly. 
Slept. 

1133
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:11,300
So, it has huge implications for
performance and just staying off

1134
01:05:11,300 --> 01:05:13,300
of a PT stable or out of a 
doctor's office. 

1135
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:14,900
Yeah. 
Wow. 

1136
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:18,600
Cool. 
Well, I have one final question 

1137
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:24,800
for you and this is because we 
have both David and yourself 

1138
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:27,300
here. 
So I think we talked about the I

1139
01:05:27,300 --> 01:05:29,800
think you guys talked about this
before when I was not on the 

1140
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:32,800
show. 
But is it burritos or is it 

1141
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:34,900
tacos? 
Like if you could only have one 

1142
01:05:34,900 --> 01:05:40,000
in the world which one stays in 
which one goes Ryan? 

1143
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:42,100
You get to start. 
Oh man, you're gonna make me go 

1144
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:44,700
burritos. 
I am burritos all day. 

1145
01:05:44,700 --> 01:05:48,600
Give me. 
Supposed 100%, the, why the 

1146
01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:51,800
verse what's? 
Why the burrito and a burrito. 

1147
01:05:52,400 --> 01:06:01,400
Oh my God. 
I don't know, I I think I have 

1148
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:05,700
a, I have a cavernous mouth and 
it just is nice to take a 

1149
01:06:06,100 --> 01:06:10,600
massive bite of a burrito. 
I feel like a taco, you kind of 

1150
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:13,100
just have to like, nibble at a 
little bit and or else it falls 

1151
01:06:13,100 --> 01:06:15,900
apart in your hands and it's 
just too silly. 

1152
01:06:15,900 --> 01:06:18,200
You could you could take a 
cavern as a vitamin talking. 

1153
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:24,300
That's how I meant to be eaten. 
I don't know it, you're done. 

1154
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:27,300
Yeah, I think that's all. 
Also, the annoying part is like 

1155
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:30,900
Gimme More, Gimme More. 
Don't get me like beautiful 

1156
01:06:30,900 --> 01:06:32,800
part. 
You can try something new. 

1157
01:06:33,900 --> 01:06:35,800
I suppose that's true. 
I suppose. 

1158
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:39,100
That's true. 
Ryan's to ride. 

1159
01:06:39,100 --> 01:06:41,400
Don't be too nice. 
You don't be too nice. 

1160
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:44,800
The David you gotta let him have
it for me. 

1161
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:49,000
I left the tortilla makes the 
burrito right? 

1162
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:53,600
If it's a if it's a Well Done. 
Tortilla the burritos everything

1163
01:06:55,200 --> 01:07:00,400
and I enjoy getting through all 
of that tortilla instead of this

1164
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:03,100
like little bite-sized thing 
that a taco is right. 

1165
01:07:03,100 --> 01:07:06,400
Like, I don't know if you're 
gonna, if you're going to get 

1166
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:09,100
after it on your Tempo workouts.
You got to fill up, man. 

1167
01:07:09,300 --> 01:07:10,800
David, I just don't think you're
eating enough. 

1168
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:18,700
Oh, man. 
David Gest - it's about to take 

1169
01:07:18,700 --> 01:07:22,200
any little jab at me that he 
possibly can on a daily basis. 

1170
01:07:24,700 --> 01:07:27,300
I feel like I'm the one that 
gets trolled for real, though. 

1171
01:07:27,700 --> 01:07:29,300
Like, yeah. 
I feel like that's real. 

1172
01:07:29,300 --> 01:07:31,800
You more than you told me. 
That's probably true. 

1173
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:33,100
Yeah, no. 
That's true. 

1174
01:07:33,100 --> 01:07:37,000
That's definitely true. 
Not even kind of true that when 

1175
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:40,000
you said, what kind of shoe that
each of us were and you gave me 

1176
01:07:40,008 --> 01:07:43,200
a compliment. 
I was, I was flabbergasted. 

1177
01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:46,400
I was like, I can't believe he 
didn't give me like The five 

1178
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:49,400
fingers or something, like, I 
just thought you'd give me 

1179
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:52,000
something that you control me 
for, but you actually gave me a 

1180
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:55,500
really great shoe and said it 
because I was like, the dad of 

1181
01:07:55,500 --> 01:07:58,400
the group. 
So, but David, give us one one 

1182
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:01,200
minute. 
I'm why tacos over burritos and 

1183
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:04,300
then I'll wrap things up for us.
Yeah, I mean, there's no reason 

1184
01:08:04,300 --> 01:08:07,300
why you can't take cavernous 
bites of taka, is right? 

1185
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:12,600
There's so many different 
varieties to Tacos, like, it 

1186
01:08:12,608 --> 01:08:16,100
doesn't have to be this tiny 
little Street Taco that you They

1187
01:08:16,100 --> 01:08:19,500
give you something bigger, 
whether it's a homemade 8-inch 

1188
01:08:19,500 --> 01:08:21,100
corn, tortilla it, give you a 
flour tortilla. 

1189
01:08:21,100 --> 01:08:29,800
I've had plenty of great flower 
tacos as well but you can go 

1190
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:31,700
through as well. 
Like you there's so many 

1191
01:08:31,700 --> 01:08:36,399
different variants that you can 
do for tacos and then you can 

1192
01:08:36,399 --> 01:08:39,700
have your cake and eat it too. 
Like you can have a solid you 

1193
01:08:39,700 --> 01:08:44,200
can out of Pollo you can have 
Barbacoa you know you can have 

1194
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:46,500
fast or it like you can have 
whatever you You want on the 

1195
01:08:46,500 --> 01:08:49,100
menu that day and you don't have
to feel bad about it because, 

1196
01:08:49,100 --> 01:08:52,399
you know, you can eat four or 
five of those tacos and it's 

1197
01:08:52,399 --> 01:08:56,200
going to match up to one boring 
Pollo burrito, like it's gonna. 

1198
01:08:57,500 --> 01:09:00,100
So what you're saying is just 
don't like, you just don't like 

1199
01:09:00,100 --> 01:09:03,000
to commit to one type. 
Oh here it is. 

1200
01:09:03,100 --> 01:09:07,300
Oh no, I'm happy to commence at 
34 tacos of the same kind. 

1201
01:09:08,100 --> 01:09:10,300
It's not what I want for that 
day, right? 

1202
01:09:10,300 --> 01:09:17,399
Like to make that decision. 
Rock into it. 

1203
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:22,500
Not to say that there's not 
great burritos in the world, but

1204
01:09:22,500 --> 01:09:28,500
like I can, I can choose exactly
what I want across the menu and 

1205
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:30,500
they don't all have to be street
tacos. 

1206
01:09:30,500 --> 01:09:32,899
Like at least hear a lot of the 
menus here, have different kinds

1207
01:09:32,899 --> 01:09:34,899
of tacos as well. 
Like, they're not all like 

1208
01:09:34,899 --> 01:09:37,000
little ones, some of them are 
bigger, some of them have 

1209
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:41,000
fillings in them, some of them, 
you know, like yeah, great, 

1210
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:43,000
thanks. 
I don't own this also a Taqueria

1211
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:46,300
that just opened up like I mean 
it's got to be less than 400 

1212
01:09:46,300 --> 01:09:48,200
meters from me, it's definitely 
walking distance. 

1213
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:50,000
So yes. 
Dangerous. 

1214
01:09:55,200 --> 01:10:00,000
Yes, I measure thinking m i can 
Runner and minute 15 seconds 

1215
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:07,400
faster depending on if you're 
wearing your new balance or if 

1216
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:12,200
you're wearing your Super Shoes.
Yeah great Vans move pretty 

1217
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:15,000
quick. 
If you want if you want to spice

1218
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:21,700
your Flats right well Ryan thank
So much for joining us again and

1219
01:10:21,700 --> 01:10:25,500
talking about sleep. 
I just I loved I learned a lot 

1220
01:10:25,500 --> 01:10:27,400
from you today. 
Just learning about kind of how 

1221
01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:29,600
this integrates into the life of
a runner. 

1222
01:10:29,700 --> 01:10:33,200
I think that, you know, the you 
just do such a. 

1223
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:36,600
I can tell you're a PT like us 
because your responses to the 

1224
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:40,000
questions are very 
individualized and, you know, 

1225
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:43,400
there's not quick fixes to 
anything and it's figuring out 

1226
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:45,200
how do all these things fit into
your life. 

1227
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:47,100
So I always appreciate your 
wisdom and your thoughts. 

1228
01:10:47,100 --> 01:10:50,600
So thanks again for joining us. 
Correct me if I'm wrong on any 

1229
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:55,600
of this but Ryan again he just 
opened his new clinic in Denver 

1230
01:10:55,900 --> 01:11:00,100
or Denver area but also you can 
find them online at long-run 

1231
01:11:00,100 --> 01:11:04,500
physio, if you're looking on 
Instagram, but did I kind of say

1232
01:11:04,500 --> 01:11:06,400
some of that stuff right to why 
don't you tell people about your

1233
01:11:06,408 --> 01:11:08,800
website and you want to let him 
speak for himself? 

1234
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:10,000
Yeah. 
Sorry. 

1235
01:11:11,100 --> 01:11:14,200
I was trying to be a good host, 
but I was just watching it. 

1236
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:15,700
That's all right, it's all 
right. 

1237
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:19,500
Yeah, so located in Denver. 
Proper Revo. 

1238
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:23,500
PT Denver. 
You can find me at long run 

1239
01:11:23,500 --> 01:11:28,600
physio or at Reve opt Denver on 
Instagram. 

1240
01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:32,500
I do both revoke, ET Denver's 
the business side of things. 

1241
01:11:33,500 --> 01:11:36,900
So left, love to focus on 
Runners and we are going to 

1242
01:11:36,900 --> 01:11:39,100
continue focusing on Runners 
going forward. 

1243
01:11:39,100 --> 01:11:41,500
So glad to see you guys forever.
In town. 

1244
01:11:41,500 --> 01:11:43,100
Come check us out. 
Great will do. 

1245
01:11:43,100 --> 01:11:46,500
Thanks so much again for joining
us and I didn't think I'd ever 

1246
01:11:46,500 --> 01:11:49,900
hear the word, cavernous said, 
so many times one podcast Just 

1247
01:11:49,900 --> 01:11:54,200
so thank you for that as well. 
And we'll talk to y'all later. 

1248
01:11:54,300 --> 01:11:56,500
Have a great night morning day.