1 00:00:07,919 --> 00:00:10,720 Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Doctors of Running podcast, 2 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:13,746 where we, a group of doctors of physical therapy, discuss the 3 00:00:13,746 --> 00:00:17,152 art and science of running and the stuff that we put on our 4 00:00:17,152 --> 00:00:20,474 feet today at the round table. We have just a duo. 5 00:00:20,474 --> 00:00:23,280 Dr. David Salas and myself, I'm Nathan Brown. 6 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:27,035 We're always thankful to Rabbit Apparel for powering this 7 00:00:27,035 --> 00:00:31,108 podcast and making it happen. We are super thankful for their 8 00:00:31,108 --> 00:00:32,952 partnership. And if you're looking for any 9 00:00:32,952 --> 00:00:35,976 good gear for the winter, one of the favorite things that I've 10 00:00:35,976 --> 00:00:39,405 bought that I personally bought from them over five years ago 11 00:00:39,405 --> 00:00:41,679 now is their tights. They're thicker tights. 12 00:00:41,679 --> 00:00:44,110 I wear them all the way through the winter. 13 00:00:44,110 --> 00:00:46,000 So that's my shout-out for the day. 14 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:50,400 If you're wanting 10% off your order during the month of 15 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,200 November, you can use the code DOR10. 16 00:00:53,679 --> 00:00:58,720 And that'll get you 10% off of any order over $50. 17 00:00:58,719 --> 00:01:04,263 So, David, I'm going to put you on the spot because a day of 18 00:01:04,263 --> 00:01:09,020 recording was New York Marathon. I didn't have any chance to 19 00:01:09,020 --> 00:01:11,920 watch or follow with just what our day has been. 20 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,874 There were other cool stuff in cr in the cross country world 21 00:01:14,874 --> 00:01:17,310 yesterday. Over here it was the Wisconsin 22 00:01:17,310 --> 00:01:19,865 State Championships. Stevens Point won their fifth 23 00:01:19,865 --> 00:01:22,932 straight state championship. They're j and their top three 24 00:01:22,932 --> 00:01:25,040 runners are underclassmen, I think, right now. 25 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,920 So it's just kind of wild the culture that they've got. 26 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,484 And then it was the like division three conference 27 00:01:31,484 --> 00:01:35,786 championships yesterday, and a kid from UWSP took first in the 28 00:01:35,786 --> 00:01:38,139 conference. That's a tough conference with 29 00:01:38,139 --> 00:01:42,095 La Crosse is in there, and they're usually up there 30 00:01:42,095 --> 00:01:44,400 competing in nationally in the division three level. 31 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:48,099 Stevens Point this year is in the top ten in terms of rankings 32 00:01:48,099 --> 00:01:51,119 and what they're performing at. So they've been they've been 33 00:01:51,119 --> 00:01:53,679 really turning turning things in a cool direction. 34 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,480 But all that said, you gotta you gotta fill me in. 35 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:00,128 I know it's gonna be ten days after this when this releases, 36 00:02:00,128 --> 00:02:03,595 but what are your takeaways from the New York City Marathon? 37 00:02:03,595 --> 00:02:08,416 You want me to just fill you in on like all NYC marathon like 38 00:02:08,416 --> 00:02:10,479 now on air? I know nothing. 39 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:15,258 I need the I need the like the two minute what do I need to 40 00:02:15,258 --> 00:02:16,149 know? Oh man. 41 00:02:16,149 --> 00:02:20,348 A lot happened. All I saw was things were crazy. 42 00:02:20,348 --> 00:02:22,850 Yeah, in the chat. Yeah, because they were crazy. 43 00:02:22,850 --> 00:02:24,240 Okay. Well let's start off. 44 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:26,340 We'll start off on the woman's side. 45 00:02:26,340 --> 00:02:29,040 So you had a battle to the very end. 46 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,440 I'm blanking on the woman's name who won. 47 00:02:31,439 --> 00:02:34,240 I'm so sorry. She's an Adidas athlete. 48 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,230 Ran phenomenal, was duking it out with Hellen Obiri basically 49 00:02:37,230 --> 00:02:42,000 all the way to the end, and then it came out to a kickoff. 50 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:46,992 However, just right off of them, like just racing her heart out, 51 00:02:46,992 --> 00:02:50,336 was Jess McClain. And just barely hanging on for 52 00:02:50,336 --> 00:02:53,592 dear life to them, like just keeping contact, like not even 53 00:02:53,592 --> 00:02:57,943 on them, and just kicked with everything she had and out 54 00:02:57,943 --> 00:03:01,840 kicked Hellen Obiri and got second at the line. 55 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,844 Yeah, so that was pretty wild. That's fine. 56 00:03:04,844 --> 00:03:06,719 So that was cool. Yeah. 57 00:03:06,719 --> 00:03:13,583 So Jess McClain getting second, and then in the men's marathon, 58 00:03:13,583 --> 00:03:18,457 Andreas Almgren, Swedish athlete, in his debut marathon 59 00:03:18,457 --> 00:03:22,560 goes and wins. Which is I feel like it's news, 60 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,960 but at the same time, anyone who's been following the running 61 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,240 scene, Almgren is fit, like fit AF fit. 62 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,840 I mean, he's been running really, really freaking well on 63 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:38,034 everything that has not been the marathon up to this point in the 64 00:03:38,034 --> 00:03:41,176 last year. He won the half marathon world 65 00:03:41,176 --> 00:03:44,664 road ch. So he was coming off a 66 00:03:44,664 --> 00:03:48,880 fifty-nine on that course and like he was ready to roll. 67 00:03:48,879 --> 00:03:52,990 And I think it was one of those races where he just wanted to 68 00:03:52,990 --> 00:03:58,020 put himself in it and just go for it, knowing New York isn't a 69 00:03:58,020 --> 00:04:00,640 PR-heavy course. Which is perfect. 70 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:05,097 I think that was actually like the game plan that he wanted and 71 00:04:05,097 --> 00:04:06,775 needed. I feel like if you just put 'em 72 00:04:06,775 --> 00:04:09,108 on a course where they're gonna go run two oh one, it's like if 73 00:04:09,108 --> 00:04:12,230 you haven't run a marathon before, unless you're Yomif 74 00:04:12,230 --> 00:04:15,920 Kejelcha apparently, like you're gonna go you're not probably 75 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,132 you're probably not gonna run, you know, a winning time on that 76 00:04:19,132 --> 00:04:22,504 course or of whatever that is, whether it be Chicago or Berlin 77 00:04:22,504 --> 00:04:25,279 or something. So to go out there and run. 78 00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:28,079 I don't know if it was just under two oh six or two oh six. 79 00:04:28,079 --> 00:04:31,423 It was like two oh five fifty nine ish as he was coming 80 00:04:31,423 --> 00:04:34,754 across. So and I think what was 81 00:04:34,754 --> 00:04:38,885 impressive about his race specifically, too, was like in 82 00:04:38,885 --> 00:04:43,070 the last mile, he opened up probably a 15-second gap or 83 00:04:43,070 --> 00:04:46,420 something like that. Like he ripped it open in like 84 00:04:46,420 --> 00:04:49,199 the last 800 meters. It looked like a track race. 85 00:04:49,199 --> 00:04:52,319 You know, with how fast he was turning over at the end there. 86 00:04:52,319 --> 00:04:56,791 So that was pretty cool to see. And then Top American on the 87 00:04:56,791 --> 00:04:59,199 men's side, I believe was Zouhair Talbi. 88 00:04:59,199 --> 00:05:03,875 Yeah, I believe that was it two oh seven or two oh six high. 89 00:05:03,875 --> 00:05:06,880 I gotta go back and look at the results. 90 00:05:06,879 --> 00:05:09,772 I literally watched this like live and then like didn't look 91 00:05:09,772 --> 00:05:12,910 at it again. So I'm like results are kind of 92 00:05:12,910 --> 00:05:15,925 flushed in my head. Conner Mantz didn't come in 93 00:05:15,925 --> 00:05:19,586 super far off of that. Weini Kelati, I believe it was 94 00:05:19,586 --> 00:05:22,560 her debut marathon, and she ran pretty darn well. 95 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,520 I think she I want to say she was top five. 96 00:05:25,519 --> 00:05:30,770 Yeah, but just McClain podium, you know, getting second, huge 97 00:05:30,770 --> 00:05:35,335 Almgren winning in his first marathon and being a major, you 98 00:05:35,335 --> 00:05:38,002 know, is pretty crazy. I think those are probably the 99 00:05:38,002 --> 00:05:40,000 two big storylines. Hellen Obiri did not three-peat, 100 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,400 you know, I think, but she put it out there. 101 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,215 I mean, it was kind of a crazy. I think the women's race was 102 00:05:46,215 --> 00:05:49,689 probably the most exciting of the bunch because her and the 103 00:05:49,689 --> 00:05:53,452 other athlete from Adidas like they were duking it out for 104 00:05:53,452 --> 00:05:57,679 about a mile where like Hellen would try to break her and then 105 00:05:57,679 --> 00:05:59,599 the other one wouldn't break, and then the other one goes and 106 00:05:59,599 --> 00:06:01,700 Hellen's hanging on and then she goes again, you know, and it 107 00:06:01,700 --> 00:06:04,240 just kind of this like yo yo all the way to the finish. 108 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,659 And like I said, McClain was kind of just hanging on for dear 109 00:06:07,659 --> 00:06:10,698 life and just kept enough contact to keep it close until 110 00:06:10,698 --> 00:06:14,448 that final, you know, two to four hundred ish meters and was 111 00:06:14,448 --> 00:06:19,287 able to just close it, close it, close it, and right at the line 112 00:06:19,287 --> 00:06:20,771 got Obiri. So Cool. 113 00:06:20,771 --> 00:06:21,884 Yeah. Fun race. 114 00:06:21,884 --> 00:06:27,536 I look I looked up the name. I don't know if I'll pronounce 115 00:06:27,536 --> 00:06:30,590 it correctly. Sheila or Shyla Chepkirui. 116 00:06:30,590 --> 00:06:31,608 Okay. Yeah. 117 00:06:31,608 --> 00:06:35,680 So if people can help us with that. 118 00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:39,557 Adios Pro Evo on that one. And then on to keep this shoe 119 00:06:39,557 --> 00:06:42,275 related, you know, Cloudboom Strike Hyper had two podium 120 00:06:42,275 --> 00:06:46,110 finishes today with Obiri getting third and then Crippa 121 00:06:46,110 --> 00:06:49,710 from Italy getting second. Crippa's also an interesting 122 00:06:49,710 --> 00:06:52,295 runner. I feel like he's one of those 123 00:06:52,295 --> 00:06:55,648 guys where he's just been running really good and no one 124 00:06:55,648 --> 00:06:58,296 talks about him. I feel like he's been on the 125 00:06:58,296 --> 00:06:59,640 court. Like, I'll be honest, this is my 126 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,064 first time hearing his name. Yeah, like Almgren, I feel like 127 00:07:02,064 --> 00:07:04,959 has had a little bit more publicity about him around him. 128 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:09,280 But like Crippa has been like on the world cross country scene, 129 00:07:09,280 --> 00:07:12,088 has been running insane. He's been running good on the 130 00:07:12,088 --> 00:07:13,680 track too. It's not like he hasn't. 131 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,136 It's just hard when other guys are running, you know, twelve 132 00:07:16,136 --> 00:07:18,160 thirty or twelve forty or something and you're running 133 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,080 twelve fifty or twelve forty high. 134 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,320 I don't know. It's hard these days. 135 00:07:22,319 --> 00:07:25,608 I feel like you can run really, really well and and still kind 136 00:07:25,608 --> 00:07:27,120 of get overshadowed a little bit. 137 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,046 I'm not sure what his 10K PR is, but I mean he's been running 138 00:07:30,046 --> 00:07:33,312 well on the track and on the roads for long distance and 139 00:07:33,312 --> 00:07:37,024 cross country he's been doing really, really well. 140 00:07:37,024 --> 00:07:38,416 So cool. Yeah. 141 00:07:38,416 --> 00:07:40,319 Awesome. Well thank you for bringing me 142 00:07:40,319 --> 00:07:42,239 into the world of what was going on. 143 00:07:42,239 --> 00:07:44,399 That's more fun than going and reading an article. 144 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:48,240 I'd rather get the David update. I wish I followed it closer, 145 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,015 knowing now. I kind of woke up and was like, 146 00:07:51,015 --> 00:07:52,880 Oh crap, the New York Marathons today. 147 00:07:52,879 --> 00:07:57,189 Let me go see if it's I caught the women's like last mile 148 00:07:57,189 --> 00:07:59,121 literally. Like 'cause you know, on the 149 00:07:59,121 --> 00:08:02,322 East Coast they're ahead then from where we are, and then so 150 00:08:02,322 --> 00:08:06,550 it's like if you wake up early ish, you can catch the race 151 00:08:06,550 --> 00:08:09,294 here. So yeah, I caught the very end 152 00:08:09,294 --> 00:08:13,619 of those races. But yeah, super cool racing all 153 00:08:13,619 --> 00:08:17,462 around and you know, a nice major. 154 00:08:17,462 --> 00:08:20,440 Yeah, great. Well, let's move into our 155 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:22,936 in-for-testing segment. What have you been testing and 156 00:08:22,936 --> 00:08:25,120 what have you been thinking about it? 157 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,700 Yeah, or lack of testing. I mean if you guys caught the 158 00:08:27,700 --> 00:08:28,771 previous episode. Oh that's true. 159 00:08:28,771 --> 00:08:30,903 I forgot. Yeah, if you caught the previous 160 00:08:30,903 --> 00:08:32,639 episode, I I took a pretty hard fall. 161 00:08:32,639 --> 00:08:36,308 Today will mark two weeks from the date of the fall, and I 162 00:08:36,308 --> 00:08:40,063 didn't run at all until today. So I ran for the first time this 163 00:08:40,063 --> 00:08:41,092 morning. Oh, you did? 164 00:08:41,092 --> 00:08:42,635 I did run. Good for you. 165 00:08:42,635 --> 00:08:46,360 Yeah, I ran two miles. Just nice and easy. 166 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:50,213 And it was okay. You know, the first few steps I 167 00:08:50,213 --> 00:08:52,233 could feel that lateral malleolus and kind of the areas 168 00:08:52,233 --> 00:08:54,951 around there a little bit where it was it was getting a little 169 00:08:54,951 --> 00:08:57,919 spooky where I was like I don't know how this is gonna go, but 170 00:08:57,919 --> 00:09:00,668 let's get around the corner and let's just let's just see how it 171 00:09:00,668 --> 00:09:02,204 goes. And it ended up being all right, 172 00:09:02,204 --> 00:09:04,661 you know, once I got about four to eight hundred meters in, I 173 00:09:04,661 --> 00:09:07,229 was like, okay, I'm all right, you know. 174 00:09:07,229 --> 00:09:10,879 And I just just easy running, two miles, that's it. 175 00:09:10,879 --> 00:09:15,484 And I guess I'll just talk about that for the in-for-testing 176 00:09:15,484 --> 00:09:18,016 right now. I have a list of shoes that I 177 00:09:18,016 --> 00:09:19,920 would like to run in, you know, coming up. 178 00:09:19,919 --> 00:09:24,440 And I'm excited to get some miles on now that I am 179 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,320 officially back. For one day. 180 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:28,723 We'll see how that goes tomorrow, how I feel. 181 00:09:28,723 --> 00:09:31,120 But I imagine I'll be all right. We'll see. 182 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:35,384 But I ran in the K-Swiss Shad-X. So this is a different model 183 00:09:35,384 --> 00:09:38,000 than the one you're probably gonna hold up. 184 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,760 I was gonna talk about it. Yeah, so this one is the one. 185 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,360 It retails at $75. Just a simple EVA trainer. 186 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,818 Honestly, it's Not bad, like for being 75 bucks. 187 00:09:47,818 --> 00:09:50,892 This is kind of where trainers were just a few years ago, I 188 00:09:50,892 --> 00:09:53,060 feel like, in that $120, $130 realm. 189 00:09:53,060 --> 00:09:57,075 So, like, it's not bad. You know, I think it's pretty 190 00:09:57,075 --> 00:09:59,605 good. The upper locks down decently 191 00:09:59,605 --> 00:10:03,069 well. It's got a kind of a softer 192 00:10:03,069 --> 00:10:06,432 plush upper to it. It doesn't like, I would say 193 00:10:06,432 --> 00:10:08,856 it's a decent lockdown. It doesn't feel super snug, like 194 00:10:08,856 --> 00:10:11,520 your foot moves around a tiny bit, but it's it's pretty solid. 195 00:10:11,519 --> 00:10:15,040 Just a basic EVA trainer, not super rockered on this one. 196 00:10:15,039 --> 00:10:20,292 One of the ones that I'm excited to try, actually, keeping it in 197 00:10:20,292 --> 00:10:23,120 the K-Swiss lineup is the S-Echo Soft. 198 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:27,548 I've worn it around standing and walking, and just like I said 199 00:10:27,548 --> 00:10:31,000 with the Shad-X, like I'm assuming I think they're going 200 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,186 for Shadow, but it's like Shad-X, you know what I mean? 201 00:10:34,186 --> 00:10:39,520 Like the way it's written now. But this is the S-Echo Soft. 202 00:10:39,519 --> 00:10:42,920 This really is like where trainers were just a couple 203 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,320 years ago, and it retails at 90 at full price. 204 00:10:46,639 --> 00:10:48,870 It's on sale for 76. I was gonna say it's on sale. 205 00:10:48,870 --> 00:10:50,720 Yeah, I was gonna say it's on sale right now. 206 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:52,813 Yeah, and like this honestly is nice. 207 00:10:52,813 --> 00:10:55,200 Like I'm actually really excited to run it. 208 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:59,022 This reminds me a lot of like the Hoka Clifton just from a few 209 00:10:59,022 --> 00:11:03,105 years a Like it's 40 millimeters of stack, it's an EVA foam, it's 210 00:11:03,105 --> 00:11:06,534 a rockered outsole, like rocker sole, full contact outsole. 211 00:11:06,534 --> 00:11:09,199 Like it's honestly it's a solid shoe. 212 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:14,565 Upper is nicer on this one than the Shad-X, locks down well. 213 00:11:14,565 --> 00:11:16,800 Materials actually feel pretty good. 214 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,680 So it's nothing like over-the-top fancy, right? 215 00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:23,202 Like it's just kind of a basic EVA rocker trainer, but it 216 00:11:23,202 --> 00:11:24,960 honestly feels good standing and walking. 217 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:26,624 Like I'm I'm excited to run in this. 218 00:11:26,624 --> 00:11:29,120 I think the geometry is gonna line up pretty well with me. 219 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,099 And for those that are on a budget, like this again is very 220 00:11:32,099 --> 00:11:35,455 similar to some of the stuff that was on the market not that 221 00:11:35,455 --> 00:11:38,047 long ago. Yeah, I'll just jump in because 222 00:11:38,047 --> 00:11:41,600 I've gotten a few runs in on this shoe as well. 223 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,282 I'm talking about the S-Echo Soft. 224 00:11:44,282 --> 00:11:49,199 And I think that you hit the experience on the head. 225 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,154 It's not, they call it the Soft. In comparison to the market 226 00:11:53,154 --> 00:11:56,876 right now, it's not soft. It's not it's not wicked firm. 227 00:11:56,876 --> 00:12:02,054 It has a little bit of give to it, and it is on this rocker 228 00:12:02,054 --> 00:12:04,431 platform. I I think that if you don't like 229 00:12:04,431 --> 00:12:07,225 toe spring in your daily trainer, this one has a little 230 00:12:07,225 --> 00:12:09,890 bit of toe spring. Again, toe spring is where where 231 00:12:09,890 --> 00:12:13,452 you're the on the foot platform it kind of arcs upward as you 232 00:12:13,452 --> 00:12:15,355 get towards the front of the foot. 233 00:12:15,355 --> 00:12:18,600 Here's my one of my little gripes and this you'll laugh at 234 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,960 this one is laces. The laces are just too straight 235 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,000 too stretchy and they're too long. 236 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:28,109 So it's like it's hard to like get the just get it locked in 237 00:12:28,109 --> 00:12:31,333 really easily because then the laces are just dangling all over 238 00:12:31,333 --> 00:12:34,080 the place. So that's you could change your 239 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:38,400 laces if you really want to, but otherwise it's a very simple 240 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,590 shoe, comfortable. I think that the fit is overall 241 00:12:40,590 --> 00:12:42,802 good. It's a little bit like a little 242 00:12:42,802 --> 00:12:46,800 bit narrow in the toe box, but I it it stretches, it's got room. 243 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,356 It's not gusseted for a tongue, and so that but I didn't have it 244 00:12:50,356 --> 00:12:53,687 move around on me at all, but just know that they don't have 245 00:12:53,687 --> 00:12:56,299 it gusseted, which is pretty typical for most shoes these 246 00:12:56,299 --> 00:12:58,165 days. But for them just kind of trying 247 00:12:58,165 --> 00:13:01,371 to get some shoes on the market for running, I think they did a 248 00:13:01,371 --> 00:13:05,075 nice job giving a bevel for the heel on their first shoe. 249 00:13:05,075 --> 00:13:07,280 They actually took out a little bit. 250 00:13:07,279 --> 00:13:11,305 It's not really biased one direction or the other, but if 251 00:13:11,305 --> 00:13:15,881 you are truly on a budget for like a daily trainer that could 252 00:13:15,881 --> 00:13:19,562 be a walking, standing shoe and some some jogging, why not give 253 00:13:19,562 --> 00:13:24,032 this a look? Because it's like you said, 90 254 00:13:24,032 --> 00:13:28,035 bucks retailing for 75. It's not going to do anything 255 00:13:28,035 --> 00:13:30,960 magical for you, but it's it's it's pretty solid. 256 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,224 I think that the full contact rubber is gonna give some 257 00:13:34,224 --> 00:13:36,000 durability from that standpoint as well. 258 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,729 I'm not seen anywhere at this point. 259 00:13:37,729 --> 00:13:41,421 Granted, I only have a f a few runs in it, so I can't fully 260 00:13:41,421 --> 00:13:44,430 speak to it. But with this type of foam, 261 00:13:44,430 --> 00:13:47,804 there's not much to lose. So what you get is what you're 262 00:13:47,804 --> 00:13:50,136 going to get probably for a little while because you're not 263 00:13:50,136 --> 00:13:53,037 like having this super soft compliant foam that's going to 264 00:13:53,037 --> 00:13:55,200 lose some of that quote unquote magic. 265 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,280 So yeah, it's a it's a nice little shoe. 266 00:13:57,279 --> 00:14:01,396 I wouldn't choose it over, you know, any of the the main brand 267 00:14:01,396 --> 00:14:04,770 shoes from if the cost was equal, but again, if you're 268 00:14:04,770 --> 00:14:07,679 looking from a cost standpoint, this could be a good one. 269 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:11,810 It also runs a little stable neutral because it's firmer. 270 00:14:11,810 --> 00:14:15,520 There's a little bit of narrowing through the midfoot. 271 00:14:15,519 --> 00:14:18,548 So if you need some guidance, this might not give it to you, 272 00:14:18,548 --> 00:14:22,359 but it has some sidewalls on the rear at the rear foot by the 273 00:14:22,359 --> 00:14:26,480 heel on the inside of the shoe upper again is secure enough. 274 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,293 Just the lacing makes it a little bit a little bit 275 00:14:30,293 --> 00:14:32,904 trickier. But I kind of thought the 276 00:14:32,904 --> 00:14:35,920 similar like an old old Clifton like shoe. 277 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,975 That's kind of where it was sitting for me when they were a 278 00:14:38,975 --> 00:14:41,120 little bit firmer. Right now I feel like the 279 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,520 Clifton's so airy and light. This doesn't fe this doesn't 280 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,522 feel like that. This isn't like a get in rhythm 281 00:14:46,522 --> 00:14:48,800 go faster shoe, but it's not bad. 282 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,220 Kind of I just remember K-Swiss and K-Swiss became popular in 283 00:14:52,220 --> 00:14:55,732 when I was in high school. So it's kind of funny to like 284 00:14:55,732 --> 00:14:57,384 have a K-Swiss in my house again. 285 00:14:57,384 --> 00:15:00,585 See them might come back around. Well they've stayed around in 286 00:15:00,585 --> 00:15:04,147 the tennis world. But like outside of that, like I 287 00:15:04,147 --> 00:15:06,639 really haven't seen them. So it's cool. 288 00:15:06,639 --> 00:15:08,396 I mean K-Swiss was back, you know? 289 00:15:08,396 --> 00:15:10,404 Yeah. So I'm excited to run it that. 290 00:15:10,404 --> 00:15:12,160 But yeah, that's what it feels like. 291 00:15:12,159 --> 00:15:14,500 It feels just like kind of a Clifton from a few years ago 292 00:15:14,500 --> 00:15:16,438 before they started doing like the compressed molded and 293 00:15:16,438 --> 00:15:20,026 supercritical EVAs and like and if you are someone out there who 294 00:15:20,026 --> 00:15:24,040 really liked that and was mad that they changed that shoe, 295 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:28,240 honestly, this really isn't that bad of a consolation there. 296 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,992 So yeah, for the Clifton purists out there from you know that 297 00:15:32,992 --> 00:15:35,840 want that older, kind of more traditional feel. 298 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,360 Definitely an option. So I'll keep it in the Hoka vein 299 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,919 here now that I brought up the Clifton. 300 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,505 Now we've talked about this one before, but this is the Arahi 9, 301 00:15:45,505 --> 00:15:48,220 so I've stood in it, I've walked in it. 302 00:15:48,220 --> 00:15:50,565 It's their stability kind of flagship trainer. 303 00:15:50,565 --> 00:15:52,240 It's nice. I don't know. 304 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,000 It's just kind of like it's kinda like what we've just said, 305 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,759 in a lot of ways, but the foam's a little bit nicer. 306 00:15:57,759 --> 00:16:01,428 Kind of a little bit of a softer EVA, a little bit more 307 00:16:01,428 --> 00:16:03,120 reinforced on the medial side. Upper. 308 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,344 I feel like Hoka actually has been doing a lot better job with 309 00:16:06,344 --> 00:16:08,320 their uppers in the last year, like noticeably. 310 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,688 I think a little bit more volume, a little bit more width 311 00:16:10,688 --> 00:16:13,097 in the forefoot. It's a little bit more snug 312 00:16:13,097 --> 00:16:16,730 through the midfoot as far as like fit goes on the tongue, 313 00:16:16,730 --> 00:16:19,680 lacing down, but it's nice. I actually I really like it. 314 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,040 So I need to get some miles on it before we do year-end stuff. 315 00:16:23,039 --> 00:16:25,816 I mean I don't imagine it's gonna get an award from me, but 316 00:16:25,816 --> 00:16:29,013 I mean from what I have worn in it so far, I think it looks 317 00:16:29,013 --> 00:16:30,370 pretty good. And honestly, anything that I 318 00:16:30,370 --> 00:16:32,965 run in the next week is just take it with a grain of salt 319 00:16:32,965 --> 00:16:36,728 because I'm coming off of the fall and the bad ankle sprain 320 00:16:36,728 --> 00:16:39,155 and whatever. So anything that I am running in 321 00:16:39,155 --> 00:16:41,840 I just won't even include it at all in those awards. 322 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:46,860 That's not fair to but right. I got two more to talk about 323 00:16:46,860 --> 00:16:49,562 here. I guess three more, but I'll 324 00:16:49,562 --> 00:16:53,107 make it quick. This one we talked about on the 325 00:16:53,107 --> 00:16:55,153 last visit. Or the last visit. 326 00:16:55,153 --> 00:16:58,560 Jesus, I'm not in the last pod. In the podcast. 327 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,336 This is the Rabbit Easy Chaser. So we've talked about it before, 328 00:17:03,336 --> 00:17:06,960 so I won't go super long about it, but super promising midsole. 329 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,138 I think the foam's really soft and it's got a little bounce to 330 00:17:10,138 --> 00:17:11,358 it. Outsole's not too bad. 331 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,935 It's got decent coverage across. Upper though, it tapers really 332 00:17:14,935 --> 00:17:17,992 harshly up in the forefoot. It's a little bit thicker and 333 00:17:17,992 --> 00:17:19,680 does run a little bit warm as well. 334 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,749 I think it does need a little bit of work on the upper there, 335 00:17:22,749 --> 00:17:24,720 but I think there's some promise in the shoe. 336 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,940 It's just not there yet. But it's meant to just be an 337 00:17:27,940 --> 00:17:29,280 easy trainer. Forget the pace. 338 00:17:29,279 --> 00:17:32,080 Just kind of go and get your miles in. 339 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:33,946 Yeah. And then another one here. 340 00:17:33,946 --> 00:17:37,097 So it's funny. I actually I was gonna I 341 00:17:37,097 --> 00:17:39,680 actually don't like that shoe at all. 342 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:46,112 I it's so weird because it's not like it's got this crazy drop or 343 00:17:46,112 --> 00:17:50,035 anything, but like the heel feels somewhat soft, but the 344 00:17:50,035 --> 00:17:54,463 forefoot to me feels so hard. Like it's just like super firm 345 00:17:54,463 --> 00:17:57,440 for me. And I just can't I just don't 346 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,640 enjoy having my foot in the shoe, partially because the 347 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,940 upper that they use, like you said, it's more kind of tapered, 348 00:18:03,940 --> 00:18:07,320 narrow, but it's also so rigid. It doesn't have any sort of give 349 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,953 to it. I I think that there's room to 350 00:18:09,953 --> 00:18:13,236 grow on kind of all fronts. I don't I don't mind the cushion 351 00:18:13,236 --> 00:18:16,190 in the heel, but that's like the only part that I that I'm okay 352 00:18:16,190 --> 00:18:19,417 with right Yeah, it definitely needs some work. 353 00:18:19,417 --> 00:18:24,028 Like it's it's not there yet. I think it's better than the 354 00:18:24,028 --> 00:18:27,068 Dream Chaser was, like the previous road running trainer 355 00:18:27,068 --> 00:18:30,919 that they had. But I wasn't a big fan of that 356 00:18:30,919 --> 00:18:33,519 shoe. So I don't know what that says. 357 00:18:33,519 --> 00:18:36,679 But I think they're they're taking steps in the right 358 00:18:36,679 --> 00:18:39,519 direction, but it's I it's just not there yet. 359 00:18:39,519 --> 00:18:41,958 And this one's in the standing and walking category. 360 00:18:41,958 --> 00:18:44,930 Just want to give a quick shout-out to the Xero Pacer 361 00:18:44,930 --> 00:18:48,322 Light. It's got just a little bit more 362 00:18:48,322 --> 00:18:51,440 stack on it compared to previous Xeros. 363 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,947 It's kind of a rigid, almost rubberized EVA type of 364 00:18:55,947 --> 00:18:58,570 presentation there. So really kind of like a harder 365 00:18:58,570 --> 00:19:01,600 type of foam, but it's got a little bit more on it. 366 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,163 And so even though it has flexibility like a lot of the 367 00:19:04,163 --> 00:19:06,720 Xeros, this is something that I don't feel the pebbles and 368 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,880 things like that as much when I'm walking and so I get a 369 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,789 grounded experience while still having like I have the Xero 370 00:19:13,789 --> 00:19:16,240 experience, but I have just a little bit more padding. 371 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,276 And I found that I've really liked this for standing and 372 00:19:19,276 --> 00:19:22,629 walking for long longer days or in the clinic and things like 373 00:19:22,629 --> 00:19:24,941 that. So I think that's a good shout 374 00:19:24,941 --> 00:19:26,933 out there. And then the last one we talked 375 00:19:26,933 --> 00:19:29,559 about last week, and this was the shoe that I was the most 376 00:19:29,559 --> 00:19:32,198 heartbroken about because I fell two days before getting this 377 00:19:32,198 --> 00:19:35,786 darn thing, and this was the shoe that I was super stoked to 378 00:19:35,786 --> 00:19:38,895 run in, and that's the Mount to Coast M1. 379 00:19:38,895 --> 00:19:42,000 This is like their ultra marathon trail racing shoe. 380 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,688 It's got a supercritical midsole, it's like under 10 381 00:19:45,688 --> 00:19:48,960 ounces, it's Vibram Megagrip, it's all the things. 382 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:53,176 And it actually has a decently wide base under it, and it has a 383 00:19:53,176 --> 00:19:55,509 decently forgiving upper. It's it's snug though through 384 00:19:55,509 --> 00:19:58,080 the midfoot, but most of the mountain shoes are. 385 00:19:58,079 --> 00:20:01,000 But it has a lot of volume in the forefoot. 386 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,920 So I think I'm gonna really, really like this one. 387 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:08,694 But I just didn't get a chance to run in it because I fell. 388 00:20:08,694 --> 00:20:11,760 Well, at least I fell out on the trails. 389 00:20:11,759 --> 00:20:15,882 So like just Just send it to me. So I'll be running in it 390 00:20:15,882 --> 00:20:19,028 shortly, you know, once I have some confidence to not destroy 391 00:20:19,028 --> 00:20:20,740 my ankle. Which will probably be soon. 392 00:20:20,740 --> 00:20:22,792 Give yourself time. Yeah, it'll probably in a week 393 00:20:22,792 --> 00:20:24,160 or so. Give yourself some time. 394 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:25,903 Next weekend maybe if I'm feeling good. 395 00:20:25,903 --> 00:20:28,880 So that's what I got on my feet. Yeah, what about you? 396 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,732 I know I went on for a while there. 397 00:20:32,732 --> 00:20:36,584 Talking I looked it up and it's under embargo. 398 00:20:36,584 --> 00:20:40,000 So I can't talk about it right now. 399 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,711 I think I know which one it is. At the at the next episode I'll 400 00:20:43,711 --> 00:20:48,808 be able to but it's a daily trainer that feels like a daily 401 00:20:48,808 --> 00:20:51,895 trainer. I'll say that's it I'll say for 402 00:20:51,895 --> 00:20:54,838 it now. My take was that it's like it's 403 00:20:54,838 --> 00:20:56,800 like a Ghost. It's a Ghost. 404 00:20:56,799 --> 00:20:59,373 It feels like a Ghost. It's not the Ghost. 405 00:20:59,373 --> 00:21:02,229 That's not the shoe, but it feels like a Ghost. 406 00:21:02,229 --> 00:21:04,655 All right. So that's our in-for-testing 407 00:21:04,655 --> 00:21:06,480 segment. Sorry, I don't have anything 408 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,016 else to bring to the table, but as always, this is fueled by 409 00:21:10,016 --> 00:21:13,455 Skratch Labs. If you want to check out any of 410 00:21:13,455 --> 00:21:17,796 their stuff, I am my my favorite thing from them is their 411 00:21:17,796 --> 00:21:20,120 recovery protein powder. I absolutely love it. 412 00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:23,840 Like it actually tastes good. So I have like a huge stash 413 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,320 that's just ready for me to keep using. 414 00:21:26,319 --> 00:21:29,568 But if you're looking to try out any of their stuff, you can use 415 00:21:29,568 --> 00:21:32,240 the code DOCTORSOFRUNNING for 20% off your first order with 416 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,480 them. Okay, we're going to move into 417 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,780 our main segment. So David and I are going to do 418 00:21:37,780 --> 00:21:40,700 something a little bit different, a little bit of a 419 00:21:40,700 --> 00:21:44,296 spin on this or that. And we have both created four 420 00:21:44,296 --> 00:21:47,849 different scenarios for each other that we're gonna pitch to 421 00:21:47,849 --> 00:21:51,040 one another and then we're gonna give them the option you got 422 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,680 this scenario and you can pick one of these two shoes. 423 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,800 Which shoe are you gonna pick and why would you pick it? 424 00:21:56,799 --> 00:22:00,339 And we have a little bit of latitude on our answers because 425 00:22:00,339 --> 00:22:03,264 we can answer personally for ourselves, but then instead of 426 00:22:03,264 --> 00:22:07,008 being so strict on like this or that, we're gonna also give some 427 00:22:07,008 --> 00:22:09,944 opportunity to say, like, but if you're in this space, you might 428 00:22:09,944 --> 00:22:13,057 want to choose this shoe and kind of come at it with our lens 429 00:22:13,057 --> 00:22:16,016 as like clinicians and thinking about footwear science and who 430 00:22:16,016 --> 00:22:17,840 might who might benefit from what. 431 00:22:17,839 --> 00:22:21,952 So I think this should be pretty fun, and it'll be a combination 432 00:22:21,952 --> 00:22:25,371 again of direct this or that for personal choices, but then 433 00:22:25,371 --> 00:22:29,231 giving some nuance as we go. Do you want to give the first 434 00:22:29,231 --> 00:22:31,599 scenario or can I give it to you? 435 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:36,098 I can go first, I guess. Meaning I give you a scenario or 436 00:22:36,098 --> 00:22:39,550 you want to read me one? I'll read you one. 437 00:22:39,550 --> 00:22:40,822 All right. That worked? 438 00:22:40,822 --> 00:22:41,404 Yeah. Alright. 439 00:22:41,404 --> 00:22:43,730 Yeah. This is because it's in honor of 440 00:22:43,730 --> 00:22:45,760 the New York City Marathon earlier today. 441 00:22:45,759 --> 00:22:52,356 So in honor of the New York City Marathon, we have a major race 442 00:22:52,356 --> 00:22:55,722 sponsored by New Balance. So this question is going to 443 00:22:55,722 --> 00:22:57,200 lean in the New Balance direction. 444 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,775 So now you are on the course, you are running the New York 445 00:23:00,775 --> 00:23:03,550 City Marathon today. Let's assume that you are in 446 00:23:03,550 --> 00:23:06,796 great shape. You're ready to go and run for a 447 00:23:06,796 --> 00:23:08,680 PR. You are acknowledging all of the 448 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,540 bridges and boroughs and all of the different things you gotta 449 00:23:11,540 --> 00:23:14,560 go up and down and around. Are you running and this is 450 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,799 actually gonna be a three part this or that. 451 00:23:16,799 --> 00:23:18,960 This is the first time we were ever doing this. 452 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,680 Not three part in question sequentially, but three part as 453 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,764 far as your choices go. So I'm gonna give you the choice 454 00:23:24,764 --> 00:23:28,796 of either I have three shoes. The New Balance SC Elite version 455 00:23:28,796 --> 00:23:33,474 6, the New Balance SC Rebel, and/or the New Balance 880 456 00:23:33,474 --> 00:23:36,330 version, whatever they are on. Gosh. 457 00:23:36,330 --> 00:23:41,731 So I'm in good shape, right? You are in good shape. 458 00:23:41,731 --> 00:23:44,677 Okay. You know, this one's actually 459 00:23:44,677 --> 00:23:48,747 pretty easy for me. So I've ran in all of those. 460 00:23:48,747 --> 00:23:52,959 And the the kicker for me, just to give context, let's say I was 461 00:23:52,959 --> 00:23:56,960 going for a PR. My current PR is like a three 462 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,560 twenty nine in change, like just under three thirty. 463 00:24:00,559 --> 00:24:03,944 I bet next time I try to run a marathon, if I'm in good shape, 464 00:24:03,944 --> 00:24:05,519 I'd be shooting for like sub 320. 465 00:24:05,519 --> 00:24:08,000 So I'd love to shave 10 minutes off. 466 00:24:11,519 --> 00:24:16,399 Knowing that I'm not going crazy, and based on my 467 00:24:16,399 --> 00:24:21,760 experiences, I think I'd choose the SC Rebel for the Marathon. 468 00:24:21,759 --> 00:24:25,163 It's got enough cushion. I like having cushion, but the 469 00:24:25,163 --> 00:24:29,054 big difference for me is the geometry setup and getting onto 470 00:24:29,054 --> 00:24:34,357 the rocker for the SC Rebel is way easier than getting onto the 471 00:24:34,357 --> 00:24:39,904 rocker for the SC Elite for me. SC Elite, I just still I feel 472 00:24:39,904 --> 00:24:44,025 like I'm a little clunky through transitions, and it's a more 473 00:24:44,025 --> 00:24:47,040 narrow, it's not as stable as the SC Rebel, and so I'd 474 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,715 appreciate a little bit of that stability, but I've done some 475 00:24:49,715 --> 00:24:52,734 really fast work in the SC Rebel, and it feels really 476 00:24:52,734 --> 00:24:55,200 rhythmic when I'm doing my warm-ups and cooldowns too. 477 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,279 So I feel like it's been versatile. 478 00:24:57,279 --> 00:25:01,983 So if I'm thinking I'm running at like a sub just sub-eight 479 00:25:01,983 --> 00:25:04,720 pace, 745, something in that realm, 730. 480 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,996 I think I could get into rhythm in that shoe, have enough 481 00:25:07,996 --> 00:25:10,722 cushion for the long haul. And I know it's really rigid, 482 00:25:10,722 --> 00:25:12,991 but I think that the rocker works well for me. 483 00:25:12,991 --> 00:25:16,983 I would need to go half size up. I've been using size nine for my 484 00:25:16,983 --> 00:25:19,165 workouts. I wouldn't want that for the 485 00:25:19,165 --> 00:25:22,160 marathon because it's too snug. So there's a little asterisk 486 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,178 where if I were to go half size up and then the rocker doesn't 487 00:25:26,178 --> 00:25:28,319 hit me right, then I might change my answer. 488 00:25:28,319 --> 00:25:33,440 But I think for me that the 880 is too flat for me to want to 489 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,788 run a marathon in it has the cushioning that I would probably 490 00:25:36,788 --> 00:25:40,470 want, but I think it's too flat. SC Elite, a little bit too 491 00:25:40,470 --> 00:25:44,319 aggressive, and I think SC Rebel fits it for me. 492 00:25:44,319 --> 00:25:47,343 And I think that's kind of where I would go with that second part 493 00:25:47,343 --> 00:25:51,080 of the answer is like I think that if I were going for just a 494 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,980 a long run like more chill I think the 880 would be totally 495 00:25:54,980 --> 00:25:57,478 fine. But if I'm trying to PR and put 496 00:25:57,478 --> 00:26:00,492 effort in, I'd want something that feels like it's giving me 497 00:26:00,492 --> 00:26:02,734 effort back. And I feel like that might be a 498 00:26:02,734 --> 00:26:04,000 consideration for you as a runner. 499 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,450 If it's you know, there's a difference between PRing a 500 00:26:07,450 --> 00:26:10,764 marathon, in my opinion, with effort and like running your 501 00:26:10,764 --> 00:26:12,800 first marathon, which will be a PR. 502 00:26:12,799 --> 00:26:17,089 Like in that case, like I ran my first marathon in the what 503 00:26:17,089 --> 00:26:21,642 version was it? But it was the Wave Rider maybe 504 00:26:21,642 --> 00:26:25,200 the 15 or something like that. 16. 505 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,720 That was great, but it was just to get across the finish line. 506 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,256 I think now that I'm if I'm in this position where I'm in 507 00:26:32,256 --> 00:26:35,519 shape, I'm trying to push, I'd want something to give it back. 508 00:26:35,519 --> 00:26:38,080 So I don't know. Any thoughts on that? 509 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,000 No, I think it's great. Yeah. 510 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,836 And then in your current shape right now, if you had to choose 511 00:26:44,836 --> 00:26:45,580 one. Oh. 512 00:26:45,580 --> 00:26:49,648 Well, I wouldn't be PRing. I'd I'd But you are trying. 513 00:26:49,648 --> 00:26:52,960 I'm still gonna try to PR? No, no, no. 514 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,123 Like you're just gonna try and like give it an honest effort. 515 00:26:56,123 --> 00:26:59,279 Like you kind of know the PR is not coming, but Yeah. 516 00:26:59,279 --> 00:27:02,346 I I I'd honestly I might 880. Yeah. 517 00:27:02,346 --> 00:27:06,559 If I'm just like running running the marathon, I might 880. 518 00:27:06,559 --> 00:27:10,942 I still but I really liked the rhythm of the SC Rebel at slower 519 00:27:10,942 --> 00:27:13,446 paces. So it's a toss up between those 520 00:27:13,446 --> 00:27:15,200 two. Yeah, and I wanted to choose 521 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,600 that like the three part specifically with you, because I 522 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,461 think you're in such an interesting position as far as 523 00:27:20,461 --> 00:27:23,215 your running ability where you're fast enough to get 524 00:27:23,215 --> 00:27:24,960 something out of these faster shoes. 525 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,700 Where like you put something into it, that turnover will 526 00:27:27,700 --> 00:27:30,668 respond, but at the same time, you feel more structure like 527 00:27:30,668 --> 00:27:33,200 better with having a little more structure on there too. 528 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,125 So I was curious to see your breakdown and kind of where you 529 00:27:36,125 --> 00:27:38,135 would choose it. Because like most people who are 530 00:27:38,135 --> 00:27:40,577 probably like two forty five and down or something, like they're 531 00:27:40,577 --> 00:27:44,275 just gonna choose a super shoe, like most people aren't gonna go 532 00:27:44,275 --> 00:27:47,325 and choose a super trainer or like training companion because 533 00:27:47,325 --> 00:27:49,870 it's a little more stable. Like most people are just gonna 534 00:27:49,870 --> 00:27:51,920 opt for whatever the super shoe is on the market. 535 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,528 So but you're yeah, you're kind of like right in the middle 536 00:27:56,528 --> 00:27:57,680 there. So Yeah. 537 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,021 I think the other shoe that isn't on the list that I would 538 00:28:01,021 --> 00:28:03,839 consider is the Megablast as one to like throw into that. 539 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,912 But I kept a New Balance though, just because of the race. 540 00:28:06,912 --> 00:28:08,960 Yes, because of the sponsorship. I love it. 541 00:28:09,039 --> 00:28:12,560 Well not our sponsorship. The race's sponsorship. 542 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:18,775 Okay, I've got one for you here. So you just got done with a like 543 00:28:18,775 --> 00:28:22,480 a hard workout the day before. Pick insert hard workout here. 544 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,120 You're on the day after, you're doing like a easy five to six 545 00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:30,069 mile kind of recovery run. You're just getting miles on on 546 00:28:30,069 --> 00:28:33,039 your feet. What are you gonna pick? 547 00:28:33,039 --> 00:28:43,215 Are you gonna either pick the Saucony Triumph 24 or the ASICS 548 00:28:43,215 --> 00:28:45,759 Slow Cush? Hmm. 549 00:28:45,759 --> 00:28:50,895 You know, I don't usually opt for like a really soft shoe 550 00:28:50,895 --> 00:28:51,751 after. After? 551 00:28:51,751 --> 00:28:54,745 Yeah. I tend to like something a 552 00:28:54,745 --> 00:28:59,020 little firmer. So I probably wouldn't opt for 553 00:28:59,020 --> 00:29:02,960 either, honestly. But I think if I was choosing 554 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:07,760 between the two I like that the Triumph's a little lighter I 555 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,023 think I just like the Triumph a little bit more all around where 556 00:29:11,023 --> 00:29:14,400 like even though the Slow Cush I think like if I'm trying, just 557 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,920 running as slow as I can, I think it's more comfortable. 558 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,960 I think they they kind of hit the name on it pretty well 559 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,130 there. Like it is slow and cushioned. 560 00:29:24,130 --> 00:29:27,717 It is the Slow Cush. But usually I I don't know, I 561 00:29:27,717 --> 00:29:31,789 just feel like I dragged my feet around a little bit with some of 562 00:29:31,789 --> 00:29:34,960 those supermax kind of shoes. Not that the Triumph isn't, 563 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:36,880 right? I mean that's like 44 564 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,800 millimeters now, I think, right? Right. 565 00:29:38,799 --> 00:29:43,683 But like it's it's l lighter. It's like what nine ounces or 566 00:29:43,683 --> 00:29:47,753 something like that. So yeah, I'm gonna go with the 567 00:29:47,753 --> 00:29:50,554 Triumph. So are you thinking like if it 568 00:29:50,554 --> 00:29:54,316 was gonna be more of your dealer's choice, would you go 569 00:29:54,316 --> 00:29:57,584 more in like Clifton or like just some sort of daily trainer 570 00:29:57,584 --> 00:30:00,092 that's a little bit on the firmer firmer end in comparison 571 00:30:00,092 --> 00:30:02,023 to these ones that are super mushy? 572 00:30:02,023 --> 00:30:05,993 Yeah, I would think if it was in the Hoka lineup, I like the 573 00:30:05,993 --> 00:30:08,624 Clifton Pro. I think that one has just a 574 00:30:08,624 --> 00:30:12,158 little bit more of kind of like a little snappy liveliness to 575 00:30:12,158 --> 00:30:15,547 it, while still being smooth at really easy paces. 576 00:30:15,547 --> 00:30:20,143 I like the Clifton Pro. It doesn't have to be Hoka 577 00:30:20,143 --> 00:30:23,541 either. Mount to Coast C1 I've been 578 00:30:23,541 --> 00:30:29,008 loving for things like that, On Cloud Monster Hyper 3, like 579 00:30:29,008 --> 00:30:33,250 something where it's it's just a little bit lighter, but it still 580 00:30:33,250 --> 00:30:35,519 feels really, really good at easy paces. 581 00:30:35,519 --> 00:30:38,580 Like where I can just kind of like set it, forget it, like 582 00:30:38,580 --> 00:30:41,698 just go run easy. The Slow Cush is just a little 583 00:30:41,698 --> 00:30:45,119 too much shoe for me, I think. I can appreciate it. 584 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,629 I think they did a really good job with it. 585 00:30:47,629 --> 00:30:50,879 I just don't think it's the my personal thing that I go to. 586 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:56,545 I think I just like a little bit lighter profile on the shoe 587 00:30:56,545 --> 00:30:57,415 itself. Yep. 588 00:30:57,415 --> 00:31:01,319 Yeah, makes sense. Alright, I guess that means I'm 589 00:31:01,319 --> 00:31:03,839 up next, right? Yeah, I'm ready. 590 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:08,308 Alright, so you can choose your favorite from either respective 591 00:31:08,308 --> 00:31:11,016 company here. So this will be kind of a little 592 00:31:11,016 --> 00:31:13,053 bit of a loose kind of this or that. 593 00:31:13,053 --> 00:31:15,176 Yeah. You have a standing and walking 594 00:31:15,176 --> 00:31:17,840 shoe that you can go to for the rest of your life. 595 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:23,200 One gets to exist, the other one goes away forever. 596 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,488 You are choosing between either Xero and/or Lems. 597 00:31:27,488 --> 00:31:29,233 Oh crud. It's funny. 598 00:31:29,233 --> 00:31:32,603 When you started talking about the question, I had companies 599 00:31:32,603 --> 00:31:36,489 popping into my head and three companies popped into my head. 600 00:31:36,489 --> 00:31:38,399 Because you're like standing walking. 601 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:44,144 So I had one of them that you didn't I had Topo pop into my 602 00:31:44,144 --> 00:31:48,719 head just because I like some of their trail stuff actually, like 603 00:31:48,719 --> 00:31:52,319 the Traverse for daily use. I wear it like all the time. 604 00:31:52,319 --> 00:31:55,280 Lems also popped my head and Xero popped into my head. 605 00:31:55,279 --> 00:31:59,524 So so you're saying the whole company Yeah you you are 606 00:31:59,524 --> 00:32:02,604 eradicating a company on air. Oh my gosh. 607 00:32:02,604 --> 00:32:04,442 That's so mean. Gosh. 608 00:32:04,442 --> 00:32:09,218 No. This is actually a hard one 609 00:32:09,218 --> 00:32:15,356 because there's there there are things that are categorically 610 00:32:15,356 --> 00:32:20,935 different about them. Like you you know to have Lems 611 00:32:20,935 --> 00:32:25,187 you get some cushion. You also get versatility in some 612 00:32:25,187 --> 00:32:29,120 of their kind of lifestyle stuff that has cushion in it. 613 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,359 But they don't have a lot of like the super minimalist. 614 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:38,368 And then Xero obviously does not have any cushion shoes in there. 615 00:32:38,368 --> 00:32:43,039 I think I would be keeping Xero. Okay. 616 00:32:43,039 --> 00:32:46,848 I think a a lot of it's because I have way more experience with 617 00:32:46,848 --> 00:32:48,992 Xero. I have two different pairs of 618 00:32:48,992 --> 00:32:52,728 dress shoes that I wear for like work events and things like 619 00:32:52,728 --> 00:32:55,356 that. I've done a ton of walking, ton 620 00:32:55,356 --> 00:32:58,000 of hiking in like the summit, Mesa Summit. 621 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,732 Like there's a lot of shoes that I've done like decent hikes in. 622 00:33:01,732 --> 00:33:04,866 So I trust them. I've got some winter stuff that 623 00:33:04,866 --> 00:33:07,509 I've worn. So that but that's all like 624 00:33:07,509 --> 00:33:10,000 experiential. I haven't done as much in the in 625 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,843 Lems. What I have done in Lems I've 626 00:33:11,843 --> 00:33:14,584 loved like these two shoes that we just got that are their 627 00:33:14,584 --> 00:33:16,477 running shoes. I don't want to run in them, but 628 00:33:16,477 --> 00:33:19,162 I do like to wear them to work and I love the cork, you know, 629 00:33:19,162 --> 00:33:20,884 top that they put on their insole. 630 00:33:20,884 --> 00:33:24,159 Like they're and the they both have great toe boxes, so there's 631 00:33:24,159 --> 00:33:27,760 a lot of winning there. I'd say I'd say even the overall 632 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,640 comfort of the upper on Lems beats out Xero. 633 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,880 But I just have this trust factor. 634 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,400 This is all personal and bias just from experience, but like 635 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:40,643 the trust factor for Xero, and I I really like being in a 636 00:33:40,643 --> 00:33:44,735 barefoot shoe when I can. I think that it's just a nice 637 00:33:44,735 --> 00:33:47,120 stimulus that is different for my body. 638 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,328 So that's what I would pick. I want to throw that one back at 639 00:33:50,328 --> 00:33:52,160 you, but that's not how the game works. 640 00:33:55,279 --> 00:33:57,457 But Lems is super impressive. Yeah. 641 00:33:57,457 --> 00:33:58,909 This first bout. Yeah. 642 00:33:58,909 --> 00:34:02,688 That's what made it hard. Because I've loved I've been a 643 00:34:02,688 --> 00:34:05,640 Xero lover for like over yeah, a long time. 644 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,427 It's been a long time. Standing and walking, they're 645 00:34:08,427 --> 00:34:10,433 both phenomenal. And they're both like different, 646 00:34:10,433 --> 00:34:12,813 right? Like you said, Xero is more like 647 00:34:12,813 --> 00:34:15,504 minimalistic, more flexible, like where Lems you have a 648 00:34:15,504 --> 00:34:18,791 little bit more cushion, a little bit stiffer platform, and 649 00:34:18,791 --> 00:34:21,518 just kind of great for just like standing. 650 00:34:21,518 --> 00:34:23,219 You know, and walking it's really good too. 651 00:34:23,219 --> 00:34:26,188 But I mean it's just you have a little bit more rigidity to the 652 00:34:26,188 --> 00:34:28,320 sole. Whereas like Xero is a little 653 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:29,920 bit more like flexible, naturalistic. 654 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,248 But they both have wide toe boxes, they both have, I think, 655 00:34:33,248 --> 00:34:36,647 really good uppers. Like I can expect a solid upper 656 00:34:36,647 --> 00:34:38,842 from both of those companies. 100%. 657 00:34:38,842 --> 00:34:41,039 Both comfortable for all day wear. 658 00:34:41,039 --> 00:34:44,570 So that's why I thought it'd be an interesting one to throw at 659 00:34:44,570 --> 00:34:46,196 the end. That's a good one. 660 00:34:46,196 --> 00:34:47,280 Yeah. I like it. 661 00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:51,696 All right Alright. Here's the here's the next one 662 00:34:51,696 --> 00:34:55,420 for you. So this is you're gonna be going 663 00:34:55,420 --> 00:34:59,151 to race a half marathon. Assume you're not in like PR 664 00:34:59,151 --> 00:35:02,946 shape, but you're in like, oh, I could go give this a good effort 665 00:35:02,946 --> 00:35:06,640 shape for you. And there is some sort of 666 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:11,440 constraint, whether that's like financial, you can't go afford a 667 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,547 super shoe or there's some race regulation that doesn't allow a 668 00:35:15,547 --> 00:35:18,203 super shoe. So you have to do a 669 00:35:18,203 --> 00:35:20,880 non-supershoe half marathon. You're putting in effort though. 670 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:25,815 You're not just jogging it. You have to either pick between 671 00:35:25,815 --> 00:35:31,777 the Saucony Endorphin Speed 6 or the Puma Deviate Pure Nitro. 672 00:35:31,777 --> 00:35:34,268 Okay. That one's actually not too hard 673 00:35:34,268 --> 00:35:35,564 for me. Oh, okay. 674 00:35:35,564 --> 00:35:38,480 Yeah, I think I'd go Saucony Endorphin Speed 6. 675 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,307 I think I just a little bit of a snappier platform. 676 00:35:41,307 --> 00:35:43,359 It feels a little bit more super adjacent. 677 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,284 Whereas like the Deviate Pure Nitro is a little bit more I 678 00:35:47,284 --> 00:35:51,187 don't know how to say, like it's kind of like that simple 679 00:35:51,187 --> 00:35:53,950 lightweight neutral trainer, and although it is really versatile 680 00:35:53,950 --> 00:35:59,824 and can do a lot, it's not something that I really see 681 00:35:59,824 --> 00:36:03,244 myself racing in. Yeah. 682 00:36:03,244 --> 00:36:10,043 Alright, what else you got? So what it will what I actually 683 00:36:10,043 --> 00:36:13,470 erased my original one. But I'm gonna put it back in 684 00:36:13,470 --> 00:36:17,230 there just to see if it changes. So keep the Puma Deviate Pure 685 00:36:17,230 --> 00:36:20,748 Nitro. But then put in the New Balance 686 00:36:20,748 --> 00:36:23,975 Rebel version 5. Oh, like the regular Rebel. 687 00:36:23,975 --> 00:36:27,199 Not the SC Rebel. Not the SC Rebel. 688 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:28,760 Okay. Yeah, the regular Rebel. 689 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:33,259 Yeah, that's an interesting one. Okay, Rebel 5 versus Deviate 690 00:36:33,259 --> 00:36:41,319 Pure Nitro, I think I'm gonna go with, I'm gonna go with the 691 00:36:41,319 --> 00:36:46,159 Deviate Pure Nitro on that one. I think FuelCell has never 692 00:36:46,159 --> 00:36:50,399 really been my best friend. I've always kind of found it a 693 00:36:50,399 --> 00:36:54,879 little kind of soft and mushy, and I've kind of had a hard time 694 00:36:54,879 --> 00:36:58,079 like loading it in a way that's made sense for me. 695 00:36:58,079 --> 00:37:01,368 Now the Rebel has gotten better and better throughout the years, 696 00:37:01,368 --> 00:37:05,316 and the Rebel 5 probably being the best one that's agreed with 697 00:37:05,316 --> 00:37:08,622 me the most. But I think the nitro foam in 698 00:37:08,622 --> 00:37:12,284 the Deviate Pure Nitro is just a midsole that agrees just with 699 00:37:12,284 --> 00:37:16,000 the way I land, and I just kind of prefer that type of 700 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,239 cushioning where it's got just a little firmer. 701 00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:21,425 Yeah, it's just got a little bit more firmness to it while still 702 00:37:21,425 --> 00:37:23,694 having some bounce. And the upper is really 703 00:37:23,694 --> 00:37:26,284 comfortable. Upper is good on both, but I I 704 00:37:26,284 --> 00:37:29,419 feel like the simplicity of the Deviate Pure Nitro, it's just 705 00:37:29,419 --> 00:37:33,520 kind of a nice shoe to just put on your foot and go go run. 706 00:37:33,519 --> 00:37:37,614 So and it's what seven ounces for s I guess they're both like 707 00:37:37,614 --> 00:37:40,900 seven, eight ounces. They're both pretty so I guess 708 00:37:40,900 --> 00:37:44,020 it's yeah. That's that's a that's a tough 709 00:37:44,020 --> 00:37:47,140 one. I I I would go Deviate Pure 710 00:37:47,140 --> 00:37:51,304 Nitro though. I I knew I knew you would pick 711 00:37:51,304 --> 00:37:55,460 Pure over the Rebel version 5. Just I I knew you'd want 712 00:37:55,460 --> 00:37:58,159 something a little firmer that could be just slightly snappier. 713 00:37:58,159 --> 00:37:59,839 Like I knew you'd want that snappy. 714 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:04,908 And so I was like, maybe I'll pick the Speed 6, which has been 715 00:38:04,908 --> 00:38:09,097 good in the past, but hasn't changed much in the last number 716 00:38:09,097 --> 00:38:11,874 of iterations. So maybe it feels a little too 717 00:38:11,874 --> 00:38:16,094 hard, too firm, not as but I get why you would have picked the 718 00:38:16,094 --> 00:38:19,451 Speed 6 over the Pure. Yeah, it's it still feels super 719 00:38:19,451 --> 00:38:21,440 adjacent. Like even if it hasn't changed 720 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,239 much from previous years, I've ripped twenty mile long runs. 721 00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:27,919 I I remember like in the Endorphin Speed 2, I did a 20 722 00:38:27,919 --> 00:38:32,159 mile or at sub six pace in it. Like I I I can trust it. 723 00:38:32,159 --> 00:38:36,779 Like I know I can if I really had to race a long distance race 724 00:38:36,779 --> 00:38:39,545 in an Endorphin Speed, I could totally do it. 725 00:38:39,545 --> 00:38:42,063 So yeah. And maybe some of that too is 726 00:38:42,063 --> 00:38:44,543 also track record and Deviate Pure Nitro is an issue. 727 00:38:44,543 --> 00:38:46,439 Who knows? Maybe maybe that answer would 728 00:38:46,439 --> 00:38:49,519 change in four years having experience and both You trust it 729 00:38:49,519 --> 00:38:50,079 more. Yeah. 730 00:38:50,079 --> 00:38:54,159 So I don't know how much of that is experiential, but I get that. 731 00:38:54,159 --> 00:38:58,780 Yeah, but I I think Endorphin Speed in that situation, Deviate 732 00:38:58,780 --> 00:39:02,140 Pure Nitro over the Rebel in that situation. 733 00:39:02,140 --> 00:39:05,901 Yeah. Alright, so now I'm up, huh? 734 00:39:05,901 --> 00:39:06,855 Yep. Okay. 735 00:39:06,855 --> 00:39:13,519 Let's go with you so you now have a marathon in front of you. 736 00:39:13,519 --> 00:39:17,279 It's either gonna be a another marathon. 737 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,036 Marathon and/or ultra and/or long-distance race that you're 738 00:39:21,036 --> 00:39:25,616 gonna be out there for a while. Doesn't really matter the 739 00:39:25,616 --> 00:39:28,532 distance on this one as much, I don't think. 740 00:39:28,532 --> 00:39:30,799 Let's say somewhere between three plus hours. 741 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,904 Yeah, somewhere between twenty miles and forty miles. 742 00:39:33,904 --> 00:39:35,840 Let's just say that. Okay. 743 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,461 You're going marathon to a nice easy rate. 744 00:39:38,461 --> 00:39:39,115 Yeah. Yeah. 745 00:39:39,115 --> 00:39:42,712 Yeah, I got you. Now this is gonna be a variable 746 00:39:42,712 --> 00:39:44,899 course. This is gonna be something that 747 00:39:44,899 --> 00:39:47,680 goes over a let's just call it 30% each. 748 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,636 You're gonna go over road, you're gonna go over runnable 749 00:39:51,636 --> 00:39:56,320 tra like trail, where it's like kind of fire roady, a little bit 750 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,400 of divot, sure yep. But like it it's a green circle 751 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,360 trail. But it's a trail, you know? 752 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,997 And then like another third where it's a genuine gravel 753 00:40:04,997 --> 00:40:06,765 road. Where so like differentiating 754 00:40:06,765 --> 00:40:10,626 there, like one is like a foothill in the foothills, it's 755 00:40:10,626 --> 00:40:14,928 a trail, like it's a trail, but it's very, very running. 756 00:40:14,928 --> 00:40:19,280 And then you have like gravel road and then actual road. 757 00:40:19,599 --> 00:40:22,659 And you've got to run across all three of these terrains in the 758 00:40:22,659 --> 00:40:23,599 same race. Long run. 759 00:40:23,599 --> 00:40:26,769 You know it's probably not gonna be a PR, right? 760 00:40:26,769 --> 00:40:29,615 But you're gonna put an honest effort in this. 761 00:40:29,615 --> 00:40:32,742 And it's long, right? So your choices are I know what 762 00:40:32,742 --> 00:40:35,399 shoe I want. Please I hope it's in your list. 763 00:40:35,399 --> 00:40:37,519 I know what shoe I want. We'll see. 764 00:40:37,519 --> 00:40:39,983 But don't see if it's made my list. 765 00:40:39,983 --> 00:40:43,679 So the choice that you have, this is a two two choice. 766 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,992 I'm not giving you three on this one. 767 00:40:47,992 --> 00:40:54,209 You have the North Face Altamesa 500 or the On Cloud Monster 768 00:40:54,209 --> 00:40:56,799 Hyper 3. I got 'em. 769 00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,799 Let's go. Okay, cuz here's the deal. 770 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,746 You you did list the shoe that I wanted, but then you brought 771 00:41:04,746 --> 00:41:08,079 another shoe in that I'm like, actually, do I want that? 772 00:41:08,079 --> 00:41:11,771 So the shoe that I thought I wanted was the On Cloud Monster 773 00:41:11,771 --> 00:41:14,319 Hyper 3. Like, I I just trust that shoe. 774 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:18,352 The one that it would be worst on would be the trail like the 775 00:41:18,352 --> 00:41:23,676 trail segment foothill one just because though it is wider it's 776 00:41:23,676 --> 00:41:29,040 not wide like it's not trying to stop my ankle from rolling. 777 00:41:29,039 --> 00:41:32,054 And even on foothills, I have a loose ankle. 778 00:41:32,054 --> 00:41:34,396 My right one is chronically being sprained. 779 00:41:34,396 --> 00:41:38,256 It's just part of my existence. I have chronic ankle 780 00:41:38,256 --> 00:41:41,298 instability. So that's that but I I would 781 00:41:41,298 --> 00:41:44,719 trust it enough probably on like foothill trails to do it. 782 00:41:44,720 --> 00:41:47,920 So that was the one that was in my head. 783 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:52,395 But I love the Altamesa 500. I took that shoe, I've taken out 784 00:41:52,395 --> 00:41:55,679 road r road runs and I ran in Colorado. 785 00:41:55,679 --> 00:41:59,655 That's like the sh one shoe that I brought out to Colorado to do 786 00:41:59,655 --> 00:42:01,920 some foothill running in. And it was awesome. 787 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,142 I went down into this valley. It was phenomenal. 788 00:42:05,142 --> 00:42:08,000 I felt like my ankle was super safe. 789 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:12,788 So honestly, I was gonna pick I was gonna pick the I would have 790 00:42:12,788 --> 00:42:16,771 said the On Cloud Monster Hyper 3, but I'm going with the 791 00:42:16,771 --> 00:42:19,275 Altamesa 500. I love the little just the 792 00:42:19,275 --> 00:42:22,400 little bit of bounce that you get from that shoe. 793 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:27,142 There's rubber lugs that would feel great on the gravel part 794 00:42:27,142 --> 00:42:31,012 and obviously on that like foothill trail part, but they're 795 00:42:31,012 --> 00:42:34,704 not so big and the foam offsets it because it's just got that 796 00:42:34,704 --> 00:42:37,608 give enough where like the road is gonna feel fine. 797 00:42:37,608 --> 00:42:41,892 If I could do I could do 13 to 15 miles on road in that shoe 798 00:42:41,892 --> 00:42:44,503 easy. I felt the same way about the 799 00:42:44,503 --> 00:42:48,224 Tecton X3 from Hoka. Like I ran a long run in that 800 00:42:48,224 --> 00:42:52,388 shoe on the on the road in San Francisco when I was out there 801 00:42:52,388 --> 00:42:55,279 for a conference. Like it feels good on the road. 802 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,484 So I'm going with the Altamesa 500, which isn't which is funny, 803 00:42:58,484 --> 00:43:00,879 it wasn't the one that was on my mind. 804 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,360 It's like how I answer multiple choice questions when I had to 805 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,124 take tests in school. I would like answer it before I 806 00:43:07,124 --> 00:43:09,872 read the options and then I would hope that my answer was 807 00:43:09,872 --> 00:43:12,848 there, but then you had a better, a better option for me. 808 00:43:12,848 --> 00:43:14,880 So I think that's what I would pick. 809 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:19,588 And it's the kicker is just there's a slightly higher chance 810 00:43:19,588 --> 00:43:24,720 I'd roll my ankle in the On shoe on the trails part. 811 00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:27,507 So what'd you think I was gonna pick? 812 00:43:27,507 --> 00:43:30,639 I I had a feeling you'd go North Face. 813 00:43:30,639 --> 00:43:34,330 I just kind of wanted to put you in a situation where you didn't 814 00:43:34,330 --> 00:43:36,960 pick Cloud Monster Hyper 3. Oh, and you did it. 815 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:38,630 I was curious. I was like, because I know you 816 00:43:38,630 --> 00:43:40,467 like that shoe. And it is kind of like I love 817 00:43:40,467 --> 00:43:42,534 that shoe. It's like that stable, neutral, 818 00:43:42,534 --> 00:43:46,122 just like and it is stable enough to where like I mean, 819 00:43:46,122 --> 00:43:47,840 we're talking runnable trail, right? 820 00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,452 We're not talking like I mean the type of trail you don't 821 00:43:51,452 --> 00:43:53,859 necessarily need a trail running shoe for, right? 822 00:43:53,859 --> 00:43:54,469 Right. Exactly. 823 00:43:54,469 --> 00:43:58,488 Like but the Alta Mesa is kind of like that all terrain beast 824 00:43:58,488 --> 00:44:02,560 that you could just easily get into rhythm with and and just go 825 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,546 to work. So dang I I was like I I felt 826 00:44:05,546 --> 00:44:08,580 like I felt kinda proud of that one actually as I was writing 827 00:44:08,580 --> 00:44:11,200 that one down. I was like I think I'm gonna get 828 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,300 him on this. That's that's really good Well, 829 00:44:14,300 --> 00:44:19,060 we're sticking in the long distance trail ultra world for 830 00:44:19,060 --> 00:44:21,448 your next one too. Funny enough. 831 00:44:21,448 --> 00:44:23,400 Okay. So the third the third one that 832 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,559 I have for you is you are gonna go run your first ultra. 833 00:44:26,559 --> 00:44:29,688 You're gonna be doing you're gonna be doing a 50K. 834 00:44:29,688 --> 00:44:32,967 Okay. And so you're hoping to yes, 835 00:44:32,967 --> 00:44:36,704 just kind of enjoy it, but it's 50K. 836 00:44:36,704 --> 00:44:40,503 It's not a 50 mile. You want to put a little bit of 837 00:44:40,503 --> 00:44:42,880 speed, like just a little bit of speed, not a lot of speed. 838 00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:44,725 Like you're not you're not trying to go fast. 839 00:44:44,725 --> 00:44:48,232 You just want to enjoy the day. But you don't want to do like 840 00:44:48,232 --> 00:44:50,600 10-minute miles. You're you're wanting to be a 841 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,709 little bit more than that. Setting, think about your trails 842 00:44:53,709 --> 00:44:56,635 out by you. I'm not gonna send you anywhere 843 00:44:56,635 --> 00:44:58,689 else. It's one of the ultras that you 844 00:44:58,689 --> 00:45:01,551 have on your bucket list. What or like what what is the 845 00:45:01,551 --> 00:45:04,575 one that you're thinking about doing the event that I do it and 846 00:45:04,575 --> 00:45:07,478 if fans have any comments or anything that you guys wanna 847 00:45:07,478 --> 00:45:11,144 whether it be tips and/or do it, don't do it, you can always put 848 00:45:11,144 --> 00:45:13,679 it in the you can you can send us messages about it. 849 00:45:13,679 --> 00:45:16,217 But it's the Santa Barbara Nine Trails, I think is what you're 850 00:45:16,217 --> 00:45:19,867 thinking of. Because there's also a new one 851 00:45:19,867 --> 00:45:23,377 that they started doing hosted by UTMB series actually, called 852 00:45:23,377 --> 00:45:26,683 Pacific Trails. It's in like a week or two. 853 00:45:26,683 --> 00:45:30,029 Over here in our backcountry. But they're very, very 854 00:45:30,029 --> 00:45:33,574 different. So Nine Trails is like that 855 00:45:33,574 --> 00:45:37,284 thing's a bear. I mean most people say it runs 856 00:45:37,284 --> 00:45:40,992 closer to like a hard fifty miler than it does it's like 857 00:45:40,992 --> 00:45:43,476 thirty five miles. But there's over eleven thousand 858 00:45:43,476 --> 00:45:47,208 feet of vert across the race. Like it is like boom, boom, 859 00:45:47,208 --> 00:45:49,420 boom. And there's like sections that 860 00:45:49,420 --> 00:45:52,080 are definitely like with technicality in there. 861 00:45:52,079 --> 00:45:56,532 So that versus like the Pacific Trails in the backcountry, even 862 00:45:56,532 --> 00:46:00,792 though like this is like wine country backcountry mind you so 863 00:46:00,792 --> 00:46:04,171 it's not like as bad although there are some really 864 00:46:04,171 --> 00:46:06,549 mountainous areas as you go towards like Figueroa Mountain 865 00:46:06,549 --> 00:46:09,429 and some of the other stuff out there you can find it but like 866 00:46:09,429 --> 00:46:12,381 that race specifically is very runnable to my knowledge. 867 00:46:12,381 --> 00:46:15,279 It's more like private ranch kind of stuff. 868 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:20,532 And the vertical gain and loss is not nearly like close to the 869 00:46:20,532 --> 00:46:25,280 other one, even though that's a 50K similar ish distances, it's 870 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:29,600 like that one is like maybe a few thousand versus like this 871 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:33,692 one is over eleven. So but yeah, okay, so we'll say 872 00:46:33,692 --> 00:46:36,724 Nine Trails. That's the one that I was 873 00:46:36,724 --> 00:46:38,239 thinking of doing. Perfect. 874 00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:44,584 So you do have three options. Two of them are from the North 875 00:46:44,584 --> 00:46:45,558 Face. Okay. 876 00:46:45,558 --> 00:46:50,454 So I had the Altamesa 500. I can help you get a third 877 00:46:50,454 --> 00:46:53,562 option if you want to break one of those North Faces off, 878 00:46:53,562 --> 00:46:54,080 probably. Okay. 879 00:46:54,079 --> 00:46:58,735 The Off Trail Ultra from the North Face. 880 00:46:58,735 --> 00:47:00,480 Cascadia Elite. Yeah. 881 00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:04,220 So I think like the Altamesa in this situation is probably 882 00:47:04,220 --> 00:47:07,956 something I'm not gonna wear. I think that's just like there's 883 00:47:07,956 --> 00:47:10,559 enough rocks and like technicality on these trails. 884 00:47:10,559 --> 00:47:14,340 Like I look at that more as like an all terrain type of trail 885 00:47:14,340 --> 00:47:18,890 running shoe. I mean it could like it's just I 886 00:47:18,890 --> 00:47:21,656 I'm not as experienced. It's softer. 887 00:47:21,656 --> 00:47:25,114 It's softer two. So like let's say maybe we'll 888 00:47:25,114 --> 00:47:27,874 toss in like the Salomon S/Lab Ultra Glide. 889 00:47:27,874 --> 00:47:29,254 Yes. Instead of that. 890 00:47:29,254 --> 00:47:31,303 Yeah. I figure obviously this is a 891 00:47:31,303 --> 00:47:33,575 debate that I've had in my head, clearly. 892 00:47:33,575 --> 00:47:35,273 I haven't thought about this, right? 893 00:47:35,273 --> 00:47:37,345 I know. And then like you also have the 894 00:47:37,345 --> 00:47:39,701 Mount to Coast M1. That was one of the reasons why 895 00:47:39,701 --> 00:47:42,682 I was so excited for that shoe. So not on the list obviously 896 00:47:42,682 --> 00:47:45,259 'cause I haven't run in it. I think there's actually a 897 00:47:45,259 --> 00:47:48,119 halfway decent shot if I run this race I might end up running 898 00:47:48,119 --> 00:47:49,728 in it. I think 'cause from what I have 899 00:47:49,728 --> 00:47:52,227 worn in it I really like it so far and I think I'm gonna like 900 00:47:52,227 --> 00:47:55,415 it running. But that doesn't mean I will. 901 00:47:55,415 --> 00:47:59,699 Hey Or the Cloud Ultra Pro from On even. 902 00:47:59,699 --> 00:48:01,599 Yeah. From previous years. 903 00:48:01,679 --> 00:48:03,614 I just kept it off because it was last year. 904 00:48:03,614 --> 00:48:04,000 Yeah. Yeah. 905 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:08,788 So I knew I know we both loved that shoe and but Yeah, so 906 00:48:08,788 --> 00:48:12,640 looking at S/Lab Ultra Glide from Salomon versus the North 907 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:17,440 Face Off Trail Ultra versus the Brooks Cascadia Elite 2. 908 00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:21,280 I mean Cascadia Elite. There is no two. 909 00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,572 Scratch that. Nor do I know anything about 910 00:48:23,572 --> 00:48:24,460 that. I really don't. 911 00:48:24,460 --> 00:48:27,119 There's no I did not break some kind of NDA or anything. 912 00:48:29,679 --> 00:48:31,679 Yeah, that's a really, really hard one. 913 00:48:31,679 --> 00:48:34,939 So that's a course though, like you had said that like keeping 914 00:48:34,939 --> 00:48:37,920 it under ten minute or under ten minute pace or things. 915 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,880 That's gonna be hard for me to probably run under ten minute 916 00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:42,080 pace. Sure on that course. 917 00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,663 That's fine. So this is not a fast course. 918 00:48:45,663 --> 00:48:50,835 But yeah, it's a hard one. You know, I really like all 919 00:48:50,835 --> 00:48:54,666 three of those options. I was actually meaning to run in 920 00:48:54,666 --> 00:48:58,278 the S/Lab again before end of year awards and stuff like that 921 00:48:58,278 --> 00:49:02,923 and and really compare them. I really like the off trail 922 00:49:02,923 --> 00:49:06,813 ultra from North Face. I think that is a shoe that 923 00:49:06,813 --> 00:49:09,803 really agrees with my mechanics. It feels nimble but still 924 00:49:09,803 --> 00:49:15,602 technically ready. It's It's like 35, I think. 925 00:49:15,602 --> 00:49:20,804 Yeah. Those lugs are big though. 926 00:49:20,804 --> 00:49:25,134 It's very protective. They are. 927 00:49:25,134 --> 00:49:29,234 Yeah. And has kind of like a gator 928 00:49:29,234 --> 00:49:32,006 type of booty construction to it. 929 00:49:32,006 --> 00:49:36,159 Very nimble though. It's like nine ounces, you know. 930 00:49:36,159 --> 00:49:38,807 It's a really fun shoe to run in. 931 00:49:38,807 --> 00:49:42,439 I think right now I would take that over the S/Lab. 932 00:49:42,439 --> 00:49:45,626 Salomon S/Lab Ultra Glide. The Brooks Cascadia is where it 933 00:49:45,626 --> 00:49:48,064 gets interesting, right? You have the DNA Gold, you have 934 00:49:48,064 --> 00:49:50,637 the Vibram Megagrip, you've got or is it light base, either way, 935 00:49:50,637 --> 00:49:53,743 it doesn't matter. You've got a sticky outsole, 936 00:49:53,743 --> 00:49:57,679 lively foam, nice plated option, pretty good upper. 937 00:49:57,679 --> 00:50:04,007 It's also the shoe I fell in. So has nothing to do with the 938 00:50:04,007 --> 00:50:06,719 shoe though. That was entirely me. 939 00:50:06,720 --> 00:50:11,712 I think I'm gonna go with the off-trail ultra for right now 940 00:50:11,712 --> 00:50:17,195 from North Face, and I think the reason why is I think I feel a 941 00:50:17,195 --> 00:50:21,811 little bit more secure in it. I think I can run slower in it a 942 00:50:21,811 --> 00:50:24,795 little bit more comfortably. It kinda feels weird saying that 943 00:50:24,795 --> 00:50:27,715 for a race. But I'm not gonna be spending a 944 00:50:27,715 --> 00:50:29,759 lot of this race going super fast. 945 00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:33,199 And I'm not like technically good at downhills. 946 00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:35,888 I'm not someone that's gonna go just like flying down the 947 00:50:35,888 --> 00:50:37,840 mountain like some of these trail people do. 948 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,360 It's just not my background. And who knows, maybe fast 949 00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:43,376 forward a couple years if I am doing more trail races, maybe I 950 00:50:43,376 --> 00:50:45,374 get there. But for right now, like where 951 00:50:45,374 --> 00:50:48,434 the Cascadia Elite, if I was good at that, I could totally 952 00:50:48,434 --> 00:50:52,079 see myself taking that because that shoe rips on downhills. 953 00:50:52,079 --> 00:50:55,534 Like it's insanely it's it's crazy how responsive that is 954 00:50:55,534 --> 00:50:59,489 once you hit a steep downhill and you actually let your legs 955 00:50:59,489 --> 00:51:02,319 go a little bit. Like it's almost scary to stop. 956 00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:06,128 Like you like let it go and it's like holy crap this thing can 957 00:51:06,128 --> 00:51:08,767 move. So it's actually it's a really, 958 00:51:08,767 --> 00:51:11,599 really responsive shoe for a trail racing shoe. 959 00:51:11,599 --> 00:51:14,480 And I think Brooks did an excellent job with that shoe. 960 00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:18,268 And I feel like bad not giving it more coverage earlier in the 961 00:51:18,268 --> 00:51:20,092 year. And I think part of that was 962 00:51:20,092 --> 00:51:22,501 because I was dealing with a foot injury when that got 963 00:51:22,501 --> 00:51:24,454 seated. And I don't think I interacted 964 00:51:24,454 --> 00:51:28,208 with the shoe in a way that was meaningful enough for it to 965 00:51:28,208 --> 00:51:30,830 stand out to me. So I feel a little bit bad 966 00:51:30,830 --> 00:51:32,510 there. I feel like they should have got 967 00:51:32,510 --> 00:51:34,400 more love than they did earlier in the year. 968 00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:37,403 So if anyone from Brooks is listening to this, they're I 969 00:51:37,403 --> 00:51:40,400 mean, I'm saying it now, it's an excellent trail racing shoe. 970 00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,828 But yeah I think I'm gonna go with the off-trail ultra for me 971 00:51:43,828 --> 00:51:47,656 specifically in this situation. I think I just feel a little bit 972 00:51:47,656 --> 00:51:50,079 better from a variety of footings terrain. 973 00:51:50,079 --> 00:51:53,291 'cause there's runnable sections on that race, but there's a lot 974 00:51:53,291 --> 00:51:55,951 of really steep grades and there is definitely technical 975 00:51:55,951 --> 00:51:58,383 sections. I need to trust what's on my 976 00:51:58,383 --> 00:51:59,599 feet. I have to. 977 00:51:59,599 --> 00:52:02,745 And so I'm gonna go with the off-trail ultra in that 978 00:52:02,745 --> 00:52:05,029 situation. It just feels a little bit more 979 00:52:05,029 --> 00:52:06,763 technical ready. Prioritizing confidence. 980 00:52:06,763 --> 00:52:13,738 Yeah, and plus it's like this is not an easy thirty-five mile 981 00:52:13,738 --> 00:52:16,570 race. This is this is this is 982 00:52:16,570 --> 00:52:19,944 definitely a hard one. So I can't really sacrifice 983 00:52:19,944 --> 00:52:22,756 speed for security here. Especially when it's not 984 00:52:22,756 --> 00:52:27,168 something I'm used to doing. So I feel like I gotta just take 985 00:52:27,168 --> 00:52:30,624 the like grown-up decision and just put my pride away. 986 00:52:30,624 --> 00:52:33,349 Be like, I trust this shoe more. Yeah. 987 00:52:33,349 --> 00:52:37,058 One shoe I was thinking maybe too would be like the Salomon 988 00:52:37,058 --> 00:52:39,530 Genesis. I gotta take that one back out. 989 00:52:39,530 --> 00:52:41,910 Huh. It's a little heavier, but you 990 00:52:41,910 --> 00:52:46,202 might you might be fine in it. Yeah, again, I'm not gonna be 991 00:52:46,202 --> 00:52:47,920 running very fast in these trails. 992 00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,528 Like the runs I have run, like I'm averaging probably around 993 00:52:51,528 --> 00:52:54,799 ten to eleven minutes a mile if I'm running well. 994 00:52:55,119 --> 00:52:58,154 There's definitely some power hiking in there and I'm not that 995 00:52:58,154 --> 00:53:01,333 fast on the downhills, so my downhills really aren't that 996 00:53:01,333 --> 00:53:04,675 much faster than my uphills half the time. 997 00:53:04,675 --> 00:53:08,011 Sure. So try not to die, you know. 998 00:53:08,011 --> 00:53:10,098 So I don't know. We'll see. 999 00:53:10,098 --> 00:53:13,024 That answer could change, but I think it's a fun, I think it's a 1000 00:53:13,024 --> 00:53:15,380 fun question, you know, and it entertains an interesting idea 1001 00:53:15,380 --> 00:53:18,079 for trail racing, especially if you're new to it. 1002 00:53:18,079 --> 00:53:21,086 I think once you've done it for a while, like you kind of have 1003 00:53:21,086 --> 00:53:23,440 an idea of what you like. Same thing with the roads. 1004 00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:27,106 But I I'm not there yet. So I mean I've run like one 1005 00:53:27,106 --> 00:53:29,918 trail race officially. I ran Canyons, you know, a few 1006 00:53:29,918 --> 00:53:31,884 years ago. I don't know if you remember 1007 00:53:31,884 --> 00:53:33,756 that like four or five years ago now. 1008 00:53:33,756 --> 00:53:34,455 Yep. I do. 1009 00:53:34,455 --> 00:53:36,319 I raced in the Hoka Torrent for that. 1010 00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:41,481 But other than that, I mean that's really all I got to my 1011 00:53:41,481 --> 00:53:42,275 name. Yep. 1012 00:53:42,275 --> 00:53:46,640 Are we gonna do one more or what are we doing? 1013 00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:50,348 Yeah, let's let's do a lightning round for the last one. 1014 00:53:50,348 --> 00:53:52,196 Okay. We just got one more. 1015 00:53:52,196 --> 00:53:53,119 Lightning round. Okay. 1016 00:53:53,119 --> 00:53:55,391 Here we go. You have a track 5K. 1017 00:53:55,391 --> 00:53:57,373 Let's assume that you are in shape. 1018 00:53:57,373 --> 00:53:59,354 Oh my gosh. All right, I'm ready. 1019 00:53:59,354 --> 00:54:01,627 Track 5K. Fila Speed Tempo. 1020 00:54:01,627 --> 00:54:05,610 Alpha Fly 4. New Balance SC Rebel. 1021 00:54:05,610 --> 00:54:10,160 Oh Oh gosh, those are all so different. 1022 00:54:10,159 --> 00:54:12,744 But they're all shoes you like. They're all so different. 1023 00:54:12,744 --> 00:54:15,840 Yeah, they are. So I can go fast in all of them. 1024 00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:19,884 Yeah, I've done track in two of those three. 1025 00:54:19,884 --> 00:54:24,239 So I've done Fila on the track, those were 800 repeats. 1026 00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:28,647 I've done SC Rebel, and I've done 400 and 800 repeats in that 1027 00:54:28,647 --> 00:54:31,960 shoe on the track. I have not taken the Alpha Fly 1028 00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:35,248 on the track. So if I had to choose today, I 1029 00:54:35,248 --> 00:54:38,175 would take that one off the list just because I haven't turned in 1030 00:54:38,175 --> 00:54:41,568 that shoe in that way, which is probably fine. 1031 00:54:41,568 --> 00:54:44,334 People do this stuff all the time. 1032 00:54:44,334 --> 00:54:47,263 I just haven't. So I I don't I I wouldn't pull 1033 00:54:47,263 --> 00:54:49,440 it out right now 'cause I don't have that confidence. 1034 00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:53,147 And it's my right ankle that's loose and my fibularis tendons 1035 00:54:53,147 --> 00:54:57,107 get angry even when I'm on the track with like even more stable 1036 00:54:57,107 --> 00:54:58,771 stuff. So fibularis tendons are ones 1037 00:54:58,771 --> 00:55:02,437 the on the outside of your ankle and when you're if I'm turning 1038 00:55:02,437 --> 00:55:05,816 left, it's usually your right foot where those fibularis 1039 00:55:05,816 --> 00:55:09,679 muscles are really having to like keep your foot stable. 1040 00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:12,000 So because of that, I'm gonna take the Alpha Fly out. 1041 00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:16,268 I did do mile repeats in the Alpha Fly two weeks ago now, or 1042 00:55:16,268 --> 00:55:19,360 like a week and a half. Felt really great for that. 1043 00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:25,335 But it wasn't a wasn't a race. I did find that when I did eight 1044 00:55:25,335 --> 00:55:29,759 hundreds on the I did them on like a road in the Alpha Fly. 1045 00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:33,686 I felt like when I was pushing at my like Technically I was 1046 00:55:33,686 --> 00:55:38,400 supposed to go 5K pace, I I went under my 5K pace for that 1047 00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:42,000 workout because I couldn't like keep myself under control. 1048 00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:45,822 I was kind of bottoming out the heel a little bit when I was 1049 00:55:45,822 --> 00:55:48,350 getting really tired. So I don't know if I would have 1050 00:55:48,350 --> 00:55:50,480 I would love it for a mile anyway for myself. 1051 00:55:51,039 --> 00:55:55,070 So because of that I'm gonna take Alpha Fly out for the track 1052 00:55:55,070 --> 00:55:57,550 5K, not mile. Oh, you said a 5K. 1053 00:55:57,550 --> 00:56:00,794 Track 5K, yes. You're not you're not ripping. 1054 00:56:00,794 --> 00:56:02,133 Track 5K. Yeah. 1055 00:56:02,133 --> 00:56:05,255 Twelve and a half laps, four laps. 1056 00:56:05,255 --> 00:56:06,593 Yeah. Oh shoot. 1057 00:56:06,593 --> 00:56:09,127 Yeah. So you could probably trust the 1058 00:56:09,127 --> 00:56:13,303 turns a little bit more in the Alpha Fly than the channel. 1059 00:56:13,303 --> 00:56:17,609 Sorry, I'd I misheard that. Because I did my 5K time trial 1060 00:56:17,609 --> 00:56:21,279 in the Alpha Fly. You're making this hard for me. 1061 00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:24,688 I still think I'm gonna That's the goal. 1062 00:56:24,688 --> 00:56:27,519 I think I'm gonna still take the Alpha Fly out right now. 1063 00:56:27,519 --> 00:56:30,879 If it was on the road, I would take the Alpha Fly for sure. 1064 00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:34,351 But it's the track element just and again, this is a because of 1065 00:56:34,351 --> 00:56:37,279 my lack of experience. I'm just a newbie on the track. 1066 00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:44,920 Like I went out there and then like I don't even in my mind 1067 00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:51,240 have conversions of like time Are you able to speak in meters 1068 00:56:51,240 --> 00:56:53,200 yet? Not not well. 1069 00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,910 Kind of like how I was like, oh yeah, I fell like four to eight 1070 00:56:56,910 --> 00:56:59,808 hundred meters from the like Yeah, kind of from the track 1071 00:56:59,808 --> 00:57:02,728 background, it actually makes more sense to talk in meters 1072 00:57:02,728 --> 00:57:07,344 until it like gets up to like I don't know, I guess like half 1073 00:57:07,344 --> 00:57:11,280 marathon, marathon, like those are kind of people I'm not gonna 1074 00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:16,444 say 42K, you know, but Right. Yeah, I feel like definitely 1075 00:57:16,444 --> 00:57:20,500 anything submile for sure. I definitely don't speak in 1076 00:57:20,500 --> 00:57:24,854 yards, you know, or like it's it's that's all metric. 1077 00:57:24,854 --> 00:57:26,159 Yeah. That's great. 1078 00:57:26,159 --> 00:57:29,633 So much for this being a lightning round, huh? 1079 00:57:29,633 --> 00:57:33,099 Sorry everybody. My I think though my pick would 1080 00:57:33,099 --> 00:57:36,159 be the SC Rebel. I've been really comfortable on 1081 00:57:36,159 --> 00:57:39,735 the track in that shoe. It's firm enough where I feel 1082 00:57:39,735 --> 00:57:41,787 really confident with all the steps. 1083 00:57:41,787 --> 00:57:43,839 It's rhythmic. I can go quick. 1084 00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:47,858 I I think that it's got enough like pop to make me feel like 1085 00:57:47,858 --> 00:57:51,009 it's helping me. I love the Fila Speed Tempo, but 1086 00:57:51,009 --> 00:57:56,227 I don't know if I would feel as lovely in it at 5K as I do 1087 00:57:56,227 --> 00:57:58,240 during like shorter like repeat workouts. 1088 00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:00,960 Really? Where I get a little bit of 1089 00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:02,320 break in between. Yeah. 1090 00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:06,503 I I just it's very lightweight, but it doesn't give stuff back 1091 00:58:06,503 --> 00:58:08,544 to you. It's got a little bit of 1092 00:58:08,544 --> 00:58:11,000 flexibility in the forefoot. It's a little bit firmer, so 1093 00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:14,120 it's not like it's popping you forward or you know, it doesn't 1094 00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:16,879 feel propulsive, which I kind of would like for 5K. 1095 00:58:16,879 --> 00:58:19,119 It's just something that it's giving to me. 1096 00:58:19,119 --> 00:58:22,297 I feel like with the what I love about the feel of shoe is like I 1097 00:58:22,297 --> 00:58:25,099 can put in the work and it's gonna come with me because it's 1098 00:58:25,099 --> 00:58:26,880 lightweight and it disappears on my foot. 1099 00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:30,912 But I don't know if I'd feel the same at mile two and a half, and 1100 00:58:30,912 --> 00:58:33,679 I think that the SC Rebel would win out for me. 1101 00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:36,080 So that'd be my pick. Nice. 1102 00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:38,880 Yeah. Road though I'd take the Alpha 1103 00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:40,880 Fly. Yeah, like Road 5K. 1104 00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:43,600 Yeah, it's predictable. You kinda know what you're 1105 00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:44,512 getting there. Yeah. 1106 00:58:44,512 --> 00:58:46,336 Yeah. I would have picked something 1107 00:58:46,336 --> 00:58:49,944 else if that was the situation. I think the I think with the 1108 00:58:49,944 --> 00:58:52,496 track in mind and knowing you're not quite as experienced and 1109 00:58:52,496 --> 00:58:55,508 knowing you gotta turn in these super shoes, right? 1110 00:58:55,508 --> 00:58:58,049 Like Yes. Maybe I would get there. 1111 00:58:58,049 --> 00:59:01,679 If I try if I just practice, I'll get there. 1112 00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:04,184 And also like how confident are you running with other bodies 1113 00:59:04,184 --> 00:59:06,597 around you on a track when you're turning and everything's 1114 00:59:06,597 --> 00:59:08,663 real tight? Like there's a lot of traffic 1115 00:59:08,663 --> 00:59:11,759 and there's a lot of contact when you're on on the track. 1116 00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:17,280 So if you're on something you don't trust, it's also that can 1117 00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:20,500 be a little dicey in itself. Yep. 1118 00:59:20,500 --> 00:59:22,832 Okay. So we'll try to lightning round 1119 00:59:22,832 --> 00:59:25,952 your last one. But I actually I have it like 1120 00:59:25,952 --> 00:59:29,000 kind of two pronged. So you're gonna be doing a 1121 00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:32,300 workout, it's you're on the road, so you're not on the 1122 00:59:32,300 --> 00:59:35,760 track, you're doing road mile repeats with like you know, two 1123 00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:38,663 minute break in between. You can jog those, you can walk 1124 00:59:38,663 --> 00:59:41,447 'em, whatever you wanna do. And you gotta do like four to 1125 00:59:41,447 --> 00:59:44,176 six. So it's a l little bit for me, 1126 00:59:44,176 --> 00:59:47,608 that'd be a longer workout, like a pretty pretty decent workout. 1127 00:59:47,608 --> 00:59:50,420 Yeah. So you've got mile repeats, 1128 00:59:50,420 --> 00:59:56,228 you're doing those repeats like just sub 5K effort, maybe even a 1129 00:59:56,228 --> 00:59:59,749 little bit faster. Just kind of it's so it's quick. 1130 00:59:59,749 --> 01:00:01,519 Yep. So I have two prongs. 1131 01:00:01,519 --> 01:00:04,480 The first are three like performance shoe options, the 1132 01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:07,440 other one is doing this in super shoe options. 1133 01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:11,028 So I'm gonna give you the the trainer shoe options is like the 1134 01:00:11,028 --> 01:00:12,960 first ones you have to pick between. 1135 01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:19,225 So New Balance SC Rebel, Topo Spectre 3, or ASICS Sonicblast 1136 01:00:19,225 --> 01:00:21,501 2. Oh, that's easy. 1137 01:00:21,501 --> 01:00:24,463 SC Rebel. Yeah, SC Rebel feels the fastest 1138 01:00:24,463 --> 01:00:27,598 out of the bunch. Like Sonicblast for me feels 1139 01:00:27,598 --> 01:00:31,811 good at more like marathon type of efforts and just long 1140 01:00:31,811 --> 01:00:35,066 rhythmic road efforts. The Spectre 3 for some reason 1141 01:00:35,066 --> 01:00:39,619 the upper my toes like hit the top of that little like overlay 1142 01:00:39,619 --> 01:00:44,103 on the thing oh yeah that's fair I I can't describe it and I I 1143 01:00:44,103 --> 01:00:48,358 actually got two pairs and it happens in both so I don't know 1144 01:00:48,358 --> 01:00:53,804 like I I want to really like that shoe I feel like there's so 1145 01:00:53,804 --> 01:00:57,685 many elements that that do agree with me but it almost like gets 1146 01:00:57,685 --> 01:01:01,039 to the point where like my pinky toenail like I get a little 1147 01:01:01,039 --> 01:01:02,593 worried about like jamming it up there. 1148 01:01:02,593 --> 01:01:05,257 Maybe like I extend my toes a little bit when I run. 1149 01:01:05,257 --> 01:01:06,614 I don't know. Maybe I Right. 1150 01:01:06,614 --> 01:01:09,386 It could be just something I've always done and I don't realize 1151 01:01:09,386 --> 01:01:12,420 I do it. And then that shoe just like 1152 01:01:12,420 --> 01:01:17,490 made me notice it. But yeah I just I I it's not for 1153 01:01:17,490 --> 01:01:19,440 me. It's almost for me. 1154 01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:23,723 I don't but it that little thing makes me like worried about like 1155 01:01:23,723 --> 01:01:26,778 like hurting my nail. I don't know, or like I I just 1156 01:01:26,778 --> 01:01:28,514 feels like scratchy almost or like a catch. 1157 01:01:28,514 --> 01:01:31,462 You know what I mean? And my nails aren't even long. 1158 01:01:31,462 --> 01:01:33,518 Sure. It's not even like it's not like 1159 01:01:33,518 --> 01:01:36,079 it's like, oh just trim your trim the dogs, boy. 1160 01:01:36,079 --> 01:01:39,679 Like no, I didn't It's not even like that. 1161 01:01:39,679 --> 01:01:41,679 That's not the problem. Yeah. 1162 01:01:41,679 --> 01:01:46,722 I don't it's a weird one. I it's it's so weird, it feels 1163 01:01:46,722 --> 01:01:50,869 almost embarrassing to say, but yeah, I would go SC Rebel. 1164 01:01:50,869 --> 01:01:52,000 Love it. Cool. 1165 01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:56,272 Alright, and then if you were gonna be doing this in super 1166 01:01:56,272 --> 01:01:59,120 shoes, I'm giving you basically all of them. 1167 01:01:59,119 --> 01:02:03,199 So you get to pick between the Saucony Endorphin Elite 3. 1168 01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:12,311 Skechers Aero Elite, New Balance SC Elite version 6, or ASICS 1169 01:02:12,311 --> 01:02:16,451 MetaSpeed. Insert your selection here. 1170 01:02:16,451 --> 01:02:20,190 Tokyo...NATE! So that could be Okay, well, 1171 01:02:20,190 --> 01:02:25,520 I'll tell you, Endorphin Elite 3 did not agree with me. 1172 01:02:25,519 --> 01:02:27,661 Okay, it's your... well, it wasn't bad. 1173 01:02:27,661 --> 01:02:30,719 It's just for me, it definitely controlled up tempo efforts. 1174 01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:33,456 It's a little unstable. Like it definitely it's really 1175 01:02:33,456 --> 01:02:35,979 soft. Like I would not choose that for 1176 01:02:35,979 --> 01:02:39,143 like a 5K type of like definitely more marathon, half 1177 01:02:39,143 --> 01:02:41,039 marathon. Like I so that's out. 1178 01:02:41,039 --> 01:02:43,519 Yeah. And then what was the other one? 1179 01:02:43,519 --> 01:02:46,591 You had the Skechers, you had the ASICS, and then there was 1180 01:02:46,591 --> 01:02:48,127 another one in there. New Balance. 1181 01:02:48,127 --> 01:02:50,080 New Balance. Yeah, the New Balance I kinda 1182 01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:52,960 like more in the that one can definitely go faster than the 1183 01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:54,392 Endorphin Elite for me personally. 1184 01:02:54,392 --> 01:02:57,879 But I still feel like that one's more in the half marathon 1185 01:02:57,879 --> 01:03:00,809 marathon realm for me. It's just not something I like 1186 01:03:00,809 --> 01:03:04,345 it's light, but I just don't really find that it has the 1187 01:03:04,345 --> 01:03:06,385 responsiveness I like for a 5K shoe. 1188 01:03:06,385 --> 01:03:10,168 I could totally run one in it. It's just I choose some other 1189 01:03:10,168 --> 01:03:13,699 things over it. So that narrows it down to the 1190 01:03:13,699 --> 01:03:17,119 Skechers Aero Elite and the ASICS MetaSpeed Edge Tokyo. 1191 01:03:17,119 --> 01:03:19,317 I tend to gravitate towards the Edge. 1192 01:03:19,317 --> 01:03:24,537 I'm not a big Sky person. I was gonna be Aero Elite all of 1193 01:03:24,537 --> 01:03:30,371 the way until you said Edge. You know, that was that makes it 1194 01:03:30,371 --> 01:03:36,079 really, really tough for me. I think I'm gonna go Oh man. 1195 01:03:36,079 --> 01:03:39,279 I think I'm gonna go with the Edge Tokyo. 1196 01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:43,099 I think just having a little bit more of a structured rear foot 1197 01:03:43,099 --> 01:03:45,199 and midfoot with having that really poppy forefoot. 1198 01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:49,453 I think I just like that structure a little bit more, but 1199 01:03:49,453 --> 01:03:53,641 the Aero Elite feels like a faster shoe for me, if that 1200 01:03:53,641 --> 01:03:56,639 makes sense, for like lower for lower distance things. 1201 01:03:56,639 --> 01:04:02,684 Like it's it's a fun just ATPU that's just like bouncy, like 1202 01:04:02,684 --> 01:04:05,199 that whole platform's quick. Yeah. 1203 01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:08,905 But I think I just even in a 5K type of workout or mile repeat 1204 01:04:08,905 --> 01:04:11,840 at that kind of pace, especially when you start getting into the 1205 01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:15,468 fifth and sixth rep. I think I just like that little 1206 01:04:15,468 --> 01:04:19,347 bit of more of a structured sensation that you get in the 1207 01:04:19,347 --> 01:04:20,639 MetaSpeed Edge Tokyo. Yeah. 1208 01:04:20,639 --> 01:04:22,800 And that was my racing shoe of the year last year. 1209 01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:26,730 So that is also like a hard it's a hard thing to go up against, 1210 01:04:26,730 --> 01:04:29,533 you know, when you're the Skechers Arrow Elite, which is 1211 01:04:29,533 --> 01:04:32,239 one of my favorite racing shoes this year, you know. 1212 01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:36,742 But yeah, I'm gonna have to go with the MetaSpeed Edge Tokyo in 1213 01:04:36,742 --> 01:04:39,997 that one. And then I'll hit you with one 1214 01:04:39,997 --> 01:04:42,640 more really, really fast before we close out. 1215 01:04:42,639 --> 01:04:46,374 You have guaranteed, so like finances are not an issue. 1216 01:04:46,374 --> 01:04:49,904 PR is not an issue. You're gonna PR, everything's 1217 01:04:49,904 --> 01:04:53,232 covered, it's a dream situation, no matter what. 1218 01:04:53,232 --> 01:04:56,144 Okay. You haven't run a major yet, 1219 01:04:56,144 --> 01:04:57,311 right? No. 1220 01:04:57,311 --> 01:05:01,170 Well, I've ran Chicago. Oh, you have you have a Chicago. 1221 01:05:01,170 --> 01:05:04,320 But now you have your choice. In like 2017. 1222 01:05:04,639 --> 01:05:06,769 It's been a long time. So you can run either Boston, 1223 01:05:06,769 --> 01:05:09,097 New York, whatever you want, but you get you get to choose 1224 01:05:09,097 --> 01:05:12,890 between you had you get to have your special day on either a 1225 01:05:12,890 --> 01:05:14,719 domestic major or an international major. 1226 01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:19,270 Either one is your choice of where it is and what it what's 1227 01:05:19,270 --> 01:05:24,159 going on, what do you go with? So what race am I gonna run? 1228 01:05:24,159 --> 01:05:26,464 Basically. Yeah, is the dream Boston or New 1229 01:05:26,464 --> 01:05:28,480 York, or is the dream or Chicago? 1230 01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:34,546 Or is the dream, you know, London, Berlin, Sydney, Tokyo? 1231 01:05:34,546 --> 01:05:39,394 And we'll just lump it domestic or international. 1232 01:05:39,394 --> 01:05:43,261 Wow. And it's a day you're gonna 1233 01:05:43,261 --> 01:05:47,062 remember for the rest of your life. 1234 01:05:47,062 --> 01:05:50,320 Like it's the PR Yeah. Yep. 1235 01:05:50,320 --> 01:06:01,623 I'm gonna go I know you said all things are equal, but I'm still 1236 01:06:01,623 --> 01:06:08,079 thinking practically No, no, like finances are covered. 1237 01:06:08,079 --> 01:06:11,573 I think I'm gonna I I'm gonna go domestic and I'm even gonna say 1238 01:06:11,573 --> 01:06:14,516 I'd go Chicago. And it's because of just the 1239 01:06:14,516 --> 01:06:18,540 personal connections that I have to that city that our family's 1240 01:06:18,540 --> 01:06:21,616 done stuff there together. I know we'd all be there and it 1241 01:06:21,616 --> 01:06:24,237 would be fun to like finish that race and celebrate in a place 1242 01:06:24,237 --> 01:06:28,279 that we kind of know and that we'd get to go experience food 1243 01:06:28,279 --> 01:06:33,146 at places that we know we like to eat and our boys love when we 1244 01:06:33,146 --> 01:06:36,159 got to...we went with them for their birthday one year. 1245 01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:39,640 So I think that would be my choice, mostly for like the 1246 01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:40,800 connection of nostalgia. Yeah. 1247 01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:42,880 Knowing that we could probably find that stuff. 1248 01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:46,199 But I think that being tired, finishing the race, being 1249 01:06:46,199 --> 01:06:49,840 confident in where we existed and where we were gonna go. 1250 01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:54,110 I think I'd like that. Take away like communication 1251 01:06:54,110 --> 01:06:56,480 variables somewhere that we know. 1252 01:06:56,480 --> 01:07:01,844 And I like I love Chicago, England does it. 1253 01:07:01,844 --> 01:07:06,612 Marathon itself is so cool. Yeah, you know. 1254 01:07:06,612 --> 01:07:10,720 Don't overthink it. There's no language. 1255 01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:15,760 I'm pretty sure in Australia English too, my guy. 1256 01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:18,000 Okay. I'm just kidding. 1257 01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:23,370 We're not I shouldn't put that stereotype on on my own people. 1258 01:07:23,370 --> 01:07:27,840 No, but we I think the familiarity would be nice. 1259 01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,889 That's why I would pick domestic and I would pick Chicago in 1260 01:07:30,889 --> 01:07:32,159 particular. That's a good one. 1261 01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:35,568 Yeah, that was actually on my original this for that before we 1262 01:07:35,568 --> 01:07:38,400 talked about things. Till we went to the shoe one. 1263 01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:40,000 That's great. I love it. 1264 01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:42,880 Alright, well thank you everybody for joining us for 1265 01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:45,812 this episode. David, it's fun to chat with you 1266 01:07:45,812 --> 01:07:48,859 as it always is. And we always are welcoming 1267 01:07:48,859 --> 01:07:52,687 other questions or topic ideas that people want to hear about, 1268 01:07:52,687 --> 01:07:55,384 you can email it. Email us at 1269 01:07:55,384 --> 01:07:59,292 doctorsofrunning@gmail.com and we would love to hear from you. 1270 01:07:59,292 --> 01:08:00,160 Thanks everybody.