1 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,900 Hello and welcome to the doctors of running podcast where we a 2 00:00:12,900 --> 00:00:16,100 group of doctors of physical therapy, discussed the art and 3 00:00:16,100 --> 00:00:18,600 the science of the stuff that we're putting on our feet. 4 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,200 I met in Korea, Myers. And I'm here with dear our 5 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:25,700 contributor Megan Flynn, and we are so excited to have a very 6 00:00:25,700 --> 00:00:28,800 special guest on with us today. Amelia Boone. 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,100 Amelia is Is an incredible obstacle racer and ultrarunner 8 00:00:33,100 --> 00:00:35,900 and we're just so happy to have her on the Pod to talk about 9 00:00:35,900 --> 00:00:41,600 training and racing and Life Training balance for those who 10 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,000 don't know, Amelia she is a full-time corporate attorney. 11 00:00:45,300 --> 00:00:47,300 An obstacle racer, an ultra Runner. 12 00:00:47,300 --> 00:00:50,800 She is also a four-time world champion and one of the most 13 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,700 decorated obstacle, racers in history, over her career, she 14 00:00:54,700 --> 00:00:59,100 has amassed more than 50 podiums and 30 victories in obstacle 15 00:00:59,100 --> 00:01:04,800 racing. One of the most impressive race 16 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,900 results that Amelia has had, is she is a three-time Death Race 17 00:01:08,900 --> 00:01:12,800 finisher, which I would like to hear more about what exactly the 18 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,600 Death Race is Amelia. So you'll have to tell us a 19 00:01:15,608 --> 00:01:18,900 little more about that. Yeah, absolutely. 20 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,600 So, to get started, we always do a subjective at the beginning of 21 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,800 an episode. So we want to know from you 22 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:28,900 listeners. How do you balance running with 23 00:01:28,900 --> 00:01:31,600 everyday life? I really want to hear more about 24 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,800 how Amelia can balance being a corporate attorney and getting 25 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,800 all the training, she needs to get in and be such an amazing 26 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,900 racer. So, leave a comment either on 27 00:01:40,900 --> 00:01:45,500 the podcast web page on YouTube or send us an email at doctors 28 00:01:45,500 --> 00:01:49,700 running at gmail.com. So, Amelia, I think the first 29 00:01:49,700 --> 00:01:51,500 thing I would love to know about Eros. 30 00:01:51,500 --> 00:01:54,600 How did you get started in obstacle racing, have you always 31 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,100 been a runner or was this something that you picked up 32 00:01:57,100 --> 00:01:59,300 later in life? Yeah. 33 00:01:59,300 --> 00:02:03,900 It It was something I picked up later in life so I played team 34 00:02:03,900 --> 00:02:05,700 sports growing up. I played soccer, played 35 00:02:05,700 --> 00:02:07,600 softball, softball was actually my main sport. 36 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:14,300 I was a pitcher and I would run to stay in shape, but I never 37 00:02:14,300 --> 00:02:17,800 really early like to train to stay in shape for soccer. 38 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,800 But it was never, it was never my sport. 39 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:21,300 Never ran cross-country, you never ran track. 40 00:02:21,300 --> 00:02:26,200 I went to undergrad. I went to law school and I was a 41 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,600 first-year associate at a large law firm in Chicago. 42 00:02:28,608 --> 00:02:33,200 And I had one of my My one of my co-workers come in be like, 43 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,800 check this out. You have to see this crazy race 44 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:40,900 that's coming to town and it was a tough mudder and I never run 45 00:02:40,900 --> 00:02:43,400 10 miles before at once in my life. 46 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:48,000 So I didn't even know if I could do it but we signed up as kind 47 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:53,000 of a group to go do it and I had a blast and everyone else 48 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,700 thought, okay, that was fun. Mark it off the list. 49 00:02:55,700 --> 00:02:59,100 Go on to other things and immediately I was like, oh, what 50 00:02:59,100 --> 00:03:02,100 can I do next one? I do another one of these I was 51 00:03:02,100 --> 00:03:04,400 terrible at it. I could have fell off the monkey 52 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,300 bars. I couldn't do anything but for 53 00:03:06,300 --> 00:03:11,100 some reason I just really appeal to me and so I think I was 54 00:03:11,100 --> 00:03:16,000 twenty-six twenty-seven out this time and that's really was kind 55 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,100 of my first intro into competition and running really 56 00:03:19,900 --> 00:03:22,900 oh that's awesome. So what was this? 57 00:03:22,900 --> 00:03:25,600 So it was a 10-mile Tough Mudder where was it? 58 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,300 It was in Wisconsin. It was at like in Baraboo 59 00:03:28,300 --> 00:03:31,600 Wisconsin, it was at the school. Little ski resort up there. 60 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,700 And so, yeah, it was just kind of like up and down these ski 61 00:03:35,700 --> 00:03:38,900 hills, and then you would do an obstacle, and jump in water and 62 00:03:38,900 --> 00:03:42,100 crawl through mud. And I just thought it was unlike 63 00:03:42,100 --> 00:03:46,000 anything I'd ever experienced and instantly, I was hooked. 64 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,900 And then, all of a sudden, I saw that they have this 24-hour race 65 00:03:48,900 --> 00:03:52,400 that you could do, and where you could run Loops of this course, 66 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:56,100 for 24 hours. And for some reason, I thought I 67 00:03:56,100 --> 00:04:02,300 could absolutely do this. Granted, I had never run like, I 68 00:04:02,300 --> 00:04:05,500 did one half marathon to trade. I was like if I can run a half 69 00:04:05,500 --> 00:04:09,900 marathon, I'll be good. Yeah, yeah. 70 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,000 That's how it all started. I did not, I went from like 0 to 71 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:17,300 100 immediately. So I think for a lot of go ahead 72 00:04:17,300 --> 00:04:21,800 Mikan, I was going to ask. I've never done an obstacle race 73 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,300 or anything. But how did you change your 74 00:04:24,300 --> 00:04:27,300 training or like your preparation leading up to the 75 00:04:27,300 --> 00:04:29,500 obstacles? Like, do you actually practice? 76 00:04:29,500 --> 00:04:33,500 What you're Expecting to see on course honestly after that. 77 00:04:33,500 --> 00:04:36,400 After I failed. So miserably the first time I 78 00:04:37,100 --> 00:04:40,300 started CrossFit and this was right in the Heyday of the 79 00:04:40,300 --> 00:04:44,700 CrossFit phase like 2011, when things were just really ramping 80 00:04:44,700 --> 00:04:48,000 up and taking off and actually ended up competing in CrossFit 81 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:52,100 for a while to as well. I could not do it now. 82 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:56,000 We'd say, let's now we're just no, no, no, no my everything 83 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,800 hurts just looking at it, but back in the day, I was actually 84 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:01,800 Pretty good and that helped a lot. 85 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,300 I think just mimicking kind of the grip strength that you need 86 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,600 because that's really all these obstacles come down to is it's 87 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,600 just being able to like have really good grip strength and 88 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,600 support your body weight through over long periods of time. 89 00:05:16,500 --> 00:05:20,100 I don't know a lot of people who do obstacle races but you know, 90 00:05:20,100 --> 00:05:22,300 my impression of what the obstacles are. 91 00:05:22,300 --> 00:05:25,300 As of course, the most extreme like you run through something 92 00:05:25,300 --> 00:05:29,300 and try not to get electrocuted. So besides that, what can you 93 00:05:29,300 --> 00:05:32,700 tell us, Like, what some of the other non electrocution, 94 00:05:32,700 --> 00:05:33,900 obstacles, anyone? Yes. 95 00:05:33,900 --> 00:05:37,000 And that's an honestly, they've gone away from that because I 96 00:05:37,008 --> 00:05:39,700 think some of us have been electrocuted. 97 00:05:39,700 --> 00:05:42,500 So many times that it's just terrible. 98 00:05:43,300 --> 00:05:47,800 So I mean, mainly it's it's things like climbing over walls 99 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:52,600 crawling under barbed wire, rope climbs monkey bars, that kind of 100 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,300 go like up, there's like swinging rings. 101 00:05:54,300 --> 00:05:58,800 So I tell people think of American Ninja Warrior but like 102 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,500 scaled down. And then there's a bunch of 103 00:06:01,500 --> 00:06:04,700 running in between those kinds of obstacles. 104 00:06:04,700 --> 00:06:08,500 So it's a lot of kind of just, you know, grip strength type of 105 00:06:08,500 --> 00:06:11,100 stuff. And how do you prepare for the 106 00:06:11,100 --> 00:06:14,000 Running part of it? I would assume that it creates a 107 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:15,600 10-mile race. Then you've got some obstacles 108 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,400 where your heart rate is still going to be high but for 109 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:22,100 different reasons. So, do you do like shorter 110 00:06:22,100 --> 00:06:26,000 intervals to prepare and then intersperse like maybe some 111 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,700 strength work between those running intervals, what's your? 112 00:06:29,900 --> 00:06:31,500 Raining. Yeah, you actually kind of 113 00:06:31,500 --> 00:06:33,400 nailed it. So I think at the time when I 114 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,700 was doing, I actually didn't run high mileage at all. 115 00:06:36,300 --> 00:06:39,100 Many of my world championships. That sounds terrible. 116 00:06:39,300 --> 00:06:44,900 My I think I was running maybe 20 to 30 miles a week and but it 117 00:06:44,900 --> 00:06:48,900 was a lot of kind of intervals. It would be like, run half a 118 00:06:48,908 --> 00:06:51,600 mile, then stop and do like 30, burpees something, where you 119 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:55,400 spike, your heart rate and then run again, or do a bunch of 120 00:06:55,408 --> 00:06:58,700 pull-ups and then run again, which is why I like CrossFit 121 00:06:58,700 --> 00:07:01,300 kind of Lent itself. Do it because I would just be 122 00:07:01,300 --> 00:07:05,600 the person doing laps around, you know, the half mile route 123 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:09,700 and then coming back in and then doing something grip oriented. 124 00:07:10,100 --> 00:07:13,800 And so I think over time, especially when I started 125 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,500 obstacle racing, we had nobody had any idea how to train for 126 00:07:16,500 --> 00:07:17,800 it. And so we all were just kind of 127 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,900 making it up as we go along. Now, you actually see gyms that 128 00:07:21,900 --> 00:07:25,700 where they rebuild obstacles from the races and you can 129 00:07:25,700 --> 00:07:28,100 actually go and practice on them, but we didn't have that 130 00:07:28,100 --> 00:07:30,700 back, you know, a decade ago. So Mmm. 131 00:07:30,900 --> 00:07:34,000 Yeah, so much has changed. Yeah, and like the past five or 132 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:38,100 ten years with the popularity of Spartan Racing, Tough Mudders 133 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,100 American Ninja Warrior, where you've got gyms that are 134 00:07:41,100 --> 00:07:45,200 dedicated to people preparing for obstacles, like that. 135 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,500 Yeah, that's why I'm sure it's really elevated. 136 00:07:47,500 --> 00:07:52,100 The quality of the fields to because people, you people now 137 00:07:52,100 --> 00:07:55,200 know how to better train. Yeah, absolutely. 138 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:59,200 And and you see we've seen a lot more crossover of people that 139 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,000 come in. It's really strong, track 140 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,900 backgrounds, or cross-country backgrounds, and then, if they 141 00:08:03,900 --> 00:08:07,900 can get over the hurdle to, to learn how to do the obstacles, 142 00:08:07,900 --> 00:08:12,200 it'll be really really good. But I think a lot of I always 143 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,200 try to encourage since I'm now more in the ultra running world 144 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,000 and I try to encourage a lot of people to go and try them and go 145 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:20,700 and try a Spartan Race, do something like that and 146 00:08:20,700 --> 00:08:22,700 everyone's always afraid of getting injured or something 147 00:08:22,700 --> 00:08:25,700 like that. So there is like that resistance 148 00:08:25,900 --> 00:08:29,300 and I get it as a runner who has been injured many many times in 149 00:08:29,300 --> 00:08:30,100 my life. Life. 150 00:08:30,300 --> 00:08:31,700 There's always the back of my mind. 151 00:08:31,700 --> 00:08:35,200 I'm like, do not fall down the backside of this obstacle type 152 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:40,600 of thing and so it's can sometimes be a hard sell for 153 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:42,100 sure. Yes. 154 00:08:43,100 --> 00:08:46,300 It's kind of like cyclists, you know, Road cyclists not wanting 155 00:08:46,300 --> 00:08:49,700 to take up mountain biking. Exactly rash, which is funny 156 00:08:49,700 --> 00:08:52,400 because you crash on a mountain bike and it's way less 157 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:57,200 catastrophic than crashing on a road bike in my experience, so 158 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:02,600 Sam So, tell us about the Death Race. 159 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:04,800 What is it? Why is it called that? 160 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,700 And you did it? How many times I finished three 161 00:09:08,700 --> 00:09:11,100 times, I finish three times. I did it four times. 162 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,700 There's no way my only dnf to this day it and it was because I 163 00:09:14,700 --> 00:09:17,800 got frostbite and my hands and toes. 164 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:23,300 And to this day I saw the issues from it so it's a race that was 165 00:09:23,300 --> 00:09:25,500 created before. Actually it was the founder of 166 00:09:25,500 --> 00:09:29,100 the Spartan rate of Spartan Race Jo de Sena, but before Spartan 167 00:09:29,100 --> 00:09:33,400 Race was did he decided to have this race on his property up in 168 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:38,700 Vermont, were basically You go until they tell you that the 169 00:09:38,700 --> 00:09:41,400 race is over. So you you kind of know when the 170 00:09:41,408 --> 00:09:43,900 race starts? You don't really know what you 171 00:09:43,900 --> 00:09:45,600 don't know when it ends for sure. 172 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:50,200 I think the longest one ever did lasted 79 hours, the shortest 173 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:55,500 was like 36 and they give you a gearless and you show up one 174 00:09:55,500 --> 00:09:57,800 year. I was a bag of onions, 20 pounds 175 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,700 of pennies. What else if we had to bring 176 00:10:00,700 --> 00:10:06,900 adult diapers one year and they basically take you Through a 177 00:10:06,900 --> 00:10:11,900 series of tasks or sometimes it may be something like run to the 178 00:10:11,900 --> 00:10:14,400 top of this mountain, memorize the Bible verse at the top of 179 00:10:14,408 --> 00:10:16,100 the mountain. And then you have to come down 180 00:10:16,100 --> 00:10:19,900 and recite the Bible verse back. But you've been up for 48 hours. 181 00:10:19,900 --> 00:10:23,800 And so, your memory is kind of shot or there's knows I'm not 182 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,000 forget, I had to make an origami crane at one point to be able to 183 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:32,200 go to the next checkpoint and your so sleep deprived. 184 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,700 So you're just like, I don't even know how to make an origami 185 00:10:34,700 --> 00:10:36,500 crane. I've is just so terrible. 186 00:10:36,700 --> 00:10:39,900 All terrible. But it was basically it was fun. 187 00:10:39,900 --> 00:10:43,600 And the way that what it really appealed to were people that 188 00:10:43,900 --> 00:10:47,800 wanted to see how far they could go and how do you deal with that 189 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,300 unknown of not knowing when something is going to be over 190 00:10:51,500 --> 00:10:55,500 because you run a marathon for instance and you know, you may 191 00:10:55,500 --> 00:10:58,500 be at Mile 22 but you know in four point two miles, you're 192 00:10:58,500 --> 00:11:02,900 going to be done. And so it's kind of that same 193 00:11:02,900 --> 00:11:05,100 ethos is that we've seen a lot with like the last person 194 00:11:05,100 --> 00:11:08,100 standing races and I did Big backyard twice. 195 00:11:08,300 --> 00:11:12,400 And so it's not you have to gear really up to just know like you 196 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,600 don't know when this is going to end it just can keep going and 197 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:20,000 going and going. So what were some like mental 198 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,400 strategies that you use to get through race like that? 199 00:11:23,700 --> 00:11:27,400 I think it's the same thing that I use with any other with it. 200 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,300 Almost any Ultra that I do is just basically I do. 201 00:11:30,300 --> 00:11:32,200 Like the chunking thing to think. 202 00:11:32,300 --> 00:11:35,400 Just get through the next mile. Get through the next 10 minutes 203 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,200 just get through this task. Because it when you start to 204 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:43,000 look at the overarching thing as a whole, that's when you start 205 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,200 to, just give up on yourself. I mean, if you're on 100 Miler 206 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,000 and you're at Mile, 20, and you're hurting already you 207 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:49,800 think? Oh God. 208 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:51,600 There's no way. I have 18 more miles left in me 209 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:55,500 and I have been in that position before, but you have to kind of 210 00:11:55,500 --> 00:12:00,300 know that you'll kind of ride these waves that you'll go up 211 00:12:00,300 --> 00:12:02,100 and down and through the race and whatnot. 212 00:12:02,100 --> 00:12:05,700 So I always try and just not look ahead and stay focused in 213 00:12:05,700 --> 00:12:06,500 the moment. I don't see. 214 00:12:06,700 --> 00:12:10,600 Distract myself a lot, whether that be in World, Service 215 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,900 matter, the race, where you run, an obstacle race for 24 hours, I 216 00:12:13,900 --> 00:12:17,000 would always sing songs to myself in my head to keep myself 217 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,700 occupied or just talk with other competitors. 218 00:12:21,100 --> 00:12:24,200 You know, things just to get yourself out of your own brain. 219 00:12:24,700 --> 00:12:28,900 Oh yeah. For the for the most part, do 220 00:12:28,900 --> 00:12:32,100 you know, like besides the, the Death Race? 221 00:12:32,100 --> 00:12:35,000 Do, you know like what obstacles are going to be on the course 222 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,200 and where they're positioned? For the most part, when I first 223 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,000 started we didn't it. There were no course Maps, you 224 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:45,000 just thought it would be maybe around, eight miles, 10 miles, 225 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,400 and you just go out there and do whatever it is that you face. 226 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,500 But now, I mean over the past decade, Spartan Race and Tough 227 00:12:51,500 --> 00:12:54,300 Mudder have really made a push to make it a legitimate Sport 228 00:12:54,700 --> 00:12:57,500 and it very much is yes. There's a course map. 229 00:12:57,500 --> 00:13:00,600 You know what the obstacles are going to be like, you can go out 230 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,500 there and practice on the beforehand so that that part is 231 00:13:03,500 --> 00:13:06,100 changed. I am very like old-school, kind 232 00:13:06,100 --> 00:13:09,800 of like the Old days where I really liked just going out 233 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:11,700 there and just being like, well I gotta gonna have to figure 234 00:13:11,700 --> 00:13:13,100 this out right now. Yeah. 235 00:13:14,900 --> 00:13:16,300 So you kind of like the uncertainly? 236 00:13:16,300 --> 00:13:21,800 Yeah absolutely and I think that that that led me to want to do. 237 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,500 I always really thrived on the really long stuff than the 238 00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:27,600 really just like the grinding the death by a Thousand Cuts as 239 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,600 I put it. And so I think that just led me 240 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,900 towards wanting to do like more of that they more that. 241 00:13:35,100 --> 00:13:39,200 Yeah I think for some Types of races, almost not knowing what 242 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,400 you're getting yourself into can make you perform better because 243 00:13:42,700 --> 00:13:45,500 you just have to approach it with an open mind and be in the 244 00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:50,200 moment rather than like being to prepared and knowing, okay? 245 00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:55,300 This is coming at, you know, Mi 6.7 this is coming at Mile 10. 246 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,000 If you just go in without knowing and I mean, I'm not 247 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,900 suggesting being a unprepared as good, but helping you just like 248 00:14:02,900 --> 00:14:06,100 stay in the moment and just focus on what you're doing at 249 00:14:06,100 --> 00:14:08,800 that moment. And can definitely help both 250 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,700 with mental and physical race performance. 251 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:13,200 Yeah. And I'm definitely one of those 252 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:14,300 people. I know there are people who like 253 00:14:14,300 --> 00:14:17,700 to go back to the same races over and over again to try and 254 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,200 better their times or do things like that. 255 00:14:20,500 --> 00:14:23,800 I, I do. I like to try one race once and 256 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:29,700 then move on to the next thing. The, the, the exception of that 257 00:14:29,700 --> 00:14:32,000 has been world's toughest matter which I go back to every year, 258 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,800 just because it's kind of, like, where I started everything and 259 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:36,400 it's a 24-hour race in the office. 260 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,600 Eagles change every year. So it is a little bit different. 261 00:14:39,700 --> 00:14:43,600 But for me, if I've run 100 Miler, like I don't really want 262 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,000 to run that same hundred mile or again because it's almost worse 263 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,100 because I know what I'm getting myself into. 264 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,600 I know would have terrible parts of the course are going to be 265 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,400 for instance. Yeah. 266 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,700 So you did the Berkeley Marathon day which I think a lot of you 267 00:14:59,700 --> 00:15:03,500 know, more non Ultra Runners are familiar with because of the 268 00:15:03,500 --> 00:15:06,200 Netflix documentary and the media coverage. 269 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,900 So And the URI your did. It sounds like was one of the 270 00:15:09,900 --> 00:15:13,100 most horrible conditions. Is that right? 271 00:15:13,500 --> 00:15:15,700 I've done yes. Every year is terrible. 272 00:15:15,700 --> 00:15:17,200 Terrible conditions. Yeah. 273 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,700 But yes, it was nobody finished the year that I ran. 274 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,600 Oh so what were, you know, as someone who actually did it, 275 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,100 what was it? Like it was the only race I've 276 00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:30,700 ever gone into where I was actually terrified that I could 277 00:15:30,700 --> 00:15:34,100 die. I mean, because you think about 278 00:15:34,100 --> 00:15:35,500 it? And luckily, last has a perfect. 279 00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:36,900 No one's ever died out. There. 280 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,700 And we call it quote unquote out there because if you're given, 281 00:15:41,700 --> 00:15:46,100 you know, the night before he puts up a big map and you then 282 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,100 Mark your own map based off of that of the location of where 283 00:15:49,100 --> 00:15:52,300 all the 13 books are. And then you're just supposed to 284 00:15:52,300 --> 00:15:55,100 find your way, Wonder around in the woods and find those books 285 00:15:55,700 --> 00:15:59,500 and it's always foggy. It's always raining or snowing 286 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:05,400 or both and I mean, the, the fear of being out there by 287 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,900 yourself, especially if you're Virgin and which what they call 288 00:16:07,900 --> 00:16:11,100 people of, never done it before. I was like, I could be wandering 289 00:16:11,100 --> 00:16:13,800 around here for days and not know. 290 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:15,300 And you have to carry all your own gear. 291 00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:17,900 You carry, there are the aid stations, there are two water 292 00:16:17,900 --> 00:16:20,000 drops out there and half the time. 293 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:24,300 The bottles of water are frozen. So you're kind of like out of 294 00:16:24,300 --> 00:16:29,000 luck so it is it was probably the most terrifying race that I 295 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:34,400 have ever walked into, but there's just something that's so 296 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:39,600 unique and magical about It it because what you think is going 297 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,500 to go wrong is never the thing that goes wrong and everything 298 00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:44,700 goes wrong. I mean, there are times that you 299 00:16:44,700 --> 00:16:46,700 can't see your hand in front of your own face. 300 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,500 And it's just, you're just, I was like, looking down, 301 00:16:49,500 --> 00:16:52,500 following a compass bearing, but then making sure that I don't 302 00:16:52,500 --> 00:16:56,500 fall off a cliff ledge so important. 303 00:16:56,700 --> 00:17:01,000 Yes, so it's amazing. And unfortunately, I have 304 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:06,000 actually gotten back in three more times since I ran, and 305 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,500 every Am I had injured myself before? 306 00:17:08,500 --> 00:17:12,000 I was able to get the start line, so maybe one day I'll be 307 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,500 able to get back out there, but it is it's such a crazy race 308 00:17:15,500 --> 00:17:19,300 that you can't really explain. Unless you've like been out 309 00:17:19,300 --> 00:17:21,099 there though. I think I think the documentary 310 00:17:21,099 --> 00:17:23,800 does ferdi job decent job of it, though. 311 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,000 It makes it look pretty easy because three people finish that 312 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:32,100 year. So so now that you've kind of 313 00:17:32,100 --> 00:17:35,800 switched over to Ultras, do you think that you'll go back there 314 00:17:35,900 --> 00:17:38,600 one day? I would love to I mean it's step 315 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,600 it's definitely kind of like you know, you have to apply. 316 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,500 It's a bit out of my control and I also understand look like last 317 00:17:44,500 --> 00:17:48,400 gave me three more opportunities and I wasn't able to get there 318 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,800 in one piece. So, you know, it would make 319 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:52,600 sense that he would move on to other people. 320 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,400 So I don't, you know, I get that. 321 00:17:55,500 --> 00:17:59,500 So yeah, that is this still always kind of the the the fun 322 00:17:59,500 --> 00:18:03,300 kind of white whale out there. But you know, there are so many 323 00:18:03,300 --> 00:18:07,400 cool races that I love to do. So yeah, so Tell us a little bit 324 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,500 about what made you switch from obstacle. 325 00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:15,800 Racing to Ultras of course, we want to know what she was your 326 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,500 training and right now and which ones are your favorites. 327 00:18:19,100 --> 00:18:21,500 But yeah, why the switch? Yeah, challenge. 328 00:18:21,500 --> 00:18:23,900 Sure. For me I have always thrived off 329 00:18:23,900 --> 00:18:28,100 of the pursuit of Mastery and not that you could ever really 330 00:18:28,100 --> 00:18:31,000 Master anything. But I felt like I had a pretty 331 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:37,000 good run of it with obstacle racing and I to be honest I did 332 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,300 not know Trail racing was a thing before I started. 333 00:18:40,300 --> 00:18:43,000 I was like, wait, you can run up and down mountains and not have 334 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,100 to do obstacles. I didn't know. 335 00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:50,300 I had maybe heard of Leadville or something like that back in, 336 00:18:50,300 --> 00:18:53,600 like 2008. But I had no idea that the 337 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:57,100 ultrarunning world existed, and it's a kind of everything that I 338 00:18:57,100 --> 00:19:00,600 love, which is kind of the long hard sufferfest. 339 00:19:01,700 --> 00:19:03,500 And so, I think I needed a change. 340 00:19:03,500 --> 00:19:05,800 And I also, to be honest, there's a part of me that I know 341 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,000 I ran away. From obstacle racing because I 342 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,900 let pressure get to me, I was super fortunate, I did really 343 00:19:12,900 --> 00:19:16,900 well and I had a lot of media and press and magazine covers 344 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:22,200 and I let it get in my head and I think I for me Ultron you was 345 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:26,400 kind of a break something different, something new. 346 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,800 So yeah and Footwear what do I train in God? 347 00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:36,900 I am such a huge nerd. It's so terrible and I also So 348 00:19:37,300 --> 00:19:42,300 guys, I hate to say that I am an injury prone Runner, but I do 349 00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:46,400 have a long, you know, past with injuries that I always think 350 00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:51,200 that I can fix my injury issues if I find the perfect shoe so 351 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:57,100 that way. So I rotate as much as possible. 352 00:19:57,100 --> 00:20:00,900 I actually I really for road right now. 353 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,000 I actually and speed workouts, I love the Endorphin speed. 354 00:20:05,300 --> 00:20:08,700 It's like I can't do carbon plates, they're too aggressive 355 00:20:08,700 --> 00:20:11,700 for me, but I really like the nylon plate. 356 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,700 I actually ran 100 K an ultra Trail Ultra in them and they 357 00:20:15,700 --> 00:20:19,700 held up great. But yeah, it was on debris or 358 00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:24,200 the to the to the to I have not run in the three I have I have 359 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:28,500 bought up all of the tools that I can find because I really like 360 00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:30,300 them. And I'm afraid that the three 361 00:20:30,300 --> 00:20:33,700 isn't going to be exactly the same and I'm weird like that. 362 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,300 Well, it's very different, is it? 363 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,900 I would think that the two would be more easily used on trails 364 00:20:40,900 --> 00:20:42,800 that are yeah. Okay. 365 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,500 Yeah, because it held up well. I mean they were California 366 00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:49,900 Trails so they're not super Rocky but didn't have an issue. 367 00:20:49,900 --> 00:20:53,300 I was a little bit worried. They were dry but felt great. 368 00:20:53,300 --> 00:20:56,900 So, my quads are a bit thrashed by the end but, man, I could 369 00:20:56,900 --> 00:20:58,700 have just spent the race that, right? 370 00:20:58,700 --> 00:21:03,000 Yeah. And then on Trails, I actually 371 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:07,500 am the one weirdo who I really was Supportive has worked really 372 00:21:07,500 --> 00:21:11,100 well for me. I've super narrow feet and the 373 00:21:11,100 --> 00:21:17,200 caracal is something that I run in a bunch and then I always end 374 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,500 up by the end of hundred milers. I always end up in speed goats 375 00:21:20,500 --> 00:21:24,300 because they're, the only thing that after, like 80 miles my 376 00:21:24,300 --> 00:21:29,700 feet, don't hate me in, but I tried a not trained in Ho cos 45 377 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,500 just they've caused some hip stuff for me. 378 00:21:33,500 --> 00:21:39,400 So I'm gonna make him But yeah. So you know, I never thought 379 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,500 about like in the middle of an ultra, the fact that like 380 00:21:43,500 --> 00:21:48,100 changing your shoes at Mile, 80 could be useful in. 381 00:21:48,100 --> 00:21:50,700 It's just helping you feel a little more refreshed or just 382 00:21:50,700 --> 00:21:55,000 changing where the stresses and where you're taking a little bit 383 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,400 of stress off. So what like when you do an 384 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,400 ultra, what do you typically start out in and then switch to, 385 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,300 it's always the LA sportiva to the ho cos or generally. 386 00:22:06,500 --> 00:22:10,400 That's what it's been and I have done some in like Nike Wild 387 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,300 Horse but the wild horse has changed so much over the years 388 00:22:13,300 --> 00:22:18,700 that it's like it's Hit or Miss for me on versions like or I 389 00:22:18,700 --> 00:22:21,100 mean there are there are Ultras where you can get away with the 390 00:22:21,100 --> 00:22:24,400 red shoes like I like the Endorphin speeds that I wore. 391 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,100 I had a pair of Hocus and a drop bag in case I need to switch him 392 00:22:28,100 --> 00:22:30,000 out at like mile 50 but I was fine. 393 00:22:31,300 --> 00:22:34,900 So I think you talk to most Ultra Runners and I think for 394 00:22:34,900 --> 00:22:38,500 like 100 K or 100 miles Sure. They're gonna have at least one 395 00:22:38,700 --> 00:22:43,100 possibly, two backup shoes, just to change change the stress. 396 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:44,300 Yeah. B. 397 00:22:44,300 --> 00:22:46,900 And it just you feel like a new person for sure. 398 00:22:47,300 --> 00:22:50,400 Oh, I bet have you run in the Saucony? 399 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:55,400 Endorphin Edge? I have I I I got a pair and I 400 00:22:55,408 --> 00:22:58,100 was like this is going to be my shoe because I thought it would 401 00:22:58,100 --> 00:23:03,000 be kind of like the speed except not but every time it caused I 402 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,500 like my left, piriformis would seize up Those shoes and I could 403 00:23:07,500 --> 00:23:10,700 not figure it out every and it was like two miles in and every 404 00:23:10,700 --> 00:23:13,100 single time and I was like I don't maybe I just can't do 405 00:23:13,100 --> 00:23:15,500 carbon plates. I don't know because the same 406 00:23:15,500 --> 00:23:21,300 thing happened to me with the Hoka the what's their carbon 407 00:23:21,300 --> 00:23:25,400 Trail shoe? Not the mock the They have a 408 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,800 carbon played a trail shoe that I tried to and have the same 409 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,300 issue with. So I don't know if that's just 410 00:23:30,300 --> 00:23:33,700 carbons too aggressive for me. I don't, I don't know, but just 411 00:23:33,700 --> 00:23:36,600 with my stride India, of course, depending on the plate and the 412 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:41,800 geometry of this year, but those super shoes do you tend to push 413 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,500 people faster into hip extension? 414 00:23:44,500 --> 00:23:47,800 Like it kind of pushes you into push off faster and that can 415 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,100 cause glute issues in people who have some weakness there. 416 00:23:51,500 --> 00:23:54,500 So it may just be that the carbon played and shoots you've 417 00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:57,300 tried. Ride or too aggressive for your 418 00:23:57,300 --> 00:24:01,700 biomechanics but not even within like the category of carbon 419 00:24:01,700 --> 00:24:05,400 plated Super Shoes. Some have like a less aggressive 420 00:24:05,500 --> 00:24:07,300 rocker than others. Yeah. 421 00:24:08,300 --> 00:24:10,400 Have you ever tried the Puma deviate? 422 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,800 Nitro to I have it. I did there's someone Pumas like 423 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,800 the one brand I've never run in but now like I hear great things 424 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,800 about it. So my just like a things I would 425 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,700 actually say it's like a less aggressive speed too. 426 00:24:25,700 --> 00:24:28,700 Okay, that's good to know. I may have to especially when I 427 00:24:28,708 --> 00:24:35,300 run out of my stockpile of speed to I mean I can't be the only 428 00:24:35,300 --> 00:24:38,500 person that does that. You find a shoe that like works 429 00:24:38,500 --> 00:24:41,900 so well for you and you just like, you know what, I'm going 430 00:24:41,900 --> 00:24:44,600 to buy because I know they're going to change it in the next 431 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:50,000 iteration and it's gonna suck so sure some of your listeners can 432 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:51,600 understand that. Oh, yes. 433 00:24:51,700 --> 00:24:55,500 I am personally obsessed with the New Balance Beacon, And I've 434 00:24:55,500 --> 00:25:01,800 bought way way too many pairs of the beacon, that and continue my 435 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,100 campaign to get New Balance, to resurrect it. 436 00:25:05,100 --> 00:25:07,900 But no, I get it. I mean, you find something you 437 00:25:07,900 --> 00:25:10,200 like and I think for me to the thing that I've always 438 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,600 geeked-out was like I had to kill use issues for a while. 439 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,700 So I was actually looking at your website trying to figure 440 00:25:14,700 --> 00:25:18,600 out shoes like that didn't have stiff, heel counters and things 441 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,100 like that. And like going through all of 442 00:25:20,100 --> 00:25:25,700 that and I also know on my right foot, I have how it Limit s and 443 00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:28,300 so I have a my right big toe does not move. 444 00:25:28,300 --> 00:25:31,800 So I was trying to find types of shoes that work for that and do 445 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,900 it I'm like oh my God there's the worst just experimenting 446 00:25:34,900 --> 00:25:38,100 with everything but then it's like but my left foots fine 447 00:25:38,100 --> 00:25:40,200 doesn't need that. As I put my right foot is like 448 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:45,400 having a day or so. Yeah, well, we're always happy 449 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:46,900 to advise you on. Cheers. 450 00:25:46,900 --> 00:25:51,400 If you need some advice and nobody's gotten things that I 451 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,700 didn't like think about before I never thought that like 452 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,400 something could be better for a different kind of foot. 453 00:25:57,500 --> 00:26:00,000 I mean, I and I hate to say that I was sponsored by Ultra for a 454 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,700 while which was in hindsight, a terrible, terrible decision on 455 00:26:03,700 --> 00:26:08,800 my part because just the how my foot is, but I didn't think I 456 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,500 ran in them for like a month. I was like, I feel fine, but 457 00:26:11,500 --> 00:26:15,900 then like it takes A longer than that for issues to start really, 458 00:26:15,900 --> 00:26:18,800 right? And, you know, I'm like, oh 459 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,400 things that I wish I could have known back in the day. 460 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,900 Yes. Isn't that funny that like you 461 00:26:25,900 --> 00:26:28,200 and I are at the same age and I agree. 462 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,500 I was a professional cyclist and at my age. 463 00:26:30,500 --> 00:26:34,800 Now, I look back at when I was Raising full-time, you know, 15 464 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:39,200 years ago and it's like, if only I had the wisdom that I have now 465 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,800 with, like the time and, you know, Fitness that I had back 466 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,500 then but that's not how it works, right? 467 00:26:46,500 --> 00:26:50,200 Like there's a reason that there are so many sayings about like 468 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:55,800 wisdom and age and so I guess all we can do is take the wisdom 469 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,400 that we've gained in like use that to become better athletes 470 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,400 moving forward. But yeah, it's like oh there's 471 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,400 so many things. I would tell my 23-year old self 472 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,100 also be super grateful that you can like run it. 473 00:27:10,100 --> 00:27:13,100 I remember I also grabbed for Reebok for a While and they made 474 00:27:13,100 --> 00:27:16,000 an obstacle racing shoe. That was basically a racing flat 475 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,900 on lugs. And I remember running like 50 476 00:27:18,900 --> 00:27:23,300 miles on those and like my feet. Now, think I think I was 29 at 477 00:27:23,300 --> 00:27:25,400 the time and it's a decade later. 478 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,800 I'm like, I could never do that, but I'm like, I was fine at the 479 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,400 time. Like it was like, it wasn't 480 00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:34,400 didn't break my feet in 10 places so be grateful for your 481 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,700 youth. Yeah. 482 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,800 So I would love for you to share with us, just how your balance 483 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,900 out a very serious full-time job and training. 484 00:27:47,900 --> 00:27:50,100 So like, how many miles a week do you train? 485 00:27:50,100 --> 00:27:53,300 How do you fit in with a lot of work? 486 00:27:53,300 --> 00:27:57,300 You're as a lawyer because I'm sure that the way that you 487 00:27:57,300 --> 00:27:59,900 figured it out, could help some of our listeners figure out how 488 00:27:59,900 --> 00:28:03,300 to better balance out their work and training lives. 489 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,700 Yeah, so I, I will put this in are quote, I am a quote, 490 00:28:07,700 --> 00:28:12,600 unquote, low Ledge runner for compared to most professional 491 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,600 runners and I not like professional Runner but like I 492 00:28:16,608 --> 00:28:20,700 have competed at a high level so I am probably about 55 to 60 493 00:28:20,700 --> 00:28:25,600 miles a week like 80% on trails with a fair amount of vert. 494 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:30,100 So it does take longer and I run five days a week across train 495 00:28:30,100 --> 00:28:36,200 one day and then I have a rest day and so you know, for me I 496 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,200 have always been a morning person and so So, Tim like, that 497 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,000 is when my training gets it and I wake up anywhere between like 498 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,800 4:30 and 5:00 a.m. and then I'm out the door. 499 00:28:47,300 --> 00:28:51,500 I also fully realize I am, I have the luxury of not having 500 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,400 children and so that gives me extra time. 501 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:01,400 I hats off to anyone who is able to juggle career Sports and kids 502 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:05,600 because I've only found I can do to, I've never tried the third 503 00:29:06,300 --> 00:29:11,000 but yeah so it's pretty much a Need early in the mornings and 504 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,300 then I try to do twice a week. I have like a strength session 505 00:29:14,300 --> 00:29:19,400 that I'll do in the evenings. That's like if I can get to it, 506 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:24,500 then I can. But yeah I mean and weekends are 507 00:29:24,500 --> 00:29:30,600 really the long runs and where I pile on a lot of the mileage and 508 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,900 so it's I, you know, I'd have to be flexible sometimes. 509 00:29:33,900 --> 00:29:38,500 But I always find that if you, if something is really important 510 00:29:38,500 --> 00:29:40,900 Important to you and you prioritize it, you generally 511 00:29:40,900 --> 00:29:43,700 find a way to get it done. Absolutely. 512 00:29:43,700 --> 00:29:48,100 So yeah because we're really good these days at wasting time, 513 00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:52,200 while we rolling on our phones or watching Netflix and like I 514 00:29:52,208 --> 00:29:55,800 tell my patients lot, like look, you need to do the strength 515 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,000 training but it doesn't have to take up, you know, two hours 516 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:03,400 every week, right? Do 15 minutes twice a week and I 517 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,300 think everyone can find 15 minutes and their schedule a 518 00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:09,300 couple days a week. But or I'm So the weirdo that 519 00:30:09,300 --> 00:30:12,500 does, like, my physical therapy exercise sometimes while I work 520 00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:15,900 because it's easy enough, if I have like, our resistance band 521 00:30:15,900 --> 00:30:19,300 and I'm sitting on a conference call, like it's easy enough to 522 00:30:19,300 --> 00:30:22,500 be just like walking across my office doing Monster walks. 523 00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:29,800 So also the queen of multitasking, sometimes harder 524 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,600 to do with some jobs, I do realize I have a pretty flexible 525 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,900 job in terms of just like I'm sitting behind a desk about yes, 526 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:39,900 why is a meal? Leah breathing, so hard on this 527 00:30:39,900 --> 00:30:41,600 conference. Call one. 528 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:46,500 Also, like my co-workers know that I have like multiple 529 00:30:46,500 --> 00:30:49,700 Mobility tools and my office. So if somebody needs a foam 530 00:30:49,700 --> 00:30:53,100 roller and it's like how many grab it. 531 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,500 I am a big advocate of people having foam rollers in their 532 00:30:57,500 --> 00:30:59,500 office. Yeah, yes. 533 00:30:59,500 --> 00:31:02,200 See why not? Are they all know they're like 534 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,800 they have an injury problem. They're like can you dial is 535 00:31:04,900 --> 00:31:07,500 like and can you help me with this? 536 00:31:07,700 --> 00:31:11,000 You've probably heard Is bone before this muscle before. 537 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,800 I'm like, oh yeah, actually I can tell you all about your 538 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:19,500 operator internist. So you're also like the backup 539 00:31:19,900 --> 00:31:21,800 PTA, you're off. I yes. 540 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,100 Yes, absolutely. And among all my running 541 00:31:24,100 --> 00:31:26,900 friends, it's kind of funny. I always say, I do wish there's 542 00:31:26,900 --> 00:31:28,400 this part of me. I've always wanted to go back to 543 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,800 school for physical therapy, but I'm like 40 it. 544 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,100 So it's a little bit, but I like to think I'm an honorary 545 00:31:35,100 --> 00:31:39,300 physical therapist, given how many body parts of it, you know, 546 00:31:39,300 --> 00:31:43,500 it's never too late and there is quite a need for the combination 547 00:31:43,500 --> 00:31:47,900 of a lawyer and a PT. So, There we go, for know, you 548 00:31:47,900 --> 00:31:52,300 never know. So speaking of injuries you've 549 00:31:52,300 --> 00:31:55,700 been really open in the press and on podcast, discussing 550 00:31:55,900 --> 00:31:58,800 discussing some of the injuries that you've been through and I 551 00:31:58,808 --> 00:32:02,700 think that that's really helpful for people because I think as a 552 00:32:02,708 --> 00:32:06,900 runner is for some reason in particular we don't like to talk 553 00:32:06,900 --> 00:32:09,500 about our injuries like if something's hurting we kind of 554 00:32:09,500 --> 00:32:14,000 hide it and like limp along and it's only when like we can't 555 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,000 walk that. We finally tell our friend. 556 00:32:16,500 --> 00:32:19,000 Oh yeah, I've been dealing with this for five months. 557 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,900 So can you tell us a little bit about the injuries that you've 558 00:32:22,900 --> 00:32:28,100 dealt with and just maybe some tips for our listeners and like 559 00:32:28,100 --> 00:32:31,000 what you've learned that has helped you get through that 560 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:36,200 process? Yeah, I think injuries, shame is 561 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,800 so real and I can talk about this forever because and it is 562 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,400 an issue with Runners because all of our issues are mainly 563 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,400 overuse issues and we feel like they should be able to Be 564 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,800 preventable. And that we feel that if we had 565 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,300 done the right things we wouldn't be in this position but 566 00:32:53,300 --> 00:32:58,500 also, they're ubiquitous to like every Runner we all get injured, 567 00:32:58,500 --> 00:33:00,600 it's not what it's not, if it's when. 568 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,400 And so I think for me, like, so I started my first major 569 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,000 injuries. I ended up with a femoral stress 570 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,200 fracture. I was training for western 571 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,300 states and it was devastating to me and I threw my hands up in 572 00:33:11,300 --> 00:33:13,400 the air, and I had no idea what happened. 573 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,800 Blah blah blah blah blah. And then that started off an 574 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,100 injury cycle for me, and which I came back too quickly from the 575 00:33:21,100 --> 00:33:24,000 femoral stress, fracture ended up with sacral stress fracture. 576 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:29,600 And then, over the next four, three years ended up with a 577 00:33:29,608 --> 00:33:33,300 total of six stress fractures, so, which we can table and come 578 00:33:33,300 --> 00:33:35,000 back to. And I mean, the whole reason 579 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:39,200 between that is behind that is that I was in total denial that 580 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,000 an eating disorder that I had been dealing with. 581 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:45,200 Since I was 16 years old, had come back in full force and all 582 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,900 of these things were Just from under fueling, I mean I don't 583 00:33:47,900 --> 00:33:52,300 know but like I can tell you under fueling was probably the 584 00:33:52,300 --> 00:33:56,800 reason I was breaking bones every six months but I think you 585 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,700 know it was it was a terrible time for me. 586 00:33:58,700 --> 00:34:01,600 I was kind of at the top of my Sport and obstacle racing and 587 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,200 everyone will come up to me low injured again again and you get 588 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:10,800 this identity of that injured girl and it was the way that I 589 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,300 dealt with through. As I wrote, I started writing 590 00:34:13,300 --> 00:34:17,699 and I still have all of the Pieces that I wrote like in the 591 00:34:17,699 --> 00:34:21,000 process of going through this of what it feels like of that loss 592 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,500 of identity and just the shame that comes with being an injured 593 00:34:25,500 --> 00:34:29,699 athlete. And so, I think over the time, 594 00:34:29,699 --> 00:34:32,600 when I've learned in these past, however, many years is that I 595 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:36,300 had no reason to be so ashamed. It's just a natural part of 596 00:34:36,300 --> 00:34:40,100 being an athlete. Granted, that many injuries that 597 00:34:40,100 --> 00:34:42,699 quickly? Yes, there is an indication 598 00:34:42,699 --> 00:34:46,000 other something wrong, but it happens to all of us. 599 00:34:46,100 --> 00:34:50,100 You know, II had like a something going on with my hip 600 00:34:50,100 --> 00:34:52,500 last year soft-tissue eyes that we never really figured out what 601 00:34:52,500 --> 00:34:54,600 it was. It took me out of running for 602 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,400 six weeks, but it's like that stuff happens. 603 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,300 You know, it's like we have to work through it and we have to 604 00:35:00,300 --> 00:35:05,000 constantly be understanding that it is like this push in this 605 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:09,500 poll and so I don't know. I just try and take away the 606 00:35:09,500 --> 00:35:13,100 whole shame around it and just say, hey there's no harm in 607 00:35:13,108 --> 00:35:16,000 taking a few days off to, then prevent something that is going 608 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,600 to Be three weeks off or three months off you know. 609 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,900 Like so just trying to be smart and I think probably the worst 610 00:35:23,900 --> 00:35:28,100 part of injury for athletes also is coming back from it and then 611 00:35:28,100 --> 00:35:33,100 being hyper aware of everything that like oh God did I just send 612 00:35:33,100 --> 00:35:35,700 myself back? Is this happening to me again? 613 00:35:35,700 --> 00:35:38,800 And I still deal with that. You know, I still there are 614 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:44,500 certain areas of my body that will like if I feel something in 615 00:35:44,500 --> 00:35:47,000 like my right hip I'm like Shoot. 616 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,500 But my left hip. I'll be like, man, whatever it's 617 00:35:49,500 --> 00:35:50,800 fine. I've never been injured there 618 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,200 before, so she's just dealing with that kind of stuff. 619 00:35:54,900 --> 00:35:56,400 I guess. One question I have, I know you 620 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,800 mentioned that you've had a lot of like, you've had your fair 621 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,000 share of injuries in the past. What's the longest amount of 622 00:36:03,008 --> 00:36:04,900 time you were out of running for ya? 623 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:10,000 Um, so my femoral stress fracture. 624 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,700 I think I was out for four months and then I was running 625 00:36:12,700 --> 00:36:15,300 again for three weeks before I broke my sacrum. 626 00:36:15,300 --> 00:36:19,600 So If you don't count those three weeks then with I think it 627 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,000 was probably about a good eight. Nine months that I was out, 628 00:36:24,100 --> 00:36:29,300 which was a very, very long time and I became a pretty good 629 00:36:29,300 --> 00:36:34,500 swimmer and that time. But and I think at some point 630 00:36:34,500 --> 00:36:37,400 you just kind of I always tell people that the worst part of 631 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:42,000 injury is probably the first week or two where you almost go 632 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:46,400 through these withdrawal symptoms of like you see See 633 00:36:46,408 --> 00:36:48,700 people running down the street, and you want to throw things at 634 00:36:48,700 --> 00:36:51,300 them. But like, once you get over that 635 00:36:51,300 --> 00:36:55,000 hump, then you're just like, okay, like I kind of treat 636 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:59,300 physical therapy, and Rehab. Then as my full-time job. 637 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:04,600 And as this in a weird way, this like fun way to fix something 638 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,900 and to make me better. I also take every injury. 639 00:37:06,900 --> 00:37:08,500 Period. I was like oh well I'm gonna 640 00:37:08,500 --> 00:37:12,700 like be very. I'm going to fix all of my 641 00:37:12,700 --> 00:37:15,300 weaknesses during this time never help and never works. 642 00:37:15,300 --> 00:37:22,000 But Having that mindset can really help make the difference 643 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,600 in like, just how you feel about that time period. 644 00:37:25,700 --> 00:37:29,900 If it's so easy, when you're hurt to probably get to prove 645 00:37:29,900 --> 00:37:31,300 this? Yeah, whatever. 646 00:37:31,500 --> 00:37:34,500 You know. It's gonna it's gonna be 647 00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:38,700 happening. So, Yeah, I think with every any 648 00:37:38,700 --> 00:37:43,400 injury you like rehab come back from it builds a little bit more 649 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,300 mental strength. Yeah, absolutely. 650 00:37:45,300 --> 00:37:47,700 Just something important for and the Ultras. 651 00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:50,300 And you also just understand your body more like and I 652 00:37:50,300 --> 00:37:54,500 understand now and maybe I understand too much about how 653 00:37:54,800 --> 00:38:01,300 something in my bag toe affects my hip or it's you know. 654 00:38:01,300 --> 00:38:05,800 So it's like I'm like okay now I know too much of how this is all 655 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,600 working. And if I have my list of my 656 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,600 physical therapy exercises for like, every single body part 657 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,300 that needs it, I would probably be doing them for 24 hours a 658 00:38:14,308 --> 00:38:18,300 day. So it is good to have an 659 00:38:18,308 --> 00:38:21,300 understanding of just how everything is connected because 660 00:38:21,300 --> 00:38:25,600 I think that can help you like not ignore like a little twinge 661 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,800 that your might get like. Okay, this has been hurting for 662 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,400 a week. Maybe I should, you know, look 663 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,600 into this run. There is a fine line between 664 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,900 like paying too much attention. Shouldn't every little twinge 665 00:38:37,900 --> 00:38:41,700 your get and not paying enough attention for sure. 666 00:38:41,900 --> 00:38:43,900 Yeah, absolutely. And you also have to know and 667 00:38:43,900 --> 00:38:46,200 I'm sure you have to you know this like as physical therapist 668 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,500 of where your patient kind of leans on that scale and I 669 00:38:49,508 --> 00:38:52,600 remember one of my physical therapist at Stanford it was 670 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,800 like I'm going to kick you in the shin before every run. 671 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,900 So something else hurts. So you can focus on that and not 672 00:38:58,900 --> 00:39:01,400 every single step of what could go wrong. 673 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,900 Yeah. So you know, that's not 674 00:39:04,900 --> 00:39:06,600 something that they teach me, Teach Me. 675 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:13,300 The Kate for it because I'm always like, oh, something else 676 00:39:13,300 --> 00:39:18,100 hurts that I can focus on this and not the other thing I 677 00:39:18,100 --> 00:39:21,700 actually do, sometimes use that like if I'm in the middle of a 678 00:39:21,708 --> 00:39:24,800 race or a training session like something's bothering me. 679 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,200 I'm testing a shoe and maybe it's making like, you know, my 680 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,300 big toe hurt. I'll start all like look for 681 00:39:31,300 --> 00:39:34,800 anything else on my body that is uncomfortable so I can pay 682 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,800 attention to the Head. Totally or if it's like my 683 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,900 stomach hurts or something about having GI issues, I'm like, well 684 00:39:40,900 --> 00:39:43,300 lose, I'm not focused on my left Achilles right now. 685 00:39:43,300 --> 00:39:48,500 Is that, exactly, you know, Amelia you said earlier about 686 00:39:48,500 --> 00:39:51,600 how being injured can affect your identity, and I think 687 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,500 that's such an important conversation to have because 688 00:39:55,100 --> 00:40:00,000 it's so common, even for non professional athletes to really 689 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:05,000 have their sport become part of their identity, and to a degree, 690 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,300 there's nothing wrong with that. But when it gets to the point 691 00:40:08,300 --> 00:40:13,300 where if you can't do your sport, now you've lost a major 692 00:40:13,300 --> 00:40:15,700 part of yourself. Well, what do you replace that 693 00:40:15,700 --> 00:40:19,000 with? And I think it's, it's important 694 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,600 for every Runner no matter if you're running a hundred miles a 695 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:28,000 week or 10 miles a week to also develop the other parts of your 696 00:40:28,100 --> 00:40:32,600 life that aren't related to your sport because one it's just good 697 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,600 to be a well-rounded person but to it it helps you deal with. 698 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,500 Those times where you might not be able to run because you're 699 00:40:39,500 --> 00:40:43,300 hurt or you're sick or life has gotten in the way. 700 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,900 I gosh almost actually it was 10 years ago. 701 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:54,600 I had a bad crash biking and hurt my neck and I couldn't ride 702 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:59,400 for almost a year and I mean that was like devastating to me 703 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,800 because cycling had truly become most of my identity. 704 00:41:04,100 --> 00:41:07,700 And I was really lucky to have a teammate who Who happens to be a 705 00:41:07,700 --> 00:41:11,200 sports psychologist who were very lucky. 706 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:15,600 Yeah. And she really helped me see. 707 00:41:16,700 --> 00:41:20,000 Kind of the problem that that was, that cycling was so much of 708 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:24,100 my identity and how to kind of adjust my way of thinking. 709 00:41:24,100 --> 00:41:27,900 So that one I wasn't so depressed because I couldn't 710 00:41:27,900 --> 00:41:32,700 ride, but to just to become a healthier person from a mental 711 00:41:32,700 --> 00:41:37,500 perspective. So I think When you were dealing 712 00:41:37,500 --> 00:41:40,600 with your injuries, was there anything in particular that kind 713 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:45,000 of helped you refocus so that you didn't feel that loss of 714 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:49,000 identity so greatly. Yeah you know and I think it 715 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,600 changes with each kind of with each person and each time in 716 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:57,800 life I definitely there's certain way I advocate picking 717 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,900 up a new sport before me. All I could do was swim for a 718 00:42:00,900 --> 00:42:03,200 long time and so I was like okay well and I'm just trying to 719 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,000 figure out how this how I do this. 720 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,600 Yeah. And also If you hate something 721 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:12,300 don't force yourself to do it at the same time and I've also 722 00:42:12,300 --> 00:42:15,100 found now, I've gotten into mountain biking and some other 723 00:42:15,100 --> 00:42:19,800 things and just to have a different Outlet is helpful at 724 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,300 the same time, like I said don't force yourself. 725 00:42:22,300 --> 00:42:25,800 I don't think that finding a substitute sport is always the 726 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:30,700 answer but also just having a way to get outside that you can 727 00:42:30,700 --> 00:42:32,000 do. That's not aggravating your 728 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:37,900 injury, is an amazing thing. And I think that Initially when 729 00:42:37,900 --> 00:42:40,800 I get injured, I want to shut out the running world. 730 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,300 Like I don't want to see races, I don't want to see people 731 00:42:43,300 --> 00:42:46,800 running and I don't want to see anything like that and I 732 00:42:46,808 --> 00:42:50,700 realized that kind of works for the short term, but it what I 733 00:42:50,700 --> 00:42:53,200 love about running so much is the community. 734 00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,100 And what I love about Ultras is the community and being a part 735 00:42:56,100 --> 00:42:59,400 of that. And so actually, for me being 736 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,700 able to volunteer at races, being able to crew for other 737 00:43:01,700 --> 00:43:06,300 people at races, when I'm injured is super helpful. 738 00:43:06,700 --> 00:43:10,900 For me to help stay connected and to understand, you know, 739 00:43:10,900 --> 00:43:14,000 it's like I crude for a friend who was running hard rock, you 740 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,900 know, big hundred mile or and I was coming off a calcaneal 741 00:43:16,900 --> 00:43:20,100 stress fracture, so kind of do anything, but I was driving 742 00:43:20,100 --> 00:43:24,000 around all they'd stations helping out, and it just made me 743 00:43:24,100 --> 00:43:27,000 connect there. And I think that that is an 744 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:28,900 outlet. That if you can do that, some 745 00:43:28,900 --> 00:43:31,700 people get really pissy and don't even want to be around it. 746 00:43:31,700 --> 00:43:33,000 Want to pretend nothing's going on. 747 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,000 Which can work, but I found the opposite is better for me. 748 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,400 Yeah, there is something about being able to help others that 749 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:46,400 is very meaningful, right? And when, even though you can't 750 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,700 participate, it still keeps you around the sport that you love 751 00:43:49,700 --> 00:43:54,000 and you're able to help your friends and that that in a way 752 00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:58,100 can fill up the hole and then even more because you're able to 753 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,500 help others and their Pursuit. Yeah absolutely. 754 00:44:01,500 --> 00:44:05,400 And I love I love that. That Community aspect. 755 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,000 And so, I mean, it's like I love pacing at Ultras. 756 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:09,300 I mean, clearly you're injured, you can't. 757 00:44:09,300 --> 00:44:11,700 But I'm like, I'll be a professional Pacer. 758 00:44:12,100 --> 00:44:14,700 Just anyone, you know, like I love this type of stuff. 759 00:44:14,700 --> 00:44:16,700 It's so much fun to me. I love it more than racing them 760 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:22,800 but yeah. So can we talk a little bit? 761 00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,100 You mentioned earlier that you feel I can I agree. 762 00:44:26,100 --> 00:44:30,800 It's was probably a major factor your recovery from an eating 763 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:34,100 disorder. I think you said that At your 764 00:44:34,100 --> 00:44:35,500 stress. Fractures were kind of the 765 00:44:35,500 --> 00:44:38,400 Catalyst that kind of finally made you get help. 766 00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:42,100 So again, Eating Disorders are so common in the running 767 00:44:42,100 --> 00:44:46,500 community and are even less talked about than injuries. 768 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:50,800 So could you tell our listeners a little bit about just your 769 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,300 recovery process? How you got help? 770 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:58,700 What you do now to kind of help you stay on track and any advice 771 00:44:58,700 --> 00:45:01,400 that you would have for people who are maybe struggling and 772 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:07,500 haven't asked for help yet? Yeah, I think, you know, my, my 773 00:45:07,500 --> 00:45:10,500 story is a very, very long one, so I'll spare all the details 774 00:45:10,500 --> 00:45:14,800 but I think. So I was diagnosed with an 775 00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,100 eating disorder when I was 16. I was hospitalized and I was 776 00:45:18,100 --> 00:45:22,200 told no activity, no Sports. Nothing and so this is the story 777 00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,600 that I don't tell people. I didn't run, I didn't do Sports 778 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:26,700 in college or anything like that because I wasn't allowed to. 779 00:45:26,700 --> 00:45:32,700 I was too sick and at that time it was very much a, you know, if 780 00:45:32,700 --> 00:45:34,700 you have an eating disorder Order, you're not allowed to be 781 00:45:34,700 --> 00:45:38,400 an athlete because they would see running or anything like 782 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:42,400 that as a form of purging as a form of your disorder. 783 00:45:43,300 --> 00:45:47,200 And I ended up going in and out of treatment for a few for many 784 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,600 years, until my mid-twenties, and which I felt I was kind of 785 00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:52,500 in like a good place a firm place. 786 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,000 And at that point, I remember, that's when I started getting 787 00:45:56,000 --> 00:46:00,300 the itch to be active, to do that, obstacle race. 788 00:46:00,900 --> 00:46:05,700 And in my mind thinking, I don't All like is this healthy for me 789 00:46:05,700 --> 00:46:08,600 to do? But I went my dad and I did it 790 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,700 and actually was it was in some ways I think it was the best 791 00:46:11,700 --> 00:46:15,900 thing for me because I saw my body as an athlete and like 792 00:46:15,900 --> 00:46:21,100 something I needed to feed and take care of to perform several 793 00:46:21,100 --> 00:46:25,500 years down the line that message somehow got lost and I found 794 00:46:25,500 --> 00:46:29,400 myself slipping back into things which, you know, and I don't 795 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,300 know what that was from pressure or from feeling like it's seen 796 00:46:32,300 --> 00:46:34,100 my body on magazine. Covers. 797 00:46:34,100 --> 00:46:36,100 I don't know, but a bunch of things. 798 00:46:36,100 --> 00:46:40,400 And so I came to this point after what six stress fractures 799 00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,000 in three years that I was like, okay something is wrong. 800 00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:48,100 Like and I can't, I can't, I can't even get to start line 801 00:46:48,100 --> 00:46:51,400 anymore and so I may quote unquote look like an athlete but 802 00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,300 I'm too injured to even be out there. 803 00:46:53,700 --> 00:46:56,900 And so it was this kind of moment that this isn't normal. 804 00:46:57,300 --> 00:47:00,600 And if I want to continue doing the things that I love to do, 805 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:06,000 like I need help. And I Specifically wanted to 806 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:10,400 understand. Could I be an eating disorder 807 00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:15,100 recovery and be an athlete? And can I separate running from 808 00:47:15,100 --> 00:47:17,900 the disorder or is Running part of my disorder? 809 00:47:17,900 --> 00:47:21,000 And I was so scared. I think from my experience, as 810 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:25,500 20 years prior where I was told, no movement, no running nothing 811 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,300 that I didn't know if it was possible. 812 00:47:28,300 --> 00:47:33,100 And to my surprise, the model and treatment has changed over 813 00:47:33,100 --> 00:47:33,800 the years. Earth. 814 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,300 And now a lot of facilities will work with athletes. 815 00:47:37,300 --> 00:47:41,600 A lot of therapists will work with athletes and which was 816 00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:43,900 phenomenal. For me, I went to a place called 817 00:47:43,900 --> 00:47:47,800 opal food and body and Seattle and it's one of the co-founders 818 00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:51,100 was a D1 runner at University of Washington and she gets it. 819 00:47:51,500 --> 00:47:55,000 And so the idea now is to no longer take the sport from you 820 00:47:55,000 --> 00:48:01,100 but can you can you feed yourself appropriately and you 821 00:48:01,100 --> 00:48:03,600 know, and separate the sport from here disorder. 822 00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,800 And so, I think for me, it was like that entire period of going 823 00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,800 back into treatment was about that exploration and how do I do 824 00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:13,700 this? And how do I do this in a way 825 00:48:13,700 --> 00:48:18,100 that is sustainable for my body and that's going to look 826 00:48:18,100 --> 00:48:20,900 different for every person because for instance, I was in 827 00:48:20,900 --> 00:48:28,000 treatment with people who like their sport was their disorder, 828 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,500 they hated their Spore, they hated doing it but like they 829 00:48:30,500 --> 00:48:34,100 felt compelled to do it. Whereas for me I was like No nor 830 00:48:34,100 --> 00:48:38,200 know like I would run even if they told me running made me 831 00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:41,700 gain weight, I would still rotten and so I think that like 832 00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,800 but there are other types of movement that I will not do like 833 00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,200 I don't like sitting on a spin bike in a gym. 834 00:48:48,300 --> 00:48:50,800 I hate it feels disorder to me, the only reason I would do it 835 00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,600 would be to burn calories and so it, so that kind of that 836 00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:55,900 exploration and learning how to do that. 837 00:48:55,900 --> 00:48:58,900 And so when I talk to people now because I think one of the most 838 00:48:58,900 --> 00:49:02,700 common question that I get is, is how do you tell, how do you 839 00:49:02,700 --> 00:49:07,200 know What you're doing is is from a place of disorder from a 840 00:49:07,208 --> 00:49:09,600 place of health and I think it's constantly questioning your 841 00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:12,800 motives and your intentions. And how do you feel when you 842 00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:17,800 can't run and are you restricting when you can't run, 843 00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:23,000 are you using other behaviors? And it just being brutally 844 00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,100 honest with yourself because it's so easy to, you know, 845 00:49:26,100 --> 00:49:30,600 delude yourself into thinking, that it's not on fine. 846 00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:33,500 I'll, uh, so, it's just a constant. 847 00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:35,700 Examination and it changes every day. 848 00:49:35,700 --> 00:49:41,000 Sometimes so do you like you were in treatment a few years 849 00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:44,500 ago, right? Do you still if you're willing 850 00:49:44,500 --> 00:49:47,600 to talk about this like do you still talk to a therapist as 851 00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:49,900 your coach keep you on track Like Water. 852 00:49:50,300 --> 00:49:53,500 How do you have others help you? Stay accountable. 853 00:49:54,100 --> 00:49:57,700 Yeah, I still see a therapist. I'm not as often as I used to 854 00:49:57,700 --> 00:50:01,100 but yeah so I still see a therapist and check in with her 855 00:50:01,100 --> 00:50:04,800 and then I am super fortunate. Coach was actually one of the 856 00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:08,800 first people that I ever told that I was struggling and he was 857 00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,900 my biggest fan of going back into treatment. 858 00:50:11,900 --> 00:50:15,700 One of the few people that knew where I was for three months and 859 00:50:15,700 --> 00:50:19,200 so that is always a checkpoint for me. 860 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:23,000 And I have like a special space in my training log, where I 861 00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:27,300 write about what I'm feeling about my body or about things 862 00:50:27,300 --> 00:50:29,800 that are happening or about food. 863 00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:34,000 And there have been ups and downs and I think that I Also 864 00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:38,700 have this packed with him. And with myself that if I have 865 00:50:38,700 --> 00:50:43,100 not fed myself appropriately for the day like I don't get to 866 00:50:43,100 --> 00:50:49,500 train, you know, and that's and I know that and so it is this 867 00:50:49,500 --> 00:50:52,500 kind of like I do have those guardrails around me which is 868 00:50:52,500 --> 00:50:56,100 super helpful but at the same time I've been at this long 869 00:50:56,100 --> 00:51:01,900 enough that if I wanted to lie and cheat and and slide my way 870 00:51:01,900 --> 00:51:05,100 back into an eating disorder, I am Solutely could I just don't 871 00:51:05,100 --> 00:51:06,700 want to do it anymore. Yeah. 872 00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,200 You know, like, you get to a place where he's just like, I'm 873 00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:13,400 so tired of fighting. And I tell people because I 874 00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:15,600 think I've talked to people like, oh, well, how do I know 875 00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:17,700 when it's right to go into treatment or when it's right to 876 00:51:17,700 --> 00:51:19,700 seek help? Because how do I know it will 877 00:51:19,700 --> 00:51:21,400 get any better? And I was like, you don't know, 878 00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:24,300 it will get better. It's a leap of faith but you 879 00:51:24,300 --> 00:51:27,200 have to know that it's not sustainable with what you're 880 00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:31,500 doing now and it can't get any worse and I think that that's 881 00:51:31,500 --> 00:51:33,500 where the point that I got to myself. 882 00:51:33,900 --> 00:51:36,500 What would you say to like someone who's listening right 883 00:51:36,500 --> 00:51:39,600 now, who might be struggling and maybe hasn't talked to anyone 884 00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,500 about it. And what, who is the best person 885 00:51:42,500 --> 00:51:46,300 to talk to like, where would they even start if they wanted 886 00:51:46,300 --> 00:51:50,000 to get help? Yeah, it's so dependent for each 887 00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:54,700 person and I think the best person to talk to is the person, 888 00:51:54,700 --> 00:51:59,900 you feel the safest with, and that changes for anyone, not 889 00:51:59,900 --> 00:52:02,400 could be a friend, it could be a family member, it could be an 890 00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:06,200 Anonymous hotline. For instance, but just tell 891 00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:10,100 somebody and sometimes telling somebody anonymously is the best 892 00:52:10,100 --> 00:52:14,600 thing because secrets and everything kind of hot, they 893 00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:19,000 Thrive when you hide them. And so an eating disorder is 894 00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,900 going to thrive in secrecy, it's going to and it gets stronger, 895 00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:26,500 the more that you let it take over. 896 00:52:26,500 --> 00:52:32,500 And so the way to like the first step is outing it, you know, and 897 00:52:32,500 --> 00:52:37,900 as painful that can be She is just telling someone and so I 898 00:52:37,900 --> 00:52:44,300 think that, you know, finding a safe person or even if you are 899 00:52:44,300 --> 00:52:49,000 really serious depend on like finding a therapist, just having 900 00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:52,200 somebody to be able to just bring it out in the light, get 901 00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,600 it out of you and the things that you're worried about and 902 00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,500 the things that you're thinking and throwing them into the 903 00:52:58,500 --> 00:53:03,300 external world. I think is is a really good 904 00:53:03,300 --> 00:53:04,000 first. Stop. 905 00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,300 Yeah. And just being curious, you 906 00:53:06,300 --> 00:53:09,400 know, I called several treatment facilities and I remember being 907 00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,900 like, I don't know, I don't think that I'm not that sick, I 908 00:53:12,908 --> 00:53:15,700 don't need this and that's fine. You don't have to go through 909 00:53:15,700 --> 00:53:16,900 with it. You don't have to go through 910 00:53:16,900 --> 00:53:23,100 with anything but it can help to just be go through that process 911 00:53:23,100 --> 00:53:24,900 and see how you feel. Right. 912 00:53:24,900 --> 00:53:26,900 Mmm. Yeah thank you so much for that 913 00:53:26,900 --> 00:53:31,800 and we'll we'll put some links to maybe some hot lines in the 914 00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:36,300 show notes so that people If some resources well, Amelia 915 00:53:36,300 --> 00:53:38,800 thank you so much for coming on the show. 916 00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,600 We so much appreciate your Insight and your willingness to 917 00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:46,100 share what you've been through. Because like I said, I think 918 00:53:46,100 --> 00:53:49,700 it's really helpful for others to hear about what other people 919 00:53:49,700 --> 00:53:51,800 have been through and how they've dealt with these tough 920 00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:53,600 things. And I know it takes a lot of 921 00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:56,300 strength and courage to talk about it because you're putting 922 00:53:56,300 --> 00:53:59,500 yourself out there and that's definitely hard to do. 923 00:54:00,700 --> 00:54:05,600 If people want to find you online, Amelia Where is the best 924 00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,100 place to do that? Yeah, you can find me Instagram 925 00:54:09,100 --> 00:54:13,600 at a, our bun 11. I'm on Twitter at a million bun. 926 00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:15,400 I do have a website, a million racy. 927 00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:18,600 And that I'm locked out of but you can find me there. 928 00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:23,300 Ah, and I also recently, I haven't really done much with 929 00:54:23,300 --> 00:54:26,900 it, but started a sub stack, which is just under a million 930 00:54:26,900 --> 00:54:29,900 bun that you can find me through awesome. 931 00:54:29,900 --> 00:54:32,300 And we'll put those links down at the bottom, tier off for 932 00:54:32,300 --> 00:54:34,800 everyone to find. All right. 933 00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:36,700 Well thank you for listening everyone. 934 00:54:37,500 --> 00:54:40,100 Don't forget, leave us a review. Leave us a comment. 935 00:54:40,100 --> 00:54:42,400 We love to hear what you have to say. 936 00:54:42,700 --> 00:54:44,900 There's any topics you want us to cover? 937 00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,000 Let us know. We love to hear from our 938 00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,200 listeners. Thanks everyone.