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Hello everybody, and welcome to 
the Doctors of Running podcast, 

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where we, a group of doctors of 
physical therapy, discuss the 

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art and science of running and 
the stuff that we put on our 

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feet. 
This podcast is presented by 

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Rabbit, and that's new for 2026.
That is going to be a new rhythm

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that you're going to hear around
here. 

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We, if you have followed us in 
the past, have been very 

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thoughtful and careful about how
we do our partnerships with 

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different companies. 
And we were really excited that 

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this year we've been able to do 
some pretty intentional stuff 

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with Rabbit so that we can give 
you all who are listeners and 

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with us the most benefit 
possible. 

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And it also helps us continue to
do the podcast in a sustainable 

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way. 
And we also always choose to 

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partner with companies who we 
actually love and believe in. 

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Just like when we've done things
in the past with Scratch, we've 

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continued to work with. 
We also have the same thing 

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going on with Rabbit where we 
were all users of the product 

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before we had any sort of 
seating relationship. 

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We find that stuff pretty 
important and we're just excited

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for what's coming in our 
partnership with Rabbit. 

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And I just wanted to give a 
short kind of blurb of what we 

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hope you all get out of this 
partnership. 

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Mainly every single month we're 
going to have a different 

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discount code that's going to 
get you 10% off a purchase of 

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$50 or more. 
It's a one time use code, but 

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you'll get a different one every
month. 

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So if you tend to buy things for
different seasons throughout the

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year, it's not like a one and 
done forever. 

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It's going to be re upped every 
single month. 

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And then we also are going to be
working with them to create 

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doctors of running specific 
rabbit apparel. 

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O, we're going to have Dor 
branded stuff and maybe even 

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some secial collections. 
O We're really excited to get 

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that stuff out in the ether so 
that you all can partake in 

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using that as well. 
So really quick for the month of

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January, the code is Dor Jan 10 
DORJ AN-10. 

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That's going to get you 10% off 
in order. 

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But we're really excited to be 
working with Rabbit as the 

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presenting partner of this 
podcast for this year, and we 

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hope that you all get some 
benefit out of it. 

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But you'll be hearing a little 
bit more from us about what 

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we've been loving from Rabbit 
throughout the year. 

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David and Matt, do you have 
anything else you want to add 

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about our partnership with 
Rabbit? 

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No, I just think it's an organic
fit. 

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Like you said, we've been using 
the product. 

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I mean, pretty much since 
rabbits come out. 

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I, I remember I got the first 
like I forgot what they called 

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it was like muscle tank or 
something like it was like a 

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turquoise teal color. 
And it like, I mean, they're not

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that old of a company, but I, 
we, I remember getting it a long

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time ago now and I've 
consistently gone back to them. 

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I've used their shorts forever. 
They have great singlets and 

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performance apparel as well. 
So I think it's an organic fit 

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and it's something that we've, 
you know, we've all used it like

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you said. 
I would say if you ask any of my

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students or patients, the thing 
that I'm always wearing is a 

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high country, either short or a 
lot of sleep. 

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So, and that's been my 
purchasing and you know, 

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searching now recently like 
either good grabbing something 

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on sale or grabbing something on
eBay. 

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It was significant enough that 
actually students dressed up as 

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me. 
And for all the students that 

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did that for Halloween, I bought
them their size in a high 

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country short sleeve just to 
complete the Wii kit. 

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So yeah, definitely been a long 
time user for sure. 

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So very exciting. 
Kind of curiously where this 

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goes just 'cause you know, this 
is new ground and don't really 

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know what's going to happen, but
just curious to explore and see 

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what we can do to, yeah, make 
some fun stuff. 

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Yeah, and the, the people at 
Rabbit Two, we have some 

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personal connections with David 
living over in Santa Barbara. 

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So he runs into them and knows 
them. 

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And so there's, there's just 
cool parts of this whole 

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partnership that are beyond just
the stuff behind it. 

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But we really love the product. 
We know the people really like 

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the people and they're good 
friends. 

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So we're we're excited to be 
working with them going into 

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2026. 
But we have a fun episode today.

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We get to do a buy or sell 
episode. 

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We're going to be talking about 
a lot of shoes and we also going

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to be talking about some things 
as it relates to starting the 

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new year, maybe some goals for 
the year, buy or sell on some of

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those kinds of things. 
And then going into some running

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science and whether we buy or 
sell concept there. 

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But before we do that, we always
also want to talk about the 

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stuff that we have in for 
testing. 

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And so let's go into our in for 
testing segment, which is 

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powered and fueled by Scratch 
Lab. 

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David and Matt, what do you? 
What do you got on your feet or 

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on your body? 
Yeah, so a lot of the things 

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that I have on my feet currently
we will be talking about later 

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in the episode. 
So I won't get into those right 

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now, but there is one I've been 
eyeing and I'm excited to use 

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it. 
But in Santa Barbara, if you 

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guys are aware, and anywhere on 
the West Coast really at this 

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point, we've been just getting 
pummeled by rain lately. 

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So those trails are not trails I
want to be in right now. 

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Some people love it. 
I just would. 

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Knowing me, I'll eat it and 
something bad will happen. 

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But the Tobo Terra Venture 5, 
I've been needing to take this 

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out. 
Yeah, I've, I've walked around 

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in it, I've taken it to work a 
couple times, but I just haven't

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quite gotten out on the trails 
yet. 

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And I'm getting caught up with 
some other testing and I think 

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it'd be good to take this out 
once it dries up and conditions 

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are a little bit better. 
But the fit's good. 

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I like it, you know, very 
balanced feel to it and the 

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stacks a little bit lower. 
It's not like the Super high 

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chunky shoe. 
So just nice flexible kind of 

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natural feeling shoe. 
So I'm excited to take that out.

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It's more of a through hiker 
too, so you can kind of run and 

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hike in it. 
That's kind of the intention. 

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Matt, what about you all? 
Right, I've got a couple things.

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A lot of the stuff that I'm 
currently testing we're going to

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talk about. 
So I'm going to pass on that. 

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I'm going to start with 
something that sounds like we're

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not going to touch on, but I got
the new Saucony guy 19. 

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It is the newest iteration of 
Saucony's kind of more, how do I

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say this, the more inline 
stability shoe compared to 

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something like the Hurricane, 
which is kind of their premium 

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stability shoe. 
Did I say neutral shoe? 

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Sorry, they're they're inline. 
Sorry, stability shoe. 

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I have. 
I am mildly concussed right now.

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I hit my head pretty hard 
morning and so yeah, this. 

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Is newly to both of us. 
Yeah, sorry, I didn't say 

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anything. 
You noticed the like big cut 

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here that gushed pretty bad and 
I still ran a longer. 

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It didn't go well afterwards. 
I think so, yeah. 

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I'm mildly nauseous right now, 
but it's fine. 

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Breaks his toes, goes for a run,
gets like concussion, Yeah. 

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That's for a run. 
It was an accident. 

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I hit my head in the door, I 
click, I don't know, prematurely

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closed it in my head. 
It was an accident. 

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Do as I do as I say, not as I do
situations. 

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Yeah, so it's luckily I remember
everything. 

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I like all my like each test 
stuff and like the screen was 

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fairly was negative, but the the
slight nausea afterwards is all 

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right Anyway, Yeah, so I have 
the guy 19, which is the like 

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the inline stability model as 
opposed to the premium stability

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model, which is the hurricane. 
And yeah, I've got about 30-40 

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miles on my pair. 
The major updates was they 

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softened the sole a little bit, 
maybe upper a little bit more 

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like adjusted like adjust to the
foot more and then did some more

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outsole material. 
And I'm going to be honest that 

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I'm kind of disappointed, to be 
honest. 

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It's still a decent shoe. 
It really fits. 

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I think what Sakanu was doing. 
I'm just like this shoe really 

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hasn't changed since the 17. 
If anything, it's gotten a 

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little bit heavier. 
I think I understand where 

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they're going because this is 
like it's and they say this, 

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it's a great walking shoe and 
I've actually enjoyed it a lot 

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more for walking and standing 
than I have for running. 

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Running is just it's not 
exciting and that's maybe part 

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of me being reviewer or maybe 
that's a a bias and a problem I 

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have wanting something really 
exciting. 

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It's not it's a simple shoe. 
It's something that thinks 

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really good for people that are 
walking, standing or a new 

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runner that just needs a tiny 
bit of guidance, but maybe 

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doesn't need the full 
prescriptive stuff yet. 

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It's not just not super exciting
like like user or some other 

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stuff for what I'm really hoping
for with the hurricane. 

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So just know that's what it is. 
So I that's some of my bias, but

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I'm getting miles and the 
outsole is holding up really, 

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really well. 
But that's the guy 19. 

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Two other shoes that I've been 
getting miles on is the 361 

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furious feature 2 point O, which
I was able to grab a pair of 

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thanks to some friends that work
there. 

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And it's been a really 
interesting shoe. 

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It like the second I put it on, 
I was like, whoa, this is a this

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is an aggressive shoe. 
It's probably one of the most 

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rockard shoes I think I've ever 
experienced before. 

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And this sits in line with shoes
like the alpha fly and other 

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shoes. 
Like it's very bouncy, super 

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like feels like a podsular 4 
foot. 

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I wish this midfoot was a little
bit wider, but I realized that 

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would make it a little heavier. 
It's it's not unstable. 

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It's also not stable either with
something I always look for 

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wonderful keel bubble in the 
back and just yeah, crazy 

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bounce. 
It's been really interesting to 

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get some out. 
Oh and the durability is killer.

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I cannot kill the shoe. 
I think I've got like 60 miles 

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and I can't break it so. 
Do you think alpha fly like 3 or

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the earlier iterations? 
That's a really good question. 

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It's probably probably more 
similar to the earlier 

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iterations. 
It does have that similar 

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forefoot pods your feeling 
without having that as much. 

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I think that's just how insanely
stiff the plate is and just from

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the bulbous midsole, like really
stable forefoot, but not too far

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off. 
Just a little bit heavier than 

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some of the current stuff, but 
it's been really good. 

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I didn't I wasn't sure about it 
initially, but it's been a 

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really solid option and I'm 
enjoying getting miles on it 

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Final one is I've been getting 
miles back on the fast R3 and 

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although it makes my midfoot 
ache every time I use it, I'm 

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still getting miles and I will 
say that the outsole's holding 

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up a lot better as the miles go 
on than I was expecting really 

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significant early wear. 
It's doing a lot better, but 

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this is definitely not a long 
distance shoe for me, although I

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think it's Zach bitter who runs 
100 miles in these, which I that

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is insane so good for him on 
that. 

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I can't do that. 
So that's what I what I am. 

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Throwing around at the moment, 
yeah, do. 

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You know where Zach Bitter went 
to college. 

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With you. 
You WSP, baby. 

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Oh, got it. 
Stevens Point. 

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Yeah, he ran with. 
I didn't run with him. 

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I didn't go here for college and
I also did not run in college. 

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I am not a skilled runner, but 
he ran with one of my one of my 

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best friends. 
They were on the team together 

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and he was, he was OK in 
college, but then basically 

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learned he can just be OK for 
100 miles, you know, like just 

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like he can just keep going and.
Now you're really good, yeah. 

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Yes, exactly. 
Just OK, running 6-6 minute pace

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for 100 miles, Yeah. 
That's fine. 

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Exactly. 
Just keep doing that. 

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Doesn't doesn't have to stop, 
doesn't get tired. 

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That's awesome. 
As you all know, I don't know 

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how many of the listeners know 
I've been going through bone 

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stress injury stuff, so I'm on 
the tail end of that. 

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I'm hoping to get running in the
next two to three weeks. 

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But with that, that means I have
not been running. 

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I have been putting shoes on my 
feet. 

225
00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,240
And I would say of all of the 
shoes that I put on my feet, 

226
00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,640
there's one that I'm really 
excited about, which I don't 

227
00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,280
think you you all have liked 
very much, but it's the ultra. 

228
00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:01,440
Oh. 
I like that. 

229
00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,120
Ford via Ford via You guys the 
2. 

230
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,000
Yeah, it's actually it's. 
Great. 

231
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,960
It's actually pretty nice, Yeah.
Oh well then I must have misread

232
00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,920
the chat so. 
But what? 

233
00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,480
I'm really excited about this is
a little bit of an amped up 

234
00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,480
version of my favorite trainer 
from them last year. 

235
00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:21,760
Why am I blanking on the name of
that shoe? 

236
00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:23,800
I'll find it. 
Oh, the forward experience. 

237
00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:25,520
Yeah. 
So the forward model. 

238
00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:27,320
Yeah. 
So that one was just it's a 

239
00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,440
little bit lower, a little bit 
more flexible, a little bit more

240
00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:33,040
ground feel, but it has the same
new foam compound. 

241
00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,720
So it's a little bit softer for 
what you're used to with ultra 

242
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,600
and it's just a little bit 
stiffer, which for what? 

243
00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:42,520
My feet are doing this will 
probably I'm excited because I 

244
00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,720
think it's going to allow me to 
do more in this shoe with a lot 

245
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,560
of the same feel. 
I also feel like the fit is the 

246
00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:52,200
best ultra fit in a while 
because they've been so tight 

247
00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,880
around that transition from the 
midfoot to 4 foot for a while, 

248
00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:56,560
and this one is much more opened
up. 

249
00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,520
So I'm going to talk about this 
shoe again during a buy or sell,

250
00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:03,200
but I have been really excited 
about this. 

251
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,960
I've been using it for walking 
and I'm doing some elliptical 

252
00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,200
stuff and I wear it for that, 
but that doesn't tell me 

253
00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:09,640
anything about what it feels 
like to run in. 

254
00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,200
But if I'm excited to run in 
this shoe, 4mm drop, a little 

255
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,640
bit softer foam, but still on 
the firmer end of the spectrum, 

256
00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:20,920
could be if I can include it in 
my 2026 shoes, which I think 

257
00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,440
because of how late it came out,
we might be able to. 

258
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,160
I feel like this one's an early 
contender for a workhorse 

259
00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,160
trainer for me or just a easy 
run shoe for me. 

260
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,120
We will see. 
We still need to review that. 

261
00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:33,880
I think it was. 
It's a it's a great shoe that 

262
00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,360
fits good. 
I just, I got my miles and it 

263
00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,040
moved on because my Achilles is 
a little sensitive to 4mm below 

264
00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,520
and then kind of yeah, yeah. 
Software foam too, makes. 

265
00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:45,640
It Yeah, we got to get back to, 
we got to review that one. 

266
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,040
Yeah, well, that's what we got. 
That's what we got in for 

267
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,000
testing. 
Thank you to Scratch Labs for 

268
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:53,880
fueling that. 
If you want to check out Scratch

269
00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,320
Labs and all of their fueling 
products and hydration products,

270
00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,280
you can go to scratchlags.com. 
Use the code doctors of running 

271
00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,920
for 20% off your first order. 
Let's Yeah. 

272
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,320
Just a comment for scratch. 
What happened to the watermelon?

273
00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:11,800
It's not. 
Available, it was so good and 

274
00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,600
now it's not available anymore. 
So I'm like just you're like, 

275
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,440
it's like, did anybody is 
anybody selling it on eBay? 

276
00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:18,560
Like when is it going to show 
up? 

277
00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,720
So I just want to know when 
that's coming back because that 

278
00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,520
is, I think by far my favorite 
flavor ever. 

279
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,320
But yeah, I'm sorry. 
We're hitting a new era for 

280
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,880
Matt, where he's now on eBay 
hunting for scratch lab flavors.

281
00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:33,800
I'd have. 
That's bad. 

282
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,400
That's like back to my old days 
where like eBay haunted for like

283
00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,000
slightly expired protein bars 
and bulk over them. 

284
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,400
Like, I wonder why I'm having 
such bad digestive issues. 

285
00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:43,640
But hey, I I got energy I need, 
so it's fine. 

286
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:48,200
I did that for a long time. 
Hey, you're in like in grad 

287
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,080
school and you're in another 
grad school and like, yeah, you 

288
00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,280
know. 
I'm going to be reaching out to 

289
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:54,920
her. 
From the same grad school, there

290
00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,760
was a Grocery Outlet just down 
the way that's. 

291
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:02,040
Like it was way more affordable.
No no, it was way more 

292
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,360
affordable. 
The book order them for like on 

293
00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,880
2 cents each so it's fine. 
That's so funny. 

294
00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:09,200
Sorry. 
Well, when I reach out, I have 

295
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,720
to talk to them this week. 
So when I do that, I'll mention 

296
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:13,040
about the watermelon for you, 
Matt. 

297
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,720
All right, let's move on to our 
don't put it on eBay. 

298
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:21,000
I'll stop. 
Right. 

299
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,400
Let's move on to our buy or sell
portion of this. 

300
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,000
If you haven't done one of these
episodes with us, basically we 

301
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,000
put an idea, a shoe, a topic on 
the table and we either buy it 

302
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,320
like yes, I would either buy 
that shoe or I buy that concept 

303
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,520
or sell. 
I would not buy that shoe. 

304
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,680
I would sell. 
I wouldn't you know, or I don't,

305
00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:40,680
I sell the topic. 
I don't think that's the case. 

306
00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:45,840
So the first several here are 
going to be shoe based. 

307
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,960
The first one is a new shoe, new
model coming out from Saucony. 

308
00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,680
Help me with pronunciation if I 
get it wrong, but it's the 

309
00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,680
Saucony Azura. 
Is that correct? 

310
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,480
Yeah, I mean, so I. 
Think you want it to be neat? 

311
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,640
Just ask Matt how that goes. 
Yeah, you should have all people

312
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,360
I know. 
Yeah, I'm not going to judge at 

313
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,560
all, so don't worry. 
Before you say buy or sell, can 

314
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,440
someone help people who don't 
know about this shoe yet? 

315
00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,880
Like what was it created for? 
What's it about? 

316
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,320
Some specs maybe? 
You know the best person to talk

317
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:26,080
about this one of these. 
Things. 

318
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,920
Since you interviewed them, 
maybe you have the he has the 

319
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,200
insider knowledge. 
Oh yeah, yeah, I see. 

320
00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,480
Yeah, yeah. 
So the Saucony endorphin is 

321
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:34,760
there. 
I have it right over here to the

322
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:36,000
side. 
So I'll just grab it for the 

323
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,560
viewers. 
So holding this up so this is 

324
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,840
essentially what they are. 
They want this to be a daily 

325
00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,280
trainer, but it's within the 
endorphin lineup. 

326
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:50,320
It's kind of meant to just be 
that versatile like do 

327
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,920
everything shoot, but still feel
good at easy shuffling paces 

328
00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:58,560
like you should be able to still
run slow in this shoe and 

329
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,880
there's no plate. 
It is power on PB Mitzel. 

330
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,920
It's if you wanted World 
Athletics legal shoe. 

331
00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,640
It is World Athletics legal. 
It's 40 in the heel, 32 in the 

332
00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:14,440
four foot and it's 8.5 oz men's 
size 9 and 240 grams for those 

333
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:15,760
that want the grams 
measurements. 

334
00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,840
Yes, I have that all memorized 
from doing the video the other 

335
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:24,440
day. 
But yeah, it's it's a solid 

336
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,680
shoe. 
Do you want me to go into the 

337
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:28,560
buy, sell or? 
Sure. 

338
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:30,320
I think that I did not include 
that. 

339
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,000
That's a pretty solid price to 
be honest, for what what the 

340
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,280
shoe comes with. 
Yeah, so retail's at 150, you're

341
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:41,720
40328.5 oz. 
You have a super foam, no play. 

342
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,480
Oh, fun fact. 
Also, we talked about this on 

343
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,800
the podcast a little bit for 
those that were a fan of the 

344
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:52,440
Saucony Endorphin Elite one, 
such as I was, this was built on

345
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,320
the same last and the platform 
is inspired from that. 

346
00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,960
So yeah, and it makes a lot of 
sense. 

347
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,440
So when you look at this shoe, 
it's a little bit more balanced 

348
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,400
at the heel. 
You definitely have rounding. 

349
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,960
I mean, there's a heel bevel, 
but it's very sharp up front. 

350
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,480
And so you get this kind of 
stiff 4 foot rocker experience. 

351
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,040
They actually coined that this 
could be an endorphin shift 

352
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,960
replacement. 
I don't know if I fully. 

353
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,440
Agree with it. 
I, I, I see where they're going 

354
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:26,800
with it, but I don't know, the 
endorphin shift was a firm Eva, 

355
00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:31,320
like the power on PB just feels 
different, you know, but in 

356
00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:32,880
general the shoes actually 
really nice. 

357
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,200
So like at $150.00, I am 
definitely a buy. 

358
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,120
Like this could be a shoe that I
might be talking about later on 

359
00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:42,520
in the year. 
I don't know, Like it's one of 

360
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:46,920
those shoes I kind of to figure 
out a little bit at first it 

361
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:51,440
just it the shoe is responsive. 
There's power in PB in this. 

362
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,520
So like when I'm easily 
shuffling, it feels good. 

363
00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,720
But the second my like stride 
starts to elongate a little bit 

364
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,960
and I feel that 4 foot rocker 
like you kind of want to pick up

365
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,640
the pace and then the second you
do, the shoe starts responding. 

366
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:09,160
So like you almost like start 
pushing the pace without really 

367
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,520
meaning to. 
Not necessarily a bad thing. 

368
00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:14,720
You know, I think it's 
definitely versatile enough to 

369
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,400
hit, you know, up tempo, long 
runs and tempo runs and even 

370
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,320
just hard workouts. 
It's it is a versatile shoot, 

371
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:24,280
but definitely, but I do think 
you have to be a little like 

372
00:18:24,360 --> 00:18:27,680
actively thinking about going 
easy, if that makes sense. 

373
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,320
And it doesn't feel bad going 
easy paces. 

374
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,040
Like it definitely can go easy 
paces and feel nice. 

375
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,360
And it's it's weird because it's
like it's like a tale of two 

376
00:18:35,360 --> 00:18:36,960
different paces. 
I said that on on their own 

377
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:41,360
video where it's like when 
you're running slow and you're 

378
00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:44,240
like meaning to run slow, you 
can feel that the power on TV 

379
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,400
just kind of it's a little bit 
firmer too than some of the 

380
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,880
other super foams. 
So like you can feel like it 

381
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,920
just takes the impact and then 
you just kind of like roll off 

382
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,080
the forefoot and you get this 
kind of rolling feeling at the 

383
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,280
forefoot and it feels really 
nice and rhythmic like the 

384
00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,080
endorphin elite one, but at a 
slower pace. 

385
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,080
And then the second you pick up 
the pace, all of a sudden your 

386
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:02,840
stride lengthens out and the 
thing's snapping. 

387
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,120
You know what I mean? 
Like and it's weird and, and 

388
00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:07,200
that they feel very different. 
It almost feels like they're 

389
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,480
different shoes depending how 
fast you're going, but they work

390
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:12,680
at both paces. 
I think they did a good job of 

391
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,040
like creating a shoe that can be
versatile. 

392
00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:19,680
When with this shoe, with this 
shoe being built on the same 

393
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,360
kind of rocker and rocker and 
last profile of the Endorphin 

394
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:26,840
Elite One, I know for myself I 
had a hard time getting up onto 

395
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:28,360
that rocker. 
Is it? 

396
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:30,520
Does it feel similar in that 
way? 

397
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:31,880
I know you got along with the 
Davids. 

398
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:33,720
Maybe you're not the one to 
answer that question. 

399
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,120
I have the shoe. 
I've worn it to walk around, but

400
00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:38,720
I haven't ran in it yet. 
Thoughts on that? 

401
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,360
And Matt, maybe you want to 
start and then David can go. 

402
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,800
Yeah, you might. 
It does feel pretty similar. 

403
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:49,040
Like it. 
It almost feels like, I don't 

404
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,040
know if you remember when I was 
talking about the Nike Vomero 

405
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,200
Premium, not that they feel 
similar, but that the Nike 

406
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,600
Vomero Premium almost felt like 
Alphafly one beefed up and 

407
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,840
turned into a daily trainer. 
This almost feels like the 

408
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,040
equivalent for the Soccer 
Endorphin Elite one beefed up 

409
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,080
and turned into a trainer like. 
The geometry is still very 

410
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,120
reminiscent for me. 
That's a very good thing. 

411
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,960
I got along with the geometry, 
but and it's definitely it runs 

412
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,520
pretty stable too. 
Like the like the platform under

413
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:20,280
foot's pretty wide. 
The traction's good. 

414
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,120
I've had zero issues with the 
slick roads right now. 

415
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,080
It to me it's a more of a 
stability shoe than the guide is

416
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,640
to be honest. 
It's it's way more stable for. 

417
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:31,920
People who need like medial 
stability. 

418
00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:34,640
Yeah, I would say people that 
don't be a little cautious 

419
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,240
because the the medial, the 
medial pressure is pretty 

420
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,240
significant, feels great for me.
It may not feel great for 

421
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:40,720
others. 
But Nathan, to answer your 

422
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,680
question, I I do think you might
struggle with this because it's 

423
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,080
kind of God and correct me if 
you 2 think I'm wrong on this. 

424
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:48,960
To me, it has kind of a late 
rocker, right? 

425
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,840
And the Dorfin Elite have a 
really late 1, which when you 

426
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,200
have a rocker like 4 foot 
rockers and all the rockers vary

427
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,800
depending on their angles and 
they're like all this kind of 

428
00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,240
stuff. 
So you can have a super long 1, 

429
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,400
you could have super short. 
That'll change kind of what 

430
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,480
speeds. 
It works really well at it. 

431
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:05,680
Also, again, it's very 
surprising to me to hear that 

432
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,120
this doesn't have a plate. 
It's definitely, and again, it's

433
00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:11,760
breaking a little bit, but it's 
not a super flexible, even 

434
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:13,840
moderately flexible shoot. 
It definitely feels a little 

435
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:14,880
stiff. 
And I think part of that, 

436
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,360
Nathan, answer your question 
comes from that slightly late 

437
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:19,920
rocker like this. 
This flex groove hasn't really 

438
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,400
broken in. 
And I've got like 20 miles in my

439
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,600
pair, which is not not much yet,
but I think you may. 

440
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:26,760
Experience somebody say. 
Anything. 

441
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:31,400
Anyone else not as bad, Yeah, I 
mean maybe not as bad because 

442
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,440
there's no plate. 
I think as it breaks in it's 

443
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,840
fine potentially for any for 
differently. 

444
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,600
And then the power run PB I 
think is going to have a little 

445
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,000
bit more I think give and not 
respond as quick as the power 

446
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,920
run HG. 
But you are probably going to 

447
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,080
feel some of that reminiscent 
concept there in the forefront, 

448
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:49,880
potentially based on the 
geometry. 

449
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,200
Are you a buy or sell mat on the
on this shoe? 

450
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,200
Can I ask you a clarifying 
question on that? 

451
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,120
Sure. 
Is it just the shoe buy or sell?

452
00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:00,920
Or is there a specific concept 
that's buy or sell about it? 

453
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,520
I have a follow up regarding the
concept but. 

454
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:06,160
OK. 
For the shoe itself. 

455
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,600
Yeah, I'm I'm definitely a bite.
This is the best thing in my 

456
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:11,760
opinion of the recent stuff that
Saka knees put out. 

457
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:13,920
And part of that's because I've 
been really struggling. 

458
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:15,920
I'll be very honest that the 
review is not. 

459
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,160
I mean, I understand why and 
what they're trying to do 

460
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,680
because David explained to me, 
but I'm not a really big fan of 

461
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,280
the Endorphin Pro 5. 
It's that shoe is no longer a 

462
00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:27,200
stable neutral racer based on 
some geometry changes that I 

463
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,200
think have happened. 
The guide I think is very much a

464
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,080
neutral shoe that just happens 
to be slightly stable. 

465
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,040
This I really am enjoying, but 
I'm also a really big fan of 

466
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,640
like simple shoes of not having 
a plate in everything. 

467
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,560
Having a really good 150 bucks 
is a great price point for this 

468
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:46,160
shoe. 
It also is something that I 

469
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,840
think fits a lot of needs well. 
I'm beginning to wonder how like

470
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,360
we have such insane diversity in
footwear now. 

471
00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:56,600
It kind of makes sometimes feels
like we're getting lost. 

472
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,480
And it's really nice just to 
have a simple shoe that like, 

473
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,040
Hey, this is just your do it 
all. 

474
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:02,600
And I think I I really like 
that. 

475
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,000
It's not necessarily the best at
anything, but it does a lot of 

476
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,360
things very well as a, and I'm 
biased, lightweight trainer, 

477
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,720
decent fits a little bit snug, 
but it breaks in. 

478
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,360
You can use it for fast stuff. 
You can use it for slow stuff. 

479
00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:18,280
I think especially with newer 
runners and a lot of other like,

480
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,320
you know, a lot of people out 
there just going, man, it's a 

481
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,120
little overwhelming. 
How many options there is This 

482
00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:26,160
is a good one that you know I'd 
probably you know based on I 

483
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,400
only have 20 miles, but if I was
not on Dor, this probably would 

484
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,000
be one that I would grab again 
because it's to me it's the best

485
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,600
one of the recent things that 
have come out of soccity. 

486
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,640
I'm also biased though, because 
it is also very medially stable 

487
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,120
based on some geometry that 
happened and I'm really enjoying

488
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:42,640
that. 
But I'm a buy with this. 

489
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,160
I have a. 
Question for you, is this going 

490
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,520
to fill the void of your 
lightweight performance trainer?

491
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,680
Stability performance trainer. 
Yeah, stability. 

492
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,280
Sorry, my bad. 
Lightweight stability 

493
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,360
performance trainer like add 
ease or a tempo no longer 

494
00:23:58,360 --> 00:24:00,720
existing like those that lane of
footwear. 

495
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:03,720
Oh, I need some more testing, 
Miles. 

496
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,080
But it actually might. 
Yeah, it actually might. 

497
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,760
Bring this one to a Hondo. 
Yeah, bring this one to a Hondo.

498
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,000
I will. 
I will go do that. 

499
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,080
I had been holding off on miles 
cuz I know David and Andrea were

500
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,720
gonna do the testing but I will 
go get more miles and I'll find 

501
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,160
out what happens. 
Yeah, I'll have my miles for a 

502
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,280
review tomorrow. 
So by the time this comes out, 

503
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:25,880
that yeah, written should be 
out. 

504
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,240
So here's my follow up. 
Buy or sell. 

505
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,480
It actually was taken by David a
little bit when you were talking

506
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,280
about the shift. 
Buy or sell the endorphin. 

507
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:45,120
Azura is a shift replacement. 
So I can see why someone would 

508
00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:47,440
say I buy it. 
It's not that different, right? 

509
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,360
Like it's a late stage 4 foot 
rocker, like that's what the 

510
00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:54,400
shift was. 
But I think when I when I think 

511
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,000
of the shift and I wasn't like a
massive fan of the shift, like a

512
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,920
lot of people were like I got 
along fine with it, but I wasn't

513
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:02,880
like a a shift zealot by any 
means. 

514
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:08,040
But it was just kind of like a 
stiff, pretty stable EBA rocker 

515
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,440
with a late stage 4 foot that 
just rolled off the front. 

516
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,200
A lot of those things are are in
the Azura. 

517
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,520
But I think the power run PB is 
what breaks up for me. 

518
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,120
And I actually prefer the power 
run PB. 

519
00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:23,120
Like I'd rather have the Azura 
than the shift personally. 

520
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,920
But I I don't think it is the 
same equivalent shoe. 

521
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,240
I don't think it's necessarily a
replacement shoe for the shift. 

522
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:37,760
Like I'm I'm a sell but I could 
see why someone would be a buy. 

523
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:42,160
Matt, what are you? 
I'm also a cell. 

524
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:46,240
I think it's an evolution. 
I think it, it would not be a 

525
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:52,320
true like shift version 4, just 
as David outlined, right? 

526
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,600
And and it's power on PB. 
It's not the Eva with the power 

527
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,120
on midsole or power on PB in 
Seoul. 

528
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,840
That said, I do think it's more 
appropriate for today's world 

529
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,640
because honestly, I'm not to be 
rude power on PBS old. 

530
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,200
It's just it's not, in my 
opinion, it doesn't have the 

531
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,360
same like bounce quality that a 
lot of the other companies are 

532
00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:15,960
coming out with at the moment. 
I know they have some new stuff 

533
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,280
and I know that there's some 
stuff really cooking and that's 

534
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:23,320
going to really change in late 
20262027 from what I hear. 

535
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:25,200
I haven't seen it have an 
experience. 

536
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,760
Well, that's not true. 
The Incredi run is a great 

537
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:31,840
example of hey, this is and, and
the new foams they're using in 

538
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:33,520
Incredilux. 
Incredilux. 

539
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:34,640
Yeah. 
So they're they're coming. 

540
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,760
But I I think it is it has some 
similarities. 

541
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,800
Some of the geometry is somewhat
similar. 

542
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,800
It's not it's stable. 
It's not nearly as stable as the

543
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,560
shift was. 
So I don't think it's fully 

544
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,280
there. 
I think it's an appropriate 

545
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,720
evolution and I think it's more 
similar than things like the 

546
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,240
Endorphin trainer because it 
doesn't have a plate and it's 

547
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,720
still a little bit stiff, but 
I'm it's still, it's a different

548
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,880
shoe. 
I just I like it and I think I 

549
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,680
like it for similar, somewhat 
similar reasons. 

550
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,320
I like the shift. 
The difference is it's much 

551
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,200
lighter. 
The shift was still in like the 

552
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,960
10 plus. 
Yeah, I could. 

553
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,320
I still did workouts in the 
shift, which I found very 

554
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,880
surprising, but I could and 
that's what it was intended for 

555
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:16,760
like workout long run and it did
great. 

556
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,120
This is now more versatile in 
being able to be lighter, like 

557
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,440
more. 
It can handle faster paces 

558
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,560
better. 
It can handle slower paces just 

559
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,680
as well. 
So I'm still a sell. 

560
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,080
I get what they're trying to do 
and why, but you can also still 

561
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:32,560
find an endorphin shift 3 is on 
eBay. 

562
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,280
I think for me, as someone who 
hasn't ran in the Azura more 

563
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,600
thinking about what the shift 
was, I think that there are two 

564
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,200
different avenues and two 
different lanes that the shift 

565
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,080
filled. 
One was this kind of stable, 

566
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,680
neutral, slightly lighter weight
kind of workhorse trainer that 

567
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,280
could go a little faster and 
pick up the pace on that rocker.

568
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,600
I think that the Zura sounds 
like kind of matches that 

569
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,800
function in some way of the 
shift and is maybe even better 

570
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,080
in the running sphere. 
But the other thing that I use 

571
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,120
it for the physical therapist I 
the shift was an awesome shoe to

572
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:12,160
give for folks with different 
sort of like foot, ankle 

573
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:16,360
Achilles type of conditions. 
Really good for just mild anti 

574
00:28:16,360 --> 00:28:19,360
pronation kind of work, a little
bit of that rocker to take some 

575
00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:23,120
load off the Achilles. 
I, I, I've walked around in this

576
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:25,360
shoe and it doesn't feel like a 
shoe I'd love. 

577
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:28,000
I would love to walk around in 
and just be on my feet all the 

578
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,520
time. 
It's more of a running shoe. 

579
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:31,200
So that's where it doesn't 
quite. 

580
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,480
I'll sell it as well because it 
doesn't quite encapsulate 

581
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,440
everything that the shift was. 
IA 1000% agree with like the 

582
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,400
ability to have the shift be 
prescriptive and I did the same 

583
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:43,640
thing. 
It was a great option for that. 

584
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,680
The Azura is much more of a 
running shoe. 

585
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,040
It's not as comfortable walking.
It's a shoe that I have not 

586
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,400
enjoyed as much for walking when
I've had to it, but it's running

587
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:54,760
great. 
So I agree. 

588
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,680
I think that was the best way to
say it actually. 

589
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,720
The shoe, the shoe for me that 
goes into The Walking sphere 

590
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,800
that's closest because you don't
need it to be light, is the 

591
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,280
Ghost Max series. 
I think that that is starting to

592
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:06,280
become. 
Max is good. 

593
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,400
I would say Ghost Max and 
Saucony Echelon are kind of 

594
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,120
those two for me frequently if 
I'm not suggesting A topo which 

595
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,200
has now been kind of my go to 
orthopedic issue shoe depending 

596
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,120
on the issue all. 
Right, let's go to our next buy 

597
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,240
or sell. 
The next is buy or sell. 

598
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,880
The ASICS Nimbus 28 is better 
than the 27. 

599
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,720
Oh man. 
I can go first. 

600
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,440
Yeah, David, please go. 
First, yeah, 1000% it's a buy. 

601
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:42,480
It's easy, it's landslides 
better, it's lighter, it's more 

602
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,920
responsive, the rocker fits 
better, the upper fits my foot 

603
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,200
better. 
Like everything about this 

604
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:50,800
model, this is my favorite 
Nimbus ever. 

605
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:52,800
Oh cool. 
Yeah. 

606
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,120
And I feel like the foam is like
just ever so slightly firmer. 

607
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,320
And in the in the past, like the
Nimbus has kind of hurt my foot 

608
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,640
because it was a little softer 
under foot. 

609
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,240
And now it's like you have the, 
it's a pretty wide platform, 

610
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,640
decent soul flaring. 
Like I feel like I've kind of 

611
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,720
leaned towards shoes that just 
have a little bit of stability. 

612
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,360
It's but not quite a stability 
shoe. 

613
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,640
And I feel like the Nimbus does 
that for me. 

614
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,080
And it's like just under 10 oz 
now, right? 

615
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,200
9.9. 
Yeah, this shoe is like way 

616
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,480
better. 
Like it's not even that. 

617
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:24,920
It's a buy. 
Yeah. 

618
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:26,760
Great. 
Traction's good. 

619
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,240
Everything, everything about 
it's solid. 

620
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,360
I've been very, very happy with 
it. 

621
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,880
The only thing is the tongue is 
a little thin. 

622
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:34,760
Thank you. 
Oh my gosh. 

623
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,160
But I. 
Was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

624
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,920
The one thing that saves it, 
though, is the way it's 

625
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:43,840
gusseted. 
It hugs your foot really well, 

626
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,880
so you don't have to lace it 
very tight right here and then 

627
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,240
you just lace the top. 
That's my only gripe, is it? 

628
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,360
Otherwise, this is like the 
lace, my workhorse right now. 

629
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,640
The lace bite is bad on this 
shoe. 

630
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,480
I will say I have 75 miles on my
pair and I've kept running it. 

631
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,040
It's Nathan Goat by the way. 
I want to hear what you have to.

632
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,000
Say, well, I haven't ran in it, 
but I put it on and I was like, 

633
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,320
they've done this tongue before 
and it's been my least favorite 

634
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,160
tongue. 
So like they did it, I think in 

635
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,480
the Nimbus Light series when 
that was going around. 

636
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:16,480
And then I think it was in the 
20, 25 or 24. 

637
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,680
I think it was the 25 when they 
first made the big change to the

638
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,040
Nimbus. 
They had this really padded heel

639
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,640
and then this super thin tongue 
and it just felt like you had 

640
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,440
all this padding on one side and
no padding on the on the other. 

641
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,520
So just like push you forward. 
I, I'm not a fan of the tongue. 

642
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,600
So that's all I, I'm not buying 
or sell. 

643
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,760
I'm not buying or selling that 
yet because I haven't ran in it.

644
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,720
Very likely that I like it more.
But I've liked, I've liked all 

645
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,720
the new Nimbuses after 25 
because they firmed it up a 

646
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,640
little bit in 26, made it way 
more runnable. 

647
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:47,720
I've liked them all. 
But now what do you say? 

648
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,640
Buy or sell? 
I don't know, I did a comparison

649
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,600
review on these on version 27 
and 28. 

650
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,080
Can I talk this through really 
quick before I answer? 

651
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:58,640
Yeah, not allowed. 
Yeah, of course. 

652
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,640
OK. 
They're just two completely 

653
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,760
different shoes. 
And I think my challenge with 

654
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:08,040
the 28, to be honest, I do like 
the 28 better outside of the 

655
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:09,480
tongue. 
It fits what I like. 

656
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,680
It's more responsive. 
I've done workouts in it, It's 

657
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,680
snappier, it's more stable 
because it's firmer. 

658
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,640
My challenge with that is then 
it kind of loses its place. 

659
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,760
Like I've, I, I've known the 
Nimbus for two decades back when

660
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,840
I was selling shoes and running 
stores and that was always the 

661
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:32,760
premium super soft cushion shoe.
And it doesn't feel like that 

662
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,240
anymore. 
It's become this like more 

663
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,320
instead of a premium trainer, 
it's more of that like trainer 

664
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,360
feel where it's like in that 
lightweight, lighter weight 

665
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,600
range, but it's not soft. 
And that's kind of, and maybe 

666
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,720
that's my problem is I associate
more cushioning and softness 

667
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,040
with this premium label, 
especially at 170 bucks. 

668
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,800
So I'm not, I'm not sure yet 
because I'm not sure where it 

669
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,000
sits. 
And people have been commenting 

670
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,720
on the YouTube, a shoe that I 
had no idea, didn't know 

671
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,360
anything about something called 
the Slow Kush that might be 

672
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,360
coming out from ASICS. 
It's supposed to be this like 

673
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,080
ultra cushioned shoe. 
I don't know anything about. 

674
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,440
I don't even know it's real. 
But I'm just confused about 

675
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,880
where it sits in the line and 
how it's going to differ like 

676
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,960
and maybe I need to see what the
cumulus 28 is light and I'm 

677
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,880
hoping that much is much later 
because I have not really liked 

678
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,000
the last two versions that much 
compared to the one before I 

679
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,840
thought was really great. 
So I'm just very confused by the

680
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,360
nimbus 28. 
I'm not a, I'm going to have to 

681
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,600
say sell just because it's a 
different shoe. 

682
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,960
Not that I I hate it because I 
again, I'm almost at 100 miles. 

683
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,760
It's been a great shoe. 
It just I don't recognize it as 

684
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,280
a Nimbus, if that makes sense. 
It's funny because I do. 

685
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,000
I feel like it runs just fine at
easy shuffling paces. 

686
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,320
It's very protective under foot.
Like it? 

687
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,320
Totally does, it's just. 
I don't feel like it's lost its 

688
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,800
identity. 
I it's firm, it's more snappy 

689
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,760
and the Nibis traditionally has 
been softer. 

690
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,360
Now it's got liquid recent 
version, a little more bouncy 

691
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,000
and I like that with 27 because 
it kind of offset the weight for

692
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,080
me personally, but. 
Yeah, now it's lighter and more 

693
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,920
bouncy. 
It it I would say it's lighter 

694
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:13,480
and more snappy and stiff and 
the geometry is like not as it 

695
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,800
it for me it does fine. 
It's just a, it took a while for

696
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,880
it to break in more than 
previous models did. 

697
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,520
And I think previous ones are 
kind of better, like the easy 

698
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:27,920
day, the recovery and this, it 
still does that, but just does 

699
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,960
it differently that I don't know
if somebody different from me 

700
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,080
may like, or that that's kind of
what they're looking for. 

701
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:36,800
So I don't know. 
Yeah, I that's my honest 

702
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,719
opinion. 
So I like it. 

703
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,080
I just don't know. 
It's a. 

704
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,199
It's a different Nimbus than I'm
used to. 

705
00:34:43,159 --> 00:34:45,600
I'll weigh in at some point when
I run, but. 

706
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:46,880
No. 
Well, what about what about from

707
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,719
a walking perspective? 
Because you got to realize the 

708
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,600
Nimbus series probably more like
a lot like the Kiano, like the 

709
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:58,920
like many should, like the 1080 
or the the, the Vomero. 

710
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,880
These are all shoes that most 
people in the United States are 

711
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,320
going to buy for walking 
purposes, to be honest. 

712
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:09,440
Yeah, so far it's for me because
I haven't ran it. 

713
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,000
It feels like I'm wearing the 27
with the worst tongue. 

714
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,560
I I haven't know it from my 
perspective. 

715
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,120
They feel pretty similar to me 
walking as well. 

716
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,120
I I don't know if I noticed that
big of a difference walking it 

717
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:24,720
might. 
Seem like a pretty similar shoe,

718
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,640
no? 
Well, you do have a concussion. 

719
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,560
Maybe so. 
This is this is before the 

720
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:38,480
concussion, by the way, smiled. 
That's good. 

721
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,880
That's fair, but all the 
thoughts have happened before 

722
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,400
the concussion. 
I haven't forgotten anything to 

723
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,000
my knowledge. 
So that's also a good thing. 

724
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:50,320
So far they seem similar. 
I I will have to run in them at 

725
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,160
some point and see what kind of 
differences I notice. 

726
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:55,480
OK I've got another shoe, one 
for us. 

727
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,480
Buy or sell. 
The Saucony Endorphin Pro 5 is a

728
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,720
super shoe. 
Oh yeah. 

729
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:10,160
Yeah, I'm gonna buy it is you 
got power in each sheet on the 

730
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,280
top, power MPP on the bottom, 
super stiff carbon plate. 

731
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,160
It's in the low 7 oz. 
It's a super shoe. 

732
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,040
I think it's funny because the 
way they're marketing this shoe,

733
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:24,360
it's it's like they want this to
be what they're calling like a 

734
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,520
super shoe, like Workhorse, you 
know, where they're making a 

735
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:33,320
really durable shoe like this 
rubber honestly is I'm probably 

736
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:38,080
never going to kill this thing. 
And yeah, they made it pretty 

737
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,120
fortified. 
I know client doesn't agree, but

738
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,080
I actually found it to be pretty
darn stable for me. 

739
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,680
In the rear foot, yes. 
Not in the midfoot forefoot 

740
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,160
personally, but yeah, I. 
I thought it was fine I I didn't

741
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,360
have any issues actually running
in it today. 

742
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,520
Traction actually is good too. 
They use power track in this 

743
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,040
instead of the normal outsole 
that they were doing. 

744
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,000
So they put the trail rubber on 
it. 

745
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,160
And even with all those 
additions, it's still in the low

746
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,440
sevens. 
So it's like a it's like a 

747
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,400
beefed up super shoe. 
You know, like they want this to

748
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,920
kind of be the people super 
shoe, I think is kind of where 

749
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:12,520
they're going with it. 
Like a mix. 

750
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,560
Between how much super? 
Trainer Super racer. 

751
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,000
It's in the low twos I think. 
I let me look it up real quick. 

752
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,720
I hope they have to look it up 
to 250. 

753
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,400
You got it. 
I think it's 225, I believe. 

754
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:27,640
Oh, darn. 
I should have had that in my 

755
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:29,720
head. 
I didn't I wasn't doing a video 

756
00:37:29,720 --> 00:37:33,080
on it, so I didn't have all the 
specs and retail stuff. 

757
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,400
I mean I know it's like 4032 low
sevens, like I know that, but 

758
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,400
I'll check it out. 
House wise, I think it's 225 I 

759
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,920
think, which I actually don't 
think is unfair of a price. 

760
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,760
The only thing with this shoe 
that got me is I don't love the 

761
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:55,160
way the 240 on the very back 240
and I don't think that's awful. 

762
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,280
It depends on what you want, 
right? 

763
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:02,040
Like if you want, like if you're
I, I could see this being a 

764
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,000
daily trainer as well. 
Like I feel like I can go slow 

765
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,760
in this shoe way easier than I 
can in other super shoes. 

766
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:15,640
I mean that I really do. 
And like not everyone wants the 

767
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,800
fastest super shoe out there, 
right? 

768
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,040
Like you say it all the time, 
like there's like these shoes 

769
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,000
where they get really light, 
they get really bouncing, they 

770
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:24,800
get unstable, and they're not 
for everyone. 

771
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,040
Like this shoe. 
I feel like we'll speak to 

772
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,160
larger volumes of people. 
And at the price point, it's not

773
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,000
an awful price point, I don't 
think. 

774
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,920
I just don't think for me, it's 
not a shoe for me. 

775
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,560
Like I want to like it. 
I actually like the platform and

776
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:41,600
in general the upper fits pretty
well for me. 

777
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,880
It's just that heel. 
This gave me a blister on both 

778
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,200
of my Achilles earlier today and
I did a tempo run and a workout.

779
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,160
I actually was laughing. 
I don't know if the viewers 

780
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,640
noticed like I I started 
chuckling earlier in the podcast

781
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,680
for no reason and it was because
I popped both my blisters with 

782
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,600
respectively while we were on 
air. 

783
00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:03,280
I just was like, oh, whoops, OK.
I was like, what's that liquid 

784
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,600
running down my my heel? 
Oh yeah, OK. 

785
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,880
For the viewers that have made 
fun of me for picking my nose 

786
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,280
during previous podcasts, now 
you got that to add. 

787
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,520
Great. 
Yeah, don't worry, I won't put 

788
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:17,160
the dogs in, but. 
See, but you do buy that it's 

789
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,600
super shoe. 
I think the components and the 

790
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:21,680
weight and that kind of stuff 
that makes sense. 

791
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:22,800
Matt, what do you do? 
Let's say like. 

792
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,280
Let's say if you made that 
rubber and you took it and you 

793
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,840
made it like a lot slimmer and 
you made the shoe streamline and

794
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,160
the shoe would be 6.76 point 8 
oz something like that. 

795
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,320
You know, like I mean like it, 
it is a super shoe. 

796
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:36,600
They just beefed it up a little 
bit. 

797
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,280
What what was that? 
What was that? 

798
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,160
What you do? 
Something that our kids do so 

799
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,600
many, so many times a day. 
How was that 6? 

800
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:50,760
.76 point 7 ounces. 
OK. 

801
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:52,920
Moving forward. 
But I think it is. 

802
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,560
I do think it is. 
I think it's on the fortified 

803
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,280
side of super shoes, but I think
it still counts. 

804
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:05,240
Our our son comes down stairs or
like during the afternoon. 

805
00:40:05,240 --> 00:40:08,480
He's like mom dad, please tell 
me when it's six O 7. 

806
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,600
Oh no. 
Please tell me when it's six O 7

807
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,280
every day. 
He's a kindergartner. 

808
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:16,120
He's adorable. 
I I'm just enjoying every part 

809
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:20,200
of him, even if it's that. 
Matt, what about you? 

810
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:21,480
Buy or sell that, it's a super 
shoe. 

811
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,560
So. 
So by definition, OK, a super 

812
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:28,960
shoe, super racing shoe or super
trainer. 

813
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,160
It's got P bags that was. 
I'd say racing definition like 

814
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,120
super. 
She bags so I can play all the 

815
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:36,720
stuff we all have in your 
definition. 

816
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,720
I, I it is a super shoe. 
It is a super racing shoe. 

817
00:40:39,720 --> 00:40:42,800
It has all the components. 
It's got the geometry, it's got 

818
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,040
the the plate, even though if 
it's not my favorite plate based

819
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,640
on what I think they're doing 
with it, it does have a 

820
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:52,120
technically a super foam and it 
is not technically, but it has 

821
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,600
power and HG in the top. 
So yes, it is. 

822
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,880
I don't think it's as democratic
to use Connor's words from 

823
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,280
running warehouse when he was 
talking about previous versions.

824
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,360
It's to me, it's not it's not 
the same shoe. 

825
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,800
And I think part of where they 
were going with this, from what 

826
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,240
I've heard is that a lot of 
people buy the endorphin pro 4 

827
00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:16,000
or Dorphin Pro 3 as a like 
workout training shoe and then 

828
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,760
would use the Endorphin elite 
for the racing stuff, which kind

829
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:20,560
of makes sense to me. 
I would be a little cautious 

830
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,160
with running in a super racing 
show all the time. 

831
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:25,320
But if it's working for you, 
great. 

832
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,440
I, I know a lot of masters 
runners that are doing that 

833
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,640
because they love the fact that 
they actually have some pop in 

834
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:31,600
the legs. 
Again, it would be nice if you 

835
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,680
guys worked on some like 
strength training in biometrics,

836
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,160
but nobody wants to do that. 
So I, you know, it is what it 

837
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,320
is. 
Runners just want to run. 

838
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:45,680
But I, it is a racing shoe and 
to me actually it's, it's just, 

839
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,480
it's I, how do I say this? 
I feel like it's more of a 

840
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:54,800
racing shoe than the four where 
I really disliked the shoe. 

841
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,040
Running easy on it. 
It's not comfortable. 

842
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,640
It's really clumpy, it's really 
clunky. 

843
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,200
I did a long run in it this 
morning that sucked. 

844
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,360
It was just. 
And because I didn't run that 

845
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,000
fast, it was like. 
Not the concussion. 

846
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,000
You don't think it was 
concussion? 

847
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,480
I mean that that did not help 
that I went right into the run 

848
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,800
after that just. 
Concussion just keeps coming 

849
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,560
back around the circle. 
It's just making laps at this 

850
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,520
point. 
It might be that I'm, I'm pretty

851
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,680
exhausted even before that just 
for last like training and stuff

852
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,400
like that. 
And it might also be because I 

853
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,480
was an idiot and did a tempo run
on the treadmill last night 

854
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,800
before doing a workout long run 
with Regina this morning and 

855
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,480
she's pushing the paces and 
pushing the but I will say last 

856
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,720
night, this shoe, it's the 
fastest treadmill mile I've done

857
00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:39,440
and fastest mile I've done in a 
while where I think I usually do

858
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,440
this really quick if I'm trying 
to get something quick. 

859
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,880
Look, I'll do like a one mile 
warm up and then two mile at 

860
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,560
like a decent pace and a half 
mile to four mile cool down. 

861
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,800
And I did 530-9518. 
Actually it was like probably 

862
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,200
closer to 550, so I was putting 
the pace down in the shoe 

863
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,640
warming up in it did not feel 
good. 

864
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,160
It feels clunky. 
It doesn't feel good to get up 

865
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,120
on your forefoot, which is kind 
of my mechanics are changing a 

866
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,280
little bit based on my strength 
training and then pushing the 

867
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,400
stroller like I tend to get a 
little bit more of my forefoot. 

868
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,000
When I got back on my heel, it 
was definitely better. 

869
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,480
So I definitely understand who 
this is for. 

870
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,720
It's still it's not super 
cushioned though, like the last 

871
00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:17,080
version 4 foot stiff, but it 
still had some softness and some

872
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,640
bounce to it. 
This has like it's more 

873
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,160
aggressive where I if I was 
going to use this, I'd probably 

874
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:26,200
be more inclined to use it for 
5K10K, not half the full 

875
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,480
marathon, which is where the 
original to meet like the 

876
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,840
original, the not original 
version 4 had some versatility 

877
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,120
bits depending on where you'd 
broken in your mechanics and it 

878
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,800
was stable neutral. 
This one I agree with David. 

879
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,960
The heel is very nice. 
It's called the components we 

880
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,600
want, but there is something and
Andrew and I by the same thing, 

881
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:46,040
something that is just causing 
me to collapse aggressively at 

882
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,000
the midfoot forefront on both 
feet. 

883
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,800
And so yeah, my post tape is on 
fire. 

884
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,840
It feels exactly the same when I
as when I run in this shoe. 

885
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,480
And so, I don't know, fires. 
Well, yeah, the upper, yeah, but

886
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,720
I can see where they're going. 
It is definitely a racing shoe 

887
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,200
and I but I the problem is I 
think it's less. 

888
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,240
It's definitely not to me stable
neutral throughout the length of

889
00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:11,840
the shoe and I don't think it's 
as friendly anymore. 

890
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,880
It feels more aggressive to me, 
but it definitely see where and 

891
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:19,720
who they're marketing it to. 
I I I I get it. 

892
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,360
I'm just yeah, the traction is 
awesome, though. 

893
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:27,640
A lot of soccer knee shoes have 
terrible traction in wet 

894
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:29,960
environments in this crushed it 
this morning. 

895
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:34,160
We run in shampoo E State Park, 
which it just poured rain last 

896
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,280
night and traction was great. 
I didn't notice it at all. 

897
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:37,760
So I will give them credit. 
Traction's great. 

898
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,440
Yeah, that was a really long way
of saying I buy. 

899
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,120
It is definitely a reason. 
It's just not as comfortable as 

900
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:46,720
the last one or the one before 
that. 

901
00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:50,280
Great. 
All right, we're going to move 

902
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,120
from shoes and we're going to 
actually ask a personal buy or 

903
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,920
sell. 
So this next one is this is a 

904
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:02,120
personal for you decision. 
Buy or sell running a marathon 

905
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:09,640
or an ultra in 2026. 
Does this lock us in? 

906
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,680
I don't know, might people will 
know? 

907
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:18,520
Gross, gross to both of those. 
So buy or sell, Matt? 

908
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,560
Do I have to choose one or just 
say oh it's buy or sell? 

909
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,760
Fire or sell a marathon, either 
marathon and or ultra. 

910
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:26,680
Or Ultra? 
Yep. 

911
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:29,880
I'm a Can I go for six? 
Can I sell? 

912
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:31,960
I'm yeah, I'm a sell on that. 
I yeah, you. 

913
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,600
Can sell, you know. 
I all all power people running 

914
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:36,080
marathons and the ultra stuff 
right now. 

915
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,120
I just I have, I've said this 
before for me personally, I have

916
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,600
no interest in that. 
Like I speed and maintaining 

917
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,520
function really well as I age 
and I'm still, you know, I'm, I 

918
00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:49,280
just turned 35 not that long 
ago, so still pretty young, but 

919
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,080
also not immune to some of the 
musculoskeletal changes and I 

920
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:57,640
notice it. 
So my big goal is to really do 

921
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,280
well as a masters runner in like
the, you know, scene. 

922
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,000
I'm not that fast, but like I'd 
love to be a little bit 

923
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,480
competitive in like the 40s, 
fifties, 60s. 

924
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,680
Like a lot of people that I got 
to watch and got to treat and 

925
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:11,800
got to work with that have 
really inspired me over the 

926
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,440
years, especially in in Southern
California, a couple here in 

927
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:16,760
Oregon that have been like, 
well, I grew up watching these 

928
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,280
people and these they were more 
exciting to watch than the 

929
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,200
Olympic trials or the Olympics 
for me. 

930
00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:25,560
So I'm going to sell only 
because I have some concerns 

931
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:29,960
about longevity with the tissue 
recovery time, especially for 

932
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,320
marathon Ultra might be a little
bit different story based on the

933
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,120
very terrain if you're not doing
Rd. ultras. 

934
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,600
But yeah, I guess I'm a little 
bit nervous about those 

935
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:42,480
distances and the effects that 
they have on the musculoskeletal

936
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:46,560
system from some of my personal 
goals regard to speed and things

937
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:47,920
like that. 
So I'm a cell. 

938
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:52,000
But no, is that is that like 
anecdotal or are you looking at 

939
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:55,680
research that's saying like 
there is detrimental impact of I

940
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,000
I just want to make sure that 
people don't misinterpret what 

941
00:46:58,000 --> 00:46:58,880
you're saying. 
Yeah, if they're. 

942
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,320
Detrimental. 
Fair to say, like Klein runs a 

943
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:02,000
lot. 
Too. 

944
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,200
Yeah, I do run a lot, but. 
Like his mileage is pretty high,

945
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,960
like that's just what it is. 
So like you have to take that 

946
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,200
into consideration when you turn
it around within a week later. 

947
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:14,560
Most of it, most of it is 
anecdotal. 

948
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:16,960
There is still some evidence 
that I'm following and I think 

949
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,920
2026 may look different for me 
where I might pull my mileage 

950
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,560
back and start cross training 
more just good knowing that like

951
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:25,680
for example, osteoarthritis risk
running is not bad for your 

952
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:27,680
knees, but if you overdo 
anything, you're going to 

953
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,280
definitely have some issues. 
So going, hey, can I maybe pull 

954
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:34,240
this back to a more moderate 
mileage and start thinking about

955
00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:36,320
longevity? 
And the same thing with, for me,

956
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,800
race distance where I just, I 
hate the feeling after marathons

957
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,640
where I just can't walk. 
Like I want to be able to walk 

958
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:44,600
that. 
Kudos to everybody that does 

959
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:45,920
that. 
Like that's your badge of honor.

960
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,520
You crushed it out there. 
But I, I personally want to be 

961
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:50,720
able to walk. 
So it's more anecdotal with a 

962
00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:57,840
little bit of research influence
on the my own personal goals. 

963
00:47:57,920 --> 00:47:59,200
Other people may be very 
different. 

964
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,800
So yeah, let me clarify. 
Not, yeah, not so much health, 

965
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,680
but like, like for you to train 
for a marathon would be 

966
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:09,080
different stimuli than to 
achieve a 5K goal. 

967
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,080
Yeah, 5K. 
And that's just a different, 

968
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:13,040
different training regiment. 
Yeah. 

969
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,800
I, I what I didn't want people 
to hear is that like, running 

970
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:17,480
marathons is bad for you, right?
No. 

971
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:18,480
Not 40. 
No. 

972
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:20,400
Which I don't think there's any 
evidence, no. 

973
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,800
There's there's no evidence, but
from AI think from like a tendon

974
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,200
standpoint and from my own 
personal goals of what that 

975
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:27,960
want. 
That's not something that I 

976
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:30,960
personally am interested in, but
all kudos to people that that do

977
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:31,440
it. 
It's awesome. 

978
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:33,840
Yeah. 
All right. 

979
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,160
David, what about you? 
That's a tough one for me. 

980
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:40,520
I think I'm going to be a buy on
this one, the Ultra. 

981
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:42,120
Boy. 
Yeah, you got to do an ultra, 

982
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,120
dude. 
May or may not, I don't There 

983
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:48,240
actually is one I'm kind of 
buying, but I I don't know if I 

984
00:48:48,240 --> 00:48:53,400
would actually be ready in time 
and I'd be like more doing it to

985
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:55,920
do it. 
Like that's also there the shift

986
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,560
where like I'm not going to be 
trying to go run 220 something 

987
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:04,600
right now, but I didn't do a 
marathon this last year. 

988
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:08,320
I kind of I kind of wanted to. 
I just wasn't in shape at all. 

989
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:12,040
And it come December to do 1. 
So I I just kind of made a 

990
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,760
decision not to when I could 
have irresponsibly just gone and

991
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:19,480
done it, which it'll probably be
semi irresponsibly done if I do 

992
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:22,400
one this year. 
I'm just not, but I don't know, 

993
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,840
I feel like I'm, I'm kind of 
just going off vibes right now 

994
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:29,160
and just running when I want to 
and running I think a pretty 

995
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:30,400
healthy amount for me at the 
moment. 

996
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:33,360
But there's still every once in 
a while kind of a wanting to 

997
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,080
kind of go far. 
Sometimes it is nice to just 

998
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:38,520
going to be out there and when 
you are feeling good, you're 

999
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:40,320
just like, yeah, let's just keep
it going. 

1000
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:43,120
We'll just do a lap of the city 
or something like, I don't know.

1001
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:46,560
But it's kind of fun to do stuff
like that every once in a while.

1002
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:53,000
So I I could see it happening. 
I just don't, I, I don't see 

1003
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:57,760
myself training vigorously hard,
you know, to go run all out and 

1004
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:01,280
try and win something or place 
or, you know, get a PR down. 

1005
00:50:01,720 --> 00:50:03,840
Well, I guess if it's an Ultra 
it'll be a PR no matter what, 

1006
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:04,760
but. 
Yeah, it will be, yeah. 

1007
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:08,120
Unless you don't finish, I 
guess. 

1008
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:09,600
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1009
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:10,880
So we'll we'll see. 
I don't know. 

1010
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,760
Technically it'll it'll probably
like it'll probably like 

1011
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:15,760
farthest distance run even if 
you don't finish so. 

1012
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,840
Yeah, there's still, and it may 
not be a formal race like I 

1013
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,320
might just go run 26.21. 
I did that remember a few years 

1014
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,000
ago, several years ago I was 
like, you're not F it, let's do 

1015
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,120
it. 
I just want to did it. 

1016
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:29,720
So I don't know. 
I might do it. 

1017
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:31,120
We'll see every once in a while.
It's fun. 

1018
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,720
Sell for me and. 
I can walk after that because 

1019
00:50:34,720 --> 00:50:37,560
I'm not, I'm not shredding 
myself, right? 

1020
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:40,680
Like where is the difference? 
Depends. 

1021
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:42,120
Yeah, I think it depends. 
Yeah. 

1022
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:43,400
Have you seen people after an 
ultra? 

1023
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:45,280
No. 
No, but I'm saying a marathon 

1024
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:46,680
though. 
Like like if I ran a. 

1025
00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:49,680
Marathon. 
If I didn't go run five 30s, you

1026
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:51,520
know. 
Like, OK, that's fine. 

1027
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:53,200
Yeah, if I just. 
Go run 7 minute pace or 

1028
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,640
something like I'll be OK 
probably. 

1029
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:58,320
Nathan, what about you? 
Are we about to hear about a big

1030
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:01,560
goal here? 
I better be a sell if I am a buy

1031
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,120
on this. 
Oh my gosh, y'all need to like 

1032
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:08,840
hold me back so I'm a sell. 
I need to get through a year 

1033
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:13,120
healthy so that does not mean 
shooting for something I haven't

1034
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:15,600
done in a couple years. 
I'm going to get through this 

1035
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:20,720
year in a much more measured way
because we have good people on 

1036
00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:23,000
our team like Andrea forcing me 
to get a run coach. 

1037
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:27,120
Get the run coach Steve Nolan, 
he's on our Pioneers team. 

1038
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:31,080
He's pretty awesome, so I'm 
excited to work with him and I 

1039
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:35,760
will not be doing a marathon or 
ultra, so I'm selling Matt. 

1040
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:37,120
Also. 
Just one quick follow up, how 

1041
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:39,120
many miles per week are you? 
If you're comfortable sharing, 

1042
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:40,800
how many miles per week do you 
typically run? 

1043
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:46,440
Right now the average is 
somewhere usually like 60 to 65 

1044
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:47,440
in that. 
Rush. 

1045
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:48,560
That's actually lower than I 
think. 

1046
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:50,280
That's lower than you usually 
were too. 

1047
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:52,480
I thought you were like 70 to 
100. 

1048
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,160
Yeah, I was in the 70 to 100 
range for many years and I've 

1049
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,760
backed off from that. 
Like it's kind of weird. 

1050
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:01,200
We're like, I'll only run once a
day and like I'm totally fine 

1051
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,400
with it. 
So yeah, it definitely in a 

1052
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:05,440
really good space. 
It might also be that running 

1053
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:07,880
with the stroller is getting so 
hard I literally can only handle

1054
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:10,880
like I'm still dying. 
Running that like this is the 

1055
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:12,720
hardest I think I've ever run in
my life. 

1056
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:17,200
Like the highest quality of 65 
you could get doing workouts 

1057
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:21,160
with strollers. 
Regina was Regina was feeling so

1058
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:23,400
good this morning and she was 
like crushing to workout and 

1059
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:26,480
she's about ready to turn around
and I'm I'm in like the pain 

1060
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:28,800
cave and now I'm getting really 
grumpy and a little nauseous. 

1061
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,960
So I'm like, don't turn around. 
Focus on yourself. 

1062
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:38,520
Like, save yourself. 
So like, just yeah. 

1063
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:41,480
And Isabella is like, run Daddy,
go faster. 

1064
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:45,160
Like, this is not Daddy's. 
Daddy's dying. 

1065
00:52:45,720 --> 00:52:48,040
Daddy's having nausea. 
And I think he's gonna have a 

1066
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:50,920
credit event at the same time 
trying to run 640 pushing this 

1067
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:52,160
thing. 
So give me a please give me a 

1068
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:54,720
break. 
I think just knowing your 

1069
00:52:54,720 --> 00:52:57,800
mileage is helpful context for 
people if they're digesting what

1070
00:52:57,800 --> 00:52:58,760
you'd do all. 
Right. 

1071
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,480
I, I run a lot higher mileage 
than a lot of people do for 

1072
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,640
ultra marathons and and 
marathons. 

1073
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:06,800
I think the difference is that 
I'm pretty consistent and 

1074
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:11,320
usually run every day. 
So that's yeah. 

1075
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaking of running Double s, 
buy or sell running double s? 

1076
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:22,720
Bye. 
Can I clarify on how often or 

1077
00:53:22,720 --> 00:53:25,720
just in general? 
Just in general, yeah, it's 

1078
00:53:25,720 --> 00:53:29,920
fine. 
David Go yeah, I mean, I I think

1079
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:33,880
a more interesting buy sell 
would be a double threshold buy 

1080
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:35,560
sell I. 
Don't know about those anymore. 

1081
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:37,880
Yeah, exactly. 
So I think that's an more 

1082
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:40,400
interesting one, but I think. 
Although I'm, I'm. 

1083
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:43,480
Yeah, go ahead. 
But I think in general, for a 

1084
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,600
lot of people, that's one great 
way to help build volume. 

1085
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:50,600
You know, you lower you're able 
to recover, let's say if you 

1086
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:55,000
were to get 11 miles on the day 
and you ran six and five, you 

1087
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,200
know, like you can recover. 
I'm assuming you have enough 

1088
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:02,040
mileage built up at this point 
already to like handle like to 

1089
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:06,400
even think about doing double S.
But you can recover from that 6 

1090
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:08,920
so much faster than you can 
recover from just doing the 11. 

1091
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,800
And you can just do it in the 
morning, assuming you have the 

1092
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,640
time and you know the 
availability to do it. 

1093
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:17,360
Then you hit a 5 at the end of 
the day, maybe hit some strides,

1094
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:20,720
no harm, no foul. 
Come back the next day and 

1095
00:54:21,240 --> 00:54:23,320
actually recover pretty darn 
well from it. 

1096
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,880
I'm not saying to do that every 
day, you know, but usually this 

1097
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:29,520
is like a maybe a two time a 
week thing. 

1098
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,440
And this is usually if you're 
doing mileage at there's a 

1099
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,880
certain tipping point where you 
start thinking about this stuff 

1100
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:39,640
where you're like, OK, like, am 
I going to run over 10 miles a 

1101
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,120
day? 
Or am I going to break this up a

1102
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:44,600
little bit? 
And this is probably more like 

1103
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:46,960
we're kind of clients kind of at
that tipping point right now 

1104
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:51,880
where it's like it's usually in 
that upper 60s, kind of 60s to 

1105
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:55,400
80s, you know, where like you 
probably could do it off of 

1106
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,880
single runs. 
But like now it starts making 

1107
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:02,440
more sense to split things up 
from a longevity standpoint too,

1108
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:04,680
just so that you can recover. 
And actually, if you're doing 

1109
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:09,040
workouts like hit a workout 
adequately as well versus just 

1110
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:13,920
grinding it out on singles. 
But I've personally have kind of

1111
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:15,680
struggled with double S in the 
past. 

1112
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:18,080
I've struggled with high volume 
in general. 

1113
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:24,600
And I, I think with where I am 
in my life and when I was 

1114
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:27,320
training seriously a year ago, 
like I, I just had to do 

1115
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:30,040
singles. 
I, I just, it wasn't happening. 

1116
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:34,080
If I did a double in the evening
and then go wake up at 5:00 AM, 

1117
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:38,000
six AM the next morning and do 
it again, you know, I think you 

1118
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:39,920
have to ask yourself the 
question of whether not it's 

1119
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,040
appropriate for you. 
But I think given the right 

1120
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:45,280
context, I'm totally a buy. 
I think it's a great way to help

1121
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,960
build volume and aerobic 
capacity and recover from it. 

1122
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:51,680
I agree with a lot of what you 
said. 

1123
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:53,240
I think I'll I'll offer the 
counter. 

1124
00:55:53,240 --> 00:55:57,400
I'm going to say sell on it. 
Again, in our minds, we both 

1125
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:00,760
have a group of people that were
saying buy or sell for because 

1126
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,760
if, if we put person A up in 
front of us who's a brand new 

1127
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:06,840
runner and has never ran a 5K, 
we're not going to tell him to 

1128
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:09,720
go do double S. 
Like as you said, there's a 

1129
00:56:09,720 --> 00:56:12,760
certain threshold that people 
will meet with consistency and 

1130
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:14,680
that they're ready to handle 
that sort of thing. 

1131
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:18,760
I I think I say sell just 
because when I think about the 

1132
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:22,000
majority of the running 
population, I think there are 

1133
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:25,680
other things that people can do 
with their time that will get 

1134
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:28,600
them more benefit towards their 
training than running double S 

1135
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,400
whether that's other weight 
training. 

1136
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:37,120
Again, I have a specific group 
of people in my mind who have 

1137
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:40,480
certain amount of time 
restraints and have, you know, 

1138
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:43,240
certain amount of already 
training habits down. 

1139
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:46,360
I think that building habits 
towards the strength training in

1140
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:49,640
addition to your running, 
probably not even running every 

1141
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:53,760
day for most newer runners and 
recreational runners is going to

1142
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:57,960
be the most sustainable habits 
with busy lifestyle. 

1143
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:00,760
So I just, I don't know if the 
juice is worth the squeeze when 

1144
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:04,960
it comes to double S unless you 
are at again, a certain volume 

1145
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:08,280
of running where you are hitting
a really high mileage and you 

1146
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:11,520
got to split things up. 
Because I also think from a 

1147
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:14,440
systems perspective, if you're 
trying to run longer and you 

1148
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:19,200
never like tank the system at 
certain points, you're going to 

1149
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,000
need longer runs anyway. 
So I think you're going to need 

1150
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:23,600
the long run for a couple 
things. 

1151
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:27,240
Yeah, well, this is still under 
the assumption that they're 

1152
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,120
still doing a long run. 
Like this could be like a 

1153
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:32,800
Tuesday, Thursday thing and 
they're hitting 15 on Sunday. 

1154
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:36,080
Like it's like they can go far. 
It's not like they can't go far.

1155
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:39,560
But I like that you brought in 
the weightlifting aspect to it 

1156
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:41,400
because that's actually a common
structure. 

1157
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:44,640
You'll see in a lot of training 
plans where you'll do kind of 

1158
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:47,240
your base run in the morning and
then it'll be just kind of a 

1159
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:51,080
shake out like 3-4 miles and A, 
and a lift, you know, in the 

1160
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:53,360
evening or three to four miles 
and some stride. 

1161
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:56,000
Like usually like there's a 
little add on to that double 

1162
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:59,200
that won't beat you up too bad 
for the next day. 

1163
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:06,000
So I, I actually think I'm, I'm 
still a buy for sure, But I 

1164
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:08,160
think there's, if there's a time
and place and you got it, it's 

1165
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:10,360
got to be very individualized 
and whether or not that's going 

1166
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:13,160
to work for the person. 
If you're a professional runner 

1167
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:15,680
and you have all the time in the
world to do this stuff, like, 

1168
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:19,040
yeah, I mean, they're doing it. 
Almost all of them are if and if

1169
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:22,400
they're not running, if they're 
not doing double s from running 

1170
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:23,920
standpoint, they're probably 
cross training. 

1171
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:26,400
You know, like let's say they 
can't handle the mileage they're

1172
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:29,080
they're hitting, you know, 
either an elliptical or a bike 

1173
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:32,040
or the pool. 
Like, but I mean, at a certain 

1174
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:35,240
level you, you do have to get 
work in and you have to build 

1175
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:37,640
adaptations. 
And it's a great way to help 

1176
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:39,320
bridge that gap. 
But like you said, for the 

1177
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:42,280
majority of people the answer is
probably no. 

1178
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:45,040
But I but I think there's a 
tipping point and from a 

1179
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:46,680
conceptual standpoint, I'm still
a buy. 

1180
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:51,400
Yeah, Matt, what about you? 
I might. 

1181
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:53,440
It depends. 
I'm going to take that route and

1182
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:57,880
be that guy. 
I think for the runner that does

1183
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:00,960
well with high mileage and his 
appropriate has progressed 

1184
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:02,400
appropriately, recover fast 
enough. 

1185
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:05,400
I think a couple times a week I 
think it's appropriate. 

1186
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:07,880
Especially like timing wise, 
like if you got to get up really

1187
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:09,760
early and you can only have a 
couple miles in the morning, a 

1188
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:12,440
couple miles in the evening is a
great way to kind of fill that 

1189
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:15,080
up. 
Now having done that for years 

1190
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:17,560
and now slowly coming off it 
where I used to do double S 

1191
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:20,120
every day, I don't think I would
suggest that now. 

1192
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:23,600
Again, I'm coming from a 
longevity standpoint of going. 

1193
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:27,240
I think there are a couple days 
a week is great, but I think you

1194
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:30,680
should also think about it not 
just from a run, run, run, but 

1195
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:33,320
also a hey, what other 
beneficial things going to get a

1196
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,040
little bit of weight, you know, 
not a little bit of some 

1197
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:38,400
appropriate weight training 
because you can also over train 

1198
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:40,200
with your weight training. 
If you're running double S 

1199
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:42,720
everyday and then you add weight
training in there, that's a lot 

1200
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:44,640
of stuff to recover from. 
It would be probably better to 

1201
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:47,800
get a solid run at some point 
and then do some weight training

1202
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:53,320
as your second effort of the day
or do something non impact where

1203
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:54,960
you give your bones a little bit
more time to gut. 

1204
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:57,600
We're seeing, you know, despite 
all the Super shoes technology, 

1205
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:00,440
we're still seeing increasing 
rates of bone stress injuries 

1206
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:02,200
and tendinopathies and things 
like that. 

1207
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:05,760
So I would say a different 
stimulant stimulus that that 

1208
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:08,640
gives you a cardiovascular 
stimulus. 

1209
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:15,600
Sorry, a different don't say 
don't say it a difference. 

1210
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:19,800
I do that anyway. 
A different a a non impact. 

1211
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:25,680
Stimulus that still gives you 
cardiovascular adaptations. 

1212
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:29,360
I think it's a better option and
I think it I would at this point

1213
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:32,480
as I'm starting to learn like 
I'm learning how much I love the

1214
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:34,520
stairmaster. 
That thing sucks and it's really

1215
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:38,360
hard, but it's a really great 
tool that's non impact that 

1216
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:40,400
really your heart rate jumps up 
really, really quick. 

1217
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:42,560
It's really great. 
It's basically step UPS, which 

1218
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:45,560
we've talked about in previous 
episodes is a great exercise, if

1219
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:47,480
not strength. 
It'll it might build some 

1220
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:48,880
attestions. 
It's going to be more 

1221
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:52,040
cardiovascular, but it's still a
really awesome tool. 

1222
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:54,800
That might be a better thing, 
but that doesn't mean that 

1223
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:56,280
double S are completely off the 
table. 

1224
01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:59,200
I think for the advanced runner 
or someone that's kind of 

1225
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:02,920
looking, maybe they struggle 
with longer runs and they can't 

1226
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:05,320
do that that often, that might 
be a great tool. 

1227
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:07,800
I just wouldn't do it 
necessarily every day. 

1228
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:09,600
I would be strategic with how 
you do that. 

1229
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:13,880
So for the right person, yes, 
for the wrong person, no. 

1230
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:17,760
I think people that have trouble
recovering have a history of 

1231
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:21,000
bone stress injuries, you know, 
knowing the stuff we know and 

1232
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:23,200
that, and I really encourage 
you, all of you, if you haven't 

1233
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:26,280
listened to the episode with 
Rich Willie, it's awesome about 

1234
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:28,920
understanding how long does it 
take tissue to recover? 

1235
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:31,800
How much benefit do you actually
get from different kinds of 

1236
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:35,000
stimuli? 
I think there are certain people

1237
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:38,240
that I would definitely be a 
sell for this based on their 

1238
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:42,560
unique Physiology and other 
people in musculoskeletal 

1239
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:43,920
health. 
Other people I think it would 

1240
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:45,680
be. 
It's a great training tool, but 

1241
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:47,240
I I can't make a blanket 
statement. 

1242
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:48,920
I think it depends on the 
person. 

1243
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:51,200
We'll give you a pass on that 
one. 

1244
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:55,600
That's great. 
We have one more buy or sell for

1245
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:57,840
the night and. 
Oh no. 

1246
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:02,960
It is buy or sell. 
Runner's high is real. 

1247
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:05,840
Oh, that's not what I thought it
was going to be. 

1248
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:11,240
Oh, buyers, this sports team 
that bats doesn't watch. 

1249
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:12,680
Is it this pizza? 
Oh. 

1250
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:16,640
Man, I I thought it was going to
be along that yeah main as well.

1251
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:19,960
Sorry. 
I thought it was going to be 

1252
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:23,800
like some College Football 
Playoff thing or yeah, Anyways, 

1253
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:26,800
how about them Hoosiers? 
Yeah, that was crazy anyways. 

1254
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:30,520
Forward now what do you think of
that game? 

1255
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:36,680
I know what that was. 
I I, I finally finished one of 

1256
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:38,960
the studies I've been working on
from my PhD. 

1257
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:41,240
It took me like 6 months to 
finally finish writing this 

1258
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:43,720
stupid thing. 
I was writing that while that 

1259
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:45,880
game was on and I finally. 
Finished. 

1260
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:47,280
Great. 
That's great. 

1261
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:48,840
And my. 
Advisor from the game. 

1262
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:53,400
No, my thoughts are I sent it to
my old advisor who's now like, 

1263
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:56,880
you know, the colleague now and 
he didn't hate it and I was like

1264
01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:59,680
wow, either I'm getting better 
or he just didn't care. 

1265
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:05,760
So I'm hoping it's the first. 
Only a few comments, All right. 

1266
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:07,760
Yeah. 
It's a buy. 

1267
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:09,560
It happens. 
It's real. 

1268
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:11,760
Not all the time, but yeah. 
Not all the time. 

1269
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:13,120
Yeah, I'm not gonna say all the 
time. 

1270
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:16,200
Sometimes you're just can we? 
Sometimes you're in the pancake 

1271
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:18,000
and it sucks. 
Can we have an operational 

1272
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:20,520
definite? 
What is I know this like really 

1273
01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:21,720
dodges? 
Opiates. 

1274
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:23,880
Yeah, like what have they 
defined? 

1275
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:25,800
What a runner's hire? 
Is this just a term? 

1276
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:27,840
I've never looked this up. 
Is this just a term that we all 

1277
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:31,800
throw around as runners? 
OK, how's it just so I got a? 

1278
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:35,720
I got a little, I got interested
today because I saw this was on 

1279
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:39,240
the list and I was like, I 
haven't actually thought about 

1280
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:42,680
this like from a, from a science
perspective and like from what 

1281
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:45,280
actually is going on. 
So first statement, as you can 

1282
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:49,480
tell, like this is not our area 
of specialty, specialty like we 

1283
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:52,240
don't, we do, we don't, this is 
not our area. 

1284
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:57,760
But I, I did do a lit review and
read a systematic review on this

1285
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:02,120
concept that came out in 2022. 
So the leading concept was this 

1286
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:05,320
opioid release and that we have 
these endogenous opiates that we

1287
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:08,200
release and that gives you good 
feelings. 

1288
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:10,720
But the type of opiates that 
release, they actually found 

1289
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:13,240
that doesn't pass like the blood
brain barrier. 

1290
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:16,480
So it's not actually what causes
the runner's high if it's 

1291
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:23,640
happening the, and I wrote the 
terms down, but the, the current

1292
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:30,160
potential thing that is released
is endocannabinoids and it's 

1293
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:33,240
within the same realm as like 
cannabis, but it's ones that our

1294
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:36,480
own body creates. 
And the systematic review 

1295
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:40,200
basically found that 14 of the 
17, in 14 of the 17 studies, 

1296
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:47,040
these had elevated levels in, in
and during longer endurance 

1297
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:48,720
efforts. 
But in three of them, it 

1298
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:51,920
actually showed that, that the 
levels of this EC BS that they 

1299
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:54,560
decreased. 
But within the systematic 

1300
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:57,040
review, they basically found 
that it's more likely that this 

1301
01:04:57,040 --> 01:05:02,360
ECB will elevate during lab 
testing more so than real world 

1302
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:04,040
testing. 
So there's some methodological 

1303
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:06,720
issues. 
And so really in my mind, we 

1304
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:09,040
don't really know. 
And I think the other thing I 

1305
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:12,720
was thinking about outside of 
the study side of things was I 

1306
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:15,960
think this concept of runners 
high is a very subjective 

1307
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:20,920
experience, right? 
There's yeah, there's just like 

1308
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:24,240
it's, it's something that we 
feel and everyone may experience

1309
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:26,440
differently. 
Like I think about some people 

1310
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:29,720
might see it as like, oh, it's 
hard to breathe for the first a 

1311
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:32,360
little bit of a run and then my 
lungs just open up and I, my 

1312
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:33,920
stride opens and I feel really 
good. 

1313
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:36,040
That's just your body changing 
energy systems. 

1314
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:38,720
Like that's not a that's not a 
high, but that like feels good 

1315
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:40,720
because you can just get rhythm 
and you're just going. 

1316
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:42,680
It doesn't. 
Suck as much anymore. 

1317
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:46,200
Yeah, I'm looking at like 
alongside like the flow state 

1318
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:50,880
like, yeah, almost, yeah. 
And then like for me though, 

1319
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:55,760
like I finished the marathon and
there was a lot more going on 

1320
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:58,880
than just aerobic exercise. 
I finished that marathon in 

1321
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:02,560
Milwaukee, whatever year it was,
I'd like accomplish my goal. 

1322
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:05,840
And then I was just like crying.
And I like had no reason why I 

1323
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:07,960
was crying. 
And so like, is that the runner 

1324
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:09,440
side? 
But no, that was so much more 

1325
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:12,000
than just the just because of 
exercise. 

1326
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,760
So I think that there's a lack 
of, you know, I'd have to look 

1327
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:17,200
more and people can speak to 
this. 

1328
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:19,640
I think it's interesting. 
I think that our understanding 

1329
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:23,120
of the science behind what may 
create that euphoric sensation 

1330
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:28,320
when it comes to running and 
feeling really good is still 

1331
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:31,320
under investigation. 
It does not happen every time 

1332
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:34,440
like that. 
It might be that like, I just 

1333
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:36,400
felt awesome today. 
Like it can be one of those 

1334
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:39,880
things too. 
But what I think we do know are 

1335
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:44,200
some of the longer term positive
effects of, of exercise and like

1336
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:47,160
endurance exercise and running 
when it comes to things like 

1337
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:51,560
improving your working memory, 
improving your focus, improving 

1338
01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:54,640
your ability to switch tasks, 
which, you know, I have to beg 

1339
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:55,880
the difference. 
That's like the hardest thing 

1340
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:57,320
for me. 
So maybe I need to run more. 

1341
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:00,600
Yeah, it sucks. 
Switching from when you're not 

1342
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:02,520
running, Yeah. 
That's true. 

1343
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:07,240
Yeah, mood, mood going up and 
they even have like emotional 

1344
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:10,640
regulation is really improved 
and memories improved. 

1345
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:13,080
The hippocampus actually 
increases in volume. 

1346
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:18,600
Hippocampus is for is the like 
memory center and I I did y'all 

1347
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:23,640
learn about hippocampus like a 
hippo walking across campus like

1348
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:26,120
story memories. 
That was that's a great analogy.

1349
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:29,560
My my anatomy teacher in in 
undergrad. 

1350
01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:33,880
I will never forget my anatomy 
teacher in undergrad put up 

1351
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:37,800
hippo campus and then it had a 
hippo in college carrying a 

1352
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:41,360
backpack of memories. 
And so I'll never forget it 

1353
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:43,600
because of that. 
I'm not smart enough to just 

1354
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:46,800
remember things. 
David, that's not true. 

1355
01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:48,240
Well, that's. 
You know, I do feel bad 

1356
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:49,280
sometimes. 
When we have a. 

1357
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:51,640
Asking questions and they're 
like, oh, like how did you 

1358
01:07:51,640 --> 01:07:53,880
memorize this or like, did you 
have any acronyms? 

1359
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:57,840
I'm like, I, I just learned it. 
I, I'm sorry, I, I, I have no, 

1360
01:07:59,880 --> 01:08:01,360
I'm not the guy to ask. 
I just. 

1361
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:04,920
Just grinded it out. 
Yeah, it was the. 

1362
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:08,040
Same, I I wasn't one for 
acronyms every once in a while, 

1363
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:09,320
though I did like the zombie 
bit. 

1364
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:12,040
My cousin, you know, for the 
face. 

1365
01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:13,960
No. 
Oh, never mind. 

1366
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:17,319
OK, I that was. 
So long was very You're coming. 

1367
01:08:17,319 --> 01:08:20,200
At Western, so that must have 
missed your class apparently. 

1368
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:22,479
Yeah, or like or. 
Wasn't paying attention or like 

1369
01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:24,720
I was too busy running 120 miles
a week. 

1370
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:27,200
There's certain or Sid, PIP and 
Ted, right? 

1371
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:28,920
Like there's certain acronyms 
that I remember. 

1372
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:30,880
Tom, Dick and Harry. 
Yeah, that's the one. 

1373
01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:33,439
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
So, so long a pinky. 

1374
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:35,359
Here comes the thumb. 
Not that one. 

1375
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:38,560
You learned a. 
Different one, the only one I 

1376
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:41,279
can think about is salt for like
straightest anterior long 

1377
01:08:41,279 --> 01:08:43,279
thoracic is the only one that 
kind of stuck with me. 

1378
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:45,160
That I didn't. 
Know that one? 

1379
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:47,120
I never heard that one, but I 
did. 

1380
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:49,319
Just I just learned that. 
I just memorized it. 

1381
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:51,160
So. 
Anyway. 

1382
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:55,080
So I'll just wrap up. 
I will, I will actually say that

1383
01:08:55,080 --> 01:08:59,279
I buy Runner's High as a 
concept, but I, I don't know if 

1384
01:08:59,279 --> 01:09:04,880
I buy that it's maybe one 
specific type of experience, 

1385
01:09:05,080 --> 01:09:09,760
maybe tied to one specific 
chemical that's released or 

1386
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:12,960
whatever in our bodies. 
I think that it can happen for 

1387
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:14,880
lots of different reasons than 
any given day. 

1388
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:19,479
Do you think there could be like
some link to hysteria? 

1389
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:23,000
I'm being serious. 
When you get deep in the pain 

1390
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:25,520
cave, especially when you're 
doing like old presents that 

1391
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:28,120
people start seeing things, you 
know, like you start having an 

1392
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:29,880
out of body experience. 
They start crying when they 

1393
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:36,200
finish their marathon, Nate. 
People like level of 

1394
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:38,760
psychological age like in the 
literal sense of the word. 

1395
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:41,680
I'm not saying that like. 
Let me clarify it. 

1396
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:45,319
So are we talking about like 
the, because when you go into 

1397
01:09:45,319 --> 01:09:48,080
those, when you go into the 
marathon distance, you go to the

1398
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:50,399
ultra marathon distance, there's
a lot of like really intense 

1399
01:09:50,399 --> 01:09:52,640
things that are happening to 
your body, like brains and like 

1400
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:54,360
carbohydrate deficit. 
I think. 

1401
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:57,640
Getting an accumulation of a lot
of like, you know, different 

1402
01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:00,360
kinds of like, you know, 
proteins that have gotten broken

1403
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:02,160
down because your body's 
breaking down muscle tissue and 

1404
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:03,480
all kinds of stuff just to find 
energy. 

1405
01:10:03,480 --> 01:10:05,400
Keep going. 
Like there's all this salmon, 

1406
01:10:05,480 --> 01:10:07,480
oh, how many carbohydrates can 
you take an hour? 

1407
01:10:07,480 --> 01:10:09,400
It's like you're going to burn 
through muscle tissue and all 

1408
01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:12,240
kinds of stuff. 
And with muscle damage, Yeah, I 

1409
01:10:12,440 --> 01:10:13,600
I totally think there's some of 
that. 

1410
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:16,840
But are we talking about like 
that level or are we talking 

1411
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:19,880
about you're like, hey, went for
like a four to five mile run and

1412
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:22,200
I felt awesome today. 
Like which are we? 

1413
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:24,520
Is that this is all? 
Just a buy or sell. 

1414
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:28,600
Or is this all like varies? 
That's why we're talking about 

1415
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:31,000
this, because. 
Yeah, just that it exists. 

1416
01:10:31,280 --> 01:10:33,280
Yeah, it's. 
Existing I think. 

1417
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:37,120
I'm a sell for it being a 
specific like, oh, it's your 

1418
01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:40,080
endorphin. 
I think it's a complex 

1419
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:47,640
interaction of, of mental health
and training and expectations 

1420
01:10:47,640 --> 01:10:49,880
and things going in your life. 
And sometimes it's just an 

1421
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:51,520
exercise. 
We know that like especially 

1422
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:54,320
long term and even sometimes 
short term exercise can have a 

1423
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:57,800
really positive effect on, as 
Nate mentioned, mood. 

1424
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:00,280
There's some really cool stuff 
on chronic pain and, and like 

1425
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:02,280
long term exercise, stuff like 
that. 

1426
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:05,080
So I think that like long term, 
I think it is much better to be 

1427
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:07,480
exercising than not, especially 
from a mental health 

1428
01:11:07,480 --> 01:11:09,840
perspective. 
But in terms of like, you know, 

1429
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:12,560
runner's high, I think that 
might be more of an individual 

1430
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:13,920
thing. 
But I'm also speaking about 

1431
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:17,320
mechanisms that is not within my
area of specialty, to be very 

1432
01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:19,320
honest. 
So yeah, I don't know one. 1000%

1433
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:21,720
this is not our specialty. 
This is not my thing. 

1434
01:11:23,160 --> 01:11:24,160
No, sorry. 
Yeah. 

1435
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:27,880
So maybe someone will come on 
the show soon. 

1436
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:30,240
If you know anybody, drop it 
below and tell us who we should 

1437
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:31,920
get on here to talk about this. 
Yeah. 

1438
01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:35,200
All right. 
Well, thank you everybody for 

1439
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:37,560
joining us for the Ducks Running
podcast. 

1440
01:11:37,560 --> 01:11:40,400
Thank you to Rabbit for being 
our presenting partner. 

1441
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:44,440
And again, if you are looking to
get 10% off your Rabbit order, 

1442
01:11:44,440 --> 01:11:51,080
you can use the code DORJAN as 
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1443
01:11:51,080 --> 01:11:53,120
your order. 
Have a good evening everyone.