1 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,240 Hey there everybody, and welcome to the Docs Running podcast 2 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:14,800 where we, a group of doctors, physical therapy, discuss the 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:16,840 art and science of running in the stuff that we put on our 4 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,240 feet today. The round table consists of 5 00:00:19,240 --> 00:00:21,800 Doctor Matthew Klein and myself, Nathan Brown. 6 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:25,600 I'll be hosting today and we are here to do a this or that 7 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:26,960 episode. It's been a while since we've 8 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,000 done one of these. The premise of this or that 9 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,680 episode is that we take different ideas that have been 10 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,160 brought to us from you all and we pit them against each other. 11 00:00:35,160 --> 00:00:38,760 Everything from pitting 1 shoe against another shoe to pitting 12 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,800 different ideas regarding training philosophies or 13 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,040 training ideas. And today we just have a 14 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,600 smattering of topics. And these are always just fun 15 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,760 ways to discuss some more shallow and just superficial 16 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:54,000 topics and some deeper meaning topics as well. 17 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,640 So let's just kind of jump right into this bad boy. 18 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,440 We're going to just go right into this or that for the 19 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:02,680 subjective today. If you have a this or that that 20 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,600 you want us to talk about in the future, two things that you have 21 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,000 heard maybe contrary opinions about. 22 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,640 Tell us what you want us to get our take on it in the this or 23 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:13,080 that that we will do in the future. 24 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,040 You can comment those if you're on YouTube below. 25 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,600 And that will help us to continue to create conversations 26 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,200 that are meaningful to what you all the people who actually 27 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,040 listen to this stuff are caring about. 28 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,040 So here we go. We're going to start with a shoe 29 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,160 question, a shoe this or that and the shoe this or that that 30 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,280 is about a shoe that we have been testing recently and it's 31 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,600 the Newton carbon fiber shoe. And so the this and that is 32 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:41,040 Newton carbon fiber versus other moderately stacked racing shoes 33 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,160 with a carbon plate. This could include shoes like 34 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:46,400 the Deviate Nitro Elite one and two. 35 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:48,720 But Matt, what's your this or that? 36 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,920 That shoe? It will depend, can we clarify 37 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,880 what specifically in terms of use or just this or that, we're 38 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,840 just gonna go? Just just start raw and then we 39 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,800 can nuance it over time. So it would depend on the racer. 40 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,840 So if it was the the Deviate Nitro Elite one, I would pick 41 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,039 the Deviate Nitro Elite one. If it was Deviate Nitro Elite 2, 42 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,200 then this might be closer 'cause I just didn't get along as well 43 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,400 with the fit and right of a version two. 44 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,360 To be honest with you, I think the Newton CF is an interesting 45 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,280 shoe. It's a better like like almost 46 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,920 like a marathon ultra marathon shoe. 47 00:02:24,920 --> 00:02:27,000 I just could not get it to respond really quick. 48 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,720 But ironically, for easy runs is actually easier and up tempo 49 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,240 runs where it felt best. So if we're talking about all 50 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,440 out racing for most systems I do, which is going to be 5 KA 51 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,400 half marathon, I'm going to choose other stack like the more 52 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,520 moderate stack races just because they can move faster. 53 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,520 But if we're talking like, you know, Marathon Ultra, I might 54 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,640 choose ACF. It's not quite stable enough for 55 00:02:47,640 --> 00:02:49,800 me, but I might consider that. What about you? 56 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:54,960 Yeah, 'cause I'm with you. I think I overall would choose 57 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:56,920 other ones. I think the ones that pop into 58 00:02:56,920 --> 00:03:00,160 my head that I would do include. It's funny you say deviate 59 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,080 naturally one versus two. I also agree with that or I 60 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,360 would pick 1/2 sized UPS that the volume fits my foot. 61 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,800 Version 2, which I have here that they put a lot more toe 62 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,280 spring in there and the upper was just too tight. 63 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,960 So I couldn't get along with version 2 because of the change 64 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,120 in not a bad shoe just didn't work for me. 65 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,040 And so in that case, because of the fit, I would choose the 66 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,400 Newton CF all day long because it fits like a Newton and Newton 67 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:25,640 fit is amazing. And I'm not running right now 68 00:03:25,640 --> 00:03:28,920 that fast anyway. So when I've used it, it's been 69 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:33,440 for easier stuff and like my very slightly up tempo and I've 70 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:37,920 I've loved the feel of it and from a Newton shoe perspective, 71 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,360 it has the lugs and it still feels like a Newton, but they're 72 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:43,800 not as aggressive and it just feels really smooth. 73 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:44,960 So the cushioning is pretty good. 74 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,440 It's a firmer but responsive midsole. 75 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,400 So I I still liked it, but I think that I would choose the 76 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,600 deviate niche relate one over it. 77 00:03:53,600 --> 00:04:00,320 I also could see myself picking like the Takumi Sen over it as 78 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,640 well, so you'd you'd pick Takumi. 79 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,760 Sen yeah, just again, because of the distances that I focus on 80 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,280 over the marathon, I'd probably choose the Newton CF but for 81 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:13,640 like, you know, 5K10K, definitely the Takumi. 82 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:18,160 Sen just based on the weight. Speaking of Speaking of 5K10K, 83 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,120 you're racing a 5K tomorrow, right? 84 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:21,320 Yeah. We'll see how it goes. 85 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:25,400 Tomorrow is Memorial Day. What shoe are you going to race 86 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,480 in? And tell us about who you're 87 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:30,760 pushing along the way. Oh, so it's going to be my first 88 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,640 if, if they let me, my first official race with Isabella. 89 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,760 Just we're going to get out there and see what we can do 90 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:38,560 together. I'm going to use, I'm going to 91 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,680 be testing out the Fuel Glide 3. It's been really fun, a very 92 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,400 light stroller that's been really fun to get some fast 93 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,560 workouts on. So we'll get first official 94 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,680 race. I haven't decided to shoe yet. 95 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,560 Yeah, that's Thuli, right? Is it ultra glide or fuel glide? 96 00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:56,680 Am I pronouncing that wrong again? 97 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:01,520 Oh my gosh, is it Thuli or fuel? Oh, it's Thuli. 98 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,480 So you're gonna. Using, I'm gonna use the thing I 99 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,640 can't pronounce correctly. I'm gonna use the Thuli. 100 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,000 Yeah, that's good. The glide, is it Ultra Glide? 101 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:16,440 I should know, I've almost got 100 miles on it. 102 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:18,680 Yeah, so. You're racing in that. 103 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:20,000 Tomorrow I'm racing that with Isabella. 104 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,680 Tomorrow I at least know that I don't know what I don't know how 105 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:27,040 to pronounce it, but I know what it is the shoe choice. 106 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,800 I don't know. I actually was considered using 107 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:34,800 the I was considering using the alpha fly to compare it to the 108 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:39,280 Beta speed edge Paris, but I just found I I stand by the same 109 00:05:39,280 --> 00:05:41,840 in the Dave and I talked about where it I just can't get into 110 00:05:41,840 --> 00:05:45,080 like a 5K10K rhythm with the Alphafly 3. 111 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:50,000 So I'm right now going between the edge Paris, which is my try 112 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,800 to chew shoe that I have, you know, over 100 miles on. 113 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,520 I'm actually trying to figure out do I want to test the sky 114 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,920 Paris in a race effort and see how it does for 5K, but I 115 00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:03,040 haven't decided yet. It might be a a last minute 116 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,440 decision so I'll have to see. Cool, I'll have to see how it 117 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,880 how it shakes out. All right, let's move to the 118 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:10,720 next. This or that, and it's another 119 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,720 shoe one. Which is the best value, the 120 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:19,080 Triumph 22 or the Super Blast? So a little disclaimer when we 121 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,480 talked about this a few minutes before the podcast, I, it took 122 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:24,040 me a second to kind of process this. 123 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,920 I'm like, wait, why are we, why are we comparing these? 124 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,520 And they're like, oh, because they both have super foams. 125 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:33,160 The Triumph 22 is the first of the premium neutral shoes to 126 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,680 feature a completely super foam midsole. 127 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,320 Now it is tuned differently. So it's it's a little bit it's 128 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:43,640 going to be more focused on easier efforts and we have a 129 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:47,200 review out the Super blast again features that same. 130 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:48,400 It's like the Super training area. 131 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,960 So we got the premium neutral shoes becoming like pre becoming 132 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,560 like super trainers. And so that that gap might be 133 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,560 getting filled. I am still going to choose the 134 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,680 Super Blast. My reasoning is because it is 135 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:06,680 more versatile for me. I like lighter weight trainers. 136 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,640 I like shoes that I can do a lot with and not have to switch 137 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:13,200 between. The Tram 22 is a very cushioned 138 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,920 daily training shoe. It's got that super foam 139 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,080 midsole. It's not as soft as I would have 140 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,800 expected, but there is a lot of cushion under foot. 141 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,320 But it really does well for daily training and longer 142 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:27,680 efforts. It just doesn't have any 143 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,200 versatility in the faster stuff that I I personally found super 144 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,000 blast is kind of my do it all shoe and people that know I've 145 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:35,520 gotten like 200 plus miles. That's true. 146 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,400 So I would still choose the Super blast. 147 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:40,800 Which would you choose? Even at 40 bucks more. 148 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:45,040 Yes, even for the $40 more just cause the the dirt. 149 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,720 Both of these shoes have great durability, but the Super Blast 150 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:49,720 I'm going to trust a little bit more for that. 151 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,160 Yeah, yeah, I think this is an interesting one because the 152 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:57,520 Triumph 22, totally overhauled from the last version, has the 153 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,280 full length power and PB, but it is a special blend of power and 154 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:02,920 PB. We talked to Saucony's 155 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,120 development team about that to make sure that it's not the 156 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:09,560 exact same as the one that's in the Speed and the Pro for the 157 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,760 endorphin line, which makes sense because the you know, the 158 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:17,840 Triumph 22 comes in over 10 oz. So it's like 10 1/2 oz for the 159 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,000 Triumph 22. And whereas the Superblast is 160 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:25,440 coming in at 8 1/2 oz. So it's 2 oz lighter. 161 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,520 So you and it's noticeable on foot. 162 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,680 I'd say the other thing is the uppers are very different where 163 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,640 you can just feel like the upper for the Triumph 22 is thick, 164 00:08:33,799 --> 00:08:36,440 meant to be very durable, lasts a long time. 165 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,440 Not to say the Superblast isn't durable upper, but it's thin, 166 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,480 lightweight. So it's they're very, they are 167 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,920 tuned very differently, but they do both have a, a very thick 168 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,200 soul. I think the $40 difference is 169 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,600 where that value question comes. In Yeah, I'm. 170 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:53,840 Still where it's like, man, I'm still. 171 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:57,800 Gonna go super. I, I think for myself, I would 172 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,600 go Triumph 22 for value for for the running that I'm doing right 173 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,160 now. Like I, I like the Triumph 22 at 174 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,720 easier mile pace right now than super blast. 175 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,480 I think the Super blast base is wide enough where it gets a 176 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:12,840 little bit clunky for me, especially when I'm running 177 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,800 slower and not like getting up over the heel a little bit like 178 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:18,880 they, but they're similar construction wise. 179 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,880 Like they both have a very wide heel, very wide midfoot, very 180 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:28,840 wide forefoot. The the Triumph 22 has 40mm in 181 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,120 the heel. The Superblast like 45 182 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,040 millimeters, 45 1/2. So they're pretty similar in 183 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:40,000 terms of their total stack. The top 22 Triumph is 10mm drop, 184 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:42,320 whereas the Superblast is lower than that. 185 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,440 And and just because I I'm just pounding out those easy miles 186 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:51,160 right now, I think the Triumph 22 is my value to get it at 160, 187 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,640 then jumping up $40.00 for something a little more. 188 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,880 But I love the Super Blast too, like I've done, you know, 14 1/2 189 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,600 mile runs with tempo in there and I've loved it for that, but 190 00:10:01,680 --> 00:10:03,400 that's not the space that I'm in for running. 191 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,760 So value is one of those things that's going to come down to so 192 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,160 many factors for you as an individual. 193 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,040 And for me right now, the $40 that I could get in the 194 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,600 Superblast doesn't allow me to use it in ways that would 195 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,640 utilize those $40.00. So that's kind of where I stick 196 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:19,920 with the Triumph. I think the other thing with the 197 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:23,920 Triumph is the outsole, just like I think the durability wise 198 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:25,600 they're both going to be pretty similar to. 199 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,280 So it's not like you're going to like wear out the Triumph just 200 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,480 because it's 40 bucks cheaper. In fact, it might last longer, 201 00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:33,760 not sure yet. There's still to be determined. 202 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,640 I have like 50 miles on my Triumphs and I'm going to keep 203 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,520 trying to work my way up on those miles for a long term 204 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:40,640 review. Yeah. 205 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,200 And I totally agree with you that in terms of like, if you're 206 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,960 just doing easy mileage, the triumph is, is the clear winner. 207 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,800 I think for me doing it, if I, if, if we didn't have a shoe 208 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,680 websites and, and podcasts and what have you, we're testing 209 00:10:54,680 --> 00:10:56,840 stuff all the time. I would probably still choose 210 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,720 the superblast because it checks so many boxes of something. 211 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,760 You know, I, I, like I said, I like lightweight trainer. 212 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:04,760 So it's, it functions as a trainer for me. 213 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,640 It can go faster and it can do up tempo and long run stuff so 214 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:12,080 that it checks off enough boxes that it would actually replace 215 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,320 at least two shoes in a normal rotation. 216 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,840 So I probably have super laughs and a racing shoe instead of 217 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:23,000 having a recovery day shoe, a up tempo shoe and this or and you 218 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,880 know, so I think it can it can check those boxes. 219 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,560 But I totally get if you're not going into into the speeds and 220 00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:32,240 you're not needing that, the triumph is is probably a better 221 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,480 value. But for me personally, super 222 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,560 blast a better value just based on the versatility. 223 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,880 So let me zoom this out a little bit on this or that then. 224 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,000 So we've been talking specifically about Triumph 225 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,800 versus Super Blast, but what if we zoom this out to 226 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,400 categorically, we put the categories of like premium daily 227 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,120 Trainer value versus Super Trainer value. 228 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,760 From a cost perspective, you could probably say the 1:50 to 229 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,040 170 realm for the premium daily trainer, then you're looking at 230 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,360 200 plus for the Super. Trainer. 231 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:02,880 Yeah. Which ones? 232 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,720 Which ones higher value there? For me or for the population? 233 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:14,920 This is for you first I guess. So that's a great question in 234 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:22,680 terms of value if you're talking all of them together, I am going 235 00:12:22,680 --> 00:12:26,600 to say the premium neutral daily trainer. 236 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,880 And the reason for this is there are a couple super trainers and 237 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:35,480 I'm like, oh, absolutely the Neo Vista, the Super Blast are easy 238 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:36,760 picks where we definitely do this. 239 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:38,160 But there's a lot of other shoes. 240 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,280 There's super trainers that are in like 253 hundred that I I 241 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,640 just don't think they're worth that much and they don't have 242 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:46,320 that versatility to be hoping for. 243 00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:50,240 So on average, I would say no, just because it's not just 200, 244 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,440 it's two 5300 plus for some of these. 245 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,400 And I think the premium daily trainers can still get quite a 246 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:01,000 bit while being very specified of what they're meant to do. 247 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:07,000 So Triumph, Glycerin 1080, others like in that realm are 248 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,840 going to do Nimbus. It is a great shoe. 249 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,760 I think they're going to be a better value at that 160 range 250 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:14,440 and have the durability that we want. 251 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,320 Whereas I think the Super trainers, a lot of them are 252 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,920 still a little overpriced for what you get. 253 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:21,880 But that's my opinion. Not all of them. 254 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,880 Yeah, several of them. Yeah, I'm, I'm with you. 255 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:29,000 I think that the 50 to you know, $80.00 difference is, is big 256 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:30,680 enough where I don't think you get that much. 257 00:13:30,680 --> 00:13:35,000 I'd rather take the value and put that extra $5060 towards the 258 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:39,280 shoe that's going to be very distinct and race in versus 259 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,920 something that may might not give you the mileage that US 260 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,280 premium daily trainer could do. But there's some daily trainer 261 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,480 premium daily trainers that I don't like 'cause they're too 262 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,920 puffy, you know, they're too stuffed up with on the upper and 263 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,240 too cushioned on the midsole. But so it's hard to answer that 264 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,880 categorically, but I think that there's very real considerations 265 00:13:57,920 --> 00:13:59,120 there. All right, I'm going to, I'm 266 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:00,400 going to actually put you on the spot here. 267 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:01,840 This is not one that's on our list. 268 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:07,920 So you last week you recorded the episode with Mizuno. 269 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,280 If you haven't listened to it, I want you to jump back. 270 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,360 And then a few weeks ago we recorded an episode with David 271 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,920 talking about super trainers and their place and their value. 272 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:18,240 And we were trying to define them. 273 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:19,760 And just like what is a super trainer? 274 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:23,160 The lines are really blurry. We talked about that midsoles 275 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,760 being some sort of people based midsole was an important 276 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,720 component of a super trainer. So here's my buy. 277 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,400 And then you learned in the Mizuno episode that the Neo 278 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,600 Vista's midsole is EDA. So here's my question for you. 279 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:40,560 Buy or so not buy or sell this or that so that this is super 280 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,720 trainers need Peeba, that super trainers don't need Peeba. 281 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,840 I'm gonna have to say based on now my understanding of what you 282 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,800 can do with the midsole and what really, I thought I understood 283 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,120 this before and now I I have a better understanding. 284 00:14:55,640 --> 00:15:01,840 I will have to go with super trainers do not have to have a 285 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,920 Piva base midsole. And I think what I learned from 286 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:09,680 Mizuno and especially the stuff I learned off camera is there's 287 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,920 so much more you can do with how a shoe feels under foot. 288 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,280 When you really look at how the different factors are 289 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,600 interacting in terms of the combination of not just a plate 290 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,320 for stiffness, but modifying a plate so it actually adds to a 291 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,760 cushion feel. Modifying the foam so you really 292 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,160 blow it up so it works with the plate, making sure the geometry 293 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,840 is working with every everything working together. 294 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:36,160 I now am convinced you don't necessarily need to have Peeba, 295 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:41,360 but I think the Zuno has been sitting quietly in the back 296 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,880 working hard enough to go. You actually can do this. 297 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:48,640 So I do think the resiliency of the foam and or of the under 298 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,840 foot feel is still a really important factor. 299 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,520 You put a brick, a dead foam in there. 300 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,760 I don't think it counts, but it just made that equation more 301 00:15:57,760 --> 00:15:59,080 complex. But yeah, I'm going to sit 302 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:03,520 comfortably now knowing what I know, that it does not have to 303 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,160 have it. Which is not a complete 304 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,160 prerequisite. No, now it screws up everything, 305 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:09,200 I thought. So I have to go back to the 306 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,160 drawing board. Don't you love that we get to 307 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,320 change our minds because we can learn new information and grow 308 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,480 and change? Yeah, watch that episode as you 309 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:19,120 see my mind getting blown during it. 310 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:20,600 And like, instead of contributing, I'm just sitting 311 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,000 there like with my mouth hanging up and like. 312 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,680 It's amazing. All right, so let's move on to 313 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,280 our next this or that and it's we're sticking with the Triumph 314 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,520 22. So now it's the Triumph 22 315 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,880 versus the Triumph 21, which is a huge change in the update. 316 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,040 They went from power one plus, which has been around for many, 317 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,440 many editions of the Triumph. And now you're coming in with 318 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,920 that new blend of power on PB this or that. 319 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,360 So let me give a caveat first before my answer is I like what 320 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:54,640 they did with the Triumph 22. It appropriately distinguishes 321 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:58,880 it from the ride which the the base they are like the ride 21 322 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,400 or the Triumph 21 and the recent ride are like almost the same 323 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,319 shoe with like slight geometry changes. 324 00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:06,119 Like the weight was almost exactly the same. 325 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,400 There were both power and plus was like what? 326 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,920 What's really the difference? The upgrade to the 22 really The 327 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:17,400 Triumph 22 really makes it a premium daily neutral daily 328 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,079 trainer. It brings it back. 329 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,119 That said, I really enjoyed the Triumph 21. 330 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:24,760 It's got the durability it's got. 331 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,079 It would had that snap. I did workouts in it. 332 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,680 So my bias, being someone who likes a snappier shoe that could 333 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,600 do more is going to be the Triumph 21, although I very much 334 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,280 appreciate what was done with the Triumph 22. 335 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:41,080 Yeah, I'm a, I'm a hard triumph 22 under this or that. 336 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,440 I, I, I had this weird relationship with like the 337 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,800 'cause I tested the 18 through 21. 338 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,400 So I and I just had always had a weird relationship. 339 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:55,120 Like, I remember my first long run in the 18 and just feeling 340 00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:57,640 like I could never figure out how the cushioning worked with 341 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,000 how I hit the ground where it like felt firm, but it also felt 342 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,360 bouncy, but it also felt soft. It was a very bizarre thing. 343 00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:06,800 And it changed depending on how fast I was going. 344 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:11,000 And it never felt like, it felt like I wanted it to feel the 345 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,280 efforts that I was putting in. So like when I was putting in 346 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,760 more effort, I wanted to feel slightly, you know, firmer 347 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:18,280 bouncy. And I would get some of that 348 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:19,640 bouncy, but it almost would soften up. 349 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,360 And then when I'd go slow, it would be like almost too bouncy 350 00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:27,040 but firm at the same time. So it just never connected with 351 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:28,920 me. And I think that firmness too 352 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:33,000 always made the heel contact a little bit off, whereas the 22 353 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:38,320 oh and the mid midfoots really narrow in comparison to the 22 354 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:39,320 they really. Widened. 355 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:43,600 Yes, they did great job on. The 2022 and so I think that the 356 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,800 softer foam, which for me, I know you said it felt firmer 357 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,320 than you expected, but for me it was a, it's one of the soft 358 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:51,440 issues I've ran in this year. And we've always talked about 359 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,480 how our perception of softness is going to vary from person to 360 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,960 person. So we expect these differences 361 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,120 in opinion, but this has been one of the soft issues that I've 362 00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:03,560 ran in this year, especially the like first step in feel. 363 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:07,080 They really have a soft like foot bed in there and I think 364 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,040 that's softer nature and just how the cushioning works. 365 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:14,800 I can really settle in to just like cruise pace and easy pace 366 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,160 and recovery pace. And I feel like it does what 367 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,560 it's supposed to do. As a premium daily trainer, I 368 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,840 don't feel like I'm fighting with the foam at all. 369 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,000 So I'm, I'm a big fan of, of this update. 370 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,440 I think that the wider midfoot levels out some of that softness 371 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,920 in terms of stability. So I'm a, I'm a, I've been a 372 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,280 really big fan of this shoe. I plan to put more miles on it. 373 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,880 The one thing that I that people continually ask is we know, at 374 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,760 least we think we know that the endorphin shift is no longer, 375 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:44,440 they're not going to be updating that shoe. 376 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:46,480 And people are like, well, what's my replacement? 377 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,200 And I don't think the Triumph 22 is your replacement. 378 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,440 It's a very, it's much softer than the shift was and it 379 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,320 doesn't operate as much on that rocker as the shifted. 380 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,400 The shift was so rigid through that forefoot and had a pretty 381 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,520 like notable rocker. And the Triumph 22, though it 382 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,840 has some of a rocker, it does. That's not how the shoe runs and 383 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,400 like. In the clinical situations that 384 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,120 I would recommend it, it was for people who had limitations in 385 00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:15,720 dorsiflexion or in the first toe extension. 386 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,200 And so this does not fit that bill. 387 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,600 There's going to have to be. I'd say the thing that's closer 388 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,360 to it is they can borrow a pro from a rocker and stiffness 389 00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:28,280 perspective, but it has too much toe spring as compared to the 390 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,560 shift. So this isn't it yet. 391 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,320 I don't know if there's going to be something coming down the 392 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:36,560 pipeline that really, you know, takes over, but we'll find out 393 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:37,200 we'll. Find out. 394 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,080 I don't think we could I we have some suspicions, but. 395 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,760 Have some suspicions? We'll have to wait for Andrew 396 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:44,560 and Corey to tell us. Absolutely. 397 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,920 All right. So Are you ready to go on to the 398 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:50,280 next question here? Yes. 399 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:56,280 We are moving away from specific shoes, but this one is this or 400 00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:00,240 that. Supportive insoles or stability 401 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:04,000 shoes. I'm a hard person, like a hard 402 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,960 yes on stability shoes versus supportive insoles. 403 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,160 There is some bias here and hopefully I don't insult anyone 404 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,160 coming from the running store world. 405 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:19,040 There's companies out there that will try to upsell and add a 406 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,880 arch support in with another shoe. 407 00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:24,880 I understand some of that is sometimes the fit and ride of 408 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:26,720 his shoe might work better with a little more stability. 409 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:28,640 If it's like a neutral shoe, I, I totally get it. 410 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,160 Sometimes it is also to upsell things. 411 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,880 And I don't understand why you wouldn't just get a stability 412 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:39,720 shoe that has that in there that was designed with that in mind, 413 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:41,680 right? And I get, by the way, if you 414 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,480 have a specific prescribed orthotic that you need, like 415 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,880 that's where you know what makes sense, right? 416 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:49,520 Then you you might need something a little bit more 417 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:51,840 specific for some unique mechanics whose stability shoes 418 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,720 are typically made for the masses, which might work for 419 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,320 certain people versus you might need something a little bit more 420 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,640 specific. Most over the counter insoles 421 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,920 are based on the same thing. They're just general. 422 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:04,840 They're thrown out there and you hope it works for you. 423 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,240 So if you take that insole and you put it in a shoe, there's a 424 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,200 couple shoes that are actually made for this majority are 425 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:13,840 really not tested with this in mind. 426 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:15,960 So you don't know how this is going to interact. 427 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:20,400 Now, if you've always run with an insole and a shoe and you're 428 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,320 just used to that, awesome. But if you're not and you're 429 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,080 looking like, do I need something like that? 430 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,120 I'd rather get a stability shoe than a neutral shoe. 431 00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:32,680 Plus the extra 4060 bucks on top of that just to see 'cause you 432 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,880 don't really know as you go to your next shoe what might work 433 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,200 or how that might interact. So I am personally of the hey, 434 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,360 just do a stability shoe. The one exception to this would 435 00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:47,160 be if you like have some kind of injury and you'd benefit from a 436 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,880 little stability just for a little bit like if you have 437 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,560 plantar fasciitis frequently a a supportive insole can be a 438 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,560 really good Band-Aid while you let this thing heal, which can 439 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,640 sometimes take time. That makes sense. 440 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,280 OK, but it overarchingly, I would rather go with the 441 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:06,680 stability shoe that was designed with stability in mind than 442 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,680 adding something, adding a variable to something that that 443 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,480 wasn't how it was designed. And I we promise is going to 444 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,760 work or not 'cause other issues. Yeah, I'm not going to belabor 445 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,480 this when I'm on the exact same page as you. 446 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,240 And I think that there's enough out there to find what you need 447 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,600 even if it's not a true stability shoe. 448 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,200 But it falls into some of the categories of stable, neutral 449 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:29,560 and having some of those components which. 450 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,520 Check our guide. By the way, Bach has done a 451 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,280 great job with our our stability guide and talked about guide and 452 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:35,720 stuff like that. So please check that out. 453 00:23:36,120 --> 00:23:37,480 Absolutely. All right. 454 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,400 Our next one moves away from shoes a little bit for other 455 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,840 types of exercise, elliptic go or cycling. 456 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,520 You know, I got I got to say that I just passed on my 457 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,280 elliptic go to David this morning because my my wife and I 458 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,160 were going to be and Isabel are going to be moving. 459 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:57,000 Can't say where yet, but we the Elliptico has been a phenomenal 460 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,760 tool. I will probably buy another one 461 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,640 in the future when we finally settle down, but David and his 462 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,280 wife Amber needed a little bit more than I do and we'll give it 463 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:09,400 more use Elliptico hands down, right ability to stand, the 464 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,160 ability to like just get a phenomenal workout in. 465 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,520 I I cycling, I got to crank really hard to get even like my 466 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,480 heart rate up. The Elliptico is awesome, 467 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,240 especially the stationary trainer. 468 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,240 I really, really have enjoyed it as a cross training tool. 469 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,680 I haven't used as much as I should because I don't cross 470 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,480 train as much as I should, but Elliptico hands down. 471 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,720 And no, you just, you got one, you just did a review. 472 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,360 What do you think? Yeah, I've been, oh, I'm, I'm 473 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:36,240 hands down Elliptico too. And this is one of those things 474 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,160 that's so, you know, bias like Andrea would tell us. 475 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,400 Cycling, no doubt, right? And sorry Andrea, but cycling is 476 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,760 the worst. We don't know that. 477 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,240 Has she tried an elliptical? I'd be really curious for her 478 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:48,520 to. That's true. 479 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,440 Maybe she just hasn't experienced the light. 480 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,560 No, but so I, I say that as somebody who's been able to test 481 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,360 one from a company that sent it to me to review it. 482 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,480 The other thing is that elliptical cost $3000. 483 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,760 That's your like your entry point is 2500 for their gear 3 484 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:08,160 geared elliptical, $3000 for the eight gear elliptical. 485 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,600 You can get a bike for much, much, much, much more affordable 486 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,200 prices than that. And so that's where I think like 487 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,720 if I was pushed against a wall and I had to make a purchase, I 488 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,640 would buy a bike and I would go get it fitted well for myself. 489 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,560 And the reason why is because I don't use it a lot anyway I 490 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,200 like. I would rather run and I only 491 00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:35,280 revert to the elliptic go or a cycle for the most part when I'm 492 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,160 hurt. Now the elliptic go because I 493 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,840 can get my heart rate up. I have used it to increase my 494 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,840 mileage as I've been coming back from my foot injury in addition 495 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,200 to just when I can't run. So it's been a really nice 496 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,480 alternative tool and I use it riding around like our 497 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,040 neighbourhood with our kids and stuff. 498 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,560 And I might get weird looks cause the Elliptico does look 499 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,760 distinct. But I, I would choose the 500 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,640 Elliptico hands down if, if money was not a factor, if money 501 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,360 came in to be a decision, part of the decision, I would 502 00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:06,880 probably go with a bike and then work with Andrea to get it fit 503 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,960 well so that I don't have as many problems. 504 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,000 Because biking is bothersome for me and has been for a long time, 505 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,800 mainly because of my, my hip pathologies that I've talked 506 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,800 about on the podcast previously. So go ahead. 507 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:24,160 I would still choose the Elliptico even as a backup tool 508 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,640 because you're going to get, I think you're going to get your 509 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:31,080 money's worth out of it now. Again, my Elliptico came over 10 510 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,960 years ago from winning it at my first PT conference. 511 00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:36,200 So again, I guess I, you know, there's some bias. 512 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,960 Didn't pay for it, but you can also get bikes that are more way 513 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:41,680 more expensive than that. Oh yeah, no. 514 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:46,120 Doubt and in terms of the ability like when I'm hurt the 515 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,200 it's for me it's worth a little, you know couple extra dollars 516 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,800 knowing I have something there consistently that I really enjoy 517 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,360 and can trust can ease myself and still get a good workout if 518 00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:59,360 an injury happening. So that kind of like that, that 519 00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:02,640 confidence is something that I like just because you get to 520 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,440 stand up still, you don't have to worry as much about hip 521 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,080 pathology because you're not in as deep a hip flexion and you 522 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,040 still your heart rate. That thing will work you. 523 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:12,640 It does. It's so fun too. 524 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,800 I do not have fun biking. I have fun on the elliptical, 525 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,160 which is weird to say, but I do. I definitely when I got hurt 526 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,600 this last time with my toe, I definitely overtrained. 527 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,960 Like I get on there twice a day and do intervals and I would 528 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:25,760 just be. Wrecked. 529 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,640 And I was like, I got to back off with cross training because 530 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,400 this is I'm. Exhausted. 531 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,200 Yeah, sorry. Awesome. 532 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:37,680 All right, So next to this or that, this would be a handheld 533 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,520 water bottle while you run, and that is a hydration vest. 534 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:46,960 So water bottle, hydration vest. I again bias the water bottle I 535 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,320 like better. I know you can carry more with 536 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:54,640 the vest, I just don't like anything on me so and especially 537 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,000 for the distances I do, I'd rather I'd rather have the water 538 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,360 bottle and I'm also used to a bottle more. 539 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:05,520 I'm I'm hydration vest, even even when I don't need it. 540 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,560 I I like ran with my bottle the other day. 541 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,560 I was just out for an hour, but I had a bottle with me and I 542 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,480 would I was running. I'm like, I wish I'd just had my 543 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,720 vest on here. And I think it's again, the 544 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,000 optics of like you're going for a run for an hour. 545 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,200 You don't need a hydration vest. You're not doing an ultra 546 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,400 marathon, but it's just for me, I the, so the one, my two 547 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,360 favorites is the Nathan Pinnacle vest that I have. 548 00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:31,840 I've used that thing a ton. I actually gave it to a it's 549 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,160 yeah, it's just bias because of the brand. 550 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,120 It actually just because it has my name down the back. 551 00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:38,960 It's super weird. But I actually gave it to my 552 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,480 friend who's an ultra runner and I miss it because it's a really 553 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,400 great vest. So he has been using it and uses 554 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,160 it regularly and he's got 100K coming up. 555 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,920 And then the other one that I've been using is the is a camelback 556 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,400 one that I've been running with. It's just comfortable. 557 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,280 But again, when I have them sitting on my torso, I actually 558 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,120 feel it like it's less abrasive than it is when I'm carrying a 559 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,280 full water bottle that's sloshing around. 560 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,080 So I like the soft flax flasks 'cause they don't have any slosh 561 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:09,040 in them. Slosh. 562 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,600 Is that the right word? Sloshing around? 563 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,280 Is that the word? Where is I feel like the bottle 564 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,800 asymmetrical? It's got a little bit of that 565 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,360 gurgling of the water. I don't know. 566 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:24,440 That's my preference, but that's where I go and I'm OK if I'm not 567 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,440 even going on that long of a run and just clicking it on and 568 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,920 heading out the door. All right, back to shoes, Mach 6 569 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,320 versus Topo Cyclone 2. Dude. 570 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,040 That's a hard. This is a hard question. 571 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:44,080 These are both great shoes. The Mach 6 is by far my favorite 572 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:48,320 Mach despite the fact it feels like it's like bit short so I I 573 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,520 kind of want to try a 10 1/2 at some point to see. 574 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:55,680 But I've loved the Mach 6, even even though against Eva midsole 575 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:57,920 it's still really snapping your foot. 576 00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,720 Really really light. It's super critical. 577 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,800 Eva all. Right, yeah, can stop using that 578 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,280 now. So the the Tobo Cyclone is also 579 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,800 a great shoe just because it's got full length PBA. 580 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,440 It's it can very much function as a lightweight. 581 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,720 It was our favorite lightweight trainer of 2023 and it also can 582 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,760 very easily function as a racing flat. 583 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,440 I am going to have to give the nod to the Topo Cyclone two 584 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,200 because of the toe box. That's something that is really 585 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,960 important to me. The mock, I really like it. 586 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,480 It's just that short fit, even though I've done a 15 mile long 587 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,360 run in that shoe and it didn't bug me too much. 588 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,840 I'm going to have to go with topo because of the the toe box 589 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,160 and the way it's set up. I can hear you there my I picked 590 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:47,920 the mock 6 for myself. I agree with you. 591 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:53,960 It's my favorite mock to date. And the foam is not, it's still 592 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,600 a little bit on the firmer end. But I would also say the Cyclone 593 00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,720 Two's foam is slightly on the firmer end too. 594 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,960 Like they don't either of them run super soft. 595 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,000 I think they both respond pretty well. 596 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:08,400 The Cyclone two is 6.7 oz or 5.5 oz for women. 597 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,520 And then the Mach 6 is 7.4 oz or 6.7 oz. 598 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,280 So you gain a little bit of weight with the Mach, but I 599 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,680 think that the durability elements are there on the mock a 600 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,920 little bit more too. The rubber is a little bit 601 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,480 thicker. The upper is going to last a 602 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,840 long time. The foam is just really nice and 603 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,160 I I don't see that thing degrading at all. 604 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,480 I I've just been a big fan. The one thing I agree with you 605 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,000 when I've actually when I first put on the mock and I've been 606 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,400 very sensitive besides, I was like the volume in this Mach 6 607 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,000 is unnecessarily low. It did feel like it opened up 608 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,840 over the first even just first run, but I have to wear my thin 609 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,040 socks. I cannot wear my winter socks. 610 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,600 That is a downfall. If they gave that shoe in a 611 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,120 wide, it would be maybe my favorite trainer of this year or 612 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:56,040 in contention for it because of how well the like geometry and 613 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,120 just the flow for a daily trainer. 614 00:31:58,120 --> 00:31:59,760 I just I actually love running in it. 615 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,360 If the volume was a little bit bigger, I think that that would 616 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:07,200 that would bring it to the, the top or at least near the top of 617 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,520 my list. But I I'm a big fan of the Mach 618 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:11,560 6. Super fun. 619 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,720 And the Topocyclone 2's toe spring was a little bit too much 620 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,040 for me too. I just couldn't, I felt like I 621 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,240 couldn't run easy in it and I can run easy and a little bit 622 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,160 harder in the Mach 6. What do you think? 623 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:24,720 I, I would say, I would agree with you that if they increase 624 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,480 the volume and a little bit of that width in the four foot for 625 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,240 the Mach, it would, it would be the winner of this two because 626 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,080 it is also stable neutrals that work super well for my 627 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,440 mechanics. It's just that toe box that's 628 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,120 just a little too much for me. All right, here we go, our next 629 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,000 one, this or that, and it's about ultra running. 630 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:48,720 This is ultra and I want a 0mm drop ultra or that I like their 631 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,560 new 4mm drop ultra options. So two of them that I have here 632 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,520 with me. One is the experience forward 633 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,800 FWD. This is their road 4mm drop. 634 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,560 And then I also have the Experience Wild, which is their 635 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,600 trail 4mm drop. And then they have a bunch of 636 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,080 their zero drop stuff. What do you think? 637 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,720 Yeah, so this is ultra the stability version of their their 638 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,440 new experience 4mm job lineup. I've really enjoyed it. 639 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,320 I've weirdly enough the experience forward and this feel 640 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,840 dramatically different foam wise like the experience forward. 641 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,720 I could not run slow in this one. 642 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,160 I could not run slow enough in it was like purely recovery. 643 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:32,520 I don't know what happened, but it's I yeah, I'm I'm liking it. 644 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:37,200 So question was. Do you this is stick with their? 645 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,960 They should stick with their 0mm drop, or you prefer you prefer 646 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,200 their 0mm drop line, or you prefer their 4mm drop. 647 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:45,960 Line I I really like the diversity. 648 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,880 I'm going to be honest that for years, even when I was first 649 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,200 trying ultra in college. Which one? 650 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,480 If I had to choose one, Yeah, yeah, yeah. 651 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:57,960 Yeah, of with what they have right now. 652 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,040 Yeah. So your the question was, so are 653 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,720 we saying with what they have now or like let's say they take 654 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,600 the Vanish Carbon 2 and do a 4mm drop version of that? 655 00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:12,800 No, with what they have. I am going to have to, even 656 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,000 though I, if you're going to force me into this, I, I really 657 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:17,719 like some of the stuff they have now. 658 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,360 I appreciate the formula drop stuff. 659 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:23,199 I'm glad they're doing it, but I'm going to have to go with the 660 00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:26,239 purists. I really am enjoying I some of 661 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,400 the stuff that they're doing now in terms of like the Vanish 662 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,520 Carbon 2, even though the durability is not great, I still 663 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,800 am loving that shoe. I'm really enjoying some of the 664 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,920 stuff they've done, like the why am I can. 665 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,639 I think the the Escalante four has been a really great shoe 666 00:34:42,639 --> 00:34:45,800 That's I was really afraid to run in, but my Achilles has been 667 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,679 doing great. So I I will have to stay with 668 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,800 the tried and true ultra 0mm drop for the moment. 669 00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:56,000 Yeah, actually I, I'm with you too. 670 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,520 I, I like what they're doing with the 4mm drop stuff. 671 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,560 I think it should continue. I think it needs to be refined a 672 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,880 little bit further before it's before it would win for me and 673 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,440 it and it would if the shoes felt very similar to me, I would 674 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,360 go with the formula drop. I run better in with some drop 675 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,520 in the shoe anyway. But what I have found with their 676 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,120 4mm drop line so far and the ones that I've tested is you can 677 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:20,920 see if you're watching on YouTube, there's a pretty 678 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,640 aggressive toe spring on every single one of these models and 679 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,040 the foam that they're using, especially in the forward you're 680 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:29,360 talking about the foam difference. 681 00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:35,480 It feels like the experience forward is really firm, like 682 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,120 really firm. Like it's just kind of a brick 683 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,720 that operates off of the rocker that's on the shoe. 684 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,880 And so I think that if they refine the foam because there 685 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,960 are softer foams that exist in their 0 millimeter drops, you 686 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,120 say maybe it's the same foam and it just doesn't, I don't know, 687 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:52,600 something feels different with it. 688 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,520 I think if they refine that I but I would enjoy the formula 689 00:35:56,720 --> 00:35:59,440 millimeter drop more. Similarly on the trails like 690 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:04,880 this is probably my favorite one the experience wild, but Even 691 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:09,160 so, I think that the fit of the Lone Peak will always win for 692 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,280 me. That Lone peak I would take it 693 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,960 hiking every single day and I just don't have the versatility 694 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,920 in the wild to like really enjoy this for a nice long hike. 695 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,560 I would rather have the Lone Peak out there and then also be 696 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,920 able to go on a easy trail run, which is how I do trails anyway. 697 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:28,520 I don't bust out on trails. So for me, it's the 0mm drop. 698 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,800 But if we again broaden this question and think about the 699 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,200 idea of a brand like Ultra, but there's other brands who have 700 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,680 kind of a niche philosophy. Newton would be one of them, 701 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,240 Topo is one of them. Are you fans of them sticking to 702 00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:47,040 their very strict gut or do you see diversifying is a good 703 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,800 thing? I think it depends on what thing 704 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,800 you're talking about. I think for Topo when they 705 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,160 diversified and they start coming out with some Max cushion 706 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,160 trainers, I think they executed those very well while sticking 707 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,160 to the Topo toe box and some of that kind of stuff there. 708 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:02,960 So I think that was really great. 709 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,080 Now if Topo came out with a 10mm drop shoe, I'd be like I I I'm 710 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,160 not sure what you're doing, how they would execute that, if the 711 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,800 geometry would work. But I think diversifying to a 712 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:16,520 degree is good, but not losing the your what you what you do 713 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,280 well. Yeah, I think it's a fine line 714 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,560 where you don't want them. Like I think what Ultra did is 715 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:26,840 very in line with who they are. It doesn't feel like a divergent 716 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:31,880 from that to me at least. But you know, I, I see other 717 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,600 companies like Topo and talking with them, they have no plans 718 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:37,360 for any sort of carbon in their shoes. 719 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,960 And I like that too. Like I like that they diversify 720 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,440 their drops. I like that they diversify the 721 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,400 types of foams that they use, but they don't want to add 722 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,720 stiffening agents because their founder is somebody who has a 723 00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:54,680 niche philosophy about what good running means and what good 724 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:56,640 running form is and that kind of stuff. 725 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:01,040 And companies should should have an identity. 726 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:05,040 And if you change too much and just bend and sway to the pushes 727 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,760 of the market in the time and you lose yourself, There's not 728 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,240 really anything to latch onto from a brand like a consumer 729 00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:14,240 perspective or like as a fan, like I like when there's 730 00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:16,280 something to believe in with a company. 731 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:20,720 So some diversity is good. Too much would just make me like 732 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:22,560 not really understand who you are. 733 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,480 And I don't think that the diversity we're seeing with 734 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,560 Ultra makes me lose who they are. 735 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,120 It's like I know exactly who you are and this is consistent and I 736 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,200 would just like it to see you refined a little bit to be even 737 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:38,520 more performance oriented for the type of fit and the type of 738 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,720 foam underneath. All right. 739 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,960 Next question is should we worry about shoe width more or should 740 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,200 we worry about shoe volume more? You're going to take it that 741 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,600 way? Oh gosh, yeah. 742 00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:53,640 That's going to depend on the person, right? 743 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,200 You're going to make. I you got to answer the 744 00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,920 question, I'm just the I'm just the messenger. 745 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,400 I'm going to, I'm going to make an attempt at this. 746 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,360 I think the more I've learned, the more I'd pay a little bit 747 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:10,600 more attention to volume because when you have a little extra 748 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,240 volume, you can actually get a little bit more width from that 749 00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:16,160 because volume is thinking about, not because width is, is 750 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:20,520 very, you know, single singular plane volume starts adding 751 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,800 everything in there. And not everybody has the same 752 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:27,200 shaped feet in terms of terms of all the different planes and not 753 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,200 just how wide thing is, that can really change things. 754 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,120 A lot of people that have lots of trouble with low volume shoes 755 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,080 that are really compressed in the top of their foot, 756 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,320 irritating a lot of those pore extensor tendons. 757 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,240 So it's very common. So I if you're going to really 758 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,840 like put me on the spot, I'm going to say shoe volume is 759 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,600 probably the more important thing consider at the moment, 760 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,120 given that it can't that can actually encompass width. 761 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,040 Yeah, I think I'm with you. I'd say shoe volume for sure. 762 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,400 Not that width isn't important, but volume allows you to think 763 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,440 not just with because there's been, I mean, just to keep 764 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,400 talking about ultra. What I found lately is that a 765 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:07,120 lot of their shoes keep the wider anatomically shaped toe 766 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,240 box, but they have a lower volume like the Escalante and 767 00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:13,200 the the Tauren was one of those for me, the most recent Tauren 768 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:17,720 where I it, it didn't feel like a wider toe box because it was 769 00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:20,600 so tight on the top of my foot. We talked about the. 770 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:24,120 Mach 6, that one we, I mentioned volume and that's because it was 771 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:25,840 pushing down on the top of my foot. 772 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,040 I think that it's important that if you have width, great, But if 773 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,680 you have a taller foot or any more girth in your foot, it's 774 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,720 not going to be comfortable no matter how wide you make it, if 775 00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:37,320 it's going to be pushing down on the top. 776 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:41,720 So I'm a big fan of considering all three components of the 777 00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:44,840 amount of room in the toe box being the width, the height and 778 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,360 the length. I think that volume is a really 779 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,880 helpful component. But obviously if you just take 780 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,320 that the other way and say, hey, we'll make it super skinny, but 781 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,320 we'll make it so tall so we have this huge volume. 782 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,760 Obviously that's not how feet work, so we don't want to do 783 00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:58,880 that either. I will also say just to add on 784 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:03,360 to this is that again, the that can make or break shoes, even 785 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,880 the ones that are anatomic, where if it is the low enough 786 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,160 volume, you can have the widest toe box, but it's gonna feel 787 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:09,520 tapered. And I've had that happen with 788 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,320 several shoes recently. Like the Escalante is a great 789 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,080 shoe. It fits almost like a sneaker 790 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,680 because it's got a much lower volume, just like you were 791 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,560 talking about the 880 from New Balance. 792 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,440 Even though it looks like and it should feel like it has a wide 793 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,600 toe box, it actually cause the volume is so low, it actually 794 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,840 fits more tapered and and not narrow, but just kind of more 795 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,400 snug than I would expect based on the look and how my foot 796 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,120 should be fitting in the shoe. So yeah, I definitely. 797 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,920 The same is true for for new balances trail models that I've 798 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,560 tested recently. So the here the new hero shoe 799 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:48,760 and the SC trail, those two have such a low volume that the tow 800 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,880 guard hits my hits my toes and it's like this. 801 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,440 I can't run in this. So I think that's again, volume 802 00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,640 matters because if they just increased the vamp, increased 803 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:02,280 the vamp or the height of the shoe, it would be way more 804 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,120 runnable and much more room for the for the feet. 805 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,640 So all right, here's the next one. 806 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:14,240 Would you rather this or that healthy for a year with no 807 00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:18,160 remarkable results in your running, like no PRS or 808 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:22,840 anything, or race APR in your favorite distance race but 809 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:24,920 followed by an injury that takes you out for a bit? 810 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,760 This is a very easy decision for me as healthy for a year. 811 00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,240 I think the the injury and getting knocked out of the sport 812 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:33,560 isn't worth it to me when it comes. 813 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:38,160 I mean, my, my PhD is looking at like longevity, right? 814 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,720 And like, how do we keep moving? So I'm going to choose the 815 00:42:40,720 --> 00:42:43,040 healthy for a year. Just that consistency does a lot 816 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,920 of good. Yeah, I'm, I'm obviously, I'm 817 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,040 obviously the healthy for a year because this situation happened 818 00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:54,600 to me last year where I raised APR and then I got hurt for a 819 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:55,840 long time. It turned out. 820 00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,120 So it's a no brainer for me, even if I had the worst races of 821 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,040 my life and I could keep running and keep training. 822 00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:03,680 Keep. It's all about process. 823 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:08,280 You know, I'm, I'm a I'm a big component of thinking about the 824 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:12,080 process of anything like with PT students, it's the process of 825 00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:14,560 learning and developing into the physical therapist you want to 826 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:16,360 be as runners. It's the process of becoming the 827 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,320 runner we want to be. It's not about race day with any 828 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:23,520 of the athletes that I coach. We got to work away from like 829 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:27,720 results oriented motivation because I can't guarantee 830 00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:30,320 results. I can only guarantee what we do 831 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,040 in the moment. So I'm a big and you can't even 832 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,120 guarantee that. Way less guaranteed than we 833 00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:39,160 think, but process over results for me. 834 00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,520 Who put that question in there? I don't know, it hit me close to 835 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,880 holding like. Scared me like doing fine right 836 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:48,360 now it's. Fine. 837 00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:52,000 All right. Next one is would you rather 838 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:56,520 group run or run solo? Does group run if if Regina and 839 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,200 Isabella does that count or is that solo run? 840 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,320 That's answered how you want. We can talk about it. 841 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:07,840 So I the majority of my training, I prefer just Regina 842 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,360 and Isabella just because it allows us to really focus well. 843 00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,000 And that's kind of how we met. We're very focused, especially 844 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,000 with her stuff of being an elite athlete, having to get the stuff 845 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:17,920 down, not kind of not being able to wait for people. 846 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:22,240 I I appreciate a group run every once in a while and I think I 847 00:44:22,240 --> 00:44:24,000 would appreciate a very small group. 848 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:28,600 For me, a very large group gets very distracting pulls away from 849 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:33,240 what I really get out of runs, which is the ability to recover, 850 00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,480 communicate one-on-one with someone like my wife, which is 851 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,280 where we talk so much. And Isabella is probably going 852 00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,640 to be talking because she is on runs with us so much and all she 853 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:44,040 hears is US talking and communicating and processing. 854 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:45,840 It's very important part of relationship. 855 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,840 So I think it's it's kind of hard to let other people in that 856 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,000 too much just because it's really important to us. 857 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,120 But I can appreciate a group on every once in a while. 858 00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,440 But I'm going to have to go for the majority of the runs, the 859 00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:00,280 solo Regina, Isabella and I not saying I won't roll with 860 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,080 anybody, just kind of the. Purpose. 861 00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,560 I lean towards group runs. I run with people probably at 862 00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:10,600 least twice a week and it's my time to connect with friends, 863 00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:14,960 you know, as you know, with having like hanging out with 864 00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:20,000 Gianna and having kids and my job and just all the other parts 865 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,080 of life that we care about more. For me, like more than running. 866 00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:24,760 There are a lot of other things that are more important than 867 00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,600 running. It's helpful for me to be able 868 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,960 to package like my important friendships with my passion and 869 00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:31,800 running. So it brings me some life 870 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,360 balance. Plus, I've just had so many good 871 00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:38,160 conversations with friends on runs because it's like there's 872 00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,040 something about when you're running. 873 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:41,960 I was talking to a friend, a friend brought this up. 874 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,840 He's like, when I'm running with somebody and we're not like 875 00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:46,880 sitting across the table and looking at each other, Sometimes 876 00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,440 it's easier to start just airing out some of those things that 877 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,240 I'm really processing through in life, Whereas there's it just 878 00:45:53,240 --> 00:45:56,240 like alleviate some of the pressure of the conversation. 879 00:45:56,240 --> 00:45:59,960 And so I've had really meaningful talks with people on 880 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,600 runs and really gotten to know people and became really close 881 00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:04,280 with them. So I'm a group run guy. 882 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,400 I love my I love my solo runs. Like, don't get me wrong, like 883 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,760 being out by myself and just taking time to be alone, but I 884 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,920 love the opportunity to run with people, especially like good 885 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,960 friends or those who I'll get to know as good friends. 886 00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:19,280 All right, we got a couple more here. 887 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:25,800 Would you rather gels for the inrun nutrition or high caloric 888 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,160 drinks? That's a great question. 889 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:31,160 I will say that I am just experimenting with high caloric 890 00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,680 drinks right now. I think a lot of them maybe not, 891 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,200 but there's a company called, I think it's like Hydrate or 892 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:42,240 something like 369, which has been great, really light flavor 893 00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:45,640 and pretty much all runs Reggie and I will have a bottle of that 894 00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:47,280 ready to go no matter what the distance. 895 00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:52,680 And if it's done well, I really enjoy the high calorie drinks. 896 00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,400 It's the first time I've ever done that because for years I've 897 00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:57,880 been a, a gel person. I can appreciate the gels, but 898 00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,920 the problem with gels is that you, you don't get a lot of the 899 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:03,080 fluid. I know there's some one of the 900 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,120 like the, the one, the isotonic ones or whatever that come with 901 00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:09,280 that. I I still prefer the the the if 902 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,880 you do it well, a high calorie drink to be honest now. 903 00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:16,040 Yeah, I'm as somebody who likes to wear hydration vests. 904 00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,640 I also love high calorie drinks as well because I just have 905 00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,880 water in one flask and I've got the high calorie drink in the 906 00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,680 other. And the ones that I've loved the 907 00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:31,400 most are Morton 360. I think that the taste is it 908 00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:33,360 just tastes a little bit like sugar water. 909 00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,520 So I'm a he I that's the one I've used probably the most. 910 00:47:37,720 --> 00:47:40,920 The other two that I've used a lot is Tailwind Endurance fuel. 911 00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:45,640 And so the Tailwind Endurance, they have a naked flavor that's 912 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,600 my favorite. It has like nothing to it. 913 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,040 And then the other one that I've used, but it hasn't been for a 914 00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,200 little while is super fuel, which they call it high 915 00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:57,440 something, they call it something different now, but 916 00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,520 from scratch that used to be called super fuel. 917 00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,360 That's the last time I used it. Those are the three that I use 918 00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,760 and I, I would just rather have those, but I always have a 919 00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,360 couple gels on the side. If I'm feeling like a little bit 920 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,560 of a deficit, I just use those as like supplementary to the 921 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:17,000 continual kind of calories that I'm getting from the fluid. 922 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,080 And I am not, I have not dialed in my nutrition because I 923 00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:22,400 haven't had to in a long time because I haven't been training 924 00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:24,080 for marathon. But what were we going to say, 925 00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:26,000 Matt? I was going to say the Scratch 926 00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:30,400 Orange hydration is phenomenal. It's a it's a really good 927 00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,000 flavor. Yeah, cool. 928 00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:35,160 All right. Last one for the day. 929 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:41,080 This or that to help you choose your shoes, running shoe store 930 00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,000 or reading run shoe reviews online. 931 00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:46,440 Can you go first for once? I've been thinking about this 932 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,240 all the time. I don't know how to answer. 933 00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,720 This, This is why I like to host, because then I don't have 934 00:48:51,720 --> 00:48:53,720 to be the first one to speak, but I will talk. 935 00:48:53,720 --> 00:48:58,840 I will talk first. My vote is, is definitely run 936 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,400 store. It's even coming from us as 937 00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:02,960 people who write running shoe reviews. 938 00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:07,120 I, I think that if you're able to develop a relationship with a 939 00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:10,800 running shoe store where you can do exactly what we tell people 940 00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,200 to do, which is try out a bunch of shoes, see which one actually 941 00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:18,880 works for you, and then go based off of what you like and modify 942 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:22,040 what you want from there. Like people who have if, I guess 943 00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,880 I'm giving some caveats. If you are going to a 944 00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,160 knowledgeable and like running shoe store that has a lot of 945 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:32,240 integrity and knowledge, that's, that's where I would go 100% of 946 00:49:32,240 --> 00:49:34,320 the time. They let you run in the shoes to 947 00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,920 try them out. You can develop relationships to 948 00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:38,880 help that. They can help you understand 949 00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:42,440 your body a little bit more. Running shoe store all the way. 950 00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:45,640 That said, it doesn't mean that running shoe reviews are out the 951 00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,760 window because you can utilize a run shoe store, but go in with 952 00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:51,240 some ideas based on reviews that you've read on different 953 00:49:51,240 --> 00:49:53,960 people's websites. And I think the run shoe review 954 00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,800 sites are helpful for people like in our community where the 955 00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,320 closest run shoe store is over an hour away. 956 00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:03,800 And if you want to go to a run specialty store, again, it's not 957 00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:05,600 just like you can just go check it out for the day. 958 00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:09,960 It's going to be a whole event. And so for that kind of category 959 00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,720 of person, it might make the most sense to read a bunch of 960 00:50:12,720 --> 00:50:16,120 running shoe reviews and then go to the local shoe store that 961 00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,280 doesn't necessarily have that maybe the knowledge that some 962 00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:21,640 run specialty stores has, but they do have a lot of the 963 00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:24,720 product that they have. And like we have a Rogan's in 964 00:50:24,720 --> 00:50:26,680 town. Go try out a bunch of shoes at 965 00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:30,360 Rogan's and see which one kind of works for you and just use 966 00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:34,080 the running shoe review sites as an on ramp there. 967 00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:37,800 So that's that's my answer is run shoe stores would be my pick 968 00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:39,280 if you've got a good one in town. 969 00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,600 I would I would definitely agree with you that if it's a good one 970 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,200 with good knowledgeable people that really take the time to 971 00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:49,040 understand you and know their footwear stuff, I would very 972 00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,520 much prefer running stores and you'd be able to go there in 973 00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,840 person tries to fought because try stuff on because no matter 974 00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:59,440 what, and I say this as as two, the two of us and our entire 975 00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:02,560 team has a running shoe website. The goal of this website isn't 976 00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,880 to sell you a shoe. It's to help you learn what 977 00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:10,360 works best for you and hopefully help you make better decision so 978 00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:12,600 that you don't get injured, you can enjoy running and really not 979 00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:15,040 have to think about this as much. 980 00:51:15,240 --> 00:51:17,600 So the best place to do that, we know this from the evidence, is 981 00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:19,720 you're not going to know what shoe really fits you until you 982 00:51:19,720 --> 00:51:21,640 get it on your feet. And you can't really do that 983 00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,000 outside of like a lot of run shoe stores. 984 00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:27,120 So if you can go in and help someone guide you, great. 985 00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:31,160 So I think a lot of people that are new to running run shoe 986 00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:34,320 store, hands down, if you don't have a lot of experience trying 987 00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,480 different running shoes, you should go to run store or at 988 00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:39,840 least the closest store you can to try to get some idea like 989 00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:43,760 even getting your feet in there. Once you're more experienced. 990 00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:47,280 And maybe if a store isn't close to you and you know who has 991 00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:49,880 similar opinions to you or like who has a similar foot or 992 00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,680 mechanics to you, then I might say run shoe reviews. 993 00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:55,800 But because there's a degree of separation there, I'm going to 994 00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,200 agree that I think a good assuming they're not trying to 995 00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:00,320 sell you something, they're trying to give you an experience 996 00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:02,480 and have you get you in a good shoe, right? 997 00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:03,760 It's going to be a different opinion. 998 00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,200 If they're trying to upsell you, add a bunch of unnecessary stuff 999 00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:08,800 on there and like get you into shoe just because they're trying 1000 00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:10,360 to get it out the door, that's a different story. 1001 00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:14,320 But if you have a good trustworthy run store place, I 1002 00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,720 would I would hands down do that. 1003 00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,920 Suggest that one. Yeah, and you know, I, I love 1004 00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,000 the opportunity. Like I was at Blue Ox Running 1005 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:28,360 Company in Eau Claire, WI this weekend or on Friday and I got 1006 00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:30,280 to meet the owners and they were just really. 1007 00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:31,960 And I was just there meeting a friend for lunch. 1008 00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,120 And then I was like, I know there's a running store here. 1009 00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,160 And I had a friend who runs here with me now who used to work 1010 00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:38,520 there. So I just wanted to see the 1011 00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:42,120 store and they were just really good people. 1012 00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:44,480 And that's the other fun part about local running stores is 1013 00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,440 like you get to like be part of that impact on your community. 1014 00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:51,120 Obviously the downfall is like they can't offer some of these 1015 00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:55,040 crazy discounts you can find on some on some websites sometimes. 1016 00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:59,360 And that's a, that's a real decision that, you know, you 1017 00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:01,920 have to make in terms of where you're at and what you can 1018 00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:03,160 afford and all that kind of stuff. 1019 00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,760 But if you're in a place that you can afford to support the 1020 00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,040 running store, they bring a lot of knowledge. 1021 00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:11,280 And usually running stores bring community to a place they like 1022 00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,840 create a culture for runners of all. 1023 00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:18,880 Like Blue Ox has a running club for people of any sort of, you 1024 00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,280 know, skill level. They have a bunch of walkers who 1025 00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:24,480 join their club and everything. So I'm a big fan of supporting 1026 00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:26,520 running shoe stores in any way that you can. 1027 00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:29,440 And now I just have to try to convince someone to open one in 1028 00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:31,760 Stevens Point. So come on over. 1029 00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:35,800 We have lots of runners here. But I know that's probably not 1030 00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:39,520 as easy of a task as it is, but I have, I have so many visions. 1031 00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:41,040 I'm a dreamer. So I have this dream for a 1032 00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:45,800 running shoe store that exists that also kind of has APT room 1033 00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:48,400 that any PT could just use at any time. 1034 00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:50,640 You know, they can rent out the space and just treat runners 1035 00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,680 through it. There's probably some form of a 1036 00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:55,640 model that would help offset the cost for the space and the 1037 00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,600 inventory that you have to have. I, I would love to find a 1038 00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:02,880 creative solution to getting a running shoe store to a smaller 1039 00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:06,520 community that might not have the volume to support that sort 1040 00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:08,280 of industry. You know, because we're only a 1041 00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:11,720 town of, you know, 20 to 30,000 people around here. 1042 00:54:11,720 --> 00:54:14,720 So, and then there's, you know, half hour any direction before 1043 00:54:14,720 --> 00:54:17,920 you reach the next town and the next town will be smaller than 1044 00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:20,960 this one. So well, except for Wausau, it's 1045 00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:23,880 a little bit bigger. Anyway, thank you all for 1046 00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:25,360 joining for this. You have one more thing. 1047 00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:29,160 I, I just want to shout out the, the cost question is definitely 1048 00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:31,120 it's going to depend on who you are and not everybody has a 1049 00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:34,680 financial means. I used to work at foot traffic 1050 00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:39,000 in Portland, OR and then just recently when I was visiting 1051 00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,160 Oregon, stopped by Portland running company to get a pair of 1052 00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:45,560 corros, not a pair to get a, a new corros because my old one 1053 00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:47,200 was dying. And I said, you know what, I 1054 00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:49,960 could, you know, go through the hassle of seeing if Nathan might 1055 00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:51,880 be able to get me one or that might not happen. 1056 00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:54,360 So, you know, I'm just going to go, you know, splurge and spend 1057 00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:55,680 this. And I got recognized at the 1058 00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:57,960 store actually by several PT students who were working there. 1059 00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:00,280 And it was so cool. I didn't know. 1060 00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:02,920 They like kind of looking at me and they're like, hey, are you, 1061 00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:03,960 man? I'm like, yeah. 1062 00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:07,560 Like it was really, it was really, it was a huge honor to 1063 00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:09,720 get recognized that and to have them tell me that they 1064 00:55:09,720 --> 00:55:11,640 appreciate the stuff. And they were going and 1065 00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:14,440 presenting at the Oregon Physical Therapy Association on 1066 00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:17,120 footwear. So you you do build a lot of 1067 00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:19,080 relationships. And it was very cool. 1068 00:55:19,240 --> 00:55:23,920 And I, I watched their talk or heard I didn't didn't watch it, 1069 00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:26,680 but I looked through and saw some of the transcript stuff on 1070 00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:29,120 it and it was really cool. When I say good job, do you guys 1071 00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:30,640 know who you are? And it was you did awesome. 1072 00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:33,720 So it was really cool. So relationships are important. 1073 00:55:33,720 --> 00:55:36,720 And I will acknowledge that that you can't quite get that with, I 1074 00:55:36,720 --> 00:55:41,960 mean, I mean, not it's not the same with with online run to 1075 00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:44,360 your viewers as it is in person. Get another person from your 1076 00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:46,760 community who's who knows what they're doing and trying to 1077 00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:48,520 contribute. So shout out. 1078 00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:51,400 Yeah. You know, as much as we create 1079 00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:54,600 an online community with Doctors of Running or any other, any 1080 00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:58,440 other online platform creates like this online community, you, 1081 00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:02,840 you don't get to run side by side and then talk about that 1082 00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:06,160 thing that happened that would never come up online. 1083 00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:10,000 You know, that only happens in in the side by side in life. 1084 00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:14,040 So find those people, keep running with them. 1085 00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:18,200 Well, thank you all for joining for that, for this, this or that 1086 00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:20,600 episode. And if you again have things 1087 00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:23,280 that you want us to talk about for our next this or that, drop 1088 00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:26,080 them in the comments on YouTube or send us an e-mail at 1089 00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:29,800 docs.ofrunning@gmail.com. You can always follow what we're 1090 00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:33,120 doing on our website at docsofrunning.com or on our 1091 00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:36,680 Instagram and other social media platforms at Docks of Running. 1092 00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:39,960 I also should have asked you to do this earlier because at this 1093 00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:41,680 point most people are checked out. 1094 00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:44,600 But if you have it in you to take 10 seconds to leave a 1095 00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:48,200 review on the podcast platform, whatever you listen on, that 1096 00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:51,640 really helps the podcast grow. So we hope you all have a great 1097 00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:53,360 day and we'll talk to you next time.