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Hey everyone, and welcome to the
Doctors of Running Podcast, 

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where we, a group of doctors of 
physical therapy, talk about the

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art and the science of the stuff
that we put on our feet. 

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Today, we're going to do a 
mailbag episode talking about 

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some reader questions that were 
sent in, and so hopefully we can

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create some good information for
those looking for things and 

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provide some of that same 
information to all of you. 

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The other thing we got to start 
with, obviously, is our 

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in-for-testing. 
But then first, we got to talk 

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about, obviously, Rabbit, who we
want to thank very much for 

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being the big partner and 
sponsor of the Doctors of 

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Running podcast. 
If you want to get a discount 

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10% off your entire order of $50
or more, you can use our new 

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code DORSEPT10 or DORSEPT10 in 
the link, not link, or on their 

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website. 
Because again, we really like 

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the stuff. 
We're out all the time. 

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Durability is really awesome. 
I've got, for those who are 

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listening and can't see, got the
DOR branded shirt, which has 

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been super comfortable. 
And David, what are you wearing?

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Yeah, so I'm wearing the Low 
Tide short sleeve right now. 

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UPF protected, snap buttons. 
It's kind of like a more 

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performance-y feeling, High 
Country type of top. 

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So planning on recording tonight
and then maybe hitting the long 

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run in the same shirt tomorrow. 
That's funny. 

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First thing in the morning, save
some laundry. 

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You know what I'm saying? 
It can do that. 

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And all my students know I've 
worn the Low Tide a few times. 

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It's not quite as formal as the 
High Country stuff that I'll 

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usually wear, but it can still 
do it. 

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It's just really, it's lighter. 
So it's a lot better for 

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running, even though I can run 
on the High Country, the Low 

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Tide is a lot better for that. 
But anyway, again, if that's 

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something you're interested, 
great. 

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Awesome. 
Check out that. 

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Yes. 
All right. 

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So David, what do you have 
in-for-testing? 

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Yeah. 
So first one up here. 

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Well, I don't have it with me, 
but I'll talk very briefly about

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it. 
The Veloci, the featherweight. 

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So going to get the review out 
for that later this week. 

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High drop, rockered shoe, ATPU 
midsole, but a firmer ATPU. 

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Honestly, I've been really 
enjoying it for daily training. 

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It can pick up the pace a little
bit, but I would not call it a 

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speed shoe. 
Like it's like a long run type 

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of shoe. 
But it's nice. 

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It's really nice. 
Unfortunately, it is marketed to

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be more of a speed shoe. 
And I feel like it just bottoms 

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out a little bit. 
And it's also pretty high up. 

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I feel like it's hard to turn 
over on a 45 millimeter stack 

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shoe sometimes. 
But for the most part, it's 

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really nice. 
Yeah. 

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I'm going to add some stuff to 
your review just because we've 

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got enough shoes we got to get 
in. 

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I've got 60 miles on my pair. 
And this is the outsole for the 

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viewers. 
You can see it is holding up 

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super well. 
So outsole durability is 

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fantastic. 
You hit the nail on the head, 

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though, that it's not quite a 
speed shoe for me. 

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It is more of a daily trainer. 
I've got several long runs on 

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this shoe and I like it. 
The problem is at 60 miles, the 

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midsole is starting to, it's 
starting to firm up a little bit

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more than I would have expected.
So not quite at, there was a 

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little bounce when we started 
and it was like a little 

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forgiving. 
Now it's starting to firm up a 

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little bit. 
That also might be because I'm 

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really beat up and exhausted 
right now. 

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I just did a quick 24 hour 
flight to SoCal to do the SoCal 

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sports rehab conference, which 
was awesome, put on by Andy 

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Gray. 
And it was a fantastic 

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experience I got to present 
there. 

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But it, yeah, so I'm not, I have
not slept very much, but, and 

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that might be contributing to 
it, but not the softest ride, 

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not the most responsive, but 
that toe box is great. 

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And the combined higher drop, 
this has been great, especially 

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for walking because it's taken a
lot of pressure off my Achilles 

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tendon. 
And just that's, that's been 

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agitated a little extra 
recently, not because I'm over 

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training. 
I'm actually trying to get a 

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teeny bit less and trying to be 
smarter, but just, yeah, if you 

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don't sleep enough, it's harder 
for tissue to heal. 

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So that's, I have earned that. 
That's how it goes. 

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And then the other one. 
But yeah, super comfortable fit.

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But yeah. 
Yeah, and the other one, I'll 

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speed through this, no pun 
intended. 

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But this is the TYR Valkyrie 
Elite 2. 

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So supercritical ATPU, really 
soft, really bouncy, really 

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energetic, like definitely 
competitive with a lot of the 

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super shoes on the market. 
However, I will say that this is

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the type of shoe that you have 
to be able to control this 

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platform. 
And the geometry is very 

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aggressive. 
And so like the heel bevel is 

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pretty sharp up front. 
And it's pretty far anterior. 

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And so when you strike, it 
almost like, because of how soft

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the foam is too, you can really 
feel that thing sink in. 

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And sometimes it almost feels 
like a little bit like a 

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negative drop shoe just because 
of how aggressive the plate 

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design is. 
So the way it's spooned out, 

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it's got a really stiff apex 
right here in that early 

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forefoot. 
And then it's an early rocker 

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and then it's really sharp as it
comes up and it's stiff. 

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And so you have this soft, 
springy, bouncy shoe that's 

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already like hyper rockered. and
then you just like really load 

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that thing and it's bouncy it's 
catapulted it's really fun but 

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that soft and compliant foam is 
great at bouncing in all 

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directions and so if you're 
going forward it's great not to 

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say that turns are bad per se 
but if you get tired and you're 

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having a little bit more medial 
and lateral movement side to 

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side like not controlling that 
footstep quite as well like it 

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really starts to show its colors
there and that's where the shoe 

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starts to fight you a little bit
because you're trying to go 

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forward but because you're tired
you kind of have multi-planar 

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type movements. 
And then now the shoe's 

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responding to what's getting put
into it. 

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And it's just, it can be a 
little squirrely once you get 

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tired. 
That's the main thing. 

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Plenty of cushion to go 
marathon. 

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You just have to be able to 
actually control it for 

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marathon. 
And for most people, this 

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probably will be more of a 5K, 
10K shoe. 

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I ran out on a road mile, and I 
still had some issues as I got 

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tired. 
So it's one of those things, but

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like strides, marathon pace, 
half marathon pace, even mile 

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pace, like as long as you're in 
control, whether it be strides 

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or longer, like if you can keep 
this thing underneath you, it's 

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great. 
But if it starts getting a 

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little bit farther out from you,
you're not controlling your 

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strides quite as well. 
Like the shoe just starts to 

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fight you a little bit. 
So, previously I was saying it 

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reminded me a lot of the Audios 
Pro 2 from Adidas back then when

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that came out, not that they're 
the same shoe, just because that

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was a narrow platform. 
And at the time, Lightstrike Pro

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was a very soft and compliant 
foam for the market at the time.

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And it was a kind of a squirrely
shoe where it was great and 

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bouncy when you were running in 
a straight line. 

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But the second, like you had any
side to side movement, it was 

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like, oh my gosh, this is hard 
to control. 

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So that's kind of how this is. 
It's really fun, but it's got, 

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it's wild and you got to be able
to tame it. 

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So that's the main thing with 
the Valkyrie Elite too. 

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But I will say it being at 
priced at 280, it is one of the 

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shoes out there where I'm like, 
yeah, I see it. 

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You know, it's 40 in the heel, 
34 in the forefoot, six 

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millimeter drop. 
It's 5.3 ounces. 

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Like it's super light, super 
bouncy, responsive. 

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Like it checks all the boxes and
it's been good. 

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You know, I, I like it. 
It's just, I don't think I would

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personally race in it because I 
don't think I can control it. 

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I'm not in the fitness, I think,
to do it justice in a race right

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now, but I think for the right 
person, it could be an excellent

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shoe. 
I would definitely agree that, 

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like, aggressive, this is by far
the most aggressive super shoe 

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on the market right now, which 
is kind of wild to come from 

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TYR, although, you know, they 
have been pretty aggressive with

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their swimmer stuff. 
So it's not surprising that they

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jumped so high here. 
I was already impressed with the

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Maverick V1, like the toe box 
was great. 

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Like, this was a great shoe, not
perfect, but they really made 

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some great strides. 
No pun intended on this being 

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the first version of the shoe. 
I'm really excited to see what 

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version 2 looks like, but this 
is insane. 

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And yeah, I would agree, like, 
probably should have called that

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one the Maverick. 
Yeah, this is, yeah, I think 

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it's Valkyrie, though. 
Valkyrie is like it's, yeah, 

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fighting goddess type, like. 
Yeah, this is the first time 

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I've ever said this. 
I think the heel bevel is too 

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anterior. 
And what heel bevels do, right, 

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is they can often change your 
landing point. 

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They tend to shift things a 
little bit forward, smoother 

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transition, but that's assuming 
it's in the right spot, I think,

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because it's too far forward. 
Super soft hyper launch foam, 

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which is named appropriately as 
an ATPU foam. 

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It, yeah, it's got a negative 
drop feel and I can definitely 

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feel that. 
I have found I pulled the insole

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is not removable, but I hot, did
some, used a hairdryer and got 

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the glue to loosen up a little 
bit carefully and put a heel 

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lift in there. 
It actually worked. 

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So the first run I did, I was 
like, Oh, my Achilles is a 

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little flared up. 
The second and third ones with 

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the heel lift have been better. 
I mean, I still need to get more

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miles in this before we put a 
review. 

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And by the time this episode 
actually gets out I will have 

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the review out, which is great, 
but it just, super negative drop

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feel. 
So if you're up on your 

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forefoot, if you're light on 
your feet, this is a great 

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option if you've got good 
control, like David said, you 

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got narrow feet because it's not
wide. 

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I was kind of hoping for that 
similar anatomic foot shape just

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because I think I've gotten 
spoiled by the Topo Spectre 

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Elite, the Altra Vanish Carbon 
3, but no, this is very snug. 

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If you want wide, the wide foot 
fan, this is not going to work, 

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and there's no wide version of 
this, and I don't think you can 

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even get the laces loose enough 
to get the wide feet in here. 

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So it is super aggressive, it 
makes the Metaspeed Ray look 

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like a safe geometry type shoe. 
That's not the right way to say 

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that, but it is super aggressive
and one of the lightest things 

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out there. 
So if you want one, if you can 

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handle it, great. 
I would not take this past 5K. 

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I don't even know if I would use
this for a half if I was in my 

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best shape, I would use this for
a half marathon. 

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I don't know, a marathon is too 
much, but, you know, people used

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to run in the Streak LT, so, for
a marathon, so, you know, 

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there's people gonna handle it, 
but it is, it's pretty crazy. 

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So good job, TYR, I'm really 
impressed. 

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It's not perfect for me. 
I'll put, let's, I put a heel 

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lift in there, but it's wild. 
So what else you got? 

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Yeah, so I got a few more things
on here. 

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We've got the Fila Speed Tempo 
Plus. 

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Now that I had another time to 
say it, I got it right this 

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time. 
It's like every, like, tagline 

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on a shoe, you know, the speed, 
the tempo, the plus, but put it 

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all in one, the Speed Tempo 
Plus, baby. 

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It's nice. 
Yeah, it's nice. 

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It's just kind of like a like 
just a gradual heel bevel, 

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nothing crazy. 
You've got a little bit of an 

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earlier rocker, but it's not 
super aggressive. 

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You have a firmer kind of 
supercritical type feeling foam.

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It's just lightweight, what is 
it, like, it's right around like

218
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eight ounces. 
It might even be the sevens. 

219
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It's like 220 grams. 
I think, no, I think it's 7.7 

220
00:10:19,060 --> 00:10:20,340
ounces. 
Yeah, actually, yeah, it's 

221
00:10:20,340 --> 00:10:21,364
light. 
Yeah, it's great. 

222
00:10:21,364 --> 00:10:24,319
And then it's got a good amount 
of volume in the forefoot, but a

223
00:10:24,319 --> 00:10:25,717
little bit more of a performance
fit otherwise. 

224
00:10:25,717 --> 00:10:28,500
So it's not super wide. 
You just have a little bit of 

225
00:10:28,500 --> 00:10:31,140
like space vertically in the 
forefoot, and then a really thin

226
00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,455
tongue there. 
I will say really quick that the

227
00:10:34,455 --> 00:10:38,063
volume thing, the toe box is 
very tapered, so if you're 

228
00:10:38,063 --> 00:10:40,703
looking for a wide toe box, this
is not it. 

229
00:10:40,703 --> 00:10:44,027
Some of the overlay, like, it's 
not bad, it does have a little 

230
00:10:44,027 --> 00:10:47,237
stretch to it, but it does come 
in quite a bit, and I was like, 

231
00:10:47,237 --> 00:10:49,598
I was a little shocked 
initially, was, oh, okay. 

232
00:10:49,598 --> 00:10:53,476
But it's, it's, it has spread 
out within reason, but it's 

233
00:10:53,476 --> 00:10:55,940
definitely not a wide shoe for 
sure. 

234
00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,028
It has that performance style 
fit that you were talking about.

235
00:10:59,028 --> 00:11:02,470
Yeah, and so far, I mean, it's 
priced at 130 and competes with,

236
00:11:02,470 --> 00:11:06,101
like, a lot of the price, like, 
150 price shoes that we've been 

237
00:11:06,101 --> 00:11:10,430
seeing, like the Adidas Adizero 
EVO SL, the Puma Deviate Pure 

238
00:11:10,430 --> 00:11:14,330
Nitro, like Hoka Mach 7. 
Like, think in that family, 

239
00:11:14,330 --> 00:11:17,899
Brooks Ghost Amp. 
It's kind of in that category. 

240
00:11:17,899 --> 00:11:21,628
But it is competitive. 
I need to get more miles on 

241
00:11:21,628 --> 00:11:24,340
this, but it's a shoe that I 
think... 

242
00:11:24,460 --> 00:11:26,524
I mean, I know Nate really likes
it. 

243
00:11:26,524 --> 00:11:29,359
I know he's talking potential 
trainer of the year, I believe, 

244
00:11:29,900 --> 00:11:32,270
for him. 
So we'll see. 

245
00:11:32,270 --> 00:11:34,640
Especially at 130. 
It's nice. 

246
00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:38,432
It's just a simple, firm, 
supercritical type shoe. 

247
00:11:38,432 --> 00:11:41,008
No nonsense. 
But it's nice. 

248
00:11:41,008 --> 00:11:43,640
Outsole's got a lot of full 
contact coverage. 

249
00:11:44,580 --> 00:11:47,397
Yeah, it's, I've got 30 miles on
my pair. 

250
00:11:47,397 --> 00:11:51,153
It's handled me really well, and
it can turn over really nicely. 

251
00:11:51,153 --> 00:11:53,275
It's not necessarily something I
would use for racing, but I 

252
00:11:53,275 --> 00:11:56,248
think a lot of people might do 
very well in this because, even 

253
00:11:56,248 --> 00:11:58,525
though it's got a little more 
narrow platform because it's 

254
00:11:58,525 --> 00:12:02,189
not, it's not as compliant as 
some of the softer foams out 

255
00:12:02,189 --> 00:12:04,659
there, it's just an inherently 
more stable ride. 

256
00:12:04,780 --> 00:12:07,204
Stable isn't the right term for 
this shoe. 

257
00:12:07,204 --> 00:12:11,234
It's not a stability shoe, but 
it just, I didn't expect it to 

258
00:12:11,234 --> 00:12:16,096
feel as like not unstable is the
best way I can put that. 

259
00:12:16,096 --> 00:12:18,340
I'm like, oh, that's nice. 
Okay. 

260
00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,128
I thought my ankles were going 
to be hurting more, but it can 

261
00:12:21,128 --> 00:12:23,293
turn over really well. 
It's just one of those shoes 

262
00:12:23,293 --> 00:12:25,957
where the rocker's just in the 
right place where you can hit, 

263
00:12:25,957 --> 00:12:28,268
you can run some great workouts 
in it. 

264
00:12:28,268 --> 00:12:30,539
And I've had, I've been 
surprised every time. 

265
00:12:30,700 --> 00:12:33,876
I think, I think the story I 
told last week was my student, 

266
00:12:33,876 --> 00:12:36,663
one of my students that joins us
and then Regina were both 

267
00:12:36,663 --> 00:12:38,733
wearing Alphaflys and I was 
wearing that shoe pushing the 

268
00:12:38,733 --> 00:12:41,756
stroller. 
I still put down a 450 pace last

269
00:12:41,756 --> 00:12:44,726
rep for intervals. 
And I was like, okay, yeah, I 

270
00:12:44,726 --> 00:12:46,799
can still move. 
So good job, Fila. 

271
00:12:46,929 --> 00:12:48,217
I was impressed. 
Yeah. 

272
00:12:48,217 --> 00:12:52,395
I don't know about shoe of the 
year, but Nathan's, he's in love

273
00:12:52,395 --> 00:12:54,000
with that shoe. 
Yeah, yeah. 

274
00:12:55,479 --> 00:12:56,919
Oh, man, shoe of the year for 
me. 

275
00:12:56,919 --> 00:12:58,539
It's going to be a tight race 
this year. 

276
00:12:59,039 --> 00:13:01,990
In my head, I think I know what 
it is right now for me. 

277
00:13:01,990 --> 00:13:06,899
But we'll see as time goes on. 
Next one here, I'm super excited

278
00:13:06,899 --> 00:13:10,059
about to take this out. 
But it'll have to wait. 

279
00:13:10,239 --> 00:13:13,394
Probably won't be tomorrow 
because I got to finish those 

280
00:13:13,394 --> 00:13:16,229
Veloci miles. 
But it's going to be the Teva 

281
00:13:16,229 --> 00:13:19,256
Trail Peak. 
If you asked me if I'd be 

282
00:13:19,256 --> 00:13:21,919
excited to run in a Teva shoe 
like a year ago, I don't know 

283
00:13:21,919 --> 00:13:25,074
that I would be. 
But it's, you know, in the low 

284
00:13:25,074 --> 00:13:29,256
eight ounces, it's an ATPU foam.
It's got a nice fit to it. 

285
00:13:29,256 --> 00:13:31,955
Wide toe box. 
Volume's a little bit lower. 

286
00:13:31,955 --> 00:13:34,345
Tongue's a little like on the 
thin side. 

287
00:13:34,345 --> 00:13:37,101
It's padded enough. 
It's more padded than the Fila 

288
00:13:37,101 --> 00:13:38,900
shoe. 
You got speed laces on it. 

289
00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,735
If you've had the Hoka 
Transport, it fits kind of 

290
00:13:41,735 --> 00:13:45,710
similar to the Hoka Transport. 
So, but a very like more 

291
00:13:45,710 --> 00:13:47,682
runnable version of that 
basically. 

292
00:13:47,682 --> 00:13:50,440
And then the lugs aren't super 
aggressive. 

293
00:13:50,659 --> 00:13:54,159
I'm holding it up right there 
for the camera. 

294
00:13:54,159 --> 00:13:56,875
Should work for both road and 
trail. 

295
00:13:56,875 --> 00:13:59,671
So, yeah, excited. 
I mean, spec wise and price 

296
00:13:59,671 --> 00:14:01,159
wise, it's like right around 
160. 

297
00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,816
So like very fairly priced if 
it's a low 8-ounce ATPU trail 

298
00:14:05,816 --> 00:14:07,900
running shoe. 
Like, that's pretty good. 

299
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:10,968
Moderate stack, I think it's 
like right around 30. 

300
00:14:10,968 --> 00:14:12,784
Might even be a little higher. 
Not bad. 

301
00:14:12,784 --> 00:14:13,919
Yeah. 
Not bad at all. 

302
00:14:14,359 --> 00:14:16,095
Yeah, so let's have a Trail 
Peak. 

303
00:14:16,095 --> 00:14:19,059
And then this one, now I'm 
curious to see how this goes, 

304
00:14:19,359 --> 00:14:22,699
because traditionally the road 
version I struggle with and the 

305
00:14:22,699 --> 00:14:25,700
gravel version I do better with,
like with Salomon. 

306
00:14:25,809 --> 00:14:27,930
And that's the Salomon Aeroblaze
4 gravel. 

307
00:14:27,930 --> 00:14:31,859
So the big change here, upper is
just a little bit more traily, 

308
00:14:32,039 --> 00:14:35,927
which I think is good, because 
last time the gravel 3, it was 

309
00:14:35,927 --> 00:14:38,020
basically just a road upper. 
What's that? 

310
00:14:39,119 --> 00:14:40,778
Is that the Gore-Tex version or 
not? 

311
00:14:40,778 --> 00:14:43,619
No, I don't think so. 
I didn't see it on the box. 

312
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,419
I have the Gore-Tex version of 
that shoe. 

313
00:14:46,419 --> 00:14:48,400
I haven't taken it out of the 
box yet because it literally 

314
00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,380
came in last night as I was 
flying in from Los Angeles. 

315
00:14:50,559 --> 00:14:52,519
Oh, yeah. 
So, maybe the Gore-Tex will be 

316
00:14:52,519 --> 00:14:54,715
coming in soon, too. 
Hey, it's raining right now. 

317
00:14:54,715 --> 00:14:58,525
So, maybe that might be good. 
But, yeah, the midfoot's always 

318
00:14:58,525 --> 00:15:00,380
been unstable for me for the 
Aeroblaze. 

319
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,070
The last two models, especially 
with that beaded TPU midsole 

320
00:15:03,070 --> 00:15:06,552
where it's a fun foam. but it's 
just like it's got some give to 

321
00:15:06,552 --> 00:15:08,280
it, and I struggle with that 
mid-foot stability. 

322
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,236
But the Aeroblaze 3 gravel, 
because the outsole was so 

323
00:15:12,236 --> 00:15:15,559
thick, it stabilized some of it,
and I was able to run in it much

324
00:15:15,559 --> 00:15:17,191
better. 
So I'm curious to see how this 

325
00:15:17,191 --> 00:15:18,680
one goes. 
It literally just came in. 

326
00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,260
So maybe this one came in for me
and the gravel came in for you. 

327
00:15:21,500 --> 00:15:26,783
But we've got that one, and the 
other one that just came in is 

328
00:15:26,783 --> 00:15:28,668
the Mizuno Sky Prime. 
Yes. 

329
00:15:28,668 --> 00:15:33,409
Yeah, so interesting. 
I mean, this is like maybe the 

330
00:15:33,409 --> 00:15:37,091
most opposite Mizuno shoe I've 
seen in a while. 

331
00:15:37,091 --> 00:15:40,748
Yes. 
I mean, we're talking like wide 

332
00:15:40,748 --> 00:15:44,020
base, high up, really soft foam 
underfoot. 

333
00:15:45,140 --> 00:15:48,172
And then it's kind of more of 
like a knit upper, like a thick 

334
00:15:48,172 --> 00:15:51,927
plush knit upper. 
And the only thing is like it 

335
00:15:51,927 --> 00:15:54,617
tapers pretty quick. 
The toe box isn't the widest and

336
00:15:54,617 --> 00:15:56,500
the volume is a little bit 
lower. 

337
00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,340
I found that it stretches a 
little bit and I felt like it 

338
00:15:59,340 --> 00:16:03,291
was okay. but I know some of the
people on the team had an issue.

339
00:16:03,291 --> 00:16:06,619
So I've got one run in this shoe
and it is not fast. 

340
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:08,512
That's not, I guess, what it's 
meant for. 

341
00:16:08,512 --> 00:16:10,580
But yeah, that toe box taper is 
bothering a little bit. 

342
00:16:11,099 --> 00:16:13,619
I am hoping it breaks in, but 
yeah. 

343
00:16:13,619 --> 00:16:17,390
So now this is that Red White 
and Blue Labor Day special, 

344
00:16:17,390 --> 00:16:18,960
baby. 
Look at that thing. 

345
00:16:19,070 --> 00:16:21,950
I know. 
They typically do some kind of 

346
00:16:21,950 --> 00:16:25,900
Red White and Blue shoe. 
I can't talk around this time. 

347
00:16:26,979 --> 00:16:31,745
Yeah, it's just a super, it's, 
it's a Sky Prime, it's an even 

348
00:16:31,745 --> 00:16:35,039
taller sky. 
I don't know what else to say. 

349
00:16:35,219 --> 00:16:37,589
It's massive. 
Yeah, it's not as unstable as I 

350
00:16:37,589 --> 00:16:41,112
thought it was going to be, 
mushy, but it's got wide base, 

351
00:16:41,112 --> 00:16:44,698
some various, and I, again, for 
the listeners and viewers, I'm 

352
00:16:44,698 --> 00:16:48,507
really sorry, for years I was 
saying sidewalls, the correct 

353
00:16:48,507 --> 00:16:51,770
term is topline. 
That is top, I'm sorry. 

354
00:16:51,770 --> 00:16:56,100
Yeah, it's, it's got some like 
topline, mild amounts in the 

355
00:16:56,100 --> 00:16:59,580
like heel, but not major there 
if you're sensitive to that at 

356
00:16:59,580 --> 00:17:01,610
all. 
And, but it's, it's not as, 

357
00:17:01,610 --> 00:17:06,150
yeah, it's not as like mushy 
responsive as I was expecting. 

358
00:17:06,150 --> 00:17:10,794
It's just a very tall rocker 
shoe that likes to go slow. 

359
00:17:10,794 --> 00:17:12,470
Yep. 
That's, that's it. 

360
00:17:12,470 --> 00:17:14,180
I don't know what else to say. 
Premium trainer. 

361
00:17:14,180 --> 00:17:15,319
Yeah, the same toe box. 
Neutral. 

362
00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:15,699
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

363
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,869
And that's what I got. 
What do you got in-for-testing? 

364
00:17:18,869 --> 00:17:22,544
The last thing that I have, 
which has been a very unique 

365
00:17:22,544 --> 00:17:26,540
surprise, and I'm very mixed on 
this is the On Cloudsurfer 

366
00:17:26,540 --> 00:17:29,688
three, which beforehand I was 
like, is this episode going to 

367
00:17:29,688 --> 00:17:31,281
be out by the time the embargo 
is up? 

368
00:17:31,281 --> 00:17:35,235
And the answer is yes, I hope. 
So yeah, this is the third 

369
00:17:35,235 --> 00:17:37,407
version. 
It is very different from 

370
00:17:37,407 --> 00:17:41,649
version two and one where those 
versions were great where it 

371
00:17:41,649 --> 00:17:44,825
was, you know, lighter. 
They weren't obviously the 

372
00:17:44,825 --> 00:17:48,340
softest things on the market, 
but they were softer than many 

373
00:17:48,340 --> 00:17:51,891
of the On shoes out there and 
just, yeah, solid light It's 

374
00:17:51,891 --> 00:17:54,003
supposed to be a trainer, but 
what felt more like a 

375
00:17:54,003 --> 00:17:56,742
lightweight trainer, I did 
workouts in those shoes, not 

376
00:17:56,742 --> 00:18:01,395
stable at all, but the version 
three is updated with something 

377
00:18:01,395 --> 00:18:03,692
called Surreal™. 
And of course they don't tell us

378
00:18:03,692 --> 00:18:05,859
what it is supposed to be some 
kind of super foam. 

379
00:18:05,959 --> 00:18:08,918
And as with On, it's firmer than
you would expect, but it's still

380
00:18:08,918 --> 00:18:11,661
got some snap. 
My first run of the shoe ended 

381
00:18:11,661 --> 00:18:13,239
up turning into this mild 
uptempo run. 

382
00:18:13,250 --> 00:18:16,434
And I really should not have 
done that, but it happened was 

383
00:18:16,434 --> 00:18:19,310
running around Lake Oswego here 
in Oregon and was just checking 

384
00:18:19,310 --> 00:18:21,859
the air while my daughter was 
doing mixed martial arts. 

385
00:18:22,739 --> 00:18:25,845
And it, yeah, it's an 
interesting shoe, pretty smooth 

386
00:18:25,845 --> 00:18:28,605
riding shoe as with a lot of 
Ons. 

387
00:18:28,605 --> 00:18:31,243
It's getting better. 
And I do admit this because you 

388
00:18:31,243 --> 00:18:33,319
and I had an argument on the 
Cloudsurfer, not an argument, 

389
00:18:33,479 --> 00:18:36,031
but like, I just hated the 
Cloudsurfer Max. 

390
00:18:36,031 --> 00:18:37,939
This one is breaking in. 
Yeah. 

391
00:18:38,140 --> 00:18:42,188
The CloudTec, the CloudTec Phase
is what they call it, is 

392
00:18:42,188 --> 00:18:46,175
breaking in much more than I 
think any other On shoe I've had

393
00:18:46,175 --> 00:18:48,337
where, yeah, it's been great. so
far. 

394
00:18:48,337 --> 00:18:52,387
Upper, classic On, like really 
great fit, wider toe box, even 

395
00:18:52,387 --> 00:18:56,022
wider than the previous version.
Volume is still very, very low. 

396
00:18:56,022 --> 00:18:58,680
So it holds you nicely while 
there's still some room. 

397
00:18:58,709 --> 00:19:02,022
So don't expect like tons of 
volume, but very comfortable, 

398
00:19:02,022 --> 00:19:05,407
especially for all day wear. 
And then yeah, very light heel 

399
00:19:05,407 --> 00:19:08,059
back here, still a heel counter,
but there's a decent amount of 

400
00:19:08,059 --> 00:19:10,221
padding that didn't bug me too 
much. 

401
00:19:10,221 --> 00:19:13,335
So yeah, it's heavier. 
It's 300 grams or 10.6 ounces 

402
00:19:13,335 --> 00:19:15,478
now. 
So that's a really big change, 

403
00:19:15,478 --> 00:19:18,983
but it's a solid training shoe. 
The other thing is, I, it's 

404
00:19:18,983 --> 00:19:20,788
really comfortable to walk 
around in. 

405
00:19:20,788 --> 00:19:24,736
I walked around it a little bit,
but kind of kept things quiet in

406
00:19:24,736 --> 00:19:28,343
the airport because I have seen 
several people walking in shoes 

407
00:19:28,343 --> 00:19:31,561
that they probably shouldn't, 
like prototype shoes, and be 

408
00:19:31,561 --> 00:19:34,508
like, I wouldn't be walking 
around enough. 

409
00:19:34,508 --> 00:19:37,876
So I was careful. 
So it's good though. 

410
00:19:37,876 --> 00:19:40,410
Nice. 
What else you got, or is that, 

411
00:19:40,410 --> 00:19:43,410
that's all I got right now? 
Hey, then let's get into this 

412
00:19:43,410 --> 00:19:45,383
mailbag. 
I guess my only other thing is, 

413
00:19:45,383 --> 00:19:48,275
On, can you please send me the, 
out the On Cloudrunner Max, 

414
00:19:48,275 --> 00:19:50,465
because even though it's looks, 
it's super high weight. 

415
00:19:50,465 --> 00:19:53,234
I really want to test it because
I'm really curious what you do 

416
00:19:53,234 --> 00:19:57,037
with that So we're gonna go into
our main segment, finally. 

417
00:19:57,037 --> 00:19:59,083
We're at 20 minutes. 
That's not bad. 

418
00:19:59,083 --> 00:20:02,282
Last week we were. 
Yeah, yeah, it was a long, 

419
00:20:02,282 --> 00:20:04,890
interesting, we, that was, yeah,
drug it out. 

420
00:20:04,890 --> 00:20:07,836
We did, but our in-for-testing 
is sponsored by Skratch Labs, 

421
00:20:07,836 --> 00:20:11,980
who we are both big fans of, and
the team is a really big fan of.

422
00:20:11,980 --> 00:20:15,385
I guess I probably shouldn't say
the mystery flavor, but I do 

423
00:20:15,385 --> 00:20:19,176
like it, it is pretty good, and 
now I have two bags because I 

424
00:20:19,176 --> 00:20:21,401
ordered some, and then they sent
us some. 

425
00:20:21,401 --> 00:20:25,615
So it is good if you do want 20%
off your first order from 

426
00:20:25,615 --> 00:20:29,512
Skratch, which is not my first 
order, you can use the code 

427
00:20:29,512 --> 00:20:32,807
DOCTORSOFRUNNING, all one word, 
all capital letters, if you need

428
00:20:32,807 --> 00:20:36,276
some additional hydration stuff.
I am very curious, and And Nate 

429
00:20:36,276 --> 00:20:38,572
has talked about this for a 
while. 

430
00:20:38,572 --> 00:20:42,180
I'm finally going to go try 
their mango super carb mix. 

431
00:20:42,390 --> 00:20:46,288
Because he said it was good. 
Some of the other ones have been

432
00:20:46,288 --> 00:20:47,783
okay. 
They do really well. 

433
00:20:47,783 --> 00:20:50,395
They digest well. 
It just gets a little thicker 

434
00:20:50,395 --> 00:20:52,920
than I would want. 
But they changed the serving 

435
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,537
size and has made it a lot. 
When I modified that, it's made 

436
00:20:56,537 --> 00:20:59,948
it a lot better to get in. 
But Nate was saying the flavor 

437
00:20:59,948 --> 00:21:03,044
on the mango is really good. 
So that is a TBD. 

438
00:21:03,044 --> 00:21:06,272
We'll report back because I just
ordered some and we'll see what 

439
00:21:06,272 --> 00:21:07,880
happens. 
I need to try that. 

440
00:21:09,060 --> 00:21:11,711
Because I'm not training quite 
as hard anymore, I'm just not 

441
00:21:11,711 --> 00:21:14,119
going to the super high carb 
stuff quite as much. 

442
00:21:14,170 --> 00:21:18,057
So I'll just do like two scoops 
of the regular Skratch Labs in a

443
00:21:18,057 --> 00:21:22,364
17 ounce soft flask and then use
one or two of those, depending 

444
00:21:22,364 --> 00:21:26,097
how long I'm going, versus like 
the, you know, the loaded up 

445
00:21:26,097 --> 00:21:30,380
high carb. 
I've been much more careful just

446
00:21:30,380 --> 00:21:33,417
because I'm working so many 
hours right now and have so much

447
00:21:33,417 --> 00:21:36,741
stuff on my plate. 
I do not have time to be like 

448
00:21:36,741 --> 00:21:39,016
mentally fogged. 
So like workouts, runs in the 

449
00:21:39,016 --> 00:21:42,035
treadmill, always have a workout
or electrolyte mix, Skratch 

450
00:21:42,035 --> 00:21:44,380
Labs. 
And then long runs, it's just 

451
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:46,444
been, I've been just putting the
high carb on. 

452
00:21:46,444 --> 00:21:48,148
So I'm not like dead. 
I'm not dead. 

453
00:21:48,148 --> 00:21:49,857
I need to stop saying like 
today. 

454
00:21:49,857 --> 00:21:51,736
I'm not as mentally dead right 
afterwards. 

455
00:21:51,736 --> 00:21:56,049
And I'm not going that long. 
I'm going 12, 13 miles, but you 

456
00:21:56,049 --> 00:22:00,773
know, for, yeah, just making 
sure I don't get it, that phase 

457
00:22:00,773 --> 00:22:03,749
is really important. 
So I've been using it quite a 

458
00:22:03,749 --> 00:22:05,646
bit and it's been very, very 
helpful. 

459
00:22:05,646 --> 00:22:08,292
So yeah. 
Anyway, let's get into our main 

460
00:22:08,292 --> 00:22:10,712
segment called our mailbag. 
And what the mailbag is, if 

461
00:22:10,712 --> 00:22:14,277
you're a new listener, is that 
we get a really high volume of 

462
00:22:14,277 --> 00:22:16,374
emails. 
And as all of us are working at 

463
00:22:16,374 --> 00:22:19,634
least one, if not in my case, 
three jobs, it's really hard to 

464
00:22:19,634 --> 00:22:22,470
keep up with trying to answer 
every single email while also 

465
00:22:22,470 --> 00:22:23,975
putting out content and getting 
through stuff. 

466
00:22:23,975 --> 00:22:27,002
So what we've done is going, 
hey, when people send us emails,

467
00:22:27,002 --> 00:22:30,439
it with consent, we'll pull them
together and then not give any 

468
00:22:30,459 --> 00:22:34,122
incriminating information and 
see if we can answer them on the

469
00:22:34,122 --> 00:22:36,119
pod live. 
And hopefully that information 

470
00:22:36,239 --> 00:22:38,760
not only helps people that are 
sending them in, but also give 

471
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,530
you some background because 
we'll try to come at this, not 

472
00:22:41,530 --> 00:22:43,938
just from a footwear 
perspective, but also from 

473
00:22:43,938 --> 00:22:46,992
biomechanics, rehab, all this 
kind of stuff to give you some 

474
00:22:46,992 --> 00:22:48,728
options there. 
So let's jump into this. 

475
00:22:48,728 --> 00:22:51,470
Our first one is from Anthony, 
who says, hi DOR. 

476
00:22:51,470 --> 00:22:54,312
I'm curious if there are any 
negatives or drawbacks from 

477
00:22:54,312 --> 00:22:57,216
having a single shoe rotation. 
I've been running in the 

478
00:22:57,216 --> 00:22:58,846
Endorphin Speed 4 and Hurricane 
26. 

479
00:22:58,846 --> 00:23:02,327
I have a 10 mile and a half 
marathon race ahead with the 

480
00:23:02,327 --> 00:23:05,116
Speeds retired and Hurricanes on
their last leg are recently 

481
00:23:05,116 --> 00:23:08,391
upgraded to the Hoka Mach X3, 
also definitely one of those 

482
00:23:08,391 --> 00:23:10,960
stable neutral type shoes, and 
Hurricane's a stability shoe. 

483
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,785
I'm looking to keep things 
simple, but I do not want to 

484
00:23:13,785 --> 00:23:16,392
sacrifice up-tempo capability. 
Eventually, I'll be looking at 

485
00:23:16,392 --> 00:23:19,718
getting something new, like the 
new Guide, or for a more 

486
00:23:19,718 --> 00:23:21,846
traditional trainer. 
But in the meantime, am I 

487
00:23:21,846 --> 00:23:25,415
making, am I making a mistake by
almost entirely running in these

488
00:23:25,415 --> 00:23:28,015
up-tempo oriented shoes? 
David, what do you think? 

489
00:23:28,015 --> 00:23:32,432
Yeah, it's an interesting one 
because I think as the market is

490
00:23:32,432 --> 00:23:36,704
moving towards a lot of these 
performance-esque shoes, these 

491
00:23:36,704 --> 00:23:38,559
shoes are getting more and more 
versatile. 

492
00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:41,675
Even the daily trainers are. 
I mean, you look at something 

493
00:23:41,675 --> 00:23:44,479
like the Puma Velocity being at 
like 8.0 ounces, ATPU. 

494
00:23:44,890 --> 00:23:48,020
Like, I mean, is it the fastest 
shoe on the market? 

495
00:23:48,300 --> 00:23:52,316
No, but like it can go pretty 
fast, you know, for a flagship 

496
00:23:52,316 --> 00:23:53,856
neutral trainer at 140. 
Yeah. 

497
00:23:53,856 --> 00:23:58,607
So it's interesting. 
I think if you're doing this 

498
00:23:58,607 --> 00:24:01,119
recreationally, it's probably 
fine. 

499
00:24:01,979 --> 00:24:04,949
It's one of those things where 
if you're logging like really 

500
00:24:04,949 --> 00:24:08,180
high mileage weeks and this is 
like you're getting out there 

501
00:24:08,180 --> 00:24:11,699
and just just doing the thing, 
it can get pretty repetitive. 

502
00:24:12,239 --> 00:24:16,722
And anytime we have that much 
repetition, it can wear us down 

503
00:24:16,722 --> 00:24:19,706
in certain ways. 
Just the cyclical nature of 

504
00:24:19,706 --> 00:24:23,119
running. and it is nice to have 
some variety just to help offset

505
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,223
some of those loads and change 
the loading patterns a little 

506
00:24:26,223 --> 00:24:29,239
bit, or even pacing patterns 
depending on like slow versus 

507
00:24:29,239 --> 00:24:32,608
fast and just having variety to 
your training. 

508
00:24:32,608 --> 00:24:35,939
I would say there's nothing 
necessarily inherently wrong, 

509
00:24:36,579 --> 00:24:40,672
especially if it's more on the 
recreational side, but if you 

510
00:24:40,672 --> 00:24:44,313
are running a lot, it's probably
better to have a rotation and 

511
00:24:44,313 --> 00:24:47,835
have some variety. 
So I would definitely agree that

512
00:24:47,835 --> 00:24:50,580
you don't have to have a 
rotation shoes. 

513
00:24:50,580 --> 00:24:53,240
You know, shoes are very 
expensive nowadays. 

514
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,248
They, you know, it's, and if 
you're, and David hit him in the

515
00:24:57,248 --> 00:25:00,455
head, if you're not getting like
tons and tons of miles, you can 

516
00:25:00,455 --> 00:25:02,687
totally do this. 
However, that said, we, we do 

517
00:25:02,687 --> 00:25:05,828
have some evidence and it's not 
from the footwear companies that

518
00:25:05,828 --> 00:25:09,339
having a small rotation of shoes
can reduce injury risk. 

519
00:25:09,719 --> 00:25:13,320
That said, if you're feeling 
comfortable, you like the shoes,

520
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:17,463
I would say really don't worry 
about it right now, only 

521
00:25:17,463 --> 00:25:20,950
because, yeah, there's other 
bigger things I would worry 

522
00:25:20,950 --> 00:25:23,743
about, like your training, are 
you getting enough sleep, are 

523
00:25:23,743 --> 00:25:26,595
you slowly progressing things 
enough, are you getting enough 

524
00:25:26,595 --> 00:25:28,743
nutrition, you know, all the 
other factors. 

525
00:25:28,743 --> 00:25:32,483
I think another shoe is not a 
bad idea because that's what you

526
00:25:32,483 --> 00:25:34,926
come from, just having an 
Endorphin Speed, Hurricane 26, 

527
00:25:34,926 --> 00:25:38,130
but if you like the shoes 
enough, I agree, I think a lot 

528
00:25:38,130 --> 00:25:40,280
of the stuff is getting 
versatile enough that I think 

529
00:25:40,300 --> 00:25:44,777
you're fine, but as David 
mentioned, not a bad idea to 

530
00:25:44,777 --> 00:25:49,309
vary the loads on your body. 
So yeah, you could go either 

531
00:25:49,309 --> 00:25:51,103
way. 
It just depends on, does it fit,

532
00:25:51,103 --> 00:25:53,476
you know, finances, does it fit 
everything you're looking for. 

533
00:25:53,476 --> 00:25:55,588
So don't feel pressured either 
way, just go with what, what do 

534
00:25:55,588 --> 00:25:58,349
you think is going to be most 
beneficial to you, and that's 

535
00:25:58,349 --> 00:26:01,901
more than just, oh my gosh, 
like, do I have X, Y, and Z, 

536
00:26:01,901 --> 00:26:04,999
because, you know, Mach X3 is 
great, it kind of fits with what

537
00:26:04,999 --> 00:26:06,820
you're looking for, being that 
stable neutral ride. 

538
00:26:07,319 --> 00:26:09,234
It is a little stiff, in my 
opinion. 

539
00:26:09,234 --> 00:26:12,819
I think that plate was, I did 
train in it quite a bit, it was 

540
00:26:12,930 --> 00:26:16,335
just a little bit too stiff for 
me to want to use all the time, 

541
00:26:16,335 --> 00:26:19,180
but there are people who also 
respond super well to that 

542
00:26:19,180 --> 00:26:20,930
stiffness, and it just works for
them. 

543
00:26:20,930 --> 00:26:24,637
So just see how you feel. 
I would still consider a second 

544
00:26:24,637 --> 00:26:27,031
one that's kind of more 
trainer-oriented, based on what 

545
00:26:27,031 --> 00:26:31,040
you've been doing, and if you've
had success, keep with it, but 

546
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,460
you don't have to. 
So quick add-on here, Anthony 

547
00:26:34,460 --> 00:26:38,441
also asked, hey, as a bonus, do 
you have any advice for managing

548
00:26:38,441 --> 00:26:41,577
or accommodating a grade three 
PCL, I'm assuming you need a 

549
00:26:41,577 --> 00:26:43,969
grade PCL tear. 
That's an interesting one, I've 

550
00:26:43,969 --> 00:26:47,625
had, I've seen several of these.
David, do you have any quick 

551
00:26:47,625 --> 00:26:51,156
comments on management for that?
I mean, honestly, this is not 

552
00:26:51,156 --> 00:26:54,375
medical advice, anytime you have
ligamentous laxity, be it a 

553
00:26:54,375 --> 00:26:58,239
tear, partial, or just genetic, 
like, it's just gonna be good to

554
00:26:58,319 --> 00:27:00,938
stabilize around that joint. 
So whether that be quad, 

555
00:27:00,938 --> 00:27:03,650
hamstring, proximally in the 
glutes, making sure you've just 

556
00:27:03,650 --> 00:27:07,131
got a good leg, deep calf, 
everything, you know, that work 

557
00:27:07,131 --> 00:27:09,562
goes into stabilizing that leg. 
That'd be the biggest thing. 

558
00:27:09,562 --> 00:27:11,979
You know, it's one of those 
things where if you have a grade

559
00:27:12,079 --> 00:27:15,413
three PCL, a lot of times 
orthopedists, they tend to not 

560
00:27:15,413 --> 00:27:19,124
touch it because most of the 
time, the loads that we put on 

561
00:27:19,124 --> 00:27:21,490
those ligaments, it's not in the
same direction as the ACL. 

562
00:27:21,490 --> 00:27:24,517
A lot of times it's a dashboard 
injury that we're just going to 

563
00:27:24,517 --> 00:27:27,202
like just jam to backwards. 
And we just don't really have 

564
00:27:27,202 --> 00:27:28,986
loads that go that direction all
the time. 

565
00:27:28,986 --> 00:27:31,439
So a lot of times people elect 
not to touch it. 

566
00:27:32,300 --> 00:27:34,202
Again, not medical advice or 
anything. 

567
00:27:34,202 --> 00:27:37,680
It's just, but there will be 
some laxity inside the joint. 

568
00:27:37,770 --> 00:27:39,626
The tibia will move a tiny bit 
more. 

569
00:27:39,626 --> 00:27:41,939
So it's good to just have good 
stability on it. 

570
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,072
That's probably my two cents on 
that. 

571
00:27:45,072 --> 00:27:45,904
Yep. 
Yep. 

572
00:27:45,904 --> 00:27:48,658
Yep. 
A lot of orthopedists may, 

573
00:27:48,658 --> 00:27:52,368
depending on who you ask and 
depending on their surgical 

574
00:27:52,368 --> 00:27:55,228
preferences, may argue with 
this, but a lot of the current 

575
00:27:55,228 --> 00:27:57,676
evidence doesn't have very good 
outcomes for a lot of the PCL 

576
00:27:57,676 --> 00:27:59,640
surgery. 
So a lot of them, even the 

577
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,040
higher grades like grade three, 
they will try a conservative 

578
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,479
non-surgical approach first just
to see what happens. 

579
00:28:04,739 --> 00:28:07,658
And the most important muscle 
that you need to work on is 

580
00:28:07,658 --> 00:28:10,795
going to be the quad because 
that is the biggest thing that's

581
00:28:10,795 --> 00:28:13,619
going to stop that posterior 
translation when you are like 

582
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:15,360
stepping downstairs or things 
like that. 

583
00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:16,900
Like that's what's going to 
handle that. 

584
00:28:17,439 --> 00:28:21,105
But I think my biggest word of 
wisdom outside of you got to 

585
00:28:21,105 --> 00:28:24,199
progress into things is get 
somebody to help you with rehab.

586
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,901
Don't try to do this on your 
own, especially with a grade 

587
00:28:26,901 --> 00:28:29,029
three. 
Make sure you've got someone 

588
00:28:29,029 --> 00:28:33,420
that specializes in knee rehab 
and is really good at that, at, 

589
00:28:33,479 --> 00:28:36,287
at progressing somebody through 
that carefully and don't rush 

590
00:28:36,287 --> 00:28:38,780
that. 
And just make sure if things are

591
00:28:38,979 --> 00:28:41,589
improving, cool. 
And you're able to return to run

592
00:28:41,589 --> 00:28:43,901
cool. 
If things are not going well and

593
00:28:43,901 --> 00:28:45,859
things are not progressing, 
you're getting excessive 

594
00:28:45,859 --> 00:28:48,579
swelling in the joint that I 
would, I would really consider 

595
00:28:48,589 --> 00:28:52,090
you, I would really encourage 
you to consider a surgical 

596
00:28:52,090 --> 00:28:54,900
consult. 
Even what I said earlier is like

597
00:28:54,900 --> 00:28:57,620
everybody with this usually 
tries conservative stuff first, 

598
00:28:57,620 --> 00:29:01,619
so just see what happens, but 
don't do this on your own. 

599
00:29:01,619 --> 00:29:04,819
Please get a professional that 
can help you progress through 

600
00:29:04,819 --> 00:29:08,280
your rehab. 
All right, next one is Andrea, 

601
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,974
or Andreas, I saw that. 
It's Andreas, and Andreas, I 

602
00:29:12,974 --> 00:29:16,334
don't know. 
I apologize if I'm so sorry. 

603
00:29:16,334 --> 00:29:19,576
I hope this is where you find 
your questions good. 

604
00:29:19,576 --> 00:29:22,690
You have got it, because that's 
it, because I have some 

605
00:29:22,690 --> 00:29:24,300
questions. 
I would love your thoughts on 

606
00:29:24,300 --> 00:29:27,098
how does the height, and 
especially weight, impact how we

607
00:29:27,098 --> 00:29:29,771
interact with running shoes. 
As someone of about 120 

608
00:29:29,771 --> 00:29:32,638
kilograms but still active, I'm 
thinking the same 40 millimeter 

609
00:29:32,638 --> 00:29:34,819
stack height must interact 
pretty differently with me in 

610
00:29:34,949 --> 00:29:36,923
contrast to an 80 kilogram 
runner. 

611
00:29:36,923 --> 00:29:40,212
Should bigger runners, both 
muscle and fat wise, look for 

612
00:29:40,212 --> 00:29:42,311
different things in running 
shoes? 

613
00:29:42,311 --> 00:29:45,938
That absolutely makes sense, and
greeting, greetings back from 

614
00:29:45,938 --> 00:29:48,333
United States. 
This is coming from Denmark. 

615
00:29:48,333 --> 00:29:52,089
And we actually, I wrote a 
Monday shakeout on this, but 

616
00:29:52,089 --> 00:29:54,867
David, what do you think? 
How do shoes interact 

617
00:29:54,867 --> 00:29:57,135
differently between larger 
runners, right? 

618
00:29:57,135 --> 00:30:01,263
So greater height, volume, 
whatever, and lighter runners. 

619
00:30:01,263 --> 00:30:04,221
There's some research on this. 
Yeah. 

620
00:30:04,221 --> 00:30:06,475
I was going to say, I know 
you're a little bit more up to 

621
00:30:06,475 --> 00:30:08,520
speed as far as the literature 
goes on that specific topic. 

622
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,040
To my knowledge, I mean, yeah, 
you're going to have a little 

623
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,944
bit more of a compressed loading
on it, of course you're coming 

624
00:30:13,944 --> 00:30:15,729
down with a little bit more 
force. 

625
00:30:15,729 --> 00:30:20,314
Stride length might be just a 
little bit shorter, maybe not 

626
00:30:20,314 --> 00:30:24,892
quite as high cadence on things,
but the ground reaction force, 

627
00:30:24,892 --> 00:30:27,244
and like the loading on the shoe
itself, you're gonna have a 

628
00:30:27,244 --> 00:30:29,809
little bit more give to the 
platform, but the geometry 

629
00:30:29,809 --> 00:30:33,625
should still hold, and in most 
of these shoes you probably will

630
00:30:33,625 --> 00:30:37,889
be okay, like, regardless of 
what the shoe is, if there are 

631
00:30:37,889 --> 00:30:41,156
stability demands that you need,
you might have to look for 

632
00:30:41,156 --> 00:30:43,412
something just a little bit 
wider and just have a little bit

633
00:30:43,412 --> 00:30:45,408
more volume around you. 
If you're a little bit bigger 

634
00:30:45,408 --> 00:30:48,106
too on the fit, might need a 
little bit of like a wider 

635
00:30:48,106 --> 00:30:51,922
option too. 
But for the most part, most 

636
00:30:51,922 --> 00:30:55,386
shoes and geometries and 
constructions, like, should hold

637
00:30:55,386 --> 00:30:58,255
up. 
I know that there was some 

638
00:30:58,255 --> 00:31:01,210
evidence as far as injury risk 
goes with lighter profile 

639
00:31:01,210 --> 00:31:03,635
runners and high stack shoes. 
Right. 

640
00:31:03,635 --> 00:31:08,514
But other than that, like 
everything that I know of is 

641
00:31:08,514 --> 00:31:14,964
pretty neutral across the board.
Yeah, I would totally agree with

642
00:31:14,964 --> 00:31:21,996
that, that a lot of the research
has suggested with a standard 

643
00:31:21,996 --> 00:31:25,704
neutral shoe, there are no 
differences in injury rates 

644
00:31:25,704 --> 00:31:27,744
between larger or lighter 
runners. 

645
00:31:27,744 --> 00:31:31,314
What ironically happens is that 
with minimalist shoes, there is 

646
00:31:31,314 --> 00:31:34,196
a little bit higher injury risk 
in larger runners. 

647
00:31:34,196 --> 00:31:37,400
Doesn't mean you can't use them.
This means that you have to 

648
00:31:37,420 --> 00:31:39,876
definitely ease into them 
because there's, you're going to

649
00:31:39,876 --> 00:31:43,153
be putting more force into the 
shoe, obviously there's less 

650
00:31:43,153 --> 00:31:45,659
there. 
However, the only group that has

651
00:31:45,659 --> 00:31:49,434
a reduction in injury with 
higher stack height shoes is 

652
00:31:49,434 --> 00:31:52,077
actually lighter runners, not 
the larger runners. 

653
00:31:52,077 --> 00:31:55,375
So things are much more 
complicated, and some of the 

654
00:31:55,375 --> 00:31:57,663
evidence has actually found that
larger runners tend to shock 

655
00:31:57,663 --> 00:31:59,956
absorb better than lighter 
runners, which is very 

656
00:31:59,956 --> 00:32:01,520
interesting. 
It might be kind of the opposite

657
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,615
of what you might expect. 
So just know that like stack 

658
00:32:04,615 --> 00:32:08,219
height wise, like unless you 
really want to do the minimalist

659
00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:11,064
thing that I would stick to 
neutral or higher stack. 

660
00:32:11,064 --> 00:32:13,880
Yes, you are going to deform the
foam a lot more. 

661
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,574
And the other thing to think 
about, like, especially if 

662
00:32:16,574 --> 00:32:19,334
you're taller, which means if 
your shoe is longer, 

663
00:32:19,334 --> 00:32:22,894
biomechanics of the shoe do 
change as your foot shape 

664
00:32:22,894 --> 00:32:25,580
lengthens, you know, and I have 
had some interesting discussions

665
00:32:25,580 --> 00:32:28,116
with those in the industry 
about, you know, people don't 

666
00:32:28,116 --> 00:32:30,795
really talk about this, but the 
longitudinal bending stiffness 

667
00:32:30,795 --> 00:32:34,937
of a size 14 is going to be very
different than a size six. 

668
00:32:34,937 --> 00:32:36,402
Those are completely different 
things. 

669
00:32:36,402 --> 00:32:39,800
How the midsole is deforming is 
going to be very and changing is

670
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:41,959
very different. 
And so you're going to deal with

671
00:32:42,060 --> 00:32:44,836
things that are stiffer and, you
know, longer. 

672
00:32:44,836 --> 00:32:48,471
So there's other things to think
about and thinking about where 

673
00:32:48,471 --> 00:32:50,330
rocker placement is. 
And the easiest way to do this 

674
00:32:50,330 --> 00:32:53,371
is you got to get the shoe on 
and be like, is this really 

675
00:32:53,371 --> 00:32:55,632
comfortable for me? 
Does this, because the comfort 

676
00:32:55,632 --> 00:32:58,768
still, regardless of height, 
size is one of the biggest 

677
00:32:58,768 --> 00:33:01,096
predictors of success. 
Really think about what you're 

678
00:33:01,096 --> 00:33:04,878
putting on your foot And just be
aware that a stiff shoe normally

679
00:33:04,878 --> 00:33:07,040
may be even stiffer at that 
larger size. 

680
00:33:07,699 --> 00:33:11,342
I would say rather than the 
midsole, the upper is probably a

681
00:33:11,342 --> 00:33:16,530
thing you need to think about. 
Because as a larger runner, not 

682
00:33:16,530 --> 00:33:21,571
always, but oftentimes the foot 
volume, I can't talk, also 

683
00:33:21,571 --> 00:33:25,099
changes as you are a larger 
runner. 

684
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,471
And a lot of shoes today have 
very low volume fits. 

685
00:33:28,471 --> 00:33:31,479
And people think about width. 
They don't think about volume. 

686
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,143
three-dimensional shape, and so 
being aware of, hey, is there 

687
00:33:35,143 --> 00:33:38,892
enough volume to begin with, 
because that also changes as the

688
00:33:38,892 --> 00:33:40,810
length of that shoe changes 
between sizes. 

689
00:33:40,810 --> 00:33:43,854
Things, oftentimes, from what I 
understand from some of my 

690
00:33:43,854 --> 00:33:47,158
runners who are size 13 and 14, 
it can feel even lower volume. 

691
00:33:47,158 --> 00:33:49,559
Some of the shoes that we've 
been like, oh, there's plenty of

692
00:33:49,559 --> 00:33:51,000
room, like, dude, this feels so 
low volume. 

693
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,206
So then it's like, that's 
something to think about longer,

694
00:33:53,206 --> 00:33:57,938
in terms of making sure you're 
looking at shoes Yep, so 

695
00:33:57,938 --> 00:34:00,567
thinking about, hey, what's the 
volume like, how is this going 

696
00:34:00,567 --> 00:34:03,313
to fit my foot, because you want
to make sure you got enough 

697
00:34:03,313 --> 00:34:05,461
room, and that also might mean 
that you need to get acquainted 

698
00:34:05,461 --> 00:34:07,415
with some of the lacing 
techniques that give you a 

699
00:34:07,415 --> 00:34:08,879
little bit more room. 
There's something called the 

700
00:34:09,020 --> 00:34:12,697
ladder lacing, where, instead of
having laces cross, you actually

701
00:34:12,697 --> 00:34:15,228
go, like, directly horizontal 
back and forth. 

702
00:34:15,228 --> 00:34:17,152
And you can look this up on the 
internet, it's great, but that 

703
00:34:17,152 --> 00:34:18,670
will give you a little bit more 
volume. 

704
00:34:18,670 --> 00:34:22,262
So I'd say watch for the upper 
especially, but you are right 

705
00:34:22,262 --> 00:34:25,489
that someone that's 120 
kilograms is going to compress a

706
00:34:25,489 --> 00:34:29,120
midsole foam a lot more than an 
80 kilogram runner, and 

707
00:34:29,580 --> 00:34:32,385
different height and foot size 
is also going to be very 

708
00:34:32,385 --> 00:34:33,659
different with how things 
interact. 

709
00:34:33,969 --> 00:34:35,880
Do we have any evidence on this?
No. 

710
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,022
Is the footwear industry kind of
aware of this? 

711
00:34:38,022 --> 00:34:40,219
Yes. 
And I'm in the process of still 

712
00:34:40,219 --> 00:34:42,820
trying to put stuff together to 
go, is what happens, how do we 

713
00:34:42,820 --> 00:34:45,449
measure this? 
So yeah, that's a great 

714
00:34:45,449 --> 00:34:49,652
question. 
So let's go to Kevin, who says, 

715
00:34:49,652 --> 00:34:54,947
I recently started a once a week
HIIT class and have been using a

716
00:34:54,947 --> 00:34:58,437
pair of GT-2000 13s. 
And while they work fine for 

717
00:34:58,437 --> 00:35:00,967
running in most lifts, I've 
noticed they aren't great for 

718
00:35:00,967 --> 00:35:03,239
plyo drills or lifts that 
require more grounded platform. 

719
00:35:04,060 --> 00:35:07,219
Which is why we often say don't 
lift in your running shoes. 

720
00:35:08,159 --> 00:35:11,543
What are some shoes that might 
work for a wide range of 

721
00:35:11,543 --> 00:35:14,355
treadmill speeds in short bursts
while being grounded enough for 

722
00:35:14,355 --> 00:35:18,310
speed drills and lifting? 
David, what do you think? 

723
00:35:18,310 --> 00:35:20,410
Actually, it's kind of funny 
because there is still some 

724
00:35:20,410 --> 00:35:24,310
treadmill involvement here. 
So you still got to be able to 

725
00:35:24,310 --> 00:35:28,379
run in the shoe, but I'm 
thinking the Topo Flylight, is 

726
00:35:28,379 --> 00:35:31,995
that the one that Andrea loves? 
I believe. 

727
00:35:31,995 --> 00:35:35,159
Yeah. 
Topo Flylight is the one that 

728
00:35:35,379 --> 00:35:36,876
Andrea loves. 
That one does very well. 

729
00:35:36,876 --> 00:35:39,814
If you can handle a more minimal
shoe, which if you're running in

730
00:35:39,814 --> 00:35:42,953
the GT-2000 13, I don't know 
that, but it is, it is something

731
00:35:42,953 --> 00:35:45,699
that a lot of people use for 
lifting on this team. 

732
00:35:45,699 --> 00:35:47,747
Yeah. 
And then another one too is the 

733
00:35:47,747 --> 00:35:50,113
Adidas Dropset Pro. 
We just had that come in. 

734
00:35:50,113 --> 00:35:52,255
It's like the perfect hybrid 
shoe there for that. 

735
00:35:52,255 --> 00:35:55,678
Now it's going to be more like 
lifting platform training side 

736
00:35:55,678 --> 00:35:59,224
of things. 
I find at running slow and easy 

737
00:35:59,224 --> 00:36:02,561
paces, it's not the greatest. 
It's definitely kind of long and

738
00:36:02,561 --> 00:36:05,240
stiff and can feel like a shank.
However, if you're going a 

739
00:36:05,240 --> 00:36:07,440
little bit quicker, like if 
you're doing like a sprint of 

740
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,509
some kind or some kind of a sled
pull or like you're turning 

741
00:36:10,509 --> 00:36:13,413
over, that stiffness actually 
carries over a little bit 

742
00:36:13,413 --> 00:36:15,263
smoother and it works well 
enough. 

743
00:36:15,263 --> 00:36:18,426
It's a Lightstrike Pro midsole, 
but they have like a torsion 

744
00:36:18,426 --> 00:36:21,870
system underneath it with the 
rods and, like, a little bit of 

745
00:36:21,870 --> 00:36:24,219
a wider base underfoot too, and 
a flatter geometry. 

746
00:36:24,219 --> 00:36:27,590
So it's not nearly as rockered 
as most of these running shoes 

747
00:36:27,590 --> 00:36:29,790
are. 
It's got just a little bit, just

748
00:36:29,790 --> 00:36:32,920
so that you can run, but, like, 
it's definitely more on the 

749
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,629
training side of things, and 
I've actually, I've lifted in it

750
00:36:35,629 --> 00:36:37,276
several times now. 
I was doing some deadlifts in 

751
00:36:37,276 --> 00:36:38,739
them the other day, and it was 
great. 

752
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:43,523
So, yeah, honestly, the Adidas 
Dropset Pro is a solid one. 

753
00:36:43,523 --> 00:36:48,535
I would say the other, the Topo 
Flylight, and then pretty much 

754
00:36:48,535 --> 00:36:51,420
any like moderate low stack, 
even the Magnifly from Topo 

755
00:36:51,420 --> 00:36:55,922
probably isn't the worst option,
but that still might be a little

756
00:36:55,922 --> 00:36:58,360
higher than you want. 
Zero's really grounded. 

757
00:36:58,699 --> 00:37:02,107
I mean, if you like the more 
barefoot minimal feel, I mean, 

758
00:37:02,107 --> 00:37:04,969
you could go there, but I feel 
like if you're running in this 

759
00:37:04,969 --> 00:37:07,272
shoe too, you just got to make 
sure you can handle that because

760
00:37:07,272 --> 00:37:09,538
I personally couldn't. 
So I have a hard time 

761
00:37:09,538 --> 00:37:13,578
recommending that. 
Yeah, I wouldn't do a jump from 

762
00:37:13,578 --> 00:37:16,118
the GT-2000 to a Zero. 
Now, if there's anything wrong 

763
00:37:16,118 --> 00:37:18,593
with Zero shoes, but that's a 
pretty big jump for running. 

764
00:37:18,593 --> 00:37:21,519
So I agree with you on that. 
But there's actually a couple of

765
00:37:21,519 --> 00:37:23,814
HYROX-type shoes out there. 
So luckily, we are starting to 

766
00:37:23,814 --> 00:37:27,140
get a couple of shoes that can 
do a little bit of both. 

767
00:37:27,140 --> 00:37:30,000
And I think the Adizero Dropset 
Pro is a great option. 

768
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:31,712
I've been using that shoe for a 
while. 

769
00:37:31,712 --> 00:37:34,596
I've got about 20 miles of 
running on it, and it's taken me

770
00:37:34,596 --> 00:37:38,706
a while because like you, I have
run in it and I can't really do 

771
00:37:38,706 --> 00:37:41,114
anything than shorter runs. 
It works great for strides. 

772
00:37:41,114 --> 00:37:43,280
Yeah, exactly. 
So you want to do some sprinting

773
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,253
stuff. 
That's what it's not meant as a 

774
00:37:46,253 --> 00:37:48,805
long distance shoe, but it can 
handle sprints. 

775
00:37:48,805 --> 00:37:52,205
It can handle lifts. 
I love doing plyos in that shoe.

776
00:37:52,205 --> 00:37:54,795
It's really comfortable. 
And the other great thing about 

777
00:37:54,795 --> 00:37:57,780
doing HIIT classes is the way 
the sole is set up is that it is

778
00:37:57,780 --> 00:37:59,915
stable. 
There's a lot of lateral flare 

779
00:37:59,915 --> 00:38:02,860
in the forefoot and midfoot so 
that, and that's one of the 

780
00:38:02,879 --> 00:38:05,959
things with running shoes, they 
don't have a lot of frontal 

781
00:38:05,959 --> 00:38:09,015
plane, like, stability isn't the
right term but because, like, 

782
00:38:09,015 --> 00:38:11,707
stability is like keeping your 
foot, like, in a more neutral 

783
00:38:11,707 --> 00:38:12,829
whatever, or supporting 
pronation. 

784
00:38:12,829 --> 00:38:15,577
This is like, hey, if you're 
like cutting side to side, can 

785
00:38:15,577 --> 00:38:18,600
your body, can it keep your foot
on the platform, this, the 

786
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,768
Dropset Pro does do that very 
well with the lateral flare, so 

787
00:38:21,768 --> 00:38:24,675
you're not going to sprain your 
ankle in that shoe, which is, 

788
00:38:24,675 --> 00:38:27,260
that's what it's good for. 
So the Dropset Pro is great. 

789
00:38:27,340 --> 00:38:30,488
The only problem I have with it 
is it takes a bit to break that 

790
00:38:30,488 --> 00:38:32,575
toe box in. 
It is a little bit tapered, but 

791
00:38:32,575 --> 00:38:35,149
once it breaks in, it's fine. 
And so I would honestly look at 

792
00:38:35,149 --> 00:38:37,279
any one of the high rocks type 
shoes. 

793
00:38:37,279 --> 00:38:41,239
Don't get the super, you know, 
super shoe versions of this 

794
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,663
stuff. 
Get the ones that are more, a 

795
00:38:43,663 --> 00:38:45,969
little more trainer one, like 
the second, second tier isn't 

796
00:38:45,969 --> 00:38:48,680
the right term, but like the non
super shoe versions. 

797
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,869
And I think you should be 
absolutely fine, but Dropset Pro

798
00:38:51,869 --> 00:38:52,921
is great also. 
Yeah. 

799
00:38:52,921 --> 00:38:55,280
A lot of people use like Nike 
Metcons too. 

800
00:38:56,340 --> 00:38:59,276
That's another popular one. 
Not the greatest, that heel is 

801
00:38:59,276 --> 00:39:00,448
awful. 
I will say. 

802
00:39:00,448 --> 00:39:03,383
So like if you're sprinting, 
great, but if you want to do 

803
00:39:03,383 --> 00:39:05,717
anything longer than that, I 
don't, again, at least training 

804
00:39:05,717 --> 00:39:09,413
shoe that can run a little bit 
fair, drops it, probably at 

805
00:39:09,413 --> 00:39:13,150
least has a beveled heel in it, 
and it does, it doesn't feel 

806
00:39:13,150 --> 00:39:15,843
good initially, but it does 
break in a little bit. 

807
00:39:15,843 --> 00:39:19,049
But yeah, so Debbie asks, here's
this interesting, I happened 

808
00:39:19,049 --> 00:39:21,959
upon your website wondering why 
you don't recommend shoes with 

809
00:39:21,959 --> 00:39:25,844
an 8-12 millimeter drop, since 
that is what most PTs recommend.

810
00:39:25,844 --> 00:39:28,668
So David, do you want to address
that? 

811
00:39:28,668 --> 00:39:34,187
I saw that email. 
I was like, I don't know how to 

812
00:39:34,187 --> 00:39:36,139
address that. 
We do. 

813
00:39:37,260 --> 00:39:41,049
But there's also a product as 
well with the market shifting to

814
00:39:41,049 --> 00:39:42,939
lower and lower drop shoes, 
though. 

815
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,843
And so there's just less 
availability of 12mm drop shoes,

816
00:39:46,843 --> 00:39:48,689
right? 
Like the Brooks Ghost, the 

817
00:39:48,689 --> 00:39:50,719
Mizuno Wave Rider, they both 
have come down. 

818
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,150
But there's definitely a handful
of situations that we recommend 

819
00:39:54,150 --> 00:39:56,288
them for, though. 
Like, especially actually 

820
00:39:56,288 --> 00:39:58,840
tendinopathy type things, get a 
little bit of higher drop. 

821
00:39:59,060 --> 00:40:01,540
We were just talking about the 
Veloci Featherweight being a 

822
00:40:01,540 --> 00:40:03,520
higher drop rocker shoe, right? 
That's eight millimeters. 

823
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:05,438
Or is that 10? 
That's 10. 

824
00:40:05,438 --> 00:40:06,979
Yeah, I was going to say. 
Yeah, yeah. 

825
00:40:06,979 --> 00:40:11,194
So that one's higher up. 
And per Andrea, Andrea said it 

826
00:40:11,194 --> 00:40:13,839
felt like 14. 
Yeah, Andrea? 

827
00:40:13,839 --> 00:40:17,540
Yeah, Andrea, sorry. 
It's okay, we're tired. 

828
00:40:18,580 --> 00:40:19,644
I'm sure she won't take it 
personally. 

829
00:40:19,644 --> 00:40:21,159
I'm going to get a hard time for
that later. 

830
00:40:23,479 --> 00:40:25,709
But no, we definitely recommend 
some higher drop shoes every 

831
00:40:25,709 --> 00:40:28,025
once in a while. 
I mean, we just try to recommend

832
00:40:28,025 --> 00:40:30,463
what's appropriate. 
And a lot of times, like what 

833
00:40:30,463 --> 00:40:32,520
people are asking for, what 
might fit certain profiles, 

834
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,179
sometimes it is a little bit 
more of a rockered experience. 

835
00:40:35,419 --> 00:40:37,804
And a lot of the rockered shoes 
do tend to be a little bit lower

836
00:40:37,804 --> 00:40:39,963
in drop. 
And for those reasons, maybe we 

837
00:40:39,963 --> 00:40:43,740
recommend something that is more
in that four to six range for 

838
00:40:43,740 --> 00:40:47,040
those specific individuals. 
But by no means is it exclusive 

839
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,188
to that. 
We definitely recommend eight 

840
00:40:49,188 --> 00:40:51,260
plus for a good handful of 
people. 

841
00:40:52,439 --> 00:40:56,349
I would also kind of go the 
opposite way that a lot of the 

842
00:40:56,349 --> 00:40:59,139
PTs I know are like diehard 
minimalist low drop shoes. 

843
00:40:59,820 --> 00:41:02,327
And I think we're one of the few
people that would go, hey, you 

844
00:41:02,327 --> 00:41:05,441
need to find what works for you.
I think, you know, and I said 

845
00:41:05,441 --> 00:41:08,639
this the other day talking about
the video I did on heel lifts 

846
00:41:08,639 --> 00:41:11,825
that I think a lot of shoes 
moving into more of a moderate 

847
00:41:11,825 --> 00:41:14,765
like six to eight millimeter 
drop isn't a bad thing for most 

848
00:41:14,765 --> 00:41:17,946
of the population. 
However, we have lost all the 

849
00:41:17,946 --> 00:41:20,439
high drop shoes and I don't 
think that's good. 

850
00:41:20,500 --> 00:41:22,564
Well, not all of them. 
We got Veloci. 

851
00:41:22,564 --> 00:41:25,402
But I don't think that's good 
because we need some variability

852
00:41:25,402 --> 00:41:28,498
because there are lots of people
that do extremely well with high

853
00:41:28,498 --> 00:41:30,820
drop shoes. 
And that's why I just did the 

854
00:41:30,820 --> 00:41:33,916
episode on heel lifts because 
we've lost so many that if you 

855
00:41:33,916 --> 00:41:36,754
need a higher drop, that's kind 
of the only option left. 

856
00:41:36,754 --> 00:41:39,592
Like me managing my Achilles 
tendon right now with low drop 

857
00:41:39,592 --> 00:41:41,912
stuff, it's the only way I get 
miles in. 

858
00:41:41,912 --> 00:41:44,739
So I don't think it's not that 
we don't recommend them. 

859
00:41:44,739 --> 00:41:47,566
It's that we're not going to 
recommend any shoe for the 

860
00:41:47,566 --> 00:41:48,846
overall population. 
It depends. 

861
00:41:48,846 --> 00:41:51,393
It does what you need match with
that shoe. 

862
00:41:51,393 --> 00:41:53,934
There is no such thing as a 
perfect shoe. 

863
00:41:53,934 --> 00:41:55,710
Shoes are tools. 
You have to find what matches 

864
00:41:55,710 --> 00:41:58,810
for you. 
And we do recommend them all the

865
00:41:58,810 --> 00:42:01,510
time for Achilles tendon issues 
or people that are having 

866
00:42:01,510 --> 00:42:03,580
problems with getting enough 
dorsiflexion. 

867
00:42:03,580 --> 00:42:06,015
And that's definitely a thing 
where they're in a more plantar 

868
00:42:06,015 --> 00:42:08,869
flexor foot pointed position. 
They just can't get the range of

869
00:42:08,869 --> 00:42:11,264
motion necessary to get through 
a normal gait cycle. 

870
00:42:11,264 --> 00:42:14,900
A high drop shoe is great. 
That's going to be good because 

871
00:42:14,900 --> 00:42:16,520
not everyone can improve their 
dorsiflexion. 

872
00:42:16,739 --> 00:42:19,067
And I just had a conversation 
with one of my students about 

873
00:42:19,067 --> 00:42:22,773
this to go, you know, we as PTs 
get really excited about, can we

874
00:42:22,773 --> 00:42:25,491
rehab this? 
But you have to realize that not

875
00:42:25,491 --> 00:42:28,240
everybody can like progress. 
You know, sometimes there are 

876
00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:29,840
certain things that they, it may
not change. 

877
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,615
And then you need to switch and 
go, how do we teach you to still

878
00:42:32,615 --> 00:42:34,895
get through life? 
How do we, and compensate isn't,

879
00:42:34,895 --> 00:42:38,613
isn't like sexy word, but it's 
how do we help you compensate so

880
00:42:38,613 --> 00:42:40,379
you can achieve normal gait, 
normal function. 

881
00:42:40,379 --> 00:42:42,899
And some people just need a 
higher heel drop shoe. 

882
00:42:43,419 --> 00:42:47,474
And that's the way it goes. 
And so, yes, for the right 

883
00:42:47,474 --> 00:42:49,159
person, we absolutely recommend 
them. 

884
00:42:49,639 --> 00:42:52,265
And yeah, 8 to 12, at least 
there's still 8 to 10 millimeter

885
00:42:52,265 --> 00:42:54,075
drop shoes. 
So we do those all the time. 

886
00:42:54,075 --> 00:42:56,420
But 12 to 12. 
Lacking. 

887
00:42:56,420 --> 00:42:59,780
Is there any 12 millimeters on 
the market you can think of? 

888
00:42:59,979 --> 00:43:03,228
Now that the Ghost has come down
and now that the Wave Rider has 

889
00:43:03,228 --> 00:43:05,780
come down, I'm not sure that I 
can think of one. 

890
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,867
The 880 is at an 8, right? 
Or 10? 

891
00:43:08,867 --> 00:43:10,910
Yeah. 
I think it's actually, if I 

892
00:43:10,910 --> 00:43:13,820
remember, it might be 6 to 8. 
Yeah, it's low. 

893
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:18,003
It's not high anymore. 
So off the top of my head, 

894
00:43:18,003 --> 00:43:20,468
standard kind of more common 
running shoes. 

895
00:43:20,468 --> 00:43:24,004
No. 
Yeah, like maybe Xtep or Anta 

896
00:43:24,004 --> 00:43:26,914
might have something, but I 
don't remember anything super 

897
00:43:26,914 --> 00:43:28,692
high from No, they tend to be 
lower. 

898
00:43:28,692 --> 00:43:30,760
Yeah, I was going to say, 
they're usually a little lower. 

899
00:43:30,870 --> 00:43:33,367
Xtep had a couple that were 
higher though, if I remember 

900
00:43:33,367 --> 00:43:35,899
correctly, but. 
I don't know if this shoe is 

901
00:43:35,899 --> 00:43:37,699
still available because I 
remember last time, but I think 

902
00:43:37,699 --> 00:43:41,259
the Brooks Addiction was a 12 
millimeter drop, but I don't, I 

903
00:43:41,259 --> 00:43:42,739
think that shoe's been 
discontinued. 

904
00:43:42,739 --> 00:43:48,657
And the Pegasus is at 10, right?
Yes, yeah, so that's not a 12. 

905
00:43:48,657 --> 00:43:52,387
Like, are we really, there's 
really not anything in the 

906
00:43:52,387 --> 00:43:54,642
mainstream running. 
I, there are, I don't remember 

907
00:43:54,642 --> 00:43:56,899
the names of these companies, 
but they're not major running 

908
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:58,728
brands. 
There are some 12 millimeter 

909
00:43:58,728 --> 00:44:02,479
drop shoes out there, but it's 
not going to be from any of the 

910
00:44:02,790 --> 00:44:05,737
major brands out there. 
That's all disappeared. 

911
00:44:05,737 --> 00:44:09,995
So hope that answers that. 
All right, Oban asks, hey all, 

912
00:44:09,995 --> 00:44:12,348
first of all, I absolutely love 
Doctors of Running, so someone 

913
00:44:12,348 --> 00:44:14,594
who's gotten more into distance 
running, certainly has stability

914
00:44:14,594 --> 00:44:16,238
needs. 
Your podcast reviews and other 

915
00:44:16,238 --> 00:44:18,417
entire content has been very 
helpful. 

916
00:44:18,417 --> 00:44:21,665
Too long, didn't read. 
Tempest 2s have been 

917
00:44:21,665 --> 00:44:23,285
discontinued. 
A sad day. 

918
00:44:23,285 --> 00:44:26,194
Tell me about it. 
Any recommendations on what I 

919
00:44:26,194 --> 00:44:29,109
should be looking for or looking
at in my next shoe? 

920
00:44:29,109 --> 00:44:31,961
More context, I've always run in
stability shoes and love my 

921
00:44:31,961 --> 00:44:33,620
Tempest 2s. 
They've been my daily training 

922
00:44:33,659 --> 00:44:36,239
and Tempest shoe for 700 miles 
across three pairs, working 

923
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,744
through my third. 
I've been seeing a physio for a 

924
00:44:38,744 --> 00:44:41,630
while now to work on my ankle 
foot issues, and as my current 

925
00:44:41,630 --> 00:44:43,575
pair of Tempest 2s are coming to
their lives. 

926
00:44:43,575 --> 00:44:45,638
I've been trying to figure out 
what I should be using. 

927
00:44:45,638 --> 00:44:48,154
And the reason I keep saying 
tempo is Adidas, you should 

928
00:44:48,154 --> 00:44:49,561
totally bring back the Adizero 
Tempo. 

929
00:44:49,561 --> 00:44:51,199
I've already gone off on that 
before. 

930
00:44:53,179 --> 00:44:55,808
While my whole life I've been 
told I overpronate, my physio, 

931
00:44:55,808 --> 00:44:58,719
after a lot of work, has 
explained it to me like this. 

932
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,469
I actually have a higher than 
normal arches confirmed by foot 

933
00:45:01,469 --> 00:45:03,337
scan. 
And please, please remember that

934
00:45:03,337 --> 00:45:05,569
foot scans statically do not 
tell you anything. 

935
00:45:05,569 --> 00:45:09,703
So you have a higher arch, cool.
You need to see how you move. 

936
00:45:09,703 --> 00:45:12,295
And very rigid feet, they don't 
pronate very well. 

937
00:45:12,295 --> 00:45:15,111
And I actually inwards in my 
ankles rather than my feet. 

938
00:45:15,111 --> 00:45:17,500
And this can happen in a couple 
of different ways. 

939
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:21,110
So a lot of people look at the 
mid, this is me. 

940
00:45:21,110 --> 00:45:24,999
A lot of people look at the 
midfoot as the only place you 

941
00:45:24,999 --> 00:45:28,184
pronate, but you can pronate at 
the forefoot, the midfoot, the 

942
00:45:28,184 --> 00:45:31,411
rear foot, like any, you can 
have eversion and the combined 

943
00:45:31,411 --> 00:45:34,425
motions at any point. 
You can also have it driven from

944
00:45:34,425 --> 00:45:37,796
up higher, where you actually 
get a little bit more at the 

945
00:45:37,796 --> 00:45:40,976
talocrural joint, which isn't as
good, but people do it, just, 

946
00:45:40,976 --> 00:45:45,442
and they can be driven by the 
hip, but, yes, this can look a 

947
00:45:45,442 --> 00:45:48,337
lot like overpronation, but 
isn't the same as pronation 

948
00:45:48,337 --> 00:45:50,994
happening at the foot level. 
The physio is recommending I 

949
00:45:50,994 --> 00:45:53,035
look at a stable, neutral, 
stability shoes with guidance 

950
00:45:53,035 --> 00:45:55,355
elements, because an intrusive 
medial post or arch support 

951
00:45:55,355 --> 00:45:58,199
actually might get in the way of
my natural, limited pronation 

952
00:45:58,679 --> 00:46:01,077
Yes, this is why it depends. 
Just because you see something 

953
00:46:01,077 --> 00:46:03,243
move, don't just be like, 
absolutely, stability shoe, 

954
00:46:03,243 --> 00:46:06,056
because you'll see people that 
pronate, or look like they 

955
00:46:06,056 --> 00:46:09,899
pronate, you put them the 
stability and everything hurts. 

956
00:46:09,899 --> 00:46:14,589
So any recommendations for 
replacing the Tempest twos, as 

957
00:46:14,589 --> 00:46:17,424
well as Endorphin Pro 4s for 
racing speed work? 

958
00:46:17,424 --> 00:46:20,941
David, what do you think? 
That was, sorry, oh, you're 

959
00:46:20,941 --> 00:46:23,200
good, super long. 
I think, like, what I'm hearing 

960
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,421
is that, like, having a little 
bit of lateral sole flaring and 

961
00:46:26,421 --> 00:46:28,290
bias could be a good thing 
there. 

962
00:46:28,290 --> 00:46:31,464
I think of someone like Andrea, 
where, like, if, like, if you 

963
00:46:31,464 --> 00:46:34,090
are landing a little bit more on
the outer part and you roll 

964
00:46:34,090 --> 00:46:36,565
outwards, and, like, you want to
be able to resist some of those 

965
00:46:36,565 --> 00:46:38,131
movements when you're rolling 
out towards your ankles, not 

966
00:46:38,131 --> 00:46:41,122
saying you supinate super hard, 
but if you have a tendency to go

967
00:46:41,122 --> 00:46:43,707
that way, yeah, it probably 
would be good to have some 

968
00:46:43,707 --> 00:46:46,258
lateral sole flare. 
I would say, I think what 

969
00:46:46,258 --> 00:46:49,740
they're looking for is that more
like a lighter, faster, stable, 

970
00:46:49,740 --> 00:46:52,140
neutral ride, where it's not 
excessively flared one 

971
00:46:52,140 --> 00:46:55,300
direction, but still kind of but
that was great, what was the 

972
00:46:55,300 --> 00:46:57,720
Tempest, was that, you know, 
that worked for the whole team 

973
00:46:57,720 --> 00:47:00,270
because it wasn't biased in one 
direction, it kept you in the 

974
00:47:00,270 --> 00:47:01,452
middle. 
Yeah, I think that's what 

975
00:47:01,452 --> 00:47:03,815
they're looking for. 
So did the Hyperion GTS. 

976
00:47:03,815 --> 00:47:07,319
I'm not salty about it. 
But I'm looking for something 

977
00:47:07,319 --> 00:47:10,571
like a little bit more stable. 
We're both salty about it. 

978
00:47:10,571 --> 00:47:11,459
Yeah, yeah. 
It's fine. 

979
00:47:12,459 --> 00:47:15,660
Yeah, the Hyperion GTS was like 
the go-to for that 

980
00:47:15,660 --> 00:47:18,860
recommendation for a little bit.
But yeah, looking for something.

981
00:47:19,070 --> 00:47:22,228
It was amazing, Brooks. 
Oh, no. 

982
00:47:22,228 --> 00:47:27,488
But, no, I mean, well, she 
really likes the Hyperwarp. 

983
00:47:27,488 --> 00:47:30,710
Adidas, Brooks. 
Man, you guys kill great shoes. 

984
00:47:30,710 --> 00:47:33,419
The Hyperwarp Pro is one that 
comes to mind. 

985
00:47:33,610 --> 00:47:36,622
Yeah, but the Hyperwarp Pro is 
not stable by any means on the 

986
00:47:36,622 --> 00:47:38,239
medial side. 
Not on the medial side. 

987
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,152
On the lateral side it is. 
But looking at something stable,

988
00:47:41,152 --> 00:47:45,259
you got like the Hoka Mach X3. 
That one's pretty good at 

989
00:47:45,259 --> 00:47:48,100
getting you through. 
Like that rocker is pretty 

990
00:47:48,100 --> 00:47:51,040
centered and keeps you. 
It's aggressive, but it does 

991
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,199
keep you centered pretty well. 
That's one that comes to mind. 

992
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:58,803
This is going to be really 
expensive, but probably one of 

993
00:47:58,803 --> 00:48:01,729
the better like lightweight, 
stable, neutral shoes. that 

994
00:48:01,729 --> 00:48:06,629
would fit a higher arch is going
to be the On Cloud Monster Hyper

995
00:48:06,629 --> 00:48:10,544
3 LS, and it's stiff enough that
it acts kind of like a super 

996
00:48:10,544 --> 00:48:12,408
shoe. 
Arch is very high, so that will 

997
00:48:12,408 --> 00:48:15,060
probably fit your foot. 
It is very stable, aggressively 

998
00:48:15,060 --> 00:48:17,220
stable, neutral, like, 
especially if you roll in at 

999
00:48:17,220 --> 00:48:20,640
all, it's not gonna it'll, it's 
not posted, but it will keep you

1000
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:22,720
very stable. 
So that's actually one of the 

1001
00:48:22,720 --> 00:48:28,112
top shoes I can think of, off 
the top of my head. 361 Flame 

1002
00:48:28,112 --> 00:48:30,548
series is also very stable, 
neutral. 

1003
00:48:30,548 --> 00:48:33,131
It's also not super expensive, 
like, definitely more 

1004
00:48:33,131 --> 00:48:36,340
affordable, and super durable, 
and works very well as a workout

1005
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:38,710
for a lot of people. 
It'll work well as a racing shoe

1006
00:48:38,710 --> 00:48:40,500
too, if you just need a little 
bit more there. 

1007
00:48:40,500 --> 00:48:42,535
So those are really good 
options. 

1008
00:48:42,535 --> 00:48:45,205
Nothing's going to quite emulate
the Tempest 2, if you've 

1009
00:48:45,205 --> 00:48:48,522
listened to us, the Tempest 3 
does exist, it's only available 

1010
00:48:48,522 --> 00:48:50,310
over in the Asian market 
especially. 

1011
00:48:50,310 --> 00:48:54,111
So, and you can find a couple of
them on eBay, they're really 

1012
00:48:54,111 --> 00:48:56,340
expensive, so, but, and it's way
more aggressive. 

1013
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:00,420
The fit isn't as good as the 
other Tempest is. 

1014
00:49:00,420 --> 00:49:05,695
But yeah, I think the On Cloud, 
I can't, Cloud Monster Hyper 3 

1015
00:49:05,695 --> 00:49:09,352
LS, which I just totally said 
wrong, 361 Flame are going to be

1016
00:49:09,352 --> 00:49:11,360
shoes that are going to do well 
there. 

1017
00:49:11,699 --> 00:49:15,703
I can't suggest the Rocket X3 
from Hoka because it's very 

1018
00:49:15,703 --> 00:49:18,977
laterally biased. 
So you may not like that as 

1019
00:49:18,977 --> 00:49:20,864
much. 
I wouldn't call it as stable 

1020
00:49:20,864 --> 00:49:22,640
neutral. 
Like you really get pivoted off 

1021
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:25,664
the lateral side, but you may 
find if you want that. but, 

1022
00:49:25,664 --> 00:49:28,119
again, it's not, it's not a 
trainer, it's a super shoe, it 

1023
00:49:28,119 --> 00:49:31,275
doesn't have the training 
versatility that you might want 

1024
00:49:31,275 --> 00:49:33,648
personally. 
So yeah, that's the stuff off 

1025
00:49:33,648 --> 00:49:37,739
the top of my head. 
How do we feel about the Saucony

1026
00:49:37,739 --> 00:49:40,375
Endorphin Azura for this? 
You know, that's actually, I, 

1027
00:49:40,375 --> 00:49:44,512
that's a good option, I think it
could move if you want to do 

1028
00:49:44,512 --> 00:49:47,801
really fast track stuff, it 
doesn't do that very well, but 

1029
00:49:47,801 --> 00:49:50,674
longer tempo efforts it does 
great. 

1030
00:49:50,674 --> 00:49:54,760
That's a great suggestion, just 
know it's fairly stable, 

1031
00:49:54,780 --> 00:49:56,028
neutral. 
There's a little bit of lateral 

1032
00:49:56,028 --> 00:49:58,520
bias, but I have a friend of 
mine who's running in it that I 

1033
00:49:58,620 --> 00:50:00,892
thought was going to be 
sensitive to it and it didn't 

1034
00:50:00,892 --> 00:50:02,540
bother him. 
So that could be another great 

1035
00:50:02,729 --> 00:50:04,539
option kind of along the lines 
of the Mach X3. 

1036
00:50:04,539 --> 00:50:06,856
You can find us on all the 
different social media channels,

1037
00:50:06,856 --> 00:50:09,068
Instagram, obviously Facebook, 
LinkedIn, all this different 

1038
00:50:09,068 --> 00:50:11,527
areas. 
If you want to follow what we're

1039
00:50:11,527 --> 00:50:13,997
doing, you can obviously find 
this on all the different 

1040
00:50:13,997 --> 00:50:15,883
places. 
You can listen to podcasts, be 

1041
00:50:15,883 --> 00:50:17,449
it Spotify and all those 
different areas. 

1042
00:50:17,449 --> 00:50:20,349
And if you're watching this, you
can see this on YouTube because 

1043
00:50:20,349 --> 00:50:22,985
this drops every single week. 
We both have an audio version of

1044
00:50:22,985 --> 00:50:24,860
this. 
If you want to go listen to it. 

1045
00:50:24,860 --> 00:50:26,190
Please, if you're driving, don't
watch us. 

1046
00:50:26,190 --> 00:50:28,472
But if you want to listen to 
while you're running, driving, 

1047
00:50:28,472 --> 00:50:30,934
stuff like that, all the audio 
platforms, but if you want to 

1048
00:50:30,934 --> 00:50:33,975
see us and you want to put up 
with looking at us and watching 

1049
00:50:33,975 --> 00:50:36,907
us get through this episode, you
can find us on YouTube every 

1050
00:50:36,907 --> 00:50:38,275
week. 
So thanks as always for 

1051
00:50:38,275 --> 00:50:40,326
listening to us. 
Hope that was helpful and we'll 

1052
00:50:40,326 --> 00:50:42,965
see you soon out there wherever 
you are. 

1053
00:50:42,965 --> 00:50:43,199
Peace.