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This episode of the doctors are 
running podcast is sponsored by 

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our friends at running warehouse
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warehouse.com. 
Everyone, welcome to the doctors

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running podcaster. 
We a group of doctors, Physical 

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Therapy, talk about the art, and
the science of the things we're 

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putting on our feet today. 
I am very honored to have both 

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dr. 
Gem Sumner and dr. 

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Evan day, join us from Brooks 
running and take some time. 

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They're busy week on a Sunday 
night to come talk with us and 

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geek out and geek out not just 
on shoes but by mechanics and 

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all kinds of stuff that we're 
going to talk about. 

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So Jen, Evan, thank you so much 
for joining us. 

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Really appreciate it. 
Thank you, awesome. 

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So I really want to introduce 
both of you and if you could 

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give me a little background, I'm
going to try my best, but you're

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probably going to have to 
correct me for me, pulling stuff

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from your LinkedIn accounts and 
doing some background research. 

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But I just want to introduce you
to To both of them are 

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phenomenal. 
Phds and researchers that have 

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had pretty cool careers and then
coming up to Brooks running both

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coming from different areas 
which I did not realize first 

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before Brooks. 
Jen, did her master's at 

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University of Michigan? 
Did her PhD at University of 

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Calgary with been oneg? 
Which is pretty sweet. 

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And we got to get a little bit 
about that when you tour nice 

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enough to have me up and 
entertain me while. 

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I ask you a billion questions up
at Brooks a couple months ago. 

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Evan is a did his master's at 
Iowa State University. 

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He did his PhD at University of 
Oregon, which is pretty sweet. 

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And then you both have now moved
on to Brooks and Jen, please. 

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Correct me if I'm wrong. 
You are the director run 

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research, Evan. 
You are the manager of run 

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performance? 
Can you tell us? 

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Did I miss anything? 
Anything you would like to 

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expand on about your journey? 
Is it how you got to Brooks? 

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Yeah, Yeah. 
You mentioned telling a little 

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bit how you ended up in. 
Kind of this Avenue of a career 

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as well. 
So I always go back and think of

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like how did I end up back in to
you back into here? 

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The first pitch, I was actually 
getting into like the injury 

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space was a sportsman program. 
I didn't high school for two 

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years which was phenomenal and 
Northern California, where I 

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grew up and my brother was 
blind, my brother passed away. 

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So he was blind through his 
whole life and I was always 

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generally around having to deal 
with the physical disability, 

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that impacted his way of living 
and it translated to me. 

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Into an injury space and 
interest kind of throughout life

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and especially in an athlete 
scope where that really impacts 

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part of your identity and how 
you're showing up and what you 

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get to do, and what you love, 
and I kind of was came from it 

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from that angle, just kind of 
Switched how I focused on it. 

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I focused on ergonomics through 
my undergrad and engineering and

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workplace design to prevent 
injury. 

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I was coming from where the 
prevention, space, my masters at

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Michigan. 
As you mentioned, I was more 

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coming from the treatment space 
was doing tissue engineering to 

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help nerve replacement for nerve
damage and missed humans. 

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Once I kind of did a lot with 
rats and that stage and kind of 

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wanted to come back to talking 
to, and that's why I work for 

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bento, I went to bed, I worked 
with him and at his consulting 

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company for a few years. 
Before I did my training with 

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him through my doctorate, and 
that's where I really got into 

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performance gear. 
He has consulting company, did 

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everything from hockey, hockey 
gear to Road Bicycles to running

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shoes, to neuropathy Matt's. 
It was really the whole Gambit 

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and I enjoyed getting to see a 
lot of very applied product. 

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In the space of performance and 
their wide range of application 

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there. 
And so I decided to stay and do 

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my PhD with him and then when 
luckily, he was able to get into

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the industry, it is a kind of a 
small space to enter to work 

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directly with industry. 
So I got pretty fortunate there 

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and did a year and a half or so 
at New Balance before. 

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Now, I've been at Brooks for 
about six years. 

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That's a, that's my like four 
and a half minutes, feel of 

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prayer group that was perfect. 
I need to learn how to do that 

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to be that sustain that was 
awesome. 

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My students would thank you. 
Everybody about you. 

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Yeah, I'm the owner of the head.
I mean, I've been a runner since

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day one. 
I've always loved it. 

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Just since middle school, you 
know, put on spikes race and 

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friends. 
All that type of thing, just 

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maybe fall in love and classic. 
No. 

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Got the tibial stress fracture. 
Lost a season. 

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Had a sportsman doc. 
I didn't really like, and that 

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got me really curious and how 
the human body functions and 

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everything of that sort. 
So I thought I was going to go 

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the clinical route and no human 
body interested Focus their. 

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So starting a Kinesiology 
program and I didn't even know 

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biomechanics existed. 
When I started undergrad, this 

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is Circa what 2009 and so like 
the only Sports may think really

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finds like Ross Tucker's website
back in the day and I guess the 

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only thing out there back then 
and great information but the 

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only thing and sure enough you 
know saw the flyer, get paid 10 

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bucks, come run around in the 
lab for 45 minutes. 

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I'm like done deal and one of 
The Graduate students at the 

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time, no super gracious with 
just like me being able to ask 

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all the questions. 
Learn. 

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All this was like, wait, you're 
studying running like 

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professionally like what is this
to everything and the light bulb

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went off. 
Then I was like, oh, you can 

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actually like be on the front 
end of asking the questions and 

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no not like in the Clinica 
applying it and so fell. 

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In love immediately had an 
amazing time there with dr. 

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Jason Gillette is my Master's 
advisor really set me up with a 

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lot of tools and just really, 
really for me in the early years

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and then yeah, I found myself 
going right over Oregon to work 

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with dr. 
Mike Hahn there and quite a 

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phenomenal for you to say the 
least it was is incredible there

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with him as well. 
And then yeah, short standing at

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Adidas after that and did the 
entire flip and did basketball 

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for actually for half a year, 
which was all of a sudden, like,

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what is this cutting movement 
and these powerful jumps, I have

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to think about how a footwear 
interacts with the human body 

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during these and what is 
traction and all that type of 

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pain problems. 
And that's a really fun one 

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though, really being able to get
like the engineering skills like

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living with mechanical testing 
and really with all like the 

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forces placement, graphs and 
everything, and once that 

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contract wrapped up found 
myself, coming up here to Brooks

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and it's been three years since 
then. 

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So it's been, it's been awesome 
one, but I always knew I wanted 

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to get into the Footwear for 
sure. 

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You have to say the least. 
It's awesome. 

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That's great. 
I'm going to ask an off topic. 

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Question for both of you. 
What is a hidden skill or 

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ability that our listeners? 
Might not know about you that 

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you would like to share. 
Oh man professionally or just 

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like in general. 
No. 

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Just in general, just a general.
Yeah. 

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Well, what we'll go easy? 
I like to shred heavy metal in 

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that guitar right there. 
How about that? 

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Yeah that's what yeah wall yep, 
heavy metal done deal. 

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I was grieving on Evans, 
Instagram page me. 

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Like that's a lot of benefit 
increase all guitars on 

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Instagram. 
I was like, I did not know this 

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about you does. 
He whip that out at work? 

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And as you guys can see, people 
see what happens with the 

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personality. 
It's pretty sweet. 

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I like it. 
Mmm, that's good. 

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Jay, what about you? 
My skill, this like, my 

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eight-year-old spirit that will 
come through. 

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I'm like, a really Avid 
scrapbooker so I could scrapbook

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the crap out of anything and 
make you a really good lifelong 

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momento. 
So I'm like, are downstairs. 

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Fill the scrapbooks that I still
look at regularly. 

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It's awesome. 
My husband to try to make one in

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his was pretty poor. 
So I'm like, okay, I think all 

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of that is so that we can do 
this. 

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It is a skill that's very true. 
So you have a scrapbooker and a 

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heavy metal guitarists coming 
and joining us to talk about by 

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very well together. 
So we, you two are very kind to 

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give me a bunch of time. 
And I actually got in trouble 

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for sticking around when I was 
supposed to be at some meeting 

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with everybody else, but it was 
so funny. 

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You can't, I just commend both 
of you on your work and as well,

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the lab that you have makes me 
both It's incredible. 

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I'm also a little jealous as I'm
dealing with the side effects of

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not having an instrumented 
tremble and having to do running

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across Ground Force plate. 
So, I love what you guys have. 

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It's phenomenal. 
I'm curious if you could help 

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because a lot of people when 
they're in the running Spike, 

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their Runners running space. 
I don't know if people realize 

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how involved developing a shoe 
is. 

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And for that reason, could you 
both give a little insight for a

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listeners into? 
What does it mean to be a 

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running Footwear biomechanist 
and researcher? 

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Look like if and I were just 
talking about this because we 

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were getting ready to mine 
because it was like, what do we 

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think? 
You know, what would be nice for

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people to understand more? 
And I was saying more, like 

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social media. 
I find like I'm such an 

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emotional person, you'll read 
comments and social media and I 

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would be like oh they didn't 
care about anything when they 

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built this and it was like, man.
I wish you knew how many hands 

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touch that to so many very 
little he's like a group of 

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people's baby here. 
Yeah, nothing but it is. 

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It's a lot, it's an extremely 
collaborative process to build. 

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Build will stick within the 
running product where we live, 

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but extremely collaborative 
everything from your kind of 

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core units. 
That work on it from your 

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developer product line manager. 
The designer says, by 

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mechanistic assisting and 
supporting through the scope of 

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human movement. 
But that's just even on the 

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build side you go through to 
actually getting it out to 

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Market and going through sales 
and going through everything 

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else. 
It's just insane. 

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How much goes into one shoe to 
have its space and It to the 

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runner in a way that resonates 
with them, communicate it to 

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different communities with its 
clinical, as well, what 

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resonates with them, which is 
different than what resonates 

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with your average Runner. 
So, just the amount of the 

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amount of thoughtfulness that 
really goes into each product is

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really astounding and amount of 
collaboration that's needed to 

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get. 
There is really, it's really 

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fun. 
That's the part that I love most

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about being an industry is just 
the things. 

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You think about all day long or 
definitely not the things the 

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person next to you about all day
long and how do you bring your 

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brain spaces together? 
Other to get that to come out. 

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So I know that was answering 
your specific. 

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Start question. 
You were talking about the lab, 

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but I was like, I went away into
the hole, that's okay. 

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It's what I'm hearing is that be
as a biomech is probably one of 

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the biggest thing is being a 
Laura member of a large team, 

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right learning to work together.
Yeah. 

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Evan, yeah. 
I'd say that's definitely the 

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biggest thing. 
It's more than just like, shoe 

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showing up at your desk. 
Test them and report card out 

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where Clyburn in the entire way 
across. 

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Like when a product line manager
is writing a For the next season

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of a shoe, you know, we're 
handing off like, hey, here's 

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our opinion on shoes on the 
market right now. 

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Here's what we learned from 
testing last season here is 

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where no we think these 
opportunities could come here is

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new insights. 
We did analyzing old data. 

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We learned about Runners and 
really you know getting all this

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information. 
How shoes will biomechanical 

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00:11:31,500 --> 00:11:33,800
affect some wonder? 
How someone can have that fit? 

230
00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,900
Feel right interaction with the 
shooter really maximize it for 

231
00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,800
what that shoe needs to achieve.
And so we're really Involved in 

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like the conceptual side, just 
again, being a voice in the 

233
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room, not driving, but always 
having that collaboration of 

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really, helping set a path. 
And then yeah, down to like, 

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what I like to call functional 
design, you know, I'm looking 

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00:11:52,700 --> 00:11:56,100
over 2D blueprints all the time.
3D renders of shoes looking at 

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like, little geometries of how 
she was gonna collapse in some 

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point or bend in a certain spot.
And thinking about how is that 

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person going to be interacting 
with that shoe? 

240
00:12:05,700 --> 00:12:09,400
And no, that's ultimately what 
we test and get feedback on and 

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then to Point. 
We also then work with marketing

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00:12:12,500 --> 00:12:13,700
help. 
Go all the way to sales, which 

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00:12:13,700 --> 00:12:16,800
is what you had the pleasure of 
seeing you when you're up at HQ 

244
00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,100
and everything too. 
And so it's really fun. 

245
00:12:19,100 --> 00:12:21,400
It's a lot of like the 
nitty-gritty science but a lot 

246
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of like the big level 
collaboration with a lot of 

247
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people and everyone touching the
shoe as well which is it's a 

248
00:12:26,908 --> 00:12:28,500
great process. 
It's fun spot. 

249
00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,600
Yeah. 
One one comment that just took 

250
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,600
stood out to me, as you 
mentioned that you are both 

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00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,700
looking at Trends. 
Currently you were looking at 

252
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previous data and you're also 
projecting. 

253
00:12:39,700 --> 00:12:43,700
So you have to Do current your 
current past and future all at 

254
00:12:43,700 --> 00:12:45,900
the same time. 
Looking at what an integrating? 

255
00:12:45,900 --> 00:12:48,100
All those at the same time. 
Yep. 

256
00:12:48,100 --> 00:12:49,900
Yeah. 
So that's all that sounds like a

257
00:12:49,900 --> 00:12:55,100
lot to handle all at once. 
Yeah, I'm doing use a season 

258
00:12:55,100 --> 00:12:58,200
that has several iterations each
time and your brain switches 

259
00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,300
between each of those shoes 
constantly. 

260
00:13:00,300 --> 00:13:02,600
It's you're thinking about 
choose a lot. 

261
00:13:02,700 --> 00:13:06,100
Yeah yeah. 
So what is a daily or weekly 

262
00:13:06,100 --> 00:13:10,000
agenda look like for two of you 
if you could say that unless 

263
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:11,400
there's Secrets that we can't 
talk about. 

264
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,800
But yeah, we probably be a 
little different with Evan and I

265
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,700
do day-to-day Evans definitely 
in it on the product build 

266
00:13:18,700 --> 00:13:23,600
pretty heavily. 
I've come a little more removed 

267
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:28,100
in the director role model, be 
often more scoping through 

268
00:13:28,100 --> 00:13:30,100
Research. 
In addition to like products, 

269
00:13:30,100 --> 00:13:32,800
that's understanding the 
immediate reaction of a product 

270
00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,800
or how that's influencing 
movement to just how we 

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understand movement, what is our
scope of what is run signature 

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00:13:39,900 --> 00:13:42,000
and is that growing? 
And how are we getting out of a 

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00:13:42,008 --> 00:13:44,700
lab space? 
And not just depending on what 

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00:13:44,700 --> 00:13:48,400
we can do in a lab in Seattle. 
So I think a lot of my head 

275
00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,400
space is usually in there and 
piecing it all together. 

276
00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,300
Why are we working on this right
now? 

277
00:13:53,300 --> 00:13:54,300
Why are we working on this 
thing? 

278
00:13:54,300 --> 00:13:56,800
That's three years from now and 
understanding human movement. 

279
00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,200
How does it fit into any 
products that were building and 

280
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,900
what's the market doing as well?
So I'll be in more of those 

281
00:14:02,900 --> 00:14:05,400
types of heavy. 
I'm like heavier meetings 

282
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:10,600
day-to-day and the topic range 
is pretty wide just from The 

283
00:14:10,900 --> 00:14:13,700
breadth of research that we're 
covering as well, having a 

284
00:14:13,700 --> 00:14:16,100
didn't see a lot more in it day 
to day, with product teams, I'd 

285
00:14:16,100 --> 00:14:18,900
say. 
Yeah, it's it's it probably a 

286
00:14:18,900 --> 00:14:21,800
layer below that. 
So like right now I'm not in 

287
00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,500
data collections anymore but you
know, kind of overseeing again 

288
00:14:24,500 --> 00:14:27,200
that in line side of the data 
collections but more. 

289
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,800
So what do we do with our data? 
So no getting a lot of kind of 

290
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,500
the direction from Jen and where
the business really wants to go,

291
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,600
then trying to map out, you 
know, what questions? 

292
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,200
Do we want to ask? 
And kind of a lot of thinking of

293
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,000
like, all right, how are We 
applying some of these questions

294
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,300
or what new methods, can we use 
to ask about cushion shoes? 

295
00:14:45,300 --> 00:14:47,800
And how does our ghost differ 
from our glycerin, from our 

296
00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:49,900
trace? 
And then how are those uniquely 

297
00:14:49,900 --> 00:14:52,900
different from our speech? 
Use from our Max, to our Tempo, 

298
00:14:52,900 --> 00:14:55,700
to our launch and know what 
unique benefits? 

299
00:14:55,700 --> 00:14:58,800
Can we give to the runner with 
all these different products 

300
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,100
with kind of that key thing 
being, like, each shoe should 

301
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:05,800
serve a purpose and part of that
should be biomechanics and what 

302
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,100
unique think and in can really 
come through. 

303
00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:12,800
So I say a lot more down. 
In in the nitty-gritty of the 

304
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,900
science questions for sure. 
But the the big thing I would 

305
00:15:15,900 --> 00:15:17,600
say about like the team's 
themselves, like the 

306
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:22,700
researchers, it kind of wants a 
ride, the roller coaster of the 

307
00:15:22,700 --> 00:15:25,800
the go to park it cycle of where
we're product is in the 

308
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:27,900
calendar. 
So, you know, when a project 

309
00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:31,100
comes in, we collect a lot of 
data very quickly. 

310
00:15:31,100 --> 00:15:34,400
We always like to joke, we do a 
master's thesis in about three 

311
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,400
and a half or four weeks because
a shoe comes in and you have 

312
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:42,800
about two To get 10 to 15 people
through the lab process, all the

313
00:15:42,808 --> 00:15:46,100
data analyze. 
It Loop up with your perception 

314
00:15:46,100 --> 00:15:49,800
researcher figure out this like 
POV on the shoes of Performing. 

315
00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,300
Well is it performing not what's
your clear message and share 

316
00:15:52,300 --> 00:15:56,900
that to the team and that's 
three and a half weeks and so 

317
00:15:56,900 --> 00:16:01,900
that happens five to six times a
year probably. 

318
00:16:01,900 --> 00:16:04,700
And so it's very intensive. 
The amount of data we collect 

319
00:16:05,100 --> 00:16:08,400
but then that also gives us a 
lot of data in house. 

320
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,500
We're sitting on right now. 
And so we go back through and 

321
00:16:12,500 --> 00:16:14,900
analyze old data with new 
methods, a fair amount, raised 

322
00:16:14,900 --> 00:16:18,200
new questions or yeah, I know 
just kind of really utilizing 

323
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,300
what we have and so that's a big
part of the other chunk of time 

324
00:16:21,300 --> 00:16:23,800
and then the collaboration side 
is the other big thing. 

325
00:16:24,300 --> 00:16:26,900
Know if we're in a design phase,
we're meeting with teams pretty 

326
00:16:26,900 --> 00:16:29,400
frequently or we're coming out 
of a testing ground for the 

327
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,400
month after and we're meeting 
with teams pretty frequently so 

328
00:16:32,700 --> 00:16:36,400
I'd say the collaboration 
testing or reanalyzing is the 

329
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:37,700
main three pillars you could 
say. 

330
00:16:38,100 --> 00:16:40,400
Yeah. 
So site you know, You're out, 

331
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,000
you're planning going. 
Hey, what's this? 

332
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:43,600
Look like? 
And for anybody that knows 

333
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,500
someone in the Footwear 
industry, that's in this. 

334
00:16:46,500 --> 00:16:49,800
If you ask them, hey this new 
shoe just came out to them. 

335
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,300
That's an old shoe that like 
weight. 

336
00:16:51,300 --> 00:16:52,600
Hasn't that been out? 
Like no. 

337
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,400
That's your guys are working on 
three years from now. 

338
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,200
It that's how long this process 
takes. 

339
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,900
So again these foot be not you 
know, I tried to be nice and 

340
00:17:01,900 --> 00:17:04,000
everyone was like, hey, you 
should be more critical in your 

341
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,099
reviews and so I was like, all 
right, you didn't you did a good

342
00:17:07,099 --> 00:17:11,000
job kind of our products? 
There's stuff. 

343
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,599
I hey, you know I felt kind of 
like Evan. 

344
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:18,900
I was like typing it out like 
Evan said, be someone's this is 

345
00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:21,400
someone's baby that I am just 
ripping to shreds. 

346
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,200
Fine. 
That's okay. 

347
00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:26,300
It's another difference. 
You I really like and I know 

348
00:17:26,300 --> 00:17:29,300
you've worked on so the newest 
version of that that's looks 

349
00:17:29,300 --> 00:17:32,500
like really cool and I'm sure 
you're working on version 5 now.

350
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,600
But yeah this is just funny that
how much planning goes into that

351
00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:38,800
and that but what I think, one 
of the things that I didn't 

352
00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,100
understand as well, is that Even
though you're planning three 

353
00:17:41,100 --> 00:17:43,500
years in the future, you still 
got things that come through 

354
00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:46,300
data, they like, oh gosh, we 
have to do this now because even

355
00:17:46,300 --> 00:17:50,300
we only have a limited time to 
understand how this works, how 

356
00:17:50,300 --> 00:17:53,000
this is being perceived to get 
this into what we're already. 

357
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:57,300
That's already underway so I'm 
guessing you're never bored 

358
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,800
then. 
Don't yeah, that definitely 

359
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,600
switch it back to switch in your
brain back on and on time spaces

360
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,700
because you by the time we 
finished it in House at least 

361
00:18:05,700 --> 00:18:07,700
another year before it goes to 
Market and when it goes to 

362
00:18:07,700 --> 00:18:09,800
Market questions come from 
accounts and you're like having 

363
00:18:09,900 --> 00:18:12,600
to flash a brain back to a year 
ago, like what was that one 

364
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,700
doing then? 
And comes very important. 

365
00:18:14,700 --> 00:18:17,300
How well you off all of your 
findings? 

366
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,800
I mean, I have forgot to mention
obviously in our day-to-day, the

367
00:18:20,300 --> 00:18:22,100
Evan, and I are both people 
managers, you know, we have a 

368
00:18:22,100 --> 00:18:25,800
pretty big team at Brooks. 
There's 25 of us on run research

369
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,000
and and for us there's a lot of 
brain space that goes into 

370
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,200
growing people's careers and 
wanting to know how they want to

371
00:18:32,208 --> 00:18:34,900
develop within the Brand's. 
We have three Specialties on the

372
00:18:34,900 --> 00:18:37,400
team so how does it look like 
for them growing within that 

373
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,800
specialty and how did their 
skills and interests? 

374
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,200
With the brand needs. 
So there's definitely like a 

375
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,300
good portion of our days and the
headspace of people in addition 

376
00:18:45,300 --> 00:18:48,000
to what we do within the product
space and planning and research 

377
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,800
on got it, that's really cool. 
So you both touched on this but 

378
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,700
I think I want to dive into this
and I'm going to be I'm going to

379
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,600
make fun of Jen just a little 
bit because before we came on, 

380
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,900
we're talking about like the 
process of going through PhD 

381
00:19:01,900 --> 00:19:04,400
because I'm in my methods 
section right now and banging my

382
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,800
head against the wall. 
And one of our other faculty at 

383
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,700
Azusa Pacific, who's in a 
Ecology program, she was meant. 

384
00:19:11,700 --> 00:19:13,500
She's a she's working on her PhD
as well. 

385
00:19:13,500 --> 00:19:15,600
And I got to meet her. 
And I was like, hey, have you 

386
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,600
had any trouble with the camera 
system? 

387
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,200
And she was like, yeah, I had an
emotional breakdown over the 

388
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:21,500
winter. 
I think it's just normal. 

389
00:19:21,500 --> 00:19:25,100
So just I'm in that space right 
now, so I'm not meaning to bring

390
00:19:25,100 --> 00:19:27,200
up bad memories. 
But Jen, was talking about how 

391
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:31,000
during her master's somebody was
asking, like, how specifically 

392
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:33,300
do you define a runner? 
And there was a hole, there was 

393
00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:36,500
a story where you define that 
operationally and somebody was 

394
00:19:36,500 --> 00:19:38,800
not very nicely committee and 
they're like, well, you're 

395
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,000
whatever. 
So I'm curious though to toss 

396
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,400
that question back. 
How do you define a runner and 

397
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:46,700
how does Brooks to find a 
runner? 

398
00:19:46,700 --> 00:19:49,400
Because I think this is really 
important to talk about because 

399
00:19:49,500 --> 00:19:54,000
I think there are stereotypes 
that people either put on the 

400
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,700
image of a runner and this can 
either be a positive thing about

401
00:19:56,700 --> 00:19:59,300
getting people active. 
I think it also can be taken 

402
00:19:59,700 --> 00:20:01,900
negatively and scare people 
away. 

403
00:20:01,900 --> 00:20:04,200
So I'm curious. 
How do you define running and 

404
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,200
what is our runner? 
A runner, what does that mean 

405
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,000
for Brooks, and what does that 
mean in terms of run signature? 

406
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,100
Yeah. 
Definitely, I'm super passionate

407
00:20:11,100 --> 00:20:13,200
on this one because I was 
definitely one of these people 

408
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,300
who felt like an outsider or 
like just didn't quite long and 

409
00:20:17,300 --> 00:20:19,500
in the running. 
He's so for myself, I only 

410
00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:21,900
started running when I was doing
my PhD because I was looking at 

411
00:20:21,900 --> 00:20:24,200
running injuries. 
And I was like, well, if I have 

412
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,400
to run, look at running 
injuries, like that would be 

413
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,100
totally as an imposter started 
running during my PhD. 

414
00:20:31,100 --> 00:20:33,500
I was always like generally 
active but I just hadn't, really

415
00:20:33,500 --> 00:20:37,500
done outright running. 
And cabman, I was like, gosh, 

416
00:20:37,500 --> 00:20:39,700
this is hard. 
This is a lot harder than I 

417
00:20:39,700 --> 00:20:41,200
thought. 
I was going to be looks so 

418
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:46,500
straightforward and so I was my 
exposure to it, but I ran on a 

419
00:20:46,508 --> 00:20:50,400
treadmill I ran three miles 
every single time I did in a 

420
00:20:50,408 --> 00:20:52,600
half hour, I never had an 
interest change my Pace. 

421
00:20:52,700 --> 00:20:56,000
It was just like this was the 
way it showed up for me and I 

422
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:56,900
enjoyed it. 
Doing it that way. 

423
00:20:56,900 --> 00:20:59,900
It was like a mental release. 
I liked being at the gym and 

424
00:20:59,900 --> 00:21:01,800
that space. 
I like put some music on. 

425
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,400
I just, it was during my PhD. 
I can zone out all that stuff 

426
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,800
that gives you emotional Trauma 
from the PHP and I was 

427
00:21:08,808 --> 00:21:10,100
completely zoned out. 
Out. 

428
00:21:10,100 --> 00:21:13,100
And I liked it that I just knew 
where I could go and that was 

429
00:21:13,100 --> 00:21:15,400
the space and I'm not, I tell 
people, I ran on a treadmill, 

430
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:16,800
they're like, well, it's not 
running nose. 

431
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,100
Like I'm pretty sure it is, 
there's a flight face. 

432
00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:24,800
So if you really want to get it 
mechanics, it's it's definitely 

433
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,900
running by a biomechanical 
standard of what run is compared

434
00:21:27,900 --> 00:21:31,400
to a walk but yeah, I was, I was
on a treadmill. 

435
00:21:31,700 --> 00:21:33,100
I do that. 
Can't be at you gotta, you gotta

436
00:21:33,100 --> 00:21:35,000
run outside. 
It was too short, slow with 

437
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:36,800
distance. 
I was like a nine and a half 

438
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,100
minute mile. 
ER, that kept at that pace. 

439
00:21:39,100 --> 00:21:42,500
I was fine with that. 
That was happy for me and there 

440
00:21:42,508 --> 00:21:44,900
was always just something that 
someone would pick out why that 

441
00:21:44,900 --> 00:21:48,000
was been disqualified. 
Me, I was a jogger, people some 

442
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,300
call me a jogger or they 
wouldn't qualify me as because 

443
00:21:50,300 --> 00:21:52,200
just anything on a treadmill, 
did it make sense to them? 

444
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,700
They like didn't get it before 
it would be and just working and

445
00:21:55,700 --> 00:21:58,000
even another industry space I 
wasn't, you know, allowed to 

446
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,000
test product. 
I didn't run enough miles even 

447
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,500
though I was like working in the
space of testing products so 

448
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,900
that was always felt, we weren't
going to Brooks. 

449
00:22:05,900 --> 00:22:08,600
I never felt that way. 
I walked in the door and every 

450
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,300
way run showed up for you. 
It doesn't matter if you do it 

451
00:22:11,300 --> 00:22:14,600
at Orangetheory and you do it 
for two minutes at a time on a 

452
00:22:14,608 --> 00:22:17,300
treadmill in the middle of a 
class, or you go outside and you

453
00:22:17,300 --> 00:22:20,700
do it for an ultramarathon 
rerunning the mountains in 

454
00:22:20,700 --> 00:22:22,600
Mobile or something. 
I had it doesn't matter how it 

455
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,200
shows up it's that you're doing 
it as a part of your day and in 

456
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,600
any way that it comes in. 
So they that's really open and 

457
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,300
Broad but I've to me that is 
really the Brooks definition of.

458
00:22:32,300 --> 00:22:34,900
Like, it's your run, that is 
what our whole campaign is. 

459
00:22:34,900 --> 00:22:37,300
Now it's really message that out
to people and it's truly 

460
00:22:37,300 --> 00:22:40,800
believed within the walls like 
not just A message that goes up 

461
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,500
on a billboard, I feel it every 
day, live working there and it's

462
00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:47,200
who we study, we study how it 
shows up for all these different

463
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:48,800
Runners. 
So, I can go much farther into 

464
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,300
like, how we recruit and who we 
test product on and how we 

465
00:22:51,300 --> 00:22:54,200
optimize for each runner in 
these spaces as well. 

466
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,500
But let Evan jump in so I don't 
just ramble through my own like 

467
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,000
being inclusive. 
No, I think, you know, I think 

468
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,600
very similar before jumping. 
Yeah, I like the Run signature 

469
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,100
and everything that's or, but 
it's something that is really 

470
00:23:08,100 --> 00:23:10,600
special about Brooks. 
His approach is really 

471
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,300
embodying. 
All who run into the point of 

472
00:23:13,300 --> 00:23:16,300
like run. 
It is just move or I'd even go 

473
00:23:16,300 --> 00:23:19,300
further like interest in the 
sport, right? 

474
00:23:19,300 --> 00:23:22,400
Like I think of my dad like used
to run all the time, back in the

475
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,800
day and 19 like he doesn't run 
anymore, but he's still 

476
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,200
announcing track meets and still
no watch and all this stuff and 

477
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,200
like hanging out with a product 
and all that stuff. 

478
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,300
And so like it's it's anything 
related to it. 

479
00:23:35,500 --> 00:23:37,200
That I think is the beauty of it
for sure. 

480
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,800
And yeah, it's I mean yeah, no 
matter. 

481
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,700
If you're running faster running
slower, just have an interest in

482
00:23:44,700 --> 00:23:46,100
writing. 
I think it has a positive effect

483
00:23:46,100 --> 00:23:48,300
on people, which is phenomenal 
to the point. 

484
00:23:48,300 --> 00:23:51,200
That's really what we, we try to
touch on for sure. 

485
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:52,200
And really try to reach 
everyone. 

486
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:56,000
It's pretty special the muscles 
to be challenging to because I 

487
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,000
think more and you two are going
to probably be even better at 

488
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:00,600
this than I am in the research 
world. 

489
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,600
But well, what what what 
evidence is available that I get

490
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,500
to see and I know you two have 
seen far more data than I have. 

491
00:24:07,700 --> 00:24:12,600
Is that your everybody is a 
Runner but how you're moving is 

492
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,900
going to create very different 
forces, very different 

493
00:24:14,900 --> 00:24:18,900
mechanics, and trying to build 
shoes that try to match. 

494
00:24:19,100 --> 00:24:22,900
All of that is must be 
incredibly challenging. 

495
00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:24,900
It's like, you know, it's one of
the things that I was thinking 

496
00:24:24,900 --> 00:24:28,200
about the other day is that is 
it really possible to build a 

497
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,600
shoe for everyone. 
I was going to jump in and say 

498
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,200
that's where the ghost is so 
amazing. 

499
00:24:32,700 --> 00:24:36,300
And you have, seriously, you 
have people that are banging out

500
00:24:36,300 --> 00:24:39,800
80 plus Mi weeks in The Ghost. 
And then you have people that to

501
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,200
the point are Walking in the 
ghost. 

502
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,200
So they're jogging a couple 
miles and they all love the 

503
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,000
ghost across the Spectrum. 
In its It's kind of fun to think

504
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,100
through that lens. 
Yeah, exactly. 

505
00:24:49,100 --> 00:24:52,800
Your question of. 
It's very difficult, but we're 

506
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,000
still sort of working understand
it for sure, but it's pretty 

507
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,300
special. 
And you have a shoe that like, 

508
00:24:56,300 --> 00:25:00,500
yeah, it's doing it. 
And I think that's important 

509
00:25:00,500 --> 00:25:03,000
part of like when you consider 
for at least Brooks the product 

510
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,200
line, that's why there are a lot
of solutions. 

511
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,200
There's a lot of options out 
there because then the puzzle 

512
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,200
piece for us to help guide you 
to the shoot, that would be most

513
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,700
optimal for you whatever. 
Way, the Run shows are for you 

514
00:25:13,700 --> 00:25:16,300
at this stage of your life and 
that won't change down the line.

515
00:25:16,300 --> 00:25:19,000
It will be a different shoe that
might fit best for you. 

516
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,900
So the the puzzle piece for us 
is getting that, you know, 

517
00:25:21,900 --> 00:25:25,000
optimization translation out but
we build it. 

518
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,500
We know why we have all these 
different solutions and kind of 

519
00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:33,000
the Reaction and Mark is to 
simplify, you want to make it as

520
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,100
simple as possible. 
One solution, One Stop shops. 

521
00:25:36,100 --> 00:25:38,600
Then you don't have to figure 
out what each one goes to, but 

522
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,300
you're really not then solving 
for everyone, you'll be solving 

523
00:25:41,300 --> 00:25:44,600
for the normative middle, but 
you're probably not getting 

524
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,200
anything on the bell end. 
So that's where it just gets a 

525
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:49,700
little trickier in the 
translation. 

526
00:25:50,700 --> 00:25:52,500
Yeah. 
So now I'm stuck because I 

527
00:25:52,508 --> 00:25:55,500
really want to dive in Tweed. 
Evan and Jen weed before this, 

528
00:25:55,500 --> 00:25:57,800
we talked about the two areas 
want to go as how do we 

529
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,300
categorize Runners? 
But I want to wait. 

530
00:25:59,500 --> 00:26:03,300
First and talk about what run 
signature is to think it's 

531
00:26:03,300 --> 00:26:05,800
something that's unique to 
Brooks at least because they 

532
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,300
talk about it from what I 
understand. 

533
00:26:07,300 --> 00:26:11,100
There are, I think this is being
done with other companies in 

534
00:26:11,100 --> 00:26:14,300
various ways, but just not as 
overtly, and probably not add, 

535
00:26:14,300 --> 00:26:16,300
and I can't speak for them 
because I don't know exactly 

536
00:26:16,300 --> 00:26:17,700
what they're doing. 
I just know a lot more about 

537
00:26:17,700 --> 00:26:19,800
what Brooks is doing. 
Can so, can you tell us what 

538
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:25,300
runs signature is and why that 
was important to bring four 

539
00:26:25,300 --> 00:26:28,300
words rather than kind of 
keeping behind the doors that a 

540
00:26:28,300 --> 00:26:30,400
lot of companies? 
Will do because there's a lot. 

541
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,200
I don't know if they're sure 
what to do with it. 

542
00:26:32,500 --> 00:26:35,600
Or if again, it seems like part 
of it was going, how do we help 

543
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,400
simplify this and make things 
more straightforward for people?

544
00:26:39,500 --> 00:26:43,500
So before I keep rambling, what 
is run signature mean to each? 

545
00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:46,500
One of you? 
So run signature, I like it's 

546
00:26:46,500 --> 00:26:49,200
the biggest sense. 
Is really an approach that 

547
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:50,000
encompasses? 
All? 

548
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,100
That is our guiding star we're 
doing at Brooks, but it is our 

549
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,500
promise to understanding the 
runner and all who run and 

550
00:26:57,500 --> 00:27:00,000
optimizing product for you 
within That space. 

551
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,400
So it really is about again 
knowing the all and optimizing 

552
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,200
different solutions in the 
method approach that comes out 

553
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,600
how we actually quantify human 
Movement. 

554
00:27:09,900 --> 00:27:13,300
We lean into our belief that 
everyone has just a certain way 

555
00:27:13,300 --> 00:27:16,900
that they move habitually or we 
would refer as a habitual motion

556
00:27:16,900 --> 00:27:19,000
path. 
That is based on a lot of things

557
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,800
based on your bone structure. 
We might have the same checklist

558
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,100
of bones at least, at the start 
of Our Lives that that we have 

559
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,600
in our anatomy, but they're all 
shaped a little bit differently 

560
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,500
and they than just inherently. 
Move a little bit differently 

561
00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:33,300
against each other. 
Different ligaments might have 

562
00:27:33,300 --> 00:27:35,300
lost some ligaments and some 
injuries as well. 

563
00:27:35,300 --> 00:27:38,400
Ligament laxity, that changes 
for some, on a monthly basis, 

564
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,400
all these things that will 
adjust how the bones and 

565
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,300
ligaments and muscles move 
against each other. 

566
00:27:43,700 --> 00:27:45,800
So we want to capture is kind of
why you're doing all day long. 

567
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:47,100
What you're doing? 
You're not running. 

568
00:27:47,100 --> 00:27:50,100
How much does your knee rotate? 
How much is your ankle rolling 

569
00:27:50,100 --> 00:27:52,900
in? 
What is that doing for the 23 

570
00:27:52,900 --> 00:27:55,100
hours of a day? 
When you're not sleeping as 

571
00:27:55,100 --> 00:27:57,000
well? 
And just laying flat but how do 

572
00:27:57,008 --> 00:27:58,900
we capture that and then what 
does it look like when you're 

573
00:27:58,900 --> 00:28:03,100
actually on the So we know from 
about 1,000 human movement 

574
00:28:03,100 --> 00:28:05,900
collections in the last six, 
seven years that there are 

575
00:28:05,900 --> 00:28:08,400
people that look very similar. 
Their knee rotates about the 

576
00:28:08,408 --> 00:28:11,700
same amount on the run as it 
does for these habitual motions 

577
00:28:11,700 --> 00:28:14,500
that they do all day long when 
they're not running and then you

578
00:28:14,500 --> 00:28:16,900
have a group of Runners where 
you'll see the knee actually 

579
00:28:16,900 --> 00:28:18,700
moves quite differently. 
Usually more. 

580
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,400
So on the Run than it does with,
you're doing all day and we've 

581
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,200
seen from a lot of our research 
that when you're closer to that 

582
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,000
habitual motion, when you stay 
close to, what your body is used

583
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,400
to doing all day. 
You have less force on the 

584
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,900
joints, you have better running 
economy. 

585
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,200
There's just a lot of things 
that come out that we've seen as

586
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:36,800
benefits to staying close to 
that. 

587
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,800
So our goal is that if you're 
not living there already or 

588
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:42,800
you're not there, you might 
there at the start of the run, 

589
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,500
but maybe not at the end of the 
run that we have product, that 

590
00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:49,000
helps guide your body movement, 
back to its habitual motion. 

591
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,500
And again we have a variety of 
solutions because there's not 

592
00:28:51,500 --> 00:28:54,500
just one habitual motion path. 
That is definitely a variety of 

593
00:28:54,500 --> 00:28:57,900
paths that we want to build for,
but we still have to shorten it 

594
00:28:57,900 --> 00:29:01,700
to some function. 
Rip's we don't the bespoke shoes

595
00:29:01,700 --> 00:29:04,600
stage where we're making unique 
individual shoes for everyone's 

596
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:06,600
motion. 
It's so it sounds like again 

597
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,000
this is very much, you know, 
from a tie Jen, I'm sorry, I 

598
00:29:10,008 --> 00:29:11,500
didn't know this and I was like,
wait a minute. 

599
00:29:11,500 --> 00:29:15,000
I was looking through your, your
research and I was like, wait a 

600
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:16,900
minute. 
The article that I site with a 

601
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:21,000
been oneg, I didn't realize you 
were a co-author on that so I 

602
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,200
like, oh yeah, no wonder. 
So yeah. 

603
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:24,800
We cite cite. 
You all the time. 

604
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,200
This is hopefully this question 
comes off the right way. 

605
00:29:29,300 --> 00:29:33,500
That this is, this is directly 
inspired by your research and 

606
00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:36,700
the research done on the 
preferred motion pathway as well

607
00:29:36,700 --> 00:29:38,900
as comfort filter. 
I'm guessing just based on, 

608
00:29:38,900 --> 00:29:43,300
understanding on that you have 
a, what was the term you use 

609
00:29:43,300 --> 00:29:46,000
that? 
There's a perception tester 

610
00:29:46,300 --> 00:29:49,200
perception, researchers are? 
Yeah, perception researcher. 

611
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:50,100
I'm sorry. 
Yes. 

612
00:29:50,300 --> 00:29:52,700
So you take both those into 
account but it sounds like run. 

613
00:29:52,700 --> 00:29:55,300
Signature isn't just, what are 
you doing on the run? 

614
00:29:55,300 --> 00:29:56,300
And this is something that's 
funny. 

615
00:29:56,300 --> 00:29:59,200
Because as a clinician this is I
something I think about all the 

616
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,700
Time when athletes go or 
anybody, right? 

617
00:30:01,700 --> 00:30:05,000
Runner Walker like hey, you 
know, my activity, I'm having 

618
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,800
trouble with and the first 
question I ask is, well, what 

619
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:09,300
are you doing throughout the 
rest of the day? 

620
00:30:09,300 --> 00:30:11,800
Because people only usually 
think in terms of that movement 

621
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,000
and that activity. 
But what we do throughout the 

622
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,700
day really impacts that and 
whether that movement is normal 

623
00:30:18,700 --> 00:30:20,300
to us, right? 
Like you said that you liked me 

624
00:30:20,300 --> 00:30:23,600
mechanics, whether you move 
similar to how you move through 

625
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,700
the day or is it something 
dramatically new and you're 

626
00:30:25,700 --> 00:30:29,300
creating a very new stress that 
your body needs to adapt to so 

627
00:30:29,308 --> 00:30:33,100
you to your team is trying to 
capture that and go beyond just 

628
00:30:33,100 --> 00:30:35,300
the run to go. 
What is your normal? 

629
00:30:35,300 --> 00:30:37,200
What does that mean? 
And I think that's really 

630
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,300
important for our listeners and 
viewers to understand is normal,

631
00:30:41,300 --> 00:30:43,300
means something very different 
for each person. 

632
00:30:43,300 --> 00:30:47,000
That's why, you know, we 
especially doctors running, 

633
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:48,900
we're reviewing shoes. 
It's try to be really careful 

634
00:30:48,900 --> 00:30:52,900
because each of us, we have 
different mechanics and we try 

635
00:30:52,900 --> 00:30:55,900
to encourage our listeners 
viewers and readers to figure 

636
00:30:55,900 --> 00:30:59,100
out who matches with who best. 
But also realize take with a 

637
00:30:59,100 --> 00:31:02,200
grain of salt Because our the 
job really is to learn how you 

638
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,900
move and not necessarily how 
somebody else move which is a 

639
00:31:04,900 --> 00:31:07,300
challenge when you're trying to 
research that, right? 

640
00:31:07,300 --> 00:31:08,800
Because that's that's the 
variability. 

641
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,100
In terms of, how do we Define 
operationally defined? 

642
00:31:11,100 --> 00:31:14,800
This, what is normal when it's 
Unique to each person which is 

643
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,300
giving me palpitations in my 
freaking out because I am 

644
00:31:18,300 --> 00:31:19,800
looking for consistency, my 
methods right now. 

645
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,500
I'm like, I don't think this 
exist but my advisors are asking

646
00:31:22,500 --> 00:31:27,700
me to find this. 
So I'm just going to go that's 

647
00:31:27,700 --> 00:31:30,800
all spot-on and that's like the 
for us with the research space 

648
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,700
is getting out of the lab. 
I mean we can capture from you 

649
00:31:33,700 --> 00:31:38,100
in the lab is so limited from we
can Catholic do capture still 

650
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,500
your some of your habitual 
movements to help get an idea 

651
00:31:40,500 --> 00:31:42,300
for that. 
But that's the real space. 

652
00:31:42,300 --> 00:31:44,500
You get in it for us is the 
wearable tech that we can then 

653
00:31:44,500 --> 00:31:47,900
get more of an idea of what you 
look like throughout a variety 

654
00:31:47,900 --> 00:31:49,400
of your runs. 
So even from watch data. 

655
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,500
Now, as we partner with Dashiell
X, you see the big range of runs

656
00:31:53,500 --> 00:31:55,900
that people go through, not me. 
I did the same exact run every 

657
00:31:55,900 --> 00:31:57,600
single day on my treadmill. 
That was lovely. 

658
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,100
I would have been a very boring 
Dot. 

659
00:31:59,300 --> 00:32:03,400
Like most people have a still 
quite a breadth of the miles, 

660
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,200
they cover the speeds, they 
cover where they're doing it and

661
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,300
then that off the Run Part in 
terms of, you know, I sit now 

662
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,900
for my job in meetings, most the
time and I commute now I moved 

663
00:32:14,900 --> 00:32:17,100
farther north and I'm driving 
it. 

664
00:32:17,100 --> 00:32:19,700
So I spent a lot of days sitting
where I used to have a lot more 

665
00:32:19,700 --> 00:32:22,600
movement involved throughout my 
day and that will obviously 

666
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,800
change what my body's used to 
and is going to have an impact 

667
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:27,600
on how I'm running as well. 
Inevitably. 

668
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,400
So that's just a really Exciting
part of getting out there and 

669
00:32:30,408 --> 00:32:35,300
understanding, all all who run 
in there on and off experience. 

670
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,200
Yeah, and I think Matt, you, you
touch my really well if um, come

671
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,500
from like the preferred move and
pass because the preferred 

672
00:32:41,500 --> 00:32:44,700
movement path know really is 
your body's going to take the 

673
00:32:44,700 --> 00:32:47,700
path of least resistance. 
And so your preferred moving 

674
00:32:47,700 --> 00:32:51,900
path, and very much be dependent
on the shoe you have on based on

675
00:32:51,900 --> 00:32:55,300
the path of least resistance to 
that shoe, basically, whereas 

676
00:32:55,300 --> 00:32:58,200
the habitual movement movement 
patch, your point is like you 

677
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,200
have one. 
One way your body kind of wants 

678
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,600
to move, you have natural way 
your body wants to move. 

679
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,700
And that's what we're really 
trying to one. 

680
00:33:06,700 --> 00:33:10,000
Just quantify to start but then 
Benchmark against with how 

681
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,900
you're on the run. 
And so that's kind of one of the

682
00:33:12,900 --> 00:33:15,400
really unique things we have 
with everyone that comes into 

683
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,800
the lab when they test is they 
have a set of Habitual movements

684
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,100
that we have them do just to 
figure out. 

685
00:33:21,100 --> 00:33:24,700
How does your your lower body 
basically move in all these 

686
00:33:24,700 --> 00:33:27,500
things that we think are natural
such as like, doing a squat 

687
00:33:27,500 --> 00:33:31,800
walking downstairs, going for a 
A walk and figuring out how you 

688
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:35,400
are you to everything. 
And then, obviously, you go, you

689
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,600
run in our shoes and we, we do a
fun little comparison and that's

690
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,900
how we, that's our Benchmark, 
our product, and it's, it's it 

691
00:33:42,900 --> 00:33:46,600
is really specialized because 
it's one where it's a new type 

692
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,200
of thinking over what it was for
the longest time righted. 

693
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,600
Let's just limit impact Force 
luscious limit e-version and you

694
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,000
know, we know over the years 
that they can be important, but 

695
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,200
it's not an end-all. 
And so it's kind of that 

696
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,400
Training thinking of how can we 
really, really try to understand

697
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,100
do something different. 
But I really, really didn't good

698
00:34:04,100 --> 00:34:06,200
theory as well. 
And as Jane mentioned, we have 

699
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,300
we have good convincing evidence
that's working and we really 

700
00:34:09,300 --> 00:34:12,100
believe it and really believing 
that push board and helping 

701
00:34:12,300 --> 00:34:13,900
thinking this away to help 
protect Runners. 

702
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:15,800
And something else, you 
mentioned that you had asked 

703
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,400
about Brooks. 
I think alluded to us like 

704
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,400
publishing more or basically 
sharing more. 

705
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:26,600
It's not like locked behind hide
or Outdoors, not hidden behind 

706
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,199
locked doors. 
And I do think that's an 

707
00:34:29,300 --> 00:34:31,500
Tremely, special thing about 
Brooks when I first started at 

708
00:34:31,500 --> 00:34:33,100
Brooks they were publishing so 
much. 

709
00:34:33,100 --> 00:34:35,300
I was what kind of my first 
question to someone was like, 

710
00:34:35,300 --> 00:34:37,199
oh, I'm surprised you guys 
published feel like everywhere. 

711
00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:39,100
I'll even when I interviewed at 
some places, they wouldn't let 

712
00:34:39,100 --> 00:34:41,900
me see the lab because it was 
like, okay what like fancy 

713
00:34:41,900 --> 00:34:44,199
things could be in the lab. 
They won't even let me see the 

714
00:34:44,199 --> 00:34:48,400
equipment if I'm like applying 
to work here and Brooks is very 

715
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,199
open. 
Brooks does tours for basically 

716
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,600
almost anybody who really want 
to come and get it to her but 

717
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,900
the publishing on that end and 
the response I even got when I 

718
00:34:56,900 --> 00:34:59,200
first started out of the 
Curiosity of like the Sheree 

719
00:34:59,300 --> 00:35:01,100
Yes, of it was. 
It's a win-win. 

720
00:35:01,100 --> 00:35:05,600
If someone did take what we were
doing and add to it, then 

721
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,600
ultimately, we believe in it. 
So strongly that this would be a

722
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,300
win for us and it would be when 
for the runners because we 

723
00:35:12,300 --> 00:35:14,800
passionately believe that this 
is going to help runners in the 

724
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,000
end. 
So if someone takes it and adds 

725
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,300
to it and does it even better 
does more fantastic. 

726
00:35:19,300 --> 00:35:21,900
If someone does it and opens it 
up more? 

727
00:35:21,900 --> 00:35:24,500
Like, it's even more attention. 
We know that we're really going 

728
00:35:24,500 --> 00:35:26,600
to continue to be leaders here 
because we believe in it so 

729
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,500
strongly and we're putting the 
resources towards it. 

730
00:35:28,500 --> 00:35:30,700
It's not just You know, 
marketing gimmick on anything, 

731
00:35:30,700 --> 00:35:33,400
so brought attention to it which
we can bring attention to us. 

732
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,200
So everything about it felt like
just a win and you want to 

733
00:35:36,700 --> 00:35:39,000
collaborate and work with others
and if they take it and run with

734
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,600
it, that would be fantastic. 
So I'm always really impressed 

735
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,500
by that behavior and attitude at
Brooks as well and we're trying 

736
00:35:44,500 --> 00:35:45,900
to get some Publications coming 
out. 

737
00:35:45,900 --> 00:35:48,200
Evan and I are putting back on 
our publication ants which we 

738
00:35:48,208 --> 00:35:51,300
hadn't done in a little while 
out of academics little trauma 

739
00:35:51,300 --> 00:35:53,900
comes back. 
We're like any script this last 

740
00:35:53,900 --> 00:35:59,700
week match the headspace of 
going out of Eating's to 

741
00:35:59,700 --> 00:36:02,600
manuscript writing and back in a
project means that every major 

742
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,600
brand like, oh boy, it's 
different. 

743
00:36:05,700 --> 00:36:07,800
Yeah, I'm in, I'm in the 
revision. 

744
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,100
The second revisions of a 
systematic review right now and 

745
00:36:10,100 --> 00:36:12,800
we're looking at both. 
You like, I don't know who did 

746
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,500
this going. 
I know I want to keep doing this

747
00:36:16,500 --> 00:36:17,700
somewhere in the back of my 
brain. 

748
00:36:17,900 --> 00:36:19,600
And this is her. 
I'd like I wish people 

749
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,400
understood how difficult 
researches and how much time I 

750
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,900
had no idea as a clinician. 
Like I had a teeny bit but I'll 

751
00:36:25,900 --> 00:36:29,100
quote is to you doing like your 
work and then go home. 

752
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:30,900
How to publish on top of this? 
It's a lot. 

753
00:36:30,900 --> 00:36:33,300
So please, everybody listening, 
give give him some credit. 

754
00:36:33,300 --> 00:36:35,400
This is hard. 
So I want it. 

755
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,700
I'm want to ask a tough question
here. 

756
00:36:37,700 --> 00:36:41,300
So when we talk about preferred 
and habitual motion Pathways, 

757
00:36:41,300 --> 00:36:44,400
one of the things that starts to
get muddy in the clinical world 

758
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,900
and in the research world is 
figuring out what might be 

759
00:36:47,900 --> 00:36:50,700
defining, what might be a good 
movement going? 

760
00:36:50,700 --> 00:36:53,200
Hey, this is natural normal, and
this is fine. 

761
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,100
And then also a problematic one,
because one of the comments that

762
00:36:56,100 --> 00:36:58,700
one of the issues that we run 
into is when we say, quote 

763
00:36:58,700 --> 00:37:00,900
unquote, Troll sometimes a 
natural movement. 

764
00:37:00,900 --> 00:37:04,800
May be good. 
Sometimes it may not be good. 

765
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,900
One of the challenges figuring 
out is that responsible for 

766
00:37:07,900 --> 00:37:10,600
person's injury and we know 
injuries are multifactorial and 

767
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,900
she will try to define those in 
the risk. 

768
00:37:12,900 --> 00:37:16,600
Factors is hard enough but how? 
And I don't know if you could 

769
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:21,400
tell me, I Brooks. 
How have you worked with that 

770
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,400
going? 
How do we Define what might be 

771
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,600
good? 
What is our they're even good 

772
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:27,000
mechanics? 
Let's just start out with that. 

773
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:31,300
Like our is are all mechanics. 
X by mechanics necessarily good.

774
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,400
When we talk about natural and 
preferred movement Pathways, 

775
00:37:35,100 --> 00:37:38,800
what are we solving for? 
You're gonna get the like 

776
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:43,500
science answer back. 
That's my hypotheses. 

777
00:37:43,500 --> 00:37:47,400
Our research question. 
I think also so one clarifying 

778
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,500
like weird for me, that's 
distinct, as we say, habitual 

779
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,700
not natural. 
Yeah, pretty specifically as 

780
00:37:52,700 --> 00:37:55,400
well. 
So eventual, is habit, I mean, 

781
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,400
that's out of habit and that can
change my habits. 

782
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,600
Now, in this time frame, are 
these things, and maybe two 

783
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:01,900
years from now, it will be very 
different. 

784
00:38:01,900 --> 00:38:04,500
I had a baby two years ago, my 
habits are very different right 

785
00:38:04,500 --> 00:38:05,800
now than they were two years 
ago. 

786
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,100
So like I'm sure that my 
habitual motion changed in these

787
00:38:09,100 --> 00:38:12,900
last two years, as an example. 
So generally there's that 

788
00:38:12,900 --> 00:38:15,400
there's not again a belief that 
I don't think we believe there's

789
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,600
like Natural quote unquote way 
or normal quote, unquote way 

790
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,800
they're still just like what 
your body is used to doing all 

791
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,100
day at this moment in time. 
And how often does that change 

792
00:38:24,100 --> 00:38:25,600
is coming? 
Go into a bigger topic with that

793
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,100
too. 
But your point of like if 

794
00:38:28,100 --> 00:38:31,500
there's good or bad ones, I 
don't think again, I think that 

795
00:38:31,500 --> 00:38:34,100
what Evans getting at is like 
it's depends on the person. 

796
00:38:34,100 --> 00:38:37,700
Still for a lot of things you 
guys as doctors are more of an 

797
00:38:37,700 --> 00:38:41,200
expert than Evan and I are and 
really identifying like very 

798
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,900
probably usually very bad 
movements for. 

799
00:38:43,900 --> 00:38:45,500
It's like that probably doesn't 
benefit anyone. 

800
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,100
Very often, but like, as an 
example, I always use my 

801
00:38:49,100 --> 00:38:51,000
husband, he's going to be on 
everything known to man, but he 

802
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,500
has osteoarthritis and his big 
toe, and he can't bend through 

803
00:38:54,500 --> 00:38:56,800
his big toe and like, it just 
doesn't matter what he's done. 

804
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,400
He's shaved down shave down, the
bone, it will come back. 

805
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,000
And so for him, it's kind of 
just now it is have. 

806
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,900
It is his tone will be like that
and for him to stay active, he 

807
00:39:05,900 --> 00:39:10,700
needs a rocker forefoot to let 
the shoe just transition for 

808
00:39:10,700 --> 00:39:12,800
him. 
Because if he bends his toe was 

809
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,300
really painful and if you were 
trying to get him to flex his 

810
00:39:15,300 --> 00:39:18,800
toes, Kind of like a moot point 
that really is just you. 

811
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,100
So, you're trying to help him 
achieve what he needs to do to 

812
00:39:21,100 --> 00:39:24,500
stay active, because he still 
extremely active by compensating

813
00:39:24,500 --> 00:39:28,000
for what is going on with his 
feet at that stage? 

814
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,500
Would that be like some you want
for everyone? 

815
00:39:30,500 --> 00:39:32,000
Do you want to lock up the toes 
for? 

816
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,400
Everyone know, we're not saying 
go out and like this is the 

817
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,000
solution for everyone who comes 
into it. 

818
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,900
So that comes back to the space 
of like what are you dealing 

819
00:39:39,900 --> 00:39:40,800
with? 
What's in front of you? 

820
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:42,700
Was the best thing that's going 
to work for you right now. 

821
00:39:42,900 --> 00:39:45,400
And this is how we help guide 
you into that product space. 

822
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,900
Hey. 
It's probably like not super 

823
00:39:47,900 --> 00:39:50,000
blunt answer, if you like that, 
you know, it's great. 

824
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,600
This is how, you know, those two
have their phds done and I don't

825
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,200
as I keep using the wrong 
terminology, but this is great. 

826
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,700
So it's the key is my mistake is
I'm using the word natural and 

827
00:39:58,700 --> 00:40:02,500
its really habitual, right is 
it's what do we tend to do? 

828
00:40:02,500 --> 00:40:05,100
And then trying to operate to 
Define that as good or bad as a 

829
00:40:05,100 --> 00:40:08,600
moot point? 
Because from a clinical aspect, 

830
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:09,900
right? 
We've all all the current 

831
00:40:09,900 --> 00:40:12,800
evidence even though people are 
still trying to do this, it 

832
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,000
really. 
And I students hate when I say 

833
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,800
this is it depends right? 
Habitual movement for somebody 

834
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,100
might be something that they are
even though it might look weird.

835
00:40:22,100 --> 00:40:25,000
Might be something that they go 
on to an Olympic medal with 

836
00:40:25,300 --> 00:40:28,900
whereas somebody else that might
be a problematic movement. 

837
00:40:28,900 --> 00:40:32,600
So it's really going to depend 
on each individual person, 

838
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,200
which, where run signature comes
in going. 

839
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,800
What's the unique signature of 
that human brain being, and 

840
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,300
again, not saying, just as me 
reinforce this in my brain. 

841
00:40:40,300 --> 00:40:42,100
So I stopped saying this and 
don't ever write that again. 

842
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,700
It's not about the it's not the 
quote-unquote natural, it's the 

843
00:40:45,700 --> 00:40:47,500
habitual. 
Thing, what is this person 

844
00:40:47,500 --> 00:40:51,500
doing? 
And how do we hesitate to use 

845
00:40:51,500 --> 00:40:54,000
the word support to know a lot 
of people use the phrase support

846
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,500
in terms of stability. 
But how do we facilitate maybe 

847
00:40:56,500 --> 00:41:00,300
is the better word their 
mechanics, with what they seem 

848
00:41:00,300 --> 00:41:03,400
to be doing on a normal basis as
long as it's. 

849
00:41:03,500 --> 00:41:06,200
Yeah, exactly. 
That's that correct that. 

850
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,100
Yeah, it's cracked kind of the 
ideas. 

851
00:41:08,100 --> 00:41:09,700
That's exactly what we try to 
build. 

852
00:41:09,700 --> 00:41:14,300
Our product around, is no 
minimizing how much different 

853
00:41:14,300 --> 00:41:19,800
you are on the Run based on. 
You are moving habitually and 

854
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,400
kind of to where you think 
you're going a little bit with 

855
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,600
is, well, like if you're injured
though you got something going 

856
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,300
on like that needs dressed, but 
you know, if you're able to run 

857
00:41:29,300 --> 00:41:32,800
and stay healthy, then that is 
the goal is keeping moving. 

858
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,900
It's a bit chilly as possible. 
And how can you be in a product 

859
00:41:35,900 --> 00:41:39,800
that either no supports that or 
guides you back to running that 

860
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,200
way, not to use the support 
word, but supports that. 

861
00:41:43,300 --> 00:41:46,600
Yeah, yeah, exactly. 
But the challenge Within Juries.

862
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,300
And this is what I've been 
really working with on both my 

863
00:41:49,300 --> 00:41:51,800
students and the residents and 
fellows I've gotten to work 

864
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,000
with. 
Is that when you're injured, 

865
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,200
those mechanics are usually 
completely different than what 

866
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,600
your normal thing is. 
So a lot of times, you'll have a

867
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,000
clinician, I'm sure you get to 
experience with somebody's 

868
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,300
injured, they come in and you're
like, oh well you move like 

869
00:42:05,300 --> 00:42:08,200
that, that must clearly be the 
problems like wait is this are 

870
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,000
these are natural mechanics. 
Are these revisions are these 

871
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:15,100
the compensatory ones. 
So injury stuff is a totally 

872
00:42:15,100 --> 00:42:17,400
different ball game. 
You have to be Be very careful 

873
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,400
about. 
Is this, your normal stuff is 

874
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,300
this habitual or is this some 
other problem, right? 

875
00:42:23,300 --> 00:42:25,000
So that must. 
So I'm guessing that's why we 

876
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,900
had to be really careful when we
include injured individuals and 

877
00:42:28,900 --> 00:42:32,200
research or do you guys do 
research on anybody know? 

878
00:42:32,300 --> 00:42:36,400
There's too many not currently. 
We actively retrieved an injury 

879
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,500
free from most unless it was a 
really specific use case where 

880
00:42:40,500 --> 00:42:42,800
you're trying to understand it. 
So if they're to the point of 

881
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,400
maybe that like four foot rocker
and you did want to show that 

882
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,100
this can help. 
Load in in certain cases, then 

883
00:42:48,100 --> 00:42:50,700
we have like subspaces where we 
explore that. 

884
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:55,000
But the majority is done on like
a quote unquote, healthy 

885
00:42:55,500 --> 00:42:59,000
uninjured, actively on enter, 
mmm, that's one of the 

886
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:00,400
challenges of running into right
now. 

887
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,400
With my with my research is you 
get you're more likely to get 

888
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,100
published. 
If you have data on injured 

889
00:43:06,100 --> 00:43:10,100
individuals that said they are 
very challenging because you 

890
00:43:10,100 --> 00:43:12,700
don't know why they're doing. 
Yeah, that's normal. 

891
00:43:14,100 --> 00:43:15,600
Yeah. 
For anybody at Apu, if you see 

892
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:17,900
the small In the biomechanics 
lab. 

893
00:43:17,900 --> 00:43:23,100
All right, next to the computer 
that might be me from just but 

894
00:43:23,100 --> 00:43:27,900
I'll head pounding aside, so 
that goes into my next question,

895
00:43:27,900 --> 00:43:30,500
right? 
So we know people are different,

896
00:43:30,500 --> 00:43:33,600
they move differently. 
They have like their movement 

897
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,600
Pathways can be as unique as a 
fingerprint. 

898
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,500
So the challenge now goes like, 
hey, if we have a, we can't make

899
00:43:40,500 --> 00:43:42,200
a billion different shoes, 
right? 

900
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:43,800
Because we know that different 
people are going to respond 

901
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:45,600
differently to shoes and trying 
to match that can be 

902
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,100
challenging. 
If we don't operationally Define

903
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,200
types of Runners and we were 
talking about celebrity for some

904
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,500
curious because I can see people
trying to do this and there have

905
00:43:55,500 --> 00:43:58,400
been some kind of extremes of 
like either this or this, right?

906
00:43:58,500 --> 00:44:01,600
The most common one that people 
are most aware of that drives me

907
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,500
nuts is to heel Striker versus 
forefoot strike her right. 

908
00:44:04,500 --> 00:44:06,800
Just assuming that the only 
thing that's important running 

909
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,000
mechanics is a single joint or a
couple joints at the Foot and 

910
00:44:10,008 --> 00:44:12,000
Ankle, right. 
So be able to been trying to 

911
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,400
categorize Runners individuals 
for a long time. 

912
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:20,200
How how do you how do you 
categorize Runners and or it 

913
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:24,200
cannot even be done. 
Yeah, I'd say the starting way 

914
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:27,500
that we do it right now is the 
concept of low deviator and high

915
00:44:27,500 --> 00:44:31,200
deviator and so has you and talk
about the habitual motion path. 

916
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,700
A low deviator is someone who 
their joints move. 

917
00:44:34,700 --> 00:44:38,200
Very similarly on the run to 
that habitual movement. 

918
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,200
And then a high deviator is 
someone who moves very 

919
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:44,000
differently on the run and we 
want to guide their joint motion

920
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,200
back. 
So right now we have Low 

921
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:48,300
deviator, which then you think, 
all right? 

922
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,100
You're probably going to go into
a neutral shoe and then you have

923
00:44:51,100 --> 00:44:52,500
the high deviator. 
It's like, alright, let's put 

924
00:44:52,500 --> 00:44:54,800
you in one. 
We call our GTS or go to support

925
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,700
shoes, that have those extra 
support features to help guide 

926
00:44:57,700 --> 00:45:02,600
you back to your habitual motion
path with what shows up with 

927
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,400
that insight into our products. 
Those are the two right now. 

928
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,300
But, you know some other key 
areas you really think about it.

929
00:45:09,300 --> 00:45:11,700
Does tie in a little bit to foot
strike but if you've heard the 

930
00:45:11,700 --> 00:45:15,700
terminology aerial verse 
terrestrial Runner so you know 

931
00:45:15,700 --> 00:45:19,300
are You kind of you stay a 
little lower, you know, just 

932
00:45:19,300 --> 00:45:22,000
rides along you tend to rear 
foot strike, but it's not the 

933
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,800
only defining thing or else you 
have your no area Runner who's 

934
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:27,700
thing. 
It is your, your bouncy gazelle,

935
00:45:27,700 --> 00:45:30,500
right? 
Very different, all around 

936
00:45:30,500 --> 00:45:33,900
mechanics. 
And then yeah, you know, people 

937
00:45:33,900 --> 00:45:37,200
where it's know when you start 
thinking about no speeding up or

938
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:42,800
slowing down, do you take you do
well, stride length or Cadence? 

939
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,000
Like which one are you 
increasing to speed up or slow 

940
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,300
down? 
I'm to everything and so there's

941
00:45:47,300 --> 00:45:52,100
a lot of different types of 
groups that you can think of and

942
00:45:52,100 --> 00:45:55,200
then even back to like that 
concept is support, you know 

943
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,900
when you think of strong 
couplers versus weak couplers. 

944
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,400
So know how we think of is. 
No, you have obviously motion 

945
00:46:01,500 --> 00:46:03,300
distilled. 
You ankle joint complex. 

946
00:46:03,500 --> 00:46:07,200
That rotates, your tibia should 
do something paired with it but 

947
00:46:07,300 --> 00:46:09,400
some people it's a very strong 
coupling. 

948
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,400
Some people, it's a weak 
coupling and so what a product 

949
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,500
does it, your foot and ankle is 
going to show up differently at 

950
00:46:15,500 --> 00:46:17,200
your knee? 
Me and how that influences 

951
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,500
their. 
And so all these different ways 

952
00:46:19,500 --> 00:46:23,700
of, you know, where do you exist
in call it a bucket but we 

953
00:46:23,700 --> 00:46:26,700
really know it's a spectrum. 
That's what we're really trying 

954
00:46:26,700 --> 00:46:30,300
to do understand and I'll let 
gentle hop in with a little more

955
00:46:30,300 --> 00:46:32,200
since she Scopes wider than I 
do. 

956
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,200
Kind of comes back again to 
still at the questions. 

957
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,000
You're asking or like the 
purpose of it's like for 

958
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,400
example, when we're looking at 
watch metrics, we've had 

959
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,000
thousands of Runners that have 
been willing to share their 

960
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,800
watch metrics with us. 
And if you're looking at 

961
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,700
categorizing people, On the pace
of their runs and then the 

962
00:46:48,700 --> 00:46:51,200
distance and you're considering 
all the runs in the last, like, 

963
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,800
four months, you're still seeing
a pattern and how they're 

964
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,300
training. 
Looks then you see injuries 

965
00:46:57,300 --> 00:47:00,200
might be different because of 
just how they're literally 

966
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:01,900
running. 
So, how that run is showing up 

967
00:47:01,900 --> 00:47:05,100
for them, but then you'll also 
see different patterns in like, 

968
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:08,700
we've started to call, like the 
lovingly, the metronome errs. 

969
00:47:08,700 --> 00:47:12,100
It's like, you run the exact 
same like distance every single 

970
00:47:12,100 --> 00:47:15,300
time, but you do a big variety 
of paste and then, but you'll 

971
00:47:15,300 --> 00:47:17,600
have like, Five different 
distances that you do. 

972
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,000
And so, you see these like 
straight lines of data as you're

973
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,000
looking at, like someone's runs 
compared to like will 

974
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,600
shotgunners who just do a little
bit all over the place and that 

975
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,100
might come into the like, okay, 
it's how you're running but it 

976
00:47:28,100 --> 00:47:29,800
may be a bit of. 
Why are you running the same 

977
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:31,800
routes? 
Do you live in an area where 

978
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,000
like these are the three routes?
I always want to run. 

979
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,400
Were you like me? 
Always on the treadmill. 

980
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:37,900
So I would just have been the 
same. 

981
00:47:37,900 --> 00:47:39,400
That's just why I show up that 
way. 

982
00:47:39,700 --> 00:47:42,500
So in terms of understanding a 
runner and maybe even barriers 

983
00:47:42,500 --> 00:47:45,400
to their run or motivations to 
run, you might see it more in 

984
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,900
some of those other. 
Types of patterns, in terms of 

985
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:50,400
where they tend to be right? 
We can't see where they're 

986
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:51,500
running. 
But like, they're always running

987
00:47:51,500 --> 00:47:54,400
the exact same distance. 
They're likely doing the same 

988
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:58,400
route like the exact same one or
they have like five other routes

989
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,700
that are all three miles. 
Each would be possible, but 

990
00:48:01,700 --> 00:48:04,600
we're using those patterns to 
understand that runner in that 

991
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,000
way as well. 
Would you would you want more 

992
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:08,900
routes? 
Would you want to have more 

993
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:11,600
options in your run? 
If we gave more of that through 

994
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:15,400
our run Club to give you ideas 
of how the Run could show up 

995
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:16,800
differently? 
Or would you want it or is it 

996
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:20,000
like now, I do this for purpose.
This is like competition for 

997
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,100
myself, I break my Pace. 
That's what I'm always looking 

998
00:48:22,100 --> 00:48:23,700
at. 
So it kind of comes back into 

999
00:48:23,700 --> 00:48:26,300
wanting to understand the runner
not just like what I could 

1000
00:48:26,300 --> 00:48:28,900
capture, how they showed up and 
maybe why they're doing it the 

1001
00:48:28,900 --> 00:48:31,300
way they're doing it. 
And can we do anything that 

1002
00:48:31,300 --> 00:48:34,200
would help connect them with 
other people like them or 

1003
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:37,000
provide educational content? 
That would help them? 

1004
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:39,900
I know, for myself, if I would, 
if I was running outside, 

1005
00:48:40,500 --> 00:48:43,100
there's limitations for me, 
personally, time of day, I don't

1006
00:48:43,100 --> 00:48:46,200
want to run when it's dark out. 
Don't feel safe, I I have 

1007
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:47,600
regions. 
I don't like to run past in my 

1008
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:49,800
neighborhood there's areas that 
don't have sidewalks and Ben's 

1009
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:51,600
is really weird. 
We have a lot of areas. 

1010
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,800
We know side who designed this? 
What is going on? 

1011
00:48:55,900 --> 00:48:57,300
So I might, I would love a 
Pathfinder. 

1012
00:48:57,300 --> 00:49:01,400
That just gave me a sidewalk 
well-lit, pretty active area 

1013
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:03,400
that I would feel more safe 
running now. 

1014
00:49:03,700 --> 00:49:05,700
And if you gave me multiple 
routes, that I could do that, 

1015
00:49:05,700 --> 00:49:07,800
I'd probably run outside more 
but otherwise I have to figure 

1016
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:09,600
it out and I don't want you. 
So I'll just stay on my 

1017
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:11,400
treadmill. 
So just like thinking through 

1018
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,000
Services of things like that, 
that would help Runners 

1019
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,300
experience the Run. 
Either helping them continue to 

1020
00:49:17,300 --> 00:49:19,700
do the way they loved it, or 
opening them up to other things,

1021
00:49:19,700 --> 00:49:21,900
but they have barriers that are 
keeping them from getting there.

1022
00:49:21,900 --> 00:49:23,900
So that's the other way. 
We've been starting to kind of 

1023
00:49:23,900 --> 00:49:27,200
understand different types of 
runners. 

1024
00:49:28,300 --> 00:49:31,400
So, you're taking, if I could 
summarize this, your take one of

1025
00:49:31,408 --> 00:49:33,900
the ways, you something, you 
categorize Runners that is the 

1026
00:49:33,900 --> 00:49:38,000
deviator and non deviator in 
terms of their, their habitual, 

1027
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,400
their movement Pathways, right? 
And hat. 

1028
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:42,900
Is there something we can do to 
help facilitate that better or 

1029
00:49:42,900 --> 00:49:47,400
not. 
I'm hearing the the Evan, what 

1030
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,700
was the terms you use the area 
of our structural area versus 

1031
00:49:51,700 --> 00:49:53,000
trust jokes? 
I know there's a couple other 

1032
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:54,900
companies that use some slightly
different terms. 

1033
00:49:54,900 --> 00:49:57,200
Yeah, I'm trying to make sure 
you use the correct one. 

1034
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:01,200
So error was just Trust rule. 
There's also the stride versus 

1035
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:04,500
Cadence stuff and you're taking 
all this into account but then 

1036
00:50:04,500 --> 00:50:08,600
also sounds like you're also 
taking the motivation and 

1037
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:11,400
psychology into it which that 
one a totally different way. 

1038
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,400
So my brains going, I don't I 
know what systems equation 

1039
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,000
modeling is. 
I don't know how to do it, but 

1040
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:17,900
that sounds like that's what you
have to do to bring this all 

1041
00:50:17,900 --> 00:50:20,900
together but it sounds like 
you're really trying to 

1042
00:50:20,900 --> 00:50:23,600
understand not just hey how did 
these individuals move? 

1043
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:26,100
But also why are they moving 
right? 

1044
00:50:26,100 --> 00:50:27,500
In terms of what their 
motivations are? 

1045
00:50:27,500 --> 00:50:28,300
Are they? 
Did. 

1046
00:50:28,300 --> 00:50:31,300
And that's not something I would
have necessarily thought about 

1047
00:50:31,300 --> 00:50:34,100
from a footwear development 
perspective, that's something as

1048
00:50:34,100 --> 00:50:35,400
a clinician. 
I think about, in terms of 

1049
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:38,100
motivating people to get more 
active and going, what, what 

1050
00:50:38,100 --> 00:50:40,600
Avenues do you have, is your 
neighborhood even safe. 

1051
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:42,700
Right. 
Why do you choose the same 

1052
00:50:42,700 --> 00:50:44,800
route? 
Is that something you have the 

1053
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,700
flexibility to do or Jen? 
As you mentioned, is this run, 

1054
00:50:49,100 --> 00:50:50,800
it's not just a, hey, I'm going 
to exercise. 

1055
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,500
This is your one moment where 
you have control over the 

1056
00:50:53,500 --> 00:50:56,300
environment, and it's this time 
when you actually have some 

1057
00:50:56,300 --> 00:50:59,700
stability, mentally, Which is 
very real for a lot of people. 

1058
00:50:59,900 --> 00:51:05,200
What is that look like creating 
a product to facilitate that? 

1059
00:51:05,300 --> 00:51:09,800
So it's a very interesting thing
to go beyond biomechanics, and 

1060
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:13,600
go start looking at how What's 
Happening Here, influences that.

1061
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,600
So, that's a very different 
avenue, how? 

1062
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:17,700
I don't even know where to 
begin. 

1063
00:51:17,700 --> 00:51:21,500
How did you, how did that come 
to be and how do you integrate 

1064
00:51:21,500 --> 00:51:24,400
those to, which that probably is
a 40? 

1065
00:51:25,900 --> 00:51:29,400
So I'm just not sure how to act.
I'm not sure how to ask that 

1066
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:31,600
question. 
I don't know how to ask that 

1067
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,500
question to be totally honest. 
So, maybe you can translate my, 

1068
00:51:35,300 --> 00:51:37,900
my baby brain, my baby PhD 
brain. 

1069
00:51:37,900 --> 00:51:40,000
Who doesn't still doesn't know 
how to ask great questions and 

1070
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:41,900
still learning? 
But there's a lot of these. 

1071
00:51:41,900 --> 00:51:44,100
So, even for the ones, I said, 
the watch ones. 

1072
00:51:44,100 --> 00:51:46,800
Those just came out of us, 
getting access to watch, data in

1073
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:49,200
you, or just noticing some of 
these patterns and then starting

1074
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,100
to wonder why they're happening.
And then again, it's a all come 

1075
00:51:52,100 --> 00:51:55,700
from make that the to me still 
everyone's working at Brooks. 

1076
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:57,800
The runner is at the center of 
it for them. 

1077
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,500
And you are just trying to make 
them have the best experience 

1078
00:52:00,500 --> 00:52:02,300
they can have. 
And whether it's because of the 

1079
00:52:02,308 --> 00:52:05,500
product part of it, or the 
mental part of it, that everyone

1080
00:52:05,500 --> 00:52:08,500
knows is a very big lift with, 
in the Bible of people run. 

1081
00:52:09,700 --> 00:52:12,800
But besides even our team back 
to that, kind of mental aspect, 

1082
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,600
we have a whole other team 
cauldron sites, which is another

1083
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:19,700
15 ish people within the brand. 
That's a different group than 

1084
00:52:19,700 --> 00:52:21,700
our group, but they're all on 
this mental side. 

1085
00:52:21,700 --> 00:52:24,600
They try to get at like, why you
run, why you don't run. 

1086
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,200
How it shows up differently, you
might look at Trail Runners 

1087
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,500
compared to Road. 
Honors and like how that 

1088
00:52:29,500 --> 00:52:32,300
eventually comes into product, 
even if you're in a trail space 

1089
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:40,400
you still care a lot about what 
is a barrier for somebody and 

1090
00:52:40,500 --> 00:52:42,400
and I can't like give you a good
example. 

1091
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,800
Now that of course I have to 
like rent signs, done several 

1092
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:49,000
projects all year round that 
really does Guy like a direction

1093
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:52,900
you're going in in maybe still 
like your motivation part even 

1094
00:52:52,900 --> 00:52:55,200
though the product isn't 
directly attached to it at that 

1095
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,000
stage. 
So I just say that say it It's 

1096
00:52:58,008 --> 00:53:00,900
not even only our research side 
but the brand that that's doing 

1097
00:53:00,900 --> 00:53:04,100
a lot into getting, into the 
mind of the runner to, to really

1098
00:53:04,100 --> 00:53:07,400
understand them the best. 
Because if you do, we will 

1099
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:09,400
succeed on the other side of 
whether its products or 

1100
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:13,500
Services, what we want to help 
them achieve having, you 

1101
00:53:13,508 --> 00:53:14,700
probably were this better than I
do. 

1102
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:16,900
It was my rambling now. 
I think you did a great. 

1103
00:53:16,900 --> 00:53:20,600
Yeah it's it's all in 
exploration right now as well, 

1104
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:21,700
right? 
Like we're always learning how 

1105
00:53:21,700 --> 00:53:24,500
do these things show up and 
everything and audio? 

1106
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,100
Kind of what Jen was saying? 
No, we get a lot of it, just 

1107
00:53:27,100 --> 00:53:30,800
from data, we Acquired. 
And so we're figuring out how to

1108
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,800
make that start showing up and 
everything and when it comes to 

1109
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,600
a lot of these larger Concepts 
and know, a lot of that will 

1110
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:39,200
come back to the original point 
of like, the collaboration side 

1111
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:42,400
and know what stories resonate 
with marketing with product line

1112
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:45,400
management and all of that and 
know where can we really bring 

1113
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,300
forward. 
So we do have really unique 

1114
00:53:47,300 --> 00:53:50,100
benefits to Runners with what we
are able to show up with for 

1115
00:53:50,100 --> 00:53:53,000
them know what kind of always 
have that key intent behind it 

1116
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:54,900
for sure and the breath run 
club. 

1117
00:53:54,900 --> 00:53:58,200
I'm not sure how much 
advertising that's Come out 

1118
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:00,000
through but the Brooks Run Club 
that's going to be a lot more 

1119
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,800
about connection. 
It's about making connections 

1120
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,600
with other Runners finding other
Runners that you identify with. 

1121
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:07,700
Because again, there is this 
massive spectrum of how the Run 

1122
00:54:07,700 --> 00:54:10,600
shows up for everybody, 
providing content, educational 

1123
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,800
content. 
That will be a big outlet for us

1124
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,300
in terms of where you'd see some
of these things come through as 

1125
00:54:16,300 --> 00:54:18,100
well. 
In addition to the products that

1126
00:54:18,100 --> 00:54:20,100
we're creating, so that makes me
curious. 

1127
00:54:20,100 --> 00:54:23,400
So this is going to hopefully we
don't go down to deeper rathole.

1128
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:27,600
So one of the area's, I did not 
pursue specifically for my 

1129
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:28,300
dissertation. 
He should. 

1130
00:54:28,300 --> 00:54:30,900
But one of my interests from 
clinically is understanding 

1131
00:54:30,900 --> 00:54:33,400
pain, science, and people's 
perception of, not only their 

1132
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:39,500
bodies but how our understanding
of pain and are like our own 

1133
00:54:39,508 --> 00:54:42,300
bodies is we're just beginning 
to get this. 

1134
00:54:42,300 --> 00:54:45,700
So there's some great research 
that's coming out on depression 

1135
00:54:45,700 --> 00:54:49,500
and pain levels and how you can 
actually see that and how people

1136
00:54:49,500 --> 00:54:51,700
hold themselves and how it 
affects their movement patterns.

1137
00:54:51,708 --> 00:54:56,400
So my have you looked at insert 
that I'm assuming that's why 

1138
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:57,400
you're looking at some of this 
too. 

1139
00:54:57,400 --> 00:54:58,300
In addition. 
To knowing. 

1140
00:54:58,300 --> 00:55:00,300
Hey, how do we make better 
product for People based on what

1141
00:55:00,300 --> 00:55:02,900
their needs are? 
That must create a challenge, 

1142
00:55:02,900 --> 00:55:06,200
knowing, hey, knowing that our 
moods knowing that our beliefs 

1143
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:09,100
knowing it, how are perceiving 
the world changes our movement 

1144
00:55:09,100 --> 00:55:13,200
patterns, how do you factor that
into developing a shoe, right? 

1145
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:16,100
Because that's another variable 
that I'm now my brains going, 

1146
00:55:16,100 --> 00:55:18,700
oh, I've just realized this in 
terms of development, in terms 

1147
00:55:18,700 --> 00:55:21,800
of how we understand the human 
being in front of us, it's not 

1148
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:24,000
just hey, they've got this 
unique movement pattern, but 

1149
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:28,000
this unique movement pattern 
also will vary depending on On 

1150
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:29,700
moods to bit. 
Like, Jen, as you mentioned 

1151
00:55:29,700 --> 00:55:32,500
going, do I feel safe in my 
environment, right? 

1152
00:55:32,500 --> 00:55:35,700
Your mechanics are going to 
change because going into a 

1153
00:55:35,700 --> 00:55:39,400
protective mode is very 
different, kinematically muscle 

1154
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:41,900
activation wise. 
Possibly, then I feel great, I 

1155
00:55:41,908 --> 00:55:44,700
got a great sidewalk. 
I found this nice running path, 

1156
00:55:44,700 --> 00:55:46,000
I don't have to worry about 
that. 

1157
00:55:46,300 --> 00:55:49,600
How do you begin to think about 
that other than just taking that

1158
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:51,000
data and going. 
All right, so we've got 

1159
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,700
something to start with, but I 
can't even begin to make the 

1160
00:55:53,700 --> 00:55:55,800
connection between. 
How do you develop a shoe? 

1161
00:55:56,700 --> 00:56:00,200
With that knowledge. 
I get super excited and this 

1162
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:02,000
one, hopefully I'm loves this 
one. 

1163
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:06,000
Prepare for the rabbit hole. 
Yeah, get pull me back out and 

1164
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:09,600
stop me. 
I'm rambling through these but I

1165
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:12,000
love the mental side of it 
because I really do think like 

1166
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:14,800
again if someone who's like 
never fully always finds a super

1167
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:17,200
happy space on the run, it 
always feels really hard for me,

1168
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,000
but I'll feel very big 
difference from my one run to 

1169
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:21,900
the next even though my runs are
exactly the same. 

1170
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,600
It'll be very much impacted by 
the rest of my mood and how good

1171
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:28,600
that day was. 
And the PHD was probably always 

1172
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:33,000
a pretty low mood so compared to
like thank you for validating. 

1173
00:56:33,100 --> 00:56:39,700
Yes, but I mean research-wise it
you have to start by like caring

1174
00:56:39,700 --> 00:56:42,100
about it like being interested 
to even understand it with the 

1175
00:56:42,100 --> 00:56:44,100
so you know that that data 
doesn't just show up in front of

1176
00:56:44,100 --> 00:56:46,000
you magically. 
So like you have to plan it. 

1177
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:49,000
Very purposefully into your 
study designs in terms of what 

1178
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,700
you're even trying to remotely 
understand it is so like, for 

1179
00:56:52,700 --> 00:56:57,300
example, we don't our in-house 
research is quite heavy, but To 

1180
00:56:57,300 --> 00:56:58,700
partner with our external 
collaborators. 

1181
00:56:58,700 --> 00:57:00,800
So, we're partnering with the 
Indiana University at the 

1182
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:02,200
moment. 
They're actually doing two big 

1183
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:04,500
studies for us that are looking 
at these mood States. 

1184
00:57:04,500 --> 00:57:07,900
So they'll have people come in 
on repeated runs so it'll be in 

1185
00:57:07,900 --> 00:57:10,300
a lab space. 
That's one like lab space one 

1186
00:57:10,500 --> 00:57:13,000
but they'll still fill out a 
full mood based survey to 

1187
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:14,700
understand how that was and then
they're going to look at an 

1188
00:57:14,700 --> 00:57:17,600
extended run on the treadmill 
and see how ya kinematics and 

1189
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:20,100
your emotion changed. 
And if there was any link with 

1190
00:57:20,100 --> 00:57:23,000
the mood that you notice there, 
and you already see some 

1191
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,100
interesting things of just like 
the exact same run. 

1192
00:57:25,100 --> 00:57:27,000
They start with the same 
physiological start and 

1193
00:57:27,100 --> 00:57:29,600
endpoints of why they did the 
Run distance they did for a very

1194
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,100
controlled study, but there 
seemed very different 

1195
00:57:32,100 --> 00:57:34,800
physiological reactions from 
your heart rate, very different 

1196
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:37,200
times of when they hit that 
endpoint of the run with a 

1197
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:41,400
stopped earlier and linking it 
to like what the mood was that 

1198
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:47,000
day when it comes into product, 
like just some ideation spaces, 

1199
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:54,000
but How you even just like, okay
yeah or my brain if they're 

1200
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:56,400
like, how use dried it out? 
Or like if you're going to land 

1201
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:58,700
really far back on your heel, 
compared to just even a little 

1202
00:57:58,700 --> 00:58:01,700
bit, flatter makes a totally 
different underfoot experience 

1203
00:58:01,700 --> 00:58:04,500
because all those geometries 
that are designed and that back 

1204
00:58:04,500 --> 00:58:08,800
lateral, he'll can are meant to 
collapse so that they serve like

1205
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:12,400
a car crash and kind of absorb 
all that impact at Landing 95% 

1206
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:16,200
of people and back there. 
So if you're really hitting 

1207
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,000
farther back, you might Crush 
through to easily. 

1208
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:20,000
Now, all of a sudden, The shoe 
that used to feel pretty soft, 

1209
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,200
is feeling pretty hard and 
because you press through it and

1210
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,100
hit the ground, essentially on 
the other side of it. 

1211
00:58:25,100 --> 00:58:28,000
So when we think of like, how do
you personalized products 

1212
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:30,400
through a geometry space, if you
did start to understand like 

1213
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:33,400
what happens to happened with a 
mood, is you start to either 

1214
00:58:33,700 --> 00:58:35,500
change your stride length, or 
you're changing what your 

1215
00:58:35,500 --> 00:58:37,900
Cadence is and which either one 
of those, you're seeing a change

1216
00:58:37,900 --> 00:58:39,500
in that they're Landing a little
flatter. 

1217
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:43,000
You're not even reading as much 
at Landing inverting as much at 

1218
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:45,300
landing and they're probably not
going to crush you that compound

1219
00:58:45,300 --> 00:58:46,900
as much and it won't feel as 
soft. 

1220
00:58:46,900 --> 00:58:50,000
So you start to think about how 
you would change your geometries

1221
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,200
in the back heel so that it 
still feels soft. 

1222
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:55,400
Whether someone's going to land 
pretty far back or somebody 

1223
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:58,700
forward and then if you're going
to guide them to started shoot, 

1224
00:58:58,700 --> 00:58:59,900
sorry. 
My son's trying to break into 

1225
00:58:59,900 --> 00:59:02,300
the room so bad. 
They didn't have headphones for 

1226
00:59:02,300 --> 00:59:05,700
this long and you say the noise 
will be durable and I will 

1227
00:59:05,700 --> 00:59:07,300
totally bright. 
Blame my two-year-old. 

1228
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:11,900
So those are some of the spaces,
but the initial question. 

1229
00:59:11,900 --> 00:59:15,200
Yeah, you need to be interested 
in it to bring it into your 

1230
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:17,800
study dying. 
Designed to even start in a way 

1231
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:19,900
that you can use. 
Information on the other end in 

1232
00:59:19,900 --> 00:59:22,300
a way. 
That's that means something. 

1233
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:24,600
Otherwise there's a lot of very 
terrible study designs. 

1234
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:27,000
You can do or it doesn't 
translate to absolutely anything

1235
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:29,400
let alone knowing how to make 
product from it on the other 

1236
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:31,700
side. 
So it sounds like it's just it's

1237
00:59:31,700 --> 00:59:35,400
being aware and planning this 
into design, but it seems like 

1238
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:38,000
the concept of run Sig. 
It goes back to the concept of 

1239
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:39,000
run. 
Signature is going. 

1240
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:41,400
All right. 
So we know people might have a 

1241
00:59:41,408 --> 00:59:44,400
habitual motion path but that 
can vary. 

1242
00:59:44,500 --> 00:59:48,800
And how do we help facilitate 
that regardless of what It's 

1243
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:51,400
going on with just hadn't 
thought about before, as we 

1244
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,700
know, now that your mood and 
your mental state and a variety 

1245
00:59:54,700 --> 00:59:56,500
of other factors can influence 
that. 

1246
00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:00,800
How do we also account for that 
level of variation while not 

1247
01:00:01,100 --> 01:00:05,200
making a shoe that feels like it
forces you in that direction? 

1248
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:07,100
So it's just add it. 
It's just going hey we know 

1249
01:00:07,100 --> 01:00:10,000
this. 
How do we we Factor this in 

1250
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,400
understanding that may cause 
some additional variation in the

1251
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:16,100
fun part is what kind of 
variation does that cause and 

1252
01:00:16,100 --> 01:00:17,800
the solutions are hopefully 
already there. 

1253
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:20,100
Like I said we are Make a 
variety of solutions and now 

1254
01:00:20,100 --> 01:00:22,500
just comes recommendation, 
bucket on the other side. 

1255
01:00:22,500 --> 01:00:27,400
So you might be, you know, for 
you when your mood state is like

1256
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:32,100
this, you tend to start becoming
a higher deviator sooner in your

1257
01:00:32,100 --> 01:00:33,700
run. 
Whereas if your mood state is 

1258
01:00:33,700 --> 01:00:36,700
like this, you stay alone 
deviator for really long time. 

1259
01:00:36,700 --> 01:00:39,700
So like if you're feeling a way 
a certain day that the mood 

1260
01:00:39,700 --> 01:00:42,400
state would indicate you might 
become a high deviator sooner. 

1261
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:45,400
You might need a guide real 
product for that day and a 

1262
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:47,900
neutral product. 
Might serve you on the good mood

1263
01:00:47,900 --> 01:00:50,100
State days. 
He's so like that's more like 

1264
01:00:50,100 --> 01:00:52,800
the recommendation space rather 
than we need like full-blown new

1265
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:55,700
Solutions. 
It's just you did run like this 

1266
01:00:55,700 --> 01:00:57,800
type of Runner and now you're 
looking like this type of Runner

1267
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:00,700
because of this mood state, but 
we have solutions for both. 

1268
01:01:00,700 --> 01:01:02,300
So here's just your guidance 
Spectrum. 

1269
01:01:02,300 --> 01:01:05,800
So it's moving beyond. 
I think one of the older ways of

1270
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:09,000
thinking and those of us who 
worked in run retail many years 

1271
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:11,700
ago, probably know this of hey, 
you're either neutral stability 

1272
01:01:11,700 --> 01:01:14,300
category which unfortunately 
still seems to pervade. 

1273
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:17,700
What it sounds like we're moving
towards is less of. 

1274
01:01:17,700 --> 01:01:20,400
Let's put you in this. 
Camp at more of hey you know 

1275
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:24,000
what Chooser tools if you know 
your body and you know how you 

1276
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:27,200
very one day, you might need 
this product which tends to 

1277
01:01:27,208 --> 01:01:29,800
maybe help facilitate you. 
If you're going to deviating a 

1278
01:01:29,808 --> 01:01:33,800
little bit more verses, we have 
this other product that this 

1279
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:37,600
tool for when hey when you maybe
don't need that as much or you 

1280
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:39,900
need something else and kind of 
going back to what we talked 

1281
01:01:39,900 --> 01:01:42,500
about is shoes being tools and 
kind of going, how do we help 

1282
01:01:42,500 --> 01:01:47,200
the runner understand when and 
when one might be more 

1283
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,900
appropriate the other and now 
Getting people more aware of how

1284
01:01:50,900 --> 01:01:53,300
is your mood can affect? 
This is just another way to go. 

1285
01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:57,300
This is just the variety that 
you have is because you're human

1286
01:01:57,300 --> 01:01:59,200
being. 
And so how do we help facilitate

1287
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:02,300
that understanding and teach 
people to be aware of that? 

1288
01:02:02,300 --> 01:02:03,600
So you can keep enjoying 
running. 

1289
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:05,600
It's not to panic people. 
Go, a you're here you have this 

1290
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:08,000
movie going to get injured but 
more of how do we keep you 

1291
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:10,300
enjoying this as much as 
possible even though we know 

1292
01:02:10,300 --> 01:02:12,600
it's hard it running is hard. 
Right? 

1293
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:16,100
That's just I've had so many 
people patients, like start 

1294
01:02:16,100 --> 01:02:17,900
running and getting active. 
Like this is really hard. 

1295
01:02:17,900 --> 01:02:20,500
Like yeah. 
There's like but sometimes you 

1296
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:22,700
there likes but I see some 
people look like enjoy it. 

1297
01:02:22,700 --> 01:02:28,400
Like know what I think Evans 
enough finger I feel like they 

1298
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:31,400
just take a nap. 
I've got the I've got the 

1299
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:33,300
opposite where I look like I'm 
dying. 

1300
01:02:33,300 --> 01:02:35,700
People like are you should you 
be doing that? 

1301
01:02:35,700 --> 01:02:37,700
And I'm like yeah no I'm feel it
looks it's great. 

1302
01:02:37,700 --> 01:02:39,500
Like that's not how that looks 
like. 

1303
01:02:39,500 --> 01:02:43,000
You look like you're dying like 
well a little bit but it's like 

1304
01:02:43,100 --> 01:02:45,300
a positive. 
It's an enjoyable, right? 

1305
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:49,400
Yeah death, yeah. 
That's really cool. 

1306
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:52,500
So it's being able. 
So sounds like one of the things

1307
01:02:52,500 --> 01:02:53,800
that's really cool about 
Brooks's. 

1308
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:56,400
You're going Beyond, not just 
hey, here's a product. 

1309
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:59,500
But how do we educate people and
how do we make better decisions 

1310
01:02:59,500 --> 01:03:01,100
and help the runner to learn 
more about themselves? 

1311
01:03:01,100 --> 01:03:03,300
Which is the whole reason? 
What we do, we do. 

1312
01:03:03,700 --> 01:03:06,900
But I'm curious to know and I 
don't know if you could say 

1313
01:03:06,900 --> 01:03:08,900
there's not, we might have to 
edit this out. 

1314
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:13,100
So you're going through 
understanding how psychology can

1315
01:03:13,100 --> 01:03:15,500
impact movements and how to 
account for that? 

1316
01:03:16,700 --> 01:03:18,500
What's kind of the what's the 
next step? 

1317
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:21,100
If there is one, if you're 
still, you're still looking and 

1318
01:03:21,100 --> 01:03:22,900
researching this. 
What do you think is the next 

1319
01:03:22,900 --> 01:03:26,700
step in terms of going Beyond, 
or maybe even combining 

1320
01:03:26,700 --> 01:03:30,700
psychology as we as it as a 
human race, seem to be much more

1321
01:03:30,700 --> 01:03:33,100
aware and accepting of mental 
health and understanding the 

1322
01:03:33,108 --> 01:03:35,800
variations that happening and 
redefining, what's normal? 

1323
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:40,500
What's the next step integrating
that into Footwear? 

1324
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:42,800
Like is that something we make 
this huge deal about or is it 

1325
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:45,200
something that kind of 
seamlessly slides in again? 

1326
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:47,500
I don't know if I'm asking this 
question very well, but how do 

1327
01:03:47,500 --> 01:03:50,100
we integrate this? 
Kept better, Jenny take that one

1328
01:03:50,100 --> 01:03:53,000
with all the dash l x in the IU 
stuff and kind of planning. 

1329
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:55,000
Their. 
Yeah, I was well, I feel like 

1330
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:58,600
I've been talking all times like
Mau all talk about geometry 

1331
01:03:58,600 --> 01:03:59,800
stuff after. 
How about that? 

1332
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:08,300
Yeah, yeah, I mean, The Amita. 
Maybe I won't answer this fully 

1333
01:04:08,300 --> 01:04:09,200
accurately. 
The media. 

1334
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:12,200
Next up was again still how do 
we get out there to capture that

1335
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:16,100
information from very wide scope
of people so that we're not in 

1336
01:04:16,100 --> 01:04:19,000
our own Echo chamber, you know, 
working with a small sub sample 

1337
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:24,100
and like, totally blinded by the
mass population out there with 

1338
01:04:24,100 --> 01:04:26,000
this how wide the Spectrum 
actually is. 

1339
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:28,100
So I can terms of oscillatory 
and focusing on. 

1340
01:04:28,100 --> 01:04:31,600
Still, in research wise is to be
able to get out to get out with 

1341
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:34,800
the runner in an easy space that
they can be engaged with us. 

1342
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:37,300
So whether it's Passive that you
just openly decide to share your

1343
01:04:37,300 --> 01:04:40,600
watch data with us, which is 
really beneficial for us to help

1344
01:04:40,700 --> 01:04:43,000
identify and connect you with 
these different patterns were 

1345
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:46,300
noticing based on folks that are
similar to yourself from what we

1346
01:04:46,300 --> 01:04:50,200
can tell from watch to more 
active engagement cuz that's 

1347
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:52,100
very passive. 
So how do you also if you 

1348
01:04:52,100 --> 01:04:55,600
participate in run Club, but 
make it a two-way street, you 

1349
01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:58,700
know, it's not just here we give
you content and of interaction. 

1350
01:04:58,700 --> 01:05:02,800
But like what is our journaling 
or Diary ng that we could have 

1351
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:06,600
you engage with someone a human.
And on the other side that can 

1352
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:12,400
take these learnings and really 
maximize that space z, when I 

1353
01:05:12,408 --> 01:05:13,700
think about them, like my Apple 
watch. 

1354
01:05:13,700 --> 01:05:17,600
I mean, It gives me trends. 
It's just like you're very 

1355
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:19,000
classic. 
It's going to find all the 

1356
01:05:19,008 --> 01:05:20,600
things you've done is going to 
tell you a trend. 

1357
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:23,000
It tells me if my steps are gone
up or my steps have gone down 

1358
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:24,300
and usually I'm like, yeah, I 
know. 

1359
01:05:24,300 --> 01:05:27,600
I was sick. 
You did a week off and give me a

1360
01:05:27,608 --> 01:05:29,800
break. 
Let's get just like points it 

1361
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:32,900
out to me. 
And I usually in those moments 

1362
01:05:32,900 --> 01:05:34,500
wish you somehow knew me as a 
human. 

1363
01:05:34,500 --> 01:05:36,500
I'm like, can't you like tell 
that I'm sick? 

1364
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:39,600
Instead of like making me feel 
bad that I didn't move this week

1365
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:42,200
or something. 
So to me, there's this like 

1366
01:05:42,500 --> 01:05:45,400
that. 
Part of the devices, like, it's 

1367
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:48,200
kind of It's scary, but to like 
really connect and understand 

1368
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:51,500
what's happening with you 
Brooks. 

1369
01:05:51,500 --> 01:05:53,800
Can't do that immediately. 
That's obviously very big Tech 

1370
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:56,300
but it's still that the media 
one is getting out so that we 

1371
01:05:56,300 --> 01:05:58,200
can connect with as many people 
as we can. 

1372
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:02,300
So we know we're building for 
all we're not in that space But 

1373
01:06:02,500 --> 01:06:03,800
I don't know. 
Like the next me you won't have 

1374
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:05,100
to that. 
You can have any puzzling on 

1375
01:06:05,100 --> 01:06:08,800
that and knowing I'm going to 
walk, and if I can ask a 

1376
01:06:08,808 --> 01:06:11,400
question that initiates another 
question, but that's great, but 

1377
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:14,200
it sounds like we're still in 
the data collection phase, 

1378
01:06:14,700 --> 01:06:15,800
right? 
We're aware of this. 

1379
01:06:15,900 --> 01:06:19,000
This me nerd out for a minute, 
we've got our introduction. 

1380
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:22,900
We've got our methods section of
the data necessary to really 

1381
01:06:22,900 --> 01:06:26,300
make any kind of conclusive 
statements on how this really 

1382
01:06:26,300 --> 01:06:27,900
goes yet. 
So we still have to collect that

1383
01:06:27,900 --> 01:06:32,900
data and then when we analyze it
and fully, then we can maybe 

1384
01:06:32,900 --> 01:06:36,500
start generating some additional
questions and that's kind of 

1385
01:06:36,508 --> 01:06:37,700
where we're at. 
We're aware of it. 

1386
01:06:37,700 --> 01:06:39,700
Well there's some cool next 
steps of going. 

1387
01:06:39,700 --> 01:06:44,100
How does how you feel, your 
mental state, impact your 

1388
01:06:44,100 --> 01:06:46,400
running mechanics. 
And then how do we Making 

1389
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:50,000
Footwear to facilitate that, 
right? 

1390
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:51,700
It's other Factor. 
We're now aware of that. 

1391
01:06:51,700 --> 01:06:54,400
We might be able to take into 
account, especially as it. 

1392
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:58,300
Might we can theorize in terms 
of injuries or deviations or 

1393
01:06:58,300 --> 01:07:00,800
what have you. 
And I think a question kind of 

1394
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:04,300
feeds into it. 
Well that you asked just a 

1395
01:07:04,308 --> 01:07:07,100
little bit ago of like, is this 
going to be something new or 

1396
01:07:07,100 --> 01:07:08,700
something? 
Yeah, this kind of seamlessly 

1397
01:07:08,700 --> 01:07:12,400
feeds in. 
Is that is yeah, that's kind of 

1398
01:07:12,408 --> 01:07:15,400
where I see it personally of 
like I say, we do find out that 

1399
01:07:15,900 --> 01:07:18,300
To the point say you're in a 
dark neighborhood and you are 

1400
01:07:18,300 --> 01:07:21,700
running say earth like no 
stiffer leg or stiffer, ankle 

1401
01:07:21,700 --> 01:07:24,000
knee joint, that's just kind of 
reaction of what you're doing. 

1402
01:07:24,300 --> 01:07:27,900
Well we have we can dig in the 
lab data, maybe like right 

1403
01:07:27,900 --> 01:07:30,300
people that do have higher knee 
joint stiffness or higher leg 

1404
01:07:30,300 --> 01:07:33,500
stiffness or how did they 
interact with these types of 

1405
01:07:33,500 --> 01:07:37,400
products or you know people that
just say we find out different 

1406
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:40,200
contact times in general. 
How do they interact with the 

1407
01:07:40,208 --> 01:07:42,400
products differently and 
everything? 

1408
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:46,000
So it's kind of that what we 
learn from their can really Your

1409
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:50,800
point influence do we need 
follow-up questions, or does it 

1410
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:52,900
kind of fit right in and where 
does that go? 

1411
01:07:52,900 --> 01:07:56,100
Because we have three credit a 
lot that we can learn from just 

1412
01:07:56,100 --> 01:07:59,100
with how many people we brought 
into the lab and being very 

1413
01:07:59,100 --> 01:08:03,600
purposefully intentional and 
having a large variance for 

1414
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:06,200
sure. 
So it sounds like it's hey we 

1415
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:09,800
actually might have that data. 
We just need to look and then 

1416
01:08:09,800 --> 01:08:12,900
make sure we're asking the right
question and do we have first of

1417
01:08:12,900 --> 01:08:15,800
all, the which the first 
follow-up question is, do we? 

1418
01:08:15,900 --> 01:08:17,899
I already have the data. 
Can we look at that? 

1419
01:08:18,100 --> 01:08:21,200
And then see what patterns are 
happening and start, maybe 

1420
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:22,600
seeing if we can match that 
better. 

1421
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,300
Basically. 
Yeah, yeah, whatever. 

1422
01:08:25,700 --> 01:08:28,800
Whatever we learn outside of the
lab, we've got so much, you can 

1423
01:08:28,800 --> 01:08:31,700
probably start getting buckets 
of Runners from people, we have 

1424
01:08:31,700 --> 01:08:34,200
in the lab and then this kind of
really, really intentionally 

1425
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:36,500
sift through ask good questions,
understand what that would be. 

1426
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:39,000
This is left me with a lot to 
think about. 

1427
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:41,700
Hopefully, our viewers and 
listeners also with the same 

1428
01:08:41,700 --> 01:08:43,800
amount. 
And I'm hoping when people walk 

1429
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:47,399
away from this is understanding,
How complicated this can be. 

1430
01:08:47,399 --> 01:08:51,300
And eschew, you see in front of 
you isn't just a shoe, right? 

1431
01:08:51,300 --> 01:08:53,200
It's literally. 
Someone's a group of people's 

1432
01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:56,700
baby, that they've put all this 
work into doing their best to 

1433
01:08:56,700 --> 01:08:59,500
go. 
How is this going to facilitate 

1434
01:08:59,500 --> 01:09:02,000
Runners mechanics? 
Also, how does it, you know, 

1435
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:03,800
from the marketing team? 
How do we make sure this thing 

1436
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:05,800
sells, right? 
This is whole team that goes 

1437
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:08,200
into it. 
So it's not just randomly done, 

1438
01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:11,200
but also the thought that goes 
into this, there's a lot more 

1439
01:09:11,500 --> 01:09:13,600
that goes into Footwear, design 
and development. 

1440
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:16,000
Then just add you move. 
Right. 

1441
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:19,000
We're getting to realize, how 
much more complicated this is. 

1442
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:22,899
Unfortunately, we have the tools
now to analyze some of that but 

1443
01:09:22,899 --> 01:09:25,300
it's just processing. 
That understanding is this this 

1444
01:09:25,300 --> 01:09:29,000
lifelong process, which is 
pretty sweet which means you'll 

1445
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:35,700
never be. 
Never bored the moment. 

1446
01:09:35,700 --> 01:09:38,600
You think, you know everything, 
you should probably quit because

1447
01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:41,700
you're going to hurt someone 
because you really don't because

1448
01:09:41,700 --> 01:09:43,500
everything changes every few 
years. 

1449
01:09:43,500 --> 01:09:46,399
It's like, you just have to be 
ready to For that. 

1450
01:09:46,399 --> 01:09:49,700
And it seems like that's kind of
consistent, no matter what 

1451
01:09:49,700 --> 01:09:52,399
industry you're in, especially 
when it involves dealing with 

1452
01:09:52,399 --> 01:09:54,000
the human being, that's thousand
percent. 

1453
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:57,400
So yeah, so my last question for
both of you. 

1454
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:00,200
If you can share this, I'm 
curious. 

1455
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:02,800
What big if we haven't touched 
on it already. 

1456
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:07,000
What big question is rattling 
around in your brain, in regards

1457
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:11,500
to Footwear, what's not been 
answered and it's bothering you 

1458
01:10:11,500 --> 01:10:14,100
right now. 
This is my equivalent for those 

1459
01:10:14,100 --> 01:10:18,100
who have listened before. 
When people would ask, if this 

1460
01:10:18,100 --> 01:10:22,000
shoe was a sports team and then 
I sit there panicking not 

1461
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:23,900
knowing what to do, because I 
don't follow sports team and 

1462
01:10:23,900 --> 01:10:25,200
everybody else has their 
dancers. 

1463
01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:27,200
Like, I'm trying to ask these 
challenging questions. 

1464
01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:32,200
People thing for the, the OG 
listeners, I did that support 

1465
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:35,500
David the other day and I was 
like, if each member of dor was 

1466
01:10:35,500 --> 01:10:41,100
a shoe, who would it be? 
And he was, like, go listen now 

1467
01:10:41,100 --> 01:10:43,600
I really think that one. 
If I was a shoe at would I be oh

1468
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:45,200
man? 
Yeah, that's difficult one. 

1469
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:49,200
He He gave me the prime X 
because he thinks I'm far too 

1470
01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:56,500
complicated. 
So like that's, that's, that's a

1471
01:10:56,500 --> 01:10:59,400
very complicated to you. 
Also, I was yeah. 

1472
01:11:02,100 --> 01:11:05,300
Um, that's a good question. 
I'm like, I'm so excited about 

1473
01:11:05,300 --> 01:11:07,800
the stuff, we're in the midst of
answering, but I think they are 

1474
01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:10,100
unanswered at the moment. 
So I kind of feel like that's 

1475
01:11:10,100 --> 01:11:12,800
probably a cop-out answer to be 
like, well it's, you know, sir 

1476
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:17,900
but he I love where Brooks is 
going with the breadth of who 

1477
01:11:17,900 --> 01:11:20,100
they're engaging with and 
understanding to point. 

1478
01:11:20,100 --> 01:11:23,200
Not just you on the run but off 
the run and your mental space 

1479
01:11:23,200 --> 01:11:25,300
that's there. 
And I don't think that that's 

1480
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:28,700
talked about anywhere else who 
if another Brands looking at it,

1481
01:11:28,700 --> 01:11:31,800
it's behind the locked door, I 
don't know, but it's not really 

1482
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:34,200
brought up in the conversation. 
I feel like the conversations 

1483
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:39,800
are usually still very focused 
on Pinnacle fastest Elite 

1484
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:42,200
athlete. 
That's kind of like the main 

1485
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:43,900
story that comes out of most 
places. 

1486
01:11:43,900 --> 01:11:49,900
I feel like, so I I'm much more 
excited to understand the full 

1487
01:11:49,900 --> 01:11:52,800
community and getting away from 
this like very Niche area, we 

1488
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:55,000
tend to like flash the light on 
the mystery. 

1489
01:11:55,600 --> 01:11:59,000
Yeah, it's great answer man. 
Knife make you feel guilty for 

1490
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:01,700
staying on like the science 
brain side of it a little bit. 

1491
01:12:01,700 --> 01:12:04,800
Now that's it is no jumping. 
Yeah, I was going to pick your 

1492
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:06,200
brain anyway, you're going to 
say something. 

1493
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:08,600
I interrupted you earlier on 
Geometry that was Holly. 

1494
01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:11,400
We could eat an entire separate 
podcast and geometry. 

1495
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:14,900
Yeah, that truth I'm probably 
gonna pull you back at yourself.

1496
01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:18,300
Please do if you want to come 
back after all. 

1497
01:12:18,300 --> 01:12:26,300
I put you through geometries all
day, one thing, I'm really 

1498
01:12:26,300 --> 01:12:29,200
passionate High School running 
and I think just the idea of 

1499
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:33,500
like what is really just an 
amazing like called a single 

1500
01:12:33,500 --> 01:12:37,800
Arrow quiver shoe that you know 
high school kid of any ability, 

1501
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:43,200
whether they are no banging out 
sub to 800 my 400 workouts doing

1502
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:47,400
insane, 10 Mile runs or the kid 
that like They're jogging a mile

1503
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:52,800
at 12 minutes type of thing like
just what is a shoe that could 

1504
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:55,500
be great for them. 
Whether across all things of 

1505
01:12:55,500 --> 01:12:59,600
aesthetic to fit, feel ride to 
helping support for what is 

1506
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:02,700
worth a skeleton that is not 
fully developed. 

1507
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:05,700
And so there is different layers
of injury risk that we don't 

1508
01:13:05,700 --> 01:13:08,100
fully understand yet and 
obviously they have everything 

1509
01:13:08,100 --> 01:13:10,500
going on hormone wise if 
everything going on novel 

1510
01:13:10,500 --> 01:13:12,600
training, load wise and 
everything. 

1511
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:16,200
And so I think it's some that's 
an area I think is Because it's 

1512
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:19,100
such a formative Point. 
That's really when I personally 

1513
01:13:19,100 --> 01:13:21,000
fell, in love with running even 
more than I already did. 

1514
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:24,400
And just knowing like the 
awesome experience that Footwear

1515
01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:27,800
can help from just Annex what 
are the experience of having it 

1516
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:31,000
or just that protection 
standpoint or getting your Jazz 

1517
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:33,500
for the run. 
Now you got scenario. 

1518
01:13:33,500 --> 01:13:37,300
I'm really excited about the if 
someone had taken further yeah 

1519
01:13:37,500 --> 01:13:39,400
that's sweet. 
I will share base. 

1520
01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:41,500
That is I. 
So I'll since I threw that at 

1521
01:13:41,500 --> 01:13:44,400
you'll throw all toss one in the
rate ring. 

1522
01:13:44,400 --> 01:13:48,600
Speaking of Gene body and 
hormonal responses to things, we

1523
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:51,100
don't understand one of the 
area's when I was at combined 

1524
01:13:51,100 --> 01:13:55,100
section meeting, which one of 
the big us PT conference, a cup 

1525
01:13:55,100 --> 01:13:58,900
of month or so ago, there was a 
phenomenal lady, whose name, I 

1526
01:13:58,900 --> 01:14:02,200
am blanking on at the moment. 
I feel so bad but she's one of 

1527
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:04,300
the few people in the world. 
That's looking at the 

1528
01:14:04,300 --> 01:14:07,700
biomechanics and movement 
patterns of postpartum Runners, 

1529
01:14:08,100 --> 01:14:10,400
which has not been studied at 
all. 

1530
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:12,600
And I say that very limited 
listeners. 

1531
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:14,500
Yeah. 
The the listeners, who don't 

1532
01:14:14,500 --> 01:14:15,700
know? 
I'm going to be a dad soon. 

1533
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:17,400
Soon and have a little girl 
coming. 

1534
01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:20,400
My wife is six months pregnant 
as of this podcast. 

1535
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:24,800
So as a very motivated and 
professional athlete, not 

1536
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:27,300
knowing what's going to happen 
and knowing some clinical stuff 

1537
01:14:27,300 --> 01:14:28,900
and knowing I don't we don't 
know what's going to happen. 

1538
01:14:28,900 --> 01:14:30,700
Her mechanic says, nobody's 
doing that research. 

1539
01:14:30,700 --> 01:14:34,200
We don't know how people 
consistently respond when you 

1540
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:37,000
have that change in hormones, we
don't know. 

1541
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:39,500
As we mentioned earlier, the 
risk, factors for postpartum 

1542
01:14:39,500 --> 01:14:42,100
depression, how that might 
affect that, how we facilitate 

1543
01:14:42,100 --> 01:14:45,500
keeping people active and easing
them back into? 

1544
01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:48,200
Traumatic change. 
Right? 

1545
01:14:48,500 --> 01:14:52,500
That's I think where my biggest 
question is at the moment and my

1546
01:14:52,500 --> 01:14:56,500
poor wife has been such a test 
subject for all my by mechanics 

1547
01:14:56,500 --> 01:14:58,200
testing and she's like, no, I'm 
not doing this anymore. 

1548
01:14:58,200 --> 01:15:01,000
I'm like but I can there's some 
data we could do right now if my

1549
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:05,400
life. 
Yeah I was like this would be 

1550
01:15:05,400 --> 01:15:06,600
great. 
Like no I'm not doing this. 

1551
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:09,400
So without off-topic when I was 
doing my developing like the 

1552
01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:12,100
protocol for the the strength 
testing, the dynamometer stuff, 

1553
01:15:12,300 --> 01:15:15,400
she'd be in the corner, come 
visit joining me in the lab on 

1554
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:17,300
the Ken's and I wouldn't be able
to get anybody in. 

1555
01:15:17,300 --> 01:15:20,400
So I'd be doing it all myself. 
Trying to reach to go, hit the 

1556
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:23,700
start button for this, like 
high-level isokinetic strength, 

1557
01:15:23,700 --> 01:15:26,000
testing. 
And then getting stuck and going

1558
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:27,500
help me. 
And she's like, now, you did 

1559
01:15:27,500 --> 01:15:30,600
this yourself. 
That's just being so, yeah, 

1560
01:15:30,600 --> 01:15:32,800
that's just that's her revenge. 
Even though I'm trying to go, 

1561
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:34,600
hey, we could get a case that. 
No forget it. 

1562
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:38,100
So, that's my big question, is 
we really know bodies are 

1563
01:15:38,100 --> 01:15:42,500
changing and they change not 
just You know, throughout the 

1564
01:15:42,500 --> 01:15:45,000
lifetime, but there's some 
significant periods where we see

1565
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:48,900
change. 
Be it by mechanical hormonal, or

1566
01:15:48,900 --> 01:15:50,900
even mental, right? 
And I think that's really cool 

1567
01:15:50,900 --> 01:15:53,400
that we're starting to be aware 
of this, because I feel like, 

1568
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:58,100
Biomechanics is very important, 
but only looking through one 

1569
01:15:58,100 --> 01:16:00,800
lens is problematic. 
It's like when we look at 

1570
01:16:00,800 --> 01:16:03,300
Imaging, one of the things that 
I've consistently heard from a 

1571
01:16:03,300 --> 01:16:05,700
lot of the people that I work 
with that can be like Radiology,

1572
01:16:05,700 --> 01:16:09,800
stuff is one view is no view. 
If you're only looking at one 

1573
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:11,800
view, you're going to miss a lot
of other stuff. 

1574
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:14,100
And it's not that we're trying 
to make this more complicated. 

1575
01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:16,100
It's we're just trying to 
understand this better. 

1576
01:16:16,200 --> 01:16:17,800
Unfortunately, life is pretty 
complicated. 

1577
01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:19,600
We can try to simplify this down
to go. 

1578
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:21,400
Hey, we've seen these patterns 
of Runners. 

1579
01:16:21,800 --> 01:16:23,800
You might fit into this, try 
this. 

1580
01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:26,100
See if it Source for you, but 
this is life. 

1581
01:16:26,200 --> 01:16:27,600
It's complicated. 
That's well. 

1582
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:30,700
Super well summarized and like a
crazy thing about pregnancy and 

1583
01:16:30,700 --> 01:16:32,900
postpartum to use is still so 
different for everyone talked 

1584
01:16:32,900 --> 01:16:36,000
about being like, the 
predictability of individual is 

1585
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:40,800
just not is not right there and 
it's dramatic. 

1586
01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:43,000
It's dramatic. 
Well, nine months feels forever 

1587
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:46,100
when you're doing it, but it's, 
it's still like crazy what your 

1588
01:16:46,100 --> 01:16:48,200
body goes through. 
So, it's a really, that's really

1589
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:49,300
okay. 
You changed? 

1590
01:16:49,300 --> 01:16:51,200
We're at my brain is spinning 
into. 

1591
01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:54,700
Yeah, next. 
So even though my wife, I listen

1592
01:16:54,700 --> 01:16:56,700
to these podcasts. 
I do want to say, I do 

1593
01:16:56,700 --> 01:16:59,200
appreciate it. 
I have no one. 

1594
01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:01,700
Not even experience it. 
So hopefully maybe she'll listen

1595
01:17:01,700 --> 01:17:03,500
to one of these to go. 
Oh, that was nice. 

1596
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:08,100
Jen Evan. 
Thank you so much for being on 

1597
01:17:08,100 --> 01:17:10,500
really appreciate your time 
because I know you guys have 

1598
01:17:10,500 --> 01:17:12,700
very busy schedule and spitting 
a Sunday night which for the 

1599
01:17:12,700 --> 01:17:15,500
listeners or viewers. 
We record these on Sunday night 

1600
01:17:15,500 --> 01:17:17,800
so that can be a challenge. 
So I was always appreciative. 

1601
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:20,800
I am definitely going to request
you to come back on but for 

1602
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:23,400
right now thank you so much for 
those listening. 

1603
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:25,300
There's many different ways you 
can listen to this. 

1604
01:17:25,300 --> 01:17:29,800
We have a podcast that drops 
every single Wednesday and 

1605
01:17:29,800 --> 01:17:31,900
whatever medium that you like 
best. 

1606
01:17:31,900 --> 01:17:35,000
Obviously, it comes off on 
Spotify, iTunes. 

1607
01:17:35,100 --> 01:17:37,000
Tunes. 
We also have this set up on 

1608
01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:39,600
YouTube and usually split it up 
into digestible chunks. 

1609
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:42,700
We have tons of stuff, coming 
out some phenomenal guests, 

1610
01:17:42,700 --> 01:17:46,400
including these individuals 
coming up very shortly and we 

1611
01:17:46,400 --> 01:17:48,700
were very, very excited. 
Continue to share with you. 

1612
01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:51,400
What's going on with your body? 
Try to help you translate that 

1613
01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:54,100
figuring out. 
Hey, running wise for wise, what

1614
01:17:54,100 --> 01:17:56,400
might be some things you can 
learn to make better decisions. 

1615
01:17:56,600 --> 01:17:58,200
Thank you for choosing