1 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,160 Hey everyone, and welcome to the Doctors of Running podcast where 2 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,920 we, a group of doctors of physical therapy, talk about the 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,680 art and the science of the things that we put on our feet. 4 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,240 Today we have Doctor Sloss and myself, Matt, Doctor Klein, 5 00:00:20,240 --> 00:00:23,920 whatever you want to call me. And we have a very special topic 6 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,320 that I think the whole team takes to heart. 7 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,920 But I'm curious to know what all of you think with this. 8 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:32,680 And we'll have a little question for you at the beginning. 9 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,000 But Doctor Salaz, how, how relevant do you think this this 10 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,720 topic is before we tell them what it is? 11 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,040 Although they probably just read the tagline, so they already 12 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,160 know what this is. Yeah, there's a good chance they 13 00:00:43,160 --> 00:00:45,360 probably already know what they're signing up for, but. 14 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,640 Surprise ruin. But I think it's pretty 15 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,480 important because I think it does have direct implications on 16 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:57,240 both standing and moving postures and walking, running, 17 00:00:57,720 --> 00:00:59,560 et cetera, which is what we talked about. 18 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:01,240 So I think it's definitely relevant. 19 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,519 So we are going to talk about heel bevels, which you may have 20 00:01:04,519 --> 00:01:07,080 guessed either from listening or probably reading the title of 21 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,880 this video podcast, whatever your whatever medium you're 22 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,440 going through. And we do talk about heel bevels 23 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,280 a lot, especially me because I tend to be very sensitive as a 24 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,240 pretty aggressive heel striker as to what's happening at the 25 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,480 back of the shoe. But we finally decided to go, 26 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:22,640 hey, let's sit down and talk about this and not just talk 27 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:27,600 about it for running shoes, but also walking and kind of explain 28 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,640 why we talk about it. The purpose of this thing, why 29 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,560 you should even bother having in this, and then talk about some 30 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:37,200 examples and how this can change and how the individual factors 31 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,560 both in the person and the shoe might influence this stuff. 32 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:44,440 So, David, would you mind starting us off on a definition 33 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:48,920 of what a heel bevel is? Yeah, I think a great way to 34 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:52,120 think about it is thinking about what a bevel is, First off. 35 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,960 And so essentially like what a bevel is, is a rounding of an 36 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,280 edge. And so whether you're using some 37 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,000 kind of a tool or like you're curbing something or whatever it 38 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,360 is, in this case, it's a shoe and it's the heel. 39 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,120 And so it's, it's the rounding of the platform at the heel. 40 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,080 And one of the main reasons why they put that there is to kind 41 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:12,720 of mimic our human anatomy and kind of optimize movement 42 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,600 through the rear foot. And should I go into that right 43 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:17,720 now? Yeah, go for it, definitely. 44 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,880 But yeah, basically when we're walking and going through the 45 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,360 gate cycle, most people, like we always say that this word 46 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,280 pronation kind of gets demonized, but it's kind of a 47 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,360 natural part of shock absorption and how we walk. 48 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,080 And most people when they extend their leg out in front of them, 49 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:34,360 they're going to land on their heel. 50 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,720 And usually it's going to be slightly off to the side on the 51 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,280 outside side of it, and they'll kind of roll downwards and 52 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,440 they'll roll inwards. And that's that pronation moment 53 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,200 for shock absorption. Eventually as they get into 54 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,200 their forefoot, they that midfoot will tighten up, they'll 55 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,200 re supinate and they'll kind of create a stiff lever arm to push 56 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,280 off of through their great toe and or if they have a Morton's 57 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,560 toe, the second toe. But in some cases, but 58 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,280 nonetheless, that is essentially the process. 59 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,840 And so when they design A heel bevel or put it into a shoe, the 60 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,120 idea is to essentially mimic that movement and help ease that 61 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:13,520 pathway and in some ways kind of recreate the rounding that you 62 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:15,960 might see in the heel rocker of your calcaneus. 63 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:17,800 So. At least they're supposed to 64 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,240 design it like that. That's a, that's a yeah, yeah, 65 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:21,680 yeah. The other thing. 66 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,680 So Doctor Sloss is talking about how there is multiple planes of 67 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,440 motions that are involved with how you design A heel bubble and 68 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:29,720 why it is. So. 69 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,520 He mentioned that most people, and we get this question all the 70 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,840 time, you know, hey, I see I'm landing on the outside of the 71 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,480 heel and there's some wear on the post, your lateral side. 72 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,600 That's totally normal. People typically tend to land on 73 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,160 the lateral post, your lateral side of the heel. 74 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,800 They roll inwards and typically there's a movement pathway 75 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,520 that's going generally toward the first or second toe 76 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,600 depending on how things go with some variation there. 77 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,800 So that's adding a little bit of, as I keep hitting my 78 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:57,800 computer and people could see me bouncing. 79 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,880 That's a little bit of like diagonal and frontal plane side 80 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:02,800 to side stuff. But when you get in the pure 81 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,400 sagittal plane front to back, the reason we generally suggest 82 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,360 that the heel be beveled. Most companies do this is 83 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:13,720 because your heel bone is also rounded, and the purpose of that 84 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,519 rounding is actually to make gait more efficient when you're 85 00:04:16,519 --> 00:04:19,440 walking. If you landed on a jagged heel, 86 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,839 it would pivot your foot forward really quickly. 87 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,880 And if you have really fast motions like that, that's more 88 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,840 force, that's more energy to control your foot slapping down 89 00:04:27,840 --> 00:04:30,800 on the ground when you hit the when you make initial contact. 90 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,280 OK, that puts a lot of pressure through some of the muscles on 91 00:04:33,280 --> 00:04:35,960 the front of your leg, like your anterior tibialis, some of your 92 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,480 extensor muscles. Very common for people with 93 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:39,920 shoes that don't have a great bevel. 94 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,440 When they start running, some people might notice some shin 95 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,880 splin type pain. Yeah, the muscles are working 96 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,360 really hard because they're a very strong pull on eccentric 97 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,040 force to control that motion down. 98 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:53,760 Now that takes a lot of energy, OK. 99 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,120 If you round the heel, which your heel bone naturally does, 100 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,360 it actually makes your gait more efficient and naturally rolls 101 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,240 you for, which saves energy and reduces the amount of force you 102 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,360 need to control that motion downwards and reduces stress 103 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,040 there as well. This is very effective in 104 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,320 walking and heel strikers for runners. 105 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,240 The other reason that this is really, really, really important 106 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:19,040 is because when you start getting a shoe higher and higher 107 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,840 on the off the ground, So I would say minimal shoes don't 108 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:23,960 really need a bevel because they're so close and there's 109 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,080 typical rounding anyway. When you get these maximal 110 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,640 shoes, you want to still maintain this thing called the 111 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,480 heel rocker. So that natural curve actually 112 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,520 has that efficient that the efficiency it gives you as a 113 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,160 name called the heel rocker because it helps Rock You 114 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:43,000 forwards. Now, if you take that away, it 115 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:48,040 often times increases the energy cost of gates from that place. 116 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,040 It's the same thing. There's a heel, midfoot and four 117 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:52,760 foot rocker. Each one of these things make 118 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:54,880 you more efficient and there are parts of your anatomy that do 119 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:56,400 that. You take them away. 120 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,120 It increases the energy cost of locomotion and gate. 121 00:06:00,280 --> 00:06:02,880 So it's not just a hey, this is a more comfortable thing. 122 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,720 It's also something that makes you more efficient naturally. 123 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,360 Goodness that it better myself. Yeah, well, we team effort on 124 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,600 this do well. So we kind of talked about what 125 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,440 it is, what the purpose is, right? 126 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,880 It's to help make gait both more efficient as well as more 127 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:19,040 comfortable. Because you might have 128 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,760 experienced like a dress shoe is a great example because they 129 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,240 typically don't have a good bevel and you'll notice they're 130 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,360 like really stiff when you land on the heel, it's kind of slappy 131 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,480 doesn't feel very good. It just helps smooth that out. 132 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,600 We will talk about there are some cases you in certain unique 133 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,560 populations you may not want that, but for the majority of 134 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,640 people it really is something that works with the anatomy. 135 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,120 So are there any other reasons you can think of that we that we 136 00:06:43,280 --> 00:06:46,440 might really be helpful is to have a heel bevel in the shoe? 137 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:47,880 Yeah. I mean, we've talked about it 138 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:52,160 with some special considerations before with those that either 139 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,640 have that, that have some kind of a need for a rocker design. 140 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,720 Because usually if they're implementing a heel bevel, more 141 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,320 often than not, there's usually some kind of a four foot rocker 142 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,240 implemented in the shoe as well to essentially give you a rocker 143 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,440 profile. That would kind of go a little 144 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:08,680 bit off the topic of the conversation. 145 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,680 But like special considerations for people that may have, you 146 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,440 know, like stiff ankles and they can't move through the entire 147 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:16,960 range and maybe they need a little bit of help getting over 148 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,680 it or stiff great toes, etcetera, etcetera. 149 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:24,240 Those types of more orthopedic in nature type things or if they 150 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,040 have some kind of a neurologic issue where they just literally 151 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:31,320 can't move through a certain in in a certain pathway and maybe 152 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,360 that helps them facilitate some of the gait in the movement and 153 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:38,480 getting that literal rocker profile going on their own body. 154 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:40,920 That's great. I'm also trying to think we kind 155 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,080 of touched on a lot of stuff and the accelerated paths were kind 156 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,120 of my outline was, but that's OK David hit some really good 157 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,800 points there. The group that I often think 158 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,040 about when I'm not thinking about just comfort level of a 159 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,000 shoe, especially personally, I'm also thinking of those people 160 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,400 that maybe have some pathology or some kind of irritation where 161 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:01,480 a bevel tends to reduce that load. 162 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,680 So I mentioned shin splints is like the is like calling is like 163 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:06,360 the low back pain of the lower extremity. 164 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:08,080 It's a really general catch all term. 165 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,080 It doesn't tell you kind of what tissues actually irritated what. 166 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,120 Especially for new runners or runners that have sensitivity in 167 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,840 the anterior shin, this really reduces load in that area, can 168 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,360 make it much easier to get forward rather than having that 169 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,440 really slapping kind of sensation. 170 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,200 It's also really important for gait in terms of efficiency. 171 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,680 So if you're a longer distance runner, you're a longer distance 172 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,680 athlete. This is really important because 173 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,080 typically as you slow down, as you, as the distance of the 174 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,200 event increases, it is very natural to end up more on your 175 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,039 heel. It's more economical. 176 00:08:40,039 --> 00:08:42,039 I, this is not a heel versus forefoot debate. 177 00:08:42,039 --> 00:08:45,200 There's research on this, that you go shorter, faster. 178 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,440 People tend to be more on the front of their foot in terms of 179 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,080 initial contact. As you go longer, people 180 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:51,640 typically tend to land more on the heel. 181 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,880 So it's also, you know, just making the shoe more efficient 182 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,920 for longer periods. But the comfort is probably one 183 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,280 of the biggest things for me personally and reducing that 184 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,240 load on some of those muscles in the front. 185 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,160 And so shin, you know, shin splint, tight pain is super 186 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:06,960 common, super common in newer runners. 187 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,360 So when people ask us about this, one of the biggest things 188 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,120 I suggest is make sure if you're getting a new shoe, doesn't have 189 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,680 to be the most expensive thing, but look for that bevel. 190 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,040 The other thing that the bevels can actually do that David 191 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,840 actually mentioned quite a while ago already was talking about 192 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,240 how it can influence some of the frontal planar side to side 193 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:27,680 stuff. So if you have a good 194 00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:32,680 posterolateral bevel, it can really change how quickly you 195 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,360 either pronate or don't. Because if you don't have one 196 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,000 and you have a lot of what's called a lateral flare. 197 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,920 And for those looking, I've got. What's a good example? 198 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,400 Do we have a good example of? This have a lateral flare. 199 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,920 Yeah, I'm going to bring up the two. 200 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:50,600 Trainer has some, yeah. I didn't. 201 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:52,600 I mean, I think that was not that bad. 202 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,640 But you know what I want to bring up Mount to Coast who I've 203 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,040 been enjoying the the P1, which is their stability shoe. 204 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,800 You can see the sole kind of comes for those of you watching 205 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,440 on this, the sole kind of pops out the side. 206 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,360 And so when you have that happen, when you land on that 207 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,320 posterolateral side, it's going to pivot you inwards more, 208 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:12,920 right? Increases the lever arm. 209 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,200 There's a greater moment that kind of drives you in there. 210 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,400 So you're going to get pushed inwards faster with more force 211 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:20,400 to get through this, this greater motion. 212 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:24,320 So that might accelerate how much you go in that direction. 213 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,360 For somebody that actually needs to learn to pronate, that 214 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,760 actually might be great. For the rest of us, like myself, 215 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,400 we're really sensitive that that might not be very good. 216 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,680 And their shoes that are supposed to be stability shoes 217 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,000 that because they have that all of a sudden because there's that 218 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,240 excessive lateral flare and not enough that not post your 219 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:44,040 lateral bevel can be a little challenging. 220 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,560 We were talking, one of the things that actually spurred 221 00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:50,280 this conversation on was talking about the hocus sky flow where 222 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,360 it's supposed to have this nice bevel and they actually have a 223 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:57,480 pretty solid lateral flare on this. 224 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,000 And even though there is like, I don't know, David, does this 225 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:01,920 look like a posterolateral flare? 226 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,120 I cannot tell. Like I've been looking at this 227 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:05,200 instead I'm. Like is it? 228 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:07,640 What is it? Because it it the shoe is 229 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:09,800 supposed to have a good bevel, but it ends up like I kind of 230 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,320 land weirdly on it and it pitches me in inward. 231 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:14,320 Yeah. It almost kind of has like a 232 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,400 little bit of a wedge like feel to it, right where there's like 233 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,960 almost like a slight disposition to kind of shift you. 234 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,280 Yeah. And I think that is an 235 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:25,720 interesting shoe to bring up specifically because I actually 236 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:30,760 really like the shoe. But I do agree the the bevel is 237 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:35,680 much like more gradual and it's much earlier and you're 238 00:11:35,680 --> 00:11:39,560 definitely going to have a little bit more of an impact on 239 00:11:39,560 --> 00:11:43,240 that posterior lateral heel. It's not quite as rounded as 240 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:44,760 some of the other models they've made. 241 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,160 So if you land pretty aggressively there, you're 242 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,080 really going to feel it and you're going to kind of have 243 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:51,920 that. I, I describe it like a wedge. 244 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:56,320 Like if you kind of put inside of your shoe a little angle of 245 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,240 foam and it's just like a little triangle there and you just 246 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,680 wedge it onto the outside of where you're stepping in. 247 00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:04,320 You're going to feel your foot kind of roll inwards and it's 248 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,440 going to kind of pitch you that way, but not in a fluid way, if 249 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,440 that makes sense. Because we were saying with the 250 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,720 posterior lateral bevel, that's kind of the idea of it, but it 251 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,240 does it in a way that's natural with your bio mechanics in this 252 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,040 situation. You're doing that because you're 253 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,560 hitting something and then coming off of it. 254 00:12:21,560 --> 00:12:24,120 So it's a very jarring type of way of getting there. 255 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,120 We should probably clarify that again, a lot of people when they 256 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,920 look at a bevel, they're just looking at how curved the back 257 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,840 is just in one plane. But we're also talking about 258 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,400 making sure you're thinking about like it as a 3D motion, 259 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,920 because the heel isn't just this. 260 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,680 It doesn't just have this rigid like like curve at the back. 261 00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:43,280 It's like the whole thing is rounded. 262 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,200 So if you want to do a heel bevel really well, yes you 263 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,920 should have an upward curve, but you should also have some 264 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,160 rounding around the side. To be honest the best heel 265 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,760 bubble I think I've ever seen has come from Alter recently 266 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,400 where they like rounded the entire heel rather than just the 267 00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,440 back. A couple of shoes, yeah. 268 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,440 Yeah, they did a couple, a couple options on that. 269 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,160 But David brings up a really good point is that what we 270 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,840 haven't addressed so far is yes, OK, how, how curved is it, 271 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:10,400 right? Is it, is there a rounding 272 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,280 especially on that posterior lateral side? 273 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:14,800 But probably the other thing that we have to talk about is 274 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,000 how, what is the like, what would you call this? 275 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,560 The rate of the bevel? Is it gradual or aggressive? 276 00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:23,640 Because you're going to have a bevel, but if it's really steep, 277 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,040 it's going to like push you forward really quick. 278 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,280 And it may still feel like there's not that versus, you 279 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,720 know, we, we have a love hate relationship with the new 280 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:36,440 balances of Halos, balos. I said Balos, I want to go to 281 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,120 David. I have no idea though. 282 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,520 But. So, David, why, Why don't you 283 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,040 like this shoe again? Because your foot got hurt in 284 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,440 it. So you do like it. 285 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,000 I love. How like I was like, oh, I'm not 286 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,520 going to throw this shoe under the bus and like everyone goes 287 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:51,760 and comments like it's fine David, it's the Bayless. 288 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,600 So how did everyone know I'm? Like. 289 00:13:56,560 --> 00:13:59,440 But yeah, so it's a pretty aggressive one there. 290 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,040 It's it's it's a big rocker on the heel. 291 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,160 It extends very far up as far as the rarefoot's concerned. 292 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,720 And it essentially it's so rounded that you're kind of 293 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,320 almost always pitched forward because of how well it's 294 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:13,640 rounded. Like it's actually, it's a 295 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,720 pretty good one if you respond well to that type of geometry. 296 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,600 And not to say that I responded bad to it per SE. 297 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,520 I think my foot didn't agree with it for other reasons. 298 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,880 Very, very soft compliant foam. The rubber isn't really rubber. 299 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,440 It's kind of like a rubberized Eva that has color on it. 300 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:36,000 So it's really soft. There is not that much like 301 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,520 stability to the midfoot. So I felt like my intrinsic foot 302 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,840 muscles, like how we're talking about the transitions of the 303 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,600 gait cycle, like we're kind of skipping that initial contact to 304 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,280 some degree like it's happening, but it's very, very quick. 305 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,680 And then now everything in my midfoot is having to basically 306 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,560 create that stable moment and then lever off and push off. 307 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:58,440 And that stiffness of being able to just like be compliant and 308 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,440 stiffen up at that quick of a rate over and over and over 309 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,800 again. As fun as the shoe felt, it 310 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,720 actually was a really fun ride. I enjoyed it, but I couldn't, I 311 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,720 just couldn't run in it like it. It would just hurt. 312 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,280 It would hurt my foot. Yeah, that's out there where you 313 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,480 got you got it out of me. Yeah, that's OK. 314 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,440 So I, I, so this is where we talk about individuality is the 315 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,720 size of the bevel can make some major, major impacts in your 316 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:23,920 gait. I forget what company what did 317 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,880 it, but they did some kind of unpublished research that 318 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:30,080 suggested that I think it might have been Brooks, either Brooks 319 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,880 or Skechers that suggested that the larger the bevel, it 320 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,320 actually moved your initial contact point a little bit 321 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,840 farther forward. So for me, I've always done 322 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,800 really, really well with large bevels because I tend to land 323 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,760 really far back and getting me a little farther forward to me 324 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,240 feels good. Also, I slammed the back of the 325 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:47,560 heel. So any help I can get 326 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,160 transitioning forward is really, really good. 327 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,400 So, but for a lot of people, this might be too aggressive 328 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:55,200 because it might change where they're landing. 329 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,680 And if that is something they're sensitive to, that might be a 330 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,880 problem. So for this, this design works 331 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:02,920 really, really well for me. I like large bevels like this 332 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:07,160 that go really far forward, whereas small ones don't work as 333 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:08,680 well. Do you have an example of a 334 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:13,440 really small one? Yeah, I mean the the ghost Max. 335 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,000 Oh yeah, yeah, that's a great example. 336 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:17,920 Especially for how big the shoe is. 337 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,120 So we were talking about earlier, like with how much foam 338 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,960 is under some of these shoes, it's that much more important to 339 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,560 have a rounding because that lever arm is not longer. 340 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:30,040 And so if you don't have some way of easing that transition 341 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,240 off of that initial contact and coming down, we're talking about 342 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,240 all that load that goes through tibialis anterior that just went 343 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,360 up like that just skyrocketed like crazy. 344 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,920 And so it doesn't feel good. It feels very sloppy, those 345 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,240 types of things. If if the shoe is like that, and 346 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,800 I'm not going to say that's for everyone in the Ghost Max, but 347 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:52,440 for someone like Klein ghost Max 2 or ghost Max 2 ghost Max 2 348 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,000 correction, yes. But if you look at it, it 349 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,960 doesn't really take much looking at it to realize that's pretty 350 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:03,000 flat for the shoe and it's very minimally rounded. 351 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,880 It exists. It's just really small and it's 352 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,920 and there's just not much. It's almost like they just just 353 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,520 rounded the very back off but didn't actually create a true 354 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:16,040 like rounding through the heel. And so that's one where it's a 355 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,040 little bit more of a Shank almost where you're going to 356 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:19,880 like for standing. It's actually pretty comfortable 357 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,200 I think. Standing and walking, actually. 358 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:23,839 That shoe is pretty solid actually. 359 00:17:23,839 --> 00:17:26,960 Yeah, But for running, if you're putting that much force into the 360 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,120 ground and if you're someone like Klein where you're just a 361 00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:31,840 little bit further back, you're now increasing the load on that 362 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,800 chin and your quads and like, think like it's going up a lot 363 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,480 and it's probably not the most enjoyable. 364 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,840 And I don't think he had a very great time in that shoe. 365 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,160 Yeah, someone like me, I probably could get away with it, 366 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,040 but. If you land farther forward and 367 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:49,080 you totally be like you don't even hit the heel, this is going 368 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,360 to be a non issue for you. But for like for heel strikers, 369 00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:56,120 which is over 70% of the running population, like you'll notice 370 00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:58,440 that. But I have to give the Ghost Max 371 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:02,840 to some credit because I feel like that shoe was designed more 372 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,320 and this might offend some people more for a variety of 373 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,280 like walkers, right? So the Dyad is kind of where 374 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,400 this got inspired by where the Dyad and other kind of pure 375 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,440 walking shoes typically don't like, especially when we're 376 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,200 talking about like orthopedic shoes, people are generally 377 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,160 needing. They may not have the most 378 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:20,800 smoothest gait. They might need a little bit 379 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:24,040 more stiffness because we might have some issues either rocking 380 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:28,040 backwards or some a variety of areas for a walking for people 381 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:32,240 with some balance issues, a less rocker shoe actually might be a 382 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,800 better option because 1 of the complaints people will have with 383 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,360 a large posterior bevel is if you lean back at all, it just 384 00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:40,600 rolls backwards. So anybody again, if you're 385 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,240 talking about neurologic population, talking about maybe 386 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,720 the individual that doesn't have some great like balance 387 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,760 reactions, a not large bevel might be a better option. 388 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,640 Also, if you're not worried about compressing things as 389 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,520 much, like you're not running, you know, not a runner, Walker, 390 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,160 or a smaller bevel might be fine. 391 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,440 Because you're compressing, you don't go through as big of an 392 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,640 arc of motion as you do with running. 393 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,440 For walking too, have you tried walking in the bellows? 394 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:09,560 That wasn't the most. Fun. 395 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,800 It's kind of awkward and it's like, you know, it's because 396 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:14,680 this shoe is really designed for running. 397 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,040 Large bevelers are going to do better with faster transitions 398 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,000 and greater forces. So with walking, you may not 399 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,440 need as big of a bevel and a shoe that I really thought about 400 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,760 that I've really enjoyed recently the on cloud runner 2. 401 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,400 For those who can see it has a really well positioned poster 402 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,360 lateral bevel and the foam is nice. 403 00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:35,280 It's on the firmer side, but it does compress more with running. 404 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,120 And I've loved this shoe for both walking and running. 405 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,440 It's got a solid well placed poster lateral bubble, but it's 406 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,760 not the most massive thing on the planet. 407 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,200 Yet it still works really, really well for both walking and 408 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,600 running. Is it a little firm for running? 409 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,800 Yeah, it is. But I typically like a little 410 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,960 firmer ride. And the the poster lateral 411 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,960 bubble is placed well enough that it doesn't bother me, but 412 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,960 it's also not big enough that it it's feel it doesn't feel 413 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,000 awkward while walking. So there is a balance, right? 414 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,560 And we're not saying that every shoe needs to have this giant, 415 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,840 massive bevel, that the whole shoe needs to be this. 416 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,520 Crazy rocker, although some people might need that. 417 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,080 We're just saying there is an optimal place to put this thing 418 00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:19,000 and it should at least have at least a small to moderate 1. 419 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,160 And if you're getting into running, you're going to want to 420 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,720 have at least a moderate to like a moderate sized 1 because of 421 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,320 the forces that go with it. That's just how things go, 422 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,760 right? In relation to the 423 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,800 posterolateral bubble, although I personally like this and I 424 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,960 think David, hopefully I'm not speaking for you that you do as 425 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,840 well. You do have to be a little 426 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,200 careful with the small population of people that have 427 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,520 any kind of lateral ankle stability issues, like people 428 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:48,240 that tend to roll their ankles a lot. 429 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,800 A strong posterolateral bevel you might not like and a company 430 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,320 that does that very well, it creates a massive posterolateral 431 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,040 bevel is Adidas. So I'm holding the Adidas Audios 432 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,840 Pro 3 up. The two was incredibly 433 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,000 aggressive and I would. Say a little too much, I think 434 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,680 that was. I mean, that was almost like a 435 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,760 had like a stability shoe heel. The boss is another great 436 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,080 example where there's just a, the bevel is done really well 437 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,640 with the majority of bevel is on the lateral side. 438 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,280 And what that does when you have a very large poster level bevel 439 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,920 that's really pushed like really curved on the outside and not so 440 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,720 much on the inside is it actually creates almost like a 441 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,200 wedge slash post in the heel. So people like myself that 442 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,560 pronate really aggressively do great, right? 443 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:30,960 It makes the shoe feel more stable. 444 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,960 There's some resistance to some medial emotions, inward motion. 445 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,640 But people that are like unstable laterally or go too far 446 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,720 laterally, they're going to hate it because they're like, oh, it 447 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,800 feels unstable. Feels my like my ankles going 448 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,000 off the platform. So again, while we talk about 449 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:49,080 this, not to use the old PT thing, it does depend. 450 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,040 Although as I'm trying to, I just started teaching at a 451 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,160 university, George Fox, I'm trying not to torture the 452 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,240 students with it depends. I'm trying to say context of the 453 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,840 habitual is appropriate, that there are a variety of needs and 454 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,160 what those needs look like may vary. 455 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,800 I agree completely. So I usually get really annoyed 456 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,880 when there's a medial bevel like I forget what. 457 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,160 What's the example of this? Every once in a while you see 458 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,200 one. Yeah, who else did someone 459 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:16,960 recently? And I'm like, why would you do 460 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,520 that? Like that People don't land on 461 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,400 the like, do they? Am I missing this? 462 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,760 Can you Fact Check me Do? Are there people that land on 463 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,920 the medial side of their foot? I mean, if they supinate really 464 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:31,280 hard, I mean, maybe it'd it'd still be, I think more of a 465 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,400 midfoot, forefoot type of a pattern anyways. 466 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,480 Yeah, I don't, but I don't. I've never seen and like. 467 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,280 Nothing like the. Yeah, the like land medial and 468 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,680 like roll outward like or land on the I'm sorry, I keep using. 469 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:44,560 I know people don't always know what medial means. 470 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,040 The inside is the inside, lateral is the outside. 471 00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:49,840 So like landing on the inside and rolling out like I I've 472 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:51,840 never. Seen it would look weird that'd 473 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,240 be I've seen Oh and land. Yeah. 474 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:56,960 Oh and I meant the comment about like. 475 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:58,320 I thought that one might have been a little too much. 476 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,800 I was talking with the Pro 2, not Pro 3 for me. 477 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:05,600 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Audios Pro 2. 478 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:07,840 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's I, I agree. 479 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:08,960 Yes, that one was pretty aggressive. 480 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,560 I liked it. But I think the majority of the 481 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,480 population was like, no, that was too much. 482 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,840 I will say to you like one thing consideration when looking at 483 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,560 the whole shoe is if you're going to do a design like that, 484 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,640 you have to have good 4 foot stability too. 485 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,800 Yes, because if that transitions really fast, 11 shoe that I 486 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,960 think does that beautifully is the Takumi 79. 487 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,800 Yes. Where you have a very fast quick 488 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,760 transitioning heel and mid foot. But then that 4 foot, it's just 489 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,760 solid and it, whether you're pronating hard or supinating, 490 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,320 whatever, like that thing is just locked in and it's grippy 491 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,600 and it's like a solid platform to push off of. 492 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,080 So like looking at considerations of the goals of 493 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:50,760 the shoe can definitely change your indications of how you want 494 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,400 to implement the bevel. And I just want to show 1 shoe 495 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,040 really quick, which is kind of the radical opposite of what 496 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,320 we're talking about. But the Saucony Convara? 497 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,240 What? What number are we on now, 15? 498 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:04,640 15, yeah. Yeah. 499 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,320 So this is a shoe a little bit lower to the ground, a little 500 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,720 bit more of a flexible design, and it's a much flatter profile, 501 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,000 right? They have a bevel, it's not 502 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:14,960 huge, so they don't really need a big one. 503 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,080 The second you land, that thing flexes and does its own thing. 504 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,640 So it's just another example of, like you were saying, like shoes 505 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,640 that have flatter bevels and like it can be for a couple 506 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,600 different reasons, whether it's sometimes going fast and 507 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,440 something a little bit lower to the ground that might actually 508 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,880 feel nicer as well. The other consideration I almost 509 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,120 forgot to mention when designing a bevel or looking at 1 is how 510 00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:39,640 much the foam compresses. So the Super blast is a really 511 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,360 great example. This where the bevel here, it's 512 00:24:42,360 --> 00:24:45,320 a large bevel but it's very centered. 513 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:46,680 So we should probably have talked about South 514 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,160 posterolateral means the bevel is shifted off to the side. 515 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,400 When we talk about center demeans, the things vary. 516 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,720 Like even there's no curve on the outside, it's mostly rounded 517 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,080 up toward the back. Now if you have a really soft 518 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,560 foam, you may not need a posterolateral bubble because 519 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,560 the foam might just compress that way anyway. 520 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,920 And if you took put too much of an aggressive one, you'll roll 521 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,880 out too far. A lot of the Super shoes do 522 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,760 this, not all of them, but a lot of them do this because the 523 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,840 companies know, hey, when you land on that posterolateral 524 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,320 aspect, that foam is going to compress so much that if we add 525 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,040 too much of A posterolateral bevel that you're just going to 526 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,240 go flying that direction, unless you're me and just loves that in 527 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:24,440 general. Right. 528 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,800 So the Soccone Endorphin Pro 4 is a great example of this where 529 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,400 they've got a large poster posterior bevel, but it's fairly 530 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,520 centered because that lateral midsole material actually 531 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,760 compresses a little bit more than the medial side. 532 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,880 So they know, yeah, you're going to hit, if you land on your 533 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,360 heel, that's going to compress and create that posterior 534 00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:44,840 lateral bevel for you and roll you forwards. 535 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,520 That's assuming of course, the person's like running, like 536 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,040 compressing the foam at the right. 537 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,400 That's a different conversation we can talk about. 538 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,400 But yeah, that's where like the Super blast, I looked at it 539 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,040 like, oh, this is not going to work for me, but it does because 540 00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:00,440 it it just compresses so well in the lateral side because the 541 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,000 foam is relatively soft. Yeah, totally. 542 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:05,720 And you see that a lot with the Super shoes too. 543 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,680 Yeah, just generally speaking, yeah. 544 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:13,000 And I think that's why the the Adidas Eddy 0 Audios Pro 2 was 545 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,280 just so unstable for people because it not only had that 546 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,920 softer foam, but it had a huge poster lateral bubble too. 547 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,680 So people were like were like rolling off the side. 548 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:29,000 You know, the crazier 1 was the Adidas, the Primex series where 549 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,680 they would have that except with 50mm of heel of heel out of 550 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,880 midsole material, plus that same massive bevel. 551 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,080 And we got all these stories like people like literally 552 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,640 breaking their ankles because they'd roll their foot in that 553 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,560 the Primax strung 2 was slightly better, but it's still because 554 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,600 it's firmer. But that you have to be careful 555 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,160 with those designing 50mm stack height shoes is a totally 556 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:58,400 different different crazy story. So yeah, Primax one man, that 557 00:26:58,400 --> 00:26:59,400 was why. Nuts. 558 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaking of wild, if we're going to talk about crazy heel bevels, 559 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,040 I got to bring up the Mizuno wave. 560 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:09,240 For there we go. Pro series like do we call this 561 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,400 a bevel? So for people that are listening 562 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,200 to this, this shoe is nuts. First of all, the first version 563 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:15,680 was crazy. I think they made this more 564 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,960 aggressive in the second one where like they cheat. 565 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,640 Cheat is not the right word. They they figured out how to get 566 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,760 around things by adding more, like increasing the height of 567 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:29,560 the heel. Like they basically this is a 568 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,720 really high stack height shoe. But then they cut the heel in a 569 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,200 way and bevel it so that it's technically still. 570 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:37,680 Yeah. When you measure it per the 571 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,840 world standards, it's still under the limit. 572 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:41,920 How would you describe this heel? 573 00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:44,720 Oh yeah, I mean, well, it's an aggressively beveled heel, 574 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,720 right? Like maybe the most aggressive. 575 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,040 It's almost like you took a slab of foam and let's just, let's 576 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,400 just simplify this. We'll make it a rectangle so 577 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,200 it's not even on a shoe. And then you go and you look at 578 00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:00,560 the bottom right corner of that foam and you draw a triangle and 579 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,920 you just go up about half the height of that foam and then do 580 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,920 a long diagonal gotten that way. That's essentially what they 581 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:09,640 did. It's like there's a slab of foam 582 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,800 just missing and it's it's a pretty dramatic heel bevel, but 583 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,520 it works really well for this shoe. 584 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,040 The way they have that plate designed, it actually flows 585 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,720 pretty well, but it definitely keeps you very forward, keeps 586 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,560 you very much on your midfoot and through your forefoot. 587 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,520 It's a very lively feeling shoe and some people that might feel 588 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,200 a little too aggressive, but some people are going to really 589 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,680 love it and it's a it's a fun Jew. 590 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,920 I like the Rebellion Pro 2. Me too. 591 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,600 I've noticed that for me, like if I'm like really back for my 592 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,200 heel, it feels pretty clunky, like you're trying to get over 593 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,040 this. There's a pivot point where it 594 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:45,720 finally ends. You kind of have to get over. 595 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,640 The sweet spot is either landing right on the pivot point or 596 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,120 there's a name for this that I'm totally forgetting that we 597 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:53,240 should know. It's like. 598 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,040 It was Mizuno who was doing the the heel bevel stuff where they 599 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,720 were playing with the angles. Yes, but what's the? 600 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,440 Is it the apex? Is that the term I'm looking 601 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:03,880 for? I think. 602 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,320 Where of like where the thing ends? 603 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:07,280 Yeah. Is that the right term? 604 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,520 Or the point at which it like rounds where the angle? 605 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,480 Yeah, the apex is super far forward. 606 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,160 But if you land on that and somebody in the comments correct 607 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,920 us please, if that's wrong, if you land on this part, it 608 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:20,600 actually trampolines you forward. 609 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,280 Or if you're like Andrew, who also really loves this shoe, if 610 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,800 you land for that 4 foot midfoot, it's it's perfect. 611 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,520 So this is a great example, like a more extreme example of what 612 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,760 happened with the Bailos where it will it if you respond, it 613 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:34,840 will push you forward to make you land farther forward. 614 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,240 If you're more of an extreme heel striker, this might not 615 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:40,160 work. It might work. 616 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:41,240 I don't know. That's a great. 617 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,880 It's so dramatic that you'd have to just try it at that point. 618 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,920 Yeah, yeah. So if you had a perfect heel on 619 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,720 a shoe, what would that look like for you? 620 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,040 How would you design that? There's one more element that we 621 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,480 need to talk about that I I almost forgot about, but then 622 00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:01,960 we'll get you after this, but. OK, yeah, I so I'm, I think in a 623 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,680 daily training shoe, I don't need that much. 624 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,560 So as long as there's a rounding through the heel, I do like a 625 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,160 little bit of a lateral bias, doesn't have to be quite as 626 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,280 aggressive as some of the other shoes we're talking about. 627 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,640 If it's a little bit more of a moderate stack height like the 628 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,920 Takumi Sen, I really like that type of a profile for running 629 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:21,920 fast. I think that's a very fun type 630 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,960 of geometry. But for daily training, I don't 631 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,800 need it quite as aggressively. As long as it's rounded a little 632 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,840 bit and it has a little bit of of compression like how you 633 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:35,040 alluded to with the Super Blast Two, that is something that can 634 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:36,800 agree with me. And so that's why I think the 635 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,600 sky Flow, even though it has that slight little flare to it, 636 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,480 it didn't really bother me that much. 637 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,800 And I actually kind of liked the general stiffness of the rest of 638 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,480 the platform and the soul flaring. 639 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,800 And I just had a nice pleasant ride on it. 640 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,680 But I don't land quite as far back into the side as you do. 641 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,960 And so like if I was there like that could totally feel jarring. 642 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,120 So for me, I don't need it to be too, too aggressive. 643 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,120 You know, I just needed to have a little bit of rounding and AII 644 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,680 do like a little bit of a directional bias, a shoe that 645 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,320 does that pretty well, actually. Wait, when is this going to air? 646 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,120 In like a week or two. What's the date today? 647 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:13,760 It is. The 8th. 648 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,280 OK, never mind, I can't talk about it. 649 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:17,000 Wait. Yeah. 650 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,120 For those who don't know, if we, we usually we record this and 651 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,480 then we release, it usually releases two weeks later. 652 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,080 So sometimes we get to be a little careful with the shoes 653 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,080 that we're talking about because they're embargoes. 654 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,080 And we try to be really respectful of companies because 655 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,040 we know that it's a their business and they're trying to 656 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:34,840 also make a living. So we're trying not to judge. 657 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,040 Yeah, it's a company that has an NMB in it, but they did a good 658 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:43,840 job with a slight deviation to the posterior lateral side on a 659 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:48,000 shoe. I will not say the shoe and 660 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,680 you'll hear all about it when the time comes, which isn't that 661 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,080 far in the future. There was they might release, we 662 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:54,960 might have the clearance. Why can't we? 663 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:57,480 All right, look, we'll play it safe. 664 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,720 We'll play it safe, but like it it. 665 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,200 We might be good. I just don't want. 666 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,520 To it's a classic shoe that's been out there for like 14 667 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,120 years. Like, come on, right? 668 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,920 Is that correct? Something like that, I think so, 669 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,560 yeah, I think, yeah, I think it's #14 I think. 670 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:13,840 I think OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it is. 671 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,080 Yeah. Anyways, that shoe has a good 672 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,720 job of having a gradual heel bevel, but having a slight 673 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,600 lateral bias. But it's not that aggressive, 674 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,840 you know, and it's just enough to kind of help facilitate that 675 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:27,640 motion without getting in the way of anything else. 676 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,480 Yep. So I would I would say, and you 677 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,960 kind of answered this like I had it just for me as someone who 678 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,400 really lands very strong at that poster lateral side. 679 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,880 If the foam isn't going to compress well enough for me to 680 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,160 actually transition to the shoe without feeling like I'm getting 681 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,400 pitched inwards. I just like that even just 682 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,760 slight a slight posterolateral bevel is good. 683 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,280 But I I do appreciate at least a moderate bevel in all shoes as a 684 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,080 heel striker as someone, because mechanics may not be that 685 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,680 different walking versus running, having that sit that 686 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:58,800 well, That's not true. My running mechanics are very 687 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,400 different. Let me switch that. 688 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,000 They're very different. Helping something, having 689 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,200 something that helps me transition forward is really, 690 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:06,800 really important because I am one of those people that 691 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,160 experienced some mild cut of shin splint, shin splint 692 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,200 symptoms when I first started running, right. 693 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,360 I need that help with that transition forward. 694 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,200 Do I get on my forefoot all the time? 695 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:16,960 Yeah, I do. Is that all the time? 696 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,840 No, I just tend to be my knee and my shins tend to be a little 697 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,200 sensitive when there isn't a bevel because I feel that 698 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,480 because I have to transit, get myself forward, it doesn't need 699 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,000 to be too aggressive. And I will say the audios Pro 2 700 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:30,520 felt really good for shorter distances. 701 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,520 I did try to take that for A20K and buy like 15. 702 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,360 Ki was dying because I was just getting rolled out too. 703 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,160 So there is such a thing as too much. 704 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,440 But I would encourage company to really look at yes, either 705 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,280 having things centered or if if they know the foam's going to 706 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,560 compress well enough or slightly post your lateral would be very, 707 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,920 very helpful. Or you could go the ultra route 708 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,480 and have the whole thing rounded like heal the whole. 709 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,760 Thing, yeah. That might make it unstable for 710 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,400 people with like severe like lateral stability. 711 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,480 So that's why I say it has to depend a little bit, right? 712 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,880 You have to know your customer, know who the shoes being meant 713 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,080 for and have some options. So wait, that's a great example, 714 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:13,440 by the way, of a really aggressive bevel, which for me 715 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,679 that tends to be a little clumpy because it's so sharp. 716 00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:19,960 But how do you deal with that? And what shoe is that so the the 717 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:21,560 listeners know? Yeah. 718 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,719 So for the listeners, I'm holding up the Brooks Siberian 719 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,560 Max 2, which is a pretty big shoe right now. 720 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,679 People are liking it. They really are. 721 00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:31,239 It's been really positive. And, and I like it a lot too, 722 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:35,280 especially for daily miles, kind of like what we were talking 723 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,719 about earlier. I don't really need it to be 724 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,719 rounded that far up as long as it's rounded a little bit. 725 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,120 So this one's aggressive, but it's, it's short, so it doesn't 726 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,480 extend super far into the midfoot there. 727 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,239 It's just like that little bit. And so that's why like if you 728 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:53,000 kind of need a little bit more of a transitionary kind of heel 729 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,440 bevel there like that, you this might not be the shoe for you 730 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,920 that might feel a little bit jarring like you're describing. 731 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:00,840 But if you just need a little bit of rounding, you're kind of 732 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:05,400 already kind of forward just naturally like that is a shoe 733 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,880 that will do that for you, just basically gives you the rounding 734 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:12,920 that you need and nothing else. And so aggressive initially, but 735 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,520 it doesn't extend very far anterior or forward. 736 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,960 I find that shoe works really, really well for me while walking 737 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,240 and while running very quick. That moderate pace doesn't work 738 00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:26,040 well because I'm just a little bit farther back. 739 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,160 But other people are going to have different experiences. 740 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,880 But you are doing a great job with reminding me that to bring 741 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,840 this last topic up as we have just jumped all over the place 742 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,480 about the fact you can have a bevel, but how it's shape can 743 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,880 have a big impact on how it actually functions. 744 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,560 The other end of the spectrum is a shoe like the Puma Magmax 745 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,560 which also has been fairly popular. 746 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,720 This is a great shoe, for example, of where Andrew and I 747 00:35:50,720 --> 00:35:54,080 really had different experiences because she lands more forward 748 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,600 and thought the bevel was fine. I didn't because there's a lot 749 00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,400 of posterior lot posterior flare. 750 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,440 Posterior flare is where the sole extends beyond where the 751 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,560 heel is backwards. So what that typically does is 752 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,040 when you have a lot of posterior flare basically means you're 753 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,800 going to hit the ground early and transition forward. 754 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,200 So it kind of like undos the whole point of a bevel. 755 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,600 So you could still have this beveled, but especially if that 756 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,000 bevel is really sharp like this shoe, it it still might feel 757 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,040 like there's an early landing on almost like the heel is not 758 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,040 beveled and then kind of undoes it somewhat for someone like me. 759 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,840 Other people have reported this is not an issue for them. 760 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,960 I'm sure if you can land at the right spot, compress the heels, 761 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,000 great. But again, angles matter is kind 762 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,960 of is what we're talking about that yes, the majority shoes out 763 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,080 there, unless it's a pure orthopedic shoe with somebody 764 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,760 with balance issues really should have a bevel to mimic the 765 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,320 heel rocker of the foot. It's important mechanism for 766 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,520 efficiency with gait is a very normal part of the human 767 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:52,160 anatomy. And especially as shoes are 768 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,760 getting higher and higher in stack heights, you need to try 769 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,360 to replicate that if it's going to feel really clunky and not 770 00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,120 very comfortable. That said, there's a balance, 771 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:01,680 right? Somebody like me might like a 772 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,240 huge poster louder one because that really helps roll me 773 00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:06,320 forwards, gives me a little bit more stability. 774 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,120 Someone like David might need not need as big of a bevel and 775 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,120 certainly not as big of a poster louder one. 776 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,360 That might be a little bit better to have it just be 777 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,120 slightly smaller or just a little bit more moderate like 778 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,640 you know, everything kind of in moderation so to speak. 779 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,320 But that's kind of our complicated way of saying it 780 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,120 depends. But hoping that the helps give 781 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,920 you a little more clarity as to why we talk about bevels and why 782 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,160 they are really important to talk about. 783 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,600 Did I miss anything on that? Did we miss anything? 784 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,320 I I think, I mean we just talked about heel bevels for 40 785 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,280 minutes. I know that's pretty impressive. 786 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,640 That is pretty impressive, I. Would have thought I mean, you 787 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,160 know, we that's a more impressive that we actually able 788 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,520 to condense it down to 40 minutes not spend like 4 hours 789 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,840 talking about this, but. I was a little curious to see 790 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,280 how this would go for the listeners that have been here 791 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,320 for a while. You guys know how passionate 792 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,000 client can get about heel bevels. 793 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,400 I was getting ready to pull some popcorn and just like sit back 794 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:02,640 here and just let you go and just and just see what happens 795 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,800 on this wild ride. But we've kept it contained. 796 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,440 I think years of doing this podcast and also teaching and 797 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,000 watching students get bored as you drone on or patients get 798 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,000 bored, it's like, all right, we got to like wrap this up. 799 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,840 I thought we were going to be done like at 2025 minutes and I 800 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:17,600 realized, Oh my gosh, we have all this other stuff we got to 801 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,880 talk about. But as always, we hope this 802 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:21,680 helps. We are always putting out new 803 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,240 content and there's many, many different avenues that you can 804 00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:28,480 see, watch, observe, read, whatever, whatever you take in 805 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,960 on social media and other areas. Obviously the biggest area is 806 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,160 our website where we produce the most content, whether it's 807 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,320 reviews, guide, anatomy discussions, all this kind of 808 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:38,640 stuff. Talking about shoes and how they 809 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,600 impact us. We obviously have a YouTube 810 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:42,200 channel. We have different avenues for 811 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:46,120 the podcast, for Spotify, iTunes, and what have you. 812 00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:48,760 We also got a hop and LinkedIn page. 813 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,440 And I got to keep giving Bach the shout out for that because 814 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,320 it's actually like taking off and it's really exciting to 815 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,800 watch that there and connect with a lot of the people in the 816 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,240 industry there. But again, you can find us 817 00:38:58,240 --> 00:39:00,400 anywhere. As always, really hope this 818 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,640 helps you explain kind of what's either going on with your body, 819 00:39:03,720 --> 00:39:08,120 what's going on with shoes and as always, keep asking questions 820 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:08,520 and stick.