1 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:12,040 Everyone and welcome to the Doctors are Running podcast 2 00:00:12,040 --> 00:00:14,480 where we, a group of doctors, physical therapy talked about 3 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:16,640 the art and the science of the things we're putting on our 4 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:18,680 feet. Today it is me and Doctor 5 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,920 Schloss who's going to go through a mailbag episode, which 6 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,120 I find always really fun because it's kind of going through like 7 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:26,160 clinical cases and we just have to reason our way through. 8 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:28,840 So just so you know, we usually go through these beforehand, but 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,080 some of these are going to be a little challenging and you're 10 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,880 going to hear David and I have to reason through and talk you 11 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:35,840 through. So hopefully you, us taking you 12 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,120 along this journey helps you learn because I promise you 13 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,480 we're learning just as much. So David, how you doing? 14 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,040 Doing well, man. Just, I mean, honestly, just 15 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,800 getting back into rhythm after Cimi. 16 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,000 Mean. You know, I I've been traveling 17 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,000 almost every single weekend since the beginning of November, 18 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,000 which has been wild between a good friend's wedding. 19 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,760 You know the holidays CIM our Boston trip like. 20 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:02,800 Which was a. Blast. 21 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:04,959 Which is great. It was all really, really fun. 22 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,440 But then I actually got sick, like immediately following all 23 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:10,840 of that, which was probably bound to happen. 24 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:16,640 And then I got sick again. So I I like, I had like one or 25 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:18,720 two days of feeling better. And then I got hit again. 26 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,240 So I'm just kind of getting back into the swing of things like I 27 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:26,160 I ran this last week. I think I got 45 miles in which 28 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:31,600 I was pretty happy with, ran six of seven days and hopefully I 29 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,800 got 12 1/2 in this morning. My day start on, my week start 30 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,400 on Sundays, so the start of a new week. 31 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,720 I'm hoping I can kind of get the rhythm back this coming week. 32 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,280 We should we should do an episode On what day of the week 33 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,160 does your stuff start on? That's true. 34 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:49,320 Yeah. Is it Monday or Sunday? 35 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,480 Like I I I I don't know I'm I guess it's always cool. 36 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,960 I'm Sunday. Monday because then it puts too 37 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,320 much pressure on Saturday to get like a long run in, although I 38 00:01:58,320 --> 00:01:59,720 just did. My now I just do your long run 39 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:01,680 Sunday. You put 20 miles into the front. 40 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:04,880 But then you don't get the same long run benefit the previous 41 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,960 week. It's it doesn't matter if you're 42 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,680 going to run your long run. When you run your long run, it 43 00:02:10,759 --> 00:02:12,800 does. We'll do a full, full podcast on 44 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,480 this at some point. Oh man, but I'm good. 45 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,080 So we good, good, good. Should we just jump into? 46 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,720 This let's do it. All right, let's just jump in. 47 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:26,520 So our first mail mail bag mail question here comes from Doug 48 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:28,320 which really appreciate says love the podcast, really 49 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:29,680 appreciate the depth of conversation. 50 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,960 I'm A50 plus runner who is thankfully getting faster around 51 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,520 3:15 marathoner. I'm a big believer in shoe 52 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,840 rotation. Happily your episode confirmed 53 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:39,960 my approach. My question is regarding the 54 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,720 long run shoe options. I'm currently using a Saucony 55 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,320 Triumph but wondering if it is a better choice. 56 00:02:45,640 --> 00:02:48,080 Would something like the Saucony ride a bit snappier with the 57 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,480 lower drop or even a Speed 3 for the long run recovery days? 58 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,560 I'm not looking to get faster on the long run, but rather 59 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:56,840 wondering whether the Super cushion shoe is hindering 60 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:00,160 overall strength and resiliency development or is it actually 61 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,400 protecting me from damage on those days? 62 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,280 Just for reference, the current rotation is Socket Endorphin 63 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,440 Elite for racing, Socket Endorphin, Speed Three or Ride 64 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,720 for Tempos and Triumph for easy runs and apparently for long 65 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:14,600 runs. So David, I'll throw that at you 66 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:17,520 because you have an extensive, you're the fastest of the group. 67 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,720 So what do you think about the shoe rotation? 68 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,560 And then really the question comes down to what about long 69 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,760 run shoe choice? Yeah, I honestly, I don't think 70 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:28,720 it's really that bad of a choice. 71 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:33,040 I think it'd be more looking at what terrain you're running on 72 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:38,600 and what your roots look like. Mainly because if I'm looking at 73 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:44,440 this correctly, so your tempo days are your Saucony ride and 74 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:46,560 endorphins speed 3. Yeah. 75 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:53,160 And your easy days are your Triumph, and then your race days 76 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:58,800 are your elite. Oh, man, that's a tough one. 77 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,760 Like looking at it from a mileage standpoint. 78 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:03,160 I don't. I don't know how much you're 79 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,120 running. But if if we're looking at it, 80 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,400 let's just say you're running 50 miles a week. 81 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,880 If all of your easy days are in the Triumph and you're only in 82 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:15,280 the ride for your workouts or your speed for your workouts, 83 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,040 then it might be a little bit compliant. 84 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:23,240 If your long run is, I don't know, let's say 13 miles, it's 85 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:27,280 hard to say. But if you feel like it's a 86 00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:30,560 little bit soft and compliant and you're feeling like you need 87 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:32,560 a little bit more ground feel, there's nothing wrong with 88 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:33,960 putting that sock and you ride on. 89 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,840 I mean, that shoe still has what, 35mm of foam under you. 90 00:04:36,840 --> 00:04:38,760 It's not like it's that low to the ground. 91 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,520 I've done 20 mile runs in that shoe just fine. 92 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:46,760 I I would really just listen to your body on that one, because 93 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,000 neither are the wrong choice. It's more just a matter of how 94 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,320 you're feeling. Like if you did all of your 95 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,280 daily runs in the ride and you were like, oh, just for the long 96 00:04:55,280 --> 00:04:57,080 runs, I don't want to beat up my legs that much. 97 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,760 I'm going to put the Triumph on. Nothing wrong with that. 98 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,040 I do that all the time. Not necessarily the Triumph 99 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:04,720 specifically. I have done that for the 100 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,320 Triumph, but like that kind of category right where you kind of 101 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,160 have a little bit more of a resilient foam, a little bit 102 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,360 more energy return, higher stack, a little bit more 103 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,200 Rockard, like you just want to fall into rhythm and just get 104 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,040 your mileage done. Like you can totally do that. 105 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:24,760 But I will say with the Triumph specifically like if I I've done 106 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:29,600 a 20 plus mile run and ended on like like trail kind of wood, 107 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,960 chippy, soft things and I was not enjoying that experience. 108 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,920 So like it really just depends on what you're running on and I 109 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,440 think how what your body is craving and if you know you're 110 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:41,880 going to be on road, then it's really just a matter of what you 111 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:43,800 want. If you know you're going to be 112 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,240 on softer compliant things, we'll pick the thing that gives 113 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:50,360 you a more grounded experience. So I, I, I'm sorry to give that 114 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:54,600 great answer for you, Doug. But like it's really going to 115 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,880 come down to what you what, what you need, what you internally 116 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,040 feel like you want and need. Neither are a bad choice in this 117 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,200 situation. I would totally agree. 118 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,680 I'm going to come at this from a little different thing is since 119 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,760 it sounds like you're a marathoner because you gave us 120 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:10,760 your marathon time, I think it would. 121 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,400 It's going to depend on your training, the where you are in 122 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,440 your training cycle, where for me, when I'm just getting into 123 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,920 stuff and I'm like right now, I'm just starting to hit after a 124 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:21,800 lot. You know, a lot has happened 125 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,320 this year between actually a year ago was when I broke my 126 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:25,920 toe, so like. You're right, Took. 127 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,000 Me a while. It took me a while to get back, 128 00:06:28,280 --> 00:06:30,560 got went through a lot of stuff with PhD not. 129 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:32,920 Happy. Kid yeah, it's been a crazy year 130 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,440 so it took me a while to get back and so I'm just now getting 131 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,960 back to doing 13 to 15 mile long runs and it's the first time 132 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,800 I've done that in a while. But when I started out and I was 133 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:45,480 just doing it, I did everything in in like Sakony Ride and and 134 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,720 try it like non super esque type shoes. 135 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,520 Although the newest Triumph and Ride, they're both using power 136 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,200 and Plus and then the Triumph, they're both can move. 137 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,000 So it's not like it's there. The phones are getting a lot 138 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:58,440 better. That's a different conversation, 139 00:06:58,840 --> 00:07:01,560 but you're talking about the endorphin Speed three and the 140 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,440 power run P and going, hey, it's a super's shoe. 141 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,360 You're worried that potentially if you use a shoe like that, is 142 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,240 it actually protecting you from damage? 143 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,440 Are you not getting as much adaptation? 144 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,120 So there has been some research out there that suggests that you 145 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,640 get better in the type of shoe you use. 146 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,600 So I'd say early on in your training I think using a Triumph 147 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,000 or a A Ride is great. You're not. 148 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,080 You probably aren't doing specific like speedy long runs 149 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,400 in preparation for your marathon but once you get closer to your 150 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:35,200 your kind of goal races, I would throw on the Speed 3 because 151 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,720 it's going to be a closer thing to the endorphin elite. 152 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,240 And you always as you get closer to your goal, want to start 153 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,760 doing your like race type efforts in the shoe that you're 154 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:46,720 going like similar to the shoe going to be using. 155 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,800 So in my mind, I think the speed through would be a great option 156 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:51,640 as you get close to your marathon to, yeah, save your 157 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,080 legs a little bit, but also to get you used to going, what does 158 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:59,200 it feel like to be in a this kind of Super S shoe for these 159 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,320 longer miles? Whereas early on, if you want 160 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,480 that strength and resilience and stuff, yeah, do the like less 161 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,760 intense long runs in the Triumph and ride. 162 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,080 But as you get further along and you're going down doing much 163 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:11,960 harder things, I want to be able to bounce back. 164 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,200 I want to get for the red freeze and I want to get ready to 165 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,520 prepare my body for the type of shoe I'm going to use. 166 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,760 I would say speed three later. But also it could be differences 167 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:23,560 in terrain, differences how you feel. 168 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:25,200 So if you feel a little bit more beat up, you're like, I'm not 169 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,960 going to go as fast. Maybe a Triumph might be better 170 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:29,040 because that's how it's designed. 171 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,480 The Speed 3. The three in my mind did a 172 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,000 little bit better at easier paces, but it is technically 173 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,440 designed to be a little bit up tempo as opposed to the Triumph. 174 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,880 So it is going to depend on your body, but I'd see where Where 175 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:44,760 you are in your training cycle might make be another factor to 176 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:46,720 consider. I agree completely. 177 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,920 And I think looking at it, I don't know why. 178 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,640 Like in my head I was like deciphering between Ride and 179 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,560 Triumph. Yep, as you get closer to your 180 00:08:56,560 --> 00:08:59,640 races, by all means put on that performance trainer and get used 181 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,680 to running fast and get used to running your goal pace like I I 182 00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:07,160 agree wholeheartedly there. All right, so hopefully I 183 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:08,680 answered that. So let's go to Bradford. 184 00:09:08,680 --> 00:09:12,120 This is a great stability question and really the question 185 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:16,320 comes down to how much stability do I need, Which we've tried to 186 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,520 answer before but I think this this is a really great one. 187 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,640 Says still after listening and and doing this stuff for years I 188 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,960 find myself at a loss as to how much stability I do actually 189 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:25,920 need. So I'm hoping you guys can be 190 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,800 probably a little more guidance for me based on these facts I've 191 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:31,840 gotten back into running seriously for the past 2 1/2 192 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:33,560 years. Since high school I've always 193 00:09:33,560 --> 00:09:35,440 purchased stability shoes. Running store back then 194 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,920 suggested it due to pronation, which isn't always the biggest 195 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,200 factor for that unless you've had a history of pronation 196 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:41,840 related injuries but or as comfortable. 197 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,520 I've run in the socket and guides for the suggestion of a 198 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:46,880 running store, but when The Tempest came out a year later I 199 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,080 wanted to try a faster shoe with some stability. 200 00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:52,120 Over the course of the month I started experiencing pain in my 201 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,120 inner left leg above my ankle. Please be aware that we're not 202 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,760 here to diagnose UK, that could be a lot of different things. 203 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:00,800 PT showed I essentially have no arch in my left foot, slight 204 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,000 arch in my right. Arch height isn't static. 205 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,320 Arch height isn't necessarily relevant to your mechanics. 206 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,000 I went back to the guide fifteens and also added a Tread 207 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,920 Labs insole for the past year. I've had no issue with that 208 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:13,720 combo. Great. 209 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:15,200 Awesome. So you if you haven't had any 210 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:16,680 issues, that's great. That's working. 211 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,240 I have never tried to use the insole to Tempest. 212 00:10:19,560 --> 00:10:22,480 For all the stability reviews I read, it seems like posting is 213 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:24,560 being phased out. Which yeah, it's disappearing. 214 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,440 I know I might be outdated, but I have had success with that 215 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,520 posting and feeling a little bit wary that there are less 216 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,000 options. And now with upcoming guide 217 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,280 phasing out, posting for a new stability system, I'd be more 218 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,720 wary of what my next shoe move should be. 219 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,960 So I'm going to clarify really quick that we haven't tried it 220 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,600 yet. But the new Omni 22, which is 221 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,880 much like it's like 10 oz now, which is way better, actually 222 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,760 still has that plastic post in there. 223 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,320 So it's they're not totally gone, There are still shoes that 224 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:53,600 have that. So if you're concerned about 225 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:58,400 that, the Omni 22 might be another great option for you to 226 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,560 look at. But yeah, that's a challenge. 227 00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:04,320 You know, shoes. The Omni 22, the Brooks 228 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,440 adrenaline, which doesn't look like it, but it still apparently 229 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:07,520 has a post. What else? 230 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:13,080 Still the The New Balance 860 still has a medial post. 231 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:14,360 That's a good one. That's a good one. 232 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,040 Yeah, that's another great option that's been really sold. 233 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:18,560 It was a little heavier than the other two. 234 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,080 There is a. Topo option out there, I'm gonna 235 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,760 get one. Is it the fly? 236 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:25,800 What is it? Yeah, I. 237 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,080 Believe it's the ultrafly. Yeah, yeah, that's definitely 238 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:30,680 that. Firmer does have a middle 239 00:11:30,680 --> 00:11:32,720 ground. Yeah, that's like, yeah, that's 240 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,240 a very posted option. Yep, Yep. 241 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,360 So I think one of the there are still shoes that have posts out 242 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:39,640 the odd. If you like want to stick with 243 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:41,680 socketing, the Omni 22 is still option. 244 00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:44,440 It's much lighter and less clunky than it was in the past. 245 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,320 I'm actually really excited to try it now as opposed to 246 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,880 previous versions. But my my thing with this being 247 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,800 is that just because it's still in the stability category 248 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,640 doesn't mean it's the right kind of stability for you and doesn't 249 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,640 mean it's it's not going to, it's going to be a smooth 250 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,920 transition. Anytime you have a new shoe, you 251 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:04,800 should take your time to transition into it. 252 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:09,080 The Tempest is not the same as the previous guides, right? 253 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:13,000 One of those has that plastic like Arch, Cage, whatever they 254 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,480 call it post ish, The Tempest doesn't right. 255 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,600 It's got the sidewalls. It does stability very 256 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:20,840 differently and just because stability issue doesn't 257 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:22,560 necessarily mean it's going to work or doesn't mean you're 258 00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:24,440 going to adapt quickly. So if you're going to have 259 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,640 something like that, my suggestion next time is sure try 260 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:29,120 to install The Tempest. You never know. 261 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:30,880 You know, I know we don't normally suggest that because we 262 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,240 don't know how it's going to work, but if it works, great. 263 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,160 But you should also not just jump into a shoe like that. 264 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:38,160 You should take some time to go. Hey, I'm going to do the 265 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:40,600 majority of my runs of my guide and then I'm going to do like 266 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,280 one run to do a little bit faster in The Tempest and kind 267 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,760 of ease my way into this and give me my body some time to 268 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,760 adapt to it because that's kind of almost what it sounded like 269 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,080 because again, we haven't evaluated you. 270 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,320 But arch height by itself is not the best indicator. 271 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,640 Static arch height isn't the best indicator of your function. 272 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,920 I don't know what the PT did, so I'm not judging and there is 273 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:02,800 still stability in The Tempest, but how it's done is very 274 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,640 different than previous guides. And so you yeah, it's normal And 275 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:08,800 a lot of people are really concerned that hey a lot of the 276 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,200 issues are going towards guidance methods and it is going 277 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,080 to feel different. So what you do need to do is 278 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,640 don't just jump in, ease your way into it. 279 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,200 If you are ready to evolve from a host because it's different, 280 00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:23,440 it's not worse, it's not better, it's different in anything 281 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,440 different you have to take time to ease into or you can stick 282 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,520 with a couple options that we mentioned. 283 00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:32,440 David, what do you think? Yeah, I mean, I agree with all 284 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,280 that. But I like you did with the last 285 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:36,600 question. I'll take this from a slightly 286 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:41,440 different angle to go off of the question, specifically of how 287 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,080 much stability do I actually? Need. 288 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:44,160 Oh yeah, I forgot to answer that. 289 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,880 Yeah, that's that is. That's a tough one, man. 290 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:52,360 Like, because so much of that is dependent on how you are. 291 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:54,520 I don't know where you are in a training cycle. 292 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,600 I don't know how you're feeling. I don't know how you're 293 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:57,720 sleeping. I don't. 294 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,440 There's so many variables that go into this, but being someone 295 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,200 that is in a lot of different pairs of shoes on a relatively 296 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:10,520 daily basis, like I there are certain shoes, if I'm tired, 297 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,000 they're just not going to work for me. 298 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,320 And if I'm fresh and I feel good, they're the greatest shoe 299 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,560 on the planet, right? Like and there's just certain 300 00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:20,880 things where it's like they're situation dependent. 301 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:25,920 And so I think with the amount of stability that you actually 302 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:30,880 need, that can be a that that can be variably variable that is 303 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:33,680 a a good way to say that. I don't know. 304 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:39,200 But like really taking a look at what you like, what are the 305 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,160 things that you notice in a shoe, the small components, 306 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,520 right? Like when I hear this, I'm 307 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,520 picturing a post, right. So a firmer midfoot usually 308 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:49,960 usually has a little bit of a higher side, while medially 309 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,440 you're putting an insole in there, you're you, it sounds 310 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,360 like you like to have a little bit of something or a little bit 311 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,680 of pressure kind of riding up on that navicular. 312 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:03,480 And so that whether or not that's controlling motion or 313 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,080 not, the sensation of having it there or having that 314 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,520 proprioceptive element seems to be valuable. 315 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:14,840 And so I would look into shoes that give you that opportunity 316 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:19,200 to feel that and if you like having the insole in there, by 317 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,840 all means have the insole in there, you know and but by no 318 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:23,600 means am I saying take the insole out. 319 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:30,000 But by having that element in the mid foot is what I'm hearing 320 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,960 is what you like. And so I think of shoes lately 321 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,920 at least. I mean, like what the adrenaline 322 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,200 GTS. Yes, to sidewall, but like you 323 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:40,960 can. It has that in there. 324 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,200 There's also issues like. Per per our conversations, the 325 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,960 Adrenaline still does have a medial post in the mid foot, 326 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:48,320 even though you can't really see it. 327 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,000 Yeah, and then I also think of something like the Nike 328 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,640 structure, too. Like, even though that's like a, 329 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,640 it's technically a sidewall. Like it's not a post, but that 330 00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,720 thing rides up pretty high and you can't feel. 331 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:01,400 It does, yeah. And if you can't? 332 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:02,920 Feel that I just ran in that this morning. 333 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,320 Yeah. And like, I don't put insoles in 334 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:09,640 my shoes personally, but if the insole does work and it fits and 335 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,480 you have that sidewalk, like that could be an option as well. 336 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,120 Yeah. So I would just listen to your 337 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,840 body on that one. Like when I'm what I'm hearing 338 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,840 is that that's the sensation that you like, regardless of 339 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,880 whatever biomechanical things that may or may not happen while 340 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,560 it's on. But I would just intuitively 341 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,520 like listen to yourself essentially. 342 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,920 I would totally agree that yeah, there's something going on that 343 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:35,920 you they like that medial pressure in the mid foot for 344 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:37,640 sure, especially if they're putting the insole in there. 345 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:39,800 And I would say don't get rid of The Tempest. 346 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,040 I think having the guide or now the Omni is a good shoe to do a 347 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,280 majority of marriage in. But then if you want to do 348 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,960 something a little bit faster, pick The Tempest up for one day, 349 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:50,560 right? Don't just jump into it. 350 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,360 Because we know again that having a shoe rotation at least 351 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,400 two, two is kind of the minimum, which it sounds like you have. 352 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,960 Being able to switch between them is a good idea because how 353 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,120 much stability you need might vary. 354 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,119 If you're more beat up one day, you might need more stability. 355 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,160 If you're feeling really fresh and good, you might need a 356 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,599 little bit less. So the answer does vary a little 357 00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:13,160 bit, but at the end of the day, comfort and figuring out how you 358 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:14,480 feel is probably the biggest factor. 359 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,520 So I think David's totally right and there's some good shoes out 360 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:18,720 there. But again, I would suggest if 361 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,680 the guide worked for you, the newest Omni is a natural 362 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:23,960 progression in that. And I wouldn't throw your 363 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,359 Tempest out. I'd say, hey, just try it for 364 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:28,880 some shorter runs if you want to run a little faster, you know. 365 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,680 But it doesn't sound like this is an everyday shoe for you at 366 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:33,680 the moment. And it might be someday. 367 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,920 You don't know. But things do change, all right? 368 00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:40,480 Tammy on Instagram asked. Hey, Dior, Merry Christmas. 369 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,360 Here's one for the mailbag. As someone with a wide foot and 370 00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:46,640 a flat arch, I struggle to find a neutral state or stable 371 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,400 neutral shoe that hasn't gotten intrusive metal posts. 372 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:50,600 OK, we have the opposite question. 373 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,600 Now that leaves an angry lion across along my arch. 374 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,240 Hokahs are not great for this, right? 375 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,000 Because hokahs generally have. I'm not sure if she's meaning a 376 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,160 medial post or side walls, because a lot of hokahs 377 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,720 definitely have the large side walls, which I works really well 378 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,440 for me. Not well for everyone. 379 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,480 So do you have a recommendation, particularly for long distance 380 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:13,800 for shoes basically that have that have a lower either not a 381 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,400 medial post or a lower side wall, but still wider and going 382 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,680 to accommodate someone that might need a little more stable 383 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,520 shoe with lower arches? Also I've read that people with 384 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:24,600 flat arches benefit from a firmer shoe. 385 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,080 What are your thoughts on this, David? 386 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:29,440 What do you think? Yeah. 387 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,400 So there's a couple different components to this question. 388 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,840 I'll just start with the intrusive medial post and the 389 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,400 angry line upon your arch. Whether or not that's a post or 390 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,400 a sidewall, hard to say because when I hear that specifically 391 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:46,280 with Hoka, like they do have a pretty solid undercut there, 392 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,800 like medially with the upper and the side wall. 393 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,800 Like I've gotten friction there myself, and I don't consider 394 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,200 myself to have wide feet by any. Means we've all gotten that, 395 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,960 like medial the hookah, the hookah blister, right? 396 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:58,080 That was. Kind of. 397 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,320 I remember specifically Clifton Six. 398 00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:03,320 I remember very specifically that model where I was like this 399 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,520 thing is Rob, like I like the shoe, but it is blistering the 400 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,960 crap out of my mid foot every single time I run it. 401 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,880 It's gotten better since then. Don't don't take that as Clifton 402 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:18,160 blasphemy, but I take a look at that. 403 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,680 Really what I'm hearing is that we want a little bit more space 404 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,920 in the mid foot. So when I hear that, I think of 405 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,200 shoes like the Ultra paradigm where you still have a lot of 406 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,880 guidance, you have a good amount of side walls like it. 407 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,720 It basically gives you that stability there or that kind of 408 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,440 neutral stability that you're looking for without encroaching 409 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,520 on that mid foot too much. I feel like that's a shoe that 410 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:45,200 definitely checks those boxes. Another one that I think of 411 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,960 without quite as dramatic sidewalls, because the paradigm 412 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:49,960 technically is in their stability category. 413 00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:53,640 It is, and it does have a really large heel sidewall and then the 414 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,440 mid foot does tape around a little bit, so that might still 415 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,280 be an issue, but at least it's a little bit lower in the arch for 416 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:00,240 sure. Yeah. 417 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,480 Another shoe, though not technically in the stability 418 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,760 category, but does run like a stable neutral and does kind of 419 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,160 check those boxes is the Topo Atmos. 420 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:13,000 So the Topo Atmos, pretty good volume, pretty good width. 421 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,160 I mean, if I just hold that thing up, you can kind of see 422 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:16,480 that there's like some space there. 423 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,040 You know, like it's got a pretty accommodating fit, but it still 424 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,600 locks down really well. And so that's one where you can 425 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,160 still get that kind of rocket ride, you get that experience 426 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,080 where it's like Hoka esque I guess you could say if you like 427 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,160 that kind of a ride, but you the but the fit doesn't agree with 428 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,720 you. It's basically got that and it's 429 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:37,600 got side walls. You can kind of see it riding up 430 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,600 there on both sides there laterally, and I would. 431 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,000 Argue that it looks like it doesn't have side walls, and 432 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,120 that actually might be what Tammy's looking for. 433 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:45,760 So I think. Yeah, well, laterally it does. 434 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,440 Laterally it got it, but immediately it actually doesn't. 435 00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:53,960 And so there is kind of that singe point, but you've got 436 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,480 quite a bit of space between that and that singe point. 437 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,480 So and then you've got a wide base. 438 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,440 It kind of like it just checks those boxes. 439 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,320 I feel like that's a solid option there. 440 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:04,360 I definitely really tough with Admirals. 441 00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:06,280 I really want to try that shoe like that looks. 442 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:08,600 I've actually suggested it to several people and I haven't 443 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,040 even. It's nice, man. 444 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,120 Russ, you're listening to this. Come on, man. 445 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,480 Yeah, come on. My, my suggestion to this, I 446 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,280 would throw the the Brooks Ghost Max in there because this shoe 447 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,440 is almost sounding exactly like this where it actually doesn't 448 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,400 really have much in the way of side walls, but it's got a 449 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,800 really wide, especially the midfoot is fairly wide and 450 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,520 that's kind of how this shoe was designed. 451 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,640 This is building off the Dyad, which is normally a shoe. 452 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,520 I would. It was literally designed. 453 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:37,440 The Brooks Dyad was designed for people to pull. 454 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,560 Around just a pair of dyads. I did. 455 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,280 I never reviewed it because sorry Brooks, this shoe was so 456 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,200 uncomfortable to run in. I couldn't get 20 miles on it. 457 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:46,840 I I did. I did a video of you. 458 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:48,960 Like I literally can't do this. It is so uncomfortable. 459 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,040 I don't know how people write in these to be honest, but so the 460 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,160 the going. Max is writing this out. 461 00:21:54,360 --> 00:21:57,120 Yeah, sorry. For Brooks, I'm talking crap. 462 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,320 The Ghost Max though is is the successor to. 463 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,440 That is a massive improvement where it's twofold where those 464 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,200 people that have a lower arch and they want something that's a 465 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,280 little bit more stable, but it's not a stability. 466 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:09,800 She was something jamming into your arch. 467 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,480 The Ghost Max is probably one of my go to's for that just because 468 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,760 of the way it's set up, where it's set up to still be a stable 469 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,680 neutral but without some of those things that can be 470 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,680 irritated like can caught like sidewalls some posts can 471 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,440 sometimes cause those issues. The other nice thing about that 472 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,360 is it's designed for orthotics, so if you need an orthotic in 473 00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:29,720 there or something that has a lower arch that's a little bit 474 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,240 firmer, that might be fine. But the last part of that 475 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,760 question I think there's some sort of good options at most the 476 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,960 bricks ghost, maybe the the paradigm. 477 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,160 The last question is, do people with flat arches benefit from a 478 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,600 firmer shoe? And there hasn't really been any 479 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:50,360 evidence on that, just because you have to realize that arches 480 00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:55,160 haven't really been suggested to play a major part in footwear, 481 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,440 bio mechanics and like, like, predicted things with injury, 482 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,760 right? So from a comfort perspective, 483 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,640 that's going to be dependent on you as an individual, not your 484 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,560 arch height. It's like, do you like firmer 485 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,640 shoes or not? Are firmer shoes typically a 486 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,400 little more stable? Yeah, but that depends on if 487 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,480 you'd like it. If you don't like firmer shoes, 488 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,280 it's going to feel really uncomfortable and you're not 489 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,360 going to wear a shoe. And so from the run cat, the 490 00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:18,400 comfort assessment thing, you're going to be like, this sucks. 491 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,760 So from a stability standpoint, can that help? 492 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,720 Yes, a super soft shoe is inherently less stable. 493 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,160 That's just how it goes. But it doesn't mean you need a 494 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,960 rock hard shoe. And that's that. 495 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,960 I think the Ghost Max in my mind, and I don't know what the 496 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:34,880 atmos feels like. What's the missile like? 497 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,720 You know, it's kind of what you picture. 498 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,360 I mean, it's just the foam, so it's not like. 499 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:42,840 Is it like that? Kind of like slightly firmer. 500 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,520 Topo Yeah, Yeah, It's kind of slightly firmer, but there's a 501 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,560 lot of it. So it kind of is softer than the 502 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,920 other things they have. So it, yeah, it's like a 503 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:51,640 structure cushioning, I guess you could say. 504 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,720 Yeah, so the Atmos might be a really great option. 505 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,000 The Ghost Max is a little bit softer, but again, that's it's 506 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,160 not necessarily a bad thing. It's still fairly well, it's 507 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,240 still fairly stable, neutral. So I think it just depends on 508 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,160 your body. But yeah, a little firmness 509 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,320 isn't bad, isn't a bad thing, but you also don't want so rigid 510 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,520 that it's uncomfortable. It's got to be comfortable for 511 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,600 you. So kind of. 512 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,800 But there's some other factors that are going to be more 513 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,480 important. And firmness isn't necessarily 514 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:17,640 the biggest factor you want to look at. 515 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,960 With Archite, I'd be more concerned about what's the 516 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,560 insole, What's the like, inner part of the shoe? 517 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,040 Like, is it hitting your foot the wrong way? 518 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:30,040 It's probably a bigger concern to me, but all right, so Jay's 519 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,600 emailing says happy New Year. Happy New year to you too, Jay 520 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,440 says. So when I find a shoe I like I 521 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,520 will stock up. I used to do this too. 522 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,400 The last shoe I fell into this category was the Triumph 19 from 523 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,360 Saucony. This was my long run cruiser and 524 00:24:42,360 --> 00:24:45,080 slow paced shoe. I burnt through Now 3 pairs and 525 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,000 on my and I'm on my 4th pair. I get around 500 miles before 526 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,440 retiring these shoes from running. 527 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,600 Which the Triumph is Super Drupal thing is good 100 miles. 528 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,640 On every single pair. 19, Yes. Was it like that thing, Lester, 529 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,320 or something like? Oh yeah, that's right. 530 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,800 Yeah, I think that's. Dent in that thing, yeah. 531 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,160 Yeah, so I tried on the Triumph 20. 532 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,160 It was not sold because of the 10mm drop. 533 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,120 I think it went from eight in the 19 to 10. 534 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,440 So my question is what is the natural changes in from this 535 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,240 shoe, The ride 17 or the Triumph 21 I guess on follow up which 536 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:18,560 included in your review of Okay. If this helps, I'm 55 year old, 537 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,160 male, 180 lbs. I run in the 19 Nova Blast 3 but 538 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,080 not for long runs. I can't get past 6 miles of 539 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,120 them. They bowed them out on me and my 540 00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:28,320 4 foot Hertz. I have concerns about stack 541 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,280 heights in place as I get older, and I have experimented with the 542 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,360 the that's suckany, the Adidas bostons. 543 00:25:34,360 --> 00:25:37,280 So I'm gonna throw this at you. What do you think? 544 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:43,080 Is the Ride 17 or the Triumph 21 the natural successor to the 545 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,280 Triumph 19? Oh, that's so hard, man. 546 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:52,480 I think if I was choosing between the two, I would say the 547 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:58,040 Ride 17 is a closer successor than the Triumph 21. 548 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,000 That power run plus that's in the Triumph 21. 549 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,720 It's a little bit softer. I don't know if they changed the 550 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,080 durometer on it or if there's just more of it. 551 00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:11,280 I know they started using some biologic components as well, 552 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,040 right? I think on that one specifically 553 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,160 or was that just the run for good one or the run? 554 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,560 I don't know that I should know that I don't know. 555 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,840 Yeah, but either way, like the experience that you got in the 556 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,920 Triumph 19, I remember that shoe because I remember I liked it, 557 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,280 but it was so heavy. Like, I just remember like this 558 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,800 kind of like, I don't like the feeling that I got from that 559 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:39,320 Power Run Plus is probably in stack height and in feeling it's 560 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,760 probably closer to the Ride 17. Right. 561 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,320 I would definitely agree with that same thing. 562 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,480 Just because you have Power On Plus, as a reminder, just 563 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,680 because it's called something does not mean the foam is the 564 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,760 same. Like, for example, the Ride 17 565 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,680 and the Tramp 21. Even though they technically 566 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,720 both have power and Plus the foam does not feel the same 567 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,520 under foot. The Ride 17 definitely feels 568 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,120 firmer. The Triumph 21 feels softer. 569 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,080 That's it. Yeah, and I think you're also 570 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:04,360 coverage too. Well, let me see. 571 00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:05,720 I got my ride seventeens right here. 572 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:07,800 See, I told you. Moving the camera closer to the 573 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,440 wall would come in handy. Yeah, yeah, you're right. 574 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:12,560 We talked about that before this episode. 575 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,360 But we got Ride seventeens right here. 576 00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:18,640 So yeah, I mean, in a way, it honestly kind of looks like the 577 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,720 Triumph Just a. Lot lighter. 578 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,240 Yeah, yeah, it's definitely lighter, but you do have that 579 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,720 kind of grippy outsole. It's pretty thick, like it's 580 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,040 noticeable. You know where I feel like in 581 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,280 the Triumph 16, I'm the Triumph 16, My Bad Ride 16. 582 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,320 It wasn't quite as noticeable from an outsole perspective, and 583 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,400 I felt like in a Triumph 19, that outsole was very 584 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,600 noticeable. That was a very, like thick, 585 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,240 very grippy outsole. And the Power On Plus was kind 586 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,920 of on the firmer side, but it did have some compliance and 587 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,560 balance to it. So it's not a direct successor. 588 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,360 I'm not going to go out and say that, but I would say out of the 589 00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:57,160 two options there, this is definitely closer. 590 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,360 I mean, even if you just pulled up an online image and I just 591 00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:03,280 hold it statically here like this looks pretty Triumph 19 592 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,320 esque. Yep, I would totally agree. 593 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,480 In terms of it also has an 8mm drop, not the 10. 594 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:13,760 The power on plus in the ride is a a little bit firmer and then 595 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,640 honestly fit somewhat similar from what I'm remembering and. 596 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,520 Definitely drip in the outsole, like a little bit more narrow. 597 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,360 Yeah, yeah. Grippiness of the outsole is 598 00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:23,760 definitely somewhat similar. So I would say of the two, the 599 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,760 right 17, I'm totally with David on that one. 600 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,040 So totally get it. All right, let's see. 601 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,320 Oh, this was a great question. So Chung emailed and he says I'm 602 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,320 hoping for suggestion for you for a new running for new 603 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,720 running shoes. I'm flat footed and have a wider 604 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,680 forefoot and bunion in my right big toe. 605 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,080 I'm looking for some bouncy or more cushioned but lightweight 606 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,520 comfortable shoes for half or marathon racing and training. 607 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,680 I have never tried contemplated shoes due to my low arch. 608 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,560 I did my half marathon in the cloud monster. 609 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,880 I did 2 hours and 3 minutes and I'm hoping to improve on that. 610 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,520 Maybe run a full marathon in December 2024 so you have lots 611 00:28:58,520 --> 00:28:59,480 of time. This is good. 612 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,720 You're planning this out. Can you please give me some 613 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,360 suggestions so I can go try some new shoes? 614 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,600 Thank you. So we got wider 4 foot bunyan. 615 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:12,880 Looking at longer distance shoes, sounds like previous use 616 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,680 in the cloud monster concerns about carbon plated shoes. 617 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:18,840 That I will clarify. Just because you have a low arch 618 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,200 doesn't mean a carbon plated shoe is going to work for you. 619 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,600 It you just need to I I'm more concerned about carbon plated 620 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,880 shoes and speed, right. So I don't think a carbon plated 621 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,400 shoe may be the best option right now as you're getting a 622 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,760 little bit faster maybe you should get more aggressive later 623 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,080 on might be. But right now I have some ideas, 624 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,160 but I'm going to throw this to David first as always because we 625 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,040 joked about this what we're probably about ready to say 626 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:42,560 beforehand. But David, what do you think? 627 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,440 Yeah. I mean, when we take a look at 628 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,800 the anatomy of this, so relatively flat foot. 629 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,760 So I mean we're assuming a pronated position, we're kind of 630 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,080 collapsed a little bit there. And again, what you see 631 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,120 statically. Not necessarily pronated, just 632 00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,600 maybe flatter arch, which is also that that might be their 633 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:00,520 neutral. Yeah. 634 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,760 And then the wider forefoot, the bunion, So whether or not, I 635 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,160 don't know what your great toe mobility looks like, but right, 636 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:14,360 I have no idea. What I'm seeing here is you 637 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,800 would probably like a little bit more space up front and if 638 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,840 you're running two hours and 3 minutes, chances are this is 639 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,440 probably more in the recreational category. 640 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,400 Not to take anything away from your performances or anything, 641 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,880 It sounds like this is, you know, like you don't necessarily 642 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,120 need a vapor fire on your foot or something like that. 643 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,080 Like you can definitely get by with with another type of shoe. 644 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,800 I think of a shoe that has a little bit of a wider toe by 645 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,920 there, like a little bit lighter, a little bit more 646 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,200 responsive, but it doesn't sacrifice a lot of the things 647 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,720 that can kind of go into giving you something a little bit more 648 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,800 supportive or kind of having a little bit of guidance, 649 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,320 something like the Cloud Monster there. 650 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,920 But I'm thinking something like the Topo Spectre could be. 651 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,320 Yeah. We talked about this beforehand. 652 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:01,760 Yeah. And it's it's. 653 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,520 Really nice because you you do kind of have some of the 654 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,280 elements. It's got a people foam core. 655 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,480 So you got something it's a little bit faster, but it's also 656 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,680 something that has a lower arch. It's kind of that like 657 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,920 borderline stable esque. And then it's got that really 658 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,800 nice 4 foot wider forefoot that's not like you're sliding 659 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,440 around in it. It's just like Topo does just 660 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,280 right with this stuff. So especially the Bunya and the 661 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,280 wider forefoot. I think the Spectre is a great 662 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,760 option especially if you're looking for racing and training 663 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,840 because that shoot can do both those really really really well 664 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,640 that was a good I think it's good and what's really exciting 665 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,280 and and because Topo hasn't sent us these and we're not on any 666 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,760 embargo and they we we didn't see we weren't at Tre but we 667 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:45,800 doesn't mean we don't look at all the videos like all of you 668 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,200 do. The Spectre 2 is full length 669 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,440 complete PBA in the midsole and drops like 7.9 oz now. 670 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,560 So Topa is definitely doing some cool stuff. 671 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,400 They we we give them a lot of love, even though I don't know 672 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,640 how much love they give back. But definitely a go to for a lot 673 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,320 of the orthopedic issues that I deal with in terms of getting 674 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,000 that wider 4 foot but not being extreme in any way. 675 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,000 But I think the Specter is a great suggestion. 676 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,640 Do you have any other suggestions? 677 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,440 I have one other one off the top of my head, at least that's 678 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:21,080 behind me that I can grab the other one depending on how you 679 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,600 are in the mid foot. Now I don't know how you feel 680 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,680 having a little bit more of a narrow mid foot in there, but 681 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,880 this does have a little bit of a wider toe box and a wider 682 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,760 forefoot is the Boston 12O. Yeah. 683 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,760 So again, it's a performance trainer, lightweight, 684 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:38,560 responsive. It has a good chunk of Light 685 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:42,840 Strike Pro in there, but it does a lot with the Light Strike two 686 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,600 point O foam. It has a good lockdown, good 687 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:50,080 traction outsole, relatively wider base, and does have a 688 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,480 stiffening agent in there. But it's not carbon. 689 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,760 So it does have a little bit of flexibility to it. 690 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,960 So just another option to think about there and it's pretty 691 00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:02,600 durable and affordable and you could do some training miles in 692 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,200 it. And yeah, I mean, both those 693 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,240 shoes are actually pretty solid as far as that goes. 694 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,160 I think that's a great, that great idea. 695 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,000 Just be a little cautious with that one just because the newest 696 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,160 version, I think a lot of people are going to be fine for me. 697 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,520 The lateral extension at the mid foot might shove him more over 698 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,680 the big toe and because we don't know why he's getting that 699 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,400 bunion that may put a little bit more stress there. 700 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,400 It also might not, right. So I think the Boston, some of 701 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,840 these like partial super shoes if you wanted to race and train 702 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,080 is a great option. I don't, I think David was 703 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,040 totally right, you don't need a super shoe for this. 704 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,640 But some of these like partial ones, you got a little bit of 705 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,400 the extra foam, maybe a stiffening agent if you want it 706 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,480 might not be a bad idea. So I think those are some really 707 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,880 really good options off the top of our head that's had that 708 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:50,640 wider forefoot for sure, another possible one if you can handle 709 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:55,240 the and you don't you're wary of carbon plated shoes the and you 710 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:59,120 could you can handle lower drop. The Ultra Vanish tempo is 711 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,680 another option that might work really really well. 712 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,480 I reviewed that because I bought it myself as before we talk with 713 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,520 we connected with Ultra but it was a really nice shoe that did 714 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,719 have some bounce to it and again that wider fore put. 715 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:14,080 The only reason I would suggest the Specter over the Vanish is 716 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,600 the Vanish almost felt like it fit a half size short and it 717 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,159 almost felt tapered because the volume was a little lower. 718 00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:23,800 So honestly, I think the Specter is a better option, but it's 719 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,199 just an alternative if you want a little bit quicker and a 720 00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:29,360 little lighter shoe. All right, Sean sends us a 721 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,719 message about tempo question. So hey, I'm a former collegiate 722 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,960 pole vaulter awesome who's been getting more into distance 723 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,360 running the past couple years. One of my old teammates started 724 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,679 me in a parent of Arahi fives from Hoka that have worked well 725 00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:41,840 for me. I now use the Arahi 6 for some 726 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,719 tempo interval work in the 530. Pace with that's impressive and 727 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,280 the Keanu 30 which seems to work well for me. 728 00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:51,080 I did have some poster tibialis pain or other inner ankle tendon 729 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,120 pain for a couple months and do pronate when running. 730 00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:56,159 So history of pronation related stuff. 731 00:34:56,159 --> 00:34:58,720 OK, so that this person might benefit from stability shoes. 732 00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:01,640 OK based on the evidence since that bout with inner ankle pain 733 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:03,480 I've had some Achilles tendonitis due to military 734 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,440 training but able to building mileage since and be using heavy 735 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,160 slow resistance training. Awesome to strengthen it. 736 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,480 Long story, but would you have any recommendations for me to 737 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,680 try a more up tempo shoe or 5K10K ratio? 738 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,640 I've considered the Hyperion GTS but it would be nice to try a 739 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,760 super foam or some other type of tempo speed shoe. 740 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,680 Thank you Brooks, I love the Hyperion GTS, but please for the 741 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,520 love of all this holy put like a true super foam in there that 742 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,320 sorry I love you Brooks. I'm sorry OK, just come on. 743 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,880 And I would benefit from trying a more stable what and I would 744 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:33,720 benefit from trying a more stable neutral shoe in my 745 00:35:33,720 --> 00:35:35,080 rotation for tempo work question. 746 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,560 All through college I was fine with the Pegasus and track 747 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,760 spice, but obviously I wasn't doing much distance running. 748 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:41,160 Thank you. I know. 749 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,480 Sorry Brooks, I do. I love the Hyperion GTSI have 750 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,560 almost 100 miles on my pair. But it's not a super shoe. 751 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,960 You got to be fast to use it. I'm sorry, poor Brooks. 752 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,520 Poor David's cracking up. So I'll answer. 753 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,560 Since David is incapacity at the moment. 754 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,640 I think there are some really good options out there. 755 00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,400 I know a possible thing, we're going a little quicker, although 756 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,320 the Iraqi has been a great shoe because it's definitely a solid 757 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,920 stability shoe, but it's also definitely on the lighter and it 758 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,440 can move. Another option if you want to 759 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,680 try a super foam is the Saucony Tempest. 760 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,240 That was the first shoe that came to mind and at the moment, 761 00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:17,160 although there's actually some shoes coming out that are going 762 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,280 to change that in the next year. The Saucony Tempest is only 763 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,440 current stability shoe that I can think of that uses a quote 764 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,760 UN quote super foam in it. It definitely can move a little 765 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,200 quicker it's it's going to be far more similar to the Keanu 30 766 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,800 and Iraqi 6 than the Iperian GTS is. 767 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,760 So you're the transition might not be as great, but I think 768 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:38,560 that is going to be a really great option. 769 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,600 I don't know if it's necessarily a 5K10K shoe, I'm sure you could 770 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:45,560 use it as that, but definitely as a tempo shoe it would 771 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,920 certainly work for that. There is a shoe actually might 772 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,920 suggest that we might talk about a little later if you want a 5 773 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:53,960 take 10K shoe that is a little bit more stable. 774 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,200 But David, do you have any thoughts after cracking up? 775 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,960 Because I'm making fun of poor Brooks for needing a super foam. 776 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,800 No, I mean, honestly, when I look at this, I mean, if you're 777 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,680 doing a Rocky 6 and Keanu 30 for your interval and your tempo 778 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,320 work, I mean literally anything on the plan, it's probably going 779 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,680 to be lighter than that from a performance standpoint. 780 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,520 So I don't know if you necessarily need to have 781 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,280 anything like super light specific. 782 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,240 I saw you just grab the Rocket X2 there. 783 00:37:21,240 --> 00:37:24,120 That was one of the ones that I was thinking about where there's 784 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,160 a little bit more inherent stability there. 785 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,120 I've actually got it right here on my left as well. 786 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:33,000 So you've got some good sidewalls, you've got a wide 787 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,520 base, you've got a good midline groove, you've got good traction 788 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:38,600 and it's a pretty versatile option. 789 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,400 Obviously they're their athletes are racing in it from everything 790 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,240 from road 5K up to marathon. Even with the Cielo Rd. out, I 791 00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:47,640 think most of them are still opting for the Rocket X too. 792 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,640 They are, yeah. So I would totally agree with 793 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,640 that that this is to me one of the more stable of the Super 794 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,200 shoes and super foam shoes out there. 795 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:57,760 It is obviously lighter than Tempest. 796 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,400 The sidewalls like you said are really make it a really stable 797 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,840 wider base overall mid foot that doesn't narrow too much in my 798 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:06,600 mind because the sidewalls are so aggressive. 799 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,680 That to me makes it probably the most stable option if you want 800 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,120 to do something for like 5K10K race and I have racing this for 801 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,200 5K10K and to be honest with you I like this yellow Rd. 802 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,840 But I would choose this for 5K10K over it just because of 803 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,280 how stable it is and also because the 3mm drop in the 804 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,960 Sealer Rd. is just a little bit tough for for me even though 805 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,640 this feels low drop. So I think Tempest might be an 806 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,760 option if you want a little tempo stuff, but if you want 807 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,400 something a little more 5K10K the the Rocket X2 actually might 808 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:39,200 be a really solid option because it does the guidance really 809 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,720 really well. But there are some potential 810 00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:47,280 options coming out there, some interesting stuff that yeah, I'm 811 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,280 hoping, I don't know, I can't, I don't know how much to say cuz 812 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,240 how much we can say, but I'm really hoping that somebody 813 00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:54,000 comes out with a little faster stability stuff. 814 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,200 That would be nice, cuz we're those of us that kind of like 815 00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,280 that are we're kind. Of left in the GOT. 816 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,320 Left out a little bit, but that's OK All right. 817 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:07,360 So Corey says happy new year. This was a fun question, so 818 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:08,760 watch. I'm going to just throw this at 819 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,200 David, what shoes do you all recommend for someone with a 820 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,720 planner Flex first, Ray. And for since I'm the anatomy 821 00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:16,120 professor, I'm gonna explain this really quick. 822 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,080 So for those who can't see on or listen to this. 823 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,240 A planner flex first ray basically means the long boat of 824 00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:26,040 your first toe is going to sit lower compared to the rest of 825 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,120 your foot. So if you're putting your foot 826 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,720 in in a neutral position, technically your forefoot and 827 00:39:30,720 --> 00:39:33,480 your mid foot are actually going to sit in a slightly inverted 828 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,480 position because that that first ray, the whole length of the 829 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,320 first toe in the in the metatarsal in the long bone 830 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,680 there is going to sit lower. That's what a planner flex first 831 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:47,040 ray is. So if your goal is to get you in 832 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,240 a little bit more neutral position, David, what do you 833 00:39:49,240 --> 00:39:50,760 think might work? And then I'm going to do a 834 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,800 slightly off the wall suggestion. 835 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,480 Yeah, it's interesting, right? Because usually, like if someone 836 00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,080 has great toe stiffness, they have trouble getting an 837 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:00,280 extension. Like a lot of times they'll 838 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,520 recommend something with the toe spring or. 839 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,920 A rocker profile. This is the opposite here. 840 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,400 I mean, if this is truly a planner, flex ray and you have a 841 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,480 contracture is what I'm assuming. 842 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,280 And what I'm picturing like that thing is, is is down there, you 843 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,280 know it's not going to come up. The last thing we want to do is 844 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,000 force it into hyperextension where you're going to just like 845 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,760 get yours going to be uncomfortable. 846 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,000 I mean, that's just going to like taught, like tighten up 847 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,720 everything under your foot, your calves. 848 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,360 I mean, it's basically going to activate the windlass mechanism, 849 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,800 but what? And to clarify for this, so 850 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,840 because a lot of people are knowing planner flex first rate, 851 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,880 the first toe is down. If you Dorsey flex your first 852 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:38,880 toe, it actually further accentuates this. 853 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,160 You don't want to shoe a toe spring because that's going to 854 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,080 push you down even more. That's what happens when you 855 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,240 Dorsey flex the first toe it that pulls that thing down, it 856 00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:49,480 tightens everything up. So that's what David is talking 857 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:50,240 about, but. Yeah. 858 00:40:50,240 --> 00:40:52,080 If we're talking like a night splint or something, that's 859 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:53,680 different. But if it's like, yeah. 860 00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,000 Yeah, this is not like. Dynamic loading on your foot, 861 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,240 like over and over and over again, it's not going to like 862 00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:04,320 that. So that basically takes a lot of 863 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,440 your plated rocker shoes out of the equation, right? 864 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,600 And you almost want, you almost want the opposite. 865 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,960 Like when you think about those shoes, they're rigid. 866 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,160 They kind of get you up into a little bit of extension. 867 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,840 You're basically constantly rolling forward. 868 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,080 If that ray is truly Planar Flex and it's contracted, you're 869 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,640 going to want something a little bit more with a neutral profile, 870 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,040 something that lets you have a little bit more play in your mid 871 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:28,840 foot because you're going to need that. 872 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:30,040 Right. If anything, something that 873 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,440 helps you collapse. Through the exactly. 874 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:34,560 Toe on the media. The medial forefoot needs to 875 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,320 collapse. Like it's the exact opposite of 876 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,960 the Puma forever run which actually like Will Will is has 877 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,840 like almost set like a elevate it does it has an elevated 878 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:44,880 medial side. So this is that you want the 879 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:46,640 exact opposite of the Puma forever. 880 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:49,240 Yeah. So when I think about shoes, 881 00:41:49,240 --> 00:41:52,960 that can help with that. I think of a couple things. 882 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:57,560 I think of the Topo Cyclone too. So you have a little bit of a 883 00:41:57,560 --> 00:41:59,320 softer base. I mean, it's lower to the 884 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,240 ground. So it doesn't feel super soft, 885 00:42:01,240 --> 00:42:04,800 but it has a soft esque feel. But the P backs, it's full 886 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,040 length P backs, there's no plate. 887 00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:10,880 It's a relatively neutral feel and it kind of lets your foot do 888 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,760 whatever you want. And so a flatter geometry. 889 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,800 I mean, yes, there is some toes ring, yes, there is some heel 890 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,240 bevel, but we're not. This thing is not. 891 00:42:19,240 --> 00:42:20,960 Really flexible. It's fairly flexible. 892 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,080 A mile like barely. Your toes are going to be in a 893 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,000 more neutral position for. Sure, and I don't have one on 894 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,320 me, but I also picture shoes like the Saucony Convara. 895 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:34,000 I picture shoes like the Hyperion from Brooks. 896 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:36,520 Just the regular Hyperion. Not the Max. 897 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,480 Just not the Max. Yeah like the the one that's low 898 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,040 to the ground, the white on orange looking one. 899 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:42,840 I mean I have AGPS one right here. 900 00:42:43,240 --> 00:42:46,120 So basically the non stability version of this, I mean I guess 901 00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:47,800 you probably could have the stability version of this, 902 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,480 that's not the end of the world if you did, but I would probably 903 00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:56,040 choose the neutral version. Honestly, those are probably the 904 00:42:56,040 --> 00:43:00,240 main ones that come to mind. Another Another shoe that I 905 00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:04,040 thought about just because it's so soft, Honestly, is maybe even 906 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:05,920 the New Balance. The 1080, The newest? 907 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,520 Gosh, what version is this? The newest 1080? 908 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,960 That's 1080 for soft. What are they on for? 909 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,240 The ten 8910? This is embarrassing. 910 00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:18,160 The latest 1080 that's super soft as a training shoe might 911 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,040 also work. Just 'cause there's no sidewall 912 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,800 on that medial side and the foam is so soft. 913 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:23,920 You are definitely going to be able to. 914 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,440 This is a shoe that I like, but it's I can't run in it very 915 00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,080 long, 'cause it's so soft and not stable. 916 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,040 That might actually be a shoe that's that's going to be 917 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,000 compliant enough that that first toe might actually be able to 918 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:35,880 sync in there and be a little bit better. 919 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:40,920 So my other suggestion is you might not even need a new shoe. 920 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,960 The the thing that I generally suggest for this with people is 921 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:48,320 taking an insole, taking the insole out and actually cutting 922 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:51,600 out the medial section just so. And you're going to need a 923 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,640 couple insoles to do this just to get used to this. 924 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,120 But cutting it out, the cutting the medial side out of the of 925 00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:00,200 the forefoot, so your first token actually sit a little bit 926 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,400 lower relative to the rest of the foot. 927 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:04,920 That's commonly that what they'll do is you'll get an 928 00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:08,240 orthotic where the medial side is a little bit lower just so it 929 00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:09,880 can accommodate that. So your foots in a little bit 930 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,520 more neutral position, a soft shoe can accommodate like that, 931 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,520 like the 1080 or you can just learn how to cut that the inner 932 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,240 part of the insole out so your foot sits in that position. 933 00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,280 You do have to be careful with that because sometimes like the 934 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,280 strobel board in the inner part of the shoe can have some 935 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:24,720 stitching that can be a little bit irritating. 936 00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:27,920 So you are going to need socks, but that is a very simple option 937 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:28,760 going. I like this shoe. 938 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,000 I'm just going to cut the medial side of the insole out. 939 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,240 But the 1080 would also be something I would suggest 940 00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:35,680 because it is going to allow you to collapse in there because you 941 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,480 do need to, you need to be able to collapse, the shoe needs to 942 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,800 collapse of the medial forefoot. But yeah, it was fun. 943 00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,840 All right. So trail one. 944 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,200 So this next one, David's just going to choose trail. 945 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,160 Whatever trail shoe. That or whatever Rd. shoe for 946 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,160 the I'm just kidding. So this is DNS says. 947 00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:56,800 I'm hoping you guys can give me a shoe recommendation, but 948 00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:58,880 listen to your podcast and I'm learning that there are so many 949 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,400 factors to consider beside what feels good for my feet but feels 950 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:02,840 good for your feet. It's also pretty important. 951 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,320 I'm 59 years old, female 59135, looking for a trail shoe. 952 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,760 My current shoe is the Brooks Cascadia and it has served me 953 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:11,000 well. I'm currently rehabbing from 954 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,560 Achilles Sentinopathy. Please listen to my episode from 955 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,520 doing too much too quickly and tight calves. 956 00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,880 Yep that's classic and I'm looking for new shoes for the 957 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:20,200 spring when I can get outside again. 958 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,360 I live in Montana. I mostly run on old Jeep roads 959 00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,040 plus fire roads. Nothing too technical. 960 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,040 I was thinking either the Hoga Challenger 7 for some added 961 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:31,200 cushioning and the forfeit rocker but would also have some 962 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:32,840 lift. Would like to have some lift for 963 00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:36,480 the 5mm draft or something like the LA Sportiva Jackal 2. 964 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,480 Not much of A rocker if that's important, but it has a little 965 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,600 bit higher heel. I'd love to hear your thoughts 966 00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:43,760 and any suggestions. Comments would most be valued. 967 00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:45,880 Thank you all for what you do. And they're currently running in 968 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,160 the Cascadia. Yeah, I'm hearing higher heel 969 00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,840 drop to to unlock at and hopefully something a little bit 970 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,880 more rocker maybe, maybe. I feel my. 971 00:45:55,880 --> 00:46:00,120 Blanking on the What's the the Kraft CTM Ultra? 972 00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,120 Yeah, that was the first shoe that came to my mind. 973 00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:06,160 That's a solid one. Yeah, it's it's rocker, rocker 974 00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,960 10mm drop. So works very, very well. 975 00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,480 And the outsole isn't the most technical. 976 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,480 It's a good Rd. Trail option, but the outsole 977 00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:18,760 traction does absolutely fine for the Fire Rd. stuff that that 978 00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,320 Dina was talking about, That was the first shoe that came to my 979 00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:22,480 mind. And you're going to find a bunch 980 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:24,200 on sale right now, 'cause I don't, is there a three? 981 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:28,640 The of which one CTM Ultra two? I don't think so, no, I don't 982 00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,560 think there's a three. If there is, then if anybody 983 00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,120 from Craft is listening, we would love to try it because 984 00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,160 they're a big. Chance, they just, yeah, they 985 00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,160 just never send it to us, yeah. There is. 986 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,360 CTM Ultra 3. Oh man, that's that's. 987 00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,520 Awkward. I'm just kidding. 988 00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:46,800 I did love the two. That was a nice. 989 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:48,760 That was a great shoe. I really liked that. 990 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,000 One in on our dimensions like, yeah. 991 00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,480 It really is a shame it. Was good win like a number one 992 00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:54,680 award but. Yeah. 993 00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,360 So there is a three I, so I would, I would definitely 994 00:46:57,360 --> 00:46:59,560 suggest that one David are there any other ones that you would? 995 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:01,800 Yeah, I mean, it might be the piece. 996 00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:06,240 Of going to bring a rogue shoe. No, I I read this and like what 997 00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:09,280 I hear is like it's not the shoe. 998 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:14,440 It's like from doing too much too quickly tight caps, like 999 00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:18,560 looking for a new shoe to spring when I can run outside again. 1000 00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:23,800 Like if the Cascadia has been serving you well for a while, 1001 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:28,120 maybe it's not the Cascadia. Which the new one looks really 1002 00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:29,200 cool this? Year. 1003 00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,360 But to be fair, like if I was to look at something that wasn't a 1004 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:38,360 Brooks Cascadia, just for the sake of this question, I think 1005 00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:43,120 the CTM Ultra is a great option. Another one that I was thinking, 1006 00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,400 well actually not really that high of a drop, I think. 1007 00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:48,600 I don't think the challenger is a bad option either, but I think 1008 00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:53,560 something like The Stinson would be solid like solid rocker like. 1009 00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:56,520 But it's not so dramatic to the point where you're like forced 1010 00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:58,960 to roll, like you can still use your mechanics there. 1011 00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,080 Yeah, but the rocker is intense enough that it really, really 1012 00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:03,920 like you don't notice the 5mm drop at. 1013 00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,440 Home so so I think that's and. It's also similar rates to some 1014 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,920 of the some of the original Cascadia, so that shouldn't be 1015 00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:10,840 too big of A. Transition. 1016 00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,200 If you're already running in the Cascadia, especially one of 1017 00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,840 those models that you listed, that's already a pretty heavy 1018 00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:21,600 shoe shoot. Why am why am I drawing a blank? 1019 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,440 I literally had an answer to this earlier. 1020 00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,600 I'm sticking with the CTM. Ultra, but no, I like that. 1021 00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,400 Or the OR the just the normal, the the craft CTM. 1022 00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,040 Even like a sock in the Exodus, Ultra could be good. 1023 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:38,920 Got to be. It's a little lower, drops a 1024 00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:40,680 little. Bit it's what's 4mm? 1025 00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:42,760 But that's Rockford, I think. Yeah. 1026 00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:44,600 OK, that's a little bit better, yeah. 1027 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:50,480 But yeah, I mean, honestly, rehab the Achilles first. 1028 00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:54,040 I think if it's already served you well, like and you like the 1029 00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:57,680 shoe, I don't really see a reason to stray from it. 1030 00:48:58,200 --> 00:48:59,440 Right. Like that's fair. 1031 00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,160 I don't know like I feel like that's the, that's just the 1032 00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,160 clinician side of me talking. I mean, yes, we're treat. 1033 00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:07,560 The pathology. Treat the pathology. 1034 00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:10,400 If the cascade is working for you, Great challengers. 1035 00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:12,320 A great shoe. The CTM Ultra is a great shoe, 1036 00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,120 but honestly, make sure you treat the thing first. 1037 00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:16,840 And the shape. And if you're not running in 1038 00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,360 anything too technical, I mean, what about like a peg trail? 1039 00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,520 I was actually. I was thinking the same Pegasus. 1040 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:22,000 Trails. Actually. 1041 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,600 You got a high drop, a really good amount of outsole, traction 1042 00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:27,400 or even like a ride trail. What is it? 1043 00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,240 The ride 15 TR or ride 16 TR? Yeah, like I forgot. 1044 00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:32,080 Which number on they're on? Yeah, that would also be really 1045 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,360 good, yeah. Those are I think a 16 TR. 1046 00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:36,080 Either one of those would be fine. 1047 00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:37,840 Yeah. Like, it's not, I don't know, 1048 00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:42,280 they, they fit the check boxes, but at the same time just get 1049 00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,800 your Achilles better, you know, like. 1050 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,520 And it sounds like you're making some strides towards that. 1051 00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:52,160 But honestly, like if you take care of your body, your body 1052 00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:53,840 will take care of you at the end of the day. 1053 00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:58,440 And in that situation, let's say you do all the right things and 1054 00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:00,800 then that's happening and you find that what you're looking 1055 00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:02,160 for. Isn't there, like sending 1056 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,200 another mailbag question, I'll be happy to answer it. 1057 00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,880 But I think for right now the clinician side of me is telling 1058 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,440 me just get that calf, get that Achilles, get that lower leg, 1059 00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:12,520 the whole leg, you know, just better. 1060 00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,840 Yeah, I fine. I'm going to give the answer. 1061 00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,320 So I actually just finished analyzing my data and I'm 1062 00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:23,200 writing stuff up right now. So yes, treat the Achilles. 1063 00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:25,400 Don't. Really get anything that you're 1064 00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:28,480 not supposed to release before? It's my information. 1065 00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:29,680 I know what information I can do. 1066 00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:30,680 Whatever. What I want with it. 1067 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,440 All right, don't forget about your hips. 1068 00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:35,280 All I'll say is don't forget about your hip strength. 1069 00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:37,080 That was. That's one of the most 1070 00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:39,000 interesting things I'm seeing from the results. 1071 00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:40,560 So yes, treat your Achilles tendon. 1072 00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:41,800 Don't forget about your hip though. 1073 00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:42,760 I agree. Hold on. 1074 00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,840 Yep. So not me, Matt, but different? 1075 00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,120 Matt asks. I recently saw a doctor because 1076 00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:50,560 of the numbness tingling in my foot as a result of a marathon. 1077 00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,320 I wore contemplated shoes for the race, which, yes, by the 1078 00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:55,560 way, increase the amount of stress through the forefoot. 1079 00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,480 If if it's too stiff for you, doesn't mean it's not a good 1080 00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,040 that increased stiffness. He said that the condition was 1081 00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,960 likely intertarsal intermetatarsal Bursitis and not 1082 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,200 an aroma. I don't know how you 1083 00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:08,920 differentiate. It's very difficult to 1084 00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:11,080 differentially diagnose those by the way, but that's unless you 1085 00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:14,160 have a diagnostic ultrasound. Aside from recommending that I 1086 00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,640 stick to Max cushion shoes, he also told me to try out a 1087 00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:18,760 metatarsal pad. I would like to try and keep 1088 00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:21,360 running and I don't know how long this numbness will last. 1089 00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:23,600 Should I be focusing on wide shoes in the Max cushion 1090 00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:27,200 category to get my forefoot more room, or are normal switch shoes 1091 00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:28,680 OK? I've watched your bits on some 1092 00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:30,760 nerve issues and learned about giving the nerve space, but I 1093 00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:33,040 don't know if Bursitis falls into the same category. 1094 00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:35,160 So we talked about this a little bit before. 1095 00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:39,360 So if this is truly a Bursitis and by the way the inner 1096 00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:43,760 metatarsal Bursa generally when they get irritated, very rarely 1097 00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:46,440 is it just them. It's usually kind of everything. 1098 00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:48,800 It's usually a little neuroma because if you're getting 1099 00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,160 numbness it's because of nerve compression. 1100 00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,800 So the Bursa can swell and put pressure on the nerves and the 1101 00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:56,560 nerves can grow out. So it's it's called a like 1102 00:51:56,560 --> 00:52:00,600 bursal neuroma complex. I'm messing that up, but it's 1103 00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:02,440 basically everything combined there. 1104 00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:05,720 Bursas get irritated with a couple things they can get 1105 00:52:05,720 --> 00:52:08,160 because they're fluid filled sacs that are meant to provide a 1106 00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,240 little space but also reduce friction. 1107 00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:14,360 Excessive friction can cause can irritate them and cause them to 1108 00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:15,960 get inflamed. And there's not a lot of space 1109 00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,480 between those metatarsal bones in your foot, but also 1110 00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:21,560 compression can cause them, it can cause them to get irritated. 1111 00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:25,480 What they don't tell you is it Also excessive tensile stretch 1112 00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:28,400 can also be irritating, which can be really confusing if 1113 00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:31,120 people be going, hey, I'm super spreading my toes out and it 1114 00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:34,600 still bothers me because there is kind of a middle position 1115 00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:36,760 that you're looking for. You're not looking to get into 1116 00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:40,160 the extreme, you're looking to figure out what works well for 1117 00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:42,160 you. So this is a little bit 1118 00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:46,520 confusing because if you add a metatarsal pad in there and the 1119 00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:49,760 issue isn't because you're met your your metatarsals have 1120 00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,280 collapsed, you actually might have more pain. 1121 00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:55,040 I'm not saying the metatarsal pad will cause you pain. 1122 00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:57,840 I'm saying some people get it because you're actually lifting 1123 00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,240 things up and you might get a little bit more friction with 1124 00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:03,840 that. So honestly or compression, you 1125 00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,600 have to see which one of these actually helps because we 1126 00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:08,800 haven't evaluated you. And that's part of our thing is 1127 00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,520 we'll take you through tests and basically go, hey, if I lift 1128 00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,800 your, but if I create a metatarsal lift for you 1129 00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,840 artificially, what happens to your symptoms if I spread your 1130 00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:19,960 toes out, what happens? You said that's part of our 1131 00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:21,800 evaluation. So we don't know that at the 1132 00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:23,560 moment. So our biggest suggestion is 1133 00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:25,640 you're going to have to try and see what makes you feel better. 1134 00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:27,560 You're going to have to try a metatarsal pad. 1135 00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,840 And nice thing is you don't have to get an orthotic specific to 1136 00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,760 this. They sell these, and I have a 1137 00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:36,080 bunch of these things that I always buy on eBay because you 1138 00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:38,280 can do all kinds of fun things with these. 1139 00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,040 But yeah, you can buy metatarsal pads for a couple bucks and put 1140 00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:42,840 them in your shoe and see how you feel. 1141 00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:45,560 If it alleviates your symptoms, that might be great. 1142 00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,200 If it doesn't, that's probably not what you should do. 1143 00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:51,200 If you find it having a little bit more width helps then yeah 1144 00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:54,480 maybe doing some gentle toe spreading and having a wider 4 1145 00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:56,920 foot shoe. You know we you'd like the 1146 00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:58,920 carbon plated shoes. You might do really well with 1147 00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:02,480 something like again the Spectre which has wire 4 foot but might 1148 00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:05,760 be able to do that. You know, I I really want to 1149 00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:09,080 suggest the Ultra Vanish Carbon, but the durability has been 1150 00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,200 terrible on that shoe. Like it's a great shoe. 1151 00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:14,000 It's still faster. That might be an option. 1152 00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,160 The Vanish Tempo also might be a great option. 1153 00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:19,160 There are some faster shoes out there that have wider toe boxes 1154 00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:22,040 that you still might be able to use and yes a lot of them are 1155 00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:25,480 are higher cushion. The Cyclone Tone 2 isn't going 1156 00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:30,240 to be, but you just have to see what works to be honest. 1157 00:54:30,240 --> 00:54:33,080 So I'd say kind of going trimetal tarsal pad. 1158 00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:35,120 Does that work? If not, don't worry about it. 1159 00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:37,480 Try a wider shoe, a topo or an Ultra. 1160 00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,240 If it feels better and it's try one of the more cushion ones, 1161 00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,160 yeah it might be good. Can you still run through this? 1162 00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:46,480 If your symptoms aren't so severe and if running isn't 1163 00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:48,680 making it worse with the add-ons, then yes. 1164 00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:52,200 But if running is making your symptoms worse then you might 1165 00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,400 have to rethink this. You might need to do some cross 1166 00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,640 training for a little bit until the tissue calms down. 1167 00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:01,320 So I know you don't like this and I'm trying not to say the 1168 00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:04,560 phrase it depends but it's we really need the I'm going to say 1169 00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:06,000 this instead we need more information. 1170 00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:07,280 You're going to have to test. A couple. 1171 00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:09,000 I know That's what you were going to say, yeah. 1172 00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:13,520 So you have options, but it might do this. 1173 00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,680 It might. Not need more information. 1174 00:55:16,240 --> 00:55:18,240 We do, we do. It's not. 1175 00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:19,680 It depends as we need more information. 1176 00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:23,120 Normal shoes might be okay if the issue is really the the the 1177 00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,840 collapse transverse arch, which is what the metatarsal lifts 1178 00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:28,920 help with. If that's the problem, normal 1179 00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:31,400 width might be OK and a metatarsal pad might be OK. 1180 00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:35,240 If that's not the primary reason it's driving this then you might 1181 00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:37,680 need a shoe with the wider forefoot and we've talked about 1182 00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:40,960 those and there's some great options in that category out 1183 00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:44,200 there. I I really loving by the way the 1184 00:55:44,240 --> 00:55:46,720 Olymp, the ultra Olympus 2 has been like my go to oh. 1185 00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:48,920 Man, yeah, that's a solid shoe. It's a. 1186 00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:53,200 Solid, but not for racing. But it's been a solid like easy 1187 00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,720 day shoe, like walking and standing shoe. 1188 00:55:55,720 --> 00:55:58,320 But I'll stop talking because I think David has something better 1189 00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,280 to contribute. Dude, I don't know if I do. 1190 00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:02,400 I don't know if I could say that better than you said it. 1191 00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:06,240 I mean, like when I look at this, it's you almost have to 1192 00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:08,320 play Goldilocks and the Three Bears here. 1193 00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:11,800 Because we we did talk about this a little bit off air before 1194 00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:17,040 we came on and as organic as we try to make this podcast be when 1195 00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:19,520 we have mailbags and some of these more complex questions 1196 00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:22,080 like this, it is good to read over it a little bit so that we 1197 00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,200 have some. Time and we still have to 1198 00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:26,560 process it during. And we still have to process it, 1199 00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:28,320 right? Like, this isn't exactly like 1200 00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,160 the easiest question on the planet. 1201 00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:32,440 But you're right. Like we had talked about this 1202 00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:35,120 before, like when we take a look at a Bursa and assuming this is 1203 00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:38,120 truly the Bursa that's irritated, it's going to get 1204 00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:40,680 irritated on both extremes. And that was the thing that I 1205 00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:42,920 was thinking about. I was like, well, let's say you 1206 00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:45,120 widen the forefoot. Let's say you do all these 1207 00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:47,680 things to give it space. There is a chance that it makes 1208 00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:50,760 it worse, right? Like there's more, there's more 1209 00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:54,680 splay, there's more room, and if it's getting elongated and that 1210 00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:58,200 type of force that that pulling on the inside of those joints, 1211 00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:02,080 that toast plate like that might not feel good. 1212 00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:03,280 That might actually make it worse. 1213 00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,920 On the flip side, that could make it a lot better if it's not 1214 00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:10,000 responding well to compressive forces. 1215 00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:13,440 But you could also make the argument that compressive forces 1216 00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:16,280 also feels like it holds it. There's a little bit less 1217 00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:20,400 movement, whatever, like, and if that joint gets a little bit 1218 00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:23,600 less irritated by that, by a construction that does that, by 1219 00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:27,560 all means do it right. And the tricky part is there is 1220 00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:30,720 numbness, right? Like, so that nerve is clearly 1221 00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:36,720 getting ticked off by something and it's just so hard to give a 1222 00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:39,960 concrete answer on that. Because like you said, I like, 1223 00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:42,080 again, I don't think I could have said it better myself. 1224 00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:45,600 But like usually if one of those things is ticked off, there's 1225 00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:48,280 other things ticked off. It's very rarely that these 1226 00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:51,000 things act in isolation. There's a lot going on down 1227 00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:53,480 there. This is something off topic that 1228 00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:56,640 I've had to really try to teach students is because it's very 1229 00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:59,320 easy early on when you're just getting into this stuff to go, 1230 00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,600 oh, it's only one thing and usually it's a couple things and 1231 00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:06,280 being able to understand and go, hey, how do I'm not expecting 1232 00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:09,160 our listeners to do this, but like as clinicians going OK, 1233 00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:11,000 this is how this tissue presents, this is how this 1234 00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:13,120 tissue presents and sometimes they kind of intermix and going 1235 00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:15,400 it is totally possible there's a couple things. 1236 00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:18,080 So at the end of the day, that's when you go on to go, hey, I'm 1237 00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:20,040 going to do what's called a diagnostic intervention is I'm 1238 00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:22,760 going to try something and see does it alleviate symptoms, 1239 00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:26,000 right. So try a metatarsal pad is 1240 00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:27,880 alleviate symptoms. It feels better. 1241 00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:29,720 We're good. Great. 1242 00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:32,080 Awesome, right. You can worry about the 1243 00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:34,480 mechanism that yes, it's created a little bit more stability for 1244 00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:36,480 you actually in some ways can create a little bit more 1245 00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:39,520 compression and friction. But yeah, it stabilizes things 1246 00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:40,800 Great. That makes you feel better. 1247 00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:44,520 Don't worry about the shoe, OK? If you find that doesn't help, 1248 00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:46,520 and you actually find that what helps you, you might need a 1249 00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:47,560 wider shoe. That's it. 1250 00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:49,560 You might find that you need both, right? 1251 00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:51,840 That that tells you that there's multiple tissues going on. 1252 00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:54,480 You need both space and a little bit more structure there. 1253 00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:56,160 Right. And that also gets to a bigger 1254 00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:59,400 question, right, Like what if it's truly intermetatarsal 1255 00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:01,000 Bursitis? What's causing the Bursitis? 1256 00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:04,560 Because the Bursitis isn't just going to be there by right? 1257 00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:07,840 It's not just going to exist. It's not. 1258 00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:10,320 It's not. Yeah, and bursal stuff isn't 1259 00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:13,440 just mechanical, by the way, either are risk factors for 1260 00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:16,400 inflammatory conditions. So it's not just, hey, by 1261 00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:19,920 mechanical, there's also how's your sleep are you're running a 1262 00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:21,520 marathon, right? So you're running, racing, 1263 00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:25,400 running a marathon, right. So that's an inherently 1264 00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:26,840 inflammatory. So we're not trying to freak you 1265 00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:30,240 out, but just going We've just done this long enough to know, 1266 00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:32,320 hey, what what's the biggest factor here? 1267 00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:33,840 And if you could knock that out, great. 1268 00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:36,840 So if nothing responds, it might be something more inflammatory 1269 00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:39,040 and you don't even have to worry about the shoe. 1270 00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:41,360 You just need to go get, make sure your health's in check and 1271 00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:44,560 get some good sleep, eat really, really well, and make sure 1272 00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:45,880 you've caught all the bases covered. 1273 00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:49,440 So yeah, it's a process and you'll get through it. 1274 00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:50,480 Promise. All right. 1275 00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:52,200 Do we have time for one more question? 1276 00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:54,240 What do you? Think up to you, man. 1277 00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:56,080 I think we're right around the hour mark. 1278 00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:58,480 That's just me talking here. Let me see. 1279 00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:01,160 Oh dude, we're at one hour and 26. 1280 01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:04,120 We're exactly at one hour. So that's on you. 1281 01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:07,720 We're going to do one last one because for Ernesto. 1282 01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:09,760 So Ernesto sends us a marathon question. 1283 01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:12,200 And Nurse Ernesto, I'm going to paraphrase a little bit because 1284 01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:14,040 you gave us some great information, You give us a lot 1285 01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:17,080 of information and I'm going to paraphrase this a little bit. 1286 01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:19,720 So it says big fan of your work regularly consult your shoe 1287 01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:21,200 reviews and YouTube reviews. Thank you. 1288 01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:24,320 I'm glad somebody appreciate those 40 year old amateur 1289 01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:26,360 runners fall in love with the sport over the last. 1290 01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:32,800 So running a couple different shoes, socking endorphin speed 3 1291 01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:36,120 for a marathon, Endorphin pro 3. And then the Triumph 21 recently 1292 01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:40,560 when when time wasn't an issue, had some shin pain about a year 1293 01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:43,720 ago. Was told they need to get comes 1294 01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:46,360 to orthotics. Didn't use them actually got the 1295 01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:50,400 sock and a guide 15 and then went to a different PT and it 1296 01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:53,880 everything's been great. 7 to 8 months later was ramping up for 1297 01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:56,280 another marathon and got some poster Typical pain and 1298 01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:59,560 insertional Achilles issues. It was it's been a persistent 1299 01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,320 issue and sometimes it's on the left but it's more consistent on 1300 01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:03,680 the right. By the way tendinopathy is 1301 01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:06,240 usually are bilateral. You just sometimes feel one more 1302 01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:07,880 than the other. It's very normal for you to have 1303 01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:10,440 no symptoms with a tendinopathy because they don't always aren't 1304 01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:13,160 always painful. Actually ran Chicago with 1305 01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:16,120 Achilles tendon pain the entire length of the race, so they're 1306 01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:19,160 of course classic runner. Despite having pain, they are 1307 01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:20,680 signed up for three marathons next year. 1308 01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:23,880 Mount Charleston, which is the primary race and also looking to 1309 01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:25,560 qualify for Boston. Berlin. 1310 01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,720 OK, this is 4. And then oh wait, and then New 1311 01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:29,720 York City. Got it. 1312 01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,560 Trying to qualify for Boston. So they're not looking at Boston 1313 01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:34,920 that year, they're they're trying to qualify for Boston 1314 01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:36,120 that year. So there's three. 1315 01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:38,440 Got it. So they're shopping for a new 1316 01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:39,880 racing shoe and love to hear your advice. 1317 01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:42,320 I'm very confused. I really enjoy the Socket 1318 01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:44,600 Endorphin Pro 3, but one is something probably a little bit 1319 01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:47,280 more responsive and I'm really concerned about my A Race to 1320 01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:50,120 Mount Charleston, which has a massive elevation drop pretty 1321 01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:52,360 much the whole race. I'm looking at the Endorphin 1322 01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:57,080 Elite, the Vapor Fly Three, the Adidas ADI Zero of the Adios Pro 1323 01:01:57,080 --> 01:02:00,320 3, or the Rocket X2. So the concerns are for the 1324 01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:02,600 Elites, as I've heard they're for advanced runners with very 1325 01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:05,080 good running mechanics. The Vapor Fly I've heard from 1326 01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,080 you is very unstable, which is not a great situation given the 1327 01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:10,640 history. Audios Pro 3 slightly lower drop 1328 01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:12,720 seems like it might help for the downhill race and seems like a 1329 01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:14,880 lot more responsive and firm compared to the Endorphin Pro. 1330 01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:16,680 Three What's the drop on the Audios Pro 3? 1331 01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:21,760 It's 6mm drop and then the Rocket X2 which is lower drop 1332 01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:24,720 seems much more stable but feels quite stiff. 1333 01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:29,120 Not sure if that may be an issue for over a three hour race, so 1334 01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:31,440 I'm going to throw this at you David, because you are the 1335 01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:35,360 marathon aficionado right now. So what do you? 1336 01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:36,920 Think, dude, I'm running a track season. 1337 01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:38,240 I don't know what you're talking about. 1338 01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:44,720 Yeah, that's a great question. You know, when I take a look at 1339 01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:47,720 this, I think of a couple things. 26 miles is a long way 1340 01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:50,920 to run. 26 miles downhill is a very long way to run. 1341 01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:54,000 So you're coming off of Mount Charleston. 1342 01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:57,160 I haven't been there. I'm assuming mountain roads. 1343 01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:00,920 I grew up by Big Bear. I know what those mountain roads 1344 01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:01,600 are. Windy. 1345 01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:03,120 You got a lot of downhill coming. 1346 01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:08,200 You never know what the conditions are going to be like 1347 01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:12,520 on a mountain, whether there is like rain or the road's a little 1348 01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:14,760 slick or it's icy. I don't know what time of year 1349 01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:16,480 this race actually is. Revel Mount. 1350 01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:18,080 Charleston look at it's April 6th. 1351 01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:20,960 It is a it is a road race. You have the terrain. 1352 01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:24,600 Yeah, you have the chance for weather, so like. 1353 01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:28,720 Was April in Las Vegas. So is that where Charleston is? 1354 01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:31,000 Yeah, that's where the Mount Charleston. 1355 01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:32,760 I've heard of. Your races I didn't actually 1356 01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:34,240 know. That's where it was, OK. 1357 01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:38,160 Jeez, it 5100 feet elevation. That's a lot. 1358 01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:40,360 Oh, my God. Gosh. 1359 01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:42,880 Oh, that's a lot. Not want to do that. 1360 01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:46,960 OK, don't let her look at that. Don't. 1361 01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:48,560 Don't you want to do it? Go do it. 1362 01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:51,440 I don't like downhill. It'll be amazing. 1363 01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:52,880 You'll have a lot of great views. 1364 01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:55,040 Enjoy the process with that. Everybody. 1365 01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:58,120 Everybody loves CIM. I've struggled at CIM every year 1366 01:03:58,120 --> 01:04:00,160 because it's downhill. I prefer a flat or give me an 1367 01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:01,800 uphill course. I'll be fine, but. 1368 01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:05,800 Anyway, sorry, no. But like all all seriousness, so 1369 01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:08,880 you have the chance for weather given the time of year, you have 1370 01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:10,760 a lot of drop. I'm assuming you got some 1371 01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:12,760 switchbacks in there based on mountain roads. 1372 01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:15,320 You're going to want security. Just just. 1373 01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:17,920 Normal roads, yeah. Like, I don't think 1374 01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:22,600 responsiveness in any way is what you should be looking at 1375 01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:25,200 here. Either way, all those shoes are 1376 01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:26,600 responsive, they all have good phones. 1377 01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:31,600 So regardless of responsiveness, I don't know if that's really on 1378 01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:33,840 the table here. What I would look at as more the 1379 01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:37,080 stability side of things and what's comfortable on your foot. 1380 01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:40,600 And I didn't realize the Audios Pro 3 was at six, so they 1381 01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:42,960 changed that cuz the two was like 9 1/2 right? 1382 01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:45,720 Yeah, and then now it's slower. Yeah, yeah. 1383 01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:49,000 But either way, I mean, honestly, like these shoes are 1384 01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:51,280 beveled out. They have these wide bases. 1385 01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:53,720 They have decent traction for the most part. 1386 01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:58,240 Like when I look at what could be in front of you, I don't know 1387 01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:01,120 if I would choose the endorphin elite or the audio is Pro 3. 1388 01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:03,800 And there's a couple of reasons for that and there and one of 1389 01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:06,680 them is traction, the chance for weather, slick conditions, they 1390 01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:08,960 might slide out on you a little bit if you're turning a lot. 1391 01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:12,000 The other one is with how sharp those toe springs are. 1392 01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:14,280 If you're going down that much downhill, you're going to want 1393 01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:17,360 to stop yourself. I don't know if you want to have 1394 01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:22,080 something that rockered up front on you, like I think you might 1395 01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:24,240 feel like you're falling forward a little too much. 1396 01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:28,520 And I think that rocker profile out of what you've given us on 1397 01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:31,120 the Rocket X2 is probably the most balanced. 1398 01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:33,560 It's a little bit lower to the ground. 1399 01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:37,560 It has better traction. Like out of what I'm hearing, I 1400 01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:40,640 probably would choose the Rocket X2 out of this lineup. 1401 01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:43,600 And even though it's a little bit lower, I mean we're talking 1402 01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:50,240 it's a full length P backs, it's what is it 3534mm give or take. 1403 01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:54,840 Either way it's plenty of foam. It doesn't need to be 40, you 1404 01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:56,040 know. And if anything, it might even 1405 01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:58,320 be more beneficial if it's not 40, if you have that much 1406 01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:03,120 decline. It is 3631. 3631, Yeah. 1407 01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:06,840 So honestly, I out of that lineup, I probably would choose 1408 01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:12,560 the Rocket X2 more from a security standpoint, that's a 1409 01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:14,280 long way to go and that's a lot of downhill. 1410 01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:19,560 So take care of you first, would be my biggest recommendation 1411 01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:22,080 there. I would shoe is going to come 1412 01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:24,480 second what is going to be the thing that's going to get you 1413 01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:28,040 through 26 with that much downhill and potential turns the 1414 01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:31,480 most comfortable and I honestly don't even know if you 1415 01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:35,960 necessarily need a super shoe. I mean that's, I mean there's so 1416 01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:38,240 many other things we could bring up, but I could think of like an 1417 01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:41,040 Adidas Boston or something like that that could be just fine on 1418 01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:44,880 that course. I I I agree with you for the 1419 01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:46,560 most part. I definitely think, by the way, 1420 01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:48,640 their concerns about the Vaporfly, that shoes out. 1421 01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:49,400 Oh, my bad. Yeah. 1422 01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:50,800 Yeah. I didn't even address that. 1423 01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:53,280 Yeah, I didn't address it because I didn't even think 1424 01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:55,280 about it. It was like, like, not that was 1425 01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:57,840 like, that's off the table. That is the most unstable of a 1426 01:06:57,840 --> 01:06:58,880 bunch. It's a narrow last. 1427 01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:01,680 But like, yeah. There's no way this is a good 1428 01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:04,200 issue idea with an Achilles issue and some post hip stuff. 1429 01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:07,040 So that's the Vaporfly 3 is definitely out and I think 1430 01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:13,640 that's a good idea. The Endorphin Elite, I think it 1431 01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:15,880 is definitely a more is an advanced shoe. 1432 01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:19,960 I would say it's actually firmer than the endorphin Pro 3, which 1433 01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:23,120 is interesting for you to say that you want a more responsive 1434 01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:26,480 shoe because I found that shoe insanely responsive like almost 1435 01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:28,960 like I didn't know how to control it at 1st and it was so 1436 01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:33,200 bouncy and I found the Endorphin Elite to actually be something 1437 01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:34,520 that I could control a little bit better. 1438 01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:36,280 It was just crazy fast and super fun. 1439 01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:39,640 But again got you know, you got to learn to control it. 1440 01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:43,280 So to me the endorphin elite is out just because like David 1441 01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:46,040 said, the traction is something that I'm concerned about. 1442 01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:49,880 So if there's weather and I don't know Vegas super well and 1443 01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:52,120 don't know Nevada very well, but if there is a chance for that 1444 01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:54,360 with a downhill course, I probably want a little more 1445 01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:57,400 traction and the heel durability isn't the best. 1446 01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:00,280 I mean I know you've had we've we've had some early kind of 1447 01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:03,080 wear in that area. So I would say Elite and Vape 1448 01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:08,720 flare out unless you really trust the Elite, I'd be leaning 1449 01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:12,840 more toward the Rocket X2 and the Audios Pro 3. 1450 01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:17,120 And so I like the Audios Pro 3 because it's felt more 1451 01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:20,399 comfortable for for me or like and I use that shoe for a lot of 1452 01:08:20,399 --> 01:08:22,600 long runs. It doesn't feel as aggressive to 1453 01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:24,920 be honest with you as some of the other shoes, but it does 1454 01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:28,000 feel a little bit firmer. The phone, the the Light Strike 1455 01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:33,040 Pro Foam is a little firmer, but the Rocket X2 is the most stable 1456 01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:34,920 of those ones, and we just talked about this. 1457 01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:38,960 My only concern is it is, like you said, very stable, but it 1458 01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:41,479 feels a little stiff. If you can break that shoe in, 1459 01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:44,000 that stiffness eases off a little bit and it gets a little 1460 01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:45,040 better. So it sounds like you need to 1461 01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:48,600 wear that shoe a little bit more, but if that shoe is still 1462 01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:52,520 still too stiff, that might be concerned because you're going 1463 01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:55,040 to be landing and slapping on. If you're a heel strike, you're 1464 01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:58,800 going to be slapping onto that forefoot for five for 26.2 miles 1465 01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:01,640 over 5000 feet. So you need to find out what's 1466 01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:03,760 the most comfortable shoe for you to transition in. 1467 01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:06,520 So I'm a little hesitant to suggest the Rocket X2 if you're 1468 01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:07,960 still finding a little bit too stiff. 1469 01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:11,200 If you can break it in and it feels natural and it feels good 1470 01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:13,240 on your long runs and you're testing this stuff out, I would 1471 01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:15,279 say Rocket X2 is the most stable of this. 1472 01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:18,960 But Audios Pro 3 for me is a is a secondary 1 because I found it 1473 01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:21,920 inherently stable with the way the rods and those sole flare 1474 01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:26,120 was set up. And yeah, just the lower drop 1475 01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:28,960 may or may not benefit you, but it's a fairly similar, if just a 1476 01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:30,319 teeny bit higher than the Rocket X. 1477 01:09:30,319 --> 01:09:33,439 So I'd say Rocket X or Audios Pro 3 and see which one is most 1478 01:09:33,439 --> 01:09:36,160 comfortable for you over a couple runs and if the Rocket X 1479 01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:39,359 breaks in. If not, I think Audios Pro 3 1480 01:09:39,359 --> 01:09:42,640 might actually be a fairly good option for that. 1481 01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:46,040 One thing to just meet in the middle there, the Takumi send 1482 01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:48,600 wouldn't be off the table entirely either. 1483 01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:51,680 I don't know if I would. I would not do a 5000 foot 1484 01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:53,319 downhill marathon and the Takumi send. 1485 01:09:53,319 --> 01:09:54,720 I know, man. It's personally. 1486 01:09:55,400 --> 01:09:58,160 It's only a tiny bit less than the rocket X. 1487 01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:01,200 Yeah, but those phones feel totally different. 1488 01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:03,160 I would not. I mean, a lot of people can't. 1489 01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:04,520 I would not take the Jacoby send. 1490 01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:05,600 I don't. Know for a marathon course. 1491 01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:09,200 Flexible if there's rigidity and it's got good traction and Light 1492 01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:11,400 Strike Pro is pretty soft. I don't know. 1493 01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:13,800 I feel like I would say no, because. 1494 01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:16,360 It's more of a wild card choice, I'll be honest. 1495 01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:18,000 No, I would not do that because it's it. 1496 01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:20,560 There's no like it's not stable or stable neutral. 1497 01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:22,440 It's going to throw the way the shoe's set up. 1498 01:10:22,440 --> 01:10:24,440 Is I would choose the rocket X2 over it. 1499 01:10:24,440 --> 01:10:26,240 I'm just Speaking of other shoes. 1500 01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:28,160 I would, I would not do the, Takubi said. 1501 01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:30,480 I would not do that. It's a good shoe, but not I 1502 01:10:30,480 --> 01:10:33,120 don't think it's what's the most incorrect shoe we can suggest. 1503 01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:35,400 The most incorrect. I'm just kidding. 1504 01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:39,200 Oh, you know what the the? Cloud with echo. 1505 01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:40,760 Pretty narrow. Don't. 1506 01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:43,840 Do not. Sharp tail spring not great. 1507 01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:45,800 Now we're just. Crapping on we I made fun of 1508 01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:47,280 drugs. With Echo. 1509 01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:49,800 Like what? That's a nice shoe, but not for 1510 01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:51,880 that. Course not for that course, 1511 01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:53,240 yeah, you would rip the outsole off. 1512 01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:55,480 I would rip the outsole off for like half before I was finished 1513 01:10:55,480 --> 01:10:57,000 with the course. It's not knocking on it, it's 1514 01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:59,040 just a situation dependent decision. 1515 01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:02,320 So I would suggest audios. Put through your rocket X and 1516 01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:05,160 see if those things break in. But we appreciate. 1517 01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:08,040 Under Armour, Velocity Elite. Don't do that. 1518 01:11:10,440 --> 01:11:13,200 So we're going to finally wrap this up after you went almost 12 1519 01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:16,720 minutes over over. We appreciate you listening to 1520 01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:18,720 us as we think through this stuff and occasionally make fun 1521 01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:20,920 of people and make fun of companies, which is just kind of 1522 01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:22,880 who we are, but we still love all the companies. 1523 01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:24,640 Even if they don't love us, it's fine. 1524 01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:27,720 But we appreciate you listening as always and we got has going 1525 01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:29,200 to have some really great contact. 1526 01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:32,040 I'm really excited for what 2024 is going to bring. 1527 01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:34,960 We're going to have great reviews, some great shoes and 1528 01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:37,480 some great guides that are coming out that I'm hoping that 1529 01:11:37,480 --> 01:11:39,360 you all appreciate because we're putting a lot of effort in the 1530 01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:41,040 stuff. As always, we still hope you 1531 01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:43,560 stay as curious as we do and what we're putting on our feet. 1532 01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:46,160 Stay tuned for more. We'll be back very soon.