1 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:12,000 Hello everybody, and welcome to the Doctors of Running podcast 2 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,480 where we, a group of doctors of physical therapy, discuss the 3 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:16,640 art and science of running and the stuff that we put on our 4 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:18,280 feet. Tonight at the round table. 5 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:20,200 We have the founder of Doctors of Running, doctor Matthew 6 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,400 Klein. We have Doctor David Salas and 7 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,960 myself, I'm Nathan Brown, and we are excited to do a this or that 8 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,080 episode together. It's always fun when the three 9 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,680 of us are together to try to put things on the table, table that 10 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:35,520 spark interesting conversations and figuring out where we differ 11 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:37,880 in our opinions, both in personal preference and running. 12 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,880 But also we have some questions today about how we approach 13 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,200 rehabilitation as therapist. So it should be pretty 14 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,640 interesting. However, before we get into the 15 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,320 this or that episode, there's two things we want to do. 16 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:50,720 The first is to remind you that this episode is powered by 17 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,200 Scratch Labs and if you're interested in checking out their 18 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,880 stuff, they do a lot of hydration and have options for 19 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,920 nutrition during running. You can check out their website 20 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:04,440 and use the code Dor 24 for 25% off your first order. 21 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,920 Feel free to go check them out. The second thing before we jump 22 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,880 into the this or that episode is to tackle a topic that is 23 00:01:11,960 --> 00:01:14,720 probably on a lot of people's minds as they're finishing up 24 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,080 their fall races. There's a lot of people doing 25 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,240 fall half marathons, fall marathons, and you're getting 26 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,080 done with this race. And then it's kind of like the 27 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,720 what do I do now? So what I want to engage in with 28 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:29,200 you all, it's talking about how do you best recover from 1/2 29 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,280 marathon? How do you best recover from a 30 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,160 full marathon? And then what do you do from 31 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:35,040 there? Where do you go? 32 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,640 What sort of mental processes do you go through? 33 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,480 How do you move forward? So let's start with the recovery 34 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:42,520 side of things. How do you recommend that people 35 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:44,440 recover from? Let's just start with 1/2 36 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,840 marathon. Enjoy the day first. 37 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,880 Everyone celebrates differently, but I like to, you know, get 38 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,480 with my buddies, hang out, relax, kick back, enjoy the 39 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:01,240 effort that you just put down on the road or trail if you're 40 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,720 doing a trail half. So I mean, I think that first, I 41 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:08,520 think it a lot of this is dependent on I think the 42 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:09,880 experience of the runner as well. 43 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:14,240 Some people, they're training to run the half and like running 44 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,360 13.1 to them is a very big stimulus and they're going to 45 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,800 have to really recover from it. Others that might not be quite 46 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,600 as demanding for them and they can probably turn over and even 47 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:25,640 train maybe even that next that same week. 48 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,240 So it can look very, very different depending on the 49 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:30,960 runner. I think the half marathon is a 50 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,760 much more doable load for the body than the marathon where 51 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,560 pretty much everyone takes some time off after the marathon, but 52 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:37,960 that's not always the case with the half. 53 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,320 I would say I'd very much echo David's comments where when you 54 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,680 think about recovery, yes, we, I want to encourage, we talked 55 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,680 about the musculoskeletal part where obviously maximizing your 56 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,720 nutrition afterwards, your sleep afterwards is really, really, 57 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,960 really key getting, you know, rehydrating, getting recovering 58 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:58,800 electrolytes. I would think the more I learn, 59 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,800 the more I would also encourage that social part about go do 60 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,320 something fun afterwards. Obviously not another race, OK, 61 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,760 but something that if, if social engagements really important to 62 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,360 you, I would really encourage you to think about that. 63 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,880 There's something I'm thinking about with my students right now 64 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,760 as as they push hard there in that part of the semesters are 65 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,560 starting to take midterms and going, you know what, there's 66 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,200 multiple complexities and parts to recovery. 67 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,640 So I'd say the social engagement is a really good one, right? 68 00:03:25,640 --> 00:03:28,320 That can fill your cup in multiple ways. 69 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,200 But the other thing is if you are trying to recover as fast as 70 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:35,160 possible, getting optimal nutrition, not only like within 71 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,440 like that 30 minutes to like 90 minutes after the race. 72 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:40,520 And that means good. And I know people tend to think 73 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:42,200 that and I'm going to say something very controversial. 74 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:43,520 People are not going to like me for this. 75 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,520 I know like people like to say, oh, like hit that beer that post 76 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:48,640 recovery beer. But kind of the more evidence 77 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:52,320 we're seeing on alcohol is that it doesn't really have much in 78 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:53,800 the way of a ton of positive benefits. 79 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,960 So if you're not someone that that does that or partakes in 80 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,600 that encourage you kind of not to focus on Whole Foods, good 81 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,600 nutrition, protein, carbohydrate, and then obviously 82 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:04,960 getting sleep like a nap would be really good. 83 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,120 Making sure you get a good night's sleep afterwards are 84 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:09,720 kind of the key things. What are you doing 1/2 or 85 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,800 whether you're doing a full? As David also mentioned, what 86 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,880 that next couple days looks like is going to depend on where you 87 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,000 are in your training. Half marathons for me have 88 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,880 typically been something that I can recover pretty quick from, 89 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,400 but I'm not going to be doing workouts very soon afterwards. 90 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,960 But usually I can at least do like a moderate run the next 91 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:30,720 day. Like not moderate distance, not 92 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:32,520 moderate pace. It's going to be easy, so my 93 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:34,280 legs will still be sore from going after it. 94 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,160 But yeah, just like easing your way back in, avoid doing really 95 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,000 hard workouts because it's going to take several days, if not a 96 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,800 week or so to be able to even think about doing that. 97 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:45,880 If you're someone that's in that kind of shape where you can 98 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,040 handle like hard efforts like that, whereas no jumping ahead 99 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,640 the marathon, the more we learn about how much tissue damage 100 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:53,640 that leaves, like you really need to think about some time 101 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,680 off and some. And that doesn't mean go hit the 102 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,320 bike hard the next day because that's off. 103 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,440 It means you need some serious rest and time for your muscle 104 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:06,080 skill system to recover. But yeah. 105 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,480 Yeah, I think, I think something that David said that was 106 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,920 poignant was it kind of depends on where you're at your running 107 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,560 journey. If you've ran marathons or half 108 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,480 marathons for the last 15 years, that's very different than if 109 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,200 it's kind of your first or second time. 110 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,160 So I think the first factor that I consider of how you go about 111 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,000 recovery and how much time off you take from running starts 112 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,560 with how much running experience you have, like yearly kind of 113 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,960 chronic volume on your legs. I think the second is how hard 114 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,400 you ran the the half marathon because as David said too, if 115 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,720 you raced it, that's very different than if you ran it. 116 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:41,720 And I think that if you're in the category of somebody who 117 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,720 raced 1/2 marathon, it taxed your musculoskeletal system. 118 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,440 It's also going to be doing things to your other systems as 119 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:50,120 well. The demand on your renal system 120 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,720 and your heart and all these things like there is acute 121 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,320 damaged under those things, not damaged in a bad way, but damage 122 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:56,640 because you worked them really hard. 123 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,040 That's what we do when we work out, we damage our muscles. 124 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:04,440 So I think giving, if you, if you have raced and you're newer 125 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,520 in running, I like to say take one whole week off of running, 126 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,680 do some walking, do some gentle biking, just low impact stuff 127 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,080 for like that week after, but let your body really take a 128 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,440 beat, especially if you're newer in this space and you raced it. 129 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,280 I think that time off is really valuable while you're, while 130 00:06:22,280 --> 00:06:26,120 you're making sure that you hit a lot of nutrition, as you had 131 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,240 said, Matt, and sleep. So I, I think that those are two 132 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:31,640 factors that are important. But you know, like, there's on 133 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,840 the other end of the spectrum, people who race half marathons 134 00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:37,440 all the time are going to be able to jump in and go on an 135 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,480 easy run the next day. But that's not everybody. 136 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,320 I don't know for for me personally, my biggest mistakes 137 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,480 have come by being like, wow, I just worked so hard to gain this 138 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,000 fitness. If I take a week off, I'm going 139 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,560 to lose my fitness and I'm going to go step back and I'm going to 140 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,560 not be able to be where I am. I have been and I've fallen into 141 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:56,520 that trap where it's like, OK, I'm going to actually just try 142 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:58,920 to keep pushing through. And that's when I've personally 143 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,040 ran into injuries as well, is where I don't take just the time 144 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:06,840 to really pull back. Just reflect for a while, let my 145 00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:10,760 body totally recuperate because the type of just from a muscular 146 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:14,640 perspective, after all, out half marathon, you're at least doing 147 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:19,400 Grade 1 tears to your muscles just from a workout, maybe even 148 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:21,080 in some cases a little bit more than that. 149 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,640 And we know that's a three to seven day recovery period. 150 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,480 And if you really, really tax the system, you're going to be a 151 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,440 little bit more than that. So it's just I, I think that 152 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,360 depending on where you're at, if you're very new in the running 153 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,680 and you raced it, getting a week off is going to probably suit 154 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:38,520 you. Well, I don't know what y'all 155 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:43,000 think about about that. I would definitely agree with 156 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:44,080 that. It's something that I kind of 157 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,920 wish I'd been a more aware of. I wasn't coaching Regina during 158 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,960 this time, but when my wife was really going after the, the 159 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,680 ultra marathon Rd. stuff and we'd hit like AI can't believe 160 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:58,840 he did this like a 30 mile run on Sunday and it would be at 161 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,520 7:30 pace. And I just don't know how we got 162 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:03,760 through that. We'd go back to just doing a 163 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:07,080 normal run the next day. And I think knowing kind of 164 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,320 being smarter and knowing what I know now, I've been like, I 165 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,080 would have at least taken a day or so off after that just so to 166 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,200 let the bar. But even though we were getting 167 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,960 used to that distance and doing that frequently, I still with 168 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,240 that kind of thing think retrospectively would have taken 169 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,440 a day or so off the next day just to try to let my body 170 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,840 recover and like actually adapt to some of that training. 171 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,640 Because you don't, you don't get better while you're running, you 172 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,320 get better while you're recovering. 173 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:33,840 And so if you're not recovering adequately, that's where you 174 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,039 start to see the risk for things like injuries as things don't 175 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:41,039 build back up in time for you to to push them more so. 176 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,920 Do you think there's room for an active recovery in that 177 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,320 conversation where let's say you are an experienced runner, you 178 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,120 can run 30 because it's Sunday. You know, that's not a flux. 179 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,240 That's just that's the reality of your training and where 180 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,840 you've been. And the next day, what if it 181 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,200 wasn't 730 pace? What if it was 830 to 9 minute 182 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:05,280 pace? It was 9 minute pace, slogging 183 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:06,640 through of like, why? Why did it? 184 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,600 Why did you make me do this? Regina, that was terrible. 185 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:13,280 Why do I oh wait, I love you so? If you did like a 30 minute 186 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:17,480 shake out just to get the legs moving, like would that be worse 187 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:18,880 than having the day off completely? 188 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:21,480 I think, yes, I think that there's evidence to say that 189 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,240 active recovery is better than just sitting and doing nothing. 190 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,360 I think what that something is is going to so much depend on 191 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,080 where you're at. So I totally agree with you, 192 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,400 David, Like for many people, like I think of you even like 193 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,920 you're going to be able to race, Matt, you 2, you're both going 194 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,600 to be able to race and then go out and run the next day. 195 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,520 Me, I need the time off from a true like race. 196 00:09:40,680 --> 00:09:44,160 Even my 10 Ki made the mistake couple weeks ago and I was like, 197 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,120 Oh my, I was going to take some, I was going to take a whole week 198 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:48,880 off. I was like, I'm going to just do 199 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,600 it right this time because I haven't raced in a long time, 200 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,560 even from a 10K. And then my friend is like, hey, 201 00:09:54,560 --> 00:09:56,760 do you want to run tomorrow? 30 minutes easy. 202 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,120 And I'm like, yeah, I'll be there. 203 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,120 And then it was that run that I started feeling my foot again 204 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,840 and it's fine now. But it was just like I knew that 205 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:07,960 I needed the time based on where I was at. 206 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,960 But the active recovery, I think is mass and it's just choosing 207 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,880 what that active thing is. And that's why for many it might 208 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,480 be a walk or a bike instead of another run. 209 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:20,360 But for others, it's going to be like, yeah, go jog, get that 210 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,000 shake out because it's going to be good for you. 211 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,440 I think part of to add to that conversation, the more I'm 212 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:27,760 talking to people and just kind of questioning training and 213 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:29,640 things like that. I'm someone who's like an 214 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,720 obsessive runner that runs everyday also for mental health. 215 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,000 But the more people I'm talking to going, you know what, I've 216 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,840 kind of moved away from the and as some people do, this is fine, 217 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:40,760 I'm one of them, but other people are going, you know, I 218 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,000 know I can't run every day that actually during normal training. 219 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,080 I've just found that, you know, three to four days a week is my 220 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:47,960 Max and I'm running at a competitive level. 221 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,040 And the other days I got to think about cross training. 222 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,560 So there is variability and I'm going to, I think what we're 223 00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:56,200 hopefully getting at is it encouraging people to find what 224 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,240 works for them and make sure that they train at the level 225 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,840 they're at and not some place that somebody else is at. 226 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,360 Because what we adapt to is very different and how we adapt is 227 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,560 different between people. It's kind of off topic but just 228 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,400 thought. No, I think that's huge. 229 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,800 And then as if we expand this out to the marathon, are there 230 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,120 any other major changes going to have to go as in depth. 231 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:23,080 But I, I think in my opinion, if we expand it out that way, the 232 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:27,040 amount of tissue damage, multiple system impact, it's 233 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,560 just a longer time off or a longer time with modification. 234 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,160 Especially if you're racing it, like I think a lot of people can 235 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:36,960 get through training runs because a lot of their training 236 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,800 runs, some people do go up that high, like 20 to like, David, 237 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,760 you did 22 today, right? Yeah. 238 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:44,520 Are you gonna run tomorrow? Yeah. 239 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:46,920 Yeah. So in that case, like if you do 240 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,120 it as a training run, that's fine. 241 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,760 But when you start going into those, when you do a real race 242 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,440 effort, when you're putting yourself at that 100% effort, 243 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,400 whatever for the distance is that? 244 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:01,160 Yeah, that's not something that you recover from. 245 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,680 I was just talking to Regina about this, that when you race, 246 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:08,600 especially as you get longer, it becomes less something you like 247 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:12,640 adapt to and it's something that you have to recover from. 248 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:14,800 Like a lot of times, like workouts, for example, you can 249 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,040 build on a workout type race. You could build on like many 250 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,160 people that do marathons will do a half marathon kind of like 251 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:25,320 race pace or like, yeah, that's something you recover from that 252 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:28,120 kind of training. But when you race, race, you're 253 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,080 putting everything out in the line and you're, you're 254 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,480 shredding your shredding yourself, as David said. 255 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,400 So I think when you race, race, that's something you need to 256 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,640 think about some time, a little time off afterwards. 257 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,880 If it, especially the especially as you get to the marathon, 258 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,120 knowing that when people put those 100% efforts out there, it 259 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,120 can take 3 months to re truly recover. 260 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,440 Even if you're still running just for the, the damage that 261 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:50,720 caused the musculoskeletal system. 262 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:52,800 Let's think it's bad. It's just you have to respect 263 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,760 the distance. Yeah, not all miles are equal 264 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,120 when it comes to how you run them. 265 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,040 I think my philosophy when it comes to figuring out where are 266 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:07,800 you at on that spectrum is that running is a lifelong sport. 267 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:09,640 And so take your life to learn it. 268 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,520 And I, because you have your life to learn it. 269 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,320 I verge on the conservative side, especially when I'm 270 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,520 coaching athletes, is to pull them to a spot. 271 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:23,240 Hey, this is only your second or third or first ever half 272 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,760 marathon. Let's see how you do with a weak 273 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:27,920 recovery. And then next time we come 274 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:29,840 around to putting down a full race effort. 275 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,480 If you recovered completely fine from that and there were 276 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,200 absolutely no issues with injury or niggles whatever, then we 277 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,520 pull and we can start to run earlier again and start to build 278 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:41,400 in the next phase of the training. 279 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,120 But you know, it depends on where you're at, right? 280 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,560 Like if you are new into this and I would even consider 281 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:49,080 myself, especially for the marathon, I only have basically 282 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:53,680 I would say 2 1/2 under my belt. I did like a 24 mile race around 283 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:58,240 a trail in our community and I still, I am still I feel like 284 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,400 learning. What do I need afterwards to 285 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:05,080 recover right from this stuff? And take your life to learn it. 286 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,680 And don't be afraid to be a little conservative. 287 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,800 If you want to avoid something just like dumb happening on the 288 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,040 tail of just breaking down your body because that's what you 289 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,240 trained for is to break it down as much as you can to get to the 290 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,880 goal that you set for yourself, go ahead. 291 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,760 Can I add something that is slightly off topic, but it's all 292 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,640 not the same thing of thinking long term. 293 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:27,840 And this is to address all the listeners who are nice set to 294 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:32,200 send us messages that we don't always get to that we try our 295 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,960 best. We get a lot of questions going, 296 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,600 Hey, I have X injury, I've got this race coming up. 297 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:42,200 Should I do it? And I think the more experience 298 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,760 I get, the more I'd think along Nathan's view of like, if, if 299 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,240 you, if you're really asking this question, you should 300 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,480 probably skip it. It's just not like to me at this 301 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,560 point, it's not worth it. But like the focus on longevity, 302 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,480 the knowing that there's always another race, always in their 303 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:01,080 time. I, I would really encourage 304 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,240 skipping these things. If you are injured and you're 305 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,200 running mechanics are not where they need, they're not 306 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,320 normalized and you're going to be limping your way through the 307 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,480 race. I, I'd really encourage you to 308 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,000 save it for there's always another race, right? 309 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:18,320 But, and I don't think the risk is worth it to go, hey, I'm 310 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,680 going to push through this and then potentially have even 311 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,520 longer that I have to recover now that I push this already 312 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,960 injured tissue to a whole nother level that I have to recover 313 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:28,760 extra from. So when in doubt, if you have 314 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:30,760 doubt, skip it. It's not worth it. 315 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,320 The last question I have on this or David, did you have 316 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,080 something? I would just say to weigh the 317 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,600 risks. I feel like for the most part, 318 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,560 90% of the time I agree with you. 319 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,320 But sometimes someone's in the absolute shape of their life and 320 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,640 they're racing for a standard or something where they have a 321 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,440 deadline and that next race isn't going to be there. 322 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:54,360 And so sometimes they they have to weigh that themselves of what 323 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,080 they're willing to see on the other side of it where maybe I 324 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,320 come out OK, maybe I don't come out OK, but you leave it out 325 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:04,320 there and. Are we talking about like I'm 326 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,200 talking about the recreational runner? 327 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,080 Are you're talking about like pro collegiate stuff like that, 328 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,520 right? But there's also Boston 329 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,360 qualified that too Boston, I mean, because you could make the 330 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,360 argument that someone's like, well, I have to have it done by 331 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,680 this window, and so I can apply to run it next April. 332 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,920 I have X amount of time to recover, you know? 333 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,200 And if they are truly in the shape of their life and they 334 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,760 feel really confident about doing it, like they. 335 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,360 Yeah. Or it's like I'm going to turn 336 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,320 40 and my goal is to run a marathon by the time I'm 40, and 337 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:37,680 if I don't do this one, I'm not going to. 338 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,880 It's very important to. Downplay people's goals. 339 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,520 No, no you didn't. You did this. 340 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,280 We also agree with you 90%. We agree with you 90%. 341 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,880 Yeah, there's always exceptions. Yeah, Circumstances that 342 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,520 sometimes it's just up to the person to weigh. 343 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,720 That's very fair. Weigh those risks, you know, I 344 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:56,880 mean, and sometimes it's not worth it, right? 345 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,640 They go for it, they decide to do it, and then they just get 346 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:00,520 hurt. They don't finish. 347 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,000 And now everyone's kind of at a loss. 348 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:03,680 But sometimes they do. It's fair. 349 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,880 They feel great. Maybe their body doesn't. 350 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:07,440 But like, they did it. Yeah. 351 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:09,760 And they're glad they did it. And now they can come back 352 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,400 around for whatever it is they're trying to go do what 353 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,560 they set that up for, so. Last thing on this topic is 354 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,359 outside of the physical, how have you personally moved 355 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:22,560 forward mentally after a big race where either it went the 356 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,200 way you wanted it to or it actually didn't go the way you 357 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:26,800 wanted to? And what advice would you have 358 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,280 for folks and moving forward well after something that you 359 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:35,520 trained so hard to get to? It's going to sound like almost 360 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:40,200 like an anti answer, but the, the thing that I always think 361 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:46,240 about is to have a short memory and that's for good or for bad. 362 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,760 Because at the end of the day, you're going to wake up tomorrow 363 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,200 and it's the next day and the race is in the past and whatever 364 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:53,760 you have in front of you is in front of you. 365 00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:58,880 And so it's like you, if it's a bad race, you can give. 366 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:00,600 It's OK to be mad and frustrated. 367 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,880 That's, that's OK. You obviously care about it. 368 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,920 You know, give yourself a little bit of time to be mad about it 369 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:10,360 and then move forward. And some people, like, they do 370 00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:13,400 really well with having a literal time window to be mad or 371 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,720 happy about things. And then they're like, OK, now I 372 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,160 can enjoy the rest of the day. I've been mad about it. 373 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,800 I can, you know, and it's usually more, yeah, it's usually 374 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,520 more on the mad side of things, but on the good side of things 375 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:26,040 too. It's like at the end of the day, 376 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:30,120 it's like you see this a lot with people that do something 377 00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:32,960 big in sports where they go and they hit some monumental thing 378 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,040 and then they're like, well, what now, right. 379 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,880 Like I, I did it. I'm still doing my sport. 380 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,800 Like like it's kind of like finding out why and like really 381 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,680 what you, why are you doing it? What what are you out there for? 382 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,960 And if that was it, then maybe, I don't know, like if that, if 383 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,600 that's truly was the peak of someone, then maybe they retire 384 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:51,920 or something. But not to go extreme with it, 385 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,760 but it's usually to have a, just kind of a short memory. 386 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,240 Give yourself some time to feel whatever you want to feel. 387 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,400 And then you can always reflect on it too in a day or two. 388 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,560 I, I, I'm not a big fan of same day reflections because you 389 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,680 obviously have a lot invested in it and there's a just a 390 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,200 whirlwind of emotions, whether it's positive or negative. 391 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,080 It doesn't really do you much good to dwell on it. 392 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,960 And so just to try and be relatively objective with 393 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,760 yourself and kind of it's almost like you're sitting someone else 394 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,160 down to be like, OK, well let's talk about this and let's see 395 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,680 see what you think. You know, I'll tell you what I 396 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,920 saw and what I thought and we'll go from there. 397 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:35,440 And to have that reflection with yourself, but at a time when you 398 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,080 are at a more neutral state to do it. 399 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,200 And then from there, you can take what you've learned or 400 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,480 haven't learned and apply it towards the future in whatever 401 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,760 that looks like. Whether it's, you know, if 402 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,800 you're doing a season, you know that obviously you have to turn 403 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,440 it around within, you know, a couple weeks of whenever your 404 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,080 next race is or even a week. Sometimes you race multiple 405 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,800 times in a week if you're doing a track season as a high 406 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:03,480 schooler or a college athlete, or if it's like a marathon and 407 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,880 you're doing a half marathon, building up to a marathon about 408 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:07,080 4:00-ish weeks out. OK. 409 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,400 So I did this and this that I didn't like. 410 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:10,680 I did this and this that I liked. 411 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,880 How can I clean that up for when the big day comes so that I can 412 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:16,960 have as smooth of a process as possible? 413 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,880 And if it was your a race, you know, and that was the thing 414 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,080 that you were training for and peaked for and did it, well, you 415 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:28,600 have plenty of time to reflect, you know, so there's no like, I 416 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,200 don't know. I, I, I think to have a short 417 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,880 memory, but then to you can always come back later and 418 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,640 review it, but I don't think the day of. 419 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,960 I'm a big fan of short memory, you know. 420 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,200 I I agree with so much. I think I've heard it from a lot 421 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,680 of different athletes and in, in different realms, not just 422 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,640 running and then other people in like mental sports performance. 423 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,480 They talk about the 24 hour rule. 424 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,400 I know you said like some people put a time stamp. 425 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,920 That's when I've heard a lot where it's like feel all the 426 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:02,480 things, whether good or bad for 24 hours and then begin to move 427 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,320 forward. But I, I think that being able 428 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:09,080 to on this side of on this side of the recovery of kind of the 429 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,840 mental moving forward. I think it starts way before 430 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:17,520 even your training block begins. It starts with where running 431 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,560 sits in your life, in your identity and figuring out how 432 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,240 much is this one race going to impact me, making sure that one 433 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:30,560 event is in its rightful spot in your like value and worth as a 434 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,320 person. That might sound extreme, but I 435 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,480 think I think it's easy for it to trickle into like putting so 436 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,120 much weight on this one day that when it happens, it can take you 437 00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:41,120 over. So if you can do enough work on 438 00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:44,320 the front end and like right size, all of the things when it 439 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,640 comes to running, it's going to help you to move forward in a 440 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,640 healthy way with the good or the bad. 441 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,440 Because I think the risk of the elation and feeling good is 442 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:52,760 like, all right, I'm going to keep training. 443 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:53,800 I'm in the best shape of my life. 444 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,080 I crush this. I'm going to go, I'm going to 445 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:56,600 go, I'm going to go. And that's where you could run 446 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,880 into some of that injury. And on the reverse side, it's 447 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:00,960 just like beating yourself up for a bad thing. 448 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,000 Like, feel it. Like, yeah, you didn't do what 449 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,080 you wanted. Oh no, it's on the flip side of 450 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,520 that. You feel invincible the day of 451 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,200 and you're like, I'm going to get after it. 452 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,360 And then you get up the next day and you feel like a train hit 453 00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:14,000 you. And then some people that is 454 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,480 actually very defeating psychologically where I thought 455 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,360 I was doing well, like why am I not feeling good? 456 00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:21,160 And it's like, well, you just put an all out effort out, my 457 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:22,960 guy. Like, you know, you were yeah, 458 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,920 you you earned to feel like that, like that was a genuine 459 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:27,000 effort. But for some people, they 460 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,400 struggle with that. Like some people they need, they 461 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,600 feel like they need to feel good all of the time. 462 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,280 And that's just not the case after a race. 463 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,840 And sometimes you after your best races, you can feel 464 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,880 invincible the day of. But like it comes back around. 465 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,920 Totally. Matt, do you have anything to 466 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,880 add on this end? No, it's reflecting. 467 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,480 I ran my first cross country race in a very long, like 468 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,160 probably over. Yeah, I got crushed. 469 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,920 I didn't see that. I'm glad you didn't see it bad. 470 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:00,480 I mean, I wasn't prepared for it all. 471 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,200 I don't think it was. I was like, I'm going to throw 472 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:03,800 myself in here. And then like got really into 473 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,000 like that competitive mode and just got wrecked and had to come 474 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,800 to terms with a being in a very competitive part of the United 475 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:11,320 States when it comes to like running. 476 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,440 And also for the first time in a long time, having to deal with 477 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,480 finishing in the back half of a race, which was I, I definitely 478 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,280 all the things that we talked about today, except not the, 479 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,880 none of the positive things, but all the negative things being 480 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,840 like, I think I'm going to quit racing. 481 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,280 And I just, you know, it's not part of what I want to let go of 482 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:32,920 this part of my identity and which I, I like, totally wasn't 483 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,080 prepared for anything remotely cross country. 484 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,280 I chose the wrong shoes. I got super, I was going to use 485 00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:41,680 like a trail super shoe and then freaked out and pulled the 486 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,360 Takumi scent out because like I need the lightest thing I don't 487 00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:45,680 like. And then it just didn't have 488 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,480 traction and fell apart. Plus not, you know, some pretty 489 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,640 significant things happened this week. 490 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,400 Very negative that I've been able to have awesome support 491 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,920 from the faculty at George Fox for that really. 492 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,720 But it took a huge piece of took a chunk out of me. 493 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,720 So yeah, there was a lot going on, but I definitely had that 494 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,320 negative spiral. And Richie was like, oh, why are 495 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,440 you being like a sour puss? And so I kind of got, I kind of 496 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,800 had to come to terms and like this. 497 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,320 I put way too much pressure on myself. 498 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,160 Just let myself be upset for a little bit. 499 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,200 Woke up this morning, I'm like, it's a new day. 500 00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:21,320 Like, why? Like, yeah, that makes sense why 501 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,760 that happened. If I want this, I need to train 502 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:25,920 for this and I'm going to do the whole Stumptown series for 503 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,600 anybody who wants to come kick my butt at the other ones. 504 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,880 I was also really mad that like all this stroller training did 505 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,120 not like transfer at all to like running cross. 506 00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:38,160 Like still got crushed. No, not at all. 507 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:40,760 That's the opposite of. Stroller. 508 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,440 I thought it'd be so much stronger. 509 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:43,760 No, it turned out. Yeah, it didn't. 510 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,960 Transfer it crosses his skills. They don't have it like being 511 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,480 able to turn and be in grass and go with ups and downs, 512 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,400 especially like in a when it's real tight, like innate. 513 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,360 I don't think you've never run a cross race, have you? 514 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,320 Nope, I've ran on 2 cross country races before or on 2 515 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,200 cross country courses. It's just very different, you 516 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,640 know, And everyone gets so bunched up and, like, you're 517 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,480 just basically trying not to fall for a couple miles. 518 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,040 Yeah. And then eventually it only got 519 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:11,720 stuck. But it's like, yeah. 520 00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:14,040 By that time it's too late 'cause you've already gone out 521 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,840 hard, been boxed up and then it. Will pull up. 522 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,480 So, yeah, this morning I was like, you know what I am? 523 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,000 Where'd you go? I don't even know what it was. 524 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,480 We started on grass, on muddy grass and went up the steep hill 525 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,520 and like bunch, I have no idea. It was like 558. 526 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,240 That's not that was not. Yeah, but. 527 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,480 My favorite cross stories are like, Oh yeah, we went out in 528 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,360 like 440. Can you even run that for three? 529 00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:41,240 No but it's an 8K and it's like people just die so hard. 530 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,720 I was that person, except not like 2 minutes. 531 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,360 So yeah. And then this morning I woke up 532 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,280 because I was just like, oh, I'm just not going to do the rest of 533 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,440 the races like they can keep their the rest of the money for 534 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,160 the series that I paid for. And then I was like, no, I'm 535 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:56,280 not. I'm going to do the whole thing 536 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,240 and I'm going to have a better attitude about it, even though 537 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,680 I'm probably going to be sour puss next time after I get my 538 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,720 butt kicked too. But it's going to make me 539 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,520 better. And it's it's just trying to get 540 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,160 used to getting into things and being patient and looking at 541 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,920 that long term thing. So I definitely agree. 542 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,840 Just let yourself be upset and like, it's OK. 543 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,560 It means you care even if you didn't prepare for it and you 544 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,000 didn't deserve to do well. But yeah, I think long term, 545 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,680 remember that that kind of stuff that like it, it's those are 546 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,640 those experiences are character building. 547 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,120 So it was good. Well, we are going to move into 548 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,320 our segment on this or that. So we have things related to 549 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,680 shoes, we got things related to physical therapy. 550 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,080 So here we go, the first this. Wait, can I add a this or that? 551 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,040 Sure. Oh gosh, yeah. 552 00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:46,160 Let's start with it. Just to build off of what we 553 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,720 just said, OK, assuming you're not that experienced with or or 554 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,120 experienced both cross country 5K or track 5K with a full 555 00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:57,400 field, you know, like so it's going to be a busy track. 556 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,200 It's not going to be like 10 people, it's going to be like 20 557 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,120 to 30. After how bad I got wrecked 558 00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:04,280 yesterday and the fact that I'm doing a lot more stuff on the 559 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,040 track, probably a track 5K to be honest. 560 00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:12,440 All right. I've never actually raced either 561 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,240 of those, but I think I'm more intrigued. 562 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,720 But this is more like cool to be honest. 563 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,360 I mean, if you have the right mindset going in. 564 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:27,920 Yeah, it's a tough one for me. I think I, oh man, I might go 565 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:33,120 cross 5K right now. Track, track 5 KS are hard. 566 00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:36,040 They're both hard. But I think with track, the 567 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,640 thing that's hard is when you have a a heat of people and 568 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,840 everyone can all run the same time and it's just like this 569 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,240 thick pack and sometimes the strings, it can be very hard 570 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,640 with all the like kind of zigzagging, kind of the pushing 571 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,240 like in cross. I feel like it does break up. 572 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,400 It almost always does like halfway through the race. 573 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:59,800 And I think there's a little bit more like the first mile kind of 574 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,960 always floats by where like I think in track you you're very 575 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,400 cognition of your splits because you see them every 200 and 400 576 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,720 meters at most races. And so there's always this idea 577 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,880 of like math going on in your head, like am I on pace? 578 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,840 Am I not on pace? And like crosses a little bit 579 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,920 more true racing where you don't really get those numbers unless 580 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,200 you're at the miles, yeah. Crosses. 581 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,720 I can't tell what's pace is. Can I just not die? 582 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,520 Can I just hold on? Where's the finish line? 583 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:25,920 Yeah. Especially here's the finish 584 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,360 line. Is it the Oh my gosh, I'm almost 585 00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:31,640 there? That's what seems intriguing. 586 00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:34,440 Great. Well, here's our other our next. 587 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,560 Statement is. No longer first first on our 588 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:41,360 list, but here we go. A shoe that people have used a 589 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,720 lot and that all of us have recommended to folks for certain 590 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,720 conditions was the Endorphin Shift series, which is no longer 591 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:49,480 around. So the first this or that is 592 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,160 what is the better replacement for the Saucony Endorphin Shift, 593 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,800 the Glide Ride Max from ASICS or the Brooks Glycerin Max I feel. 594 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,960 Can I answer that? Yeah, go for. 595 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,560 It no, no, you don't get to answer. 596 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,000 Yeah, of course you can. Answer like either one of them. 597 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,480 Like personally the Glide ride Max to me was like, OK, this is 598 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,160 interesting, but it didn't continue on with where the I the 599 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,880 glide ride was. It's a different shoe where it's 600 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,680 not as stiff. Yes, it is still rocker. 601 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,720 It's not as stiff. It kind of lost that really 602 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,880 stiff rocker profile that the previous ones were known for. 603 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:30,400 So they feel like that kind of really takes it out the you said 604 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,400 the Hyperion. Glycerin Max No. 605 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,280 What was the other one? What did I just say? 606 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,760 Glycerin Max. Oh glide red Max. 607 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,880 I don't know why I heard Hyperion Max too. 608 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:46,960 OK, I so having just done 11 in the Glycerin Max, I'd probably 609 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:48,600 say that's much closer to the two. 610 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,120 It's the taller ride. It's stiffer actually that I was 611 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,440 talking some smack about that heel bevel. 612 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,440 It was not bad this morning. It was great on a long run. 613 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,120 Yeah. So I would say that the Glycerin 614 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:05,360 Max Max, which I was pleasantly surprised with this morning, not 615 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:11,360 nearly as light as the shift, but definitely got that nice 616 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,240 stable. It's definitely softer. 617 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,440 I wouldn't consider it for workouts though. 618 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,200 But yeah, thanks for letting me talk through this while that. 619 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,240 Yeah, I would definitely say the Glycerin Max, but it's still not 620 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,240 that Shift 3 replacement. Yeah, I'm in the same boat. 621 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,880 And so my answer is both and it depends on what you want because 622 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:34,120 the shift is a high stack rockard shoe, but it was always 623 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,360 kind of a stiffer Eva kind of a feel. 624 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,440 If you want that like Eva kind of a feel, the Glide ride Max is 625 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,160 going to be closer to that. But the what? 626 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,960 What's up? Didn't it have the like piba it 627 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,240 does insole? Or like I'm just saying, what 628 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,080 was the under foot shift or the yeah, the. 629 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:52,560 Shift did. Am I nuts? 630 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,040 Is it? It was. 631 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:55,120 Just the insert. Yeah. 632 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,400 But it was like more of like a Eva rocker. 633 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,640 Yeah. And so like if you want like 634 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,280 that feel, the Glide Ride Max has that. 635 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,880 But if you want the stiffer rocker of it, because the Glide 636 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,760 Ride Max has a little bit more flexibility than the previous 637 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,520 Glide rides. So if you if you really want 638 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,320 that stiff rocker part of it and you're OK with going softer on 639 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,120 the foam because that Glycerin Max foam is on the softer side, 640 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,360 then if it's a geometry thing, Glycerin Max, if it's a feel 641 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,840 thing, then I would say Glide Ride Max. 642 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,400 Yeah, I, I have some similarities with you there and 643 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,360 a couple differences. But I, I think for the folks who 644 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,600 want the stiffer forefoot and for the people who I was 645 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,720 recommending the shoe for the sake of like Hallux rigidus 646 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,800 where the big toe can extend. I think that the glide rod or 647 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,120 sorry, the Glycerin Max is the better option because there's 648 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,360 less toe springs. So it's not putting the toe into 649 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,320 extension in the 1st place and it is a little bit stiffer just 650 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:51,880 because of how much foam is here. 651 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,160 However, I think that from a ride perspective and kind of 652 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,600 what feels a little bit faster is the glide ride Max. 653 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,600 And so I think you get a little bit more of the like long run 654 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,080 training feel that the shift gave you in the glide ride Max. 655 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:11,320 But for the for the purposes of kind of working around, if you 656 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,480 have limited mobility in the big toe, I think that the Glycerin 657 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,080 Max is a better choice. However, the rocker is quite 658 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,200 different on the Glycerin compared to the shift because 659 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,080 it's such a late stage rocker. The apex, it doesn't come till 660 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:28,800 right up where that first toe joint is, where is the going 661 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,360 back to the the shift, It started much earlier. 662 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,920 Same with what you're seeing with the glide ride. 663 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,440 You have an earlier stage rocker which just gets you rolling a 664 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,360 little bit earlier. So I do think that it's a 665 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,280 potential limitation if you don't get along with a later 666 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,920 stage rocker. And I also, I feel like I need 667 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:51,960 to say this, I had a really tough experience testing out the 668 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:56,120 ghost Max 2 and a lot of the feedback that I gave of what I 669 00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,200 wanted it to be to be a running shoe, they actually put into the 670 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,640 glycerin Max. It doesn't, it's not fully there 671 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,040 because there isn't like a performance element to either 672 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,400 shoe, I would say. But I, I will say that the foam 673 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,200 feels like a running shoe. The geometry is a little bit 674 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,880 shored up. The softer foam allows that the 675 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,360 heel transition to be a little bit more smooth and not clunky 676 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,840 like it was in the Ghost Max. So Brooks did a much more 677 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,720 pointed job at making this 1A running shoe compared to the 678 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:32,120 ghost Ghost Max 2, which wasn't pleasant to run in. 679 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,480 Anything else to add on this one or another shoe that comes into 680 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,880 your mind that is a better replacement for the Endorphin 681 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,640 Shift? This has been a question to be 682 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,680 honest for a while. I don't have an answer. 683 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,520 I'm curious, David, do you have anything shift like that comes 684 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,880 to mind? It'd have to be give or take 685 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,680 somewhere in that 35 to 40 range, stiff rocker, a little 686 00:33:52,680 --> 00:34:02,520 bit wider base shoot man, and it'd have to be kind of a little 687 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,160 bit more of a of a stiffer kind of like that four foot rocker 688 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:11,679 has to be pretty relevant. I mean, just saying that the 689 00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:15,040 Glide Ride series generally speaking would would match that. 690 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,120 You know, obviously they made the changes with the new model. 691 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,280 I'd have to think about that one and get back to you, honestly. 692 00:34:24,639 --> 00:34:28,440 I think, I think for me, like I think the glide ride is is 693 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,280 pretty close. It is just a little even though 694 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,639 there's still a plate. The softer foam makes it a 695 00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:36,239 little bit more flexible. But within Saucony's line up. 696 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,719 I said this when it came out, but I think that the closest 697 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,600 thing to a shift replacement is the Canvara Pro where it's got a 698 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,239 stiff rocker because of the plate. 699 00:34:44,679 --> 00:34:48,840 It's not super soft, even though it has like a layer of Peeba. 700 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,440 I think that might be but it's it has some toe spring and it's 701 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,400 much higher stack so it it doesn't fully replace it. 702 00:34:57,720 --> 00:35:00,280 Can I throw one out there that I actually haven't tried, but some 703 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,360 of the specs match and I'm probably going to mispronounce 704 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,160 the name, so accu people are making fun of me in the 705 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,480 comments. The topo Atmos thoughts. 706 00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:15,160 It's different. I never ran in it so I just 707 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:16,480 yeah. Thoughts. 708 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,920 David, you did right. Yeah, it's the Eva is a little 709 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,920 bit softer. The toe springs pretty gradual. 710 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,920 It's a rocker. It is pretty wide like like you 711 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,560 said, on paper it's it looks pretty similar. 712 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,800 I'd say it's just a little bit more spongy through the heel. 713 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:34,640 They kind of have a little bit of a crash pad there. 714 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:39,280 And then it forefoot is a little bit more flexible. 715 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,600 It's still stiff, but it's it's kind of like the Glide Ride Max 716 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,520 in that way. But it's not not a bad one. 717 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,120 And it's actually that's that's one of the closer things that 718 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,040 that I can think of. Yeah. 719 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:53,440 Well. We're going to move on to our 720 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,400 next one and I think this is going to be a tough one to 721 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,280 answer. However, let's do our best. 722 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:05,040 This or that, soft or firm shoes, that's all we got. 723 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:09,160 That's the prompt. Considering I hurt my foot with 724 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:10,720 soft shoes, I'm going to go firm. 725 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,440 Yeah, I, I actually go firm too. And I what's hard about this 726 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,080 question is it's a spectrum. Right. 727 00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:19,840 And at what point does the shoe cross from soft to firm? 728 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,640 But when I think about the shoes I like to train in, it's never 729 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:31,200 the Max soft ones like the New Balance, more V5 or the 1080. 730 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,120 Like I do not gravitate that way. 731 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,880 My voice is disappearing. I am so sorry. 732 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:43,320 Not sure why but the shoes that I gravitate toward are have a 733 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,560 little bit of firmness to them. They would still be considered. 734 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:50,600 Five years ago. I don't know to a lot of the 735 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,960 shoes that we ran into 10 years ago or even five years ago, but 736 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,360 from the spectrum of wickets, wicked soft to more of that 737 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,240 moderate firm I go. I go on the form end of the 738 00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:03,040 spectrum because I get foot stuff too. 739 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,760 I just don't like that unstable platform and feeling lost in the 740 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,280 shoe. What do you say, Matt? 741 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,600 So I have an interesting conundrum is that I have noticed 742 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:14,200 that the softer a shoe is advertised, the less soft it 743 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,720 feels to me. So, and I think the reason is 744 00:37:17,720 --> 00:37:19,480 because I get reflexive stiffening of my lower 745 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,280 extremity. So we've talked about the study 746 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,280 from Kumala and others talking about the fact that, you know, 747 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,720 more cushioning doesn't necessarily mean more protection 748 00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:31,680 where the softer you go and the more material as you land 749 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,520 because your body already has lots under it. 750 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,920 It's shifts from being focusing on shock absorption to 751 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:38,640 stability. And a lot of times that means 752 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,840 the joints you will go through less range of motion because 753 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,320 you're stiffening up to try to create the stability that's not 754 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,680 under your foot and ankle. So that's where I felt like the 755 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:50,360 glycerin Max is soft when I was walking, but as soon as I was 756 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,880 running, I'm like, this feels weirdly firmer than I would 757 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,240 expect. And I'm noticing that with a lot 758 00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:58,440 of shoes. So I'm someone who's going to 759 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,320 gravitate towards firmer shoes, Obviously not too firm. 760 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,320 I still want like, especially if I'm racing, like I want like 761 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:08,040 that, that nice bounce, but I don't want it to be mushy 762 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,480 because I can't handle that. And the mushier it is, the more 763 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,400 it feels firm, which is interesting. 764 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,200 It's like I have this like there's this peak. 765 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,720 There's like middle level where I feel shoes are softest and the 766 00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:19,600 softer they go, they weirdly start to feel firm. 767 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,480 And then when I get firmer, I'm like, OK, so that's something 768 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,320 I've been experiencing recently. So yeah, that was a long way of 769 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:26,840 saying probably on the firmer end. 770 00:38:27,240 --> 00:38:31,520 I will say too on mine it's like the A6 GT 2013. 771 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,200 It's been working really well for me and I I'd probably say I 772 00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:40,040 mean on the cushion and the firm out of out of the spectrum and 773 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,360 then but the one that doesn't match that in theory would be 774 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,640 the on cloud monster hyper, but I would argue that that one 775 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:47,840 that's firm. That's odd. 776 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,480 They firm that's odd shoes. That's how it goes. 777 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:55,040 Yeah, but it's got a thick layer of that humi on HF like but it 778 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,800 but it is firmed up because of the cloud tech rim that is put 779 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:00,480 on it. Like if that wasn't there, that 780 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,040 would be a soft shoe. Yes, yeah. 781 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,680 But that's what makes it more stable, softer, yeah. 782 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,400 So that'd be my the that had to bring. 783 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,080 Up the monster hyper. Did you have to bring? 784 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:12,760 It up just so you could talk about that shoe. 785 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:14,360 Yeah, I like it. I'm just no. 786 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:18,680 No, I'm on to a new hype. The A6 GT is my new hype and the 787 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,480 cargo Tony. All right, here's our next. 788 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,720 Here's our next question. You could get one or the other. 789 00:39:25,720 --> 00:39:30,200 You can either get a new PR or you get to run what? 790 00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:35,160 A bucket list race for yourself? Meaning a race that you want to 791 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,240 be able to go and travel to. Maybe Tokyo Marathon's been on 792 00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:41,880 your list, you get to go do it. Or would you rather run APR? 793 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:48,120 How much of APR? You just get a PRAPR you can be 794 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,760 happy with like that, that, that you can be like, OK, I did it. 795 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,880 I'm I'm happy with that PR. Does this include races that 796 00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:01,120 require you to run a certain time to go to them, like Olympic 797 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:02,400 trials or something? Like that? 798 00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:05,360 No, just. Yeah, 'cause like that it. 799 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:10,160 Takes a PR to go to a goal race. Yeah. 800 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,440 Let's take the let's. Keep that out of it. 801 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:17,680 Like, yeah, yeah. But you could include Masters 802 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,720 World or Masters US championships or something 803 00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:23,920 because that would be doubled in with a normal race. 804 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,800 Can I answer that as a two-part? No, yes, of course. 805 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,280 So I'm. Going to answer that with where 806 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,160 I am right now, still holding on to an ego and going I want to 807 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,520 run next time because I think that's for a representative of 808 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:37,080 who I am as a human being. And I think I'm slowly coming to 809 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:41,000 terms of letting that go and wanting to actually be able to 810 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,760 do races or things that it's actually an experience, 811 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,000 especially things like getting to the point where, you know, 812 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:50,680 thinking about, I don't know if this is possible. 813 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,360 I would love to be a master's runner and go to like a world 814 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:58,520 champs and feel like what that's like or AUS champs or something 815 00:40:58,520 --> 00:40:59,920 like that. And that'd be a really cool 816 00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:01,200 experience. And obviously that's not going 817 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,680 to be APR, but right now it's a PR. 818 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,080 I have a feeling and watching my trajectory that that's going to 819 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,720 change to being. I'm looking for a really cool 820 00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:14,480 experience and I hope I have the maturity to be able to choose 821 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,280 the goal race. I will go on the record and say 822 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,960 I think you can still PR Matt. Let me have my pity party. 823 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,880 But yeah, I think, yes, that is I think with. 824 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,120 Yeah, I still. Feel that he's still I had a 825 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:27,800 great. Cross conversation with a 826 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,760 wonderful individual this morning about when we a lot of 827 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,240 times when we PR, we forget the time that it took to get there. 828 00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:36,720 It's like a lot of our college PRS are built off of college, 829 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,200 high school, and even before that, and it takes a long time 830 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,960 to get there, so. When you're also just in a 831 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,880 competitive environment constantly like that does 832 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,600 change. So if you've had challenges and 833 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:51,680 like you kind of had to put that secondarily and then you're 834 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,080 coming back, you have to be patient with yourself and give 835 00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:58,200 yourself that time. And that might be 678 years if 836 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,080 you're willing to be patient, stay healthy, keep putting the 837 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:05,000 work in and being consistent. It just might take some time. 838 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,760 So again, that goes back to that longevity and the lifelong thing 839 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,440 that Nathan talked about. So I have a very, I think, a 840 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,400 very positive outlook walking into the stuff. 841 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,240 So we'll see what happens. Definitely knocking out stroller 842 00:42:16,240 --> 00:42:20,640 PRS for sure. I think, yeah. 843 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,800 I think I think right now I would pick a bucket list race. 844 00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:30,040 I would love to be able to go run some of either. 845 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,160 Like the ones that pop into my mind is like go run Big Sur when 846 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:35,680 the course is. Yeah, you really want to run 847 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:37,320 big. It sounds fun, yeah. 848 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:39,600 Or. That sounds awful to me. 849 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,720 Because I wouldn't want to. You can't PR there or I couldn't 850 00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:45,960 PR there. You know, either that or some of 851 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,800 the cool like trail races, like if I got a chance to go run 852 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:50,920 Leadville. Or. 853 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,560 You know, just some of these cool, cool type races. 854 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,400 I would much rather do that right now and perform terribly 855 00:42:57,720 --> 00:42:59,840 then. And just go be a part of the 856 00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,280 culture. Yeah, then PRI think because I 857 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,800 don't have a competitive history in running, there's a higher 858 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,040 chance that PRS can come. But I would I would rather get 859 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,600 the opportunity to go do one of those cool races. 860 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,200 And I haven't thought very deeply about what those bucket 861 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:18,280 list ones are, but I'm sure sure there's plenty that would be 862 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,200 fun. Question Big Sur is what race 863 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,240 distance? It's a marathon. 864 00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:24,040 Marathon. Is there other distances or is 865 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,400 it just the marathon? I don't know. 866 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,400 I mean, I've never looked at the race personally. 867 00:43:29,720 --> 00:43:32,400 I it's really over there. You know they should have an 868 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:36,480 intro like a 5K10K race there. I mean, it'd be beautiful, you 869 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,600 know, like it'd be a gorgeous run, you know, I just, I mean 870 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,520 that just, I don't know. They should have a 5K10K called. 871 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:44,120 The Little Sur. Well, there is Little Sur. 872 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,720 Wait, there is. Yeah, Yeah, I feel a little S 873 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:49,440 from big city. Is that this is not falling. 874 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,560 This is actually really. I'm not. 875 00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,560 I'm probably. Kid ruined my trip. 876 00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,320 But yes, we could have a little serve 5K and 10K. 877 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,800 They do have a 21 Miller race instead of doing the whole mini. 878 00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,760 Do 20 mini. Miller to finish in their like. 879 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,120 Man that bombs. I have oh for two on jokes 880 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:12,800 today. David, what do you say the? 881 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:17,360 Other one I can't repeat. Oh, total gain in that marathon 882 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,400 is 2100 and. 80 yeah, screw that. 883 00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:22,880 Like you're like Victor, I'm like that. 884 00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,200 Sounds it isn't beautiful. I've heard nothing but really 885 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,960 good things about how how great that course is and how it's a. 886 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,040 It's a great, it's gorgeous, it's a beautiful coastline and 887 00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,200 you'll have, you know, a terrible and a great time. 888 00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:35,480 Race directors listen to this going wow, thanks for. 889 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,880 Talking. Well, but I think the appeal 890 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:42,560 with that race is going to Big Sur. 891 00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,480 It is a beautiful place on this planet and it is unique. 892 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,160 So nothing against Big Sur. I actually just went up there 893 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:49,880 recently so. David, what's your answer? 894 00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:52,840 For me, you know, it's kind of funny. 895 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,920 I, I don't really come from it from like an ego standpoint. 896 00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,680 I just don't really have any bucket list races. 897 00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,960 I like I, I, I don't really, there's nothing that I'm like, 898 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,800 wow, I really want to run that, you know, like I, I haven't run 899 00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:10,600 a major, you know, and I, I know the day will come eventually, 900 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,920 but I haven't exactly been like itching to be like, oh, I got to 901 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:16,880 go run New York. I got to go run Boston. 902 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,320 I got to go run Chicago, Tokyo, whatever. 903 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,560 I think I'd just take APR, you know, I'd be happy with the PR. 904 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:28,800 I'm still kind of in that mindset. 905 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,280 Not necessarily. I just want to get faster and 906 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:33,920 run well. And it doesn't necessarily 907 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,320 matter on what course that's on and where it's at. 908 00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:42,120 You know, I, I just don't really have any like major destination 909 00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:45,080 kind of races. It sounds kind of lame, but I 910 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,000 don't really. I just don't have them. 911 00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,680 Dude you should do Fontana Days half marathon for your. 912 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:55,600 Do you think I could break? Do you think I could break 105 913 00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:56,640 on that? Yeah, for sure. 914 00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:57,280 Do you think so? Yeah. 915 00:45:57,880 --> 00:45:59,440 I don't know if you could ever walk again. 916 00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:01,760 But that would hurt. For the listeners that don't 917 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:03,720 know this, this is a Southern California thing. 918 00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:07,480 This is in Fontana, California. Or those as they used to make 919 00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:08,800 fun of it. Fun Tucky, but that's a 920 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,600 different story. Sorry, Fontana. 921 00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,280 It's a completely downhill half marathon. 922 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:17,360 That's pretty steep, right? Like, yeah, it's steep. 923 00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,120 It's steep. So they have a 5K and 1/2. 924 00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,720 I don't know what I don't know. It's pretty massive drop. 925 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,720 Yeah, yeah. All right, we're gonna, I'm 926 00:46:25,720 --> 00:46:30,320 gonna move us forward. And the goal now will be to have 927 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,400 more succinct answers so we can get to some a few more of these. 928 00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:36,120 What do? We do with that neighborhood. 929 00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:41,120 Our next question is in relation to you sitting there as a 930 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:45,280 physical therapist and how you like to employ your care for 931 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:50,720 runners. So this or that manual therapy 932 00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:55,960 plus exercise or exercise only. I like manual therapy and 933 00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:59,520 exercise I do. I think sometimes manual therapy 934 00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:03,400 can open up a window, you know of function that sometimes 935 00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:05,960 people might be fearful to approach or do. 936 00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,600 Maybe it gives them a little bit less pain, maybe it improves 937 00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:12,080 mobility a little bit and then they can now go and utilize this 938 00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,320 window to work on things exercise wise. 939 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:17,840 I think if I have the person there in front of me and there 940 00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:22,280 is something to address, I think we can address it and then and 941 00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,320 then follow it up with exercises. 942 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:26,880 Yeah, I, I, I do think that's probably where Eileen. 943 00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:33,120 Eileen, very similarly, especially in the process of 944 00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,840 building a relationship with the person that you're with, if you 945 00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,720 can identify something that you can make an early change on, it 946 00:47:38,720 --> 00:47:42,160 can potentially lead to conversations in a relationship 947 00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,800 that's going to lead to longer standing impacts and buy in with 948 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,080 the plan of care if you can show meaningful changes. 949 00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:51,640 I think there is a sometimes movement within the profession 950 00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,760 for those who aren't in the profession to move away from 951 00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,880 some of the manual therapy, whether that's massage or joint 952 00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:01,440 mobilizations or whatever it is because they're not showing long 953 00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:04,160 term benefits in comparison to exercise alone. 954 00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,320 That's not across the board for everything, but in some cases. 955 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:11,400 But I still think that there's just such value beyond just long 956 00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,440 term outcomes that manual therapy can afford you as a 957 00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:17,960 therapist and as the person working with that PT and I. 958 00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,400 So I'm a huge proponent of utilizing it when it's indicated 959 00:48:21,720 --> 00:48:24,160 to be able to make that short term change just like David 960 00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:25,920 said, and build that relationship. 961 00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,280 I'm totally on the the same thing I think. 962 00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,480 I'd be very shocked otherwise being a fellow of the manual 963 00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,680 therapy. Yeah, I think it flopped. 964 00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:36,600 I was just going to say there are. 965 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:38,960 And it gets a kind of tag on. Yeah. 966 00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,080 You know, to be honest, there's been sometimes I've kind of gone 967 00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,000 back and forth on that, just like men in our profession have 968 00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,520 gone asking like, and there are some patients who, you know, 969 00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:49,840 yes, they're the physical contact that comes that like 970 00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:52,680 making a connection point with a human being can make a very big 971 00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,280 impact on how people feel if utilized appropriately. 972 00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:57,800 You just have to be careful that sometimes there are certain 973 00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,240 personalities that become very dependent on that. 974 00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:03,120 And if you're going to emphasize independence, you have to be 975 00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,320 very cautious with what intervention you choose. 976 00:49:05,720 --> 00:49:08,680 I'm very much the one at going what you know, the evidence 977 00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:10,560 suggests. Actually, usually a combination 978 00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,440 of interventions is usually more is more effective than single 979 00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,560 ones alone. But I'm still very much someone 980 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:20,280 who like, show me what's going on and let me address the 981 00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,800 impairments and the issues at hand that are unique to the 982 00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,080 person in ways that are important to them. 983 00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,760 So if manual therapy is not important, I'm not going to use 984 00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:30,600 it If they're very an independent person, like don't 985 00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:32,440 touch me. Like I just show me what to do 986 00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,320 so I can get out of here. I'm like, great, you know, let 987 00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:35,840 me give you exactly what you need. 988 00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:42,160 But if I can use manual therapy to change how someone perceives 989 00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,200 their function is, which is a lot of kind of our understanding 990 00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,280 of a lot of what manual therapy is doing is it's less sometimes 991 00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:52,040 structural changes and more like changing how the nervous system 992 00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,400 responds, how the person even views what they can or can't do. 993 00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,200 Then for sure I'm going to use that to modulate pain to 994 00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:00,880 hopefully give someone a better idea of what they're capable of. 995 00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,400 The other thing is I'll do it is I'll show them as a way of 996 00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,680 going, You can actually do this for yourself, right? 997 00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:10,560 I can show you how to mobilize this and I, I will show you 998 00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,200 first like, oh, look, that feels better or how does that feel? 999 00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:14,200 Oh, it feels better. Great. 1000 00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:18,760 Let me show you how to do that. So very much, if I'm gonna use 1001 00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:22,160 any manual therapy, I'm not gonna do anything that I can't 1002 00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:26,080 show the person how to do themselves, because I really 1003 00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:29,640 always want to give power back to that human being because it's 1004 00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:32,400 their body. So here's another question for 1005 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:36,480 you and I think it's pertinent in the realm that we live in 1006 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:38,640 where there is a lot of information online. 1007 00:50:38,720 --> 00:50:41,040 There are a lot of really skilled physical therapists 1008 00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:45,680 putting their knowledge online. We also put our thoughts and our 1009 00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:50,280 knowledge on online as well. So when you consider your 1010 00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:52,280 position as a physical therapist, treating physical 1011 00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:56,920 therapist this or that people, having a physical therapist and 1012 00:50:56,920 --> 00:51:01,520 going to physical therapy or doing it, do it yourself rehab. 1013 00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:04,880 This is assuming an injury or this is assuming. 1014 00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,880 Assuming something pops up, yes. Assuming an injury. 1015 00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,280 How about you talking? I know this is, this is the, 1016 00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:11,760 this is the point of the question. 1017 00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:13,800 So why don't you just talk about it? 1018 00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:14,840 Yeah. Because I feel like if it's 1019 00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:17,160 something that's relatively minor, like maybe they just had 1020 00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:18,880 a little increase in their mileage or something, there's a 1021 00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,120 chance that they just work on a couple things they see online 1022 00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:24,320 and do fine and come back around and have no need to ever see me, 1023 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,600 you know? And that's OK, but obviously if 1024 00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:31,040 something's truly like impacting your ability to move, walk, 1025 00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:35,920 live, run, sleep, like if it's affecting you, like while you, 1026 00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:40,000 yeah, please come in, you know, like I, I think it just depends 1027 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,760 on the severity of it. And then like, that's not to say 1028 00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:45,720 that in the first situation they don't come in either because 1029 00:51:45,720 --> 00:51:47,840 they could try some stuff and if it's just not working or they 1030 00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,040 just want to have some guidance on something and have someone 1031 00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:51,560 look at it and be like, hey, what do you see? 1032 00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:54,760 You know, then, then physical therapy is the route there. 1033 00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,200 But if they, you know, they start a little program on 1034 00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,360 something, like you said, there's a lot of P TS online now 1035 00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,320 that are putting things out and there's a lot of good content 1036 00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:03,720 out there. And if someone feels comfortable 1037 00:52:03,720 --> 00:52:06,760 ciphering through it and trying a couple things out and seeing 1038 00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,240 how it goes, there's nothing wrong with that, you know, And 1039 00:52:09,240 --> 00:52:11,400 then if it doesn't work, then you do consult a professional. 1040 00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:15,680 But I think with the access to information, it's actually kind 1041 00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:16,800 of nice. It's kind of like what we do 1042 00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,520 here sometimes, right? Like, I mean, we make some basic 1043 00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:21,640 recommendations and someone tries it and listens to the 1044 00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:22,720 podcast. Hey, that worked. 1045 00:52:22,720 --> 00:52:25,080 Thanks guys. You know, it saved, saved a 1046 00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:28,320 couple 100 bucks and you know, like and time, right? 1047 00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:33,400 So yeah, I'm a fan of it. I just think that there's a time 1048 00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,880 and place and I think the person just needs to be honest with 1049 00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:38,040 themselves and like, if it's working, it's working. 1050 00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:39,360 If it's not working, it's not working. 1051 00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:42,240 And if there's a true injury that's affecting your daily 1052 00:52:42,240 --> 00:52:44,720 living, then you should go see a professional. 1053 00:52:44,720 --> 00:52:47,040 But if it's something small and minor that you could probably 1054 00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:48,840 shake. Give it a shot, you know? 1055 00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,280 Yeah, it's worth a shot. Yeah, I I'm very, very similar 1056 00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:55,360 in my position on this as well. I think that a lot of it also 1057 00:52:55,360 --> 00:53:00,120 comes down to how how you as an individual process your injury 1058 00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:02,840 that you're going through. Because sometimes all the 1059 00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,520 information online can be paralyzing because you can find 1060 00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:07,600 conflict information from different folks. 1061 00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:09,840 And then you're like, well, is this actually what I have? 1062 00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:11,840 And then you try it one time you're like, did I actually do 1063 00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:13,920 that right? You're depends if you're that 1064 00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:17,280 kind of person, my recommendation would be find APT 1065 00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:19,960 that you can just like have in your back pocket that you really 1066 00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:23,160 trust that you know is super analytical. 1067 00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:25,320 They don't even need to be a runner to be honest. 1068 00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:28,320 But if you know that they are a critical thinker, that they are 1069 00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,400 able to analyze your movement and understand you as a person, 1070 00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:34,520 then you can just like put your eggs in that basket and kind of 1071 00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:35,960 like let go of trying to figure it out. 1072 00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:39,160 Let them do the work for you and just trust their word. 1073 00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:42,200 But that comes with building trust and finding that PT that 1074 00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:43,880 is actually going to take the time. 1075 00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:48,640 But if you're somebody who can pretty have a nuanced view, 1076 00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:52,160 knowing that, hey, I know that I'm having this pain kind of up 1077 00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:53,760 by my butt. And I don't know if it's like 1078 00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:56,960 actually something my glute or if it's my hamstring insertion. 1079 00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:59,080 Like I don't actually know what it is, but I know that that's 1080 00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:00,640 where my pain is. I'm going to at least just give 1081 00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:04,600 these a shot, but not kind of hunkering down too hard on that 1082 00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:07,200 and like ingraining your beliefs with what you may be learning 1083 00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,280 online. Because the tricky part is 1084 00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:13,440 people like us, when we put out stuff online, we have a specific 1085 00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:15,760 person or audience that we're trying to reach with the 1086 00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:18,760 message. And it might not be you, but if 1087 00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,520 you think it's you and you hear that message and it's 1088 00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:25,680 conflicting from what your PT who actually looked at you, that 1089 00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:28,760 can get confusing. So I think it's a lot of more of 1090 00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:32,000 a mental decision and how you'd handle different sources of 1091 00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:35,920 information than it is even just the injury that you're dealing 1092 00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:38,440 with itself. So but yeah, I think that 1093 00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:39,640 there's a lot of valuable information. 1094 00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,080 If you can utilize it and just keep moving forward without 1095 00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:47,240 having to kind of fall off the wagon and have to put in a ton 1096 00:54:47,240 --> 00:54:50,280 of time and money into medical care, I think that's awesome. 1097 00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:54,480 But also, if you can find APT that you can always go to and 1098 00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:58,360 trust, I think that's definitely a biased opinion, but I think 1099 00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:01,600 that's a huge thing for a runner, having somebody that 1100 00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,160 could really know you and figure you out early. 1101 00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,640 Matt, do you have thoughts? I, I totally agree with both of 1102 00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:08,640 you. I just have to acknowledge that 1103 00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,400 my biases come from where I, where I work and where I 1104 00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,800 currently work, having come from a Kaiser model where I may not 1105 00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,880 get to see people very often. So I kind of my practice changes 1106 00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:21,160 from like, if I see you, I'm, I'm expecting that I might not 1107 00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:23,120 see you again. And that's kind of how I even do 1108 00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:24,720 my private stuff for my goal is to go. 1109 00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:28,440 I want on one visit to be able to not only help you figure out 1110 00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,640 what's going on, but also make sure that you have the tools to 1111 00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:34,960 treat this and kind of not need me unless something new pops up 1112 00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:36,680 and you really need help. Again, it's like trying to 1113 00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:40,600 empower people quite a bit. It's the same thing kind of 1114 00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:42,440 where I'm working right now. We're kind of setting up some 1115 00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,840 primary care PT stuff with the same mindset of going, yeah, you 1116 00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:49,000 know, we're here as a as a as a really help you understand 1117 00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:51,240 what's going on and under and direct you where to go. 1118 00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,280 Not necessarily being the ones you have to come in three to 1119 00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:58,280 four times a week and do that. But like, yeah, I think this we 1120 00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:01,240 I think I see our profession, maybe this is me bias and moving 1121 00:56:01,240 --> 00:56:04,320 into the we are teachers, right? And our goal is to empower 1122 00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,960 people instead of thinking about that multiply a week, becoming 1123 00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:10,120 the lifelong, you know, practitioners that can follow 1124 00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:12,760 people like when you need us, we're always here. 1125 00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:14,960 But each time we're going to try to teach you something and give 1126 00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:17,880 you skills and hopefully throughout your life continue to 1127 00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:21,200 build through that. So you also know how to take 1128 00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:23,720 care of yourself too. So yes, I'm a little more biased 1129 00:56:23,720 --> 00:56:26,320 on that and I think I'm just repeating what you said, that 1130 00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:28,440 the content out there, if it helps you, awesome. 1131 00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:31,280 That's that's what we want. If you feel like that's not 1132 00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,920 working and it needs, you need the to have somebody take a look 1133 00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:36,760 at something and even act sometimes of having somebody 1134 00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:39,800 like put their hand in the area and let you know what's going on 1135 00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:43,960 can be super helpful. So yeah, I think it's a balance 1136 00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:46,320 and I think helping people utilize physical therapy 1137 00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:49,200 appropriately is really key. And the more independent we can 1138 00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:52,320 get people, the better, which a lot of medical systems don't 1139 00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:54,360 always like because that's not as profitable. 1140 00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:57,960 So that's a different challenge. So, another rant and 1141 00:56:57,960 --> 00:56:59,040 conversation. Yeah. 1142 00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:00,480 Absolutely. All right. 1143 00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:02,840 Let's finish up with one more. This or that. 1144 00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:07,120 We're going back to the shoe world and the question is this 1145 00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:11,680 or that rigid or flexible 4 foot for easy day and daily mileage? 1146 00:57:12,240 --> 00:57:14,520 Well, adding a piece, sorry to do this on that last 1147 00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:16,720 conversation. If it's post operative, by the 1148 00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:18,960 way, like surgical stuff, different conversation, 1149 00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:21,960 completely different conversation come in like you 1150 00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,080 need to be and it needs to be followed, checked, that's 1151 00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:28,040 different. Like some neurologic diseases, 1152 00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:30,440 stuff like that, also very different. 1153 00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,680 So this is for your classic outpatient orthopedics anyway. 1154 00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:37,360 What about Pediatrics? That depends on who you ask. 1155 00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:41,200 I've had some very smart people at George Fox challenge me with 1156 00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:43,400 that and I don't know because I'm not very experienced in 1157 00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:45,640 Pete's, but. Thank you care. 1158 00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:47,520 We don't see them that long anyway. 1159 00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:51,880 We get like one visit sometimes they get discharged on the next 1160 00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:54,840 place. So inpatient, inpatient ER is 1161 00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:56,120 probably not the best place to ask. 1162 00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:01,280 Yeah. So stiff, stiff or flexible 1163 00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:03,400 forefoot for easy running, correct? 1164 00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:06,720 Yeah, for kind of daily mileage, easy running. 1165 00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:10,560 I would say personally for me right now with where my Achilles 1166 00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:13,040 is at, so it's actually not bad. I would say a little bit more 1167 00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,760 flexible forefoot. If my Achilles is a grump, then 1168 00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:18,840 I'm going to want something stiffer, more rockered. 1169 00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:24,160 I tend to learn more flexible for my easy days, but I like 1170 00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:26,600 long runs, though I do kind of like having a little bit of a 1171 00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:28,840 stiffer rocker. So the 22 that I did today was 1172 00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:33,280 in the Super Blast, but I would never run a super blast really 1173 00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:36,440 on an easy normal day. You know, like I, I pretty much 1174 00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:38,640 like the GT like that has flex grooves. 1175 00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:40,920 It I mean, it has a little bit of stiffness up front. 1176 00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:43,360 I feel like most shoes now have some stiffness. 1177 00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:45,760 It's not like there's not really that many true flexible shoes 1178 00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:48,920 anymore. There are some, but I like 1179 00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:51,600 having some flexibility. I don't like it being super 1180 00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:54,720 rigid all of the time. Slightly off topic, David, do 1181 00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:57,240 you, did you, How do you feel like the Super Blast 2 is 1182 00:58:57,240 --> 00:58:59,760 different in terms of like its tolerance to easy runs compared 1183 00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:03,280 to the first one? That's a good question. 1184 00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:05,600 Similar. Sorry, let me not bias you. 1185 00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:07,880 Do you feel like they're similar or different? 1186 00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:15,040 I would say the Super blast 2 is a little bit more responsive and 1187 00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:19,440 if I'm truly doing just like sloggy miles, I probably would 1188 00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:27,280 opt for super blast one. But for like like very slightly 1189 00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:31,000 up tempo or like I mean even like just like a normal daily 1190 00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:32,600 pace. But like like for the long run 1191 00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:36,720 today I think we I mean, this is not to just like flex numbers, 1192 00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:40,640 but like for me, like easy can probably be anywhere from, I 1193 00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:45,280 don't know, 7 to 8 something, you know, and today I think we 1194 00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:50,760 went like seven 18719, you know, like I feel like under 730 pace 1195 00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:52,680 ish. It feels good, you know, but I 1196 00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:55,440 wouldn't want it for like those seven 40s to 8 minute kind of 1197 00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,080 paces. So whereas the Super blast one I 1198 00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:01,400 probably could have. So it's like just a little bit 1199 01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:07,400 faster where it works for easy days, but it has to be like not 1200 01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:10,520 a sloggy easy day. I know that's a very muddy 1201 01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:13,240 answer. Yeah, that's why I feel the 1202 01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:15,120 same. Sorry, Nate. 1203 01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:17,080 Nathan. No, it's great. 1204 01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:19,680 I'm actually going to ask US1 more this or that question that 1205 01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:23,600 wasn't planned on because we, we've actually gotten a number 1206 01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:27,960 of questions, emails, suggestions on this singular 1207 01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:30,680 topic. And it's about the conversation 1208 01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:34,080 related to and it's, I think it's coming from a good place. 1209 01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:36,720 And I the people who have sent us these thoughts and questions 1210 01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:39,360 and recommendations know that this is something that we talked 1211 01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:40,880 about. And so I'm going to I want to 1212 01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,440 bring it up here. And the question is, when 1213 01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:47,480 talking about a shoe and how it performs, should we talk more 1214 01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:50,320 about the effort that we're putting in and how the shoe 1215 01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:52,760 responded to that effort or should we talk more about the 1216 01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:56,400 pace and how the shoe responded to that pace? 1217 01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:58,760 You know, it's funny, I was a little disappointed because I 1218 01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:01,240 thought this, this or that was going to be Squirtle or 1219 01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:04,080 Charmander. Darn it, yeah, that we have 1220 01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:06,440 gotten a lot of. Thoughts about that too, by the 1221 01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:09,600 way, It's obviously Charmander, you know, younger. 1222 01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:11,760 Me would have said Charmander, but older me. 1223 01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:14,920 Well, I'm still going with Charmander regardless, can I? 1224 01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:19,120 So following up, Nate, I think I would have answered you very 1225 01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:23,200 intensely with pace previously, but my actual answer is, which 1226 01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:27,480 is not a great is I don't know. I always thought pace because 1227 01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:30,080 we're trying to individualize this and knowing that mechanics 1228 01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:34,080 might can change to a degree under speedier conditions. 1229 01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:37,240 So as people increase their own speed, there are some 1230 01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:39,200 similarities, but there can also be differences. 1231 01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:42,600 And some people may not be able to run certain paces yet might 1232 01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:44,920 have mechanics that actually look quite similar to that. 1233 01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:52,080 So I'm not really sure. My gut instinct is to stay away 1234 01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:58,200 from an actual pace because that can be that pace can be a very 1235 01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:00,720 different thing for for different people. 1236 01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:04,160 So my gut is to say effort, but I understand where people are 1237 01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:09,720 coming from wanting that pace. I have a mixed answer. 1238 01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:15,280 So I would think for the larger context and very large majority 1239 01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:16,920 of this answer, I would say effort. 1240 01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:21,760 I think in nine times out of 10 that'll get that across. 1241 01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:25,000 The only reason why I have that kind of one out of 10 1242 01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:29,880 reservation is strictly in the realm of performance shoes. 1243 01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:32,680 There has been some murmurs down the Grapevine. 1244 01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:35,400 I'm not going to name any names or anything, but I've heard that 1245 01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:38,120 there has been a variety of different responsiveness that 1246 01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:41,560 can be with the output out of shoes and like changes on 1247 01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:44,040 certain economies and things like that based on the amount of 1248 01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:47,280 force going into something and that can be largely independent 1249 01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:49,000 by pace. Yeah, and I. 1250 01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:52,440 But in the grander context effort. 1251 01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:57,560 Yeah, I think I, I, I'm with both of you and I'm with you, 1252 01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:00,240 Matt, and saying like we, I don't think I really know yet 1253 01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:02,200 either. But I think I, what I think I do 1254 01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:05,080 know is that there is intersectionality of all of the 1255 01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:09,280 different factors beyond just effort and pace, because it also 1256 01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:14,240 probably influences, you know, your other mechanics differences 1257 01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:16,560 regarding your cadence. Maybe it has something to do 1258 01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:18,840 with your body weight. There's a lot of different 1259 01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:23,200 pieces that could play into how a shoe feels at a certain effort 1260 01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:26,000 or pace or both, depending on who you are. 1261 01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,520 So I think it's way too complicated that I think in that 1262 01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:32,920 point, maybe it's good for us to just say both and people can do 1263 01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:36,240 their side of it and say, hey, I'm very similar to that runner. 1264 01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:38,320 Maybe I would it would respond differently. 1265 01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:42,640 I lean towards the effort side of things overall, but I think 1266 01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:45,320 when it does come to pace, David, you referenced down the 1267 01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:48,760 Grapevine stuff and then there's also published research about 1268 01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:52,880 differences in running economy improvements between faster and 1269 01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:56,560 slower paces with super shoes. So there is something to be said 1270 01:03:56,560 --> 01:04:00,120 about pace, but I don't think outside of those performance 1271 01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:02,600 shoes, there's that much to be said. 1272 01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:07,240 Like a shoe that is, you know, if I were to talk about like 1273 01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:11,520 putting in a 5K effort with the Glycerin Max, I don't think it 1274 01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:13,800 would matter how fast I'm running that 5K. 1275 01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:16,920 If somebody was, if David was running that 5K and I was 1276 01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:19,560 running that 5K, we'd probably both say this is way too heavy 1277 01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:23,320 to be able to like put down the effort, you know, and. 1278 01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:25,080 That honestly sounds daunting so. 1279 01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:28,920 Yeah. Would you this or that run a 5K 1280 01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:32,200 in the glycerin Max or something? 1281 01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:36,120 You know yes, another. Marathon in a vivo. 1282 01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:39,440 There we go. So I. 1283 01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:41,400 I would, I would. Probably opt for the final 1284 01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:44,760 issue, and many, many years ago I probably would have done the 1285 01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:46,000 opposite, but now I can't do that. 1286 01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:48,440 That's hilarious. Yeah. 1287 01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:50,840 I just, I think that it's, I think it's tricky, but I think 1288 01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:54,960 that effort actually gets a lot, gets you a lot of the way there. 1289 01:04:55,160 --> 01:04:57,480 I do think that when it comes to performance, I'm with you, 1290 01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:00,720 David, that there's something to be said about how fast you're 1291 01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:04,600 moving and especially for people in your boat where it's like, 1292 01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:06,920 can it, how does it feel at those top paces? 1293 01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:10,360 Because for me, if I'm going to go run a marathon and I trained 1294 01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:13,360 for it, I would try to be training to run like sub eights, 1295 01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:16,120 maybe seven, 45730, something like that. 1296 01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:20,880 And for me, that's not fast enough for like a lot of the 1297 01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:23,600 factors to really matter because I could throw on a lot of 1298 01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:26,560 different shoes. And at that effort and pace, 1299 01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:30,080 they would all perform pretty similarly from a field 1300 01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:32,160 standpoint. And it would matter more about 1301 01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:34,960 my preference than it would the actual pace that I'm running. 1302 01:05:35,280 --> 01:05:37,360 So, Matt, you're going to say something? 1303 01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:40,080 A last piece just to think out there, there is some research 1304 01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:43,240 that does use pace like you have to be running this pace and 1305 01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:46,480 below the challenges in why some of that gets is really difficult 1306 01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:49,720 to publish is because the reviewers will go well. 1307 01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:52,280 How do you know that effort is the same? 1308 01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:54,480 Because there's a lot of very good research that suggests that 1309 01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:58,520 effort is actually one of the best indicators of performance 1310 01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:01,240 in this has been done a lot in cycling, especially a lot in 1311 01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:04,120 running. So the research, and I say this 1312 01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:06,000 because this is actually something I'm in the process of 1313 01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:08,720 setting up right now, is looking at what happens at different 1314 01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:11,440 paces. And so a lot of the protocols 1315 01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:14,440 like Brian Heiderscheit over in Wisconsin's using is you start 1316 01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:20,720 at whatever that person's unique Nathan, that person's unique 1317 01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:23,720 standard running pace. Wait, but if you turn that over, 1318 01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:26,000 it's. You start at whatever an easy 1319 01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:28,400 pace is for them. So that could be a variety of 1320 01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:31,720 things, but you're looking at their standard effort and that 1321 01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:33,800 is the baseline, whatever pace that is. 1322 01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:36,920 And then you increase that by 10% a couple times to get a 1323 01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:39,040 different variety of getting into faster efforts. 1324 01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:42,240 But that's going to be that those paces are still going to 1325 01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:45,640 be unique to the individual. And so that's been the more 1326 01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:48,480 accepted method in the research world, which is where I'm going 1327 01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:51,160 because I'd also like to not, I'd like to get published and 1328 01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:53,320 not have to deal with a ton of reviewers being super like, 1329 01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:54,800 we're not going to publish your stuff. 1330 01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:58,480 But it's it's an interesting combination of the two of them. 1331 01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:02,920 So I think functionally, as it rolls out from us, you probably 1332 01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:06,760 won't see a specific standardized way that we talk 1333 01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:10,520 about how a shoe responds to us because we will probably choose 1334 01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:14,080 the one that we feel is most appropriate, knowing that there 1335 01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:16,960 are going to be people who wish that we shared pace for every 1336 01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:22,080 shoe and the efforts, you might get a combination of them from 1337 01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:23,840 us. And that is somewhat intentional 1338 01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:27,120 because we don't want to put too many eggs in a specific basket. 1339 01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:31,360 And we have a lot to learn. And so if stuff comes out and 1340 01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:34,400 you have stuff to share with us, we'd love to learn and, you 1341 01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:36,680 know, change the way that we think based on evidence. 1342 01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:40,200 Super, super open to that. And we will, when it's 1343 01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:43,640 appropriate, try to share both sides so that if you do want 1344 01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:46,760 that information, we can just give you what you want in that 1345 01:07:46,760 --> 01:07:49,840 in that sense, because it's not going to hurt anything at the 1346 01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:52,400 same time. I wonder if we could give the 1347 01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:57,160 like the effort and then what that pace is at that point in 1348 01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:58,360 our life. Right. 1349 01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:01,720 I think that's what they're hoping for, which I think is 1350 01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:05,040 very reasonable to ask, but I think it's a unique, it's an 1351 01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:08,720 interesting conversation with the Heiderschite stuff. 1352 01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:10,920 We should actually have him on the show to talk about. 1353 01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:13,160 We just have him on to talk about cadence because he's kind 1354 01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:17,120 of the cadence guy and he's. Brian, does Cadence fix 1355 01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:18,439 everything? Is that the solution? 1356 01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:23,000 And he would say no, but I just, I think he's pretty smart guy 1357 01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,000 obviously. And you know, when you're 1358 01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:27,960 talking about self selected and then 5 and 10%, a lot of that 1359 01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:30,720 research is within self selected cadence and then changing 1360 01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:32,240 cadence. And then they would assess 1361 01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:36,160 biomechanical differences at 5 and 10% above and below they're 1362 01:08:36,160 --> 01:08:39,279 self selected. It's really cool how the 1363 01:08:39,279 --> 01:08:45,439 patterns change between people with cadences from 160 to 180 as 1364 01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:47,520 they're self selected, but the changes that happen 1365 01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:50,600 biomechanically when you increase their own self selected 1366 01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:52,640 are all pretty similar. It's awesome. 1367 01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:54,319 So we should have him on. I'll reach out to him. 1368 01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:57,439 I've got some. Do you think that if we had him 1369 01:08:57,439 --> 01:08:59,680 on the episode, go pretty quick because you've hired Cadence to 1370 01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:03,600 be a little quicker turnover? I don't know what to select self 1371 01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:06,840 select it is. Nathan's tried to ignore me not 1372 01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:11,279 acknowledging joke. No, I tried to, I tried to like 1373 01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:13,560 keep it going, but clearly it was a bad. 1374 01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:14,439 Joke. I think it'd be fine. 1375 01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:18,240 I I could probably go invest in some like big 10 gear from a 1376 01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:21,800 different school and just that that, that that could. 1377 01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:24,399 Be worth it. You know, I have no connection 1378 01:09:24,399 --> 01:09:27,840 to that conference whatsoever, but you know, maybe a Hoosier 1379 01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:28,920 shirt. If I work. 1380 01:09:29,279 --> 01:09:32,399 Or yeah, that'd be, I kind of like the Gophers, you know? 1381 01:09:32,399 --> 01:09:35,000 Like there's just something fun about golden Gophers. 1382 01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:38,160 I don't know. Yeah, have have fun with that. 1383 01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:40,160 All right, we're going to wrap things up. 1384 01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:43,720 Thank you all for joining us for this or that episode. 1385 01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:45,520 We always have fun doing these together. 1386 01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:46,920 Thanks for being on this journey with us. 1387 01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:51,479 If you are willing to leave a review that helps this podcast 1388 01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:54,440 grow and helps other people find it, and we would love to 1389 01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:56,160 continue our conversation with you. 1390 01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:58,640 So if you have questions or things that you want us to 1391 01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:01,040 address in the podcast or thoughts on what we had, you can 1392 01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:06,040 either drop below in a comment or you can send us an e-mail at 1393 01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:09,520 doctorsofrunning@gmail.com. Take care, everybody. 1394 01:10:21,740 --> 01:10:24,220 BJ I think I forgot to turn off the audio. 1395 01:10:27,060 --> 01:10:27,900 Awkward.