1 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:11,399 Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Doctors of Running Podcast, 2 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:13,512 where we, a group of Doctors of Physical Therapy, discuss the 3 00:00:13,512 --> 00:00:16,007 art and science of running and the stuff that we put on our 4 00:00:16,007 --> 00:00:17,843 feet. Today at the round table, we 5 00:00:17,843 --> 00:00:20,848 have the founder of Doctors of Running, Dr. Matthew Klein, as 6 00:00:20,848 --> 00:00:23,578 well as Dr. David Salas, and I am also here. 7 00:00:23,579 --> 00:00:26,254 I'm Nathan Brown. I'll be facilitating today, but 8 00:00:26,254 --> 00:00:30,027 I think we have maybe one of the more exciting announcements 9 00:00:30,027 --> 00:00:34,486 we've ever had as a team. As you all know at this point, 10 00:00:34,486 --> 00:00:38,255 we've been partnering with Rabbit — but we finally get to 11 00:00:38,255 --> 00:00:42,359 drop some gear that we are doing in a collaboration with them. 12 00:00:42,359 --> 00:00:45,635 We have been so excited to be able to do this and create gear 13 00:00:45,635 --> 00:00:49,455 that's actually good to run in. And so we are going to be having 14 00:00:49,455 --> 00:00:52,470 a pre-sale for the Doctors of Running and Rabbit collab 15 00:00:52,470 --> 00:00:56,082 apparel that's going to be open from June 3rd to June 17th. 16 00:00:56,082 --> 00:00:59,995 And then the gear, if you order it, will ship usually during the 17 00:00:59,995 --> 00:01:03,960 week of July 6th. So we got three of the kind of 18 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,718 mainstay stuff from Rabbit that we just love. 19 00:01:06,719 --> 00:01:08,578 I've said it before, I'll say it again. 20 00:01:08,579 --> 00:01:11,879 The EZT and the EZT long sleeve are maybe the most comfortable 21 00:01:11,879 --> 00:01:13,798 materials I've ever had in a shirt. 22 00:01:13,799 --> 00:01:16,138 So we got the short sleeve — what I'm wearing. 23 00:01:16,140 --> 00:01:18,539 We also got the long sleeve. That's what Matt is in. 24 00:01:18,540 --> 00:01:22,428 And we also got the Go-To Hoodie, which is what David is 25 00:01:22,428 --> 00:01:25,344 wearing right now. All those will be available for 26 00:01:25,344 --> 00:01:28,222 the EZ T collection. Those are going to be in both 27 00:01:28,222 --> 00:01:29,578 men's and women's styles and colors. 28 00:01:29,579 --> 00:01:32,675 And then for the hoodie, that's unisex sizing. 29 00:01:32,675 --> 00:01:37,316 But we're super thrilled to have this collab going and hope that 30 00:01:37,316 --> 00:01:41,273 you jump on this train with us. And if you've been looking for 31 00:01:41,273 --> 00:01:43,770 some Doctors of Running apparel that you can actually run in and 32 00:01:43,770 --> 00:01:46,474 use — but this stuff is versatile, so you can use it for 33 00:01:46,474 --> 00:01:48,718 chilling too — please, please jump in with us. 34 00:01:48,719 --> 00:01:51,678 We're super excited and thankful to Rabbit that they are 35 00:01:51,678 --> 00:01:54,491 launching this with us. You'll see links to where you 36 00:01:54,491 --> 00:01:57,745 can purchase this all over our website, in show notes, all that 37 00:01:57,745 --> 00:02:00,688 kind of stuff. So just keep an eye out and jump 38 00:02:00,688 --> 00:02:03,873 on it quick because we've only got it open during this pre-sale 39 00:02:03,873 --> 00:02:06,164 window. So thanks to Rabbit for making 40 00:02:06,164 --> 00:02:07,985 this happen. We've been super excited about 41 00:02:07,985 --> 00:02:12,168 it and more stuff to come. So let's jump forward into our 42 00:02:12,168 --> 00:02:15,911 in-for-testing segment. What have you all been running 43 00:02:15,911 --> 00:02:18,951 in? I can go first because I'm not 44 00:02:18,951 --> 00:02:20,084 running. So... 45 00:02:20,084 --> 00:02:23,399 That's so true. Do you want to talk about that? 46 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,438 Yeah, I mean, it's my own fault, right? 47 00:02:25,439 --> 00:02:27,538 Like, I wasn't running that much. 48 00:02:27,539 --> 00:02:31,551 I got super excited about Boston and I was like, yeah, let's do 49 00:02:31,551 --> 00:02:33,524 it. We're talking maybe 20-mile 50 00:02:33,524 --> 00:02:38,098 weeks — 20 to 30 mile weeks as I got closer. 51 00:02:38,099 --> 00:02:42,675 And it's the weird thing where my body is very capable of doing 52 00:02:42,675 --> 00:02:45,359 the thing. It's just I don't have the 53 00:02:45,359 --> 00:02:47,338 adaptations to adequately recover from it. 54 00:02:47,340 --> 00:02:54,720 And so in the month leading up to it, you know, I had like a 55 00:02:54,720 --> 00:03:00,132 19-miler, a 23-miler, a really hilly 16 — and honestly, those 56 00:03:00,132 --> 00:03:04,558 were probably my longest efforts going into the race. 57 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,098 And I figured, "Oh, I can go 23. I can go 26. 58 00:03:08,099 --> 00:03:10,746 Like, I'm fine." Which, for the most part, I was 59 00:03:10,746 --> 00:03:13,739 — as far as physically being able to do the thing. 60 00:03:13,740 --> 00:03:19,108 Yeah, you completed it. But it was a lot of acute 61 00:03:19,108 --> 00:03:24,472 overload going into the race, and then you have the race 62 00:03:24,472 --> 00:03:27,085 itself. Short sleep, travel — probably 63 00:03:27,085 --> 00:03:31,438 lump a lot of that in too. And then I get home. 64 00:03:31,439 --> 00:03:35,220 I took a week off from running. I was not sore anymore probably 65 00:03:35,220 --> 00:03:39,650 about three-ish days out, but I decided to wait a little bit 66 00:03:39,650 --> 00:03:41,650 longer. I started running again maybe 67 00:03:41,650 --> 00:03:45,553 about a week or so after. And I think I strung together 68 00:03:45,553 --> 00:03:48,478 like a 9 and a 12 miler or something. 69 00:03:48,479 --> 00:03:51,159 No, 13. Yeah, a 9 and a 13, like pretty 70 00:03:51,159 --> 00:03:54,344 much back to back — and again, I still wasn't even running that 71 00:03:54,344 --> 00:03:56,376 much before that. My foot started hurting 72 00:03:56,376 --> 00:04:00,264 basically immediately — like the next day, it would have been a 73 00:04:00,264 --> 00:04:03,179 Saturday run, and then Sunday, probably Monday or Tuesday-ish. 74 00:04:03,180 --> 00:04:05,688 It started hurting. And then I took like a week off, 75 00:04:05,688 --> 00:04:08,878 and then I kind of got a little excited and went to the track. 76 00:04:08,879 --> 00:04:16,139 And then it flared again. And I'm just chilling now. 77 00:04:16,139 --> 00:04:19,428 So it'll be a week, I think, on Tuesday that I've taken off 78 00:04:19,428 --> 00:04:21,958 since the last time. But I'm really sorry for the 79 00:04:21,958 --> 00:04:24,731 trail fans out there, because I was actually really excited to 80 00:04:24,731 --> 00:04:28,007 get in some of those trail shoes and get some of those reviews 81 00:04:28,007 --> 00:04:29,819 out. So I'm heavily delayed on those 82 00:04:29,819 --> 00:04:32,609 at the moment. But once I get going again, I'll 83 00:04:32,609 --> 00:04:36,340 be sure to go slow and steady, get the consistency back up, and 84 00:04:36,340 --> 00:04:40,645 do it the right way this time so that we don't have to have this 85 00:04:40,645 --> 00:04:43,770 happen again. And fingers crossed, I'll be 86 00:04:43,770 --> 00:04:46,402 running this week. I could still feel it a little 87 00:04:46,402 --> 00:04:47,535 bit. I was originally thinking of 88 00:04:47,535 --> 00:04:48,899 running tomorrow, but I'm not going to. 89 00:04:48,899 --> 00:04:51,185 I already just made that decision to call it off right 90 00:04:51,185 --> 00:04:55,100 before recording. But yeah, it'll come back 91 00:04:55,100 --> 00:04:57,240 around. As far as testing too — I also 92 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,639 want to get a tech review. I got a new watch. 93 00:04:59,639 --> 00:05:02,719 Oh yeah. Shout out to the Montecito 94 00:05:02,719 --> 00:05:05,816 Trails Foundation. They were doing a short film 95 00:05:05,816 --> 00:05:08,399 screening — not just for one film. 96 00:05:08,399 --> 00:05:12,361 It was a series of films shown, but my friend Nick and they were 97 00:05:12,361 --> 00:05:15,755 hosting it, and it was at a local brewing company — super 98 00:05:15,755 --> 00:05:18,293 wholesome event, a bunch of people coming together and 99 00:05:18,293 --> 00:05:20,495 watching films together. They had some raffles and stuff, 100 00:05:20,495 --> 00:05:22,979 and I entered, and I ended up winning a Suunto Run. 101 00:05:22,980 --> 00:05:27,119 So I would like to get a tech review out for that too. 102 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,387 But I haven't run in the darn watch because I haven't been 103 00:05:30,387 --> 00:05:32,023 running. But I've been playing around 104 00:05:32,023 --> 00:05:34,199 with it and got things customized and stuff. 105 00:05:34,199 --> 00:05:37,370 So hopefully we can get a tech review out for that coming up 106 00:05:37,370 --> 00:05:39,539 pretty soon too. But yeah, that's kind of what 107 00:05:39,539 --> 00:05:41,963 happened. It was just the overload that we 108 00:05:41,963 --> 00:05:43,823 were talking about. It doesn't matter — like I said 109 00:05:43,823 --> 00:05:47,003 on the last episode I was on — eating, sleeping, yada yada — if 110 00:05:47,003 --> 00:05:49,757 it's a mechanical overload, it's a mechanical overload, and if 111 00:05:49,757 --> 00:05:52,199 your tissue's not ready for it, it's not ready for it. 112 00:05:52,199 --> 00:05:57,299 So yeah, we manifested that one. Go team. 113 00:05:57,300 --> 00:06:01,901 We're all human. Can I ask you some reflective 114 00:06:01,901 --> 00:06:05,076 questions on it? Yeah — if it doesn't require 115 00:06:05,076 --> 00:06:07,139 that kind of reflection. Boston was awesome. 116 00:06:07,139 --> 00:06:11,995 No, 100%. I think my question is more two 117 00:06:11,995 --> 00:06:15,999 different sides of it. The first question I had was — 118 00:06:15,999 --> 00:06:19,922 if you could identify a factor that maybe could have mitigated 119 00:06:19,922 --> 00:06:22,871 it: do you think there was anything you could have changed 120 00:06:22,871 --> 00:06:24,166 afterwards that would have helped? 121 00:06:24,166 --> 00:06:25,979 Because you kind of made it through. 122 00:06:25,980 --> 00:06:30,400 Okay — if you could go back, what would maybe have been a 123 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,780 smarter move for your post-marathon re-engagement with 124 00:06:32,780 --> 00:06:34,040 running? Are there ways you would have 125 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,419 done that differently? Oh, just start smaller. 126 00:06:36,420 --> 00:06:40,596 I mean, I think I did like a 3-mile run, and then I did a 13, 127 00:06:40,596 --> 00:06:43,199 and then a 9. And it's kind of tough too 128 00:06:43,199 --> 00:06:46,059 because a lot of my background was competitive running, and a 129 00:06:46,059 --> 00:06:48,659 lot of my friends run far and they run fast. 130 00:06:48,660 --> 00:06:51,359 And for me to run with my friends — Oh, so you did that 131 00:06:51,359 --> 00:06:53,250 with them? Yeah, but it wasn't their fault 132 00:06:53,250 --> 00:06:54,479 at all. It was me. 133 00:06:54,479 --> 00:06:58,079 Like, I started the run and I was like, "Oh, I might go 5 or 134 00:06:58,079 --> 00:07:01,439 6," and then we were that deep and I was like, "Yeah, I feel 135 00:07:01,439 --> 00:07:02,519 fine. We can keep going. 136 00:07:02,519 --> 00:07:04,919 I'm good." You know? 137 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,594 Dude, that is my experience with my friends too, because they 138 00:07:08,594 --> 00:07:11,995 were doing the ultra stuff. We talked about this on the pod 139 00:07:11,995 --> 00:07:14,219 last fall — they were doing the ultra stuff. 140 00:07:14,220 --> 00:07:17,013 I was building pretty decently, but very fast because they were 141 00:07:17,013 --> 00:07:18,509 running long. They'd been training for it for 142 00:07:18,509 --> 00:07:19,679 a while. I was like, "Maybe I'll just do 143 00:07:19,679 --> 00:07:21,600 it with them." And then lo and behold, stress 144 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,077 fracture for me. And I think there's something in 145 00:07:24,077 --> 00:07:28,031 there that you said that happens to a lot of runners I work with 146 00:07:28,031 --> 00:07:31,979 — and for myself — where it's like, in the run, I feel fine. 147 00:07:31,980 --> 00:07:34,859 Like, I went last fall and I did the 20-miler. 148 00:07:34,860 --> 00:07:38,160 That wasn't the problem because I couldn't feel it in the 149 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:39,809 moment. It was kind of that recovery 150 00:07:39,809 --> 00:07:42,079 part afterwards. So I think there's a level of 151 00:07:42,079 --> 00:07:45,459 discipline I really have to work on personally — and that's why I 152 00:07:45,459 --> 00:07:48,311 have a running coach right now, because I don't have enough 153 00:07:48,311 --> 00:07:51,419 discipline on my own, so they tell me not to run more. 154 00:07:51,420 --> 00:07:55,727 And it's working right now, because I know I'd be running 155 00:07:55,727 --> 00:07:59,246 like crazy. But I was just curious on that 156 00:07:59,246 --> 00:08:01,199 side of things. So. 157 00:08:01,199 --> 00:08:03,875 Yeah, and that's funny because I'm usually not the one to run 158 00:08:03,875 --> 00:08:07,385 too much. I'm usually on the lower end of 159 00:08:07,385 --> 00:08:08,699 mileage. But yeah. 160 00:08:08,699 --> 00:08:11,951 I mean, when you're not running that much to begin with, then 161 00:08:11,951 --> 00:08:14,932 any kind of running beyond a certain capacity becomes a lot 162 00:08:14,932 --> 00:08:17,099 of running — such as running a marathon. 163 00:08:17,100 --> 00:08:20,908 My second question for you was going to be about how you 164 00:08:20,908 --> 00:08:24,395 decided how much time to take off before you try running 165 00:08:24,395 --> 00:08:28,199 again, because I think a lot of runners run into that scenario. 166 00:08:28,199 --> 00:08:29,278 It's like, something starts hurting. 167 00:08:29,279 --> 00:08:32,099 You're not exactly sure what it is — or you even do know what it 168 00:08:32,099 --> 00:08:34,538 is — but you're trying to figure out, "Okay, how many days off 169 00:08:34,538 --> 00:08:36,072 should I take?" What's been your personal 170 00:08:36,072 --> 00:08:38,988 approach in this, and how are you choosing to take a certain 171 00:08:38,988 --> 00:08:42,206 amount of time off? Well, there was this review for 172 00:08:42,206 --> 00:08:46,320 the Saucony Triumph 24 and this other review for the Brooks 173 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:51,556 Ghost 18 that I really wanted to get done so that I could do 174 00:08:51,556 --> 00:08:54,658 these trail reviews. I'm not going to lie. 175 00:08:54,659 --> 00:08:58,047 That had a heavy, heavy influence when I was planning my 176 00:08:58,047 --> 00:09:01,079 mileage and coming back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 177 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:06,072 But no, I mean — make sure I'm not sore and day-to-day things 178 00:09:06,072 --> 00:09:08,790 are easy. Like, none of that feels 179 00:09:08,790 --> 00:09:11,410 difficult or whatever. Going up and downstairs totally 180 00:09:11,410 --> 00:09:13,236 normal. Everything feels like normal, 181 00:09:13,236 --> 00:09:16,114 normal. And then I think I did try one 182 00:09:16,114 --> 00:09:20,157 run where I started and my quads and my calves got a little 183 00:09:20,157 --> 00:09:23,578 crampy on me and I just shut it down right away. 184 00:09:23,578 --> 00:09:26,999 And then waited a few more days and things felt okay. 185 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,520 So I went for like a 3-mile shakeout or something and that 186 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:31,819 went okay. And then I think I did another 187 00:09:31,819 --> 00:09:34,499 3-miler and then I was like, "Okay, it feels fine." 188 00:09:34,500 --> 00:09:35,879 And then I just scaled it way too quick. 189 00:09:35,879 --> 00:09:38,579 If I had just stayed at the 3, I probably would have been fine. 190 00:09:38,580 --> 00:09:43,940 But I wanted more. I mean, more like — now that you 191 00:09:43,940 --> 00:09:47,086 have pain and you've taken time off — how are you deciding when 192 00:09:47,086 --> 00:09:50,239 you go back and try again? Oh, I mean, similar factors, 193 00:09:50,239 --> 00:09:52,439 right? I want to feel good day to day. 194 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,200 I want to make sure — like, I just went on a walk with my wife 195 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,020 before coming on, and I could feel my foot a little bit 196 00:09:59,020 --> 00:10:02,069 towards the end of the walk. And it's like, okay, if I can 197 00:10:02,069 --> 00:10:05,111 feel my foot at the end of a walk, I probably shouldn't be 198 00:10:05,111 --> 00:10:07,561 running tomorrow. So that was kind of the deciding 199 00:10:07,561 --> 00:10:10,391 factor, even though it felt relatively normal the whole day 200 00:10:10,391 --> 00:10:13,724 up until that point. So I don't know — get the 201 00:10:13,724 --> 00:10:17,179 day-to-day things first, and then maybe just go for a short 202 00:10:17,179 --> 00:10:20,319 mile or two. And if it feels good there, just 203 00:10:20,319 --> 00:10:23,459 slowly scale and really just get the consistency back up. 204 00:10:23,460 --> 00:10:25,019 I mean, that's kind of what I'm looking at. 205 00:10:25,019 --> 00:10:27,644 I don't really have any objective return-to-run 206 00:10:27,644 --> 00:10:29,651 measures. I'm not going to put myself 207 00:10:29,651 --> 00:10:32,635 through any kind of formal screening of whether or not I'm 208 00:10:32,635 --> 00:10:34,439 going to go run. Right. 209 00:10:34,439 --> 00:10:38,099 Right. And to be fair, there is no 210 00:10:38,099 --> 00:10:40,199 official evidence-based return-to-run screening program. 211 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,287 It's still theoretical, and there's some decent stuff in the 212 00:10:43,287 --> 00:10:46,073 bone stress fracture literature. But in terms of a general 213 00:10:46,073 --> 00:10:49,181 overuse injury — you'd have to have your own system set up. 214 00:10:49,181 --> 00:10:52,805 And plus, I figure if I can return to run on a broken foot 215 00:10:52,805 --> 00:11:00,433 slash toe — I mean... to be fair, that was not one of my 216 00:11:00,433 --> 00:11:03,604 brighter moments. And second of all, it was a 217 00:11:03,604 --> 00:11:06,904 distal digit that I was able to unload, and that probably has 218 00:11:06,904 --> 00:11:08,278 caused some lasting permanent damage. 219 00:11:08,279 --> 00:11:11,278 So that's something I'm going to pay for at some point. 220 00:11:11,279 --> 00:11:14,352 True. But yeah — and you could 221 00:11:14,352 --> 00:11:17,335 probably see the consequences. Like, if you see my right arm 222 00:11:17,335 --> 00:11:20,858 here shifting a little bit, I am pressing into my heel and like 223 00:11:20,858 --> 00:11:24,110 my plantar fascia a little bit. And if I'm still fidgeting with 224 00:11:24,110 --> 00:11:26,278 it and playing with it, I'm not running. 225 00:11:26,279 --> 00:11:30,119 And especially this time — this is not a second time, right? 226 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,484 Where I kind of like sneak back in. 227 00:11:32,484 --> 00:11:35,999 It's like, no, no, no. Let's just hard reset it. 228 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,499 I have nothing on the calendar right now. 229 00:11:37,500 --> 00:11:39,119 I don't have a thing to prove to anyone. 230 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,879 So I'm just like, let's get this good. 231 00:11:41,879 --> 00:11:46,808 We'll come back and then we'll get that Inov-8 and that Agravic 232 00:11:46,808 --> 00:11:49,678 — and the Salomon Ultra Glide too. 233 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,976 I've got the list in my head. I'm like, and I know the routes 234 00:11:52,976 --> 00:11:54,857 I want to run. And I'm like, gosh, I just want 235 00:11:54,857 --> 00:11:56,699 to start. But it's all good. 236 00:11:56,700 --> 00:12:00,289 Just one thing at a time. More important than the shoe 237 00:12:00,289 --> 00:12:02,391 reviews. You are more important than shoe 238 00:12:02,391 --> 00:12:03,058 reviews. Yeah. 239 00:12:03,059 --> 00:12:05,879 I've got a few that I've been running in. 240 00:12:05,879 --> 00:12:09,538 The first is the Puma Magnify Max 2. 241 00:12:09,539 --> 00:12:12,497 I've talked about it a little bit, but I've gotten more time 242 00:12:12,497 --> 00:12:15,804 in it and I really liked it. I think — oh, you have it too 243 00:12:15,804 --> 00:12:16,720 now, Matt. Great. 244 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:20,879 It's been really enjoyable and smooth for me. 245 00:12:20,879 --> 00:12:25,940 On the spectrum from firm to soft, it's on the middle to firm 246 00:12:25,940 --> 00:12:28,781 side of things. Like, it's not a squishy pillow 247 00:12:28,781 --> 00:12:31,139 — which I actually appreciated about it. 248 00:12:31,139 --> 00:12:34,499 So I've just been a fan of this shoe. 249 00:12:34,500 --> 00:12:36,298 I've used it for a lot of walking around too. 250 00:12:36,299 --> 00:12:40,007 And it's worked really well. I think for people who want 251 00:12:40,007 --> 00:12:43,684 something that operates off of a pretty gradual but smooth 252 00:12:43,684 --> 00:12:48,088 rocking platform for walking as well — if they want to have 253 00:12:48,088 --> 00:12:52,125 something that decreases demand on their big toe or on their 254 00:12:52,125 --> 00:12:54,900 Achilles — I think this could actually potentially help with 255 00:12:54,900 --> 00:12:57,959 that, in terms of the stiffness that does exist within the shoe. 256 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:02,813 So I've liked this one overall. Nothing fancy, but just very 257 00:13:02,813 --> 00:13:06,899 serviceable as a trainer — really, really been good. 258 00:13:06,899 --> 00:13:10,556 Do you want to say anything else about it, Matt, before I go to 259 00:13:10,556 --> 00:13:13,090 my next one? I am enjoying this shoe so much 260 00:13:13,090 --> 00:13:15,691 more than the first version. I think they cleaned up just a 261 00:13:15,691 --> 00:13:18,190 little bit of the rear foot — for those who are watching, I'm 262 00:13:18,190 --> 00:13:21,087 sorry, I hit my microphone with the shoe — I'm sorry, I hit my 263 00:13:21,087 --> 00:13:23,699 microphone with the shoe. There was just a lot more 264 00:13:23,699 --> 00:13:26,779 posterior flare in version one that made the shoe feel super 265 00:13:26,779 --> 00:13:28,838 slappy. I did not enjoy that — which 266 00:13:28,838 --> 00:13:31,199 Andrea did, because she doesn't land there. 267 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,139 Whereas this has been toned down a little bit in the rear foot. 268 00:13:34,139 --> 00:13:36,538 Again, it's not perfect, but it's better. 269 00:13:36,539 --> 00:13:38,939 And then just a much smoother transition. 270 00:13:38,940 --> 00:13:40,739 I'm getting a little bit more out of the shoe. 271 00:13:40,740 --> 00:13:43,320 I'd also agree it's not the softest thing on the market, but 272 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:45,685 you're definitely aware you are off the ground by a decent 273 00:13:45,685 --> 00:13:47,951 amount. The upper is also like — this is 274 00:13:47,951 --> 00:13:50,519 a knit, right? Am I crazy on that? 275 00:13:50,519 --> 00:13:53,399 It's like a mesh. Mesh-knit, whatever. 276 00:13:53,399 --> 00:13:55,678 It's pretty comfortable. So I've definitely enjoyed that. 277 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,383 I'm hoping to get some more miles out of these and see if 278 00:13:58,383 --> 00:14:00,298 they last. Good. 279 00:14:00,299 --> 00:14:05,056 Another shoe that I have a video out on — it's the Salomon Gravel 280 00:14:05,056 --> 00:14:09,124 Concept shoe, and it was a limited edition shoe, so I won't 281 00:14:09,124 --> 00:14:13,859 take too much time on it. But I will say a couple things. 282 00:14:13,860 --> 00:14:19,764 One, I really loved the midsole. It's a really nice, poppy, 283 00:14:19,764 --> 00:14:24,967 little bit soft — but it just compresses and rebounds with 284 00:14:24,967 --> 00:14:26,819 you. That's super nice. 285 00:14:26,820 --> 00:14:31,604 And so I hope they bring this midsole into other shoes as they 286 00:14:31,604 --> 00:14:34,442 keep going. I mean, the shoe is at a pretty 287 00:14:34,442 --> 00:14:36,538 crazy price point for the type of performance. 288 00:14:36,539 --> 00:14:39,866 You done it. I think it's $250, and it really 289 00:14:39,866 --> 00:14:45,040 is meant to be this kind of hybrid super trainer — so kind 290 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:50,205 of a super shoe trainer for the road and super shoe trainer for 291 00:14:50,205 --> 00:14:52,950 the trails. I don't think it has enough 292 00:14:52,950 --> 00:14:56,195 stability for technical trails and doesn't have enough grip for 293 00:14:56,195 --> 00:14:59,759 it, but it works really well for that road-to-trail type stuff. 294 00:14:59,759 --> 00:15:04,166 The other odd thing about the shoe is the flex point is like 295 00:15:04,166 --> 00:15:08,247 right in the middle of the shoe. There's a plate in here, but I'm 296 00:15:08,247 --> 00:15:10,199 guessing it's only a forefoot plate or something. 297 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,955 I just find that really bizarre. To be fair — like I said — I 298 00:15:13,955 --> 00:15:15,418 have absolutely loved running in this. 299 00:15:15,419 --> 00:15:18,164 Like, in terms of running experience, it's been really 300 00:15:18,164 --> 00:15:20,207 enjoyable. I like that there's a good 301 00:15:20,207 --> 00:15:23,540 cutout here through the rear foot, so that does splay out a 302 00:15:23,540 --> 00:15:26,864 little bit and give a little bit of stability on the slightly 303 00:15:26,864 --> 00:15:29,863 softer foam. The upper is actually really 304 00:15:29,863 --> 00:15:32,455 nice too. So there are a lot of things to 305 00:15:32,455 --> 00:15:34,601 like about it. I'm just curious what their plan 306 00:15:34,601 --> 00:15:38,199 is, because they did a limited edition run — so I don't know if 307 00:15:38,199 --> 00:15:41,026 they're testing the market just to see if people are interested, 308 00:15:41,026 --> 00:15:43,079 or if it's like, "Hey, let's try this. 309 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,576 Let's see how people respond to the midsole and let's put it 310 00:15:45,576 --> 00:15:48,356 into more stuff." I hope they put it into more 311 00:15:48,356 --> 00:15:51,119 stuff because the midsole is really enjoyable, really fun. 312 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:55,536 And like I said, I got a video out on that if you want more of 313 00:15:55,536 --> 00:15:59,543 my thoughts on it. The other shoe I've been getting 314 00:15:59,543 --> 00:16:05,351 some miles in is the new ASICS Novablast 6, and they've made 315 00:16:05,351 --> 00:16:09,707 some pretty significant changes from a structure and composition 316 00:16:09,707 --> 00:16:13,627 standpoint in the midsole. I also created a video that will 317 00:16:13,627 --> 00:16:17,877 probably be out by the time this comes out — or at least close to 318 00:16:17,877 --> 00:16:20,707 it — comparing this to previous versions, because I've really 319 00:16:20,707 --> 00:16:23,748 liked the Novablast series. But what they did is they 320 00:16:23,748 --> 00:16:27,246 created this podular design in the forefoot that is supposed to 321 00:16:27,246 --> 00:16:30,422 enhance that trampoline effect the Novablast has kind of become 322 00:16:30,422 --> 00:16:34,860 known for — where they had that pod, and just in terms of the 323 00:16:34,860 --> 00:16:37,079 geometry, you would bounce off of it. 324 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:41,106 They now took that podular area and they put FlightFoam Turbo² 325 00:16:41,106 --> 00:16:46,958 in that, and you can see it in the bottom of the shoe — but it 326 00:16:46,958 --> 00:16:51,338 actually extends all the way to the entire width of the forefoot 327 00:16:51,338 --> 00:16:54,071 in its full thickness. So it goes all the way up to 328 00:16:54,071 --> 00:16:55,019 where your foot's contacting the ground. 329 00:16:55,019 --> 00:16:58,970 So in theory, this thing would be a lot more poppy, a little 330 00:16:58,970 --> 00:17:02,525 bit more pep. But I don't know why, but I 331 00:17:02,525 --> 00:17:05,199 haven't experienced that. It just feels like another 332 00:17:05,199 --> 00:17:08,582 Novablast — maybe a little bit firmer than the other version, 333 00:17:08,582 --> 00:17:11,038 which doesn't really make a lot of sense. 334 00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:14,957 Even in the heel where there's not that pod — it just feels 335 00:17:14,957 --> 00:17:17,519 firmer. But it's the same other midsole 336 00:17:17,519 --> 00:17:21,538 compound, same stack — a lot of stuff is the same. 337 00:17:21,539 --> 00:17:24,898 They just redid this dual-density midsole in the 338 00:17:24,898 --> 00:17:27,315 forefoot. So if you like the Novablast, 339 00:17:27,315 --> 00:17:29,639 you'll probably enjoy running in this shoe. 340 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:34,591 I think that's safe to say. Matt, did you — you've gotten 341 00:17:34,591 --> 00:17:37,500 some miles in it? Yeah, I've got almost 30, 40 342 00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:39,538 miles in this shoe. I just did a long run in it. 343 00:17:39,539 --> 00:17:42,490 It really took me a second to get over the initial geometry — 344 00:17:42,490 --> 00:17:45,205 just because the way it's set up, there's a heel area, and 345 00:17:45,205 --> 00:17:47,465 just the way things are designed, there's a little bit 346 00:17:47,465 --> 00:17:49,499 more material on the lateral side than the medial. 347 00:17:49,500 --> 00:17:52,087 And it was kind of weird because if you look at it — yeah, 348 00:17:52,087 --> 00:17:55,499 there's a crease point on the lateral side. 349 00:17:55,500 --> 00:17:58,690 So it should collapse laterally — but there's also this like 350 00:17:58,690 --> 00:18:01,880 superior lateral flare right here where — not in the lower 351 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,639 part of the midsole, it's up higher — and it feels like it's 352 00:18:05,639 --> 00:18:08,818 pushing me inward immediately, but it's not at the same time. 353 00:18:08,819 --> 00:18:12,394 So I think what happened is — it looks like they widened the 354 00:18:12,394 --> 00:18:15,685 sole, and Andrea said it felt like she was in a ditch. 355 00:18:15,685 --> 00:18:17,999 Yeah. I asked them about that. 356 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,598 They didn't try to change the ground contact point. 357 00:18:21,599 --> 00:18:24,058 I asked ASICS about that. But yeah, keep going. 358 00:18:24,059 --> 00:18:27,420 So what is this thing? So yeah, they played with the 359 00:18:27,420 --> 00:18:30,058 geometries out here, but not the ground contact. 360 00:18:30,059 --> 00:18:30,538 Right. Right. 361 00:18:30,539 --> 00:18:33,298 But what is this for? What is this for? 362 00:18:33,299 --> 00:18:35,278 They didn't really talk about it. 363 00:18:35,279 --> 00:18:38,913 I could definitely feel it when I'm running that it kind of 364 00:18:38,913 --> 00:18:42,839 pushes me inward a little bit, but I think there are also just 365 00:18:42,839 --> 00:18:46,463 some other components to this shoe where — I think the FF 366 00:18:46,463 --> 00:18:50,087 Blast Max is a tiny bit firmer than the previous version, and 367 00:18:50,087 --> 00:18:51,899 that's just how it feels underfoot. 368 00:18:51,900 --> 00:18:55,379 The FlightFoam Turbo² does take a second to break in. 369 00:18:55,380 --> 00:18:59,398 I think on my long run, I kind of enjoyed it — not from a speed 370 00:18:59,398 --> 00:19:01,657 perspective, because like many Novablasts, this is a very 371 00:19:01,657 --> 00:19:03,840 slappy shoe. I think it's that idea of trying 372 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:05,278 to trampoline you off the forefoot. 373 00:19:05,279 --> 00:19:06,719 Some people are going to like that. 374 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,146 I don't, honestly. It broke in a little bit on the 375 00:19:10,146 --> 00:19:13,567 long run, but it just feels really hard on my anterior 376 00:19:13,567 --> 00:19:17,610 tibialis and all the muscles on the anterior side of my shin — 377 00:19:17,610 --> 00:19:20,098 just controlling that plantarflexion on the way down. 378 00:19:20,099 --> 00:19:23,999 But yeah, it's improved. It's definitely a Novablast. 379 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,446 It feels a little bit lighter. It's just oddly — it took a 380 00:19:27,446 --> 00:19:29,879 while to break in. Now I can appreciate it. 381 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,659 Which kind of aligns with the Superblast 2 a little bit — 382 00:19:33,660 --> 00:19:36,960 where the Superblast 2 kind of found its sweet spot a little 383 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,798 bit later for me in terms of how many miles I got on it. 384 00:19:40,799 --> 00:19:44,351 Yeah, it's definitely not a shoe you put on and go, "Wow." 385 00:19:44,351 --> 00:19:46,798 It's like, "Huh. Okay." 386 00:19:46,799 --> 00:19:49,724 And then, you know, if you're a fan of the Novablast series, 387 00:19:49,724 --> 00:19:52,260 you're going to like it. It's definitely a little bit 388 00:19:52,260 --> 00:19:54,890 different in terms of the geometry, but the core component 389 00:19:54,890 --> 00:19:57,030 is still there. And I think Novablast fans will 390 00:19:57,030 --> 00:19:59,278 like it. I — man. 391 00:19:59,279 --> 00:20:03,658 Yeah — what I like is that they're trying to lean into what 392 00:20:03,658 --> 00:20:06,809 I've loved about the Novablast. So I think conceptually they 393 00:20:06,809 --> 00:20:11,214 have a lot to build off of, and maybe as I get even more miles 394 00:20:11,214 --> 00:20:13,558 on this it'll come alive a little bit. 395 00:20:13,559 --> 00:20:17,581 And I think the other thing ASICS has done in the past — 396 00:20:17,581 --> 00:20:20,980 they didn't specifically speak to why the shaping is exactly as 397 00:20:20,980 --> 00:20:23,687 it is. They sculpted it a certain way 398 00:20:23,687 --> 00:20:26,759 on purpose, I'm sure. But it's not the first time 399 00:20:26,759 --> 00:20:29,601 they've sculpted midsoles. Like, I think back to the first 400 00:20:29,601 --> 00:20:33,033 GlideRide — they had a big concavity on the inside, so it's 401 00:20:33,033 --> 00:20:37,037 kind of bulbous on the inside, and then it had that V shape on 402 00:20:37,037 --> 00:20:39,897 the lateral side. And you would move a little bit 403 00:20:39,897 --> 00:20:42,479 laterally in that shoe. It had a medial bias. 404 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:43,798 So it would push you to the outside. 405 00:20:43,799 --> 00:20:47,399 And so they do that. They play around with stuff. 406 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,999 And I wonder exactly what they were thinking there. 407 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,159 Yeah. It's a Superblast 3. 408 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,369 I have one other shoe that I've been running in, but I can pull 409 00:20:55,369 --> 00:20:56,939 a David and I can't talk about it right now. 410 00:20:56,940 --> 00:20:59,700 So it was awesome. First run in, I was like, "This 411 00:20:59,700 --> 00:21:01,318 would be one of my favorite shoes this year." 412 00:21:01,319 --> 00:21:03,959 Somebody's got to not be able to talk about something. 413 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,419 Exactly. Matt, you got anything else? 414 00:21:06,420 --> 00:21:09,987 I have two other things. I have the Mizuno NeoVista 3, 415 00:21:09,987 --> 00:21:12,899 which I am partially enjoying and partially not. 416 00:21:12,900 --> 00:21:15,838 I am really enjoying the new midsole. 417 00:21:15,839 --> 00:21:18,959 They've got some really good sculpting — I think this is one 418 00:21:18,959 --> 00:21:21,298 of the best versions of the midsole material yet. 419 00:21:21,299 --> 00:21:24,798 Really liking it, bouncy. It is a trainer, but I would 420 00:21:24,798 --> 00:21:27,291 definitely put this in the performance trainer category — 421 00:21:27,291 --> 00:21:30,610 where it can handle easy miles but also does very well doing 422 00:21:30,610 --> 00:21:32,818 some tempo stuff, tempo run kind of efforts. 423 00:21:32,819 --> 00:21:35,523 I did tempo on the treadmill and I was like, "Oh, I'm really 424 00:21:35,523 --> 00:21:37,754 enjoying this." The upper is definitely 425 00:21:37,754 --> 00:21:42,179 streamlined except for one area. It's probably the most snug of 426 00:21:42,179 --> 00:21:45,568 the NeoVista models thus far. A lot of them had a lot of 427 00:21:45,568 --> 00:21:48,519 stretch, a little bit wider. This one fits much more snug and 428 00:21:48,519 --> 00:21:50,459 low volume. So I can appreciate that because 429 00:21:50,459 --> 00:21:53,519 the upper holds a lot better. And I think they really got it — 430 00:21:53,519 --> 00:21:56,261 except for the heel. And what I'm struggling with is 431 00:21:56,261 --> 00:22:01,016 the same thing I struggle with in the NeoZen 2 — is the way the 432 00:22:01,016 --> 00:22:02,918 padding and the heel is designed. 433 00:22:02,918 --> 00:22:05,459 Not a stiff heel counter, so that's fine. 434 00:22:05,460 --> 00:22:08,678 It should work for me. But the padding is thin right at 435 00:22:08,678 --> 00:22:12,650 the back of the calcaneus, and there's this big pod that shoots 436 00:22:12,650 --> 00:22:15,298 out and presses directly on my Achilles tendon. 437 00:22:15,299 --> 00:22:17,939 I really don't like that. So I am running through that. 438 00:22:17,940 --> 00:22:21,255 It is aggravating that. But outside of that, it's a 439 00:22:21,255 --> 00:22:23,400 great shoe. Just that little extra piece 440 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:24,899 right here that's just irritating. 441 00:22:24,900 --> 00:22:27,899 I mean, I'm trying to figure out — can I break it in? 442 00:22:27,900 --> 00:22:30,239 Is it going to get better? But I'm getting miles on it. 443 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,578 So that's the only thing I'm not liking. 444 00:22:32,579 --> 00:22:33,899 Everything else is really interesting. 445 00:22:33,900 --> 00:22:37,560 Some lateral bias because of the way the lateral piece here is 446 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,210 sculpted — which just collapses a lot more on the lateral side 447 00:22:41,210 --> 00:22:43,879 than medial. And yeah, just another 448 00:22:43,879 --> 00:22:47,999 interesting shoe and take on the NeoVista series. 449 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,773 Awesome. Oh, and... 450 00:22:51,773 --> 00:22:59,519 I have the Puma Deviate Nitro Pure. 451 00:22:59,519 --> 00:23:03,248 Yeah — they have a different version of this called the 452 00:23:03,248 --> 00:23:06,298 Impure, and it's really just — I'm just kidding. 453 00:23:06,299 --> 00:23:09,538 I'm just kidding. This is an interesting shoe. 454 00:23:09,539 --> 00:23:11,818 I really enjoy it. I was jogging around in it. 455 00:23:11,819 --> 00:23:14,399 I just got it today. We took Isabel to the park. 456 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,644 My legs are fried. I've done two long runs in a row 457 00:23:16,644 --> 00:23:19,011 because Regina wanted to do a long run, then she wanted to do 458 00:23:19,011 --> 00:23:21,266 a group long run. So my legs are a little trash, 459 00:23:21,266 --> 00:23:23,664 but Isabel was running around and I was jogging around in 460 00:23:23,664 --> 00:23:25,844 this, playing soccer with her, and I'm like, "I'm really 461 00:23:25,844 --> 00:23:28,139 enjoying this." I'm enjoying a non-plated shoe 462 00:23:28,139 --> 00:23:31,100 with a little better foam. I'm like, "Yeah, I'm looking 463 00:23:31,100 --> 00:23:32,639 forward to trying this for a workout." 464 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,578 But so far, so good. The fit is a little bit low 465 00:23:35,578 --> 00:23:37,371 volume. I'm definitely getting a lot of 466 00:23:37,371 --> 00:23:39,419 pressure on the top of my big toe. 467 00:23:39,420 --> 00:23:42,134 So I'm assuming the upper is probably going to need to break 468 00:23:42,134 --> 00:23:45,072 in, or people are probably going to need to consider a half size 469 00:23:45,072 --> 00:23:46,542 up. But outside of that pressure, 470 00:23:46,542 --> 00:23:49,456 it's fine. So, yeah — very interesting so 471 00:23:49,456 --> 00:23:50,759 far. Very excited for it. 472 00:23:50,759 --> 00:23:54,971 Yeah, that's one I'm eager to try out as well because I think 473 00:23:54,971 --> 00:23:58,490 it's $150. Oh gosh — I hate to say it, but 474 00:23:58,490 --> 00:24:01,679 like, that's on the cheaper end of trainers right now. 475 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:06,312 And I think there are other shoes that when I've heard you 476 00:24:06,312 --> 00:24:12,136 talk about it and others talk about it — I'm wondering if it's 477 00:24:12,136 --> 00:24:18,239 like an Adizero SL kind of shoe. Is that the right comparison? 478 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:19,739 Yeah, yeah, yeah. For that shoe? 479 00:24:19,740 --> 00:24:23,520 Yeah, that's kind of the category where companies are 480 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,066 competing. You've got the Pure now from 481 00:24:27,066 --> 00:24:32,797 Puma, the Evo SL from Adidas, the Azura from Saucony, the 482 00:24:32,797 --> 00:24:39,549 Elite — I mean, I know — I'd also say the FuelCell Rebel from 483 00:24:39,549 --> 00:24:42,142 New Balance. I think that fits a little bit 484 00:24:42,142 --> 00:24:45,067 more in this category. I know why you said that, David. 485 00:24:45,067 --> 00:24:49,070 I totally get it. I think the Rebel might fit a 486 00:24:49,070 --> 00:24:52,350 little bit more in that lightweight trainer, performance 487 00:24:52,350 --> 00:24:54,515 trainer type category. Although some people are 488 00:24:54,515 --> 00:24:57,915 probably going to race in that. Yeah, the performance — it's 489 00:24:57,915 --> 00:25:01,506 nice to see the non-plated performance trainer make a 490 00:25:01,506 --> 00:25:05,492 return, because I'm not being negative about plates, but we 491 00:25:05,492 --> 00:25:08,278 don't need one in every single shoe. 492 00:25:08,279 --> 00:25:11,578 It's nice to have just a simple "get out the door" shoe. 493 00:25:11,579 --> 00:25:14,406 If you're new to running, something you might want to run 494 00:25:14,406 --> 00:25:16,976 a little quicker in — like, experience a lighter shoe 495 00:25:16,976 --> 00:25:19,803 without having to drop $300 on something crazy and go, "Hey, 496 00:25:19,803 --> 00:25:24,119 can I still run quick in this?" And I'm totally on a tangent 497 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,501 here. I have not run in a 498 00:25:26,501 --> 00:25:31,019 carbon-plated super shoe for like a month plus now. 499 00:25:31,019 --> 00:25:33,959 Just after the race that didn't go great because I was sick. 500 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,499 I've just been doing everything in non-super shoes. 501 00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:41,354 I mean — it was — the Endorphin Elite 3 is going to work great 502 00:25:41,354 --> 00:25:44,084 for some people. It's too unstable for me on a 503 00:25:44,084 --> 00:25:45,959 hilly course when I'm sick. But yeah. 504 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:51,479 I've just been doing everything in non-super shoes, right? 505 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,097 Super trainers occasionally, but like — it's been an interesting 506 00:25:54,097 --> 00:25:55,679 experience. Great. 507 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,429 But more on that later. Well, that's what we got in for 508 00:25:59,429 --> 00:26:01,282 testing. We always want to thank Scratch 509 00:26:01,282 --> 00:26:03,306 Labs for fueling the in-for-testing segment and what 510 00:26:03,306 --> 00:26:05,399 we've been talking about. Yes, Matt. 511 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:10,199 Okay, so I did go buy my own Scratch stuff. 512 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,519 The — what is it? The cucumber lime? 513 00:26:14,519 --> 00:26:16,799 Is that the flavor they sent? That is... 514 00:26:16,799 --> 00:26:21,634 I judge people so hard. They were like, "I like cucumber 515 00:26:21,634 --> 00:26:25,858 water," and I'm like, ugh. Gross. 516 00:26:25,859 --> 00:26:28,739 Not the cucumber — not the cucumber water. 517 00:26:28,740 --> 00:26:30,419 It's the people — I'm like, "Oh, gross." 518 00:26:30,420 --> 00:26:34,270 But I'm just kidding. But now I'm like, this is so 519 00:26:34,270 --> 00:26:37,499 good and so refreshing. So I have also bought more of 520 00:26:37,499 --> 00:26:39,899 that. Better than watermelon? 521 00:26:39,900 --> 00:26:43,259 Yeah, actually. Yeah. 522 00:26:43,259 --> 00:26:46,558 Because I'm not running. I think it's cucumber lime. 523 00:26:46,559 --> 00:26:48,179 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cucumber lime. 524 00:26:48,180 --> 00:26:50,278 Yeah. So it's great on runs. 525 00:26:50,279 --> 00:26:53,425 The watermelon's also great. I have tons of bags of that 526 00:26:53,425 --> 00:26:55,855 because I bought a bunch, but yeah, man, it's really 527 00:26:55,855 --> 00:26:57,144 refreshing. And it's been very helpful 528 00:26:57,144 --> 00:26:59,652 because one of the things I don't do very well is hydrate 529 00:26:59,652 --> 00:27:01,531 here in Oregon, because I'm like, "Well, it rains 530 00:27:01,531 --> 00:27:02,759 occasionally. So why should I do it?" 531 00:27:02,759 --> 00:27:06,959 Yeah, so just a half scoop — and I know Scratch has a non-caloric 532 00:27:06,959 --> 00:27:10,559 version — a half scoop is really helpful for getting me to 533 00:27:10,559 --> 00:27:13,199 hydrate throughout the day. So yeah, it's really good. 534 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,930 And I am very embarrassed that I made fun of people that like 535 00:27:15,930 --> 00:27:18,358 this. So maybe that's karma. 536 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,818 I love to hear it. I'll try it when I go back. 537 00:27:20,819 --> 00:27:23,563 Well, if you want to try it, I'll bring some when I come to 538 00:27:23,563 --> 00:27:25,043 work in a couple days. Nice. 539 00:27:25,043 --> 00:27:29,098 Tomorrow's Memorial Day — not going to be there. 540 00:27:29,099 --> 00:27:33,420 Yes. If you are wanting to try out 541 00:27:33,420 --> 00:27:37,020 any Scratch Labs stuff for any of your hydration, nutrition, 542 00:27:37,020 --> 00:27:40,260 in-run or out-of-run needs, you can go to scratchlabs.com. 543 00:27:40,260 --> 00:27:43,500 You can use the code DOCTORSOFRUNNING — that would 544 00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:46,019 get you 20% off your first order. 545 00:27:46,019 --> 00:27:49,078 But today we need to do a mailbag. 546 00:27:49,079 --> 00:27:52,331 Mailbags are always a good time. We've got lots of really fun 547 00:27:52,331 --> 00:27:55,645 questions from people all over the place in different phases of 548 00:27:55,645 --> 00:27:59,558 life, and we get to talk through some of the things that they've 549 00:27:59,558 --> 00:28:02,869 got impressed on their minds because of what's going on in 550 00:28:02,869 --> 00:28:05,578 their lives. And we're going to talk about it 551 00:28:05,578 --> 00:28:06,899 here. This isn't medical advice. 552 00:28:06,900 --> 00:28:11,568 We're just trying to use these topics as a launching point to 553 00:28:11,568 --> 00:28:15,450 talk about different ideas and how we may approach them 554 00:28:15,450 --> 00:28:17,999 hypothetically. So let's jump into it. 555 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,239 The first question is from Marius, and they're asking this. 556 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,199 "I wanted to ask your advice on replacing the Brooks Hyperion 2. 557 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,038 I really love the shoe because of its versatility, firm and 558 00:28:29,038 --> 00:28:30,778 direct ride, and close-to-the-ground feeling. 559 00:28:30,779 --> 00:28:34,945 I use it for a wide range of faster running — from 5K pace 560 00:28:34,945 --> 00:28:37,618 workouts to tempo runs and sometimes even easier runs. 561 00:28:37,619 --> 00:28:42,119 So roughly about 2:30 per kilometer to 5 minutes per 562 00:28:42,119 --> 00:28:45,779 kilometer pace. I also have a normal daily 563 00:28:45,779 --> 00:28:48,538 trainer for easy and recovery runs. 564 00:28:48,539 --> 00:28:51,339 So the replacement doesn't necessarily need to cover all of 565 00:28:51,339 --> 00:28:55,008 my easy mileage as well. However, I value the Hyperion 2 566 00:28:55,008 --> 00:28:59,166 because it feels controlled and natural enough to handle a broad 567 00:28:59,166 --> 00:29:02,243 range of paces. I was thinking about the Adidas 568 00:29:02,243 --> 00:29:05,807 Adizero Adios 9 as a possible replacement, but would love to 569 00:29:05,807 --> 00:29:08,399 hear your thoughts and what you would recommend. 570 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,118 Would you recommend the Adios 9 or something different? 571 00:29:12,119 --> 00:29:17,651 But if one shoe can't replace it, they would also be open to a 572 00:29:17,651 --> 00:29:21,908 two-shoe setup — one shoe for the really faster workouts, one 573 00:29:21,908 --> 00:29:25,778 more versatile daily option that could keep that direct contact 574 00:29:25,778 --> 00:29:28,798 and natural feel. What do y'all think?" 575 00:29:28,799 --> 00:29:33,239 Matt's holding up the shoe. I am. 576 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:38,100 Rest in peace, Hyperion 2. There's not a lot of stuff on 577 00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:41,399 the market anymore like that. I'm curious, David, Nathan — can 578 00:29:41,399 --> 00:29:43,499 you think of anything that's remotely similar? 579 00:29:43,500 --> 00:29:45,419 Topo Cyclone 3. That's all I got. 580 00:29:45,420 --> 00:29:48,358 That's literally what I had. I wrote it down beforehand. 581 00:29:48,359 --> 00:29:51,422 I'm like, "Topo Cyclone 3 was..." like the closest 582 00:29:51,422 --> 00:29:55,613 comparison I can think of where it's a relatively natural feel, 583 00:29:55,613 --> 00:29:59,042 good foam, contained, can run really fast in it. 584 00:29:59,042 --> 00:30:03,233 And the Hyperion — here's the challenge — the Hyperion didn't 585 00:30:03,233 --> 00:30:07,078 have like a fancy, magical foam. You said Spectre, right? 586 00:30:07,079 --> 00:30:09,598 No, no — that's the Cyclone. No, no, no. 587 00:30:09,599 --> 00:30:10,379 Cyclone. Cyclone. 588 00:30:10,380 --> 00:30:12,179 The Cyclone does have a super foam. 589 00:30:12,180 --> 00:30:14,547 Yeah, it's PEBA, but it's like — it's modern. 590 00:30:14,547 --> 00:30:16,089 It's a PEBA foam. It is. 591 00:30:16,089 --> 00:30:18,538 And it's not that — it's not that soft though. 592 00:30:18,539 --> 00:30:22,259 It feels like a normal foam. I mean, to me it doesn't. 593 00:30:22,259 --> 00:30:26,345 But — okay, fine. Cyclone, not Spectre — where the 594 00:30:26,345 --> 00:30:28,798 Spectre is much higher up. The Cyclone is like, what? 595 00:30:28,799 --> 00:30:31,318 I don't even know if it's over 30. 596 00:30:31,319 --> 00:30:34,139 It's definitely in the lower stack range. 597 00:30:34,140 --> 00:30:36,615 So I think you two are right. I think that might be the 598 00:30:36,615 --> 00:30:38,975 closest thing. The only challenge to that — and 599 00:30:38,975 --> 00:30:42,132 correct me if I'm wrong — the Hyperion is an 8-millimeter 600 00:30:42,132 --> 00:30:43,344 drop. Where that you're going to get a 601 00:30:43,344 --> 00:30:45,735 little bit lower. So if you're going to make that 602 00:30:45,735 --> 00:30:49,147 transition, be aware that you're going to have to let your calves 603 00:30:49,147 --> 00:30:51,419 and Achilles tendons get used to that stuff. 604 00:30:51,420 --> 00:30:55,798 The Adios 9 is very similar. It's much lighter. 605 00:30:55,799 --> 00:30:59,201 I have done tons of miles in the shoe and I feel very embarrassed 606 00:30:59,201 --> 00:31:01,139 that I never actually went and reviewed it. 607 00:31:01,140 --> 00:31:03,778 I really need to do that. It's been awesome. 608 00:31:03,779 --> 00:31:06,533 It's a very simple shoe. It's definitely priced a little 609 00:31:06,533 --> 00:31:08,999 bit higher than what it is, in my opinion. 610 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,338 It's kind of like one of the old school racing shoes. 611 00:31:11,339 --> 00:31:14,931 Not stiff at all. There's a little midfoot shank 612 00:31:14,931 --> 00:31:18,896 in there. Very — gosh, why am I blanking 613 00:31:18,896 --> 00:31:22,312 on it — the Lightstrike Pro foam. 614 00:31:22,312 --> 00:31:26,212 Really, really nice, simple, simple, simple, but quick 615 00:31:26,212 --> 00:31:27,935 feeling. A much better ground feel 616 00:31:27,935 --> 00:31:30,652 compared to many of the other things out there, which makes 617 00:31:30,652 --> 00:31:32,098 sense. It's under 30 millimeters. 618 00:31:32,099 --> 00:31:35,391 That said, it's going to be much lighter and more aggressive than 619 00:31:35,391 --> 00:31:37,740 the Hyperion. So kind of a two-shoe setup 620 00:31:37,740 --> 00:31:41,338 might be — hey, use something like this for your faster stuff. 621 00:31:41,339 --> 00:31:44,689 It's definitely fine as a trainer for people that do 622 00:31:44,689 --> 00:31:46,859 minimal distance. The durability is phenomenal, by 623 00:31:46,859 --> 00:31:50,414 the way. I have like 60, 70 miles and I'm 624 00:31:50,414 --> 00:31:52,259 not wearing through anything here. 625 00:31:52,259 --> 00:31:54,817 This has been great. That said, it's more of a fast 626 00:31:54,817 --> 00:31:58,165 shoe for most people, so you'd have to have something you could 627 00:31:58,165 --> 00:32:00,118 transition with — and maybe the Cyclone. 628 00:32:00,119 --> 00:32:04,224 I just said that wrong again. The Cyclone — maybe as a better 629 00:32:04,224 --> 00:32:07,679 all-arounder, because that's kind of how it's designed. 630 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,318 So that's my opinion. Sorry that took so long. 631 00:32:10,319 --> 00:32:14,459 The other one — kind of the Adizero SL from Adidas. 632 00:32:14,460 --> 00:32:16,499 That one feels like it's kind of adjacent. 633 00:32:16,500 --> 00:32:20,159 It's a little bit higher up, but — Evo SL. 634 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:24,090 Yeah, sorry. Not Adizero SL, so — that's 635 00:32:24,090 --> 00:32:27,000 higher. That's not quite in the moderate 636 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,679 stack height range. I might be wrong. 637 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:35,038 I'm pretty sure that's more like 35 plus. 638 00:32:35,039 --> 00:32:37,558 Yeah. Was it? 639 00:32:37,559 --> 00:32:42,298 It was 35. Yeah, the Evo SL is 37/30. 640 00:32:42,299 --> 00:32:44,699 That one doesn't have as much of that ground feel, though. 641 00:32:44,700 --> 00:32:49,795 Like, the way that the foam feels — the Hyperion 2 really 642 00:32:49,795 --> 00:32:51,788 did. And then the Hyperion 3 was — 643 00:32:51,788 --> 00:32:53,578 I'm not even going to talk about it. 644 00:32:53,579 --> 00:32:57,838 But the Cyclone 3 is my top choice. 645 00:32:57,839 --> 00:33:00,778 I'm just coming up with other things that are semi-similar. 646 00:33:00,779 --> 00:33:04,329 I think you're right. Cyclone is a really great 647 00:33:04,329 --> 00:33:06,569 option. Just going to be a different fit 648 00:33:06,569 --> 00:33:08,939 — Hyperion 2 actually had a surprisingly wide fit. 649 00:33:08,940 --> 00:33:11,047 Remember us talking about it? A little bit low volume in the 650 00:33:11,047 --> 00:33:12,838 midfoot, wider in the forefoot. Yeah. 651 00:33:12,839 --> 00:33:15,479 Yep. It's nice foam. 652 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:16,798 RIP. Yeah, it was great. 653 00:33:16,799 --> 00:33:22,139 RIP, man. RIP, Hyperion GTS 2 as well. 654 00:33:22,140 --> 00:33:24,598 Yeah. Cry. 655 00:33:24,599 --> 00:33:28,092 That was a big day. I think we might have shed a 656 00:33:28,092 --> 00:33:31,078 single tear. Yeah, shed a lot more than that. 657 00:33:31,079 --> 00:33:35,922 I might have shed two. Hey, you know, all would be 658 00:33:35,922 --> 00:33:40,487 forgiven if Brooks is like, "Hey, we've had the Hyperion 659 00:33:40,487 --> 00:33:42,630 Elite GTS. We've been hiding it from you, 660 00:33:42,630 --> 00:33:46,139 but we're going to release it." All would be forgiven. 661 00:33:46,140 --> 00:33:50,399 Hey, now it's out in the ether. Maybe somebody will pick it up. 662 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,865 All right, our next question is from Stuart, and Stuart asked 663 00:33:53,865 --> 00:33:55,558 this. "Enjoy your site. 664 00:33:55,559 --> 00:33:58,793 Find it very informative. My wife is having issues with 665 00:33:58,793 --> 00:34:01,439 what has been diagnosed as Achilles tendinopathy. 666 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,790 Your article on the subject was quite helpful, especially the 667 00:34:04,790 --> 00:34:07,296 shoe recommendations. She cannot run due to physical 668 00:34:07,296 --> 00:34:11,568 issues, but likes to go on 4 to 5 mile brisk walks to help 669 00:34:11,568 --> 00:34:13,559 maintain fitness. Additionally, we both wear 670 00:34:13,559 --> 00:34:17,346 indoor shoes — just shoes for around the house that don't 671 00:34:17,346 --> 00:34:20,098 leave the house for cleanliness and hygienic reasons. 672 00:34:20,099 --> 00:34:22,618 So she's looking for two pairs to help with her pain. 673 00:34:22,619 --> 00:34:26,098 She's icing a lot and has cut back on the walks. 674 00:34:26,099 --> 00:34:28,318 I understand your recommendation. 675 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,659 Your recommended shoes are for running, but figured there would 676 00:34:30,659 --> 00:34:32,759 still be a good list for walking as well. 677 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,607 We were looking at some of the shoes on the list, but found 678 00:34:35,607 --> 00:34:37,138 that the generation of shoes has changed. 679 00:34:37,139 --> 00:34:41,398 So — cue for us to go update the article with the new shoes — 680 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,998 what would be the best fit. For example, in the article it 681 00:34:43,998 --> 00:34:47,083 says Nimbus 27. It's been replaced by the 28, et 682 00:34:47,083 --> 00:34:48,716 cetera. The question is this — and I 683 00:34:48,716 --> 00:34:51,719 think this is a good talking point — would we be safe in 684 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,018 going with the newer version of the shoes on the list? 685 00:34:55,018 --> 00:34:58,919 Or is it likely that there was enough change that we should not 686 00:34:58,919 --> 00:35:01,619 assume they would be appropriate to help with Achilles 687 00:35:01,619 --> 00:35:03,992 tendinopathy?" Since I was one of the people 688 00:35:03,992 --> 00:35:06,943 that wrote that, I would say: be careful with that. 689 00:35:06,943 --> 00:35:10,483 We need to go update it, just because there have been some 690 00:35:10,483 --> 00:35:13,433 very aggressive changes recently — whereas in the past, people 691 00:35:13,433 --> 00:35:16,383 used to complain that, "Oh, companies don't really make big 692 00:35:16,383 --> 00:35:18,629 changes." Now it's the opposite, where 693 00:35:18,629 --> 00:35:22,919 every version — bam — totally new shoe, big changes, stuff 694 00:35:22,919 --> 00:35:25,267 like that. So the nice part is that those 695 00:35:25,267 --> 00:35:27,507 shoes, while they are a generation older, are still on 696 00:35:27,507 --> 00:35:29,963 the market, and so they're still going to be available — 697 00:35:29,963 --> 00:35:32,098 hopefully at a cheaper price. So that's still relevant. 698 00:35:32,099 --> 00:35:33,718 The new stuff's going to be different. 699 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,917 The new Nimbus is a stiffer shoe, and I found that while I 700 00:35:36,917 --> 00:35:39,868 like the snappiness, it did put a little bit more pressure on 701 00:35:39,868 --> 00:35:42,808 the Achilles tendons — because if you have a shoe that's too 702 00:35:42,808 --> 00:35:45,503 stiff, even if it is rockered, and you're pushing into that, 703 00:35:45,503 --> 00:35:47,218 it's more load through the Achilles tendon. 704 00:35:47,219 --> 00:35:50,818 So I would go with that list, and we'll go update it for sure. 705 00:35:50,820 --> 00:35:53,038 But I would be cautious of that a little bit. 706 00:35:53,039 --> 00:35:57,714 I think, interestingly, there has been a change in the pattern 707 00:35:57,714 --> 00:36:02,802 for shoe updates — beyond just how companies choose to make one 708 00:36:02,802 --> 00:36:07,720 version to the next. I feel like even 5 years ago, it 709 00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:12,589 would be: year one is kind of an overhaul, year two is an upper 710 00:36:12,589 --> 00:36:16,010 update, year three is more of an overhaul, year four is an upper 711 00:36:16,010 --> 00:36:18,898 update, year five — and it was kind of following that pattern. 712 00:36:18,900 --> 00:36:23,667 Now some companies are spreading out their release timing — so 713 00:36:23,667 --> 00:36:27,875 instead of every year, a release — now they might do 18 months or 714 00:36:27,875 --> 00:36:30,230 even 24 months. I think that's changing the 715 00:36:30,230 --> 00:36:33,928 approach for these updates where they're a little bit more 716 00:36:33,928 --> 00:36:37,618 involved, versus just trying to crank out a new model. 717 00:36:37,619 --> 00:36:40,673 I think that's what you're talking about there, Matt, with 718 00:36:40,673 --> 00:36:44,278 — these shoes aren't just a quick upper update. 719 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,278 There's actual substantive change for a lot of the models. 720 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,828 That's not all of them, but I think it's harder to just assume 721 00:36:49,828 --> 00:36:52,800 it's going to be the same. In terms of shoes I would 722 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,700 suggest — and I had mentioned it for my in-for-testing — if they 723 00:36:56,700 --> 00:37:00,300 were liking the Nimbus 27, I would go check out the Magnify 724 00:37:00,300 --> 00:37:03,092 Max 2. I think that would be a great 725 00:37:03,092 --> 00:37:06,112 walking shoe. I would also check out the Ghost 726 00:37:06,112 --> 00:37:09,538 Max — 3 or 4 now. Sorry — Ghost Max 4. 727 00:37:09,539 --> 00:37:14,124 Those could be options for this situation that would be good for 728 00:37:14,124 --> 00:37:16,798 that walking use with that rocker profile. 729 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:18,157 Yeah, man. Because what Nathan's talking 730 00:37:18,157 --> 00:37:21,004 about is — yeah, it's nice to have a little bit higher drop. 731 00:37:21,004 --> 00:37:23,194 And we're going to actually probably hit this question a 732 00:37:23,194 --> 00:37:25,603 little bit later, but there aren't really a ton of high-drop 733 00:37:25,603 --> 00:37:27,598 shoes anymore on the market. They're kind of all gone. 734 00:37:27,599 --> 00:37:31,408 So the other thing is — a little higher drop, a little more 735 00:37:31,408 --> 00:37:34,042 rocker profile, especially in the forefoot, will help offload 736 00:37:34,042 --> 00:37:36,782 the Achilles tendon. So yeah, I think the Magnify Max 737 00:37:36,782 --> 00:37:39,478 2 is a great option for that. That was a great suggestion. 738 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,008 Yeah, I was thinking — you could either go with the rocker design 739 00:37:43,008 --> 00:37:45,718 or the high drop, or a little bit of both. 740 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:50,629 But I like Ghost Max. I like — oh my gosh, I'm 741 00:37:50,629 --> 00:37:52,078 blanking. You just said it. 742 00:37:52,079 --> 00:37:54,418 And it's all the stuff you said is good. 743 00:37:54,420 --> 00:37:58,020 The only other one I'm thinking of — and I see it in the image 744 00:37:58,020 --> 00:38:00,178 behind Klein there — is the On Cloudrunner 3. 745 00:38:00,179 --> 00:38:03,287 I like that option. A little bit more flexible up 746 00:38:03,287 --> 00:38:06,743 front, but it's a firmer sole, a little bit higher drop, wider 747 00:38:06,743 --> 00:38:08,759 base, and it's an excellent walking shoe. 748 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,238 One of my favorite walking shoes on the market right now, period. 749 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:16,798 It's on your right. Oh, you're grabbing the Vomero? 750 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,678 No, I'm grabbing — I'm grabbing something... 751 00:38:19,679 --> 00:38:21,299 Yeah. And that's not a bad option 752 00:38:21,299 --> 00:38:22,198 either. Another good one. 753 00:38:22,199 --> 00:38:25,479 Yeah, that's another good one. Probably one of the higher-drop 754 00:38:25,479 --> 00:38:27,927 shoes out there, but very rockered in the forefoot, 755 00:38:27,927 --> 00:38:29,458 especially. That's good. 756 00:38:29,460 --> 00:38:32,077 I think this is one of the best Nike trainers out there right 757 00:38:32,077 --> 00:38:33,358 now. It's an excellent shoe. 758 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:34,860 I do like that shoe. Yep. 759 00:38:34,860 --> 00:38:38,129 So there are some options. So I'm going to actually jump us 760 00:38:38,129 --> 00:38:41,343 — jump us to another question that's kind of in line with 761 00:38:41,343 --> 00:38:44,346 this, and we can always circle back if we need to. 762 00:38:44,346 --> 00:38:46,794 But this is Kenneth writing about the loss of 763 00:38:46,794 --> 00:38:49,498 12-millimeter-drop shoes. This is what Kenneth says. 764 00:38:49,500 --> 00:38:51,588 "Maddie, who owns our local running store, recommended that 765 00:38:51,588 --> 00:38:55,066 I listen to one of your podcasts a year ago, and I've been a fan 766 00:38:55,066 --> 00:38:57,145 ever since. I'm hoping that you can help me 767 00:38:57,145 --> 00:39:00,110 solve my problem. I've always been susceptible to 768 00:39:00,110 --> 00:39:03,644 Achilles tendinosis. I'm 60 and average 20 miles per 769 00:39:03,644 --> 00:39:05,599 week. Historically, I had a midfoot 770 00:39:05,599 --> 00:39:09,703 strike, but as I've slowed down with age, I seem to heel strike 771 00:39:09,703 --> 00:39:11,278 more. Sidebar — totally cool. 772 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,498 That's totally fine. Here we go. 773 00:39:13,500 --> 00:39:18,848 The Brooks Ghost became my go-to shoe years ago, and I rarely had 774 00:39:18,848 --> 00:39:20,680 flare-ups. Unfortunately, the change from 775 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,230 12-millimeter to 10-millimeter drop in the Ghost 17 didn't work 776 00:39:24,230 --> 00:39:27,418 well for me, leading to more frequent Achilles issues. 777 00:39:27,420 --> 00:39:31,278 I did listen to your show with Dr. Karin Silbernagel on 778 00:39:31,278 --> 00:39:34,127 Achilles injuries. Sidebar again — if y'all haven't 779 00:39:34,127 --> 00:39:36,488 listened to that, go back and find it. 780 00:39:36,488 --> 00:39:39,083 Phenomenal episode. She's a wealth of knowledge on 781 00:39:39,083 --> 00:39:42,423 Achilles injuries, and I have been much more consistent with 782 00:39:42,423 --> 00:39:44,759 strengthening exercises, which have helped a lot. 783 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,032 You've mentioned that with current designs, drop isn't 784 00:39:47,032 --> 00:39:50,432 everything, but it isn't clear to me what else I should be 785 00:39:50,432 --> 00:39:52,958 looking for. Can you explain what shoe 786 00:39:52,958 --> 00:39:56,868 geometry and features I should look for, and suggest some 787 00:39:56,868 --> 00:40:00,778 neutral shoes I might try to replace my trusty Ghosts?" 788 00:40:00,780 --> 00:40:05,506 So I can jump in on this because this individual fits right in 789 00:40:05,506 --> 00:40:09,624 with my research population. And yeah — past 58, it's one of, 790 00:40:09,624 --> 00:40:13,282 as we become masters runners, it's one of the injuries we're 791 00:40:13,282 --> 00:40:16,457 most susceptible to. I'm going to go on a little 792 00:40:16,457 --> 00:40:20,798 sidebar and talk about the fact that — yeah — there are no more 793 00:40:20,798 --> 00:40:21,898 high-drop shoes. Okay? 794 00:40:21,900 --> 00:40:24,682 The highest you're going to find is 10 — Nike makes a good number 795 00:40:24,682 --> 00:40:26,458 of them, Brooks makes a good number of them. 796 00:40:26,460 --> 00:40:29,066 That's really it. Except — actually — the Saucony 797 00:40:29,066 --> 00:40:31,378 Triumph 24, David — is that 10, right? 798 00:40:31,380 --> 00:40:34,918 Oh, that's a good question. 43 stack. 799 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:40,952 I think it's either 8 or 10. Yeah, so there are not as many 800 00:40:40,952 --> 00:40:43,318 out there as there used to be, right? 801 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,914 Most of them sit in the 6 to 8 millimeter range — which is 802 00:40:46,914 --> 00:40:49,730 decent for most people, but for those with Achilles issues, it's 803 00:40:49,730 --> 00:40:51,778 not the most fun thing in the world. 804 00:40:51,780 --> 00:40:54,178 I have struggled with this problem. 805 00:40:54,179 --> 00:40:57,958 And so the things that can be helpful — like we just mentioned 806 00:40:57,958 --> 00:41:01,199 earlier — is a forefoot rocker. And a forefoot rocker is 807 00:41:01,199 --> 00:41:04,198 basically this upward curve in the front of the shoe. 808 00:41:04,199 --> 00:41:07,751 What that does — naturally in your foot, you have a forefoot 809 00:41:07,751 --> 00:41:10,711 rocker: it's your toes being able to extend and naturally 810 00:41:10,711 --> 00:41:13,078 roll you over the front of your foot. 811 00:41:13,079 --> 00:41:16,432 If they couldn't do that, it'd be like trying to get over a 812 00:41:16,432 --> 00:41:19,002 stiff board, which would create more stress on the Achilles 813 00:41:19,002 --> 00:41:20,816 tendon. That's fine if you're running 814 00:41:20,816 --> 00:41:22,993 fast. If you're just trying to run 815 00:41:22,993 --> 00:41:26,414 efficiently and save energy and reduce stress on the foot and 816 00:41:26,414 --> 00:41:29,367 ankle, that's really important. And that's where a shoe like the 817 00:41:29,367 --> 00:41:32,536 Magnify Max 2 — where anyone that has this large curve in the 818 00:41:32,536 --> 00:41:35,209 front can actually take pressure off the Achilles and the calf 819 00:41:35,209 --> 00:41:38,368 and allow you to roll forward more — you just know it's going 820 00:41:38,368 --> 00:41:40,798 to shift workload up towards your knee and your hip. 821 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,798 Now, not every forefoot rocker is made the same. 822 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,383 If it's a really long forefoot rocker — it starts far back. 823 00:41:47,383 --> 00:41:48,718 Those tend to be better for this. 824 00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,931 The ones that are really short and steep — those tend to add a 825 00:41:51,931 --> 00:41:54,614 lot of stiffness. So it still depends: the quality 826 00:41:54,614 --> 00:41:56,938 of it, what that geometry looks like. 827 00:41:56,940 --> 00:42:00,936 There's a little nuance there. I was going to say — what's 828 00:42:00,936 --> 00:42:03,671 important with that — it's not just that it has the visual 829 00:42:03,671 --> 00:42:05,264 curve. It's also got to be kind of 830 00:42:05,264 --> 00:42:07,336 stiff. Like if it just flexes all the 831 00:42:07,336 --> 00:42:09,480 way, then it's not really a rocker platform. 832 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,955 I think of the 1080 or even the Triumph — which is a 833 00:42:12,955 --> 00:42:14,557 10-millimeter drop, you said, David, right? 834 00:42:14,557 --> 00:42:15,958 You confirm that. It's too flexible. 835 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,958 So you don't actually operate on a rocker. 836 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:23,054 It's got to be something you can't bend much in your hands 837 00:42:23,054 --> 00:42:26,218 from front to back. Well, that's a helpful feature. 838 00:42:26,219 --> 00:42:27,718 Yeah. So Nathan's absolutely right. 839 00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,249 It's got to be a stiff forefoot rocker that'll help maintain 840 00:42:30,249 --> 00:42:31,590 that. And it's got to feel 841 00:42:31,590 --> 00:42:33,810 comfortable, because there are even ones that'll be too stiff, 842 00:42:33,810 --> 00:42:36,397 and that works against you. So it's got to be the right 843 00:42:36,397 --> 00:42:38,929 stiffness, the right geometry — just for you — and you're not 844 00:42:38,929 --> 00:42:41,458 going to know that until you go try a few things on. 845 00:42:41,460 --> 00:42:45,652 Now, there is something I have done that's been an external 846 00:42:45,652 --> 00:42:47,938 add-on that's been much more helpful. 847 00:42:47,940 --> 00:42:51,118 And that comes in with adding a heel lift. 848 00:42:51,119 --> 00:42:54,227 I've had some flares so bad that the only way to keep going — 849 00:42:54,227 --> 00:42:56,218 even walking — was to add a heel lift. 850 00:42:56,219 --> 00:42:59,098 Now, I've tried about eight different types. 851 00:42:59,099 --> 00:43:01,498 I went and ordered all these different things off Amazon. 852 00:43:01,500 --> 00:43:03,600 They're only a couple bucks. I went, "Hey, let me try these 853 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,000 out." And I probably need to write a 854 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,498 review at some point. But the ones I like the most — 855 00:43:07,500 --> 00:43:10,318 these are $9 on Amazon — is ProFoot. 856 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,658 We have no financial relationship with them. 857 00:43:12,659 --> 00:43:13,858 They have no idea we're doing this. 858 00:43:13,860 --> 00:43:17,570 I like this the best because it fit the best and stayed the most 859 00:43:17,570 --> 00:43:20,218 secure out of all the different heel lifts I tried. 860 00:43:20,219 --> 00:43:22,929 A heel lift — basically, you put it underneath the insole of the 861 00:43:22,929 --> 00:43:25,798 shoe, and it just lifts your heel up a little bit and creates 862 00:43:25,798 --> 00:43:27,741 a higher drop. Now, the 10-millimeter-drop 863 00:43:27,741 --> 00:43:32,698 shoes don't work well with it. It makes the shoe too high drop. 864 00:43:32,699 --> 00:43:34,811 It's too much. They tend to work better with 865 00:43:34,811 --> 00:43:37,429 shoes that are more in that 6 to 8-millimeter-drop range, 866 00:43:37,429 --> 00:43:39,778 especially 6 — because this adds quite a bit. 867 00:43:39,780 --> 00:43:43,440 So if you're still going, "I like this shoe, it's not high 868 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,678 enough drop for me" — you can totally add one of these in. 869 00:43:46,679 --> 00:43:49,279 They're flexible in terms of you can pull them out, put them in 870 00:43:49,279 --> 00:43:50,578 another shoe. They're very cheap. 871 00:43:50,579 --> 00:43:53,394 You can use them in rotation. So a heel lift has been really 872 00:43:53,394 --> 00:43:56,839 helpful for me when things have been too flared up and I just 873 00:43:56,839 --> 00:43:59,278 need to offload stuff. So that may be great. 874 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:03,322 And what I like about the ProFoot is the foam — it 875 00:44:03,322 --> 00:44:05,338 integrates super well with other midsoles. 876 00:44:05,340 --> 00:44:07,410 Some of the other ones were either stiff and I could feel 877 00:44:07,410 --> 00:44:09,485 they were in there. This one just feels like it's 878 00:44:09,485 --> 00:44:12,257 lifting me up and I don't feel anything else, which has been 879 00:44:12,257 --> 00:44:14,638 really nice. It's another option. 880 00:44:14,639 --> 00:44:16,738 David, do you have more thoughts? 881 00:44:16,739 --> 00:44:19,124 I think that's great. I mean, I was thinking heel 882 00:44:19,124 --> 00:44:20,959 lifts myself. I didn't have a company name to 883 00:44:20,959 --> 00:44:23,158 drop though, so I'm going to take that note for myself. 884 00:44:23,159 --> 00:44:25,666 And who knows? I might even go purchase one 885 00:44:25,666 --> 00:44:28,564 right after we get off and try it out for my own foot and 886 00:44:28,564 --> 00:44:31,352 Achilles stuff. So it was the foot first, and 887 00:44:31,352 --> 00:44:33,718 then my Achilles, and now it's both. 888 00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:35,638 Love it. Yeah. 889 00:44:35,639 --> 00:44:37,648 Yep. Although the Achilles is 890 00:44:37,648 --> 00:44:40,078 starting to feel better — now it's more just the foot again. 891 00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:44,879 I think it just needs to rest. My reflection on this question 892 00:44:44,879 --> 00:44:49,919 was — one, huge kudos to them for picking up the idea of doing 893 00:44:49,919 --> 00:44:53,159 the hard work first, like, "Let's do the strengthening 894 00:44:53,159 --> 00:44:55,679 thing." And then the second is what 895 00:44:55,679 --> 00:44:59,279 y'all already have said: the real features you're looking for 896 00:44:59,279 --> 00:45:03,959 are a slightly higher drop where you can find it, but then really 897 00:45:03,959 --> 00:45:08,639 that stiff rocker platform — one that's a bit more gradual — will 898 00:45:08,639 --> 00:45:10,263 be the most helpful. Yep. 899 00:45:10,263 --> 00:45:13,012 And if you can't find the higher drop you want on a shoe that you 900 00:45:13,012 --> 00:45:18,238 like — throw in a heel lift. $9 for two, by the way. $9 for two. 901 00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:20,158 There are a couple companies that did $10 for one. 902 00:45:20,159 --> 00:45:24,783 And I was like, I'm not going to create a greater leg length 903 00:45:24,783 --> 00:45:27,418 asymmetry. It is totally normal. 904 00:45:27,420 --> 00:45:30,178 Yeah, put it in both. Just to clarify, by the way — 905 00:45:30,179 --> 00:45:34,000 it's very rare for people to actually have legs of the same 906 00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:35,038 length. We are asymmetrical creatures. 907 00:45:35,039 --> 00:45:37,798 We are asymmetrical creatures. So that's just the way we are. 908 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,838 But don't create a much larger one. 909 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,649 Yeah, do both. All right, here's our next 910 00:45:43,649 --> 00:45:44,998 question. This is from Jack. 911 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,209 Jack asks this. "I've been a longtime lurker 912 00:45:48,209 --> 00:45:51,779 slash reader of your website. And I really appreciate..." 913 00:45:51,779 --> 00:45:54,118 I love that word. Oh my gosh. 914 00:45:54,119 --> 00:45:56,710 I do. "I appreciate the level of 915 00:45:56,710 --> 00:45:59,158 detail you go into when reviewing shoes. 916 00:45:59,159 --> 00:46:02,578 I was wondering if you'd be able to help recommend me a pair. 917 00:46:02,579 --> 00:46:06,574 I'm looking to invest in some road-to-trail runners for — you 918 00:46:06,574 --> 00:46:09,478 guessed it — road-to-trail running and some walking. 919 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:13,498 I run on pavement, through fields, and on gravelly paths. 920 00:46:13,500 --> 00:46:17,736 Important to note is that I have a wider than average lateral 921 00:46:17,736 --> 00:46:22,322 lower midfoot — as in, the lower part of my midfoot sticks out 922 00:46:22,322 --> 00:46:25,138 considerably more than the rest of my foot. 923 00:46:25,139 --> 00:46:29,791 I have a naturally low arch, and I frequently break through toe 924 00:46:29,791 --> 00:46:32,499 boxes. So anything with toe protection 925 00:46:32,499 --> 00:46:37,318 on the big toe is great. Do people have thoughts?" 926 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:42,358 Salomon Aeroglide Gravel? Gravel. 927 00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:43,798 Yeah, that's literally what I wrote. 928 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,858 Oh, they have kind of their gravel version... 929 00:46:46,860 --> 00:46:49,198 So like, that aggravated the lateral side of my foot. 930 00:46:49,199 --> 00:46:52,558 Personally. Version 3 was a lot better. 931 00:46:52,559 --> 00:46:55,978 Version 4 was not — a lot of ridging. 932 00:46:55,980 --> 00:46:58,260 Version 3 — I'm trying to think, but I can't remember what the 933 00:46:58,260 --> 00:46:59,458 fit was. I liked the fit. 934 00:46:59,460 --> 00:47:02,790 Toe box was a little reinforced. I can't remember if there was 935 00:47:02,790 --> 00:47:04,138 extra room in the lateral midfoot. 936 00:47:04,139 --> 00:47:08,638 For me it was more about the tread than the actual fit. 937 00:47:08,639 --> 00:47:11,818 I don't remember it being too problematic fit-wise. 938 00:47:11,820 --> 00:47:15,598 Yeah, I think — like you, David — I couldn't do version four. 939 00:47:15,599 --> 00:47:19,957 Yeah, it just aggravated me. But I mean, it's definitely 940 00:47:19,957 --> 00:47:22,781 worth a shot. It's a good option if it does 941 00:47:22,781 --> 00:47:26,159 work for you. Yeah — get version 3 on sale, to 942 00:47:26,159 --> 00:47:29,572 be honest. Do you have the Cloud Soma on 943 00:47:29,572 --> 00:47:32,338 you, Klein? Uh, yeah. 944 00:47:32,340 --> 00:47:34,978 I actually — well, but that's kind of more snug. 945 00:47:34,980 --> 00:47:39,840 That's a little bit... but it's excellent road-to-trail with 946 00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:41,998 pretty good versatility. It really is. 947 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,730 Yeah. I'm a little hesitant with that 948 00:47:44,730 --> 00:47:48,186 lateral midfoot because it does get kind of lower volume here, 949 00:47:48,186 --> 00:47:50,698 but all the other things work extremely well. 950 00:47:50,699 --> 00:47:54,455 The transition between road and trail — just having the way that 951 00:47:54,455 --> 00:47:58,522 the clouds kind of come up and create a weirdly stable ride — 952 00:47:58,522 --> 00:48:01,954 I'm just a little bit worried about that lateral midfoot based 953 00:48:01,954 --> 00:48:04,018 on that. Nathan, do you got something? 954 00:48:04,019 --> 00:48:06,058 I have two that I was thinking of. 955 00:48:06,059 --> 00:48:07,978 Oh, I was thinking the Aeroglide. 956 00:48:07,980 --> 00:48:10,850 I don't think it's worth going and getting the Concept, 957 00:48:10,850 --> 00:48:15,403 probably because it's $250. But it also has — what I was 958 00:48:15,403 --> 00:48:19,653 going to show — lateral sidewalls that go pretty far 959 00:48:19,653 --> 00:48:23,810 into the midfoot to forefoot. So if that's where your foot is 960 00:48:23,810 --> 00:48:26,998 jutting out, this probably might not be the option for you. 961 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:30,600 But the one that came into my mind — it's a trail shoe, but it 962 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,960 has worked really well for me on road — is the North Face Vectiv 963 00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:35,158 Enduris 500. How about that for an option? 964 00:48:35,159 --> 00:48:37,918 Oh, that's a good one. Dude, great option. 965 00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,632 Yeah, that's a great choice. The lugs are only 4 millimeters, 966 00:48:40,632 --> 00:48:44,038 but the foam is so great that it feels awesome on the road. 967 00:48:44,039 --> 00:48:47,458 So for me, this was the number one shoe that came into my mind. 968 00:48:47,460 --> 00:48:51,118 I was like — and the fit is super, super accommodating. 969 00:48:51,119 --> 00:48:56,708 So this is my number one. This is like — gosh — top trail 970 00:48:56,708 --> 00:48:59,038 shoe of the year so far for me, I think. 971 00:48:59,039 --> 00:49:02,638 I like the Ultra Glide from Salomon. 972 00:49:02,639 --> 00:49:04,368 Did you? And actually, that one's not too 973 00:49:04,368 --> 00:49:07,244 bad on road either, because it has like that bulbous outsole 974 00:49:07,244 --> 00:49:09,009 pattern. It's really compliant when you 975 00:49:09,009 --> 00:49:11,166 land. Yeah, that was a really 976 00:49:11,166 --> 00:49:14,472 interesting outsole, for sure. I will say — Nathan, you've hit 977 00:49:14,472 --> 00:49:18,098 it on the head — just because it's got that wider fit, and the 978 00:49:18,098 --> 00:49:20,688 midfoot, I don't think, is going to be a bother. 979 00:49:20,688 --> 00:49:22,498 But it's definitely a full-on stable neutral. 980 00:49:22,500 --> 00:49:24,418 So I think that's a great idea. Yeah. 981 00:49:24,420 --> 00:49:27,809 Cool. All right, we've got our next 982 00:49:27,809 --> 00:49:29,638 question here. It's from Enda. 983 00:49:29,639 --> 00:49:33,049 They ask: "Big fan of the podcast, and you've helped me 984 00:49:33,049 --> 00:49:36,451 guide many patients as a PT to using appropriate running shoes 985 00:49:36,451 --> 00:49:37,978 for their needs. That's awesome. 986 00:49:37,980 --> 00:49:41,533 I see a lot of people who require medial support or 987 00:49:41,533 --> 00:49:44,117 guidance for lower leg issues like posterior tibial 988 00:49:44,117 --> 00:49:47,347 tendinopathy, and I'm normally able to recommend well in this 989 00:49:47,347 --> 00:49:51,220 area — recently with shoes like the Kayano 32 or the Saucony 990 00:49:51,220 --> 00:49:54,118 Azura, even though that's not technically a stability shoe." 991 00:49:54,119 --> 00:49:55,738 This is all their words. Sorry. 992 00:49:55,739 --> 00:50:00,279 "However, I've struggled to get the same response with people 993 00:50:00,279 --> 00:50:02,998 suffering from medial compartment knee OA. 994 00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,384 I feel like it should be the same style of shoe offering 995 00:50:06,384 --> 00:50:09,204 increased medial support to offload the medial knee, but I'm 996 00:50:09,204 --> 00:50:12,588 open to correction here — but my patients with this issue tend 997 00:50:12,588 --> 00:50:15,118 not to respond well to this type of shoe. 998 00:50:15,119 --> 00:50:18,937 Do you have any go-to current shoes to assist with medial 999 00:50:18,937 --> 00:50:21,658 compartment knee OA?" Can I jump on this? 1000 00:50:21,659 --> 00:50:24,059 Sure. Yeah, so what you have to 1001 00:50:24,059 --> 00:50:26,698 realize — what happens at the foot does affect the knee. 1002 00:50:26,699 --> 00:50:28,078 There's kind of some variability about this. 1003 00:50:28,079 --> 00:50:31,394 But typically, the evidence suggests if you do medial 1004 00:50:31,394 --> 00:50:35,810 stability — or especially a medial wedge or a varus wedge — 1005 00:50:35,810 --> 00:50:39,490 it's actually going to compress the medial compartment more, and 1006 00:50:39,490 --> 00:50:41,698 that tends to be more irritating. 1007 00:50:41,699 --> 00:50:46,479 People with medial compartment OA actually do better with a 1008 00:50:46,479 --> 00:50:51,250 lateral wedge or a valgus wedge, because that actually forces 1009 00:50:51,250 --> 00:50:54,322 that compartment open more. And so there's been some 1010 00:50:54,322 --> 00:50:58,477 evidence on that. So it's kind of the opposite — 1011 00:50:58,477 --> 00:51:01,935 where sometimes that's conflicting, because you get 1012 00:51:01,935 --> 00:51:06,875 people with that and posterior tibial tendinopathy, or you get 1013 00:51:06,875 --> 00:51:11,808 medial knee compartment OA plus some medial ligament issues, or 1014 00:51:11,808 --> 00:51:16,245 some insertional tendinopathies in that area, plus some meniscus 1015 00:51:16,245 --> 00:51:19,139 stuff. So it's going to be really 1016 00:51:19,139 --> 00:51:22,339 complicated — but purely medial compartment, the evidence 1017 00:51:22,339 --> 00:51:25,939 suggests you basically use more lateral stability, because that 1018 00:51:25,939 --> 00:51:29,387 essentially opens that space. Yeah, I was going to say the 1019 00:51:29,387 --> 00:51:32,818 same thing — I was like, "Oh, it actually could be the opposite." 1020 00:51:32,820 --> 00:51:36,197 And that would make sense why this might not have been working 1021 00:51:36,197 --> 00:51:37,850 well. As you said, there's some 1022 00:51:37,850 --> 00:51:41,138 variability in this, but I was thinking about — I couldn't come 1023 00:51:41,138 --> 00:51:44,689 up with the exact shoes — but in terms of construction, I was 1024 00:51:44,689 --> 00:51:47,965 thinking of shoes that had a little bit of a medial cutout, 1025 00:51:47,965 --> 00:51:50,695 or something that allowed the shoe to collapse immediately a 1026 00:51:50,695 --> 00:51:53,425 little bit more. Are there ones that come to your 1027 00:51:53,425 --> 00:51:56,458 mind? David just said it — Aeroglide. 1028 00:51:56,460 --> 00:51:57,850 There's a lateral — there's a lateral... 1029 00:51:57,850 --> 00:52:00,226 That's the way to circle back, because that's what I was going 1030 00:52:00,226 --> 00:52:03,419 through in my head. I'm like, it's not the most 1031 00:52:03,419 --> 00:52:06,254 aggressive thing, right? But it's still subtle enough 1032 00:52:06,254 --> 00:52:08,870 that it might create some mild medial guidance. 1033 00:52:08,870 --> 00:52:12,458 But yeah — gosh, I've written about this a few times. 1034 00:52:12,458 --> 00:52:15,874 And now I'm blanking. Some of the older ideas — which 1035 00:52:15,874 --> 00:52:17,578 should be kind of like that, but not as much anymore. 1036 00:52:17,579 --> 00:52:22,068 Not as much. You know — actually, the Adizero 1037 00:52:22,068 --> 00:52:26,799 Boston, weirdly enough, with the lateral outsole design — that's 1038 00:52:26,799 --> 00:52:30,898 not the right term — I appreciate it. 1039 00:52:30,900 --> 00:52:31,738 Sorry. Sorry. 1040 00:52:31,739 --> 00:52:36,669 I did not use that correctly. The pods actually jut out 1041 00:52:36,669 --> 00:52:40,378 laterally, because they're meant to bounce immediately. 1042 00:52:40,380 --> 00:52:43,035 That's why the shoe has not worked for me. 1043 00:52:43,035 --> 00:52:46,858 That may be one — but again, I don't know how aggressive it's 1044 00:52:46,858 --> 00:52:49,798 going to be. But you can also just create a 1045 00:52:49,798 --> 00:52:52,738 lateral wedge or use a felt insert in the shoe. 1046 00:52:52,739 --> 00:52:56,467 Like, you can buy this on Amazon and put it underneath the insole 1047 00:52:56,467 --> 00:53:00,471 — actually push them up to be a little bit more into a valgus 1048 00:53:00,471 --> 00:53:02,759 position by putting it on the lateral side. 1049 00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:04,586 But you've got to be careful because you have to do it 1050 00:53:04,586 --> 00:53:06,790 optimally. My take on that is like — give 1051 00:53:06,790 --> 00:53:08,398 it a shot. If it works, it does. 1052 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:13,372 If it doesn't, it doesn't. You know — don't see it as a 1053 00:53:13,372 --> 00:53:16,018 silver bullet as a practitioner, right? 1054 00:53:16,019 --> 00:53:18,178 Like — give it a shot, do a treatment trial of it. 1055 00:53:18,179 --> 00:53:22,287 If you can — even like we always had some Microlight foam, I 1056 00:53:22,287 --> 00:53:27,013 think it was called — just these — it was like a little EVA foam 1057 00:53:27,013 --> 00:53:30,478 roll-up sheet that you could just cut however you wanted to. 1058 00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:34,036 And so we would just cut what we wanted, tape it onto the insole 1059 00:53:34,036 --> 00:53:37,579 of a shoe, and just see how people respond to it — just do 1060 00:53:37,579 --> 00:53:39,672 some treatment trials. David, do you have anything else 1061 00:53:39,672 --> 00:53:41,998 you want to add? Do you know what they should do? 1062 00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:44,938 The Fast R 3 would be a great option because of this big 1063 00:53:44,938 --> 00:53:46,378 medial — just kidding. Just kidding. 1064 00:53:46,380 --> 00:53:50,098 Don't do a super shoe. You lost me. 1065 00:53:50,099 --> 00:53:53,458 No, I think you guys described it really well. 1066 00:53:53,460 --> 00:53:57,932 It's like — what can happen on one end could actually create a 1067 00:53:57,932 --> 00:54:01,712 compensation on the other end and change the angle from a 1068 00:54:01,712 --> 00:54:04,549 biomechanical standpoint. I think you guys hit it really 1069 00:54:04,549 --> 00:54:07,926 well — and really just looking for some lateral outsole flare 1070 00:54:07,926 --> 00:54:10,382 and/or lateral bias. Which I'm super sensitive to, 1071 00:54:10,382 --> 00:54:14,057 but I haven't had too many shoes knock me out besides the 1072 00:54:14,057 --> 00:54:17,117 Aeroglide in recent history where I'm like, "Oh geez, I 1073 00:54:17,117 --> 00:54:19,259 cannot run in this for this reason." 1074 00:54:19,260 --> 00:54:22,680 Right. There've been a few others that 1075 00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:26,089 are escaping me right now, and I definitely wrote about this 1076 00:54:26,089 --> 00:54:28,286 recently. I remember Andrea was super 1077 00:54:28,286 --> 00:54:32,056 sensitive to something with the lateral bias recently, but I 1078 00:54:32,056 --> 00:54:34,318 can't remember exactly what it was. 1079 00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:36,639 Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, especially in the net. 1080 00:54:36,639 --> 00:54:38,330 Yeah. Especially in the forefoot for 1081 00:54:38,330 --> 00:54:41,335 Andrea — because she lands really far forward, if that hits 1082 00:54:41,335 --> 00:54:44,338 too early for her, she just does not gel with it. 1083 00:54:44,340 --> 00:54:49,212 Her words, not mine. All right, we have one more 1084 00:54:49,212 --> 00:54:52,958 question for the evening. So this is a question from 1085 00:54:52,958 --> 00:54:57,238 Karen, and they're asking this. "Hope y'all are doing well. 1086 00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:01,617 I quite enjoy your site and hoping you might have some 1087 00:55:01,617 --> 00:55:04,801 recommendations for a daily trainer slash non-plated super 1088 00:55:04,801 --> 00:55:08,776 trainer based on the below preferences and shoes I have 1089 00:55:08,776 --> 00:55:13,904 enjoyed and not enjoyed as much. So here's — bear with me — I'm 1090 00:55:13,904 --> 00:55:15,898 going to give all the ideas here. 1091 00:55:15,900 --> 00:55:18,418 This is the context they gave us. 1092 00:55:18,420 --> 00:55:20,964 Lightweight runner, 63 kilograms, relatively high 1093 00:55:20,964 --> 00:55:25,618 cadence — running in the 180s to 190 steps per minute. 1094 00:55:25,619 --> 00:55:29,139 Marathon training, typically in the hot, humid Singapore 1095 00:55:29,139 --> 00:55:30,887 conditions. Generally prefers lighter, 1096 00:55:30,887 --> 00:55:35,247 responsive shoes that feel like they have a quick turnover. 1097 00:55:35,247 --> 00:55:39,163 Tends not to enjoy heavier, structured or supportive shoes, 1098 00:55:39,163 --> 00:55:41,338 or overly chunky, heavy-feeling shoes. 1099 00:55:41,340 --> 00:55:45,898 Shoes they've really enjoyed in the past: Nike Streakfly — 1100 00:55:45,900 --> 00:55:50,100 'probably my favorite recent shoe, would be perfect if they 1101 00:55:50,100 --> 00:55:54,300 made a longer distance version.' Really enjoyed the Nike Vaporfly 1102 00:55:54,300 --> 00:55:58,920 4% and the Vaporfly 4, the On Cloudflow, and the Saucony 1103 00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:01,764 Kinvara 15. Shoes they did not enjoy so 1104 00:56:01,764 --> 00:56:05,772 much: the Nike Pegasus Plus — 'didn't dislike it, but found it 1105 00:56:05,772 --> 00:56:09,439 a bit bigger in profile and less responsive and exciting than 1106 00:56:09,439 --> 00:56:13,016 they had hoped.' The Adizero Evo SL — 'have not 1107 00:56:13,016 --> 00:56:17,064 run in it, but it felt chunkier and more structured than 1108 00:56:17,064 --> 00:56:19,640 expected when they saw it in person.' 1109 00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:22,950 And the Hoka Bondi, chunky Brooks, and similarly highly 1110 00:56:22,950 --> 00:56:24,418 cushioned, supportive shoes generally. 1111 00:56:24,420 --> 00:56:28,040 This is what they say they seem to enjoy the most: Lightweight 1112 00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:32,009 shoes with low feelings of inertia, responsive foam and 1113 00:56:32,009 --> 00:56:34,655 quick turnover, natural transitions, minimal heel 1114 00:56:34,655 --> 00:56:39,065 interference, or less structured sensations in the shoe — a 1115 00:56:39,065 --> 00:56:42,593 'super shoe sensation' without necessarily having a carbon 1116 00:56:42,593 --> 00:56:44,798 plate. Would really appreciate your 1117 00:56:44,798 --> 00:56:47,129 insights. They'll also be in Japan 1118 00:56:47,129 --> 00:56:50,527 soon-ish, so very open to unconventional or Japan market 1119 00:56:50,527 --> 00:56:53,638 suggestions as well." Topo Cyclone 3. 1120 00:56:53,639 --> 00:56:57,118 Yeah, I mean, that's definitely the big one that was screaming. 1121 00:56:57,119 --> 00:56:59,163 But I was trying to think of other examples. 1122 00:56:59,163 --> 00:57:01,950 But yes — Cyclone 3. Doesn't want high stack, wants 1123 00:57:01,950 --> 00:57:05,580 light — clearly, based on the theme, it's like more moderate 1124 00:57:05,580 --> 00:57:08,218 to maybe a little bit lower stack height. 1125 00:57:08,219 --> 00:57:10,860 That fits the bill — unfortunately, there's not a lot 1126 00:57:10,860 --> 00:57:12,538 of stuff. New Balance Rebel, kind of. 1127 00:57:12,539 --> 00:57:16,539 Not as good as the Cyclone, but that one would — it's fast 1128 00:57:16,539 --> 00:57:18,529 enough. My only hesitation with the 1129 00:57:18,529 --> 00:57:21,418 Rebel is it's probably going to feel really soft. 1130 00:57:21,420 --> 00:57:26,526 But it's lower. Not by much — it is, but not 1131 00:57:26,526 --> 00:57:28,738 like today's standards, not by that much. 1132 00:57:28,739 --> 00:57:31,964 Not like the Cyclone. Not like the Kinvara and stuff 1133 00:57:31,964 --> 00:57:34,019 like that. We haven't tested the Kinvara in 1134 00:57:34,019 --> 00:57:34,918 a while. What happened? 1135 00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:37,198 Have they been making them? I don't know. 1136 00:57:37,199 --> 00:57:39,118 They still make them. They're updating them? 1137 00:57:39,119 --> 00:57:42,141 They are. They just — we didn't get sent 1138 00:57:42,141 --> 00:57:44,338 them. But what else? 1139 00:57:44,340 --> 00:57:49,678 Honestly — that's kind of it — I mean, Adios 9. 1140 00:57:49,679 --> 00:57:52,198 Also — we just talked about — the Adidas Adizero Adios 9. 1141 00:57:52,199 --> 00:57:55,679 It has a shank, but it's not plated — especially in the 1142 00:57:55,679 --> 00:57:59,148 forefoot — so there's a little teeny bit of structure, but it's 1143 00:57:59,148 --> 00:58:01,749 lighter, definitely good ground feel, a little bit snappier 1144 00:58:01,749 --> 00:58:03,978 foam. Another option if you want to go 1145 00:58:03,978 --> 00:58:07,259 race or run a little quicker. Very light. 1146 00:58:07,260 --> 00:58:09,778 This is nice. RIP Brooks Hyperion 2. 1147 00:58:09,780 --> 00:58:12,478 I'll say it again. Oh man. 1148 00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:17,038 Yeah, the 3 definitely went a little higher. 1149 00:58:17,039 --> 00:58:22,169 The shoe I keep — the shoe I can't talk about — I would also 1150 00:58:22,169 --> 00:58:24,898 put in this category based on their description. 1151 00:58:24,900 --> 00:58:27,778 I think that shoe's too high stack. 1152 00:58:27,780 --> 00:58:29,698 I haven't even put it on. Or ran in it yet. 1153 00:58:29,699 --> 00:58:31,469 I haven't. It's a different — it's a 1154 00:58:31,469 --> 00:58:33,418 different animal. It's a different animal. 1155 00:58:33,420 --> 00:58:38,218 I love that Nate's the one that isn't talking about things now. 1156 00:58:38,219 --> 00:58:45,178 What about the Mizuno NeoZen 2? That might be a little too soft. 1157 00:58:45,179 --> 00:58:48,591 Yeah, I think that's a little bit — a little bit too much 1158 00:58:48,591 --> 00:58:51,997 bounciness, I feel like — but it dances on the line of it, 1159 00:58:51,997 --> 00:58:54,058 though. Yeah, the — our Surfer Next. 1160 00:58:54,059 --> 00:58:55,936 The Surfer Next thing. No, yeah, that's what I'm 1161 00:58:55,936 --> 00:58:57,584 talking about. Okay, got it. 1162 00:58:57,584 --> 00:58:59,800 Yeah. And in my head I was thinking — 1163 00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:01,798 yeah, Surfer Next — but I said just Surfer. 1164 00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:04,978 That feels a little bit too flat for me. 1165 00:59:04,980 --> 00:59:07,558 Like, it doesn't give me a super shoe-ey feel. 1166 00:59:07,559 --> 00:59:11,018 We haven't tested a ton of this, but what about some of the road 1167 00:59:11,018 --> 00:59:13,198 stuff from Inov-8? Oh, I'm not sure. 1168 00:59:13,199 --> 00:59:15,840 I haven't. Any X-Step stuff? 1169 00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:18,910 Or like Anta? I was kind of thinking that in 1170 00:59:18,910 --> 00:59:20,998 my head, but Anta likes to plate their shoes. 1171 00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:26,400 So like the C202 GT and even the regular trainers — a lot of them 1172 00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:29,759 have shanks and plates. Same with XTEP, actually. 1173 00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:31,738 They do a lot of like PEBA-type foams. 1174 00:59:31,739 --> 00:59:35,458 I was literally thinking that, though. 1175 00:59:35,460 --> 00:59:40,609 I was like — in the Asian market — what are the other shoes out 1176 00:59:40,609 --> 00:59:41,638 there? And yeah. 1177 00:59:41,639 --> 00:59:45,084 Wasn't there like a 361 Mira ST or something you were looking 1178 00:59:45,084 --> 00:59:47,584 at, Klein? That looked like it might be in 1179 00:59:47,584 --> 00:59:50,670 that kind of general area. So yeah — that's plated though, 1180 00:59:50,670 --> 00:59:53,447 too, right? The 361 Mira ST is plated. 1181 00:59:53,447 --> 00:59:57,490 An interesting shoe — if they wanted to race, there's the 1182 00:59:57,490 --> 01:00:01,160 Meraki Nude 2, because it is plated, but it doesn't 1183 01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:04,830 necessarily feel like that — because they're just trying to 1184 01:00:04,830 --> 01:00:09,838 save so much weight. Why am I thinking Skechers? 1185 01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:11,760 Is that the one you're thinking? Yeah, that's what I was thinking 1186 01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:13,259 of, right? It is. 1187 01:00:13,260 --> 01:00:16,558 It is, it is a good one. It is technically plated. 1188 01:00:16,559 --> 01:00:21,540 There's an H-shaped plate, but the foam is so good — and it's 1189 01:00:21,540 --> 01:00:24,848 so affordable and rolls so nice. It kind of fits in line with a 1190 01:00:24,848 --> 01:00:26,878 lot of those other things. It's quick, for sure. 1191 01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:31,544 Maybe still — Yeah, I think that's another good option, 1192 01:00:31,544 --> 01:00:33,838 actually. Yeah, I like that. 1193 01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:38,038 I'd say: Cyclone, Rebel — those are my three, if I'm thinking. 1194 01:00:38,039 --> 01:00:41,575 Yep. Yeah, I think the Rebel could be 1195 01:00:41,575 --> 01:00:45,224 an interesting one. It won't feel as fast, but the 1196 01:00:45,224 --> 01:00:47,878 foam has that like responsive feel to it. 1197 01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:52,293 It just feels really lively. It just isn't as fast as the 1198 01:00:52,293 --> 01:00:56,278 earlier versions of the Rebel kind of used to be. 1199 01:00:56,280 --> 01:01:00,258 But I think it's worth them giving a shot based off of their 1200 01:01:00,258 --> 01:01:02,698 list and what they've liked in the past. 1201 01:01:02,699 --> 01:01:06,526 But once the Saucony Kinvara was listed, I was like, "Dang, this 1202 01:01:06,526 --> 01:01:10,320 is a Cyclone conversation." Yeah — natural feeling, almost a 1203 01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:12,838 racing flat, but still a trainer. 1204 01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:15,367 Yeah. I'm surprised ASICS doesn't have 1205 01:01:15,367 --> 01:01:18,398 anything like that. I was thinking about their 1206 01:01:18,398 --> 01:01:22,068 lineup and the closest thing for non-plated performance would be 1207 01:01:22,068 --> 01:01:25,738 like the Superblast or even the Novablast, for some degree. 1208 01:01:25,739 --> 01:01:28,318 Do they still have the Hyperspeed? 1209 01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:34,754 Yeah, but that's like an EVA, like — I mean, it's not a super 1210 01:01:34,754 --> 01:01:36,418 shoe-feeling shoe. It kind of works, though. 1211 01:01:36,420 --> 01:01:39,197 Yeah. I had daily miles in those when 1212 01:01:39,197 --> 01:01:41,578 we reviewed it. That was only like a year ago. 1213 01:01:41,579 --> 01:01:46,918 So I imagine it's still around. It's a Hyperspeed vibe. 1214 01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:49,173 So it's like, what — $100? Maybe a little bit more than 1215 01:01:49,173 --> 01:01:50,278 that? It is $100. 1216 01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:51,298 Yeah. Yeah. 1217 01:01:51,300 --> 01:01:54,930 And that's what it is, right? It's a simple EVA, lightweight 1218 01:01:54,930 --> 01:02:00,220 flat trainer kind of hybrid. So it's not super by any means, 1219 01:02:00,220 --> 01:02:04,190 but it checks the other boxes. For what it's worth, though, 1220 01:02:04,190 --> 01:02:05,518 it's nice. I did like the shoe. 1221 01:02:05,519 --> 01:02:08,536 So we just want to thank everybody for coming on this 1222 01:02:08,536 --> 01:02:11,736 journey with us. As a reminder — we're dropping 1223 01:02:11,736 --> 01:02:14,902 this collab with Rabbit. And it just means a lot that 1224 01:02:14,902 --> 01:02:17,158 we're in a space where we get to do that. 1225 01:02:17,158 --> 01:02:19,858 And that's because you all have been on this journey with us. 1226 01:02:19,860 --> 01:02:23,279 So when we get these questions and we have people who are in 1227 01:02:23,279 --> 01:02:26,687 high school and we have people who are in Singapore and we have 1228 01:02:26,687 --> 01:02:30,703 people who are next door — it's really humbling for us to be 1229 01:02:30,703 --> 01:02:33,941 able to do this. So thanks for being on this 1230 01:02:33,941 --> 01:02:36,704 journey with us. And we hope that dropping stuff 1231 01:02:36,704 --> 01:02:40,690 like this that y'all can get your hands on is one small way 1232 01:02:40,690 --> 01:02:44,056 we can say thanks. And we're just very glad to be 1233 01:02:44,056 --> 01:02:46,198 doing this whole thing with you all. 1234 01:02:46,199 --> 01:02:49,903 So appreciate it. And as always, you can reach out 1235 01:02:49,903 --> 01:02:51,582 to us at doctorsofrunning@gmail.com if 1236 01:02:51,582 --> 01:02:55,530 you want to add other questions for us that we might be able to 1237 01:02:55,530 --> 01:02:57,539 discuss here on the podcast. Thanks, everybody.