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Hello everybody, and welcome to 
the Doctors of Running podcast 

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where we, a group of doctors, 
physical therapy, discussed the 

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art and science of running and 
the stuff that we put on our 

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feet. 
Today at the round table, we 

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have Doctor David Salas and 
myself. 

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I'm Nathan Brown. 
We promise not to talk too much 

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about the NBA, but it might come
up because this is our first 

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time talking together since 
Yanis was traded from the Bucks 

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to the Heat. 
I just need to start by saying, 

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Yanis, thank you for your 
service. 

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Now let's move on. 
The presenting partner of this 

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podcast. 
I can't let you respond, David, 

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at least not right now. 
Presenting part of this podcast 

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is Rabbit apparel. 
We love getting to train and all

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If you have not been looking at 

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the rabbit community by doing 
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some of the bigger races. 
They've got something going on 

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at UTMB, so go into their 
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You can check out their House 
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They've got a lot of going on 
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able to be really ingrained in 
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So go check up, check out their 
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going on with Rabbit running. 
And if you're looking to shop 

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for running in the month of 
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OK. 
Do you have anything to say 

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about the bucks? 
Regarding the Bucks, yeah, they 

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just took like the entire Miami 
team. 

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It's like that's what I sent 
you, that reel. 

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It's so funny. 
Like when you look at the Miami 

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roster, it's like they just gave
up. 

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Like everyone. 
It's like their whole roster is 

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like 7 people or something. 
I think the reality is it's what

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it was. the IT was the right 
thing to do for the Bucks 

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organization. 
Yeah, again, truly like Giannis 

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is. 
Just amazing. 

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Super fun to cheer for, but 
that's not why people listen to 

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us, I promise. 
So let's start talking about our

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in for Testing segment. 
This is where we talk about the 

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different gear and different 
shoes that we are running in and

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training in. 
David, what have you been doing?

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Yeah, before I get into that, I 
just wanted to also announce the

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trade of Lamello Ball to the 
Minnesota Timberwolves. 

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OK, moving forward. 
So first one we have here, Topo 

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Ultra Venture 535 in the hill, 
30 in the four foot 10.7 oz. 

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I only know that because I just 
did a thing on this earlier 

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yesterday. 
Great shoe, phenomenal shoe. 

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Actually one of my favorite 
trail shoes of the year so far. 

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And this is more of like a 
non-technical shoe. 

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So like when we pull this up 
like these lugs are not that 

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deep, they're very widespread. 
Like this is more like road to 

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trail, runnable trail like and 
just slow long outings. 

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But if you're looking for a shoe
just to kind of like walk, hike,

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run variety of surfaces, you're 
not going into anything too 

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crazy. 
It's a plush offering from topo.

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The zip foam in this actually 
does feel soft. 

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I feel like this is one of the 
first zip foams that I've tried 

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from them where it's not that 
like firm protective feeling. 

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This actually feels decently 
plush, and it's just a nice 

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steady rocket. 
Is it kind of like Phantom 4 

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soft like where it kind of it 
moved a little bit into the 

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softer realm, whereas like 3 was
definitely firm or is even 

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softer than that? 
I'd probably say it's softer 

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than that. 
This feels like it's like in the

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soft category, like in right in 
the middle, like not super mushy

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compliant, but I wouldn't say 
it's on the firmer end of the 

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soft category either. 
I think this one's like, 

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actually like, right in the 
middle, like it's just a soft 

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phone. 
Yeah. 

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And it might feel a little 
softer, too, because the lugs 

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aren't quite as deep. 
You know, there's probably some 

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of that as well. 
But yeah, I actually have been 

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very, very happy with the Ultra 
Venture 5. 

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And then also we have that 
YouTube short that just went out

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for the Ultra 5 GTX. 
Oh yeah. 

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Very waterproof. 
I took the shoes in the shower. 

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If you've been listening to the 
podcast, I kind of hinted that I

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might do that. 
And yeah, no, my feet were dry, 

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insole was dry. 
I was very impressed with its 

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waterproof capabilities. 
So if you're looking for a Gore 

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Tex version of that shoe, I can 
attest the Gore Tex works. 

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That's the next one up. 
Now, these ones I haven't run in

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yet. 
They just came in. 

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So Solomon Aeroblaze 4. 
Now the Aeroblaze 3 was a shoe 

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last year where I felt like 
there was so much life to it, 

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but I couldn't handle it. 
Like the midfoot was just simply

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too unstable for me and I felt 
like my intrinsic muscles and my

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foot were working really hard. 
This one I've walked around in a

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little bit. 
I haven't run it. 

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They haven't really widened it 
too much. 

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It feels a tiny bit better, but 
I don't think it's going to be 

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enough for me. 
But we'll see. 

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The upper is different. 
I think it's what did it made it

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a little bit more secure. 
What's interesting about that 

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shoe is I literally put that 
shoe on to like wear through the

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day and rolled my ankle, sorry, 
the previous version and rolled 

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my ankle three times just like 
walking around and I have ankle 

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instability. 
So it's not like I'm I'm not in 

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that camp. 
I am, but I I just didn't 

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understand what it was about the
level of compliance or 

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resilience to that foam plus non
flaring of the soul. 

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It was I couldn't run in it 
because it was just too unstable

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for me laterally like to the 
outside. 

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And so I'm curious about. 
The rest it's going to. 

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Be Yeah, yeah, it's crazy and 
it's not like that remarkable. 

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It's not remarkably narrow, it's
just not wide. 

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But there must be something with
the foam compliance and maybe 

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stickiness of the outsole where 
I'm like hitting it and then 

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it's making me turn my ankle. 
I don't know. 

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Yeah. 
So we'll see. 

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You know, the Aeroblaze Gravel 
was much better when I got that 

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last year. 
So maybe there is something to 

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do with just firming up that 
platform a little bit. 

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So we'll see. 
So I still have to run in it, 

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but the three was a deal breaker
for me. 

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But the gravel version ended up 
fixing some of that. 

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And then next one is the Clifton
pro. 

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I have not run in this. 
I ran in the Clifton 11. 

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I really liked the Clifton 11. 
Actually that's probably my 

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favorite Clifton in quite a 
while. 

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You've got it right there. 
It has a like slightly higher 

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drop again for like similar to 
the previous version. 

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I think the rockers done better,
like all of the the upper is 

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also much better, like a little 
more space. 

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So I'm talking about the Clifton
11, not the Clifton pro right 

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now. 
And I feel like it's just all 

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around a better version of the 
Clifton 10. 

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So yeah, I feel like that's 
actually a true update. 

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That's a good one. 
Yeah. 

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Clifton Pro, Supercritical Eva. 
I mentioned this on the podcast 

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last time. 
I don't know that. 

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We'll see. 
I think I'm gonna like the shoe.

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I just don't know how what 
they're gonna do with the Bondi 

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cuz that's also supercritical 
Eva. 

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And like the upper material on 
the Bondi is a little bit more 

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plush and this feels a little 
bit more streamlined, but it's 

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also slightly heavier than the 
Clifton 11. 

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So it's like, do I find a room 
for the rotation to have the Pro

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and the Clifton 11 or should 
this just be the Clifton? 

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I don't know, something we could
talk about later, I suppose. 

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But for what it's worth, 
standing and walking around, I 

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think I am going to like the 
Clifton Pro. 

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It feels like a nice balanced 
rocker. 

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The supercritical Eva does feel 
good under foot, but it's not 

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super light though. 
It's like what, 10 oz? 

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A little bit little over that. 
Yeah, mines 9.6 or something 

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like that in my size 9. 
But yeah, it's just like .1 oz 

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more in the Pro versus in the 
regular Clifton. 

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I've ran a lot of miles. 
I'll just jump in on this one 

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really quick and then you can go
with the rest. 

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But I've ran a lot of miles over
the last two weeks in the 

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Clifton Pro and from a training 
perspective, it's been one of my

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favorite ones that I've tested 
in the last couple months. 

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I I find it really rhythmic, 
really simple. 

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It's firmer and I like firmer, 
bouncier trainers. 

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It reminds me of actually the 
Clifton 9 before they kind of 

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changed that slightly. 
I'm going to put it in air 

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quotes, but softer foam for the 
10 where it felt more airy. 

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The the 9 felt a little bit more
dense, responsive. 

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And that's what I think this pro
feels like again, which the 9 

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was super versatile for me. 
It was one of my top trainers 

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that year. 
This feels like I'm getting that

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again, so I've been loving it 
for that. 

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From that perspective. 
A little bit more firm through 

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the four foot, sorry, more rigid
through the four foot. 

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So you operate off the rocker 
more than in the Clifton 11. 

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And I've been preferring that 
for the type of running that 

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I've been doing. 
But I took this on just shy of a

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10 mile run that I progressed 
down into for me, you know, what

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would be my like half marathon 
pace. 

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So I was going like 7:15, 7/20 
for a couple miles and that's 

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not easy for me. 
So I was, I was moving for 

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myself and that this shoe felt 
great for that long run, felt 

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super protective. 
And again, I like that kind of 

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firmer, responsive feel. 
So I've been a huge fan of this.

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I think the pro tag is pretty 
misleading. 

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I've heard, you know from 
different sources that pro means

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progression, not professional. 
But Even so, I don't even know 

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if this, I would consider this a
progression of the Clifton. 

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I'm kind of with you. 
It's like, I don't really, I 

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don't really know the 
relationship to the Clifton or 

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what, you know, it looks very 
similar. 

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I guess, you know, you have 
similar stack height, similar 

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weight, slightly different foam,
but I I don't necessarily think 

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it's a better shoe or like from 
a performance standpoint. 

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Yeah, it's gonna depend on what 
you want. 

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Yeah, they're both kind of 
lightweight and I don't know, 

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but I like it from a like how it
acts as a trainer. 

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And I think that this foam is 
going to be way more durable 

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than the Clifton 11 foam. 
There's just a little bit more 

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robustness to it, and I think 
I'm going to get more out of 

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this shoe. 
So from that perspective, I like

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the Pro more. 
And again, I like the slightly 

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more rigid nature of the 
forefoot. 

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So I've been a huge fan of the 
Clifton Pro. 

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Yeah, I think I'm going to like 
it once I do run in it. 

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Yeah. 
And what else you got the Topo 

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aura 2? 
Oh. 

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Yeah. 
Unless it's one of their 

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stability models right it. 
Is yeah, I was a big fan of the 

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first one, especially standing, 
walking like it was great 

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running. 
It wasn't bad either. 

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It just was a little bit heavy. 
It just was a smooth, rhythmic, 

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just get your miles done kind of
a shoe. 

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There wasn't a whole lot of life
to it, but it was stable and it 

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did its job, you know, and I'd 
say a lot of that is still 

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consistent in the Aura 2. 
I still have to run in it. 

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The four foot rocker feels a 
little bit sharper in this model

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than the previous version to me 
in a good way. 

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I feel like it just makes those 
steps a little bit smoother. 

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But honestly, yeah, the Aura has
been one of those shoes that has

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kind of been a go to, especially
standing, walking and just like 

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yeah and easy running. 
And I've actually seen it in the

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clinic quite a bit around here. 
I've seen the aura 2 multiple 

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time or not the aura one 
multiple times in the clinic. 

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So I'm always like, oh, what do 
you think of those? 

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You know, and everyone seems to 
like them. 

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So cool. 
That's good. 

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And then the last one here super
quick. 

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It's just Hyperion Elite 6 from 
Brooks. 

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We've talked about it before. 
I haven't run on it yet. 

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00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,000
I've been kind of sick the last 
couple weeks. 

224
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,520
So I haven't done a whole lot of
running, but I'm I'm coming out 

225
00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,600
of it. 
I I think like tomorrow I'm 

226
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,880
hoping I'll feel normal again. 
Yeah, I'd be curious from 

227
00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,480
people. 
I saw like a rundown of that 

228
00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,640
shoe that Running Warehouse 
showed in the plate design was 

229
00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,840
different in the one that 
Running Warehouse has than the 

230
00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:26,000
one that we were seated. 
The one that we have covers that

231
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,480
I don't have mine with me, but 
it covers the entire thickness 

232
00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,240
of that opening where the 
plate's exposed. 

233
00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,280
We're in the other ones, it's 
like not a full thickness plate 

234
00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,280
or it's bifurcated or something,
but it looks different. 

235
00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,680
And I'd be curious to know if 
they've made changes and what 

236
00:11:40,680 --> 00:11:43,640
the final product is. 
So if people have inside info 

237
00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,000
you can comment on, if you're 
watching on YouTube, you can, 

238
00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,360
you can comment and let us know 
if you've if you've seen 

239
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:50,800
anything or learned anything 
there. 

240
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,680
But I find that curious. 
Yeah, that's what I got. 

241
00:11:54,680 --> 00:11:55,240
What about you? 
Well. 

242
00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,200
I was going to talk about 
Clifton stuff, so we already 

243
00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,560
kind of went there. 
Another one that I know that 

244
00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:05,760
you've tested and you helped 
with prototypes that I've ran a 

245
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,520
little bit in is the new Mizuno 
Wave Rider 30. 

246
00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,000
If people have listened to this,
they know I have a soft spot for

247
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,880
the Wave Rider because it was 
the shoe I ran my first marathon

248
00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,240
in. 
I forget which version it is. 

249
00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,160
I still have it actually in the 
backseat of my car. 

250
00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,840
It doesn't matter. 
But they've updated this quite a

251
00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:25,480
bit over the last couple 
iterations. 

252
00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:27,640
But this is another bigger 
overhaul. 

253
00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:33,120
They have their Mizuno Energy 
Next midsole as part of this 

254
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,040
midsole compound. 
They've got a couple things 

255
00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:36,680
going on here. 
They still have like a Wave 

256
00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:41,360
plate thing going on my first 
times in the shoe. 

257
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,880
I've struggled with it and I, I 
want to know more about your 

258
00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:50,480
experiences, But for me, I feel 
like the amount of softness in 

259
00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,560
it, I'm just not able to use it 
to keep going. 

260
00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:56,720
It feels like I'm losing energy 
into the midsole right now. 

261
00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,240
And again, everyone experiences 
softness differently. 

262
00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:00,880
So that definitely could just be
a me thing. 

263
00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:05,040
But then the other part for me 
is, you know, the rocker 

264
00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,760
platform, it is a little bit 
more rigid just because of how 

265
00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,560
much is foam is there, but it's 
a little bit later. 

266
00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:12,680
And so I feel like I'm not 
getting up on the rocker. 

267
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,240
So I'm sinking into the foam and
I'm not getting out of the 

268
00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:16,680
rocker. 
So it just feels a little 

269
00:13:16,680 --> 00:13:20,880
heavier on my feet. 
And then the other thing that 

270
00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,840
I've been noticing in a number 
of different models and it's 

271
00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,400
really nitpicky, but I'm showing
it. 

272
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:30,040
If you're watching but through 
the mid foot of a number of 

273
00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:34,240
shoes, instead of having a full,
a true full contact outsole, 

274
00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,320
they have this kind of it's 
really hard. 

275
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,080
Cavity. 
On here, but that kind of dips 

276
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,640
up so that it's not fully flat. 
Let's see if I can do with this.

277
00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,880
It's not fully flat. 
You can like see through because

278
00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:48,600
there's a little bit of space A.
Notepad. 

279
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,400
It is a notepad it looked like. 
A thin slice of wood at 1st and 

280
00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,960
I was like, why do you have that
just hanging around? 

281
00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:58,480
That's how you know, my dad does
like construction. 

282
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,760
I'm used to seeing stuff like 
that around all the time and. 

283
00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,000
So yeah, I think that opening 
for me can cause problems from a

284
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,120
stability standpoint in the 
structure because, you know, 

285
00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:11,160
once you land and you start 
rolling through there, if it's 

286
00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,680
not touching the ground, you can
fall into that, it's going to 

287
00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:18,160
flatten out when you load it. 
And so I, I wonder if part of my

288
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,040
issue too with like losing 
energy as I like sink down into 

289
00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,920
that midfoot, lose a little bit 
of stability and I'm just not 

290
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,480
transitioning well. 
But that's just kind of what my 

291
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,280
experience has been. 
But you've ran in this shoe and 

292
00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,640
progressions of the shoe more 
than me. 

293
00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:37,360
What thoughts do you have on it?
Yeah, it's interesting because I

294
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,840
think it's actually it might be 
my favorite wave rider. 

295
00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:48,600
So it I don't seem to have an 
issue with that like little mini

296
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,120
archway that you're kind of 
talking about and not arch being

297
00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,680
on the medial side of the foot. 
It's on both sides, yeah. 

298
00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,240
Makes sense. 
Both talk about feet and arches.

299
00:14:56,240 --> 00:15:00,600
You know that 10th gets implied,
but no implications here. 

300
00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:02,240
It's just kind of like a slight 
little archway there. 

301
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,040
But I haven't seemed to have 
that issue. 

302
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:05,960
I think what you're talking 
about though, there is a full 

303
00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:12,240
length plate in that shoe and 
and you do struggle with later 

304
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,440
rockers in general. 
I do. 

305
00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:16,600
So I think there's a little bit 
of that. 

306
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:17,960
You have a stiffer like 
glycerin. 

307
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:19,560
Max for me. 
Yeah. 

308
00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,480
But the plate actually I think 
is pretty flexible. 

309
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,760
Like when you go and you move it
like on its own it's like it 

310
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:26,520
feels a little stiff. 
But once you get running it, 

311
00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:28,800
it's more flexible than previous
plates, I think. 

312
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:33,760
But it is full length and then 
the foam is much softer, way 

313
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:35,560
softer like this Wave Rider 
soft. 

314
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:39,880
It's not like, is it kind of 
soft like No, no, it's soft like

315
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,760
compared to, especially compared
to previous versions, but I 

316
00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,680
think across the market and it's
at 42 1/2 millimeters of stack 

317
00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:49,120
in the heel. 
So and now it's an 8mm drop 

318
00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,280
instead of a 12. 
So I think you've had just a few

319
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:55,040
different changes in that model 
that where it's come down in 

320
00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:59,000
drop, it's gone up in stack 
probably over the years. 

321
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,000
I can't imagine being at 42 
beforehand. 

322
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,160
And yeah, I think there's been a
few changes there. 

323
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,720
And the rocker geometry is 
sharper than it used to be as 

324
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,560
well, correct. 
Yeah, the Wave Rider never used 

325
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,080
to be a very rockered shoe. 
And this one still I would say 

326
00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,320
isn't the most rockered. 
Like compared to a shoe that I 

327
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,480
would call Rockard, it's not as 
rocker. 

328
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,840
It still feels a little bit more
like a higher drop, but it still

329
00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,040
feels like a Wave Rider in 
comparison to other rocker 

330
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,600
shoes. 
But I think it does feel like 

331
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:30,440
we're talking about like the 
progression. 

332
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,600
Like, it does feel like that 
feels like a progression. 

333
00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:35,520
Yeah. 
The wave writer. 

334
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,720
Yeah. 
And I don't know, I like it, I 

335
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:39,920
think. 
And the foam is actually 

336
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,720
surprisingly responsive too, 
where like, once you kind of 

337
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,160
like, load it a little bit more 
and a little quicker, it has a 

338
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,000
surprising amount of life to it.
And it only weighs like a little

339
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,000
over 9 oz. 
It's not like it's super heavy 

340
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:54,400
and it's meant to just cruise, 
right? 

341
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,920
It's not meant to be a 
performance trainer, but like I 

342
00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,760
like it for just going easy. 
But I find that if I lean into 

343
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:05,440
it a little bit, it will go. 
And so at $150.00, I feel like 

344
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,800
if you're getting a training 
workhorse, like there's a lot of

345
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:09,839
value there, especially if the 
mechanics work for you. 

346
00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:13,119
Like it's probably one of them 
biggest like I think bang for 

347
00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:14,839
bucks shoes on the market right 
now. 

348
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:18,800
I can see that. 
Yeah, it just, it just got to 

349
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:20,560
work for you. 
I think some of the changes they

350
00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:22,960
made just don't line up with 
your mechanics as well. 

351
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,280
That's how I feel because that's
how I felt about the Glycerin 

352
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,440
Max too, which totally different
category because that's like a 

353
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:31,920
$200 shoe. 
So you're looking at different 

354
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,120
price points. 
But it just, it's not that it 

355
00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:37,720
was a bad shoe or a poor 
construction, it just did not 

356
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,800
match my running style. 
And I have to get more in on 

357
00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:42,240
this. 
Like next time I have a shorter 

358
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,400
easy run, which is this week, 
I'm on a cutback week. 

359
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,720
I'm going to take this out again
because I want to get more 

360
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,760
experience in it, but I I'm 
curious to see how it goes. 

361
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,320
Yeah, and we were talking about 
our top choose in the last 

362
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:54,360
episode. 
Oh wait, you weren't on that 

363
00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:56,160
episode, huh? 
No, I was not. 

364
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,880
Client had that in his top five.
All right. 

365
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,360
Yeah, Yeah, I have. 
That one hasn't even been 

366
00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:02,400
released yet. 
Oh, wait. 

367
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,680
When we're recording. 
Or was that for the budget one? 

368
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,040
No, that was the budget one for 
the high school. 

369
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,720
Nevermind, never mind 2 episodes
ago you were on that. 

370
00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:11,600
But he did bring it up. 
Cool. 

371
00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:16,400
Well, the last one I was going 
to bring up is a new one from 

372
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:21,280
Brooks, Brooks Ghost Amp Haven't
gotten any running in it. 

373
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:23,640
Have worn it around town a 
little bit. 

374
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:25,480
Jana has shoes that are this 
color. 

375
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,920
So we we different brand and 
everything, but so we match. 

376
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,960
So that's cute, but I'm curious 
to get some miles in it. 

377
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,960
It's a more flexible 4 foot. 
I did not get to run in the 

378
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:41,840
normal ghost, so I won't be able
to compare between the two, but 

379
00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:46,800
it feels more a little softer 
and responsive than other ghosts

380
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,320
that I've ran in. 
So I'm curious to see see what 

381
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,120
their goal is with this shoe and
what it's going to, what space 

382
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:56,240
it's supposed to fill. 
The fit of it is tapered a 

383
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,120
pretty decent amount. 
So I don't think I'm going to 

384
00:18:58,120 --> 00:19:00,360
get a ton of miles in it to be 
honest, because it just cuts 

385
00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:03,480
into my little toe. 
So pretty narrow through the 

386
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,440
forefoot. 
But it seems like that may have 

387
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:10,160
been intentional from kind of 
the purpose. 

388
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,800
It seems like they're trying to 
get something that would amp it 

389
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,920
up, go a little bit faster. 
So they want that snugger fit, 

390
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:17,440
but I don't. 
I think it's unnecessary to 

391
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,920
taper it like they did but 
haven't ran in it. 

392
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,320
But I did notice the taper just 
around around the town. 

393
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:27,680
So. 
Around the town. 

394
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:33,360
Around the town, I don't know, 
I've got problems, man. 

395
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,520
All right, well, let's move on. 
That is our in for testing 

396
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,720
segment that is always fueled by
scratch labs. 

397
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,160
And if you're wanting to check 
out anything for your in run 

398
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,640
nutrition and hydration, you can
go to scratchla-bs.com. 

399
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,920
You can use the code Doctors of 
Running to get 20% off your 

400
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,800
first order. 
The real meat and potatoes of 

401
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,640
this episode is our fact or 
fiction. 

402
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:02,320
So this is where we take ideas 
that have been posed by you all.

403
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,200
So you are sending us questions 
and these concepts are embedded 

404
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,440
within your questions and your 
ideas and the things that you 

405
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,000
want us to discuss. 
And then we bring that idea up 

406
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,480
and we try to talk about is 
there anything valid behind this

407
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,200
concept? 
And we either call it fact or 

408
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,760
fiction and then dig into our 
own experiences and then what 

409
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,600
the literature may say about 
some of these. 

410
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,360
Topics, some of them definitely 
don't have literature behind 

411
00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:28,400
them, and you will know what I 
mean when I get to those 

412
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,440
questions. 
But it's a little bit of a 

413
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,200
combination of those kinds of 
things. 

414
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:36,040
So here we go. 
The first factor, fiction, is if

415
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:40,560
I run in a shoe drop that is 
uncomfortable long enough, then 

416
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:45,480
I'll get used to it. 
It's a banger for a first one. 

417
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,920
I was going to say I can see you
wanted to use your like cheat 

418
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,640
your one cheat for episode. 
I'm not going to use it though. 

419
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:55,240
All right. 
I'll, I'll start off with 

420
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,840
fiction. 
Can it happen? 

421
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,520
Yes. 
But if it's uncomfortable and 

422
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,200
painful and it's just not 
working for you, like there's no

423
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:11,760
point in hammering it home just 
to see if it will come around. 

424
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,280
You know what I mean? 
Like I, I just don't agree with 

425
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:15,760
that. 
So like if like let's say you're

426
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:20,080
used to a 12mm drop shoe and you
go to a 0mm drop, maybe 

427
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,680
eventually it'll come around, 
but I'm not going to guarantee 

428
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,840
it. 
And if it hurts like and it just

429
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,400
keeps hurting, probably 
shouldn't keep wearing it for 

430
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,680
the sake of just wearing it. 
That's that's where I'm coming 

431
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,520
from. 
But I think at the larger scale 

432
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,280
of things to some degree, yeah, 
it'll, you'll get used to any 

433
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,480
shoe you put on for a certain 
amount of time and a lot of 

434
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:42,600
shoes that you might really 
like. 

435
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,800
You still have a break in period
and you still have some time to 

436
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:47,880
just figure out the geometry and
the mechanics. 

437
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,600
But if it's truly causing you 
discomfort, I don't think it's 

438
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:58,200
worth going to that point where 
you like feel like it comes 

439
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,480
around where you just get used 
to it. 

440
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,120
And you don't want to just get 
used to a shoe, you want to 

441
00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:05,640
enjoy the shoe. 
So. 

442
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,080
Yeah, I'm, I'm with you on this.
I'm going to also call it 

443
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,520
fiction. 
I think that we have often 

444
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,240
talked about a number of things 
surrounding drop and also a 

445
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:17,880
number of things surrounding 
comfort. 

446
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,040
So starting with drop, just to 
make sure we define that we're 

447
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,960
looking at the difference 
between the heel stack and this 

448
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,240
is measured statically without a
person in the shoe and then the 

449
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,400
amount of stack and the height 
of the shoe in the forefoot. 

450
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:35,760
So if there would be a 30mm in 
the heel and 25 in the forefoot,

451
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:40,120
that would be a 5mm drop. 
Drop can have impacts on where 

452
00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:44,360
loading goes as you run. 
So a higher drop shoe may 

453
00:22:44,360 --> 00:22:47,440
decrease a little bit of load on
the heel and like the calf 

454
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,280
complex and may put some up 
towards the knee. 

455
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,400
A zero drop shoe where the it's 
the same in the front of the 

456
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,640
back may increase the amount of 
loading in the calf, for 

457
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,280
example. 
There's a lot of other things, 

458
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:04,760
but I think the other thing that
is just reality is that drop is 

459
00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:08,720
insufficient to understand why a
shoe is comfortable or not 

460
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,840
comfortable because of how 
complex geometries are now, 

461
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,320
because we use stiffening agents
and really high stacks. 

462
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,000
So you can have a high drop shoe
with a huge rocker and it might 

463
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,680
feel super high drop, or you 
could have a low drop shoe with 

464
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,960
a big rocker and it actually 
feels like it's got some drop in

465
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,760
it, especially if there's some 
rigidity through the through 

466
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,960
that 4 foot. 
So that those are all asides 

467
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,640
about drop that they're dynamic,
they interact with other parts 

468
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,880
of the shoe. 
And that's the other part. 

469
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,760
Like you load a shoe and if it's
8mm of a drop and then you load 

470
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,120
the heel, then that functionally
is a lower drop if it's a really

471
00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:45,680
compliant foam. 
I think a good example actually 

472
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,920
was the change that Hoka made in
the Clifton. 

473
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,760
They moved to a more compliant 
midsole and they took their drop

474
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,480
from what was either 4 or 5mm up
to 8, 5 to 8. 

475
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,920
And they probably did that 
because when you load this foam,

476
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,280
it compresses more. 
So it actually it's going to 

477
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:05,280
feel dynamically like a lower 
drop kind of closer to that 

478
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,120
five. 
But that's beside the point. 

479
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,200
I think the the reason I say 
fiction for this answer is we 

480
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,720
have talked so often about the 
comfort filter and how we have a

481
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:21,440
prefer 11 philosophy of shoe 
fitting and shoe selection for 

482
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,040
injury prevention and choosing 
the right shoe for you is 

483
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,000
comfort because our body has a 
certain pathway that it wants to

484
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,400
go to. 
We can determine that pathway by

485
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,880
listening to our body and 
assessing the comfort of the 

486
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,000
shoe. 
And if we find a shoe is 

487
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,440
uncomfortable to run in, our 
body is trying to tell us 

488
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,400
something. 
And so I don't think that 

489
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,520
running in it long enough, you 
might get used to it from like 

490
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,560
a, oh, I can handle this now. 
And my tissues have adapted 

491
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,120
overtime. 
People going to a minimalist 

492
00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:52,840
shoe overtime, like if you take 
that 6 to 12 months to adapt to 

493
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,320
it, yeah, you can get used to it
doesn't mean it's going to be 

494
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:57,680
the most fun thing for you to 
run in. 

495
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,840
So I'm with you It's it's 
fiction for me. 

496
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,080
I, I don't think it's the juice 
isn't worth the squeeze and if, 

497
00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:07,320
especially if you have the 
capacity to return a shoe or not

498
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,920
buy it in the first place. 
Because I think where people run

499
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:14,360
into problems with this is they 
have a philosophical lens and 

500
00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:18,520
they're like, I should like a 
higher or lower drop shoe. 

501
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,040
Therefore, even though it's 
uncomfortable, I'm going to get 

502
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,280
it because it's going to be 
quote better for me. 

503
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,480
And I just don't think that 
that's the case. 

504
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,320
I don't know if you have 
thoughts on that. 

505
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,600
I think you said it really well.
I am, yeah. 

506
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,560
I'm not sure I have much to 
expand on there. 

507
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,440
Sweet. 
Well, let's go to our next Fact 

508
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,360
or fiction. 
This one is fact or fiction. 

509
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:46,480
Having a cool down is important.
What? 

510
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,720
Can I use my cheat? 
I wanted to use my cheat on this

511
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,040
one too, so yes you may. 
OK. 

512
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,640
I think in most situations it's 
probably not that important. 

513
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,000
I was going to say the same 
thing. 

514
00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:02,680
Which ones is it not? 
Which ones is it not important? 

515
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:04,640
Or do you want to start with 
which ones is is it yes, 

516
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,720
important? 
I would say not important for a 

517
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,720
very large majority of runs and 
efforts. 

518
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,280
Yeah you probably don't need a 
cool down. 

519
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:18,640
However, one thing that a light 
aerobic activity can help is 

520
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,560
clearing lactate. 
And so if you are doing hard 

521
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,720
track efforts and like you're 
building up a bunch of lactate, 

522
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,160
like that will actually help you
clear it a little bit better. 

523
00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:31,280
You might have a little bit less
soreness, clear the metabolites 

524
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,840
a little bit. 
I was actually looking at a 

525
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,760
review earlier today too on this
specifically. 

526
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,680
And it's interesting because 
like the metrics on like what 

527
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,120
they deem for quote, UN quote 
performance like doesn't change 

528
00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:47,880
a whole lot, you know, and enter
like in the same day or in the 

529
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,480
next day. 
But the change in lactate levels

530
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,880
is something that we do see. 
And so they can at least help 

531
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,600
with clearing that lactate. 
And if nothing else 

532
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,520
psychologically, like just make 
you feel a little bit fresher on

533
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,560
your legs, even if you aren't 
actually fresher on your legs. 

534
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,880
But in most situations, you're 
not accumulating like you're not

535
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,560
dipping into that anaerobic 
space. 

536
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:10,960
I guess I should probably, I 
should probably expand on that 

537
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,240
like as far as creating lactate.
So there's a certain point of 

538
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,640
intensity of the workload that 
you're doing and how fast you're

539
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:23,200
doing that workload to where you
start to accumulate these 

540
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,200
metabolites. 
And like lactate essentially 

541
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,880
helps clear out that in the ATP 
system, you have these excess 

542
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,160
hydrogens that get produced when
you create a lot of ATP really 

543
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,640
quickly. 
That's like that like how far 

544
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:35,680
into the weeds I want to go 
here. 

545
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:41,280
But anyways, when you're 
producing ATP or energy without 

546
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,040
oxygen in an anaerobic 
situation, you will start to 

547
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,480
produce lactate to help clear 
the metabolites that you're 

548
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:49,200
doing. 
Now. 

549
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,960
When you are easy shuffling or 
doing marathon type work and 

550
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,200
you're below that lactate 
threshold, you're really not 

551
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,480
producing a whole lot of it. 
You're looking at more aerobic 

552
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,040
benefits. 
If you're on the track doing 400

553
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,640
meter repeats and you're going 
well under 5K pace, like, yeah, 

554
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:04,880
you're going to start 
accumulating it. 

555
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:06,080
You'll feel that burn in your 
legs. 

556
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,800
They'll start getting heavy. 
Like there's a certain sensation

557
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,880
you get with building lactate. 
And when you go beyond that 

558
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,880
lactate threshold is essentially
when you pass that intensity to 

559
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:19,120
where now your body cannot keep 
up with the lactate clearance 

560
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,920
and you've hit your threshold 
and you start increasing the 

561
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,240
lactate that's coming in. 
And so that's why when people 

562
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,840
are looking at like race 
performances and things like 

563
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:31,000
that, that's a good indicator 
for performance metrics over VO2

564
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,040
Max because it's how close can 
you get without going anaerobic 

565
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:39,000
essentially in terms of how much
like workload you can put forth.

566
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,000
That is a very loaded answer and
kind of a little bit sporadic, 

567
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,160
but it's a, it's a loaded 
answer. 

568
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,160
But to help clear that lactate, 
you know, doing some light 

569
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,080
aerobic activity can help with 
clearing the lactate. 

570
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,760
If you're not going that hard, 
doesn't really matter. 

571
00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,960
I totally agree, the only other 
direction people may go with 

572
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,880
this concept is beyond just 
because I was going to say the 

573
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,320
exact same thing except less 
eloquently and. 

574
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,160
I don't know if that was 
eloquent. 

575
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,120
I was like, I'm like, how far? 
How technical do I get right 

576
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:14,920
now? 
Yeah, because you can go pretty 

577
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,280
far down that road. 
People get PhDs and just stuff 

578
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,760
like that, right? 
Like where they could tell you a

579
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,200
whole lot more than I can, but 
yeah. 

580
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,040
I think the other thing that 
people may be asking is like, 

581
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:27,640
well, what about post run 
stretching? 

582
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,840
What about that kind of, yeah, 
you know, dynamic cooldown 

583
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,160
beyond just like a easy shuffle 
or a walk or something. 

584
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,120
And I, I kind of feel like I'm 
in the same like that. 

585
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,640
It's a little bit of fiction for
me too. 

586
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,640
That doesn't mean just because I
think it's fiction and there's 

587
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,200
not really strong evidence to 
say it's like the necessary 

588
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,440
thing to stay healthy, it 
doesn't mean you shouldn't do 

589
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,040
it. 
If it's a routine that makes you

590
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,800
feel good, that your body feels 
better when you do it, awesome, 

591
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,120
do it. 
That doesn't mean that everyone 

592
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:01,160
needs to do it, but if it works 
for you, do it OK. 

593
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,400
To the next one, yeah, I'll 
expand on what you said real 

594
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:06,600
quick though. 
Like it does give you an 

595
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,000
opportunity, let's say you do 
like stretching after runs, it 

596
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,240
does give you an opportunity to 
work on flexibility and other 

597
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:12,520
things. 
It's not to say that it isn't 

598
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,120
helpful at all, right? 
Depending on. 

599
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:15,560
What you're doing? 
Yeah. 

600
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,160
It's not that. 
It's like, oh, don't do it 

601
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:18,960
because it's not. 
Research doesn't show that it 

602
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,680
actually helps with any. 
But if you're taking a little 

603
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,040
bit of extra time to work on an 
impairment that you have, well, 

604
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:25,600
yeah, you're working on an 
impairment that you have. 

605
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:27,560
Right. 
Perfect. 

606
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,680
All right, this next one is 
factor fiction. 

607
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,120
A gait analysis is key to 
becoming a better racing 

608
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,000
athlete. 
I can take this one first. 

609
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,760
I say fiction. 
That's also coming from someone 

610
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,840
who does gait analysis twice a 
week, all year long with all of 

611
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,160
our athletes at UWSP. 
When I say all of our athletes 

612
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:55,240
are distance running athletes. 
So I utilize gait analysis a ton

613
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:59,600
and I do find it helpful. 
However, I do not think that 

614
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:04,040
gait analysis and working on 
gait mechanics is this linchpin 

615
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,560
or this like special key a 
panacea for helping someone 

616
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,760
unlock something that they 
didn't have before. 

617
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,080
There are people who will 
vehemently disagree. 

618
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,600
What I think that the athletes 
get out of our gait analysis 

619
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,080
more than the actual running 
form information are all the 

620
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:26,400
conversations that we have about
their habits and all of those 

621
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,280
like baseline things that we 
always come back to with 

622
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,400
nutrition, sleep, hydration, 
training load, etcetera, 

623
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,040
etcetera, etcetera, strength 
training, these foundational 

624
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,480
things. 
And we don't often touch their 

625
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,800
gait because it's not usually 
that thing that's holding them 

626
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,920
back. 
Really hard to change gait from 

627
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,280
a performance standpoint. 
I like to think about supporting

628
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,360
people's gate, so I like to 
understand what their mechanics 

629
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,760
are so that we can make sure 
that they have strong enough 

630
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,440
tissues to handle the gate that 
they select. 

631
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,880
There are other circumstances 
where we do change based on 

632
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,640
injury history, but if it's a 
healthy runner and I know that 

633
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,080
they're a four foot striker, I'm
going to make sure that they 

634
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,360
have a really robust calf 
complex and Achilles tendon. 

635
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,480
If they are a rear foot striker,
we're going to make sure that 

636
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:16,920
their quad is in really good 
shape. 

637
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:21,280
So I use it to understand what 
we need to support more so than 

638
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,400
trying to change things. 
And I don't necessarily that 

639
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,600
think that those changes make 
them a better racing athlete. 

640
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,360
It's about being healthy, which 
long term might help your 

641
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,120
racing, but I think it's 
fiction. 

642
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,960
I don't think it's what's 
needed. 

643
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,160
I agree. 
You know, it's kind of funny. 

644
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,920
I remember I think it was Grant 
Fisher that was talking about 

645
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:46,400
long term health in the sport. 
And he was saying that like you 

646
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,640
have to understand compound 
interest in order to understand 

647
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,000
performance and racing And like 
slowly just put an end to it and

648
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,520
allowing it just build over 
longer periods of time. 

649
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,560
And then it it builds on itself 
as long as you stay healthy and 

650
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,800
keep doing the thing. 
Whereas like making a slight 

651
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,560
change in your gait mechanics, I
mean, maybe it would make you a 

652
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,720
little bit more economic, but I 
think the larger conversation 

653
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,840
would be a fiction. 
And I think in the small 

654
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,520
population where you could 
potentially make it a fact, 

655
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:18,120
they're probably already pros 
and tuning things to the 

656
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,520
smallest margin possible to try 
and squeak out another second or

657
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,960
two, right? 
Like it's not, I think for the 

658
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,880
very large majority of people, 
it is a fiction. 

659
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,840
And for all the things that you 
said and, and, and most people 

660
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,600
too, most people aren't 
conditioned enough to the point 

661
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,400
where they are robust, robust 
enough to actually get through 

662
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,440
that entire race distance 
without having any like 

663
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,480
mechanical faults from start to 
finish. 

664
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,400
They get fatigued, their form 
goes. 

665
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,360
That doesn't mean change their 
gait, that means get them better

666
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,840
at handling their gait like you 
said so. 

667
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:57,360
I think my answer changes when 
it's saying gait analysis is 

668
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,840
super valuable if you have a 
running related injury, 

669
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,600
absolutely. 
If you have a running related 

670
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,120
injury and you have the capacity
financially and time and 

671
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,800
resources to go see APT who does
running analysis and gait 

672
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,400
analysis, that's huge in 
understanding you're running 

673
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,600
related injury in combination 
with all those other keystone 

674
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,639
things that I talked about with 
nutrition, hydration, training 

675
00:34:19,639 --> 00:34:21,960
load, etcetera. 
I think that's where gait 

676
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:26,840
analysis really shines is 
helping understand recurrent or 

677
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:31,520
new running related injuries. 
OK, here's our next one. 

678
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,920
Fact or fiction. 
You need to run more than twice 

679
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:41,080
a week for benefits. 
Is this our second sheet? 

680
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,960
Yes, I define benefits. 
That's why, yeah. 

681
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,400
Do you want me to actually? 
Go for it. 

682
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:52,960
Sure, yeah. 
Can you define benefits? 

683
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,440
Let's start. 
I'm going to define benefits in 

684
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,720
multiple ways. 
We'll start with benefits being 

685
00:34:57,720 --> 00:35:03,320
defined as benefits of aerobic 
exercise for overall health and 

686
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,480
Wellness, cardiovascular 
benefits, mental health 

687
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,240
benefits. 
Yeah, then it will help. 

688
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,800
So it would be fiction. 
You don't. 

689
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,040
Then it would mean that you 
don't need to run more than 

690
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,120
twice a week to get those 
benefits. 

691
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,720
I guess for those benefits you 
could probably get on foot just 

692
00:35:21,720 --> 00:35:23,200
twice a week. 
Yeah, exactly. 

693
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,080
Yeah. 
If you're looking to build 

694
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:30,000
aerobic capacity and do more in 
terms of running, you're 

695
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:31,720
probably going to need some more
consistency. 

696
00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:34,240
It's like if you're lifting and 
you're trying to put on muscle, 

697
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:39,000
you're probably lifting at least
three times a week, every other 

698
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,720
day roughly, and you're putting 
a load that's large enough to 

699
00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:44,360
create adaptation, right? 
So like, if you're trying to 

700
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,320
create adaptation aerobically, 
twice a week probably isn't 

701
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:52,120
gonna cut it, but it's better 
than nothing, you know? 

702
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,120
And you can get basic 
maintenance that way. 

703
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,080
But for just basic 
cardiovascular function, 

704
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,840
compared to baseline being 
nothing, yeah, it'll help. 

705
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:03,960
And it helps a lot of people, 
you know, like especially some 

706
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,200
people don't have time to run 
during the week and they do a 

707
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,600
couple runs during the weekend 
and they feel a lot better. 

708
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,480
And like you said, psychologic, 
mental like well-being. 

709
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:15,560
It helps. 
Yeah, for sure. 

710
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:17,600
Stress management, things like 
that. 

711
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,120
Somebody could Fact Check me 
here. 

712
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,560
That would be great, but is the 
most recently that I looked at 

713
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:28,640
them like the ACSM guidelines 
for aerobic exercise either say 

714
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,200
that you need to do, you know, 
five days a week of moderate 

715
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,000
intensity exercise, like a walk 
for 30 minutes each of those 

716
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,920
days or two bouts of vigorous 
aerobic exercise twice a week. 

717
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,920
So that would give you the 
benefits of mitigating risk like

718
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,520
cardiovascular risk factors. 
So that's where my first thing 

719
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,080
is like fiction. 
If you want to get the benefits 

720
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,320
of mitigating cardiovascular 
risk, 2 * a week is going to do 

721
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,680
the job. 
Like you said, if the benefit 

722
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,680
you're looking for is actually 
improving your endurance, your 

723
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,640
cardiovascular endurance, you're
going to need to do something 

724
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,400
more than twice a week. 
Maybe it doesn't have to be 

725
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,480
running, I guess it could, but I
think if you're trying to become

726
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,760
a better runner, you're probably
going to need to run more than 

727
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:20,440
twice a week. 
Probably would be would be my 

728
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,840
thought. 
That's another. 

729
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,560
You have to define benefits. 
It's a tough one. 

730
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,840
You have to define benefits 
before you know if it's 

731
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:30,240
necessary to run more than twice
a week. 

732
00:37:30,240 --> 00:37:33,760
But if you're trying to train 
for like events and like work on

733
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,560
performance, I'd be hard pressed
that you could do that in less 

734
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,280
than three times a week. 
I think 3 is probably your 

735
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,320
minimum. 
I'd agree with that. 

736
00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:47,320
Cool all right and this is the 
one where there's not going to 

737
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,560
be evidence behind this one 
factor fiction. 

738
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:53,240
I should retie my shoes each run
have you read any studies on 

739
00:37:53,240 --> 00:37:56,680
that lately? 
No I would love if somebody just

740
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,200
like posts a study on on this 
but. 

741
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:03,360
Yeah, I don't know. 
I mean, I've, I've actually seen

742
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,120
some people who slip in and out 
and run quite well. 

743
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,920
So I guess I'll just have to say
it's a fiction. 

744
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,720
Like I've seen it first hand 
that like seen some pretty fast 

745
00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:16,480
people do that. 
So and then some people are like

746
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,240
total, like they got to have 
every little control over the 

747
00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:21,800
laces, have it just right to 
make sure their foot doesn't get

748
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:23,240
irritated. 
Nothing wrong with that either. 

749
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,240
I'm in the middle. 
You know, I tend to do a double 

750
00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:27,960
knot. 
I I got like a little thing that

751
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,040
I do. 
I wouldn't say it's like super 

752
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:34,720
like I'm not super focused on 
it, but I don't exactly slip in 

753
00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:38,200
and out of my shoes either. 
So yeah, what about you? 

754
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,160
I think I think I actually lean 
towards fact on this one a 

755
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,280
little more than fiction. 
I agree like you could, but I 

756
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,160
think if we are asking the 
question, should you, I think 

757
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,680
there is actually benefit to it,
especially if you're someone who

758
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,240
has changing foot volume. 
So if you have like swelling at 

759
00:38:56,240 --> 00:39:01,760
different times of the day when 
you're running or yeah, I just I

760
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:06,320
find the benefit of, hey, treat 
your feet as they are today, but

761
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,880
certain shoes are going to 
matter less too. 

762
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,760
So like looking at the Wave 
Rider 30, there is so much 

763
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,360
padding in here that you could 
probably tie this at like 10 

764
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,560
different intensities of pull on
the laces is going to feel the 

765
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,120
same because there's so much 
cushion surrounding your heel 

766
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,240
that's just holding it. 
Whereas, you know, like you're 

767
00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:29,160
talking about the Hyperion 
elite, like these racing shoes, 

768
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,400
those you're probably going to 
have to retie every single time.

769
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:35,400
I guess one that you wouldn't 
have to retie I've. 

770
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,400
Seen people do it with spikes 
which I think is crazy. 

771
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,400
They just, they just slide into 
spikes and they don't change the

772
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,720
that's crazy. 
I couldn't. 

773
00:39:45,720 --> 00:39:47,400
Tie it down. 
But then they got to like get 

774
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,520
their foot in there a little bit
and like really pull that heel 

775
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,800
up. 
But yeah, I've seen it before. 

776
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:54,560
Crazy. 
Yeah, That's that ain't me. 

777
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,360
I think that it's just nice to 
not cut off the the OR clean the

778
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,080
nerve on that. 
There's a nerve that runs on the

779
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:01,200
top. 
That's crazy. 

780
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,200
Yeah, some people do. 
It's weird. 

781
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:04,520
I don't know. 
I can't do it. 

782
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,280
I like to, I like to tie it 
every time. 

783
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,680
I'm not super neurotic about how
I tie it, but like I do, I do 

784
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,600
want to tie it every time. 
Yeah, but I've I've seen it. 

785
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,320
I've seen it. 
Or basketball sneakers. 

786
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,080
People definitely do it in 
basketball sneakers all the 

787
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,040
time. 
Yeah, You'll see them slide 

788
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,000
their heel up mid game and then 
like just go put it back in. 

789
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,080
Yeah. 
Yeah, like when someone slips 

790
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,280
out of their shoe mid game, they
don't go retie it most time they

791
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,160
just go slide this like just put
it back on and go back to 

792
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,200
playing. 
Giannis would never. 

793
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:36,120
Just kidding. 
I don't know if he would. 

794
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:37,320
All right, let's go to the next 
one. 

795
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,640
Zion Williamson couldn't because
he blows out the shoe, no. 

796
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:43,320
That's right. 
That was crazy. 

797
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:48,520
Who was Paul Georges? 
I think that's, I think you're 

798
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:49,640
right. 
I think there were Paul Georges 

799
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,960
that he blew out, yeah. 
Crazy. 

800
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,920
This next one's another toughy 
factor. 

801
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,280
Fiction. 
Running builds muscle. 

802
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,400
Oh, that's a tough one. 
OK. 

803
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:05,440
I think compared to baseline 
being nothing, yes. 

804
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,400
Does it build muscle in the way 
you probably think? 

805
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:11,360
No. 
Yeah, that's what I was just 

806
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:11,960
thinking. 
Yeah. 

807
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,360
Like in terms of like, if I run 
a bunch, are my calves going to 

808
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,480
get really big and my quads 
going to get jacked? 

809
00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:18,760
Not really. 
I mean, it's a long aerobic 

810
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:20,760
effort. 
Like muscle really needs to be 

811
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,680
stimulated with an intensity 
that like loads it in a heavy 

812
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,120
mechanical way in order to get 
bigger. 

813
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,120
However, if you don't really run
and you don't do much, like 

814
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,120
running will be a large enough 
mechanical load to do something 

815
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,840
at least in the short term, but 
there will be a plateau. 

816
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,400
Like if you want to like build 
hypertrophy, you will need to 

817
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:44,480
load it in a certain way. 
And yeah, that that's my two 

818
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,160
cents on that. 
Does that count as a? 

819
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,440
Cheat I would also. 
I don't know if that counts as a

820
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,240
cheat. 
I think it's fair. 

821
00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:53,440
I'm I'm going to call it a 
fiction too. 

822
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:58,720
I think building implies getting
larger hypertrophy and I and 

823
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,280
remember these are coming from 
people submitting questions. 

824
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,440
And so you're not going to gain 
muscle mass by running. 

825
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,680
What you will get is muscular 
adaptations to running. 

826
00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:14,080
The muscles will change 
internally from a physiological 

827
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:15,920
level. 
They will have differences in 

828
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,360
the linkages, especially when 
you do different types of long 

829
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,400
aerobic efforts that require a 
ton of endurance or speed. 

830
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,800
Stuff like the muscles will 
adapt, but you're not building 

831
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:29,720
like creating more muscle mass 
or hypertrophy. 

832
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:34,000
So I'm I'm with you, all right? 
Fact or fiction? 

833
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:38,400
I need to run at least 40 miles 
a week during marathon training 

834
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:42,480
to finish the race. 
This one's easier for you to 

835
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,200
answer. 
Why are you laughing, Nate? 

836
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:48,520
What's so funny? 
How? 

837
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:50,160
Many miles. 
Did you run a week before you 

838
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:54,320
ran Boston? 
We would joke that I ran my 

839
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:59,320
weekly mileage across one run or
two runs in the build. 

840
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:02,560
Yeah, you probably don't need to
run 40 miles a week. 

841
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,880
I look at it like the ultras, 
like, you know, sometimes like 

842
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:07,720
people are running 100 mile 
weeks. 

843
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,360
I mean, not sorry, 100 mile 
races are not running, you know,

844
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,760
100 mile weeks. 
Some of them are running like 40

845
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,080
or 50, but they have like really
big weekends or they'll have 

846
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:19,760
back-to-back days. 
Like, they plan their days 

847
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,080
accordingly, so they get used to
going long, but they don't 

848
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:26,680
necessarily run these monstrous 
weeks, especially if you're 

849
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:28,840
doing it, like, recreationally 
for fun. 

850
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,560
I think it starts to change if 
you're, like, really trying to 

851
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:35,520
go as fast as you possibly can, 
but to just finish, you're 

852
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:37,800
probably good. 
Yeah. 

853
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,320
Especially like, let's say you 
did three times a week and you 

854
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:46,520
had, what, an 8, an 8 and a 15. 
Like, that would put you at 31 

855
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:49,960
with 9 miles to spare. 
And that's not a horrible week 

856
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,200
if you're going every other day.
Right? 

857
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,800
Like, so you could probably get 
by on less than 40. 

858
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:57,520
Well, I mean, I'm saying you 
probably can. 

859
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,000
I, I've definitely run a 
marathon off of less than 40 

860
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,400
mile weeks. 
I should probably just, I know I

861
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:03,920
should probably just come out 
and say it. 

862
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:09,560
I'm sorry, but no, I mean the 
math can work out. 

863
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,360
It's like, and especially like 
let's say 1010 and 20, that's 40

864
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,360
right there. 
So it's doable. 

865
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:21,280
Is it advised? 
Probably not unless you, if it's

866
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,080
not your first rodeo and you 
know kind of what to expect and 

867
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,160
you know your body well enough, 
you probably can do it. 

868
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,280
If you've never done a marathon 
before, get your body used to 

869
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,480
having the cumulative load that 
is running for long periods of 

870
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,160
time. 
And the way you do that is just,

871
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,240
you know, building it slow, 
steady, get the consistency, 

872
00:44:38,240 --> 00:44:41,560
don't go super long initially 
and like go beyond your 

873
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:44,400
mechanical capacity for your 
tendons, your muscles, etcetera.

874
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:49,160
Once you have that tolerance 
built, you're probably OK. 

875
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,120
Yep. 
But some of that will come with 

876
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:57,200
experience and just doing it. 
Yeah, I call it fiction as well.

877
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:02,000
I, I think that there is way too
much variability in people's 

878
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:06,520
ability to adapt and train for 
different types of physical 

879
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,800
challenges, including the 
marathon, that there's going to 

880
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,360
be runners that I've worked with
who can't do, they just can't do

881
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,120
the high mileage stuff. 
They can only do low mileage. 

882
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,640
And then we add in cross 
training or I think the other 

883
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,320
thing is we get strapped to 
ideals, quote UN quote. 

884
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:27,400
And you want to only shoot for 
the ideal training program that 

885
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,800
you found online, which is going
to have you, you know, Max out 

886
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:36,200
at these 4050 sixty mile weeks. 
But you also have like 4 kids at

887
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,040
home. 
You have a full time job. 

888
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:42,600
Like, there's sometimes where 
you just have to not do what in 

889
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:44,720
your mind is ideal because it is
possible. 

890
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,160
And so there's some level of 
realism that can come with the 

891
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:52,400
fact that you could complete a 
marathon with less than 40 miles

892
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:56,360
a week on your calendar if 
you're the right person to be 

893
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:58,120
able to handle that. 
Like it's, it's not like 

894
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,080
everyone can do this no matter 
what. 

895
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,840
And I think that there's 
probably wisdom for people who 

896
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:06,240
are wanting to do low mileage 
training to spend longer to the 

897
00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:09,080
marathon build. 
So, you know, if you are 

898
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,360
somebody who's already baseline 
running 30 miles a week, you 

899
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,920
bump it up for higher mileage 
for your marathon training. 

900
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,480
You can work that into a 12 week
training plan or something 

901
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,600
depending on where you're at. 
Whereas if you're new to this 

902
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:24,200
game, you can't go high mileage 
for, you know, practical 

903
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,760
reasons. 
Spread out your training program

904
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:30,120
over six months, that's going to
be a lot more feasible. 

905
00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:33,680
And it just, yeah, it just 
changes the, the equation. 

906
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,600
But it's just so individual that
it's it's hard to give like 

907
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:41,840
blanket advice in my opinion. 
Yeah, especially when it comes 

908
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:43,840
to finishing. 
Don't underestimate the power of

909
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,520
just will. 
Totally. 

910
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,360
You might get hurt afterwards. 
Might get hurt, but you could do

911
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:51,960
it. 
I was thinking like, this is a 

912
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:53,640
few years ago. 
I'm like, I'm pretty sure if I 

913
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,200
remember this correctly, the 
comedian Bert Kreischer did one 

914
00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:00,200
off of no training to get out 
of. 

915
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:01,480
Like it was in his inner friend 
group. 

916
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:03,440
They had like a thing who did 
the least activity in like a 

917
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:06,360
month, like had something that 
would go against them At the 

918
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:07,800
very end. 
He was like, I'm just gonna run 

919
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,880
a marathon like. 
That's hilarious. 

920
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:15,680
My I have a good friend and she 
has the story where she had 

921
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,720
signed up for a marathon. 
It was when she had a bunch of 

922
00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:22,440
really young kids and just could
not get any training in. 

923
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,480
And so she decided I'm going to 
run this marathon anyway and 

924
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,200
just started running and running
and running. 

925
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:32,880
And she got to like mile 16 of 
the race and just really crashed

926
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:36,400
out and was just down on the 
ground laying there. 

927
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,200
And, you know, she was laying 
for a while. 

928
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:44,840
And the people who were coming 
from the aid station wanted to 

929
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:46,880
like touch. 
She's like, I just need to rest 

930
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:48,880
for a little bit. 
Don't touch me because then that

931
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,920
will disqualify me from this 
event because they had this rule

932
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:53,960
if you needed medical tent, they
just pull you. 

933
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,680
And she's like, just don't touch
me, I'm going to finish this 

934
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:58,160
thing. 
And she ended up just like 

935
00:47:58,160 --> 00:47:59,720
laying down on the course for a 
while. 

936
00:47:59,720 --> 00:48:02,720
And then she did go and finish. 
So, you know, there's lots of 

937
00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:04,280
ways to get across the finish 
line. 

938
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,000
And she didn't train like at 
all. 

939
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,360
I think her longest run before 
it was 6 miles. 

940
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,680
There's also a lady, we have 
this race event in town that 

941
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:14,600
just started this year. 
It's called the Dormy. 

942
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:18,240
It's actually a cool event. 
So when a senior finishes their 

943
00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:22,200
last track race, there's a one 
mile block on campus around the 

944
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,200
dorms called Dormy. 
Earned through the dorms area 

945
00:48:25,720 --> 00:48:30,400
and they have to run it as many 
times as they can until they 

946
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:34,520
have to stop. 
And it's a pretty there's some 

947
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:38,080
other strict rules, but like for
example, the record right now is

948
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:41,040
set this year was 100 lap over 
100 laps. 

949
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:45,120
It was like over 100 miles, but 
they created one for the public.

950
00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:48,280
And there's this other good 
friend of mine or friend of mine

951
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:53,040
who who runs and her longest run
before trying the dormy, which 

952
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:54,920
was like a 12 hour endurance 
challenge. 

953
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:56,840
How many laps can you do in 12 
hours? 

954
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,560
Her longest run was 10 miles and
she did over 50. 

955
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:05,440
So it's possible these things 
are possible. 

956
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:11,360
All right, so our last one that 
we are going to do today, factor

957
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,960
fiction. 
Shorter runs where you don't 

958
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:20,560
stop or like take a walking 
break is better than doing walk 

959
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:25,440
running intervals. 
So doing shorter runs where you 

960
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,920
don't have to take any walking 
breaks is better than a walk run

961
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:32,360
interval work out. 
I don't like that question. 

962
00:49:33,720 --> 00:49:35,040
Why not? 
I feel. 

963
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:36,640
I have an easy. 
I feel like this is an easy 

964
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:39,080
answer. 
Better for who? 

965
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,440
If you can't handle the short 
run, then the run walk will be 

966
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:45,960
better for you. 
If you can't handle the short 

967
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:47,640
run, the short run will be 
better for you. 

968
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,800
Well, I think what it's saying 
is like, oh, if I do walk, run 

969
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:54,280
intervals, I could do a 45 
minute work out. 

970
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:57,280
If I don't do it, I'll just do 
30. 

971
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,360
And it's saying that doing that 
30 would be better than doing 

972
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:03,240
the 45 well. 
That's a hard 1. 

973
00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:05,480
I don't know that it would, 
because you'd still be getting 

974
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:07,680
aerobic work the entire time. 
Percent. 

975
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:09,280
Yeah. 
So I mean, if we're able to 

976
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,720
maximize, like if it's a low 
intensity and you're doing 

977
00:50:11,720 --> 00:50:14,760
aerobic like level work, yeah, 
you should. 

978
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,400
The longer you go, the more 
aerobic attitations you'll have 

979
00:50:17,720 --> 00:50:19,560
because even when you stop 
running, your heart's still 

980
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,840
working, correct? 
So it's not like it just, it's 

981
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:24,560
not like a start, stop, start, 
stop. 

982
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:27,640
Like it will hang on for longer 
than you think. 

983
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:29,760
And if you're running and you're
walking and then you're running 

984
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,840
again, it will come back up and 
then it will stay up. 

985
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:36,080
So I mean, I guess the run, 
walk, even though I don't do 

986
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:40,680
that, you know? 
I think the reality is that not 

987
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:44,160
everyone benefits from a walk 
run program what you're saying, 

988
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:48,440
But if you're in that space 
where you can either go further 

989
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:53,360
and do a walk run interval or 
stop or or do a shorter run 

990
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,560
only, I would say heck yeah. 
Add some walk run intervals, 

991
00:50:56,720 --> 00:51:00,240
especially if you're like new to
running like and you're trying 

992
00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:04,280
to go to your first 5K, first 
10K, first half marathon, use 

993
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:07,360
walk run intervals for sure. 
I've even, I've coached an 

994
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:10,520
athlete that we switched to walk
run intervals for 1/2 marathon 

995
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,480
and they actually PR their half 
marathon doing walk run 

996
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:15,440
intervals. 
So it's during the race. 

997
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:18,000
Like it wasn't just in training,
they did it during the race. 

998
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,280
And there's a lot. 
I think that what you said is 

999
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:25,080
exactly it. 
Like the time under stress, the 

1000
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:27,800
amount of time your heart, your 
muscles, all those things are 

1001
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:30,400
going to have to work is what 
creates the adaptation. 

1002
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:34,320
It's not running only, it's this
run and the walk is continuing 

1003
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,040
to keep the heart moving, 
continuing to put demand on the 

1004
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,080
tissues. 
They're going to adapt to that. 

1005
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:41,960
So if you can use them to go 
further, I actually think I 

1006
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:44,520
would flip this and saying 
Walker and intervals are better 

1007
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:47,160
than shortening your runs just 
because you can't keep running. 

1008
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,320
I would probably say that if 
you're having to stop because 

1009
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,960
you're so tired, your intensity 
is too high anyway and then 

1010
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:57,640
that's not beneficial for you. 
Again, it depends on who you are

1011
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:00,600
and what what's going on. 
Yeah, I agree. 

1012
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,160
I think one example too, it's 
like, let's say you are looking 

1013
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:05,360
at someone who's experienced to 
go look at the trails. 

1014
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,520
Like people are walking and 
walking all the time because 

1015
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,840
they can go farther. 100%. 
More especially over these 

1016
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:15,520
longer distances, right? 
So it's like a lot of them don't

1017
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:17,960
run every second of the race. 
Right. 

1018
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:23,120
And you can even conserve 
energy, especially on the trail 

1019
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,840
when you're doing hills and like
you're climbing. 

1020
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:29,200
A climb with a power walk might 
save more energy than trying to 

1021
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:32,520
run up that hill, even if it 
saves you 15 seconds to get up. 

1022
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,240
That or even a minute, depending
on how long the race is. 

1023
00:52:35,240 --> 00:52:39,000
So cool. 
Anything else that you want to 

1024
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,000
add before we wrap things up 
today? 

1025
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,400
Al Horford should be signing 
with the Warriors again. 

1026
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:48,920
We just drafted Yoxel 
Lindenberg. 

1027
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:54,200
I like that Graham Ek undrafted.
I think that's actually a pretty

1028
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,320
good signing. 
He's a Gonzaga boy as I'm a same

1029
00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:00,080
Aries guy. 
So I mean rooting against them 

1030
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,640
for the last four years, but 
I'll I'll root for him now. 

1031
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:04,760
You'll take hopefully he makes 
the final roster. 

1032
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,400
I like him as a player. 
He gets a little angry and can 

1033
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,000
lose his emotions sometimes, but
he is a good player. 

1034
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:13,600
I think he might be good enough 
to make a a good roster spot 

1035
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:15,400
there undrafted. 
That'd be huge. 

1036
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:19,960
Perfect. 
So I'll take that as you have 

1037
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,640
nothing else. 
Yeah, let's go say I'll take it 

1038
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:26,720
as you have nothing else to add.
But thank you all for sticking 

1039
00:53:26,720 --> 00:53:30,480
with David and I. 
We love to nerd out on all the 

1040
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:34,000
sports things as we go through 
life, and you all are the 

1041
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:35,840
victims of that. 
So we apologize. 

1042
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:38,040
But if you're wanting to check 
out more of what we do with 

1043
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:41,200
Doctors of Running, talking 
about the science of running and

1044
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,960
the art of running and footwear 
and all that, you can go to 

1045
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:46,920
doctorsofrunning.com. 
All of our articles are up on 

1046
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,360
that website. 
You can also check us out at 

1047
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,240
Darkness Running and all social 
media platforms. 

1048
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:53,160
Thanks for joining us.