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Hello everybody and welcome to 
the Doctors of Running Podcast, 

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where we, a group of doctors of 
physical therapy, discuss the 

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art and science of running and 
the stuff that we put on our 

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feet. 
Today at the round table, we 

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have the wonderful, the fabulous
founder of Doctors of Running, 

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Dr. Matthew Klein. 
We also have Dr. David Salas and

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myself. 
I'm Nathan Brown, and we get to 

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do a mailbag today, which we 
always love to do. 

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So thank you all for reaching 
out, sending your questions and 

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your thoughts. 
And as always, this episode and 

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this podcast is powered by our 
partner Rabbit Running. 

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Let's get started with our 
in-for-testing segment. 

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Matt, what have you been running
in? 

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What are you testing? 
What kind of gear? 

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So a couple ones that I have had
previously. 

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Really enjoying the Puma 
ForeverRun Nitro 3. 

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I think major upper update from 
the last version. 

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Feels more like a mild stability
shoe. 

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It's been really nice. 
Durability has really been good.

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I have 55 almost 60 miles on 
them already. 

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Been doing a ton of stuff in 
them. 

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Not the bounciest midsole, so I 
think of all of the Nitro line. 

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This is probably one of the 
least responsive, but it is 

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definitely on the more stable 
end with kind of the wider sole.

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A lot of the if if you ran in 
the previous version, the 

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midsole should be mostly 
familiar to you. 

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I would say it's just a teeny 
bit more neutral. 

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So I think, and they're 
advertising this as a, hey, if 

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you have neutral mechanics, you 
just want something more stable,

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if you have stability needs and 
you want to try something kind 

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of best both worlds. 
I had done a workout in this, it

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was a progressive run, and it it
did surprisingly well. 

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Obviously, not meant for 
workouts. 

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Boom, I would love to see this 
just a little bit lighter, but I

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also understand the other 
direction of going both ways. 

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But yeah, upper update really 
fixes a lot of stuff that I was 

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asking for with the last 
version. 

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So that one's been really good. 
Should have by the time this 

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comes out, should have written 
review. 

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Still getting more miles on the 
Arahi 9. 

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And I was reflecting on what 
David said last time. 

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Was it David or Nathan? 
Which one of you said I was 

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probably mean? 
I was, I was complaining about, 

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like, hey, it's not the most 
responsive midsole. 

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Still great for walking, but 
it's, it is pretty consistent. 

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So I will say previous version's
midsole is gonna feel similar. 

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A little more room in the 
forefoot, which is nice, but 

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still awesome walking shoe. 
I will say, I think as I've run 

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in this more, if you the really 
good running stability running 

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shoe, and this shoe is one of 
my, not this one, but one of the

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top stability shoes of the year 
is the Hoka Gaviota. 

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This year was fantastic. 
I think this one works a little 

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bit better as a walking shoe, 
but I have gotten running miles 

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in it. 
If you want to run like a little

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bit more traditional midsole 
feel, it's still pretty solid 

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and the outsole's holding up a 
lot better. 

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From racing stuff, the Reebok 
Speed Shifter has been a really 

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good pleasant surprise. 
So, really enjoying this shoe. 

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A, I believe, an ATPU midsole, 
full-length carbon fiber plate 

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with some cutouts in here. 
I did not know what to expect. 

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This is advertised as a like 
workout training shoe. 

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It can move. 
It's it the midsole is very 

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interesting. 
It's not the most stable 

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platform, but it's not as 
unstable as I was expecting. 

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There's some cutouts on both 
sides here. 

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Actually, did pretty well. 
I did a I've done a couple 

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workouts in them and really 
enjoyed it. 

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Very firm, but very bouncy feel 
underfoot. 

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Really rolling ride that like 
it's doesn't feel highly soft, 

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but it moves and it rolls very 
nicely. 

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Kind of one of the more rockered
shoes I've kind of felt in the 

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last couple months. 
Upper is a little bit snug, 

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obviously. 
That toe box tapers pretty 

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quick, but it didn't really 
bother me that much. 

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I was pleasantly surprised. 
The only thing that I'm not the 

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biggest fan of is the heel 
counter is a little stiff and 

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tapers in a little bit, but 
didn't bug me as much as I 

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expected. 
So Reebok, hey, good job. 

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There is there's life. 
How would you compare that foam 

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to the way you described it made
me think of the Endorphin Speed,

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like the, the PWRRUN PB used in 
those models? 

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Is it anywhere close to that 
kind of a feel? 

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Like that firmer but a little 
bit of a pop, or is it 

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different? 
It's different because there is 

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a lot more pop, and I would say 
forefoot is much smoother than 

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the Speed, just the geometry, 
the way it's set up. 

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Definitely carbon-plated, so a 
little bit stiffer there. 

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But a smoother ride overall. 
The rocker is a lot better. 

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The Speed, like I like that shoe
going fast. 

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I don't like it for anything 
else. 

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It's just not comfortable for 
anything going easy for me 

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personally. 
This one, warming up, running 

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fast, everything felt really 
good. 

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So foam seems a little bit more 
adaptable, but definitely has 

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more bounce than the Speed. 
Cool. 

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And do you know price on it? 
I don't. 

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I should have brought the spec 
sheet before this, but I'll call

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it. 
Yeah, I don't remember. 

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I think it might be in the 200, 
like 200 buck range. 

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So not awful, but good outsole, 
handle it, grips really nicely, 

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but really enjoying that. 
And then I have another shoe 

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here, but I think I'm gonna wait
because I can guarantee that 

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David's gonna bring it up. 
Great. 

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You can guarantee that I'm gonna
bring it up. 

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I guarantee you. 
I bet you 50 bucks you bring it 

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up. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 

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yeah. 
Well let's let's make the people

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wait and I'll go next because 
mine should be short. 

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I've been cycling back to old 
stuff. 

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I haven't been testing anything 
new. 

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I wanted to give a little update
on the Zen Speed Plus from LEMS.

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I have spent a ton of time on my
feet in this shoe. 

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Love it for daily wear. 
Absolutely love it. 

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Fit is fantastic. 
It's super duper firm, which 

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means it's also really good for 
playing kickball with my kids in

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the yard because I'm not gonna 
roll an ankle as easily. 

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So though I do not think that 
this is gonna be a shoe that I 

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will ever enjoy for running, 
awesome shoe to be on my feet 

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on. 
Great platform, super 

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comfortable. 
It makes me think about LEMS as 

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a brand for like daily use 
stuff. 

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Like I need to look into it more
because it's super comfortable. 

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Really enjoy it. 
David, did you have something 

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you wanted to add about this 
one? 

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I agree completely. 
I think standing, walking, 

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phenomenal shoe. 
It's a neutral shoe, but still 

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feels really supportive 
underfoot just because of that 

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cork insole and the firmer 
nature of the foam, full contact

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outsole. 
Like this thing, I mean, I say 

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all those things, it almost 
sounds like it'll be a brick, 

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but it's it's a great standing 
platform and walking. 

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I think running it's fine-ish. 
It's not great. 

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Like I find that if I run like 
on my forefeet, like it actually

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isn't too bad, but it's just not
a sustainable gait pattern for 

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me at all. 
When I'm running for my heel, 

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it's a really stiff platform and
the cork insole makes it a 

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little worse and it almost feels
like a shank where I kind of 

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like land and then I slap. 
But then if I'm kind of like 

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just pedaling my feet, just like
small, flowy steps, I'm landing 

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again, landing more anterior on 
my forefoot, it actually feels 

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fine. 
Yeah. 

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It's just not sustainable. 
So but for all day wear, oh my 

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gosh, yeah, they're great. 
Yeah. 

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You know. 
I like 'em a lot. 

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The other thing that I did was 
after our conversation where we 

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ranked those kind of super max 
cushion shoes. 

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I realized two things. 
One, we should have definitely 

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had the Glycerin Max in there. 
I know we should have subbed 

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that in for the MagMax. 
I think it would have been a 

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better fit price point. 
Everything would have been more 

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on point. 
But the other thing that I did 

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is I went back and ran in most 
of those shoes. 

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I was super surprised. 
I actually did that this 

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morning. 
So I ran in the Sky Prime, 

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Vomero Premium, and the Slow 
Kush, just to like compare what 

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it felt like to be on foot. 
And I did my long run in the 

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CloudRun Cloud Monster Hyper 3, 
but man, the Vomero Premium is 

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so heavy. 
I couldn't believe it. 

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I I went from Sky Prime to 
Vomero and I felt like I was my 

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hip flexors were like working to
like lift with that shoe 

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through. 
I didn't realize how heavy that 

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shoe feels in comparison to the 
other ones. 

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I don't remember how I voted 
last week, but this week I'm 

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voting, I'd vote Sky Prime a 
million times over the Vomero 

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Premium, just because of that, 
that weight. 

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And I was going, I was running 
like ten minute pace, ten minute

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per mile. 
I was not moving. 

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So it, and even at that, it felt
heavy. 

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Last, yeah, though, because the 
Vomero Premium is so bouncy. 

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Right. 
Like it's a weird experience 

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having a shoe that heavy but 
also that bouncy. 

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It's so bizarre. 
It felt, it felt unbalanced 

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almost. 
And I just I maybe I didn't run 

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in it long enough to get into 
rhythm but I just it was very 

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bizarre. 
And then the last thing I just 

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wanted to give a little Alphafly
4 update. 

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I did some 800 repeats at sub 5K
effort. 

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So I was faster than my like 5K 
PR. 

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I wasn't supposed to be, but 
that's what ended what ended up 

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happening. 
And I was really reflecting more

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on what is it like to review 
shoes when you're outside your 

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comfort zone versus repeating 
something that you've done 

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before. 
You know? 

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And I think that I I one thing I
noticed about if I was blaming 

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blaming quote unquote the shoe, 
when I was really getting 

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fatigued, when I was really like
hitting my heel a lot harder, 

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that heel kinda bottomed out a 
bit more. 

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So that would be the one thing 
to think. 

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But otherwise it kept up really 
nice rhythmically when I was 

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feeling fresh, but when I was 
tired, I was just slamming 

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through that foam and I was 
kinda hitting down too hard. 

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So that's something I'm gonna 
keep you know, I've got more 

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workouts on the horizon, so I'm 
gonna keep hitting it in those 

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and just see how things feel. 
But I think a little of it is 

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more of my fitness level and my 
ability to pace myself because I

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was going faster than my body is
good at. 

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So but otherwise still super 
squeaky, still really nice and 

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responsive, rhythmic, not the 
lightest racing shoe out there, 

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but it it felt good for for the 
workout. 

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And then I also took back out 
the Clifton Pro. 

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Love that shoe as a as a daily 
trainer. 

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It not for workouts necessarily,
like it could do some speed 

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stuff, but it felt really nice. 
Roomy toe box. 

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So that's what I got. 
David, what about you? 

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Yeah, I think it's interesting 
you bring up the Clifton Pro 

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because I feel like this shoe 
embodies a lot of the the one 

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that I'm gonna bring up a lot of
that shoe just better in my 

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opinion. 
Oh wow. 

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I talked about it last week, but
I've gotten more miles on it 

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now, and it's the Mount to Coast
C1. 

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I want to test that so bad. 
My gosh, dude, this might be my 

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trainer of the year. 
Like a latecomer. 

224
00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,198
Like I I don't even think it's 
recency bias at this point. 

225
00:11:07,198 --> 00:11:10,241
Now I've gotten more runs in it.
I'm like, holy crap, I really 

226
00:11:10,241 --> 00:11:12,640
like this shoe. 
Dang, I need to try it. 

227
00:11:12,639 --> 00:11:15,567
Yeah, but it's a weird, it's 
kind of like the Cloud Monster 

228
00:11:15,567 --> 00:11:19,259
Hyper 3 in that there's a softer
top foam and a firmer, like kind

229
00:11:19,259 --> 00:11:20,759
of EVA bottom foam. 
Wow. 

230
00:11:20,759 --> 00:11:23,759
And so it's got a very 
structured sensation to it. 

231
00:11:23,759 --> 00:11:26,880
But the foam up top isn't like 
marshmallowy soft either. 

232
00:11:26,879 --> 00:11:30,208
So it is a little bit of a 
firmer feel, but it's really, 

233
00:11:30,208 --> 00:11:31,937
really protective. 
It feels like you could just go 

234
00:11:31,937 --> 00:11:33,667
run 50 miles in it. 
You know what I mean? 

235
00:11:33,667 --> 00:11:35,259
Yeah. 
And like Mount to Coast does 

236
00:11:35,259 --> 00:11:38,091
make shoes for ultra marathons, 
so that's part of the reason why

237
00:11:38,091 --> 00:11:40,585
I'm saying that. 
And then the upper two is just 

238
00:11:40,585 --> 00:11:42,875
so comfortable. 
It's like got wide, it tapers in

239
00:11:42,875 --> 00:11:46,332
a way that actually makes sense.
You got a good amount of volume,

240
00:11:46,332 --> 00:11:49,368
but it locks down really well. 
You got your finger up. 

241
00:11:49,368 --> 00:11:51,482
What's that? 
I'm feeling like Matt right now 

242
00:11:51,482 --> 00:11:53,542
with my excitement levels about 
a shoe I don't have. 

243
00:11:53,542 --> 00:11:56,023
Go ahead, Matt. 
Yeah, I think that this might be

244
00:11:56,023 --> 00:11:58,799
one, Nathan, to reach out about 
just because it it it's great. 

245
00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,248
The drop is a little bit low for
me right now, just was a little 

246
00:12:02,248 --> 00:12:04,080
bit irritating, so I heel lift. 
Fine, working. 

247
00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,954
But it's the first time that I 
think a Mount to Coast shoe has 

248
00:12:06,954 --> 00:12:09,776
actually fit me true to size and
not felt like it felt short. 

249
00:12:09,776 --> 00:12:12,459
So I would definitely go true to
size with this one. 

250
00:12:12,459 --> 00:12:14,160
Previous ones I would love to 
see. 

251
00:12:14,159 --> 00:12:18,761
I'm I'm curious about a half 
size up, but fit is really nice.

252
00:12:18,761 --> 00:12:20,879
It feels exactly as David 
described. 

253
00:12:20,879 --> 00:12:23,416
It's an ultra fit, it's 
something like, hey, you get 

254
00:12:23,416 --> 00:12:25,696
comfortable, you get this 
lockdown, and it's it's nice 

255
00:12:25,696 --> 00:12:28,000
because there's additional ways 
to lock down the upper. 

256
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,100
They've got the speed laces and 
traditional laces right here 

257
00:12:31,100 --> 00:12:34,562
that you can kind of modify. 
Again, and that's the point of 

258
00:12:34,562 --> 00:12:37,493
being an ultra marathon shoe, is
adapting that depending on foot 

259
00:12:37,493 --> 00:12:39,200
swelling. 
It's nice, it's just right. 

260
00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,271
It's not too voluminous, where 
like you feel like you're 

261
00:12:41,271 --> 00:12:42,720
sliding, but it's also not too 
narrow. 

262
00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,388
It just sits just in the middle.
And I will say I've run a little

263
00:12:46,388 --> 00:12:48,884
bit in it. 
I've had some other stuff I've 

264
00:12:48,884 --> 00:12:52,693
been testing, but I've walked a 
ton in it and wearing it all 

265
00:12:52,693 --> 00:12:54,797
day, great. 
So they yeah, they they know 

266
00:12:54,797 --> 00:12:57,324
what they're doing and they I 
think they accomplished exactly 

267
00:12:57,324 --> 00:13:00,054
what they were looking to do 
with this shoe. 

268
00:13:00,054 --> 00:13:02,023
So plus it's actually fairly 
stable. 

269
00:13:02,023 --> 00:13:03,991
Yeah, yeah, it's actually 
decently stable. 

270
00:13:03,991 --> 00:13:06,544
Yeah. 
And it's one of the few shoes I 

271
00:13:06,544 --> 00:13:09,323
can genuinely say I forgot I was
wearing it twice. 

272
00:13:09,323 --> 00:13:10,620
Wow. 
And that happened to Klein 

273
00:13:10,620 --> 00:13:13,068
before the recording last time I
remember you were like, Oh yeah,

274
00:13:13,068 --> 00:13:15,564
I'm wearing this. 
I forgot I was wearing on. 

275
00:13:15,564 --> 00:13:17,760
Yeah. 
So the upper fits really well. 

276
00:13:17,759 --> 00:13:21,192
Like it's just a cozy material, 
but it's still breathable and 

277
00:13:21,192 --> 00:13:24,000
it's just like a firmer rocker, 
really protective ride. 

278
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,499
So yeah, really, really liking 
the Mount to Coast C1. 

279
00:13:27,499 --> 00:13:30,640
So I felt like that was worth 
bringing up. 

280
00:13:30,639 --> 00:13:33,040
Another one I'll bring up, and 
this is actually more 

281
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,772
reminiscent earlier in the year 
we were seeded this ironically, 

282
00:13:35,772 --> 00:13:39,675
and it's gonna I'm gonna hate 
that this is happening to me 

283
00:13:39,675 --> 00:13:42,760
again. 
When we had this seeded, I had a

284
00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,896
foot injury and I think it 
skewed kind of my thoughts on 

285
00:13:46,896 --> 00:13:50,892
some of the shoes early on. 
And I wanted to make sure like, 

286
00:13:50,892 --> 00:13:53,645
okay, I'm feeling good. 
I'm running in trails a lot 

287
00:13:53,645 --> 00:13:55,754
more. 
Like, let's put this on and give

288
00:13:55,754 --> 00:13:58,371
it a go. 
And see if my thoughts are still

289
00:13:58,371 --> 00:14:00,198
accurate to what they used to 
be. 

290
00:14:00,198 --> 00:14:02,570
Oh no. 
Now that's the Brooks Cascadia 

291
00:14:02,570 --> 00:14:05,900
Elite. 
So I took it out from my run 

292
00:14:05,900 --> 00:14:08,688
earlier today. 
And I can say actually it was 

293
00:14:08,688 --> 00:14:11,608
really, really nice. 
I actually, I liked it way more 

294
00:14:11,608 --> 00:14:15,280
today than I did back then. 
And I think some of that was my 

295
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,160
own sensitivity in my foot and 
just the way I was transitioning

296
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,040
off of the rocker. 
It's steady at easy paces, it 

297
00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,920
feels supportive, structured, 
like it feels good, wide base, 

298
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,980
the Vibram Megagrip outsole 
grips really well. 

299
00:14:26,980 --> 00:14:29,692
And the bootie construction 
holds well. 

300
00:14:29,692 --> 00:14:32,400
Hopefully, I didn't break my 
ankle. 

301
00:14:32,399 --> 00:14:35,207
Because ironically, I got 
through all the sections I 

302
00:14:35,207 --> 00:14:40,027
wanted to, and then at the end 
of my run on a section that is 

303
00:14:40,027 --> 00:14:44,538
laughably runnable, like I just 
took my brain off of it, I let 

304
00:14:44,538 --> 00:14:48,836
my brain wander and I I beefed. 
I hit it hard. 

305
00:14:48,836 --> 00:14:52,115
So my ankle's pretty swollen 
right now. 

306
00:14:52,115 --> 00:14:55,179
Trail monster, gotcha. 
Yeah, it wasn't the Cascadia 

307
00:14:55,179 --> 00:14:58,302
Elite's fault by any means. 
That was more just me being 

308
00:14:58,302 --> 00:15:00,000
negligent. 
But the ride is fun. 

309
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,264
Going downhill, it really like I
didn't even go on any like 

310
00:15:03,264 --> 00:15:06,298
major, major descents, but like 
you can really feel that DNA 

311
00:15:06,298 --> 00:15:10,014
Gold come alive and like if you 
are someone that likes to send 

312
00:15:10,014 --> 00:15:13,319
it, that foam response, like it 
just picks it up real quick and 

313
00:15:13,319 --> 00:15:15,792
it's like, whoa, okay. 
This is what it's like to run 

314
00:15:15,792 --> 00:15:18,240
fast downhill. 
Like so it's cool. 

315
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,012
You know, I think if my ankle 
gets better, it's definitely 

316
00:15:21,012 --> 00:15:23,279
something I would consider 
running a trail race in. 

317
00:15:23,279 --> 00:15:25,727
And it runs well on the road, 
too. 

318
00:15:25,727 --> 00:15:27,560
It's not like it's trail 
exclusive. 

319
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,000
So I wanted to bring that back 
up. 

320
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,749
I had a calling to wear that 
shoe again because I I don't 

321
00:15:32,749 --> 00:15:34,360
know. 
I was just like, you know, I 

322
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,559
don't think I gave it a fair 
shot the first time. 

323
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,431
And it didn't make my list of 
like favorite trail shoes 

324
00:15:39,431 --> 00:15:42,320
halfway through the year or 
whatever before, but now it 

325
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,920
probably would. 
So I'm happy I tried it again. 

326
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,533
Yeah, cool. 
Yeah, and then just got a couple

327
00:15:48,533 --> 00:15:50,862
more shoes here. 
So I'll be quick with these 

328
00:15:50,862 --> 00:15:52,859
ones. 
I do want to say before I bring 

329
00:15:52,859 --> 00:15:55,463
these up, we are sponsored by 
Rabbit for the podcast, but even

330
00:15:55,463 --> 00:15:58,177
though we're sponsored for the 
podcast, we are going to be very

331
00:15:58,177 --> 00:16:00,377
objective still with our 
footwear reviews and stuff like 

332
00:16:00,377 --> 00:16:02,540
that because they are making 
shoes now. 

333
00:16:02,540 --> 00:16:06,240
So one of these is the Easy 
Chaser that just came in. 

334
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:11,115
This is meant to just be easy 
day miles, forget the pace, just

335
00:16:11,115 --> 00:16:13,360
be cozy. 
You're chasing easy miles. 

336
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,840
And so the upper is a little bit
thick, but it holds pretty well.

337
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,550
The foam is super soft. 
I don't know what the exact 

338
00:16:19,550 --> 00:16:22,000
material is on this. 
The rocker is not too bad. 

339
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,976
The one thing with this though 
is the forefoot taper is really 

340
00:16:24,976 --> 00:16:28,015
sharp and it's something that I 
can feel on my toes, which means

341
00:16:28,015 --> 00:16:30,969
there's going to be a lot of 
people I think that are going to

342
00:16:30,969 --> 00:16:34,444
really notice that. 
David's got like the the can do 

343
00:16:34,444 --> 00:16:38,657
anything feet most of the time. 
So when you're feeling something

344
00:16:38,657 --> 00:16:40,880
something. 
Yeah, it's something I notice. 

345
00:16:40,879 --> 00:16:44,046
So I'm like, you know, it's not 
so much that I think it's gonna 

346
00:16:44,046 --> 00:16:47,632
cause me an issue, but I can 
feel it even just standing and 

347
00:16:47,632 --> 00:16:49,736
walking. 
So hopefully it breaks in with 

348
00:16:49,736 --> 00:16:53,058
more miles, assuming I'm getting
more miles in the next couple 

349
00:16:53,058 --> 00:16:55,908
weeks. 
And then the other one is the 

350
00:16:55,908 --> 00:17:00,776
Pace Chaser from Rabbit. 
Now this is meant to be a plated

351
00:17:00,776 --> 00:17:04,000
kind of lightweight trainer. 
You know, training companion, 

352
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,800
could race if you wanted to 
compete with the Endorphin 

353
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,797
Speed, Deviate Nitro, like think
that kind of category. 

354
00:17:11,797 --> 00:17:16,300
And it's interesting. 
So it's an ATPU based foam, it 

355
00:17:16,300 --> 00:17:18,454
is carbon-plated. 
Outsole traction is quite good. 

356
00:17:18,454 --> 00:17:20,960
I did take it to the track 
earlier this week. 

357
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,943
The one thing, and Klein will 
probably bring this up in a 

358
00:17:23,943 --> 00:17:26,871
moment, now, although the heel 
counter here, like it's not it's

359
00:17:26,871 --> 00:17:30,435
a flexible one, but it's the way
it's reinforced on the inside, 

360
00:17:30,435 --> 00:17:34,386
it kind of pushes forward. 
And I can feel it on the back of

361
00:17:34,386 --> 00:17:36,846
my Achilles there. 
Thankfully, I did not have any 

362
00:17:36,846 --> 00:17:38,957
issues. 
It was one of those things I 

363
00:17:38,957 --> 00:17:41,460
noted and then I ran. 
I went on the track. 

364
00:17:41,460 --> 00:17:42,960
I was okay. 
He had pain. 

365
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,404
So it's one of those things. 
If you had like a Haglund's or 

366
00:17:46,404 --> 00:17:49,176
you have any kind of sensitivity
to the Achilles from pressure 

367
00:17:49,176 --> 00:17:52,596
itself from the shoe, this 
probably won't be the shoe for 

368
00:17:52,596 --> 00:17:53,243
you. 
Yep. 

369
00:17:53,243 --> 00:17:55,504
But that aside, the foam is 
lively. 

370
00:17:55,504 --> 00:17:58,270
It is a responsive shoe. 
I think it actually is 

371
00:17:58,270 --> 00:18:00,800
competitive with a lot of the 
other shoes in that category. 

372
00:18:00,799 --> 00:18:04,375
And it's gonna retail at 200, 
which is pretty high. 

373
00:18:04,375 --> 00:18:06,160
But it's high. 
It's high. 

374
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:10,886
But I actually I felt like I was
running just as fast at a 

375
00:18:10,886 --> 00:18:14,751
comfortable clip, you know, as I
would in those other shoes, and 

376
00:18:14,751 --> 00:18:17,520
it felt like something that is a
newer generation shoe. 

377
00:18:17,519 --> 00:18:20,240
So for what it's worth, I feel 
like they did take that step. 

378
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,694
It's in the like mid to high 
seven ounces and men's size 9, 

379
00:18:23,694 --> 00:18:24,489
weight wise. 
Okay. 

380
00:18:24,489 --> 00:18:26,079
It's a it's a lightweight 
trainer. 

381
00:18:26,079 --> 00:18:29,248
You know, it's just a newer 
generation responsive training 

382
00:18:29,248 --> 00:18:31,359
shoe. 
And then the last one, just kind

383
00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,229
of a shadow, just because it was
seeded, and we did put a video 

384
00:18:34,229 --> 00:18:36,620
review up. 
It's the Suunto Race 3S. 

385
00:18:36,620 --> 00:18:40,184
So very it's a trail-specific 
watch for ultra endurance 

386
00:18:40,184 --> 00:18:43,648
running and stuff like that. 
And it's meant to have increased

387
00:18:43,648 --> 00:18:45,630
durability and stuff, and we 
tested that today. 

388
00:18:45,630 --> 00:18:48,470
It took a nice chunk of dirt. 
And it's fine. 

389
00:18:48,470 --> 00:18:52,537
So for what it's worth, it took 
its first fall, unfortunately, 

390
00:18:52,537 --> 00:18:55,120
not too long after getting it. 
Yeah. 

391
00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:58,775
But yeah. 
With the Rabbit speed, is it 

392
00:18:58,775 --> 00:19:01,055
Speed Tempo Chaser, Speed 
Chaser? 

393
00:19:01,055 --> 00:19:02,879
Pace Chaser. 
Pace Chaser. 

394
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:07,200
Oh, I was 0 for 2. 
You know who wasn't 0 for 2, the

395
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,720
Brewers, because they swept the 
Dodgers and they're in the World

396
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:11,360
Series. 
Yes. 

397
00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:15,550
But moving forward from that, it
sounds like what's keeping 

398
00:19:15,550 --> 00:19:21,056
what's what's matching is the 
foam, what has left to be 

399
00:19:21,056 --> 00:19:26,208
desired is maybe... 
Well, the forefoot and midfoot's

400
00:19:26,208 --> 00:19:30,716
not too bad. 
It's just that heel. 

401
00:19:30,716 --> 00:19:33,519
Yeah. 
Forefoot and midfoot are fine. 

402
00:19:33,519 --> 00:19:37,160
It's just I don't know what the 
decision making was to make that

403
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,680
that thick in the rearfoot and 
then that design. 

404
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,835
And I I think I actually like I 
put it on and it caused me 

405
00:19:43,835 --> 00:19:46,320
immediate pain and irritation 
and I was so disappointed. 

406
00:19:46,319 --> 00:19:49,667
But when I was walking around in
it as I was trying to get over 

407
00:19:49,667 --> 00:19:52,336
that, midsole feels great. 
So I actually might have to go 

408
00:19:52,336 --> 00:19:55,119
cut the heel in half just so I 
can run it. 

409
00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:57,638
I might have to take a bus on 
and go like I'm gonna get miles 

410
00:19:57,638 --> 00:20:00,934
on this, we'll see what happens.
And I have actually run at pace 

411
00:20:00,934 --> 00:20:04,599
in both the Endorphin Speed, 
which I feel like is kind of the

412
00:20:04,599 --> 00:20:07,359
classic flagship of that 
category, and this. 

413
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:11,767
And I think I might prefer the 
foam and plate geometry of this 

414
00:20:11,767 --> 00:20:15,381
over the Endorphin Speed. 
I could see that it does line up

415
00:20:15,381 --> 00:20:17,919
with that category, I think, 
from a performance standpoint. 

416
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,487
It's just the fit of that heel. 
Thankfully, I didn't have any 

417
00:20:21,487 --> 00:20:23,566
irritation, so it probably would
be okay. 

418
00:20:23,566 --> 00:20:24,160
Right. 
Yeah. 

419
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,500
So we'll see. 
You know, I gotta get more miles

420
00:20:26,500 --> 00:20:28,369
on it. 
Let's just hope my ankle's not 

421
00:20:28,369 --> 00:20:30,000
broken and I can do that. 
Yeah. 

422
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,360
Please. 
Did you do Ottawa ankle rules on

423
00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:34,720
your ankle? 
No, I just kinda kick back. 

424
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,372
You know, I have open enrollment
right now, so the whole like 

425
00:20:37,372 --> 00:20:39,359
morning I've been like looking 
at plans and stuff. 

426
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:42,639
So I I literally just propped my
foot up and locked in. 

427
00:20:44,079 --> 00:20:47,831
I I haven't like actually done 
anything PT oriented towards it 

428
00:20:47,831 --> 00:20:51,655
except for just hobble around 
and be like, you know, that 

429
00:20:51,655 --> 00:20:54,210
lateral... 
Okay, so let's walk let's walk 

430
00:20:54,210 --> 00:20:59,028
through this live on the pod. 
David, were you able to weight 

431
00:20:59,028 --> 00:21:01,654
bear immediately after that you 
fell? 

432
00:21:01,654 --> 00:21:08,120
It's a fine weight bear. 
Were you able to take take more 

433
00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:11,240
than four steps without 
completely collapsing? 

434
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:12,280
Immediately? 
Yeah. 

435
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:13,840
No. 
Oh, okay. 

436
00:21:13,839 --> 00:21:17,388
How long did it take to be able 
to weight bear on that ankle? 

437
00:21:17,388 --> 00:21:18,400
Not long. 
Okay, great. 

438
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:23,185
Any any sensitivity on if you 
put pressure into the medial 

439
00:21:23,185 --> 00:21:26,468
malleolus, lateral malleolus, 
navicular, or the base of the 

440
00:21:26,468 --> 00:21:28,684
fifth met? 
Base of the fifth met's totally 

441
00:21:28,684 --> 00:21:30,480
fine. 
Medial mal's totally fine, 

442
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,519
lateral mal is sensitive. 
My wife was joking. 

443
00:21:33,519 --> 00:21:35,619
She was like, Oh, you might have
to sleep like face up. 

444
00:21:35,619 --> 00:21:37,359
And I was like, No, no, it 
should be fine. 

445
00:21:37,360 --> 00:21:39,385
I don't think I have any 
pressure actually putting 

446
00:21:39,385 --> 00:21:41,632
pressure on it. 
And then I rested my ankle on 

447
00:21:41,632 --> 00:21:44,570
the mattress. 
And I was like, oh, maybe I do. 

448
00:21:44,570 --> 00:21:47,058
Actually, you know, those 
mattresses, those mattresses are

449
00:21:47,058 --> 00:21:47,680
brutal. 
Yeah. 

450
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:57,194
So if you push on your distal 
fibula, if you just push on the 

451
00:21:57,194 --> 00:21:59,789
lateral malleolus right now, 
does that hurt? 

452
00:21:59,789 --> 00:22:03,457
Yes. 
But I mean it's not like it's 

453
00:22:03,457 --> 00:22:05,049
not sharp. 
Obviously, I'm holding a 

454
00:22:05,049 --> 00:22:08,151
conversation with you and I'm 
grimacing a little bit, but like

455
00:22:08,151 --> 00:22:12,693
it's not so bad that like I'm 
like oh you know and I can stand

456
00:22:12,693 --> 00:22:17,633
on one leg okay like I can put 
weight on my foot okay but I 

457
00:22:17,633 --> 00:22:22,970
can't like push off the forefoot
right now very well, but I can 

458
00:22:22,970 --> 00:22:25,840
balance on one foot like 
relatively okay. 

459
00:22:25,839 --> 00:22:28,690
Just to bring it up to take a 
shower and I I wasn't worried 

460
00:22:28,690 --> 00:22:30,720
about falling over or slipping, 
you know what I mean? 

461
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:31,932
Alright. 
Back on topic. 

462
00:22:31,932 --> 00:22:34,356
Sorry, no. 
Just to slowly bring people up 

463
00:22:34,356 --> 00:22:36,538
to speed. 
The Ottawa ankle rules is a 

464
00:22:36,538 --> 00:22:40,218
group of tests to figure out if 
you can rule out the need for 

465
00:22:40,218 --> 00:22:42,082
radiographs. 
And so just because this group 

466
00:22:42,082 --> 00:22:45,013
of things would be positive, it 
doesn't mean David fractured his

467
00:22:45,013 --> 00:22:48,506
ankle. 
It means that we can't rule out 

468
00:22:48,506 --> 00:22:52,655
that he has, so keep an eye on 
it. 

469
00:22:52,655 --> 00:22:54,960
Correct. 
That's what I'm saying. 

470
00:22:58,319 --> 00:23:00,300
Around anyway, so I figure give 
it a day. 

471
00:23:00,300 --> 00:23:02,500
I go to work tomorrow, see how 
bad it is. 

472
00:23:02,500 --> 00:23:04,480
See how you do. 
Yeah, see how I do. 

473
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,436
And then if it's not then 
thankfully I work with a bunch 

474
00:23:07,436 --> 00:23:10,634
of ortho docs, so I can do an 
X-ray machine at the clinic? 

475
00:23:10,634 --> 00:23:11,320
Yep. 
Oh, great. 

476
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:12,420
There you go. 
Yeah, yeah. 

477
00:23:12,420 --> 00:23:15,279
So if I if I really need to, I 
can just go downstairs. 

478
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,130
Stick your foot in there in the 
like between patients. 

479
00:23:18,130 --> 00:23:19,898
Be like, ah just take a photo, 
please. 

480
00:23:19,898 --> 00:23:22,053
I was joking. 
I was like, I'm gonna, like, 

481
00:23:22,053 --> 00:23:24,536
just start challenging all my 
patients to races across the 

482
00:23:24,536 --> 00:23:28,457
clinic, like who can get across 
the floor the fastest. 

483
00:23:28,457 --> 00:23:31,628
Seems smart. 
Both of us go down. 

484
00:23:31,628 --> 00:23:34,346
That's not a great idea. 
Nope. 

485
00:23:34,346 --> 00:23:36,725
Awesome. 
Well that's what we got in for 

486
00:23:36,725 --> 00:23:39,200
testing as always. 
That is fueled by Skratch Labs. 

487
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,542
Skratch Labs has everything you 
need for in run nutrition 

488
00:23:42,542 --> 00:23:44,880
hydration as well as post run 
recovery. 

489
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,895
You can go to skratchlabs.com 
and use the code 

490
00:23:47,895 --> 00:23:50,240
DOCTORSOFRUNNING for 20% off 
your next order. 

491
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,039
Side note, I did use the cherry 
vanilla again. 

492
00:23:53,039 --> 00:23:58,260
I do not it doesn't work for me.
So I know, David, you said it 

493
00:23:58,260 --> 00:24:01,440
was fine, but it's just it's not
it just tastes like sweet. 

494
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,500
It doesn't taste like a flavor, 
which makes sense. 

495
00:24:04,500 --> 00:24:06,880
Cherry and vanilla are pretty 
sweet things. 

496
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,707
Let's move forward though. 
So we are going into the main 

497
00:24:09,707 --> 00:24:11,760
segment today. 
We get to do a mailbag. 

498
00:24:11,759 --> 00:24:14,598
We are jumping into all of your 
questions. 

499
00:24:14,598 --> 00:24:18,846
And so what we're gonna do is 
work our way through the 

500
00:24:18,846 --> 00:24:20,400
questions. 
Sometimes they ask specific 

501
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,799
questions about injuries. 
We're not giving medical advice.

502
00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:25,643
We're just using these as 
platforms to talk about 

503
00:24:25,643 --> 00:24:27,854
different topics. 
So remember, we're not giving 

504
00:24:27,854 --> 00:24:32,697
medical advice here. 
Our first question is from Pun 

505
00:24:32,697 --> 00:24:35,800
Guy. 
The Pun Guy is asking this for 

506
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:40,120
walking uphill, what would be 
the ideal shoe for would it be 

507
00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:45,409
one with lower drop to kind of 
offset the negative drop created

508
00:24:45,409 --> 00:24:50,827
from just going uphill or is it 
something different and then he 

509
00:24:50,827 --> 00:24:54,561
has an obligatory pun? 
Y'all have this in the mailbag. 

510
00:24:54,561 --> 00:24:56,799
Thank you and respectfully, Pun 
Guy. 

511
00:24:57,120 --> 00:25:00,679
Alright, so what do y'all think?
What's what's kind of an ideal 

512
00:25:00,679 --> 00:25:02,159
shoe construction for uphill 
walking? 

513
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,170
They're thinking about some of 
the vacations they're going on 

514
00:25:05,170 --> 00:25:08,480
with some walking that may 
require a lot of uphill climbs. 

515
00:25:09,759 --> 00:25:12,360
I will say the things that you 
also think about is if you're 

516
00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:14,560
gonna go up, you're also going 
to go down as well. 

517
00:25:14,559 --> 00:25:17,520
So obviously comfort's gonna be 
one of the biggest things. 

518
00:25:17,519 --> 00:25:20,970
I would say for that, making 
sure that you have a shoe that 

519
00:25:20,970 --> 00:25:24,107
fits appropriately, so length is
going to be really key for both 

520
00:25:24,107 --> 00:25:26,015
up and downhill. 
Just again, making sure you've 

521
00:25:26,015 --> 00:25:28,508
got enough room for the toes, 
making sure things are flexing 

522
00:25:28,508 --> 00:25:32,790
in the right place, so comfort's
gonna be really important in 

523
00:25:32,790 --> 00:25:38,197
relation to the drop for uphill,
if you want to offset that, my 

524
00:25:38,197 --> 00:25:42,057
my suggestion would be probably 
not to have something super 

525
00:25:42,057 --> 00:25:45,744
soft, just because that's gonna 
make we know from some of the 

526
00:25:45,744 --> 00:25:48,424
early evidence that even like 
super shoes, for example, like 

527
00:25:48,424 --> 00:25:52,248
in trails, don't seem to give 
you as much benefit as they do, 

528
00:25:52,248 --> 00:25:55,400
like over flat terrain. 
So I don't think you need a 

529
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,360
super shoe for you know walking 
uphill. 

530
00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:01,045
But if you if that's something 
you're worried about for your 

531
00:26:01,045 --> 00:26:03,539
Achilles tendon and maintaining 
calf, you may want something 

532
00:26:03,539 --> 00:26:05,489
that's a little higher drop. 
And luckily, there's still a 

533
00:26:05,489 --> 00:26:07,894
good number of shoes out there 
that are in the eight to ten 

534
00:26:07,894 --> 00:26:10,039
range. 
There's not as many in the trail

535
00:26:10,039 --> 00:26:11,863
world. 
I know I think Salomon has a few

536
00:26:11,863 --> 00:26:14,367
of them out there, or you could 
just be like me and take 

537
00:26:14,367 --> 00:26:16,159
whatever's comfortable and stick
a heel lift in there. 

538
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:20,034
What you have to be careful with
though is that you do more 

539
00:26:20,034 --> 00:26:23,289
tissue damage with the downhill.
So recognizing do you have, you 

540
00:26:23,289 --> 00:26:26,532
know, going uphill is going to 
be Achilles, calf, and hip 

541
00:26:26,532 --> 00:26:27,996
that's really pushing you 
upwards. 

542
00:26:27,996 --> 00:26:31,207
Typically, going down is going 
to be a lot more eccentric 

543
00:26:31,207 --> 00:26:33,830
control from quads. 
So don't just think about 

544
00:26:33,830 --> 00:26:35,580
uphill. 
Yeah, and tib anterior. 

545
00:26:35,580 --> 00:26:37,680
So don't think about just 
uphill. 

546
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,748
Also, think about going down and
going, Hey, do I have kind of 

547
00:26:40,748 --> 00:26:42,399
the balance of like the sweet 
spot? 

548
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,120
Something probably not too low 
or too high, finding something 

549
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:46,480
that you've just found 
comfortable. 

550
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,252
And please, please, please, 
please, please go test this 

551
00:26:49,252 --> 00:26:52,676
before you go there. 
So I'd be a fan of like a little

552
00:26:52,676 --> 00:26:55,840
bit higher, like in the eight to
ten range or whatever you need. 

553
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,455
Or the other option is if you're
really concerned about that, do 

554
00:26:59,455 --> 00:27:02,047
something that you're super 
comfortable in, add a heel lift 

555
00:27:02,047 --> 00:27:04,651
if it's really bothering you on 
the way uphill, or just find 

556
00:27:04,651 --> 00:27:08,496
something kind of in the middle 
that works best for uphill and 

557
00:27:08,496 --> 00:27:11,100
downhill. 
But it just depends on your 

558
00:27:11,100 --> 00:27:14,346
lower extremity range of motion.
Like if you have super stiff 

559
00:27:14,346 --> 00:27:16,879
calves, that it may a higher 
drop shoe may be better. 

560
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,830
But if you have good mobility 
and you're fine, whatever's 

561
00:27:20,830 --> 00:27:23,200
comfortable. 
Yeah, I agree with Klein. 

562
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:24,879
There's not too much more I can 
add there. 

563
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:29,110
I feel like a lot of it too 
comes down to how you feel in 

564
00:27:29,110 --> 00:27:31,397
certain shoes, especially with 
like forefoot flexibility as 

565
00:27:31,397 --> 00:27:34,080
well, because some people go on 
up steep hills. 

566
00:27:34,079 --> 00:27:36,412
Like some people like to have 
some flexibility where they can 

567
00:27:36,412 --> 00:27:39,147
really dig in those toes a 
little bit, but other people are

568
00:27:39,147 --> 00:27:40,799
really sensitive to having that 
extension. 

569
00:27:40,799 --> 00:27:43,680
So if that is the case, you 
might want something with a 

570
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:45,120
little bit of a stiffer 
forefoot. 

571
00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:48,968
And then all of the same things 
applying as far as like how 

572
00:27:48,968 --> 00:27:52,295
comfortable are you on flats, 
ups, downs, does the rocker and 

573
00:27:52,295 --> 00:27:54,799
or lack of rocker agree with 
your mechanics? 

574
00:27:54,799 --> 00:27:58,783
There's nothing inherently wrong
with either design, just 

575
00:27:58,783 --> 00:28:03,262
considerations as far as what 
you agree with most. 

576
00:28:03,262 --> 00:28:05,880
Perfect. 
All right, our next question is 

577
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,208
from Mark. 
Best lightweight running shoes 

578
00:28:08,208 --> 00:28:12,096
for sesamoiditis and with very 
tight arches, meaning they 

579
00:28:12,096 --> 00:28:14,319
they're feeling tightness in 
their arch. 

580
00:28:14,319 --> 00:28:18,304
I also get bad foot cramps that 
extend into the Achilles with 

581
00:28:18,304 --> 00:28:20,960
plantarflexion or pointing the 
toes, not with running. 

582
00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:25,468
So I think first, David, can you
talk a little bit about what 

583
00:28:25,468 --> 00:28:28,933
sesamoiditis is, just so that 
everybody's on the same page? 

584
00:28:28,933 --> 00:28:33,649
Yeah, so on your foot on the 
plantar side, you could just 

585
00:28:33,649 --> 00:28:36,400
regard that. 
The cup of my hand. 

586
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,624
And then on the plantar side, we
have these two little bones that

587
00:28:39,624 --> 00:28:42,159
kind of help increase the lever 
arm on some of the tendons. 

588
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,510
And so the sesamoids there can 
get irritation sometimes when 

589
00:28:45,510 --> 00:28:48,205
you are doing repetitive 
activities where you're bouncing

590
00:28:48,205 --> 00:28:51,635
off of your forefoot constantly.
And some people just have 

591
00:28:51,635 --> 00:28:54,264
sensitivity there. 
So it's really on the distal end

592
00:28:54,264 --> 00:28:55,649
of those metatarsals there. 
Yeah. 

593
00:28:55,649 --> 00:28:58,597
Is that good? 
Yeah, and they're primarily on 

594
00:28:58,597 --> 00:29:02,640
the base of the big toe are 
gonna be like the main ones. 

595
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:07,301
And you can think of sesamoids 
like your patella, your kneecap 

596
00:29:07,301 --> 00:29:11,165
is like a wiggly bone that's not
really attached to anything. 

597
00:29:11,165 --> 00:29:13,279
That's what the sesamoids are 
down there too. 

598
00:29:13,279 --> 00:29:16,366
But yeah, they get swollen 
sometimes, they get inflamed, 

599
00:29:16,366 --> 00:29:18,080
they get irritated. 
Yeah, Matt. 

600
00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:20,725
They're also known, the 
sesamoids, these are 

601
00:29:20,725 --> 00:29:22,925
colloquially known as floating 
bones, which is really 

602
00:29:22,925 --> 00:29:23,839
interesting. 
It's very unique. 

603
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,752
Like these and the patella, some
of the kind of the rare bones 

604
00:29:26,752 --> 00:29:29,400
that have this, they are very 
important anchor points for a 

605
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,692
lot of different muscles. 
So, like patella, super 

606
00:29:31,692 --> 00:29:34,712
important anchor point for the 
quad quad tendon, sesamoids, a 

607
00:29:34,712 --> 00:29:39,627
lot of your some of your like 
major toe flexors anchor there. 

608
00:29:39,627 --> 00:29:44,257
So they are very important to 
remain not irritable and 

609
00:29:44,257 --> 00:29:45,704
functional. 
So exactly. 

610
00:29:45,704 --> 00:29:52,093
I think for this question, my 
brain goes to how can you, if 

611
00:29:52,093 --> 00:29:55,665
you're having recurrent 
irritation to this region, how 

612
00:29:55,665 --> 00:29:58,480
can you have a shoe that 
distributes load away? 

613
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,652
So the biggest things that are 
going to help you with this are 

614
00:30:01,652 --> 00:30:04,560
going to be a rocker that's 
positioned correctly, probably a

615
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,960
slightly earlier stage rocker, 
one that is closer to your heel 

616
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,319
than the sesamoid bones, so that
kind of like big toe joint. 

617
00:30:12,319 --> 00:30:14,879
That's one thing that you're 
gonna want to look for. 

618
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,136
And it it probably would need to
be relatively stiff, not 

619
00:30:18,136 --> 00:30:20,800
something that's going to be 
super flexible and bendy. 

620
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,240
And then the second thing that I
think would be kind of important

621
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,945
is something that gives enough 
space in the forefoot so that 

622
00:30:26,945 --> 00:30:29,724
it's not compressing the sides 
of your foot, which could lead 

623
00:30:29,724 --> 00:30:32,160
to compression on the bottom of 
the foot as well. 

624
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,536
So if I were to just say the 
category of shoe, it's going to 

625
00:30:36,536 --> 00:30:39,428
be something with a rocker 
that's stiffer, doesn't have toe

626
00:30:39,428 --> 00:30:42,020
spring, and that that rocker 
starts a little bit earlier with

627
00:30:42,020 --> 00:30:44,430
a roomy toe box. 
Matt, what shoe did you just 

628
00:30:44,430 --> 00:30:47,119
hold up that you think kind of 
fits the bill there? 

629
00:30:47,759 --> 00:30:51,039
I mean, David and I just held up
the Mount to Coast C1 as a great

630
00:30:51,039 --> 00:30:53,955
example of a shoe that does not 
have, and the reason why we say 

631
00:30:53,955 --> 00:30:56,529
you want a good forefoot rocker,
so you want the forefoot rocker 

632
00:30:56,529 --> 00:30:59,280
curved in the right place. 
If it's too late, that will 

633
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,520
actually increase stiffness. 
So just because it's there 

634
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,964
doesn't mean it's right. 
Probably a little earlier one 

635
00:31:03,964 --> 00:31:05,359
because that'll help you roll 
forward. 

636
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,924
And we know that that kind of 
rocker reduces stress on the 

637
00:31:07,924 --> 00:31:09,841
forefoot. 
It does move it up to the knee 

638
00:31:09,841 --> 00:31:11,704
and the hip. 
But this does and the other 

639
00:31:11,704 --> 00:31:14,559
thing we want to make sure is 
there's not a lot of toe spring.

640
00:31:14,559 --> 00:31:17,840
So that's how much the toes are 
actually held in extension. 

641
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,090
Some shoes do great and kind of 
keep them in a neutral position 

642
00:31:21,090 --> 00:31:23,280
while the forefoot rocker kind 
of comes up to it. 

643
00:31:23,279 --> 00:31:26,248
Other ones, it follows the 
forefoot rocker, and you have 

644
00:31:26,248 --> 00:31:29,047
these toes and extension, which 
puts tension on some of the 

645
00:31:29,047 --> 00:31:30,321
flexors, puts tension on the 
plantar fascia. 

646
00:31:30,321 --> 00:31:32,320
That can be good or bad 
depending on who you are. 

647
00:31:32,319 --> 00:31:35,379
In this case, that will increase
tension on this area and people 

648
00:31:35,379 --> 00:31:38,164
may not like it. 
That's why I think the Mount to 

649
00:31:38,164 --> 00:31:41,188
Coast C1 is a great option, just
because it's got just enough 

650
00:31:41,188 --> 00:31:42,765
room. 
It's got a gradual forefoot 

651
00:31:42,765 --> 00:31:44,879
rocker. 
There's not a lot of toe spring.

652
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,920
It's not super mushy, so you're 
not sinking in, which is nice. 

653
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,344
The other piece that I would 
also suggest is, and Nathan, you

654
00:31:50,344 --> 00:31:52,640
hit this on the head, kind of 
like the taller stack, stiffer, 

655
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,520
little bit wider shoe. 
A lot of those shoes tend to be 

656
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,680
in like kind of that mid heel 
drop range. 

657
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,800
If you go really high drop, that
puts you in more plantarflexion 

658
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,879
so there is more pressure on the
forefoot. 

659
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,402
And ironically, if you go super 
low drop, it increases some of 

660
00:32:06,402 --> 00:32:08,898
the plantarflexion forces so 
there's more stress to there. 

661
00:32:08,898 --> 00:32:11,599
So kind of like that mid-range, 
whatever that means for you. 

662
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,751
So like six-ish, which is 
exactly where the Mount to Coast

663
00:32:14,751 --> 00:32:17,039
sits, is I think a really good 
option. 

664
00:32:17,039 --> 00:32:19,643
David, do you have anything to 
add on that? 

665
00:32:19,643 --> 00:32:22,340
Yeah, I agree completely. 
I think having a lower amount of

666
00:32:22,340 --> 00:32:24,980
toe spring but then an earlier 
stage rocker so that you can 

667
00:32:24,980 --> 00:32:28,255
actually pivot over it without 
pushing your toes into 

668
00:32:28,255 --> 00:32:30,160
hyperextension and lengthening 
that tendon. 

669
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,615
Anything you can do to maximize 
that impact will be huge. 

670
00:32:34,615 --> 00:32:37,040
And then he also said 
lightweight. 

671
00:32:37,039 --> 00:32:39,715
That was also part of this. 
But the Mount to Coast is pretty

672
00:32:39,715 --> 00:32:41,481
lightweight. 
That one's like nine and a half 

673
00:32:41,481 --> 00:32:43,039
ounces roughly, you know, give 
or take. 

674
00:32:43,039 --> 00:32:47,408
Do you have any other things 
that you can think of in the 

675
00:32:47,408 --> 00:32:51,008
lightweight category? 
Like let's just say about that 

676
00:32:51,008 --> 00:32:54,911
or below? 
I mean that's the one that 

677
00:32:54,911 --> 00:32:58,320
sticks to my mind immediately 
just here. 

678
00:32:58,319 --> 00:33:01,472
Yeah, go for it. 
Well I think of like the Ghost 

679
00:33:01,472 --> 00:33:05,646
Max as an example of a shoe that
could help, but then that is not

680
00:33:05,646 --> 00:33:08,508
lightweight, you know. 
So then that's where that yeah 

681
00:33:08,508 --> 00:33:11,881
that kind of gets crossed off in
terms of that. 

682
00:33:11,881 --> 00:33:14,240
But a shoe with the similar 
platform. 

683
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,032
How do you feel about like the 
Cloudrunner? 

684
00:33:16,032 --> 00:33:17,600
No, that's too heavy. 
That's the thing. 

685
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,943
What's our list so far? 
What do we all got on the list 

686
00:33:21,943 --> 00:33:23,035
so far? 
The C1? 

687
00:33:23,035 --> 00:33:25,215
C1. 
C1's what we got as far as 

688
00:33:25,215 --> 00:33:28,352
lightweight goes. 
So did y'all talk, you know, 

689
00:33:28,352 --> 00:33:33,049
thinking about the Cloud Monster
Hyper 3, not the one with the 

690
00:33:33,049 --> 00:33:35,360
LightSpray. 
I know that makes it lighter. 

691
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,600
Maybe Sonicblast could be in 
that category. 

692
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,256
The new one, not the old one. 
Not the old one. 

693
00:33:41,256 --> 00:33:43,731
The new one. 
Definitely the new one. 

694
00:33:43,731 --> 00:33:47,614
The old one you can't get on the
forefoot at all. 

695
00:33:47,614 --> 00:33:48,320
Nope. 
Okay. 

696
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,634
Cloud Monster Hyper, is that too
heavy? 

697
00:33:51,634 --> 00:33:55,679
I don't think that's too heavy. 
I think it's on it's on the 

698
00:33:55,679 --> 00:33:56,981
lighter side, definitely for a 
trainer. 

699
00:33:56,981 --> 00:33:59,360
So I would I think that one fits
the bill then. 

700
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,271
Yeah. 
I think once you start getting 

701
00:34:01,271 --> 00:34:04,816
lighter, I think a lot of the 
shoes and somebody can in the 

702
00:34:04,816 --> 00:34:07,448
comments can let us know if 
we're missing something, but I 

703
00:34:07,448 --> 00:34:10,645
think the challenge that once 
you get lighter, you often get 

704
00:34:10,645 --> 00:34:15,505
more like plated, super stiff, 
and that kind of changes the the

705
00:34:15,505 --> 00:34:18,232
geometry and biomechanics. 
Like if you add a stiffening 

706
00:34:18,232 --> 00:34:20,745
agent in there, that change 
where the changes where the 

707
00:34:20,745 --> 00:34:23,679
rocker needs to be, right? 
Like, so I'm really enjoying the

708
00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:26,199
Reebok Speed Shifter, and 
there's a great forefoot rocker 

709
00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:27,679
here. 
There's just a little again, 

710
00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:30,559
because of the plate, that just 
makes it a little bit stiffer. 

711
00:34:30,559 --> 00:34:33,266
So I'm hesitant to suggest a 
plated shoe because that changes

712
00:34:33,266 --> 00:34:35,453
that stuff. 
I'd be more inclined to go 

713
00:34:35,453 --> 00:34:38,273
rocker stiffer shoe that doesn't
necessarily have a plate, but 

714
00:34:38,273 --> 00:34:41,190
has like kind of normal like 
geometry that feels comfortable,

715
00:34:41,190 --> 00:34:44,588
a little bit wider, not racing. 
You know, once you get lighter, 

716
00:34:44,588 --> 00:34:47,027
a lot of the stuff gets 
narrower, more compressive, 

717
00:34:47,027 --> 00:34:49,199
stiffer, because it's meant 
for... 

718
00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:56,400
What do you think of the Vanish 
Tempo from Altra? 

719
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:02,159
Volume's too low. 
Yeah, volume is too low. 

720
00:35:02,159 --> 00:35:05,135
My other hesitation is that does
have a good even though there's 

721
00:35:05,135 --> 00:35:08,241
a Pebax plate, it does have a 
decent amount of flex. 

722
00:35:08,241 --> 00:35:12,347
It's something I like, but I 
don't think would be appropriate

723
00:35:12,347 --> 00:35:14,694
here. 
And Matt, I'm hearing you kind 

724
00:35:14,694 --> 00:35:18,632
of talk about this paradox where
it's like you want you want 

725
00:35:18,632 --> 00:35:22,208
something non-super flexible, 
but you don't want something so 

726
00:35:22,208 --> 00:35:24,784
extremely rigid. 
It's like this this kind of 

727
00:35:24,784 --> 00:35:28,128
Goldilocks spot between the two 
where Vanish Tempo is a little 

728
00:35:28,128 --> 00:35:31,559
bit too flexible, but the super 
shoe like rigid carbon plate may

729
00:35:31,559 --> 00:35:34,639
be too stiff and you want this 
kind of middle ground. 

730
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,243
Yeah, it really depends. 
Like I I think oftentimes people

731
00:35:37,243 --> 00:35:39,373
get stuck in dichotomies like, 
oh, a forefoot rocker and then 

732
00:35:39,373 --> 00:35:42,799
you have to realize wait, that's
one piece of the equation. 

733
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:47,120
Because all the pieces have to 
interact, and a plate is a 

734
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,688
stiffening agent. 
And so if you increase stiffness

735
00:35:49,688 --> 00:35:52,768
there, in some people that 
changes where that rocker needs 

736
00:35:52,768 --> 00:35:55,920
to be to actually accomplish 
what you're hoping for. 

737
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,936
And so if you're not hitting the
right speed, you know, or like 

738
00:35:58,936 --> 00:36:01,411
it just doesn't match with your 
biomechanics, it's gonna put 

739
00:36:01,411 --> 00:36:04,819
more pressure into the forefoot.
So that's why I'm hesitant to be

740
00:36:04,819 --> 00:36:06,239
like, oh, definitely plated 
shoe. 

741
00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:09,708
I'm like, if we're not worried 
about like a racing shoe, I'm 

742
00:36:09,708 --> 00:36:12,440
thinking more training type 
stuff that's going to offload 

743
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,348
this. 
The final shoe that I think 

744
00:36:14,348 --> 00:36:16,669
would work, just because I've 
had positive experiences as 

745
00:36:16,669 --> 00:36:20,205
someone who had I had the 
plantar plate tear, you know, 

746
00:36:20,205 --> 00:36:22,275
and then with that came 
sesamoiditis. 

747
00:36:22,275 --> 00:36:25,854
So I've dealt with this. 
One of the shoes that worked 

748
00:36:25,854 --> 00:36:28,320
really well for me was the 
Endorphin Speed. 

749
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:32,163
And the positioning of the 
rocker and... 

750
00:36:32,163 --> 00:36:38,968
So those did the trick for me. 
And doesn't mean it will be the 

751
00:36:38,968 --> 00:36:44,480
perfect, but it it has a rocker.
Stiffness and it could work out.

752
00:36:44,559 --> 00:36:47,939
I will also say on a last note, 
the last part about getting 

753
00:36:47,939 --> 00:36:50,052
cramps that extend into the 
Achilles with plantarflexion, 

754
00:36:50,052 --> 00:36:53,555
that's also my hesitation going,
I don't want a shoe that's too 

755
00:36:53,555 --> 00:36:55,866
stiff or too flexible. 
Because something's clearly 

756
00:36:55,866 --> 00:36:59,298
getting irritated when you're 
going into like going into 

757
00:36:59,298 --> 00:37:03,561
plantarflexion. 
So it's gotta be just right. 

758
00:37:03,561 --> 00:37:06,148
Yeah. 
Hopefully they're like...Yeah. 

759
00:37:06,148 --> 00:37:07,440
Yeah. 
Right. 

760
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,740
Hopefully they're chatting with 
somebody. 

761
00:37:11,740 --> 00:37:17,760
Alright, we have a question from
Dave. 

762
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,379
And I'm going to give a 
disclaimer that one of you is 

763
00:37:20,379 --> 00:37:23,105
going to have to explain this 
question to me because I don't 

764
00:37:23,105 --> 00:37:26,108
think I understand the context. 
So please make sure I understand

765
00:37:26,108 --> 00:37:28,559
it because I'm maybe I'm not the
only one. 

766
00:37:28,559 --> 00:37:32,960
If I am, sorry everyone that I'm
making them explain it. 

767
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,960
So I'll read this question. 
Oh, that's a good point. 

768
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,017
We got David. 
Okay. 

769
00:37:39,017 --> 00:37:42,284
Here's the question. 
What are your thoughts about 

770
00:37:42,284 --> 00:37:45,044
sponsor exemptions into the 
major marathons which have 

771
00:37:45,044 --> 00:37:48,959
become insanely hard to get into
and things like Boston where you

772
00:37:48,959 --> 00:37:51,939
obviously have to qualify for. 
Also, what are your thoughts 

773
00:37:51,939 --> 00:37:55,251
about all of the cheating and 
false times that are being done 

774
00:37:55,251 --> 00:37:58,401
in these marathons, especially 
by these quote influencers that 

775
00:37:58,401 --> 00:38:00,719
are getting free tickets in? 
Thanks. 

776
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:03,680
Hope to hear from your response 
and your thoughts. 

777
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:09,475
The first thing I the only thing
I knew is that David got to run 

778
00:38:09,475 --> 00:38:12,899
Boston for free. 
As a Davidson has done that. 

779
00:38:12,899 --> 00:38:22,779
Yes. 
I was what, how I was thirty-ish

780
00:38:22,779 --> 00:38:24,885
minutes under the qualifying 
cutoff time? 

781
00:38:24,885 --> 00:38:31,160
Yes, you qualified for sure. 
But anyways, that aside, it's an

782
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,853
interesting question. 
Now when they say sponsored, I'm

783
00:38:34,853 --> 00:38:38,911
also gonna loop kind of charity 
entries and things like that 

784
00:38:38,911 --> 00:38:42,544
into that, I'm assuming free 
entry with fundraising and I 

785
00:38:42,544 --> 00:38:45,946
think that's fine though, 
because it's like stuff for a 

786
00:38:45,946 --> 00:38:49,235
cause and it gets a lot of good 
publicity out for things and 

787
00:38:49,235 --> 00:38:51,759
it's a very empowering thing for
a lot of people. 

788
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:56,683
And it's not like those entries 
are counted necessarily for 

789
00:38:56,683 --> 00:38:59,761
their like cutoff. 
It's not like that bleeds into 

790
00:38:59,761 --> 00:39:02,557
the cutoff people. 
Like that's kind of in addition 

791
00:39:02,557 --> 00:39:05,884
to and those people usually 
start after everyone else is 

792
00:39:05,884 --> 00:39:09,649
already gone, anyways. 
So in those ways, I'm not as 

793
00:39:09,649 --> 00:39:13,599
opposed to it. 
I don't know, it's a tricky one.

794
00:39:13,599 --> 00:39:16,935
I feel like because if some of 
these majors are already so 

795
00:39:16,935 --> 00:39:20,825
immensely popular, it is kind of
difficult to sell the idea of 

796
00:39:20,825 --> 00:39:25,099
like bringing someone who has 
some kind of social or online 

797
00:39:25,099 --> 00:39:28,954
presence to the race to boost 
the race necessarily for 

798
00:39:28,954 --> 00:39:32,400
popularity when the race is 
already stupid popular, right? 

799
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,278
Like that doesn't feel like that
is really the way to go, but 

800
00:39:36,278 --> 00:39:39,613
they the way a lot of these 
companies are kind of treating 

801
00:39:39,613 --> 00:39:42,651
it, from what I can tell, is 
they almost treat it like a mini

802
00:39:42,651 --> 00:39:46,049
launch event where like they 
have something oriented towards 

803
00:39:46,049 --> 00:39:49,265
the event already. 
And it's like we're kind of 

804
00:39:49,265 --> 00:39:53,048
bringing you here to do this for
this event, and you happen to 

805
00:39:53,048 --> 00:39:55,468
run the race as part of said 
launch event. 

806
00:39:55,468 --> 00:39:58,559
And that was kind of the case 
when I went to Boston. 

807
00:39:58,559 --> 00:40:01,085
It was all centered around the 
Hyperboost Edge. 

808
00:40:01,085 --> 00:40:03,920
You know, and does that mean 
that that's wrong? 

809
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:09,016
Like a year ago, you know, BJ 
and I went to Tokyo with ASICS 

810
00:40:09,016 --> 00:40:12,766
for the Metaspeed launch, and 
that was very much, you know, it

811
00:40:12,766 --> 00:40:16,159
was a shoe launch and event, but
we did run a 5K, right? 

812
00:40:16,159 --> 00:40:20,047
Does that mean we shouldn't have
been allowed entry into the 5K? 

813
00:40:20,047 --> 00:40:22,639
I don't think that necessarily 
matters, you know. 

814
00:40:22,639 --> 00:40:26,159
And it doesn't take away from 
the other people doing it 

815
00:40:26,159 --> 00:40:29,679
because even when I ran Boston, 
I did run behind everyone. 

816
00:40:29,679 --> 00:40:32,200
I was passing people for 
literally about nine miles 

817
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,280
before I had any feet foot like 
footing of my own. 

818
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,756
I started in the back of the 
back of the back. 

819
00:40:38,756 --> 00:40:41,280
So I don't know. 
It's an interesting question. 

820
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,878
I I'm not opposed to it though. 
I think a lot of people have 

821
00:40:44,878 --> 00:40:48,322
really heated takes on that. 
But I think as long as there's 

822
00:40:48,322 --> 00:40:52,331
some kind of a purpose for why 
the person's there, you know, I 

823
00:40:52,331 --> 00:40:55,920
think it's fine versus like just
giving someone a free entry. 

824
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,875
As far as like cutting the 
courses and stuff, that just 

825
00:40:58,875 --> 00:41:00,815
shouldn't happen, right? 
Especially if you're given 

826
00:41:00,815 --> 00:41:04,507
entry, like that's just kind of 
a big slap in the face to 

827
00:41:04,507 --> 00:41:05,990
everyone, like you shouldn't do 
that. 

828
00:41:05,990 --> 00:41:08,719
I I mean I don't really know 
what else to say on that. 

829
00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:11,114
Like it doesn't matter if 
they're influencers or not, 

830
00:41:11,114 --> 00:41:12,440
don't cut the course. 
Right? 

831
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,560
Like that's just that is what it
is. 

832
00:41:14,559 --> 00:41:15,103
Right. 
Sorry. 

833
00:41:15,103 --> 00:41:18,639
I mean, I don't know if I'm 
going on too long about this. 

834
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,108
What I'm hearing you say, David,
is that and and I I could be 

835
00:41:25,108 --> 00:41:28,860
wrong here, but from what I'm 
hearing you say in my take on 

836
00:41:28,860 --> 00:41:32,512
this, now that I'm understanding
the question more, is that it's 

837
00:41:32,512 --> 00:41:35,805
not like Boston is calling 
Doctors of Running and saying, 

838
00:41:35,805 --> 00:41:39,112
Can you come run Boston? 
They're probably selling entries

839
00:41:39,112 --> 00:41:42,874
into their race to other 
companies to do promotional 

840
00:41:42,874 --> 00:41:47,800
events at the Boston Marathon. 
So the Hyperboost Edge, Adidas, 

841
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,820
well, is Adidas a sponsor? 
They are. 

842
00:41:51,820 --> 00:41:54,786
Okay, so they probably have some
agreement where it's like, Hey, 

843
00:41:54,786 --> 00:41:58,535
we get to have this allotment of
entries to give to people that 

844
00:41:58,535 --> 00:42:01,280
we want for whatever purposes 
they they decide for. 

845
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:05,020
And I'm guessing that's more of 
how these influencer entries get

846
00:42:05,020 --> 00:42:09,614
wrapped in is not so much the 
race itself, but they the race 

847
00:42:09,614 --> 00:42:14,210
sells entries to companies who 
want to use them for their own 

848
00:42:14,210 --> 00:42:17,466
marketing purposes and kind of 
doing these activation events 

849
00:42:17,466 --> 00:42:19,920
around it. 
So I yeah, it's interesting. 

850
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,339
I I think like you said, if 
there's ever any cheating or if 

851
00:42:23,339 --> 00:42:25,936
influencers are getting in the 
way of people actually enjoying 

852
00:42:25,936 --> 00:42:27,672
the event, that just should 
never happen. 

853
00:42:27,672 --> 00:42:30,639
And I know you were just taking 
people out left and right. 

854
00:42:30,639 --> 00:42:33,899
You were like, you know, hitting
people with your camera, 

855
00:42:33,899 --> 00:42:37,968
tackling a couple people. 
Actually you know allow any 

856
00:42:37,968 --> 00:42:41,286
coverage on the course. 
Oh, nice. 

857
00:42:41,286 --> 00:42:43,520
Yeah. 
So I mean it's literally just 

858
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,942
kind of an experience. 
So like that's why I had so much

859
00:42:46,942 --> 00:42:50,099
footage of everything before and
after, but I didn't I didn't 

860
00:42:50,099 --> 00:42:51,938
take anything during. 
Oh, nice. 

861
00:42:51,938 --> 00:42:54,872
Cool. 
Matt, did you have thoughts 

862
00:42:54,872 --> 00:42:57,204
quick? 
Yeah, the first part is I think 

863
00:42:57,204 --> 00:42:59,715
I I I understand from the 
company perspective and they're 

864
00:42:59,715 --> 00:43:01,795
paying money for that. 
It's part of their advertising. 

865
00:43:01,795 --> 00:43:04,159
And it's I don't think I I agree
with you, Nathan. 

866
00:43:04,159 --> 00:43:06,559
I don't think it's the marathon 
specifically. 

867
00:43:06,559 --> 00:43:09,431
It's the company that's probably
sponsoring them that goes, hey, 

868
00:43:09,431 --> 00:43:12,616
we're trying to launch this or 
we're using this for advertising

869
00:43:12,616 --> 00:43:14,814
stuff. 
I still think there should be 

870
00:43:14,814 --> 00:43:17,438
some rules. 
I think if there are qualifying 

871
00:43:17,438 --> 00:43:20,431
times, I think whoever, you 
know, whoever influencers do 

872
00:43:20,431 --> 00:43:24,512
need to hit those times, I think
that should be required, they 

873
00:43:24,512 --> 00:43:28,445
should probably be required, you
know, just because to keep it a 

874
00:43:28,445 --> 00:43:31,265
little bit fair. 
But I can see how people would 

875
00:43:31,265 --> 00:43:33,519
not like kind of go back and 
forth. 

876
00:43:33,519 --> 00:43:36,148
But at the end of the day, 
they're they're trying to sell a

877
00:43:36,148 --> 00:43:38,365
product and there's it's 
advertising dollars, but I still

878
00:43:38,365 --> 00:43:41,713
think, yeah, you should have 
some some some standard with 

879
00:43:41,713 --> 00:43:44,051
that. 
Although, you know, hey, to each

880
00:43:44,051 --> 00:43:46,290
their own. 
The cheating thing and the false

881
00:43:46,290 --> 00:43:48,639
times, I think that should be a 
permanent ban. 

882
00:43:48,639 --> 00:43:51,621
I I think races have been too 
nice and letting these people do

883
00:43:51,621 --> 00:43:53,040
this stuff. 
It's the same thing with 

884
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:54,960
influencers, and I think you hit
that in the head. 

885
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,560
If they are getting in the way 
of other people, they should be 

886
00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:59,552
banned. 
There should not even be like a 

887
00:43:59,552 --> 00:44:01,088
second, like, oh, we'll think 
it. 

888
00:44:01,088 --> 00:44:03,519
No, done. 
Like this, it, you, it's a 

889
00:44:03,519 --> 00:44:06,719
privilege to be there, right? 
You are there for work. 

890
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:10,378
Once you start getting in the 
way of the event, you need to be

891
00:44:10,378 --> 00:44:12,114
banned. 
You need to be taken off the 

892
00:44:12,114 --> 00:44:13,424
course immediately and never 
allowed back. 

893
00:44:13,424 --> 00:44:15,216
I think there needs to be 
stricter rules. 

894
00:44:15,216 --> 00:44:18,576
We've been too easy with this. 
And it's the same time with 

895
00:44:18,576 --> 00:44:22,272
cheating in the false times. 
Like, either be honest and go, 

896
00:44:22,272 --> 00:44:24,990
you know what? 
I had to drop out. 

897
00:44:24,990 --> 00:44:28,410
Or don't do the race. 
If you're gonna cheat, that 

898
00:44:28,410 --> 00:44:30,799
looks awful and you're gonna get
caught. 

899
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:35,259
Like, and people are not gonna 
like me for this. 

900
00:44:35,259 --> 00:44:38,431
I love Marathon Investigation. 
I'm that person that's like I, 

901
00:44:38,431 --> 00:44:40,751
you know, I want people to get 
brought to justice. 

902
00:44:40,751 --> 00:44:43,604
I don't like cheaters. 
Like this is it's people work so

903
00:44:43,604 --> 00:44:47,166
freaking hard to get these times
to put in the effort to get 

904
00:44:47,166 --> 00:44:48,544
here. 
And sometimes everything falls 

905
00:44:48,544 --> 00:44:50,475
apart. 
And it's better if you're honest

906
00:44:50,475 --> 00:44:52,400
with people and go, hey, this 
happened. 

907
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,260
Whereas if you're cheating, it 
just it's the bad side of 

908
00:44:55,260 --> 00:44:57,599
influencers that says none of 
this is real, right? 

909
00:44:57,599 --> 00:45:00,943
And a lot of stuff with social 
media is not real. 

910
00:45:00,943 --> 00:45:03,679
And it's just we just need some 
more honesty. 

911
00:45:03,679 --> 00:45:06,560
And I think unfortunately, 
because people, there's so much 

912
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:09,120
money for them wrapped up in 
their image. 

913
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:10,375
Yeah. 
That they're going to lie. 

914
00:45:10,375 --> 00:45:11,679
And I think you should be 
banned. 

915
00:45:11,679 --> 00:45:15,016
And I think there should be 
harder rules about this for 

916
00:45:15,016 --> 00:45:17,440
course cutters, for cheaters. 
We've been too lenient. 

917
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,728
And I think it's because people 
are like, ah, they're okay. 

918
00:45:19,728 --> 00:45:22,113
Like, we need the average... 
No, dude, that sets a really, 

919
00:45:22,113 --> 00:45:24,683
like, ethically and morally, 
that sets a really bad example. 

920
00:45:24,683 --> 00:45:28,050
And if races are letting people 
back in, that just, that should 

921
00:45:28,050 --> 00:45:31,496
make the race look bad. 
And so, yeah, with the cheating 

922
00:45:31,496 --> 00:45:34,000
stuff like that, it's, it's a 
hard no. 

923
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:35,774
And I know there's been some 
consequences. 

924
00:45:35,774 --> 00:45:38,965
Like I I remember Dr. Frank from
in Southern California who was 

925
00:45:38,965 --> 00:45:41,440
caught cheating and ended up 
taking his own life. 

926
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,392
Like, don't get to that point. 
Be honest. 

927
00:45:44,392 --> 00:45:48,816
Our bodies change as we get 
older, we all have bad days. 

928
00:45:48,816 --> 00:45:51,599
That's just reality. 
You're not we're not perfect. 

929
00:45:51,599 --> 00:45:54,199
And if you can show that, I 
think that's gonna make a lot 

930
00:45:54,199 --> 00:45:56,047
more connection than trying to 
pretend that everything's 

931
00:45:56,047 --> 00:45:58,287
perfect. 
Because that really influences 

932
00:45:58,287 --> 00:46:01,308
people negatively to go. 
If they had a bad day, then they

933
00:46:01,308 --> 00:46:03,631
feel worse about it. 
If you're like, I had a bad day,

934
00:46:03,631 --> 00:46:06,187
this is what happens, here's how
I'm gonna get over this and 

935
00:46:06,187 --> 00:46:08,619
how's it move forward. 
That's a much more positive 

936
00:46:08,619 --> 00:46:11,140
message that's gonna teach 
people something rather than 

937
00:46:11,140 --> 00:46:14,088
going, I cheated and now you 
caught me and then I'm gonna 

938
00:46:14,088 --> 00:46:16,619
make a bunch of excuses and try 
to pretend it didn't happen. 

939
00:46:16,619 --> 00:46:17,853
That's dishonest. 
That's lying. 

940
00:46:17,853 --> 00:46:22,319
So Yeah, that's that was way too
like you're kidding man. 

941
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,047
I was gonna say like if you are 
cheating and cutting and doing 

942
00:46:25,047 --> 00:46:27,732
that, like it was never about 
the running or the event to 

943
00:46:27,732 --> 00:46:30,007
begin with. 
It was like you said all about 

944
00:46:30,007 --> 00:46:34,615
the image and stuff like that. 
At that point, I mean it's like 

945
00:46:34,615 --> 00:46:39,035
you clearly don't have enough 
respect for the event to 

946
00:46:39,035 --> 00:46:41,279
actually Yep. 
Even me, right? 

947
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:44,665
Like I had an awful day out 
there and I tapped every 

948
00:46:44,665 --> 00:46:47,099
porta-potty from mile, what, 
fourteen to twenty-six just 

949
00:46:47,099 --> 00:46:50,386
about, but I made it. 
You were honest about it though.

950
00:46:50,386 --> 00:46:52,960
You were honest. 
Yeah, you didn't try to be like,

951
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,768
oh, they're not good. 
Yeah, look at my look at my time

952
00:46:55,768 --> 00:46:57,840
that just I like tried to hide 
the splits. 

953
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:02,359
Like, no, like I split my pants 
too, and here's the honest spots

954
00:47:02,359 --> 00:47:06,623
like I will say though with the 
Boston one, like with the 

955
00:47:06,623 --> 00:47:10,974
qualifying stuff, those who were
qualified at races like did get 

956
00:47:10,974 --> 00:47:14,224
entries into their respective 
heats for the time that they 

957
00:47:14,224 --> 00:47:16,287
ran. 
Everyone else was back of the 

958
00:47:16,287 --> 00:47:18,051
back of the pack. 
You know. 

959
00:47:18,051 --> 00:47:20,600
Got it. 
So they did have kind it was 

960
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,680
kind of a hybrid of like the 
qualify versus the Yeah. 

961
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:24,240
Yes. 
Cool. 

962
00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:25,360
Yeah. 
Mine was expired. 

963
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,159
Not and I wouldn't be in a 225 
group anyways. 

964
00:47:31,679 --> 00:47:34,855
Which is why it has to be within
a window, because then you're 

965
00:47:34,855 --> 00:47:36,319
like within that shape. 
All right. 

966
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,776
Another Dave asks this. 
Hi team, Dave here from 

967
00:47:39,776 --> 00:47:41,676
Australia. 
Love the podcast and always gets

968
00:47:41,676 --> 00:47:43,440
me through my long commute to 
work. 

969
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,408
I'd be interested to know your 
thoughts on incorporating 

970
00:47:46,408 --> 00:47:51,920
walking with weighted vests in a
run program and what type of 

971
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:56,680
shoes would be used together 
with one. 

972
00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:00,220
Crickets. 
Also known, at least in my area,

973
00:48:00,220 --> 00:48:03,119
as rucking, which has been very,
very popular. 

974
00:48:03,119 --> 00:48:06,480
But yeah, David, go for it. 
Yeah, I mean I think it's fine. 

975
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,216
Like if you look at it as like 
aerobic work, it's just it's 

976
00:48:10,216 --> 00:48:12,512
it's just that, right? 
It's lower intensity aerobic 

977
00:48:12,512 --> 00:48:14,096
work. 
You're just adding a little bit 

978
00:48:14,096 --> 00:48:16,352
of weight to yourself. 
I think as far as considerations

979
00:48:16,352 --> 00:48:19,136
for shoes go, kind of like we 
were talking about the hill 

980
00:48:19,136 --> 00:48:21,727
thing earlier, it's really just 
finding something that you're 

981
00:48:21,727 --> 00:48:24,159
comfortable having on your feet,
especially with additional 

982
00:48:24,159 --> 00:48:27,410
weight and walking, depending on
like if you're going into trails

983
00:48:27,410 --> 00:48:29,854
or not. 
Cause some people do take those 

984
00:48:29,854 --> 00:48:32,324
into the mountains for ungodly 
amounts of miles. 

985
00:48:32,324 --> 00:48:34,480
I don't know if you're doing 
that. 

986
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,353
But if you're just kind of like 
out on the street and stuff, 

987
00:48:37,353 --> 00:48:39,119
find something that's 
comfortable for you with load. 

988
00:48:39,119 --> 00:48:42,219
If not, then find something 
that's comfortable for you for 

989
00:48:42,219 --> 00:48:44,079
long outings on the trail. 
Yeah. 

990
00:48:44,079 --> 00:48:46,543
And then all of the same 
considerations for up down if 

991
00:48:46,543 --> 00:48:48,559
you're in the trails that we 
talked about earlier. 

992
00:48:49,679 --> 00:48:52,612
I think my one thing would be 
discourage the use of like 

993
00:48:52,612 --> 00:48:54,320
carbon plated and super shoes 
for this. 

994
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,249
You're walking, so I'd use more 
traditional like traditional 

995
00:48:57,249 --> 00:49:00,112
running shoes, which, again, in 
the United States are bought 

996
00:49:00,112 --> 00:49:02,159
more frequently for walking than
they are for running. 

997
00:49:02,159 --> 00:49:05,164
So get something comfortable 
that feels good, non-super. 

998
00:49:05,164 --> 00:49:08,474
And I think it's fine. 
Just, you know, if you're 

999
00:49:08,474 --> 00:49:11,336
someone that can't handle the 
miles of like running every 

1000
00:49:11,336 --> 00:49:13,920
single day, I think 
cross-training is a great idea. 

1001
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:17,391
And I think that's a great way 
to go, hey, still get outside, 

1002
00:49:17,391 --> 00:49:20,480
still get some like tissue load 
for bone density, but then also 

1003
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,120
like give the musculoskeletal 
system a little bit of a break 

1004
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:25,040
from the impact. 
Because even with weight, like 

1005
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:28,126
that's still not the same look. 
Walking with weight is still not

1006
00:49:28,126 --> 00:49:30,997
remotely close to the weight 
that you put through your body 

1007
00:49:30,997 --> 00:49:33,530
with running. 
So I think that's a great 

1008
00:49:33,530 --> 00:49:35,875
cross-training tool. 
So absolutely, and then don't 

1009
00:49:35,875 --> 00:49:40,105
overthink the shoes. 
Yeah, I think this is not a 

1010
00:49:40,105 --> 00:49:43,456
topic I've thought a lot about. 
And the questions, therefore, 

1011
00:49:43,456 --> 00:49:49,107
that I have in my mind are what 
are the the known or unknown 

1012
00:49:49,107 --> 00:49:52,850
impacts on bone health. 
What are the known and unknown 

1013
00:49:52,850 --> 00:49:56,399
impacts on tendon loading and 
like a tendon loading program? 

1014
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,922
And so I I'm just most curious 
about like what are what are the

1015
00:49:59,922 --> 00:50:02,324
actual impacts of having a 
weighted vest during walking 

1016
00:50:02,324 --> 00:50:04,580
for... 
For people who are in already a 

1017
00:50:04,580 --> 00:50:07,679
high volume training program, if
that's kind of where you're at. 

1018
00:50:07,679 --> 00:50:11,458
And what does it look like to 
like take things out like 

1019
00:50:11,458 --> 00:50:15,361
replacement versus additive? 
And I think those are where my 

1020
00:50:15,361 --> 00:50:17,899
questions come more than 
anything else. 

1021
00:50:17,899 --> 00:50:21,279
I would not add, I would replace
personally. 

1022
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:24,280
Yeah. 
That would be my suggestion. 

1023
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,780
Right. 
So I think it'll be curious. 

1024
00:50:27,780 --> 00:50:31,337
Either usually no. 
But even depends on how some 

1025
00:50:31,337 --> 00:50:38,092
happy. 
I have people who I know who do 

1026
00:50:38,092 --> 00:50:41,039
like forty-five pounds, which is
that's meaningful. 

1027
00:50:41,039 --> 00:50:46,439
Like I had a friend who was 
doing like 90 to 100 pounds. 

1028
00:50:46,439 --> 00:50:49,344
Right. 
It's not the that's what I'm 

1029
00:50:49,344 --> 00:50:50,808
saying. 
Like what's the value? 

1030
00:50:50,808 --> 00:50:52,639
I guess is the question I'm 
asking. 

1031
00:50:52,639 --> 00:50:55,205
Is the value there, or is it 
like better to like lift a 

1032
00:50:55,205 --> 00:50:57,176
little bit? 
What like what is the aerobic 

1033
00:50:57,176 --> 00:50:59,534
impact, what's the tendon 
impact, what's the bone impact, 

1034
00:50:59,534 --> 00:51:01,300
and is the juice worth the 
squeeze? 

1035
00:51:01,300 --> 00:51:04,472
And then there's the fun factor 
in actual life and what you want

1036
00:51:04,472 --> 00:51:06,319
to do. 
That's probably more important. 

1037
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,886
But like I I had had a a friend 
who was rucking to get ready for

1038
00:51:09,886 --> 00:51:13,120
an elk hunt that he was doing. 
He ended up getting an elk, but 

1039
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:16,000
he had to like carry a hundred 
pounds through the through the 

1040
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:20,160
mountains of Montana for like it
was crazy. 

1041
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:23,760
His story's awesome. 
All right, we have one more 

1042
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,000
question for the day from 
another David. 

1043
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,498
Here is our right, it was David,
Dave, David, David. 

1044
00:51:29,498 --> 00:51:32,639
Dave Dave David. 
Anyway, we got one more David. 

1045
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:36,528
They've always worn stability 
shoes, starting to get lateral 

1046
00:51:36,528 --> 00:51:40,400
ankle pain on long runs in the 
Omni ST twenty three. 

1047
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,883
Wondering if this could be 
suggestive that it's too 

1048
00:51:43,883 --> 00:51:47,360
aggressively stable for him. 
Matt, do you have thoughts? 

1049
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:50,776
That that's a real possibility. 
Again, I don't want to say for 

1050
00:51:50,776 --> 00:51:53,504
sure only because there's so 
many variables that go into when

1051
00:51:53,504 --> 00:51:54,870
you start getting symptoms, 
right? 

1052
00:51:54,870 --> 00:51:58,639
The Omni, again, is one of my 
top stability shoes of the year.

1053
00:51:58,639 --> 00:52:02,258
That said, it's got a really 
soft foam plus a more 

1054
00:52:02,258 --> 00:52:04,559
traditional medial post that's 
pretty significant there. 

1055
00:52:04,559 --> 00:52:07,944
So that's a real possibility. 
Is it the thing that's causing 

1056
00:52:07,944 --> 00:52:10,400
your lateral ankle pain? 
I have no idea. 

1057
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,547
I would check how much the shoes
worn if there's any other 

1058
00:52:13,547 --> 00:52:15,119
factors that are influencing 
this stuff. 

1059
00:52:15,119 --> 00:52:18,119
But that is very possible. 
That's why certain people do 

1060
00:52:18,119 --> 00:52:21,119
better with more of the stable 
neutral kind of concept. 

1061
00:52:21,119 --> 00:52:23,946
That's what Puma went through 
with this, where it's kind of 

1062
00:52:23,946 --> 00:52:26,920
more that rim, where it's kind 
of more designed to keep you 

1063
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,450
stable or keep you centered 
rather than pushing you in one 

1064
00:52:29,450 --> 00:52:31,024
direction. 
You just got to figure out what 

1065
00:52:31,024 --> 00:52:33,194
works for you. 
I'm someone that works a lot 

1066
00:52:33,194 --> 00:52:36,109
better with something like the 
Omni because I really need that 

1067
00:52:36,109 --> 00:52:38,823
medial stability, whereas the 
ForeverRun Nitro 3 is it's good,

1068
00:52:38,823 --> 00:52:42,639
it's not as much as I might 
need, but I can make it work. 

1069
00:52:42,639 --> 00:52:45,438
So again, I think if that's 
something you're experiencing 

1070
00:52:45,438 --> 00:52:48,709
and it's not related to anything
else, MSK musculoskeletal, then 

1071
00:52:48,709 --> 00:52:52,800
I go try one of the more stable 
neutral shoes, see what happens.

1072
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,824
If that goes away, great. 
If it's because you're 

1073
00:52:55,824 --> 00:52:58,175
overtraining and there's other 
factors in your life that are 

1074
00:52:58,175 --> 00:53:00,608
influencing this and it's not 
just the shoe, then I would be 

1075
00:53:00,608 --> 00:53:02,719
cautious of throwing the shoe to
be the only thing there. 

1076
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:08,504
Make sure you evaluate the whole
picture before you focus on one 

1077
00:53:08,504 --> 00:53:09,440
variable. 
Perfect. 

1078
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:12,582
David, do you have anything to 
add to that? 

1079
00:53:12,582 --> 00:53:13,978
Nope. 
Yeah, same thing. 

1080
00:53:13,978 --> 00:53:17,119
I was like, let's just kick it 
to Matt. 

1081
00:53:17,119 --> 00:53:19,388
He's the stability guy. 
Yeah. 

1082
00:53:19,388 --> 00:53:22,559
Well, thank you everybody for 
submitting questions. 

1083
00:53:22,559 --> 00:53:25,634
We had more on the list that we 
just did not have time to get 

1084
00:53:25,634 --> 00:53:28,407
to, so we might circle back to 
them at a future mailbag 

1085
00:53:28,407 --> 00:53:30,948
episode. 
Thank you all for sticking with 

1086
00:53:30,948 --> 00:53:33,798
us in this journey. 
We've had a blast doing this 

1087
00:53:33,798 --> 00:53:36,823
alongside all of you and you're 
the reason that we get to keep 

1088
00:53:36,823 --> 00:53:39,332
doing it because you're engaged 
with what we're doing, you're 

1089
00:53:39,332 --> 00:53:41,662
asking good questions and 
hopefully you're able to have 

1090
00:53:41,662 --> 00:53:46,450
fun with us along the way and we
can keep learning together. 

1091
00:53:46,450 --> 00:53:47,200
Thanks everybody.