1 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,000 Everyone and welcome to the Doctors are Running podcast for 2 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,160 we a group of doctors of physical therapy talked about 3 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,560 the art and the science are the things we put on our feet today. 4 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:22,560 It is just me, Matt, doing a solo episode because I've got 5 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:24,760 some things that I want to talk about 2025. 6 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,160 This is probably going to be one of our first episodes of the 7 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,440 year. We'll see how this goes and 2024 8 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,320 was really interesting to me. A lot of life events happened. 9 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,040 A lot of really interesting things happened. 10 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,240 Obviously, the big thing is I finished my PHDI successfully 11 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,520 defended my dissertation, graduated now can say I have a 12 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,480 additional letters after my name is the second doctorate, which 13 00:00:44,480 --> 00:00:46,920 I'm very honored to have. It was super cool that I got to 14 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,760 contribute in an area that I'm passionate about, which is aging 15 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,880 and masters runners, which I have one last part of my 16 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:54,400 dissertation that needs to get published. 17 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:56,520 And for those of you that want to see it, please let me know. 18 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,240 I'll send it out. Hopefully should have a decision 19 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,680 here from the journal about whether they want to publish it, 20 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,560 which we've been going back and forth on this thing for like 7-8 21 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:05,800 months, which is very normal by the way, in the research world 22 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,080 to take that long to get something published. 23 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:13,080 But so finish that, move to Oregon from South from Southern 24 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,160 California. My wife and I are living in 25 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,440 Sherwood, which has been a great place, about 30 minutes 26 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:22,720 southwest of Portland, and teaching at George Fox now on 27 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,120 their DPT program, which has been very interesting 28 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:27,280 experience. And being back in the Northwest, 29 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:29,240 which I'm originally from Portland has been interesting 30 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,040 because for those who don't know this, some people might. 31 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:36,160 Portland is a absolute running footwear hub, maybe one of the 32 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,920 biggest ones in the world outside of places like Boston 33 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:40,920 and a few others people may not know. 34 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,320 There is a ton of running history obviously, and people 35 00:01:44,320 --> 00:01:46,120 will kind of think Nike and things like that. 36 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,440 But there's a ton of other companies that not only have 37 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:51,560 been here but are here now. The ones that I can think of off 38 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,200 the top of my head that are currently in Portland are Nike, 39 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:59,240 Adidas, Under Armour, Hoka on Columbia, Montreal. 40 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,400 And there's actually a ton of other ones which I actually 41 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:05,000 don't know if I can say some of them used to have bio mechanics 42 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,440 labs here, others are kind of lurking. 43 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:12,160 There's a lot going on here that has, there's a lot of history 44 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,600 here as well. So being back here has, and I've 45 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,480 done some consulting and stuff before, but being back here has 46 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,280 been opened some very interesting doors and there's 47 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:23,760 been some really cool people I've got to continue to talk 48 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:25,640 with and do a little bit of work with. 49 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,960 And just to clarify, when I say work means I've done consulting, 50 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,760 I will never, ever accept payments. 51 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,240 Neither were doctors running to promote any product. 52 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,120 We do not do that and I refuse to do it because it goes against 53 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,720 the ethics of what who we are because we want to be able to 54 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,920 view things honestly. However, we have definitely been 55 00:02:42,920 --> 00:02:45,640 to places like socketing. A few others have flown us out 56 00:02:45,640 --> 00:02:47,920 to areas where we've done some really cool stuff and some 57 00:02:47,920 --> 00:02:51,640 content, but we'll never accept payment for promoting issue. 58 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:53,920 Now I've been in a very interesting position where I've 59 00:02:53,920 --> 00:02:58,120 actually gotten to do some consulting on the development of 60 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,240 some things and it's been really interesting and eye opening. 61 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,760 And this is kind of the progression of even though I'm a 62 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,640 professor or researcher or physical therapist, this has 63 00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:10,960 always been a passion of mine. Being in the Fuller world. 64 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,440 I started in running stores at Fitright Northwest and foot 65 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:17,560 traffic in Portland, OR here many, many years ago and got to 66 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:19,960 know a lot of people before I went to BT school and kind of 67 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,320 stuck around and kept in contact and through doctors running have 68 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,800 gotten to learn a lot of really cool things about the industry. 69 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,800 And without naming any names because I respect all the people 70 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:32,840 in the industry and understand this is a business. 71 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,960 And while I do this for fun and to share and help educate 72 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,320 people, people's jobs, you know are are involved in this. 73 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,040 So what I'd like to share with all of you is something I'm 74 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,800 really passionate about is learning about shoes and 75 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,000 learning about the footwear industry behind them. 76 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:52,160 Now, to clarify, I'm not going to share any proprietary 77 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:56,120 information to any specific company in this discussion. 78 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,880 I'm not going to name any specific companies unless I'm 79 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,360 talking about rumors that I wasn't directly involved in that 80 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:02,440 a lot of people are going to know. 81 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,280 I'm not going to sacrifice as anybody. 82 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,600 I don't want to sacrifice any relationship with people. 83 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,640 These are just cool things that I think people should be aware 84 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,880 of that might make the running industry a little bit more 85 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:15,840 human. And that's what I've learned. 86 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,240 So it's been very interesting to go from this kind of magical, 87 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:22,200 mysterious thing to go, that's interesting how that works. 88 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,600 So I'm going to share this and this is going to be the top 11 89 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,760 things, 11 secrets you might not know about the running industry 90 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,760 that might help you understand a little bit more about where 91 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,400 these running shoes come from. Because when we do reviews, yes, 92 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,600 we're looking at the product and things like that, but it's been 93 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:38,920 very interesting. You know the process behind 94 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:40,400 this. So this is when you put a shoe 95 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,480 on like I have the Topocyclone 3. 96 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,920 When you look at this, I don't think people really understand 97 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,360 what goes into this. There's a big process, there's 98 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,880 multiple layers, tons of people involved in this. 99 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,360 So what I'm hoping for is that you get out of this a deeper 100 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,520 view into what goes into this and what goes into the running 101 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,640 industry. So First things first, one of 102 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:07,160 the most interesting things to me is when you see a shoe appear 103 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,600 on the market. This shoe has been alive for 104 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,360 three to five years before that because it takes three to five 105 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:18,000 years to get a product from a concept to actually hitting the 106 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,160 market. I've had so many conversation 107 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,320 with people in the running industry going, hey, you know, 108 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:24,240 super excited for this shoe to launch. 109 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,240 And the person goes, oh, that's not out yet. 110 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,800 Oh, that's right. Because a lot of the developers 111 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,760 will be working on the shoot two to three years and they'll 112 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,600 finish up their stuff two to three years before the shoot 113 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,040 even hits the market. So much so though, forgetting 114 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:43,160 about it, a lot of those people live three to five years in the 115 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,760 future because that's how far ahead they have to be, you know? 116 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:51,120 And again, I haven't necessarily worked with them, but everybody 117 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,000 was so surprised when the Nike Vapor Fly came to market. 118 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,960 But that thing had been in development for years. 119 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:01,120 I first heard about it back in 2012 when a friend of mine in 120 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,960 the Portlander was like, hey, by the way, I heard that Nike was 121 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:05,200 working on this really cool thing. 122 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:06,320 It's going to revolutionize stuff. 123 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:10,480 I'm like, whatever, OK, fine. And then Fast forward to 2016, 124 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,720 2017, I'm like, oh, I wonder if that's what he was talking about 125 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:19,480 because it takes a lot of work to go from a concept to actually 126 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,640 getting the product to debut. There's so many steps. 127 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,720 Some of them we're going to talk about a little bit, but just the 128 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:30,280 act of drawing, it takes time. A shoe doesn't just pop out. 129 00:06:30,280 --> 00:06:34,640 Although with the incredible innovations that have been seen 130 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,360 in 3D printing and development, we actually might see that 131 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,640 timeline start to get a little bit quicker. 132 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:44,120 But it takes a while. While it takes a while for 133 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,920 someone to draw it up and have an idea and for marketing to 134 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,800 make sure this is a good idea for the people up top, which 135 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,320 I'll talk about in a second. To approve it and for it to fit 136 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:54,320 in and then figure out, hey, does this work for people? 137 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,360 What's its purpose? And then actually start to 138 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,360 refine it, which takes forever. And then finally get to the 139 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:00,880 place where getting marketing can go. 140 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,680 How do we make sure this this sells and is in a good place? 141 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,120 That's takes a long time. So when you look at a product, 142 00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:11,600 that thing, if it just came out, has been around for a long time 143 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:12,960 now. Some people will be able to see 144 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,040 this because people are leaking a lot more photos of line of 145 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,480 prototypes and things like that, which I encourage you even 146 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,720 though I I like everybody likes rumors, stuff like that. 147 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,120 Please don't do that. That's like somebody's it is 148 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,200 somebody's livelihood and somebody's baby that they were 149 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,240 working on actually tons of people's babies, which we'll 150 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:29,960 talk about in a second but don't do that. 151 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,080 OK, that's not cool. It's company secrets, it's 152 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,600 company proprietary stuff that it just don't do it. 153 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,000 Although hearing and talking from some people, I'm starting 154 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,040 and I don't know this for sure. Sometimes either the running 155 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,640 shoe developers are just as big a geeks as we are, or I almost 156 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,200 wonder if sometimes they intentionally leak this stuff as 157 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:50,560 part of their marketing campaigns. 158 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,400 I don't know, but sometimes I I kind of wonder how often these 159 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,320 come up if they're actually doing this intentionally. 160 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,640 But that's that's a little bit dramatic of me anyway. 161 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,240 So the next piece. So it takes the shoes take a 162 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,360 long time to get from development from the like 163 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:09,080 creation concept all the way to market takes a while. 164 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,680 The other thing you need to know is that a lot of product 165 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,840 direction within the company comes from a hierarchical model. 166 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,440 This should be no surprise if you've worked in any company. 167 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:22,560 A lot of times whoever is at the top will really be the ones who 168 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:24,680 drive direction, which can be good. 169 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,480 It can also be really bad. So certain companies that maybe 170 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,560 get bought out by a larger company, if you notice all of a 171 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:33,120 sudden their product starts to change. 172 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:34,919 They're using different materials and materials feel 173 00:08:34,919 --> 00:08:36,679 different. They may feel better or worse. 174 00:08:36,919 --> 00:08:40,480 That direction will come from higher up, either from a higher 175 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,440 up CEO that says here's what we're going to be doing, or a 176 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,200 product line manager. Not, not not product line 177 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,720 manager, but somebody who's directing all this stuff, whom 178 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,040 the developers work for is typically going to be the one 179 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,280 that makes these decisions. Which is why sometimes you'll 180 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,720 see a company totally change their line and go, wait, what 181 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:01,440 happened, either for better or for worse. 182 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,560 A lot of that's coming from direction from higher up, 183 00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:07,480 somebody new who stepped into the leadership role and now 184 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:09,280 they're getting a say in what's happening. 185 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,280 OK. So that's very, very common. 186 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:15,080 Companies are like any company, a lot of the directions going to 187 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,080 typically come from up higher. There are one or two companies 188 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:22,360 out there that do give their employees a lot of freedom and 189 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:24,240 they can create some very interesting things. 190 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,600 I can't say who that is because that's part of their proprietary 191 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:29,080 stuff and how their business model works. 192 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,840 If you are from that company and you want to comment below, 193 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:33,640 please do. Oh, by the way, any of this 194 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,440 stuff. If I say wrong or you want to 195 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,400 clarify and you can or you know something, comment below. 196 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,600 The whole point of this stuff is to share and educate. 197 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,040 So add on. If I say something wrong, call 198 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,200 me out because I want to be saying the right thing or 199 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,000 providing the right information. So some companies do that. 200 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,480 Most of them are very hierarchical and a lot of the 201 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,960 things that you'll see change are usually a a direct, a reason 202 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,960 for someone higher up moving into that role. 203 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,720 The other thing to be aware of is that a shoe is developed not 204 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,240 by one person. It's developed by a team or 205 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,400 multiple people. And typically first versions of 206 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,200 shoes, there may not be that many people on the project. 207 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:11,840 Usually it's kind of a core team. 208 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,200 They'll have some people and then if it's really popular, 209 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,080 then you get a ton of people that jump on, jump on because 210 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,520 people want to be part of something that's cool. 211 00:10:19,680 --> 00:10:21,920 That could be great. Usually when too many people get 212 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,360 involved, like anything, it usually suffers, which is why it 213 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,680 is not uncommon for the second version of a shoe to be kind of 214 00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:30,520 not great and then things really turn around for the third or 215 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,720 first fourth version. OK, that's true. 216 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,480 You can think of lots of shoes like that, OK. 217 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,480 But there it's never developed by one person and a lot of 218 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,040 people have a lot of say in this. 219 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:44,120 This can be anybody, everybody from the person that drew the 220 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:48,080 original concept art of the shoe to biomechanist to the 221 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,320 developers, to the people in marketing. 222 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:54,160 Like, everybody has a say in what happens and eventually 223 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,360 there is usually usually a higher up that has to say with 224 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:58,440 the final product that comes to market. 225 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:03,520 And sometimes people agree and sometimes they don't have lots 226 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:05,960 of people that when we're talking about a shoe. 227 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,800 And usually this doesn't always get said during the interview, 228 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,360 but often times behind the scenes, like, yeah, you know, I 229 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,720 really wanted this, but this was changed by somebody at the last 230 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,080 minute. Or what's interesting is you 231 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,840 have somebody who worked on a project and they're super 232 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:20,120 psycho. They didn't listen to me on 233 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:21,640 this. They should have done this. 234 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,440 Somebody else said to change this, companies or companies, a 235 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,840 lot of people have opinions. Not everybody is going to be 236 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,400 100% happy, but the goal of getting this stuff to market is 237 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:33,760 you got to have a team based approach. 238 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,880 That means some people get say, some people get less and that's 239 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:39,360 how it goes. Okay, not everybody's going 240 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:40,560 happy. Some people are going to be 241 00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:42,920 happy. That's how that's how it works. 242 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,680 Now we talk about people working together in these companies. 243 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:52,680 Companies also work together when you see a shoe like any one 244 00:11:52,680 --> 00:11:55,200 of this stuff. So this is actually, Hoka is a 245 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,400 really, really great example of this because they actually have 246 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,600 multiple companies working on this at the same time. 247 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,000 So you obviously have Hoka doing the design and all this kind of 248 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:08,480 stuff, but the PBX foam is actually going to come from a 249 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,200 completely different company. Now they get Hoka obviously say 250 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:12,480 how we're going to shape this stuff like that. 251 00:12:12,680 --> 00:12:16,000 But to be able to get this material, Hoka actually has to 252 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,920 contact a materials company to supply that. 253 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:23,920 Some companies have contracts with other midsole companies or 254 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,000 foam companies and they continually use them and this 255 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,600 goes on for certain time. Other companies will actually 256 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,720 footwear company is in can actually reach out to different 257 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,400 companies and decide who they want to work with for whatever 258 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,080 different shoe. A lot of the P backs based 259 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,800 materials come from a company called Arkema. 260 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:41,840 I probably said that wrong. Please call me out. 261 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,040 I can barely speak English is one of the common companies that 262 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,320 does this stuff. So for a lot of Nike stuff, 263 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,040 that's where the P backs material comes from. 264 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,720 I mentioned the Topocyclone 3 earlier that P backs powered 265 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,600 stuff is coming from Arkema and there's more and more companies 266 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,920 that I think might be doing P ball or similar phones, but 267 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:00,200 everybody's got a different stuff. 268 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,000 And so when you see this shoe, right, it's actually coming from 269 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,880 a Hoka, they got to contact Arkema. 270 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,200 And then you have different companies that provide different 271 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,320 outsole materials. So now you have to contact 272 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,720 Vibram, which is a completely different company that'll make 273 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,520 the outsole material. You'll also see companies like 274 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,280 Adidas that use Continental. That's multiple companies that 275 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,120 have to be contracted and connected with to be able to 276 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,200 make this final product. And The funny thing that I've 277 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,120 learned is sometimes those relationships are really great. 278 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,080 They're very open communication. A lot of the footwear developers 279 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,080 or designers could be like, hey, you know, I'm going to call, 280 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:34,400 hey, can we do this? Awesome. 281 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:36,440 Sometimes that connection is not so good. 282 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,960 This is people, they're like, dude, I contacted these people 283 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,240 like months ago and they never got back to us or they couldn't 284 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,440 get us the, the materials in time. 285 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,600 So like any company, the footwear industry is no 286 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,920 different. It takes a lot of different 287 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,160 people and companies to develop 1 shoe and get all the pieces 288 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:54,920 together. Sometimes that's really good. 289 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,120 Sometimes relationships get ruined and they go, you know 290 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:58,600 what? We have to use somebody else. 291 00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:01,280 Like we're going to use a different midsole material, a 292 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,160 different midsole company, just because people are people. 293 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,160 And sometimes things work out and sometimes people get a 294 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:07,960 little mad because communication's not great or 295 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,120 disagreements happen. That's how it goes. 296 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,120 Like any company. Now, the shoes I just held up, I 297 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,520 don't have any connection with their and I haven't talked with 298 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:18,000 them about any of their understanding about how they do 299 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:19,960 that. That's just how this works. 300 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:26,960 OK, Now there are many different stages to footwear creation. 301 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,240 One of the thing that people don't know or maybe somewhat 302 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:34,160 aware of is that the early stages, there's a lot of 303 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,080 different cool products that made that are made. 304 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:41,560 The things that you see come to market are far fewer than the 305 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,480 ideas that people have. So there is some super if you 306 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:50,120 walk into any footwear companies lab or or like general area, 307 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,280 you'll see a bunch of different other products from different 308 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,880 companies because by the way, everybody's a footwear geek. 309 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:57,880 Everybody's looking at other stuff, running out of people's 310 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,200 stuff, everybody's sharing, everybody's looking at stuff. 311 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,920 People have connections all over and so they geek out just as 312 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,440 much as anybody does. But you'll also see a lot of 313 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:11,000 really cool product that often times never makes it to market 314 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,960 for whatever reason. So in the concept phase, people 315 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,360 get to be super creative and they make tons of stuff. 316 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,200 And our team has been really lucky that few of us have been 317 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,160 able to do some wear testing at this stage. 318 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,960 And things are pretty crazy. And we've seen shoes that like, 319 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,160 wow, this is amazing or never thought of this and before this 320 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,640 is and then it just disappears. And for varying reasons, 321 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,160 sometimes a product will not launch, whether it's marketing 322 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,200 going, yeah, we really can't, you know, sell this or the 323 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,760 company going, we can't make enough money to make this worth 324 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:41,720 again. Because remember, this is a 325 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:43,360 business. If they can't sell enough of 326 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,040 this product to actually make a profit, they're probably not 327 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:47,880 going to do it, Which I was always wondered, you made all 328 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,240 this these lines of stuff, why not like sell it is like a 329 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,600 specialty thing, But that's that's a different story. 330 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:58,520 So only a small portion actually makes it to market. 331 00:15:58,520 --> 00:15:59,720 So there's some super cool stuff. 332 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,440 And I really want to give credit to many of those people who are 333 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:04,720 in that product development and that early concept stuff. 334 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,200 They are super creative and they come up with cool stuff. 335 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,800 And sometimes it's really cool. Sometimes it's not so cool. 336 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,320 Like, dude, where did you this like hurts my foot. 337 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:13,640 What are you doing? And we'll talk about, we're 338 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:18,120 testing in just a second, but there's so much creativity that 339 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,520 happens. You would not believe the things 340 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,040 that have already been tested or ideas are coming up. 341 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,160 You're going to have to wait three to five years to see them. 342 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,320 But I just want to give credit that there's so much cool stuff 343 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,240 that happens and it would be interesting to see that shared. 344 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,200 But you can't because that's where a lot of proprietary ideas 345 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,520 come from. And who knows what develops in 346 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:38,720 there and what entire lines can come from now. 347 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,440 So just know there's this area that people don't typically see 348 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,560 that super creative and super cool that never makes to market, 349 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:47,320 which can sometimes be a little disappointing. 350 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,600 Now that moves us into this thing called wear testing. 351 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,120 A lot of people probably listen to this who are geeks like 352 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,320 ourselves have maybe done some wear testing. 353 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,160 And what wear testing is, is it's during the development 354 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:02,040 phase of this product, companies will send product out that's 355 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:06,760 unfinished to runners to get feedback to go. 356 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,839 How does this fit feel? What's the function feel like to 357 00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:12,440 get feedback on the product to figure out, hey, do they need to 358 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,119 make any changes? Do they need to make any tweaks 359 00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:17,440 before they finally launch the product? 360 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:19,359 There's a ton of stuff that goes into this. 361 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,599 You can sign up for this. It doesn't necessarily mean 362 00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:23,160 you're going to be selected because companies will be 363 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,359 looking for certain things for certain products. 364 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,520 They will look for certain runners for a lot of the like 365 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,840 trainers, they'll typically look for the more recreation runners. 366 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,520 For a lot of the racing shoes, they'll either test it on their 367 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,320 own leads or they'll have specific criteria of how fast 368 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,840 they want you to be able to make sure that you are testing the 369 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,200 shoe and how it's really meant. Which is why we always talk 370 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,920 about the fact that super shoes typically aren't developed with 371 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:48,840 more recreational or slower runners in mind. 372 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,720 They're typically developed with faster runners. 373 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,840 That's not always true, but many companies do that. 374 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,800 But companies are trying to figure out what tweaks they need 375 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,040 to be made because a lot of the stuff happens with in the early 376 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,760 stages with developing a small group of people and the couple 377 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,560 testers to then getting to a much larger sample. 378 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,080 And this can be anywhere from 20 to 100 plus people. 379 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,880 And there's usually several rounds of this where they'll get 380 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:16,200 feedback and people will typically run X number of miles 381 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,080 in the shoe that different companies will say, hey, please 382 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,680 run in this, you know, for 200 miles. 383 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:22,960 Some companies will just have to send you a couple of shoes and 384 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:24,560 say, hey, compare. What do you think about this? 385 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:26,760 Usually competitors, they're trying to go, how is this going 386 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,680 to fit compared to other shoes? Tons of different ways companies 387 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,440 do this, but every single company somewhere has a website 388 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,080 where you can sign up and you might get selected if that's 389 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,280 something you want to do. Now you have to realize these 390 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:40,640 products are still not finalized. 391 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,520 Sometimes you get stuff that's great and like, oh this is so 392 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,040 cool and you might never see it again. 393 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,440 I've had several companies send me something for wear testing 394 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,280 and then I'm like, where did that go? 395 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,160 And they decided to change it at the last minute and that's how 396 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,320 it goes. I've also had a situation where 397 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:59,160 a shoe totally doesn't work and it's either injured myself, I've 398 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,080 heard of others having this happen, or I just can't run in 399 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:03,960 it and I got to send it back, which is always really, really 400 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,600 disappointing. So there's this world behind 401 00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:09,480 what you see where you can actually get gear for free, 402 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,360 although you have some responsibilities of testing it 403 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:15,120 and absolutely do not share it. You will sign what's called a 404 00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:19,560 non disclosure agreement or NDA. So yeah, it you can get stuff 405 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,680 for free, but there's a a requirement and most companies 406 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:24,960 will want you to send it back. You don't usually get to keep 407 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,840 the product because they'll take it, they'll test it, they'll see 408 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:29,040 like how do you compress the phone? 409 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,280 What's the also like there's been one or two companies that 410 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,040 have nice enough to, to, to let us keep the product. 411 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,560 That's usually, I guess, because I probably destroyed it beyond 412 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:38,360 all belief, but that's it's a different story. 413 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:40,240 Usually companies want to take it back. 414 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,840 Now, I want to give credit to those who are in charge of wear 415 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,560 testing and I've got to meet several people over the years 416 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:48,840 and I want to give a special shout out to each one of you. 417 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,560 And I know several of you do listen to this. 418 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,360 You all are awesome. Because what a wear tester 419 00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:58,800 director's job is, is they have to take all the feedback from 420 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,200 all the different runners. And typically it's usually given 421 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,280 in a survey format. They'll, they'll typically say, 422 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,120 hey, here's a survey. Fill this out at the start of 423 00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:09,320 the testing. At the middle, at the end, it'll 424 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,520 say like what's the shoe fit like and give a Likert scale, 425 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,640 what's the midsole feel like? Does it feel good or not good? 426 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,480 All these different components. And then they'll often have free 427 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:23,680 form texts that they somehow to take all this data and make 428 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,920 something from it and be able to translate to the developers to 429 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:28,680 go, hey, you need to make these modifications. 430 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,200 The midsole foam and the heel needs to be softened a little 431 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:32,200 bit. The forefoot needs to be open 432 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:33,760 just a little bit because enough people have gone there. 433 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,640 It's a lot of taking in information. 434 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,880 And I want to give kudos because it's a very hard job to take 435 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,440 this and go, hey, you're like aggregating what's the most 436 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,320 important things for where the shoe needs to go before it hits 437 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,400 the market. So we're testing is this really, 438 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,240 really big thing that give kudos and if you ever participate it, 439 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:56,040 please be nice and follow the protocols and do what you're 440 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,080 supposed to because it just makes it can either make 441 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,840 somebody'd job easier or it can make it a lot harder. 442 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:05,720 So the other piece of this that I learned just recently is we've 443 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,840 talked about kind of the process within the company. 444 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,800 There's a lot of companies that actually contract out and I 445 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,600 haven't done this contract out to outside people to develop a 446 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,120 shoe. And I didn't realize how common 447 00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:19,560 this was is, you know, larger companies that have a lot of 448 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,720 different things going on, they may pay a totally outside group 449 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,840 to develop a shoe for them. This is not uncommon anymore and 450 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,960 it has extended beyond just having one person to come person 451 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:32,920 to come in and give their thoughts, but literally leave 452 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,600 the entire development of the shoe to outside the company. 453 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,200 And so then they'll they'll bring the components kind of 454 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,440 gone past that development stage, they'll bring it back 455 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,680 within the the company. Maybe that team has their own 456 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,520 marketers. Maybe the companies can use 457 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,160 their own marketers. It really depends on how things 458 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,040 go. But sometimes the product might 459 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:51,240 be developed outside the company. 460 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,720 So if you see something that's like out of the blue, who knows, 461 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,200 that might have been developed by an outside contracted team. 462 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,080 So sometimes it's within, sometimes it's without. 463 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,240 Again, just recently learned this and I really didn't 464 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,760 understand that until recently. The other part that's really in 465 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,880 my world is that every company does research. 466 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,560 They do lost of testing. Every company I've ever been to 467 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,080 when I walk into their bio mechanics lab, I've been like, 468 00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:20,880 Oh my gosh, this is awesome. They have tons of equipment. 469 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,440 Almost everybody has at least one, if not 24 sensitive 470 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,160 treadmills, meaning. And for those of you that are 471 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,840 bio mechanics and you're going to get this, the where I grew up 472 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,760 at Azusa Pacific University of my PhD, we had, we didn't even 473 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:34,880 have a treadmill. We actually just had an open 474 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,560 space with force plates that I had to have people run across in 475 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,400 a very small room. And for all the masters, 476 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,600 directors, people that came and did this with me, thank you. 477 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,880 I know this space was confining. You guys all did, guys and gals 478 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,280 all did awesome. Thank you again. 479 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,760 There will be more research at George Fox coming up really 480 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:53,800 soon, but every company has those force plates inside the 481 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:55,480 treadmills, which sometimes they make them. 482 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,520 Sometimes these things cost hundreds of thousands of dollars 483 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,000 just for the treadmill. Not talking about the 484 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,480 physiological equipment, not talking about the 3D bio 485 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,080 mechanics, camera systems. They have all kinds of stuff and 486 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,280 they test their elite runners, They test for recreational 487 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:13,240 runners, looking at how people are reacting biomechanically to 488 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:14,720 the things that they're putting on their feet. 489 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:16,720 Do they use all that data? No. 490 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,400 They're going to have specific things that different teams are 491 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,240 going to be using. But the bio mechanists are 492 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:25,200 collecting some super cool data. Now, they don't typically 493 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,840 publish this stuff and they know lots of things, but they can't 494 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:29,360 share it 'cause it's proprietor to the company. 495 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,840 They don't typically share this unless they're involved with the 496 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,840 university that has an Institutional Review Board, 497 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,440 which is a group people that help decide, hey, is this 498 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,760 ethical? Can you do this research to 499 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:42,840 figure out is it publishable? Can you go forward with this? 500 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,400 A lot of companies have a variation of that, but they 501 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,720 don't typically get to publishing because they don't 502 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,000 have that process. OK, But they know these things. 503 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,440 At least they know them on a smaller scale because one of the 504 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,440 issues with the companies is they will typically do their 505 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,680 tests on very small numbers of people, 8-10, maybe less than 506 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,440 that to get an idea because they don't have time like me to spend 507 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,280 6 months looking at one piece. They got to move and they have 508 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,880 deadlines they have to meet, so they got to move. 509 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,800 The challenge with doing bio mechanic stuff on five to 10 510 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,720 people is that it really doesn't have enough statistical power to 511 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,840 make meaningful research based conclusions on things. 512 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,160 My research I've learned from some very good data out there. 513 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,960 You got to have at least 25 subjects for any biomechanical 514 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,400 study to have decent power. And you're welcome to argue with 515 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:30,600 me on this. This is a great study. 516 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,720 Somebody please remind me to cite it because I'm not a 517 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,600 statistician. Statisticians are a brilliant 518 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,360 people and I am trying to learn as much as I can, but I'm a bomb 519 00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:41,640 mechanist, not a statistician. So you have at least 25 people. 520 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,080 So the power of the conclusions may not be so hot, but they've 521 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,720 done enough times that they see things that they know. 522 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,440 The companies know what happens if you only train in a super 523 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,160 shoe and what happens to your bio mechanics. 524 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:55,520 They can't just tell us because they don't. 525 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,280 They may or may not want people to know what happens long term 526 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,640 to your bio mechanics. They know what happens when you 527 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,160 have more or less toe spraying. They know all these things I 528 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,560 would love to have published, but they can't share it because 529 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,280 it's proprietary to the company. So there's lots of answers out 530 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,680 there that I would love to figure out how to get more of 531 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,120 this stuff share without violating company property. 532 00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:17,280 Just so we understand more, because a lot of the research 533 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,960 you see on footwear is done from outside people that it that's 534 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,200 coming out like anywhere from 8 to 10 years after people, the 535 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,840 running industry, like, Oh yeah, we already do that. 536 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,920 Like I've talked to people about sidewalls. 537 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,160 You're like, oh duh, we've known this for like 20-30 years. 538 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,680 I'm like, why are we just now talking about this? 539 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,680 All that stuff people know they don't necessarily share. 540 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,000 There's lots of information that's closely guarded because 541 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,480 it's company secrets. I really wish there was a way to 542 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,440 change that because I think a lot of people would learn. 543 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:43,600 It would just make everybody better. 544 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,480 But businesses are businesses and I'm not going to judge. 545 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:51,320 OK, Now marketing and bio mechanics teams and developers 546 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,720 do not always speak the same language. 547 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,080 A lot of times what you'll see for biomechs is, hey, we're 548 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,520 trying to do this. And then it may either doesn't 549 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,800 get translated and how things are explained in the product 550 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,840 because the public may not care about that, but also because you 551 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,600 have to sell the product, which is why I always wondered like, 552 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,520 why is this shoe being said to be really, really soft when I 553 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,400 can't? I feel the exact opposite under 554 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,200 foot. Now there's biomechanical 555 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,000 variations. Some people are going to 556 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,720 perceive something that's soft as vice versa. 557 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,880 I'm certainly one of those weirdos, which is why we try to 558 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,280 have as many members do review as possible as different people 559 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,720 experience things differently. But there's just some product 560 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,760 like you guys maybe took guys, gals maybe took a little liberty 561 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:31,600 with how you were trying to sell this. 562 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:37,760 So know that sometimes there's, as with any people, I feel like 563 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,080 sometimes some companies like playing telephone where people 564 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,680 explain something and it the the message get changed as it goes 565 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,520 along. And so no different departments 566 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,240 don't always talk, which is interesting in companies and 567 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,120 they certainly don't speak the same language. 568 00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:53,920 So sometimes some of that can get lost in translation. 569 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,600 So when you see a shoe, I'm really going to encourage you 570 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,800 look at a variety of sources, but the most important thing is 571 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,960 try it on for yourself because only you are actually going to 572 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,600 know what something is really feeling like because you're an 573 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,760 end of one many, you're an individual subject. 574 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,200 OK, you can. That's why I would encourage you 575 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,200 to look at review sites that have a bunch of testers on them. 576 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,600 Or you can find a reviewer. I don't care who you find, find 577 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,440 someone that matches you, whether that's on our team or 578 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,320 off our team so that you can know. 579 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,120 Hey, oh, this person, I tend to perceive things similarly great, 580 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,840 awesome. Or hey, this company, usually 581 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,200 when they say this stuff, it usually actually matched with me 582 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,880 or maybe it doesn't. Knowing those things can be very 583 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,200 helpful, but there's two, two different knowledge bases with 584 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,000 these companies. And I want to reiterate this, 585 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,000 that some companies are really, really good at interpersonal 586 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,520 communication between departments and other ones live 587 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,280 in different worlds. And sometimes you may understand 588 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,560 that and see it OK. Other really interesting thing 589 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,760 about that is, and kudos to the marketing people there is these 590 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,880 things called embargoes. And embargoes are where you're 591 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,800 basically not supposed to share any information about the shoe. 592 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,640 And the reason being is because there are typically product 593 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,600 timelines of when they want to start sharing information to 594 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,560 either get hype about the shoe or they want to release it at a 595 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,440 certain time of the year or the market because that's what it's 596 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,200 going to, that they think that's when it's going to create the 597 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,000 most hype and get the most purchasing power out of it. 598 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,600 Marketing people know some I've learned some phenomenal things 599 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,360 like color for example, and how color schemes work and how 600 00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:25,760 certain colors are in and out each year and how you have to 601 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,240 stay on top of that and even predict it a little bit but 602 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,680 timing is super important with how a product is released So if 603 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,000 you see a bunch of reviewers get everybody get product at a 604 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,480 certain time, they're probably part of marketing trying to 605 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,400 figure out how do we get enough information out to help this 606 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,120 product sell. Now, Speaking of people in the 607 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,520 running industry, the other thing you'll notice is that 608 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,360 sometimes you'll see something from one company and all of a 609 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,120 sudden you'll see it in another company. 610 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,160 And sometimes that's because people, you know, copy each 611 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:53,440 other. There's some companies who do 612 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,080 that blatantly and then get sued for it. 613 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,280 But running industry people move around like crazy. 614 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,040 If you went and picked 1 developer, I guarantee you most 615 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,800 of them have worked at two or three other companies. 616 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,800 I think I've yet to, other than some of the newer people, people 617 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,720 that have been in the industry, they've worked for multiple 618 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,560 companies and like, and it's not uncommon that when we talk to 619 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,640 people also they'll they e-mail, hey, I'm leaving for this, you 620 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,080 know, I'll see you later. And then like 5 weeks later we 621 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,200 go, we're talking and wait a minute, what are you doing here? 622 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:25,080 So people jump around and you're not supposed to do this. 623 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,560 But obviously when you go somewhere else, people bring 624 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,480 ideas and thoughts with them. OK, that could be good, that 625 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,960 could be not good, right? They try. 626 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,120 People obviously try to be careful with this because 627 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,680 everybody's going to sign non disclosure agreements. 628 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,160 But you know, concepts, developments, personals, 629 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,480 developments are going to go where they are with how I do 630 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,160 this as someone who gets contracted is I never share 631 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,680 anything any company has done with anything else. 632 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,080 I will share ideas that I have or some things that I have 633 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,640 learned as long as I don't mention the company or as long 634 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,200 as it's not violating my NDA. But there's certain things that 635 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,200 you can learn and go, oh, that's interesting. 636 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,840 Like if I'm talking about a heel buffle, I've learned tons of 637 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,320 stuff. Is any that's specific to any 638 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,720 company? No, OK, I can't tell you if I've 639 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,600 worked on that with any company, but it's interesting concepts, 640 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:16,360 but people go throughout one of the best ways to get a raise, to 641 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,120 be honest, is to move to a different company. 642 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,280 That's no different in the running industry. 643 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,200 It's also great if you're trying to progress your career or you 644 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:24,800 just want something different, right? 645 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,480 You want to live in a different place, you want to have a 646 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,520 different team, you want to do all kinds of stuff. 647 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,760 And when I say people move, I don't just mean within footwear. 648 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,120 People will go do and I, it took me a while to realize this. 649 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,120 They'll be working on running shoes for one minute, then 650 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,040 they'll suddenly move to apparel and even the same company or a 651 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,640 different company, they'll go from doing. 652 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,520 I've known people that are like researchers and info industries 653 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,240 that go from doing like hand stuff to all of a sudden doing 654 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,320 running shoes. People move around. 655 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,040 The critical thinking and concepts continue with them and 656 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,640 it's really fun to see that. I knew ideas to get brought from 657 00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,160 different industries, which is how you see a lot of 658 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,720 development, but people move around like crazy. 659 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,760 So when you see a concept going that looks really familiar show 660 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,960 up somewhere else, that might be because somebody moved and now 661 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,160 they have taken their ideas and they're implementing them there. 662 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,640 So that's how that works. The last piece is something that 663 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,520 I've wondered about for a long time. 664 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,920 It's slightly off topic, but I've wondered about this for 665 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:22,320 years. And the more I've talked to 666 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,400 people more, they've been nice to tell me that this is in fact 667 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,840 true. So those of you that have 668 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:32,440 wondered, do different colorways of shoes, can they actually be 669 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,840 different? The answer is yes, and here's 670 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,960 why. Because like any product, things 671 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,000 can vary even between the same model. 672 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,480 I'm sure you have lots of things you've got and go, hey, I got 673 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,080 this one version of this. I like I, I got this, I got, I, 674 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,920 I purchased this thing and I get the same thing and it's just 675 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,720 slightly different. When things are manufactured and 676 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,880 when they are shipped, there are all kinds of things that can 677 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,320 affect the end feel of a product or the end function. 678 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,320 Footwear is no different. So if you have a specific blend, 679 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,320 like a lot of these midsole foams now are very sensitive and 680 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,280 you have to have just the right blend, the right temperature 681 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,280 setting, all this kind of things to biochemically create this 682 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,360 stuff. It doesn't mean that's the end 683 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:16,880 product. Because when a lot of the stuff 684 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,960 is made over in China and over in Asia, when you ship it over 685 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:25,000 to the United States, there's all across the world, even all 686 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,720 kinds of things can happen on the ships and planes when the 687 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,640 product is sitting in these large crates. 688 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,240 It's not uncommon that these materials can and shoes can 689 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,000 experience extreme temperatures, either hot or cold. 690 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,680 And then mid cell foams will change permanently in response 691 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,600 to those extremes. When things are packed in a 692 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,440 small container or a tight airtight container and you've 693 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,360 got heat or the engine or the sun bearing down and that stuff 694 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,240 heats up. When you've got a plane and 695 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,720 things are going up super high and you're going into negative 696 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,160 temperatures and things are in a cargo Bay, that can change 697 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,640 stuff. So it's not uncommon that one 698 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,880 bit of material made it one time when shipped over. 699 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,360 You can have an entire batch of a product that is completely 700 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,040 different in terms of the midsole properties, in terms of 701 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,600 the fit compared to the exact same model, but it's different 702 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,480 colorway and it happens to be even within the same colorway. 703 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,920 And it happens due to the shipping and manufacturing. 704 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,280 Some companies are really good at the manufacturing specifics 705 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,000 like they, they are really good at making sure things stay the 706 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,640 same every single time. And that's why you'll see a 707 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,360 little more consistency among colorways and batches of the 708 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,880 product. Other companies that might not 709 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,760 happen as much. COVID has been super rough on 710 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,080 the Asian market, right? Just because it's shut down 711 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,040 factories and all that kind of things have happened. 712 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,840 And so that can totally change how product is made or developed 713 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:48,440 or any of the materials or the processes. 714 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,520 Or you can have a situation where, hey, this product needs 715 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,680 to get to market, but we don't exactly have this exact material 716 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:56,080 or whatever. And so something might get 717 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:57,680 modified or something might get missed. 718 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,480 And then you have something that fits differently, feels 719 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,640 differently. And so as a sure reviewer to 720 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,920 learn this and have this confirmed is really challenging. 721 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,080 You go wait a minute. If I get this color a, is this 722 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,600 going to fit and feel exactly like a different color way? 723 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,719 And so I'm sharing this with you. 724 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,960 This is some of the challenges that we had docs running think 725 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,600 about because we're always trying to really get you good 726 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,239 information. We do this as a side project. 727 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,400 We, this is not our main source of income. 728 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,520 We do not, we will never charge companies to review a shoe 729 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,719 because we are going to be stay completely independent. 730 00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:33,440 And I have shot down a lot of people going, hey, can we, I'm 731 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,639 like, no, OK, you send us a product, we're going to do our 732 00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:38,520 independent thoughts for not promoting this for you. 733 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:40,360 We're doing this to share information. 734 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,520 We are happy to look at the product with you and geek out 735 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,239 with you and share the excitement about it. 736 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,920 But we're going to end. If it's a great product, we will 737 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,639 say that if it's not a great product, we're going to say it's 738 00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:52,639 not a great product. We might try to see who it 739 00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:54,800 actually still might work for and what positive might breathe 740 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:56,280 in there. But we're always going to be 741 00:34:56,280 --> 00:35:00,840 really honest because the goal is to support both the consumer 742 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,280 to go, how can you learn what products going to work well for 743 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:05,880 you? But the other piece of this is 744 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,200 we really want to support the, the developers and the people 745 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,560 remembering that these are people that are companies, 746 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,560 companies to help them go, OK, how do I learn more? 747 00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:17,920 How do I make better product? How do I be more confident when 748 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,080 I'm developing and making sure I'm making product that's going 749 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,040 to keep people healthy, at least not hurt them? 750 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,880 And we're learning just alongside everyone. 751 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,440 And I really want to thank everybody that's been part of 752 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,880 our and my journey this far that shared stuff. 753 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:32,760 Hopefully I haven't violated any trust with this stuff. 754 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,120 I haven't named any companies, but it has been so cool to learn 755 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:37,600 this stuff. And I think a lot of the stuff 756 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,600 is cool enough that it should be shared. 757 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,920 This there's a whole world of people I know. 758 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,280 The other thing that I'm sharing this for is I also know a lot of 759 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,680 people are interested in getting into the footwear industry and 760 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,320 I'm hoping this sheds a little bit more light. 761 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,120 So I didn't know any of this when I was working in running 762 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:52,440 stores. I think it would have totally 763 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,960 changed my understanding of the product and how I explain that 764 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:57,280 to people when they would ask me questions. 765 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,400 A lot of, I don't know the stuff that I know now that makes it 766 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:01,960 even more exciting and interesting. 767 00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:05,360 And I hope coming along for this journey is just as interesting 768 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,080 and excited for all of you. And I'm hoping to continue 769 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,760 sharing stuff like this of what I'm geeking out about, what I'm 770 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:15,640 excited about and hopefully help you all learn, get better along 771 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,360 with us as we are trying to learn and just have a good time 772 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,920 with this crazy thing called running shoes and running. 773 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,080 So yeah, as always, please, if you have any additional 774 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,440 thoughts, if I said something wrong, please comment below with 775 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,680 the correct thing. If I mispronounce something, 776 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,600 you're always welcome to make fun of me because like I said, I 777 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:37,240 can barely speak English as it is. 778 00:36:37,240 --> 00:36:39,480 It is my only language and I can barely speak that. 779 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,320 Please also give feedback if you have any additional things you 780 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,400 want to share that doesn't violate any companies NDA or 781 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,760 policies, please share below. It's always really exciting. 782 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:51,840 This is kind of why we like getting people in the industry 783 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,840 on because they always share really exciting stuff and some 784 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,600 really cool insights. They think help make this thing, 785 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,920 the shoe so much more than just something you put on your feet. 786 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,360 Something that we want you to think about, not overthink, but 787 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,200 understand where things are coming from so that you can 788 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:10,320 understand what maybe how you make better decisions or why 789 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,000 things are done. As always, please like, comment, 790 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,760 subscribe, follow. Please give us feedback on what 791 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,800 you like. 2025 is what we're hoping to be a year of 792 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,000 consistent growth while still maintaining our sanity. 793 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,280 So if you have any ideas of what we can do to improve, please let 794 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,880 us know. And last but last not least, as 795 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:31,680 I've said before, all of this is done to help you. 796 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,240 So hope this really helps. Hope you're enjoying time and 797 00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:35,440 wishing you a wonderful.