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This episode of the doctors are 
running podcast. 

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check out the link in our 

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description. 
Hello everyone, and welcome to 

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the Dachshund fronting podcast, 
where we a group of doctors to 

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physical therapy, discuss the 
Art and Science of running. 

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And the stuff that we put on our
feet today at the round table, 

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we have David Salas, Matthew, 
Klein and myself, Nathan Brown. 

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We are having a fun episode 
today and what's been making 

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these episodes? 
Really fun has been the growth 

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of one of the things that we 
just love getting to get 

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together and talk about this 
stuff because it helps us all 

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grow and learn. 
But we've also been being the 

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growth of the podcast itself. 
So thank you for to all of you 

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over the last couple months who 
have joined us on this kind of 

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Journey of learning together and
one request we do have that 

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would really help us out. 
We try not to request this too 

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often but if we could have you 
go on to wherever you listen to 

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your podcast and just rate and 
write a small review, that goes 

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a long way in helping this thing
continue to grow, which gives us

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more Liberties to keep making 
this podcast. 

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So we just again, we really 
think you did for coming along 

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on this journey and if you're 
willing to take, you know, ten 

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seconds, And get a review out 
there for us. 

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We'd really appreciate it. 
So thank you all so much. 

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So today we're going to be 
starting with our subjective and

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our subjective is what is the 
biggest Trend that you're 

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curious about in the running 
shoes, fear or the running 

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training sphere, whatever, sort 
of Trends you're seeing in the 

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running world that you're most 
curious about or most skeptical 

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of. 
So, we just want to get your 

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thoughts because I think it's 
going to help launch us into a 

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whole new way of doing a couple 
episodes and that's what we're 

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doing today. 
We are starting our first of the

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body. 
Buy or sell episodes that we're 

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doing. 
So we're going to be bringing up

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different running shoe, Trends 
running philosophies and 

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practices as they relate to 
running shoes. 

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And we're going to gauge on 
whether these are things, we 

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should hang our hats on and if 
we should buy or sell the idea. 

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So before we start though, David
and Matt, it's good to be with 

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both of you. 
Give us a 20 second update on 

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kind of what you're running 
journey is like right now where 

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you at in a training cycle or 
just what's it looking like 

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David, you can Yeah, it just 
kind of exiting a training cycle

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so to speak been building up 
quite a bit over the last five 

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six weeks. 
I'll be racing a half marathon 

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next weekend seven days from 
today so we'll be entering that 

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soon. 
So will be tapering this week 

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and that's that's what we're up 
to great. 

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Now what about you? 
Yeah I'm still on a kind of an 

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ongoing building session last 
couple years have been a little 

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challenging between doing too 
many things at once and have 

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Being that kind of impact my 
training and racing, but I am 

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getting back to doing really 
hard workouts enough for your 

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kind of feeling like really gas 
at the end of work out. 

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And going like, oh gosh, I don't
know if I can handle this or 

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hold this. 
So I'm just getting back that 

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point getting some speed in my 
leg. 

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So it's actually going really, 
really well. 

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I think, I, it's really fun to 
be training myself and just kind

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of experimenting with stuffing. 
Let's see what happens here. 

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Let's experiment with this. 
So, things are going really, 

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really well. 
I just did 10 miles today, which

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is Believe It or Not, My long 
run and Is the longest run. 

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I've done a little bit. 
So yeah, just enjoying building 

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back and being healthy and just 
still getting constant miles and

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good. 
And for the viewers, please go 

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and comment and show. 
Matt some love. 

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We need to get this guy racing 
again. 

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It's been a while. 
It's been a good minutes because

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I've seen you take the lines. 
So yeah, it's I thought about it

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last couple weeks but then 
there's always something in 

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terms of like another paper I 
got to get done and I'm in the 

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lab on weekends are like for 
like Prime by mechanics. 

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Lab time as several people in 
Southern California, been nice 

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enough to be subjects for my 
methods section which is done 

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and whilst writing the full 
study fairly soon here, but, 

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yes, plus I'm gonna have a kid 
really shortly so that, you 

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know, they'll be different and 
we different, right? 

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Be different. 
Nathan, how is your training 

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going? 
Yeah, right now. 

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I'm not training for anything. 
I'm base just getting some Basin

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trying to wit, lift weights. 
A little bit more than I have 

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been, which my bottle. 
But like, what do I dig? 

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I gotta, I gotta Have your 
kettlebell and eyes you mad at 

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my house, but the clinic that I 
work in is a gym as well. 

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So I also have a full gym that I
can use when I'm at work. 

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So yeah, it's been, it's been 
good. 

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But my body's like, what is this
lifting thing? 

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So my body feels different when 
running right now. 

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But it's yeah, it's all good. 
But correct me for on both 

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Nathan and David ordered heavier
kettlebells and hopefully 

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starting to use them which I use
them. 

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I know there's like big big fans
around us. 

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It's just a really simple. 
Nice. 

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Heavy thing to occasion left, 
right? 

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You don't need that much. 
But, you know, you can make some

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really good changes. 
Changes in your, your 

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musculoskeletal system. 
But I'll tell it's good stuff. 

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All right, so let's get into 
this segment here. 

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Buy or sell, we're going to be 
talking again about different 

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Trends, philosophies ways, to 
think about shoes and the first 

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one we're going to talk about is
buy or sell shoes with 40 +. 

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Mm of Stack height. 
So when we say that, we mean 

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shoes again that have enough 
foam underneath where they're 

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you know, they're amount of foam
is more than 40 millimeters. 

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It's in the heel and David. 
Can you talk a little bit about 

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your thoughts on this buy or 
sell? 

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But also why 40. 
Mm is used for people who might 

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not know like why 40 mm that can
be arbitrary. 

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So why are we kind of talking 
about that number? 

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And what are your thoughts on 
it? 

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Yeah. 
So 40. 

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Mm, very arbitrary number. 
But that's a number that was 

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established by World Athletics 
to be legal in competition. 

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So that number wasn't really 
significant until about a couple

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of years ago. 
Now, our no one really cared 

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about the sack IV on 40 up until
that point, it's kind of like, 

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putting a big red button saying,
don't push the button. 

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Everyone decided they're going 
to push the button with that 

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said, what was the question 
again about the voice? 

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All right. 
Yes. 

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It's also why you're selling 
yourself selling my buying or 

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selling? 
Yeah, I think mine's a very 

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nuanced and I promise I won't do
this for every question, but I'm

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going to Bye for half of it and 
sell for half of it. 

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My main reason, I think it's a 
buy for shoes that help you with

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a little bit of up-tempo work, 
long runs efforts that might 

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save your legs a little bit in 
these big training Cycles, 

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especially for training for 
something like a marathon or 

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ultra marathon. 
I think there's a great area for

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that. 
She was like the Asics 

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souperblast, is one great 
example. 

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I've got it right here. and then
another one being the Adidas 

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Prime X, if your ankles can 
handle it, Those shoes have some

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pop to them. 
They have their relatively 

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lightweight for how much shoe 
there is. 

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I mean, they're really 
lightweight for how much shoe 

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there is and they can be 
wonderful training companions, 

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especially for some of those 
longer efforts where I sell is 

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actually in the daily training 
line of things. 

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I'm not Forum, I think when you 
go so high above the ground, I 

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actually wrote about this in a 
DP T section. 

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Recently talking about 
proprioception and intrinsic 

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musculature of the foot hips, 
knee, ankle, Well, everything is

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a stabilized. 
So much more and like maybe the 

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person feels fresh on some of 
those easy days, whereas, they 

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wouldn't have otherwise. 
But like, 40, mm is plenty of 

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foam. 
And I notice just anecdotally 

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speaking. 
I don't have any quantitative 

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numbers for this, but I've seen 
so much more foot problems over 

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the last year and a half and 
I've ever seen and it's almost 

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always associated with these 
super-high, compliant shoes. 

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And it's like, you get them out 
of it and you put them in 

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something like a Saucony ride or
Nike Pegasus. 

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Anything that's not A super high
compliance zoo and they end up 

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doing just fine. 
And it's, it's a small switch, 

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but it ends up not aggravating 
the foot as much because it 

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doesn't have to work as hard. 
Whether it's the foot hip knee 

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etcetera. 
I know a lot of people love 

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these shoes and I know it's in 
this far as the grander scheme 

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of the market. 
Most people are going to say 

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bye, but I feel like there's a 
Tipping Point for daily miles 

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now. 
What do you think? 

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I'm kind of in the same camp. 
I'm a pretty solid Buy. 

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I really enjoyed a lot of these 
shoes, the super blast, I mean, 

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I have 200 miles on this thing 
and I still haven't blown to the

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outsole. 
So I'm really enjoying the 

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miles. 
I've loved the the Nimbus 25 was

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really good. 
I think there's some things that

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need to change with the upper, 
but it's crazy to see Nimbus, 

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cumulus stuff like that. 
This that these, what should be 

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normal trainers. 
All of a sudden get up to super 

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plus stack Heights. 
Again, I find them comfortable. 

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They seem to be working really, 
really well for me. 

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But I'm still I think it's a 
cautious by the with remember, 

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these are tools and I find that 
when I trained in these too 

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much, I start craving something 
like ground feel and something a

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little bit lower. 
So I still walk almost 

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everywhere. 
My xero shoes. 

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I don't necessarily use them for
running right, but I do use them

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to kind of balance this devout 
so it is still a solid. 

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By for me it's just going to 
depend on the person. 

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It's not going to be a by for 
everyone. 

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Yeah and I'm hearing you guys, I
think I'm slightly on the 

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overall like sell side. 
Partially because I think some 

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of the, I mean, like what's our 
goal with, it is kind of my 

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question, right? 
So, like part of the stack, 

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height has been to take more 
advantage of the foam and to be 

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able to go through a higher 
amount of compliance and 

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resilience to get these like 
mechanical improvements. 

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That's where, like this High 
stack kind of started. 

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When it comes to like the 
performance side of things is 

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getting these get more stack 
underneath so you can really 

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compress and come out of the 
foam and it's like what do you 

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really need that for training? 
Like you were kind of both of 

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you guys are saying But also do 
we have any evidence to say that

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higher is better? 
And maybe these companies are 

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doing that research and they're 
seeing like, oh yeah. 

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When we do add 5, mm of Stack to
whatever or 10, we do get a 

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better economy benefit because 
of maybe a longer leg length, or

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we get more phone compliance or 
whatever it is. 

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But as of what I know based on 
what I've been able to see and 

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what we see is the public we you
know, I just don't see the point

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of it, I guess a little bit. 
That said, Matt I'm with you I 

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love the souperblast. 
I've got a ton of really good 

226
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:07,800
miles on that shoe. 
It's not that, I don't like it 

227
00:11:07,900 --> 00:11:11,600
but it also like ads for some 
shoes, like I think a good case 

228
00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,500
study is kind of the SC Trainer 
added a lot of weight to this 

229
00:11:14,500 --> 00:11:17,000
shoe and they came out with 
version 2 and they dip Back Down

230
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:20,100
Under the 40, so like they kind 
of did it once, they're like 

231
00:11:20,100 --> 00:11:21,300
actually we don't really need 
it. 

232
00:11:21,300 --> 00:11:23,800
Is that obviously they made a 
decision that they didn't need 

233
00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:25,600
it to be above there. 
So I think that's an interesting

234
00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:27,200
case study to bring something 
down. 

235
00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,100
Underneath, I'd like to 
reference, David gets all credit

236
00:11:31,100 --> 00:11:32,700
for this comment a couple weeks 
ago. 

237
00:11:32,900 --> 00:11:35,400
He was talking about, hey do we 
need to get even crazier? 

238
00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:37,900
Super Shoes? 
And he said, David correct me if

239
00:11:37,900 --> 00:11:40,000
I'm wrong, it's basically. 
Yeah, I don't think we need 

240
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:41,800
crazy advances. 
Right now, we just need to 

241
00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,700
refine what we have at the 
moment where it's like you're 

242
00:11:44,700 --> 00:11:47,400
skipping too far ahead. 
We've just gotten to the lot of 

243
00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:48,200
shoes. 
Come into 40. 

244
00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,000
Mm. 
Like I know we can talk to the 

245
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,300
Keanu. 
Just got to a 40. 

246
00:11:52,300 --> 00:11:54,700
Mm, he'll stack height. 
Right, so the shoes totally 

247
00:11:54,700 --> 00:11:56,600
changed. 
I think before we start going 

248
00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:58,900
beyond that, I think David was 
right going. 

249
00:11:58,900 --> 00:12:00,400
Why don't we refine where we 
are? 

250
00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:02,600
And I think the SEC trainer B2 
is a great example. 

251
00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,400
I Haven't tried it yet, but kind
of bringing that down and trying

252
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,800
to keep that weight still like 
within a, within a reasonable 

253
00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,200
level of ski. 
So once you start getting to two

254
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,200
massive, like the things just 
going to be clunky and heavy so 

255
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,700
it's kind of a balance so I 
think yeah, I think it's a kind 

256
00:12:18,700 --> 00:12:21,600
of still between it will depend 
on how its executed, but I'm 

257
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,200
curious to see how the market 
starts shifting, but so kudos to

258
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,000
David and I think that comment 
still really relevant of refine.

259
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,000
What you have first before you 
go crazy. 

260
00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,100
Yeah, and if and if somebody 
could come out and show me, Hey,

261
00:12:33,100 --> 00:12:37,400
here's the either physiological,
or recovery or whatever type 

262
00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,400
benefit or like decrease 
fatigue, it within a certain 

263
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,700
run, like, show me some benefit 
of this ink of increased stack. 

264
00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,100
Then sure I'd come on board but 
right now I don't I don't see 

265
00:12:47,100 --> 00:12:50,700
anything so I'm like let's I'll 
sell it and move on to 

266
00:12:50,700 --> 00:12:53,200
something, just do it doing well
with less. 

267
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,500
But it's not like 40 again. 40 
is this arbitrary number that 

268
00:12:56,500 --> 00:13:00,000
has been and maybe it. 
Maybe someone knows more than we

269
00:13:00,008 --> 00:13:01,300
do. 
That makes it feel less 

270
00:13:01,300 --> 00:13:05,600
arbitrary but it Definitely 
definitely has set a something 

271
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,400
for marketing to work off of it,
at least to say hey look at this

272
00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,800
shoe is illegal or whatever. 
So any other thoughts on this 

273
00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,100
one from you? 
You all, I do think you got to 

274
00:13:15,100 --> 00:13:17,700
be careful extremes. 
The prime X is very interesting 

275
00:13:17,700 --> 00:13:21,900
shoe and I am super excited to 
try version 2 because it looks 

276
00:13:21,900 --> 00:13:24,700
crazy and I don't have it. 
Nothing else to say about it. 

277
00:13:24,900 --> 00:13:27,800
That said, when you get up to 
those really high levels, you 

278
00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,600
got to be careful because there 
you can't stabilize it, right? 

279
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,300
So if you get to a certain 
point, you're risking Like 

280
00:13:33,300 --> 00:13:36,400
legitimate injuries like ankle 
sprains and problems like that. 

281
00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,100
So just because you get higher 
doesn't mean more protectionist.

282
00:13:40,100 --> 00:13:42,100
So there are some other risk 
factors to pay attention to. 

283
00:13:42,100 --> 00:13:45,100
So it's all again about 
balancing, all the components of

284
00:13:45,108 --> 00:13:46,200
the shoes, you have to be 
careful. 

285
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:50,200
I don't know if we really 
totally mastered that yet, 

286
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,000
including weight, so we'll see 
ya cool. 

287
00:13:54,100 --> 00:13:56,000
All right, so we have correct me
if I'm wrong. 

288
00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:00,600
That you were a what I sell. 
I was a cautious by a by. 

289
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,700
Yeah, I was a cell Dave. 
It was a buy-sell. 

290
00:14:03,900 --> 00:14:05,800
Yeah. 
So he's got a little bit of half

291
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:07,700
C so cool. 
I get oh I guess I'll go like 

292
00:14:07,900 --> 00:14:11,900
like 25%. 
Oh, nothing except all right. 

293
00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:13,300
Yes, all right. 
Bye. 

294
00:14:14,300 --> 00:14:17,400
All right, this is actually 
really hard for us because we 

295
00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,900
are pts and so everything has a 
stated said like Nuance but 

296
00:14:20,900 --> 00:14:25,000
we're going to try really hard 
to be to be dichotomous here 

297
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:26,700
because dichotomous thinking is 
the way to go. 

298
00:14:26,700 --> 00:14:27,600
That's good. 
Definitely. 

299
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,900
Yeah our students love that hot 
doesn't exist. 

300
00:14:30,700 --> 00:14:35,100
Okay so here we go by ourselves.
3D foot scanner is to help you 

301
00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:38,000
select the right shoe. 
Matt why don't you start? 

302
00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:43,500
That's a hard sell not just from
experience but also from the 

303
00:14:43,500 --> 00:14:46,000
evidence, right? 
You're trying a lot of these 3D 

304
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:47,900
foot scanner and somebody 
correct me if I'm wrong and 

305
00:14:47,900 --> 00:14:49,700
there's something new. 
But I've been working with these

306
00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:53,800
things since I was in college 
and they are static measurements

307
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,400
tools. 
They only look at what your foot

308
00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:00,100
is doing as you're standing 
which oftentimes doesn't relate 

309
00:15:00,100 --> 00:15:03,500
at all to what's happening in 
motion even during NG walking or

310
00:15:03,500 --> 00:15:05,700
running your foot is a dynamic 
structure. 

311
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,400
It changes volume. 
It changes shape. 

312
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,400
And it needs to do that for 
optimal function. 

313
00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,900
Your bones of your foot need to 
be able to move spread out to 

314
00:15:12,900 --> 00:15:16,900
all the stuff a 3D foot scanner 
doesn't do that. 

315
00:15:16,900 --> 00:15:19,500
It doesn't take into account 
personal Comfort which is one of

316
00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:23,100
the few things that we found 
that actually has like a big 

317
00:15:23,100 --> 00:15:26,700
impact on what act like, people 
finding shoes at work for them. 

318
00:15:26,700 --> 00:15:29,100
Like the Footwear Comfort scale,
like the Run cat stuff like 

319
00:15:29,100 --> 00:15:32,100
that. 
So it sounds good in theory. 

320
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,100
I think when actually less 
you're going to do one that 

321
00:15:35,100 --> 00:15:37,100
actually watch it, that gets you
in motion. 

322
00:15:37,100 --> 00:15:40,300
I the Hard Sell on these because
the evidence also shows they're 

323
00:15:40,900 --> 00:15:42,600
kind of not great for predicting
things. 

324
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,400
Actually not good at all. 
Yeah, David what do you think? 

325
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,500
I'm gonna say bye. 
Here's why go for it? 

326
00:15:47,500 --> 00:15:50,800
Why go for it? 
I'll take so taking a look at 

327
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,900
the reason why for a by on a 3D 
scanner is it can help guide you

328
00:15:53,900 --> 00:15:56,400
about what your foot looks like 
from a model. 

329
00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,200
Not necessarily Dynamic, not 
necessarily to choose a shoe 

330
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,500
based off of that model, but it 
gives you an idea. 

331
00:16:03,100 --> 00:16:05,600
Of a certain last type like 
maybe you didn't know your foot 

332
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:07,500
was really wide. 
Maybe didn't know. 

333
00:16:07,500 --> 00:16:09,500
It was really narrow. 
That doesn't mean that you're 

334
00:16:09,500 --> 00:16:12,100
going to go pick a narrow or 
wide shoe but at least it gives 

335
00:16:12,100 --> 00:16:13,600
you some information to go off 
of. 

336
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,900
So if you're someone that 
doesn't know anything about your

337
00:16:16,900 --> 00:16:19,600
foot, it might be nice to have a
little bit of guidance from that

338
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,000
realm and then have that open 
mind to go try those shoes. 

339
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,000
Find what's comfortable for you?
Make an educated decision on 

340
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,800
your shoe and no way. 
Am I saying? 

341
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,200
Because the scanner said, so 
that's why I'm buying this shoe.

342
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,900
It's Not a correlative or 
causative, you know type of 

343
00:16:35,900 --> 00:16:39,100
thing but you can use that as a 
piece of information to help 

344
00:16:39,100 --> 00:16:42,900
make an educated decision. 
So for me I think it's actually 

345
00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:48,700
a by but it does come with some,
some reservation. 

346
00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:51,800
And the reason why is because a 
lot of times they're going to 

347
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:53,500
say, well, your foot type looks 
like this. 

348
00:16:53,500 --> 00:16:55,700
Therefore you should be in a 
shoe like this. 

349
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,600
That's not what I'm saying. 
Do not do that. 

350
00:16:59,700 --> 00:17:02,900
I want just more. 
So for more information to make 

351
00:17:02,900 --> 00:17:05,400
an educated decision, you still 
got to try everything on. 

352
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:06,599
You still got to make sure it's 
comfortable. 

353
00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:08,200
He's still got to make sure it 
works with your mechanics. 

354
00:17:08,700 --> 00:17:10,599
Yeah. 
I think I'm kind of with David 

355
00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:13,400
there. 
I'm I was leaning towards by, as

356
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,800
well on this but not because I 
disagree with anything, that 

357
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,700
Matt said, I completely agree 
with everything there. 

358
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:25,000
I say by. 
If so, by this, if you live in a

359
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,900
town that has a local shoe store
that has one of these, I'm not 

360
00:17:28,900 --> 00:17:32,200
going to to sit there and say 
that stepping on this 3D scanner

361
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:36,600
to give you 10 shoes to try out 
first based on like maybe how 

362
00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,000
wide or narrow your foot is is 
going to hurt you. 

363
00:17:39,300 --> 00:17:42,800
I think it can give you at least
some somewhere to start if that 

364
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:44,900
3D and I guess I have less 
experience with these 3D 

365
00:17:44,900 --> 00:17:47,000
scanners. 
So met you can you can rebuke me

366
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,100
here but like thinking about, if
this 3D scanner says, oh, you 

367
00:17:50,100 --> 00:17:53,600
have pronation and you have a 
flat Arch and therefore, you 

368
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,900
need this sort of control. 
I would say sell on that. 

369
00:17:56,900 --> 00:18:00,300
I would buy on if this says, 
hey, you just A bigger volume 

370
00:18:00,300 --> 00:18:01,800
foot. 
Get a bigger shoe. 

371
00:18:01,900 --> 00:18:05,200
That that's where I would buy it
if it's trying to say what type 

372
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,900
of shoe you need underfoot I 
sell it 100%. 

373
00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:09,700
What do you? 
What's your name sir? 

374
00:18:09,900 --> 00:18:11,900
See that's the problem is a lot 
of these devices. 

375
00:18:11,900 --> 00:18:15,000
People will extrapolate things 
that you can't extrapolate like 

376
00:18:15,100 --> 00:18:17,700
oh you have a lower Arch 
therefore you need to have this 

377
00:18:17,700 --> 00:18:20,500
motion control she was like yeah
that's static foot measurements 

378
00:18:20,700 --> 00:18:23,700
are not correlated at all to 
what how your foot moves, right?

379
00:18:23,700 --> 00:18:25,000
You'll have somebody with a low 
Arch. 

380
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,900
That's extremely stiff. 
And rigid that if you post them 

381
00:18:27,900 --> 00:18:30,600
up is actually cause some Alms 
and vice versa, right? 

382
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:32,800
Where you have somebody with a 
very high arch but it is very 

383
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:34,600
flexible and have poor control 
over it. 

384
00:18:35,100 --> 00:18:38,600
So I think yeah it depends on 
how using the problem is most of

385
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,600
the time that is how it's used 
is oh your foot fits is shaped 

386
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,600
exactly like this. 
So here are the only kind of 

387
00:18:44,608 --> 00:18:49,100
shoes you can wear or you have a
low arts or a this you'd have to

388
00:18:49,100 --> 00:18:52,400
have these. 
Whereas there it's a lot more 

389
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:56,700
complicated than what just your 
foot shape is because how a like

390
00:18:56,700 --> 00:18:59,100
mobile is your foot. 
Can you adjust into this shoe? 

391
00:18:59,300 --> 00:19:01,900
What's your, how sensitive is 
your nervous system at that 

392
00:19:01,900 --> 00:19:03,300
point? 
Can you handle something 

393
00:19:03,300 --> 00:19:04,900
pressing into your arch? 
Can you not? 

394
00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:06,700
I think there's a lot more 
nuanced. 

395
00:19:06,700 --> 00:19:09,400
And if you're going to put the 
shoe on any way to learn this, 

396
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,100
like, why do you my arguing? 
Why do you need this? 

397
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:14,100
I'm saying is for running 
stores, right? 

398
00:19:14,100 --> 00:19:16,900
Why would you buy this thing? 
That's often tens of thousands 

399
00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:20,200
of dollars when you could 
probably be teaching people a 

400
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:24,200
deeper lesson about their foot, 
but I do hear David on and 

401
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,100
Nathan. 
Like you know, if you didn't 

402
00:19:26,100 --> 00:19:28,600
know your foot was a why that 
might be a nice piece of 

403
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:30,400
information. 
Oh yeah, you really shouldn't be

404
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,200
buying these narrow shoes and 
that by explain what your foots 

405
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,000
going numb. 
So I can see that, but I'm Still

406
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:40,200
A Hard Sell on these things. 
Yeah, and I guess if I changed 

407
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,600
my perspective. 
So again my yet, my by was, if 

408
00:19:43,700 --> 00:19:46,200
you're someone who has a local 
shoe store who has it and it 

409
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,600
tells you if your Chute, if your
foots big or small, then I'm 

410
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:51,300
like, sure by go use it, it's 
free. 

411
00:19:51,300 --> 00:19:53,000
Like that's part of their 
services for you. 

412
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,000
If I'm a shoe store wondering, 
should I buy a 3D scanner? 

413
00:19:57,300 --> 00:20:01,100
I would say sell like, Don't buy
that there's better Investments 

414
00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:03,900
of your time through education 
for your staff and like lots of 

415
00:20:03,900 --> 00:20:06,800
other things then I'm a cell. 
So I guess depending on the 

416
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:08,300
lens, I put on it, it's a buy or
sell. 

417
00:20:08,300 --> 00:20:10,400
Does that does that kind of make
sense in lineup. 

418
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:14,300
And again, also if you're new to
running and you rely on a 3D 

419
00:20:14,300 --> 00:20:16,900
scan to tell you, the type of 
shoe you should have 

420
00:20:16,900 --> 00:20:19,000
categorically. 
I also sell that idea. 

421
00:20:19,300 --> 00:20:21,800
I agree, I think it's a piece of
Imaging. 

422
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,500
I look at it kind of similar to 
an MRI in that it's a static 

423
00:20:24,500 --> 00:20:29,100
image of something and there's 
much more to it, right? 

424
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,200
And just because Imaging says, 
one thing functionally could be 

425
00:20:32,208 --> 00:20:34,800
very different, but it's 
information. 

426
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,000
And it's something that we know 
that we didn't know before. 

427
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,800
Yeah. 
Outside of any clinical, testing

428
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:41,900
Orthopedic stuff. 
Yeah. 

429
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:47,800
Yeah, Matt call me old-school. 
This is where I get irritated. 

430
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,000
I was in a running sore, not 
close, not Monrovia. 

431
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,300
So not snail's pace, but I was 
in another running story, just 

432
00:20:54,300 --> 00:20:56,600
kind of checking things out one 
day and they're using the foot 

433
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:58,500
scanning stuff. 
And I asked the person who was 

434
00:20:58,500 --> 00:21:01,200
doing this going You know what a
Brannock Device is. 

435
00:21:02,100 --> 00:21:05,100
And he had no idea what that 
was. 

436
00:21:05,100 --> 00:21:07,300
Which is for, do you to know 
what a Brannock Device? 

437
00:21:07,300 --> 00:21:11,800
Has know that you guys. 
So you probably seen one. 

438
00:21:11,900 --> 00:21:15,500
I promise you, it's when you 
went into the old rut like, oh 

439
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,500
yeah, that little metal, that is
called a brand device, right? 

440
00:21:20,500 --> 00:21:23,100
Oh, yeah. 
Those it that has with, on it. 

441
00:21:23,100 --> 00:21:27,600
It has length on it, you know, 
how much they cost $65 on 

442
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:29,900
Amazon, you know why? 
Because I just Just checked. 

443
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:36,600
So I feel like part lines are. 
Sometimes you get everything. 

444
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:38,500
Yeah. 
That that see, sometimes you can

445
00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:41,500
get too much, too much data. 
And I think sometimes the puts I

446
00:21:41,500 --> 00:21:43,100
mean for the data nerd. 
Great. 

447
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,600
But I think for the newer 
Runner, the average Runner it's 

448
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,800
going to be very overwhelming, 
when really you go. 

449
00:21:47,900 --> 00:21:50,600
Hey, what fits comfortably on 
your foot, what? 

450
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:52,800
Feels good. 
Get running in and get moving in

451
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,000
it because we know that tends to
be more Associated, more 

452
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,000
correlated with how is it 
actually going to function on 

453
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,100
your foot? 
So I had swam past all hard. 

454
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,700
I just, I find this interesting 
that it's coming from the 

455
00:22:02,700 --> 00:22:04,500
biggest data nerd on our team, 
right? 

456
00:22:04,700 --> 00:22:07,500
I say that as somebody who you 
got to know when data is 

457
00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:10,600
appropriate, when it's not that 
I'm a partner in. 

458
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,700
Yeah, I'm hearing. 
Yeah, I just pissed off like 

459
00:22:13,700 --> 00:22:16,400
tons of running sores that have 
ever had was goes against know. 

460
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,100
I know I think I think art one 
of our I think we're all like 

461
00:22:20,100 --> 00:22:22,600
indecent agreement here. 
It's just the Nuance of our 

462
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,100
takes in the perspective you 
bring to it buys or sells it and

463
00:22:26,100 --> 00:22:30,600
it's just how is the data 
utilized like We know I've not 

464
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,800
to go way off on tangents but we
know that the outcomes for 

465
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,900
people with low back pain who 
get Imaging are worse than for 

466
00:22:35,900 --> 00:22:37,900
those who don't. 
So if you have low back pain, 

467
00:22:37,900 --> 00:22:41,600
you go get an MRI your chance of
positive outcomes in the future 

468
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,100
long-term are worse than if you 
didn't get the MRI. 

469
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:49,200
So, like, we know that data and 
information can actually worsen 

470
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:50,900
your situation. 
That's kind of what you're 

471
00:22:50,900 --> 00:22:53,200
saying, Matt, and it really 
depends on who's coming through 

472
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,400
your door. 
What resources are available and

473
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,500
we love how working with and 
trying to help. 

474
00:22:57,500 --> 00:22:59,100
That's one of our missions 
trying to help running shoes. 

475
00:22:59,300 --> 00:23:02,000
I was like really do a good job 
with what they love to do. 

476
00:23:02,300 --> 00:23:05,600
And the best way to do that is 
not through 3D foot scanner but 

477
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,600
if you're a consumer and you're 
curious and your store has one, 

478
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,100
it's free to you and it's not 
going to bug you one way or 

479
00:23:11,108 --> 00:23:12,600
another and you're going to get 
the comfortable shoe. 

480
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:13,800
Anyway. 
What the heck? 

481
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,000
Like, go let it tell you a 
couple shoes that you may not 

482
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,000
have thought about trying. 
So this is a good one. 

483
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,500
Anything else before we move on 
great, I'm gonna take that as a 

484
00:23:22,508 --> 00:23:24,100
no. 
So now this next one we're going

485
00:23:24,100 --> 00:23:26,000
to be talking about mid souls a 
little bit. 

486
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,900
So a big Trend that we've been 
seeing is the introduction of 

487
00:23:29,900 --> 00:23:35,400
different types of Foams. 
So we're seeing pebax or P --ba 

488
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:40,200
based Foams we're seeing Eva 
Foams that are infused with some

489
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:45,300
sort of nitrogen or whatever. 
So the buyer cell is that we 

490
00:23:45,300 --> 00:23:49,600
should abandon Eva and go all 
the way to just pebax in our 

491
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,500
trainers in everything because 
of the improved properties in 

492
00:23:53,500 --> 00:23:57,300
terms of energy returns. 
So buyer sell abandoning Eva, 

493
00:23:57,700 --> 00:24:01,700
I'm gonna go out there and say 
so I've got a couple of reasons 

494
00:24:01,700 --> 00:24:05,500
for that. 
One is as these technological 

495
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,900
advances continue to grow. 
So does the cost of these shoes 

496
00:24:10,100 --> 00:24:11,900
if something is already 
established and easy to 

497
00:24:11,900 --> 00:24:15,800
manufacture and it's already 
proven to be relatively good, 

498
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,900
and I keeps the cost for shoes 
down that gives the options for 

499
00:24:19,900 --> 00:24:23,500
so many more people. 
So I think just for that reason 

500
00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:26,500
alone having Eva options are 
totally worth it. 

501
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:32,200
Other reason being is Is why I'm
a blinking. 

502
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,000
I was about to go on a much 
larger rant there. 

503
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,200
Oh but some people also just 
from a material standpoint are 

504
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,100
sensitive to different kinds of 
materials and it opens up the 

505
00:24:43,100 --> 00:24:44,900
amount of options available for 
people. 

506
00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:49,000
So if you're not good with soft 
compliant Foams and you like 

507
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:53,100
something a little bit firmer 
such as an Eva or even a TPU 

508
00:24:53,100 --> 00:24:56,600
midsole in some cases, by all 
means you should have access to 

509
00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:02,400
be able to run in those shoes. 
And I think by completely going 

510
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,800
to the pebax and just saying, 
this is a superior material. 

511
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,300
We're only going to use this. 
It's just like dancing on any 

512
00:25:08,300 --> 00:25:10,300
extreme. 
I don't think it's a good move. 

513
00:25:11,500 --> 00:25:14,600
Yeah, I think I'm gonna, I'm 
gonna agree with you on this and

514
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,500
cut and sell this one, too. 
And maybe the question is too 

515
00:25:17,500 --> 00:25:19,300
easy. 
It is like say totally abandoned

516
00:25:19,300 --> 00:25:22,800
something, but I totally 
resonate with the idea about 

517
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,800
cost. 
The other thing that we're 

518
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,900
seeing for the companies that 
are doing trying to create 

519
00:25:28,900 --> 00:25:32,800
sustainable sustainably produced
shoes with different materials, 

520
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,300
they're not using p --ba and 
pebax. 

521
00:25:35,500 --> 00:25:38,400
And I don't know the details 
about why those decisions are 

522
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,100
made. 
But we're seeing shoes coming by

523
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,900
It has to be Max. 
I'll baste PDX Houma, how much 

524
00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:47,400
bio basis we should have Bach on
here for, like, what is there? 

525
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,600
Like one right is the fast are 
the only one that uses the 

526
00:25:50,608 --> 00:25:52,400
bio-based. 
It's a car. 

527
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,900
Others may be wrong. 
Yeah, there's a couple others 

528
00:25:56,900 --> 00:26:00,800
are not to interrupt but I think
but sustainable shoes like 

529
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,800
created us to sustainably drives
up cost because of the cost of 

530
00:26:04,808 --> 00:26:07,800
production then if you add on 
their the, the pebax and that 

531
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,200
does to, I will say when it 
comes to pebax, the one shoe 

532
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:15,800
that has kind of changed How I 
think about pebax is the Elliott

533
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,200
Runner, which is wicked 
expensive, but the one from 

534
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,300
track Smith because that is a 
firmer flavor of peva. 

535
00:26:22,300 --> 00:26:28,100
Like I haven't ran in a shoe not
like rigid firm, like the 361 

536
00:26:28,100 --> 00:26:31,300
flame but kind of just, like, a 
more controlled feels more 

537
00:26:31,300 --> 00:26:33,700
traditional. 
It doesn't really feel like like

538
00:26:33,700 --> 00:26:35,500
a peevish. 
Ooh, it feels like a normal 

539
00:26:35,500 --> 00:26:38,100
running shoe, but in theory of 
the properties are a little bit 

540
00:26:38,100 --> 00:26:40,600
more robust in terms of 
compliance and resilience. 

541
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,700
So that one kind of changed my 
mind from like a performance. 

542
00:26:42,900 --> 00:26:45,400
Aspect of like, oh yeah, you 
could have a nice training 

543
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,600
peeve, actually, that doesn't 
feel totally unstable or wonky. 

544
00:26:48,700 --> 00:26:52,600
But I do think from a having an 
affordable shoe heavy ones that 

545
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,400
just feel more controlled. 
Even though like I just said 

546
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,400
that, you probably could achieve
that with P --ba. 

547
00:26:58,700 --> 00:27:01,700
I still just, I don't know, I 
don't see the need to abandon 

548
00:27:01,700 --> 00:27:05,500
something that that is still 
functioning and still Falls in 

549
00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:09,600
from a, from what we know about 
injury and stiffness of shoes, 

550
00:27:10,100 --> 00:27:12,700
you can still create quality 
properties through Eva. 

551
00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:16,100
So far, so I'm not ready to sell
it yet. 

552
00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:18,900
I'm not ready to by getting rid 
of it. 

553
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,800
Yeah I'm on this in the same 
camp as old as both of you when 

554
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,200
it comes to like completely 
abandoning. 

555
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:30,100
I think I'm a definite sell on 
that that these Foams all have 

556
00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:32,600
their place. 
Do I think if you're going to 

557
00:27:32,608 --> 00:27:35,200
create for the mean for the 
majority of people, if you're 

558
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,100
going to create the highest 
level, racing shoe, do you 

559
00:27:37,100 --> 00:27:38,700
probably need to be using this? 
Yes. 

560
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,600
Is there going to be something 
probably after pebax? 

561
00:27:41,900 --> 00:27:43,800
Probably, right. 
Does that mean we should 

562
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,200
necessarily abandoned it? 
No, unless there's something 

563
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,500
that's its Causing like cancer 
or something like that. 

564
00:27:48,500 --> 00:27:50,400
So that's, that's probably the 
one exception I don't. 

565
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,700
I'm not saying that I don't 
know, but I think I totally 

566
00:27:53,700 --> 00:27:58,600
agree that there are ways to 
still create great performance 

567
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,600
and training shoes, and there's 
also going to be plenty of 

568
00:28:00,608 --> 00:28:02,100
people who may not respond to 
this. 

569
00:28:02,100 --> 00:28:04,700
Now, that said, Nathan got 
brought up a good point is there

570
00:28:04,700 --> 00:28:08,100
are pebax Foams that you can 
modify the density and still 

571
00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:10,700
make something a little bit more
stable, a little bit firmer. 

572
00:28:11,900 --> 00:28:15,400
That said, I think you can also 
do that with EVA foam for Less 

573
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,400
cost. 
And especially in today's 

574
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,800
market, looking for things that 
are also affordable is really 

575
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,500
key. 
Because I mean, I'll say it as 

576
00:28:22,500 --> 00:28:26,000
fun as the issues are some of 
the costs are just out of this 

577
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,000
world and I say that we get a 
lot of shoes sent to us or 

578
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,500
fortunate, but these two are 
going to make fun of me. 

579
00:28:31,700 --> 00:28:35,000
I still go by things that don't,
I'll either that don't get sent 

580
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,900
to us or at least don't think 
they will. 

581
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,200
I won't name any thing and then 
I'm sitting there like spending 

582
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,100
several hundred dollars. 
I kick myself going. 

583
00:28:42,100 --> 00:28:45,400
Oh gosh, why I do this? 
So yeah, I know that they are. 

584
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:50,100
It's and and the time What last 
literally last week he says, 

585
00:28:50,100 --> 00:28:52,800
look what just showed up at the 
same time. 

586
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,300
I got an email that said we are 
sending this shoe on the way to 

587
00:28:56,300 --> 00:28:57,800
Matt. 
Here's his tracking number and 

588
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,800
it was the same shoe that you 
just bought. 

589
00:28:59,900 --> 00:29:02,900
I didn't like on a story. 
Did your patients. 

590
00:29:03,100 --> 00:29:05,400
Also, you talked about getting 
shoes said to us sometime, like 

591
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,100
there's a reason we have these 
weird looking shoe walls behind 

592
00:29:08,100 --> 00:29:12,000
us and it's kind of embarrassing
but the amount of shoes that we 

593
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:12,900
have. 
But what? 

594
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,800
Yeah to be fair I have bought 
many of these and it's it can 

595
00:29:17,100 --> 00:29:19,700
Quite a chunk of change, right? 
A lot of times I buy that 

596
00:29:19,700 --> 00:29:22,500
because I want to share this 
information want to test it. 

597
00:29:22,500 --> 00:29:24,000
I want to share with other 
people that's why this whole 

598
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,600
website then this thing started.
But yeah, I think with how crazy

599
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:33,200
expensive things are. 
We're definitely in a privileged

600
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,400
position to be able to get a lot
of this stuff and review it with

601
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,000
out at without paying. 
So, I think from a cost 

602
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,700
perspective, I think it's still 
really important to consider a 

603
00:29:43,708 --> 00:29:46,200
variety of homes, especially if 
they are cheaper, right? 

604
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,300
Because that means Means there's
going to be more, people are 

605
00:29:48,300 --> 00:29:50,800
going to be able to engage get 
active and participate in 

606
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,000
running. 
So I'm definitely a hard sell on

607
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,700
abandoning Eva, even though I 
sometimes give it a hard time 

608
00:29:56,700 --> 00:29:59,800
just because it improves access,
right? 

609
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:05,100
If we can keep costs low, 
alright, our next one buy or 

610
00:30:05,100 --> 00:30:10,700
sell plated training shoes. 
So, there's a lot of these out 

611
00:30:10,700 --> 00:30:12,200
there. 
I've got a couple sitting here, 

612
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:18,000
everything from the Propel 
version for to the The deviate 

613
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:23,700
Nitro from Puma you have you 
know, even the the Endorphin 

614
00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:27,200
Speed 3 which a little bit 
different categorically. 

615
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,600
You look at all the different 
Skechers trainers out there. 

616
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:34,100
Yep the ride 11 from Skechers, 
you have a lot of different 

617
00:30:34,100 --> 00:30:40,200
plated training shoes out there,
so buy or sell played a 

618
00:30:40,208 --> 00:30:44,200
trainers. 
Matt, you want to start? 

619
00:30:48,500 --> 00:30:51,000
Do they is it specifically 
training or can you be using 

620
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,100
like, workouts? 
Like, can we clarify the words a

621
00:30:54,108 --> 00:30:56,100
little bit more. 
We just like hard daily 

622
00:30:56,100 --> 00:30:58,700
training. 
No, tell me I'm takes only go. 

623
00:31:02,100 --> 00:31:05,100
I mean, a lot of those shoes. 
I really like, you know, and 

624
00:31:05,100 --> 00:31:06,400
they've been really, really 
good. 

625
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,100
The problem is, it depends on if
you start getting too stiff 

626
00:31:09,100 --> 00:31:13,600
that's going to be 
uncomfortable, is the question. 

627
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,700
Only plated shoes, like yes or 
no, plated training shoes, just 

628
00:31:17,700 --> 00:31:20,500
the Concept in general, it 
doesn't mean that it's replacing

629
00:31:20,500 --> 00:31:24,300
normal shoes, Okay? 
So if it's not replacing normal 

630
00:31:24,300 --> 00:31:28,900
training shoes than I am a I'm a
by with a little contingency 

631
00:31:28,900 --> 00:31:32,200
here that I don't think you 
should be light and just like 

632
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,900
any buying things. 
Yeah. 

633
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:37,500
Did I use that word right? 
That's fine. 

634
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,900
Yeah. 
So I think I don't I wouldn't 

635
00:31:39,900 --> 00:31:42,200
want to be in one of these all 
the time. 

636
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,100
Personally, right. 
We know from the evidence, one 

637
00:31:44,100 --> 00:31:47,300
of the few things that reduces 
injury risk is having a variety 

638
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,400
of Straining. 
I think that means also having a

639
00:31:49,408 --> 00:31:51,700
variety of stimuli, write 
something stiffer. 

640
00:31:51,700 --> 00:31:53,500
Something about flexible. 
Again, it depends on what you 

641
00:31:53,500 --> 00:31:59,800
can afford, but I don't think I 
would do it all the time if it's

642
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:01,400
really stiff. 
Like, I know people gave me a 

643
00:32:01,408 --> 00:32:04,100
really hard time because I 
messed up the plant length in 

644
00:32:04,100 --> 00:32:07,100
the, the deviate Nitro to on my 
review. 

645
00:32:07,500 --> 00:32:10,300
But I wouldn't want to train in 
that shoe all the time. 

646
00:32:10,300 --> 00:32:13,200
It's really stiff, despite not 
having a full length play. 

647
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,100
I found that really stiff the 
magic speed similar I've loved 

648
00:32:16,100 --> 00:32:17,800
doing workouts. 
I've loved doing some up-tempo. 

649
00:32:17,900 --> 00:32:19,200
Oh stuff. 
But I wouldn't want to get all 

650
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:25,400
my daily training while so I'm a
by but I was still probably 

651
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,100
wouldn't use this type of 
training shoe all the time. 

652
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,800
Just as a warning. 
I agree with Matt I don't buy 

653
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,800
I'ma buy because I think plates 
can have a place in the 

654
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,100
development of some of these 
shoes. 

655
00:32:37,100 --> 00:32:39,800
The one that I think of 
specifically for me is the 

656
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,800
Skechers, right? 
11 or go run, right 11, which 

657
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,500
the review should be coming out 
very shortly. 

658
00:32:45,500 --> 00:32:50,800
If not by the time this airs. 
They're using a new midsole 

659
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:55,800
called hyper burst ice and let 
me pull that out here. 

660
00:32:56,100 --> 00:32:58,500
So I mean, it looks like a 
regular hyper burst but this 

661
00:32:58,500 --> 00:33:02,500
foam is so much softer than the 
other versions of hyper burst 

662
00:33:02,500 --> 00:33:06,400
that have come out before this. 
And I find that that for 

663
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,400
footplate they do have actually 
to stabilize that for foot a 

664
00:33:09,408 --> 00:33:13,200
little bit for me. 
And I almost wish it was full 

665
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,900
length where it just stabilize 
that claps shoes. 

666
00:33:16,900 --> 00:33:17,800
A little unstable. 
Yeah. 

667
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:19,900
A little bit unstable through 
the heel and mid-foot. 

668
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,000
With that said, it's still a fun
shooter run and I still like the

669
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,400
shoe, but I think it's one of 
those shoes where I almost wish 

670
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,400
there was a plate. 
I mean there is a plate but only

671
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,100
in the forefoot. 
Like I almost wish it was longer

672
00:33:31,700 --> 00:33:34,300
and so for shoes like that, I 
can totally see it. 

673
00:33:34,300 --> 00:33:38,300
Imagine having the SC Trainer 
without a plate, right? 

674
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,400
Like I think there's a time and 
place for these types of shoes 

675
00:33:42,500 --> 00:33:46,700
and I think it does create a 
variety of different stimuli for

676
00:33:46,700 --> 00:33:51,300
an individual to run in. 
And I normally lean towards 

677
00:33:51,300 --> 00:33:53,400
plated options. 
Whether it's pebax, carbon 

678
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,700
whatever I usually do Reserve 
those for more speed efforts. 

679
00:33:57,300 --> 00:34:01,300
But for shoes, like the right 
11, that is a daily trainer. 

680
00:34:01,700 --> 00:34:03,300
That is a shoe. 
I like doing daily miles. 

681
00:34:03,300 --> 00:34:06,000
And if I'm on the road and I 
actually like having that plate 

682
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,100
in there, it doesn't. 
Stiffen it up a whole lot 

683
00:34:08,100 --> 00:34:09,300
because it's only a four foot 
plate. 

684
00:34:09,300 --> 00:34:12,000
So there's still some 
flexibility to the platform, but

685
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:13,800
I almost wish that plate was 
even longer. 

686
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:22,100
So, for that reason, I'm a bye. 
Yeah, I am also a by if so, it's

687
00:34:22,100 --> 00:34:26,800
a by, if it's done for a reason.
I think that right now plates 

688
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,400
are the Hot Topic even though 
they're the thing that do it 

689
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,199
does one of the least amounts of
things when it comes to 

690
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:35,300
Performance, but it just gets 
called as the reason that like, 

691
00:34:35,300 --> 00:34:37,100
oh, it's a plate, so it's going 
to be faster. 

692
00:34:37,100 --> 00:34:38,800
It's going to be better. 
And that's just, we just know. 

693
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,699
That's not the case. 
Not just from our heads. 

694
00:34:41,699 --> 00:34:44,500
But that's they've when they 
study plates, plates, contribute

695
00:34:44,500 --> 00:34:46,800
less than the other stuff. 
Not what? 

696
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:47,900
This topic. 
Is about. 

697
00:34:47,900 --> 00:34:51,800
So I buy the idea of a plated a 
plated trainer if it's done for 

698
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,199
a specific reason, David, you 
gave a great answer. 

699
00:34:54,199 --> 00:34:57,000
If you have a really soft 
midsole, I'd even put, like, you

700
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,900
know, the endorphins speed in 
that category, I couldn't run in

701
00:34:59,900 --> 00:35:02,200
the first two versions because 
the plate that was in, it didn't

702
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:06,000
stabilize that softer pebax film
enough, they widen the plate to 

703
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,800
go out both sides of the version
3, I have a great time running 

704
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,500
in the shoe now so they put it 
in for a purpose, which is to 

705
00:35:12,500 --> 00:35:17,000
stabilize the platform or you 
talked about the SC Pacer. 

706
00:35:17,300 --> 00:35:21,000
New Balance, inner third, read 
it to train her the Pacer. 

707
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:22,700
I feel like I could run on 
thought of plate. 

708
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:23,800
Sure sorry. 
Yeah. 

709
00:35:23,900 --> 00:35:26,200
Ooh, yeah, trainer sorry. 
Yeah. 

710
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,500
Like, you just need something to
stabilize it. 

711
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,000
I, there are some shoes I'm 
going to continue on the 

712
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,900
Skechers one. 
I think sometimes they throw 

713
00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:36,100
plates into shoes that don't 
need plates. 

714
00:35:36,300 --> 00:35:40,000
One of them being the Reiser 
excess in the Reiser excess to, 

715
00:35:40,100 --> 00:35:41,600
they put this super flimsy 
plate. 

716
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,600
That you can't feel anything 
thinking back. 

717
00:35:43,700 --> 00:35:45,000
Oh man. 
I don't even know if I remember 

718
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,000
the name of the shoe but it was 
51. 

719
00:35:48,100 --> 00:35:52,400
And it was like, their hybrid 
St. 

720
00:35:52,500 --> 00:35:56,100
And it had this plane. 
I could even feel I'm Ryan's, I 

721
00:35:56,100 --> 00:35:59,000
could play. 
But I like the feel the plate, 

722
00:35:59,300 --> 00:36:02,100
and the razor Elite that you 
couldn't. 

723
00:36:02,100 --> 00:36:03,900
You said, you could feel the 
play Dave, when you really 

724
00:36:03,900 --> 00:36:07,300
pounded into the Razor Leaf, but
like, if a plates just in there 

725
00:36:07,300 --> 00:36:09,400
to be marketing, I'm a huge sell
on that. 

726
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,400
I think it's got to be for the 
purpose of stabilizing, the 

727
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:12,700
shoe. 
The other thing that I like 

728
00:36:12,700 --> 00:36:16,400
about having like typical 
trainers, like, even the, the 

729
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,700
propel Um, having a plate with 
some really good amount of 

730
00:36:20,700 --> 00:36:26,100
stiffness or the deviate is for 
people who have those issues 

731
00:36:26,100 --> 00:36:28,900
with their first toe joint and 
they don't want to go run in 

732
00:36:28,900 --> 00:36:31,400
like a super shoe. 
That's really stiff and plated 

733
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,600
but they just, they need 
something that prevents 

734
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,400
extension but don't want to go 
get like custom orthotics that 

735
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,200
have you know, rigid piece out 
of the first Ray. 

736
00:36:39,900 --> 00:36:43,000
I like having training options 
that are plated for people who 

737
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,700
sit in that category that said, 
there are some other shoes that 

738
00:36:45,700 --> 00:36:47,100
don't have plates that serve the
same. 

739
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,200
I'm purpose. 
Like the Endorphin shift, it has

740
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,300
enough of a 4-foot rocker and is
enough foam. 

741
00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:57,600
That it's pretty stiff, but I do
like having pleaded options for 

742
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,400
for people who need that kind of
help that said you do have to 

743
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,500
make sure that the rocker and 
everything lines up with your 

744
00:37:05,500 --> 00:37:09,000
foot length and mechanics and 
all that kind of stuff, and make

745
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:10,700
sure that it's not working 
against you, but it's working 

746
00:37:10,700 --> 00:37:13,400
with you. 
I also like somebody asked in 

747
00:37:13,408 --> 00:37:16,100
the beginning. 
If it was abandoning all normal 

748
00:37:16,100 --> 00:37:18,600
Trainers for the sake of He 
plated, then. 

749
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,300
I wouldn't be in on that, but 
the fact of having them as 

750
00:37:21,300 --> 00:37:23,000
options. 
I don't, I don't dislike, but 

751
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,700
it's got to be for a purpose. 
And if it's not for a purpose, 

752
00:37:25,700 --> 00:37:29,000
and it's not obvious than I'm a 
cell on it. 

753
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:33,100
But overall, I'm a by of having 
surprisingly by it, having 

754
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,400
played it, played it trainers 
out there because I think I'm 

755
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,800
pretty skeptical of just 
throwing plates and everything, 

756
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,900
but if it's for a purpose, I can
understand why anything else. 

757
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,100
I think I was great. 
It's Gotta Have a purpose. 

758
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,600
They can work really well for 
people that need Stiffness. 

759
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,300
Because we do that that it's the
plates or rods, or whatever. 

760
00:37:51,300 --> 00:37:54,500
You're adding is really just a 
stiffening agent for the shoe 

761
00:37:54,500 --> 00:37:56,800
and some people do really well 
and she's stiff shoes and some 

762
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:58,400
people don't. 
So if you're somebody that does 

763
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,500
well on them, that might be 
something, you naturally, 

764
00:38:00,500 --> 00:38:02,500
gravitate towards versus 
somebody that if you do not, 

765
00:38:02,500 --> 00:38:05,500
hey, this might be something you
want to avoid, but again, it's 

766
00:38:05,500 --> 00:38:06,800
going to vary depending on the 
person. 

767
00:38:07,100 --> 00:38:09,400
Alright next, buyer cell. 
Oh David. 

768
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,000
You have something. 
I'd only thing I'd add is, I 

769
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:12,500
wouldn't mind. 
Another pair of 360. 

770
00:38:12,500 --> 00:38:13,900
One pays for us to use. 
That's all. 

771
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,100
This is our only going to, 
you're going to find. 

772
00:38:17,300 --> 00:38:19,500
Maybe on eBay and now that was a
short-lived shoe. 

773
00:38:19,500 --> 00:38:21,700
I actually liked that one. 
That was they came out with one 

774
00:38:21,700 --> 00:38:23,100
version. 
It was one of those worries that

775
00:38:23,100 --> 00:38:24,700
I put it on. 
I was like, I know this is not 

776
00:38:24,700 --> 00:38:27,400
for everybody, this is 
definitely not for everybody but

777
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,500
I like it. 
I raised a 5-mile race in that 

778
00:38:30,500 --> 00:38:34,400
shoe, the week before like a 
half, marathon is kind of like a

779
00:38:34,700 --> 00:38:37,300
tune-up race and I ran like six 
30s which was like my best 

780
00:38:37,300 --> 00:38:39,100
5-mile race up to that point in 
my life. 

781
00:38:39,100 --> 00:38:41,200
So I pr did that she wants which
felt pretty cool. 

782
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,100
And they say and I had a half 
size up, so it felt huge, it was

783
00:38:46,100 --> 00:38:47,900
just weird anyway. 
All right, here we go. 

784
00:38:47,900 --> 00:38:51,100
To, I'm getting some love here 
to Roco. 

785
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:55,800
We do need the new taroko. 
We got to get that on your feet.

786
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,500
David, we do. 
Okay, the next one buy or sell 

787
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,400
matching foot type or amount of 
dynamic pronation. 

788
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,300
So watching it and movement to 
shoot type. 

789
00:39:07,300 --> 00:39:09,600
So this happens often again in 
running shoe stores, where 

790
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,700
somebody might have you walk and
they look at how your foot is 

791
00:39:12,700 --> 00:39:15,900
moving and then they recommend a
type of shoe based on on 

792
00:39:15,900 --> 00:39:22,500
watching you walk. 
So buy or sell that idea. so, I 

793
00:39:22,500 --> 00:39:27,000
myself, I'm a cell to I'm a cell
even when we look at it from 

794
00:39:27,700 --> 00:39:32,500
biomechanics standpoint client 
is quoted this many many many 

795
00:39:32,500 --> 00:39:36,700
times that even if you post a 
shoe no matter what you do, like

796
00:39:36,700 --> 00:39:38,500
the foots going to do whatever 
it wants. 

797
00:39:38,500 --> 00:39:42,000
Anyways so I think taking the 
shoes and looking at the little 

798
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,800
details and what works for your 
own individual by Mike 

799
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,900
biomechanics not because of what
your pronation is but because of

800
00:39:48,900 --> 00:39:53,400
how you actually respond to the 
shoe I think is a much better 

801
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,000
thing to go off of that 
subjective. 

802
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,700
Feeling of what you feel, not? 
What something is telling you. 

803
00:39:59,700 --> 00:40:03,600
What your naked eye is telling 
you, yeah, or even quantitative 

804
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,800
data for that matter because if 
she tells you that you're more 

805
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,900
efficient, but you feel like 
crap running in it, are you 

806
00:40:09,908 --> 00:40:13,600
going to run in that shoe? 
Like I remember I forgot who it 

807
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,200
was. 
I want to say, I want to say it 

808
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,300
was kenenisa. 
Bekele, actually who had said 

809
00:40:19,300 --> 00:40:22,200
the kale a references. 
I think it was Has him but it 

810
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,800
might not be and I really hope 
I'm not giving him credit for 

811
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,200
something he didn't say. 
But it's a great quote and it 

812
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,000
was someone was saying, make 
sure when you put a shoe on your

813
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,600
feet, it's something that you 
are looking forward to putting 

814
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,400
on so that way you enjoy the 
experience of running and you 

815
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,700
want to be excited to run and if
a shoe helps you get excited to 

816
00:40:40,700 --> 00:40:43,600
do it then like those are the 
shoes you want to be wearing. 

817
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,200
And just because of its a 
quantitative measure and or 

818
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,000
subjective measures saying this 
is better for you, but you don't

819
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,300
like it. 
You're not going to want to run 

820
00:40:51,300 --> 00:40:53,800
it. 
Matt, you have anything to add? 

821
00:40:54,700 --> 00:40:58,200
Yeah, I'm a so lonely because 
things are more complicated than

822
00:40:58,200 --> 00:40:59,700
this. 
And we've even seen and you guys

823
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,100
don't know this in, we've all 
reference this before that it's 

824
00:41:03,100 --> 00:41:05,600
foot type. 
Definitely does not match this. 

825
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:09,000
Very good military studies were 
the views, huge groups of 

826
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,000
people. 
So very powerful like well 

827
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:15,000
powered studies using thousands 
of people to show that assigning

828
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,300
shoes based on foot type is not 
valid at all. 

829
00:41:18,300 --> 00:41:21,200
And is not predictive of injury.
In fact, it actually cause more 

830
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,200
problems. 
We also know that pronation by 

831
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:28,100
itself is not a good measure of 
injury risk. 

832
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,700
There are some other things 
we've been able to look at like 

833
00:41:30,700 --> 00:41:34,500
the rate of pronation as well as
the ability to get out of it. 

834
00:41:34,500 --> 00:41:37,100
So those people actually fall 
and stay. 

835
00:41:37,500 --> 00:41:40,700
There may have some more issues 
but we're not sure yet. 

836
00:41:40,700 --> 00:41:43,300
We also know that sometimes 
pronation a lot of times is how 

837
00:41:43,300 --> 00:41:46,100
people shock absorb. 
So if you take that away, that's

838
00:41:46,100 --> 00:41:48,100
their main method of shock 
absorbing and they're doing 

839
00:41:48,100 --> 00:41:50,400
fine, you might cause them 
issues because they're not 

840
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,700
shock-absorbing somewhere else. 
I think I'm A Hard Sell on this 

841
00:41:54,700 --> 00:41:59,500
only because it doesn't do 
justice to how your body works. 

842
00:41:59,500 --> 00:42:03,100
There are plenty of people that 
pronate heavily and don't do 

843
00:42:03,100 --> 00:42:06,700
super well in really, really, 
really high stability shoes. 

844
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,600
There are other people that do 
not pro knee at all and they do 

845
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,600
super well and a rigid High 
posted shoe. 

846
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:18,000
I don't know why, but they do 
well and that's the shoe they've

847
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,100
used and when they move away 
from it, they get hurt. 

848
00:42:20,100 --> 00:42:22,300
So I think it's more 
complicated. 

849
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,600
Located from from that, then 
that. 

850
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,000
And I think, looking at, again, 
Comfort history. 

851
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,600
If they've had a history of 
pronation related injuries, 

852
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,200
though, we have good evidence. 
That's, that's something you 

853
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,700
might want to consider in terms 
of getting us to Ability shoe, 

854
00:42:34,700 --> 00:42:39,900
but just foots hyperdynamic, 
pronation Hard, Sell based on 

855
00:42:40,300 --> 00:42:43,300
many many, many, many, many 
years of literature and research

856
00:42:43,300 --> 00:42:46,000
on this and experience. 
Yep. 

857
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,000
I agree cell. 
I think interesting part of our 

858
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,800
conversation with Doug Adams a 
couple weeks ago was his 

859
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,300
conversation. 
How he's trying to use his 

860
00:42:54,300 --> 00:42:58,200
individual, like 3D data with 
his Runners and he doesn't look 

861
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,600
at foot pronation but he looks 
at global patterns of movement, 

862
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,600
that may or may not predisposed 
you. 

863
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:07,700
So he's got the three and we use
this, use the same system now in

864
00:43:07,700 --> 00:43:11,700
our clinic at pine trees. 
And you know what I would do 

865
00:43:11,700 --> 00:43:13,400
with a runner in this scenario 
would be. 

866
00:43:13,500 --> 00:43:17,100
Hey this person has like 
anterior knee pain and so we 

867
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:18,600
they like hey I have these two 
shoes. 

868
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,100
Is there one that's better for 
me and so like I don't know 

869
00:43:21,100 --> 00:43:23,300
let's check it out so we do the 
DD analysis. 

870
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,500
And then we would see hey, 
what's your total mechanics top 

871
00:43:25,500 --> 00:43:27,100
to bottom. 
And then you run in the other 

872
00:43:27,100 --> 00:43:29,500
shoe with your total mechanics. 
Top to bottom, let's just say 

873
00:43:29,500 --> 00:43:31,800
shoe a. 
You have like a, what's called 

874
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,000
tibial, inclination angle of 10 
and then the other one is to 

875
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,000
you're like, hey, that's 
actually changes the amount of 

876
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,200
like patella femoral loading. 
So, yeah. 

877
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,600
Shooby. 
Which you also like would put 

878
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:44,700
you in a better position to 
decrease patella femoral 

879
00:43:44,700 --> 00:43:46,400
stresses. 
I would say you have to have 

880
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:51,700
that level of like specificity 
for the individual for looking 

881
00:43:51,700 --> 00:43:53,500
at mechanics. 
Help you select a shoe. 

882
00:43:53,500 --> 00:43:56,700
You have to have a be testing, 
you'd have to have, you know, 

883
00:43:56,700 --> 00:43:59,400
that controlled environment. 
You'd have to have a specific 

884
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,700
reason that a mechanic is better
for that person than another 

885
00:44:02,700 --> 00:44:05,400
because not everyone needs to 
change, you know, two degrees of

886
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:09,000
do, whatever, X, Y, or Z, you 
can pick any measurement, but if

887
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,900
there's a specific history of 
injury or present injury, I 

888
00:44:11,900 --> 00:44:13,900
think that's where some utility 
would come in, but you got to 

889
00:44:13,900 --> 00:44:16,700
have the tools, which is not our
naked eye. 

890
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:18,900
It's got to be something much 
more. 

891
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,000
Unfortunately, sophisticated if 
only everything was easy is 

892
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,300
looking, At it. 
So any other thoughts on this 

893
00:44:24,300 --> 00:44:26,200
one? 
Great. 

894
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,100
I'm going to take the silences. 
We're going to move on. 

895
00:44:28,300 --> 00:44:34,000
So next buy or sell is dual 
density, mid foal, mid folds 

896
00:44:34,700 --> 00:44:39,400
dual density, mid souls so shoes
with dual density of insoles, 

897
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,900
there's a lot of these, a lot of
different kinds. 

898
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,800
We have things from The Tempest,
the souperblast, the wave, 

899
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,900
Rebellion Pro. 
The Rebellion Flash, the Topo 

900
00:44:47,900 --> 00:44:50,700
Spector, the Under Armour 
velocity Elite. 

901
00:44:50,700 --> 00:44:54,200
The fast are the deviate Nitro 
to does it. 

902
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,100
Really? 
Okay, tell you know that. 

903
00:44:57,100 --> 00:45:01,700
Yes, yes, so it has the nitrile 
eats and then normal Nitro foam.

904
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,400
Yeah, not that it. 
So, it's like it, which I kind 

905
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,800
of forgot, you know? 
But the Boston you just tell it 

906
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,800
the Boston, Boston, 20 years, 
there's a lot of different dual 

907
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:12,900
density and you taught me that 
even mention a lot of the 

908
00:45:12,900 --> 00:45:14,900
postage shoes, right? 
They had actual density men's. 

909
00:45:14,900 --> 00:45:18,000
Souls to there's a weirdo. 
Many, such kind of Disappearing.

910
00:45:18,700 --> 00:45:22,700
They are there so many different
kinds of dual density Foams so 

911
00:45:22,700 --> 00:45:27,200
buy or sell them. 
I'll go first, I'm going to say 

912
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:31,100
solid by grunt not, everyone 
needs this. 

913
00:45:31,100 --> 00:45:35,600
Obviously I've actually not 
enjoyed this as much in Racing 

914
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:39,000
shoes, all of the Rebellion Pro 
actually did a decent job. 

915
00:45:39,900 --> 00:45:42,200
Didn't enjoy it in the Under 
Armour velocity Elite. 

916
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:44,300
I think they could have used 
more foam but for a lot of 

917
00:45:44,300 --> 00:45:47,100
shoes, I think it's great. 
The the New Boston I think did a

918
00:45:47,108 --> 00:45:50,100
really good job with balancing 
thousand things out with Light 

919
00:45:50,100 --> 00:45:53,900
Strike Pro 2.0 and I'm sorry the
Light Strike Pro and Light 

920
00:45:53,900 --> 00:45:56,700
Strike 2.0. 
I'm super last of the great 

921
00:45:56,700 --> 00:45:58,500
option. 
People forget that there is this

922
00:45:58,500 --> 00:46:02,600
lower section of normal flight. 
I think it's white foam blast, 

923
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,000
right? 
I think so. 

924
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,400
And it creates some stiffness at
that shoe, definitely needs on 

925
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,200
the bottom without kind of 
getting in the way. 

926
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:14,200
So I think from a geometry 
standpoint yeah there's some 

927
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:15,400
really cool. 
Yeah. 

928
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:17,100
Blast. 
Thank you blast plus there's 

929
00:46:17,100 --> 00:46:19,200
some really cool things that you
can do with this stuff. 

930
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,500
I think we're still learning so 
I don't want to say sell because

931
00:46:22,500 --> 00:46:24,600
I think if you move on, you're 
going to miss some opportunities

932
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,000
of some very Interesting 
shaping. 

933
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,900
And I think the Tempest is a 
great example of how you can use

934
00:46:28,900 --> 00:46:35,000
this to create stability in a 
very structural like a very 

935
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,500
unique way that probably doesn't
push into people as much and 

936
00:46:37,500 --> 00:46:39,300
there's all this fun stuff you 
can do with this. 

937
00:46:39,300 --> 00:46:42,200
So I'm a definite by it just 
doesn't need to be every single 

938
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:46,100
shoe. 
I'm also a by In This category 

939
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,000
for a lot of Reasons, Matt said,
I think another example that I'm

940
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,200
a big fan of is the Topo 
Specter. 

941
00:46:53,500 --> 00:46:56,500
I like just the versatility of 
using two phones gives you a lot

942
00:46:56,500 --> 00:46:58,200
to work with. 
So it's Topo Specter, they have 

943
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:02,700
an Eva rim with their P --ba 
bass mid sole on the inside. 

944
00:47:02,700 --> 00:47:05,200
So you get some of that, like, 
bouncy feel, but you have this 

945
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,500
kind of cradled structured area,
without it being a stability 

946
00:47:07,500 --> 00:47:11,300
shoe, another Trail shoe is the 
X's Ultra from Saucony. 

947
00:47:11,300 --> 00:47:13,200
So you get their power and PB 
core. 

948
00:47:13,500 --> 00:47:16,100
Stuff wrapped around it. 
You just have a lot of 

949
00:47:16,100 --> 00:47:18,600
Versatility to do. 
You can just change a lot of 

950
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,800
things and tweak things and make
it work a little bit differently

951
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,200
and change geometries and change
where the resistance and wear it

952
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,500
guys. 
You, I'm a big fan of 

953
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:29,700
dual-density. 
I also really liked it in the 

954
00:47:29,700 --> 00:47:34,500
Mach series for Hoka because I 
really enjoy the softness on 

955
00:47:34,500 --> 00:47:37,700
top, but that would be too soft 
For Me overall. 

956
00:47:37,700 --> 00:47:39,000
So, I like that. 
I almost like that. 

957
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:42,100
It kind of bottoms out a little 
bit and you have that structure 

958
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,300
thing on the bottom similar. 
What they do with the super 

959
00:47:44,300 --> 00:47:46,700
blast but I think it's more 
pronounced in the Mach Series. 

960
00:47:46,700 --> 00:47:52,300
So I'm a by non dual density, 
kind of these multiple density, 

961
00:47:52,300 --> 00:47:55,100
mid souls, David yeah, I'ma buy 
as well. 

962
00:47:55,100 --> 00:47:57,600
I mean I take a look at all the 
components that make a shoe. 

963
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,400
And there's just so many things 
that can go into creating 

964
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,800
something and doesn't all have 
to come from One Source. 

965
00:48:04,500 --> 00:48:06,600
I mean, I kind of look at it 
similar to, like, looking at a 

966
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,500
margarita. 
It doesn't have to be lemon, 

967
00:48:09,500 --> 00:48:12,600
lime juice, with tequila and 
some syrup, whatever, you know, 

968
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:14,500
you could throw in some Berries,
you can throw on some 

969
00:48:14,500 --> 00:48:16,200
strawberries. 
You can do all these different 

970
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,600
combinations and make it still 
be a base and have it taste good

971
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,200
and be enjoyable and the 
combination may work better for 

972
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,800
someone and not better for 
another, but they might respond 

973
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:26,200
better to a different 
combination. 

974
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,000
And so, not to compare it to 
food. 

975
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,700
I was original going to compare 
it to Tacos, but I don't know. 

976
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,500
I decided to ever get everything
in the tacos. 

977
00:48:35,500 --> 00:48:39,400
The guy from Santa Barbara would
use margaritas and Tacos as the 

978
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:43,300
reference point, just say, but I
think it's nice to have this. 

979
00:48:43,500 --> 00:48:46,900
Two components and I think you 
guys both hit it very well and I

980
00:48:46,900 --> 00:48:50,300
think I love the Spectre for all
the reasons you said one should 

981
00:48:50,300 --> 00:48:53,100
we didn't bring up was the 
audios series having the Light 

982
00:48:53,100 --> 00:48:55,700
Strike Pro in the forefoot and 
having the light strike in the 

983
00:48:55,708 --> 00:48:57,800
heel. 
I think having that Light Strike

984
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,600
Pro in the forefoot genuinely 
makes that thing more bouncy and

985
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:03,300
responsive at the forefoot and 
makes it fun to push off of. 

986
00:49:03,700 --> 00:49:05,900
I still need to run in the 
newest model, I have it. 

987
00:49:05,900 --> 00:49:08,300
I just haven't actually had a 
chance to put it on and use it 

988
00:49:08,300 --> 00:49:12,800
for a workout yet, but, looking 
at the DNA of a lot of these 

989
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,300
shoes, it's I used to have some 
different components, whether 

990
00:49:15,300 --> 00:49:18,600
they use it for stability, for 
responsiveness, for guidance for

991
00:49:18,700 --> 00:49:20,500
anything. 
You know it's kind of nice to 

992
00:49:20,500 --> 00:49:24,000
actually or even as a layer like
we said with the souperblast to 

993
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,700
change your interaction with the
foot and and enhance your 

994
00:49:26,700 --> 00:49:31,300
experience the the one shoe that
we that's probably the most 

995
00:49:31,300 --> 00:49:34,100
unique on the list that I just 
kind of rattle off is the fast 

996
00:49:34,100 --> 00:49:38,400
are because you have like pot of
foam in the heel, that's wafer 

997
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:40,500
meriva in the back. 
And then you have this like 

998
00:49:40,500 --> 00:49:43,600
nitrogen fuse people in the 
front so that's a Whole 

999
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,100
different philosophy and 
different kind of take on this 

1000
00:49:46,100 --> 00:49:47,700
stuff. 
I do think one of the other 

1001
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:53,300
parts of this that does make 
this worth a by in some ways to 

1002
00:49:53,300 --> 00:49:55,900
is, you know, with like the 
Boston, you can get some, like, 

1003
00:49:55,900 --> 00:50:01,000
strike Pro and get my, you know,
train in their racing foam, a 

1004
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:04,600
little bit, get a flavor of it 
but it doesn't cost you 250, you

1005
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:05,900
know? 
Well I guess with Adidas. 

1006
00:50:05,900 --> 00:50:07,500
If you wait long enough, you're 
going to get everything on 

1007
00:50:07,500 --> 00:50:09,500
Wicked sale. 
Anyway, never buy it, something 

1008
00:50:09,500 --> 00:50:11,800
from Adidas full price. 
Wait like three months and it's 

1009
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,900
going to be half off. 
He was 43 is 138 bucks right now

1010
00:50:15,900 --> 00:50:19,800
and is pretty sweet color a and 
I just ruined myself with that 

1011
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:20,900
purchase. 
I talked about earlier. 

1012
00:50:20,900 --> 00:50:22,700
So if I hadn't done that, I 
probably would have gotten a 

1013
00:50:22,708 --> 00:50:25,100
pair of those recovering from 
that. 

1014
00:50:25,700 --> 00:50:30,000
Yes, so I liked that too. 
You just get a little bit of a 

1015
00:50:30,008 --> 00:50:33,600
flavor of it without having to 
full by okay. 

1016
00:50:34,300 --> 00:50:36,800
I shouldn't have used the term 
full by because we're using a 

1017
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,400
buy-sell episode. 
All right, but we're going to 

1018
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,700
move on. 
We got a couple more here. 

1019
00:50:43,100 --> 00:50:46,000
This one might be a little bit 
quicker, not sure maybe not buy 

1020
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,300
or sell shoes, without a true 
rubber outsole. 

1021
00:50:49,300 --> 00:50:52,200
So thinking about like a 
rubberized, Eva buy or sell, 

1022
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:58,800
Matt, I'm a cell because I will 
chew through those and even 

1023
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,100
their shoes that have a tiny bit
of outsole. 

1024
00:51:01,100 --> 00:51:04,200
If it's in the wrong spot, I'm 
just going to rip that thing 

1025
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:07,100
apart. 
So me personally, that's a hard 

1026
00:51:07,100 --> 00:51:11,700
sell my other issue sometimes is
that mean one of the bigger 

1027
00:51:11,700 --> 00:51:14,700
examples tomorrow weight today, 
This new environment. 

1028
00:51:14,700 --> 00:51:17,500
Yeah. 
I mean they they have little. 

1029
00:51:17,500 --> 00:51:19,800
Yeah. 
It's still most exposed become. 

1030
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,900
Our did a good job just because 
it's got, its got an out so 

1031
00:51:22,900 --> 00:51:25,000
where they where I would 
normally tear through. 

1032
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:26,500
So this shoe actually did really
well. 

1033
00:51:26,500 --> 00:51:29,900
I think I have like 50 miles on 
my pear in the new one and I 

1034
00:51:29,900 --> 00:51:33,300
barely have anywhere in that 
spot which is great but I think 

1035
00:51:33,300 --> 00:51:36,000
fully exposed outsoles. 
I'm A Hard Sell because my 

1036
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:40,400
experience with those shoes as 
the outsoles add to the the the 

1037
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,900
firmness or softness of these 
shoes and I found shoes Just 

1038
00:51:43,900 --> 00:51:46,700
that don't have an outsole, they
bought them out, and they're too

1039
00:51:46,700 --> 00:51:50,600
me too soft, but some people may
like that but I'm Still A Hard 

1040
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:52,800
Sell, especially from a 
durability standpoint with how 

1041
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:56,100
expensive these get like. 
So no. 

1042
00:51:56,100 --> 00:52:01,700
So as someone who's much nicer 
to my own Souls than you are, I 

1043
00:52:01,700 --> 00:52:04,900
think this could be a by for the
right person because I 

1044
00:52:04,900 --> 00:52:11,200
personally love running in a 
shoe with it, on the road, like,

1045
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:14,300
running on the road, only in a 
shoe that has Rubberized Eva. 

1046
00:52:14,300 --> 00:52:18,200
It feels so soft to land on, not
like in a cushiony, soft way, 

1047
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:22,400
but it just feels like I'm not, 
there's not any pounding, that's

1048
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,300
what it feels like, just just 
kind of from my own experience. 

1049
00:52:25,300 --> 00:52:29,400
So that's why I love running in 
the Mach series because of that 

1050
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:33,800
rubberized DVA, I really enjoyed
the carbon X2 for that reason as

1051
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:37,200
well. 
Carbon X3 upper was really off 

1052
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:42,800
for me, so I I feel like for 
someone like me, who does not 

1053
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:43,800
beat up there out. 
Souls. 

1054
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,700
Like, I put tons of miles on 
both of those models that I 

1055
00:52:46,700 --> 00:52:48,900
mentioned. 
And I had the same outsole like 

1056
00:52:48,900 --> 00:52:51,900
durability and it just felt 
great. 

1057
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,100
Like I just really enjoyed it. 
It was really quiet. 

1058
00:52:54,100 --> 00:52:56,100
I think quiet is the best way to
describe it. 

1059
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:01,600
So if you're like Matt cell, if 
you're like me by David, what do

1060
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:03,400
you think? 
Who's David's tiebreaker? 

1061
00:53:03,700 --> 00:53:07,800
Yeah, dun dun dun dun, dun dun 
dun, dun bye. 

1062
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:16,800
I love the conveyor in the mall.
Like but the bar still has some 

1063
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,100
outsole to it is that is 
announcing its like the what the

1064
00:53:20,100 --> 00:53:22,400
posterior, I don't heal in the 
anterior. 

1065
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,700
Me dad for justice, okay, so 
that's biggest about me, but 

1066
00:53:25,700 --> 00:53:30,600
just the right place. 
I was I meant like fully exposed

1067
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:32,500
like no out. 
So I'm for it. 

1068
00:53:32,500 --> 00:53:36,600
I'm for, I love it. 
I mean, but in the right 

1069
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:39,300
situation, right? 
I love it on road situations. 

1070
00:53:39,300 --> 00:53:43,000
I agree 100% with Nate and 
here's the reason why it's so 

1071
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:44,900
true. 
You Gotta Give attribution of 

1072
00:53:44,900 --> 00:53:47,200
try another one. 
That does the rubberized CVA. 

1073
00:53:47,900 --> 00:53:50,000
Yeah, but they can get away with
that because there's shoes are 

1074
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:53,300
like way cheaper. 
Well, if it keeps costs down, I 

1075
00:53:53,300 --> 00:53:55,900
mean, we're talking about how 
expensive shoes can be earlier. 

1076
00:53:55,900 --> 00:53:59,500
I don't know, that's fair cars. 
Cheaper overall? 

1077
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,300
Yeah, I've been also has a small
pot pot of outsole to be fair. 

1078
00:54:05,500 --> 00:54:08,000
I mean, we got, we always got to
give a shout out for Andrea with

1079
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,900
the beacon. 
Oh yeah, I mean they all right 

1080
00:54:11,900 --> 00:54:14,400
here, yeah. 
There's a lot of shoes out 

1081
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:17,300
there, you know, I like it, I 
like it. 

1082
00:54:17,300 --> 00:54:20,700
I think what enhances the 
experience for me as actually 

1083
00:54:20,700 --> 00:54:24,500
that little bit of give and that
little bit of give creates more 

1084
00:54:24,500 --> 00:54:26,300
traction on the road, if that 
makes sense. 

1085
00:54:26,300 --> 00:54:29,100
It almost gives it a little 
stickiness to it where it, it 

1086
00:54:29,100 --> 00:54:31,700
compresses into the road and 
then that creates a little bit 

1087
00:54:31,700 --> 00:54:34,600
of traction underneath it, that 
you can kind of pull from and 

1088
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:37,200
there's something weirdly 
pleasing about running on the 

1089
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:40,300
road with that. 
I'll say on dirt and might slip 

1090
00:54:40,300 --> 00:54:42,500
a little bit, you know, it's not
for that, it's for the rent, 

1091
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,000
it's not for them. 
Dirt, but like for the gravel 

1092
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:48,800
Trails but there have been a lot
of in the carbon next to 

1093
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,200
specifically, there's been a lot
of really good memories. 

1094
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:55,200
I have with long runs in that 
shoe on the roads, such as such 

1095
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,500
an ice shaver just such a rude. 
It with the 33. 

1096
00:54:58,500 --> 00:54:59,800
I know. 
I hope they bring it back with 

1097
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:02,700
the folder before I hope. 
So is there going to be a 4? 

1098
00:55:02,700 --> 00:55:04,300
I want there to be a for, do we 
know? 

1099
00:55:04,500 --> 00:55:06,400
I don't know. 
I consider that another good one

1100
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:09,600
for the conversation on like 
training shoes with plates and 

1101
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,500
them. 
Yeah, like I enjoy that one for 

1102
00:55:12,500 --> 00:55:14,700
long runs and Like the mock was 
great. 

1103
00:55:14,700 --> 00:55:18,700
The kinvaras great. 
I mean, like and there's, 

1104
00:55:18,700 --> 00:55:21,000
there's like, a cult following 
for those types of shoes, right?

1105
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:23,200
Because they also tend to be a 
little bit lower in stock. 

1106
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:24,700
They usually tend to be a little
bit more flexible. 

1107
00:55:24,700 --> 00:55:26,500
They're kind of like your 
quote-unquote natural 

1108
00:55:26,900 --> 00:55:30,800
transitioning shoes or feels so,
I mean, I think there's a place 

1109
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:35,500
for him and I don't choose to 
run all of my runs in shoes like

1110
00:55:35,500 --> 00:55:37,600
that but there's that, there's a
time and place and sometimes 

1111
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,500
that's what I want. 
I thought you're going to say, I

1112
00:55:40,508 --> 00:55:43,300
don't choose the runs to run a 
shoe like that, though, the runs

1113
00:55:43,300 --> 00:55:47,600
choose me. 
But now the tacos choose me, but

1114
00:55:49,100 --> 00:55:52,700
I'm gonna move us forward. 
All right conversation, our next

1115
00:55:52,700 --> 00:55:55,500
topic, we have two left so we 
had to offer tonight. 

1116
00:55:55,500 --> 00:55:59,100
The first one is buy or sell 
training in Super Shoes. 

1117
00:55:59,900 --> 00:56:02,600
I'm gonna sell. 
I think there's just, there's 

1118
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:04,600
just too much. 
We don't know if you like, this 

1119
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:06,500
is like cards were like I fold 
done. 

1120
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:09,100
There's just too much weight. 
Don't know. 

1121
00:56:09,100 --> 00:56:11,400
And kind of for the same things 
I was talking about earlier with

1122
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:15,000
the 40 mm plus 2, a Kites and 
these highly compliant Foams. 

1123
00:56:15,700 --> 00:56:18,700
I feel like, and again, this is 
anecdotal, but I feel like 

1124
00:56:18,700 --> 00:56:21,700
injury rates, at least in that 
foot and some of those like 

1125
00:56:21,700 --> 00:56:25,000
stabilizing type areas, whether 
it's that or the proximal hip, I

1126
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:29,800
feel like those have gone up and
the common trend for the people 

1127
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:32,900
that I talked to tends to be the
Super Shoes and running in a 

1128
00:56:32,900 --> 00:56:38,600
lot, you know, and especially in
areas, where they're not exactly

1129
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,600
Designed for like, if they're 
not doing them for workouts, 

1130
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:45,400
you're not doing them for races,
your just slopping along in them

1131
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:48,600
or even walking in them. 
I was walking behind someone, 

1132
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,700
the other day. 
That was wearing Vapor Flies out

1133
00:56:51,700 --> 00:56:54,300
on out on State Street and I was
like, that's odd. 

1134
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,200
It's I don't know. 
I feel like there's just so 

1135
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:01,500
much, we don't know. 
And I feel like these things do 

1136
00:57:01,500 --> 00:57:04,100
change our mechanics and whether
it's a proximal hamstring, 

1137
00:57:04,100 --> 00:57:05,700
strain as well. 
That's another common one. 

1138
00:57:05,700 --> 00:57:07,900
Because of these sharp rockers 
that are also coming with a lot 

1139
00:57:07,900 --> 00:57:12,700
of these shoes. 
I think it's one of those shoes 

1140
00:57:12,700 --> 00:57:16,300
that dances on the extreme end 
of things and I'm not one for 

1141
00:57:16,300 --> 00:57:19,600
extremes and I feel like these 
Super Shoes are definitely on 

1142
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:23,200
one end of the extreme and to 
run all of your miles in them. 

1143
00:57:23,300 --> 00:57:26,300
Absolutely not for me, Nate, you
all will be to go. 

1144
00:57:26,300 --> 00:57:32,500
I mean I'll go in the middle 
because that's what the one you 

1145
00:57:32,500 --> 00:57:34,100
forget. 
So that's that's where I want to

1146
00:57:34,108 --> 00:57:38,600
be on this conversation. 
So my, my bad I answer. 

1147
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,900
That is daily training in these 
Super Shoes to if it's for work.

1148
00:57:41,900 --> 00:57:44,300
If you're using it with 
intention then it's fine. 

1149
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:47,500
Yeah it was it was for daily 
training and that's it. 

1150
00:57:47,500 --> 00:57:49,300
I was going to bring that up 
about you because I know you run

1151
00:57:49,300 --> 00:57:52,400
in a lot but you have a purpose 
behind running in them and it's 

1152
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:53,400
not just for all. 
Yeah. 

1153
00:57:53,500 --> 00:57:57,400
And I really only run fast and 
I'm I never, I never sloppy Z mi

1154
00:57:57,400 --> 00:57:59,100
in them. 
Yep. 

1155
00:58:00,100 --> 00:58:02,800
And I'm kind of glad we're 
bringing this up just in a 

1156
00:58:02,808 --> 00:58:05,400
conversation with us because we 
did talk about it. 

1157
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:08,500
We kind of asked Jeff burns his 
thought on it and he's kind of 

1158
00:58:08,700 --> 00:58:12,300
Uh, yeah, I mean, why not get 
the benefit from them, you know,

1159
00:58:12,300 --> 00:58:15,100
all the time. 
And I knew that we had more 

1160
00:58:15,100 --> 00:58:17,100
thoughts about this. 
I'm, it's good to hear kind of 

1161
00:58:17,100 --> 00:58:19,900
what you're thinking. 
I think for me again, it's also 

1162
00:58:19,900 --> 00:58:23,600
a cell. 
I agreed with David as with what

1163
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:26,500
David is saying in terms of what
we don't know about them and the

1164
00:58:26,500 --> 00:58:29,500
shifting of loads, I think the 
other part is, if you are one of

1165
00:58:29,508 --> 00:58:32,700
those people who's doing it, you
have to realize the potential 

1166
00:58:32,700 --> 00:58:35,500
changes that are coming with 
that and what your body can 

1167
00:58:35,500 --> 00:58:38,100
tolerate, because since its 
shifted load towards and Away 

1168
00:58:38,100 --> 00:58:41,500
thing, From things, your body 
will adapt to the things that 

1169
00:58:41,500 --> 00:58:44,100
has more load on it, and the 
things that has less load on it.

1170
00:58:44,100 --> 00:58:46,600
So we saw that with the 
minimalist movement, if you are 

1171
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:49,200
wise with your introduction of 
minimalist, Footwear into your 

1172
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:51,800
life, you're going to get higher
bone density. 

1173
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:54,800
You're going to get improve 
strength on the intrinsic foot 

1174
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:58,200
muscles, like those things do 
happen, but if you go too fast, 

1175
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:01,000
you're gonna have issues. 
When it comes to the minimal 

1176
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:03,600
aside. 
We don't know have this like 

1177
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:06,600
data set yet, but you can 
presume the fact that we are 

1178
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:08,900
putting on these high rockers 
which decreased Tanner 

1179
00:59:08,900 --> 00:59:10,900
pressures. 
Which decreases calf loading, 

1180
00:59:10,900 --> 00:59:13,800
you're going to have changes in 
the function and total 

1181
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:17,100
composition of your calf and 
your foot because of using them 

1182
00:59:17,100 --> 00:59:20,300
all of the time. 
That means that somebody going 

1183
00:59:20,300 --> 00:59:22,800
from a quote-unquote, typical 
daily trainer down to a 

1184
00:59:22,808 --> 00:59:24,600
minimalist shoe, might become 
you. 

1185
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:27,300
If you've been training only in 
Super Shoes, going from a super 

1186
00:59:27,300 --> 00:59:30,300
shoe to a typical daily trainer 
might have the same effect on 

1187
00:59:30,300 --> 00:59:32,600
you. 
So you have to understand if you

1188
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,400
are a person that's doing this 
all the time, this might be 

1189
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:40,300
what's happening is that you're 
having changes in the Robust 

1190
00:59:40,300 --> 00:59:45,200
nature of your foot and calf 
complex, and that could cause 

1191
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:47,400
issues for your transitioning 
out of a shoe like that. 

1192
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:49,900
If they end up not working for 
you, I'm also sell because it's 

1193
00:59:49,900 --> 00:59:53,300
just wicked expensive. 
So, it's just like, why do that?

1194
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:56,500
But that's me. 
Matt, what do you got? 

1195
00:59:56,700 --> 01:00:00,700
I think you both bring up great 
points in terms of, you know, 

1196
01:00:00,700 --> 01:00:03,900
Nathan talking about the fact 
that these are pretty 

1197
01:00:03,900 --> 01:00:05,800
aggressive. 
And if you try to switch out of 

1198
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:08,200
them, your bodies adapt to it. 
It's gonna be a little rough, 

1199
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:09,700
right? 
So, Kind of this, that was my 

1200
01:00:09,700 --> 01:00:12,000
biggest fear is they tend to 
ruin others shoes, right? 

1201
01:00:12,100 --> 01:00:14,200
If you train them all the time 
because your body gets used to 

1202
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:17,700
it right versus like hey just 
like using it appropriately for 

1203
01:00:17,700 --> 01:00:21,500
harder efforts you tend to not 
see that kind of same thing 

1204
01:00:21,500 --> 01:00:25,000
happen, right. 
So we also know, as you both 

1205
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,700
mentioned that there's plenty of
evidence suggests that these do 

1206
01:00:27,700 --> 01:00:31,400
switch loading to other areas. 
So these are not magic shoes, 

1207
01:00:31,700 --> 01:00:34,600
they will not reduce injuries 
cross, all the all people, 

1208
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:38,600
they're just shifting forces. 
They can make you feel like. 

1209
01:00:38,700 --> 01:00:40,200
Faster. 
They that we know that they can 

1210
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:43,000
help you hold a faster pace for 
longer. 

1211
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,900
They don't necessarily increase 
your base speed but you can hold

1212
01:00:45,900 --> 01:00:48,600
an effort for longer. 
If you know how to use them, 

1213
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:53,300
they are tools and these things 
are all designed with certain 

1214
01:00:53,300 --> 01:00:55,700
runners in mind certain Paces in
mind. 

1215
01:00:55,700 --> 01:00:58,500
There are shoes coming out now 
that are made differently. 

1216
01:00:58,500 --> 01:01:01,500
Where they're going, hey, we 
want a kind of balance of this 

1217
01:01:01,500 --> 01:01:04,800
stuff and give a quote racing 
such training shoe that somebody

1218
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:08,500
could use if they're not running
super fast all the time though. 

1219
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:10,600
Those are coming, right? 
There's there's a couple really 

1220
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:13,900
great options out there. 
That said, for the true Super 

1221
01:01:13,900 --> 01:01:17,700
Shoes, I wouldn't do it because 
we just don't know enough yet. 

1222
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:19,300
And again, they're really 
extreme. 

1223
01:01:19,300 --> 01:01:21,200
We've seen from dust and 
joubert's study. 

1224
01:01:21,300 --> 01:01:23,600
Then a couple other ones that 
you don't get as much benefit 

1225
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:25,900
from that stuff. 
When you're running at slower 

1226
01:01:25,900 --> 01:01:28,600
speeds you still get some. 
But is it worth spending 20 50 

1227
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:31,400
bucks, right? 
Is it worth the possible risks 

1228
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:34,100
of instability of the really 
stiff? 

1229
01:01:34,100 --> 01:01:36,200
Plate mechanics. 
I like David, I've had lots of 

1230
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:37,800
people go. 
I don't know what. 

1231
01:01:37,900 --> 01:01:41,600
Oh I guess the only thing that 
started right after it, like 

1232
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:43,800
right before this engine was, I 
started training full-time in 

1233
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:45,000
these shoes. 
When I was working at Casa 

1234
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:47,700
Colina, do more with or 
residency you have, you got it's

1235
01:01:47,700 --> 01:01:49,500
right next to Claremont. 
You got a lot of people with 

1236
01:01:49,500 --> 01:01:52,700
very, very large incomes 
disposable income sources. 

1237
01:01:52,700 --> 01:01:55,100
You had all these guys that just
suddenly bought the Vapor Flies 

1238
01:01:55,100 --> 01:01:57,000
who just came out in their 
training in it only and then all

1239
01:01:57,008 --> 01:01:59,800
of a sudden kill these problems,
hit problems, all this kind of 

1240
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:04,400
stuff so there are tools you 
need to use them as such. 

1241
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:07,100
There are going to be a couple 
people who hates the only shoot 

1242
01:02:07,100 --> 01:02:08,500
that they could run in and 
that's great. 

1243
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:11,000
Right. 
And it's helping them access the

1244
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:13,300
the run, it being able to run 
that scraper for the majority of

1245
01:02:13,300 --> 01:02:16,200
people to Tool not meant to be 
used everyday. 

1246
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:19,800
You be like, if you were lucky 
enough to have an F1 Formula 

1247
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:22,000
race car, you wouldn't take it 
to go grocery shopping. 

1248
01:02:22,700 --> 01:02:26,100
That's not whole, I mean, if you
know, don't do that. 

1249
01:02:26,500 --> 01:02:29,000
Yeah. 
I think, you know, some of the 

1250
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,600
rationale, on the other side of 
kind of the side of the fence 

1251
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:34,600
that were sitting on is, putting
yourself in a shoe like that, 

1252
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:37,500
that decreases the amount of 
like fatigue that your muscles 

1253
01:02:37,500 --> 01:02:41,000
go through my yellow. 
You two actually performer to 

1254
01:02:41,500 --> 01:02:44,300
train more kind of increase your
training capacity. 

1255
01:02:44,300 --> 01:02:46,500
That's some of the rationale 
behind, like, people wanting to 

1256
01:02:46,508 --> 01:02:48,600
train in these shoes. 
But there's not that much 

1257
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:50,600
evidence for that either. 
But we do want to just make sure

1258
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:54,200
that we put those ideas out 
there because that there are 

1259
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:57,200
thoughts there and it's worth 
considering Matt. 

1260
01:02:57,200 --> 01:02:58,500
What do you? 
I think the last part and I got 

1261
01:02:58,500 --> 01:03:00,700
to give date I can't remember. 
I think it was David talked 

1262
01:03:00,700 --> 01:03:04,000
about this but probably got to 
be careful with these shoes. 

1263
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:06,900
You have to be careful with 
these shoes because often times 

1264
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:10,000
they will allow you to To train 
harder than potential. 

1265
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:12,000
Your body can recover from, 
right? 

1266
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:13,500
So like using them for easy 
runs. 

1267
01:03:13,500 --> 01:03:16,100
If you're not able to control 
your pace, in your running too 

1268
01:03:16,100 --> 01:03:18,700
hard, you're still going to put 
more stress into those new 

1269
01:03:18,700 --> 01:03:20,300
areas. 
That stuff has to recover. 

1270
01:03:20,300 --> 01:03:23,800
If you really want to get at it 
the adequate training effect, 

1271
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:24,900
right? 
There's this thing called the 

1272
01:03:24,900 --> 01:03:28,000
compensation, where it's super 
compensation, where you do, hard

1273
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:30,400
training, your Fitness drops. 
You've got to be able to recover

1274
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:33,300
for that thing to come back up. 
But if you keep hammering on the

1275
01:03:33,300 --> 01:03:35,000
stuff, your Fitness is going to 
keep dropping. 

1276
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:41,200
So the argument of I can do more
hard training, I think makes 

1277
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:43,600
sense from, like, a hard workout
perspective, but if you're doing

1278
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:45,600
that all the time, I think 
people are forgetting what, the 

1279
01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:48,500
point of easy and Recovery runs 
are. 

1280
01:03:48,500 --> 01:03:51,500
And if you don't know how to 
contain control that this is not

1281
01:03:51,500 --> 01:03:53,100
a chew. 
You should be using all the time

1282
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:54,700
totally. 
Alright. 

1283
01:03:54,700 --> 01:04:00,500
Our last buy or sell of the 
evening, Super Shoes for short 

1284
01:04:00,500 --> 01:04:04,300
distances by them or sell them. 
So instead of like a marathon 

1285
01:04:04,300 --> 01:04:07,400
racing shoe, we're talking about
things like the fast forward. 

1286
01:04:07,500 --> 01:04:13,200
The takumi In the SC Pacer the 
Sinister, there might be others.

1287
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:15,600
But what do you guys think? 
And I'm going to, I'm going to 

1288
01:04:15,608 --> 01:04:20,400
abstain from this one because I 
haven't tested any of those Iran

1289
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:23,400
in the Su Pacer a little bit. 
So I guess I tested that one, 

1290
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:26,500
but I don't I don't race that 
much like this. 

1291
01:04:26,500 --> 01:04:28,400
So I want to hear. 
I want to hear your thoughts buy

1292
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:33,300
or sell these Super Shoes for 
short distances by absolutely. 

1293
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:38,200
It's a hard by and it kind of 
comes down to some of the 

1294
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:39,700
answers that I was saying 
earlier. 

1295
01:04:39,700 --> 01:04:41,800
But a, a gives more options to 
people. 

1296
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:44,600
Not Everyone likes these high 
stock rockered, highly compliant

1297
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:48,000
shoes. 
Also taking a look at course 

1298
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:51,100
topography and things like that 
short distances are usually 

1299
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:53,600
courses. 
That have turns, they're usually

1300
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:56,800
courses, that may or may not 
have different kinds of terrain,

1301
01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:02,500
whether it be dirt or grass, IE 
cross-country, or there's a lot 

1302
01:05:02,500 --> 01:05:06,300
of left turns in track And some 
people don't do well in some of 

1303
01:05:06,308 --> 01:05:09,100
these high stack shoes. 
Like there's just certain shoes 

1304
01:05:09,100 --> 01:05:12,100
that are out there like and this
doesn't mean they're a bad shoe 

1305
01:05:12,100 --> 01:05:14,300
by any means and actually, the 
vapor flow is one of them. 

1306
01:05:14,300 --> 01:05:17,400
I have a hard time on the track 
and paper flies SC Elite, I have

1307
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:18,700
a hard time on the track in 
those. 

1308
01:05:19,100 --> 01:05:22,800
There's a few shoes that are 
just a little too pillowy and 

1309
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:26,200
for whatever reason when I turn 
into them, I don't like them as 

1310
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:28,000
much. 
Now if it's a turn here and 

1311
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,600
there like on a Half Marathon 
course in the pace is slower 

1312
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:33,900
than it's fine. 
But we're talking 5K 10K. 

1313
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:37,100
Even Road Mi type situations 
here. 

1314
01:05:37,700 --> 01:05:41,000
And so, she was like, the takumi
great at cornering. 

1315
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:43,100
She's like, the Sinister from 
Saucony. 

1316
01:05:43,100 --> 01:05:47,100
Great at cornering SC Pacer, 
very grounded and it's like, you

1317
01:05:47,100 --> 01:05:50,300
can kind of pick and choose 
where you're putting your feet 

1318
01:05:50,300 --> 01:05:56,900
and yeah, it's a by, it's a by, 
but there's there is nuances to 

1319
01:05:56,900 --> 01:05:59,600
that as well, you know, 
depending on the race and what 

1320
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:03,300
the course looks like, I might 
choose a vaporfi I might choose 

1321
01:06:04,300 --> 01:06:06,400
A puma fast. 
Our I did choose a puma fast our

1322
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:13,900
for a 10K last year, so it's not
to say that it replaces them and

1323
01:06:13,900 --> 01:06:17,200
that I would always choose a 
shorter distance, racing shoe 

1324
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:20,200
over a longer distance racing 
shoot in a short distance racing

1325
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:23,000
situation but I think there is 
certainly a time in place 

1326
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:25,000
especially on the track 
especially when there's a lot of

1327
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:27,100
corners and especially when the 
footing is different. 

1328
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:31,400
Can I pose you a question? 
So let's say you're somebody who

1329
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:36,800
races marathons but also races 
shorter distance s 5K 10K would 

1330
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:39,800
you? 
I don't know. 

1331
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:42,900
Is it worth buying both? 
I guess is my question like by 

1332
01:06:42,900 --> 01:06:45,000
your Marathon razor. 
And then also, by your short 

1333
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:50,800
distance racer or or not, and I 
part of you to also, you can 

1334
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:52,700
answer that. 
I have another question, but you

1335
01:06:52,700 --> 01:06:55,800
should answer that one first. 
I imagine if you're asking this 

1336
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:58,200
question to yourself, you have 
some experience racing. 

1337
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:03,800
It implies that you've run these
distances before and you're 

1338
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:06,600
looking at a decision of like, 
okay, should I actually have two

1339
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:08,500
different shoes or should I just
have one? 

1340
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:13,000
And yeah, with that said, I 
think it just depends on what 

1341
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:16,100
you want out of your shoe. 
If you like the shoe that you're

1342
01:07:16,100 --> 01:07:18,300
running in and you don't mind 
being in a higher stack, height 

1343
01:07:18,300 --> 01:07:21,200
shoe for a 5k, then go for it. 
Only have one shoe. 

1344
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:23,500
That's kind of what the vapor 
fly was meant to be. 

1345
01:07:23,500 --> 01:07:26,400
Was that versatile all distance 
type racing shoe? 

1346
01:07:27,700 --> 01:07:30,100
There's other ones out there. 
It's not Vaporfi, you know, and 

1347
01:07:30,100 --> 01:07:32,900
that's why a lot of these shoes 
are getting down into the 67 Oz 

1348
01:07:32,900 --> 01:07:34,300
Ranch. 
I put the Endorphin Pro 3 and 

1349
01:07:34,300 --> 01:07:37,500
that category I put. 
And that's why you're seeing a 

1350
01:07:37,500 --> 01:07:39,400
lot of them to a lot of these 
companies are making two 

1351
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:41,200
different options even in the 
long-distance race in 

1352
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:43,500
categories. 
And one is kind of like your 

1353
01:07:43,500 --> 01:07:46,500
quote-unquote, true, marathoner.
And the other one is like their 

1354
01:07:46,500 --> 01:07:53,100
verse more versatile option. 
So I think it just depends on 

1355
01:07:53,108 --> 01:07:55,900
what the person likes and 
there's a difference to as well.

1356
01:07:55,900 --> 01:07:59,600
Like some people might really 
like lightweight Eight Nimble 

1357
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:03,400
shoes for 5Ks and 10ks and not 
like that at all for longer 

1358
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:06,700
distances and what they prefer 
on their feet. 

1359
01:08:06,700 --> 01:08:08,900
For those given distances might 
be different from each other and

1360
01:08:08,900 --> 01:08:10,900
if that is the case, then you 
probably should have to. 

1361
01:08:11,800 --> 01:08:14,000
But if you don't mind and you 
actually like the way it feels 

1362
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:15,900
regardless of the distance then 
just have one. 

1363
01:08:16,100 --> 01:08:17,300
Hmm. 
There's nothing wrong with just 

1364
01:08:17,300 --> 01:08:19,899
having one. 
Yeah, I know I said I was going 

1365
01:08:19,899 --> 01:08:21,899
to abstain from this question 
but I think I'll actually 

1366
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:26,200
actually jump in and just join 
the join the conversation and I 

1367
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:30,300
think I'm gonna I'm gonna also 
say bye but it's Earlier by, if 

1368
01:08:31,300 --> 01:08:33,399
kind of it really depends on who
you are. 

1369
01:08:33,399 --> 01:08:37,700
If you're like me and you're 
someone who's who enjoys running

1370
01:08:37,700 --> 01:08:41,700
a marathon, every couple of 
years and then races a half 

1371
01:08:41,700 --> 01:08:44,899
marathon. 
Every once in a while, I would 

1372
01:08:44,899 --> 01:08:48,100
probably just buy the one shoe 
by the one that I'm going to 

1373
01:08:48,100 --> 01:08:51,100
like to run my marathon in and 
put up with it with my short 

1374
01:08:51,100 --> 01:08:53,200
distance stuff. 
I don't run a lot of workouts on

1375
01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:55,000
the track. 
I don't run a lot of those kinds

1376
01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:57,300
of things. 
I'm more of like this, just like

1377
01:08:57,800 --> 01:09:00,500
recreational. 
Enjoying enjoying running, 

1378
01:09:00,500 --> 01:09:02,800
trying to get faster. 
I'm going to buy the one shoe 

1379
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:05,399
that's going to get me Marathon 
but also can go fast enough for 

1380
01:09:05,399 --> 01:09:10,100
a 5k also in line with dust. 
I know Dustin Joe Bert's kind of

1381
01:09:10,100 --> 01:09:12,200
take on. 
This is like hey is the shoe 

1382
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:14,399
that's most economical for you? 
You should run in that for all 

1383
01:09:14,399 --> 01:09:17,399
distances. 
I also agree with you David on 

1384
01:09:17,399 --> 01:09:21,000
the like, what's the course, 
what's the goal? 

1385
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:23,100
What do you like those things 
matter? 

1386
01:09:23,100 --> 01:09:25,800
I think just as much as the 
running economy especially with 

1387
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:28,899
the dividends that pay out over 
the course of a marathon versus 

1388
01:09:28,899 --> 01:09:31,500
the a smaller dividends over the
course of a 5K in terms of 

1389
01:09:31,500 --> 01:09:33,800
running economy. 
So I see both sides of it for 

1390
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:36,899
someone like me, I'm probably 
selling this but not because 

1391
01:09:36,899 --> 01:09:39,300
they shouldn't exist but because
I'm not going to buy both. 

1392
01:09:39,500 --> 01:09:42,000
I'm gonna buy one for myself but
I do like that. 

1393
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:44,700
They both exist for having the 
variety. 

1394
01:09:44,700 --> 01:09:46,899
So I buy it, I buy it in that 
sense. 

1395
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:50,300
Now what do you got? 
What's your take on this by 

1396
01:09:50,300 --> 01:09:57,200
yourself. 
I'ma buy because I think 

1397
01:09:57,200 --> 01:10:00,200
variability is important. 
I think there's still a lot of 

1398
01:10:00,208 --> 01:10:03,300
people who don't necessarily 
like the super high stack shoes 

1399
01:10:03,700 --> 01:10:06,600
and I'm seeing people race a 
marathon in the jacuzzi, send 

1400
01:10:06,700 --> 01:10:08,600
right? 
Which was actually its original 

1401
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:11,200
purpose, right? 
Was even back in the day when it

1402
01:10:11,200 --> 01:10:15,100
was much thinner was as a 
marathon racing shoe over in 

1403
01:10:15,100 --> 01:10:17,700
Japan. 
So and that's exactly why I I 

1404
01:10:17,708 --> 01:10:20,600
had to grab the original Pairs, 
and I actually still have a pair

1405
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:25,500
of the original. 
That said, I agree with you that

1406
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:29,200
if you can just choose one shoe,
I mean, I personally probably 

1407
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:32,200
choose the higher stock option 
that said, some of the stuff is 

1408
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:35,000
really fun. 
It's really feels better on 

1409
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:36,900
track stuff. 
I'm doing really, really fast to

1410
01:10:36,908 --> 01:10:39,600
efforts. 
So I'm going to I'm saying by 

1411
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:42,300
again assuming that we're 
talking about each tool, 

1412
01:10:42,300 --> 01:10:44,800
probably needs to match exactly 
what you're doing and not 

1413
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:47,600
everyone may like the super 
high. 

1414
01:10:47,700 --> 01:10:49,900
Which is totally fine. 
I do think the majority of 

1415
01:10:49,900 --> 01:10:51,400
people are going to buy that 
because they are the most 

1416
01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:53,100
comfortable. 
But for those people that want 

1417
01:10:53,100 --> 01:10:55,900
to run really fast and they want
the lightest possible thing and 

1418
01:10:55,900 --> 01:10:59,300
stuff, getting back under at or 
under 6 ounces. 

1419
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:02,700
You know, I think that's, you 
know, I think it's gonna be a 

1420
01:11:02,708 --> 01:11:04,100
by. 
Yep. 

1421
01:11:04,300 --> 01:11:06,900
Like I said, I'm a buy for their
existence. 

1422
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:10,800
I buy for their existence only 
by if it makes sense for where 

1423
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:12,800
you're at in your running goals 
and everything like that and 

1424
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:16,200
your preferences yeah. 
Said, I think this shoes still 

1425
01:11:16,300 --> 01:11:17,900
needs to be appropriate. 
It right? 

1426
01:11:17,900 --> 01:11:22,700
So if you've got a supposed 5K 
10K issue and it's heavier or 

1427
01:11:22,700 --> 01:11:25,200
the same weight, as some of the 
marathon shoes, we got to have a

1428
01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:28,900
conversation because I don't 
think that's appropriate and 

1429
01:11:28,900 --> 01:11:31,100
that's think you definitely 
going to be a cell. 

1430
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:34,100
So I think it has to give you 
reason. 

1431
01:11:34,100 --> 01:11:36,300
It's got to be light enough. 
While still maintaining some 

1432
01:11:36,300 --> 01:11:38,900
cushion to not overlap with the 
marathon stuff. 

1433
01:11:39,100 --> 01:11:40,700
Great. 
Well, everyone. 

1434
01:11:40,700 --> 01:11:43,600
Thank you so much for joining us
for our first buy or sell 

1435
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:45,400
episode. 
Well, we want to hear from you, 

1436
01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:47,400
is your takes on some of these 
as well. 

1437
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:49,700
So I know No, we had our 
subjective but I'm sure people 

1438
01:11:49,700 --> 01:11:51,500
have thoughts and you may 
disagree with us. 

1439
01:11:51,500 --> 01:11:53,800
And I think that's what Foster's
really good conversation. 

1440
01:11:53,900 --> 01:11:56,500
But we also want to do is if 
there are things that you want 

1441
01:11:56,500 --> 01:11:59,600
us to talk about in terms of buy
or sell, let us know. 

1442
01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:01,600
We're going to add them to a 
list and we'll start putting 

1443
01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:03,800
together future episodes in this
realm. 

1444
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:06,100
So again, thank you all for 
joining us and we hope you have 

1445
01:12:06,100 --> 01:12:07,600
a great rest of your day.