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Hello everybody. 
And welcome to the docks of 

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running podcast where Me a group
of doctor of physical therapy 

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discuss the Art and Science of 
running and the stuff that we 

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put on our feet today at the 
round table. 

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We have dr. 
Matthew Klein, myself, Nathan 

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Brown, and we're joined with a 
very special guest. 

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Doug Adams, Doug. 
Thank you so much for joining us

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on the podcast today. 
Thanks for having me, I really 

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looking forward to this. 
So we asked, Doug to join us. 

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I have a connection with him 
very like small connection, 

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where we went to the same alma 
mater of the same alma mater for

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physical therapy school both 
went to the University of 

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Delaware. 
He Came before me and paved the 

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way for a lot of stuff and he 
got to work with some amazing 

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researchers in his time when he 
was there at Delaware, which 

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probably is. 
We'll probably hear paved the 

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way into what he's doing now. 
And so Doug, we just want to 

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kick things off and give it to 
you because we want to have 

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people understand where you're 
coming from, from your 

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perspective, what your 
educational background is, and 

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what you're up to now. 
Because today, we are talking 

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all about running mechanics and 
why they matter or why they 

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don't. 
So Doug, tell us a little bit 

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about your Background and what 
got you. 

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Where you are today? 
Yeah, I'm basically like a giant

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running nerd, which is fun. 
I get to spend all day every 

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day, talking about running and, 
and working with Runners. 

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So of all abilities. 
So it's really a lot of fun. 

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But it started just like you're 
saying it. 

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And you know, when we were in 
University of Delaware, my 

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definitely had a little bit of 
who luck and some of my 

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professors and some of the PHD 
candidates are were just 

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amazing. 
I had Irene Davis and Actually 

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were there, and the three of us 
used to do gait analysis all the

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time. 
And I get to be the Lackey, that

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was the one taking as much notes
as I could and trying to write 

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it up. 
And then I would get all those 

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notes, just murdered by red ink,
telling me, you know, everything

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that I was doing wrong but it 
was great learning experience 

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and it really just fueled me and
just showed me how much there is

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to learn about running my 
mechanic. 

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So, I continued on, I did a 
residency. 

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Are University of Delaware and 
then I continued on and kind of 

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started with basement 
biomechanics and doing a lot of 

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analysis, myself and just 
seeing, hey, friends and family,

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can you check out my form? 
And I've been doing some 

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research at the University of 
Delaware, Stood Still, even 

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beyond my time with residency, I
continue to tag up with Joe's. 

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Any was one of the researchers 
Frederico. 

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So we had a chance to do some 
additional research and that's 

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where even started looking at 
more 3D files and started 

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noticing some patterns with 
running and that was the basis 

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for what went on to be the 
courses. 

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And now I teach courses called 
certified running, gait analyst 

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and a lot of that is based off 
of some of the pattern work that

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we found some of the 
presentations even collaborated 

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and did some presentations with 
Rich, Eric Greenberg. 

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Yeah, you know, she mentioned 
Eric Greenberg and Scott 

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Greenberg as well where they Are
Eric, was the resident. 

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Six months ahead of me and is 
it, you know, wealth of 

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knowledge on running as well? 
And his brother Scott, they're 

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both just phenomenal, physical 
therapist. 

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And so that's yeah, that's how I
get started with the teaching. 

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And when I moved on from a lot 
of that and I'm kind of decided 

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to get out of the basement with 
biomechanics started realizing, 

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I missed a lot of 3D analysis 
and I missed having access to 

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the cameras. 
So I decided, Well let me look 

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into systems and maybe I'll buy 
one. 

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Yeah that was a scary trip. 
The internet there and it's like

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I don't have two hundred fifty 
thousand dollars to really eat 

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or start getting this 
information. 

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So at that point I decided Well 
I'll just build my own and 

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that's what we did built. 
The camera system tagged up with

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some software engineers and 
really we're able to get it to 

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be a very Technical analysis 
system, built that to be 

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portable and used in clinic 
started using that and 20, you 

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know, Flash Forward a little bit
2019. 

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We started working with the 
military. 

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We got a bunch of Grants and 
started incorporating and make 

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it even easier to use. 
We added some algorithms to the 

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software and then we built a 
like a web-based platform to go 

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ahead with it. 
And that's kind of what's taking

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me on to the rest of my point. 
Work with a bunch of 

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professional athletes. 
Now, do a lot of work with the 

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military. 
But work with, I have a cache 

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based clinic in Wilmington, 
Delaware. 

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And so, I just get to spread my 
time out between teaching and 

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working with, although, Will 
Runners and developing 

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technology. 
So it's kind of a fun running 

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nerd lifestyle for me, totally 
and Delaware. 

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The people who are prideful 
about being the first state and 

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tax-free shopping. 
Those are likely to take aways 

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of my time in Delaware. 
Yeah, and that they say water or

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not, not not water. 
I'm going to take a drink of 

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water, it will order. 
Yeah, it's my favorite thing. 

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You can identify delawareans 
pretty quickly by that, it's 

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awesome. 
And so, you said you work with, 

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professional athletes and 
professional runners right now. 

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I feel like our audience would 
be curious to hear kind of what 

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that role looks like and kind of
who you're working with. 

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I know the answer to this 
question that's kind of why I'm 

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asking. 
Because I do think it's a, it's 

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a fun job that you've kind of 
worked worked into here. 

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Yeah, it's fun. 
I love my time working with with

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professionals and I love just as
much equally working with the 

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recreational athletes as well. 
And a lot of the things that we 

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do, one of the nice things about
is there's not really much ego 

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and the sport of running. 
So some of my professional 

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athletes unlike I've done a lot 
of work with professional 

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athletes of all different sports
but the runners really are just 

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generally down-to-earth people 
that are some of the nicest 

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people you'll ever be. 
And it just like they come over 

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to my house all the time and 
race my Kids and have fun with 

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them so that, you know, Drew 
Hunter and say I'm Parsons from 

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Tim and Ali will come over and 
give big shoutouts on social 

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media to them and raise them in 
our dining room here. 

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So, I am the team PT for Tim an 
elite, an Adidas, professional 

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running team. 
So I spent a lot of time working

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with those guys and, you know, 
I'm in Delaware, there in 

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Boulder, but we do a lot 
remotely. 

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A lot with their strength, a lot
with injury prevention, injury 

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management. 
We do gait analysis, several 

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times, a year on them. 
That's been a big part when I 

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came onto the team. 
And she's, it's been about two 

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years. 
Now, that I've been working with

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the DEA over two years now, that
I've been working with the team 

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and unfortunately, I came on in 
which every single person was 

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injured and it was just a big. 
Yeah. 

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And that's not entirely unheard 
of for professional running 

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teams and but there was, there 
were a lot of injuries that were

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holding, a lot of people back 
and I take Yeah, a lot of Pride 

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and obviously, you know, they 
have amazing coaching staff and 

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this is by no means taking any 
credit for some of these things.

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There's an amazing staff and the
guys all and girls Torres they 

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all work really hard now but it 
just being able to get them to 

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the point. 
I think we had a realization 

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couple months back that everyone
showed up to attract work out 

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and nobody had to have a 
modification. 

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Everyone was healthy. 
Everyone was ready to go. 

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Go. 
And everyone had just said a PR 

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within the last three months, 
and that was really kind of a 

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pretty cool moment. 
That was just like, wow, you 

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know, we're in from that that 
point is like, in under a year. 

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Like everyone went from being 
injured, you know, can I 

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continue on to being all right? 
Hey, let's all just focus on 

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performance at this point, which
is really pretty cool. 

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Yeah, and I think something you 
said there is so poignant that, 

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you know, working with the elite
athletes, it's really fun, but 

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working with the everyday Runner
in the recreational Runner or 

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locally competitive is just as 
fulfilling because running is so

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unique, where everybody can hit 
something brand-new or achieve, 

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a certain goal. 
And and the, and I've seen the 

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same thing with the runners at 
the highest level are just like 

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the people who aren't running at
the like, I'm gonna try to 

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Olympic qualifier, anything or 
even try to qualify for Boston. 

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They tweet. 
There's just some kind of, 

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there's a character within the 
Running World, which is really a

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fun place to be and that's not 
Oh, of every sport. 

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So, it's kind of a fun fun sport
to be a part of. 

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You know, what I love is that 
you're not just you identify by 

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the sport, like I'm a runner, 
right? 

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It's you don't say, like, I'm a 
basketball player, like, I'm a 

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baseball player all the time, 
like they, like I play 

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basketball or and I play 
baseball type the saying, yeah, 

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it really is something 
identified. 

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We call that at our Clinic we we
call that mentality. 

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Like can't stop won't stop. 
And that's the, you know, that 

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is what we see is that it we 
just We see that people really 

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just don't want to give it up 
and anywhere under. 

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That's been there that's had 
that frustration where they 

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haven't been able to run. 
It's just such a frustrating 

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feeling and you look at the 
whole world, through this lens 

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of, I describe. 
It is like wearing shaded 

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glasses, right? 
You have these yellow tinted 

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glasses, a whole world looks 
like, oh I've got knee pain, so 

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everything you look at. 
Like if I pick up my kid it 

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might hurt my knee. 
I can't squat down or I don't 

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want to go up and down the 
stairs 10. 

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In times today, it's everything 
is just focused on. 

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Will this affect my running or 
not? 

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And that's not a very fun place 
to be. 

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So we what I love and we talked 
about this in our course work. 

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That certified Renegade analyst 
courses is, it's great to have 

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an opportunity to be a hero to 
Runners because you can just 

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really change their life and we 
are running as so many different

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things to different people. 
But nobody wants to take that 

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away. 
And that's really cool. 

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Part of what we get to do. 
Yeah, totally what's amazing to 

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me is that you have these people
of I don't want to use the 

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phrase caliber but like that and
that's definitely not the right 

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word. 
But people of that might have 

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different goals. 
Let's say, so you have somebody,

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like you said, trying to make 
the Olympics Olympic trials, 

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versus somebody trying to run a 
Boston qualifier versus somebody

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trying to run a pups for sub, 
for our marathon, or just trying

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to finish and it's amazing. 
You can have these very 

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different goals that at the same
time are so similar in certain 

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regards and also the psychology 
mentality, That an injury 

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impacts. 
Most people the same way whether

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you're Olympics or trying to run
that sub 3. 

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Those goals are equally 
important to people and it will 

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change the way you look at it. 
You know we all have been there 

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were just now we're grumpy, we 
can't run, we can't do what how 

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we express ourselves to the 
world. 

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Is just a very interesting thing
that I think people can probably

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hopefully find some camaraderie 
in his everybody's been through 

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that and it is kind of normal. 
We have a very high injury rate 

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and running so you're probably 
going to get one of these that 

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we're going to try to help you 
but You may or may not 

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experience one of these at one 
point. 

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So it's everybody goes through 
it, almost every day gets out of

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it, be positive. 
This is part of the I guess 

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character, building and learning
experiences that we go through 

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some of the life, right? 
Like you guys both have kids so 

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I know you go through this every
day going. 

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Yeah. 
You bumped your knee like this? 

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You can get better. 
But this happens, you know, what

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do you learn from it? 
Cool. 

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Well, what we want to do now is 
start to dive into the topic of 

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today, is what are running 
mechanics and what do they mean?

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So we always give us objective 
question 2. 

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Our audience. 
So, our question for everybody, 

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this week is, you know, have you
had a run-in analysis, done? 

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Did you find it helpful? 
Did you not find it helpful and 

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if you didn't find it helpful, 
why not, like what was going on 

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and what did it look like? 
So you can comment below if 

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you're on YouTube or reach out 
to us at doctors are running 

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podcast at gmail.com. 
But yeah. 

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Just, what's your expansively? 
What's your experience with a 

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running analysis. 
But Doug, here's we're going to 

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kind of start to lean on you a 
little bit more. 

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Tell us a little bit about when 
we say running mechanics. 

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What? 
Running mechanics, and then 

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we'll kind of dig into some more
questions after that, because 

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you had started to mention like 
some pattern recognition. 

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But let's just start with a 
simple question. 

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What? 
What are running mechanics? 

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Yeah, running mechanics at a 
very high level overview, or 

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just, you know, your position of
your body as you go through the 

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running motion, right? 
And we're looking at it, you can

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get granular and look at it, 
angle by angle, joint by joint, 

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but it's basically how your body
moves your Movement patterns, 

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and how each person moves 
through space and kind of resist

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the forces acting on their body,
to maintain certain, postures 

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with it. 
And it's this, but it's funny. 

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As you say that, you know, this 
is definitely something that's 

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highly debated, right? 
You could we start talking about

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what those specific mechanics 
are. 

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And when you start saying, hey, 
you know what should each joint 

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be doing or what does this look 
like? 

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Yeah, but it's basically 
synonymous. 

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Thomas, with a lot of people 
call it for running form running

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gait. 
That's what we think of. 

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A lot of times when we think of 
running mechanics there, and 

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when you think about that, you 
kind of just started to talk 

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about the debate that goes on. 
I think the underlying question 

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like, is there a right way to 
run? 

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How do you approach answering 
that question? 

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Or how do you approach it when 
you're working with a runner and

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talking about what you're seeing
in their running mechanics? 

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A lot of times our first 
approach is actually with 

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Runners, letting them understand
that there is no perfect form 

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and that a little bit of change 
can go a long way. 

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I think one of my favorite 
articles that I quote all the 

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time jeez I think it was Stuart 
Orden in 2021. 

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Jos PT, sorry if I got the name 
wrong here with it but it's a 

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bone stress injury article there
and it really talks about like 

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this is it And I I'm Nerdy with 
this stuff. 

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So I do like to quote articles 
to my athletes and a lot of 

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people that get to see me that 
like, they're in it right there 

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body adapt, they want to hear 
it. 

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So basically the article says 
that if you reduce the stress of

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each step by 10% your Bot, you 
can run twice as far before the 

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body's tissues break down. 10%, 
we're not talking about turning 

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everyone into this perfect 
Flawless, Runner. 

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We're talking about a 10% change
and that It's a big difference 

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there and if like twice as far 
right, it's compounding interest

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here because of the sheer number
of steps that we take and the 

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forces that we experience with 
it. 

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If you could say Hey, you can 
make a 10% Improvement and 

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double down on whatever you're 
doing. 

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Like, that should be just a 
given that that's something that

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everyone does. 
All of the time is, you know, 

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looking at how they can get that
10% out of their own running. 

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Yeah, I think that's a really 
interesting and And so now, when

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we start to tie, the idea of 
running mechanics is how we're 

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moving your form. 
However you want to say it. 

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Taking a closer look at, that 
would be considered something 

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like a running analysis and when
you think about running analysis

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you have it. 
The 3D system that you talked 

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about there's two day models and
there's we could we could 

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potentially talk about the 
differences between those two 

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down the line. 
But I think my bigger question 

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is, how do you approach the 
questions about like does does a

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running analysis? 
Help you prevent injury? 

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Help you improve your 
performance, does it help you 

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recover from injury? 
Like what's the utility of a 

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running analysis from what we've
seen in the literature and also 

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00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,800
what you're seeing clinically? 
But I think it really does 

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depend on the person, getting 
the running analysis and what 

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their goals are and what they're
really looking for and because 

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it can be for all of those 
things. 

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It can be for my performance 
perspective from an injury 

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treatment perspective from an 
injury prevention standpoint. 

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And I, you know, the as much as 
we it's I was talking about 

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running as being one of the 
world's oldest sports right then

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00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,200
maybe that and wrestling where 
the first two things that people

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00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,300
really ever did for competition 
here. 

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But what I love about it is that
we still don't know everything 

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about it. 
So I do like to put a little 

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asterisks on it there and say we
have to create these constructs 

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of the best available evidence 
that we have now and how we can 

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use that to help us. 
But we are constantly learning 

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00:17:22,300 --> 00:17:25,500
things about running and we're 
constantly learning things about

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this. 
And I think it's still even hard

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and we're pretty limited on our 
ability to do certain subjects. 

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I know there's that. 
It's studies, you know, we're 

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really confounded by, you know, 
can we do this in a lab that we 

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have to do in the laboratory 
versus running out in the real 

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world and we have to do things. 
So everything's a little bit of 

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a grain of salt but we we do 
have to look at each individual 

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person and understand how we can
have an impact on them in front 

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of us here. 
And so that's kind of a high 

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level and I didn't really answer
your question there and went off

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a little too tangent them that's
how that tangent. 

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Yes so I just like to put that 
little bit on there that there 

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are many different types of gait
analysis out there and they 

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there they can all have utility 
for that and I would I do love 

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to see is that more people are 
seeking gait analysis. 

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Now and add people are starting 
to ask for it. 

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We have like a find a provider 
type thing on our website for 

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all the people and we We're 
getting inquiries were like, 

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hey, where can I find one of 
your providers? 

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00:18:29,100 --> 00:18:32,800
We're getting people that come 
to our website, run DNA.com, and

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00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:34,900
they go in there and say, hey I 
want to find somebody that can 

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do a gain ounces for me. 
We've trained almost 10,000 

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00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,600
people. 
Now to do this, you know, 

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00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,600
through our courses, and we're 
finding that. 

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00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:48,200
So that is a really great thing.
So I think to make one point, I 

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didn't really ask this as the 
question, but I think everyone 

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does need a gait analysis. 
I think it is something that 

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Everyone should get no matter 
whether you're looking for 

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performance Improvement, whether
you're looking for injury 

365
00:19:01,700 --> 00:19:06,000
prevention or injury treatment, 
I think gate is a critical piece

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00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,200
that not everyone is doing. 
And most Runners are really 

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missing that critical piece and 
it's not the only piece right 

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now when we talk in our courses 
here to there and I put a new 

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infographic for kind of a new 
course for getting ready to roll

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00:19:22,900 --> 00:19:27,500
out but it's it's a injury. 
The runner injury profile, and 

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we have to look at every aspect 
of the runner. 

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So if we're looking at 
somebody's running form and 

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technique, but they're getting 
three hours of sleep, a night, 

374
00:19:37,700 --> 00:19:39,800
we're barking up the wrong tree,
right? 

375
00:19:39,900 --> 00:19:42,500
Yeah, we have to look at the 
runner is a whole. 

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00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,400
We have to be able to say, hey 
if you're not working on some of

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00:19:45,408 --> 00:19:48,300
these things, if you don't have 
some foundational mobility and 

378
00:19:48,300 --> 00:19:52,200
some foundational motor control 
and strength, my gate retraining

379
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:53,900
with you is going to be an 
effective here. 

380
00:19:53,900 --> 00:19:55,400
You're not going to be able to 
do what I'm asking. 

381
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,400
You to do. 
And so I do think everyone 

382
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,700
should get a gait analysis, but 
we should also be looking at the

383
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runner holistically about 
everything that goes into why 

384
00:20:05,500 --> 00:20:11,200
injuries happen. 
So I and this is probably the 

385
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,900
other article that I quote the 
most here. 

386
00:20:14,300 --> 00:20:17,900
And when we told you we were 
kind of looking at patterns and 

387
00:20:17,900 --> 00:20:20,900
we started noticing things when 
we were looking at all these 3D 

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00:20:20,900 --> 00:20:24,100
files and we started noticing 
some commonalities of what 

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people were doing. 
It's a hey, you know, I see that

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00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,700
there's a there were about five 
things that people do commonly 

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00:20:31,100 --> 00:20:34,400
and and we started putting this 
together and we kind of put a 

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00:20:34,408 --> 00:20:36,800
constructive why running 
injuries happen. 

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00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:42,000
And this was around. 2013-2014, 
we're putting a lot of stuff 

394
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,800
together. 
And then in 2017, this bertelsen

395
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:50,400
article came out, which was like
why this is such a great 

396
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,200
article, right? 
And this is like, I think I 

397
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,200
almost have this memorized. 
I might put you this a little 

398
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:55,400
bit because I haven't looked at 
it. 

399
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,000
A while here. 
But like, basically they say, 

400
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:02,300
and to talk nerdy here, a little
bit, like we hypothesize that 

401
00:21:02,300 --> 00:21:05,700
running injuries or occurred as 
a result of the runner, 

402
00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:09,800
possessing, multiple risk 
factors and then participating 

403
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,800
in, running to such an extent 
that the structures load 

404
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:18,300
capacity was exceeded that. 
Yeah, is that, yeah, this is the

405
00:21:18,300 --> 00:21:20,900
quote right there and why pretty
close. 

406
00:21:20,900 --> 00:21:24,100
There you are, almost verbatim. 
That was good. 

407
00:21:26,100 --> 00:21:30,100
Yeah, but I look, one of the 
reasons I was excited to have 

408
00:21:30,100 --> 00:21:33,500
you on, Doug was Doug and I 
speak a lot of the same language

409
00:21:33,500 --> 00:21:36,000
part of its, because of our 
background at UD, part of his, 

410
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,700
because I have gone through 
ducts coursework. 

411
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:43,200
So, you know, I have some of the
common background from his 

412
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,800
teaching and I work with Runners
a lot and you're just talking 

413
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:51,700
about sleep strength mobility. 
And what I term that I often use

414
00:21:51,700 --> 00:21:54,400
at the runners that I'm working 
with, in our lab is. 

415
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,800
I, you know, I say, So, you 
know, we could try to change 

416
00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,200
your running form, but unless 
you have the capacity to do, so 

417
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,600
we can't help you get the 
capability to do it. 

418
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,100
So like we have to build the 
capacity to have the mobility 

419
00:22:05,100 --> 00:22:08,200
and strength and motor control. 
Before you can try to change 

420
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,700
running because there's a 
chance, you're running the way 

421
00:22:10,700 --> 00:22:14,000
you are because of the strength 
or Mobility deficits that you 

422
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,500
have. 
So until we change that, we 

423
00:22:16,500 --> 00:22:18,500
can't just say, hey, let's 
change how you run. 

424
00:22:18,500 --> 00:22:21,700
Or like you said, if you're 
sleeping three hours a night or 

425
00:22:21,700 --> 00:22:24,600
not eating anything, for 
whatever Myriad of reasons 

426
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,000
trying to? 
Something to decrease injury 

427
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:31,200
when you have all these other 
risk factors that are bigger 

428
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,200
players potentially in the in 
the puzzle, it's pretty tough. 

429
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:39,800
So yeah, your capacities lower 
to start here but that's even 

430
00:22:39,900 --> 00:22:41,000
more reason. 
Like. 

431
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,900
Okay, so I'll step back and I'll
play a little Devils Advocate, 

432
00:22:43,900 --> 00:22:45,400
right? 
But that's even more reason why 

433
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,300
you should work on your form, 
right? 

434
00:22:47,300 --> 00:22:49,700
Because there's going to be 
times in your life and we do a 

435
00:22:49,700 --> 00:22:52,500
question when I A lot of times 
when I teach short, of course, 

436
00:22:52,500 --> 00:22:57,100
is I started by asking everyone 
if you You saw somebody running 

437
00:22:57,700 --> 00:23:00,200
and you notice something wrong 
with their form and you stop 

438
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,300
them. 
And you said, if you ever been 

439
00:23:01,300 --> 00:23:03,200
injured and they're like, no, 
I've never been injured. 

440
00:23:03,500 --> 00:23:05,900
Would you still change their 
form? 

441
00:23:06,500 --> 00:23:09,100
And it's like, it's a debate, 
right? 

442
00:23:09,100 --> 00:23:11,800
And I think there's, there's 
evidence that we could probably 

443
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,800
save on both sides of that, 
right? 

444
00:23:13,900 --> 00:23:18,800
But I am, I thing is 100%, I 
would change that person's form 

445
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,300
because just because they 
haven't had an injury yet. 

446
00:23:22,300 --> 00:23:25,300
Doesn't mean that at some point?
Their capacity is going to be 

447
00:23:25,300 --> 00:23:27,700
low. 
Word and then when they did get 

448
00:23:27,700 --> 00:23:30,500
three hours of sleep, when they 
did have poor nutrition when 

449
00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:34,800
they did do that, if they have 
that poor form is that going to 

450
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,800
put them over that injury 
Threshold at that point. 

451
00:23:38,300 --> 00:23:41,200
We also know that there's a big 
delay to most injuries, most 

452
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,700
running injuries have a four to 
six week delay, so everyone can 

453
00:23:44,700 --> 00:23:47,200
say like, oh yeah, I'm fine, 
I've been good, like no 

454
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,300
injuries, I didn't change 
anything, all of a sudden like 

455
00:23:49,300 --> 00:23:51,900
that, I got injured, it's like 
what you're doing, four to six 

456
00:23:51,900 --> 00:23:55,600
weeks ago. 
So why not make running for I'm 

457
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,500
technique these mechanics. 
Why not make that an essential 

458
00:23:58,500 --> 00:24:01,600
part of anyone's training and I 
do think it's something that 

459
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:06,100
everyone and I know that there 
are people that will strongly 

460
00:24:06,100 --> 00:24:10,500
disagree with me on that here 
and I am fine. 

461
00:24:10,500 --> 00:24:13,900
I say bring it because I sure 
would love to have that 

462
00:24:13,900 --> 00:24:17,300
discussion and debate with 
people because I always learn 

463
00:24:17,300 --> 00:24:20,600
something when we have that. 
But I do think it's important. 

464
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,100
That people get a gait analysis 
and we address these low-hanging

465
00:24:24,100 --> 00:24:26,500
fruit, right? 
Like we Of this, there's no 

466
00:24:26,500 --> 00:24:28,300
perfect form. 
I'm not trying to get everyone 

467
00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:31,800
to run the same way here, but if
I see something that I know is 

468
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,900
going to that, we've seen in the
literature that is going to 

469
00:24:34,900 --> 00:24:38,700
cause them to have an injury. 
Why would you know, baseball 

470
00:24:38,700 --> 00:24:40,600
player? 
Whose elbow is dropping weight 

471
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,000
low with? 
They're just kind of throwing 

472
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,600
the wall and pushing it every 
like everyone's every coach, 

473
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,800
every person, the world is going
to tell that kind of raises 

474
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:49,600
elbow. 
I get his elbow up above his 

475
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,600
shoulder. 
Why aren't we doing the same 

476
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,900
thing with Rodriguez is kind of 
my question there. 

477
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:56,500
Sure. 
And I think, Think two things on

478
00:24:56,500 --> 00:24:58,400
that one. 
I think we often forget that 

479
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,400
running is a sport with 
technique. 

480
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,500
Like sometimes we take running 
for granted and just saying, oh,

481
00:25:02,500 --> 00:25:04,100
everyone just runs you know? 
No. 

482
00:25:04,100 --> 00:25:08,100
But you can learn how to run. 
Well, that's why running coaches

483
00:25:08,100 --> 00:25:11,000
exist to, you know, there's ways
to train yourself to run. 

484
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:15,600
Well, I think the second thing 
in that, like, the capacity 

485
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,300
capability, should you change 
running? 

486
00:25:17,300 --> 00:25:20,600
Gait, I think you, you can tell 
me if you agree with me or not. 

487
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,500
I think there are some changes 
that are those that will 

488
00:25:24,500 --> 00:25:26,900
decrease the demand And a lots 
of different things. 

489
00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:29,400
There's some changes that will 
decrease the demand on certain 

490
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,600
structures and increase the 
demand on others. 

491
00:25:31,900 --> 00:25:34,600
And depending on what type of 
change that you're trying to 

492
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:38,500
make, what their capacity is for
that change, might matter, 

493
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,400
doesn't mean, you shouldn't 
change their gate, but you have 

494
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,900
to be cautious of which type of 
change you make. 

495
00:25:43,900 --> 00:25:46,100
And if that change is going to 
overload, a tissue that's 

496
00:25:46,100 --> 00:25:50,300
already limited based on like a 
further assessment because you 

497
00:25:50,300 --> 00:25:52,500
could tell me if I'm wrong here 
but a lot of your running 

498
00:25:52,500 --> 00:25:55,300
analysis, doesn't just mean run 
on the treadmill and then we'll 

499
00:25:55,300 --> 00:25:57,900
fix Fix everything its run on 
the treadmill, and we'll do this

500
00:25:57,900 --> 00:25:59,800
and we'll do that. 
And we'll look at this and we'll

501
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,300
look at that. 
Is that, is that true on your 

502
00:26:02,300 --> 00:26:04,300
end? 
Yeah, absolutely. 

503
00:26:04,300 --> 00:26:07,200
We match up a run, a Readiness 
assessment, which looks at 

504
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,300
mobility and motor control. 
We look at loading levels. 

505
00:26:10,300 --> 00:26:13,200
When I do a gait analysis, I do 
an hour and a half session. 

506
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,100
I spend the first 30 to 45 
minutes, just talking to the 

507
00:26:17,100 --> 00:26:20,800
person we cover training, we 
cover sleep, we cover strength, 

508
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,400
you know, strength training, and
we cover goals. 

509
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,400
We cover all of those. 
Different things. 

510
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,300
It's very important that we are 
addressing the whole Runner and 

511
00:26:30,300 --> 00:26:32,200
looking at every single aspect 
of that. 

512
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:37,200
So, if you get a gait analysis, 
you know, like we said, it's not

513
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,700
that everyone has to spend 90 
minutes with you. 

514
00:26:39,900 --> 00:26:42,600
Somebody needs to be talking to 
you about some of that stuff, 

515
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,200
you know, we even do like, quick
screen nights once in a while 

516
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,600
where we just look at people's 
form and we give them, you know,

517
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,300
just a little awareness. 
And we're not even trying to 

518
00:26:49,300 --> 00:26:51,500
change anything, just a little 
awareness of their form. 

519
00:26:51,500 --> 00:26:54,300
So there are many different 
types out there and run or 

520
00:26:54,300 --> 00:26:57,900
should be getting it. 
To speak to your 1.2 about. 

521
00:26:57,900 --> 00:27:00,500
Like we kind of what you were 
saying before. 

522
00:27:00,500 --> 00:27:05,600
That was shifting loads, right? 
Where that we're changing one 

523
00:27:05,700 --> 00:27:09,500
tissue to another for what 
really is doing the work. 

524
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,600
And there is, you know, there 
are tissues that are better 

525
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,900
adapted to handle that now that 
might not be better adapted in 

526
00:27:17,900 --> 00:27:21,200
the individual, somebody that's 
never run a certain way. 

527
00:27:21,900 --> 00:27:25,100
And I use this phrase a lot like
you've become efficient at the 

528
00:27:25,108 --> 00:27:26,200
way. 
You run. 

529
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,700
But it doesn't mean it's the 
most efficient way that you can 

530
00:27:28,700 --> 00:27:33,100
run and it takes time and it 
takes effort to change that. 

531
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,400
But when you adopt that it can 
make a big difference and make a

532
00:27:36,408 --> 00:27:39,500
big impact and we have seen 
support of that in the 

533
00:27:39,500 --> 00:27:41,000
literature. 
It takes about two to three 

534
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,200
weeks. 
You start with a strategy, we're

535
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,700
using every single muscle in 
your body to try to make the 

536
00:27:45,700 --> 00:27:49,100
change metabolically. 
Various feels very hard and then

537
00:27:49,100 --> 00:27:53,200
we start to see a reduction in 
the EMG activity where people 

538
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,000
start to recruit less muscle 
fibers to Now, push the same 

539
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,100
task and it takes about that two
or three week period. 

540
00:27:59,100 --> 00:28:02,100
So everyone's doing like this 
isn't I think the other 

541
00:28:02,100 --> 00:28:04,800
perception of people getting 
again us this is like, oh well 

542
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,300
as soon as they tell me what to 
do I'm just going to be able to 

543
00:28:06,308 --> 00:28:10,000
do that all the time and just 
100% And it's like no we're 

544
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,000
going to do a gate for training 
or going to use the best motor 

545
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,900
learning principles that we can 
to teach you and retain it which

546
00:28:16,900 --> 00:28:19,600
is key to doing a gait analysis 
as well. 

547
00:28:20,700 --> 00:28:22,600
Yeah, and that's that's a good 
point, too, because there are 

548
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,700
studies that show people. 
I mean, there is a when, when a 

549
00:28:25,700 --> 00:28:28,300
lot of the research was looking 
at foot strike pattern, and 

550
00:28:28,300 --> 00:28:31,300
switching foot strike, pattern 
led to a short-term decrease in 

551
00:28:31,300 --> 00:28:34,800
running economy because like you
said, it's this new pattern, 

552
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:39,000
your body is not coordinated to 
do it efficiently yet and so it 

553
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:40,700
takes. 
It takes some time. 

554
00:28:42,100 --> 00:28:45,700
You mentioned something about 
five patterns that emerged that 

555
00:28:45,700 --> 00:28:48,400
you're seeing that are kind of 
potentially more problematic and

556
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,800
that's where I want to go next. 
So, can you tell us about What 

557
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,900
are these five patterns that you
all as you're looking at these 

558
00:28:54,900 --> 00:28:58,700
3D files kind of what were those
patterns that emerged? 

559
00:28:59,500 --> 00:29:01,500
Yeah. 
And it was interesting again to 

560
00:29:01,500 --> 00:29:05,100
saying that it's not that these 
aren't necessarily, the only 

561
00:29:05,100 --> 00:29:08,800
ones that we see and it's not 
that they're necessarily 

562
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:13,800
exclusive where people only see 
a person doing one thing a lot 

563
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:15,900
of times people fit into 
multiple of these. 

564
00:29:15,900 --> 00:29:19,700
But we notice is that there are 
about five common things that we

565
00:29:19,700 --> 00:29:24,900
saw, That really, really got to 
about 90 to 95 percent of 

566
00:29:24,900 --> 00:29:27,800
Runners fell into one of these 
categories. 

567
00:29:28,100 --> 00:29:32,600
And the reason we created these 
categories was for practitioners

568
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,200
who are working with Runners to 
be able to prioritize and focus 

569
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,900
and say because a lot of times 
there's secondary benefits and 

570
00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:44,000
unintended consequences of 
changing somebody's form and we 

571
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,000
should really if you find the 
right cue and you find the right

572
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,200
thing to do, you often find a 
lot of the other stuff cleans up

573
00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:54,700
So the five categories that we 
saw as probably most common 

574
00:29:54,700 --> 00:29:57,900
first, is over Strider. 
This is the person that lands 

575
00:29:57,900 --> 00:30:00,300
way out in front of their body 
and there's a lot of braking 

576
00:30:00,300 --> 00:30:02,700
Force. 
The second, most common one that

577
00:30:02,700 --> 00:30:06,600
we see is collapse sir and this 
is somebody who's losing what we

578
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,700
call the frontal, and transverse
plane battle, they are losing 

579
00:30:10,700 --> 00:30:13,300
gravity Against Gravity and 
you'll see them with their knees

580
00:30:13,300 --> 00:30:16,400
knocking in, you know, these are
the people that kick the insides

581
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,400
of their skin, their hips are 
dropping side to side. 

582
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,000
We're seeing Seeing it can 
happen in a lot of times people 

583
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,300
look at pronation or excessive 
pronation or prolong predation. 

584
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,900
This is where we see a lot of 
the collapsing and then on the 

585
00:30:29,900 --> 00:30:33,000
next part, will also start to 
see the bouncer. 

586
00:30:33,300 --> 00:30:35,900
So this is somebody that has 
excessive vertical oscillation 

587
00:30:35,900 --> 00:30:38,700
up and down. 
The Weaver is a person with a 

588
00:30:38,708 --> 00:30:41,700
very narrow base of support that
they're kind of, like, egg, be 

589
00:30:41,700 --> 00:30:45,400
touring or legs there. 
And then we've got our glute 

590
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,100
Amnesia act that people taking 
their butts for a run so you 

591
00:30:49,100 --> 00:30:50,900
know, they're just leaning back 
Clear this. 

592
00:30:50,900 --> 00:30:56,500
Yeah, that's got out there like 
way back there and those those 

593
00:30:56,500 --> 00:30:58,800
are the typical. 
Those are the five categories 

594
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,700
that we saw. 
We did expand these two 12 

595
00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:05,400
later. 
But yeah, Matt, you're driving 

596
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,100
in there. 
I'm it's interesting to me as 

597
00:31:08,100 --> 00:31:11,500
someone who was very severely 
focused on this when I was in 

598
00:31:11,500 --> 00:31:14,900
college and then learned 
understood by mechanics better. 

599
00:31:14,900 --> 00:31:18,900
And then saw the literature on 
this, that for those interested 

600
00:31:18,900 --> 00:31:22,200
foot strike was not mentioned in
those patterns. 

601
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,000
That was this the biggest thing 
that we continually get going. 

602
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:26,900
Hey, it's this certain foot 
strike pattern. 

603
00:31:26,900 --> 00:31:29,900
Rather than what both Doug and 
Nathan mentioned earlier is 

604
00:31:29,900 --> 00:31:32,600
often done. 
That is a result of mechanics of

605
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,900
higher and there's some 
interesting evidence coming out 

606
00:31:34,900 --> 00:31:36,600
that maybe even due to some 
other things. 

607
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,900
Some it related to your sensory 
system and what have you? 

608
00:31:39,300 --> 00:31:42,000
But it's these bigger Global 
issues that we see. 

609
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,100
Like, I like the idea of the 
collapse, or that makes total 

610
00:31:44,100 --> 00:31:46,400
sense is you're having trouble 
dealing with gravity, 

611
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,700
controlling movement versus 
your. 

612
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,100
Hey, you can see the Of that and
people assume that there's 

613
00:31:52,100 --> 00:31:55,800
there's one extreme that's good 
and that's not really the case. 

614
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,300
And that's really important to 
here is that when we get to into

615
00:31:58,300 --> 00:32:02,500
extremes that's often where we 
have issues, right versus trying

616
00:32:02,500 --> 00:32:04,600
to keep in the middle and going,
how do we keep things balanced? 

617
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,600
Because joint tend to work 
better in mid range, muscles 

618
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,200
provide the greatest amounts of 
forces in the mid-range it just 

619
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,600
it just makes sense. 
So it's nice to hear that. 

620
00:32:14,300 --> 00:32:16,500
For all the people that comment 
on Instagram every take time to 

621
00:32:16,500 --> 00:32:18,100
make a comment or on social 
media. 

622
00:32:18,100 --> 00:32:21,000
When I say like over 70% of 
people are All Strikers like 

623
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,000
there are bigger fish to fry, so
it's just nice to hear that. 

624
00:32:24,700 --> 00:32:28,800
Do you speaking of that, Doug, 
do you want to speak to that at 

625
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,600
all? 
I know, one, one interesting 

626
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,300
part of this is like you did 
research with Irene Davis and if

627
00:32:34,300 --> 00:32:37,300
people know who I read Davis is,
I don't know her. 

628
00:32:37,300 --> 00:32:41,700
Personally, I've only read her 
literature because she was gone 

629
00:32:41,700 --> 00:32:43,300
from Delaware by the time I 
started. 

630
00:32:43,300 --> 00:32:45,900
She had left like a year or two 
before to go to Harvard. 

631
00:32:47,100 --> 00:32:49,900
But do you have thoughts on on 
foot strike patterns and how 

632
00:32:49,900 --> 00:32:56,600
that Is into gate? 
Yes, and Irene is a brilliant. 

633
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,700
Researcher knows reading is 
amazing with that and I think 

634
00:33:00,700 --> 00:33:06,600
she keyed on to a few different 
things and like they call 

635
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,400
researchers. 
You know, we tend to kind of 

636
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,700
focus and I say we liberally. 
I think I'm being generous to 

637
00:33:12,700 --> 00:33:19,400
myself on that. 
But researchers focus on a few 

638
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,500
key metrics because It's really 
hard to prove anything. 

639
00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:25,500
So I think we have to understand
that like to actually get a body

640
00:33:25,500 --> 00:33:28,400
of evidence that you can say 
that there's some knowledge 

641
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,400
around us and we don't 
necessarily prove things, we 

642
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,400
just give supporting knowledge 
to it, right? 

643
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,400
We never really know and we're 
really just always striving for 

644
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,300
that. 
I think that you know, she was 

645
00:33:40,300 --> 00:33:43,800
seeing a lot of these impact 
Peaks and forces and looking at 

646
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:49,000
that and and, you know, I think 
that it would it's very 

647
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,600
interesting that I was able to 
relate that to the the position 

648
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,200
of the foot. 
Now I would say I'm a little bit

649
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,500
more concerned about where the 
foot lands and relationship to 

650
00:34:00,500 --> 00:34:03,300
the body. 
Then necessarily what part of 

651
00:34:03,300 --> 00:34:08,300
the foot hits it there now and 
I, you know, I think any time 

652
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,400
somebody talks about their own 
research and things like we are 

653
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:16,100
always standing on the shoulders
of giants and and things because

654
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,600
hey if I read it never really 
cute into some of these impact 

655
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,900
Peak is. 
And looking at forces and things

656
00:34:21,900 --> 00:34:25,300
like that, then that nothing 
else would go beyond their and 

657
00:34:25,300 --> 00:34:28,199
it was revolutionary and still 
is with that. 

658
00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:31,699
And now we just keep doubling 
down on it to try to find more 

659
00:34:32,900 --> 00:34:38,000
and I think it's really. 
So for me, I'm not as concerned 

660
00:34:38,100 --> 00:34:42,699
about what part of your foot 
hits, the ground, as where it 

661
00:34:42,699 --> 00:34:45,199
lands in relationship to your 
center of mass. 

662
00:34:46,100 --> 00:34:50,100
And I do think that there are 
some different things. 

663
00:34:50,300 --> 00:34:53,600
Don't want to constrain the body
by saying that you have to land 

664
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,100
in a certain position. 
Now that being said it's very 

665
00:34:56,100 --> 00:35:01,300
hard to land on anything but in 
mid you know in a non rear foot 

666
00:35:01,300 --> 00:35:04,300
pattern, the closer you land 
underneath of your body, right? 

667
00:35:04,300 --> 00:35:08,800
So there is some truth that, you
know, and a lot of Truth in what

668
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,600
our reads, their research for 
showing their, you know, that 

669
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:17,400
there are benefits of or there 
are some patterns amongst people

670
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,100
that land on a forefoot strike, 
but it's not guaranteed. 

671
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,800
He'd Just landing on your 
forefoot is not going. 

672
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,400
You know everyone runs and we 
see this all the time lots of 

673
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,600
people come to me because 
they're landing on their fore 

674
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,800
foot but they're landing on 
their fore foot way in front of 

675
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:31,900
them in a heavily soup when a 
position. 

676
00:35:31,900 --> 00:35:34,600
Like I don't know why I'm 
getting like perineal stress 

677
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:39,200
fractures and why I have it band
syndrome it's like well I think 

678
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:48,600
I can tell you there's that's 
probably about my best 

679
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,900
politically correct. 
A to talk about, he'll strike a 

680
00:35:51,900 --> 00:35:54,400
little bit there. 
Ya know what I think that's 

681
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,400
helpful for a lot of reasons. 
Also, I had a runner that I did 

682
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,900
a running analysis on on 
Wednesday of this week and they 

683
00:36:01,900 --> 00:36:04,600
were a very pure forefoot 
Striker. 

684
00:36:04,700 --> 00:36:07,400
But landed with a fully extended
knee way out in front of their 

685
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,100
body. 
And so, you know, like you said,

686
00:36:11,100 --> 00:36:14,800
where it lands compared to 
what's Landing first. 

687
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,100
Might be potentially a little 
bit more importance. 

688
00:36:17,700 --> 00:36:22,300
I also loved how you talked 
about, Just for those, for the 

689
00:36:22,300 --> 00:36:24,800
listeners who are pts and who 
are reading research, and who 

690
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,300
may disagree with a certain 
researcher in their stance, on 

691
00:36:27,300 --> 00:36:29,500
things for the papers, that 
they've written. 

692
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:34,700
If people don't create those 
questions and seek answers to 

693
00:36:34,700 --> 00:36:39,600
those questions, then we don't 
have that data to pull from and 

694
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,800
we don't have, you know, if it 
weren't for some of that early 

695
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,600
research on impact Peaks then we
wouldn't have eventually 

696
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,700
stratified it too high and low 
frequency within, you know, the 

697
00:36:49,700 --> 00:36:52,600
the load. 
Patterns, so there's so much 

698
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,100
that we learn even if it doesn't
end up being the direction that 

699
00:36:57,500 --> 00:36:59,200
teaches us exactly what we 
should do. 

700
00:36:59,300 --> 00:37:02,600
So I loved that perspective that
you brought to that. 

701
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,100
Matt, what do you got? 
I would go on the it's funny 

702
00:37:05,100 --> 00:37:07,700
that you mentioned Irene. 
So and Nathan did the same thing

703
00:37:07,700 --> 00:37:09,200
with me. 
That's actually met is working 

704
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,800
with dr. 
Chris Powers over at USC through

705
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,100
his running course. 
I was part of my fellowship 

706
00:37:14,100 --> 00:37:17,300
stuff and he was very much. 
Oh, forget about the foot, it's 

707
00:37:17,300 --> 00:37:19,300
not completely, but he's like, 
it's all about the glutes. 

708
00:37:19,300 --> 00:37:21,800
It's all about the highwomen. 
Hip and it's we get researchers 

709
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,200
or yeah. 
They lay the foundation but 

710
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,600
oftentimes when you're doing 
this research can only focus on 

711
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,900
one little thing. 
You know Chris and as you guys 

712
00:37:28,900 --> 00:37:33,000
have seen Chris and Irene get 
into it at various conferences 

713
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,200
or they're arguing back and 
forth, then surely Starman 

714
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,500
sitting back there in the back 
making fun of both of them but 

715
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,900
you know it's funny got a they 
bring good points but I think 

716
00:37:41,900 --> 00:37:44,500
for the listener also realize 
that and our students hate this,

717
00:37:44,500 --> 00:37:47,800
but it depends, you got to see 
where in the big picture, does 

718
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,100
this come into play, right? 
And Doug, you mentioned, 

719
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,500
Earlier, when you're looking at 
someone, where are the biggest 

720
00:37:53,500 --> 00:37:55,200
things that need addressing off 
times? 

721
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,400
When you take care of those big 
things, everything falls ways. 

722
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,900
And for some people, it may be, 
you're getting three hours of 

723
00:37:59,900 --> 00:38:03,400
sleep, you're not eating. 
If you fix those things, a lot 

724
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,000
of this is going to fall. 
So finding the biggest 

725
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,000
impairment is really the biggest
thing, that a little kind of 

726
00:38:08,008 --> 00:38:11,600
Kick this all the way down, and 
we often focus on Little Things,

727
00:38:12,100 --> 00:38:13,800
yes, you get great research out 
of it. 

728
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:18,100
But the little these, you have 
to be careful where you overly 

729
00:38:18,100 --> 00:38:20,300
Focus. 
Like even the stuff with the The

730
00:38:20,300 --> 00:38:22,200
impact Peaks, as we're 
discovering now, those are 

731
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,500
important but not in the way we 
thought it. 

732
00:38:24,500 --> 00:38:28,200
The impact, Peaks aren't always 
a associated with injury. 

733
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:29,600
As we've gotten to talk with 
Lauren Mouse. 

734
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,700
Allow, who weave these? 
Finding, where we, I did an 

735
00:38:32,700 --> 00:38:34,900
interview with him at like 3:00 
in the morning my time. 

736
00:38:34,900 --> 00:38:38,300
So I most of it went over my 
head as I do, there's not enough

737
00:38:38,300 --> 00:38:41,300
coffee in this world to do this 
but he was talking about how is 

738
00:38:41,300 --> 00:38:43,100
actually like this type of 
vibration. 

739
00:38:43,100 --> 00:38:46,100
That's part of the impact be 
that has a bigger impact on 

740
00:38:46,100 --> 00:38:47,800
injury and Lauren. 
If you're listening to this, I 

741
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,000
was such a great conversation. 
I was so overwhelmed. 

742
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,600
It but it was. 
Yeah we're going to deeper 

743
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,700
levels and we learn more and 
that's part of getting there and

744
00:38:55,700 --> 00:38:58,800
it's okay this we have to kind 
of think in the big picture. 

745
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,300
What does this mean also? 
That that wasn't a random 

746
00:39:01,300 --> 00:39:04,200
conversation that is a podcast 
that people can go listen to 

747
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:05,000
you. 
So I don't know. 

748
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,800
Right up number podcast, it is 
but it's with Laurette melzar. 

749
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,800
He's a researcher over in 
England are not in England. 

750
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,900
Oh my gosh in Europe. 
Yeah, but I want to go back to 

751
00:39:15,900 --> 00:39:19,100
those five categories that you 
talked about of Runners and just

752
00:39:19,100 --> 00:39:22,700
kind of get your take on. 
On what sort of injuries are you

753
00:39:22,700 --> 00:39:25,100
seeing associated with the 
different categories? 

754
00:39:25,100 --> 00:39:29,700
Or if there is those patterns 
that flow from it, as well, I 

755
00:39:29,700 --> 00:39:34,900
think certain levels that we can
relate certain injuries to 

756
00:39:34,900 --> 00:39:40,300
certain patterns, but I think 
at, I think we could reason. 

757
00:39:40,300 --> 00:39:43,100
Like we were just saying before 
we have to look at the whole 

758
00:39:43,100 --> 00:39:47,500
picture and say, Hey, you know, 
a collapse ER that has a really 

759
00:39:47,500 --> 00:39:51,400
stiff talocrural joint and is 
collapsing with Is you know, why

760
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,100
are they having a specific 
injury related to that? 

761
00:39:54,100 --> 00:39:56,600
I think there needs to be a 
little bit of additional 

762
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:01,900
information as opposed to just 
their gate category about where 

763
00:40:01,900 --> 00:40:06,300
the weak Link in the chain is 
because we can relate where we 

764
00:40:06,300 --> 00:40:09,500
might be putting higher forces. 
Like so the best example is the 

765
00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:13,700
story I tell about a glued 
amnesiac that I met, right? 

766
00:40:13,700 --> 00:40:16,400
So we talked about this glued 
amnesiac and obviously, 

767
00:40:16,700 --> 00:40:20,700
basically the mechanics behind 
that is somebody if we're just 

768
00:40:20,700 --> 00:40:23,400
talking from a pure physics 
standpoint, when somebody leans 

769
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,600
backwards, it reduces the moment
arm. 

770
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,800
So the distance from the center 
of axis of rotation, basically, 

771
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:31,600
for the glutes. 
So they don't have to do as much

772
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,800
work. 
And then what? 

773
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,500
That increases the moment arm 
for the knee, right? 

774
00:40:36,500 --> 00:40:39,700
So now we are putting and it 
stretched on the interior knee. 

775
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,400
So if somebody is running in a 
glute Amnesia type style and 

776
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,200
they're having anterior knee 
pain, it's very easy to relate 

777
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:51,200
that and I had a great story 
where this big he was Chin, 50 

778
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:55,800
CEO had this knee pain and he 
was doing a race with his 

779
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,200
buddies and he like, found out 
that I do gave now sis and he 

780
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:00,600
was like, okay, I'm going to 
this guy. 

781
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:02,100
Like you're treating the pros. 
You doing this? 

782
00:41:02,100 --> 00:41:06,100
I'm going to you so book, like 
two days to my time and said, 

783
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,700
you know, like I'm just I'm 
paying for two days. 

784
00:41:08,700 --> 00:41:12,100
Fix me, I need to win this race.
We go you know, we talked for 

785
00:41:12,100 --> 00:41:14,000
half an hour. 
We do that, we do the runner 

786
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,600
Readiness assessment, so like 45
50 minutes in, we get them up on

787
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,000
the treadmill, I put all the 
sensors on we go. 

788
00:41:20,100 --> 00:41:23,300
I'm going down like this guy's 
like the biggest glutamine Jake 

789
00:41:23,300 --> 00:41:25,700
I've ever seen. 
So I just I hate pretend that 

790
00:41:25,700 --> 00:41:29,400
you're running into the wind or 
running uphill and as before I 

791
00:41:29,408 --> 00:41:31,600
did I asked him what his pain 
was and so then he leaned 

792
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,000
forward, it's like, okay, what 
you pay now is like zero was 

793
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,600
like okay run for another minute
and it was like you know the 

794
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,300
minute 0. 
Then we were in 45, then we went

795
00:41:41,300 --> 00:41:43,900
for 10 minutes is like zero and 
then like the next day you get 

796
00:41:43,900 --> 00:41:48,600
those private jet and flies home
and I get a day off so it was 

797
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,300
great. 
So it We can link that but I 

798
00:41:52,300 --> 00:41:57,200
will say that it is a piece of 
that, you know, somebody with IT

799
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,100
band and I have weaving 
mechanics, you know, we're 

800
00:42:00,100 --> 00:42:03,800
putting tissue on stress and 
we're loading it up type thing 

801
00:42:04,100 --> 00:42:09,200
and the over Strider we can see 
that as that's just a high Force

802
00:42:09,300 --> 00:42:14,600
type mechanic deviation and that
means that whatever really the 

803
00:42:14,608 --> 00:42:17,400
weakest link is thats where 
we're going to see some of that.

804
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:21,400
Whether that be you know, where 
does the Force get off, right? 

805
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,500
And if somebody is leading with 
the very stiff knee is it 

806
00:42:24,500 --> 00:42:27,100
impacting, some of the loading 
structures at the knee or is it 

807
00:42:27,100 --> 00:42:28,800
skipping the name going straight
to the hip? 

808
00:42:28,900 --> 00:42:32,100
They some of that depends on 
their tissue capacity about 

809
00:42:32,100 --> 00:42:36,500
their available motion. 
So I wish that we could say, you

810
00:42:36,508 --> 00:42:39,500
know, all over strike. 
You know anyone with shin 

811
00:42:39,500 --> 00:42:43,500
splints is an over Strider and 
all we have to do for shin 

812
00:42:43,500 --> 00:42:46,600
splints is just get everyone to 
learn to drive their knee and 

813
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,000
you know that 82% of injures get
injured 82. 

814
00:42:50,100 --> 00:42:54,300
Runners get injured every year, 
will go down like five but 

815
00:42:54,300 --> 00:42:56,600
racing, that's not the case we 
do. 

816
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:01,200
That's what gives all of us jobs
and we do know, still need to 

817
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,100
look at the whole picture and at
the whole Runner to really 

818
00:43:04,100 --> 00:43:07,700
identify what is contributing to
that person's particular 

819
00:43:07,700 --> 00:43:10,800
personal injury, so that kind of
brings me to. 

820
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,000
My next question about 
tormented, you have something 

821
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,900
that you wanted to say, Nathan? 
Go, I have a devil's advocate 

822
00:43:16,900 --> 00:43:19,500
question, right now, me, I like 
just want to see what happens. 

823
00:43:19,500 --> 00:43:21,100
No, do It because I'm changing 
the top. 

824
00:43:21,100 --> 00:43:24,500
Okay, so so I have a dog, I have
a challenge for you. 

825
00:43:24,500 --> 00:43:27,700
The first my first off topic is 
I love our profession so much. 

826
00:43:27,700 --> 00:43:30,300
I feel like it wasn't that long 
ago before a lot of people like,

827
00:43:30,300 --> 00:43:33,900
oh, it's this every time and now
we've learned so much real like 

828
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,300
just the capacity of our 
profession and the the 

829
00:43:37,300 --> 00:43:39,400
incredible people that work in 
it to go. 

830
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,400
We need a little bit more 
information that that's just, 

831
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,100
it's amazing to me. 
My question for you is, there's 

832
00:43:45,100 --> 00:43:48,600
a lot of individuals right now 
advocating that hey, you don't 

833
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,000
actually need to change form. 
You just need Improve the body's

834
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,900
ability to tolerate that load. 
And if you can improve that 

835
00:43:53,900 --> 00:43:57,100
capacity, do you necessarily 
need to change form? 

836
00:43:57,100 --> 00:43:59,200
And if you kind of addressed 
this earlier, I'm just I'm going

837
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,300
to throw this out there going 
and this is the reason I ask. 

838
00:44:02,300 --> 00:44:05,000
This is one of my student, what 
group of my students at AP, or 

839
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,400
doing a systematic review right 
now on, get retraining versus 

840
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:10,700
strength training and they 
found, I won't say what the 

841
00:44:10,700 --> 00:44:11,800
answer is. 
But they found some very 

842
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,600
interesting things. 
I'm curious. 

843
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,700
What you think on that topic? 
I know, it depends. 

844
00:44:17,700 --> 00:44:19,900
Yeah, just it the best if I can 
pull something out. 

845
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,700
Out, my first response is like 
well why wouldn't you just do 

846
00:44:23,700 --> 00:44:26,500
both? 
You know, that's that's the 

847
00:44:26,500 --> 00:44:30,100
reality of the world is and 
that's like what I do with all 

848
00:44:30,100 --> 00:44:32,000
my Runners is we're going to do 
both right. 

849
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:33,400
Why? 
Why just do one. 

850
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:37,600
And I don't want I like I'm like
I said for the professional 

851
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:39,800
runners that I work with, I do 
their strength stuff. 

852
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:44,700
Like I am very Pro strength for 
runners and I think we need to 

853
00:44:44,700 --> 00:44:46,100
do heavy strength and I love 
this. 

854
00:44:46,100 --> 00:44:49,000
Like not not of it but like 
three sets of 15 isn't going to 

855
00:44:49,008 --> 00:44:52,200
get you as much as Somebody 
doing like heavy we you know 

856
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,400
four sets of four four sets of 
six heavy loaded up. 

857
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,400
Like I'm a big advocate for 
both. 

858
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,500
So there's a couple points that 
we make there specifically to 

859
00:45:01,500 --> 00:45:05,200
your topic, right that we say. 
And, you know, I've heard this 

860
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,300
also called increasing the 
envelope of function, right. 

861
00:45:08,300 --> 00:45:12,600
We want to broaden their bucket 
where they can put more stress 

862
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:16,300
on their, right. 
And I think that that can be 

863
00:45:16,300 --> 00:45:19,900
effective and is effective for a
lot of people, but I don't think

864
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:24,400
Think that that's all we should 
do and we can't just stop there.

865
00:45:24,500 --> 00:45:28,300
I think we need to continue on 
now because we do know a couple 

866
00:45:28,300 --> 00:45:30,800
of things. 
One is that strengthening 

867
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:35,100
doesn't change for right? 
This has been will reach. 

868
00:45:35,100 --> 00:45:37,700
Thank you Irene? 
Yes, I read and Rich. 

869
00:45:37,700 --> 00:45:39,800
That's, this is studying. 
Yeah, work it odd. 

870
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:41,500
That was their study. 
Yeah. 

871
00:45:42,100 --> 00:45:43,000
Yeah. 
It's a great, what? 

872
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:44,900
Right? 
They, you can increase the 

873
00:45:44,900 --> 00:45:49,200
strength of the hip abductors 
and they can truly show 

874
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,300
strength. 
And then there's no change in 

875
00:45:52,300 --> 00:45:56,400
their form, their hip mechanics 
and it made sense. 

876
00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:00,100
No chain, right? 
Like we know that it activates 

877
00:46:00,100 --> 00:46:01,900
different areas of the murder 
cortex. 

878
00:46:01,900 --> 00:46:05,300
Our brain doesn't respond the 
same way to strength training as

879
00:46:05,300 --> 00:46:10,400
it does skill training. 
And so I would say, you know, 

880
00:46:10,500 --> 00:46:15,000
it's would be interesting and 
maybe I'll throw it back on you 

881
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,400
here because if your students 
were just doing a symptomatic 

882
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,000
review, I'm going back to my 
question earlier. 

883
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,400
And I don't know the answer that
I've complained, this is an 

884
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,600
original thought just thinking 
right now, you know, what would 

885
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:28,600
it take? 
If we go back to the ward and 

886
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,000
10% article, you need to reduce 
the stress 10%. 

887
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:38,900
What would it take time wise to 
reduce 10% of your stress on 

888
00:46:38,900 --> 00:46:43,000
your body with gait analysis? 
Versus how long would it take to

889
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,800
build up a 10% Improvement in 
tissue capacity? 

890
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:52,000
And, you know, just looking at 
that from A Time standpoint 

891
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,600
here. 
And again, I think the answer is

892
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:56,600
really that it should be both, 
right? 

893
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:58,700
Like we shouldn't be doing one 
or the other we should be doing 

894
00:46:58,700 --> 00:47:02,800
both, but it would be really 
interesting maybe if somebody 

895
00:47:02,900 --> 00:47:05,900
like from the strength world and
from the gate world was like, 

896
00:47:05,900 --> 00:47:08,500
well you could like this is what
it would take to do that. 

897
00:47:08,500 --> 00:47:13,100
I would love to see that that 
topic explored. 

898
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,800
So I think it goes back. 
You actually gave the answer 

899
00:47:16,900 --> 00:47:20,300
earlier in terms of. 
Yeah so I'll give the Answer is 

900
00:47:20,300 --> 00:47:22,700
that what they found is? 
There's there's very little 

901
00:47:22,700 --> 00:47:24,700
research, what little research 
is out. 

902
00:47:24,700 --> 00:47:27,200
There is the same conclusion. 
You said, you get need to do 

903
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,600
both, why would you not do that,
right? 

904
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:33,600
There's different reasons for 
it, but I both are important for

905
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,000
different reasons, both for an 
increase in the oven of a 

906
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:37,500
function. 
But I also think there is 

907
00:47:37,500 --> 00:47:39,800
something to be said for form 
because you said earlier where 

908
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:43,600
you're going, you know, all 
these tissues can handle on. 

909
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,600
You can improve that. 
But there are certain tissues 

910
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,700
that are probably going to do a 
little bit better than others. 

911
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,200
And there's going to be Human 
variation, but definitely that's

912
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,300
what they found is do both. 
So I appreciate you letting me 

913
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,100
poke it down, you on that one 
when we do one thing, we haven't

914
00:47:58,100 --> 00:47:59,800
gotten into yet. 
I don't want to hijack. 

915
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,700
This here is like the 
performance side, right? 

916
00:48:02,700 --> 00:48:05,400
And while we're talking about 
this, and we really haven't 

917
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,600
brought up the term running 
economy, which is a very 

918
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:13,400
important term and concept. 
So yeah, I don't know if you 

919
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,700
want to go into this. 
Now we're go. 

920
00:48:16,900 --> 00:48:18,400
I have two. 
I basically have two other 

921
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,600
questions that I want to hit. 
So let's do it, go for it. 

922
00:48:21,700 --> 00:48:24,900
So I mean running economy and 
from the performance standpoint,

923
00:48:24,900 --> 00:48:26,100
right? 
Because we said that that 

924
00:48:26,100 --> 00:48:27,200
professional team that I work 
with. 

925
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,500
Not only were they, injury-free,
but everyone had said a PR 

926
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:33,200
recently there. 
And again, can't take all the 

927
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:38,100
credit, you know, the hunters 
amazing coaches, great job with 

928
00:48:38,100 --> 00:48:40,200
that everybody on my team is 
work great. 

929
00:48:40,300 --> 00:48:44,100
But yeah, I do think one of, 
I'll say from an injury 

930
00:48:44,100 --> 00:48:46,700
standpoint related to 
Performance, one of the best 

931
00:48:46,700 --> 00:48:49,300
ways to get better at running is
to be consistent. 

932
00:48:49,900 --> 00:48:52,200
Yeah, have to be consistent, 
right? 

933
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:54,600
Like that is just the number one
thing. 

934
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:58,400
It's not any one workout. 
There's not anything that you do

935
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,800
crazy. 
I am with these guys right eye, 

936
00:49:01,808 --> 00:49:05,100
and I work with this team, but I
do work with professional 

937
00:49:05,100 --> 00:49:08,800
runners from all over my. 
Even get to kick out and go to 

938
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,500
st. 
Moritz Switzerland and work with

939
00:49:11,500 --> 00:49:14,300
this high altitude training camp
and do some fun stuff there. 

940
00:49:14,300 --> 00:49:17,800
It's blast, but I've worked with
some of the best runners in the 

941
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,900
world and I watch them. 
I'm literally there. 

942
00:49:20,900 --> 00:49:23,800
It's this little mountain town 
and there's a track in the 

943
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,300
middle of the Alps and you're 
watching all the world's best 

944
00:49:26,300 --> 00:49:29,700
Runners like running around a 
track and it's like they're 

945
00:49:29,700 --> 00:49:32,100
doing the same workouts. 
I watching them that like their 

946
00:49:32,100 --> 00:49:34,600
workouts. 
Don't bury all that much. 

947
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,100
One person to the next. 
Yeah, there's some tweaks in 

948
00:49:37,100 --> 00:49:41,700
this mire level stuff and I'm 
oversimplifying a very Noble and

949
00:49:42,500 --> 00:49:46,300
very interesting profession in 
the running coach, like, I don't

950
00:49:46,300 --> 00:49:48,600
want to like reading coaches, 
have great and they're do great 

951
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:51,700
things, and a lot of that. 
It's personalization but you 

952
00:49:51,700 --> 00:49:55,700
know going back. 
Sorry, small tangent there, but 

953
00:49:55,700 --> 00:49:58,300
it's just consistency is most 
important. 

954
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:02,300
And so we talked about this from
a gait analysis perspective and 

955
00:50:02,300 --> 00:50:05,200
running economy now. 
And the reason I went with that 

956
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:08,900
though is I think a lot of 
literature says that the 

957
00:50:08,900 --> 00:50:11,300
strength training helps a little
bit more with the running 

958
00:50:11,300 --> 00:50:14,500
economy. 
I think running form, has it 

959
00:50:14,500 --> 00:50:18,500
been as well? 
Studied related to running 

960
00:50:18,500 --> 00:50:20,900
economy the split Strength is 
really important. 

961
00:50:20,900 --> 00:50:24,200
So as we should do both right we
should really be working on both

962
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:26,400
aspects of that there. 
I would say there has been a 

963
00:50:26,408 --> 00:50:27,700
lot. 
I just realized that you're 

964
00:50:27,700 --> 00:50:29,800
totally right. 
There's been a lot more research

965
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:35,500
on running economy and strength 
training but not so much on gate

966
00:50:35,700 --> 00:50:38,600
and I think I would my guess 
would be a lot of that. 

967
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:41,900
Like the quote unquote, perfect 
form research stopped in the 

968
00:50:41,908 --> 00:50:43,200
90's. 
That's because they were looking

969
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:46,700
at all these Elite Runners and 
trying to find its qivana. 

970
00:50:46,700 --> 00:50:49,200
I think it's his name. 
That was literally looking at 

971
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,600
all these Runners trying to find
the single movement pattern that

972
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:55,000
was perfect and they couldn't 
find anything so they just gave 

973
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:59,100
up instead of going, okay? 
Are there any other factors, 

974
00:50:59,100 --> 00:51:01,000
right? 
Can we, can we see what if we 

975
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,500
change this for this person so 
that for the next next group of 

976
00:51:04,500 --> 00:51:06,500
researchers that my for anybody 
working, you know, thinking 

977
00:51:06,500 --> 00:51:10,000
about doing research or PhD? 
I don't which let me finish my 

978
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:11,200
before I encourage you to do 
that. 

979
00:51:12,500 --> 00:51:14,400
I don't know. 
But I don't know why I how like 

980
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:17,100
I'm still awake right now 
because I'm not sleeping enough 

981
00:51:17,100 --> 00:51:20,300
and injuries but yeah I think 
that'd be the Syria to kind of 

982
00:51:20,308 --> 00:51:21,700
go. 
Hey, is there something we 

983
00:51:21,700 --> 00:51:23,400
haven't unlocked as their 
potential there? 

984
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:25,600
Because it hasn't been looked at
a lot, right? 

985
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:27,300
And then look at the combo, 
right? 

986
00:51:27,300 --> 00:51:29,700
Compare the to put the combo 
together. 

987
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:33,000
I mean, you could get, I mean, 
that's, that's kind of a fun 

988
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:34,600
thing. 
And some of the people using 

989
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:38,800
our, our 3D device, it is really
quick and easy to use. 

990
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:43,100
So it's fast and we do have like
the Air Force's, using it for 

991
00:51:43,100 --> 00:51:46,800
some research with some Marathon
studies and they are looking 

992
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:50,200
actually at some economy things.
With that. 

993
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,800
So we are looking at some of 
those because they're doing VO2 

994
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:56,500
max testing at the same time as 
they're doing gait analysis 

995
00:51:56,500 --> 00:51:59,100
study. 
So it's yeah, but I think that's

996
00:51:59,100 --> 00:52:00,900
we need way more evidence on 
that. 

997
00:52:00,900 --> 00:52:04,100
Again, we have to kind of say, 
like, I've got this person in 

998
00:52:04,100 --> 00:52:06,600
front of me, I still need to do 
something. 

999
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:10,400
Just don't speak to boldly about
what you're going to deliver 

1000
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,700
with some of that. 
But say, Hey, you know, we need 

1001
00:52:13,700 --> 00:52:19,300
to do this and I do think that 
form is important for 

1002
00:52:19,300 --> 00:52:20,300
performance. 
Mormons. 

1003
00:52:20,700 --> 00:52:25,300
I think that again, it doesn't 
have to be perfect, and I don't 

1004
00:52:25,300 --> 00:52:31,600
always expect even people to be 
to be doing the form the entire 

1005
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:33,400
time. 
I professional athletes, I tell 

1006
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,700
them, don't worry about this 
during a race right now, I'll 

1007
00:52:36,700 --> 00:52:39,800
yell at them during races to to 
like change our form a little 

1008
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,300
bit yellow. 
One of my guys, I have this 

1009
00:52:42,300 --> 00:52:53,400
weird Q like choo choo arms to 
get him like to get his Is that 

1010
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:58,400
being said and I'm on the side 
of the track Choo-Choo arms to 

1011
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:02,400
too hard. 
This fall guys crazy. 

1012
00:53:03,500 --> 00:53:08,300
But yeah, it's it's I think the 
performance of that. 

1013
00:53:08,300 --> 00:53:13,500
So, have you sorry? 
Another quick table in here Duty

1014
00:53:13,500 --> 00:53:16,100
Factor duty cycle. 
I have you seen some of the 

1015
00:53:16,100 --> 00:53:20,100
recent evidence about their 
about that actually One of the 

1016
00:53:20,300 --> 00:53:24,100
larger predictors of why people 
get injured is a given. 

1017
00:53:24,700 --> 00:53:27,200
Yeah. 
So give us a little synopsis of 

1018
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:29,600
what his duties. 
I have Alan, I have difficulty 

1019
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,100
keeping a straight face when I 
either talk about it or read 

1020
00:53:32,100 --> 00:53:33,700
about that but yes, this is 
really important. 

1021
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:37,600
Yes, dou, T dou, UT y. 
Yeah. 

1022
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:40,800
Yes. 
So what they're basically 

1023
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,800
saying. 
So this is the time on the 

1024
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:47,000
ground versus the time spent in 
the air. 

1025
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:51,400
So with running, there's a 
period of flight And so, we are 

1026
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,500
obviously seeing that a 
different speeds this Duty 

1027
00:53:54,500 --> 00:53:57,100
factor is going to be different,
right? 

1028
00:53:57,100 --> 00:53:59,800
Because if you're running 
slower, and you're not going to 

1029
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,300
be spending as much time in the 
air, so there's going to be a 

1030
00:54:02,300 --> 00:54:05,200
change in that. 
And what they found is that when

1031
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:12,400
people run faster, if there's a 
significant variation from their

1032
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:16,000
slow speed to their fast speed, 
that they're at more risk of 

1033
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:20,400
injury and the way I, this is my
interpretation. 100% mine. 

1034
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,100
This is not the authors of that 
papers present like 

1035
00:54:23,100 --> 00:54:26,400
interpretation. 
But my thought is is and this is

1036
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:29,200
what I focus on with a lot of my
professional runners is a well 

1037
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:33,100
that tells me that we're not 
preparing our body for the 

1038
00:54:33,100 --> 00:54:36,000
higher forces when you're 
running slow, if we're sloppy 

1039
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,000
with our mechanics when we run 
slow, and we should try to 

1040
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,600
reduce the variance in some of 
those movement patterns there 

1041
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:46,400
with slower running so that 
we're able to prepare ourselves.

1042
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:48,900
Because if you're doing a 
complete, if somebody is, you 

1043
00:54:48,900 --> 00:54:52,000
know, Complete over stride or 
just to use my terminology here 

1044
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,400
right there, an over Strider. 
The land away in front of their 

1045
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:58,100
body when they're doing their 
long easy, slow rubs right. 

1046
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:00,200
And then all of a sudden they 
get on the track and they start 

1047
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:05,600
doing 400 or 600 repeats and now
they're like a 4-foot striker 

1048
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:08,700
and their change it. 
Their body is not prepared for 

1049
00:55:08,700 --> 00:55:13,000
that movement pattern at all 
especially compared to, like, 

1050
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,100
when they're now putting higher 
forces on it. 

1051
00:55:15,100 --> 00:55:19,600
So, I think it's, it's 
interesting and again, just I 

1052
00:55:19,608 --> 00:55:23,600
love that. 
That's a very newer concept I 

1053
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:26,200
think that we're not seeing it. 
Luckily actually when that 

1054
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,600
article came out we I had been 
studying that for about 18 

1055
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:31,700
months. 
I've been looking at Duty factor

1056
00:55:31,700 --> 00:55:35,400
and Runners and had been 
studying that with we started 

1057
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:38,400
measuring it as a variable with 
our 3D software. 

1058
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,100
And it's, and we've been looking
at and then this article came 

1059
00:55:41,100 --> 00:55:44,600
out and I was like that even 
took our understanding of it to 

1060
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:46,700
a different level, which was 
very cool. 

1061
00:55:46,700 --> 00:55:50,400
So, there's a lot with 
performance and And injuries, 

1062
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,400
and it's like all tied together,
right? 

1063
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:56,300
Like, we can't really separate 
injury, prevention, injury, 

1064
00:55:56,300 --> 00:55:59,100
treatment, and performance, it's
all part of it. 

1065
00:55:59,100 --> 00:56:01,200
And we all just need to be 
focusing on our Forum. 

1066
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:03,800
Yeah. 
And just to kind of reiterate 

1067
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:07,500
the the duty Factor difference 
within an individual. 

1068
00:56:07,500 --> 00:56:10,400
You're saying that at the slow 
pace has if they were on the 

1069
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:12,900
ground I'm just going to say I'm
going to say random numbers. 

1070
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:15,700
Yeah that at slow pace has there
on the ground 50 percent of the 

1071
00:56:15,700 --> 00:56:18,900
time and then at fast-paced is 
they were ten percent of the 

1072
00:56:18,900 --> 00:56:20,400
time. 
That's A bigger difference than 

1073
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:24,500
someone who's 20 percent at 
their slow pace and 10% at their

1074
00:56:24,500 --> 00:56:27,300
Fast Pace in that larger 
difference is the Writ potential

1075
00:56:27,300 --> 00:56:32,700
risk factor there. 
And I think something that is 

1076
00:56:32,700 --> 00:56:36,000
being pushed right now. 
In general, by the running 

1077
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:38,000
Community is running slow, 
right? 

1078
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:39,600
So it's like, run slow to get 
fast. 

1079
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:42,700
It's kind of this common thing 
and I think when I work with the

1080
00:56:42,700 --> 00:56:46,400
runners that I do in coaching 
and watching them is the big 

1081
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:48,100
challenge is running. 
Slow doesn't mean running 

1082
00:56:48,100 --> 00:56:50,400
sloppy. 
It's How do you run slow? 

1083
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,400
Well, that's also a skill that 
you have to develop and I hadn't

1084
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,800
thought about Duty Factor as 
that, you know, like being being

1085
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,900
light on your feet even if 
you're going really slow and not

1086
00:56:59,900 --> 00:57:01,000
just logging you're right 
through it. 

1087
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,600
So that's really helpful. 
I'm glad you brought that up but

1088
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:06,100
I do have two more questions 
that I want to ask. 

1089
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:07,700
Matt, do you have something 
quick? 

1090
00:57:08,100 --> 00:57:10,900
Yeah, my comment is with the way
we're talking about. 

1091
00:57:10,900 --> 00:57:15,100
This is form really the right 
word or if I know maybe for the 

1092
00:57:15,100 --> 00:57:19,300
public maybe but for the rest of
us is it not movement control? 

1093
00:57:19,500 --> 00:57:22,500
Right motor control movement 
control as it relates to running

1094
00:57:22,700 --> 00:57:25,600
might be the better term. 
Yeah, right sighs. 

1095
00:57:25,900 --> 00:57:28,200
Yeah, yeah. 
I agree with that right. 

1096
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:31,300
It's my think form is one of 
these things that we just 

1097
00:57:31,300 --> 00:57:35,800
default to is in Gate, you know,
gate analysis and running form 

1098
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:39,000
and and the sayings but it is 
motor control, right? 

1099
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:42,200
Because motor control is not 
even necessarily just purely 

1100
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:46,500
strength or anything else. 
It is actually looking at, you 

1101
00:57:46,500 --> 00:57:48,800
know, just like our control over
a movement, right? 

1102
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:52,700
Which You know, I just reversed 
a word to Define it but you 

1103
00:57:52,700 --> 00:57:56,400
know, it is, it does speak a 
little bit more to what we're 

1104
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:00,100
looking for with running and for
that aspect and I agree. 

1105
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:03,700
Yeah, cool. 
So my next question, when we go 

1106
00:58:03,700 --> 00:58:07,700
back to your, you know, 
categories of ways that people 

1107
00:58:07,700 --> 00:58:11,700
run when you think about that 
and then somebody might realize,

1108
00:58:11,700 --> 00:58:15,000
oh, I am over-striding or I am 
collapsing, are they starting to

1109
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:18,000
do some self analysis? 
And then they're like, I want to

1110
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:19,300
actually change this. 
What? 

1111
00:58:19,500 --> 00:58:23,100
Take on people trying to change 
their own gate or who should 

1112
00:58:23,100 --> 00:58:24,100
they? 
You know, what's your 

1113
00:58:24,100 --> 00:58:25,700
recommendation? 
If you don't think they should, 

1114
00:58:25,700 --> 00:58:29,000
who should they be working with?
Or is it just safe to go, try 

1115
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:30,400
stuff? 
What's your take on that? 

1116
00:58:31,700 --> 00:58:35,500
So, we talked about running 
being a skill earlier right now,

1117
00:58:35,500 --> 00:58:39,000
100% agree with that. 
And I think it's actually much 

1118
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,100
more skilled Than People 
realize. 

1119
00:58:41,500 --> 00:58:45,100
So, if you look at something 
like learning to swing a golf 

1120
00:58:45,100 --> 00:58:47,400
club, right? 
Everyone is a like, that's a 

1121
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:51,400
really highly skilled activity. 
I would say running as hard or 

1122
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:56,200
and the reason that is is 
because golfing is a discrete 

1123
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:58,700
movement. 
There's a definitive start and 

1124
00:58:58,700 --> 00:59:03,000
stop to it so you can break the 
movements down of that and then 

1125
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:05,400
you can reset and go with 
running. 

1126
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:08,700
It's a continuous movement. 
So you go right from one step to

1127
00:59:08,700 --> 00:59:14,100
the next to the next and I think
the reason that running form 

1128
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:16,900
motor control is at issue there,
right? 

1129
00:59:16,900 --> 00:59:21,000
Is that people don't know. 
With they're doing right there. 

1130
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:25,400
It's study that we we talk about
all the time is that they looked

1131
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:28,800
at Masters and Collegiate 
Runners and 50% couldn't even 

1132
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:31,200
tell you what part of the foot 
at the ground first. 

1133
00:59:31,300 --> 00:59:34,100
We don't have feedback about 
that, right? 

1134
00:59:34,100 --> 00:59:37,000
Your feedback is not oh I ran 
faster right? 

1135
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:39,500
That's that's not the feedback 
that we're looking for. 

1136
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:42,900
We're looking for the feedback 
of like how did your body move? 

1137
00:59:42,900 --> 00:59:46,500
What did we see with this like 
how much energy did it take? 

1138
00:59:46,500 --> 00:59:48,600
How much stress was put on your 
body? 

1139
00:59:48,900 --> 00:59:51,400
You know, we And all this time 
trying to calculate training 

1140
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:53,600
load on the training side of 
things, right? 

1141
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:56,900
And and try to look at the 
internal loads, right? 

1142
00:59:56,900 --> 00:59:59,600
We have internal and external 
loads but like looking at those 

1143
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:03,500
loads on our body, it's really 
hard to know how that is. 

1144
01:00:03,500 --> 01:00:09,200
So to too long-winded answer 
there to what you were saying is

1145
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:12,000
that I do think that you need 
some guidance with this. 

1146
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:15,400
I do think you need somebody 
that can help you out and at 

1147
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:21,100
very least, like maybe you can 
start to Film yourself, just get

1148
01:00:21,100 --> 01:00:25,000
like a cheapo tripod and, and 
look from the side and and see 

1149
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,500
if you can notice a difference 
in some of your form. 

1150
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:32,400
But I will say that there can be
those unintended consequences 

1151
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:35,800
and if you're not looking out 
for some of those things you 

1152
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:39,700
might wind up, just shifting, 
the chairs on the deck of the 

1153
01:00:39,700 --> 01:00:42,700
Titanic here and putting it from
one place to another. 

1154
01:00:43,700 --> 01:00:45,800
And you might want to know about
the different injuries. 

1155
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:51,600
Yeah, it really can. 
Can you need like one of the 

1156
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:54,600
things I address over-striding 
with a lot of people? 

1157
01:00:55,300 --> 01:00:57,400
And one of the first things 
you'll see is like as soon as 

1158
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:00,000
they fix you over-striding. 
While said they turn into like 

1159
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:02,100
the world's biggest glute 
amnesiac, right? 

1160
01:01:02,100 --> 01:01:04,600
And if you don't know how to 
look for that, and if you 

1161
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:06,900
haven't seen that and you're not
working with somebody trained 

1162
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:11,900
like you do just need to be 
careful that you because another

1163
01:01:11,900 --> 01:01:14,600
fact that we said earlier is a 
little like most statement. 

1164
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:17,300
We said it takes four to six 
weeks for some of these injuries

1165
01:01:17,300 --> 01:01:20,100
to present. 
So I do recommend I am in 

1166
01:01:20,100 --> 01:01:25,800
working with somebody that has, 
you know, at least is looking at

1167
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,700
it in, slow motion. 
And so, and things down and 

1168
01:01:28,700 --> 01:01:31,900
looking at that, you know, 
ideally, you get 3D to 

1169
01:01:31,900 --> 01:01:36,700
understand the benefit of the 3D
is not just that we can slow 

1170
01:01:36,700 --> 01:01:38,900
things down, but we actually 
didn't get numbers on 

1171
01:01:38,900 --> 01:01:41,600
everything, but we're looking at
everything all at once all 

1172
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:44,600
together, right? 
So we're looking at every plane,

1173
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:48,900
every interaction, we're looking
at that all at once, and that's 

1174
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:51,200
helpful as well. 
But there are things that we can

1175
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:55,900
look at from a 2d perspective. 
But I do I know I'm going to 

1176
01:01:56,500 --> 01:02:03,200
irritate some people with this, 
but I don't don't always trust 

1177
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:05,600
the person that's just looking 
at you with their eyes and I 

1178
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:07,600
know exactly what's wrong with 
you there, right. 

1179
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:10,900
There's our eyes only see 16 
frames per second. 

1180
01:02:10,900 --> 01:02:14,300
There's something called brain 
sponging, where our brain fills 

1181
01:02:14,300 --> 01:02:17,400
in the information that wanted 
wants to see now. 

1182
01:02:17,700 --> 01:02:21,400
So like as a Many, as I've 
looked at thousands of Runners. 

1183
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:25,900
I'm still at least going to slow
it down on 2D and look at it 

1184
01:02:25,900 --> 01:02:27,900
there. 
So just a little word of caution

1185
01:02:27,900 --> 01:02:30,700
and I probably pissed off about 
half of your listeners here 

1186
01:02:30,700 --> 01:02:35,400
saying, actually that brings me 
into exactly into my last 

1187
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:40,000
question for you before we kind 
of wrap things up and it's, you 

1188
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:43,100
know, on this podcast, we have a
lot of listeners who are 

1189
01:02:43,100 --> 01:02:44,700
Runners, who go to running 
stores. 

1190
01:02:44,700 --> 01:02:47,100
We also have a lot of people who
work at running stores. 

1191
01:02:47,100 --> 01:02:49,100
We also have a lot of running 
store owners. 

1192
01:02:49,300 --> 01:02:52,600
Who listen to this podcast and 
it's not uncommon to go to a 

1193
01:02:52,608 --> 01:02:56,100
running store and have them. 
Watch, you walk or run, whether 

1194
01:02:56,100 --> 01:02:59,000
it Barefoot or with shoes on and
then using that information to 

1195
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,100
say then you should get this 
kind of shoe. 

1196
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:06,100
And so I guess we're not afraid.
I think we are in the business 

1197
01:03:06,100 --> 01:03:09,100
at doctors of running of trying 
to work with running store 

1198
01:03:09,100 --> 01:03:12,900
workers and owners to help them 
know the best information for 

1199
01:03:12,900 --> 01:03:15,300
them to actually help the people
coming through the doors because

1200
01:03:15,300 --> 01:03:18,500
that's what they really want. 
And we've said it before that 

1201
01:03:18,500 --> 01:03:22,800
about too. 
And error analysis only and how 

1202
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:24,300
much you're trained to see these
things. 

1203
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:26,900
All right I'm going on too much 
of a tangent is going to ask my 

1204
01:03:26,900 --> 01:03:30,000
question, based on your 
information. 

1205
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:32,700
There's obviously a difference 
between seen with your eyes or a

1206
01:03:32,708 --> 01:03:35,500
quick screen in like a running 
store and then what you're 

1207
01:03:35,500 --> 01:03:38,600
talking about with 
conglomerating Mobility, 

1208
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:42,000
strength, training patterns, 
sleep nutrition. 

1209
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:44,300
Like that's a lot more depth 
than just going to a running 

1210
01:03:44,300 --> 01:03:47,800
store and picking a shoe. 
But with your evaluations what 

1211
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:49,200
are you starting to see? 
Are you? 

1212
01:03:49,300 --> 01:03:51,500
Or are you seeing any patterns 
of, hey, I'm starting to see 

1213
01:03:51,500 --> 01:03:53,300
these things. 
This is what you might want to 

1214
01:03:53,308 --> 01:03:56,100
think about. 
From a shoe perspective are your

1215
01:03:56,100 --> 01:04:00,500
evaluations or mechanics or, you
know, motor control assessments 

1216
01:04:00,500 --> 01:04:03,900
are those telling you anything 
about Footwear selection or how 

1217
01:04:03,900 --> 01:04:07,200
you thought about it? 
Yes. 

1218
01:04:07,300 --> 01:04:12,800
And I would say, if you had 
asked me this four to six months

1219
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:17,300
ago, I would have given an 
entirely different answer and 

1220
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:21,600
because I've actually started 
looking A lot more recently at 

1221
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:26,000
this and some of it was because 
we've actually brought on a lot 

1222
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:29,000
of shoe stores. 
They've actually started using 

1223
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:34,400
our 3D analysis equipment and so
I was like, all right, let's 

1224
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:36,000
dive into this. 
I want to be able to give them 

1225
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:40,900
some advice and looking at that 
and what we're finding is, I've 

1226
01:04:41,300 --> 01:04:43,500
had shoe rules for a while, 
right? 

1227
01:04:43,500 --> 01:04:47,400
And, you know, first rule that 
in this in, these are my rules, 

1228
01:04:47,700 --> 01:04:49,800
you know, just this dugout. 
There's rules. 

1229
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:52,300
Here's one is comfortable, 
right? 

1230
01:04:52,300 --> 01:04:54,400
I think everyone would probably 
agree with that. 

1231
01:04:54,700 --> 01:04:58,200
Too. 
Is lightweight, you know, if 

1232
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:01,900
it's comfortable but it weighs a
bajillion pounds. 

1233
01:05:01,900 --> 01:05:05,700
It's not going to be good from 
that running economy standpoint,

1234
01:05:05,700 --> 01:05:06,900
right? 
We just know that it's going to 

1235
01:05:06,908 --> 01:05:12,000
put a lot of stress on the body.
So you know, and I would say 

1236
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:15,100
what I used to say, and I'm 
changes a little bit. 

1237
01:05:15,100 --> 01:05:20,000
The third one I used to say like
it can't force you to Change 

1238
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:23,500
your form. 
And now I would modify that and 

1239
01:05:23,500 --> 01:05:28,900
say that it can't adversely 
affect your running mechanics. 

1240
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:36,500
And the reason I'm saying that 
now is that is I give you a 

1241
01:05:36,508 --> 01:05:38,900
secondary method to speak up 
there. 

1242
01:05:38,900 --> 01:05:44,600
Yes, it is. 
I am, I started comparing people

1243
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:48,800
doing 3D and I started in three 
different pairs of shoes. 

1244
01:05:49,300 --> 01:05:53,700
And I would look at them and I 
would I started noticing and 

1245
01:05:53,700 --> 01:05:58,300
this is unfortunate and we're 
trying to see if there are maybe

1246
01:05:58,300 --> 01:06:01,200
things that we don't recognize, 
but everyone responds 

1247
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:02,800
differently to different types 
of shoes. 

1248
01:06:03,300 --> 01:06:06,100
Unfortunately, I haven't been 
able to say, listen, if you're 

1249
01:06:06,100 --> 01:06:10,000
an over Strider, with chin pain,
you need to be in these Brooks. 

1250
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:15,900
And if you're a glutton music 
with IT, band, you need to be in

1251
01:06:15,900 --> 01:06:19,000
these ho cos or these Nikes, or 
these Adidas or so. 

1252
01:06:19,500 --> 01:06:22,300
We haven't found that or even, 
we can't even say, like you need

1253
01:06:22,300 --> 01:06:25,200
a motion control versus a 
neutral, versus a stability type

1254
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:27,800
shoe. 
And I think that my military 

1255
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:30,700
contacts, they've, we tried to 
do this, you know, a hundred 

1256
01:06:30,700 --> 01:06:34,600
times, right? 
We can't just say, you run this 

1257
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:37,900
way, you need this type of shoe.
That's it. 

1258
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:40,000
Right? 
What we what we need to be able 

1259
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:43,400
to do is look at somebody's 
individual response. 

1260
01:06:43,700 --> 01:06:46,700
So we started doing these gait 
analysis at my clinic and a lot 

1261
01:06:46,700 --> 01:06:50,600
of the people that are using our
System at running retail, 

1262
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:53,600
locations are saying like, let's
put you in three different pairs

1263
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:56,400
of shoes, and let's find the one
that looks best for you. 

1264
01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:59,700
And I did this personally. 
Now I found great Revelation 

1265
01:06:59,700 --> 01:07:03,300
where I was like I found out you
like my form is great like I 

1266
01:07:03,300 --> 01:07:07,000
look at that straight from 
Center of mass one was like we 

1267
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:09,400
like that number to be under 30 
in these. 

1268
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:13,800
I run a lot and topos I like 
this Topo and it's the Fly Light

1269
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:19,000
and I'm like 2727 on both sides.
Look great mechanics are gray, I

1270
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:23,500
see On a super shoe and they 
went up to 33, that's straight 

1271
01:07:23,500 --> 01:07:25,500
from Center of mass. 
And I had somebody else doing 

1272
01:07:25,500 --> 01:07:27,400
the analysis and blinded me to 
it. 

1273
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:30,400
So, I didn't know I thought I 
was running the same way every 

1274
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:33,800
time my mechanic shifted 
dramatically, right? 

1275
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:36,400
And then I was trying to find a 
super shoe that I could use for 

1276
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:38,600
this race. 
So then I found another one 

1277
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:44,500
instead of being like 32 went to
like 29 and 30 or so yeah at 

1278
01:07:44,500 --> 01:07:45,500
oppa. 
Are you go? 

1279
01:07:45,500 --> 01:07:51,000
Yeah got it. 
So not plated but Oh yes, I will

1280
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:54,700
say like my my rules are now 
like that. 

1281
01:07:54,700 --> 01:07:58,100
Third one is the kind of the way
I'm stating is like it doesn't 

1282
01:07:58,100 --> 01:08:01,600
adversely affect your mechanics.
And I think that is the thing 

1283
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:05,800
that many people are missing in 
the selection of their shoes and

1284
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:10,500
I would say, wouldn't you rather
spend the hundred to two hundred

1285
01:08:10,500 --> 01:08:13,400
dollars on getting a gait 
analysis to find the right pair 

1286
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:17,000
of shoes, then buying a right 
pair, the wrong pair of shoes, 

1287
01:08:17,100 --> 01:08:20,300
getting an injury paying 
everything associated With that.

1288
01:08:20,399 --> 01:08:24,100
And then having to also buy 
another pair of shoes that cost 

1289
01:08:24,100 --> 01:08:27,800
160 bucks at the end of the day.
So like invest in the gait 

1290
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:29,899
analysis and figure out what the
right pair of shoes. 

1291
01:08:29,899 --> 01:08:32,600
It's for you and that's 
resonated with a lot of people 

1292
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:35,399
and you obviously get way more 
out of a run analysis than 

1293
01:08:35,399 --> 01:08:38,000
picking shoes. 
So yeah, that's not that's just,

1294
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:40,899
it's almost like that's a tack 
on where you get to try a couple

1295
01:08:40,899 --> 01:08:44,700
shoes and case in point to that 
was I had a lady who I was 

1296
01:08:44,700 --> 01:08:50,700
evaluating and you know, she had
Some some hamstring issues or 

1297
01:08:50,700 --> 01:08:52,700
whatever. 
And so we're looking at her gait

1298
01:08:52,700 --> 01:08:55,100
she would be in the over Strider
category. 

1299
01:08:55,100 --> 01:09:00,500
She had a very high tibial 
inclination angle and had a 

1300
01:09:00,700 --> 01:09:03,899
decent decent Lehigh foot. 
Inclination angle kind of all of

1301
01:09:03,899 --> 01:09:07,500
these patterns and she was 
running in what was the first 

1302
01:09:07,500 --> 01:09:12,200
shoe she was in. 
I'd have been like a Brooks 

1303
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:14,300
ghost or glycerin. 
I'm trying to remember. 

1304
01:09:14,300 --> 01:09:16,100
Anyway, it was a height. 
It was a high drop shoe, 

1305
01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:18,500
whatever it was. 
And then she's like, and I just 

1306
01:09:18,500 --> 01:09:23,200
bought this brand new pair of 
shoes there, Newton fate 8, it's

1307
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:24,399
my first time running in a 
Newton. 

1308
01:09:24,399 --> 01:09:27,200
I want to see what it's like and
in theory and think, oh, this 

1309
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:30,200
really low dropped and you know,
3 mm. 

1310
01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:33,300
But even with the lugs, it might
be zero or negative, you know, 

1311
01:09:33,399 --> 01:09:35,500
that might force her to like 
pull it underneath her. 

1312
01:09:35,500 --> 01:09:39,300
She actually had a higher tibial
innate inclination angle. 

1313
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:42,600
A higher foot inclination angle.
So just because you changed your

1314
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:44,100
shoe. 
That in theory, you would 

1315
01:09:44,100 --> 01:09:46,000
potentially respond to in a 
positive way. 

1316
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:49,700
It actually increased, all of 
her, you know, her Tendencies 

1317
01:09:49,700 --> 01:09:52,600
for over strategy and the things
that were putting high stress on

1318
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:56,500
her injuries site. 
So I think I like that concept 

1319
01:09:56,500 --> 01:09:59,600
of in as we've learned with 
pretty much everything 

1320
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:02,200
individual response is going to 
be different. 

1321
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:04,400
We definitely know that when it 
comes to running the economy and

1322
01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:06,700
Super Shoes. 
It's probably the same like 

1323
01:10:06,700 --> 01:10:09,500
you're starting to see some 
patterns clinically because 

1324
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:13,200
Nobody's looking at this with 
research yet, you know, you're 

1325
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:15,800
starting to see those kinds of 
patterns emerge with. 

1326
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:19,400
Yeah, exactly, yet a little 
eyeliner eyebrows raised. 

1327
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:21,100
That's perfect. 
So cool. 

1328
01:10:21,100 --> 01:10:22,800
Well, thanks for sharing those 
thoughts with us. 

1329
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:24,900
So, we're going to wrap things 
up. 

1330
01:10:24,900 --> 01:10:27,900
We kept you a little bit longer 
than I said we would. 

1331
01:10:27,900 --> 01:10:30,900
So I'm sorry for that. 
But if people aren't already 

1332
01:10:30,900 --> 01:10:33,700
following you and kind of, I 
know we have clinicians that 

1333
01:10:33,700 --> 01:10:35,300
listen to this. 
We have Runners who listen to 

1334
01:10:35,300 --> 01:10:37,500
this. 
What sort of resources do you 

1335
01:10:37,500 --> 01:10:39,400
have available? 
And where can they find you 

1336
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:44,700
guys? 
Yes, the website run DNA.com is 

1337
01:10:44,700 --> 01:10:46,500
probably the best place to get 
started. 

1338
01:10:46,500 --> 01:10:49,200
That's where all our courses are
and more information. 

1339
01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:52,300
We just launched a new website 
and so we're really happy about 

1340
01:10:52,300 --> 01:10:53,700
that. 
That has everything. 

1341
01:10:53,700 --> 01:10:57,000
A nice. 
Thank you, we got our social 

1342
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:59,300
media links on there. 
There's like a free course that.

1343
01:10:59,300 --> 01:11:02,800
I think a lot of people get 
introduced to us through if 

1344
01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:04,800
you're and this is even for 
runners. 

1345
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:07,100
Hey, it's called essential 
elements of running. 

1346
01:11:07,300 --> 01:11:09,600
So if you do want to learn a 
little bit more about like me, 

1347
01:11:09,700 --> 01:11:13,200
can expand what that means and a
little bit more information 

1348
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:16,200
about those categories. 
That's a free hour long video. 

1349
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:20,700
Course everyone can take. 
And then on Instagram, I think I

1350
01:11:20,700 --> 01:11:23,600
am not the best social media 
person here. 

1351
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:29,200
I am Doug Adams PT. 
And then I think there's run DNA

1352
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:34,700
system or the to Instagram ones 
that were more active on there. 

1353
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:39,200
And yes yeah, but I think those 
are the ways but kind of 

1354
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:40,800
website. 
A great place to go to get 

1355
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:44,500
started. 
Perfect, is this is free advice?

1356
01:11:44,500 --> 01:11:46,600
Have you considered having to 
have run DNA? 

1357
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:50,100
Have you had the individual 
social media should be run RNA 

1358
01:11:50,100 --> 01:11:52,500
because there's there's smaller 
more compact. 

1359
01:11:54,500 --> 01:11:58,500
I like that Jeffrey. 
You can take that one as far as 

1360
01:11:58,500 --> 01:12:02,000
you want to go. 
Yes, TJ's talking to cut that 

1361
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:05,700
out. 
DJ Casper, please cut that. 

1362
01:12:05,700 --> 01:12:08,400
I'm just kidding. 
But Doug, thank you so much for 

1363
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:09,900
joining us. 
It was a pleasure to have have 

1364
01:12:09,900 --> 01:12:12,400
you and just I mean when it 
would we get to talk to other 

1365
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:16,100
pts and people who think 
similarly and differently? 

1366
01:12:16,100 --> 01:12:17,400
That's the beauty of the 
profession. 

1367
01:12:17,700 --> 01:12:20,400
It's really fun to just kind of 
be able to hear people's 

1368
01:12:20,400 --> 01:12:22,300
thoughts on this and get to 
learn from you. 

1369
01:12:22,300 --> 01:12:24,500
So, again, thank you so much for
joining us. 

1370
01:12:24,500 --> 01:12:27,900
And if you haven't already, 
please subscribe to this podcast

1371
01:12:27,900 --> 01:12:31,900
and leave a review, it helps 
continue our growth as we get to

1372
01:12:31,900 --> 01:12:35,100
do this really fun project, so, 
appreciate all of you. 

1373
01:12:35,100 --> 01:12:37,400
And if you have more questions 
for Doug, feel free to either 

1374
01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:39,400
connect with him, through the 
Run DNA.com. 

1375
01:12:39,700 --> 01:12:42,800
Mom, or you can reach out to us 
and we'll try to connect you as 

1376
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:44,100
well. 
Take care everybody.