1 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,880 Hello everybody, and welcome to the Doctors of Running podcast 2 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,640 where we a group of doctors of physical therapy, discuss the 3 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:18,120 art and science of running and the stuff that we put on our 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,480 feet. Today is actually our 200th 5 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,000 episode of the podcast, which is kind of crazy because I think 6 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,680 when we first started this podcast, it was kind of one of 7 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:29,840 these. Why don't we just give it a 8 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:31,240 shot? We had these real. 9 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,960 I think our first one was like a review of maybe the original 10 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,920 float right energy from Reebok or something like that and it. 11 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,240 Sounds about right, yeah. So it's just a way for us to 12 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:45,040 like talk a little bit more casually and in a round table 13 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:46,800 format. We actually formally called this 14 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:48,880 Doctors of Running Virtual Roundtable. 15 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,720 So it's pretty fun that we are here at episode 200. 16 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,520 And I think that we have it really enjoyed the space to 17 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,920 engage in conversations with each other, brainstorm a lot of 18 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:02,760 things, challenge each other's thoughts, hear from each other. 19 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,840 It's been a gift for me and I think for all of us to be able 20 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:07,680 to do it. So thank you all for following 21 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,800 along over these 200 episodes. It's been a really fun journey. 22 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:16,120 And with this being our 200th episode, our friends at Scratch 23 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:20,720 who are sponsoring this episode have generously offered a $100 24 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,840 hydration pack giveaway or hydration prize pack giveaway. 25 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:29,360 And so if you want to enter to win this prize pack, all that 26 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,080 you need to do after you subscribe wherever you're at and 27 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,320 leave a leave us a review, please, of the podcast, you need 28 00:01:35,320 --> 00:01:39,440 to head to the YouTube posting of this podcast podcast, which 29 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,880 releases on Sundays. So if you're listening on audio, 30 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,040 you also need to jump over to YouTube. 31 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,400 You'll have to comment below. And what we want to hear from 32 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,680 you is what do you hope to see with the doctors running podcast 33 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,680 over the number over the next 100 or 200 episodes? 34 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,920 And then you will be entered to win the scratch giveaway, which 35 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,040 is $100 hydration pack. So thank you scratch for 36 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,280 providing that. And it's just one way that we 37 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:08,280 can celebrate all of us getting here to episode 200. 38 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,800 Matt, what are you? I'm laughing it because last 39 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,560 time we gave a code and I already blew 100 bucks on 40 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,720 scratch for my personal bucks. Well, and that Speaking of that 41 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,440 code, the code still exists too. So if you haven't used the code 42 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:24,360 yet, it's a one time use code, but you can get 25% off your 43 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,880 order. It's Dor 24 so you can you can 44 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,520 use that code. And Matt apparently used the 45 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:32,840 code already and got things rolling. 46 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:34,960 Yes, I did. I'm not going to lie, I I used 47 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:36,600 it too. I ordered another soft flask 48 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:38,720 because I really liked that soft flask. 49 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:43,360 Amazing. All right, so also Speaking of 50 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,320 Matt, though, what we want to do is I know I mentioned it last 51 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:50,840 week on the podcast with Doctor Hoot Gomer, but I but alter was 52 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:52,520 on the podcast. He didn't get to really 53 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,560 celebrate Matt, but Matt officially has defended his 54 00:02:55,560 --> 00:03:00,200 dissertation and is a PhD. So huge congratulations to Matt. 55 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,560 If you've been following this podcast, you would have had to 56 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,920 be not listening to know that Matt is not working on his PhD. 57 00:03:05,920 --> 00:03:08,880 We've talked about his work. He's talked about the grind, 58 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,520 he's talked about the struggle, he's talked about the triumphs. 59 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:13,920 But we're here and he has his PhD. 60 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,520 And Matt, what I want to hear from you is maybe one big take 61 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:21,120 away from this whole dissertation process and what 62 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,960 you hope that the PhD is going to help you be able to do in the 63 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,880 future. I will say for those who've been 64 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,440 the OG listeners, the podcast actually started around when I 65 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,560 started my PhD because remember, I'd moved to Azusa, CA. 66 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:36,240 That's right. We started this. 67 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,600 And so that's, that's kind of crazy to think about. 68 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,840 So you said one, I'm only limited to one sentence. 69 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,080 No, no. One, One take away. 70 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,880 One take away. 1 take away. And what you hope to that this 71 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,360 does for you in the future and for others, I think. 72 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,040 One of the one of the big takeaways, and I'm very 73 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,120 fortunate, but I also think I matched very well with this is 74 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,560 to be able to do this stuff, you have to have endurance there. 75 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:01,040 You're going to learn along the way. 76 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,480 What one of my advisors was joke who told me, you know, hey, like 77 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,000 I've you've grown so much over the five years. 78 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:09,760 A lot of it. I had to be patient and realize 79 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:11,040 you're going to have to figure out. 80 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:15,200 And so endurance is really key, both in learning and 81 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,440 persevering. It's that's why we're at 200 82 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,760 episodes. We just kept going. 83 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,720 And I think that's really important to remember because 84 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:24,960 things take time. You know, it took the, the 85 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:29,120 average time it takes to take a do a PhD is about 5 to six 86 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,200 years. So I'm right in that level, but 87 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:33,800 perseverance and endurance is what I'm taking forward. 88 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,840 And also the realization is things are just slow, right? 89 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:41,560 Research takes step by step. You don't usually find huge big 90 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:43,120 things. Huge big things come as a 91 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,120 culmination of huge amounts of work. 92 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:47,400 And that's. So anytime you see a big 93 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:51,440 performance, there's years of small steps behind it. 94 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,760 And so appreciating those small steps is probably one of the 95 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,760 bigger takeaways that I I got and will continue to take with 96 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:03,720 me as I continue to do research and contribute and try to be the 97 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:08,520 best I can be and supported by. Congratulations, we it's been a 98 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,080 it's been a joy watching you get there. 99 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:11,720 So what? Am I going to complain about 100 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:16,400 now? I'm just kidding. 101 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,000 That's hilarious. Awesome. 102 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,960 Well, today we actually have a really fun episode. 103 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,400 So our media manager Bach and audio engineer BJ came up with 104 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,680 this idea and they reached out to a lot of some of our people 105 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,920 that we've gotten to know over these last 200 episodes who have 106 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,800 all of these people, I believe, Yep, all of them have been a 107 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:38,840 guest on the podcast at some point. 108 00:05:38,840 --> 00:05:41,360 And they're from different portions of the industry, 109 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:45,120 whether working for shoe companies or our PTS in the with 110 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,840 runners and running coaches, all the this kind of stuff. 111 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,120 And they reached out to them and gathered a a mail bag that we 112 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,600 have from these people who have been on our podcast and have 113 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,640 followed what we've been up to. So that is what we're going to 114 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:00,520 be going through today is this mail bag. 115 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:05,600 And I'm going to start it off front with Tina from Brooks and 116 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,400 she has an ice breaker question for us. 117 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,720 She says an ice breaker question I'd love to ask you in general 118 00:06:10,840 --> 00:06:13,160 is who's your celebrity? Who would be your like celebrity 119 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:14,520 best friend? Who would you just kind of like 120 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,040 hang out with in real life if you think that you actually got 121 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:18,800 to know them? But she wants to kind of make it 122 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,360 running. So who would be your celebrity 123 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,640 best friend? Who's in that running sphere and 124 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:26,600 why that's? A good question. 125 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,680 You got one, Matt. I got 2, is that count because 126 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:32,800 I'm stuck between them? Yeah, before I do it. 127 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,240 So it would either be Jared Ward or Molly Seidel. 128 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:41,720 So Jared, obviously, because fellow, yeah, fellow like 129 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:46,720 scientist, researcher, just to get to pick his brain and talk 130 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:48,840 to him both about his experience as well as what he's looking at 131 00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:51,280 research wise would be really, really cool. 132 00:06:51,280 --> 00:06:54,000 And they feel like Molly would just be a boss to hang out with. 133 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:58,000 Like really fun, really like good sense of humor good. 134 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:01,600 Like someone who can who knows what it's like to be challenged 135 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:03,200 heavily and continue to persevere. 136 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,080 I think those two off the top of my head would be really fun to 137 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:10,040 go train with and hang out with. I'm just going to go next 138 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,480 because I was also it's it's funny. 139 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:16,640 I was going to say Jared Ward mostly from like, I would love 140 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,920 to just hang out with him and talk like the science of 141 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,200 running. And I, I told these guys and 142 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,640 they know this about me. Like of all of us at doctor 143 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:29,200 running, I know the least about like the professional running 144 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:33,520 world. Like I'm, I'm not like a running 145 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,040 professional running nerd. Like I was like, oh, when are 146 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,360 the trials happening? And they're like, they're 147 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:40,560 happening. They've been going on for like 148 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:41,320 weeks. I'm like, oh. 149 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,600 Cool, Jimmy Carr. I had the exact same thing this 150 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:45,760 year. I was like, wait, the Olympic 151 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:46,640 trial? Like I'm living. 152 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:48,840 There rough quick though. Yeah it's just like happens and 153 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:50,880 before you know it you're 3 days into it and you're like wait 154 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,040 what is? And maybe it's a final tonight. 155 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,920 Maybe it's a phase of life thing because I'm also in grad school 156 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:57,560 and teaching and stuff, so it could be that too. 157 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,960 But it's not like I grew up, you know, following this stuff. 158 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:03,280 And the other person was also Molly because she's from 159 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,280 Wisconsin. And so I know we'd be able to 160 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,840 act on like a lot of our history just because she's from this 161 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:10,960 area. But also in that in that sense 162 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,120 too, like another one would be Chris Solinsky because he also 163 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,760 is from Stevens Point. So that would be even more of a 164 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,640 cool connection because like Rasheen Willis, she's also from 165 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:23,760 Stevens Point. So I feel like I would probably 166 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,040 deviate towards look to Wisconsin. 167 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,960 People don't know if they we'd be best friends, but there'd be 168 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,039 the people I'd want to meet, I guess, is how I think about it. 169 00:08:33,039 --> 00:08:35,720 What do you say, David? Yeah, it's funny. 170 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,760 I feel like you guys have these like super, I don't know, like 171 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:40,400 these scientists and these people like. 172 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:44,440 Who likes tacos as David's answer? 173 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:45,680 Is it yeah or? Yeah. 174 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:47,520 Who have I seen? Eating tacos. 175 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,560 I think I would honestly like take your pick of any of the 176 00:08:53,560 --> 00:08:55,800 gents over at the Coffee Club podcast. 177 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,880 They're they're a pretty kooky bunch and I think it'd be a fun 178 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,840 just long run, just hang out and talk to them. 179 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,600 And they're also super big nerds of the sport and they're in it. 180 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,680 So they all are professional athletes for those that don't 181 00:09:09,680 --> 00:09:12,840 know that podcast. And so that's Morgan McDonald, 182 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,360 who's a Wisconsin Badger former, same with Ollie Horror. 183 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:17,880 Yeah, he ran at Wisconsin as well. 184 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:22,520 And Jordy Beamis, she ran at NAU and it'd be funny and kind of 185 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,120 kooky too, because none of them are American either. 186 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:29,080 So like, it'd just be like, I think it'd just be a fun bunch. 187 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,200 Just tag along with them on some runs. 188 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,480 Not that I can keep up, but. You could be. 189 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,720 You could be pretty close for a lot of their worst stuff. 190 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,800 No, I would not. But those guys are running like 191 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,200 Jordy just ran 809 in the steeple. 192 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,920 Dang. That was a big boy time, yeah. 193 00:09:49,680 --> 00:09:51,920 That's cool. Actually, can I actually ask 194 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:53,360 this question about steeplechase? 195 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,960 Yeah. So don't nobody please give me 196 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,480 some grace on this question. I'm talking to YouTube but also 197 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,320 everybody. So I feel like in a most in most 198 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,840 races, if you fall down, there's no way that you could win. 199 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:11,880 But I have seen like 800 you could. 200 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:13,560 You can't win the 800 if you fall down. 201 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,360 Yeah, as seen done in the 15 though, haven't they? 202 00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:21,720 Yeah. OK, so maybe it's it's just long 203 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,120 enough where you can. I was just thinking about like, 204 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,000 why? You know, if they, if they 205 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,360 hadn't fallen down, they probably could have finished 206 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,360 even faster than they did, but they don't really have. 207 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,600 What do you think it is that allows people to fall? 208 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,640 Maybe this just applies to more races fall and then get back in 209 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:38,320 it. Oh, are you thinking about like 210 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,480 Kenneth Brooks last year? Yeah. 211 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:44,920 Yeah, the BYU guy, Yeah. I mean, you get such an 212 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:46,760 adrenaline rust. I mean, your first thing is 213 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:48,800 like, get back in the race. And once you're back in the 214 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,920 race, you're so hyped up that like, I mean, anything can 215 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,120 happen once you're back in it. I mean, it's anyone's race. 216 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,960 It activates an extra mental gear maybe? 217 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,960 Yeah, I think it says a lot about people too, because 218 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,000 sometimes, I mean, you see people fall and they just shut 219 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,160 down and they just are like, all right, race is over, I'm done. 220 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,760 And then others, maybe they push a little bit and they're like, 221 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,080 OK, it's not happening today. I guess it all depends on like, 222 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,440 how bad the fall is and how much time they lost. 223 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:18,000 But then some people race their way back up, like Mo Farah won a 224 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,680 gold when he fell in the middle of the race. 225 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:23,000 Like granted, they were running a lot slower. 226 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,960 It was a 10 Ki believe, right? It's either A10 or five, but 227 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,040 yeah. I I think it's less, it's like, 228 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,240 oh, if you fall, you can still win the steeple. 229 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,760 I would give people more credit. They are able to do that because 230 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:39,320 steeple chase is not just endurance, it's also technique 231 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:41,840 and strength. Like because if you, you get, 232 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,040 you see people as they fatigue. Like that's where you see some 233 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:45,560 of those falls happen because they're tripping over the 234 00:11:45,560 --> 00:11:47,800 barriers. So technique, staying in it 235 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,800 mentally, I think it gives people more credit that have 236 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,560 fallen able to get back up rather than hey, is it just 237 00:11:53,560 --> 00:11:56,480 something more. So to that race and all credit 238 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:57,640 to anybody that's done a steeple. 239 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,000 I I attempted one, fell and went face first into the barrier and 240 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:02,520 it's the only race I've ever dropped out of. 241 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,680 Cool. Well, that's all I had, so 242 00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:09,840 thanks for entertaining that question for me. 243 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,840 Let's move on to our next one. This next one is from Connor at 244 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:18,000 Running Warehouse and he's been on the show before and he's 245 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,960 asking us a couple questions. The first one is if you worked 246 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,680 in the run industry, what brand would you want to work for and 247 00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:28,040 why? This is a tough question. 248 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,480 I I still don't feel solid on it. 249 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,960 By the way, I'm saying nose goes for me. 250 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:34,600 I got my finger on my nose and everything. 251 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:40,760 David's first. I think I'd go between 2:00 252 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,000 right now and there is some bias in one of them. 253 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:47,120 So well actually they're both up and coming companies like I mean 254 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,280 I say up and coming relatively in a business conglomerate 255 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,600 world. The two that come to mind for me 256 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:58,600 are Hoka and on. They have grown themselves to be 257 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:03,160 a billion dollar company now, right, both of them over the 258 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,160 course of like 10 years. And they just have a lot of 259 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:09,520 growth and they're expanding a lot on their materials, on their 260 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,360 divisions and they're just trying to expand and and get 261 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,440 after it. Obviously HOKA is headquartered 262 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,760 here in Santa Barbara, so there's a little bit of locality 263 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:22,600 bias there as well. But but just from like a respect 264 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,600 of the industry and what they've been able to do in the short 265 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,680 amount of time that they've been able to do it, I think it'd be a 266 00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:30,800 scrappy bunch to just be a part of and see what they're doing 267 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:32,640 and and have some fun there, Matt. 268 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:38,520 What do you got? So again, I think some bias here 269 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,080 and there's probably two or two or three honestly. 270 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,960 So I'd say Saucony's the big one just because we've we've been 271 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,760 there and it's not saying and nobody else is, but there it's a 272 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:52,360 really good group and it's been really fun to get to know them 273 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,960 on a personal level. Not that that introduces that 274 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,920 mean we try not to introduce any bias, but that's that's really 275 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,240 cool. I would say another one just 276 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:05,440 again, because of the people, I'd say Brooks, just they've got 277 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,560 some awesome people there, especially the bio mechanics 278 00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:12,120 team, especially Tina. So I really appreciate what 279 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,560 they're doing and what they're trying to do. 280 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,080 And then I would have to say the other one that I'm kind of tied 281 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,720 with is on just because I'm fascinated with some of the 282 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,760 stuff I'm seeing and how quickly they're growing. 283 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:25,680 And obviously you can tell I love their apparel. 284 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,200 So that's another another reason. 285 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,400 Yeah. But I wouldn't want to actually 286 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,000 work in the running industry. I think it's been kind of a 287 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,720 blessing to be on the outside and give some feedback. 288 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,560 I don't know if I'd necessarily want to work in it. 289 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:47,000 Yeah, I think for me, I, when I was thinking about this, I was 290 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:52,200 like, I think I would want a company that has a, they know 291 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,640 who they are and that is committed to running. 292 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,160 And I say that because there are some like larger companies that 293 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,440 don't have as much of like an emphasis on like running, but 294 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,840 they hate they, they have running shoes and they have kind 295 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,480 of like running lines. But I'd, I really want a company 296 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,240 that really like, is forward with their running as like what 297 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,040 their brand is. So in that there's a couple of 298 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:21,160 them that kind of came to mind. One of them was Topo because 299 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,920 they were, you know, founded from that they have kind of this 300 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:29,960 niche identity. I I have a lot of times agreed 301 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,840 with their footwear in terms of like enjoying running in them. 302 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,320 So I see when you work for a company of the opportunity to 303 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,840 run in their stuff more, which means I probably wouldn't be 304 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,560 doing Dor anymore. And so that that was thinking 305 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:42,640 about like what do I want to run in? 306 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:44,640 I've agreed with their footwear and I think that they're 307 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:46,680 committed to running and running shoes. 308 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:48,880 And so I think that would be cool. 309 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,360 Plus location be kind of fun out and Colorado, right, that's 310 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:53,880 where they're at so. East. 311 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:56,120 Coast. Are you serious? 312 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:00,080 Yeah, that's embarrassing. Well, shows you how much I know. 313 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,720 Shout out Russ. I didn't know either. 314 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,080 I'm not judging. I love these coasts. 315 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,760 They're like Boston, yeah. I love these coasts. 316 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:15,240 It's great. Well, let's let's cut that. 317 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:20,960 And then I think that the, I had sock news on my list too, but I, 318 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:25,000 I don't know in terms of like what the hierarchy of like 319 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,400 company ownership is like, I don't know how much autonomy 320 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,240 they have in the decisions that they make. 321 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:33,920 And I, I legitimately don't know. 322 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,920 But again, just like Matt said, getting to know their team and 323 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,280 they're like science, They're scientists on their team. 324 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,640 They're awesome people who I think get it. 325 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,960 And so I really like talking with them and would like to work 326 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,360 with them. And then the other company that 327 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,480 was in my mind was ASICS as well. 328 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,000 I think that they have shown commitment to running, 329 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,040 especially over these last five years where they've overhauled a 330 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,600 lot of stuff and they've been willing to make some changes and 331 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,119 continue to push the envelope on all fronts and provide like a 332 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,960 line of shoes that can reach a lot of different people. 333 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,720 So wow, Topo, I got to look that up. 334 00:17:13,319 --> 00:17:15,760 Where? Is Boston no judgement they're. 335 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,000 Boston area man, that's about trail shoes. 336 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:20,839 They're like built for like technical. 337 00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:28,119 Training like, yeah, well, ultras things ultras in 338 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:32,920 Colorado, right, David? Yeah, originally from Utah. 339 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,040 Yeah, I think our conversation and we're somebody commented. 340 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,360 For in Colorado. Yeah, Newton's in Colorado. 341 00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:41,000 Someone commented we're wrong on this but my understanding from 342 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,240 Ultra was started in Utah and then they are now their 343 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:48,160 headquarters are in. Colorado OK, I can I blame the 344 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,280 yard work that I did today I completely I've been outside 345 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:56,320 since like 9:00 AM No 10 like 10:30 AM doing yard work so. 346 00:17:57,120 --> 00:18:01,120 I would say I'm tired, not that I forgot about them, but ASICS I 347 00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:03,840 would also throw in the bag just from a sports science standpoint 348 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:04,920 with some of the stuff they're doing. 349 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,600 I was so say I'd be interested there so. 350 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,560 It'd be fun to work in their lab, like they're clearly doing 351 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:11,760 testing. Yeah. 352 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:17,440 So anyway, let's move on to Connor's second question, and 353 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,040 it's about shoe durability. He says shoe durability has 354 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:21,880 remained somewhat similar over the years. 355 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,960 We usually see a range of 300 to 500 miles, give or take, 356 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:26,560 depending on the type of shoe and runner. 357 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:31,360 Will we ever get to a time where shoes last 1000 plus miles? 358 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:33,200 Matt, you've got you've got thoughts. 359 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,040 Yeah. Can I start, Connor, I'm going 360 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,760 to disagree with you there that I feel like and maybe this is 361 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:43,400 bias, that shoes are lasting far less than they used to. 362 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,200 And I think that's partially to not to blame, but just saying 363 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,560 the materials are so much lighter than they used to be. 364 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:54,400 If you grab an old shoe from the closet that's from 10 years ago, 365 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:58,400 it is significantly heavier for the same model, the same, you 366 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,080 know, category. So things have gotten a lot 367 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,520 lighter. And I think with that comes 368 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,680 decreased durability. The outsoles do take a lot of 369 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,160 weight when you add that stuff. So we're seeing less outsole, so 370 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:14,160 and then the mid soles being so much more soft and a lot of, not 371 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,200 all of them, a lot of them are far more resilient and 372 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,520 compliant, which means that they tend to deaden over a while. 373 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,480 There's a lot of super shoes that are actually lasting a 374 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,080 really, really long time. I don't think stuff's going to 375 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,760 be lasting longer. I feel like the unfortunate 376 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,800 trend that I'm seeing is things like even race shoes. 377 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,160 And we'll announce this very shortly, but there is a very 378 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,160 expensive race shoe that I have that just less than 10 miles. 379 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:38,480 You can tell. Ripped it. 380 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:39,840 Yeah. So we'll talk about it. 381 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:41,680 There's the Evo. So Evo Pro. 382 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,000 Yeah. I just, Adidas was nice to send 383 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,000 me a pair and the outsole came off in 10 miles for a $500 shoe. 384 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:51,560 So, you know, I, I, I don't think we're going to see 385 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:57,400 something last 1000 miles unless people really start to focus on 386 00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,120 how do we design the outsole better? 387 00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:02,680 How do we get resilient compliant forms that actually 388 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:06,640 hold that for a while. And I think to do that you might 389 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,280 have to do some very interesting chemical makeup. 390 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,880 So I don't, I don't know. I think those times are gone. 391 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,280 We used to have that a lot of shoes will last 1000 miles like 392 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,160 20-30 years ago because of the the materials and their they're. 393 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,240 Basically just bricks. Yeah, just basically bricks, but 394 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:24,800 I don't know if we're going to see that and I know it's not 395 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:26,240 answering the question. Well, it is, yeah. 396 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:27,360 I don't think we're going to see that, no. 397 00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:28,440 That's answering the question, yeah. 398 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,640 What do you think, David? You know, so for me, I think it, 399 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:37,240 the root of it is what is the consumer value and what does the 400 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,520 industry value? And the last like 5 to 10 years, 401 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,960 there's been a huge ramp up towards performance. 402 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,040 How fast, how light, how responsive can we make these 403 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,440 pieces of footwear. And in that conversation, 404 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,680 durability kind of does go out the window. 405 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:54,920 You want to last a little bit, You know, they're like, oh, 406 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:56,480 you'll get 4 marathons out of this. 407 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,880 That's not too bad. Well, you just spent $250 for a 408 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:03,000 shoe that's going to last 100 and. 8200 and 82175. 409 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,240 Yeah. So I mean, it just depends I 410 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,600 think on the goal of the industry and what people want. 411 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,680 If the goal is genuinely durability, they will go and get 412 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,000 the materials and they'll find a way to make it durable. 413 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:18,160 So I think it really is just a root of the industry in itself. 414 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,360 I think the ability to make more durable footwear is is there. 415 00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:25,320 And I'm sure if you talk to the materials people and they go and 416 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,440 they start pulling all these blends, they can make something 417 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,280 that can last a crap ton of time. 418 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:34,240 But is it worth that crap ton of time to make that shoe when they 419 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,160 can make a lot more money or just at least, you know, get 420 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,800 more pieces of footwear out to more other people not doing 421 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,160 that. So that doesn't really answer 422 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,920 the question either. But I think the potential is 423 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:47,480 there. I just don't know if that's 424 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,000 really what aligns with the footwear industry at this 425 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,520 current moment. I was going to say something 426 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,120 super similar where I, I think that will we ever get there? 427 00:21:56,120 --> 00:22:00,040 I think we can, but, and I don't know how, but I, I do think that 428 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:05,520 it would take either some niche company or some sort of external 429 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,680 driver to say our actual chief priority is creating a shoe that 430 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,120 lasts forever. And maybe that means that the 431 00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:15,560 industry creates shoes that have a very different construction 432 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,800 that maybe don't use foam or use some, you know, something a 433 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,880 little bit different to create kind of cushioning and kind of 434 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,280 that structure under the foot. But I think it's possible. 435 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:27,880 But there's no demand for it, right? 436 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,800 I mean, there's desire for it. Like everybody wants a shoe that 437 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,560 lasts a long time. But I think that as David was 438 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:37,160 saying right now, at least what's being sold to people. 439 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,320 And also it seems to, I think being asked from people is 440 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,840 something that's comfortable and something that is going to be 441 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,200 soft. And when you want comfortable, 442 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,080 soft and lighter weight, like you're going to sacrifice 443 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,120 durability and that won't be your, you can't kind of have 444 00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:55,760 can't have your cake and eat it too in that situation, I think. 445 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,600 I will say the other challenge that that you run into with this 446 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,640 is that there are going to be some people that will get 1000 447 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,360 miles out of the shoe. The problem is when that 448 00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:07,760 questions asked, you're only talking about the shoe. 449 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,120 You're forgetting that the that the total equation is both the 450 00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:13,960 shoe and the human being. So there are people that can do 451 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:18,560 that, but you would also have to have a foam and a material that 452 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:22,600 reforms to its original form enough that it doesn't deform 453 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,760 because a lot of people are very sensitive with it when they 454 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,920 really wear that shoe a certain way. 455 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,520 You're going to get, you know, excessive stresses on certain 456 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,200 area because you're exacerbating the mechanic. 457 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,360 So it's a question of do you have the materials that are 458 00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:36,360 durable enough, but you also have materials that are 459 00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:40,920 resilient enough to the changes that occur in a shoe that a 460 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,680 runner impacts into it. So it's not just, hey, can we 461 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,520 not have the outsole wear off? It's can the structure 462 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,040 properties of the shoe maintain us? 463 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,960 So the human being, it's consistent enough for the human 464 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,440 being that it doesn't cause issues for them. 465 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,160 Because as soon as you get injured a shoe off and be like, 466 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:57,320 I don't want to wear this anymore. 467 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,440 And that that there's, there's a portion of durability to that, 468 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,600 but that's more the human being reacting to the shoe. 469 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,480 So it's a two-part question and making sure you're looking at 470 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,800 both parts of the equation. Yeah, you're so right. 471 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,320 I have a buddy who runs in his shoes for over 1000 time, 1000 472 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,400 miles every single time, regardless of the shoe, he's 473 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,200 just going to do it because he's like, well, I bought it, so I'm 474 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,440 going to run into the ground. So and then it's used for 475 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,720 another five years on his feet for every day. 476 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,560 So no judgement. No, I think it's great he's 477 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,800 getting used out of it. OK, let's move on to our next 478 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:31,520 questions. This is a series of questions 479 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,400 from Evan Day at Brooks, who's also been on the podcast. 480 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,040 And his first question is this, what does the average runner put 481 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,200 up with that they don't know that could be better. 482 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,600 Then he gives a couple examples like tight midfoot fit, mediocre 483 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,240 traction, etcetera that he he's like, So what, what are they 484 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,240 putting up with that they don't really need to actually put up 485 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,440 with what something that could actually be better that we're 486 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,520 seeing as a general trend across the industry. 487 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,320 I think one that might come up pretty frequently is 4 foot 488 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,800 width. A lot of people kind of want 489 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,720 wider 4 feet, but they are willing to look the other way 490 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,080 because of the other components in the shoe and how it responds 491 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,960 to them. Not to say that's a blanket 492 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,640 statement that, you know, everyone needs wide 4 foot 493 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,240 shoes, but I do feel like that's something that comes up pretty 494 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,480 frequently, specifically 4 foot width. 495 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:29,600 Yeah, that probably my answer. Mine was going to be 4 foot 496 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,640 volume. I I feel like it's just been a 497 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,960 trend where like they've been getting so low. 498 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,040 Like. Super low vamps and you kind of 499 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,320 it's just not comfortable and that doesn't need to be that 500 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,640 way. I'd also think if we think about 501 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:46,720 certain kind of like pockets of the running industry and like 502 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,000 people who are buying running shoes, there are so many people 503 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,800 who there are more people who are running that don't care 504 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,760 about Doctors running Podcast or believe in the Run or Rd. 505 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:01,920 Trail Run or any like of this or Kofuzi, like any of this run 506 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,640 shoe review world. There are way more people there 507 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,040 than the ones who are following what's going on here. 508 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,480 I think that there are a lot of people that don't know that they 509 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:16,280 don't need to put up with like a brick of a shoe that are super 510 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,000 firm and that don't have any geometric shaping to them, like 511 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,840 no heel bevel, like they just they buy. 512 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,880 Yeah, that was for you, Matt. Thank you. 513 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,720 You know, I think that there are a lot of people who just go buy, 514 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:37,040 you know, a shoe from the a local, it's like big box store 515 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,640 and they don't realize that they don't need to have something 516 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,120 that has doesn't have any geometric shaping to make 517 00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:44,640 running easier, especially when they're going out to buy 518 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,360 something that's running in particular, but that's for a 519 00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:50,880 certain population. I was going to say volume as 520 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,080 well, especially in the forefoot. 521 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,560 I've noticed things are getting much lower and lower and lower 522 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,280 and I'm very lucky to have a fairly normal to slightly lower 523 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,520 volume foot. But feet are, it's not just 524 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,200 about width. You have to think about it in a 525 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:05,920 three-dimensional shape. And there's a lot of people with 526 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,680 higher volume feet that are probably like, OK, and I'm not 527 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,440 saying everything needs to be higher volume. 528 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,520 I'm just saying that there is some thought that needs to be 529 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,000 going into what's happening at least vertically in the foot. 530 00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:21,400 I also think that, Nathan, I think you hit this right in the 531 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,040 head that a lot of runners put up with very poorly made shoes 532 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:26,600 on. I'm not saying that the running 533 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,400 industries do this. I'm saying like a lot of the big 534 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,800 box stuff, a lot of the stuff that I see people wearing 535 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,920 casually or like, you know, recreational runners wearing, 536 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,000 they're just like not good in terms of the geometry is not 537 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,560 good. It's they're not really 538 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:43,800 following natural bio mechanics of human right, human gates and 539 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,160 running. And they just buy it because 540 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,760 they it was advertised to them or they thought this is just the 541 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,640 best thing. I think like comfort definitely 542 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,320 of shoes is probably the big thing. 543 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,800 And I think of things across the industry have gotten a lot 544 00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,680 better. But where it's challenging 545 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,880 because the majority of runners aren't going and probably buying 546 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:04,360 a super, you know, expensive shoe. 547 00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:07,360 Like we are very lucky to get to test what we do. 548 00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:09,640 And also even if we weren't testing to be able to afford 549 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,800 decent running shoes, but 150 bucks is quite a bit of money. 550 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,120 And most people are not going to buy that. 551 00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:17,600 They're going to go to their big box store and buy a $5040 552 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,760 running shoe. And I think that across the 553 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,680 industry, even into the more budget options, having 554 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:28,320 appropriate geometry in running shoes and footwear in general is 555 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,080 really important. Like I see a lot of casual stuff 556 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,480 that blows my mind going, why would people wear that? 557 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,120 I cannot imagine how that that must be so uncomfortable. 558 00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:38,320 People will wear things for the fashion stick, which I cannot 559 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,280 judge. But my bias as APT is that I 560 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:47,040 think geometry, fit and overall comfort can continue to get 561 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,360 better, and it has in the more expensive stuff. 562 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,440 But I can't say the same thing for what really most people are 563 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,960 buying, and that's challenging. And actually, you know, I know 564 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,160 this is coming from a Brooks person, but I think in that 565 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,640 realm, I think that something that Brooks is still doing that 566 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,480 a lot of companies aren't, is producing multiple shoes that 567 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,000 still are around $100 to buy. I think the Rebel still 100. 568 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,000 I think the launch is still 100 or 110 or something. 569 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,440 The trace is right around there. And they, they, I think Brooks 570 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,760 pays attention to that group of people when we've had when we've 571 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,200 had them on the podcast. They care about the person who's 572 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:25,840 just trying to like run to be healthy. 573 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:27,840 They don't care. They do care. 574 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:29,960 Probably I don't. But my point is like their 575 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:34,600 primary concern is, are not the like shoe nerds who come follow? 576 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,000 These. Things yeah like they they want 577 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,480 to reach the the everybody and so I think that's valuable to 578 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,120 have and there are other companies that have shoes that 579 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,320 are in that realm but like the cohesion from Saucony is shaped 580 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,920 pretty well but it is a little bit for it's and it uses power 581 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,520 run I think now or at least ever run which isn't that bad but. 582 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,040 But it's been upgraded, yes. So they exist. 583 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:01,960 They yeah, they exist, yeah. And it has been weird with the 584 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,680 volume thing. Like for me, the two companies 585 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:09,800 that have gone down in volume have been ultra ironically and 586 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,840 and New Balance because. And both of those used to be so 587 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:18,080 roomy. And in general, Puma is pretty 588 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,680 low volume for me as well. And I actually sized up in Puma 589 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,320 for the first time and I'm like super pumped about it. 590 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,960 It's been fitting so well and I am enjoying running in it. 591 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,360 But yeah, I've been surprised with New Balance and Ultra, like 592 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,080 just dropping the height of their toe boxes. 593 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,760 It's weird. New Balance has gone back and 594 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,680 forth a couple times over my since I was working in running 595 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,440 stores where it like they were super wide and then they got 596 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,400 narrow and then they go back to being wide and then they get 597 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,240 it's kind of like things kind of fluctuate. 598 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,960 Ultra is the interesting one where the volume is definitely 599 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,280 decreased over the last couple years. 600 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:56,880 I'm curious too with New Balance if they use different lasts for 601 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:02,200 their fuel cell line and their like their fresh foam line, 602 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,160 because I do think like I've been running in the Balos or 603 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,280 Balos or whatever and in the more I've put them both on and 604 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,800 they fit pretty different. And I find that also and I guess 605 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,120 those are both fresh foam. So that's a terrible example. 606 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:22,080 But when I think about like the Rebel V3, that one was really 607 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:29,320 snug for me and SC Trainer V2, the SC trail like those were all 608 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,680 more anyway. I have a comment for New 609 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:33,800 Balance. Yeah. 610 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,640 Why was the Minimus series not called the Less and then you 611 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,360 have the more which is the Max cushion? 612 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,440 Well, the minimus line was out before, wasn't it? 613 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,680 I'm just saying I think it would have made more sense to. 614 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:48,400 Be balanced the less. Maybe you should have called it 615 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,320 Maximus. Not like less. 616 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,800 Instead of more anyway. Terrible. 617 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,480 Well, let's move forward. OK, Next question from Evan is, 618 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,920 is the old speed build dead? Meaning light, low stack, 619 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:09,960 flexible racers. Are those dead I. 620 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,480 Don't think so. I'm going to say for the moment, 621 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,720 yes. Now there are some exceptions to 622 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:19,680 this. Matt, I have a question. 623 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,480 Yeah, dead. Dead means like dead. 624 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,240 Like gone. Yeah, like for the you're like 625 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,400 for the moment, I guess you can meet. 626 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,000 All right, I'll, I will, I will clarify this. 627 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,320 I'm going to say yes. Honestly, but. 628 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,160 That that's the quote of the podcast Dead means. 629 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:44,320 Dead dead I'm going to say yes with some mild exceptions that 630 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:49,960 those low stack shoes that are flexible like for racing speed 631 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:51,960 stuff I feel like most people are want. 632 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,000 Tip of Cyclone 2. Yeah, I was just thinking about. 633 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,200 That that's not that's not low stack though, guys, that's. 20 634 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:00,600 what's the stack head on that? What is? 635 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,680 It I'm saying less, I maybe I'm thinking like less than 20. 636 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,120 I'm thinking the OG stuff like I'm thinking the Saucony type a 637 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,800 Mizuna wave universe, that that kind of stuff was what I'm I'm 638 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,120 thinking. Type A less than 20. 639 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,280 I think it was. It was low. 640 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,440 It was definitely low. I'll look some stuff up while 641 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,680 you'll talk. But I do think that that is gone 642 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,800 because I think you're going to still have those moderate stack 643 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:31,840 height stuff like the Cielo Rd. the Tikumi Sen doesn't count as 644 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:33,960 low stack because there's actually, it's actually pretty 645 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:35,680 high stack, even though it looks like it. 646 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:41,040 But I, I do think the low, low stack stuff is gone. 647 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,880 I think what you'll see is people continuing to get more 648 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,720 and more advanced resilient foams keeping these maximalist 649 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,840 geometry because to really maximize the foams, you need 650 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,880 more material for it to be able to compress and then reform. 651 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,160 So and the market really hasn't gone in that direction. 652 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,520 So unless something crazy happened with foams and jump 653 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,840 stuff like that, I don't think people are going to want that. 654 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:12,760 So, but who knows, you know, there might be a market for 655 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,480 going, hey, you have this super shoe, maybe you need to learn to 656 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,360 be a little bit smarter with this and you shouldn't train 657 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,760 with this all the time. If you use kind of a more 658 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,800 moderate stack height, solid flexible shoe for your worst 659 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,440 speed days, you're actually going to get more just from 660 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,840 Justin's Maddie's study that talking about you get more of an 661 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,320 economy benefit, a training benefit out of running in those 662 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,360 kind of more traditional training like rate, like speed 663 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,679 shoes. Maybe people might think that, 664 00:34:38,679 --> 00:34:40,280 but most runners aren't going to want to do that. 665 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,440 They're going to want one shoe. I just want the fastest shoe. 666 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,239 I want to do this. And so I I think they're dead, 667 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,600 sadly. I think of it from a different 668 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,679 lane. I think of it from kind of a 669 00:34:50,679 --> 00:34:53,480 youth athletic scene. I think of like high school 670 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:58,800 cross country and like the Nike. The Nike Streak series is still 671 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:00,840 going right. Streak Streak Lt. whatever they 672 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:02,040 call it. No, that's gone. 673 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,080 That's that's gone. It's gone somebody. 674 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:06,920 Correctly around Saucony Kilkeny. 675 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,760 That's very. Like there's different low stack 676 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,880 racing shoes that people still like that feeling for going 677 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,920 fast. Is that spike that's cross 678 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:17,160 country spike are we talking about? 679 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,520 Like I mean, California is like the only state on the planet 680 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,160 that doesn't allow high schoolers or spikes. 681 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,880 So I think it still stands. But like there's people that 682 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,600 crave low stack racing shoes and you look at a collegiate setting 683 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,360 and everyone's wearing track spikes out on cross courses or, 684 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,280 or on the track. And there are some low profile 685 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,360 flats that people have used, you know, for racing as well. 686 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,440 You know, before the audios ended up becoming kind of a 687 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,600 lightweight trainer, that's what a lot of people race races in 688 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,080 that they either were tuning training for or they just wanted 689 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:56,960 a little bit more on them then let's say the XC series spike 690 00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,080 that they had. So I think there's still a want 691 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:01,200 for it. I just don't think it's the 692 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,840 general population like, and, and I think that's kind of been 693 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,800 the case with the performance category for a long time up 694 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,880 until very recently when, you know, the Super shoes kind of 695 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:15,000 became popular, but like racing shoes never were that popular 696 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,720 for a lot of. People, that's why it's crazy 697 00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:20,920 now that the like super, you see so many recreational runners 698 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,280 with super shoes because before those came out, you didn't see 699 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,400 people, the average person buying a racing flat like or 700 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,000 like a super shoe. It was just they would treat 701 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,360 their trainers. Yeah, this is it was a scary 702 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:32,600 shoe. And honestly, when you put them 703 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,480 on, you're like, how can I run in this? 704 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:40,560 But yeah, the, the the racing shoes have really become 705 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:42,880 commercialized and I've really gone out. 706 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,160 It's like the most we've ever seen this category sell. 707 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,120 I, I think they're kind of I, I lean towards they're more dead 708 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,280 than not dead and I know that's me, I. 709 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,600 I. Hey, hey, didn't you just say 710 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,080 but but the. Answer is dead or not dead. 711 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,440 I I mean I'd be leaning towards dead like but they're still 712 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,480 they're still alive. I still think they will be alive 713 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,920 for a while. I'm going to say dead as well. 714 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,760 I can't believe Monty Python into that. 715 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:08,960 I'm not. Are we doing like Monty Python? 716 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,480 Like I'm not dead yet? Like, is that what we're doing 717 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,400 here? I like a. 718 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,440 Wisconsin thing. I looked up the specs and I 719 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:21,560 remember Matt, you sent me my first ever pair of like racing 720 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,200 flats. So like I got you the shoe and 721 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:25,960 you should go race it. Do you remember what you sent me 722 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:28,240 or? No, you don't have to. 723 00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:29,920 It's OK. It just means you don't care 724 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:31,400 about our friendship. Did I? 725 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,680 I got him like it was Adidas Adios. 726 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,400 No, it wasn't the audios. No, don't worry, I'll it's fine. 727 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,240 I know you don't care about me. It was like, it's the ASICS 728 00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:44,480 Tarther Edge. Oh, that's. 729 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,800 Right. Yes, I remember that. 730 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,120 You sent me an ASICS Tarther Edge and. 731 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,840 Dude we're talking OG like my memory is not that great. 732 00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:59,480 You also said go ahead, David. Rival waffles still exist too, 733 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,840 and that is going to be a shoe that sells pretty well I think, 734 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:08,280 to a lot of people, so I don't see that one going away. 735 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,160 And then you also sent me a 361 racing flat. 736 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,880 I can't remember the name of it. It was yellow. 737 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,440 It was the I think it was the Faizu. 738 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,280 But either way, those stack. The stack of the Tartar Edge is 739 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,280 25 in the heel, 15 in the four foot, where it's like the stack 740 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:33,240 of the Cyclone two is 2722. So there's a little bit more in 741 00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:34,840 the cyclone, but they weigh the same. 742 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,680 And it's one of those like that's why I think that they're 743 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:43,960 dead is because now we're able to put more foam at the same 744 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,080 weight. So it's like, why would you go 745 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,320 for like the goal of these shoes was to make things as low and 746 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,520 light as possible. Now we don't need them to be low 747 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:53,800 because we can just keep them light. 748 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,560 So I don't think that unless it's it's going to be a very 749 00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:58,880 niche thing, but I don't think that there are companies putting 750 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:05,160 any R&D into these low flat flexible kind of racing shoes. 751 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,920 David, I feel like you got something cooking in your mind. 752 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,960 No, no, I just, I think the lineage of those shoes are still 753 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,200 going to be around because it also is a budget racing option 754 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,880 for a lot of people too, where maybe they can't afford a $250 755 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,760 super shoe to go run their five KN and then they're happy with a 756 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,720 $70.00 flat that is light and decently responsive on their 757 00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:26,280 foot. Yeah, but the people, I feel 758 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,280 like the people who are going to choose the Waffle racer are an 759 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,200 extremely small niche population now that's like, it's not going 760 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:37,720 to be your, it's not dead, but it's not mainstream. 761 00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:40,360 I think that you're still going to get your high school athlete 762 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,680 that's been told, hey, you need a cross spike that might buy 763 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,600 that flat. But like general market, it's 764 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,040 it's dead. But it was never alive to begin 765 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:50,840 with would be my argument. Yeah, that's fair. 766 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,640 No one's ever made any money off of racing flats until recently. 767 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,320 So. But I still wouldn't say. 768 00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,280 You're gonna tell me that the tartar edge like. 769 00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:01,640 No, they. Profited off of that like. 770 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:07,600 Maybe in Japan in in that market in the past, but I think I 771 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:09,000 think. It's always been the long time 772 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,320 argument is that like we don't make any money off of this, but 773 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,160 we make them, you know, like. Right, so your argument. 774 00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:16,800 You don't really invest into those shoes quite as much 775 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,080 because there's just not as many people that are going to buy 776 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:20,320 them. That's always been the case. 777 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,280 Yeah. So maybe the the point would be 778 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,040 those super low stack, the lightweight flexible stuff 779 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,120 really never was that alive to begin with. 780 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:32,560 It was so niche that yeah, it maybe that's the comment. 781 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,360 It wasn't that alive to begin with except for the few number 782 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,440 of people that went racing that stuff because company used to 783 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,840 lose. The companies used to lose money 784 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,240 on creating racing flats because they just couldn't set the 785 00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:47,120 volume. And now I wonder what the the 786 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:51,720 returns are. So I have not been listening but 787 00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:57,120 I have been looking up our our review of the 361 Faisu and I 788 00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:01,480 just need to read part of Also, I had my race worst race ever in 789 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,320 the Phi suit. I was running 1/2 marathon. 790 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:08,120 It was like 95 at race start and I got 5 miles in and I it wasn't 791 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,840 the shoe, it was the day it was like 100% humidity. 792 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,600 It was terrible. All right, here's Matt's 793 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:17,800 thoughts as a DPT from probably five years ago on the 361 Phi 794 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,200 suit. It says the Phi suit is the kind 795 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,240 of shoe that reminds me of how effective and sexy being simple 796 00:41:23,240 --> 00:41:25,000 can be. This is a great looking and 797 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,880 riding shoe yet yet it has a simple Eva midsole. 798 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,200 Good fit that gives a little bit of wiggle room in the forefoot 799 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,400 and the snug heel. There's nothing magic about the 800 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,320 shoe yet it's what I wanted out of so many previous racers. 801 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,440 The Audios, Hyperion, Streak, Chaser, all good shoes but 802 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:40,200 lacked a little something. All these shoes have little 803 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,440 extras, plates, special mid soles, etcetera. 804 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:46,000 The Phi Sue still feels better and faster than all of them, yet 805 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:47,800 only has Eva. Why? 806 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,120 Because sometimes the simplest answer is the best. 807 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,320 That's why many of the Japanese racers, like the ASIC Swordy 808 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,720 series, have changed very little over the years, but remain 809 00:41:56,720 --> 00:41:59,440 favorites in the Asian market. Look at that, I would very I 810 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,160 very much disagree with my statement. 811 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:02,600 The other trees were a lot better. 812 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,080 She. Didn't mind the phase you. 813 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:07,920 I think it would be a solid workout shoe. 814 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,840 I don't know if she used to racing it over like other shoes 815 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,240 that are out, but like if you gave me a pair of Faizy ones 816 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,520 right now, like I could go. And track work belt Faizu. 817 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,640 How about F? BISU, don't go. 818 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:21,160 We don't need to go any further about this. 819 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,520 We don't need to. I'm sorry, but this is awesome. 820 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:26,960 I'm remembering that that was a great shoe. 821 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:28,240 I really liked it. Yeah. 822 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,600 Not the pacer STI. Think your mind was going pacer 823 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,520 STI? Was going the phase was a great 824 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,160 shoe and I actually did some pretty fast races. 825 00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:40,080 Unit actually. Yeah, it's a good shoe. 826 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,640 OK, that was like when I first started running again. 827 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,440 For like, that's right. Wore that for a 5K. 828 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,280 Remember that. That may have been our first, 829 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,200 like all of us in one review together. 830 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:54,160 It might have, yeah. It was is that time frame. 361 831 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,480 phantom no that. Was later beforehand, that was, 832 00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,080 yeah. That was later what was. 833 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:03,880 It no phantom was beforehand I. Think Phantom Inspire, not fire. 834 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,000 Whatever their stability, I. Think it was the Phantom 2. 835 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:10,840 This is not important. We are going way off. 836 00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:14,840 We are way off. This is vintage. 837 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,000 For those, I wanted some deep cuts. 838 00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:18,440 They're getting Molly. Yes. 839 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:20,360 OK. I'm going to move us on to our 840 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:25,240 next question from Evan. I have to ask this one. 841 00:43:25,240 --> 00:43:27,720 And Matt, I'm just going to pose it to you because you think 842 00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:30,160 about stability a lot. And then we'll go on to another 843 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,640 question. But Evan's question is, what 844 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:36,280 type of quote support doesn't exist that you would like to 845 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:38,120 see? It's a good question. 846 00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,560 Are we talking All right, I'm just going to go and take a shot 847 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:43,320 at this. Yeah. 848 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,560 So I, I'm be careful with how I'm saying this. 849 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,520 I really appreciate where stability is going. 850 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:53,400 The stability I if Evan's talking specifically about a 851 00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:58,600 mechanism, then I would say that the whole move away from post 852 00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,520 isn't necessarily a good thing. I think variety is key. 853 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,360 Like we're seeing a complete disappearance of posted shoes, 854 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:08,080 which, you know, I'm not giving my responsibility for this, but 855 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,840 I think reminding people that different things work for 856 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:14,720 different people is great. And so if people want that post 857 00:44:14,720 --> 00:44:15,880 feeling, it's gone for the market. 858 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,080 So I'd love to see just a teeny bit of that. 859 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,400 You don't need it in every shoe, but it nice to have that option. 860 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,360 Where my brain goes with this is I would really like to see the 861 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,040 light stability category come back. 862 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:31,640 I think that category is pretty much gone and it's disappeared. 863 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:35,520 So you really go neutral moderate stability. 864 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,080 Although a lot of the moderate stability shoes are borderline 865 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,840 mild stability right now. But a true mild stability 866 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:46,640 category I think is mostly gone except for the Launch GTS and 867 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,600 the Hyperion GTS. And I'm just biased in that 868 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,360 because Evan asked it. There are a couple on the 869 00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,960 market. But that mild stability category 870 00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,040 is where I would really like to see come back for people that 871 00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:01,440 just need a little bit, but not too much. 872 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,720 They used to be really popular. Do you feel like the existence 873 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:09,200 of geometric shaping of neutral shoes that make them what we've 874 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:13,000 kind of coined as stable neutral has taken over that mild 875 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,000 stability or? Yeah, I think you're right. 876 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,680 I think stable neutral has really taken over that category. 877 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,520 So maybe it's not necessary so. The other thing that you've 878 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,520 talked about in the past that popped into my mind when I read 879 00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:26,440 this question was there's been a couple of shoes. 880 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,720 I think one was from Newton. And then I know that when you 881 00:45:29,720 --> 00:45:33,360 were then when that Puma stability shoe came out, they 882 00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,240 had some of this worked in too, but kind of some more stuff 883 00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:39,480 directed at the forefoot and. Yes, forefoot stability, that's 884 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:40,120 a great. Yeah. 885 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:41,680 I apologize, I didn't think of the. 886 00:45:41,720 --> 00:45:43,600 Struggle with things where I'm like, oh, I kind of wish this 887 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:45,320 was just a little bit more stable in the forefront. 888 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:49,760 Yeah, because the Puma, the Puma, the front was great, the 889 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,560 back half was not good and that ruined that shoe for. 890 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:53,960 Me. That was the forever run, right? 891 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,920 Yeah, I think so. I the last you I remember before 892 00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,880 that to really had that was the the Skechers Forza that actually 893 00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,360 had stability that went all the way in the forefoot. 894 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:08,000 So yeah, that's probably another thing. 4 foot stability, like 895 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,680 true forefoot stability pretty much doesn't exist. 896 00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:15,400 And people hopefully the more that we've talked about this, 897 00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:18,680 understand that the arch isn't just the midfoot. 898 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:22,200 There are multiple parts to it and people can have challenges 899 00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,040 with controlling motion at different points, so I think the 900 00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,640 forefoot is definitely something that I'd love to see a little 901 00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:31,320 bit more of because it usually gets forgotten behind the 902 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:32,960 midfoot and heel. That's a really good point. 903 00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:35,920 Sweet. All right, let's move on to the 904 00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,960 next question. And this is from Elizabeth at 905 00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:43,240 Running Explained. Hey, Elizabeth, we are, we need 906 00:46:43,240 --> 00:46:44,720 to reach back out to get you on the podcast. 907 00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:46,160 We've been talking about that. All right. 908 00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,080 Anyway, yeah, her question is given the significant 909 00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:52,440 advancements in shoe technology over the past decade, decade, do 910 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,680 you foresee any potential future limits on what is considered, 911 00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,200 quote, race legal beyond just capping stack height? 912 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,160 And I think that there have been some others, I think you can't 913 00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,720 have multiple plates stacked on top of each other. 914 00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:08,080 There's some other like basically spring mechanisms that 915 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:12,000 they have have eliminated. But any other thoughts on this 916 00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,720 question? I mean, they already said it. 917 00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:19,160 So like black and white there. I if they do, it's not going to 918 00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,600 be for a little bit unless there's some like massive, you 919 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:25,760 know, performance Hansing thing within the mechanisms that have 920 00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:27,800 been made. You're not allowed to use 921 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,240 Flubber as a midsole material. My gosh, Flubber. 922 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:34,600 I don't know. Yeah, They've already made it 923 00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,640 pretty rigid. Yeah, that's a great question. 924 00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:39,400 I'm not that I can think of personally. 925 00:47:39,720 --> 00:47:45,760 I think that there are going to be innovations that come out in 926 00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,640 shoes that some of them are just going to flop hard. 927 00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:52,080 But I think if there's going to be other ways to construct 928 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:56,280 materials that aren't necessarily foam or like a plate 929 00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,720 as we currently think of them that provide some return that we 930 00:47:59,720 --> 00:48:04,120 may not see now and I could see. But I think it's going to take a 931 00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:08,560 very creative innovation to change them. 932 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,800 Again, I don't think anything that we have now that we have 933 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:17,240 seen in the works is going to go beyond what's currently there 934 00:48:17,240 --> 00:48:21,800 with kind of avoiding springs and the stack height. 935 00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:25,000 So it's going to be something that I don't know about that 936 00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,280 would have to change it. David, do you have further 937 00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,400 thoughts on it? No, no. 938 00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,880 I mean, that's all pretty consistent with with what I'm 939 00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,200 thinking, but I think it would have to take something truly, 940 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:36,840 you know? Remarkable. 941 00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:38,400 Shake. Shake the industry up? 942 00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,880 Yeah. Yeah, I think that's when I 943 00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:46,000 think about that. I'm like that year in the 944 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,520 Olympics when those suits came out and then they're like, all 945 00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,120 right, we're not going to use these suits anymore. 946 00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,280 It's going to be something like that where it's like this, 947 00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,120 either it has to just become this is the new standard that 948 00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:01,240 everyone needs to have equal access to, or that's just too 949 00:49:01,240 --> 00:49:05,320 much advantage. Now we can't even like can't 950 00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:10,240 even have meaningful records anymore because it's just a 951 00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:13,080 whole new sport and I don't think we're quite there yet. 952 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,600 Even with what we have now. That'd be a whole other 953 00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,800 question. All right, let's move forward to 954 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,200 the next question. This is from Victoria, from 955 00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:24,040 Train Smart Run Strong. She's a fellow PT. 956 00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:27,400 Hello. And she's asking if you could 957 00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,640 relate your personality to any running shoe, which shoe would 958 00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:33,840 you pick and why? Who wants to go first? 959 00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:37,040 Matt, you have one so I can see the look on your face. 960 00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:38,880 You should just. Do it hopefully, hopefully this 961 00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,400 is funny. I feel like the Mizuno Wave 962 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:45,800 Rebellion Pro would be the shoe that fits my personality because 963 00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:48,040 you look at you're like, what is this? 964 00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,800 How is this going to work? Fits just a little bit off. 965 00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:55,600 And you're like, there's no way that this is a thing. 966 00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:57,920 And then like, if you have anybody who's actually seen me 967 00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,360 run before, which Nathan and David can both can confirm, when 968 00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,960 you watch me run, there's like, there's no way he's going 969 00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,800 forwards. That makes no sense. 970 00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,760 And yeah, they, the heels also cut off too, so I don't have 971 00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:11,240 anything to wear. That's why durability is so 972 00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:11,640 great. Yeah. 973 00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,520 When I say when I watch you run, I'm like how does this dude like 974 00:50:15,720 --> 00:50:20,080 run a 15 minute 5K? Like I just don't understand how 975 00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,000 these things line up. It's crazy to me. 976 00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,720 Yeah, My coach in college when we were, it was just the two of 977 00:50:26,720 --> 00:50:28,960 us flying to nationals because it was the only one to make 978 00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:30,240 cross country nationals. He looks at me. 979 00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:34,200 He goes, Kleiner, if you told me four years ago that I was going 980 00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:37,040 to be sitting on the plane going to nationals with you, I would. 981 00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:38,960 And then I can't repeat what he said next. 982 00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:40,520 And I was like, all right, thanks, coach. 983 00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:43,840 This is really, I have terribly sick. 984 00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,960 I think I'm going to die. And this is the worst pep talk. 985 00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:49,240 Thanks a lot. My pick for you is going to 986 00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:54,200 actually be the Adidas audio strung to prime X. 987 00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,920 Oh my gosh, Prime X2. I'm definitely tired strong 988 00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:02,600 Prime X2 kind of similar where it's just like it there's a lot 989 00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:04,320 there. There's just like and it's 990 00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:07,960 there's a lot under foot and. Maybe that might be better 991 00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:10,840 because I can handle, I mean, the newest version, not quite as 992 00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,120 quick, but it can handle training some racing, it can do 993 00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:15,680 a little everything, but it just looks weird and you're like, 994 00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:17,960 what is? Whose idea was this? 995 00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,600 But somehow it executes and it keeps going through things. 996 00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:23,440 You're like, I don't understand how you're still going. 997 00:51:23,720 --> 00:51:29,640 And it epitomizes to like of all of us, the person who gets antsy 998 00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:33,160 for shoes the most is Matt by by by a million. 999 00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,800 Like Matt is like waiting for shoes to come to his door. 1000 00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,240 Everyone else is like we're. Nathan, are we getting this? 1001 00:51:39,240 --> 00:51:40,320 Nathan, are we getting this? We're. 1002 00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:43,680 Totally fine, but Matt's always waiting. 1003 00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:46,040 I feel like the strong Acts Too is like the epitome of a shoe 1004 00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:50,840 that Matt would see and be like I need, I need that and I'm 1005 00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:56,800 going to buy it for $8000. I have learned not to do that. 1006 00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,400 For those who don't know and some OG listeners, I have done 1007 00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,040 some stupid purchases just to get a shoe and occasional is 1008 00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:05,120 backfired because the shoe that that shoe was also then showed 1009 00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:06,480 up like two days later. I'm like. 1010 00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:10,120 Yeah, and that's after he would say, should I get this? 1011 00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:11,400 And I'm like, no, it's going to be coming. 1012 00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:15,000 He's like, OK, I'll get it. Got it. 1013 00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:18,040 All right, David, what do you got? 1014 00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,560 You know, I don't really have anything too glamorous like the 1015 00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:24,680 one that like comes to mind for me. 1016 00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:28,280 I think I'd probably say the Mizuno Wave Rider series. 1017 00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:33,600 Oh, that's a good choice. I I feel like it's consistent. 1018 00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:37,120 It doesn't change too much. It's pretty low key for the most 1019 00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:40,920 part and it gets the job done. It can do a little bit of 1020 00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,800 everything like you're saying and it's, you know, I don't 1021 00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,040 know, it's pretty durable and it's kind of just always there. 1022 00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,720 So I don't know. Have you run to the new one yet? 1023 00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:51,720 Tomorrow maiden voyage. Got it. 1024 00:52:51,720 --> 00:52:52,920 Hail. That's exciting. 1025 00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,520 I thought you were going to say Toroko to bring that back as 1026 00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:57,920 well. Yeah, 361 Toroko, baby, let's 1027 00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:01,400 go. That's another like if you have 1028 00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,680 not been following us from the very beginning, you have no idea 1029 00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:04,920 what that means you. Don't know what we're talking. 1030 00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:06,920 About and we're only doing that for the 200th episode. 1031 00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:09,560 No, that's good. Matt, do you have one for David 1032 00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:11,160 that came to came into your mind? 1033 00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:14,360 Is somewhere out there. Very sad that I did not say it 1034 00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:16,480 was. Probably going to be the IT was 1035 00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:18,720 going to be the Toroko. Honestly it's a joke and now I'm 1036 00:53:18,720 --> 00:53:20,360 lost because. David took it. 1037 00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:25,920 I didn't. So I haven't picked the shoe for 1038 00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,600 David, but the vibe that I have for David is in the realm of the 1039 00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:34,080 Cyclone 2 where it's like the shoe that I could like pretty 1040 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,280 much do whatever in or like the Canvara. 1041 00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:38,320 Like maybe it's the Canvara because I remember when you 1042 00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,640 would run the Canvara because I see you as a person who's just 1043 00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:46,560 like pretty chill, like I'm up for whatever and I'm going to 1044 00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:48,560 like be consistent and eat tacos. 1045 00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,400 And so I feel like for, for you that can borrow the shoe that 1046 00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,400 can borrow. You took it on like 22 mile runs 1047 00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,280 and then you would do like short interval workouts with it and 1048 00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,600 you just kind of like did everything and you're like, it's 1049 00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:00,800 a good shoe. And then you'd be like, yeah, 1050 00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:02,160 it's a trail shoe too, by the way. 1051 00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:04,400 You just like do everything with it. 1052 00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,760 So the like the Canvara or like that vibe where you would that 1053 00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,960 it would spread the gamut and just kind of because it's been 1054 00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:12,800 there for a long time. That's why the Cyclone doesn't 1055 00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:14,240 work. So it hasn't been there forever. 1056 00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:16,960 Consistency. I think there's a lineage with 1057 00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:21,720 the with the Canvara that nothing fancy, but although 1058 00:54:21,720 --> 00:54:25,920 you're fancy, you're you're from Santa Santa Barbara, so or live 1059 00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:30,880 in Santa Barbara. I was kind of in a similar lines 1060 00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:33,320 with you, David, in terms of like I was trying to think of 1061 00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:36,480 like a shoe that isn't too fancy. 1062 00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:41,000 But also I feel like I haven't come into my own personality 1063 00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:45,560 until like maybe the last ten years, like since meeting Jana 1064 00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:49,000 and she's like helped me a lot in my life. 1065 00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:52,280 And then just like going through kind of refining fire stuff over 1066 00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:54,280 the last couple years and like learning who I am. 1067 00:54:54,720 --> 00:54:58,360 So I wanted a shoe that like is reliable because I think that's 1068 00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:01,160 where I'm at now, but hasn't been around forever. 1069 00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:06,560 And so I'm, I'm going with the ASICS Nova blast series just 1070 00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:09,200 because I think it's now it's turned into this like reliable 1071 00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:12,960 trainer, but they had to like work out the kinks a couple 1072 00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:16,000 years ago with like the first version because from what I 1073 00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:18,680 understand, that shoe wasn't created as like a running shoe. 1074 00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:20,320 They're like, oh, this is kind of just like a shoe. 1075 00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:22,800 And then from what I understand, believe in the run basically 1076 00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:26,920 said to them, this is a running shoe and they're like, oh, OK. 1077 00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:29,720 And then it like they started putting work into it. 1078 00:55:29,720 --> 00:55:33,240 From what I understand, it's kind of a cool story. 1079 00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,080 And so now I see it as one of their more reliable trainers. 1080 00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:38,240 So I can kind of do what it needs to do. 1081 00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:40,640 I like that that's that was good. 1082 00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:44,360 Cool. All right, let's move forward. 1083 00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:48,480 We have two more questions. This one is from Casey McCombs. 1084 00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:52,440 He's been on our show and at the time he was working with Reebok. 1085 00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:54,880 Now he works with a couple different companies. 1086 00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:57,280 I know he's been with Topo and some other stuff like that, 1087 00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:00,440 which is if you haven't here, haven't heard Topo's on the East 1088 00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:04,080 Coast in Massachusetts. It's pretty cool, pretty neat 1089 00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:05,360 company. All right. 1090 00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:09,160 And his question is this, having run in hundreds of shoes now, 1091 00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:12,880 how would you assemble the best shoes of all time? 1092 00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:17,000 What upper would it have? What heel, what offset stack, 1093 00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,160 geometry, toe, spring price point, etcetera. 1094 00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:22,160 I want to hear about your Franken shoe ideas been. 1095 00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,600 Thinking about this for like a day and still don't have an 1096 00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:27,720 answer. I know that's that's hard. 1097 00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:29,920 Can I? I'll take a stab at it though. 1098 00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:31,280 Great. Got it. 1099 00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:35,960 So my ideal shoe would be kind of in the lightweight training 1100 00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:42,000 realm and would have a secure but moderately flexible upper, 1101 00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,720 especially in the forefoot. You would have obviously a 1102 00:56:44,720 --> 00:56:46,720 gusted tongue because that's what I always talk about. 1103 00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:52,040 It would be probably in the 8 to 9 oz range for men's size 9. 1104 00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:54,200 So get in that lightweight trainer category. 1105 00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:57,400 It would have someone in the realm of 6 to 8mm probably. 1106 00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:59,960 That's probably pretty average. I feel like a lot of people can 1107 00:56:59,960 --> 00:57:02,720 handle that. Geometry would obviously have a 1108 00:57:02,720 --> 00:57:08,000 posterior lateral bevel obviously, and then it would 1109 00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:11,360 have a good, it would have a good rocker in the forefoot, but 1110 00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:14,720 there would be no toe spring. It would have like completely 1111 00:57:14,720 --> 00:57:17,760 flat. It would be mildly to moderately 1112 00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:20,440 flexible, just enough that feels comfortable, but not so much 1113 00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:23,760 it's going to irritate the toes. Price point, I'd like to keep 1114 00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:27,720 this within understanding the industry within like 120 a 130 1115 00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:28,920 bucks. I feel like that's going to be 1116 00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:30,840 better to be able to reach people and then when it gets 1117 00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:32,920 discounted, hopefully it reaches even more people. 1118 00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:36,760 But yeah, that kind of lightweight trainer, something 1119 00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:40,120 you can strap on for almost anything out there. 1120 00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:43,400 A long run a it'd probably be more in that moderate to higher 1121 00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:46,760 stack range. But that versatile shoe that 1122 00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:49,360 runners, especially getting into the sport can go, I can just put 1123 00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:52,760 this on and not think about this and just go do almost whatever 1124 00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:58,120 would kind of be my shoe that I I would create at the moment. 1125 00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,080 Am I next? I was going to just be quiet. 1126 00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:03,200 Until you talk. So I said something. 1127 00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:10,000 I'm not ready to, yeah. I think for me, I would probably 1128 00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:15,520 like to have a shoe that's kind of like what the OG Mizuno Wave 1129 00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:21,080 Rebellion wanted to be, kind of like a lightweight, snappy. 1130 00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:24,120 I like my firm boys. Like I don't really like super 1131 00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:26,720 mushy compliant foams. They tend to hurt my feet. 1132 00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:30,520 So something that has just a little bit more, you know, just 1133 00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:36,240 resilience, not quite as compliant, but I don't really, I 1134 00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:39,760 like some flexibility, but I don't really want it to be like 1135 00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,600 super flexible. The only like real exception of 1136 00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:44,920 that would probably be the Cyclone two and the Canvara have 1137 00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:46,320 worked really well for me. And those are both pretty 1138 00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:48,840 flexible shoes. But I think if I was like 1139 00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,360 wanting something I can like, I don't know, I kind of like 1140 00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:52,600 having just a little bit of rigidity. 1141 00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:56,840 I'm with Klein on the forefoot, very gradual rocker, but like 1142 00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,360 nothing too crazy going on there. 1143 00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:02,400 I kind of like to really push off of my forefoot in a natural 1144 00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:04,760 way. I probably don't need quite as 1145 00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,360 dramatic of a heel bevel as Klein, just kind of a mild to 1146 00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:12,800 moderate stack height. I probably stay in that 30 1147 00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:18,880 range, maybe down to 22 in the four foot, 8mm drop ish, and I'd 1148 00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:20,280 like to have a little bit of four. 1149 00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:23,600 I do struggle with some 4 foot stability, so I actually maybe a 1150 00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:26,160 little bit of soul flaring there and I'm a traction boy. 1151 00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:29,240 Like I also like if I can feel like I'm kind of clawing the 1152 00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:32,360 ground, that'd be great weight range. 1153 00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:35,160 If I mean, if you could get all of that in, in eight ish 1154 00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:38,240 9:00-ish oz package, I think that could be a really fun shoe 1155 00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:43,120 to run in that probably like kind of like my Franken shoe. 1156 00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:46,160 Price point, where do you where do you see a shoe like that 1157 00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:48,160 being able to fall? Yeah. 1158 00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:51,160 I mean, if it's got like pretty good materials, doesn't 1159 00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:53,720 necessarily have to be plated, you know, whether it's like a 1160 00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:57,760 maybe a plastic plate of some kind, whether nylon P backs or 1161 00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:00,680 or not plated at all. I'd be fine with any of those 1162 01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:03,480 options. I'm thinking probably like in 1163 01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:08,200 the 160 ish range, kind of like a lightweight trainer that can 1164 01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:10,840 kind of hit a little bit of everything and race if you 1165 01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:14,000 really wanted to. Yeah, I, I think that when I 1166 01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:18,040 hear this question, like my, my mind zeroes in on that word 1167 01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:19,800 best. And I'm always like best for 1168 01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:21,520 what? Like what do I want it to be 1169 01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:25,320 best for? And my mind when I read it is 1170 01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:27,920 like just kind of best all around shoe, which kind of 1171 01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:30,640 brings me to a boring answer that's very similar to a lot of 1172 01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:34,600 the stuff that y'all just said. And so, you know, I would also 1173 01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:39,040 want something that is not not plated for the sake of 1174 01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:42,120 performance, but I'd be OK if a plate was in there for 1175 01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:45,040 stabilizing the foam because I think for me, I will. 1176 01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:48,720 I really that's why I like the run cat scales because it 1177 01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:51,560 doesn't necessarily put things on like a softest to firmus, but 1178 01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:55,480 it's like what's softer, too soft or too firm for you And for 1179 01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:59,640 for myself, like I think that I like things that fall in the a 1180 01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:02,640 little bit in the middle. If it's too soft, my feet just 1181 01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:06,480 get sore and uncomfortable. David and I are like, we talked 1182 01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:10,680 about foot injuries last week. We're kind of stuff, yeah, like 1183 01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:13,760 we can't fully handle it. And so if it's too soft, I just 1184 01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:16,000 have a problem. If it's too firm, it's just not 1185 01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:18,480 fun to run in. Like I we're bringing up 361 a 1186 01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:21,840 lot, but the 361 Fierce, I think it was like the first version of 1187 01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:23,880 that. It was that one was so firm that 1188 01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:27,360 I couldn't handle it. So I think from a softness 1189 01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:32,280 perspective, I really like the softness of power on PB in the 1190 01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:36,120 speed. I also like the softness level 1191 01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:40,520 of the DV83 from Puma. I think that that's like the 1192 01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,240 sweet spot for me. Or it's cushioned, but it's not 1193 01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:45,440 like mushy. When it gets mushy, I don't like 1194 01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:47,600 it so much. So I like that soft, but a 1195 01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:51,120 little bit more rebound. I'd put like the Nova Blast 1196 01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:52,880 cushioning kind of in that same realm. 1197 01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:57,720 I want a rocker, but I don't want toe spring as well because 1198 01:01:57,720 --> 01:01:59,800 I want to be able to do a lot of daily miles. 1199 01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:03,560 And again, if a plate's in there, it's got to only be for 1200 01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:07,000 stabilizing the foam, not for like really stiffening up the 1201 01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:09,960 forefoot. I would want to heal bevel too. 1202 01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:15,040 I, I like kind of that 6 to 8mm drop and probably cushioning 1203 01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:21,000 like stack wise somewhere between 28 to 38 somewhere in 1204 01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:23,200 that realm between the heel and the forefoot. 1205 01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:26,680 And it feel like it's a lot to ask for, but I'd want it to be 1206 01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:31,160 100 under 150 under 140 for like a really nice trainer, which I 1207 01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:33,840 like. I feel like a shoe that's 1208 01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:38,440 actually really close is the Trinusa from ASIC because the. 1209 01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:40,400 Other. That's also one part of the 1210 01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:42,440 inspiration of what I was saying too. 1211 01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:45,440 But some. Use a little. 1212 01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:49,360 Less toe spring and a little wider midfoot because I think 1213 01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:52,000 the other, the thing that I want is like a slightly softer foam, 1214 01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:53,880 but I don't want it to narrow out in the midfoot. 1215 01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:57,160 I want that to stay a little bit wider, but I also don't want a 1216 01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:01,960 ton of heel flaring laterally in the rear foot to make it too 1217 01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:05,160 wide like I don't need that. So that's why I like like the 1218 01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:08,560 speed versus something like the Super blast, which I like the 1219 01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:11,720 Super blast and the new ones. I I enjoy it a lot, but that's 1220 01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:14,160 just super wide in the rear foot. 1221 01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:18,600 So that's what I would, that's what I would say, yeah, man, I. 1222 01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,280 Don't know why I forgot to say stable, neutral or mild 1223 01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:24,120 stability of all things, yes I'm tired. 1224 01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:28,400 Yeah, but why you don't? You have your PhD now. 1225 01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:30,440 You can't be tired. It's not like you're a dad with 1226 01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:34,520 a young child and a job and you're still doing editors for 1227 01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:36,960 your dissertation. Yeah, so I still have to submit 1228 01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:38,400 the dissertation, which takes forever. 1229 01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:40,960 Yeah. OK. 1230 01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:44,080 We are on our final question of the 200th episode of the 1231 01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:46,440 podcast. And this is from our very own 1232 01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:50,320 Bach Pham. And if you could in the comments 1233 01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:53,360 below, if you're still with us after an hour and 5 minutes, you 1234 01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:56,360 should drop him. So Box, our media manager, he 1235 01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:59,680 gets all of our content out on our social media and on our 1236 01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:00,960 website. And he's going to hate me for 1237 01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:02,480 saying this, but you should drop him. 1238 01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:08,360 Like thank you, really cool origin story is like he followed 1239 01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:11,040 us as like just kind of like following along with what we 1240 01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:13,000 were doing. He basically sent us an e-mail 1241 01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:15,720 that said, y'all have awesome stuff, but you suck at getting 1242 01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:17,480 it out there. That's not what he said. 1243 01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:20,760 But if you're and he's, he's like, this is what I can help 1244 01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:23,520 you do. And so he has been so pivotal in 1245 01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:27,600 helping our reach grow in a way that's actually made our work 1246 01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:30,120 feel way more meaningful. So huge thank you to him. 1247 01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:34,400 And then you can also give a shout out and thank you to BJ. 1248 01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:37,880 He was also following along with what you're doing. 1249 01:04:37,880 --> 01:04:41,440 And we were having a lot of issues with this podcast in our 1250 01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:43,720 audio quality. It was really bad. 1251 01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:46,240 And we tried a couple things and it was still really bad. 1252 01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:50,560 And he's like, hey guys, like I could probably help you out. 1253 01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:54,480 And he's just become such an instrumental part of the team. 1254 01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:58,680 And so we're super thankful for Bach and BJ, two faces that you 1255 01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:02,160 don't get to see a lot but play a huge role in getting this 1256 01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:04,960 stuff out there so. Even though I harass both of 1257 01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:07,200 them about trying to get the Boss podcast and they're like, 1258 01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:09,440 yeah. I think we did get BJ on. 1259 01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:11,000 We got BJ on one. Time. 1260 01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:12,720 That's right. Yeah, that's right. 1261 01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:14,880 We haven't. Yeah, all right. 1262 01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:16,200 But here's the question from Bach. 1263 01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:19,480 What is something you'd like to see Doctors of Running do in the 1264 01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:22,480 next 200 episodes of the podcast, and for the group in 1265 01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:26,600 general over the next two years? I feel like I have to go first 1266 01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:27,840 since I've found out of this thing. 1267 01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:32,080 This is your thing Pressure. I really like where we're going 1268 01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:35,960 right now. I like the trajectory there. 1269 01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:39,280 Somebody actually reviewed us a couple days ago and said that 1270 01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:41,960 they were never sure if we actually like the shoe or not 1271 01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:44,280 and I thought that was the biggest compliment we could get 1272 01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:47,000 because it helped. It told me that we are staying 1273 01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:51,040 very unbiased and trying to really figure out who would this 1274 01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:54,200 shoe work for, who would it not would work for and having a 1275 01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:55,800 little sectional. Hey, we kind of like this, but 1276 01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:59,920 also not trying to avoid our personal opinions and try to see 1277 01:05:59,920 --> 01:06:01,880 objective as possible. That was AI don't think that was 1278 01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:04,440 intended as a compliment, but I took it as a huge compliment. 1279 01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:10,480 So I would like us to continue to see what we can do to find 1280 01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:12,240 out what's going to work best for the individual. 1281 01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:14,680 So I think that's all we're doing is continuing to learn, 1282 01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:18,360 grow in our own ways and how we're analyzing things and 1283 01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:21,080 understanding the human beings that come and read our stuff, 1284 01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:24,480 read, view and consume our stuff. 1285 01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:30,560 I'd like us to keep focusing on them and and continue to be 1286 01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:34,560 really careful about not selling product, not getting biased and 1287 01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:37,480 staying very true to the original educational components 1288 01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:41,720 of this. Yeah, that's one of the big 1289 01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:45,880 things in terms of the group in general, I think it's been 1290 01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:47,480 really nice to have a close knit group. 1291 01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:50,400 I know a lot of lot of review sites have gotten bigger and 1292 01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:53,760 bigger and bigger. And I will say that keeping this 1293 01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:56,920 manageable because we all of us have full time jobs. 1294 01:06:56,920 --> 01:06:59,840 This is a thing that we do on the side, you know, So it it 1295 01:06:59,840 --> 01:07:03,080 does take a lot of work and there's a lot of late nights 1296 01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:05,400 writing up reviews or putting the stuff out there. 1297 01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:08,720 But I'd like us to continue that. 1298 01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:11,640 I think this if this ever takes over our lives, that's going to 1299 01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:14,320 be a question we did ask like is this really worth it? 1300 01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:17,520 But the fact that it is supporting us and is a fun thing 1301 01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:20,840 for us to take a break and then and learn, I think that's where 1302 01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:23,560 it needs to go. So I wanted to stay like that. 1303 01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:25,880 And for the moment, I think our group is great. 1304 01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:28,960 We've got a awesome crew. Everybody contributes. 1305 01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:31,120 Everybody knows how to take a joke, give each other a hard 1306 01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:32,600 time, but also be really supportive. 1307 01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:35,320 So I like the trajectory we're going. 1308 01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:38,480 I just want to make sure that we continue to refine, learn and 1309 01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:41,160 grow. So that is where I really want 1310 01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:44,520 us to continue. Super vague but. 1311 01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:45,480 No, that's great. I. 1312 01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:49,560 Think that was great, yeah. I think for myself, I agree with 1313 01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:52,520 with what you said, Matt, and I'm thankful for you and your 1314 01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:54,520 kind of vision for this whole deal. 1315 01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:59,640 And I think bringing Andrea on has been super valuable in 1316 01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:02,040 getting her. I mean, she's just a brilliant 1317 01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:06,320 physical therapist. She's so smart and her ability 1318 01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:10,640 to consider the impacts of shoes, but also beyond, she's 1319 01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:12,880 just, she's just so knowledgeable and has a lot of 1320 01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:15,480 experience, the professional athlete as well from her cycling 1321 01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:18,479 days. So I'm just so thankful that 1322 01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:21,279 she's on the team. I think in the realm of 1323 01:08:21,279 --> 01:08:25,040 continuing the education, I would love for this podcast to 1324 01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:29,000 continue to and even heighten our times that we have the 1325 01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:31,160 researchers on who have performed studies. 1326 01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:34,960 I think there's a level of understanding in depth that they 1327 01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:39,120 are able to provide that you just don't get from even hearing 1328 01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:41,920 us talk or other kind of practitioners. 1329 01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:45,359 There's like super valuable like Praxis and like actually like 1330 01:08:45,359 --> 01:08:47,520 wheels on the ground from practitioners. 1331 01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:52,000 I think that there's just some like depth of understanding that 1332 01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:54,760 we can get from the researchers who are doing the studies and 1333 01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:58,520 know how far can we actually stretch these these results. 1334 01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:01,000 And so I, I would love to continue to bring people on like 1335 01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:03,600 I've got people in mind like Brian Hydershite and Chris 1336 01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:06,880 Powers and Irene Davis and like just starting to bring and bring 1337 01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:10,080 Rich Willie back and bring, bring on a lot of these people 1338 01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:12,520 who are doing meaningful research. 1339 01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:17,840 I think that it fits our how our minds work and we can we can ask 1340 01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:20,720 the meaningful questions that help translate from the 1341 01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:25,680 researcher through the through the practitioner to the runner. 1342 01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:27,040 So I'm hoping we can do more of that. 1343 01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:31,520 I hope in the next two years that we all can get together for 1344 01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:34,359 a fun hangout that's and that has nothing to do with. 1345 01:09:34,359 --> 01:09:35,880 Sorry, I didn't ask that. I didn't. 1346 01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:39,040 Answer that. But I want to just, like get 1347 01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:42,640 everybody to Wisconsin or we all go somewhere in the mountains 1348 01:09:42,640 --> 01:09:45,439 somewhere and just like hang out for a long weekend. 1349 01:09:46,359 --> 01:09:47,840 I think that would be super fun, yeah. 1350 01:09:48,319 --> 01:09:51,439 I definitely agree. I so I'd like to like doubling 1351 01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:54,880 down on who we are in terms of the educational contents and 1352 01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:58,760 being the nerds being the ones. But also, yeah, we need a Dor 1353 01:09:58,760 --> 01:09:59,600 retreat. Finally. 1354 01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:01,320 Things have been pretty crazy, so I think. 1355 01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:04,880 We are ripe for. This in the next two years for 1356 01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:06,920 sure. David, what do you want to see? 1357 01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:09,400 Yeah. You know, I mean, I'm kind of 1358 01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:12,120 piggybacking off of you guys, but it's what I was thinking 1359 01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:14,320 from the start as well. And it's really just building 1360 01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:17,280 off of the educational platform that we do have and staying true 1361 01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:19,880 to our roots. And really, this is ultimately 1362 01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:22,800 for the listeners, this is for our patients, this is for 1363 01:10:22,800 --> 01:10:25,320 everyone that's tuning in to learn more. 1364 01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:30,880 And, you know, I, it's great that we have started to make 1365 01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:33,880 some money from this over the last X amount of years. 1366 01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:36,640 You know, it's, but it's even then, it's not that much in 1367 01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:39,240 comparison to what we make as full time clinicians. 1368 01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:43,080 It's anything really. And so we do this because we 1369 01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:45,040 love it. And I think it's good to build 1370 01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:48,800 off of that and to continue creating an educational 1371 01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:50,560 platform. And we've done it in some other 1372 01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:52,880 ways with like the Monday shakeouts and some other things. 1373 01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:56,000 And obviously that requires more content, more work, those types 1374 01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:58,720 of things. So there's a balance, but I 1375 01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:01,680 think like staying true to the roots and just trying to make 1376 01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:05,960 information as accessible for the listeners as, as best we 1377 01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:08,520 can. And I agree too with having 1378 01:11:08,520 --> 01:11:11,760 certain podcast guests and I, I think it would be nice to branch 1379 01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:13,560 out of the running every once in a while too. 1380 01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:15,920 And you could be shaped towards running, but also towards a 1381 01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:18,520 greater Wellness community as well, whether it's sleep, 1382 01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:22,000 mindfulness, nutrition, like things like that. 1383 01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:26,400 So that's kind of where my brain goes is like we have the a nice 1384 01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:30,720 platform that is built on education and we can educate 1385 01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:34,680 more so. 100% There's one more question. 1386 01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:38,280 Speaking of true to our roots, this is something that we used 1387 01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:40,960 to do for like every single podcast episode is we would 1388 01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:43,880 bring up a shoe and we would say if this shoe was a blank, it was 1389 01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:46,760 like a segment that we did. So we are we are bringing the 1390 01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:50,920 segment back and Bach wrote this and I'm actually modifying it to 1391 01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:54,200 make it even better. Please don't be like if this was 1392 01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:57,360 a sports team if. The ASIC Super Blast team. 1393 01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:03,400 We're an NBA player. What player would it be and why? 1394 01:12:03,400 --> 01:12:06,640 Matt, you go first. Wow, we're really doing true 1395 01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:07,680 roots. So I'm just going to say here 1396 01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:11,080 awkwardly, have no idea. What what we used to do is, is 1397 01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:14,320 have us compare shoes to to like sports stuff and Matt doesn't 1398 01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:16,000 pay attention. Yeah, I have one too. 1399 01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:16,920 I saw. David. 1400 01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:20,040 What's your NBA player? Super blast too. 1401 01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:23,760 It's Nicola Yokich. Oh my gosh, tell me why. 1402 01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:28,800 On the surface, it looks like a lot, you know, but it's actually 1403 01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:32,120 light, it's nimble, it can endure and take a punch. 1404 01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:36,080 Like that guy has played so many full games that like they 1405 01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:37,560 Denver's got to go make him a statue. 1406 01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:42,640 Like he's done so much for that team almost single handedly with 1407 01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:45,920 before he got help. You know, it's around there and 1408 01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:49,240 I feel like it, yeah. It's just like on the surface, 1409 01:12:49,240 --> 01:12:51,800 just looking at it, you're like, I don't know what's going on 1410 01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:54,560 here if you know nothing about the shoe, but then you see it 1411 01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:58,400 perform and it performs quite well and it can endure for 1412 01:12:58,480 --> 01:13:02,320 pretty good amounts of mileage, lengths of distances, etcetera, 1413 01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:04,200 etcetera. Your answer is better. 1414 01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:06,920 My my answer was going to be Tyrese Halliburton. 1415 01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:12,040 Because you have this new guy on the scene who's a little bit 1416 01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:14,880 cocky about who they are pretty like full of themselves. 1417 01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:16,760 And I'm just bitter because the Pacers beat the Bucks. 1418 01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:18,880 But. Yeah, that felt personal. 1419 01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:26,680 It is the NBA makes me so like frustrated anyway, so Tyrese 1420 01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:30,440 Halliburton and like he's a budget super shoe, like a budget 1421 01:13:30,440 --> 01:13:33,200 superstar where he's like he's not actually that good, like 1422 01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:38,600 he's not the meta speed Paris, you know, or the edge, but he or 1423 01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:42,320 Paris, whatever. I can't say words, but he's you 1424 01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:45,480 know, he's still good. Like he's awesome, but he's not 1425 01:13:45,480 --> 01:13:49,120 Yanis, but he's not Yanis. Oh yeah, welcome to. 1426 01:13:49,240 --> 01:13:55,160 Doctors of trash Talk. But I'm like, I wouldn't go and 1427 01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:57,400 say that. I'm just, I'm just being 1428 01:13:58,320 --> 01:14:00,000 whatever. All right, Matt, what's your 1429 01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:02,120 answer? I have no idea. 1430 01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:04,520 I'm going to take a hard pass. I have no idea. 1431 01:14:05,160 --> 01:14:07,800 The original question is if it if the ASIC Super Blast Two was 1432 01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:09,680 a meal, what meal would it be and why? 1433 01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:13,360 I still don't have an answer to answer. 1434 01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:14,680 Give me some time. To a meal. 1435 01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:18,320 A meal, man. Just come up with something. 1436 01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:23,080 We'll wrap it up for everybody. Just say Steph Curry and we'll 1437 01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:25,920 go on with our lives. Like, yes, Steph Curry. 1438 01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:33,040 All right, Well, thank you everyone for joining us, the 1439 01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:36,120 Docs Running podcast, formally known as Docs Running Virtual 1440 01:14:36,120 --> 01:14:38,320 Roundtable. It's been a joy being able to do 1441 01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:40,000 these 200 episodes with all of you. 1442 01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:44,080 And honestly, it's because y'all join us on this that we keep 1443 01:14:44,080 --> 01:14:47,560 doing it. So thank you for joining and 1444 01:14:47,560 --> 01:14:49,400 being a part of this. And if you want to enter the 1445 01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:52,680 giveaway, you just got to follow and subscribe and leave her if 1446 01:14:52,680 --> 01:14:55,240 you can and then just comment on the YouTube video and we will 1447 01:14:55,240 --> 01:14:59,000 get you entered and get that prize pack out to the winner. 1448 01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:01,600 But thank you everybody for joining and we'll talk to you 1449 01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:02,000 next time.