1 00:00:09,040 --> 00:00:11,320 Hey everyone, and welcome to the Doctors Are Running podcast 2 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:13,880 where we, a group of doctors of physical therapy, talked about 3 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,320 the art and the science of the things that we put on our feet 4 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:18,000 today. It's going to be a fun episode. 5 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,760 I have Doctor Miles with me and I, of course, and Matt, Doctor 6 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,160 Klein. We are going to do a mailbag 7 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:24,520 episode. We're going to get through all 8 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,560 the questions or as many of the questions that you are kind 9 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,320 enough to ask to send us and we may not have the opportunity to 10 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,320 get to and respond via e-mail. So we turned it into an episode 11 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,200 of hope that this is not only helpful to you, but also helpful 12 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:37,960 to those who may have similar questions. 13 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,400 So, Andrew, as always, how are you doing right now? 14 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,360 I'm good. I'm enjoying my new Doctors of 15 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,840 Running podcast shirt and more Heel Bevel. 16 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,320 I wore that today for you, Matt. Thank you. 17 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:50,120 Appreciate it. Again. 18 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,880 We're hoping to maybe have merchandise for you guys 19 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:56,480 sometime soon. For those of you who are 20 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:02,080 listening on with a non visual non video, Andrew is wearing one 21 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,200 of the new apparel pieces that we are testing out. 22 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,160 And as mentioned, people been asking about us having 23 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:09,400 merchandise. We are finally getting around to 24 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,240 that and testing some of stuff out right now and hoping to have 25 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,400 it out for you. But yeah it's my favorite one 26 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:17,440 cuz it's got heel bevel. It's awesome. 27 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:19,080 Yeah. What are your thoughts on it so 28 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:19,920 far? Fit. 29 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,440 It's nice. It's a women's cut, which I like 30 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:28,080 cuz it actually like fits well instead of being like a pajama 31 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:32,800 top, which is usually how guys T-shirts fit. 32 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,760 So yeah, it's like a nice soft material. 33 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:38,520 It says doctors are running on the back. 34 00:01:38,960 --> 00:01:44,720 Good job Nate and Bach. And I've got a cool Dor podcast 35 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:46,760 sweatshirt that fits even better. 36 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,520 And then just a normal Dort shirt. 37 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:54,160 So yeah, now I can rock the brand, you know, several days a 38 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:55,400 week now. Yeah, it's awesome. 39 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,240 It's great. I was so my birthday. 40 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,360 My wife and I almost share a birthday. 41 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,400 So last week weekend, we were recording this. 42 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,640 I was wearing that sweatshirt over in Cannon Beach, which 43 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,320 believe it or not, so it's the very classic northwest coastal 44 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:11,400 town. A lot of people go there. 45 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:13,920 I've never been there before, even growing up here. 46 00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:15,800 And so we went over there to celebrate a birthday. 47 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,320 And I was wearing that. And somebody actually recognized 48 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:19,600 me and said, hey, doctors are running. 49 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:21,640 And like, they didn't stop, but they kept going. 50 00:02:21,640 --> 00:02:23,840 And I felt very validated, like, oh, that's, that's cool. 51 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:25,440 That's awesome. So I love it, yes. 52 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,080 For those for those wondering, we are hoping to have that out 53 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,960 available for purchase sometime soon as we really make sure that 54 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,440 this is a good product and fitting well and that we'll get 55 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,680 that out there. So yeah, sweet. 56 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,320 I'm glad you're enjoying that. So let's jump into these 57 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,640 questions and we've gotten a huge variety of things. 58 00:02:42,640 --> 00:02:44,880 Some of them ironically are things that especially Andrea 59 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:46,000 and I've already been talking about. 60 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,240 We might expand on one of these questions a little bit. 61 00:02:48,640 --> 00:02:52,280 But Andrea, do you want to start off and read the first question? 62 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,640 Yes. So Shay asks on Threads, any 63 00:02:55,640 --> 00:02:59,080 recommendations for a stable marathon super shoe that doesn't 64 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,600 Dr. Aggression to the hips, glutes and hamstrings. 65 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,880 The Saucony Endorphin Pro Fours left me hurting in the New York 66 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:08,280 City Marathon. Thanks. 67 00:03:08,920 --> 00:03:12,400 So what do you think, Matt? So when I hear that, one of the 68 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,280 first things that comes to mind is you have to realize that 69 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:20,240 there are some stable neutral super super shoes on. 70 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,000 There are no stability super shoes that exist on the market. 71 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,640 I don't know if there will be. We, you know, I obviously been 72 00:03:25,640 --> 00:03:28,760 talking about this for a little bit, but we'll see what happens. 73 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,160 And you have to realize that by definition, super shoes, one of 74 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,680 the things about them is going to probably generate more 75 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,240 workload up at the hips, knees, glutes, hamstrings. 76 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,320 Because it's a length in your stride, it creates a more hip 77 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:46,080 dominant movement pattern because it's a very tall shoe. 78 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,000 It's a very rocker shoe. Rockers tend to shift workload 79 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:53,200 up toward your knee and hip. So that's kind of what things 80 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,800 are, what's going to happen. There may be ones that might do 81 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,640 that a little bit less, yes. But I'm curious, Andrew, if you 82 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,160 have any thoughts on are there any particular ones that maybe 83 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,760 aren't as aggressive because that's what I hear is going, 84 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:07,880 let's not get the most aggressive thing on the market. 85 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:12,880 So like an alpha fly, a endorphin elite, things like 86 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:14,800 that are probably not going to be appropriate because this is 87 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,600 the most extreme. And is there another thing that 88 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,240 you think might work a little bit better for this individual 89 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:21,480 or do they even need a super shoe? 90 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,480 Yeah, well, I mean, that's a whole question separately 91 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,040 altogether, but people ask me this question a fair amount. 92 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,080 I'm sure you get it too. But, and you touched on it, the 93 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:35,000 two features of the Super shoe that Dr. increased stress at the 94 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:39,320 hip are a big 4 foot rocker and very bouncy foam. 95 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,880 And most super shoes have those features and those features are 96 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,920 what make them feel super to begin with. 97 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,880 But the shoe that always comes to mind, which isn't, you know, 98 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,840 top of the list for super shoes would be the Puma deviate Nitro 99 00:04:53,840 --> 00:04:56,240 3. It's got less of a four foot 100 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,960 rocker. It has the Nitro foam but it's 101 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:03,560 just not quite as bouncy As for example the Endorphin Pro 4, 102 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,680 I'll fly, Meta Speed Edge repair or Sky. 103 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,880 So that would be the first one that I would recommend. 104 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,360 How about your man? Yeah, that that is probably a 105 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,520 good one because that's also going along the lines of like, 106 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:19,960 yes, it's great, it's plated, it can move. 107 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:24,040 You may not necessarily want the most aggressive or bouncy super 108 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,760 shoe, but when they're also talking about a stable one, 109 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,920 that's what's challenging because the Endorphin Pro and 110 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,280 the Endorphin Elite are two ones that probably have some of the 111 00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:35,600 best side walls and maybe might be a little bit more. 112 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,080 I use quotation marks here, stable, neutral being a relative 113 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,160 term. The other two that come to mind 114 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:45,320 is the Hoka Cielo X1, which is probably not a great option 115 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,600 because that is insanely a bouncy and aggressive. 116 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:51,120 So even though it does fit in that somewhat stable and by 117 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,800 stable, I mean that shoe just throws you lateral. 118 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,400 So if you have any medial collapse, it's great. 119 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,120 If you have any lateral collapse, you're screwed. 120 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,720 Not screwed, but it's it may not work super well. 121 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:06,480 The only other one I can think of is the Hoka Rocket X2. 122 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,200 And the reason that shoe kind of came to mind is A, it's stable 123 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,680 and B, it's such a low drop. And while it's listed at 5, it 124 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,200 feels way lower than that because the four foot's kind of 125 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,800 bulbous and it feels like you're having to get up and over 126 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,400 something. So that lower drop feeling 127 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,240 really works my calves quite a bit. 128 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,560 And so I felt like I don't typically have as much soreness 129 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,760 in my hamstring and hips and it really tends to work my calves 130 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:33,240 more. So maybe that one. 131 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:38,520 I would love to suggest the ultra vanished Carbon 2. 132 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,960 I guess another one that I felt really good at with ankle 133 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,400 because of 0 drop. However, the durability has not 134 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,880 been good as that shoe barely made it through 20 miles even 135 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,480 though I love it. So for a marathon you need to go 136 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,120 farther than 20 miles. So I the Hoka Rocket X2 might be 137 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,920 one to consider. But then my other question for 138 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:58,840 them would be, do you really need a super shoe? 139 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:04,280 Would something like the Deviate Nitro 3 be an option or even 140 00:07:04,280 --> 00:07:07,440 something less aggressive than the Endorphin Pro 4, like the 141 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,040 Endorphin Speed 4, which is maybe a little bit less stiff, a 142 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,600 little bit less aggressive. So I think that's where I would, 143 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,600 I would start to consider because everybody gets really 144 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,240 excited about super shoes and, and we're no different, but you 145 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,680 have to keep asking yourselves, is this appropriate for the race 146 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:23,280 and my body? So. 147 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:25,120 Any. Of the ones you can think of. 148 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,120 I would actually disagree with you a little bit on the 149 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:32,920 Endorphins Speed 4, because I actually found that bouncier 150 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,360 than the Pro. Yeah, and, you know, we 151 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,480 literally have a whole episode on our disagreements on the Pro 152 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,000 4. But I think the Speed 4 is just 153 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:46,080 as aggressive as the Pro 4. And people should be careful 154 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,200 running in it, just like they should be careful running in any 155 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,440 super shoe that has a significant rocker and a bouncy 156 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,080 foam. Yeah, I would agree. 157 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,640 It's not at the plate is where we really that stiff. 158 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,840 This thing really just screwed. I honestly like the speed four 159 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:03,760 more than the Pro 4. Yeah my my training partner 160 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:07,240 broke 3 hours in the marathon and the speed 4. 161 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,080 She doesn't like the Pro 4 either and Speed 4 works better 162 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,120 for her. Doesn't surprise me at all. 163 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,960 Yeah. And I think this person could 164 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,920 also just consider like regular, you know, medium stack height 165 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:21,880 training shoes that are non plated. 166 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,880 Yeah. Yeah, but if you're you know, 167 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:27,880 the question is are you looking for a super shoe? 168 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:33,640 So my recommendation would be the DV8923, but I think the 169 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:35,679 Rocket X2 is probably a good option too. 170 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,080 Totally agree. All right, next one, so we have 171 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:41,960 the general gist of this question. 172 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:43,760 This is from John via e-mail, said. 173 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,920 My, my quick question is, do some shoe brands lend themselves 174 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,520 to certain pathologies, foot pathologies more than other 175 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,080 ones? And John was really nice to go 176 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:56,800 into a long, long detailed message about how he seems to 177 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:00,160 have some more trouble with certain brands versus other 178 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,440 ones. But I want to kind of bring this 179 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,360 back around to answering that primary question. 180 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:08,920 So Andrew, what do you think? Do you think that some brands 181 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,760 lend themselves to certain foot pathologies compared to others? 182 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,360 In general, no, unless you're talking about like minimalist 183 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,840 brands like Ultra where the vast majority of their shoes are 0 184 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,600 drop or zero, where all of their shoes are not only zero drop, 185 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,680 they're extremely low stack, they're extremely flexible. 186 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,160 Then those shoes, of course, are going to be more likely to 187 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:34,280 contribute to Achilles foot issues, those types of things. 188 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:38,640 But a lot of people think like, oh, I just need to find a brand 189 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,320 and stick with it. But in fact, there's so much 190 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,520 variation between the models within a brand. 191 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,480 You know, you think about comparing like the Mizuno 192 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:53,000 Rebellion Pro 2 to like the Missouri Mizuno Wave Rider 26. 193 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:55,840 They're like on two different planets. 194 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:00,360 And often, I mean, certainly for me, I love the Rebellion Pro 2, 195 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,920 but the Wave Rider just isn't my thing. 196 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,720 It's a 12 mil drop shoe. It's stiff, can't run in it 197 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,520 almost. So I hope that our listeners 198 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,600 will take away from this question that it's really not 199 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,520 about a brand, it's about the specific model within that 200 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,480 brand. Now that being said, some brands 201 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:25,760 do tend to fit a certain way. So many Saucony shoes tend to be 202 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:27,840 pretty narrow and tapered in the toe box. 203 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:32,640 And if you have a wider foot then yes almost every Saucony is 204 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:35,440 going to give you calluses or it's going to give you toe pain 205 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,880 or if you have a Mortons neuroma it's going to irritate that 206 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,600 Hoka. For me they tend to have high 207 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,480 side walls and most Hokas. The side walls tend to bother 208 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,880 me. But overall, it's really about 209 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,640 looking at the specific model. I would definitely agree because 210 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,160 this question for a little background with the additional 211 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,600 stuff John gave us is basically like every time he's tried to 212 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,800 Brooke shoe, he gets some kind of heel pain or things like 213 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:02,600 that. But then as soon as he switches 214 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,000 away from it, like he went from a Brooks Launch 10 to a pair of 215 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:11,040 1080 V 14, like those are two complete New Balance 1080V14. 216 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:12,920 Those are two completely different shoes. 217 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,880 Not only the geometry is different, the stack height is 218 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,840 different, the foam properties are going to be very different. 219 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,440 One of them is going to be, you know, kind of a more kind of 220 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,080 like not an older model, but kind of more of your like 221 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:28,080 traditional model, a little bit firmer foam, a little bit more 222 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,920 simple design in the launch. Not this a bad thing. 223 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:32,840 That can be a great thing for a lot of people that just want a 224 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,720 simple lighter shoe. The 1080 is going to be a much 225 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:39,480 softer shoe that in some people with maybe a sensitive heel, a 226 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,720 softer shoe for that person might work better, right. 227 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:49,120 But if you compare a launch 10 versus a versus another one of 228 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,240 the line, like even you know, a glycerin, the glycerin Max, like 229 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:55,440 if between the models, they're very, very different. 230 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,360 I think in the past companies were a little bit more 231 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,120 consistent, like Brooks used to be pretty like pretty strict and 232 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,880 Mizuno too used to be very strict and like all of our shoes 233 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,640 are higher drop. But now everybody's got such 234 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,000 great variants in their geometries. 235 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,520 I think that's not as easy to say unless you're talking about 236 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,040 things like general fit. Like Hoka tends to fit a little 237 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,360 bit more snug. Saucony tends to taper just a 238 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:19,760 little bit quicker at the forefoot. 239 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:24,400 Topo, Ultra tend to be much wider and lower and lower heel 240 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,560 drops. So I think if you're talking 241 00:12:26,560 --> 00:12:29,360 about those things, maybe like if you have Achilles tendon 242 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:34,400 issues, topo and ultra may not end zero may not be the best 243 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:39,640 options for you versus maybe companies like Brooks or Mizuno 244 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,360 or even in some socketing models that maybe there's a little bit 245 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,960 better 4 foot rocker that might work better for you. 246 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,040 But I'm not going to say, and I think that we're going to 247 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:48,920 hesitate to say, oh, there's certain pathologies that 248 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,600 definitely outside of the big I think pieces just because 249 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,840 there's so much variation within brands now. 250 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,080 I think one thing that we consistently try to help our 251 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:03,120 viewers and listeners understand are the components of a shoe. 252 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,000 So it would be better for you to be able to look at a given shoe 253 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,520 and say, OK, this shoe has a really early 4 foot rocker or it 254 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:16,680 has a huge heel bevel or you know, I see in the spec sheet 255 00:13:16,680 --> 00:13:20,920 that the drop is 4mm or 12mm or whatever. 256 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,400 And the more you get to know yourself as a runner, you'll 257 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,480 tend to know, OK, I do better in shoes that are on the higher end 258 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:32,840 of drop, or I do better in shoes that have an early 4 foot rocker 259 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:37,800 or I do better in shoes that have almost No 4 foot rocker, or 260 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,320 I do better in shoes with a stiff forefoot or flexible 261 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:45,120 forefoot. And I feel like depending on the 262 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,560 brand, some are really good at giving people that information 263 00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:52,280 on the website and others you basically have to see the shoe 264 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,360 in person. And even then, you know on the 265 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,720 box, it's not going to say like, oh, the drop is this the stack 266 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,160 heights this. Hopefully the person who's 267 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,840 helping you at the running store can tell you those things, but 268 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,960 in the end it is kind of you've got to try it on and see what 269 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,360 works for you. I would say to add on to that, 270 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,800 brands are changing so fast like whenever I think, oh, this shoe 271 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,400 is going to be consistent, it completely changes like a great 272 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,800 example of this the Nova blast, which we both have right? 273 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,640 We have the version 5 right now To me when I bought 274 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,400 out-of-the-box, I'm like, you know, I know there's a new foam 275 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,160 supposedly, but this looks almost exactly the same as Nova 276 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,720 S4 and it could not feel more different in my mind and I was 277 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:38,640 like this looks exactly the same like how this the the like the 278 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,320 clunky like that slappy trampoline thing completely gone 279 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,440 much smoother ride. Even though if you look at the 280 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:48,080 geometry like this is exactly the same just a foam change made 281 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,280 this feel completely different. It even fits different even 282 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,920 though you know the upper is just a little bit lighter like 283 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,080 the the instep. All this stuff is fitting 284 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,680 completely differently. So that's why I think we 285 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,040 hesitate to say yes always with this brand, more about like I 286 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,440 would look at the individual components and see what may or 287 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,560 may not be working for you because those are going to flip 288 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:10,080 in and out with how quickly things change now. 289 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,400 And we also know it's very hard to keep up with this, which is 290 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,680 why we teach, try to teach what are the individual components 291 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:17,840 that you can figure out for yourself rather than like this 292 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,560 brand does this, this brand does that because those days are. 293 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:22,920 Right. We're always getting surprised 294 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,880 by what companies come out with, so if we're surprised, the 295 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,120 everyday runner is going to have an even harder time. 296 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,320 Yeah, and I agree with you on the Nova Blast Five. 297 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,880 I've done my last four out of five runs in it and I loved the 298 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:39,000 four, but the five is even better. 299 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,920 Yeah, I did not like the four because that slappy feeling was 300 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,280 really hard on my anterior tib and that's completely gone. 301 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:46,760 Yeah. I'm like, whoa, yeah. 302 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:48,800 So the same thing every almost every easy run. 303 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:52,720 So they got it has been like did not expect to like this as much 304 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,400 this weird. Gosh, a shoe we agree on. 305 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:57,720 I know I'll have to find something to hate about. 306 00:15:57,720 --> 00:15:58,840 Yeah, I'm just. Kidding. 307 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:02,720 All right. So Jeremy sends a question in 308 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,480 from the e-mail and says, first of all, love the podcast 309 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:06,480 reviews. Thank you very much. 310 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,760 Now to the old shin splint issue again. 311 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,520 So he's 49 and had plenty of shin splint moments from the 312 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:14,200 military to improper marathon training. 313 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,200 However, they usually go away as I move on. 314 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,480 It sounds like he had just gotten back to running this year 315 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,920 and was trying to build up his base and cardiovascular. 316 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,680 He crossed trains which means his cardio is pretty good for 317 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:28,800 him. Started running and about a few 318 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,000 miles into each run, no more than two at even 10 minute pace, 319 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,880 he will typically start to get some of these symptoms in kind 320 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,840 of that anterior shin region and he's saying he's trying to 321 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,120 maintain a higher cadence. In the one seventys and eightys 322 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:47,240 he was running in a 10mm drop ASICS but still had this. 323 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,360 Took two weeks off, still showed up. 324 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,000 Had an MRI done, no structure stress fracture. 325 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,520 Had some mild inflammation change this, tried to modify 326 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,080 some change it and modified his pace. 327 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,160 Got a higher higher drop and immediately started to notice 328 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,440 some continued tenderness that did disappear after about 12 329 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,160 hours. Talks about doing a lot of 330 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,839 stretching mobility stuff. Talks about doing a lot of this 331 00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:12,680 stuff. And his big question is, could 332 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,400 the higher drop be putting stress from the calves to the 333 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,119 front of the lower shin? Do we need to consider upper 334 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,280 legs and hip stress versus lower leg and consider front of slash 335 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,839 back of the leg when choosing shoes, asking about lower drop 336 00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:26,720 shoes? So a lot of good questions in 337 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:28,960 here, but Andrew, what are kind of the first thoughts that pop 338 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,680 into your head with the situation? 339 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,320 Yeah, so a few things jump out here. 340 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:39,280 So this guy's being really guy or gal Jeremy Guy. 341 00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:43,080 He's being really cautious building up his running 342 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,160 duration. It's not like he's gone from no 343 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:46,920 running to like running 10 miles. 344 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,920 And he's been riding and cross training. 345 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:51,520 So he's got that cardio background. 346 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,640 One thing I wonder is what kind of terrain is he running on? 347 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,840 Are you running on pavement trails? 348 00:17:59,960 --> 00:18:04,000 Is it very hilly where you live? Because if you're doing, you 349 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,840 know, one to two miles, but on very hilly terrain, that could 350 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,200 potentially be creating increased stress as compared to 351 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,400 if you were just running on a flat, you know, rail trail or 352 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:18,400 whatever. It may be that he needs to not 353 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,520 only find a different shoe, but also dial back the running even 354 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:26,000 more like rather than running a mile straight, maybe do like a 355 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:30,800 walk dog progression because obviously what he's currently 356 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,720 doing is too much for his soft tissue. 357 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:38,440 So both of the shoes he's running, the ASICS was a 10 mil 358 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,040 drop. The Brooks ghost is 12. 359 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,680 So it would be worth trying a lower drop shoe because we do 360 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:51,480 know that lower drop shoes may put less stress on the shin and 361 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:55,400 the muscles of the lower leg. I would maybe not recommend 362 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:59,160 going directly to an ultra, but maybe trying like something in 363 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:04,800 the four to 8mm drop range. He says he's got strong calves. 364 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:10,000 I just, I feel like we might be missing part of the puzzle here 365 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,440 because less than two miles of running shouldn't be enough to 366 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:19,240 cause this much pain. So perhaps is some of your cross 367 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,120 training contributing to some of this pain? 368 00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:24,440 Like are you doing a lot of heavyweight lifting, squatting 369 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,200 lunges? That also could be putting 370 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:31,200 pressure on the shins. I if I was this person's 371 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,320 physical therapist, I would be diving a lot further into 372 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,200 everything he's doing, not just the running part. 373 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,160 How about your man? I would definitely agree. 374 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,480 Could you hold your shirt up a little bit? 375 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,240 So I mean, I'm, I'm very biased here, but heel bevels are 376 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,760 something that can be very helpful for reducing the stress 377 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,160 on the shin. Because your anterior tibialis 378 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,960 and a lot of your ankle dorsiflexor muscles, believe it 379 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,560 or not, are some of the really, if you are a heel striker, some 380 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,320 of the really important shock absorbing muscles when you land, 381 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:03,480 which is typically when you have some of the greatest impact 382 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,240 forces. So again, I don't because since 383 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,640 we haven't evaluated you, we don't actually know specifically 384 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,120 where on your shin you're talking about. 385 00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:14,520 There's some people that have it a lot more medial, which can be 386 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,480 like posterior tibialis, maybe a little calf when it's like 387 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:22,000 central, little lateral, that can be more bone periosteum or 388 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,560 like bone tissue that can be a little bit more the antib or 389 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,880 peroneal. So shin splint is a very catch 390 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:29,240 all term. It's kind of like low back pain. 391 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,600 It doesn't really tell you what it just tells you in the general 392 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,880 area. But that said, ASICS and Brooks 393 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:37,960 typically don't have the greatest heel bevels. 394 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,800 They tend to have a little bit more sharper, like squared off 395 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,960 heel, which you know you need to have better anterior tib 396 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,400 strength to be able to tolerate what's going to be a very quick 397 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,560 contact. So that might be something to 398 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:53,360 consider, maybe a shoe that has a better bevel. 399 00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:55,640 But I would definitely go with Andrea that I would not go 400 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,640 directly to ultra because what you don't want to do is just 401 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,440 shift that stress somewhere else because going changing 402 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,240 geometries, changing drops, things like that, it just moves 403 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,440 the forces elsewhere. So yes, I hear you have great 404 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:08,400 calves. That's awesome. 405 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,120 But do you have calves that I'm not great? 406 00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:11,560 That was really, that sounded very odd. 407 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,240 Do you have good calf strength? But I'm not, I would probably 408 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:16,840 need some quantification of what that means. 409 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,600 But you know, do you have appropriate calf strength 410 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,280 through a deeper range, which is what ultra is going to require 411 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:24,800 you to go through or a zero job shoot. 412 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,560 So you don't want to switch your problem from 1 area to another. 413 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,200 A heel level might be helpful because what I might be hearing, 414 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,240 I might be hearing incorrectly is that initial contact point is 415 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,960 maybe challenging. But I also think the run walk 416 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,400 method would be very, very helpful. 417 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,800 And also potentially, if you're still getting some irritation 418 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,800 there, talking with a dietitian and trying to figure out is 419 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,200 there anything else nutrition wise out, anything else that 420 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,760 might be influencing this? Because this as a fellow 421 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,760 clinician makes me go, there's things that we can look at, but 422 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:56,840 I want to make sure we're looking at all of you as a human 423 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,440 being. But the easiest answer is the I 424 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,040 would make sure you had something that has a good heel 425 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,200 level and maybe a more moderate drop before you consider 426 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,480 transitioning to the extremely low drop. 427 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:11,600 Agree, and I think our next T-shirt idea will be great Cavs. 428 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,560 With a little like no on the back from Mac going. 429 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,120 Please quantify that for me. Like what's? 430 00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:24,960 What's your objective name? Endurance Power. 431 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,200 I just, this is totally off topic and I got to talk to 432 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,960 Andrew about this, but I'm so as somebody who's very interested 433 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,200 in looking at like Achilles tendon and calf, one of the 434 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,680 challenges are run into and this is very geeky. 435 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,400 And so for those listening, hope you hang on for this. 436 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,920 So the single leg heel raise test is typically the gold 437 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,400 standard that most people will use to quantify strength and 438 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,560 power from the calf. So it's you have to, you know, 439 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,400 stabilize on something and you do as many single leg heel raise 440 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,320 as you can on one leg that need to be a certain consistency and 441 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,720 a certain height. And the minimum is like you need 442 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,200 to be able to do 2025 to be considered normal calf strength. 443 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,480 But the problem is that when you do that many, that's actually an 444 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,640 endurance test. And we're trying to get better 445 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,720 figuring out how can we actually measure strength. 446 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,240 So I've got a new kind of fancy dynamometer that I bought for my 447 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,320 birthday called the Tindeck, which I am has not come in yet. 448 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,720 But I'm trying to figure out ways that I can adequately 449 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,360 capture muscle power and strength for the calves without 450 00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:27,120 needing a fancy, you know, $200,000 biodecks forest tester, 451 00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:29,160 which a lot of universities will have, most clinics don't. 452 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,560 So I have a I'm going to be experimenting with a small 453 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,240 dynamometer here and I'll geek out on that pretty soon. 454 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:36,440 I was curious what you thought of that. 455 00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:40,800 Well, actually you don't need the $200,000 bio decks, you just 456 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:46,040 need like the 20 to $30,000 BTE Primus machine which I got to 457 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:50,360 use at my first outpatient clinic job, you know, way back 458 00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:52,320 in the day. And you absolutely could 459 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,480 quantify power with that. You can quantify anything you 460 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,480 want with it. Yeah, you could still want to 461 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,480 spend twenty $30,000 so. But you could. 462 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:02,640 Yeah. Yeah, it's fair. 463 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:03,960 We. Already have one. 464 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,480 We have one at George Fox. So it's just, I think it's just 465 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,680 a pain and I like hate using it because it takes so much time to 466 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,040 set up. So I just wanted something more 467 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,520 efficient. It's like I have this thing and 468 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,720 I'm so spoiled now, like I'm gonna go buy this other thing 469 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:16,600 that it's only 200 bucks. It wasn't bad. 470 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,600 So that's what it. You're like the person who has 471 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,880 access to a really high quality physical therapist and it's 472 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,240 like, but I think I'm just gonna go watch some of YouTube videos. 473 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,200 I can't judge like that at all. That takes. 474 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:32,800 Yeah, it's fine. Yeah, that's fair. 475 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,160 That's a fair call out. Well, you'll have to let us know 476 00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:38,200 what you end up. Doing with that, I've tried to 477 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,280 always find things for the clinician or the OR anybody to 478 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,080 go hey, what's what's more affordable? 479 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,480 What well how can we do? Cuz one of the things I study is 480 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,520 physical performance tests. Try to quantify like is this 481 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,800 actually a valid test to use and not so I'll have to keep people 482 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,360 updated or whether I just totally wasted my time, I should 483 00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:55,880 just use the machine that I have available. 484 00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:58,040 I'm sure you'll find something to do with it. 485 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,560 You can probably test something about Isabella's strength or 486 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,520 power with it, yeah. How long does this device last 487 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,240 before it gets broken by a 15 month old? 488 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,160 Great, one day. One day, yeah, All right. 489 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:14,560 Our next message is from Scott who says, hey everybody, long 490 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,240 time listener, first time mailbagger. 491 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,120 I've got a recovery question for you about stress fractures. 492 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,360 Long story short, 41 year old competitive male runner had an 493 00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:25,640 MRI confirmed pubic bone stress fracture involving extensive 494 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,440 stress reaction to the pubic synthesis and extending 495 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,720 symmetrically and bilaterally in the pubic Rami superior. 496 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,280 No sports hernia, thank goodness. 497 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,600 No surgeries needed. However, it's a six to eight 498 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,920 week recovery of rest fall, but at least two weeks pain free 499 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,800 before my doctor. He lets me start gradually 500 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,120 returning to running. It's a bummer, but I just wanted 501 00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:46,000 to share this with others. And and it's challenging because 502 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:47,920 running is obviously important part of his life, he says. 503 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,560 My questions for you are, have you ever seen this kind of 504 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,760 stress fraction runners? And can you talk about generally 505 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,480 how to improve pelvic strength and stability as a preventative 506 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,560 for this kind of overuse injury? Also, might there be certain 507 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,200 shoe specs, geometry technology that's evidence for reducing the 508 00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:04,320 risk of stress fractures? So Andrea, what do you think? 509 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,400 You can start wherever you want to. 510 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,120 This is a lot to unpack. Yes. 511 00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:10,400 OK. So first of all, this is a very 512 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,480 rare type of stress fracture. I think like only one to 2% of 513 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,520 stress fractures involve the pubic bones. 514 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,800 I have seen one person in my career who had one, but they 515 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,080 weren't there for that. They were seeing me for 516 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,560 something else. And that person was a runner and 517 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,200 had osteoporosis. So that might be a different 518 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:35,280 situation than Scott. When I read this question, first 519 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:40,480 of all I thought, I wonder what distances Scott runs and if he's 520 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,520 doing a lot of weight training or like explosive power 521 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,560 training. Because it would be really 522 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:51,040 unusual to get a stress fracture in your pubic synthesis or pubic 523 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,400 bone just from like marathon training, unless for some reason 524 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,880 you were doing a lot of like true speed work, like Sprint 525 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:03,640 work. So if Scott, if you were doing a 526 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,160 lot of Sprint work, like if you're a mid distance runner or 527 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,520 a sprinter or you're in the gym and you're doing a lot of like 528 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:15,000 sled pushes, plyometrics, maybe you started those and like got 529 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,520 into them really quickly, then it's possible that those 530 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,400 contributed to your stress fracture. 531 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,720 But again, we don't have all the necessary information, but that 532 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,440 would be the first thing that I would think of. 533 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,240 You did you were doing some type of explosive movement training 534 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,720 that may have contributed to this. 535 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,760 Or besides running, do you do any other sports where you're 536 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,080 moving in a more lateral direction? 537 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,480 Like do you play soccer, your hockey player? 538 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,560 Because these types of stress fractures usually involve over 539 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,040 stressing your adductor muscles, which are your inner thigh 540 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,640 muscles. Sometimes it also involves your 541 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,760 rectus abdominis because of where both of those, the rectus 542 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,600 abdominis and your adductor muscle group attaches. 543 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,840 So people who play sports that involve a lot of like fast 544 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:10,040 lateral movements are at risk of getting pubic synthesis or pubic 545 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:14,560 bone stress fractures because of that type of movement pattern. 546 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,280 So if you play any other sports besides running, which you 547 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,280 didn't mention, I would also take that under consideration as 548 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:27,560 a potential 'cause as far as your question about certain 549 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,680 shoes that have evidence for reducing the risk of stress 550 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,800 fractures, there are not. And one thing to keep in mind is 551 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,880 one of the biggest risk factors for a stress fracture is not 552 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,720 consuming enough food for your current caloric needs 553 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,040 especially. Carbohydrates for sure. 554 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,520 So I would highly recommend because of the type and how 555 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,400 expensive your stress fractures are, that you consult with a 556 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,640 registered dietitian who is certified in sports medicine, 557 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,440 ideally someone who deals with a lot of endurance athletes 558 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,560 because it's certainly possible that not getting enough 559 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,320 calories, particularly carbs, may have contributed to you 560 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,080 developing this injury. What are your thoughts, Matt? 561 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,880 I I definitely agree with all those that the more proximal 562 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,000 stress factors are really not common. 563 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,080 Now I will say that there is some evidence that those that's 564 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,160 changing and we're not exactly sure why. 565 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,840 So there has been a small increase in prevalence of pelvic 566 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:32,200 sacral and upper femoral stress fractures, which in the past has 567 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,600 always been like, this is weird. Why is that happening? 568 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,360 You know, with with certain sports that have like kind of 569 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,760 more lateral movements that really stress the pelvis. 570 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,520 That would make sense. But running, that's weird. 571 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,040 So even if it's not intentional, it'd be very, very good to make 572 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,640 sure that you take have a professional, like a true 573 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,680 dietitian, registered dietitian, take a look at what is your 574 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,680 nutrition? Is your carbohydrate intake 575 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,800 enough? We had a great conversation with 576 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,240 Rich Willie on here that really blew my mind. 577 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,000 If you have a chance, go listen to that episode. 578 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,680 It was phenomenal. He's brilliant and some really 579 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,680 cool stuff on carbohydrate and bone health. 580 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,720 But the other thing that I do have to bring up is something I 581 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,680 mentioned, and there's no evidence for this, and I want to 582 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,360 really be clear, there is no shoe that's been found to 583 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,840 specifically reduce any type of injury. 584 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,000 And it's one of the things that I used to talk to Simon Bartold 585 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,960 about is that shoes are tools, but they're not going to prevent 586 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,520 injuries. But the wrong one might actually 587 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,720 influence one. So with the here's my theory, 588 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,040 and there's no evidence behind this. 589 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,440 It's just like clinical logical thinking. 590 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,520 A lot of the Super shoes out there, a lot of the Max stack 591 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,480 height shoes, like we said, shift a lot of the workload from 592 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,680 foot and ankle up to knee and hip. 593 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,560 And so I've always wondered with people now having these super 594 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,040 shoes that are extending strides quite a bit that allowing us to 595 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,720 do more training that maybe the muscles can recover from 596 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,920 quickly, but bones take longer to recover from. 597 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,520 So making sure that you're not overtraining and if you have 598 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,920 some bone issues that your bone is actually able to keep up is 599 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,840 really important. There is stuff you can do 600 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,920 obvious for this area. I'd really encourage you to see 601 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,640 also, you know, if you have any, and this is a slightly 602 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,680 uncomfortable conversation always, but if you have any 603 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,040 bowel and bladder stuff, obviously getting screened. 604 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,600 But if you have any pelvic floor stuff, there's some really good 605 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,520 running pelvic floor PTS that can do some really cool stuff 606 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,680 for pelvic strengthening. I've got one that that works at 607 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,520 George Fox that I've just been picking her brain. 608 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,040 I'm like, hey, how do you do this? 609 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,240 And some of the concepts in training has been super cool to 610 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,360 be like, I never would have thought that would have 611 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,360 challenged the pelvic muscles in that way. 612 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,240 So it's been very cool and just give some extra kind of tools. 613 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,680 But you know, your typical things like you being able to do 614 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,240 heavy strength training, but doing it in appropriate small 615 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,000 dosages. Like we know that double limb 616 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,240 strength training tends to be better for building bone health 617 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,520 all the way up to the low back and pelvis compared to single 618 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:54,800 leg stuff because you can lift more. 619 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,000 You just don't need that much. You need to make sure you don't 620 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,480 overtrain. So like heavy double limb, a 621 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,680 deadlift, a squat can be really helpful in small dosages, but 622 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,080 you got to have a lot of recovery. 623 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,840 Core stuff is always good. Adductor strengthening, 624 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,680 abdominal strengthening, really making sure you've got that good 625 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,400 loading in eccentric is really key. 626 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,680 And you know, taking a look at frontal plane stuff like Andrea 627 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,280 mentioned, if you have a lot of instability in the frontal 628 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,120 plane, if you're someone that your pelvis drops and you got a 629 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,880 lot of motion while you're running, trying to work on some 630 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,440 strength of your glutes and adductors might be super 631 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:29,960 helpful. But make sure you don't do it so 632 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,000 aggressively that it just reaggravates this. 633 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,920 The last piece that I thought about with this is that please 634 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,800 pay attention to your physician in PT about easing back into 635 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:41,400 this. Nathan is a great person to talk 636 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,320 about because he's had a few of these that you really, we talk 637 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,280 about not being afraid of pain, but this is one of the things 638 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,200 you need to use pain as a good indicator for you because the 639 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,760 evidence is very clear that bones take a long time to heal. 640 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,680 So this is not something you want to rush back. 641 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,360 This is something you want to take the opportunity to go, what 642 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,600 things can I add to my training now that help bulletproof me for 643 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,480 later? And that might mean you need to 644 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,880 re evaluate how fast or how aggressive you get into your run 645 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:10,520 training and what other things you do to balance that out. 646 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,800 So stress fractures is one of the things that you just have to 647 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,280 be really patient with and that bones are the same way. 648 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,800 And so that's my ongoing wonder is with all these super shoes 649 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,560 and things in this technology that makes our muscles feel 650 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,960 recover better or not be as stressed, are bones responding 651 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:27,560 the same way? Are they getting left behind? 652 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,800 I think it's a good question. I have no idea if that's what 653 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:35,240 the answer is to that. Yeah, it'll take time for anyone 654 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,720 to design a good study to look at that question and then 655 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,200 compile data, write it up. It takes a while, as you know. 656 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,200 Yeah, it takes forever. I. 657 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,920 Was just. Sorry, by the way, I have this 658 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,520 my second part of my PhD that if people keep asking, hey, can I 659 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,480 see the second part of your stuff on the hopping? 660 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,040 I'm like, dude, I'm still waiting for this to get 661 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:56,400 published. Let me go back and forth for 662 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,920 seven months with the journal. And so I still have to go back 663 00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:02,200 and do the most recent round of edits before this gets 664 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,120 published. So it's seven months from when I 665 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,920 submitted it, not when I started from when I submitted to still 666 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,120 be going back and forth. And that's normal, yes. 667 00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:14,480 I would just have one more comment for Scott. 668 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:19,080 You need to be exercising under the care of APT while recovering 669 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,639 from this. Do not take our comments to be 670 00:34:21,639 --> 00:34:25,960 oh, I should just do a bunch of abdominal strength and adductor 671 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,040 strength and then I'll be good to start running when my doctor 672 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:33,760 says no, you should not start doing abdominal or adductor 673 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,840 strength until you're medically cleared to do so. 674 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,280 So you really need consistent guidance throughout this 675 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,320 process. Don't try to do it on your own. 676 00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:45,000 Yeah, get guidance there have have a professional that's 677 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,600 actually working. We're not working with you. 678 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,239 We're just hearing this some of it potentially out of contact. 679 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,159 So make sure you're working with them and listening. 680 00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:54,800 So sweet. All right, so Keith asked on 681 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:56,440 e-mail. Love the podcast. 682 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:57,800 Thanks for the nuance. She reviews. 683 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,280 Yes, we try. I've been running an ultra 684 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,520 torrents for years, mostly to the wide toe box. 685 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,680 The zero drop generally stretches my calves and be able 686 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:06,800 to make it work with sufficient strength training and massage. 687 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,880 My ankles do tend to get locked up though, which seems to 688 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:11,720 exacerbate things. Do you have any recommendations 689 00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:16,360 for other wide toe box shoes? I I'd like a good combination of 690 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:20,720 a racing shoe daily trainer with some drop and a ride toe box. 691 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,840 Wide toe box I've raced in Alpha lies and Air Flies but both have 692 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,800 been too tight in the toes. I've tried topos as a daily 693 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,760 trainer but don't like the toe sprain. 694 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,760 So Andrea, any thoughts on why toe box shoes that are not 695 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,400 necessarily zero drop? Yes, I've got the perfect answer 696 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,520 and you'll just have to search the Internet for it. 697 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,000 The New Balance Beacon version three. 698 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,640 It is the best shoe that was ever made. 699 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:51,720 It's got a wide toe box, fits a little long, 4 or 6mm drop, I 700 00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:54,320 can't remember now. She's she's joking. 701 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,280 This is the shoe that I thought, by the way, that I was the fancy 702 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,280 eBay guy could find anything. And Andrew's like, I bet you 703 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:01,640 can't find this. And she was totally right. 704 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:02,960 Because they're all gone. Because the shoes? 705 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:09,320 How old? Now, oh gosh, 2020, maybe 2019. 706 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,680 So there's, yeah. You know you're not What? 707 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,120 What's your beacon replacement? Though OK so then if you can't 708 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:20,520 find a beacon, a beacon version 3, I would say look at the 709 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:26,760 Brooks Hyperion Max version one or the Brooks Hyperion 2. 710 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:33,240 The Brooks Hyperion Max 2 is a good shoe as well, but I I've 711 00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:36,200 actually found myself running way more in the Hyperion 2 for 712 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,080 everything than the Hyperion Max 2. 713 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,360 It's more connected in the lower stack feel more connected to the 714 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,520 ground. I kind of feel like it's my 715 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,960 antidote to all of the Max stack shoes we've been testing. 716 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,560 But it's got a nice wide toe box. 717 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,880 The upper is soft and there's not a lot of overlays to 718 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:58,320 constrain your foot and it doesn't have significant 4 foot 719 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,840 rocker or toe spring at all. So that that would be my number 720 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,600 one. I think that's a great 721 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,960 recommendation. I've really the Hyperion and 722 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,720 Hyperion Max especially the twos have been surprisingly wide in 723 00:37:10,720 --> 00:37:12,880 the toe box. So I'm like, yay Brooks, this is 724 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:14,600 good. I wouldn't say they're 725 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,880 necessarily super racing shoes, although you certainly could, 726 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:19,400 but definitely like daily trainers. 727 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,400 Those are excellent. I've been really enjoying the 728 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,480 Hyperion GTS too, just because it's got a good amount of note 729 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:30,800 embedded, a good amount of room. I can't talk and still provides 730 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,560 a really nice balanced shoe that's been very, very great 731 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,240 that's not too low drop. It also doesn't feel high drop. 732 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:38,840 So those have been really, really good ones. 733 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,480 Do you think of any racing shoes or super shoes you think have a 734 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,000 wider toe box of this would work? 735 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,840 I was thinking about this and really the only one I could 736 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:50,280 think of is the Hocus yellow X1 which that shoe is like the one 737 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:54,240 rare Hoka that has no sidewalls that bother me. 738 00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:57,240 The upper is higher volume, it's soft. 739 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:03,320 It is I like a wider toe box shoe and that shoe I ran 20 740 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,640 miles in it on the treadmill and I felt great I've done several 741 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:09,800 long runs in it. I use it for a lot of workout. 742 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:14,320 So that would probably be my best wide toe box super shoe. 743 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:20,360 The New Balance SC elite version 3 is not quite as wide, but it 744 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,680 also has that like sock like upper. 745 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:27,320 So it has a little bit of give, but if you truly need something 746 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,320 wide, the CLO X1 would be my number one recommendation. 747 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,720 I would definitely agree the CLX one because it's also got a lot 748 00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:36,640 of volume to it, which be good. But I think you are right with 749 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,920 the SCLE version three which you can find on sale right now. 750 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,400 That shoe has a lot of volume. So that also might work really, 751 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,840 really well while also being low but not zero drop might be a 752 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,640 really, really good option. So might be some two things to 753 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:57,560 think about for sure. All right, so Chris asks said 754 00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,200 thanks so much for all the valuable insights you bring to 755 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:00,640 the running community. We do try. 756 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,920 My question is regarding training feet. 757 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,480 I run a variety of shoes, but most recently on the Max cushion 758 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,440 end primarily like in the Super blast twos. 759 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,160 I bought the New Balance 880 version 14 a few months back and 760 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,480 I've been forced to myself to use them for easier runs due to 761 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,560 the moderate stack height and lack aggressive rocker. 762 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,560 Is this providing any benefits to my training or running form 763 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,480 foot strength in the long run and thus I should stick with 764 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,360 them or simply just go with what's most comfortable for my 765 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,320 feet? What do you think? 766 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,640 I wish, you know, with all these questions, I wish I could ask 767 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:35,920 like 5 follow up questions but the main one would be, well what 768 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:40,880 about the 880 isn't comfortable? Is it that it's like a fit issue 769 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:45,440 or you feel like the shoe just doesn't perform as well as the 770 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,800 Super blast 2? Or is it that you love the Super 771 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,120 blast 2 because it's high stack and bouncy and you know it kind 772 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,720 of feels like it runs for you and the 880 makes you actually 773 00:39:55,720 --> 00:39:59,160 do some work yourself. So if it's like if it's a fit 774 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,440 issue, then no, don't make yourself run an issue that 775 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:07,400 doesn't fit correctly. If it's a geometry issue where 776 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,920 like you just feel like it's a little harder to run in then. 777 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,560 It depends how much harder. Like if you feel like it's hard 778 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,720 and like you're going to get an injury eventually sort of way, 779 00:40:18,720 --> 00:40:21,680 then I would say no. But if it's like the shoe just 780 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,000 makes it feel like I have to do the work to run, then there's 781 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,800 actually a benefit to that. Because of course, you and I 782 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,560 talk all the time about the study that found that having a 783 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:36,680 shoe rotation, meaning more than one pair of shoes and you know, 784 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:41,640 in concurrent use is actually beneficial for runners and can 785 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,400 potentially reduce injury rates. So one. 786 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,000 Of the few things that can. Do that. 787 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,200 Yes, May. May yes. 788 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,200 So yeah, it's actually interesting, isn't it Matt, that 789 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:55,920 there's this one study, but then there's really nothing else that 790 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,080 looked at this topic. So like we all quote, I mean 791 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:03,760 there's like one that's older, but it didn't directly look at 792 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:05,880 the tut. To be fair, though, I gotta give 793 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,240 Laurent Maslow some credit. I got to talk to him at 2:00 in 794 00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:11,960 the morning one time. We had him on. 795 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,960 To be fair, he had like, I feel like 800 participants. 796 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:17,920 That was like an extremely massive study. 797 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,240 But you are totally right that that's only been done once. 798 00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:23,320 But dude, shoe research is really hard to do. 799 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,440 But you are totally right. We are citing one study and 800 00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:26,840 that's that's a good thing to think about. 801 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,680 But it was well done. It was extremely large sample 802 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,080 size. So yeah, I totally agree with 803 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:35,000 you. By the way, the comments is 804 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,120 like, if it's a fit issue, then don't be forcing yourself to do 805 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:39,080 that. If it's something that's like 806 00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,360 this is really uncomfortable, like something hurts, don't. 807 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,920 But I think this kind of rotation is actually a really 808 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,480 good thing to go. I like my super bouncy, sexy 809 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,800 super blast, but I'm also trying to balance this out to have 810 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,600 something a little bit different training the feet. 811 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,120 I don't know if an 880 is necessarily going to do that. 812 00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:58,560 It's certainly going to make you work hard. 813 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:02,320 Mostly the F the research on training feat has typically been 814 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,560 more with like minimalist shoes and the 880 does definitely does 815 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,760 not qualify as a minimalist shoe even though it does. 816 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:09,000 It's more definitely a traditional shoe. 817 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,360 It'll make you work, but most of that research has come from like 818 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,520 walking or running in a very minimal shoe, which if you don't 819 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:17,200 do well with, I would suggest not doing. 820 00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,120 But I think the evidence on having two very different shoes 821 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,920 to switch between is very worth it because there's from the 822 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,520 study what the theory was that having two different stimuli is 823 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,600 great because it's almost like cross training because you're 824 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,280 making your body work in different ways. 825 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,040 And we aren't sure yet if the Super shoes are necessarily 826 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,720 like, even though they make you feel great, are there, are 827 00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:39,520 there? They are still loading tissues 828 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,920 in different ways, seeing some slow changes in injury types, 829 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:47,320 but not rates with their use. But if they're comfortable and 830 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:48,880 they're not causing any issues, just hard to run. 831 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,280 And I would definitely run in these just to have variety for 832 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,840 not only the reason of it might potentially reduce your injury 833 00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,640 risk, but also if you choose to switch to something that maybe 834 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,360 is maybe more similar to the A, A that you like. 835 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,240 If you have more experience in that shoe type, switching to 836 00:43:03,240 --> 00:43:05,840 that if you already have experience in it will decrease 837 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:07,800 your injury risk because instead of changing something that's 838 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,680 totally new, it's like already have experience in this. 839 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:13,280 So having two different shoe types to switch between is a 840 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,440 great idea to create not only a well-rounded bit of training, 841 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,480 but a body. It's a little bit more tolerable 842 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,760 to a variety of stimuli. So I think that's not a bad 843 00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:23,640 idea. Yes, Super Blast is way more fun 844 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,440 to run in, but just because something super fun doesn't mean 845 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,920 you know, when we talk about training, if you're, if that's 846 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:31,920 just the only thing that's comfortable, do it. 847 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,160 But if you could tolerate a variety, I would encourage you 848 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:38,480 from a longitudinal health standpoint to think about maybe 849 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:40,640 a second different pair, which sounds like you're doing. 850 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,880 So I'd encourage it all. Right, last question which I 851 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,160 will read to you because it's all about the shoes that you 852 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:50,400 love. So Robin emails based on reviews 853 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,800 and feedback from other runners. The ASICS GT2000 series lacks 854 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,000 the fun of a modern super daily trainer. 855 00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,200 I would like to ask for your recommendation on a shoe that 856 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:04,040 fits this description. I'm 173 centimeters tall, weigh 857 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,640 60 kilograms and have over pronation. 858 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,720 I have been running in the GT2000 series for many years and 859 00:44:10,720 --> 00:44:14,000 upon the recommendation of my podiatrist, have switched to the 860 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,320 Gel Kayano series for the past two to three years. 861 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,360 This recommendation came after a treadmill analysis showed that I 862 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,640 still over pronate significantly in the GT2000. 863 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,800 While while the Kyano is a solid shoe, it feels somewhat clunky 864 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:32,640 and heavy for my taste and it seems to be designed exclusively 865 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,640 for slow running. Could you suggest a modern 866 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,920 alternative that provides stability and support but also 867 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,280 offers a lighter and more responsive feel? 868 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,840 Also, I would like to know your opinion on how the GT 2013 869 00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,640 compares to the new Adrenaline 24 GTS from Brooks. 870 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,560 Which, speaking with that last question, literally just put up 871 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,960 a comparison review between those two not too long ago I 872 00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:58,120 think. Did I? 873 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,160 Yes, I think so. Yeah, that that's been up a 874 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,680 little bit. So I know people. 875 00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:08,720 So both David and I love the GT2000 and the 13 because it's 876 00:45:08,720 --> 00:45:11,360 actually like one of the lighter stability shoes. 877 00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,800 And yeah, it's not like a super shoe, but it still can is a 878 00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:15,760 little bit snappy and it's definitely lighter. 879 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:17,960 But yeah, it's not a super daily trainer. 880 00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,440 It's still a good shoe and probably one of our top 881 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,560 stability shoes of the year. Unless Bach can convince us that 882 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,520 the Brooks Beast is the new the great, this thing which he is in 883 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,240 love with at the moment. There are a few options, but 884 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:32,920 with the GT2000 you're getting into the lighter end of 885 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:34,800 stability shoes. There's not a lot of options in 886 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,520 this area. Really the only three is going 887 00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,760 to be the GT2000 which is like low 9 oz which is great, the 888 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,760 Saucony Tempest, which is the only stability shoe that has a 889 00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:47,560 super foam in it. It's not completely there. 890 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,560 And then the Hyperion GTS 2 from Brooks. 891 00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,840 Yes, the Keanu is a solid shoe. It's great, it's great walking 892 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,880 shoe, great slow running shoe, but it's not fast and it's 893 00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:58,840 definitely not light. Some that that works for some 894 00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:02,160 people, not for others. I'd always also encourage you 895 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,440 that a lot of times, even if you're wearing a stability shoe, 896 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,680 your over pornation may not change because we do know that 897 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,600 just because you have a posted or stability shoe, it may not 898 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,880 change how much you pronate. But if it can change the rate, 899 00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,160 that might help you because it's about helping you control it, 900 00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,280 not necessarily changing it. And this has been known for 901 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,840 years that you can put a orthotic in there, you can put a 902 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:24,560 stability issue and people will still roll through it. 903 00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:28,200 So be cautious with that. And I'm not saying anything 904 00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,360 against your podiatrist or your treadmill analysis, just kind of 905 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,480 giving you like, don't panic if the shoes not changing it, but 906 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:35,800 you feel better and you're more comfortable and you're reduces 907 00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,200 your strains or injuries. So there's that. 908 00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:45,400 So The Tempest 2 is definitely a fast shoe. 909 00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,000 It fits very snug. It's much even though the GT2000 910 00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:50,480 ASICS tend to fit a little bit more snug. 911 00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,040 Saucony and Andrea mentioned this earlier tends have a little 912 00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:55,920 bit more tapered toe box. This shoe fits much more narrow, 913 00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,560 but it does have a super foam in it at least partially. 914 00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:03,120 It's got geometrical stability. It's pretty aggressive. 915 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:05,200 I would actually put it as a little bit more aggressive 916 00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:10,840 stability wise than the GT2000. Be aware though that it again, 917 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:14,080 your pronation might show something different because it 918 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,520 is softer and softer shoes. You'll generally move more, but 919 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,160 there is a firmer foam in there. But it is a faster shoe. 920 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:23,520 It's got a super foam that might be the Super trainer that you're 921 00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:25,520 looking for. If you just want something 922 00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,680 lighter, the Hyperion GTS 2 is also a good option, but it is 923 00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,200 lighter. It is more of a mild stability 924 00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:35,200 issue on the other end, so you'd have to see if you could 925 00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:36,880 transition. But The Tempest is kind of the 926 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:38,720 shoe that I'm thinking most about. 927 00:47:38,720 --> 00:47:41,800 Tempest 2 for you is something to try. 928 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,520 But also don't think that the 2000 series is a, you know, a 929 00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:47,160 joke. It's a great series. 930 00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,400 It's awesome, It's lighter. And like I said, I think it's 931 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,800 one of our top stability shoes of the year, potentially for the 932 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:56,200 second year in a row. I wish I could say that the 933 00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:58,640 Adrenaline got there, but the newest Adrenaline is actually 934 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,200 heavier from my measurements than the last version. 935 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,760 It's smoother. They've done a great update. 936 00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:06,640 There's a newer foam, It's still not a super foam, but there's a 937 00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,400 better heel bevel there, which of course gets me excited. 938 00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,400 And it just transitions better and it's much more new age and 939 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,120 really great updated. But it's still not a super 940 00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,520 trainer and it's still not in the light enough realm and 941 00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,200 doesn't compete super well with. If you like lighter snap, you're 942 00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,000 faster. The G2000 series can be better. 943 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,840 If you just want a little bit more cushioned, a little bit 944 00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:29,440 more comfortable, a little bit not comfortable, a little bit 945 00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,800 more slower rolling shoe, the adrenaline is probably going to 946 00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:34,120 be better option. Would say the adrenaline 947 00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:38,360 actually sits between the GT and the Keanu, not on one side. 948 00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:42,080 So Tempest 2 is what I'm thinking about, but don't sleep 949 00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,640 on the newest GT series because it's actually pretty solid and 950 00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:48,480 even if you do pronate, as long as it's comfortable and you're 951 00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:51,440 not getting injured, that would be my encouragement. 952 00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,040 All right, Matt, I have one last follow up question on this 953 00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:58,440 question for you. What does GT stand for in 954 00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,400 GT2000? Gosh, so do you want the thing 955 00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,280 that I assumed it was, or the actual answer that we got from 956 00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,400 ASICS when we asked this? Let's go with both. 957 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:09,960 OK so I thought which I'm now blanking. 958 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:14,160 What is the so the gear like trustic? 959 00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:20,120 I'm blanking on this right now. Didn't you guys think it was 960 00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,400 guidance trustic system? Yes, yes. 961 00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:25,160 We thought it was guidance Trustic, which ASIC I don't 962 00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:29,120 think uses the trustic systems anymore, but that used to be the 963 00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:33,480 kind of like midfoot Shank that they used and they don't really 964 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:35,240 use that as much from what I understand. 965 00:49:35,240 --> 00:49:38,080 And we emailed ASICS and apparently, thank you, Mac. 966 00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,520 It stands for Gran Turismo, which David said, and I think he 967 00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,440 was joking, but it actually was inspired by that. 968 00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,320 And I still can't tell if ASICS is trolling us or not, but 969 00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,000 supposedly that's what JC stands for. 970 00:49:53,240 --> 00:49:55,800 Well, I think we'll find out after this episode, yeah. 971 00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:57,880 Yeah, Mac is like, you weren't supposed to say that aloud. 972 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,680 All right, as always, we really appreciate you following along 973 00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:04,320 and listening. And we really, the biggest thing 974 00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,520 about this is we hope that it's helpful for you and teaches you 975 00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:10,360 more about what works best for you and what may fit your feet 976 00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,080 and what things you may need to move on from. 977 00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,720 You can always find us on all the different social channels. 978 00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:17,840 So we're on Instagram, TikTok threads, all the different 979 00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:19,560 areas. LinkedIn is probably a really, 980 00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:21,240 really great site to find us because we have a lot of 981 00:50:21,240 --> 00:50:23,120 interactions with the footwear industry there and it's been 982 00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:25,960 awesome to see that you can find us obviously on YouTube. 983 00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:28,000 We've got an extensive channel with all the different kind of 984 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:29,880 stuff there and lots of different videos that'll kind of 985 00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,280 talk about different pathologies and foot pieces and things that 986 00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,040 we're always updating. And the final one is the 987 00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:36,760 website. We can find all the original 988 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:40,720 content and things that we try to put up from reviews to 989 00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:42,520 research updates and things like that. 990 00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,720 As always we appreciate all the questions and comments these 991 00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:49,200 mail back episodes come out because we are both all working 992 00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:51,480 full time and doing our best to respond to this stuff and we 993 00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,760 hope that this is a better Ave. to get this stuff out so it can 994 00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:57,560 help other people. As always, we really appreciate 995 00:50:57,560 --> 00:50:59,760 you following along. Hope this helps and hope we see 996 00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:00,200 you running.