1 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:10,760 Hello everyone, and welcome to the Doctors of Running podcast 2 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,200 where we, a group of doctors of physical therapy, discuss the 3 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,640 art and science of running and the stuff that we put on our 4 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:17,680 feet. I am here with Doctor David 5 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,160 Salas and I'm Nathan Brown. I will be hosting. 6 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:22,840 We are excited because today we're going to kind of do 7 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,840 something that we did for the first time maybe two months ago 8 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,040 or a month ago where we all took turns ranking shoes based off of 9 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:30,920 softness. We're taking that concept, 10 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,440 replying it to a different feature of shoes, which I'll 11 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,120 talk about in a second. But before we do that, David, 12 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,600 you just had your first year anniversary for your wedding or 13 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:41,400 for your marriage. Where'd you guys go? 14 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,120 What y'all do? Yeah, it was. 15 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:44,840 It was great. What's that? 16 00:00:45,160 --> 00:00:47,320 And did the pandas in the background have anything to do 17 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,040 with it? Yeah, that was that was a card. 18 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,280 Happy anniversary. They're cute. 19 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:54,520 I like. Life mates. 20 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:56,720 And then it has a couple puns in there and fun. 21 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:58,520 A nice handwritten note. Yeah. 22 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,880 That's cool then this little box here too is actually an 23 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,160 anniversary gift. It's a little pop up box that 24 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,480 has some photos over the last year in there. 25 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:08,520 Oh, that's fun. Yeah. 26 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,440 That's something Amber did for you or that you did for Amber. 27 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:16,080 Amber did for me. Yeah, that's nice of her. 28 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,680 That's cool. So that'll have its home right 29 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,000 there for right now, and then I'll might find another home for 30 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:21,680 it. We'll see. 31 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:28,280 But yeah, we went to Monterey, CA, not Mexico, and it was 32 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:29,720 great. Did some whale watching, went to 33 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,760 the Monterey Bay Aquarium, saw a Big Sur for the first time, kind 34 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,400 of did the all that stuff, Pebble Beach, you know, So it 35 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,200 was cool, yeah. Very cool. 36 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,880 Well, glad you're back. Glad that we get to now chat. 37 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,400 I know this is more fun than being out on an anniversary trip 38 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,920 is to chat with me about shoes. So what we are going to be doing 39 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:52,040 tonight is going to be taking ten different running shoes that 40 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:55,840 we have ran in over this past year, both in 2023 and 2024. 41 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,320 And we're going to be ranking them based on what we believe is 42 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,680 the, our best upper or the best one that worked for us. 43 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,960 And so before we start this whole ranking system, what we 44 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,120 want to do first is have a conversation about the purpose 45 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:13,840 of uppers and how we think about how quality and upper is. 46 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,680 So David, when we think about uppers, what are they for? 47 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,080 Why are they on shoes? What do we do in there? 48 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:21,560 Yeah. So the upper essentially is 49 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:25,160 usually a mesh or woven knit material that goes over the top 50 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:28,560 of the platform. It's goal, I mean it, all of 51 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,880 them should do it, is keep your foot on the platform and keep it 52 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:33,920 from shifting around or doing anything funny. 53 00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:37,560 That's probably the most simple way that I can say that, but it 54 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:39,680 basically keeps your foot on there so that nothing else 55 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:40,720 happens. Perfect. 56 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,480 And I think what we've found is that within our team and then 57 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,360 obviously extend extended beyond to patients that we've worked 58 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,440 with and then any other runner friends that we know, what upper 59 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,320 works best for you is going to be super unique because of your 60 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:54,960 foot shape. It's going to depend on the 61 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,040 climate that you're in. Some are thicker, some are 62 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:58,840 thinner. So you, you know, for me, in the 63 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,720 winter, having a super thin upper is like the worst thing. 64 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,960 And then in the summer having a really thick upper is the worst 65 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:06,640 thing. So it really depends on what you 66 00:03:06,640 --> 00:03:09,400 end up using it for. And so we're going to talk about 67 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,320 some of those things. A lot of the shoes that we 68 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:15,280 picked today to rank are kind of in that trainer category. 69 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,440 So just kind of keeping that in mind that these aren't specific 70 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,240 for racing or anything like that. 71 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:23,880 These are going to be more trainer like, but there's a lot 72 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,400 of individual individuality, you know, depending on what sort of 73 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,200 conditions you may have. We've, we have a, an article out 74 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,160 that Matt wrote on Haglund deformities, which is a Bony 75 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,080 overgrowth in the heel. If you have something like that, 76 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,440 the how the heel counter is constructed, like the heel 77 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,320 counter, meaning the part that he's either rigid or soft around 78 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,600 the heel, that's going to matter a little bit more, more than for 79 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,360 someone who doesn't have irritability back there. 80 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,720 So just know that we understand that there's a lot of 81 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,400 individuality when it comes to this and we are ranking them 82 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,440 based on what have worked best for us as people. 83 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:58,040 We're going to talk about each one as we go along. 84 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:02,640 So what we're going to do, and I'm going to tell you all the 10 85 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,840 shoes in no particular order, so that if you've ran in them, you 86 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,960 can pause this episode and you can write down all of them that 87 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:11,480 we're going to be reviewing. And you could do your own 88 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,000 ranking system and see how much you line up with us. 89 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,120 Also, David and I don't know each other's lists, so it's 90 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:20,440 going to be a surprise. The 10 shoes that we got, we 91 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,680 have the try NUSA from ASICS, the newest one we have the New 92 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:29,840 Balance Bellows. We have super blast 2 from ASICS 93 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:35,840 Boston 12 from Adidas Topo spectre 2 skyward X from Hoka, 94 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:40,880 the Mach 6 from hoka, the triumph 22 and the cloud monster 95 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,120 hyper. I think I just listed 10 shoes. 96 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:47,000 So if you want to pause this, you can rewind that and get them 97 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:48,800 all written down. And then we're going to go 98 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,120 forward and we are going to be doing our ranking system. 99 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,040 Also before we start our ranking, just a reminder that 100 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:55,800 we've been able to partner with Scratch. 101 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,880 And so they are sponsoring this episode. 102 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,480 And if, if you want 25% off of your first order from scratch 103 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,320 and they have a bunch of hydration, but stuff they, they 104 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,520 have cookbooks, they've got different fuel for your runs. 105 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:09,400 You have the cookbook, right? I do have the cookbook. 106 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,240 Yeah, sweet. That's I something I want to 107 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:13,320 pick up. I think it would be fun. 108 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,880 They've got hydration flasks and things like that. 109 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:18,400 Feel free to pop over to the website. 110 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,600 You can get 25% off using Dor 24. 111 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:22,760 All right. You ready, David? 112 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:24,080 Let's do it. All right. 113 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,520 So the way that we're going to do this is we have ranked our 10 114 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:33,400 in order from least comfortable or least best performing to best 115 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,840 performing for ourselves. We've also broken them down into 116 00:05:36,840 --> 00:05:40,240 four different tiers and the four tiers that we have is the 117 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,800 4th tier is the lowest tier and that's these need some work. 118 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,040 These are uppers that didn't work for us and they would need 119 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:47,840 to be tweaked to be able to work well for us. 120 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,960 Tier 3 is there this is going to need some work, but there's a 121 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,040 couple elements that make this a promising upper, but it's it 122 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,240 also needs some work. Tier 2 is like this is a good 123 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,040 upper. There's a lot that I would like 124 00:05:58,040 --> 00:05:59,360 here. I would continue to run in the 125 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,520 shoe, but if they tweaked this, it would be great. 126 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:04,040 And then tier one are those great uppers that just worked 127 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,840 really well for us. So let's start with our Tier 4. 128 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:09,480 David, how many do you have in your Tier 4? 129 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,920 I have 3. You have three. 130 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:13,480 OK, I have. I have two. 131 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:16,920 So why don't you start? You can give your 10-9 and eight 132 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,400 for your Tier 4. Yeah, I also just want to 133 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,920 preface this too, like this is no way has any indication on the 134 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:28,400 quality of the shoe or the right of the shoe or my experience in 135 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:29,600 it. So just because it's on the 136 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,720 bottom tier there, I might still actually like running in the 137 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:34,920 shoe for certain reasons or uses. 138 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,360 It's just strictly talking about upper and fit in regards to 139 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:44,400 myself. So #10 for me, and I think this 140 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:48,680 does kind of fall in that pref like that preface I just said, I 141 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,560 actually said the Saucony Triumph 22. 142 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:54,920 I live in California. It's very warm here. 143 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,840 It's a very plush upper. There's a lot on it and it's a 144 00:06:58,840 --> 00:07:01,680 little bit wide in the heel, midfoot, forefoot, a lot of 145 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,320 space. And my foot isn't that big like 146 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,320 as far as volume goes. And so my foot does kind of move 147 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,320 around in it a little bit. Those that need a little bit 148 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:12,240 more volume in space, I'm sure they love it. 149 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,240 I mean, it's actually a pretty cozy material that goes around 150 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:16,600 there. And I feel like the material 151 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,000 itself doesn't like overly stretch or isn't crazy unstable 152 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,040 or anything. I just think for my own needs 153 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,960 and my own foot, it just kind of misses the mark there. 154 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,840 So I mean, if they were designing specifically for me, 155 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,640 they can make it a little bit thinner, kind of like lock down, 156 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:36,400 like that volume down just a little bit, and then kind of to 157 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:37,800 increase that heel Med foot security. 158 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,000 But again, I think the masses, that's going to be a shoe that I 159 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:42,760 think that works for a lot of people. 160 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:47,200 So but that's it's just not really my choice for my premium 161 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:54,800 trainer at this point #9 again, another shoe I like a lot, but 162 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,600 it's just something about it. And it's the Hoka Mach 6. 163 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,880 It's a very snug, low volume shoe. 164 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,960 I like it for the track, but it's just like outside of the 165 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:05,840 track use. I have a hard time finding 166 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,480 myself using that for 10 plus miles for like a long tempo run 167 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,200 or long runs. Like sure, I could do it, but I 168 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,160 think there's just other shoes out there that are more 169 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:15,880 comfortable that are in the same category. 170 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:18,720 And so just a little bit more volume. 171 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:20,360 I mean, the security on it's really good. 172 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,640 I think just giving you just a little bit more space, but it 173 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:25,760 locks you down really good. And if you're trying to corner 174 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,520 hard and run fast, like it can do it for sure. 175 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,120 And then the other one is #8 the forward experience. 176 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,120 And that probably could be #9 from Ultra. 177 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,799 And that again, it doesn't fit that bad, but I have that foot 178 00:08:39,799 --> 00:08:41,799 that kind of works with all these shoes, I feel like. 179 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:43,799 Yeah, so you've got the magic foot. 180 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,720 I'm like splitting hairs here. You know, to, to, to make this 181 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:52,000 list, but I found the heel fit on it to be a little funny, like 182 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,640 the padding on the inside of the heel collar and it kind of just 183 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,000 had ever so slightly a little heel rise and then the mid foot 184 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,160 was pretty tight. And then the forefoot I didn't 185 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,400 find too bad. I I know it's a little bit more 186 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,360 slim than other ultras that are out there. 187 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:06,960 It's not quite as volume as were spacious, but I didn't really 188 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,040 have any issues in the forefoot. They're more so just kind of an 189 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:15,320 odd heel fit. And the midfoot, once it was on, 190 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,680 it was I guess kind of fine because the tongue kind of 191 00:09:17,680 --> 00:09:19,360 really holds you in. So that volume is a little bit 192 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:23,200 lower there too. But yeah, that would probably be 193 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,120 my my Tier 4 shoes. It's just cleaning up those 194 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:29,320 uppers a little bit. But again, all fine and dandy 195 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,600 trainers. I think honestly our whole list 196 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,600 here is all pretty good shoes. It's a good that's true. 197 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:39,080 And I really liked the caveat you made about how the upper 198 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,600 rating doesn't equate to a shoe rating. 199 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,520 Like there are shoes that are lower on my list that I enjoy 200 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:49,040 running in more than some that are higher on the list for this. 201 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,680 And that was the other thing I had a hard time with it making 202 00:09:51,680 --> 00:09:55,240 this list was that sometimes the upper, if it's not paired with 203 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,040 the right midsole, it's more problematic. 204 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,360 But like we'll talk about and that will come become apparent 205 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,600 with some of the shoes that we end up talking about. 206 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,840 But if you've got something super snug on a super plush 207 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:10,400 thing that doesn't line up or if it's too loose on a very high 208 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,600 stack plush thing and you're not stable on that platform, that 209 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,200 makes it more problematic. So there's some matching between 210 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,440 midsole and upper that needs to happen. 211 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,920 And we're trying to parse that out just from like a comfort and 212 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,480 fit perspective. That said, I actually do have 213 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:25,480 three. I misread. 214 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:30,240 I have 3 in my Tier 4 as well. My number 10 is the New Balance 215 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,520 Balos. Are you saying Balos or Balos? 216 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:37,240 I've been saying balos. Balos all right, so this shoe I 217 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,960 kind of mentioned this at our last episode, but I just found 218 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,720 that this shoe fits short and there's just a lot of tapering 219 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,680 towards the the the forefoot. And when I say tapering, I mean 220 00:10:48,680 --> 00:10:52,320 like it starts what like kind of a little bit more voluminous and 221 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,480 then it just like shuts down on your toes. 222 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,320 So when I when I put it on, I can just feel the pressure kind 223 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,520 of where this kind of thicker plastic is around the forefoot 224 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:04,920 that's like a toe guard. I can feel that on my toes 225 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,840 immediately when I go in. So I think it's just a just a 226 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,000 little bit too low volume tapers a little bit too much. 227 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,400 You can even see it tapers on the outsides as well on the 228 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,440 lateral medial side. So because of that, that's 229 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:18,520 that's a big part. The other thing that we haven't 230 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:20,760 talked about a while on the pod, but I'm also kind of a tongue 231 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,840 snob. I am a tongue snob when it 232 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:24,640 comes. To shoes. 233 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,120 True tongue snob. I, I've never been a fan of 234 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,200 tongues that are super stretchy and that's kind of like how they 235 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,760 function. And this is a very stretchy 236 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,480 upper that's gusseted or sorry, a stretchy tongue that's 237 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:37,520 gusseted. It just doesn't have the right 238 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:41,120 amount of padding in there for me to think it's comfortable. 239 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,440 And so I just think that this upper is just a little bit odd 240 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,000 and it's more padded in the heel than it is up in the forefoot. 241 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,800 Did you just drop something? I just tried to slingshot a pen 242 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:52,480 with the tongue. Did it work? 243 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:57,920 Semi they got off the shoe but it didn't go very far. 244 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,040 That's the fact that you can even try that tells you how 245 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:03,120 stretchy it is. Yeah. 246 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,160 So I just feel like there was some mismatch of like the 247 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:10,360 padding of the heel and then how snug it is and how thin and non 248 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,080 stretchy the upper is in the forefoot. 249 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,880 I think that if this was a stretcher material that tapering 250 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,440 wouldn't matter as much, but because it's not stretchy, that 251 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,720 was problematic. So that was my number 10 #9 was 252 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:22,160 one that you had in yours as well. 253 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,920 I can't remember if yours was 9:00 or 8:00 but it's the Hoka 254 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:29,000 Mach 6 which is for like moderate distances. 255 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,560 Has been one of my favorite shoes to just train in this year 256 00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:33,400 from a midsole. But the upper is just 257 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,320 unreasonably like snug it it didn't need to be that way in 258 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,120 the forefoot. I don't really know why they 259 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,920 went so low volume, but I don't know if it's obvious on here, 260 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,800 but there's just not a lot of width and then it's very low 261 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:49,600 volume. And again, just like the the 262 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:53,200 Balos, it's not stretchy. It doesn't have an accommodating 263 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:54,920 fit. So what's there is there and if 264 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,360 your foots not going to fit in it, it's not going to be able to 265 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,040 accommodate and stretch out to it. 266 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:04,160 What I did like about this shoe is the heel padding and the 267 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,280 amount of it. It's just a very mild heel 268 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,320 padding on a semi rigid heel counter and it's got that nice 269 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,360 curve away from the heel. So I think that the heel 270 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,560 construction is good and then it's just too snug in the front. 271 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,920 And because it's too snug, it actually limits how much I can 272 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:18,040 use it. Like you said, I don't want to 273 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,680 take this on anything for me longer than like 45 minutes. 274 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,800 And then the third one, which you also had in your category 275 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:30,320 was the for experience forward. And it was honestly pretty 276 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,520 similar to the mock in a lot of ways where but the tightness 277 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:35,800 wasn't all the way through the toes. 278 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,280 The tightness was just around my metatarsal. 279 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,000 So right by the end of those laces, the furthest part of the 280 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,880 laces that was just snug and it didn't open up for me during any 281 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:46,400 of the running that I did in the shoe. 282 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:48,480 And I had the exact same feeling. 283 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,760 They did this in a couple of their experienced shoes where 284 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,760 they put these two like bulbs. I'll show it for YouTube folks. 285 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,400 You can see there's like this little bulbous of padding and 286 00:13:57,680 --> 00:14:02,080 they do that on both sides. That just you kind of the idea, 287 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,120 I think, is to grab onto the calcaneus, the heel bone, and 288 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,400 like hold it down. But it just felt a little 289 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,720 uncomfortable. I just knew it was there. 290 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,280 It just is like, yeah, it's like I didn't really need that. 291 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,680 And it just was, it was, I'd rather not know that the shoe is 292 00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:19,720 on. And I felt like that made me 293 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,360 aware that I was wearing the shoe. 294 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,440 So I think that there's potential here, though Ultra. 295 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,080 I think that if they can just like open things back up, like I 296 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,280 was putting on other ultra shoes today and I put on the Escalante 297 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:31,600 and that thing fits like a glove. 298 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,960 That thing was amazing. And so I think that if they 299 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,880 could adopt some of that back into this shoe, I think it would 300 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:39,920 be better. Again, I don't think it's that 301 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:44,120 bad of a fit little bit more performance oriented and it's 302 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,000 it's thin, but again, it's snug and it doesn't. 303 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:48,680 This one doesn't have stretch either. 304 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:52,040 So if you want it for training, you want that accommodating fit. 305 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,640 This one's not stretchy. All right, Tier 3, what you got? 306 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:02,840 Yeah, Tier 3, so #7 I have the New Balance Baylos, so I've had 307 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,280 a kind of a similar experience. I'm not quite as much of A 308 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,960 tongue snob, so I can kind of look past some of those things, 309 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:16,000 but it didn't feel, how do I say this like congruent with the 310 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,360 rest of the shoe? Like it just didn't feel like 311 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,960 you have a very, very soft compliant foam under foot there. 312 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,400 This is like one of the softest things I've run in period. 313 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:31,200 And I feel like when you look at the fit on it, it's like it's 314 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,200 pretty wide, like through the mid foot and then it kind of 315 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,360 tapers off into that fore foot like you said. 316 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,200 And for me, the fore foot wasn't too much of an issue. 317 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,320 But it's more so the reason why it's in this category is because 318 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,760 like in a static fit, it wasn't actually too bad for me. 319 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:46,440 I actually thought it was kind of nice. 320 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:51,080 But it's how it plays with its platform under it. 321 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,600 And when you have a shoe that soft and it's like that wide in 322 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,360 the mid foot, I can like feel my foot crashing inwards. 323 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,400 And I know we're trying to do this strictly off of the upper, 324 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,760 but I feel like that does have play in this experience. 325 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,640 And I think just locking up that midfoot a little bit more would 326 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,560 be like way that would improve the shoe quite a bit. 327 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,280 And then I think, yeah, you probably could increase the 328 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:15,000 volume there a little bit in the forefoot. 329 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,560 But I in the tongue, I feel like that's kind of a hit and miss. 330 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,240 It does make it, I see what they tried to do because it does 331 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,040 decrease that volume and just keep your foot on that platform 332 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:30,760 a little better in comparison to some of the other shoes out 333 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:31,880 there. Like it just literally just like 334 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:33,520 holds you down. Even though it's stretchy, it's 335 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:37,200 still like it's pretty low set, but that's not enough because 336 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,600 that is stretchy. So it's like it holds you down 337 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,760 there, but then it stretches up and out and then the mid foot 338 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,040 like medially or laterally you have some give there. 339 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,280 So I feel like if you kind of tune that up a little bit, the 340 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,760 shoe could be a lot better. I won't say that it was a miss 341 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:53,360 for me. I think the platform kind of was 342 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:54,440 a miss for me. We're not talking about the 343 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,840 shoe, the ride of the shoe, but this is one of those shoes where 344 00:16:57,840 --> 00:16:59,800 I wanted to really like it and I just couldn't. 345 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:05,040 But the upper actually wasn't too bad for me. 346 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:06,560 But I think there's some things that we could work on. 347 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,040 It's funny, I feel like David and I, you, you and I had a very 348 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,839 similar experience from a ride perspective with the Balos 349 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:15,520 because we're both going through like foot stuff. 350 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,079 So the fact that it was such a soft platform didn't match with 351 00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:23,560 trying to like rehab. Foot unhappiness for sure. 352 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:25,920 What else do you have in this tier? 353 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,920 Yeah, so the other one I have in this tier, number six is going 354 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,800 to be the Hoka Skyward X. And so a good upper. 355 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,040 It's honestly, again, this is one of those things where I'm 356 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,160 kind of splitting hairs here, but again, I'm in California. 357 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,320 It's a pretty thick, kind of warm upper. 358 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:44,200 Granted, it's a premium trainer, but the big thing for me on this 359 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,800 one is the instep. It's just like the volume 360 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,000 through the mid foot and through that heel there is just like 361 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,600 pretty low. It's like I have to like really 362 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:52,440 loosen the laces to get my foot in the shoe. 363 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,360 And I'm like, bro, this is fitting pretty close to a mock. 364 00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:57,480 Like what are we, What are we doing? 365 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:58,960 What, what are we trying to accomplish here? 366 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,600 Yeah, yeah. But the forefoot, the width is 367 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:03,160 pretty good. The volumes pretty good in 368 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:04,720 there. Ironically, that's usually the 369 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:06,360 thing that we kind of nag about a little bit. 370 00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:08,640 But there I actually felt it was pretty good. 371 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:13,560 It was more so the midfoot and kind of that heel fit, but and 372 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:15,720 then the sidewall integration, like everything there I thought 373 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,120 was pretty good. I know that's a pretty 374 00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:20,600 polarizing topic on this shoe. I think amongst the group, I 375 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,720 didn't really have any issues with the sidewalls, but I know 376 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,680 some people did. But I think just making the 377 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,480 midfoot just have a little bit more room and maybe thinning out 378 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:33,040 that upper just a little bit. But it's again, it's not bad. 379 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,480 I actually enjoy the Skyward X like it's a good shoe. 380 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,840 So just because it's in Tier 3 doesn't mean it's a bad shoe. 381 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,000 All right. I have two shoes in my Tier 3 as 382 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,280 well. The number seven is the Skyward 383 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,280 X as well. And I think what I'll highlight 384 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,840 is from a difference perspective between the Mach 6, which was in 385 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,640 the lower tier in this shoe, as you mentioned, David, the four 386 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:55,480 foot does have a little bit more volume. 387 00:18:55,480 --> 00:19:00,120 It was not so snug and this material has a little bit of 388 00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:03,880 stretch to it in comparison to the Mach 6, which is which is a 389 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,440 big deal. But then you know the heel 390 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,320 padding. I think they still do really 391 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,920 well in both of these shoes. I think they pad the semi rigid 392 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,040 counter and there's a little bit firmer of a counter in the 393 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,800 skyward X as well, but they pad it nicely. 394 00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:19,360 And then the the tongue is much more padded. 395 00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:23,440 But I actually appreciated, maybe unlike you a little bit, I 396 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,400 appreciated the snugness through the midfoot because of how high 397 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,800 and soft this this platform is like I, I want something that's 398 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:32,560 not going to let me fall off the shoe. 399 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,320 So I, I appreciated some of that tightness, but the reason for me 400 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:42,880 that it, I still want a little bit more 4 foot room for like a 401 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,000 really slow. Well, slow is maybe not the 402 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:47,320 right word. People might come at me and say 403 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,800 I do workouts in that shoe. That's great for me. 404 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,800 I use this for like my recovery and like slow stuff. 405 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,200 So I want even more room in that 4 foot just to open it up a 406 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,520 little bit more. And that was honestly the thing 407 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,680 that pulled us back. But I like the comfort of the 408 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,040 material. For me it was not too hot and I 409 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,920 like the amount of padding that it has through through the 410 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,680 whole. System so I actually like a lot 411 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,520 of this upper again, the biggest thing is just the kind of the 412 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:15,800 Hoka fit. I would love hoka to just open 413 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,720 their four foot volume a little bit and I think if they did that 414 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:19,920 it would it would be really good. 415 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:25,200 The other one for me in this category was the Boston 12 from 416 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:30,040 Adidas, which actually I expected to be lower on my list 417 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,400 because there's a couple things about this shoe that I think 418 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:38,440 need a lot of work. But the upper fit is actually 419 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,240 really good size wise, like the volume in the forefoot. 420 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,840 It took a little bit to open up because it's mildly stretchy, 421 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,120 doesn't have a ton, but it opened up after the first like 422 00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:50,640 10 miles or so and then if it was really nice through the 423 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,680 forefoot. What I don't like about this is 424 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,360 the lacing system. It's really awkward to try to 425 00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:58,760 adjust how much lockdown you have. 426 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,600 And so if you're somebody who loosens your laces a lot, it 427 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,000 just takes a little extra work. The other thing that I just 428 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,560 don't understand why they did it this way is there's there's 429 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,080 absolutely no padding through this heel except a couple ridges 430 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,160 and those like bulbous things like they had in the forward 431 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,280 experience from Ultra except this you didn't feel these as 432 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,560 much, but there's just no padding through this heel and I 433 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,320 felt like they could have added a little bit of comfort through 434 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,120 the heel. And I think that's if they did 435 00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:27,080 that, this would be a good upper if they just adjusted this 436 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,320 lacing system added a little bit of padding. 437 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,960 I think that you could get good performance out of this upper 438 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,280 still because it still is a performance trainer. 439 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:36,800 You can do a bunch of workouts in it. 440 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,640 And this is a shoe that I put these on before tonight and I 441 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,600 forgot how good it feels under foot, like like it's just a 442 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,600 really, really nice platform. So I might actually have to take 443 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,280 these out for a run again because they felt so good. 444 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,680 But in terms of the upper, I just wanted to see them if they 445 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,880 change the stuff in the heel and they refine that for the next 446 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,920 version and even just go to a more simplistic lacing system, 447 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,960 This one would bump up a tier or two for me. 448 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,800 Nice, was that that was tier 3. That's my tier 3 for me all. 449 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,520 Right. Got two tiers left, so now we're 450 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,360 in the like. These are genuinely for us, 451 00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:14,600 these have been good uppers. We're no longer like verging on 452 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,680 that. I wish there was a couple extra 453 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,400 things. These are These are now good, 454 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,880 good, not great uppers. Yeah. 455 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,240 So we're still wishing for a couple of things. 456 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,720 Yeah, I suppose we're just being nitpicky, but at this point, 457 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:33,680 dead means dead. I'll go first this time. 458 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:39,600 I'll go first this time. So my #5 in this list is the on 459 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,040 cloud Monster Hyper, and this is a super good upper. 460 00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:46,120 And for me, as I've been walking through the stuff with my foot 461 00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:49,200 over the last year, 4 foot volume, if you've I've been 462 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,120 harping on it way too much, matters a lot. 463 00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:54,160 So this has a lot of volume in the four foot. 464 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,480 It fits really, really well and gives me room for those longer 465 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,400 runs. I think that it like fits the 466 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,080 purpose really well where I want. 467 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,520 The only thing that I want to see changed is the like 468 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,080 bagginess of the midfoot. I've got to really lace down the 469 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,360 the upper through the laces and my my laces come pretty close 470 00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:14,280 together when I have to tie it down, which is not typical for 471 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:15,880 me. I think they could take a good 472 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,360 amount of material out of the midfoot area and you'd have 473 00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:21,640 plenty still. So that's the only adjustment. 474 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,840 I I think that they've got a really nice thin tongue with 475 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,880 some flat laces over the tops. There's no irritation there. 476 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,200 It's just the right amount of padding for me on a semi rigid 477 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:32,280 heel. You're going to find out. 478 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,400 That's what I like. And so it's it's a really great, 479 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,240 really great fit. I think it just needs to be 480 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,440 snugged up a little bit in the midfoot. 481 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,600 The other one in this category is probably one of the simplest 482 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,440 uppers and I it's like just on the verge of tier one for me. 483 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,520 It's the try NUSA and it's just a like an engineered mesh upper. 484 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:56,320 It's got a couple layers to it and I I love this upper. 485 00:23:56,360 --> 00:23:58,400 I think it fits great. It's one piece. 486 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,080 There's nothing fancy. The lacing is pretty simple. 487 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,360 It just was a little bit short and tapered at the end on the 488 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,520 just on the lateral side out here. 489 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,360 It just tapers down so I could feel it a little bit on my my 490 00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:12,360 pinky toe. Otherwise it's great. 491 00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:15,120 Like this is one of my favorite, one of my favorite uppers and 492 00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:18,960 fits, but it's just that little bit of tapering that put it in 493 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,200 its tier two spot instead of Tier 1. 494 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,800 Nice. All right, so my Tier 2, I got 3 495 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,960 shoes in it. We're looking at #5 Adidas 496 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,440 Boston 12. I don't have mine on me right 497 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,520 now. But the heel thing was one thing 498 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:32,720 that I had thought about as well. 499 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,560 It's a pretty narrow taper. Like it's basically like the 500 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,880 same heel as Takumi Sen. It's like super, like you just 501 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,000 tapered hard and there's just nothing really in there. 502 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,200 So I think I'd like to see that filled in on just a little bit 503 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,360 more and maybe make the midfoot just a tad bit wider too, 504 00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:49,120 because I think does lock down pretty hard on the midfoot and 505 00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:53,040 it can be pretty narrow for a lot of people. 4 foot foot was 506 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:54,560 the fit in the four foot was great. 507 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,720 I thought that was like one of the best 4 foot, you know, fits 508 00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,880 out there. And the material, lightweight, 509 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:02,680 breathable, you know, holds its structure really well. 510 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,160 You can use it across a huge variety of uses. 511 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,480 So very, very happy. You want to know something? 512 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,000 Yeah. It's it when I, when I think 513 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:15,040 about you and I try to think about what upper makes me 514 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,160 remember David, it's you talking about the cellar mesh upper of 515 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,440 like the RC, something like do you remember that? 516 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,800 From RC one and two. Yeah, yeah. 517 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,000 You're like that cellar mesh offer. 518 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,600 I love it. Is the RC still around the RC4? 519 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,800 I don't know if did we we didn't get that one. 520 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,320 No, yes. I'm not sure where they're at 521 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,680 with that, but. Yeah, huh. 522 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,160 Yeah. You're right anyway, yeah. 523 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,840 Yeah, those like thin kind of like almost like synthetic key 524 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:47,720 uppers. I don't mind them. 525 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,440 A lot of people don't really like, I mean they're not the 526 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,280 most plush, but they really like lock down and hold well, but 527 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:59,400 anyways, yeah, so Boston 12 #5 #4 this one might be a shock for 528 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:05,120 a lot of people, but ASIC super blast two so great upper. 529 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,400 It's really nice. It's just the one thing I wish 530 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,840 is the head just said you need a bit more width in the forefoot 531 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:12,040 there. It kind of tapers off a little 532 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,880 bit as it gets up to the front and so I can feel the sides of 533 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,520 my feet a little bit in there. But other than that, it's not 534 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,560 like problematic. I can take this 20 miles, you 535 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:24,360 know, and it'd be fine. But it's nice, good fit on the 536 00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:28,960 heel, good padding, lockdowns, great tongues, good mesh upper 537 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,920 is great volume in the forefoot. Great. 538 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,000 Again, very, very good upper. It's just really just the 539 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,320 forefoot there. That's really the only thing and 540 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,680 so that's the only thing keeping it from being tier one there. 541 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:44,840 Really enjoyed the shoe. And then my #3 which might come 542 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,600 a little bit of a surprise is the on Cloud Monster Hyper. 543 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,760 So very similar thought process between us. 544 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,240 I really like the four foot volume. 545 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,000 I like the heel fit, but I did feel like it was a little bit 546 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,640 crinkly, like on the tongue and in the mid foot there. 547 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,480 You can kind of even just see it like resting from like how many 548 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,480 times I've laced it down, how it has an indentation in there. 549 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,720 It does kind of pull that material in. 550 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,080 And then there's a little bit of reinforcement, this little strip 551 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,040 for the viewers that's reinforced. 552 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,560 So like that kind of goes down and acts like a little side 553 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,240 wall, which is nice, you know, immediately and laterally. 554 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,080 But that also contributes to some of that crinkling through 555 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,240 the midfoot as well. So I think if they just clean 556 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,960 that up a little bit, that would be a, that'd be a tier 1S tier 557 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,160 upper, but it's not quite, not quite there. 558 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,120 It's just missing the mark. So #3 on my list there. 559 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:36,760 Well, let's do our Tier 1 shoes then. 560 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,680 These are the ones that for right now, we wouldn't see 561 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,280 anything that would need to change for us to just make this 562 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:48,400 our, our shoe of choice. And and so for me #3 is it's 563 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,640 funny, this is like in my top tier and was in your bottom 564 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,040 tier, which just shows the individuality, but it's the 565 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:58,360 triumph. 22, yeah, it's just literally usage for me, yes, 566 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,120 yeah. Which is exactly why I love it 567 00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:03,640 so. For me, I'm in Wisconsin, it I 568 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,840 run at 5:00 AM and we still get a little bit cooler temperatures 569 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,760 in the morning, like a hot day, which we complain about the 570 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,240 heat. Sorry, David, when it's at like 571 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:17,240 61 in the morning and especially sorry BJ and like everyone else 572 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,640 who's in heat Bach anyway. But what I what I really like 573 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,520 about this upper is the form matches the function. 574 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,400 So like it's meant to be this kind of like plush premium daily 575 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,560 trainer. It's got a plush premium upper 576 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,080 that fits me really well. There's a lot of volume through 577 00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:37,560 the forefoot and the midfoot, but not too loose where it, it 578 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,720 can lock down well enough through the midfoot. 579 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,840 I like the amount of padding, like I don't like too much 580 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,240 padding. And even for a premium shoe, it 581 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,760 doesn't have too much for me either in the heel or the 582 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,160 forefoot. And so it, it fits well. 583 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,080 I'm not taking this shoe going fast at all. 584 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,880 So the, the upper matches really well for what I'm doing. 585 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:58,440 So that's that's my number three. 586 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,000 My number 2 is the ASIC super blast. 587 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,640 And for if it's funny you you I know what one of the shoes 588 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,400 that's in your top tier and for a reason that you didn't put the 589 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,240 Super blast in your top tier is why I did put in the top tier is 590 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,360 that it had just enough 4 foot volume for me and for my foot 591 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,720 and the upper compared to the. Well, it was the the width. 592 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,920 The width OK, so that volume was fine, it was width for you. 593 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:29,280 OK, so I I didn't have a width problem and compared to the 594 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,760 first version of the shoe, they made it a slightly more stretchy 595 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,200 material. It's super airy, feels nice in 596 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,680 the summer and again, form follows function. 597 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,200 And they made it light enough where it can pick up the pace as 598 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,000 well with, you know, the bouncy foam that you have under foot. 599 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,880 The tongue has the perfect amount of padding for me. 600 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,480 It's thin, but it's got just a little bit there so that you can 601 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,720 lace it down nice and snug. It's got flat laces and so I'm a 602 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,400 big fan of the upper for this shoe. 603 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:57,840 I I don't need anything different. 604 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,080 I think that the the previous version was a little too 605 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,560 plasticky and then this just made it feel a little bit more 606 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,480 organic and just enough to to stretch it out and give you 607 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,400 enough space because I think that the first version was a 608 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,440 little bit snug And then my number one is from topo topo 609 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,240 spectre too. So it's funny like this would be 610 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:17,960 one of those shoes they like. This is definitely not my 611 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,160 favorite shoe on the table like I I don't get along with the 612 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,440 rocker geometry, the posterior bevels not and the posterior 613 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,000 flare is too much for me. So it doesn't feel great 614 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,440 running, but the upper is awesome. 615 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:34,080 So everything from the volume, how much breathability there is 616 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,680 the the you know, it's a pretty flexible heel and it's padded 617 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,440 really well. They always have an I mean topo 618 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,080 awesome has an awesome midfoot lockdown, so it locks in really 619 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,480 well. So I've got no beef with this 620 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,640 upper at all. I think it's great and it's nice 621 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,880 and light, but it's it's robust like it's not going to just rip 622 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:54,920 through. So it's got it's got some 623 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:56,840 rigidity to it in a way that's going to make it last. 624 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,960 So this is my number one and it's a great fit. 625 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:01,600 What do you got in your top tier? 626 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,080 Well, we know it's two. But how about all two left? 627 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:11,960 Yeah, yeah, so #2 coming in is the Topo Spectre 2, all the same 628 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,120 things you said. It's a good fit. 629 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,960 I mean Topo, I feel like nails their uppers pretty consistently 630 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,160 just as a company. Like they always have a really 631 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,400 good mid foot fit. They always have an anatomic toe 632 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,680 box a lot of with good volume, but not so much that you're 633 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,200 swimming around heel lockdowns good. 634 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,400 Even though it's flexible, it still holds you well. 635 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,080 I never feel like it's swimming around and then like the padding 636 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:37,560 on the tongue. You kind of said it about the 637 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,280 Super blast, but it's like thin, but it's not so thin that like 638 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,280 that. You feel the laces that much 639 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:44,680 like it's like padding pretty well. 640 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,720 Like it's it's just like that thin padding just enough to kind 641 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,560 of keep the biting but still be lightweight. 642 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:55,480 So Spectre 2 solid great on the fit and upper. 643 00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:00,120 The other one is kind of like what I was hoping the Mach 6 644 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,560 would fit like is the. Async. 645 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,520 Used to try so it's again, lightweight, very simple, very 646 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,280 breathable, very comfortable. It's it's like it's a for how 647 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:12,640 lightweight and breathable it is. 648 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,720 The material has no business having this kind of like soft 649 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,760 plushness feel to it. So true. 650 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:19,920 Yeah. So it's just really comfortable. 651 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,160 And then it has kind of a little bit of a lower volume, but it's 652 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,200 still it's good. It has just enough in the 653 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,280 forefoot where it doesn't give me any irritation that I I see 654 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,720 what you mean about the forefoot here, but what kind of like what 655 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,920 we talked about earlier with the mock not having stretch, this 656 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,520 has just a little bit of stretch to it. 657 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,280 So it just gives me that glove sensation on that forefoot, even 658 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,760 though it probably could be a tiny bit wider, like it just 659 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,600 fits my foot well and then it holds down well through the 660 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,800 midfoot. And even though there's a tiny 661 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,640 bit of stretch, it holds its like structure really well, like 662 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,920 turns everything. So padded heel, heel counter, I 663 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:58,520 don't know, holds your heel pretty well. 664 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,840 Like I just feel like it holds my foot onto that platform and 665 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,120 it's for how light and breathable it is. 666 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,760 It is very comfortable at the same time. 667 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,240 So it feels almost like a plush upper even though it isn't. 668 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,640 And so it's just very simple, very breathable, lightweight, 669 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:19,760 keeps your foot on there, does its job and I really like it for 670 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:20,080 that. I. 671 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:25,320 Think it's another great example of where you have a shoe that 672 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,560 doesn't have a super high platform, so you have a little 673 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,240 bit of ability to just have a very simple upper because it's 674 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,040 not super high and soft, it's a little bit firmer. 675 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,640 And so it match it matched really well and that I think 676 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,520 that's been one of my reflections on this whole 677 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,000 exercise was trying to piece out the upper from the the whole 678 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,680 shoe. And I think that is almost a 679 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,880 potential problem in shoe design where if a, a company decides to 680 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,480 just throw on a standard upper onto a shoe without considering 681 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,280 what the needs are from the platform that's underneath, you 682 00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:00,440 could miss some important features that could secure the 683 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,320 foot to the platform in a more optimal way based on the type of 684 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,800 upper. We also, I don't know if people 685 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,560 notice this, but we didn't go through like what type of exact 686 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,080 material that each upper is. David, you want to talk about 687 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,480 why we we chose not to do that and what we're even talking 688 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,320 about? There's just so much different 689 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,520 nomenclature for the same difference out there. 690 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,400 I feel like you look at it's like, OK, so you can break it 691 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,719 down as simple as is it mesh? Is it knit? 692 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,760 But then you look in there, it's like, is it a woven? 693 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,800 It is it an engineer knit? Is it an engineered mesh? 694 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,480 Is it a woven mesh? Is it a jacquard mesh, double 695 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,800 jacquard mesh? Is it textile mesh like 696 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,480 synthetic mesh? Like, I feel like there's just 697 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,719 so many different names and you can read these like tech sheets, 698 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,440 you can read the marketing pamphlets, you can look at all 699 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:48,760 of it. And I feel like it doesn't 700 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:50,960 really matter what the material is. 701 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,880 Per Southeast, we're just looking at it more from a 702 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,040 comfort and usage standpoint on our feet. 703 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,200 Like I feel like it's not quite as cut and clear as like looking 704 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,640 at midsole foams where it's like, OK, you can kind of know 705 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,280 what to expect from a Piba based midsole and from an Eva and from 706 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,600 ATPU. Yeah, like you kind of have a 707 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,640 general idea, but I mean, just because it says whatever 708 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,960 engineered mesh, it's like, OK, they're all engineered mesh is 709 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:14,920 tight. Thanks. 710 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,720 Like you don't really know they that they, it's not all the 711 00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:19,320 same. Yeah. 712 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,560 And I think the one thing that I'd like to learn from somebody 713 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,040 who knows more about the materials of uppers is what 714 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,280 they've learned about durability of different types of of these 715 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,520 materials. Like have they found that some 716 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,960 in their lab testing? And obviously we have real world 717 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,560 testing of the uppers, But unfortunately, I think what's 718 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,720 hard for us is that we're usually not getting 305 hundred, 719 00:35:40,720 --> 00:35:43,560 600 miles on a pair. So we don't get to see that that 720 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,720 upper breakdown. Like I know my sister, every 721 00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:48,160 time she runs in a shoe, the upper is actually the first 722 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,280 thing to go because her big toe pushes through the end of her 723 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,840 shoe like every single time. So we we usually don't take 724 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,080 shoes that far. That's just a reality of the the 725 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,040 game that we're in of testing a lot of shoes. 726 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,840 But I think that's something I'd be interested to learn from 727 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,760 somebody who who knows more on that topic. 728 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,760 All right, well, there are our top fitting shoes, top uppers 729 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,200 from 12:50 of this selection of shoes. 730 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:19,200 We'd love to hear where you all agree, where you disagree, what 731 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,160 your lists are. And so if you want to post your 732 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,200 list below, even if you haven't tested all the shoes, you'd talk 733 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,840 about what shoe fits best for you or what you look for in an 734 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:30,960 upper. We would love to hear about it. 735 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,880 So thank you for joining for this episode of the Doctor 736 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:35,840 Burning podcast. You can always be following 737 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:41,040 along with us on Instagram, Facebook X or do we do XI don't 738 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,800 even know or threads or whatever it is. 739 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:45,640 You can follow it as at doctors of running. 740 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,000 And then if you would be so kind to take some time to leave a 741 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,760 review for this podcast. It helps us continue to grow. 742 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,200 So thanks for joining us and we'll talk to you all next time.