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Hello, everybody, and welcome to
the Doctors of Running podcast, 

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where we, a group of doctors of 
physical therapy, discuss the 

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art and science of running and 
the stuff that we put on our 

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feet. 
Today at the round table we have

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the founder of Doctors of 
Running, Dr. Matthew Klein, as 

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well as Dr. David Salas and 
myself. 

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I'm Nathan Brown, and we are 
gonna have a fun conversation 

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today where we're gonna be 
talking about a specific 

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category of shoes that has been 
seeing more shoes added to its 

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quiver lately and we're gonna 
talk about the warrant of this 

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category and if it exists who it
may be beneficial for. 

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And then we're going to take 
some of these shoes that we 

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think fit into the category and 
put them in a bracket style and 

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break it down and we'll see 
which one comes out on top, 

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mainly to be able to have a 
conversation about who these 

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shoes may work best for. 
But before we do that, we want 

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to always thank our powering 
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Running. 
They really gear us up for 

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everything that we need as the 
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They have a great fall line 
collection that kind of keeps 

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you warm. 
They've got long sleeve stuff. 

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They got tights. 
They got pants. 

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They have everything you might 
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So if you want to check out 
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go to runinrabbit .com and you 
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get 10% off your first order in 
the month of October. 

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Matt, what you got? 
I want to give a shout-out. 

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I had last earlier this year, I 
bought two of the Cocoon 2.0. 

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It is fantastic. 
It just hit 38 degrees, which I 

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know for most of the US is not 
that bad. 

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For Oregon, that's it's a little
early for this, so it's 

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definitely a little bit chilly. 
And then especially running 

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through some of the smaller 
ravines and part up in the hills

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here it gets even lower. 
So we'll say that kept me very 

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warm this morning. 
I did not like that shock of 

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sudden like, hey, we're sitting 
like 70s and then down to 38. 

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I'm like, oh. 
So Cocoon, definitely definitely

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want to give a shout out to. 
Very comfortable. 

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It's got the thing, like, where 
you got, you can like put the 

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face over. 
It's really nice too, like keeps

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your neck warm. 
Yeah, has a built-in balaclava. 

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Yeah, it's nice. 
Balaclava. 

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Balaclava. 
I'll give a quick shout out too.

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I ran in the Low Tide yesterday.
It's been like 90 plus degrees 

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here the last two weeks with 
humidity, and it finally just 

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started coming down a couple 
days ago, which is nice. 

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But went into the mountains 
yesterday, you know, did 11 

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miles with like 3,300 feet of 
vert and plenty of sweating in 

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the Low Tide, and it did great. 
So it's not just a lifestyle, 

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you know, kind of button down. 
Like it can definitely breathe 

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and perform, and I had no 
chafing or anything. 

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So that was, well, I guess I did
run a half marathon with that 

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shirt as well. 
So yeah. 

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Never mind. 
I forgot I already did have a 

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longer effort in it prior to 
that, but that was in the trails

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where I was sweating adequately 
and it was fine. 

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Sweet. 
Okay, so we are gonna first 

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start with our in-for-testing 
segment where we talk about 

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different shoes and gear that we
have that we've been getting 

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miles on. 
Matt, what have you been testing

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lately? 
So a couple. 

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Something that's been out there,
and I just need to finish 

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writing the review because I've 
been too busy, but still have 

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the Altra Vanish Tempo too, 
which I I'm really still 

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enjoying. 
I know the fit is a little bit 

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short for most of the team. 
I haven't had too much of a 

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problem. 
It's it's been really 

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surprising. 
When you first put it on, you're

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like, okay. 
And then doing workouts, this 

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shoe can move. 
I always end up running a lot 

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faster than I expect to. 
And this shoe, great for tempo 

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threshold. 
It's actually done surprisingly 

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well for some interval stuff. 
To me, it actually feels like it

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can turn over a little bit 
better than, and I think I've 

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said this before, than the 
Vanish Carbon 3, but the Vanish 

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Carbon does way better, like, 
long marathon type effort kind 

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of stuff. 
So I almost almost see this as 

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like a Speed Pro kind of 
variation just because it's got,

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you know, Pebax plate from 
Saucony, thank you. 

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Pebax plate here, plenty of PEBA
in the midsole, really nice and 

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bouncy. 
Vanish Carbon 3 has got the TPU 

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plus the carbon plate. 
So a little stiffer, a little 

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more efficient over longer 
efforts, but this has been a 

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really fun, snappy shoe that I 
just enjoyed. 

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And I've still done almost every
long run the last couple weeks 

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in it, done tons of workouts and
really enjoyed it. 

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Outsole is holding up very well.
Just that the sizing is going to

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be the big challenge for a lot 
of people. 

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But luckily it hasn't bugged me 
too much. 

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But I do feel that lower volume 
on the forefoot. 

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Does the foam feel like new age 
performance shoe, or like does 

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it feel like hey, this is like 
the type of foams that were used

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maybe three or four years ago? 
No, it it feels like an 

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interesting combination of the 
two of them when I when I 

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initially put it on it kind of 
felt like ah that's a little bit

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old and then as it broke in and 
I got more bounce I'm like oh 

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this is newer like this feels 
like a newer variation of PEBA 

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it if I if I had guessed I 
wouldn't have known what it was,

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to be honest. 
It doesn't feel like the older 

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version of PEBA. 
It felt feels like something 

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newer, but it's not ATPU. 
So yeah, I hope that answers 

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that. 
Other other shoes I've got big 

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thank you to Casey McCombs from 
Puma. 

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Finally had the Forever Nitro 3.
I have from Puma have 30 miles 

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on it already. 
Been running pretty much 

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constantly in it since I got on 
my foot. 

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Durability has been okay. 
Very nice. 

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Upper is the biggest update. 
It's way smoother, although I 

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did get a little bit of chafing 
on the medial side of my big toe

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in my long run this morning, but
much smoother. 

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Not nearly as light as version 
one, but it's still a solid 

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shoe, and it's gonna make it's 
really good. 

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It's gonna make my top five best
stability shoes of the year. 

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So great. 
And then final thing, probably, 

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and I I appreciate Hoka sending 
this, but Arahi 9, probably one 

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of the least responsive midsoles
this year. 

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I think it's great for walking. 
It it I that was my first 

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experience in it, was rolling 
around in it, very, very 

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comfortable for walking. 
Running, there is just almost no

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resiliency to the foam. 
It's not soft. 

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I found it firm, but I can this 
is a great walking shoe. 

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So I'm kind of like still on the
early miles. 

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I got about 15 in it, and still 
trying to figure it out, hoping 

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it breaks in. 
Upper is definitely better. 

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Where there's a little bit more 
open in the forefoot, but the 

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midsole just feels very firm. 
And I think that's because they 

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worked really hard to add a new 
outsole material and that firm 

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things up. 
But yeah, still trying to figure

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this one out. 
Great. 

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I've got not many, so I'll just 
I'll go first. 

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So we got a few shoes in from a 
shoe that doesn't or a company 

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that doesn't necessarily get 
word for running shoes from 

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Lems. 
They're kind of the one of these

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companies that really wants to 
prioritize large toe box, they 

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market themselves like run the 
way you're supposed to, or 

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something like that. 
Kind of this concept of quote 

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unquote natural running. 
And so they oh wait. 

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Move and move. 
Move free, run wild. 

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So yeah, they wanna kind of lean
into that sort of philosophy. 

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So I I've really thought that 
this shoe so they've two shoes 

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that they sent us, one's a 
little bit higher stack, one is 

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lower stack, but both of them 
are not you know super high 

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stack. 
They're they're pretty moderate.

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And the the foam is a 
significantly firmer type of a 

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midsole foam. 
The what I like the most 

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actually is standing and like 
spending time on my feet in this

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shoe. 
The the insert is made of like a

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cork material on the top, which 
the actual meat of it is a foam.

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I'll try to pull it out here so 
you can see for those watching 

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like it's a corky top which is 
just comfortable but it is a 

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foam when you when you flip it 
over but it's been super 

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comfortable to to be on my feet 
I wouldn't necessarily call this

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a running shoe for me. 
You're gonna wanna want like 

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honestly the thing that came 
into mind was like Altra of 2017

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or something was kind of like 
the the vibe of the midsole that

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it was giving. 
And if you want that and that's 

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kind of your preference, I think
that it could be a legitimate 

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option for you. 
Andrea said this, so I'll just 

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speak on her behalf for a 
second. 

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She's like, I could she really 
likes it, her first impressions,

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and she's like, this is a shoe 
that I would take for a short 

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shuffle. 
And be pretty comfortable. 

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But the toe box is awesome. 
When it comes to fit, this 

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shoe's amazing. 
And again, with all this rubber 

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and everything that's going on 
there, I'd definitely see it 

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more for you know wanting to 
just be on my feet all day more 

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than treating it as a running 
shoe. 

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The other one that I wanted to 
give a shout out for that we 

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have not that's been out for a 
long time. 

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But it's the Altra Experience 
Wild 3.0, or 3 Plus. 

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Thank you. 
I spent five days in the 

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Boundary Waters and did 
everything in this shoe. 

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All the portaging, all the 
hiking, all the canoeing. 

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Not that you need shoes to 
canoe, but it dried out quickly,

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you know, like you get wet with 
that kind of stuff. 

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So huge fan. 
The foam, the P35 is just on 

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that slightly softer end. 
So it felt really cushioned the 

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whole time. 
But I spent five straight days 

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in this shoe and it was awesome.
So I I highly recommend this 

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shoe from a hiking perspective. 
It's one that I would definitely

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feel comfortable and trust doing
like longer hiking efforts in 

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and just being on my feet all 
day. 

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That's all I got though. 
Yeah. 

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And then I got a few things too.
I'll just say with the Vanish 

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Tempo. 
I think it's interesting to hear

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your experience, Matt, because I
honestly had a very different 

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experience in this shoe. 
I think I sent you guys a 

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message immediately after my 
first run in it, and I was like,

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this is gonna sound really mean,
and I don't mean it quite this 

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mean, but like it felt kind of 
flat and uninspiring to me. 

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But it wasn't like bad. 
Like it like the rocker 

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profile's fine, the outsole 
traction's good, the upper fit 

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is not bad. 
It's a little short and low, 

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right? 
Like we talked about that. 

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It just felt fine. 
Like I was like, it's fine. 

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Like I don't it's it wasn't 
anything that like made me like,

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wow, I gotta run in this more. 
But I did do a couple strides in

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it and like it did fine. 
Like it wasn't like it could 

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pick up the pace and it was 
okay, but it was just like it 

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kind of reminded me a little bit
of like a Hoka Mach or like a 

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shoe where it's just like a 
lightweight versatile trainer, 

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but the foam isn't like anything
crazy. 

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At least to me. 
Like that's the way that it had 

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felt and came off. 
So like versatility is a 

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possibility, but it just didn't 
really scream like take me fast 

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to me. 
But that's just how it felt for 

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me. 
I w I will say I feel like I'm 

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having completely different 
experiences than a lot of the 

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rest of the team, and I'm like, 
Am I just the weird outlier? 

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Like, I don't know if it's just 
matching my mechanics or what 

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the deal is, but yeah. 
Yeah, it could just be loading 

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profile too, like the way the 
geometry and how you're 

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interacting with the foam and I 
don't know. 

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But yeah, for me, I just I just 
didn't get that much out of it. 

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I was kind of surprised. 
I thought I'd get a little bit 

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more out of it. 
But yeah, I'll try to make it 

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quick. 
I got a few things. 

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We did talk about the Lems 
already. 

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So Zen Speed Plus is the one 
that has a little bit more 

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stack. 
Again, a little bit more stack 

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if you're listening. 
Not a whole lot of stack. 

222
00:11:32,597 --> 00:11:34,480
We're talking like in the 
mid-20s, maybe. 

223
00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,630
It's like twenty-two millimeters
or something like that, I think 

224
00:11:37,630 --> 00:11:41,079
at its highest between the two. 
And then the Zen Speed Light, 

225
00:11:41,079 --> 00:11:43,679
which is basically the plus but 
a little bit lighter. 

226
00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:46,998
They also have different widths 
on these shoes that we didn't 

227
00:11:46,998 --> 00:11:49,784
talk about. 
They have a medium and a wide, 

228
00:11:49,784 --> 00:11:53,216
and the wide is actually the way
the Lems shoes traditionally 

229
00:11:53,216 --> 00:11:53,840
fit. 
Right. 

230
00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:55,280
That's what I have. 
Yeah. 

231
00:11:55,279 --> 00:11:59,192
So I actually went with the 
medium, which is kind of be kind

232
00:11:59,192 --> 00:12:01,600
of more consistent with like the
normal shoe. 

233
00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,291
A little bit more narrow through
the heel and midfoot with a 

234
00:12:05,291 --> 00:12:07,440
wider toe box, like they're 
going for. 

235
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,052
And it fits me well. 
I I like the upper, I think 

236
00:12:11,052 --> 00:12:13,759
everything that Nate says I 
agree with so far. 

237
00:12:13,759 --> 00:12:18,159
I haven't run in them yet, but 
standing and walking, they're 

238
00:12:18,159 --> 00:12:20,159
excellent. 
Definitely a firmer feel. 

239
00:12:20,159 --> 00:12:24,639
I mean the foam itself is firmer
and then like the cork insole is

240
00:12:24,639 --> 00:12:26,879
also firm and the platform is 
stiff. 

241
00:12:26,879 --> 00:12:29,471
And then you have a full contact
outsole. 

242
00:12:29,471 --> 00:12:32,063
Yep. 
So I mean it is a stiff 

243
00:12:32,063 --> 00:12:34,880
platform, but it's not bad. 
Like it's it's protective enough

244
00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,000
to stand all day in, I think. 
So if it's protective enough for

245
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,880
that, like you could probably 
take it out for a nice little 

246
00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,520
shuffle, like Andrea was saying.
But I don't know. 

247
00:12:43,519 --> 00:12:46,159
I didn't really find it to be 
anything like that I've 

248
00:12:46,159 --> 00:12:49,279
necessarily and like, yeah, let 
me go take this out for a run. 

249
00:12:49,759 --> 00:12:53,690
I will take it out for a run to 
see how it does. 

250
00:12:53,690 --> 00:12:55,200
But yeah. 
Other ones here. 

251
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,588
So we'll have some quick some 
evaluations out here for the 

252
00:12:58,588 --> 00:13:01,052
reviews soon. 
But we have the Swift Echis 

253
00:13:01,052 --> 00:13:03,595
here. 
So I wrote that yesterday. 

254
00:13:03,595 --> 00:13:06,720
Lightweight, versatile trainer, 
it's like 7.2 ounces. 

255
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:11,904
It's an ETPU beaded midsole, 
40/32 in terms of 

256
00:13:11,904 --> 00:13:14,390
specifications. 
So honestly, spec wise, it's 

257
00:13:14,390 --> 00:13:17,440
actually decently competitive 
and it retails at 140. 

258
00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:21,556
The one thing with this one, 
it's like there is a rocker 

259
00:13:21,556 --> 00:13:25,432
geometry, but it's so gradual 
and it's like it just feels like

260
00:13:25,432 --> 00:13:28,544
it has a flatter profile to it. 
And the foam itself is 

261
00:13:28,544 --> 00:13:31,324
definitely a little bit firmer 
riding, but it does have a 

262
00:13:31,324 --> 00:13:33,840
bounce to it. 
It is carbon-plated as well. 

263
00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:38,112
They wanted this to be kind of 
like a workout shoe slash 

264
00:13:38,112 --> 00:13:42,266
trainer, like and racer and or 
racer, rather, if you want it to

265
00:13:42,266 --> 00:13:43,832
be. 
And they're really working to 

266
00:13:43,832 --> 00:13:45,920
try and make shoes like 
affordable for people. 

267
00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:50,936
So I thought it was good. 
I don't I think the it 

268
00:13:50,936 --> 00:13:53,440
definitely also very low fitting
volume. 

269
00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,792
Like low volume, snug fit, 
narrow width. 

270
00:13:55,792 --> 00:13:59,824
So like you definitely it's 
almost mandatory to go up a half

271
00:13:59,824 --> 00:14:02,800
size. 
And you gotta like a snug fit. 

272
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,544
But I just feel like it just you
were mentioning with the Altra 

273
00:14:06,544 --> 00:14:10,311
shoe earlier, like does it feel 
like a shoe that's up to speed 

274
00:14:10,311 --> 00:14:12,639
now versus something three to 
four years ago. 

275
00:14:12,639 --> 00:14:16,047
And I feel like this feels like 
something that would have been 

276
00:14:16,047 --> 00:14:18,319
pretty good about three or four 
years ago. 

277
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:22,090
You know, and in just today's 
market, I don't I just like some

278
00:14:22,090 --> 00:14:24,484
other shoes better. 
But one forty feels fair, you 

279
00:14:24,484 --> 00:14:27,522
know, and it's it's in the low 
seven ounces and it's a 

280
00:14:27,522 --> 00:14:29,040
responsive shoe and it's not 
bad. 

281
00:14:29,039 --> 00:14:32,112
I just I don't know that I would
choose it personally over some 

282
00:14:32,112 --> 00:14:35,188
of the other things that are out
around that similar price point.

283
00:14:35,188 --> 00:14:38,744
But it it's a good shoe. 
What do you know about that 

284
00:14:38,744 --> 00:14:40,509
company? 
I don't know anything about 

285
00:14:40,509 --> 00:14:41,097
them. 
Swift. 

286
00:14:41,097 --> 00:14:43,148
Did you say it's Swift? 
Swift, yes. 

287
00:14:43,148 --> 00:14:45,432
They're a newer company. 
They're trying to design 

288
00:14:45,432 --> 00:14:48,209
high-performance running shoes 
for a variety of things like I 

289
00:14:48,209 --> 00:14:51,474
have the Horos, and I just did a
quick review on that, which is 

290
00:14:51,474 --> 00:14:52,800
their kind of like multi-sport 
shoe. 

291
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,737
It's supposed to be able to 
handle like some faster running,

292
00:14:55,737 --> 00:14:58,460
HYROX, CrossFit kind of things, 
do a little bit of everything 

293
00:14:58,460 --> 00:15:00,394
kind of stuff. 
And I had a very similar 

294
00:15:00,394 --> 00:15:02,320
experience where good shoe, ride
seems to be good. 

295
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:06,616
Just upper's really tapered, so 
I did get some blistering on my 

296
00:15:06,616 --> 00:15:09,120
forefoot, like, lateral toes. 
Lower volume fit. 

297
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,951
It's definitely, like, it's got 
the specs to be competitive 

298
00:15:11,951 --> 00:15:14,348
where it is. 
It just, yeah, still feels like 

299
00:15:14,348 --> 00:15:17,692
they have a little bit to go, 
but it's the first their first 

300
00:15:17,692 --> 00:15:19,968
outing of these shoes. 
And I think that if they're 

301
00:15:19,968 --> 00:15:22,464
starting there and they can pick
things up, I think there is 

302
00:15:22,464 --> 00:15:24,740
potential there. 
But they're trying to make more 

303
00:15:24,740 --> 00:15:27,840
affordable running shoes hitting
that one twenty, one forty mark.

304
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,800
Where are they out of? 
They're on the East Coast 

305
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:32,592
somewhere. 
Okay. 

306
00:15:32,592 --> 00:15:35,360
Yeah, I'm not exactly sure. 
Yeah, yeah. 

307
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,112
They're on the East Coast, 
Colorado, you know? 

308
00:15:38,112 --> 00:15:39,827
Never go. 
Just like Topo. 

309
00:15:39,827 --> 00:15:43,950
Just like Topo Athletic. 
The other one too also wrote the

310
00:15:43,950 --> 00:15:45,630
review. 
So I did write the review for 

311
00:15:45,630 --> 00:15:47,860
that. 
So that'll be releasing whenever

312
00:15:47,860 --> 00:15:51,900
on our release calendar. 
And then same thing with the 

313
00:15:51,900 --> 00:15:55,360
Teva Hurricane Trail Setter GTX.
So also wrote the review for 

314
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,595
this. 
I just took this out on that 

315
00:15:57,595 --> 00:16:00,720
same trail run I was talking 
about earlier in the recording. 

316
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,680
This is definitely a shoe where 
it's a little bit more of a 

317
00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,437
lofty type of shoe. 
This is not a fast shoe by any 

318
00:16:07,437 --> 00:16:09,040
means, but it's not trying to 
be. 

319
00:16:09,039 --> 00:16:12,604
This is meant to be kind of like
standing, walking, trail 

320
00:16:12,604 --> 00:16:15,520
running, hiking, like all day 
wear type of stuff. 

321
00:16:15,519 --> 00:16:19,229
So what you were describing for 
the Experience Wild 3 Plus, I 

322
00:16:19,229 --> 00:16:22,319
feel like this does check those 
boxes very, very well. 

323
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,968
Definitely something I don't 
mind having on my feet. 

324
00:16:24,968 --> 00:16:26,960
I've worn it in the clinic all 
day. 

325
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:31,365
I've now taken it, you know, 
through a couple trail runs with

326
00:16:31,365 --> 00:16:33,538
changing elevation, 
technicality, just long outings,

327
00:16:33,538 --> 00:16:36,918
at least for me. 
Like and it's done it's done 

328
00:16:36,918 --> 00:16:39,279
very pleasant. 
I actually really liked it. 

329
00:16:39,279 --> 00:16:42,159
The Hypercomp midsole, it's like
a blend of like a super critical

330
00:16:42,159 --> 00:16:45,891
foam and an EVA, just to kind of
give it like a little bit of 

331
00:16:45,891 --> 00:16:48,240
structure to it still, but have 
like some compliance. 

332
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,358
The four millimeter lugs stick 
pretty well. 

333
00:16:50,358 --> 00:16:53,680
I didn't really have any issues.
The base is decently wide. 

334
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:57,280
The only thing with this one, it
is Gore-Tex-lined. 

335
00:16:57,279 --> 00:17:00,920
And because of that, I think the
fit does come down a little bit 

336
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,120
more snug. 
It's a little more snug than I 

337
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:04,799
probably would like it in the 
forefoot. 

338
00:17:04,799 --> 00:17:08,269
I did get a little bit of 
rubbing over my fifth toe on 

339
00:17:08,269 --> 00:17:10,989
this one after the run. 
Not enough to blister or 

340
00:17:10,989 --> 00:17:13,212
anything, just something 
noticeable where I'm like, I'd 

341
00:17:13,212 --> 00:17:16,079
like just a little more volume 
there if possible. 

342
00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:19,420
But honestly, I mean Teva is 
knocking it out of the park with

343
00:17:19,420 --> 00:17:20,960
some of these debut trail 
models. 

344
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,359
Like the Trail Peak is very, 
very good. 

345
00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,672
And that one's a little bit more
speedy, like you can definitely 

346
00:17:26,672 --> 00:17:28,880
race a sub ultra trail race in 
that. 

347
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,597
And then this is more just like 
again, like if you're going out 

348
00:17:31,597 --> 00:17:34,170
for just a long day. 
So whether it be easy trail 

349
00:17:34,170 --> 00:17:37,732
running and or hiking or just 
day use, like and I feel like it

350
00:17:37,732 --> 00:17:39,986
did great, you know, for that 
purpose. 

351
00:17:39,986 --> 00:17:44,174
Just a nice lofty shoe. 
And then I just got one other 

352
00:17:44,174 --> 00:17:47,223
one besides the Arahi 9. 
I agree with what Klein was 

353
00:17:47,223 --> 00:17:49,090
saying. 
It just feels kind of like a 

354
00:17:49,090 --> 00:17:51,440
nice, slow, steady, stability 
shoe, which is what it is. 

355
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,376
I feel like and I I I like it 
for that. 

356
00:17:54,376 --> 00:17:57,253
I think it's nice. 
I think I'm kind of disappointed

357
00:17:57,253 --> 00:18:00,143
because the Arahi in previous 
versions has been like not 

358
00:18:00,143 --> 00:18:03,235
obviously not eight, but it's 
been that lighter stability shoe

359
00:18:03,235 --> 00:18:06,545
that was like max stack height. 
And the original versions, I 

360
00:18:06,545 --> 00:18:09,672
don't know if you remember, like
people ran some pretty fast 

361
00:18:09,672 --> 00:18:12,453
marathons in that shoe, and like
it could turn over, you know, 

362
00:18:12,453 --> 00:18:16,143
and that was just what we had. 
But yeah, it just kind of feels 

363
00:18:16,143 --> 00:18:20,121
I'd be curious to see too like 
if we took those exact same 

364
00:18:20,121 --> 00:18:23,424
pairs and then tried them now. 
Because like you said, it's like

365
00:18:23,424 --> 00:18:25,920
what we had, right? 
Like compared to what we had, 

366
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,560
it's like you had these super 
minimal flat racers that like 

367
00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,079
were hard to handle for 26, and 
then you have this like thick 

368
00:18:32,079 --> 00:18:35,406
but light EVA shoe that's like 
eight or nine ounces, and you're

369
00:18:35,406 --> 00:18:38,027
like, I'll just take this for my
twenty-six point two. 

370
00:18:38,027 --> 00:18:39,599
It's probably just stayed the 
same. 

371
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,200
The Arahi has just stayed the 
same. 

372
00:18:41,279 --> 00:18:43,481
Yeah. 
Just like small changes along 

373
00:18:43,481 --> 00:18:47,508
the way, but now it feels less 
responsive, even though it 

374
00:18:47,508 --> 00:18:48,615
probably isn't. 
Comparatively. 

375
00:18:48,615 --> 00:18:49,365
Agreed. 
Yeah. 

376
00:18:49,365 --> 00:18:53,865
And then the other one, this one
was actually a very pleasant 

377
00:18:53,865 --> 00:18:55,912
surprise. 
I took it out on my run earlier 

378
00:18:55,912 --> 00:18:57,792
today. 
I've only had one run on it so 

379
00:18:57,792 --> 00:18:59,710
far. 
It literally just came in like 

380
00:18:59,710 --> 00:19:03,119
yesterday or two days ago. 
This is the Mount to Coast C1. 

381
00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:08,150
And so this is their max cushion
shoe. 42 in the heel, 36 in the 

382
00:19:08,150 --> 00:19:10,160
forefoot. 
I don't know the weight. 

383
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:11,474
It doesn't feel very heavy 
though. 

384
00:19:11,474 --> 00:19:13,226
It feels like it's in like the 
nine. 

385
00:19:13,226 --> 00:19:16,269
I don't think it's ten. 
It's like probably high nines, 

386
00:19:16,269 --> 00:19:19,779
maybe on the weight, but I gotta
check that. 

387
00:19:19,779 --> 00:19:22,659
Feels great. 
Like I think it's like just a 

388
00:19:22,659 --> 00:19:24,159
nice high stack rockered 
experience. 

389
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:28,472
The foam is very protective, but
it's a it runs on the firmer 

390
00:19:28,472 --> 00:19:31,120
side, which I like. 
Rockers dialed in well. 

391
00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:33,040
Upper fit fits really, really 
well. 

392
00:19:33,039 --> 00:19:36,120
A lot of volume up front for 
those who need that. 

393
00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:39,200
Just a nice structured rocker. 
I wouldn't say it's a stability 

394
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,639
shoe, but it does start to 
dabble into that stable neutral 

395
00:19:42,639 --> 00:19:45,447
a little bit. 
So I, for just easy running, 

396
00:19:45,447 --> 00:19:48,315
like today, what I was doing, 
just shuffling around, I was 

397
00:19:48,315 --> 00:19:51,416
like, this is, this is nice. 
I really, really liked it, so 

398
00:19:51,416 --> 00:19:54,440
I'm gonna have to get some more 
miles on this before we do end 

399
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,640
of year stuff because I might be
actually thinking about this for

400
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,872
end of year stuff. 
I forgot to mention because they

401
00:20:00,872 --> 00:20:04,084
are that comfortable, I was 
wearing them, and I haven't run 

402
00:20:04,084 --> 00:20:06,368
yet in this. 
I didn't realize Mount to Coast 

403
00:20:06,368 --> 00:20:08,240
actually sent this shoe a long 
time ago. 

404
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,292
They just sent it to the wrong 
address, and I'd had no idea 

405
00:20:11,292 --> 00:20:13,409
until recently. 
So they sent this again and 

406
00:20:13,409 --> 00:20:16,423
finally got to try it. 
But yeah, I agree with David. 

407
00:20:16,423 --> 00:20:19,004
I'm I'm pretty impressed. 
This is also the first time I've

408
00:20:19,004 --> 00:20:21,760
tried a Mount to Coast shoe and 
it fits me true to size. 

409
00:20:21,759 --> 00:20:24,474
Every single other one has 
always fit like a half size 

410
00:20:24,474 --> 00:20:25,875
small. 
And when they were asking, 

411
00:20:25,875 --> 00:20:28,639
they're like, hey, do you want 
to go down a half size? 

412
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:30,720
Because a lot of people are 
saying it fits long. 

413
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:32,799
And I'm like, and BJ and I are 
like, no. 

414
00:20:32,799 --> 00:20:36,616
And it fits like I finally my 
toes aren't hitting the end of 

415
00:20:36,616 --> 00:20:38,081
the shoe. 
So yes, great. 

416
00:20:38,081 --> 00:20:40,904
I'm getting to fully enjoy this.
I just need to run in them. 

417
00:20:40,904 --> 00:20:42,880
I haven't got a chance to yet, 
just walking a ton in them. 

418
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,195
Yeah, I will say this is a lot 
of like what I kind of wanted 

419
00:20:46,195 --> 00:20:47,519
the R1 to be. 
Oh yeah. 

420
00:20:47,519 --> 00:20:50,912
Yeah, 'cause the last time I ran
in a Mount to Coast was the R1 

421
00:20:50,912 --> 00:20:53,928
and I was like, the foam's nice,
everything checks all the boxes,

422
00:20:53,928 --> 00:20:56,639
the upper's comfortable, the 
foam like everything was good. 

423
00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:00,110
I just wished it was just a 
little bit more rockered, 

424
00:21:00,110 --> 00:21:02,000
especially for just long, steady
outings. 

425
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,925
And I feel like the C1 checks 
that box. 

426
00:21:04,925 --> 00:21:06,547
Yeah. 
And it's like blissful. 

427
00:21:06,547 --> 00:21:09,405
So I yeah. 
I just gotta get some more miles

428
00:21:09,405 --> 00:21:12,364
on that thing. 
But I'm happy it came in when it

429
00:21:12,364 --> 00:21:13,440
did. 
So we'll see. 

430
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,707
But very, very impressed with my
initial impressions on that 

431
00:21:17,707 --> 00:21:18,559
shoe. 
Great. 

432
00:21:18,559 --> 00:21:22,495
And I think it retails like at 
something not awful either, but 

433
00:21:22,495 --> 00:21:25,119
I gotta check that. 
That's a good question. 

434
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,680
I have yet to test a Mount to 
Coast shoe. 

435
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,913
Yeah, it's only my second 
because they have those two 

436
00:21:31,913 --> 00:21:34,750
trail models. 
They have what the T1 and H1. 

437
00:21:34,750 --> 00:21:38,807
And I know people like those a 
lot too, but I haven't tried 

438
00:21:38,807 --> 00:21:40,968
those. 
And then they have the P1, which

439
00:21:40,968 --> 00:21:43,336
is the stability model. 
Correct me if I'm wrong? 

440
00:21:43,336 --> 00:21:44,950
Yep. 
That's the stability racer, a 

441
00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:47,644
distance racer, because they 
they don't do short fast shoes, 

442
00:21:47,644 --> 00:21:50,742
they do ultramarathon things. 
They focus on the long stuff. 

443
00:21:50,742 --> 00:21:53,188
Yeah. 
But yeah, if I was running an 

444
00:21:53,188 --> 00:21:55,642
ultramarathon tomorrow on the 
roads, that legitimately that 

445
00:21:55,642 --> 00:21:57,869
that would be on the cards, I 
think. 

446
00:21:57,869 --> 00:22:01,275
I think I might actually like it
more than my Cloud Monster Hyper

447
00:22:01,275 --> 00:22:02,319
3s. 
So we'll see. 

448
00:22:02,319 --> 00:22:05,199
Like for just long steady stuff.
But again, I gotta get more 

449
00:22:05,199 --> 00:22:07,220
miles in 'em. 
This is again initial 

450
00:22:07,220 --> 00:22:09,820
impressions, but I mean really, 
really nice initially. 

451
00:22:09,820 --> 00:22:12,444
That's what I got. 
That's what we have 

452
00:22:12,444 --> 00:22:14,099
in-for-testing. 
As always, the in-for-testing 

453
00:22:14,099 --> 00:22:16,079
segment is fueled by Skratch 
Labs. 

454
00:22:16,079 --> 00:22:19,319
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455
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It's always been good on my 

456
00:22:22,877 --> 00:22:25,159
stomach. 
So that's like for me the number

457
00:22:25,159 --> 00:22:28,240
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458
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,973
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459
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460
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461
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,600
We are now going to get into the
main segments for this episode. 

462
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:44,311
Again, we're going to be talking
about this emerging category of 

463
00:22:44,311 --> 00:22:48,248
super max stacked cushioned 
shoes or super cushioned or 

464
00:22:48,248 --> 00:22:51,440
well, it doesn't have a defined 
name. 

465
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:55,928
I think that the shoe that most 
directly leaned into the 

466
00:22:55,928 --> 00:23:00,752
category was the Slow Cush by 
ASICS because they called it the

467
00:23:00,752 --> 00:23:04,499
Slow Cush. 
So these shoes that are meant to

468
00:23:04,499 --> 00:23:08,772
be a lot of cushion, they're 
meant to be soft, they're meant 

469
00:23:08,772 --> 00:23:11,600
to not necessarily be this 
versatile thing. 

470
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:16,021
And so what we wanted to do is 
talk about what sort of shoes do

471
00:23:16,021 --> 00:23:18,079
we see in this category right 
now? 

472
00:23:18,079 --> 00:23:21,139
Is this category a good one? 
Is it gonna stay? 

473
00:23:21,139 --> 00:23:24,799
Who might it be beneficial for? 
Kind of those types of topics. 

474
00:23:24,799 --> 00:23:27,263
I also want to before we get 
into that, we're gonna 

475
00:23:27,263 --> 00:23:29,878
eventually do a bracket. 
I just want to list the shoes 

476
00:23:29,878 --> 00:23:34,583
that we put in this category. 
So we have the Mizuno Sky Prime,

477
00:23:34,583 --> 00:23:39,298
the Saucony Paramount Max, ASICS
Slow Cush, Nike Vomero Premium, 

478
00:23:39,298 --> 00:23:44,696
so not the plus, the premium. 
We've got the Hoka Skyward X2, 

479
00:23:44,696 --> 00:23:49,214
Cloud Monster Hyper 3, the 
Adidas Hyperboost Edge, Edge, 

480
00:23:49,214 --> 00:23:53,839
yeah, and then the Puma MagMax 
2. 

481
00:23:53,839 --> 00:23:58,468
I would say that in my opinion, 
the one shoe that is least 

482
00:23:58,468 --> 00:24:01,899
appropriate for this category is
the MagMax, mainly based on 

483
00:24:01,899 --> 00:24:04,403
price point, and we'll talk 
about that later. 

484
00:24:04,403 --> 00:24:07,839
But I I I think again this is an
emerging category. 

485
00:24:07,839 --> 00:24:10,856
So we'd love to hear if there's 
people who think hey these shoes

486
00:24:10,856 --> 00:24:14,120
should also be included in this 
category or actually I don't see

487
00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:17,654
those as the same category. 
But Matt, do you want to start 

488
00:24:17,654 --> 00:24:20,755
and just talk about what is 
going on with this category? 

489
00:24:20,755 --> 00:24:23,840
Is it a real category? 
Is it a beneficial way to think 

490
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,240
about these shoes? 
And just kind of some of your 

491
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:27,868
initial thoughts. 
Yeah, before we start on this, I

492
00:24:27,868 --> 00:24:29,836
want to give a shout-out because
literally about an hour and a 

493
00:24:29,836 --> 00:24:32,800
half, two hours ago, I was at 
Portland Running Company and 

494
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,401
they were nice enough to let me 
take several bags of old shoes, 

495
00:24:36,401 --> 00:24:39,604
probably like in the realm of 
like eight to ten bags, trash 

496
00:24:39,604 --> 00:24:42,416
bags of shoes, to go recycle, 
which, like, yeah, normally 

497
00:24:42,416 --> 00:24:45,152
that's that's a lot, but they 
took it anyway. 

498
00:24:45,152 --> 00:24:47,279
And really cool group of people 
there. 

499
00:24:47,279 --> 00:24:50,282
Tim and John, who were nice 
enough to spend some time 

500
00:24:50,282 --> 00:24:51,919
talking with me, were really 
awesome. 

501
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,272
And they actually brought this 
up to go, hey, you know, because

502
00:24:54,272 --> 00:24:56,579
whenever I get the opportunity 
to be in our local running 

503
00:24:56,579 --> 00:24:58,702
store, be with people that know 
the podcast, I'm like, what 

504
00:24:58,702 --> 00:25:00,329
what's your feedback? 
And so these two very 

505
00:25:00,329 --> 00:25:02,635
experienced Tim actually used to
work for Nike for thirty years 

506
00:25:02,635 --> 00:25:06,277
and is one of the driving forces
behind creating the Nike Free, 

507
00:25:06,277 --> 00:25:09,371
which was really cool. 
And again, it was the question 

508
00:25:09,371 --> 00:25:12,319
going, hey, we've got this kind 
of newer category of shoes. 

509
00:25:12,319 --> 00:25:17,854
Beforehand, there were only a 
couple that sat in this like 45 

510
00:25:17,854 --> 00:25:21,980
plus 44, 45 stack height. 
Most things were really at 40 or

511
00:25:21,980 --> 00:25:25,840
then even before that below. 
And now you we have tons of 

512
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,125
models that are sitting super 
high off the ground. 

513
00:25:29,125 --> 00:25:31,680
And they're not the foams aren't
dead. 

514
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,319
Like they're bouncier, newer f 
newer foam. 

515
00:25:34,319 --> 00:25:37,557
So like, you know, the term 
super gets thrown around a lot, 

516
00:25:37,557 --> 00:25:41,079
but they're these, as Nathan 
said, these super max stack 

517
00:25:41,079 --> 00:25:44,020
height training shoes. 
They're not really meant to go 

518
00:25:44,020 --> 00:25:46,713
really, really fast, although 
you know, the the edge from 

519
00:25:46,713 --> 00:25:50,789
Adidas kind of that was marketed
as being a quicker shoe, but you

520
00:25:50,789 --> 00:25:54,450
know, they're really tall. 
So this category has definitely 

521
00:25:54,450 --> 00:25:57,576
evolved very fast. 
And I think the most recent 

522
00:25:57,576 --> 00:26:00,055
stuff, especially with ASICS 
releasing the Slow Cush, Mizuno 

523
00:26:00,055 --> 00:26:03,935
with the Sky Prime, Saucony 
recently with the Paramount Max.

524
00:26:03,935 --> 00:26:08,304
Yeah, it's just blown up. 
So I do think this is a category

525
00:26:08,304 --> 00:26:10,320
now or these like extra tall 
shoes. 

526
00:26:10,319 --> 00:26:12,672
I don't know if we can call them
max because that's what we used 

527
00:26:12,672 --> 00:26:16,424
to call the 40 millimeter shoe. 
So I don't know if this is like 

528
00:26:16,424 --> 00:26:20,196
ultra max now, but it's it's 
definitely a category of these 

529
00:26:20,196 --> 00:26:22,256
super tall, super so cushioned 
shoes. 

530
00:26:22,256 --> 00:26:26,728
Not all of them are soft, most 
of them are, but yeah, it's 

531
00:26:26,728 --> 00:26:29,978
definitely a thing. 
And I think the other piece to 

532
00:26:29,978 --> 00:26:33,464
think about is people are seem 
to be enjoying these shoes. 

533
00:26:33,464 --> 00:26:37,009
And we don't know the effects. 
We are still trying to figure 

534
00:26:37,009 --> 00:26:38,927
out the effects of having 
carbon-plated shoes. 

535
00:26:38,927 --> 00:26:41,119
Most of these don't have plates 
in them. 

536
00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:44,480
I think the Skyward X does have 
it. 

537
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,792
I think everybody else does not,
to my memory, although there may

538
00:26:47,792 --> 00:26:51,880
be like I think there's like a 
shank in the I think actually I 

539
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,220
might be wrong. 
But I think it's all just 

540
00:26:54,220 --> 00:26:55,500
hyper-based. 
I think it's just hype- Yeah, 

541
00:26:55,500 --> 00:26:57,574
you're right. 
But not necessarily plated for 

542
00:26:57,574 --> 00:27:01,448
the most part, but still stiff 
and super tall and lots of foam.

543
00:27:01,448 --> 00:27:04,080
So definitely a category. 
And I don't think we really 

544
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,259
understand. 
We have some basic like 

545
00:27:06,259 --> 00:27:10,915
biomechanic stuff of like, yeah,
when you have a shoe this tall 

546
00:27:10,915 --> 00:27:14,287
with a rocker, it's gonna it's 
gonna load the proximal joints 

547
00:27:14,287 --> 00:27:17,599
like the knee and the hip a lot 
more than the ankle. 

548
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,143
So those with ankle pathology, 
it's probably going to be really

549
00:27:20,143 --> 00:27:23,496
good, which is probably why I'm 
doing very well in this in this 

550
00:27:23,496 --> 00:27:25,519
category because it offloads my 
Achilles tendon. 

551
00:27:25,519 --> 00:27:29,629
Those with pathology in those 
areas may struggle a little bit.

552
00:27:29,629 --> 00:27:32,240
We don't know long term effects 
though. 

553
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,540
We do know that people tend to 
land a lot harder in shoes with 

554
00:27:35,540 --> 00:27:37,872
a lot of cushions. 
So I'm sure people that wear 

555
00:27:37,872 --> 00:27:40,418
these they're they probably hit 
the ground a lot harder because 

556
00:27:40,418 --> 00:27:44,210
there's impaired proprioception.
Is that a good or a bad thing? 

557
00:27:44,210 --> 00:27:46,800
No idea. 
But it's definitely a category. 

558
00:27:46,799 --> 00:27:50,087
There are definitely some 
biomechanical factors, but this 

559
00:27:50,087 --> 00:27:52,960
category expanding this quickly 
is very new. 

560
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,008
I I think a defining feature, as
you mentioned, is that it's not 

561
00:27:57,008 --> 00:28:00,416
just how much stack, it's the 
type of foam they're putting in 

562
00:28:00,416 --> 00:28:03,324
there. 
So, you know, you look at the 

563
00:28:03,324 --> 00:28:07,416
you know, the Sky Prime from 
Mizuno, it's got Mizuno Enerzy, 

564
00:28:07,416 --> 00:28:13,491
Enerzy NXT Plus, you know, the 
Paramount Max is gonna have the 

565
00:28:13,491 --> 00:28:15,998
Incredirun. 
They don't just have their kind 

566
00:28:15,998 --> 00:28:19,987
of I think it's Incredi Lux. 
Sorry, did I say that right? 

567
00:28:19,987 --> 00:28:21,788
Incredible. 
Or is it Incredirun? 

568
00:28:21,788 --> 00:28:23,095
It's incredibly Incredirun. 
Okay. 

569
00:28:23,095 --> 00:28:24,399
Okay. 
Triumph was incredible. 

570
00:28:24,559 --> 00:28:27,610
It is incredibly luxurious and 
incredibly bouncy though. 

571
00:28:27,610 --> 00:28:29,896
So it's incredible things. 
Yeah, yeah. 

572
00:28:29,896 --> 00:28:31,904
Lots of incredible. 
So yeah. 

573
00:28:31,904 --> 00:28:35,360
Those foams that aren't just 
their training shoes. 

574
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:39,615
It's this next level of 
compliance and resilience in 

575
00:28:39,615 --> 00:28:42,001
their foams. 
And that's why I think that the 

576
00:28:42,001 --> 00:28:44,469
one shoe that fits in the 
category a little less is the 

577
00:28:44,469 --> 00:28:47,384
MagMax, because it's just using 
not just, but it's using their 

578
00:28:47,384 --> 00:28:49,608
Nitro foam. 
It's not a special edition of 

579
00:28:49,608 --> 00:28:51,996
that sort of foam. 
So that's where I think that 

580
00:28:51,996 --> 00:28:54,964
this one kind of sits a little 
bit to the side, but we're going

581
00:28:54,964 --> 00:28:57,950
to keep it in there for the sake
of the conversation because of 

582
00:28:57,950 --> 00:29:01,166
how much is is in there. 
But because of the type of foam 

583
00:29:01,166 --> 00:29:03,994
that's used, I think you see 
other defining features of the 

584
00:29:03,994 --> 00:29:07,520
design of most of these. 
If you look from behind or you 

585
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,400
look underneath, the width of 
these midsoles is massive. 

586
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,306
That's a huge thing. 
So, like, not just the height, 

587
00:29:13,306 --> 00:29:15,200
but the width of the ground 
contact. 

588
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,766
And they have to do that because
of how compliant these different

589
00:29:18,766 --> 00:29:21,075
foams are. 
You're gonna have a ton of 

590
00:29:21,075 --> 00:29:24,495
width, which means it's gonna 
span out to the outside and to 

591
00:29:24,495 --> 00:29:27,580
the inside of your foot. 
And that has other biomechanical

592
00:29:27,580 --> 00:29:30,560
implications for when it 
contacts the ground and how. 

593
00:29:30,559 --> 00:29:34,844
So I think that's another 
defining feature is special foam

594
00:29:34,844 --> 00:29:38,716
that's so compliant that it 
requires increased width in the 

595
00:29:38,716 --> 00:29:40,760
shoe. 
And most of these shoes are 

596
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:42,799
going to have that component to 
them. 

597
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,320
The the nice part about that, 
not all of them, but a lot of 

598
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,353
them end up being more stable 
than you would think for how 

599
00:29:49,353 --> 00:29:52,550
much foam is underfoot, the 
softness of the foam just 'cause

600
00:29:52,550 --> 00:29:55,484
yeah, they did increase the 
width with not all of them, but 

601
00:29:55,484 --> 00:29:58,028
most of them because the you 
gotta keep the foot on the 

602
00:29:58,028 --> 00:29:59,970
platform. 
It's that soft, but surprisingly

603
00:29:59,970 --> 00:30:03,079
stable in a lot of them because 
of that. 

604
00:30:03,079 --> 00:30:05,839
David, do you have thoughts on 
this category? 

605
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,190
I I think you guys hit a lot of 
it. 

606
00:30:08,190 --> 00:30:10,720
You know, I think a lot of them 
are using next generation foams.

607
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,044
The platforms are usually wide. 
They're usually really high 

608
00:30:14,044 --> 00:30:15,520
stack. 
They're usually rockered. 

609
00:30:15,519 --> 00:30:19,519
Usually not plated, right? 
Like you guys were saying too. 

610
00:30:19,519 --> 00:30:22,927
I mean you usually don't have to
when there's freaking that much 

611
00:30:22,927 --> 00:30:23,495
foam. 
No. 

612
00:30:23,495 --> 00:30:25,759
Yeah, they're not flexible at 
all for sure. 

613
00:30:25,759 --> 00:30:26,833
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

614
00:30:26,833 --> 00:30:33,814
And the goal isn't to like go 
fast or like make it snappy 

615
00:30:33,814 --> 00:30:35,959
either. 
I think usually. 

616
00:30:35,959 --> 00:30:38,639
So yeah. 
Yeah, for sure. 

617
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,640
I think one of the things that 
one of the issues that I have 

618
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,230
with this category is the fact 
that they're coming in at for 

619
00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:49,600
most of them two hundred plus in
terms of price. 

620
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,820
And I I just have a hard time 
and that you know if it's the 

621
00:30:52,820 --> 00:30:54,960
right shoe for you, it's the 
right shoe for you. 

622
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,480
But these shoes are not 
typically, most of them are not 

623
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,851
versatile. 
They're a one trick pony that 

624
00:31:00,851 --> 00:31:03,920
are gonna go out and be slow and
easy. 

625
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:08,177
And I just don't know what 
justifies the 200 plus price 

626
00:31:08,177 --> 00:31:10,879
point for this yes, next 
generation foam. 

627
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,169
It's not like they design these 
foams and these companies can 

628
00:31:14,169 --> 00:31:17,900
come tell me I'm wrong, but the 
R&D going into these foams for 

629
00:31:17,900 --> 00:31:21,250
just this purpose, I'm just 
curious about what that all 

630
00:31:21,250 --> 00:31:23,840
looks like. 
And if they're using this type 

631
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,360
of foam in other models, you 
know, they're getting a little 

632
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,300
bit of a play where they can put
that R&D into lots of different 

633
00:31:31,300 --> 00:31:33,240
things. 
And just adding 10 millimeters 

634
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,504
can't be $20, $30 worth of foam 
because like some of these shoes

635
00:31:37,504 --> 00:31:40,512
are $225. 
And so I'm I think that's my 

636
00:31:40,512 --> 00:31:43,872
beef is like you have a 
decreased versatility at a 

637
00:31:43,872 --> 00:31:46,722
higher price point. 
And it's because it's got this 

638
00:31:46,722 --> 00:31:50,094
new generation foam in this, you
know higher stack and more 

639
00:31:50,094 --> 00:31:51,894
material. 
But I would want someone to 

640
00:31:51,894 --> 00:31:54,624
really justify that for me. 
I I haven't heard a good 

641
00:31:54,624 --> 00:31:56,535
rationale yet. 
Y'all could convince me it's 

642
00:31:56,535 --> 00:31:59,359
worth it, but I just that's my 
beef with it. 

643
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:03,536
I think that you can get a lot 
out of shoes that are in the 160

644
00:32:03,536 --> 00:32:06,203
to 180 realm. 
That gets you pretty much the 

645
00:32:06,203 --> 00:32:08,400
same thing here outside of just 
experience. 

646
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,687
But that's more of a value 
question, which comes down to 

647
00:32:11,687 --> 00:32:12,879
individuality. 
I get that. 

648
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,524
I I will say also that 
durability on all of them isn't 

649
00:32:16,524 --> 00:32:19,025
perfect. 
You know, the Paramount Max, the

650
00:32:19,025 --> 00:32:23,470
ASICS Slow Cush, like I'm again,
it's not just the outsole, but 

651
00:32:23,470 --> 00:32:25,519
I'm wearing through the outsole 
pretty quick. 

652
00:32:25,519 --> 00:32:29,739
You know, I'm I'm getting up to 
sixty-ish, sixty to a hundred K 

653
00:32:29,739 --> 00:32:32,560
mileage on the Slow Cush. 
I'm kind of starting to tear 

654
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,411
through the rubber a little bit.
You know, I I would expect with 

655
00:32:35,411 --> 00:32:37,770
that much foam, everything 
underfoot, you get a little more

656
00:32:37,770 --> 00:32:41,006
miles out of it for the dollar, 
but I don't think you can 

657
00:32:41,006 --> 00:32:43,860
necessarily say that. 
I think you're getting more 

658
00:32:43,860 --> 00:32:46,800
stack height, your redirecting 
force is more. 

659
00:32:46,799 --> 00:32:49,637
I don't necessarily think you're
gonna get more miles out of 

660
00:32:49,637 --> 00:32:52,188
these, because again, we know 
that taller shoes don't 

661
00:32:52,188 --> 00:32:55,174
necessarily last longer. 
They oftentimes break down just 

662
00:32:55,174 --> 00:32:57,690
as quick. 
So yeah, I can understand your 

663
00:32:57,690 --> 00:33:00,639
sentiments about going, hey, 
you're charging a ton of money. 

664
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,095
Is that, you know, I get it's 
more shoes are really worth that

665
00:33:04,095 --> 00:33:06,215
much more and that 200 plus 
price point. 

666
00:33:06,215 --> 00:33:08,400
Right. 
Without not having as much 

667
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,079
versatility. 
But here comes David. 

668
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,530
Yeah, I think the versatility is
an interesting question because 

669
00:33:13,530 --> 00:33:17,040
I think just like you have the 
Andreas of the world where you 

670
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,344
they tend to like things a 
little bit firmer, a little bit 

671
00:33:19,344 --> 00:33:21,200
more grounded, like kind of a 
snappier feel. 

672
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,723
You also have the BJs of the 
world who like things really 

673
00:33:24,723 --> 00:33:28,412
soft, compliant, like give us 
give me as much of that foam as 

674
00:33:28,412 --> 00:33:31,078
you possibly can. 
And for some people, that could 

675
00:33:31,078 --> 00:33:34,199
be the difference in them 
running a marathon or not 

676
00:33:34,199 --> 00:33:37,920
running a marathon at all. 
And so I don't know. 

677
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,638
I feel like it does potentially 
open the door to a larger market

678
00:33:41,638 --> 00:33:44,784
of I think we romanticize the 
super shoes and the performance 

679
00:33:44,784 --> 00:33:47,655
shoes is like that's what you 
run your marathons in, but 

680
00:33:47,655 --> 00:33:50,864
there's a very large handful of 
people who are not even touching

681
00:33:50,864 --> 00:33:54,128
any of those models and they 
would prefer to like the people 

682
00:33:54,128 --> 00:33:56,510
that would just wear their 
trainer for the marathon, it's 

683
00:33:56,510 --> 00:34:00,046
what I run in, right? 
So I think it's more in that 

684
00:34:00,046 --> 00:34:03,755
market that you probably would 
see like, is it worth the 

685
00:34:03,755 --> 00:34:05,833
upgrade from a cost standpoint? 
Value. 

686
00:34:05,833 --> 00:34:08,024
And for some people, it might 
be. 

687
00:34:08,024 --> 00:34:10,215
Yeah. 
They just like it just feels 

688
00:34:10,215 --> 00:34:12,719
good on my feet for twenty six 
miles. 

689
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,206
I can't handle that other shoe 
for more than eighteen. 

690
00:34:16,206 --> 00:34:20,101
So I don't know. 
That just kind of little thought

691
00:34:20,101 --> 00:34:25,103
piece, but the reality is that 
value comes down to your your 

692
00:34:25,103 --> 00:34:27,690
situation. 
I I would just love for them to 

693
00:34:27,690 --> 00:34:30,400
do this at one seventy. 
That's what I would love. 

694
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,907
Like throw these down at one 
eighty, one seventy, then I'd be

695
00:34:33,907 --> 00:34:36,534
And I'd like super shoes to be 
two hundred. 

696
00:34:36,534 --> 00:34:39,495
Me too. 
Hey, look at Skechers put out 

697
00:34:39,495 --> 00:34:41,475
two twenty five. 
Great shoe. 

698
00:34:41,475 --> 00:34:45,039
So you know, it can't be done. 
All right. 

699
00:34:45,039 --> 00:34:46,960
Well, let's let's start doing 
our bracket. 

700
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,174
David, we're leaning into you as
the specs guy so I just told I'm

701
00:34:51,174 --> 00:34:54,543
springing that on you right now 
but you're our specs guy 

702
00:34:54,543 --> 00:34:58,652
normally you've usually got it 
on lock in your head so we won't

703
00:34:58,652 --> 00:35:03,271
have perfect specs on everything
but David, can I buy David some 

704
00:35:03,271 --> 00:35:05,078
time? 
Yeah, yeah, buy me some time. 

705
00:35:05,078 --> 00:35:08,107
I got like maybe two or three 
models here I gotta look up. 

706
00:35:08,107 --> 00:35:10,534
Okay, sure. 
So Nathan, can we have a quick 

707
00:35:10,534 --> 00:35:13,202
conversation on and here's the 
question that we frequent like 

708
00:35:13,202 --> 00:35:15,855
frequently get, are these 
necessarily good for us? 

709
00:35:15,855 --> 00:35:17,599
And that's a very loaded 
question. 

710
00:35:17,599 --> 00:35:21,082
That's coming from those in 
running stores, high school 

711
00:35:21,082 --> 00:35:24,812
athletes, going, hey, is this 
are there any consequences to 

712
00:35:24,812 --> 00:35:26,831
maybe using this? 
You know, yes, it's cushion, 

713
00:35:26,831 --> 00:35:29,540
it's soft, it's comfortable. 
People are you know, that's 

714
00:35:29,540 --> 00:35:31,920
comfort is a really big 
predictive factor. 

715
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,420
Is there anything people should 
be aware of choosing this 

716
00:35:35,420 --> 00:35:37,519
category? 
Because it is pretty extreme. 

717
00:35:37,519 --> 00:35:39,769
I think they're they're super 
comfortable, but is there 

718
00:35:39,769 --> 00:35:41,519
anything that people should be 
aware of? 

719
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:46,640
I think you hit on some of those
things already, but I I I think 

720
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,031
that there are certain bi not 
certain, but there are 

721
00:35:50,031 --> 00:35:52,712
biomechanical implications with 
unknown long term consequences. 

722
00:35:52,712 --> 00:35:56,159
I think that's the that's the 
short of it. 

723
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,172
As you mentioned, when you have 
a softer platform, it's shown 

724
00:35:59,172 --> 00:36:02,862
that we run more stiffly, so we 
may not bend our knee as much or

725
00:36:02,862 --> 00:36:05,700
our hip or dorsiflex to our 
ankle to be able to compensate 

726
00:36:05,700 --> 00:36:09,607
for how soft it is under the 
foot and just stabilizing your 

727
00:36:09,607 --> 00:36:12,330
own system. 
Does that have a long-term 

728
00:36:12,330 --> 00:36:14,466
impact? 
There are, you know, people who 

729
00:36:14,466 --> 00:36:17,079
there there are studies 
published and there are people 

730
00:36:17,079 --> 00:36:22,083
who hold to this idea of the 
changing in our you know foot 

731
00:36:22,083 --> 00:36:25,920
musculature when we use higher 
stack shoes, those conversations

732
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:31,952
are still out there. 
And I I I again I think that 

733
00:36:31,952 --> 00:36:37,294
there's these observations that 
show that things are different, 

734
00:36:37,294 --> 00:36:41,759
but I don't think that we know 
any long term consequences. 

735
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,467
My perspective as always, or at 
least I think it's always been 

736
00:36:45,467 --> 00:36:49,920
this way is that if you are 
going to be holding to a 

737
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:54,540
specific standard of amount of 
cushion and you live in that 

738
00:36:54,540 --> 00:36:58,774
cushion realm for long enough, 
you can't just switch to the 

739
00:36:58,774 --> 00:37:01,366
other extreme quickly. 
You need to be able to slowly 

740
00:37:01,366 --> 00:37:04,194
work your way to because I think
our bodies do adapt to the 

741
00:37:04,194 --> 00:37:08,176
stresses we put on them. 
And so if we put, you know, this

742
00:37:08,176 --> 00:37:12,879
super high stack shoe underneath
us and, we really try to live in

743
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,518
that world for months, years, 
and then we try to switch back 

744
00:37:16,518 --> 00:37:18,639
over to something, that's gonna 
be problematic. 

745
00:37:18,639 --> 00:37:21,331
And when you get higher and 
higher and higher, that means 

746
00:37:21,331 --> 00:37:24,469
that your movement towards these
lower stacks shoes, like insert 

747
00:37:24,469 --> 00:37:27,897
Lems into the conversation. 
That's where I think the problem

748
00:37:27,897 --> 00:37:29,892
is. 
I think that you can live in 

749
00:37:29,892 --> 00:37:32,252
your environment that you build 
because your body's gonna adapt 

750
00:37:32,252 --> 00:37:35,720
to it, but then it might make 
you less capable of switching to

751
00:37:35,720 --> 00:37:38,132
a different category. 
I think that's where my mind 

752
00:37:38,132 --> 00:37:39,750
goes. 
Do you have any other thoughts? 

753
00:37:39,750 --> 00:37:42,000
I I 100% agree that I think 
that's the thing. 

754
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,610
I think living in these shoes, 
there isn't necessarily 

755
00:37:44,610 --> 00:37:46,639
something wrong with across the 
entire population. 

756
00:37:46,639 --> 00:37:49,818
I think there's going to be 
pockets of people that because 

757
00:37:49,818 --> 00:37:52,701
they're landing stiffer, because
they may they may be shock 

758
00:37:52,701 --> 00:37:55,850
absorbing more at the knee and 
the hip, that those unique 

759
00:37:55,850 --> 00:37:57,280
individuals, maybe this isn't 
best. 

760
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,044
But I think for everyone 
overall, it's not necessarily a 

761
00:38:00,044 --> 00:38:01,881
problem. 
The problem is, as you said, if 

762
00:38:01,881 --> 00:38:04,996
you're going to make big jumps, 
if you make a small jump, to the

763
00:38:04,996 --> 00:38:07,699
you know, like a lot of the 
super racing shoes aren't that 

764
00:38:07,699 --> 00:38:10,399
different in terms of the stack 
height, like a little bit lower.

765
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,140
But you know, the high school 
athlete, college athlete, going 

766
00:38:13,140 --> 00:38:17,095
from something like this to now 
a low to the ground track spike 

767
00:38:17,095 --> 00:38:21,201
or cross-country spike, I think 
that that's where we might see 

768
00:38:21,201 --> 00:38:24,504
problems to go. 
Hey, know that the taller you 

769
00:38:24,504 --> 00:38:28,872
get, if you go to the other 
extreme, that shift may have 

770
00:38:28,872 --> 00:38:31,069
risks, right? 
Versus, you know, I think being 

771
00:38:31,069 --> 00:38:33,756
in these by themselves, I don't 
think it that's necessarily the 

772
00:38:33,756 --> 00:38:34,940
problem. 
And yeah, you're right. 

773
00:38:34,940 --> 00:38:37,759
We don't have the long-term data
to be able to say that. 

774
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,912
It it'll be very interesting 
with this stuff coming in over 

775
00:38:40,912 --> 00:38:45,086
the next twenty, thirty years to
go, Hey, do rates of things like

776
00:38:45,086 --> 00:38:47,280
osteoarthritis change? 
We know that running by itself 

777
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,920
isn't necessarily a risk factor 
for OA, even though people love 

778
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,150
to throw that at there, but do 
things change? 

779
00:38:52,150 --> 00:38:54,400
Are people able to run longer? 
Are they not? 

780
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,400
Is it you know, we we don't 
know. 

781
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,293
But I think you hit it on the 
head going, the taller you get, 

782
00:39:00,293 --> 00:39:03,242
if you try to suddenly switch 
something lower, your body's 

783
00:39:03,242 --> 00:39:05,908
probably not is is farther 
removed from that. 

784
00:39:05,908 --> 00:39:08,239
So no, it's gonna take more 
time. 

785
00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:11,528
And I think people that spend 
time in less shoe, it's gonna 

786
00:39:11,528 --> 00:39:14,341
take longer for people to 
transition going, hey, if you've

787
00:39:14,341 --> 00:39:17,627
spent a whole summer as a high 
school or college athlete, you 

788
00:39:17,627 --> 00:39:20,988
know, running in these things 
and now you're slowly going to 

789
00:39:20,988 --> 00:39:25,196
put on spikes, you need to take 
a lot longer to transition in 

790
00:39:25,196 --> 00:39:28,273
before your first full workout, 
your first full race, because 

791
00:39:28,273 --> 00:39:32,240
you've been in so much more. 
So it just you need more time. 

792
00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:36,008
So what we're gonna do now is 
we're gonna take eight of these 

793
00:39:36,008 --> 00:39:40,025
shoes that we think fit into 
this category and we put them in

794
00:39:40,025 --> 00:39:42,716
a bracket, totally randomized. 
We didn't try to seed them at 

795
00:39:42,716 --> 00:39:46,800
all. 
We just had our list and we spat

796
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,418
them into randomized order. 
We're gonna bracket them up and 

797
00:39:50,418 --> 00:39:52,960
then we're gonna see who comes 
out on top. 

798
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,696
The way that it'll work is that 
we'll each take our vote for 

799
00:39:56,696 --> 00:39:59,990
which one is what we think is 
the better shoe construction 

800
00:39:59,990 --> 00:40:03,185
wise, both a combination of 
personal preference, but also 

801
00:40:03,185 --> 00:40:04,960
like expanding outside of 
ourselves. 

802
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:09,440
We're gonna take a little bit of
a more of a, hey, as our PT mind

803
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,939
says, like who's gonna which 
shoe is gonna suit more folks 

804
00:40:12,939 --> 00:40:17,671
the there's two shoes that we 
run into a little bit of funny 

805
00:40:17,671 --> 00:40:21,136
business and it's the Puma 
MagMax and the Adidas Hyperboost

806
00:40:21,136 --> 00:40:25,237
Edge because only two of the 
three of us have tested those 

807
00:40:25,237 --> 00:40:27,565
two shoes. 
In that situation, if there's 

808
00:40:27,565 --> 00:40:31,184
not consensus between the two 
people who have tested it, the 

809
00:40:31,184 --> 00:40:34,840
third person who hasn't tested 
it gets to just pick based off 

810
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,312
of vibes. 
Which if y'all are upset about 

811
00:40:37,312 --> 00:40:41,360
that, Matt and David, I'm sorry,
but this is I think it's great. 

812
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,323
We're gonna be okay, we're gonna
be fine, we're just ranking 

813
00:40:46,323 --> 00:40:48,880
shoes on a arbitrary bracket. 
I think that's the best one. 

814
00:40:49,039 --> 00:40:51,319
This is the best possible way to
like do that. 

815
00:40:51,319 --> 00:40:53,608
This is great. 
Kind of like which one do I 

816
00:40:53,608 --> 00:40:55,211
think based on the description? 
All right. 

817
00:40:55,211 --> 00:40:57,168
Yep. 
So we have our first matchup 

818
00:40:57,168 --> 00:40:59,759
here, and I actually have both 
of these ones. 

819
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:08,104
It's the Mizuno Sky Prime and a 
shoe that's been out for a while

820
00:41:08,104 --> 00:41:11,679
now, but the Nike Vomero 
Premium. 

821
00:41:11,679 --> 00:41:13,857
So Sky Prime versus Nike 
Premium. 

822
00:41:13,857 --> 00:41:17,119
Matt, you get to go first on 
this one. 

823
00:41:17,599 --> 00:41:25,046
So I have worn a variation of 
that, but I'm gonna vote for the

824
00:41:25,046 --> 00:41:28,248
Nike Pegasus Premium. 
Not just because I see Vomero 

825
00:41:28,248 --> 00:41:31,732
Premium, not just because I see 
them all over the place, but I 

826
00:41:31,732 --> 00:41:35,724
think it really exemplifies the 
insanity, insane bounce. 

827
00:41:35,724 --> 00:41:41,039
I think the Prime is a good 
first first attempt. 

828
00:41:41,039 --> 00:41:43,273
I did not like the toe box was 
really tapered. 

829
00:41:43,273 --> 00:41:45,280
It took a little bit more to 
break in. 

830
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,599
I think it's a solid shoe, but 
the Peg, or sorry, the Vomero 

831
00:41:48,599 --> 00:41:51,983
Premium just hard to compete 
with the craziness of that shoe.

832
00:41:51,983 --> 00:41:56,457
David, what about you? 
Yeah, I think it really embodies

833
00:41:56,457 --> 00:42:00,480
the super max category on the 
Nike Vomero Premium. 

834
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,800
It's got insane bounce, insane 
cushion without being unstable 

835
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:06,730
necessarily. 
And I think having 55 

836
00:42:06,730 --> 00:42:10,204
millimeters of ZoomX and the Air
pods and like doing what they 

837
00:42:10,204 --> 00:42:14,223
did with that shoe actually is I
think a pretty big success 

838
00:42:14,223 --> 00:42:17,599
because that could have very 
easily been an unstable monster.

839
00:42:17,599 --> 00:42:22,080
I like the Sky Prime. 
I I do, but I think I think the 

840
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,960
Vomero Premium is just a step 
ahead right now. 

841
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:29,280
But I think the Sky Prime has 
the potential to be a 

842
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,611
top-of-the-list shoe. 
The foam is excellent, it's a 

843
00:42:31,611 --> 00:42:34,291
more manageable option, I think,
from a platform and running 

844
00:42:34,291 --> 00:42:36,439
standpoint for probably most 
people. 

845
00:42:36,439 --> 00:42:40,031
Upper could probably be a little
more spacious. 

846
00:42:40,031 --> 00:42:42,749
Yeah. 
Right now, well, so my vote 

847
00:42:42,749 --> 00:42:46,822
doesn't matter at this point. 
But we have, you know, Vomero 

848
00:42:46,822 --> 00:42:49,391
Premium, I think was listed 
originally as two thirty, but 

849
00:42:49,391 --> 00:42:52,463
right now you can get it for one
eighty-five on at Running 

850
00:42:52,463 --> 00:42:54,511
Warehouse. 
I think I looked up the sale 

851
00:42:54,511 --> 00:42:57,334
prices before this. 
The Sky Prime is right in that 

852
00:42:57,334 --> 00:43:00,135
$200 realm. 
I remember when we first started

853
00:43:00,135 --> 00:43:03,017
testing the Vomero Premium, one 
of the statements Andrea made, I

854
00:43:03,017 --> 00:43:05,519
just keep bringing her up today 
because she's amazing. 

855
00:43:05,519 --> 00:43:08,696
And she's like, it feels like it
kind of runs for you sometimes 

856
00:43:08,696 --> 00:43:10,160
when you're doing that easy 
stuff. 

857
00:43:10,159 --> 00:43:13,840
I the I did not like it for 
longer efforts for some reason. 

858
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,860
I only liked it for shorter 
stuff, which feels so counter to

859
00:43:16,860 --> 00:43:19,119
how much is there, but I think 
that's why. 

860
00:43:19,119 --> 00:43:23,571
So I actually lean to the 
Mizuno, even though I don't like

861
00:43:23,571 --> 00:43:28,104
super plush stuff, I I still 
liked the t the the toe box, 

862
00:43:28,104 --> 00:43:30,830
yes, felt tight at the 
beginning, but I felt it's so 

863
00:43:30,830 --> 00:43:32,559
stretchy that it actually was 
really comfortable. 

864
00:43:32,559 --> 00:43:36,585
So I I felt like this shoe 
epitomized comfort and so I 

865
00:43:36,585 --> 00:43:40,140
would pick this one over the 
Vomero Premium, but doesn't 

866
00:43:40,140 --> 00:43:43,920
matter because Vomero Premium is
moving on. 

867
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:48,050
Our next battle here, so I gotta
I can ditch can ditch one of 

868
00:43:48,050 --> 00:43:52,119
those now. 
Our next battle here is the 

869
00:43:52,119 --> 00:43:56,759
ASICS Slow Cush against the 
Adidas Hyperboost Edge. 

870
00:43:56,759 --> 00:44:02,214
So this is one of those. 
I have not tested the Adidas 

871
00:44:02,214 --> 00:44:06,160
Hyperboost Edge, so I'll be the 
vibe vote if I have to. 

872
00:44:06,159 --> 00:44:09,762
David, you get to start as you 
hide behind the shoes. 

873
00:44:09,762 --> 00:44:13,359
That's like a two of the 
behemoths on this list, man. 

874
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,292
Having to go against each other 
early. 

875
00:44:16,292 --> 00:44:18,800
Hey, it's random bracketing. 
Random bracketing. 

876
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,180
The Slow Cush is like everything
we talked about. 

877
00:44:22,180 --> 00:44:25,367
High stack, nice foam. 
Just really pleasant ride for 

878
00:44:25,367 --> 00:44:28,400
slow miles, right? 
It's in the name, Slow Cush. 

879
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,220
Like that's what they're going 
for, and I think they did an 

880
00:44:31,220 --> 00:44:33,649
excellent job with it. 
The Hyperboost Edge, like you 

881
00:44:33,649 --> 00:44:37,222
said, is kind of the interesting
one in this category where it's 

882
00:44:37,222 --> 00:44:39,847
definitely a little bit lighter.
It's in the low nine ounce 

883
00:44:39,847 --> 00:44:41,183
range. 
Like the Hyperboost midsole 

884
00:44:41,183 --> 00:44:45,047
itself is kind of a little bit 
more of like a beaded type of 

885
00:44:45,047 --> 00:44:47,727
sensation, and it's more bouncy.
And you definitely get more 

886
00:44:47,727 --> 00:44:50,910
responsiveness out of this foam,
but I still think it's like more

887
00:44:50,910 --> 00:44:54,041
of that kind of super trainer, 
like just long rhythmic efforts,

888
00:44:54,041 --> 00:44:56,639
like you're just going out for 
your long run. 

889
00:44:56,639 --> 00:44:59,628
I think the one thing with this 
one is I think the upper could 

890
00:44:59,628 --> 00:45:01,119
have used a little bit more 
work. 

891
00:45:01,119 --> 00:45:03,597
And I've heard some dabbles out 
there that like they made some 

892
00:45:03,597 --> 00:45:05,039
changes to the heel collar or 
not. 

893
00:45:05,039 --> 00:45:06,871
Whether they did or didn't I 
don't know I had problems with 

894
00:45:06,871 --> 00:45:09,440
my red pair, I didn't have 
problems with my blue pair, I 

895
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,440
don't know. 
But you had two pairs and I got 

896
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:15,040
zero, it's great. 
Yeah. 

897
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,360
Yeah, because the red one would 
like kind of dig into my heel 

898
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:25,202
there. 
I had to like change my laces. 

899
00:45:25,202 --> 00:45:31,840
I like the Hyperboost Edge a 
lot. 

900
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:35,506
I mean a lot, a lot, but I think
I think it just needs a little 

901
00:45:35,506 --> 00:45:38,278
bit of refinement to be there. 
Where the Slow Cush feels like 

902
00:45:38,278 --> 00:45:41,063
it's just that nice, pleasant 
shoe I could just slip on right 

903
00:45:41,063 --> 00:45:44,500
now, go out for a nice, easy 
run, and not think twice about 

904
00:45:44,500 --> 00:45:46,687
it. 
So I'm gonna go with the Slow 

905
00:45:46,687 --> 00:45:49,928
Cush. 
It feels much more like a final 

906
00:45:49,928 --> 00:45:52,896
product right now. 
What about you, Matt? 

907
00:45:52,896 --> 00:45:56,840
I I like the Hyperboost Edge. 
If anybody's watched my video 

908
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,115
review about them. 
There's just something I really 

909
00:45:59,115 --> 00:46:01,985
don't like, and that's when you 
have 45 millimeters stack 

910
00:46:01,985 --> 00:46:03,895
height, don't do a posterior 
flare. 

911
00:46:03,895 --> 00:46:07,903
So I like the shoe. 
I'm a heel striker, I don't like

912
00:46:07,903 --> 00:46:10,240
the heel, it it causes me 
issues. 

913
00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:13,352
Everything else about that, the 
shoe, I think, is great. 

914
00:46:13,352 --> 00:46:15,840
The upper actually did halfway 
decent for me. 

915
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,799
Didn't cause me as much issues 
as I would have expected. 

916
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,582
But just that heel bevel is 
borderline unacceptable at this 

917
00:46:22,582 --> 00:46:24,070
point. 
I know that they're gonna fix 

918
00:46:24,070 --> 00:46:25,920
that in the next version, so I 
have total faith. 

919
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:29,352
And for that reason, because I'm
really enjoying the Slow Cush, 

920
00:46:29,352 --> 00:46:32,159
I'm gonna have to go with ASICS.
All right. 

921
00:46:32,159 --> 00:46:34,521
I don't have to vote. 
That makes it easy. 

922
00:46:34,521 --> 00:46:36,879
All right, our next battle. 
What would you say? 

923
00:46:37,039 --> 00:46:39,229
I mean, I don't like the Slow 
Cush that much. 

924
00:46:39,229 --> 00:46:41,199
It's too soft, so it just 
bothers my foot. 

925
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:45,448
So knowing Yeah, since it's more
firm, I'm like firm and bouncy, 

926
00:46:45,448 --> 00:46:47,919
that sounds like what I would 
want. 

927
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,716
But again, my vote doesn't 
matter and I didn't get to test 

928
00:46:50,716 --> 00:46:52,807
the shoe. 
So that's so I shouldn't vote on

929
00:46:52,807 --> 00:46:54,864
that. 
That makes me think I should 

930
00:46:54,864 --> 00:46:57,104
actually do the hundred mile 
review of this shoe because 

931
00:46:57,104 --> 00:46:59,540
yeah, I've got some very 
interesting thoughts as this 

932
00:46:59,540 --> 00:47:01,693
continues on. 
So on the Slow Cush. 

933
00:47:01,693 --> 00:47:04,894
Yeah. 
Alright, our next is between the

934
00:47:04,894 --> 00:47:08,214
Hoka Skyward X2 and the Saucony 
Paramount Max. 

935
00:47:08,214 --> 00:47:11,119
Oh man. 
I'll kick this one off. 

936
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:13,608
I don't have the Skyward X2 on 
me. 

937
00:47:13,608 --> 00:47:17,119
I kept it over there. 
But for me this is an easy pick.

938
00:47:17,119 --> 00:47:20,480
I found the Skyward X2 with 
cause that one's plated. 

939
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,989
And so with the plate it just 
felt too stiff and the rocker 

940
00:47:24,989 --> 00:47:28,090
didn't line up for me. 
And I think that that's 

941
00:47:28,090 --> 00:47:30,828
potentially a problem, even 
though that these shoes, as we 

942
00:47:30,828 --> 00:47:33,917
talked about, are stiffer 
because they just have so much 

943
00:47:33,917 --> 00:47:36,365
foam. 
They still do flex a little bit.

944
00:47:36,365 --> 00:47:39,119
And with that carbon plate, it 
just does not. 

945
00:47:39,119 --> 00:47:45,440
And so I I and I also really 
enjoy Incredirun on this shoe. 

946
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:49,952
When I'm running too slow, it 
feels a little wobbly, but when 

947
00:47:49,952 --> 00:47:54,160
I'm in rhythm, even just like 
easy pace, but just like 

948
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:58,560
slightly up from that. 
I really like the rhythm of this

949
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,360
shoe. 
So I I'm going Paramount Max. 

950
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,109
David. 
Okay, so I was curious to see if

951
00:48:04,109 --> 00:48:06,746
I got a vote or not. 
I'm Skyward X2. 

952
00:48:06,746 --> 00:48:09,058
Easy. 
For me, I think I like the 

953
00:48:09,058 --> 00:48:11,336
stiffness of the platform. 
I like the dual layer. 

954
00:48:11,336 --> 00:48:13,360
Is there PEBA and EVA or double 
PEBA? 

955
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:15,053
I can't remember. 
It's PEBA, EVA. 

956
00:48:15,053 --> 00:48:17,027
Yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, with the carbon plate. 

957
00:48:17,027 --> 00:48:20,604
I like the structure to it. 
The rocker agrees with me much 

958
00:48:20,604 --> 00:48:22,799
more. 
I can just settle into it. 

959
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:27,885
The thing with the Incredirun 
and the Para- and the Paramount.

960
00:48:27,885 --> 00:48:31,119
Yeah, you got it. 
Oh my gosh. 

961
00:48:31,119 --> 00:48:35,520
Try not to get that confused 
with the CBS streaming platform.

962
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:37,870
Yeah. 
The foam is almost just too 

963
00:48:37,870 --> 00:48:41,435
bouncy for me at easy paces. 
Like it feels like too 

964
00:48:41,435 --> 00:48:43,284
trampoline-y. 
Like I'm like sinking into it. 

965
00:48:43,284 --> 00:48:46,827
I'm coming out like I just can't
find a good rhythm in that shoe.

966
00:48:46,827 --> 00:48:48,955
I can appreciate it. 
I think there are people out 

967
00:48:48,955 --> 00:48:51,175
there that will like it, but 
it's just simply too much for 

968
00:48:51,175 --> 00:48:53,280
me. 
Where like let's say the Saucony

969
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,480
Triumph, the way that shoe is 
oriented, geometry and foam 

970
00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:00,176
wise, just lines up so much 
better for me than the Paramount

971
00:49:00,176 --> 00:49:02,377
Max. 
So not that you guys are asking 

972
00:49:02,377 --> 00:49:05,889
my opinions on the Triumph, but 
like I I know what you're saying

973
00:49:05,889 --> 00:49:09,003
though, because that's like 
that's a good comp because I 

974
00:49:09,003 --> 00:49:12,159
can't handle that shoe. 
So I don't like the Triumph. 

975
00:49:12,159 --> 00:49:17,151
It's too s too soft for me. 
Whereas this one, you get you 

976
00:49:17,151 --> 00:49:19,839
get trampoline soft, but not 
squishy soft. 

977
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,703
Anyway, that's not what we're 
talking about. 

978
00:49:22,703 --> 00:49:26,375
You're right. 
Yeah, Skyward X2, if I wasn't if

979
00:49:26,375 --> 00:49:29,842
I wasn't clear. 
So I'm actually gonna have to 

980
00:49:29,842 --> 00:49:32,777
agree with David on this. 
Where I found the Paramount Max 

981
00:49:32,777 --> 00:49:36,288
just too and I again I agree. 
I think people are gonna love 

982
00:49:36,288 --> 00:49:38,480
this shoe. 
I just found it too bouncy. 

983
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:41,647
And I think some of the things 
we talked about concerns like I 

984
00:49:41,647 --> 00:49:44,320
am be am too stiff after running
in it or during. 

985
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:46,859
And I can feel that. 
So that that's just too much. 

986
00:49:46,859 --> 00:49:49,159
For me, I like the rocker with 
the Skyward X. 

987
00:49:49,159 --> 00:49:51,625
It worked really well. 
It's very stable neutral with 

988
00:49:51,625 --> 00:49:55,279
the way the way the midsole sets
up and the rocker is just right.

989
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,799
Is it a little bit stiffer? 
The rock, the forefoot rocker's 

990
00:49:57,799 --> 00:50:00,079
off just a little bit, and I can
feel that. 

991
00:50:00,079 --> 00:50:02,995
And I don't I don't think they 
necessarily needed a plate 

992
00:50:02,995 --> 00:50:06,288
because there's so much midsole.
Maybe they need to do it to hold

993
00:50:06,288 --> 00:50:08,748
up. 
But I had I got 100 miles on the

994
00:50:08,748 --> 00:50:11,199
Skyward X2, so that should kind 
of speak to it. 

995
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,700
So that I'm gonna have to go 
with this one. 

996
00:50:14,700 --> 00:50:16,799
Alright. 
So Skyward X2 moving on. 

997
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:22,312
Our last one of the first round 
is the MagMax 2 from Puma. 

998
00:50:22,312 --> 00:50:25,279
And the On Cloud Monster Hyper 
3. 

999
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:29,080
This is one that David did not 
test the MagMax, so he, if we 

1000
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,519
need it, he'll be coming in for 
our tiebreak. 

1001
00:50:31,519 --> 00:50:34,015
Matt, which one are you picking?
Sorry Casey. 

1002
00:50:34,015 --> 00:50:37,759
I'm gonna have to go with the On
Cloud Monster Hyper 3. 

1003
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,820
Just from a stability 
standpoint, versatility 

1004
00:50:40,820 --> 00:50:45,920
standpoint, and just overall 
like the upper is is fantastic. 

1005
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,971
And it's not saying that the 
MagMax 2 isn't. 

1006
00:50:48,971 --> 00:50:53,039
I just like the versatility and 
stability better in the On shoe.

1007
00:50:53,039 --> 00:50:55,823
And again, another shoe that I 
have well over a hundred miles 

1008
00:50:55,823 --> 00:50:58,667
in that I've really really 
enjoyed so I just like it and 

1009
00:50:58,667 --> 00:51:02,123
again to Nathan's point I it's 
just a little bit firmer and I I

1010
00:51:02,123 --> 00:51:05,520
like that I like a little bit 
firmer snappier shoe and this 

1011
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:07,440
fits that really, really well. 
Yeah. 

1012
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,000
I like both of these shoes a 
lot. 

1013
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:14,079
I've gotten multiple long runs 
in on both of these shoes. 

1014
00:51:14,079 --> 00:51:17,310
They both run on the slightly 
firmer end in comparison to the 

1015
00:51:17,310 --> 00:51:20,000
other models that we've listed 
so far in this bracket. 

1016
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:25,955
That said, I the I have probably
250 to 300 miles in the On Cloud

1017
00:51:25,955 --> 00:51:29,279
Monster Hyper. 
I I run in this shoe a lot. 

1018
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,260
When I'm when I'm needing to 
just like be safe and 

1019
00:51:32,260 --> 00:51:34,420
comfortable. 
This is the shoe I'm pulling out

1020
00:51:34,420 --> 00:51:37,264
this year. 
So I've got a lot of miles in on

1021
00:51:37,264 --> 00:51:40,848
this shoe and it's for a reason 
I love it for long runs, easy 

1022
00:51:40,848 --> 00:51:42,320
runs, everything. 
Rocker's really nice. 

1023
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:46,480
Matt's mad that I haven't done 
like a long term review on the 

1024
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:47,120
shoe. 
Yes. 

1025
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:47,760
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1026
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:51,335
So it it takes the cake for me. 
I think if if they could switch 

1027
00:51:51,335 --> 00:51:54,719
something about the MagMax, it 
would be opening up the toe box.

1028
00:51:54,720 --> 00:51:56,799
It's a little bit narrow, tapers
a bit. 

1029
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:00,860
They should just open that up 
and it would be that much 

1030
00:52:00,860 --> 00:52:03,226
better. 
So David, we don't need your 

1031
00:52:03,226 --> 00:52:06,151
your vote here. 
That's the I also know you like 

1032
00:52:06,151 --> 00:52:08,880
you like the Hyper. 
I like the Hyper a lot. 

1033
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:10,719
It would take a lot for me to 
not choose that. 

1034
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:13,859
But yeah, I all the things you 
guys said, I like the stable 

1035
00:52:13,859 --> 00:52:16,079
frame under it. 
I like the Helion HF on top. 

1036
00:52:16,079 --> 00:52:18,475
I like the geometry. 
I like the upper. 

1037
00:52:18,475 --> 00:52:22,362
It's a solid shoe, so I have a 
feeling it probably still would 

1038
00:52:22,362 --> 00:52:24,112
have won. 
But I don't know. 

1039
00:52:24,112 --> 00:52:26,863
Yep. 
All right, let's blitz through 

1040
00:52:26,863 --> 00:52:30,343
these semifinals and the final. 
The first semifinal is the 

1041
00:52:30,343 --> 00:52:32,914
Vomero Premium against the ASICS
Slow Cush. 

1042
00:52:32,914 --> 00:52:37,785
David, you get to go first. 
I'm gonna go with the ASICS Slow

1043
00:52:37,785 --> 00:52:39,923
Cush. 
I think the ASICS Slow Cush is 

1044
00:52:39,923 --> 00:52:41,687
just a more approachable option 
for me. 

1045
00:52:41,687 --> 00:52:44,804
It makes a little more sense. 
I don't know what the weight is 

1046
00:52:44,804 --> 00:52:47,552
on it, but it's a little bit 
lower, where like the Vomero 

1047
00:52:47,552 --> 00:52:49,092
Premium is like kind of a 
behemoth. 

1048
00:52:49,092 --> 00:52:51,599
I mean it's a lot of shoe. 
It like eleven it's it's like 

1049
00:52:51,599 --> 00:52:52,559
eleven ounces. 
Am I right? 

1050
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:54,669
It might even be close to 
twelve. 

1051
00:52:54,669 --> 00:52:56,269
I think it's like yeah. 
Yeah. 

1052
00:52:56,269 --> 00:52:59,398
Just a lot of shoe. 
I can really feel the weight on 

1053
00:52:59,398 --> 00:53:02,224
longer efforts, even though it 
has a lot of bounce and 

1054
00:53:02,224 --> 00:53:04,538
compliance. 
I think it's a fun conceptual 

1055
00:53:04,538 --> 00:53:08,653
shoe, but I think in terms of 
actual carryover into daily use,

1056
00:53:08,653 --> 00:53:13,380
I would go with the Slow Cush. 
So these are two shoes that 

1057
00:53:13,380 --> 00:53:18,190
would have lost in the first 
round for me, so that's kind of 

1058
00:53:18,190 --> 00:53:21,023
funny. 
But I I I would actually pick 

1059
00:53:21,023 --> 00:53:23,899
the Vomero Premium. 
I've tried to get long runs in 

1060
00:53:23,899 --> 00:53:26,239
in the Slow Cush and my foot 
hurts after. 

1061
00:53:26,240 --> 00:53:29,412
So that's kind of a deal breaker
for me, just with the softness 

1062
00:53:29,412 --> 00:53:32,620
of the foam and the little bit 
of flexibility that comes in 

1063
00:53:32,620 --> 00:53:35,228
there. 
Like I said, I can't I don't 

1064
00:53:35,228 --> 00:53:39,110
enjoy super long runs in the 
Vomero Premium, but I can do 

1065
00:53:39,110 --> 00:53:42,627
them without problems. 
And so I I'm going with that 

1066
00:53:42,627 --> 00:53:45,532
one. 
Matt, what would you pick if you

1067
00:53:45,532 --> 00:53:48,799
if your vote mattered? 
Oh no, it does matter. 

1068
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,635
You're breaking the tie. 
What am I talking about? 

1069
00:53:51,635 --> 00:53:53,519
Yeah. 
I'm going ASICS Slow Cush. 

1070
00:53:53,519 --> 00:53:55,760
Again, I can appreciate the 
Vomero Premium. 

1071
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,695
It is just too much. 
It's kind of like the Paramount 

1072
00:53:58,695 --> 00:54:01,359
Max where people that like that 
kind of shoe, you like it. 

1073
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:05,308
For me, again, the Slow Cush is 
a little bit more it just feels 

1074
00:54:05,308 --> 00:54:08,325
a little bit quote unquote 
normal and so I I've done lots 

1075
00:54:08,325 --> 00:54:11,039
of long runs in that shoe and 
I've liked it where it doesn't 

1076
00:54:11,039 --> 00:54:13,873
feel like I again I'm not 
getting too weirdly stiff about 

1077
00:54:13,873 --> 00:54:16,564
throwing my mechanics off. 
It rolls nicely offload my 

1078
00:54:16,564 --> 00:54:20,432
Achilles without being weird. 
Is it losing its bounce as we go

1079
00:54:20,432 --> 00:54:22,770
on? 
Yeah, it is, but feels more 

1080
00:54:22,770 --> 00:54:24,440
normal. 
So it fits great. 

1081
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:25,440
Good. 
All right. 

1082
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:30,079
Skyward X2 from Hoka or the On 
Cloud Monster Hyper 3. 

1083
00:54:30,559 --> 00:54:33,847
I'll go first and I'm just gonna
I mean I feel like I told my 

1084
00:54:33,847 --> 00:54:36,664
favorite of the whole thing, and
it's On Cloud Monster Hyper 3. 

1085
00:54:36,664 --> 00:54:39,360
I I run everything in this shoe.
So that's my pick. 

1086
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:43,116
And I didn't like the Skyward 
X2, so that's mine's obvious. 

1087
00:54:43,116 --> 00:54:46,162
David, what about you? 
You know, it's a close one, but 

1088
00:54:46,162 --> 00:54:47,760
I'm gonna go Cloud Monster Hyper
3. 

1089
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:51,599
I think I just like it more for 
daily use and doing things. 

1090
00:54:51,599 --> 00:54:56,177
But if I had to do a third place
between like Vomero Premium and 

1091
00:54:56,177 --> 00:54:59,119
Skyward X2, I probably would go 
with Skyward X2. 

1092
00:54:59,599 --> 00:55:01,735
Just like I think it's a good 
shoe. 

1093
00:55:01,735 --> 00:55:04,936
It's just a bad matchup. 
I like the I like the Cloud 

1094
00:55:04,936 --> 00:55:07,428
Monster Hyper 3 more. 
Same for you, Matt. 

1095
00:55:07,428 --> 00:55:08,140
Agreed. 
Alright. 

1096
00:55:08,140 --> 00:55:11,868
We're on our last one. 
So now it's either the ASICS 

1097
00:55:11,868 --> 00:55:14,784
Slow Cush or the On Cloud 
Monster Hyper 3. 

1098
00:55:14,784 --> 00:55:24,960
Matt, you can start. 
Monster Hyper 3 is an easy win. 

1099
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,588
I think literally everything, 
the durability, the versatility,

1100
00:55:28,588 --> 00:55:32,458
the fit, the stability and 
structure, just everything I 

1101
00:55:32,458 --> 00:55:36,287
would want, just hit it really, 
really nicely in this shoe. 

1102
00:55:36,287 --> 00:55:39,483
It comes off stable. 
Yes, it's expensive, but it can 

1103
00:55:39,483 --> 00:55:41,589
handle a lot and it can do a 
lot. 

1104
00:55:41,589 --> 00:55:43,920
And I'm the kind of person that 
I want versatility. 

1105
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:45,889
So I want to be able to do an 
up-tempo stuff. 

1106
00:55:45,889 --> 00:55:47,679
I want to be able to do easy in 
it. 

1107
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:51,920
And so that the On Cloud Monster
Hyper 3 really hits that for me.

1108
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:56,106
I could do long runs, I can do 
easy runs, I can do workouts. 

1109
00:55:56,106 --> 00:55:57,600
I want one shoe. 
Yeah. 

1110
00:55:57,599 --> 00:56:00,893
Hypothetically though, let's say
you had absolutely zero concern 

1111
00:56:00,893 --> 00:56:07,655
for pace in your life. 
I'd probably still choose the On

1112
00:56:07,655 --> 00:56:11,565
Cloud Monster Hyper 3 because 
it's the the setup and the 

1113
00:56:11,565 --> 00:56:13,880
stability for me is is is really
good. 

1114
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:15,280
Yeah. 
I think that's fair. 

1115
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:17,978
I was just curious. 
You know, just taking 

1116
00:56:17,978 --> 00:56:19,648
versatility off the table. 
Yep. 

1117
00:56:19,648 --> 00:56:21,986
Yep. 
It the Slow Cush is not 

1118
00:56:21,986 --> 00:56:24,455
unstable. 
Like I think the s the wide 

1119
00:56:24,455 --> 00:56:27,199
base, the way it's a little bit 
laterally biased. 

1120
00:56:27,199 --> 00:56:30,855
But which I didn't like. 
Yeah, the the Cloud Monster 

1121
00:56:30,855 --> 00:56:35,976
Hyper 3 wins just because it 
keeps things so centered so well

1122
00:56:35,976 --> 00:56:37,680
without being weird. 
David? 

1123
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:39,199
I'm gonna actually have to 
agree. 

1124
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,120
I think it's a unanimous 
decision here between the three 

1125
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:45,623
of us On Cloud Monster Hyper 3. 
I really like the Slow Cush. 

1126
00:56:45,623 --> 00:56:48,547
I feel like it embodies what you
want the premium kind of 

1127
00:56:48,547 --> 00:56:51,631
supermax trainer to be. 
Obviously, it made it to the 

1128
00:56:51,631 --> 00:56:55,205
final of this matchup. 
I just again I tend to like 

1129
00:56:55,205 --> 00:56:58,604
slightly firmer rides too, you 
know, and I actually kind of 

1130
00:56:58,604 --> 00:57:01,790
like that CloudTec underneath. 
And then having that like a 

1131
00:57:01,790 --> 00:57:04,383
little bit softer, bouncier 
Helion HF on top. 

1132
00:57:04,383 --> 00:57:07,682
Upper fits me well. 
I can just kind of fall into 

1133
00:57:07,682 --> 00:57:10,824
rhythm really easily in the 
Cloud Monster Hyper 3, even with

1134
00:57:10,824 --> 00:57:12,589
no regards for versatility for 
me. 

1135
00:57:12,589 --> 00:57:16,213
You know, I've never actually 
wanted to run fast in my Cloud 

1136
00:57:16,213 --> 00:57:18,962
Monster Hyper 3s. 
This is something that I use 

1137
00:57:18,962 --> 00:57:21,306
more for just easy running or 
long runs. 

1138
00:57:21,306 --> 00:57:23,410
Yeah. 
So yeah, I I'm gonna go Cloud 

1139
00:57:23,410 --> 00:57:25,990
Monster Hyper 3. 
I just like that little bit of 

1140
00:57:25,990 --> 00:57:28,427
guidance a little bit more. 
But if you want that 

1141
00:57:28,427 --> 00:57:31,175
marshmallowy, like with a little
bit of bounce, the Slow Cush is 

1142
00:57:31,175 --> 00:57:33,570
gonna win in that fight. 
So depending on what you 

1143
00:57:33,570 --> 00:57:36,559
personally want, I think is what
it's gonna come down to there. 

1144
00:57:36,559 --> 00:57:39,331
But I I'm gonna go Cloud Monster
Hyper 3. 

1145
00:57:39,331 --> 00:57:41,487
Yep. 
I don't have much to add. 

1146
00:57:41,487 --> 00:57:46,080
Y'all know my vote. 
I voted against the Slow Cush 

1147
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:50,560
twice. 
Well we we would love to hear 

1148
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:54,480
what people's experiences are in
these shoes. 

1149
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:57,060
Again, do you think that any of 
these shoes didn't belong in 

1150
00:57:57,060 --> 00:57:59,583
this conversation or do you 
think there's other ones that do

1151
00:57:59,583 --> 00:58:02,135
belong in the conversation? 
We'd also love to hear your 

1152
00:58:02,135 --> 00:58:03,920
thoughts on long-term use of 
these shoes. 

1153
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:05,264
Is the category that's gonna 
stick? 

1154
00:58:05,264 --> 00:58:07,279
Is it gonna be a flash in the 
pan? 

1155
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:10,412
Please share what your thoughts 
are with us and we're thankful 

1156
00:58:10,412 --> 00:58:12,400
that you joined us for this 
conversation.