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Hey, there everyone and welcome 
to the doctors of running 

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podcast, where we a group of 
doctors to physical therapy, 

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discuss the Art and Science of 
running and the stuff that we 

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put on our feet. 
Very exciting day. 

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Today, we have a pact round 
Table with Andrea David. 

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Matthew and myself. 
We have a full four people ready

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to talk? 
We're it's fun. 

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We're actually recording on 
Memorial Day and usually our 

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schedules, don't line up to do 
this but we're recording midday 

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on a Monday and we're all 
together. 

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So everybody thanks for joining 
because this should be a lot of 

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fun to talk with everybody 
together. 

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Doesn't happen a lot. 
So what we're going to be doing 

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is actually a really fun topic 
and it's one that is about a 

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specific population of people. 
But at the same time, the 

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concepts that come into this 
also apply to, when you are 

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changing, the type of stimulus 
that's being put on your body. 

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So the topic of the day is 
talking about youth athletes, 

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what implications are there 
regarding Sports specialization,

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especially in the climate right 
now, that pushes kids to 

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specialize in sports. 
Very, very early. 

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We're going to talk about what 
the Science says, behind the 

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risks and the potential 
benefits. 

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Spoiler alert lot more risks 
behind that. 

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We're also going to be talking 
about than high school training 

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and running looking at profile 
risks of injuries based on your 

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age and how that differs from 
being a youth athlete, all the 

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way up to Masters Runners. 
And then we're going to be 

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talking about Collegiate running
as well. 

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And just some of the are drawing
from our own personal 

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experiences of being high school
and college athletes, as well as

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for someone like myself, who 
didn't run in high. 

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Or college competitively. 
What's it like for me, working 

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clinically with people. 
So if you are a parent, if you 

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are a coach, if you are somebody
who knows kids who are in the 

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running sphere or if you know a 
running coach like your high 

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school coach, this would be a 
great episode to share with them

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to just hear some thoughts about
what the evidence actually says 

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about. 
What is good for your athletes 

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to help them be healthy and 
actually perform their best. 

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Because I know that that's 
important to a lot of people, 

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but they get lost in translation
when you try to Just push your 

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hardest. 
So here we go. 

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First are subjective for the 
week is, if you were looking 

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back at your younger self, what 
advice would you give to 

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yourself in regards to running? 
So, I do want to pose this to 

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you, all David will start with 
you if you were looking back at 

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your younger self, maybe your 
high school self. 

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What sort of advice would you 
give yourself now? 

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Yeah, looking back on things. 
I think I did a pretty good job 

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of having fun being relaxed. 
And and enjoying the experience 

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up until my senior year. 
And so I started getting pretty 

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decent. 
I think my, I think, my junior 

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year. 
I think I ran, like, I don't 

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know, 424. 
I think in the mile and like, I 

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brought I was consistently under
10. 

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I was running 15, 30-ish, 
probably in cross-country and so

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things were starting to click, 
you know, made all league for 

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the first time and then going 
into senior year, I I just 

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remember like I kind of put a 
little bit of pressure on 

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myself, and I felt like this 
need to, like, come out and run 

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fast from the get-go and that 
worked for cross for about half 

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of the season. 
And while I still won the league

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championship that year, but I 
didn't, I didn't do as well into

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the CIF rounds, you know, as I 
would have liked to have done. 

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And I remember I had a lot of, I
don't know. 

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At that time. 
I think the pressure led to 

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Security and I started running 
with people like not doing my 

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race, not executing how I wanted
to do things and I started 

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playing into the bigger circle 
like well if they're going to 

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make I know they're going to 
make it so if I just run with 

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them and I'll make it but they 
have their own strengths. 

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I have my own strength and I 
didn't do that as well. 

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And I didn't stay true to myself
and I think a lot of that came 

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with putting pressure 
individually on myself, like, no

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one put that pressure on me, you
know that, well it's all 

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personal pressure. 
I put on myself. 

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Myself and I think that did leak
into track. 

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I did have some injuries, I 
didn't run as well. 

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My senior year as I did. 
My junior year on the track, but

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I think just continuing to relax
and enjoy and have fun. 

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I think there is also a little 
bit of pressure on me as well. 

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We'll talk more about this stuff
later but I didn't really come 

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from a running family. 
I come from a baseball family, 

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and I played baseball all the 
way up into high school at every

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single intention of playing 
baseball. 

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And the really, the only reason 
why I started running in high 

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school was so that I could just 
get in shape for baseball. 

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That was kind of like how that 
started and you have to be in 

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shape for just general. 
Yeah, just good shave right? 

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If you're just kidding. 
Yeah, I don't know. 

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But I'm kidding. 
Sorry baseball. 

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But then spring season came 
around and I decided to stick 

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with it and it was a big 
decision. 

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So I think I felt like an extra 
amount of pressure like well I 

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left the sport that I played my 
whole life for this. 

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This one and so I should 
probably do pretty good in this 

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one, and I think it worked up 
until a certain point. 

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And then it kind of came didn't 
come crashing down, but it could

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have been smoother. 
And I think I could have enjoyed

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that last year a little bit 
more. 

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Yeah, Andrea. 
What about you? 

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Hmm. 
Well, I've been running like 

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almost my whole life. 
Like I started doing like races 

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with my dad, when I was 45. 
So by the time I was in sixth 

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grade, I was actually Training, 
what the high school team mostly

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because of where I was going to 
school. 

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At the time, they like, Junior 
High kids trained with a high 

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schoolers and oh, sure. 
You know, they kind of gave me 

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as a sixth grader permission to 
run with them. 

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So I was really fast, really 
young and you know, I did well 

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in a races and I think as I got 
older like, even I think 

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probably like freshman year of 
high school. 

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Same thing. 
Like you just put a lot of 

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pressure on your Yourself to 
continue to place the way that 

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you did when you were younger 
but maybe you don't realize 

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that. 
Oh, now you're racing against 

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like 18 year olds and maybe you 
shouldn't have the same 

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expectations that you did when 
you were younger. 

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So now, I wish I hadn't put so 
much pressure on myself, I 

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definitely burned out. 
I actually took a year off of 

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running my junior year and swam 
instead just because I needed a 

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break from it. 
So And it wasn't, like, anyone 

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else was putting pressure on me.
But just, it's so easy to put 

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pressure on yourself to do. 
Well, I wish that I had known 

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how to deal with that better. 
And then the other thing, I 

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really wish that I had done 
better, or had more information 

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about was just nutrition. 
Like, I don't remember eating 

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anything like before practice 
ever, and, you know, we were 

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running pretty long workouts. 
Both for track and cross-country

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like, I just wonder how much 
different like my response to 

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training would have been if I 
was properly fueled or like, had

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any idea what I was doing with 
regards to like recovery or 

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nutrition? 
I definitely remember that. 

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We always ran our easy runs way 
too fast and same thing like I 

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know now how important that is? 
But back then we just went out 

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and ran like whatever Pace we 
wanted to run. 

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So I hope This episode, we can 
get some of that information to 

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parents and coaches, and maybe 
the few high schoolers that 

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listen to this podcast and help 
him part our wisdom on them. 

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So they don't make the same 
mistakes that we did. 

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Yeah. 
I'll go next and then met you 

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can follow me. 
I, like I said, I'd have not, I 

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did not run in high school but 
wrestling was my sport from the 

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time. 
I could stand up. 

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My dad put a singlet on me. 
He was the he was the head 

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wrestling coach. 
And so I grew up in that and 

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similar to you Andrea I was 
practicing with the high school 

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team. 
I mean I was practicing with 

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them when I was in like first 
and second grade but I was 

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actually wrestling like with 
them. 

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You know when I was a little bit
older and heavy enough to kind 

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of do that, but I would say 
similar to both of you Common 

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Thread that scum has been that 
level of pressure Runnings 

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unique in that it's pretty 
objective. 

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That if you run a certain time, 
you can win the race. 

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And if you're like 20 seconds, 
slower than that, you're 

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probably. 
Not going to go win the race. 

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And so you have this kind of 
like metric for yourself 

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wrestling in some ways is 
similar like, there's no guess 

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on who won. 
There's no like who's the better

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soccer player on the, on the 
pitch, you either beat the guy 

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on the mat, or you don't that 
day. 

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And I think what I would do is I
would dig into all of the 

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rankings that the Wisconsin. 
You know, there was this website

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that put all the rankings and 
then I would put it in my head 

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where I lined up with these 
people and if they had some 

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arbitrary ranking, from some 
random guy that meant a lot to 

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me. 
And it, It would really change 

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who I was and how confident I 
would be going out there similar

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to what you were talking about 
David is like I wrestled to 

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them. 
I didn't wrestle as myself and 

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so I think in a similar way I 
would say figure out who I was 

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and just block out the noise and
and just go enjoy the sport and 

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have fun with it. 
Matt, what about you? 

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I would probably have an 
extended discussion with myself 

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on several things that all of 
you have talked about. 

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I think one of the big things 
would be how the body actually 

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adapts to training. 
That one of the biggest, I mean,

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I was very similar to not quite 
Nathan, but almost where you 

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were right was running early in 
like high school, probably 

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sophomore years. 
I really started, but I wasn't 

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competitive. 
I didn't know what that was and 

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00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:45,000
I remember coming to my coach or
my the high school cross-country

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coach was my bio teacher. 
I'm running like 3 hours a day 

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and I have a, I think a stress 
fracture. 

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00:10:49,900 --> 00:10:52,100
Do you have any idea what it 
should do and he's like, do you 

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00:10:52,100 --> 00:10:54,500
know what cross country is and 
I'm like, what's that? 

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So I kind of like was a late 
start and was very aggressive in

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my training because I really was
high school and then college and

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00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,200
aggressively ramp things up to 
the point where I thought that 

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the only way to get faster was 
Run, 100 miles a week and I 

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00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:13,000
would Echo what David and Andrea
said in terms of the pressure 

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that I put on myself and then 
definitely nutrition sleep 

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understanding how the body 
actually adapts to training is 

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the probably the biggest thing I
would have talked about, I would

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have talked and give an advice 
on making sure your Well rounded

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in terms of understanding the 
importance of doing strength 

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training, the importance of 
balancing, the pace in your easy

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run and helping helping my 
younger self understand kind of 

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a longer-term mindset. 
Instead of going, well, I'm 

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going to run 100 miles a week 
right now every single time do 

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all the stuff is like now. 
Like what what is this? 

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00:11:44,100 --> 00:11:45,900
Look like five ten years from 
now. 

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What are your goals and what, 
how realistic are those? 

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00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:52,500
And how do you actually attain 
those from a appropriate smart 

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00:11:52,500 --> 00:11:55,100
training perspective? 
Now granted my stupid trainings.

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What? 
Got it. 

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Got me interested in PT because 
I was like well I'm trying to 

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like a moron. 
I wonder if I could try to keep 

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myself healthy and I don't find 
it. 

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Fortunately or unfortunately was
able to do that and continue 

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training at a way higher level 
than I should have been. 

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But now years later, the 
understanding how long the body 

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takes to really adapt why 
nutrition sleep is important. 

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I wish I had known that when I 
was younger, but hindsight is 

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20/20. 
So again, to reiterate, what 

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does Smart training mean? 
Is probably the biggest thing. 

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I would sit down and talk to my 
younger self about. 

235
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Oh yeah, just add one more thing
into this. 

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I think looking back on things 
as well. 

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Is that component of it being 
fun? 

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It's like everything is fun 
until it isn't. 

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When things start getting more 
serious in the pressure starts, 

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ramping up and all that. 
It's like you kind of have to 

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think about like, why am I doing
this in the first place? 

242
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And it's like, oh, I was having 
fun doing this. 

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Like, I should enjoy this, I 
should have fun. 

244
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Yeah, and I think just having 
that lighter, Philosophy to 

245
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going into some of those races. 
Those were thinking back on it. 

246
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Those are all my best races. 
It wasn't the races in. 

247
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I was headstrong going into 
them. 

248
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Like I'm going to do this this 
and this. 

249
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So just valuing the experience 
in fun. 

250
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So when you kind of let you let 
go and you go just enjoy what 

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the sport is for what it is. 
Great well what we're going to 

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do next, we're going to move 
into discussions on what are the

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impacts of early Sports 
specialization and to do that 

254
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I'd also before we start the 
full conversation is just to 

255
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remind you all where we're 
coming from. 

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00:13:32,100 --> 00:13:34,600
So all of us are doctors to 
physical therapy. 

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We have a background in a lot. 
Of Rehabilitation science in 

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like pathology and kind of 
epidemiology of different types 

259
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of injuries. 
And so that's where we sit, 

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00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,300
that's the perspective that we 
bring to the conversation. 

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00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,300
And so what we're going to be 
able to do is bring you through 

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00:13:52,300 --> 00:13:54,400
what the literature says about 
this topic. 

263
00:13:54,500 --> 00:13:57,400
And then just try to give some 
practical tips and some things 

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that you can think about if you 
are, if you are one of these 

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athletes or you coach these 
athletes or, you know, one of 

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these athletes just practical 
ways to take this knowledge and 

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00:14:06,500 --> 00:14:09,400
And make it useful. 
So first, I'm going to kick it 

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00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:13,100
over to Andrea and I'm going to 
just have you if you can just 

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00:14:13,100 --> 00:14:16,600
give us an idea of when we say 
sport specialization and we put 

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00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,100
the tag early on it. 
Can you just give us a kind of 

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00:14:19,100 --> 00:14:24,500
an idea of what that means? 
So, early Sports specialization 

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00:14:24,500 --> 00:14:28,400
means and athletes participating
in just one sport nearly year 

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00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:32,900
round off and on multiple teams 
and I think we all can think of 

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00:14:32,900 --> 00:14:37,400
a lot of patients and maybe 
friends whose kids do this. 

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00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:42,800
And there are a variety of 
reasons why parents or kids 

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00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,700
might feel the need to 
specialize early in a sport. 

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00:14:45,700 --> 00:14:49,800
There's a lot of pressure to you
know get into college, get a 

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00:14:49,808 --> 00:14:54,100
scholarship. 
GoPro whatever. 

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00:14:54,100 --> 00:14:59,600
But there's a lot of evidence 
that suggests that athletes, who

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00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,300
end up getting College 
scholarships and athletes, who 

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00:15:02,300 --> 00:15:06,500
end up going professional in 
their sport, actually waited 

282
00:15:06,500 --> 00:15:10,800
longer to specialize in that 
particular Sport AS compared to 

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00:15:10,900 --> 00:15:15,000
people who do not get a college 
scholarship, or go professional 

284
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,300
the American Academy of 
Pediatrics has actually really 

285
00:15:20,300 --> 00:15:23,800
some really helpful. 
Guidelines regarding early 

286
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:28,300
Sports specialization, and they 
really emphasize that if 

287
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:32,500
somebody is going to specialize 
in one sport, it should be done 

288
00:15:32,500 --> 00:15:35,400
later, which they term like late
adolescent. 

289
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,700
So, like around age, 15 or 16. 
Of course, that varies, 

290
00:15:39,700 --> 00:15:43,900
depending on the individual. 
And they recommend those. 

291
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,600
Not only because it's better for
the individual in terms of 

292
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,500
health, but it actually may lead
to a higher chance of that. 

293
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:55,600
Leet accomplishing their goals 
of getting a college scholarship

294
00:15:55,600 --> 00:16:01,400
or racing professionally. 
It's a huge. 

295
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:05,000
It's a is very countercultural 
to think about doing that right 

296
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:09,400
now, in the current way that 
Athletics work, because at least

297
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,500
in our town here, if you're 
going to do baseball, starting 

298
00:16:12,500 --> 00:16:16,100
at age 6, they start doing kind 
of skills assessments and they 

299
00:16:16,100 --> 00:16:20,300
grade you based off of how well,
you can ground the ball, how far

300
00:16:20,300 --> 00:16:22,900
you can throw it, how you hit 
it, and then they start getting 

301
00:16:22,900 --> 00:16:24,900
you involved in these winter 
programming. 

302
00:16:24,900 --> 00:16:26,800
Some spring program. 
He's and then some herbal all 

303
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:31,200
and then stuff in the fall. 
So, And it's not different for 

304
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:33,900
for things like running the 
Running Scene in Stevens. 

305
00:16:33,900 --> 00:16:40,200
Point is very uniquely good for 
especially for just like where 

306
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,100
we are the coaches, who are 
here. 

307
00:16:43,100 --> 00:16:46,200
Have been there for 40 years and
they're fantastic. 

308
00:16:46,300 --> 00:16:49,400
I know them really well and so 
the running culture here is 

309
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:53,200
really strong and so I it 
because of that I get to 

310
00:16:53,300 --> 00:16:57,800
interact with and talk to a lot 
of these kids and to take time 

311
00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,200
off when I when I ask them. 
So what Does it look like for 

312
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,000
you? 
What it when you finish the 

313
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:02,100
season? 
What do you do is like they're 

314
00:17:02,100 --> 00:17:05,000
like well I take a week off. 
Yeah, I take time off. 

315
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:06,900
I take a week off, I'm like, 
okay. 

316
00:17:06,900 --> 00:17:08,400
And then what do you do? 
And they're like, yeah, then I'm

317
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,900
running 50 miles a week, still 
through the winter, and through 

318
00:17:10,900 --> 00:17:14,599
the summer between track and 
cross country. 

319
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:19,000
And so what you know you talked 
about a majority of the years 

320
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,900
that Sports specialization and 
in a lot of the studies that 

321
00:17:21,900 --> 00:17:24,400
look at this is when special 
specialized errs are coined. 

322
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,200
As people who perform their 
sport more than nine months of 

323
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:34,100
12 out of the And so that means 
that if you're not taking three 

324
00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:39,600
months off for months, off out 
of a year, you're a sport, 

325
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:44,200
specialized, ER, 3 to 4 months 
of time to do something not 

326
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,300
running related. 
That's a long time. 

327
00:17:47,300 --> 00:17:49,400
It's not just a couple weeks to 
just. 

328
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:53,400
Oh, I just got to get fresh 
youth athletes need a lot of 

329
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:57,300
time off. 
And so when we talk about I 

330
00:17:57,300 --> 00:17:58,800
should I should say this one 
statistic. 

331
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,000
This is when I Are with them a 
lot that was in a study. 

332
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:05,300
So these specialized others who 
are in a sport more than nine 

333
00:18:05,300 --> 00:18:07,400
months out of the Year. 
This is Runners specifically 

334
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,800
their 70 percent more likely to 
get injured than those who don't

335
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,900
specialize 70%. 
That's a huge number just based 

336
00:18:15,900 --> 00:18:18,400
off of how often you do that 
sport throughout the year. 

337
00:18:19,100 --> 00:18:23,400
And if there's a runner who 
participates in either soccer, 

338
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,700
or basketball, they reduce their
risk of a bone stress injury by 

339
00:18:27,700 --> 00:18:32,200
60 to 80%, as well. 
And so I kind of want to go into

340
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,700
those sort of statistics about 
why does Sports specialization 

341
00:18:35,700 --> 00:18:39,900
in running lead to such a high 
increase in injury risk? 

342
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,300
Matt, what do you got for us? 
I think you'd actually like kids

343
00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:44,800
kind of the low-hanging fruit 
right here. 

344
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,600
Is that running is one of those 
Sports where there is its high 

345
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,900
level of force and stress 
compared to a lot of other 

346
00:18:51,900 --> 00:18:54,500
sports, right? 
So and it's repetitive and 

347
00:18:54,500 --> 00:18:57,000
that's what's different. 
Whereas there's going to be 

348
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,600
Sports, you're going to get very
high loads, very acutely. 

349
00:18:59,700 --> 00:19:02,100
Lee, but the problem is, they're
often very short, right? 

350
00:19:02,100 --> 00:19:06,000
Be it basketball, be it, 
baseball you have rest periods 

351
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,300
running, you don't really have 
respirators, you might during 

352
00:19:09,300 --> 00:19:12,500
intervals, but you're still 
going for longer periods of time

353
00:19:12,500 --> 00:19:14,900
and they can their, your 
accumulated load. 

354
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,100
I would argue is going to be a 
lot higher the challenge. 

355
00:19:18,100 --> 00:19:20,400
Is that and I think we've talked
about this before on some of the

356
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,000
podcast. 
We talk about bone stress 

357
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,000
injuries and stuff like that. 
Is that bones really only adapt 

358
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,400
for the first couple minutes of 
your running, and then after 

359
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:29,600
that, they don't really get 
much. 

360
00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:30,900
More. 
But the problem is, they need 

361
00:19:30,900 --> 00:19:35,100
time to recover. 
So especially in a in growing 

362
00:19:35,100 --> 00:19:38,900
bodies, that don't have bones, 
that are musculoskeletal systems

363
00:19:38,900 --> 00:19:43,000
that have kind of fully matured 
and don't even have muscular 

364
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:47,400
systems that have fully matured 
taking some time to balance is 

365
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,700
really important and I think 
what people might be panicking 

366
00:19:49,700 --> 00:19:52,500
about and especially if you told
me this is a high school, I 

367
00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:54,900
thought athlete and even a 
college athlete, like, what 

368
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,000
taking time off? 
No. 

369
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,100
It's I think where people are 
getting lost as taking time off.

370
00:19:59,100 --> 00:20:01,800
Can also be I mean doing a 
different sport, right? 

371
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,600
Building what we would look at 
as overall FLOTUS ISM, which I 

372
00:20:05,608 --> 00:20:08,300
think is another conversation 
but it's something that often 

373
00:20:08,300 --> 00:20:11,500
gets lost of what you should be 
doing with the kid, right? 

374
00:20:11,500 --> 00:20:13,200
I'm about ready to have one. 
This is what I'm thinking about 

375
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,200
is, how do you build overall 
lettuces mm, without making them

376
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,500
hate this? 
So that's going to put, his kids

377
00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:26,900
are like a crawling regiment. 
It's like, you know, I'm not, 

378
00:20:27,700 --> 00:20:30,900
I've done Pediatrics both. 
But it's not the rotation and 

379
00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:34,200
then clinically afterwards 
people, I PG students often as a

380
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,000
hey, can I use these motor 
patterns? 

381
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,500
We talked about to make this go 
faster. 

382
00:20:37,500 --> 00:20:39,500
No, you can't. 
The kids going to go at their 

383
00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:43,000
own rate if they're behind, you 
can help them get up to speed 

384
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:44,800
but you can't make them 
superhuman. 

385
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,800
They will do their own thing. 
Yeah, less your Tiger Woods dad 

386
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,000
and you have him watch. 
You hit 500 balls a day in the 

387
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,100
garage you know like for the 
first 10 months of your life. 

388
00:20:55,700 --> 00:20:59,500
Have you guys read his book? 
I have not no I haven't either. 

389
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:01,000
Either. 
But I have a friend who did they

390
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:09,700
told me about it? 
So as we do, other than that 

391
00:21:09,700 --> 00:21:12,100
book, we do read the research 
that we cite before. 

392
00:21:12,100 --> 00:21:14,300
We come on your promise, it's 
true. 

393
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,600
But Matt, you're talking about 
repetitive nature, Andrea, can 

394
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,700
you talk about, you know, 
repetitive or David? 

395
00:21:21,700 --> 00:21:23,100
I guess I can fish has to either
of you. 

396
00:21:23,100 --> 00:21:26,400
Whoever wants to take this 
question, but the idea of some 

397
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:31,100
people when they're like our 
age, where, all Like in our 30s 

398
00:21:31,100 --> 00:21:34,800
40s. 
What you know, what's the 

399
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,700
difference between us running 
you around and high school 

400
00:21:38,700 --> 00:21:42,700
athlete running year-round? 
I can yeah, I was actually going

401
00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:44,600
to add on to some of the stuff 
we're talking about earlier. 

402
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,800
You love to do. 
That was my initial. 

403
00:21:47,100 --> 00:21:50,100
Yeah, we can come back because 
the question I think one thing 

404
00:21:50,100 --> 00:21:54,500
unique as well about the Youth 
Athletic specifically, and 

405
00:21:54,500 --> 00:21:58,200
looking at running is, it's not 
a very variable load either. 

406
00:21:58,700 --> 00:22:01,400
It's very repetitive. 
If nothing changes, it's very 

407
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,400
cyclical. 
It's constant loading. 

408
00:22:03,700 --> 00:22:06,900
When you take a look at 
basketball, baseball football, 

409
00:22:07,300 --> 00:22:08,900
tennis. 
I'm trying to think of like 

410
00:22:08,900 --> 00:22:11,400
pretty much every other main 
sport volleyball, volleyball, 

411
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:17,200
Cross High School athletics, the
movement patterns vary, widely, 

412
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,900
it's not the same thing over and
over and over again. 

413
00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:22,500
You might cut, you might pivot, 
you might stop. 

414
00:22:22,500 --> 00:22:25,400
You'll accelerate, you'll 
decelerate, and you might have 

415
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,100
longer bouts of running as well 
like with soccer things like 

416
00:22:28,100 --> 00:22:32,100
that. 
And so Bone, tendon, muscle 

417
00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:35,000
Health, everything it's getting 
loaded in different ways and 

418
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,800
that's much more of a healthy 
system, for a young body to be 

419
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:43,400
exposed to outside of just the 
repetitive bone stress side of 

420
00:22:43,408 --> 00:22:46,700
things. 
I would also add to that one of 

421
00:22:46,700 --> 00:22:50,200
the benefits of those Sports 
besides running basketball. 

422
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,400
Soccer, softball, baseball. 
The load you're putting on your 

423
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,600
bone is different when we run 
were generally running. 

424
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,600
Forwards in, you know, let's 
say, Road running track and 

425
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,700
field. 
Cross-country you doing a little

426
00:23:03,700 --> 00:23:06,800
bit of lateral movement, but not
a lot, but when you're playing 

427
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:08,400
basketball, when you're playing 
soccer. 

428
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,600
Yeah, you're running a lot, but 
you're also doing a ton of side 

429
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,800
to side movement as well and 
Bone responds to the direction 

430
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:20,100
of stress that you put on it. 
So when if you only run 

431
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,600
forwards, your bone is 
responding to that type of 

432
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,200
stress, but if you're doing a 
lot of cutting, you're stressing

433
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,500
your bone in different 
directions. 

434
00:23:29,700 --> 00:23:32,500
And that's going to help your 
bone build up stronger in 

435
00:23:32,500 --> 00:23:36,900
different planes as compared to 
someone who only runs in a 

436
00:23:36,900 --> 00:23:40,900
forward Direction and that can 
improve your overall bone 

437
00:23:40,900 --> 00:23:44,800
health, but it can also make you
a more well-balanced athlete 

438
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,000
getting back to what? 
Matt was talking about with 

439
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:52,700
General overall athleticism. 
It's not good to just practice 

440
00:23:52,700 --> 00:23:56,700
your sport, that makes you a 
very narrow athlete in terms of 

441
00:23:56,700 --> 00:23:59,900
what you're good at. 
But if you have a huge base Base

442
00:23:59,900 --> 00:24:03,000
in terms of not only 
cardiovascular fitness but 

443
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:09,100
strength proprioception movement
awareness that's going to make 

444
00:24:09,100 --> 00:24:12,000
you better at any physical 
activity that you do. 

445
00:24:12,300 --> 00:24:17,700
So there are benefits to doing 
more than just running beyond 

446
00:24:17,700 --> 00:24:20,300
what we're talking about here 
today, which is in regards to 

447
00:24:20,300 --> 00:24:26,100
youth, even for old, people like
us, varying what we do in terms 

448
00:24:26,100 --> 00:24:29,800
of our activity, is good for our
overall health, and And 

449
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,100
potentially reduce our injury 
risk. 

450
00:24:32,900 --> 00:24:35,400
I feel like a lot of people are 
going to hear you say, old 

451
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,100
people like us and they're gonna
be like, you guys, you Young 

452
00:24:39,100 --> 00:24:43,700
Guns, I thoroughly offended. 
Someone who studies Masters 

453
00:24:43,700 --> 00:24:45,700
Runners and told the 70 year 
old. 

454
00:24:45,700 --> 00:24:48,200
He's still young because he 
looks like he's 40. 

455
00:24:49,300 --> 00:24:51,500
It's crazy. 
He like runs like 12. 

456
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,800
I think the other the other 
thing to just keep in mind is 

457
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,500
that these are, you know, when 
you're in high school you are 

458
00:24:58,500 --> 00:25:02,400
not skeletally mature. 
You still have a lot of bone 

459
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,600
development, Element going on, 
your bones are not at their 

460
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,000
highest density yet. 
That doesn't happen until like 

461
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,700
25 to 30 and so you don't have 
the strongest bones in the world

462
00:25:12,700 --> 00:25:15,000
in the first place. 
And so if you're not doing a 

463
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,700
sport that has would Andrea and 
everyone was talking about what 

464
00:25:17,700 --> 00:25:21,400
that has multi-directional 
loading to promote grown bone 

465
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,000
growth, you're going to be 
doing. 

466
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:28,600
If you do just running, you're 
not building bone health and so 

467
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,300
that kind of goes back to that 
statistic that we talked about 

468
00:25:31,300 --> 00:25:34,800
with such a high Students of 
bone stress injuries in sports, 

469
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,300
specialized errs, who run and 
that's because they're not 

470
00:25:37,300 --> 00:25:40,000
participating in sports. 
That help actually lay down 

471
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,000
bone. 
And there's obviously More Than 

472
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,800
Just Just Sports specialization 
that plays into this injury 

473
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:47,300
risk. 
And we'll go into those things. 

474
00:25:47,500 --> 00:25:51,100
But if you are specializing in 
running, you're not getting the 

475
00:25:51,100 --> 00:25:54,400
loads that help you actually 
schedule skeletally mature. 

476
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:56,900
And at the same time, I hope 
what you don't hear is saying is

477
00:25:56,900 --> 00:26:00,400
don't specialize in running go, 
specialized them soccer that 

478
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,100
also isn't good for you. 
So, Just just keep that in mind 

479
00:26:04,100 --> 00:26:06,000
as well. 
Matt you got something I would 

480
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,000
say. 
Yeah I want to emphasize. 

481
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,800
What you just said is our goal 
is not to scare you away from 

482
00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:12,000
running. 
Obviously the goal is to go. 

483
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,000
All right, we've got a youth 
athlete. 

484
00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:17,100
What is the best way to make 
sure that they're successful, 

485
00:26:17,100 --> 00:26:20,100
enjoy the sport and don't get 
sidelined with injuries because 

486
00:26:20,100 --> 00:26:21,800
no one wants to experience that,
right? 

487
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,600
That's that's kind of the goal 
is, how do we keep you 

488
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,900
consistent? 
Because the best way to improve 

489
00:26:25,900 --> 00:26:29,600
is actually just a consistent 
that said we know there's some 

490
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,500
higher risk of bone stress 
injuries from those who 

491
00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:33,600
specialize in running. 
We also know there's a very 

492
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,500
interesting study that was done 
a couple years ago that they 

493
00:26:36,500 --> 00:26:39,000
screamed. 
The the used to burn, see rooms 

494
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,200
to screen, youth athletes, like 
high school athletes coming in 

495
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,600
and seeing what sports had the 
highest incidence of injuries 

496
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,700
overall from a variety of stuff 
and guess what? 

497
00:26:48,700 --> 00:26:52,700
Made up a quarter of all high 
school sport related injuries, 

498
00:26:52,700 --> 00:26:59,100
showing up to the ER, Running. 
So that was the highest one so 

499
00:26:59,100 --> 00:27:02,000
it running has a higher injury 
risk, right? 

500
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,100
The types of injuries are going 
to be different compared to 

501
00:27:04,100 --> 00:27:08,800
other sports, but that said 
being able to go, hey, these are

502
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,500
were trying to help you and 
maybe reduce some of those those

503
00:27:11,500 --> 00:27:13,300
risk factors. 
And one of it is being really 

504
00:27:13,300 --> 00:27:17,500
careful with when you're young. 
How Focus, how, how much you 

505
00:27:17,500 --> 00:27:19,800
specializing? 
Or you allow in the kid if they 

506
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,800
want to to kind of try a variety
things again to going back to 

507
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,800
trying to build athleticism? 
ISM and overall Fitness and 

508
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,600
function, you know, maybe having
a little fun, heaven forbid. 

509
00:27:30,300 --> 00:27:34,100
I think one of the hard things 
for athletes who are in high 

510
00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:37,400
school in taking time off. 
So for in this is speaking to 

511
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,800
those who do sport specialized, 
which is actually a high 

512
00:27:40,100 --> 00:27:42,400
unfortunately, like a very high 
percentage of people. 

513
00:27:44,300 --> 00:27:46,600
One of the biggest fears for 
these kids is I've interacted 

514
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,700
with them. 
Is I don't I have big goals for 

515
00:27:48,700 --> 00:27:50,400
my running and I don't want to 
lose my fitness. 

516
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,000
I want to be able to perform so 
I guess my next question is kind

517
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,100
of to And for y'all, and it's 
what is best practice, how would

518
00:27:58,100 --> 00:28:01,400
you recommend best practice to 
parents to coaches to these 

519
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,000
athletes. 
And how do you go about actually

520
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,000
communicating that message in a 
way that's effective? 

521
00:28:07,700 --> 00:28:10,900
And yeah, how do you go about 
that communication side of 

522
00:28:10,900 --> 00:28:12,500
things? 
Because that is how do you get 

523
00:28:12,500 --> 00:28:14,400
by in? 
I guess, is my question from the

524
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,700
athletes? 
Android you have for starting on

525
00:28:16,700 --> 00:28:18,000
that one? 
Yeah, sure. 

526
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,700
So if you think about high 
schooler, who does cross country

527
00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:25,700
and track. 
So Start with this time of year 

528
00:28:25,700 --> 00:28:28,800
track season is ending the 
school years almost over. 

529
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,100
So, a lot of these track 
athletes are probably either 

530
00:28:33,100 --> 00:28:35,300
super motivated from the great 
results. 

531
00:28:35,300 --> 00:28:39,100
They got this year or super 
motivated from the not so great 

532
00:28:39,100 --> 00:28:40,900
results. 
They got this year and they're 

533
00:28:40,900 --> 00:28:43,100
like, I'm going to hit it hard 
this summer. 

534
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,300
I'm going to get so fit for 
cross country, but the most 

535
00:28:47,300 --> 00:28:51,300
important thing to do right now,
once your track season is over, 

536
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,300
is actually have a recovery 
period where you're not 

537
00:28:54,500 --> 00:28:56,600
Training. 
Now, does that mean, like, lay 

538
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,300
on the couch all day? 
1 school's out. 

539
00:28:59,300 --> 00:29:03,700
No, but don't run. 
Maybe go ride your bike or go 

540
00:29:03,700 --> 00:29:06,700
hiking or if you like going to 
the gym. 

541
00:29:06,700 --> 00:29:10,700
Do the elliptical like still do 
something, make sure it's at a 

542
00:29:10,700 --> 00:29:14,300
low intensity, you know, don't 
say, oh, I'm taking some time 

543
00:29:14,300 --> 00:29:17,400
off track. 
So I decided to go do all of the

544
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,900
hit workouts at the gym. 
That's not letting your body 

545
00:29:20,900 --> 00:29:23,500
recover. 
So first, you've got to give 

546
00:29:23,500 --> 00:29:26,800
yourself a Recovery period. 
Where you're actually letting 

547
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,800
your body recover and then in 
the summer, yes, you need to 

548
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,000
run, but you shouldn't be 
running the mileage that you're 

549
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,400
running at the peak of your 
tracker cross country season. 

550
00:29:37,700 --> 00:29:41,300
You should be looking at it as 
how to build a base, and I think

551
00:29:41,300 --> 00:29:45,300
that a lot of high school 
athletes could benefit from 

552
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,300
continuing to cross train during
the summer. 

553
00:29:48,300 --> 00:29:52,700
So, including some bike riding, 
I'm very partial to bike riding 

554
00:29:55,500 --> 00:29:59,200
Swimming elliptical. 
Again just other modes of 

555
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:04,400
cardiovascular exercise that let
you get some volumen but don't 

556
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,400
make you 100% reliant on running
and we're going to talk a little

557
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,000
more about strength training but
the summertime is the perfect 

558
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,600
time to start a strength routine
because it's not going to 

559
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,200
interfere with your competition.
You have more time because 

560
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:24,200
you're not in school. 
So add that in but again after 

561
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,200
you you've had that recovery 
period. 

562
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:32,200
Not the first week off after 
track season as far as like 

563
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,500
getting buy-in from parents and 
athletes to. 

564
00:30:34,500 --> 00:30:37,900
I think just reinforcing that 
like doing these little things 

565
00:30:38,300 --> 00:30:42,000
will only help your next season.
And so, I actually think of it 

566
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,700
from the flipside about all the 
people that have track and field

567
00:30:44,700 --> 00:30:48,300
as their secondary sport. 
I look at the football players. 

568
00:30:48,300 --> 00:30:52,100
I look at whether the soccer 
players like they'd say go do 

569
00:30:52,100 --> 00:30:54,200
your season here then go learn 
how to run. 

570
00:30:54,500 --> 00:30:57,400
Austin track, come back next 
fall and will be even better 

571
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,400
coming off the line will even be
better with this that, you know,

572
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,100
power development, movement 
development, whether they're on 

573
00:31:04,100 --> 00:31:07,000
the line and they go and they 
start doing throwing, they start

574
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,600
doing other things. 
So just use it learning how to 

575
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,300
use your body in different ways 
while still having a rest from 

576
00:31:13,300 --> 00:31:16,400
your main sport. 
Because I mean, obviously we're 

577
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,600
biased to the running side of 
things but I think a large 

578
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,700
majority of people that are 
running in high school it's not 

579
00:31:22,700 --> 00:31:25,000
their primary sport. 
I'm I'm willing to go out and 

580
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,300
say that until they make that 
decision for themselves. 

581
00:31:29,300 --> 00:31:34,100
Usually as upperclassmen you 
know but for the most part it's 

582
00:31:34,100 --> 00:31:37,800
a secondary sport for a lot of 
people and I think looking at 

583
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:42,200
looking at that from a big 
picture standpoint when you're 

584
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,000
talking to a parent or an 
athlete just reinforcing that. 

585
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,100
Like by doing all of these 
things, it will only make you 

586
00:31:47,100 --> 00:31:49,600
better not just in your main 
sport but also in this one. 

587
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,300
And I think that's a really for 
those Sports, specialized errs 

588
00:31:53,300 --> 00:31:57,500
the running, Others. 
That's a potent example because 

589
00:31:57,500 --> 00:32:00,000
it's so common for football 
player to go do a different 

590
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,000
sport for a season and and 
that's just oh yeah, they do 

591
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,800
that to get ready for, you know,
they'll do wrestling to get 

592
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,200
ready for those common with 
wrestling. 

593
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,300
It's like the football players 
will wrestle so that they can 

594
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,800
work on stuff for football. 
But they're not playing football

595
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,500
during wrestling season, they're
just wrestling. 

596
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,200
And so the same and I love that 
analogy. 

597
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:17,200
That's really good. 
Matt. 

598
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,200
What do you got? 
I think what I would add on to 

599
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,800
all this is when talking to the 
parents going again. 

600
00:32:22,100 --> 00:32:23,100
What do you want out of this, 
right? 

601
00:32:23,100 --> 00:32:25,300
Where's the kid want to see if 
you You really want to be 

602
00:32:25,300 --> 00:32:28,400
serious about this, the old 
concept, what that was? 

603
00:32:28,500 --> 00:32:30,300
You just got to run yourself 
into the ground. 

604
00:32:30,300 --> 00:32:33,300
We know that doesn't work. 
We have lots of evidence, both 

605
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,900
actual research evidence, and we
also have anecdotal evidence 

606
00:32:35,900 --> 00:32:38,400
that people will burn out. 
These are the same people that 

607
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,700
maybe never run after high 
school or they never run after 

608
00:32:40,700 --> 00:32:43,300
college, right that if you 
really want to be successful 

609
00:32:43,500 --> 00:32:46,200
again athleticism and skill 
development is how you want to 

610
00:32:46,208 --> 00:32:49,200
approach this and also 
understanding both on a micro 

611
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,800
level and a macro level how the 
body actually responds to 

612
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,100
training, right? 
So there's this. 

613
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,700
So called super compensation. 
That is how we get better when 

614
00:32:57,700 --> 00:33:00,200
you you're at a certain level 
Fitness, you do workout. 

615
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,900
So this is micro level, you do a
workout, you beat yourself up, 

616
00:33:03,900 --> 00:33:05,800
right? 
You actually lose Fitness, 

617
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,100
right? 
It's your the time when you 

618
00:33:08,100 --> 00:33:11,500
actually recover an adapt to 
that, if you give your body time

619
00:33:11,500 --> 00:33:14,700
to adapt that you actually go 
back up and you have a small 

620
00:33:14,700 --> 00:33:18,400
gain in Fitness, right? 
And so this cycle is how you get

621
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,600
better within a season, but the 
same concept also applies on a 

622
00:33:21,608 --> 00:33:25,400
macro level in years, right? 
So, if you Have this period 

623
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,800
where you are constantly working
working, working working, you're

624
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,800
going to start to go head down 
this way to eventually got to 

625
00:33:29,808 --> 00:33:32,500
take a break, and if you don't, 
you're going to keep going down.

626
00:33:32,500 --> 00:33:34,700
You see this a lot in high 
school and college athletes, 

627
00:33:34,700 --> 00:33:37,100
that start out really good. 
And then for like why are they 

628
00:33:37,100 --> 00:33:38,700
getting worse? 
What's going on? 

629
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,300
There's other variables, but 
you've got to allow even a 

630
00:33:41,308 --> 00:33:43,600
little recovery. 
So their body can actually get 

631
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,300
that a potential to improve 
Fitness and that's where again, 

632
00:33:47,300 --> 00:33:50,100
the summer is in Winter. 
There's a great period to go. 

633
00:33:50,100 --> 00:33:53,200
You know, what if you were doing
another sport, right? 

634
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,400
Like football. 
It could take a break so you can

635
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,000
have a little mental break from 
this yours, exposing your body, 

636
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,400
different forces, you're working
on different skills. 

637
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,700
So Andrea had some great ideas 
going, do some cycling, do some 

638
00:34:03,700 --> 00:34:05,800
other things that allow you to 
build volume without killing 

639
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,600
yourself while you still add 
running in and work on running 

640
00:34:08,699 --> 00:34:11,199
as a skill. 
But it's also the best place to 

641
00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:13,400
add stuff like a heavy thing of 
strength training. 

642
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,100
We know that strength training 
is one of the few things that 

643
00:34:16,100 --> 00:34:20,600
decreases injury risk, it all. 
So I would argue improves your 

644
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,699
capacity for training, right? 
Because the Strong. 

645
00:34:24,699 --> 00:34:27,800
You are the more you might be 
able to handle that said, you 

646
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,300
need to add that in during non 
competition phase. 

647
00:34:31,300 --> 00:34:33,500
Because if you add too many 
variables in while you're going 

648
00:34:33,500 --> 00:34:36,600
super hard on one skill, you're 
probably going to get hurt. 

649
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,199
So the summer is a perfect time 
to go. 

650
00:34:38,500 --> 00:34:40,199
Hey, how do I build a 
foundation? 

651
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:42,699
And I think we are understanding
of what a foundation looks like.

652
00:34:42,699 --> 00:34:45,699
The base training has definitely
evolved. 

653
00:34:45,699 --> 00:34:48,800
So again going back to talking 
to parents and kids going. 

654
00:34:48,900 --> 00:34:52,300
If you really want the most out 
of this here is what evidence 

655
00:34:52,300 --> 00:34:56,500
and the last hundred plus years 
Of coaching experience and 

656
00:34:56,500 --> 00:34:59,500
evidence has shown in terms of 
hat. 

657
00:34:59,500 --> 00:35:01,700
What does Peak Performance look 
like? 

658
00:35:01,900 --> 00:35:05,100
It may not be doing the same 
thing all the time. 

659
00:35:05,500 --> 00:35:07,700
Yeah. 
And I'm top of strength. 

660
00:35:08,300 --> 00:35:10,800
There's evidence that shows that
jumping programs like 

661
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:16,100
Plyometrics improve running 
economy by like 2% over. 

662
00:35:16,100 --> 00:35:18,200
Even a six to eight-week Jumping
program. 

663
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,900
So that's a great offseason 
thing to work in as well. 

664
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,600
So I kind of have like a little 
list of things that I I talked 

665
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:30,600
to the coaches in our area about
who knows if they fully are on 

666
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,800
board with me but we have a 
really good relationship so we 

667
00:35:32,808 --> 00:35:37,800
get to have these conversations.
I kind of have three pronged 

668
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,900
like advice that they can give 
that they're athletes one is 

669
00:35:40,900 --> 00:35:43,500
that I advised them to have 
their athletes, take a real 

670
00:35:43,500 --> 00:35:46,800
offseason go. 
Take three to four months out of

671
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:51,500
a year off of running and then 
say at the same time and in that

672
00:35:51,500 --> 00:35:54,200
time they should participate in 
a multi-directional. 

673
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,100
Or whether that's officially 
with your school or a club or if

674
00:35:58,100 --> 00:36:01,100
it's joining like a summer 
Ultimate Frisbee League like 

675
00:36:01,100 --> 00:36:03,700
whatever it is I say so you 
should have them take three to 

676
00:36:03,700 --> 00:36:06,100
four months after in the year 
they should participate in a 

677
00:36:06,108 --> 00:36:10,200
multi-directional sport and then
on the flip side, you don't want

678
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,000
them to do. 
Nothing leading up to cross 

679
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,900
country season because you're 
going to jump into cross country

680
00:36:14,900 --> 00:36:17,000
season and get hurt because your
body hasn't been used to 

681
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,200
running. 
So the evidence shows that you 

682
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:24,100
can reduce the athletes who did 
eight weeks of Base mileage. 

683
00:36:24,300 --> 00:36:27,500
Training prior to cross country 
season, had the lowest amount of

684
00:36:27,500 --> 00:36:31,200
injuries in comparison to those 
who did less than eight weeks. 

685
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,800
So, I say that during the 
summer, your athlete should 

686
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,900
participate in base training, 
without workouts, just base slow

687
00:36:37,900 --> 00:36:41,400
mileage for eight weeks, leading
up to the cross country season, 

688
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:46,400
and are our school in Stevens 
Point, has an awesome Summer 

689
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,700
Running program. 
And so they do that part really,

690
00:36:48,700 --> 00:36:52,000
really well, if not too much 
running, but don't tell him. 

691
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,200
I said that over the podcast, I 
don't know. 

692
00:36:54,300 --> 00:36:56,200
Probably don't listen to this 
anyway. 

693
00:36:57,100 --> 00:36:58,700
But so I do. 
Those are the kind of the three 

694
00:36:58,700 --> 00:37:00,200
things. 
It's take a real offseason, 

695
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,200
participate in a 
multi-directional sport and then

696
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:06,800
build a base during the summer, 
little bit tangential to this 

697
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,900
are two other common mistakes 
that I see with with these high 

698
00:37:11,900 --> 00:37:14,800
school Runners. 
The first one is with usually 

699
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,000
the high performers and that's 
that they just want to get 

700
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:22,900
really, really high mileage in 
and the they've shown that High 

701
00:37:22,900 --> 00:37:25,900
School Runners who are in the 
The upper quartiles, the top 

702
00:37:25,900 --> 00:37:27,900
forth or set the right? 
Yeah. 

703
00:37:27,900 --> 00:37:31,100
The tub, fourth of runners in 
terms of mileage there, at two 

704
00:37:31,100 --> 00:37:33,600
times, the injury risk of 
everybody else. 

705
00:37:33,900 --> 00:37:37,900
So having to high of mileage can
double your injury risk and so 

706
00:37:37,900 --> 00:37:40,800
especially during the offseason,
you want to back yourself. 

707
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:45,100
Way way, way down the second 
mistake I see is with the non 

708
00:37:45,100 --> 00:37:48,400
super high performers and it's 
with like everybody else. 

709
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:54,000
The like the team here has like 
60 to 80 Runners and so like, 

710
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,300
it's Everybody else is where I 
see this mistake happening and 

711
00:37:57,300 --> 00:38:00,600
they're easy runs. 
They all just run together and 

712
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:05,000
so the easy Run for the top 
Varsity, athlete is the same 

713
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:10,000
Pace that the like ninth guy on 
JV is running and that just 

714
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,200
isn't their true easy run. 
And so, it's so common. 

715
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,200
As we see with adults as well, 
but people, these kids are just 

716
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,100
training too hard. 
And so somehow, if you're a 

717
00:38:19,100 --> 00:38:23,400
coach to normalize somehow 
spreading out and paste groups 

718
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,600
or tea, Each them rpe is a way 
to say hey on this easy run 

719
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,700
today. 
You can't go over a 4 out of 10 

720
00:38:30,700 --> 00:38:32,800
on the RPG and help them 
understand what that is. 

721
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,300
I think that could be a really 
helpful way to get your athletes

722
00:38:37,300 --> 00:38:39,800
and stay healthy because a lot 
of the ones that get hurt are 

723
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:41,800
actually these 
middle-of-the-pack kids and I 

724
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,200
think it's because they're just 
running way too fast often. 

725
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,200
And that's again that's in my 
area with kind of the kind of 

726
00:38:48,208 --> 00:38:51,500
the culture of the team here. 
So those are kind of some other 

727
00:38:51,500 --> 00:38:54,100
mistakes that I see before we 
move. 

728
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,000
On, is there anything else that 
you guys want to add on to this 

729
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,200
conversation? 
You know, just thinking about 

730
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,300
what you said about the 
importance of an eight-week base

731
00:39:03,300 --> 00:39:05,400
period. 
I think that's particularly 

732
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,400
important considering how fall 
cross-country practice normally 

733
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,200
starts out. 
I don't know if it's any 

734
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,700
different than it was when I was
in cross country. 

735
00:39:14,700 --> 00:39:17,500
But we started out with 
two-a-day practices for two 

736
00:39:17,500 --> 00:39:23,100
weeks, we did intervals right 
off the bat, you know, 

737
00:39:23,100 --> 00:39:24,100
intervals, in the morning 
before. 

738
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,800
For school and then a longer run
after school. 

739
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,500
So if an athlete came into the 
start of the year without a 

740
00:39:30,508 --> 00:39:33,300
base, you're just setting 
yourself up for injury. 

741
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,000
So that could be a question of 
well, is that the appropriate 

742
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:43,800
way to start out practice? 
Or is it just that much more 

743
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,300
important that the coaches 
communicate with anyone? 

744
00:39:46,300 --> 00:39:50,400
Who's going to be on the cross 
country, team, the importance of

745
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,100
having a base. 
And I think this is the case 

746
00:39:54,100 --> 00:39:56,900
everywhere. 
But in Illinois, where I was in 

747
00:39:56,900 --> 00:40:00,800
school, you're not allowed to 
have your coaches around in the 

748
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:02,800
summertime. 
Like you can't have official 

749
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,600
practice so coach. 
Is need to do a good job of 

750
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,900
communicating with their 
athletes. 

751
00:40:08,900 --> 00:40:13,100
What's expected of them over the
summer because they're not 

752
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,100
officially allowed to be 
involved with their training 

753
00:40:16,100 --> 00:40:19,300
during the summertime. 
I would say just reflecting 

754
00:40:19,300 --> 00:40:20,900
this, this is phenomenal 
information. 

755
00:40:20,900 --> 00:40:23,400
But I don't want people to take 
away is there were telling you 

756
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,100
not to run during the summer, 
right? 

757
00:40:25,100 --> 00:40:29,000
So it's that, that base training
is still really, really key what

758
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,900
base training looks like I think
really needs to evolve going. 

759
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:34,900
Yeah, you probably should 
probably shouldn't be hitting. 

760
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,200
And hard intervals, right? 
You should ask yourself what is 

761
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,900
the purpose of what you're doing
right now is you're prepping 

762
00:40:39,900 --> 00:40:44,000
your body to be able to handle 
what you're going to ask of it 

763
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,600
during the competition in the in
season stuff. 

764
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:50,300
Righteous where you start 
getting faster intervals harder 

765
00:40:50,300 --> 00:40:53,200
stuff, right? 
So make sure that the summer is 

766
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,200
a time to build, but just make 
sure you're building from the 

767
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,600
right period. 
Which still means you're gonna 

768
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,800
need a break after the last 
season, right? 

769
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:02,700
If you did track, you're 
probably gonna need your. 

770
00:41:02,700 --> 00:41:04,900
You need a break to make sure 
your body can get ready. 

771
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,000
For what you're going to ask a 
bit then need to make sure the 

772
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,000
base building, you have to build
appropriate volume and do what 

773
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,700
you got to do to make sure it's 
ready to handle the competition 

774
00:41:13,700 --> 00:41:17,300
phase. 
And then again, just keep going 

775
00:41:17,300 --> 00:41:20,000
from that period and ask 
yourself what is the purpose of 

776
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,700
what we're doing right now? 
And how do we get the most out 

777
00:41:22,700 --> 00:41:26,100
of that without creating 
injuries or risk factors? 

778
00:41:26,500 --> 00:41:29,500
So I kind of want to transition 
US unless David, do you have 

779
00:41:29,500 --> 00:41:31,700
something because you should 
it's after I ask the next 

780
00:41:31,700 --> 00:41:33,300
question. 
That you have something you want

781
00:41:33,300 --> 00:41:34,500
to say. 
Mmm. 

782
00:41:34,500 --> 00:41:35,900
You're also In high school. 
Chill. 

783
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:41,900
Relax have fun. 
Yeah, totally. 

784
00:41:43,300 --> 00:41:46,200
So let's let's transition. 
So we just kind of had this 

785
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,000
whole block talking about early 
Sports specialization. 

786
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,100
Ultimately, it's not worth it 
both from an injury perspective 

787
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,600
and from a performance 
perspective and that's 

788
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,200
performance even independent of 
injury. 

789
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,500
So you get double. 
Bang for your buck if you can 

790
00:41:59,500 --> 00:42:02,600
stay healthy and improve your 
performance. 

791
00:42:03,300 --> 00:42:05,400
So we're going to transition 
from that round in into this 

792
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,300
other realm of common running 
injuries. 

793
00:42:07,300 --> 00:42:10,900
We've seen we see in high school
athletes as well as starting to 

794
00:42:10,900 --> 00:42:14,200
talk about some other tips 
regarding nutrition and recovery

795
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,700
and things like that. 
So does anybody want to kick us 

796
00:42:16,700 --> 00:42:19,400
off in terms of the common 
common injuries that we're 

797
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:24,400
seeing with with these athletes?
But overuse injuries. 

798
00:42:25,700 --> 00:42:30,500
Yeah, just failure to recover, I
mean everything, from stress 

799
00:42:30,500 --> 00:42:34,400
reaction stress, fracture to 
tendonitis, and pretty much 

800
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:39,200
everywhere, you know, whether 
its Achilles puts all her hip. 

801
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,700
I mean, those are probably the 
most common things I see coming 

802
00:42:42,700 --> 00:42:44,800
through. 
Yep, I'd agree with that. 

803
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:49,300
I would say just I mean this is 
not a scientific sample but I 

804
00:42:49,300 --> 00:42:52,200
think knee pain is probably the 
most common. 

805
00:42:52,700 --> 00:42:54,400
Pain that I see in youth 
Runners. 

806
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:58,300
I will say from the evidence 
having looked at this never 

807
00:42:58,300 --> 00:43:01,400
compare this and this is a side 
thing of me getting distracted 

808
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,700
for my dissertation. 
So I was looking at average 

809
00:43:03,700 --> 00:43:06,300
running population versus 
Masters in this some of the 

810
00:43:06,300 --> 00:43:08,100
stuff with the average running 
population, gets a little bit 

811
00:43:08,100 --> 00:43:11,700
more tense in youth athletes. 
So obviously a lot of bone 

812
00:43:11,700 --> 00:43:15,200
related stuff is really common 
stress fractures that stuff but 

813
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,500
then you've also got your common
ones that are also very common 

814
00:43:17,500 --> 00:43:23,200
with runners in general, right? 
Your, I don't want Why am I 

815
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:24,500
blinking? 
I don't want to say shin 

816
00:43:24,500 --> 00:43:27,000
splints. 
I want the real word or phrase. 

817
00:43:27,500 --> 00:43:29,000
Tibial, stress syndrome. 
Yeah. 

818
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:29,700
Media. 
Thank you. 

819
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:31,800
Medial tibial. 
Stress syndrome is really really

820
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:36,000
common and then patella femoral 
stuff is also really, really 

821
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,100
common. 
There's ones less to a let. 

822
00:43:38,100 --> 00:43:41,300
Those are kind of the big ones 
that you'll see you will. 

823
00:43:41,300 --> 00:43:43,900
Definitely from the evidence 
also see stuff like it band. 

824
00:43:43,900 --> 00:43:46,800
That's really, really common in 
the younger people. 

825
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,100
You'll still also see 
Osgood-Schlatters or the I'm 

826
00:43:50,100 --> 00:43:54,300
having a really hard time 
thinking today the The a 

827
00:43:54,900 --> 00:43:57,800
calculus diversity is yes. 
Like how can you love pops out 

828
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,500
and bursitis? 
Stuff are really common than 

829
00:44:01,500 --> 00:44:05,000
following that you get more of 
your muscular related strains, 

830
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:09,500
hamstring quad, which aren't as 
common but that's kind of that 

831
00:44:09,500 --> 00:44:11,900
you're more popular. 
If not more popular, more 

832
00:44:11,900 --> 00:44:17,700
common, these are the fun ones 
to get more popular, more common

833
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,700
to your less common. 
But you'll see a wide range in 

834
00:44:21,700 --> 00:44:25,300
the youth athletes. 
I think you guys, you guys have 

835
00:44:25,300 --> 00:44:29,000
hit him the common ones like 
this patellofemoral pain, IT 

836
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:33,400
band syndrome. 
Those are all common among youth

837
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,300
athletes. 
And then adult youth Runners and

838
00:44:36,300 --> 00:44:39,900
adult Runners the higher ratio 
in running for it. 

839
00:44:39,900 --> 00:44:42,300
Running injuries. 
For these youth athletes come a 

840
00:44:42,308 --> 00:44:44,300
lot of times with bony 
structures. 

841
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,100
That's like where those ratios 
start to change a little bit. 

842
00:44:47,100 --> 00:44:53,200
So that's we've kind of talked 
about a bit with the bone stress

843
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:54,500
injuries and all that kind of 
stuff. 

844
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:58,300
The other one that I see 
clinically is not necessarily 

845
00:44:58,300 --> 00:45:02,400
full-blown, like 
Osgood-Schlatters receivers, but

846
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:07,200
whether if it's in the calcaneus
in the heel up at the up in the 

847
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,900
tibia or even up by the Asis, so
up in the pelvis, I'm just 

848
00:45:11,900 --> 00:45:13,600
getting what's called 
apophysitis. 

849
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,900
So the epiphyseal plates aren't 
fully closed yet and so they can

850
00:45:16,900 --> 00:45:20,400
just get irritated and inflamed.
So often where that tendon is 

851
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,700
pulling on the epiphysis. 
I get irritated. 

852
00:45:23,700 --> 00:45:26,400
And so sometimes it just takes 
like a week or two where you 

853
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,400
have this really severe pain. 
That's not reacting, like a 

854
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:34,100
tendon seems more like a bone 
but it's not definitely not a 

855
00:45:34,108 --> 00:45:36,000
bone stress injury, just based 
on things. 

856
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,900
So this is a lot of times in 
like the sprinters and jumpers 

857
00:45:38,900 --> 00:45:41,000
that I work with. 
So they get a lot of these like 

858
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:42,600
Hip Flex. 
It seems like a hip flexor 

859
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:48,200
strain but it's actually the 
epiphysis up at the pelvis there

860
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,700
and that just it takes it's a 
bugger and it just takes a 

861
00:45:50,700 --> 00:45:52,400
little bit of time to let it 
calm down. 

862
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,300
And you can't do the loading 
program, like you would for a 

863
00:45:55,300 --> 00:45:58,000
tendon injury and so those it's 
nice to have a PT in your 

864
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,500
corner, for things like that to 
differentiate between if it's 

865
00:46:01,500 --> 00:46:05,400
fascitis or if it's, you know, 
an actual tendon injury. 

866
00:46:06,100 --> 00:46:10,000
Let's, let's talk a little bit 
about recovery, so we had a 

867
00:46:10,008 --> 00:46:13,000
recovery episode. 
Do we record that last week? 

868
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:17,200
I think recorded it last week 
with Ryan wooderson and I think 

869
00:46:17,208 --> 00:46:20,100
a lot of that, the wisdom from 
their could flow into this 

870
00:46:20,100 --> 00:46:24,900
conversation, but within Cover, 
you kind of has the big 3 or 4, 

871
00:46:24,900 --> 00:46:30,600
it talks about nutrition, sleep,
stress, and managing those 

872
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:32,800
things. 
So, when it comes to youth 

873
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:35,500
athletes, how should we think 
about nutrition? 

874
00:46:35,500 --> 00:46:38,500
How should we think about sleep?
What sort of advice do we have 

875
00:46:38,500 --> 00:46:42,800
for for these athletes? 
And what are the impacts of not 

876
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:45,200
taking care of those things? 
If you're actually trying to run

877
00:46:45,300 --> 00:46:49,400
competitively or just stay 
healthy for a whole season, Go 

878
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,700
ahead, Matt. 
Yeah, and this, these are such 

879
00:46:51,700 --> 00:46:54,800
tough ones because I how many of
you had perfect nutrition and 

880
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,700
sleep growing up, right? 
Like your kid, right? 

881
00:46:57,700 --> 00:46:59,300
You're doing. 
You're up late. 

882
00:46:59,300 --> 00:47:02,100
Your for me. 
I was either reading too late 

883
00:47:02,100 --> 00:47:05,000
because I was a nerd or you have
other people that are actually 

884
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,200
out enjoying their lives, like 
normal people. 

885
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:09,400
Unlike me, you know, you're 
doing stuff. 

886
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,000
You're exploring your kind of 
figuring out right versus wrong 

887
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,100
and that kind of stuff. 
So, it's also the same thing 

888
00:47:15,100 --> 00:47:17,400
with nutrition rights. 
The classic when you're younger,

889
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:18,900
you can seem to eat whatever you
want. 

890
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,600
Want and you're like well I'm 
just getting you know or and you

891
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:25,300
don't really think hey how what 
the effect might this have on me

892
00:47:25,500 --> 00:47:27,400
because you're not worried about
like an increase in weight 

893
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,500
because your metabolism is high 
enough and you're already 

894
00:47:29,500 --> 00:47:30,900
running and moving around 
enough. 

895
00:47:31,100 --> 00:47:34,000
You don't really think about 
what a full nutrient profile 

896
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,600
looks like what why sleep is so 
important. 

897
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,700
But the problem is as a young 
person you actually need more 

898
00:47:41,700 --> 00:47:45,000
sleep, right? 
And kids often there's some good

899
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,600
resources could frequently do 
not get the recommended amount 

900
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,300
of sleep that they need. 
For growing bodies, right? 

901
00:47:50,300 --> 00:47:53,400
So we already know kids don't 
get enough sleep, when you're an

902
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,400
athlete, you need even more, 
right? 

903
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,900
Because your body is not only 
needing to recover from just 

904
00:47:57,900 --> 00:47:59,700
growing and being a young 
person. 

905
00:47:59,900 --> 00:48:02,800
Now, you've added stress, you 
have to recover for from, and 

906
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,700
then there's the nutrition part 
where you need to be eating 

907
00:48:05,900 --> 00:48:08,000
adequate amounts. 
And unfortunately, there's a lot

908
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,100
of stuff especially in the 
Running World about what you 

909
00:48:10,100 --> 00:48:13,300
might need to look like where 
you need to be a certain weight 

910
00:48:13,300 --> 00:48:16,000
or need to look a certain way. 
And people may get focused on 

911
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,900
that one, realizing you're 
burning a ton of calories. 

912
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,000
Even when you're just sitting 
there and being able to optimize

913
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,400
that and making sure eating 
enough so you can recover 

914
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:27,100
because if you don't you're 
going to get hurt and sleeping 

915
00:48:27,100 --> 00:48:29,700
enough because if you don't 
you're going to hurt or you just

916
00:48:29,700 --> 00:48:32,500
going to feel terrible. 
So that's one of the fun things 

917
00:48:32,500 --> 00:48:35,300
about working with younger 
athletes. 

918
00:48:35,300 --> 00:48:38,400
As you can get them on sleeping.
Well, and eating better, like, 

919
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:39,700
wow. 
I don't feel like crap all the 

920
00:48:39,700 --> 00:48:41,000
time. 
Who would ever thought you like?

921
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,400
Yeah, I yeah, I'm glad you 
realize. 

922
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,800
This is good. 
Same thing with adults by the 

923
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:48,000
way. 
So I can't judge. 

924
00:48:49,100 --> 00:48:53,400
Don't feel like crap anymore is 
like Yang if you sleep enough to

925
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,100
eat enough. 
That's kind of what happens. 

926
00:48:55,600 --> 00:49:00,100
I think nutrition for high 
schoolers is hard because either

927
00:49:00,500 --> 00:49:03,800
they, or their parents have to 
pack them a healthy lunch to 

928
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,100
take to school or they're 
relying on whatever their school

929
00:49:07,100 --> 00:49:09,700
offers. 
And again, it's been a while 

930
00:49:09,700 --> 00:49:12,000
since I was in high school. 
But thinking about what the 

931
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:16,600
school sold, there weren't a lot
of healthy choices there and it 

932
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,800
was really easy to make 
unhealthy choice. 

933
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,700
Isis that we're all so 
delicious, but not the best for 

934
00:49:22,700 --> 00:49:26,300
pre, you know, workout three 
hours later. 

935
00:49:26,300 --> 00:49:31,300
So I think kids just getting 
like basic information about. 

936
00:49:31,300 --> 00:49:35,600
Okay, here's what your lunch 
should look like in general. 

937
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:41,000
If you have practice that day, 
like carbs protein, you know, 

938
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:47,100
maybe some vegetables, avoid 
junk food, like it doesn't hit, 

939
00:49:47,100 --> 00:49:51,000
we don't have to turn kids into 
Dietitians but I think giving 

940
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:55,100
them basic info so they can make
smart choices can be helpful. 

941
00:49:56,100 --> 00:50:00,200
I'm glad Matt hit on just how 
important it is to consume 

942
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:05,900
enough calories because I think 
the pressure is on kids now from

943
00:50:05,900 --> 00:50:09,600
so many different ends to look 
like a runner which is 

944
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:13,900
ridiculous. 
Can put people down the path of 

945
00:50:13,900 --> 00:50:16,200
disordered eating. 
And of course we know that that 

946
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:20,700
can lead to injury and burnout 
and And all sorts of problems, 

947
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:25,600
but hopefully coaches. 
And parents can spend a little 

948
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:29,800
bit of time talking to their 
kids or their athletes about 

949
00:50:29,900 --> 00:50:33,100
just basic nutrition stuff. 
What should you eat before, 

950
00:50:33,100 --> 00:50:35,900
practice? 
What should you eat before a 

951
00:50:35,900 --> 00:50:38,200
meet? 
If a me, is on a weekday. 

952
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:40,800
How about a me if a meat is on 
the weekend? 

953
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:44,700
What should your food look like,
you know, two hours before the 

954
00:50:44,700 --> 00:50:48,700
race one hour before the race? 
I didn't know any of that stuff 

955
00:50:48,700 --> 00:50:52,800
like And I honestly don't 
remember anyone ever talking to 

956
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:54,900
me about it? 
Maybe they didn't, you know, 

957
00:50:54,900 --> 00:50:59,200
teenage me, just ignored it but 
I think, and, of course, it's 

958
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:01,900
different. 
Now, because kids can look stuff

959
00:51:01,900 --> 00:51:06,000
up on the Internet, which now 
I'm really dating myself. 

960
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:10,800
So I'm going to stop, but just 
giving kids, General nutrition, 

961
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:15,000
info, can go a long way. 
I think that there's a, there's 

962
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:18,200
a opportunity there for 
depending on your school 

963
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,500
district. 
T', you just hit on the idea 

964
00:51:20,500 --> 00:51:23,000
that it's really hard to manage 
all of this stuff. 

965
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,200
Like, think about what we just 
talked about a ton of stuff. 

966
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,000
It almost sounds like we're just
sucking the fun out of this 

967
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:32,000
whole sport, which that's really
not our goal. 

968
00:51:32,300 --> 00:51:35,700
But I feel like there's an 
opportunity here depending on 

969
00:51:35,900 --> 00:51:38,600
what again, what your district 
is set up like and what kind of 

970
00:51:38,608 --> 00:51:43,400
booster clubs you have, I think 
a great investment in your funds

971
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:48,800
that you might raise as a team 
could be used for providing. 

972
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,300
Tricia non days of workouts so 
like kids can come before 

973
00:51:52,300 --> 00:51:56,000
practice and there's just 
granola bars and like just stuff

974
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:59,000
for them to eat and that they 
don't have to go out and buy 

975
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:02,000
them because we know that even 
just like for a lot of families 

976
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:06,000
getting food or extra food is 
not possible, that's just like 

977
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:10,600
not within the possibilities. 
So I think if the team can rally

978
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,600
together to raise funds to 
provide nutrition like the 

979
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,700
actual food at the right times 
for them, I think that'd be a 

980
00:52:16,700 --> 00:52:20,700
great way and I don't know how I
have to do the math on how much 

981
00:52:20,700 --> 00:52:24,100
you'd have to to save, but I bet
there's a way to utilize Costco 

982
00:52:24,300 --> 00:52:27,600
and and do a pretty good job 
getting some stuff that's better

983
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,300
than nothing. 
But Matt you had something to 

984
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,500
yeah, I have a good friend of 
mine who's a sports dietitian I 

985
00:52:33,508 --> 00:52:35,000
guess. 
I think was also treated them 

986
00:52:35,700 --> 00:52:38,100
had some really, really 
straightforward. 

987
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:40,700
When's the voiceless if you 
wouldn't have told us that you 

988
00:52:40,700 --> 00:52:42,700
treated him, you could have told
us about your friends. 

989
00:52:42,700 --> 00:52:46,100
As for institutions, this is me 
being too honest, it's fine. 

990
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,400
Now don't say it now, can ya 
anyway? 

991
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:52,500
So The the word of white advice 
that he gave was that for a 

992
00:52:52,500 --> 00:52:54,900
youth athlete. 
One of your most important, one 

993
00:52:54,900 --> 00:52:58,000
of the best things you can do is
help them develop a good 

994
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:01,700
relationship with food. 
And also to realize that food is

995
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:05,400
something you both enjoy and can
be used as a fuel if you don't 

996
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:09,200
need enough, you're not going to
perform well, if you don't in, 

997
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:12,500
make sure you're enjoying eating
and like have like, you know, a 

998
00:53:12,500 --> 00:53:15,300
good balanced nutrition like a 
nutritional intake. 

999
00:53:15,300 --> 00:53:16,400
You're also going to hate it, 
right? 

1000
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,800
So you want to have you want to 
have for man? 

1001
00:53:18,900 --> 00:53:21,500
A good relationship with the 
stuff because it is what is 

1002
00:53:21,500 --> 00:53:23,400
giving you the energy to do 
these things. 

1003
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:25,200
So make sure you're getting 
enough and make sure you're 

1004
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,400
getting good quality stuff in 
there, have a develop that 

1005
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,900
relationship and that I think 
for coaches and parents of 

1006
00:53:31,900 --> 00:53:33,100
hopefully heard this a million 
times. 

1007
00:53:33,100 --> 00:53:35,800
But that means, you know, be 
careful with what you're saying.

1008
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:37,900
Oh, we got to restrict this or I
remember when I was in high 

1009
00:53:37,900 --> 00:53:42,100
school when and and room also 
going to do the same thing you 

1010
00:53:42,100 --> 00:53:44,500
did, where we didn't, I didn't 
have that much access the 

1011
00:53:44,500 --> 00:53:45,800
internet. 
So is relying on all these 

1012
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,100
magazine Runner's World. 
And remember reading this thing 

1013
00:53:48,100 --> 00:53:51,600
that said, You know, as a runner
it was some coaches said you 

1014
00:53:51,608 --> 00:53:53,100
don't need fat. 
So if you're going to drink 

1015
00:53:53,100 --> 00:53:55,800
milk, you should only drink like
fat free milk. 

1016
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,000
It's really important and all 
the stuff and there was no 

1017
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,400
evidence for what they were 
saying, but I didn't understand 

1018
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:02,100
that. 
So I went on this thing where I 

1019
00:54:02,100 --> 00:54:04,500
was like, I couldn't take in, I 
didn't want to take an any fat 

1020
00:54:04,500 --> 00:54:07,500
because I thought that was going
to Slow Me Down That is not how 

1021
00:54:07,500 --> 00:54:10,100
that works. 
So be careful with what you say 

1022
00:54:10,300 --> 00:54:13,800
because these very 
impressionable athletes are 

1023
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,300
listening to everything you say,
even when you think they are 

1024
00:54:16,300 --> 00:54:20,500
not, so develop, help them. 
Philip good relationships with 

1025
00:54:20,500 --> 00:54:23,100
the with food that they're 
taking in and learn to use it as

1026
00:54:23,100 --> 00:54:25,500
a tool. 
And is something that's just a 

1027
00:54:25,508 --> 00:54:28,800
normal part of life. 
Yeah, I just had I'll go ahead 

1028
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:33,600
and really just adding on to 
that not making kids think they 

1029
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:37,900
have to earn food. 
Like, that's a really bad path 

1030
00:54:37,900 --> 00:54:41,400
to go down, food isn't earned at
something that you need, you 

1031
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,300
don't have to run five miles to 
get to eat. 

1032
00:54:44,300 --> 00:54:47,200
You know, breakfast. 
It would say it's the opposite 

1033
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:52,000
where hey you ran five Mi think 
about what you might need for 

1034
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,000
adequate recovery. 
Right. 

1035
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,800
How much do you like, what? 
Extra stuff that you need 

1036
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,600
outside of what your normal 
basal metabolism is. 

1037
00:55:00,100 --> 00:55:03,300
And don't overthink it but just 
go yeah, throw an extra Pisa, 

1038
00:55:03,300 --> 00:55:06,000
bacon on there, some like that. 
That's that's fine. 

1039
00:55:06,700 --> 00:55:09,800
Going back to milk conversation.
I have to talk about milk 

1040
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:12,700
because I live in Wisconsin and 
I guess you guys live in 

1041
00:55:12,700 --> 00:55:15,700
California to you so you've 
cows. 

1042
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:22,200
But then we have cat. 
Plenty of cows are cows Rd. 

1043
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:24,900
I mean I can speak from Southern
California and she know we're 

1044
00:55:24,900 --> 00:55:27,900
losing our dairy farm so it's 
sad. 

1045
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,700
Yeah. 
Well here in Wisconsin we have 

1046
00:55:30,700 --> 00:55:35,100
happy cows and isn't that? 
That's California's thing but 

1047
00:55:35,100 --> 00:55:38,400
anyway there's there is research
out again. 

1048
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,800
This is going back to kind of 
bone, stress injuries, one cup 

1049
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:48,700
of milk a day decreased bone 
fracture risk in athletes by 62%

1050
00:55:49,500 --> 00:55:53,200
And so having things that are 
supplementing, bone, health is 

1051
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,600
super important. 
That's a really easy one. 

1052
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:59,300
Just start drinking milk, a 
little bit of milk every day. 

1053
00:55:59,300 --> 00:56:02,500
Obviously there I'm not a I'm 
not a registered dietitian and 

1054
00:56:02,500 --> 00:56:04,700
I'm not, you know, that's 
outside of my wheelhouse. 

1055
00:56:04,700 --> 00:56:07,900
But there are little things that
can go a long way and then the 

1056
00:56:07,900 --> 00:56:10,200
other one we need kind of talked
about sleep. 

1057
00:56:10,700 --> 00:56:14,500
There was for poor sleepers. 
There was a five percent 

1058
00:56:14,500 --> 00:56:17,400
reduction in bone mineral 
density in high school Runners. 

1059
00:56:17,700 --> 00:56:22,100
And so, Getting enough sleep, 
which I think is around 10 hours

1060
00:56:22,100 --> 00:56:25,500
of sleep a night for high 
schoolers is pretty important 

1061
00:56:25,500 --> 00:56:28,300
again for like long-term bone 
health. 

1062
00:56:28,300 --> 00:56:32,500
So which when I was in high 
school, I was staying up late 

1063
00:56:32,500 --> 00:56:35,400
and playing video games, and 
going to Taco, Bell and buying 

1064
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:39,000
Baja Blast, and a chalupa and in
the middle of winter. 

1065
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:42,000
And then like freezing, it onto 
our friends, windshields, like, 

1066
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,500
that's what we did for fun in 
the middle of winter in 

1067
00:56:44,500 --> 00:56:47,100
Wisconsin. 
So I did that, I did not get 

1068
00:56:47,100 --> 00:56:51,100
that kind of sleep. 
And I probably should have, but 

1069
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:54,300
a lot of a lot of easy things 
that you can do getting more 

1070
00:56:54,300 --> 00:56:57,800
sleep during the season 
especially and then there's 

1071
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:00,400
little dietary changes. 
One example was milk. 

1072
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:05,100
That can go a long way. 
Yeah, speaking of sleep, I'm 

1073
00:57:05,100 --> 00:57:07,300
thinking of a study. 
I was just reading, I think it 

1074
00:57:07,300 --> 00:57:11,400
was on Military recruits but and
Bone stress injury and they 

1075
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:15,700
found that getting less than six
hours of sleep was a major risk 

1076
00:57:15,700 --> 00:57:18,700
factor for developing a bone 
stress injury. 

1077
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:24,600
And they then set a rule that, 
you know, all P all military 

1078
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:28,700
personnel in this group, had to 
sleep at least 6 hours a night 

1079
00:57:28,700 --> 00:57:32,800
and it interestingly, reduced 
the rate of bone stress injury. 

1080
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,800
So, you know, we don't always 
think of sleep is something that

1081
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:38,200
can have such a direct effect on
injury risk. 

1082
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:42,400
But like that's a, that's very 
clear, and, of course, it makes 

1083
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:44,700
sense. 
Sleep is when our bodies heal 

1084
00:57:44,700 --> 00:57:47,700
and recover from all of the 
really good training we've been 

1085
00:57:47,700 --> 00:57:49,600
doing. 
And if You're not getting enough

1086
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:52,700
of it, then you're not getting 
that repair. 

1087
00:57:52,700 --> 00:57:57,500
That is necessary to allow you 
to train again, the next day and

1088
00:57:57,500 --> 00:58:00,000
that two plays into what Ryan 
talk. 

1089
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:01,800
I don't think you're on the 
recording at, this is just 

1090
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:03,400
David. 
And I, he was talking about the 

1091
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:07,400
reset of cortisol levels with 
sleep and so resetting things 

1092
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:10,500
that play into your ability and 
cortisol has to do a stress 

1093
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:11,800
again, go back and listen to 
that up. 

1094
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:16,200
So, there's great stuff in 
there, David, you have anything 

1095
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:18,600
Yeah. 
Silvan, relax. 

1096
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:20,000
Have fun. 
You're in high school. 

1097
00:58:21,100 --> 00:58:25,400
The other people like to eat a 
lot. 

1098
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:27,900
Sleep, a lot. 
I'd rather you eat something 

1099
00:58:27,900 --> 00:58:29,900
unhealthy than not eat anything 
at all. 

1100
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:33,700
We're talking about very true, 
you know, reinforcing having a 

1101
00:58:33,700 --> 00:58:36,900
good relationship with food and 
these very impressionable 

1102
00:58:36,900 --> 00:58:38,800
athletes. 
They're young, they're moldable,

1103
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:43,600
they, they want to be good, you 
know, a lot of them, they strive

1104
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:46,600
to improve their seeing 
objective progress, or at a time

1105
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:47,600
in. 
Their life, when their bodies 

1106
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:50,200
maturing regardless, they're 
probably gonna get a little bit 

1107
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:54,800
better, no matter what, but they
start seeing the numbers getting

1108
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,000
better. 
And they have a lot of internal 

1109
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,100
drive in order to keep improving
those. 

1110
00:59:00,100 --> 00:59:03,900
And I think people get very 
quick to start closing windows, 

1111
00:59:03,900 --> 00:59:05,800
all I have to shut this off. 
I have to shut this. 

1112
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:08,400
I have to do this. 
I have to walk this narrow path 

1113
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:10,000
in order to be good at 
something. 

1114
00:59:10,700 --> 00:59:14,500
And like when you were saying 
about the Taco Bell, late nights

1115
00:59:14,500 --> 00:59:17,300
Shave Ice. 
I say go for it. 

1116
00:59:17,300 --> 00:59:20,100
Every once in a while, have some
fun, you know, like you should 

1117
00:59:20,100 --> 00:59:23,700
be able to enjoy enjoy this. 
You shouldn't look at Taco Bell 

1118
00:59:23,700 --> 00:59:26,600
and be like, I can't go to Taco 
Bell because I'm going to lose 

1119
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:31,900
five seconds off my 5K. 
Yeah, I think there's other 

1120
00:59:31,900 --> 00:59:33,200
factors. 
That might be more important 

1121
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:34,400
variables. 
Might be more important than 

1122
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:37,300
that. 
Yeah, so that's really my main 

1123
00:59:37,900 --> 00:59:41,600
message there, which goes back 
honestly, David goes back to the

1124
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:44,400
first thing of what, the advice 
that we give our young selves. 

1125
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:47,300
None of us gave any of these 
Very specific and it was like 

1126
00:59:47,500 --> 00:59:50,300
chill out and have fun. 
Take the pressure off yourself. 

1127
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:53,400
Like if you're thinking about 
every single bite of food that 

1128
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:57,300
you take your that's that she's 
telling you your your mental 

1129
00:59:57,300 --> 01:00:00,200
stress is just way too high, so 
good. 

1130
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:03,700
So I'm going to, I'm going to 
pose one final question because 

1131
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:08,400
we are who we are. 
People do often ask me and have 

1132
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:11,900
asked us, what sort of running 
shoes, should I have if my kid 

1133
01:00:11,900 --> 01:00:15,200
is, or if should I get my kid, 
or if I am in high school? 

1134
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:16,600
What sort of shoes? 
Should I run in? 

1135
01:00:16,900 --> 01:00:19,900
What do you think about that? 
If there are cross country or 

1136
01:00:19,900 --> 01:00:23,200
track runner, what sort of shoe 
recommendations do you have for 

1137
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:25,000
these kids? 
Or does it differ from what we 

1138
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,100
say? 
For everybody else, Matt, go 

1139
01:00:27,100 --> 01:00:28,700
ahead. 
I'm actually going to have 

1140
01:00:28,700 --> 01:00:31,400
everybody else start because I'm
really curious about that. 

1141
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:34,100
Last comment that you made you 
had your hand up. 

1142
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:38,100
I know that's waiting until the 
full. 

1143
01:00:38,100 --> 01:00:44,700
The full question was asked, all
right, I'll go first, I think we

1144
01:00:44,700 --> 01:00:47,400
talked about this. 
Ash, it's probably like two 

1145
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:49,500
years ago. 
We did an episode on what kids 

1146
01:00:49,500 --> 01:00:52,100
should wear it. 
So I think let's say we're 

1147
01:00:52,100 --> 01:00:54,200
talking about a High School 
freshman. 

1148
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:57,300
The first question is well, is 
that High School freshman new to

1149
01:00:57,300 --> 01:01:01,000
running, or have they been 
running for, you know, five 

1150
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:03,600
years already? 
If they're new to running you 

1151
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:05,800
just want to start them out in a
basic trainer. 

1152
01:01:06,100 --> 01:01:09,800
They don't, they definitely 
don't need a super shoe, they 

1153
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:11,500
don't need to start out in 
spikes. 

1154
01:01:11,500 --> 01:01:15,700
They just need a shoe that is 
comfortable and supports. 

1155
01:01:15,900 --> 01:01:20,300
Her foot and allows them to run 
without discomfort. 

1156
01:01:21,300 --> 01:01:25,200
If you have a more experienced 
Runner, who's a High School 

1157
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:29,000
freshman and let's say is 
running, cross-country, that 

1158
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:32,400
Runner is certainly old enough 
to run in spikes but they need 

1159
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:35,100
to introduce them gradually 
whether their cross-country 

1160
01:01:35,100 --> 01:01:39,400
spikes or tricks bikes. 
You certainly wouldn't use them 

1161
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:42,800
for like the first meet of the 
year, you would want to use them

1162
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:48,000
a little bit in practice to To 
the mechanics of running in 

1163
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:53,400
those shoes. 
I know that in high school track

1164
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:56,300
and cross-country, there's a ton
of kids using Super Shoes. 

1165
01:01:56,800 --> 01:02:02,300
And I think the answer as to if 
that is appropriate or not, 

1166
01:02:02,300 --> 01:02:05,900
depends on the level of running 
development, that that athlete 

1167
01:02:05,900 --> 01:02:09,900
is at. 
And in no situation. 

1168
01:02:09,900 --> 01:02:15,000
Should a anyone teenager or 
adult be doing all of their 

1169
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:18,100
training and just super shoes. 
We definitely Echo that and I 

1170
01:02:18,108 --> 01:02:22,600
think Andrew and I we did a 
podcast together on this on this

1171
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:24,800
conversation. 
So to reiterate that I think 

1172
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:28,400
that yes depending on who you 
are so your experience level, 

1173
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:32,000
she kind of dictate the the the 
type, the advancement, how 

1174
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:34,200
advanced of a shoe you're 
looking at. 

1175
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:39,400
But regardless of who you are 
you do need a basic trainer for 

1176
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:42,200
the majority of your miles. 
If you are a beginner Runner, 

1177
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:45,100
you don't need to worry about 
spikes and Super Shoes. 

1178
01:02:45,100 --> 01:02:49,200
Yet you To get used to the act 
of running so I basic trainer 

1179
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:52,000
that again. 
Think of your run Catskill, 

1180
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:53,800
right? 
You don't need to have the 

1181
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:55,900
lightest possible shoe of the 
most advanced Tech. 

1182
01:02:55,900 --> 01:02:59,500
You have something that fits 
well on their foot that rides 

1183
01:02:59,500 --> 01:03:02,100
really, really well, the feels 
good in the heel and the 

1184
01:03:02,100 --> 01:03:05,200
forefoot and feel stable enough 
for that person, right? 

1185
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:06,900
And that's going to mean 
different things for different 

1186
01:03:06,900 --> 01:03:07,600
people. 
Okay. 

1187
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:10,300
Not too much, not too little 
just right? 

1188
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:14,400
And they just need to go out and
run and not have and not worry 

1189
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:17,700
anymore about that. 
You're more advanced Runner, 

1190
01:03:17,700 --> 01:03:18,700
right? 
The one who has a lot more 

1191
01:03:18,700 --> 01:03:23,400
experienced, same concept where 
you need a daily training shoe, 

1192
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:25,700
that's going to get you through 
the miles with something and 

1193
01:03:25,700 --> 01:03:27,600
that's comfortable, right? 
Something you're going to want 

1194
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:31,100
to run in but it cannot be a 
spike or super shoe for the 

1195
01:03:31,100 --> 01:03:32,800
majority of your mom. 
You're not going to hopefully do

1196
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:35,000
the majority of miles in a spot 
although you know what I 

1197
01:03:35,100 --> 01:03:39,800
actually kind of try to do that 
so not judgment on that because 

1198
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:44,900
I'm an idiot it was the whole 
minimal thing back in high 

1199
01:03:44,900 --> 01:03:47,500
school college that I Going. 
Oh, can I just run in Spikes all

1200
01:03:47,500 --> 01:03:49,200
the time? 
And actually gently did that for

1201
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:51,200
like weeks on end and then 
wondered why I had Achilles 

1202
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:53,700
problems. 
So if you're more advanced 

1203
01:03:53,700 --> 01:03:56,600
though the same concept, right? 
So if you've been doing a base 

1204
01:03:56,600 --> 01:04:00,500
phase and your been only running
and trainers, it doesn't matter 

1205
01:04:00,500 --> 01:04:03,800
how good Super Shoes are spikes 
feel you need to ease into them,

1206
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:06,100
right? 
Doing some strides of the end of

1207
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:09,200
your easy runs in those shoes. 
Kind of getting used to that 

1208
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:12,400
stuff slowly easing the men 
during workouts, right? 

1209
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:16,000
And then waiting a little bit so
my in college my Which was 

1210
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:19,200
really good about this. 
Our first race of the Season, we

1211
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,900
were not allowed to wear spikes 
and this is before Super Shoes. 

1212
01:04:21,900 --> 01:04:24,600
We had to use trainers or light 
weight trainers, which being a 

1213
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:26,800
shoe gig. 
I knew exactly what I was 

1214
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:30,500
getting but I would use you 
know, I would use racing flats 

1215
01:04:30,500 --> 01:04:34,400
or we're crazy at that time. 
But we were not allowed to use 

1216
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:38,500
spikes and it really helped us 
he's in and definitely decreased

1217
01:04:38,500 --> 01:04:41,000
our injury rate, but yeah, it 
doesn't matter. 

1218
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:43,500
Even if the Super Shoes make you
feel good, they're there. 

1219
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:45,700
They have some unique effect on 
your mechanics and if you're not

1220
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:51,600
Use that, any very new stimulus 
has a potential for irritation. 

1221
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:54,500
You want to stay consistent, so 
he's into the more extreme 

1222
01:04:54,500 --> 01:04:56,400
things. 
Make sure you stay in line with 

1223
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:58,900
the kind of more quote unquote, 
not boring. 

1224
01:04:58,900 --> 01:05:01,500
But you kind of need a boring 
training shoe for the majority 

1225
01:05:01,500 --> 01:05:03,700
or miles kind of like our 
beginner Runners guide. 

1226
01:05:03,700 --> 01:05:06,400
Yeah, that's what I feel like 
there's a lot of similarities 

1227
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:09,800
when it comes to new Runners and
high school Runners who are also

1228
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:12,300
new Runners. 
I don't think that there's any 

1229
01:05:12,700 --> 01:05:15,200
official literature that looks 
specifically at the interaction 

1230
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:18,400
of shoes. 
Shoes and youth Runners to my, 

1231
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:20,800
to my knowledge at least. 
But I think the other question I

1232
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:24,200
often get is, should I get from 
the parents is like should I get

1233
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:27,900
them a stability shoe? 
And because they haven't ran 

1234
01:05:27,900 --> 01:05:32,200
before and I also don't say yes 
to that either. 

1235
01:05:32,900 --> 01:05:35,100
Matt, you got something to say, 
maybe go ahead. 

1236
01:05:35,100 --> 01:05:38,700
So there's some very interesting
research that I was aware of and

1237
01:05:38,700 --> 01:05:43,800
had to go find there is no 
relationship in youth athletes. 

1238
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:45,600
So the common test that's used 
by the way. 

1239
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:49,400
Look at quote-unquote pronation 
is the navicular drop test, 

1240
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:52,600
where you kind of have your 
sitting and you have your feet 

1241
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:55,200
flat on the ground and you come 
up to standing and you look at 

1242
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:58,400
how much your foot drops and 
it's been shown actually the 

1243
01:05:58,400 --> 01:05:59,800
same thing with motion else's 
stuff. 

1244
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:02,300
There is not a relationship 
between the Vic Euler drop or 

1245
01:06:02,300 --> 01:06:06,600
pronation and injury rate in 
youth athlete, right? 

1246
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:10,800
So as shoe that as a stability 
shoe is going to work better for

1247
01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:15,700
those who have a history of 
pronation related injuries like 

1248
01:06:15,700 --> 01:06:18,300
Those two problems or maybe a 
little Achilles stuff, things 

1249
01:06:18,300 --> 01:06:20,000
like that. 
But just because your new 

1250
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:22,600
Runner, doesn't mean you need a 
stability shoe, right? 

1251
01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:25,200
And it just because you, pronate
doesn't mean that's going to 

1252
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:27,800
cause you problems. 
You need to see what fits 

1253
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:29,300
comfortable. 
So if you put a stability shoe 

1254
01:06:29,300 --> 01:06:31,300
on you like, dang, this is 
comfortable. 

1255
01:06:31,300 --> 01:06:32,400
This feels a lot better than 
other ones. 

1256
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:34,900
Yeah, that might be a good 
thing, right? 

1257
01:06:34,900 --> 01:06:38,600
But don't be like, don't freak 
out about Sly Keiko pronation 

1258
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:40,100
and things like that. 
You need to find a shoe that's 

1259
01:06:40,100 --> 01:06:43,000
comfortable first. 
I'd also say, don't don't be 

1260
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:48,400
afraid to buy special. 
For if you're new here, kids 

1261
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:52,000
going out for cross-country or 
track for the first time get a 

1262
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:56,600
shoe that's a year old, get it 
on sale or get one of those like

1263
01:06:56,600 --> 01:07:00,700
hundred dollar ninety, a hundred
dollar training shoes as well. 

1264
01:07:00,700 --> 01:07:03,800
I think those are great options,
test the waters. 

1265
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:06,000
There's nothing like inherent 
about those shoes that is going 

1266
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:10,400
to cause injury so I would 
definitely look at you know, 

1267
01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:13,000
sales from the year before you 
can get them a nice pair of 

1268
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:15,600
shoes for even you know, 60 70 
dollars. 

1269
01:07:15,700 --> 01:07:21,600
If you find the right sail. 
So I would definitely there's 

1270
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:24,600
nothing wrong with that and it 
doesn't make your, you're at 

1271
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:29,300
your kid at a disadvantage to do
something like that. 

1272
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:32,300
Matt go ahead. 
I would say not to throw names 

1273
01:07:32,300 --> 01:07:34,800
out here because nobody's 
sponsoring this episode that I 

1274
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:38,700
the shoe companies are not at 
all but Saucony Brooks a lot of 

1275
01:07:38,708 --> 01:07:42,300
these companies actually have 
really solid hundred-dollar 

1276
01:07:42,300 --> 01:07:45,900
training shoes that we've 
actually been growing to like We

1277
01:07:45,900 --> 01:07:47,300
enjoyed over the last couple 
years. 

1278
01:07:47,300 --> 01:07:50,300
So again, look at those and 
sales does fight as long as a 

1279
01:07:50,308 --> 01:07:53,400
year old going Beyond a couple 
years, you need to be careful 

1280
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:55,800
because the phones do break down
there is evidence on that. 

1281
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:59,100
But last year's model, some of 
these hundred dollar ones are 

1282
01:07:59,100 --> 01:08:02,100
great options if you're just 
introducing someone to running. 

1283
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:05,200
Well we're going to wrap things 
up so I think it's only app that

1284
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:07,900
David has our last word David, 
anything else. 

1285
01:08:08,100 --> 01:08:11,100
Anything else that you want to 
say about this topic? 

1286
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:15,000
Chill, relax, have fun. 
You're in high school. 

1287
01:08:18,100 --> 01:08:20,500
G is for my first week of 
cross-country. 

1288
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:24,200
Yeah it's running. 
Yeah, just run into something 

1289
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:26,000
comfortable. 
Like you can go to the local 

1290
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:27,899
riding shop. 
I went to the big five I think 

1291
01:08:27,899 --> 01:08:31,800
for my first pair you know it's 
like just run around in it. 

1292
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:34,200
It's get a little bit better at 
the sport practice it. 

1293
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:38,000
When you feel like that time is 
there I feel like you'll know it

1294
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:40,700
internally at that point you're 
like oh I think I'm ready to 

1295
01:08:40,700 --> 01:08:42,600
like put something on that's a 
little faster. 

1296
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:45,600
I want to genuinely start 
competing. 

1297
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:47,000
That's a little bit more than 
that. 

1298
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:51,200
Time is is here but if you're 
starting this just go have fun, 

1299
01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:53,000
you have some new teammates, 
you're going to have some new 

1300
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:57,100
friends and there's not a whole 
lot of expectation at that 

1301
01:08:57,100 --> 01:08:59,200
point. 
Anyways, so you're gonna be sore

1302
01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:01,700
all the time so just expect it. 
Yeah, give me tired. 

1303
01:09:01,700 --> 01:09:03,600
You're hungry. 
You're gonna sleep a lot. 

1304
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:06,399
Like it's gonna be so much fun. 
Good. 

1305
01:09:06,700 --> 01:09:10,000
Well, thank you to all of you 
who have been following Along on

1306
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:11,899
this journey with us with the 
podcast. 

1307
01:09:11,899 --> 01:09:14,700
We've seen a lot of growth and 
so if you haven't yet, it really

1308
01:09:14,700 --> 01:09:18,300
does help us out. 
If you Jump on Apple podcasts or

1309
01:09:18,300 --> 01:09:21,899
Spotify And subscribe and rate. 
The podcast that will help us 

1310
01:09:21,899 --> 01:09:23,800
grow and continue to reach more 
people. 

1311
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:27,500
If you like what we're doing, 
otherwise, you can check out 

1312
01:09:27,500 --> 01:09:29,800
everything else that we've 
talked about today, referencing 

1313
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:33,200
some old podcasts, and our new 
Runner guide and it's all that 

1314
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:36,399
stuff is on dark spring.com. 
So, thanks all for this 

1315
01:09:36,399 --> 01:09:37,200
discussion. 
It was fun. 

1316
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:39,399
Having us all together and we'll
talk to you soon.