1 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,828 Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Doctors of Running podcast, 2 00:00:11,828 --> 00:00:14,534 where we, a group of doctors of physical therapy, discuss the 3 00:00:14,534 --> 00:00:17,010 art and science of running and the stuff that we put on our 4 00:00:17,010 --> 00:00:19,218 feet. Today at the roundtable, we have 5 00:00:19,218 --> 00:00:21,399 the founder of Doctors of Running, Dr. Matthew Klein. 6 00:00:21,719 --> 00:00:23,719 We also have Dr. David Salas and myself. 7 00:00:23,719 --> 00:00:26,459 I'm Nathan Brown, and we're excited to get to talk together. 8 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,966 As always, this podcast is in part able to just happen because 9 00:00:30,966 --> 00:00:34,596 Rabbit have been awesome partners for us this year in 10 00:00:34,596 --> 00:00:36,845 2026. They've been helping kind of 11 00:00:36,845 --> 00:00:40,030 gear us up for all our runs. 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So what we want to talk about 22 00:01:11,472 --> 00:01:14,996 today, when we get to our main segment, is the reality that 23 00:01:14,996 --> 00:01:18,824 we've had a lot of different racing issues that have come out 24 00:01:18,824 --> 00:01:22,359 in the last couple months. And so we wanted to do a little 25 00:01:22,359 --> 00:01:24,079 bit of a roundup of some of those. 26 00:01:24,079 --> 00:01:27,085 But before we get to that part of the episode, we've got to 27 00:01:27,085 --> 00:01:29,083 always talk about what we have in for testing. 28 00:01:29,083 --> 00:01:31,739 So let's talk about what we've got in for testing right now. 29 00:01:31,879 --> 00:01:34,319 Let's save our racing models for that conversation. 30 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,360 But David, what have you been getting some miles in? 31 00:01:37,500 --> 00:01:39,127 Also, I'm loving your bandana right now. 32 00:01:39,127 --> 00:01:40,983 It's a total vibe. And I'm digging it. 33 00:01:40,983 --> 00:01:42,839 Yeah, I feel like it goes pretty hard. 34 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:44,636 It does. It does. 35 00:01:44,636 --> 00:01:48,907 You know, I got this colorway specifically to match with our 36 00:01:48,907 --> 00:01:50,459 singlet. Oh, yeah, sick. 37 00:01:51,220 --> 00:01:54,230 Yeah, this is what I actually love with the DOR thing that 38 00:01:54,230 --> 00:01:55,980 they have. The kind of teal turquoise. 39 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,791 Yeah, it was a very intentional move for this specific bandana 40 00:01:59,791 --> 00:02:04,554 in the event that I rocked DOR. I kind of love the pink accent 41 00:02:04,554 --> 00:02:08,652 with it, too, though. That is in the same, but I love 42 00:02:08,652 --> 00:02:10,699 all that. Yeah, it's pretty cool. 43 00:02:10,770 --> 00:02:14,263 For those who are listening, I'm wearing, it's technically an ice 44 00:02:14,263 --> 00:02:18,959 bandana, so it probably would not be worn in this manner. 45 00:02:18,959 --> 00:02:22,939 I'm using it functionally, but I'm wearing it as a headband 46 00:02:22,939 --> 00:02:25,205 currently. And it goes pretty hard. 47 00:02:25,205 --> 00:02:26,976 I like it. You can thank Amber. 48 00:02:26,976 --> 00:02:30,183 Amber wanted to do that. She was like, let's put the 49 00:02:30,183 --> 00:02:31,331 headband in. Let's do the bandana headband. 50 00:02:31,331 --> 00:02:32,639 I was like, all right. I love it. 51 00:02:34,279 --> 00:02:37,036 But yeah, I feel like I've been testing a lot of racing shoes, 52 00:02:37,036 --> 00:02:39,580 so that's going to take out like half of what I'm doing. 53 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,980 But that's okay. You know, let me move this to 54 00:02:42,980 --> 00:02:45,364 the side. One, I just uploaded to YouTube 55 00:02:45,364 --> 00:02:48,768 via shorts, so it should be coming out soon. 56 00:02:48,768 --> 00:02:52,576 Salomon Aero Blaze 4 Gravel, so kind of a road trail, 57 00:02:52,576 --> 00:02:56,537 all-terrain type of trainer. And I was really curious with 58 00:02:56,537 --> 00:03:00,067 this shoe specifically because with the Aero Blaze series in 59 00:03:00,067 --> 00:03:03,814 general, the 3 and the 4 are the two that I've run in, I have 60 00:03:03,814 --> 00:03:07,340 struggled with both road models. I have not been able to handle 61 00:03:07,340 --> 00:03:08,840 them from a stability standpoint. 62 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,834 My midfoot always hurts. My plantar muscles always hurt. 63 00:03:11,834 --> 00:03:17,119 And in the Aero Blaze 3 Gravel, I was able to run in, and it was 64 00:03:17,119 --> 00:03:20,923 actually nice. made one of my lists for, like, top lightweight 65 00:03:20,923 --> 00:03:23,961 trainers last year. So I was excited for this one. 66 00:03:23,961 --> 00:03:26,722 You know, it sounds kind of weird being excited for a 67 00:03:26,722 --> 00:03:29,829 gravel, but I was curious to see my experience because I did 68 00:03:29,829 --> 00:03:32,129 struggle with the 4 version on the road as well. 69 00:03:32,129 --> 00:03:34,199 And yeah, it cleaned up a lot of it. 70 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:36,088 So it did gain a little weight, though. 71 00:03:36,088 --> 00:03:38,245 It's, like, in the nine-ounce range now, where the previous 72 00:03:38,245 --> 00:03:39,405 one was in the eight-ounce range. 73 00:03:39,405 --> 00:03:41,641 But they did buffer it up a little bit more, so, like, 74 00:03:41,641 --> 00:03:44,078 there's a little extra protection and reinforcement 75 00:03:44,078 --> 00:03:46,323 along the upper. Two-and-a-half-millimeter lugs, 76 00:03:46,323 --> 00:03:49,260 so not super deep, but they're pretty grippy. 77 00:03:49,260 --> 00:03:52,340 It's the Contragrip also that they use in the trail models. 78 00:03:52,340 --> 00:03:56,240 For the large part, the majority of the shoe is the same, you 79 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,039 know, same Vita TP, like, midsole, and, yeah, it's nice. 80 00:03:59,399 --> 00:04:00,713 You know, it's nice and rhythmic. 81 00:04:00,713 --> 00:04:02,899 I think it retails around, like, $140, I believe, too. 82 00:04:04,039 --> 00:04:07,225 So, not a bad option on the market. 83 00:04:07,225 --> 00:04:11,205 You know, it's pretty nice. I could be a little. 84 00:04:11,205 --> 00:04:15,447 So, moving forward, going next Saturday, by the time this airs, 85 00:04:15,447 --> 00:04:18,819 I will have already run the event, but I'll be doing Gravel 86 00:04:18,819 --> 00:04:20,720 Anza down in Los Angeles on Saturday. 87 00:04:22,239 --> 00:04:24,788 Part of the event, they sent some stuff over for the gravel 88 00:04:24,788 --> 00:04:28,284 collection. And so this just came in, so I 89 00:04:28,284 --> 00:04:32,215 have not run this yet. But this is the Salomon Gravel 90 00:04:32,215 --> 00:04:34,000 Concept. And it's pretty nice. 91 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,331 I ran that shoe. It's a plush. 92 00:04:36,331 --> 00:04:39,656 Yeah, it's cool. And it's also got a plate there 93 00:04:39,656 --> 00:04:42,199 or something. Yeah, it's like a forefoot 94 00:04:42,199 --> 00:04:43,687 plate. I think so. 95 00:04:43,687 --> 00:04:47,399 Yeah, I remember, I really enjoyed running in that shoe. 96 00:04:48,059 --> 00:04:51,120 They sent it to me. I don't know why I got sent it. 97 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,940 This is not other people on our team, but it was fun. 98 00:04:53,940 --> 00:04:57,555 It was fun to run in easy runs, Green Circle Trail by us is a 99 00:04:57,555 --> 00:04:59,239 crushed granite. It felt good on there. 100 00:04:59,359 --> 00:05:02,959 I don't need gravel or trail shoes for that trail, but it 101 00:05:02,959 --> 00:05:05,619 felt really nice. It has a much livelier foam 102 00:05:05,619 --> 00:05:07,747 than, like, everything else that they're putting on. 103 00:05:07,747 --> 00:05:11,284 It's softer. I would say softer, especially. 104 00:05:11,284 --> 00:05:16,260 It's fun and feels lightweight. Yeah, so I'm excited. 105 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:18,848 And it's got more of a bootie construction as well, where it 106 00:05:18,848 --> 00:05:21,297 just kind of comes up a little bit higher, really holds the 107 00:05:21,297 --> 00:05:23,286 foot and ankle. So, yeah, I'll be running in the 108 00:05:23,286 --> 00:05:25,774 race in this. I'll probably get a run in it 109 00:05:25,774 --> 00:05:27,376 before the race. You know, definitely. 110 00:05:27,376 --> 00:05:29,779 We record on a Sunday. I'm racing on Saturday. 111 00:05:29,980 --> 00:05:32,374 So I'll definitely get something in during the week. 112 00:05:32,374 --> 00:05:34,500 Thankfully, it's not like a marathon or anything. 113 00:05:34,779 --> 00:05:36,750 So it's not like I'm not too worried mileage-wise. 114 00:05:36,750 --> 00:05:38,279 At the longest, I'll be running five. 115 00:05:39,399 --> 00:05:42,891 That's how far the race is, is five miles? 116 00:05:42,891 --> 00:05:47,029 Yeah, well, so there's, depending on how things go, I 117 00:05:47,029 --> 00:05:51,826 may or may not be running a five-mile race, or I'll be doing 118 00:05:51,826 --> 00:05:55,140 a one-and-a-half-mile race with a prelim and a final. 119 00:05:55,329 --> 00:05:57,657 Oh, gotcha. So right now we're currently in 120 00:05:57,657 --> 00:06:00,644 the process of building a team, and if that team falls through, 121 00:06:00,644 --> 00:06:01,628 then we're running the five-mile race. 122 00:06:01,628 --> 00:06:02,940 Because they have two of us. Got it. 123 00:06:03,959 --> 00:06:05,919 And there's a chance that I might just do both. 124 00:06:05,919 --> 00:06:07,874 It might just be a big mileage day for me. 125 00:06:07,874 --> 00:06:08,459 Great. We'll see. 126 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,328 But yeah, so that's the Gravel Concept there. 127 00:06:11,328 --> 00:06:14,784 You can see, like, it's just got kind of a knobby outsole there, 128 00:06:14,784 --> 00:06:18,098 but it's not like, they're not, like, lugs per se. 129 00:06:18,098 --> 00:06:20,452 So it's grippy on gravel and dirt. 130 00:06:20,452 --> 00:06:23,140 I think it's going to be really nice. 131 00:06:23,459 --> 00:06:27,552 So I'm excited to try them. And then one here that we have, 132 00:06:27,552 --> 00:06:31,320 which I would be very impressed if our listeners have heard of, 133 00:06:32,019 --> 00:06:34,500 is the Swift Equis. Equis? 134 00:06:34,500 --> 00:06:39,460 I think it's Equis, EQUS. It's a company, they're based 135 00:06:39,460 --> 00:06:43,683 out of the East Coast. And yeah, they said they were 136 00:06:43,683 --> 00:06:46,431 nice enough to send some pairs over and have us get some 137 00:06:46,431 --> 00:06:48,667 thoughts on them. Relatively young company, so 138 00:06:48,667 --> 00:06:51,403 we'll see. Their goal is to try and make 139 00:06:51,403 --> 00:06:54,764 affordable pairs, and everything is right around 150 within their 140 00:06:54,764 --> 00:06:57,353 lineup. So yeah, this is kind of the 141 00:06:57,353 --> 00:06:58,968 lightweight trainer of the bunch. 142 00:06:58,968 --> 00:07:02,785 It is crazy that if a goal is to make affordable pairs, we're 143 00:07:02,785 --> 00:07:05,119 looking at 150 now. I mean, I'm just thinking about 144 00:07:05,429 --> 00:07:09,049 we just did that comparison of like in 2016 versus now, like 145 00:07:09,049 --> 00:07:13,297 the last 10 years, it's been a very big difference in what 146 00:07:13,297 --> 00:07:16,276 costs are for shoes. And then I just got a few more 147 00:07:16,276 --> 00:07:18,260 here, but I'll be quick on these ones. 148 00:07:18,420 --> 00:07:20,956 One of these is kind of like two in one. 149 00:07:20,956 --> 00:07:24,184 And this is the Teva Hurricane Trail Cider, definitely, and 150 00:07:24,184 --> 00:07:28,405 this is the Gore-Tex version, GTX, and then I have the low 151 00:07:28,405 --> 00:07:32,527 version and the mid versions. The mid goes hard. 152 00:07:32,527 --> 00:07:35,586 I feel like I can just lifestyle. 153 00:07:35,586 --> 00:07:38,640 Yeah, for sure. This is so nice. 154 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,550 You can tell it's like crafted well. 155 00:07:41,550 --> 00:07:45,131 You know, it's a nice upper. Everything is just built really 156 00:07:45,131 --> 00:07:48,271 well, construction-wise on it. Now, this is different than the 157 00:07:48,271 --> 00:07:50,961 Trail Peak. If you've heard me talk about 158 00:07:50,961 --> 00:07:54,131 that previously, where it was like low ounces, ATP, midsole, 159 00:07:54,131 --> 00:07:57,119 like responsive, lively. This is more just like long down 160 00:07:57,119 --> 00:07:59,167 on the trails. You could hike in this. 161 00:07:59,167 --> 00:08:02,239 This is like, but it is, you can run in it too. 162 00:08:02,380 --> 00:08:05,899 It's meant to do kind of all the above, but it's meant to just be 163 00:08:05,899 --> 00:08:08,239 kind of a plush, but just stable offering as well. 164 00:08:08,899 --> 00:08:11,594 So definitely heavier in hand compared to the Trail Peak, but 165 00:08:11,594 --> 00:08:14,534 I think it'll be nice. You know, kind of more of a 166 00:08:14,534 --> 00:08:17,983 lofty shoe than like a speedy shoe. 167 00:08:17,983 --> 00:08:23,635 But yeah, we got that one. Is that mid-upper runnable, or 168 00:08:23,635 --> 00:08:29,055 was it more like OB? If you're in the mid, you should 169 00:08:29,055 --> 00:08:31,765 probably hike. You're probably hiking, but you 170 00:08:31,765 --> 00:08:33,700 could run. It's pretty thick. 171 00:08:34,179 --> 00:08:38,438 That's what I was curious about. So it's pretty built in, almost 172 00:08:38,438 --> 00:08:41,625 like a boot. And then it's also a Gore-Tex 173 00:08:41,625 --> 00:08:43,663 upper. So this is one of those things 174 00:08:43,663 --> 00:08:46,372 you're probably not going to want to run a bunch of miles in 175 00:08:46,372 --> 00:08:48,809 it. But it feels great lockdown-wise 176 00:08:48,809 --> 00:08:51,851 on your foot. And the cushioning on the foam 177 00:08:51,851 --> 00:08:55,589 is actually pretty soft, too. But it's like that durable 178 00:08:55,589 --> 00:08:58,061 cushioning sensation. It's not like a super bouncy 179 00:08:58,061 --> 00:09:01,005 compliant foam. It just kind of takes the load 180 00:09:01,005 --> 00:09:01,649 well. Yeah. 181 00:09:01,649 --> 00:09:05,835 Yeah, and I just got one more, and that'll be the Altra Vanish 182 00:09:05,835 --> 00:09:07,558 Tempo 2. Yeah, yep. 183 00:09:07,558 --> 00:09:12,222 And, yeah, we'll see. I think I had the Carbon, but 184 00:09:12,222 --> 00:09:16,037 not the Tempo. So this will be my first 185 00:09:16,037 --> 00:09:18,249 experience. I know the team has had a little 186 00:09:18,249 --> 00:09:20,059 bit of issues with it fitting a little bit short. 187 00:09:21,159 --> 00:09:24,864 It definitely does fit short if you're in between sizes go up, 188 00:09:24,864 --> 00:09:27,020 for sure. Volume's a little bit low. 189 00:09:27,190 --> 00:09:30,096 I think I'll be okay, true to size, but this is definitely one 190 00:09:30,096 --> 00:09:34,144 of those shoes that dances on that line. where if you're in 191 00:09:34,144 --> 00:09:37,021 any doubt, just go up. For sure. 192 00:09:37,021 --> 00:09:40,719 Yeah, but that's what I got. Yeah, lightweight trainer. 193 00:09:41,219 --> 00:09:44,068 Matt, what about you? So I'll follow up on that, that 194 00:09:44,068 --> 00:09:47,715 I also have the Altra Vanish Tempo 2, and I've actually just 195 00:09:47,715 --> 00:09:50,784 a long run in it. I've got a couple workouts, and 196 00:09:50,784 --> 00:09:54,056 I'm actually really enjoying it. I almost think I might be liking 197 00:09:54,056 --> 00:09:57,570 it more than the Vanish Carbon, and I kind of see these the same 198 00:09:57,570 --> 00:09:59,579 way. Even though I think Altra's 199 00:09:59,579 --> 00:10:03,069 trying to pitch this, the Vanish Tempo as a super trainer, I 200 00:10:03,069 --> 00:10:05,923 think I see it more along the lines of like the Endorphin Pro, 201 00:10:05,923 --> 00:10:08,890 Endorphin Speed where you know, similar concept, one's a little 202 00:10:08,890 --> 00:10:11,860 bit more flexible, but I'm getting more bounce out of the 203 00:10:11,860 --> 00:10:14,033 Vanish Tempo. I've had some very good workouts 204 00:10:14,033 --> 00:10:17,023 where I went way too fast and had a hard time really 205 00:10:17,023 --> 00:10:18,639 controlling it and then paid for it later. 206 00:10:18,639 --> 00:10:21,505 But this morning, I thought it was going to be too bouncy for 207 00:10:21,505 --> 00:10:25,173 one run and it did great. I ran a new route in Newark that 208 00:10:25,173 --> 00:10:28,192 I pulled Regina out for. She said no hills and I put 209 00:10:28,192 --> 00:10:32,044 hills in there and did fine. I have to push the stroller so I 210 00:10:32,044 --> 00:10:33,691 get to choose the route most of the time. 211 00:10:33,691 --> 00:10:36,348 But it's been great. I think the only issue that have 212 00:10:36,348 --> 00:10:39,186 been mentioned is, A, it does, I think, because not necessarily 213 00:10:39,186 --> 00:10:42,663 it fits short, because how low the volume is around, like, toe 214 00:10:42,663 --> 00:10:45,239 box area, that it can feel a little short. 215 00:10:45,359 --> 00:10:47,834 Luckily, on the run, I haven't had any issues with that. 216 00:10:47,834 --> 00:10:49,179 It's been fine. Toes are fine. 217 00:10:49,919 --> 00:10:54,414 My issue is that, unlike the Vanish Carbon 3, that feels like 218 00:10:54,414 --> 00:10:58,683 a 4mm drop, maybe even a teeny bit higher, based on how the 219 00:10:58,683 --> 00:11:00,534 plate's spoon. I think with a little bit more 220 00:11:00,534 --> 00:11:02,946 flexibility with the Pebax plate and this really nice bouncy 221 00:11:02,946 --> 00:11:05,223 foam, this actually feels like zero or negative drop. 222 00:11:05,223 --> 00:11:09,113 So I had to put heel lifts in these to be able to run in them. 223 00:11:09,113 --> 00:11:11,773 And it's been mostly fine with that, but just, yeah, just make 224 00:11:11,773 --> 00:11:15,207 sure, even though it says four, that will vary depending on how 225 00:11:15,207 --> 00:11:18,425 you land, how you load the shoe, but really nice snappy shoe that 226 00:11:18,425 --> 00:11:21,419 can do. Long runs, it can pick up the 227 00:11:21,419 --> 00:11:24,164 pace really well. So yeah, I've been enjoying it 228 00:11:24,164 --> 00:11:26,299 so far. It is definitely wide, though, 229 00:11:26,460 --> 00:11:30,130 and I had some slippage turning. Wide in the midfoot. 230 00:11:30,130 --> 00:11:34,203 Yeah, wide in the midfoot and the forefoot where I just kind 231 00:11:34,203 --> 00:11:37,336 of like, I turn really quick and it's like, oh, that's not the 232 00:11:37,336 --> 00:11:39,786 most comfortable thing. But yeah, other than that, it's 233 00:11:39,786 --> 00:11:42,196 been great. So I think this is a really good 234 00:11:42,196 --> 00:11:45,369 upgrade from the original, which I did run and I had to purchase 235 00:11:45,369 --> 00:11:46,707 it. I thought it was good. 236 00:11:46,707 --> 00:11:50,363 It was not spectacular. It was just, it was good for the 237 00:11:50,363 --> 00:11:53,045 time. Just to add my two cents, from a 238 00:11:53,045 --> 00:11:57,590 fit standpoint, When I go inside, like the toe guard is 239 00:11:57,590 --> 00:12:01,099 just rubbing on my toes when I go in. 240 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,080 So I know I'm going to be looking for half-size up, kind 241 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:05,520 of like what David was referencing. 242 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,157 It's good to hear y'all's experience, too. 243 00:12:08,157 --> 00:12:12,827 The other thing, interestingly, Matt, when I did my run in it, I 244 00:12:12,827 --> 00:12:16,087 noticed it felt just kind of firm and more ground-connected 245 00:12:16,087 --> 00:12:19,696 than bouncy. So I find the Vanish Carbon more 246 00:12:19,696 --> 00:12:24,600 kind of like sink and bounce. I did a long run in that shoe. 247 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:28,724 I thought that the... Oh my gosh, blanking on the 248 00:12:28,724 --> 00:12:29,528 name. Carbon... 249 00:12:29,528 --> 00:12:31,136 No, not Vanish. Vanish. 250 00:12:31,136 --> 00:12:33,235 Vanish Tempo. Vanish Tempo, thank you. 251 00:12:33,235 --> 00:12:36,280 I found that to be more like firm connected, but you could 252 00:12:36,380 --> 00:12:39,752 turn it over quick because it's just like you're not losing much 253 00:12:39,752 --> 00:12:41,438 in it. It's just a firm... 254 00:12:41,438 --> 00:12:43,912 It feels lower connected to the ground. 255 00:12:43,912 --> 00:12:47,088 I agree with you. I wouldn't categorize it as a 256 00:12:47,088 --> 00:12:50,102 super trainer like some of these other high huge shoes. 257 00:12:50,102 --> 00:12:53,332 I had the same experience where I was like How high is the 258 00:12:53,332 --> 00:12:55,179 stack? I know it's pretty decent, but I 259 00:12:55,179 --> 00:12:57,419 was like, this feels like it runs a lot lower. 260 00:12:57,559 --> 00:12:59,707 That's probably just the amount of the midsole compresses. 261 00:12:59,707 --> 00:13:02,114 But you are right. The Vanish Carbon 3 definitely 262 00:13:02,114 --> 00:13:04,859 feels like this thing is tall. This is high up the ground. 263 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,528 The Vanish Tempo does not feel like that. 264 00:13:07,528 --> 00:13:10,559 It feels much more grounded. Yeah, but yeah, it's been good. 265 00:13:12,159 --> 00:13:14,363 The other shoe I didn't expect to get my eyes on, I thought I 266 00:13:14,363 --> 00:13:17,118 was going to have to bail on this, and Nate was going to have 267 00:13:17,118 --> 00:13:19,887 to take the review, but I just finished it today, which means a 268 00:13:19,887 --> 00:13:23,573 couple of weeks ago, is the Mizuno, I keep calling it Wave, 269 00:13:23,573 --> 00:13:26,219 but it's not. It's just the Mizuno Sky Prime, 270 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:28,751 which is their maximal stack height daily trainer. 271 00:13:28,751 --> 00:13:30,940 And I did not like this shoe initially. 272 00:13:31,099 --> 00:13:34,159 This toe box is really tapered, but I stuck with it because BJ 273 00:13:34,159 --> 00:13:36,039 told me he needs to write this review. 274 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,871 And even though it is, again, a little bit too low drop for me 275 00:13:39,871 --> 00:13:42,674 and some heel lifts fixed that, I actually really enjoyed this 276 00:13:42,674 --> 00:13:44,298 shoe. So I'm glad I listened to Nathan 277 00:13:44,298 --> 00:13:45,919 and kept with it. It's got some bounce. 278 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,468 I don't know if necessarily it's worth 200 bucks. 279 00:13:48,468 --> 00:13:51,780 That seems a little bit steep. The durability's been good, but 280 00:13:51,780 --> 00:13:55,129 yeah, it just feels like another one of the maximal trainers out 281 00:13:55,129 --> 00:13:57,640 there that's got a little more bounce to it. 282 00:13:57,989 --> 00:14:01,480 I really have enjoyed the ASICS Slow Cush, which I don't have 283 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,380 with me at the moment. Nate, I think, has that. 284 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,807 I'm really enjoying that shoe, but I think it's a worthy 285 00:14:07,807 --> 00:14:11,251 competitor if you can handle a tapered toe box and want a 286 00:14:11,251 --> 00:14:13,260 little bit more of a thicker upper. 287 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,354 Yeah. I will say the internet does 288 00:14:16,354 --> 00:14:19,498 seem to like the Sky Prime, too. other reviewers out there that 289 00:14:19,498 --> 00:14:22,685 I've seen. I very much prefer Slow Cush, 290 00:14:22,685 --> 00:14:25,659 but that's me. But yeah, Slow Cush, yeah, I 291 00:14:25,659 --> 00:14:28,299 love that. It's shoe of the year, maybe. 292 00:14:29,619 --> 00:14:31,328 Oh, just throwing that out there. 293 00:14:31,328 --> 00:14:33,600 Yeah. I did put that in the chat, 294 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,872 though. I was like, oh, Slow Cush or 295 00:14:35,872 --> 00:14:40,543 Cloud Monster, I did put that. After my first run, assuming 296 00:14:40,543 --> 00:14:44,380 you're just running easy miles, that's where it's worse. 297 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,964 You can't ask it to run fast. Yeah, no versatility, just easy 298 00:14:47,964 --> 00:14:49,900 miles, but it is. It is blissful. 299 00:14:50,099 --> 00:14:52,187 It's not as slow as I would have thought. 300 00:14:52,187 --> 00:14:54,039 It's been fine. It's got a little bit. 301 00:14:54,059 --> 00:14:55,840 Yeah, this bounce, it rolls really nicely. 302 00:14:56,059 --> 00:15:00,539 It's not like, I wouldn't want to do a workout in it, but it's 303 00:15:00,539 --> 00:15:02,459 not like, like, ploddy. It's fine. 304 00:15:02,459 --> 00:15:05,198 It's just great. It's a great day of psychology. 305 00:15:05,198 --> 00:15:07,462 Yeah. Let's call it the Slow Cush that 306 00:15:07,462 --> 00:15:08,311 you're surprised. Yeah. 307 00:15:08,311 --> 00:15:11,962 Oh, this is nice. I don't know what the heck, 308 00:15:11,962 --> 00:15:13,346 flux. What's the midsole? 309 00:15:13,346 --> 00:15:15,422 Flux capacitor. Oh, I know something. 310 00:15:15,422 --> 00:15:16,460 FF flux. Lux. 311 00:15:16,799 --> 00:15:18,784 Like, yeah, Lux. Like luxury. 312 00:15:18,784 --> 00:15:19,972 FF LUXE. Plus. 313 00:15:19,972 --> 00:15:21,952 Plus. Not FF LUXE capacitor. 314 00:15:21,952 --> 00:15:23,140 It's fine. Yeah. 315 00:15:25,479 --> 00:15:27,127 I've been running both of those two, Matt. 316 00:15:27,127 --> 00:15:29,179 Those two shoes are ones I've been getting miles in. 317 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:32,524 I also put out a video, I think, comparing these. 318 00:15:32,524 --> 00:15:36,159 That's live right now. But I kind of was like, if you 319 00:15:36,159 --> 00:15:38,949 just want, like, the really plush, soft experience with, 320 00:15:38,949 --> 00:15:42,049 like, maybe a little bounce, but really just cushion, pillowy 321 00:15:42,049 --> 00:15:46,200 soft, that's the Sky Prime. If you want a little bit of a 322 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,000 pop to that slow, then you're looking at Slow Cush. 323 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,520 So neither of these are my cup of tea. 324 00:15:51,799 --> 00:15:53,815 Like, I would never choose either of these. 325 00:15:53,815 --> 00:15:57,078 Just I don't like super soft. Both of them feel super soft, in 326 00:15:57,078 --> 00:16:00,004 my opinion. And I'm not looking for that for 327 00:16:00,004 --> 00:16:03,400 myself or even easy runs. So they're not my cup of tea. 328 00:16:03,559 --> 00:16:08,036 I go Cloud Monster Hyper seven out of seven times out of the 329 00:16:08,036 --> 00:16:11,400 week. But they both run in a similar 330 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:15,020 lane, but this one, the Sky Prime, more just pillowy. 331 00:16:16,559 --> 00:16:19,348 The Slow Cush, a little bit more pop to them. 332 00:16:19,348 --> 00:16:22,700 But they're both pleasant. None of them feel like a slog, 333 00:16:22,700 --> 00:16:26,900 which I think is a good thing to do if you're putting these out 334 00:16:26,900 --> 00:16:29,420 there. I think, like you said, Matt, 335 00:16:29,420 --> 00:16:32,748 with the upper for the Sky Prime, super stretchy. 336 00:16:32,748 --> 00:16:35,700 So it's snug, but it does open up. 337 00:16:36,099 --> 00:16:39,940 Even on the first run, it's very accommodating. 338 00:16:40,020 --> 00:16:43,512 There's these huge holes in it, and that allows it to just 339 00:16:43,512 --> 00:16:46,710 stretch and open up. But like I said, neither are for 340 00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:48,874 me. Yeah, I'm also, I think, a lot 341 00:16:48,874 --> 00:16:51,283 more sensitive because I've had the luxury of having some wider 342 00:16:51,283 --> 00:16:54,478 toe boxes recently. So I'm just like, oh man, this 343 00:16:54,478 --> 00:16:57,941 doesn't tell you. Other shoes that I have is the 344 00:16:57,941 --> 00:17:00,825 Hoka Speedgoat 7. I have the Gore-Tex version. 345 00:17:00,825 --> 00:17:03,419 I've been actually very impressed with this shoe. 346 00:17:03,619 --> 00:17:06,865 I think it's been a while since I've run a Speedgoat, like since 347 00:17:06,865 --> 00:17:10,154 I lived in California years ago. But yeah, I've tried this. 348 00:17:10,154 --> 00:17:12,824 I've done a couple miles in it. Grip is fantastic. 349 00:17:12,824 --> 00:17:14,420 It digs in really, really nicely. 350 00:17:14,979 --> 00:17:17,680 And it's been very nice, again, with the Gore-Tex upper, 351 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,380 waterproof upper to handle some rain here in the Northwest. 352 00:17:20,510 --> 00:17:22,589 So that's some fine feet have been mostly fine. 353 00:17:22,589 --> 00:17:24,199 Get a little warm, but not awful. 354 00:17:24,858 --> 00:17:27,858 The other thing that I've been a little bit impressed with is 355 00:17:27,858 --> 00:17:30,507 that it definitely, again, even though it feels it's supposedly 356 00:17:30,507 --> 00:17:33,119 heavier than the prior versions, midsole is a little bit softer. 357 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,199 There's a teeny bit more bounce. It's not responsive. 358 00:17:35,199 --> 00:17:37,843 It's just got a little bit better roll and bounce than I 359 00:17:37,843 --> 00:17:39,934 would expect. The 5mm drop, the lower drop 360 00:17:39,934 --> 00:17:43,448 does bug me a little bit, but I've been able to handle it with 361 00:17:43,448 --> 00:17:44,578 the rocker. It's very stable. 362 00:17:44,578 --> 00:17:46,380 The top liner sidewalls does a great job. 363 00:17:46,819 --> 00:17:49,499 My only gripe is the classic Hoka thing. 364 00:17:49,499 --> 00:17:52,178 The toe box is very tapered. So tapered. 365 00:17:52,178 --> 00:17:54,719 It's so tapered. Especially with, like, it's... 366 00:17:54,719 --> 00:17:56,248 The Gore-Tex upper makes it tough. 367 00:17:56,248 --> 00:17:58,280 I'm sure it does. Yeah, that's probably it. 368 00:17:58,339 --> 00:18:01,560 But, like, man, it really tapers quite a bit. 369 00:18:02,260 --> 00:18:06,280 And then the last one I have that we just put a review of not 370 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,496 too long ago is that I'm having the exact opposite experience of 371 00:18:09,496 --> 00:18:12,439 the rest of the team is the Saucony Endorphin Speed 6. 372 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:17,391 And I feel like this is the fastest speed that I've ever put 373 00:18:17,391 --> 00:18:20,099 on. I feel like it is faster than 374 00:18:20,099 --> 00:18:23,699 the Pro because I have run much faster in this than the Pro. 375 00:18:24,780 --> 00:18:27,680 It's upper feels like a speed, not surprising. 376 00:18:28,099 --> 00:18:30,872 The midsole is like one of the stiffest speeds I've ever 377 00:18:30,872 --> 00:18:33,140 experienced where everybody else said it was super comfortable. 378 00:18:33,979 --> 00:18:36,806 My first easy run in this was so uncomfortable. 379 00:18:36,806 --> 00:18:40,260 I was like, this is so stiff. Like, what is this? 380 00:18:40,699 --> 00:18:43,164 And the midsole is not unlike the last version, which is 381 00:18:43,164 --> 00:18:45,180 mushy. But as soon as I picked the pace 382 00:18:45,180 --> 00:18:47,997 up, I went, oh, okay. Now, yeah, speed, that's the 383 00:18:47,997 --> 00:18:50,616 correct term. So I have put some pretty fast 384 00:18:50,616 --> 00:18:53,103 workouts in this shoe. It's definitely still that 385 00:18:53,103 --> 00:18:56,299 stable, neutral ride with the top line, sidewalls, kind of the 386 00:18:56,299 --> 00:19:00,199 way things are designed. So it's really good for that 387 00:19:00,199 --> 00:19:03,069 regard. But man, it is stiff and 388 00:19:03,069 --> 00:19:05,780 responsive, that kind of firm, like there's plenty of cushions, 389 00:19:05,780 --> 00:19:07,160 but man, it's firm and responsive. 390 00:19:07,229 --> 00:19:08,755 It feels better the faster you go. 391 00:19:08,755 --> 00:19:10,494 But apparently that's the opposite experience for the 392 00:19:10,494 --> 00:19:13,645 entire rest of the team. So I don't know what... 393 00:19:13,645 --> 00:19:17,479 I have not run it. I have something to run it. 394 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,002 I think for me, though, like stepping into it, though, I 395 00:19:20,002 --> 00:19:22,219 think it is going to feel kind of snappier, quicker. 396 00:19:22,500 --> 00:19:26,247 I have a feeling I'm going to resonate with you, But I've just 397 00:19:26,247 --> 00:19:28,839 had so many other reviews. I've been wanting to. 398 00:19:30,219 --> 00:19:33,534 If it wasn't for the event and finishing long run miles on a 399 00:19:33,534 --> 00:19:37,114 shoe that we'll be talking about later, I would have ran in this 400 00:19:37,114 --> 00:19:37,939 yesterday. Or today. 401 00:19:37,939 --> 00:19:40,689 Wait, today's Sunday. Bro, this last week's been on a 402 00:19:40,689 --> 00:19:41,239 roll. Anyways. 403 00:19:43,599 --> 00:19:46,248 Sorry. Didn't mean to cut you off 404 00:19:46,248 --> 00:19:48,516 there. Well, I've gotten probably 35 405 00:19:48,516 --> 00:19:51,540 miles or even more in the Speed 6. 406 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,880 And I don't think we have opposite experiences, because 407 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:59,779 when I put this on, and after I got a couple runs in, I was 408 00:19:59,779 --> 00:20:04,399 like, oh, if I could sum up my review of this shoe, this is 409 00:20:04,399 --> 00:20:07,699 that it feels like an Endorphin Speed 1 or 2. 410 00:20:08,579 --> 00:20:12,632 It's just the Endorphin Speed. They have a new blend for their 411 00:20:12,632 --> 00:20:16,339 midsole, but it feels like the blend of midsoles of old. 412 00:20:17,099 --> 00:20:19,164 It just feels like it hasn't changed. 413 00:20:19,164 --> 00:20:21,812 Like, this is an Endorphin Speed, and I've enjoyed 414 00:20:21,812 --> 00:20:25,500 Endorphin Speeds, minus the first one, because it was too 415 00:20:25,500 --> 00:20:28,600 unstable for me. But I don't think that this has 416 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,151 changed much. I think that the midsole is on 417 00:20:31,151 --> 00:20:34,219 the firmer end, and that it made it a little bit stiffer. 418 00:20:34,940 --> 00:20:38,011 But I think where we differ is I didn't have problems with that 419 00:20:38,011 --> 00:20:40,474 at easy pace. I've done two 10-plus-mile runs 420 00:20:40,474 --> 00:20:44,400 at easy pace in this shoe, and it's been just fine for me. 421 00:20:45,660 --> 00:20:48,419 I think that the rocker is a slightly earlier stage. 422 00:20:48,419 --> 00:20:51,719 So you can just kind of be in an easy, smooth rhythm. 423 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,628 For myself, I didn't have, like I said, I didn't have any 424 00:20:54,628 --> 00:20:56,161 problems. But it just feels like an 425 00:20:56,161 --> 00:20:59,535 Endorphin Speed. And it doesn't compare to 426 00:20:59,535 --> 00:21:03,888 current other performance shoes because the midsole hasn't 427 00:21:03,888 --> 00:21:07,457 changed a lot. I know that you said, I haven't 428 00:21:07,457 --> 00:21:09,199 run the 5, so I can't compare that one. 429 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,457 But the other ones, they've kind of just all felt consistent for 430 00:21:12,457 --> 00:21:15,479 the most part. It doesn't feel like they're 431 00:21:15,479 --> 00:21:18,479 changing too much. I like that the plate spans all 432 00:21:18,479 --> 00:21:21,549 the way across medial lateral. That change happened, I think, 433 00:21:21,549 --> 00:21:24,160 with the three, and I think has made the world of difference 434 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,570 from a stability standpoint for the shoe. 435 00:21:26,570 --> 00:21:30,600 I'd say the downfall for me is that it's a total rock catcher 436 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,616 right now. So I kept the shoes in there, 437 00:21:33,616 --> 00:21:36,838 but they have these three cutouts at the bottom, and I've 438 00:21:36,838 --> 00:21:40,519 got more than 10 rocks in there right now. 439 00:21:40,519 --> 00:21:45,900 And that's just what I run a lot on, so it's a little bit of a 440 00:21:45,900 --> 00:21:47,220 deal breaker. I like the shoe. 441 00:21:47,220 --> 00:21:49,420 I'm not slamming on it for saying that it's nothing 442 00:21:49,420 --> 00:21:51,204 special. But it's just, if you like the 443 00:21:51,204 --> 00:21:53,180 speed, I think you're going to get what you want out of it. 444 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,245 Maybe you'll have different experiences when it comes to 445 00:21:57,245 --> 00:21:59,520 what it's like at easy versus fast pace. 446 00:21:59,660 --> 00:22:01,903 But I haven't had any issues, which is okay. 447 00:22:01,903 --> 00:22:04,891 See, David's going to go run and be like, oh, it's fine. 448 00:22:04,891 --> 00:22:08,502 Exactly. I don't know what you're talking 449 00:22:08,502 --> 00:22:09,483 about. Come on. 450 00:22:09,483 --> 00:22:11,768 Feels like speed. I'm like, damn it. 451 00:22:11,768 --> 00:22:14,559 We'll see. I'll probably run it either 452 00:22:14,559 --> 00:22:18,910 tomorrow or Tuesday, and then I'll get back to you guys. 453 00:22:18,910 --> 00:22:23,744 I think I'm mostly caught up on the shoes that are urgent that I 454 00:22:23,744 --> 00:22:27,631 need to be caught up on. I have one other shoe that I got 455 00:22:27,631 --> 00:22:32,060 my first run in that I wanted to just quick touch on, that we 456 00:22:32,060 --> 00:22:35,699 talked about a lot, but it's the SC Rebel from New Balance. 457 00:22:36,420 --> 00:22:40,606 I was kind of shying away from it because I wasn't doing fast 458 00:22:40,606 --> 00:22:44,851 stuff, and for me, fit is really snug and, like, really tight 459 00:22:44,851 --> 00:22:48,031 around the toes. But I had a track workout last, 460 00:22:48,031 --> 00:22:51,423 not this past week, but the week before that, like my first track 461 00:22:51,423 --> 00:22:54,169 workout in years, and I was like, you know what, let me lace 462 00:22:54,169 --> 00:22:57,417 it up, let's take it out. I did some repeats in it, and I, 463 00:22:57,417 --> 00:22:59,669 I found it to be really fun on the track. 464 00:22:59,669 --> 00:23:03,231 I think that it's, despite having a good amount of stack, 465 00:23:03,231 --> 00:23:07,830 like, it, it felt pretty stable because the foam is bouncy, but 466 00:23:07,830 --> 00:23:11,880 not too soft. It's not firm, but it doesn't 467 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,580 really comply when I was turning. 468 00:23:14,580 --> 00:23:19,348 It felt stable enough. I just like how it stays wide 469 00:23:19,348 --> 00:23:22,285 through the midfoot here. So I enjoyed it on the track. 470 00:23:22,285 --> 00:23:26,244 It's a very stiff shoe. It doesn't give you a lot of 471 00:23:26,244 --> 00:23:28,983 flexibility in the forefoot, but I found it pretty rhythmic for 472 00:23:28,983 --> 00:23:33,429 what I was doing. It was snug, but it didn't cut 473 00:23:33,429 --> 00:23:36,393 any of my toenails off. I just don't think I'd take it 474 00:23:36,393 --> 00:23:39,387 on the long run. So I might keep using it for 475 00:23:39,387 --> 00:23:42,481 workouts and not much more than that, unless I had a half size 476 00:23:42,481 --> 00:23:44,096 up. But then I'd be curious, because 477 00:23:44,096 --> 00:23:47,180 of how stiff it is, how does my foot line up with the rocker? 478 00:23:47,329 --> 00:23:49,847 I think if it decides my foot lines up with the rocker really 479 00:23:49,847 --> 00:23:52,706 well. If it was bigger, would I have 480 00:23:52,706 --> 00:23:55,516 to work a little bit harder to get on it? 481 00:23:55,516 --> 00:23:59,502 Fun shoe, though. Nice midsole for the type of 482 00:23:59,502 --> 00:24:01,850 shoe it's meant to be. Yeah. 483 00:24:01,850 --> 00:24:06,182 I mean, well, it's like what, carbon plate, 7.7 ounces. this 484 00:24:06,182 --> 00:24:08,240 ATPU, like the FuelCell, it's solid. 485 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,667 It's fun. You could run a 5K in that if 486 00:24:11,667 --> 00:24:13,719 you really want to. Yeah, totally. 487 00:24:14,420 --> 00:24:16,453 Maybe I should do that for my next time trial. 488 00:24:16,453 --> 00:24:19,388 I think that might, for a lot of people, might be more 489 00:24:19,388 --> 00:24:23,161 appropriate than, say, the SC Elite, which is a great shoe. 490 00:24:23,161 --> 00:24:26,239 I just think we talk about this a lot. 491 00:24:26,380 --> 00:24:29,317 We're not trying to tell people you shouldn't use shoes, but 492 00:24:29,317 --> 00:24:31,979 there may be better options with that being more stable. 493 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,219 It can move. It's really fun. 494 00:24:34,459 --> 00:24:37,138 And I think a lot of people, most recreation runners, instead 495 00:24:37,138 --> 00:24:40,054 of getting the most crazy super shoe, I think that's a really 496 00:24:40,054 --> 00:24:42,784 good alternative. Like that, the speed, you know, 497 00:24:42,784 --> 00:24:45,000 those are great alternatives to doing faster stuff. 498 00:24:45,079 --> 00:24:47,880 The Megablast, yeah, all great options. 499 00:24:47,959 --> 00:24:49,796 You don't necessarily have to get the absolute fastest, 500 00:24:49,796 --> 00:24:52,040 although it's ironic that's what we're going to talk about today. 501 00:24:53,660 --> 00:24:56,100 Yeah, finding what is the fastest for you, what's not 502 00:24:56,100 --> 00:24:58,296 necessarily what's considered fastest, I think is still an 503 00:24:58,296 --> 00:25:00,000 important thing that I want to reach. 504 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,319 Yeah, I mean, I could race in the SC Rebel. 505 00:25:04,660 --> 00:25:07,824 Like, if I really had to, and I was like, all right, I'm like, 506 00:25:07,824 --> 00:25:09,400 okay, yeah, I feel good about this. 507 00:25:09,859 --> 00:25:12,015 And you could get a lot of training in that shoe, 508 00:25:12,015 --> 00:25:14,359 especially if it, like, for me, I'm on that edge of fit. 509 00:25:14,479 --> 00:25:17,657 But if you're not on the edge of fit, man, you could do, like, 510 00:25:17,657 --> 00:25:19,239 most of your training in that shoe. 511 00:25:19,300 --> 00:25:21,220 Because it was good at easy pace, too. 512 00:25:21,220 --> 00:25:24,100 Like, it just feels nice. Good at all paces, so it could 513 00:25:24,100 --> 00:25:26,874 be a little hard for you. Very versatile. 514 00:25:26,874 --> 00:25:30,542 All right, well, that's everything that we have in for 515 00:25:30,542 --> 00:25:33,313 testing right now. actually not because we're going to talk 516 00:25:33,313 --> 00:25:35,284 about stuff we've been testing in our main segment. 517 00:25:35,284 --> 00:25:37,884 That was a long, that was a lot of stuff. 518 00:25:37,884 --> 00:25:39,995 So hopefully people got something out of it. 519 00:25:39,995 --> 00:25:43,619 That was really, I mean, to be fair, this has been requested by 520 00:25:43,619 --> 00:25:45,923 both people, both inside and outside the running industry. 521 00:25:45,923 --> 00:25:48,726 So you're welcome to listen. Yes, yes. 522 00:25:48,726 --> 00:25:52,030 So yeah, so... Please talk about the shoes. 523 00:25:52,030 --> 00:25:54,915 We're apologizing for talking about the shoes. 524 00:25:54,915 --> 00:25:59,355 Don't apologize. But this in-for-testing segment 525 00:25:59,355 --> 00:26:01,599 is always fueled by Skratch Labs. 526 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,591 So if you're looking for any in-run nutrition, hydration, 527 00:26:04,591 --> 00:26:08,359 recovery stuff, I just stocked up on a ton of recovery stuff. 528 00:26:08,619 --> 00:26:11,039 I've got like four extra bags ready to rock. 529 00:26:11,039 --> 00:26:13,451 Just chocolate because I just need my glorified chocolate 530 00:26:13,451 --> 00:26:14,550 milk. It's so good. 531 00:26:14,550 --> 00:26:15,930 You don't like the word chocolate? 532 00:26:15,930 --> 00:26:18,230 I do, but the chocolate comes in a bigger bag. 533 00:26:18,230 --> 00:26:21,382 So I'm just going for... No, no, they've got a 24 534 00:26:21,382 --> 00:26:22,303 serving. No, really? 535 00:26:22,303 --> 00:26:24,142 Yeah, they do. Yeah, they just... 536 00:26:24,142 --> 00:26:27,214 I have it. I literally can't see it because 537 00:26:27,214 --> 00:26:29,587 the door's closed. I just finished mine. 538 00:26:29,587 --> 00:26:31,280 All right. Well, next time. 539 00:26:31,579 --> 00:26:35,615 Next time I'm over-rope. So if you're wanting to get 20% 540 00:26:35,615 --> 00:26:40,086 off your first order, you can use the code DOCTORSOFRUNNING to 541 00:26:40,086 --> 00:26:45,102 get 20% off at skratchlabs.com. We're going to go into our main 542 00:26:45,102 --> 00:26:47,950 segment. We are wanting to talk about 543 00:26:47,950 --> 00:26:51,415 some of these high-end racing models that have been coming out 544 00:26:51,415 --> 00:26:54,708 from various companies. Some of them are like the 545 00:26:54,708 --> 00:26:58,520 mainstay running companies, such as Adidas and Nike, But some are 546 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,120 newer brands that are coming out of the scene in this space. 547 00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:03,920 We've got Topo. We've got TYR. 548 00:27:04,380 --> 00:27:06,280 So we're going to kind of go shoe by shoe. 549 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,560 We're also going to talk about, as we go through these shoes, 550 00:27:08,699 --> 00:27:11,963 what are our personal preferences when it comes toward 551 00:27:11,963 --> 00:27:16,200 selecting a shoe, case use for different distances, what are 552 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,080 our priorities when looking at these kinds of shoes. 553 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,280 And hopefully we have a good time talking about it. 554 00:27:22,959 --> 00:27:25,512 But let's dig into it. And I think it would be fun to 555 00:27:25,512 --> 00:27:27,472 start with one of the new kids on the block. 556 00:27:27,472 --> 00:27:30,935 And that's TYR. So TYR for me has been a company 557 00:27:30,935 --> 00:27:32,711 that has been all about swimming. 558 00:27:32,711 --> 00:27:35,079 When I see TYR, I think swim cap. 559 00:27:35,719 --> 00:27:38,590 But if you remember a couple years ago, I think that the 560 00:27:38,590 --> 00:27:41,756 nicest shoe that they came out with into the running space at 561 00:27:41,756 --> 00:27:44,626 first was the TYR Maverick. It was a lightweight trainer. 562 00:27:44,626 --> 00:27:46,916 I think it was pretty bang on shoe. 563 00:27:46,916 --> 00:27:50,675 It was really good. And now they're dropping the 564 00:27:50,675 --> 00:27:54,575 second version of racing shoe. It's the TYR Valkyrie Elite 2. 565 00:27:54,575 --> 00:27:58,893 Did I get that right, y'all? Sweet. 566 00:27:58,893 --> 00:28:02,347 A nod of approval, thank you. And it's quite the shoe. 567 00:28:02,347 --> 00:28:07,210 So Matt, do you want to give us a little bit of a rundown on 568 00:28:07,210 --> 00:28:10,179 this shoe? Yeah, it, I mean, it kind of 569 00:28:10,179 --> 00:28:14,148 came out of nowhere. This is one of the lightest and 570 00:28:14,148 --> 00:28:17,116 most aggressive super shoes on the market. 571 00:28:17,116 --> 00:28:20,136 Six-millimeter drop. I think, Dave, somebody helped 572 00:28:20,136 --> 00:28:23,895 me with the weight. It's like 5.5. 5.2 or 5.5. 573 00:28:23,895 --> 00:28:25,395 Yeah, it's incredibly lightweight. 574 00:28:25,395 --> 00:28:30,423 One of the highest to come out. It's got an ATPU foam called 575 00:28:30,423 --> 00:28:33,494 Hyper Launch, which is an appropriately named midsole. 576 00:28:33,494 --> 00:28:36,848 It's really aggressive. Even though it is 6mm drop, the 577 00:28:36,848 --> 00:28:39,750 heel compresses so much, it almost feels like a negative 578 00:28:39,750 --> 00:28:42,107 drop shoe. It's just super light, more snug 579 00:28:42,107 --> 00:28:44,456 fitting upper, not the widest thing on the market. 580 00:28:44,456 --> 00:28:48,189 I think if I'm going to go hit a 5K soon, this is what I'm going 581 00:28:48,189 --> 00:28:49,199 to wear. It's super aggressive. 582 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,865 I'm sure an elite runner could handle a marathon in this. 583 00:28:52,865 --> 00:28:55,377 I cannot. This would be max 10K, half. 584 00:28:55,377 --> 00:28:57,564 It's that light. It's that fast. 585 00:28:57,564 --> 00:29:00,560 It's that aggressive where, yeah, I'm really impressed. 586 00:29:00,859 --> 00:29:03,639 Never in a million years would I expect this out of TYR, but they 587 00:29:03,639 --> 00:29:05,629 really need business and should have paid more attention with 588 00:29:05,629 --> 00:29:07,420 the Maverick because that was also a great shoe. 589 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,060 So, yeah, very fast, true super racer. 590 00:29:11,060 --> 00:29:14,437 Full-length carbon fiber plate. They are messing with things 591 00:29:14,437 --> 00:29:17,305 like a few other companies where the plate is not actually full 592 00:29:17,305 --> 00:29:18,500 width. There's gaps in it. 593 00:29:18,619 --> 00:29:21,883 That's a way to save weight. But trust me, that doesn't make 594 00:29:21,883 --> 00:29:25,140 it any more flexible at all. It is still very, very stiff. 595 00:29:25,239 --> 00:29:29,059 And I had some of the fastest workouts recently in this shoe. 596 00:29:29,059 --> 00:29:32,239 And yeah, David actually put down a mile time trial. 597 00:29:32,540 --> 00:29:36,537 And it's one of those shoes, to quote David, it's great as long 598 00:29:36,537 --> 00:29:39,300 as you can control it. I did say that. 599 00:29:42,919 --> 00:29:46,411 Yeah, I don't have much to add. Yeah, I don't have much to add 600 00:29:46,411 --> 00:29:49,680 there. think it's great as long as you can control it. 601 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,479 I think that's, the foam is really soft and really 602 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,096 compliant, but it's also really bouncy and responsive. 603 00:29:55,096 --> 00:29:58,980 Like, what you put into that shoe is what you're going to get 604 00:29:58,980 --> 00:30:00,660 out. You want to feel lively, fast, 605 00:30:00,660 --> 00:30:03,565 like you're hitting the ground hard, this thing will come right 606 00:30:03,565 --> 00:30:06,859 back at you. However, it will also go in 607 00:30:06,859 --> 00:30:08,689 whatever direction you're throwing it. 608 00:30:08,689 --> 00:30:12,979 So, like, when I get tired, I do tend to have just a little bit 609 00:30:12,979 --> 00:30:15,283 more rotation. I start to just kind of pronate 610 00:30:15,283 --> 00:30:18,124 a little harder. I start to, like, swing a little 611 00:30:18,124 --> 00:30:21,520 bit, and if I start throwing forces medially and laterally at 612 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,520 this shoe, it's going to bounce back medially and laterally. 613 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,880 And so, like, I found that it was great until I got tired. 614 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,104 And I think whether it's mile, 5K, 10K, whatever, as long as 615 00:30:33,104 --> 00:30:36,220 you are in control of it, it will be okay. 616 00:30:36,220 --> 00:30:39,860 But I feel, I felt like once I lost control, or, like, I was 617 00:30:39,860 --> 00:30:43,469 just tired and just not the best mechanics for me personally, I 618 00:30:43,469 --> 00:30:46,572 started fighting the shoe more. And that's where that mile time 619 00:30:46,572 --> 00:30:49,410 trial kind of fell apart a little bit, because I'm running 620 00:30:49,410 --> 00:30:53,372 a mile, I don't even know when, and so I got tired, you know, 621 00:30:53,372 --> 00:30:56,900 about 800 meters in, and then now I'm, like, fighting for my 622 00:30:57,199 --> 00:30:59,799 life, and then I'm trying to have to fight the shoe a little 623 00:30:59,799 --> 00:31:01,399 bit. So, I mean, it's one of those 624 00:31:01,399 --> 00:31:03,870 things where it's not a bad racing shoe at all. 625 00:31:03,870 --> 00:31:07,055 Don't take that as far as me saying, like, oh, I can't race 626 00:31:07,055 --> 00:31:09,380 in this shoe. You, I think as long as you're 627 00:31:09,380 --> 00:31:12,606 very smart and you control your effort and you can kind of 628 00:31:12,606 --> 00:31:15,153 following on at the geometry, you'll do just fine. 629 00:31:15,153 --> 00:31:18,540 But yeah, it's going to respond to what you put into it. 630 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,640 So for better or worse, it's just a really plush, responsive 631 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,800 shoe. Lightweight, it can turn over. 632 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,225 It's fun. I think it's competitive with 633 00:31:27,225 --> 00:31:29,780 the market at the price point it is, which is 280. 634 00:31:32,020 --> 00:31:34,946 Yeah, this is a shoe, and I think it's here to be on the 635 00:31:34,946 --> 00:31:37,239 market, and I think we will see it on people's feet. 636 00:31:37,719 --> 00:31:41,560 As David said, this is a shoe. That's my favorite quote from 637 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,800 that whole thing. This is a shoe. 638 00:31:44,060 --> 00:31:46,684 I do have a question for you all. 639 00:31:46,684 --> 00:31:50,939 So I think that there is another shoe, like the Fast-R from Puma, 640 00:31:51,099 --> 00:31:54,289 that's even more purposely decoupled from the heel to the 641 00:31:54,289 --> 00:31:56,841 forefoot. The way that the geometry is on 642 00:31:56,841 --> 00:31:59,982 the shoe, you have kind of a curvature up through the 643 00:31:59,982 --> 00:32:02,380 midfoot, so there's no ground contact in the midfoot. 644 00:32:03,780 --> 00:32:05,404 What are your thoughts on that design? 645 00:32:05,404 --> 00:32:07,260 What does that do from a stability standpoint? 646 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,199 What does that do for running an easier effort versus fast 647 00:32:11,199 --> 00:32:13,387 effort? And Matt, I know I cut you off, 648 00:32:13,387 --> 00:32:15,670 so you can go back to what you were going to say, too. 649 00:32:15,670 --> 00:32:17,875 It's okay. This is not a shoe for running 650 00:32:17,875 --> 00:32:19,588 easy. Like, this is not what you 651 00:32:19,588 --> 00:32:21,540 should use this for. We talked about that. 652 00:32:21,540 --> 00:32:23,790 I think it mentioned something like there's certain shoes that 653 00:32:23,790 --> 00:32:26,479 are just not meant to be used for that kind of purpose. 654 00:32:26,579 --> 00:32:28,260 This is meant to go fast. That's it. 655 00:32:28,260 --> 00:32:30,570 That's how it looks designed. That's how the geometry is set 656 00:32:30,570 --> 00:32:33,196 up. I think running slow in the 657 00:32:33,196 --> 00:32:36,516 steel is very awkward. It's just like, you notice the 658 00:32:36,516 --> 00:32:38,655 gap more, you notice the geometry more. 659 00:32:38,655 --> 00:32:41,307 It's not until you run fast and start to compress it, everything 660 00:32:41,307 --> 00:32:44,271 kind of starts to fit into where you're like, oh, that makes 661 00:32:44,271 --> 00:32:46,487 sense. So yeah, do not run slow in this 662 00:32:46,487 --> 00:32:49,384 at all. That is not what this is for. 663 00:32:49,384 --> 00:32:52,937 The geometry, I mean, I don't like these kind of mid-foot 664 00:32:52,937 --> 00:32:54,704 cutouts. I'd rather have full ground 665 00:32:54,704 --> 00:32:56,587 contact. I'd rather there be a greater 666 00:32:56,587 --> 00:32:59,000 opening here and not have things narrow so much. 667 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,485 At least they offset this. Some of the companies didn't do 668 00:33:01,485 --> 00:33:05,670 this with a solid, like, sidewall or top line here in the 669 00:33:05,670 --> 00:33:07,861 midfoot. And the forefoot's very wide, so 670 00:33:07,861 --> 00:33:10,690 that does offset that really well, a lot better than the 671 00:33:10,690 --> 00:33:13,160 other shoe that we're going to talk about in a second, but it's 672 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,754 not a stable shoe. That's not what this is for. 673 00:33:15,754 --> 00:33:18,731 This is for going as fast as possible, and so that makes 674 00:33:18,731 --> 00:33:20,659 sense. But if you're going to try to 675 00:33:20,659 --> 00:33:22,596 get stuff down that light, it also makes sense that you're 676 00:33:22,596 --> 00:33:24,920 going to have to sacrifice something and some structural 677 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,004 stuff that I'm sure as the shoe breaks down with longer miles, 678 00:33:28,004 --> 00:33:29,186 it's going to be really different. 679 00:33:29,186 --> 00:33:32,123 I'm going to keep getting miles in this thing and we'll see what 680 00:33:32,123 --> 00:33:34,159 happens. But acutely, yeah, it's going to 681 00:33:34,159 --> 00:33:36,009 go fast. We'll see what happens later on 682 00:33:36,009 --> 00:33:38,457 as we get, you know, we'll see if I get 100 miles on it. 683 00:33:38,457 --> 00:33:41,349 We'll find out. Something I'm curious about from 684 00:33:41,349 --> 00:33:45,301 y'all's perspective, and I think the shoe is a good case study 685 00:33:45,301 --> 00:33:51,546 for it, I think that sometimes we talk about the value of a 686 00:33:51,546 --> 00:33:56,732 shoe for 5K pace versus marathon pace, or we sometimes, instead 687 00:33:56,732 --> 00:33:59,760 of saying pace, we say 5K effort versus marathon effort. 688 00:34:00,420 --> 00:34:04,245 Do you think this is a shoe that we can say, no matter the pace, 689 00:34:04,245 --> 00:34:07,050 if you're putting in your effort, it's going to work well 690 00:34:07,050 --> 00:34:10,790 for you? So, if your 5K is a 9 minute per 691 00:34:10,790 --> 00:34:15,739 mile versus a 5K that's at a 6:30 versus a 5K that's at a 5K, 692 00:34:15,739 --> 00:34:19,040 do you think that pace matters more with this shoe? 693 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,500 Or do you think effort matters more with this shoe? 694 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,420 So, I've had shoes that are sometimes like, yeah, it's 695 00:34:24,420 --> 00:34:26,958 really only when you're actually going faster in summer. 696 00:34:27,050 --> 00:34:30,068 It's like, no, it's more about the effort you're throwing down. 697 00:34:30,068 --> 00:34:32,260 I think it's the first one in this. 698 00:34:32,458 --> 00:34:36,107 It's so aggressive in the way the geometry sets up that it's 699 00:34:36,107 --> 00:34:39,149 not just about effort. It's you've got to be getting up 700 00:34:39,149 --> 00:34:41,110 to a certain speed for this to feel good. 701 00:34:41,110 --> 00:34:43,494 And I'm not trying to judge. If you're running a nine-minute 702 00:34:43,494 --> 00:34:45,870 pace and that is your fast effort, I don't know if you're 703 00:34:45,870 --> 00:34:49,466 going to load this shoe the way you need to get the most out of 704 00:34:49,466 --> 00:34:52,081 it compared to something else. And I'm not trying to be a 705 00:34:52,081 --> 00:34:53,804 gatekeeper or something like that. 706 00:34:53,804 --> 00:34:57,555 I think what happens when these shoes get that aggressive with 707 00:34:57,555 --> 00:35:00,729 this intense geometry is that, Yeah, there becomes a pace 708 00:35:00,729 --> 00:35:02,059 component. Everybody's going to be 709 00:35:02,059 --> 00:35:03,649 different. We load the ground three 710 00:35:03,649 --> 00:35:06,619 different ways, but I'm going to have to go with the first one. 711 00:35:06,619 --> 00:35:09,219 David, what do you think? I'm kind of a hybrid of the two. 712 00:35:09,409 --> 00:35:13,039 I feel like there probably is a certain pace threshold you 713 00:35:13,039 --> 00:35:16,659 probably need to hit, but if you can hit that comfortably, 714 00:35:16,979 --> 00:35:19,339 there's no reason why you can't take it a marathon. 715 00:35:19,339 --> 00:35:22,612 There's plenty of cushioning on it to do so, and it feels like 716 00:35:22,612 --> 00:35:24,868 you could totally handle it as long as you can handle it. 717 00:35:24,868 --> 00:35:26,560 That's really kind of what it comes down to. 718 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,335 I'm with Klein on this one where I don't know know that I can 719 00:35:30,335 --> 00:35:31,769 handle that for a marathon though. 720 00:35:31,769 --> 00:35:34,874 Like, especially once I get tired, I'm going to start to 721 00:35:34,874 --> 00:35:38,070 slop it around on that thing. But yeah, 5K, 10K, half 722 00:35:38,070 --> 00:35:41,631 marathon. I don't know if I can handle 723 00:35:41,631 --> 00:35:46,199 that for a half marathon. Maybe I could, put your thoughts 724 00:35:46,270 --> 00:35:50,464 on like, Hey, if somebody's 5K effort is like nine minute pace, 725 00:35:50,464 --> 00:35:53,918 that's probably a little slow for the geometry of the shoe. 726 00:35:53,918 --> 00:35:56,594 Like it likes to be engaged and it likes to go quick. 727 00:35:56,594 --> 00:36:02,780 I think if, like, as long as you can hit, like, probably sub-7 728 00:36:02,780 --> 00:36:06,372 pace relatively comfortably, you'll probably be okay. 729 00:36:06,372 --> 00:36:11,741 I found that it was okay there, but again, you gotta control the 730 00:36:11,741 --> 00:36:15,250 pace. Like, I was running, like, I was 731 00:36:15,250 --> 00:36:21,421 smoother in that shoe at 4:30, 4:40 mile pace fresh than I was 732 00:36:21,421 --> 00:36:25,251 at 5:10 mile pace tired. Does that makes sense? 733 00:36:25,251 --> 00:36:28,320 Yeah, I had the same thing. My first threshold run in the 734 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,554 shoe, where I progressed carefully because I'm trying not 735 00:36:30,554 --> 00:36:32,961 to get out of control, and it happened recently, we're trying 736 00:36:32,961 --> 00:36:36,188 to keep things above a certain level, and I started, like, 6:30 737 00:36:36,188 --> 00:36:39,810 pace, and then went, ah, I'm running out of time, I gotta go 738 00:36:39,810 --> 00:36:41,924 teach, and then push the pace down. 739 00:36:41,924 --> 00:36:45,950 And yeah, it felt way smoother as I went into the five, like, 740 00:36:45,950 --> 00:36:48,983 5:30 range, but then I'm definitely overreaching and paid 741 00:36:48,983 --> 00:36:52,120 for it later. So you gotta to be able to 742 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:52,945 control it. Yeah. 743 00:36:52,945 --> 00:36:54,870 Cool. That makes a lot of sense. 744 00:36:54,870 --> 00:36:58,695 Well, the next shoe that we're going to bring up is actually 745 00:36:58,695 --> 00:37:01,423 one that only I get to talk about because for some reason 746 00:37:01,423 --> 00:37:04,335 I'm the only one who got sent this which makes no sense and 747 00:37:04,335 --> 00:37:06,811 I'm the one who does like our seeding requests and I didn't 748 00:37:06,811 --> 00:37:08,459 even put myself on the list for this. 749 00:37:08,580 --> 00:37:12,612 So I literally don't know how I got the shoe but I did get 750 00:37:12,612 --> 00:37:16,477 testing miles in the Alphafly 4 so this is just coming out from 751 00:37:16,477 --> 00:37:20,533 Nike I think the release date for like a larger launch is 752 00:37:20,533 --> 00:37:22,560 October 29th or something like that. 753 00:37:22,699 --> 00:37:28,750 I think that's what it is. But I got to do a 5K time trial 754 00:37:28,750 --> 00:37:32,377 in this shoe, and I just recorded a full... 755 00:37:32,377 --> 00:37:36,133 Yes. What did you run for the 5K time 756 00:37:36,133 --> 00:37:38,047 trial? I ran like a 19:18. 757 00:37:38,047 --> 00:37:40,280 So I was pretty happy about that. 758 00:37:40,419 --> 00:37:43,130 I didn't know if I would get sub-20 or not. 759 00:37:43,130 --> 00:37:45,840 So I was kind of pleased when I got done. 760 00:37:45,919 --> 00:37:49,680 I was like, hey, I was still sub-20. 761 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,440 Because my lifetime PR is like 18, 18-ish. 762 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,734 So that's not bad. That's why you crushed it, 763 00:37:56,734 --> 00:37:58,900 though. You're like, oh, I don't know if 764 00:37:58,900 --> 00:38:01,600 I'll break said time and go 40 seconds under 5K. 765 00:38:01,639 --> 00:38:03,807 Right. That's a pretty big margin to be 766 00:38:03,807 --> 00:38:04,349 under. Yeah. 767 00:38:04,349 --> 00:38:05,970 Yeah. So, yeah, it was fun. 768 00:38:05,970 --> 00:38:09,618 It was fun to go. And my body is so far holding 769 00:38:09,618 --> 00:38:11,199 up. So that felt good, too. 770 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,608 Because it's been years since I've done something like that 771 00:38:14,608 --> 00:38:17,264 because of my foot injury that I had. 772 00:38:17,264 --> 00:38:20,391 So I'm excited. It was very fun to do. 773 00:38:20,391 --> 00:38:24,573 So yes, I did just record a video on that experience and a 774 00:38:24,573 --> 00:38:28,205 little bit more breakdown of the shoe, so you might get that 775 00:38:28,205 --> 00:38:30,856 double depending on when you listen to this or when you 776 00:38:30,856 --> 00:38:35,183 listen to that review already. But I think to start, to just 777 00:38:35,183 --> 00:38:39,323 piggyback off the conversation with the Valkyrie Elite 2, I 778 00:38:39,323 --> 00:38:43,801 think the Alphafly 4, did I say it right? 779 00:38:43,801 --> 00:38:47,563 Yeah, we got you. You got to keep going. 780 00:38:47,563 --> 00:38:48,399 Valkyrie. Valkyrie. 781 00:38:49,939 --> 00:38:51,895 Like the WNBA Golden State Valkyries. 782 00:38:51,895 --> 00:38:54,500 Yeah, you just make fun of me now. 783 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:59,045 Take advantage because we've made fun of you for Kayano for 784 00:38:59,045 --> 00:39:00,429 years. No, you should. 785 00:39:00,429 --> 00:39:05,020 You're thinking of Valkyrie too. They are playing right now in 786 00:39:05,020 --> 00:39:06,500 the playoffs, game one. Amazing. 787 00:39:07,899 --> 00:39:11,591 Yeah, I'm a Valkyrie fan, so I'm a little sad I'm missing the 788 00:39:11,591 --> 00:39:13,577 game, but I'll catch the second half. 789 00:39:13,577 --> 00:39:16,460 Perfect. All right, anyway, to piggyback 790 00:39:16,460 --> 00:39:20,855 off of that conversation about said shoe, I think that this is 791 00:39:20,855 --> 00:39:23,738 more one that probably matters more about effort than it does 792 00:39:23,738 --> 00:39:26,256 pace. Because with the Alphafly 4 and 793 00:39:26,256 --> 00:39:30,096 more with the 4 than the 3, because I did get to run in the 794 00:39:30,096 --> 00:39:34,299 3 a decent amount, I think that you could run a lot of different 795 00:39:34,299 --> 00:39:37,179 paces comfortably in the shoe. So I did my cool down. 796 00:39:37,260 --> 00:39:40,998 I didn't do my warm-up in it, but I did my cool down in it. 797 00:39:40,998 --> 00:39:43,239 It felt really fine and smooth at easy pace. 798 00:39:43,419 --> 00:39:46,102 It didn't push me forward. I felt like I could really, 799 00:39:46,102 --> 00:39:47,560 like, settle into a slower rhythm. 800 00:39:48,139 --> 00:39:52,950 For me, you know my 5K effort that I just put down pace-wise 801 00:39:52,950 --> 00:39:56,280 is, like, 6:15-ish per mile or less than that. 802 00:39:56,620 --> 00:39:59,100 Like, it felt really responsive at that pace. 803 00:39:59,100 --> 00:40:04,876 I think if I was trying to go faster than that, it might not 804 00:40:04,876 --> 00:40:06,788 be the best shoe that I would choose. 805 00:40:06,788 --> 00:40:09,745 It's less, you know, like, quick turnover and more like it just 806 00:40:09,745 --> 00:40:13,115 gives you a lot of bounce. and I think even more so than a 3. 807 00:40:13,115 --> 00:40:16,580 But sorry, I got off track. What I meant to say is that if 808 00:40:16,580 --> 00:40:19,452 you're putting in 5K effort, even if that's at a slower pace, 809 00:40:19,452 --> 00:40:21,060 I think this shoe would work for you. 810 00:40:21,540 --> 00:40:25,040 I don't think that this is much, the geometry and all of that is 811 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,540 not tied to actual pacing as it is to effort. 812 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:34,872 And so I think if I were to pick my sweet spot, pacing-wise, half 813 00:40:34,872 --> 00:40:38,696 marathon, 10K, and marathon, I think would be my favorite. 814 00:40:38,696 --> 00:40:42,464 I loved it for my 5K, but I also haven't ran a lot of super shoes 815 00:40:42,464 --> 00:40:45,445 for that type of effort in the last couple of years, so what do 816 00:40:45,445 --> 00:40:46,726 I have to compare it to? Nothing. 817 00:40:46,726 --> 00:40:48,739 It was very fun to be in a super shoe again. 818 00:40:48,870 --> 00:40:52,159 I guess I'll put it that way. I have, though, trialed other 819 00:40:52,159 --> 00:40:56,812 super shoes for, like, very briefs in, just to see, and a 820 00:40:56,812 --> 00:41:00,230 lot of them lately are not working for me, so let me see if 821 00:41:00,230 --> 00:41:03,255 I can even name them, but Saucony Endorphin Elite 3, too 822 00:41:03,255 --> 00:41:05,962 soft for me. I couldn't, like, get into 823 00:41:05,962 --> 00:41:09,583 rhythm. And then I also couldn't get in 824 00:41:09,583 --> 00:41:11,917 rhythm with the On Cloudboom Strike. 825 00:41:11,917 --> 00:41:13,860 Three, two, two, two. Yeah. 826 00:41:14,739 --> 00:41:17,520 The rocker was just too late, so I couldn't get up on it. 827 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,510 The New Balance SC Elite 6, I couldn't get in rhythm with that 828 00:41:21,510 --> 00:41:23,790 shoe. With the Alphafly 4, I could get 829 00:41:23,790 --> 00:41:27,058 in rhythm. The heel doesn't have a ton of 830 00:41:27,058 --> 00:41:30,194 bounce to it. It feels just a little bit like 831 00:41:30,194 --> 00:41:33,252 softer, compressive, which didn't throw me forward super 832 00:41:33,252 --> 00:41:37,958 fast. whereas I felt like the 3 threw me really quickly on my 833 00:41:37,958 --> 00:41:40,536 forefoot. I didn't get thrown forward as 834 00:41:40,536 --> 00:41:44,391 aggressively in the 4, which is why I felt like I could settle 835 00:41:44,391 --> 00:41:47,131 into different paces with it. But the forefoot itself is 836 00:41:47,131 --> 00:41:50,632 really bouncy. So it's a new midsole, I forget, 837 00:41:50,632 --> 00:41:53,320 ZoomX LT, I think is what it's called. 838 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,312 I can tell the forefoot is more bouncy than what it was in the 839 00:41:57,312 --> 00:42:00,814 3, and it is lighter too, so it's like under 7 ounces, under 840 00:42:00,814 --> 00:42:05,144 200 grams now. year. I think it's like 6.7 or 6.8 841 00:42:05,144 --> 00:42:08,528 ounces in my men's size 9. Really pleasant. 842 00:42:08,528 --> 00:42:12,388 And like I said, I think versatile in terms of type of 843 00:42:12,388 --> 00:42:14,764 person and speeds that you might be running at. 844 00:42:14,764 --> 00:42:17,620 I think it can fit a lot of different efforts. 845 00:42:17,620 --> 00:42:20,851 Probably not your top one for like fast turnover if you're a 846 00:42:20,851 --> 00:42:24,663 high cadence runner down at your like 5K pace or faster than 847 00:42:24,663 --> 00:42:27,095 that. I don't know if you want like 848 00:42:27,095 --> 00:42:29,045 repeat workouts in this kind of shoe. 849 00:42:29,045 --> 00:42:31,479 Do y'all have any questions about it or thoughts? 850 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,183 Do you know what it's really interesting about? 851 00:42:34,183 --> 00:42:36,799 280. So I think it's staying the same 852 00:42:36,799 --> 00:42:40,223 as the three. I think it's really important 853 00:42:40,223 --> 00:42:43,463 that they do that because it has been a very popular shoe for a 854 00:42:43,463 --> 00:42:45,806 wide range of runners. You will see elites run it, you 855 00:42:45,806 --> 00:42:48,435 will see recreational runners in it and be successful in it. 856 00:42:48,435 --> 00:42:51,152 And so that's a really hard balance when you're a large 857 00:42:51,152 --> 00:42:54,180 company like Nike to go, hey, we've got to make sure this 858 00:42:54,180 --> 00:42:55,860 works for a lot of different people. 859 00:42:55,860 --> 00:42:59,711 That's a very hard task. to set up to be that democratic and be 860 00:42:59,711 --> 00:43:01,300 able to tolerate that kind of stuff. 861 00:43:01,439 --> 00:43:04,472 Is it still a really bouncy shoes for everybody? 862 00:43:04,472 --> 00:43:08,165 Maybe, maybe not, but yeah. Definitely wider than the, like, 863 00:43:08,165 --> 00:43:11,360 if we're just talking Nike, wider than the Vapor. 864 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,840 It's not stable, but it's more stable. 865 00:43:14,379 --> 00:43:16,323 Like, you've got much more structure. 866 00:43:16,323 --> 00:43:19,556 I didn't have any irritation in my fibularis tendons or 867 00:43:19,556 --> 00:43:21,486 anything. So, I was pleased. 868 00:43:21,486 --> 00:43:23,929 Yeah. I hope I get tested, because 869 00:43:23,929 --> 00:43:27,431 I've gotten tons of miles on version 3, got a half marathon 870 00:43:27,431 --> 00:43:29,276 where part of the shoe came off when we see if it got a half 871 00:43:29,276 --> 00:43:29,985 marathon. That's right. 872 00:43:29,985 --> 00:43:32,988 I forgot about that. I can't remember if I raced in 873 00:43:32,988 --> 00:43:35,167 the three. I raced in Vaporfly 3, I 874 00:43:35,167 --> 00:43:37,643 remember. Yep. 875 00:43:37,643 --> 00:43:41,473 You know what? I think I opted for an Endorphin 876 00:43:41,473 --> 00:43:43,771 Elite 1 over Alphafly 3. Yep. 877 00:43:43,771 --> 00:43:45,798 Yep. I remember that pre-marathon. 878 00:43:45,798 --> 00:43:49,406 Alright, since Nate did that to us, David and I are going to go 879 00:43:49,406 --> 00:43:52,595 in the opposite direction of a shoe that he doesn't have. 880 00:43:52,595 --> 00:43:57,349 Yeah, I don't have this one. Yeah, only David and I got sent 881 00:43:57,349 --> 00:44:02,173 the Adios Pro 5, which, David, the listeners aren't going to be 882 00:44:02,173 --> 00:44:05,393 able to see this, but the viewers, can we see what your 883 00:44:05,393 --> 00:44:07,120 lateral forefoot looks like? That's not too bad. 884 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,063 I mean, there's definitely some wear on it, but yeah. 885 00:44:10,063 --> 00:44:12,287 Oh, interesting. A lot of people are chewing. 886 00:44:12,287 --> 00:44:17,025 Yeah, it's not bad. I've got almost 50 miles on my 887 00:44:17,025 --> 00:44:18,823 pair. Yeah, it's when you have exposed 888 00:44:18,823 --> 00:44:21,510 midsole, you're going to chew it a little bit, but the light 889 00:44:21,510 --> 00:44:25,128 traction can't hurt. Yeah, some people are. 890 00:44:25,128 --> 00:44:29,095 That doesn't look too bad. Yeah, some people, again, wear 891 00:44:29,095 --> 00:44:33,141 patterns, stuff like that. This is not meant to run slow. 892 00:44:33,141 --> 00:44:34,979 I'm not saying people are doing that. 893 00:44:35,300 --> 00:44:39,220 It's meant for workouts, and it's not going to last. 894 00:44:39,220 --> 00:44:42,194 That's what super shoes do. You're paying money to get these 895 00:44:42,194 --> 00:44:44,186 things as light as possible. You're not paying money to make 896 00:44:44,186 --> 00:44:46,358 them as durable as possible. I wish it was, but that's not 897 00:44:46,358 --> 00:44:49,660 always the case. It's not affected for me the 898 00:44:49,660 --> 00:44:52,355 midsole material at all. But this has been interesting 899 00:44:52,355 --> 00:44:55,815 because I feel like, and maybe I'm judging, I feel like Nike, I 900 00:44:55,815 --> 00:44:58,969 was expecting a little bit more, and I had to still try it, but I 901 00:44:58,969 --> 00:45:00,439 was expecting more out of the Alphafly. 902 00:45:00,540 --> 00:45:04,551 It's still a little bit on the heavier side for a super racer 903 00:45:04,551 --> 00:45:07,631 now, because everything is getting in that low 6-ounce or 904 00:45:07,631 --> 00:45:10,004 sub-6-ounce. And Adidas finally took the 905 00:45:10,004 --> 00:45:12,780 Adios in that direction, and so it's definitely there. 906 00:45:12,899 --> 00:45:16,227 It's definitely an interesting shoe with a now-hollowed-out 907 00:45:16,227 --> 00:45:18,723 plate. We were not given this 908 00:45:18,723 --> 00:45:21,765 information. Even when I actually, I did not 909 00:45:21,765 --> 00:45:24,738 ask this during an interview, but we didn't get any 910 00:45:24,738 --> 00:45:26,520 information about this dual layers here. 911 00:45:26,530 --> 00:45:30,369 This ATPU top foam and a PEBA-based bottom foam, which is 912 00:45:30,369 --> 00:45:33,503 the first time we've ever gotten information about what 913 00:45:33,503 --> 00:45:35,606 Lightstrike is. People were like, why didn't you 914 00:45:35,606 --> 00:45:37,290 ask about that? Because they don't usually tell 915 00:45:37,290 --> 00:45:38,760 us. So, it is what it is. 916 00:45:38,919 --> 00:45:42,802 But, yeah, way lighter, softer in my opinion, for sure, David. 917 00:45:42,802 --> 00:45:45,620 I don't know how you feel about that. 918 00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,085 But I think that the fact that the plate isn't the full width 919 00:45:48,085 --> 00:45:50,080 means you can actually engage with the foam a lot better. 920 00:45:50,199 --> 00:45:52,373 You can actually feel it. There's a lot of shoes where the 921 00:45:52,373 --> 00:45:55,061 plate sits right under the foot. And we know from research that 922 00:45:55,061 --> 00:45:57,416 your perception of shoes usually is what's sitting right 923 00:45:57,416 --> 00:45:59,979 underneath your foot. Sometimes I find a lot of super 924 00:45:59,979 --> 00:46:01,868 shoes really firm. And everybody else is calling 925 00:46:01,868 --> 00:46:03,896 them soft. I'm like, I think it's the plate 926 00:46:03,896 --> 00:46:05,639 hitting my foot. This one feels much softer. 927 00:46:05,860 --> 00:46:09,815 It's been really, really good for longer efforts, 10K, half 928 00:46:09,815 --> 00:46:12,875 marathon, marathon pace. I wouldn't survive a marathon on 929 00:46:12,875 --> 00:46:16,020 this because the midfoot is just not stable enough for me. 930 00:46:16,219 --> 00:46:18,348 Even with the reinforcement for the plate, that thing is narrow 931 00:46:18,348 --> 00:46:19,699 enough. I'm falling off the edge there. 932 00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,000 Forefoot's better, but more rocker, more long distance 933 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,646 height than anything short. And I was really worried the fit 934 00:46:26,646 --> 00:46:28,659 was going to be short, but actually it has been fine. 935 00:46:28,939 --> 00:46:31,060 Low volume, locks in really, really well. 936 00:46:31,060 --> 00:46:33,179 Tongues is really good. Haven't had issues. 937 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,585 My only complaint is why the heck is everybody curving the 938 00:46:36,585 --> 00:46:38,780 heel of the upper in the Achilles tendon? 939 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,768 And, like, stop. Whoever, like, did that first, 940 00:46:41,768 --> 00:46:44,185 like, a curse on you. Wow. 941 00:46:44,185 --> 00:46:46,455 That it bothers my Achilles. I'm sorry. 942 00:46:46,455 --> 00:46:48,399 That's really, that's intense. I'm sorry. 943 00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:53,683 You know what I think I'm going to do is put a retro kind of 944 00:46:53,683 --> 00:46:57,315 curve here, and at some point it's got to come up to the heel 945 00:46:57,315 --> 00:46:59,359 collar, and I think they're just cinching it there. 946 00:46:59,359 --> 00:47:02,791 It's probably just, yeah, it's going to, that's going to, yeah, 947 00:47:02,791 --> 00:47:04,777 it's pushing into the Achilles tendon. 948 00:47:04,777 --> 00:47:06,511 Achilles tendons do not like pressure. 949 00:47:06,511 --> 00:47:09,141 We know that. I don't know how many times to 950 00:47:09,141 --> 00:47:10,456 say that. It's been fine. 951 00:47:10,456 --> 00:47:13,536 Luckily, the 4mm drop is too much for me. 952 00:47:13,536 --> 00:47:16,741 The first time I ran this, I tried it without a heel lift. 953 00:47:16,741 --> 00:47:19,046 It really bothered my Achilles tendon because it soft foam 954 00:47:19,046 --> 00:47:21,458 compresses so much. So I have to put a heel lift in 955 00:47:21,458 --> 00:47:23,676 here which negates that somewhat. 956 00:47:23,676 --> 00:47:27,300 It feels much lower drop than other versions. 957 00:47:27,300 --> 00:47:31,560 But yeah, and it is. I mean, yeah, that makes sense. 958 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:33,520 So maybe what's her name in Berlin? 959 00:47:33,879 --> 00:47:36,113 Maybe rupture your Achilles because the heel drop was too 960 00:47:36,113 --> 00:47:37,897 much. Wow, that is a wild thing to 961 00:47:37,897 --> 00:47:40,215 say. She wasn't even wearing this 962 00:47:40,215 --> 00:47:43,306 shoe. I mean, if she was wearing one 963 00:47:43,306 --> 00:47:46,780 that's lower drop, it's 3mm drop, so, you know. 964 00:47:47,540 --> 00:47:52,119 I hope your surgery goes well. Yeah, no kidding. 965 00:47:52,119 --> 00:47:55,167 That's rough. Congrats on winning, despite 966 00:47:55,167 --> 00:47:59,891 having a tendon tear. That is insane to run through 967 00:47:59,891 --> 00:48:01,499 that. That's some toughness. 968 00:48:01,499 --> 00:48:04,715 Don't do that. For those wondering, don't do 969 00:48:04,715 --> 00:48:05,919 that. But, jeez. 970 00:48:06,860 --> 00:48:10,340 Anyway, it's all right. My rant is over. 971 00:48:10,340 --> 00:48:12,515 All right. My rant begins. 972 00:48:12,515 --> 00:48:14,255 Let's go. Lock in. 973 00:48:14,255 --> 00:48:15,124 Okay. So. 974 00:48:15,124 --> 00:48:18,953 This is a shoe. Moving on. 975 00:48:18,953 --> 00:48:21,876 Okay. So I want to start off by saying 976 00:48:21,876 --> 00:48:24,955 this is one of those shoes where, for me, I feel like 977 00:48:24,955 --> 00:48:28,310 effort matters a lot. We were talking about it 978 00:48:28,310 --> 00:48:31,206 earlier. I felt like this for me, no 979 00:48:31,206 --> 00:48:33,739 question, half marathon, marathon, like pure racer. 980 00:48:34,379 --> 00:48:38,755 I feel so good in rhythm in this shoe at tempo paces, but the way 981 00:48:38,755 --> 00:48:41,740 the rocker is oriented, it's like it's an early stage rocker, 982 00:48:41,740 --> 00:48:45,858 it's a little bit sharper. And the other thing is the 983 00:48:45,858 --> 00:48:48,914 exposed foam underneath your foot versus the traditional 984 00:48:48,914 --> 00:48:52,549 plate and rods. In the video that I made, I 985 00:48:52,549 --> 00:48:56,135 started pushing in the forefoot here, and I can actually push 986 00:48:56,135 --> 00:48:59,402 into that pretty good. Where like on the Adios Pro 4, 987 00:48:59,402 --> 00:49:00,860 like you can feel the rods there. 988 00:49:01,699 --> 00:49:04,936 And for better or worse, you know, I feel like you get a much 989 00:49:04,936 --> 00:49:07,708 more plush experience in the Adios Pro 5 versus the Adios Pro 990 00:49:07,708 --> 00:49:09,677 4. But it feels a little less 991 00:49:09,677 --> 00:49:12,451 snappy to me. And I feel like it loses some of 992 00:49:12,451 --> 00:49:14,719 that top speed appeal for like 5K and 10K. 993 00:49:14,959 --> 00:49:17,479 And to me too, it also felt more neutral. 994 00:49:17,479 --> 00:49:19,439 I felt like it lost some stability. 995 00:49:19,689 --> 00:49:22,307 And I feel like I got some heat for that on that YouTube video 996 00:49:22,307 --> 00:49:24,174 that I made. But I believe you agree with me, 997 00:49:24,174 --> 00:49:27,815 correct? Yeah, that midfoot, I think 998 00:49:27,815 --> 00:49:30,820 there was potential there if they used the same last in the 999 00:49:30,820 --> 00:49:33,820 Evo Pro 3 where they filled the midfoot, but that midfoot's just 1000 00:49:33,820 --> 00:49:36,685 so narrow. Plus the softer foam, it's just 1001 00:49:36,685 --> 00:49:39,300 this is not a stability or stable neutral shoe. 1002 00:49:39,459 --> 00:49:43,637 Yeah, very neutral, but I did find that, like, for me, it felt 1003 00:49:43,637 --> 00:49:46,480 great at rhythm. I mean, like I was saying out 1004 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,120 there before we started recording, like, if I had to run 1005 00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,760 a marathon tomorrow, like, this might be the shoe I choose. 1006 00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:55,514 I just like it in rhythm. It's one of those things, but I 1007 00:49:55,514 --> 00:49:57,080 don't want to go that much faster in it. 1008 00:49:57,139 --> 00:50:00,450 That's the weird thing is like half marathon, marathon, great. 1009 00:50:00,450 --> 00:50:03,760 But I just don't really want to really load it. 1010 00:50:03,820 --> 00:50:06,130 And I have taken it to the track and I have run fast in it. 1011 00:50:06,130 --> 00:50:08,659 And it can do it. It's not like it's not 1012 00:50:08,659 --> 00:50:12,399 responsive, but it just doesn't feel quite right at those faster 1013 00:50:12,399 --> 00:50:14,431 paces. And I think a lot of that is 1014 00:50:14,431 --> 00:50:16,500 that softer forefoot where the shoe feels a lot more plush. 1015 00:50:16,939 --> 00:50:19,445 And you definitely get a little bit more of a compliant 1016 00:50:19,445 --> 00:50:22,312 sensation when you're landing inside of the Energy Rim because 1017 00:50:22,312 --> 00:50:26,074 it's all exposed under you. And as far as, like, the 1018 00:50:26,074 --> 00:50:28,882 durability concerns and the outsole and things like that, 1019 00:50:28,882 --> 00:50:32,743 I'm actually not too worried. I feel like the Adios Pro 4 was 1020 00:50:32,743 --> 00:50:37,108 fine for me, and, like, the areas where the wear is on this 1021 00:50:37,108 --> 00:50:41,605 model, and this isn't to go in some kind of defense, like, post 1022 00:50:41,605 --> 00:50:45,937 for abuse or anything, but this area is really not where I 1023 00:50:45,937 --> 00:50:49,172 contact much anyways, and this was all cut out on the 4. 1024 00:50:49,172 --> 00:50:51,060 I don't know if you guys remember that. 1025 00:50:51,100 --> 00:50:53,932 I showed that on the video where this wasn't even, it wouldn't 1026 00:50:53,932 --> 00:50:55,820 have been exposed because it was cut out. 1027 00:50:56,580 --> 00:51:00,254 Same thing on the midfoot here. So, I mean, they filled it in 1028 00:51:00,254 --> 00:51:02,760 and it's fine. I never had any issues slipping 1029 00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,320 around or anything. I feel like there's quite a bit 1030 00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,520 of light traction out here and then you have that strip of 1031 00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:09,960 Continental there under the great toe. 1032 00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:12,671 I feel like it's fine. I don't think I'm going to have 1033 00:51:12,671 --> 00:51:14,980 any durability issues there. I mean, sure, the exposed parts 1034 00:51:14,980 --> 00:51:19,444 might get worn a little bit, but I'm not worried personally about 1035 00:51:19,444 --> 00:51:24,284 durability on this model. But yeah, snug fit, nice rocker, 1036 00:51:24,284 --> 00:51:27,640 feels great in rhythm, half marathon, marathon racer. 1037 00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:29,560 For me, it's a pure long-distance racer. 1038 00:51:29,649 --> 00:51:33,244 I just don't see myself wearing this for 5K or 10K over 1039 00:51:33,244 --> 00:51:38,288 something else that I have. They said that the rocker in the 1040 00:51:38,288 --> 00:51:40,724 Pro 5 was the same as the Adios Pro 4. 1041 00:51:40,724 --> 00:51:43,565 It doesn't feel like that. I think it's because of the 1042 00:51:43,565 --> 00:51:46,270 compression of the midsole. It just sounds like a more 1043 00:51:46,270 --> 00:51:48,299 rockered rolling shoe. I 100% agree with you. 1044 00:51:48,299 --> 00:51:51,149 I did try track workout. I was like, this is just, it can 1045 00:51:51,149 --> 00:51:53,120 do it like you said. It's just not it. 1046 00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:57,266 But I do also feel like it makes it for those with new mechanics 1047 00:51:57,266 --> 00:52:00,542 a little bit more democratic and another shoe that might work 1048 00:52:00,542 --> 00:52:03,125 well for those who want a variety of paces. 1049 00:52:03,125 --> 00:52:05,699 I wouldn't run easy in this. It did not. 1050 00:52:05,899 --> 00:52:08,903 It did just like, I don't know, this doesn't feel right. 1051 00:52:08,903 --> 00:52:12,179 But even picking up the pace just a little bit, just click. 1052 00:52:12,500 --> 00:52:15,200 And I was like, oh, that's nice. rhythm, great. 1053 00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:19,600 It's not stable in the midfoot. Do you know, for somebody, I'm 1054 00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:23,340 thinking about people on our team like Andrea, and even me, 1055 00:52:23,340 --> 00:52:26,929 there's obviously less midsole on the medial side or the inside 1056 00:52:26,929 --> 00:52:29,379 of the shoe, but it's full contact on the outside. 1057 00:52:30,659 --> 00:52:34,387 For people who need the guidance from the outward direction, is 1058 00:52:34,387 --> 00:52:38,302 it stable from keeping from going to the outside, going 1059 00:52:38,302 --> 00:52:39,829 laterally? Or not necessarily? 1060 00:52:39,829 --> 00:52:44,406 There is some, you can see this here, there is some lateral sole 1061 00:52:44,406 --> 00:52:46,711 flare, which may be one of the things that's bothering me a 1062 00:52:46,711 --> 00:52:48,439 little bit, I feel like Andrea would like this. 1063 00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,668 That may be fine for that, just because the lateral side is 1064 00:52:51,668 --> 00:52:54,503 still filled in far more than the forefoot, or the midfoot, 1065 00:52:54,503 --> 00:52:58,195 and the shape is very curved. So for that reason, I feel like, 1066 00:52:58,195 --> 00:53:00,597 yeah. Yeah, and I will say, like, the 1067 00:53:00,597 --> 00:53:03,607 Energy Rim still does a pretty decent job of, like, resisting 1068 00:53:03,607 --> 00:53:06,849 motion in both directions. I just think because of the 1069 00:53:06,849 --> 00:53:09,919 compliancy of the foam, like, because it is a new Lightstrike 1070 00:53:10,020 --> 00:53:12,909 Pro, like, it's a softer, lighter version as well. 1071 00:53:12,909 --> 00:53:15,156 I think people are forgetting that part. 1072 00:53:15,156 --> 00:53:18,535 And it's exposed under you. So you're going to feel that 1073 00:53:18,535 --> 00:53:21,169 compliancy. But for what it's worth, I feel 1074 00:53:21,169 --> 00:53:23,882 like the Energy Rim does a pretty good job for what it's 1075 00:53:23,882 --> 00:53:27,134 supposed to do. You just feel the foam. 1076 00:53:27,134 --> 00:53:30,032 Yeah, it maintains the longitudinal bending stiffness 1077 00:53:30,032 --> 00:53:32,344 quite well. It's just going to be a 1078 00:53:32,344 --> 00:53:34,360 different underfoot feel because you're getting, like David said, 1079 00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,603 more of that foam underfoot, which I feel like does make it 1080 00:53:37,603 --> 00:53:39,915 more democratic, especially those that are really sensitive 1081 00:53:39,915 --> 00:53:43,216 to stiff shoes. Like my forefoot, sometimes 1082 00:53:43,216 --> 00:53:46,540 really stiff shoes bother my forefoot. 1083 00:53:47,020 --> 00:53:49,605 This one doesn't bother at all because you still have 1084 00:53:49,605 --> 00:53:52,701 stiffness, but it's not done in the same way where it's still 1085 00:53:52,701 --> 00:53:54,621 compliant. So I think it's an interesting 1086 00:53:54,621 --> 00:53:57,039 take on this. It might work for some really 1087 00:53:57,039 --> 00:53:58,859 interesting people that maybe traditional plates haven't 1088 00:53:58,859 --> 00:54:01,967 worked very well for you because of pain in the metatarsals or 1089 00:54:01,967 --> 00:54:03,780 what have you that's been bothering you. 1090 00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:08,059 You know, this actually might be an option if you want to run it 1091 00:54:08,059 --> 00:54:10,171 quicker. Well, we got one more shoe to 1092 00:54:10,171 --> 00:54:12,688 talk about. And I would say we had the new 1093 00:54:12,688 --> 00:54:16,159 kid on the block with TYR, we had kind of the people who've 1094 00:54:16,159 --> 00:54:19,159 been sticking around for a long time, Adidas and Nike, and now 1095 00:54:19,159 --> 00:54:23,292 we got kind of that, like, used to be a newcomer, but now it's 1096 00:54:23,292 --> 00:54:25,284 pretty established. I'm just starting to follow the 1097 00:54:25,284 --> 00:54:28,141 Premier League, and I feel like they're almost like Brighton and 1098 00:54:28,141 --> 00:54:30,493 Hove Albion, where it's like they're newer, but, like, 1099 00:54:30,493 --> 00:54:33,363 they're kind of established as a decent team right now. 1100 00:54:33,363 --> 00:54:35,659 We're talking about Topo, so the Spectre Elite. 1101 00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:37,492 This is another one I haven't tested. 1102 00:54:37,492 --> 00:54:40,519 We've talked about it before on the podcast, but maybe how would 1103 00:54:40,519 --> 00:54:43,879 you slot this in with the other shoes that we've talked about, 1104 00:54:43,879 --> 00:54:46,519 maybe between the TYR and the Adios Pro? 1105 00:54:46,519 --> 00:54:50,887 I, I personally have been put a lot of, I think I have 100 1106 00:54:50,887 --> 00:54:53,280 kilometers on this, no, more like 70. 1107 00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:56,160 I would put this more in the Adios Pro. 1108 00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:59,471 It's a great shoe. I think they did really even 1109 00:54:59,471 --> 00:55:02,463 though they got some aggressive geometry, cut out, still ends up 1110 00:55:02,463 --> 00:55:05,468 being really stable just because some really good sidewall 1111 00:55:05,468 --> 00:55:10,342 action, and the rocker is wild. It's just another shoe, never in 1112 00:55:10,342 --> 00:55:13,625 a million years. Topo, TYR, would I expect 1113 00:55:13,625 --> 00:55:16,716 something out of this. And I think it's one of the 1114 00:55:16,716 --> 00:55:19,672 better all-around super racers, especially distance racers, of 1115 00:55:19,672 --> 00:55:23,388 the year because of ATPU foam, really efficient rocker 1116 00:55:23,388 --> 00:55:27,147 geometry, one of the great ones that has a wide toe box. 1117 00:55:27,147 --> 00:55:29,639 I mean, yeah, Vanish Carbon 3 also has that. 1118 00:55:29,699 --> 00:55:33,769 I just think Topo kind of came out of the head, just went with 1119 00:55:33,769 --> 00:55:37,314 the ATPU, got a lot lighter. Yeah, it's another wild one that 1120 00:55:37,314 --> 00:55:39,988 really is one of the top shoes, I think, of the year for me 1121 00:55:39,988 --> 00:55:42,033 personally. That does a lot of balance well, 1122 00:55:42,033 --> 00:55:44,523 but it's more like, even though it's stiff, it's more 1123 00:55:44,523 --> 00:55:46,583 democratic. I think a lot more people can 1124 00:55:46,583 --> 00:55:49,695 use this to be able to use it because it is much more that 1125 00:55:49,695 --> 00:55:51,699 long-distance shoe. This is not something I would 1126 00:55:51,699 --> 00:55:54,249 use for a 5K. That just doesn't turn over in 1127 00:55:54,249 --> 00:55:56,286 that way. That was going to be my 1128 00:55:56,286 --> 00:56:00,162 question: where does it fit on the spectrum of racing for you? 1129 00:56:00,162 --> 00:56:02,576 David, is that one you ran, or no? 1130 00:56:02,576 --> 00:56:05,470 The longer, longer stuff. Do you have that shoe? 1131 00:56:05,470 --> 00:56:07,790 Okay, so that's just mine. I don't know. 1132 00:56:07,790 --> 00:56:09,820 No. I think it's me and Andrea. 1133 00:56:10,939 --> 00:56:13,219 I do have something I can talk about. 1134 00:56:13,219 --> 00:56:16,069 That you can or cannot? That it's a super shoe. 1135 00:56:16,069 --> 00:56:18,334 Oh, okay. I usually say you can't talk 1136 00:56:18,334 --> 00:56:20,320 about a shoe. So this is good news. 1137 00:56:20,780 --> 00:56:24,615 Do you want to talk about the shoe that you can talk about? 1138 00:56:24,615 --> 00:56:26,975 Sure. Yeah, so earlier in the week I 1139 00:56:26,975 --> 00:56:29,919 was down in LA for the Skechers Aero Elite release. 1140 00:56:29,939 --> 00:56:31,952 Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. 1141 00:56:31,952 --> 00:56:32,756 Yeah. Yeah. 1142 00:56:32,756 --> 00:56:35,315 Yeah, yeah. That's where I was like, oh 1143 00:56:35,315 --> 00:56:38,241 dang, we only got two shoes left and neither have this. 1144 00:56:38,241 --> 00:56:41,739 So I want to hear all this. I guess we're not talking about 1145 00:56:41,739 --> 00:56:43,723 right now. We're supposed to be here today, 1146 00:56:43,723 --> 00:56:46,308 so I'm going to complain about it, but it's fine. 1147 00:56:46,308 --> 00:56:49,490 Yeah, I was like, all right, I'll just take the back seat 1148 00:56:49,490 --> 00:56:51,670 here. But I guess, yeah, please, we 1149 00:56:51,670 --> 00:56:55,170 are going to talk about it. Yeah, impressive, you know, 1150 00:56:55,170 --> 00:56:57,620 first offering. I think it's very interesting. 1151 00:56:58,060 --> 00:57:01,221 So they went the other way with geometry a little bit, where the 1152 00:57:01,221 --> 00:57:03,943 Spectre Elite from Topo is very rocker and wild, right? 1153 00:57:03,943 --> 00:57:06,431 Like, this is a much more modest rocker. 1154 00:57:06,431 --> 00:57:09,706 If I hold it up, the heel's decently aggressive, forefoot 1155 00:57:09,706 --> 00:57:12,733 spooned out, but it's, it's an early-stage rocker that's a 1156 00:57:12,733 --> 00:57:15,875 little bit more gradual. Now, we were talking about 1157 00:57:15,875 --> 00:57:18,760 alternative carbon plate designs, and this one is another 1158 00:57:18,810 --> 00:57:22,062 one like that, and they call it the Quantum Plate, which I'm 1159 00:57:22,062 --> 00:57:25,664 just naming, but you can see, I'll hold it up to the camera. 1160 00:57:25,664 --> 00:57:29,156 Yeah, it's almost like a matrix where it just kind of, like, 1161 00:57:29,156 --> 00:57:31,357 goes in, like, different directions, and spider-webby. 1162 00:57:31,357 --> 00:57:34,069 Yeah. And then the heel, you can't see 1163 00:57:34,069 --> 00:57:36,101 it underneath, but it's a circle. 1164 00:57:36,101 --> 00:57:39,788 So right there you have a little bit more of, like, a landing 1165 00:57:39,788 --> 00:57:42,415 zone for the calcaneus there, and then it just kind of 1166 00:57:42,415 --> 00:57:45,595 stiffens out as it goes. And I actually had a chance to 1167 00:57:45,595 --> 00:57:49,643 interview them a little bit in a room as well, and I was asking 1168 00:57:49,643 --> 00:57:51,793 if, like, that affected longitudinal bending stiffness, 1169 00:57:51,793 --> 00:57:54,511 because obviously that's a concern with carbon-plated 1170 00:57:54,511 --> 00:57:57,178 shoes. But they actually found it did, 1171 00:57:57,178 --> 00:58:00,378 and they They were finding that the foam of the forefoot was 1172 00:58:00,378 --> 00:58:03,511 giving in a little too much more than they wanted in later miles 1173 00:58:03,511 --> 00:58:05,439 and things like that or in harder efforts. 1174 00:58:06,300 --> 00:58:08,634 So they did stiffen it. They stiffened up the medial 1175 00:58:08,634 --> 00:58:11,516 forefoot specifically, like the plate where it is on the inside 1176 00:58:11,516 --> 00:58:13,489 of there. And that seemed to hold the 1177 00:58:13,489 --> 00:58:15,204 structure in a way they were happy with. 1178 00:58:15,204 --> 00:58:17,709 So it was good. It was good to hear like a 1179 00:58:17,709 --> 00:58:19,525 lifetime correction where they're like, okay, this is 1180 00:58:19,525 --> 00:58:21,340 what's going on on the inside of it. 1181 00:58:21,419 --> 00:58:24,059 We're not 100% happy with that. Let's change that and make sure 1182 00:58:24,059 --> 00:58:26,479 that that's the experience that we want out of the shoe. 1183 00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:29,439 So it was cool. But spec-wise, very competitive 1184 00:58:29,439 --> 00:58:32,625 with the market. You know, it's 40/36, so 4mm 1185 00:58:32,625 --> 00:58:35,490 drop. It's ATPU midsole, 5.9 ounces, 1186 00:58:35,490 --> 00:58:41,966 so just under 6 ounces. Very light, and it's also $225, 1187 00:58:41,966 --> 00:58:46,157 where, like, this is something where it immediately just puts a 1188 00:58:46,157 --> 00:58:50,784 stamp on it, and it's like, oh, yeah, we're going to line up 1189 00:58:50,784 --> 00:58:52,800 specification-wise, price-wise, and I think performance-wise. 1190 00:58:52,939 --> 00:58:56,300 I think it's actually, it is a solid super shoe to come out of 1191 00:58:56,300 --> 00:59:00,220 the market, And it's like the first time I think we've seen 1192 00:59:00,220 --> 00:59:02,780 something this hyped from Skechers, probably since the 1193 00:59:02,780 --> 00:59:05,710 Speed Elite. You know, it feels like they 1194 00:59:05,710 --> 00:59:07,821 really are just diving back into that performance division. 1195 00:59:07,821 --> 00:59:13,450 So it's kind of cool to see. But yeah, this is one of those 1196 00:59:13,450 --> 00:59:16,410 shoes where we were talking about effort-wise and 1197 00:59:16,410 --> 00:59:18,886 speed-wise. I do feel like you can run 1198 00:59:18,886 --> 00:59:21,719 slower in this shoe just because the geometry isn't super wild. 1199 00:59:22,159 --> 00:59:24,271 The heel's a little bit more narrow, though. 1200 00:59:24,271 --> 00:59:26,379 And the foam is on the softer side. 1201 00:59:26,620 --> 00:59:29,319 I was a little nervous that I'd have some issues with rearfoot 1202 00:59:29,319 --> 00:59:32,240 stability and a longer effort, but I took it at 10 miles at 1203 00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:34,280 like 6:30 pace a day, and it was totally fine. 1204 00:59:34,719 --> 00:59:38,319 Where I actually found myself wanting something a little bit 1205 00:59:38,319 --> 00:59:41,919 more, ironically, was a little bit more of a rocker. 1206 00:59:42,300 --> 00:59:45,900 I felt like I just wanted it to be rounded just a little bit 1207 00:59:45,900 --> 00:59:47,699 more for like the marathon type efforts. 1208 00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:51,952 But for 5K, 10K, half marathon, I could easily see myself 1209 00:59:51,952 --> 00:59:52,888 ripping it. Yep. 1210 00:59:52,888 --> 00:59:56,000 And there's a little bit of flex to it still. 1211 00:59:56,320 --> 00:59:58,804 I mean, it's still stiff. Don't get me wrong. 1212 00:59:58,804 --> 01:00:01,829 It's a carbon plate. But I think, like, the range was 1213 01:00:01,829 --> 01:00:04,349 actually good. But, yeah, it actually feels 1214 01:00:04,349 --> 01:00:07,387 nice to have a little bit of a give and a less aggressive 1215 01:00:07,387 --> 01:00:09,293 rocker. It feels like a little bit more 1216 01:00:09,293 --> 01:00:11,379 of a natural toe-off. Without running it, I'm like, 1217 01:00:11,639 --> 01:00:15,089 that kind of sounds like what I want for a shoe. 1218 01:00:15,089 --> 01:00:17,280 It's really nice. It's on its way. 1219 01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:20,742 Yeah, I was genuinely, like, pleasantly surprised. 1220 01:00:20,742 --> 01:00:25,381 I was like, wow, this is nice. This is a good option on the 1221 01:00:25,381 --> 01:00:28,570 super shoe market. and it feels like it lines up kind of like 1222 01:00:28,570 --> 01:00:33,174 with that Puma Deviate Nitro, like, kind of in that space as 1223 01:00:33,174 --> 01:00:37,031 far as geometries go. And yeah, it's really, really 1224 01:00:37,031 --> 01:00:39,682 nice. It's a TPU also and it's super 1225 01:00:39,682 --> 01:00:41,824 grippy. I actually had no issues with 1226 01:00:41,824 --> 01:00:43,654 that. I've been really happy with 1227 01:00:43,654 --> 01:00:45,822 that. The upper is a knit material 1228 01:00:45,822 --> 01:00:49,033 that like, I'll try to hold it a little closer to the camera 1229 01:00:49,033 --> 01:00:53,648 here, but you can see it's kind of a stretchy knit on the top. 1230 01:00:53,648 --> 01:00:57,000 But then on the side, it's this reinforced jacquard mesh. 1231 01:00:57,699 --> 01:01:00,139 And we were talking about it at the event. 1232 01:01:00,139 --> 01:01:03,120 And it's like they built their own machine for this thing. 1233 01:01:03,219 --> 01:01:07,025 It's like a TPE, like nylon, like yarn fabric, crazy thing 1234 01:01:07,025 --> 01:01:10,254 that they've built. But it reinforces on the 1235 01:01:10,254 --> 01:01:13,089 platform really well, too. So it's really weird because, 1236 01:01:13,089 --> 01:01:16,689 like, from an upper standpoint, even though it's snug and lower 1237 01:01:16,689 --> 01:01:18,642 volume, it feels really comfortable on foot. 1238 01:01:18,642 --> 01:01:22,713 It's almost sock-like. And I didn't have any issues 1239 01:01:22,713 --> 01:01:26,331 with turning or, like, my foot sliding around or anything like 1240 01:01:26,331 --> 01:01:28,537 that. So I've actually been very, very 1241 01:01:28,537 --> 01:01:30,658 happy with the shoe. Is it synthetic-like? 1242 01:01:30,658 --> 01:01:33,080 Is it more synthetic than it is cloth? 1243 01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:37,519 Yes, but, like, a softer synthetic material, if that 1244 01:01:37,519 --> 01:01:40,506 makes sense. Like, when I think of synthetic, 1245 01:01:40,506 --> 01:01:44,799 I think of, like, the Adios Pro 5 or, like, the OG Nike 1246 01:01:44,799 --> 01:01:45,459 Vaporfly. Yeah. 1247 01:01:46,780 --> 01:01:50,323 Almost a scratchy material. This one is a softer, I would 1248 01:01:50,323 --> 01:01:53,804 say it's on that side of things, but it's on the softer end of 1249 01:01:53,804 --> 01:01:57,691 that spectrum. Kind of like the Puma Deviate 1250 01:01:57,691 --> 01:02:02,607 Nitro, whatever, not the Elite. Yeah, I mean, honestly, they're 1251 01:02:02,607 --> 01:02:05,679 pretty similar shoes. Yeah, very cool. 1252 01:02:05,679 --> 01:02:08,659 But yeah, I was super happy with it. 1253 01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:12,401 I think easily could rip a 5K, 10K, half, and there's no reason 1254 01:02:12,401 --> 01:02:16,537 why you can't run a marathon. I just felt like, for me, I just 1255 01:02:16,537 --> 01:02:19,774 wanted a little bit more rounding. that rounding I got in 1256 01:02:19,774 --> 01:02:21,615 the Adios Pro 5 for the marathon. 1257 01:02:21,615 --> 01:02:25,427 I feel like you flip the coin for the half, depending on the 1258 01:02:25,427 --> 01:02:29,214 geometry you prefer that day. Kind of bringing us into more of 1259 01:02:29,214 --> 01:02:32,649 a summary here, it is very interesting to me from a couple 1260 01:02:32,649 --> 01:02:35,586 different avenues what we were seeing, where, you know, back in 1261 01:02:35,586 --> 01:02:39,000 the day, it was Nike and Adidas had the most aggressive model. 1262 01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:42,324 Yeah, theoretically, you know, Adidas still has the Evo Pro or 1263 01:02:42,324 --> 01:02:44,764 the Pro Evo 3, which is not really widely available. 1264 01:02:44,764 --> 01:02:48,554 So most of them have access to the Adios Pro 5, just like the 1265 01:02:48,554 --> 01:02:52,683 Alphafly 4 is going to be kind of more thing that's more really 1266 01:02:52,683 --> 01:02:55,161 available. But I would argue the companies 1267 01:02:55,161 --> 01:02:58,419 that are putting out the most aggressive and intense shoes are 1268 01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:02,467 not the big ones. It's these other companies like 1269 01:03:02,467 --> 01:03:07,814 Puma, kudos to them, definitely went all out with the Deviate 1270 01:03:07,814 --> 01:03:13,154 Nitro 4 is a fantastic shoe. I feel like it doesn't get 1271 01:03:13,154 --> 01:03:15,820 enough credit. The Fast-R is insane. 1272 01:03:16,139 --> 01:03:19,956 You look at top people that aren't sponsored running in a 1273 01:03:19,956 --> 01:03:22,035 shoe. That's one of the go-tos. 1274 01:03:22,035 --> 01:03:26,891 You know, company like TYR, putting on something like this. 1275 01:03:26,891 --> 01:03:28,514 Mizuno. Mizuno's nuts. 1276 01:03:28,514 --> 01:03:32,532 They put on a shoe lighter than Adidas. 1277 01:03:32,532 --> 01:03:34,926 Just like, hey, we're going to do 96 ounces. 1278 01:03:34,926 --> 01:03:37,320 We have not tested that. What's it called again? 1279 01:03:37,500 --> 01:03:42,704 I don't even know. It's like something 96 grams. 1280 01:03:42,704 --> 01:03:46,568 You have the ones that, like, if you ask a runner, on, like, a 1281 01:03:46,568 --> 01:03:48,923 pedestrian on the street, what are the running companies, are 1282 01:03:48,923 --> 01:03:51,336 going to say Nike, Adidas. But it's interesting that some 1283 01:03:51,336 --> 01:03:54,743 of the most aggressive companies out there are the ones coming up 1284 01:03:54,743 --> 01:03:57,063 after them, and they're hungry, and they're doing well. 1285 01:03:57,063 --> 01:04:00,512 Like the Topo Spectre Elite has sold out multiple times. 1286 01:04:00,512 --> 01:04:03,540 That's not common. Most companies are going to lose 1287 01:04:03,959 --> 01:04:05,435 money on their super racer shoes. 1288 01:04:05,435 --> 01:04:08,625 When I was at Altra, I, I knew this from having asked this, 1289 01:04:08,625 --> 01:04:12,403 like, yeah, you You know, you don't make money on super shoes, 1290 01:04:12,403 --> 01:04:15,763 but it's really important for legitimacy in the running circle 1291 01:04:15,763 --> 01:04:19,455 to have a really good racer because, you know, there's a 1292 01:04:19,455 --> 01:04:21,800 niche of people that look for that. 1293 01:04:22,310 --> 01:04:26,015 But it's so odd to me because the majority of people out there 1294 01:04:26,015 --> 01:04:28,580 are not buying, are not usually looking for this. 1295 01:04:28,669 --> 01:04:32,788 They're looking for an Altra Torin or they're looking for an 1296 01:04:32,788 --> 01:04:34,658 Aura 2. A Brooks Ghost. 1297 01:04:34,658 --> 01:04:38,159 A Brooks Ghost. They're going to be looking at a 1298 01:04:38,159 --> 01:04:41,334 Nike Pegasus. And yet, it's interesting to see 1299 01:04:41,334 --> 01:04:44,000 how aggressive some of the quote-unquote, you know, 1300 01:04:44,620 --> 01:04:46,276 underdogs in the right terms have all been around. 1301 01:04:46,276 --> 01:04:47,379 They've been putting in the work. 1302 01:04:47,610 --> 01:04:50,150 But yeah, those are the companies we're seeing the 1303 01:04:50,150 --> 01:04:54,056 craziest stuff come out of. And it's an interesting 1304 01:04:54,056 --> 01:04:57,467 investment because, yeah, people are buying super shoes, racing 1305 01:04:57,467 --> 01:05:02,324 shoes more than any other time. You know, back when most of us 1306 01:05:02,324 --> 01:05:05,576 were in high school, that's not what people did. 1307 01:05:05,576 --> 01:05:08,603 People bought trainers. Maybe if they were doing a 1308 01:05:08,603 --> 01:05:10,520 marathon, they maybe bought a lightweight trainer. 1309 01:05:11,300 --> 01:05:13,828 The marathon, the racers back then were wild. 1310 01:05:13,828 --> 01:05:16,664 There you go. Like the Streak LT was super 1311 01:05:16,664 --> 01:05:19,370 minimal. And the only elites typically 1312 01:05:19,370 --> 01:05:24,374 ran a race in that shoe. Whereas the rest of us, you 1313 01:05:24,374 --> 01:05:28,187 know, we took a Pegasus or I'm forgetting some of the 1314 01:05:28,187 --> 01:05:30,219 lightweight trainers that I had at that time. 1315 01:05:30,719 --> 01:05:33,288 Or an Adizero Boston was probably the lightest thing we 1316 01:05:33,288 --> 01:05:35,080 were going to take for a marathon. 1317 01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:38,280 Now, you have more options than ever. 1318 01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:42,539 And like I said, I'm curious to know what you'll think from like 1319 01:05:42,539 --> 01:05:44,115 some of the more aggressive stuff. 1320 01:05:44,115 --> 01:05:47,133 DS Trainer? Yeah, that was a banger, man. 1321 01:05:47,133 --> 01:05:50,820 That was a banger of a shoe. You know what? 1322 01:05:50,879 --> 01:05:54,568 A friend of mine who has stocked up on DS Trainers, his last 1323 01:05:54,568 --> 01:05:58,813 pair, and he sent me a link that Adidas is now using that as a 1324 01:05:58,813 --> 01:06:01,775 lifestyle shoe. And he cried a little bit. 1325 01:06:01,775 --> 01:06:06,587 I feel like that's insulting. That's like a, like, hey, we 1326 01:06:06,587 --> 01:06:10,632 discontinued this shoe, and now it's like retro, like, chew on 1327 01:06:10,632 --> 01:06:12,100 that. Like, come on. 1328 01:06:12,620 --> 01:06:14,988 Like, don't. That's like a just doing, like, 1329 01:06:14,988 --> 01:06:18,540 hey, we're going to take the Adizero Tempo and make it retro. 1330 01:06:18,719 --> 01:06:20,422 Like, let's just, like, stab you. 1331 01:06:20,422 --> 01:06:22,120 Man, I'm going hard today. Sorry. 1332 01:06:23,339 --> 01:06:27,877 I curse not on the person in the family that does the, like, 1333 01:06:27,877 --> 01:06:28,924 heel. I'm sorry. 1334 01:06:28,924 --> 01:06:32,714 I feel really bad. But I'm curious what you all 1335 01:06:32,714 --> 01:06:35,108 think about that. Just off the top. his head. 1336 01:06:35,108 --> 01:06:37,936 Going, yeah, just not about the curse. 1337 01:06:37,936 --> 01:06:41,572 No, not that. The, like, what the type of 1338 01:06:41,572 --> 01:06:45,064 stuff we're seeing coming out from, like, you know, the 1339 01:06:45,064 --> 01:06:47,922 non-Nike, the non-Adidas. I'm not, that they're not the 1340 01:06:47,922 --> 01:06:51,670 end, I'm not saying this to be mean, they're not the end-all 1341 01:06:51,670 --> 01:06:53,530 be-all. Like, well, they might have 1342 01:06:53,530 --> 01:06:55,514 decent, you know, archers dropping. 1343 01:06:55,514 --> 01:07:00,559 The ones that, you know, in the U.S. tend to do really well is 1344 01:07:00,559 --> 01:07:03,565 Brooks, Saucony, Topo, On is pulling up really hard. 1345 01:07:03,565 --> 01:07:06,810 Hoka and On have taken a lot of market share from Nike. 1346 01:07:06,810 --> 01:07:10,615 You know, it's interesting to see what, like, Skechers created 1347 01:07:10,615 --> 01:07:14,879 their own machine to do that. What do you all think? 1348 01:07:15,820 --> 01:07:20,320 Yeah, I don't obviously have insider information on all of 1349 01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:25,260 this stuff, but I do wonder if there's an element where 1350 01:07:25,699 --> 01:07:30,105 because, like, as you said, creating a super shoe isn't 1351 01:07:30,105 --> 01:07:33,020 necessarily the thing that's going to make up the majority of 1352 01:07:33,020 --> 01:07:37,418 what keeps your company afloat. I wonder if the aim and the push 1353 01:07:37,418 --> 01:07:41,186 by some of these companies that want to increase their time and 1354 01:07:41,186 --> 01:07:45,009 space is to create something that creates a conversation, and 1355 01:07:45,009 --> 01:07:48,679 it's more of a way to get themselves some attention. 1356 01:07:49,479 --> 01:07:51,518 And that could be getting extremely low weight. 1357 01:07:51,518 --> 01:07:54,312 That could be some weird geometry you've never seen in a 1358 01:07:54,312 --> 01:07:56,935 new material. Like something that could be 1359 01:07:56,935 --> 01:08:00,755 relatively flashy. And I think that that, like, I 1360 01:08:00,755 --> 01:08:04,686 don't think what we do is, like, life or death, obviously, in 1361 01:08:04,686 --> 01:08:07,926 review issues. But I do think that that's where 1362 01:08:07,926 --> 01:08:11,356 we get to have some responsibility to not just look 1363 01:08:11,356 --> 01:08:15,211 at what they say is cool about something, but to actually test 1364 01:08:15,211 --> 01:08:17,640 it out and say, like, where does this actually work? 1365 01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:19,339 What does this actually play out as? 1366 01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:21,279 Is it something that's valuable for using? 1367 01:08:22,279 --> 01:08:25,880 So I don't know if that's why we see a little bit more, I'm not 1368 01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:29,126 even going to say innovation, but something more striking from 1369 01:08:29,126 --> 01:08:31,625 smaller companies because they're trying to get 1370 01:08:31,625 --> 01:08:33,886 conversation going and then maybe you're introduced to the 1371 01:08:33,886 --> 01:08:36,837 stuff that you're going to use on a daily basis because all of 1372 01:08:36,837 --> 01:08:39,229 these companies that do crazy stuff have nice trainers 1373 01:08:39,229 --> 01:08:41,679 underneath them. You know, like, I think Mizuno 1374 01:08:41,679 --> 01:08:44,439 has put out great trainers. We talked about Sky Prime, but 1375 01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:48,040 I'm thinking more just like their Neo Zen and the Neo Vista. 1376 01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:51,377 Like, the Rider's better. Like, I think that there's just 1377 01:08:51,377 --> 01:08:55,068 a lot of good underneath and maybe doing crazy stuff is a way 1378 01:08:55,068 --> 01:08:58,020 to just keep conversation going. or get it going. 1379 01:08:58,839 --> 01:09:01,158 But that could not be what's going on. 1380 01:09:01,158 --> 01:09:04,630 I do think from hearing some stuff, that is like the new 1381 01:09:04,630 --> 01:09:06,536 advertising. Everybody's like, who's the 1382 01:09:06,536 --> 01:09:07,572 fastest? What's the fastest? 1383 01:09:07,572 --> 01:09:10,363 Even if you're not someone who's running marathons or running 1384 01:09:10,363 --> 01:09:12,698 races, you're just like, what's the fastest wearing? 1385 01:09:12,698 --> 01:09:14,740 And it's still a form of advertising. 1386 01:09:15,279 --> 01:09:17,975 You know, it's like, and I think getting the conversation going, 1387 01:09:17,975 --> 01:09:20,667 especially with the, you know, how prevalent social media is, 1388 01:09:20,667 --> 01:09:23,951 being able to go, whoa, like the eye-catching stuff, like, it 1389 01:09:23,951 --> 01:09:25,479 sure helps sell product, absolutely. 1390 01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:27,615 But it's just interesting to see this. 1391 01:09:27,615 --> 01:09:31,840 David, what do you think? Yeah, I think it's a 1392 01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:35,332 multifaceted answer that we could probably have an entire 1393 01:09:35,332 --> 01:09:39,183 podcast on, you know, but knowing what I do, I think there 1394 01:09:39,183 --> 01:09:41,921 is a certain level of getting a conversation started for sure 1395 01:09:41,921 --> 01:09:44,920 but I think you also have to look at the goals of the 1396 01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:46,120 company. Sometimes they really want to 1397 01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:49,002 put a stamp on something and I think like with Topo and 1398 01:09:49,002 --> 01:09:50,850 Skechers that was what they wanted to do. 1399 01:09:50,850 --> 01:09:54,228 They wanted to come out with a banger that was immediately 1400 01:09:54,228 --> 01:09:57,684 comparable, if not better than what's out there to try and pull 1401 01:09:57,684 --> 01:10:00,366 a share. Where it was like, okay, let's 1402 01:10:00,366 --> 01:10:02,679 not just talk about it. No, we're going to sell this 1403 01:10:02,679 --> 01:10:06,010 thing out every time it launches or every time it comes out. 1404 01:10:06,010 --> 01:10:09,356 Where it's like we can't just release a standard Pebax super 1405 01:10:09,356 --> 01:10:12,162 shoe that everyone has because then no one's going to buy it 1406 01:10:12,162 --> 01:10:13,859 and the hype's going to die really quick. 1407 01:10:13,979 --> 01:10:17,419 So there's a lot of pressure coming at it from the outside in 1408 01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:21,707 in a market space that already has so much good performance 1409 01:10:21,707 --> 01:10:24,395 footwear. And I think depending on the 1410 01:10:24,395 --> 01:10:29,738 company and what they're trying to do, like I think some of it 1411 01:10:29,738 --> 01:10:33,438 is generally just getting something that's really freaking 1412 01:10:33,438 --> 01:10:36,705 fast out there that sets them apart from the other companies 1413 01:10:36,705 --> 01:10:40,045 that are already, I don't want to say established because these 1414 01:10:40,045 --> 01:10:42,096 companies are already established, but established in 1415 01:10:42,096 --> 01:10:45,204 the performance space as far as something you're going to see on 1416 01:10:45,204 --> 01:10:48,261 someone's foot. And maybe you don't see as many 1417 01:10:48,261 --> 01:10:50,431 Brooks-type period elites, but Josh Kerr is running in Brooks. 1418 01:10:50,431 --> 01:10:53,235 You see those spikes. You see plenty of Brooks 1419 01:10:53,235 --> 01:10:56,282 athletes, Brandon Miller, like you've got people who are 1420 01:10:56,282 --> 01:10:58,578 representing them and running fast at the highest level. 1421 01:10:58,578 --> 01:11:00,000 And almost every company has that. 1422 01:11:00,100 --> 01:11:03,103 So when you don't really have that representation, I think it 1423 01:11:03,103 --> 01:11:07,095 is good to at least put a stamp, if not with an athlete, but with 1424 01:11:07,095 --> 01:11:09,572 a piece of product. And I think that's what we're 1425 01:11:09,572 --> 01:11:11,704 seeing. A lot of intentionality and 1426 01:11:11,704 --> 01:11:15,983 attention to detail to really try and put a stamp on that 1427 01:11:15,983 --> 01:11:18,839 product. And I think, I don't know, I 1428 01:11:18,839 --> 01:11:21,687 mean, it's tough. I feel like obviously you gotta 1429 01:11:21,687 --> 01:11:25,619 sell shoes at the end of the day too and like R&D is expensive 1430 01:11:25,619 --> 01:11:29,404 and it's like going and doing all of this stuff it's like you 1431 01:11:29,404 --> 01:11:32,628 gotta make sure the ends justify the means too but I think it's 1432 01:11:32,628 --> 01:11:36,631 fun I think it's a little bit of a Wild West right now and we're 1433 01:11:36,631 --> 01:11:39,751 seeing some companies genuinely take some hard shots at some of 1434 01:11:39,751 --> 01:11:43,848 these like massive like industrious shoe companies and 1435 01:11:43,848 --> 01:11:48,612 yeah I think it's fun I think it's leveling the playing field 1436 01:11:48,612 --> 01:11:51,066 a lot and it's Yeah, it's exciting. 1437 01:11:51,066 --> 01:11:54,563 I think that's more, I think it's just fine to see so many 1438 01:11:54,563 --> 01:11:57,615 companies now having high quality options because it's not 1439 01:11:57,615 --> 01:11:59,547 like there weren't quality options before. 1440 01:11:59,547 --> 01:12:02,710 It just wasn't quite as good as what was already out. 1441 01:12:02,710 --> 01:12:05,537 And that's where it was like, okay, this is nice, but I'm not 1442 01:12:05,537 --> 01:12:09,380 going to pay $250 for this. Fast forward a few years, now 1443 01:12:09,380 --> 01:12:11,680 these companies are coming out with stuff where, like again, 1444 01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:13,588 they're selling out the second, for the Spectre Elite. 1445 01:12:13,588 --> 01:12:16,279 And I'm curious to see how the sales go for the Aero Elite 1446 01:12:16,399 --> 01:12:19,759 because those aren't out yet. But yeah, we'll see. 1447 01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:23,068 I think you hit something on the head where it wasn't that long 1448 01:12:23,068 --> 01:12:24,720 ago when all the superstitions come on. 1449 01:12:24,799 --> 01:12:25,459 I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. 1450 01:12:25,459 --> 01:12:29,551 I mean, it's like Nike really, the Vaporfly, the Alphafly were 1451 01:12:29,551 --> 01:12:31,779 like eons ahead of other companies. 1452 01:12:32,020 --> 01:12:34,789 It's like, okay, this is 250, but this really isn't that 1453 01:12:34,789 --> 01:12:39,950 comparable. I think that the first ASICS, 1454 01:12:39,950 --> 01:12:43,550 what was that first one called? Yeah. 1455 01:12:43,550 --> 01:12:45,606 The MetaRacer. The MetaRacer. 1456 01:12:45,606 --> 01:12:47,848 Absolutely. It just wasn't there. 1457 01:12:47,848 --> 01:12:49,991 Yeah, sorry. It's a high-level, it's a 1458 01:12:49,991 --> 01:12:52,133 forefoot. Yeah, no, but now you have 1459 01:12:52,133 --> 01:12:54,900 things, they have three different, actually more than 1460 01:12:54,900 --> 01:12:57,900 that, they have three different racers that, yeah, they are 1461 01:12:57,900 --> 01:13:00,188 really good. You get the Speed Ray, Sky, 1462 01:13:00,188 --> 01:13:03,136 Edge, where it's like, oh no, that is, these are better. 1463 01:13:03,136 --> 01:13:04,740 Those are taking down the Vaporfly. 1464 01:13:05,279 --> 01:13:09,514 You know, you have companies like TYR where it's, you know, 1465 01:13:09,514 --> 01:13:11,824 yeah, it's not that game anymore. 1466 01:13:11,824 --> 01:13:14,033 It's, it's competitive out there. 1467 01:13:14,033 --> 01:13:17,404 They're a good example because their first super shoe was kind 1468 01:13:17,404 --> 01:13:19,240 of meh. It was very meh. 1469 01:13:19,350 --> 01:13:21,852 It was like, it just wasn't quite as fast. 1470 01:13:21,852 --> 01:13:25,182 And it was like, okay, you guys did something, but you guys 1471 01:13:25,182 --> 01:13:28,623 didn't. Yeah, it's nice, but it's not as 1472 01:13:28,623 --> 01:13:32,811 nice as what's already out here. Nice is being generous, to be 1473 01:13:32,811 --> 01:13:34,416 honest. Because I bought it and I'm 1474 01:13:34,416 --> 01:13:35,955 like, I can't run this. David, you take this. 1475 01:13:35,955 --> 01:13:37,319 We never reviewed it. I was like, eh. 1476 01:13:37,799 --> 01:13:42,479 But this is like, yeah. So not only has the playing 1477 01:13:42,479 --> 01:13:45,454 field been leveled, people are swinging hard. 1478 01:13:45,454 --> 01:13:47,697 Yeah. And it's very, like, look at 1479 01:13:47,697 --> 01:13:49,995 Mizuno. going, oh yeah, we're gonna make 96 ounces. 1480 01:13:49,995 --> 01:13:52,759 We're, you know, the company that was once, even though they 1481 01:13:52,910 --> 01:13:56,639 have, for this one, yeah, like the pure, yeah, pure wild. 1482 01:13:56,639 --> 01:14:00,904 Like, this is, if you took this back, you'd be like, okay, I 1483 01:14:00,904 --> 01:14:03,584 don't think you're ever gonna make a super racing shoe. 1484 01:14:03,584 --> 01:14:04,919 You're just gonna be conservative. 1485 01:14:05,180 --> 01:14:09,195 They have the Rebellion Pro. You know, like, that was insane. 1486 01:14:09,195 --> 01:14:13,934 And then you have, yeah. So it is very cool to see people 1487 01:14:13,934 --> 01:14:17,872 take such massive swings and have the guts to do it. 1488 01:14:17,872 --> 01:14:22,108 And the great thing is that I think people are learning now, 1489 01:14:22,108 --> 01:14:24,962 we're never, because they're willing to take these risks, 1490 01:14:24,962 --> 01:14:28,251 because you're going to see this tech go into trainers at some 1491 01:14:28,251 --> 01:14:29,319 point. It already has. 1492 01:14:29,319 --> 01:14:32,484 We're seeing people, like, you know, she's like this, the top 1493 01:14:32,484 --> 01:14:36,160 layer, the Sky Prime, the top layer is a PEBA foam, you know. 1494 01:14:36,399 --> 01:14:38,951 There, we're seeing this bleed, and it's ready. 1495 01:14:38,951 --> 01:14:42,949 So it is cool to see everybody taking swings in the playing 1496 01:14:42,949 --> 01:14:48,589 field being, yeah, truly level for the first time in a very 1497 01:14:48,589 --> 01:14:52,151 long time, and putting some pressure on a lot of large 1498 01:14:52,151 --> 01:14:54,321 companies that I think have been able to, like, hey, we were the 1499 01:14:54,321 --> 01:14:57,379 best, we put up good stuff, and they're like, oh, like, we gotta 1500 01:14:57,379 --> 01:14:58,403 move. So it's cool. 1501 01:14:58,403 --> 01:15:00,698 I think it's a really interesting time. 1502 01:15:00,698 --> 01:15:05,625 I think people just need to be aware of the fact that flashier 1503 01:15:05,625 --> 01:15:09,076 and more aggressive doesn't mean better for the recreational 1504 01:15:09,076 --> 01:15:10,889 runner. I think people, as you talked 1505 01:15:10,889 --> 01:15:13,829 about, Nathan, we still need to a little careful about not 1506 01:15:13,829 --> 01:15:17,114 getting caught up in the hype, going, who is this really best 1507 01:15:17,114 --> 01:15:18,607 for? Because we're coming at this 1508 01:15:18,607 --> 01:15:20,884 from how do you stay healthy, because being healthy is being 1509 01:15:20,884 --> 01:15:24,279 able to get to the next race, the next day, the next event. 1510 01:15:24,279 --> 01:15:27,780 You know, we're, we, all of us have probably had injuries, all 1511 01:15:27,780 --> 01:15:30,420 had injuries at some point that we're trying to figure out how 1512 01:15:30,420 --> 01:15:32,580 to manage. Like, we're not pros, we're not 1513 01:15:32,580 --> 01:15:34,580 perfect. So we're trying to go for the 1514 01:15:34,580 --> 01:15:36,330 majority of consumer: what does this mean? 1515 01:15:36,330 --> 01:15:39,089 And I think that's still a relevant conversation needs to 1516 01:15:39,089 --> 01:15:41,385 be had. Not that it's bad that stuff's 1517 01:15:41,385 --> 01:15:43,815 coming out. I love that we now have a lot 1518 01:15:43,815 --> 01:15:45,680 more options with 5K, 10K. We didn't have that beforehand. 1519 01:15:46,359 --> 01:15:50,016 But people still need to be a little careful because faster, 1520 01:15:50,016 --> 01:15:53,250 lighter, aggressive doesn't always mean healthier, better, 1521 01:15:53,250 --> 01:15:56,814 longer. And so still things you need to 1522 01:15:56,814 --> 01:15:59,087 debate. Is this really worth for the 1523 01:15:59,087 --> 01:16:00,963 average runner? Not that there's anything wrong 1524 01:16:00,963 --> 01:16:04,388 with being an average runner, but what's going to keep you 1525 01:16:04,388 --> 01:16:06,719 healthy? But what's going to keep you 1526 01:16:06,719 --> 01:16:09,379 excited too? So there's a balance. there's no 1527 01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:12,683 as you said, there's no gatekeeping on who gets what 1528 01:16:12,683 --> 01:16:16,511 shoe, especially if you can go try them out at a local store. 1529 01:16:16,511 --> 01:16:19,787 It's pretty awesome, and find the stuff that you love and find 1530 01:16:19,787 --> 01:16:21,998 things that fit within your budget too. 1531 01:16:21,998 --> 01:16:25,778 And hopefully getting a little bit of insight from various 1532 01:16:25,778 --> 01:16:29,180 reviewers can be helpful. Dude, kudos to Skechers, $225. 1533 01:16:29,279 --> 01:16:34,225 I mean, that's so expensive, but, like, thank you for not, 1534 01:16:34,225 --> 01:16:36,919 yeah, stuff is wild today cost-wise. 1535 01:16:36,939 --> 01:16:43,544 They could easily make that $250 or $250 to match like Adios Pro 1536 01:16:43,544 --> 01:16:46,592 or whatever. That's quite the statement. 1537 01:16:46,592 --> 01:16:49,372 Fantastic. Well, thank you all for joining 1538 01:16:49,372 --> 01:16:51,705 us for this episode. If you've got other thoughts, 1539 01:16:51,705 --> 01:16:55,013 questions, things that you want to hear us talk more about, you 1540 01:16:55,013 --> 01:16:58,416 can either comment if you're watching on YouTube or you're 1541 01:16:58,416 --> 01:17:01,600 welcome to send us an email at doctorsofrunning@gmail.com. 1542 01:17:01,750 --> 01:17:05,166 We try to do a lot of mailbag roundups for at least one a 1543 01:17:05,166 --> 01:17:06,873 month. And we look forward to hearing 1544 01:17:06,873 --> 01:17:09,363 from you. And thank you for joining us for 1545 01:17:09,363 --> 01:17:09,859 this episode.