1 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,080 If you've listened to this show before, you know that I love 2 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:11,320 geeking out on bio mechanics and the science of running. 3 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,080 And that's one of the reasons that I took the Certified 4 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,640 Endurance Running Coach course from Run DNA. 5 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,320 It's a course designed not just for coaches, but honestly anyone 6 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,800 that wants to deepen their understanding of the science and 7 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,520 evidence behind how to manage things like training load and 8 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,960 design training so that you can get to the goals that you want 9 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:32,640 to achieve. It's a great course that blends 10 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:37,160 the evidence based and science based with extremely practical 11 00:00:37,160 --> 00:00:40,360 tools that you can actually use. Again, whether that's for 12 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,640 yourself in your own training or if you are someone who is 13 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,400 coaching others. It's also help me understand 14 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,560 training so that I can help other people that I'm working 15 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,160 with in physical therapy. This is a course that has been 16 00:00:52,160 --> 00:00:55,800 taken by over 10,000 people around the globe and I can vouch 17 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,680 that this education can give you a really solid foundation of 18 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:03,280 thinking of the why and how you go about run training for 19 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:05,680 yourself for others. If you want to check it out you 20 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:11,200 can go to rundna.com and use the code Dor 20 to get 20% off the 21 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,040 endurance coaching certification. 22 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,800 Everyone and welcome to the doctors who are running podcasts 23 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,240 where we, a group of doctors to physical therapy, talk about the 24 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,120 art and the science of things we put on our feet today. 25 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,520 I am extremely excited to have two fairly frequent and very 26 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:40,120 well known guests on the podcast, both Tina and Evan from 27 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,000 Brooks. We are going to talk about some 28 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,320 new releases coming up in the 202026 and maybe if they 29 00:01:46,320 --> 00:01:49,040 accidentally slip up, we might hear some 2027 stuff in here, 30 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,080 but that might get cut. So we'll see what happens. 31 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,320 But Tina, Evan, thank you so much for being on again. 32 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,960 Can you introduce yourselves for any new listeners out there to 33 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,440 give an update on kind of what you're doing and then we will 34 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,240 dive into some of the exciting things that are coming out? 35 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:05,920 Awesome. Well, happy to be on again. 36 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:07,400 Thanks, Matt. Yeah. 37 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:11,880 So my name is Tina Danforth and we're here at Brooks as a PLM 38 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,520 mainly focused on our speed and our trail products, but honestly 39 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,560 dip my toes in all products from our line. 40 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:21,960 So yeah, just happy to be here and and talk about some of the 41 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,240 consumer insights that we found with some of the shoes that 42 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:27,560 we're talking about for 2026. So thanks for having. 43 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,520 Me sweet. Yeah, Evan, I'm Evan. 44 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,360 I'm a manager here on the run research team at Brooks. 45 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,920 So working really in that like bio mechanics and perception 46 00:02:35,920 --> 00:02:39,320 space primarily on what you could say is like our Rd. 47 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,560 cushion shoes or the dynamic cushion category and then also 48 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,280 involved with innovation work within kind of the fatigue and 49 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,240 recovery area. Sweet. 50 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:49,920 All right. So Brooks had a pretty solid 51 00:02:49,920 --> 00:02:52,560 year in 2025. You guys have at the very the 52 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,360 most recent thing that we have right now is the Glycerin Max 2, 53 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:57,040 which has been a very, very interesting shoe. 54 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:58,760 And I don't know if you want to touch on that. 55 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,320 Obviously it's coming out. Actually by the time this 56 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,360 episode's out, it'll probably have just been released, right? 57 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,680 Because it's December 1st, right? 58 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,600 Great, great. OK, I am, I am remembering that 59 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:10,480 correctly. But there's also been an update 60 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,640 to the adrenaline, which is also always kind of really exciting, 61 00:03:13,640 --> 00:03:16,080 but can be scary for some people because their adrenaline is one 62 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,200 of those series. It's like if you can think of a 63 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,440 running shoe, the adrenaline is just kind of one of those shoes 64 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,320 that always pops up just because it's been such a standby. 65 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,480 And correct me if I'm wrong, GTS stands for Go to Shoe, not go to 66 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:28,920 Stability. Or which one was it? 67 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:30,360 Because I keep getting confused. Which one? 68 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,680 You know what the good thing about GTS in general is it's an 69 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:36,560 evolution. Got it. 70 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:42,040 OK, so in the future, you know it, it has stand for go to shoe, 71 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,680 go to support. Obviously all of our shoes have 72 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:46,760 support. So right now, I think in the 73 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,400 future we want it to stand for the guide rails technology 74 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,960 system. So not to to set us up as we 75 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,520 evolved our GTS experience, we want to make sure that we're 76 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:58,480 we're giving the consumer kind of that tried and true 77 00:03:58,480 --> 00:03:59,720 technology. Got it. 78 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,080 I thought it originally stood for to spill because that made 79 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,400 sense that I thought it said for go to shoe just because the 80 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:06,760 bricks adrenaline has been like one of the top selling shoes 81 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,120 like just ongoing and so I didn't know. 82 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:09,720 So. OK, got it. 83 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,240 So it's an evolving term. So I'm not wrong or correct. 84 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,960 That's good to know. I can stand in the Yeah. 85 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,800 So you guys you've had then you have the Brooks Hyperion Elite 5 86 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,040 and so doing the DNA gold, which I absolutely love. 87 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,320 You had the Hyperion Max 3, which I also love and has but 88 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,560 has divided our team. Some people really, really like 89 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:29,440 that shoe. I did. 90 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:31,800 Others kind of it didn't quite work as well, but you're 91 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,880 starting to move a move your products forward. 92 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,360 You are getting really into the performance line, which is 93 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,200 really good. But it sounds like one of the 94 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:43,560 key factors is refining the whole concept of experiences. 95 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,520 Would you mind talking a little bit about what that means and 96 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:51,600 what that means for consumers? Yeah, for sure it, it's a going 97 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,400 to be a big year for us for 2026 in experiences. 98 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,000 So what that means, I think for the consumer in general is like, 99 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,440 what is that that feeling from a mental and physical point of 100 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:03,320 view that we put in all of our footwear. 101 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:07,720 So when you look at, you know, an under foot feeling, sometimes 102 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,000 you want smooth and balance one day, sometimes you want an 103 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,960 energetic pop, sometimes you want to tune out, sometimes you 104 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,760 want to tune in. And so it's basically taking all 105 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,800 these like consumer mentalities and trying to create shoes that 106 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:23,160 give them options at the end of the day, because honestly, we 107 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,520 all want options. We all have a different mindset 108 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,840 going into each run. And so in the past, I think we 109 00:05:28,840 --> 00:05:31,120 used to look at it as like, here's your easy training shoe 110 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,440 and then here's your fast day or your your race day shoe. 111 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:36,640 Consumers aren't thinking that way anymore. 112 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,520 So they're thinking of ways that they can activate their foot or 113 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,720 maybe kind of do something that's a little bit easier where 114 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:44,160 their foot kind of takes a back seat. 115 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,440 So we're trying to give them all those experiences in 2026 in a 116 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:50,560 lot of different ways. So we'll see. 117 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,560 That's one of the reasons Evan on here, because one of those 118 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,120 new experiences is so unique that we need a doctor to talk 119 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,640 about it so. So Evan, if I can pull you on 120 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,680 for a second, I'm really curious because as a fellow biomechanist 121 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:04,720 here, like so how I don't know how to ask this question, so I'm 122 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,080 just going to take a shot at it. How do you see the experiencings 123 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,720 experiences translating into what you see in terms of the bio 124 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,040 mechanics lab? Is there an easy way to explain 125 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,000 what's that look at what that looks like? 126 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,280 Does experience always match with bio mechanics or is there 127 00:06:18,280 --> 00:06:21,520 sometimes some differences in that in that in those? 128 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,320 Yeah, great question. And the real answer is actually 129 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:29,160 A tag line from our SCP Carson Cabrera, where it's experience 130 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,280 like bio mechanics. If you think of footwear 131 00:06:32,280 --> 00:06:36,800 traditionally and how it's been for, I mean, decades, is it was 132 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,520 you are neutral or you are stability and you had to like 133 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,240 get bucketed into it. I mean, as Tina just said two 134 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,240 minutes ago, like all of our shoes have support. 135 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,640 But then there are additional technologies that like if you 136 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,320 have a need, they are there. So if you need a glide rail to 137 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,280 help with forward motion, it's there. 138 00:06:56,280 --> 00:06:58,320 If you need guide rails to help with some of that side to side 139 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:02,440 support more than like say than average, it's there. 140 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,120 And so we bake in the bio mechanics to all these different 141 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,480 experiences. But then where we'll get into 142 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,160 the new release, the glycerin flex, we're also looking at bio 143 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:15,080 mechanics of if that changes, how do we create a new 144 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,640 experience also? I like that and that's one of 145 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,680 the challenges. I think that like, and and we 146 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,840 know this and the listeners probably know this because I've 147 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:27,160 talked about this before, but in running shoe stores and this is 148 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,920 where this started for me, where I was always told like, hey, if 149 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,760 you see these bio mechanics, this is exactly the shoe that 150 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:34,800 the person needs. And then it didn't take very 151 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,480 long for me to go, that's not how this is working, right? 152 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,520 Why is it the person with the Super flat pronated feet doesn't 153 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,040 like the arch support and they really like a way more neutral 154 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,880 shoe that they're pronating and they shouldn't like I'm one of 155 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,840 these people, but it's like not working for them and you get the 156 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,320 person with the Super high arch rigid foot, which I'm told they 157 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:56,040 absolutely need source neutral shoe, you know, really curve 158 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:57,880 last and they're that person's going. 159 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:03,840 Please give me a a like a adrenaline or a like glycerin 160 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,320 GTS. Why am I always forgetting what 161 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:11,960 was the like high stability model back like 10 something 162 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,800 years ago before the glister and GTS? 163 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:17,720 Yes, it would transcend and there was something before that 164 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,640 was at the trance that I'm remembering. 165 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,440 Yes, OK, got it. So I've now my brains come back. 166 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,960 So at that time it was hey, we need to get him in a trance. 167 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:26,280 We need to get him in a transcend. 168 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,800 And they wouldn't like it and they'd go toward, for example, 169 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:30,960 they'd be like, no, I want my ghost or I want my, you know. 170 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,240 And so, yeah. So understand that bio mechanics 171 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,200 do not always like, if you only look at that, it doesn't always 172 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,440 match in terms of that comfort filter that we kind of learned 173 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:41,720 to look at a little bit more. So I like the idea of going. 174 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,040 And Evan, you said comfort, like, or what was the phrase you 175 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:46,960 used something in foreign bio mechanics. 176 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,480 Experience led by experience LED bio mechanics. 177 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:51,800 So we know that a lot of people's perception of what they 178 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,360 feel under foot is actually also predictive of what's going to 179 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,320 work for them. So I like the experience LED bio 180 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:58,720 mechanics. I'm definitely going to remember 181 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:00,640 that. Yeah, yeah, you, you nailed it 182 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:04,160 right on the head. Like if it feels good and 183 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,000 supportive, it probably is good and supportive. 184 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,920 Like that's always that first gut check and then it's really 185 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,520 on us to build products that are then available for people not 186 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:15,960 only on how they move, but what they want, where they move, 187 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,400 etcetera, kind of those holistic needs. 188 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:19,840 Got it. And so. 189 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,320 How are, how do you think the concept of experience is going 190 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,480 to help consumers understand what may work for them? 191 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:28,280 Tina, I think you mentioned like, yeah, it's like kind of 192 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,440 like what, what experience are you looking for? 193 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,320 Like are you be able to like to now? 194 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,200 Are you able to focus? You want something cushion. 195 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,560 Is there any kind of learning aspect that you think is 196 00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:39,520 integrated into this to help people understand what may work 197 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:41,840 for them versus what may may not well? 198 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:43,640 Yeah. I think with a lot of these like 199 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,280 we start with the consumer mindset kind of going into 200 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,120 these. So to your point Matt like 201 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,240 listener mats to the insight for that was run forever. 202 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:55,480 So is essentially like if we made a shoe that consumers felt 203 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,360 like they could run forever in, there's a part of that that is a 204 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,800 tuning out because you're just kind of getting into this like 205 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,000 flow state or zoning out and the shoes doing the work for you. 206 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,280 And so you have that in the glycerin series, but then you 207 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,160 also have a GTS. You also have a shoe that Evan 208 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,440 just referenced called the the glycerin Flex. 209 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,440 And then that insight essentially came in from someone 210 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,480 who was like, you know, the shoe is doing too much work. 211 00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:21,000 I want to do the work. And so now we have this like 212 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:25,320 juxtaposition of again, you can go into an easy day and your 213 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:27,440 legs are feeling a little bit tired and you're like, hey, I 214 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,520 need something to do the work. Glycerin Max 2, like perfect 215 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,440 shoot for that. If there's a day where you're 216 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:34,840 like, I need my foot just to have a little bit more 217 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,200 proprioception. I want to feel a little bit more 218 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,120 contact. I just want it to unleash my 219 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,880 foot a little bit more. Then you go to the flex. 220 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,720 So consumers like feel like that they have one shoe that they can 221 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,040 just run in forever. But honestly, like when you try 222 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,840 some of these new experiences, I think you understand that your 223 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,480 body is open to to more things than than than you figured. 224 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,040 So I think that's where Flex and Max have really shown that in 225 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,680 the the Glycerin series. And then we'll just keep 226 00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:03,520 expanding on those, especially in the fall. 227 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,520 It's not just kind of locked into TuneIn and tune out, but 228 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:11,040 there's like a almost like kick back and then an energetic pop. 229 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,680 So there are ways that we can kind of keep filtering in those 230 00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:14,840 consumer insights. So. 231 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:16,880 Sweet. So let's jump into those 232 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:18,680 experiences. Where do you want to start 233 00:11:18,680 --> 00:11:21,480 first? Well, I think we want to start 234 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,600 with the glycerin flex. It is story for us in spring 235 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,680 2026 for everybody at Tre, you're going to get to see that. 236 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:34,040 And honestly it came from this perfect like mind meld of 237 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,880 experience like bio mechanics and consumer insights. 238 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,880 So honestly, we we have it here to show, but I think we want to 239 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:45,000 start off with just like what we were unleashing in the lab and 240 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,480 then how that mesh with the consumer insight because it's 241 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,880 really made this extremely powerful story that I think 242 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,040 people kind of compare it to things that I've done in the 243 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:55,800 past. But it's really an evolution of 244 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,760 what this consumer is saying as far as just like wanting more 245 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,920 proprioception, wanting more feeling, wanting to tune into 246 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,400 their bodies a lot more. So that's where I feel like, 247 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,480 yeah, we can kind of do a little bit of back and forth between 248 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:08,720 Evan and I. Sweet. 249 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:10,200 I'm very much looking forward to this. 250 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,880 And I will admit to the listeners that I did know what 251 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,160 the glycerin, the glycerin flex was because I found it on eBay. 252 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,120 So the stereotypes about me exist for reasons. 253 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:22,840 So I will acknowledge that and acknowledge that I did, yes. 254 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,440 So I'm very excited for it. So can you tell us a little bit 255 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:27,920 more? Right on right. 256 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:32,240 So, yeah, so the glycerin flex, again, really new experience 257 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:34,640 rooted in rooting in the bio mechanics. 258 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:39,480 And no, from our side, no looking at let's say on the 259 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:41,080 other side of the spectrum is a Mac shoe. 260 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,560 And what we know from Mac shoes is it reduces the amount of 261 00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:47,080 motion at the forefoot, reduces the amount of motion at the 262 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,560 ankle. And that's has benefits, right? 263 00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:51,880 Like the foot doesn't have to work as hard, the calf muscle 264 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:53,880 doesn't have to work as hard to push off the ground. 265 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,360 But as Tina mentioned, like it's on almost the opposite side of 266 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,560 being connected and having proprioceptions to the ground. 267 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,360 It's really around that like Max cushion comfort etcetera. 268 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,880 Then you have our what we call the core shoe equivalent. 269 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,360 So you have the glycerin and then know we're doing it and 270 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,920 then the market is doing it where because the consumer 271 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,680 saying like we want more foam, so we're going up in stack and 272 00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:20,760 while the foams are getting softer, you know you are still 273 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,480 losing some of that connection a little bit like bending 274 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,560 stiffnesses are ever so slightly increasing with the additional 275 00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:29,640 material. And so like, well, where's that 276 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:31,280 opportunity to bring even further? 277 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:37,160 And that's where you look at the flexibility side and say, OK, if 278 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,520 we want to build a flexible shoe, what are those 279 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:42,960 opportunities or where do they even exist in the market? 280 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,680 And that's where if you want flexible in the current day, 281 00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:49,680 you're going to be lower stack and you're going to be firmer. 282 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,400 And so there's already an opportunity there to say, hey, 283 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:56,240 can we build flexible, but give you cushion and comfort and 284 00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:01,040 energy return and really bring that through into a shoe and 285 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,920 they'll also still feeling connected to the ground. 286 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:08,520 Then additional pieces from the bio mechanics side, when we 287 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,000 think of just, you know, some injury risk, there's some great 288 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:13,640 work. Thank you. 289 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:15,640 And Corey just talked about the other day, but like from Jim 290 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,960 Becker research where if you stay in prolonged E version, 291 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,120 that is an injury risk. So if you can build a geometry 292 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,840 that allows the foot to invert and push off or like re supinate 293 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,680 for a different term, that could potentially help from an injury 294 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,960 standpoint. And then thinking through where 295 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,920 people move and if you think of running uphill, there's more 296 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,200 motion at the forefoot to get up and over as you push off. 297 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,280 So if we actually say, hey, let's maybe build a flexible 298 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,920 shoe to help with maybe some of the uphill road running, there's 299 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,560 an opportunity there as well. So it's really around how's the 300 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,000 foot moving? Where are people moving and what 301 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:51,760 is the experience that we want them to have? 302 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:54,880 Yeah. And I think to add to that too, 303 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:59,120 Evan, and I'll go into it and I'll show a little bit of fun 304 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,200 stuff here. But basically, like Evan was 305 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,240 saying that consumer insight was like, how do I unleash my foot? 306 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:05,720 How do I get more proprioception? 307 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,360 But to Evan's point, like a lot of that comes with sacrifices. 308 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,960 And that's what we're trying to avoid here. 309 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,160 Again, like when you see the shoe flex, especially from the 310 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,680 lateral side, you see it really open up and allow that popular 311 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,760 design to like unleash that 4 foot. 312 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:25,160 But then as you go into that medial, obviously Co-op, you can 313 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,560 see how it locks up. So again, we're building in 314 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,480 support. Even when you feel like you're 315 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:32,840 unleashing your foot, I feel like sometimes that feels like a 316 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,080 sacrifice and it feels like two things that put up against each 317 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,440 other. But that's the the task that we 318 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,880 set the team out to do. So what I'm seeing right there 319 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,560 is what looks like an unlocking kind of about like the anterior 320 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,800 midfoot, right? So as, and for the people 321 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,480 listening who don't know, foot mechanics are such that when 322 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,200 you're landing, you do need to be able to pronate. 323 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,920 Pronation often gets kind of a negative connotation that just 324 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,120 describes emotion. And I might be hammering on this 325 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:01,080 because I literally just taught the foot and ankle courses for 326 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:02,840 George Fox here as I teach orthopedics here. 327 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,400 So when you put pronates it actually needs, that helps it 328 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,320 unlock the way. When you move into the E 329 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,800 version, some of the joints start to open and actually 330 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:12,160 become more flexible, which is great. 331 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,320 That's how you shock absorb. You obviously want to be able to 332 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,680 get out of that. If you just stay in it and 333 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:18,800 you're not able to get out of it, there is a risk there 334 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,200 associated with some injuries. But then as you're getting and 335 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,800 ready, getting ready to toe off, your foot actually needs to go. 336 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:25,280 The other way, as Evan mentioned, is you need to 337 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,120 resupinate because when you go the opposite way or invert, the 338 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:29,960 foot locks up. And I'm seeing that you guys 339 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,280 literally just imitated that exact same thing, which is 340 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,880 really, really cool. Or is that was the whole basis? 341 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:37,000 Huh. Imagine that. 342 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:38,280 Imagine that. Imagine. 343 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,160 Yeah, yeah, you nailed it right on the head. 344 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,400 Yeah, huge shout out to like Chris Erdel and Kaylee Deer when 345 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,600 the shoe was in the innovation process of really understanding 346 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,160 like the start and end points of that groove and kind of how it 347 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:52,920 goes through the midfoot etcetera. 348 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,200 You know, it's not the first time that we've seen as say an 349 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,880 open midfoot from Brooks. There's a Nero in the past, the 350 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,920 Aurora five years ago and this one really more intentional 351 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:04,160 around the the anatomy of the foot. 352 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:08,680 And when you think of like the sub tailor access or that joint, 353 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:12,800 it is diagonal from the long like line through the foot. 354 00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:16,839 And so when you do get that re inversion, that resubination, it 355 00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:19,319 really just opens up right with how that foot is wanting to 356 00:17:19,319 --> 00:17:23,480 bend. And as Tina mentioned, like very 357 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,440 intentional with the shoe of like all shoes need a base 358 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,480 amount of this support geometry built in. 359 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,920 So it still has no structured rear FOID. 360 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,680 It still has by like having a certain amount of width. 361 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,680 The sidewalls still come up and cradle the foot a little bit. 362 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,840 It still has a trampoline and a crashed groove and everything 363 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,280 around the lateral side. But then yeah, you get that 364 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,840 nice. We're calling the flex zone or 365 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,520 kind of what we call it all early days, the S groove. 366 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,720 And then when you look through the forefoot itself, you still 367 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,320 see like some of those pods really geometries and the 368 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,520 flexibility there just to really help bring that through all the 369 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,600 way. I think it's only great to be to 370 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,160 actually have a shoe that now has some flexibility because you 371 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,680 both mentioned that as shoes are getting taller and stack height, 372 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,560 you're naturally getting stiffer and stiffer and stiffer. 373 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,240 And with a lot of the excitement around plates and things like 374 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,160 that, which really are just stiffening agents, it doesn't 375 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,960 allow for those that maybe want a little bit more flexibility to 376 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,840 have many options except for going back to the lower stack 377 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:22,680 firmer shoes. So I think this creates a really 378 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,760 interesting thing and we know that like flexibility is very 379 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:27,920 person dependent. There's some people to do super 380 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:29,680 well with really stiff shoes. There are other people that 381 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,400 actually do really, really well with really flexible shoes. 382 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:34,840 So now have that makes sense that you know how part of your 383 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:36,200 experience is. Having options in the 384 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,120 flexibility category makes total sense. 385 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:40,560 Yeah. And exactly. 386 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:44,040 And that's where it fits right into like the Glister in series 387 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:46,800 is because you're getting that that level of cushion and 388 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,960 comfort while then hitting that new experience of cushion 389 00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:52,480 comfort with the flexibility and the energy return. 390 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:54,880 Got it. Can I ask questions about are 391 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,240 there any major updates to the rest of the glycerol line? 392 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,560 That's our biggest update. We try to focus on I think one 393 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:05,280 for the season for for those who I think have heard a little bit 394 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,680 about glycerin Max too. Again, we're still using our our 395 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,000 DNA tuned, but really trying to activate it with kind of the 396 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,800 geometries of the sidewall and then some of the sculpting that 397 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,080 we've done under foot. So it's really just trying to 398 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,160 keep that run forever mantra going. 399 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,480 But yeah, glycerin like that's our big story that we're 400 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,200 focusing on for spring 26 is flex. 401 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,400 And honestly, because it's going to take a lot to communicate 402 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,960 that to the consumer, We're, yeah, we're putting all our eggs 403 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:33,840 in that basket for sure. That makes sense. 404 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:35,800 Got it. Weird question for you too. 405 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,440 I I so now that I have got almost like 50 miles on the 406 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,480 glycerin Max too. I'm noticing with DNA tune that 407 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,680 if you like use a tuner like as a violinist, if I do an A note 408 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:49,160 to to standardize before I go for run, it actually changes the 409 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,480 mids. I'm just kidding, sorry jokes 410 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,280 had a lot fun in my head and I'm like, I'm going to try this on 411 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,800 air and this might BJ might cut that it was so bad. 412 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,640 Anyway, well, my guitar behind me isn't drop it. 413 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,680 That's fair. We got airline to you, Matt. 414 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:03,560 Okay, great. Good. 415 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,560 We're in tune. I am sorry. 416 00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:12,000 Tina usually will tune for instrument, you tune your 417 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,320 strings and so there's certain like Evan, do you have a 418 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,400 standard or do you tune each string? 419 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:20,320 I tune each string. I got it. 420 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,280 As a violinist, generally you do like an A. 421 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,760 You tune your A string and then you go, and then based off of 422 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:27,680 that, you tune the other strings to that. 423 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,920 So that's the joke. That's not very good. 424 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,560 Sorry Tina, and sorry to all listeners. 425 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,520 I I hope this stays in in the episode, I really do because 426 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,240 everyone, everyone feels like this is what I signed up for. 427 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,800 Please. See, for any students that 428 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,160 listen, by the way, there are people that do appreciate these 429 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:46,480 jokes that I make just every way. 430 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:47,920 I'm just going to let that out there. 431 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:49,640 We. Just drop an IP on how we should 432 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,720 do our DNA tune technologies in different manners. 433 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:53,720 Exactly right. So you can just use sound of it. 434 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,880 No, I'm just kidding. So, so big story from the 435 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,520 glycerin series, which is going to be your and please correct me 436 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,920 if I'm wrong on this. In terms of the like your softer 437 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,840 cushioned experience, that's kind of where the glycerin is 438 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:05,680 going to the glycerin series is going to be whether it's 439 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,480 glycerin Max, which again is more of the hey, you want to be 440 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,880 able to run forever the very efficient rocker bride, you have 441 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,080 your inline glycerin and glycerin GTS. 442 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,200 So you're more like, hey, I want just your traditional cushion 443 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,520 ride or maybe cushion ride with a little bit more guidance. 444 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,760 And then now the glycerin flex going, I still want something 445 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,360 cushion, but I want something that's not as stiff. 446 00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:26,760 And I still want to be able to get some metatarsal phalangeal 447 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,840 or toe bed here and do it in a very unique way that may 448 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,160 facilitate work along with football mechanic. 449 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,200 So that's very cool. So what's now happening with 450 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,000 some of the other lines? So you're it sounds like the 451 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,240 ghost line is also having its own interesting experience and 452 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,400 it's really cool to see. Hey, you've got Ghosts, you've 453 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,720 got Ghost Max. You know I've got Ghost Trail, 454 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,400 actually. Where's the Ghost series going? 455 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:51,440 Yeah. So I think that's like another 456 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,080 one we're super excited about. Like we're we're trying to 457 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,040 expand our our tried intrude series. 458 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,080 So again, we just talked about the glycerin, but the ghost is 459 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,040 having a huge impact in the spring and the fall for 2026. 460 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:07,120 So like you just mentioned, we we just feel like the ghost 461 00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:09,600 right now. It has that sweet spot of like 462 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:14,120 just fit feel ride like it. It just has this balanced 463 00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:17,120 approach that a lot of runners tend to resonate with. 464 00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:20,480 And so if we can create new experiences and promises in 465 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,800 there, it kind of keeps that ghost person like looking for 466 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,080 more and just like and bringing more consumers into the Ghost 467 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,400 series, which honestly just just benefits Brooks overall because 468 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:32,800 we have this promise with the ghost. 469 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:37,840 So in the spring you'll get to see the ghost trail, which I've 470 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:42,360 already done my first trail race in it as well was wonderful. 471 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:47,720 It was a mix of gravel and and smooth pass and honestly it was 472 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,040 fantastic. So it has that like ghost 473 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,680 promise built into it, but then you just see the flexible 474 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,040 protection in the upper. You see a little bit more 475 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,440 aggressive in the outsole. They took this kind of nature 476 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,320 theme and kind of this leaf shaped outsole pattern as well. 477 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:07,160 So really kind of bringing in that road to trail DNA into the 478 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,040 ghost promise. And honestly just the fitful 479 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,560 ride is fantastic. So this is one of those sneaky 480 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:13,720 ones. I'm going to be actually wearing 481 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,240 this all week next week because I love it. 482 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,840 It looks great, it feels great, but it honestly just someone who 483 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,640 has a trail nearby or gravel roads. 484 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,400 It really is just kind of tried and chewed in that space. 485 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,360 And so again, giving the promise of the ghost, but expanding it 486 00:23:28,360 --> 00:23:31,000 to the trail. And then there's something 487 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:35,520 coming in fall 26 that I can't talk about and I'm trying to 488 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,680 figure out how to talk about it. But basically one of those 489 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,840 things that we were talking about how consumers are looking 490 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,200 for new experiences. So Flex was a part of that. 491 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:51,760 There is also this new really energetic consumer that we tend 492 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,240 to find that is looking for energy with each step. 493 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,120 And so just because that goes kind of stands for that that 494 00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:01,680 perfect blend or kind of, you know, the best of all of our 495 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,240 mastery in one product, we feel like that there's an energetic 496 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,880 consumer in there is that that is looking for an unlock. 497 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,480 So that's coming in fall 26. It's under embargo, so we can't 498 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,480 talk about it. Matt, I will definitely show you 499 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:15,880 it after this call. Got it. 500 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,680 But I think it's one of those ways that we're just able to 501 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,400 bring new experiences within these trusted franchises, these 502 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,760 trusted series and make sure that those consumers feel like 503 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,520 they can go to a ghost. But then, you know, try a Ghost 504 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,720 Max on the days they want to tune out, you know, you know, 505 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:31,840 maybe a glycerin flex on the days they want to tune in. 506 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,000 And if they're looking for energy, more energy in their 507 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,240 step, they can go to this new experience. 508 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,400 Got it. And is the ghost Max, I'm 509 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,080 assuming, are you guys staying with, is there going to be a 510 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:44,960 ghost Max 4 in 2026 or is that going to be a 2027 We'll? 511 00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:48,040 Do that in 26 and it's actually one of our most impactful 512 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:49,800 updates for the fall as well. Got it. 513 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,600 So. We try to evolve it, you know, 514 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,600 little by little because it was a new, it was a new shoe for us 515 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,080 and we wanted to make sure we brought that consumer along and 516 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,320 and really just kind of mastered what we wanted to do with that 517 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:06,920 shoe. But in Where is it Fall 26, we 518 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,280 will update to the Ghost Max 4. Wow. 519 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,200 Some of those new bevels and geometries that can really make 520 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,080 that feel the toe just smooth like butter. 521 00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:19,920 You're really going to say bevel to Matt? 522 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,680 Yes. We, we. 523 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,640 I feel so heard. I feel so heard. 524 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,840 But yeah, it's bringing that consumer along just like a super 525 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:31,520 smooth transition from heel to toe. 526 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,880 And they just spent a lot of time again, just on just the 527 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,720 upper, just like, you know, those breathable zones, but that 528 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,640 super soft material, a little ease of entry tab on the heel. 529 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,120 And then again, adjusting those outsole geometries to really 530 00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:48,080 just like make it super smooth from heel to toe. 531 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:53,000 So kudos to the the the team that worked on this because it's 532 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,240 our best Ghost Max ever. And I think people are going to 533 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,760 be excited how smooth it is. Sweet and still very accessible 534 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,920 for orthotics I'm assuming? 100%. 535 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,520 Got it. Yeah, that it's probably so the 536 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,440 Ghost Max is one of those major shoes that for those. 537 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,240 And so the Ghost Map, the Brooks Ghost Max and Sockney Echelon 538 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,400 are pretty much like the only really great options on the 539 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,840 market when anybody emails us or I'm working with the patient 540 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,800 going, hey, what shoes going to work well with orthotics? 541 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,080 And actually have a question for you too, because I've made this 542 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,320 assumption, I've never asked. So it was my understanding that 543 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,040 most shoes aren't really developed with orthotic use in 544 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:29,760 mind. It's often like a secondary 545 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,040 thought Ghost Max Echelon, these are kind of different shoes that 546 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,240 are actually designed with that being able to have kind of a 547 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,000 deeper foot bed. Is that statement I just made 548 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,000 true or is that not true? Or is the answer probably? 549 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,440 It depends. Yeah, I guess probably the 550 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,320 answer is it depends. I will we, we always consider 551 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,400 like the consumers that are starting to gravitate towards 552 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,160 that shoe. So to your point, Ghost Max, a 553 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:55,480 lot of walkers, a lot of runners, but a lot of people who 554 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,080 just like need a little bit more volume in the upper. 555 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,320 And so with that to your point, we use a specific glass that 556 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,080 maybe we don't use with some other models. 557 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,520 The to your point, the sock liner is maybe different from 558 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,720 other models. So all of our shoes at the end 559 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,800 of the day, like when you consider a ghost still great for 560 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,880 an orthotic, glycerin still great for an orthotic, but some 561 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,160 of them are just a little bit deeper than other depending on 562 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,080 who the consumer is. The beast great example that you 563 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,880 obviously has been tried and true has had the same last for a 564 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,680 very long time because we know that that specific consumer 565 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,720 wants a very small evolution, evolution of that product. 566 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,600 And so we want to make sure we, yeah, do do justice by them. 567 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:35,800 Got it. That makes sense. 568 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,880 Then like the testing side, I think Ghost Max is a great 569 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,040 example example. We're recruiting people to test 570 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,160 the shoe in the development process, very much like get 571 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,280 people that wear orthotics because it absolutely needs to 572 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,320 function for them. That makes sense. 573 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,680 So they are it is designed with some of those in mind. 574 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,800 Maybe it's not the forefront, but a lot of like this needs 575 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,720 based on the consumer who knows going to use it. 576 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,360 You have to that makes total sense. 577 00:27:58,400 --> 00:27:59,120 Great. All right. 578 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,480 So that's no longer now I have a better answer for that. 579 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,200 All right. So Speaking of, is there 580 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,480 anything major for the Beast and Ariel that's coming out? 581 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,680 Are they still differentiated between beast and Ariel or is it 582 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,040 the same name? Has that changed at all? 583 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,760 OK, still beast. Ariel, anything major coming 584 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,280 from that? They are getting a fresh update 585 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,800 in an exciting way. So the feel will be just a 586 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,320 little bit softer and then just a tad more flexible. 587 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,320 I'm just trying to evolve with where where the consumers 588 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,440 basically telling us like, hey, we, we like these updates. 589 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,520 But really the most exciting thing from the beast was 590 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,240 actually in the testing results. Part of how we do all of our 591 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,920 product testing is asking around body aches. 592 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:47,680 And so we asked like, do you have more or less of body aches? 593 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,040 And then are they, or did you get body aches? 594 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,560 Is it more or less? And then are they like your 595 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,840 usual body aches? Are they new body aches? 596 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,360 So we tried to holistically understand that. 597 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:02,240 And with The Beast, we had 100% of testers not report body 598 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,920 aches, which is fantastic. But then the really exciting 599 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:09,520 part is that 1/4 of the testers said they usually have body 600 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,160 aches and they didn't. So we're really excited about 601 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,200 that benefit of like we're really bringing support along 602 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,520 with the beast and just kind of that tried and cheered 603 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,320 reputation that it should have. Got it. 604 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,240 Why do you think it it reduced body aches? 605 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:28,600 I'm curious if you know. Oh man, I, I think it's just a, 606 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,080 it's a kind of like, I think a little bit of that software, a 607 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,480 little bit more flex is just helpful. 608 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,520 You know, in the past it has been a very robust platform 609 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,000 which works for a lot of people across like different use cases. 610 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,680 And I think, yeah, just we know there's benefits of software 611 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,160 such as like pressure is reduced a little bit under foot. 612 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,440 And then just again, it's just a little more flexible. 613 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,880 Like it's not anywhere like a neutral core shoe flexibility 614 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,280 just a little bit more than tuition has in the past. 615 00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,760 And that could just work a little bit better with the foot 616 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,040 if I had to speculate, like the high level of where we think 617 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:04,800 that benefit is coming from. Got it. 618 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,800 And then the fit. The fit is also just fantastic 619 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,080 on the shoe as well, which has to deliver on the beast. 620 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,040 And great fit is so important when it comes to bringing the 621 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,160 entire shoe unit together. I'm very happy that you all are 622 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,640 keeping that that line alive because there's a lot of 623 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,440 consumers that do extremely well with that. 624 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,360 So that's great. The big question is I've heard 625 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,440 and I know this might be Nurbago, so BG may have to cut 626 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,680 this is that you guys, the beast is actually becoming, there's a 627 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,160 super beast now, right? It's good. 628 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,680 There's the Super, the the beast racer that's coming out that 629 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,040 will be like a super foam, right? 630 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,240 Full length DNA gold has a carbon plant. 631 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:38,080 I'm just kidding. I'm just. 632 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:39,600 Telling you about that. OK, OK, great. 633 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:48,080 Five stack height, double plate, 5mm outsole, DNA gold. 634 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:49,480 Got it. Awesome. 635 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,640 It comes in a massively lightweight 10.8 oz for a lot 636 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:55,880 of. GCS got renamed Matt. 637 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:57,000 OK, got it. Awesome. 638 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,560 OK, got it. I was for the listeners, I was I 639 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,760 was joking with Tina and Evan earlier that like, hey, you guys 640 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,360 should just make up models and just say that they'd like just 641 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,760 put these things out here and then just see what the the 642 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,840 product team like at Brooks does. 643 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,280 Like, I don't think we should do that. 644 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,680 OK, so Speaking of DNA gold, what is happening in the Brooks 645 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,080 performance line? I'm very curious to 2025 was a 646 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:22,840 really big year. It was like moving forward 647 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,920 again. I really, really enjoyed the 648 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,040 Hyperion Max 3, right? The DNA Gold I really, really 649 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,120 enjoy as a foam. It's really bouncy. 650 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,280 It wasn't the most stable for me until I picked up the speed, 651 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,920 which is why that was a great shoe before long runs, where my 652 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,600 wife loves to pick up the pace on long runs, which is really 653 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,920 challenging for me pushing a 60 LB stroller behind her and 654 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:44,320 trying to keep up. So it definitely helped me 655 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,520 survive a lot of those. But what's happening in 2026? 656 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,400 Yeah. So another big year for racing 657 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:55,160 for for Brooks. So we obviously now are are 658 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,000 getting close to leading up to the Olympics and essentially a 659 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,040 couple years when it comes down to it because Olympic trials 660 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,360 will just be right around the corner in a couple years. 661 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,560 And So what we're trying to do is bring that like jumpstart of 662 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:13,920 innovation now. So for fall of 2026, we'll have 663 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,600 the Hyperion Elite 6. So we'll talk about that at Tre. 664 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,920 It'll be a new and improved DNA gold, So it'd be lighter, more 665 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:26,320 responsive and new geometries that honestly, we used a lot of 666 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:30,840 insights from CJ Albertson to work on this shoe and a lot of 667 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,120 his insights came more from the mechanical advantage than 668 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,120 natural. So HE5 Hyperion Elite 5, we felt 669 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,160 came from like more of a natural point of view. 670 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,160 Like how can we give you the best film that we make, the best 671 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,000 plates, the best geometries, but it just feel more natural and it 672 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:46,240 feels like you're doing the work. 673 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,120 Now we're going back from that, like doing the work. 674 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,960 Now they want the shoe to be more mechanical for them. 675 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,560 So a lot of those insights really came from CJ. 676 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,840 And again, again, this new DNA gold foam, that slider, new 677 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:00,880 geometry. So we're actually putting more 678 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,160 DNA gold in this than ever before. 679 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,560 So it's tough to say because obviously, well, it's tough to 680 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,200 quantify, but World Athletics obviously gives us certain 681 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,560 standards, which is great. We love certain standards. 682 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,040 So it's actually hard to put more volume of DNA gold into a 683 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,280 product when your starting point is the same for everybody else. 684 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:24,760 And so from Hyperion Elite 4 PB to Hyperion Elite 5 to Hyperion 685 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:29,000 Elite 6, we've actually put more volume of DNA gold in this 686 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,160 product. So this new improved DNA Gold 687 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,960 Plus will have more than DNA gold, but at the end of the day, 688 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,360 you're getting less fatigue, more responsiveness and again, a 689 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,160 greater toe off by the way that we're able to essentially take 690 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,800 the greater foam in the forefoot and dip that plate lower than we 691 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,600 ever have before. So we can kind of talk about how 692 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,880 that really creates A propulsion and an advantage for our 693 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,600 athletes, but really it's doing little tricks of the trade to be 694 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,160 able to get more foam into this. Do I see that midfoot filled in 695 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,720 a little bit more A. Little bit. 696 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,600 But yeah, so it it's really just like trying to give with the 697 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,600 restrictions obviously that that we're all given just more 698 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,440 advantage for our athletes. And again, we really need to the 699 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,159 insights that we had from C2, just like really wanting 700 00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:23,719 mechanical advantage and really taking this power transfer from 701 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,000 heel to toe and trying to get the most out of that. 702 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,080 So yeah, Evan, you could probably elaborate on that. 703 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,080 Yeah, now you nail it right in the head, dude. 704 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,360 The athlete insights were really one of the biggest driving 705 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,800 factors for this one and shut out like Daniel Scholl, Danielle 706 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,840 Jordan, Jesse Frank for doing all of the work here with really 707 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:43,800 pushing the Hyperion Elite series forward. 708 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,440 But yeah, you know, it's basic around. 709 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,600 Yeah, the plate function of really helping like the calf 710 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,320 muscles work. I'll say it's easy as possible 711 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,560 when you're able to get some of that larger rockering benefit, 712 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,320 just decreases the amount of torque required from the calf. 713 00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:02,920 Well, some of the other concepts really coming through with where 714 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,280 the Hyperion Elite is going is just how the team thought about 715 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,960 energy, mostly like energetics in the midsole. 716 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,200 You know, traditionally it's around what's your percent 717 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,200 energy return. I can't speak too in depth 718 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,800 around kind of where they went with the point of view, but 719 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,520 we're really excited about they thought about just midsole 720 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,880 energetics a little bit differently and brought new 721 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,720 concepts of how that can come through in the shoe. 722 00:35:23,720 --> 00:35:26,560 And we're really excited for that to really showcase in 723 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,560 future models. And then, yeah, around that 724 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,720 geometry through that rocker, Tina, I think mentioned, you 725 00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:34,520 know, changes some of the curvature a little bit. 726 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,160 And the team did a lot with using like planner pressures to 727 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,320 inform some of that rocker shape to kind of spatially understand 728 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,080 under the foot, where is the foot interacting with the shoe 729 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,240 and then how can you really maximize that power transfer 730 00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:50,120 based on how the foots interacting with it. 731 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,640 So it is kind of that mechanical then with how the foots 732 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,880 actually, you know, basically loading up onto the platform and 733 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,560 making sure that the athletes getting as much as they can out 734 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,520 of that shoe. I like that concept when you 735 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,720 mention like how the foot is interacting with it, because I 736 00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:09,360 feel like oftentimes the at least in the past, a lot of the 737 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,560 major talk outside of where you, you 2 are in terms of very deep 738 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:15,440 in the in the development world is going. 739 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,160 How are as we as humans responding to a shoe rather than 740 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:20,960 going no, this is a two way street, right? 741 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,120 The it's you responding to the shoe. 742 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:24,960 And there's also the point of how the shoe is actually 743 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,520 responding to you, right? And that chain can change over 744 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,000 time and that can vary. So I like this, that console 745 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,280 that the interaction between the two things that people often 746 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,560 don't think about because they think about I'm just putting on 747 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,240 a shoe and it's in I and like it. 748 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,480 It does something to me rather than going I'm also doing 749 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,880 something to it. And that two way thing is really 750 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:45,800 important to kind of pay attention to because it's it's 751 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,280 it's more it's more complicated than just a one way. 752 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,080 Yeah, so I'd like that. That's cool. 753 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,600 Awesome. Anything new on the Hyperion Max 754 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,360 series in terms is there a Hyperion Max 4 or we have we 755 00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:01,360 have to wait for 2026? Hyperion Max 4 we are going a 756 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,000 new upper there because obviously that that DNA gold was 757 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:06,880 tried and true. We really love the update there. 758 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,200 So we actually are going new upper that just focuses a little 759 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,560 bit more on sub elite insights and believe it or not, like 760 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,480 whenever we talk to sub elites or even pros, whenever they talk 761 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,400 about their training shoes like when you look at it elite shoe 762 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:22,960 again, we're stripping away every oz because every oz 763 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,840 matters. 100 grams could be 1% more efficient. 764 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,040 And so we want to make sure that we're, you know, taking away as 765 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,480 much weight as possible. Now when you get to a training 766 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,680 shoe, it's almost like don't like I want the benefits of a 767 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,320 super foam, but let's not take the upper too seriously because 768 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,960 at the end of the day, I'm doing most of my job in this shoe. 769 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,760 So it's really leaning into just like some softer cues, keeping 770 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,680 it nice and breathable, but keeping it kind of that great 771 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,760 like race to train or train to race shoe that we had so. 772 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:53,600 That makes sense. Are you allowed? 773 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,400 You said that there there's a new variation of DNA gold. 774 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,960 Is that only going to be seen in the Hyperion Elite 6? 775 00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:01,800 Is that bleeding into Hyperion Elite 4? 776 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,600 Is the Hyperion Elite 4 staying with the tried and true of what 777 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,440 we saw in version 3? Yep. 778 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:10,080 So Hyperion Elite 6, we'll get that new DNA gold and then we'll 779 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:14,520 debut it there. So you know, 2027 will be a big 780 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,920 year of how we start to proliferate that 2028 is an 781 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,680 Olympic year as you know, Matt, that that's when things get wild 782 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,440 for all brands. And so we'll be, we'll be, we'll 783 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,320 be in that as well. But really it's starting off 784 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,560 like how can we take that great foam now and start to 785 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,760 proliferate it. So that will be more of a 2027 786 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:32,680 story. Right. 787 00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:35,880 And I want to clarify for listeners that, you know, those 788 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,800 in the industry get really excited that you have to realize 789 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,400 that to, to actually get a shoe from concept to development. 790 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,840 And Tina, please, Evan, please correct me if I'm wrong, if this 791 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,040 has changed all that, it can take anywhere from three to five 792 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,920 years of like, Hey, we sketched this out to actually getting it 793 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:50,400 to market. So when they start thinking 794 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,600 about, you know, Olympic trials that usually, I'm assuming that 795 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,640 usually start either before the previous Olympic trials or like 796 00:38:56,720 --> 00:39:00,880 day after, like, OK, here's what we're starting in prep for four 797 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,080 years from now. So even though some people like, 798 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,120 hey, there's, there's a little bit of time like Nope, this, 799 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,000 this stuff has already started. It goes through the whole cycle. 800 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,840 So that's hence why you got to start early with this. 801 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,360 Is there any change on that or is that still pretty consistent 802 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,760 with where that's that's usually the general timeline of how long 803 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,880 it takes to develop a shoe? Yeah, I think everybody's trying 804 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,720 to get that timeline down just because innovation is happening 805 00:39:21,720 --> 00:39:25,200 so quickly now that we want to make sure that when we work with 806 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,120 our partners that they are developing as quickly as we need 807 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,760 as well. So the earlier we start, the 808 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,200 harder it is to get more relevant when we get to market. 809 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,640 So I'm trying to shorten those timelines and we do that a lot 810 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,040 on our athlete products. So, you know, maybe it's a year 811 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:45,320 and a half of from concept to market, but if you talk about a 812 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,920 ghost like we want to make sure we take our time there. 813 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,760 So we build that into our calendars, but the goal is to is 814 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:53,080 to shorten that as much as possible. 815 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,120 That makes total sense. Yeah, it's fun for me personally 816 00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,440 talking to individuals like yourself to be like, Oh yeah. 817 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:00,960 And I have, I've had conversations with people going 818 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,480 Oh yeah, like the, the certain, the, the ghosts Right now I'm 819 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,480 like, oh, I forgot that's coming out right now. 820 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,680 I'm like working on like ghosts, you know, 30 or something like 821 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:10,720 that. And it's like, yeah, it's way, 822 00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:12,240 always way ahead working on stuff. 823 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,320 So how what is happening to the Hyperion? 824 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,640 Is there any major updates for that shoe? 825 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,040 So no major updates to the Hyperion. 826 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,360 And we'll say with these new experiences that we're starting 827 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,200 to build in the glycerin in the ghost, we're going to start to 828 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,760 see this Gray area of energy being proliferated into those 829 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,160 two series. And then the Hyperion is going 830 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,560 to take a turn for the crazy. So it's not going to happen in 831 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,920 2026. So that's I think that's the one 832 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,280 little boop, the one little leak that we that we can put on here 833 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,200 for our listeners to get excited about. 834 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:49,840 The Hyperion is going to get crazier than ever. 835 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,640 So think about it as truly elite focused. 836 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,600 We want to make sure that we're giving them from start to 837 00:40:55,600 --> 00:41:01,240 finish, everything they need for training, race day, speed work 838 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,000 and really focus on those athletes there. 839 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,960 That's why we're injecting some of that energy into glycerin and 840 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,560 ghost because we still have these energetic consumers that 841 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,880 we feel like want the promises of the fit, feel and ride of 842 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:15,920 glycerins, but to a different level. 843 00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:19,360 So that's the a little little nugget I'll drop there. 844 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,520 Got it. All right, I'll look forward to 845 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,440 that. So let me know if there's 846 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,880 another. I think there may be 1 shoe that 847 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:27,960 you might want to discuss before you go this direction. 848 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,480 So I was going to take us into the trail world because most of 849 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,440 the world, especially at Western states, got to see something 850 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,280 really cool on a certain person's feet. 851 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,000 Is there anywhere you want to go before we jump into the trail 852 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,720 and talk about that shoe and a few other things that are coming 853 00:41:41,720 --> 00:41:44,160 out in terms of the diversifying of the Cascadia line? 854 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,800 Yeah, I, I think that's like the one thing we always we talk 855 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:52,120 about Rd. shoes so often, but we are doubling down on our 856 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,520 Cascadia as a series. So we're going to start 857 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:58,000 expanding that because it's one tried and true, it has the most 858 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,520 history for us. But also we feel like we can 859 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:02,840 bring new experiences to those consumers as well. 860 00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:08,120 So we do have the Cascadia coming out in fall 26. 861 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,920 And so that will get an adjustment to stack height. 862 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,360 So we were seeing a lot of like our Caldera and our Cascadia 863 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,480 consumers kind of speaking the same language. 864 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:21,120 And So what we wanted to do is merge those two experiences and 865 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,720 give it tried and true to that Cascadia consumer. 866 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,040 But what we're trying to lean into from a Cascadia series 867 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,320 promise is essentially this idea of adaptability. 868 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,840 This is the one series that we had that goes on 3D surfaces. 869 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,920 And so we want to make sure we build in again, all of these 870 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,480 release joints and then kind of make sure we focus on that mid 871 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:47,440 foot flexibility to create an adaptable shoe on 3D surfaces. 872 00:42:47,720 --> 00:42:50,560 So the Cascadia, that will be the 20 version that gets a huge 873 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,440 update. But to your point, Cascadia 874 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,560 Elite, I'll also be wearing this at Tre. 875 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,520 The one thing I mean, I could say a million things about this 876 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:05,440 shoe, The team that worked on it is fantastic and they put a lot 877 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:10,000 of thought and just how can they go the distance almost like that 878 00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,240 run forever point of view, but in elite trail racing shoe. 879 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,560 And so the the stories that I love about this, I mean, the 880 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,200 technology is great. But Chris Myers, again, to your 881 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:23,360 point second, at Western states, 50% of our athletes who've worn 882 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,080 this have podium. So they're telling us that 883 00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,240 everything that we did is working for all distances, all 884 00:43:29,240 --> 00:43:32,520 distances that they do. But again, it has that DNA gold 885 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:36,280 top and bottom. We have a a fiberglass and a 886 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,360 carbon plate right in the middle. 887 00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:45,360 But basically it filters almost like a help me out Evan it's. 888 00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:47,720 Kind of like a horseshoe or like AU shaped? 889 00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:48,400 Yep. Yep. 890 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,200 And basically the goal there is as you're hitting those 3D 891 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,040 surfaces, it's stabilizing you on the outside with a soupy 892 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,520 software pontophone. So again, really proud of this 893 00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:58,840 shoe. Super excited to launch it. 894 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:00,840 It's been out there. I feel like we've been talking 895 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:04,520 about it enough, but finally people at Tre will get to see it 896 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,880 live in person. That's a 2026 shoe right? 897 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,440 Cuz even though there were people that we saw it and 898 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:12,440 reviewed it. We have I've not tested it yet, 899 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,840 but that's a 2026 release, correct? 900 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,000 Okay, got it. Awesome, so you have new 901 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,280 Cascadia that is, correct me if I'm wrong, merging Caldera and 902 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,480 Cascadia together. So there will not be another 903 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,080 Caldera but it will continue to live on in the newest Cascadia. 904 00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:30,200 You have the Cascadia Elite. Is there any other any other 905 00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,160 major changes happening to the trail line? 906 00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:35,640 Yeah, I think it's doubling down there. 907 00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,520 And then I think we're going to be in this shrink to expand 908 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:41,880 point of view. So again, we feel like the 909 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,440 Cascadia is tried and true. So we want to continue to hit 910 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,000 home everything that we do from that consumer perspective, see 911 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,960 how we can grow it. To Evans point, some of the 912 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,880 things that we've done with our TuneIn and tune out, we'll start 913 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:56,960 to bring that into the Cascadia series as well. 914 00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:01,840 So it's one of those let us like focus in and then we'll start to 915 00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:03,280 bring some new experiences as well. 916 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,720 It's tough because one of the things that we do is we try to 917 00:45:07,720 --> 00:45:11,040 figure out all the things that we can infiltrate in one year. 918 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:13,240 And so with everything that we're doing in Glycerin, 919 00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:15,080 everything we're doing in Ghost, everything we're doing a 920 00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:19,240 Hyperion, the Cascadia will be a slow grow for 26 and then it 921 00:45:19,240 --> 00:45:22,040 will really, really take off in 27 and 28. 922 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:26,440 So more, more things coming, is the cat about getting an upgrade 923 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,400 or is that getting integrated somewhere? 924 00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,080 It'll get integrated somewhere for sure. 925 00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:35,040 Think about similar things that we're doing with Hyperion. 926 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,720 We'll we'll start to bring more athlete focused products to the 927 00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:39,920 trail as well. Got it. 928 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,560 So that'll be really exciting. So if there's any other ones you 929 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:44,640 want to talk about, let me know. But the last one that I want to 930 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:48,120 talk about is often not focused on from like the like the 931 00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,680 classic reviewer standpoint, but it's been a favorite Bach and I 932 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:54,120 have loved this shoe as being a really accessible shoe for a lot 933 00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,200 of people and still being in that relatively affordable 934 00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,440 realm. Sounds like the Revel is getting 935 00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,720 a unique upgrade. Knows there's a Revel Max. 936 00:46:01,720 --> 00:46:03,960 Can we talk about that or is it does that have to be 1 of the 937 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,520 hey I found this on eBay and I just talked about it and we have 938 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:07,760 to be quiet? About it. 939 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:09,520 OK, got it. Great. 940 00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,880 Just maybe quick question before Rebel Max that I do want to 941 00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:16,160 segue on something Tina mentioned at the end with the 942 00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:17,800 Cascade Elite and like the athletes. 943 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:22,520 And then because that was actually a huge kind of push 944 00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:26,040 with developing that shoe was how much testing the team did 945 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,840 like directly with our, we call it MASO, Europe, Middle East, 946 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,160 Asia sponsored athletes and then also the North American athletes 947 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:36,680 as well. And then a lot of the insights 948 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:38,560 that run research is able to get there. 949 00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:43,040 We're very intentionally testing on like uphill, downhill, smooth 950 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:47,600 technical terrains and everything from like metabolic 951 00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:52,280 cost to heart rates to using they're called IMU. 952 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,480 So they have like accelerometers and then gyroscopes and measure 953 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:59,400 rotational speeds. Yeah, Megan, Alfie, Daniel Chill 954 00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,880 and Chris Card Junior did a lot of work and just have an 955 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:04,800 absolute plethora of information there. 956 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,920 So it's really important that we continue to utilize that and 957 00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,800 really feed in like where these trail shoes can really sign just 958 00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:13,120 with the push we're trying to do with them. 959 00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,560 Sweet, that's especially child like that's that's cool to hear 960 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:20,080 pushing forward in the past. There was some recent research. 961 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,120 It wasn't research. It's it's you know, when you 962 00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,120 ever you do research, it's it's fairly old. 963 00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,480 It takes so long to actually get stuff and publish it. 964 00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,320 There was some research suggested that some of the older 965 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,520 original like carbon plated trail shoes. 966 00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,120 Actually we're not improving running economy compared to 967 00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:36,160 other shoes just because I think and the the authors talked 968 00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:39,200 about, hey, maybe it's not as adaptable, may not be as stable 969 00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:41,440 and a lot of athletes may not see as much benefit. 970 00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,840 But it sounds like you guys may have cracked the code on this 971 00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,160 going, Hey, we want to make issue that's actually adaptable, 972 00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,320 really specific to the terrain, which is why specificity of 973 00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:50,960 development. We talked about specificity of 974 00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,480 training from like a rehab standpoint, performance 975 00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:55,640 standpoint, but specificity of development so important. 976 00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:59,280 You can't just take a rose super shoe and throw it on the trail. 977 00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,440 That is it's a completely different set of variables. 978 00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:04,080 It sounds like that's where you all went is going, Hey, we're 979 00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,600 actually going to do in in on in field testing. 980 00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,360 We're going to see how this goes, and so kudos to taking 981 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,480 that farther forward. Now, Evan, do you guys have any 982 00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:14,640 modifications you guys do to your treadmill in terms of like, 983 00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,280 can you create like unstable terrain on the treadmill? 984 00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:20,600 I've heard some of these things. I don't know how frequently they 985 00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:24,760 are actually used in practice. No, we went funny enough, one of 986 00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:28,400 my professors at Iowa State, Tim Derek, we had like in yeah, like 987 00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,840 unstable terrain treadmill. So if I go way back into the 988 00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,480 archives, I've seen one, but no Megan Alfie just either 989 00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:37,640 literally travels to their side of the world to do testing with 990 00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,400 the athletes or we're lucky here in Seattle area, we have 991 00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,920 phenomenal trails. And so also says she she 992 00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:48,080 commutes out to do the testing and everything. 993 00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,400 But yeah, it's very she mapped out where we can get all the 994 00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,560 different inclines, declines and everything because, you know, 995 00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:58,640 with the Cascadia elite, like UTMB was the focus and it was a 996 00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,840 lot of how do you get people from like power hiking to 997 00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,200 bombing downhills and everything in between. 998 00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:08,520 And so, yeah, your comment there around the metabolic cost, 999 00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:12,640 that's where as Tina mentioned, kind of the plate, it's not a 1000 00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:14,640 full surface coverage through the shoe. 1001 00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:16,640 It is kind of that you around the outside. 1002 00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,320 And so it is, it's kind of almost like guide rails and 1003 00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,080 carbon fiber form of kind of providing some of that support 1004 00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,760 on the outside and adaptability and while not hindering the 1005 00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,880 ability to like go uphill in an economical manner. 1006 00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:34,960 Yeah, so, so many little details thought out just like execute on 1007 00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:38,680 every single, it's called environmental scenario that you 1008 00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:40,160 just need to be your top performance. 1009 00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,120 And then how that then trickles into the rest of the trail line 1010 00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:45,840 is the exciting part. So the rest of the trail line, 1011 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:47,280 we'll see the insights from that as usual. 1012 00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:48,480 Awesome. That'll be very cool. 1013 00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,480 All right, Tina, did you want to keep going with the revel? 1014 00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:53,840 Max. Let's talk revel Max. 1015 00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:57,320 That's sweet. I I do appreciate the shout 1016 00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:01,520 because in our industry they're not talked about enough. 1017 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,960 And if you think about the amount of consumers shopping at 1018 00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:09,680 our shoe chain or our sporting goods stores, you know, it 1019 00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,800 really, it really runs the business of running around the 1020 00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:13,720 world. It really does. 1021 00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:18,280 And so The Rebel is one of our series again that launches in 1022 00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:23,440 the fall, but we are updating it and expanding that into the 1023 00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:28,760 spring with the new Rebel Max. So the insight from the Rebel 1024 00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:33,360 Max was it literally came from this consumer who again shops at 1025 00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,200 shoe chain like a DSW or a rack room. 1026 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:38,880 They were seeing that they wanted the benefit of that 1027 00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:41,960 cushioning, but they essentially wanted it in like a lighter 1028 00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,760 weight package, a little bit lighter on their foot, something 1029 00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,600 that didn't feel as daunting as a glycerin Max love the Glycerin 1030 00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:49,760 Max. There's a consumer there that 1031 00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,240 was a little bit more daunting for this consumer and they might 1032 00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:54,440 be walking more. So again, they want to be feel a 1033 00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:55,920 little bit more stable on their feet. 1034 00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,720 And so we've adjusted and updated the level Max and 1035 00:50:59,720 --> 00:51:01,760 brought that Max experience to that consumer. 1036 00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:06,760 So again, you know, definitely has that Max platform, but 1037 00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,600 you'll see just like a little bit more details on the I stay 1038 00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:13,160 in the path that really leans into someone who kind of wants 1039 00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:17,440 that more wearable performance and Max packings. 1040 00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:21,520 So again, now we have Max in the 200 range, we have Max in the 1041 00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:23,320 120 range. So that will come out in spring 1042 00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:27,800 26, but we're looking at consumers at that shop in every 1043 00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:29,760 different place and want to make sure that we meet them where we 1044 00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,560 where they are so. Yes, it's interesting that we 1045 00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:35,920 still get and and Bach is the brain child behind still talking 1046 00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:38,480 about the affordable shoeless that we try to put out as often 1047 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:40,680 as possible. And again, the rebel is one of 1048 00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,160 those series where, hey, this is just this awesome, tried and 1049 00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,360 true shoe that it's usually worked very, very well for those 1050 00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:48,160 that are either just kind of dipping their feet into running, 1051 00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:49,920 trying to figure out is this something I really, really want 1052 00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:52,360 to commit to? Or those that may be financially 1053 00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,680 that may not have as much flexibility with footwear and 1054 00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:56,960 going, Hey, this is the rebels, a really good option that's 1055 00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,000 durable, handles extremely well, but just a little bit lower 1056 00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,400 price point without sacrificing some of the performance because 1057 00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:03,880 actually it's it's a really, really great shoe. 1058 00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:05,240 So we'll be very excited for that. 1059 00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,600 Anything else? We just talked about a ton, 1060 00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,120 which is absolutely awesome. But is there any other things 1061 00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:14,320 that you all want to share that maybe again, helps the consumers 1062 00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:15,640 going, Hey, this is where we're going. 1063 00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:17,520 This is, you know, again, why we're looking at these times 1064 00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,160 experiences. Anything else you want to add to 1065 00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:24,200 kind of close this out as we finish up this pretty awesome 1066 00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:27,440 conversation? Oh boy, I feel like we talked 1067 00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:28,840 about a lot, Evan. We did, yeah. 1068 00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,480 Anything you want to add? Nothing I can probably legally 1069 00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:34,840 say. How about that? 1070 00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,080 That's awesome. Yeah, I think 2020, I mean, it's 1071 00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,600 a it's another big year for us, Matt, you're saying that 1072 00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:45,040 obviously 25 was a big step, 26 will be another big step. 1073 00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:49,480 But it's, I mean, Carson likes to say stable in motion, but we 1074 00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:51,560 have to work fast and slow at the same time. 1075 00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,400 So again, you'll see, you know, expansion of our, our series. 1076 00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:58,920 But to your point, like we have that GTS consumer that has an 1077 00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:03,080 expectation from us and they want, you know, the adrenaline 1078 00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:06,160 to be the best 1 yet. And our testing confirm that 1079 00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:07,880 they want the BS to be the best 1 yet. 1080 00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:12,200 Our testing confirm that. So even in that that GTS like 1081 00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:15,440 experience that consumers are looking for, we're still like 1082 00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:18,160 having them come along with us making the best ones yet. 1083 00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:19,840 But then we're taking chances other places. 1084 00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:22,120 So we'll continue to keep doing that. 1085 00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,480 But yeah, it's been a pretty fun time at Brooks, I will say. 1086 00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:29,240 Evan, anything from you? Now I think Tina Neil on the 1087 00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:32,600 head, it's no really where we're trying to go is pushing into 1088 00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:36,720 what's that that new for the consumer, while also just 1089 00:53:36,720 --> 00:53:39,880 iteratively updating the other classics in a way that just 1090 00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,920 continue to get better and better while not alienating. 1091 00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:45,160 But we're just delivering in the adrenaline. 1092 00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:48,960 GTS 25 just recently released. It's just a prime example of 1093 00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:51,800 that where, you know, it is it's really pushing us of how do we 1094 00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:55,960 make no softer and bring that through when we know soft is 1095 00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,720 inherently unstable. But you know, it just means 1096 00:53:58,720 --> 00:54:01,240 we're that much more intentional with the geometries around the 1097 00:54:01,240 --> 00:54:04,560 shoe supporting the guide rail system and how do we just bring 1098 00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,200 through this holistic comfort of the upper into the platform and 1099 00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,280 everything. And I mean, yeah, when we were 1100 00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,720 at like Round 2 for that shooting, we got knockout 1101 00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:16,560 results like 100% satisfactions when it came to like cushioning 1102 00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:18,840 in the heel, 4 foot support, flexibility. 1103 00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:21,320 Or it's like, yeah, we're, we're, we're, we're just so 1104 00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:24,880 proud of where we're being able to iteratively evolve those 1105 00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:27,880 mainstays while then also being in brain spaces and really 1106 00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:30,120 thinking forward and pushing forward as well for new things. 1107 00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:33,840 So as Tina said, it's just a it's a fun time for sure. 1108 00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,240 It was a little crazy to hear the adrenaline was moving to a 1109 00:54:36,240 --> 00:54:39,120 10mm drop, although I know we talked about drop as a dynamic 1110 00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:40,960 thing and it's this static, whatever, blah, blah, blah. 1111 00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:42,480 But yeah, that was kind of crazy. 1112 00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:45,200 And it will say that that is the smoothest heel of any adrenaline 1113 00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,680 I think I've ever experience. Again, bevel everything working 1114 00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:50,320 really, really well. So it makes sense that again, 1115 00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:54,160 for your it's really hard and for the for people listening, 1116 00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:57,120 just knowing that like when you're in the development world, 1117 00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,640 to have a series that people have expectations of, to move it 1118 00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:04,760 forwards without alienating like long time consumers is a very, 1119 00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:08,080 very difficult task. And so there's a lot of balance 1120 00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:10,320 that I want to give you all kudos for of like moving the 1121 00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:13,280 shoe forward without totally upsetting people and be like, I 1122 00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:15,000 have to get a new shoe. It's like, OK, how do we like 1123 00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:19,160 ease into that while still progressing is a really, really 1124 00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:21,760 significant challenge that I think is very, very appreciated 1125 00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:23,960 and really awesome. And then I'll keep holding my 1126 00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:27,960 breath for like, I don't know, like like an adrenaline racer or 1127 00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:29,840 something like that. Maybe in the future and I'll 1128 00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,600 keep complaining. Hyperion beast, OK, got it. 1129 00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:34,440 Hyperion beast. That'll be that'll be the one. 1130 00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:36,800 Up here in Elite Beast GTS, there's a. 1131 00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:41,120 Before we we land this plane, there's a a story out there. 1132 00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,200 So I don't know if you to know that I used to work at fit right 1133 00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:45,840 northwest and foot traffic in the northwest and fit right. 1134 00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:49,000 Unfortunately no longer exists, but had a Co worker. 1135 00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:52,920 We would always call back and forth in the addiction and the 1136 00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:55,680 addiction Walker were two of the most common things that we got 1137 00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:59,600 sold back in those days. And occasionally we would mess 1138 00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:03,000 with certain people and would call and make, Hey, I'm looking 1139 00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:05,200 for this shoe and see if they could find it. 1140 00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:07,560 And so we went so far. We actually made an addiction 1141 00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:12,280 racer where we took an ST5 midsole and put it on to no, I'm 1142 00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:16,080 sorry. We took an ST5 upper on on like 1143 00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:19,840 like Google paint or whatever it is and put it on an addiction 1144 00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:24,600 outsole or midsole and sent the photo and even put like the 1145 00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:26,560 bricks logo and everything. So we probably should get sued 1146 00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:29,880 for this, but we sent it to one of our Co workers in the other 1147 00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:33,440 stores going Hey, Fritz, we're looking for this shoe. 1148 00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:36,720 Hey, dude, like we just got a a large shipment and can you go 1149 00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:38,680 find it while we want to special bring it over to one of those 1150 00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:40,760 stores who would send shoes between stores? 1151 00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:43,760 And he's like, there's no such thing as an addiction razor. 1152 00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,600 That's not a thing. So we made it and sent it to him 1153 00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:49,480 with like as part of like and made it look like one of the 1154 00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:54,120 like the product tech sheets. And I think we had taken it from 1155 00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:57,040 we like just modified an addiction tech sheet that was 1156 00:56:57,040 --> 00:56:58,640 sent to us and just put this on there. 1157 00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,520 And so he's looking for it, looking for in it, looking for 1158 00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:03,680 it. And he's like, I, I, I don't see 1159 00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:05,360 it like no, no, I'm pretty sure we had a shipment in there. 1160 00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:07,480 He got really upset and then found out later that we just 1161 00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:11,400 made it up in photoshopped shoe. And so history goes that 1162 00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:14,000 apparently long after I left that she was still getting 1163 00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:15,320 brought. The photo was still getting 1164 00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:18,240 brought up at the local fit right meetings as like a 1165 00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:21,400 potential and just want to put that out there. 1166 00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:24,400 The addiction racer was a concept at one point. 1167 00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:27,040 And so there's that's where my history comes in to. 1168 00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,520 Say it has come through to fruition because my friend and 1169 00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:35,280 I, the Brooks PR Invite employee 4x4 a few years ago did RIP 4 1170 00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,000 hundreds in addiction Walker leather V straps. 1171 00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,680 So we have attempted to use addictions for racing. 1172 00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:44,960 So you were quite ahead of the time and that is a quite the 1173 00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:48,440 compliment I'm giving and I may cease and desist you for that 1174 00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:53,000 idea on a public recorded call. I it was just it was just 1175 00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,040 concept right never to go to market right. 1176 00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:58,960 So that is awesome. That's so cool. 1177 00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:01,760 OK, so for those I'm also really impressed that you did 4 1178 00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:06,040 hundreds in addiction leather Walker, not just one, just one. 1179 00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:09,240 Oh, just one just what portrait that is awesome. 1180 00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,200 So that can be on the that should be on the wall for like 1181 00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:15,040 things that we've like major accomplishments be able to get 1182 00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:17,120 through. But so we're about ready to 1183 00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:19,080 dissolve into the kind of conversations the three of us 1184 00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:21,480 normally have off air. So before we get to that point, 1185 00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:23,200 we really want to thank everybody for listening. 1186 00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,200 And Tina Evan, thank you so much for coming on. 1187 00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:27,600 As always, it is always a blast to have you and thank you for 1188 00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:30,000 sharing some of the really cool things that are coming in 2026. 1189 00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:32,960 Well, we're kind of hinting at what's going to happen in 2027 1190 00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:35,080 and hopefully the three of us and you 2 don't get in trouble 1191 00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:38,200 for sharing anything too much. But as always will, we'll edit 1192 00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:40,080 this as needed to make sure we don't get in trouble. 1193 00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:42,680 But we really appreciate for all of you, there's listening and 1194 00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:44,720 hope this is helpful. The reason we do this is help 1195 00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:47,320 share, educate and help you understand the things you're 1196 00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:49,600 putting on your feet and then helpfully educate you to help 1197 00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:50,760 make better decisions about that. 1198 00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:53,040 Because again, we're not trying to sell you shoes and we're 1199 00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:55,320 really respectful that those that are, but we're just trying 1200 00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:57,600 to help educate you and get you to learn more about your bio 1201 00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:00,560 mechanics and feet. So Brooks is a great place to 1202 00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:01,840 learn this. I always really appreciate you 1203 00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,280 guys website does a really great job of also trying to educate 1204 00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:07,120 people and the few finders also really really, really great tool 1205 00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:11,240 if you want to find either all of us Tina Evan have their own 1206 00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:13,440 social media pages and they're really, really awesome people. 1207 00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:15,760 You can usually find some info on them about about them on the 1208 00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:18,120 bricks website for us. You can find us on a variety of 1209 00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:21,160 different places be at the website that's most common area. 1210 00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:23,320 You are probably listening to this either on one of the many 1211 00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:25,480 different audio channels. You can always find an audio 1212 00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:28,720 version of this on Spotify, iTunes, various channels. 1213 00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:32,040 And then we will also to view a video format of this always on 1214 00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:34,520 YouTube and you can find additional content on there on 1215 00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:37,320 YouTube, on the website, which is the OG place you'll find most 1216 00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:39,840 and a variety of places on social media where you can see 1217 00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:41,520 us talking about some of the things that we're either working 1218 00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:45,280 on or excited and very lucky enough to be able to see and be 1219 00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:47,840 able to test. I hope you 2 have a great day 1220 00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:50,360 and for all the listeners also hope you have a wonderful time 1221 00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:51,920 and we will see you next time.