1 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:13,120 Welcome to the Doctors of Running podcast where we, a 2 00:00:13,120 --> 00:00:15,280 group of doctors of physical therapy, discuss the art and 3 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:17,640 science of running and the stuff that we put on our feet. 4 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,240 My name is Nathan Brown and today I'm just doing an 5 00:00:20,240 --> 00:00:23,120 introduction of a kind of unique episode for us. 6 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,600 If you have been around the shoe geekdom world for a while, you 7 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:28,520 may have heard of something called the running event. 8 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:30,840 What it is, it's a big conference where many of the 9 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,360 major brands from running come together and they showcase what 10 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,600 is coming in the year to come. Sadly for us, with our jobs as 11 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,040 physical therapists and as professors, it's hard for us to 12 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,280 take the time to get down there. So we didn't make it to Tre this 13 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:45,200 year. However, what we tried to do is 14 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,360 set up as many interviews with companies to learn about what's 15 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,720 coming for them in the future and for us to be able to ask 16 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,720 some of the questions that we cared about as they look forward 17 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,520 into what is going to be coming to the market for us to check 18 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:00,480 out and try next year. So what this podcast episode is, 19 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,760 is a collection of three interviews with three of the 20 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,360 companies that we talked to. We were able to talk to Brooks, 21 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,160 Puma, and Sakany. So those interviews are going to 22 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,360 be sequential in this episode for you to be able to listen to. 23 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,640 They'll also be released on our YouTube as individual videos. 24 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:18,400 So there won't be one big podcast episode for this week, 25 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,480 but it will be different videos that are released that you'll be 26 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,440 able to watch if you prefer to do it that way. 27 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,840 The other quick thing that I wanted to talk about before we 28 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,280 jump into these interviews is that we're pretty excited to 29 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,320 find a release our first round of merch for you all. 30 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,200 It's our first time dropping stuff that the public can buy, 31 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,600 some doctors running stuff. So we've got some T-shirts and 32 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,520 we have a hoodie that basically are showcasing some of our 33 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,840 basically it's our logo. And then a couple fun phrases 34 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,440 like got heel bevel because Matt Klein, if you've listened to us 35 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:50,680 at all, you've heard him talk about the importance of heel 36 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,680 bevels and shoes. So we have some fun merchandise 37 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,440 and it's our first iteration of things that you can get. 38 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,320 It's a bunch of casual wear that you can use for lounging around 39 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,840 the house and even some casual running. 40 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,280 So if you want to check that out, the best way to get there 41 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,400 is through our website at doctorsofrunning.com. 42 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,440 Or if you just search in Google or your search engine and just 43 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,000 say Doctors of Running Merch, it's going to give you a link 44 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,120 that's going to help you get to the Spreadshirt shop that has 45 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:16,880 all the merchandise that we're selling. 46 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,800 And finally, before we jump into the episode, we always just want 47 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,440 to thank Scratch for partnering with us and helping make this 48 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,680 podcast happen. So I'm going to send it over to 49 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:26,960 the interviews with these companies and hope you enjoy it. 50 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,800 Hey, everyone, and welcome to the Doctors Running podcast, 51 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,800 where we a group of doctors of physical therapy and discuss the 52 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,240 art and the science of the stuff we're putting on our feet. 53 00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:50,600 I'm Andrea Myers, and today I'm joined by the crew from Saucony 54 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,920 Running so they can tell us about their new releases for 55 00:02:53,920 --> 00:02:57,640 2025 S Again, thank you guys so much for joining me. 56 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,520 Could each of you go around and just tell us your name and your 57 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,120 role at Saucony? Corey, we'll start with you. 58 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:05,040 Yeah. Hi. 59 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:07,440 First of all, thanks for having us on. 60 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,080 I think your listeners might Remember Me and I could be a 61 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,720 good or a bad thing depending on what they were listening to. 62 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,120 But my name is Corey Hoffman. I've been with Sake now for 63 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,680 three years and I'm a senior performance engineer working in 64 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,440 our Human Performance and Innovation laboratory. 65 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,800 And. Luka, Andrea, thank you so much 66 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,160 for inviting me. This is the first time that I've 67 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,080 been on Doctors of Running, and it's a huge honor to be on this 68 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,640 podcast. I know how well regarded it is 69 00:03:34,640 --> 00:03:37,880 among the running community. I'm Luca Ciccone, I'm the 70 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,640 director of product engineering. I've been at Saucony now for a 71 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:43,360 little over 10 years at this point. 72 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,520 I've been in the footwear industry for a little over 20, 73 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,240 working for a few different brands before I came on board. 74 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,960 I get into the intricacies of components as they go into 75 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,800 footwear, foam, technology, innovation, stuff like that. 76 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,640 And we just really want to make sure that we're making shoes for 77 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,120 runners by runners, and everything is engineered to work 78 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:08,520 perfectly within those systems. And last but not least, Ted. 79 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:10,440 Yeah. Thanks, Andrea. 80 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:12,680 Thanks for having us join. We're happy to be here. 81 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,400 I feel like after those two guys, I'm kind of the third 82 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,720 wheel on this party or this date, but I'm Ted Fitzpatrick 83 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:23,720 and I head up our performance product management team. 84 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,080 So work with design, development, testing, 85 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:30,200 engineering throughout the the product life cycle. 86 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,440 So yeah, happy to be here and talk about some of the stuff 87 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:34,960 coming out in 2025. Great. 88 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,440 And thank you 3 so much for joining us. 89 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,840 And Luca, I can't believe you've never been on the pod. 90 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,440 I know Corey, you've been on at least twice, right? 91 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,400 Yeah. And of course, we would love to 92 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,640 have all of you on again because there's lots of stuff we like to 93 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:55,040 nerd out with your guys on. But so 2025, I know that there 94 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,400 are a few shoes of yours that I'm excited about seeing, but 95 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,680 can one of you tell us what you've got coming out? 96 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:03,640 What are you guys most excited about? 97 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:06,880 Yeah. So I think, I mean I can start 98 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,960 it. You mentioned Tre in the 99 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,880 beginning. So Tre for us is always a, a 100 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,360 great chance to get ahead of the autumn, winter season. 101 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,720 Like that's sort of what's getting teased out and what's 102 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,440 being sold in with our wholesale partners. 103 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:26,840 And this season there's three big franchise updates for us, 104 00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:29,080 really building on what we started this year. 105 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:34,880 So on the our Fast and Light, our Speed product is an update 106 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:40,880 to the Endorphin Speed. So it's Endorphin Speed 5, this 107 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,320 one's that. It's that shoe that sort of the 108 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:45,120 task is always like, don't mess it up. 109 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:48,600 Like people have really fallen in love with that shoe. 110 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,480 And, you know, I think through through hard work and some good 111 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,400 fortune, we've made some updates that continue to to move it 112 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,080 forward. So we continue to keep consumers 113 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:00,320 coming back. But it's always a a bit of a 114 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,480 challenge because it, you know, get something that's working 115 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,120 while you don't want to mess it up and upset that runner that's 116 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,200 that's enjoying it. But what we have an update for 117 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:15,080 the Speed 5 and then the other two from our everyday segment 118 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:19,920 are the Triumph 23 and the Hurricane 25 S. 119 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:24,440 Both of those shoes got big updates in 2024 and we're 120 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,240 continuing with some evolution as we get to autumn winter 25. 121 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:32,240 SI think we can talk a little bit about the foam and how we're 122 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,480 sort of, you know, tweaking engineering and sort of refining 123 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,520 that to create an even better experience. 124 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,800 And then, you know, exciting for us this year was the launch of 125 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,960 the Hurricane where we brought that franchise back. 126 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:50,400 But it, it looked really nothing like what it had in the past, 127 00:06:50,840 --> 00:06:53,800 but it was really tying into like what the consumer wanted. 128 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,040 They're looking for Max protection, Max cushion and 129 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:01,520 really honing in on that and building a geometry around that. 130 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,320 And it's, it's been fun to see that shoe come back and get a 131 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:08,280 lot of, you know, excitement and, and adoption from runners 132 00:07:08,280 --> 00:07:09,560 after being away for a few years. 133 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,000 But we think we're reaching more people now with the the geometry 134 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,880 we have and some of the foams. Yeah, definitely the trend this 135 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,760 year and I last year has been every shoe gets the Max 136 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:25,080 treatment and of course some people love that and some people 137 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,480 wish for the original. But maybe we could start with 138 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:32,480 the changes to the Speed 5. So what's different? 139 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,040 Can you maybe show us one? This is going to air in December 140 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,760 if that is helpful for you guys for embargoes. 141 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,000 Yeah. Oh, it's like Corey. 142 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:44,480 You you can go ahead and talk about it. 143 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,960 While I I can model, I can Model 1 if you'd like. 144 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,400 Corey's our model. Perfect the. 145 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,520 Contrast is nice against your shirt too, Corey. 146 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:54,280 Perfect. I planned that. 147 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:56,960 Yeah, good outfit, toys. Yeah. 148 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:01,320 So a few things that remain the same and the the guys, Corey and 149 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,480 Luca can jump in if I'm speaking out of turn, but we'll continue 150 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,960 with the same blend of power run PB that we've been using. 151 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,520 So Cuba based material, two different layers of it. 152 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,360 We continue with the same stack height. 153 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:20,840 So no change to that. What we we did change were 154 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,760 really kind of minor or subtle modifications to improve the 155 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,960 ride or the feel. So one is we're going to a new 156 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,200 sock liner. So we're upgrading to what we 157 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,000 call our SRS sock liner, which you know, really just stands for 158 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,679 super responsive sock liner. And maybe Luca, if you want to 159 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,679 talk a little bit about that. It's interesting because we 160 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,800 never talk about sock liners in our products and I'm always 161 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,200 going through competitor sets and I'm going, wow, they're 162 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:51,560 using a pretty crappy foam here. I always like to say we use the 163 00:08:51,560 --> 00:08:54,000 best sock liners in the industry. 164 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,760 And when Todd, when Ted talks about SRS, this is a 165 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,320 thermoplastic elastomer, which is super critically molded to 166 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,560 get just closer to your foot. And it just helps the entire 167 00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:08,440 structure of making sure we're making the Speed 5 feel great 168 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,520 for everybody that's latched on to that particular franchise 169 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,600 model and also invited a new consumer that wants a little bit 170 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,560 more plush or a little bit more snappiness that thermoplastic 171 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:20,920 supercritically molded foams can provide. 172 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:25,600 The, the balancing act with the Speed 52 is there's a big, 173 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,440 there's a, there's a geometric aspect of it, but there's also 174 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,680 the, the foaming aspect of it as well. 175 00:09:31,680 --> 00:09:34,920 And depending on how you play with that geometry, you can get 176 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,200 different types of sensations out of these shoes. 177 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,960 And I feel like even though it didn't look like a huge update 178 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,480 and it'll feel the same to people that are used to that 179 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,560 Speed 5, there were small nuancey things that we did do to 180 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:48,200 side walls and plates, very subtle. 181 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,600 We're talking only a couple percent, but it makes a big 182 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:52,600 difference in how that shoe is perceived. 183 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,600 So it's interesting you talk about sock liners. 184 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,800 I tell the story basically anytime anyone talks about sock 185 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:01,440 liners and it has to do with cycling. 186 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,280 Got same pair of cycling shoes. One's the road version, 1's the 187 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,160 mountain version. Got the mountain version second. 188 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:10,840 Took it for a ride. I was like, what's wrong with 189 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,400 the shoe? It feels bouncy and cycling 190 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,200 shoes, as you know, aren't supposed to feel bouncy. 191 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,240 I got back from my ride and I'm like, what is the deal? 192 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,400 And I took the sock liner out of the mountain one and took the 193 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,320 road one out and put it in the road 1. 194 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:29,000 And it felt like my usual shoe. And the difference was the sock 195 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,600 liner in the mountain shoe was just a little bit thicker and a 196 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,760 little bit squishier. That's all. 197 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,280 You know, we're talking about the stiffest of the stiff carbon 198 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,880 sold cycling shoes. And a tiny little sock liner 199 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,160 made a huge difference in my perception of those shoes. 200 00:10:44,680 --> 00:10:48,080 So when it comes to a running shoe, makes an even bigger 201 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,120 difference. So how did you guys land on that 202 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,920 material, that shape for the Speed 5 and how is it going to 203 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,000 make it feel different than the speed 4? 204 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,960 Yeah, the the answer is testing, testing, testing. 205 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:08,280 It's actually this this SRS the sock liner was was introduced 206 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:14,840 for the speed four and it's getting as many feet in the 207 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:19,280 shoes as early as possible in the design process. 208 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:26,560 And that's starting essentially on day one when we're getting 209 00:11:26,560 --> 00:11:32,680 the first prototypes in because the sock liner wallet has a big 210 00:11:32,680 --> 00:11:34,800 influence on the field. You know that Luca just 211 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,480 mentioned it also has a pretty big influence on fit. 212 00:11:38,680 --> 00:11:45,160 And that initial try on is, is really important because if it 213 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:47,480 doesn't feel great right out-of-the-box, then we're in 214 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:49,200 trouble. Even if it feels great and it 215 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,040 lasts 1000 miles and it's very responsive and very cushioned, 216 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,000 if it doesn't check that box right, right out of the gate, 217 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:04,160 then then we have a big problem. So we test it frequently and we 218 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:05,480 test it all throughout the process. 219 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,280 But it's not purely in terms of performance, it's also in terms 220 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:09,720 of fit. Interesting. 221 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,760 And then you mentioned that you made some small changes with the 222 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,400 sidewalls in the five. What is different compared to 223 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,120 the four? More sidewall, less slightly 224 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,760 different location. You'll notice a couple of 225 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:23,480 things. Let's take a look at the bottom. 226 00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:25,560 Can you turn that up to the bottom there, Corey? 227 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,840 There's some longitudinal grooves here that you can see 228 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,680 here that were revised from the previous model just to give it a 229 00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:34,720 slight more bit more articulation in the forefoot 230 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:36,640 through that speed roll technology. 231 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,880 And also to just making sure that those small things just 232 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,920 help with a little bit more of a natural sensation as far as when 233 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:44,840 you going through your gait cycle. 234 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:49,200 The other thing to consider too is on the side wall where we, 235 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:53,280 you'll notice that the the medial wing is not exposed on 236 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:57,840 the medial side quarry. You'll notice that the medial 237 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,640 wing is only exposed on that side where on the lateral side, 238 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,960 we decided to not extend the wing out nearly to the to the 239 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,920 sidewall surface that was there. That was just to make sure that 240 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,760 we can add a little bit more flexibility, more compliance in 241 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:16,040 that midfoot for strikethrough. But for the most part, that's 242 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:17,960 what we covered from a geometrical standpoint, from a 243 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,440 holistic standpoint. And then one, one other change 244 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:25,640 in that bottom view you can kind of see on on the screen is the, 245 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,640 the nylon plate we're using is the same, you know, same shape, 246 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,560 same material, but you can see in that cutaway in the midfoot, 247 00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:37,680 there's some ribs or ridging. So just adding a little bit more 248 00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:42,400 rigidity through the midfoot so that we make sure we get to a 249 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,520 nice kind of fast speed roll propulsive toe off. 250 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:49,800 So again, it's very subtle. It's it's not like a a big aha, 251 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,240 but it goes to that, that overall philosophy of continuing 252 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,960 to kind of engineer and improve, whether it's the sock line or 253 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,760 the plate, some of the geometry and the side wall. 254 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:03,120 And then I think the the last thing is just the, the visual or 255 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,880 optic of the shoe. We, it's always finding a, a 256 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:10,120 balance between being, you know, racy and fast and being kind of 257 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,640 too pedestrian looking. And we want to make sure that 258 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,040 the speed stays true to what it's built for. 259 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:21,880 So we've got a nice lightweight, lightweight engineered mesh that 260 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,520 that reads kind of light, fast, breathable, but there's also 261 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,840 some creature comforts built in, you know, with a little bit 262 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,240 more, you know, substantial heel counter than what you'd find in 263 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:37,360 the Endorphin Elite or the Pro, A little bit more collar foam, 264 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,800 but not as much as you get in a triumph for a hurricane. 265 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,320 So it's finding that like just right balance but leaning in on 266 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:47,280 on the speed attributes. So for those who really love the 267 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:51,600 speed 4, how is the five going to feel or run differently? 268 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:57,840 It should feel very familiar. I think the design of it and 269 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,960 what we've engineered into it is going to create a little bit 270 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,720 faster transition and a little bit better feel kind of it it 271 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,360 step in and throughout just with some of those changes. 272 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,880 But it's it's meant to keep that consumer in it, but making sure 273 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,960 it it still delivers on that speed aspect. 274 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,200 Great. Well, I'm excited to test it 275 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,400 out. So moving on to the Triumph. 276 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,680 So the Triumph got a big update this year. 277 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:29,240 Higher stack, different foam. So what is in store for 2025? 278 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,040 Yeah. I think that the simple thing is 279 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:36,000 more triumph. So we're we're going to continue 280 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,800 with that sort of premium everyday neutral cushion. 281 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,880 We look at it more is like that neutral meaning more of that 282 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,240 hourglass shape on the bottom. So a little bit more familiar in 283 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,680 terms of the look as well as the ride or transition. 284 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:55,400 So we want to continue that. We did bring the base out a 285 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,520 little bit. So not not a lot, but we want to 286 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,160 make sure that we had enough meat and could put as much 287 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,600 cushion under foot as possible. So the widths come out just 288 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,240 slightly from where we were in the past. 289 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:13,400 The center lines the same. And then in terms of the visual 290 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:17,280 or the geometry, we want to make sure it plays into that, that 291 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,560 that idea of being kind of soft and cushioned. 292 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,920 So the sidewall profile as a little bit softer, cushier feel. 293 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:28,080 And then really trying to dial in the upper, you know, that was 294 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:29,800 an area we thought we can improve upon. 295 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:35,240 So going to a soft engineered knit material that really kind 296 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:39,320 of hugs and adapts and contours to the foot is something we 297 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:41,880 think we'll we'll take it to that next level. 298 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:46,080 And Corey, do you have one to model for our viewers? 299 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:48,200 Yeah, I think so. Awesome. 300 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,760 While he's getting it, can you tell us any changes in weight 301 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:56,000 stack height drop? I'm assuming the drop staying 302 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,320 the same but stack height higher than this year. 303 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,480 Yeah. So the the stack is the same and 304 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,400 the drop is the same. So we'll stay at that 10mm drop 305 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:10,800 here. You can see in that bottom view 306 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:13,960 the the geometry. I think through the midfoot and 307 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,760 heel, we brought it out just slightly, but it's still curved, 308 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,119 it's still hourglass throughout, but we wanted to make sure that 309 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:25,400 we had enough points of contact, enough foam under foot, and then 310 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,120 obviously a good bit of rubber. The outsole geometry changes 311 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:34,000 slightly where we've got lugs that are, you know, designed to 312 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,000 promote flexibility. So sort of going from from 313 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,200 medial to lateral across the ball of the foot. 314 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,080 It's probably worth mentioning, Andrea, just real quick to jump 315 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:48,280 in. It's a specially tuned missile. 316 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,680 So it's power run PB, but it's not the exact same blend of 317 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,320 power run PB that you would find in the speed five that we were 318 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,280 just talking about. That's tuned a little bit better 319 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,400 for everyday comfort and everyday mileage. 320 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,160 And we're talking about that more and more, not just with 321 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,840 Saucony, but with other brands, this concept of tuning a film 322 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,040 for its purpose. So I know that you probably 323 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,640 can't talk talk a lot about your development methods, but can you 324 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:17,800 tell our viewers anything you can about exactly how you tune 325 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:22,600 power run PB differently for say the triumph as compared to the 326 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,800 speed or the pro? That's that's dangerous. 327 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:27,360 I don't know how much I can give away there. 328 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:32,400 Let me see if I can do this under under the table in a way, 329 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:32,600 yeah. Why? 330 00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:35,680 Don't you start, we look. At we, we, we look at specific 331 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:39,280 properties of foams. By the way, I'm looking at foam 332 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:41,320 all the time. I can't believe how many foam 333 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,920 compounds cross our desk and we're going, this is interesting 334 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,280 or we might reach back out to some of our supply chain and 335 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,880 look at other aspects of it. But we really look for specific 336 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:56,680 properties in those foams before we decide putting them into a 337 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,800 specific franchise model. Ted and Corey were just talking 338 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,960 about the geometric aspects of the changes that was to help 339 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:07,080 accommodate the newer foam compound that we tuned on power 340 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,680 and PB for it to work optimally on the Triumph 23 when compared 341 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,080 to the 22. And it's one of these things 342 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:18,800 where foams are exciting these days, the amount of compounds 343 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,240 that we have access to that are being developed. 344 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,160 It's it, it's I'm a kid in a candy store. 345 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,120 I'm, I, I, every time we test a foam out, whether it's 346 00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:29,400 mechanically or through human performance or through our 347 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:33,760 athletes, I'm going, wow, we just have another, we have 348 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:37,600 another one of those things to put some in to, to shove into 349 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,360 something else, right. And I, like I said, it's one of 350 00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:43,760 these things where it turns into a, an exciting conversation 351 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:45,640 about the future of running shoes in general. 352 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,200 As you were saying, these are very adaptive products where you 353 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,040 can make something that can, you can run in every day for 354 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,560 somebody who's a tried and true every day runner. 355 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,040 And then you have something for somebody who might not be a 356 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,840 runner that's looking for general comfort, long lasting, 357 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,680 premium cushion comfort. It works for them as well. 358 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:07,160 That is a great. Great answer and I'm sure that 359 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,480 your sensors will be OK with everything you said. 360 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:15,080 Well, they're going to have to be, yeah. 361 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,240 I feel like in, in my role or my department, we've, you know, 362 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,920 we're always asking for things that are difficult to achieve. 363 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,160 I've been in the industry a long time and we're always asking 364 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,360 back in the day for softer durometers or new foams or 365 00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:33,240 whatever it was and things moved a lot slower. 366 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,840 There wasn't as much movement. And now I think to Lucas point, 367 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,520 things have moved pretty fast and we're trying to find like, 368 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,080 are there things that we can test and prove out that are 369 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:44,680 going to deliver a better experience? 370 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:49,520 So if I'm coming to to Luca and his team 18 months ago and 371 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,560 saying, hey, is there a way to make this a little bit lighter 372 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,160 or a little bit softer because we want to create a certain 373 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,960 sensation or feel like he said, there's things come across his 374 00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:02,080 desk, he's getting with Corey. They're testing it. 375 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:07,000 They don't always pan out, but we're able to adapt and tune or 376 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,480 tailor the foams in the experience much closer to what 377 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,880 the consumer is is looking for. And we know on a shoe like the 378 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:18,320 ride or when we talk about the hurricane next, there's more 379 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,960 consumers than than not that are coming to it for everyday 380 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,920 comfort, for everyday use, for easy runs, for long mileage, 381 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,560 whatever it might be. And we're able to kind of tap 382 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:33,400 into that the the same way on other other foams, like on an 383 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,680 extreme like the the next version of the Endorphin Elite 2 384 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,360 coming out next spring and how we have like a brand new foam 385 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,400 that's going to change the game because of other properties 386 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,520 designed for like pure performance needs of someone 387 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,400 running a race or a marathon. So it's it's certainly a a fun 388 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,280 time. Absolutely. 389 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,080 I'm glad you brought up the the Elite 2. 390 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,640 Is that something you guys can talk about today or is that 391 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,480 something for next year? Yeah, I think we can talk about 392 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:10,760 it a little bit right now. So the Elite 2, Matt and David 393 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,560 and I got to test it out last December when we visited you 394 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,240 guys. And of course, we were sworn to 395 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,040 secrecy and we were pretty excited about its release. 396 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:25,160 So can you tell our listeners just the major differences in 397 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,720 the foam, the geometry? Because it's a, it's a different 398 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,360 shoe than the one and it's pretty exciting in my opinion. 399 00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:35,960 So whoever wants to take the question first, I'm sure you all 400 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:37,800 have great stuff to say about it. 401 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,520 Corey, Corey, you go first. I know we're, I think we're, 402 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,680 we're under embargo till right around or just after Tre. 403 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:51,680 So we probably can't say too, too much, but it's certainly a, 404 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:56,400 you know, a big update with a new foam that we we think is 405 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,920 going to help change the narrative, certainly for us for 406 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,560 speed shoes, race shoes, but also for the for the industry 407 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,600 and broader implications for the rest of the range in time. 408 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,040 Because I think for everything we're trying to do similar to 409 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,520 what we did with some of the original endorphins and bringing 410 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:19,760 in the Apiba based foam is, you know, that's great for people 411 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,560 that are training for racing and buying it for a marathon. 412 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,480 But how do we create an experience like we're doing with 413 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:30,120 Triumph and Hurricane to bring APB foam to everyone so it's not 414 00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:34,520 just, you know, for premium priced carbon plated racing 415 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,240 shoes. So in spring 25, the Elite 2 416 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,480 gets a new foam and we'll start looking at like what are the 417 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,280 implications for that down the road for the rest of the range? 418 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:50,040 Yeah. So to, to maybe peel back a 419 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:55,240 little bit more about the foam, What, what makes it so magical 420 00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:01,760 amongst many things, I think is the unique combination of 421 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:08,080 compliance and resilience. So if you think in terms of the 422 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,360 amount of energy that a components, you know, whether 423 00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:15,360 that be a an actual entire shoe or just the foam itself, the 424 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:20,000 amount of energy that the material can absorb is a 425 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,200 function of how much force you apply to it. 426 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:27,080 And then how much the material displaces and the time over 427 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,080 which it takes to, you know, displace that. 428 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:35,280 And what makes this shoe so ridiculous, you know, for lack 429 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:40,280 of better term, is that not only is it extremely compliant in 430 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,680 that it can absorb a significant amount of energy for a given 431 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,800 amount of force, but it returns an outrageously high percentage 432 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,760 of that. So when we when we think about 433 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:56,040 how resilient or how springy or poppy a shoe feels usually, and 434 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,760 we're guilty of this, we report just a number, right? 435 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:03,160 It's 91%, it's 94%, it's 95%, it's 95 plus percent. 436 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:11,480 But if you dive one layer deeper to that, that 95% could be it 437 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:17,560 absorbed 100 and returned to 95 or it absorbed 200 and returned, 438 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:23,480 you know, whatever 190. So it's not just how efficient 439 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,920 it is, but how it can absorb an outrageously high amount of 440 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,960 energy and return an outrageously high amount of 441 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,680 energy. And we're we're seeing some data 442 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,720 in the lab that's really eye popping in terms of not just 443 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:44,440 mechanically how the phone behaves, but also how increased 444 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,080 efficiency, the the increased metabolic efficiency we see in 445 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,240 runners running at a variety of paces in this product. 446 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,200 It's. Very exciting, can't wait for 447 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,200 the spring. Luca, do you have anything to 448 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,080 add? I'm going to just reinforce what 449 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:05,000 I was saying the the amount of foams and technology that we 450 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,800 have at our disposal these days, it wouldn't have been possible 451 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,440 without super critical foaming. That's, that's the that's been 452 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,280 the magic code to crack as far as exposing far more 453 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,960 thermoplastics out there that we can foam and find these amount 454 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,120 of foams out there that can just work out very well to give you a 455 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:26,200 very different experience when building a type of running shoe 456 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,480 product. I've been running in the Elite 2 457 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,000 for the past six months and every time I put it on, I get 458 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,920 excited. And there's a few other products 459 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,640 that are in the lineup for next year that I've been running in 460 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,440 that I'm just going. I can't wait for other people to 461 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,240 get their feet on this because they're going to be pumped about 462 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,200 it. And I always feel like as a 463 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,240 product team ourselves, we're always looking to impress 464 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,520 ourselves. And whenever we have something 465 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,240 exciting like this, it's we just want to tell the whole world 466 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,360 about it. And like I said, I can't wait 467 00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:56,880 for that embargo to lift and we can talk about it. 468 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,120 Yes, that will be awesome. All right, so let's move on to 469 00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:03,200 the hurricane. So like you mentioned, the 470 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,440 hurricane was a reintroduction this year. 471 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,280 So what's changing for next year? 472 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,360 I'm guessing maybe a higher stack height or just a little 473 00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:18,520 different foam? Yeah, the this season I think 474 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:23,320 it's a consistent theme with with Speed and Triumph and now 475 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:30,160 Hurricane of of evolution the stack heights the same we do, 476 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,160 you know, it's still the same setup where it's two layers of 477 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,760 foam. So we've got our blended power 478 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:41,520 run material like an Eva blend that serves as a A-frame and 479 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,920 then nested inside it is like a full midsole of power run PB. 480 00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:49,720 And that same tuning of the power run PB that we applied to 481 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:54,960 the Triumph gets applied here to the, to the Hurricane 25 S. 482 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:59,440 You know, in my, my world, it's a little softer, it's a little 483 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,920 bit lighter, but without compromising the feel and the 484 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,360 responsiveness and, and the things that people have liked 485 00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:11,520 about the Hurricane. And then in terms of other key 486 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,400 details, it's, it's really honing in on that, that comfort 487 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:20,440 in the upper throughout. So we didn't want to, we don't 488 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,080 want to change too far too much. We did make some subtle 489 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,800 adjustments. The template does shift, you 490 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,800 know, a couple millimeters. So we put a little bit more foam 491 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,280 on the medial side just to make sure if there are some runners 492 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,240 that that come in quickly or need a little bit more 493 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,800 protection. We've got that foam engineered 494 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,080 there. But if you like the 24, you're 495 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,440 going to love the 25. It's not a significant 496 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:45,960 departure. That's great. 497 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,640 You. I feel like you guys are doing a 498 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,280 nice job with what we call stable neutral features here at 499 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,040 Dor. Does the Hurricane get any of 500 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,960 the same features that the Guide 17 had this year? 501 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,360 Yeah, I think the the philosophy that is the same of, you know, 502 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:10,040 we talk about center path, can we design A geometry and a 503 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,920 platform that's going to keep the foot centered from, you 504 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,240 know, heel stride through midfoot to toe off. 505 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,640 So that I think the philosophy is the same for both. 506 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,920 It's that that wider base with higher side walls, the actual 507 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:28,600 center lines aren't like a super high or super tall stack. 508 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:33,120 The Max is more the Max protection and the Max cushion 509 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,840 versus just saying Max height. So we don't want to create 510 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,520 instability by making something really tall and really narrow. 511 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,720 So it's about that platform. So similar geometry to guide, 512 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,760 it's just the footprints a little bit bigger. 513 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,920 You get that frame that that holds it in. 514 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,840 So we can really harness that, that tuned PB. 515 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,920 So you can get the feel of a triumph, the feel of that super 516 00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,800 foam with the the frame. It's going to make sure you're 517 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:04,560 getting some of that protection. And we've just seen the, there's 518 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:09,480 always sort of that difference between like the what the 519 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,160 industry talks about and what we talked about and what the 520 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,000 consumer talks about. So we've continued to hear the 521 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,440 last few years this idea of like Max comfort and Max protection. 522 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,600 So we've honed in on that. It's certainly something that's 523 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,600 that's risen up in the last year or two. 524 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:30,240 So we'll we'll continue in that, that space, but it is very 525 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,880 comfortable. Andrea, I was going to mention 526 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,560 kind of elaborating a little bit more on center path technology. 527 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:42,280 If you were to see how deep that upper since into that sole unit 528 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:46,120 or into the power run PB itself, it just cradles your foot. 529 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,680 And the one thing, Corey, if you can, you pull up the shoe one 530 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,480 more time. If you look at the bottom view 531 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,520 of the sky, you can see you can see how there's that white 532 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,400 section in the middle that's power run PB being exposed from 533 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,680 the bottom and being able to build that system of the power 534 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,480 run chassis. So that way you have a full 535 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,200 gamut of power and PB that's going from the top of your foot 536 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,200 all the way down to the ground. That just provides a nice 537 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,040 cradling sensation to keep you concentric to the platform. 538 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,880 That was something that we learned much about on the 539 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,240 Hurricane 24. We went through many, many 540 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,480 iterations of looking at geometry, looking at foam. 541 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,920 I call that the COVID project because that's when we're all 542 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,400 working out of our houses. And I was physically bringing 543 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,400 samples home to my workshop and taking a grinder and grinding 544 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,920 away at physical samples, figuring out like, should we, 545 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,040 should we inset this, should we add here? 546 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,680 Kind of things like that. And we got a lot of learnings 547 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,440 from it and we applied it to the 25. 548 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,000 And to Ted's point, it was a matter of just playing around 549 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,880 with the that Eva chassis, that power and chassis to make sure 550 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,520 that we're building out slightly more to the medial side if 551 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,960 someone needs a slightly slower rate of pronation to that area. 552 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,120 But overall, it's a great platform. 553 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:57,680 It's a shoe that I wear every day too. 554 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,480 Yeah, just looking at the underside of that shoe, it looks 555 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,560 like your foot sits in it, not on top of it. 556 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,880 Yeah, awesome. Well, thank you guys so much for 557 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,400 coming on. I know we took a little bit 558 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,480 longer than we said, but it's hard to, you know, contain our 559 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,560 excitement when we get to talk about new shoes. 560 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,920 Is there anything else you think our listeners should know about 561 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,360 your upcoming releases or anything else you want to 562 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,600 mention? I, I, I think we covered a lot. 563 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,680 It's, it's always fun talking to to you and the team. 564 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,560 And thank, thank you very much for for having us. 565 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,960 Thank you guys. So once again, we had Corey, 566 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:41,320 Luca and Ted from Saucony look out for their new products this 567 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,840 winter and next year. And as always, thanks for 568 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:58,720 listening. Hi everyone. 569 00:32:58,720 --> 00:32:59,920 It's David from Doctors of Running. 570 00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:02,240 And today we have the wonderful Tina Danforth from Brooks 571 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:06,040 Running to join us to talk about the 2025 shoes coming up. 572 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,000 Tina was nice enough to come on and talk about everything for 573 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,760 Brooks coming up for the next year, things that she's excited 574 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,600 about and all of that. So, but before we get going, I 575 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,920 do want you guys to get to know Tina a little bit. 576 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,080 And yeah, it's, you know, what do you do for Brooks and yeah, 577 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:23,840 what's your role? Yeah, for sure. 578 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,200 Thank you for having us on. You will be missed at Tre, but 579 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,040 I, I do appreciate the time that we do get to spend. 580 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,400 So I've been in the industry for about 20 years and you know, a 581 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,000 variety of roles, but started and run specialty. 582 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,760 I did a little stint in sales and now I've been in product for 583 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,320 about 6 years. So as far as my role at Brooks, 584 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,680 I pretty much manage our PLM team that works on performance 585 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:53,400 footwear, so Hyperion Elite and then works on responsive cushion 586 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:54,920 footwear. So all the rest of Hyperion, 587 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,480 Hyperion Max and Hyperion. And then I work with our PLM who 588 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,520 does trail as well. So Yep, there we go. 589 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,000 One of the first shoes I worked on. 590 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:06,760 Yep, those two bad boys right there. 591 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,920 Actually, it was a, it was a lot of us, it was a big team that 592 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,199 worked on that project because we had people start it and then 593 00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:16,480 some people went on maternity leave and then others had to 594 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,400 jump in. It was actually like one of the 595 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,960 most collaborative projects that we did. 596 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,159 So the fact that it came out like as successful and clean as 597 00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:26,440 it did, it's, it's kind of wild when you think about it. 598 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:30,360 So, so yeah, that's what I work on, but I work really closely 599 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:34,120 again with like our PLMS who do trail and responsive cushion and 600 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,960 performance cushion and you know, grateful, grateful to be 601 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:38,280 at Brooks working on that product. 602 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,679 Yeah, that's awesome. And that that leads me into my 603 00:34:40,679 --> 00:34:42,800 next question, because you're talking about responsive 604 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,600 cushioning and all of these things. 605 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,560 And that's what we geek out about, you know, obviously. 606 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,639 And is there anything like coming down the pipeline over 607 00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:54,320 the next year, whether it's technologies, phones, 608 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,520 properties, uppers, anything that you are particularly 609 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,840 excited about or anything that may debut that we haven't seen 610 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:02,320 from Brooks? Yeah. 611 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,160 So absolutely 100%. I think the cool spot of where 612 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,520 we're at right now is we are growing so quickly and evolving 613 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,920 very quickly as a brand. And so we're trying to push out 614 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,280 technologies like a little bit faster than then we have kind 615 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,000 of, you know, post COVID era. So, so I want to start off with 616 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,080 actually a shout out of Glycerin 22. 617 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:26,440 So if you've seen Glycerin Max, I know you guys have have tested 618 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,080 that shoe. There's a wild one there. 619 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,720 It is. So that was the launch of our 620 00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:34,720 innovation DNA Tune. So it's basically, you know, a 621 00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:37,440 combination of small cell phones and large cell phones. 622 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,560 And that's really hard to do because obviously when you put 623 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,440 it through the Super critical foaming process, you know, it's 624 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,280 more stable when you just kind of use one type of cell. 625 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,680 And so it was really like an interesting project, a fun 626 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,000 project for the team to have this like kind of large cell 627 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,080 foam that we see in in products like the glycerin and the Ghost 628 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,240 and then small cell that we sometimes see in products like 629 00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:01,720 Hyperions and Hyperions two. That's kind of our responsive 630 00:36:01,720 --> 00:36:03,360 property. So we're trying to give you the 631 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,880 best of both worlds in one innovation and Glycerin Max has 632 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,040 that. But if you don't want it 633 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,920 obviously at a bigger stack height, then Glycerin 2 is like 634 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:15,560 your go to for the next like DNA innovation, but in kind of an 635 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,720 everyday training shoe. So, so that's the first one I'm 636 00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:20,560 excited about. And there there's more to it. 637 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,360 So I can, I can pause if you have questions there or we can 638 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,880 keep going because you know me, I could, I could talk about it 639 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:27,640 all day. I know we could. 640 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:29,120 We could go all day on this stuff. 641 00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:33,880 So the DNA tuned that we saw in the glycerin Max well. 642 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,680 So that will be in the glycerin, the new glycerin model coming 643 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:38,680 up. That's correct. 644 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,800 Yep. And so that will be January of 645 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,600 2025. Okay, because I know you guys 646 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,080 have been using DNA Loft for a little while. 647 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,800 Is that going to be going away? Is that transitioning to other 648 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:54,800 shoes or where does DNA Tuned come in with DNA loft? 649 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:56,320 Yeah. So that's a good question. 650 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,200 So Loft, I mean it's still one of our our softest foam. 651 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,680 So we still want to continue to like evolve and and accelerate 652 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,240 that. So DNA tuned is, is really a 653 00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:07,640 special foam that we're using for kind of our high end 654 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,600 product. So Glycerin, Glycerin Max is 655 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:15,600 really like expanding what a luxurious experience is in that, 656 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:17,600 in that glycerin super franchise. 657 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,440 But you'll see Loft evolve in the ghost, which is very 658 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:22,960 important because that's our perfect blend. 659 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,200 Again, it has to be everything for everyone. 660 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,720 And so we need Loft to be able to do that for us. 661 00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:31,760 So both super critical products, but then obviously just kind of 662 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:33,520 done in a different way. OK, nice. 663 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,520 And then when we look, because the feeling of both of those 664 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,440 foams are very different at least on my feet and some of 665 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,240 that probably is some of the small versus large cell and how 666 00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:47,240 it's, you know, created. But from a property standpoint 667 00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:51,400 in the foams, if you're allowed to tell us, is it primarily like 668 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,080 is it an EVATPU blend, is it a PIBA based blend in the Glycerin 669 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,680 Max because it's a very soft and bouncy foam? 670 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,000 Yeah, for what you are allowed to talk about with us. 671 00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:04,760 Yeah. So, so it is Eva. 672 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,960 But again, it goes through a super critical process. 673 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,360 But because we're using the large cell and small cell, it 674 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,640 goes through kind of an extra process that we don't just do 675 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:17,320 with like a flash or like a loft. 676 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,960 So like in order to kind of get it at the right spec, it is 677 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:22,920 really hard to kind of combine those two. 678 00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:27,160 So yeah, so outside of just like really a complicated process, 679 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,840 like with our super critical process and the autoclave, yeah, 680 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,320 there's I guess not more I could elaborate to, but it basically 681 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,440 makes it a unique experience that once we kind of got the 682 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,200 recipe right, we were like, wow, this there's something here and 683 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,080 it gives us a feeling unlike any of the phones that we've used 684 00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,000 before. Yeah, because it surely is a 685 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,320 unique experience. Yeah, I had some fun with it. 686 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:54,680 I my, my foot didn't fully agree with them, but I think it's just 687 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,000 such a unique experience and that's partially part of it. 688 00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,040 If you gave me a month or two it might have been fine. 689 00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:02,000 And I think the good thing, I mean it's, it's taken like if 690 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,840 you think about Carson, our SVP, like he he's had some injuries 691 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,600 and he hasn't been able to run and this product has made him 692 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,320 able to run again. And and you look at someone like 693 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,720 me, I just, I've always prefer like preferred like more like 694 00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:17,400 Hyperions and like responsive cushion type products. 695 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,680 So to me, when I tried it on, my first experience with it was 696 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:22,880 like, wow, there's nothing. I felt like this. 697 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,320 And it's something you have to try on and experience. 698 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,760 But then at the end of the day, sometimes you go back to just 699 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,520 like what you're used to and you know what is the most 700 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,600 comfortable to you. So I'm with you there. 701 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:35,720 Yeah. And I mean, and that's a, that's 702 00:39:35,720 --> 00:39:38,960 a perfect segue to the next thing because we haven't talked 703 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:40,480 about the performance line too much. 704 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,000 So yeah, talking about DNA flash and kind of like some of the 705 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,200 stuff that we can look forward to in 2025 as well. 706 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,520 Yeah. So yeah, the, the shoe I 707 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,040 definitely want to call out there is, I mean, I could talk 708 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,160 about Hyperions all day for fall 25, but I definitely want to 709 00:39:56,160 --> 00:40:01,480 signal Hyperion Elite 5 because we will have a new super 710 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:06,840 critical foam that is. Basically more responsive, 711 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,640 lighter, higher displacement than any foam we've had in a 712 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,280 racing product before. And I think the cool thing about 713 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,720 what we've done with that shoe is we've kind of allowed the 714 00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:19,320 geometries to speak for themselves. 715 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,520 So we're like Hyperion Elite 4. Like you'll see like pretty, 716 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,320 pretty tame geometries at the end of the day. 717 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,000 Like we want the the foam and the the plate to do the work. 718 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,840 You're going to see a little bit a little bit more crazy for 719 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,240 Hyperion Elite 5. But the one thing like the team 720 00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:37,960 was challenged with is like, look, we have world athletic 721 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:39,680 standards. So again, we have limitations. 722 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,560 We have to work in a box, of course, but we wanted to 723 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,360 basically get more foam into that shoe, but make it lighter 724 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,240 weight. And that team was able to 725 00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:49,720 achieve both of those things and Hyperion Elite 5. 726 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:54,240 So like what you think of the Hyperion range before that goes 727 00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:56,440 out the window. Hyperion Elite 5 is is a new 728 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,600 day. If you saw Dez for Chicago, she 729 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,040 was wearing it. So that is that is a good little 730 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,280 preview of of what that shoes going to look like. 731 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,880 And honestly from all the racing product that we've ever tried, 732 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,040 it is the most natural feeling that we have. 733 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,480 So it just like works with your stride and your gait, but the 734 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,000 foam gives you an advantage, the plate gives you an advantage, 735 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:23,160 everything that you want from a race day shoe, but it really has 736 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:27,560 this like really natural feeling to it, which is pretty is pretty 737 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:29,200 different for a race day product, so. 738 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:31,360 I'm excited for that one. That sounds awesome. 739 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,920 Yeah. Yeah, there are plenty of images 740 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,000 out there. So it's it's not, it's not hard 741 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:37,440 to find. Yeah, Yeah. 742 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:39,720 Well, good. And then you guys had so much 743 00:41:39,720 --> 00:41:42,200 success this year with the Hyperion Max 2. 744 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,600 I feel like is there any evolution of the Hyperion Max 745 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,120 line going into 2025 or are you guys going to give that a year 746 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:54,160 and then update again in 26 is or is there anything on the 747 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,720 horizon there? Yeah, We wanted to keep a pretty 748 00:41:56,720 --> 00:41:59,320 rapid evolution with with that product as well. 749 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,640 I mean Hyperion Max 2 like within a month sold out in 750 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,160 Europe. Like it, it definitely, it 751 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,800 definitely did well for us and obviously we had a good thing 752 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,160 going. But we know just like the 753 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,680 cadence of change for that product, it has to move as 754 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,680 quickly as possible. So if you think of where 755 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,840 Hyperion is and where Hyperion Elite is it, it kind of sits 756 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,480 right in the middle. So as far as like cadence of 757 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:26,640 change, when we talk about like wild geometries, when we talk 758 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,360 about super foams, that will, that will be happening in 759 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,960 Hyperion Max as well. So once Tre hits, we'll probably 760 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:35,800 start seeing some more previews, of course. 761 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:38,880 And then maybe after this call, I'll show you, I'll show you a 762 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,280 few pictures or maybe some samples. 763 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,360 But again, we want to make sure that that kind of train to race 764 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,560 category is really advantageous for us. 765 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,880 And so we have to keep any super foam that we have going, any 766 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,720 technology that we're really trying to innovate on, making 767 00:42:54,720 --> 00:42:57,040 sure we're putting in that product as well to really kind 768 00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,840 of elevate it forward. And then I was a huge fan this 769 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,280 last year of the OR, I guess, Well, this year it's still this 770 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:05,640 year. We're not 2025 yet. 771 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,760 Yeah, we're getting there of the Hyperion TGTS. 772 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,000 I, I, the, the guide rows work really well for me. 773 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,240 It's light, it's responsive, the grips great. 774 00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:17,960 Like it's like one of those shoes that I've kind of gone to 775 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:22,080 for a lot of my workout days and just had a lot of fun with it. 776 00:43:22,720 --> 00:43:25,600 Is there is, are we going to be seeing another evolution of the 777 00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,880 base Hyperion line as well between the Hyperion 2 and two 778 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:30,520 GTS? Yeah, for sure. 779 00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,160 So Hyperion 3, again, the keyword that you said there is 780 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:35,800 fun. Like I think we want to keep 781 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:40,120 putting technology that feels fun and basically a transition 782 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:41,880 that feels fun. That's going to be kind of our 783 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,640 DNA when it comes to that shoe. And so we will have an increased 784 00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:47,840 stack height for sure. We want to make sure that we're 785 00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,040 kind of evolving it forward and giving you and giving the 786 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,680 consumer as much fun of that DNA Flash V2 experience as we can. 787 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,440 But for everything that you're talking about, we still want it 788 00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,800 to hit the sweet spot. So we don't want it to hit too 789 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,200 much to Max, you know, category. We want that shoe to cook and 790 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,720 kind of do its thing from a innovation and just kind of like 791 00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:09,880 a wild geometry point of view. So we want to keep it in this 792 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,320 kind of like fun everyday training type of category. 793 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,440 And honestly, I think that's where it will succeed. 794 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,480 Yeah, let it cook. Let it cook, let it cook. 795 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,480 Awesome. And then I, I know you alluded 796 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:26,480 to Hyperion Elite 5 being a real big one that you're excited for. 797 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,920 Are there any other specific models that you're really 798 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,360 excited for for 2025 or is that like, is that the model? 799 00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,040 I would say there's probably two others. 800 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,240 So obviously we talked about Glycerin 22 and I'm excited to, 801 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,440 you know, for us to bring DNA tuned into an everyday trainer 802 00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,360 because again, the Max experience for me is just like 803 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,320 that's not the category that I prefer to run in, but it's 804 00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:51,080 helped a lot of people. So I'm excited to try that in a, 805 00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:52,560 in a shoe that's an everyday trainer. 806 00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:55,600 But there are two shoes I definitely want to signal out. 807 00:44:55,600 --> 00:45:00,240 So one is actually Cascadia 19. So that comes out in fall 25. 808 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,000 The PLM who works on that, Nick is like, you know, one of the 809 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:08,600 most dedicated people in his category and his craft and has 810 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,960 done just a great job. So, you know, as far as from 811 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:16,440 like a fit and performance point of view, it's outlived like like 812 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,200 any metric that we set towards set towards it. 813 00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,480 So basically, like, you know, we have a certain metric that we 814 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,600 try to hit, we have KPIs that we always try to hit and it just 815 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,960 blew them away. And so it just like feels more 816 00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,920 comfortable under foot. Like it's that perfect like 817 00:45:31,240 --> 00:45:33,600 everyday trail shoe, but it could be a light hiker. 818 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,080 Like it really does so many things for us. 819 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:39,320 And I think we just got the the fit and the performance nailed 820 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,320 and like Nick did a great job for it. 821 00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,400 So to me, I feel like that will kind of reinvigorate that 822 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,320 franchise and kind of move it forward. 823 00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:49,400 And honestly, I think we're going to anchor our trail line 824 00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,080 in the Cascadia moving forward because it is such a powerful 825 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,400 name in our industry. But also like it can definitely 826 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,640 mean like, you know this like Pinnacle trail shoe when it 827 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,440 comes down to it. So Cascadia 19 I'm I'm actually 828 00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,680 really looking forward to the second shoe. 829 00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:06,960 I want to call out and this might be a surprise, is actually 830 00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,720 the launch eleven. Yeah. 831 00:46:09,720 --> 00:46:13,680 So, so obviously, you know, it's been, it's been with Brooks for 832 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:17,400 over 10 years or been in the Brooks line for over 10 years. 833 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,680 It was actually the first shoe that I worked on and it just 834 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,120 like it was a shoe that I was so excited to work on because I 835 00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,200 just, I loved it. You know, throughout my career, 836 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,680 it was always a shoe that I was interested in and felt great. 837 00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:32,640 Kind of that everyday lightweight trainer, of course, 838 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,640 but because of like COVID, it went through an 18 month cycle. 839 00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,280 So it didn't get an update. It didn't get any kind of 840 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,840 newness or freshness. And so now it has like Flash V1 841 00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,040 for a good prize. It has this really compelling 842 00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,640 upper and it's just kind of like brought itself into like a new 843 00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,880 identity that, you know, I think we were looking to push it into 844 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,840 a new space. So, yeah, again, because it was 845 00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:57,960 the first year I worked on, I was like, you know what that's 846 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:00,040 like. I'm, I'm really pumped for that 847 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,040 shoe. It's just like a shoe at, you 848 00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:05,680 know, at, at under $140.00. It'll, it'll come in at 1:20. 849 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,640 It comes out in a couple months. But basically it's just a shoe 850 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,240 that it's like this, this is a fun staple in our line. 851 00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:13,680 And is that a good price point And you know, shouldn't be 852 00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:14,720 overlooked? Yeah. 853 00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:18,560 And that's great to bring some energy and enthusiasm for those 854 00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,440 shoes, right? Everyone gets so excited for 855 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:25,160 these like premium top shelf, you know, performance shoes, but 856 00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:27,680 there's such a huge market for the things that are around that 857 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,920 one to one 20 range. And there are good shoes out 858 00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,160 there. Like you guys have had the 859 00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,520 launch and then what was the Rebel, right? 860 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,520 Has always been yeah. And that I remember a few 861 00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:42,040 versions ago, I love that shoe. I was like, I was almost 862 00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:43,760 choosing that shoe over some of the other things online. 863 00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,600 So it was it was awesome. So I'm happy to hear that that 864 00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:49,160 there's some enthusiasm and excitement about those shoes 865 00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,040 because I know that doctors are running. 866 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,640 I mean, we do talk about that sometimes with budget and like 867 00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,600 you know, realistic shoes for different demographics of people 868 00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,880 and you know, things that are are accessible so. 869 00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:01,640 That is awesome. And when you think from like a 870 00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:05,360 global perspective as well, like again, those shoes do more 871 00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,760 business than say you're like 151 Sixty's or you're 200. 872 00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:12,440 So if you can add like a super critical foam with just like a 873 00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,800 ton of value at that price point, like again, you can bring 874 00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,720 a consumer a new experience and it's just kind of like fun. 875 00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,400 It's almost like more fun and a challenge to work with shoes in 876 00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,360 those constraints because like you can't get people phones, you 877 00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:27,680 can't get plates. You know, you really have to be 878 00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:31,200 inventive of like speak for the consumer, like make sure you 879 00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,600 give them value, but then give them something interesting in 880 00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,320 that space that maybe is unexpected. 881 00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:38,240 So I think that's why I like. It was such a a fun project to 882 00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:40,480 work on and I'm excited for it to to update. 883 00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,880 Yeah, I just have a couple more questions for you. 884 00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,720 I respect your time. So I want to make sure Tina was 885 00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:48,480 nice enough to come on here on a Friday night. 886 00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,120 So this is when we're recording this. 887 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:52,320 No better place. No, no better place. 888 00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:56,120 I'd rather be so. So the first one, and it's 889 00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,080 totally OK if the answers are no and you can't talk about it, but 890 00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:03,760 are there any new debut shoes coming out in 2025 where there's 891 00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,480 like a brand new line that we haven't seen before? 892 00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:12,600 So good question. So Glycerin Max was actually our 893 00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:16,440 like big like this is our new technology, our new innovation 894 00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:19,040 DNA tuned. And then because we were so 895 00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:23,800 excited about it, we actually debuted it early in 2024. 896 00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,920 So it was one of those things where like, wow, this is really 897 00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,280 compelling. It has a great innovation story. 898 00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,480 Like let's let's get this to market as soon as we can. 899 00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:35,760 And, and obviously we've been, we've been grateful for that 900 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,480 opportunity and and grateful for the sales that we've seen now. 901 00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:43,080 So I will say that we're taking big swings on the responsive 902 00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,080 cushion and performance side. So I will say like that is the 903 00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,000 line we just had sales conference a couple weeks ago. 904 00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,040 And so that's the line that people are just hyper focused on 905 00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,480 because we're bringing like innovation, interesting 906 00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,000 geometries, just like really compelling stories. 907 00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:01,200 And so I think that's going to bring our brand a lot of energy. 908 00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:06,280 But if I could, could I actually talk about 2026 is that. 909 00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,080 Yeah, yeah, I. Mean we're welcome. 910 00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,000 Yeah. Yeah, let's do it. 911 00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:14,040 So again, just a lot of energy and we're super excited, you 912 00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:19,480 know, for, for product in 2025. As far as innovation goes, 2026, 913 00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:23,440 we're seeing it as like a year of of the consumer speaking to 914 00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:24,960 us from a biomechanical point of view. 915 00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,640 So we're actually starting to see just some nuances in in bio 916 00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,800 mechanics that obviously, you know, maybe maybe next time you 917 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,600 can have some of the run researchers on maybe Evan or or 918 00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:37,760 one of those guys. But we're seeing kind of some 919 00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,040 nuances in bio mechanics that is opening up a new space for us. 920 00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,760 And I think, you know, when we look at how our industry has 921 00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,400 evolved, we've seen minimalism and maximalism. 922 00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:50,760 And I think everyone's assumption is like, it's just 923 00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:54,000 going to swing all the way back, but we see a new space being 924 00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,400 carved and we're going to build product towards that space. 925 00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:01,280 So, so I think it's exciting because, you know, right at the 926 00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,920 end of the day, consumers just want support and they want 927 00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,240 comfort. And so how can we give them that 928 00:51:06,240 --> 00:51:09,520 in every single shoe for them to self select, but then give them 929 00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,200 like such a variety of experiences that they just kind 930 00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:15,000 of come back for more. So so that's what I'm most 931 00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,880 excited about because it actually takes our product line 932 00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:21,280 to a new level and then brings in this new space that maybe 933 00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,680 consumers didn't know they were a part of it and then now they 934 00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:28,480 get the self select into it. So, so that's probably as much 935 00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,680 as I can say, but it's, it's super exciting and it's just 936 00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:35,520 like again, allows our industry to now take a, a bigger swing 937 00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:37,240 into a new space. Yeah, that's awesome. 938 00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,080 And and I really like that too, because, you know, at doctors we 939 00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:41,880 always say the art and the science of the stuff that we're 940 00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:43,800 putting on our feet. And it's like this nice 941 00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,480 dichotomy of like, it's coming together, it's blended. 942 00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,120 We're doing it so that that's really fun. 943 00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:52,160 Yeah, So not to jump ahead, Yeah, again, like we're we're 944 00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:53,880 doing Rd. maps for 2030 right now. 945 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:57,800 So I'm like crazy in the future, but but 2026 is like that next 946 00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,440 big swing and I'm sure other brands will be there as well. 947 00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:04,080 But it's been cool to see like again, Brooks has a a bio 948 00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:07,680 mechanic LED company to see the space and say like let's go 949 00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:11,160 after it and let's like bring consumers a new experience that 950 00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:12,560 that they didn't even know existed. 951 00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,240 So yeah, which would be cool. That's so exciting. 952 00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,680 My last question now, this is kind of throwing it back to like 953 00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:23,880 the old the OGDOR days for the fans where we always have this 954 00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:27,480 random question at the end. You know, that makes no sense 955 00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:29,640 and has nothing to do with shoes for the most part. 956 00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:35,880 But if Brooks was a pizza, what kind of pizza would it be? 957 00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,680 OK, so this is a great question because there's no wrong answer, 958 00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:41,160 right? At the end of the day, we're 959 00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:44,440 going to, we could say, we could literally say we could say 960 00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:47,000 cheese pizza and be like This is why we could say this. 961 00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:50,480 But what I'm going to land on, it's kind of it's a 2 parter. 962 00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:55,240 So, so bear with me here. So I, so I feel like our team, 963 00:52:55,240 --> 00:52:57,280 we actually like talked about this a little bit because I 964 00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,480 think this is like a, a wonderful question and we, we 965 00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:05,640 landed on Supreme pizza because we basically are like, look like 966 00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,440 there's quality. The ingredients like it gives 967 00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:10,680 you something for everyone. It's a perfect blend of 968 00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,880 ingredients that you kind of want to embody from vegetables 969 00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:16,000 to meat, you know, protein to whatever. 970 00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,800 And it kind of rounds it out in like a, a high quality way. 971 00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,200 And that's kind of like the the secret sauce again, what's the 972 00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:25,920 perfect blend of ingredients that welcomes kind of everybody? 973 00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:30,600 But the sneaky part about it is where we finish it off is in the 974 00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:35,320 wood fire oven because because our phones are super critical 975 00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:39,880 foams and they get put into an oven to bake that foam to its 976 00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,720 perfect level. And I know you know this, David, 977 00:53:42,720 --> 00:53:46,320 but if if you have a regular pizza and you have a wood fire 978 00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,960 pizza, like, come on, you know, which one has a better quality 979 00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,360 and what, and what finishes off the right way? 980 00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:54,520 Like, come on, you're right, you're right. 981 00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:57,880 So, so that's what that's what we landed on because I mean, I 982 00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:00,000 like the perfect blend of ingredients, but also that 983 00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,520 finishing in the wood fire grill, like to me is like the 984 00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:05,000 wood fire oven is like the perfect example of like, oh, 985 00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:09,200 connection of foam in an oven to, you know, a pizza in the 986 00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:10,600 oven. So anyways, that's what we 987 00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:12,760 landed on. Yeah, that's got to be a top 988 00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:15,280 three response in Dior history. That's. 989 00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:18,640 Awesome. I was thinking this there. 990 00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:22,280 There's a couple places here local to Seattle that they have 991 00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:25,600 wood fired pizza ovens and it really like, it just changes the 992 00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:27,480 experience. Like it's just, I don't know, 993 00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:29,160 it's the best. I'm not going to lie, when you 994 00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:31,920 see someone, they got that long little thing that and they're 995 00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:33,960 pulling it like it just changes everything, right? 996 00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:35,360 It does. It really does. 997 00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:37,520 Oh, I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. 998 00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:39,640 And you're just watching them do it and they're just like 999 00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,760 perfecting their craft and you, they're just an appreciation for 1000 00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:43,320 it. So. 1001 00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:45,400 Yeah, yeah. It's like artisan, right? 1002 00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:49,280 Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. 1003 00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:50,920 All right. Well, thank you so much for 1004 00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,160 coming on with us, Tina. It was awesome. 1005 00:54:53,240 --> 00:54:56,000 I mean, you've been here before. We love having you on and I'm 1006 00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,040 sure you'll be on again in the future, but. 1007 00:54:58,280 --> 00:54:59,840 And I'll try to spread the wealth. 1008 00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:02,080 I know I, I apologize because I do. 1009 00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:05,200 I do obviously like coming on and I feel like I should give 1010 00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:08,120 other others a turn. But love, love speaking with 1011 00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:11,280 you, love hanging with you. And again, just appreciate the 1012 00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:12,480 opportunity to come on. Yeah. 1013 00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:14,480 Thanks again. For those that are listening, if 1014 00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:19,400 you can hit like subscribe all that and follow us at Dockers of 1015 00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,880 running on all of the handles, Brooks running as well. 1016 00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:25,080 And yeah, thank you for listening. 1017 00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:39,440 Hi, everyone. Matt here from Doctor Running 1018 00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:43,400 and today we're going to do a little bit of Tre stuff as we 1019 00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,080 don't always get to make it with a business that we have as being 1020 00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:48,080 parents and faculty and clinicians. 1021 00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:52,880 But we are super lucky to get some industry leads in here and 1022 00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:56,160 some incredible industry people to talk to us about what is 1023 00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:57,640 coming up. So I'm very fortunate to have 1024 00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:01,160 Todd Falko with me all the way from Germany actually. 1025 00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,600 So Todd is coming from Puma. And Todd, if you wouldn't mind 1026 00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,160 introducing yourself for those who may not know you and kind of 1027 00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:10,200 what your role, what Puma is. Yeah, absolutely. 1028 00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:12,280 So I'm Todd Volcker. I'm the product lead at Run 1029 00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:14,280 Puma. Actually been with the brand six 1030 00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:18,640 years came on and shortly after I started, we actually reset the 1031 00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:20,360 entire product category for Puma. 1032 00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:24,160 New new phones with Nitro, new rubber Puma grid, new plates, 1033 00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:27,600 new upper fit systems, new last shapes, new a little bit of 1034 00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:30,120 everything. And we launched that product 1035 00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:32,400 line in 2021 really for two reasons. 1036 00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:35,320 One, I think Puma had a lot of running shoes in the past, but 1037 00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:38,360 it was a great opportunity for us to catch up to the latest in 1038 00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:42,200 research, latest in, in terms of material science, all of those 1039 00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:44,000 things. And in fact, one of the very, 1040 00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,920 very first things we did was go to the Bio Mechanics Symposium 1041 00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:49,360 in Calgary to kind of dial some of those things in. 1042 00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,920 But I think relaunching in 2021, you know, we made some really, 1043 00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:55,400 really good shoes that people were really excited about. 1044 00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:58,920 We also got super lucky with the Olympic bronze medal from Mali, 1045 00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:00,840 you know, a couple months after that. 1046 00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:04,760 And so definitely developed, I would say a lot of buzz for Puma 1047 00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:07,440 and really for us, it really is all about Nitro foam. 1048 00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:08,760 That's our key heat differentiator. 1049 00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:11,960 It's a super critical phone. We're using better raw materials 1050 00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:14,920 than Eva, you know, and we can really kind of tune each of 1051 00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:16,640 those different products to what we need to be. 1052 00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:19,880 But Nitro is going to be, you know, softer, lighter, more 1053 00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:22,920 bouncy and at the end of the day really give the best ride to 1054 00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:25,680 people and you know, run Puma. We see ourselves as the 1055 00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:28,560 Challenger brand. It's our, our requirement. 1056 00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:31,720 We think as a brand to be, I like the Puma, right, faster, 1057 00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:35,040 more nimble, more able to adapt to trends and to, to really be 1058 00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:38,400 an industry and category leader. And that's our goal with with 1059 00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:40,920 performance running. Yeah, I think you guys have done 1060 00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:44,840 an absolutely phenomenal job of really creating challenging 1061 00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:47,280 challenger brand is I think a great way of putting this. 1062 00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:51,000 I think it's really help people think, push not only yourselves, 1063 00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:52,280 but others. And you've got some great 1064 00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:55,640 researchers that are also putting out some really, really 1065 00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:57,280 cool stuff. We have the very good fortune of 1066 00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:00,120 talking with you and Laura Healy in the past and that was an 1067 00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,520 awesome conversation. So we'll come back to some 1068 00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:05,080 research because that's really where kind of we, you and I 1069 00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:06,760 thrive. And I want to pick your brain on 1070 00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:08,640 that. But what as a? 1071 00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:11,240 Yeah. Can I just add also as well 1072 00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:14,840 that, you know, we launched 2021 Olympics right away and then 1073 00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:16,880 obviously we just had the 2024 Olympics. 1074 00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:21,360 We're, we're, we're seeing such positive responses, sales are 1075 00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,680 good, but more importantly, like people messaging me and our team 1076 00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,440 and saying this is the best Puma running shoe that I've ever 1077 00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:29,280 tried and this is my all time favorite running shoe. 1078 00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:31,640 Now we're also, you know, 21 to 24. 1079 00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:33,800 We, we kind of called that getting started and getting in 1080 00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:38,000 the game 25 to 28 for this next Olympic cycle. 1081 00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:41,320 We're really focused on, you know, I would say elevating and 1082 00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:44,120 really dialing and all those details even more, both on 1083 00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:45,360 product. But then when it comes to 1084 00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:48,080 marketing, retailer relationships and, and really 1085 00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:50,600 kind of doing everything cohesively a little bit better. 1086 00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:53,480 And that does actually tie into my move to Germany. 1087 00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:56,320 I'm sitting with the innovation team, but also working with the 1088 00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:59,280 European sales team and also trying to build kind of a global 1089 00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:01,920 tech Rep network is one of my new responsibilities. 1090 00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,640 But I think our goal is really to be able to have the best 1091 00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:07,400 product and then connect that with everybody down the chain. 1092 00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:09,840 So I think that's what at Puma we're all focused on. 1093 00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:11,600 That makes sense. So that goes on to my next 1094 00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:15,720 question is talking about still being in that the innovation 1095 00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:18,960 stage, even though it's crazy to me now with the product coming 1096 00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,960 out that you're still quoting the innovation phase, it seems 1097 00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,360 like you're doing a combination of innovating and refining at 1098 00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,320 the same time. So on that topic, what are some 1099 00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:30,280 releases that you are really excited about that are coming up 1100 00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:33,120 here? Yeah, I think we've had honestly 1101 00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:36,880 an incredible spring and fall for 2024. 1102 00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:41,200 Deviate Nitro 3 launched, Deviate Elite three, you know, 1103 00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:46,840 had a crazy American trials for the Olympics and then 12th place 1104 00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:49,920 in the women's marathon. I think we've also done an 1105 00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:52,840 incredible job of pushing innovation and doing things like 1106 00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:56,400 the Fast RB, which you know is a shoe with three carbon plates, 6 1107 00:59:56,400 --> 01:00:01,320 pieces of foam and and 5056mm. So we're really kind of. 1108 01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:05,280 Over and beyond what those requirements were, but I think 1109 01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:09,240 for us balancing, you know, kind of the things that we that we 1110 01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:12,960 stand for like DV8DV8 Elite with some things that are fun and 1111 01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:14,840 innovative. And then we've also seen an 1112 01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:17,200 incredible response this fall to the mag Max. 1113 01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:19,560 I've actually watched a couple of your videos recently. 1114 01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:22,920 So you guys are are very interested in this new and kind 1115 01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:25,400 of emerging space where there's a lot of geometry. 1116 01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:28,240 But I think for us, you know, really trying to to be the 1117 01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:31,520 faster brand and have shoes with those plates in it, be 1118 01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:34,960 disruptive, but also be on top of trends are yeah, what we've 1119 01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:37,560 done really, really well in the back half of 2024. 1120 01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:40,680 Sweet. So I'm curious as there's a lot 1121 01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:43,320 of hype around both the RB and the Mag Max. 1122 01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:46,960 Where do you see each one of these fitting in the runner's 1123 01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:48,840 arsenal? And what runner do you think is 1124 01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:50,960 appropriate for these type of shoes? 1125 01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:54,120 Yeah, that's a great question. I'll tackle the RB first because 1126 01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:56,880 this is maybe the the most interesting 1. 1127 01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:00,560 So we really had two goals here. 1 was to just break the rules 1128 01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:03,280 because that's fun and we're Puma and we're disruptive. 1129 01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:06,080 But the other was really to provide the shoe with the most 1130 01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:07,840 bounce. So we're actually seeing about 1131 01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:13,280 22% more deformation and even 8% energy return even over our most 1132 01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:16,240 elite race day shoe. Now it comes with a higher price 1133 01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:18,680 point and also a higher weight, right? 1134 01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:21,560 So you're, you're, it's us pushing boundaries and not 1135 01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:23,360 necessarily going to be the ultimate shoe. 1136 01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:26,640 But for me, this shoe is really for somebody that wants kind of 1137 01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:30,240 a different experience and a little bit more bounce, but it 1138 01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:31,640 also works in a variety of things. 1139 01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:35,200 I mean, we have a elite runner in Sweden named Hannah that's, 1140 01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:37,960 you know, running really, really fast workouts in it. 1141 01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:41,320 I will also highlight too that because there's the full length 1142 01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:44,040 carbon fiber plate right next to your foot and sorry, you can't 1143 01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:47,920 see it super well, but that's really firm and rigid under your 1144 01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:49,840 foot. And then the other two plates, 1145 01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:53,280 fun fact, we actually experimented with with full 1146 01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:57,360 carbon fiber plates and the ride was like, it was like a carbon 1147 01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:00,560 fiber bike on a gravel Rd. It's like not the tool for what 1148 01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:02,880 you wanted. So the design team, we actually 1149 01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:05,960 switched to having two TPU plates here with the carbon 1150 01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:07,680 fiber. And at the end of the day, like 1151 01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:10,400 because that carbon fiber is right under your foot, you step 1152 01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:13,960 down and you feel really nice and stable on the shoe. 1153 01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,720 But then you know, the TPU and the foam pieces allow for a 1154 01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:20,760 little bit more, let's say attenuation of the shock or kind 1155 01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:23,800 of that ground impact. So you really do feel stable, 1156 01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:26,280 even though it looks like kind of a funky shoe, and you 1157 01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:28,880 definitely get that bouncy feeling and sensation in a good 1158 01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:30,000 way. Got it. 1159 01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,600 So it sounds like this is for the consumer that wants that 1160 01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:35,880 different experience, wants that next level thing, but also not 1161 01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:38,160 to be afraid because a lot of these shoes as you get taller 1162 01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:41,200 stack heights and especially as you add some of these elite 1163 01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:44,000 types of foams in their super foams that they can be quite 1164 01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:45,480 unstable. And you balance it out by 1165 01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:47,400 putting the carbon plate right underneath the foot. 1166 01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:50,800 And most people will perceive the cushioning of shoe based on 1167 01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:52,000 actually what's right under their foot. 1168 01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:53,480 So you've been able to balance that outgoing all right. 1169 01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:55,280 You're not going to feel mushy mess. 1170 01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:58,880 Not that I'm saying any shoes like that, but there it's a tool 1171 01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:00,880 that's going to work really well for those that want that 1172 01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:03,200 different experience are probably going to be running 1173 01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:04,880 faster. So this may not be the best 1174 01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,720 option for somebody that's going maybe slower paces. 1175 01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:10,080 This is your up tempo, faster type shoe. 1176 01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:12,960 Despite where you're saying the weight might be, it is still 1177 01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:16,920 designed with speed in mind and has the starting fast moniker. 1178 01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:20,920 Or is that a misinterpretation? Yeah, to be honest, I'm not sure 1179 01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:21,960 about that. I don't know how. 1180 01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:25,880 It's like a fast running shoe. I think you can run different 1181 01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:29,960 paces in it and even going, let's not say plotting, right, 1182 01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:33,640 But like a relaxed recovery on space, I think it still works. 1183 01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:35,920 You're dead on. And I think when I first saw 1184 01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:38,360 this, I was like, wait, is that going to be really squirrely 1185 01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:39,880 under foot? Is this going to be a problem? 1186 01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:41,720 And it actually feels nice and stable. 1187 01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:43,440 So that's good. You know, I think one of the 1188 01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:47,080 most important things too is to say it also is obviously unique, 1189 01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:49,160 unique visual and dynamic, right? 1190 01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:52,120 So it's not for everybody. There's not huge quantities of 1191 01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:54,200 it out there. I will say the response we've 1192 01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:57,560 gotten, it's sold out in almost every market that had pairs, 1193 01:03:57,560 --> 01:03:59,920 which is really cool. And then I think the people that 1194 01:03:59,920 --> 01:04:03,680 wanted this looking visual and a different experience, they look 1195 01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:05,320 for this, right? We didn't advertise it. 1196 01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:06,880 We didn't need to put a lot of stuff out there. 1197 01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:09,240 It it speaks for itself on on its own. 1198 01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:12,400 And I think it also, you know, kind of inspired some of the the 1199 01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:14,680 future innovation things that that we're going to talk about 1200 01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:17,040 in a little bit as well. Almost like a it's like a 1201 01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:19,920 concept car, but a concept shoe that actually you didn't even 1202 01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:21,840 have to advertise it, but that that's always good, but you 1203 01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:23,280 don't have to advertise and it sells out. 1204 01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:24,920 That's awesome, The bar. Exactly. 1205 01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:27,640 Yeah, you nailed it. Yeah, I think the fast is just a 1206 01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:31,400 nod to maybe it linking more to fast R in terms of the midfoot, 1207 01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:34,640 you know, decoupling and and some of the the the innovation 1208 01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:36,040 pieces that are in there. Got it. 1209 01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:38,440 So you did this is it's it's a shoe, but you're also teasing at 1210 01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:41,360 the future, which is awesome. So you're also holding the mag 1211 01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:43,120 Max, which has actually been really popular as well. 1212 01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:46,000 So tell me a little bit about kind of thoughts behind this, 1213 01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,280 even though, so this is we, we've gotten a chance to test 1214 01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:49,560 this and have really, really enjoyed it. 1215 01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:51,800 And Andrew, I actually have some slightly different opinions on 1216 01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:54,000 it, but both enjoyed it. So tell us a little bit more 1217 01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:56,560 about this and kind of what's coming from the Magmax. 1218 01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:58,480 Yeah. And on my, my long run last 1219 01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:01,040 night and then even today, I was kind of deep diving on, on some 1220 01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:03,800 of your content both in prep and, and to see what you guys 1221 01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:05,720 are saying. Look, I mean, I think some of 1222 01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:08,000 the things that you've said is what we've seen in the industry 1223 01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:11,680 trend is 40mm. I mean you still call it a Max 1224 01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:13,560 cushion shoe. It's not really a Max cushion 1225 01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:15,680 shoe anymore. That's just a regular shoe, like 1226 01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:18,040 everyone. I mean, you know, velocity, the 1227 01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:21,280 first one was like 32 and then it's 34 and now we're closer to 1228 01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:23,280 36. And I think there's just that 1229 01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:28,000 nice sweet spot around 40mm where a lot of shoes, you know, 1230 01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:29,880 I mean, it used to be just to your point, the old like 1231 01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:32,160 Nimbuses or whatever and cumuluses were a little bit 1232 01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:34,200 lower. There's so many shoes bucketing 1233 01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:37,080 around 40. And I think with softer foams, 1234 01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:40,400 you have a little bit maybe less under your foot, right? 1235 01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:43,480 Like if you, if you have something firm and you step on 1236 01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:45,240 it, you're going to stay there. But if it's soft, you're going 1237 01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:48,040 to maybe sink in. And again, I love the way that 1238 01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:51,160 that you and, and Nathan talked about, you know, functionally 1239 01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:53,000 what's under your foot. And you know, we talk about 1240 01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:55,040 specs and numbers and that stuff exists. 1241 01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:58,000 But at the end of the day, we're at, we at Puma, we're really 1242 01:05:58,000 --> 01:05:59,520 focused on that running experience. 1243 01:05:59,960 --> 01:06:04,040 So I think with the 40mm that's called a magnify from Puma being 1244 01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:07,720 basically a a normal regular running shoe, you know, and 1245 01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:10,160 there's only a couple meters difference between, like I said, 1246 01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:14,240 velocity magnify, you know, Deviate is also in that 38 to 39 1247 01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:17,920 category that we wanted a true Max cushion shoe that gave you a 1248 01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:22,800 more than average cushion. So yeah, so we're at 46mm here, 1249 01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:26,120 a little bit lower drop with the 8 and and did that mostly with 1250 01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:28,520 the insole. But the most important thing and 1251 01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:31,880 as you know is really this rocker because the shoe it's not 1252 01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:33,320 going to bend so much in the middle. 1253 01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:38,040 And I think honestly, this is one of the most successful and 1254 01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:41,920 great launches that maybe we've ever had or that any other 1255 01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:44,200 branch. I mean, when you launch a shoe, 1256 01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:46,680 you know, we're going to talk about this maybe at another day, 1257 01:06:46,680 --> 01:06:48,840 but you know, like our for everyone from the beginning of 1258 01:06:48,840 --> 01:06:51,720 2023, right? Some people loved it, some 1259 01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:53,840 people blah, blah, blah. You guys said, well, it's not 1260 01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:56,640 really a stability shoe, but it kind of works a little bit some 1261 01:06:56,640 --> 01:07:01,480 places, you know, and, and it was good sales were good, people 1262 01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:04,080 liked it, but it was, there were some that like, and I'm not so 1263 01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:07,160 sure this is Mad Max has been nothing but a home run, nothing 1264 01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:09,440 but people loving it. And I think it's, it's the new 1265 01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:12,240 experience, but it really is, you know, the way our designers 1266 01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:16,080 and developers built it, we have in, in my opinion, nearly 1267 01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:18,720 perfect. I love the heel rocker and then 1268 01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:20,720 that 4 foot rocker bevel as well. 1269 01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:23,080 And you know, the tread points, as you said, are, are, are 1270 01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:26,120 super, super important. But I think for me it's it's 1271 01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:28,400 people that are either 40's the new normal. 1272 01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:31,240 So now you want to go up a little bit in stack and that's 1273 01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:33,800 the over cushioned. The other thing that's super 1274 01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:36,880 important and sorry for injecting some of my own 1275 01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:39,960 personal running history and biases, et cetera. 1276 01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:43,240 But if somebody run a lot of marathons and ultras and also 1277 01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:47,080 actually at one point had four ankle surgeries, Haglunds and 1278 01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:50,920 eight other procedures and then three fixes because it wasn't 1279 01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:52,920 perfect, you know how how surgeries can go. 1280 01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:55,960 I actually have a lot of personal problems with like 1281 01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:58,040 plated shoes. Like I can do them and they're 1282 01:07:58,040 --> 01:08:01,880 fast as I'll get up, but then I get some Achilles or calf or 1283 01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:05,080 different types of soreness. And for me, you know, something 1284 01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:09,280 like a deviate elite is on a fast day and then the next day I 1285 01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:13,280 really want a kind of a more rigid midfoot shoe that just 1286 01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:16,279 rocks and rolls me off. So to me, I, I kind of also 1287 01:08:16,279 --> 01:08:19,680 think that a super shoe and an over Max cushion shoe is a 1288 01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:21,680 great, great thing. And you know, again, I'm, I'm 1289 01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:24,479 also a masters runner, so I'm not 20 something like some of 1290 01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:26,920 these younger people. And, and I, I, I heard you say 1291 01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:29,359 the other day that you want to run until whatever the end of 1292 01:08:29,359 --> 01:08:30,840 time you said or the end of your life. 1293 01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:34,840 And I, and I think I like, you know, I was like, oh, I used to 1294 01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:36,960 be in Vibram. So I used to like try to go 1295 01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:39,359 barefoot and like, I just can't do stuff like that. 1296 01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:41,880 So I think that there's a lot of people, whether it's people that 1297 01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:45,359 are a little bit older or maybe more running miles or that are 1298 01:08:45,359 --> 01:08:47,080 using some of these new different tools and want to 1299 01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:49,600 balance. I just think it works so, so 1300 01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:51,720 well. And I have to give kudos to our, 1301 01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:53,439 our team. I mean, I think we executed a 1302 01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:54,439 great product here. Yeah. 1303 01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:56,640 So I definitely agree. Like again, so there's that 4 1304 01:08:56,640 --> 01:08:59,120 foot rocker. Puma does the four foot 1305 01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:01,880 extremely well in their shoes and there's a lot of really cool 1306 01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:04,200 stuff that's coming out that we'll talk about about the 1307 01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:06,520 forever on some of the the great benefits and how people have 1308 01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:09,359 actually done responded really, really well to that area on a on 1309 01:09:09,359 --> 01:09:11,200 a different day, obviously. But I think that's great. 1310 01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:14,640 And I think I I hear you on the each of these shoes. 1311 01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:17,960 What we're seeing is that there's no perfect model, but 1312 01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:20,840 each one of these has a specific purpose and it's filling a niche 1313 01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:23,920 that's going to work for potentially a large group of 1314 01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:25,920 people. It might work for really well 1315 01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:28,200 for a small group of people, which is totally fine, but at 1316 01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:31,600 least people have options. And I think having a shoe that 1317 01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:34,760 does stiffness well without needing a plate is really key 1318 01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:37,120 because you've got a great rocker in the mag Max. 1319 01:09:37,279 --> 01:09:40,240 It is not the most aggressive shoe, which is not its point, 1320 01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:42,240 but it's still got that great cushioning. 1321 01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:44,840 It'll still work really well for somebody who wants that taller 1322 01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:46,359 ride. That's maybe it doesn't 1323 01:09:46,359 --> 01:09:49,720 necessarily need that super shoe feel on an easy day. 1324 01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:52,439 So it provides a really get great contrast to pairing with 1325 01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:55,560 something like the deviate natural elite 3, which is very, 1326 01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:57,720 very aggressive and probably one of the like. 1327 01:09:57,720 --> 01:10:00,800 I'm not surprised it was on the feet of several top people at 1328 01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:02,920 the US Olympic marathon trail. I'm like, Yep, after I tried it, 1329 01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:05,600 like that makes sense. This is really fast, right? 1330 01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:09,800 So you're going as many companies are maximal. 1331 01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:12,320 But it sounds like you also are trying to balance that out a 1332 01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:14,120 little bit. And I know we're we, we talked a 1333 01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:16,480 little beforehand. This might not be as available. 1334 01:10:16,480 --> 01:10:19,160 I still want to shout it out because knowing that people have 1335 01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:21,800 options is really key. So what else is coming out? 1336 01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:23,640 Yeah. And and we'll see what the what 1337 01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:25,800 the global distribution of this looks like. 1338 01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:29,920 So if you remember the Liberate Nitro, we had a one, we had a 1339 01:10:30,040 --> 01:10:34,200 second version 2 good shoes that were quite low to the ground. 1340 01:10:34,440 --> 01:10:39,360 2820 was the stack and, and a little bit more of a minimal 1341 01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:41,480 feel. You know, Liberate 2 is, is 1342 01:10:41,480 --> 01:10:44,240 still in market. But we actually worked with the 1343 01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:47,520 original request actually came from the Japanese team because 1344 01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:50,920 they I've I've I've heard this, I haven't seen it myself, but 1345 01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:53,360 they say that there's at the beginning of the year, as soon 1346 01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:57,080 as Kona Echidin is done, they say no thick shoes and no plated 1347 01:10:57,080 --> 01:10:59,320 shoes. You have to run in a regular 1348 01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:02,280 strengthen your feet, strengthen, you know, everything 1349 01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:04,240 from your knee down basically type model. 1350 01:11:04,240 --> 01:11:07,320 And again, you guys have talked at great length about, you know, 1351 01:11:07,440 --> 01:11:11,160 if you have more cushion or less cushion, the same force is about 1352 01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:12,880 there. It's just pushing it around. 1353 01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:15,440 So if you have more, maybe you're stiffening your leg or 1354 01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:17,960 engaging more muscles in one place or another. 1355 01:11:18,360 --> 01:11:21,080 So really the goal with the proprio Nitro and we're really 1356 01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:24,480 excited, it's super lightweight, we're at about 150 grams here, 1357 01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:28,160 was really to provide that ground contact and ground feel, 1358 01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:31,960 but also to make a shoe that would be World Athletics legal. 1359 01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:36,840 So we went to 20mm in the heel. We do have a 4mm drop for 16 in 1360 01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:39,280 the forefoot. It does actually, I don't, you 1361 01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:42,000 can see my my sample tag. It doesn't actually have a 1362 01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:44,000 unique construction where there's no strobel. 1363 01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:47,160 So we did a stitch and turn with the strobel directly on top of 1364 01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:49,640 the foam. And this is actually a a 1365 01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:52,680 slightly more advanced version of our of our Nitro foam that's 1366 01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:55,800 closer to the Nitro Elite. It's a really, really great 1367 01:11:55,800 --> 01:11:59,000 foam, super minimal outsole, you know, lightweight, breathable 1368 01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:03,120 upper with wings but but not lined or gusseted too much, and 1369 01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:05,640 just a great lightweight training package that yeah, I 1370 01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:08,040 think for the athletes and the runners that want that, this 1371 01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:10,640 will be a really, really good compliment if you're like, I 1372 01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:13,080 don't want to use a super shoe every single day. 1373 01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:15,920 Yeah, I think I that's awesome that you are getting creating 1374 01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:18,000 options. I think we we've been concerned 1375 01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:20,200 isn't the right term, but just kind of asking questions of when 1376 01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:23,160 you spend a lot of time in a Super Maxwell shoe, which as you 1377 01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:25,880 mentioned 40 is the new norm. You know what happens? 1378 01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:27,520 Are we really balancing it at things out? 1379 01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:30,280 And not everybody has the option to have multiple shoes, but if 1380 01:12:30,280 --> 01:12:34,040 that's an option, balancing things out might not be a bad 1381 01:12:34,040 --> 01:12:36,600 option because if anything, it's not necessarily bad. 1382 01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:38,640 But if you try to transition to something, something that you 1383 01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:40,600 haven't been in a while, that might be challenging. 1384 01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:42,600 We're still trying to figure out what happens. 1385 01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:44,800 Like we kind of figured out with the minimalist stuff, we're 1386 01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:47,720 like, we know that there there's some hypertrophy, muscles get 1387 01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:50,800 larger in the feet, but there's also some risk factors of being 1388 01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:52,080 in minimalist shoes all the time. 1389 01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:53,600 And not all of us can do that anymore. 1390 01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:56,440 As you mentioned, I'm kind of in that boat as I keep slowly 1391 01:12:56,440 --> 01:13:00,520 testing and trying things, but where was I going with this? 1392 01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:04,520 It's good still to have that option as of like going, huh, 1393 01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:08,040 like trying to still work down that way as as I am also about 1394 01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:10,240 ready to enter the masters category as well. 1395 01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:13,280 So it's good to have options now. 1396 01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:14,880 It sounds like there's going to be a limited release. 1397 01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:17,600 I love the name by the way. I, I love that you hadn't 1398 01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:19,760 mentioned that at least unless I missed it, you hadn't mentioned 1399 01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:21,280 the name. I just assumed it was a new 1400 01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:22,800 liberate but. The name is. 1401 01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:25,520 The name is Propio. I'm so. 1402 01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:28,000 Happy you did that. The fun story is I actually, I 1403 01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:31,520 brainstormed that name so long ago that it was on a buried. 1404 01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:34,720 And then actually my team found and they're like, yeah, we're 1405 01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:36,560 calling. And I was like cool proprio. 1406 01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:38,520 And they were like, no, there was no R And I was like, wait, 1407 01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:43,400 what? So it is PROP I/O, not PRIO 1408 01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:46,160 like, not proprio. It's fine as long as we get 1409 01:13:46,160 --> 01:13:49,400 close to the term proprioception so people understand what that 1410 01:13:49,400 --> 01:13:50,560 means. I'm totally fine. 1411 01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:53,600 Every time we use that term in our reviews, we're like, what is 1412 01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:54,280 that? I'm like, great. 1413 01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:56,120 If Puma's now talking about this, this is good. 1414 01:13:56,120 --> 01:13:59,320 It'll get more more mainstream, hopefully, even if we're missing 1415 01:13:59,320 --> 01:14:00,880 an R. Exactly. 1416 01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:04,080 I think it's a nice balance. And then, yeah, to close this 1417 01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:06,040 out, can we go to, can we go to one last toy? 1418 01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:07,840 Yeah. So I'm super excited about this 1419 01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:11,440 last thing because I think this area has been slowly emerging 1420 01:14:11,440 --> 01:14:16,200 and I'd love to know what kind of what what encouraged this, 1421 01:14:16,200 --> 01:14:18,920 What made you what made Puma decide to go into this area? 1422 01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:22,440 And what solution do you think that this shoe presents that may 1423 01:14:22,440 --> 01:14:24,000 not have been out there previously? 1424 01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:26,120 Yeah. So we're talking about a shoe 1425 01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:29,080 that is actually called the Deviate Natural Elite Trail. 1426 01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:33,160 So the best part of that name is you already know what it is. 1427 01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:37,800 It's the Deviate formula basically for the trail Puma, 1428 01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:40,680 we're focused on road running. That is where we want to win. 1429 01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:43,640 We have great foam and we know how to build shoes really, 1430 01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:46,320 really well. So we have actually really, 1431 01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:49,920 really nice trail line. I was actually hunting all last 1432 01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:53,560 week and took the Explorer Nitro seven days in a row and was 1433 01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:55,520 absolutely loving it. So we have that. 1434 01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:59,720 We have a voyage as well as a fast track, but in the premium 1435 01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:02,440 trail side we have the new DV8 trail. 1436 01:15:02,440 --> 01:15:05,880 So what's really cool about this is we do have a carbon composite 1437 01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:10,200 plate on the inside. It is kind of in between a 1438 01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:12,520 carbon fiber and a carbon composite. 1439 01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:16,520 It is actually the same shape as Deviate Elite as you're probably 1440 01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:19,480 used to from the three. But what's different about it is 1441 01:15:19,480 --> 01:15:22,680 actually we did build a little bit more flexibility into it 1442 01:15:23,280 --> 01:15:26,320 because when you're on trail and uneven train, you certainly want 1443 01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:27,640 to shoot. That's going to kind of, you 1444 01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:31,200 know, couple before and be able to move around some of those 1445 01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:33,600 rocks a little bit. Pardon the lines. 1446 01:15:33,640 --> 01:15:36,800 I was measuring my tread points doing a little bit of this is my 1447 01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:40,280 personal pair clearly. But then we have 3mm lugs here. 1448 01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:43,920 So it's not too crazy aggressive, but it definitely 1449 01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:47,080 gives you really, really good uphill and downhill traction. 1450 01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:50,520 And because we're using a supercritical foam, you have to 1451 01:15:50,520 --> 01:15:53,000 be careful when you're exposing that to rocks and dirt and a lot 1452 01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:54,720 of things. So we actually have a piece of 1453 01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:57,760 what we would call ESS or hardened DVA to protect the 1454 01:15:57,760 --> 01:16:00,560 midfoot in the plate as opposed to some of the other shoes where 1455 01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:03,200 we'll typically, you know, have that plate a little bit more 1456 01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:05,440 exposed. But we actually wanted to have 1457 01:16:05,440 --> 01:16:09,040 this kind of recess up so that when you do step on maybe a rock 1458 01:16:09,040 --> 01:16:11,720 or something that is not going to throw your foot One Direction 1459 01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:14,000 or the other. So got upset about Griffin. 1460 01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:16,880 I mean, this is an incredible design and I think it it really 1461 01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:18,920 delivers. Now, you know, whereas we're 1462 01:16:18,920 --> 01:16:22,600 closer to 200 grams here, we're going to be closer to 240, most 1463 01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:25,400 of that really being rubber weight in this trail super shoe. 1464 01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:29,400 But yeah, there's a lot of competitors in that 2:45 to 2:50 1465 01:16:29,400 --> 01:16:31,120 range. So we wanted to be right there, 1466 01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:36,240 you know, and again, nice breathable non lined upper and a 1467 01:16:36,240 --> 01:16:39,240 really, really nicely dialed in fit system, you know, kind of 1468 01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:41,560 minimal heel collar. So if you are running through 1469 01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:43,040 creeks, you're doing something crazy. 1470 01:16:43,400 --> 01:16:44,920 Just a a really, really great shoe. 1471 01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:46,640 You can tell I'm excited about it, clearly. 1472 01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:49,800 Yeah, I'd be equally excited. So you mentioned spec wise 1473 01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:54,080 coming in about 240 grams, I'm assuming for men's size 9, UK 1474 01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:55,080 size well? Probably 8. 1475 01:16:55,080 --> 01:16:57,440 Yeah. I think it's, I think it's 2:44, 1476 01:16:57,440 --> 01:16:59,080 but got it on the samples you weigh. 1477 01:16:59,080 --> 01:16:59,800 Yeah. Got it. 1478 01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:03,560 So getting in the lighter range of the trail super shoes and 1479 01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:07,960 what what stack height are we at for the for the elite trail? 1480 01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:11,000 Yeah, we, we experimented with a couple different ones. 1481 01:17:11,200 --> 01:17:15,120 In the end, we actually wanted to keep it not too, too high 1482 01:17:15,240 --> 01:17:19,240 just for stability and ankles. So just double checking, but I 1483 01:17:19,240 --> 01:17:25,680 think we're at 36 with an 8mm drop, so 3529 actually as I 1484 01:17:25,680 --> 01:17:28,640 checked. So 6mm drop a little bit lower. 1485 01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:31,520 We actually also designed a brand new last for this that has 1486 01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:34,880 a little bit straighter show to a little bit more foot health. 1487 01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:38,360 I've run way too many ultras where my big toe blows up. 1488 01:17:38,360 --> 01:17:40,360 So that was something that we worked on. 1489 01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:43,120 But yeah, just a banger of a shoe. 1490 01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:47,000 And you mentioned something earlier about the rocker and 1491 01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:48,800 that Puma does a good job with these designs. 1492 01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:52,680 I want to highlight, you know, I would say Jerry is, is one of 1493 01:17:52,680 --> 01:17:55,440 the guys that works on our, on our outsoles and our last for a 1494 01:17:55,440 --> 01:17:57,760 fit shape. And then we also have Amanda and 1495 01:17:57,760 --> 01:17:59,840 people that are doing a lot of fit and wear testing. 1496 01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:02,920 From the very beginning when we started this Nitro running 1497 01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:06,880 collection, we actually doubled the number of pairs of, of shoes 1498 01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:11,280 that we were doing and then X, sorry, we did four times as many 1499 01:18:11,280 --> 01:18:14,160 shoes and doubled the miles. So the goal was that we ended up 1500 01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:17,400 getting about 8 times as much, you know, volume on all the 1501 01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:19,840 shoes and it's not a big deal. If you have somebody that's 1502 01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:22,280 running, you know, maybe 2025 miles a week, you're getting 1503 01:18:22,280 --> 01:18:24,400 good feedback. But we all know that person 1504 01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:27,640 that's doing maybe closer to 40 to 50 miles a week is not only 1505 01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:29,600 going to wear out, wear test shoes faster, but they're going 1506 01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:32,120 to be able to give you a little bit more better and dial dialed 1507 01:18:32,120 --> 01:18:34,280 in feedback. So we did a lot of testing with 1508 01:18:34,280 --> 01:18:37,080 this as well as, you know, mag Max, all the different shoes. 1509 01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:39,640 But I think that that's really one of the reasons why we've 1510 01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:42,440 been able to make really, really good shoes and a lot of good 1511 01:18:42,440 --> 01:18:45,400 categories and get really good feedback because when people 1512 01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:48,320 don't like things, they change. And you know, we, we, we have a 1513 01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:50,360 process where we're seeing prototypes like every brand 1514 01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:52,040 does. But I would say that Puma, we've 1515 01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:54,440 really invested in that a lot. That's awesome. 1516 01:18:54,440 --> 01:18:56,600 So my next question, probably you're already walking into 1517 01:18:56,600 --> 01:18:58,760 this, so I'm curious. You've got a lot of great 1518 01:18:58,760 --> 01:19:00,920 products coming out. So I'm seeing solutions and 1519 01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:04,600 purposes for each one of these. So what new things have you 1520 01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:06,160 learned from a research perspective? 1521 01:19:06,160 --> 01:19:08,000 Because I know you've got some great labs. 1522 01:19:08,240 --> 01:19:11,000 What are the big takeaways that we should know and what, what, 1523 01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:13,800 what big research things have you learned that are informing 1524 01:19:13,800 --> 01:19:16,280 your current product line and maybe some of the future ones, 1525 01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:18,000 if you could talk about that. I'm not, you know, I know, I 1526 01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:19,040 know. This stuff is proprietary. 1527 01:19:19,440 --> 01:19:22,080 Yeah, no, great question. I mean, I think, you know, 1528 01:19:22,080 --> 01:19:26,000 starting with race day as an easy high star that everybody 1529 01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:28,840 shoots for, you know, running economy is still what, what 1530 01:19:28,840 --> 01:19:31,960 roots the day there and having, you know, the, the, the 1531 01:19:31,960 --> 01:19:35,080 efficiency, right, both the, the, the cushion compliance and 1532 01:19:35,080 --> 01:19:39,120 the rebound mixed with a plate, which there's a lot of 1533 01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:42,600 developing research, I would say, around plates and, and how 1534 01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:45,720 much of the benefit that they do versus the foams. 1535 01:19:46,320 --> 01:19:49,280 You know, I think personally, I, I believe and have seen that 1536 01:19:49,280 --> 01:19:52,480 the, the foams are actually more so the important thing than the 1537 01:19:52,480 --> 01:19:54,400 plates. And I mean, you mentioned Laura, 1538 01:19:54,400 --> 01:19:56,600 I know U mass they did research where they actually cut the 1539 01:19:56,600 --> 01:19:59,840 plate and found that running economy didn't change and that 1540 01:19:59,840 --> 01:20:01,800 for me actually, you know, offered a lot. 1541 01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:04,200 A lot of questions of well, wait, do we need stiff plates? 1542 01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:06,680 What does that look like? But I think running economy 1543 01:20:06,680 --> 01:20:09,640 being, you know, when it comes to race day, kind of that 1544 01:20:09,640 --> 01:20:12,720 driver, there's a few different usages. 1545 01:20:12,720 --> 01:20:16,800 Maybe a 5K versus a marathon is a little bit different and we're 1546 01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:20,000 continuing to explore that. I mean, you've seen from us not 1547 01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:22,880 only the RV, but we have the Fast forward in the past. 1548 01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:26,920 So that still exists. But I think the validation is 1549 01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:30,960 there is important, you know, And then as far as like the 1550 01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:34,440 product line at Puma, like I think that the product team and 1551 01:20:34,440 --> 01:20:37,240 our management, like everybody does such a good job of whenever 1552 01:20:37,240 --> 01:20:39,800 we're adding a shoe, it needs to have a place and it needs to 1553 01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:41,800 have a reason. And there's a lot of different 1554 01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:46,320 ways to kind of define that. But I think we have a lot of 1555 01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:50,280 really, really strong running experts internally, which, you 1556 01:20:50,280 --> 01:20:53,760 know, yeah, maybe we didn't have as much of in the past, which is 1557 01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:55,720 not easy to say. But I, I think that the, the 1558 01:20:55,720 --> 01:20:59,120 products kind of spoke to that. And the product that we have now 1559 01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:02,160 really speaks to that level of expertise of, of really like 1560 01:21:02,320 --> 01:21:05,160 what competition is out there? How can we do something a little 1561 01:21:05,160 --> 01:21:07,080 bit better, a little bit different and really kind of 1562 01:21:07,080 --> 01:21:10,520 fulfill that Puma DNA, you know, And I think that the Mag Max is 1563 01:21:10,520 --> 01:21:12,640 an example of that. And I think we've got some other 1564 01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:16,280 really interesting things coming out, you know, and we talked 1565 01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:20,480 about a lot of newness, right? Like we talked about new Max 1566 01:21:20,480 --> 01:21:24,200 cushion, new low profile, new plated, new trail super shoe. 1567 01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:28,640 And I do want to remind you as well that like for us Deviate 1568 01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:33,120 Nitro Forever, Run for stability and then the Velocity for just 1569 01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:35,600 regular everyday cushioning. Those are our three hero 1570 01:21:35,600 --> 01:21:38,920 franchises that we're really, really focused on both from a 1571 01:21:38,920 --> 01:21:41,400 distribution, working with retailer standpoint, but just 1572 01:21:41,400 --> 01:21:44,440 also consumers have started to fall in love with that, with 1573 01:21:44,440 --> 01:21:46,760 those shoes and more and more. So we actually want to keep 1574 01:21:46,760 --> 01:21:50,200 those really, really consistent when we can make maybe the Nitro 1575 01:21:50,200 --> 01:21:52,640 foam a little bit better. We're making a few adjustments. 1576 01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:56,320 But, but I think really focusing on the core of the range and 1577 01:21:56,320 --> 01:21:59,040 figuring out whether it's through testing with with 1578 01:21:59,040 --> 01:22:02,600 universities or with fit and wear like does this shoe fit and 1579 01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:05,600 feel like the previous is what's most important to the the center 1580 01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:07,160 of the range. That's awesome. 1581 01:22:07,160 --> 01:22:10,040 So it sounds like not only are you taking what's what's being 1582 01:22:10,040 --> 01:22:12,160 learned and how things are changing in terms of 1583 01:22:12,160 --> 01:22:15,920 understanding what components are what are, what's making the 1584 01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:18,960 impacts that and what are those impacts as we learn that things 1585 01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:21,240 are different, also how they interact is different. 1586 01:22:21,520 --> 01:22:24,320 But also from a consumer standpoint, understanding that 1587 01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:27,360 yes, having a billion shoes out there is really confusing and 1588 01:22:27,360 --> 01:22:30,320 making sure that you have that each product is providing a 1589 01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:33,160 solution is really key. And so it's cool to see that 1590 01:22:33,160 --> 01:22:35,480 there is not just the bio mechanics research nerds out 1591 01:22:35,480 --> 01:22:38,560 there like myself, but also like understanding what the consumer 1592 01:22:38,560 --> 01:22:40,920 wants from that type of research and making sure that there are 1593 01:22:40,920 --> 01:22:43,360 things that you address is absolutely awesome. 1594 01:22:43,360 --> 01:22:45,440 So. You just want to add to, I mean 1595 01:22:45,440 --> 01:22:47,800 that there's, there's a lot of different validation as well, 1596 01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:49,160 right? Like so for race day, we do the 1597 01:22:49,160 --> 01:22:53,360 running economy, mixing the biomechanical testing with the 1598 01:22:53,360 --> 01:22:56,160 mechanical testing and really looking at products through both 1599 01:22:56,160 --> 01:22:58,960 of those lenses, lenses. I would also say it's so, so 1600 01:22:58,960 --> 01:23:02,240 important because at the end of the day, like even if a foam is 1601 01:23:02,240 --> 01:23:04,960 showing, is showing better on a lab spec or whatever, like 1602 01:23:04,960 --> 01:23:07,040 people still have to really, really like the shoes. 1603 01:23:07,240 --> 01:23:08,720 I think that's what's most important. 1604 01:23:09,480 --> 01:23:12,720 And you know, even when we maybe have an advancement in, in foam 1605 01:23:12,720 --> 01:23:15,160 and we can maybe add a few more points to the rebound or do some 1606 01:23:15,160 --> 01:23:18,280 of these different things, then that's one element in a soup 1607 01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:20,960 kitchen of ingredients. And you still have to make sure 1608 01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:23,880 that all of those are balanced to to give people what they 1609 01:23:23,880 --> 01:23:26,600 want, but also sometimes to kind of exceed what they're what 1610 01:23:26,600 --> 01:23:27,880 they're looking for and hoping for. 1611 01:23:27,880 --> 01:23:29,720 So yeah, that's that's some of the research. 1612 01:23:29,720 --> 01:23:32,120 And I think that the next year we're going to talk about I can, 1613 01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:34,960 I can go into that in a little bit more detail, but your 1614 01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:36,520 listeners will have to stay tuned. 1615 01:23:36,880 --> 01:23:37,920 Yeah, they'll have to stay tuned. 1616 01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:39,800 We'll have that episode soon. So we really appreciate you 1617 01:23:39,800 --> 01:23:41,960 coming on and appreciate your time on this stuff. 1618 01:23:42,120 --> 01:23:44,680 You can find these products almost anywhere and we've got 1619 01:23:44,680 --> 01:23:47,080 reviews of most of the stuff either out or coming up. 1620 01:23:47,080 --> 01:23:49,560 And as always, we appreciate and hope this stuff helps you. 1621 01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:04,680 Well, I hope you enjoyed a sneak peek into what's coming in 2025 1622 01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:08,600 from Brooks, Puma, and Saukney. And if you're thinking about 1623 01:24:08,600 --> 01:24:11,040 what's coming next for Doctors of Running, it's kind of always 1624 01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:14,360 a fun end of the year. We're planning conversations 1625 01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:17,600 about our favorite shoes for the year in multiple different 1626 01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:19,320 categories. So just keep an eye out for 1627 01:24:19,320 --> 01:24:20,840 that. And just a reminder, if you 1628 01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:23,920 haven't already from the intro of this podcast, take a minute 1629 01:24:23,920 --> 01:24:27,280 and go check out our merch shop. And we'd love for you to check 1630 01:24:27,280 --> 01:24:29,720 it out and hope that you all enjoy the opportunity to get 1631 01:24:29,720 --> 01:24:31,960 some of this this stuff and wearing around. 1632 01:24:31,960 --> 01:24:34,520 So we appreciate all of you. We're thankful that you're on 1633 01:24:34,520 --> 01:24:36,960 this journey with us and hope you have a great day.