1
00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:10,960
Hello everybody and welcome to 
the Doctors of Running podcast 

2
00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:13,600
where we a group of doctors of 
physical therapy, discuss the 

3
00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:15,680
art and science of running and 
the stuff that we put on our 

4
00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,000
feet today at the round table. 
We have the founder of Doctors 

5
00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:20,600
of Running, doctor Matthew 
Klein. 

6
00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,000
We have Doctor David Salas and 
myself, I am Nathan Brown and we

7
00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,800
are going to be having a fun 
fact or fiction episode where we

8
00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,840
put up commonly held beliefs and
we ask the question, is there 

9
00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,240
validity to this? 
And so those are always fun 

10
00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,240
episodes. 
But before we do that, we want 

11
00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,800
to give a shout out to the 
presenting partner of this 

12
00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:40,800
podcast, which is Rabbit 
Apparel. 

13
00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:46,320
Fun fact for you all at this, 
during this month they are 

14
00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,040
having their ten year 
anniversary. 

15
00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:52,160
And so if you don't know 
anything about Rabbit, they were

16
00:00:52,160 --> 00:00:54,320
started. 
Yes, I just said it 10 years 

17
00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:56,760
ago. 
David, you know the owners, 

18
00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,440
don't you? 
Jill and Monica, the founders of

19
00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,560
it. 
I've run with Jill several 

20
00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:04,920
times. 
Yeah, my old. 

21
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,040
But yeah, they had a dream of 
kind of pulling together and 

22
00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,480
making the best possible gear 
that kind of fit this vibe that 

23
00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,880
mashed between being very chill 
but also going out and like 

24
00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,080
chasing whatever dream that you 
have. 

25
00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:23,920
And so they've had this kind of 
two pronged goal of making 

26
00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:28,040
really high quality stuff that 
is creating a community of 

27
00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,480
dreamers that's like a tagline 
that they have. 

28
00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,200
And it's just bringing anybody 
who has any sort of dream, no 

29
00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,760
matter how big or small, to the 
table with a way to make the 

30
00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,520
running community that they're 
trying to form very inclusive 

31
00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:44,040
and kind of pushing things 
forward from a performance 

32
00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,880
standpoint as well, no matter 
what performance, quote UN quote

33
00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:48,920
means to you. 
So pretty cool stuff. 

34
00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,400
We are all sporting some kind of
rabid stuff right now. 

35
00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,000
I've got the, it's still like 
getting down into the 20s right 

36
00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:56,720
now. 
So I have my lined flannel on 

37
00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:02,920
right now and but you you can 
check out rabbit running 

38
00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,560
ra-bbit.com to check out more of
their stuff online. 

39
00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:11,200
You can use the code May docs 10
to get 10% off your order in the

40
00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:15,040
month of May. 
But let's start talking about 

41
00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,560
what we have in for testing. 
What have you all been running 

42
00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:18,720
in lately? 
Yeah. 

43
00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,360
So I I'll go first. 
Mine will be the shortest this 

44
00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,280
time for once. 
So we just got the review out 

45
00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:27,880
for and now I'm going to draw a 
blank. 

46
00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,360
The Saucony Triumph 24. 
I did not grab it, but we talked

47
00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,480
at length about it on the last 
podcast. 

48
00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:38,320
Very, very soft platform. 
They're using a new midsole ATPU

49
00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,560
based Incredi Lux. 
This is one of the softest shoes

50
00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:46,000
on the market, but it also the 
weight came down considerably. 

51
00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:50,960
It's now sub 9 oz and I think it
starts to blend in with that 

52
00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,480
Super Blast 3:00-ish kind of 
category. 

53
00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:57,240
Real soft step in a little bit 
wider base in a rocker platform.

54
00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,400
It's not gonna be a shoe that 
goes super fast, but it has a 

55
00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,760
little bit of bounce to it too. 
I think standing and walking you

56
00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,120
can feel the platform kind of 
deform under your foot a little 

57
00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:07,920
bit, which might be a turn off 
for some people. 

58
00:03:07,920 --> 00:03:11,840
But when you start running, I 
actually had like no issues. 

59
00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,320
It was like the compression of 
the foam was fast enough and the

60
00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,000
transitions were quick enough. 
It actually was a really nice 

61
00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,080
shoe and I think a massive step 
in the right direction for 

62
00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,160
Saucony. 
I think it's one of the things 

63
00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:26,040
that really differentiates it 
from the ride, where in the past

64
00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,560
were like the Ride and the 
Triumph really weren't like that

65
00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:31,960
different from each other. 
Like the Triumph was probably 

66
00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,360
just a little bit nicer. 
But for the price point, you 

67
00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:36,960
probably just go with the ride, 
at least for me personally. 

68
00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,160
And the Ride has been one of the
top shoes, you know, in that 

69
00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:40,800
neutral category for me for 
years. 

70
00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:47,640
So I feel like this truly splits
it, you know, where there's no 

71
00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,080
middle ground anymore, where 
it's like, no, the Triumph is 

72
00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,600
the plush premium option for 
Saucony in the neutral category 

73
00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,360
A going along the flagship line 
of shoes. 

74
00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,280
Obviously they have the 
paramount Max and some other 

75
00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,240
things that are evolving, but to
be at 43 millimeters of stack, 

76
00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:07,680
sub 9 oz super plush foam, good 
outsolder ability and traction. 

77
00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,120
And I mean, it's not like 
horribly unstable like I 

78
00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,800
actually found like it ran well.
I think it was a really big win 

79
00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,839
for Saucony. 
Honestly, I just I don't I tend 

80
00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,240
to like shoes a little bit 
firmer personally, but I didn't 

81
00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,960
have an issue with it and I 
actually I did enjoy my time in 

82
00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:24,240
it. 
I think it was a solid shoe. 

83
00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,280
I will say it is the lightest of
the premium trainers out there 

84
00:04:28,280 --> 00:04:33,560
right now and by far the 
bounciest and softest, although 

85
00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:35,680
I've actually been able to pick 
up the pace a little bit in this

86
00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:37,080
shoe. 
I'm I'm doing a thing right now 

87
00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,760
where I'm just avoiding super 
erasers and just doing all my 

88
00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,840
workouts and stuff like that and
daily trainers and did a kind of

89
00:04:44,840 --> 00:04:46,760
like short up tempo effort in 
this. 

90
00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,360
And I was like pleasantly 
surprised kind of several 

91
00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,880
versions ago I could do that. 
And then the recent ones were 

92
00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,520
kind of mushy or, you know, like
more trainers getting asked. 

93
00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:57,160
This is a little bit more 
versatile with the lighter 

94
00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,160
weight. 
But I got to say, and I'm not 

95
00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:00,480
that we're not sponsored by 
them. 

96
00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,880
We are not paid by them. 
We refuse that Saucony might 

97
00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:08,120
have like the most bouncy 
midsoles on the market right 

98
00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:09,800
now. 
Like it's wild the stuff that 

99
00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:11,840
they're putting out. 
And this is kind of their 

100
00:05:11,840 --> 00:05:14,640
pinnacle shoe. 
And I 100% agree, the ride, the 

101
00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:16,840
Triumph could not be more 
different now. 

102
00:05:16,840 --> 00:05:20,160
And I think that's a great thing
because, as David said, that 

103
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:21,840
wasn't always the case for a 
couple years. 

104
00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,320
I also find it good that they 
have now introduced the 

105
00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:30,560
Paramount Max, which also is 
very different like in feel that

106
00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,120
there's no overlap between those
three models anymore. 

107
00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:37,320
They're pretty all they're all 
pretty distinct from my 

108
00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:38,720
experience. 
I thought the Paramount Max 

109
00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,800
though, was bouncier than Oh 
yeah, it's just heavier. 

110
00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:43,840
But it was it was bouncier for 
sure. 

111
00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:47,920
Whereas the Triumph felt more 
like mushy soft, But I didn't 

112
00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:49,360
put it. 
I didn't try to do a ton of up 

113
00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,920
tempo stuff, just a little bit. 
Yeah, I had the opposite 

114
00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,560
experience, David, not to 
interrupt you where I found the 

115
00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,560
Paramount Max. 
I agree with you like really 

116
00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,200
bouncy, but just not as it's 
lighter than the listed weight. 

117
00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:08,840
I think my size 10 is not 10.6 
oz, it's like 10.2 and that 

118
00:06:08,840 --> 00:06:10,720
their sample weight is supposed 
to be 10.6. 

119
00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,640
So it's lighter but very bad, 
like you're right, very bouncy. 

120
00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:19,240
I just can't pick it up and it's
just remit is that like long run

121
00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,240
bounce along kind of shoes? 
So, but I agree, they are 

122
00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,840
definitely different and I think
people go, oh, there's a lot of 

123
00:06:24,840 --> 00:06:27,520
similarities like I mean maybe 
some similarities in like the 

124
00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:31,200
stack height measurements, but 
how the phones reacted very and 

125
00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,120
the fit very different. 
So sorry David didn't interrupt.

126
00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:35,760
You. 
Oh, you're good. 

127
00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:39,720
Oh my bad. 
I had two more things, David 

128
00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:41,360
with your. 
So that was the review that just

129
00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,120
came out. 
So by the time oh, it's already 

130
00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,400
out. 
So yeah, you guys can go read 

131
00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:47,440
that if you want the more in 
depth thoughts. 

132
00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,280
Now I will be focusing just on 2
shoes here. 

133
00:06:51,280 --> 00:06:53,200
I kind of got my foot a little 
mad. 

134
00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,600
I kind of rushed it back after 
Boston and kind of had some runs

135
00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:57,840
longer than I probably should 
have. 

136
00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,720
I probably ramped up the running
going into Boston probably 

137
00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,800
quicker than I should have. 
And so I'm not like injured 

138
00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:08,640
injured. 
I'm just like taking the weekend

139
00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:10,760
off here and I'm just going to 
try and get some consistency 

140
00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:14,600
back and some lower mileage. 
So with that said, I only got 2 

141
00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,400
shoes on the docket that I'm 
going to be looking at training 

142
00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:19,200
wise. 
So we'll be doing a quick eval 

143
00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,880
on the Innovate Trail Fly 02. 
I feel like I've been saying 

144
00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:23,880
that for like 4 or five podcasts
now. 

145
00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,080
I gotta get this thing done. 
It would have been done by now 

146
00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:33,280
had my foot cooperated, but I 
guess it'll live to run another 

147
00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,480
day. 
And the Brooks Ghost 18, So 

148
00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:38,240
that'll be the neutral 
workhorse. 

149
00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,800
Get some mileage on that. 
I've been, I've been liking it 

150
00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:42,640
standing and walking. 
It's been quite nice actually. 

151
00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,080
I don't know why. 
So it feels like the Triumph has

152
00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,600
gone up in volume and the Ghost 
has gone down in volume. 

153
00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,520
Like it just snug fit on the 
last couple Ghost models, but 

154
00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:54,720
not to the point like it hurts 
my foot or anything. 

155
00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,600
But it's just, it's definitely a
lower volume, especially through

156
00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,560
the midfoot. 
But yeah, that's what I got. 

157
00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,640
I always found it interesting 
that Brooks has a slightly more 

158
00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:11,120
a smaller fit, just with how 
they consider like multiple 

159
00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,120
different purposes for running 
shoes, you'd think they would be

160
00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:15,800
opened up a little bit more than
they are. 

161
00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:17,840
But I'd agree with you, David. 
They're just a little bit more 

162
00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,400
snug lately. 
I have two shoes. 

163
00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,560
I'll keep the first one brief 
because I know that people 

164
00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:28,000
probably won't care about this 
as much as I do, but I put out a

165
00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,800
a Monday shakeout will be coming
out about this because I have 

166
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,080
had a myriad of injuries and 
therefore I spent a lot of time 

167
00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,960
doing other things. 
So doing things like lifting, 

168
00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,559
doing things like increasing my 
multi directional movement for 

169
00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:43,919
bone health. 
So I've been engaging in those 

170
00:08:43,919 --> 00:08:45,040
things. 
Some of the things that I love 

171
00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,560
to do are playing basketball 
with our kids out in the 

172
00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,360
driveway, but then also playing 
pickleball and tennis with my 

173
00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,840
friends. 
So for that I've been using the 

174
00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:58,040
0360 rally. 
It's their court shoe, so I also

175
00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,160
have their basketball shoe, 
which is the X1 and I have the 

176
00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,720
mid version, but I actually have
finally gotten more pickleball 

177
00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,520
time in these. 
The big difference between this 

178
00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,240
and their basketball shoe is 
just there's a lot more 

179
00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:10,800
flexibility through the four 
foot. 

180
00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,680
It just feels a little bit 
lighter and more nimble too, but

181
00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:16,480
it has a lot less structure in 
the heel. 

182
00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:20,000
So like if you for me, like I 
have recurrent ankle sprains. 

183
00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,920
So for basketball and stuff, I 
like having the mid and just a 

184
00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,120
little bit for more rigid heel 
counter. 

185
00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,240
This one's just more nimble and 
moves around well, locks down 

186
00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,720
good. 
I'll I'll leave it there, but I 

187
00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,120
love this shoe. 
It's been really fun to I like 

188
00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:39,600
pickleball and I like tennis, so
a lot more of that to come for 

189
00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,760
me, which is great. 
The running shoe that I've been 

190
00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:48,040
getting new time in is the Mag 
Max 2 from Puma. 

191
00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:52,000
So this is my first Mag Max, so 
I can't compare it to the first 

192
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:57,600
version, but the I expected it 
to be a lot softer than it is. 

193
00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,800
It's definitely it's not like 
firm, but it was, I expected 

194
00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,920
pillowy, kind of like a triumph 
kind of feel when I was going to

195
00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:07,840
step in because this has a lot 
of stack. 

196
00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,360
I think it's 4638. 
So it's an 8mm drop. 

197
00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,880
So it's got a lot of foam 
underneath your foot, but it's a

198
00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,960
little bit on the firmer end and
I almost feel like the foam is 

199
00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:23,000
I'm going to pull a David here 
is a baby between the new 

200
00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:28,000
glycerin and the on cloud boom 
monster hyper. 

201
00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:33,880
Sorry, that was an amalgamation 
of lots of things the on cloud 

202
00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:38,320
Monster 3, hyper hyper 3, 
whatever it is. 

203
00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,480
So I think that it's kind of a 
baby between those because it 

204
00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:46,040
feels like as firm as kind of 
the glycerin, but has a little 

205
00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:51,680
bit more pop like I feel like 
the on cloud monster hyper has. 

206
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,440
So I'm excited to get more miles
in this. 

207
00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,760
I'm curious of how I'm going to 
do because kind of like we were 

208
00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,280
just talking about with Brooks, 
I feel like the fit is a little 

209
00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,720
bit snug and tapers a bit 
through the forefoot. 

210
00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:05,920
And I found that to be true for 
a lot of Puma shoes. 

211
00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,440
But this is when I'm getting 
starting to get some miles in. 

212
00:11:09,560 --> 00:11:12,240
I'm excited to see how it feels.
Matt, what do you got? 

213
00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,480
Yeah, I'm excited for you and 
Andrea because you guys, she's 

214
00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,760
the other one that I think said 
that she had that short. 

215
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,000
I'm like, yeah, we kind of and 
then Andrea is going to be the 

216
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:21,440
real like tech. 
You didn't. 

217
00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:22,960
You said you didn't run in 
version 1. 

218
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,440
Correct. 
I think version 1 was a great we

219
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,480
were divided a little bit. 
I thought there was potential. 

220
00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:29,520
It was not quite as stable as I 
would have wanted. 

221
00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,440
And then Andrea loved her, so I 
really want to see what she 

222
00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:34,440
thinks. 
Then you 2 can combine and go, 

223
00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:36,600
Hey, how is this feel a little 
different? 

224
00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:38,720
So excited to see that. 
So I have a couple things. 

225
00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:43,480
I just wrote my review of the 
Saucony paramount Max, which is 

226
00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,960
very interesting shoe and kind 
of like a how would you call 

227
00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,760
like a non plated super trainer?
Just the full length incredi run

228
00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,440
incredibly bouncy ride like one 
of the most bouncy rides. 

229
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,000
I think I've run in where to the
point where like I really like 

230
00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,480
this shoe for long runs. 
I don't like it unless that 

231
00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:01,920
might absorb. 
I don't really like this for 

232
00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,520
easy runs because it feels like 
it's too much bounce and so I'm 

233
00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,240
pretty be sensitive, even though
I am very fortunate that we get 

234
00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,840
to do this when we wear a bunch 
of stuff and get to try 

235
00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,280
different things. 
I if I spend too much time in 

236
00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:17,040
really soft shoes, I just feel 
myself get really stiff and I 

237
00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,880
don't like when I go back to 
other shoes that are firmer. 

238
00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:21,640
It's really hard for me to 
transition back. 

239
00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:24,200
These aren't bad. 
That's just a thing that I deal 

240
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,240
with that my body kind of 
stiffens up really easily. 

241
00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,840
So for long runs, great. 
Other thing, it's been kind of 

242
00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,080
like short runs. 
I just had a hard time doing 

243
00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,680
lots of miles in these. 
I've gotten long runs and stuff 

244
00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:35,840
like that, but I think it's just
going to be a very unique 

245
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,960
customer that wants this and 
that wants that super bouncy 

246
00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:43,000
Riot again, showcasing that 
Saucony is crushing the bouncy, 

247
00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,360
responsive Bensole game right 
now. 

248
00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:49,040
So interesting shoe and holding 
up really, really well. 

249
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,480
Even took it on a pull to David 
and pulled up, took it on some 

250
00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,360
trails backs in it did fine. 
Not a trail shoe, but it didn't 

251
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,080
fall apart, so it was great. 
Also got a wide fit. 

252
00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,680
So if that's something you want,
it definitely accommodates that 

253
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:02,680
pretty well, which is was a very
pleasant surprise. 

254
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,360
Other shoes that I've got a ton 
of stuff from Brooks, I've got 

255
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,200
the Ghost Max 4, which I have 
been pleasantly surprised about.

256
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,800
I feel like the last two 
versions had been a little bit 

257
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:19,720
either didn't fit well or half a
size short. 

258
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,080
And I finally listened to Nathan
and I went to half size up and 

259
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,720
that fixed a lot of the issues. 
Still narrow and snug, which is 

260
00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,320
really interesting even in my 
size 10 1/2. 

261
00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,440
So yeah, just not really sure 
what's going on with the fit 

262
00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,800
there. 
But still at your classic super 

263
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,160
stable neutral. 
I this has been I've worn this 

264
00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,000
shoe since we got it for 
walking, like walking, standing,

265
00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:42,400
I've pretty much done everything
in this shoe. 

266
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,920
It's been great. 
Yep, not the biggest heel bevel 

267
00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,240
and kind of the way that the 
curve is going is kind of the 

268
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,360
slightly wrong direction. 
But for walking it's been fine. 

269
00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:53,800
Running, it's pretty firm. 
It feels a little better to land

270
00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,960
a little farther forwards and it
but it just showcases a lot of 

271
00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,120
Brooks midsole foams. 
That, and I don't know if this 

272
00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,680
is just me, it's just a lot of 
the Brooks foams have felt so 

273
00:14:02,680 --> 00:14:05,920
firm recently, which is very 
counter to a lot of people 

274
00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,920
going, Oh, they feel so soft, 
you know, hearing about how 

275
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,160
weird testers are talking about 
it's soft, you know, and so I 

276
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,080
don't yeah, I, I don't know, I'm
trying to figure out why I'm 

277
00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,800
experiencing this thing. 
It is these are I'm experiencing

278
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:19,880
this. 
And I think it's because the way

279
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,000
the mid soles are designed that 
I think this works a lot better 

280
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,360
for recreational runners and 
walkers like walking. 

281
00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,800
It's great, very stable, 
excellent. 

282
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,080
Still not cush, still still not 
soft, but I can totally see if 

283
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,480
you don't load this shoe as 
fast, you might actually get 

284
00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:39,160
some perception of softness. 
I come down super hard. 

285
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,120
I tend to pick up the pace a 
little bit. 

286
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,440
So I wonder if it's just the way
I'm loading the foam and the 

287
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,560
shoe that gives me that 
additional firm perspective. 

288
00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,640
Because to be honest with you, 
I've got the Hyperion Max 4 and 

289
00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,240
I'm having the same experience. 
Yes, size 10 1/2. 

290
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:55,680
Much better than the last one. 
I'm getting less blisters on the

291
00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:57,560
end of my toes. 
I'm still getting blisters 

292
00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:58,640
because I am sliding a little 
bit. 

293
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,600
It's been a little bit hard to 
lock down the upper, but it is 

294
00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:05,120
better in the half size up, but 
again, way firmer than the last 

295
00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,880
version And I don't know again 
because 1/2 size up changes. 

296
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,120
This is a plated shoe and 
stiffness of a shoe can 

297
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,360
definitely influence your 
perception of midsole hardness. 

298
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,960
And that's why for those 
wondering, and there's somebody 

299
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,720
put up a great post about 
responded, actually put a great 

300
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,360
comment, which we need to 
highlight that measuring 

301
00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,160
durometer of a midsole through 
the side is garbage because 

302
00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,960
you're the human experience of 
cushioning under foot is a 

303
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,920
complex thing with or with not 
only because there's multiple 

304
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,760
foams here, it's how the foams 
interact, how the stip this shoe

305
00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,720
interact, how you're responding 
to it, how you go to it's it's 

306
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,120
way more complex than go, Oh, 
this reading. 

307
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,280
If that doesn't work. 
So it's you got to get it on 

308
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:47,680
your feet, which is that's why 
we do that. 

309
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,000
We don't do durometer testing 
because you have to take every 

310
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,240
single one and calculate just 
some calculation that's going to

311
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:53,720
be different. 
So I don't know. 

312
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:55,160
I'm still experiencing this 
shoes. 

313
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,160
These are pretty firm, which is 
weird because version three 

314
00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,360
softened up and I got this 
really nice bouncy ride that 

315
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,120
made me really excited about DNA
Gold. 

316
00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:05,680
This one's firmer. 
I've got about 30 miles. 

317
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,360
I just did a long run in it a 
couple days ago and I'm like, 

318
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,840
Yep, still firm. 
Very medially biased, which 

319
00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,320
bothers my post tip. 
I can still handle it and I 

320
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:15,640
still have a place in my heart 
for it. 

321
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:20,200
But yeah, I'm just, these are 
just feeling really firm for me.

322
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:21,400
I'm the end. 
I don't know if it's the 

323
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,920
contrast of me testing a bunch 
of other stuff in that right 

324
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:25,480
now. 
That's like the bounciest things

325
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:26,640
that I think I've ever been out 
there. 

326
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,640
But I'm curious what you 2 think
because I don't know if this is 

327
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,000
just me and it makes me question
when I'm going hey and not to 

328
00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,120
make people question me, which I
guess you should. 

329
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,760
When I'm writing reviews, I'm 
always asking myself going is 

330
00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:42,360
this just a me thing or is just 
an individual subjective 

331
00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,960
experience or is this global? 
Is there some other factors that

332
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,360
I don't know about that are 
influencing this that I can help

333
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:49,960
educate people? 
Going hey, if you have something

334
00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:51,720
like me, you may have the 
similar experience. 

335
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,520
If you don't and your bio 
mechanics are different or how 

336
00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:56,440
you load is different, this is 
not going to be the same 

337
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:57,640
experience. 
You may experience this 

338
00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,200
differently. 
So I'm trying to figure out how 

339
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,600
I can verbalize that and what 
that means. 

340
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:04,760
So any thoughts I'm curious 
about from you too? 

341
00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:10,599
I think for me, the midsoles 
from Brooks haven't gotten more 

342
00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:13,760
firm. 
I think they've stayed very 

343
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:18,040
consistent and whereas other 
companies are bringing in softer

344
00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,079
foams. 
So there may be some comparative

345
00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:21,960
nature there. 
But I think that if you've liked

346
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,640
the amount of cushioning and 
softness that Brooks has given 

347
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,160
in the past, you're probably 
going to find it similar. 

348
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,720
In my opinion. 
The one shoe that I have found 

349
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:35,280
to be not mushy soft, but having
kind of that compressive 

350
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,800
compliance of like the whole 
unit is actually the Cascadia 

351
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,800
Elite shoe. 
That one, I feel like that 

352
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,560
compound is like, beautiful. 
Like I want. 

353
00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:47,680
Yeah. 
What? 

354
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,360
I don't know if it's the same 
DNA goal, but whatever they did 

355
00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:54,720
in that shoe, I love it just 
like I love the Tectonix 3 from 

356
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,160
Hoka. 
And I want that exact midsole in

357
00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,320
a road shoe. 
I want that midsole in a road 

358
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,440
shoe like a trainer, like a 
lightweight trainer. 

359
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,480
And I suppose I could run with 
that shoe on the road, but I 

360
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:11,360
think that that's the only, 
that's the only full composition

361
00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:13,440
of a midsole that I find to be 
on the softer. 

362
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:17,160
And granted, I have not ran in 
their racing stuff, but I'd 

363
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:18,360
agree with you Matt, everything 
else. 

364
00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:21,200
Feels that is the racing stuff. 
But not more firm, just the same

365
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,040
firm. 
I mean, yeah, it's sorry, not 

366
00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,080
the road racing stuff. 
I I have ridden lots of Rd. 

367
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,840
miles in this shoe as well as 
trail and yeah, midsole is 

368
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,640
excellent. 
Also one of the top stable 

369
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,000
neutral trail racing shoes out 
there. 

370
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,880
The only complaint I have is 
just the keel counters a little 

371
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,040
bit too hard for me. 
But once now that things have 

372
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:40,080
calmed down, I'm going to try it
again. 

373
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,400
But yeah, I would totally agree 
that like this is like just a 

374
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,080
fantastic shoe. 
They did a really good job with 

375
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:47,640
it. 
Expensive, but they did a really

376
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,280
good job. 
Mitchell set up everything and 

377
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,480
it's like, Yep, this, you're 
right, So what? 

378
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:54,960
Are you David any? 
Thoughts. 

379
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,240
I mean, I actually do think the 
phones from Brooks have been 

380
00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,880
gradually getting softer. 
I think it's just when you 

381
00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:02,800
compare it to the rest of the 
market, like we're seeing a lot 

382
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,520
of these like really soft ATPUS 
getting rolled out. 

383
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:10,440
And like I think it's just a 
comparison bias like because 

384
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,880
they are starting to do like 
nitrogen infused mid souls. 

385
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,640
And like if you compare the 
ghosts to the ghosts from even 

386
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,680
just three years ago, like it's 
softer, right? 

387
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,280
Like you look at the glycerin 
series, I'd say that DNA tuned A

388
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:24,320
softer than the previous 
versions, especially if you go 

389
00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:26,680
back two versions before they 
went to DNA tuned. 

390
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,160
So while you disagree, I don't, 
but. 

391
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,920
The the the glycerin from 2 two 
years ago was super soft and 

392
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:37,720
bouncy so much I was very 
surprised. 

393
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:39,680
And then it went different 
direction. 

394
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:41,600
But again, that might just be 
me, I don't know. 

395
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:43,080
I. 
Don't know, but I feel like for 

396
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,240
the most part the shoes have 
been getting softer even like 

397
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,560
DNA flash and like some of the 
other foams that they've been 

398
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:52,360
using. 
It's just they happen to be a 

399
00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:56,000
little bit firmer than some of 
the other companies foams. 

400
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,080
I think right now like 
especially when you're seeing 

401
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,840
Saucony roll out like Incredilux
and Incredi run, like those are 

402
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,160
two very, very soft missiles and
bouncy missiles. 

403
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:05,600
You see fly foam leap from 
ASICS? 

404
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,920
Even some of the new Zoom X 
compounds like let's say Vomero 

405
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,440
Plus and Premium, like way 
softer, right? 

406
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,520
I can probably think of an 
example from almost every 

407
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,320
company. 
And if you compare apples to 

408
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,720
apples of the plush premium 
trainers, I think their phones 

409
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,200
are just a little firmer, but I 
think their phones are softer 

410
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:25,560
than they were not that long 
ago. 

411
00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:30,400
So I think it's more of a market
comparison than it is like their

412
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,880
firm and like their phones 
aren't soft, it's just the other

413
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,600
phones are softer. 
Yeah, it's comparison. 

414
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,440
Yeah, it's comparison. 
I also think that the 

415
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:44,320
incremental, that's why what I 
think is, yes, they might be 

416
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:48,080
getting a little bit softer, but
to the person who's only running

417
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,880
in Brooks, they'll feel maybe a 
little softer, but pretty 

418
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:52,880
similar. 
Like they're just not making big

419
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,800
leaps. 
Kind of like if we zoom back, I 

420
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,160
don't know how many years ago 
now, five to seven years ago, 

421
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:04,000
you had Mizuno putting out these
softer wave riders and these 

422
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,560
softer skies and they really 
weren't that much softer. 

423
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,440
They were softer to them, but 
not softer like the jumps that 

424
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,920
other companies were taking. 
And I think that's what we're 

425
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,200
seeing with Brooks right now. 
I don't know if Brooks is 

426
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,840
intentionally like, hey, we want
to stay here on purpose or if 

427
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,360
they have other things cooking 
that they're like, hey, we're 

428
00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:25,440
going to make a big jump in 
certain lines or not. 

429
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:30,320
But I think I think that because
they are looking at walkers very

430
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,080
intentionally, they want these 
shoes to work well for that. 

431
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,440
There might be some 
intentionality in the firmness 

432
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:36,640
that they have in their mid 
soles. 

433
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,400
I think you also have to be 
cautious because running and 

434
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,200
walking are not the same things 
like the joint moments, the 

435
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,920
kinematic kinematics and 
kinematics are not the same. 

436
00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:49,560
And so when you have such a huge
population that also uses most 

437
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,960
companies, To be honest, in the 
United States, I can't speak for

438
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:53,720
Europe. 
So all the European listeners 

439
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,200
for Africa, everybody else, I 
can't speak because I don't know

440
00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:58,640
the data. 
I'm sorry, but at least the 

441
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,760
United States, most running 
shoes are sold for walking, for 

442
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,440
walking and standing. 
So and there's there's a 

443
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,920
Instagram page right now that 
has it's a alpha flies in the 

444
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,160
wild. 
That's like takes photos of 

445
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:10,880
people that are just walking and
outflies. 

446
00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:14,480
I'm not judging. 
I'm just like, yeah, it's it's 

447
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,680
hey. 
And that's just just the reality

448
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,000
of the situation. 
So I think I think it's I think 

449
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:24,400
it's good in a way because you 
know, when ASICS updated the 

450
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,200
Kiano, there was a lot of people
that were upset. 

451
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,360
I remember for years they 
commented going, yeah, we want 

452
00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:31,960
to be careful with this. 
The Kiano is like this this gold

453
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:36,160
standard of a lot of people wear
this shoe and that they changed 

454
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,040
it quite a bit over the last 
several years. 

455
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,720
And so that can either bring in 
new customers or alienate old 

456
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,200
ones. 
And I think Brooks has pretty 

457
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,080
good, Brooks and Ultra have 
pretty good brand loyalty for 

458
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:47,320
people that kind of stick with 
them. 

459
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:52,000
So I can see why they're being 
conservative in that direction. 

460
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,560
I do think, and I'm really 
hoping because I know know some 

461
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,840
of the people that are at the 
helm of this and I have lots of 

462
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:03,240
faith in them that I think some 
of their speed stuff is going to

463
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,920
get wild just because the people
that are there and they're 

464
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:10,560
willing to try things. 
But I think the training line 

465
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,520
has to be cautious given the 
demographic, their customer 

466
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,320
demographic. 
And so, yeah, you just have to 

467
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,320
know your customer. 
If your customer wants something

468
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,120
wild, yeah, you can go for it. 
But you have to be careful at 

469
00:23:22,120 --> 00:23:23,960
the same time. 
And this is marketing. 

470
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,080
This is not my expertise. 
So, you know, somebody in the 

471
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,560
comments can feel free to 
vivisect me and tell me I'm 

472
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,440
wrong. 
But yeah, at the end of the day,

473
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,720
these are companies meant to 
make profits, so you got to be 

474
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,640
paying attention to what your 
customer wants. 

475
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:41,280
And Brooks customer may not want
the most wild phone compared to 

476
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,520
Saucony. 
Now a Mizuno, you know, a 

477
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,720
Mizuno's doing crazy stuff like 
you have no idea what's going to

478
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:49,320
come out of them. 
And you're like, you used to be 

479
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,760
the conservative, things didn't 
change a lot and now we have no 

480
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,640
idea what's coming. 
So who knows? 

481
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,720
Different personalities over 
different times. 

482
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,720
But yeah, it's just interesting 
to watch. 

483
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,040
I'm not judging, I'm just 
watching. 

484
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,920
Awesome. 
Well, let's move on to our next 

485
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,720
main segment. 
But before we do that in for 

486
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:13,400
testing segment is always fueled
by scratch labs and Matt, we 

487
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,000
need to get your hands on it. 
But they didn't release limited 

488
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,600
edition watermelon, which you've
been complaining about on the 

489
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,840
regular. 
I think it's important to know 

490
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,040
that you're complaining did not 
get you this. 

491
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,400
So don't you don't have to keep 
complaining. 

492
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,800
They were planning to do this 
without your complaining, but if

493
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,080
you if you want to check out any
scratch lab stuff you can go to 

494
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,000
their website and you can use 
the code docs of running for 20%

495
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,400
off your first order. 
Wait, are they selling it on 

496
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,800
their website now? 
You'll have to check it out, 

497
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,400
maybe after the after we're done
recording. 

498
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:48,760
Matt. 
All of this is pretty important.

499
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,920
Oh, they are, they are. 
It's it's they're selling it 

500
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,120
right now. 
Wow, I didn't know that well so.

501
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:55,640
We might have to end the podcast
now. 

502
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,240
He's going to go on a shopping 
spree. 

503
00:24:57,360 --> 00:24:59,000
Man, that's important things to 
do. 

504
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,360
All right, wow, we are going to 
only available in 20 servings. 

505
00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:06,120
What a joke. 
Come on, you the Max. 

506
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:07,160
Eric. 
I'm done. 

507
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,960
Sorry Bugsy. 
We are now going to move into 

508
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,240
our fact or fiction segment. 
Again, this is where we bring a 

509
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:20,400
commonly held idea that is held 
among runners and we kind of 

510
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,880
talk about whether it warrants 
being held or if it's something 

511
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:25,520
we can change our perspective 
on. 

512
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:30,520
So the first statement, which is
either fact or fiction here, is 

513
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,560
that you should stretch before 
running. 

514
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,040
David, do you want to kick off 
this one? 

515
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:37,640
I. 
Don't like that question. 

516
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:49,120
Can I lead with that? 
I it's just like, obviously it 

517
00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:58,680
depends, right? 
But I'm going to say what you 

518
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,960
should do. 
I'm OK. 

519
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,640
I'm going to go with the fact on
this. 

520
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,360
And it's only because from a 
dynamic stretching standpoint, 

521
00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:10,040
warming up, getting your tissues
ready to go do something now, 

522
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,120
like doing static stretching can
be a detriment when you're 

523
00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:18,320
looking at powerful activities. 
I'm not saying go on a wall and 

524
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,600
go stretch your calf for three 
by one minute and then go run. 

525
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:23,200
That's not at all what I'm 
saying. 

526
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:24,760
That's the opposite of what I'm 
saying. 

527
00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:29,880
So it's very easy to take what 
I'm saying as a fact and flip it

528
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,240
in the wrong direction. 
But it let's say if you do some 

529
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,760
dynamic stretches, let's, I 
don't know, like you warm up 

530
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,000
your hip flexors, get into a hip
extension a little bit, maybe do

531
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,280
some hamstring scoops, walk on 
your heels, walk on your toes, 

532
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,600
do a little bit of like leg 
pulls, kind of get the abductors

533
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,080
moving. 
You can't help with some 

534
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,800
circulation and elasticity in 
the short term, which might make

535
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,960
your run feel better. 
It's what a lot of reason why 

536
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,160
you can think of it as like a 
warm up. 

537
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,440
And a lot of people will do 
dynamic hip mobility exercises 

538
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,280
or fire hydrants and things like
that where they're not 

539
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,200
necessarily like looking to 
strengthen. 

540
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,480
That's more to warm up and get 
things more mobile. 

541
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,280
And in that way, I'm a I'm a 
buyer. 

542
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:09,520
It's a fact. 
But yeah, is it? 

543
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,840
But again, is it necessary too? 
Like, probably not all the time,

544
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,880
you know, but I mean, if I'm 
going to pick one or the other, 

545
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,440
then I'm going to go with the 
side that probably does the 

546
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,400
better job with mobility, 
circulation and giving you a 

547
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:29,240
better experience on the run. 
I don't think that stretching is

548
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,360
a panacea. 
Like it's not this thing that's 

549
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:34,880
going to totally fix every 
problem or prevent every problem

550
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,120
from coming. 
But I, I would also say fact 

551
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:40,320
with you, David, I think that 
there is and, and stretching is 

552
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,720
one way to do your warm up. 
And I think we use that term 

553
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:48,360
warm up a lot just to give a 
little Physiology behind that. 

554
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,640
What happens when you do 
exercise or movement, dynamic 

555
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,600
stretching, swinging your legs 
or doing some toe walks, 

556
00:27:55,600 --> 00:28:01,240
whatever it is, you start to put
demand on tissues in your body. 

557
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,480
When your body's tissue start to
get demand, what happens is you 

558
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,760
need blood. 
So what happens is your blood 

559
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,560
vessels start to dilate. 
That brings more blood. 

560
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,520
And blood is warm. 
So it actually does bring heat 

561
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,480
to the area. 
It brings nutrients and when it 

562
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,720
brings heat, what happens to our
tissues is they do become more 

563
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,400
elastic and so then they're more
ready to go do something because

564
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,040
there's already blood flow 
there. 

565
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,640
There's more elasticity so 
they're less likely to get 

566
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,000
strained. 
So there's value in a warm up, 

567
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,960
especially when you are going to
be going and doing like a 

568
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,200
quality session and not just 
like an easy jog for 30 minutes 

569
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,480
or whatever it is. 
Having some sort of stretch 

570
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,120
dynamically, not like you said, 
not necessarily like a long 

571
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,440
static stretch, there's going to
be value there. 

572
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:52,280
I also think yes, there's you 
talked about the the power 

573
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,080
issue. 
So if you do long static 

574
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,040
stretching, there's been shown 
to be decreased power output. 

575
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,880
The impact of that on again, 
like an easy run is probably 

576
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:04,600
negligible. 
Like it's not going to hurt you 

577
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:09,000
to do static stretching for most
of us for most of our runs, but 

578
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,200
it also doesn't bring the 
benefits of a warm up as much as

579
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:16,080
actually putting like active 
demand through the tissues. 

580
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,320
So I agree with you, David. 
Matt, do you have anything else?

581
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,960
Yeah. 
No, I think what you all said is

582
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,720
totally true. 
And I, I totally agree that I 

583
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,560
think on the whole, you 
shouldn't look at static 

584
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,280
stretching as something that's 
going to kill you. 

585
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,640
However, for most people, it's 
probably not the best way to 

586
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,240
quote UN quote warm up because 
the goal with a true warm up is 

587
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:41,600
to get blood flow moving the 
tissues. 

588
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,280
And we have a another question 
coming up that'll say what about

589
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,520
right into the some more details
about this, about what a really 

590
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,920
what tissue you actually should 
be really focusing on for a warm

591
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,640
up. 
And it may not be the 

592
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,560
musculoskeletal system like that
is definitely part of it, 

593
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,760
especially if you're about redo 
intense exercise. 

594
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,000
If you're preparing for 
something, you should work your 

595
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,880
way up and prepare your body to 
be able to do if you're going to

596
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,840
do some kind of maximal effort. 
But for a lot of things, you're 

597
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:09,240
going out for a normal jog, 
normal run, that's probably not 

598
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,880
the most important thing. 
You're probably going to do 

599
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,880
better with more dynamic type 
things, even like a walk or even

600
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:17,880
like a slow jog. 
Just get some blood flow, the 

601
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,840
area, all things that are valid,
but honestly, you got to figure 

602
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,680
out works for you. 
And there's some people who they

603
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,000
found that there's certain 
things that were great and I'm 

604
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,120
going to have to eat my words 
because I, I, you know, I'm not 

605
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:28,640
eating my words. 
But say I'm talking about the 

606
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,200
general population. 
There are some individuals with 

607
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,920
certain pathologies that 
actually do quite well warming 

608
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,640
up with some static stretching 
and those that have like 

609
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,320
specific tissue mobility 
problems that like stiff is 

610
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,680
shortening and stiffening that 
can really help them get some 

611
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,080
better range. 
They can get the range of 

612
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,680
motion, but that's not a large 
portion of the population. 

613
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,840
Most people are going to do 
better with things that get your

614
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,680
blood flowing. 
So dynamic movements, things 

615
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,120
like that are probably going to 
be better as is just getting out

616
00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:59,680
there and moving. 
So it just depends on what you 

617
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,000
want. 
Great. 

618
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:03,520
All right, our next factor 
fiction. 

619
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,080
Compression socks are good for 
foot movement and muscles. 

620
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:10,640
So I'm going to jump on this 
false. 

621
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,000
Yeah, go for it. 
False. 

622
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,200
That's fiction. 
Yeah, fiction. 

623
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,400
I I totally get some people live
and die by their compression 

624
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,280
socks. 
My wife is one of those people 

625
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,400
and I'm not judging. 
However, we do have some 

626
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,720
evidence for Achilles 
tendinopathy, that it's not very

627
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,480
good because you get this 
excessive compression of the 

628
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,240
tendon and a lot of times that 
can be very irritable. 

629
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,400
It can actually be a risk factor
for developing irritable 

630
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,760
irritation in that area. 
Usually people actually have the

631
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,960
tendinopathy first, but getting 
it pissed off, that can be a 

632
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,280
risk factor. 
The other thing that I'm not the

633
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,640
biggest fan, I don't really have
evidence behind this is more 

634
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,200
testimonial is just especially 
when it comes to the foot. 

635
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,680
If you're someone that gets 
swelling in the area, totally 

636
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:50,720
makes sense. 
Great, that makes physiological 

637
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,320
sense, right? 
Can help with compression, helps

638
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,720
with that muscle pump to get 
blood flow like not pooling in 

639
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,400
the area. 
So like ultra marathon or stuff 

640
00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,000
where you get some swelling 
makes sense. 

641
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,240
However, the consequence of that
is it's going to crunch your 

642
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:03,800
toes and you don't have a lot of
movement. 

643
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,440
I'm someone personally, I do not
like that. 

644
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:07,800
I want my toes to be able to 
move. 

645
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:09,200
I don't like them being 
compressed. 

646
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:15,160
So is it good for them? 
I can't say yes or no, but is it

647
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:16,520
is it going to allow good 
movement? 

648
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:17,760
No. 
OK. 

649
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,880
Does keeping excessive swelling 
out of the area maybe help some 

650
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,360
people with the musculature? 
Maybe, but I'm going to go false

651
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:29,360
with that one. 
Yeah, I I can go next. 

652
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,320
Can you repeat the question one 
more time like the back the 

653
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:37,040
words? 
Yeah, factor fiction Compression

654
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,160
socks are good for foot movement
slash muscles. 

655
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:41,760
Yeah, I don't. 
I'm not sure I could word that 

656
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,920
much better than Matt did, 
honestly. 

657
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,520
I mean, you're kind of 
constricting the space down in 

658
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,040
it. 
Yeah, I don't know. 

659
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:50,600
I can't. 
I couldn't say it any better, 

660
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,560
especially with tendinopathies. 
Like, I was definitely going to 

661
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,360
say fiction. 
Yeah, so I'm a fiction on that. 

662
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,880
I just wanted to hear the words 
again more specifically, like if

663
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,320
there was some way I could twist
that, but. 

664
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,080
Yeah, there's going to be the 
populations where the 

665
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,440
compression is helpful, but 
that's usually some sort of 

666
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,000
Venus and fashion or something 
else, which, yeah, yeah, 

667
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,000
there's, there's other reasons, 
yeah. 

668
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,000
Vascular related, not 
necessarily muscle related, 

669
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,120
yeah. 
Not healthy, not healthy 

670
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,320
individuals necessarily, right? 
All right, well, let's move to 

671
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:24,400
our next one factor fiction. 
Putting a treadmill at 1% 

672
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,680
incline will make it replicate 
outdoor running. 

673
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,640
I'm going to be a false fiction.
Fiction on. 

674
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,200
That, yeah, sure. 
More because there's a belt, you

675
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,920
know, I understand the idea of 
negating the impact loading to 

676
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,280
be closer to the ground, but at 
the end of the day, you're 

677
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,880
keeping up with the pace and not
creating the pace, if that makes

678
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,200
sense. 
So like the normal amount of 

679
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,360
friction you'd get with the 
ground where you have to pull 

680
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,840
yourself forward, the belt is 
kind of creating that speed and 

681
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,200
you're going with it. 
And I noticed a lot of times at 

682
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,280
the same given pace, people 
might have a little bit more hip

683
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,200
extension, a little bit of a 
longer lopier stride on a 

684
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:03,800
treadmill than they would on the
road. 

685
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,960
Even if you raise the elevation 
a little bit, it might decrease 

686
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:12,239
the loading profile a little bit
or just change it slightly from 

687
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,040
a 0% grade to 1% grade. 
Of course you're changing the 

688
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:21,040
percent grade, but is it the 
same or make the changes that 

689
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:22,360
would be from running on the 
road? 

690
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,480
I don't think so. 
Yeah, and we had, we had Jeff 

691
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,679
Burns on this podcast a while 
ago, Physiologist works with the

692
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,000
Olympians and really awesome 
guy. 

693
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,400
But one of the things he talked 
about was the running economy 

694
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,239
differences between Overground 
and on the treadmill. 

695
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,199
And he's like, it's going to be 
easier on the treadmill. 

696
00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:46,040
So I think part of the idea 
behind this commonly held thing 

697
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,800
is like, oh, if we go to 1%, 
that'll make your treadmill 

698
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,159
running just a little bit harder
because you're going up 1%. 

699
00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:55,080
So that'll match the 
physiological demand. 

700
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,000
Now I have not looked at the 
research on that concept, so I 

701
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,720
can't speak to that. 
But one thing I'll say and then 

702
00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:04,040
I'll kick it to you, Matt, is I 
have, because I do a lot of 

703
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,280
running analysis. 
I've looked at the research 

704
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,520
behind what are the differences 
in kinematics, so like joint 

705
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,760
angles and kinetics like muscle 
activity or forces within the 

706
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,200
body. 
And the good thing for running 

707
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,120
analysis on treadmills is that 
you're pretty similar from a 

708
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,280
joint angles perspective. 
Like things look pretty similar 

709
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,720
overgrown on the treadmill. 
What's different is the kinetics

710
00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:32,840
like what's happening with like 
the forces inside the the body 

711
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,680
and the muscles, like there's 
more hamstring use, for example,

712
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:41,560
on treadmills typically. 
And so my point in that is by 

713
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:46,480
changing 1%, that's not going to
really alter the kinetics and 

714
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,800
kinematics. 
I, I think in a meaningful way 

715
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,560
to make it the same as outdoor. 
I think we just have to accept 

716
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,720
that they're slightly different 
and you're going to get a lot of

717
00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:58,000
the similar benefits of just 
cardiovascular exercise, But 

718
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,880
it's, it's just going to be, 
it's going to be unique, but 

719
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,440
there's differences between like
it being the same from a running

720
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,000
efficiency or difficulty 
standpoint and kinetics and 

721
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:09,840
kinematics. 
Now what were you going to say? 

722
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,160
Yeah, I mean, if you're putting 
work on the treadmill, work is 

723
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,040
work, but you got to realize 
it's it is not it's not exactly 

724
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,600
the same. 
And so so the research out there

725
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,040
is all over the place. 
People still getting each others

726
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,480
throats over this. 
Like there's been some pretty 

727
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:27,320
fun arguments at conferences 
that I've gotten to witness at 

728
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,840
some recent bio mechanics stuff 
and like, cool, somebody has a 

729
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,440
strong opinion. 
If you ask most people and say 

730
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:39,120
it's close enough from, you 
know, the kinematics, the a, the

731
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,360
joint angles, yes, there's some 
slight differences in tip 

732
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,200
extension, but it's not, it's 
not massive. 

733
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,720
It might be for some people and 
that might be person specific. 

734
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,720
We do also know that people that
have that spend more time in the

735
00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:53,320
air tend to be more efficient on
treadmills versus those that 

736
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,000
have like longer ground contact 
time hierarchy, like cadence 

737
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,160
stuff can sometimes be a little 
bit less. 

738
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,320
So there's, there's going to be,
there's differences. 

739
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,080
I will say the thing that people
haven't looked at as well is how

740
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,280
your nervous system responds. 
And what's great about 

741
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,640
treadmills, as I say this as a 
biomechanist, it's very 

742
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,760
consistent, right? 
So from a testing standpoint, it

743
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,760
makes it really easy to go, 
we're going to get the same 

744
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,520
thing. 
We can get rid of air. 

745
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,960
The problem is when you go out 
on the road, it's all 

746
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,480
inconsistency. 
It's all you actually having to 

747
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:25,600
adapt. 
And I say this as somebody who 

748
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,640
got to experience this for real,
where I've been doing all my 

749
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,520
workouts on the treadmill, doing
easy runs on the road. 

750
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:37,360
And then I went to go run a very
hilly, very like like banked 

751
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,720
course and I could not keep pace
because I was and I had a super 

752
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:45,280
soft shoe I was testing and. 
Is this your race recently? 

753
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,160
Yeah, it was the reason, yeah. 
And I was sick. 

754
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,280
So yeah, that I'm still 
recovering from 2 weeks later. 

755
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,480
Oh yeah, it was just a lesson, 
even though I hated myself in 

756
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,520
the moment going, wow, that was 
not there. 

757
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,480
There was enough of a difference
because it's such 2 extremes 

758
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,040
that like, yeah, they, they are 
different. 

759
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,800
I don't think they're, they're 
different in a way people don't 

760
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,160
realize and people don't usually
think about the nervous system 

761
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,680
in your ability to like motor 
planning and adaptability and 

762
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,480
how you adapt to surfaces and 
how you respond to that, how you

763
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,120
stiffen, all things like that. 
I think that's where the major 

764
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,320
difference is because the 
treadmill is the exact same 

765
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:23,840
unless there are some treadmills
out there that have unique belts

766
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,720
that are like slight variations 
of almost like emulate trails. 

767
00:38:27,720 --> 00:38:30,280
Yeah, I was. 
Thinking the one that goes with 

768
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,080
you like that, that's cool. 
I. 

769
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,760
Really, I mean, while if you're 
listening, I would love to test 

770
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:36,880
one of those. 
I really, I don't want to spend 

771
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:43,240
$7000 on it, but I'm enjoying my
like $900, whatever it's called 

772
00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:45,240
Reebok treadmill, it's been 
solid. 

773
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,480
It's good, goes 450 pace. 
But yeah, it's not exactly the 

774
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,520
same because your nervous system
has two different responses and 

775
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:53,960
that takes a lot of energy. 
Your nervous system uses a lot 

776
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:55,640
of energy and that's something 
adaptability. 

777
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,240
It's that's why Rd. versus cross
country gives me two different 

778
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:01,720
things, two different ways of 
adapting. 

779
00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:06,240
So yeah, the 1% is not really 
going to be enough if you're 

780
00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:11,200
running a race or doing efforts 
on flat Rd. maybe, but you're 

781
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,960
still missing the adaptability 
component that your body has to 

782
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:15,440
be able to go through. 
For sure. 

783
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:18,520
All right, next one factor 
fiction. 

784
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,800
Overtraining is usually a 
nutrition problem. 

785
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,640
Oh, can I get at this? 
Can I start? 

786
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,560
Sure. 
I I think that's totally false. 

787
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,720
I, I can see to some degree yes,
but it doesn't matter how much 

788
00:39:31,720 --> 00:39:35,040
you eat and how much you sleep. 
There is there's a limit to 

789
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,920
tissue adaptability. 
And I think most people like 

790
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,880
realistically like yes, 
overtraining. 

791
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:46,040
If you back the training off and
really get your nutrition, it 

792
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,920
may help reduce some of the 
symptoms associated with 

793
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:54,920
overtraining syndrome. 
But overtraining is a lot more 

794
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:59,320
complex than just calories in. 
And yeah, it's a very big 

795
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,000
component. 
You need to be eating enough, 

796
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,160
and that can certainly be a 
major risk factor. 

797
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,960
But there's other portions to 
that that you need to make. 

798
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,440
You can only go as fast as your 
body can adapt. 

799
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:15,920
If I could reference a article 
written by Regina's coach Rick 

800
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,200
Lovett, who coaches for Team Red
Lizard. 

801
00:40:19,720 --> 00:40:22,760
Awesome dude was really and kind
of woke me up when I was reading

802
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:24,960
a stuff going man, I've been 
like overtraining. 

803
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,200
I've been training it way faster
than where my body is able to 

804
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,000
handle. 
And that's probably why I'm not 

805
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:31,280
getting faster. 
It's always probably what 

806
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,440
contributed to me getting sick 
on top of a lot of life stress. 

807
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,040
And so that's just an example of
it wouldn't matter how much I 

808
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,800
ate. 
Like there's so many other 

809
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,960
factors influencing this that 
yeah, you need to train where 

810
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,640
you're at and then slowly 
progress up, not necessarily 

811
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:47,920
jump right to where you want to 
be. 

812
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,520
So nutrition is a very important
component. 

813
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,880
It's not the only component. 
So you can't out eat 

814
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,240
overtraining. 
I agree, Yeah, Yeah, it's a 

815
00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:00,680
fiction. 
I think it's very easy to look 

816
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:01,640
at it. 
I think I know where they're 

817
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,640
going with this where like a lot
of people do develop Reds 

818
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,760
relative energy deficient 
syndrome, and that's a very real

819
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,240
thing. 
And people can obviously develop

820
00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:13,400
that if they're not getting in 
enough intake to match their 

821
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,080
training load and there's an 
imbalance in the energy coming 

822
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,560
in versus the energy going out. 
That is very real. 

823
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,520
But I agree, mechanical tissue 
tolerance is still a very real 

824
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,720
thing and probably the largest 
contributing factor for most 

825
00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:29,400
overuse injuries. 
Overtraining is overtraining. 

826
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,120
You're just doing too much that 
you're not quite ready for. 

827
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,960
And if you're coming back around
and trying to do another load 

828
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,240
that you're not quite ready to 
do, you're just going to dig a 

829
00:41:40,240 --> 00:41:43,520
slightly dip deeper and deeper 
hole until you've got a well and

830
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:44,760
now you got to get out of it 
right. 

831
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:49,000
And it the only way out of it is
just rest and like let the 

832
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:53,280
tissue come back down and then 
obviously see APT and or a 

833
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:54,800
health professional for whatever
you need. 

834
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,920
But like a bones, well, I don't 
wanna go down that rabbit hole. 

835
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,200
But you can't. 
Out eat you can't out eat a bone

836
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:04,440
stress injury. 
But it can help. 

837
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:05,800
It can, and there's a 
difference. 

838
00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:08,320
Decrease the risk factors. 
Once it's there. 

839
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:09,560
You're not. 
It's from a mechanical load, 

840
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:10,080
yeah. 
What? 

841
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,640
Anyways, mechanical loads, 
sorry, mechanical loads. 

842
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,280
Life stress is life stress. 
You're getting better factorial.

843
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:23,040
I think you need to look at it 
from like a biopsychosocial Ave.

844
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,720
from a bunch of different lenses
and not just if I eat and sleep 

845
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:30,040
a bunch, then I'll I can take on
the world. 

846
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,680
Another example is me, right? 
Recently, I probably was not, I,

847
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:38,680
I was not in shape to run a 
marathon like not that long ago.

848
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,400
And I was like, oh, well, I 
mean, I could probably like I've

849
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:42,640
been doing this long, long 
enough. 

850
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,320
I know I can run 19 miles. 
OK, I go run 19. 

851
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:47,880
OK, I know I can run 22. 
OK, I go run 22. 

852
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,880
OK, I, I, I know I can run 26. 
I go run 26. 

853
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:53,760
My foot's not that happy 
afterwards, right? 

854
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,120
Like, because I wasn't having 
consistent mileage going into 

855
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,720
that and I wasn't at a place 
where, like, running a marathon 

856
00:42:59,720 --> 00:43:04,080
would make sense when my mileage
was probably 20 mile weeks, you 

857
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,160
know, across a few times a week.
That's a mechanical stress. 

858
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:11,880
I ate fine, I slept fine. 
My foot still hurts so. 

859
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:16,560
What I was going to say about 
this prompt is that you could 

860
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,040
basically insert anything else 
in for nutrition. 

861
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,640
I would probably say to some 
extent, I would probably say 

862
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,600
fiction for all of them because 
it's an oversimplified 

863
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:28,720
statement. 
As you all just talked about, 

864
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:33,480
overtraining is going to be very
much related to the mixture of 

865
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,160
things because if you're not 
eating at all and you run what 

866
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,320
looks like a not a lot, that's 
going to be overtraining because

867
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,960
it's higher than the capacity 
that your body has because of 

868
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,240
the interaction between those 
multiple factors. 

869
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:47,160
So I think it's just too 
simplistic to say one thing. 

870
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,680
I think I also though do agree 
with you. 

871
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,200
If I were to insert something, 
it would be like running volume 

872
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,240
problem for overtraining. 
I also think there's a 

873
00:43:57,240 --> 00:43:59,680
difference between or intensity,
yes. 

874
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,480
And I guess volume was 
encapsulating frequency, 

875
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,040
intensity and duration. 
So I was getting that in there 

876
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:11,480
just sneak it in. 
But I, I think there's also a 

877
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,640
difference between like 
overtraining syndrome and 

878
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,200
overuse injury. 
So I, in my mind, I was going 

879
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,280
towards like overtraining 
syndrome where like you don't 

880
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:24,200
get hurt, but you just have this
multi system kind of shut down 

881
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:27,200
where you just have no energy. 
You can't really feel like you 

882
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,480
can push the pace anymore. 
You lose a lot. 

883
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,600
And I think, I think that 
they're that that one's really 

884
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,640
multifactorial more so even than
like overuse injuries. 

885
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,800
I think overuse injuries again 
are multifactorial. 

886
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,200
But if you go and you just like,
you know, if I went out and I 

887
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,240
just tried to run a marathon 
today, that that's obviously 

888
00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:50,960
going to land me an injury like 
it will today, especially since 

889
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:52,680
I'm coming back from a bone 
stress injury. 

890
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,560
But yeah, I think overtraining 
syndrome is distinct from 

891
00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:59,840
overuse injuries in this 
conversation. 

892
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,320
What? 
If you, instead of taking gels, 

893
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,440
take milk while you run the 
marathon. 

894
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:07,840
Oh my gosh, I'd probably throw 
up. 

895
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,040
I'm sorry. 
Continue the conversation. 

896
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:11,760
Yeah. 
Chelsea. 

897
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:13,600
Though that would prevent the 
bone. 

898
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:18,120
Stress and your 'cause that 
caused me physical pain to. 

899
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,640
Think I'm sorry I'm. 
So sorry, that would be so 

900
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:22,680
gross. 
It's like a milk challenge but 

901
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,440
while you run a marathon. 
Someone please do not do that. 

902
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,320
Hopefully I did not just like 
spark some inspiration and 

903
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,120
someone. 
Don't inspire somebody. 

904
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,040
Do not inspire this. 
David, if you thought you had GI

905
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,760
problems with more team, imagine
team. 

906
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:37,720
That's the first. 
Number to pronounce that way. 

907
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:43,080
Am I pronounced as? 
Morton, OH. 

908
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,440
Man. 
Hey, you've gotten Kayano 

909
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,920
figured out, which I've been 
bummed about, so it's good that 

910
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:49,160
you have something new. 
We'll start. 

911
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:50,720
No. 
I also have Gavoida. 

912
00:45:50,720 --> 00:45:51,800
Which gaviota? 
Damn. 

913
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:52,800
It. 
No. 

914
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,160
Yeah, it's Gaviota. 
Just up the coast, can't. 

915
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:59,240
Figure that one out either. 
All right, let's move to the 

916
00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:02,200
next one here. 
We've had a lot of fictions. 

917
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,560
The next one that somebody asked
was this speed work is still 

918
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:11,200
good to do for senior runners. 
They put in ( 60 plus 

919
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,440
recreational. 
Matt doesn't have an opinion on 

920
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:15,520
this. 
David, why don't, I'm just 

921
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,200
kidding, Matt, you can go first.
It's not like all the research 

922
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:19,920
I've published in the last, you 
know, couple years. 

923
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,280
I think this is an absolute 
truth. 

924
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,760
I think in fact, as you get old,
you have to be smart about this 

925
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,200
because as you get older, 
obviously this is the area that 

926
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,040
a lot of the this is. 
I don't have evidence on this. 

927
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,240
I'm saying this from patients 
have talked, clients have talked

928
00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:38,400
about like, Yep, it was that 
like fast run. 

929
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,560
I'm like, Yep. 
So I, I do think this is super 

930
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,720
important for a couple reasons. 
1, you are losing speed probably

931
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:48,800
and your ability speed and 
power, you're losing that fast 

932
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:50,160
and any other function as you 
get older. 

933
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:51,720
So I think it's incredibly 
important. 

934
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,600
I also think it's very important
to do just enough. 

935
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,600
And I think when you're younger,
sometimes you can get away with 

936
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,880
a little bit more. 
When you are older, less is 

937
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:02,800
more. 
You should absolutely do it, but

938
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:07,160
work your way into it and cut it
off before you order. 

939
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:10,080
Every single person that I have 
a lot of people that go, oh, I 

940
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:11,920
was, it was happened during a 
track workout. 

941
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:13,800
It's always, I just did that 
extra Rep. 

942
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,800
So yes, it's super important. 
You need to do it. 

943
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:18,160
It's the thing you're losing 
quickest. 

944
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,600
You can build it back. 
Just be smart about how you 

945
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:25,640
integrate it into your training.
Incredibly important from a not 

946
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:28,160
only just a muscle, muscle, 
muscle standpoint, but bone 

947
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:31,360
health, like range of motion, 
all kinds of stuff. 

948
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:35,320
So yes, absolute truth. 
Yeah, speed and power can only 

949
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:36,600
help you. 
Perfect. 

950
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,600
Let's move on. 
Matt, we just let you take that 

951
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,480
one. 
All right, let's go to the next 

952
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:42,800
one. 
We actually have two 

953
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:44,760
back-to-back. 
So I'm going to throw these two 

954
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:48,120
out there at the same time 
because they have similar and 

955
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:52,200
opposing statements and a little
bit cohesive in the way that 

956
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:54,720
they're written. 
So the first one is fact or 

957
00:47:54,720 --> 00:47:58,000
fiction. 
Having high arches means I need 

958
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,680
arch support and then the next 
one factor. 

959
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,280
Fiction. 
Barefoot shoes are good for 

960
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:07,600
people with flat feet. 
I take the first one. 

961
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:11,480
Go for it. 
I'm just going to say fiction to

962
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:15,360
both because the way things look
statically is not how they move 

963
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:17,600
dynamically. 
Someone could have high arches 

964
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:22,080
and stay supinated and be really
locked out and giving them a 

965
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,880
bunch of arch support could only
push them more laterally and 

966
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,280
irritate things more. 
Someone who has flat feet can do

967
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:32,440
a great job of stabilizing their
foot and may not need oh wait 

968
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:33,760
well they're saying barefoot 
right? 

969
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:35,360
So they're they're going the 
opposite way with it. 

970
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,400
Like wider platforms, not 
stability. 

971
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:43,480
Either way, the are there's way 
too many factors and the way we 

972
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:47,160
act dynamically is not at all 
reflective of how things look 

973
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:52,720
statically most of the time. 
I also with, you know, Jana, my 

974
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:56,600
wife, she has flat feet and 
there have been a lot of things 

975
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:59,800
that I thought would fit her 
well or that like, I just, I've 

976
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:05,040
been wrong a lot with her and 
with other patients too. 

977
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,840
And, and I think that through 
those experiences, I've learned 

978
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:11,680
that the matching of a shoe and 
foot type, if research doesn't 

979
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:15,240
already tell us this enough, it 
just does not work to look at a 

980
00:49:15,240 --> 00:49:17,520
static foot posture and then 
match a shoe to it. 

981
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:20,600
So there isn't, it's one of 
those words like having high 

982
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:22,040
Archers means I need Archer 
support. 

983
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:25,360
Maybe go try it out, you know, 
like see if it works. 

984
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:27,920
And I hate how simplistic that 
is sometimes. 

985
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,960
Or what I should say is I think 
sometimes people get frustrated 

986
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,600
at how simplistic that answer 
is, but it really is the answer.

987
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:36,440
And you don't, you might not 
even know if it works, 

988
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:40,840
unfortunately, the first time 
you buy a shoe that feels good 

989
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,240
in the store, Like it might take
time experiencing it and failing

990
00:49:44,240 --> 00:49:47,240
and it not being exactly right 
and trying something new the 

991
00:49:47,240 --> 00:49:49,480
next time. 
But you shouldn't wholesale one 

992
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:51,360
way or the other for sure. 
Matt, do you have anything to 

993
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,960
add? 
Yeah, the evidence there is 

994
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:56,960
extensive evidence, like the 
studies that have been done have

995
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,560
been military studies where they
have thousands of subjects. 

996
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:03,760
So the power, the subject power 
is phenomenal on these studies. 

997
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:08,480
And the the conclusion over and 
over and over again is that 

998
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:13,040
prescribing footwear or support 
based on static arch height is 

999
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:19,080
absolutely invalid, not 
reliable, smelly hot garbage. 

1000
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:24,000
You should. 
I was expecting a different word

1001
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:25,920
when I said absolute. 
Yeah. 

1002
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:32,120
So, yeah, absolute garbage. 
So and for that reason, right. 

1003
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:36,320
So based on that, based on the 
typical traditional way is 

1004
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,520
somebody with flat feet should 
have arch support, Somebody with

1005
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:43,040
high arches should not. 
And you'll see lots of people 

1006
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:45,760
that actually would have high 
arches and they love arch 

1007
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:47,160
support. 
And it's like, that's 

1008
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,360
interesting. 
But you can have a static foot 

1009
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,440
posture type and that doesn't 
tell you exactly how what's 

1010
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:54,920
going to move. 
One of my frustrations right now

1011
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,280
with the current orthopedic, 
current concepts for physical 

1012
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,480
therapy is the foot and ankle. 
They love the foot posture 

1013
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:02,080
index. 
And it's this like static 

1014
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:04,520
posture thing. 
And I get, I think it's a great 

1015
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,040
tool to teach students to just 
kind of get used to posture and 

1016
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,360
stuff, but it doesn't look at 
how you move. 

1017
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:11,760
And so David hit that in the 
head that you can look at 

1018
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:13,840
somebody statically. 
It's a good place to create some

1019
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:17,240
hypothesis, but you don't know 
anything until you watch them 

1020
00:51:17,240 --> 00:51:18,680
move and watch how they 
function. 

1021
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:24,080
So I think, yeah, go for it. 
I was just going to say with, I 

1022
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:25,960
feel like there's going to be 
like one person that knows what 

1023
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:29,040
we're talking about with the 
current concepts, but but I'm 

1024
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:30,480
going to make a comment on that 
too. 

1025
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:32,880
What I what I appreciate, 
because I agree. 

1026
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,360
They talk about it a lot. 
What I appreciate. 

1027
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:38,200
Everything. 
It's like everything FPI and I'm

1028
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:39,480
like, can we talk about 
something else? 

1029
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:43,040
Well what I appreciate though is
that they never ever use it in 

1030
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:45,720
isolation. 
It's always within a cluster of 

1031
00:51:45,720 --> 00:51:48,920
like 7 other findings to help 
come up with movement system 

1032
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,680
diagnosis, which are based like,
oh, you're having this kind of 

1033
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:54,880
pain. 
Let's look at your range of 

1034
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:57,880
motion here, your static foot 
posture combined with your 

1035
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:01,080
history of activity combined 
with and they, they do that. 

1036
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:05,200
And so they use it as like one 
of, you know, six data points. 

1037
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:09,280
So, and that's what the where, 
that's why I think that's 

1038
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:10,760
important. 
And I know people don't know the

1039
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:14,120
current concepts, but what's 
important is that if you go to a

1040
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:18,200
store or if you go see a PT or 
anybody who just looks at your 

1041
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,080
foot posture and say, because of
your foot posture, we're going 

1042
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:24,920
to get you in this kind of a 
shoe that's not valuable because

1043
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:29,480
that like even when it's used, 
And I would say the foot posture

1044
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:31,760
index, if there's a way to look 
at static foot posture, it's a 

1045
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,240
pretty decent way to do it 
because it's pretty systematic. 

1046
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:38,000
But but even that alone just 
falls super short. 

1047
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:41,520
And there's no way that these 
stores or most people are 

1048
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:42,800
actually doing a foot posture 
index. 

1049
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:44,760
They're just going to look at 
your foot and say, Oh, it's flat

1050
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:47,560
or it's like a very subjective 
thing. 

1051
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:51,440
It's just not enough. 
Even if they even if they do the

1052
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:53,320
foot posture index, it's not 
enough. 

1053
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:54,840
And we know it doesn't pair you 
anyway. 

1054
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:59,000
So yeah, fiction, the things 
that are going. 

1055
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,240
To you said this and totally 
right where it's like you need 

1056
00:53:01,240 --> 00:53:03,520
to look at the history go, hey, 
do you have a history of like 

1057
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,760
pronation or supination related 
type injuries, right? 

1058
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:10,600
Do you have this pathology that 
maybe because you have a history

1059
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:13,760
of this, we know that in the 
future that that typically if 

1060
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:17,720
you help not correct, but maybe 
support that kind of thing, you 

1061
00:53:17,720 --> 00:53:19,520
people typically tend to do 
better. 

1062
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,000
So you can't look at them in the
moment. 

1063
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:24,600
You have to look kind of where 
they've been, what's their 

1064
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:26,800
history and where are they now 
and kind of integrate all that 

1065
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:30,040
together before you start, you 
know, going, oh, you need this 

1066
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:31,400
arch support, you need this 
shoe. 

1067
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:33,720
It's it's more complex than 
that. 

1068
00:53:33,720 --> 00:53:36,440
And preferably you give them 
some options and let them figure

1069
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:37,800
it out. 
Like you said, some trial and 

1070
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:39,520
are going what's most 
comfortable, what actually works

1071
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:42,600
on the walk or on the run. 
And so, yeah. 

1072
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:44,760
Yeah. 
All right. 

1073
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:50,000
Our next one is that skipping 
the warm up in the cool down 

1074
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:53,000
increases injury risk. 
And so this is kind of circling 

1075
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:54,960
back to that conversation before
Matt. 

1076
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:56,960
So I'll let you kick it off 
because you had some things you 

1077
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:58,680
wanted to say. 
Yeah. 

1078
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:01,760
So for anybody who knows who 
Greg Lehman is, he's a physio 

1079
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:05,760
Cairo out of I believe, Canada, 
who's got some great stuff. 

1080
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:07,880
There's a lot of stuff on pain 
science and it's really 

1081
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:10,840
interesting and always 
challenges some like ideas that 

1082
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:13,840
like commonly held beliefs. 
There was a big thread that he 

1083
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:17,280
was talking about arguing that, 
you know, warmups don't 

1084
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:20,720
necessarily prevent 
musculoskeletal injury for a lot

1085
00:54:20,720 --> 00:54:22,800
of things like going for a jog, 
for example. 

1086
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:26,600
And so I think there is a little
validity to that. 

1087
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:29,240
However, I think you're like 
going for a jog. 

1088
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:31,560
Yeah. 
Like the the jog might be the 

1089
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:33,000
warm up. 
And that might be just the best 

1090
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,120
way for other people may need 
to, they have certain 

1091
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:36,880
pathologies, certain things they
know work for them. 

1092
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:39,120
Yeah. 
Get the dynamic warm up, stuff 

1093
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,760
like that might be helpful to 
prime like warm things up and 

1094
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:44,240
get ready. 
To be honest with you, the warm 

1095
00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:47,520
up is most important not for 
your musculoskeletal system, but

1096
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:51,280
for your cardiovascular system. 
We know that you have increased 

1097
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,320
like arrhythmias and different 
heart, abnormal heart rhythms. 

1098
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:58,520
If you don't get at least like 3
to 5 minutes of good kind of 

1099
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,160
warm up, getting blood flowing 
to not prep your muscles, but to

1100
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:05,320
get your, I mean it is a muscle,
but to get your heart ready for 

1101
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,440
what you're about ready to do. 
And that's like something times 

1102
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:10,720
it's something as easy as a walk
actually can be a really great 

1103
00:55:10,720 --> 00:55:14,240
tool to warm this up. 
And I've had lots of people come

1104
00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:16,480
to me and go, hey, I got this 
weird thing. 

1105
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:19,000
I think it's thoracic pain. 
I'm like, dude, I think it's 

1106
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,280
your heart. 
Have you tried actually warming 

1107
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:23,760
up and cooling down? 
Like, no, why would I do that? 

1108
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:25,040
And they do that like, oh, it's 
gone. 

1109
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:29,800
I'm like, so I think it's most 
important for your 

1110
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,840
cardiovascular system 
musculoskeletal wise. 

1111
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:36,120
If you are getting ready to do 
something hard, you need to warm

1112
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:38,720
your system up. 
You need to prep it for getting 

1113
00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:40,920
ready to do that thing. 
But if you're getting ready to 

1114
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:44,760
do an easy light set of 
exercise, that might be, you can

1115
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:45,920
just go into that, do the warm 
up. 

1116
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:49,240
So I think it varies, but if I 
was going to tell you what it's 

1117
00:55:49,240 --> 00:55:51,360
most important for, I'm less 
worried about the 

1118
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:53,280
musculoskeletal system. 
I'm more worried about your 

1119
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,760
cardiovascular system. 
David, what do you think? 

1120
00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:57,600
I'm not sure I have much more to
add. 

1121
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:00,120
I think intensity is very 
dependent here. 

1122
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:04,160
Like if you go in cold and you 
just go sprinting, the chances 

1123
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:07,640
of having a hamstring strain 
probably goes up considerably, 

1124
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:08,320
right? 
Yeah. 

1125
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:12,040
But if you just go out shuffling
for an easy jog might not be 

1126
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:17,800
that much different. 
So I think intensity very it is 

1127
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:21,400
the main driver of this, be it 
cardiovascular, neuromuscular, 

1128
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:25,640
musculoskeletal, if you and 
truth be told, you know, a lot 

1129
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:28,680
of times when I go out for easy 
runs, I don't usually do a warm 

1130
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:32,080
up when I go out. 
And if I'm going to hit the 

1131
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:35,360
track, oh, you better believe 
I'm doing some skips and leg 

1132
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:38,240
swings and strides. 
I'm not going fast unless I've 

1133
00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:39,600
at least warmed it up a little 
bit. 

1134
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,800
And that's very intentional. 
And it also just like it makes 

1135
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:48,480
you feel a lot better too, like 
you don't feel as like flat and 

1136
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:51,800
like everything goes easier when
your nervous system, your 

1137
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:54,920
cardiovascular system, 
musculoskeletal system, like 

1138
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:58,560
everything's primed to go and do
the thing, right. 

1139
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:04,160
Does it decrease injury risk 
for, like, easier activities? 

1140
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,080
I don't. 
I haven't seen anything that 

1141
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:11,680
says that it does. 
But as far as like high impact, 

1142
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:17,840
high speed things, yeah. 
And maybe it is it performance? 

1143
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:18,680
Right. 
Exactly. 

1144
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:21,880
An injury risk is such a hard 
thing to measure and isolate, 

1145
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:23,080
right? 
Yeah, there's no. 

1146
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:24,320
Good studies on that. 
Yeah. 

1147
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:27,320
I mean, that's also performance 
is easy to measure. 

1148
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:30,320
You just go have do a time 
trial, standardize it, do some 

1149
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:35,440
random RCT style stuff like you 
could easily get a relatively 

1150
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:37,920
decent performance study done 
and that's why a lot of them are

1151
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:40,520
on performance study. 
But injury risk is much, much 

1152
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:44,120
harder to quantify. 
It's funny, I've talked to a lot

1153
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:46,840
of high up researchers and be 
like, hey, I remember when I was

1154
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,360
like a new graduate and asking 
dumb questions and I was like, 

1155
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:51,760
why can't you we do this injury 
study and every single one of 

1156
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:53,480
them look at me like, you don't 
get it. 

1157
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:55,520
Do you? 
Like if the injury stuff is 

1158
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:59,760
really hard to do, one of my, 
the Co faculty, they work with 

1159
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,720
Gabe, doctor Gabe Haberly put it
this way where he was like, 

1160
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:05,000
yeah, what are you going to do? 
Just you test people. 

1161
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,240
Then you just wait around for 
them to get hurt and hope they 

1162
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:08,560
get hurt. 
So you have some data and you're

1163
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:11,240
like, well, that's an 
interesting way of putting that.

1164
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:13,640
Yeah. 
It's really hard to do that kind

1165
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:17,480
of research all. 
Right, we got one more for the 

1166
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:18,400
night. 
Are we ready? 

1167
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:25,200
Running with a quote. 
Soft landing makes you more 

1168
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:28,120
efficient and reduces injury 
risk. 

1169
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:33,520
We just keep the injury risk. 
Hey, that's what people are 

1170
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:35,040
curious about. 
Like are these true? 

1171
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:38,040
Anecdotally, for some people it 
increases it because you start 

1172
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:40,680
changing the way you're running 
if you don't run that way 

1173
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:44,080
naturally. 
Yeah, the the the challenge is, 

1174
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:46,880
by the way, like talking from 
like bone related stuff, like 

1175
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:49,640
somewhat, yes, but with recent 
evidence and Nathan, correct me 

1176
00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:52,320
if I'm on this, this on my 
wrong, if I'm wrong, is that 

1177
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:55,440
actually the things that create 
the greatest stresses and forces

1178
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:57,640
of the bones are not the ground 
reaction force from the ground, 

1179
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:00,200
but the muscles actually 
contracting on the bone, 

1180
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:02,960
Correct. 
So landing if we're bone stress 

1181
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:05,520
injuries, right. 
So I don't. 

1182
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:07,200
Yeah. 
I mean, there's also some 

1183
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:09,600
evidence that ground reaction 
forces are actually related to 

1184
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:13,120
running injuries, that it's more
complex than that. 

1185
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:16,360
And Laurent Maslow was trying to
explain it to me one time when I

1186
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:18,920
was doing a podcast with him 
while it was like 3:00 in the 

1187
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:20,600
morning here. 
And so it may have gone over my 

1188
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:23,800
head, but. 
Yeah, he's a great researcher. 

1189
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:26,200
You've got the record for early.
I think with this so there's. 

1190
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:33,480
I did the 5:00 AM one that one 
time. 3:00 AM is right, yeah. 

1191
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:38,360
So, Nathan. 
Yeah, I, I think that there's a 

1192
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:42,800
number of factors here. 
I don't, we do not have the 

1193
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:46,760
literature out there again to 
definitively talk about injury 

1194
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:49,760
risk. 
The research we have out looks 

1195
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:53,960
at the changes in ground 
reaction forces, also looking at

1196
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:57,600
the rate at which those forces 
get to their Max amount. 

1197
00:59:57,920 --> 00:59:59,040
That's the kind of stuff we 
have. 

1198
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:03,200
It's biomechanical, it's not 
actual injury, and it's all 

1199
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:07,120
short term, not long term. 
Most of the gate. 

1200
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:11,600
Most of the gate. 
And it's all done the lab by 

1201
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:12,560
the. 
Way and it's done. 

1202
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:15,680
Online. 
Most of the gate retraining 

1203
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:19,280
studies are usually on cadence. 
That's the most common. 

1204
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:23,720
But there was a study in 2024 
where they did have people run 

1205
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:26,840
with this soft queue and they 
were looking at these different 

1206
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:31,200
biomechanical markers. 
So one of them that they looked 

1207
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:34,280
at was ground reaction forces. 
So what's the total force that 

1208
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:37,080
goes through the body? 
If you've heard us talk about 

1209
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:39,880
this before, it shouldn't be a 
shock to you that whether they 

1210
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:44,560
ran with their shoes with their 
normal gait, with their shoes 

1211
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:48,400
with the cue to run soft, or if 
they ran barefoot with the cue 

1212
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:51,600
to run on their forefoot, the 
total ground reaction force was 

1213
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:54,200
just, there is no significant 
difference between any of those.

1214
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:58,560
The total force was the same. 
What was different between the 

1215
01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:03,120
normal running gate with shoes 
and then both of the other was 

1216
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:07,640
the rate at which you got to 
that maximum force. 

1217
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:12,400
So there was a decreased loading
rate in the other two categories

1218
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:16,200
that does not tell us anything 
about injury rates. 

1219
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:19,920
That does mean that you might be
under load more over time 

1220
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:23,720
because with the queue to run 
softer, there was not like an 

1221
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:26,520
increase in cadence. 
So your ground reaction time 

1222
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:28,360
didn't change. 
You may have gone, they didn't 

1223
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:32,240
report or I didn't read enough 
to see like the joint angle 

1224
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:35,600
excursion and like how much like
there's there's a lot of other 

1225
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:37,560
changes that are leading to 
these loading rates. 

1226
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:42,520
So we definitely can't answer 
the question about injury risk 

1227
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:44,800
and I don't think we have enough
to say you everyone should start

1228
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:48,880
running with a soft gate. 
What I feel relatively 

1229
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:51,400
comfortable making a risk at 
saying is that running with a 

1230
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:53,920
soft gate will definitely not 
make you more efficient. 

1231
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:58,320
More efficient runners have a 
stiffer limb because it's a more

1232
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:01,280
efficient spring. 
So like as you run faster, your 

1233
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:04,720
leg actually is more stiff off 
the ground and much like 

1234
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:07,320
bouncier. 
Whereas if you are running 

1235
01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:11,320
softer, it's actually I would be
venturing to guess that it's 

1236
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:16,960
going to make you less efficient
and unknown on the injury rates 

1237
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:19,360
perspective. 
I bet like David said, long term

1238
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:21,240
if you change your gait 
drastically you're going to put 

1239
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:23,480
new tissues under tension. 
If you don't do it slow enough 

1240
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:28,840
you could end up getting hurt. 
But that's that's my two cents 

1241
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:31,160
on this and I hope I made sense 
because I rambled for a little 

1242
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:40,280
bit. 
Final question, how many bags of

1243
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:41,800
the scratched watermelon should 
I buy? 

1244
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:44,720
I found it on Amazon. 
How many are in stock? 

1245
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:49,640
It just I don't think it gives 
me a limit. 

1246
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:53,040
This is Matt. 
This is a Ron Swanson situation.

1247
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:55,520
So I don't know who watches 
Parks and Rec, but it's like 

1248
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:58,240
he's at Ji. 
Think it's at JJ's Diner. 

1249
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:01,080
But he's like, I want all the 
eggs I think he can have. 

1250
01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:04,000
And the guy starts walking away.
He's like, I'm sorry, I don't 

1251
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:07,720
think you heard me. 
Give me all of the eggs and 

1252
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:10,520
bacon that you have and this is 
what this is your situation, 

1253
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:13,080
Matt, you just gotta get you 
gotta call up scratch and be 

1254
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:15,760
like, give me all of the 
watermelon scratch that you 

1255
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:18,240
have. 
Make sure they understand. 

1256
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:21,360
Yeah. 
Well, we want to thank everybody

1257
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:24,920
who contributed to this, all of 
the different questions that you

1258
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,440
posed or statements that you 
posed for us to talk through in 

1259
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:29,600
fact or fiction. 
We'd love to hear your thoughts.

1260
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:32,640
If you have other literature 
that speaks to some of these 

1261
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:36,200
questions that we haven't spoken
to, please post it and share 

1262
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:37,360
that. 
Let's disseminate that 

1263
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:39,960
information. 
If you have stories that you've 

1264
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:42,600
gone through on yourself or 
things you've learned from other

1265
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:45,440
people, please share that. 
And we would love for us all to 

1266
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:48,200
be able to learn from it. 
Thank you, everybody. 

1267
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:51,480
You can check us out at 
doctorsofrunning.com for all of 

1268
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:55,720
our written reviews and other 
articles on running science and 

1269
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:58,320
the art and science of running. 
Take care, everybody.