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Hello, everybody, and welcome to
the Doctors of Running podcast, 

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where we, a group of Doctors of 
Physical Therapy, discuss the 

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art and science of running and 
the stuff that we put on our 

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feet. 
We are powered by rabbit 

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apparel. 
They are presenting partner of 

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this podcast, and I think have 
been really consistent in making

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stuff that lasts. 
I know that the things that I've

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had from them. 
I have had for far before we've 

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started the partnership with 
them. 

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And so I know that kind of comes
with a higher price tag, and 

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that is a very real thing that 
you got to consider when you 

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think about purchasing 
something. 

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But the stuff that I've been 
wearing, I've had like my tights

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that I bought like 6 years ago 
now. 

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I'm still wearing and there's 
nowhere in them and they help me

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get through the winter. 
So if you're looking to get into

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the rabbit game, we have a new 
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it's D-O-R March 10, that'll get
you 10% off any order over $50. 

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Matt, we now get to talk about 
what we are testing. 

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It's just Matt and I at the 
round table, so you're stuck 

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with just the 2 of us. 
What sort of things have you 

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been getting on your feet? 
What are you testing lately? 

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Dude, I have a ton of stuff. 
Ill stick with the new stuff at 

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the moment. 
Um, biggest thing. 

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I just got my feet into the new 
Sockany Ride 19. which obviously

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honestly feels like a mini 
triumph, to be honest. 

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So previous versions have been 
like a little, I cushioned, 

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obviously, but a little firmer, 
a little snappier. 

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This one in a different 
direction where it's softer, 

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kind of more plush, a lot 
thicker upper, so it's been a 

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really interesting experience to
a run in this because it's 

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obviously software. 
I've been able to run as long, 

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uh, just because it's a little 
software, a little less stable 

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than previously, but Outsoul is 
doing pretty awesome and hanging

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on really well. 
So, there's that one. 

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Even with the, yeah, it's kind 
of cut at the midfoot and it 

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hasn't ripped off for you. 
It has not ripped off yet. 

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We'll see what happens, but 
yeah, it's also pretty thick, so

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it's good. 
Um, the puma deviate nitro elite

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4 has been on my feet, and I 
just finished my miles, and I 

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didn't know what to expect with 
this because the last one, I 

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know people really love it, and 
I was kind of like, man, like it

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was super stiff, and then it 
just kind of lost its bounce. 

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This one went the opposite where
I put it on. 

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I'm like, okay, like it's light,
that's nice, right? 

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It's got a good, you know, 
classic puma, nice upper. 

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And then when I really got into 
the workout, I was like, oh, 

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like this feels good. 
It's very like speed dependent. 

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It's one of those ones where you
warm up in this, you're going at

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easy pace. 
You're not really going to 

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notice this, but when you can 
really get on that like heel 

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midfoot and like roll through, 
the plate that's curved, you can

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see that they've split the plate
here in the bottom, um, so 

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they're one of the many 
companies that are exploring the

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non-full contact plates or the 
non, like the, like plates with 

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holes in them and stuff like 
that, just to drop weight, stuff

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like that. 
But this thing is 6 ounces. 

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It's great. 
I love that these things are 

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starting to feel like racing 
crews again instead of these 

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giant bulky, like kind of 
heavier lightweight trainer. 

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Like, it's really snappy and 
fast. 

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It's just interesting that it 
doesn't take that much, but once

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you pick up the pace, it's a lot
better. 

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So thinking about doing a 5K in 
this, but still, I don't know 

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what people are talking about. 
These are not stable, right? 

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Narrow midfoot, not like, 
there's a small sidewall here, 

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but softer foam. 
I'm not sure where people are 

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getting the stable part from. 
It's not unstable, but it's not 

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overly stable either. 
So sorry, people, the stable 

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neutral fam. 
I don't know. 

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This is still not, in my 
opinion, part of the group. 

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You were going to say something.
I was going to ask. 

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I found, especially with version
one, like I loved when that shoe

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came out. 
It was one of those that I could

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take easy and I could go fast 
because it was really light. 

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So you could just turn over 
quick, but it had a geometry 

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that made it easy to warm up in 
and all that. 

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Does it carry that into this 
version? 

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I didn't get it as long as well 
when they increased the toe 

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spring and some of the other 
versions, but yeah, I think 

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version one or version three. 
Sorry, was super stiff. 

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Version one was like the OG. 
Now that you say that, I would 

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say there are some, I didn't 
realize that until you said 

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that. 
There are some similarities to 

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version one, just a little bit 
firmer and a little bit more, 

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once you pick up the pace, then 
that bounciness comes out, but 

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it just feels more aggressive. 
Version one was like the do it 

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all, comfortable, like your 
entry level super shoe that was 

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just felt good. 
This is still the like, yeah, 

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it's definitely a racing shoe. 
It's definitely approachable, 

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but it's still definitely a 
racing shoe. 

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Okay. 
Did you test the most recent 

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fast star? 
Yes, the yes, I did. 

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Yep. 
That's if you were aggressive. 

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Yeah. 
I was going to say, if you're 

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going to talk, who would like 
one versus the other, how would 

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you talk about that? 
Because you got 2 racing shoes 

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from them. 
They're pretty different. 

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It sounds. 
They're very different. 

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So, I mean, anything's going to 
feel stable compared to the 

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Faustor three. 
But that's your, Hey, you've got

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really stable stiff mechanics, 
you are running it extremely 

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high speeds. 
That's it's a very specific 

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tool. 
The deviate naturally for is 

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going to have a lot more 
versatility for a larger 

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variation of runners, right? 
Just because, again, not as 

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unstable. 
You can certainly jog in it. 

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It's not the greatest one for 
that, but it can certainly 

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handle that. 
And I think it's going to 

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respond a lot better to a 
greater variety of people. 

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Like any, you know, you've got 
your person whose normal paces 

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like 12 minute pace, and they 
want a super shoe, and then they

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go, and they're like, yeah, but 
my race base is like 9, 10 

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minute pace. 
This is going to be a lot better

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option or even the deviate nitro
4 or something like that. 

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But because this is going to 
handle greater variety of 

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pieces. 
I feel like the fast start, it's

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like, it is a wild animal to 
shoe. either hold on or you 

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can't. 
I feel like half the time I 

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can't, to be honest. 
Yeah. 

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Cool. what else you got So I 
also just got the Under Armor 

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velocity Elite 3 on my feet. and
so have been very interested in 

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the issue of the while. 
I feel like they've made a lot 

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of improvements compared to 
version two, so much later. 

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Full, like, full height, 
superfoam now. 

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I believe it's called Hover 
Plus. 

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Um, still feels a little bit 
older foam in terms of like kind

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of like reminding me. 
BJ was joking about this, but 

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it's what it feels like is kind 
of more of that feel, like these

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sock and the endorphin pro 2 
kind of like power run PB, 

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little bit softer, did great on 
an easy run pushing a stroller, 

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ironically, so great rubber 
coverage. 

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We'll see how this last upper is
obviously fantastic. 

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Under Armor does usually a good 
job with that. 

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But still a little bit on the 
heavier ed for racing shoes. 

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So I think they are catching up.
I'm excited to get my miles. 

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I haven't done a workout in the 
shoe, but they're they're 

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getting there. 
It's definitely more stable. 

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Like this internal cutout is 
definitely helped out a little a

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lot. 
And there is a pretty 

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significant sidewall that seems 
to offset the narrowed midfoot, 

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but we'll see how the miles keep
going. 

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What's your perspective? 
When it comes to cutouts. 

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How big does the cutout have to 
be for it to make a meaningful 

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difference? 
Like the kind of that, 

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especially when it's a full 
ravine in the middle and what's 

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the, why do we think that helps 
or why does it not? 

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I wish I had a good answer for 
you, but I'm going to be very 

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honest that I don't know and 
nobody knows. 

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I mean, maybe there might be 
some company out there that 

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studs some like small sample 
size of like testing that, but I

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think, obviously, the larger it 
gets, probably the more likely 

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the significant it's going to 
make, but I don't know that for 

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sure. 
You can also see companies that 

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maybe don't have a gap, but they
got this like really large flex 

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group. 
So I, again, I'm going to say I 

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don't know to what degree it 
makes an impact. 

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I just know that, again, the 
idea is that path least 

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resistance. 
And that's what I've been told 

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when I've asked people in the 
development world going, yes, 

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you know, when you create stuff 
like this, you have kind of less

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resist, less emotion here 
whereas you go into the other 

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side. 
There's more material, so that 

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basic physics principle, if 
you're going to go to the path 

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of least resistance, is kind of 
the idea. 

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And that's what it feels like to
what degree you need to, what 

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width or size you need to create
that to make a meaningful 

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effect? 
I don't know. 

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Yeah. 
There's no research on it at 

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all. 
Nobody's ever touched that in a 

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paper, but people talk about it 
in the industry all the time. 

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I think one of the things I 
think about is, you know, 

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there's a difference between the
guidance line of like, say, the 

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nimbus of like 2016. 
You know, they always had that 

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line up the middle and maybe 
even uh, some shoes that have a 

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little bit of a cutout in the 
middle, but not all the way to 

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like a plate. 
When it comes to these ones, I 

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go all the way to the plate and 
come way back to the heel, I 

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think about how much the foam on
the medial and lateral side get 

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to interact with one another. 
And when you have a smaller 

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pillar of foam that's just 
sitting on that outside of the 

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shoe on the lateral side, we 
usually land on that position 

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because most people are going to
land on the outside, which is a 

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typical gate pattern either in 
the heel or up in the midfoot. 

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And if there isn't full 
crossbridges of the foam 

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compound all the way across. 
I think that allows it to 

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compress a lot easier on that 
lateral side and have more 

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displacement, which I think 
might give some of those shoes a

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little bit of a lateral bias to 
it because you can really 

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collapse it. 
I'm thinking about some extreme 

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shoes that I've tested in 
prototypes where they not only 

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had to cut down the middle, but 
they also had additional ones 

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that went across the side. 
So you almost had these little 

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pillars and I would just slam 
all the way through them because

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they weren't, they were just 
independent little pillars 

196
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instead of hanging out of the 
whole thing. 

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So I think that there might, I 
don't know if you, do you ever 

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feel that for these shoes of the
bigger cutout that it laterally 

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biases you or not so much? 
I do, the ones that seem to, 

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obviously, to me, make the 
bigger difference of the ones 

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that have a medial cutout, like 
a CLO X 12.0. 

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Really, I struggle with because 
it had this massive medial 

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cutout, and I just collapse 
through that. 

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I think the lateral cutouts. 
I tend to do better as somebody 

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that has excessive medial 
motion. 

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Um, but the person that's 
definitely the good person to 

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ask about this is Andrea, 
because she is very sensitive to

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that lateral push. 
Well, I wonder even for you, if 

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just those big cuts down the 
middle tend to give you a 

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lateral bias because the lateral
side compresses more, and then 

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you roll into the medial side, 
which isn't already compressed. 

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So it's almost giving that 
almost a wedge feeling to it, a 

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dynamic wedge. 
I guess you could say. 

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Yep, potentially. 
For sure. 

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Cool. 
Nice. 

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Well, I have not been testing 
much new. 

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There's been 2 shoes that I've 
been getting some miles on as 

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I'm getting back into my habit 
of running. 

219
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Um, well, I got to run my 1st 
like event. 

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It wasn't a I did not race it, 
but I got to run an event. 

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It's the Bok run. 
It happens every single year at 

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our local brewery and a couple 
1000 people come out. 

223
00:10:32,460 --> 00:10:34,619
It's always a really fun 
community event. 

224
00:10:34,620 --> 00:10:39,414
But it was a 5 mile run. 
I was able to keep my governor 

225
00:10:39,414 --> 00:10:42,058
on and standard control, even in
like a race environment. 

226
00:10:42,059 --> 00:10:48,583
But I ran it in the, uh, on 
Cloud Monster Hyper, uh, the new

227
00:10:48,583 --> 00:10:52,019
three, three, right? 
Yes, two, three. 

228
00:10:52,019 --> 00:10:57,119
And not the light spray version,
just the regular tie up version.

229
00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,763
And as much as I hate the price 
tag of that shoe, because I have

230
00:11:00,763 --> 00:11:04,275
it, I do love to run in it. 
especially for what I'm coming 

231
00:11:04,275 --> 00:11:08,673
back from with kind of my foot 
and how that allows me to roll 

232
00:11:08,673 --> 00:11:11,813
through on a stiff rocker 
without any toe spring, really 

233
00:11:11,813 --> 00:11:14,639
nice accommodating fit, so it 
works well for me. 

234
00:11:14,639 --> 00:11:18,455
The other shoe that I've been 
really liking for easy runs has 

235
00:11:18,455 --> 00:11:21,948
been the NeoZen 2, and I'd love 
to actually hear your 

236
00:11:21,948 --> 00:11:25,118
perspective on this because a 
big, the biggest change that 

237
00:11:25,118 --> 00:11:28,922
they made is they changed the 
midsole on that shoe and they, 

238
00:11:28,922 --> 00:11:32,092
in the version one, it was 
identifiable, very, very soft, 

239
00:11:32,092 --> 00:11:35,579
and it was a super critical TPU 
midsole, I'm pretty sure. 

240
00:11:35,580 --> 00:11:38,999
And then I think the newer one 
is an EVA mid-sole. 

241
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,863
And I think that that has been a
source of contention for people 

242
00:11:42,863 --> 00:11:45,239
of like, oh, this is a movement 
backwards. 

243
00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:49,484
What's your current perspective 
on one versus 2 and just foam 

244
00:11:49,484 --> 00:11:53,324
compounds in general? 
I think I wish I could tell you,

245
00:11:53,324 --> 00:11:57,009
oh, yes, if you exactly change 
the midsole property, then that 

246
00:11:57,009 --> 00:12:01,029
shoe also change as opposed to 
getting made fun of with the 

247
00:12:01,029 --> 00:12:04,379
neo, why am I blanking on the 
original neo Vista? 

248
00:12:04,379 --> 00:12:06,491
like, oh, this is a 
superforming, like, it's 

249
00:12:06,491 --> 00:12:08,886
expanded EVA. 
Like, I don't know what is going

250
00:12:08,886 --> 00:12:12,009
on anymore. 
Um, so it definitely feels to me

251
00:12:12,009 --> 00:12:15,701
like a less compliant mitzel 
than the original, which I 

252
00:12:15,701 --> 00:12:18,012
really love. 
The thing that's really given me

253
00:12:18,012 --> 00:12:21,413
a hard time, though, is the heel
counter and the heel padding is 

254
00:12:21,413 --> 00:12:22,979
like digging up into my 
Achilles. 

255
00:12:22,980 --> 00:12:25,079
So I've had a little trouble 
getting miles on that. 

256
00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,356
But what the ones I have, yeah, 
it's definitely a bit firmer, 

257
00:12:28,356 --> 00:12:31,086
which to me, ironically makes 
the shoe feel lighter, just 

258
00:12:31,086 --> 00:12:33,538
because I'm able to get off the 
platform quicker. 

259
00:12:33,539 --> 00:12:36,127
Whereas version one, I didn't 
feel like I know a lot of people

260
00:12:36,127 --> 00:12:37,918
are like, it's such a light 
shoot with it. 

261
00:12:37,919 --> 00:12:40,763
I think because I collapsed into
it and I couldn't get bounced 

262
00:12:40,763 --> 00:12:42,658
out of it because it was so 
compliant. 

263
00:12:42,659 --> 00:12:45,298
It made the shoe feel heavier to
me. 

264
00:12:45,299 --> 00:12:49,723
And that's just one of the many 
ways that our perception, our 

265
00:12:49,723 --> 00:12:53,771
interaction with the shoe can 
influence how it feels and can 

266
00:12:53,771 --> 00:12:55,979
be totally different person to 
person. 

267
00:12:55,980 --> 00:12:58,439
So I wouldn't say it's a step 
back. 

268
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,649
I would say it makes sense based
on, I think, and not everybody's

269
00:13:01,649 --> 00:13:05,015
going to like this, right? 
So the fact that it felt the 1st

270
00:13:05,015 --> 00:13:08,219
version felt a little bit too 
mushy and a little bit unstable.

271
00:13:08,220 --> 00:13:10,880
Um, This one definitely takes 
that, which makes sense because 

272
00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,072
the EVA foam may have a little 
bit more, a little less 

273
00:13:14,072 --> 00:13:16,994
compliant than some of the new 
TPE foams, which just makes 

274
00:13:16,994 --> 00:13:19,379
sense, whether that's going to 
work for a person. 

275
00:13:19,379 --> 00:13:21,964
No, it just makes version one 
and version 2 very different 

276
00:13:21,964 --> 00:13:23,339
shoes. 
What do you think? 

277
00:13:23,340 --> 00:13:26,158
Yeah, I guess I have a couple 
thoughts. 

278
00:13:26,159 --> 00:13:28,879
One is that from a personal 
preference standpoint, version 2

279
00:13:28,879 --> 00:13:31,720
works way better for me. 
Version one was too compliant 

280
00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:35,559
for me, and I kind of felt that 
mushiness, and I just couldn't 

281
00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,689
get high mileage because it just
was too soft, and I felt like my

282
00:13:39,689 --> 00:13:43,500
feet had to work too hard. 
And I think the maybe feet 

283
00:13:43,500 --> 00:13:45,839
working too hard. 
I put that in quotes. 

284
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:47,339
But that's what it felt. 
It's what it felt like. 

285
00:13:47,340 --> 00:13:50,827
And then, the other part I 
didn't like about version one 

286
00:13:50,827 --> 00:13:53,129
was the upper. 
So, unlike you, I'm getting 

287
00:13:53,129 --> 00:13:56,369
along really well with this 
upper, I feel like the paddy in 

288
00:13:56,369 --> 00:13:59,879
the heel grips really well and 
has a nice structure to it and 

289
00:13:59,879 --> 00:14:03,110
it holds me and is secure, 
whereas version one was a little

290
00:14:03,110 --> 00:14:06,876
loosey-goosey in the heel and so
I slid all over the place and it

291
00:14:06,876 --> 00:14:08,759
was never bothersome, but it 
wasn't comfortable. 

292
00:14:08,759 --> 00:14:12,599
So I think they, that moved in 
the right direction. 

293
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,239
I liked the little bit less 
compliance in midsole. 

294
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:19,799
So I like version 2 more. 
I think talking about the foam 

295
00:14:19,799 --> 00:14:24,839
compounds in general, I am far 
from an expert in this stuff, 

296
00:14:24,839 --> 00:14:28,199
but from the experts we have 
talked to. 

297
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:34,019
There is no longer the ability 
to say foam compound A, EBA, is 

298
00:14:34,019 --> 00:14:38,489
better or worse than foam 
compound B, TPU, or whatever 

299
00:14:38,489 --> 00:14:43,853
compounds you want to throw in 
there because you can do things 

300
00:14:43,853 --> 00:14:48,770
now that couldn't be done 10 
years ago with kind of 

301
00:14:48,770 --> 00:14:51,899
management of the creation of 
these foams. 

302
00:14:51,899 --> 00:14:57,011
And so you can have an EVA that 
has the same performance 

303
00:14:57,011 --> 00:15:00,414
properties from like a foam's 
compression and rebound 

304
00:15:00,414 --> 00:15:02,425
standpoint. 
So I think it's, unfortunate, 

305
00:15:02,425 --> 00:15:06,543
it's, it's, we can't just say 
EVA is better or worse, in my 

306
00:15:06,543 --> 00:15:09,071
opinion. 
What we don't get privy to are 

307
00:15:09,071 --> 00:15:12,231
those specific details that they
measure in the lab because 

308
00:15:12,231 --> 00:15:14,759
that's all kept in house, which 
makes sense. 

309
00:15:14,759 --> 00:15:18,506
But I think for us is people who
go out and try to buy these 

310
00:15:18,506 --> 00:15:21,743
shoes and especially for people 
like us who nerd out on this way

311
00:15:21,743 --> 00:15:24,220
more than we should. 
Sometimes we do wish we'd 

312
00:15:24,220 --> 00:15:26,884
understood the difference in the
categorization of these foams, 

313
00:15:26,884 --> 00:15:30,732
or if you're going to say it's 
an EVA, convince us that that's 

314
00:15:30,732 --> 00:15:34,279
not a worse thing, because EVA 
has a connotation that I don't 

315
00:15:34,279 --> 00:15:37,616
know if it deserves. 
I think the other thing we have 

316
00:15:37,616 --> 00:15:41,928
to run into is that I don't I 
don't know if there's really any

317
00:15:41,928 --> 00:15:45,316
pure foams left because, and 
kudos to Andrea and Corey, who 

318
00:15:45,316 --> 00:15:49,012
we've had on the podcast many 
times, who who taught me this, 

319
00:15:49,012 --> 00:15:51,778
that this, that most foams are 
blends now, right? 

320
00:15:51,779 --> 00:15:54,840
Like it's not pure even. 
It's like if you have anybody 

321
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,735
choose a foam, right? 
So new balance with their fuel 

322
00:15:57,735 --> 00:16:01,359
cell or Nike with their Zoom X 
or Adidas with their light 

323
00:16:01,359 --> 00:16:04,379
strike or Socony with their, um,
what am I blanking? 

324
00:16:04,379 --> 00:16:06,359
Not indorphing pro, power on PB.
Thank you. 

325
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,639
And now power and HG and all the
other stuff there. 

326
00:16:08,639 --> 00:16:11,729
They're not pure anymore. 
There are variations and they 

327
00:16:11,729 --> 00:16:14,526
use a couple different materials
and even though it has the same 

328
00:16:14,526 --> 00:16:16,619
name. 
It's not the same. 

329
00:16:16,620 --> 00:16:19,374
And people know that, right? 
If you're running in the new 

330
00:16:19,374 --> 00:16:22,482
Nike structure versus the vapor 
fly, those shoot 2 Zoom X ones 

331
00:16:22,482 --> 00:16:25,590
bring in a field complete, and 
there's also other EVA film in 

332
00:16:25,590 --> 00:16:29,339
the Snike Surf, that's not a 
great example. will be a better 

333
00:16:29,339 --> 00:16:34,115
example. 
Uh, the Nike, uh, Pegasus Plus 

334
00:16:34,115 --> 00:16:39,119
versus the vapor flight. 
Those are not the same Zoom X. 

335
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,819
And yet, it just says Zoom X 
foam on the site. 

336
00:16:41,820 --> 00:16:44,970
All these films are tuned or 
modified with different blends 

337
00:16:44,970 --> 00:16:46,859
to create what they're hoping 
for. 

338
00:16:46,860 --> 00:16:50,590
Depending on the company 
because, like, ASIX does a, they

339
00:16:50,590 --> 00:16:53,798
never change their foam. 
If they call it fly foam turbo, 

340
00:16:53,798 --> 00:16:55,414
it's always the same. 
Got it. 

341
00:16:55,414 --> 00:16:58,367
Like no matter what shoes. 
So they they've been pretty 

342
00:16:58,367 --> 00:17:01,164
transparent with that one. 
They've been on the show here, 

343
00:17:01,164 --> 00:17:04,284
but I think that's that's a 
unique part of this from 

344
00:17:04,284 --> 00:17:08,259
navigating that as like people. 
So I think it goes back to try 

345
00:17:08,259 --> 00:17:12,089
it. and figure out what the heck
you like because if you love a 

346
00:17:12,089 --> 00:17:14,519
shoe that has EVA, who cares 
that it's EVA? 

347
00:17:14,519 --> 00:17:17,255
It's performing the way that you
want it to, especially if it's 

348
00:17:17,255 --> 00:17:19,078
for, you know, daily miles and 
easy runs. 

349
00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:22,926
I will also say that people like
to focus on the mitzvah foams, 

350
00:17:22,926 --> 00:17:26,183
but they have to realize that 
there are other factors that 

351
00:17:26,183 --> 00:17:28,550
influence, even how the 
cushioning feels underfoot, like

352
00:17:28,550 --> 00:17:32,388
how much outsole material can 
firm up or stiffen up a shoe, a 

353
00:17:32,388 --> 00:17:35,338
plate or stiffening agent, even 
your perception of the shoe. 

354
00:17:35,339 --> 00:17:37,803
There's been some very 
interesting evidence out there 

355
00:17:37,803 --> 00:17:39,959
going, like color, all kinds of 
stuff. 

356
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:41,759
The purpose of what you expect 
it to be. 

357
00:17:41,759 --> 00:17:44,955
There's all kinds of things 
that, and geometry is a big one,

358
00:17:44,955 --> 00:17:48,107
can also influence that. 
So the foam is one piece of the 

359
00:17:48,107 --> 00:17:50,978
puzzle, and I know it sounds 
like you're making this really 

360
00:17:50,978 --> 00:17:53,155
complicated, and you could 
totally ignore us. and just 

361
00:17:53,155 --> 00:17:55,814
like, just put it on and see how
it fits, and that's kind of the 

362
00:17:55,814 --> 00:17:58,429
best option, to be honest. 
But if you are someone who is 

363
00:17:58,429 --> 00:18:01,640
learning that you want to be a 
little picky, you kind of have 

364
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,851
to figure out, okay, there seems
to be a combination of things I 

365
00:18:04,851 --> 00:18:07,318
like what combination typically 
works for me and what doesn't. 

366
00:18:07,319 --> 00:18:09,923
So you can be on either extreme,
on either end of this and you 

367
00:18:09,923 --> 00:18:12,368
can be, you'll be totally fine. 
Just depends on how much you 

368
00:18:12,368 --> 00:18:14,578
want to try to figure out and 
try to predict. 

369
00:18:14,579 --> 00:18:18,392
Yeah. 
I wish I could go back and 

370
00:18:18,392 --> 00:18:22,121
before we started talking about 
all of these acronyms, EVA, TPU,

371
00:18:22,121 --> 00:18:23,919
et cetera. 
I wish we would have given a 

372
00:18:23,919 --> 00:18:26,204
little bit of a background. 
So, yeah, ethylene, vinyl, 

373
00:18:26,204 --> 00:18:30,285
acetate or something, but it's 
all what we're talking about are

374
00:18:30,285 --> 00:18:33,988
different base products that get
turned into foams and the 

375
00:18:33,988 --> 00:18:37,199
properties of those. 
We do have an episode from a 

376
00:18:37,199 --> 00:18:39,065
while back. 
I wish I could recall what 

377
00:18:39,065 --> 00:18:41,597
number it was, but we brought on
a material scientist and they 

378
00:18:41,597 --> 00:18:43,918
talked about what these are and 
how they're developed and things

379
00:18:43,918 --> 00:18:46,659
like that. 
So we can maybe try to find that

380
00:18:46,659 --> 00:18:49,750
and post it somewhere. 
Um, any other shoes that you're 

381
00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:52,318
testing or things you want to 
chat on? 

382
00:18:52,319 --> 00:18:56,561
Actually, I got to throw up the,
and again, a big thank you to 

383
00:18:56,561 --> 00:18:59,591
our followers who mentioned this
shoe because if they hadn't 

384
00:18:59,591 --> 00:19:03,227
mentioned this, I would have had
no idea it existed, but the 

385
00:19:03,227 --> 00:19:06,503
Sockony Omni 23 ST. 
This might be one of my favorite

386
00:19:06,503 --> 00:19:09,778
shoes of this year. 
I keep grabbing it. 

387
00:19:09,779 --> 00:19:12,179
I think I've almost got 70, 80 
miles in this thing. 

388
00:19:12,180 --> 00:19:15,993
Durability is doing fantastic. 
The support is holding up really

389
00:19:15,993 --> 00:19:18,383
well. 
This is probably one of the 

390
00:19:18,383 --> 00:19:22,194
better feeling power run PB. 
Mid-souls, I felt in a while 

391
00:19:22,194 --> 00:19:26,382
where it's like it just balances
out between the post and the 

392
00:19:26,382 --> 00:19:29,255
soft, bouncy cushioning there. 
It's not the fastest shoe, but 

393
00:19:29,255 --> 00:19:32,453
man, it can do long runs, easy 
runs, a little bit up tempo 

394
00:19:32,453 --> 00:19:34,049
stuff. 
It's been really, really really 

395
00:19:34,049 --> 00:19:36,263
good. 
I'm just like, one of those 

396
00:19:36,263 --> 00:19:39,493
sleeper shoes going, Sockani, 
why are you not talking about 

397
00:19:39,493 --> 00:19:41,784
this more? 
Like this shoe was, it's been 

398
00:19:41,784 --> 00:19:43,139
awesome. 
It's been a great shoe. 

399
00:19:43,140 --> 00:19:45,479
And then as per requested from 
Nathan. 

400
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,598
I'm getting more miles. on the 
on cloud. 

401
00:19:48,599 --> 00:19:49,679
Let see if I can say this 
correct. 

402
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,159
On Cloud Monster 3, hyper light 
spray. 

403
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,979
Is that the right order? 
I don't even know. 

404
00:19:55,980 --> 00:19:58,499
So I've got about 50 miles on 
this thing thus far. 

405
00:19:58,500 --> 00:20:02,483
Upper is still holding up well. 
I am starting to notice I'm 

406
00:20:02,483 --> 00:20:05,038
getting a little bit more 
translation in the upper. 

407
00:20:05,039 --> 00:20:07,835
It hasn't, didn't cause any 
issues today on a long run, but 

408
00:20:07,835 --> 00:20:10,858
it wasn't, I did like 10.5 11, 
so it wasn't the longest thing. 

409
00:20:10,859 --> 00:20:14,485
We typically do in like 12, 13. 
So it's done several long runs 

410
00:20:14,485 --> 00:20:15,909
well. 
It's very light and does 

411
00:20:15,909 --> 00:20:18,439
workouts very well for those who
don't necessarily want to plate,

412
00:20:18,439 --> 00:20:20,969
but still want something that 
there's no way there's not a 

413
00:20:20,969 --> 00:20:22,919
plate in this. 
This is so stiff. 

414
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,787
And I think about that every 
time I put it on, I'm like, ah, 

415
00:20:25,787 --> 00:20:26,939
it's not played. 
It shouldn't be. 

416
00:20:26,940 --> 00:20:30,419
And then I like hit some fast 
workout. like, oh. 

417
00:20:30,420 --> 00:20:35,009
So, yes. 
I felt that way when I blind 

418
00:20:35,009 --> 00:20:36,569
reviewed. 
So like blind reviewing, meaning

419
00:20:36,569 --> 00:20:39,365
I didn't look any any of the 
specs or anything about the 

420
00:20:39,365 --> 00:20:40,831
shoe. 
I just took the shoe out of the 

421
00:20:40,831 --> 00:20:42,058
box and ran in it, the mega 
blast. 

422
00:20:42,059 --> 00:20:44,386
I thought there was going to be 
a plate in that thing because 

423
00:20:44,386 --> 00:20:46,349
even with bending it in my 
hands, but nope, there's just 

424
00:20:46,349 --> 00:20:48,485
some shoes with the amount of 
foam that's in there and the 

425
00:20:48,485 --> 00:20:49,979
construction of it. 
It just does not budge. 

426
00:20:49,980 --> 00:20:52,380
Super stiff. 
That said, again, it's still 

427
00:20:52,380 --> 00:20:55,380
stiff, so it's still, again, the
whole concept thing, stiffing 

428
00:20:55,380 --> 00:20:57,778
Adrian or not, the shoe doesn't 
flex, right? 

429
00:20:57,779 --> 00:21:01,045
That's, there's stiffness. 
So it handles workouts really, 

430
00:21:01,045 --> 00:21:03,659
really well. 
I'm just on the same page here. 

431
00:21:03,660 --> 00:21:06,257
There's nowhere on the upper. 
Jeff Dengate actually reached 

432
00:21:06,257 --> 00:21:09,044
out to me. 
I did not respond, which now I 

433
00:21:09,044 --> 00:21:12,097
feel bad, from Runner's World, 
and said that he's used this on 

434
00:21:12,097 --> 00:21:15,399
like trails and gotten mud on 
it, and you can just hose it 

435
00:21:15,399 --> 00:21:17,939
off, and I haven't tried that, 
but living in Oregon. 

436
00:21:17,940 --> 00:21:20,818
But it is starting to get a 
little bit more flexible. 

437
00:21:20,819 --> 00:21:24,102
So it's held me well. 
But we're going to keep getting 

438
00:21:24,102 --> 00:21:27,419
miles in this and see how long 
this thing really upper left. 

439
00:21:27,420 --> 00:21:29,159
The outseal is great. 
I mean, there's like nowhere. 

440
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,439
So it's good. 
But we'll see. 

441
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,979
I would love to see if you could
put 400 miles in that shoe. 

442
00:21:34,980 --> 00:21:38,519
Dude, it also feels like it has 
its thrown out numbers for you. 

443
00:21:38,519 --> 00:21:40,379
It also feels like it has a 
medial post. 

444
00:21:40,380 --> 00:21:44,459
The arch is so high and so 
aggressive. 

445
00:21:44,460 --> 00:21:46,858
It feels like a stability shoe. 
I'm going to say this. 

446
00:21:46,859 --> 00:21:49,783
You feel that? 
Yes. the other one, the other 

447
00:21:49,783 --> 00:21:52,979
upper two? 
I don't feel that in that much. 

448
00:21:52,980 --> 00:21:54,298
I just curious. 
Yeah. 

449
00:21:54,299 --> 00:21:56,699
That's again, where I'm like, 
are these really similar to 

450
00:21:56,699 --> 00:21:58,332
Latin? 
No, they feel completely 

451
00:21:58,332 --> 00:22:01,251
different. 
Like, the I love the hyper is 

452
00:22:01,251 --> 00:22:03,179
great. 
It's a really great shoe. 

453
00:22:03,180 --> 00:22:06,439
It versatile. good. 
This, like, I, the 1st time I 

454
00:22:06,439 --> 00:22:09,043
wore it, I got that, like, shin 
splint type feeling where I'm 

455
00:22:09,043 --> 00:22:11,855
like, oh, I've got a shoe that's
like too stable and it stopped 

456
00:22:11,855 --> 00:22:14,447
me from pronunating and now my 
shin's starting to ache a little

457
00:22:14,447 --> 00:22:18,327
bit on the 1st run with this. 
I feel I feel more of a post in 

458
00:22:18,327 --> 00:22:20,519
the Super Blast three. 
Interesting. 

459
00:22:20,519 --> 00:22:22,558
I know I know that you don't 
feel that. 

460
00:22:22,559 --> 00:22:26,044
I am not. 
But I feel that little bit of a,

461
00:22:26,044 --> 00:22:29,219
because they bring up the, the 
flight phone max. 

462
00:22:29,220 --> 00:22:31,414
Is that what's at the bottom? 
And they bring that up and build

463
00:22:31,414 --> 00:22:34,189
it up on the medial side by the 
arch, and I can feel that into 

464
00:22:34,189 --> 00:22:36,226
my foot. 
And I'm usually more sensitive 

465
00:22:36,226 --> 00:22:38,974
to that stuff anyway. 
It doesn't, it's not super 

466
00:22:38,974 --> 00:22:42,358
bothersome, but I know it's 
there when I put the shoe on. 

467
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,723
Cool. 
Anything else that you're 

468
00:22:44,723 --> 00:22:46,882
testing? 
Man, it's a lot of stuff right 

469
00:22:46,882 --> 00:22:49,971
now. 
Um, there's one, uh, I've got, I

470
00:22:49,971 --> 00:22:52,380
guess I can say this now. got 
the garacarbon 3 out there, 

471
00:22:52,380 --> 00:22:54,990
which has been interesting. 
Speaking of lateral cutouts, I 

472
00:22:54,990 --> 00:22:58,180
forgot that we, that this 
episode will be out long after 

473
00:22:58,180 --> 00:23:01,950
the, the release date, but it's 
been a, Diodora, I think is, is 

474
00:23:01,950 --> 00:23:03,778
on their way. 
They're not quite there yet. 

475
00:23:03,779 --> 00:23:07,453
Um, it's very, if people with 
narrow feet, you're going to 

476
00:23:07,453 --> 00:23:10,635
love some of their shoes. 
Like, there's really narrow 

477
00:23:10,635 --> 00:23:14,479
fitting, which I can totally see
some people liking. been a 

478
00:23:14,479 --> 00:23:17,771
little challenging for me. 
I just, I don't know why them 

479
00:23:17,771 --> 00:23:21,555
and a few other companies keep 
making that really big poster 

480
00:23:21,555 --> 00:23:24,612
flare. 
It just makes the ride so 

481
00:23:24,612 --> 00:23:29,694
clunky. and I just, if you land 
farther forward, Great. you 

482
00:23:29,694 --> 00:23:31,439
gonna miss it, but then you're 
adding a necessary weight. 

483
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,572
So I just, I, I understand also 
that they're like probably the 

484
00:23:34,572 --> 00:23:37,443
thought process I've been told 
is you're trying to reduce, if 

485
00:23:37,443 --> 00:23:40,053
people understand this and the, 
the listeners aren't going to 

486
00:23:40,053 --> 00:23:42,918
see this, but people look at 
like ground reaction forces and 

487
00:23:42,918 --> 00:23:45,778
there's like, if you're a heel 
striker, there's this kind of 

488
00:23:45,778 --> 00:23:48,378
initial peak that happens where 
there's like the little sharp 

489
00:23:48,378 --> 00:23:51,498
thing and then you get this like
rounded curve as your body 

490
00:23:51,498 --> 00:23:54,455
starts to like transition over. 
And some of the things that 

491
00:23:54,455 --> 00:23:57,491
people said is, oh, if you have 
this extended transition time, 

492
00:23:57,491 --> 00:24:00,803
it spreads out that peak over a 
longer period, the challenge is 

493
00:24:00,803 --> 00:24:03,563
that's only looking at ground 
reaction forces and ignoring the

494
00:24:03,563 --> 00:24:06,599
rest of the biomechanics of the 
lower extremity, which then you 

495
00:24:06,599 --> 00:24:09,480
have an early initial contact. 
You're landing before your 

496
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,200
body's muscles are ready. 
You are also have, like, moments

497
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,523
and torques of things that are 
happening that actually 

498
00:24:16,523 --> 00:24:20,951
accelerate your foot from heels 
from being in a more dorsy flex 

499
00:24:20,951 --> 00:24:24,641
to planter flex position 
quicker, which puts more load on

500
00:24:24,641 --> 00:24:27,486
your Dorsy. like, yeah, man, 
like don't, I think some people,

501
00:24:27,486 --> 00:24:30,528
I don't know if this is what's 
going on, but I think some 

502
00:24:30,528 --> 00:24:32,166
people look at certain 
biomechanical things in 

503
00:24:32,166 --> 00:24:34,019
isolation. 
You can't do that. 

504
00:24:34,019 --> 00:24:37,553
Unless and let me know if I'm 
totally wrong and there's some 

505
00:24:37,553 --> 00:24:40,199
other reason that this, they're 
doing this is, but... 

506
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,825
No, I think that's the 
philosophy in... 

507
00:24:42,825 --> 00:24:46,199
I remember when the 109 came out
from Hoka. 

508
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,517
And when the Clifton Edge came 
out, they were really touting 

509
00:24:49,517 --> 00:24:54,333
that as a way to kind of be like
the crash system in a car where 

510
00:24:54,333 --> 00:24:58,848
like the front of a car when it 
gets in a crash, like kind of 

511
00:24:58,848 --> 00:25:01,858
folds like an accordion that 
slows down that impact force. 

512
00:25:01,859 --> 00:25:04,199
They wanted to apply that to 
running footwear. 

513
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,379
And there's a reason those have 
not grown in popularity. 

514
00:25:07,380 --> 00:25:09,778
It just doesn't work. 
So those are gone. 

515
00:25:09,779 --> 00:25:11,278
They no longer try to make 
those. 

516
00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:13,678
I think the concept can be 
thrown out there, but it's not 

517
00:25:13,678 --> 00:25:15,867
going to work for runners 
because it's not going to be 

518
00:25:15,867 --> 00:25:17,459
comfortable and it's just not 
going to work. 

519
00:25:17,460 --> 00:25:20,038
So, it's going to work when you 
avoid it. 

520
00:25:20,039 --> 00:25:22,019
And then what's the point of it 
being there, you know? 

521
00:25:22,019 --> 00:25:26,639
So it's, uh, I think it's just 
not, not something that's 

522
00:25:26,639 --> 00:25:29,578
gonna... 
But, I mean, not surprisingly. 

523
00:25:29,579 --> 00:25:30,959
Yeah, the shoe looks awesome 
though. 

524
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,078
Like, they crush making good 
looking shoes. 

525
00:25:34,079 --> 00:25:36,298
Just it's going to work for a 
very specific runner. 

526
00:25:36,299 --> 00:25:38,759
And it's very expensive. 
Yes, it is. 

527
00:25:38,759 --> 00:25:41,578
Very, very, is it 350? 
that what it is? 

528
00:25:41,579 --> 00:25:42,838
I don't remember. 
That's a great question. 

529
00:25:42,839 --> 00:25:44,459
I don't remember off the top my 
head. 

530
00:25:44,460 --> 00:25:46,979
I think it's somewhere in the 
300 I think it's 300, I think. 

531
00:25:46,980 --> 00:25:52,739
Is it the Garcarbon 3? 
Yeah. 

532
00:25:52,740 --> 00:25:54,820
Yeah. 
Anyway, it's it's definitely on 

533
00:25:54,820 --> 00:25:57,179
the on the very pricey end. 
Premium. 

534
00:25:57,180 --> 00:26:00,349
But the outsole has not come off
yet, which is a big deal 

535
00:26:00,349 --> 00:26:01,558
compared to version. a good 
thing. 

536
00:26:01,559 --> 00:26:03,852
That's good thing. 
That is definitely an 

537
00:26:03,852 --> 00:26:06,435
improvement. 
Well, thank you for sharing 

538
00:26:06,435 --> 00:26:10,414
everything that you're testing. 
The in for testing segment is 

539
00:26:10,414 --> 00:26:14,910
always fueled by Scratch Labs. 
If you want any hydration or 

540
00:26:14,910 --> 00:26:17,578
inrun nutrition stuff or 
recovery stuff. 

541
00:26:17,579 --> 00:26:20,626
You can go to Scratch Labs 
website and check out what 

542
00:26:20,626 --> 00:26:23,052
they've got. 
And if you want, you can use the

543
00:26:23,052 --> 00:26:25,618
code Doctors of Running to get 
20% off your 1st order. 

544
00:26:25,619 --> 00:26:28,710
Hey, do you think if I keep 
complaining about the watermelon

545
00:26:28,710 --> 00:26:31,799
flavor with, like, you know how,
like, when I generally complain 

546
00:26:31,799 --> 00:26:34,319
about things, eventually it 
actually happens, like, now this

547
00:26:34,319 --> 00:26:36,291
has been reinforced. 
Like if I keep complaining about

548
00:26:36,291 --> 00:26:37,439
that? 
Is this going to happen? 

549
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,506
I'm not feeling hopeful for you 
because they just took one of 

550
00:26:41,506 --> 00:26:45,224
their, uh, like temporary 
seasonal ones and they made it a

551
00:26:45,224 --> 00:26:48,266
standard one, the passionfruit 
guava, orange or whatever, which

552
00:26:48,266 --> 00:26:50,338
I like that one. 
It's very sweet. 

553
00:26:50,339 --> 00:26:53,278
Like it doesn't, like, very 
sweet forward. 

554
00:26:53,279 --> 00:26:58,937
Um, but because they just made 
that official, I don't have hope

555
00:26:58,937 --> 00:27:02,312
for you. 
I still have the empty bag in my

556
00:27:02,312 --> 00:27:04,439
office just sitting there going,
well, funny. 

557
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,945
I'm just kidding All right. 
But what we get to talk about 

558
00:27:07,945 --> 00:27:10,618
now is something that you've 
been thinking about quite a bit.

559
00:27:10,619 --> 00:27:14,479
And so we want to spend the next
part of this episode talking 

560
00:27:14,479 --> 00:27:15,959
about strength training for 
runners. 

561
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,171
I think that if you are a runner
and you're listening to this, 

562
00:27:19,171 --> 00:27:22,391
you probably love running. 
And if you're like me, you love 

563
00:27:22,391 --> 00:27:25,889
running to the point that 
anytime you can run instead of 

564
00:27:25,889 --> 00:27:29,705
lift, you probably make that 
decision or at least a lot of 

565
00:27:29,705 --> 00:27:33,521
people do, which tends to result
in not giving our body stimuli 

566
00:27:33,521 --> 00:27:37,019
that can help it become more 
robust from different types of 

567
00:27:37,019 --> 00:27:39,881
injuries, everything from tendon
related injuries to bone stress 

568
00:27:39,881 --> 00:27:43,858
injuries. 
So lifting's really important. 

569
00:27:43,859 --> 00:27:46,558
But it sometimes feels 
overwhelming. 

570
00:27:46,559 --> 00:27:48,847
And when you get so deep into 
running that you're thinking 

571
00:27:48,847 --> 00:27:51,539
about all the different types of
runs and all the shoes and all 

572
00:27:51,539 --> 00:27:54,023
of the different training cycles
and types of runs you could do 

573
00:27:54,023 --> 00:27:57,150
to get to where you want to go. 
You start to apply that to 

574
00:27:57,150 --> 00:27:58,618
lifting, it can feel really 
complicated. 

575
00:27:58,619 --> 00:28:02,278
I think what's interesting about
lifting. 

576
00:28:02,279 --> 00:28:05,891
Then I'm going to let you go off
is I was talking to somebody 

577
00:28:05,891 --> 00:28:09,069
who's not a runner at all. 
And they're like, well, don't 

578
00:28:09,069 --> 00:28:11,547
you weightlift? 
I said, well, no, because I 

579
00:28:11,547 --> 00:28:13,979
don't, I'm not very dedicated, 
which isn't true. 

580
00:28:13,980 --> 00:28:16,176
I actually been lifting 
consistently over the last 3 

581
00:28:16,176 --> 00:28:17,879
months happy for myself in that 
one. 

582
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:23,439
But, um, What I say is like, I 
don't lift to lift, I lift for 

583
00:28:23,439 --> 00:28:25,566
my running. 
Like all of my decisions about 

584
00:28:25,566 --> 00:28:28,559
lifting are made in light of the
fact that I have these running 

585
00:28:28,559 --> 00:28:31,319
goals and these things that I 
want to be able to continue 

586
00:28:31,319 --> 00:28:34,140
doing when it comes to running. 
So maybe there's a certain lens 

587
00:28:34,140 --> 00:28:37,260
that we can have that can take 
all of the concepts and lifting,

588
00:28:37,260 --> 00:28:39,899
but bring it into a few that are
helpful for us. 

589
00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:43,308
So I just want to hear, Matt, 
your thoughts on, like, Just 

590
00:28:43,308 --> 00:28:46,716
lifting in general, what's its 
place for runners and how do we 

591
00:28:46,716 --> 00:28:49,833
take all of the information 
that's out there and kind of 

592
00:28:49,833 --> 00:28:52,110
simplify it? 
Yep, and that's exactly where I 

593
00:28:52,110 --> 00:28:54,959
want to go, that I know that 
it's very overwhelmed. 

594
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,298
We're in an age of information 
overload right now. 

595
00:28:57,299 --> 00:28:59,219
And if you look at any social 
media stuff. 

596
00:28:59,220 --> 00:29:01,882
There's a lot of people pushing 
like lifting and the way that 

597
00:29:01,882 --> 00:29:04,976
they push it isn't, I mean, it's
not bad, but it's also like, oh,

598
00:29:04,976 --> 00:29:07,849
you need to be spending like an 
hour plus and it makes this 

599
00:29:07,849 --> 00:29:09,838
sound really, you need to take 
all this time. 

600
00:29:09,839 --> 00:29:12,151
And that can be really 
overwhelming for runners who 

601
00:29:12,151 --> 00:29:15,223
like, like me and you, like, we 
don't have very much time, 

602
00:29:15,223 --> 00:29:17,160
right? 
We got kids, we got jobs, we got

603
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:18,629
multiple jobs. 
We got all kinds of stuff we're 

604
00:29:18,629 --> 00:29:20,729
doing. 
So trying to fit an additional 

605
00:29:20,729 --> 00:29:22,679
thing in there is really 
challenging. 

606
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,385
And so what I'm hoping to get 
out of this is teaching people 

607
00:29:26,385 --> 00:29:29,805
and having a conversation with 
you about, like you said, how to

608
00:29:29,805 --> 00:29:31,885
simplify this, right? 
You want your any weight 

609
00:29:31,885 --> 00:29:33,598
training that you do or strength
training. 

610
00:29:33,599 --> 00:29:36,047
I'm going to call it strength 
training because it can or not 

611
00:29:36,047 --> 00:29:38,291
can or not involve weights 
depending on the load and what 

612
00:29:38,291 --> 00:29:41,185
you do. 
Um, but you should it should be 

613
00:29:41,185 --> 00:29:44,100
simple and should be doable. 
And I deal with this with 

614
00:29:44,100 --> 00:29:46,369
patients all the time that if 
you, and I tell students this, 

615
00:29:46,369 --> 00:29:49,015
if you give to people too many 
things to do that takes too much

616
00:29:49,015 --> 00:29:50,338
time, they're not going to do 
it. 

617
00:29:50,339 --> 00:29:53,839
If you want to do something 
that's sustainable, it's gotta 

618
00:29:53,839 --> 00:29:56,765
be manageable. 
And I'm going to say this right 

619
00:29:56,765 --> 00:29:58,990
now. 
For most runners, you don't need

620
00:29:58,990 --> 00:30:02,477
to be in the, doing strength 
training for more than like, 

621
00:30:02,477 --> 00:30:06,410
like 10, maybe 20 minutes max. 
Like, you need to pick a couple 

622
00:30:06,410 --> 00:30:08,990
things that are really specific.
You can knock them out a few 

623
00:30:08,990 --> 00:30:10,439
times a week and be done and 
move on. 

624
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,190
Because the other thing you have
to realize is that you're 

625
00:30:13,190 --> 00:30:15,440
training for running, you're not
training for strength training, 

626
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,939
and they can get, they can get 
in the way. 

627
00:30:17,940 --> 00:30:22,078
So do you mind if I break up 
some myths? 

628
00:30:22,079 --> 00:30:24,659
Yeah, that'd be great. 
Great. 

629
00:30:24,660 --> 00:30:26,399
Can I say one quick thing to do 
for it? 

630
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,968
before you... 
I think you mentioned this deal 

631
00:30:28,968 --> 00:30:32,125
idea of you're training for 
running and lifting can get in 

632
00:30:32,125 --> 00:30:34,779
the way. 
I think one thing that's true is

633
00:30:34,779 --> 00:30:38,042
like most weight training isn't 
going to make you a worse 

634
00:30:38,042 --> 00:30:39,215
runner. 
It's probably like doing 

635
00:30:39,215 --> 00:30:41,399
something is going to be make 
you a better runner. 

636
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,734
I think the thing, though, that 
does conflict is that running 

637
00:30:45,734 --> 00:30:49,265
takes a ton of energy. 
And especially if you're doing 

638
00:30:49,265 --> 00:30:52,395
long distance stuff or high 
mileage, you need to be 

639
00:30:52,395 --> 00:30:54,899
inputting a lot of energy into 
your body. 

640
00:30:54,900 --> 00:30:59,467
And then if you add these hour 
long lifts, you need even more 

641
00:30:59,467 --> 00:31:01,667
energy. 
And at some point, you have to 

642
00:31:01,667 --> 00:31:04,307
make sure that you're balancing 
the amount of energy expenditure

643
00:31:04,307 --> 00:31:06,419
with what you can get into your 
body. 

644
00:31:06,420 --> 00:31:09,588
And so we want the lifting to 
supplement the running, not to 

645
00:31:09,588 --> 00:31:12,756
be, because if we can't recover,
we can't have raw running, get 

646
00:31:12,756 --> 00:31:14,731
better. 
So we can't have it take away 

647
00:31:14,731 --> 00:31:16,439
from our recovery by doing too 
much. 

648
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,482
So your concept of very low for 
the purpose of running is 

649
00:31:20,482 --> 00:31:22,259
meaningful. 
But yeah, let's do some myth 

650
00:31:22,259 --> 00:31:23,844
busting. 
So yeah, let me actually combine

651
00:31:23,844 --> 00:31:26,081
what you just said with 
something else that's, I'm going

652
00:31:26,081 --> 00:31:27,838
to refine it a little bit. 
right? 

653
00:31:27,839 --> 00:31:31,019
So one of the things that we've 
talked about, one of the things 

654
00:31:31,019 --> 00:31:33,703
that is now being blasted on 
social media is that saying 

655
00:31:33,703 --> 00:31:34,679
stray training prevents 
injuries. 

656
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:39,755
It doesn't, actually. 
It can reduce the risk of them 

657
00:31:39,755 --> 00:31:42,479
if done right. 
But you can also increase the 

658
00:31:42,479 --> 00:31:45,559
risk of overtraining if you do 
accessive amounts of training in

659
00:31:45,559 --> 00:31:47,089
general. 
That does not excuse train 

660
00:31:47,089 --> 00:31:47,699
training. 
Okay? 

661
00:31:47,700 --> 00:31:50,120
I know lots of patients who are 
overtraining and they've got, 

662
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:51,659
they're like, I don't run that 
much. 

663
00:31:51,660 --> 00:31:53,757
I don't understand why I'm 
getting injured and they're 

664
00:31:53,757 --> 00:31:55,618
strength training 4 to 5 days a 
week. 

665
00:31:55,619 --> 00:31:58,769
They're running every day, and 
they're at Orange Theory, and 

666
00:31:58,769 --> 00:32:01,919
they're on the, I'm like, all 
right, like, there's, there's 

667
00:32:01,919 --> 00:32:05,384
only so much training volume 
that your body can handle, and 

668
00:32:05,384 --> 00:32:08,849
you can overtrain and you can 
induce an injury by overloading 

669
00:32:08,849 --> 00:32:11,237
your body. 
And so not knowing how to like 

670
00:32:11,237 --> 00:32:13,489
integrate your strength training
and making sure you're doing 

671
00:32:13,489 --> 00:32:16,489
enough to get the stimulus you 
want and not adding to the 

672
00:32:16,489 --> 00:32:17,080
overtraining. 
Exactly. 

673
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,079
That can hurt you, right? 
So strength training doesn't 

674
00:32:20,079 --> 00:32:23,327
prevent injuries, and it won't, 
it won't excuse dumb training, 

675
00:32:23,327 --> 00:32:25,919
and that includes doing too much
in general. 

676
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:30,240
If done correctly, it can reduce
the risk of injury, but you 

677
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,838
cannot prevent injuries because 
you can still do dumb stuff. 

678
00:32:33,839 --> 00:32:35,459
Nothing makes you invincible, 
okay? 

679
00:32:35,460 --> 00:32:39,354
So you can have a day with low 
sleep and high stress and you, 

680
00:32:39,354 --> 00:32:41,578
you know, every, you did 
everything else, right? 

681
00:32:41,579 --> 00:32:45,580
You got sick and then... 
So, so 2 things, strength 

682
00:32:45,580 --> 00:32:47,098
training doesn't prevent 
injuries. 

683
00:32:47,099 --> 00:32:51,075
It can reduce the risk of them, 
but it has to be done well 

684
00:32:51,075 --> 00:32:53,159
appropriately. 
And strength training is an 

685
00:32:53,159 --> 00:32:55,507
additional variable. 
When you add that in, it's gonna

686
00:32:55,507 --> 00:32:57,363
affect your training because 
you've now added another 

687
00:32:57,363 --> 00:32:59,219
variable for your body to get 
used to. 

688
00:32:59,220 --> 00:33:02,329
Okay? 
There's generally 3 variables in

689
00:33:02,329 --> 00:33:05,338
running training, frequency 
duration and intensity. 

690
00:33:05,339 --> 00:33:06,934
Okay? 
Frequency is how often you're 

691
00:33:06,934 --> 00:33:09,915
training, duration is how long 
you're going, either each day or

692
00:33:09,915 --> 00:33:13,167
total volume in the week, and 
intensity is how much, how fast 

693
00:33:13,167 --> 00:33:16,139
or how frequently fast or like 
what the intensity is going. 

694
00:33:16,140 --> 00:33:18,426
Okay? 
The general rule is that during 

695
00:33:18,426 --> 00:33:21,636
a training program, like base 
training early stuff, you really

696
00:33:21,636 --> 00:33:24,838
should only be increasing one 
primary variable at a time. 

697
00:33:24,839 --> 00:33:27,439
And if you're going to do a 
bunch of them, you have to back 

698
00:33:27,439 --> 00:33:28,919
them off and not increase them 
as quick. 

699
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,439
Adding strain training is 
another variable. 

700
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,950
So if you add too many things at
once, that's how you overload 

701
00:33:34,950 --> 00:33:36,838
tissue and that might contribute
to energy. 

702
00:33:36,839 --> 00:33:39,754
I am not saying strange training
can causes injuries, I'm saying 

703
00:33:39,754 --> 00:33:42,659
how you add new variables in 
needs to be done carefully. 

704
00:33:42,660 --> 00:33:45,058
And strength training is an 
adjunct. 

705
00:33:45,059 --> 00:33:47,459
It does impact training time. 
Okay? 

706
00:33:47,460 --> 00:33:50,419
So, like, we totally get. 
And Nathan, I just said this, 

707
00:33:50,419 --> 00:33:52,247
totally get going. hey we've 
already got a lot of stuff going

708
00:33:52,247 --> 00:33:54,153
on. 
How am I supposed to add this 

709
00:33:54,153 --> 00:33:56,999
in, okay? 
And so it needs to be doable. 

710
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,058
That's why I tell people, no 
more than 10, 20 minutes, okay? 

711
00:34:00,059 --> 00:34:02,789
It does, you do more than that, 
it's going to take away from 

712
00:34:02,789 --> 00:34:04,215
training. 
If you're a professional runner 

713
00:34:04,215 --> 00:34:06,884
or you're a collegiate athlete, 
you've got the time, the energy 

714
00:34:06,884 --> 00:34:08,578
you're able to focus on this, 
great. 

715
00:34:08,579 --> 00:34:12,632
Most of us aren't that. 
So be specific and be very 

716
00:34:12,632 --> 00:34:15,060
intentional. 
And that goes into my next point

717
00:34:15,060 --> 00:34:18,454
is that, to be honest with you, 
strength training does it make 

718
00:34:18,454 --> 00:34:21,054
you faster. 
It improves your capacity to 

719
00:34:21,054 --> 00:34:25,120
train and probably handle things
like running faster or doing 

720
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,583
things like that. 
But by itself just makes, it 

721
00:34:28,583 --> 00:34:32,324
does, it creases your strength 
or whatever variable of doing, 

722
00:34:32,324 --> 00:34:33,976
right? 
So that by itself, it's, you 

723
00:34:33,976 --> 00:34:36,533
still need to pair this with 
smart training to get the goals 

724
00:34:36,533 --> 00:34:39,293
you want to do, and that means 
running still needs to be your 

725
00:34:39,293 --> 00:34:41,304
primary thing. 
And finally, this type of 

726
00:34:41,304 --> 00:34:44,158
strength training you need do 
needs to be specific. 

727
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:47,398
Not all strength training is the
same. 

728
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,608
And I'm going to argue right now
that I think really high volume 

729
00:34:51,608 --> 00:34:54,838
strength training for most 
people is not a good idea. 

730
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:59,130
I think it gets in the way of 
like, I'm talking like really 

731
00:34:59,130 --> 00:35:03,090
high rap, really like, you know,
like very high volume, lots of 

732
00:35:03,090 --> 00:35:06,058
time in the gym, lots of weights
being moved. 

733
00:35:06,059 --> 00:35:09,478
I don't think that's a great 
idea for most guys. 

734
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,098
These long classes. 
Yes, yeah. 

735
00:35:11,099 --> 00:35:16,910
I think to be honest with you, 
the best thing for runners is 

736
00:35:16,910 --> 00:35:21,827
10, 20 minutes, 2 or 3 
exercises, and just higher load,

737
00:35:21,827 --> 00:35:27,821
less reps, and be done. 
Quick, good stimulus. move on so

738
00:35:27,821 --> 00:35:29,759
you don't get in the way of your
other training. 

739
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,559
Yeah. 
I think what's important with 

740
00:35:32,559 --> 00:35:35,639
this, because I'm agreeing with 
everything you're saying, and I 

741
00:35:35,639 --> 00:35:38,719
think I like that you're taking 
these quippy statements, and 

742
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,491
we've even referenced things 
like playometrics can have an 

743
00:35:41,491 --> 00:35:45,178
impact on running economy, but 
they can't be done in a vacuum. 

744
00:35:45,179 --> 00:35:47,749
Like if you never run, 
blyometrics aren't going to make

745
00:35:47,749 --> 00:35:51,086
you a better runner, you need 
you need the cocktail of all of 

746
00:35:51,086 --> 00:35:52,975
these things. 
And so I like the nuance that 

747
00:35:52,975 --> 00:35:55,498
you're bringing to it. 
And I think one other... 

748
00:35:55,500 --> 00:35:57,478
Oh, you want to finish that 
before I have? 

749
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,759
Yeah, you're probably about 
ready to say the same thing. 

750
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,558
But different runners also need 
different types or different 

751
00:36:02,558 --> 00:36:04,220
amounts, right? 
Your ultra professional 

752
00:36:04,220 --> 00:36:06,996
ultramarathoner maybe might 
benefit from some higher volume,

753
00:36:06,996 --> 00:36:10,466
although I might, I might 
disagree, but I could totally 

754
00:36:10,466 --> 00:36:13,584
see specificity of training 
going, hey, some higher volume 

755
00:36:13,584 --> 00:36:17,044
stuff or maybe some unstable 
surface training, if you're a 

756
00:36:17,044 --> 00:36:19,812
trail runner, everybody's going 
to need slightly different 

757
00:36:19,812 --> 00:36:21,929
thing. 
So, I will definitely tell you 

758
00:36:21,929 --> 00:36:24,879
what I'm doing right now, and 
there's very specific reasons 

759
00:36:24,879 --> 00:36:28,114
I've chosen each thing based on 
where load is happening, the 

760
00:36:28,114 --> 00:36:29,878
most clap, where classic 
injuries happen. 

761
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:31,254
But also everybody needs 
something different. 

762
00:36:31,254 --> 00:36:34,222
And you kind of have to figure 
out what works for you, what 

763
00:36:34,222 --> 00:36:36,958
works for your time and what 
works that you can recover from.

764
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,786
Exactly. 
I, the, the other nuance I was 

765
00:36:40,786 --> 00:36:44,106
going to bring to it is, 
putting, the lifting weight 

766
00:36:44,106 --> 00:36:47,758
training side of it is assuming 
that your main squeeze, the 

767
00:36:47,758 --> 00:36:52,074
things that brings you the most 
joy in terms of moving your body

768
00:36:52,074 --> 00:36:54,074
is running. 
And so you wanted, everything 

769
00:36:54,074 --> 00:36:57,272
that you would do would be to 
help you accomplish that bigger 

770
00:36:57,272 --> 00:36:58,965
goal. 
You might be one of these people

771
00:36:58,965 --> 00:37:01,198
who's out there like, no, I love
being in the gym. 

772
00:37:01,199 --> 00:37:04,361
I love lifting. 
Like, I love working on my, you 

773
00:37:04,361 --> 00:37:08,028
know, one rep max for squat and 
deadlift and like working for 

774
00:37:08,028 --> 00:37:10,773
certain goals, then this, these 
points aren't necessarily for 

775
00:37:10,773 --> 00:37:14,433
you exactly, but you still need 
to consider the nuance of the 

776
00:37:14,433 --> 00:37:17,475
balance of all your training. 
Actually, I would disagree with 

777
00:37:17,475 --> 00:37:21,110
you, but the other direction 
that I think the same, the same 

778
00:37:21,110 --> 00:37:25,016
concept is really important. 
If you like being in the gym and

779
00:37:25,016 --> 00:37:28,378
your focus is one rec max or 
your hypertrovy stuff. 

780
00:37:28,380 --> 00:37:31,080
I hate to tell you this, running
is going to get in the way of 

781
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,008
that. 
I know everybody's like, 

782
00:37:33,008 --> 00:37:37,558
everybody wants to be the hybrid
athlete, but when you... yeah 

783
00:37:37,559 --> 00:37:39,838
When everybody... maybe you 
don't have big goals for either.

784
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,518
You just love doing them. 
Oh, that's fair. 

785
00:37:41,519 --> 00:37:43,018
Yeah that's fair. 
That's who I'm saying. 

786
00:37:43,019 --> 00:37:44,638
That's fair. 
I just love to do both. 

787
00:37:44,639 --> 00:37:47,733
Yeah, you just have to know that
if you are choosing to do both 

788
00:37:47,733 --> 00:37:50,818
at higher levels, they are going
to get in the way of each other.

789
00:37:50,820 --> 00:37:53,496
And that's that's not anybody's 
fault and I'm not trying to be 

790
00:37:53,496 --> 00:37:55,498
rude and I'm not trying to put 
anybody down. 

791
00:37:55,500 --> 00:37:58,439
Absolutely not. 
In fact, I'm just letting you 

792
00:37:58,439 --> 00:38:02,619
know that your improvements in 
each one are probably not going 

793
00:38:02,619 --> 00:38:06,419
to go as fast because you're 
creating 2 very different 

794
00:38:06,419 --> 00:38:10,219
stimulus side by side that are a
bit counterproductive to 

795
00:38:10,219 --> 00:38:12,280
maximizing one. 
Whereas you can definitely use 

796
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,660
what when you use one as an 
adjunct to the other, it can 

797
00:38:15,660 --> 00:38:18,876
really be supportive. 
But trying to do too many things

798
00:38:18,876 --> 00:38:21,612
at once, right? 
That's not, we all can't be 

799
00:38:21,612 --> 00:38:24,432
Brian Clay, where we'd be this 
amazing decathlete that's really

800
00:38:24,432 --> 00:38:28,798
good at everything, right? 
So that's it's just how it goes.

801
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,318
Everybody knows who Brian Clay 
is, right? 

802
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,538
Okay. 
I don't think I do. 

803
00:38:33,539 --> 00:38:37,678
Okay. 
Amazing gold medalist. 

804
00:38:37,679 --> 00:38:39,109
I was going to say, that 
shouldn't be surprising for me, 

805
00:38:39,109 --> 00:38:40,877
though. 
Like, I'm not in, I'm not very 

806
00:38:40,877 --> 00:38:43,678
knowledgeable in a lot of ways, 
and this is one of them. 

807
00:38:43,679 --> 00:38:47,347
But I think I think the other 
thing to be said, though, is if 

808
00:38:47,347 --> 00:38:49,967
you are someone who has 
nominally worked towards any of 

809
00:38:49,967 --> 00:38:53,111
these goals, you end up loving 
wanting to get into lifting and 

810
00:38:53,111 --> 00:38:56,779
running at the same time, that's
not to say that you can't make a

811
00:38:56,779 --> 00:39:00,709
one more at max way higher than 
it used to be and run a faster 

812
00:39:00,709 --> 00:39:03,058
marathon than you've ever ran at
the same time. 

813
00:39:03,059 --> 00:39:06,587
Both of those can happen. 
What you're saying is that if 

814
00:39:06,587 --> 00:39:09,862
you want to maximize your 
absolute potential in one, it's 

815
00:39:09,862 --> 00:39:12,478
harder to maximize your absolute
potential in both. 

816
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,578
But it doesn't mean that both 
can't be very good. 

817
00:39:14,579 --> 00:39:17,869
Yeah, you can make both happen. 
It's probably and there's going 

818
00:39:17,869 --> 00:39:21,225
to be exceptions to this, okay? 
This is not a hard fast rule, 

819
00:39:21,225 --> 00:39:24,285
but most people aren't going to 
make as big of improvements in 

820
00:39:24,285 --> 00:39:26,639
both at the same time. 
They still, not that you can't 

821
00:39:26,639 --> 00:39:28,919
get better. 
It's just that's basic 

822
00:39:28,919 --> 00:39:31,199
physiology. 
And you got to be able to. 

823
00:39:31,199 --> 00:39:33,247
And you got to be able to... 
Yeah. 

824
00:39:33,247 --> 00:39:36,700
Like, because if you want to get
good at marathon in, you got to 

825
00:39:36,700 --> 00:39:39,439
run a lot. 
And you might not be able to be 

826
00:39:39,439 --> 00:39:42,178
able to handle running a lot and
lifting at that intensity. 

827
00:39:42,179 --> 00:39:45,819
So it's usually being able to be
really good at both is going to 

828
00:39:45,819 --> 00:39:49,459
take you a lot of time and just 
like, just like new runners get 

829
00:39:49,459 --> 00:39:52,826
hurt at a really high rate 
because they do way too much too

830
00:39:52,826 --> 00:39:54,898
fast, typically that can happen 
with lifting too. 

831
00:39:54,900 --> 00:39:58,029
We're not speaking. not speaking
negatively, by the way, of 

832
00:39:58,029 --> 00:40:00,298
people that do the multisport or
the high rock stuff like that. 

833
00:40:00,300 --> 00:40:03,976
This is just basic physiology 
that, yeah, and there's some 

834
00:40:03,976 --> 00:40:08,727
people that do very well, both. 
And if you love doing high rocks

835
00:40:08,727 --> 00:40:12,358
courses with classes with your 
friends and whatever, do it. 

836
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,000
Yeah, absolutely. do that. 
absolutely do that and just make

837
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,992
sure that you're managing your 
recovery and all of the load and

838
00:40:17,992 --> 00:40:20,980
if you're a person who's already
gotten there, you're going to be

839
00:40:20,980 --> 00:40:22,595
just fine. 
I've had lots of those 

840
00:40:22,595 --> 00:40:24,598
conversations recently with a 
couple high rocks athletes where

841
00:40:24,598 --> 00:40:27,484
it's like, man, you were like, 
I'm not trying to hold you back,

842
00:40:27,484 --> 00:40:29,038
but you jumped into this really 
quick. 

843
00:40:29,039 --> 00:40:32,632
I am not surprised you're... 
I not trying to be mean, but you

844
00:40:32,632 --> 00:40:34,918
add a bunch of variables at the 
same time. 

845
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,386
Right. 
That's not saying you can't do 

846
00:40:37,386 --> 00:40:40,906
this just, you know, you did 
more training, more recovery, 

847
00:40:40,906 --> 00:40:43,018
more energy, more all this 
stuff. 

848
00:40:43,019 --> 00:40:45,989
It takes time. 
And I think the other part I'm 

849
00:40:45,989 --> 00:40:49,142
reflecting on right now is we're
having this conversation is that

850
00:40:49,142 --> 00:40:52,574
you and I have a very biased 
viewpoint on the world because 

851
00:40:52,574 --> 00:40:56,292
who we work with most of the 
time are the people who are 

852
00:40:56,292 --> 00:40:58,889
injured. 
And so we have data that says 

853
00:40:58,889 --> 00:41:02,518
most runners get injured at some
point, even within the year. 

854
00:41:02,519 --> 00:41:06,118
But at the same time, that's who
we interact with. 

855
00:41:06,119 --> 00:41:09,089
And so we interact with the 
decisions that people make that 

856
00:41:09,089 --> 00:41:12,059
land them into those decisions, 
into those positions or the life

857
00:41:12,059 --> 00:41:15,029
circumstances that land them in 
those positions and doing all of

858
00:41:15,029 --> 00:41:18,538
these things that seem like, oh,
I should be able to handle that.

859
00:41:18,539 --> 00:41:20,938
It's just really, really hard to
do. 

860
00:41:20,940 --> 00:41:25,377
I think what would be 
interesting, Matt, is to, is to 

861
00:41:25,377 --> 00:41:28,198
hear what your typical workout 
routine is. 

862
00:41:28,199 --> 00:41:29,938
I'm happy to share mine too 
right now. 

863
00:41:29,940 --> 00:41:33,790
And, uh, again, not as a 
prescriptive thing because as 

864
00:41:33,790 --> 00:41:37,640
you said, everyone's going to 
have different goals, but I 

865
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,875
think both of our lifting 
routines are in that category of

866
00:41:41,875 --> 00:41:45,838
people who love to run. 
And that's our priority. 

867
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:50,878
And we want our lifting to 
support that goal of running. 

868
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:52,858
So that's what we're coming in 
with. 

869
00:41:52,860 --> 00:41:55,438
But do you want to go 1st on 
what your routine looks like? 

870
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,467
Sure. 
I'm actually going to back up 

871
00:41:57,467 --> 00:41:59,600
the things that I'm talking 
about with little education 

872
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,259
about just basic running 
biomechanics and loads. 

873
00:42:01,260 --> 00:42:04,160
So that's actually how I 
eventually kind of settle on 

874
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:05,902
this stuff. 
The original part was going, 

875
00:42:05,902 --> 00:42:08,918
yes, I need to do my heel, my 
heavy heel left, which my 

876
00:42:08,918 --> 00:42:11,098
Achilles tenon is doing great. 
right now. 

877
00:42:11,099 --> 00:42:13,378
And I finally, the mid portion 
is doing great. 

878
00:42:13,380 --> 00:42:16,702
I just was trying to get over 
that last hump of the 

879
00:42:16,702 --> 00:42:19,186
insertional, and it's for those 
who don't know, social 

880
00:42:19,186 --> 00:42:21,718
technopathy is very difficult to
get there. a bugger. 

881
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:23,998
I think what finally helped it 
had high enough load. 

882
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,188
And then I was able to, like, 
like, had a slightly, like, 

883
00:42:27,188 --> 00:42:31,428
missed a day or 2 for a week and
so had some time to recover and 

884
00:42:31,428 --> 00:42:34,078
then added the, like, was able 
to tolerate some stress. 

885
00:42:34,079 --> 00:42:37,022
I may or may not have also 
pulled my calf on that side, 

886
00:42:37,022 --> 00:42:39,056
which didn't, I thank goodness 
for the strength training, 

887
00:42:39,056 --> 00:42:41,994
didn't bother me, like I could 
run, and I could, it was, like, 

888
00:42:41,994 --> 00:42:44,030
irritability was so low. 
It was like, I definitely pulled

889
00:42:44,030 --> 00:42:45,418
it. 
Still run. 

890
00:42:45,420 --> 00:42:48,098
It's tended to touch, but then I
had a lot, like, much better 

891
00:42:48,098 --> 00:42:50,982
range of boat, like a little bit
better range of motion, so I was

892
00:42:50,982 --> 00:42:53,038
actually able to handle my 
Achilles 10 is still intact. 

893
00:42:53,039 --> 00:42:56,709
I checked it with diagnostical 
sound, be like, uh, Thompson 

894
00:42:56,709 --> 00:42:59,278
tests negative, ultrasound, the 
thing's still intact. 

895
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,127
Okay. 
But I can now actually get off a

896
00:43:02,127 --> 00:43:05,548
step now with the heel raises, 
which is made probably the 

897
00:43:05,548 --> 00:43:08,668
biggest difference recently. 
But anyway, um, so do a lot of 

898
00:43:08,668 --> 00:43:11,125
heel raises, obviously, because 
of the history of Achilles 

899
00:43:11,125 --> 00:43:13,012
anenopathy. 
So definitely loading that in 

900
00:43:13,012 --> 00:43:15,618
this long-term journey. 
But I want to talk about 

901
00:43:15,618 --> 00:43:18,070
thinking about the loads that we
experienced during running 

902
00:43:18,070 --> 00:43:20,246
because that's what's really 
influenced my current program, 

903
00:43:20,246 --> 00:43:22,265
right? 
So if you understand, like, and 

904
00:43:22,265 --> 00:43:25,466
this is not all encompassing, 
but it's talking about what are 

905
00:43:25,466 --> 00:43:28,078
the primary things that these 
joints and muscles do. 

906
00:43:28,079 --> 00:43:30,867
Okay? 
So if you look at the ankle, the

907
00:43:30,867 --> 00:43:33,958
ankle does do a little shock 
absorption, but really most of 

908
00:43:33,958 --> 00:43:36,478
the loads associated with the 
ankle happen during propulsion. 

909
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:38,256
Okay? 
The soleus, the planter 

910
00:43:38,256 --> 00:43:41,168
flexures, everything that pushes
that ankle, the majority of 

911
00:43:41,168 --> 00:43:44,075
propulsion during running at 
normal speeds happens to the 

912
00:43:44,075 --> 00:43:45,820
ankle. 
Okay, happens through the 

913
00:43:45,820 --> 00:43:48,298
Achilles tendon, happens through
the soleus muscles. 

914
00:43:48,300 --> 00:43:52,318
And so my 1st exercise that I do
is heavy heel raises. 

915
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,700
And again, I'm looking to make 
tissue changes, not necessarily 

916
00:43:55,700 --> 00:43:58,738
looking to, um, and and like 
support my running. 

917
00:43:58,739 --> 00:44:02,550
So I don't do high volume. 
I will do very heavy weight 

918
00:44:02,550 --> 00:44:05,098
anywhere from single leg, like 
7500. 

919
00:44:05,099 --> 00:44:09,355
This has taken a long time to 
build up to, and I modify it 

920
00:44:09,355 --> 00:44:11,782
depending on any new stimulus I 
add in. 

921
00:44:11,782 --> 00:44:15,721
Like, I just dropped the weight 
to £50 when I added the negative

922
00:44:15,721 --> 00:44:19,963
heel drop in there, but £7500, 4
to 6 reps, max, 3 sets really 

923
00:44:19,963 --> 00:44:22,900
moving slow through that motion.
Just trying to load muscle, 

924
00:44:22,900 --> 00:44:26,308
tendon, single leg, just because
I know these things take a lot 

925
00:44:26,308 --> 00:44:29,998
of low, they need to be able to 
produce it and tolerate it. 

926
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:31,738
Okay? 
So that's my 1st one. 

927
00:44:31,739 --> 00:44:36,034
Second one. hip and the knee 
really do quite well. and the 

928
00:44:36,034 --> 00:44:39,238
majority, while they do a little
bit more as you get faster, 

929
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:41,398
their major function is shock 
absorption. 

930
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,540
Okay? 
Most of those muscles, the 

931
00:44:43,540 --> 00:44:46,858
quadricep, the glute muscles, 
are most active when you land. 

932
00:44:46,860 --> 00:44:49,423
They helped absorb all the 
forces, which is also, if you 

933
00:44:49,423 --> 00:44:52,219
look at a lot of running 
injuries, where a lot of running

934
00:44:52,219 --> 00:44:54,960
injuries come from. dealing with
eccentric and the loading 

935
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:56,895
related to landing. 
That's why, like, 

936
00:44:56,895 --> 00:45:00,250
patelophomoral, shin splints are
kind of the top 2 injuries that 

937
00:45:00,250 --> 00:45:02,385
people experience, and then 
Achilles tentenopathy is 

938
00:45:02,385 --> 00:45:03,718
generally number three. 
Okay? 

939
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:05,818
So it's like shock absorption, 
then propulsion. 

940
00:45:05,820 --> 00:45:09,859
Okay? 
So, of the gluteo muscles, 

941
00:45:09,859 --> 00:45:11,861
right? 
So this is where I love step 

942
00:45:11,861 --> 00:45:14,490
ups, because step ups usually do
a great job of loading the knee 

943
00:45:14,490 --> 00:45:17,449
and the hip joint. 
But if you actually look at the 

944
00:45:17,449 --> 00:45:20,212
different glute muscles, it's 
actually the hip abductors that 

945
00:45:20,212 --> 00:45:23,278
take a lot more body weight than
the hip extensors. 

946
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,834
So your lateral butt muscles 
take 4 to 5 times body weight 

947
00:45:26,834 --> 00:45:29,390
with each running step. 
Your hippic sensors don't do 

948
00:45:29,390 --> 00:45:31,318
that much. 
It's like one. 3.3. 

949
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,433
Obviously, again, changes as you
run faster, but those later ones

950
00:45:34,433 --> 00:45:37,546
take a lot more force, and 
there's a lot greater incidence 

951
00:45:37,546 --> 00:45:40,376
of greater trocanteric pain 
syndrome and all those kind of 

952
00:45:40,376 --> 00:45:43,206
lateral hit IT band syndrome, 
all those things associate with 

953
00:45:43,206 --> 00:45:46,036
the hip-up ductors, are much 
more common injuries than your 

954
00:45:46,036 --> 00:45:48,583
high hamstring tenenopathies or 
your glute, your post, your 

955
00:45:48,583 --> 00:45:51,696
glute stuff, until you become an
older master's runner, and then 

956
00:45:51,696 --> 00:45:54,238
that kind of switches, but 
that's a different story. 

957
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,994
Okay, so I, my 2nd exercise is 
the lateral step up, because the

958
00:45:57,994 --> 00:46:01,738
lateral step up has been shown 
to have some great load of the 

959
00:46:01,738 --> 00:46:04,906
glute mead and glute media some 
hip abductor muscles while still

960
00:46:04,906 --> 00:46:08,808
loading the knee joint. 
So I get kind of the lateral hip

961
00:46:08,808 --> 00:46:12,238
muscles that I'm looking to hit,
both concentric and eccentric. 

962
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,289
And this is the same thing. 4 to
6 reps, pretty heavy weight that

963
00:46:15,289 --> 00:46:17,219
I'm struggling through. 
Partially because I want to load

964
00:46:17,219 --> 00:46:19,559
the tissue and partially is I 
don't want to do too many of 

965
00:46:19,559 --> 00:46:21,178
these and I want to be done 
quick, right? 

966
00:46:21,179 --> 00:46:23,206
This is usually done after 
Isabel has gone to bed at like 

967
00:46:23,206 --> 00:46:25,921
10 o'clock at night. either 
before or after I'm trying to 

968
00:46:25,921 --> 00:46:28,545
shoot a video at the same time. 
So it's like... 

969
00:46:28,545 --> 00:46:31,199
When do you fall asleep? 
Yeah, like, uh, Exercising 

970
00:46:31,199 --> 00:46:33,312
before bed, probably. 
Anyway, I get it. 

971
00:46:33,312 --> 00:46:36,300
You got to fix stuff in somehow.
It's not a great, but hey, man, 

972
00:46:36,300 --> 00:46:39,174
I'm just trying to fit stuff in.
That's why I'm like, hey, dude, 

973
00:46:39,174 --> 00:46:42,370
for those out there going, how 
the heck am I going to fix this 

974
00:46:42,370 --> 00:46:43,618
in? 
I get it. 

975
00:46:43,619 --> 00:46:45,778
I get it. 
Okay? 

976
00:46:45,780 --> 00:46:48,306
Not judging. 
The last one that I've been 

977
00:46:48,306 --> 00:46:51,837
doing has been a balance between
doing a little bit of 

978
00:46:51,837 --> 00:46:54,718
plowmetrics, just general double
leg, lorx, Germany stuff, just 

979
00:46:54,718 --> 00:46:58,558
working on being able to like 
really react off the ground, and

980
00:46:58,558 --> 00:47:00,478
part of that's because power, 
okay? 

981
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,998
something that we as runners 
don't often work on a lot. 

982
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,746
And the other pieces I know 
based on some of the research 

983
00:47:05,746 --> 00:47:08,938
I've been doing that we tend to 
lose that as we get older, okay,

984
00:47:08,938 --> 00:47:11,159
at a very fast rate. 
So we're just adding just a 

985
00:47:11,159 --> 00:47:12,178
teeny band. 
And this is even less. 

986
00:47:12,179 --> 00:47:16,391
This is like 3 to 4 reps, just 
really quality, like squat jump,

987
00:47:16,391 --> 00:47:18,658
just really quick getting off 
the ground. 

988
00:47:18,659 --> 00:47:21,679
Or what's been more frequent 
that I've been doing just 

989
00:47:21,679 --> 00:47:25,001
because I just like this as a 
general exercise, is doing 

990
00:47:25,001 --> 00:47:28,021
really heavy deadlifts and just 
going, hey, straight leg, trying

991
00:47:28,021 --> 00:47:31,343
to, again, I know I said the 
posterior hip muscles don't 

992
00:47:31,343 --> 00:47:35,269
maybe get as much, but having a 
little bit of a history of 

993
00:47:35,269 --> 00:47:37,078
post-er hamstring, like upper 
hamstring tenopathy. 

994
00:47:37,079 --> 00:47:39,838
I'll do a little bit of heavy 
deadlifts for 2 reasons. 

995
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,620
One, just to load that and keep 
loading that tendon so it can 

996
00:47:42,620 --> 00:47:45,696
handle running faster. 
And the other pieces, I like, I 

997
00:47:45,696 --> 00:47:49,872
just want a little bit more time
moving something really heavy in

998
00:47:49,872 --> 00:47:53,700
a double limposition because I 
know that when you do high 

999
00:47:53,700 --> 00:47:57,180
weight, low rep, double limb 
exercises, you typically get a 

1000
00:47:57,180 --> 00:48:00,480
little bit more bone stimulus. 
And that's that last piece that 

1001
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,898
I'm looking for. 
And so those are my three, and 

1002
00:48:02,898 --> 00:48:05,699
the last one kind of varies 
depending on what my goals are 

1003
00:48:05,699 --> 00:48:08,495
at that moment and kind of 
what's going on, and I don't 

1004
00:48:08,495 --> 00:48:10,825
typically do a lot of 
pliometrics when I'm in the 

1005
00:48:10,825 --> 00:48:12,922
middle of really hard training, 
because it's another variable, 

1006
00:48:12,922 --> 00:48:15,718
but like base phase, I'll kind 
of add a little bit more. 

1007
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:20,458
But those are my three, 10, 15 
minutes done. move on. 

1008
00:48:20,460 --> 00:48:23,650
And it's been great. 
I made some really significant 

1009
00:48:23,650 --> 00:48:26,703
changes in how things feel, some
of the stuff that I've 

1010
00:48:26,703 --> 00:48:29,196
experienced and modified some 
symptoms, and then honestly just

1011
00:48:29,196 --> 00:48:32,797
felt, I know I said this doesn't
make you faster, but just having

1012
00:48:32,797 --> 00:48:35,567
lots more stable hip, especially
hitting the lateral step ups, 

1013
00:48:35,567 --> 00:48:38,614
has made running feel a lot more
stable, and honestly, I'm 

1014
00:48:38,614 --> 00:48:41,661
tolerating some of the unstable 
shoes a little bit better as 

1015
00:48:41,661 --> 00:48:43,018
well. which has been 
interesting. 

1016
00:48:43,019 --> 00:48:46,918
That's great. about you? 
Yeah, I, I, yeah. 

1017
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,328
So I'm new to consistent 
lifting, and I hope that I can, 

1018
00:48:50,328 --> 00:48:53,448
a year from now, say that I've 
been consistent in lifting, 

1019
00:48:53,448 --> 00:48:56,278
because I go through these spats
of like trying it. 

1020
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,820
I know it's good for me and I 
want to work it in at a 

1021
00:48:59,820 --> 00:49:02,178
meaningful level and I have some
accountability friends now that 

1022
00:49:02,178 --> 00:49:04,991
are that are helping. 
There's a guy who graduated from

1023
00:49:04,991 --> 00:49:09,036
the PT program and he works for 
pineries running that I do run 

1024
00:49:09,036 --> 00:49:11,430
coaching with. 
And so he and I have been 

1025
00:49:11,430 --> 00:49:14,719
lifting every week and then I'm 
getting one more in a week and 

1026
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:18,558
it's been working. 
So I have 2 days a week that I 

1027
00:49:18,558 --> 00:49:22,315
lift and I've been slowly 
building what it looks like, but

1028
00:49:22,315 --> 00:49:24,658
because I'm newer. 
This is where it's at right now.

1029
00:49:24,659 --> 00:49:27,766
So I usually warm up for about 5
minutes, walking on the 

1030
00:49:27,766 --> 00:49:30,604
treadmill behind me or like 
riding on the elliptico, on the 

1031
00:49:30,604 --> 00:49:33,550
trainer over there. 
So I'll warm up for a few 

1032
00:49:33,550 --> 00:49:36,030
minutes. 
And then I do about 25 foot 

1033
00:49:36,030 --> 00:49:37,738
contacts of Plio. 
So I have like a bench. 

1034
00:49:37,739 --> 00:49:39,254
I don't know. 
Yeah, you can see the bench, 

1035
00:49:39,254 --> 00:49:41,586
this bench. 
I stand on the bench and I've 

1036
00:49:41,586 --> 00:49:43,798
just been doing landings. 
Yeah. 

1037
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:45,838
Why do you start with the 
playos? 

1038
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:50,554
Um, before my, I, the way I, the
reason I've been doing it is 

1039
00:49:50,554 --> 00:49:53,874
before my body's fatigued. 
I'm doing a landing early, just 

1040
00:49:53,874 --> 00:49:58,138
so that I'm not doing it after 
my muscles are all fatigued out.

1041
00:49:58,139 --> 00:50:00,238
So that's how I've been doing 
it. 

1042
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,941
I totally agree with that. 
So I, when I generally, like, 

1043
00:50:03,941 --> 00:50:07,625
either what I'm working with, I 
work with a lot of ACL 

1044
00:50:07,625 --> 00:50:10,388
replacement, uh, athletes that 
have had ACL replacements right 

1045
00:50:10,388 --> 00:50:13,458
now, and I always prioritize 
doing plyometrics 1st because I 

1046
00:50:13,458 --> 00:50:16,834
don't want them going into plyos
fatigue because the quality just

1047
00:50:16,834 --> 00:50:19,949
goes into the toilet. 
And if you really want to do 

1048
00:50:19,949 --> 00:50:22,260
them Well, you got to do them. 
If you really want the effect, 

1049
00:50:22,260 --> 00:50:24,299
you got to do the well. 
And it doesn't take that much, 

1050
00:50:24,299 --> 00:50:27,466
but you got to do them right. 
And my issue in the past has 

1051
00:50:27,466 --> 00:50:31,274
been I've tried to go too hard, 
too fast, and I end up hurting 

1052
00:50:31,274 --> 00:50:33,178
myself doing my plios, like 
little tweaks. 

1053
00:50:33,179 --> 00:50:40,176
So I've, I, for over a month, I 
just did drop downs into like a 

1054
00:50:40,176 --> 00:50:43,438
double leg, drop down 25 foot 
contacts. 

1055
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:46,531
Recently, I've been doing it, 
drop down, and a counter jump, 

1056
00:50:46,531 --> 00:50:48,778
so drop and then jump on the 
ground. 

1057
00:50:48,780 --> 00:50:49,978
So that's where I'm at right 
now. 

1058
00:50:49,980 --> 00:50:53,600
Just get 25 up to 50 foot 
contacts if I do the counter 

1059
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,920
jump. 
And then I go into day one is 

1060
00:50:56,920 --> 00:51:00,913
like my squat day. 
So I'll just do a squat and then

1061
00:51:00,913 --> 00:51:04,339
I'll do with is heavy. 
I'm building up my weight into 

1062
00:51:04,339 --> 00:51:07,200
heavier weights there. 
And then I do a single leg 

1063
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:09,118
exercise that's kind of working 
my quad. 

1064
00:51:09,119 --> 00:51:12,598
So that'll either be a step up 
or a lunge typically. 

1065
00:51:12,599 --> 00:51:18,418
And then I will do like a set of
core for like. 

1066
00:51:18,420 --> 00:51:22,493
It's honestly like 3 minutes, of
core, like doing a plank on each

1067
00:51:22,493 --> 00:51:25,259
side and something like that. 
So it's day one. 

1068
00:51:25,260 --> 00:51:27,418
It's literally just those couple
lifts. 

1069
00:51:27,420 --> 00:51:31,446
And then day 2 is kind of a 
posterior chain day. 

1070
00:51:31,446 --> 00:51:35,828
And so I'm doing the same warm 
up, same plyometrics, and then 

1071
00:51:35,828 --> 00:51:39,478
I'll either do deadlift or I'll 
do like hip thrusters. 

1072
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:41,578
So one of those 2 is going to 
happen. 

1073
00:51:41,579 --> 00:51:45,958
And then I'll maybe do Nordics 
if usually I do that like when 

1074
00:51:45,958 --> 00:51:49,044
my friend David is here. 
So, like, we'll do Nordics, 

1075
00:51:49,044 --> 00:51:52,697
where you hold the heels and you
slowly lower your body down, or 

1076
00:51:52,697 --> 00:51:55,778
again, another single leg, like 
lateral hip exercise, and then a

1077
00:51:55,778 --> 00:51:58,020
core thing. 
So those are my 2 days, that's 

1078
00:51:58,020 --> 00:52:01,298
all I'm doing right now. 
I don't actually plan for it to 

1079
00:52:01,298 --> 00:52:04,258
grow in terms of length, just 
trying to increase the 

1080
00:52:04,258 --> 00:52:07,218
robustness of the lifts and 
getting them to higher weight, 

1081
00:52:07,218 --> 00:52:10,841
but that's pretty much it. 
What do your set and rep ranges 

1082
00:52:10,841 --> 00:52:14,388
generally look like? 
Yeah, my, I'm keeping my, my, 

1083
00:52:14,388 --> 00:52:19,198
each set is below 8 reps, 8 reps
or lower usually. 

1084
00:52:19,199 --> 00:52:22,918
Early on, I was doing very 
lightweight. 

1085
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:26,736
Like I just wasn't even going 
close to, I probably was not 

1086
00:52:26,736 --> 00:52:31,506
even close to 50% one rep max, 
but I just wanted to get my body

1087
00:52:31,506 --> 00:52:34,212
used to lifting. 
So I was doing like 10 to 12 

1088
00:52:34,212 --> 00:52:36,620
reps for that point at that 
point, but nothing more than 

1089
00:52:36,620 --> 00:52:38,518
that. 
That makes total sense. 

1090
00:52:38,519 --> 00:52:40,715
When people are newer, I 
generally suggest then like, 

1091
00:52:40,715 --> 00:52:42,418
hey, you can start with higher 
rep. 

1092
00:52:42,420 --> 00:52:44,433
That's fine. 
But as you get used to it, 

1093
00:52:44,433 --> 00:52:46,842
right, you should, as you, as 
weight starts increasing as you 

1094
00:52:46,842 --> 00:52:49,251
get a little bit stronger, you 
should start pulling that down 

1095
00:52:49,251 --> 00:52:51,879
to where you're going, hey, by 
the time I'm getting to like 

1096
00:52:51,879 --> 00:52:55,164
that 4 to 6, maybe 7 range, like
I'm getting a little tired and I

1097
00:52:55,164 --> 00:52:58,289
want a little break. 
And the reason I advocate for 

1098
00:52:58,289 --> 00:53:01,534
this is A, less volume, right? 
Because you're getting plenty of

1099
00:53:01,534 --> 00:53:03,718
volume from running, and there's
only so much you recover from. 

1100
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:05,806
So again, that's going to be 
different if you have different 

1101
00:53:05,806 --> 00:53:07,318
goals, but if the goal is 
running, okay? 

1102
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:11,479
That's where this comes in. 
The other piece is that a lot of

1103
00:53:11,479 --> 00:53:15,349
running is being efficient, and 
the intendance actually respond 

1104
00:53:15,349 --> 00:53:18,358
really, really well to heavy 
slow loads. 

1105
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:22,080
And we know from our friend, Dr.
Karen Cybernegle, that there's a

1106
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:26,110
variety of lows that Tendo will 
respond to, but in terms of like

1107
00:53:26,110 --> 00:53:28,891
being like sparing muscle 
tissue, but also like building 

1108
00:53:28,891 --> 00:53:32,053
muscle tissue resilience. 
I'm a really big fan of doing 

1109
00:53:32,053 --> 00:53:34,600
something that's very different 
from running, running is 

1110
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:36,210
repetitive. 
It's over and over, endurance 

1111
00:53:36,210 --> 00:53:39,298
stuff like even when you go, if 
you run a 5K, right? 

1112
00:53:39,300 --> 00:53:41,664
That's still endurance, you 
still got a lot of steps in 

1113
00:53:41,664 --> 00:53:44,316
there. 
If you're gonna add an adjunct 

1114
00:53:44,316 --> 00:53:47,158
into your program, it should be 
different. 

1115
00:53:47,159 --> 00:53:49,872
It should be supporting things, 
not just be more of the same 

1116
00:53:49,872 --> 00:53:52,073
thing. 
So early on, yeah, if you need 

1117
00:53:52,073 --> 00:53:55,175
higher rep, great, but I suggest
pulling that down and starting 

1118
00:53:55,175 --> 00:53:58,268
getting some heavier weights if 
you can, just because tenons are

1119
00:53:58,268 --> 00:54:01,078
going to respond better, bones 
are going to respond better. 

1120
00:54:01,079 --> 00:54:02,698
Bones tend to. 
What was the comment? 

1121
00:54:02,699 --> 00:54:05,135
I can't remember. 
I think it was Rich Willie said 

1122
00:54:05,135 --> 00:54:07,830
this, and you've said this 
before, that, like, when you go 

1123
00:54:07,830 --> 00:54:10,518
for a run, I think it's only the
1st few steps. 

1124
00:54:10,518 --> 00:54:12,714
It's for 20 steps. 
And then those receptors fall 

1125
00:54:12,714 --> 00:54:13,318
asleep. 
Yeah. 

1126
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:14,578
And so then the bones stop 
responding. 

1127
00:54:14,579 --> 00:54:18,342
It's like, oh, they really 
respond better to those higher 

1128
00:54:18,342 --> 00:54:21,083
loads. 
So from a using weight training,

1129
00:54:21,083 --> 00:54:24,629
strength training to support 
your running, to reduce injury 

1130
00:54:24,629 --> 00:54:29,347
risk, to help support some of 
the tissues, give it a novel 

1131
00:54:29,347 --> 00:54:32,098
stimulus, to keep to build some 
resiliency. 

1132
00:54:32,099 --> 00:54:36,651
I'm a big proponent of get the 
weight heavier, get the reps 

1133
00:54:36,651 --> 00:54:41,578
lower, get it done, 3 to 4 sets 
maybe, and then move on. 

1134
00:54:41,579 --> 00:54:46,079
Don't spend all day in the wait 
room because you, you know, 

1135
00:54:46,079 --> 00:54:49,164
that's not the focus. 
But it doesn't mean you 

1136
00:54:49,164 --> 00:54:52,326
shouldn't miss it because, 
again, the thing that we lose 

1137
00:54:52,326 --> 00:54:56,434
greatest as we get older, we 
lose, as we lose, as we get 

1138
00:54:56,434 --> 00:54:59,594
older, we lose strength more 
than the relative muscle mass, 

1139
00:54:59,594 --> 00:55:03,070
we lose, lose, and we lose 
greater power than we lose 

1140
00:55:03,070 --> 00:55:04,318
relative to strength. 
Okay? 

1141
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,583
So like, especially the aging 
athlete, and we should all be 

1142
00:55:06,583 --> 00:55:09,124
thinking about this. 
Even if you're a 20 year old, 

1143
00:55:09,124 --> 00:55:12,149
you should be thinking for it 
because some of those bone 

1144
00:55:12,149 --> 00:55:15,999
changes are starting to come at 
you and not too long of a time 

1145
00:55:15,999 --> 00:55:19,299
that, you know, if you look at 
the evidence on power and 

1146
00:55:19,299 --> 00:55:21,499
masters power and strength 
athletes, they maintain their 

1147
00:55:21,499 --> 00:55:24,248
power and strength way better 
than endurance athletes and way 

1148
00:55:24,248 --> 00:55:26,939
better than the average person. 
Obviously, endurance athletes 

1149
00:55:26,939 --> 00:55:30,180
maintain their endurance. 
So if you're going to add a new 

1150
00:55:30,180 --> 00:55:32,580
stimulus in, why would you add 
more endurance in, you're 

1151
00:55:32,580 --> 00:55:35,038
already working on that. 
That's my argument. 

1152
00:55:35,039 --> 00:55:38,760
Yeah, I love it. 
Well, we're going to wrap things

1153
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,752
up here. 
I hope that you all enjoyed kind

1154
00:55:41,752 --> 00:55:45,082
of hearing our thoughts on where
strength training may fit, 

1155
00:55:45,082 --> 00:55:48,745
again, mostly for these people 
who really have running is their

1156
00:55:48,745 --> 00:55:50,367
priority. 
What we would love to hear from 

1157
00:55:50,367 --> 00:55:51,838
you are things that have worked 
for you. 

1158
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:55,608
So as we said, we know that 
there's going to be a total 

1159
00:55:55,608 --> 00:55:58,498
spectrum of things that people 
have found successful for them. 

1160
00:55:58,500 --> 00:56:03,058
We know that the cocktail of 
making yourself healthy and 

1161
00:56:03,058 --> 00:56:07,608
successful and achieving your 
goals can look a lot of 

1162
00:56:07,608 --> 00:56:10,524
different ways. 
And if you're trying to get 

1163
00:56:10,524 --> 00:56:12,164
started. 
Hopefully some of the 

1164
00:56:12,164 --> 00:56:15,423
conversation here can be 
stimulus for that, but we also 

1165
00:56:15,423 --> 00:56:17,698
have a really knowledgeable 
community of people. 

1166
00:56:17,699 --> 00:56:21,011
So feel free to share your 
thoughts, things that you've 

1167
00:56:21,011 --> 00:56:23,990
learned through the year's 
resources that you have found 

1168
00:56:23,990 --> 00:56:26,638
helpful when it comes to running
and weightlifting. 

1169
00:56:26,639 --> 00:56:30,959
As always, if you want to reach 
out to us, you can reach out to 

1170
00:56:30,959 --> 00:56:32,398
us at doctorsrunning at 
gmail.com. 

1171
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:35,457
We usually track all of the 
questions that roll in there and

1172
00:56:35,457 --> 00:56:38,505
then we try to answer them in 
various mailbag episodes in the 

1173
00:56:38,505 --> 00:56:38,935
future. 
But thank you all for joining us

1174
00:56:38,935 --> 00:56:39,059
and being part of us.