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Visit the link in our 
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runningwarehouse.com today. 
Hello everybody and welcome to 

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the Docs of Running podcast 
where we, a group of doctors of 

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physical therapy, discuss the 
art and science of running and 

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the stuff that we put on our 
feet. 

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I very almost I was very close 
to saying welcome to the doctors

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of Running Virtual Roundtable. 
Do you remember how we said 

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that? 
How long do we said they said 

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that for probably the first two 
years of the podcast. 

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I think it was the first two 
years, yes. 

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And then we're like, Nah. 
We got to clean it up a little 

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bit. 
I think the I mean we still have

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that heart of this sort of 
podcast where it does feel like 

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a round table discussion more 
than an exposition on anything 

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in in general. 
But yeah, that almost came out 

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of my mouth. 
But it's been over a year since 

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we've used that title. 
So just shows where my brain is 

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at today. 
But everybody, welcome to the 

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Doctor Running podcast. 
Today we are going to have 

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another mail bag episode. 
We've had so many questions from

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you all that we want to keep 
trying to walk through them. 

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A lot of these questions that we
have today are very directed to 

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individual circumstances and 
situations that people have sent

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us. 
And I think because of that, we 

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want to make sure that we say 
upfront that this podcast, 

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anything that we put out is not 
medical advice. 

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These are discussions about the,
the topics that get drawn out of

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these individual situations. 
So please do not take this as 

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medical advice if you're having 
any of these issues. 

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And for the people who write 
into us, we we try to, when we 

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actually respond one to one, we 
like to recommend who might be 

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the best person to go talk to or
see. 

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So we just want to give that 
caveat upfront. 

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But again, sorry, I'm Nathan 
Brown. 

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I'll be hosting today. 
And I'm here with Doctor Matthew

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Klein, founder of Doctors of 
Running. 

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Matt, thanks for hanging out 
with me tonight. 

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Always. 
Yeah, So it should be fun. 

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We're going to go ahead. 
For anybody that can is watching

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this, thank you Nathan for 
organizing the new round of Dor 

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gear from on, which is pretty 
awesome. 

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I just wore it in a 5K yesterday
and was super comfortable, so oh

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good that together. 
That's what I was wearing and 

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like, this is awesome. 
Yeah it's super nice stuff and 

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well we got to think onto they 
they provided us with the the 

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gear and then we had somebody 
local here in Stevens Point who 

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did the the printing for us 
point embroidery. 

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So it's great that we kind of 
have a little bit of a community

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help on it. 
But yeah we we still haven't 

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figured out a way to get apparel
ordered in ways that it could go

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to the public yet. 
I know people have asked us 

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about that, but the reality is 
we have to be able to get it, 

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print it, store it, ship it, and
we just don't have the time to 

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do that. 
So maybe if one of you who's 

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listening, maybe that's the 
subject of the day, if you have 

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an idea of how we could get 
apparel into people's hands 

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without a lot of work on our 
end. 

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We know there are some ways that
do the ship print on demand and 

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they do all the stuff, but it's 
not the quite the material that 

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we'd love the stuff to be. 
But anyway, that's a huge side 

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tangent for the day. 
Again, we're doing a mailbag. 

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So our subjective of the day 
actually is if you have a 

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question for us, a topic you 
want us to talk about, please 

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send it to us at 
doctorsofrunning@gmail.com. 

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Or you can comment below in this
video, and we'd love to get to 

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your questions in time. 
We love doing these episodes. 

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So we're going to jump right in 
and we're going to get to this 

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first question from Henry who 
asked us on Instagram. 

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They they're asking, hi doctors,
a big fan of your work other 

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than the Pro Evo. 
It seems that the research and 

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from what you guys wear for your
races that the Alphafly is the 

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most efficient shoe for long 
distance racing. 

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My main question with this is 
how can Zoom Air Pods be more 

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efficient than P Back's foam? 
There must be so much hysteresis

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and loss of compression either 
by compression and expansion of 

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the air or from the tensile 
loading the plastic sheath. 

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It's also notable that no other 
company is using air for 

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cushioning. 
Any thoughts on this? 

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I think there are a ton of of 
points within this question, but

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I think before we even address 
this question, if we even do, I 

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think we should go back to 
something we've talked about in 

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the past but haven't for a long 
time. 

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And that is, what is a super 
shoe and what role does 

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something like the plate have? 
What What do you think, Matt? 

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So I'm going to. 
I will address that. 

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I also please don't let me 
forget the second part was the 

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kind of assumption that the 
alpha fly was the most 

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efficient. 
And while there are some numbers

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that might suggest that, that is
certainly not going to be true 

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for everyone because people, 
different people, are going to 

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respond to different things. 
That's why not everybody wears 

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that. 
I've actually never raced in the

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alpha fly. 
David is choosing other shoes at

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this point. 
We'll see with version three, 

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but Please remember that just 
because you see some percentage 

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that's going to vary quite a 
bit. 

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So the definition of a super 
shoe right now is a shoe that's 

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utilizing a combination of 
several factors. 

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A it's maximal stack height. 
B, it's usually using some kind 

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of P or P backs type foam. 
And then the last kind of 

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general thing is there is of 
this Max stack height and 

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geometry is there is usually 
some kind of stiffening agent, 

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usually a carbon fiber plate 
throughout the full length of 

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the shoe. 
Usually as we've seen to 

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actually stabilize the foam. 
Because there's some interesting

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stuff where people thought the 
plate was the main thing which 

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is why for years companies were 
just putting plates in Eva and 

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calling this super shooting like
that's not the right 

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combination. 
On the recent evidence suggests 

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that it more facilitates forward
motion and helps stiffen up the 

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and somewhat maybe stabilize to 
the right term but facilitate 

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motion forward with these super 
soft unstable foams. 

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Although there is a small piece 
of efficiency they do add is 

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just not the biggest. 
But yeah it's the current 

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definition is Max stack height 
with rocker geometry usually 

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full length carbon fireplate. 
One of the most important 

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factors for making efficient is 
the special PBA or PBAX foam 

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usually. 
I think something with the PBA 

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and PBAX foam in this kind of 
goes into his question about the

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air pods is that it's not 
necessarily just that it's PBA 

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like that's not necessarily yet,
but from our conversations with 

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material scientists who 
understand this stuff way better

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than we do, it's more about the 
properties that the foam 

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compound can give you. 
So thinking about compliance, 

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resilience and loss of energy or
energy return, what sort of 

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percentages can you get from 
those things? 

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It just so happened, maybe it 
doesn't just so happen, but P 

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backs type foam is able to give 
you those highest properties. 

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They give you the energy back 
that comes from the compression.

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Matt, you'd mentioned that 
there's only some of it comes 

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from the plate. 
What sort of studies do we have 

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that show us the plate 
involvement? 

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And where does that idea come 
from that it's you're saying 

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it's not so much the plate that 
adds efficiency, but where what,

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what do we know from that from a
study? 

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Perspective. 
Yeah, so I got There's several 

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authors that have done this. 
The Hooch Camera is probably the

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one that comes most prominently 
in mind for a couple things of 

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being some of the original 
research on the vapor, the 

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original Vapor Fly, and some of 
the efficiency studies going, 

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yes, you know what what they in 
that lab did he in that lab. 

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I follow him on Straub by the 
way. 

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It sounds like a pretty good 
guy. 

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Sounds like, from what we 
discovered, the plates really. 

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They can add, based on some 
previous research, up to about 

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1% efficiency at most 
improvement. 

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But it's really the foams that 
add the most 'cause. 

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There was a study that Hoosier 
government and Laura from Puma 

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Healy yeah did, where they 
actually cut the plate in the 

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Vapor Fly, and it didn't change 
the efficiency. 

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So just cutting it once and 
removing some degree of 

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stiffness didn't seem to make 
the biggest impact, which kind 

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of suggests it must be something
else about the foam and 

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geometry. 
And some of the other studies 

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that have looked at this, 
especially like Dustin Zubert, 

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would kind of suggest that the 
foams play the biggest part. 

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Obviously in the right geometry 
was something so tall and stiff.

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But the plates, again, they 
really tend to play more into 

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facilitating motion, and they 
also need to line up correctly. 

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So just 'cause you have a plate 
doesn't mean you're going to 

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have a amazing, incredible shoe.
It's the curve of the plate, 

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especially in the forefoot, has 
been shown that it needs to line

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up with your first minitarsal 
phalangeal joint, like where it 

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flexes or it pivots to actually 
be able to have this be the most

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efficient for you. 
I don't know why. 

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Why am I forgetting the study 
where they did the study author 

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McCloud, where they found that 
it that there was plates weren't

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magic. 
Again, it was is it lining up 

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with your mechanics? 
And it that's where the 

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variability to help people 
respond is some plates are going

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to work really well for people. 
Some levels of sticks are going 

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to work really well for people. 
Other people it's not other 

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people might need something more
flexible or the it's a plate to 

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be in a different direction 
because you are going to respond

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uniquely to stiffening agents 
and you might benefit you might 

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not it's very individual a lot 
of it seems some of it seems to 

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be around the first minotaurs 
phalangeal joint. 

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But again, the amount that you 
benefit from with a plate does 

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it is not to the same degree as 
a foam. 

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The bigger question is when you 
start combining those things, 

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what happens? 
And that's hasn't been studied, 

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it's just kind of assumed. 
Right. 

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There's there's somewhat of a 
magic cocktail that has to be 

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created for it to actually work 
that matches the person that's 

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there. 
There's another study that 

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looked at plate placement, 
whether it's closer to the foot 

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or closer to the ground and what
the closer it was to the ground.

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If I'm remembering this study 
correct, it was less had less of

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an impact so the closer it was 
to the foot it made a difference

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or the and then it had to do 
with the shaping as well. 

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I think what else is is worth 
talking about too is that there 

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are you know if you're paying 
attention the the running event 

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just happened last week, so 
we're recording on a Sunday, the

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3rd of December. 
So like last week was the 

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running event which is where all
the these running shoe companies

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show all the stuff that's coming
out this next year. 

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And a lot of people in our 
sphere too that we know go and 

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then they they share all these 
things that are coming. 

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And so again, all of these new 
shoes are coming. 

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All of these different 
discussions on plates and what 

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the plate is going to do come 
out from a marketing perspective

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as well. 
And I think it's an interesting 

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00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,480
conversation to revisit because 
we're hearing a lot of new 

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things about what these plates 
are doing in the shoe or what 

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they or why they may design A 
plate the way that they do. 

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00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:17,880
The reason why I think it's 
interesting and worth talking 

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about is because as we know so 
far in the literature, the plate

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doesn't have the major role. 
But it does play a role. 

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However, in talking with some of
the shoe designers, how we are 

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00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,360
able to harness carbon fiber 
plates and what sort of designs 

229
00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,720
that they can create in the 
variability and where it flexes 

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00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,640
and where it is stiff and all of
these things, that's changing. 

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00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,520
So I think that these companies 
may know things that we don't 

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know about the impact of these 
running shoes on their athletes.

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00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,800
At the same time, it's going to 
be hard for us to know what 

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00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,640
those things are in the shoe, in
the shoe, in that carbon plate 

235
00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,240
and maybe how they created 
excessive stiffness in this 

236
00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,360
region of the shoe. 
And then they create more 

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00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,280
flexibility in another region to
kind of harness as much 

238
00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,080
efficiency as possible. 
But I think it's worth 

239
00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,200
considering. 
What we know so far is that it's

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00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,920
it's a necessary but not 
sufficient piece for running the

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00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,600
economy. 
But there are maybe ways that 

242
00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,440
can be developed in the future. 
When it comes to this stuff, I 

243
00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,440
the one that comes to my mind 
the most is New Balance. 

244
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,360
Because they talk about the 
energy arc and they bend the 

245
00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,000
plate in a certain way that 
they, excuse me, believe that 

246
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:31,360
it'll bend and then return in a 
way that it's not necessarily 

247
00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,680
designed in other shoes. 
And I just don't know if that's 

248
00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,360
a good idea or if that's 
something that they've proven. 

249
00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,840
And we have tried to ask that 
conversation on this podcast, 

250
00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,560
even in an interview with them, 
but I think they hold it kind of

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00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,440
tight to the chest. 
So I'm just curious. 

252
00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,640
I I will say if you notice, so 
Nathan and I are experiencing a 

253
00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,120
bunch of FOMO right now where we
we missed out again. 

254
00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:57,600
Both of us are in second 
doctorate to work, both working 

255
00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,760
on our second doctorate degrees.
Both of us have kids. 

256
00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:06,120
I have a 1313 1/2 week old or 3 
1/2 month old so, but I have to 

257
00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:08,160
give credit to New Balance 
because the new foams that 

258
00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:12,440
they're using are Pbacs, Piba, 
infused foam. 

259
00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:14,360
So I think they may have figured
something out. 

260
00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,640
But the other other thing I do 
want to say is, yes, there's 

261
00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:19,560
still a lot of plate 
conversations that I understand 

262
00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:22,080
people are doing a lot. 
We in the research world are 

263
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:26,360
never going to catch up to that 
because to actually create a 

264
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,520
appropriate controlled study 
where we can see these things, 

265
00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,400
we aren't going to have the 
tools necessary to be able to 

266
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,360
create that level of stiffness. 
So it's going to be a lot of 

267
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,920
anecdotal like what the 
companies might know. 

268
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,720
It's going to take us a while if
we ever catch up to that, but I 

269
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,840
have to give a little shout out 
because I think companies are 

270
00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:44,600
starting to talk a little bit 
more about phones. 

271
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,960
So obviously New Balance was 
certainly talking about some new

272
00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,800
phones. 
Puma was actually mentioning 

273
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:51,600
this because apparently they're 
using something. 

274
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,160
Please correct me if I'm wrong 
that not to create more like 

275
00:13:55,280 --> 00:14:00,600
drama and like, but Todd I think
mentioned that they're the new 

276
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:05,880
fast R2 is using. 
It's non piba, but it apparently

277
00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:07,880
is supposed to have even more 
resiliency. 

278
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,040
So I've been waiting for this to
going at what point are they 

279
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,640
going to find the next thing 
after piva and start moving 

280
00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:15,800
ahead. 
So I'm just, I don't know. 

281
00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,240
I might be completely wrong and 
somebody can comment and tell me

282
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,080
I'm I'm completely wrong, but 
that's. 

283
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,320
I swear I heard that. 
Well, yeah. 

284
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,840
And I've, I've had conversations
with him that are similar, but I

285
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,400
think that the, the key there 
is, again, it's not necessarily 

286
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,240
what type of foam it's. 
Do you get the foam properties 

287
00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,200
and the weight, like do you get 
both of those things together 

288
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,520
Because you can have the best 
resilience, you can have ultra 

289
00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,960
boost, right, which has really 
great resiliency, but it weighs 

290
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:42,360
a ton. 
So you're not going to get 

291
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,560
running economy benefits. 
It's just way too heavy. 

292
00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,960
So it's finding that that magic,
that magic space in between, and

293
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,120
getting it all fit together. 
You know what I got to add on 

294
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,080
early? 
The thing I foolishly forgot is 

295
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,320
that weight still plays a 
massive role in economy. 

296
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,280
The resilience of the foam has 
definitely made a big impact on 

297
00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,240
this, but the weight is still a 
big factor. 

298
00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,160
It's I think it's like 1% 
economy improvement for every 

299
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:08,040
100 grams off the shoe. 
So I think that's why, like, I 

300
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,760
know people might like the alpha
Fly, but it's still a bit on the

301
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:11,920
heavier. 
And yes, there's a ton of 

302
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,040
bounce, but stuff like the 
Vaporfly, like version three 

303
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,920
that has an incredibly resilient
foam, It's 6 1/2 oz for men's 

304
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,600
size on like that, super 
lightweight, plus the stiffening

305
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,120
agent plus the geometry. 
It is the combination of all the

306
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,760
fact that this has to be gotten 
that has to be done correctly 

307
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:32,560
and not just one. 
And so what's interesting to me,

308
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,800
if you have anything on this, 
'cause I think we were talking 

309
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,600
about this, I don't actually 
know how the air pods influence 

310
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,880
efficiency. 
That's what I'm really curious 

311
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,800
about. 
I I would love to to talk with 

312
00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:49,320
the, with, with the scientists 
within the Nike lab to talk 

313
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,280
about what sort of statistics 
and durability they're getting 

314
00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,480
from these things. 
Because if you're able to 

315
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:58,600
harness, you know a positive air
pressure within these air pods 

316
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,520
that can be maintained and that 
if these sheaths around them are

317
00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,880
robust enough that they're not 
stretching, I mean I can see 

318
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:09,080
where that concept could hold up
longer and provide a lot of 

319
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,040
resilience. 
You, I mean air has been used in

320
00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,360
shoes for a long time. 
I think about like the 80, the 

321
00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:19,480
80s even with some of the stuff.
So I I think it's it's a really 

322
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,320
interesting concept that again 
this is that's not our area of 

323
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,280
expertise. 
But I would love to have an 

324
00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,560
opportunity to sit down with 
Nike and and talk with them more

325
00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,680
about that 'cause I think that's
sorry Henry, we don't have a 

326
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,040
robust response to that 
question. 

327
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:38,400
Regarding the the Air pods, I'd,
I'd love to hear more from from 

328
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,600
the Nike team on that and maybe 
we'll get to learn more soon. 

329
00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,320
I think we had mentioned, we had
mentioned a little bit about 

330
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,520
things lining up for for 
somebody. 

331
00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:51,280
And I do think a good company 
that gives you a comparison is 

332
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,560
Saucony because they have their 
endorphin Elite, which is a shoe

333
00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,000
that David had just raced a 
marathon in today. 

334
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,720
That's been his for his last two
marathons he's racing the 

335
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:01,720
endorphin Elite. 
Then they have the Endorphin Pro

336
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,480
3 which have just very different
designs. 

337
00:17:04,599 --> 00:17:06,839
They have different, they have 
different foams, they have 

338
00:17:06,839 --> 00:17:10,079
different geometries. 
You can see the aggressiveness 

339
00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:13,640
and later stage rocker of the 
Endorphin elite, whereas the 

340
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:19,640
Endorphin Pro 3 has a much more 
gradual ride to it and or rocker

341
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,440
to it. 
You know for me I'm going to be 

342
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,560
rolling with the Endorphin Pro 3
every day. 

343
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,400
If my only other option was the 
Endorphin Elite I I have a 

344
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,400
really hard time getting up on 
the toe getting over this rocker

345
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,560
just the way that my my 
mechanics work And so just 

346
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,480
because this this has a more 
technically efficient foam, it 

347
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,480
doesn't work as well for me and 
getting in my stride and I don't

348
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:43,480
know if it works better for me. 
For a running economy 

349
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,440
perspective, I haven't ran on 
like I haven't done any testing 

350
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,400
with that, but from a comfort 
level I would run in this and I 

351
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:55,040
have have chosen this over over 
the endorphin elite because of 

352
00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,440
the comfort level that comes 
with that. 

353
00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,720
And maybe I'm sacrificing some, 
some running economy, but I 

354
00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,240
think it's important to think 
about the geometry of the shoe 

355
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,400
is really important. 
I think other ones, there are 

356
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,160
others with that kind of later 
stage rocker. 

357
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,160
The Meta Speed Sky is one of 
them. 

358
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:17,200
A little bit here with the 
Rebellion Pro from Mizuno as 

359
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,200
well. 
Just a little bit more of an 

360
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,640
aggressive later stage rocker. 
I think I got to add another 

361
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:26,560
piece there that I think people 
want a single thing to focus on 

362
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,240
here. 
Oh, what's the running economy 

363
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,800
measurement? 
I'm like, the problem with that 

364
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,080
is that you're only taking one 
of the many factors that go into

365
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,640
this. 
Also for a race, your shoe 

366
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,840
choice is one of many, many 
factors that go into do you even

367
00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:41,840
finish the race right? 
What's the weather? 

368
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,200
What's your nutrition? 
How you feel all this stuff so 

369
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,920
you know you can't. 
It is OK to look at one thing. 

370
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,760
I'm going to focus on this for 
the moment, but it's a far more 

371
00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:51,680
complicated question to go 
what's going to work for me? 

372
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,400
And that comes down to what's 
most efficient for you as an 

373
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,600
individual. 
There's people that out there, 

374
00:18:57,760 --> 00:18:59,400
they might be kind of more 
outliers, but there's people out

375
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,920
there who go, you know, 
honestly, I don't work well with

376
00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:03,800
super shoes. 
A lightweight trainer or even a 

377
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,000
daily trainer is actually going 
to be the most efficient and 

378
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,480
thing for me because it's also 
the most comfortable. 

379
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,440
And the thing that people are 
going to be able to wear for 

380
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,600
their full, you know, race 
distance, it's what's going to 

381
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:14,920
keep you comfortable. 
It's what's you're going to 

382
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:16,920
going to help you finish. 
You're not going to finish well 

383
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,520
in something that is super 
uncomfortable over a long 

384
00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,440
distance race. 
So comfort is something you 

385
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,760
cannot ignore. 
And there's some evidence from 

386
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,400
Beno Nig who actually suggests 
that comfort also plays a part 

387
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,200
in efficiency. 
So, you know, it's not just one 

388
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:32,360
thing. 
Just because something has a 

389
00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:35,880
number, you don't know exactly 
where that number came from, who

390
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,800
was tested on what the 
population that was tested on 

391
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:40,560
the population is even relevant 
to you. 

392
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,680
So comfort and trying to figure 
out, all right, what kind of 

393
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:46,480
components does this shoe work 
well for me? 

394
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,080
And then can I get my foot in, 
is it comfortable, Can I 

395
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,040
practice in it? 
Can I handle it for long enough?

396
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:55,320
It's a more extensive question 
than What's the economy number? 

397
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,480
Because that's going to vary. 
I also think we, we'd be remiss 

398
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,760
if we didn't talk about Dustin 
Jobert's recent, more recent 

399
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,160
studies that look at a lot of 
the shoes that are currently on 

400
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,040
the market probably going to be 
off the market in the next two 

401
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:08,720
years because of all. 
Those ones that will come out. 

402
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,480
Right. 
So, but like he, he did two 

403
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,960
studies of note. 
I think they had about 16 

404
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,040
runners in the first one. 
It was a lot of runners running 

405
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,400
around a 6 minute pace when they
were doing their running economy

406
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,520
testing. 
And that was the study that did 

407
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:25,520
show that Alpha Fly, Vapor Fly 
and Meta Speed Sky were at that 

408
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:29,360
higher echelon of running 
economy on average in comparison

409
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:32,200
to some of the other ones he had
some other ones that slotted in 

410
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:33,320
behind there. 
But yeah. 

411
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,440
And that, yeah that was 
endorphin speed two at the time 

412
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,800
when he did that study. 
So yeah, that or Endorphin Pro 

413
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,280
2. 
So yeah, they haven't even 

414
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,280
touched. 
He hasn't included those in that

415
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,680
study. 
So I that's from a from Henry's 

416
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:47,400
question. 
He does talk about the alpha Fly

417
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,240
being the most efficient that is
seen in that study. 

418
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:55,840
And for the the interesting part
is Dustin posts on like lab rat 

419
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,760
rundown, he posts his own case 
study stuff. 

420
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,200
He's a very high responder to 
the alpha fly. 

421
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,640
So you're going to see that a 
lot in terms of it beating out 

422
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,680
other shoes because that's his 
best running economy response 

423
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,200
shoe right now. 
So I think it's worth just 

424
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,960
making sure that you understand 
that's his case studies, which 

425
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,560
is separate from his study with 
like 16 runners running a little

426
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,480
bit faster. 
And then he and Jeff Burns had 

427
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,680
the study that looked at running
economy at slower paces and they

428
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,040
found that kind of they'd still 
benefited but not quite as much.

429
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,640
And then I think the other piece
here when it comes to running 

430
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,520
slower was the stuff that 
Saucony did within their lab. 

431
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,120
That's not published, but they 
looked at comparing the running 

432
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:42,520
economy in the endorphin Pro 3IN
comparison to the Kinvara Pro 

433
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:46,800
for people running at a lighter 
effort. 

434
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,880
So not pace. 
They did it based on effort and 

435
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,440
they found the same running 
economy benefit between these 

436
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:56,920
two shoes despite the the Pro 
Kinvara Pro being heavier, 

437
00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:02,520
despite it not being full full 
width or all the way from top to

438
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:06,040
bottom based off of P backs. 
It's got a dual density thing 

439
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,760
going on. 
And I think it again, it just 

440
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:13,240
it's way more complex than just 
saying you have the right agent 

441
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,080
of Stephanie and you have the 
right foam. 

442
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,160
It's all of the cocktail, 
combined with what sort of 

443
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:19,920
purposes you're using the shoe 
for. 

444
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,160
And you? 
And the first you. 

445
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,160
Case all this kind of stuff. 
So it's a lot of factors. 

446
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,320
Totally. 
Do you have any, do you have any

447
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:33,200
other thoughts about his his 
notion that you're not seeing 

448
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,760
other companies use AIR right 
now? 

449
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,720
I think one of my questions is I
I can almost guarantee that Nike

450
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,440
has some sort of patent or 
something on the exact 

451
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,840
technology here. 
So your ability to create 

452
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,560
something that's replicable that
doesn't infringe on that might 

453
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,640
be difficult. 
So that could be one piece as to

454
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,360
why you're not seeing it in 
other companies. 

455
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,600
But I don't know if and I that's
speaking out of my butt, I don't

456
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,040
actually know if that's a thing,
but I would, I'd be willing to 

457
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:01,480
guess. 
Do you have any other thoughts 

458
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,440
on why other companies might not
be, or if you think that's a 

459
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,560
reason why you wouldn't think 
that's a beneficial part of the 

460
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,440
shoe design? 
I mean, who else has used air in

461
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,760
the past of the major players 
right now? 

462
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,640
Reebok. 
That's I mean. 

463
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,240
They're not a major player in 
the in this category. 

464
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,320
They're not this category. 
Yeah, nobody else has really 

465
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,360
used that. 
So that that makes me think that

466
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,600
people are already already took 
people long enough to kind of 

467
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,480
get their own formulas of P 
backs and and resilient foam. 

468
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,480
I need to stop saying that. 
Super highly resilient foams. 

469
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,840
It took people long enough and 
now most companies have some 

470
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,000
variation on that. 
I wonder if the effort required 

471
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,360
to go into that, maybe for other
companies, may not be the the 

472
00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:47,480
effort's not worth it in terms 
of maybe they're not. 

473
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:48,440
They've tried something like 
that. 

474
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:49,880
They're not seeing the same 
benefits. 

475
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,800
Not to shout out Puma again, I 
think that's where what's 

476
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,560
interesting is the FAST are 
having a giant chunk of midsole 

477
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,160
missing, which it's not an air 
pod, but there's air right 

478
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:02,360
there, right? 
Things are missing. 

479
00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:05,160
I think that's the only one I 
can think of that's doing 

480
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,200
something unique. 
Most companies have the fairly 

481
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:13,560
simplistic formula of foam plate
upper, Yeah, you know, geometry 

482
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,040
stuff. 
So it's a good question. 

483
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,600
But I I would agree with you. 
I would bet money has to do with

484
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,800
some kind of copyright that Nike
has just hammered down and 

485
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:25,800
nobody's had felt like the need 
to to copy that and they're use 

486
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,800
it utilizing other methods. 
But I could be totally wrong and

487
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,560
talking out my butt too. 
So yeah. 

488
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,840
Also just speaking to, I think 
it's interesting, if we look 

489
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,800
back at the last six months or 
year of Doctors of Running and 

490
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,360
what we've used for races David 
used. 

491
00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:43,960
I don't think anybody has raced 
in the second Alpha Fly on our 

492
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,440
team. 
David ran in the original Alpha 

493
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,120
Fly, but once he wasn't in that 
anymore, he's been running in 

494
00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:53,160
the Endorphin Elite. 
Andrew races in the Vapor Fly. 

495
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,840
I raced in the Vapor Fly for my 
most recent longer distance run,

496
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,080
the Vapor Fly Three. 
What did you race it? 

497
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,960
What have you been racing in? 
I've raced in a combination of 

498
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:09,840
the Rocket X2, the Endorphin 
Elite and then just actually 

499
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,920
yesterday used actually I've 
done two races, my unofficial 2 

500
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,720
mile race against my students. 
I use the Vapor Fly next percent

501
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,800
three and then just yesterday 
for the Chino Reindeer romp 

502
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:25,120
where I got my butt kicked. 
Use the Nike Vaporfly 3 and I I 

503
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,640
can't complain the the 
competitors there were great, 

504
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:33,160
but the Vaporfly 3 was was the 
weapon of choice just to see 

505
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,960
what it felt like during the 5K.
So I haven't really used 

506
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:37,320
anything else. 
There's been some stuff I've 

507
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,720
been interested in but haven't 
really tried yet. 

508
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,680
Hoping to race a little bit more
this next year, getting the PhD 

509
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,240
done and can experiment with 
that, but those been the big 

510
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,280
ones. 
I mean, I guess my other my 5 

511
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,600
Miller I ran in the endorphin 
pro 3. 

512
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,080
So yeah, no alpha, no alpha, fly
2 racers at doctors running 

513
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,640
Bach. 
Did his skeleton scurry or 

514
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,120
whatever? 
Or skeleton hustle race and he 

515
00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:01,600
did the Puma right? 
Yeah. 

516
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,880
He did it. 
He did the the first version 

517
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,400
one, yeah of the DBA. 
Just a comfortable shoe. 

518
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:09,440
Oh my God, A. 
Comfortable shoe? 

519
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,440
Yeah. 
Cool. 

520
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:12,600
Well, we should probably move 
forward. 

521
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,360
We spent about 20 minutes on 
question one here. 

522
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,400
I just thought, I feel like your
podcast is going to be talking 

523
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,800
about Super Shoes again and the 
other questions. 

524
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,520
And then other questions. 
So let's go to one of these 

525
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,080
other questions and this again 
is one of those that's a pretty 

526
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,480
specific situation that we are 
not giving medical advice for, 

527
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,880
but we want to talk about the 
some of the concepts within it. 

528
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,040
So it's from Josh. 
They say Dear Dor recently had a

529
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,080
scarf akin osteotomy for a 
bunion on my left foot, 

530
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,360
currently recovering and trying 
to decide what the best trainers

531
00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:44,720
would be for me to buy to start 
walking again And to help 

532
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,400
reoccurrence of the bunion in 
that. 

533
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,600
In the future they give a couple
more details about themselves 

534
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,240
and they're just wondering if we
could suggest a suitable trainer

535
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,320
for them based on their needs. 
So can we first just start what 

536
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,240
is a bunion? 
What's a what is an osteotomy? 

537
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,280
What's an akin osteotomy? 
What is the situation that we're

538
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:06,560
dealing with here? 
Yeah. 

539
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,960
So an osteotomy or like a 
bunion, what I don't think it's 

540
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,440
an exact bunionectomy per SE, 
but a bunion is where on your 

541
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,160
first toe on the metatarsal 
phalangeal joint, it is usually 

542
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,520
a Bony outgrowth of the joint 
and both sometimes the 

543
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,760
metatarsal, the phalangeal 
things right here. 

544
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,240
So if you can see my skeleton 
foot. 

545
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,280
So there's some variation on why
this can happen. 

546
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,160
There's some endocrine issues 
that can actually influence the 

547
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,320
gust swelling of the joint. 
There's biomechanical issues 

548
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:39,840
where the first toe can get 
pushed in in outward laterally 

549
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,480
and muscles can get stiff. 
There's a muscle called your 

550
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,080
abductor halases that can get 
stiff. 

551
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,080
Your abductor halases, which is 
a very important arch muscle. 

552
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,680
If that's weak or maybe overly 
lengthened, can't keep that toe 

553
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,280
aligned. 
There's some suspicion that 

554
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,760
maybe again this is a really 
common thing and we're probably 

555
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,760
going to catch fire for. 
What I'm about ready to say is 

556
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,640
that most people will assume 
that narrow toe boxes will keep 

557
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,840
your foot in that position. 
And while mechanically they may 

558
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:06,720
keep it in that while you're 
wearing the shoe, whether that 

559
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,000
causes lasting changes, we 
actually don't have longitudinal

560
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,640
evidence on. 
So to be very cautious saying 

561
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:13,960
that. 
But that's kind of the 

562
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,120
assumption right now. 
And so the osteotomy is where 

563
00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:20,560
you actually shave that kind of 
thing down. 

564
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,000
And the the specific version the
scarf Akin Osteotomy is actually

565
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,800
where they take a wedge shaped 
chunk out of the the the 

566
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,880
proximal phalanx which is this 
toe. 

567
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,760
It's like of your toe bones 
there's two of them them there's

568
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,920
a a end one and a more closer 
one are called proximal. 

569
00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:39,040
They take a chunk out of the 
proximal 1 to help align things 

570
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,840
up just because things have 
gotten pushed over so far. 

571
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:46,600
So that's a scarf akin osteotomy
kind of a a good a complicated 

572
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:51,280
procedure that really needs a 
specialist to do this and then 

573
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,520
yeah, after that. 
So you know just pick know that 

574
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,200
you also have both significant 
bone healing too during your 

575
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,000
rehab process. 
Yeah. 

576
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,640
So again, we're not going to try
to speak to this person's 

577
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,120
progress or situation 
specifically. 

578
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,840
But I think it's that idea of if
I'm dealing with recurrent 

579
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,440
bunions or I have a bunion or I 
want to avoid gay one because I 

580
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,920
have one-on-one side or 
whatever, whatever the situation

581
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,280
is. 
I think that's kind of how we're

582
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,000
approaching this conversation, 
kind of what is a bunion, what 

583
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,200
are they caused by? 
And then do shoes play a role? 

584
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,440
And what kind of shoes could we 
be thinking about? 

585
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,920
So what? 
What comes to your mind, Matt, 

586
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,480
when it comes to shoe choice? 
Yeah, I do think shoes do play a

587
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,280
role and I want to be cautious 
to how far I take this because I

588
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,040
think in the past we were like, 
Oh yeah, like the widest toe box

589
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,120
possible. 
And like, you know, don't have 

590
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,440
anything pressure on your toes. 
And I think that assumes that 

591
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,080
this person has a wide foot. 
I think for those with a narrow 

592
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,760
foot, you can still have a toe 
box that that is appropriate for

593
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,360
them. 
I think what you need to think 

594
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,840
about instead of just a wide toe
box, but you need to have a toe 

595
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,960
box where your first toe is 
allowed to stay straight, that 

596
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:57,000
might be narrow, that might be 
wide. 

597
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,520
You have to look at the shape. 
So that medial aspect of the 

598
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,760
shoe needs to not curve in so 
much for that person, needs to 

599
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,200
be far more straight. 
And a couple companies are 

600
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,000
starting to pay attention to 
that outside of ones like Ultra 

601
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,720
and Topo, which make kind of the
widest toe boxes out there. 

602
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:13,400
Other companies, there's a 
couple of them. 

603
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,080
They're starting to pay 
attention and go, hey, maybe we 

604
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:19,400
should make that medial side of 
the toe a little bit straighter 

605
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,320
and that might help. 
So you don't necessarily have to

606
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,040
find the widest toe box shoe, 
but you have to find something 

607
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,400
that allows your big toe to stay
straight. 

608
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,400
Yeah. 
Do you have any examples of 

609
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,760
shoes that are really poorly 
tapered on that side or have a 

610
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,720
have a very excessive taper that
you can show us or or discuss 

611
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,800
with? 
I'm looking at the shoes I have 

612
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,800
in front of me too. 
I do think this is this could be

613
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:46,760
an example but you go. 
I think I'm gonna, I'm gonna 

614
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,480
pick on Mizuno for a second. 
Normally have really good toe 

615
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,080
boxes. 
I think there was Mizuno Wave 

616
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,360
Rebellion Pro. 
It fits 1/2 size small. 

617
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,240
So this this curve here is 
really accentuated and felt like

618
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:58,920
my toes were really pushed 
inwards. 

619
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,120
So if you see this kind of like 
big curve inwards here, 

620
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,560
especially with the shoe that 
fits short, that's probably not 

621
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,800
the best option. 
If you get this a size and a 

622
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:11,400
half size up, it's a lot better.
Trying to think what else what 

623
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,360
might be a good option. 
Probably should have had this 

624
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,280
fret beforehand. 
No, it's OK. 

625
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,800
I I think, I think a lot of 
companies are changing their, 

626
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:23,400
their toe box shapes. 
Like I I know that ASICS, ASICS 

627
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,960
shoes fit so different than they
did a few years ago. 

628
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,800
They're much less tapered. 
Saucony I think has done a good 

629
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:34,560
job overall decreasing the taper
in their shoes and keeping that 

630
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,040
toe box in a place where it 
allows you to have some splay. 

631
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,520
I think. 
I think one of the things that I

632
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,800
think about is again Matt, you 
kind of mentioned a lot of the 

633
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:48,280
potential causes of bunions from
yes potential. 

634
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:53,680
We don't, we don't really know 
when it comes to the mechanical 

635
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,160
potential causes. 
I think one of them to consider 

636
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:00,720
is if you are walking or running
in a way that has you maybe your

637
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,120
foot points out when you walk or
when you're going through, you 

638
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,040
kind of have this kind of 
increased pressure on the medial

639
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,280
side or inside of your foot. 
And then your weight bearing 

640
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,720
continually pushes your big toe 
across as you're going through 

641
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,680
terminal stance. 
And that could be something that

642
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,600
is overtime years and years of 
repetitive loading in that 

643
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,640
fashion with walking or running.
It could lead to potential 

644
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,960
changes in toward toward that 
bunion and where you're having 

645
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,440
that that hallux move across the
foot. 

646
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,680
That being said, it could be a 
consideration to choose a shoe 

647
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,440
that gives you a little bit of a
cyst at terminal stance, which 

648
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,800
would again come down to a 
potential stiffer rocker design.

649
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,840
Rockers are not this magic thing
that fix everything, but they do

650
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,240
happen to have some specific 
applications. 

651
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,800
If you can find a rocker that 
matches your specific need. 

652
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,360
So if you notice that you're 
somebody that you feel a lot of 

653
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,200
pressure on the inside of your 
foot, maybe if you get a lot of 

654
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,280
blisters on that side of your, 
your big toe on the inside of 

655
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,680
your big toe, that could be 
telling you that you're putting 

656
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,880
a lot of pressure there and you 
would maybe look for something 

657
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,400
with a bit more of a stiffer 
rocker that would give you some 

658
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,320
of that assist through, 
especially if you're maybe 

659
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,120
externally rotating your tibias 
and you're you're walking on 

660
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:16,960
the, you know from outside to 
inside. 

661
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,040
That was the only other 
consideration that I had outside

662
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,520
of the a toe box, which I I need
to say this too. 

663
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,920
I think that, and this is not 
any of the running shoe 

664
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,080
companies that we work with, but
there are other shoe companies 

665
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,520
that give you that picture of a 
foot inside of a toe box. 

666
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,440
That fits really nicely because 
it's an anatomically shaped toe 

667
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,000
box and the toes don't touch the
edge of that shape, of the 

668
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,440
silhouette of the shoe. 
And then it puts it next to a 

669
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,160
silhouette of a more, quote UN 
quote traditionally shaped shoe.

670
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,000
And your toes are like, yeah, 
yeah. 

671
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,280
And they're like overflowing 
over the edges of this of this 

672
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,200
thing. 
That's where it's like it's 

673
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,680
playing with your mind to show 
you a logical thing that isn't 

674
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,720
necessarily the case. 
So just take those pictures with

675
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,680
a grain of salt. 
I'm not saying that you should 

676
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,120
find these super narrow shoes 
that always squeeze your toes 

677
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:07,560
together. 
We know that that can lead to a 

678
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:08,840
lot of different kinds of 
issues. 

679
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,120
But I think just just don't let 
that make you think that all 

680
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,840
these other shoes are bad. 
That's just not. 

681
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,760
That's not the case. 
And it's an exaggeration of 

682
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,280
reality. 
I think that's a good point on 

683
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,840
some people will fit really well
in those wide shoes with the 

684
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:25,400
white toe boxes. 
Other people are going to be 

685
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,360
swimming in them and they're 
going to get blisters. 

686
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,800
So it's really trying to find a 
shoe rather than saying, oh, I 

687
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,800
need the the widest toe box, it 
you need a shoe that fits your 

688
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,840
foot and gives you enough room. 
If you have a narrow foot and 

689
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,360
you're wearing something you're 
swimming in, you're going to 

690
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:40,880
slide around, you're not going 
to be securing, you get 

691
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:42,199
blisters, not going to be 
comfortable. 

692
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,000
If you're wearing a shoe that's 
too narrow for you, it will 

693
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,840
compress your foot. 
And we do actually have evidence

694
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:48,679
that if you're wearing shoe 
that's too narrow, it can 

695
00:34:48,679 --> 00:34:51,040
compress stuff like some of the 
nerves in there. 

696
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,679
There is some risk factors for 
Morton's Toroma and aroma. 

697
00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:57,440
So yes, it's a balance of 
finding a shoe that fits your 

698
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,880
foot, not necessarily that you 
need this perfect anatomic thing

699
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,520
every time. 
And what's great is that 

700
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,560
companies are making shoes where
the the forefoot is doing 

701
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,680
better. 
It's so we just mentioned this 

702
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,840
earlier the the, the forefoot of
shoes is so much better than it 

703
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,160
used to be. 
Like, I'm impressed, like I when

704
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,920
I put the Vapor Fly on that that
this shoe has so much volume in 

705
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,560
the forefoot and so much, it's 
like, wow, there's actually a 

706
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,240
lot of room. 
Like, I would have never, if you

707
00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:24,440
told me this years ago, I would 
have never assumed there'd be 

708
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,320
this much room in a racing shoe 
in the forefoot. 

709
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,280
And so makes sense because long 
over a long race, you don't want

710
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,360
your foot getting compressed 
because that's going to cause 

711
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,080
some issues if you're get, if 
your foot's going numb, there's 

712
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:37,920
too much pressure, and that's 
not a good shoe for you. 

713
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,560
But, you know, I think companies
are doing a lot better. 

714
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,360
There's a lot more options out 
there for finding a shoe that 

715
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,840
fits you. 
But don't assume that you need a

716
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,720
quote UN quote super wide 
natural shoes. 

717
00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:53,040
Some people do really well on 
them. 

718
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,760
I love walking around in those 
shoes. 

719
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,520
I don't necessarily always like 
running in them because I feel 

720
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,880
like I need more security. 
So that's another just a an 

721
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:06,160
anecdotal example of how shoes 
or tools, there's no perfect 

722
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,600
tool and try to find what works 
for you is kind of a key. 

723
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:13,040
I think two companies that pop 
into my head as maybe narrow 

724
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,000
foot friendly companies mean 
it's just a little. 

725
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,160
Bit like that. 
Yeah, little bit more narrow. 

726
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,080
Maybe not most appropriate for 
people who want, who need a 

727
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,760
little bit more width or having 
this issue that this person 

728
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,920
brought up with the question but
those two companies for me are 

729
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:33,920
Puma and Hoka right now Puma's 
trainers like I have the Magnify

730
00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:37,680
over there, the second version 
and it is, it's just a little 

731
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,000
bit more narrow. 
Their racing shoe is super 

732
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:41,720
comfortable and it's more 
narrow. 

733
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:48,040
Even the Velocity Nitro it's 
just in the Liberate everything 

734
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,400
it just fits a little bit more 
snug a little bit more tapered 

735
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,840
through that toe box and it's 
really secure and they and they 

736
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,800
don't move but they also don't 
have a lot of breathing room and

737
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:03,120
then Hoka just has they have a 
pretty narrow space in there. 

738
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,160
I I there's a couple shoots that
I feel like it's opened up a 

739
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,640
little bit but they're overall 
still pretty tight. 

740
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,240
I I actually buy, I buy wide 
versions and I have a moderate 

741
00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:17,560
to narrow foot and I prefer the 
wide hookahs. 

742
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,560
Like I got a Wide Speed Goat 5 
and it's like the best fit that 

743
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:26,040
I've had in a Hoka Hoka yet. 
I will say the Simpson 7 is 

744
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,680
probably the widest Hoka I've 
ever worn. 

745
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:32,040
For those who need it, this shoe
has a very wide toe box, and I 

746
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:33,720
was very surprised. 
I was like, whoa, wait, does 

747
00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:35,080
this have enough room? 
What? 

748
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,080
Yeah, I'm not saying all Hoka's 
fit super narrow, but yeah, 

749
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,280
Nathan's totally right. 
Yeah, the other shoe that's fits

750
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:45,720
narrow, I Saucony isn't a not 
super narrow for me at least, 

751
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,520
but the Kinvara is a little bit 
more narrow, definitely, 

752
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,680
definitely like that. 
So I actually get wide for the 

753
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,200
Kinvara as well. 
Is it? 

754
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,680
Which is interesting. 
So I think my feet are also 

755
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,000
changing with all the stuff that
I've had going on this past 

756
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,360
year. 
Maybe that's part of it, but 

757
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:02,520
that's been for the last two 
years. 

758
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:04,160
Anyway, let's move on to the 
next question. 

759
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,880
We got two more we're going to 
try to hit before we sign off 

760
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:08,440
today. 
So the next one, this is from 

761
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:09,800
Rob. 
They're asking about shoe 

762
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:11,840
rotations. 
The question I have here relates

763
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:13,760
to my shoe rotation of five 
shoes. 

764
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:15,760
And he says thank you, Black 
Friday. 

765
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,440
And he says I'm a Vasaki fanboy,
have shoes with various drops of

766
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,880
4 millimeters, 8 millimeters, 
10mm. 

767
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,480
I I've heard that if someone 
would ever pick up a zero drop 

768
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,480
shoe, they should use it 
carefully to help the body 

769
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,240
slowly adapt to the different 
muscle tendon recruitment 

770
00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:35,560
required by the zero drop shoe. 
So regarding my current shoe 

771
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:39,560
rotation, does it matter if I 
run in a 4mm drop shoe one day 

772
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,840
and then the 10mm drop the next?
Does drop variance in a shoe 

773
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,200
rotation matter? 
Or again, is it simply that I 

774
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,560
should just ease into the newer 
shoe with varied drops, starting

775
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,280
with low mileage and get the 
body used to the variance? 

776
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,160
Definitely the second thing, 
yes, like anything that's new, 

777
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,600
like even if if you're someone 
that's used to lower drops and 

778
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,080
you switch to a high drop shoe, 
same concept, because anything 

779
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:07,320
that's very distinctly like 
significantly different than 

780
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,320
stuff you've worn before, you 
should ease into it. 

781
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,560
But I think if you're someone 
that's wearing like a 4mm drop 

782
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,160
shoe and then you're considering
something zero, I don't think 

783
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,840
that's as concerning. 
But there's also several 

784
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,600
different factors that play into
this, because drop is one thing,

785
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,240
but then you have to ask, like, 
what's the foam property? 

786
00:39:25,240 --> 00:39:28,360
Because drop is a dynamic thing 
when you load it, A shoe with 

787
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,920
the firmer midsole is going to 
have a very different, what's 

788
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,000
called dynamic drop than 
something with a really 

789
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,520
compliant one that collapses 
really well depending on where 

790
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,400
you land. 
So the the drop measurements you

791
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,040
get are static, it's measured 
without the foam being loaded 

792
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,040
and that's the problem because 
you will you might notice this. 

793
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:47,840
For those who are more 
experienced with shoes, and we 

794
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,360
certainly do this, could we try 
to comment on does this actually

795
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,680
feel like what the static 
measurements listed or is it 

796
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:54,120
something feel like it's 
different. 

797
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:59,760
So a more compliant foam if you 
heal strike in a 12mm drop shoe,

798
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,520
it might feel 5:00 to 6:00 if 
that shoe is compliant enough 

799
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,600
because you compress the foam so
much that at that position you 

800
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,640
might be at that lower drop as 
you transition over the 

801
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,000
forefoot. 
That too is going to play a role

802
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,400
where if the foam in the 
forefoot's really compliant is 

803
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:19,040
more compliant than necessarily 
the rear foot, that might make 

804
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:20,240
the shoe feel like a higher 
drop. 

805
00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:23,280
So there's a couple other 
factors that go into this. 

806
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,240
So you need to ask, OK, these 
these drop shoes like. 

807
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,400
What's the phone compliance and 
do they actually feel like this?

808
00:40:29,720 --> 00:40:34,160
So well, the question is, again,
if you're going to have a shoe 

809
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,560
rotation, the first thing is, I 
mean, more important than us 

810
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,720
geeking out is you should have 
shoes you want to run in and you

811
00:40:39,720 --> 00:40:41,840
enjoy, right? 
Like that's kind of the big 

812
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:43,800
thing where you don't run in 
stuff that you hate just because

813
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,320
you're looking for variety, 
because that's probably not a 

814
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,400
great idea. 
Find things you enjoy. 

815
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,320
And if there's a couple 
different things you enjoy, 

816
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,080
that's great. 
Because again, one of the few 

817
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,720
things we know on injury 
prevention, one of the rare 

818
00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:58,240
things that if you have a 
variety of footwear and the 

819
00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:02,720
study doesn't specifically say 
what exactly that variety has to

820
00:41:02,720 --> 00:41:04,600
be. 
That they just said two 

821
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,360
different ones. 
Yeah, if you have some variety, 

822
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:12,840
at least two that might benefit 
you if you are used to that, 

823
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:14,840
right? 
That's something that might be 

824
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,920
helpful for you. 
And drop could be that if you 

825
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,960
can handle that variation, some 
people can handle a variety of 

826
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,040
drops. 
They have the mobility in their 

827
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:27,440
ankle, the Achilles tendon 
integrity, the calf function to 

828
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,320
do that. 
Other people might not. 

829
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,600
So that's something you have to 
ask yourself and find out can 

830
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,960
you handle that. 
It looks like from a little look

831
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,520
at what you have between the 
shift speed pro from like 

832
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:43,520
anywhere from like 4:00 to 
10:00-ish, it sounds like you're

833
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,240
OK. 
But those all those shoes also 

834
00:41:45,240 --> 00:41:49,600
have different foams. 
So I think it's part of the 

835
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:51,680
puzzle. 
It's a nice thing to have if you

836
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,720
can handle it. 
It's not a necessary component 

837
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:57,680
'cause there's other ways to 
have create a shoe rotation. 

838
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:01,960
I think also addressing part of 
this question is I am used to a 

839
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:05,600
four, an 8 and A10. 
Does it matter if I use my 4:00 

840
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,800
on Tuesday and you're 10 on 
Thursday? 

841
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,520
I'd say no. 
If your body's used to that 

842
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,760
stress, you can alternate back 
and forth. 

843
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,120
It's not like this acute change 
is going to be a problem. 

844
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,440
In fact, that would be probably 
a beneficial way to use a shoe 

845
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,400
Rotation is to give the once 
your body is accustomed to 

846
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:27,000
whatever the load is, using the 
variance. 

847
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:29,880
If your advantage would look 
like that, it would be using 

848
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,040
one-on-one day and one on the 
next day so that you get a 

849
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:33,680
slightly different stress on the
body. 

850
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,240
So no, that would not be 
something that I would avoid. 

851
00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:39,640
In fact, if your body is already
attuned to these shoes or 

852
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,160
accustomed to them, then that 
would be a way that you can 

853
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,600
maximize a shoe rotation, And I 
agree with you. 

854
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:47,880
I think if you think about 
transitioning, there's no 

855
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,280
perfect way to transition to a 
new type of shoe. 

856
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,720
If you're trying to do it for 
whatever reason, whether you 

857
00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:56,000
really like it or you 
philosophically want to agree 

858
00:42:56,040 --> 00:43:00,640
with some form of shoe design. 
I would say that if you consider

859
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:05,000
how long it takes for muscles 
and bones to adapt, you're 

860
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:09,880
looking at a good 12 weeks 
minimum to make that transition 

861
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,880
happen. 
So you're you're looking at 

862
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,440
months of a transitionary period
if you're going to do it in a 

863
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,280
really smart way because you 
build strength, like to build 

864
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:23,760
strength in a muscle takes at 
least, you know, 8 to 12 weeks. 

865
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:28,040
And I I'm just, I'm just saying 
that change takes a long time. 

866
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:29,320
You got a funny look on your 
face. 

867
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,520
Is it because you've done? 
All of us, the doctors are 

868
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:32,880
running or following that 
advice. 

869
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,240
Yeah, get thrown into new. 
Pairs every week. 

870
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:38,280
Yeah. 
No, but I I think we have. 

871
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,960
I mean, I had to do that when I 
first started and I was sent 

872
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,240
these zero drop shoes. 
I didn't bring them through 

873
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:48,360
testing paces, but I used them 
set eventually I could and so I 

874
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:52,280
think we do now that, but we're 
now attuned to lots of different

875
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,040
variants within shoes so we can 
handle it. 

876
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,680
Plus we're not at the same time,
we're not running in the shoes 

877
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,360
for you know 300 miles. 
Yeah. 

878
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,000
Or 400 or 500 we're getting. 
The shoes don't last me that 

879
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,680
long anyway, except for like The
Tempest and the Super Blast. 

880
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:09,840
So that's true. 
Are those your? 

881
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,400
Two most durable right now. 
Yeah, this question for Matt. 

882
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,000
What are your most durable shoes
so far? 

883
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,880
By far the most durable shoe has
been the the ASIC Super Blast. 

884
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:21,160
I have 200 miles on my pair. 
I need to do a video review. 

885
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:25,320
Where is my where it? 
Oh yeah, here's here's my left 

886
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,840
for those who can see this, This
is 2 months of miles from super 

887
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,440
blast I still haven't worn 
through. 

888
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:32,440
This is insane. 
This is the most durable shoe 

889
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,680
I've ever, ever had. 
For people who are, maybe we 

890
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,440
have a we've had a lot of people
joining us recently. 

891
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:40,720
So thank you for joining. 
For people who don't know this 

892
00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:44,120
about Matt, he has worn 
throughout soles in less than 20

893
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,880
miles on shoes on many 
occasions. 

894
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:48,840
Yes, this is not like a rare 
occurrence. 

895
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:53,480
No, it's so you know, 20 to 50 
if a shoe lasts over 100 miles 

896
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,600
from Matt, it's amazing. 
In terms of outside durability, 

897
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:03,760
even 50 is pretty, which is 
crazy to say, but you so forgive

898
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:06,000
me, 200 miles on a shoe is a 
really big deal. 

899
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,400
It's a big deal. 
I love how that's actually 

900
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,760
gotten like somewhat infamous 
where I've had other Youtubers 

901
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,200
like go, oh, we love like, you 
know, Matt. 

902
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,240
Listen to Matt because. 
Or like following Matt stuff 

903
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:18,920
because we know like I scuff my 
heel and if I know if he the 

904
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:22,200
shoe can handle him it can 
handle me or I forget who it was

905
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,400
and maybe this is be make 
thinking the world revolves 

906
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:26,120
around me. 
But there's a company that was 

907
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,400
talking about their durability 
and sewing Assuming you don't 

908
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,880
have abnormal like scuffing or 
wear patterns this shoe should 

909
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,080
last you. 
I'm like are you referencing me 

910
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:40,680
like is that a or maybe I'm like
but yeah I've I've definitely 

911
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,440
just had had several companies 
like yes our shoes are durable. 

912
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,160
I'm like I ripped through this 
in 20 miles. 

913
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,280
I'm like what? 
What model do you have? 

914
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,240
Can you send us the like the the
number? 

915
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:52,800
Cool. 
All right. 

916
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:54,520
So let's move on to our last 
question here. 

917
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:58,120
But that was a great question on
shoe rotations and hopefully 

918
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,440
that was helpful. 
So this is our final question 

919
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,080
from Paul from Amsterdam, 
Amsterdam. 

920
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:05,400
And they're asking, they're 
trying to work on their 

921
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:07,440
mechanics and equipping 
themselves the complementary 

922
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,720
tools to avoid injuries 
currently running in the Kyano 

923
00:46:10,720 --> 00:46:12,960
30. 
But we'll also switch back, 

924
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,960
planning to switch back to the 
New Balance Bongo V5 as it 

925
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,880
worked better for him. 
With that context they have this

926
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,520
question. 
Something that seems not to work

927
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,960
for me is anything that brings 
premature ground contact. 

928
00:46:25,240 --> 00:46:28,240
I think I've narrowed it down to
two main features, large heat, 

929
00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:31,680
large heel bevels coupled with a
higher drop above 10 

930
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,360
millimetres. 
And their questions are is there

931
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,280
any correlation between a lower 
drop being more stable? 

932
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:41,440
And the 2nd is how does extended
heel bevels that create earlier 

933
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:45,200
ground contact supposedly 
translate to more stability? 

934
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:47,120
Do you want to take the first 
one? 

935
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,320
I'll take the second one. 
I feel like those are like the 

936
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,160
second one is definitely talking
about what's called a posterior 

937
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:53,360
heel. 
Heel flare is another way of 

938
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,880
saying an extended heel. 
You want to take the first part.

939
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,840
Yeah, I they kind of go together
in some ways because I I think, 

940
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,800
and I almost want to start with 
the posterior heel flare because

941
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:09,840
there's a big distinction 
between a flare and when that 

942
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,120
flare is bevelled. 
And I have enough shoes here I 

943
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:13,920
think in front of me to kind of 
point this out. 

944
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:19,000
So just so if we look here at 
the alpha fly, just because 

945
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,320
that's what I have in front of 
me, you know the distance 

946
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:26,760
between the heel and the back 
part of the foam is pretty far, 

947
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:31,400
probably a good inch and 1/2 
which is a very large flare. 

948
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:35,520
However, what they have as well 
is it's beveled, meaning that 

949
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:40,720
the lowest point of contact with
the ground is actually about an 

950
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,720
A centimeter or no, probably 
like 2 inches two or sorry, 2 to

951
00:47:44,720 --> 00:47:47,440
3 centimeters in front of where 
the heel is. 

952
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:52,200
So that lowest point here of the
shoe before it bevels is 

953
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:56,800
actually the interior or in 
front of the heel contact. 

954
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,360
So just because this foam is 
back here, it doesn't mean it's 

955
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:03,120
going to hit the ground. 
The the problem with when you 

956
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,040
have foam extending to the 
backside of a shoe is when you 

957
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,360
have that without an associated 
bevel. 

958
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:10,080
So Matt, I'll let you take it 
from there. 

959
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:14,200
You have another example. 
So this is that, that posterior 

960
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,080
heel flare. 
There's more than just, hey, is 

961
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:17,640
it just the posterior heel 
flare. 

962
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,440
So as Nathan said, in the 
Alphafly, where it actually is 

963
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:24,360
bevel enough, where the apex 
are, where it really comes to 

964
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,840
where it starts of the bevel, If
it's far enough forward, then 

965
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:31,080
you may not have a problem. 
But a shoe like the ASICS Kiano 

966
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:34,520
30, there's still a lot of a lot
of foam back there and you're 

967
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,120
going to, it's not a large 
enough bevel to offset that. 

968
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,480
So what happens with this? 
If you're a heel striker, is 

969
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,120
your heel, your body, your 
proper reception? 

970
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,800
Your body is awareness of where 
it is in space, is your your 

971
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:50,160
body is set up that when you 
land on the ground with, if your

972
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:54,200
heel striker, your muscles will 
kick on just before you hit the 

973
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,320
ground to help prepare you to 
shock absorb. 

974
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:00,200
That is when you land, that is 
when you're absorbing the impact

975
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,400
from landing. 
So if you have a posterior heel 

976
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,240
flare, there's evidence that you
will hit the ground early kind 

977
00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:10,280
of before you're ready. 
So instead of necessarily your 

978
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:14,240
active shock absorbers like 
muscles helping you attenuate 

979
00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:17,160
forces, you're actually going to
be using more of your passive 

980
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,600
structures like ligaments, 
bones, things like that, that 

981
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:22,160
that's what's going to take that
shock. 

982
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,680
And so it can cause a little bit
of jarring and can also call 

983
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,560
what's called cause a premature 
heel contact. 

984
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:33,320
So that's kind of the reason why
that happens. 

985
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:38,480
Drop heel drop is something that
can play into this, but it's 

986
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:42,280
usually separate 'cause you can 
actually have a zero drop shoe, 

987
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:46,440
like what I experienced with the
Paradigm from Ultra, it's a zero

988
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:50,520
drop shoe, but it's got kind of 
a large posterior flare and it 

989
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:52,520
kind of makes the rear foot a 
little clunky and gives me an 

990
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,320
early initial context. 
So I would say the drop's a 

991
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:58,840
little different, personally. 
What do you think? 

992
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:02,120
Yeah, I I think it's an 
interesting one and. 

993
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,520
You tell me if I'm wrong. 
Yeah. 

994
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,120
I don't remember if this shoe is
out of embargo or not. 

995
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,800
So I'm going to just say that 
there is a shoe that's coming 

996
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:14,240
where the company decreased the 
drop in the shoe. 

997
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:15,800
It's one of their stability 
models. 

998
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:19,160
Decreased the drop in the shoe 
in an effort to create a more 

999
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:22,360
stable ride. 
You know what shoe I'm 

1000
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,160
referencing? 
Yeah, I think the wait, where is

1001
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,360
my pair? 
I think the embargo is. 

1002
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:28,360
Well, I hope. 
I hope you're right if you pull 

1003
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:29,800
it out. 
Actually, I don't know this 

1004
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:33,080
because I saw another shoe 
reviewer post it and then the 

1005
00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:35,120
thing was taken down 
immediately, which is kind of 

1006
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:37,920
classic for them. 
So let's be careful with this. 

1007
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,240
Yeah. 
But I think I think that concept

1008
00:50:40,240 --> 00:50:43,240
and that question is interesting
and I think there is a level 

1009
00:50:43,240 --> 00:50:46,120
where it depends on on who you 
are and what sort of stability 

1010
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:49,120
you inherently have. 
If you are in a higher drop 

1011
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:51,960
shoe, there's a chance depending
on how you land that the 

1012
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:54,680
movement of your foot. 
If you're a rear foot striker 

1013
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:58,160
that can lead to a really quick 
movement down of your forefoot 

1014
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:00,760
and then you have to control 
forward translation of your 

1015
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,960
tibia pretty quickly. 
I think about, I think that a 

1016
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,920
great example of this is the 
Wave Rider, it's 12mm drop. 

1017
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:10,680
It does have a little bit more 
of a bulky heel that comes out a

1018
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:13,520
little bit posteriorly, kind of 
a minimal bevel and so you can 

1019
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:17,320
have a very fast transition from
the heel forward because of that

1020
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,240
and that can lead to some, I 
would say feelings of 

1021
00:51:20,240 --> 00:51:24,120
instability where is if you go a
little bit more lower drop, it's

1022
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:26,640
possible that your transition 
speed due to. 

1023
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:30,880
But I do think that the, the, 
the flaring is a necessary part 

1024
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:34,880
of that consideration. 
Because if you have a flare plus

1025
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,240
a high drop, then you have two 
things that are increasing the 

1026
00:51:38,240 --> 00:51:40,680
lever arm around the ankle 
joint. 

1027
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,760
And therefore you're gonna have 
a potentially faster transition 

1028
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,840
due to the external moments 
where if you lower the drop that

1029
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:51,560
brings the access closer to the 
ankle joint itself in all of the

1030
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:53,080
planes. 
And if you have a really nice 

1031
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:56,560
bevel combined with that that 
takes away some of that flaring 

1032
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:01,480
impact, then you could have a an
easier, less externally driven 

1033
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,320
transition forward. 
And I do think that could lead 

1034
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:06,720
to some increased stability. 
So I think it's, I think there's

1035
00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:09,920
some logic there for decreasing 
to a certain amount. 

1036
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,440
But if you go too far down that 
puts a new demand of stability 

1037
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:15,840
on your body. 
Once you're going to zero drop, 

1038
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:19,520
you do have other demands on 
your foot that it, it has to 

1039
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:20,680
handle. 
And if you don't have it, that's

1040
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,080
going to make it less stable. 
So maybe to a point, or if 

1041
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:26,800
you're moving from let's say 
8:00 to 6:00 or 5:50 or 

1042
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:29,080
something like that, there could
be some improvement in 

1043
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,040
stability, but maybe only to a 
point. 

1044
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:34,000
Yeah. 
Can I expand on that a little 

1045
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:35,880
bit? 
So I I think that's very well 

1046
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:41,000
said that you know the extremely
high drop shoes, without taking 

1047
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,800
in other accounts, technically 
there is a possibility for them 

1048
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,560
to feel less stable. 
If you don't like the Wave Rider

1049
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,520
is a shoe that by the way always
feels like it's a stable neutral

1050
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:53,000
shoe for me usually because the 
heel is usually so wide. 

1051
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:55,560
They use side walls, they use 
stuff that does stabilize it 

1052
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:57,920
fairly well. 
A lot of other shoes with like 

1053
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,720
where you have a narrow heel and
a high drop, yes. 

1054
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,720
If there's not something 
stabilizing you, yes, the 

1055
00:53:03,720 --> 00:53:06,560
external moment arms or like a 
lateral flare is going to pitch 

1056
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,520
you more forward as you try to 
transition down and load your 

1057
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:12,440
ankle joint. 
So to A to a degree, I think 

1058
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:17,480
yes, somewhat lower or more 
moderate heel drops might be 

1059
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,120
more stable from what we were 
just talking about. 

1060
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:24,360
If you go too low though, and 
you don't have enough ankle 

1061
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:28,760
dorsiflexion, so at when the 
lower drop you go, the more 

1062
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,960
movement and more extremes of 
motion is required from your 

1063
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:35,160
ankle joint or your tail or 
cruel joint if you don't have 

1064
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:37,400
that motion. 
If you're too stiff your your 

1065
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:40,400
joints, too stiff your your 
ankle, your muscles are too, 

1066
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,760
don't have enough flexibility, 
then you're actually going to 

1067
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:47,240
increase your instability. 
Because the way the foot works 

1068
00:53:47,240 --> 00:53:50,760
is everything after the ankle 
joint, all of the joints are in 

1069
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,200
this in basically in diagonal 
planes or in like side to side. 

1070
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:56,800
So if you don't have that 
movement, you're going to 

1071
00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:00,240
compensate by going excessively 
medially or laterally, which is 

1072
00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:03,400
going to compromise your 
stability no matter how wide the

1073
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,400
shoe is. 
So if you don't have the 

1074
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,720
appropriate available range of 
motion in the Taylor crew joint 

1075
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:11,520
as you go to lower drop, that 
actually might make things less 

1076
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,200
stable. 
If you do have it, there's a 

1077
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,440
potential it might, but I think 
it depends. 

1078
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,560
There's an extreme and kind of a
middle ground that's going to 

1079
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:23,280
work for most people, rather 
than just assuming the lower I 

1080
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:25,240
go, the more stable. 
It is right? 

1081
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:27,920
Totally. 
I think it's a really 

1082
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:32,120
interesting question and I think
I think they they hit on two 

1083
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:35,720
things that definitely can 
impact stability, primarily that

1084
00:54:35,720 --> 00:54:39,000
the beveling and the flaring. 
And I think in a in a state of 

1085
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:41,600
running shoes right now that 
we're in with a lot of higher 

1086
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:45,680
stack maximal stuff, flaring is 
used a lot to create a wider 

1087
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:47,920
base because of how much foam is
underneath the foot. 

1088
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:53,160
And if you don't bevel it well 
you that flaring is going to is 

1089
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:55,520
going to make your initial 
contact with the ground 

1090
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:58,240
different and for some people is
going to cause issues. 

1091
00:54:58,240 --> 00:55:00,040
For other people it's going to 
be like oh, I don't even notice 

1092
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,040
that at all. 
And that's the beauty of the 

1093
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:04,920
subjectivity of running shoes. 
It's going to Everybody's going 

1094
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:06,800
to have a different experience 
in the shoe. 

1095
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:09,600
This is This is why we talk 
about heel bevels so much. 

1096
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,680
With the higher stack heights 
you need to have things placed 

1097
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,280
correctly to have a a good 
normal transition. 

1098
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:17,800
So much so I feel like the rest 
of the team makes fun of me for 

1099
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:19,400
heel, heel bubbles. 
Everybody know the the Will 

1100
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:21,640
Ferrell thing were like more 
cowbell and then they make fun 

1101
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:24,400
of me saying more heel bevel. 
You're literally in my head. 

1102
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:28,200
I was, I was about to say I want
if we ever get to the point 

1103
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:31,320
where we can actually create 
merch for like people to buy, I 

1104
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:35,440
want one to say like instead of 
more cowbell, more heel bevel or

1105
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,360
let's go or like a got heel 
bevel with a question mark or 

1106
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:40,520
something like that. 
I knew that was coming, 'cause 

1107
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,800
you bought David BJ. 
Everybody's made fun of me for 

1108
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:45,920
that. 
So David especially, so, yeah. 

1109
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:49,200
Yes, that'd be great. 
At some point, yeah, we'll have 

1110
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:52,120
that merch and we'll sell. 
So it says more more heel bevel 

1111
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:54,360
or got heel bevel. 
I think that'd be fun. 

1112
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:57,200
Anyway, Anything else on this 
question, Matt? 

1113
00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:59,320
Not that I could. 
I'm proud of myself that I 

1114
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,960
didn't go on for 40 minutes on 
posterior posterior heel flares.

1115
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:04,360
But yes. 
Proud of you. 

1116
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:08,080
That was actually, I think, my 
first review that I ever wrote 

1117
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,880
for doctors running was the 361 
Meraki 2. 

1118
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:15,000
Oh yeah. 
And I wrote about heel. 

1119
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,040
I I wrote about posterior heel 
flare. 

1120
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:21,160
And I remember drying on my I 
took like screenshots on my iPad

1121
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:24,440
and drew Torque thing. 
I remember that, yeah. 

1122
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:28,240
That was my first thing I ever 
did, and so I'll have fun. 

1123
00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:30,800
I always have fond memories 
thinking about posterior heel 

1124
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:32,800
flare. 
Shout out to 360 what? 

1125
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:35,400
We haven't tried any of their 
stuff recently but they are have

1126
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:37,520
finally after out how many years
has it been? 

1127
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:40,520
They are actually putting some 
heel bevels on their shoes so I 

1128
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:41,120
they. 
All right. 

1129
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,160
Looks they look different. 
Different. 

1130
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:46,560
I'm proud, different. 
I would, I will say those some 

1131
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,240
of the silhouettes that I've 
that we saw in the past like 

1132
00:56:49,240 --> 00:56:53,600
Spire 5 on the online the IT 
looked more beveled than it. 

1133
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:57,160
Came actually. 
Was so I'm curious, yeah, if we 

1134
00:56:57,160 --> 00:56:58,800
end up testing them I'd be 
curious to see. 

1135
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:02,440
But it does seem like they've 
made some pretty overhaul like 

1136
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:04,440
changes to geometry, which is 
pretty cool. 

1137
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:07,560
So all right. 
Well, thank you all for hanging 

1138
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:10,320
with us and for those of you who
are new to the podcast, we thank

1139
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:12,600
you for joining us. 
If you are willing to take 10 

1140
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:16,040
seconds to review this podcast, 
it really helps it continue to 

1141
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,640
grow. 
We love doing this. 

1142
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:22,560
It's what we do on the as our 
side hustle here and it's it's a

1143
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:24,440
fun one. 
So we're thankful for. 

1144
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:26,760
Yeah. 
By the way, we record these 

1145
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:28,560
every usually every Sunday 
night. 

1146
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:30,880
That's how much we love you as 
we take time away from the 

1147
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:35,160
weekend to plan these and then 
record them on a weekend night 

1148
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:37,720
before a work day, so. 
Yeah, it's fun. 

1149
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,400
Yeah, We love you all and I love
you, Matt. 

1150
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:43,120
So it's fun to just hang out, 
hang out together. 

1151
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:45,960
So thanks for joining us today 
and we'll talk to you next time.