1 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,200 Hey everyone, and welcome to doctors running podcast where we 2 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,040 a group of doctors physical therapy, talk about the art and 3 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:18,440 the science of the things on our feet. 4 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,400 Today we have some incredible guests that have decided to join 5 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,160 us. So Chris Brewer, Suits Gay and 6 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:28,440 Susan have been so kind to join myself and Doctor Myers talking 7 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,000 about some really cool stuff that's come from Mizuno, 8 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:35,280 especially with a big focus on the new Mizuno Neo Vista. 9 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,520 So, Andrew, I'm gonna let you take this because we've got a 10 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,680 really cool group here. Yeah, I'm thank you guys so much 11 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,720 for joining us today. I have been so excited by your 12 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,720 new line of shoes this year. Definitely found my new favorite 13 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:55,400 marathon racer in the Wave Rebellion Pro 2, which I have 14 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:57,960 here. Unfortunately I didn't get to 15 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,920 race in it in Osaka 'cause I got COVID 2 weeks before, but my 16 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,319 next marathon is definitely gonna be in the shoe. 17 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,240 Or maybe the three, whenever that might come out. 18 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:11,800 We'll see. The Flash Two has become one of 19 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,560 my favorite easy run shoes and performance trainers. 20 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,480 I've got a ton of miles on it. Like these shoes have really 21 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,240 kind of been game changing for me as a mid foot striker cause 22 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:26,840 so many shoes just don't feel designed for the way I run, but 23 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:31,680 these shoes definitely do. And then of course the Neo Vista 24 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:33,520 has been really exciting to test. 25 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:36,960 Really been enjoying putting some miles on it the past 26 00:01:36,960 --> 00:01:39,680 several weeks. Same kind of feel, although it's 27 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,920 definitely a different shoe than the Rebellion Pro and Rebellion 28 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,720 Flash. But I just can't wait to hear 29 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:51,080 your input on how these shoes were designed, what you had in 30 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:55,160 mind when you came up with the pretty radical heel design of 31 00:01:55,160 --> 00:02:00,040 the Pro and the Flash. So again, welcome. 32 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:04,320 And I think we should start off by Susan and Schunsky telling us 33 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,160 a little bit about yourselves, what your role is at Mizuno. 34 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:09,240 So, Susan, let's start with Hero. 35 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,000 OK, thank you. My name is Susan. 36 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,800 This is my American nickname. So my action is Ayako, by the 37 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,320 way. And I've been working for Mizuno 38 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:23,920 like 15 years already. Then I've been doing running 39 00:02:23,920 --> 00:02:27,080 footwear planning for over 8 years right now. 40 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:32,200 So yeah, I've been working on and creating a lot of stuff at 41 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,520 Mizuno already. So I'm so excited to be with you 42 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,360 guys today and excited to talk about our shoes in history. 43 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:41,360 OK. Thank you. 44 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:43,920 Thanks so much. And Shinsuke, what is your role 45 00:02:43,920 --> 00:02:48,080 at Mizuno? Yeah, yeah, nice to meet you. 46 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:53,240 I'm Shunsui, the manager of the product planning of running 47 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,200 footwear global headquarter base. 48 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,200 And now I am leading the footwear planning in the 49 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,480 footwear design for running shoes. 50 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,960 Then I was in charge of making this kind of new lineup 51 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,560 collection right where Rebellion and the Never Wasted. 52 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,600 I'm the partner of these models. So I'm very, yeah, I feel very 53 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,840 excited to introduce our model to you guys. 54 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:18,640 Yeah. Thank you for giving me the good 55 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:20,400 opportunity. Yeah, Thank you. 56 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:22,320 Thank you so much guys for joining us. 57 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:26,480 And I know that we're spanning many time zones here from New 58 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,520 York all the way to Japan. So this is pretty cool that 59 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,200 we've all been able to get together and record this. 60 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:36,120 So I we have so many questions for you about your shears, but I 61 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:40,280 think a big question that we all often have between ourselves and 62 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:44,240 also from listeners is you've got a few different types of NRZ 63 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:46,280 foam. There's NRZ Light, NRZ Light 64 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:50,120 Plus, and now the Neo Vista has NRZ Light next. 65 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,880 So can you tell us what the differences are between these 66 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:58,840 foams and how you choose which ones to use in your various 67 00:03:58,840 --> 00:03:59,920 shoes? Yeah. 68 00:03:59,960 --> 00:04:03,320 So first, we thank you for paying attention to our missile 69 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,920 foam. Yeah, yeah. 70 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,880 So we have several types of forms in the reasonable energy 71 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,040 line up. So reasonable energy and the 72 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:18,600 right and the right for us and the core and next OK now shortly 73 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,920 say the reason of energy is a very standard type. 74 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:26,880 They're responsive and the soft material for running shoes then 75 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:31,160 writing the right for us is a right away version for more for 76 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:34,000 the speed model like Web Reverium Pro and the Flash. 77 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:41,760 And core is the softest and most responsive material and that is 78 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:48,080 used for Web sky and Web Horizon that kind of rugger issues. 79 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,600 And next is the newest one for us. 80 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:56,000 This is, yeah, basically this is a replacement of the core 81 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:01,400 because the core had the softest and the most responsive feature. 82 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,720 But on the other hand, it's a little bit heavier material when 83 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,040 compared with the other material. 84 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,840 So this time we made miserable energy Next and the first 85 00:05:11,840 --> 00:05:13,880 introduction of the product is Nail Vista. 86 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,120 This is very soft, responsive and lightweight material. 87 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:26,040 Then some of the model we will launch later this year where we 88 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:31,480 use this material instead of energy core, but even we remove 89 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,240 energy core inside of the missile. 90 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:37,920 So we have the more softer field and the more responsive field 91 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,320 that will be the new energy next material. 92 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:46,200 So basic material has energy and right and right for us is a 93 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:50,480 force field model and the next is the next generation of 94 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,720 radiology model missile for the daily trainers. 95 00:05:54,840 --> 00:05:57,800 Can you tell us what shoes coming out later this year? 96 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:03,240 We'll have NRZ next in them. That might be one of those. 97 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:04,720 Questions exactly. Nickname. 98 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:09,880 That's Yeah, I can say that our main daily trainers will be 99 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:14,680 replaced to Anderson. That's going to be interesting. 100 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,840 And are those shoes coming out this summer, this fall? 101 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,040 Yeah. And yeah, a few days after. 102 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:29,520 Oh yeah, yeah. I was really struck by just the 103 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:33,400 different feel of energy Next compared to any of your other 104 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,240 phones. I mean, one of the things that's 105 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,200 really great about the Neo Vista is for a super trainer, it's 106 00:06:39,280 --> 00:06:44,960 very lightweight, but it's still quite soft but also responsive, 107 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,720 which you don't really list all of those features in a super 108 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:50,640 trainer. Usually you've got either a soft 109 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,760 shoe, but it's heavy or responsive shoe, but it's firm. 110 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,960 But this shoe really surprised me that it kind of had all 111 00:06:57,960 --> 00:06:59,800 three. It was light, it was responsive 112 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,960 and it was cushioned. And it seemed to me that the 113 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:09,320 like big split in the midsole played a big role in that feel 114 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:14,720 of the shoe because it kind of lets the the midsole expand out 115 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,360 when you load it. Is that correct? 116 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,160 Is that kind of how you designed it to perform? 117 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,960 Yeah, actually, yeah. I have to say in today's market 118 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,760 there softness and responsiveness and the right of 119 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,520 it, everything is very important for Super Trainer. 120 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:34,920 Yeah. And so we need to take care 121 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:39,680 about taking how we can take the balance of these three key 122 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:44,600 features of the shoes. Then this time the rightness of 123 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,320 the nail Vista is actually coming from Rebellion Pro. 124 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,800 Yeah. So this time we made this shoot 125 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,600 based on Rebellion Pro. Yeah. 126 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,880 So this is really lightweight shoes then. 127 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:04,320 So we made we arranged this shoot to the daily training. 128 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,800 So bringing the technology and innovation of Nail Web Rebellion 129 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:15,040 Pro to the daily training is a mission for the development of 130 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:20,440 Nail Vista. Then actually this construction 131 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,560 contributes to the right away and the more energy output. 132 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:26,960 And this is coming from Rebellion Flow. 133 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:33,159 Yeah, the dynamic bottom sole geometry and the big group and 134 00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:35,919 the center of the outsole is coming from this shoe. 135 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,679 On this shoe. The actual the feeling, yeah. 136 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,760 N as in next is also, yeah, contributes to the softness and 137 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:43,720 the responsiveness of this nail Vista. 138 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,680 So although the Neo Vista is really meant as a daily trainer, 139 00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:50,920 although I would, I would argue that it has lots of different 140 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:54,120 things it can do as I've been able to push it far faster than 141 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,720 any super shoe I've ever had. It's it really a lot of the 142 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,800 inspiration comes from your racing line of going, how do we 143 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,320 take these racing elements and give this into somebody who 144 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:05,800 wants this in a daily training shoe? 145 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:10,440 You can certainly see the similarity in geometry between 146 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:14,000 the Wave Rebellion Pro and the Neo Vista. 147 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,360 But could you talk a little bit about the difference between the 148 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:19,480 foams that you use in those two shoes? 149 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,560 Because they certainly, I mean the geometries aren't the same, 150 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,640 but the foam has a very different feel between the two 151 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:27,240 shoes. Yeah. 152 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:32,280 The firstly the geometry is, yeah, a little bit for the daily 153 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:36,920 training speed, Yeah, we have very, let's say geometry of the 154 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,720 bottom sole and let's say foot angle. 155 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:45,240 This is actually the 11 degree. So when you step in the shoe, so 156 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:49,880 your foot is automatically arranged for the to 11 degree in 157 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:54,880 this shoes, but it is arranged for five degree in this shoe 158 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:01,320 that foot angle and inside of the is a 5° is a little bit 159 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,400 yeah, so roll down arranged for the daily speed, yeah. 160 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:12,480 Then material energy next is a little bit oranges for the 161 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,200 softer side based on the material on the ebelium floor. 162 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,760 Yeah, for the racing shoes, of course the responsiveness is the 163 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:24,840 most prioritized, the feature or the missile form that sometimes 164 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,840 it is too much response for the daily training phase. 165 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,920 So we arranged that responsiveness feature of the 166 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:37,240 these form into a little bit more softer side that still need 167 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,160 to be lightweight. Yeah, that is the difference 168 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,640 between the nail based and Rebellion Pro. 169 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:48,360 So all four race day, all four, the training day is the big 170 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,480 difference between these two shoes. 171 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,960 So are is it true that what I'm, what I'm hearing is that the 172 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:58,120 foams in terms of the composition is actually similar. 173 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,480 However, you've modified some other factors to make it, you 174 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,280 know, to change things like resiliency or compression rates 175 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:10,480 to make it want to more, more of a daily training shoe versus 176 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,760 that raised tissue. So very similar foam compounds 177 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,840 still I'm guessing PBA based or I don't know if we can ask you 178 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,960 that, So just let me know. Yeah, the technically the base 179 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:26,520 material and the process of energy right and right plus and 180 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:28,640 energy next is totally different. 181 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:33,240 Yeah, yeah. So we use the Super critical 182 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,320 material on the top missile. This is the energy right plus 183 00:11:36,680 --> 00:11:40,880 and the nylon based B's form on the bottom side. 184 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:46,600 That is energy right. But this time energy next is 185 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,240 basically this is an easier form, not the Super critical, 186 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:55,600 not the nylon base that this time we carefully choose to pick 187 00:11:55,600 --> 00:12:00,080 that the very special type of base material for this Enozonex. 188 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:06,040 Then actually we did the tons of trial for making this new form. 189 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,320 It was wrong way to make this material. 190 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:15,320 And now I am now we are sitting on the Innovation Center beside 191 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,760 the headquarters of Mizuno, Japan. 192 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,680 Yeah. So we have a big level and the 193 00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:25,840 backside of ourselves then. So we need a tons of trial and 194 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,440 this innovation centre. So make it pick up the base 195 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,440 material and make form and testing the feature of the 196 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:37,520 material, then arrange their base material in the process 197 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,680 again and again and again and again. 198 00:12:39,680 --> 00:12:43,920 Try and so many trials we did in this innovation centre. 199 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:50,520 Then when we make it softer side, usually that become 200 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:58,480 heavier then and if we want to make it more responsive, usually 201 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:03,640 it may be far more side. So taking the balance between 202 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,600 your softness and the responsiveness and the right 203 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:12,000 way, it is a very difficult, not easy for us, but yeah, tons of 204 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,200 trial. So with the Innovation Center 205 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:18,240 that quickly we made that this new material, yeah, this is 206 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,680 still easy material that probably this is a yeah, best of 207 00:13:22,680 --> 00:13:24,960 best EV material in Mizuno history. 208 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,520 I would agree that it's a very good Eva material. 209 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:29,600 I mean, would you have guessed that it? 210 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,040 Was Eva, Somebody mentioned that like that's not, there's no way 211 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,320 this is Eva. So I just, I'm going to take all 212 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,840 my material science phone knowledge and throw it out the 213 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,440 window because I I don't understand anymore. 214 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:45,160 Wow, so I mean everyone tried this shoe, felt that this is the 215 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,960 Super critical material when nylon best is something that 216 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,880 this is still Eva material. Well, I need to go rewrite my 217 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:53,560 review really quick. I'll be right back. 218 00:13:53,560 --> 00:13:57,640 I'm just kidding. He'll do it later. 219 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:04,200 So I'm glad you brought up the angle of the Wave Rebellion Pro 220 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,960 and the Neo Vista because I had a question about the differences 221 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,200 between the shoes. So one, if you could tell us 222 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,160 what the angle is in the Flash too and how it's different. 223 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:18,280 But also, how did your research lead you to those angles for the 224 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:22,320 various shoes? The first is the fresh is a 6th 225 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,640 degree. That means between these two 226 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:29,080 shoes, Yeah, so rest the option for the elite speed and the 227 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:33,480 training option and the fresh is in between these models, 11 228 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:37,480 degree, 5° and 6th degree is the fresh. 229 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:42,360 OK, sorry. Yeah, fresh is yeah, still five 230 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,520 degree. Yeah, the same degree with a 231 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:49,600 bastard, that's the failing of missile form and the width and 232 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:51,600 the bottom saw is a little bit different. 233 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:56,280 The flash is basically a lace option and the speed training 234 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:02,920 option, so it weight is relatively right away than this. 235 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,760 Yeah, that's basically the shoe character is between these two 236 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:10,840 shoes race day and training and speed training or the race day 237 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:18,560 option for the little bit lower speed runners then yeah, how we 238 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:25,480 decide the angle of foot bottoms of geometry of Liberian probe. 239 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:31,840 It is very secret point of Mesono development then that 240 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,880 this is a very good opportunity to tell you about something 241 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:42,840 about this development. Probably you don't know much 242 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:44,560 about these shoes that this is a. 243 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,160 We do. We both want to. 244 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,640 Actually, Bach are one of our like social media managers had 245 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,640 to keep telling me, Matt, do not buy those on eBay. 246 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,520 Do not buy those on Rakuten. Leave it alone. 247 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,840 It's not available in the US. Don't review that yet. 248 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:06,760 So yeah, we do know. Yes, we're big fans, even though 249 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,440 we haven't run in it. This super aggressive geometry 250 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:15,440 shoe is main mainly made for the Japanese market and two years 251 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:16,480 ago. Yeah. 252 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,320 And this is the beginning point of our bottom sole geometry 253 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:21,520 history. Yeah. 254 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:27,080 And this shoe was made from, not made from running shoes. 255 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,840 This is made from track spike. Yeah. 256 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,760 The beginning point of development has started in three 257 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:37,440 to four years ago. Yeah. 258 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,680 One development guy brags through the idea. 259 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:47,720 So if we can run with the splint spike for the marathon business, 260 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,680 that will be the fastest racing shoe ever, because for the short 261 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,040 distance, this is, Yeah, best shoes. 262 00:16:56,360 --> 00:17:01,600 That's so we understand. So we cannot run marathon 263 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,640 distance with this shoes. So without any cushion in a too 264 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:09,599 aggressive geometry that if you can extend its distance with a 265 00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:14,400 crucial material like this. So that way with the yeah, best 266 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,359 speed shoes ever, that is a yeah, beginning concept of this 267 00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:21,079 aggressive geometry. OK. 268 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:28,160 Then we researched tons of elite runners, the foot angle and 269 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:33,440 especially in the rounding phase and the kicking phase, Yeah, and 270 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:38,880 the most of the lead runners are round and middle to four foot, 271 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:45,360 then kicking on this angle and average angle of this rounding 272 00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:51,360 and the kicking was between 616° to 12°. 273 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:56,800 Yeah, that most of the running shoe in the market is very 274 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:02,080 fraught. So that means so when then this 275 00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:06,360 runs on the in the running phase and the kicking phase, there are 276 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:12,360 space on this side. And we if we can fill this space 277 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:17,400 with a very responsive form so we can support push out 278 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,400 sensation not only from the forefoot but also from the mid 279 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:27,320 foot that will be at acoustic pop on the and the foot in every 280 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:31,320 step in the Morrison distance. Yeah, that is a beginning point 281 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:38,480 of this aggressive geometry. Then when we decide actual 282 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,320 degree and foot degree of the Liberian pro and the flash and 283 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:46,800 the bistor. So we made tons of sample, yeah, 284 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:52,400 testing sample with four degree, five degree, six degree, eight 285 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:58,080 degree, 9:00 and 11:00, that kind of test sample we made and 286 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:03,120 did a test with elite athletes. And for the process speed, yeah, 287 00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:06,720 most run to choose the 11 degree, the most aggressive 288 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,720 geometry for the fastest speed. But for the middle speed, they 289 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,800 preferred the six to eight. Yeah, that kind of yeah. 290 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,120 Try out and get feedback from the athletes and the very 291 00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:22,280 authentic process of development of their performance running 292 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:27,320 shoes. And we did with so many Japanese 293 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,960 elite athletes. So I made I brought the tons of 294 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:37,040 sample to the training place for the elite university or the 295 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,800 place in the mountainside. Then I got the tons of feedback 296 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,640 from more than handed to 200 testers. 297 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:50,120 Yeah, then decided the degree. Did you test any issues at like 298 00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:53,800 greater than 11°? Is that is the wave dual pro 299 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:58,840 greater than 11 degrees? Yeah, this is yeah, actually 11 300 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:00,360 degree. OK. 301 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,440 Yeah. But yeah, the heel area is too 302 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:09,680 short and too resting and we extend it's we keep the angle 303 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,800 that extended this support area into more heel side. 304 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,000 Yeah, that creates additional stability on the midfield side. 305 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,400 It's probably it is very difficult to run marathon 306 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:27,720 distance with the shoe through the heads in Tehran that so we 307 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,680 extend its distance to the marathon distance with the yeah 308 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:33,760 additional platform on the hillside. 309 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,120 That makes a lot of sense. What do you find athletes use 310 00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:41,760 the wave dual pro for shorter races like 5K and below? 311 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,280 Or is that what you intended it for? 312 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:50,880 Depends on the case that yeah, sometimes they run the 5K or 10K 313 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,960 and yeah, the best for this shows that we needed to do the 314 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,760 test with the marathon distance. But someone does, yeah, run the 315 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,440 marathon distance for the testing and to get the feedback 316 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,560 from them. And fortunately we have a really 317 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:09,600 good marathon races in our internal development team. 318 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:15,120 Some of the some, yeah, some of them engineers are really good 319 00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:18,920 runners and doing tests with the external museum athletes and the 320 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,600 internal museum engineers. So the mixing the feedback from 321 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:27,800 the both side as really yeah, good fit, good process to make 322 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,200 performance vanishes. Definitely when you have someone 323 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,720 who is both during the running and the shoe developing, that's 324 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:40,120 the best of both worlds. Now, did the angle change in 325 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,080 version one is version 111 degrees or is it less? 326 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:51,560 Also eleven, Yeah. The variant pro one is 6°, Yeah. 327 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:57,360 So when I brought the six degree variant pro one to the athletes, 328 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:02,360 some of them are very satisfied with its speed that some of the 329 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:07,240 athletes. So it is more elite side wonders 330 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,480 and not satisfied 100% for that speed. 331 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:16,520 Then I changed the degree to more aggressive 1 to get more 332 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,040 speed. So now they are very satisfied 333 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:24,840 with this aggressive geometry and the benefit and the failing 334 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:29,760 of Liberian program was an actual hint of you based. 335 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:36,640 Yeah, because so when I brought the Liberian pro 1 sample to the 336 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,200 elite athletes. So after the hard training 337 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:45,120 session, so they didn't feel so tired compared with the shoe, 338 00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:52,520 with the yeah, other shoes. So even they did a very hard 339 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:58,680 training the next day they felt not so tired, especially for the 340 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,000 calf muscle. Yeah, that was the beginning 341 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,120 point of development of Vista. That does a yeah, a very good 342 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:10,120 impression for us. Then I felt the benefit of 343 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,760 smooth speed assist the bottom. So geometry is yeah good for 344 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,200 race day, that's also good for training day. 345 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:23,320 Then bringing the technology and innovation to daily running the 346 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,840 training session could be may work in the market for late 347 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:29,760 athletes. That is a beginning point of 348 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,440 nail based development. The Neo Vista, the geometry 349 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,880 talking about like, again, talking about the angulation and 350 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,200 things like that. I'm really curious how you took 351 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,560 a shoe that was so soft and responsive and also made it 352 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:44,600 stable. Now this is still a neutral shoe 353 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,600 and I get that. But I'm curious how you utilize 354 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,920 a combination of the plate geometry and some of this 355 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,880 actually make the steel still feel stable, which I'm assuming 356 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,680 that's when you talk about like you the the angles of the foot 357 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:58,600 and trying to keep things a little bit more centered. 358 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,320 I don't know if I asked that question very well, but how did 359 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,920 you use the plate and the geometry to make this more 360 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,360 stable than typically soft shoes are? 361 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,560 Yeah, the stable ride is really important. 362 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:17,480 The proc features for today's running shoes and Susan is the 363 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:22,520 actual specialist of stability development team. 364 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:27,680 So because C and now she's in charge of the stability daily 365 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:32,720 trainers like Web Inspire our web writer or Web Sky that kind 366 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,800 of models. So it is very good opportunity 367 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,840 to talk about stability from suit and side. 368 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,600 Yeah. So using a wave plate with a 369 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:47,840 soft material is our our unique point then you know, usually the 370 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:54,240 plate using a plate that makes the shoe really firm, but we you 371 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,680 have to adjust the whole midsole geometry to make it more bouncer 372 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,080 softer. Yeah, while using a wave plate. 373 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:08,280 So those aggressive cut out of the outsole is one of those 374 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:14,640 features then. So because of those cut out that 375 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,400 helps to deform the midsole or the bounce back to the top, 376 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:25,560 bounce back with the wave plate responsiveness and these yeah, 377 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:32,080 these combinations the we've been developing, we played for 378 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:38,360 over 25 years now. Then our engineers, many 379 00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:44,520 engineers worked on cut out and like a shave the mid socket 380 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,000 geometry. Then found out all these are 381 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:53,560 good balance for this. And then yeah, talking about the 382 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:58,360 wave plate, we started with this really baby wave plate. 383 00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:02,120 This is started in 1997. This is the original 1. 384 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:08,920 Then we changed all of shapes and materials and found out 385 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:13,600 what's the best shape. It's the best angle, best 386 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,120 material. Number of wave. 387 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,560 Number of wave they used one, yeah. 388 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:23,000 So, yeah. Then also one of the best 389 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,320 feature, the very important point of the wave plate is the 390 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:32,200 stability. So we have our best with and 391 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,360 have lengths bounce of the wave plate that can deliver a nice 392 00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:39,520 stability. So yeah, that's what we have 393 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:40,840 developing. Yeah. 394 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:47,120 So in today's market, the run issues with frayed is very 395 00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:50,000 common and today's run issues industry bet. 396 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,920 So we have probably, yeah, the longest history with the run 397 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,880 issues with freight. So because the first web rider 398 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,680 was come in 1997, that means that more than 25 years ago, 399 00:27:02,360 --> 00:27:06,480 yeah, then so we made so many towns of development that 400 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,800 created the town, so many types of a wave in the history. 401 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,920 And yeah, it's really good momentum for us to yeah, be the 402 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,920 running shoes with freight is very common in the market. 403 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,960 So that I apologize that I cut out, but that's that I was 404 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,280 saying that Mizuno has the most experience with plates because 405 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,520 you've been doing plated shoes before pretty much anyone of 406 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,360 those couple people in like early 90s, eighties. 407 00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:33,760 But Mizuno was the original group that was doing that. 408 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,880 So what I'm hearing is it's not just the foam and it's very easy 409 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,160 as a consumer to go, oh, it must be the foam that's giving the 410 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,000 softness. It's the geometry of this being 411 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,320 able to split. It's also the plate being able 412 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,240 to deform correctly that that actually adds to the combination 413 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,560 of the responsiveness and softness. 414 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,040 So it's not just foam that can create that soft feel. 415 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,880 It's the combination of all the factors together that will do 416 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:00,680 that. And so that's why it's maybe 417 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,160 that's why I'm going, oh, this has to be a, a super critical 418 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:04,760 PBA based foam. You're like, no, it's, it's an 419 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:06,520 Eva foam. So now that makes. 420 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,680 Sense now I get it. Yeah, because of the responses. 421 00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:15,760 Got it. Yeah, the combination of got it 422 00:28:16,360 --> 00:28:19,680 construction. Now can I ask in terms of how 423 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,960 you set up this central groove, I noticed that the four foot, 424 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,440 the medial aspect is filled in. Is that intentional? 425 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,200 And can I ask what that's for? Because I have a hypothesis, but 426 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:30,640 I might be wrong, I'm just curious. 427 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,920 Yeah, the alley of four foot is a little bit lens from the way 428 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,720 of Liberalium Pro to the more stable. 429 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:43,560 Yeah, so for the middle foot to the forefoot, so it should be 430 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:49,240 more wider than the barium probe, because in order to make 431 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,520 stable riders during all of the training session, so we need a 432 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,560 stable filling on the mid foot to forfeit more. 433 00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:02,280 And actually the net base of male Vista is really wide. 434 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,680 So when we compare with the Wave rider, our standard very trailer 435 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:12,360 and the forefoot and the rear foot is 4mm wider, then in the 436 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:18,040 mid foot 25mm more wider, Yeah, so very wide. 437 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,880 That's still rightweight because of the feature of meso as the 438 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,640 next compound and the big groove on the center of the also. 439 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,200 I was very impressed because a lot of times I always want a 440 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,800 wider midfoot because I'm someone who typically needs 441 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,440 stability. That's why I love the Wave 442 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,680 Horizon so much. Yeah, by the way, I have like 443 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,520 150 miles on this shoe, so I really am enjoying it. 444 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,200 The so one of the challenges a lot of companies obviously you 445 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,640 can the, the midfoot width will impact the stiffness of the 446 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,280 shoe. And so I was very impressed that 447 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:55,160 you managed to make a very wide midfoot without making the well 448 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,520 without negatively affecting the transition. 449 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,640 So that comes into, again, I'm assuming you're using not just 450 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,720 the width to change how it transitions, but also the plate, 451 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,480 the foams, everything has to be tuned at each point of the shoe. 452 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,240 So I'm assuming different parts of the plate are tuned very 453 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,200 differently then? Yes. 454 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:19,400 So that's why we make a make a little different shape. 455 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:24,800 Yeah, even inside of the wave. This is a Rider wave blade that 456 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,720 yeah, we changed the thickness and the small detail of the 457 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,240 shape of the wave blade by the model. 458 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:33,800 Yeah. Getting back to Matt asked a 459 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,720 question that I was actually interested in. 460 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:40,080 I don't know if it came across correctly, but the way that you 461 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:44,400 designed the cut out in the forefoot, where it's more 462 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:49,760 laterally biased and the medial part has more, it doesn't have a 463 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,400 cut out on the medial side. For me, that made it feel like 464 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,560 it was easier to transition and to push off. 465 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,360 Like it helped me load my first MTP joint. 466 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,560 Was that design intentional? Was that what you meant to do by 467 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,120 biasing the cut out towards the lateral forefoot? 468 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,800 Yeah. So for the neutral runners, we 469 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:17,880 they run at the on the lateral side, then transition through to 470 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:23,240 the like a fourth medial side. So that's why we always focus on 471 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,600 this streamline. Then where people usually kick 472 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,120 out, kick really hard is this area. 473 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,760 So we widen this area compared to the. 474 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:35,400 That's right here. Yeah. 475 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,280 So that's what you're. Saying yeah, how we can make 476 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:44,000 smooth body transition from running to kicking and yeah, 477 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:49,240 design yeah behind of this also. Yeah, that's definitely how it 478 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,920 felt running in it. We're we're always looking for 479 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,160 shoes that we can suggest that creates unique forms of 480 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,880 stability at each part of the foot, frequently the front of 481 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:00,520 the foot. Where you I, I forget, by the 482 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,360 way, that frequently Japan, the term kick is used off in the 483 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,160 United States, or at least on the the I have to realize the 484 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:07,840 West Coast and East Coast could sometimes different. 485 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,720 We'll on the we'll typically use terminal stance or propulsion 486 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,480 for kicking for those listeners. I know I know you 2 know this, 487 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,720 but finding something that creates guidance and stability 488 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,000 at the forefoot is rare. I I personally feel that isn't 489 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,560 always focused on. So it's a very unique point and 490 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,160 really helps emphasize that. This definitely is inspired by 491 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,720 the Rebellion Pro 2 because you're still thinking, how can 492 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,480 we facilitate, even at daily paces, a better transition while 493 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,480 you kick? That's what I'm understanding. 494 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,480 So perfect. Yes. 495 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,920 So smoothness is what we always respect the most. 496 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:49,480 So the smooth transition from to to toe is what we always focus 497 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,080 on. That's the best, the first 498 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,160 priority we want to achieve with us here. 499 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,720 So yeah, that transition streamline is, yeah, we really 500 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,520 focus on when we developed shoe. I think now would be a good time 501 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,200 to talk about the composition of your plates. 502 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,720 So a lot of your plates are nylon based. 503 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:11,960 I know the Rebellion Pro two has a carbon infused nylon plate and 504 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,160 I think a lot of runners have this misconception that carbon 505 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:17,600 is always better. It's not. 506 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:22,960 So can you talk to why you choose nylon for many of your 507 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,160 shoes as opposed to a full carbon plate that's seen in 508 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,520 other brands? Yeah. 509 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,440 What do you consider about the freight, especially for the 510 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,040 carbon? So we have two choice, Yeah. 511 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:42,320 So 100% pure carbon or nylon, best carbon infused, Yeah. 512 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,960 And we choose the right one. Yeah. 513 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:51,040 So because it allows us to make more flexible design. 514 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,400 Yeah. So if we choose 100 percent, 515 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,880 100% of carbon, the shape should be very simple. 516 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:04,360 So that means we cannot make this kind of detail 517 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,320 construction. Yeah. 518 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:12,440 For example, the two dimension is only allow to make the plate 519 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:17,920 with 100 percent 100% carbon plate, but we can make this kind 520 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:26,440 of wing shape on the middle foot or WAVY shape on this side and 521 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,520 also this side. So this kind of 3D shape. 522 00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:35,920 So we can make with the nylon based carbon infused version so 523 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,639 and the Lebanon Pro. So with this bottom so geometry 524 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,239 so all of the run they can feel the acoustic additional pop on 525 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:50,120 the middle the mid foot. So that means we need acoustic 526 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,639 stability on the mid foot. So that is the reason why we 527 00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:56,840 have the wing shape on the mid foot. 528 00:34:57,720 --> 00:35:00,920 But if we choose 100% can operate. 529 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,880 So we cannot make this shape in this area. 530 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:11,520 So this we choose the 3D shape more than 100% carbon material. 531 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:16,720 That is the reason why we always use the nylon berries and the 532 00:35:16,720 --> 00:35:20,560 carbon infuse or nylon berries, glass forever infuse, that kind 533 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,440 of things. Yeah, that is a probably the 534 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,400 difference between yeah, other competitors in the market. 535 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,160 That's what happens when you have 25 plus years of experience 536 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:36,280 with plates, yeah. So thinking about the kind of 537 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,880 the two lines you have now, so you've got the Neo Vista, you've 538 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:44,120 got the Wave Rebellion Pro, the Wave Rebellion Flash two, and 539 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:48,360 then you've got your classic shoes like the Wave Rider, the 540 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,520 Wave Horizon. How do you see those two very 541 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,840 different lines of shoes fitting into your line up in the future? 542 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:01,400 Are we going to see the like your more classic 12mm drop 543 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,760 shoes becoming more similar to the Wave Rebellion and the Neo 544 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,480 Vista, or you're going to kind of maintain these two different 545 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,920 design lines? Yeah, very good question for us 546 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:22,200 now, Yeah, actually basically we keep boss in the future, yeah as 547 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:29,240 well that that the reason why we could aid it the new line even 548 00:36:29,240 --> 00:36:34,920 we have the business driver like where Lia was carved on his part 549 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,480 on the Verizon. The reason why we started a new 550 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,880 line is definitely transform Mizuno Running. 551 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:50,480 Yeah, we, we feel for the some people in the market site. 552 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:56,280 Mizuno running was a little bit quiet for the past several 553 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,800 years. So the competitors are launching 554 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,480 tons of super shoes in the market that Mizuno is always 555 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:07,960 just having daily training and especially in the US market and 556 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,040 we are not satisfied with that situation. 557 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:15,240 And now is a chance to change consumer perception to the 558 00:37:15,240 --> 00:37:18,760 brand. And so with our technology and 559 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:23,800 innovation, so we can link the new experience to the runners, 560 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:29,840 then we can we needed to make the new line to change consumer 561 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,280 perception and the two blink new running sensation to run this. 562 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,040 Then we studied very aggressive issues. 563 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:41,160 This is the first prototype of our new line collection. 564 00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:45,960 Then extend that to the raise the option and the training 565 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,680 option. And we keep this new line as a 566 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,040 new line, OK. Then on the other hand, so we 567 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,640 can bring that some of the technology in this new line and 568 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,440 the design philosophy to the current daily trends line. 569 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:07,960 So in next few week or next few months, you will be able to see 570 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:12,960 our new basic collection with the updated material and a new 571 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:14,760 design philosophy. Yeah. 572 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:19,920 So making new, trying to the new thing with a new line and 573 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,040 bringing that technology and design to the standard line is 574 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:27,680 what we want to do. And this year and yeah, next few 575 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,040 years in the future, this is a big project in New Zealand 576 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,320 running globally. I bet and that's it's going to 577 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,680 be very exciting to see how you bring this new technology to 578 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,800 your older, you know, more classic models. 579 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,360 So that'll be exciting to see. I'm going to ask a really geeky 580 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,480 question. Many of the listeners probably 581 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,120 do not know about this, but I have been watching these shoes 582 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:52,960 for years. So the shoes like the the the 583 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,000 Mizuno Wave Emperor, for example, which I've known about 584 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,920 for years and a lot of the US customers don't know about that. 585 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,160 Is that shoe going to evolve or will that continue kind of as 586 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:07,080 traditionally as it has been? I don't know what you could say. 587 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:11,880 Oh. Yeah, yes, we will keep the 588 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:18,120 emperor because now that shoe is used for fast walking. 589 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:23,600 I don't know how to say. And Yeah, and you know, but you 590 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,680 know, WA from World Athletics rules has changed. 591 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,840 So you know, we have to follow their regulations. 592 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:37,120 So so we need a like a thin shoe as well. 593 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:41,000 But the you know, the market requirement has been changing. 594 00:39:41,240 --> 00:39:46,160 So we made some adjustment. But we still respect every thin 595 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:50,200 shoes and we keep having it. So if you want to shoot, we are 596 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,440 here, yeah. Not a large population that 597 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,400 yeah, the field athletes still need that kind of thin shoes for 598 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,920 the stereotypes of training. Let's check the under foot 599 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:06,840 sensation. So when we use the sink missile 600 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,120 running shoes, it's very fortress. 601 00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:13,400 But on the other hand the feeling the under foot sensation 602 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:17,440 is a really difficult. Yeah, the four, some athletes 603 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,920 literally need to know what is happening with the day and the 604 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,800 food. So then some of the training 605 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:29,040 they want to use the sensor, Yeah, product. 606 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:34,200 So we will keep that product for, but that will not be the 607 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,360 mainstream. I I totally understand. 608 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,960 And Chris, I'm really sorry if you suddenly get a bunch of asks 609 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:43,360 for the emperor in the United States. 610 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:47,960 I'm sorry. I just, I get it. 611 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,480 So. Blame that, all right. 612 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,040 I'll, I'll, I'll quiet down those questions. 613 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,520 So we realize that you can't probably can't talk. 614 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:02,320 We realize you can't talk too much into specifics about the 615 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,680 lineup in the next few years, but where do you think Super 616 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:07,800 shoes are going? Do you think it's going to be 617 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,240 more changes in shoe geometry like what you've done with the 618 00:41:11,240 --> 00:41:14,080 Wave Rebellion Pro? Do you think it's going to be 619 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:17,240 continued changes to foam? Is it going to be a little bit 620 00:41:17,240 --> 00:41:18,840 of both? Where do you see? 621 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,920 There's our our special guest here. 622 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:33,920 The feature of special shoes? Yeah, everyone has probably a 623 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,960 different opinion, but my personal opinion is, yeah, still 624 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:43,800 this lavatory life cycle of super shoes will be continued in 625 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,360 the few next years. So everyone, every single brand 626 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:53,280 is very keen to create new form, a new plate, the new geometry. 627 00:41:53,920 --> 00:42:00,240 So, yeah, everything will be evolved in the next few years 628 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:06,560 and probably it will be more lighter weight and yeah, more 629 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,560 responsiveness, more responsive and a more softer side. 630 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,720 Every single feature of the Super shows will be yeah, 631 00:42:12,720 --> 00:42:20,400 evolved that we need to be the export of bottom saw geometry. 632 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:26,680 Yeah, the probably not so many competitors are yeah focusing on 633 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:31,040 the importance of geometry that is the opportunity for us I 634 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:38,520 think so the full as a front runner of the geometry expert. 635 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:45,000 So we will continue to see how what is the best smoothness for 636 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:49,720 the speed awareness and when we update the material as a 637 00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:52,600 feature. So the bottom store geometry 638 00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:55,320 should be arranged for that features. 639 00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:01,640 So if we can make more responsive missile material or 640 00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,160 softer missile material, so we need to arrange the both of 641 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,520 those geometry to fit to that missile material. 642 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:14,040 So that kind of very steady update we need to do for the 643 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,960 Super show performance in the next few years. 644 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,920 Yeah, that's probably yeah. Most of the people have 645 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:25,360 different opinion in the market. So everyone has a yeah, personal 646 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,680 opinion. Chris, how do you think about 647 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:32,200 the future of silver Shoes? Do you have any opinion? 648 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,400 I, I think, I think it's going to continue to evolve. 649 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,600 I think everyone's going to race to find the lightest, most 650 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:44,640 responsive blend of material or foam that they can. 651 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,920 I do think one of the things that I love about what Shinske 652 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:52,080 and and Susan do is they don't rush to market with something 653 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:53,920 just because it's happening right now. 654 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:57,480 And I think you see the results of that of a, of an EBA based 655 00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,120 midsole foam that literally every reviewer almost to the 656 00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,080 person has said this is some sort of Piba, this is some sort 657 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,560 of some sort of nitrogen infused. 658 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,880 And it and it, we haven't corrected anyone yet because 659 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:10,360 it's been so fun to watch it happen. 660 00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:14,080 But but this is what the brilliance of what our team does 661 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,880 like they, they're constantly looking at what's next and then 662 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,880 how to bring it to life. And I think, I think the secret 663 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,160 sauce of what our team does differently and better than 664 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:26,840 everyone else is this foot angle science and geometry that no one 665 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,360 else is talking about. They're talking about stack 666 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,760 heights and midsole widths and trying to get a light foam, 667 00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:33,480 which is great, right, to a degree. 668 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,800 But the feeling we're getting from the market is too soft can 669 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,520 be too soft and too high can be too high. 670 00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:45,200 And so our team has taken more time than ever, right? 671 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,520 We just talked about how long they took to to develop the 672 00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:51,320 Vista midsole material based off of what was happening with the 673 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,200 Rebellion series. And here and here we are right 674 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,760 with this revolutionary, revolutionary EBA, right? 675 00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:59,880 Which no one would have thought could have happened, but, but 676 00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:02,120 that's what we do, right? And that's what we bring to the 677 00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:06,000 table geometry, wave plates, midsole materials, all the 678 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:07,800 stuff. And it really has to be a 679 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:11,280 combination of all those things. But the thing that they do best 680 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,600 is they know exactly what the needs of the runner are. 681 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:16,760 And then they build the product to that. 682 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,280 And then when you put it on the foot like we've done with Vista 683 00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,200 over the past 30 days, the reaction's been nothing short of 684 00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,520 phenomenal, right? But that's because they know 685 00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:26,520 exactly what they're building and who it's for. 686 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,800 And they can almost predict what the reaction will be based on 687 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,880 the ingredients they put together and the recipe they 688 00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:33,800 build based on the, the need of that runner. 689 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:35,480 So that was a lot of words there. 690 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,240 But what they do is really amazing because it isn't Matt, 691 00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:40,880 you said it earlier, it isn't just foam, it isn't just 692 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:45,200 geometry, it isn't just plates. It's all that together with the, 693 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:49,120 the special sauce that that only Mizuno brings to it, with the, 694 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,000 the science behind it. And, and then you have the 695 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:52,600 results you have that you're starting to see. 696 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:54,000 And Andrew, you've seen it this year, right? 697 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,960 Our shoes were we're OK for a long time, but this year we've 698 00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,320 had these breakthrough moments with people running in our shoes 699 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,840 going, holy cow, I can't believe this is a Mizuno. 700 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,400 And, and the reaction has been, it's been fun for us to watch, 701 00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:06,920 right? The business will follow, but we 702 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,960 love putting runners in the right shoe so they can have a 703 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,360 great experience under foot. And and we stands for smoothness 704 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,600 in everything we build. And, and you're starting to see 705 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,600 it and you'll see is as Shinske and Susan update models over the 706 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:21,440 next year and a half. It's gonna be it's gonna be a 707 00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:23,920 fun ride. So if there's no further 708 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:25,600 questions, we are gonna land this. 709 00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,160 So we really appreciate all of you coming on. 710 00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:30,560 I echo Shinske. Chris, thank you so much for 711 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:34,000 your time. You can find all of them, I'm 712 00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,440 sure on various forms of LinkedIn. 713 00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,600 But for if you want to find us, this will be available in all of 714 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,240 the normal forms, be it Spotify, be it iTunes. 715 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,720 You will also have this on YouTube as well for those who 716 00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:47,320 want to see this, for those of you who are listening because 717 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,600 you can always watch my great facial expressions because I'm 718 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:51,640 always, and then you can see Isabella as well. 719 00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,320 But as always, you can also find our other content. 720 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,120 We are always putting additional stuff up there, be it Instagram, 721 00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:57,960 be it Facebook.