1 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:11,720 Hello everyone. Welcome to the Doctors Running 2 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,360 Podcast where we, a group of doctors, physical therapy, 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:16,440 discuss the art and science of running and the stuff that we 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,600 put on our feet. Tonight we are doing our October 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,320 mailbag episode. It's Doctor David Salas and I'll 6 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,000 be hosting. I'm Nathan Brown, really excited 7 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:26,440 to be going through your questions. 8 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:28,800 You've come out with a lot of great ones and we hope that we 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,700 can address them and discuss them both from our clinical 10 00:00:31,700 --> 00:00:33,900 background, our personal background with running and our 11 00:00:33,900 --> 00:00:35,740 background as coaches and other things like that. 12 00:00:35,740 --> 00:00:38,700 So before we do that though, today, the day that we're 13 00:00:38,700 --> 00:00:43,380 recording is the evening of the Chicago Marathon where Kelvin 14 00:00:43,380 --> 00:00:47,220 Kip Doom just broke the world record marathon in two hours and 15 00:00:47,220 --> 00:00:50,180 35 at the time of two hours and 35 seconds. 16 00:00:50,480 --> 00:00:53,320 Just an incredible effort. I wasn't able to watch live. 17 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,520 I was working a local event where I was doing like post race 18 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,120 kind of massages and stuff with runners and just meeting and a 19 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,520 bunch of runners and it was our local half marathon. 20 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,160 So I got to hang out with all like basically all my friends. 21 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,720 There's like 600 runners and I know many of them and it's super 22 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:10,000 fun. So it's just fun to cheer people 23 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,650 on, but in the midst of that, this world record goes down. 24 00:01:13,650 --> 00:01:16,930 Just an incredible effort on a perfectly perfect weather day. 25 00:01:16,930 --> 00:01:19,370 It was gorgeous, but do you have any thoughts about about it? 26 00:01:19,370 --> 00:01:22,490 Like any reflections and watching him or or anything like 27 00:01:22,490 --> 00:01:25,250 that. I just, I have one thought. 28 00:01:25,410 --> 00:01:27,730 I don't want to put any disrespect on Stefan Assan's 29 00:01:27,730 --> 00:01:31,490 name either. If she had a ran two Oh my gosh 30 00:01:31,530 --> 00:01:35,170 ago, that would have been a world record as well, 100% yes. 31 00:01:35,850 --> 00:01:38,810 Like she ran 2/13, she killed it. 32 00:01:39,460 --> 00:01:42,820 She was incredible. No disrespect on Stefana, son. 33 00:01:42,820 --> 00:01:45,620 That was phenomenal. Think about how versatile she is 34 00:01:45,620 --> 00:01:47,700 right now. I mean, I was just having this 35 00:01:47,700 --> 00:01:51,180 conversation with someone earlier today and this could be, 36 00:01:51,180 --> 00:01:56,420 I don't know, by sell later on, but of who is the best woman 37 00:01:56,420 --> 00:01:59,420 runner right now? 1500 Let's save it for buy or 38 00:01:59,420 --> 00:02:03,040 sell, but that's a really great question. 39 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,600 Yeah, 'cause some people wouldn't say Stefan and I I 40 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,160 think it's a fair argument. I would probably personally say 41 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,720 Stefan, but I gotta, I gotta go back and look at it there. 42 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:13,520 There's arguments for both there. 43 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:15,720 There's probably three women I could think of off the top my 44 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,880 head that could all be running for that same thing. 4/4 women 45 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,800 right now that could probably, Yeah, women's running. 46 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:23,480 Super exciting. They're in a They're in a cool 47 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,360 part. Like, yeah, there's cool time of 48 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:28,840 history for women's assistant running right now. 49 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,100 It's pretty cool, so super fun to. 50 00:02:32,100 --> 00:02:33,980 Watch him, crushed it. He negative split it, right? 51 00:02:33,980 --> 00:02:35,980 I think so. That's great. 52 00:02:35,980 --> 00:02:38,740 I didn't get to watch live, so I I wasn't in on the. 53 00:02:39,020 --> 00:02:40,300 Details. Yeah, I couldn't either. 54 00:02:40,300 --> 00:02:43,380 I was watching Shout Out Sidious Mag because they had these like 55 00:02:43,380 --> 00:02:45,740 live reaction YouTube video things gone. 56 00:02:46,580 --> 00:02:48,820 And so, like, I mean, they're just kicking back, kind of 57 00:02:48,820 --> 00:02:51,420 commentating on what they're seeing, you know? 58 00:02:51,420 --> 00:02:53,740 So you're not seeing the runners, you're watching them. 59 00:02:54,470 --> 00:02:57,310 But it was good. I mean, I was able to kind of 60 00:02:57,310 --> 00:02:59,190 stay in the loop and see what was going on. 61 00:02:59,190 --> 00:03:02,150 And as people were finishing, you know, they're like, oh, 62 00:03:02,150 --> 00:03:03,870 Clayton Young. He might get the Olympic 63 00:03:03,870 --> 00:03:06,230 standard, you know, It's like, oh, crap, okay, cool. 64 00:03:06,590 --> 00:03:08,030 Like, so just kind of following that. 65 00:03:08,030 --> 00:03:10,670 And then I followed that until a little after Safan, I think 66 00:03:10,670 --> 00:03:13,070 right before Sisson finished. I had to go for my long run. 67 00:03:13,070 --> 00:03:16,660 So yeah, just what a, what a crazy race. 68 00:03:16,660 --> 00:03:18,860 Because, you know, look, you look at a couple years ago or 69 00:03:18,860 --> 00:03:22,180 even last year, the weather in Chicago could either be 85 and 70 00:03:22,180 --> 00:03:26,300 killer or it could be what you had today and you get to see 71 00:03:26,300 --> 00:03:29,540 people run on a flat course and have a ton of fun and break 72 00:03:29,540 --> 00:03:31,140 world records and. Totally. 73 00:03:31,140 --> 00:03:33,620 You see some of the finishing videos of Molly Seidel coming 74 00:03:33,620 --> 00:03:38,540 in, yes. She's just like, yeah, like that 75 00:03:38,540 --> 00:03:42,600 was awesome. And I've I ran Chicago in 2017 76 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,000 and it was one of those years where by the time I was at mile 77 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:50,360 15, it was 85 and I was dying. And I I cramped up like calves, 78 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:54,280 both calves, both quads and both hamstrings, all cramped at one 79 00:03:54,280 --> 00:04:01,280 point between mile 16 and 26. So yeah, but it was such a it's 80 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:05,560 so cool to see runners continue to push the envelope and man 2 81 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,520 hours and 35 seconds. Pretty incredible. 82 00:04:07,910 --> 00:04:11,830 And that's almost what Kip Choge ran in the first sub two attempt 83 00:04:11,830 --> 00:04:15,790 'cause I think it was 2 hours and 26 seconds or two hours and 84 00:04:15,790 --> 00:04:19,310 24 seconds or 25. So it's pretty incredible that 85 00:04:19,310 --> 00:04:21,430 that's what someone was able to throw down today. 86 00:04:21,430 --> 00:04:24,870 Not just someone Calvin Kiptoom. So we had we just I feel like we 87 00:04:24,870 --> 00:04:26,990 had to acknowledge it and acknowledge that it wasn't in 88 00:04:26,990 --> 00:04:30,870 the $500 Adhed issue I. Mean. 89 00:04:30,950 --> 00:04:33,310 Who knows what they're going to retell the Alpha fly 3/4? 90 00:04:33,310 --> 00:04:36,110 I mean, that was on both of their feet between Kiptoom and 91 00:04:36,110 --> 00:04:43,040 Hassan, so right. At Berlin, it'll be fun to fun 92 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:47,480 to test that out when the time comes, but let's get into the 93 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,040 real episode for today. As always, when we do our 94 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,520 mailbag episode, our subjective of the day is what questions do 95 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:55,960 you have for us? And we as you'll find out, we 96 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,600 continue to try and put them into our future mailbag 97 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:00,800 episodes. So feel free to drop a comment 98 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,700 or send us an e-mail at doctorsofrunning@gmail.com to be 99 00:05:04,700 --> 00:05:07,820 able to leave us a question that we could address at a future 100 00:05:08,020 --> 00:05:10,100 mailbag. So we're going to kick it off 101 00:05:10,100 --> 00:05:13,460 here with our first question. This is from Aaron and he says 102 00:05:13,460 --> 00:05:14,940 this. Here's a question I've been 103 00:05:14,940 --> 00:05:16,460 thinking about for a while. It would be great to hear your 104 00:05:16,460 --> 00:05:18,620 thoughts. Do you think that the trainers 105 00:05:18,620 --> 00:05:22,260 that we use, like daily trainers, give us an indication 106 00:05:22,260 --> 00:05:25,820 of which race day super shoes will work best for each person? 107 00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:29,200 So he kind of goes on to ask a lot of questions, making some 108 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,760 comparisons like if the Boston 12 works well in training, does 109 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,280 that mean the Audios Pro 3 would do be a good choice, Endorphin 110 00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:39,320 elite or endorphin pro if you're enjoying the speed, that kind of 111 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,000 comparison and he's trying to make some choices, but we'll go 112 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:43,560 into that later. But first, what do you think 113 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:47,120 about that initial question about if the type of trainer you 114 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,760 like indicates what might be the best super shoe for you? 115 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:51,640 Yeah. I think that's a great question, 116 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,160 Aaron. When I look at shoe lineups. 117 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,240 It's I hate to give this answer because we always give this 118 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,440 answer, but it depends. I think if you take a look at 119 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,720 like a shoe lineup within a given company, there are some 120 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,920 shoes that are meant to be training companions to some of 121 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,280 those racing models. With that said, like. 122 00:06:14,870 --> 00:06:17,790 I remember I read over all these questions too before the show. 123 00:06:17,790 --> 00:06:20,030 I don't have it in front of me, but he had brought up the ASICS 124 00:06:20,030 --> 00:06:22,670 Nova Blast at one point, right? Or was that someone else? 125 00:06:22,670 --> 00:06:25,670 Yeah, he he currently uses the Nova Blast for daily miles, 126 00:06:25,670 --> 00:06:27,830 Boston 12 for tempo and long days. 127 00:06:27,950 --> 00:06:30,150 Yeah, and like. And he's previously enjoyed the 128 00:06:30,190 --> 00:06:32,910 endorphin speed, too. Yeah, just different shoes. 129 00:06:32,910 --> 00:06:37,070 I feel like when I think you have to look at the lineup 130 00:06:37,070 --> 00:06:40,630 design structure and what they're going for because the 131 00:06:40,630 --> 00:06:45,210 Nova Blast is kind of like. Is kind of light, bouncy fun. 132 00:06:45,570 --> 00:06:47,690 I don't know it's a daily trainer, but you can kind of 133 00:06:47,690 --> 00:06:50,450 turn it up a little bit. I feel like the closest thing 134 00:06:50,450 --> 00:06:53,770 for the Nova Blast probably is the Super Blast, like when you 135 00:06:53,770 --> 00:06:57,250 look at geometry and things. I don't feel like the Edge Plus 136 00:06:57,250 --> 00:07:00,490 and Meta Speed Sky Plus really complement the Nova Blast that 137 00:07:00,490 --> 00:07:04,730 well, but definitely not the definitely not the Sky that just 138 00:07:04,730 --> 00:07:07,490 has such a different geometry. I haven't ran in the Edge, but 139 00:07:07,490 --> 00:07:09,130 that one would be probably closer. 140 00:07:10,490 --> 00:07:13,050 Even that one, like, you know how they have that crash pad in 141 00:07:13,050 --> 00:07:15,690 the forefoot and the heel and then it kind of has that kind of 142 00:07:15,690 --> 00:07:19,850 give and bounce to it and the way the geometry is with that 143 00:07:19,850 --> 00:07:23,770 sharp heel and then kind of like gradually rounded forfeit like 144 00:07:23,770 --> 00:07:27,210 the edge Plus definitely doesn't have as much of that. 145 00:07:27,210 --> 00:07:32,010 It feels more like a flat. I mean, definitely has like the 146 00:07:32,010 --> 00:07:34,290 stiff plate and there's a little bit of a sharper toe spring, 147 00:07:34,290 --> 00:07:36,810 but. I like if I'm looking at 148 00:07:36,810 --> 00:07:39,090 Novoblast, I'm probably looking at Superblast, like if you're 149 00:07:39,090 --> 00:07:41,210 going to compare it. But like you look at the designs 150 00:07:41,210 --> 00:07:45,770 and even in just the names like that makes sense sequentially. 151 00:07:46,450 --> 00:07:50,290 When you look at the Adidas lineup in the ADI 0 lineup, I 152 00:07:50,290 --> 00:07:52,130 think about how those uppers fit. 153 00:07:52,130 --> 00:07:53,930 I think about the geometry of the shoes. 154 00:07:54,330 --> 00:07:59,490 That ADI 0 lineup is pretty close between the Boston the 155 00:07:59,530 --> 00:08:04,090 audios, the Audios Pro and the Takumi Sen 9. 156 00:08:04,650 --> 00:08:08,010 I don't know why on earth I had problems with the Audios Pro 3, 157 00:08:08,010 --> 00:08:10,250 but I love all three of those other shoes. 158 00:08:10,610 --> 00:08:13,530 I'm the only person was upper digging in right like the upper 159 00:08:13,650 --> 00:08:16,090 was like killing. The lateral side of my foot and 160 00:08:16,090 --> 00:08:19,770 I don't but and I I got that a tiny bit in the Boston but it 161 00:08:19,770 --> 00:08:22,770 didn't hurt me and I can go run 20 miles in that shoe. 162 00:08:22,770 --> 00:08:25,730 I have run 20 miles in that shoe and be fine. 163 00:08:25,730 --> 00:08:28,930 But like Audios Pro 3, for whatever reason I couldn't run 164 00:08:28,930 --> 00:08:33,289 more than like 5 without my foot hurting and so it just was a no 165 00:08:33,289 --> 00:08:36,049 go from the beginning. I honestly don't know. 166 00:08:36,049 --> 00:08:37,490 I don't know if my pair was defective. 167 00:08:37,490 --> 00:08:39,490 If Adidas, if you're listening to that and you want to send me 168 00:08:39,490 --> 00:08:42,330 another one, feel free. I would love another pair to try 169 00:08:42,330 --> 00:08:45,690 it out. Because I love that Takumi send 170 00:08:45,690 --> 00:08:47,930 fit. I love the audio say fit like, 171 00:08:48,210 --> 00:08:50,050 but they're all similar. Like they kind of have that 172 00:08:50,050 --> 00:08:52,570 narrow kind of heel. They have that kind of like 173 00:08:52,570 --> 00:08:55,130 pitch laterally coming in from the seams and then they kind of 174 00:08:55,130 --> 00:08:58,370 have that like widened out forefoot and the relative 175 00:08:58,370 --> 00:09:00,410 feeling forefoot. Yeah, like. 176 00:09:00,990 --> 00:09:04,430 It's pretty similar, so I feel like that's a pretty good line 177 00:09:04,430 --> 00:09:07,670 of reasoning. And as far as the geometry and 178 00:09:07,670 --> 00:09:10,590 transitions, I didn't dislike my transitions in the Audio's Pro 179 00:09:10,590 --> 00:09:13,110 3. I feel like it lines up pretty 180 00:09:13,110 --> 00:09:15,070 well. But I think you just have to 181 00:09:15,070 --> 00:09:17,190 kind of look at the overall design of the shoe. 182 00:09:17,190 --> 00:09:21,310 Like it used to be very cut and dry, like endorphin Speed 3 and 183 00:09:21,310 --> 00:09:23,830 endorphin. Endorphin Speed 2 and Endorphin 184 00:09:23,830 --> 00:09:28,270 Pro Two were very similar. Now that's changed a little bit. 185 00:09:28,940 --> 00:09:33,140 With that said, I still feel like the general feel for most 186 00:09:33,140 --> 00:09:35,220 of these companies is designed in that way. 187 00:09:35,540 --> 00:09:39,340 And if they have a given training companion for whatever 188 00:09:39,340 --> 00:09:42,740 their super shoe is, then it's probably a pretty close match. 189 00:09:43,700 --> 00:09:46,980 Yeah, I but I I wouldn't say like if you're training in a 190 00:09:46,980 --> 00:09:50,140 Nimbus, that means the Edge Plus is going to work for you. 191 00:09:50,900 --> 00:09:55,380 I wouldn't say right And I wouldn't say like, let's say. 192 00:09:56,620 --> 00:09:59,420 If you're running in a Mizuno Wave Rider, the Wave Rebellion 193 00:09:59,420 --> 00:10:03,260 Pro, like I don't, I don't think it crosses over in that way at 194 00:10:03,260 --> 00:10:05,500 all. So I think you have to look at 195 00:10:05,500 --> 00:10:08,940 like what the next shoe is on that lineup and then take a 196 00:10:08,940 --> 00:10:11,220 quick look at them. And I feel like most of those 197 00:10:11,220 --> 00:10:14,220 companies are doing a pretty good job of matching, like, hey, 198 00:10:14,220 --> 00:10:16,540 this is our workout shoe. You could probably get a little 199 00:10:16,540 --> 00:10:20,540 bit more like durability and mileage training out of this one 200 00:10:20,540 --> 00:10:22,220 and then this is your race day shoe. 201 00:10:22,820 --> 00:10:25,940 Because that is kind of the case for a decent chunk of the 202 00:10:25,940 --> 00:10:32,860 companies right now. But I wouldn't dive in and say, 203 00:10:32,860 --> 00:10:35,380 Oh yes, because it's this company and that's still the 204 00:10:35,380 --> 00:10:36,740 same company. It's going to work. 205 00:10:36,780 --> 00:10:38,900 Yep. I think you hit a really good 206 00:10:38,900 --> 00:10:40,940 point where there's a difference between the shoes that are 207 00:10:40,940 --> 00:10:45,340 clearly designed in a singular line within a company like the 208 00:10:45,340 --> 00:10:48,820 Boston to the Pro, like they're all within the odd zero line of 209 00:10:48,820 --> 00:10:53,830 the Adidas models. Whereas like you mentioned the 210 00:10:54,030 --> 00:10:58,870 Nimbus 25 that's not in the same line as these, the design of 211 00:10:58,870 --> 00:11:01,390 their super shoes. So I think that does that does 212 00:11:01,390 --> 00:11:03,950 make an impact. When I first read this question, 213 00:11:03,950 --> 00:11:06,630 one of the first things that came to my head was the question 214 00:11:06,630 --> 00:11:08,870 of what is best mean. You know what are we defining 215 00:11:08,870 --> 00:11:12,470 best as Does best mean the shoe that's going to give me the best 216 00:11:12,470 --> 00:11:16,630 running economy improvement compared to like a trainer or a 217 00:11:16,630 --> 00:11:19,630 regular racing flat or does best mean like the one that's going 218 00:11:19,630 --> 00:11:21,430 to be most similar in terms of comfort? 219 00:11:21,430 --> 00:11:24,590 I just kind of I think that does change maybe your answer a 220 00:11:24,590 --> 00:11:27,430 little bit as well. But in general I think I agree 221 00:11:27,430 --> 00:11:30,230 with you and think there's a couple categories to consider. 222 00:11:30,870 --> 00:11:32,990 One of them is what's the foam like? 223 00:11:32,990 --> 00:11:36,750 What's the foam feel under foot? And then two, what is the 224 00:11:36,750 --> 00:11:40,750 geometry? And three, what is the upper fit 225 00:11:40,750 --> 00:11:44,270 for you and and so if you are running in something that is 226 00:11:44,270 --> 00:11:49,090 super, you know like a very non exciting Eva and I don't mean 227 00:11:49,090 --> 00:11:51,450 that in a bad way, but just a, you know, I think of the Phantom 228 00:11:51,450 --> 00:11:53,130 3, right. So like something that's just a 229 00:11:53,130 --> 00:11:56,290 super flat Eva that might point you in a different direction 230 00:11:56,290 --> 00:11:59,330 that if you're used to running in like the endorphin speed, 231 00:11:59,410 --> 00:12:03,450 like if you know you like the feel of power run PB the type of 232 00:12:03,450 --> 00:12:05,810 foam that you could put under your foot might match up really 233 00:12:05,810 --> 00:12:09,690 well with another you know super shoe that has a similar foam 234 00:12:09,690 --> 00:12:12,370 feel. Similarly, if you like something 235 00:12:12,370 --> 00:12:16,200 with that runs with that higher drop feel, you might like 236 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,880 something that isn't going to give you that negative drop. 237 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,400 If you are a rear foot striker like me or like when I run in 238 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:29,160 the Rocket X2 or if I run in the Meta speed sky, I feel like I'm 239 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:33,000 just falling into the heel. And so if you know that you 240 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,520 don't prefer kind of that lower drop feel, you can find shoes 241 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:38,680 that even in. But I think it's unique because 242 00:12:38,680 --> 00:12:41,080 it's not just drop, but it's the way that the foam compresses, 243 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:45,640 because you look at the SC Elite Three and that shoe has a 4 244 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:50,160 millimeter drop, but to me feels higher than the sky, which has 5 245 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:51,960 millimeters. Just really depends on the drop. 246 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,200 But I do think if you find that you really like a rocker that's 247 00:12:55,830 --> 00:12:58,990 like an early stage rocker, like you get in typical Hoka trainer, 248 00:12:59,150 --> 00:13:02,470 you'd want to find a a super shoe that has that similar 249 00:13:02,470 --> 00:13:05,470 rocker feel versus like the endorphin elite which has a late 250 00:13:05,470 --> 00:13:07,390 rocker that you just got to get up on. 251 00:13:07,390 --> 00:13:11,190 So I think that comparing your shoe in terms of the types of 252 00:13:11,190 --> 00:13:13,830 things you have, whether if it's the foam geometry and then the 253 00:13:13,830 --> 00:13:16,630 upper fit, that's what I would be looking for, at least in 254 00:13:16,630 --> 00:13:19,710 terms of comfort. Because what we don't know yet 255 00:13:19,910 --> 00:13:24,440 is what predicts somebody to respond well to a super shoe. 256 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,760 We just don't know the exact things for the running economy 257 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,000 testing that hasn't been done yet. 258 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:31,960 We haven't been able to find those predictor variables. 259 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:36,000 So it's still a little bit of a of a guessing game, but I I 260 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,400 think if you can find something that you're confident and 261 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,440 comfortable in, that's probably going to be your best bet. 262 00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:43,320 Just something that doesn't throw you too much. 263 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,000 Yeah. And I will say on a personal 264 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,880 side note, the Boston 12 is one of my favorite shoes this year. 265 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,000 And so being someone that is in a situation where like I do run 266 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,880 long runs in that shoe, the closest companion that I have 267 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:01,160 felt to the way the rocker and the transitions are probably is 268 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,440 the endorphin elite. They both have pretty late stage 269 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,840 rockers. They both kind of have this 270 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,600 gradual lean into the forefoot, then it really pops off. 271 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,880 You know, I've heard the Audios Pro 3 is very similar. 272 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,200 I just didn't get enough mileage in them, You know, like. 273 00:14:16,730 --> 00:14:18,650 It's funny, I I had this conversation with somewhere. 274 00:14:18,650 --> 00:14:19,730 I was like, Oh yeah, the endorphin Elite. 275 00:14:19,730 --> 00:14:21,490 I love that shit. And they're like, oh, what do 276 00:14:21,490 --> 00:14:23,570 you think about that in comparison to the Audios Pro 3? 277 00:14:23,570 --> 00:14:26,810 I feel like they're very similar and I was like, oh, I can't tell 278 00:14:26,810 --> 00:14:29,210 you much. I I would have drew myself from 279 00:14:29,210 --> 00:14:33,850 that one, so yeah. But yeah, I would just look at 280 00:14:33,850 --> 00:14:35,730 comfort and ultimately you just got to try them on. 281 00:14:35,730 --> 00:14:37,250 Find something that has a good return policy. 282 00:14:37,250 --> 00:14:39,810 Don't abuse the shoe, but do a little bit something to see if 283 00:14:39,810 --> 00:14:42,210 it. If it works for you and usually 284 00:14:42,210 --> 00:14:44,050 you know pretty quick if you've tried enough shoes on. 285 00:14:44,290 --> 00:14:48,170 And I think to my last, my last kind of specific example is you 286 00:14:48,170 --> 00:14:51,690 brought up the Nimbus 25 and that's a really soft compliant 287 00:14:51,890 --> 00:14:54,610 trainer that is a little bit stiffer in the forefoot just 288 00:14:54,610 --> 00:14:56,130 with how much foam is underneath there. 289 00:14:56,410 --> 00:14:59,330 So I feel like if you enjoy something that soft, I would 290 00:14:59,330 --> 00:15:02,850 actually not look at their AD or ASICS racing shoes. 291 00:15:02,850 --> 00:15:07,410 I would look at like the the New Balance SC trainer or sorry SC 292 00:15:07,410 --> 00:15:11,090 Elite version three, so much softness underneath your but so 293 00:15:11,090 --> 00:15:14,730 you'd get that similar like slight rocker really soft and so 294 00:15:14,730 --> 00:15:17,370 that's I would think more about those qualities than the 295 00:15:17,370 --> 00:15:19,330 specific lines. But I agree with you too. 296 00:15:19,330 --> 00:15:23,290 If you're training in a shoe that is designed as the training 297 00:15:23,290 --> 00:15:25,970 companion that has some of the same foam compounds that you 298 00:15:25,970 --> 00:15:30,570 love, it's probably a a pretty good guess if you're enjoying 299 00:15:30,570 --> 00:15:35,250 that one to to just bump it up. OK, so our next question is from 300 00:15:35,250 --> 00:15:38,010 Mike says hey guys, I've been scouring the Internet for a 301 00:15:38,010 --> 00:15:41,210 clear answer on this one, but so far no luck. 302 00:15:42,210 --> 00:15:45,850 And he asked with all factors being equal, would you taper 303 00:15:45,850 --> 00:15:49,050 differently for a 5K than you would for a marathon? 304 00:15:49,250 --> 00:15:51,850 Let's hypothetically say I cloned myself and we both did a 305 00:15:51,850 --> 00:15:54,410 marathon block together. Every run and every workout 306 00:15:54,410 --> 00:15:57,090 exactly the same. But one of me runs a marathon 307 00:15:57,290 --> 00:15:59,810 and the other runs a 5K on the same day. 308 00:16:00,090 --> 00:16:03,210 Do we taper differently? Yeah, I think if we're looking 309 00:16:03,210 --> 00:16:07,090 at all things equal, and this is a true like this is my race, 310 00:16:07,090 --> 00:16:10,010 this is the thing, like the thing I'm going for. 311 00:16:10,450 --> 00:16:12,330 You know, some people call it an A race. 312 00:16:14,610 --> 00:16:17,570 Everyone's a little bit different on tapers as far as 313 00:16:17,570 --> 00:16:20,570 how they respond to it personally, With that said, the 314 00:16:20,570 --> 00:16:25,130 tapers are surprisingly similar for me. 315 00:16:25,130 --> 00:16:30,250 If depending on the distances now, that workout might change. 316 00:16:30,530 --> 00:16:34,250 You know, I usually will kind of have like a shortened long run. 317 00:16:34,250 --> 00:16:37,210 Let's say the race is Saturday. If you're running a 5K, it's 318 00:16:37,210 --> 00:16:39,290 probably Saturday. If you're on the track, maybe 319 00:16:39,290 --> 00:16:42,370 5K. Or I mean Friday because a lot 320 00:16:42,370 --> 00:16:47,170 of track invites are on Fridays. So depending on what that week 321 00:16:47,170 --> 00:16:50,970 looks like, but I'm just going to assume it's a road 5K, That's 322 00:16:50,970 --> 00:16:53,930 probably a Saturday road race for the marathons, probably on a 323 00:16:53,930 --> 00:16:56,930 Sunday taper is probably going to look pretty similar. 324 00:16:56,930 --> 00:16:59,130 You're probably going to have a shortened long run on that 325 00:16:59,130 --> 00:17:01,380 Sunday. Then Monday, Tuesday is probably 326 00:17:01,380 --> 00:17:02,260 going to be a little bit lighter. 327 00:17:02,260 --> 00:17:07,700 Usually we use Wednesday to kind of sharpen up a little bit and 328 00:17:07,700 --> 00:17:11,819 that if I'm doing a marathon that might be, I don't know, 329 00:17:11,819 --> 00:17:15,900 like we'll we'll do like some ladders sometimes like a four 330 00:17:15,900 --> 00:17:20,579 8/12/16 or something. Paces are a slightly faster than 331 00:17:20,579 --> 00:17:25,579 marathon pace, You know, just making you feel good and having 332 00:17:25,579 --> 00:17:28,380 enough rest in between to just kind of feel sharp and feel just 333 00:17:28,380 --> 00:17:31,770 feel good about things. If you're running a 5K now, that 334 00:17:31,770 --> 00:17:34,410 changes the pacing on that because it wouldn't make sense 335 00:17:34,410 --> 00:17:38,450 if you're running a 5K at, let's just say 6 minute pace to go run 336 00:17:38,450 --> 00:17:43,090 730 pace on your track work or your speed work on that day. 337 00:17:43,090 --> 00:17:46,930 So usually you would go a little bit faster than your race pace 338 00:17:46,930 --> 00:17:50,210 for shorter distances, kind of sharpen up, feel good, take the 339 00:17:50,210 --> 00:17:53,090 next two days or so to kind of lighten up again, and then 340 00:17:53,090 --> 00:17:55,730 Saturday probably be a short run with some strides and some 341 00:17:55,730 --> 00:17:58,450 drills to kind of mimic that feel you'd get on Sunday. 342 00:17:59,510 --> 00:18:01,830 And I said Sunday for the road race, for the marathon, 343 00:18:02,110 --> 00:18:06,150 Saturday, Friday would be that. So it just depends on like what 344 00:18:06,150 --> 00:18:08,990 day, like what it looks like. But for the most part, the bread 345 00:18:08,990 --> 00:18:10,910 and butter of it is pretty much the same. 346 00:18:10,910 --> 00:18:14,390 Giving yourself an active rest without going completely off the 347 00:18:14,390 --> 00:18:16,030 handle. You want to still feel sharp and 348 00:18:16,030 --> 00:18:18,710 ready to to run. I think what's interesting about 349 00:18:18,710 --> 00:18:21,790 this question is it's it has the premise with all factors being 350 00:18:21,790 --> 00:18:24,070 equal. And I think the reality is, if 351 00:18:24,070 --> 00:18:26,430 you were going through a training block for a 5K, it 352 00:18:26,430 --> 00:18:29,760 would it would look qualitatively and quantitatively 353 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:31,880 different than if you're training for a marathon, 354 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:34,960 especially depending on where you're at in your running 355 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,160 journey. So my bread and butter is 356 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,200 working with runners who are newer to the sport and ones who 357 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,400 are trying to do something new for the first time. 358 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,840 So if somebody is going through their first marathon training 359 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,960 block, the amount of time that we I give them and maybe their 360 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,600 first taper is going to be a little bit longer than what we 361 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,120 might do for their 5K. And part of that's just because 362 00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:55,520 of the cumulative fatigue that they're getting of different 363 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,640 types of muscle fibers and all that kind of stuff. 364 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:02,440 So depending on who you are, you know at the beginning it's a 365 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:04,400 little bit of guesswork because like you said in the beginning 366 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,280 David, everyone responds different to taper. 367 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:11,000 And so if if it's your first time, I would probably guess 368 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:16,280 that some of the efforts and and time on your feet total would be 369 00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:20,520 pulled back a little bit more from the in the marathon taper 370 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,720 compared to the 5K. But ratio wise I bet it would 371 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,680 look pretty similar where like the amount of recovery that 372 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,320 you're trying to give your body through decreased demand, it 373 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,120 would probably be kind of similar but you would just have 374 00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:34,080 a little bit of a different total amount but the ratios 375 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:35,600 would be would be about the same. 376 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:40,550 But I think when it comes to taper, every single taper that 377 00:19:40,550 --> 00:19:43,470 you do is a learning experience and you learn how did I respond 378 00:19:43,470 --> 00:19:46,150 to a two week taper, A three-week taper, A1 week taper, 379 00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:49,350 a four day taper? You'll learn what works for you. 380 00:19:49,350 --> 00:19:51,430 I'm still learning what works best for me. 381 00:19:51,430 --> 00:19:53,510 I think I'm still trying to dial that in. 382 00:19:54,230 --> 00:19:59,070 But I I think that that's going to be a it's a personal thing 383 00:19:59,190 --> 00:20:02,150 where you're going to learn how much time and space does my body 384 00:20:02,150 --> 00:20:05,230 need to be. At its peak, so I think it is a 385 00:20:05,230 --> 00:20:06,590 tough question. It's probably good that you 386 00:20:06,590 --> 00:20:08,710 couldn't find a clear answer on the Internet, because that means 387 00:20:08,710 --> 00:20:11,910 that people aren't putting out an answer that that's 388 00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:14,910 oversimplified for this. Anything else on this one? 389 00:20:15,430 --> 00:20:17,190 No, everyone just responds differently. 390 00:20:17,230 --> 00:20:20,070 Find what works for you. Most people are going to do one 391 00:20:20,070 --> 00:20:26,190 to two weeks somewhere in that window, and ultimately you want 392 00:20:26,190 --> 00:20:28,590 to feel good on race day so that that's the ultimate goal. 393 00:20:28,590 --> 00:20:31,070 So do what you need to do to feel good on race day. 394 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,760 Some people like full days off. I don't like it. 395 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,280 It makes me a little bit groggy. I just feel a bit flat and 396 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:38,600 heavy. That's me. 397 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,600 Some people love it. So, all right, here we go. 398 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:45,960 So the next question is Laura Norton from Maryland and she 399 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,240 says, I'm a big fan of your podcast and have a question for 400 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,920 your next male back episode. I'm currently dealing with 401 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,720 bilateral proximal hamstring tendinopathy. 402 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,990 I'm curious, has running in super shoes increased the 403 00:20:56,990 --> 00:21:00,510 incidence of this injury? Are the shoes moving forces up 404 00:21:00,510 --> 00:21:03,150 the chain? I can start a little bit on on 405 00:21:03,150 --> 00:21:06,270 this one and I think it's interesting. 406 00:21:06,270 --> 00:21:11,230 I think that this trend towards. So I have a small sample size, 407 00:21:11,230 --> 00:21:12,470 right? I'm working with runners in 408 00:21:12,470 --> 00:21:15,030 central Wisconsin. I work through our running lab, 409 00:21:15,230 --> 00:21:17,630 you know, with runners all, like, that's just what I'm doing 410 00:21:17,710 --> 00:21:19,590 most of my clinic time right now. 411 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,720 But even that's a relatively small sample size because I'm 412 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,680 working with runners in central Wisconsin and not everyone 413 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:27,880 around here is running in super shoes all the time. 414 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,760 But I have been working with a lot of people with hip flexor 415 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,920 issues or anterior hip issues, as well as kind of these 416 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:40,080 proximal hamstring issues. And I've got in the last, you 417 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,080 know, six months I've worked with, you know, a handful, like 418 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,280 probably could still fit on one hand. 419 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,320 But a number of runners that have had proximal hamstring 420 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:53,220 tendinopathy in particular, and I think that super shoes are one 421 00:21:53,220 --> 00:21:56,020 more extreme example of why we might be seeing more of these 422 00:21:56,020 --> 00:21:58,260 proximal injuries. And you know, this is all 423 00:21:58,260 --> 00:22:00,500 anecdotal. We don't have new statistics yet 424 00:22:00,500 --> 00:22:03,020 on all of this stuff from like large databases. 425 00:22:03,020 --> 00:22:06,700 But I think even before the Super shoe training, we've 426 00:22:06,700 --> 00:22:09,300 worked into maximal shoes with rockers. 427 00:22:09,660 --> 00:22:11,980 And once you throw in that rocker, we do know that it 428 00:22:11,980 --> 00:22:16,100 decreases the amount of demand on the calf and ankle complex. 429 00:22:16,100 --> 00:22:18,580 But that does mean that the force has to come from somewhere 430 00:22:18,580 --> 00:22:21,540 else and often that means that it by mechanically would go up 431 00:22:21,540 --> 00:22:25,340 the chain towards the hip. So I think it's very possible 432 00:22:25,340 --> 00:22:28,380 that they're contributing to it. I also think that means that if 433 00:22:28,380 --> 00:22:31,020 you're training in highly rockered shoes and all the stiff 434 00:22:31,020 --> 00:22:34,980 stuff, stiff stuff, is that the right word? 435 00:22:35,060 --> 00:22:38,640 Yeah. Then you should be matching your 436 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,280 rehabilitation and your exercise and strengthening regiment to 437 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,160 the demands that the running's going to put on you. 438 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,960 So anecdotally, I think yes, we've seen more. 439 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,760 It's very possible that training in super shoes is even more 440 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,560 extreme than what we've been seeing over the last like 10-15 441 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,280 years when it comes to training in maximally rocker shoes. 442 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,440 Just in general, do you have anything to add to that one? 443 00:22:58,190 --> 00:22:59,630 Yeah, I think you hit it pretty well. 444 00:23:00,550 --> 00:23:05,030 And I like that you brought in just this idea of Max Cushion 445 00:23:05,030 --> 00:23:09,430 rocker training shoes as well, because when we look at the 446 00:23:09,430 --> 00:23:11,710 designs, they're awfully, quite similar, right. 447 00:23:11,710 --> 00:23:15,030 And it wasn't always with these large rocker profiles that's 448 00:23:15,030 --> 00:23:19,150 been a relatively new thing. I mean what Hoko is probably one 449 00:23:19,150 --> 00:23:23,230 of the first companies to truly kind of lean into that and that 450 00:23:23,230 --> 00:23:26,790 wasn't that long ago and so when we look at. 451 00:23:27,310 --> 00:23:32,870 Anecdotally, we don't have that much data to go off of and all 452 00:23:32,870 --> 00:23:35,230 we can really do is take a look at the shoe designs. 453 00:23:35,230 --> 00:23:38,870 What are they running in? Does that affect what we can see 454 00:23:38,870 --> 00:23:42,630 in front of us? And anecdotally speaking, if 455 00:23:42,630 --> 00:23:46,150 you're only in these high stack Rockford shoes, then I mean that 456 00:23:46,150 --> 00:23:48,590 could lead us to believe that to some degree. 457 00:23:49,110 --> 00:23:51,710 Same thing with intrinsic foot muscles and different kinds of 458 00:23:51,710 --> 00:23:54,150 stabilizing things. Just in general, but. 459 00:23:56,660 --> 00:24:02,500 It's hard to draw a specific line from the shoe to that 460 00:24:02,500 --> 00:24:05,540 because I don't know. For all I know you're running 461 00:24:05,540 --> 00:24:08,540 in, you know, like a New Balance Rebel or some. 462 00:24:08,540 --> 00:24:11,900 Well, I should just say super suits, but like something, I 463 00:24:12,540 --> 00:24:14,180 don't know. There's just so many wild cards. 464 00:24:14,180 --> 00:24:16,540 And then like, I don't know if you had a big jump in speed work 465 00:24:16,540 --> 00:24:18,260 and that's why your hamstrings are sore. 466 00:24:18,260 --> 00:24:20,780 I don't like. There's just all kinds of 467 00:24:20,780 --> 00:24:24,220 reasons why your hamstrings could be affected from training. 468 00:24:25,710 --> 00:24:29,310 And it might not just be the shoes, but with that said, 469 00:24:29,350 --> 00:24:33,070 anecdotally speaking could have some potential for it. 470 00:24:33,550 --> 00:24:36,710 Hard to say yeah. And and I totally was not 471 00:24:36,710 --> 00:24:39,430 answering this specific to her scenario that's that's a great 472 00:24:39,430 --> 00:24:41,590 thing to point out because I was just answering in general. 473 00:24:41,590 --> 00:24:42,950 Sure. Yeah, we increase loading up 474 00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:48,310 there. But yeah, for I think we we can 475 00:24:48,390 --> 00:24:54,840 over overattribute changes positive or negative to shoes 476 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,960 because it's such an easy variable to look at and control 477 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,520 and all the other ones still exist and it can be can be tough 478 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,720 to tease it out. I will say warm up better and 479 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,120 sleep more. Yeah, totally. 480 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,960 I have no idea what your warm up routine looks like. 481 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:13,160 It feels like a cheap shot, but I will say anecdotally, someone 482 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,040 who does have proximal hamstring. 483 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,240 Not to the point where it takes me out. 484 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,400 But I have it pretty recurrent and I've had it honestly over 485 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,680 the last like year or so on and off. 486 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,160 If I warm up better, I do my swings, I do my skips, I do my 487 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,200 strides. Usually goes fine, starts acting 488 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,400 up, I start sleeping a little bit more, seems to go away a 489 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:38,760 little bit better. Like, it's like play. 490 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,360 Play with the recovery, play with all the other things. 491 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,640 And that could be completely independent of shoes because 492 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,560 we're running in different shoes all of the time. 493 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,680 So for me, that kind of is an example of someone who has it 494 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,800 but isn't running in a specific shoe design all the time, right? 495 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:57,280 And I think the important thing there is the the emerging 496 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,840 evidence on proximal hamstring tendinopathy makes us feel less 497 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,480 clear about the actual pain generating source of this stuff. 498 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,310 So you know it's not necessarily that you have a an unhealthy 499 00:26:08,310 --> 00:26:11,030 tendon on a structural level. There are so many things that 500 00:26:11,030 --> 00:26:13,070 can lead to that sort of soreness right there. 501 00:26:13,270 --> 00:26:16,630 And so dealing with all of those other factors in your running 502 00:26:16,710 --> 00:26:20,910 pie of health, you know the all the different slices, working on 503 00:26:20,910 --> 00:26:22,470 those is going to be really important. 504 00:26:23,190 --> 00:26:25,990 All right, Our next question is from Jake says my name is Jake, 505 00:26:26,630 --> 00:26:28,710 I love the podcast. Been listening for a bit now. 506 00:26:28,710 --> 00:26:30,110 Got a question for consideration? 507 00:26:30,110 --> 00:26:33,430 One of your Q&A episodes for runners dealing with multiple 508 00:26:33,430 --> 00:26:35,630 injury types slash issues over time. 509 00:26:35,630 --> 00:26:38,430 Do you have any tips for consolidating strength and 510 00:26:38,430 --> 00:26:42,350 conditioning to get the most bang for the overall injury 511 00:26:42,350 --> 00:26:45,430 prevention? To elaborate, I'm good for at 512 00:26:45,430 --> 00:26:48,950 least one injury a year. Strength and strength training 513 00:26:48,950 --> 00:26:51,710 and PT have helped overcome IT. Band runners, knees, stress 514 00:26:51,710 --> 00:26:54,910 fractures at various points, but the routines needed to maintain 515 00:26:54,910 --> 00:26:57,430 them add up to a lot of time and money. 516 00:26:57,990 --> 00:27:00,350 Once I started thinking I'm good to go and back off the injury 517 00:27:00,350 --> 00:27:03,710 specific routine and save time, always well after the appointed 518 00:27:03,710 --> 00:27:05,750 time too. So he he's saying that he does 519 00:27:05,750 --> 00:27:08,350 it for a long time. Afterwards stuff will start to 520 00:27:08,350 --> 00:27:11,510 act up again and so it'll rear its head later. 521 00:27:12,150 --> 00:27:13,950 So I think he's just trying to figure out how can you 522 00:27:13,950 --> 00:27:17,990 consolidate this stuff? How can you avoid having to 523 00:27:17,990 --> 00:27:22,150 spend so much time and money to be able to see APT? 524 00:27:22,230 --> 00:27:23,990 How do you how do you kind of handle that? 525 00:27:25,070 --> 00:27:27,310 I like this part, he says. How do I how do I keep these 526 00:27:27,310 --> 00:27:29,950 issues update without paying APT to handle it every time? 527 00:27:30,270 --> 00:27:31,110 Parentheses. No. 528 00:27:31,190 --> 00:27:32,710 No offense. Worth every penny. 529 00:27:32,870 --> 00:27:35,510 But the co-pays are a killer. Absolutely they are. 530 00:27:35,670 --> 00:27:38,070 Yes, and I totally agree. Yeah. 531 00:27:38,310 --> 00:27:41,190 I always tell people I'm like, if I do my job well, that means 532 00:27:41,190 --> 00:27:44,350 you won't need me. Like, yes, I've got a weird job 533 00:27:44,350 --> 00:27:49,420 in that way. Yeah, it's a great question and 534 00:27:49,420 --> 00:27:51,500 everyone's a little bit different with this as well. 535 00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:54,860 But I feel like for the most part, most people tend to 536 00:27:54,860 --> 00:27:57,540 respond well with a pretty simple philosophy, and that's 537 00:27:57,540 --> 00:27:59,620 keep the hard days hard and the easy days easy. 538 00:28:00,420 --> 00:28:04,420 So what that basically means is, let's say you have a workout 539 00:28:04,420 --> 00:28:05,420 day. Now, it doesn't have to be 540 00:28:05,420 --> 00:28:08,420 immediately following the workout for time demands. 541 00:28:08,420 --> 00:28:12,300 Sometimes people do like to put it in that way, but you can 542 00:28:12,300 --> 00:28:15,060 still take a few hours off and then do a wait session or 543 00:28:15,060 --> 00:28:17,700 something. Later in that day, But 544 00:28:18,260 --> 00:28:21,180 anecdotally speaking, well, there's also some data showing 545 00:28:21,180 --> 00:28:24,540 it. But like if you go and you do 546 00:28:24,540 --> 00:28:28,460 like your track session or your Rd. workout session, and then 547 00:28:28,460 --> 00:28:31,340 you go into a strength and conditioning session and then, I 548 00:28:31,900 --> 00:28:34,820 don't know, 2-3 times a week and you're probably doing 2-3 549 00:28:34,820 --> 00:28:38,220 workouts a week, you know those easy days, Keep them easy. 550 00:28:38,220 --> 00:28:41,420 Those are meant to recover. You usually will have greater 551 00:28:41,420 --> 00:28:43,580 effects on your super compensation like as far as like 552 00:28:43,580 --> 00:28:46,460 what you're putting in. Recovering building essentially 553 00:28:46,460 --> 00:28:50,300 is what that means. And so as long as you're not 554 00:28:50,300 --> 00:28:53,820 burning yourself into the ground and you are recovering usually 555 00:28:53,820 --> 00:28:57,060 if you kind of follow a general principle of hard day's hard 556 00:28:57,060 --> 00:28:59,340 easy day's easy can go really well. 557 00:28:59,660 --> 00:29:03,300 Usually you have more than one easy day after those hard 558 00:29:03,300 --> 00:29:06,620 workout days, meaning from the running workout side of things. 559 00:29:06,620 --> 00:29:09,020 So some people do like to have it the next day. 560 00:29:09,850 --> 00:29:12,770 But for me personally, I do like to have it same day. 561 00:29:12,770 --> 00:29:14,410 That's always worked pretty well for me. 562 00:29:16,210 --> 00:29:18,810 That way you kind of have one big load day, get some sleep, 563 00:29:18,810 --> 00:29:22,170 have a nice couple easy days and you feel pretty good by the time 564 00:29:22,170 --> 00:29:25,810 that next day comes around. I don't like to be dipping into 565 00:29:25,810 --> 00:29:28,290 the well too much. That's just me personally as far 566 00:29:28,290 --> 00:29:30,650 as like on a constant daily basis type thing. 567 00:29:32,190 --> 00:29:35,990 I'm sure Jake, if you're listening to this, you can 568 00:29:35,990 --> 00:29:39,350 understand it's hard for us to give specific advice on, on your 569 00:29:39,350 --> 00:29:42,510 situation and how to consolidate because we don't know if you 570 00:29:42,510 --> 00:29:45,190 have a base level of like regular strength training that 571 00:29:45,190 --> 00:29:47,670 you do, right? So you said you back off of the 572 00:29:47,670 --> 00:29:50,930 like injury specific rehab you're doing, but does that mean 573 00:29:50,930 --> 00:29:52,890 that you just stop strength training all together? 574 00:29:52,890 --> 00:29:55,490 Does that mean, you know and so when it comes to bang for your 575 00:29:55,490 --> 00:29:57,610 buck, it really is going to depend on what's your starting 576 00:29:57,610 --> 00:29:59,730 point. But I think like David said, the 577 00:29:59,730 --> 00:30:02,810 having the building blocks solid at the beginning where you're 578 00:30:02,810 --> 00:30:06,730 not over over stressing your body beyond it what it can 579 00:30:06,730 --> 00:30:09,010 handle. So philosophically how I would 580 00:30:09,170 --> 00:30:11,530 approach a question like this for getting banged to your buck 581 00:30:11,930 --> 00:30:15,160 is you want to look at what are my running demands and what are 582 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,400 my physical capacities and you don't want the running demand, 583 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,920 running demand to be greater than your physical capacity. 584 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:24,840 How do you know your physical capacity? 585 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,800 That might be finding a place that you could do like a once a 586 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:32,360 year or twice a year like, you know, testing with APA running 587 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,840 PT. Who could look at you, the 588 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,200 strength, you know, from, you know, your core down through 589 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,640 your legs, take a look at everything. 590 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,760 Look at your mobility and just see right now with who you are 591 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,960 in January, what sort of deficit should you focus on for the next 592 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,480 six months And build a routine that addresses those major 593 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,240 things that you're seeing from a maybe a strength standpoint. 594 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,800 And then you could check in with them six months later and just 595 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,040 reassess or if it's quarterly or whatever, that could be one way 596 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,800 to try to get ahead of it. There's no guarantee that that 597 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,560 would work, but it could help you focus the types of training 598 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,780 that you want to do. When it comes to, if we're 599 00:31:07,780 --> 00:31:11,100 talking about doing strength training in general, I would 600 00:31:11,100 --> 00:31:15,500 want to find exercises that that get globally as much as 601 00:31:15,500 --> 00:31:17,380 possible. So some of my favorite like 602 00:31:17,380 --> 00:31:20,780 three are to do something that targets your calves, something 603 00:31:20,780 --> 00:31:24,740 that's going to target kind of like quads and it can be quads, 604 00:31:24,740 --> 00:31:27,740 hamstring glued together and then something kind of posterior 605 00:31:27,740 --> 00:31:31,070 chain specific. So you know weighted calf raises 606 00:31:31,070 --> 00:31:34,590 being one like at some kind of hex bar squat and then something 607 00:31:34,590 --> 00:31:36,310 single legs like a single leg lunge. 608 00:31:36,430 --> 00:31:39,550 So I feel like if you can pick three exercises even like that, 609 00:31:39,710 --> 00:31:41,150 I think that could be really helpful. 610 00:31:41,270 --> 00:31:44,510 We also talked about on a previous episode that study that 611 00:31:44,510 --> 00:31:48,270 just came out in the beginning of 2023 that had a a strength 612 00:31:48,270 --> 00:31:51,590 training routine that did show to decrease injury and it was I 613 00:31:51,590 --> 00:31:56,130 think three days a week where they had to do about 20 to 35 614 00:31:56,130 --> 00:31:59,050 minutes of exercise. Maybe check that out and you 615 00:31:59,050 --> 00:32:01,130 know we have a shake out about that as well. 616 00:32:01,130 --> 00:32:04,610 And I have all the exercises listed so that that would be 617 00:32:04,610 --> 00:32:06,890 another option. Is there's something there in 618 00:32:06,890 --> 00:32:09,290 the literature that worked with runner with a with a certain 619 00:32:09,290 --> 00:32:12,690 group of runners maybe start there as a building block or if 620 00:32:12,690 --> 00:32:16,890 you have APT that you trust see them prophylactically and see if 621 00:32:17,010 --> 00:32:21,330 they have some sort of service that you could do that that's 622 00:32:21,330 --> 00:32:24,250 maybe cash based that no you wouldn't be able to use your 623 00:32:24,250 --> 00:32:27,090 insurance and it wouldn't be a co-pay but it might be cheaper 624 00:32:27,090 --> 00:32:29,530 you know, I know like that's what we do is you know our cash 625 00:32:29,530 --> 00:32:32,530 based stuff is is more affordable it just doesn't go 626 00:32:32,530 --> 00:32:34,650 towards deductibles but you can't use HSA. 627 00:32:34,970 --> 00:32:37,610 So it's a complicated question and we don't have a specific 628 00:32:37,610 --> 00:32:40,410 thing, but I would just try to figure out are the demands that 629 00:32:40,410 --> 00:32:42,930 you have if you're running, are you doing too much, too fast? 630 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,320 Does it match the strength and mobility that you have in your 631 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:48,520 body? But that's a really good 632 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,440 question and hope that some of the thoughts that we had can can 633 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:56,360 help you hone in and make the best use of your time, because 634 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,840 it's not easy to. I know some of the exercises I 635 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,920 give to people early in rehab are like one muscle that you 636 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,400 work on might take or one movement that you work on might 637 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,120 take you 10 minutes and you got to do like 4 different 638 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,160 movements. So I just know it can take a 639 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,630 long take a long time. Anything else on that one? 640 00:33:12,710 --> 00:33:15,070 Yeah, I just want to say that Nathan forgot. 641 00:33:15,070 --> 00:33:16,350 Arm day. Arm day. 642 00:33:16,350 --> 00:33:20,510 Yes, I I felt like. You're going to say whole body 643 00:33:20,510 --> 00:33:23,630 and completely exclude everything from the abdominal 644 00:33:23,630 --> 00:33:26,190 region up? Well, we only run with our legs, 645 00:33:26,190 --> 00:33:28,790 so we don't we don't do anything else. 646 00:33:29,350 --> 00:33:32,590 Just some basic postural support you could throw in some bands, 647 00:33:32,590 --> 00:33:35,990 some rotate like just some basic rotation, some rows. 648 00:33:36,550 --> 00:33:39,430 Like that would still benefit you and it's quick and fast and 649 00:33:39,430 --> 00:33:42,630 that could easily be thrown into that program without having an 650 00:33:42,630 --> 00:33:44,710 entirely other day dedicated to it. 651 00:33:45,590 --> 00:33:49,750 So just kind of like prioritizing a few exercises and 652 00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:52,150 just and working on them. That's kind of how I do it. 653 00:33:52,150 --> 00:33:55,950 I mean we we work full time. You know, it's like I'll run 654 00:33:56,230 --> 00:34:00,510 sometimes Jesus, 14 miles before work, you know, And I've got a 655 00:34:00,790 --> 00:34:03,980 9:00 client, like. And then it's like you work 9 to 656 00:34:03,980 --> 00:34:06,140 whatever your lunch is and then I'm just squeezing something 657 00:34:06,140 --> 00:34:08,300 into my lunch while I'm doing notes and stuff. 658 00:34:08,300 --> 00:34:12,020 So like, I don't exactly have the perfect strength and 659 00:34:12,020 --> 00:34:14,659 conditioning routine either, but I I try to just kind of 660 00:34:14,659 --> 00:34:17,699 prioritize a couple things what I feel I need, and then I just 661 00:34:17,699 --> 00:34:19,739 kind of go to work from there. Yeah, it's great. 662 00:34:19,980 --> 00:34:22,219 Also, when I was saying that you don't need your arms, I was 663 00:34:22,699 --> 00:34:25,020 being sarcastic. No, no, he was being serious. 664 00:34:25,020 --> 00:34:28,739 Yeah, he doesn't believe in. I don't believe in arms. 665 00:34:28,739 --> 00:34:30,139 He. Doesn't believe in arms. 666 00:34:30,260 --> 00:34:34,290 He's T Rex Gang. All right, here we go. 667 00:34:34,489 --> 00:34:36,810 This is a question from Katrina said. 668 00:34:36,810 --> 00:34:39,130 I was curious what your experience has been working with 669 00:34:39,130 --> 00:34:41,850 runners who are trying to manage hip impingement syndrome 670 00:34:42,290 --> 00:34:46,170 syndrome conservatively, since the bone issue Can PT really 671 00:34:46,170 --> 00:34:49,770 help manage pain, slash symptoms long term or running make it 672 00:34:49,770 --> 00:34:52,449 worse down the line? Do you ever work with runners 673 00:34:52,449 --> 00:34:54,929 who are able to manage this injury and get back to running, 674 00:34:54,929 --> 00:34:57,810 even racing longer distances, like half in full marathons with 675 00:34:57,810 --> 00:35:00,570 PT alone? I think it's a great question. 676 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,120 When you take a look at things anatomically, oh, you have some 677 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:05,760 hip impingement stuff going on too, right? 678 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,480 Yeah, I'll talk about my. I'll talk about my experience. 679 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,560 Do you want me to go first? Sure, yeah. 680 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,360 I feel like you have the most like personal experience with 681 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,440 it. I've got this anatomical, you 682 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,160 know, theoretical way to approach it, but you you live 683 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:24,040 it, so sure, yeah. I think what what we know is, so 684 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,400 the the medical term for this is femoral acetabular impingement 685 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,000 syndrome and it can be caused by a lot of things. 686 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,840 Yeah, FAI. And so you know it sounds like 687 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,280 you've may have had imaging that's showing Bony changes. 688 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,960 I've personally had imaging through X-ray that has shown 689 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,160 Bony changes. I have what's called a Cam 690 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,760 lesion and a pincer lesion. It means that I have overgrowth 691 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,960 of both like the ball and the neck of that ball and the 692 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,960 socket, which just means that the bones come together a lot 693 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:57,880 more quickly than they do if you if you have more space 694 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:02,400 obviously. So I have pretty severe FAI when 695 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,080 it comes to the anatomical radio graphic findings. 696 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:11,320 So I went in just my story. I guess I was I I raised a 5K. 697 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:16,400 This was number of years ago now and I had some pretty intense 698 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,720 anterior hip pain and thigh pain and radiate down my thigh pretty 699 00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:23,680 intense just with like sitting. I couldn't sit at work. 700 00:36:24,630 --> 00:36:26,830 I would have to be standing. When I was working with people, 701 00:36:27,070 --> 00:36:29,350 it was pretty intense. So I ended up trying to work on 702 00:36:29,350 --> 00:36:32,430 A conservatively for about four months and it just wasn't 703 00:36:32,430 --> 00:36:36,030 getting better. I went and I saw an orthopedist 704 00:36:36,030 --> 00:36:38,510 to get another opinion. He took X-rays and I hadn't had 705 00:36:38,510 --> 00:36:41,590 any imaging up to that point. And this is where they showed me 706 00:36:41,590 --> 00:36:44,190 the kind of the changes in that Cam and pincer lesion. 707 00:36:44,510 --> 00:36:47,470 And what he said to me is I want you to get an MRI and then I'd 708 00:36:47,470 --> 00:36:49,470 love to get you scheduled for surgery next week. 709 00:36:50,380 --> 00:36:52,580 And this is a surgeon I really like, by the way. 710 00:36:52,580 --> 00:36:55,020 Like, I respect him, which made it feel all the scarier. 711 00:36:55,020 --> 00:36:59,420 And he actually said to me in the meeting, he said, So what we 712 00:36:59,420 --> 00:37:01,460 would do is I want to do a hip resurfacing. 713 00:37:01,460 --> 00:37:05,180 We call them hip preservation procedures, and we would want to 714 00:37:05,180 --> 00:37:07,900 do that so that it can preserve your hip for the long term and 715 00:37:08,100 --> 00:37:10,140 delay a hip replacement, he said. 716 00:37:10,140 --> 00:37:12,860 But if we go in there and it's bad enough, we will just do a 717 00:37:12,860 --> 00:37:15,260 hip replacement while we're in there. 718 00:37:15,830 --> 00:37:19,350 And that freaked me out because I'm at the time I was 30 years 719 00:37:19,390 --> 00:37:21,870 old or 29. I think it was 29 years old when 720 00:37:21,870 --> 00:37:25,590 I went in and talked to him. And I was, I like, my heart rate 721 00:37:25,590 --> 00:37:28,910 was just racing. I was like really thrown by that 722 00:37:28,910 --> 00:37:32,670 conversation. And it also was scary because we 723 00:37:32,670 --> 00:37:36,110 had radiographs to back up, you know what's going on. 724 00:37:36,110 --> 00:37:39,030 It's like, oh, you've got this big overgrowth of your bone. 725 00:37:39,710 --> 00:37:42,910 So I had to sit with that. I ended up not doing the MRI 726 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,880 honestly because of money. We have a huge deductible and it 727 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,640 would have cost me like $6000 and I wasn't ready to do that. 728 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,200 And I still to this day haven't haven't had surgery. 729 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,080 I did a lot of rehab. I did a lot of strengthening. 730 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,360 For me, one of the things ended up helping was a lot of mobility 731 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:08,680 and strength work of my hip adductors, my AD doctors, kind 732 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,360 of the forgotten hip muscle with all the attention that the glute 733 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,960 Mead gets and the piriformis gets, you know. 734 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:15,880 So I was working on my adductors. 735 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,480 For me that ended up being part of my puzzle that turned started 736 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,490 turning things around. But since then I have personally 737 00:38:22,490 --> 00:38:26,050 been back to racing. Since then I have ran my best 738 00:38:26,050 --> 00:38:31,370 marathon I've ever ran. I also PR Ed my 5K or sorry I PR 739 00:38:31,370 --> 00:38:35,010 Ed my MY20K after that in this over this past year or so. 740 00:38:36,330 --> 00:38:38,650 In short, yes, it's very possible. 741 00:38:38,890 --> 00:38:42,170 I think there are still question marks in terms of like what's my 742 00:38:42,170 --> 00:38:45,170 future 20 years from now look like Because the literally the 743 00:38:45,170 --> 00:38:47,920 jury is out on this. We just don't know the way I 744 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,480 like to approach it. And obviously coming from APT 745 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,440 background, I'd rather work on all of the ways that I can 746 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:57,000 improve the amount of mobility and space that I can make so 747 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:01,120 that I don't have to go through a surgery now to potentially 748 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,240 prevent one later. I just don't think, you know and 749 00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:06,720 I'd love to hear from a surgeon who maybe has some really good 750 00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:08,760 evidence on hip preservation procedures. 751 00:39:09,210 --> 00:39:11,130 But I just don't think the evidence is quite solid enough 752 00:39:11,130 --> 00:39:14,530 for me to jump in on a on a surgical option for myself right 753 00:39:14,530 --> 00:39:16,050 now. Because I was able to 754 00:39:16,050 --> 00:39:20,730 rehabilitate to the point where I can go and not have to have 755 00:39:20,730 --> 00:39:23,930 the pain afterwards like I ran that like my hip has never been 756 00:39:23,930 --> 00:39:25,410 an issue when it comes to running. 757 00:39:25,530 --> 00:39:28,610 Especially because when you go think about hip range of motion 758 00:39:28,610 --> 00:39:31,890 for long distance running, you're not necessarily pushing 759 00:39:31,890 --> 00:39:34,290 into these end ranges where you're leading to that 760 00:39:34,290 --> 00:39:38,380 impingement in the hip. And so I if you can work on your 761 00:39:38,380 --> 00:39:41,900 mechanics to avoid hip internal rotation, hip adduction, and 762 00:39:41,900 --> 00:39:44,860 keep a stable pelvis and also work on the mobility through 763 00:39:44,860 --> 00:39:48,180 your low back. And like if you can work on the 764 00:39:48,180 --> 00:39:51,500 stuff around your hip to maximize their capacity, work on 765 00:39:51,500 --> 00:39:53,980 your mechanics so that you're not dipping into those ranges 766 00:39:53,980 --> 00:39:58,100 that lead to an impingement, I think you I think it's totally 767 00:39:58,100 --> 00:40:00,740 possible and obviously that's the route that I personally 768 00:40:00,740 --> 00:40:03,820 chose for myself. I also have worked with runners 769 00:40:03,820 --> 00:40:06,850 who have done both directions. And I actually have one that I 770 00:40:06,850 --> 00:40:10,170 worked with where on one hip they had surgery and on and 771 00:40:10,170 --> 00:40:12,450 they'd had a laparoscopic surgery on the other hip. 772 00:40:12,530 --> 00:40:15,610 We treated it conservatively and they're doing great in both. 773 00:40:15,690 --> 00:40:20,170 So you know like the it's they're in a good spot and it is 774 00:40:20,170 --> 00:40:23,370 a it can be a scary thing. But that's my story in terms of 775 00:40:23,410 --> 00:40:25,730 coming through it conservatively and it's I think it's totally 776 00:40:25,730 --> 00:40:28,630 possible. But David, what do you want to 777 00:40:28,630 --> 00:40:29,990 add anything to it? No. 778 00:40:29,990 --> 00:40:31,670 Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. 779 00:40:31,670 --> 00:40:34,390 I think that's very insightful and it's, I think it's very 780 00:40:34,390 --> 00:40:35,950 helpful. You know, it's a very human 781 00:40:35,950 --> 00:40:38,310 experience and way to look and approach this. 782 00:40:39,030 --> 00:40:41,270 I I feel like you touched it very well. 783 00:40:41,270 --> 00:40:44,150 When I take a look at anatomically what's going on, 784 00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:46,510 something's impinging it, right, whether it's a Cam lesion, 785 00:40:46,510 --> 00:40:50,110 pincer lesion, something isn't letting that thing go into full 786 00:40:50,110 --> 00:40:52,030 range. And traditionally the most 787 00:40:52,030 --> 00:40:55,190 impinging positions are going to be flexion hip coming up IE 788 00:40:55,190 --> 00:40:56,470 sitting like you were mentioning. 789 00:40:56,930 --> 00:40:59,930 Internal rotation, adduction, there's a test called a fader. 790 00:40:59,930 --> 00:41:02,570 It's Just Dance reflection adduction, internal rotation. 791 00:41:02,930 --> 00:41:05,690 And you basically take that, put it up forward, jam that thing 792 00:41:05,690 --> 00:41:07,490 inwards and be like, does this hurt? 793 00:41:07,490 --> 00:41:13,290 And it's like, yes, that hurts. But essentially when we look at 794 00:41:13,290 --> 00:41:14,810 running, there's an impact as well. 795 00:41:14,810 --> 00:41:18,050 So you're landing that femur kind of with gravity kind of 796 00:41:18,050 --> 00:41:19,890 comes down and adducts and internally rotates. 797 00:41:19,890 --> 00:41:23,730 And so even though it's not all three, it is 2 of them. 798 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,680 And so that can create a little bit of a jarring force into that 799 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,160 region. And so I the way I approach that 800 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,440 and I've been able to manage a lot of these conservatively as 801 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,880 well from the people that do come in and see me like, is 802 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,200 being able to control that, being able to create enough 803 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,160 torque to help stabilize your pelvis, your hips, your spine, 804 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:46,560 like that's huge because that helps you attenuate forces and 805 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,880 that doesn't go to the passive structures as much. 806 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,580 And you did say that. And so I feel like you touched 807 00:41:51,580 --> 00:41:54,420 on pretty much everything I would like to and I actually, I 808 00:41:54,660 --> 00:41:56,820 really appreciate that you brought up the adductors as well 809 00:41:56,820 --> 00:42:00,300 because even though they're on the inside of the groin and they 810 00:42:00,300 --> 00:42:02,780 go this way and they kind of internally rotate a little bit, 811 00:42:02,780 --> 00:42:05,540 it feels counter intuitive, but they actually do work really 812 00:42:05,540 --> 00:42:09,180 well as pelvic stabilizers as well, especially when you're 813 00:42:09,180 --> 00:42:11,760 running. And they can help a little bit 814 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,560 when you're in that end range flexion and that extension, they 815 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,560 can almost act a little bit like a hamstring and a hip flexor at 816 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,680 the same time. They can kind of help augment 817 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,560 that transition. And I think people don't talk 818 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,840 about that enough. So I honestly, I couldn't have 819 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,360 said it better myself. So, yeah, I appreciate what your 820 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:30,480 answer was. Yeah. 821 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:32,600 Yeah, I'm happy to share that story too. 822 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,920 I think it's helpful. It's one that I process through 823 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,850 it. You know it's it's a gift that I 824 00:42:37,850 --> 00:42:40,410 could use that story to relate to people when they're 825 00:42:40,410 --> 00:42:43,690 processing all the decisions because of how because of how 826 00:42:43,890 --> 00:42:46,410 unknown some of the stuff with hip is right now. 827 00:42:47,010 --> 00:42:48,730 It can be scary to try to navigate it. 828 00:42:48,730 --> 00:42:52,770 So I I have found it a gift to be able to empathize I think 829 00:42:52,770 --> 00:42:56,570 with with people. I was going to say something 830 00:42:56,570 --> 00:42:58,730 else. Oh, with the adductors, you know 831 00:42:59,010 --> 00:43:02,450 we again we think about pelvic drop and that being a job to 832 00:43:02,450 --> 00:43:07,650 control by the by the abductors. So they glute meat but if you 833 00:43:07,650 --> 00:43:10,250 don't have anything stabilizing the inside, you just have a 834 00:43:10,250 --> 00:43:12,810 floppy pelvis. And I think that the adductors 835 00:43:12,810 --> 00:43:17,170 are this huge muscle group. Glute meat is tiny in comparison 836 00:43:17,170 --> 00:43:19,730 to these adductors and so there's a reason that they're 837 00:43:19,730 --> 00:43:21,450 there. They're also not super well 838 00:43:21,450 --> 00:43:25,250 understood but they do ACT in multiple ways like David said as 839 00:43:25,250 --> 00:43:26,730 a hamstring. But they just give you that 840 00:43:26,730 --> 00:43:29,930 stable platform to operate off of their really neat muscle. 841 00:43:30,970 --> 00:43:33,370 So there's a there's a lot of fun stuff there. 842 00:43:33,490 --> 00:43:44,190 So David, my last question for you is if if he was wearing the 843 00:43:44,230 --> 00:43:49,590 adios whatever Evo One, does he go sub two hours? 844 00:43:49,910 --> 00:43:53,070 Of course he does. I hate this question. 845 00:43:53,510 --> 00:43:54,310 Of course he does. Why? 846 00:43:54,470 --> 00:43:57,830 I know. I asked him. 847 00:43:59,030 --> 00:44:01,030 Of course, why? Why would why did you even ask 848 00:44:01,030 --> 00:44:04,470 me this, Nathan? No, I'm kidding. 849 00:44:04,910 --> 00:44:06,870 We don't know. We have no idea. 850 00:44:07,390 --> 00:44:10,350 We have no idea. I mean, if you do take, we'd 851 00:44:10,350 --> 00:44:13,270 have to do some math on it. But if you take that whole like 852 00:44:13,270 --> 00:44:16,470 was 100%, if you do it can't do it. 853 00:44:16,470 --> 00:44:19,110 That's enough to take 20 something seconds off, maybe, I 854 00:44:19,110 --> 00:44:20,350 don't know. Who knows? 855 00:44:20,350 --> 00:44:23,070 No, because the geometry, the foam, everything's different. 856 00:44:23,070 --> 00:44:24,790 It's. But I I think we should just 857 00:44:24,790 --> 00:44:27,230 spell the fact that we can't just say if they were wearing 858 00:44:27,230 --> 00:44:29,510 this shoe, it's automatically better because it's lighter. 859 00:44:29,510 --> 00:44:33,030 I don't think it's that simple. Anyway, I'm so glad everybody 860 00:44:33,030 --> 00:44:34,830 came. We love doing these mailbags 861 00:44:34,830 --> 00:44:37,270 because we, we love interacting with you through this. 862 00:44:37,270 --> 00:44:38,990 So thank you for submitting questions. 863 00:44:39,190 --> 00:44:42,030 Please submit more again by commenting if you're on YouTube 864 00:44:42,590 --> 00:44:46,430 or if you are listening, you can send us an e-mail at doctor 865 00:44:46,430 --> 00:44:48,790 vernier@gmail.com. So thank you for joining us 866 00:44:48,790 --> 00:44:51,070 today and we'll look forward to talking to you next time.