1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:05,280 Have you had trouble finding a healthcare provider that really 2 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:06,640 understands the needs of runners? 3 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:09,120 Created by physicians, therapists, and trainers, 4 00:00:09,120 --> 00:00:11,840 runcare.org, this week's sponsor for the Doctors of Running 5 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,320 podcast, aims to solve that problem by providing a 6 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:16,920 nationwide list of recommended providers who specialize in 7 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,680 working with runners. Each provider in the Runcare 8 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,160 Network has been vetted and evaluated so you know that 9 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,600 you're visiting someone who knows the value of your training 10 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,080 and lifestyle. The list currently features over 11 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,920 50 doctors and physical therapists across the US and is 12 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,119 expanding to have providers in all 50 states. 13 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,200 Runcare's goal first and foremost is to get runners 14 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:36,440 connected with the care they need. 15 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:38,880 Visit runcare.org today to learn more 16 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,880 everyone and welcome to the Doctors Running Podcast where 17 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,880 we, a group of doctors for Physical therapy, talk about the 18 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:02,280 art and the science of the things we put on our feet. 19 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,440 Today I have Doctor Myers with me, Andrea coming on and we're 20 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,560 going to do a buy or sell episode, which is always really 21 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,160 fun where the two of us are going to go through some 22 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,920 questions that both our colleagues blocks some some 23 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:16,920 listeners have always been nice to share with us. 24 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:19,960 Current controversies, different things that we're we'll 25 00:01:19,960 --> 00:01:23,080 hopefully disagree on a little bit just to create some some 26 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,320 interesting conversation. But yeah, it should be really 27 00:01:26,320 --> 00:01:27,600 fun. These episodes are always really 28 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,400 cool because we get to kind of discuss some of the things that 29 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:33,040 are on our minds currently. First before we get started. 30 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:34,680 Andrew always got to ask how you're doing. 31 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,600 I hear you just decided to do a treadmill run instead of running 32 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,160 in like -5°. How was the treadmill run? 33 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,560 Treadmill run was pretty good. I think I made the right 34 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,480 decision because I did not get frostbite or come back frozen at 35 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,320 the end. Kept myself entertained with a 36 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:55,840 Goggins podcast and watching the Valencia marathon, so the time 37 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,320 flew by. That's funny, My wife, when she 38 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:03,880 was doing, trying to shoot for the treadmill like 50K record or 39 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,280 whatever, the 50 mile record, she was listening to David 40 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,120 Goggins the whole time and I'm like, oh, that makes total sense 41 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,160 as a way to get you through treadmill stuff I somehow have 42 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,560 never done any longer, Chelbo runs. 43 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,000 I think that's because I've been so spoiled being in either than 44 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,440 the Northwest, where it hasn't been that bad when I've been 45 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,720 there, or the majority of my life have been in Southern 46 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,960 California, which I have no right to ever complain about 47 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:27,600 weather here. Like even we had that big, that 48 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,960 big storm that was coming through, I still ran outside and 49 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:31,160 my wife was like, you're going to die. 50 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:32,720 And I was like, it's sprinkling like. 51 00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:35,800 You are a very spoiled California. 52 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:37,840 Yeah, definitely a spoiled Californian. 53 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,760 So, like, that's why I had no excuse to to not run outside. 54 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,760 So I'll do it regardless. But yeah, that's maybe that's a 55 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,680 buy or sell is like weather talk about. 56 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:48,920 That. But our actual buy and sell 57 00:02:48,920 --> 00:02:51,440 before we start this something that we have been talking about 58 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:55,000 a lot as more and more super shoes are coming to the market, 59 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,600 as more and more of the trainers that we wear are actually 60 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,440 starting to get super, super components. 61 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,240 And obviously everybody's always like, hey, So what would these 62 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,320 times actually be like if these didn't exist are subjective. 63 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:10,640 Today is if super shoes didn't exist, what modern shoe would 64 00:03:10,640 --> 00:03:12,720 you race in. And Andrew was quick to correct 65 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,240 because my my first response was like oh would race in the Takumi 66 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,640 Sen original. She goes modern, so it has to be 67 00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:20,920 out now. So let us know in the comments 68 00:03:20,920 --> 00:03:23,600 whether you're or or message us. Let us let us know if you're 69 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,360 watching this on YouTube or listening to this on Spotify or 70 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:30,720 wherever you consume this media. Let us know what modern shoe you 71 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,280 would consider racing in. Do you have an answer for that? 72 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:38,280 Well, this will surprise no one, but since it has to currently 73 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:42,000 exist, I think it would actually be the Burke's Hyperion Max and. 74 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,480 You're going to say that? Honestly, if the beacon still 75 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:46,840 existed, it would. Be that one. 76 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,480 That's a great one, you know. Yeah. 77 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,720 I don't know. I wish I had thought this 78 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:57,520 through. If we're not counting super, 79 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,600 like if if a shoe that still is not considered super, super is 80 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:02,840 something that we could consider. 81 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:04,400 I'd probably. I know I joked about this, but 82 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,360 the Takubi said nine. If we're allowing that stuff 83 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,280 because it's technically not that maxed out that you know, I 84 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,240 would definitely consider racing in that shoe. 85 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,640 I don't know what else. There's some really good options 86 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:18,040 out there. They've been fun to work out 87 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,279 with out in. You know what, I'd probably be 88 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:22,760 racing in the Hyperion GTS, to be honest with you. 89 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,200 If we really are going to get really specific here, that's 90 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,680 probably what I would race in. I think for the purpose of this 91 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,920 question we should say a non super shoe does not have PIBA 92 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,440 and it doesn't have a plate. Right. 93 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:39,840 No plate, no special foam. Has to be something modern. 94 00:04:39,840 --> 00:04:41,680 Yeah. So I would do Hyperion GTS for 95 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:43,120 sure, which has been a solid shoe. 96 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:45,640 I'm still, I'm coming up on 100 miles from those. 97 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,840 Somebody reminded me to do 100 mile review. 98 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,480 Not sure if people actually pay attention to those, but anyway, 99 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:54,640 all right, So yeah. Oh, on that topic of that shoe, 100 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,720 one of my friends is a pro triathlete and she uses the 101 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,680 Brooks Hyperion as like her recovery day shoe. 102 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,160 That's impressive. Although you know if you're used 103 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,000 to some of that stuff that that doesn't surprise me. 104 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,160 If you like more minimal stuff, I don't. 105 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,240 I don't blame you, given how light it is, and it's still got 106 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,680 some Christian, but that's still impressive based off what is 107 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:15,920 what are what? Are they recent? 108 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:22,080 Vaporfly. That's, that's the ratio in the 109 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:23,720 ring. Hey, I'm not, you know, that's 110 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,120 the good foot strengthening tool, but for a recovery shoe, 111 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:27,400 yeah. Wow, it's Yeah. 112 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:31,160 I mean, I love the Hyperion, but I would not use it for like my 113 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,560 easy slog shoe for sure. Whatever, you know, whatever 114 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:38,360 floats your your boat. But on that, on that topic, 115 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,240 although I don't think this is what's this person's marathon 116 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:47,880 PR? I think she ran like a 2:50, but 117 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,800 that was before she like really got fit and I think she ran a 118 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,400 sub three hour marathon at the end of an Ironman. 119 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:56,240 Got it. All right. 120 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,360 This is not going to this next question is not going to apply 121 00:05:58,600 --> 00:05:59,880 to this. Person because that is not 122 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:01,640 saving. Fast at the end of an Ironman. 123 00:06:02,840 --> 00:06:08,120 So our first question or buy or sell comment is using super 124 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,640 shoes for marathoners over 4 hours. 125 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,640 This has been a kind of a big not controversy but it's there's 126 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:16,160 definitely been some talk about this. 127 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,280 There's actually been some studies about this from Dustin. 128 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,880 One study from Dustin Jubert that I know but I'm going to 129 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:22,640 toss this to you first. What do you think should 130 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,840 marathoners over 4 hours be using super shoes or not buyers. 131 00:06:26,840 --> 00:06:29,040 I'm. Going to say buy, but of course 132 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:34,360 with the caveat of it depends. So that Jubert study was really 133 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,920 well done. It compared the Vapor Fly to to 134 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:43,240 the ASICS Hyper speed and they found like I think around a 1.5% 135 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,240 running economy improvement in the Vapor Fly 2. 136 00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:49,720 But there are a few things you have to consider. 137 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:54,200 One, the Hyper speed might not be a good shoe for those people 138 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,840 otherwise. So perhaps a better comparison 139 00:06:57,840 --> 00:07:01,840 would have been a non super shoe that they would have raced a 140 00:07:01,840 --> 00:07:05,960 marathon in if they weren't you know trying out the Vapor Fly 2. 141 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:11,320 The other thing is, we all know since we test so many shoes, not 142 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,840 every super shoe is comfortable. Not every super shoe works with 143 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,360 your mechanics. So you have to find a shoe, one 144 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,000 that's comfortable. You know, we've talked a lot 145 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,040 about the run cat, how to find different attributes of shoes 146 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,720 that work well for your feet and your bio mechanics. 147 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,600 It also has to work well for 26.2 miles. 148 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:37,560 So a shoe that you might love, you know, racing a 5K or 10K in 149 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,960 may or may not be the shoe that feels great for a marathon. 150 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,920 So one, you've got to find a shoe that is comfortable, that 151 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,840 you can go the distance in two. Then you've got to compare that 152 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:53,160 shoe to other shoes that you might have worn in a marathon 153 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,160 that might feel more comfortable or might still feel faster. 154 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,120 So it comes down to you've got to make the right decision for 155 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,760 yourself. There's nothing magical about 156 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,600 every super shoe that means, oh, you're going to put it on and 157 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,400 you're going to run APR. There's too many other factors 158 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:10,320 that go into it. I. 159 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,840 I totally agree with you. I'm actually going to be a 160 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,680 little bit more controversial and I'm going to say sell on 161 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,200 this, but also with the same caveat. 162 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,400 Is it it obvious? There's a lot of variables that 163 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,040 go into this. If you're someone where there's 164 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,480 a super shoe that you love this shoe, it works for you. 165 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,520 You've done long run successfully and not had any 166 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,400 problems in the shoe and you've kind of you've done some good 167 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,159 marathon simulation stuff or like, I think that's totally 168 00:08:35,159 --> 00:08:37,400 fine. We also didn't specify what race 169 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:38,600 distance. So if you talk about like a 170 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,240 shorter race, I think it's fine. But a lot of marathons are 171 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:42,960 obviously going to be shooting for a marathon. 172 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,160 So I think if you're going to do that, my opinion based on 173 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:51,160 Dustin's study which I also get, they use the hyper speed that to 174 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,760 be honest most people are not going to wear that's that's kind 175 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,000 of your more traditional racing flat which when those were a 176 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:01,360 thing racing flats were only used by a very small percentage 177 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,040 of people. And to be honest, companies used 178 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,120 to lose money with lose money with racing flats because it 179 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,080 they did not sell versus now for the first time we're seeing 180 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:13,200 racing shoes are actually like being taken in huge volumes. 181 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,440 So I'm still going to say sell because I think there's better 182 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:20,040 options over the marathon distance and I think the 183 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,960 benefits are not outweighed by the risks of being in these 184 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,320 soft, unstable, aggressive shoes. 185 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,160 The lot of marathoners and people are probably not going to 186 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,880 like they may they might feel bouncy the 1st 10 or so miles 187 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,240 and then when you have to learn to control that, that's where I 188 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:40,040 have some concerns and kind of tending to overuse these shoes. 189 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,080 You know, we still don't know a lot about this, so I will 190 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:43,960 acknowledge that. But I think some better options 191 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,720 people should be open to are some of these like half super 192 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:52,880 shoes like the the Saucony Kivara Pro or the Hoka Mock Mock 193 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,840 XI say that right? Yeah, Mock X, the Adidas Boston 194 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:00,280 12 Shoes like that I think are are better option because 195 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,200 they're part trainers and they've got the Super shoe 196 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,240 components. Or to be honest with you, if 197 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,760 your goal is to finish and be comfortable, you might do fine 198 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,360 with some of the lightweight trainers out there. 199 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,240 But again, if you find there's a super shoe that works for you, 200 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,320 awesome. You know, the New Balance SC 201 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,240 Elite 3 is a shoe that a lot of people have success with because 202 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,560 it's comfortable, but it's also not the most aggressive super 203 00:10:20,560 --> 00:10:22,080 shoe. It was the shoe that I found 204 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,320 great for longer runs, but I did not enjoy picking up the pace 205 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:27,000 in. So I think you're totally right. 206 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:28,400 It depends. But I'm going to be more on the 207 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,520 cell end. It's not that you can't use them 208 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,200 if you find them that you like them awesome, but I think most 209 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,840 people are being sold on this. Oh, this is going to make this 210 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:41,240 me so much faster. And that's not what these do. 211 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:45,200 They improve your ability to hold a faster pace over longer 212 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,200 periods. That's what running economy is. 213 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,320 It's not how fast you go, it's how efficient you are. 214 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:52,640 But you have to be able to use that tool. 215 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,200 And I think there might be better tools for people to 216 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:59,240 maximize their performance, but that's my opinion. 217 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,080 Yeah, definitely. I think you made some really 218 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,200 good points. I do think, you know, just 219 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,440 working with patients who are runners and some of the people 220 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,920 that I coach, people who go into running shoe stores looking for 221 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:16,080 a marathon shoe, I mean, so many of them are just like pushed on 222 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,680 the Alpha Fly or the Vapor Fly without like any consideration 223 00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:22,480 about their pace their. Running. 224 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:27,120 Yeah, and that that really bothers me because and then 225 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:31,080 they're not like educated that no, you shouldn't do every run 226 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,120 in this shoe. It's a tool, but it's a tool for 227 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,000 a specific purpose. So they're basically handed like 228 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:41,640 this very high tech racing shoe and just sent off to figure it 229 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:43,200 out themselves. I know. 230 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,000 Yeah, I know. I use this analogy a lot. 231 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,280 It's like me, even though I'm in Southern California and I drive 232 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,560 faster now, I'm an Oregon driver at heart, which means our speed 233 00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:57,080 limit on the freeway is 50. So that's like giving me who's 234 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:02,240 only really driven, Honda, Fitz or Subarus, giving me a 235 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,680 Lamborghini and expecting me to be able to handle that. 236 00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:07,240 Driving in Monrovia here, it's like that. 237 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:09,080 Don't do that. That's not appropriate. 238 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:13,080 I wouldn't do that. You know, I'm spending however, 239 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,480 hundreds of thousands dollars on a car that really doesn't match 240 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,240 what I need it for and I'm going to probably run it into 241 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:19,720 something. That's how it goes. 242 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:21,560 So I'm not saying people, that's what's going to happen. 243 00:12:21,560 --> 00:12:24,760 But it's not appropriate for somebody just getting into 244 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,440 running and learning how to run when we have the other variables 245 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,720 of like not. And I'm not saying 4 hour 246 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:31,520 marathoners are new. There's lots of people who've 247 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,800 been running for 10:15, 20-30 years who are 4 hour 248 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:36,480 marathoners. I just think the way the 249 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,360 mechanics are designed are developed with that shoe is not 250 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:40,880 with that individual mind. Right. 251 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:43,320 Yeah. Sweet. 252 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:44,600 Did I interrupt you? My bad. 253 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:45,640 Oh, no. All right. 254 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,040 All right. So our next buy and sell, which 255 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,760 I'm really curious to see how we go on this. 256 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,800 So the next buy and sell is heart rate monitors for runners. 257 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:56,320 What do you think? Buy or sell? 258 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:01,760 I'm going to say buy on chest heart rate monitors and sell on 259 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,640 optical heart rate monitors in watches and arm straps. 260 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:10,840 So the SO one heart rate monitors are a good tool. 261 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,320 It's one measure of your physiological output. 262 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:16,720 Heart rate is not a perfect measure. 263 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,760 It can be influenced by a lot of external factors like heat, 264 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:25,320 dehydration, caffeine, fatigue, if you drank alcohol the night 265 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:29,080 before. So you can't just like set your 266 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,760 heart rate zones and like stick to them perfectly because there 267 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,240 are so many other factors that are going to influence your 268 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:40,080 heart rate at a given effort level, pace, energy output. 269 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:45,160 So that being said, a chest heart rate monitor is the 270 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:49,040 closest to EKG accuracy you can get. 271 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:54,080 They work by measuring the electrical signals from your 272 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,360 heart. That's why I say buy for the 273 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,760 chest ones, the optical ones which are in like every watch 274 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:06,680 that's on the market and Fitbits you know any wearable and now 275 00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:09,040 some companies are coming out with the arm strap. 276 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,560 Those are less accurate I. Didn't know that. 277 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,440 Oh yeah, I didn't. Know that I've seen those 278 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,480 everywhere and I'm like, what the what is this? 279 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:19,720 So that's great to know. Good. 280 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,640 The new thing that's marketed is just less accurate than what we 281 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:23,320 used to have. Cool. 282 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:27,400 Anything optical is less accurate because of course it 283 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:31,280 works the way a pulse ox does. It's shooting red light into 284 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,280 your skin and you it. You're positioning it over an 285 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:41,560 artery, so that pulse of blood flow interrupts the light that's 286 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,640 being shot in here, wrist or arm. 287 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:46,560 And that's how it gets your heart rate. 288 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:50,280 Well, that can be, well, it is less accurate. 289 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,240 There have been some studies on this and they actually found 290 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:57,800 that the watches are more accurate for sedentary 291 00:14:57,800 --> 00:14:59,520 activities. So like, if you just want to 292 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,400 know your heart rate, like sitting around or you know, 293 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,680 doing stuff around the house there it's closer in accuracy to 294 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,880 a chest strap or even to an EKG. But when you're running, when 295 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:16,040 you're cycling there, there's conflicting evidence about 296 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,880 whether or not if your arm is moving more like running or 297 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:24,040 using an an elliptical with like the arm, things that might 298 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:29,120 decrease the accuracy. But there's so much anecdotal 299 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,720 stuff out there where people test like their heart rate strap 300 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,120 versus, you know, the optical sensor on their Garmin watch or 301 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,920 their chorus watch. And typically your average heart 302 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,640 rate with an optical sensor is lower and you're going to get a 303 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:47,840 lot of erroneous readings. So when I first got like my 304 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,760 first 4 runner watch that had the optical sensor, I decided to 305 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,520 test it by like using the sensor with the watch and then having 306 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:58,240 my heart rate chest strap feed to a different watch. 307 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,800 And it was wild how different they were And just on like an 308 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:06,120 easy run like my heart rate rarely gets over 165. 309 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,560 And the wrist watch said that I was like up in the one 80s for 310 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:13,520 like 20 minutes. So good thrust like like. 311 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,000 All anaerobic threshold effort. Yeah, exactly. 312 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:17,480 Yeah, I like, should have been dead. 313 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:24,840 So, you know, for me, the wrist optical sensor definitely 314 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:26,760 doesn't work as well. So I just turn it off on my 315 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,040 watch. It improves the battery life and 316 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,960 I just use a chest strap. I know that some people don't 317 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,480 like the feeling of a chest strap and I get that. 318 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,080 And I guess you could make a case for like just using the 319 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,560 watch and if that's the only tool you're using, it's going to 320 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,480 be off, but at least it's like consistently off. 321 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,000 But I think it's also important to have like accurate heart rate 322 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,680 readings. In case like you have sudden 323 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,520 bouts of high heart rate or tachycardia, you need to know if 324 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,720 that's actually, like, real or if that's an artifact from your 325 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,200 watch. So buy for chest heart rate 326 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,040 straps. Sell for everything else. 327 00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:07,520 How about you? If we're going to talk about 328 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:12,520 overall, this is maybe me being a hippie, but I'm I'm going to 329 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:18,040 go with sell for the majority of people and the reason is data is 330 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:19,720 great. I think that's really awesome. 331 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,280 But there's also been an equal amount of evidence that suggests 332 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,839 that your internal feel can honestly be more accurate than a 333 00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:28,200 lot of these things because of the errors that you're talking 334 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:29,840 about. Yes, even the heart rate stuff. 335 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,920 But if you're doing like an EKG, things like that, that is 336 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,480 actually an evidence base that's been found to be valid and 337 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,320 reliable. It's it's the gold standard of 338 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,320 what you use. If you don't have that, like 339 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,280 kind of what's the point? And also ask the follow up 340 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:46,600 question if you are like overextended and you don't feel 341 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,440 good and you're going, oh I have to keep pushing because my heart 342 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,280 rate says it's the my rating says it's this. 343 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,480 I feel like that's putting at risk for training. 344 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:58,280 One of the one of my my opinion is runners should be learning to 345 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,760 really understand how they feel and be able to reel that in just 346 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,040 because we've seen actually, correct me if I'm wrong, there's 347 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:05,960 been a lot of great cycling studies that have found that if 348 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,600 you're trained and go based on your internal feel, people tend 349 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,520 to be better at reading when they're ready to go for like 350 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:14,440 intervals or efforts and training. 351 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,080 So I think it's a great tool for the right person. 352 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,200 I feel like most people don't need it and they need to learn 353 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,440 to listen to their bodies better. 354 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,480 So I'm going to go with cell for most people, but I think for 355 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:30,280 those with cardiac issues, Oh yeah, that's a great tool. 356 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,160 I think you should be required to have one, to have the the 357 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,320 heart rate strap just to watch and keep an eye on things to 358 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,240 make sure if you're feeling nauseous or dizziness. 359 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:42,320 That's not coming from this, but I'm still a cell for most 360 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:43,840 people. Just because I don't, I don't 361 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:45,960 want it to replace getting to learn, getting to know your 362 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,680 body. Yeah, I would agree with that. 363 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,200 And actually, even though I always wear my heart rate strap, 364 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,480 I never look at my heart rate data. 365 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,440 And if you asked me what my heart rate was at any given 366 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,600 time, I could probably tell you within like 3 beats per minute. 367 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:03,040 Yeah. And so it is. 368 00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:07,160 It's important for people to understand what, like different 369 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:12,080 effort levels feel like. But I think for running, you 370 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,920 know, out of all of the metrics you can use, heart rate is still 371 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,760 the best measure of your physiological output. 372 00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:21,280 Running power meters really aren't there yet. 373 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,560 And obviously pace is affected by too many things, wind 374 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,520 temperature, you know, uphill or downhill. 375 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:35,640 So if you like, when I coach people, I want them to wear a 376 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,280 heart rate monitor. If it's watch heart rate 377 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,400 monitor, fine. But I just want some 378 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:46,240 physiological metric that I can track over time so I can start 379 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,520 to learn how their body responds to different training. 380 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,800 That's fair. What about using something like 381 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,080 the Borg scale to give, which has been shown to be fairly 382 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,800 fairly fairly consistent with with heart rate and helping 383 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:00,680 people learn what their effort is? 384 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,280 I'm going to be honest, I hate the Borg scale. 385 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,560 Like, I've been an athlete my whole life. 386 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:11,080 And if you asked me to rate, like my training, like, oh, you 387 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:12,400 went out and did this work out today. 388 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,800 What number would you give it? I don't know. 389 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,360 I didn't die. So not a 10, you know? 390 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,960 So I know that there's all of that research out there saying 391 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,840 the Borg scale is like a reliable measure, but I just 392 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,600 don't use it because I personally hate it. 393 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,720 Right. This is honestly, so this is a 394 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,560 tangent, but some of my students and some of my patients by 395 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,200 those. So I don't actually ask the pain 396 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:40,200 scale anymore after I started learning about how unreliable it 397 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:41,480 is. And it's just like I'm not going 398 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,520 to ask you to do a zero to 10 because nobody understands what 399 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,840 that means. And there's actually very good 400 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,040 data that suggests it's not very valid or reliable and it's very 401 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,040 inconsistent. So I'm like, I'm not even going 402 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,600 to bother asking this because I'm going to be able to tell 403 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,160 based on our conversation if I do get subjective what you're 404 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,480 like, how severe and how irritable this is. 405 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:03,840 But it's interesting that that kind of mirrors you're like I 406 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:05,760 don't really know what the IT the research might show 407 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:07,240 something, but it's like, I don't know. 408 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,000 So I get it. I hear you on that, but I. 409 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,240 Think maybe I agree with. Trying to get in touch with 410 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:16,320 yourself is like against against heart rate for most people. 411 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,280 But I you are right. Well, actually, you know you're 412 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,360 bringing up the pain skills similar because a lot of 413 00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:25,720 patients will say, well, it's hard to rate it because it's a 414 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,680 low level of pain, but it's there all the time, which makes 415 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:33,120 it worse. So similarly like doing a 20 416 00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:38,000 mile, like moderately paced run could feel a lot harder than 417 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:42,880 like a five mile, you know, threshold run depending you know 418 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:47,080 on your levels of fatigue. So I also, now that I don't deal 419 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,440 with insurance companies anymore, I don't ask the pain 420 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,760 scale anymore either, because there's so you can document a 421 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,200 person's pain in so many better ways than a number. 422 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,600 It is so much more multifactorial which might also 423 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,040 go to the same thing with effort that it's so there is so there's 424 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,320 so many more variables into that than just how hard was it in 425 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,200 terms of there's different way OK that's that's fair. 426 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,800 I'm still a bit of a sell, but you've almost convinced me. 427 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:14,360 So I get it. All right. 428 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,520 So let's go current controversy right now. 429 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,720 Our next buy and sell question which Andrew, if you don't mind, 430 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,400 I'm going to jump in on this is, are the Guevara's safe for 431 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,920 running The the background behind this is another reviewer 432 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,120 out there was basically saying the newest Guevara 14 was 433 00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:35,200 absolutely not safe for runners because it flexes in the mid 434 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:36,640 foot. And I do want to give some 435 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,880 acknowledgement that yes shoes that have a major flex point 436 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,800 only in the mid foot are really not a great option just because 437 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:47,000 there is no joint there that flexes in that plane of motion 438 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,600 for those watching on YouTube, whatever medium you can see me 439 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,480 so I'm holding up a foot model. All the places that have like 440 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,800 sagittal plane or front to back motion are either at the toes or 441 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,560 the actual ankle joint itself or the Taylor cruel joint. 442 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,320 The mid foot doesn't have any joints or at least it's not 443 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:07,360 supposed to have any joints that flex forwards to back that all 444 00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:09,680 most of their majority, the majority of the motion is in the 445 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,880 side to side motion that and that doesn't even that's not 446 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:13,080 even correct. It's actually where like 447 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,280 diagonal is actually how the planes of joint motion are. 448 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,920 So I do understand that there's not a lot of research on this. 449 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,120 This is more clinical experience about going, yeah, shoes that 450 00:23:22,120 --> 00:23:25,320 tend to flex in the mid foot can be irritable for a lot of soft 451 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,880 tissue there, be it plantar fascia, be it a lot of the 452 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,600 intrinsic muscles, be it putting stress on some of the bone 453 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,000 tissue there. So I I get that. 454 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,280 But my other thing to be really careful with is when you get a 455 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,360 shoe and some people have probably heard me this before, 456 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,000 when you get a shoe, if it's not on your foot, do not do the bend 457 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,440 test. I remember that was a big thing 458 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,760 That is let me actually not curse on this podcast that is 459 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,520 absolutely stupid. If you bend the shoe at equal 460 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,120 ends, basic physics means that it's going to start bending in 461 00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:55,560 the middle. If you do the bend test, it's 462 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,960 and like aggressively it's going to create a midfoot flex point 463 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:00,440 and you have screwed up the shoe. 464 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,160 OK? It's not supposed to flex there. 465 00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:05,040 If you work hard to create that, that's not great. 466 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,000 OK. So I'm going to say by the 467 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,200 Canvaras are safe for runners. They are designed as a more 468 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,920 lightweight, minimal shoe. As long as you don't create a 469 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,040 flex point, that's fine. I will say to be fair and I'm 470 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,920 curious, Andrew, to hear your thoughts on the newest version 471 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,000 that one of the things I didn't quite like as much is how much 472 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,880 the midfoot narrows when you have a narrower midfoot. 473 00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:30,280 It does because there's less surface area and less material 474 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,040 there does make it increase the risk of it, it flexing there. 475 00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:37,360 I have never had that issue. A lot of times when I have have 476 00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:40,200 put this shoe on, that wasn't a problem for me because I'm 477 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,000 pushing off pretty hard through the forefoot and I'm not 478 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,360 somebody who's doing the bend test for whatever reason. 479 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,200 When you do bend it in like this, yes, it does start to 480 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,960 crease in that way, but that's not something I felt. 481 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:56,760 I've never had any planar faster issues, so I do think it's safe 482 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,560 for the majority of runners. There's no specific flex point, 483 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,720 flex groove in that area. Could Socketi maybe have 484 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,120 extended the outsole pieces a little farther forward there? 485 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,280 Yeah, that might have been a great option. 486 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,720 But I think this shoe is safe for runners personally. 487 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:16,400 What do you think? I agree by on Kenvara's Kenvara. 488 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,240 The original was actually the shoe that got me back into 489 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,200 running, you know, however many years ago. 490 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,240 I love it. But that being said, it's a 491 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,760 really neutral shoe. It's gotten a lot more stack 492 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,440 over the years. You know, the original Canvara 493 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,640 was like slightly beefier than a racing flat. 494 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,560 Now the current Canvara, I think the heel stack heights in the 495 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,960 low 30s, right? I think it is 3228 or something. 496 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,320 You don't have to double check this, but yeah, keep going. 497 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:47,720 Yeah. So yes. 498 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,200 You're right, 313127 is the current stack height of the 499 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:56,280 version 14. So the today's Kinvara is a 500 00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:00,000 little more protective than the Kinvara I fell in love with, you 501 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,920 know, 15 years ago or whatever. And it doesn't have any real 502 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,080 stability features. So you have to have the 503 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,760 mechanics that work for you with the Kinvara. 504 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,600 But yeah, the whole controversy about like the midsole or the 505 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,200 midfoot flex point is not a valid controversy. 506 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,800 It's just like any other shoe. You've got to try it, see if it 507 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:24,040 works for, you know, if you have any stability needs, it's not 508 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:28,360 going to do anything for you. I would say, you know, just my 509 00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:30,720 complaint with the Canvar is they've made the toe box 510 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,000 increasingly narrower over the years, just made it less 511 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,000 comfortable for me. But there's nothing like 512 00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:39,720 particularly risky about running in a Canvarum. 513 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,120 Yeah, when the we had the Canvaro 14 is when I was just 514 00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:46,440 recovering from my toe fracture which again not to drone on. 515 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,640 I broke my toe carrying my cat and kicked a barbell. 516 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,360 It actually had nothing to do with running, but it impact 517 00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:53,760 that. So I had a hard time running in 518 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,000 that shoe because of that because of the narrow toe box. 519 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,800 And finally as I got, I got over that I could tolerate it more 520 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:01,640 and more and more, but that was a little tough. 521 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:03,680 But yeah, it's just gotten a little bit more snug but it's 522 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,920 also gotten a lot lighter. So I'd love to see personally a 523 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,400 little bit more room there if you've got a little bit less 524 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,120 shoe, but it does have a lot higher stack height. 525 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,080 So I get some of the concerns. I think Saucony, it would be 526 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,160 helpful to maybe widen that midfoot just a little bit 527 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,600 because the older versions actually had the midfoot filled 528 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,600 in, which was great and it made it what wasn't a stability shoe, 529 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,960 but it just made it like like stable, neutral essentially just 530 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,840 because that there was a higher arch, the midfoot was wider. 531 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,160 It was fairly box like, which I still remember not to be rude 532 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,720 even though because that shoe was my one of my favorite shoes 533 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,440 I I went through, I don't know how many pairs, but remember the 534 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,280 first time I've put it on, I was like, it feels like I'm running 535 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,720 in a shoebox. And I think I just didn't 536 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,560 understand because the midsole wasn't so curved. 537 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,480 It was very like straight. And I was like, what is this? 538 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,160 And then obviously loved it and then ran. 539 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,840 I don't know like probably had 1520 pairs of the first couple 540 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,920 versions, so yeah. I did several trail races in. 541 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,880 You know what the triangle lugs, I forget the name of it. 542 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,560 They worked so well. It's when when they came out 543 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,200 with the the Kinvara trail or TR like trails. 544 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,200 Like why do you need this It already works. 545 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,320 Well no offense to sake but I was like why do you need this. 546 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,680 It already works fine on trail but yeah so they still have that 547 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,120 but it is what it is. So yeah OK we're both bi on 548 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,040 Kevar's are safe just don't create a flex crew. 549 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,440 And if for whatever reason if you're wearing a Kevara in any 550 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,760 shoe and it starts to do that and it's bothering your foot 551 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:32,560 maybe it's not appropriate for you. 552 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,280 Maybe something about your how you are interacting with the 553 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,240 shoe isn't the best and that's why you got to really make sure 554 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:40,880 it's great. If you wherever you buy your 555 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,000 running shoes, make sure they have some kind of return policy 556 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,520 so if you figure out this isn't working for you, move on. 557 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,440 That's that's really what it comes down to. 558 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,400 Yeah, more and more running stores. 559 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,760 Do you have like they give you a couple weeks to run in the shoot 560 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:54,720 and bring it back so if it's. Not working. 561 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,920 Like they have it for a reason, yeah. 562 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,840 Use it All right. I don't know about this next 563 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:00,720 one, but I'm going to throw it out. 564 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,160 Maybe you might have a more of a opinion that I do but so by or 565 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,160 sell on the Olympic marathon trials moving down to 10:00 AM 566 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,520 Eastern Time in order to maximize the athlete performance 567 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,520 versus maximize viewership. And then I know Paris is still 568 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,960 adjusting, but what do you think about the the time change by or 569 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,120 sell? I do have a lot of thoughts 570 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:24,600 about this, mostly from my bike racing experience, but kind of 571 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,520 crossing over to you. OK, So they moved it from 12:00 572 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,720 to 10:00. I think they said that at noon, 573 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,160 what the temperatures are going to be in the 80s that time of 574 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,600 year in Florida, Is that right? No. 575 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,720 Offense to Florida, but that's what you get for having this in 576 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:40,920 Florida. Exactly so. 577 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,480 That sounds miserable. But the Paris Marathon also 578 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:51,800 could be that hot. So should the race that, you 579 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,000 know. Test who should go to the 580 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,000 Olympics have similar conditions. 581 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,840 Well, you could argue for that, but then at the same time you 582 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,760 have to consider just overall athletes safety. 583 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,160 So in cycling I was a pro cyclist. 584 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:11,880 In the past organizers had less than optimal concern for rider 585 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,000 safety. I've raced in thunderstorms, 586 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:20,520 lightning storms, freezing rain, highway, you know, just all 587 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,520 sorts of dangerous conditions and that's part of bike racing. 588 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,960 But there have been, there were some races where the conditions 589 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,840 were so bad that like, the riders actually protested at the 590 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,880 start and the officials told us to race anyway. 591 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,680 And then at the end of the race, because so many people crashed 592 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,720 due to the horrible conditions, they decided to neutralize the 593 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,080 results. So basically, the race didn't 594 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,480 count after like one woman broke her collarbone. 595 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,680 She was supposed to go to the Olympics the next month. 596 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,960 It was horrible. So at there does have to be a 597 00:30:54,960 --> 00:31:00,160 tipping point where, yes, you want to choose athletes who are 598 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,360 going to race best in the Olympic conditions. 599 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,200 But at the same time, you also have to consider, well, is 600 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,080 holding the race in these conditions going to be unsafe 601 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,040 for everyone? I mean, look at what they did 602 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:17,200 for the Tokyo Olympic marathon. They moved both the start time 603 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:21,000 and didn't they move like the location of the race too, like 604 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,160 it was originally going to be? I can't. 605 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:26,640 Remember that. I apologize. 606 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:28,360 I should know that. I don't remember. 607 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,520 If anybody does remember that, please comment below. 608 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,040 But yeah. I know where you're going. 609 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,080 With this. Yeah, you know it could be 95° 610 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:39,120 in Paris on marathon race day. And they potentially could or 611 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,080 should move the start time earlier because like at some 612 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,800 point conditions are no longer just challenging, but they're 613 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:50,560 dangerous. So where that tipping point is 614 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,200 should be defined. So now cycling actually has like 615 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,080 better rules about what to do with adverse weather conditions 616 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,280 and how to make decisions. So perhaps the running world 617 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,800 needs to have similar guidelines, Like if the heat 618 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:08,920 index is going to be above this, or is reasonably expected to be 619 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,440 above this based on like historical weather patterns, 620 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,800 then the race should be moved earlier for everybody's safety. 621 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,480 I I totally agree that I'm a bi about moving this down that you 622 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,000 know viewership is one thing but athlete safety is also probably 623 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,480 is more important than that. Like this isn't some kind of you 624 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,240 know, like I I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way of what 625 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,080 I'm saying. It's not like some like show 626 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,160 where you just you know people are dying out there just for 627 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:37,440 you. It's not it's not the, it's not 628 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,040 the like Colosseum. It's not the Roman games where 629 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,080 if you die it just and more entertaining, right. 630 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:43,600 That's not how this is supposed to be. 631 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:45,640 It's athlete safety. We're also talking about 632 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,280 Olympics and Olympic marathon trials which these are formed 633 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,760 around humanity even like the biggest things that people watch 634 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,360 honestly was one of those moments where like there's 635 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,640 compassion and somebody's like struggling and somebody else 636 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,880 helps them across the fish line. It's about like compassion and 637 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:03,840 and being human. Not like torturing people for 638 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,600 views and money. And I I that's really important 639 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:08,880 to remember. So I'm totally for this and just 640 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,720 like from what I remember the Tokyo Marathon doing the same 641 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,960 thing, it's really important from also from a medical first 642 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,280 responder standpoint as someone who's done this. 643 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,120 It's not worth it, Pete. And as you've seen as a pro 644 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,000 athlete, it's not worth it. People can die. 645 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,920 And when you start talking about heat, heat is just as, if not 646 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:31,760 more intense than altitude stuff. 647 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,520 And people die all the time. People die every year in in all 648 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,000 kinds of athletic events from heat stroke and heat exhaustion. 649 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:43,280 And sometimes some of the impacts of even having that and 650 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:48,400 not dying can be lifelong. So I would totally say bye and 651 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,680 even going earlier just to maintain the safety of the 652 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,480 athletes I get. It's one thing to try to prepare 653 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:53,840 and see who's going to be performed best. 654 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:58,120 It's another to see you know like just keeping people safe. 655 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:03,800 So just me and you I guess so both because you've actually 656 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,000 been in that situation. Yeah. 657 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,000 All right. So our next question, our next 658 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,800 buyer sell is training, training, training training 659 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,080 companion model. So an example of this is like 660 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,080 the socket endorphins speed being a training companion model 661 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,000 to the Pro, the deviate Nitro being a companion to the Nitro 662 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:26,040 Elite and they get another great example be like Boston 12 and 663 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,120 the Adios Pro. Is this good for the market or 664 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:30,080 not? Buy or sell? 665 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,639 Well, I think it, it comes down to your definition of the 666 00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:38,480 market, right? Is it good for shoe companies? 667 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:39,000 Yeah. Oh. 668 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:40,199 Absolutely. More model, Yeah. 669 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:42,639 Actually, for I don't. Know. 670 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:44,800 It's a good question. Is it good for runners? 671 00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:47,480 Maybe. So here are my thoughts and then 672 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,280 maybe I'll decide if it's a buy or sell. 673 00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:53,760 So some people just race in the training companion models. 674 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,720 My friend broke 3 hours in the marathon in the endorphin speed 675 00:34:57,720 --> 00:34:59,400 three. She likes it better than the 676 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,400 pro. There are a lot of people who 677 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:06,960 like the endorphin speed or the deviate Nitro better than the 678 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,720 Super shoe companion. So in that regard, they're 679 00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:15,320 expanding the potential racing shoe offerings to people, so 680 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,760 that's nice. They're also less expensive, and 681 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:23,320 that's nice for people maybe who can't afford a 250 to $300.00 682 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,160 racing shoe. They can get something that's, 683 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,480 you know, in the 160 to 200 range and still get some of 684 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,000 those super shoe performance benefits without spending all 685 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,880 that money. Is it good for I? 686 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:42,880 I'm sure it helps sell shoes because if somebody buys, let's 687 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,840 say, the endorphin pro and then they don't want to do all of 688 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,160 their training in it, one because they shouldn't, but two, 689 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:53,240 because they want to preserve it for races, then they might be 690 00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:56,040 more likely to buy the speed. So they have a shoe with a 691 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,480 similar feel, but that is maybe a little more durable and 692 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,800 obviously cost less. So in that regard, it's good for 693 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:10,600 athletes, but I think perhaps people might feel like they need 694 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:12,920 to buy both. And that's certainly not true. 695 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,280 You could love racing and you know, let's continue with the 696 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,680 second example, Endorphin Pro 3. But you might not like the 697 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,760 speed, you might like a different shoe for training. 698 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,400 So as long as people don't think that it's like a package deal 699 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,880 and they have to train in the training Companion to like get 700 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,240 the most out of the racing shoe, then I think the training 701 00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:36,880 companion models are fine. So by yourself. 702 00:36:40,720 --> 00:36:42,400 Pass. You know pass. 703 00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:44,520 Yeah. No, I'll go with the buy. 704 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:46,520 All right. I'm going to go with the solid 705 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,680 buy, but I'm going to redirect this and not call these training 706 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:50,840 companions. I'm going to call them 707 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,760 alternatives. So the speed and pro, from what 708 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,840 I understand and somebody can correct me upon on this was they 709 00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,960 were really based on a couple studies that came out that found 710 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,520 that different people respond better to different levels of 711 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,280 synthesis. Now there are other differences 712 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,320 in the speed and Pearl besides the nylon versus carbon plate, 713 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,000 but I've had the same experience where a lot of people love 714 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,920 racing in the speed over the pro, or there's lots of people 715 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,240 who love racing in the deviate natural and so the deviate 716 00:37:17,240 --> 00:37:19,080 natural elite. I don't know if I'd call these 717 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,680 training companions, although they certainly can be. 718 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,760 And it makes sense that if you're trying whatever you have 719 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:29,240 on race day, you should in some way be preparing to utilize that 720 00:37:29,240 --> 00:37:30,640 on race day. Doesn't mean you have to train 721 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,680 100%, but having something similar and less aggressive 722 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,320 could be an option. But it's also possible that 723 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,560 thing that's less aggressive can also be a better thing for you, 724 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,200 even though I just use that term less aggressive. 725 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,040 So I think it's actually a good thing because it creates more 726 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,600 variety and choice for the runner. 727 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,840 Now, do they need 4 different variations of the same model? 728 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:53,560 I don't think so. I think there's a there's a 729 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,400 point where it becomes like decision paralysis, but I think 730 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,320 having at least a couple variation varying like the 731 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,840 amount, like the bounciness, the stiffness, I think that's a good 732 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,840 thing because if you only have one model it's like super 733 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,200 aggressive, super stiff and super expensive. 734 00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:13,720 I think that limits people. So having what like two options 735 00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:17,080 is I think a good thing and big like I said to our earlier 736 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,800 question, I think the endorphin speed, the deviate Nitro, a lot 737 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,800 of these things the you know Saucony Kivara Pro, the Boston 738 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,680 12, I think these are all really good options for a lot of people 739 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,600 to race in if they're finding super shoes to be too 740 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,080 aggressive. So I'm I'm a I'm a buy for this 741 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:36,480 sweet. All right. 742 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:41,160 So now we're going to move into, yeah, let's keep going. 743 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,720 So let's the next question is something that is starting to 744 00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:47,240 come up more as several companies are moving away from 745 00:38:47,240 --> 00:38:51,360 the yearly updates. Although yearly is a strong word 746 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,440 on some of the updates, but buy or sell on biannual model 747 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,800 updates versus so every two years versus annual every single 748 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:04,520 year updates of shoes. I am a solid buy. 749 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:09,800 I think going to every two years just gives one If you love a 750 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,320 shoe, you know you're going to have two years with it. 751 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:17,680 Whereas if they update every one, you know, one, one per 752 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,520 year, you might love a shoe for a year and then they destroy it 753 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,200 and then you have to find something else. 754 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,320 I am speaking from personal experience, by the way. 755 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,480 It also, I think just helps people. 756 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:33,840 In a way. It's good for shoe companies 757 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,960 because it helps people become more loyal to that brand because 758 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:42,000 they may be buying more than one pair of that particular model. 759 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:47,840 But overall, I just think every two years makes more sense for 760 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,520 shoes than every year. I'm totally with you, just 761 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,600 because my opinion hopefully doesn't come off mean or or rude 762 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,000 is that a lot of the the annual updates are really just an upper 763 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,240 update and it's not that big and yet they're jacking the price 764 00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:05,080 back up. And then you have the last 765 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,240 year's model, which is almost the same thing, although 766 00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:10,160 sometimes they say it's an upper update and it's actually a 767 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,120 completely different shoe. And you're like what happened 768 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:14,760 with this, but I think doing that. 769 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,640 It isn't a very smart thing on the company side because then 770 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:21,040 you're just adding a slightly different upper, which people 771 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,920 are on the, the majority are probably not going to get that. 772 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,000 They're going to go, look, I'm going to go get the base of the 773 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,360 same shoe that's now discounted, so that doesn't make sense. 774 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,120 There is times where they say it's an upper update and the 775 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,080 shoe changes and so totally with you that I think people need to 776 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:39,200 get time to get used to a shoe instead of rushing to put stuff 777 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:40,600 out. And I think a lot of the 778 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,120 updates, there's not all, but there's been some updates 779 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,600 recently where it's like you didn't have to put that out. 780 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,280 Like you should just put like a slightly different color and 781 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,800 spend a little bit more time, like really working to create 782 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,400 something worthy of calling it an update and worthy creating a 783 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,120 full price tag that people are going to buy that. 784 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,400 So I'm definitely a buy with this as well, which I know can 785 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,480 be frustrating for people to like, oh, I want the newest 786 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,080 thing. I want to see this like, yeah, 787 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:04,720 you might have to geek out for another year. 788 00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:07,040 Like that's what happens. Like, it doesn't bother me that 789 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,400 we might, you know, we might not have as many shoes to test. 790 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,440 Like, we're super lucky with what we get to do. 791 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,080 And does it bother me? No, it just means we'll get more 792 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,880 miles on the stuff we have and hopefully get you better, more 793 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,520 long term content and people can actually enjoy the shoe longer. 794 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,840 So I'm totally a a bi as well, especially if it means that 795 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,440 companies get more time to actually really work on stuff 796 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,880 instead of feeling rushed to get a new product out. 797 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,200 Because we've definitely got into that age of like, what's 798 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:34,400 the new upstate, what's the new update? 799 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,680 What's the new update? It's like chill out and get used 800 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,480 to the thing and like focus on running, says the person that 801 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,040 founded a a shoe review website. Exactly. 802 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,160 Yeah. Not everybody's buying shoes, 803 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,200 right, when all of the new ones are released. 804 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,320 So by the time somebody decides to try like this year's 805 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,680 whatever, it's probably time for the next year's model. 806 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:56,240 And then they're not going to be able to find it. 807 00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:59,560 Please remind me about that when I freak out. 808 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,400 Like, Oh my gosh, we have to get this review out as soon as 809 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:02,760 possible. Like, people are probably not 810 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,160 going to be reading this for a while because they're going to 811 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,240 be waiting. Even though I panic about that, 812 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,560 I have to run three times to get to get this review out behind 813 00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:15,240 behind True true stories. By the way, the what I have done 814 00:42:15,240 --> 00:42:16,520 to try to get a review out on time. 815 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,320 Well, we also know that you don't really mind running three 816 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,040 times a day, so that's. True. 817 00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:23,280 That's totally fair. Yeah. 818 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:26,800 Yeah, I'm the crazy one. That's true. 819 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,120 All right, next question. So we're a buy on that. 820 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:34,200 So next question is non plated racing shoes for five KS buy or 821 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,640 sell? So I'm going to say sell for my 822 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,960 personal preference, but buy for, you know, everyone else 823 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:46,480 because it depends. I had a lot of hope for the Hoka 824 00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,200 Cielo last year. Oh. 825 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,240 Little they've already grown. Yes. 826 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:56,240 And Hoka, you're they're just well now there is one Hoka that 827 00:42:56,240 --> 00:42:58,520 fits me nicely, but I can't talk about it yet. 828 00:42:59,160 --> 00:42:59,600 Wait. But. 829 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:01,240 You might be able to wait. When is this? 830 00:43:01,240 --> 00:43:06,040 Can I being being released now? We signed an NDA for that. 831 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:11,720 So yeah, let's not get Joel. Yeah, so by December 31st of 832 00:43:11,720 --> 00:43:15,880 2023 there was no hookah that fit my foot comfortably because 833 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,000 the sidewalls irritate my first MTP. 834 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,680 But this yellow, if it was wider in the toe box, I think I would 835 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:30,120 erase a 5K in it, but it is not. It gave me a lot of pain, so I 836 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:35,640 personally love the Alphafly one for 5K's, which is not the 837 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:37,840 typical thing and we're going to talk about that a little bit 838 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:42,400 later, but it's my fastest shoe and I love it. 839 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:48,240 It's so fast. But for other people it might be 840 00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:51,640 that a non plated shoe is the best shoe for you on a 5K. 841 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,440 Again, it depends on your mechanics, it depends on how 842 00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,920 fast you're running, it depends on the type of course, right? 843 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:02,000 And so again, there's no rule that just cause super shoes 844 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:06,080 exist, you have to race in them. So if you feel faster, 845 00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:11,440 especially at faster paces for a 5K in a non plated shoe, then by 846 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,600 all means use one, use the best tool for you. 847 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,600 Or if you're running, you know if you're just doing 5 KS to 848 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,640 finish, you definitely don't need a super shoe run in what's 849 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:26,840 comfortable. So for me it's the alpha fly one 850 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,840 all the way for five KS, but for everyone else, just like 851 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,480 everything else, use the best tool for you. 852 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:38,240 I'm gonna say buy, although I like options just because this 853 00:44:38,240 --> 00:44:41,040 yellow Rd. was pretty solid. Although I have a little issue 854 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,480 where it's just a teeny bit long for me. 855 00:44:43,720 --> 00:44:47,720 But to shoot like the Cyclone 2, I think David and I think we've 856 00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:50,000 talked about a little bit where I actually like a little more 857 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,080 flexibility when I'm trying to run really fast. 858 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:55,280 When it things get too stiff or like too efficient, so to speak. 859 00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,920 It's just hard to, it's hard to push really hard to get really, 860 00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:04,440 really fast personally. So I'm a bi just for very for 861 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,040 like some variety, but not saying everybody has to do it, 862 00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,360 but not for everyone. I get it. 863 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:10,880 That's kind of more of a personal thing. 864 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,520 Have you raised a 5K recently in a non plated shoe? 865 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:23,040 Have I? I've done some mile races 866 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,080 against my students in non plated shoes and actually 867 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,480 preferred that for sure, but I don't know if I've done all 868 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,320 right. I'm going to admit this, that I 869 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,080 almost did And then I saw a bunch of high schoolers and I 870 00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,760 was like, Oh no, I have to grab whatever the most aggressive 871 00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:38,560 shoe I have. We got like endorphin elite, 872 00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:40,920 even though it's not what I don't think it was the best 873 00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:42,560 choice. I keep grabbing it because I'm 874 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:44,960 most comfortable with that shoe and I was just scared to be 875 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:46,720 totally honest. So no I haven't. 876 00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:49,520 But when throwing down against my students during mile races, I 877 00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,280 have definitely used non plated shoes. 878 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,160 Which ones? I have used this Yellow Rd. 879 00:45:56,160 --> 00:46:01,000 I've also used the Cyclone 2 from Topo and it's worked really 880 00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,080 really well. Like this pair I think has like 881 00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:10,200 a 5A5O7 on it, so it worked. It was great. 882 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,000 Yeah, awesome. I think out of all the non 883 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,800 plated shoes, if I was going to do like a mile race it'd either 884 00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:18,600 be the cyclone or the streak fly. 885 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:20,560 That's fair. To pick, yeah. 886 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,800 I never got to run in the streak fly. 887 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:27,120 I'm still kind of curious. It's very nice. 888 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:29,080 All right. We'll have to try the next 889 00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:30,440 version. All right. 890 00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,280 Next one. Oh, I I have some very strong 891 00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,960 opinions about this. Buy or sell super shoes that 892 00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,600 last less than 100 miles. I'll let you go first so I can 893 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:46,480 calm down a little bit. So if there was a super shoe 894 00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:51,560 that lasted less than 100 miles but helped me get a like get a 895 00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,720 achieve a major goal, I would absolutely buy it. 896 00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:01,080 But that being said, we're kind of entering, well, we have 897 00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:05,400 entered an age of running where you can kind of buy speed, 898 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,920 right. And that wasn't necessarily the 899 00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,800 case pre super Shoe. Like, yeah, you could buy like a 900 00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,040 racing flat, but those were actually less expensive than. 901 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,760 Unless you're buying the original Takubi, Sounds was like 902 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,520 160 bucks, which is crazy. But yeah, like if you were 903 00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:27,360 buying like a suck in a eight or something like that's cheaper, 904 00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:29,800 you know, that was like under $100, I think. 905 00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,640 Those are also great to, if you were like a crazy minimalist 906 00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:35,520 like me to train in because you like, oh, I want a new shoe, But 907 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,760 I I just wore through this and I could find them on sale for like 908 00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,840 50 bucks and then churn through those. 909 00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:46,400 Yeah, it was great. So I kind of what's happening in 910 00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:48,040 running reminds me a lot of cycling. 911 00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,440 Like in cycling, you definitely can buy speed, you can buy 912 00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:55,600 wheels that make you faster, you can buy pulleys that are 913 00:47:55,600 --> 00:48:01,600 oversized and ceramic that save you 5 watts, which if you know 914 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:05,080 your race comes down to like a few seconds, that makes a 915 00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,280 difference. But we're talking about spending 916 00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,600 hundreds of dollars on something that's going to last like a 917 00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,960 couple 100 miles of cycling, which is like nothing. 918 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:21,000 So that has basically trickled down to running, and it's making 919 00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:28,000 running less well, it's it's basically making running more 920 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,360 expensive and it's making the new technology inaccessible to a 921 00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:34,280 lot of runners, which is unfortunate. 922 00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:39,400 But you know, this is a capitalist society, right? 923 00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,640 These companies have a right to develop the stuff, and if people 924 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,000 buy them then they're going to keep making them. 925 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,800 So if they only last 100 miles, fine, that kind of sucks. 926 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,080 Maybe the companies could work on making them last a little bit 927 00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:57,800 longer, but often what makes them great is that they're so 928 00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:01,840 lightweight, which usually means a pretty minimalist outsole. 929 00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:06,880 So if that's what it is, but it helps you meet your goals, then 930 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:09,480 that's great. And if you're willing to, you 931 00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,920 know if it's worth that much to you to spend $500 on a racing 932 00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:17,000 shoe, then you know you're free to spend your money that way. 933 00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:21,600 But it is kind of sad that running, which used to be like a 934 00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:25,840 little more egalitarian, is kind of moving into the like 935 00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:30,760 equipment heavy realm like cycling or golf or other sports 936 00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:34,200 like that. I so buy or sell. 937 00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,280 I would buy. You'll buy. 938 00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:40,120 All right. You know what? 939 00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,200 I'm going to do what you did earlier and not say it till 940 00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:46,680 later and maybe pass, but I I'm probably not the best person 941 00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,760 because a lot of super shoes do last at or less than 100 miles 942 00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,280 because I'm so rough on them. Although a lot of shoes in 943 00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:54,560 general do that. That being said, I've had 944 00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:57,960 several super shoes that do last way longer and ironically those 945 00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,600 have been the ones like the Socket Endor from Pro 3. 946 00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,240 I've got like 110 miles on it and it's still totally fine and 947 00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:06,080 in usable. It's not. 948 00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:08,760 It doesn't have the same bounce it did at the start, but it's 949 00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,400 still totally usable and the outsole is fine. 950 00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,120 So, and that shoe is actually not, it's not one of the more 951 00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,400 expensive ones. Like you can find it on sale. 952 00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,840 It's like 225, right, versus some of the models that are like 953 00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:25,400 275, three hundred, 500. I don't have a problem with 954 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:27,960 shoes lasting less than 100 miles cause like, I'm kind of 955 00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:29,240 used to that. Personally. 956 00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:32,360 I do have an issue with people charging 500 bucks for a shoe 957 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:35,680 that's like only supposed to last for like, you know, a 958 00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:37,800 couple runs. And maybe I'm just to be honest 959 00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,440 with you, maybe I'm just upset that Adidas never sent me the 960 00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:42,520 Evo Pearl One and I didn't get a chance to trash it. 961 00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:44,800 Maybe I'm biased. Maybe I might have a different 962 00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:46,400 opinion if they send it to me for free. 963 00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:50,320 But I think even then I think to be honest with you, it probably 964 00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:53,280 that shoe would probably last like 3 miles for me and then it 965 00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:57,000 would come apart and be like, oh this is not worth $500. 966 00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:02,840 Like that's not fair. So yeah, I I like the continual 967 00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,240 improvement with super shoes. They are really cool. 968 00:51:05,240 --> 00:51:08,320 It's fun to use for racing. It's fun. 969 00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,440 It makes things like really exciting and it's cool. 970 00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:15,520 But I think from, like you said, the egalitarian point, like, it 971 00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:17,160 does really limit a lot of people. 972 00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,320 And yeah, you know, you could, you couldn't buy your way 973 00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,520 through a lot of stuff. Some of the models are getting 974 00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:26,800 insane and almost like exclusive. 975 00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:28,760 Like, I think it's kind of annoying that a lot of companies 976 00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:30,920 will be like, oh, we have this small drop and you got to pay 977 00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:32,640 500 bucks and only a couple people can get it. 978 00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:34,640 We're going to charge you 300 bucks and only a couple of 979 00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:36,440 people can get. It's like, you know, people want 980 00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:37,800 this. You know, they're going to buy 981 00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:39,880 it. Like, just provide the supply. 982 00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:41,360 People are going to buy this. You're going to make money. 983 00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,440 You'll have to wait and annoy people. 984 00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:48,040 So I'm kind of that's a whole. That's not what the question is. 985 00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:50,120 It's super shoes that last less than 100 miles. 986 00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:56,360 I'm until you can show me that we're seeing crazy crazy 987 00:51:56,360 --> 00:52:00,600 improvements across the board. Like you said I'm kind of a sell 988 00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:02,120 on this just because of the cost. 989 00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:04,440 If I'm paying that much I'm going to expect this to last 990 00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:07,840 some time at least, right. I don't want this to be a shoe 991 00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:12,560 that breaks down within 20 miles because to be honest for me my 992 00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,800 performance isn't worth that. Like to me the experience of the 993 00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,800 shoe, what I'm using it for, all those comfort, all the other 994 00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:21,360 factors. No, I don't have to just like 995 00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:26,360 drop another like mortgage on a new shoe is I is kind of 996 00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:29,400 important and I think it's a lot of these super shoes. 997 00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:32,480 You could still get miles out of them after you finish if they're 998 00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:35,200 durable enough. So the like I said, I'm keep 999 00:52:35,240 --> 00:52:39,000 like gushing about the endorphin Pro 3, but I'm using it for 1000 00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:42,120 still workouts and things when I have time because I enjoy it and 1001 00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,000 it's not a show I'm going to race in now, but it still has a 1002 00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:46,720 purpose and I can get things out of it. 1003 00:52:46,720 --> 00:52:49,320 I was lucky that it was sent to me for free, but I'm still going 1004 00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,440 to get miles out of it, right. So let me give a different 1005 00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,600 example of this. Shoe I actually bought was one 1006 00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:59,200 of the Puma racers actually bought all of them except for 1007 00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:03,960 the fast R like this shoe I spent like 200 plus bucks on and 1008 00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:05,360 I'm still going to get miles out of it. 1009 00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:07,280 And the Durability's actually been great. 1010 00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:09,440 So I'm going to keep using this even though it might not be 1011 00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:12,040 something I race in. It's something that I want to 1012 00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,040 get miles out of and get my miles my money's worth. 1013 00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:17,520 So I think from an economy standpoint, yeah, I'm kind of, 1014 00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:21,160 I'm kind of a sell on super user that lasts 100 miles unless you 1015 00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,160 can show me something that really blows things out of the 1016 00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:25,240 water. And then for me personally, it's 1017 00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:28,720 not super with it. That's what the whole team, by 1018 00:53:28,720 --> 00:53:32,680 the way, it's been like, Matt, do not buy the Evo Pro on eBay. 1019 00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:34,280 It's not worth it. And they don't have to tell me 1020 00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:36,040 because I'm like, I'm not interested like. 1021 00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:39,200 It's just I don't. Want to spend 1500 bucks? 1022 00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:41,040 This is how much it costs on eBay right now because yes, I 1023 00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:43,880 have looked. The ultimate irony, Matt, would 1024 00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:47,680 be if the Evo Pro ended up being like the shoe that you couldn't 1025 00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:51,440 destroy. It's actually the opposite, like 1026 00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,880 yeah, won't last is like 1000 miles on these and I can't kill 1027 00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:56,320 this. This is really frustrating. 1028 00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,040 I took a sand grinder. I can't do it. 1029 00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:00,840 No, that'd be hilarious. Great. 1030 00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:02,600 So, all right, I'm gonna sell on that. 1031 00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:06,720 All OK, Buy or sell. All running shoes should have a 1032 00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:10,600 wider toe box. I'm actually going to say sell 1033 00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:14,040 on that, even though I often complain that shoes should have 1034 00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:17,600 a wider toe box, because some shoes should have a wider toe 1035 00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:19,760 box. But some shoes, the toe box is 1036 00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,400 fine. And a toe box that's wide enough 1037 00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,920 for me might be way too wide for somebody else. 1038 00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:29,560 So I think all running shoes should be shaped like an actual 1039 00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:35,600 foot, which means nobody's foot is shaped like, you know, AV. 1040 00:54:37,720 --> 00:54:40,280 Yeah. So if you have a shoe that 1041 00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:44,560 significantly tapers in the toe box, no one's foot is shaped 1042 00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:48,240 like that, And it's going to cause all sorts of problems for 1043 00:54:48,240 --> 00:54:51,600 your feet, the function of the intrinsic muscles in your feet, 1044 00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:53,720 the function of your first MTP joint. 1045 00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:58,520 So I have a big problem with shoes that are tapered, and I 1046 00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:02,000 think shoes should be appropriately foot shaped. 1047 00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,200 But foot shaped for me is different than foot shaped for 1048 00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:07,160 you is different than somebody else. 1049 00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:11,800 So I would like shoes to be appropriately designed, but that 1050 00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,760 doesn't necessarily mean that all of them need to be wider 1051 00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:19,040 because too wide allows for foot translation in the shoe, which 1052 00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:24,160 can lead to pain, blisters, stability issues, so needs to 1053 00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:27,440 fit appropriately. I'm totally with you that I 1054 00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:29,360 think the correct so I'm a cell on this. 1055 00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:31,600 The correct turn that needs to be used is anatomic. 1056 00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:34,480 It doesn't need to be pointed, but it also doesn't need to be a 1057 00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:36,760 shoe that you're sliding around in, right? 1058 00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:38,120 It still needs to be able to fit. 1059 00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:42,080 The purpose of an upper is to be able to keep your foot securely 1060 00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,560 on the platform. That's its whole definition and 1061 00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:46,960 does that's what it's supposed to be. 1062 00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:50,920 If it's constricting your foot in a way that's that's that is 1063 00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:54,720 causing some kind of harm, be it pressure or blisters, it's the 1064 00:55:54,720 --> 00:55:57,440 same problem as if it's not securing your foot and you're 1065 00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,200 sliding around your and you're insecure. 1066 00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:03,080 So not every This is why and I got some hate for this where I 1067 00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:05,480 said that not everything needs to have a wider toe box in one 1068 00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:08,040 of our podcast or the one of the Monday shakeouts. 1069 00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,200 But yeah, it's because not everybody has a super wide foot. 1070 00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:14,040 People that have a cert of a wide foot, yes, that's why we 1071 00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:17,040 talk about shoes. This shoe has a wider fit, a 1072 00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:18,520 higher volume. We talk about that stuff. 1073 00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:20,960 But it doesn't mean every shoe needs to be like that because 1074 00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,680 our feet are so different. And that that is the challenge 1075 00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,720 of trying to find a shoe that works for you because every 1076 00:56:26,720 --> 00:56:30,240 company is designing shoes based on either a few people or a 1077 00:56:30,240 --> 00:56:33,360 massive average that you and I may not fit into. 1078 00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,760 Like here's the average, but we're over here, over here, you 1079 00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:40,000 know, So it's not everything needs to be the same. 1080 00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:43,080 Variability is good because people have different length 1081 00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,600 feet, they have different shape feet, they have different volume 1082 00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:47,200 feet. But having it be a little bit 1083 00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,920 more anatomic rather than pointed is key. 1084 00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:51,880 But it doesn't necessarily have to be super wide. 1085 00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:54,920 So I am a cell in that with an asterisk behind that going you 1086 00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:57,080 need, you know, we have to define these things better. 1087 00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:00,760 It's almost like people used to say like support was analogous 1088 00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:02,320 with how much cushion. It's like don't know, stop 1089 00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:05,080 saying that use the right term. It doesn't have, not everything 1090 00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:08,880 has to be wide just be a bit more anatomic and you don't need 1091 00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:12,720 a point in the middle of your like third like metatarsal like 1092 00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:15,560 or phalangi. All right. 1093 00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:22,640 So non carbon fiber plated shoes or non non carbon fiber plated 1094 00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,280 plates. Wow, I'm going to start over non 1095 00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:29,040 carbon fiber plated plates in performance shoes. 1096 00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:32,040 Either plastic glass fiber or fiberglass. 1097 00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:34,000 Don't yell at me for that. Nylon etcetera. 1098 00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:37,880 Buy or sell? I'm a solid buy on that and I'll 1099 00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:41,400 give several reasons. OK, first of all, a lot of 1100 00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:47,120 people think carbon is like this magical compound that is just 1101 00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:50,280 going to make you faster. And if a shoe has carbon plate 1102 00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:53,400 in it, it is the best. That is not true. 1103 00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:56,720 You know, we already talked about how some people prefer 1104 00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:59,600 like the endorphin speed which has a nylon plate to the pro 1105 00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:03,040 which has a carbon plate. So just the presence of carbon 1106 00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:06,840 plate in a shoe doesn't mean anything for how it's going to 1107 00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,280 work for you. And we also know that the 1108 00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:13,320 presence of the plate is actually not like the magic that 1109 00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:16,680 produces the improvements in running economy. 1110 00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:19,760 There have been some studies where, you know, they think that 1111 00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:23,520 the plate is maybe about a 1% of the 4%. 1112 00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:27,440 Yeah, at most of the 4% improvement in running economy. 1113 00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:31,120 But there were also studies where they cut the plate and 1114 00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:33,720 they didn't see a significant change in running economy. 1115 00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:38,800 So I, you know, I hear all the time like, oh, I've got to get a 1116 00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:41,640 carbon plated shoe that's, you know, that's going to make me 1117 00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:45,320 faster in my races. It's like not necessarily. 1118 00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:48,320 You've got to find one where like everything works for you, 1119 00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:50,720 not just the fact that it has carbon in it. 1120 00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:55,920 The other thing is carbon fiber can vary greatly in terms of how 1121 00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,480 it's produced, how it's laid up. Carbon's a great material 1122 00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:04,400 because it's very lightweight, it's stiff and you can use it in 1123 00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:06,800 shoes. It's very temperature resistant. 1124 00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:09,600 So whether it's like super cold or super hot, it's still going 1125 00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:13,840 to perform the same. But there is a huge variation in 1126 00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:16,760 the quality of carbon. So you don't. 1127 00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:21,040 And like we really have no idea what kind of carbon is in these 1128 00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:24,920 various shoes. So the other thing is stiffer is 1129 00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:27,720 not better. Like there is a sweet spot for 1130 00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:30,520 stiffness. So some people will find a 1131 00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:33,320 particular carbon plated shoe too stiff for them. 1132 00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:37,360 One maybe it's because the plate itself is too stiff, or how the 1133 00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,600 plate bends doesn't line up with their foot, or just the 1134 00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:43,400 combination of the plate and the midsole and the geometry don't 1135 00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:47,200 work for them. But stiffer is not better when 1136 00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:49,720 it comes to shoes. And again, I'll go back to 1137 00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:51,960 cycling. So you know, 20 years ago 1138 00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:56,280 cycling shoes were primarily made of like nylon or nylon 1139 00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:59,320 soles. And you know now all of the high 1140 00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:00,920 end shoes are made of carbon soles. 1141 01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:04,880 There's a ton of cyclists, especially ones who grew up 1142 01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:09,160 racing with nylon shoes, that find these carbon soled shoes 1143 01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:11,920 too stiff. So there are actually companies 1144 01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:16,160 that will make a high end shoe with a nylon sole, because 1145 01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:20,640 people want that and people feel like they perform better with a 1146 01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:22,760 shoe that has a little more flex in it. 1147 01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:26,440 Even though you really don't want your cycling shoe to flex 1148 01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:29,440 very much, but just that small amount of flex is more 1149 01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:32,600 comfortable. So again, carbon is not a 1150 01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:36,600 magical material. You might find that a nylon 1151 01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:40,680 plated shoe or a plastic or fiberglass plated shoe feels 1152 01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:44,080 much better. It's more comfortable, you run 1153 01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:47,280 faster in it. So don't I. 1154 01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:51,320 You only take one thing out. Out of all the things I just 1155 01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:54,120 said about carbon fiber, it's that carbon isn't magical. 1156 01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:57,560 The presence of a carbon plate doesn't make a shoe better. 1157 01:00:57,760 --> 01:00:59,760 There's so many other things that go into it. 1158 01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:04,480 So definitely a buy on the non carbon fiber plates and 1159 01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:07,560 performance shoes. I I will say bye, but I do have 1160 01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:10,680 a caveat for all the shoe company marketing teams out 1161 01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:12,920 there. Every time you say the carbon 1162 01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:15,560 fiber plate is what makes the shoe faster, a small baby animal 1163 01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:16,960 dies. So stop saying that. 1164 01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,080 It's not true, OK? I'm just kidding. 1165 01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:21,960 That's morbid and horrible, but it drives me insane. 1166 01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:24,120 We have plenty of evidence right now. 1167 01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:27,960 So yes, it's the the carbon, Yes, as Andrew mentioned, it's 1168 01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:30,000 it's great. It's temperature resistant. 1169 01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:33,360 It's available. It's, you know, you can mold it 1170 01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:36,880 in certain ways, but it's not the actual plate that's doing 1171 01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:38,560 these things by itself. And we're discovering there's 1172 01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:41,680 actually other factors to what is the geometry? 1173 01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:43,720 Like, how was the plate interacting with the midsole? 1174 01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:46,800 And then in some cave cases, even your favorite Vapor Fly 1175 01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:49,360 cutting the plate doesn't affect the efficiency. 1176 01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:52,240 Thank you, Laura Healey. Shout out to your study on that. 1177 01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:54,840 So it's way more complicated than that. 1178 01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:56,960 I've gotten into so many Internet arguments which have 1179 01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:59,280 taught me a lot about not getting into Internet arguments 1180 01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:02,520 about this, that again, the plates add stiffness to the 1181 01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:05,360 shoe, how you respond to it. This is a study by my clothes at 1182 01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:08,640 all that was done with Saucony and helped the be the kind of 1183 01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:12,080 the reason between the speed and pro as we talked about. 1184 01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:14,760 Some people prefer the speed. Part of that might be the 1185 01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:17,080 stiffness, the fact that some people actually do better with a 1186 01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:20,680 little more flexibility. I prefer running faster in the 1187 01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:23,920 Cyclone 2 / a carbon plated chew because I, David and I might 1188 01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:25,520 like that a little bit more flexibility. 1189 01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:28,960 Other people Andrea likes the alpha fly one right. 1190 01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:31,040 She likes that. You know it's everybody's going 1191 01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:34,480 to be a little bit different. But just saying oh, why this Zoo 1192 01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:38,240 Super is because the carbon plate is totally BS You know 1193 01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:43,400 we're seeing stuff with the what what is the the Rebellion Pro 2 1194 01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:45,560 and one did not have a carbon plate. 1195 01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:48,840 Correct. It was it's like carbon infused 1196 01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:50,320 or something like that. It's not fully. 1197 01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:52,320 Yeah. So like we have plenty of other 1198 01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:54,240 things coming out where that's not the only thing and it's 1199 01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:57,880 still a crazy good shoe. So it's still that like super 1200 01:02:57,880 --> 01:02:59,840 suit whatever the next level of super Ultra shoe. 1201 01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:01,680 Super, I don't know super duper shoe. 1202 01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:04,640 Can I coin that super duper shoe. 1203 01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:08,640 I think variability is good because again we've talked about 1204 01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:09,720 this. Different people are going to 1205 01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:12,440 respond to different things. Carbon seems to be widely 1206 01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:14,200 available. It seems to be as you said it 1207 01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:17,480 can be, it's temperature resistant, but the quality that 1208 01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:19,920 you're getting, how you're using it can vary and it might be good 1209 01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,920 to have a couple other things because people might work better 1210 01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:25,560 with those things. So it's not the end all be all 1211 01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:28,520 and especially as you mentioned because it's not one of the 1212 01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:31,120 primary predictors of the economy improvement in the shoes 1213 01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:33,800 like the foams tend to be some of the biggest things. 1214 01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:36,560 I think we need to make sure we're putting our focus in the 1215 01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:39,000 right place. But also when I say that mean 1216 01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:41,960 need to think about geometries, do you think about all the other 1217 01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:44,160 factors that go into us and not just, oh, there's a carbon fire 1218 01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:45,800 plate there because there's plenty of shoes that with carbon 1219 01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:48,400 plates that absolutely suck and feel terrible. 1220 01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:51,840 So yeah, I'm definitely a buy for this. 1221 01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:56,480 I think it would be nice if you know, and we've certainly talked 1222 01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:59,480 about this on the site and in podcast, but if people thought 1223 01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:05,400 of plates as just a means of stiffening the shoe, not as a 1224 01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:10,240 magic wand, they're just one way to provide stiffness to often a 1225 01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:13,760 very high volume of unstable foam. 1226 01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:15,200 Right. Which is totally fair. 1227 01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:18,200 Like, I'm not, I'm not at all saying you don't need carbon 1228 01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:20,440 plates. I am saying if you're going to 1229 01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:23,960 design A shoe like, for example, the alpha fly, Can you imagine 1230 01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:26,120 the alpha fly without a plate like that? 1231 01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:27,400 It would be, it would fall apart. 1232 01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:28,920 There's no way. With the amount of geometry 1233 01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:30,880 that's that's what's creating the stiffness that actually 1234 01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:32,280 probably holds the shoe together. 1235 01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:34,040 So not saying they're not required. 1236 01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:39,520 I'm saying the material has some room for improvements And are 1237 01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:41,480 they important to maintain the integrity of the shoe? 1238 01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:42,960 Yes. Is that what's actually giving 1239 01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:45,320 you the bounce in the quote? UN quote speed relates the 1240 01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:48,360 economy improvements? No, it's actually the 1241 01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:51,000 combination of all the factors. But one of the biggest variables 1242 01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:54,520 is actually not the plate. So I'm all for trying other 1243 01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:57,360 things, seeing how they go, experimenting because that's 1244 01:04:57,360 --> 01:04:59,880 what creates progress. Just using the same thing 1245 01:04:59,880 --> 01:05:02,440 doesn't create progress. So that's me. 1246 01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:05,280 All right. We are going to end with a final 1247 01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:08,760 question that I know we're going to disagree on because we talked 1248 01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:11,240 about this. So we're going to talk about 1249 01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:14,040 alpha fly one versus alpha fly 3. 1250 01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:17,520 Which one is better, slash buy or sell Andrea? 1251 01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:19,640 I'll let you go first because this is dear Dear to your heart, 1252 01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:22,480 because apparently you disagreed with my my comparison review. 1253 01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:27,560 So this question came up because Matt did his alpha fly one 1254 01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:30,240 versus alpha fly three comparison video on YouTube. 1255 01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:34,320 And after I watched it, I sent him a message telling him that I 1256 01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:38,800 disagreed with pretty much everything he said, which is 1257 01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:42,240 good. That's, you know, we all agreed, 1258 01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:44,560 yeah, right, That's the whole. Point is, that's what creates 1259 01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:47,520 more interesting content. You should do like a rebuttal 1260 01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:49,000 video. I'll be like he's wrong. 1261 01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:50,360 Let me tell you what's true. No, just. 1262 01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:52,280 Kidding. Well, it would be funny if I did 1263 01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:55,720 a rebuttal video where like I was overlaid on your video and 1264 01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:56,560 I'm. Oh, we should. 1265 01:05:57,240 --> 01:06:02,480 Oh, we should totally do that. Bach will have to help me 1266 01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:03,920 because I certainly don't be awesome. 1267 01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:08,480 Pause. I can't believe this idiot said 1268 01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:09,120 that. I was kidding. 1269 01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:15,040 Yeah, so I definitely choose. I'll fly one over. 1270 01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:19,080 I'll fly 3 and I will explain why. 1271 01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:21,960 And of course this has to do. Matt and I have very different 1272 01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:25,680 mechanics. I land at my midfoot, Matt 1273 01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:29,960 definitely doesn't. And the alpha fly one. 1274 01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:34,440 The location of those Air Zoom units is basically like right 1275 01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:37,800 where I land. So the shoe, and I'm sure that 1276 01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:39,640 if you he'll strike and I'll fly one. 1277 01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:42,960 It feels like a completely different shoe than it feels to 1278 01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:45,440 me. But because I land right on 1279 01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:49,440 those Airzoom units, it just feels like a rocket ship that 1280 01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:54,480 like just shoots me forward. It is hands down the fastest 1281 01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:59,280 super shoe I've ever run in and because of that I will never run 1282 01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:02,520 a marathon and it's too aggressive, like it's too much 1283 01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:05,800 for me to control for 26.2 miles. 1284 01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:09,280 I've used it for up to 1/2 marathon and it was great, but I 1285 01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:11,400 definitely wouldn't take it any longer. 1286 01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:16,760 So the Alphafly one I it's fast. I love it. 1287 01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:20,960 Like every time I run in it like whatever my like, oh, this feels 1288 01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:25,600 like, you know, 625 pace and I'm doing 615 pace and like it's 1289 01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:32,720 just reliably faster for me. But I just it's too aggressive 1290 01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:34,480 to take for really long distances. 1291 01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:40,760 So alpha fly 3, because one, it's gone from a 4mm drop in 1292 01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:45,760 version 1 to 8mm in version three and two, they encapsulated 1293 01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:49,640 those Airzoom units. I just don't get that same like 1294 01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:53,200 rocket ship feeling from landing on the airzoom units in the 1295 01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:57,880 three like I do in the one. And it also feels like the heel 1296 01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:01,840 just slightly gets in the way in version 3, whereas in the one 1297 01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:04,960 like it could not be there at all and I wouldn't notice. 1298 01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:07,440 You know I'm not landing there one bit. 1299 01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:14,400 So Alphafly 3 feels a little slower but it still feels like I 1300 01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:17,439 also wouldn't use Alpha Fly Three in a marathon because even 1301 01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:20,840 though it feels less aggressive than one, it still feels too 1302 01:08:20,840 --> 01:08:25,240 aggressive because of the Airzoom units to use for 26.2. 1303 01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:30,319 So it's it all has to do with the difference in our mechanics. 1304 01:08:30,319 --> 01:08:34,000 Why I disagree with what Matt said because of course he found 1305 01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:36,399 I'll fly three much more aggressive and I'll let him 1306 01:08:36,399 --> 01:08:41,080 explain why. But for me the one is like the 1307 01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:45,040 best Nike shoe that's ever been. You know it's it's my favorite 1308 01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:47,640 super shoe. Like I would be interesting to 1309 01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:51,760 do metabolic efficiency testing in it to see like how much more 1310 01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:55,680 efficient I am than in other shoes that I would race in 1311 01:08:56,040 --> 01:09:00,319 because I'm sure it's large just based on the the improvement in 1312 01:09:00,319 --> 01:09:02,399 my pace at various effort levels. 1313 01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:08,000 So there's my answer, Matt. What's yours? 1314 01:09:08,279 --> 01:09:11,160 So obviously mine is obviously the opposite where I I think I 1315 01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:13,279 was able to appreciate the alpha fly one. 1316 01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:16,479 But my mechanics, and for those who have watched this enough 1317 01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:19,560 based on my wear patterns, I mean, it's not my wear patterns. 1318 01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:21,600 Wear patterns are useless and you shouldn't pay attention to 1319 01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:22,840 them. It's based on biomechanical 1320 01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:27,040 videos and watching this stuff that I will crush the heel. 1321 01:09:27,279 --> 01:09:31,160 And so the first alpha fly, did I say favor fly or alpha fly? 1322 01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:34,600 Alpha fly. The first alpha fly being the 1323 01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:37,479 lower drop, I could appreciate it and it was actually really 1324 01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:40,160 comfortable to run at like moderate paces and even easy 1325 01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:43,120 paces, but running faster. When I really compress that heel 1326 01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:45,920 drop down, it felt like a negative drop shoe for me. 1327 01:09:46,279 --> 01:09:49,560 And so it felt like I had to climb out of it to get onto the 1328 01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:51,960 air pods and get off. And I know people who probably 1329 01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:54,080 land farther forward, you're probably like, this is the 1330 01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:56,040 greatest shoe. And I totally understand why 1331 01:09:56,040 --> 01:09:59,440 Andrea likes that shoe. From my mechanics, I did not 1332 01:09:59,440 --> 01:10:01,960 feel like it had the aggressiveness that I wanted, 1333 01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:03,960 which is why I never raced in it. 1334 01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:06,800 I did a couple workouts in it and I actually got a pair that I 1335 01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:10,200 continue to do stuff in up to 100 miles, which did great, but 1336 01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:12,520 it was just not something I was ever going to reach for just 1337 01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:15,240 because it didn't have that aggressiveness that I wanted 1338 01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:17,280 that I know a lot of other people felt based on the 1339 01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:19,760 mechanics. Version three was totally 1340 01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:22,160 different. The increased drop, what feels 1341 01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:25,520 like a much lighter shoe. The way I load the forefoot, it 1342 01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:28,560 tends to work a lot better. So I'm either on my heel or when 1343 01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:30,920 I start picking up the pace initially I will get up on my 1344 01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:32,840 forefoot. I don't usually tend to touch 1345 01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:37,600 the mid foot as much so where how that shoe is designed tends 1346 01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:39,800 to work really well. I can load the heel very well 1347 01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:42,280 and not feel like it like bottoms out into a negative drop 1348 01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:44,880 shoe and it but it is very aggressive. 1349 01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:47,400 I will agree with Andrew that I don't know if I would wear it 1350 01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:50,000 for a marathon. I think half might be my Max. 1351 01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:52,040 Not because there's not enough Cushing but I don't know if I 1352 01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:55,640 can control that shoe. When it gets past when I fatigue 1353 01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:58,080 I I'll probably test it out, although I have zero interest in 1354 01:10:58,080 --> 01:11:00,960 doing marathons ever again. I think the Max, what I'd like 1355 01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:03,920 to do was 1/2 and just 'cause I liked being able to somewhat 1356 01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:07,000 walk the next day, but that's just a personal preference. 1357 01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:12,040 So yeah, I just found it had way more balance and I think it's 1358 01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:14,560 because how I'm loading it and because I also appreciate it 1359 01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:18,480 being lighter as well. But yeah, I really think we need 1360 01:11:18,480 --> 01:11:23,680 to have a rebuttal video. I feel like that would be fun. 1361 01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:27,880 Yeah. It would just be fun to have us 1362 01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:30,200 do that for each other when you, like, totally disagree. 1363 01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:31,720 Like we should get BJ on here like you. 1364 01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:34,200 You two should like rebuttal video each other with the 1365 01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:36,880 rebellion flash two and things like that versus one. 1366 01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:39,920 That'd be awesome. But it also is another 1367 01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:42,920 encouraging thing that again, we we get a lot of comments be 1368 01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:44,520 like, Oh well, this shoe feels like this. 1369 01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:47,120 It's like, I totally understand why you say that based on how 1370 01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:48,600 you're kind of describing your mechanics. 1371 01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:52,120 We all describe the shoe based on how we're loading it. 1372 01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:54,680 We try to think about how the people might do that, but that's 1373 01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:57,840 why we try to have a couple reviewers on every shoe that are 1374 01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:01,880 different because we know that perception of something under 1375 01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:03,560 your foot is actually very, very individual. 1376 01:12:03,560 --> 01:12:06,200 We do our best to describe it, but there's limitations to that. 1377 01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:09,320 So if you find one of us that you tend to match best with, 1378 01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:11,840 follow that person because that's probably who's going to 1379 01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:14,440 be the most similar reaction to you. 1380 01:12:14,440 --> 01:12:19,000 So I I totally get it, but that was just how I felt about the 1381 01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:22,040 two of them. So let's get that rebuttal video 1382 01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:24,480 going. So we, we appreciate you 1383 01:12:24,480 --> 01:12:27,160 following us along for another buy and sell episode that I had. 1384 01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:29,680 AI don't know about you Andrea, but I had a blast with this and 1385 01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:30,200 this was really. Fun. 1386 01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:32,200 Yeah, this was fun. Yeah, it's also really good. 1387 01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:35,000 We always if you have any buy or sell topics for us, please let 1388 01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:36,680 us know because we will definitely keep doing these. 1389 01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:39,760 And please, please, please comment below on whatever 1390 01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:42,920 platform that you're that you're viewing on or listening on to be 1391 01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:44,960 what you think because we actually really, really care 1392 01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:46,760 what you think because that's part of adding to this 1393 01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:49,320 conversation, helping all of us learn and think about this 1394 01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:51,160 stuff. As always, you can find us on 1395 01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:53,320 several different areas. We were also obviously you've 1396 01:12:53,320 --> 01:12:56,800 got the podcast on Spotify, iTunes, a different the podcast 1397 01:12:56,920 --> 01:12:59,160 air. We do upload this to YouTube so 1398 01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:01,840 you can actually see us and see all my weird facial expressions 1399 01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:04,880 that Bach is now using for all the like thumbnails for the 1400 01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:09,720 videos. I I do respect him so much. 1401 01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:11,720 He actually goes through and finds like where's that weird, 1402 01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:14,000 the weirdest face that Matt makes this entire time That's 1403 01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:16,040 going to be the and he picks the best ones. 1404 01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:19,200 It's great. Tell him at what time stamp you 1405 01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:20,600 just made that face. So yeah. 1406 01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:21,840 OK, got it. Save him some work. 1407 01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:26,360 Yes. 4:00 So we also have tons of other social media channels, 1408 01:13:26,360 --> 01:13:30,800 as always, be it Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, X, whatever, 1409 01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:33,360 whatever you can find it. LinkedIn, you can find us on all 1410 01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:34,680 those. We're always put in obviously 1411 01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:35,960 the biggest areas of the website. 1412 01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:37,920 You can find all of our new content out there. 1413 01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:40,480 We appreciate you listening, appreciate your feedback, and 1414 01:13:40,480 --> 01:13:41,280 hope you have a great run.