1 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,320 Hey everyone, and welcome to the Doctors Running podcast where 2 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,280 we, a group of doctors, physical therapy, talk about the art and 3 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:15,600 the science. The things that we put on our 4 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:19,680 feet today is Andrea and I, and we're going to have a between 2 5 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:21,400 shoes podcast. We're going to talk about some 6 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,920 shoes that ironically, I mean, one of them, I don't know. 7 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,880 One of them I think we actually agree on, but things may have 8 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:29,520 changed. So we're hoping, as always, that 9 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:31,800 we disagree and you can find out a little bit more about where 10 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,280 we're coming from so that you can understand what to look for 11 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:36,800 for yourself as an individual. Right? 12 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:38,240 Everybody has different experiences. 13 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,480 Our job today is to help explore those differences from our own 14 00:00:41,480 --> 00:00:43,880 experiences and then to help you learn some things that maybe you 15 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:45,720 can apply to your own experiences. 16 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,400 As always though, we're going to start off with our In for 17 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:50,720 Testing section that's sponsored by Scratch Labs. 18 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,440 And Andrea, what should you have in for testing right now? 19 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:58,400 Well, today I did my first Test run in the Diadora Mesafando 20 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,240 Spike. Have you run in yours yet? 21 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,520 I've walked around in it. My Achilles has actually gotten 22 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,720 just good enough where I actually think I could try a 23 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:07,320 track workout in spikes, but not yet. 24 00:01:07,320 --> 00:01:10,840 All right, I'm about ready to. So this is their mid distance 25 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,800 spike. They say it's for 800 to 10K. 26 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,680 It's got their Enema PBX midsole in it. 27 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:24,200 It's 5.7 oz and a men size 9. I have kind of been taking a 28 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,880 break from the track between indoor and outdoor seasons. 29 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,720 Got back on the track last week and today I just used these for 30 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,880 some strides because of course, when you haven't been running in 31 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,720 spikes for a little bit, you don't just want to jump back 32 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,080 into a full workout in them. So they felt pretty good. 33 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,200 I'm not sure that I'm going to like them for the 800, but I 34 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,680 might like them for the mile. They feel a little bit too 35 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,800 cushioned, if you will, for an 800 and like for sprinting. 36 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,280 But I could definitely see using these for a mile or if I was 37 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:00,560 ever crazy enough to do like a track 5K or 10K, which I 38 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:02,360 definitely don't think that I would be. 39 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,320 I would consider using these. They've got a really sharp toe 40 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,640 spring, as you can see, so they really put you up on your toes 41 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,000 and that typically works with my running style. 42 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,240 But I just I've never gotten along with spikes that are this 43 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:24,200 severe with their toe spring. My go to spike is the Nike 44 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,040 victory to spike and it doesn't really have a sharp rocker at 45 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:29,920 all, but it's got those air pods up front. 46 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,080 So I'm going to give them a, you know, fighting chance. 47 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,160 I'll test them with some mile and 800 pace intervals in the 48 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:41,680 next few weeks, but the V2 spike is definitely still my favorite 49 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,480 so far. I I will say back back in 50 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,360 college, I did actually run 5 mostly 5K10 KS and only wore 51 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,160 spikes. And I had a pair of the original 52 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,240 Brooks the wire, which varies somewhat very aggressive toe 53 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,680 spray. And I found I could not I could 54 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,320 not run like 15 hundreds and didn't really have a kick at the 55 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,080 end of five KS. But like the 10K you just a 56 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,200 little bit more there for a lot of track spikes. 57 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,120 So like especially in that day and age that toe spring a little 58 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,880 bit extra there was great for longer distance struggled quite 59 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:11,920 a bit with the shorter. Stuff yeah, and that's 60 00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:13,800 definitely what I felt today on my stride. 61 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,240 So yeah, we'll we'll see. It could be a great, you know, 62 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,840 it more of a true mid to long distance spike rather than like 63 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,440 throwing the 800 in there too. The other issue I've been 64 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:29,720 getting miles on is the Hoka Skyward X2, which I know you're 65 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,760 also running in. I actually really liked the 66 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:37,640 original Skyward XI, found it heavy and a little clunky, but 67 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,040 it was nice for just like shuffling miles. 68 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:44,120 This is actually a really nice upgrade on the original version. 69 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,600 It's lighter I think. I can't remember the official 70 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,560 specs, but you mentioned your pair is about 1/2 an ounce 71 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:52,800 lighter, right? Yeah, than the previous version, 72 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,000 yeah. The foam feels a little more 73 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,920 resilient. It's definitely it has a less 74 00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:02,680 dense bouncier feel to it which I like. 75 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,640 The agreed. The only thing that is keeping 76 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,200 me from running longer in it is like mini Hokas. 77 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,920 It's pretty tight across the toe box and low volume and I 78 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,640 definitely feel some pinching on my first and 5th MTPS and a 79 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:19,680 little bit of pinching on top of my big toe. 80 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:24,480 So my runs have been like 3 to 4 miles each in this shoe and I 81 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,240 probably wouldn't want to take it longer than that just because 82 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:31,440 of foot discomfort. But definitely a nice foam 83 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:36,000 upgrade and the weight improvement is also noticeable. 84 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:38,680 So my I don't know if this is correct because I remember 85 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,640 getting something different not so long ago, but my measuring my 86 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:45,680 pair right now, my size 10 is 10.3 oz or about 290 grams. 87 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,000 That is significantly lighter. I can't remember what I 88 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,480 originally got the original 1 on, but yeah, that's a lot 89 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:52,960 lighter. That's really solid, especially 90 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,720 for how much minsol. But now they did cut they 91 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:57,960 actually decreased the stack guide I think by 2mm. 92 00:04:57,960 --> 00:04:59,560 So I think it was totally worth it. 93 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:02,120 And I would agree great for training runs here. 94 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,080 I've already got 70 miles on my pair. 95 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,800 I've just really enjoyed it. Like wow, I didn't expect like 96 00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:11,040 that toe box, man, it really comes in and part of it was I 97 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,440 found myself slipping. So when I locked my heel in, 98 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,000 which I haven't had to do. It's gotten better, but I have 99 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,600 definitely had several toe blisters from this shoe. 100 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,840 Everything else has been has been really solid, but man, just 101 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,320 blister city for sure in that 4/4. 102 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,360 So the exact same experience. And I know that the skyward X 103 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:32,280 comes in a wide so I wonder if that would take care of our 104 00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:35,280 problem. But often I find that wide shoes 105 00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:38,600 aren't actually wider, they just make the toe box higher volume. 106 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,880 And I definitely need the skyward to be wider in the 107 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:42,600 forefoot. Yeah. 108 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,360 Yeah, I think it's often times. And so there's actually a 109 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:46,480 difference. I don't know if this is still 110 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,160 the same, but back not too long ago when I was ordering stuff 111 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,160 from Japan, Japan lasts their shapes. 112 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,440 If they did a wide, the forefoot was the major thing that got 113 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:58,600 wider. the US often times will make the midfoot heel wider, but 114 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,320 not a specific part of the shoe. So that's why I've always had to 115 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,800 say with wides here because often times just like you, I'm 116 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:05,160 like give me a little more room in the forefoot. 117 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,680 But then when I've tried it, it's been like, well, now this 118 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,320 is baggy because it don't actually have like a high volume 119 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:11,760 wide foot. I just want more room in the 120 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,160 forefoot. So now I've got to like I'm 121 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,560 sliding around. So I think if you have a higher 122 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,480 volume foot, the wide might be good. 123 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,680 The toe box might just be what it is. 124 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,160 So it is what it is. Yeah. 125 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,280 Well. Thanks Hoka, I guess it is 126 00:06:26,280 --> 00:06:28,760 better than the original. It is, yeah. 127 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,440 Just if Hoka opened up the toe box of their shoes just a little 128 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,280 bit, there would be so many shoes of theirs that would be on 129 00:06:35,280 --> 00:06:38,320 my favorites list. Yeah, that's all it took to 130 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:39,160 ruin. Wow. 131 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:40,560 Sorry. All right. 132 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:42,520 Anything else? That you had. 133 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:47,080 I know you didn't get these yet. But I have a whole tons of bot 134 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:51,920 stuff just came in and everybody on the like Midwest, East Coast 135 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,720 gets everything. David and I oftentimes in the 136 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:56,640 West Coast are the last people to get things. 137 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:58,040 So we're just like, that looks cool. 138 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,040 So we're like we're living vicariously through you. 139 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,040 So. I came home to a tower of 140 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:07,440 Saucony boxes on my port on Friday so I got the Endorphin 141 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,000 Elite 3. Deb, you tried it yet? 142 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,360 I've walked around in it. I I'd already done my run on 143 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,240 Friday. I didn't run yesterday and had 144 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,240 my track workout today. So no got it. 145 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,320 But look at this nice squared off toe box. 146 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,640 This shoe is so comfortable walking around. 147 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:25,320 I mean comfortable in terms of fit. 148 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,680 It is wild. I actually have not had like a 149 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,840 walking around in a shoe experience like I did in the 150 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,440 shoe since the original vapor fly. 151 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,320 Like when I got the vapor fly, I was like like, wow, this is a 152 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,160 different shoe. Like this shoe feels like I'm on 153 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,880 like a Pogo stick. That's how I feel walking around 154 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:48,800 the shoe. I cannot wait to run in it 155 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,360 because I know the fits going to be comfortable because of this 156 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:56,360 beautiful toe box. It's so bouncy, like it's 157 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,680 ridiculously bouncy just walking around the house. 158 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:05,160 So I'm I'll let you guys know how it feels, but I have pretty 159 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:09,280 high hopes for the shoe. I feel like that's that's high 160 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,400 praise in and of itself. Obviously got to run it, but 161 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:13,960 like especially with now that back in the day, the vapor 162 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:15,680 flight like there was nothing like that. 163 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,760 In today's age, every company has a super shoe and then you 164 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,480 and I especially we spend so much time. 165 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,040 I wonder how sometimes I wonder how much we get desensitized. 166 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,000 So to be like, have something that OK, now I'm really excited. 167 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,800 Let's see what happens. The last the last version was so 168 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,880 bouncy and unstable, even though tactically it was loudly biased. 169 00:08:36,159 --> 00:08:38,159 I just couldn't. I managed to get through 100 170 00:08:38,159 --> 00:08:40,080 miles, but I, I never raced in it cuz I'm like, I just can't. 171 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,360 Yeah, I just, it was, I was stubborn enough to want to like 172 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,960 just keep going, but it just never worked for me even after 173 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:47,840 100 miles. But I'm really curious to see 174 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:48,960 what happens with this new stuff. 175 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,480 But Endorphin Elite 2 was David's favorite shoe for a 176 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:54,000 while, right? So it was. 177 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:55,720 Yeah. Interesting hearing his 178 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,760 comparisons. Yeah, so you might hate it. 179 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:02,560 So we'll see what happens. I got two other shoes from 180 00:09:02,560 --> 00:09:07,800 Saucony, so another new release of theirs is the Paramount Max, 181 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,360 which look at this shoe, it is a beast. 182 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:16,080 Yeah, I looked up the specs. I don't. 183 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:17,040 Know. I guess they weren't kidding on 184 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:18,960 the name. Yeah, I don't have the specs 185 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,760 pulled up any. I think the heels definitely 186 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:25,280 over 40. I think it's like 46 or 43 maybe 187 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:30,640 this shoe all so this shoe has Increderone, which is the same 188 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,320 material that Endorphin Elite 3 has. 189 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:39,000 This shoe similarly feels very soft, not quite as bouncy as 190 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,600 Endorphin Elite three. I'm sure that they're using a 191 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:45,120 slightly different makeup of Increderon. 192 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,680 My first impression just walking around in it is this feels like 193 00:09:50,680 --> 00:09:55,720 just a massive shoe. I'm not sure how much I'm I will 194 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,400 reserve judgement until I actually run in it, but this is 195 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,160 like I have so many shoes in my house and this is clearly like 196 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:07,440 the largest shoe that I own. Even compared to the Skyward X. 197 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:13,280 Yes, look at that. I mean like look at the heel of 198 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:19,840 that versus it's very wide. Look at that wide base. 199 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,640 Yeah. So this could, I'm guessing this 200 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:27,440 is probably going to end up feeling somewhat stable neutral 201 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:32,360 as long as the foam isn't too soft, just because of how wide 202 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,320 it is. I mean, that's a really wide 203 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,760 rear foot. It doesn't taper much here and 204 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,880 then it's just insanely wide in the forefoot. 205 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,120 So we'll see if it feels comfortable. 206 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,000 A lot of socket issues. I get kind of a similar MTP 207 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,680 pinching that I do in Hokas and I didn't feel it walking around 208 00:10:51,680 --> 00:10:55,120 in these. So excited to test those. 209 00:10:55,800 --> 00:11:00,400 And then the last one that came in my Saucony tower is the 210 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:07,520 Triumph 24. Yeah, this shoe has incredible 211 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:11,040 locks. Which is their is that Eva or 212 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:12,360 TP? I can't remember. 213 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:13,880 They probably don't. Need. 214 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:19,120 Ideas. Yeah, no, similarly, this shoe 215 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:23,160 feels ridiculously soft, like just walking around. 216 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,600 I kind of have a feeling it's going to be too soft for me. 217 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:31,440 It's so soft I would not want to walk in it because of how much 218 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,600 the heel compresses just walking around. 219 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:41,240 OK, I might it might be no per this I believe it is an ATPU. 220 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:47,840 OK, Yeah, it's so it's softer than Incredirun and and this 221 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,280 shoe feels softer than Paramount Max just walking around. 222 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:55,360 And of course, shoes feel 100% different walking than running. 223 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:59,280 So if the forefoot is a little bit firmer, I might end up 224 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,760 liking the shoe or Paramount Max. 225 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,760 But they're both super, super soft. 226 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:09,000 This toe box is definitely a little tighter than Paramount 227 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,440 Max. You can see it's lower volume. 228 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,480 So might give me kind of my typical Saucony fit issue, but 229 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:19,240 hopefully not. So yeah, lots of lots of 230 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,200 exciting new shoes to test. I'm going. 231 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,680 To call, call Bach out because the the triumph is one thing. 232 00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:27,160 Bach and I, obviously it's the stability. 233 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,480 People are really excited because the the new hurricane 234 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,480 came out, which I believe the hurricane also has incredible 235 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,800 locks. And Bach was like on on Friday. 236 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:34,960 He's like, Matt, have you gotten any? 237 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:36,320 I'm like, no, I haven't gotten anything yet. 238 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,440 He goes, this might be the stability shoe of the year. 239 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,480 And I'm like, OK, now I'm really excited to see what happens. 240 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,480 But he's like, I'm not sure yet if it's too soft for stability 241 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,320 shoes. So yeah, Sockety's doing the the 242 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,640 foams. They're doing some wild stuff it 243 00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:53,280 looks like. So I'm very curious to see what 244 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,240 happens this year. Yeah. 245 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,840 So, yeah. And it we are definitely in a 246 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,520 transition period where companies are done like 247 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:05,440 promoting their Peeba midsole shoes as their flagship shoes or 248 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,680 top of the line shoes and really getting more creative with these 249 00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:15,080 super critical TPU or TPEE. So we're entering a new phase of 250 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:17,640 running shoe technology, which is really exciting. 251 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:19,760 Yep, this should be really exciting. 252 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,080 Well, I don't actually have that much to add because to be 253 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,080 honest, the shoes that you and I are going to discuss in just a 254 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,160 second are similar to what I'm running in. 255 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,000 The only exception other than the Skyward X2, which we talked 256 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:31,520 about, I've got a ton of miles on it. 257 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,360 I'm hoping to get to 100 miles and I'm hoping this outsole 258 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:35,480 lasts. So far, so good. 259 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,680 The only other one that I'm still getting miles on that's 260 00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:43,120 holding up really well is the 361 Flame 5, which as I've 261 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,200 broken this in, it's definitely not the lightish like racer out 262 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:47,480 there. This has always been there more 263 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,320 kind of racer trainer shoe where you can use it for workouts. 264 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,600 So it's got the durability. Durability is this. 265 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,080 There's no dense. I've got like 40 ish miles on my 266 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:59,000 pair and I have not taken anything off this outsole. 267 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,280 Like this thing is made of like steel. 268 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,680 It's not actually but the more I break it in I'm. 269 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,160 My only issue with this shoe is the heel counter is so hard and 270 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,440 unprotected that it does leave me with some unirritated 271 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,640 Achilles after every time. But man this is the closest 272 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:15,600 thing to a mild stability racer out there. 273 00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:18,080 Like it's noticeable. It's not like, oh, this is like 274 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,720 stable neutral. The plate and the foam comes up 275 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:23,800 enough. I'm like I feel it in my arch 276 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:28,640 and my post HIB totally quiet no matter what workout I'm doing. 277 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,960 It's like during and then also afterwards a lot of tendon 278 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:33,320 stuff. It's like the afterwards, the 279 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,560 flare up that happened, it's completely quiet in this shoe. 280 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,480 And so I think we're kind of, we have just accidentally gotten 281 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:42,440 back to like back in the day when there actually were 282 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,520 stability racers, they were always heavier than all the the 283 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,720 neutral racers. So we actually now have the 284 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:48,960 guests. So at least people that want 285 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:50,080 that. I'm going to get a full review 286 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,640 up. But it it's got the durability, 287 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,560 it's got the stability there. Just be aware that if you're 288 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,400 sensitive to a higher arch, the plate really does dig into your 289 00:14:58,400 --> 00:14:59,760 medial arch. But if that's something you 290 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:05,360 want, we actually have one thing and that's about it. 291 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,200 So it's been really solid. Just that heel counters really 292 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,600 harsh for me. So trying to work through that. 293 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,040 But outside of that been a pleasant surprise especially. 294 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,840 It's 169 bucks too. So like credible durability. 295 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:20,560 I've done 5K workouts in it and yeah, it's not the lightest 296 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,440 thing, but it's still responds. So you know, now those of us 297 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:25,120 that need some stability, we do have an option. 298 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,160 It's not the sexiest thing out there, but it's going to keep 299 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,600 you going so. You know, when I'm talking to 300 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,960 bike fit clients, sometimes we have to do things to their bikes 301 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:38,120 that don't like look perfect or the idea of like your bars are 302 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:39,720 supposed to be as low as possible. 303 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,840 Well, not everyone can ride like that, but my point for them is 304 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,080 it doesn't matter what your bike looks like if you're comfortable 305 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:47,720 and you're riding away from other people. 306 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:51,640 Similarly with running shoes, it doesn't really matter what it 307 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:55,280 looks like or how heavy it is if it results in you being 308 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,560 comfortable and running fast times, right? 309 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,720 So Speaking of like looking good, so that we're gonna this 310 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,040 episode is sponsored by the way, by rabbit apparel. 311 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,240 So we've still got some really great stuff for them. 312 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,240 So that we really want to talk about the ice, the sun and ice 313 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,600 collection, which is basically inspired by Katy Perrys hot and 314 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:13,840 cold song. I'm just kidding. 315 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,840 It's not that's probably copyright infringements. 316 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,720 Please, people don't sue us. That was a joke. 317 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,360 OK, I'm sorry. The sun and ice collection's 318 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,200 supposed to be like dealing with hotter temperatures. 319 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,080 So we start getting into the summer months and then the ice 320 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,080 is to keep you cool. So I'm wearing the low tide, 321 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,600 which I've looked at low tide shirts from Rabbit for a long 322 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,680 time and never bought them because I'm like, I don't really 323 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:35,720 know what it's like 75 bucks, right? 324 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:36,920 It's not the cheapest thing out there. 325 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,080 I've already got the high country and it also looks more 326 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,680 like kind of a Hawaiian shirt, which where I'm in kind of need 327 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,280 more formal stuff. And I've worn it students and 328 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,040 patients of both been like, that's a really nice, my shirt, 329 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:47,880 I'm like, that's great, OK, great. 330 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:49,320 So I've still been able to wear it clinically. 331 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,720 It's also super light, which is really, really nice. 332 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,240 So we have two codes. If you still see this, you're 333 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,040 not going to see this in April. So there's no point for me to 334 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,240 say the April code, the May code for Rabbit, if you want 10% off 335 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:07,480 orders of $50 or more is May Docs 10, MAYDOC S10, all one 336 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:12,920 thing, all capitalized, 10% off. Andrew, how you got the easy? 337 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:14,119 Remind me the name of that shirt? 338 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,200 The go to crew, it's a really nice sweatshirt. 339 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,880 The material insides really soft, nice relaxed fit. 340 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,400 You can't see it in the video, but like more of a cropped fit 341 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,600 so it looks, you know, you could wear it like to a cafe or 342 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,280 something. It doesn't look like a sloppy 343 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,160 sweatshirt. I also got one of those low Tide 344 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:38,000 shirts and I was going to wear it for our recording today, but 345 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,680 after a week of temperatures in the 80s, it's now in the 40s. 346 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,200 So it's too cold for me to be wearing a short sleeve shirt in 347 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:46,560 the house. Yes, got it. 348 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:48,320 The fun of temperature oscillations. 349 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,880 We had this similar thing in Oregon where like it was up to 350 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,360 like 70s, almost 80s, and then it dropped back down to the Fort 351 00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:57,840 and like, really, I thought I'd have to go dig out like the 352 00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:59,160 hoodie and all the warm stuff again. 353 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,160 But yeah, I get it. You, I can't complain though. 354 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,080 And in Connecticut, you have probably much larger temperature 355 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,000 variations that we have. So yeah, it's I, it may have 356 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,120 snowed in like the northern part of the state, so I'm glad we 357 00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:12,800 don't live up there. That's fair. 358 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:13,960 We didn't even get snow this year. 359 00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:17,760 So all right, so let's get on to the main part of this, which is 360 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:19,640 our discussion about a few different shoes. 361 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,680 We're going to see how many we can get through the how. 362 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:24,600 Which one do you want to do first? 363 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:27,720 Let's do the one that we disagreed on the most. 364 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,000 So I do think that was the Super Blast 3. 365 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,680 So we'll have to see. OK, so the purpose of Super 366 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,920 Blast three, do you have specs? By the way, this is the newest 367 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,880 version of ASIC Super Trainer. There's a kind of a it's things 368 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,400 have got a little confusing now because they have a few, they 369 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,760 have the Mega Blast, the Sonic Blast, which I didn't really 370 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:50,560 like. They have the Super Blast and 371 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:55,400 honestly my favorite recently was the Mega Blast because the 372 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,280 like they, they completely redid the Super blast 3, right? 373 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:00,680 This has been a very classic shoe. 374 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,960 It's it's, it's the pinnacle and it always will be the pinnacle 375 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,600 super trainer. It was one of the first ones 376 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:07,760 that came out. It really grabbed people's 377 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:08,920 attention. People really liked it. 378 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:11,800 It's been a common shoe that I have suggested for people going, 379 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,800 I want to go race a marathon. What super shoe should I get? 380 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,080 And like, honestly, your your mechanics and some of the things 381 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,040 that hear history is saying a super racing shoe, one of the 382 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:22,720 really aggressive ones is probably not going to be the 383 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:24,600 best option. You're going to want a super 384 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:26,240 trainer. So I think this shoe does great 385 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,000 because despite not having a plate, it is like all of these 386 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,720 were all of these that it is very stiff, so very snappy. 387 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,120 It's got a super, very large amount of super foam. 388 00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:38,400 This one uses flight foam blast leap, which is the incredibly 389 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,360 soft. This is the softest super blast 390 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,120 I've ever experienced. And I actually did not get along 391 00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:46,920 with the shoe. The first like 50 plus miles, 392 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:48,840 but I'm like, I got to get miles on this because it's a super 393 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,080 blast. And I want to try to get 100 394 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,280 mile review because I'm hoping I actually we can actually get 395 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,160 some decent views from that. But yeah, we had some 396 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:57,040 interesting experience with it. I actually think some of our 397 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,360 experience are very similar at the beginning, but we may have 398 00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:02,160 diverged. So Andrea, tell us a little bit. 399 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,440 Tell us a little bit more about the specs, and then let's dive 400 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,120 into our different experiences. See if we can explore why that 401 00:20:08,120 --> 00:20:11,280 happens. All right, so this shoe is 8.4 402 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:16,560 oz 239 grams for men size 9. Don't have the specs for women's 403 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:22,120 stack height is 46.5 in the heel, 38.5 in the forefoot. 404 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,280 Gives it an 8mm drop and it's a $200 shoe. 405 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:31,840 So I did not test the original super blast. 406 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:36,320 ASIC sent me the Super blast too but I found the forefoot to be 407 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,920 way too tight. Like I can run a mile in it so. 408 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,600 Version one, version 1 was very similar in that regard. 409 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,960 It had that same like tapered toe guard where you're like, I 410 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,800 probably should get a half size up but then the stiffness is 411 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:49,640 going to hit me in the wrong place and it's going to feel 412 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,480 awkward. I actually did try 1/2 size up 413 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:53,800 of somebody else's and I'm like it's so stiff. 414 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:55,040 I can't. It's like trying to get over a 415 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,520 board and so I ended up going true to size but keep going but. 416 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:02,440 You guys rave about Super Blast 1 and 2 so much that you know I 417 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,000 didn't want to miss out on the party. 418 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,960 So I had high hopes when version three showed up that maybe this 419 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:09,640 one would fit better. And it did. 420 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,920 Toe box much wider. There's enough volume that I 421 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,960 didn't have any like fit related discomfort. 422 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:22,120 No, my issue with this shoe is how soft the forefoot is. 423 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:26,400 So when I was running in it, you know, I, I test it mostly for 424 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,520 easy miles, but I would take it on like some easy runs where I'd 425 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:31,720 do some pickups around like threshold pace. 426 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:37,600 And I just felt like I was sinking into the medial forefoot 427 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:42,160 here and just getting stuck. And the other feature of the 428 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,920 shoe that actually in a way made it worse. 429 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,320 This shoe has a lot of forefoot sole flare on the lateral side, 430 00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:53,120 which pushes you immediately. And typically I do well with 431 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:57,440 that design, but when it's pushing you immediately and then 432 00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,800 you're sinking into the medial forefoot. 433 00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:05,360 And I'm somebody who doesn't have a lot of ankle E version or 434 00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:07,880 pronation. So if you have a shoe that's 435 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,760 pushing you into pronation and then you're sinking in, well, 436 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,600 your body is going to steal motion from someplace else. 437 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,720 And for me that meant that my hip internally rotated and I 438 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,520 started getting IT and pain from running in the shoe. 439 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,760 So definitely was not going to keep running it in it in it to 440 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,160 see if it got better. But the softness of the forefoot 441 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:35,560 definitely killed it for me. Yeah, so I had a similar 442 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,480 experience where the fit, this is the best fitting super blast 443 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,160 of any of the versions. The four foot is finally not as 444 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,400 tapered. Definitely got a it's a little 445 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,560 bit wider fit, which is way more comfortable, which just makes 446 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,480 sense to me because I'm like you're probably going to take 447 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,160 this for like marathon or long, long run workouts. 448 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,400 You probably want to have enough room up there because you're 449 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,560 talking about even if you don't, maybe you have a narrow foot 450 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,720 like you're worried about blisters with the toe box 451 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,800 taping, tapering and your feet are going to swell with over 452 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,800 long distance. You want to, I would think you'd 453 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,520 want a little more room. This fixes it. 454 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,440 I've had no issues with slip into the upper. 455 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,520 The tongue sits really really well, which is really nice. 456 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,920 No challenges. I had issues with the sole just 457 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,680 like you. I found the entire midsole way 458 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:17,440 too soft. This is the first super blaster. 459 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,720 I'm like this is not stable neutral anymore and I know 460 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,920 Nathan has mentioned that. On the medial side, I think it's 461 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,000 FF blast plus is the bottom layer and then FF leap on the 462 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,200 top. There is this little triangle 463 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,920 that comes up into the medial arch that Nathan apparently 464 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:33,920 felt. I didn't feel that at all. 465 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,800 I, I my first couple runs in the shoe like I'd same thing. 466 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,800 We're like lateral hip. IT band was kind of bugging me. 467 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,600 It felt like I was sinking into the whole shoe and just there 468 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,600 was no bounce. And I remember the first run I 469 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,640 tried to really pick up the pace, I was struggling. 470 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,720 And by the end I, my, my legs, my hips were so sore. 471 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,360 All the things are like I'm trying to stabilize myself in 472 00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:56,680 this shoe. It was so soft. 473 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,320 So I think if you have stiffer mechanics and you want a really 474 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,200 soft shoe, this is going to be great. 475 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,640 If you're coming from previous Super Blast where they weren't 476 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,080 the softest shoe, a lot of them were like firmer, snappier, 477 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,960 bouncier, but not soft. This went the exact opposite 478 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:12,880 direction. And Andrea, I had the same 479 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:17,040 experience where the lateral sole player was just so rough 480 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,680 for me because I was getting pivoted. 481 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,480 So all of my muscles that control pronation, my post tip, 482 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,840 all that kind of my deep hip rotators, they were just getting 483 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,560 worked. And it made it really difficult 484 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,280 to do long runs and to try to go up tempo in the shoe. 485 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,280 It's like I could get through some easy runs, but it just felt 486 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,680 like the versatility had dropped. 487 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,440 Now again, as I mentioned, also a shoe reviewer. 488 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,120 So I'm like I'm just going to suffer through this and try to 489 00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:44,400 get miles on this and then I'll complain about it at the 100 490 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,600 mile review. So I haven't done the 100 mile 491 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,520 review yet, but I have about 115 miles in my pair and they have 492 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,960 drastically improved and it took about 50-60 miles. 493 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,240 And I think it's because the foam started to settle, which is 494 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,840 both good but also not good given the price range that you 495 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,240 would want the durability. But if you like that softness, 496 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,000 you would expect it to stay there for long periods of time. 497 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,160 It doesn't. It starts to settle. 498 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,400 And this, there's actually some evidence on a lot of the Super 499 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,520 shoes out there. If you compare a lot of these 500 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:16,360 newer PBA ATPU foams compared to Eva, yes, when they start, 501 00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:18,120 they're super bouncy, super resilient. 502 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:23,160 But after about like 100, like a hundred 150 miles, they often 503 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,000 times have very similar resiliency and compliance rates 504 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,000 to Eva. So I forgot I need to go find 505 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,240 the study that was talking about that. 506 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,080 Like that's really interesting and I'm embarrassed I can't cite 507 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,080 it right now, but that's kind of how it feels where this thing 508 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,360 has it's super light. My size 10 is 8 1/2 oz, which 509 00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:40,800 that's really light. And it's one of these things 510 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,600 where I'm like, if you like bouncy, this is a great super 511 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,040 racial alternative that I think a lot of recreational runners or 512 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,560 people that just don't do well in the aggressive super racing 513 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,120 shoes. Great option. 514 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,320 It now that it's firmed up a little bit, it's snappy. 515 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,120 It's still not the best shoe in my opinion for like intervals. 516 00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:00,080 Like I wouldn't take this shoe for a 10K like I wouldn't even 517 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,640 think about it for 1/2 marathon. I'd still want something a 518 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,840 marathon. I now that it is where it is, I 519 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,960 would be considerate more of it. And I think it's because the 520 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,480 foam because I've crushed that lateral aspect so much, it 521 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,000 started to break in. So the sole flare isn't 522 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,200 bothering me as much. So I've been able to do some 523 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,640 longer long runs now, feel OK in it up temple runs feel OK from 524 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,360 it, but it's just still a little too soft for me to want to do 525 00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:26,200 anything faster than I was able to do in version 2 or even 526 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,040 version 1. So I think we're having similar 527 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:32,600 experiences, but I was stubborn enough to try to like keep going 528 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,720 and try just because I want that 100 mile review. 529 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,120 But I don't think it's that different of an experience 530 00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:40,520 because again, didn't matter because we landed very different 531 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,600 places. I think it's still having the 532 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,960 same thing. So interesting, I'm the only 533 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,840 other shoe that I've run in with flight foam. 534 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:54,720 Leap is the meta speed Tokyo or no Paris? 535 00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:57,400 No Tokyo Edge. Yeah. 536 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,600 And I probably have 30 miles on that pair, so not enough to 537 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,960 again, like really wear it out. But I know that you guys have 538 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,080 put a ton of miles on your pair. Did you find that the Flight 539 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,920 Foam Leap did the same thing? I found the actually. 540 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:12,480 I didn't realize that, so you mentioned it. 541 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,320 I was super disappointed. I didn't like the. 542 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:21,160 I haven't done as well with the the not the, the edge, the sky 543 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,600 since the original version, but same thing where the edge the 544 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,640 the Tokyo edge. I was like, man, the 1st 50 545 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,080 miles, I'm like disappointed. I had blisters. 546 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:32,400 I didn't feel like I could pick up the pace. 547 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,720 And then something happened around 5060 miles where it just 548 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,760 got way more snapping. And I think it's just that super 549 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,440 compliant. Mitzel just compressed enough 550 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,400 for that. It actually matched my body. 551 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,560 Somebody made a great comment about this on YouTube. 552 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,480 They're going Matt, because I, I did a top got 3 super shoes and 553 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,000 I added this in there now, not earlier. 554 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,280 And they mentioned Matt, do you know if it's the foam 555 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,680 compressing or is it your you are learning the shoe and both 556 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,880 those could be really possible. But the fact is that it's now 557 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,240 happened twice with two different flight foam leap shoes 558 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,600 where I think it just took the I think part of it's me learning 559 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,000 the shoe, but part of it's also like you're right. 560 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,840 I think the foam has to compress enough to optimize to get it to 561 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,560 a certain level where it's like not so mushy that I can actually 562 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,000 run through it. Cuz I'm just realizing this. 563 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,000 I had the same feeling where the edge, I would try to run it, I 564 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:19,960 just couldn't get it. I just didn't feel like I was 565 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,160 getting anything out of it. It just felt like I sunk into 566 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,960 the shoe, struggled to get out of it and then all of a sudden 567 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,920 one run I'm like where did this come from? 568 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,400 Interesting. So yeah, yeah, my experience in 569 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,840 the Edge, I liked how the foam felt. 570 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,720 It felt very bouncy. I loved it for like 5K10K pace 571 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,080 intervals. But my problem with it was the 572 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,680 whole midsole felt like it operated as one block. 573 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:49,360 And if I ran on like sidewalks around here disappear all the 574 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,600 time. So you're like hopping off the 575 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,480 road onto the grass on the sidewalk. 576 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:58,520 So if I landed on any surface that wasn't perfectly flat my 577 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,000 foot would just slide with the upper. 578 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,560 Like I it felt like I was easily going to sprain my ankle in that 579 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:12,080 shoe if I landed on anything less than perfectly flat because 580 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,160 of how blocky the midsole was. But I do wonder if I kept 581 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,560 running in it, would it maybe break in and I'd feel like it 582 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,360 gave a little bit with my mechanics. 583 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:24,760 It's a good question. What's Yeah. 584 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,040 What's crazy is this, I've seen people do like smooth but like 585 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,480 trail races and shout out to Southern California cross 586 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:31,760 country. There are lots of people who 587 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,360 race on cross court tree courses in that shoe. 588 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,480 I would not do that personally, just because it's narrow enough 589 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:38,600 that it's just not stable enough. 590 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,120 But yeah, I kind of had that same experience. 591 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,680 Was just like track Rd. smooth Rd. 592 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,280 Nothing, nothing else. Yeah. 593 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:47,640 Straight line, please. Yeah. 594 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:49,280 Very interesting. Yeah. 595 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,360 Trying to think of anything else I might comment about with this 596 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,080 shoe regarding like the differences between your and my 597 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,560 experience. I think one thing I was looking 598 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,160 back at the review that you and I wrote and one thing that I 599 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,880 wrote about is this shoe in the previous versions definitely was 600 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:08,680 stable, neutral. But the way that they've 601 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:14,400 designed the soul flaring where it's so wide laterally really 602 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,880 makes it work well for much fewer people because there 603 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,080 aren't a ton of people who have lateral stability needs like 604 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:23,640 myself. Like if you've sprained your 605 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,280 ankle a ton, then you probably do. 606 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,240 But for the most part, people tend to need a little more 607 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,480 control medially. So they've taken this shoe from 608 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,600 version 1 and version 2 where it was closer to stable neutral to 609 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:40,400 now it's really driving you medially into a very soft foam. 610 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,600 So it is going to be much more specific for who it works for. 611 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,120 But again, as to your point and what you've experienced, maybe 612 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,640 that will change the more it breaks in, but it's just it's a 613 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,960 very different shoe than previous versions. 614 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,400 Now I have a question for you, and I'm real. 615 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,080 I have my theory on this and let me give it some background. 616 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,640 I'm going to ask the question that'll give you a little 617 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,800 background. So this is not the only shoe 618 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,080 I've seen, except that the shoes that I'm going to talk about, I 619 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,920 can't say who they're from, but I've seen some prototype racing 620 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:18,200 shoes that had some of the most extreme lateral sole flare I've 621 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,480 ever seen in my life. I got a chance to test them. 622 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,560 They did not work very well for me and I would definitely not 623 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,720 take them for a marathon or even a half marathon or even a 10K or 624 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,360 maybe even a 5K to be honest. But I'm curious, I have my, my 625 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,040 theory. Why do you think and there's a 626 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,200 couple companies doing this, why do you think they're putting so 627 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,840 much lateral sole flare there? That is a really good question 628 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,880 because I've also noticed that more and more shoes have more 629 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,760 lateral sole flare, particularly in the forefoot. 630 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:48,640 It would be really interesting to ask their designers like what 631 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,600 what is their rationale? You know when you read their 632 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,240 marketing literature, they say the the geometry has been 633 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,920 optimized for quicker transitions and theoretically 634 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:03,200 that is what wide lateral soul flare in the forefoot does. 635 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:08,360 It makes you pronate much faster and get up on that first MTP for 636 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,080 push off. But that's not really taking 637 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:17,720 into account the way that most runners run or just the way that 638 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:21,840 the foot progresses naturally through stance phase and to push 639 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,440 off. So it does kind of seem like 640 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,880 there are trends in the running shoe world where one company 641 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,920 will make a design and claim that it does something and then 642 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,840 all of a sudden you see a few more companies using that same 643 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:39,760 design. So I wonder if we're seeing that 644 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,520 like one company decided that they're going to make their 645 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:47,040 flagship racer have high lateral sole flare in the forefoot. 646 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,520 And then other designers are like, huh, maybe we should do 647 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,840 that. I don't know, but I have 648 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,880 definitely noticed that trend and because I've tested more and 649 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:02,400 more shoes with excessive lateral 4 foot sole flare, which 650 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,840 typically I like, I can definitely say that if it's 651 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,520 combined with a really soft midsole, it just doesn't work 652 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,400 for me. So this is a really great point 653 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,080 that it's not just the one piece, it's also the 654 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:15,640 interaction. Of the other components like. 655 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,520 Definitely thank the people at Hoka for a great conversation. 656 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,520 A couple episodes you go about that exact fact. 657 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,000 It was like I was asking about like some of like the central 658 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:24,280 grooves and all this kind of stuff. 659 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,920 They're like, yeah, just FYI, it's not just that. 660 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,640 It's how do the shape of the plate, the compliance of the 661 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,760 midsole foam and the geometry and all these like how what's 662 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,320 the combined thing? We actually know this from the 663 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,000 evidence where people have tried to go like the original Vapor 664 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:39,320 Flying. They're like, everybody's like, 665 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,040 oh, it must be the plate. And then they went through the 666 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,960 way it must be the foam. And I was definitely someone 667 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,280 who's like, it's the foam, It's the major piece, you know, so 668 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:50,360 the literature suggests if you cut the plate that, that it 669 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,600 keeps its, its similar efficiency. 670 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,560 So it must be the foam. The more I've learned now and 671 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:57,960 gotten to test some interesting things, the more I've realized, 672 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:02,240 no, no, no, it's not one piece. It's the how all those pieces 673 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,120 actually interact together, the height, the jump, all it's a 674 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,480 complex equation. It's not one piece because when 675 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,639 you separate those things out, they don't add up. 676 00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:13,480 If you have one shoe with this, another shoe, it doesn't add up. 677 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,040 It's this unique combination of all of them. 678 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:20,199 So yeah, my, my theory, I think you're right. 679 00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:23,159 But my theory was that some people thought like, hey, that 680 00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:25,760 if we put more material, material out here, especially if 681 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,719 it's softer, because people generally when they're running 682 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,520 initial contact, be it 4 footer heel is usually on the lateral 683 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,440 aspect, right? So they maybe their thought was, 684 00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:37,920 hey, this gives more, more for them to compress and bounce 685 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,040 forward, not realizing that isn't just sagittal plane 686 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:42,679 motion. There's a lot of frontal plane 687 00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:44,360 or side to side stuff you need to take into account. 688 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,560 And that a combination with if the overall foam is so soft that 689 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,040 you can't get out of it, that's, that might cause, and that's, I 690 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,159 think both of you are both, both of us are having both of you. 691 00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:57,840 I'm talking to the third person. Both of us are having that same 692 00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,360 thing. And it took until I think it 693 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,080 firmed up and lost some of that softness for it to start working 694 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,200 a little bit more. But man, those first 50-60 695 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,120 miles, it was rough. But to be fair, a lot of runners 696 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,400 are going to be, should be using these a heck of a lot more. 697 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,640 But man, getting through that, it was tough, right? 698 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:14,960 So. Yeah. 699 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,360 And you know when you think about other shoes that have come 700 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,960 out recently with significant lateral 4 foot soul flare, both 701 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:27,720 of which you hated, the Mizuno Hyper Warp Pro, which is one of 702 00:35:27,720 --> 00:35:30,360 my favorite shoes. I've got so many miles on it. 703 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:35,360 And then also the Hyper Warp Warp Pure, which while it is 704 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:41,600 softer, it is nowhere near as soft as the Super blast 3 and I 705 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,520 can run whatever pace I want in it. 706 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,320 I could run 800 pace in that shoe no problem. 707 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,240 I wouldn't race an 800 in it, but it's. 708 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,480 I did run a 5K in it. It flared up my Achilles 709 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,200 immediately afterwards because of that 3 1/2 millimeter drop. 710 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,480 But I did race in it just just to be able to talk about it. 711 00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:03,240 Yeah, yeah. I'm glad you're enjoying that. 712 00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:05,360 I've had high hopes. And I'm like, why did you guys 713 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,760 put a 3 1/2 millimeter drop? That's like classic Mizuno, by 714 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,160 the way. And this is, this is an ongoing 715 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:12,000 thing. Let's go off topic. 716 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,800 But like many, many years ago, they would have like the hot and 717 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,160 they're coming down off of this, which is really interesting now. 718 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,760 But they had the highest heel drops of any of the trainers 719 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:26,200 back at like 10-15 years ago. Everything was 12 to 14mm and 720 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,880 then they had the Mizuna Wave Universe, which is their racing 721 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,720 shoe, which no cushioning 4mm drop. 722 00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:33,800 And I'm like, what's happening to your athletes? 723 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,560 Like they also had the Ronin, which was a longer distance 724 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:37,800 shoe, which had a more traditional drop. 725 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,600 But I'm like people like especially over Japan, they 726 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,000 would go from like the 12 milliliter drop racing shoe to 727 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:44,720 racing the marathon in the Wave Universe. 728 00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:46,920 And I'm like, what happened to those Achilles? 729 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,240 I know, yeah. That's a that's a pretty crazy 730 00:36:49,240 --> 00:36:51,360 swing. I feel that way about a lot of 731 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:55,400 Nike shoes, though. You look at them trainers, which 732 00:36:55,440 --> 00:37:01,000 are mostly 8 to 10mm and not with any significant heel bevel, 733 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:05,680 and then they're racing shoes, They're 8 and Vaporfly's 8. 734 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,600 Alphafly is. Vaporfly is 6. 735 00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:15,200 Now and Alphafly is 8 Yeah, but neither of those shoes run like, 736 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:19,040 feel like a six or 8mm drive. No, they feel lower, but all of 737 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:24,680 Nike's trainers feel like 8 to 10mm drop shoes. 738 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,160 I would say they feel higher just because, yeah, like you 739 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,760 said, the lack of the heel bubble makes it feel like extra, 740 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,240 like clunk. And you're like, oh, there's no 741 00:37:31,240 --> 00:37:33,600 way this is like this is 12, which is going to work great for 742 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,280 certain people, not me or you. So, yeah, so. 743 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:41,440 I did hear some things from a Nike sponsored athlete about the 744 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,880 new Pegasus though, so we'll. See, we have not tested that 745 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,120 yet, so we'll have to see. Are you ready to move on to this 746 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,200 one? I don't think we've talked about 747 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,960 our experience in this yes, in this shoe yet, so I am. 748 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:54,680 Yeah, I don't think so either happened. 749 00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:56,760 Yeah, so. So why don't you, will you go 750 00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:01,840 first, OK. So the Puma Faster Nitro Elite 751 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:06,520 3, which is not the shoe is right now my favorite like 5K10K 752 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,600 shoe. I erased a 5K in that last year 753 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,760 and it was awesome. So when I got this shoe, which 754 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:17,080 is the Puma Deviate Nitro Elite 4I was interested in testing it. 755 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:18,640 But I also know it's a very different shoe. 756 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:25,200 So I had purchased on my own the original Deviate Nitro Elite and 757 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,280 it was just so tight in the toe box I sent it back. 758 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:32,480 I couldn't run it at A at all and I have not tested version 2 759 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,560 or version 3. So this is basically my first 760 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:39,920 experience in this line. So the fits great, fits true to 761 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:41,600 size. I didn't have to go up with half 762 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:46,680 size like I do in the fast arm. Plenty of room in the toe box 763 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,960 even with this stiff overlay over the big toe which I thought 764 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:52,640 was going to bother me but did not. 765 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,840 Super easy to lock the shoe down even though the tongue is really 766 00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:03,720 thin, just 0 foot discomfort in the shoe, but I really did not 767 00:39:03,720 --> 00:39:07,720 like running in it. And the main reason is you see 768 00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:13,120 how early this 4 foot rocker starts and the foam, the foam 769 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:17,160 reminds me a lot of the foam in the New Balance SC Elite version 770 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,360 3. It's snappy, it feels light, you 771 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,560 don't feel like you sink down in it very much. 772 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:29,880 But the main difference between this shoe and the SC Elite 3 is 773 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,720 I just didn't feel like the rocker did anything for me. 774 00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:37,800 Like I felt like it was bouncing me up rather than rolling me 775 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,480 forward. And I think it's just because 776 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:45,400 how early the rocker starts and this is not a very big heel 777 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,320 bevel. So I think when I land in the 778 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:51,920 shoe, I'm landing a little bit flatter than I do in other shoes 779 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,400 that let me land with a little more of a toes down position. 780 00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:00,640 So I'm basically landing and then the rocker is immediately 781 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,520 making me go forward. But the way that just how my 782 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:08,080 body loads, the shoe made me feel like it was bouncing up. 783 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:13,160 And anytime I did anything besides easy running in it, I 784 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,560 would start getting tension in my hip flexors because I just 785 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,200 felt like it was bouncing me up and I was compensating by 786 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,520 increasing how much hip extension I was going into and 787 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:26,960 it. It also didn't really feel like 788 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,120 it made me that much faster, like I would have rather run in 789 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:34,400 like a daily trainer for these workouts than because it you 790 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,080 know, if you're going to wear a super shoe, you want it to make 791 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:41,720 your running easier. And despite the shoe being very 792 00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:44,840 light, it is I've got. I've got specs by the way. 793 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:46,280 If you want. Yeah. 794 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:51,000 So specs are it's 6 oz or 170 grams for men's size, 95.2 oz or 795 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,240 147 grams for women's size 8. So very light. 796 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,080 Yeah, it dropped a lot of weight. 797 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,400 It's not the lightest, but it's definitely in that category of 798 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,440 lighter super where you got a lot of stuff in the like 6 1/2 799 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,120 seven ounce range right now. But everything all the really 800 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:10,520 like a lot of stuff dropped into that six or slightly low range. 801 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:14,720 So similar Vaporfly fast R3 also the same thing. 802 00:41:14,720 --> 00:41:20,120 It's actually the same weight as this, but yeah, 3830 in the in 803 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:21,960 the heel and forefoot for an 8mm drop. 804 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,040 Yeah. And in my review, I just 805 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,360 compared all of the differences between the shoe, which I don't 806 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,400 like, and the faster 3, which I love. 807 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:31,760 And I mean, the geometry can't be different. 808 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,880 I didn't bring the faster three up, but you know, the faster 809 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:40,640 three had a completely decoupled heel from the forefoot, really 810 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:44,760 large heel bevel. That shoe was 100% designed for 811 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:48,120 midfoot or 4 foot strikers. Whereas I really feel like with 812 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:52,160 this tiny little heel bevel, an early 4 foot rocker, this shoe 813 00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,720 is really better for people who land further back. 814 00:41:56,280 --> 00:42:00,040 I will confirm that it feels great, and I think it's for that 815 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:01,640 reason. Can I jump in? 816 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:02,680 Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. 817 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,560 So I think we had the exact opposite experience and this is 818 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,960 great because we're going to dive into this very similar 819 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,080 experience with the upper, by the way, where it feels like a 820 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,400 racing shoe, but it's not like compressing. 821 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,280 It's just like it's not wide at all. 822 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,440 It's definitely slightly snug, but not so much that I'm like, 823 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:22,040 oh, my toes are getting cramped. Upper is very light, which is 824 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:23,760 great. Drops a lot of weight without 825 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,920 being like there's no security problems mostly flexible here 826 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,640 that the heel counter is very thin and I don't know if this 827 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,720 bothered me at all, but it's been mostly good. 828 00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,280 But yeah, the only real stiffness is this small thin 829 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,200 heel counselor back here, which kind of pushed my Achilles a 830 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,000 little bit. Wasn't it wasn't terrible. 831 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,600 So if it was fine, true to size, it would disappear immediately. 832 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,320 I had a somewhat similar experience to you when I was 833 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,520 warming or doing anything slow in this shoe. 834 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,760 Often times I'll, I don't usually switch out shoes right 835 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:56,520 now, just the way my life works. If I'm going for a run, if I'm 836 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,200 going to the track or I'm going on the treadmill for workouts, I 837 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:01,440 don't have time to switch shoes. So the same shoes that I'm going 838 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,360 to do the workout in, I'm going to be warming up and cool down. 839 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:08,040 And when I would warm up in this shoe, I'd be like, I don't like 840 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:09,960 this shoe. Like it doesn't feel like a 841 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,440 super shoe. I feel like it feels awkward 842 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,360 because oftentimes when I kill a little stiff, so I'm up on my 843 00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:18,280 forefoot and like, what is this? But every run, every workout 844 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,000 that I've done in this shoe, once I got up to speed, I'm 845 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,320 like, oh, this is really good. Like I like this. 846 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,960 Like if I ever have time to race because life is getting is 847 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,120 really crazy right now. I absolutely. 848 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,640 I almost did, but then I watched my wife get super sick because 849 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,600 she was like on the verge of getting sick race got really 850 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:37,080 sick. And so I kind of had the same 851 00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:38,480 experience. I'm like, I'm actually going to 852 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:40,400 skip this 10K. That's very smart. 853 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,760 It's just. In it's just in Newburgh, I 854 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:44,960 would rather sleep in a little bit and just get a run in. 855 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:46,960 So I'm glad I have. I'm finally developing the 856 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,800 maturity finally. How long it lasts, I don't know. 857 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,480 But when I do race, it's probably going to be in this 858 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,760 because that again and getting up on my toes. 859 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,960 I hate this. It just, I think the four foot 860 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,960 rocker is long enough that it just doesn't feel like I can 861 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,440 really snap off this thing. But as more of a heel striker, 862 00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,720 when I hit the heel it rolls me forward so quick. 863 00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:12,360 It's really good. I do feel like it does extend 864 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,480 the straight out just because of the larger 4 foot rocker. 865 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,200 Gets me into a little bit like helps me transition and deals 866 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,480 with some stiff calves to get a little more hip extension. 867 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,280 But yeah, landing at the rear foot way better. 868 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,120 Trying to Sprint in this shoe. Not good. 869 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:30,000 OK, try like 1500 for me. I'm probably still a heel 870 00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:31,200 strike. I guess I'm probably still a 871 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,600 heel striker there. But like 1500 below that kind of 872 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,280 pace. Absolutely not 5K up 10K. 873 00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,880 It's not a stable neutral shoe. I was really hopeful because 874 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:41,920 everybody was like, oh, version three stable neutral. 875 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,040 I'm like, no, it wasn't. And the outsole came off super 876 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:48,080 fast and people said the same, oh, stable, it's not OK Narrow 877 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,120 midfoot like longer efforts. I definitely get a little 878 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,160 fatigued in this shoe, but it's not unstable, which is nice. 879 00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:56,400 So I think people that have more stable mechanics that are heel 880 00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,960 strikers going a decent pace, not the fastest, like even in 881 00:44:59,960 --> 00:45:01,600 the mid 60s, you're going to be fine. 882 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,920 It's much more comfortable. But if you're trying, if you're 883 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,760 someone that lands farther forward, if you're someone that 884 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,160 really wants to be running super like really, really like Sprint 885 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,160 like low middle distance, it's probably not. 886 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,680 But for the longer distance stuff, it does quite well for 887 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,320 me, just rolling me along and I put down some pretty quick 888 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,920 paces, like 520 ish pace pushing the stroller. 889 00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,320 So it's pretty for me, it's good. 890 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,080 But I think this shoe is like the fast R where I think it's 891 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,720 very polarized. That's where I can appreciate 892 00:45:31,720 --> 00:45:34,400 the fast R3. I can't get it to work. 893 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,080 It's just so unstable medially, it's so aggressive that it just 894 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,160 doesn't work as we're having the opposite experience. 895 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:43,760 And I think that's something worth exploring where, you know, 896 00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:45,880 shoes are both can you learn them? 897 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,480 But there's a certain limitation to that of going, yeah, 898 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:52,080 depending on your mechanics, can you actually load this shoe the 899 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,440 way that's going to get the most out of it? 900 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,280 It's like, what do you think about our differences? 901 00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:58,920 It makes sense to me. Right, Of course it makes sense. 902 00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:02,120 And I actually think it's great that Puma has differentiated 903 00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,520 their racing line like this, because when you try to make all 904 00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:09,240 of your racing shoes work for everybody, you often make your 905 00:46:09,240 --> 00:46:11,760 racing shoes work for very few people. 906 00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,880 I can't say what it is and I don't have it yet, but there is 907 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,200 a third one coming. Oh, really? 908 00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,640 OK, David, talking about the shoes you can't talk about. 909 00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,720 I don't have it though. I've just seen a photo of it and 910 00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:30,240 we're like, oh. Oh, the one that we're hoping to 911 00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:32,600 get. We're hoping, yeah, that that 912 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,200 one would be like, hey, why is that? 913 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,480 I guess it's technically public, right? 914 00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:37,440 I saw it. That's how. 915 00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,600 Yeah, you found it online. Yeah, for those who don't know, 916 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,800 who are maybe new, don't realize that I like scope and try to 917 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:46,960 hunt things out. And so I'll find things and I'm 918 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:48,560 gonna go, Nathan, can we test this shoe? 919 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:50,920 And he's like, is it? Is anybody else reviewing it? 920 00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:52,480 And like, does anybody else have it? 921 00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,440 And like, no, but I found it publicly. 922 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,160 So that means it should be a good to go. 923 00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,360 Can you ask for it, please? Because we've learned that when 924 00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:00,480 I interact with shoe companies, I usually mess stuff up. 925 00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,400 So we usually let Nathan do the interactions. 926 00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,440 So this is a what probably weekly occurrence. 927 00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,200 Definitely. I'd say more than weekly, Yeah. 928 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,720 Yep. And then heaven forbid he's 929 00:47:11,720 --> 00:47:14,040 like, Nah, like he tries and doesn't get back to me. 930 00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:18,800 Then the eBay hunt begins, which I just had probably the biggest 931 00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,680 defeat I've ever had where I got beaten by like probably 2-3 932 00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,640 hundred dollars and I I let that one go for sure I. 933 00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,240 Was like, yeah. Nope, I'm, I'm not, I'm not 934 00:47:27,240 --> 00:47:28,160 doing this. No, thank you. 935 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,320 But well, anyway, back to yeah. Suffice to say, there is another 936 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:35,040 Puma Racing shoe that Matt and I are both very excited to test 937 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,640 hopefully and hopefully we can tell you about it soon, yes. 938 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,280 So, yes, but you, you were saying that you like the 939 00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:46,240 diversification of the line because you feel like there is 940 00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:48,240 something for everyone, which is kind of the point, right. 941 00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:50,600 But I don't know if any companies have really they've 942 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,040 talked about it. I don't know how they, well, 943 00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:53,000 they've actually hit that on the. 944 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:56,600 Head well I think when you're trying to sell something you 945 00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,400 don't want to make your marketing such that you're 946 00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:03,040 making people less interested in your shoe by saying hey, the 947 00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,240 faster 3 is just for midfoot and four foot strikers. 948 00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,800 And the Deviate Nitro Elite 4 is just for rear foot strikers. 949 00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,960 Because I'm sure there are some rear foot strikers who are fine 950 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,000 in the faster 3. And I'm sure there are going to 951 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,920 be some midfoot strikers who are fine in the DV8 Nitro Elite 4. 952 00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:23,560 But in general, because of the shoes design, you are going to 953 00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:27,840 have more rear foot strikers better off in the DV8 and more 4 954 00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,720 foot and midfoot strikers better in the faster. 955 00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:37,040 But it would be helpful if shoe companies gave consumers more 956 00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:40,400 information about how they designed a shoe and what they 957 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:44,040 had in mind. Because there's so many shoes 958 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,000 out there. And you know, what we do at 959 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,240 Doctors of Running is try to help people like get through the 960 00:48:49,240 --> 00:48:52,960 noise and figure out well, out of all these shoes, what might 961 00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,480 be the best one or two shoes for me or 3 or 4. 962 00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:00,800 But it would be great if shoe company said like, look, when we 963 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,360 designed this shoe, we were designing it for people who have 964 00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:07,800 these characteristics in mind. And then that just helps 965 00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:12,680 everyday runners who don't have time to watch YouTube or read 966 00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,280 shoe reviews pick out their shoes a little better. 967 00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:20,480 And it also helps running store employees help their customers 968 00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:22,200 find the right shoe a little easier. 969 00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:27,800 So I, I again, I understand why they're not doing that, but I 970 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:32,080 think for many segments of the running shoe or the running 971 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:35,160 population, it would be very helpful if they gave a little 972 00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,720 more technical information about their shoes. 973 00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,920 Now, to be fair, can we talk about ASICS and the meta speed 974 00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,360 series? Do you feel like the Sky versus 975 00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:45,640 Edge? Do you feel like that's it 976 00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,640 because they talked the original thing was talking about like 977 00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:52,200 cadence versus stride runners and that was the initial 978 00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:54,160 conversation and then they were like, no, no, no. 979 00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,120 It's how you increase speed that's the major differentiating 980 00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:58,640 factor. So ASIC has done that. 981 00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,600 Do you feel like that's been helpful or not? 982 00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:06,480 Well, no, because if you don't are online at all, you see all 983 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:11,000 the all of the confusion about well, am IA cadence or a stride 984 00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,960 runner. How do I know which Asic's 985 00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:15,960 racing shoe is going to work for me? 986 00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:20,160 And the reality is, yeah, your watch will tell you your cadence 987 00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:23,440 and it estimates your stride length, but it's definitely not 988 00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:28,320 perfectly accurate. And people will vary in how they 989 00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,080 increase their speed depending on a number of factors. 990 00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:33,600 So you really can't say like, oh, I'm a cadence runner. 991 00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,280 Oh, I'm a stride runner, because everyone is a little bit of 992 00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,360 both. And it will depend on how 993 00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:44,960 fatigued you are on the nature of the course, Just so many 994 00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:46,680 factors. And, you know, we've heard 995 00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,800 anecdotally lots of people who say, oh, yeah, I know that I'm 996 00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:53,640 more of a cadence runner, but I like the other. 997 00:50:53,720 --> 00:50:58,920 Yeah, yeah. And so companies try to not dumb 998 00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:06,560 down, but they try to take their R&D and have marketing, help 999 00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:09,080 their customers figure out what might work for them. 1000 00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:11,440 And I think a lot gets lost in translation. 1001 00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,360 Yeah, I think it'd be good to. I, I like your idea of going, 1002 00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:17,360 hey, let's build a story. This is kind of who we were 1003 00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,960 thinking about when we tried to design this right here was kind 1004 00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:21,600 of what happened and all that kind of stuff. 1005 00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,280 It'd be really cool to go what went into actually developing 1006 00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:25,680 this. Obviously it's also hard because 1007 00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:29,120 that might also give little insights into exactly how 1008 00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:31,760 they're doing that, which is company privacy, things like 1009 00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,560 that. Proprietary stuff might be might 1010 00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:36,680 be challenging with that, but it'd be, it would be good to go. 1011 00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:40,440 Who are we? Who do we have in mind for this? 1012 00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:43,240 Like I really like with with Brooks when I was talking, 1013 00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:46,040 especially Evan Day mentioned this when we're talking about 1014 00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,120 the new, this is a totally pivotal shoe, different shoe, 1015 00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,120 but was talking about the Brooks beast, the new one, because 1016 00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:53,560 we're the only people that maybe Bach and I were the only people 1017 00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,000 on the the shoe reviewer well and that care about that shoe. 1018 00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:00,240 But the the the one of the few motion control shoes left Evan 1019 00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:02,760 Evan was really excited because like, actually we were looking 1020 00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:05,280 at all these different factors and realized that it actually 1021 00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:08,920 this shoe for whatever reason, actually decreased bodily pain 1022 00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:11,280 in our participants like walk running. 1023 00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,560 And we're like, we don't know why, but that's kind of cool. 1024 00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:16,280 And it's like that could be part of the story going, yeah, we're 1025 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,680 not be honest though. Don't be like, oh, it's going to 1026 00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,720 decrease your fibromyalgia pain. No, it should be like, you know, 1027 00:52:21,720 --> 00:52:23,720 we have no idea why this is happening. 1028 00:52:23,720 --> 00:52:26,000 It's you can be part of the the little test process of us trying 1029 00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,480 to figure this out. But in a lot of our wear testers 1030 00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,760 had decreased over bodily pain. We are really designing this for 1031 00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,320 those that want to be on their feet all day or maybe have some 1032 00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:36,720 level of discomfort. And this might be a great shoe 1033 00:52:36,720 --> 00:52:38,640 for that. I haven't tested it Block just 1034 00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:40,520 got it. So I'm hoping that comes in. 1035 00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:43,160 Maybe it'll be a beast that I can actually wear. 1036 00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:48,480 But yeah, I like the idea of a of like, why did we do this? 1037 00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:50,920 And sometimes I feel like that definitely gets lost in. 1038 00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:52,440 You said that perfectly. I think it gets lost in 1039 00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,120 translation. But you and I are also nerds 1040 00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:57,840 that want to know why it was made rather than some people 1041 00:52:57,840 --> 00:52:59,680 would just put on the shoe. Or not. 1042 00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:04,160 And you know, I also think that sometimes shoe design is less 1043 00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:07,400 about bio mechanics and more about appearance. 1044 00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,800 I think that shoes with a posterior sole flare are a great 1045 00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:14,160 example. There's no biomechanical reason 1046 00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:17,840 to make a shoe with excessive posterior sole flare as you I 1047 00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:18,560 can't. Wait for the. 1048 00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:20,800 I can't wait for the YouTube comments on that. 1049 00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:28,680 But so many shoes haven't, and I mean it just completely ruins 1050 00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:31,720 the running experience most of the time for me because. 1051 00:53:31,720 --> 00:53:33,560 By the way, just sorry go for sorry. 1052 00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:38,760 Well, posterior sole flare results in earlier initial 1053 00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:41,440 contact, and if you're a heel striker that means you're going 1054 00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:44,680 to land in more dorsiflexion which puts more stress on your 1055 00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:48,200 interior tibialis, so you're more likely to have anterior 1056 00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:52,080 shin pain as a result of it. But posterior soul flare looks 1057 00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:58,600 cool, so sometimes I wonder if that's like the the extent of 1058 00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,200 the design. Thoughts. 1059 00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:03,760 I hope not, but if you were making, if you were making a 1060 00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:08,280 decision based on true biomechanical knowledge, I just 1061 00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:11,160 don't see why you would design A shoe with that feature. 1062 00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,640 Unfortunately, my arguments with developers, they've been like, 1063 00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:17,840 well, when you like have the soul flare extends ground 1064 00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,080 contact time. So if you're only looking at 1065 00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:22,760 ground reaction forces, it doesn't look like. 1066 00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,320 So for those who don't know, when you land on the ground, 1067 00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,160 there's something called ground reaction forces. 1068 00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:30,160 And when you're picking up forces like force plates and 1069 00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:33,080 trying to measure this stuff, that's the primary variable that 1070 00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:34,920 you look at that you can extrapolate to other stuff. 1071 00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,960 So if you look at this, most heel strikers when they land, 1072 00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:40,360 though, it's going to be an initial impact peak and it looks 1073 00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:43,240 at this very sharp thing and then there's a second one as the 1074 00:54:43,240 --> 00:54:45,600 rest of your body comes down. And a long time people were like 1075 00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:49,200 some we people thought, oh, that's why there's like all 1076 00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,240 these running injuries. And it turns out that's actually 1077 00:54:51,240 --> 00:54:53,440 not true. And actually like force level 1078 00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,080 isn't actually as relevant to running injuries. 1079 00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:58,960 There's actually some like bivariate like these variations 1080 00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:01,960 of calculations, like these sub variables that they may think 1081 00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:05,760 now, but body ground reaction forces aren't very predictive of 1082 00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,920 running injuries. And so they thought that hey, if 1083 00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:12,560 you extend the soul flare way back and you actually lengthen 1084 00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:16,080 the ground contact time, oh look, that peak is smoother. 1085 00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:19,560 But that's because you're only looking at like forces, but 1086 00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:21,640 you're not actually thinking about how they're being applied 1087 00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:25,600 to the body. And this goes back to you can't 1088 00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,880 think about 1 variable. It's how do all these pieces 1089 00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:33,360 interact together? Which Speaking of which, I think 1090 00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:35,600 we have time briefly for one more. 1091 00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,280 Do you think? Yeah, OK, I think we can do this 1092 00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:40,720 because I think we're going to agree, or at least I think maybe 1093 00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:44,000 I'm wrong. But the last one is the on cloud 1094 00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,560 Monster 3 Hyper, which our team I think has been universally 1095 00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:51,440 loving after dumping on on which you're getting really frustrated 1096 00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:53,800 with on shoes a lot of stuff. This has been excellent. 1097 00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:57,000 So why don't you go again, as always, Andrea, and say, hey, 1098 00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:58,920 what did you really like about this shoe? 1099 00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:02,560 And then I'll follow you because man, it's been a really. 1100 00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:06,200 And the LS is is awesome too, although it's just really 1101 00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,360 expensive. So I've got to say that most on 1102 00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:11,600 shoes fit me really well. They have this. 1103 00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:14,320 Sorry, Peanut, almost fell off the bed there. 1104 00:56:18,240 --> 00:56:21,720 Edit that out, please. Yeah, on shoes fit me really 1105 00:56:21,720 --> 00:56:25,000 well. They've got a nice wide toe box. 1106 00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:28,400 It's usually not super tapered in the toe, so I can be pretty 1107 00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:31,400 confident that I'm going to like the fit of on shoes. 1108 00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:36,400 I've loved the cloud Boom E3 and the Cloud boom cloud Boom strike 1109 00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:40,040 as racing shoes recently. I really liked the cloud Boom 1110 00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:43,640 Vault as like an easy run super shoe. 1111 00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:51,320 The original Cloud Monster Hyper was one of my I wouldn't say 1112 00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:55,800 favorite, but one of them just high stack super trainer for 1113 00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,440 easy running. But the phone was bouncy enough 1114 00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:00,880 that like I didn't just have to like slog in it. 1115 00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:03,400 I could do like kind of normal easy pace too. 1116 00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,600 So this was a really exciting update because the one thing 1117 00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:08,840 about the hyper it was pretty bulky. 1118 00:57:09,720 --> 00:57:13,600 It was on the heavier side. This you can do a lot like I've 1119 00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:17,640 used it for strides and really did not feel like it was holding 1120 00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,400 me back at all. I never would have done that in 1121 00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:22,760 the original Cloud Monster Hyper. 1122 00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:25,400 It's really well designed for me. 1123 00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:29,120 I think this is a 7mm drop shoe, is that right? 1124 00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:32,040 It's I think there's various sources. 1125 00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:35,600 Yeah, it was 6 stack height is 45 millimeters in the heel, 39 1126 00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:37,880 in the four foot. But I've also seen some 1127 00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:38,640 different. Sources. 1128 00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:41,200 So that's right, yeah, we had to update our review. 1129 00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:48,880 It's lower it's not yeah, let's just say 6 for the drop. 5 or 6. 1130 00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:51,600 Yep. So works really nicely for 1131 00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:55,520 midfoot striking. I've used it for easy runs, long 1132 00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:59,600 runs, use it for any workouts just because it is not the 1133 00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:02,840 lightest shoe. But this shoe just eats up miles 1134 00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:06,880 and it's so comfortable. It's firm, which I like, but 1135 00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:10,840 it's still bouncy and which I also like, which makes it really 1136 00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,200 able to pick up the pace when you need to. 1137 00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:17,000 So, you know, most runners who are training for something have 1138 00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:21,520 easy runs where you're throwing in strides or like 24 or 1139 00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:26,040 pickups, and you can't do that in a lot of these like really 1140 00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:29,280 bulky super trainers. But this is a shoe that you can 1141 00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:31,320 do that. It really can pick up the pace, 1142 00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:36,720 super durable. I probably have like 35 miles on 1143 00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:38,560 mine. You can see it's dirty but 1144 00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:43,040 really not worn anywhere. So I've loved it. 1145 00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:48,640 I've been continuing to get miles in it, so we'll see how 1146 00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:51,320 long it lasts. I've had the same experience 1147 00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:54,840 where up love the upper it's on the wider side and it actually 1148 00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:57,360 fits true to size now where I felt like the last version was 1149 00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:59,680 like should I have gone 1/2 size down? 1150 00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:03,200 Does it fit long Is it? I also hated the last word and 1151 00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:06,360 David loved it. I I disliked I just didn't feel 1152 00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:08,840 like he was bouncy and was like it's so fast. 1153 00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:10,920 I'm like I feel like I can barely do easy runs in this 1154 00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:12,600 shooting. Just something it was stable, 1155 00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:14,880 just something didn't transition well with it. 1156 00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:18,000 And this has been the exact opposite where upper super 1157 00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:21,000 comfortable great amount of room in the 4 foot people with a 1158 00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:22,600 little bit wider feet. I think this is going to do 1159 00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:25,280 really, really well because the upper also is has some stretch 1160 00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:26,720 and you can adjust the laces really well. 1161 00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:28,680 The sole like you said, was great. 1162 00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:32,920 It's the best balance of bounce and without being mushy with 1163 00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:35,920 just like that touch of firmness that like still great for long 1164 00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:39,440 runs great for easy runs. I have done several progression 1165 00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:41,320 runs in this shoe on the treadmill and it's done 1166 00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:45,640 fantastic down to animals, like getting down to like 53520 pace. 1167 00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:49,200 And I'm like, that's awesome, I can do this, this is great. 1168 00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:51,920 And then durability. I think I have 60-70 miles in 1169 00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:53,920 this thing. And again, for those who are 1170 00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:57,080 watching on YouTube, you hopefully know and you can see 1171 00:59:57,320 --> 00:59:59,800 the outs are still intact. Most shoes don't last so long 1172 00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:02,800 for me. So yeah, it's holding up really 1173 01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:04,000 well. You're definitely gonna get your 1174 01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,040 miles. Out of the shoe, but like 1175 01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:09,320 another shoe that would make me go, Hey, you want to race a 1176 01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:11,960 marathon and some of the Super aggressive light racing shoes 1177 01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:13,640 aren't working. I think this is a good one that 1178 01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:16,680 you can be your do it all shoe. That could be your your long 1179 01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:19,240 run, your easy run, your marathon ratio. 1180 01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:21,480 I think that's another one just because it's got the snappiness 1181 01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:25,200 to be able to have that and really stable neutral. 1182 01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:28,760 Like it's worked super well for me where the sidewalls come up 1183 01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:31,000 really high without getting in the in the way. 1184 01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:34,560 And then the combination of the the midsole foam, the was it 1185 01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:39,760 Helion on HF encased into the Eva bottom layer, I think just 1186 01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,760 creates this nice kind of cradle around that's been good without 1187 01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:45,560 being a full on stability shoe, but still being stable enough 1188 01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:49,000 that I do long runs and I'm it's totally fun. 1189 01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:51,920 So it's yeah. And I think again, same thing, 1190 01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:54,360 like some on shoes haven't been the greatest at this, but 1191 01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:57,360 they've done better where this is a really nice heel bubble 1192 01:00:57,680 --> 01:00:58,760 that kind of does all the things. 1193 01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:01,560 Yeah, there's a it flares back a little bit, but it's comes up 1194 01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:03,800 enough that like your landing point is still underneath where 1195 01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:07,760 your heel is, which is great. Just nice transition. 1196 01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:11,520 It's great. It's fine and really 1197 01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:13,280 comfortable. Yeah, this upper is great. 1198 01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:15,800 But on like you said, on uppers are usually really, really good. 1199 01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:18,840 I have not. I have not had many that were a 1200 01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:20,960 problem. Like great example of this. 1201 01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:25,800 Gosh, I can see it right now. The on cloud boom Max we're like 1202 01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:31,840 upper was so comfortable and I hated the sole so much. 1203 01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:34,720 I was like I just let me stand in the shoe as long as I don't 1204 01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:36,760 have to move in it. It's so comfortable. 1205 01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:38,240 I loved. That shoe for. 1206 01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:42,080 Recovery, I know. I have one comment about why you 1207 01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:44,520 probably didn't like the original Cloud Boom Hyper. 1208 01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:47,280 I don't know if you have your pair back there, but then. 1209 01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:50,560 Oh, I don't think I do anymore. No, not anymore. 1210 01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:54,640 I'll show on here. So similar design. 1211 01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:59,440 You know, you have the Helion HF and then you had the Eva, Eva 1212 01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:03,160 pods. But on the original the pods 1213 01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:05,680 were not ace. They were not symmetrically 1214 01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:09,760 placed medially and laterally they came up higher on the 1215 01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:13,480 lateral side. So they actually were somewhat 1216 01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:16,960 laterally biased in the midfoot and forefoot because it was 1217 01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:22,000 stiffer on the lateral side. So I remember that was I think I 1218 01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:26,080 wrote like the DPT about it or something, but that was one of 1219 01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:28,720 the reasons I thought I liked that shoe so much. 1220 01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:33,600 And you did not because of how the they use the stiffness of 1221 01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:36,680 that foam to control motion a little bit I. 1222 01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:40,760 Just felt like I couldn't get what I was hoping to out of that 1223 01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:44,560 shoe. I was like, but yeah. 1224 01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:46,240 It was also a little bulky, yeah. 1225 01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:50,040 It was, yeah. So, OK, so let's see, we had 1226 01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:53,880 mostly similar opinions, although for different reasons, 1227 01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:57,640 similar reasons, actually similar experience with the ASIC 1228 01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:00,480 super blast three. We had polar opposite 1229 01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:04,640 experiences with the Puma Deviate natural 84 just based on 1230 01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:07,360 our mechanics. You know, we actually had very 1231 01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:12,640 similar experiences with the on Cloud Monster Hyper 33 Hyper. 3 1232 01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:17,080 Hyper. 3 Hyper, 3 hyper, gosh, the names, gosh. 1233 01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:20,320 So yeah, not as many disagreements this time as 1234 01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:22,120 around. So maybe we'll have to come back 1235 01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:24,240 and have maybe some of the soccer issues coming up. 1236 01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:26,720 We'll have some more polarizing experiences, which I'm hoping 1237 01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:28,000 not. I really hope that I like the 1238 01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:31,120 Hyperion Elite three. I can just see myself being that 1239 01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:33,920 like the the black sheep that like just like that also hates 1240 01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:36,120 it and everybody else loves it on the the podcast. 1241 01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:39,440 But it's OK. Yeah, it's fine. 1242 01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:41,560 Yeah. And you know, when you look at 1243 01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:45,360 the design of the three shoes we design we discussed today, this 1244 01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:49,360 probably is the most stable neutral shoe of the three. 1245 01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:53,200 So it kind of makes sense that out of the three you and I would 1246 01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:58,720 agree on it because it doesn't have any like specific stability 1247 01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:03,240 features in any One Direction. Yeah, so our big question for 1248 01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:05,920 all of you is so those posting on YouTube or of any ammo 1249 01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:08,440 comments, any questions or thoughts, let us know what you 1250 01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:10,000 think. Is there one person that you 1251 01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:12,840 kind of gravitate to or you having a completely different 1252 01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:15,360 experience than the two of us? Please let us know because the 1253 01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:18,040 goal is to go, Hey, can you hypothesize about possibly why 1254 01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:21,000 We talked about some of the reasons right where we land, how 1255 01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:23,000 we load the shoe, personal preferences. 1256 01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:25,120 These are all things that you need to think about. 1257 01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:28,080 And yes, companies are going to market stuff, but you are not 1258 01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:31,160 the same even as your running buddy, as your sibling, as like 1259 01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:33,960 everybody else, everybody has very unique ways of their move. 1260 01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:35,280 It's so unique. In fact, it's actually more 1261 01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:38,240 unique than your fingerprints. So this is what we're trying to 1262 01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:40,320 share with you is go, hey, what are things? 1263 01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:43,160 What are different experiences? What might yours be? 1264 01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:45,440 And hopefully you learn something from this and can 1265 01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:48,720 figure out some stuff for you. So as always, you can find us on 1266 01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:52,000 a variety of different places. These podcast episodes are out 1267 01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:54,480 on a variety of different places where you listen to podcasts and 1268 01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:56,240 then you get to put on YouTube if you want to see them 1269 01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:58,280 visually. We also have all kinds of other 1270 01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:00,320 stuff coming out on those platforms and many social 1271 01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:02,720 platforms. The primary place you're going 1272 01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:04,480 to find most of our content is our website at 1273 01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:06,920 doctorsrunning.com. We put up the majority of our 1274 01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:08,720 reviews. Lots of you ask, hey, you didn't 1275 01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:11,840 do this video review, whatever. Guarantee we did a written 1276 01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:13,320 review. We're a little old school. 1277 01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:14,560 We still like the written stuff, right? 1278 01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:16,880 We still put out some videos, but the written areas where 1279 01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:18,760 you're going to find most of the stuff and most stuff that we're 1280 01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:20,440 thinking about and the stuff that we're putting on our feet. 1281 01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:23,000 Thank you for listening again, hope this was helpful. 1282 01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:24,880 Leave a comment below or wherever you can. 1283 01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:28,320 This is helpful and if you have some additional thoughts but 1284 01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:31,040 enjoy this, I hope it helped you with wherever you were listening 1285 01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:32,920 to it and we will talk to you soon.