Hey everyone, and welcome to the Doctors Running podcast where
we, a group of doctors, physical therapy, talk about the art and
the science. The things that we put on our
feet today is Andrea and I, and we're going to have a between 2
shoes podcast. We're going to talk about some
shoes that ironically, I mean, one of them, I don't know.
One of them I think we actually agree on, but things may have
changed. So we're hoping, as always, that
we disagree and you can find out a little bit more about where
we're coming from so that you can understand what to look for
for yourself as an individual. Right?
Everybody has different experiences.
Our job today is to help explore those differences from our own
experiences and then to help you learn some things that maybe you
can apply to your own experiences.
As always though, we're going to start off with our In for
Testing section that's sponsored by Scratch Labs.
And Andrea, what should you have in for testing right now?
Well, today I did my first Test run in the Diadora Mesafando
Spike. Have you run in yours yet?
I've walked around in it. My Achilles has actually gotten
just good enough where I actually think I could try a
track workout in spikes, but not yet.
All right, I'm about ready to. So this is their mid distance
spike. They say it's for 800 to 10K.
It's got their Enema PBX midsole in it.
It's 5.7 oz and a men size 9. I have kind of been taking a
break from the track between indoor and outdoor seasons.
Got back on the track last week and today I just used these for
some strides because of course, when you haven't been running in
spikes for a little bit, you don't just want to jump back
into a full workout in them. So they felt pretty good.
I'm not sure that I'm going to like them for the 800, but I
might like them for the mile. They feel a little bit too
cushioned, if you will, for an 800 and like for sprinting.
But I could definitely see using these for a mile or if I was
ever crazy enough to do like a track 5K or 10K, which I
definitely don't think that I would be.
I would consider using these. They've got a really sharp toe
spring, as you can see, so they really put you up on your toes
and that typically works with my running style.
But I just I've never gotten along with spikes that are this
severe with their toe spring. My go to spike is the Nike
victory to spike and it doesn't really have a sharp rocker at
all, but it's got those air pods up front.
So I'm going to give them a, you know, fighting chance.
I'll test them with some mile and 800 pace intervals in the
next few weeks, but the V2 spike is definitely still my favorite
so far. I I will say back back in
college, I did actually run 5 mostly 5K10 KS and only wore
spikes. And I had a pair of the original
Brooks the wire, which varies somewhat very aggressive toe
spray. And I found I could not I could
not run like 15 hundreds and didn't really have a kick at the
end of five KS. But like the 10K you just a
little bit more there for a lot of track spikes.
So like especially in that day and age that toe spring a little
bit extra there was great for longer distance struggled quite
a bit with the shorter. Stuff yeah, and that's
definitely what I felt today on my stride.
So yeah, we'll we'll see. It could be a great, you know,
it more of a true mid to long distance spike rather than like
throwing the 800 in there too. The other issue I've been
getting miles on is the Hoka Skyward X2, which I know you're
also running in. I actually really liked the
original Skyward XI, found it heavy and a little clunky, but
it was nice for just like shuffling miles.
This is actually a really nice upgrade on the original version.
It's lighter I think. I can't remember the official
specs, but you mentioned your pair is about 1/2 an ounce
lighter, right? Yeah, than the previous version,
yeah. The foam feels a little more
resilient. It's definitely it has a less
dense bouncier feel to it which I like.
The agreed. The only thing that is keeping
me from running longer in it is like mini Hokas.
It's pretty tight across the toe box and low volume and I
definitely feel some pinching on my first and 5th MTPS and a
little bit of pinching on top of my big toe.
So my runs have been like 3 to 4 miles each in this shoe and I
probably wouldn't want to take it longer than that just because
of foot discomfort. But definitely a nice foam
upgrade and the weight improvement is also noticeable.
So my I don't know if this is correct because I remember
getting something different not so long ago, but my measuring my
pair right now, my size 10 is 10.3 oz or about 290 grams.
That is significantly lighter. I can't remember what I
originally got the original 1 on, but yeah, that's a lot
lighter. That's really solid, especially
for how much minsol. But now they did cut they
actually decreased the stack guide I think by 2mm.
So I think it was totally worth it.
And I would agree great for training runs here.
I've already got 70 miles on my pair.
I've just really enjoyed it. Like wow, I didn't expect like
that toe box, man, it really comes in and part of it was I
found myself slipping. So when I locked my heel in,
which I haven't had to do. It's gotten better, but I have
definitely had several toe blisters from this shoe.
Everything else has been has been really solid, but man, just
blister city for sure in that 4/4.
So the exact same experience. And I know that the skyward X
comes in a wide so I wonder if that would take care of our
problem. But often I find that wide shoes
aren't actually wider, they just make the toe box higher volume.
And I definitely need the skyward to be wider in the
forefoot. Yeah.
Yeah, I think it's often times. And so there's actually a
difference. I don't know if this is still
the same, but back not too long ago when I was ordering stuff
from Japan, Japan lasts their shapes.
If they did a wide, the forefoot was the major thing that got
wider. the US often times will make the midfoot heel wider, but
not a specific part of the shoe. So that's why I've always had to
say with wides here because often times just like you, I'm
like give me a little more room in the forefoot.
But then when I've tried it, it's been like, well, now this
is baggy because it don't actually have like a high volume
wide foot. I just want more room in the
forefoot. So now I've got to like I'm
sliding around. So I think if you have a higher
volume foot, the wide might be good.
The toe box might just be what it is.
So it is what it is. Yeah.
Well. Thanks Hoka, I guess it is
better than the original. It is, yeah.
Just if Hoka opened up the toe box of their shoes just a little
bit, there would be so many shoes of theirs that would be on
my favorites list. Yeah, that's all it took to
ruin. Wow.
Sorry. All right.
Anything else? That you had.
I know you didn't get these yet. But I have a whole tons of bot
stuff just came in and everybody on the like Midwest, East Coast
gets everything. David and I oftentimes in the
West Coast are the last people to get things.
So we're just like, that looks cool.
So we're like we're living vicariously through you.
So. I came home to a tower of
Saucony boxes on my port on Friday so I got the Endorphin
Elite 3. Deb, you tried it yet?
I've walked around in it. I I'd already done my run on
Friday. I didn't run yesterday and had
my track workout today. So no got it.
But look at this nice squared off toe box.
This shoe is so comfortable walking around.
I mean comfortable in terms of fit.
It is wild. I actually have not had like a
walking around in a shoe experience like I did in the
shoe since the original vapor fly.
Like when I got the vapor fly, I was like like, wow, this is a
different shoe. Like this shoe feels like I'm on
like a Pogo stick. That's how I feel walking around
the shoe. I cannot wait to run in it
because I know the fits going to be comfortable because of this
beautiful toe box. It's so bouncy, like it's
ridiculously bouncy just walking around the house.
So I'm I'll let you guys know how it feels, but I have pretty
high hopes for the shoe. I feel like that's that's high
praise in and of itself. Obviously got to run it, but
like especially with now that back in the day, the vapor
flight like there was nothing like that.
In today's age, every company has a super shoe and then you
and I especially we spend so much time.
I wonder how sometimes I wonder how much we get desensitized.
So to be like, have something that OK, now I'm really excited.
Let's see what happens. The last the last version was so
bouncy and unstable, even though tactically it was loudly biased.
I just couldn't. I managed to get through 100
miles, but I, I never raced in it cuz I'm like, I just can't.
Yeah, I just, it was, I was stubborn enough to want to like
just keep going, but it just never worked for me even after
100 miles. But I'm really curious to see
what happens with this new stuff.
But Endorphin Elite 2 was David's favorite shoe for a
while, right? So it was.
Yeah. Interesting hearing his
comparisons. Yeah, so you might hate it.
So we'll see what happens. I got two other shoes from
Saucony, so another new release of theirs is the Paramount Max,
which look at this shoe, it is a beast.
Yeah, I looked up the specs. I don't.
Know. I guess they weren't kidding on
the name. Yeah, I don't have the specs
pulled up any. I think the heels definitely
over 40. I think it's like 46 or 43 maybe
this shoe all so this shoe has Increderone, which is the same
material that Endorphin Elite 3 has.
This shoe similarly feels very soft, not quite as bouncy as
Endorphin Elite three. I'm sure that they're using a
slightly different makeup of Increderon.
My first impression just walking around in it is this feels like
just a massive shoe. I'm not sure how much I'm I will
reserve judgement until I actually run in it, but this is
like I have so many shoes in my house and this is clearly like
the largest shoe that I own. Even compared to the Skyward X.
Yes, look at that. I mean like look at the heel of
that versus it's very wide. Look at that wide base.
Yeah. So this could, I'm guessing this
is probably going to end up feeling somewhat stable neutral
as long as the foam isn't too soft, just because of how wide
it is. I mean, that's a really wide
rear foot. It doesn't taper much here and
then it's just insanely wide in the forefoot.
So we'll see if it feels comfortable.
A lot of socket issues. I get kind of a similar MTP
pinching that I do in Hokas and I didn't feel it walking around
in these. So excited to test those.
And then the last one that came in my Saucony tower is the
Triumph 24. Yeah, this shoe has incredible
locks. Which is their is that Eva or
TP? I can't remember.
They probably don't. Need.
Ideas. Yeah, no, similarly, this shoe
feels ridiculously soft, like just walking around.
I kind of have a feeling it's going to be too soft for me.
It's so soft I would not want to walk in it because of how much
the heel compresses just walking around.
OK, I might it might be no per this I believe it is an ATPU.
OK, Yeah, it's so it's softer than Incredirun and and this
shoe feels softer than Paramount Max just walking around.
And of course, shoes feel 100% different walking than running.
So if the forefoot is a little bit firmer, I might end up
liking the shoe or Paramount Max.
But they're both super, super soft.
This toe box is definitely a little tighter than Paramount
Max. You can see it's lower volume.
So might give me kind of my typical Saucony fit issue, but
hopefully not. So yeah, lots of lots of
exciting new shoes to test. I'm going.
To call, call Bach out because the the triumph is one thing.
Bach and I, obviously it's the stability.
People are really excited because the the new hurricane
came out, which I believe the hurricane also has incredible
locks. And Bach was like on on Friday.
He's like, Matt, have you gotten any?
I'm like, no, I haven't gotten anything yet.
He goes, this might be the stability shoe of the year.
And I'm like, OK, now I'm really excited to see what happens.
But he's like, I'm not sure yet if it's too soft for stability
shoes. So yeah, Sockety's doing the the
foams. They're doing some wild stuff it
looks like. So I'm very curious to see what
happens this year. Yeah.
So, yeah. And it we are definitely in a
transition period where companies are done like
promoting their Peeba midsole shoes as their flagship shoes or
top of the line shoes and really getting more creative with these
super critical TPU or TPEE. So we're entering a new phase of
running shoe technology, which is really exciting.
Yep, this should be really exciting.
Well, I don't actually have that much to add because to be
honest, the shoes that you and I are going to discuss in just a
second are similar to what I'm running in.
The only exception other than the Skyward X2, which we talked
about, I've got a ton of miles on it.
I'm hoping to get to 100 miles and I'm hoping this outsole
lasts. So far, so good.
The only other one that I'm still getting miles on that's
holding up really well is the 361 Flame 5, which as I've
broken this in, it's definitely not the lightish like racer out
there. This has always been there more
kind of racer trainer shoe where you can use it for workouts.
So it's got the durability. Durability is this.
There's no dense. I've got like 40 ish miles on my
pair and I have not taken anything off this outsole.
Like this thing is made of like steel.
It's not actually but the more I break it in I'm.
My only issue with this shoe is the heel counter is so hard and
unprotected that it does leave me with some unirritated
Achilles after every time. But man this is the closest
thing to a mild stability racer out there.
Like it's noticeable. It's not like, oh, this is like
stable neutral. The plate and the foam comes up
enough. I'm like I feel it in my arch
and my post HIB totally quiet no matter what workout I'm doing.
It's like during and then also afterwards a lot of tendon
stuff. It's like the afterwards, the
flare up that happened, it's completely quiet in this shoe.
And so I think we're kind of, we have just accidentally gotten
back to like back in the day when there actually were
stability racers, they were always heavier than all the the
neutral racers. So we actually now have the
guests. So at least people that want
that. I'm going to get a full review
up. But it it's got the durability,
it's got the stability there. Just be aware that if you're
sensitive to a higher arch, the plate really does dig into your
medial arch. But if that's something you
want, we actually have one thing and that's about it.
So it's been really solid. Just that heel counters really
harsh for me. So trying to work through that.
But outside of that been a pleasant surprise especially.
It's 169 bucks too. So like credible durability.
I've done 5K workouts in it and yeah, it's not the lightest
thing, but it's still responds. So you know, now those of us
that need some stability, we do have an option.
It's not the sexiest thing out there, but it's going to keep
you going so. You know, when I'm talking to
bike fit clients, sometimes we have to do things to their bikes
that don't like look perfect or the idea of like your bars are
supposed to be as low as possible.
Well, not everyone can ride like that, but my point for them is
it doesn't matter what your bike looks like if you're comfortable
and you're riding away from other people.
Similarly with running shoes, it doesn't really matter what it
looks like or how heavy it is if it results in you being
comfortable and running fast times, right?
So Speaking of like looking good, so that we're gonna this
episode is sponsored by the way, by rabbit apparel.
So we've still got some really great stuff for them.
So that we really want to talk about the ice, the sun and ice
collection, which is basically inspired by Katy Perrys hot and
cold song. I'm just kidding.
It's not that's probably copyright infringements.
Please, people don't sue us. That was a joke.
OK, I'm sorry. The sun and ice collection's
supposed to be like dealing with hotter temperatures.
So we start getting into the summer months and then the ice
is to keep you cool. So I'm wearing the low tide,
which I've looked at low tide shirts from Rabbit for a long
time and never bought them because I'm like, I don't really
know what it's like 75 bucks, right?
It's not the cheapest thing out there.
I've already got the high country and it also looks more
like kind of a Hawaiian shirt, which where I'm in kind of need
more formal stuff. And I've worn it students and
patients of both been like, that's a really nice, my shirt,
I'm like, that's great, OK, great.
So I've still been able to wear it clinically.
It's also super light, which is really, really nice.
So we have two codes. If you still see this, you're
not going to see this in April. So there's no point for me to
say the April code, the May code for Rabbit, if you want 10% off
orders of $50 or more is May Docs 10, MAYDOC S10, all one
thing, all capitalized, 10% off. Andrew, how you got the easy?
Remind me the name of that shirt?
The go to crew, it's a really nice sweatshirt.
The material insides really soft, nice relaxed fit.
You can't see it in the video, but like more of a cropped fit
so it looks, you know, you could wear it like to a cafe or
something. It doesn't look like a sloppy
sweatshirt. I also got one of those low Tide
shirts and I was going to wear it for our recording today, but
after a week of temperatures in the 80s, it's now in the 40s.
So it's too cold for me to be wearing a short sleeve shirt in
the house. Yes, got it.
The fun of temperature oscillations.
We had this similar thing in Oregon where like it was up to
like 70s, almost 80s, and then it dropped back down to the Fort
and like, really, I thought I'd have to go dig out like the
hoodie and all the warm stuff again.
But yeah, I get it. You, I can't complain though.
And in Connecticut, you have probably much larger temperature
variations that we have. So yeah, it's I, it may have
snowed in like the northern part of the state, so I'm glad we
don't live up there. That's fair.
We didn't even get snow this year.
So all right, so let's get on to the main part of this, which is
our discussion about a few different shoes.
We're going to see how many we can get through the how.
Which one do you want to do first?
Let's do the one that we disagreed on the most.
So I do think that was the Super Blast 3.
So we'll have to see. OK, so the purpose of Super
Blast three, do you have specs? By the way, this is the newest
version of ASIC Super Trainer. There's a kind of a it's things
have got a little confusing now because they have a few, they
have the Mega Blast, the Sonic Blast, which I didn't really
like. They have the Super Blast and
honestly my favorite recently was the Mega Blast because the
like they, they completely redid the Super blast 3, right?
This has been a very classic shoe.
It's it's, it's the pinnacle and it always will be the pinnacle
super trainer. It was one of the first ones
that came out. It really grabbed people's
attention. People really liked it.
It's been a common shoe that I have suggested for people going,
I want to go race a marathon. What super shoe should I get?
And like, honestly, your your mechanics and some of the things
that hear history is saying a super racing shoe, one of the
really aggressive ones is probably not going to be the
best option. You're going to want a super
trainer. So I think this shoe does great
because despite not having a plate, it is like all of these
were all of these that it is very stiff, so very snappy.
It's got a super, very large amount of super foam.
This one uses flight foam blast leap, which is the incredibly
soft. This is the softest super blast
I've ever experienced. And I actually did not get along
with the shoe. The first like 50 plus miles,
but I'm like, I got to get miles on this because it's a super
blast. And I want to try to get 100
mile review because I'm hoping I actually we can actually get
some decent views from that. But yeah, we had some
interesting experience with it. I actually think some of our
experience are very similar at the beginning, but we may have
diverged. So Andrea, tell us a little bit.
Tell us a little bit more about the specs, and then let's dive
into our different experiences. See if we can explore why that
happens. All right, so this shoe is 8.4
oz 239 grams for men size 9. Don't have the specs for women's
stack height is 46.5 in the heel, 38.5 in the forefoot.
Gives it an 8mm drop and it's a $200 shoe.
So I did not test the original super blast.
ASIC sent me the Super blast too but I found the forefoot to be
way too tight. Like I can run a mile in it so.
Version one, version 1 was very similar in that regard.
It had that same like tapered toe guard where you're like, I
probably should get a half size up but then the stiffness is
going to hit me in the wrong place and it's going to feel
awkward. I actually did try 1/2 size up
of somebody else's and I'm like it's so stiff.
I can't. It's like trying to get over a
board and so I ended up going true to size but keep going but.
You guys rave about Super Blast 1 and 2 so much that you know I
didn't want to miss out on the party.
So I had high hopes when version three showed up that maybe this
one would fit better. And it did.
Toe box much wider. There's enough volume that I
didn't have any like fit related discomfort.
No, my issue with this shoe is how soft the forefoot is.
So when I was running in it, you know, I, I test it mostly for
easy miles, but I would take it on like some easy runs where I'd
do some pickups around like threshold pace.
And I just felt like I was sinking into the medial forefoot
here and just getting stuck. And the other feature of the
shoe that actually in a way made it worse.
This shoe has a lot of forefoot sole flare on the lateral side,
which pushes you immediately. And typically I do well with
that design, but when it's pushing you immediately and then
you're sinking into the medial forefoot.
And I'm somebody who doesn't have a lot of ankle E version or
pronation. So if you have a shoe that's
pushing you into pronation and then you're sinking in, well,
your body is going to steal motion from someplace else.
And for me that meant that my hip internally rotated and I
started getting IT and pain from running in the shoe.
So definitely was not going to keep running it in it in it to
see if it got better. But the softness of the forefoot
definitely killed it for me. Yeah, so I had a similar
experience where the fit, this is the best fitting super blast
of any of the versions. The four foot is finally not as
tapered. Definitely got a it's a little
bit wider fit, which is way more comfortable, which just makes
sense to me because I'm like you're probably going to take
this for like marathon or long, long run workouts.
You probably want to have enough room up there because you're
talking about even if you don't, maybe you have a narrow foot
like you're worried about blisters with the toe box
taping, tapering and your feet are going to swell with over
long distance. You want to, I would think you'd
want a little more room. This fixes it.
I've had no issues with slip into the upper.
The tongue sits really really well, which is really nice.
No challenges. I had issues with the sole just
like you. I found the entire midsole way
too soft. This is the first super blaster.
I'm like this is not stable neutral anymore and I know
Nathan has mentioned that. On the medial side, I think it's
FF blast plus is the bottom layer and then FF leap on the
top. There is this little triangle
that comes up into the medial arch that Nathan apparently
felt. I didn't feel that at all.
I, I my first couple runs in the shoe like I'd same thing.
We're like lateral hip. IT band was kind of bugging me.
It felt like I was sinking into the whole shoe and just there
was no bounce. And I remember the first run I
tried to really pick up the pace, I was struggling.
And by the end I, my, my legs, my hips were so sore.
All the things are like I'm trying to stabilize myself in
this shoe. It was so soft.
So I think if you have stiffer mechanics and you want a really
soft shoe, this is going to be great.
If you're coming from previous Super Blast where they weren't
the softest shoe, a lot of them were like firmer, snappier,
bouncier, but not soft. This went the exact opposite
direction. And Andrea, I had the same
experience where the lateral sole player was just so rough
for me because I was getting pivoted.
So all of my muscles that control pronation, my post tip,
all that kind of my deep hip rotators, they were just getting
worked. And it made it really difficult
to do long runs and to try to go up tempo in the shoe.
It's like I could get through some easy runs, but it just felt
like the versatility had dropped.
Now again, as I mentioned, also a shoe reviewer.
So I'm like I'm just going to suffer through this and try to
get miles on this and then I'll complain about it at the 100
mile review. So I haven't done the 100 mile
review yet, but I have about 115 miles in my pair and they have
drastically improved and it took about 50-60 miles.
And I think it's because the foam started to settle, which is
both good but also not good given the price range that you
would want the durability. But if you like that softness,
you would expect it to stay there for long periods of time.
It doesn't. It starts to settle.
And this, there's actually some evidence on a lot of the Super
shoes out there. If you compare a lot of these
newer PBA ATPU foams compared to Eva, yes, when they start,
they're super bouncy, super resilient.
But after about like 100, like a hundred 150 miles, they often
times have very similar resiliency and compliance rates
to Eva. So I forgot I need to go find
the study that was talking about that.
Like that's really interesting and I'm embarrassed I can't cite
it right now, but that's kind of how it feels where this thing
has it's super light. My size 10 is 8 1/2 oz, which
that's really light. And it's one of these things
where I'm like, if you like bouncy, this is a great super
racial alternative that I think a lot of recreational runners or
people that just don't do well in the aggressive super racing
shoes. Great option.
It now that it's firmed up a little bit, it's snappy.
It's still not the best shoe in my opinion for like intervals.
Like I wouldn't take this shoe for a 10K like I wouldn't even
think about it for 1/2 marathon. I'd still want something a
marathon. I now that it is where it is, I
would be considerate more of it. And I think it's because the
foam because I've crushed that lateral aspect so much, it
started to break in. So the sole flare isn't
bothering me as much. So I've been able to do some
longer long runs now, feel OK in it up temple runs feel OK from
it, but it's just still a little too soft for me to want to do
anything faster than I was able to do in version 2 or even
version 1. So I think we're having similar
experiences, but I was stubborn enough to try to like keep going
and try just because I want that 100 mile review.
But I don't think it's that different of an experience
because again, didn't matter because we landed very different
places. I think it's still having the
same thing. So interesting, I'm the only
other shoe that I've run in with flight foam.
Leap is the meta speed Tokyo or no Paris?
No Tokyo Edge. Yeah.
And I probably have 30 miles on that pair, so not enough to
again, like really wear it out. But I know that you guys have
put a ton of miles on your pair. Did you find that the Flight
Foam Leap did the same thing? I found the actually.
I didn't realize that, so you mentioned it.
I was super disappointed. I didn't like the.
I haven't done as well with the the not the, the edge, the sky
since the original version, but same thing where the edge the
the Tokyo edge. I was like, man, the 1st 50
miles, I'm like disappointed. I had blisters.
I didn't feel like I could pick up the pace.
And then something happened around 5060 miles where it just
got way more snapping. And I think it's just that super
compliant. Mitzel just compressed enough
for that. It actually matched my body.
Somebody made a great comment about this on YouTube.
They're going Matt, because I, I did a top got 3 super shoes and
I added this in there now, not earlier.
And they mentioned Matt, do you know if it's the foam
compressing or is it your you are learning the shoe and both
those could be really possible. But the fact is that it's now
happened twice with two different flight foam leap shoes
where I think it just took the I think part of it's me learning
the shoe, but part of it's also like you're right.
I think the foam has to compress enough to optimize to get it to
a certain level where it's like not so mushy that I can actually
run through it. Cuz I'm just realizing this.
I had the same feeling where the edge, I would try to run it, I
just couldn't get it. I just didn't feel like I was
getting anything out of it. It just felt like I sunk into
the shoe, struggled to get out of it and then all of a sudden
one run I'm like where did this come from?
Interesting. So yeah, yeah, my experience in
the Edge, I liked how the foam felt.
It felt very bouncy. I loved it for like 5K10K pace
intervals. But my problem with it was the
whole midsole felt like it operated as one block.
And if I ran on like sidewalks around here disappear all the
time. So you're like hopping off the
road onto the grass on the sidewalk.
So if I landed on any surface that wasn't perfectly flat my
foot would just slide with the upper.
Like I it felt like I was easily going to sprain my ankle in that
shoe if I landed on anything less than perfectly flat because
of how blocky the midsole was. But I do wonder if I kept
running in it, would it maybe break in and I'd feel like it
gave a little bit with my mechanics.
It's a good question. What's Yeah.
What's crazy is this, I've seen people do like smooth but like
trail races and shout out to Southern California cross
country. There are lots of people who
race on cross court tree courses in that shoe.
I would not do that personally, just because it's narrow enough
that it's just not stable enough.
But yeah, I kind of had that same experience.
Was just like track Rd. smooth Rd.
Nothing, nothing else. Yeah.
Straight line, please. Yeah.
Very interesting. Yeah.
Trying to think of anything else I might comment about with this
shoe regarding like the differences between your and my
experience. I think one thing I was looking
back at the review that you and I wrote and one thing that I
wrote about is this shoe in the previous versions definitely was
stable, neutral. But the way that they've
designed the soul flaring where it's so wide laterally really
makes it work well for much fewer people because there
aren't a ton of people who have lateral stability needs like
myself. Like if you've sprained your
ankle a ton, then you probably do.
But for the most part, people tend to need a little more
control medially. So they've taken this shoe from
version 1 and version 2 where it was closer to stable neutral to
now it's really driving you medially into a very soft foam.
So it is going to be much more specific for who it works for.
But again, as to your point and what you've experienced, maybe
that will change the more it breaks in, but it's just it's a
very different shoe than previous versions.
Now I have a question for you, and I'm real.
I have my theory on this and let me give it some background.
I'm going to ask the question that'll give you a little
background. So this is not the only shoe
I've seen, except that the shoes that I'm going to talk about, I
can't say who they're from, but I've seen some prototype racing
shoes that had some of the most extreme lateral sole flare I've
ever seen in my life. I got a chance to test them.
They did not work very well for me and I would definitely not
take them for a marathon or even a half marathon or even a 10K or
maybe even a 5K to be honest. But I'm curious, I have my, my
theory. Why do you think and there's a
couple companies doing this, why do you think they're putting so
much lateral sole flare there? That is a really good question
because I've also noticed that more and more shoes have more
lateral sole flare, particularly in the forefoot.
It would be really interesting to ask their designers like what
what is their rationale? You know when you read their
marketing literature, they say the the geometry has been
optimized for quicker transitions and theoretically
that is what wide lateral soul flare in the forefoot does.
It makes you pronate much faster and get up on that first MTP for
push off. But that's not really taking
into account the way that most runners run or just the way that
the foot progresses naturally through stance phase and to push
off. So it does kind of seem like
there are trends in the running shoe world where one company
will make a design and claim that it does something and then
all of a sudden you see a few more companies using that same
design. So I wonder if we're seeing that
like one company decided that they're going to make their
flagship racer have high lateral sole flare in the forefoot.
And then other designers are like, huh, maybe we should do
that. I don't know, but I have
definitely noticed that trend and because I've tested more and
more shoes with excessive lateral 4 foot sole flare, which
typically I like, I can definitely say that if it's
combined with a really soft midsole, it just doesn't work
for me. So this is a really great point
that it's not just the one piece, it's also the
interaction. Of the other components like.
Definitely thank the people at Hoka for a great conversation.
A couple episodes you go about that exact fact.
It was like I was asking about like some of like the central
grooves and all this kind of stuff.
They're like, yeah, just FYI, it's not just that.
It's how do the shape of the plate, the compliance of the
midsole foam and the geometry and all these like how what's
the combined thing? We actually know this from the
evidence where people have tried to go like the original Vapor
Flying. They're like, everybody's like,
oh, it must be the plate. And then they went through the
way it must be the foam. And I was definitely someone
who's like, it's the foam, It's the major piece, you know, so
the literature suggests if you cut the plate that, that it
keeps its, its similar efficiency.
So it must be the foam. The more I've learned now and
gotten to test some interesting things, the more I've realized,
no, no, no, it's not one piece. It's the how all those pieces
actually interact together, the height, the jump, all it's a
complex equation. It's not one piece because when
you separate those things out, they don't add up.
If you have one shoe with this, another shoe, it doesn't add up.
It's this unique combination of all of them.
So yeah, my, my theory, I think you're right.
But my theory was that some people thought like, hey, that
if we put more material, material out here, especially if
it's softer, because people generally when they're running
initial contact, be it 4 footer heel is usually on the lateral
aspect, right? So they maybe their thought was,
hey, this gives more, more for them to compress and bounce
forward, not realizing that isn't just sagittal plane
motion. There's a lot of frontal plane
or side to side stuff you need to take into account.
And that a combination with if the overall foam is so soft that
you can't get out of it, that's, that might cause, and that's, I
think both of you are both, both of us are having both of you.
I'm talking to the third person. Both of us are having that same
thing. And it took until I think it
firmed up and lost some of that softness for it to start working
a little bit more. But man, those first 50-60
miles, it was rough. But to be fair, a lot of runners
are going to be, should be using these a heck of a lot more.
But man, getting through that, it was tough, right?
So. Yeah.
And you know when you think about other shoes that have come
out recently with significant lateral 4 foot soul flare, both
of which you hated, the Mizuno Hyper Warp Pro, which is one of
my favorite shoes. I've got so many miles on it.
And then also the Hyper Warp Warp Pure, which while it is
softer, it is nowhere near as soft as the Super blast 3 and I
can run whatever pace I want in it.
I could run 800 pace in that shoe no problem.
I wouldn't race an 800 in it, but it's.
I did run a 5K in it. It flared up my Achilles
immediately afterwards because of that 3 1/2 millimeter drop.
But I did race in it just just to be able to talk about it.
Yeah, yeah. I'm glad you're enjoying that.
I've had high hopes. And I'm like, why did you guys
put a 3 1/2 millimeter drop? That's like classic Mizuno, by
the way. And this is, this is an ongoing
thing. Let's go off topic.
But like many, many years ago, they would have like the hot and
they're coming down off of this, which is really interesting now.
But they had the highest heel drops of any of the trainers
back at like 10-15 years ago. Everything was 12 to 14mm and
then they had the Mizuna Wave Universe, which is their racing
shoe, which no cushioning 4mm drop.
And I'm like, what's happening to your athletes?
Like they also had the Ronin, which was a longer distance
shoe, which had a more traditional drop.
But I'm like people like especially over Japan, they
would go from like the 12 milliliter drop racing shoe to
racing the marathon in the Wave Universe.
And I'm like, what happened to those Achilles?
I know, yeah. That's a that's a pretty crazy
swing. I feel that way about a lot of
Nike shoes, though. You look at them trainers, which
are mostly 8 to 10mm and not with any significant heel bevel,
and then they're racing shoes, They're 8 and Vaporfly's 8.
Alphafly is. Vaporfly is 6.
Now and Alphafly is 8 Yeah, but neither of those shoes run like,
feel like a six or 8mm drive. No, they feel lower, but all of
Nike's trainers feel like 8 to 10mm drop shoes.
I would say they feel higher just because, yeah, like you
said, the lack of the heel bubble makes it feel like extra,
like clunk. And you're like, oh, there's no
way this is like this is 12, which is going to work great for
certain people, not me or you. So, yeah, so.
I did hear some things from a Nike sponsored athlete about the
new Pegasus though, so we'll. See, we have not tested that
yet, so we'll have to see. Are you ready to move on to this
one? I don't think we've talked about
our experience in this yes, in this shoe yet, so I am.
Yeah, I don't think so either happened.
Yeah, so. So why don't you, will you go
first, OK. So the Puma Faster Nitro Elite
3, which is not the shoe is right now my favorite like 5K10K
shoe. I erased a 5K in that last year
and it was awesome. So when I got this shoe, which
is the Puma Deviate Nitro Elite 4I was interested in testing it.
But I also know it's a very different shoe.
So I had purchased on my own the original Deviate Nitro Elite and
it was just so tight in the toe box I sent it back.
I couldn't run it at A at all and I have not tested version 2
or version 3. So this is basically my first
experience in this line. So the fits great, fits true to
size. I didn't have to go up with half
size like I do in the fast arm. Plenty of room in the toe box
even with this stiff overlay over the big toe which I thought
was going to bother me but did not.
Super easy to lock the shoe down even though the tongue is really
thin, just 0 foot discomfort in the shoe, but I really did not
like running in it. And the main reason is you see
how early this 4 foot rocker starts and the foam, the foam
reminds me a lot of the foam in the New Balance SC Elite version
3. It's snappy, it feels light, you
don't feel like you sink down in it very much.
But the main difference between this shoe and the SC Elite 3 is
I just didn't feel like the rocker did anything for me.
Like I felt like it was bouncing me up rather than rolling me
forward. And I think it's just because
how early the rocker starts and this is not a very big heel
bevel. So I think when I land in the
shoe, I'm landing a little bit flatter than I do in other shoes
that let me land with a little more of a toes down position.
So I'm basically landing and then the rocker is immediately
making me go forward. But the way that just how my
body loads, the shoe made me feel like it was bouncing up.
And anytime I did anything besides easy running in it, I
would start getting tension in my hip flexors because I just
felt like it was bouncing me up and I was compensating by
increasing how much hip extension I was going into and
it. It also didn't really feel like
it made me that much faster, like I would have rather run in
like a daily trainer for these workouts than because it you
know, if you're going to wear a super shoe, you want it to make
your running easier. And despite the shoe being very
light, it is I've got. I've got specs by the way.
If you want. Yeah.
So specs are it's 6 oz or 170 grams for men's size, 95.2 oz or
147 grams for women's size 8. So very light.
Yeah, it dropped a lot of weight.
It's not the lightest, but it's definitely in that category of
lighter super where you got a lot of stuff in the like 6 1/2
seven ounce range right now. But everything all the really
like a lot of stuff dropped into that six or slightly low range.
So similar Vaporfly fast R3 also the same thing.
It's actually the same weight as this, but yeah, 3830 in the in
the heel and forefoot for an 8mm drop.
Yeah. And in my review, I just
compared all of the differences between the shoe, which I don't
like, and the faster 3, which I love.
And I mean, the geometry can't be different.
I didn't bring the faster three up, but you know, the faster
three had a completely decoupled heel from the forefoot, really
large heel bevel. That shoe was 100% designed for
midfoot or 4 foot strikers. Whereas I really feel like with
this tiny little heel bevel, an early 4 foot rocker, this shoe
is really better for people who land further back.
I will confirm that it feels great, and I think it's for that
reason. Can I jump in?
Yeah. Absolutely, yeah.
So I think we had the exact opposite experience and this is
great because we're going to dive into this very similar
experience with the upper, by the way, where it feels like a
racing shoe, but it's not like compressing.
It's just like it's not wide at all.
It's definitely slightly snug, but not so much that I'm like,
oh, my toes are getting cramped. Upper is very light, which is
great. Drops a lot of weight without
being like there's no security problems mostly flexible here
that the heel counter is very thin and I don't know if this
bothered me at all, but it's been mostly good.
But yeah, the only real stiffness is this small thin
heel counselor back here, which kind of pushed my Achilles a
little bit. Wasn't it wasn't terrible.
So if it was fine, true to size, it would disappear immediately.
I had a somewhat similar experience to you when I was
warming or doing anything slow in this shoe.
Often times I'll, I don't usually switch out shoes right
now, just the way my life works. If I'm going for a run, if I'm
going to the track or I'm going on the treadmill for workouts, I
don't have time to switch shoes. So the same shoes that I'm going
to do the workout in, I'm going to be warming up and cool down.
And when I would warm up in this shoe, I'd be like, I don't like
this shoe. Like it doesn't feel like a
super shoe. I feel like it feels awkward
because oftentimes when I kill a little stiff, so I'm up on my
forefoot and like, what is this? But every run, every workout
that I've done in this shoe, once I got up to speed, I'm
like, oh, this is really good. Like I like this.
Like if I ever have time to race because life is getting is
really crazy right now. I absolutely.
I almost did, but then I watched my wife get super sick because
she was like on the verge of getting sick race got really
sick. And so I kind of had the same
experience. I'm like, I'm actually going to
skip this 10K. That's very smart.
It's just. In it's just in Newburgh, I
would rather sleep in a little bit and just get a run in.
So I'm glad I have. I'm finally developing the
maturity finally. How long it lasts, I don't know.
But when I do race, it's probably going to be in this
because that again and getting up on my toes.
I hate this. It just, I think the four foot
rocker is long enough that it just doesn't feel like I can
really snap off this thing. But as more of a heel striker,
when I hit the heel it rolls me forward so quick.
It's really good. I do feel like it does extend
the straight out just because of the larger 4 foot rocker.
Gets me into a little bit like helps me transition and deals
with some stiff calves to get a little more hip extension.
But yeah, landing at the rear foot way better.
Trying to Sprint in this shoe. Not good.
OK, try like 1500 for me. I'm probably still a heel
strike. I guess I'm probably still a
heel striker there. But like 1500 below that kind of
pace. Absolutely not 5K up 10K.
It's not a stable neutral shoe. I was really hopeful because
everybody was like, oh, version three stable neutral.
I'm like, no, it wasn't. And the outsole came off super
fast and people said the same, oh, stable, it's not OK Narrow
midfoot like longer efforts. I definitely get a little
fatigued in this shoe, but it's not unstable, which is nice.
So I think people that have more stable mechanics that are heel
strikers going a decent pace, not the fastest, like even in
the mid 60s, you're going to be fine.
It's much more comfortable. But if you're trying, if you're
someone that lands farther forward, if you're someone that
really wants to be running super like really, really like Sprint
like low middle distance, it's probably not.
But for the longer distance stuff, it does quite well for
me, just rolling me along and I put down some pretty quick
paces, like 520 ish pace pushing the stroller.
So it's pretty for me, it's good.
But I think this shoe is like the fast R where I think it's
very polarized. That's where I can appreciate
the fast R3. I can't get it to work.
It's just so unstable medially, it's so aggressive that it just
doesn't work as we're having the opposite experience.
And I think that's something worth exploring where, you know,
shoes are both can you learn them?
But there's a certain limitation to that of going, yeah,
depending on your mechanics, can you actually load this shoe the
way that's going to get the most out of it?
It's like, what do you think about our differences?
It makes sense to me. Right, Of course it makes sense.
And I actually think it's great that Puma has differentiated
their racing line like this, because when you try to make all
of your racing shoes work for everybody, you often make your
racing shoes work for very few people.
I can't say what it is and I don't have it yet, but there is
a third one coming. Oh, really?
OK, David, talking about the shoes you can't talk about.
I don't have it though. I've just seen a photo of it and
we're like, oh. Oh, the one that we're hoping to
get. We're hoping, yeah, that that
one would be like, hey, why is that?
I guess it's technically public, right?
I saw it. That's how.
Yeah, you found it online. Yeah, for those who don't know,
who are maybe new, don't realize that I like scope and try to
hunt things out. And so I'll find things and I'm
gonna go, Nathan, can we test this shoe?
And he's like, is it? Is anybody else reviewing it?
And like, does anybody else have it?
And like, no, but I found it publicly.
So that means it should be a good to go.
Can you ask for it, please? Because we've learned that when
I interact with shoe companies, I usually mess stuff up.
So we usually let Nathan do the interactions.
So this is a what probably weekly occurrence.
Definitely. I'd say more than weekly, Yeah.
Yep. And then heaven forbid he's
like, Nah, like he tries and doesn't get back to me.
Then the eBay hunt begins, which I just had probably the biggest
defeat I've ever had where I got beaten by like probably 2-3
hundred dollars and I I let that one go for sure I.
Was like, yeah. Nope, I'm, I'm not, I'm not
doing this. No, thank you.
But well, anyway, back to yeah. Suffice to say, there is another
Puma Racing shoe that Matt and I are both very excited to test
hopefully and hopefully we can tell you about it soon, yes.
So, yes, but you, you were saying that you like the
diversification of the line because you feel like there is
something for everyone, which is kind of the point, right.
But I don't know if any companies have really they've
talked about it. I don't know how they, well,
they've actually hit that on the.
Head well I think when you're trying to sell something you
don't want to make your marketing such that you're
making people less interested in your shoe by saying hey, the
faster 3 is just for midfoot and four foot strikers.
And the Deviate Nitro Elite 4 is just for rear foot strikers.
Because I'm sure there are some rear foot strikers who are fine
in the faster 3. And I'm sure there are going to
be some midfoot strikers who are fine in the DV8 Nitro Elite 4.
But in general, because of the shoes design, you are going to
have more rear foot strikers better off in the DV8 and more 4
foot and midfoot strikers better in the faster.
But it would be helpful if shoe companies gave consumers more
information about how they designed a shoe and what they
had in mind. Because there's so many shoes
out there. And you know, what we do at
Doctors of Running is try to help people like get through the
noise and figure out well, out of all these shoes, what might
be the best one or two shoes for me or 3 or 4.
But it would be great if shoe company said like, look, when we
designed this shoe, we were designing it for people who have
these characteristics in mind. And then that just helps
everyday runners who don't have time to watch YouTube or read
shoe reviews pick out their shoes a little better.
And it also helps running store employees help their customers
find the right shoe a little easier.
So I, I again, I understand why they're not doing that, but I
think for many segments of the running shoe or the running
population, it would be very helpful if they gave a little
more technical information about their shoes.
Now, to be fair, can we talk about ASICS and the meta speed
series? Do you feel like the Sky versus
Edge? Do you feel like that's it
because they talked the original thing was talking about like
cadence versus stride runners and that was the initial
conversation and then they were like, no, no, no.
It's how you increase speed that's the major differentiating
factor. So ASIC has done that.
Do you feel like that's been helpful or not?
Well, no, because if you don't are online at all, you see all
the all of the confusion about well, am IA cadence or a stride
runner. How do I know which Asic's
racing shoe is going to work for me?
And the reality is, yeah, your watch will tell you your cadence
and it estimates your stride length, but it's definitely not
perfectly accurate. And people will vary in how they
increase their speed depending on a number of factors.
So you really can't say like, oh, I'm a cadence runner.
Oh, I'm a stride runner, because everyone is a little bit of
both. And it will depend on how
fatigued you are on the nature of the course, Just so many
factors. And, you know, we've heard
anecdotally lots of people who say, oh, yeah, I know that I'm
more of a cadence runner, but I like the other.
Yeah, yeah. And so companies try to not dumb
down, but they try to take their R&D and have marketing, help
their customers figure out what might work for them.
And I think a lot gets lost in translation.
Yeah, I think it'd be good to. I, I like your idea of going,
hey, let's build a story. This is kind of who we were
thinking about when we tried to design this right here was kind
of what happened and all that kind of stuff.
It'd be really cool to go what went into actually developing
this. Obviously it's also hard because
that might also give little insights into exactly how
they're doing that, which is company privacy, things like
that. Proprietary stuff might be might
be challenging with that, but it'd be, it would be good to go.
Who are we? Who do we have in mind for this?
Like I really like with with Brooks when I was talking,
especially Evan Day mentioned this when we're talking about
the new, this is a totally pivotal shoe, different shoe,
but was talking about the Brooks beast, the new one, because
we're the only people that maybe Bach and I were the only people
on the the shoe reviewer well and that care about that shoe.
But the the the one of the few motion control shoes left Evan
Evan was really excited because like, actually we were looking
at all these different factors and realized that it actually
this shoe for whatever reason, actually decreased bodily pain
in our participants like walk running.
And we're like, we don't know why, but that's kind of cool.
And it's like that could be part of the story going, yeah, we're
not be honest though. Don't be like, oh, it's going to
decrease your fibromyalgia pain. No, it should be like, you know,
we have no idea why this is happening.
It's you can be part of the the little test process of us trying
to figure this out. But in a lot of our wear testers
had decreased over bodily pain. We are really designing this for
those that want to be on their feet all day or maybe have some
level of discomfort. And this might be a great shoe
for that. I haven't tested it Block just
got it. So I'm hoping that comes in.
Maybe it'll be a beast that I can actually wear.
But yeah, I like the idea of a of like, why did we do this?
And sometimes I feel like that definitely gets lost in.
You said that perfectly. I think it gets lost in
translation. But you and I are also nerds
that want to know why it was made rather than some people
would just put on the shoe. Or not.
And you know, I also think that sometimes shoe design is less
about bio mechanics and more about appearance.
I think that shoes with a posterior sole flare are a great
example. There's no biomechanical reason
to make a shoe with excessive posterior sole flare as you I
can't. Wait for the.
I can't wait for the YouTube comments on that.
But so many shoes haven't, and I mean it just completely ruins
the running experience most of the time for me because.
By the way, just sorry go for sorry.
Well, posterior sole flare results in earlier initial
contact, and if you're a heel striker that means you're going
to land in more dorsiflexion which puts more stress on your
interior tibialis, so you're more likely to have anterior
shin pain as a result of it. But posterior soul flare looks
cool, so sometimes I wonder if that's like the the extent of
the design. Thoughts.
I hope not, but if you were making, if you were making a
decision based on true biomechanical knowledge, I just
don't see why you would design A shoe with that feature.
Unfortunately, my arguments with developers, they've been like,
well, when you like have the soul flare extends ground
contact time. So if you're only looking at
ground reaction forces, it doesn't look like.
So for those who don't know, when you land on the ground,
there's something called ground reaction forces.
And when you're picking up forces like force plates and
trying to measure this stuff, that's the primary variable that
you look at that you can extrapolate to other stuff.
So if you look at this, most heel strikers when they land,
though, it's going to be an initial impact peak and it looks
at this very sharp thing and then there's a second one as the
rest of your body comes down. And a long time people were like
some we people thought, oh, that's why there's like all
these running injuries. And it turns out that's actually
not true. And actually like force level
isn't actually as relevant to running injuries.
There's actually some like bivariate like these variations
of calculations, like these sub variables that they may think
now, but body ground reaction forces aren't very predictive of
running injuries. And so they thought that hey, if
you extend the soul flare way back and you actually lengthen
the ground contact time, oh look, that peak is smoother.
But that's because you're only looking at like forces, but
you're not actually thinking about how they're being applied
to the body. And this goes back to you can't
think about 1 variable. It's how do all these pieces
interact together? Which Speaking of which, I think
we have time briefly for one more.
Do you think? Yeah, OK, I think we can do this
because I think we're going to agree, or at least I think maybe
I'm wrong. But the last one is the on cloud
Monster 3 Hyper, which our team I think has been universally
loving after dumping on on which you're getting really frustrated
with on shoes a lot of stuff. This has been excellent.
So why don't you go again, as always, Andrea, and say, hey,
what did you really like about this shoe?
And then I'll follow you because man, it's been a really.
And the LS is is awesome too, although it's just really
expensive. So I've got to say that most on
shoes fit me really well. They have this.
Sorry, Peanut, almost fell off the bed there.
Edit that out, please. Yeah, on shoes fit me really
well. They've got a nice wide toe box.
It's usually not super tapered in the toe, so I can be pretty
confident that I'm going to like the fit of on shoes.
I've loved the cloud Boom E3 and the Cloud boom cloud Boom strike
as racing shoes recently. I really liked the cloud Boom
Vault as like an easy run super shoe.
The original Cloud Monster Hyper was one of my I wouldn't say
favorite, but one of them just high stack super trainer for
easy running. But the phone was bouncy enough
that like I didn't just have to like slog in it.
I could do like kind of normal easy pace too.
So this was a really exciting update because the one thing
about the hyper it was pretty bulky.
It was on the heavier side. This you can do a lot like I've
used it for strides and really did not feel like it was holding
me back at all. I never would have done that in
the original Cloud Monster Hyper.
It's really well designed for me.
I think this is a 7mm drop shoe, is that right?
It's I think there's various sources.
Yeah, it was 6 stack height is 45 millimeters in the heel, 39
in the four foot. But I've also seen some
different. Sources.
So that's right, yeah, we had to update our review.
It's lower it's not yeah, let's just say 6 for the drop. 5 or 6.
Yep. So works really nicely for
midfoot striking. I've used it for easy runs, long
runs, use it for any workouts just because it is not the
lightest shoe. But this shoe just eats up miles
and it's so comfortable. It's firm, which I like, but
it's still bouncy and which I also like, which makes it really
able to pick up the pace when you need to.
So, you know, most runners who are training for something have
easy runs where you're throwing in strides or like 24 or
pickups, and you can't do that in a lot of these like really
bulky super trainers. But this is a shoe that you can
do that. It really can pick up the pace,
super durable. I probably have like 35 miles on
mine. You can see it's dirty but
really not worn anywhere. So I've loved it.
I've been continuing to get miles in it, so we'll see how
long it lasts. I've had the same experience
where up love the upper it's on the wider side and it actually
fits true to size now where I felt like the last version was
like should I have gone 1/2 size down?
Does it fit long Is it? I also hated the last word and
David loved it. I I disliked I just didn't feel
like he was bouncy and was like it's so fast.
I'm like I feel like I can barely do easy runs in this
shooting. Just something it was stable,
just something didn't transition well with it.
And this has been the exact opposite where upper super
comfortable great amount of room in the 4 foot people with a
little bit wider feet. I think this is going to do
really, really well because the upper also is has some stretch
and you can adjust the laces really well.
The sole like you said, was great.
It's the best balance of bounce and without being mushy with
just like that touch of firmness that like still great for long
runs great for easy runs. I have done several progression
runs in this shoe on the treadmill and it's done
fantastic down to animals, like getting down to like 53520 pace.
And I'm like, that's awesome, I can do this, this is great.
And then durability. I think I have 60-70 miles in
this thing. And again, for those who are
watching on YouTube, you hopefully know and you can see
the outs are still intact. Most shoes don't last so long
for me. So yeah, it's holding up really
well. You're definitely gonna get your
miles. Out of the shoe, but like
another shoe that would make me go, Hey, you want to race a
marathon and some of the Super aggressive light racing shoes
aren't working. I think this is a good one that
you can be your do it all shoe. That could be your your long
run, your easy run, your marathon ratio.
I think that's another one just because it's got the snappiness
to be able to have that and really stable neutral.
Like it's worked super well for me where the sidewalls come up
really high without getting in the in the way.
And then the combination of the the midsole foam, the was it
Helion on HF encased into the Eva bottom layer, I think just
creates this nice kind of cradle around that's been good without
being a full on stability shoe, but still being stable enough
that I do long runs and I'm it's totally fun.
So it's yeah. And I think again, same thing,
like some on shoes haven't been the greatest at this, but
they've done better where this is a really nice heel bubble
that kind of does all the things.
Yeah, there's a it flares back a little bit, but it's comes up
enough that like your landing point is still underneath where
your heel is, which is great. Just nice transition.
It's great. It's fine and really
comfortable. Yeah, this upper is great.
But on like you said, on uppers are usually really, really good.
I have not. I have not had many that were a
problem. Like great example of this.
Gosh, I can see it right now. The on cloud boom Max we're like
upper was so comfortable and I hated the sole so much.
I was like I just let me stand in the shoe as long as I don't
have to move in it. It's so comfortable.
I loved. That shoe for.
Recovery, I know. I have one comment about why you
probably didn't like the original Cloud Boom Hyper.
I don't know if you have your pair back there, but then.
Oh, I don't think I do anymore. No, not anymore.
I'll show on here. So similar design.
You know, you have the Helion HF and then you had the Eva, Eva
pods. But on the original the pods
were not ace. They were not symmetrically
placed medially and laterally they came up higher on the
lateral side. So they actually were somewhat
laterally biased in the midfoot and forefoot because it was
stiffer on the lateral side. So I remember that was I think I
wrote like the DPT about it or something, but that was one of
the reasons I thought I liked that shoe so much.
And you did not because of how the they use the stiffness of
that foam to control motion a little bit I.
Just felt like I couldn't get what I was hoping to out of that
shoe. I was like, but yeah.
It was also a little bulky, yeah.
It was, yeah. So, OK, so let's see, we had
mostly similar opinions, although for different reasons,
similar reasons, actually similar experience with the ASIC
super blast three. We had polar opposite
experiences with the Puma Deviate natural 84 just based on
our mechanics. You know, we actually had very
similar experiences with the on Cloud Monster Hyper 33 Hyper. 3
Hyper. 3 Hyper, 3 hyper, gosh, the names, gosh.
So yeah, not as many disagreements this time as
around. So maybe we'll have to come back
and have maybe some of the soccer issues coming up.
We'll have some more polarizing experiences, which I'm hoping
not. I really hope that I like the
Hyperion Elite three. I can just see myself being that
like the the black sheep that like just like that also hates
it and everybody else loves it on the the podcast.
But it's OK. Yeah, it's fine.
Yeah. And you know, when you look at
the design of the three shoes we design we discussed today, this
probably is the most stable neutral shoe of the three.
So it kind of makes sense that out of the three you and I would
agree on it because it doesn't have any like specific stability
features in any One Direction. Yeah, so our big question for
all of you is so those posting on YouTube or of any ammo
comments, any questions or thoughts, let us know what you
think. Is there one person that you
kind of gravitate to or you having a completely different
experience than the two of us? Please let us know because the
goal is to go, Hey, can you hypothesize about possibly why
We talked about some of the reasons right where we land, how
we load the shoe, personal preferences.
These are all things that you need to think about.
And yes, companies are going to market stuff, but you are not
the same even as your running buddy, as your sibling, as like
everybody else, everybody has very unique ways of their move.
It's so unique. In fact, it's actually more
unique than your fingerprints. So this is what we're trying to
share with you is go, hey, what are things?
What are different experiences? What might yours be?
And hopefully you learn something from this and can
figure out some stuff for you. So as always, you can find us on
a variety of different places. These podcast episodes are out
on a variety of different places where you listen to podcasts and
then you get to put on YouTube if you want to see them
visually. We also have all kinds of other
stuff coming out on those platforms and many social
platforms. The primary place you're going
to find most of our content is our website at
doctorsrunning.com. We put up the majority of our
reviews. Lots of you ask, hey, you didn't
do this video review, whatever. Guarantee we did a written
review. We're a little old school.
We still like the written stuff, right?
We still put out some videos, but the written areas where
you're going to find most of the stuff and most stuff that we're
thinking about and the stuff that we're putting on our feet.
Thank you for listening again, hope this was helpful.
Leave a comment below or wherever you can.
This is helpful and if you have some additional thoughts but
enjoy this, I hope it helped you with wherever you were listening
to it and we will talk to you soon.