1 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,520 Hello everyone, and welcome to the Doctors of Running podcast, 2 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:14,560 where we, a group of doctors of physical therapy, discuss the 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:16,920 art and the science of the stuff that we're putting on our feet. 4 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:21,000 I'm Andrea Myers, and we have a very special guest here with us 5 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,480 today. We have Shunsuke AOI, who's the 6 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,040 manager of performance running planning at Mizuno, and he's 7 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:32,159 here to talk to us all about their 2026 line and some really 8 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,040 exciting new releases they've gotten. 9 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,920 So welcome, Shunsuke. Thank you so much for joining 10 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:38,960 me. How are you today? 11 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,720 Yeah. Thank you for having me on this. 12 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,440 Yeah, the special podcast. I'm really excited and really 13 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:50,240 happy to introduce our new product story, Yeah, to the 14 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,200 audience of this focus. I'm really. 15 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:56,320 Yeah, happy now? You've got, you know, Mizuno has 16 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,680 really impressed me the past few years with the Rebellion Pro 17 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:04,280 line, and now there's an even newer line of racing shoes. 18 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:08,000 So let's dive right into that. So can you tell us about the new 19 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,760 racing line that you've released for 2026? 20 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,920 There are several models and just tell us a little bit about 21 00:01:13,960 --> 00:01:16,080 each. So I know. 22 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:20,560 So Andrea, you are using Rebellion Flash so much then we 23 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:24,080 are very happy to see that. But yeah, now it's the time to 24 00:01:24,320 --> 00:01:30,160 take next step as a Mizuno. So new racing line is coming in 25 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:31,640 2026. Yeah. 26 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:37,880 And now I can say this is a new product range, we call it Hyper 27 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:39,000 Warp. Yeah. 28 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:46,400 And Hyper Warp is actually new racing day rhyme for Mizuno from 29 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:50,120 2026. This is a kinds of replacement 30 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:58,760 of the Rebellion trees, Yeah. Then as we introduce this new 31 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,720 product line on Instagram from beginning of October, we have 32 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,520 three models in the Hyper web line. 33 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,240 Yeah, very lightweight to Pure and Elliot. 34 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,400 Then another one. This is the pro, Yeah. 35 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:19,520 Then probably before I will introduce each of the model. 36 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:24,400 So I can say that, yeah, basic concept of the whole hyper web 37 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,360 range that would be yeah, nice step to introduce our product. 38 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:30,080 Is it? OK. 39 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,960 Yeah. So we've been lucky that the 40 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,680 whole DRR team has received the Pro, the Elite and the Pure for 41 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,000 testing. So I've gotten, I've got at 42 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,400 least 20 miles on each pair. So can you tell us? 43 00:02:42,920 --> 00:02:44,360 I've definitely noticed. Yeah. 44 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:46,440 Of course, there are big differences between the three. 45 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:51,320 So in Mizuno's eyes, what are the different intended uses for 46 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:52,400 each shoe? Yeah, yeah. 47 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:58,280 So basically before go to the DTO, the edge product. 48 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,600 So I want to start from the whole concept of the Hyper orb. 49 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:08,360 So it is very simple, it is lightweight and the response and 50 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,800 stable. Yeah, very basic feature we have 51 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:18,280 on these shoes for all models. So in order to make better 52 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:23,040 relation day shoes, so we had so many interviews to the 53 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:28,280 professional athlete and amateur athlete and yeah, everyday 54 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:32,400 runners as well. Then what we got from especially 55 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,040 from the professional runner is it was very simple. 56 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,960 Yeah, they need right weight, they need response, but they 57 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,240 need stable. Yeah, this is very important. 58 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:46,200 So even at the high speed, they want to make that running motion 59 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,800 very stable, especially for the long laced last part, they need 60 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,000 that sensation. So I don't want to say this is a 61 00:03:54,000 --> 00:04:00,240 very supportive shoes like a wave inspire, but stable, not 62 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,640 unstable is a very important element for race issue right 63 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:04,360 now. Yeah. 64 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:11,520 And probably most of the people say sync new hyper offline is 65 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,480 very different from yeah, the Belgian, right. 66 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:20,839 But yeah, I can say the product philosophy and the product 67 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:27,400 feature is we are continuing to use and Hyperoplane, yeah, if we 68 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:33,040 sent the gate is yeah, made with new construction, new structure 69 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,000 inside of this shoe. Yeah, I will explain later. 70 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,280 But yeah, lightweight and response and the stable has a 71 00:04:40,280 --> 00:04:42,360 very big concept of this Hyperoplane, you know? 72 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:45,200 I would absolutely agree with that. 73 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,040 Yeah, big difference in stability between all three of 74 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,800 the hyperwarp shoes and any of the Rebellion pros. 75 00:04:52,840 --> 00:04:56,240 Yeah, yeah, Rebellion was also, yeah, very nice shoes. 76 00:04:56,280 --> 00:05:00,800 It has good cushion and response and yeah, very strong power to 77 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:02,720 go forward. But. 78 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:08,640 Yeah, what I got from the professional athlete is yeah, so 79 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:13,320 if the full marathon is just go straight, yeah, this shoe is a 80 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,960 very nice shoe. But and the racing so, so many 81 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:21,560 Cubs, so many, yeah, so different the ground feeling. 82 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,560 So in order to fit to every single environment, so we need 83 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,280 to make it more a little bit more stable, yeah. 84 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:34,280 But yeah, just going to stable fire is a not fun, yeah. 85 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:38,760 So keep it more cushion and keep it more responsive then 86 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:43,760 lightweight is a very big trend of the latest running shoe 87 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:48,120 market right now then yeah, make it lightweight, make it more 88 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:53,400 cushion the response then stable as a real development for this 89 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:57,560 issue. I would agree, I've definitely 90 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,120 noticed that. I'm pretty sure all three of the 91 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,960 hyperwarp shoes are lighter than the Rebellion Pro 2 and three. 92 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,120 Right. And the Pure in particular is. 93 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,040 Yes, yeah. Crazy light. 94 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:14,240 I can start from pure. Yeah, this is glaci lightweight. 95 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:19,520 Yeah, Often for hyperwarpine, it has just 4.9 oz. 96 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,480 Yeah. Then last Rebellion Pro 3 was 97 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:30,640 the 7.6 onsets, so pretty much 2.6 yeah Oz lighter than the 98 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,640 previous module, yeah. That is a huge difference. 99 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:37,160 So of course there's a big difference in stack height 100 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,400 between the Rebellion Pro 3 and any of the Hyper Warp models, 101 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,520 but I'm not sure that difference accounts for all of the weight 102 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,360 savings. So could you talk a little more 103 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:51,520 about just the design process from the Pro 3 to Hyper Warp and 104 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,600 how you, your team went about developing the the Hyper Warp 105 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,480 line? So the first priority for this 106 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,840 development was a makes ratio, lighter and lighter. 107 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,400 Yeah. Then recently they are making 108 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,800 material. It's a very important to create 109 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,480 lightweight issues. And at this time we are using 110 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:19,040 Mizuna Energy XP. The nickname of the material is 111 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,920 exactly the same as which we are using for Rebellion Pro. 112 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:27,040 But this is new material. I can say this is a Mizuna 113 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:32,400 Energy XP. Yeah, right away version then 114 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:38,560 for Rebellion force three we use TPE as a base material. 115 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:45,000 Sound project elastomer, yeah, but for this model, so PEBBA is 116 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:50,680 a base material, yeah then choosing yeah which base 117 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,720 material is a very important part of the making material. 118 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:59,160 But yeah, so today we have TP, EE, ATPUTPU and the PEBBA. 119 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,440 So many choices we have, but in order to make lighter weight 120 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,480 version of the resting shoe, this time we selected paper as a 121 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,080 base material. Yeah, base material is not 122 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,160 everything. Yeah, after choosing base 123 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,720 material, another step is also very important. 124 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:21,120 What we include as in the base material and how many nitrogen 125 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:25,520 we will infuse yeah, So every single step is very important to 126 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,920 create, Yeah, very nice blend of lightweight and many nice 127 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:36,320 cushion response, yeah. Then when we go to lightweight 128 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:43,600 material, generally lightweight means less rigidity, yeah, means 129 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:50,120 less response. But this time so magic recipe of 130 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:55,200 our development team, it's a incredibly nice lightweight, but 131 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,720 the cushion and response be we make it in the new reason as the 132 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:07,240 XP Yeah, then it's 4.9 oz. But the still have very lively 133 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,600 pop feeling and bounce back feeling to go forward. 134 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:15,600 Yeah, this is yeah, coming from Mizunanzi XP new right of weight 135 00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:17,000 paper based version. Yeah. 136 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:23,440 So this version of Mizuno XP is PIPA and the pure is only PIPA, 137 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:24,480 is that right? Yeah, yeah. 138 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:29,120 Pure is only PIPA, Yeah. Then another key feature of this 139 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,480 shoe is a stock height. Yeah, actually the number of 140 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:38,520 stock guy for the forefoot it's 31 five and the forefoot, yeah, 141 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,600 71 five. And the fore foot disease, Yeah, 142 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:48,440 it sounds not so sexiest, but yeah, the less sickness than 143 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:54,960 than the other models. But this is coming from how we 144 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,680 can control the balance feeling and the stable feeling. 145 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,520 Yeah, it is very lightweight. If we use this material with a 146 00:10:02,680 --> 00:10:10,000 very thick missile, it's very unstable, then course this has 147 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:14,000 really nice response and the cushion even this is, yeah, a 148 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,920 bit thinner than pass model, it creates enough cushion in the 149 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:23,240 balance. So this time 31.5 is a very best 150 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:28,520 stack height for making stable bed, lightweight and nice 151 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,120 response. Yeah, and I've got to say in my 152 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:32,840 testing, I absolutely agree with that. 153 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:37,920 I've used the Pure for 5K and 10K pace intervals, but I also 154 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,960 used it for a 10 mile marathon pace run and the shoe just felt 155 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,160 incredible for that run. I'm not, I would like, I'm not 156 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,760 training for a marathon, so I'm not really doing really long 157 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,840 runs, but I would be interested to see how the Pure holds up 158 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:57,680 over longer mileage runs. But I can absolutely feel, I 159 00:10:57,680 --> 00:10:59,560 like the lower stack height of the pure. 160 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:05,120 It feels interestingly to me, it feels very stiff longitudinally, 161 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,320 but it feels like it has a little more flex torsionally. 162 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,000 Is that true? Yeah. 163 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:14,440 And for me, I like that because it feels like there's not a lot 164 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:18,000 of resistance to loading my first MTP joint at push off. 165 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,720 And that's a very different feeling than what I've gotten in 166 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:26,120 the Elite, which does feel very stiff in every direction. 167 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,720 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. 168 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:32,760 So next is a Elite. Yeah, actually, as you said, 169 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:37,520 Elite and the Pure looks very similar, but inside of the shoe 170 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:43,680 is yeah, they're very different. Yeah, I said that Pure is using 171 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:47,640 paper version energy XP and All Elite. 172 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,640 We are using same material on the top missile, but the bottom 173 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:56,760 missile is made by TPEE. Yeah, this is the same one we 174 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:01,400 are using for Rebellion Flow. Yeah, the combination of the two 175 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,200 different missile could aids, Yeah, cushion, lightweight but 176 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,040 bit more responsive feeling compared to Pure. 177 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,640 Yeah, but still this is lightweight. 178 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,560 Yeah. So this is 5.9 oz. 179 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:18,760 Yeah, very lightweight, lightweight. 180 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:24,800 And Rebellion Pro then codes this is this has a bit more 181 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,760 response than pure. Yeah. 182 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:33,840 And this is OK for 1/2 marathon 5K10K, of course, But relatively 183 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,160 I would actually prefer to use this shoe for full marathon. 184 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:43,360 Yeah, the probably you have, you have a similar feeling and pro 185 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,320 and elite, pure and elite. Yes. 186 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:51,560 Mm hmm, yeah, the elite for me. Are you saying the pure is more 187 00:12:51,560 --> 00:12:54,440 designed for marathoning and the elite is designed more for 188 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,280 shorter races or vice versa? Yeah, vice, yeah, so different 189 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:04,160 opposite, yeah, so pure is yeah more to yeah, half Mersen, 10K5K 190 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:08,360 and the elite is more to full Mersen, but and of course it 191 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,200 depends on individual, the force. 192 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,840 Absolutely they. Really like to use this shoe for 193 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,120 full marathon. Of course, this is OK and this 194 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,760 is, yeah, also OK for shorter distance. 195 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,000 But negatively, this is a lighter weight problem and a 196 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,640 little bit more the shorter distance and this is before the 197 00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:25,800 lower distance as well. Yeah. 198 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,640 Yeah, and that's that's what I thought Mizuno intended, but I 199 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,320 just wanted to make sure. Yes, the elite it because the 200 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:37,920 elite feels stiffer and definitely more stable. 201 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:42,200 It definitely doesn't feel as fast when I try to do like 5K or 202 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,000 10K pace in it. But if I'm doing like 1/2 203 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,800 marathon pace, tempo or marathon pace, it just really locks into 204 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,240 that. So for me though, I think the 205 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,600 pure potentially could be a marathon shoe, but it's hard for 206 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,400 me to say since I'm not really running long distances. 207 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,520 With your professional sponsored athletes, are any of them 208 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,000 choosing the Pure or most of them choosing the? 209 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:13,520 Yeah, for full Mason, not all the athletes, but probably 70% 210 00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:17,240 of the athletes prefer to use a need for longer distance like a 211 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:22,280 full version then? Yeah, for shorter distance, 212 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,640 yeah, the most of the athletes prefer to have pure because it's 213 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,200 very lightweight. Yeah, yes, yeah. 214 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,240 It's just unbelievable how light it feels on foot. 215 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:36,120 But it's what I I've been particularly impressed about 216 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:40,160 what the pure is, how stable it feels taking tight turns, which 217 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,240 as you mentioned was definitely not the case with any of the 218 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:48,840 Rebellion pro shoes. Yeah, yeah, particularly the 219 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:50,520 three just because it was so tall. 220 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,760 So it's I think one of the things and you haven't really 221 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,240 shown the base of any of the shoes, but all of these shoes 222 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,680 have a significantly wider base than any of the rebellions. 223 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,400 Actually, yes. To be honest, this is another 224 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,200 point. Yeah, except for the material 225 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,720 development. We took a long time to create. 226 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:16,040 Where is the best? Which width as the best for 227 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,080 which every part? Yeah, on the bottom side. 228 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:25,560 So if we increase the risk, yeah, it's more it will become 229 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,720 more stable, but gain weight, Yeah, right. 230 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:35,040 Then how to reduce the area while kit and stability is yeah, 231 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,920 very, yeah, the technical part of the development. 232 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:44,040 But I can say now this is a very yeah, the best the power for 233 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:48,000 creating prosecution response and lightweight and stability. 234 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:55,680 Yeah, yeah, forefoot this very wider and even not so thin, 235 00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:00,680 Yeah, this is enough wideness and the hue as well, this 236 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:04,800 creates nice running sensation on the mid foot and the probably 237 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:09,360 some run they use layer foot especially for the later part of 238 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,760 the race. Yeah, in case of that, Yeah, 239 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,880 even in that case that we can create enough stability from 240 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:19,360 view side, Yeah, every single place of the shoe baton creates 241 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:21,760 nice the stable burning sensation. 242 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,480 Now, is there any difference between the pure and the elite 243 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,720 in terms of where the plate is placed in relation to the foot? 244 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,640 Yeah, actually the plate is, Yeah, very important. 245 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,280 Another part of this shoe. Yeah. 246 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:40,760 This time the Pure and Elite both have same shape and the 247 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,040 same material plate inside. Yeah. 248 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:49,640 And this is a full length, 3D shaped full carbon plate. 249 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,520 Yeah. This is a very big improvement 250 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,200 from Liberia Pro as well. Yeah. 251 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:02,960 And latest from here to to all the way goes through then this 252 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,160 part is. Yeah, the 3D shaped area. 253 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:13,880 Yeah, this is going to 2D and this is going to 3D, Yeah, it is 254 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:20,680 coming in the midfood area and this is very strong stiffness in 255 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:25,359 the midfood area. Yeah, more than any of the 256 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:29,960 product. Then material itself is a full 257 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:34,680 carbon. Yeah, until Rebellion we use 258 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,880 nylon based carbon infuser plate, but at this time we are 259 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,760 taking full carbon plate. Yeah, but this time we can't 260 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,640 using. Yeah, the 3D shape. 261 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:51,160 Yeah, this is coming from our wrong history of using plate 262 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,800 technology to the running shoes. Yeah, we have more than 25 years 263 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,120 of history to use. Yeah, the plate technology to 264 00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:00,680 the running shoes, and then we have so many. 265 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,520 Yeah, the knowledge and experience for using plate, 266 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:12,560 Yeah, Then we know 3D shape benefits so much to the shoes. 267 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:18,400 This is the reason why we are not using pure plate with a 2D 268 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,560 shape for Rebellion Pro. Yeah, so Nitro base carbon 269 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,320 infuser plate with a 3D shape for Rebellion Pro. 270 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:33,520 Yeah, for this material, making 3D structure was not easy, but 271 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:35,800 yeah, we made it. Yeah. 272 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:40,520 But with a full carbon plate we couldn't make 3D shape, Yeah, 273 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,920 until last year. But this year we updated our 274 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:49,400 technology and finally we made it slider shaped. 275 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,280 Full carbon plate material itself is very stiff and this 276 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:57,640 structure makes it more stiff. Yeah, this is coming in the mid 277 00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:58,680 foot area. Yeah. 278 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,680 And this creates very nice stable running sensation and 279 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:09,840 similar effect with this hue geometry, yeah. 280 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,520 Oh, interesting. OK, can you might not be able 281 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:18,640 to, but can you tell us what changed with your carbon design 282 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,400 technology to allow you to make a 3D carbon plate for these 283 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:22,960 models? Yeah. 284 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,520 Yeah, yeah. So now this is, yeah, kinds of 285 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,080 very specific parts. Yeah. 286 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:36,600 Yeah, making carbon technology. But now probably I can say this 287 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:42,440 Mizuno is not running shoes specific Bond. 288 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,720 So we're producing other yeah, sporting goods category as well, 289 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:48,920 especially for the carbon technology. 290 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:54,280 We are very good at making carbon Golf Club or some other 291 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:59,200 carbon the product. Then this time we had the 292 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,440 meeting with that different specialist for different the 293 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:07,200 product category. Then, yeah, the discussion and 294 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,040 the conversation was then made another hint to create. 295 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,560 Yeah, the 3D shape food carbon plate. 296 00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:17,480 Yeah, this is coming in. Yeah, the beginning of this 297 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,360 year. Then now we can introduce this 298 00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:23,400 new technology in hyperoxide. That's great. 299 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,640 So you're saying the plate is exactly the same in the pure and 300 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:28,920 the Elite? Yes, Yeah. 301 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,640 And is the distance between the foot and the plate the same in 302 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,160 those two shoes? Yeah, same. 303 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,160 Yeah, OK. Yeah, now the stack heights, are 304 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,400 they the same between the pure and the elite? 305 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:47,120 It's different, yeah. And the four Pure is 31 five and 306 00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:52,040 the Elite IS345. Yeah, this is coming from insole 307 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,160 in order to make yeah, lighter weight. 308 00:20:55,560 --> 00:21:00,600 Pure doesn't have insole then yeah, Elite has Yeah yeah, this 309 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,520 is yeah making yes 3M difference in stack height. 310 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:06,840 OK. So all of the difference is just 311 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:08,320 from the insole. Interesting. 312 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,680 OK. Is there anything else in terms 313 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,920 of the difference between the two shoes that you think our 314 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,920 listeners might be interested in before we move on to the Pro, 315 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:20,760 which is kind of in its own category? 316 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:25,520 Yeah. Aside of material use, yeah. 317 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:30,160 And without or with insole, yeah, exactly the same, Yeah, 318 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:35,040 that's pure and elite. But this plate is working like 319 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:42,080 this geometry. So in case of this portentous 320 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,920 geometry, when the landing waste especially for the forefoot 321 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,120 running or midfoot running. So this midfoot area, this 322 00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:53,040 geometry supports shoe position. Yeah. 323 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:58,120 So when you run from the forefoot or mid foot, even you 324 00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:02,120 run with the forefoot to the mid foot, the heel area will tend to 325 00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:06,480 go down. But this stop that movement and 326 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:10,480 this creates efficient gait, this lessen workload of calf 327 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:11,720 muscle. Yeah. 328 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,480 And same thing is happening in this shoe. 329 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,840 There are no yeah, bottom switch geometry. 330 00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:22,800 But since this plate is very stiff, this support so much, 331 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:28,200 then yeah, we can create a similar effect which we have in 332 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:33,040 the rebellion forcely without having this kind of heavyweight 333 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,960 that is yeah, in both pure and elite Yeah, this is a new 334 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:42,480 mechanism to create nice efficient Yeah, the gate of the 335 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,000 run speed running in the new hyperbole. 336 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,040 Yeah, and that's very interesting. 337 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,080 And I would agree with that since that sensation, I loved 338 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:55,000 the, as you know, the Rebellion Pro one through 3 for its heel 339 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,720 geometry because it made midfoot landings just feel so natural. 340 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:03,400 And I get the exact same feeling in the hyperwarp line without 341 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,720 that aggressive heel bevel. And it makes sense that the 342 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,920 rigidity of the plate would provide a similar feeling 343 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,640 without you needing to have such an extreme geometry. 344 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:16,600 Good. Yeah, very good to hear that you 345 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,840 feel. Yeah, the similar feeling, Yeah. 346 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:23,360 And the hyper offline, yeah. Yeah, I'm loving putting Miles 347 00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:27,320 on these shoes. So let's move on to the Pro, 348 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,200 which is definitely a different shoe than the other two. 349 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:37,760 So can you first just tell our listeners what Mizuno says, the 350 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,160 intended uses for the shoe, and then how it is different from 351 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:45,280 the elite and the Pure? Yeah, the way we use it is very 352 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,520 similar to other hyper or right. So we can use this shoe for full 353 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,120 version and half version as well. 354 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,240 But the probably not for very short distance like 10 to 5 gig, 355 00:23:55,480 --> 00:24:02,880 Yeah, then I can say this shoe is simply say hybrid model 356 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:09,280 between Force Rebellion Pro and the Rebellion Pro 3 and 357 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,120 Nailbist, yeah. Yeah. 358 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:18,560 Very shortly, this is a very hyper nice material of Force 359 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,760 Rebellion Pro. Yeah, Force top and bottom 360 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:27,920 Missile is made by Missile and the XP TPEE version. 361 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,440 Yeah, this is exactly the same as Rebellion Pro 3. 362 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,080 Yeah, nice cushion. And the response we feel from 363 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,600 Rebellion Pro 3, that kind of strong cushion and the responses 364 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:46,720 coming in this shoe, Yeah, but the huge geometry is slightly 365 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:51,240 different from Rebellion Pro 3. This is way low down. 366 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:56,120 And this angle is very similar to Force Rebellion Pro and 367 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,920 exactly the same as a new Vista. Yeah, OK. 368 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,520 Then we feel, yeah, nice stability, but still we can 369 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,720 feel, yeah, Bottom is geometry, effective guide running 370 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,440 sensation. This is yeah, new hyper wall 371 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,760 pool. Now is the the plate is nylon 372 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,000 correct? Yeah, nylon base, but the carbon 373 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,840 refuse, OK, Yeah, it's stiff with a 3D shape, but different 374 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,480 from yeah when we have in fuel and elite. 375 00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:30,880 Can you tell us or show us how the plate shape is different 376 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,480 from the other two? Yeah, the form, the attitude in 377 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:39,880 order to make enough stiffness, This is not one and four, but we 378 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:45,160 have more lip on the center area to make it more stiff without 379 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,760 the feature of full carbon plate. 380 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:53,160 So it makes the shoe a little bit heavier than the other two. 381 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,520 Yeah, but the still, this is lightweight. 382 00:25:55,520 --> 00:26:03,640 This is a 7.1 oz this time. Yeah, .5 oz reduction from the 383 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,400 variant pro suite. Yeah. 384 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,440 And the still feel lively puffiness then. 385 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,200 Yeah, course this is a bit low down. 386 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,160 This creates. Yeah, nice stable feeling as 387 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:15,400 well. Yeah. 388 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,480 Yeah, I've got to say I've definitely enjoyed this shoe for 389 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,480 I I've used it for everything, actually. 390 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,960 It doesn't feel to me like a racing shoe. 391 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,440 It's definitely a little more compliant than I would like in a 392 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,600 racing shoe, but it's been great for basically any training pace 393 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,200 I'm doing. I've tested it from like 5K pace 394 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,320 up to marathon pace. I've used it on 10 mile long 395 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:43,600 runs at marathon pace and it's felt great for all of them, but 396 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,560 definitely more of a training performance shoe for me as 397 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:52,200 opposed to a racing shoe for me. But I could absolutely see it 398 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,440 being a racing shoe for many people in a similar way that the 399 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,440 Saucony Endorphins Speed line is a racing shoe for some people 400 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,520 in. For me, the Pro feels the 401 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:10,560 softest of the three and the most compliant, and I suspect 402 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,280 that's because of the combination of the different 403 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,880 midsole material, the different plate. 404 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,760 Is the plate a different distance from the foot in the 405 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,520 shoe, or is it the same as the other two shoes? 406 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,000 Yeah, distance is the same. Yeah. 407 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,160 OK. And another point we have a 408 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,240 different from the pure and elite improve is a sickness. 409 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,360 Yeah, this has, Yeah, the sickest missile, especially in 410 00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:38,160 the mid foot. Yeah, 'cause it has. 411 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,560 Yeah, the Hue, Google mm Hmm. Mid foot is thicker than the 412 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:43,720 other. OK. 413 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,400 This creates, yeah, a little bit more the cushion feeling 414 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,640 compared to the other two. At the same time though, even 415 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,800 though it is more compliant than the other two, I've found it to 416 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,480 be extremely responsive, which is a very nice combination. 417 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:04,120 So whatever combination of materials you decided to use, 418 00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:07,440 it's it's definitely a a nice new product. 419 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,680 Yeah, yeah. So yeah, exactly. 420 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:17,320 Yes, Pure, Elite and the pool each sure has very different 421 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:22,680 running sensation. Pure is yeah, crazy, right? 422 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:28,840 Yes, and nice cushion. Elite is yeah, in between pure 423 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,120 and the pro and nice balance of the cushion, right weight and 424 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:38,440 yeah, the response. Another one is yeah, the pro. 425 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,400 This creates yeah, more supportive, more cushion, Yeah, 426 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,440 more the power to go forward running sensation. 427 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,200 But yeah, it is a heaviest weight. 428 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:53,880 Yeah, 3 collection. Each shoe has at least different 429 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:58,160 running style. And yeah, if when they have 430 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,800 enough opportunity to yeah, experience, yeah, 3 shoes, yeah. 431 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,280 Easy to find the shoes for you, yeah. 432 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,600 So I think you mentioned earlier this the hyper warp line is 433 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,600 replacing the rebellion pro line. 434 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,320 So the pro 3 is the last one of the line. 435 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,760 OK, how about the flash? Will there be additional flashes 436 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,320 beyond the three? Yeah, good question. 437 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,720 Yeah, about the flash, we will continue to use that the model 438 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,840 for Yeah, a bit more. Yeah, OK, only flash will be 439 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:32,920 existing. Yeah, OK, great. 440 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,240 We just launched, Yeah, maybe I do flat suite. 441 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,400 Yeah, this is also very nice shoes. 442 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,120 It is, yeah. This is yeah, one of my go to 443 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,560 shoes and it's very yeah, nice cushion and they go yeah, forge 444 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:52,120 easily and a fortress and we can use a little yeah everything 445 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,880 about yeah, that shoe. Yeah, my Flash twos. 446 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,480 I'm still running in my original pair and they have over 300 447 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,360 miles on them and the midsole is still feeling pretty good. 448 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,760 I got to test the Flash 3 and I've got to say I like the 449 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:13,000 change in midsole better than the two, but unfortunately the 450 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,480 heel design gave me blisters so I couldn't get a ton of miles in 451 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,200 them. Yeah, it seems like the heel of 452 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,680 the three curves in a little more than the two. 453 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,000 And for me, for my heel shape, that just didn't work for me. 454 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,200 But the Flash is Flash 2 is hands down one of my favorite 455 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,880 shoes of all time. So thank you for your part in 456 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:39,520 designing that. So Mizuno has had a number of 457 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,640 exciting new shoes in the past couple of years. 458 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,800 So can we talk a little bit about the Neo Vista and the Neo 459 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,240 Zen and what's coming up for them in 2026? 460 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,120 Yeah. Thank you for saying like that. 461 00:30:54,200 --> 00:31:00,880 So this is what we are aiming, Yeah, we are now transforming a 462 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,120 lot. Yeah, yes. 463 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:07,960 We have long history in the running industry, but now, yeah, 464 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:13,880 we, all the development staff are thinking we need to change. 465 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,400 Yeah. And that chain had started from 466 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,800 the value of Pro Yeah, two years ago. 467 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,920 Then another step for us was Mizzou Nail Collection. 468 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:31,360 Yeah, from last year, Yeah, we launched Nailbista and last year 469 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,040 and the beginning of this year, we yeah, started to sell nail 470 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,200 then. And the best has updated to 471 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,560 second version in yeah, middle of this year. 472 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:46,280 So now actually we are getting more Mizzou fun with yeah, new 473 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,120 Mizzou Nail Collection. This is a very yeah, the good 474 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:54,760 momentum for Missoula, Yeah, it is very important line for yeah 475 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,560 introducing our show to new audience. 476 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:06,040 Then nail line, Why it is very important for Missoula is to to 477 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,080 last for what we made with super show development. 478 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,880 So new material or new structure to daily trainer. 479 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,640 This is yeah, the role of Missoula Nail Collection, yeah, 480 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,880 we use yeah, not so aggressive like a regarding Prosti, but 481 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,360 bottom, so geometry efficient gate. 482 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:29,640 We implemented it into Vista and Xen and the new Billy Lively 483 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:34,080 material is also implemented to Vista and Xen. 484 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:39,680 Yeah, this is yeah that very nice cycle for us make nice new 485 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,160 innovation with the racing shoe and the bringing that into daily 486 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,440 tourism reasonable nail line. This is what we are doing now, 487 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,280 yeah. Then, so we will not stop this 488 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,880 nice calculation for next year. Yeah, yeah, great. 489 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,400 Then this is this is published after the running event, I think 490 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,200 yes. Then now I can say about the 491 00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:59,720 nails and two. Awesome. 492 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,960 Yeah. Then Gen. 2 is, yeah, actually 493 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,880 Gen. one, we got very nice feedback done. 494 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,840 We thought, yeah, much more nicer feedback, yeah, than we 495 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,680 thought. Then we are very happy to, yeah, 496 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,680 know that many people are enjoying the feeling of nail Zen 497 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:22,520 in all over the world. But when we got the feedback 498 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:27,960 about the nail Zen one, some people feel it's very nice soft 499 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:32,920 shoes, but sometimes too soft, a bit unstable. 500 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,440 Yeah. In order to use that shoe for 501 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:40,640 everyday running, then we're aiming for them to is keep it 502 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,320 lightweight, keep it very nice cushion, keep it responsive 503 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,240 advanced daily here, but make it a little bit more little bit 504 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,680 more structured feeling. Yeah. 505 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:56,240 Then now I can say with a nails and Sue so nice feeling over 506 00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:01,040 then so we can easily control that directional balance to go 507 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,880 forward. Yeah, with the tails and force, 508 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,760 it was good softness, but sometimes the softness and the 509 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,639 bounceness is going to in a different way. 510 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:15,159 But now with the nails and two, we can go to force easily. 511 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,480 Yeah, this is a big change from nails and 1:00 to 2:00. 512 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:24,320 And in order to achieve that sensation, we arrange the 513 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:29,520 missile material, the internal structure a bit, then we may 514 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:34,360 heal counter and the Apple side. This is a big update for now 515 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:41,600 then makes more secure heel fitting, creates nice holdable 516 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:47,199 entire shoe fitting, then go to forward easily without any Yeah 517 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:54,480 unstable yeah blouseness. Yeah. 518 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:59,200 So will it continue with the sock like upper with the heel 519 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,160 counter or? This is also a bit changes. 520 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:07,800 So for Nelson one we use a one piece sock like upper, but the 521 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,760 Zen two we keep nice. Yeah, yeah, that's the Zen 1. 522 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:17,480 So we keep that nicer version, nicer part of the Nick upper, so 523 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,360 it fits to shoe fit to your foot so much. 524 00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:24,400 OK, so we keep that knit feeling on the tongue area. 525 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,960 Yeah, but the results, the rest of the area is made by normal 526 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,480 mesh. Then we have hue count on the 527 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:39,120 hillside that creates yeah, nice secure feeling for then upper on 528 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,240 the second version. And then did you change anything 529 00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:46,360 about the midsole material to make it a little more 530 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:47,960 responsive? Yeah. 531 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:52,880 So more response that limit, more structured stable feeling. 532 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,200 It's yeah, our target for them too. 533 00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:01,040 And then we change the base material a bit and yeah, keep it 534 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:06,600 soft, keep it responsive. But yeah, a bit easy to control. 535 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,960 And will it still have a pretty filled in base like the 536 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:14,400 original? Or yeah. 537 00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:20,000 Even more filled in. Yeah, regarding also we have bit 538 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:25,880 more the form on the forefoot when we yeah look at the nails 539 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:31,840 in one bottom, so, so big glue is coming from here side to 540 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:37,280 forfeit, but that we filled out glue on the forefoot who have 541 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:41,360 more form to make more nice kicking out feeling. 542 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:43,400 Yeah, when they kick off, Yeah, OK. 543 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,080 In the hue side we still have that kind of glue to make it 544 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,120 more softer running phase. But therefore, yeah, forefoot, 545 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:51,880 we two out. Makes sense. 546 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:57,560 And then we've also got Neo Vista 2, which you're kind of 547 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,800 what you're describing that you did to Neo Zen 2 is kind of 548 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,640 similar to how Neo Vista One progressed to two. 549 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:10,320 You filled in. Yeah, Neo Vista One had a huge 550 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,240 cut out, whereas here you at least made it a little smaller 551 00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:16,600 and this gave it a little more stability in the midfoot. 552 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,680 So is that kind of what's happening with Neo Zen 2? 553 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,040 Yeah, yeah. And. 554 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:27,640 Will we see a Neo Vista 3 next year? 555 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:34,840 Yeah, somewhere in 2026, yeah, you will be able to see updated 556 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:39,160 version of Vista and yeah, I believe the election of the 557 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,920 evolution is similar to what we are doing in the nails and two. 558 00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:48,400 Yeah, Baster 2 has Yeah, TPU based visual engine is very 559 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:49,840 nice. Yeah, naturally if you the 560 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:54,240 missile on the top side it creates yeah huge that only 561 00:37:54,240 --> 00:38:00,520 feeling, but same as nails and one yeah, some runner cannot 562 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,880 control the way of balance. Yeah and densely. 563 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:09,880 No, no, another updated version vister coming in, Yeah, next 564 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:14,040 year will support that point and easy to go forward. 565 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,200 Yeah, so. Keeping that nice bounciness. 566 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,840 More filled in in the forefoot again or some other design 567 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:23,400 change that. Kind of that kind of. 568 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:28,360 Yeah, OK, very exciting. And then one of I would say one 569 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,520 of the biggest changes we saw this year was the update to the 570 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:36,000 Wave Rider 29. Yes. 571 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,080 And that's not a shoe that I run in. 572 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,360 I just, I can't run in. I drop shoes like that. 573 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,760 So I can't really comment on my feelings on it. 574 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,960 But what should we expect for Wave Rider 30? 575 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,040 Are you going to make another big change? 576 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,560 Yeah, yes. So now we see where were the 577 00:38:55,560 --> 00:39:02,040 29th, so means, yeah, next yeah addition will be Riders 30. 578 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,880 Yeah. And like when we look at running 579 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:11,680 the shoe industry, sometimes we see big change of their all of 580 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,280 us legendary model. Yeah, in specific timing, yeah, 581 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:20,160 I can say Riders 30 would be the big change, yeah. 582 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:26,040 Bigger change than 28 to 29. Wow, will be Yeah. 583 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:31,720 Actually, when we, when I say, yeah, if I say 28 to 29 is a big 584 00:39:31,720 --> 00:39:35,280 step of writer changes, Yeah, actually it was big, big step 585 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,720 for us. Yeah, changes the drop and 586 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,760 change it miss the material, Yeah. 587 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:46,480 But I can say at the same time, 29 to Saudi is a huge step for 588 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:47,840 writer history. Yeah. 589 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:53,200 And will that be in 2026? Yeah, yeah, 2026 I can say. 590 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:53,680 Yeah. OK. 591 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,360 And, and can you tell us more about those changes or is it too 592 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,400 early to talk about? A bit too early, but OK. 593 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:09,240 What I can say for Matt Nick's next writer is we don't stick to 594 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,560 the week. Authentic classic writer setting 595 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:15,280 by the structure. Yeah. 596 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:16,680 Yeah. What? 597 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:22,400 What we are aiming is to make very nice smooth transition 598 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:26,280 daily trainer with the latest material, latest our knowledge, 599 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:30,120 latest experience, So we don't need to stick to very 600 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:35,520 traditional web rider structure. Yeah, make best smooth daily 601 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:40,120 running shoot 2026 and then we can name it as a web rider. 602 00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:43,000 That is exciting. Maybe it will be a wave rider 603 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:44,000 that I'll enjoy. Yeah, yeah. 604 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:49,760 Yeah, Yeah, of course Wave rider has big audience, big fun, 605 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:50,960 right? Of course. 606 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,720 Yeah. So we are, we want to make the 607 00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:58,520 existing rider fun, excited. Yeah, it is very important thing 608 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,520 for us. But another challenge for us is 609 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:06,680 that to introduce our legendary model to, yeah, a bit more 610 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,560 audience. Yeah, totally. 611 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:14,360 Yeah, 2026 is a big year of web rider for Missoula. 612 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:19,120 Oh, that's exciting, yeah. Anything else in the pipeline 613 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,480 that we haven't talked about yet that's coming up in 2026? 614 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,320 Yes, a lot. Yeah, yeah. 615 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,880 Anything you would like to or can share with our listeners? 616 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:39,680 Yeah, what I can say now is, yeah, as I mentioned in the 617 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:45,080 section before, Mizuno is not quiet now. 618 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,440 Yeah. We are aiming to transform 619 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:53,840 Mizuno Run ourselves, Yeah, In order to introduce Mizuno Run to 620 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,200 more audience and in order to make more people happy with our 621 00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,160 running product. So what we can do, what we need 622 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:04,040 to do is we need to change. We need to transform ourselves, 623 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,360 Yeah. So we have very nice history, we 624 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,560 have very nice material, we have that very nice infrastructure 625 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:15,120 like Innovation Center in Japan. But how we use it is depend on 626 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:20,000 us. Yeah, currently, yeah, the 627 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,840 latest running product team is very energetic. 628 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,280 Everyone want to change our brand history with our product. 629 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:32,720 Yeah, that is the reason why we are, Yeah, producing very new 630 00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:35,280 product in recent years. Yeah. 631 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,520 We don't stop that momentum for next year and next, next year as 632 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,480 well. Yeah, we will keep going. 633 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,360 We were changing. We keep changing, Yeah. 634 00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:50,400 I hope the audience of this podcast will enjoy how Mizuno 635 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,800 will. Yeah, transforming for next year 636 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:55,640 and next year as well. Yeah. 637 00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:59,080 Again, and you know, we always love hearing from our listeners 638 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,160 and I'm sure we'll get lots of comments on the YouTube version 639 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:06,160 of this about what people think about all of the changes. 640 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,080 So it'll be interesting to read those. 641 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,280 And just one last question, I know we've run a little bit over 642 00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:16,680 time, but where do you see racing shoes going in 2027 and 643 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:18,560 beyond? You know, we've seen some huge 644 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:22,840 changes with geometries, foams, weights. 645 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:27,240 It seems like most companies have tried to make a super 646 00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:30,880 lightweight racing shoe in the past couple years, like the Pure 647 00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,480 for you. So where do you see super shoes 648 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:42,280 going 2-3 five years from now? Yeah, probably everyone in 649 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:43,960 running industry is thinking of this. 650 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:48,840 Yeah, kind of question that I am one of them, Then I can say 651 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,280 evolution of material will be continued. 652 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,840 Yeah. So nowadays we can see very 653 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,840 lighter weight material with a nice response in the cushion. 654 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:04,440 But that kind of evolution will be continued for next year, next 655 00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:09,560 next year, I think even we are going to make new material for 656 00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,080 future season. Yeah, that kind of evolution 657 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:16,640 material will be continued. But another thing we have a lot 658 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:22,160 of things to touch. Yeah, bottom saw geometry or 659 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:26,720 yeah like I said today So what is the best Yeah, the formula 660 00:44:26,720 --> 00:44:31,600 for the bottom. So why with then yeah, where is 661 00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,600 the best point to start local sensation Yeah, what is that 662 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,880 very best of hill level yeah, then yeah regarding upper 663 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,000 material as well. So what is our best upper 664 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,480 material for racing shoes? So some of the points we can 665 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:52,440 touch to create product then Now I can say hyper pure, our 666 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:57,000 Hypervoline is very well harmonized, very nice balance of 667 00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:02,920 structure and material. But if we update feature or 668 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:07,280 material, yeah, we need to change everything, yeah, because 669 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:13,560 this plate Lingus nephlate structure is made for this 670 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,920 material. If we update feature material, 671 00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:20,640 we need to change everything, yeah, to make it more harmonized 672 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,160 to, to make very nice running sensation. 673 00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:27,520 So material evolution is still very important. 674 00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,560 Yeah, in next few years. But other things, yeah, a lot of 675 00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,240 things we can touch to create better products. 676 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:36,520 Absolutely, Yeah. I think that's a really good 677 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:40,280 point that so many, you know, just everyday runners who don't 678 00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,920 nerd out about shoes the way that we do things like, oh, it's 679 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,320 just the plate that is the magic of these super shoes, or it's 680 00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,120 just the foam. But we really know that it's the 681 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,080 interaction of all of the features of the shoe that 682 00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:57,680 produces the outcome. So when you tweak one thing, you 683 00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,080 have to change everything else around it. 684 00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:04,920 Yeah. It takes time, yeah, but I don't 685 00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:07,800 think that it is very fun, yeah, to create. 686 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,880 Yeah, a very new running sensation with the updated 687 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,080 material. Yes, Yeah, a lot of 688 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,120 experimentation. OK, we changed this one thing a 689 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,000 little bit. How did that change the 690 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,960 sensation? Yeah, lots of iterations. 691 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:27,760 Yeah, Sometimes after we make some samples, yeah, material 692 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,920 innovation team, we make, Yeah, another very nice material. 693 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,280 Yeah. In that case, it's very 694 00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,280 difficult to say, but we need to change everything. 695 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,840 Yes. Yeah, it takes time. 696 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:46,720 It takes, yeah, tons of effort. But this is Missoula, I think. 697 00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:49,360 Yeah, In order to make good running shoes. 698 00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,360 Yeah, we can start completely from zero. 699 00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,160 Yeah. Then make it. 700 00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,200 Yeah, better shoes. Yeah, that's what we need to do. 701 00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,720 Yeah, that's great. Well, Shinsuke, thank you so 702 00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:06,440 much for joining me today and telling us about your 2026 line. 703 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:10,200 I hope our listeners learned a lot about just the development 704 00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,400 and the properties of these new shoes. 705 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,200 As always, listeners, if you've got questions, leave them in the 706 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,320 comments or send us an e-mail, doctorsrunning@gmail.com. 707 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,600 Thanks so much for joining me. Have a great rest of your day. 708 00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:26,080 Yeah. You too. 709 00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:26,680 Thank you.