1
00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:10,840
Hey everyone and welcome to 
doctors running podcast where we

2
00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:13,640
a group of doctors physical 
therapy talk about the art and 

3
00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,880
the science that things put on 
our feet today Andrew and I are 

4
00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,280
going to start do we want to 
call this official thing called 

5
00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,760
Andrew and Matt disagree and 
talk about shoes that we have 

6
00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,360
very different opinions on but 
we thought instead of we this 

7
00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:29,600
started with the socketing 
endorphin Pro 4. 

8
00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:31,720
We actually, I made an episode 
about it that I actually 

9
00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:33,120
personally really, really 
enjoyed. 

10
00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:34,440
I think hopefully I can speak 
for you as well. 

11
00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:36,280
It was really fun. 
Oh yeah, it was a lot of fun. 

12
00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:38,960
But it kind of speaks to the 
fact and one of the major 

13
00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,280
reasons we try to have as many 
reviewers from our team on a 

14
00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,800
review issue as possible is that
different people have different 

15
00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,240
perceptions of shoes. 
And that's actually totally 

16
00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,280
normal. 
If you follow those for a while,

17
00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,600
you know that we've talked about
the fact that things like the 

18
00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,720
comfort filter and other factors
that sometimes bio mechanics 

19
00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,160
cannot and frequently cannot 
fully explain why somebody 

20
00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,080
responds to a shoe in a certain 
way or how they perceive it. 

21
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,879
Because bio mechanics only 
usually looks at, you know, the 

22
00:01:04,879 --> 00:01:07,440
physical, the physics, the 
physical part and do it. 

23
00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,640
It doesn't take into account the
sensory part of your nervous 

24
00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:12,920
system, which is how we perceive
the world around us. 

25
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:18,000
So we thought instead of arguing
about this just behind closed 

26
00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,480
doors, we'd actually share this 
with you so you could learn a 

27
00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:22,800
little bit about what works for 
you because different people 

28
00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,080
perceive things differently. 
And if you are looking for a 

29
00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,240
your viewer, you, we don't 
necessarily want you just to 

30
00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:31,280
focus on us. 
We want you to if, if one of our

31
00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,680
team members is somebody that 
you really identify and you find

32
00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,600
similar kind of taste to 
awesome, like that's a great 

33
00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,560
person to follow. 
But if it's somebody else, 

34
00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,200
that's great because what we 
care about is helping you figure

35
00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,280
out what really works best for 
you and identifying who might 

36
00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,720
have a good kind of idea based 
on what's similar. 

37
00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,800
So Andrew, if you don't mind, 
could you take us in a little 

38
00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:56,040
bit about some of the things 
that influence how we perceive? 

39
00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,680
Sure. 
So I loved our Endorphin Pro 4 

40
00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:02,720
episode map, by the way. 
It was a lot of fun. 

41
00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,840
And I think it's, yeah. 
I also like that people, we did 

42
00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,759
not do this by the way, we had 
people going team Andrea or Team

43
00:02:08,759 --> 00:02:13,040
Matt and that was not what our 
intention was at all. 

44
00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:14,680
But it happened and we were 
laughing. 

45
00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,760
It was hilarious. 
But yeah, that's that's maybe 

46
00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:20,720
that might be like a 
competitive, like fun 

47
00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:22,760
competitive thing. 
If if this actually if we 

48
00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:24,840
actually keep doing those about 
shoes we disagree on. 

49
00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,800
You and I can get shirts that we
wear for these episodes the 

50
00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,880
same. 
Yeah, so right. 

51
00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,560
If we agree do have to wear the 
other like also we have to get 

52
00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,080
one of each. 
So we have to wear like the the 

53
00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:38,280
correctly. 
It's like, alright, this is 

54
00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:39,920
we're both on Team Andrea on 
this one. 

55
00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,040
Right. 
Also, Matt has a confession 

56
00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,560
about his feelings about the 
Endorphin Pro 4 that we'll get 

57
00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:51,440
into later, so. 
Yeah. 

58
00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,400
You're going to put on your team
at Andrea shirt second and a 

59
00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:55,960
half. 
Yeah. 

60
00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:02,120
So when we talk about why a shoe
works for a specific person, of 

61
00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,880
course a shoe that works for me 
isn't necessarily going to work 

62
00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,160
well for everyone. 
Same thing with Matt. 

63
00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:09,840
We're all very different human 
beings. 

64
00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,680
We've got different fitness 
backgrounds. 

65
00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:17,520
We have different physiological 
characteristics, right joint 

66
00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:21,880
range of motion, muscle string. 
There are so many factors that 

67
00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:26,840
go into why a particular shoe 
might work well for one person 

68
00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,520
and be another person's least 
favorite shoe. 

69
00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,200
But a couple concepts that we've
talked about a lot here on the 

70
00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:37,840
podcast and on our website are 
the comfort filter and the 

71
00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,680
preferred movement pathway. 
So, you know, we've, there are 

72
00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,840
all sorts of studies trying to 
figure out why people do better 

73
00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:49,400
in different shoes. 
And it really comes down to does

74
00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,280
a person perceive this 
particular shoe to be 

75
00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:57,520
comfortable to run in and does 
IT support you in moving in your

76
00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,480
preferred movement pathway? 
Meaning to put it the simplest, 

77
00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,280
I tend to land at my midfoot mat
tends to land at his heel. 

78
00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,560
That really changes how we 
experience shoes because of the 

79
00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,640
geometry of a shoe where the 
cushioning is located. 

80
00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,959
Just the simple fact of very 
different landing locations will

81
00:04:17,959 --> 00:04:21,399
change dramatically how we 
experience a shoe. 

82
00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:27,480
So when it comes to the comfort 
filter, that can describe well, 

83
00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:31,400
do you prefer a softer shoe? 
Do you prefer a firmer shoe? 

84
00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,040
Do you like a shoe that has a 
lot of bounce or resilience? 

85
00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,240
Do you prefer a shoe that kind 
of just gets out of the way and 

86
00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,040
doesn't assist you much in 
running, meaning doesn't have 

87
00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,400
much rocker geometry? 
It doesn't have a super bouncy 

88
00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:48,920
foam. 
It's more like the old school 

89
00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:53,040
racing flats from 20 years ago 
that we like to talk about on 

90
00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:58,160
here sometimes. 
So that's just those 

91
00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:02,120
characteristics are not innate, 
but there are somewhat fixed. 

92
00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:07,000
Like it's hard to change what 
type of shoe you like. 

93
00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:12,640
If for the past 10 years you've 
really enjoyed running in soft, 

94
00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:17,920
bouncy shoes, it's unlikely that
five years from now you're only 

95
00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,680
going to want to run in firm, 
really low stack shoes. 

96
00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:27,480
Unless something dramatic 
changes about your body or you 

97
00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:31,000
for some reason decide to train 
yourself to enjoy running in 

98
00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:35,000
very firm, low stack shoes, what
feels comfortable to you is 

99
00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:39,360
going to be relatively fixed. 
The other thing is your 

100
00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:44,200
preferred movement pathway. 
It's not fixed, but it's harder 

101
00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:48,720
to change than people think. 
You know, 1520 years ago when 

102
00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,120
Born to Run came out and 
everybody decided to become 4 

103
00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,280
foot strikers. 
Now we've seen what has happened

104
00:05:55,280 --> 00:05:59,720
as a result of that, which was a
lot of foot and ankle injuries, 

105
00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,120
calf injuries for people who 
tried to essentially change 

106
00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,200
their preferred movement pathway
too quickly. 

107
00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:09,120
Now, that's not to say that some
people haven't successfully 

108
00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,320
switched their landing pattern 
from, let's say a heel strike 

109
00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,400
pattern to a mid foot or 4 foot 
strike. 

110
00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,720
But typically people who are 
successful at that do so over a 

111
00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,360
long period of time. 
And there was a recent study 

112
00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:27,000
that really suggests that it 
takes about a year to do that. 

113
00:06:27,280 --> 00:06:30,120
That article by Irene Davis. 
Was that what you were going to 

114
00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:32,080
bring up, Matt? 
Yeah, that was my exact topic 

115
00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,160
that from a clinical standpoint,
I think it was Irene who I think

116
00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,760
it was that same article that 
suggested a couple other 

117
00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,560
articles that talked about the 
fact that it takes at least 6 to

118
00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,560
9 months if not longer to make 
that change. 

119
00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,560
And it's not just creating a new
movement pattern, but it's also 

120
00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:52,400
the fact that you all those 
tissues that you now you're 

121
00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:56,000
changing load foots. 
When you change foot strike, you

122
00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,560
don't reduce the total load 
that's going through. 

123
00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,440
Look, you're still going to land
just as hard. 

124
00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:05,440
It's where the the tissues that 
where that load goes is what 

125
00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,960
changes. 
And so that takes time for that 

126
00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,240
stuff to adapt. 
And that's where a really great 

127
00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,400
example that you brought up was 
the whole minimalist movement 

128
00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,920
and everybody wanted to go 
barefoot and start running, 

129
00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,360
change their mechanics. 
It's not bad, it just takes time

130
00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,240
and it's also tissues getting 
adapted to it. 

131
00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,200
And so we saw a lot of 
metatarsal stress fractures. 

132
00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:30,320
We saw a lot of Achilles issues.
We saw a lot of lower extremity 

133
00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:34,200
like bone stress stuff because 
yeah, you get there when you run

134
00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,080
with less shoe or you change 
your mechanics. 

135
00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:38,760
It changes where the forces go. 
That's where there's a couple 

136
00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:40,560
really great systematic reviews 
out there. 

137
00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,720
Systematic reviews are they take
all the as much evidence out 

138
00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:45,440
there as available and 
synthesize it together, which 

139
00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,960
said there's no difference in 
injury rates between heel 

140
00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:51,280
striking, forward striking, 
whatever. 

141
00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:55,120
It's just different types. 
So if you really want to make 

142
00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,000
this change, you got to be in it
for the long haul to get not 

143
00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,880
only your movement to change, 
but also the tissues to get used

144
00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,400
to what you're asking them. 
Or if you do things too quickly,

145
00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,640
too aggressively. 
That's generally where injuries 

146
00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,240
happen. 
I just saw an I can't remember 

147
00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,720
who used this reference might 
have been Steve Magnus but it 

148
00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:16,440
might have been some other 
running. 

149
00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:22,840
You know person online said it's
the rule of twos TOOS you'll get

150
00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:28,000
injured if you do too much 
volume to soon or too much 

151
00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:33,400
intensity too soon. 
I thought that was a good way of

152
00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:37,159
describing things that make you 
more likely to get injured and 

153
00:08:37,159 --> 00:08:38,640
as a runner. 
I totally agree. 

154
00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:43,480
Yeah, little side note. 
So, yeah, I think, you know, 

155
00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,480
without turning this into a 
discussion on minimalist 

156
00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:50,440
footwear, I think that is a good
example of, yes, you can change 

157
00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:54,000
your preferred movement pathway,
but it takes a long time and it 

158
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,440
takes a lot of work. 
So in general, if you're not 

159
00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:01,960
trying to change your foot 
strike, the way that you run and

160
00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,320
the way that you land is going 
to be pretty much fixed now, 

161
00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:07,760
yes. 
Could you change your cadence by

162
00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,800
5 steps per minute if you used a
metronome or focused on it? 

163
00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,760
Could you change like small 
aspects of your gate pattern 

164
00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,960
with various queues? 
Yes, yeah, yeah. 

165
00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,160
I would say before we go any 
farther that we need to clarify 

166
00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:23,760
that we're not just talking 
about foot strike. 

167
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,760
We're using that as an as an 
example of the many mechanical 

168
00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,440
things that you could buy, 
mechanical things you can do and

169
00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,720
separate and all these other 
things and separates. 

170
00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:37,200
Really hot right now, probably 
because I listen to a lot of 

171
00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:41,600
Brian Heidrich right now. 
But yeah, any of this stuff is 

172
00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,320
things that you could be super 
high, trying to go low, super 

173
00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,080
low trying to go high, changing 
foot strike, changing the type 

174
00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,080
of cushioning that you like. 
All the stuff kind of takes some

175
00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,000
time. 
So just want to clarify. 

176
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,960
That yeah. 
So it is changeable, it just 

177
00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,760
takes work. 
But whatever your current 

178
00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:03,960
preferred movement pathway is 
now is going to greatly affect 

179
00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,160
what shoes you like. 
And that's kind of the whole 

180
00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:10,040
point of this episode is Matt 
and I were very different in a 

181
00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,880
lot of aspects. 
And it illustrates, one, why 

182
00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,520
just cause your best friend runs
in a particular shoe might not 

183
00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,160
be the greatest shoe for you. 
And two, what Matt said earlier,

184
00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:25,120
it can help if you find, you 
know, one of us on Dor who seems

185
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,680
to like the same shoes as you or
you've seen a video of us 

186
00:10:28,680 --> 00:10:32,280
running and it's like, Hon, they
kind of, they look like I run. 

187
00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:38,080
Then our shoes that we enjoy 
might also be shoes that work 

188
00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:39,800
well for you. 
Matt's laughing. 

189
00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,160
I'm laughing because when we we 
had the good fortune to actually

190
00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,000
finally meet in person, we went 
to a really cool trip with 

191
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,840
Saucony in Boston. 
Was that is that two years ago? 

192
00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:51,880
No, I think. 
No. 

193
00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:53,120
Yeah, yeah. 
OK. 

194
00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,600
Gosh, I was like going, Oh my 
gosh, did that already go by so 

195
00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,880
that quick and it was really fun
to finally meet in person. 

196
00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,680
And then also Andrew's like, oh,
he actually jokes like this in 

197
00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:03,000
real life too. 
Oh, I didn't realize. 

198
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,560
No, I'm just kidding. 
But watching each one of us run 

199
00:11:06,560 --> 00:11:08,640
on the treadmill, just like 
could not be. 

200
00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,360
I wish we could have had a video
of a side to side, just how 

201
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,760
different our mechanics are. 
I I would describe Andrew's 

202
00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,640
mechanics. 
So you glide really well over 

203
00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:19,240
the ground. 
It's like very efficient. 

204
00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:23,200
I would consider myself the 
exact opposite of that. 

205
00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,960
I'm surprised the treadmill 
didn't get busted into the floor

206
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,360
below. 
Somehow I can run far even 

207
00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:29,800
though it looks very 
inefficient. 

208
00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,720
So yeah, I just want to have 
that commentary on there that we

209
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:36,760
are very different. 
And the day before we went to 

210
00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:40,880
Saucony, you, me and David went 
for a run together in the dark, 

211
00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,240
in the rain. 
But even though it was dark, it 

212
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,640
was striking just how 
differently the three of us run.

213
00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:48,520
You know, we're all going the 
same pace. 

214
00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,520
Obviously, you know, I'm not as 
fast as you guys, but we were 

215
00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,360
all running together. 
So you guys were running super 

216
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,600
easy. 
I was running, you know, easy 

217
00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,960
ish. 
But just the difference in our 

218
00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:05,040
cadence, our foot strike, the 
sound of our running gate, yes, 

219
00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,960
Oh yeah. 
But it's it's a good testament 

220
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:13,000
to there is really no one right 
way to run. 

221
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,080
And you know, the best way to 
see that is just watch the front

222
00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,880
of any major marathon and see 
the differences in gait 

223
00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,040
patterns. 
Those are the best runners in 

224
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,160
the world and. 
That reminds me, so a lot of the

225
00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,960
research I, I, I always forget 
about this, but when I was in 

226
00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,480
college, I was looking at this 
because I remember going, Oh, 

227
00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,520
what's the best running form was
this and that. 

228
00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,240
And I was very surprised to find
that none of that research was 

229
00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:38,720
being done while I was in 
college. 

230
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:43,520
And that was in like, you know, 
the, the 2010 ish era and the, 

231
00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,680
the early, the latest that I 
could find was in the like late 

232
00:12:46,680 --> 00:12:51,440
1980s and was by I'm forgetting 
the first name, but a research 

233
00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,960
name, Kavana. 
And he was the one he or she, I 

234
00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,360
can't remember. 
They were studying elite runners

235
00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,160
and comparing it to sub elite 
runners. 

236
00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:03,960
And they were like these mild 
minute biomechanical things, but

237
00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,880
outside of that, they actually 
weren't that difference. 

238
00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,120
And even within the elite 
runners, the variance between 

239
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,840
them was incredibly high. 
And it was basically like, well,

240
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,680
there's variation in different 
people make different movement 

241
00:13:16,680 --> 00:13:19,600
patterns efficient for them. 
But you know, running mechanics 

242
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,880
is important, but there are a 
lot of factors. 

243
00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:23,160
And this is kind of what the 
evidence is. 

244
00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,960
This is really multifactorial 
and what makes people fast, what

245
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,800
makes people feel things. 
There's a lot that goes on. 

246
00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,880
So elite runners, there's not 
like everybody like likes to 

247
00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,320
look at them was like trust. 
That's not always the most 

248
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:36,840
perfect thing for you, 
especially because it's it's not

249
00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:38,640
the same. 
Even among them, it's not the 

250
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,200
same. 
Oh absolutely. 

251
00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,520
Yeah. 
The variation in gait pattern 

252
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,800
amongst let's say like the front
10 and Berlin or Chicago or 

253
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,760
Boston is huge. 
So again, just an illustration 

254
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:57,080
of each runner is a unique 
individual and what works for 

255
00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,720
your friend isn't necessarily 
going to work for you. 

256
00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:05,000
So getting back to, you know, 
talking about the comfort filter

257
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,960
and the preferred movement 
pathway, I think there are a few

258
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,760
comfort related things that are 
important to bring up that 

259
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:13,720
people don't necessarily think 
about. 

260
00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:20,560
One thing that bothers me quite 
a bit and I when I try on shoes 

261
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:25,320
often I need to go up a half 
size because for my foot length 

262
00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:29,680
my toes are kind of short. 
So it often makes my first MTP 

263
00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,560
joint, which is that joint at 
the base of the big toe line up 

264
00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,480
incorrectly with the rocker 
because it puts, it puts the 

265
00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,800
rocker behind my first MTP 
joint, which feels very 

266
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,720
uncomfortable to have a pivot 
point basically in my midfoot 

267
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,960
where that part of your foot 
doesn't move in the sagittal 

268
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,880
plane. 
So that's one thing to just be 

269
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,560
aware of with yourself. 
Like what's my toe length 

270
00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:57,640
compared to my foot? 
Like how do my toes look 

271
00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:02,240
compared to like my friends who 
have similar length feet, arch 

272
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:07,680
height, overall foot width, You 
know, how wide is your forefoot?

273
00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,160
How wide is your midfoot? 
How wide is your heel? 

274
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,200
Those things are going to 
influence how comfortable a shoe

275
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,480
is for you. 
So it's not just about your 

276
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,040
running gait, it's also about 
your foot shape and structure, 

277
00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,160
how a shoe is going to feel as 
you perform. 

278
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,600
I think 1 shoe that Matt and I 
both had some issues with 

279
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,240
recently was the Nike Pegasus 
Plus, because the midfoot is 

280
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,440
really loose and for me it gave 
me a lot of calluses just 

281
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,960
because I felt like I couldn't 
lock my foot down at all. 

282
00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,920
And then did your have your had 
similar issues with that? 

283
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,520
Yeah, it wasn't I actually I and
here's the interesting question 

284
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,240
that you just mentioned is fit 
can also influence the 

285
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,200
perception of ride. 
So I just had AI had a hard time

286
00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,120
locking down the forefoot was 
tapered quite a bit, which 

287
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,320
opened up a little bit. 
The heel was fairly decent and 

288
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,960
then the midfoot yeah, just felt
like it was fairly wide and I 

289
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,920
had to really lock the laces 
down to the point that it was 

290
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,880
kind of uncomfortable my foot 
and I couldn't get that just 

291
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,360
right feel. 
So I'm almost wondering if 

292
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,120
because I was sliding around 
just a little bit, I didn't 

293
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:14,680
actually hit the sole the same 
way. 

294
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,520
Maybe I wasn't loading the Zoom 
X the way I was supposed to. 

295
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,760
But yeah, I had a very similar 
experience where I kind of 

296
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,360
struggled with lockdown and I 
don't know if that may have 

297
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,360
influenced how I perceived the 
overall shoe. 

298
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,320
And then I would say, and you 
just alluded to it, some people 

299
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,720
are just more sensitive than 
others to discomfort. 

300
00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,520
Like I would say that I am a 
little more sensitive than 

301
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,040
average. 
So like if I get a shoe to test 

302
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:44,000
and there's just something about
the fit that's uncomfortable, it

303
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,040
could be like the best shoe in 
the world for me. 

304
00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,720
But I'm going to hate it because
I just can't stop thinking about

305
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,200
the thing that is irritating my 
foot. 

306
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,280
And there are other people who, 
you know, they could be bleeding

307
00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,200
and they're like, like, this is 
a great shoe. 

308
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,320
I feel so fast and comfortable 
in it. 

309
00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:04,400
So I you've also got to kind of 
know that about yourself, like 

310
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,800
how much tolerance you have just
for like sensory input. 

311
00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:13,640
Where would you consider 
yourself on that spectrum, Matt?

312
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:17,520
I think I've gotten, I used to 
be super sensitive, like if it 

313
00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:19,119
was something was off, I'd take 
the shoe off. 

314
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:23,359
Like I'm not wearing this. 
I've gotten much more increased 

315
00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:28,119
tolerance, probably due to how 
much we've tested, but also 

316
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:31,920
maybe I geek out and like, I 
really wanna like it. 

317
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,640
Like I, I don't mean to be rude 
with this comment, but the SC 

318
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,200
trainer version 3 is one of 
those shoes where I like really 

319
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,000
didn't like it. 
And somehow I still got 100 

320
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,440
miles on it And I every time I 
put it on I'm like, I don't 

321
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,760
really like this. 
And then I still go running it. 

322
00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:47,600
And so now hopefully block posts
100 mile review because it was 

323
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:49,400
kind of awkward. 
I feel like I did that video 

324
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,000
really awkward. 
They definitely ended it 

325
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,960
awkwardly admitting I didn't 
know how to end videos twice. 

326
00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:00,560
But yeah, I think I've gotten 
more tolerant to things to an 

327
00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,360
extent. 
I I definitely notice them, but 

328
00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:06,000
I think I'm usually so focused 
on just trying to get the run in

329
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:07,680
that maybe I can just block it 
out. 

330
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,960
But I also do definitely notice 
my mood influences this. 

331
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,160
Like if I'm having a bad day and
I'm pissed off, that can totally

332
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,080
ruin and potentially forever 
ruin a shoot for me. 

333
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,960
So I said be very careful with 
my initial perceptions. 

334
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,080
Like especially if he gets 
excited for something and I'm 

335
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,440
like, this is going to be great.
And like, something's off. 

336
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,680
And I'm like, Dang it, like this
shoe sucks. 

337
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,600
And I've had runs where I'm 
like, OK, I have to like come 

338
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,160
home, take the shoe off and go. 
I have to start over tomorrow 

339
00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,360
because this is not an 
appropriate way to analyze this 

340
00:18:35,360 --> 00:18:37,240
shoe. 
And This is why we try to get a 

341
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,640
good number of miles in an issue
review is never, never great. 

342
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,360
But yeah, that was a long winded
way of saying I am tolerable, 

343
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:45,680
tolerant. 
I am tolerant, but depending on 

344
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,240
the day. 
So we all have our moments. 

345
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,560
Yeah. 
I would also say I've noted like

346
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,480
the past few years I've been 
focusing on the marathon, so 

347
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,360
doing higher mileage. 
And this year I've been doing a 

348
00:18:57,360 --> 00:18:59,920
little lower mileage, focusing 
on shorter races. 

349
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:04,480
And when you're not as tired, 
you have a little more tolerance

350
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:09,560
for discomfort than when you're 
like exhausted from like the 20 

351
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:13,600
Miller you did yesterday. 
So I feel like I have more just 

352
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:18,960
like tolerance for shoes that 
are maybe not perfect this year 

353
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,920
than I have in past years. 
And it actually kind of makes me

354
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,840
want to grab some shoes. 
I tested last year that I was 

355
00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:29,360
like, oh you know this weird 
thing about the heel bothered me

356
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:32,160
and just go for running it and 
see if it's different because I 

357
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,200
bet it will be. 
It might be that'd be really. 

358
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,040
I see. 
And I need to admit to the 

359
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,680
viewers that beforehand we were 
trying to figure out what shoes 

360
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,600
to use to compare. 
So we had a couple that we'd had

361
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,840
we knew had some obvious 
differences recently. 

362
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,360
But one of them, we're going 
through the Mizuno Wave 

363
00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:51,480
Rebellion Flash 2 was one that I
didn't realize polarized so 

364
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,160
much. 
So Andrea is asking like, OK, 

365
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,160
like what about this issue? 
What about like, OK, same 

366
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,200
response, same response. 
And then she goes, what do you 

367
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,440
think about the Mizuno Wave 
Rebellion Flash 2? 

368
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,240
And I'll say my response was 
gross. 

369
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,440
And her, her response was just, 
there was silence for a second. 

370
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,600
And then it was, I have 270 
miles on them. 

371
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:08,600
I'm like, OK, got it. 
We have very dramatic 

372
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:11,560
experiences and we'll, we will 
talk about that. 

373
00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:13,360
It's not that I hated it, just 
didn't, it didn't work. 

374
00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:15,800
But now I'm like, I maybe have 
to put this shoe on again 

375
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,640
because I'm wondering if that 
might have changed since that 

376
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,480
was a very different period for 
me training wise for sure. 

377
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,160
So. 
Yeah. 

378
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,760
You know, we're not the same 
athletes now that we were a year

379
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:32,360
ago, five years ago. 
And I can't remember which, you 

380
00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:34,800
know, footwear Rep, we were 
talking to you about this. 

381
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:39,320
But they said like when they do 
bring back like a nostalgic 

382
00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,320
shoe, like some shoe from 10 or 
15 years ago that everybody 

383
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,200
loved and keeps begging them to 
bring back and they bring it 

384
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,800
back. 
And then people are like, this 

385
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,960
kind of sucks. 
And it's because part of it is 

386
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,520
because one shoe technology has 
changed. 

387
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,640
So like, what felt great 15 
years ago isn't that great now. 

388
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,200
But two, you've changed as a 
runner. 

389
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:05,240
So the shoe you loved 15 years 
ago and maybe, you know, ran 

390
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,840
your first marathon and or 
whatever and your 5 KPR and in 

391
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,960
college, you're not that runner 
anymore. 

392
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,400
And maybe that shoe isn't the 
best one for you. 

393
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,440
So yeah, it's. 
I don't remember who what I but 

394
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,320
I remember Hoka got brought up 
because the Clifton is a is a 

395
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,480
clear story of the Clifton is a 
great example where they brought

396
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,440
the original 1 back and people 
got so mad because like this is 

397
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,600
not what I remember. 
This shoe stinks. 

398
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:32,560
Although so for that reason, 
maybe we need to be a little 

399
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,560
nicer on the Pegasus plus 
because they know they're trying

400
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,680
to put into Pegasus turbo bag 
and people really trashed. 

401
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,760
So I feel like we we try to be 
really fair. 

402
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:42,720
But yeah, things have really 
changed. 

403
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,440
You have to remember that over 
time. 

404
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,040
Yeah. 
Now this is a message for New 

405
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:49,880
Balance. 
We are not saying this about the

406
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:51,600
New Balance Beacon version 
three. 

407
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,280
You should still bring that one 
back. 

408
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,640
Should bring that back in its 
original glory, OK? 

409
00:21:55,800 --> 00:22:01,120
God, that's right, I still have 
one pair saved in a box from 

410
00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:05,520
just a special time when I need 
some beacon miles. 

411
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:08,960
Do you have Andrea credit? 
We're going to go off topic a 

412
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,240
bunch as we usually do, but she 
challenged me a while ago 

413
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:13,800
because I was like, oh, I, yeah,
don't. 

414
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,000
I can find anything on eBay. 
Give me a few minutes. 

415
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,240
I can find it on the Internet. 
I'll get you more pairs. 

416
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,600
And I arrogantly said that to 
her about the Beacon and came 

417
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:27,120
back totally empty handed like 
hours later going OK I can't, I 

418
00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:30,640
can't find them. 
Yes, it it was Matt's biggest 

419
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,680
disappointment, because he does 
pride himself on being an eBay 

420
00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:36,520
extraordinaire. 
Yeah. 

421
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:38,640
EBay, wherever, like, oh, I can 
go give you. 

422
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,440
Yeah, give me some time. 
I can find it. 

423
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,720
Nope. 
Yeah, it's soundly defeated. 

424
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,840
All right, so let's get back to 
our original topic as we have 

425
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,800
strayed, which is fine, but we 
don't have Nathan here to keep 

426
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,400
us on track. 
So yes, All right, so we've 

427
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,240
talked about the comfort filter 
and the preferred movement 

428
00:22:58,240 --> 00:22:59,880
pathway. 
I feel like we've done a good 

429
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:04,400
job of talking about how those 
things will influence how a 

430
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,920
person reacts to a given shoe. 
So what else do we need to talk 

431
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:13,720
about regarding why a shoe might
work well for you but not for 

432
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,200
me, or for Joe but not for 
Sally? 

433
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,680
Yeah, that's a great question. 
So what I what I want to get 

434
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,240
into is actually some of the bio
mechanics especially in relation

435
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,080
to shoes. 
So we were talking like top, top

436
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,080
down approach, right. 
So talking about the human being

437
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,400
and all the different patterns. 
You also have to talk about the 

438
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,080
shoe up the bottom up approach 
and talk about the actual shoe 

439
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,680
and the fact that there are 
things and there is good 

440
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,920
evidence suggests that there are
components of a shoe that will 

441
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,880
influence how it feels. 
And while that may vary, how 

442
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:44,560
people perceive that might vary 
a little bit. 

443
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,320
We also know that those 
components when shifted can also

444
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,280
cause changes and how people see
things. 

445
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,960
The closer the piece is a part 
of the shoe is to the foot, the 

446
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,240
more likely it is to influence 
the perception of how a shoe 

447
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:58,760
feels. 
I'm going to use cushioning as a

448
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:03,080
a very easy example of this, but
like stiffness, cushioning ride,

449
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,160
all this kind of stuff also goes
in the same thing. 

450
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,440
So insoles and This is why more 
companies are paying really 

451
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,520
close attention to how they 
design these it because that 

452
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,760
sits under the foot can actually
have one of the biggest 

453
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,800
influences on how a shoe feels, 
right, because that's one of the

454
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:19,400
first things that your foot will
pick up. 

455
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,880
That's what you you compresses 
under your foot the most. 

456
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,000
That's what you might feel first
as you get a little bit below 

457
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:27,840
that, that will also play a 
major part. 

458
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,320
So the material right under the 
bottom of the foot or the like 

459
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:32,880
the foot bed. 
I hope I'm saying that right, 

460
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,880
like right under the insole is 
another area that can really 

461
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:37,800
influence this. 
And the I'm going to use the SC 

462
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,360
trainer version three as an 
example. 

463
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,480
The plate is super close to the 
foot and even though that's a 

464
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,240
Max stack height shoe, it still 
feels really firm to me. 

465
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,720
Even though there's that soft 
fuel cell phone, it still feels 

466
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,120
really firm because I'm hitting 
that plate and going, Oh, this 

467
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,240
my sensory system is going Yep, 
that's firm. 

468
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,480
And then it keeps going go, Oh, 
wait, there's actually this 

469
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:56,960
bounce that happens after that. 
It's weird. 

470
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:02,160
So it's a it's a interesting 
show as you keep going down, 

471
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,560
right, things still impact that.
So things like like we just 

472
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:07,840
talked about actually with the 
1080 where Andrew and I had a 

473
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,120
very similar experience where 
the new version felt firmer than

474
00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:14,280
the previous one because they 
all they did, I think was we 

475
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,720
think was change the outsole 
pattern and put them on there, 

476
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,320
made it firmer. 
OK, so the farther away that 

477
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,240
from the foot you get, the less 
it may influence how you feel, 

478
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,960
but it's still makes a major 
impact on how you perceive the 

479
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,560
cushioning. 
Stiffness can also change it. 

480
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,120
So shoes that tend to be more 
stiff, people typically tend to 

481
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:35,440
experience them as being quote 
UN quote firmer. 

482
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,960
OK, that's very, very normal. 
Shoes that have a larger rocker,

483
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,280
especially larger heel bevel or 
or more or less for for rocker 

484
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,840
can also change how people 
perceive it, right? 

485
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,920
Somebody, somebody like myself, 
if there's less of a heel bevel,

486
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,640
I typically start perceiving it 
as being a little bit less 

487
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,680
cushion because I'm hitting the 
ground a little earlier. 

488
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:57,000
And I'm assuming that quick 
transition might that is a 

489
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,680
different type of input into my 
system than a really smooth heel

490
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,840
bevel that I might consider to 
be softer, right? 

491
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,920
So we generally use these terms 
like firm, soft, whatever, but 

492
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,640
these components under foot are 
all, all of them combined is 

493
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:17,000
will make a different impact on 
the foot and how you perceive it

494
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,760
and different combinations will 
also create different things, 

495
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,040
right? 
So you can have the same same 

496
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,120
shoe, same design, but change 
one little thing and that might 

497
00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:29,560
totally change the experience 
for one person and not for the 

498
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,440
other. 
But how the shoe is designed, 

499
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:36,160
its geometry, its components 
will influence people's 

500
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,400
perception of the shoe. 
I've got a good little anecdote 

501
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:45,120
about insole and how how you 
perceive the softness of a shoe.

502
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:47,160
And it actually is about cycling
shoes. 

503
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,600
So the road shoes and the 
mountain bike shoes that I use 

504
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,920
are the same brand, same model. 
So the Bond Traeger Triple X 

505
00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:00,880
shoes for those cyclists out 
there, both very stiff carbon 

506
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,040
sold shoes, like there's no flex
at all. 

507
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,800
So I had the road shoes first, 
got a pair of the mountain 

508
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,840
shoes, took the mountain shoes 
out on a first ride and I was 

509
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,000
like, what is wrong with these 
shoes? 

510
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:16,600
They felt bouncy and like bouncy
is never a word that you use to 

511
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:21,520
describe cycling shoes ever. 
So I and the whole ride I felt 

512
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,920
it and it was much more 
pronounced if I rode out of the 

513
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,440
saddle. 
So I got back and I'm like, what

514
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,760
is the deal here? 
You know, I'm seeing if like the

515
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,920
sole is cracked or something. 
It wasn't. 

516
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,560
So I took the insole from the 
Road 1 and put it in the 

517
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:40,200
mountain one and went back out 
for a ride and the bounciness 

518
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,200
went away. 
And really the only difference 

519
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,920
was the insole in the mountain 
shoe was a little bit thicker 

520
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,360
and it felt a little softer, 
like just pinching it. 

521
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:56,320
That was to me the only possible
difference in how those two 

522
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,840
shoes felt. 
So just the stupid little stock 

523
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,720
insole that came in there made 
that big of a difference in the 

524
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,920
shoe for me. 
So I actually didn't like that 

525
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,000
bouncy feeling. 
So I put a stiffer insole in 

526
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:11,840
there and that fixed the problem
for me. 

527
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,560
And those are the mountain bike 
shoes I use. 

528
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:19,200
But it really drove home just 
how much the insole can 

529
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,120
influence how a shoe feels. 
And that's why when we, when 

530
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:25,320
people ask us, hey, should I put
a new insole? 

531
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,240
And it's like, well, you can do 
that for sure. 

532
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:30,920
You just have to realize you're 
going to change how the shoe was

533
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,800
designed and, and might change 
the perception of ways you might

534
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,040
not be ready for. 
So try it. 

535
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,920
Never going to say no. 
We just can't predict how that's

536
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,480
going to respond. 
And if you actually may feel a 

537
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,280
change, you might not because a 
shoe special recycling shoes, 

538
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,040
please correct me if I'm wrong, 
right? 

539
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,600
They're a little bit less load 
bearing running shoes. 

540
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,440
Really you're compressing that 
whole thing. 

541
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,560
So the sum of all the parts is 
really, really important. 

542
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:57,960
That's how they were originally 
designed. 

543
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,400
Not saying, again, not saying 
don't change them out if that's 

544
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,080
something that's really 
important to you, but just be a 

545
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,160
little cautious, right? 
Yeah, absolutely. 

546
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,000
Cycling, the way you load 
cycling shoes is completely 

547
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,680
different than running shoes, 
which is also why you shouldn't 

548
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,680
use the same insoles for your 
running shoes and cycling shoes.

549
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:19,160
Even though many orthotists have
told my patients and clients to 

550
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:23,080
just go ahead and use their 
custom running insoles in their 

551
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:27,320
cycling shoes, which drives me 
absolutely bananas. 

552
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,000
But that's a different topic 
that we won't talk about today. 

553
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,440
That might be a whole different.
Podcast, yes, I won't complain 

554
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,680
about that here, but yeah, your 
insole absolutely changes your 

555
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,080
perception of the shoe. 
I would say in getting back to 

556
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,760
what you were talking about, 
just loading the shoe and how it

557
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:49,960
feels, runner weight is going to
influence how it feels. 

558
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:54,040
You know, if you're 100 lbs, how
much you load a shoe is going to

559
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,560
be significantly different than 
if you're 200 lbs or 250. 

560
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,680
So again, it depends. 
You've got to know the reviewer 

561
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,400
that you're reading. 
Or you know if your friend is 

562
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,000
telling you that a shoe feels 
one way, but you're you're 5 

563
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,440
feet tall and 100 lbs and your 
friend is 6/5 and 200 lbs. 

564
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,400
You guys are probably going to 
have very different perceptions 

565
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,440
of shoes. 
We're not trying to be like, 

566
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,320
don't listen to other people, 
but you got to listen. 

567
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,640
You have to learn what works for
you, which I know people don't 

568
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,960
want to hear and you got to 
figure out then, OK, based on 

569
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,120
this, what do I know is going to
probably work better for me 

570
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,960
because we, we are in the, the, 
the very privileged position to 

571
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,400
try a bunch of stuff. 
It doesn't mean all that stuff 

572
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,080
works for us. 
And I'm surprised that we stay 

573
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,320
as healthy as we well, it's 
helpful being a PT Being PT is 

574
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,000
dreaded keyboard self healthy 
and probably, you know, doing 

575
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,560
more than we should. 
But yeah, it's the goal is to 

576
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,640
help you learn what is going to 
work for us best for you. 

577
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,920
And that's a journey that I 
think we're all still working 

578
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,120
on. 
Absolutely, yeah. 

579
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,800
I mean, I can say without a 
doubt that being part of Dor and

580
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,920
testing shoes that I never in a 
million years would have even 

581
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,040
thought to try on in the store. 
I've learned so much about 

582
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,280
myself as a runner. 
And one, I would have never 

583
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,840
discovered my second favorite 
shoe, the Brooks Hyperion Max, 

584
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,120
if they hadn't sent it to me, 
you know? 

585
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,920
And so we do. 
We're incredibly lucky to get 

586
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:21,840
the chance to try all of these 
shoes and be surprised by what 

587
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,480
works for us and also be 
surprised by what really doesn't

588
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:26,960
work for us that we thought 
would. 

589
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,760
Be disappointed and horrified is
also another word I would like 

590
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,240
to use sometimes for the things 
that don't work. 

591
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:34,120
Going what? 
What? 

592
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,840
Yes. 
Anyway, sorry not to complain. 

593
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,320
So let's jump into a couple 
shoes that we very much had 

594
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,320
different opinions on. 
And the first one that we're 

595
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,960
gonna do is the Puma. 
Am I gonna say this right? 

596
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,120
The the mag Max is saying that 
right? 

597
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,960
Yeah, sounds like I'm saying I 
kept saying Mad Max repeatedly. 

598
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,160
Yeah, this would probably been a
good shoe for them to sponsor 

599
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,160
that movie with. 
That's dumb. 

600
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,560
I'm sorry. 
No, that's what I think every 

601
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:00,480
time I. 
See. 

602
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,000
Yeah, maybe like BJ, please cut 
that out. 

603
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,480
Maybe it was dumb. 
How off topic. 

604
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,120
How is this not plated? 
This is like a super stiff. 

605
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,520
I know. 
Yeah, yeah, it's very stiff, but

606
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:13,480
no plate. 
They said there's no plate in 

607
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,160
it, so yeah. 
So no plate apparently, but it 

608
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,680
is the tallest shoe that Puma 
has put out. 

609
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,840
We were very lucky to get each 
get a pair to put some miles on 

610
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,080
and we had very different 
perceptions of it where I 

611
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:26,520
thought it was still a good 
shoe. 

612
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:28,960
I think I disagreed a little bit
with her comment that, hey, this

613
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,000
will be a great shoe for 
beginners because personally 

614
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,280
feel like the taller you get, 
you actually need to know 

615
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,440
running and this is a pretty 
crazy tool. 

616
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,640
You need to just start with a 
basic shoe first before you go 

617
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,720
minimalist or maximalist. 
But that's what they're saying. 

618
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,480
And we really again, had 
different opinions on the ride. 

619
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,200
I think it was a little similar,
but ride was really different. 

620
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,920
So, Andrew, why don't you start 
of how did you perceive the ride

621
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,960
of the Magmax? 
Mad Max, yes, something now they

622
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,920
will sponsor because we have 
suggested, you know, multi 

623
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,920
$1,000,000 partnership. 
I think the biggest difference I

624
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,520
looked back and read our reviews
is you found the heel clunky and

625
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,560
I did not, which is not typical 
for us. 

626
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,080
So, you know, often because I 
land at my mid foot, if a shoe 

627
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,520
has too high of a drop, I feel 
like the heel gets in the way 

628
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,200
and it, it feels like it's 
trying to make me heel strike, 

629
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,480
which is incredibly 
uncomfortable for me. 

630
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,800
This shoe has a 8mm drop or a 
six man. 

631
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,920
Do you remember? 
Looking it up right now, I think

632
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,680
I apologize on it is 8. 
You're right, 47 millimeters in 

633
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,560
heel, 39 to 4 foot, so super 
tall off the ground. 

634
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:42,200
So this shoe doesn't have a huge
heel bevel, but it's enough that

635
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,080
it gets out of the way when I 
land at my midfoot. 

636
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,160
It's got a really wide base, 
which I think is part of why I 

637
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,120
like it. 
And so I land basically here and

638
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,960
that's super comfortable for me.
Another thing that I really like

639
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,280
about the shoe is just the fit 
is so comfortable. 

640
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,120
Like I put it on and it just 
doesn't feel like the upper is 

641
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,920
there, which again, is someone 
who is just kind of sensitive to

642
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,360
anything bothering my foot. 
I like that. 

643
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:15,400
I just don't notice it. 
So it works well with midfoot 

644
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,360
landings. 
I like the level of cushion that

645
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,840
it has. 
It's so tall, you definitely 

646
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,800
don't feel the ground and it's 
got just enough softness that 

647
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,360
like when your legs are really 
tired, it's definitely, you 

648
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,239
know, enough cushion to be 
protective, but it's not 

649
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:38,239
marshmallow soft, which I hate. 
The four foot rocker isn't 

650
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,600
crazy. 
You know there is one, but it 

651
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,320
doesn't start too early and it 
just has a nice rolling feel. 

652
00:34:44,679 --> 00:34:49,480
So unlike a lot of these Max 
stack height shoes that just 

653
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:55,719
really only feel good for like 
easy, easy recovery paces, I can

654
00:34:55,719 --> 00:35:00,360
run like you know, slightly 
faster than easy pace in it, 

655
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,360
which is nice. 
It just makes it a more 

656
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,920
versatile shoe compared to for 
example, the SC trainer version 

657
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:11,440
one, which I really liked. 
But I couldn't run anything 

658
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,480
faster than like recovery pace 
in it because it was just heavy 

659
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,720
and clunky. 
And if you're if I tried to pick

660
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:22,040
up the pace, I almost felt like 
I was like weight lifting with a

661
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,880
shoe on my foot. 
So it was like 11 oz or 

662
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:26,880
something like that, so. 
Yeah, yeah. 

663
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:31,200
And because of the upper, it 
almost felt like the weight of 

664
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,320
the the sole kind of hung down 
and like pulled on the dorsum of

665
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:39,480
my foot and that felt kind of 
weird too, running faster. 

666
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:44,520
But the Magmax I've really, I'm 
still during a lot of easy runs 

667
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:48,000
in it. 
It's super comfortable and never

668
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,520
have noticed the heel even when 
I'm just, you know, jogging 

669
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,840
along tired legs. 
So yeah, it's a great shoe. 

670
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,640
I think I'll get a lot of miles 
on it, but Matt does not feel 

671
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,440
that way. 
Yes, I had a different 

672
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,120
experience. 
I was I, I'd forgotten that you 

673
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,640
really enjoyed the upper because
the upper took a second to break

674
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,640
in because I felt like it was 
almost short because the volume 

675
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,400
was really low and kind of 
pushing on my toes. 

676
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,560
That did go away, but it 
definitely influenced a little 

677
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,400
bit of my initial field going 
out kind of like what's going on

678
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,160
with this that broke in that was
that was fine. 

679
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:22,080
What did not break in as much 
was the fact that the heel, 

680
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,440
again, for me, there's a lot of 
lateral flare in this. 

681
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,280
And so I tend to land pretty far
lateral and the more lateral 

682
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,240
flare it is, the more it kind of
pitches me in words and that 

683
00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:31,480
kind of feels a little 
aggressive. 

684
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,600
But there's also quite a bit of 
posterior flare, meaning the 

685
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,000
heat, the, the foam, even though
there is a bevel, it does go 

686
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,560
back quite a bit. 
So I felt like every time I 

687
00:36:40,720 --> 00:36:44,640
landed in my posterior lateral 
back, like back outside piece, I

688
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,000
would get pitched forwards. 
And I found, and I think it was 

689
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,760
Nathan who I posted a video and 
goes, are you landing midfoot? 

690
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:52,560
I'm like, yeah, because it's the
only way to make this 

691
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,760
comfortable. 
So when I shifted a little bit 

692
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,400
farther forward, that did make 
the shoe roll a little better. 

693
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,120
But now it's in my normal spot. 
I could actually feel my 

694
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,320
anterior tibialis. 
So the muscle in the front of my

695
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,560
in front of the shin that helps 
control dorsiflexion. 

696
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,680
So when you slap a lot or like 
have a really clunky shoe that 

697
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,280
can get a little overworked, I 
felt like getting worked. 

698
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,800
I was pretty sore the first time
I I ran this, which is weird 

699
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,400
because it has a bevel. 
There is one, it's just kind of 

700
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:21,560
not the geometry of this didn't 
make that kind of ABS smooth for

701
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,000
me. 
So I found the heel clunky. 

702
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,040
The midfoot forefoot was totally
fine. 

703
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,400
I think the roll for once I 
broke the upper in a little bit.

704
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,520
The roll was really good. 
I found it to be really nicely 

705
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,800
fairly stable neutral in my 
opinion, because the foam wasn't

706
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,920
mushy soft, but it definitely 
felt firmer that I was 

707
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:37,760
expecting. 
Even there's a ton of foam 

708
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,480
because of just the placement 
and where what's called my 

709
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,400
initial contactor when I hit the
ground. 

710
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,640
I was getting so much input from
that to go, Oh, this feels 

711
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,360
firmer. 
So that's AI think not only does

712
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,360
foot strike for this play into 
it, but also a little bit of 

713
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,240
fit, but also exactly where 
we're landing and how not just 

714
00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:59,920
how we land, but where as what 
part of the foot you're not 

715
00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:01,680
going to hit. 
I think that posterior lateral 

716
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,360
like section and you're not 
gonna deal with the poster heel 

717
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,520
flare or that lateral flare as 
much back there. 

718
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:11,400
So you kind of get ahead of it. 
So I think that's my guess and 

719
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,520
you correct if you think I'm 
wrong, why we had such big 

720
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:16,360
differences in our perception of
it. 

721
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,120
Right. 
No, I would agree with that. 

722
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:22,600
And this is interesting because 
there's another shoe that also 

723
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:27,760
has a significant posterior 
flare, the topo Spectre 2, that 

724
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,120
both of us really didn't like 
we're. 

725
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,920
Exactly the same one. 
Which is bizarre considering how

726
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,520
differently we run. 
But yeah, that shoe gave me knee

727
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:43,400
pain because I felt like I had 
to run in a more Planarflex 

728
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:47,520
position just to like be 
comfortable with the landing 

729
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,640
pattern of that shoe. 
So and again. 

730
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,360
Not bad shoes, just we had very,
you know, different perceptions.

731
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,640
So, yeah. 
All right, let's go. 

732
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,200
I really want to hear this. 
So we also had because I 

733
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,560
actually, I expected not to like
this shoe and I thought Andrew 

734
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:11,120
was going to like it, but the 
Balos was the one that I I 

735
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,120
thought was going to be too 
unstable for me. 

736
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,280
It's a please correct me if I'm 
wrong. 

737
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:17,920
There's a lot more Peeba in the 
midsole. 

738
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,200
I don't remember if it's full. 
It's not 4%. 

739
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,160
It's it's still a mix, right? 
It's like fresh foam. 

740
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,720
Yeah, it's a blend. 
Yeah, it's a blended midsole, 

741
00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:27,440
but I actually really like this 
shoe. 

742
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:31,160
I also like it because my wife 
was trying to push a pace doing 

743
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:32,400
one run and I didn't think I 
could do it. 

744
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,200
And I managed to hang out, 
although I was quite out of 

745
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,240
breath trying to use this for 
faster runs. 

746
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:39,000
I would not suggest that. 
But Andrea, why don't you go 

747
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,840
first again and then we'll 
switch as to why this didn't 

748
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:43,160
work as well for you or you 
didn't. 

749
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:47,880
It didn't perceive it as good. 
So I think the extreme rocker 

750
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,440
geometry really was just too 
much for me. 

751
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:55,760
So when you've got so much heel 
bevel and such an early 4 foot 

752
00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:00,240
rocker, it really doesn't give 
me a lot of place to land. 

753
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,960
And then to actually be in 
stance phase before the four 

754
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:08,360
foot rocker pitches me forward. 
So I just felt like I 

755
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,760
immediately landed and then 
boom, I was pushing off. 

756
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:16,080
And because of how thick the 
midsole is and how soft it is, 

757
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,640
this isn't really a shoe 
designed well. 

758
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,480
Maybe it's. 
They say that you can run fast 

759
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,320
in it, but I couldn't run fast 
in it. 

760
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:28,560
I can't do an easy run in a shoe
that barely lets me have my foot

761
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,800
on the ground. 
So it was just unbelievably 

762
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:37,400
uncomfortable. 
I I did, you know, the minimum 

763
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,560
number of miles in it to write 
the review and then I was done 

764
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:44,600
because I just, I did not enjoy 
running in it at all. 

765
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,160
So I had the opposite experience
where I actually really enjoyed 

766
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,440
it, but because we had no stuff 
on our plate, I haven't gotten 

767
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:54,440
to as many miles as I wanted. 
But I actually really loved that

768
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,520
rocker. 
So that the heel bevel, like 

769
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,360
seeing that map, of course I was
going to like this. 

770
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,360
It's just just a massive heel 
bevel. 

771
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,800
It worked really, really well 
for me and I feel like I just 

772
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,080
kind of was gliding over the 
ground. 

773
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,240
The forefoot wasn't, it was 
fairly, fairly average. 

774
00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:12,960
I didn't think it was really. 
It was great or not great. 

775
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,160
I did not feel like I could run 
faster than shoe most because it

776
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,040
was soft enough that I just 
couldn't power through quick 

777
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:20,200
enough. 
It didn't respond quick enough, 

778
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:24,000
but just for me, the heel bevel 
was so smooth and made the shoe 

779
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,480
roll really, really nicely. 
And I'd like a Rockford ride 

780
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,360
when it's appropriate. 
So that bevel again really 

781
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,520
really made a difference for me 
where I enjoy it and although 

782
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,160
would again only use it for 
recovery runs. 

783
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,640
What was weird though is it 
actually I was able to do long 

784
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:41,680
runs in it, which I didn't. 
I thought it was going to be too

785
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,440
soft for me to do that. 
But in some way I think that 

786
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:47,840
quick roll forward actually 
worked really well for me, which

787
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,480
is where softness isn't the only
factor that can make something 

788
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:52,440
stable. 
I would not call this issue 

789
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:56,080
stable. 
It was just enough to allow me 

790
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:57,880
to get through it, but not a not
a stable shoe. 

791
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,040
But there are many factors to 
play into this, so I actually 

792
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,640
really, really enjoyed it a lot 
more than I thought I would. 

793
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,800
Yeah, and and you know, I 
actually when I received the 

794
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,280
shoe, I was like, oh, I'm not 
going to like this because of 

795
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:13,840
how rocker it is, because any 
shoe that has a really early 

796
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:18,560
forfeit rocker plus a big heel 
bevel, I tend to not like 

797
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,840
because same thing. 
It's just I have nowhere to 

798
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,680
actually be in stance phase. 
I'm landing and immediately 

799
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,640
pushing off. 
I ran 12 miles in that shoe 

800
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:29,720
today. 
So wait, you said that something

801
00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:31,920
that has this really massive 
heel bevel. 

802
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:33,640
So explains. 
So now we got to go into the 

803
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:35,800
rebellion flash too, which is 
that you were talking about. 

804
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,720
That was like, I didn't really 
like it, but Andrea loves it. 

805
00:42:39,720 --> 00:42:41,800
You just did 12. 
You said did you 12 in it this 

806
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:42,600
morning? 
Yep. 

807
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:44,480
Oh, OK. 
He really likes it. 

808
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:46,480
Yeah. 
So I'm gonna I'm gonna go first 

809
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,320
this time, but I'm gonna 
challenge energy going. 

810
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,760
Wait, I thought you said you 
don't like it like a massive 

811
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:52,040
heel bubble. 
Hey don't. 

812
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,120
Don't you love the Rebellion Pro
2 as well? 

813
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:58,960
Yes, but. 
The difference between the 

814
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,120
bailos. 
All right, look at this shoe and

815
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:07,400
tell me how many centimeters 
long the patches that's actually

816
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:11,960
flat if you land at your 
midfoot, I would say like 4 

817
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:16,800
centimeters like here, right? 
So that doesn't give me a lot of

818
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:21,480
room to work. 
Or is this shoe is actually 

819
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:26,520
designed for midfoot striking? 
Look at all of that laying once 

820
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,800
you land here to actually 
progress. 

821
00:43:31,240 --> 00:43:35,800
Like I think the Mizuno R&D 
people are geniuses for how they

822
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,600
design the shoe because this 
shoe feels the most natural to 

823
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:43,960
me for midfoot striking. 
It just feels like it meets my 

824
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,880
foot where it is and I can just 
run. 

825
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,680
It makes it easier, but it's not
not fighting it at all. 

826
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,440
So I will admit, as usual, 
Andrew is probably right. 

827
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:59,480
There is a caveat to this that I
went with my normal size and one

828
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:01,800
of the things that greatly 
influenced my perception of this

829
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,720
shoe is the fact that it fit a 
half size short really or like 

830
00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:09,200
close to because my I was 
constantly feeling like my toes 

831
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,600
were ramming up against the end 
of the shoe, which made the shoe

832
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,360
feel inherently a little firmer 
than I think it really, really 

833
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,600
was. 
Also not the midfoot is quite 

834
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:20,320
narrow. 
So I am somebody that's very 

835
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,960
sensitive to that. 
And so I was even with the 

836
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,640
design of the plate, which kind 
of comes up almost in AI don't 

837
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,480
want to call it post, but kind 
of close where it's just sitting

838
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,080
is something you into. 
I thought that was going to work

839
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,520
better, but it didn't. 
So the fact that not quite as 

840
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:35,800
stable for me in the mid foot 
kind of plus a shorter fit. 

841
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,880
I just found like it for 
whatever reason felt firmer than

842
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,120
I was expecting. 
Now the Rebellion Pro series has

843
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:44,680
not had that where I definitely 
get that bounce out of it. 

844
00:44:44,720 --> 00:44:46,920
The Flash 2 was a shoe that like
I thought was going to work 

845
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:50,400
better for me, but maybe I'll 
just have to try that half size 

846
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:51,960
up. 
But even then I don't know about

847
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:53,880
that mid foot. 
So how's that compared to what 

848
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:57,320
you felt? 
All right, And so Mizuno didn't 

849
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:01,760
originally send me my regular 
size and it felt so short that I

850
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,320
emailed them and said, look, I'm
not going to be able to test the

851
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,520
shoe unless I can go half size 
up. 

852
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:11,200
So I sent the 9 1/2 back. 
They sent me a 10 and it fits. 

853
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,040
This is a 10. 
It fits like a nine and a half 

854
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,520
does like I've just got a normal
amount of, you know, room for my

855
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:18,800
big toe to the front of the 
shoe. 

856
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:24,120
It doesn't fit big, but I love 
this shoe as evidenced by the 

857
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:30,520
270 25 miles that are on it and 
it still feels amazing after 275

858
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:34,720
miles like the foam feels the 
same as it did when I got it. 

859
00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:41,520
You can see where I've worn the 
outsole a little bit and because

860
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,400
of the geometry, it actually 
lets me land a little further 

861
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,880
back, which I think makes it a 
little more stable for me. 

862
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,600
But I mean, you can see this 
outsole is in great shape. 

863
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:57,560
There's no area where it's like 
completely worn down. 

864
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,000
I haven't damaged the exposed 
plate. 

865
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,440
I actually don't really get rock
stuck in here. 

866
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,800
I think it's because it's 
narrower than a lot of shoes 

867
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,240
with a cut out. 
You can see the upper. 

868
00:46:07,240 --> 00:46:10,200
It looks pretty gross because 
it's rained so much here. 

869
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,600
I've ruined the upper. 
This shoe was white. 

870
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:18,880
It is not white anymore, but I, 
I, I think the longest run I've 

871
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:23,680
done in it is like 16 or 18. 
But these days I'm doing like 12

872
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:27,240
to 15 mile long runs and I 
usually choose it unless I've 

873
00:46:27,240 --> 00:46:31,000
got a shoe that I'm testing that
I need to do a long run in. 

874
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:34,840
The fit is great. 
There are like no pressure 

875
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:36,320
points. 
There's nothing where I'm 

876
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,400
running and I'm like, oh, this 
is uncomfortable. 

877
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:44,480
It's driving me nuts and I 
mainly use it for like faster 

878
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,120
easy runs. 
Like my long runs now are like 

879
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,800
45 seconds faster than marathon 
pace. 

880
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:54,480
Occasionally I'll use it for 
like if I have 10K or half 

881
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:58,800
marathon pace intervals, but for
me it just doesn't feel quite 

882
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,080
aggressive enough for that. 
And you know, it's going to feel

883
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,320
very different depending on your
mechanics. 

884
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:08,160
But for me, when I run faster in
it, it just feels like I don't 

885
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,080
get the benefit of the rocker as
much. 

886
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:14,520
It feels like it's more of a 
Pogo than like I land and it 

887
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,520
springs up rather than landing 
and rolling forward. 

888
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:21,640
And that's probably because when
I run faster, I land further 

889
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:26,760
forward of the severe bevel and 
I'm not getting that propulsion 

890
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:30,200
that I would running a little 
slower, yes. 

891
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,520
Whereas based for me, I actually
found like I had a hard time 

892
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,080
doing easy runs of any kind this
year and it worked better as a 

893
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,440
workout shoe, partially because 
the fit kind of reminded me of 

894
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,480
like those narrow racing flats, 
but because I'm more of a heel 

895
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,040
striker. 
And if you look where I don't 

896
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,840
know if people on YouTube can 
see this, but my wear is right 

897
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:52,760
where that apex is of the of 
that kind of what do we call 

898
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:54,960
that, that aggressive heel bevel
there. 

899
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,880
So and a lot my experience has 
been a lot of the Mizuno shoes 

900
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:01,200
when you hit that thing that 
really like snaps you forward 

901
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:04,240
really, really quickly. 
So I found it a lot better based

902
00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:07,280
on kind of where I was floating 
the shoe to be better for faster

903
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,720
stuff than anything easy. 
And the the fit definitely 

904
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:12,800
emphasize that as well. 
Yeah. 

905
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:17,360
Well, you should get a half size
up and then we can revisit this.

906
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,080
Got it. 
Yeah, there's a couple shoes 

907
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,560
this year that I've been like, I
should have, should have been 

908
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:24,680
proactive and asked for a house 
size up instead of just dealing 

909
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:27,760
with it and like callousing my 
feet. 

910
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:30,600
Right. 
Well, I mean, shoe companies 

911
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:34,120
want us to give like our best 
opinion of something. 

912
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:37,200
And if, like, the thing that 
bothers us the most is that the 

913
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:41,760
fit is bad, then that's not 
really a good way of assessing a

914
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,360
shoe. 
Is it though, like shouldn't the

915
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:46,360
shouldn't stuff fit fairly 
consistently? 

916
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:49,280
This has been my big big. 
Somebody called me out on social

917
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:50,320
media. 
I think it was on YouTube 

918
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,760
because I gave a shoe a lower 
grade because it didn't fit true

919
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:55,880
to size. 
And like, I think having to go 

920
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,880
and it's, you know, it's fair 
that we tell people just make 

921
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:00,800
sure you've got the right fit. 
Don't be afraid to go up a half 

922
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,320
size. 
But yes, it's kind of annoying I

923
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:06,880
think. 
Didn't you guys just do a 

924
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,920
episode about how true to size 
doesn't mean anything? 

925
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:17,800
Yeah, I did. 
I think that if a company knows 

926
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:21,600
that their shoe, like everybody 
who buys it has to go up a half 

927
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:24,920
size, they need to put that on 
their website. 

928
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,200
You know, running warehouse 
needs to put it on their 

929
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,160
website. 
Running stores need to have that

930
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:34,600
information like hey, the shoe 
fits small, go up a half size. 

931
00:49:35,240 --> 00:49:40,840
Now if they know that, why they 
can't just change the label on 

932
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,600
all of the shoes then? 
Or label them correctly the 

933
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:46,360
first time. 
That's bad. 

934
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:51,400
You know. 
I think my my original annoyance

935
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,960
came from a shoe actually bought
myself so and there was a very 

936
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,920
limited call on me. 
It was the Salomon Phantasm's 

937
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:02,280
lab or the S Lab Phantasm 2, 
which was their first shoe, 

938
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,440
super shoe. 
And since we didn't have a 

939
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:06,640
strong contact with Salomon, 
they were never going to share 

940
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,560
it with us. 
And so I was really curious. 

941
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,240
I wanted to test it. 
My wife was sponsored by Salomon

942
00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:13,400
at that time, and they didn't 
even have enough for her. 

943
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:17,080
And so I saw a size 10 come up 
and I was like, I really want 

944
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:18,960
this. 
I'm really curious to test this.

945
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:20,160
I'm going to see what Salomon is
doing. 

946
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:24,120
So I blew what was it like 
almost $300.00 over that because

947
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:28,160
the shoe was 275 plus California
tax at the time, which I love 

948
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:33,160
living in Oregon now there's no 
sales tax and get the shoe and 

949
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:37,320
it's so clearly 1/2 size up that
it really changed how I 

950
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:40,120
perceived the shoe and had like 
couldn't lock it down right and 

951
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:42,240
it was really bothering me. 
That's the shoe somebody called 

952
00:50:42,240 --> 00:50:45,840
me out on when I gave a lower 
grade, but especially and when I

953
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,720
went to go look in me like there
was all got everything was sold 

954
00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:50,400
out like there was no night and 
a half. 

955
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,240
I just would had to return the 
shoe, which they didn't. 

956
00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:53,800
I don't think they were 
accepting returns. 

957
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,600
I would you store credit. 
So it's like that stinks. 

958
00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:00,760
So yeah, you are right. 
I just guess it's annoying when 

959
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:04,400
you get something like I have to
go put extra effort in. 

960
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:05,760
So you're right. 
So I think it's it's a 

961
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,120
responsibility companies to kind
of get to know that and go, all 

962
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,880
right, this does 361 does that 
fairly well. 

963
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,120
They're usually pretty clear 
going, you know, thought that 

964
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:18,760
we'd get to test a lot of stuff 
from them 361 but that they 

965
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:20,960
usually they're pretty open, 
like, Hey, this fits 1/2 size 

966
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:22,040
short. 
You should adjust for that. 

967
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,520
So I think, but maybe that's our
job, right? 

968
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:26,920
It's to also go, Hey, heads up, 
we got this shoe. 

969
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:28,840
Think about 1/2 size down or 
half size up. 

970
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:30,720
So hopefully we can save you 
some of that. 

971
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:35,400
Yeah, and I do feel like in the 
past couple of years, shoe 

972
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:38,400
companies and running shoe 
stores are doing better with 

973
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:42,040
return policies. 
Like you have two weeks to 

974
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:45,120
return it to the store or 
whatever because shoes are 

975
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,360
expensive, The price isn't going
down. 

976
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:52,160
And it would really stink to buy
a shoe and then, you know, take 

977
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:55,320
it on your first run and 
discover that you've got bruised

978
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:58,400
toenails and now you're never 
going to run in this $200 shoe 

979
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,520
that you just bought. 
That's why I'd like, you know, 

980
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:04,360
running, if you have access to 
local running stores, that's 

981
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,280
that's the best thing because 
you can go in, try them in 

982
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:08,400
person. 
That's going to be the easiest. 

983
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:11,160
If you don't have access to, 
that's why we do like running 

984
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:12,520
warehouse. 
We do work with them a little 

985
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:14,760
bit, right. 
So there's some a little bit of 

986
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:18,080
bias here obviously, but they do
have a pretty good return 

987
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:20,680
exchange policy that I would 
encourage you to utilize that 

988
00:52:21,240 --> 00:52:25,480
They know that I like almost 
abused before Doctors of Running

989
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:28,840
existed because I was running 
100 miles a week and I was like 

990
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:30,960
I didn't like that shoe as much 
as I wanted even though I just 

991
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:34,440
got 300 miles in like 3 weeks. 
I'll see if it exchanged that. 

992
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:36,880
They know that I got made fun of
for that. 

993
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:40,680
So they've been nice about it. 
But one last shoe I want to talk

994
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:43,440
about because I I kind of 
followed up on the hype. 

995
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:45,680
I think you gave this shoe away,
or do you have it? 

996
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,080
I thought we were going. 
I gave it away. 

997
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:53,240
But yes, let's talk about it and
then we'll talk about your 

998
00:52:53,240 --> 00:52:55,880
follow up to our. 
Lives finally admit yeah that I 

999
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,520
was wrong. 
So the New Balance, the rebel V4

1000
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:01,600
was a very, very popular shoe. 
I I definitely fell into that 

1001
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,120
and I wasn't expecting to like 
this shoe because the previous 

1002
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,480
version was not stable, but they
really updated this with again 

1003
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:10,160
now they've got their peeba Eva 
blend, which by the way, I 

1004
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:14,680
understand is like 20% PBA and 
80% Eva somebody correct me on 

1005
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:16,360
that. 
But what worked really well for 

1006
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:19,480
me is the sole is so wide. 
So this is not a a stability 

1007
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:23,000
shoe, but a wider sole tends to 
work a little bit better for me,

1008
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:27,000
especially if it did a pretty 
nice bevel poster, lateral 

1009
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:28,480
bevel. 
So that transition was nice. 

1010
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:32,960
Midfoot felt stable to me 
because it was on the wider end 

1011
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:35,200
and it's just got enough 
cushioning that I was able to 

1012
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:37,200
use it for long runs, which I 
didn't expect. 

1013
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:39,600
So having something stable 
enough without being a stability

1014
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:43,000
shoe and just cushion enough. 
I really like lighter weight 

1015
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:44,200
shoes. 
So I love this thing. 

1016
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:47,640
Immediately got a ton of miles 
on it, having got to get as many

1017
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:50,440
as I have wanted right now, but 
it was something I really 

1018
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,880
enjoyed. 
So Andrea, why did you not enjoy

1019
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:54,600
it? 
So if you can hold up the 

1020
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:59,800
outsole, Yeah. 
So I land basically right at the

1021
00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:02,840
back of that 4 foot rubber 
piece. 

1022
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:06,680
Yeah. 
So because of where I land and 

1023
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:10,400
because there's no rubber behind
it, I felt like I would land and

1024
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:13,400
I actually rocked backwards onto
my heel. 

1025
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:20,280
And if you now hold the shoe, 
like side profile flat, put it 

1026
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:22,000
flat, like as if you were 
running. 

1027
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,480
Thank you, Matt. 
You're a very good demonstrator.

1028
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:27,360
It's actually. 
The people on on on the podcast 

1029
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:29,880
that can actually see this, go 
go see this on YouTube. 

1030
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:33,520
All right, so midfoot strikers 
land with a pretty flat foot. 

1031
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:37,960
So if you put that shoe with the
midfoot flat, you can see how it

1032
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:42,680
actually would make you rock 
backwards landing where I land. 

1033
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:44,440
And that's exactly what 
happened. 

1034
00:54:44,720 --> 00:54:47,800
And it is literally the only 
shoe that has ever made my 

1035
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:52,800
Achilles hurt ever. 
And it was just, I hated the 

1036
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:55,600
feeling of like that little 
rocking back moment and I 

1037
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:58,360
definitely didn't like having a 
sore Achilles afterwards. 

1038
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:02,320
So I think if they just extended
their outsole rubber all the 

1039
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,880
way, I would love that shoe. 
But they didn't. 

1040
00:55:06,240 --> 00:55:08,760
So I gave it to my mom and she 
loves it. 

1041
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:11,200
It's. 
A mom shoe? 

1042
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:15,280
Yeah. 
That's funny, my mom isn't a 

1043
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:19,160
typical mom. 
She's She also runs at 67, so. 

1044
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:22,480
So the again, so this is that 
we, and we've talked about this 

1045
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:26,040
where you know how while the 
outsole is farther away from the

1046
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:29,000
foot, it can still definitely 
influence the perception of 

1047
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:30,320
ride. 
A lot of companies have been 

1048
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:33,960
doing these kind of split 
outsole designs, I'm assuming to

1049
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:36,920
save weight, which can make them
feel smoother. 

1050
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:39,560
It's also been what I one of the
reasons I've I've been afraid to

1051
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:41,760
get more miles. 
I see I'm about ready to pull 

1052
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:44,360
off that little piece in the 
back because I typically scuff 

1053
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:46,600
my heel a little bit, which is 
why a longer bevel works. 

1054
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,040
That's also why I RIP heels off.
So when people have that split 

1055
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:52,560
stuff, I'm like, oh, this is not
going to last. 

1056
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,640
It just feels good, but it just 
won't feel good for very long 

1057
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:59,480
when I take it off. 
So yeah, so definitely some 

1058
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:02,120
variations in how things feel. 
And so now we're going to get to

1059
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:04,480
the final part where I admit 
that Andrew was right. 

1060
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:07,240
And so let's talk about socket 
and door from Pro, which I 

1061
00:56:07,240 --> 00:56:10,720
totally forgot to grab earlier, 
but I think based on your look 

1062
00:56:10,720 --> 00:56:13,240
earlier, you have ready to go 
just to emphasize that you were 

1063
00:56:13,240 --> 00:56:14,080
right. 
Yes. 

1064
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,800
So when we did our episode, 
which was, I don't know, a 

1065
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:21,120
couple months ago, Matt and I 
basically found this shoe useful

1066
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:24,400
for different things. 
I really only like running fast 

1067
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:29,320
in it like 5K pace or faster. 
And Matt really only liked 

1068
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:32,640
running like marathon, half 
marathon pace in it, right? 

1069
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:34,920
Not, not even. 
It was like marathon and easy 

1070
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:37,800
pace in it, Yeah. 
And he's like, how can you run 

1071
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:39,760
fast in that, you know, blah, 
blah, blah. 

1072
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:44,280
But then then Matt did a track 
workout and. 

1073
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:47,240
Yeah, so then I, I when I 
actually, and maybe the fact 

1074
00:56:47,240 --> 00:56:50,120
that wasn't running fast enough 
until I, my wife and I actually 

1075
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,400
got in shape enough to do some 
truly fast track stuff. 

1076
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:56,080
I was cranking 440 pace with a 
stroller in those. 

1077
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:58,040
It was very hard to control and 
I couldn't maintain it. 

1078
00:56:58,040 --> 00:56:59,960
But then I was like, oh, Andrew 
is right. 

1079
00:56:59,960 --> 00:57:02,240
Like now I get this. 
The more aggressive 4 foot 

1080
00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:05,000
rocker, the plate being a little
stiffer up front. 

1081
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:08,880
I for sure get what she means 
when she's talking about this. 

1082
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:12,200
Whereas when I'm not running as 
fast, I and I kind of sit on 

1083
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:14,680
that that softer heel a little 
bit then I'm like, oh, this is a

1084
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:18,280
little better for easier paces 
and just kind of rolling off the

1085
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:21,120
forefoot. 
So again, pace can also make a 

1086
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:25,040
huge pace and your capabilities 
at the moment can definitely 

1087
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,720
make a major influence on what 
you perceive. 

1088
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:32,800
Now, I will say that I still 
think we're both right in a way,

1089
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,840
but where I've really struggled 
to get that shoe to move because

1090
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:40,440
I think it's really either fast 
or not is doing like mid range 

1091
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:42,480
paces. 
Like for me, half marathon pace 

1092
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,600
is really that like tempo or 
middle kind of pace. 

1093
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:50,800
I really struggle to get that 
shoe to stay there. 

1094
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:55,440
So either I slow down to that 
kind of easier marathon easy 

1095
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:58,800
pace, or if I speed up a lot, 
then I'm more comfortable with 

1096
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,200
that mid range. 
I really struggle with that 

1097
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:03,000
shoe. 
It's like if I had to pick, do 

1098
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,320
pick a shoe for half marathon, 
that would literally be the last

1099
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:08,320
thing I would consider. 
But if I was doing a marathon 

1100
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:10,360
tomorrow, that'd probably be on 
my top thing to go. 

1101
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:11,800
I need to survive and I know 
this. 

1102
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:15,280
I can rely on this SO. 
That I would actually agree with

1103
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:19,320
that like I enjoyed it a lot for
five KS earlier in the in the 

1104
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:23,440
year and I was training for a 7 
Miller so I tested it on some 

1105
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:27,400
like 10K pace workouts. 
I was like, this just doesn't 

1106
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:32,520
feel as assistive as it does at 
faster paces. 

1107
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:36,800
So I decided to go with the on 
Cloud Boom E3, which felt much 

1108
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:39,240
better. 
So yeah, it's interesting how, 

1109
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:44,640
you know, various shoes, they'll
feel great at particular paces, 

1110
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:47,440
but just like a totally 
different shoe as soon as you 

1111
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:51,120
slow down or speed up. 
And for different people that 

1112
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:53,360
will also respond differently, 
you might feel the same, let's 

1113
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:56,360
say an easy pace. 
But then depending on how, and 

1114
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:59,320
this is fun research to show 
that how people tend to increase

1115
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:01,200
their speed can have some 
variability, right? 

1116
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:04,240
Certain people use mechanics 
from 1 joint or certain move 

1117
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:08,200
pattern of what you use. 
If it's different is going to 

1118
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:10,960
really change the perception of 
how a shoe works for you or even

1119
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:14,360
how it feels under foot. 
But then I realized Andrew was 

1120
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:15,760
right. 
So are so are we. 

1121
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:18,640
Do I have to admit I'm team 
Andrew on this one or is it like

1122
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:20,960
is it a tie? 
Because you also agree with me 

1123
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:23,480
that the the slightly easier 
paces was also OK. 

1124
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,360
I think it's a tie. 
So then we can just wear, you 

1125
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:29,360
know, each other's team shirt 
for Yeah. 

1126
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:31,960
Got it. 
So tie on that one. 

1127
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:35,280
But as always, we appreciate you
listening and we really do want 

1128
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:38,160
to know in the comments below of
the shoes we've talked about. 

1129
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:40,440
Do you agree or disagree? 
Who's going to I don't want to 

1130
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:43,560
say whose side are you on, but 
what are your perceptions of 

1131
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:45,080
that? 
Do you agree with one person or 

1132
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:47,000
the other? 
And that's really why we did 

1133
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:50,160
this is we want you to know that
even within us, we don't always 

1134
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:51,320
agree. 
And it's not that we're like 

1135
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:53,160
getting on each other and be 
like, you're wrong. 

1136
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:56,120
It's we know that that's a 
normal thing. 

1137
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:58,720
And so it's fun to explore and 
go, OK, why did you experience? 

1138
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,520
Oh, that's why experienced. 
That and every time we talk 

1139
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:04,080
about this, it's another bit of 
knowledge for us to go. 

1140
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:07,640
I wonder if when people do this,
that's how that changes the 

1141
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:09,360
perception and it gives us a 
better idea. 

1142
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:12,640
So hopefully we can give you 
better information to help you 

1143
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:15,120
make better decisions, which is 
the whole purpose of this whole 

1144
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:17,360
thing. 
You can always find us on a 

1145
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:18,880
variety of channels. 
Obviously, you might be 

1146
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:22,080
listening to this on either the 
many podcast websites that are 

1147
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:24,120
out there. 
You can find us on YouTube. 

1148
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:26,880
This is the YouTube channels 
generally releases this on 

1149
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:29,800
Sunday. 
The audio is released on 

1150
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:31,720
Wednesday. 
But there's also lots of other 

1151
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:34,160
different mediums to check us 
out on the website is the 

1152
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:36,400
original stuff where you'll find
all the written reviews. 

1153
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:39,480
So if you are a more visual 
person and you want to rate read

1154
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,920
our extensive stuff, go there. 
We have also plenty of stuff and

1155
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:45,640
ways to connect with us on 
LinkedIn, Strava and then many 

1156
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:47,360
different social media sites out
there. 

1157
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:49,680
I'm going to repeat this again 
because this is always the 

1158
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:51,440
purpose. 
We really hope this helps. 

1159
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:54,000
Hope you enjoy this and hope it 
helps you make better decisions 

1160
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:54,720
about the things you.