1 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,500 Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Doctors of Running podcast, 2 00:00:09,500 --> 00:00:12,294 where we, a group of Doctors of Physical Therapy, discuss the 3 00:00:12,294 --> 00:00:15,586 art and science of running and the stuff that you put on our 4 00:00:15,586 --> 00:00:17,735 feet. Today at the round table, we 5 00:00:17,735 --> 00:00:20,578 have the founder of Doctors Running, Dr. Matthew Klein, 6 00:00:20,578 --> 00:00:23,218 David Salas, and myself. I am Nathan Brown. 7 00:00:23,219 --> 00:00:25,813 We're excited to talk about a lot of the stuff that we've got 8 00:00:25,813 --> 00:00:28,201 in for testing, as well as a special topic, which I will 9 00:00:28,201 --> 00:00:30,665 bring up later. But this podcast, our presenting 10 00:00:30,665 --> 00:00:34,019 partner is Rabbit Apparel, and they're doing something cool 11 00:00:34,019 --> 00:00:37,953 that is new this year. They launched their 1st 12 00:00:37,953 --> 00:00:41,579 Clubhouse series location in Shominy for UTMB. 13 00:00:41,579 --> 00:00:43,978 And so basically, you can stay with Rabbit. 14 00:00:43,979 --> 00:00:47,235 They have a lot of activations happening from their hotel and 15 00:00:47,235 --> 00:00:50,194 you'd be within walking distance, a 2 minute walk from 16 00:00:50,194 --> 00:00:52,259 the start and finish line of UTMB. 17 00:00:52,259 --> 00:00:54,866 There's going to be more of these that are happening this 18 00:00:54,866 --> 00:00:56,999 year, including ones for Chicago and New York City. 19 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,304 So keep your eyes and ears open for that if you're wanting to be 20 00:01:00,304 --> 00:01:02,899 part of a very unique and special way to experience some 21 00:01:02,899 --> 00:01:05,982 of these big events. If you are wanting to check out 22 00:01:05,982 --> 00:01:09,958 Rabbit and you want to discount code for the month of April, you 23 00:01:09,958 --> 00:01:13,618 can use the code spring docs to get 10% off your order. 24 00:01:13,620 --> 00:01:17,169 All right, let's jump into the stuff that we are testing for 25 00:01:17,169 --> 00:01:19,812 this week. What do you have y'all been 26 00:01:19,812 --> 00:01:23,039 getting on your feet? I'll go first. 27 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,793 All right. So, it looked like you were 28 00:01:25,793 --> 00:01:28,738 going to have something, and then you paused. 29 00:01:28,739 --> 00:01:30,298 I was just gonna let you roll with it. 30 00:01:30,299 --> 00:01:34,238 So I talked about this last week, but I've got the on Cloud 31 00:01:34,238 --> 00:01:36,958 Soma, which I have used for the wrong things. 32 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:39,971 Um, I started out using it for trail and then realized because 33 00:01:39,971 --> 00:01:43,978 a lot of the stuff that I run on is like road to trail, so like 34 00:01:43,978 --> 00:01:47,082 at George Fox, where I teach, I got to run like half a mile and 35 00:01:47,082 --> 00:01:49,390 then I get to trail and I was like, wow, these actually feel 36 00:01:49,390 --> 00:01:51,835 really good on road. And then I've been doing a ton 37 00:01:51,835 --> 00:01:54,313 of road miles in them and then actually been great. 38 00:01:54,313 --> 00:01:57,030 And I feel like it's really emphasized that like, you don't 39 00:01:57,030 --> 00:01:59,639 always need Mac Stackhat. You got a good foam, moderate 40 00:01:59,639 --> 00:02:02,039 stack height, smooth ride. It's been really nice. 41 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,378 I'm just not using it for what's intended to be. 42 00:02:04,379 --> 00:02:06,718 That's also holding up despite rodeo. 43 00:02:06,719 --> 00:02:10,175 I think about like almost 40 miles of roads on these and 44 00:02:10,175 --> 00:02:11,638 they're doing great. I really like it. 45 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,125 It'd be nice to have a fully road version, but I'm making it 46 00:02:14,125 --> 00:02:15,418 a road version. So. 47 00:02:15,419 --> 00:02:20,016 What is it most similar to in the online up that you've 48 00:02:20,016 --> 00:02:22,198 experienced? I don't know. 49 00:02:22,199 --> 00:02:25,451 I mean, because a lot of the stuff, like either you've got 50 00:02:25,451 --> 00:02:28,161 kind of their more like your cloud monster, cloud monster, 51 00:02:28,161 --> 00:02:30,598 hyper kind of stuff, which is taller stack height. 52 00:02:30,599 --> 00:02:34,694 And then you've got some of the like, even the cloud flyer is 53 00:02:34,694 --> 00:02:36,899 taller than this, if I remember correctly. 54 00:02:36,900 --> 00:02:41,662 So it's, it's, the, maybe the, just normal kind of Cloud Surfer 55 00:02:41,662 --> 00:02:43,614 next. Maybe the on Cloud Surfer next 56 00:02:43,614 --> 00:02:46,198 might be closest, but the fits a little bit wider. 57 00:02:46,199 --> 00:02:49,378 It's a little softer midsole. David, what do you think? 58 00:02:49,379 --> 00:02:52,079 In the summer. The Soma is wide in software? 59 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,119 What do you think? I feel like, now you have more 60 00:02:55,119 --> 00:02:58,750 miles than I do, but I feel like it's almost reminiscent of the 61 00:02:58,750 --> 00:03:01,819 cloud go to some degree, a little bit more flexibility up 62 00:03:01,819 --> 00:03:04,019 front. And it's different. 63 00:03:04,020 --> 00:03:07,498 Like where the cloud go is obviously road specific. 64 00:03:07,500 --> 00:03:11,599 It almost feels like a baby. Like, if you took like some of 65 00:03:11,599 --> 00:03:14,194 the stiffness from the cloud flow and then took the cloud go 66 00:03:14,194 --> 00:03:16,570 platform and put it together and then put an all-terrain outsole 67 00:03:16,570 --> 00:03:19,162 on the bottom and made it a little bit lighter with the 68 00:03:19,162 --> 00:03:21,538 helon HF, that's kind of what it feels like to me. 69 00:03:21,539 --> 00:03:25,981 But I don't know. I mean, yeah, like a good foam 70 00:03:25,981 --> 00:03:28,258 relatively stable, but still flexible, like it. 71 00:03:28,259 --> 00:03:30,323 Yeah, it's interesting. It's an interesting shoe and 72 00:03:30,323 --> 00:03:33,669 it's a unique one for on because I feel like we haven't really 73 00:03:33,669 --> 00:03:36,239 seen very many shoes like that in the online up. 74 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:40,878 Um, but yeah, it's really nice. I got to get more miles on it 75 00:03:40,878 --> 00:03:43,210 because I've been focusing on some other shoes at the moment, 76 00:03:43,210 --> 00:03:45,118 but which we'll obviously get into, but it's nice. 77 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,043 It's really nice, actually. So that one, I'm still getting 78 00:03:48,043 --> 00:03:51,967 miles, another on shoe on the on Cloudboom Volt, which has broken 79 00:03:51,967 --> 00:03:55,564 in very nicely, and it's no longer, kind of looks like 80 00:03:55,564 --> 00:03:57,833 overly stiff. And what's becoming is it feels 81 00:03:57,833 --> 00:04:01,599 like if anybody knows the A6 DS Racer, back in the day, it kind 82 00:04:01,599 --> 00:04:04,558 of feels similar with like a more superfoam and higher stack 83 00:04:04,558 --> 00:04:07,239 height where the heel is actually kind of rigid and 84 00:04:07,239 --> 00:04:08,579 stable, like actually immediately stable. 85 00:04:08,580 --> 00:04:12,668 And I didn't expect this. And I think the more straight 86 00:04:12,668 --> 00:04:14,496 platform. It's not a stability shoe, but 87 00:04:14,496 --> 00:04:17,567 it's definitely stiff enough in that rear foot that my post tip 88 00:04:17,567 --> 00:04:20,384 is not sore after running in this, even doing some longer 89 00:04:20,384 --> 00:04:22,919 stuff. The one thing I will say is it's 90 00:04:22,919 --> 00:04:25,480 not the fastest right. It definitely works well for 91 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,601 up-tempo stuff, for temple runs and workouts, but like trying to 92 00:04:28,601 --> 00:04:31,259 go really fast in the shoe. I have really struggled. 93 00:04:31,259 --> 00:04:34,574 So not the same reach as maybe some other super shoes, but I 94 00:04:34,574 --> 00:04:36,359 don't think it's fully meant for that. 95 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:40,351 I think it's meant to be an entry level, true that in my 96 00:04:40,351 --> 00:04:44,342 opinion, kind of combines the on cloud boom Echo 3 with the cloud 97 00:04:44,342 --> 00:04:48,329 boom zone, or just kind of like meshes them, kind of more that 98 00:04:48,329 --> 00:04:51,389 like, performance trainer, maybe super racing, she even's got the 99 00:04:51,389 --> 00:04:54,119 components, but it's been great. It's been it broke in. 100 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,040 I didn't think I was going to like this on the initial 101 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:56,999 impressions, but it's been really solid. 102 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,941 And then the last one I've got, number three, is the Mizuno Wave 103 00:05:00,941 --> 00:05:04,319 Horizon, which I'd love to know. like, what do you think about 104 00:05:04,319 --> 00:05:06,838 this color wave? Have you seen this? 105 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:08,879 It's hard to tell from here. Can you bring it closer? 106 00:05:08,879 --> 00:05:11,811 It looks like cre like all. Oh, is it great and green 107 00:05:11,811 --> 00:05:14,374 together? It's like an olive green with 108 00:05:14,374 --> 00:05:15,359 green? Kind of. 109 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,432 Yeah. And then like a little like blue 110 00:05:18,432 --> 00:05:25,679 hombre on it? Uh, I don't know if I love it. 111 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,619 The medial side looks better than the lateral side. 112 00:05:28,620 --> 00:05:32,603 I feel like the blue actually. You would think the blue would 113 00:05:32,603 --> 00:05:34,919 make it nicer, but I think the blue takes away from it. 114 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:36,981 So I'm not a good fashion judge, but I think these look pretty 115 00:05:36,981 --> 00:05:38,159 sick. Actually, actually. 116 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,379 Like, I like, yeah. No, no, it's not bad. 117 00:05:40,379 --> 00:05:44,073 Like, I feel like if you took the blue and you took it off, 118 00:05:44,073 --> 00:05:46,966 those neutral tones, actually, would come out really good, I am 119 00:05:46,966 --> 00:05:49,859 not as, obviously, I do not do stylistic choices on shoes. 120 00:05:49,860 --> 00:05:52,990 But I feel like those colors complement each other well 121 00:05:52,990 --> 00:05:56,819 outside of the blue. So it's mainly the blue. 122 00:05:56,819 --> 00:06:00,419 Yeah, so wore this down in my wife and I took a trip down to 123 00:06:00,419 --> 00:06:01,859 Corvallis, just not too far away. 124 00:06:01,860 --> 00:06:04,356 She went to Oregon State for a few years before transferring to 125 00:06:04,356 --> 00:06:06,247 Cal Poli, Pomona. And I was walking around 126 00:06:06,247 --> 00:06:08,559 downtown Corvallis in these. People were like, wow, those 127 00:06:08,559 --> 00:06:11,579 shoes look really nice. Oh, okay. 128 00:06:11,579 --> 00:06:13,407 Well, not used to getting comments on that, but it was 129 00:06:13,407 --> 00:06:14,919 really good. And from a performance where 130 00:06:14,919 --> 00:06:16,799 I've already got almost 20 miles on these. 131 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,278 Derbil is heck. a it's a definitely a tag of a shoot. 132 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,564 It's not light, but fortunately, the mid-soulfold Mizuner energy 133 00:06:23,564 --> 00:06:27,579 NXT does offset that feels kind of firm, bouncy, and like, 134 00:06:27,579 --> 00:06:33,045 what's it coming in at? I think it's like 11.8 ounces 135 00:06:33,045 --> 00:06:35,477 for meds. It's heavy or it might be even 136 00:06:35,477 --> 00:06:37,800 heavier than that. Every horizon has been heavy, 137 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:41,760 but it's like that stability tank that does its job really 138 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:42,899 well. Yeah. 139 00:06:42,899 --> 00:06:44,639 Yeah, my size 10 is 12.one ounces. 140 00:06:44,639 --> 00:06:47,459 So it's it's not light, but super durable. 141 00:06:47,459 --> 00:06:49,019 Upper is a little bit more secure. 142 00:06:49,019 --> 00:06:51,419 It actually got a little bit more snug to the prior versions. 143 00:06:51,420 --> 00:06:52,799 The old ones were like really wide. 144 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,740 This one, the tow box tapers a little bit. which has gotten 145 00:06:55,740 --> 00:06:58,515 used to, but yeah. And again, doesn't like have 146 00:06:58,515 --> 00:07:00,748 like any heel levels. So like I find myself kind of 147 00:07:00,748 --> 00:07:02,579 getting, I'm like, I don't think I'm going to like this. 148 00:07:02,579 --> 00:07:05,993 And then something happens and I like, I don't know if I shift my 149 00:07:05,993 --> 00:07:08,816 loading forward. It doesn't bother me as much on 150 00:07:08,816 --> 00:07:12,479 the run, but a good walking shoe for sure, for sure. 151 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:16,673 I remember, I remember when X-Pop came out for the 1st time 152 00:07:16,673 --> 00:07:22,257 in the sky and it was, I, it was at the dawn of some of these 153 00:07:22,257 --> 00:07:26,096 like bouncier foams, but I just remember that one being so 154 00:07:26,096 --> 00:07:30,633 heavy, but being able to kind of just bounce around on 10, 15 155 00:07:30,633 --> 00:07:35,519 mile runs in the sky when the X-Pop came out for the 1st time. 156 00:07:35,519 --> 00:07:38,759 I saw my mug. I knew too. 157 00:07:38,759 --> 00:07:41,399 I have my X pot mug, too. Oh, if I do. 158 00:07:41,399 --> 00:07:44,879 It's a great mug. find it. It's a nice mug. 159 00:07:44,879 --> 00:07:47,219 Sweet. Anything else for you, Matt? 160 00:07:47,220 --> 00:07:50,929 I mean, I'm still testing the Under Armour velocity elite 161 00:07:50,929 --> 00:07:53,715 three. I'm hoping to get a review of 162 00:07:53,715 --> 00:07:57,379 this and the Salmon Phantasm 3 out this week. 12 things 163 00:07:57,379 --> 00:08:00,459 depending on on teaching and clinic load, but it's still been 164 00:08:00,459 --> 00:08:02,099 really solid. Durability's been excellent. 165 00:08:02,100 --> 00:08:07,139 Holding on really, really well. Um, Yeah. 166 00:08:07,139 --> 00:08:09,989 Great fit, bouncing along, very low drop, if that's something 167 00:08:09,989 --> 00:08:12,150 you want. I'm still kind of easing into 168 00:08:12,150 --> 00:08:17,185 that, but that's what I got. I don't have anything new to 169 00:08:17,185 --> 00:08:19,834 report. I've just been getting more 170 00:08:19,834 --> 00:08:24,814 miles on the Cloud Monster 3 hyper from on that shoe right 171 00:08:24,814 --> 00:08:29,783 now has the best fit and kind of platform and rigidity compliance 172 00:08:29,783 --> 00:08:33,462 for my return back. So I've just been riding with it 173 00:08:33,462 --> 00:08:36,530 and it's been great. I'm getting slightly longer runs 174 00:08:36,530 --> 00:08:39,958 in it, but It's just such a great trainer. 175 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,798 I really, really like, I really like running in that shoe. 176 00:08:43,799 --> 00:08:47,079 It's got that, just a smooth, really smooth transitions from 177 00:08:47,079 --> 00:08:50,448 the heel to the forefoot. It's stable, it's offloading 178 00:08:50,448 --> 00:08:56,064 kind of my posterior calf enough in this kind of return after a 179 00:08:56,064 --> 00:08:59,699 tibial stress fracture. So, I'm thankful for it. 180 00:08:59,700 --> 00:09:03,683 It's a great dream. I will say, I think it's one of 181 00:09:03,683 --> 00:09:05,699 the few shoes across our entire team. 182 00:09:05,700 --> 00:09:10,890 I think everyone's liked it. Yeah. that's pretty rare to have 183 00:09:10,890 --> 00:09:13,379 everyone. So that's pretty cool. 184 00:09:13,379 --> 00:09:16,019 I guess it's on to me, huh? Yeah. 185 00:09:16,019 --> 00:09:20,144 Okay, so by the time this errors, the written review on 186 00:09:20,144 --> 00:09:23,519 this will be out, but, um, Sockney Ride 19. 187 00:09:23,519 --> 00:09:25,319 So that is gonna be coming through. 188 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:30,471 It's an interesting shoe. I know this is not a review 189 00:09:30,471 --> 00:09:34,222 video, but we talked about this on another podcast, but it's 190 00:09:34,222 --> 00:09:38,314 just gotten a little bit more plush all around, and I don't 191 00:09:38,314 --> 00:09:40,019 think it's necessarily for worst. 192 00:09:40,019 --> 00:09:42,719 I think it just changes the direction of the shoe. 193 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,087 Where it's still a nice shoe and I still like it for easy 194 00:09:46,087 --> 00:09:49,193 shuffling miles, but it feels a little bit more of like the 195 00:09:49,193 --> 00:09:50,999 triumphs from the last couple years ago. 196 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:55,808 Um, surprisingly, it's power run plus, but it feels softer, like 197 00:09:55,808 --> 00:09:58,660 power on PB. And I think some of that, like, 198 00:09:58,660 --> 00:10:01,740 they put a lot more soul flair in the forefoot and the heel and 199 00:10:01,740 --> 00:10:04,600 they made it kind of bulbous where it kind of comes out and 200 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:05,699 there's these little ridge lines. 201 00:10:05,700 --> 00:10:09,197 It reminds me a little bit of like the Vomero plus design, and 202 00:10:09,197 --> 00:10:12,425 I wrote about that in the review, where it's like, I feel 203 00:10:12,425 --> 00:10:15,384 like, now, I don't have anything objective to quantify that, but 204 00:10:15,384 --> 00:10:18,612 it does make the shoe feel softer when I see those designs 205 00:10:18,612 --> 00:10:22,109 built into shoes, but it feels like a softer step in when you 206 00:10:22,109 --> 00:10:25,063 land and when you transition. And the rocker just feels like 207 00:10:25,063 --> 00:10:26,939 it's a little bit more dialed in. 208 00:10:26,940 --> 00:10:30,959 Um, so it just feels different than the previous rides. 209 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,805 It doesn't feel bad. It just doesn't feel quite as 210 00:10:33,805 --> 00:10:35,699 fast. It doesn't feel. 211 00:10:35,700 --> 00:10:38,399 I won't say it feels more stable. 212 00:10:38,399 --> 00:10:40,831 It feels about the same because it got softer, but it widened 213 00:10:40,831 --> 00:10:43,421 out a little bit. Like the platform itself feels a 214 00:10:43,421 --> 00:10:46,678 little bit more stable, but like the softer foam offsets that. 215 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,368 So it's still neutral. And then the upper got a lot 216 00:10:49,368 --> 00:10:52,360 more plush too. So it's just like it, it's an 217 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,429 interesting move from Sockenese part, but I think as far as the 218 00:10:56,429 --> 00:10:59,819 masses go, especially at like, what is it, 145 retail. 219 00:10:59,820 --> 00:11:02,158 That's actually not a bad price for this. 220 00:11:02,159 --> 00:11:04,499 I think it's actually a pretty darn good shoe. 221 00:11:04,500 --> 00:11:07,859 So, yeah, it's actually really good. 222 00:11:07,860 --> 00:11:10,379 I just don't think it's gonna make my lists at the end of the 223 00:11:10,379 --> 00:11:12,431 year. I think for me, I like the, I 224 00:11:12,431 --> 00:11:15,473 personally, just I think I like the rides of old, but I think 225 00:11:15,473 --> 00:11:18,047 for the masses, it's not a bad direction, especially if it's 226 00:11:18,047 --> 00:11:19,678 going to be a pure training shoe. 227 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,357 I just feel like it loses some of that speedy edge that it used 228 00:11:22,357 --> 00:11:25,102 to have. How would you compare it to the 229 00:11:25,102 --> 00:11:27,548 Azura? Oh, the Azura is way more 230 00:11:27,548 --> 00:11:29,879 snappy. Yeah, way more snappy. 231 00:11:29,879 --> 00:11:31,739 It's like about an ounce lighter, right? 232 00:11:31,740 --> 00:11:35,138 About an ounce and a half maybe. I feel like the Azura kind of 233 00:11:35,138 --> 00:11:38,995 took some of that energy, and then now the ride has become a 234 00:11:38,995 --> 00:11:42,547 little bit more trampy, a little bit more relaxed, a little bit 235 00:11:42,547 --> 00:11:44,567 more comfortable. Not comfortable is not the right 236 00:11:44,567 --> 00:11:46,709 word, but just like that software, kind of easier, 237 00:11:46,709 --> 00:11:49,087 riding, whereas the Azura is like, this is your lightweight 238 00:11:49,087 --> 00:11:52,168 trainer, kind of where the ride really sat for a long time, and 239 00:11:52,168 --> 00:11:54,538 that has now begun to move away a little bit. 240 00:11:54,539 --> 00:11:56,639 So I'm curious to see what the new triumph will look like. 241 00:11:56,639 --> 00:11:59,422 Yeah, I wrote about that in the review, too, because I was like, 242 00:11:59,422 --> 00:12:01,990 I'm sure that there's going to be some changes coming to the 243 00:12:01,990 --> 00:12:04,344 triumph, especially if these are the changes being made to the 244 00:12:04,344 --> 00:12:05,999 riot. It just feels like the natural 245 00:12:05,999 --> 00:12:07,400 progression. I don't actually have any inside 246 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,188 knowledge on that. But, uh, yeah, like, that makes 247 00:12:10,188 --> 00:12:14,972 a lot of sense now that you're saying that because the Azura is 248 00:12:14,972 --> 00:12:18,652 that kind of firmer, snappier, lighter platform and it's more 249 00:12:18,652 --> 00:12:21,058 responsive. So it does it. 250 00:12:21,059 --> 00:12:23,579 Yeah, I guess it does. Like if we go back a couple 251 00:12:23,579 --> 00:12:25,979 versions and we look at the ride 16 and 17. 252 00:12:25,980 --> 00:12:29,459 It looks kind of like that, but power on PB. 253 00:12:29,460 --> 00:12:32,579 Now that I'm thinking about it. Like, yeah, interesting. 254 00:12:32,580 --> 00:12:34,918 I never thought about that connection. 255 00:12:34,919 --> 00:12:38,039 But yeah, I guess the Azura is kind of filling that void, but 256 00:12:38,039 --> 00:12:41,244 with a nicer foam. So, I don't know, maybe that's 257 00:12:41,244 --> 00:12:45,778 why I like the Azura so much. But okay. 258 00:12:45,779 --> 00:12:48,298 I actually wanted to quick interject. 259 00:12:48,299 --> 00:12:51,127 There was another shoe that I tried, and then I had to take it 260 00:12:51,127 --> 00:12:52,739 off because it just wasn't working for me. 261 00:12:52,740 --> 00:12:58,144 So I gotten a little bit in on the super blast, the new super 262 00:12:58,144 --> 00:13:00,843 blast. And interestingly for me, I know 263 00:13:00,843 --> 00:13:03,538 we've talked about, it's flight phone leap. 264 00:13:03,539 --> 00:13:06,778 So it's got that very compliant foam. 265 00:13:06,779 --> 00:13:11,105 But then it has on the medial side, it has the more kind of 266 00:13:11,105 --> 00:13:15,119 EVA dense foam that kind of is built up on the medial side. 267 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:19,859 And for me, it's, I can really feel that pushing into my foot. 268 00:13:19,860 --> 00:13:23,592 Like I, I just notice it from step in and when I start 269 00:13:23,592 --> 00:13:25,961 running. And that leap is just too 270 00:13:25,961 --> 00:13:29,639 squirrely for me. It does not feel stable enough. 271 00:13:29,639 --> 00:13:33,371 Um, not that the platform isn't built to be stable, but the foam 272 00:13:33,371 --> 00:13:35,528 itself. I'm just kind of pushing in on 273 00:13:35,528 --> 00:13:38,459 all sides of it and I had to take it off. 274 00:13:38,460 --> 00:13:41,699 I just, I feel like I, in the phase I'm in of return. 275 00:13:41,700 --> 00:13:44,528 I don't want to take any risks and it was just, I could just 276 00:13:44,528 --> 00:13:46,139 tell how squirrely it was underneath the foot. 277 00:13:46,139 --> 00:13:49,589 Not wobbly, but just squishy underneath, and then I could 278 00:13:49,589 --> 00:13:53,375 feel that pushing up into the medial side of my arch. 279 00:13:53,375 --> 00:13:56,862 Fly foam leap is very soft. It's one of those foams where 280 00:13:56,862 --> 00:13:59,459 you put it on and you know it's not for everyone. 281 00:13:59,460 --> 00:14:01,866 Right. It's got, you know, it's going 282 00:14:01,866 --> 00:14:04,476 to work for some people. The other thing that like, I 283 00:14:04,476 --> 00:14:06,958 know, Andrew and I kind of struggle with is how much 284 00:14:06,958 --> 00:14:09,433 lateral flair there is where it's just kind of really just 285 00:14:09,433 --> 00:14:12,133 kind of causes early initial contact for the 2 of us because 286 00:14:12,133 --> 00:14:14,158 we land pretty far lateral, although in different places. 287 00:14:14,159 --> 00:14:16,439 So yeah, it's going to work great for some people. 288 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,319 I think that it has not worked for others. 289 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,609 Yeah. David, what else you have, 290 00:14:22,609 --> 00:14:25,171 though? Yeah, so I got the Solomon Arrow 291 00:14:25,171 --> 00:14:28,918 Glide for gravel, that will be coming later this week as well. 292 00:14:28,919 --> 00:14:32,763 So by the time this airs, this will probably also be out review 293 00:14:32,763 --> 00:14:34,925 wise. Um, I haven't actually run it, 294 00:14:34,925 --> 00:14:38,339 but those miles will be done by the time this airs. 295 00:14:38,340 --> 00:14:43,766 And the review will be out. But yeah, I, I want to like it, 296 00:14:43,766 --> 00:14:46,071 though. Like, it's one of those rough 297 00:14:46,071 --> 00:14:47,999 ones. Well, I think we talked about 298 00:14:47,999 --> 00:14:51,239 this with the Arrow Glad 4, the road version. where there's a 299 00:14:51,239 --> 00:14:54,209 lot of soul flaring, and I talked about this with Andrea 300 00:14:54,209 --> 00:14:57,449 last week, um, when this came in, that lateral soul flare is 301 00:14:57,449 --> 00:15:00,419 pretty prominent, and the way the upper is integrated into the 302 00:15:00,419 --> 00:15:03,389 platform, it almost feels like it's undercut, and it feels like 303 00:15:03,389 --> 00:15:06,359 you get this like wedged feeling in your 5th met head. 304 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,360 Metatarsal head being like on the outer part of your foot in 305 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:10,859 the forefoot there for the listeners. 306 00:15:10,860 --> 00:15:15,401 And I just, I got that in the road version, and I put this on, 307 00:15:15,401 --> 00:15:18,119 I immediately got it in the gravel version too. 308 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:22,979 With outside of that, I actually did like the road version. 309 00:15:22,980 --> 00:15:25,638 It's just one of those things where it just wasn't quite for 310 00:15:25,638 --> 00:15:28,732 me as far as the full package goes, but I could still see a 311 00:15:28,732 --> 00:15:31,199 lot of people really liking it. The foam is still really good. 312 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:32,999 The geometry is good. The weight's good. 313 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,301 It checks all the boxes. I think it's just the fit and 314 00:15:36,301 --> 00:15:38,530 the way it's integrated with that soul flair doesn't agree 315 00:15:38,530 --> 00:15:40,999 with me the best. So I have a feeling that's 316 00:15:40,999 --> 00:15:44,155 probably going to be the case with the gravel version as well, 317 00:15:44,155 --> 00:15:46,259 but we'll get some miles and we'll see. 318 00:15:46,259 --> 00:15:50,038 Um, but yeah, it's an interesting feeling. 319 00:15:50,039 --> 00:15:53,219 I honestly, it's pretty rare for me to get that in shoes. 320 00:15:53,220 --> 00:15:55,319 Um, but however they have it integrated there. 321 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,619 I mean, it's it's quite a bit and it digs in. 322 00:15:58,620 --> 00:16:01,019 I don't know if client, have you, do you have this? 323 00:16:01,019 --> 00:16:04,785 I have it. I haven't tried on the gravel 324 00:16:04,785 --> 00:16:06,778 version yet. The road version I struggled. 325 00:16:06,779 --> 00:16:08,699 Was it the lateral flair as well? 326 00:16:08,700 --> 00:16:10,139 Okay, so we're in the same boat there? 327 00:16:10,139 --> 00:16:11,879 Yeah, it was just it was just too much. 328 00:16:11,879 --> 00:16:14,787 Like, I loved version three. That was like a top shoot of the 329 00:16:14,787 --> 00:16:17,172 year and it was Austin C. That, that small geometrical 330 00:16:17,172 --> 00:16:19,499 change, just it's, it's just not working. 331 00:16:19,500 --> 00:16:23,459 Yeah, I'm glad because you, everything else is fine. 332 00:16:23,460 --> 00:16:27,761 All 3 of us have felt that. So yeah, and the last two, I'll 333 00:16:27,761 --> 00:16:31,377 put them together. So you have like a base model 334 00:16:31,377 --> 00:16:35,041 and the speed model. And this one will probably be, I 335 00:16:35,041 --> 00:16:38,038 will be writing this as this comes out probably. 336 00:16:38,039 --> 00:16:41,669 But Agravitch Speed 2 from Adidas, so Light Strike Pro 337 00:16:41,669 --> 00:16:44,207 Mitzel, Continental Full Outsole, Narrow Midfoot that 338 00:16:44,207 --> 00:16:48,265 we've brought up a couple times. Super lightweight upper, locks 339 00:16:48,265 --> 00:16:51,411 down pretty well. I just gotta get some miles on 340 00:16:51,411 --> 00:16:53,955 this. So it's going to be the gravel 341 00:16:53,955 --> 00:16:57,881 from Solomon, then this, and then the other one is going to 342 00:16:57,881 --> 00:17:01,151 be the regular counterpart, the Agravitch 4, from Adidas, that 343 00:17:01,151 --> 00:17:03,916 is, Adidas, Agravitch 4. So this one standing in, I wore 344 00:17:03,916 --> 00:17:05,578 it to work and walked around in it. 345 00:17:05,579 --> 00:17:08,459 It's much more stable for sure. Like, it just feels really 346 00:17:08,459 --> 00:17:11,137 sturdy and a reliable fit. I think I'm actually going to 347 00:17:11,137 --> 00:17:13,499 like this one a lot. We'll see. 348 00:17:13,500 --> 00:17:17,099 But yeah, one is light strike and the other one's light strike 349 00:17:17,099 --> 00:17:18,480 Pro. The aggravitch speed is 350 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,719 definitely a lot more speed oriented as it is in the name. 351 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,425 You could tell this thing, it wants to be aggressive where 352 00:17:24,425 --> 00:17:27,377 this one kind of wants this one being the aggravate four, wants 353 00:17:27,377 --> 00:17:30,568 you to be out there for more easy miles and you're going to 354 00:17:30,568 --> 00:17:34,103 be out there a little longer. The nice thing about the 4, 355 00:17:34,103 --> 00:17:37,199 though, and that series has also been super stable. 356 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,936 Not the fastest shoe, but really, really, really stable, 357 00:17:39,936 --> 00:17:43,239 which is where I'm kind of confused. getting miles, um, on 358 00:17:43,239 --> 00:17:47,074 this on the, I graphic TT, which is kind of an interesting issue 359 00:17:47,074 --> 00:17:50,308 where it's supposed to be the more stable version of the 360 00:17:50,308 --> 00:17:53,606 speed, but it's much heavier. And they have light strike pro 361 00:17:53,606 --> 00:17:57,254 in the midfoot and then a light strike encasing around it, which 362 00:17:57,254 --> 00:18:00,598 what that's made me feel like is not necessarily more stable. 363 00:18:00,599 --> 00:18:03,179 I mean, like stable at the forefoot and a little bit to 364 00:18:03,179 --> 00:18:05,539 heel, but the midfoot's actually a little bit to use Nathan 365 00:18:05,539 --> 00:18:07,679 Strum's, a little bit more, was it Nathan or David? 366 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:08,818 I remember who said it squirrely. 367 00:18:08,819 --> 00:18:11,256 Yeah, squirly. Yeah, just the midfoot feels a 368 00:18:11,256 --> 00:18:14,015 teeny bit more squirrely. The sidewalls are halfway decent 369 00:18:14,015 --> 00:18:17,699 and the, the, and the uh, rods kind of stabilizes somewhat, but 370 00:18:17,699 --> 00:18:20,759 I just, it's not exactly where I would have put. 371 00:18:20,759 --> 00:18:22,499 I understand why they probably did it. 372 00:18:22,500 --> 00:18:26,130 It's just been a little bit odd. So yeah, there's a 3rd one in 373 00:18:26,130 --> 00:18:28,139 that lineup that I'm also working on. 374 00:18:28,140 --> 00:18:32,159 Awesome. That's all I got. 375 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,139 Yep, there, yeah. Great. 376 00:18:34,140 --> 00:18:36,538 No more, no more honorable mentions for anything. 377 00:18:36,539 --> 00:18:38,999 We're good. No more add-ons. 378 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,759 Getting all back on. Well, it's it's getting to a 379 00:18:42,759 --> 00:18:46,656 fun, fun season around here. I know y'all have been in decent 380 00:18:46,656 --> 00:18:49,824 weather, but it was like 60 degrees today and we're starting 381 00:18:49,824 --> 00:18:53,568 to not be in the 20s in the morning, so we're we're coming 382 00:18:53,568 --> 00:18:55,764 out out of that. I'm excited to get some more 383 00:18:55,764 --> 00:18:59,012 miles in the summer. and running a little bit more variety too at 384 00:18:59,012 --> 00:19:01,817 some point. As always, our infra testing 385 00:19:01,817 --> 00:19:04,499 segment is fueled by scratch labs. 386 00:19:04,500 --> 00:19:08,658 If you want to check out any of their stuff for on the run 387 00:19:08,658 --> 00:19:11,628 nutrition or hydration or recovery stuff, you can go to 388 00:19:11,628 --> 00:19:14,598 scratchlabs.com, and you could use the code Doctors of Running 389 00:19:14,598 --> 00:19:19,019 for 20% off your order. Have y'all gotten the mail? 390 00:19:19,019 --> 00:19:22,436 I haven't tried it yet, but I'm very curious as to why they're 391 00:19:22,436 --> 00:19:25,056 delaying the watermelon flavor for this, but no, I'm just 392 00:19:25,056 --> 00:19:27,118 kidding. I'm just kidding. 393 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:29,879 No, I think they're hitting on their flavors lately. 394 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,380 The passionfruit guava, like orange one, which I think is 395 00:19:33,380 --> 00:19:35,261 pretty good. And then I think the mango's 396 00:19:35,261 --> 00:19:37,618 better than that one has a little bit more flavor to it. 397 00:19:37,619 --> 00:19:42,451 but not like I don't like things that are overpoweringly 398 00:19:42,451 --> 00:19:46,798 overpoweringly flavorful, but the mango mango is really good. 399 00:19:46,799 --> 00:19:49,078 But I don't know why y'all haven't gotten it. 400 00:19:49,079 --> 00:19:51,527 I've been loving... No, but if it gets here before 401 00:19:51,527 --> 00:19:53,098 Boston, who knows? Maybe that's what I'll use. 402 00:19:53,099 --> 00:19:56,484 I've still been loving this. This is off topic, but loving 403 00:19:56,484 --> 00:19:59,212 their salted margarita mix for the electrolyte, the pure 404 00:19:59,212 --> 00:20:02,059 electrolyte mix. really, really nice as a way, because I have a 405 00:20:02,059 --> 00:20:04,959 trouble, I have trouble being in Oregon where I go, hey, I need 406 00:20:04,959 --> 00:20:07,635 to forget that even though it's raining here, I need to hydrate 407 00:20:07,635 --> 00:20:09,419 since I'm running, especially running inside a lot. 408 00:20:09,420 --> 00:20:12,778 So it really has been helpful to get some additional fluids in. 409 00:20:12,779 --> 00:20:14,459 I'm just, I love that mix. It great. 410 00:20:14,460 --> 00:20:16,995 It also makes a really great add-on to other carbohydrate 411 00:20:16,995 --> 00:20:20,284 mixes just to get a little bit more bites, not the right term, 412 00:20:20,284 --> 00:20:23,320 but like it's a little bit more salt in their electrolytes that 413 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:24,838 just have been really helpful recently. 414 00:20:24,839 --> 00:20:27,959 Nice. Great. 415 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,380 Well, let's transition into talking about the main segment 416 00:20:31,380 --> 00:20:35,940 for today, and we are actually going to have a really fun 417 00:20:35,940 --> 00:20:39,360 conversation because we are going to compare the differences 418 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:43,160 in walking versus running, and then bring that into thoughts 419 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,960 about what sort of construction of shoes might be most 420 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,760 appropriate for walking, and how much did you have crossover 421 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,038 between your running and walking shoes? 422 00:20:53,039 --> 00:20:55,798 And if you wanted one shoe to do it all. 423 00:20:55,799 --> 00:20:58,859 Should you do that, using one shoe all day long for your 424 00:20:58,859 --> 00:21:01,663 walking for your running, and just kind of learning more about 425 00:21:01,663 --> 00:21:04,711 the walking side of things, and kind of diving into that a 426 00:21:04,711 --> 00:21:07,904 little bit. So I think what we want to do 427 00:21:07,904 --> 00:21:11,924 1st is, Matt, if you are willing and able to start talking 428 00:21:11,924 --> 00:21:14,269 through the differences, mechanics wise, between walking 429 00:21:14,269 --> 00:21:18,624 and running and what that kind of means for the demand on our 430 00:21:18,624 --> 00:21:20,910 body. Yeah, so some of the, just 431 00:21:20,910 --> 00:21:22,858 starting with the very basics, right? 432 00:21:22,859 --> 00:21:25,822 Yes, they are both forms of locomotion or gate is kind of 433 00:21:25,822 --> 00:21:27,298 the official fancy terms for this. 434 00:21:27,299 --> 00:21:30,143 How they are accomplished is quite different because walking 435 00:21:30,143 --> 00:21:33,928 is unique from running is that walking always has at least one 436 00:21:33,928 --> 00:21:38,023 limb, if not 2 limbs on the ground at all times, as opposed 437 00:21:38,023 --> 00:21:40,858 to running, you are actually leaping off the ground. 438 00:21:40,859 --> 00:21:42,899 There's something called the flight phase where during 439 00:21:42,899 --> 00:21:45,959 running, there is a point when you have both feet off the 440 00:21:45,959 --> 00:21:47,999 ground, which means you're jumping in the air. 441 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,600 There's going to be higher impact forces, which is why 442 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,049 generally when they talk about body weight forces, In 443 00:21:53,049 --> 00:21:56,366 comparison, walking when you land is generally always usually 444 00:21:56,366 --> 00:21:59,335 one times body weight. Like when you land on the 445 00:21:59,335 --> 00:22:01,078 ground, unless there's something else going on. 446 00:22:01,079 --> 00:22:02,578 It just your body, what you're dealing with. 447 00:22:02,579 --> 00:22:05,109 When it's running, because you have the additional physics of 448 00:22:05,109 --> 00:22:07,379 getting up into the air and coming back down. 449 00:22:07,380 --> 00:22:11,880 It can be anywhere from 3 to 6 times your body weight, 3 to 5 450 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,180 is a common denominator, but yeah, it's a lot higher forces 451 00:22:15,180 --> 00:22:17,278 in running than walking because of that. 452 00:22:17,279 --> 00:22:19,879 Running also is inherently a little bit, requires a little 453 00:22:19,879 --> 00:22:23,259 bit more stability because if you you never have 2 feet on the 454 00:22:23,259 --> 00:22:25,319 ground. Walking, you always have at 455 00:22:25,319 --> 00:22:27,873 least one. And there is a point where you 456 00:22:27,873 --> 00:22:31,017 have double M stance phase where you have 2 feet really quickly 457 00:22:31,017 --> 00:22:34,151 and people that tend to not have balance will try to lengthen 458 00:22:34,151 --> 00:22:37,283 that phase out and have a really short step length just to 459 00:22:37,283 --> 00:22:40,154 shorten the time they only spend on what foot, whereas running 460 00:22:40,154 --> 00:22:42,851 you don't have that option. You're either off the ground or 461 00:22:42,851 --> 00:22:44,699 you're only on one foot at a time. 462 00:22:44,700 --> 00:22:48,692 So walking much lower forces involved, much lower muscular 463 00:22:48,692 --> 00:22:52,679 forces involved, there's some things you need to do. 464 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,387 Running is still going to be much more propulsive, much more 465 00:22:56,387 --> 00:22:59,747 shock absorb, much more forces, much more flight time, things 466 00:22:59,747 --> 00:23:01,428 like that. So they are inherently 467 00:23:01,428 --> 00:23:03,230 different. These definitions, by the way, 468 00:23:03,230 --> 00:23:06,020 are really important, especially in like racewalking events where 469 00:23:06,020 --> 00:23:10,980 if you you need to have one limb on the ground at all time or you 470 00:23:10,980 --> 00:23:13,770 are considered running and people get disqualified all the 471 00:23:13,770 --> 00:23:16,310 time for this. Ironically, between the 2 of 472 00:23:16,310 --> 00:23:19,208 them, the planar flexor muscles are like specifically calf 473 00:23:19,208 --> 00:23:22,424 muscles are some of the major things that help control 474 00:23:22,424 --> 00:23:26,276 movement in both of them when you're in when you're one foot's 475 00:23:26,276 --> 00:23:28,580 on the ground. So that's interesting that it 476 00:23:28,580 --> 00:23:31,523 happens with running as you get faster and faster, the hip 477 00:23:31,523 --> 00:23:33,659 starts to contribute more and more and more. 478 00:23:33,660 --> 00:23:36,839 But in terms of propulsion and controlling a lot of tibial 479 00:23:36,839 --> 00:23:39,719 translation, the cap is still dominant in both of them. 480 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,291 You're just going to get a lot more muscular force, obviously, 481 00:23:42,291 --> 00:23:45,087 depending on what phase of gate, and then as running goes, much 482 00:23:45,087 --> 00:23:47,519 more and greater amounts. So, yeah. 483 00:23:47,519 --> 00:23:50,709 I think an interesting piece regarding the calf, too, is that 484 00:23:50,709 --> 00:23:53,609 they both function similarly, but then there's kind of an 485 00:23:53,609 --> 00:23:57,089 additional piece for running, and what I mean by that is that 486 00:23:57,089 --> 00:24:00,859 for both situations, I'm going to show it on video with my arm, 487 00:24:00,859 --> 00:24:04,919 so those who are listening, I'll try to explain it as well as I 488 00:24:04,919 --> 00:24:08,679 can, but you're going to hit the ground, and then your shin kind 489 00:24:08,679 --> 00:24:11,858 of translates from, you know, leaning one direction to kind of 490 00:24:11,858 --> 00:24:14,459 leaning where your knee moves forward over your toe. 491 00:24:14,460 --> 00:24:18,615 That entire motion is controlled by your calf hanging on to the 492 00:24:18,615 --> 00:24:23,113 back of your shin to just make sure that it doesn't fly forward 493 00:24:23,113 --> 00:24:25,238 uncontrollably. And so that's what that calf is 494 00:24:25,238 --> 00:24:26,759 doing, both in walking and running. 495 00:24:26,759 --> 00:24:31,133 The additional function for running is in that propulsive 496 00:24:31,133 --> 00:24:33,915 phase. So getting, once your shin has 497 00:24:33,915 --> 00:24:36,798 translated forward, It's also part of this propulsion and 498 00:24:36,798 --> 00:24:40,422 moving forward up onto the toe, whereas in walking, a lot of 499 00:24:40,422 --> 00:24:42,838 that, your heel coming up off the ground. 500 00:24:42,839 --> 00:24:48,118 That's a passive motion. And so the calf is really this 501 00:24:48,118 --> 00:24:51,296 eccentric contraction, dominant activity from walking and 502 00:24:51,296 --> 00:24:55,379 running, it's got to kind of do 2 things. 503 00:24:55,380 --> 00:25:00,743 It has to eccentrically control and then kind of pop off and do 504 00:25:00,743 --> 00:25:04,998 some concentric action. Um, Just thought that was a 505 00:25:04,998 --> 00:25:09,517 unique difference between them 2 from a muscle activation 506 00:25:09,517 --> 00:25:12,340 standpoint. When you think about walking, I 507 00:25:12,340 --> 00:25:16,586 think it's also important for us maybe to put some parameters, 508 00:25:16,586 --> 00:25:20,060 because we do have speed walking, you know, in 509 00:25:20,060 --> 00:25:24,306 competitive race walking, but we also have going out for exercise 510 00:25:24,306 --> 00:25:27,907 for walks. We also have going out for a 511 00:25:27,907 --> 00:25:31,549 stroll around the block. I think where we are trying to 512 00:25:31,549 --> 00:25:34,439 hit in this conversation is kind of that middle ground. 513 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,485 We're not really talking racewalking when we're going to 514 00:25:37,485 --> 00:25:40,527 start talking about specific mechanics and when we're talking 515 00:25:40,527 --> 00:25:43,290 about recommendations for shoes. But we were talking about, 516 00:25:43,290 --> 00:25:47,238 you're going out and you want to go on a 30 minute walk that's 517 00:25:47,238 --> 00:25:49,776 going to help you with your cardiovascular health and 518 00:25:49,776 --> 00:25:52,594 wellness, and what sort of mechanics are required for that, 519 00:25:52,594 --> 00:25:55,739 and then, therefore, what shoes. David, oh, go ahead, Matt. 520 00:25:55,740 --> 00:25:59,695 I will note for the, I've gotten to work with a couple 521 00:25:59,695 --> 00:26:02,985 racewalkers that go from recreational all the way up to 522 00:26:02,985 --> 00:26:06,604 pro because Oregon obviously has a good number of individuals in 523 00:26:06,604 --> 00:26:08,578 the run, like racewalking, like area. 524 00:26:08,579 --> 00:26:12,572 Um, and it's interesting because I feel like for them, like 525 00:26:12,572 --> 00:26:15,475 ratios are obviously really, really important, but what 526 00:26:15,475 --> 00:26:19,560 people choose. It's just all over from, hey, I 527 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:24,137 love my vapor flyer. My A6 metaspeed sky to, I don't 528 00:26:24,137 --> 00:26:29,064 like this and I really love race and people going quick, like I 529 00:26:29,064 --> 00:26:32,376 want my minimal topo shoe. So like the variety of choices 530 00:26:32,376 --> 00:26:35,444 is I feel like so much more unique, um, than running, and I 531 00:26:35,444 --> 00:26:38,029 just, a lot of the runners, obviously, like most people that 532 00:26:38,029 --> 00:26:40,379 I talk to are just like, I want a supershoe. 533 00:26:40,380 --> 00:26:44,124 I was like, okay, this seems to be the common theme, but there's 534 00:26:44,124 --> 00:26:47,580 going to be some variation, but race walking from the people I 535 00:26:47,580 --> 00:26:50,748 work with, there's such a greater variety in what seems to 536 00:26:50,748 --> 00:26:54,197 work and what optimizes, um, so yeah, that I don't know, there's 537 00:26:54,197 --> 00:26:55,919 no evidence behind what I'm saying. 538 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,070 I haven't looked any of this up, but a lot of variety in terms of 539 00:26:59,070 --> 00:27:01,332 the race component. But we're, yeah, we're going to 540 00:27:01,332 --> 00:27:04,586 talk about, hey, we're, you're going out to, you have to walk 541 00:27:04,586 --> 00:27:08,120 for your job. You have to, you want to go out 542 00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:11,854 for walking in like the grocery store or walking for exercise, 543 00:27:11,854 --> 00:27:14,566 you know, not necessarily the competitive component because 544 00:27:14,566 --> 00:27:17,278 that's where things get a little more fuzzy. 545 00:27:17,279 --> 00:27:22,103 I think the other piece that might be worth talking about in 546 00:27:22,103 --> 00:27:25,717 regards to similarities and differences is the pathways of 547 00:27:25,717 --> 00:27:28,463 the foot. And so typically, and this is 548 00:27:28,463 --> 00:27:32,990 where it's going to be similar, if we say that a runner is a 549 00:27:32,990 --> 00:27:35,610 rear foot striker. Both of those individuals are 550 00:27:35,610 --> 00:27:39,560 going to land on the poster lateral, like the back and the 551 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,508 outside of their shoe or their foot, and then it's going to 552 00:27:43,508 --> 00:27:46,798 translate forward, you're going to kind of roll into pronation. 553 00:27:46,799 --> 00:27:50,283 The center of pressure is going to move to the inside of the 554 00:27:50,283 --> 00:27:53,767 foot, and then as you move to toe off, you're going to, what's 555 00:27:53,767 --> 00:27:56,715 called resupenate, and your foot is going to roll back, and 556 00:27:56,715 --> 00:27:59,127 you're going to kind of translate the weight forward, 557 00:27:59,127 --> 00:28:02,338 maybe a little bit laterally as you come to the 4 foot. 558 00:28:02,339 --> 00:28:06,013 And if you have a rear foot striker, that pattern generally 559 00:28:06,013 --> 00:28:09,680 is a similar poster lateral, coming a little bit more medial 560 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,330 and going forward. Obviously a big difference for 561 00:28:12,330 --> 00:28:14,916 somebody. If you are a runner and you're a 562 00:28:14,916 --> 00:28:18,300 midter, a 4 foot striker, you're going to start your contact on 563 00:28:18,300 --> 00:28:21,958 your shoe in a very different spot that may be obvious to say, 564 00:28:21,958 --> 00:28:25,892 but I do think for those of you who are 4 foot strikers, they're 565 00:28:25,892 --> 00:28:28,983 going to be shoes that feel great running, um, that might 566 00:28:28,983 --> 00:28:32,917 not be good at all for walking and we'll get into that in a 567 00:28:32,917 --> 00:28:34,950 little bit. Anything to add on that side of 568 00:28:34,950 --> 00:28:37,487 things? I will say like that walking 569 00:28:37,487 --> 00:28:41,744 gate, it is very, it is absolutely very normal to land 570 00:28:41,744 --> 00:28:45,980 heel 1st and roll through. That is normal walking by 571 00:28:45,980 --> 00:28:48,959 mechanics. Walking on your forefoot. 572 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,040 There are a few people who do that, and I've got the honor of 573 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,230 working with a couple people that have things like cerebral 574 00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:56,420 palsy or variety of other pathologies where they get up 575 00:28:56,420 --> 00:28:58,475 there. It's not efficient and those 576 00:28:58,475 --> 00:29:02,879 individuals I work with, they expend a lot of energy to walk. 577 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,952 And the reason that most of us heel strike is just energy 578 00:29:05,952 --> 00:29:08,759 cost-wise, it's so much for, it's what we are designed for. 579 00:29:08,759 --> 00:29:11,823 And then when you deviate from that, it just takes a lot more 580 00:29:11,823 --> 00:29:13,087 energy. So most people are going to go 581 00:29:13,087 --> 00:29:14,952 through that. With running, you can get away 582 00:29:14,952 --> 00:29:17,828 with that because obviously the majority of people are going to 583 00:29:17,828 --> 00:29:20,699 heel strike that's just what the evidence and what you'll see. 584 00:29:20,700 --> 00:29:24,768 But people can do more 4 foot midfoot because at those speeds, 585 00:29:24,768 --> 00:29:28,489 you're going to be able to utilize tendon elasticity a lot 586 00:29:28,489 --> 00:29:32,759 more than slower walking speeds. So you can be just as efficient. 587 00:29:32,759 --> 00:29:35,799 Although some evidence came out that suggested that foot strike 588 00:29:35,799 --> 00:29:38,839 does not actually impact efficiency as much as we thought 589 00:29:38,839 --> 00:29:41,271 in running gate, which is interesting, really big 590 00:29:41,271 --> 00:29:44,615 systematic review that just came out, they need to double check 591 00:29:44,615 --> 00:29:46,439 and go get that information again. 592 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,477 But yeah, you can use tendon elasticity a lot more 593 00:29:49,477 --> 00:29:51,598 efficiently with running, walking not so much. 594 00:29:51,599 --> 00:29:55,263 You're going to land in your heel and roll through and toe 595 00:29:55,263 --> 00:29:58,618 off because it's just a lot more efficient use of energy. 596 00:29:58,619 --> 00:30:02,807 Yeah, and we see that's also a very natural use of our rocker 597 00:30:02,807 --> 00:30:06,744 profile of our foot and ankle. And you alluded to this earlier 598 00:30:06,744 --> 00:30:10,078 because you were talking about ground time and stance phase. 599 00:30:10,079 --> 00:30:12,516 And when you're walking, you're just gonna get a lot more of 600 00:30:12,516 --> 00:30:13,944 that. You're going to have a little 601 00:30:13,944 --> 00:30:15,998 bit more muscular usage. You're going to have everything 602 00:30:15,998 --> 00:30:18,102 slows down, right? Like when you're running, you 603 00:30:18,102 --> 00:30:20,278 can rely a lot more on that elasticity. 604 00:30:20,279 --> 00:30:23,038 That why you can pop off of the forefoot and it can work. 605 00:30:23,039 --> 00:30:26,411 But usually when you see it in a walking gate pattern, it usually 606 00:30:26,411 --> 00:30:29,519 implies some kind of upper motor neuron lesion most of the time. 607 00:30:29,519 --> 00:30:32,079 In English, that's usually something involving the nervous 608 00:30:32,079 --> 00:30:35,599 system, like cerebral palsy, some kind of a group of vascular 609 00:30:35,599 --> 00:30:38,159 accident, some kind of drop foot, like, something's 610 00:30:38,159 --> 00:30:41,675 impacting the ability to use that, to be honest, anterior or 611 00:30:41,675 --> 00:30:45,184 like your ability to transition off that hill because that is 612 00:30:45,184 --> 00:30:48,562 the more efficient way to go. The one exception to this is if 613 00:30:48,562 --> 00:30:51,067 you're a weirdo and you think that walking in your 4 foot 614 00:30:51,067 --> 00:30:53,355 might help your cabs hyperch you more and look better, which 615 00:30:53,355 --> 00:30:55,019 didn't work, and also that's a different problem. 616 00:30:55,019 --> 00:30:58,029 So. So in your, like, yeah, I 617 00:30:58,029 --> 00:31:01,368 definitely did that like... Was this during the minimalist 618 00:31:01,368 --> 00:31:03,419 phase? It's amazing. 619 00:31:03,420 --> 00:31:06,538 Didn't work. It was just like capped on. 620 00:31:06,539 --> 00:31:08,098 I want nicer cabs and it didn't work. 621 00:31:08,099 --> 00:31:11,628 That's so funny. I will say when most of that is 622 00:31:11,628 --> 00:31:12,959 renter anyway. What David? 623 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,924 Oh, no, I was just going to say kind of transitioning towards 624 00:31:15,924 --> 00:31:18,320 the footwear side of things. Basic consideration wise, I 625 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,639 think it is one of the reasons why. 626 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:21,479 Go for it. Yeah. 627 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,737 Just because I really appreciated that you normalize 628 00:31:24,737 --> 00:31:28,476 the fact that you heel strike. Like that is, or that, that's 629 00:31:28,476 --> 00:31:31,059 just how people walk and we don't really, you don't want to 630 00:31:31,059 --> 00:31:33,763 try to alter that. There's more debate in the 631 00:31:33,763 --> 00:31:36,060 running sphere. We've all talked about that, 632 00:31:36,060 --> 00:31:39,793 that we don't have a better in our, in our perspectives here, 633 00:31:39,793 --> 00:31:44,147 but I think the other piece that is talked about a lot in running 634 00:31:44,147 --> 00:31:47,568 that does not translate to walking is the idea of tibial 635 00:31:47,568 --> 00:31:50,162 inclination. And so like, I drew some things 636 00:31:50,162 --> 00:31:52,439 for those of you who are watching. 637 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,679 But when you're running, I can't see any of that. 638 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,785 You can't, it's better. come through for them. video. 639 00:31:58,785 --> 00:32:00,538 You think so? It'll come through. 640 00:32:00,539 --> 00:32:05,338 Maybe it's just your drawing. I'm sorry guys. 641 00:32:05,339 --> 00:32:08,639 Wow, that was, you were just razzing me the whole time? 642 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,664 No, it is kind of hard to say, but I'm sure to be better on the 643 00:32:12,664 --> 00:32:14,699 actual video, but it's fine. All right. 644 00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:17,818 So, um, there's there's a lot of conversation. 645 00:32:17,819 --> 00:32:22,499 There's research out looking at the correlation between tibial 646 00:32:22,499 --> 00:32:25,775 inclination and injuries. And so there's a lot of 647 00:32:25,775 --> 00:32:28,918 conversation about trying to be able to strike the ground closer 648 00:32:28,918 --> 00:32:32,053 underneath your body, whether it's on the heel or the forefoot 649 00:32:32,053 --> 00:32:35,473 doesn't matter, but if that shin is more straight up and down, 650 00:32:35,473 --> 00:32:38,038 that decreases some of the potential risk factors for 651 00:32:38,038 --> 00:32:40,318 higher forces that your body has to handle. 652 00:32:40,319 --> 00:32:42,899 Higher forces just means your body has to handle it and if 653 00:32:42,899 --> 00:32:44,399 they can't, then you may have injury. 654 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,667 So we talk about having a vertical shin sometimes when it 655 00:32:47,667 --> 00:32:50,038 comes to running and maybe some gate retraining. 656 00:32:50,039 --> 00:32:53,709 For walking, it is very, and that means, sorry, that means in 657 00:32:53,709 --> 00:32:56,454 running that sometimes having some knee bend at initial 658 00:32:56,454 --> 00:32:59,809 contact, like right when your foot hits the ground is normal 659 00:32:59,809 --> 00:33:01,893 and good. So maybe 20 degrees of knee 660 00:33:01,893 --> 00:33:05,423 flexion or something like that. When we get into walking, You 661 00:33:05,423 --> 00:33:10,415 don't want to try to walk in strike with 20 degrees of knee 662 00:33:10,415 --> 00:33:14,639 flexion, you want to get into full knee extension for walking. 663 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,346 That is going to be normal, having tibial inclination is not 664 00:33:17,346 --> 00:33:19,558 going to increase your risk of injury for walking. 665 00:33:19,559 --> 00:33:22,558 This is going to be your typical gait. 666 00:33:22,559 --> 00:33:26,684 So there are some things that just don't, one for one 667 00:33:26,684 --> 00:33:30,059 translate when we're looking at literature, between injury risks 668 00:33:30,059 --> 00:33:32,759 or retraining of gait. They're just not, they're not 669 00:33:32,759 --> 00:33:34,679 the same thing. They're different tasks. 670 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,957 They have different patterns and don't try to 4 foot strike as a 671 00:33:38,957 --> 00:33:42,571 walker and don't try to have vertical tibul inclination as a 672 00:33:42,571 --> 00:33:44,750 walker. Unless there's some weird, weird 673 00:33:44,750 --> 00:33:48,074 is the wrong word, but some extraneous circumstance that 674 00:33:48,074 --> 00:33:51,857 it's important to do that. But I've never I've never 675 00:33:51,857 --> 00:33:54,179 encountered that in my clinical career. 676 00:33:54,180 --> 00:33:57,080 Unless you're trying to be really sneaky, then there's only 677 00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,400 one point of contact. Yeah, there we go. 678 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,590 Because, and you have much less shock absorption, so you have 679 00:34:02,590 --> 00:34:05,780 much more control over how much pounding goes into the ground 680 00:34:05,780 --> 00:34:09,260 versus like when you land on your heel, now you have to 681 00:34:09,260 --> 00:34:11,578 control that inclination angle like you're talking about. 682 00:34:11,579 --> 00:34:13,978 May or may not wake up, whoever's next to. 683 00:34:13,980 --> 00:34:16,618 So there you go. There's the application. 684 00:34:16,619 --> 00:34:18,777 I'm coming up with something, right? 685 00:34:18,780 --> 00:34:20,818 We're grasping at straws, but I love it. 686 00:34:20,820 --> 00:34:23,980 But David, you were going to start talking about like 687 00:34:23,980 --> 00:34:26,818 characteristics of shoes that might be good for walking. 688 00:34:26,820 --> 00:34:30,297 Yeah, I think it's it's really interesting because like we talk 689 00:34:30,297 --> 00:34:34,090 about this idea of finding what works for you from a comfort 690 00:34:34,090 --> 00:34:36,839 standpoint in running. A lot of that does still 691 00:34:36,839 --> 00:34:39,538 translate to walking, but there are some basic considerations. 692 00:34:39,539 --> 00:34:44,697 And I think I'm going to start with standing over walking. 693 00:34:44,699 --> 00:34:47,801 And the reason why I'm saying this is because usually when 694 00:34:47,801 --> 00:34:50,621 we're standing and walking, you're just on your foot for 695 00:34:50,621 --> 00:34:53,158 longer periods of time versus for when you're running. 696 00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:54,658 You might slip your shoes on and go on. 697 00:34:54,659 --> 00:34:57,467 I mean, like the longest you're probably going to go is a 698 00:34:57,467 --> 00:34:59,573 marathon, if you're, unless you're running ultras, and then 699 00:34:59,573 --> 00:35:01,438 you already know what you're signing up for. 700 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,520 But most people are probably just going to go out the door 701 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,239 and run a few miles, right? And you're going to be done 702 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,195 within the hour. If you're not done within the 703 00:35:08,195 --> 00:35:10,053 hour, you'll probably be done within 90 minutes unless you're 704 00:35:10,053 --> 00:35:14,158 going on a long run. So, Not as much time. 705 00:35:14,159 --> 00:35:17,089 When you go standing and walking, you're doing all your 706 00:35:17,089 --> 00:35:19,726 day-to-day things, sometimes your shoes don't come off for 707 00:35:19,726 --> 00:35:22,618 like 8 hours or more, right? Like depending on the day. 708 00:35:22,619 --> 00:35:25,611 And so I think some basic considerations to look for is 709 00:35:25,611 --> 00:35:28,873 having a little bit of space within the shoe to allow for 710 00:35:28,873 --> 00:35:31,854 some foot, you're going to have some natural foot swelling that 711 00:35:31,854 --> 00:35:34,935 occurs throughout the day. So shoes like that, that's a 712 00:35:34,935 --> 00:35:37,259 topo aura that you're holding up, correct? 713 00:35:37,260 --> 00:35:39,658 Yeah. And then I've got the ST 6er. 714 00:35:39,659 --> 00:35:42,937 Um, very different shoes, but they still have a similar idea 715 00:35:42,937 --> 00:35:47,098 that goes on with that Topo fit, and this isn't a plug for Topo. 716 00:35:47,099 --> 00:35:49,851 There are plenty of companies that do this well, and we'll go 717 00:35:49,851 --> 00:35:52,828 into other shoes as well, but having a little bit of a wider 718 00:35:52,828 --> 00:35:55,347 forefoot, a little bit more space under, like, we call it 719 00:35:55,347 --> 00:35:57,637 volume, like the vertical amount of space between the mesh 720 00:35:57,637 --> 00:35:59,698 material and the foot bed that you're standing on. 721 00:35:59,699 --> 00:36:02,652 Having a little bit of space there. to help accommodate some 722 00:36:02,652 --> 00:36:05,418 of that swelling can be a good thing and having just a little 723 00:36:05,418 --> 00:36:08,508 bit of width up front. Now that can come with a high 724 00:36:08,508 --> 00:36:11,109 stack shoe, low stack shoe, stiff shoe, flexible shoe, 725 00:36:11,109 --> 00:36:13,250 right? Like all of these components can 726 00:36:13,250 --> 00:36:15,124 vary. But that's one base thing that I 727 00:36:15,124 --> 00:36:18,246 tend to look for, and I tend to agree with when I look at 728 00:36:18,246 --> 00:36:19,138 standing and walking specifically. 729 00:36:19,139 --> 00:36:22,229 And like that can still translate to running, but I 730 00:36:22,229 --> 00:36:25,318 think it is almost all the more prevalent in walking. 731 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,388 And that's when you start to see people where their feet do start 732 00:36:28,388 --> 00:36:30,984 to swell throughout the day, and certain shoes start to squeeze 733 00:36:30,984 --> 00:36:33,808 their foot and their ankles or their toes, and they like, they 734 00:36:33,808 --> 00:36:36,299 start to not like those shoes. And they're like, I don't know 735 00:36:36,299 --> 00:36:37,978 what it is. I wear this for half the day. 736 00:36:37,980 --> 00:36:40,440 It feels great. And then at a certain point, it 737 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,838 just, my feet hurt the rest of the day, right? 738 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,198 And I'm fine until that point. And if you went running, you 739 00:36:45,198 --> 00:36:47,416 might have never noticed it. So that could be one pretty 740 00:36:47,416 --> 00:36:50,078 clear delineation between the 2 is just you're going to have 741 00:36:50,078 --> 00:36:52,498 your shoes on for a much longer period of time. 742 00:36:52,500 --> 00:36:57,165 Also, with that said, When you are walking and standing, you 743 00:36:57,165 --> 00:37:00,736 have a lot more time on your feet from a literal standpoint, 744 00:37:00,736 --> 00:37:02,518 that stance phase when you're walking. 745 00:37:02,519 --> 00:37:04,829 You have 2 feet on the ground sometimes, like Klein was 746 00:37:04,829 --> 00:37:06,677 saying. I think it's one of the reasons 747 00:37:06,677 --> 00:37:09,251 why some people do tend to like stability shoes for walking 748 00:37:09,251 --> 00:37:11,591 versus running, where maybe it's too much running, but they 749 00:37:11,591 --> 00:37:14,399 actually like it for walking and standing, and it helps give them 750 00:37:14,399 --> 00:37:16,498 a little bit of extra support throughout the day. 751 00:37:16,500 --> 00:37:19,727 Not a plug for stability issues, just an extra consideration that 752 00:37:19,727 --> 00:37:21,778 some people tend to respond well to. 753 00:37:21,780 --> 00:37:23,936 And you hear that sometimes where they're like, oh, I love 754 00:37:23,936 --> 00:37:26,278 it for standing and walking, but I just can't run in them. 755 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,720 Right? And there's basic considerations 756 00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:31,198 that can change over that time period. 757 00:37:31,199 --> 00:37:33,898 But you do got to find what works for you. 758 00:37:33,900 --> 00:37:36,225 And that might change depending on how much time you're in the 759 00:37:36,225 --> 00:37:38,668 shoes. So I have a couple that I have 760 00:37:38,668 --> 00:37:42,602 right here next to me and it's in no particular order as far as 761 00:37:42,602 --> 00:37:46,255 what I like personally, like or if I'm ranking them from one to 762 00:37:46,255 --> 00:37:49,338 5 or whatever, but you have your more flexible on minimal 763 00:37:49,338 --> 00:37:50,444 designs. And this is probably something 764 00:37:50,444 --> 00:37:52,754 if I know I'm going to be on carpet throughout the day in my 765 00:37:52,754 --> 00:37:55,069 clinic. This is the 0 nexus knit, very 766 00:37:55,069 --> 00:37:58,138 flexible, low to the ground, but it's a spacious upper. 767 00:37:58,139 --> 00:37:59,038 Surprising. Yeah. 768 00:37:59,039 --> 00:38:02,133 Great for standing and walking. However, if I'm on concrete all 769 00:38:02,133 --> 00:38:04,583 day, this might actually be kind of hard on my feet, I might not 770 00:38:04,583 --> 00:38:07,214 like it as much, right? So there's give and take to 771 00:38:07,214 --> 00:38:09,300 these concepts. And you also have to have 772 00:38:09,300 --> 00:38:12,049 available range of motion, you know, at your toes, at your 773 00:38:12,049 --> 00:38:13,728 ankle. Like, you're going to be going 774 00:38:13,728 --> 00:38:16,346 through larger ranges of motion in these types of shoes, topo 775 00:38:16,346 --> 00:38:18,958 SC6, very similar concept, a little bit more foam on it. 776 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,726 But, There's other ones out there that have a little bit 777 00:38:22,726 --> 00:38:24,778 more foam and padding underneath them. 778 00:38:24,780 --> 00:38:27,058 So I have the Nike structure plus here that I have with me. 779 00:38:27,059 --> 00:38:29,458 And running, it felt like a little bit much. 780 00:38:29,460 --> 00:38:32,158 I think shoe wise for me. It was a nice shoe. 781 00:38:32,159 --> 00:38:34,374 I think there's just other ones I like more, but standing and 782 00:38:34,374 --> 00:38:35,278 walking. I love this shoe. 783 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,572 Yeah, it's great, you know, and you have that EVA and casing, 784 00:38:38,572 --> 00:38:41,038 the Zoom X foam in the middle of it. 785 00:38:41,039 --> 00:38:43,739 You have a soft underfoot feel, but a structured feel 786 00:38:43,739 --> 00:38:45,358 throughout, wide base under your foot. 787 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,558 Like it's a sturdy, reliable platform that you can stand and 788 00:38:48,558 --> 00:38:51,499 walk from. Another one that I feel like 789 00:38:51,499 --> 00:38:54,079 translated to walking. I'm just going to keep going to 790 00:38:54,079 --> 00:38:56,508 just annoy. No, I'm just, I'm honestly, I'm 791 00:38:56,508 --> 00:38:59,544 honestly, I'm honestly just annoyed that the structure plus 792 00:38:59,544 --> 00:39:03,588 I was so hopeful that would be the faster stability shoot and 793 00:39:03,588 --> 00:39:06,958 it was just heavier and a far better walking shoe. 794 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,857 And I was like, yeah. Yeah, but great. 795 00:39:09,857 --> 00:39:12,398 It really is, actually. yeah. Yeah. 796 00:39:12,398 --> 00:39:16,815 And then another one is the on Cloud Runner 3. should be called 797 00:39:16,815 --> 00:39:19,918 the out should be called the on cloud walker. 798 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:24,549 Amazing walking shoe, right? Moderate stability on your foot, 799 00:39:24,549 --> 00:39:27,449 firmer base, but it's still cushioned enough to hold you 800 00:39:27,449 --> 00:39:30,637 throughout the day, great upper, checks all the boxes we talked 801 00:39:30,637 --> 00:39:33,238 about just or that I talked about just now. 802 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,629 It's great, you know? And again, now I'm looking at 803 00:39:36,629 --> 00:39:39,778 this more from the lens of walking purely right now. 804 00:39:39,780 --> 00:39:42,518 Now, if you're looking to have something that translates 805 00:39:42,518 --> 00:39:46,166 walking and running in the same shoe, you got to start bridging 806 00:39:46,166 --> 00:39:48,598 some gaps and in preparation for this podcast. 807 00:39:48,599 --> 00:39:51,719 I did not actually grab some of those because I focus more on 808 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,152 the purely walking. But when I look at some of those 809 00:39:54,152 --> 00:39:56,932 shoes, I think of shoes actually kind of like the sock and you 810 00:39:56,932 --> 00:39:58,494 ride 19. It's a shoe that can walk and 811 00:39:58,494 --> 00:40:00,780 run pretty well. Another one is the regular on 812 00:40:00,780 --> 00:40:04,380 Cloud Monster 3, not the hyper version, but that one's a great 813 00:40:04,380 --> 00:40:06,478 standing walking, but it can also run. 814 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,280 Now it's a little bit heavier. There's probably other shoes I'd 815 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,128 choose to, if I'm purely running over it, but if I'm doing all 816 00:40:13,128 --> 00:40:15,200 three, standing, walking, running, you know, whatever 817 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:16,678 commuting, like that shoe's great. 818 00:40:16,679 --> 00:40:18,778 It's a solid shoe to do all of them. 819 00:40:18,780 --> 00:40:21,964 The Asics, Nimbus, the Caiano, like those are also solid 820 00:40:21,964 --> 00:40:25,000 options as well. And then if we're talking pure 821 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:26,638 walking as well. Sorry, guys. 822 00:40:26,639 --> 00:40:29,578 I'm just rambling on here. But I have a couple. 823 00:40:29,579 --> 00:40:32,569 My favorite hiking shoe as of late has been the Topa Terra 824 00:40:32,569 --> 00:40:33,620 venture. So good. 825 00:40:33,620 --> 00:40:36,778 Um, Terametric 5, right? Yeah, phenomenal. 826 00:40:36,780 --> 00:40:40,079 Moderate stack height. It's like got some stiffness, 827 00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:43,079 but it still has enough flexibility that if you're going 828 00:40:43,079 --> 00:40:46,079 into any climbs, you can still dig into the ground. 829 00:40:46,079 --> 00:40:48,778 Vieber megrip outsole, excellent upper, locks down really well. 830 00:40:48,780 --> 00:40:51,058 It's just got, it's it's just in the middle. 831 00:40:51,059 --> 00:40:53,038 It doesn't feel like it's too much in any category. 832 00:40:53,039 --> 00:40:56,578 But again, this is not like a crazy rocker platform. 833 00:40:56,579 --> 00:40:59,439 It kind of lets your foot do what it's doing, but it checks 834 00:40:59,439 --> 00:41:01,859 those boxes we talked about earlier, where I got a little 835 00:41:01,859 --> 00:41:03,178 bit more space throughout the upper. 836 00:41:03,179 --> 00:41:06,889 I have a natural feeling platform under my foot, rips 837 00:41:06,889 --> 00:41:08,610 well. And then the road component to 838 00:41:08,610 --> 00:41:10,860 that would be something like the Hoka transport, and that's 839 00:41:10,860 --> 00:41:13,110 something that I've done really well with standing and walking 840 00:41:13,110 --> 00:41:15,071 as well. And then they even have the kind 841 00:41:15,071 --> 00:41:17,447 of the laces that allow you to have some swelling accommodation 842 00:41:17,447 --> 00:41:20,038 in there too, where they can have a little bit of stretch. 843 00:41:20,039 --> 00:41:22,318 So, these are more purely walking. 844 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,178 I know I kind of went back and forth there. 845 00:41:24,179 --> 00:41:29,019 I went from walking to walking and running to walking and 846 00:41:29,019 --> 00:41:31,018 hiking. So sorry about that. 847 00:41:31,019 --> 00:41:33,634 That was a roundabout way of saying some of the shoes that I 848 00:41:33,634 --> 00:41:35,591 like for those purposes. That's not an all-inclusive 849 00:41:35,591 --> 00:41:36,800 list. You know, there's definitely 850 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,100 more things out there, but those are some basic considerations 851 00:41:39,100 --> 00:41:41,684 that I look for. Footwear wise when I'm looking 852 00:41:41,684 --> 00:41:46,338 uh, walking and the goal of what I'm trying to do and kind of 853 00:41:46,338 --> 00:41:49,265 what I'm looking for personally. And yeah, that can change 854 00:41:49,265 --> 00:41:51,538 depending on the footing, how long I'm on it. 855 00:41:51,539 --> 00:41:53,630 Am I at Disneyland? I, I, the clinic, like, 856 00:41:53,630 --> 00:41:56,010 whatever, like, I say that because Disneyland is a place 857 00:41:56,010 --> 00:41:58,381 where you're going to be standing for 10 plus hours, 858 00:41:58,381 --> 00:42:00,418 right? So, totally. 859 00:42:00,420 --> 00:42:03,274 Matt, do you have other characteristics of shoes that 860 00:42:03,274 --> 00:42:07,078 you think are important to think about when it comes to walking? 861 00:42:07,079 --> 00:42:11,291 One of the major things, there's a lot of running shoes that will 862 00:42:11,291 --> 00:42:14,531 work phenomenally for walking, and we should also point out 863 00:42:14,531 --> 00:42:17,771 that based on current sales data, that the majority of 864 00:42:17,771 --> 00:42:21,009 running shoes sold the United States are actually sold for 865 00:42:21,009 --> 00:42:23,916 people using them for walking and running, walking in 866 00:42:23,916 --> 00:42:27,146 standing, not for running, running as runners, we were kind 867 00:42:27,146 --> 00:42:29,338 of a small part. We don't want to admit this. 868 00:42:29,340 --> 00:42:31,858 We're a small population of the overall market. 869 00:42:31,860 --> 00:42:35,786 So, um, you know, I I get upset, some company's like, oh, this 870 00:42:35,786 --> 00:42:39,108 shoe's not responsive, and I'm sitting there like, I know why 871 00:42:39,108 --> 00:42:41,518 because you're the who the population designing for. 872 00:42:41,519 --> 00:42:42,718 It's gonna work very well for them. 873 00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,121 So one of the things you're going to need to look for is you 874 00:42:46,121 --> 00:42:48,058 do not want super shoes for walking, okay? 875 00:42:48,059 --> 00:42:52,078 Super soft, bouncy foams, carbon, all that stuff. 876 00:42:52,079 --> 00:42:54,329 You don't want that. They are not designed for 877 00:42:54,329 --> 00:42:55,655 walking. They're not designed for 878 00:42:55,655 --> 00:42:57,376 standing. They're designed for going at 879 00:42:57,376 --> 00:42:58,858 faster speeds. So that is part of it. 880 00:42:58,860 --> 00:43:02,881 On the opposite end of that. A lot of times some of the 881 00:43:02,881 --> 00:43:05,158 firmer shoes actually do better for walking. 882 00:43:05,159 --> 00:43:07,463 That's not always the case. There's some people that like a 883 00:43:07,463 --> 00:43:09,996 little bit more softness. But Brooks is a really great 884 00:43:09,996 --> 00:43:13,142 example of this where like the Brooks adrenaline, like, but I 885 00:43:13,142 --> 00:43:16,288 did not enjoy running in this just because not the most 886 00:43:16,288 --> 00:43:18,738 responsive soul. It's more of a grounded, like 887 00:43:18,738 --> 00:43:21,238 kind of feel, but walking, man, it's great. 888 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,578 I totally understand why this sells so much. 889 00:43:23,579 --> 00:43:26,303 It's very comfortable. It's got, they've done a better 890 00:43:26,303 --> 00:43:29,460 job with the bevel. It's, it feels just a tad 891 00:43:29,460 --> 00:43:32,430 softball, walking, where it's just enough that doesn't feel 892 00:43:32,430 --> 00:43:34,498 mushy. That design makes sense. 893 00:43:34,500 --> 00:43:35,938 It's same thing with the glycerin. 894 00:43:35,940 --> 00:43:39,118 I did not like the glycerin this year, but walking feels great. 895 00:43:39,119 --> 00:43:41,594 Although, Nathan, I might just need to settle and accept that 896 00:43:41,594 --> 00:43:45,000 I'm a size 10.5 . in Brooks. I might just need to deal with 897 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:46,678 this now. This has been 2 years. 898 00:43:46,679 --> 00:43:50,425 I feel I'm on the edge too. I feel like I'm going on for 2 899 00:43:50,425 --> 00:43:52,393 years. So yeah, a lot of times you're 900 00:43:52,393 --> 00:43:55,297 not going to want, you're not going to want a responsive shoe 901 00:43:55,297 --> 00:43:57,716 for, unless you're doing race walking, which again is a 902 00:43:57,716 --> 00:43:59,585 different situation. But for walking, you're going to 903 00:43:59,585 --> 00:44:01,198 want a more kind of grounded feel. 904 00:44:01,199 --> 00:44:03,927 Yes, sometimes some people love maximal shoes for walking, but a 905 00:44:03,927 --> 00:44:07,146 lot of people are going to be able to get away with more 906 00:44:07,146 --> 00:44:09,616 moderate and low stack height shoes in walking because you 907 00:44:09,616 --> 00:44:11,098 don't necessarily need as much cushion. 908 00:44:11,099 --> 00:44:14,089 You got more, you don't have as much forces that you're dealing 909 00:44:14,089 --> 00:44:16,104 with. The only reason you want to hire 910 00:44:16,104 --> 00:44:18,624 sackite shoe is like David Benshu, you're trying to replace 911 00:44:18,624 --> 00:44:21,648 maybe some of the rock, the rockers of the foot and ankle, 912 00:44:21,648 --> 00:44:25,176 like to have a larger heel level to help you roll forward or what 913 00:44:25,176 --> 00:44:26,886 have you. But you can get away with more 914 00:44:26,886 --> 00:44:28,649 stuff. You don't need as extreme 915 00:44:28,649 --> 00:44:32,141 geometries as you ought as you might that might work during 916 00:44:32,141 --> 00:44:33,538 running. It's another great option. 917 00:44:33,539 --> 00:44:35,158 This is why Topo works very well. 918 00:44:35,159 --> 00:44:38,459 Gosh, when I was in Corvallis, I saw topos everywhere and I'm 919 00:44:38,459 --> 00:44:41,209 like, yeah, this is definitely a Northwest town, but they're 920 00:44:41,209 --> 00:44:43,159 doing well. People like them for the 921 00:44:43,159 --> 00:44:44,818 outdoors. They're comfortable for walking. 922 00:44:44,820 --> 00:44:46,858 They're not the bounciest shoes for running. 923 00:44:46,860 --> 00:44:50,938 What happened? They're a Boston company. 924 00:44:50,940 --> 00:44:55,943 No, I no, sorry. did I say? Okay, like, well, because it's a 925 00:44:55,943 --> 00:44:58,198 Northwest... No, it's not. 926 00:44:58,199 --> 00:44:59,878 That's not what I, that's not what I meant. 927 00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:03,412 It's just, I feel like people in Oregon are going to always 928 00:45:03,412 --> 00:45:06,058 gravitate to a wider toe box kind of shoot. 929 00:45:06,059 --> 00:45:08,458 We're all hippies here. Yeah, it's funny. 930 00:45:08,460 --> 00:45:12,191 It's funny because I think I said it on the podcast at some 931 00:45:12,191 --> 00:45:14,599 point. You did. that that Topos in 932 00:45:14,599 --> 00:45:16,018 common. No, no. know that. 933 00:45:16,019 --> 00:45:20,518 They're basically, I get that. But it's just... 934 00:45:20,519 --> 00:45:22,378 Oh, oh, no, I mean, yeah, Boston, sorry. 935 00:45:22,380 --> 00:45:24,718 Sorry. Sorry, Russ. 936 00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:31,558 See, oh, man. Maybe this moment. 937 00:45:31,559 --> 00:45:32,818 I think we all needed this moment. 938 00:45:32,820 --> 00:45:37,857 For us and for everyone, Topo Athletics is based in Boston, 939 00:45:37,857 --> 00:45:43,341 and they have a vibe that is very consistent with the Pacific 940 00:45:43,341 --> 00:45:45,838 Northwest. I think that's... 941 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:53,742 Like, they are located. Yeah, that's what I meant. 942 00:45:53,742 --> 00:45:56,894 Like, what? Yeah, it lines up with the 943 00:45:56,894 --> 00:45:59,107 Pacific North. Yeah, so they vibe they vibe 944 00:45:59,107 --> 00:46:02,088 there. And I also need to say this, 945 00:46:02,088 --> 00:46:06,312 because I hear it coming already, I know that Colorado is 946 00:46:06,312 --> 00:46:10,152 not the Pacific Northwest, because that was, but I think 947 00:46:10,152 --> 00:46:12,840 I'm calling what Matt was talking about. 948 00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:17,458 Pacific Northwest is topo vibes. They're based in Boston. 949 00:46:17,460 --> 00:46:20,578 And we're all going to be okay. I think. 950 00:46:20,579 --> 00:46:23,629 So, yeah, typically a little firmer, less responsive, kind of 951 00:46:23,629 --> 00:46:26,679 more grounded, mid-souls, and again, a lot, usually people can 952 00:46:26,679 --> 00:46:30,339 handle a lot more variety with stack heights and just be, and 953 00:46:30,339 --> 00:46:33,389 it just depends on more the geometry rather than cushioning, 954 00:46:33,389 --> 00:46:35,218 even though we know more cushioning. 955 00:46:35,219 --> 00:46:38,027 It doesn't actually provide more cushioning actually based on 956 00:46:38,027 --> 00:46:39,845 biomechanics. But David also hit that on the 957 00:46:39,845 --> 00:46:42,206 head, especially for those of us that are healthcare workers or 958 00:46:42,206 --> 00:46:43,918 work in retail on other feet all day. 959 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,128 A lot of people like additional art support. 960 00:46:46,128 --> 00:46:49,713 And for years, people would just put an insol in and a reminder 961 00:46:49,713 --> 00:46:52,463 that most companies don't design their shoes with insoles in 962 00:46:52,463 --> 00:46:54,203 mind. They design it with the, like, 963 00:46:54,203 --> 00:46:56,643 the footbed that's already coming in there with the custom, 964 00:46:56,643 --> 00:46:59,327 they're not the custom, but the, the stock insult that's already 965 00:46:59,327 --> 00:47:02,411 coming in there. So a lot of, there's a lot of 966 00:47:02,411 --> 00:47:05,057 great stability shoes out there, whether it's the Brooks 967 00:47:05,057 --> 00:47:07,997 adrenaline, the Tobo Aura, the Asex Kiana, which, again, is 968 00:47:07,997 --> 00:47:12,113 saw, is going to be soft in a lot of the other options out 969 00:47:12,113 --> 00:47:15,528 there, that there's a reason why Brooks glycerin. a reason why a 970 00:47:15,528 --> 00:47:18,999 lot of these shoes are very common to see on the people on 971 00:47:18,999 --> 00:47:22,203 the feet of people that work in those jobs, especially as David 972 00:47:22,203 --> 00:47:24,870 mentioned, like, if you're on concrete or like hard floral 973 00:47:24,870 --> 00:47:27,796 day, and I'll say this to somebody that did this, having 974 00:47:27,796 --> 00:47:30,456 worked in clinics, hospitals, like, man, I love minimal shoes, 975 00:47:30,456 --> 00:47:34,180 but man, being on those hard floors all day, that it can be a 976 00:47:34,180 --> 00:47:36,564 little rough, right? So that's why maybe a little 977 00:47:36,564 --> 00:47:39,460 cushioning can work better for some people, but it's going to 978 00:47:39,460 --> 00:47:42,787 be very unique to each person. So that was a lot of 979 00:47:42,787 --> 00:47:45,238 information. Here's my next question. 980 00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:48,095 No, that was perfect. I think another question I have 981 00:47:48,095 --> 00:47:53,135 for y'all is a feature of shoes that we talk about a lot when it 982 00:47:53,135 --> 00:47:56,158 comes to running, particularly Matt, is the heel bevel. 983 00:47:56,159 --> 00:48:00,268 How do you think there are differences or similarities in 984 00:48:00,268 --> 00:48:03,548 heel bevel requirements for walking shoes versus running 985 00:48:03,548 --> 00:48:05,450 shoes? I think it's a great example why 986 00:48:05,450 --> 00:48:07,952 the Mazuna Wave Horizon. I didn't even get to say go off 987 00:48:07,952 --> 00:48:09,418 king. I was planning on saying that. 988 00:48:09,420 --> 00:48:12,984 He just beat into it. We talk about the lot because 989 00:48:12,984 --> 00:48:15,718 again, most runners are going to be heel strikers, okay? 990 00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:17,158 And so there's a lot more forces. 991 00:48:17,159 --> 00:48:19,518 The heel rocker needs to be emphasized a little bit, 992 00:48:19,518 --> 00:48:21,944 especially with taller shoes. You don't need that as much 993 00:48:21,944 --> 00:48:24,267 during walking. It is helpful for a lot of 994 00:48:24,267 --> 00:48:27,138 people, but you can definitely get away with not having as 995 00:48:27,138 --> 00:48:29,998 large of a one in walking because there's less forces, and 996 00:48:29,998 --> 00:48:31,558 there's less forces to deal with. 997 00:48:31,559 --> 00:48:33,764 So you can get away with it. That's why there's, you know, 998 00:48:33,764 --> 00:48:36,238 vans can do well, even though vans used to be minimal. 999 00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,154 Now I'm seeing like moderate stack height vans, and I was 1000 00:48:39,154 --> 00:48:42,334 like, they got some like chuck. Yeah, I was like, active wear, 1001 00:48:42,334 --> 00:48:43,918 where it actually has like, yeah. 1002 00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,728 But like the post-year flair is still not great, but like you 1003 00:48:46,728 --> 00:48:49,766 don't need as big of a bevel because there's just not as much 1004 00:48:49,766 --> 00:48:52,199 many forces going on. inclination angles not going to 1005 00:48:52,199 --> 00:48:55,780 be as high frequently. So, you know, it's it's not the 1006 00:48:55,780 --> 00:48:59,509 geometry doesn't have to be as extreme unless you have deficits 1007 00:48:59,509 --> 00:49:03,238 or things that need to be that that needs to replace. 1008 00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:06,794 But no, you don't need a source. We'll jump to that in a little 1009 00:49:06,794 --> 00:49:09,130 bit. I think we want to go through 1010 00:49:09,130 --> 00:49:12,058 some conditions and kind of what you might think about. 1011 00:49:12,059 --> 00:49:14,759 I want to throw this question by you now too. 1012 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:22,008 If you had to say 3 companies that, just if that, if you were 1013 00:49:22,008 --> 00:49:27,178 to say at large, their shoes are good for walking. 1014 00:49:27,179 --> 00:49:36,838 What 3 companies would you pick? Notice how it all gets silent. 1015 00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,427 I thought I went 1st last day, but I was trying to be 1016 00:49:39,427 --> 00:49:42,644 respectful and let you go first. I wasn't even looking at the 1017 00:49:42,644 --> 00:49:45,178 screen, fam. was just like trying to think about this. 1018 00:49:45,179 --> 00:49:51,089 I mean, the 1st 2 that come to mind, and I say this with some 1019 00:49:51,089 --> 00:49:54,238 level of reservation because they've changed their up. 1020 00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:57,354 They used to be pretty narrow. They've gotten better over the 1021 00:49:57,354 --> 00:50:00,072 years, but a lot of people do like hokos for standing and 1022 00:50:00,072 --> 00:50:01,680 walking. That's one that has done well 1023 00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:05,111 over the years for many people. I think Topo Athletic does an 1024 00:50:05,111 --> 00:50:07,498 excellent job of standing and walking shoes. 1025 00:50:07,500 --> 00:50:09,718 I'm seeing them more and more in Santa Barbara as well. 1026 00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:15,420 Um, and then it's hard. Yeah, you know, it's it's very, 1027 00:50:15,420 --> 00:50:19,673 it rains all the time here. We have rainforests and all of 1028 00:50:19,673 --> 00:50:23,854 our trails are muddy all of the time and, you know, there's 1029 00:50:23,854 --> 00:50:27,478 redwoods galore everywhere. No, not Santa Barbara at all. 1030 00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:30,400 But actually, we do have some technical trails, though, like 1031 00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:34,192 that, we do have plenty of super rocky, like, like, you've got to 1032 00:50:34,192 --> 00:50:35,938 scramble on some of those things. 1033 00:50:35,940 --> 00:50:40,228 Um, those do exist out here. So for the, for what it's worth, 1034 00:50:40,228 --> 00:50:43,088 there are, there is some for beavermegric, but David always 1035 00:50:43,088 --> 00:50:46,339 has a need to defend. He always has to defend his West 1036 00:50:46,339 --> 00:50:47,458 Coast trails. Always. 1037 00:50:47,460 --> 00:50:50,970 He just has this inner need. Well, we have runnable ones, but 1038 00:50:50,970 --> 00:50:52,558 there are some really technical ones. 1039 00:50:52,559 --> 00:50:53,698 I mean, you guys should come out. 1040 00:50:53,699 --> 00:50:56,999 We'll all do 9 trails together 35 miles through our front 1041 00:50:56,999 --> 00:50:58,378 country. Just happened this last weekend. 1042 00:50:58,380 --> 00:51:00,058 So shout out to all the finishers for that. 1043 00:51:00,059 --> 00:51:02,878 Can I do 4 trails instead, so I don't have to run that far? 1044 00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,058 There's a half? Yeah, you could run the half. 1045 00:51:06,059 --> 00:51:10,766 It's like 17, but half being half of the race, not half 1046 00:51:10,766 --> 00:51:12,598 marathon. Yeah. 1047 00:51:12,599 --> 00:51:17,900 Sorry, what else you got? I think I'm torn between on and 1048 00:51:17,900 --> 00:51:23,488 Brooks for the last one. Uh, on has done a really good 1049 00:51:23,488 --> 00:51:27,898 job, I think, of making some standing walking caliber shoes. 1050 00:51:27,900 --> 00:51:31,198 They also tend to do pretty well from a lifestyle standpoint. 1051 00:51:31,199 --> 00:51:33,539 I think for a lot of people. So you see them on a lot of 1052 00:51:33,539 --> 00:51:35,770 people's feet. But Brooks has also done a good 1053 00:51:35,770 --> 00:51:38,905 job over the years. And I was almost going to say 1054 00:51:38,905 --> 00:51:41,854 quietly, but not really because they've been around forever on 1055 00:51:41,854 --> 00:51:43,618 hospital floors and things like that. 1056 00:51:43,619 --> 00:51:46,738 Like, that's a hard one. I'm just going to go those four. 1057 00:51:46,739 --> 00:51:49,018 That's me, that's me cheating. What do you think, Matt? 1058 00:51:49,019 --> 00:51:52,918 I'm actually going to choose the same ones, but in a different 1059 00:51:52,918 --> 00:51:55,834 order where I think, like, Brooks, Topo, definitely, like, 1060 00:51:55,834 --> 00:51:59,398 they've been like, Brooks has been around for a long time. 1061 00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,627 They know their stuff. They just work really hard on 1062 00:52:01,627 --> 00:52:03,438 this. Topo is crushing it, where like 1063 00:52:03,438 --> 00:52:06,856 that's where I see the most is like, it doesn't matter where I 1064 00:52:06,856 --> 00:52:09,476 am, and I'm getting the opportunity to travel over the 1065 00:52:09,476 --> 00:52:12,096 country right now, and I'm just like, I'm seeing this 1066 00:52:12,096 --> 00:52:13,378 everywhere. So it's interesting. 1067 00:52:13,380 --> 00:52:17,470 And I feel like the 3rd spot is a similar tie between Hoka and 1068 00:52:17,470 --> 00:52:21,266 on that have both done a really good job where like both, again, 1069 00:52:21,266 --> 00:52:23,894 Hoka's got more cushioning, not the softest shoes frequently, 1070 00:52:23,894 --> 00:52:27,398 and just more of that geometry that people kind of like that 1071 00:52:27,398 --> 00:52:30,370 rocker ride that rules along. And then on does something 1072 00:52:30,370 --> 00:52:33,692 somewhat similar without being as maximal where a lot of times 1073 00:52:33,692 --> 00:52:37,011 for running, and obviously this is now wrong with the cloud 1074 00:52:37,011 --> 00:52:39,118 monster 3 hyper and the hyper LS. 1075 00:52:39,119 --> 00:52:42,616 Um, but a lot of their shoes just are so firm that they don't 1076 00:52:42,616 --> 00:52:44,857 typically shot, they don't create that bouncer shock as 1077 00:52:44,857 --> 00:52:47,098 much as you might like for running for walking. 1078 00:52:47,099 --> 00:52:50,078 There's a reason they're really popular and it's just a kind of 1079 00:52:50,078 --> 00:52:52,558 a lot of them have a more moderate stack height. 1080 00:52:52,559 --> 00:52:55,798 They're a little bit lighter. They roll really nicely. 1081 00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:59,024 And so I think those, I know I just did forward, you said 1082 00:52:59,024 --> 00:53:02,244 three, but those 2 are, I think, are pretty tied, um, right now, 1083 00:53:02,244 --> 00:53:05,702 and they're all, all 4 of them are really up there and you see 1084 00:53:05,702 --> 00:53:07,678 them a lot. And there's a good reason. 1085 00:53:07,679 --> 00:53:11,039 It's funny. I had mine written down before. 1086 00:53:11,039 --> 00:53:15,299 Y'all started talking and I had those 4 as well. in my 1087 00:53:15,299 --> 00:53:17,160 conversation. There was there was one more 1088 00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,918 that I had on my list as a 5th and that's Ultra. 1089 00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:24,420 I think that they is as long as they're fit is what it has been 1090 00:53:24,420 --> 00:53:28,620 this year and what it was like 3 years ago where it had more 1091 00:53:28,620 --> 00:53:31,619 volume, particular that that transitioned from the mid to 4 1092 00:53:31,619 --> 00:53:34,097 foot. I think that they, they check a 1093 00:53:34,097 --> 00:53:38,158 lot of those boxes. If you can handle 0 drop. 1094 00:53:38,159 --> 00:53:40,996 Yes. And they have the 4 millimeters 1095 00:53:40,996 --> 00:53:42,898 now. So it is a little different. 1096 00:53:42,900 --> 00:53:45,636 There's more in the conversation, but I think that's 1097 00:53:45,636 --> 00:53:48,676 why they were like fifth. I felt personally, Ultra's done 1098 00:53:48,676 --> 00:53:52,324 a great job moving into the running game because a lot of 1099 00:53:52,324 --> 00:53:55,364 their mitzals have gotten softer and bouncier, which then have 1100 00:53:55,364 --> 00:53:59,012 also made, in my opinion, a little bit just a little less 1101 00:53:59,012 --> 00:54:02,052 comfortable for walking because they've been a little bit too 1102 00:54:02,052 --> 00:54:05,089 soft, but that's just my opinion, where that's kind of 1103 00:54:05,089 --> 00:54:08,278 where Toko is. I love the Ford via. 1104 00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:11,119 Yeah, no, during CSM. This year I wore that all week 1105 00:54:11,119 --> 00:54:13,918 and was on my feet all day long. I thought it was great for that. 1106 00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:16,324 And that's one of those 4 millimeter drop shoes, which for 1107 00:54:16,324 --> 00:54:17,938 me works out. Yeah, before would be as good. 1108 00:54:17,940 --> 00:54:20,554 Flow ST. Okay, is the lightest stability 1109 00:54:20,554 --> 00:54:23,218 shoe on the market. Wow. 1110 00:54:23,219 --> 00:54:26,700 It is 81 ounces. Wow, it's pretty nice. 1111 00:54:26,700 --> 00:54:31,877 Pretty hard to beat. So what I want to do now is, a 1112 00:54:31,877 --> 00:54:35,670 relatively brief conversation about some of the more common, 1113 00:54:35,670 --> 00:54:40,301 um, injuries or pain syndromes that people might have and what 1114 00:54:40,301 --> 00:54:44,511 sort of considerations you might make for footwear, knowing that 1115 00:54:44,511 --> 00:54:48,995 this is not a, an easy answer. Any of these conditions we're 1116 00:54:48,995 --> 00:54:53,284 going to talk about, um, are going to have a lot more to the 1117 00:54:53,284 --> 00:54:56,038 pie that makes up being healthy and getting better. 1118 00:54:56,039 --> 00:54:58,374 But I think there are some shoe considerations, particularly for 1119 00:54:58,374 --> 00:55:00,238 a few that I'm going to bring up. 1120 00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:05,559 The 3 that I think we can talk about when it comes to walking 1121 00:55:05,559 --> 00:55:07,078 are Achilles' tenenopathy, insertional. 1122 00:55:07,079 --> 00:55:09,903 Maybe we can particularly talk about insertional Achilles 1123 00:55:09,903 --> 00:55:13,078 tenenopathy, which is where the Achilles is irritated, right? 1124 00:55:13,079 --> 00:55:16,858 Is it inserts into the bone, then planner fascia pain? 1125 00:55:16,860 --> 00:55:20,098 And then the 3rd being Alex rigidous. 1126 00:55:20,099 --> 00:55:27,908 So what sort of considerations do you have for those kind of 1127 00:55:27,908 --> 00:55:30,298 conditions? Yeah, do you want to go first? 1128 00:55:30,300 --> 00:55:32,698 Now they're playing chicken with each other? 1129 00:55:32,699 --> 00:55:33,958 I can. I know. 1130 00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:35,878 Now we're both looking at each other. 1131 00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:40,234 Um, yeah, I think you got to look at what those structures do 1132 00:55:40,234 --> 00:55:42,238 and what can irritate them first. 1133 00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:46,298 Um, when you're looking at how it's rigidous, it's in the name, 1134 00:55:46,298 --> 00:55:49,678 you got some stiffness up front, through the Hallux Pichetto. 1135 00:55:49,679 --> 00:55:52,451 And if it's having a hard time extending one of the 1136 00:55:52,451 --> 00:55:54,711 considerations, it's the same thing when you're looking at 1137 00:55:54,711 --> 00:55:57,974 running for this one, you want to make sure it doesn't jam you 1138 00:55:57,974 --> 00:56:00,622 into too much extensions. You want to be careful with toe 1139 00:56:00,622 --> 00:56:03,107 spring, meaning that angle. And now this is different from 1140 00:56:03,107 --> 00:56:05,579 the forefoot rocker, right? Like, you can still have a 1141 00:56:05,579 --> 00:56:07,978 rounding, but have the foot bed be still relatively level. 1142 00:56:07,980 --> 00:56:11,110 It's when that you get wedging, essentially, from the front side 1143 00:56:11,110 --> 00:56:14,518 of the shoe, kind of pushing the toes up a little bit. 1144 00:56:14,519 --> 00:56:16,858 That's going be something you're going to want to avoid. 1145 00:56:16,860 --> 00:56:19,900 Some of that will be subjective just putting the shoes on and 1146 00:56:19,900 --> 00:56:21,418 seeing if you get that sensation. 1147 00:56:21,420 --> 00:56:24,328 If it feels like it's jamming it up and you get pain to your 1148 00:56:24,328 --> 00:56:26,191 great toe doing that, you probably shouldn't have those 1149 00:56:26,191 --> 00:56:28,830 on. Now that is a spectrum, like 1150 00:56:28,830 --> 00:56:31,612 everything else. You just got to try the things 1151 00:56:31,612 --> 00:56:34,918 on and see how that goes. Achilles tendenopathy. 1152 00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:38,198 Usually it's going to be from Matt was talking about the 1153 00:56:38,198 --> 00:56:41,178 inclination angles earlier where you have these kind of like 1154 00:56:41,178 --> 00:56:43,558 large doors of flection moments that can happen. 1155 00:56:43,559 --> 00:56:46,380 And if you get pain when it starts to go into large amounts 1156 00:56:46,380 --> 00:56:48,767 of extension, you're going to want to find shoes that limit 1157 00:56:48,767 --> 00:56:51,154 that range of motion just a little bit, that usually is 1158 00:56:51,154 --> 00:56:53,098 going to be more of a rocker profile shoe. 1159 00:56:53,099 --> 00:56:56,029 You also got to see where that tendonopathy or insertional 1160 00:56:56,029 --> 00:56:59,545 tendonopathy is like coming from because every once in a while it 1161 00:56:59,545 --> 00:57:02,759 can also come from that heel counter pushing up against it. 1162 00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,578 And it might not matter at all if it's rocking or not. 1163 00:57:05,579 --> 00:57:08,578 Like, it could just be that it's getting hit and pressured. 1164 00:57:08,579 --> 00:57:10,739 And that's usually going to be the case with people that have 1165 00:57:10,739 --> 00:57:12,975 haglons. So in those situations, you're 1166 00:57:12,975 --> 00:57:17,907 probably going to want a little bit more space around that heel 1167 00:57:17,907 --> 00:57:20,279 collar, well, the... Oh, I'm blanking on the proper 1168 00:57:20,279 --> 00:57:22,549 word, but not the heel color, but the where the heel counter 1169 00:57:22,549 --> 00:57:23,158 is. Yeah. 1170 00:57:23,159 --> 00:57:25,918 So you might want to be more flexible or not there at all. 1171 00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:29,054 There are some shoes that are more fabric based around that 1172 00:57:29,054 --> 00:57:31,198 area. What was the other one? 1173 00:57:31,199 --> 00:57:33,538 It was tendonopathy, Achilles andenopathy. 1174 00:57:33,539 --> 00:57:36,619 Oh, planar fashion pain. And the planar fashion one is 1175 00:57:36,619 --> 00:57:39,015 interesting as well. Yeah, because some people do 1176 00:57:39,015 --> 00:57:42,612 really well in minimal issues, even though in textbook, it like 1177 00:57:42,612 --> 00:57:45,720 probably isn't the move. The planner, Fascia, is a 1178 00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:48,959 passive structure that helps support the underside of your 1179 00:57:48,959 --> 00:57:51,882 foot. In and of itself is not a 1180 00:57:51,882 --> 00:57:54,384 contractile property, right? So you have other muscles around 1181 00:57:54,384 --> 00:57:56,958 it that kind of help create tension to give a stable 1182 00:57:56,958 --> 00:57:59,532 environment on the underside of your foot and the medial and 1183 00:57:59,532 --> 00:58:02,338 lateral side of your ankle and the backside and the front side. 1184 00:58:02,340 --> 00:58:05,580 That's your tibouse anterior, your soleus, your tib posts, 1185 00:58:05,580 --> 00:58:07,738 your pironial muscles along the side. 1186 00:58:07,739 --> 00:58:10,378 Do you guys say pironious longness, or fibularis longness? 1187 00:58:10,380 --> 00:58:13,259 So erroneous, but everybody else says fibulous. 1188 00:58:13,260 --> 00:58:17,398 Yay, we're all in school. Yeah, it's the old school way. 1189 00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:22,678 Yeah, I'm not going to do it. I'm stuck on perenials. 1190 00:58:22,679 --> 00:58:27,118 I'm not even like old school. Like, I mean, am I? 1191 00:58:27,119 --> 00:58:29,218 I don't know, it counts as old school. 1192 00:58:29,219 --> 00:58:33,054 But I've been since I started. I never, I never said fibularis 1193 00:58:33,054 --> 00:58:36,274 longest, but I don't know, I guess I've been doing it a 1194 00:58:36,274 --> 00:58:38,843 little while now. Probably just depends on who you 1195 00:58:38,843 --> 00:58:41,609 learn from, you know? Yeah, and the guys that taught 1196 00:58:41,609 --> 00:58:44,518 me were also, they were old school, so that makes sense. 1197 00:58:44,519 --> 00:58:47,691 It was like, oh, this is prone as longest, but just so you 1198 00:58:47,691 --> 00:58:50,608 know, like the new kids on the block are saying fibrillari as 1199 00:58:50,608 --> 00:58:52,309 longest. Like, if you hear that, that's 1200 00:58:52,309 --> 00:58:54,439 the same thing. But no, it's it's Peronius 1201 00:58:54,439 --> 00:58:56,818 longest. And Brevis and Tertius. 1202 00:58:56,820 --> 00:59:02,069 But I'm going off track. All of those things help support 1203 00:59:02,069 --> 00:59:05,384 your arch in the under side of your foot in different ways and 1204 00:59:05,384 --> 00:59:08,375 capacities. And so you kind of have to look 1205 00:59:08,375 --> 00:59:11,452 at what is the irritating structure, almost always the 1206 00:59:11,452 --> 00:59:13,498 planner fascia isn't necessarily the issue. 1207 00:59:13,500 --> 00:59:16,317 It's a sequeli to something else that's causing excessive 1208 00:59:16,317 --> 00:59:19,438 irritation and pressure to that area most of the time. 1209 00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:22,932 So whether or not that's, let's say, the calves are super tight 1210 00:59:22,932 --> 00:59:26,133 and they can't elongate, then you might have to stretch those 1211 00:59:26,133 --> 00:59:29,038 out and find something that limits the range of motion. 1212 00:59:29,039 --> 00:59:31,525 However, if it's a stability demand on the inside or the 1213 00:59:31,525 --> 00:59:34,228 outside of the foot and ankle, you might have to find something 1214 00:59:34,228 --> 00:59:36,478 that kind of helps steer that in the right direction. 1215 00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:38,280 And that's kind of where sometimes the stability issue or 1216 00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:40,440 something with a little bit of a wider base can actually help 1217 00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:42,689 with some of that. And that could help take the 1218 00:59:42,689 --> 00:59:44,218 pressure off of the planner, fascia. 1219 00:59:44,219 --> 00:59:48,454 So that's a loaded, loaded answer or question to that one 1220 00:59:48,454 --> 00:59:51,200 specifically. Um, but I would, I'm curious to 1221 00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:55,581 see what you guys think, but I, that's kind of where I'm coming 1222 00:59:55,581 --> 00:59:57,276 from. It's one of those things where 1223 00:59:57,276 --> 00:59:59,533 it kind of requires a little bit of further questioning 1224 00:59:59,533 --> 01:00:00,658 evaluation just looking at things. 1225 01:00:00,659 --> 01:00:02,998 It's definitely not a blanket. Put the shoe on. 1226 01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:06,598 I was going to say the same thing for planter fashion pain. 1227 01:00:06,599 --> 01:00:11,795 That one has no easy answer just because of the multiple factors 1228 01:00:11,795 --> 01:00:16,125 that go into why someone might be experiencing planner fashion 1229 01:00:16,125 --> 01:00:18,797 pain. In my opinion, too, the things 1230 01:00:18,797 --> 01:00:22,076 we know about footwear for planner fashion pain. pretty 1231 01:00:22,076 --> 01:00:25,328 clear that there's short-term benefit of like a, even a gel 1232 01:00:25,328 --> 01:00:27,538 heel cup. some sort of over-the-counterorthotic. 1233 01:00:27,539 --> 01:00:29,638 Just keep your shoe, in my opinion. 1234 01:00:29,639 --> 01:00:32,620 If you're fresh on this new planter fashion pain train, keep 1235 01:00:32,620 --> 01:00:35,601 the shoes you have for now, get through the really inflamed 1236 01:00:35,601 --> 01:00:38,578 phase and make sure that you and your physical therapist learn 1237 01:00:38,578 --> 01:00:41,278 what are the, what are the contributing factors here and 1238 01:00:41,278 --> 01:00:45,328 can I rectify them on my own or do I need some support long term 1239 01:00:45,328 --> 01:00:48,184 from a, from a shoe? And when I say support, I don't 1240 01:00:48,184 --> 01:00:50,877 mean like a custom orthotic. I mean like, oh, would I benefit 1241 01:00:50,877 --> 01:00:53,880 from a little bit of a rocker in my gate based on some 1242 01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:55,958 limitations that aren't resolving as quickly as I want? 1243 01:00:55,958 --> 01:00:59,638 And I got to get back to walking and being on my feet like a lot. 1244 01:00:59,639 --> 01:01:02,855 So I think there's a lot of unknowns when it comes to 1245 01:01:02,855 --> 01:01:06,071 planter Fetch Bank because like David said, it could go from the 1246 01:01:06,071 --> 01:01:07,678 minimalist to the high rocker profile. 1247 01:01:07,679 --> 01:01:10,957 There are lots, there are lots of people that, for whatever 1248 01:01:10,957 --> 01:01:13,333 reason, like, there's, in the clinical practice guideline 1249 01:01:13,333 --> 01:01:16,600 suggests, as Nathan said, short term wise, if you, like, you 1250 01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:19,570 could do actually a taping technique to support the medial 1251 01:01:19,570 --> 01:01:22,243 arch, if that relieves their symptoms, that's actually a 1252 01:01:22,243 --> 01:01:24,322 diagnostic intervention to suggest you actually might 1253 01:01:24,322 --> 01:01:26,104 benefit from an over-the-counterorthotic or a 1254 01:01:26,104 --> 01:01:27,811 stability shoe. And again, probably the 1255 01:01:27,811 --> 01:01:30,591 over-the-counter a thought, the $30, $40 thing at Safeway or 1256 01:01:30,591 --> 01:01:33,649 whatever is going to probably be a better option than just 1257 01:01:33,649 --> 01:01:36,429 immediately going out until you go, hey, this actually is 1258 01:01:36,429 --> 01:01:40,041 beneficial to me and in the long term, you may want to consider 1259 01:01:40,041 --> 01:01:41,835 that. But there's also other people 1260 01:01:41,835 --> 01:01:45,168 that go to minimal shoes and their symptoms totally clear up 1261 01:01:45,168 --> 01:01:47,938 and you're like, hm. So it's not that we don't know. 1262 01:01:47,940 --> 01:01:51,718 It's clinically is very complex. There's a reason it's complex. 1263 01:01:51,719 --> 01:01:55,498 There is not a one size fits all cure all with plantar fasciitis. 1264 01:01:55,500 --> 01:02:00,553 Uh, the next, the next condition was kind of insertional Achilles 1265 01:02:00,553 --> 01:02:04,225 tenopthier, just, I would say, irritable and chronically 1266 01:02:04,225 --> 01:02:07,438 irritable planner or, um, Achilles tendon pain. 1267 01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:10,918 I think that people have kind of 2 3 options. 1268 01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:14,314 One is if it's insertional and it's very fresh and you want to 1269 01:02:14,314 --> 01:02:17,446 offload a little bit, again, I would keep your shoes and just 1270 01:02:17,446 --> 01:02:20,578 work on getting a heel lift for a shortened amount of time. 1271 01:02:20,579 --> 01:02:22,078 The heel lift will just take you out. 1272 01:02:22,079 --> 01:02:25,979 I'm not prescribing this. I'm saying it's an option, but 1273 01:02:25,979 --> 01:02:29,279 it takes you out of as much dorsiflection, and that's what 1274 01:02:29,279 --> 01:02:32,879 kind of creates some of the kind of pinching that happens when 1275 01:02:32,879 --> 01:02:36,178 you have the tenenopathy really close down to your heel bone. 1276 01:02:36,179 --> 01:02:39,815 So a heel lift for a short period of time can just take you 1277 01:02:39,815 --> 01:02:43,700 out of there in the same vein if it's a little bit more of an 1278 01:02:43,700 --> 01:02:45,659 ongoing issue. You could think about a higher 1279 01:02:45,659 --> 01:02:48,221 drop shoe. I think about like the Mizuno, 1280 01:02:48,221 --> 01:02:52,378 you know, Waverider or something like that, could be a good shoe. 1281 01:02:52,380 --> 01:02:55,259 It's coming down. They're lowering their drop. 1282 01:02:55,260 --> 01:02:57,888 I would I would not do the Waverider anymore because the 1283 01:02:57,888 --> 01:03:00,982 drops got a little lower and the midsole foam is so much softer 1284 01:03:00,982 --> 01:03:03,838 that if you're a heel striker, it actually drops quite a bit. 1285 01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:05,518 It drops more. Yeah. 1286 01:03:05,519 --> 01:03:07,547 All right. Well, I nixed that 1287 01:03:07,547 --> 01:03:09,418 recommendation. Something with higher drop. 1288 01:03:09,420 --> 01:03:12,778 Adrenaline. That's an adrenaline. 1289 01:03:12,780 --> 01:03:14,760 Oh, okay. I feel like that's, yeah, the 1290 01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:16,918 adrenaline in the game. Yeah, I still have 10. 1291 01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:19,798 And then they all, yeah, they're all still pretty high. 1292 01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:23,487 On the flip side, you could go into the rocker profile shoe 1293 01:03:23,487 --> 01:03:27,171 that is going to be rigid enough to actually operate on the 1294 01:03:27,171 --> 01:03:29,184 rocker. That'll just take some load off 1295 01:03:29,184 --> 01:03:31,738 the Achilles because the planner pressure forces go down. 1296 01:03:31,739 --> 01:03:37,797 A few shoes that on my list from a walking perspective are the 1297 01:03:37,797 --> 01:03:41,098 ghost max glycerin max. those could be potential options. 1298 01:03:41,099 --> 01:03:44,687 Even the Nimbus 26 is, I think, rigid enough for many walkers, 1299 01:03:44,687 --> 01:03:48,266 even though it doesn't have like a plate or anything, but then, 1300 01:03:48,266 --> 01:03:51,842 depending on who you are, you might do well with like the 1301 01:03:51,842 --> 01:03:54,256 endorphin speed. It has a plate in it, but it 1302 01:03:54,256 --> 01:03:57,299 doesn't have a big toe spring. So it kind of operates a little 1303 01:03:57,299 --> 01:04:00,292 bit off of that rocker. I've had success with that with 1304 01:04:00,292 --> 01:04:03,868 some patients in the past who had it for running and they 1305 01:04:03,868 --> 01:04:06,848 started using that as their walking shoe, so they already 1306 01:04:06,848 --> 01:04:09,985 had it in their quiver. So it's, it was successful for 1307 01:04:09,985 --> 01:04:12,742 them. And then the other one is the 1308 01:04:12,742 --> 01:04:15,759 New Balance SC trainer. I think that's another rocker 1309 01:04:15,759 --> 01:04:18,412 shoe. It does have a plate in it, but 1310 01:04:18,412 --> 01:04:20,158 it's not, it's not crazy unstable. 1311 01:04:20,159 --> 01:04:24,598 Um, it's very wide base. It's not super squishy. 1312 01:04:24,599 --> 01:04:28,519 So I think that one fits a lot of the hopes, but it prevents, 1313 01:04:28,519 --> 01:04:31,318 you know, it allows you to operate off the rocker. 1314 01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:35,324 So those last couple also work for Alex rigidis because they're 1315 01:04:35,324 --> 01:04:38,964 going to have that rocker profile that's going to prevent 1316 01:04:38,964 --> 01:04:42,238 the big toe from having to extend as much. 1317 01:04:42,239 --> 01:04:43,378 Matt, what are you thinking about? 1318 01:04:43,380 --> 01:04:46,579 Two questions. I totally forgot about that 1319 01:04:46,579 --> 01:04:49,498 shoe, but that's actually been one that several patients of 1320 01:04:49,498 --> 01:04:52,117 mine have had success with for, um, both, ironically, 1321 01:04:52,117 --> 01:04:55,027 pinifactitis and Alex Ridge is just finding something that's so 1322 01:04:55,027 --> 01:04:56,458 stiff. I didn't like... 1323 01:04:56,460 --> 01:04:59,265 I mean, I got a ton of miles on that shoot took forever to break 1324 01:04:59,265 --> 01:05:01,882 in because I found it so firm, I think, because the plate is a 1325 01:05:01,882 --> 01:05:04,898 little bit closer to the foot. Is there an update happening to 1326 01:05:04,898 --> 01:05:06,478 that shoe? or is that... 1327 01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:09,149 I would imagine. So, I mean, it was a popular 1328 01:05:09,149 --> 01:05:11,098 shoe. I can't I can't imagine. 1329 01:05:11,099 --> 01:05:14,329 I haven't heard anything about it yet, so. 1330 01:05:14,329 --> 01:05:17,339 I don't know. Matt, do you have anything to 1331 01:05:17,339 --> 01:05:19,798 add on this? question? 1332 01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:22,438 I'm not seeing anything on the internet about it. 1333 01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:26,519 Anyway, um, not really. No, I think, um, yeah, just 1334 01:05:26,519 --> 01:05:29,639 balancing these things. And also understanding that you, 1335 01:05:29,639 --> 01:05:33,929 you can't just have one shoe that's going to work for 1336 01:05:33,929 --> 01:05:35,320 everybody. There's and I think that, 1337 01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:37,320 Nathan, you're talking about going, hey, before you go nuts 1338 01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:38,518 and buy all these different shoes. 1339 01:05:38,519 --> 01:05:41,510 Actually, try. I mean, Alex Ridges, you're not 1340 01:05:41,510 --> 01:05:44,734 going to be able to stabilize as much until you get that larger 1341 01:05:44,734 --> 01:05:47,398 rocker stiff profile. But the other two, you have lots 1342 01:05:47,398 --> 01:05:50,686 of add-ons that only cost a couple bucks on Amazon that you 1343 01:05:50,686 --> 01:05:53,700 should definitely try before you like, oh, I should absolutely do 1344 01:05:53,700 --> 01:05:55,618 this because everybody's got a little variation. 1345 01:05:55,619 --> 01:05:58,622 There are things that might work a little bit better, but 1346 01:05:58,622 --> 01:06:01,886 especially if it's a little bit more like acute and it's maybe 1347 01:06:01,886 --> 01:06:05,150 not maybe as maybe it's not as tendonopic or chronic as maybe 1348 01:06:05,150 --> 01:06:08,414 you might expect, if it's a little more short, which is not 1349 01:06:08,414 --> 01:06:11,950 uncommon, um, if it just gets better quickly, it just may be a 1350 01:06:11,950 --> 01:06:14,942 short bandage that you might need, but if this becomes a 1351 01:06:14,942 --> 01:06:17,662 longer thing that you're dealing with, then you want Medawake, 1352 01:06:17,662 --> 01:06:20,654 might want to start choosing some shoes long term that help 1353 01:06:20,654 --> 01:06:22,558 make those changes to help sustain stuff. 1354 01:06:22,559 --> 01:06:25,782 Not saying you can't fix things, but there are certain things 1355 01:06:25,782 --> 01:06:29,586 that people tend to do better in long term just for a prevention 1356 01:06:29,586 --> 01:06:30,598 standpoint. So, yeah. 1357 01:06:30,599 --> 01:06:33,649 Great. Well, this is a fun 1358 01:06:33,649 --> 01:06:37,223 conversation. This has been spurred on by 1359 01:06:37,223 --> 01:06:41,442 articles that Matt has written. And so if you're looking for 1360 01:06:41,442 --> 01:06:44,646 more on this topic, he has written about kind of what are 1361 01:06:44,646 --> 01:06:48,104 some of the components of a good walking shoe, so you can go 1362 01:06:48,104 --> 01:06:51,030 check out that on Doctors of Running.com, if you have other 1363 01:06:51,030 --> 01:06:54,222 topics that you want to hear from us, never be afraid to 1364 01:06:54,222 --> 01:06:57,946 reach out to us and, um, kind of throw out ideas that you may 1365 01:06:57,946 --> 01:07:00,872 have or if you have specific questions you want us to 1366 01:07:00,872 --> 01:07:03,034 discuss. We always collect those and 1367 01:07:03,034 --> 01:07:06,058 hopefully bring them out for our mailbag episodes. 1368 01:07:06,059 --> 01:07:08,458 But we look forward to talking to y'all next time. 1369 01:07:08,460 --> 01:07:08,519 Thanks for joining.