1 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,360 Hello everybody and welcome to the Doctors of Running podcast 2 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:15,960 where we a group of doctors of physical therapy discussed the 3 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,200 art and science of running and the stuff that we put on our 4 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:20,200 feet. Today at the round table we have 5 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,360 Doctor Matthew Klein, the founder of Doctors of Running 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,280 and Doctor David Salas and myself, I am Nathan Brown. 7 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:26,680 We're excited to be with you all today. 8 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:28,840 We have a pretty fun episode today. 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,320 We are going to be talking about what some of the best non 10 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,600 running workouts are for runners, but we're also going to 11 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,760 be talking about a lot of the shoes that we are testing right 12 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,960 now. And from what I understand, Matt 13 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,440 is in like a 95° garage right now. 14 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,320 It's. 95 it's 95 outside, but I don't know what it is in the 15 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,320 garage, but I have you know, thanks to our our wonderful 16 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,320 supporters at Scratch Labs, some of the strawberry lemonade 17 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,480 hydration mix that I hope is going to keep me going. 18 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,000 But if I like slump off screen and lose consciousness, just 19 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:00,920 keep going. We know why, yeah. 20 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:02,280 So we don't need to be worried, right? 21 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,440 So I'm excited to chat with y'all. 22 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,120 It's been a little bit since the three of us have been recording 23 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:09,560 together. So it'll be fun to talk through 24 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,280 a bunch of things. But we do want to talk about 25 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,280 what we're testing now. So this is our In 4 Testing 26 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,520 segment where we talk about the most recent shoes that we've 27 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:19,800 been testing. We'll break them down a little 28 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:21,680 bit, give some initial impressions, some initial 29 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:23,400 questions that have popped into our mind. 30 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,400 And this segment is fueled by Scratch Labs, which is a 31 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,320 performance nutrition company and hydration company that's 32 00:01:29,320 --> 00:01:33,400 built by athletes, for athletes and by people who understand and 33 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,400 science, which makes it really fun as well. 34 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:37,560 There's a real ingredients, no junk involved. 35 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,240 And if you want, you can use the code doctors of running for 20% 36 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,280 off your first order. So let's talk a little bit about 37 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,840 what we have been testing. I have the most shoes that I've 38 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,160 ever brought to one of these segments or like anytime we have 39 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,440 like a list, I'm feeling like David and David, since we since 40 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:56,120 I told you how many I have, I added one. 41 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:01,680 So it's because I've been running more, which is a fun 42 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:03,200 thing. So yeah. 43 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,960 And we're going to follow up on this because Dave and I just 44 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:07,360 talked about this. Want to give you a shout out 45 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,759 that you completed 1/2 marathon not too long ago. 46 00:02:10,039 --> 00:02:12,520 That was awesome and a really, really big milestone. 47 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:14,880 So very excited for you. But because you have so many 48 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:16,360 shoes, I think you should go first. 49 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:18,960 I suppose I can do that. I can start with the half 50 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,880 marathon, I guess. So I I ran, I did not race it. 51 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,320 I ran it with some friends, but it's my first time covering that 52 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,280 distance in probably over a year. 53 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,120 I've done a couple 10 milers over the last couple months and 54 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,120 been feeling pretty good. So it was really fun. 55 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,840 Five of us ran it together. We held hands across the finish 56 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:37,760 line. Not a joke, like literally held 57 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:38,920 the hands. It was really cute. 58 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,480 We had a lot of fun. But in that in that run, I ended 59 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,920 up choosing the Super Blast 2, which is not one that I'm going 60 00:02:44,920 --> 00:02:47,240 to talk about for infer testing, but I just wanted something that 61 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,040 was super reliable for me to cover a long distance. 62 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:54,400 So I had to pull that out, but I've been testing for the most 63 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,920 part a shoe from Skechers. It's the Arrow Burst. 64 00:02:57,920 --> 00:02:59,840 It's their more maximally stacked shoe. 65 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,400 People may disagree with what I'm about to say, but from the 66 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,320 testing experience and kind of where it fits for what Skechers 67 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:09,560 is doing, it's kind of like their replacement for the Max 68 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,600 Rd. except it's significantly heavier and still cushioned. 69 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,240 I think the biggest difference for me from the Max Rd., which 70 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:20,880 never worked for myself and this is the type of geometry that it 71 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,000 has. I found that the the Max Rd. had 72 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,320 a much more significant bevel that I would always have to kind 73 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,400 of like run and get over. And it almost felt like there 74 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,480 was this bolus under the my midfoot. 75 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,080 And usually like this shoe also has arch fit. 76 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,640 Usually the arch fit was a lot more obtrusive for me in my in 77 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,680 my like medial side of my arch, but I didn't have that issue 78 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:44,240 with this one. So I've taken this on a 110 mile 79 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,200 run and then another like hour 15 run, like 8 miles. 80 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,200 So I've been loving it for kind of slow cruising miles. 81 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:51,640 I did a little bit of a workout in it. 82 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:53,760 It's definitely not made for going fast. 83 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:58,280 I found that it was best for like easy, long, consistent 84 00:03:58,280 --> 00:03:59,840 miles. Anything where I was pushing 85 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,520 pace, it lost whatever bounce it had. 86 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,440 So I get the slower paces. It feels nice and cushioned. 87 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,240 A little bit of rebound, not crazy propulsive, but just a 88 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,000 little bit of a bounce from the foam Once you go faster. 89 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,120 I felt like it it didn't give that that anymore. 90 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,320 So I but I like it for cruising like it for easy miles. 91 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,200 It's got a nice wider platform, so it's pretty stable. 92 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,840 The arch fit was not obtrusive. It's got the hyperburst ice 93 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,560 compound in it and I thought I think it's a pretty solid shoe. 94 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,680 It's, I don't think it's going to win any awards for me, but 95 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,200 I'm going to be right in the reviews in the next couple days 96 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,480 because I have more than enough miles put in on it, which does 97 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,320 say something about it for myself that it worked for me for 98 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,920 the most part, but a little bit slower, OK. 99 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,720 I will say really quick that hearing that review is going to 100 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,320 break box heart because the Max Rd. is near and dear to his 101 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:49,920 heart. So I know he loves that. 102 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,280 Wait till the review comes out to break that to him. 103 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,960 I'm kind of a it is a running shoe, but not one that I 104 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,680 personally use for running, but it's the fly light 6 from topo. 105 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,240 I've been using this one more for like walking and lifting and 106 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,280 for me it's it's not like a pure lifting shoe right? 107 00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:10,880 It doesn't have that super hard platform like that's wicked 108 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,000 stable and really grounding you. It's but it is a little bit 109 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,880 firmer of a foam. It's wide enough on the base. 110 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:21,920 It's got a lower drop, really secure midfoot, good fit, let's 111 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,200 your feet splay. So I've been liking this shoe 112 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:28,640 for lifting here in my basement and just kind of like walking 113 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:29,960 around and doing stuff like that. 114 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,120 A little bit of flexible. And if you're somebody who kind 115 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,480 of like wants a shoe that can walk, lift and do a little bit 116 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:36,880 of running, this would work great. 117 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:41,520 Because the platform, I think it's like 2515 or maybe even 15. 118 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,440 I got to look back, sorry, but that'll be in the review too. 119 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,400 But Flylight 6 has been good for kind of like lifting. 120 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:51,640 So it's been classic topo fit and a lower, flatter platform. 121 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,480 One of my favorite trainers has been the Rebel 5. 122 00:05:55,760 --> 00:06:00,400 It's the first Rebel that has fit me and I just feel like it's 123 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,400 one of those that just is so smooth back to front, like no 124 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:05,880 hitches in the transition for me. 125 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,120 Our full reviews out on this one, but I have still been 126 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,080 grabbing it and getting some some runs in for it. 127 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:15,240 And I like it for recovery runs probably the most. 128 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,160 But it's light enough and has a little bit of pop to it. 129 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:19,840 So you can you can push in this thing. 130 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:21,760 So that's why I like some of that versatility. 131 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,080 And then the last one that I have the least amount of testing 132 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:29,640 in, but I have started it in it is the Neo Vista 2 from Mizuno. 133 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,360 And all I'm going to say about it for right now is something 134 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,240 that I'm disappointed in. So not that it's a bad shoe, but 135 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,960 my disappointment is that the changes in the upper for myself, 136 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,640 it's a little bit stiffer, a little bit thicker and a little 137 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:45,920 bit looser. And because it's a sock like 138 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,880 fit, the sock like fit does not fit my foot as well as the 139 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,760 previous one. The previous one is a little bit 140 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,880 thinner, a little bit more stretchy and a little bit like 141 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,040 more snug. And so I like that it was snug, 142 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,080 but it's stretched and held my heel a lot better, whereas I get 143 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:03,400 a little bit of slippage in the new one. 144 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:08,040 But again, I've got one very short run in the Nio Vista 2 and 145 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,080 everybody's foot is going to work different with this kind of 146 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,280 stuff, so. Can you hold up your NIA Vista? 147 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,160 The NIA Vista one? That's a cool color. 148 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:17,200 Way. Do you like my color way? 149 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:18,720 Yeah, I didn't get that color way. 150 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:23,440 Yeah, they sent me mine like yeah they I got mine sent to me 151 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:29,520 like 8 months after it released. But yeah I liked running it so 152 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:31,760 that's all I got. What do you guys have? 153 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:36,040 Yeah, no worries. I actually did either of you 154 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,160 have the Skechers arrow spark on hand? 155 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:41,720 I can grab it. Do you want me to grab it? 156 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:42,760 Start talking. I'll grab it. 157 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:47,600 Yeah, so the first one I'll go is the Skechers Arrow Spark. 158 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,120 I mainly grab things that I was going to be running in for the 159 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,600 following week, but we just finished up the miles on that 160 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,240 the other day. That's been one of the shoes 161 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,760 that I've been doing my daily miles in over the last week and 162 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,400 doing some shorter kind of workout type stuff in it. 163 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:03,440 There we go. We got them both on there. 164 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:08,800 So I love how like you went got up and like got it and Klein 165 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:09,800 just. Like just had it he. 166 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,080 Just had it the whole time it. Was somewhere on the shoe wall. 167 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:14,120 I'm like, where did I? Put this. 168 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,640 I'm going to wait till he gets up and then I'm just going to 169 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,360 grab it. No, I just couldn't find it. 170 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,600 So Skechers arrow spark, kind of like a lightweight trainer. 171 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:28,760 Dare I say, it's almost reminiscent of like razor 3 172 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,680 esque, but it's it's heavier and it's a little bit more 173 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,240 structured than those models. So razor 3 was like 6 oz. 174 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,240 I mean that it's kind of hard to compare things weight wise to 175 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,000 that shoe. This this is more in the nine 176 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,280 ounce range. So it's got a decent amount of 177 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,600 shoe on it. That's more some of that's going 178 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:47,320 to be the rubber. You have that Goodyear outsole 179 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,480 on there that's a little bit thicker platform though. 180 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,360 It's kind of moderate stack. It's like right around that 181 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:57,280 3536, I think it's 36 in the hill and it's about 5-6 182 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,880 millimeter drop 30 roughly, Yeah. 183 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,240 So kind of like middle of the road on those things. 184 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:07,960 And it has the hyperburst ice mincel in there as well. 185 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,920 And then it has a carbon fiber H plate as well in there. 186 00:09:11,560 --> 00:09:14,440 And even though it has the carbon fiber plate, it still has 187 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,120 a little bit of flexibility to it as well. 188 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,400 I wouldn't say that it's super stiff, but it does have a little 189 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,200 bit of spring in that forefoot when you load it. 190 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,400 And I found that I've actually really enjoyed that shoe. 191 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,120 Like it's something I wasn't quite expecting, but it's 192 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,280 versatile and it can do a little bit of everything. 193 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,520 And it has just enough cushion to kind of hit some of those 194 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,600 longer efforts. And it retails at 130 bucks, 195 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,360 which I feel like is pretty darn competitive for what it is. 196 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,840 So I've been really enjoying it. The fits a little bit more snug. 197 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:48,320 It feels kind of more performance oriented, but a 198 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:49,720 little bit more training friendly. 199 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,080 So it's not quite like a pure performance trainer like it kind 200 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:54,960 of like dances on that line a little bit. 201 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,480 So I I've been enjoying it. I just didn't grab it because I 202 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,120 finished my miles on it and that review will be up in within the 203 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,720 next couple days. Probably got to write that up. 204 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,480 But the other one was the meta speed edge. 205 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,920 I'm sorry, meta speed Sky Tokyo just finished writing the 206 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,120 written review on that. Did a video on that. 207 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:16,120 So I don't have that on my hand. I just that's the stuff that we 208 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,440 did the last week. So coming up into the next week, 209 00:10:18,680 --> 00:10:20,200 I got a one out of Nathan there. He brought 4 out. 210 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:21,360 So now I got to talk about 5 right? 211 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:26,680 Like that's how we do this. So so looking at like the next 212 00:10:26,680 --> 00:10:30,440 week, the one that I'm excited about maiden voyage is tomorrow 213 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:32,480 is going to be the topo athletic Vista. 214 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,600 So trail running shoe wide base. It's pretty structured 215 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:36,800 throughout. This thing is not going to be a 216 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,000 speed demon, but it feels really nice. 217 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,720 Like it feels like it's built really well and I think it's 218 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:43,640 going to be one of those shoes that you could probably hike and 219 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:47,480 run and do longer efforts in like and traction seems really 220 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,160 good on it. So I'm I'm excited. 221 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:53,440 I think it's going to be good. And then for daily Rd. miles, 222 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,280 we're going to be looking at the Rabbit Dream Chaser. 223 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:59,440 So want to get that out. And that's making faces. 224 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,520 But it was sent to us. We're going to review it. 225 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,360 And it's just, it's just not agreeing with me it. 226 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:10,040 Hasn't agreed with me either. Yeah, but I mean, we get things, 227 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,120 we write things, right? It's for for the people. 228 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,160 Yeah, I'm curious to see what like your thoughts especially 229 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,560 being Santa proper and you, you got a decent number of miles on 230 00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:21,120 the first one. Curious to know to hear how it 231 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,920 goes for you in terms of changes and things like that upper fit. 232 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,880 Yeah, I think the little bit I have on the upper, the mid foot 233 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:29,840 still snug. The first one was really snug on 234 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:34,280 me too, where I I didn't quite love it, but I mean, generally 235 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,280 speaking, it feels all right. We'll see. 236 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,240 And then for like speedy stuff, we've got the SCOE 5 in from New 237 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,320 Balance, so that should be a fun one. 238 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,280 I've tried it on, I just haven't run in it yet. 239 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,200 It fits really well. It locks down super well. 240 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,160 Got a snug fit the route, but just enough space in the 241 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,520 forefoot to kind of give you some, you know, swelling 242 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:54,320 accommodation, stiff carbon plate. 243 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:59,120 The fuel cell feels like it's just a little bit more 244 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,200 structured than it has in the past. 245 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,360 It doesn't feel super marshmallowy and I like that. 246 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:05,920 I think it actually feels really nice. 247 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:07,960 And then the outs are super grippy. 248 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,600 Like they basically put like little lugs on that thing and 249 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:12,840 you can feel it right away. Like once you stand and start 250 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:14,880 walking around in it, you're like, oh wow, this thing wants 251 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,280 to eat up the ground. So who knows, it might be a good 252 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:18,160 trail shoe. We'll find out. 253 00:12:18,680 --> 00:12:20,240 What you got? All right, I have a couple 254 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,280 interesting ones, although two of them you've already talked 255 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:23,920 about, but I'll bring up the one that we have. 256 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:28,760 It is the Reebok Floatzig. They're the new version of this. 257 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,000 I was a little apprehensive at first. 258 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,920 The last kind of series that Reebok did just didn't really 259 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,480 agree with my feet. And so I was like, you know 260 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,280 what, I really want to throw this on because we do have a 261 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,520 history with them. They were some of the Ogs to 262 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,000 partner up with us. And so I was like, let's let's 263 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:46,960 see where we at. It's not a bad shoe. 264 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,560 I like the foam more than last. I think there's a little bit 265 00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:51,920 more cushion. What I'm not getting out of them 266 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,880 is a lot of responsiveness in terms of like it's it's a 267 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,040 heavier shoe. It's not very responsive, but it 268 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:58,640 is very cushion. The foam is nice. 269 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,800 Walking is really nice, running slowly is really nice as long as 270 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:04,360 recovery pace, but just a little heavier. 271 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,560 But the fit is actually pretty nice, a little bit more volume, 272 00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:11,520 a little more width that I've actually enjoyed just hard also 273 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:15,520 because I mean, every time I uses it's usually with the 274 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,080 recovery run while pushing a stroller. 275 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,840 So extra exhausted there too. So, but it's been an interesting 276 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,640 shoe thus far that I'm not disappointed in just going, Oh, 277 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,080 OK, that's that's interesting. When that shoe, when that shoe 278 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,480 arrived, it always gives me flashbacks to like the original 279 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:32,400 float right energy, which at the time with what the foam was, it 280 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,880 was fantastic. And it was always like $100. 281 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:41,160 And I have my, I still have my 10 KPR in the original float 282 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,720 right energy and I don't have my pair anymore, sadly. 283 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,600 But I just loved that shoe. And then I loved some of their 284 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,600 other foam compounds that they were using with like we've 285 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,040 talked about the Panthea before. That was I think our first ever 286 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,640 Doctors of Running podcast was on the Panthea, if I remember it 287 00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:00,480 right. But I, I think that was the 288 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,640 topic of our first, which is pretty fun. 289 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:05,320 So there's a lot of fun shoots from Reebok. 290 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,720 I think I've, I've actually ran in that one too. 291 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:12,000 And I, I think that it's fine, but it just feels flat, like 292 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,360 there isn't a whole lot of, like you said, not a whole lot of 293 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,720 bounce from it. Right other shoe that I'm 294 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,720 testing right now from a training perspective is like 295 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,760 Nathan said, the Neo Vista 2, which is in my I've been looking 296 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,800 at the specs and like stack heights, not supposed to be that 297 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:32,240 different from the original. It feels so much taller, so much 298 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,520 so than the original. The original version. 299 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,840 Ironically though, Nathan, I'm having the exact opposite 300 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,120 experience with you. Or the upper is fitting me a lot 301 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:41,200 better. Than. 302 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,600 I do understand. It will for me when I run. 303 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,440 I I'm almost wondering if the reason for that is you have a 304 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:52,720 narrower foot, right? I got a pretty. 305 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:57,560 Normal yeah, I have I have a little bit like more sensitive 306 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,560 feet, which is well known. We're like, I like a little bit 307 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:01,680 more width, a little more volume. 308 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,280 I feel like this is doing well, but it still hasn't of structure 309 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,200 in the upper that it like sits well and has been very secure, 310 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:08,920 which I didn't quite like with version 1. 311 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,960 So this shoe is got some bounce to it. 312 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,880 I it was like kind of a little bit scary when I first put it 313 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:16,280 on. I'm like, whoa, where are we? 314 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:20,760 But yeah, slowly breaking in it. It doesn't feel as fast as the 315 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:22,560 original. I cranked out some really good 316 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,920 workouts of the original one. This feels it's more like softer 317 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,240 trainery type of ride, but there's still enough bounce to 318 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:30,960 do something like that. But it just, yeah, very 319 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,800 different from the original despite not having that 320 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,600 different specs. So more miles on this. 321 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,600 And then the last thing David already brought this up, the New 322 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,840 Balance SC Elite version 5 actually have full testing 323 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:44,720 miles. I got over 20 miles on this 324 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,520 already. I got an easy run and a long up 325 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,280 tempo run, which getting a long run on a super shoe is very rare 326 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,720 for me because usually I don't trust them for long runs. 327 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:59,040 But did a 10 mile steady state with Regina and one of my 328 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,200 students actually from George Fox and took this out. 329 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,040 I'm really glad I did because Regina was pushed the pace. 330 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:08,040 We finished it like low sixes and I'm really happy with this. 331 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,120 It is not the same as the original. 332 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:11,960 It's very different. I would say it's more aggressive 333 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,320 with while still not being the most aggressive superstore in 334 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,160 the market. The plate is definitely stiffer 335 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,840 that toe off, there's a lot, but it's a little bit firmer, 336 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,080 definitely snappier under foot to surprisingly, despite the 337 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,280 narrow midfoot, not as unstable as I was expecting. 338 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:29,240 I got through it, but just it's still in my opinion, one of the 339 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,840 more friendly super racing shoes in the market, but it's gotten 340 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,320 it's much more aggressive and very different fitting and 341 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,640 riding from the previous shoes. So more miles to come on this, 342 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:42,720 but oh and by the way, the heel hasn't come off yet, so. 343 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,000 I thought. I thought for sure when I saw 344 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,240 this, I'm like, this is toast, I'm going to get through two 345 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,160 runs, it'll be done. And so it actually held on. 346 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,840 So we'll see how many more miles we can get out of this. 347 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,320 Well, we had a lot, we got a lot of stuff for testing, which is 348 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,560 which is fun. And before we get into our main 349 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,040 segment where we're going to be talking about different training 350 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,040 options and workouts that are non running base that are really 351 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,000 good for runners. People have been asking us how 352 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,760 can I work with you or can I consult with you or whatever. 353 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,319 And just a reminder that that is something that we all do. 354 00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:14,119 It's not a part of Doctors of Running, but we do that 355 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,880 individually. So Andrea does that, Matt does 356 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,079 that, I do that. And David, I know you had you, 357 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,000 you're seeing people locally and could be pushed towards this if 358 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,280 enough people are wanting it from you. 359 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,800 But just remember to look up our individual handles or if you 360 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,640 reach out to doctors of running, we can just remind you where you 361 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,800 could talk with Andrea. Like Andrea does consultations, 362 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,320 kind of like one time consults for cycling or running. 363 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,360 Matt does a little bit of that as well, especially if people 364 00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:42,640 are in Oregon or California. And then for myself, I'm I, 365 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,280 we're accepting people for like run coaching. 366 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,880 So if you're wanting that from a physical therapist, you could 367 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:49,520 reach out to us at Pioneers Running. 368 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,200 So just reminded that that stuff exists, but let's get into the 369 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,080 fun stuff. We are going to be talking about 370 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,000 different types of workouts that we think are best for runners. 371 00:17:58,360 --> 00:18:00,800 We're hopefully going to be able to give some very tangible 372 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,800 stuff, but before we do that, we do want to lay a foundation of 373 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,760 some of the complexity that goes into exercises and what we think 374 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,680 about exercise from the lenses of physical therapist. 375 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,280 But hopefully, again, we'll boil it down to some of our top three 376 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:19,560 type workouts for runners. But David, can I kick this over 377 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,000 to you and just start giving us a big overview of what we're, 378 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,320 what this realm is and talking about workouts that are outside 379 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,080 of running and what kind of things we can consider? 380 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:31,000 Yeah. I mean, people have wrote like 381 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,200 written textbooks on this stuff, right. 382 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,640 So it's going to be kind of tough to cover all of it in a 383 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:41,520 short period of time. But I think when you look at a 384 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,680 lot of people refer to it as strength and conditioning, you 385 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,760 know, like the world outside of your given sport and how you 386 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,280 choose to augment it with either strength work, conditioning 387 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,360 work, biometrics, yada, yada, agility work, all that stuff 388 00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:57,320 kind of goes into it. And I think you have to look at 389 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,520 your given sport and how it complements what you're doing 390 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,680 and what your goals are. And so I think there is a very 391 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:05,960 clear delineation that needs to be made first. 392 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:10,560 So I think if you are, let's say, running for fun and but you 393 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,360 are in the gym more than you are running, you're going to focus 394 00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:15,360 more on the gym stuff. And the running is just going to 395 00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:17,120 be something that complements the gym stuff. 396 00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:20,000 Right now, most people that are listening to this podcast are 397 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:21,880 probably more on the running side of things, right? 398 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,160 So running is going to be your main activity. 399 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,680 So you're going to be looking at this and how these types of 400 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,240 activities can complement what you're already doing from a 401 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,320 running standpoint. And in theory either make you 402 00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:34,840 faster, better, or more resilient. 403 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:36,480 It really just depends on what your goals are. 404 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,640 Most people want all the above, you know, and so. 405 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,240 Just. Working on developing some of 406 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,880 those things. And so when we look at that, 407 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:47,680 usually people think of the weight room first. 408 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,160 So we'll start there. You've got many different types 409 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,640 of exercises and different things you can do to work on 410 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,200 building strength both through the lower extremities, upper 411 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:00,160 extremities, core, all of the postural muscles to kind of help 412 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,400 keep you going and build some endurance. 413 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,040 That's going to be one place to start. 414 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:08,040 There's another lane of that is looking at plyometrics. 415 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,920 And when we look at running, it's really just a bunch of 416 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,280 controlled falls. You're kind of taking one step, 417 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,560 falling into the leg the next time, absorbing that load and 418 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,120 springing off of it. And so that's springing part of 419 00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:20,560 it. That's what the plyometric 420 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,720 nature of exercises. Work to facilitate or improve. 421 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,800 So it's basically taking a quick contraction where you're like 422 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,920 absorbing it, slight latency period and springing off that 423 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:32,520 thing. So a lot of different kinds of 424 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,480 jumping type of activities, power development type of things 425 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,560 and then also like different things like working on absorbing 426 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,480 that load. And so we'll get into a lot of 427 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:45,000 the stuff later, I'm sure, but and other ones like eccentric's 428 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,600 really slowing down certain movements, making the tendons 429 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,120 kind of load in a slightly different way, and really 430 00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:52,600 working on that absorbing piece so that you can actually turn 431 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:54,800 that over to the running side of things. 432 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,680 And there's been some good stuff, you know, out there kind 433 00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,560 of showing some improvements with running economy, like on 434 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,840 all of those types of fronts. You also have like the cross 435 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:08,480 training world, You've got like cycling, swimming, pretty much 436 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,560 anything you could think of, rowing, doing any kind of 437 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,560 activity that isn't running and that still counts. 438 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:19,240 So it's really just a whole world of just doing anything 439 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,840 outside of running that still counts as activity. 440 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,480 But most people usually think of it from the strength and 441 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,880 conditioning side of things. And there's also fast stuff I'm 442 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:30,680 not really going into, but there's also the whole 443 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:32,800 functional training side of things to where you have like 444 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,520 your sled pushes and toes, you have your kettlebell swings. 445 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,640 You have different kinds of things that are facilitating 446 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:42,320 different movement patterns to accomplish a goal of some kind. 447 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,000 But they may not be quite as direct or specific as some of 448 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,080 the other exercises that are out there and more of a compliment 449 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,960 or a group of like grouping multiple together. 450 00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:56,200 Yeah. So what I take from that is that 451 00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:01,280 there is this unlimited universe of different types of training 452 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,520 and exercises that you could put into your routine. 453 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,160 And the reality of today's episode is that we're not going 454 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:11,240 to be able to say everybody should do this specific part of 455 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,400 this universe. That's not how it's going to be 456 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,960 able to work. That's why working with somebody 457 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,440 who knows the science behind all this stuff and can implement it 458 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,000 within your training can be super valuable to you, 459 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:26,200 particularly given things like your age or given your injury 460 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,320 history or other things that they're able to see within your 461 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,280 mechanics or whatever it is. So before we go further, I want 462 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:33,920 to pitch this question to you, Matt. 463 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:38,120 How do you think think that our needs for this sort of training 464 00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:39,800 that's not running? So maybe the strength and 465 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,280 conditioning, the lifting side of things, how do you feel like 466 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,800 that changes over the lifespan? Do you always need the same kind 467 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,920 of thing, or are there things that we're seeing that may 468 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,880 change what we need at different times in our life? 469 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,160 That's a great question since I'm literally writing research 470 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:54,760 and manuscripts on that right now. 471 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:01,280 Very complex question. I think some of these things are 472 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,360 when you're it's, it's always good to work on being a 473 00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:06,720 well-rounded athlete. Obviously in a perfect world, if 474 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,520 you have unlimited time and energy, you'll be able to do all 475 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:10,760 this stuff. But unfortunately that's really 476 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:12,720 not how it works. So we have to be very realistic 477 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,760 that there's only so many hours we can run. 478 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,080 There's only so many hours we can cross train when, you know, 479 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,240 have school, work, life, everything, what have you that 480 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:21,560 we also have to bounce about with. 481 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,120 We're not professional athletes and we are not, this is not a 482 00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:26,440 discussion on for the professional athletes and 483 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,200 obviously listen to this, but we're talking to both them and 484 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,600 everyone, right? So you're going to be bound by 485 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,400 what time you have to do this. So when it comes to being 486 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,040 efficient when you're younger, it'll vary depending on like, 487 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,240 hey, how much, how much mileage can you handle? 488 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:42,360 What's the volume you can handle? 489 00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:45,040 Should you be doing strength training when you're younger? 490 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,400 Absolutely. It's one of the few things we 491 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,680 know that might influence injury risk, which one of the few 492 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,160 things that we know does actually outside of training 493 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:54,800 that can improve running economy. 494 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,680 It is a nice to have a lot of people get away with it. 495 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:00,480 There's lots of people like I never strength train. 496 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,240 They still perform really well. Great, cool, awesome. 497 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,600 As you get older, I would argue it actually becomes much more 498 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,160 important to strength train because not only are you looking 499 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,200 at running a performance and economy and all this kind of 500 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:17,360 stuff, you also have some like biomechanical and some muscular 501 00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:19,240 changes and body system changes that are happening. 502 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,640 Like as we get older, it is unfortunately, if you're not 503 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,520 training, it is normal for us to lose muscle mass. 504 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,920 It's normal for us to lose a greater ratio amount of strength 505 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,200 relative to that muscle mass and a greater amount of power 506 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:37,400 relative to that strength loss. So the greatest thing that will 507 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,760 offset that and actually, no matter what age you are, not 508 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,240 only can you slow that down and actually, but you can also 509 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,560 reverse some of those changes to a certain degree. 510 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,120 Like that's where as you get older, it becomes way more 511 00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:50,600 important to make sure that you're lifting doing heavier. 512 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,040 So and that doesn't mean you'd be the gym for 8 hours. 513 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:57,480 It means you need a good like 1020 minute routine, maybe 2-3 514 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:02,160 things you're lifting heavy, low Rep, like decent set. 515 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,840 But power and strength development as you get older 516 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,640 becomes it's not an option anymore. 517 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,440 As a as a young person, it's like, we really encourage you to 518 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,520 do this, but a lot of people get away with it as you get older 519 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:13,880 because of the changes that are happening. 520 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,360 That is where things are going to really change. 521 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:17,680 Like this is no longer an option. 522 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,680 You absolutely need to be doing this in whatever form at a gym 523 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:22,680 at home. There's lots of resources things 524 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,280 you can use, but you got to be pulling some weight. 525 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,600 The same thing can be said of like and just talking to David 526 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,600 mentioning cross training. That also might change as you 527 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,480 get older. Some people it'll and this is 528 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:33,640 actually the same for younger people. 529 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:35,320 Some people can handle a lot of mileage. 530 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,880 Some people can't. You go what can your body hand 531 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,520 you'll running volume wise and what can you all can you 532 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,600 continue to build elsewhere if that time is available? 533 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,000 I know a lot of masters runners who are, you know, being very 534 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:47,920 smart about their training. You know what I can't really 535 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,160 handle seven days a week of running. 536 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,840 So I'm inter dispersing other training to support when I'm 537 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,320 doing and they're still running really fast. 538 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,280 So strength training as you get older is absolutely non 539 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:58,800 negotiable. As a young person it's 540 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,400 encouraged but but you might be able to get without it. 541 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,560 But that's as you age, some things change. 542 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,480 I think the other thing that I think about through the lifespan 543 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,440 is what types of injuries happen at different ages. 544 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,120 So when we look at injury prevalence, we see younger 545 00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:17,880 people primarily, not primarily, but a higher ratio of bone 546 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,760 stress injuries and bone related injuries. 547 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,360 As you get older, into the master's age, you're looking at 548 00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:25,720 more tendon and soft tissue related and injuries. 549 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,760 And that's where I think that you could tailor some of your 550 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:30,280 training. If you have a limited amount of 551 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,960 time, if you're younger, if you're a high school, college, 552 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,360 if you're in that age range or you're still skeletally 553 00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:38,400 developing, that's where some plyometric work is maybe going 554 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,280 to be where you should spend your time to give the bone 555 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,520 stimulus and multidirectional movement, all of that kind of 556 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,960 jazz. And when you get older, you're 557 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:51,360 thinking about how do we load tendons to basically no matter 558 00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:54,760 what stage you're in, it's how do I improve tissue resilience 559 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,600 for the tissues that I need to be more resilient in my phase of 560 00:26:58,600 --> 00:26:59,960 life. So that's one of the things I 561 00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:01,120 think about. Matt, something popped up in 562 00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:03,520 your. Head, I would disagree that I 563 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,560 think as you yeah, I would agree with you actually. 564 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,200 So as your younger plyos can be really helping, you know, with 565 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,880 that as you get older, I really think you need both because one 566 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,440 of the things we lose is, is power development, but you also 567 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,720 need the heavily slow resistance training because you're also 568 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,960 thinking, Hey, my, my tendons are changing. 569 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,360 I get older and like we got to keep that resiliency build that 570 00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:27,120 stiffness back because you can lose that, but you still need to 571 00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:29,440 be working on power generation. That doesn't mean you do 1000 572 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,480 hops, but even some double egg things once or twice a week. 573 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,000 Just can I jump? Can I do this a little bit? 574 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,760 I'm an encourage, but I I agree that, you know, the only 575 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,680 individuals can get a lot more out of like the intense hopping 576 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,760 and things like that just for appropriate loading. 577 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,120 I would also at a younger age, I feel like you can get away a lot 578 00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:49,880 more with double leg stuff because double leg heavy 579 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,560 weighted exercises tend to be a little bit better at building 580 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,000 bone compared to single leg stuff. 581 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,760 So again, just thinking about what are the tissues that are 582 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,360 changing you totally right. Younger athletes and have a 583 00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:02,000 little bit more high risk for bone stress stuff, little bit 584 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,960 more knee stuff. Older individuals have a little 585 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,960 bit more hip and Achilles calf, ankle kind of stuff. 586 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,120 And so tailoring that to what you know the risk factors are 587 00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:12,640 for your pop, your age, or just you as an individual. 588 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,960 Knowing your history I think is really important. 589 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:16,880 Yeah. And just to just to say this one 590 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,640 more time, when you think about bone building exercises, you can 591 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:25,400 look at plyometrics and heavy like heavy, heavy resistance 592 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,560 training that's getting like 85% of your Max. 593 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,040 So we're, we're talking heavy stuff, lower Rep. 594 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,400 The next question, David, that I have for you is a little bit 595 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,840 similar question of like how do things change depending on this 596 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,520 factor? But now the factor is what type 597 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,120 of athlete you are. So let's say you're somebody 598 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,520 who's doing short distance, shorter distance, like 5K or 599 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,080 even like mile stuff compared to someone who's and that's still 600 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,440 long. I know I just like 2. 100M, 601 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,240 yeah. We're still talking endurance 602 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:56,400 distance. Not. 603 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:57,880 Sprinters. Yep. 604 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:02,040 So short, short distance, short endurance distance stuff. 605 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,000 So yeah, probably down to like the mile. 606 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,760 Yeah. So you're shorter, shorter in 607 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,600 quotes there versus somebody who's doing ultras. 608 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:14,400 How do you conceptualize what's valuable in that universe of of 609 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,120 strength training or strength and conditioning for those 610 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:18,760 different people and what they should consider? 611 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,720 Yeah. So 2 very different events, 612 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,040 right. So when we look at the two 613 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,840 different events, Andrea and I did a podcast on this actually a 614 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,080 little while back, but talking about different energy systems 615 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,440 and how that plays into this. And you're going to be creating 616 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,080 a lot more lactate. You're going to be doing a lot 617 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,280 more power when you're doing some of these shorter distance 618 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,760 events. And you have to be able to have 619 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,400 some resilience in the musculature for those types of 620 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,640 things. But you need power like that is 621 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,560 kind of the root of what you're doing. 622 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,640 And so I would argue like you really got to have good tendon 623 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,960 stiffness and you got to be able to spring off those legs if it's 624 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:03,680 going to be 800 to 5K. And I think especially with 5K, 625 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,400 when you see like some running economy benefits, even just in 626 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,280 the 1 to 2%, you can see people make swings sometimes of 10 to 627 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,240 maybe even 30 seconds sometimes, depending on where their PRS 628 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,000 are. And you see some of these people 629 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,360 make these breakout seasons. And the only thing that changed 630 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,400 was just some weight training, right? 631 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:25,400 So I would say like heavy slow resistance and plyometrics 632 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,240 mainly for the shorter distance crowd. 633 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,920 If I really had to pick and be specific, when we start looking 634 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,480 at the ultra crowd, they're working endurance all day long. 635 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:41,480 So I don't really think there's, I mean, there's benefit to doing 636 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,120 anything outside of fronting and lifting. 637 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:50,680 But to be clear, like you're already, if you're doing 2 638 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,040 back-to-back long runs on a weekend, which is not uncommon 639 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,720 for a competitive ultra runner to go and just drop, you know, 640 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,600 30 to 45 miles in two days, right? 641 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,440 Like that can very easily happen. 642 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,560 You're doing plenty of endurance and you know, I won't say 643 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,520 damage, but musculature, you're breaking down muscles and trying 644 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:12,920 to build them up. And then from that end, you're 645 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,920 not going to get that much out of doing massive, long, low 646 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,800 weight, high Rep sets. It's just not going to give you 647 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,320 that much bang for your buck on that. 648 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,000 So for them it's. Which feels, which feels 649 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,640 counterintuitive at 1st, at first encounter of that idea. 650 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,840 It's like, oh, but I'm an endurance runner. 651 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:33,760 I should do endurance strength training. 652 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,160 And you're kind of pushing against that notion. 653 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,200 Keep going. I just that that probably may 654 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,920 hit people like wait, wait a minute. 655 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:41,480 Yeah, yeah. That might actually be a big 656 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,200 shock thing. Where to us, we, we're like, 657 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:45,600 well, duh. And like other people are like, 658 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:50,760 wait, no, please elaborate. Yeah, yeah, you're, you're doing 659 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,880 plenty of it already. Your musculature is tired. 660 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,160 You're just kind of getting it more tired and you're not really 661 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,240 stimulating. You're not giving a big enough 662 00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,520 stimulus to actually generate enough growth. 663 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,200 And now you're just adding tired on top of tired. 664 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,120 Like it, you'll still get some some muscular gains out of it, 665 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:10,680 but it you could do it better. And so when we look at the long 666 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,040 distance stuff, we're Matt was alluding to it earlier, but kind 667 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,920 of doing the heavy slow resistance training, you can do, 668 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,160 you know, three sets of three to five, you're not a really high 669 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:25,080 weight and some rest in between and get a massive neurologic 670 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:29,480 stimulus to your muscles, to your tendons, like and give it a 671 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,840 different way of generating A stimulus to actually grow and 672 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,920 use it differently and build that connection. 673 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:40,000 And you would be surprised at how much easier running can feel 674 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,800 even for long periods of time when you're doing that, because 675 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,560 now you have something that's kind of in that semi maximal 676 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,800 realm that makes your submaximal efforts, which is what you're 677 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,280 normally doing, feel even more submaximal. 678 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,160 So that is one way to complement that. 679 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,520 I think another thing too, especially with the ultras, a 680 00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,320 lot of them are trails. So being quick on your feet and 681 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,800 being able to react, I think it's still important. 682 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,200 And so whether it's like side to side hops or different kinds of 683 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,320 balancing exercises or proprioceptive elements, like 684 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,880 doing things that make you react or do something differently. 685 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,920 And if you have a buddy, you could even like have like basic 686 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,200 commands of like they when they say X, you jump left or they say 687 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,000 Y you jump right like, or forward or back, like things 688 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:26,520 like that. And then now you're having to 689 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,120 react to make a decision while you're doing it. 690 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,200 Like it sounds kind of silly, but it trains your brain to 691 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,160 actually make decisions based on a another stimuli besides just 692 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,040 your eyes or like something that you're, you're having to react 693 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,240 to something which you have to do quite a bit in the trails. 694 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:44,120 So you're practicing the actual art of the running in the trail 695 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,200 running and the ultra running. Like all that stuff you're doing 696 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:47,880 this is just complementing those things. 697 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,760 Like I was saying earlier, none of it just doing it one time is 698 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,000 going to necessarily make things better. 699 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,880 But over time, you can actually start to see some improvements 700 00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:00,200 in how you react, how you move, and how you respond from a 701 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,080 metabolic standpoint as well. Does that answer the question? 702 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:04,600 Did you? It does, Matt. 703 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,560 Did you have something? You kind of raised your finger. 704 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,679 Yeah, I'm glad David and you, David kind of mentioned this as 705 00:34:10,679 --> 00:34:11,679 well. I've always actually got, I've 706 00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:14,040 got into arguments with some of my patients that I've worked 707 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,840 with that are ultra marathoners going like why would I not train 708 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,159 in the weight room to do high Rep things? 709 00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:22,800 In my opinion, David Bass alluded to this and some of the 710 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,480 evidence out there is that you're already getting a massive 711 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,239 stimulus in that area. If we do more of that, I can't 712 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,280 promise you're going to adequately recover because you 713 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,000 need, there's weight training, strengthening the all these 714 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,520 other things are adjuncts. You're running is still your 715 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,080 primary method of training. Your weight training should 716 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,120 support that and not take away from the recovery time. 717 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,639 It's the same thing why I've always suggested for a lot of 718 00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:48,520 athletes going, if you're going to strength train, it shouldn't 719 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,440 be that long. You shouldn't be spending more 720 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,199 than 2030 minutes doing a lot of the stuff because if you start 721 00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:56,000 going longer, unless you're doing specific rehab, that's 722 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,240 going to be a little different. You start going longer, you 723 00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:01,280 might start digging in to if, especially if you're you're 724 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,160 performing and you're getting ready for race and stuff like 725 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,120 that, you're going to pull away from your ability to recover 726 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,520 adequately. So like programming this 727 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,280 appropriately, understanding like the overarching amount of 728 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,040 volume of like total work it like or exercise is really 729 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,480 important. But I would definitely agree 730 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,120 that like 4 ultra marathon, because you're doing so much, 731 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,360 you're trying to recover from repetitive loads. 732 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,760 I unless again, rehab is going to be different. 733 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,040 If you're preparing a muscle that has been injured to go back 734 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,400 to that, that makes sense. But for you want to create a 735 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,600 different stimulus that supports what you're doing, almost like 736 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,160 cross training. And so building you're not going 737 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,280 to get that same stimulus with high repetition work that you 738 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:45,120 are with the low repetition, you know, high weight stuff that's 739 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,160 going to build the tenant resiliency, bone resiliency, 740 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,920 muscle resiliency. You'd also want to replicate 741 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:52,840 that. I get specificity of training, 742 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:54,720 but that this is where this varies. 743 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,160 I will also say I'm also with David, like typically I don't do 744 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,400 unstable surface training because we know that from that 745 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,080 training is it's like that's where a specific training really 746 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,120 works, where if you do unstable surface training, you're not on 747 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,680 a stable surface, you're not going to get that carryover of 748 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,320 skill. Whereas a lot of trail running, 749 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,440 if somebody's had ankle sprains, things like that. 750 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,960 I'm like, I think like David mentioned, proprioceptive stuff 751 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:22,280 or some stuff on an unstable is isn't a bad idea because that's 752 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,800 where you live and breathe. And so yeah, I think people are 753 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,120 very surprised to go why you not giving me a ton of reps while 754 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:30,440 giving this very unique stimulus. 755 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,400 And the goal is to go, I want to give you any stimulus because 756 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,680 the higher repetition stuff isn't going to get us the 757 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,000 stimulus we want because you already do it so much. 758 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:45,040 And it's different than like your, your mile or your 800 or 759 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:48,560 your 1500. You know, your your 3K5K athlete 760 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,040 just because there is so much more power involved. 761 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,000 Yeah, you're definitely going to have to work on that higher 762 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:59,120 level power really pushing some weight just because of of it's a 763 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,480 little bit more specific. But when you have that much time 764 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,720 on your feet as an ultra marathoner, I think it's really 765 00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:06,080 important to have a different stimulus. 766 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,360 And I've always questioned myself going, is it just because 767 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,640 I'm biased toward, you know, some of the things that we know 768 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,200 make a little bit better changes for bone tissue health or, you 769 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,800 know, am I missing the specificity training point with 770 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,880 some of these athletes? So just a struggle that I have. 771 00:37:21,720 --> 00:37:25,040 The last thing that I want to point out on this topic is Matt, 772 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:29,000 you recorded an episode with Rich Willie a while back now and 773 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,520 if you have not listened to it, I highly recommend you jump back 774 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,440 there. They go into a big conversation 775 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,120 about very specific exercises for long distance. 776 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:39,480 They were talking. He was talking about some of his 777 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,880 work with ultra runners, but he gave very practical advice for 778 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,320 how to get the most out of your lifting without being in the gym 779 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,600 for a long time. I distinctly remember him 780 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,920 talking about 10 minutes in and out for some of these things 781 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,960 because you just want to get what you can without taxi in 782 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,480 your system more than it's already being taxed because 783 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,040 you're already at you're like redlining the whole time of 784 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:06,280 like, where can I push the envelope but not go too far? 785 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,680 And so you don't want to waste your time in the gym burning 786 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,160 unnecessary calories. So he gives some really 787 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,400 practical advice where in a lot of ways, less is more. 788 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,720 It's just what is that less that fits into your routine? 789 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:20,520 Yeah. I will also say for the 790 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,440 clinicians out there, if you have not, if you're interested 791 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,520 in running and you're treating runners, if you have not taken 792 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,800 Rich Willie's course, you were doing yourself a disservice. 793 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,400 You should go do it. He is a phenomenal speaker and 794 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,080 also a phenomenal educator and clinician, so you should 795 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:35,760 definitely just want to shout that out. 796 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,560 That's a good idea. He's also a great human being. 797 00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:42,040 This is off topic but when we finished that podcast we kept 798 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:43,800 talking for another 2-3 hours afterwards. 799 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:45,240 He is awesome. That's cool. 800 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,080 All right, So we're going to go into the last part of this 801 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:50,600 podcast. We're going to try to give 802 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,200 really specific practical advice, really talking about our 803 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,000 top things that we would say runners should do. 804 00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,000 If you had to pick something, we may all have slightly different 805 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,040 takes on it, and that's the point. 806 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:05,120 But before we give this specific advice, this is not prescriptive 807 00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:08,800 for sure, because as we said at the beginning, everybody's going 808 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,640 to have different needs. The second thing is that when we 809 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,640 start to talk about these specific topics like lifting, or 810 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,720 if you start to talk about nutrition or if you start to 811 00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:19,320 talk about sleep, sometimes it feels like, oh, this is the 812 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:20,920 thing, this is the silver bullet. 813 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,000 It's not the silver bullet. This is a big part of the 814 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,520 puzzle. And if we lift but don't do 815 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:29,520 nutrition to back it up, it's pointless. 816 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,520 If we lift and we do nutrition, but we're not sleeping at all 817 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,160 and we have high stress, nothing's going to work. 818 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:36,880 So it's all part of the big puzzle. 819 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,360 Just remember, it's way more nuanced, but we are going to go 820 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,520 into some specifics. So we're going to talk about 821 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,400 like our top three things that we would do. 822 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,120 And maybe you're just like leading philosophy. 823 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,400 When you think about guiding people to doing some sort of 824 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,280 training, who wants to start? Who's ready to rock? 825 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:55,960 Go ahead, man. I'm going to do this. 826 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,000 I'm going to cheat. So, so remind me the question 827 00:39:58,000 --> 00:39:59,760 again, because I was like, I got it in my head. 828 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:01,320 I was thinking. Just go ahead. 829 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:02,720 Just whatever. Just send it. 830 00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:05,920 Right, top, just top three things, you know, top 3 or 4 831 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:07,600 things you want to do. So set up a little program. 832 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,520 Yeah, so this is not prescriptive and obviously as 833 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,840 Nathan said, if you have an injury or rehabbing, this is 834 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,640 going to be totally different. But I'm also really big fan of 835 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,080 keeping this as simple as possible. 836 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:19,400 And here's how I'm going to break this down. 837 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:24,640 There are two major phases of running. 838 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,920 There's a third one that I'll address in a second, but two 839 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,360 major phases. There is the shock absorption 840 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:31,880 phase. That's where you land on the 841 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:33,120 ground. That's where you're dealing with 842 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,640 forces of absorbing them, handling that stuff. 843 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,880 Then after the second phase of that, there's a middle phase 844 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:41,240 where you transition to the two disease. 845 00:40:41,240 --> 00:40:43,200 But the second part of this is propulsion. 846 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,160 That's where you are taking a lot of that energy. 847 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,000 And David alluded this earlier that a lot of running is the 848 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,240 shock absorption phase and then how efficient you are at turning 849 00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:53,240 that energy into propulsion, right? 850 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,720 So there's that propulsion phase where now you are pushing off 851 00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,520 the ground. The final phase, I know I said 852 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,400 to the swing phase where you're recovering the limb that that 853 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,520 becomes really, really, really important as you get start to 854 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,160 get faster and faster and faster. 855 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,840 But for my purposes, I'm going to talk really about the loading 856 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:16,640 response and propulsion phases. Now, the reason I'm starting 857 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,320 with this is that's kind of where I base a lot of the thing, 858 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,560 the simplicity of this stuff. So first thing from a loading 859 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:28,400 shock absorption standpoint, I think either some variation of a 860 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:32,760 squat is really good, be it a split squat, which I'm a really, 861 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:34,720 really big fan of because it puts you in a little bit of that 862 00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:37,080 running position, right? And all this stuff, by the way, 863 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,120 is pushing some heavyweight except for the last thing, 864 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:40,800 right? Getting some good amount of 865 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,120 weight, some kettle. I'm a big fan of kettle bells 866 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:44,720 because they're easy to have around. 867 00:41:44,720 --> 00:41:47,440 They're not that expensive on Amazon on or some heavier 868 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,360 dumbbells to the point that you're not able to do more than 869 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,800 like 6 to 8 reps I would prefer it in that 4:00 to 6:00, but I 870 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:58,280 want this to be in the strength realm of work and like higher 871 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,640 set, but a split squat, a step down. 872 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,480 Any of those two things are going to be really, really good 873 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:08,000 because they're going to work on hip control, quadriceps, hip 874 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,520 extension, all really, really good things. 875 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,720 Now if you have a little bit more trouble with pelvic 876 00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:15,920 stability, the single leg versions going to be great. 877 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:19,360 If you just need to build strength, the double egg version 878 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:20,560 with higher leg going to be good. 879 00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:24,040 But some form of a squat is going to be a really really good 880 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,280 thing. I just prefer either the step 881 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,480 down for me person right now with a split squat. 882 00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,680 The second thing I'm going to go through is the propulsion phase. 883 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,520 So I really think you need to think about some form of a calf 884 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:40,160 raise in a whatever position and it needs to be heavier. 885 00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,440 It needs to be weighted. I'd really prefer if you did it 886 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,560 single leg just because of the inherent intrinsics that get 887 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,280 worked a little bit more if you do that position. 888 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,680 But you got to load this and you got to load this through a full 889 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:54,080 range, especially as you if you the higher up you get like 890 00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,400 higher levels of like higher, I mean like greater levels of 891 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:57,840 plantar flexion, your toe pointing. 892 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,000 Not only do you get Achille at least calf, you also get a 893 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,320 little bit of post tib in there as well as you slowly supinate 894 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,640 at the end range. Although not everybody does that 895 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,720 depending on pathology. But that would be good because 896 00:43:08,720 --> 00:43:10,920 you want to main take because your calves are the primary 897 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,120 propulsive muscles in running, regardless of the speed that you 898 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:15,680 go at. Your hip extensors kick in a 899 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:17,760 little bit more at higher speeds. 900 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,440 But your calves are one of the most important propulsive things 901 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,960 and maintaining a healthy Achilles and healthy calves is 902 00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,000 really, really important. So single a calf raise of some 903 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,760 kind, be it normal height office, if you don't have 904 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:31,880 insertional Achilles synopathy, you can have the ankle range of 905 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,880 motion, something along those lines. 906 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,880 The other two exercises are going to vary a little bit. 907 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,800 I'm I'm really big fan of step UPS for the hip extensors 908 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,160 because it's the step UPS one of the best exercises for that. 909 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,440 And best is a relative turn because actually that that study 910 00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,600 was EMG and there are a lot of limitations with doing EMG 911 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,400 stuff. But the step up is a great 912 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,360 climbing activity that works the hips and the knees and the lower 913 00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,720 extremity in a way that gets those typic sensors kicking on. 914 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,320 But you know, the last one is going to be some form of a jump. 915 00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,880 And right now my research is looking at what's the difference 916 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,480 between us a vertical and a horizontal hop. 917 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,400 And I don't have enough. I have a pilot study that I'm, 918 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,480 I'm saving at the moment. So we'll reveal some of the 919 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,040 results of that in a little bit because I, I need more subjects 920 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,520 and 10 subjects is not enough. But we got the groundwork, which 921 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:24,480 is great, but I don't know if it matters at this point. 922 00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:29,120 You need to be jumping in some way and it need, you can't just 923 00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,520 jump into no pun intended to single leg stuff. 924 00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:33,320 I would encourage people to think about a progression of 925 00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:35,160 going can I do a double limb jump? 926 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,960 Can I get comfortable with this? OK, Can I do a single leg like 927 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,880 just a little mini hop? Can I get better at now a single 928 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,680 leg generating some power? So the final thing is going some 929 00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:49,840 kind of hopping or power exercise, slowly progressing to 930 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:55,160 doing a little bit more height for a little bit more distance 931 00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,120 depending on what your goals are. 932 00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:59,600 Great. David, do you want to go next? 933 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,200 Yeah, that was 4 things by the way. 934 00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:07,320 But I I did. Say I'm going to cheat and do 4. 935 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,680 There's a little overlap with the step up and like something 936 00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:12,120 like the split squat and stuff like that. 937 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,520 You could easily modify the split squat to be a little bit 938 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:18,040 more hip dominant, but you are totally right, that was that was 939 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,160 for some kind of shock absorption, some kind of 940 00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:22,560 propulsion and. Some kind of hop. 941 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:24,320 I'm just trolling just because I always do. 942 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,800 When we look, I'm going to like look at it from like 3 basic 943 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,120 categories, very similar to Matt. 944 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,240 I think we all kind of think semi similarly. 945 00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:38,200 So you'll probably hear a lot of overlap amongst this, but I 946 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,920 think first and foremost, yeah, strength and neuromuscular 947 00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,040 stimulus. So heavy, slow resistance of 948 00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:45,920 some kind. That can be a squat. 949 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:47,480 That could be a Bulgarian split squat. 950 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,920 That can be a calf raise. Incorporate something that is 951 00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:53,840 heavy and you can change it by the day depending on what you 952 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,040 want to work on. You know, and if you're doing 953 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:57,880 this three times a week or so, like that's perfect. 954 00:45:57,880 --> 00:45:59,160 You just touch a little something each time. 955 00:45:59,720 --> 00:46:03,240 And so that's some kind of heavy slow resistance exercise, really 956 00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:06,400 load the tendon, really get a big neuromuscular response 957 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:10,360 there. 2nd is working on that, you know that propulsion that 958 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:12,920 Matt was talking about and that's springiness as well. 959 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:17,680 So some kind of a plyo, whether that be two legs, single leg, 960 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:19,760 side to side, you can have fun with this. 961 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,920 Even if you wanted to do some people in some cultures like 962 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:27,000 we'll do skipping laps where they'll literally just skip 963 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,400 around a field and that will be what that's their plyos for the 964 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:31,760 day like. And then a couple of jumps and 965 00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:33,240 springs because skip is a plyo, right? 966 00:46:33,240 --> 00:46:34,560 Like you're springing off that tendon. 967 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,360 It may not be a fancy big formulaic thing, but like just 968 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,720 the literal act of doing it, you are springing off of it. 969 00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:44,840 So heavy slow resistance, a PLIO of some kind. 970 00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:50,000 And my third one, I'm still a fan of both frontal and 971 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,080 transverse plane stability. I like to incorporate it in some 972 00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,280 way or some capacity and one way. 973 00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:00,240 Depending on the capabilities of the individual. 974 00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:05,520 These can vary widely, but when we look at frontal plane 975 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,080 basically being your kind of side to side motion there, 976 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,440 that's going to be working like your hip abductors, that's going 977 00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:12,680 to be working some of your core musculature to kind of keep you 978 00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:16,040 from doing too much side to side or dropping movements. 979 00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,400 I like side planks, especially with side planks with lifts, if 980 00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,120 you can, you're going to incorporate a little bit of 981 00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:23,600 upper body stability as well in there. 982 00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:26,440 You're going to get that entire lateral core and oblique. 983 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,000 You're going to hit your hip abductors on both sides. 984 00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,040 One's got to hold you up and the other one's got to lift up 985 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:32,600 right. So you're kind of hitting a lot 986 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:33,920 of things at the same time there. 987 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,080 If you can't do that, you just break it up in some components, 988 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,920 whether it's a sidelining, abduction, side plank, you just 989 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:40,040 play around with different things. 990 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,320 And then the other one would be like the, Oh my goodness, 991 00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,320 transverse plane. So getting some kind of a 992 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,120 rotatory motion on that hip because we do have to stabilize 993 00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:50,800 every single step when we do that. 994 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,440 I like doing airplanes for that where you're kind of going 995 00:47:53,720 --> 00:47:56,280 single leg Romanian deadlift base position. 996 00:47:56,280 --> 00:48:00,160 For those that don't know what I'm talking about, if you are 997 00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,200 standing on 2 feet and you're just looking straight forward, 998 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,800 you lift one leg up, you keep your chest upright, neutral 999 00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:08,120 spine. Nate's going to demonstrate. 1000 00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:10,800 I love this. Is he, is he demonstrating? 1001 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:11,440 Kind of. Yeah, yeah. 1002 00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,920 What do you want me to do? Yeah, single leg Romania 1003 00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:16,840 deadlift. Yeah, don't unplug yourself. 1004 00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:19,240 We have a slight lag on the video. 1005 00:48:19,240 --> 00:48:21,280 There, There we go. There we go. 1006 00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,000 Yep. So you're doing a hip pinch. 1007 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,320 So not you have a very slight bend in your knee, you're not 1008 00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,120 going super deep into it, but you're folding at the hip and 1009 00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:33,040 keeping a neutral spine and now you're getting an elongation of 1010 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,680 that entire posterior chain. So you are working your glutes 1011 00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,520 and hamstrings as well, and then now you're rotating at your 1012 00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,120 pelvis and kind of doing a tilt. That's the airplane part of 1013 00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:42,320 this. And now you're hitting those 1014 00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,440 deep hip rotators and you're going in and you're going out 1015 00:48:46,240 --> 00:48:50,000 and you, it's surprisingly hard to do, especially if you aren't 1016 00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,080 holding on to something. So you could even just do a 1017 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:53,880 couple rounds of five, boom, there you go. 1018 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:58,680 You got some work in. So again, 3 categories. 1019 00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:00,440 Choose a little bit of whatever you want in those three 1020 00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,920 categories. It's more than three exercises, 1021 00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:04,520 but it's 3 categories, 3 categories. 1022 00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:09,960 I just I just gave that exercise to a patient who is 86. 1023 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,160 Let's go. And she is doing phenomenal. 1024 00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:17,680 She's a ex US pro cyclist who's getting into hiking. 1025 00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:19,680 Jose was having a little bit of symptoms in her knee that 1026 00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,200 actually was referred from her hip. 1027 00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:25,800 And she is doing awesome and just reminds me every time of 1028 00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:30,160 like you meet the individual where they're at, all the 1029 00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,040 clinicians out there, all the people out there that might be 1030 00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,320 going through something or make sure that whoever you're working 1031 00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:35,640 with is beating you where you're at and not. 1032 00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:39,480 Stereotyping 100%. Waited. 1033 00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,720 Waited by the way, because doing them without weight is is too 1034 00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:45,680 easy for her. Well, it's funny, we did not 1035 00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:48,320 tell each other what our categories were going to be, but 1036 00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:52,520 as David said, we we definitely think similarly on some of these 1037 00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,200 things. Before I give my categories or 1038 00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:59,720 my specific exercises, I think my leading philosophy on this is 1039 00:49:59,720 --> 00:50:04,080 the best, you know, strength training routine is the one that 1040 00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:05,600 you actually do. Yes, Sir. 1041 00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:10,680 So I don't care what it is, if you're doing something, it's 1042 00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:14,160 better than nothing. And the reason I say that is in 1043 00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:18,320 part due to a study that came out in 2024 where they, and it's 1044 00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,640 not a perfect study, but they gave, they had a couple 1045 00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,320 different groups. One group they gave exercises 1046 00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,560 for proximal muscles, One they gave it for kind of like calf 1047 00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:29,160 and foot, and then another one they had like a stretching 1048 00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:32,120 program. And the only group that had 1049 00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,760 decrease in injury prevalence or like incidents within the study 1050 00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,400 was a prospective study. The only people who had a 1051 00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,040 decreased injury risk were the ones who did proximal muscle 1052 00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,080 stuff, but not everybody who did it. 1053 00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:45,840 It was only the high compliance folks in that group. 1054 00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:49,240 So once you weren't in high compliance, which meant doing it 1055 00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:53,440 greater than 80% of the time, it didn't make any difference in 1056 00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:57,280 your injury risk. And I think my purpose for 1057 00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,520 myself, for a lot of the runners that I work with, the purpose of 1058 00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,800 strength training is, again, to keep you running and also 1059 00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,360 running well, but ultimately keep you running because if 1060 00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,760 you're consistent with your running, that's going to be your 1061 00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,240 best performance enhancer. It's just being consistent. 1062 00:51:11,240 --> 00:51:14,520 So like I said, the best program is the one that you actually do 1063 00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:17,280 in that realm. It's good to keep it simple. 1064 00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:18,840 I like that we have 3 categories. 1065 00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,840 Mine are very simple. I won't I won't belabor that 1066 00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:25,000 much. 1 is a heavy slow resistance type exercise, 1067 00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,000 primarily hitting some of these proximal muscles. 1068 00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,360 So in my mind that would be like a Bulgarian split squat that 1069 00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,160 eventually gets loaded. However, if you have not done 1070 00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,120 strength training, in my opinion you should do body weight for 1071 00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:39,040 like 4 to six weeks. Let your neuromuscular system 1072 00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:40,840 catch up. Or like super light weights 1073 00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:45,080 don't actually go to failure yet like let your body catch up 1074 00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:48,280 because it really taxes your musculoskeletal system in a new 1075 00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,360 way. So I would say if you have not 1076 00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,840 strength trained regularly, give yourself four to six weeks of no 1077 00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:56,840 to very lightweight and then figure out what your one rack 1078 00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:59,640 one Rep Max is and start jumping into that stuff. 1079 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:05,080 The second category, because the calf is so vital for propulsion, 1080 00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,920 I also had like a weighted calf raise in there. 1081 00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:11,960 Pretty simple, just get it, get it loaded and get some calf 1082 00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,040 raises in. And then the third one is some 1083 00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:17,440 sort of plyometric. The one that I had was just a 1084 00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,800 double leg off a box, hit the ground and jump and just have 1085 00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,160 kind of that reflexive jump. But you could have it be 1086 00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:25,920 whatever you want, some kind of jump, some sort of heavy 1087 00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,240 proximal muscle work, and then something for your calf. 1088 00:52:29,240 --> 00:52:33,640 So pretty similar between all of us, which is in some ways either 1089 00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,880 we just live in our own little echo chamber, but I also think 1090 00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:40,240 we're grounded in the science and the research behind it. 1091 00:52:40,240 --> 00:52:43,720 And it's cool when it validates itself in this way, if that's 1092 00:52:43,720 --> 00:52:47,080 the right word, not being too researchy right now. 1093 00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:50,200 So thank you all for joining us for this conversation. 1094 00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,240 Do you have anything else you want to add, Matt or David, 1095 00:52:53,240 --> 00:52:56,560 before we shut it down? Do you know what the record is 1096 00:52:56,560 --> 00:53:00,640 for the most like game clinching shots are in a playoff run 1097 00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:04,280 because tires. Halliburton is on one right now. 1098 00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:08,000 Does he have like 6 or 7 this this playoffs so. 1099 00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,120 Something like that. Time's time stamping this. 1100 00:53:10,720 --> 00:53:13,720 The Pacers are playing in game two of the NBA Finals right now. 1101 00:53:13,720 --> 00:53:15,360 I don't even know the score. Don't tell me, Dave. 1102 00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,800 I don't need this. I'm going to pull it up and 1103 00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:18,760 watch. It we're on the podcast, I don't 1104 00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:25,040 have nothing on right now, so. Yeah, it's it's he's insane. 1105 00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:31,760 If he was less annoying I because he beats the bucks. 1106 00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:34,080 That's the main reason if I'm being honest. 1107 00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:35,400 And then the second. Thing. 1108 00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:40,640 It is 100%. I'm 100% bias against Tyrese 1109 00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,040 Halliburton. But he likes to smack talk. 1110 00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:45,160 He does this little choking thing and he's just kind of 1111 00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:47,800 annoying. But mainly because he beats the 1112 00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,400 Bucks and because I like the Bucks and it's like, it's funny. 1113 00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,320 Because like, no one talks about Indiana. 1114 00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:54,920 And then it's like, oh, here we are, Indiana's here and they're 1115 00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:56,680 not going away. So it's like. 1116 00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:59,840 Yeah, no. I feel like it's validated. 1117 00:53:59,960 --> 00:54:03,640 I feel like it's validated. You guys, I'm sweating through 1118 00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,520 my shirt right now. You want us to, let's wrap this 1119 00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:07,720 up. Plus, people don't want to hear 1120 00:54:07,720 --> 00:54:11,080 us talk about the NBA. Thank you all for joining us for 1121 00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:13,520 this conversation. If there are tons of types of 1122 00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:16,320 exercises we did not talk about today, if there are things that 1123 00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:19,320 you've loved doing, you can drop them in the comments or send us 1124 00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,040 a message. If you've got further questions 1125 00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:23,840 about this, don't feel afraid to e-mail us at 1126 00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:26,880 doctorsofrunning@gmail.com. Thank you for joining us at the 1127 00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:28,400 Round Table. We'll talk to you next time.