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It isn't just hot outside for 
runners this summer season 

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because things are heating up at
Running Warehouse. 

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Hoka is breaking new ground this
month with the introduction of 

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the CLO Rd. our recent podcast 
guest running warehouses. 

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Connor Blaylock called it a 
nimble shoe that makes you feel 

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connected to the ground, and if 
you're running a 5K or 10K with 

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lots of tight turns, you're 
going to feel a lot more 

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confident in it. 
Featuring a PEBA midsole that's 

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light and fast, it's a shoe that
you'll want to put on your 

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shortlist this race season. 
Also, Justin and Running 

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Warehouse is stocking his brand 
new Triumph 21. 

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Last year's version was already 
one of our favorite Trainers of 

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the Year, and this year's 
changes to The Upper have made 

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it even better. 
Get ready to log hundreds of fun

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bouncing miles for your marathon
season ahead. 

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From the Essex Kyano 30 to the 
Hokemock X to new apparel for 

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Rabbit, there's lots of new 
exciting trainers and gear 

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hitting the shelves. 
Find it all today at 

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runningwarehouse.com. 
Hello everyone and welcome to 

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the Docs Running Podcast where 
we, a group of doctors of 

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physical therapy, discuss the 
art and science of running and 

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the stuff that we put on our 
feet today at the Round Table. 

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I'll be your host. 
I'm Nathan and we also have 

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Doctor David Salas with us and 
he is one week away from his 

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wedding day. 
So by the time this releases, 

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he'll be a married man. 
So excited for your for your 

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wedding week. 
You guys feeling ready? 

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I think so. 
I think so. 

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We we put a lot of legwork into 
it up front, you know made sure 

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the daughter eyes cross her T's.
Now it's kind of just cleaning 

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up small things and just 
focusing on enjoying the day. 

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So I think for the most part 
we're we're pretty much there. 

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Great. 
Excited for you. 

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So today on the podcast we have 
we are opening up the mailbag. 

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We have gathered a bunch of 
questions from you all and we're

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excited to dive into those. 
We always find these episodes to

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be very fun and therefore our 
subjective for the day is just. 

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Putting out the feelers for more
questions, what things do you 

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want us to talk about? 
What questions do you have about

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footwear, about training, about 
injuries, about the cross 

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section between those things and
we can put those in our bucket 

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of things that we pull from. 
I should probably use bag 

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because I've said mailbag. 
So we'll put those in our bag 

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that we can pull from at future 
times. 

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But today we have a list of 
questions that David and I are 

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going to run through excited to 
talk through them all. 

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So let's just get started. 
So our first question is from 

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Marissa Runs and they asked. 
I use the same models of shoes. 

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She rotates between them for 
easy and long runs. 

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Should there be a difference and
I'm assuming she means in the 

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models themselves? 
Yeah, I think that's a great 

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question. 
I'm going to assume your name is

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Marissa. 
If your handle is Marissa runs. 

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That's a great question. 
Marissa. 

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I think it depends. 
We say it depends all the time. 

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The way I look at it is these 
shoes are tools, and we say that

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all the time as well. 
If I think it depends on the 

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goal of your long run and what 
you're trying to accomplish. 

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For your easy days, the goal is 
to be easy and some long runs, 

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at least in my training cycles. 
Some are easy, some of them are 

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time on feet where you're just 
going out and you're running for

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2 1/2 hours, 2 hours, whatever 
it is. 

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And in that situation, they can 
totally be the same shoe. 

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I've had plenty of great runs, 
like in the Saucony Ride 16 or 

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the Topo Cyclone 3, just normal 
daily trainers that I do. 

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My shoes in Saucony Triumph have
had some solid long runs in. 

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However, like a day like today, 
I had a 90 minute tempo in the 

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middle of the long run. 
And so I probably don't want to 

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be doing tempos in those shoes. 
Like, could you? 

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Sure. 
But like if I have the means to 

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have another shoe, I will 
probably choose another shoe. 

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So that would be my answer for 
that one. 

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But if the goal is just time on 
feet and getting out there and 

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having a long run, then I think 
it's totally doable to have the 

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same shoe for both of those. 
Yeah, I'd agree. 

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And I think this. 
This question comes from, I 

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don't know if they've been 
following us for a while, but 

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there's a study out there about 
shoe rotations and how that may 

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influence injury risk. 
It came out in 2016 and there 

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haven't been any studies that I 
know of that have come out that 

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have like replicated the 
findings. 

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But what they found in this 
study is that if somebody is 

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using their primary issue less 
than 59% of the time, it can 

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decrease the injury incidents in
the time of the time period of 

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that study by 30, I think it was
31%. 

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So you can have a basically 1/3.
Decrease in injury injury 

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incidents by rotating shoes. 
And in that study they did have 

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two different models, so it's 
not like they were rotating 

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between 2 pairs of the same 
shoe. 

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But what I don't know for sure 
in Marissa's question is if 

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they're asking, hey, I rotate 
between a lot of different shoes

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for some of my workouts and 
stuff, but for my easy runs and 

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my long runs, can I use the same
thing? 

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So for me, if I were in a 
position where I was? 

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Where I was buying my shoes just
to be, frankly, because we're 

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getting sent a lot of things for
tests. 

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What I would do this year is I 
would have a pair of Novoblasts 

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that I would use for my easy 
runs because I like them for 

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that, and I would use them for 
my long runs because I've 

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enjoyed them for that too. 
So I'd have a Novoblast 3, even 

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one pair that I just used for 
both of those. 

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But then I would have a second, 
different model that I would use

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for workouts or other types of 
runs during the week. 

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Just to get a true rotation, 
because the idea right now, 

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operating theory, on why shoe 
rotations help is that it's a 

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slightly different stimulus 
under foot, so it slightly 

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varies the amount of stress or 
strain on the structures under 

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your foot and in your body, and 
so it. 

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To get the benefits of a shoe 
rotation, you need more than 

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just giving the foam a break by 
using the same model for 

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everything. 
But it's really saying find two 

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types of shoes. 
Do different models that you 

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enjoy so that you get a slightly
different stimulus. 

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But if you're already doing 
that, then I would say using the

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same model for your easy runs 
and your long runs if they're 

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both comfortable at those paces.
Go for it. 

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Do you agree with that, David, 
or anything to add on to that? 

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No, I agree. 
And I think the way I 

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interpreted Marissa's question 
was because we have the the 

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question here written out and in
parentheses we see rotate. 

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And so I'm assuming there's 
already a rotation of some kind 

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there and the question is 
doubling the easy and long shoe.

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So I'm guessing for those 
workout days there's something 

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else, and for the race days 
there's probably something else.

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So that was kind of my 
assumption upon answering that 

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question and in doing so, I feel
like we are both on the same 

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page there, I agree. 
Yeah, and and my take too is 

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like, I think there's a lot of 
versatile shoes out there that 

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can do the easy runs, that can 
do some some workouts for you 

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like you mentioned the Cyclone, 
like that shoe you could have 

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for everything. 
And so if you had to do it all 

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shoes, there's your rotation, 
right? 

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Use them for your long runs, use
them for your easy runs, use 

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them for your tempos. 
There isn't like a magic formula

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that we know right now. 
It's more find a couple shoes 

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that you like, use them for what
you like them for. 

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We have some more questions 
later down that we're going to 

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ask that people are asking what 
are these shoes for? 

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What are they similar to? 
And some people is going to like

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1 shoe for one thing, somebody 
else is going to like it for 

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another. 
Like I think a good example is 

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David, you like you've liked the
Kinvara like 12. 

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I remember that for low. 
Yeah, like that was your like 

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long run monster and that just 
doesn't work for a lot of other 

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people like myself. 
But I think that's a good 

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example where it's like don't be
afraid to use what works for you

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for something that's it's not 
advertised for or something that

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we or other people reviewing 
shoes say that it's necessarily 

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for. 
We try to be helpful in helping 

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people determine what works for 
certain categories. 

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But it's our experience as as 
much of A clinical background as

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we have, it's still our 
experience. 

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But anything else to add on this
question? 

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No, I think by even like what 
you just said, the experience 

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and everybody is different. 
Everybody's biomechanics are 

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different. 
Your experience may be different

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than ours and that's totally 
okay And and knowing that the 

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shoe that works for you is the 
shoe that you're going to go and

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take out on that day probably 
anyways. 

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If you're doing a 20 mile long 
run, you probably don't want to 

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run in a shoe that you don't 
like so. 

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With that little bit, yeah, take
take the shoes that you like and

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continue to use them. 
And I think it is healthy to 

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have a rotation and I think, you
know, 2-3 shoes is probably all 

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you need. 
Yeah, I think another 

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consideration is thinking about,
you know, is there something to 

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be said about using multiple 
different kinds of shoes for 

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your long runs? 
Like is there a rotation of 

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rotating long run shoes and in 
terms of, like research 

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evidence? 
There isn't really anything 

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there to define how you should 
actually implement a rotation. 

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It's right now it's as simple as
using your primary shoe less 

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than 59% of the time. 
That said, I think when you when

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you think about what should I 
use for my long runs and should 

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I rotate shoes, I do think 
that's where you start to think 

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about what am I going to race in
and if your racing shoe is going

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to be the same as your training 
shoe. 

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And I would just use your 
training shoe to get used to 

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that and be comfortable. 
But if you are going to do a 

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race in a different type of 
shoe, I would, I would say get a

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couple of your long runs in in 
that shoe that you plan to use 

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on race day so that you feel 
comfortable in it, you feel 

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mentally confident. 
I think that's we're considering

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shoe rotations for the actual 
long runs might be beneficial, 

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but I don't think that there's 
enough percentage mileage in a 

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week to say you need to rotate 
which shoe you use for a long 

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run. 
All right, we are ready for the 

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next question. 
This is from Jason Vila, Campa 

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and they're asking for a 
comparison question. 

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And I'm going to pitch this one 
to David because I have not ran 

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in one of these shoes, but they 
are asking Mach X or endorphin 

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speed three looking for a speed 
workout shoe, slash race day 

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shoe for 1/2. 
So maybe David give us a little 

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breakdown of the. 
Mock X, since we haven't talked 

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00:10:05,980 --> 00:10:10,820
about that much or at all on 
here yet, and obviously just 

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give us a little background on 
the speed three and then your 

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comparison between the two. 
Totally, yeah. 

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00:10:15,260 --> 00:10:18,740
I mean looking at the Mock XI 
don't have any like specs on me.

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It's a shoe that we just got. 
I mean thankfully I have I think

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27 ish miles on the shoe so far.
I mean I just got it this week, 

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so it's still pretty fresh. 
But this is the Mock X. 

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So Hoka essentially is doing a 
rocker profile. 

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They're putting a plate in the 
shoe. 

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It's very rigid. 
I mean like I can bend it, but 

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like this thing is pretty rigid 
and it just follows that 

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platform. 
It's got a good amount of sole 

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flaring to the forefoot, a heel.
I mean it's essentially a built 

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up mocks with a slightly softer 
topsoil and then a plate and 

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then an actual outsole versus 
the rubberized Dva. 

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So they're trying to make a 
little bit more of a, I guess 

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you could say, responsive mock X
for workouts, those types of 

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things. 
I just pulled up specs so I 

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could run through them really 
quick. 

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So the weight in a men's size 8 
or sorry, a men's size 10 is 9.4

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ounces or 266 grams. 
The women's size 8 is 8 oz or 

216
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227 grams just. 
Hoka has switched their sample 

217
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sizes, so just keep in mind that
most time men's and women's are 

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reported in men's size 9 and 
women's size 7. 

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So you might see a little bit 
higher number here than you'd 

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expect from other models that 
are reported in things like what

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we produce on our website. 
So again, 9.4 ounces, 266 grams 

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for men's size ten, 8.0 oz, 227 
grams for women's size 8. 

223
00:11:43,750 --> 00:11:45,990
The stacks are different between
men's and women's. 

224
00:11:45,990 --> 00:11:48,950
The men's stack is 39 
millimeters in the heel and 34 

225
00:11:48,950 --> 00:11:51,910
in the four foot. 
Women's is a little lower. 37 in

226
00:11:51,910 --> 00:11:55,830
the heel, 32 in the four foot 
and then like you said they have

227
00:11:55,830 --> 00:12:00,110
the the PEBA and the Eva, so 
it's that dual density and 

228
00:12:00,430 --> 00:12:05,190
coming in at 180 dollars. 
Yeah, and I I feel like that's 

229
00:12:05,190 --> 00:12:07,270
pretty comparable with my 
experience. 

230
00:12:07,310 --> 00:12:11,390
It feels pretty high up the 
plates, noticeable The weight 

231
00:12:11,390 --> 00:12:14,390
does feel heavier than the 
previous Mach, like the Mach for

232
00:12:14,390 --> 00:12:16,030
actually. 
Someone literally asked me today

233
00:12:16,030 --> 00:12:17,710
point blank this morning and 
they were like. 

234
00:12:18,310 --> 00:12:20,550
What do you think of the Mach X 
compared to the Mach 4 and or 

235
00:12:20,550 --> 00:12:24,470
Mach 5? 
And I was like it's honestly it 

236
00:12:24,470 --> 00:12:27,870
feels a little bit heavier but I
do kind of at least I had one 

237
00:12:27,870 --> 00:12:30,190
running it up until this point. 
I did 21 in the shoe this 

238
00:12:30,190 --> 00:12:31,710
morning so that's how I got my 
27. 

239
00:12:33,870 --> 00:12:37,030
But I was like I only have one 
running it so far but it feels a

240
00:12:37,030 --> 00:12:38,950
little bit higher up. 
It feels a little bit heavier 

241
00:12:38,950 --> 00:12:41,950
but the plates does the plate 
and the foam do feel a little 

242
00:12:41,950 --> 00:12:45,290
bit more responsive. 
With that said, I think that 

243
00:12:45,290 --> 00:12:48,050
natural transition you get in 
the Mach 5 is taken away a 

244
00:12:48,050 --> 00:12:50,730
little bit by how rocker this 
shoe is and how stiff the plate 

245
00:12:50,730 --> 00:12:53,650
is. 
So it feels like something that 

246
00:12:53,650 --> 00:12:56,170
would be nice for a long 
rhythmic effort. 

247
00:12:56,170 --> 00:12:57,730
And essentially that's what 
today was. 

248
00:12:57,770 --> 00:13:01,370
And today I had a 90 minute 
tempo, but I referenced earlier 

249
00:13:01,370 --> 00:13:06,050
that was this morning and so it 
was 2 hours and 15 ish minutes 

250
00:13:06,050 --> 00:13:09,890
of running with a 90 minute 
tempo And for me marathon pace I

251
00:13:09,970 --> 00:13:11,850
I mean. 
I don't know what it would be 

252
00:13:11,850 --> 00:13:13,810
right now. 
It's probably like 5 thirtyish 

253
00:13:15,370 --> 00:13:20,610
and we did it at 5:45 average. 
And so it's like, I don't know, 

254
00:13:21,050 --> 00:13:23,970
just a little bit off of that 
pace where it's a controlled but

255
00:13:23,970 --> 00:13:25,690
still fast enough where you're 
working. 

256
00:13:26,330 --> 00:13:29,810
And it did great for that. 
Like I actually really like it 

257
00:13:29,810 --> 00:13:33,010
for kind of like a controlled 
rhythmic but still up tempo type

258
00:13:33,010 --> 00:13:36,490
of effort. 
Looking at the endorphin speed 

259
00:13:36,490 --> 00:13:39,130
three, I actually think there is
a difference between the 

260
00:13:39,130 --> 00:13:41,810
experience of these shoes 
because running like fast fast. 

261
00:13:41,810 --> 00:13:45,970
This isn't really this being the
mock X for the listeners I don't

262
00:13:46,450 --> 00:13:48,690
really think I'd want to run 
fast fast in this. 

263
00:13:48,690 --> 00:13:51,610
I don't think I'd want to go on 
the track and or do mile repeats

264
00:13:51,610 --> 00:13:55,690
or any of those types of efforts
in the mock XI think this really

265
00:13:55,690 --> 00:13:58,490
is going to shine more as a long
effort shoe. 

266
00:13:58,870 --> 00:14:01,950
Whether it be a long run or a 
straight up tempo, whether it's 

267
00:14:01,950 --> 00:14:06,270
5 to 10 miles or more or beyond 
whatever, but I don't really see

268
00:14:06,270 --> 00:14:09,630
it being in that wheelhouse of 
shorter reps. 

269
00:14:10,150 --> 00:14:12,750
I think this is really going to 
shine more as kind of like that 

270
00:14:12,750 --> 00:14:15,670
performance Trainer, leaning 
more on the trainer side, but 

271
00:14:15,670 --> 00:14:17,990
still having Performance ask 
components. 

272
00:14:19,070 --> 00:14:21,030
Hopefully that answers the 
question for the mock X. 

273
00:14:21,190 --> 00:14:24,230
Yeah, I got a couple questions 
off of it too, just because like

274
00:14:24,230 --> 00:14:25,870
I said, I have not ran in the 
mock X. 

275
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,280
And I also have some specs, just
to remind people, for the speed 

276
00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:35,320
3, the weight for size 9 is 8.1 
oz or 229 grams, or 7.2 ounces 

277
00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,720
and 204 grams for women's size 
8. 

278
00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:43,320
The stack is 3628, so there's a 
little bit higher drop there, 

279
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:48,280
statically measured. 
What do you my big questions for

280
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,520
you are like how does it feel 
from like a like a spending 

281
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,520
stiffness side of things? 
Like does one feel like it 

282
00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:56,720
operates more on the rocker, 
more flexible? 

283
00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:58,200
Totally. 
Which one gives you more of that

284
00:14:58,200 --> 00:14:59,560
bounce? 
Like how would how would you 

285
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,320
define those differences? 
Yeah, and I was about to get 

286
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,360
into that once I started 
speaking about the endorphin 

287
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,200
speed 3. 
The mock X is stiffer. 

288
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,720
The mock X feels like it relies 
more on that rocker geometry. 

289
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:12,400
It really wants you to get into 
a rhythm. 

290
00:15:13,070 --> 00:15:16,190
And the endorphin speed there 
you're having the nylon plate 

291
00:15:16,190 --> 00:15:19,070
like it's it's just a lot more 
flexible like you can you can 

292
00:15:19,070 --> 00:15:24,190
bend this thing pretty easily. 
It's it's got some rigidity and 

293
00:15:24,190 --> 00:15:27,230
it's got some pop to it, but 
it's more flexible and actually 

294
00:15:27,230 --> 00:15:29,470
for faster efforts I actually 
like that. 

295
00:15:29,950 --> 00:15:33,430
I mean you mentioned the Topo 
cyclone earlier that's a shoe 

296
00:15:33,430 --> 00:15:36,030
that's very flexible up front, 
but it still has a pee backs 

297
00:15:36,030 --> 00:15:37,430
mid. 
So it's one of my favorite shoes

298
00:15:37,430 --> 00:15:40,350
on the planet right now and I 
can rip things on the track, I 

299
00:15:40,350 --> 00:15:41,910
can do whatever I want in that 
shoe. 

300
00:15:42,540 --> 00:15:46,340
And I think of shoes like the 
Adidas to Kumisan 9, you know, 

301
00:15:46,340 --> 00:15:48,820
it's a racing shoe, but it's 
more flexible upfront than all 

302
00:15:48,820 --> 00:15:50,020
of these other shoes that we're 
looking at. 

303
00:15:50,020 --> 00:15:52,860
And a lot of them, when they're 
looking at this metabolic 

304
00:15:52,860 --> 00:15:57,260
efficiency or how they're 
operating there, they wanted to 

305
00:15:57,260 --> 00:16:00,060
settle into this rhythm, have 
this rocker make you work less 

306
00:16:00,060 --> 00:16:03,660
hard, but that's also for longer
periods of time at a submaximal 

307
00:16:03,660 --> 00:16:06,660
effort, right? 
And so when you want to go for a

308
00:16:06,660 --> 00:16:08,380
maximal effort, the goals 
change. 

309
00:16:09,060 --> 00:16:12,140
And so I I think you noticed 
with a lot of these flats, when 

310
00:16:12,140 --> 00:16:14,580
they're designing for shorter 
distances, some of them are 

311
00:16:14,580 --> 00:16:18,260
emitting plates altogether or 
they're putting a more flexible 

312
00:16:18,260 --> 00:16:20,340
plate or they're putting a 
little Shank in there, like the 

313
00:16:20,420 --> 00:16:21,940
street fly had a little Shank, 
right. 

314
00:16:23,180 --> 00:16:25,660
And then Tokumi sent of the 
plastic rods. 

315
00:16:25,700 --> 00:16:27,940
This yellow Rd. 
I don't believe has a plate. 

316
00:16:28,380 --> 00:16:32,900
The sockony, Oh my goodness, why
am I blanking? 

317
00:16:32,900 --> 00:16:35,420
And I love that shoe too. 
Why am I, why am I blanking? 

318
00:16:36,130 --> 00:16:37,170
Sock. 
And I like it too. 

319
00:16:37,530 --> 00:16:39,370
It's right there. 
It's literally right there. 

320
00:16:39,370 --> 00:16:41,890
I'm looking at it. 
Oh, I'm so sorry, Andrea. 

321
00:16:42,410 --> 00:16:44,010
Oh my God. 
The sock. 

322
00:16:45,930 --> 00:16:49,450
Sinister Sock and sinister. 
No plate. 

323
00:16:49,770 --> 00:16:50,890
Nailed it. 
Yes, nailed. 

324
00:16:50,890 --> 00:16:55,750
It so. 
Yeah, so they have a little bit 

325
00:16:55,750 --> 00:16:58,710
more flexible designs because it
lets you lever off of your foot 

326
00:16:58,710 --> 00:17:01,710
the way your foot likes to do 
it, and it doesn't get in your 

327
00:17:01,710 --> 00:17:04,349
way with doing that. 
And could that fatigue your 

328
00:17:04,349 --> 00:17:06,630
calves a little more? 
Sure, but you're not going as 

329
00:17:06,630 --> 00:17:12,359
far and so. 
With that in mind, the endorphin

330
00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,560
Speed Three does come off being 
a little bit faster and it's a 

331
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,520
full pbacks midsole, the plates 
a little bit more flexible. 

332
00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:21,680
It does feel a little bit 
lighter on the foot, the stacks 

333
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,240
a little bit lower, you feel a 
little closer to the ground. 

334
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,560
It's a shoe that like if I had 
to do mile repeats or go on the 

335
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,320
track with, I could do it, you 
know? 

336
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,600
And I think it's one of those 
more versatile options where 

337
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,360
like it can do a little bit of 
everything pretty darn well. 

338
00:17:36,940 --> 00:17:39,260
And people use it for their 
marathon racers all the time, 

339
00:17:39,300 --> 00:17:44,140
you know, and I think if I had 
to choose between a fast workout

340
00:17:44,140 --> 00:17:46,940
session I would go endorphin 
speed three. 

341
00:17:46,940 --> 00:17:49,780
And based on the question I mean
was it looking for a speed 

342
00:17:49,780 --> 00:17:55,700
workout shoe slash race day shoe
for 1/2 And I think the IT just 

343
00:17:55,700 --> 00:17:59,180
based off of no other context. 
I think if I had to choose 

344
00:17:59,180 --> 00:18:01,340
between these two I'm going to 
go endorphin speed three. 

345
00:18:01,980 --> 00:18:04,580
I see the mock X more as a 
training companion. 

346
00:18:05,390 --> 00:18:10,390
And I see it as a really solid 
shoe for long efforts, but I 

347
00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:14,110
don't see myself lacing it up 
for something where I'm truly 

348
00:18:14,110 --> 00:18:18,310
trying to run fast where and I 
probably would choose something 

349
00:18:18,310 --> 00:18:20,550
else over the endorphin speed 
three personally. 

350
00:18:20,550 --> 00:18:23,390
But if I'm deciding between 
those two, I would lean 

351
00:18:23,390 --> 00:18:26,350
Endorphin speed 3. 
And I think another shoe that 

352
00:18:26,350 --> 00:18:29,750
would be worth bringing up that 
I feel is in the same category. 

353
00:18:30,670 --> 00:18:32,910
I mean a I mean the Typo 
Cyclone, but. 

354
00:18:35,410 --> 00:18:39,370
But I would say the Adidas 
Audios 8 and so lightweight 

355
00:18:39,370 --> 00:18:43,530
shoe, you have Light Strike pro 
from basically the front half of

356
00:18:43,530 --> 00:18:46,530
the shoe, It's fully embedded, 
you've got good continental 

357
00:18:46,530 --> 00:18:51,090
traction, it's lightweight, you 
have flexibility, but still some

358
00:18:51,090 --> 00:18:55,170
rigidity by having that like rod
that goes through there, I can 

359
00:18:55,170 --> 00:18:58,210
hammer hill repeats, I can hit 
the track, it can be a short 

360
00:18:58,210 --> 00:19:01,800
distance racer like. 
I think they made a good change 

361
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,760
from what the audience was and 
they kind of went back to its 

362
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,680
roots a little bit because the 
audio used to be the racing shoe

363
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,760
for Adidas, you know, before. 
I mean, it can be sent too. 

364
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:15,080
But like, the audio has always 
been a racing shoe 1st. 

365
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:16,760
And I feel like it started 
getting a little bit more 

366
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:18,280
trainerlike, a little bit more 
trainerlike. 

367
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,440
And they kind of beefed it up 
and then it almost like lost its

368
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,680
racing appeal. 
And I think they wanted to kind 

369
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,840
of revamp that and they they 
stripped it down, they made it 

370
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,010
lighter, they made it faster. 
And I think that really comes 

371
00:19:30,010 --> 00:19:32,450
across in the audio state. 
Not that this is a plug for the 

372
00:19:32,450 --> 00:19:35,810
audio state. 
I like all of these shoes, but I

373
00:19:35,810 --> 00:19:38,210
think that could be another 
option, especially if you like a

374
00:19:38,210 --> 00:19:40,170
little bit more of a firmer feel
underfoot. 

375
00:19:40,170 --> 00:19:42,010
Because that also is what this 
comes down to too. 

376
00:19:42,010 --> 00:19:45,450
If you like a soft bouncy feel 
that those Pebax mitzels that 

377
00:19:45,450 --> 00:19:50,010
you see in the Endorphin Speed 
Three that you see in the Topo 

378
00:19:50,010 --> 00:19:54,370
Cyclone, New Balance Rebel, any 
of those kinds of shoes. 

379
00:19:55,270 --> 00:19:57,230
You're going to have a much 
softer underfoot experience. 

380
00:19:57,230 --> 00:19:59,350
So if you want something that's 
a little bit firmer, the Audio 

381
00:19:59,430 --> 00:20:02,870
eight I think delivers pretty 
well in that category and the 

382
00:20:02,870 --> 00:20:04,910
Mock X is a little bit of a 
hybrid of both, but it just 

383
00:20:04,910 --> 00:20:08,150
doesn't feel as fast to me. 
Yeah. 

384
00:20:08,430 --> 00:20:11,150
So from what it sounded, you 
kind of said what your pick 

385
00:20:11,150 --> 00:20:14,270
would be and then you're, I also
hear you saying for somebody if 

386
00:20:14,270 --> 00:20:17,190
you're if you're looking for 1/2
marathon or workout shoe that is

387
00:20:17,190 --> 00:20:20,990
very like rhythmic and steady 
and stiff. 

388
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,040
Mock X direction, if you're 
looking for more versatile, 

389
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,840
maybe something that you can 
actually like push in a little 

390
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,480
bit more, give it a little bit 
more effort, feel like you're 

391
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,680
doing a little bit more with the
shoe speed three, yeah, kind of 

392
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,880
that differentiation cool. 
And then obviously the other 

393
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,720
options that are a little bit 
lower, a little bit more ground 

394
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,680
feel, but still giving you 
enough protection for that stuff

395
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,800
if you wanted to go that route. 
All right, so question we got 

396
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:51,080
here is common, so not from a 
specific individual, this is one

397
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:52,520
that's come from a multiple 
people. 

398
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:54,880
So we don't have a specific 
handle to give a shout out to 

399
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,080
here. 
But the question is, can you 

400
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:01,560
compare the Kinvarra Pro to the 
endorphin speed and what shoes 

401
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,040
are the Kinvarra Pro similar to?
Sure. 

402
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,560
So I'll be kind of the guy on 
this one because you haven't ran

403
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:13,450
in the Kinvarra Pro yet. 
But I have 70, about 75 miles in

404
00:21:13,450 --> 00:21:17,770
my Kinvara Pro and I would say 
the the Pro and the Speed are 

405
00:21:17,770 --> 00:21:21,690
very, very, very different 
underfoot experiences like the 

406
00:21:22,370 --> 00:21:24,810
you you just talked about what 
the endorphin speed feels like 

407
00:21:24,810 --> 00:21:29,170
and I don't have much to add to 
that very and I only have my I 

408
00:21:29,170 --> 00:21:32,530
only have my run run shield 
version left but. 

409
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:36,120
It's great. 
I will never give that away. 

410
00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:40,160
That is like my go to, like in 
the rain, go fast, whatever. 

411
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,440
Yeah. 
This it's the best, you know the

412
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,080
I the one thing, it's the best 
for winter workouts for me when 

413
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,760
it's really cold out too. 
It's just is amazing. 

414
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,840
The only thing is I would love 
it to just modify the out. 

415
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:54,720
So just yeah. 
I think I said the same thing, 

416
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:56,920
yeah. 
It's not the not the point of 

417
00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,560
the conversation, but you know 
with the with the speed three, 

418
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,040
it does feel so lightweight 
under foot you get. 

419
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:07,720
That full, like a bouncy, softer
feel under foot. 

420
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,760
You get that whole thing here 
and it does have some 

421
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,560
flexibility to it, and you can 
feel all of that in the Speed 3.

422
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:19,060
The Kinvara Pro is. 
Extremely stiff. 

423
00:22:19,300 --> 00:22:21,340
You know this is a very stiff 4 
foot. 

424
00:22:21,340 --> 00:22:24,300
It's got a three quarter length 
plate, but it starts here and 

425
00:22:24,300 --> 00:22:26,220
moves forward. 
So in terms of what you feel in 

426
00:22:26,220 --> 00:22:29,220
terms of flexibility that it's 
going to be stiff through the 

427
00:22:29,220 --> 00:22:31,540
whole 4 foot. 
So you're operating off of that 

428
00:22:31,540 --> 00:22:36,260
rocker platform and it does run 
a bit firmer than the speed 3 

429
00:22:36,300 --> 00:22:39,580
and that's partially because 
most of the undercarriage in the

430
00:22:39,580 --> 00:22:42,020
dual density midsole is power 
run. 

431
00:22:42,020 --> 00:22:45,340
So you get that firmer bottom 
feel with a little bit of 

432
00:22:45,340 --> 00:22:47,460
softness on the top because on 
the top you have. 

433
00:22:47,850 --> 00:22:51,290
You know a thick insole of Power
Run Plus, but then you also have

434
00:22:51,290 --> 00:22:53,810
the PB that's sandwiched between
those two things. 

435
00:22:53,810 --> 00:22:57,570
So ultimately in terms of like 
just what it feels like 

436
00:22:57,570 --> 00:23:01,330
cushioning wise under foot, the 
Pro is or the Kinvara Pro is 

437
00:23:01,330 --> 00:23:05,890
notably firmer in comparison to 
the speed and more stiff in 

438
00:23:05,890 --> 00:23:08,450
comparison to the speed because 
you do have a full carbon plate 

439
00:23:08,690 --> 00:23:11,530
or a three quarter length carbon
plate but full through the four 

440
00:23:11,530 --> 00:23:14,360
foot. 
And so you really operate off of

441
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:19,000
this rocker which also if you 
compare the two is a bit more 

442
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,880
aggressive. 
You can just if you're watching 

443
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,600
you can see that there's it 
seems like there's a bit more of

444
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:28,800
an angle on the on the pro 
Kvarra Pro, I feel like I have 

445
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:30,720
to keep saying Kvarra because 
there's. 

446
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,480
Also, no, I think it's fair. 
Pro So. 

447
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,120
Yeah, I mean with soccer, when 
you say the pro, most people 

448
00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:36,640
probably think endorphin pro, 
so. 

449
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,400
Endorphin Pro. 
I also think this isn't also the

450
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,780
question, but I. 
We had the soccer team on last 

451
00:23:42,780 --> 00:23:44,220
week. 
It was good to hear their 

452
00:23:44,220 --> 00:23:46,300
explanation of why they called 
it Kinvar approach. 

453
00:23:46,380 --> 00:23:47,900
It's so different than the 
Kinvarra. 

454
00:23:48,140 --> 00:23:51,220
I also think it leads to some 
confusion about the utility of 

455
00:23:51,220 --> 00:23:53,940
the shoe potentially, at least 
for what I found that I like it 

456
00:23:53,940 --> 00:23:57,340
for and what they said and even 
what they said that it functions

457
00:23:57,340 --> 00:24:01,220
best at because it has the pro 
title. 

458
00:24:01,220 --> 00:24:04,540
But in terms of like what I 
enjoyed using it for most, it 

459
00:24:04,540 --> 00:24:08,740
was not race efforts. 
Long run shoe like I took this 

460
00:24:08,740 --> 00:24:11,670
on a 16. 
Like 16 1/2 mile run last 

461
00:24:11,670 --> 00:24:15,390
weekend and I was going really 
easy and that's where I just 

462
00:24:15,390 --> 00:24:19,110
fell into rhythm and felt like 
the shoe just had tons of 

463
00:24:19,110 --> 00:24:21,390
cushioning. 
Rolled really nicely with my 

464
00:24:21,390 --> 00:24:23,190
mechanics. 
The rockers positioned really 

465
00:24:23,190 --> 00:24:27,110
well for me, so it just really 
works there and it it does give 

466
00:24:27,110 --> 00:24:32,350
you just enough of a spring but.
When I push into it, it doesn't 

467
00:24:32,350 --> 00:24:35,710
seem to give more back as I give
more effort so it just it 

468
00:24:35,710 --> 00:24:38,750
because it stays rigid stays a 
little bit firmer. 

469
00:24:39,190 --> 00:24:42,070
Not to say I couldn't get 
workouts and I did a pretty 

470
00:24:42,070 --> 00:24:46,470
solid like 10K effort tempo in 
this where I did 3 miles at 

471
00:24:46,470 --> 00:24:49,230
tempo pace and it came along for
the ride just fine. 

472
00:24:49,230 --> 00:24:53,390
It did feel it feels heavier 
like it feels bottom heavy which

473
00:24:53,390 --> 00:24:55,750
is where the weight is 
distributed because of the types

474
00:24:55,750 --> 00:24:59,760
of foams that are in here so. 
In terms of the differences, 

475
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,920
it's really that a little bit 
firmer, way more stiff and just 

476
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:08,680
not as top end speed ready. 
It's really for me, I enjoyed it

477
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,040
most at those easier paces, like
when I'm feeling beat up I'll 

478
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,720
take out the Kinvar Pro and just
go on an easy run or the long 

479
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,400
runs, or if I'm doing a little 
bit of of speed work in there. 

480
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:24,480
But nothing, nothing long and 
hard that I would prefer to use 

481
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:29,020
the speed 3/4. 
So that's kind of how I compare 

482
00:25:29,020 --> 00:25:30,780
those two. 
They're so they're honestly so 

483
00:25:30,780 --> 00:25:34,500
different that I wouldn't really
be like, oh, I'm really between 

484
00:25:34,500 --> 00:25:36,020
these two shoes because they're 
similar. 

485
00:25:36,260 --> 00:25:38,220
They they sit in very different 
categories. 

486
00:25:38,500 --> 00:25:44,340
I'd actually say that the Kinvar
Pro is closer to the shift than 

487
00:25:44,340 --> 00:25:48,260
it the endorphin shift than it 
is to the endorphin speed just 

488
00:25:48,260 --> 00:25:53,540
because the endorphin shift like
has. 

489
00:25:54,180 --> 00:25:56,940
I actually have it here also my 
run shield version, you know 

490
00:25:56,940 --> 00:25:59,980
it's got a lot of foam 
underneath, so it still has a 

491
00:26:00,020 --> 00:26:01,300
lot. 
I think this one, when they got 

492
00:26:01,300 --> 00:26:06,820
to the three, they had a 40 mil,
40 mils stack and because it was

493
00:26:06,820 --> 00:26:09,900
so thick and because it's all 
power run, the four foot was 

494
00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:12,780
also pretty stiff. 
So you were you were still 

495
00:26:12,780 --> 00:26:15,750
operating off of this rocker. 
And in terms of run experience 

496
00:26:15,750 --> 00:26:19,110
and what I gravitated towards 
using it for the shift was my 

497
00:26:19,110 --> 00:26:21,750
long run shoe. 
And funny enough like the 

498
00:26:21,750 --> 00:26:24,590
longest run I've done in both of
those shoes was the same route. 

499
00:26:24,590 --> 00:26:28,110
So it's this like beautiful run 
along this Creek and it's got 

500
00:26:28,150 --> 00:26:30,510
for our area the most elevation 
I can find. 

501
00:26:31,470 --> 00:26:34,070
But so I've taken them both on 
the same. 

502
00:26:34,570 --> 00:26:37,930
Like route and I just remember 
them feeling pretty similar in 

503
00:26:37,930 --> 00:26:41,130
terms of rhythm and using that 4
foot rocker just because they 

504
00:26:41,130 --> 00:26:43,530
have a similar bending stiffness
profile. 

505
00:26:43,530 --> 00:26:45,210
They both sit on the slightly 
firmer end. 

506
00:26:45,370 --> 00:26:49,010
The Kinvarra Pro is definitely 
softer than the shift and it has

507
00:26:49,010 --> 00:26:51,370
a little bit less structure to 
it and it can definitely go 

508
00:26:51,370 --> 00:26:53,490
faster than the shift. 
Good for me and you have a 

509
00:26:53,490 --> 00:26:56,690
little bit more responsiveness, 
but they sit a little bit more 

510
00:26:56,690 --> 00:27:01,930
similar in terms of of ride. 
The other shoes that I think sit

511
00:27:01,930 --> 00:27:07,210
in a similar camp as the Kinvar 
Pro are the and I haven't tested

512
00:27:07,210 --> 00:27:10,850
the newest version, but the 
original SC trainer because they

513
00:27:10,850 --> 00:27:14,210
both are a little bit heavier, 
they're both very maximally 

514
00:27:14,210 --> 00:27:18,410
stacked and they have a very 
stiff rocker with this, you know

515
00:27:18,410 --> 00:27:22,010
4 foot and and they're geared 
for that kind of like long runs,

516
00:27:22,010 --> 00:27:23,330
training runs, that kind of 
thing. 

517
00:27:23,330 --> 00:27:25,210
So I think those two are very 
similar. 

518
00:27:26,270 --> 00:27:29,390
And then in terms of stack 
height, the Super Blast is 

519
00:27:29,390 --> 00:27:32,150
probably the other shoe that's 
worth comparing to the Convara 

520
00:27:32,150 --> 00:27:37,630
Pro though I they feel 
different, like I feel like I 

521
00:27:37,630 --> 00:27:40,590
could go take. 
I've considered using the Super 

522
00:27:40,590 --> 00:27:44,950
Blast for 1/2 marathon race 
because it is much lighter and 

523
00:27:44,950 --> 00:27:47,110
it feels lighter and it feels 
bouncier. 

524
00:27:47,630 --> 00:27:50,030
It doesn't have a plate, but 
it's still very stiff. 

525
00:27:50,030 --> 00:27:55,980
So I think you know the. 
The Super Blast has a little bit

526
00:27:55,980 --> 00:27:59,460
more top end speed capabilities 
but they both can do that kind 

527
00:27:59,460 --> 00:28:03,460
of long run feel cushioned. 
This one feels the Super Blast 

528
00:28:03,460 --> 00:28:07,140
is definitely softer and 
slightly more flexible, but it's

529
00:28:07,140 --> 00:28:12,060
also you know what is it 40-5 
more dollars because I think 

530
00:28:12,060 --> 00:28:14,500
that the Kinvar pros coming in 
at 180. 

531
00:28:15,050 --> 00:28:18,930
And the Super Blast is 225, so 
that's a big difference in 

532
00:28:18,930 --> 00:28:21,410
price. 
And they they do sit in slightly

533
00:28:21,410 --> 00:28:24,370
different categories because I 
do think the Super Blast could 

534
00:28:24,370 --> 00:28:28,410
be used more easily for me for 
like a both training and racing.

535
00:28:28,410 --> 00:28:32,290
Whereas unless I was going to go
do an like an easy effort 

536
00:28:32,290 --> 00:28:34,210
marathon, I wouldn't pick the 
Kinvar Pro. 

537
00:28:34,570 --> 00:28:38,490
So that's a that's a couple of 
the comparisons I would make to 

538
00:28:38,490 --> 00:28:40,210
it. 
Do you have any other 

539
00:28:40,210 --> 00:28:41,850
comparisons? 
I know you haven't ran in it or 

540
00:28:41,850 --> 00:28:44,690
just ones you're curious about 
for me from my perspective? 

541
00:28:45,060 --> 00:28:48,220
Yeah, I think it's it's hard to 
compare when you haven't run it,

542
00:28:48,220 --> 00:28:52,060
but I I mean I mainly think 
based on what it sounds like, it

543
00:28:52,060 --> 00:28:56,260
sounds like a high stack 
rockerd, sharp toe spring like 

544
00:28:56,260 --> 00:29:00,540
just like geometry driven shoe. 
And so I would probably picture 

545
00:29:00,540 --> 00:29:05,780
something kind of like the Hokka
Bondi I'd picture something and 

546
00:29:05,780 --> 00:29:07,020
that probably a little bit 
heavier. 

547
00:29:07,020 --> 00:29:09,260
I I know they Canvara Pros a 
little bit more of a streamline 

548
00:29:09,260 --> 00:29:12,300
design. 
I think the ESC trainer is a 

549
00:29:12,300 --> 00:29:14,500
great parallel just based on 
what I'm hearing. 

550
00:29:15,050 --> 00:29:17,810
But, and I have a pair, this is 
on me. 

551
00:29:17,810 --> 00:29:21,210
I haven't run in it because with
us testing so many shoes, we 

552
00:29:21,210 --> 00:29:24,290
tend to prioritize certain ones 
that we're currently reviewing. 

553
00:29:24,730 --> 00:29:26,930
And it's for only that reason 
that I haven't run in it. 

554
00:29:26,930 --> 00:29:30,570
Otherwise I would actually love 
to get some miles on it, but. 

555
00:29:30,610 --> 00:29:33,690
You did make me think of another
shoe, though, David, just to 

556
00:29:33,690 --> 00:29:36,530
bring up in terms of how 
aggressive the rocker feels. 

557
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,280
So if you've ran in any of the 
glide ride version, like any of 

558
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,640
the versions of the glide ride 
that one feels like really fall 

559
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,520
forward rocker, like you really 
can fall off the ledge on that 

560
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,360
thing. 
It's not quite as aggressive in 

561
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,440
the Kinvarra Pro, little bit 
more measured, little bit, you 

562
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,560
know, so like the rocker of 
again the shift or the Bondi 

563
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,640
would actually fit kind of the 
the rocker profile of this. 

564
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,800
This is probably a little more 
aggressive than the Bondi, but. 

565
00:30:02,750 --> 00:30:04,870
Yeah, I think that was another 
one worth mentioning because 

566
00:30:04,870 --> 00:30:06,990
it's not like the Rockers so 
aggressive that you're falling 

567
00:30:06,990 --> 00:30:09,270
forward like in those Glide 
rides, which I think they've 

568
00:30:09,270 --> 00:30:11,550
discontinued that shoe, which is
interesting. 

569
00:30:12,870 --> 00:30:16,590
But that's kind of where I feel 
like the Canvara Pro sits. 

570
00:30:16,950 --> 00:30:18,950
Yeah, I think that's great. 
All right. 

571
00:30:18,950 --> 00:30:22,750
Well, moving on to our next 
question, unless did you have 

572
00:30:22,750 --> 00:30:24,030
something? 
No, I'm good. 

573
00:30:24,510 --> 00:30:25,990
All right. 
You're making a face there. 

574
00:30:25,990 --> 00:30:28,070
I don't know. 
I never know with you. 

575
00:30:28,110 --> 00:30:32,900
Keep me on my toes. 
So our next question, we're 

576
00:30:32,900 --> 00:30:35,300
moving categories now. 
So we're we're leaving the 

577
00:30:35,300 --> 00:30:37,260
endorphin speeds here. 
We're going to go into something

578
00:30:37,260 --> 00:30:41,260
a little bit more clinical here.
This question comes from heavy 

579
00:30:41,260 --> 00:30:44,460
dad lifts. 
It's a solid handle by the way. 

580
00:30:45,020 --> 00:30:49,340
So I hope you appreciate the 
shout out, but question doing 

581
00:30:49,340 --> 00:30:54,900
this silbernagle, Silbernagle 
protocol for saubernagle. 

582
00:30:55,890 --> 00:30:57,210
Cyber angle. 
Cyber angle. 

583
00:30:57,210 --> 00:30:59,330
There we go. 
I was like Solber angle. 

584
00:30:59,330 --> 00:31:02,770
How do you get all out of that 
cyber angle protocol for 

585
00:31:02,770 --> 00:31:07,050
Achilles tendonitis run before 
or after Achilles rehab? 

586
00:31:07,730 --> 00:31:10,890
Yeah. 
So I'm curious to get to know 

587
00:31:10,890 --> 00:31:13,650
this person a little more, like 
how they stumbled upon this 

588
00:31:13,650 --> 00:31:15,970
protocol, if they're a rehab 
professional or if they were 

589
00:31:16,210 --> 00:31:19,770
recommended it by somebody. 
But it's funny, so. 

590
00:31:20,540 --> 00:31:23,820
Car and Cybernagel was one of my
professors actually in school 

591
00:31:24,100 --> 00:31:29,860
and so I know her decently well 
and she did is a huge researcher

592
00:31:29,860 --> 00:31:31,420
in the world of Achilles 
tendinopathy. 

593
00:31:31,420 --> 00:31:34,860
So she came out with the just 
for background for people on 

594
00:31:34,860 --> 00:31:36,580
what this is she came out with 
a. 

595
00:31:38,260 --> 00:31:43,660
A proposal for how to return to 
running activities with Achilles

596
00:31:43,660 --> 00:31:46,980
tendinopathy, and in conjunction
with that proposal for the 

597
00:31:46,980 --> 00:31:50,780
framework, she also did a 
randomized control trial where 

598
00:31:50,780 --> 00:31:53,780
half the people were given this 
rehab protocol and weren't 

599
00:31:53,780 --> 00:31:56,780
allowed to run until a certain 
point, and the other people were

600
00:31:56,780 --> 00:32:00,340
given the rehab protocol and 
were allowed to run within 

601
00:32:00,340 --> 00:32:03,780
certain parameters and both 
groups did the same so. 

602
00:32:04,580 --> 00:32:08,260
What's exciting about that is if
you follow a certain protocol in

603
00:32:08,260 --> 00:32:11,940
terms of symptom irritability, 
it's called the pain monitoring 

604
00:32:11,940 --> 00:32:15,660
model, you should be able to 
continue running with Achilles 

605
00:32:15,660 --> 00:32:18,820
tendinopathy without risk of 
worsening your condition. 

606
00:32:18,860 --> 00:32:21,420
And you can have the same amount
of improvement. 

607
00:32:21,420 --> 00:32:23,660
It won't slow your rehab 
process. 

608
00:32:24,380 --> 00:32:27,060
So that's kind of the little bit
of background. 

609
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,440
And what this protocol looks 
like is again, you have to use 

610
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,880
the pain monitoring model for 
your symptoms, which basically 

611
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,080
says symptoms can't get more 
than a 5 out of 10 during the 

612
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,440
activity. 
And symptoms can be pain or 

613
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:43,560
stiffness during the activity, 
after the activity, the morning 

614
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,960
after the activity. 
And you can't have worsening 

615
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,280
symptoms week to week. 
So if you type in pain 

616
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,200
monitoring model into Google, 
it's honestly pretty intuitive. 

617
00:32:52,850 --> 00:32:56,050
But it's also nice that it's 
been validated through 

618
00:32:56,050 --> 00:32:58,850
ultrasound imaging research. 
So they basically would look at 

619
00:32:58,850 --> 00:33:02,330
like the collagen alignment of 
the tendon as they went through 

620
00:33:02,330 --> 00:33:05,170
this protocol and you can use 
this pain monitoring model to 

621
00:33:05,170 --> 00:33:07,610
keep your tendon progressing in 
the right direction. 

622
00:33:08,290 --> 00:33:09,770
So you had to follow those 
rules. 

623
00:33:10,090 --> 00:33:13,250
Then you were given a 
combination of daily Achilles 

624
00:33:13,250 --> 00:33:16,210
rehab and then. 
Depending on where you're at in 

625
00:33:16,210 --> 00:33:18,650
the stage of the rehab, you had 
a couple days of heavier 

626
00:33:18,650 --> 00:33:22,250
Achilles loading. 
So like ecentrics or bounding or

627
00:33:22,250 --> 00:33:25,530
just heavy concentric stuff. 
So this person's basically 

628
00:33:25,530 --> 00:33:28,570
asking the question, hey, I have
these heavier loading days or 

629
00:33:28,730 --> 00:33:30,810
I'm doing my daily portion of 
the rehab. 

630
00:33:31,970 --> 00:33:34,970
Should I do that before my run 
or should I do that after my 

631
00:33:34,970 --> 00:33:38,250
run? 
And in terms of the study 

632
00:33:38,250 --> 00:33:40,250
protocol and how this was 
developed? 

633
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:45,400
You could go either way. 
So the the big thing is not 

634
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,760
violating the pain monitoring 
model. 

635
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,920
My preference on this is to 
actually get your rehab in prior

636
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:57,360
to the run, especially your 
daily loading exercises. 

637
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,360
And part of that is because that
daily loading, if you do it even

638
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,000
immediately before your run, it 
just warms up the tendon. 

639
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,120
So then once you're doing the 
higher velocity, you know impact

640
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,920
loading of running. 
The Achilles is a little bit 

641
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,040
more primed to have that elastic
properties that just will keep 

642
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,360
your soreness at Bay. 
So I really like having runners 

643
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,120
do the the easier part of the 
protocol, kind of the daily 

644
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,840
loading prior to going out on 
their runs. 

645
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:26,159
When it comes to the heavy 
stuff, I almost say to do that 

646
00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:29,320
part after and that's because 
it's easier. 

647
00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:33,800
This could go either way, but 
most runners I haven't do it 

648
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,080
after because it can be easier 
to modify that loading protocol.

649
00:34:37,739 --> 00:34:40,980
If your Achilles is a little bit
sore, you can either drop the 

650
00:34:40,980 --> 00:34:43,340
weight or you can drop the reps,
all that kind of stuff. 

651
00:34:43,940 --> 00:34:47,659
At the same time, if you're 
having to modify the the your 

652
00:34:47,659 --> 00:34:51,300
weight and or the amount of reps
and sets you're doing, that 

653
00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:54,100
means you're not getting the 
most important part of your 

654
00:34:54,100 --> 00:34:56,690
rehab process. 
So let's say you go out and you 

655
00:34:56,690 --> 00:34:59,090
do a 30 minute run and you 
notice every time you do 30 

656
00:34:59,090 --> 00:35:02,410
minutes you're fine. 
But then if you do 45 you can't 

657
00:35:02,410 --> 00:35:04,290
get your your loading protocol 
in. 

658
00:35:04,410 --> 00:35:07,370
You're not going to get the 
benefit from the protocol that 

659
00:35:07,370 --> 00:35:09,850
you would if you could have 
gotten all of the sets of reps 

660
00:35:09,850 --> 00:35:12,970
in. 
So Long story short, I like 

661
00:35:12,970 --> 00:35:15,730
doing the loading after so that 
people can still feel good on 

662
00:35:15,730 --> 00:35:17,770
their runs for the heavy loading
parts. 

663
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,960
But if you're having to cut that
part short, you have to 

664
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,520
prioritize the the loading 
protocol in conjunction with 

665
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,160
your running. 
It's kind of like priority 

666
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,640
number one, get your loading in 
priority #2, continue running to

667
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,000
maintain aerobic fitness. 
So. 

668
00:35:34,500 --> 00:35:36,060
I hope that kind of answers the 
question. 

669
00:35:36,220 --> 00:35:40,060
It's a it's definitely one of 
those not one-size-fits-all, but

670
00:35:40,060 --> 00:35:42,580
you want to just make sure that 
you get enough of loading 

671
00:35:42,580 --> 00:35:45,500
through the Achilles so that 
it's promoting the changes on 

672
00:35:45,500 --> 00:35:47,460
the microscopic level that you 
want to get. 

673
00:35:48,580 --> 00:35:51,500
And just keeping in mind, I 
always tell this to runners when

674
00:35:51,500 --> 00:35:56,740
they're starting to work on an 
Achilles issue, the total change

675
00:35:56,740 --> 00:36:00,220
of the of the collagen fibers 
can take up to nine months. 

676
00:36:00,300 --> 00:36:03,620
It's a really long time. 
Nine months, like that's a long,

677
00:36:03,620 --> 00:36:05,830
long time. 
Your pain should go away 

678
00:36:05,830 --> 00:36:09,790
earlier, but you got to continue
your rehab process for that 

679
00:36:09,790 --> 00:36:11,390
whole time. 
Otherwise it has a higher 

680
00:36:11,390 --> 00:36:13,550
likelihood of coming back 
because you haven't actually 

681
00:36:13,550 --> 00:36:14,870
created the changes you want to 
make. 

682
00:36:15,070 --> 00:36:18,350
So David, any thoughts on that? 
Anything you want to add? 

683
00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:22,590
No, I mean that sounds that all 
sounded pretty good, kind of an 

684
00:36:22,590 --> 00:36:25,550
intuitive approach from the pain
standpoint and just building up 

685
00:36:25,550 --> 00:36:28,350
strength around the area, I'm 
all for it. 

686
00:36:29,390 --> 00:36:31,720
Cool. 
All right, so I got a question 

687
00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:33,200
for you. 
Now again, we're still talking 

688
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:37,080
about Achilles, so kind of a fun
little mini mini topic. 

689
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,200
But this is from Robin Runs and 
it's another. 

690
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,120
There's two similar questions, 
the other one is just run in. 

691
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,800
So one of the questions is there
an ideal heel drop for runners 

692
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,440
prone to insertional Achilles 
problems? 

693
00:36:50,940 --> 00:36:53,740
And then the second question is 
thoughts on using a higher drop 

694
00:36:53,740 --> 00:36:56,220
shoe for insertional Achilles 
tendinopathy. 

695
00:36:56,460 --> 00:36:58,740
So maybe give us a little on 
insertional Achilles 

696
00:36:58,940 --> 00:37:01,460
tendinopathy, what that means 
and then kind of take it from 

697
00:37:01,460 --> 00:37:02,180
there? 
Yeah. 

698
00:37:02,180 --> 00:37:05,660
So when we speak in anatomical 
terms, you'll hear the word 

699
00:37:05,660 --> 00:37:08,460
origin and insertion pretty 
often. 

700
00:37:08,460 --> 00:37:11,980
Origin meaning what's you'll 
hear proximal and distal a lot 

701
00:37:11,980 --> 00:37:17,060
too, but origin essentially 
means closer to the center of 

702
00:37:17,060 --> 00:37:20,380
your body. 
So same with proximal like 

703
00:37:20,380 --> 00:37:21,460
closer up to the center of your 
body. 

704
00:37:21,460 --> 00:37:23,980
So the origin is where it 
starts, and then the insertion 

705
00:37:23,980 --> 00:37:26,700
is essentially is where it ends.
And the way that is defined is 

706
00:37:26,700 --> 00:37:29,820
from proximal to distal, meaning
closer to the center of your 

707
00:37:29,820 --> 00:37:31,380
body, further away from your 
body. 

708
00:37:31,940 --> 00:37:35,620
So when we look at insertional 
Achilles tendonopathy, the 

709
00:37:35,620 --> 00:37:38,500
Achilles tendon most people are 
familiar with where that is, but

710
00:37:38,500 --> 00:37:41,900
that's where the calf muscles 
insert and create this thick 

711
00:37:41,900 --> 00:37:44,300
tendon that you can really 
propel off of. 

712
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,280
And that comes down through the 
backside of your heel on that 

713
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,960
calcaneus bone and then kind of 
funnels its way underneath there

714
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,160
and then kind of in a way 
becomes continuous with the 

715
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,400
planner fascia there. 
Not 100% direct there, but like 

716
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:02,000
that's kind of essentially the 
functional translation there. 

717
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:06,040
And so insertional being farther
away from us essentially is down

718
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,000
at that lower aspect of the 
heel. 

719
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,840
Normally you would feel this 
with things that require plant 

720
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,540
reflection, so. 
If you're pushing off of it and 

721
00:38:15,540 --> 00:38:18,860
it hurts, or a lot of times if 
it's really sensitive, any 

722
00:38:18,860 --> 00:38:20,260
position where it gets 
elongated. 

723
00:38:20,260 --> 00:38:23,340
So if you have to, like if your 
foot and ankle goes up in what's

724
00:38:23,340 --> 00:38:26,660
called dorsiflexion, it might 
yank on that area a little bit 

725
00:38:26,660 --> 00:38:28,140
and then it might not feel so 
good. 

726
00:38:28,740 --> 00:38:32,540
So that essentially is what 
insertional Achilles or the area

727
00:38:32,540 --> 00:38:35,220
of the insertion of the Achilles
translates to. 

728
00:38:35,900 --> 00:38:41,020
So as far as ideal heel drop for
runners that are in, you know, 

729
00:38:41,020 --> 00:38:43,530
prone to that. 
That's a hard question to 

730
00:38:43,530 --> 00:38:45,850
answer. 
And that's mainly because 

731
00:38:45,850 --> 00:38:49,250
everyone's so individualized. 
You know, I'd be doing everyone 

732
00:38:49,250 --> 00:38:52,490
who's listening a disservice if 
I said, oh, go run in a 12 

733
00:38:52,490 --> 00:38:55,650
millimeter drop shoe. 
Go run in a, I mean, some people

734
00:38:55,650 --> 00:38:58,530
will swear by running a zero 
drop shoes for the same thing, 

735
00:38:58,930 --> 00:39:02,130
you know, And some people are 
like give it to me in the middle

736
00:39:02,130 --> 00:39:06,330
5 millimeter, like so there's 
like 5 to 8, you know. 

737
00:39:07,510 --> 00:39:09,950
I think so much of it is 
dependent on what you feel 

738
00:39:09,950 --> 00:39:12,470
comfortable with. 
And in the short term, let's say

739
00:39:12,470 --> 00:39:14,750
if it doesn't alter your 
mechanics too much, if a certain

740
00:39:14,750 --> 00:39:18,430
drop feels a little bit nicer to
you that where you can get 

741
00:39:18,430 --> 00:39:21,150
through your runs and it's not 
bugging you, that's OK. 

742
00:39:21,150 --> 00:39:24,470
Like, I'm fine with that and 
I'm, I've done that before, you 

743
00:39:24,470 --> 00:39:26,590
know, where I've gravitated 
towards certain shoes, where I'm

744
00:39:26,590 --> 00:39:28,750
like, oh, my calf isn't going to
hurt if I wear this, it's an 

745
00:39:28,750 --> 00:39:30,830
easy five. 
I'll just, I'll just wear that 

746
00:39:31,310 --> 00:39:34,750
or easy 10, you know, and just 
not take any chances and run in 

747
00:39:34,750 --> 00:39:36,150
something that I know I can 
trust. 

748
00:39:37,230 --> 00:39:40,790
With that said, because it is so
individualized, I think there's 

749
00:39:40,790 --> 00:39:43,990
a couple components that you can
look for that might modify the 

750
00:39:43,990 --> 00:39:50,110
load on that Achilles. 
I would when you look at it from

751
00:39:50,110 --> 00:39:55,350
a passive standpoint, if you are
in a higher drop shoe that's 

752
00:39:55,350 --> 00:39:57,590
going to lift that heel up a 
little bit higher, they're 

753
00:39:57,590 --> 00:40:00,310
almost kind of like you're 
wearing some high heels and 

754
00:40:00,310 --> 00:40:02,670
that's going to shorten the 
angle on. 

755
00:40:04,610 --> 00:40:06,370
It's going to shorten a sense of
the tension on the Achilles 

756
00:40:06,370 --> 00:40:07,890
tendon. 
It's going to increase your 

757
00:40:07,890 --> 00:40:11,010
plantar flexion angle, but it's 
going to decrease the amount of 

758
00:40:11,010 --> 00:40:13,770
stretch that's on the Achilles 
tendon. 

759
00:40:14,290 --> 00:40:18,330
And what that can do is that can
actually take some pressure off 

760
00:40:18,330 --> 00:40:20,530
of it. 
Standing, walking, living life, 

761
00:40:20,530 --> 00:40:24,490
you know, I've done that before 
where I've worn like a like a 

762
00:40:24,490 --> 00:40:28,450
Brooks Adrenaline or a Mizuno 
wave rider or some of these 

763
00:40:28,450 --> 00:40:32,130
higher drop shoes out there just
walking around for the day. 

764
00:40:32,130 --> 00:40:34,330
And that is anecdotally has 
helped me before. 

765
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,160
From as far as choosing it for a
run, I've done the same thing 

766
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,240
and it's done OK for me, but 
that's not the case for 

767
00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:42,480
everybody. 
Some people slam down on the 

768
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,800
foot and then they end up 
planting off of that forefoot 

769
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:50,440
even harder. 
And so, and for further context 

770
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,720
too, we do have a full episode 
on all of this. 

771
00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:54,640
I don't actually know the 
episode number. 

772
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:56,880
I think Nate's currently working
on getting that. 

773
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:58,960
If I'm reading his facial on it,
yeah. 

774
00:41:00,850 --> 00:41:04,370
If I, if I'm reading him 
correctly, his body language, 

775
00:41:04,930 --> 00:41:07,330
but everyone's so 
individualized. 

776
00:41:07,330 --> 00:41:10,730
Some people respond better to 
having a toe spring up front in 

777
00:41:10,730 --> 00:41:14,330
the shoe, having a more rocker 
profile to the shoe where their 

778
00:41:14,330 --> 00:41:16,730
calves don't have to work quite 
as hard, but the drop might 

779
00:41:16,730 --> 00:41:19,130
actually be a little bit lower 
and that stack heights a little 

780
00:41:19,130 --> 00:41:21,890
bit higher. 
And so those are two wildly 

781
00:41:21,890 --> 00:41:25,210
different designs that can both 
take pressure off of the calf 

782
00:41:25,210 --> 00:41:29,810
area and in the Achilles 
insertional area as well. 

783
00:41:30,430 --> 00:41:33,670
Now what That said, some people 
also don't do well with one or 

784
00:41:33,670 --> 00:41:36,230
the other, like because of that 
sensitivity, some of those 

785
00:41:36,230 --> 00:41:38,670
dorsiflexion moments, some might
make you go through a larger 

786
00:41:38,670 --> 00:41:41,910
range of motion. 
So I I really hate to be the guy

787
00:41:41,910 --> 00:41:45,270
that says it depends, but I 
would try and put a couple shoes

788
00:41:45,270 --> 00:41:50,430
on and if your body feels okay 
with it, honestly I'd probably 

789
00:41:50,430 --> 00:41:53,030
just go with the one that feels 
okay for that day. 

790
00:41:53,510 --> 00:41:55,950
And truth be told, I mean, 
depending on how. 

791
00:41:56,690 --> 00:41:59,130
I mean, I know it's prone to 
insertional Achilles problems, 

792
00:41:59,130 --> 00:42:02,570
so this could be implying that 
you don't have any problems 

793
00:42:02,570 --> 00:42:06,970
currently and you're trying to 
avoid having problems in the 

794
00:42:06,970 --> 00:42:10,130
future because you've had on and
off problems to that region. 

795
00:42:10,410 --> 00:42:15,090
I think the the greater answer 
here is to do some strengthening

796
00:42:15,130 --> 00:42:16,810
work around all the muscles 
find. 

797
00:42:17,210 --> 00:42:20,970
Find someone that can help you 
out with avoiding injuries to 

798
00:42:20,970 --> 00:42:23,250
that region in the 1st place. 
Make sure you're eating well. 

799
00:42:23,250 --> 00:42:26,440
Make sure you're sleeping well. 
And don't get injured, you know,

800
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,000
And I know it's easier said than
done. 

801
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:33,040
But in the situation that if you
do have it, I think it would 

802
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:37,320
probably be wise to stick with 
something that feels OK for your

803
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,640
own body and your own mechanics.
And I don't think I can sit here

804
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,560
behind a microphone and tell you
go put this shoe on and that 

805
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,920
it'll go away. 
Yep, I I agree with you there. 

806
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,400
I first I failed to find the 
episodes. 

807
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,800
Yeah, I can't tell the number 
right now but. 

808
00:42:54,990 --> 00:43:00,270
Oh no, it might be 70 B. 
JVJ said 70 Casper Homie Casper 

809
00:43:00,270 --> 00:43:01,030
is. 
Casper. 

810
00:43:02,150 --> 00:43:03,830
Yeah. 
So it might be episode 70, We 

811
00:43:03,830 --> 00:43:05,070
hope. 
But. 

812
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,800
You know I I think you you hit 
it David. 

813
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,400
You know one of the 
modifications in the rehab 

814
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,480
process for this is taking you 
out of positions where there is 

815
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:17,480
compression of the of the tendon
itself against the the bone. 

816
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,920
And So what Dave was talking 
about with changes in the drop 

817
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,200
and changes in in the amount of 
strain put through the calf 

818
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,300
meaning the amount of. 
You know, force, it has to 

819
00:43:26,300 --> 00:43:27,860
produce. 
If you can decrease some of 

820
00:43:27,860 --> 00:43:29,700
those things for a season, that 
can help. 

821
00:43:30,420 --> 00:43:34,180
But there's also in that episode
that we recorded, Matt was 

822
00:43:34,180 --> 00:43:38,220
talking about how some people 
have compression issues when it 

823
00:43:38,220 --> 00:43:41,140
comes to their Achilles. 
So if you have a high drop, that

824
00:43:41,140 --> 00:43:43,780
can sometimes exacerbate it, 
which is where some of that 

825
00:43:43,780 --> 00:43:46,660
nuance, like you said, David, 
comes in where yeah, maybe go 

826
00:43:46,660 --> 00:43:49,740
try something with a higher drop
or a nice rocker that matches 

827
00:43:49,740 --> 00:43:51,740
you well. 
But if you're noticing that 

828
00:43:51,740 --> 00:43:54,140
right away, it's causing that, 
that irritability. 

829
00:43:54,610 --> 00:43:56,130
And what maybe not the one 
you're going for? 

830
00:43:56,130 --> 00:43:58,890
And one thing we didn't talk 
about at all too is just the 

831
00:43:58,890 --> 00:44:03,330
construction of the heel collar 
and heel counters and things 

832
00:44:03,330 --> 00:44:06,250
like that that might irritate it
from an external standpoint. 

833
00:44:06,250 --> 00:44:09,130
I know the client is very 
sensitive to those things. 

834
00:44:09,130 --> 00:44:11,290
Thankfully, I'm not that 
sensitive to those types of 

835
00:44:11,290 --> 00:44:15,010
things, but there are people 
that are. 

836
00:44:15,570 --> 00:44:17,930
And who knows? 
Maybe it has nothing to do with 

837
00:44:17,930 --> 00:44:21,010
drop at all and it's just 
chronic irritation and rubbing 

838
00:44:21,010 --> 00:44:25,090
to the area. 
So I I wish I could tell Robin 

839
00:44:25,090 --> 00:44:28,490
runs and just running, you know,
a more straightforward answer, 

840
00:44:28,490 --> 00:44:32,690
but it it does depend and we're 
so individualized to that. 

841
00:44:32,690 --> 00:44:35,250
Like I said, I'd be doing all 
the disservice if I set a 

842
00:44:35,250 --> 00:44:36,530
specific shoe for y'all. 
Yep. 

843
00:44:37,370 --> 00:44:40,730
And just to confirm, it is 
episode 70, it's called Can I 

844
00:44:40,730 --> 00:44:42,450
run through an Achilles tendon 
injury? 

845
00:44:42,450 --> 00:44:44,450
And we actually talk further 
through the pain monitoring 

846
00:44:44,450 --> 00:44:47,050
model in that episode as well. 
So if you want some more 

847
00:44:47,050 --> 00:44:48,370
details, you can jump back to 
that. 

848
00:44:48,610 --> 00:44:51,210
And that was a while ago, so who
knows that a lot of people 

849
00:44:51,210 --> 00:44:54,200
listening probably. 
Hadn't heard that episode, so 

850
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:55,600
could be worth going, checking 
out. 

851
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,000
Okay. 
Next question for you. 

852
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,160
We're exiting the Achilles 
region. 

853
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,080
We're just going into general 
questions that we got, and this 

854
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:09,320
is from Kurav Introverta. 
I think I said that right. 

855
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:14,040
Hopefully their question is how 
much proteins per kilogram is 

856
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,040
useful for a runner. 
Yeah. 

857
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,080
And I think that's a great 
question, right, because 

858
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,480
everyone always talks about 
recovery. 

859
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:23,480
Nutrition. 
Make sure you're doing all those

860
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,240
little things right, but no one 
really ever defines what those 

861
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:30,400
little things are. 
The number that I've always 

862
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:34,920
heard has been about 1.5 to 2 
grams per kilogram body weight. 

863
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,680
Before recording this episode, 
we did look at this question. 

864
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,240
I looked it up on the 
International Society of Sports 

865
00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:44,760
Nutrition. 
Thankfully, I was consistent 

866
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:49,480
with what they had. 
I was like I was within a .01. 

867
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:54,560
I have no point 1.1. 
They had 1.4 to 2 grams per 

868
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:59,560
kilogram body weight, and what a
kilogram is, is in the metric 

869
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,280
system or not, whatever the 
European, I don't know, 

870
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:10,240
conversion man, math is hard, 
but it's 2.2 grams. 

871
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:14,160
My goodness, 2.2 pounds to one 
kilogram. 

872
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,240
That's how that translates. 
So if you're lifting kettle 

873
00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:18,120
bells, a lot of times those are 
in kilos. 

874
00:46:19,210 --> 00:46:22,090
Sometimes you'll, I mean, rarely
you'll see plates in kilos, at 

875
00:46:22,090 --> 00:46:26,210
least here in the US, but people
refer to things in kilos 

876
00:46:26,210 --> 00:46:30,650
sometimes, so I'm just going to 
do a quick little calculation 

877
00:46:30,650 --> 00:46:33,010
here. 
Let's just say you have a £150 

878
00:46:33,010 --> 00:46:37,090
individual and you divide that 
by 2.2. 

879
00:46:37,090 --> 00:46:43,730
They're roughly 68.18 kilograms.
And so if we're on the lowest 

880
00:46:43,730 --> 00:46:47,850
end of this, let's say it's 1.4 
grams. 

881
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:52,160
Per kilogram, you're looking at 
95 grams of protein per day. 

882
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:56,840
And so if we're looking at a 
basic three meal system, 

883
00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:00,480
breakfast, lunch, dinner, not 
counting any snacking or any 

884
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,640
other supplementation or 
anything like that, I mean 

885
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:08,400
you're looking at a solid 31 to 
32 grams of protein every meal. 

886
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:14,120
And so it's a lot, you know, and
I think people it, it can be a 

887
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,400
little humbling sometimes, but 
oh crap, I got to eat more. 

888
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,800
You know, and I mean, we'll put 
a couple of specifics here. 

889
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:21,760
We did kind of list out a couple
of things. 

890
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:26,000
But when you look at like an 
average serving of protein, 

891
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,280
people usually imply about 
twentyish. 

892
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,680
When you look at a Cliff Bar, 
just a basic supplement with, I 

893
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,320
want to say most Cliff Bars are 
right around 40 grams of carbs 

894
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:39,160
and 10 grams of protein. 
So if you're looking at it from 

895
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,750
a protein standpoint. 10 grams 
of protein, you need 3 Cliff 

896
00:47:42,750 --> 00:47:46,710
bars at least, you know, just to
cover the basic like subpar 

897
00:47:46,710 --> 00:47:49,470
level, you know. 
And then in one of the meals, in

898
00:47:49,470 --> 00:47:52,390
one of the meals, right, Which 
can be kind of hefty, right? 

899
00:47:52,470 --> 00:47:57,470
And if you're looking at most 
protein bars, the basic Costco 

900
00:47:57,470 --> 00:48:00,190
ones are right around 20. 
Most companies are right around 

901
00:48:00,190 --> 00:48:01,750
20. 
Every once in a while you'll see

902
00:48:01,750 --> 00:48:04,230
some that are upwards of 30, I 
think pure protein. 

903
00:48:04,230 --> 00:48:05,990
I think their drinks go upwards 
of 30. 

904
00:48:07,380 --> 00:48:09,500
Or again, I think it's like 18 
or 20. 

905
00:48:09,500 --> 00:48:14,500
I think Muscle Milk is about 20,
but most companies kind of 

906
00:48:14,500 --> 00:48:17,020
center it around 20. 
And so if you're looking at 

907
00:48:17,020 --> 00:48:20,340
that, I mean, that's 1 1/2 of 
those things in a sitting. 

908
00:48:20,900 --> 00:48:22,420
And those are pretty dense, 
right? 

909
00:48:22,420 --> 00:48:24,180
But they're easy calories to put
down. 

910
00:48:24,180 --> 00:48:26,340
And if you're in a time crunch, 
it's something you could at 

911
00:48:26,340 --> 00:48:29,900
least get in. 
But they also tend to buy US1 

912
00:48:30,060 --> 00:48:32,690
one thing and that's protein. 
So you still have to get carbs, 

913
00:48:32,690 --> 00:48:35,130
you still have to get fats, but 
in terms of looking at the 

914
00:48:35,130 --> 00:48:38,730
strictly from a protein 
standpoint, we're looking at a 

915
00:48:38,730 --> 00:48:42,610
little over 30 grams per meal if
you're 150 pound individual. 

916
00:48:42,610 --> 00:48:44,370
If you're lighter then you can 
get away with less. 

917
00:48:44,370 --> 00:48:45,810
If you're heavier than you need 
to eat more. 

918
00:48:46,890 --> 00:48:51,890
But looking at it from that 
standpoint, usually if you 

919
00:48:51,890 --> 00:48:54,930
centerpiece of protein like 
let's say a chicken breast, a 

920
00:48:54,930 --> 00:48:56,830
steak. 
Something like that. 

921
00:48:56,830 --> 00:49:00,230
A single oz, around six oz. 
You should cover it. 

922
00:49:00,230 --> 00:49:03,670
I mean, it'll be about 25 to 30 
ish, you know, depending on what

923
00:49:03,670 --> 00:49:06,830
you're eating. 
For that small, that small 

924
00:49:06,830 --> 00:49:09,310
serving size, salmon is about 
the same there. 

925
00:49:10,830 --> 00:49:12,790
Sometimes it can even be a 
little bit higher. 

926
00:49:12,790 --> 00:49:15,150
It's always kind of tricky with 
some of those data values 

927
00:49:15,150 --> 00:49:18,790
because what is uncooked versus 
cooked does change, right, 

928
00:49:18,790 --> 00:49:20,830
because you cook certain things 
out gets a little bit smaller. 

929
00:49:21,590 --> 00:49:23,850
Hard to say, but. 
Give or take. 

930
00:49:23,890 --> 00:49:26,810
I mean, if you center at least 
one solid protein in each of 

931
00:49:26,810 --> 00:49:30,410
those meals, you should be okay.
But that also implies that you 

932
00:49:30,410 --> 00:49:33,610
have three solid meals, and a 
lot of Americans aren't doing 

933
00:49:33,610 --> 00:49:35,330
that either, and for a good 
reason. 

934
00:49:35,330 --> 00:49:37,170
We have a lot of time 
constraints and things like 

935
00:49:37,170 --> 00:49:39,450
that, and supplementation can 
certainly help. 

936
00:49:39,890 --> 00:49:42,330
One thing that I would like to 
bring up too, because in the 

937
00:49:42,330 --> 00:49:44,730
American breakfast system, we 
eat a lot of eggs. 

938
00:49:45,010 --> 00:49:49,650
I eat a lot of eggs, and an 
average egg is about 6 grams of 

939
00:49:49,650 --> 00:49:51,840
protein. 
You have 4 eggs. 

940
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,320
That's 24. 
So you people, most people are 

941
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,000
like, oh, I'll have two. 
And it's like, well, that's 12, 

942
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:59,800
you know, it's a Cliff bar. 
You know, it's like it's not 

943
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:03,360
much. 
So I think what I want to drive 

944
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:07,720
home with this question is just 
don't be afraid to eat, don't be

945
00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:10,640
afraid to snack. 
You're if you're running a lot 

946
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,400
and you're putting that work and
your body is working hard. 

947
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:17,560
I mean, the average person, I, I
want to say the numbers right 

948
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:20,640
around .8 grams per kilogram and
that's on the higher end. 

949
00:50:22,070 --> 00:50:25,190
For someone who's not 
exercising, and for most sports 

950
00:50:25,310 --> 00:50:27,550
at the highest, they're usually 
about 1.5. 

951
00:50:28,070 --> 00:50:30,510
So why is it that running is so 
much higher? 

952
00:50:31,110 --> 00:50:36,030
It and it's it's comparable with
bodybuilders or someone who's 

953
00:50:36,030 --> 00:50:37,950
doing heavy strength training 
all the time. 

954
00:50:38,230 --> 00:50:41,270
It's the muscle breakdown. 
You're intentionally going out 

955
00:50:41,270 --> 00:50:42,950
there and you're breaking your 
muscles down. 

956
00:50:42,950 --> 00:50:45,470
Very. 
I mean, we take running for 

957
00:50:45,470 --> 00:50:48,710
granted, but I mean that's a 
single leg jump over and over 

958
00:50:48,710 --> 00:50:52,830
and over again for miles. 
And our bodies do take 

959
00:50:52,830 --> 00:50:56,150
punishment from that and there's
a lot of breakdown that comes 

960
00:50:56,150 --> 00:50:58,790
along with that and that's why 
the protein needs are as high as

961
00:50:58,790 --> 00:51:01,630
they are. 
So I I mean I think that's a 

962
00:51:01,630 --> 00:51:04,710
great question and I think I'm 
glad that we could answer that 

963
00:51:04,710 --> 00:51:08,990
here on this podcast. 
But yeah, with that said, I 

964
00:51:08,990 --> 00:51:11,950
think the take home message 
isn't so, so much like hyper 

965
00:51:11,950 --> 00:51:13,430
Fixate on how much you're 
getting. 

966
00:51:13,430 --> 00:51:16,070
I don't think that's the answer 
either because if you're 

967
00:51:16,070 --> 00:51:19,550
constantly getting stressed out 
about how much you're getting in

968
00:51:19,550 --> 00:51:21,890
and like. 
That's not good food eating 

969
00:51:21,890 --> 00:51:25,490
behavior in itself and that can 
lend itself to much other like 

970
00:51:25,930 --> 00:51:29,770
much more serious things. 
You know and I think the the big

971
00:51:29,770 --> 00:51:33,610
thing that I want to drive home 
is don't be afraid to eat and 

972
00:51:34,090 --> 00:51:36,770
you can still go on with your 
life and but just do not have 

973
00:51:36,770 --> 00:51:40,610
any fear of that plate like it's
it's energy. 

974
00:51:40,610 --> 00:51:43,330
At the end of the day calories 
are what we use to turn over and

975
00:51:43,330 --> 00:51:46,610
say TP and energy to keep us 
moving as well as keep our brain

976
00:51:46,610 --> 00:51:50,230
functioning. 
On top of just actual movement 

977
00:51:50,230 --> 00:51:52,750
and performance. 
So don't be afraid of food. 

978
00:51:53,310 --> 00:51:55,270
And I think you mentioned it at 
the beginning. 

979
00:51:55,390 --> 00:51:57,550
We're not, you know, registered 
dietitians. 

980
00:51:57,790 --> 00:51:59,870
Actually, I didn't. 
Yeah, I meant to, but yeah. 

981
00:52:00,230 --> 00:52:02,230
Oh, you didn't okay? 
Well, yeah. 

982
00:52:02,310 --> 00:52:06,710
Not a registered dietitian, not 
a nutrition is like, but I I do 

983
00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:10,470
have a background in that realm,
but I mean I don't, I'm not 

984
00:52:10,470 --> 00:52:13,150
certified or licensed in that 
world. 

985
00:52:13,850 --> 00:52:15,730
Yeah. 
In the point of bringing up all 

986
00:52:15,730 --> 00:52:18,610
the examples that David brought 
up, we kind of ran through some 

987
00:52:18,610 --> 00:52:20,010
in the beginning just to have 
some. 

988
00:52:20,330 --> 00:52:23,170
The point was to give it a 
tangible picture of how much it 

989
00:52:23,170 --> 00:52:25,650
is, not to say this is what you 
should eat. 

990
00:52:25,650 --> 00:52:27,530
You know, it was not a 
prescription in that way. 

991
00:52:27,730 --> 00:52:30,450
I think there's a couple people 
that I like to follow who are 

992
00:52:30,450 --> 00:52:33,850
registered editions who kind of 
use their social platforms to 

993
00:52:33,850 --> 00:52:38,240
share information. 
One of them is Courtney Burling.

994
00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:42,600
So her Instagram handle is Eat 
Well, dot Run Better, and I 

995
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:47,320
think she does a great job, 
especially speaking to women who

996
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:52,040
have complicated relationships 
with food and what it looks like

997
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:55,960
to be a runner and try to engage
in fueling your body in a way 

998
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:57,360
that gives you the feel you need
to run. 

999
00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:58,800
I think she does a fantastic 
job. 

1000
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:02,800
And then Megan Featherston, she 
does stuff with Believe in the 

1001
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,760
Run as well. 
She has a really nice platform 

1002
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:07,400
as well. 
Well, with really good, reliable

1003
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:09,920
information. 
So those are two people that I 

1004
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,480
would recommend checking out. 
They talk about a lot of this 

1005
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,280
kind of stuff from. 
They're both registered 

1006
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:19,400
dietitians who work with 
athletes, so I recommend 

1007
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,400
checking them out for sure. 
Yeah. 

1008
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,840
And I think totally, like, one 
quick little caveat on that too 

1009
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:29,000
is like, I think this goes along
with don't be afraid of food. 

1010
00:53:30,740 --> 00:53:33,340
But when you look at a lot of 
carb loading protocols, they 

1011
00:53:33,340 --> 00:53:36,180
allow liquid carbs, it's fine. 
Your body processes it. 

1012
00:53:36,180 --> 00:53:39,140
You're putting a lot of hard 
work in like juices or like even

1013
00:53:39,140 --> 00:53:41,180
things that have corn syrup and 
things like that. 

1014
00:53:41,180 --> 00:53:44,700
Like I'm not a big component of 
eating it all the time, but 

1015
00:53:44,700 --> 00:53:46,380
something is certainly better 
than nothing. 

1016
00:53:46,780 --> 00:53:50,220
And so making sure that you just
get your macro nutrients in, in 

1017
00:53:50,220 --> 00:53:53,780
a way that's manageable for you,
I think is is absolutely huge in

1018
00:53:53,780 --> 00:53:57,860
the recovery process and and 
just keeping you operative like.

1019
00:53:58,590 --> 00:54:01,030
Just keeping you functioning, 
you know, like that's so 

1020
00:54:01,030 --> 00:54:03,510
important. 
But anyways we will move on. 

1021
00:54:06,310 --> 00:54:09,430
So next question, this one is 
for Nathan. 

1022
00:54:09,910 --> 00:54:14,590
This is coming from with Venon, 
almost sounds like an EV 

1023
00:54:14,590 --> 00:54:22,070
evolution from Pokémon, but the 
question is, is it hard to 

1024
00:54:22,070 --> 00:54:27,470
manage the balance between work 
Dor, running, family? 

1025
00:54:28,180 --> 00:54:30,340
That's a great question. 
It's something I actually think 

1026
00:54:30,340 --> 00:54:33,220
about a ton. 
But before I do go into it, you 

1027
00:54:33,220 --> 00:54:37,580
brought up Pokémon and my nephew
was in town and he's in a huge 

1028
00:54:37,580 --> 00:54:39,580
Pokémon stage. 
He's like 90. 

1029
00:54:39,580 --> 00:54:46,140
He's 10 now, but he kind of 
introduced Pokémon to my kids 

1030
00:54:46,140 --> 00:54:50,060
and so my oldest is 6 and or 
he's going to be 6 next month 

1031
00:54:50,420 --> 00:54:53,100
and my youngest will be 4 next 
month. 

1032
00:54:53,700 --> 00:54:56,260
And now they're like, they just 
can't stop talking about 

1033
00:54:56,260 --> 00:54:57,340
Pokémon. 
Which is fun. 

1034
00:54:57,420 --> 00:55:00,900
For me, because Pokémon was my 
jam is growing up and it came 

1035
00:55:00,900 --> 00:55:02,420
out at like the perfect time for
me. 

1036
00:55:02,420 --> 00:55:03,500
But. 
Totally. 

1037
00:55:03,540 --> 00:55:07,020
And like to just, I mean not to 
make this podcast about Pokémon.

1038
00:55:07,380 --> 00:55:10,060
I grew up playing a lot of 
Pokémon as well. 

1039
00:55:10,100 --> 00:55:13,740
And then I remember when the 
Nintendo DS came out, I never 

1040
00:55:13,740 --> 00:55:15,860
got it. 
So pretty much everything up to 

1041
00:55:15,860 --> 00:55:19,180
the Gameboy Advance. 
I put hours and hours and hours 

1042
00:55:19,180 --> 00:55:20,860
into those games. 
You know, multiple level 

1043
00:55:20,860 --> 00:55:26,680
hundreds, all that. 
And I took a long hiatus and I 

1044
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:30,440
recently got a Nintendo Switch 
earlier this year and kind of 

1045
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:32,640
rekindled it and started playing
some games. 

1046
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:37,880
Fun fact on the new as a Pokémon
Scarlet and Violet, you can 

1047
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:39,160
actually play online with 
people. 

1048
00:55:39,720 --> 00:55:41,480
And like, get a little party 
together, Yeah. 

1049
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,880
So if you want to go get a 
switch, this is my pitch to get 

1050
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,160
Nathan a switch. 
So for those in the comments. 

1051
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:48,200
We could play games together. 
We could play games together, 

1052
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:50,120
yeah. 
And like, if you wanted to have 

1053
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,320
your boys on there and we're 
just talking Pokémon, we could 

1054
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:53,360
do that. 
That could be a thing. 

1055
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:57,520
So. 
That segues really well into how

1056
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:01,720
I manage the balance of all 
these things, you know? 

1057
00:56:01,720 --> 00:56:03,840
There's so much that goes into 
this question, though. 

1058
00:56:05,030 --> 00:56:08,190
You know, I I think that there's
a couple unique things about Dor

1059
00:56:08,350 --> 00:56:13,470
and I think that the the type of
people that are on this team, so

1060
00:56:13,510 --> 00:56:20,790
Andrea Bach, BJ, Matt, David, 
like we are all on the same 

1061
00:56:20,790 --> 00:56:23,870
team. 
We know that this is genuinely 

1062
00:56:24,150 --> 00:56:28,310
like for our passion to share 
this stuff with people. 

1063
00:56:28,310 --> 00:56:30,910
It's for fun like we try to have
fun doing this and. 

1064
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:37,360
We know that this is not like a 
huge part of like what keeps 

1065
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:40,640
our, you know, families running.
You know, like this is this is 

1066
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:42,800
supposed to be something that's 
life giving to us. 

1067
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:47,280
And we give each other a lot of 
like grace to go do what we need

1068
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:50,360
to do and actually like push 
each other to like take them off

1069
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:54,400
of Dor. 
So I think that's how I feel. 

1070
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,520
I don't know if you feel the 
same, David. 

1071
00:56:57,270 --> 00:57:00,230
No, I I agree completely on the 
Dor side of things. 

1072
00:57:00,230 --> 00:57:02,790
I mean, we're probably telling 
each other to work less, more 

1073
00:57:02,790 --> 00:57:06,310
often than we're telling each 
other to work more because I 

1074
00:57:06,350 --> 00:57:10,430
think we all have personalities 
and I mean, we've worked hard to

1075
00:57:10,430 --> 00:57:13,030
get where we are. 
You know, I'm not going to, you 

1076
00:57:13,030 --> 00:57:15,270
know, beat around that. 
We have worked hard and I think 

1077
00:57:15,270 --> 00:57:18,310
we're all hardworking 
individuals with that is also 

1078
00:57:18,310 --> 00:57:20,150
the curse of constantly working 
hard. 

1079
00:57:20,630 --> 00:57:23,830
And I think it's very important 
to have another person in the 

1080
00:57:23,830 --> 00:57:25,310
room to look at you and say 
chill. 

1081
00:57:25,750 --> 00:57:27,430
Like, you're fine, Go eat a 
Taco. 

1082
00:57:27,510 --> 00:57:33,350
Like, shut up and then like, 
take a quick break and come back

1083
00:57:33,350 --> 00:57:36,190
when you're ready. 
And I think we do a good job of 

1084
00:57:36,190 --> 00:57:39,430
giving things up and and being 
open to each other because it 

1085
00:57:39,430 --> 00:57:43,070
does take. 
I think we all have open 

1086
00:57:43,070 --> 00:57:45,110
personalities where we want 
constructive feedback, and 

1087
00:57:45,110 --> 00:57:48,430
sometimes the most constructive 
feedback that you can get is to 

1088
00:57:48,430 --> 00:57:51,720
just take a break. 
You know, and not necessarily 

1089
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:53,840
because there's a performance 
decline, but because some of 

1090
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:56,320
those other things that were 
mentioned in that question might

1091
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:59,680
be going not off the handle, but
like where the balance starts 

1092
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:01,640
becoming hard, yeah. 
Yeah. 

1093
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:05,680
And I think for me, the way I 
approach this, I mean, like just

1094
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:08,640
to let you into my my world, 
which I've shared a bit. 

1095
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:11,200
So, you know, I'm married to 
Gianna. 

1096
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,440
We have two boys who are six and
four. 

1097
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:16,940
Who? 
One just finished 4K but are you

1098
00:58:16,940 --> 00:58:18,980
know Henry will be in 
kindergarten and raised not in 

1099
00:58:18,980 --> 00:58:20,700
school yet. 
So that's just a certain 

1100
00:58:20,700 --> 00:58:23,940
specific phase of parenting. 
And then right now I'm in this 

1101
00:58:23,940 --> 00:58:27,060
weird work phase where I'm a 
parttime clinician. 

1102
00:58:27,300 --> 00:58:31,420
I'm an adjunct faculty at our 
university here in town and I'm 

1103
00:58:31,420 --> 00:58:34,340
in grad school so I'm getting my
degree in educational 

1104
00:58:34,340 --> 00:58:37,380
sustainability. 
So and then I'm doing doctors of

1105
00:58:37,380 --> 00:58:40,220
running as well. 
So I have kind of a lot of 

1106
00:58:40,300 --> 00:58:42,900
different pieces that are trying
to. 

1107
00:58:43,700 --> 00:58:47,660
Find their way into my schedule.
And I think from a big picture 

1108
00:58:47,660 --> 00:58:51,460
standpoint, what I have to do is
like on the front end, I've 

1109
00:58:51,460 --> 00:58:54,620
worked really hard to set like 
what my priority list is. 

1110
00:58:54,900 --> 00:58:59,380
And so like in terms of those 
time demand things, I know like 

1111
00:58:59,380 --> 00:59:02,860
which ones sit on top for me, 
like for me from the list I just

1112
00:59:02,860 --> 00:59:05,900
gave and there's other things 
that that are that that I give 

1113
00:59:05,900 --> 00:59:07,500
time to. 
I just haven't listed them all, 

1114
00:59:07,500 --> 00:59:12,250
but like time with Jana. 
And then followed by time with 

1115
00:59:12,250 --> 00:59:16,050
our boys and investing in those 
hit the top of my priorities by 

1116
00:59:16,050 --> 00:59:20,290
a million. 
So if I want to know if I'm 

1117
00:59:20,290 --> 00:59:24,010
actually prioritizing those 
things, I look at my calendar 

1118
00:59:24,010 --> 00:59:29,170
and ask am I actually dedicating
more time to those things that 

1119
00:59:29,450 --> 00:59:31,530
that are flexible times? 
Like yeah, you might have a nine

1120
00:59:31,530 --> 00:59:33,570
to five job or something, but 
like for me it's. 

1121
00:59:33,950 --> 00:59:36,870
Am I dedicating like the free 
time that I have actually to 

1122
00:59:36,870 --> 00:59:40,270
those things? 
Or am I choosing to insert more 

1123
00:59:40,270 --> 00:59:42,990
doctors of running work, or 
insert more teaching prep for 

1124
00:59:42,990 --> 00:59:46,190
the university or insert more 
work on my dissertation into 

1125
00:59:46,190 --> 00:59:49,550
those times that could be used 
for what I claim, quote UN 

1126
00:59:49,550 --> 00:59:53,590
quote, to be my top priority? 
That's kind of how I work 

1127
00:59:53,590 --> 00:59:57,910
through managing that, and I do.
I work really hard to make sure 

1128
00:59:57,910 --> 01:00:00,430
that that actually gets my time 
and attention. 

1129
01:00:01,150 --> 01:00:04,510
And then everything else has to 
be good enough and at the same 

1130
01:00:04,510 --> 01:00:09,190
time accepting any consequences 
that might come from taking less

1131
01:00:09,190 --> 01:00:11,870
time towards those things. 
So when it comes to doctors of 

1132
01:00:11,870 --> 01:00:14,070
running, it's one of those 
things for me that's on the 

1133
01:00:14,070 --> 01:00:18,390
table as a huge negotiable where
if our life changed to a place 

1134
01:00:18,390 --> 01:00:22,030
where I couldn't give time to 
it, I would just freely have to 

1135
01:00:22,030 --> 01:00:24,070
let it go. 
And I would be very comfortable 

1136
01:00:24,070 --> 01:00:26,270
doing that. 
And Jana and I check in with 

1137
01:00:26,270 --> 01:00:30,830
each other often monthly to ask.
Are we still in a good spot? 

1138
01:00:30,830 --> 01:00:33,190
With how much time I'm giving to
doctors, running, recording this

1139
01:00:33,190 --> 01:00:35,710
podcast, writing things on the 
side, whatever. 

1140
01:00:35,950 --> 01:00:38,870
And if it's too much this is, 
this would have to go off to the

1141
01:00:38,870 --> 01:00:41,190
side. 
The same would be true about my 

1142
01:00:41,350 --> 01:00:45,430
job at the university, or my job
with at the clinic or with the 

1143
01:00:45,430 --> 01:00:48,470
running lab and my school. 
Like, do I need to put school on

1144
01:00:48,470 --> 01:00:51,790
a pause so we do an inventory of
the time that I've put into 

1145
01:00:51,790 --> 01:00:53,790
those things? 
And then how is our family what 

1146
01:00:53,790 --> 01:00:55,510
I claim to be my top priority 
doing? 

1147
01:00:55,910 --> 01:01:00,630
So I would say we're in a really
for me like is it hard right 

1148
01:01:00,630 --> 01:01:03,030
now? 
No, I think we're in a really 

1149
01:01:03,030 --> 01:01:05,910
good rhythm. 
Is it hard to to do that on the 

1150
01:01:05,910 --> 01:01:08,670
front end And like really 
because sometimes it takes big 

1151
01:01:08,710 --> 01:01:10,990
overhaul to like switch it to 
what you really want your 

1152
01:01:10,990 --> 01:01:13,110
priorities to be, that's really 
hard. 

1153
01:01:13,390 --> 01:01:16,630
But because of the nature of a 
lot of the places that I'm 

1154
01:01:16,630 --> 01:01:19,350
working right now, including 
doctor running, it gives me that

1155
01:01:19,350 --> 01:01:22,670
freedom to prioritize the things
that are actually priority so. 

1156
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:25,520
That was probably more of an 
answer than I needed to give, 

1157
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:27,800
but that's kind of how I 
approach it. 

1158
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:31,040
So let's move forward. 
I got, I got another question 

1159
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:33,800
for you. 
We've got, we have a lot left. 

1160
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:36,680
We probably we're already over 
an hour, so maybe we'll just cut

1161
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:38,600
a little bit short. 
But I do want to ask you this 

1162
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:43,200
one David. 
So Faye F Cooper is asking foot 

1163
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:45,800
shaped versus non foot shaped 
shoes. 

1164
01:01:46,140 --> 01:01:48,820
Any thoughts or recommendations?
Yeah, I think that's a great 

1165
01:01:48,820 --> 01:01:51,700
question, especially because 
I've noticed in the last year 

1166
01:01:52,660 --> 01:01:55,340
there's been a big push towards 
foot shaped shoes. 

1167
01:01:57,460 --> 01:01:59,180
I've been seeing it pushed a lot
too. 

1168
01:01:59,180 --> 01:02:01,860
Also in the lifting community as
well, where people are like you 

1169
01:02:01,860 --> 01:02:04,380
need your toes to expand, you 
need to have some space up 

1170
01:02:04,380 --> 01:02:06,980
front. 
Are they better? 

1171
01:02:06,980 --> 01:02:09,660
I mean, it depends on the 
individual. 

1172
01:02:09,660 --> 01:02:13,420
Again, I hate to say that, but. 
I will say it's nice to have 

1173
01:02:13,420 --> 01:02:16,980
room for Toastplay and have some
volume to accommodate for, you 

1174
01:02:16,980 --> 01:02:19,940
know, natural swelling that you 
will have when you're running. 

1175
01:02:20,620 --> 01:02:23,580
Will that deter me from putting 
on a Vapor Fly when I race? 

1176
01:02:23,580 --> 01:02:27,420
Probably not like another. 
I mean, not that I am going to 

1177
01:02:27,420 --> 01:02:30,060
race all my races in Vapor Fly. 
I probably won't actually. 

1178
01:02:30,900 --> 01:02:32,380
But I don't. 
I don't. 

1179
01:02:32,500 --> 01:02:36,220
I've run two races in a Vapor 
Fly in the last five years, four

1180
01:02:36,220 --> 01:02:39,380
years. 
Not a very common shoe to see on

1181
01:02:39,380 --> 01:02:42,320
my feet. 
But I just said that does a is 

1182
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:45,480
an example of a shoe, right? 
That normally doesn't fit that 

1183
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:47,520
profile. 
Actually the newest one is a 

1184
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:50,560
little bit better. 
But when I think of a foot 

1185
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:54,480
shaped shoe, I tend to think 
Topo first because they tend to,

1186
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:56,360
they have an anatomical design 
where they're a little bit more 

1187
01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:58,640
slim through the heel and mid 
foot, but they widen out for the

1188
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:01,480
four foot and toe box. 
That's what they try to strive 

1189
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:03,720
for. 
Ultra also tries to do something

1190
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:05,840
similar, but it tends to be a 
little bit wider through the 

1191
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:08,440
rest of it. 
But with that said, they do take

1192
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:12,240
into accommodation like into 
account that they you need some 

1193
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:19,240
room upfront. 
I will say that they the Topo 

1194
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:21,720
shoes at least in the last year 
and I think some of this has 

1195
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:25,800
been more designed than 
anything, not so much just the 

1196
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:28,640
toe box, but I think the whole 
package of the shoe they've been

1197
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:31,240
putting out some bangers this 
year, like there's been a lot of

1198
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:33,680
shoes that I've really been 
liking from that company. 

1199
01:03:34,870 --> 01:03:37,830
Is that because of the foot 
shape versus other things? 

1200
01:03:37,830 --> 01:03:40,230
You know, it's hard to say 
because there's plenty of shoes 

1201
01:03:40,230 --> 01:03:43,630
that don't follow a foot shape 
that I've really enjoyed as 

1202
01:03:43,630 --> 01:03:46,510
well, like the Saucony ride. 
I wouldn't classify that as a 

1203
01:03:46,510 --> 01:03:48,030
foot shape. 
That's a pretty traditional 

1204
01:03:48,030 --> 01:03:52,670
running shoe. 
Last and not that it's narrow 

1205
01:03:52,670 --> 01:03:54,870
through the forefoot or 
anything, it's I'd say it's 

1206
01:03:54,870 --> 01:03:57,510
about average, It's just not 
wide, right? 

1207
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:03,120
And I don't, I don't know if I 
have any specific, like dogmatic

1208
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:05,600
thoughts on this matter where 
I'm like, oh, you have to go 

1209
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:08,240
foot shape, you have to go 
narrow. 

1210
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:12,000
If you are having issues with 
that and it's compressing your 

1211
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:14,800
toes and maybe you're getting 
bunions or you're getting like 

1212
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:18,640
this clear pressure or like a 
numbness tingling like your 

1213
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:21,040
nerves are getting compressed, 
then I think you probably do 

1214
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:22,480
need a little bit more space in 
that area. 

1215
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:25,680
And that would be a wise 
decision to increase some of the

1216
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:28,940
space in that area. 
But as far as if you're not 

1217
01:04:28,940 --> 01:04:32,660
having problems with it or any 
specific shoe part of that 

1218
01:04:32,660 --> 01:04:35,740
design, I think it's probably 
fine to just wear what you want 

1219
01:04:35,740 --> 01:04:38,020
to wear. 
Hopefully that answers the 

1220
01:04:38,020 --> 01:04:40,300
question. 
Yeah, I think it does. 

1221
01:04:40,380 --> 01:04:44,100
And a couple of the things that 
that resonate in my head about 

1222
01:04:44,100 --> 01:04:47,500
this topic, one of them is I 
think there's a difference 

1223
01:04:47,500 --> 01:04:50,500
between what shoes you run in 
and what shoes you wear all day 

1224
01:04:50,500 --> 01:04:52,460
long too. 
Very true if you're wearing a 

1225
01:04:52,460 --> 01:04:54,140
tight dress. 
Cue all the time, yeah. 

1226
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:57,840
Yeah, some someone might only 
run, you know, an hour a week 

1227
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:01,120
And So what you run for an hour,
is that really going to be the 

1228
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:05,040
biggest impact on what you could
just using the term like foot 

1229
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:08,320
health that it could be in terms
of things like Bunny information

1230
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:11,320
or whatever. 
And I would claim no, I think. 

1231
01:05:12,490 --> 01:05:15,250
So I do think that it does 
matter to some degree. 

1232
01:05:15,250 --> 01:05:17,690
Like if you're having something 
that is pushing your foot one 

1233
01:05:17,690 --> 01:05:20,610
way or another that can change 
length, tension, relationship of

1234
01:05:20,610 --> 01:05:22,450
muscles, tendons, all that kind 
of stuff. 

1235
01:05:22,450 --> 01:05:25,170
And like you said, it can lead 
to compression of nerves or 

1236
01:05:25,170 --> 01:05:27,210
bunion formation and that's 
important. 

1237
01:05:27,370 --> 01:05:30,370
If you are running a decent 
amount, having a shoe that has 

1238
01:05:30,370 --> 01:05:33,570
enough room for splay is good, 
but it doesn't mean that you 

1239
01:05:33,570 --> 01:05:36,690
necessarily need an anatomic toe
box and. 

1240
01:05:37,290 --> 01:05:40,170
It it really depends on what 
your foot shape is and what the 

1241
01:05:40,170 --> 01:05:43,250
shoe is designed like. 
One of my biggest pet peeves is 

1242
01:05:44,090 --> 01:05:49,610
when I see someone who is very 
firmly in like the anatomic 

1243
01:05:49,970 --> 01:05:54,370
towbox industry where they're 
creating a product or a shoe 

1244
01:05:54,370 --> 01:05:59,650
that like promotes that as the 
way what they often do is they 

1245
01:05:59,650 --> 01:06:01,770
show like a diagram. 
Where they? 

1246
01:06:01,770 --> 01:06:04,250
Would. 
Pretend to like, cut out a shoe 

1247
01:06:04,250 --> 01:06:07,010
with the anatomic toe box and it
looks how nice the the foot 

1248
01:06:07,010 --> 01:06:08,730
looks in there. 
And then they'll cut and they'll

1249
01:06:08,730 --> 01:06:11,130
say it's a traditional shoe. 
And then it looks like the toes 

1250
01:06:11,130 --> 01:06:14,530
are all curled over each other. 
And what they're trying to 

1251
01:06:14,530 --> 01:06:17,370
communicate through that is any 
shoe that's not anatomically 

1252
01:06:17,370 --> 01:06:20,170
shaped is going to compress your
foot like this, which is bad for

1253
01:06:20,170 --> 01:06:21,810
you. 
If the if your foot was 

1254
01:06:21,810 --> 01:06:24,290
compressed like it is in those 
images, yeah, probably not the 

1255
01:06:24,290 --> 01:06:27,450
best shoe for you, but that's 
not how every traditionally 

1256
01:06:27,450 --> 01:06:29,060
shaped. 
And I don't know if 

1257
01:06:29,060 --> 01:06:31,500
traditionally shaped, non 
anatomically shaped shoe is 

1258
01:06:31,500 --> 01:06:32,700
going to actually do to your 
foot. 

1259
01:06:33,340 --> 01:06:36,060
If we could cut off the uppers 
on a lot of these shoes, for me 

1260
01:06:36,220 --> 01:06:37,860
I know that it wouldn't be 
pushing my toes. 

1261
01:06:37,860 --> 01:06:41,860
I have there's literal like 
space on the side just like half

1262
01:06:41,860 --> 01:06:43,980
thumb length at the end. 
I have space on the end. 

1263
01:06:43,980 --> 01:06:46,700
So I know those are not adding 
that compression that would be 

1264
01:06:46,700 --> 01:06:50,220
unhealthy depending on how much 
taper there is around the toe 

1265
01:06:50,220 --> 01:06:53,140
box and stuff. 
So I think that's from the from 

1266
01:06:53,140 --> 01:06:55,200
that side of the dogmatics. 
End of it. 

1267
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:59,000
I get frustrated when they paint
all shoes in a certain category 

1268
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:03,360
for all foot types and all 
people, But I do think that 

1269
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:06,080
there's a ton of value in having
enough room for your feet 

1270
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:09,080
display, especially if it's 
something that you're in a lot. 

1271
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:12,000
You really want to make sure 
that you, you know, don't overdo

1272
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:15,910
it in that. 
That kind of a situation all day

1273
01:07:15,910 --> 01:07:18,270
or running all the time and 
something that's compressing and

1274
01:07:18,270 --> 01:07:19,710
potentially causing those 
issues. 

1275
01:07:19,950 --> 01:07:22,110
But I think the amount of time 
here in the shoe matters and 

1276
01:07:22,110 --> 01:07:25,390
does the shoe actually do what 
some of these images claim to 

1277
01:07:25,390 --> 01:07:26,870
do? 
That's that. 

1278
01:07:26,870 --> 01:07:29,950
I love the feeling of topo fit. 
You know, the anatomic toe box 

1279
01:07:29,950 --> 01:07:31,950
feels great. 
So I'm in on. 

1280
01:07:31,950 --> 01:07:35,390
It they just make nice uppers, 
too, Like, does that aside, 

1281
01:07:35,390 --> 01:07:37,270
like, the material's nice. 
Lockdown's good? 

1282
01:07:37,430 --> 01:07:39,570
Yep. 
Yeah, I'm also, I'm excited to 

1283
01:07:39,570 --> 01:07:41,290
hear what people have to say 
about this because I do think 

1284
01:07:41,290 --> 01:07:43,930
that this is one of those 
trigger topics for people that 

1285
01:07:44,170 --> 01:07:46,450
people get really fired up about
it. 

1286
01:07:46,970 --> 01:07:48,730
Okay. 
I have one more question for you

1287
01:07:48,730 --> 01:07:52,210
David, and then we'll well 
actually I have one and a half 

1288
01:07:52,290 --> 01:07:54,610
one. 
And. 1/2 okay 1 1/2 But the 

1289
01:07:54,610 --> 01:07:58,570
first one I'm going to ask you 
is from Tim Coleman 0810. 

1290
01:07:58,730 --> 01:08:02,010
What is your bucket list 
destination race? 

1291
01:08:02,490 --> 01:08:06,930
That's a good question, Tim. 
I don't know. 

1292
01:08:06,970 --> 01:08:09,890
I I wish I could give you like 
this is where I want to go, This

1293
01:08:09,890 --> 01:08:13,370
is what I want to race. 
I mean, ideally, ideally Orlando

1294
01:08:13,370 --> 01:08:16,850
in February, but like that's for
very different reasons. 

1295
01:08:18,569 --> 01:08:20,370
What is that reason for people 
who might not? 

1296
01:08:20,370 --> 01:08:21,890
Know oh, that would be the 
Olympic trials. 

1297
01:08:21,890 --> 01:08:25,050
So that would be, I mean that 
would be a bucket list right 

1298
01:08:25,050 --> 01:08:27,649
there, you know to go run there 
for the performance standpoint. 

1299
01:08:28,130 --> 01:08:33,010
But I think I'm at a place in my
running journey at the moment. 

1300
01:08:33,010 --> 01:08:39,100
I'm I'm trying to get better. 
I'm trying to, I mean really 

1301
01:08:39,100 --> 01:08:42,420
just get better, focus on the 
process and get a little bit 

1302
01:08:42,420 --> 01:08:44,580
faster, get a little bit better 
at the sport. 

1303
01:08:45,060 --> 01:08:47,979
And so a lot of the courses I'm 
running, a lot of the races I'm 

1304
01:08:47,979 --> 01:08:50,979
running and actually the the 
race selection this last year 

1305
01:08:50,979 --> 01:08:53,060
could have been better. 
And I actually had a talk with 

1306
01:08:53,060 --> 01:08:55,939
my coach about that. 
And going to races that are 

1307
01:08:55,939 --> 01:09:00,140
going to set us up better for 
some success is kind of the 

1308
01:09:00,140 --> 01:09:02,660
theme going into this next year,
I mean. 

1309
01:09:03,410 --> 01:09:05,130
We'll see. 
I mean the rear's not over yet 

1310
01:09:05,130 --> 01:09:07,330
and we're going to still try and
make a push to make that that 

1311
01:09:07,330 --> 01:09:09,370
trials mark. 
I think that is still doable. 

1312
01:09:10,930 --> 01:09:14,569
But going forward, we're going 
to probably look at race 

1313
01:09:14,569 --> 01:09:16,450
selection probably for the next 
year or two. 

1314
01:09:16,450 --> 01:09:19,370
So I don't really have any like 
bucket list destination race. 

1315
01:09:19,370 --> 01:09:23,450
You know, it's like I love the 
idea of a destination race, you 

1316
01:09:23,450 --> 01:09:26,569
know, where it's like oh, I get 
to go here and have my vacation 

1317
01:09:26,569 --> 01:09:30,170
and and we can build it around 
this and I get to go see all 

1318
01:09:30,170 --> 01:09:34,490
these cool things. 
But the truth of me racing is 

1319
01:09:34,490 --> 01:09:38,970
more for the racing I I I mean 
so it's I mean I wish I could 

1320
01:09:38,970 --> 01:09:41,689
tell you it's it's very it's 
very boring. 

1321
01:09:41,729 --> 01:09:44,770
It's honestly it's it's when and
it's and it's it's hilarious 

1322
01:09:44,770 --> 01:09:47,090
because when you look at my 
running and my training it's 

1323
01:09:47,090 --> 01:09:49,529
very boring. 
You know it's it's a lot of 

1324
01:09:49,529 --> 01:09:52,330
miles. 
I I do pretty much all I I very 

1325
01:09:52,330 --> 01:09:55,650
very rarely double. 
So all of my mileage is off of 

1326
01:09:55,650 --> 01:09:59,130
singles. 
I run probably 70 to 80 miles a 

1327
01:09:59,130 --> 01:10:01,410
week. 
You know, so it's averaging at 

1328
01:10:01,410 --> 01:10:03,850
least 10 a day. 
I'll have a workout day on the 

1329
01:10:03,850 --> 01:10:06,330
track, I'll have a long run and 
I'll have a road workout. 

1330
01:10:06,330 --> 01:10:12,730
Usually it's like it's a pretty 
bread and butter you know plan 

1331
01:10:12,730 --> 01:10:16,130
there. 
So but with that said though, I 

1332
01:10:16,130 --> 01:10:20,170
mean I haven't done, I mean I've
hardly had any time on the East 

1333
01:10:20,170 --> 01:10:23,170
Coast or the Midwest and I do 
think Chicago would be a fun 

1334
01:10:23,170 --> 01:10:25,970
race and that would be a good 
field and of course to go run 

1335
01:10:25,970 --> 01:10:28,680
fast at. 
I think it would be fun to go 

1336
01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:31,400
run at New York, you know, I 
know it's not the fastest course

1337
01:10:31,400 --> 01:10:35,040
on the planet, but it's a major.
I mean, I I don't get too hung 

1338
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:38,240
up on the major thing, but it is
a big race and it's going 

1339
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:40,080
through a major city. 
And when else are you going to 

1340
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:42,840
get to run the streets of New 
York and and see the city from 

1341
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:45,400
that angle. 
So I do think that's a really 

1342
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:47,880
cool experience that that you 
could have. 

1343
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:54,160
But yeah, with that said, I mean
I I I don't really get jazzed 

1344
01:10:54,160 --> 01:10:56,280
about the location of the race. 
I wish I did. 

1345
01:10:56,780 --> 01:11:00,460
I I don't, you know it's like 
there's like the Catalina Trail 

1346
01:11:00,460 --> 01:11:02,340
mile area. 
We got all the Malibu races 

1347
01:11:02,340 --> 01:11:06,460
right here. 
We've got like just like so many

1348
01:11:06,460 --> 01:11:08,820
like you are cool. 
Places you are the destination. 

1349
01:11:08,860 --> 01:11:12,900
There's so many cool places you 
could go and like, but even like

1350
01:11:12,900 --> 01:11:15,420
not outside of here. 
There's a lot of like wonderful,

1351
01:11:15,420 --> 01:11:18,620
beautiful places in our country 
and and abroad, you know, that 

1352
01:11:18,620 --> 01:11:21,940
also have great races and cool 
areas but. 

1353
01:11:22,750 --> 01:11:25,630
I I just, I'm not as driven by 
the destination. 

1354
01:11:25,630 --> 01:11:29,030
My destination, I guess in a 
boring way, is hopefully running

1355
01:11:29,030 --> 01:11:31,190
fast. 
You know, the destination of 

1356
01:11:31,430 --> 01:11:34,110
getting there on that journey. 
Yeah. 

1357
01:11:35,330 --> 01:11:37,690
I think for me, I am. 
I've got a couple that I've 

1358
01:11:37,690 --> 01:11:40,210
thought about and I have. 
I have some that are silly, like

1359
01:11:40,250 --> 01:11:41,890
destination. 
I would love to just run the 

1360
01:11:41,890 --> 01:11:44,410
Madison Marathon because that's 
a city that I love. 

1361
01:11:44,410 --> 01:11:46,370
Went there for school. 
But when I think about more fun 

1362
01:11:46,370 --> 01:11:49,330
ones, my feasible one that I 
think I could actually do 

1363
01:11:49,330 --> 01:11:53,490
someday is Big Sur. 
Oh yeah, just looks, just looks 

1364
01:11:53,490 --> 01:11:56,210
gorgeous and I know it's got a 
lot, especially for me. 

1365
01:11:56,370 --> 01:11:59,050
Tons of elevation. 
Yeah, that's what I was to area.

1366
01:11:59,170 --> 01:12:01,810
Yeah, but looks, but looks 
really beautiful and fun. 

1367
01:12:01,810 --> 01:12:03,970
So that's one for me. 
The other one. 

1368
01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:07,840
This fits in kind of the made. 
It's one of the majors. 

1369
01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:11,920
But doing Tokyo would be a 
destination one for me. 

1370
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:15,440
I I don't ever, I've never like 
actually imagined myself going 

1371
01:12:15,440 --> 01:12:19,560
to Japan. 
But if I were to like do a 

1372
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:22,160
destination race, I think I 
would choose there just to kind 

1373
01:12:22,160 --> 01:12:24,160
of get the same experience of 
running New York. 

1374
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:26,680
But in a country I've never 
experienced before. 

1375
01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:29,240
And getting like the on ground 
experience in Tokyo I think 

1376
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:31,240
would be really cool. 
Okay. 

1377
01:12:31,440 --> 01:12:32,880
I've got my last question for 
you. 

1378
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:36,480
You ready? 
This one is from our very own 

1379
01:12:36,480 --> 01:12:42,200
Bach, our media manager, and his
question is you gotta kiss, 

1380
01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:45,080
marry and kill one of the 
following three. 

1381
01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:49,360
So it's kiss, marry or kill for 
you, David Carnitas, steak and 

1382
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:52,080
chorizo tacos. 
Bach, I hate you. 

1383
01:12:54,480 --> 01:13:03,300
Why, dude, come on, man. 
Oh man, he's going to be hearing

1384
01:13:03,300 --> 01:13:04,780
it from me after this. 
Okay. 

1385
01:13:06,940 --> 01:13:11,180
Let's see here, Okay when I 
think I'm just going to kill 

1386
01:13:11,180 --> 01:13:15,180
Teresa Tacos right off the bat. 
Nothing against chorizo. 

1387
01:13:15,180 --> 01:13:19,140
Like, I think it's good. 
I like them with eggs, actually.

1388
01:13:19,140 --> 01:13:21,660
I probably put those in burritos
more than I do in tacos. 

1389
01:13:24,350 --> 01:13:28,590
I as being the centerpiece of 
the Taco, you know, the protein,

1390
01:13:28,590 --> 01:13:32,230
what you're wanting to put down.
I I would just take carne does 

1391
01:13:32,230 --> 01:13:33,710
her steak over that, I don't 
know. 

1392
01:13:33,990 --> 01:13:35,790
So I'll put chorizo on the side 
there. 

1393
01:13:36,230 --> 01:13:40,670
But I think when it comes down 
to the the kiss and the Mary 

1394
01:13:40,670 --> 01:13:44,670
here, I think when you're 
talking Mary, I think you're 

1395
01:13:44,670 --> 01:13:47,910
talking consistency. 
I think you're talking something

1396
01:13:47,910 --> 01:13:50,300
predictable. 
You love it all the time. 

1397
01:13:50,300 --> 01:13:53,460
Maybe maybe you don't some days,
but maybe like like there will 

1398
01:13:53,460 --> 01:13:56,100
be ups and downs committed to 
it, but you're committed to it 

1399
01:13:56,100 --> 01:13:59,260
and it's something that's 
consistent that you can rely on.

1400
01:13:59,540 --> 01:14:01,340
And I think for me, that's going
to be steak. 

1401
01:14:01,700 --> 01:14:06,500
I feel like steak, a bad steak 
Taco is still going to be pretty

1402
01:14:06,500 --> 01:14:11,820
good and a good steak Taco could
make your evening, you know, And

1403
01:14:11,860 --> 01:14:16,940
I think, I I think for that 
reason I'm going to, I'm going 

1404
01:14:16,940 --> 01:14:19,980
to marry the steak Taco. 
And that's that's hard for me to

1405
01:14:19,980 --> 01:14:23,140
say because I love carnitas. 
Like I just love it. 

1406
01:14:23,820 --> 01:14:29,420
But finding a good place that 
makes carnitas can be hard and 

1407
01:14:29,420 --> 01:14:31,860
sometimes the bad ones aren't 
that good. 

1408
01:14:32,420 --> 01:14:37,220
And so I think the the carnitas 
is like the the that's the kiss,

1409
01:14:37,220 --> 01:14:40,260
that's the IT could go really 
well, it could not go really 

1410
01:14:40,260 --> 01:14:41,060
well. 
But you don't, you're not 

1411
01:14:41,060 --> 01:14:42,500
committed to it. 
You know what I mean? 

1412
01:14:43,440 --> 01:14:46,080
And some, some days are going to
be better than others. 

1413
01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:48,400
Whatever. 
But I'll I'll probably marry the

1414
01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:50,520
steak tacos. 
Wonderful. 

1415
01:14:51,200 --> 01:14:55,160
Well, thank you everyone for 
joining us for this mailbag 

1416
01:14:55,160 --> 01:14:56,600
episode. 
We love digging into your 

1417
01:14:56,600 --> 01:14:59,320
questions. 
So in light of that, if you've 

1418
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:02,440
been following along with us, if
you'd be willing to take a 

1419
01:15:02,440 --> 01:15:05,600
couple seconds to drop a review 
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1420
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:08,200
you're on YouTube, both of those
things really help us out. 

1421
01:15:09,320 --> 01:15:13,360
And then if you want to submit 
some ideas for podcast episode. 

1422
01:15:13,440 --> 01:15:16,360
So ideas or questions that you 
have for us, we are always 

1423
01:15:16,360 --> 01:15:20,360
trying to keep our mailbag 
growing and so you can always 

1424
01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:23,360
e-mail us at 
doctorsofrunning@gmail.com. 

1425
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:26,040
You can check out our Instagram 
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1426
01:15:26,040 --> 01:15:30,760
that through the direct messages
there in YouTube comments and 

1427
01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:34,200
then we also are on threads. 
Now Baca is so happy to have a 

1428
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:37,480
whole other media thing to to 
manage, but that is a very 

1429
01:15:37,480 --> 01:15:40,600
conversational platform that 
that we've been using. 

1430
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:43,360
So you can pop over there and 
enter some ideas for. 

1431
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:47,040
The feature Mail Bank Episodes. 
But thank you all for joining us

1432
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:48,160
and we'll see you next time.