1
00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:10,920
Hey everyone, and welcome to the
Doctors Are Running podcast 

2
00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:13,560
where we, a group of doctors of 
physical therapy, talk about the

3
00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:15,960
art and the science of the 
things that we put on our feet. 

4
00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,200
Today we have Doctor Sloss and 
myself who are going to do a buy

5
00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,120
and sell episode. 
Both of us have had quite a bit 

6
00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,040
going on. 
This might be an interesting 

7
00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:27,440
episode. 
I am pretty tired, so I might be

8
00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:28,880
a little mean to some companies 
out there. 

9
00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:30,600
No, I'm just kidding. 
I'll be meeting companies, but 

10
00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,080
David is getting back into 
mileage. 

11
00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:35,760
We're trying to have everything 
settled down. 

12
00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:37,080
How's life David? 
How you doing A? 

13
00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:41,760
Little bit better. 
I mean, you guys kind of know I 

14
00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,360
had, I won't go into the 
details, but I haven't been 

15
00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,240
running for the last couple of 
weeks for non personal reasons 

16
00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:51,520
as far Well, I guess not me 
someone else. 

17
00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,560
I yeah, so I wasn't even in town
for the last couple weeks 

18
00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:55,840
because of something that came 
up. 

19
00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:02,280
But we're back and I ran a three
mile run the other day and I was

20
00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:07,160
sore, which was crazy. 
I'm I mean, because it's just 

21
00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:09,200
like I'm used to running like 20
and not being sore. 

22
00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,280
So it's like it was kind of 
crazy to go for like a three 

23
00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:15,240
mile run at like 8 minute pace 
and be sore. 

24
00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,760
I feel like that's a good lesson
though in terms of like if you 

25
00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,160
know things happen in life and 
if you are forced to take a 

26
00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,480
break, it doesn't mean you 
should just jump back in. 

27
00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,200
Because your body both adapts 
and de adapts. 

28
00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,320
And while it might be quicker 
getting back into it, you still 

29
00:01:31,320 --> 00:01:34,400
always want to ease your way 
back because bodies typically 

30
00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,000
don't do well with being 
shocked. 

31
00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,280
Like any sudden changes 
typically aren't great, 

32
00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:44,320
especially sudden ramp up. 
So kudos on you for for having 

33
00:01:44,320 --> 00:01:47,560
the maturity to ease into that 
and go, hey, I'm going to do the

34
00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,600
right thing. 
And wow, I'm sore after three 

35
00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,760
miles. 
Yeah, but I did 7 yesterday and 

36
00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,880
three today, so that's now four 
runs since coming back into 

37
00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:57,840
town. 
Nice. 

38
00:01:58,720 --> 00:01:59,680
Sweet. 
Yeah. 

39
00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:01,080
It was one of those things. 
There might have been some 

40
00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,760
atrophy too, because there was 
just not much movement at all 

41
00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:05,280
during that time. 
But yeah. 

42
00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:06,760
Yeah. 
All right. 

43
00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:09,320
Are we ready for our buy or 
sell? 

44
00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:14,320
Yeah, you know we could do that.
Oh also NCAA brackets just came 

45
00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,520
out. 
I know you have 0 following of. 

46
00:02:17,920 --> 00:02:19,640
These. 
Such events but. 

47
00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,520
If this shoe was a NCAA team, 
which one? 

48
00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:25,640
I don't. 
Know but Nate's Wisconsin 

49
00:02:25,640 --> 00:02:28,400
Badgers and my Saint Mary's 
gales are both in. 

50
00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,320
His team is a 3C, mine is A7. 
We will see how things shake 

51
00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,520
out. 
We can move forward now. 

52
00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:35,720
We can move. 
Forward 'cause I. 

53
00:02:35,920 --> 00:02:38,920
I we got to put like one soft 
sports plug in there even if you

54
00:02:38,920 --> 00:02:40,520
get lost. 
That's fair. 

55
00:02:40,640 --> 00:02:42,720
I mean, it's not like we've been
doing that for this entire the 

56
00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:44,640
length of the life of this 
entire podcast. 

57
00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:47,640
So that's it's the thing. 
Alright, let's jump into the buy

58
00:02:47,640 --> 00:02:50,320
and sell. 
I am hoping that some of these I

59
00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:54,280
think we'll probably agree. 
I'm hoping we don't because it's

60
00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,400
more fun if we don't, but I'm 
going to go to town. 

61
00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,440
I got some recently developed 
pretty strong opinions on this 

62
00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:02,040
stuff. 
And so I'm going to let's let's 

63
00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,600
go over this. 
So our first one in honor of 

64
00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:06,880
some, I guess it's been a 
minute. 

65
00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:12,800
How long has it been since that 
happened to poor Raj sucked. 

66
00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,320
I know, right? 
So if you're listening to this 

67
00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:18,840
out there, I'm so sorry, man. 
Yeah, that really sucks. 

68
00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,240
Anyway, for those who don't 
know, Raj was a phenomenal 

69
00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,280
athlete and also phenomenal 
human being. 

70
00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,840
Shout out after getting to meet 
him at one of the ultras that 

71
00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:28,920
Regina was doing. 
Awesome human being. 

72
00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:35,120
Ran the US 100 mile Champion Rd.
championships in the Skyward X 

73
00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,160
and 1:00 and then was 
disqualified shortly thereafter 

74
00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,680
because technically the Skyward 
X is a illegal shoe. 

75
00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:43,840
And so that kind of sucks after 
doing 100 miles. 

76
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,840
And I'll be honest that I don't 
think that shoes that fast. 

77
00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,800
And then I would not take that 
for 100 miles. 

78
00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,520
That would be difficult. 
So yeah, yeah, kudos to you Raj,

79
00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,480
for doing 100 miles in that. 
So our first 100, not our first 

80
00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:59,360
hundred, our first buy and sell.
Question is, would David, do you

81
00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:04,360
buy or sell shoes over 40mm? 
Should be W World Athletics 

82
00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,760
legal? 
Yeah, I think it's an 

83
00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,320
interesting question. 
I would love to answer with a 

84
00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:15,000
more Gray middle ground answer. 
I I think there needs to be 

85
00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,320
restrictions, more specific 
restrictions on the shoes 

86
00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:23,920
themselves because in the 
example of let's say the Skyward

87
00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:28,080
X in that race for one ultra 
race has never cared before this

88
00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,800
event. 
So it's also kind of silly, but 

89
00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,640
on top of that, like that she 
was like 12 ounces, man. 

90
00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,320
Like when I look at like the 
hookah lineup and like the shoes

91
00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,440
that I'm not an ultra runner, I 
don't look at running 100 mile 

92
00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,520
races. 
But like you said, running 100 

93
00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:43,440
miles in that shoe for me would 
be tough. 

94
00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,880
That's a heavy shoe to lift 
around for 100 miles. 

95
00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:52,200
Like I don't think 48mm of stack
or whatever it was, was the 

96
00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,680
difference between him winning 
or not winning that race. 

97
00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:56,720
And I don't think it was an 
unfair and advantage. 

98
00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,680
So I'm just going to put that 
out there in the universe right 

99
00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:03,000
now. 
I think the weight that comes 

100
00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,480
with that shoe would have offset
any improvements you probably 

101
00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:08,640
would have got from stack height
in that situation. 

102
00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:14,320
So I think if we're going to 
stick to the 40mm thing, then 

103
00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,760
you stick to the 40mm thing. 
I don't, I'm not opposed to 

104
00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:22,280
shoes being over 40mm. 
I think where this gets dicey is

105
00:05:22,280 --> 00:05:23,720
maybe putting a weight 
restriction. 

106
00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,840
Now let's say if he was running 
in like a Prime X where it was 

107
00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:31,440
like a 50mm stack shoe and like 
8 oz, that might change things. 

108
00:05:31,840 --> 00:05:33,880
That's still pretty light, 
right? 

109
00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,320
Like looking at the what they 
can do with shoes now, like you 

110
00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,560
look at the Evo, my gosh, why am
I blinking? 

111
00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:42,200
The Evo one? 
What is it? 

112
00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:46,400
Yeah, the Evo Pro 1. 
Yeah, it's 5 oz, you know, and 

113
00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:48,840
all these companies are starting
to come out with shoes that are 

114
00:05:48,840 --> 00:05:52,720
like 6 ounces. 
So you add 5mm of stack on that.

115
00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:57,400
You can still get a shoe like 
potentially even under 8 oz like

116
00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:02,480
in the high sevens, which that 
is a super shoe that is above 

117
00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,600
world athletic standards and 
would probably give you some 

118
00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,320
economic benefits most likely if
they can get the geometry and 

119
00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:12,040
everything figured out. 
But if it's like well over 5 

120
00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:16,960
ounces, in this case, 7 oz 
heavier, double the weight of 

121
00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,400
the lightest weight racing shoe 
right now, I don't see that 

122
00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:27,440
being advantageous in a way that
would that would unfairly give 

123
00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,320
someone a performance edge. 
I I think they just need to be 

124
00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,440
cleaner about what they allow 
and what they don't allow. 

125
00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:39,200
I think the 40mm rule was put in
place mainly due to the 

126
00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,360
supercritical foams, carbon 
plates, these super light shoes.

127
00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,000
They were like, OK, we got to 
put a line somewhere because 

128
00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:46,440
people are going to go crazy 
with this. 

129
00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,840
But people are starting to go 
crazy now that they have that 

130
00:06:50,840 --> 00:06:53,240
40mm restriction. 
People are starting to go 

131
00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,480
crazier with weight and with 
geometries. 

132
00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:57,600
And so people are going to find 
ways around it. 

133
00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,880
Like that's just the thing or 
they're just going to make a 

134
00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:03,960
better product from a material 
standpoint that should not, that

135
00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,760
should maybe we should have a 
classification for. 

136
00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,360
I know you're pointing at it. 
He's pointing for the listeners 

137
00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,000
that can't watch. 
He's pointing at the Wave 

138
00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:15,440
Rebellion Pro 3, which some 
people have measured to be over 

139
00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:21,000
40 by a decent margin. 
But the way that the use measure

140
00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:26,560
stack legally it, it counts. 
So I don't know, I'm just it's 

141
00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,040
World Athletics legal. 
I'm just going to say it's World

142
00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:30,600
Athletics legal. 
I'm not going to go into that 

143
00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,000
one too deeply, but I think 
there just needs to be more 

144
00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,800
restrictions on it. 
So I guess I'll say I'm a cell, 

145
00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,880
but the only reason why is 
because I think there needs to 

146
00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,160
be a deeper caveat besides 40mm 
and one plate. 

147
00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,080
I think there needs to be some 
other things in there. 

148
00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,720
And maybe there has to be like a
weight restriction of some kind 

149
00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,000
or like if a shoe is over this 
weight, like it's allowed 

150
00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:57,400
because as of right now, like if
you run in a Nimbus, that is not

151
00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,200
allowed, that is an illegal 
shoe. 

152
00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,480
The ASICS Nimbus, a daily 
trainer, most of the premium 

153
00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,440
training shoes right now that 
you may like you would not 

154
00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:09,720
consider a fast shoe are illegal
based on the 40mm stack kite 

155
00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,600
rule. 
So, and there's plenty of people

156
00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:14,640
running in those. 
And let's say the Hoka Clifton, 

157
00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:19,920
for example, that's normally 
what 4035 and they just added 

158
00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,120
3mm of stack in the heel to make
it be an 8mm drop. 

159
00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:26,320
So now that's illegal if that's 
over 40. 

160
00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:28,760
So you run an ultra marathon in 
a Clifton, It's not allowed 

161
00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:30,840
anymore. 
I don't know. 

162
00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,799
This is also me kind of just 
going on a rant but they they 

163
00:08:34,799 --> 00:08:37,600
made it an 8mm drop and it was 
because they added three in the 

164
00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,840
heel and if the previous models 
have been at 40 even though they

165
00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,559
haven't published their stack 
heights it would be over 40. 

166
00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,080
That would put it over 40 even 
if it was 39. 

167
00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,560
They did not publish the stack. 
I at least didn't send it to us,

168
00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:52,240
so I'm looking up really quick. 
Apologize for the tapping. 

169
00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,640
Yeah. 
So it's per the Internet the 

170
00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,640
whole Clifton 10 has a 42mm heel
which would theoretically make 

171
00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,560
it in the legal shoe as with 
many. 

172
00:09:03,560 --> 00:09:06,840
So, so you say wait, so you're 
saying you are a sell on this on

173
00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,680
the 40mm being legal or what do 
you what buy or sell on that? 

174
00:09:09,680 --> 00:09:11,640
Oh, wait, wait, wait, sorry. 
Oh, I'm sorry. 

175
00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:16,240
My bad, my bad. 
She's over 40mm should be I'm a 

176
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,520
buy them. 
OK, I think, but there needs to 

177
00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:23,360
be the caveat of some kind of a 
weight restriction or some maybe

178
00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,520
properties or like like a 
checklist. 

179
00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,640
And if it meets a certain amount
of those checks, then it's good.

180
00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,960
And then if it or if it doesn't 
meet those, like, let's say it's

181
00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:39,640
like under 8 oz over 40, you 
know, P backs foam, one plate or

182
00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,880
two plates, you know, I mean, 
and then if it meets like two of

183
00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,080
the four or something, then it's
like probably not as 

184
00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,800
advantageous as meeting all of 
the four, you know, underneath 

185
00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:50,680
those there. 
I think there just has to be a 

186
00:09:50,680 --> 00:09:53,000
caveat on that. 
I just don't see a situation 

187
00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:57,600
where the Skyward X is, is the 
deal breaker on on a shoe. 

188
00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,320
So sorry, I've, I'm going on a 
rant here. 

189
00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,640
I know the guy personally and he
would never, ever, ever cheat 

190
00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:06,640
intentionally. 
Like you said, he's a great 

191
00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,520
human being. 
He is 10,010 thousand times 

192
00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:11,920
over. 
So, yeah, if you listen to this,

193
00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,720
Raj, much love. 
I'm really, really sorry that 

194
00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,360
happened to you. 
So I'm going to go, I agree in 

195
00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,680
terms of buy, but I for 
different reasons. 

196
00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,720
So I, the more that I've watched
footwear and I know there is 

197
00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,960
some crazy stuff out there that 
comes out that really from a 

198
00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,920
material standpoint, you can't 
really sell and make a profit 

199
00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,360
from just how difficult that is.
So when you actually get a 

200
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,000
product to market that what 
happens when you get taller and 

201
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,880
taller stack heights, there's a 
significant diminishing of 

202
00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,520
returns. 
It doesn't get better, you know,

203
00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,560
and I'm was holding up the 
Mizuna wave rebellion pro 3. 

204
00:10:45,560 --> 00:10:48,120
Like I appreciate that shoe. 
I don't really totally like it. 

205
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:52,240
It's not something I would ever 
choose for a race because I 

206
00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,040
would much rather have half that
stack height and have it be a 

207
00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,560
lot lighter. 
It's not the lightest shoe. 

208
00:10:57,560 --> 00:11:01,000
I mean, it's not terrible, but 
more isn't better. 

209
00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:02,880
It's the same thing with the 
primate strung 2. 

210
00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,000
I even though that shoe actually
works very well for my 

211
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,160
mechanics, It's got like a very 
strong lateral bias. 

212
00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,120
And a lot of people have 
recently comments like, oh, it 

213
00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,440
actually weirdly works almost 
like it's a borderline stability

214
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,080
shoe. 
It's heavy. 

215
00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,880
Like, yeah, it's 50mm of stack 
in the heel, but it's not 

216
00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:22,240
something I would ever use for 
racing because it's way too 

217
00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,160
heavy. 
Even for 100 mile. 

218
00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,200
I don't think I would use it 
because I, you know, it's just 

219
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,400
too much. 
And so when you start getting 

220
00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,680
taller and taller and taller, if
the shoe is going to be super 

221
00:11:32,680 --> 00:11:37,000
unstable, which happened to me 
with the Hocus Cielo X1 version 

222
00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,880
2 where I'm like, I can't, you 
know, I can't run in this like I

223
00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:41,960
really want to. 
But the first version that was 

224
00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:46,400
like 21 or 232 oz heavier is I 
like it better, you know, And I 

225
00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:48,880
had this incredible bounce, 
which the second version does 

226
00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:53,280
too, but it's just not stable. 
That's supposedly, what, 46mm of

227
00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:54,960
heel? 
But same thing as Rebellion Pro,

228
00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:56,520
they're kind of getting around 
the rules. 

229
00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,680
And it's like, OK, so if people 
are getting around this, what's 

230
00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:02,400
the point if a shoe like the 
Clifton is now theoretically 

231
00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,560
illegal or why am I forgetting 
the most popular Hoka shoe ever?

232
00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:09,520
What's the the Bondi? 
Yeah, the Bondi is also 

233
00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:13,120
technically an illegal racing 
shoe by that there's no point. 

234
00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:14,760
Everything's going Max stack 
height. 

235
00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:19,440
And this isn't a commentary on 
that, but things aren't getting 

236
00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,640
lighter. 
They're usually getting heavier 

237
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,280
than the only time they get 
lighter is at the expense of 

238
00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,680
other mechanical things that 
might not work for everybody. 

239
00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:30,080
And so that's beyond the stack 
height. 

240
00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:31,960
So right. 
And then if you do some of the 

241
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,720
crazy stuff that we're talking 
about, like, you know, the Evo 

242
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:38,320
Pro 1, the durability either 
goes in the toilet. 

243
00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,160
Like I don't think the Evo Pro 
One wouldn't be a shoe you'd use

244
00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,680
for 100 mile race because it's 
only theoretically supposed to 

245
00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:45,360
be for one marathon. 
It's not going to make it that 

246
00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:47,920
far. 
And when you get things that 

247
00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:50,560
light, you lose some of the 
other economy benefits. 

248
00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:52,640
They're really bank. 
Adidas is banking on the 

249
00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,360
lightweight, but I didn't find 
that shoe that responsive. 

250
00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:59,680
It's light, but I didn't get a 
lot of that bounce that I was 

251
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:03,120
really hoping for and some other
shoes are like an ounce heavier 

252
00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:08,280
or like even the 361 mirror, 
which is like my pretty much my 

253
00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,400
favorite shoe. 
The durability is trash, but 

254
00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:12,920
it's super light. 
It's not over 40. 

255
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:17,360
It's like 36 or 35 in the heel. 
I should know this, but I like 

256
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:22,560
this way better. 
So I'm totally a buy that 40mm 

257
00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:24,280
should be legal. 
But I do agree with you. 

258
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,600
If there's going to be 
limitations, it needs to be 

259
00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,400
there needs to be more structure
than oh, just how tall it is, 

260
00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:33,040
because height like isn't 
there's a variety. 

261
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:34,720
And we'll talk about another 
question related to height in 

262
00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:36,800
just a second. 
But I I think there's other 

263
00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,880
factors and there needs to be a 
better definition of what's 

264
00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,880
actually legal and legal. 
And this one factor is not 

265
00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,800
enough to provide structure 
because there's yeah, just the 

266
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,480
Skyward X. 
It's not a shoe I would ever 

267
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,400
take that for. 
That's just me though. 

268
00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:55,880
But it's definitely not a super 
economical shoe that's going to 

269
00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:57,640
make me feel like I go forever. 
Kudos. 

270
00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,400
So though, if it if it does for 
you, that just too soft. 

271
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,280
And yeah, so I definitely buy 
it's not a knock. 

272
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:05,200
It's. 
Decent shoe. 

273
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,800
Shoe is comfortable. 
It's just heavy, right? 

274
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,680
Like like out of the lineup. 
It's like the mock X2 if you 

275
00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:14,080
have the clip. 
I mean even just the Clifton for

276
00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,160
100 miles. 
Like just running in a basic 

277
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:20,560
lightweight kind of shoe. 
Like I feel like I would still 

278
00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,640
choose the Clifton over the 
Skyward X. 

279
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,320
Oh yeah. 
Is that an unfair advantage? 

280
00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,000
I don't think so, no. 
So, yeah. 

281
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,320
Yeah. 
See. 

282
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:31,880
It's a juicy one. 
Hopefully this is a little 

283
00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:33,120
spicy. 
All right, so. 

284
00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:34,880
We agreed and it was spicy, so 
that's good. 

285
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,200
I mean, today might be a little 
bit unhinged, you know, we're 

286
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:38,480
both sleep deprived and we're 
both. 

287
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:39,920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're, we're 
doing it. 

288
00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,240
Unhinged was probably the better
term that I was looking for. 

289
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,040
All right, Question 2. 
Buy or sell? 

290
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,400
There are certain brands that 
will simply not work for certain

291
00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:49,760
runners. 
What do you think? 

292
00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:51,120
I'll buy it. 
Buy it. 

293
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:52,360
Yeah. 
Yeah, I'll buy it. 

294
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,600
You know, most companies, even 
though there's usually a wide 

295
00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,960
array of offerings now way 
better than it used to be, some 

296
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,040
companies still stick to their 
guns on certain philosophies and

297
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,440
some of those philosophies just 
don't work for everyone. 

298
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,760
You know, I think a classic 
example in the running category 

299
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,240
would have been like Ultra 
previous to this year where they

300
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,080
were a 0mm drop company. 
Some people just don't run well 

301
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,680
in 0mm drop shoes. 
You're going to have the Zealots

302
00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:19,760
that do and love it. 
And it's one of the things that 

303
00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,200
have made Ultra successful as 
they are that in the white toe 

304
00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:24,920
box and some of the other things
that they stick to 

305
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:26,800
traditionally, you know, in most
models. 

306
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,320
But it just doesn't work for 
everyone, right? 

307
00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,200
And I think of another company 
when you look at more on the 

308
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,800
minimalist side of things, you 
look at a company like 0, there 

309
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,040
are people that do run in zeros 
and am I one of them? 

310
00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:44,200
Not no. 
I just like I don't have the 

311
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,440
strength and the mobility that 
is required to run in that shoe.

312
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,720
I'll be honest and say that if 
I'm doing it for like strides 

313
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,160
and things like that, that could
be a really fun shoot to do some

314
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,560
strides and some light like 
pickups in but like for actual 

315
00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,120
mileage and daily running. 
I just I'm not durable enough to

316
00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,640
run in those things. 
But some people love it, right? 

317
00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:06,520
Like so I'm I'm a buy on that. 
I think even just looking 

318
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,880
classically like even previously
now, this has changed in more 

319
00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,080
recent years, but Nike was 
always kind of viewed as being 

320
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,880
really narrow through the 
midfoot and very like cinched up

321
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:17,960
in some of those earlier days. 
And it's like some people just 

322
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,040
couldn't do that, right. 
And like most of their shoes 

323
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,560
were that, you know, like, 
that's not like that was a 

324
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:25,600
pretty classic statement people 
would make. 

325
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,880
So it's, it's better now from 
that company. 

326
00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,840
But yeah, I, I, I'm a buy. 
I think some brands and 

327
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,080
philosophies just won't work for
certain people. 

328
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,000
I'm the same as you. 
I think that that is it's a buy 

329
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:40,720
for me as well that that's just 
the way it goes. 

330
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,360
I was on the fence though, 
because you made a great comment

331
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,560
that in the past companies 
usually stuck to their guns like

332
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,080
you knew what was a Nike, you 
knew it was Adidas, you knew 

333
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,400
what was a Brooks, You know now,
and I don't know, I'm I'm really

334
00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,440
curious to hear some insight 
from those inside the industry. 

335
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,800
But I feel like there's so much 
turnover that people move so 

336
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:03,480
quickly that at as part of the 
result of that, you're seeing a 

337
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,599
lot of change, which can also be
great that companies are 

338
00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:09,200
developing some new stuff. 
It can also be really difficult 

339
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,480
for people that are looking for,
Hey, I want my consistent shoe. 

340
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,000
I want it to stay the same. 
I don't want to have to go find 

341
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,760
a new model where that's kind of
where we are now where wet. 

342
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:20,079
And we'll have a question about 
this. 

343
00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:23,200
When the shoes do change, they 
change like frequently 

344
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,319
completely like it's totally 
different shoe. 

345
00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,680
And so I almost hesitated to say
this, but I think you're right 

346
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,320
that there are some design 
philosophies that some companies

347
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,440
still hold true of that just 
aren't going to work for 

348
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:39,000
everybody. 
And I think either like the, you

349
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,680
know, minimalism stuff, so 
either 0, for example, being 

350
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:43,320
more minimal, that's not going 
to work for everybody. 

351
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,600
It's a great company, does great
things, but it's not going to 

352
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,440
work for everyone because 
minimalism and that stuff is 

353
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:50,840
not, isn't appropriate for every
single run. 

354
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,680
Those people that just have 
mechanical things or they don't 

355
00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,320
have time to put the work in 
necessary to be able to use 

356
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,640
those safely, that's the way it 
goes. 

357
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:00,960
There's also going to be people 
like, you know, Hoka, for 

358
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,480
example, typically makes very 
high stack height shoes. 

359
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,440
That's how they're going to, 
that may not work for everyone 

360
00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,720
and that's OK. 
Nike is going to have a lot of 

361
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,480
their shoes are going to have a 
kind of a certain derometer and 

362
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,560
they're going to compress at a 
certain rate that may not match 

363
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:19,920
with somebody who had just found
for whatever reasons, another 

364
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:21,800
company kind of has more 
consistent with that. 

365
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,440
So 100% agree. 
Total buy. 

366
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,680
There are brands that simply 
aren't going to work for certain

367
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,680
runners, and that's not a knock.
And I honestly think that's OK. 

368
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,440
Like you don't need to make a 
shoe for every single person. 

369
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,360
In fact, I think it's sometimes 
nice to go, hey, we have our 

370
00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:39,760
niche and we know who we are so 
that runners kind of get a 

371
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,640
better, oh, OK, here's where 
kind of I am. 

372
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:44,600
I do well here. 
I can try this stuff, but here's

373
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,240
where I typically do well where 
I think that's a lot more 

374
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,000
confusing for people now. 
Yeah, I think that's also like 

375
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,120
part of being a brand too, 
right? 

376
00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:54,000
Yeah. 
You look at apparel and things 

377
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,360
like that, it's the same thing. 
Each brand tries to tell their 

378
00:18:56,360 --> 00:18:58,840
own story, their own philosophy,
what makes them different, not 

379
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:00,120
what makes them the same. 
Yeah. 

380
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,280
I feel like some of that's 
getting lost the apparel. 

381
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,560
You could sometimes see that in 
the, in the like, in how things 

382
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,800
are designed in like the like, 
especially the artistic message 

383
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,360
behind it. 
But in terms of like, there are 

384
00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:14,800
some things that are starting to
blend. 

385
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,040
You're like, well, I know 
everybody's moving and people 

386
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,480
sharing ideas, which is fine, 
but it used to be way easier to 

387
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,200
tell the different people where 
and now it's sometimes it's 

388
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:24,880
harder. 
But I'm still a bond though. 

389
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:29,720
All right, next one, and this is
me being a grump, buy or sell. 

390
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,080
No one will ever make a 
stability super racing shoe. 

391
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,960
I'm going to start. 
I'm a straight up, I'm a buy on 

392
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:37,360
this. 
I don't think anybody's going to

393
00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:39,240
do it. 
We've already had like the death

394
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:43,320
of stability shoes and if 
anything, we had like actually 4

395
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,680
halfway decent stable neutral 
options. 

396
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:46,840
I'm going to this is unhinged 
right now. 

397
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,080
We had four stable neutral 
options. 

398
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:54,880
We had the Saucony Endorphin 
Elite one, we had the Hocus 

399
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:59,040
Yellow X1 Version one, we had 
the Saucony Endorphin Pro 4, 

400
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:03,000
which was OK, and then the Hoka 
Rocket X2. 

401
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:08,440
So both Saucony and Hoka were 
doing a halfway decent job. 

402
00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:13,440
Now half of that 4 is gone now, 
OK, this Endorphin Elite 2, it's

403
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,440
a phenomenal, it's super 
interesting shoe. 

404
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,400
It is the exact opposite of 
stable, OK, It is super soft 

405
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,200
narrowed midfoot. 
It's not stable. 

406
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,360
The Cielo X1 version 2, it's not
stable. 

407
00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:27,800
It is immediately biased. 
So we have the Endorphin Pro 4, 

408
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,680
which is still like awe. 
And then we have the Hoka Rocket

409
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:35,080
X2, which has like not great 
durability, which you as and 

410
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,880
that's just be complaining that,
yeah, I read this is like 60-70 

411
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:39,960
miles. 
I wanted to do 100 mile review 

412
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,160
in this and I couldn't like it 
came off. 

413
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,320
So maybe I should just run in 
this and injure myself. 

414
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,960
No, So and it's kind of 
frustrating. 

415
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,480
I know that not everybody needs 
stability and that's not the 

416
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,560
point. 
And that did happen, you know, 

417
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,240
1020 years ago where everything 
was going into that stability 

418
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:57,440
thing and they're like, they 
were trying to stay. 

419
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:01,040
I was like, OK, I I get it, but 
it would be nice to have an 

420
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,160
option, right? 
Like the the original Adidas, 

421
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:08,240
like some of the older Adidas 
tempo models were phenomenal. 

422
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,520
They were great. 
The tempo was great. 

423
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,880
And now that she was dead. 
Thanks, Adidas, it's dead. 

424
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:14,800
I mean, you just have some 
stable neutral stuff. 

425
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,160
It's fine. 
The new audios Pro 4 is not 

426
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:21,440
stable at all. 
But yeah, I'm convinced this is 

427
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,720
never gonna happen. 
And for those of us that have 

428
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,480
stability needs, either you're 
just going to have to do your 

429
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,560
best and pray that you can make 
it through your longer race or 

430
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,120
like you're kind of limited to a
few options. 

431
00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:35,400
Or again, this is where people 
that have stability needs have 

432
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,680
to really branch out and go. 
What stability mechanism might 

433
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,680
work for me? 
Like is it a side wall, which 

434
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,240
there's not as many? 
Is it just stiffness? 

435
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,800
Do I just need the stiff issue 
possible and that might help 

436
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,080
stabilize me or I just I have to
go to town. 

437
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,680
I'm really, really working on my
hip and ankle stability like. 

438
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,080
Doesn't Newton don't they have a
distance S 9? 

439
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:56,680
That's not it's it's. 
Just. 

440
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:58,720
Super racing shoes. 
Sorry, Newton. 

441
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,080
No, I was like, wait a second, 
there is. 

442
00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:05,400
No, I said super, super racing 
shoe, stability racing shoe. 

443
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,120
That's never happening. 
So no. 

444
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,240
So I have a buy. 
This is never happening. 

445
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,080
At this point. 
If it is, somebody reach out and

446
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,640
tell us, but I'm convinced it's 
not so buy because it's not, 

447
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,640
it's not going to happen. 
If you're listening, just make a

448
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,480
peeba Adidas tempo and. 
Yeah, seriously. 

449
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,760
Fine movie plus. 
I'd be very happy. 

450
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,280
Shoe of the year. 
I don't care if the upper sucks.

451
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,680
It's going to be it's just just 
because you made it. 

452
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,040
I'll make it shoe of the year, 
but you're just going to get mad

453
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,400
because I'm like yelling into 
the mic and he's like, dude, I 

454
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,440
have to fix the gain. 
Again, like I told you not to 

455
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:43,680
yell on the mic. 
So I guess my take. 

456
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:45,680
I'm a cell. 
Oh, you're a cell? 

457
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,240
OK, let's hear your overly 
optimistic opinion. 

458
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,600
Unnecessarily optimistic. 
So the word is ever. 

459
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,760
I think someone at some point, 
somewhere, somehow will make one

460
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:02,000
and the next from now to 
forever. 

461
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,480
If nothing else, these rants 
maybe will will result in one 

462
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,240
ADS trainer racer or DS racer 
maybe. 

463
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,600
Man, I don't know, like some Oh.
6. 

464
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,720
Somehow make something, someone 
will make something. 

465
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,280
I don't know, like, because it 
was a thing, right? 

466
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,240
Like they existed and then they 
didn't right. 

467
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,920
So I think it'll come back 
around like everything else, 

468
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,600
every like like these trends 
kind of circle back on 

469
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,480
themselves. 
Like I I think eventually we 

470
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,760
will have 1. 
So I am a sell. 

471
00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:37,040
I have a total buy. 
I mean, so let's let's list 

472
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:38,840
these out. 
So the Adidas Temple, there was 

473
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:44,960
another Adidas, another Adidas 
like True Stability Racing shoe 

474
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,120
and I did a review of it, but I 
had to order it from Japan. 

475
00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:49,440
I can't remember what it was 
called on. 

476
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,600
Was it one of the ones that had 
like Addy something? 

477
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,640
Yeah, it, it was, but it, it was
immediately post. 

478
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,920
I think the post was actually 
either in the IT was in the heel

479
00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,680
or in the forefoot. 
Actually ASICS had both the DS 

480
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,680
racer, which was a stability 
racing shoe. 

481
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,400
They yeah, they also had the 
Tarther that that had a four 

482
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:08,640
foot. 
Medial host Yeah, I know what 

483
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:09,760
you're talking about. 
It was the. 

484
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:11,200
That was one, right? 
Yeah. 

485
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,680
Actually. 
'Cause I had a regular Tartar 

486
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,640
edge and then they had like a, 
they had like a stability 

487
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,240
version of it, yeah. 
Yes, yeah. 

488
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:19,960
And so I actually had that 
downstairs still. 

489
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:21,200
I did a half marathon. 
It was great. 

490
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,240
I did the Pasadena. 
I didn't round anymore. 

491
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,200
No, I did the Pasadena Half 
Marathon one time on what 

492
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,000
should. 
Nitrous that that sounds like a 

493
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,280
yeah, you should they call it 
Rochelle half, I think no. 

494
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:32,600
Yeah, you're right. 
It's Rose Bowl. 

495
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,800
Yeah, so you should. 
Be like no one wants to come to 

496
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,280
Pasadena, so if we call it the 
Rose Bowl, half people will 

497
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,600
come. 
That's unhinged down. 

498
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:45,840
We're going to get trouble more.
Nike had one and I, I can see it

499
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,120
in my mind. 
It had a, it had a medial post 

500
00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:51,760
in the heel. 
Saucony obviously had the fast 

501
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,400
switch, which is phenomenal. 
But yeah, those are all gone. 

502
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,280
So a lot of people had it. 
But I, you know, I'd love to be 

503
00:24:58,280 --> 00:24:59,800
hopeful, but I'm in a grumpy 
mood. 

504
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:04,560
So I think I'm still up by no 
one ever do it, but maybe I'd be

505
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,000
hopeful later after I've had 
some sleep. 

506
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,560
All right, buy or sell highly 
flexible racing shoes. 

507
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,520
Now, do we want to clarify this 
as super racing shoes or just 

508
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,080
highly flexible racing shoes in 
general? 

509
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,960
Just racing shoes in general. 
Just like racing shoes. 

510
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:21,760
All right, go. 
Yeah, I'm a buy. 

511
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,440
I think it gives people more 
options. 

512
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,240
Some people don't respond as 
well to these super stiff plated

513
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,240
shoes. 
And I think of some of the 

514
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,040
people that in the past like you
had the shoes like the Hoka 

515
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,520
Rehi, he had even things like 
the Nike Streak LT's and some of

516
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,760
those like lower profile, 
quicker kind of feeling shoes 

517
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,760
that I'm thinking more like high
school, college kind of right 

518
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,320
now. 
Obviously things have kind of 

519
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,480
changed now that we have the 
Vapor Fly and some of these 

520
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,600
other things. 
But some people do like that 

521
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,960
feeling of just kind of flexible
forefoot with a really grippy 

522
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,200
outsole like that. 
There is still a market for 

523
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,160
that. 
And I think even though it's not

524
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:03,440
as big as it once was, I'm still
in support of it existing. 

525
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,440
And especially because I really 
like those shoes for workouts, 

526
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:10,880
even though I don't necessarily 
choose to race in them, I think 

527
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:12,920
it is still worth having them 
around. 

528
00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:17,080
And I think like there's also 
the Hocus yellow Rd. granted 

529
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,040
that one is a little bit 
stiffer. 

530
00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:22,360
As far as a highly flexible, 
it's not you can't just like 

531
00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:26,600
fold it on itself, but it's way 
more flexible than these super 

532
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,480
stiff plated shoes. 
And that could easily still be a

533
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,000
good 5K10K racing shoe for 
someone. 

534
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,000
And even something like the 
Takumi san where it's a little 

535
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,120
bit more flexible because of the
plastic rods as well. 

536
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,960
So I I'm still a fan of having 
them around. 

537
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,880
I I don't see any reason not to 
Saucony the sinister. 

538
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,440
That was a solid flat. 
Like for the right person, that 

539
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,240
could be an E that that could be
their race issue and they would 

540
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:53,960
choose that shoe over other 
shoes. 

541
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,120
It's 4 oz. 
It's really flexible, but it's a

542
00:26:57,120 --> 00:26:59,760
peep of midsole and it's crippy.
Like it's something that it 

543
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,240
feels kind of like a track spike
on your foot, right, But without

544
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,360
the spikes. 
So I think there's still a 

545
00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:07,960
market for it. 
I'll be at it's small, but I 

546
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,560
think I think it's still there 
and I think it's still worth 

547
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,120
having. 
So I'm actually a buy on this 

548
00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:16,000
even though I may not choose 
them for myself personally. 

549
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,600
I'm 100% a buy on this as well 
because of the variety and I 

550
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,320
we've talked about McCloud study
for years here that different 

551
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,360
people respond differently to 
different levels of stiffness, 

552
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:27,720
that some people are going to 
respond very, very well, other 

553
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,080
people are not. 
And having some variety is kind 

554
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:31,760
of key to be able to match what 
everybody needs. 

555
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,240
We frequently get a question on 
here going, hey, I'm getting 

556
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,920
this weird symptoms in the front
of my foot and I just started 

557
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,360
running and plated shoes. 
I'm like that. 

558
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,000
I mean, if you can't adapt to 
it, that might not be right for 

559
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,880
you. 
And that's how it goes because 

560
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,640
if you can't, the plates have to
line up with a your mechanics. 

561
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,280
They have to line up with some 
of the bio mechanics of your 

562
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,040
first metatarsophalangeal joint.
If you're asking how do you know

563
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,800
that if you get like some insane
like imaging, that's going to 

564
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,640
cost tons of money and people 
aren't going to know what to do 

565
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,560
with the information or you just
put it on and go, is this 

566
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,880
comfortable or not? 
This the second one's a lot 

567
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:04,960
simpler. 
I I'm a total buyer. 

568
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,200
We need that variety. 
I'm also and I'm not going to do

569
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,800
I will do a Monday shake out on 
this at some point. 

570
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,080
But there was an article just 
published in the journal of 

571
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,200
Footwear science titled 
effective increasing bending 

572
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,960
stiffness on running economy and
joint bio mechanics and uphill 

573
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:19,680
running and running on unstable 
terrain. 

574
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,520
Is there any evidence for 
embedding carbon plates in trail

575
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,960
running footwear? 
It's from Clement Jubilee and 

576
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:30,840
Marlene Gian Deloney, just FYI. 
They submitted it March 2024. 

577
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,120
It just got published January 
2025 S just for those of you I 

578
00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:36,800
don't know how long and how much
of a pain in the butt publishing

579
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,840
research is took almost a whole 
year. 

580
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:44,880
So what they did is they 
actually did outdoor VO2 Max 

581
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,960
testing and on trail on a set 
course that people figured out 

582
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,480
and they look also did bio 
mechanics testing out there 

583
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,720
looking at joint angles, looking
at comfort did all this stuff 

584
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,600
which kudos. 
So this is really hard to 

585
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,800
control. 
But what they found 

586
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,760
surprisingly, is that increasing
longitudinal bending stiffness 

587
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:07,080
trail does not lead to metabolic
power improvements during both 

588
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,880
level running and it actually 
leads to performance losses 

589
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,040
during uphill running, not 
performance economy like 

590
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,120
performance. 
That's how I feel with really 

591
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,080
stiff shoes going uphill. 
Yeah, So they actually found 

592
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,800
that like, especially when 
you're running at very low 

593
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,320
paces, but with like technical 
terrain, it's not beneficial. 

594
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,560
So it's, again, having options 
really important. 

595
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,920
There might be a small number of
people that do better on. 

596
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,120
I know we're talking about Rd. 
because that's simply where most

597
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,160
of us run, but trail also you 
can get some inferencing 

598
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,000
information where you can't be 
like, oh, we should have 

599
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,440
everything plated, everything 
super, everything stiff. 

600
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,080
No, this is a great example 
where in this unique population 

601
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,680
actually, no based on comfort to
which they found the stiffer 

602
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,160
plate, it choose to be more 
uncomfortable, which might be a 

603
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,240
problem over longer races. 
It it it had no physiological or

604
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,760
biomechanical advantage. 
So there's context here. 

605
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,200
So like I same boat where I 
think, yeah, we need some 

606
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,360
variety. 
Everybody's not going to do well

607
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,200
in a super stiff racing shoe 
that there should be still some 

608
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:08,880
flexible options. 
Sweet. 

609
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:14,680
All right #5 shoes don't need an
update every single year. 

610
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,360
Buy or sell. 
I'm a buy. 

611
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,240
I think if you're going to 
update it, update it, you know, 

612
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,640
make it a true update, make it A
and this is also kind of a 

613
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,560
tricky thing to say too, right? 
Because that doesn't mean 

614
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,880
overhaul either, right? 
I think some of the companies 

615
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,560
we've seen when they update 
something, they might change the

616
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,080
midsole halfway. 
You know, where maybe like the 

617
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,200
midsole you had in the previous 
version is now the bottom sole, 

618
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:43,200
and then they put a newer top 
sole in for the midsole. 

619
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,600
And then that's kind of them 
slowly moving towards a new foam

620
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,880
and a new experience. 
Like that is kind of an example 

621
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,200
where like that is a different 
shoe that is a genuine update 

622
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,560
and that's a different 
experience, but it's still kind 

623
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,680
of the same feel and general 
experience you would expect from

624
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,720
that same line of footwear of 
whatever it may be, 

625
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,000
respectively. 
I think of, I don't know why I'm

626
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:10,160
thinking specifically the Mizuno
Wave rider of 23 to 24 when they

627
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,400
first started introducing was it
NRZ? 

628
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,800
I think was when they introduced
that and it was like the 

629
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,920
euphoric on underside and NRZ on
the top and like that shoe, we 

630
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,400
loved it, right? 
Like at the time, obviously like

631
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,400
things are, that was a while 
ago, but it was an update 

632
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,560
without being an overhaul. 
And you see that with a lot of 

633
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,120
other companies too, like Nike 
with the previous model, the 

634
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,280
Vomero doing the Zoomax and the 
Kush line. 

635
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,760
And then I haven't had a chance 
to try the new Vomero. 

636
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:43,200
So hopefully Vomero 18 comes in 
soon because I loved Vomero 17 

637
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,960
so much. 
But things like that, you know, 

638
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,240
I, I don't think it needs to be 
every year. 

639
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,280
I just think the update needs to
be an up. 

640
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,640
It needs to be an update. 
It needs to be a large enough 

641
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:59,000
update to where something is 
noticeable, but the the general 

642
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,400
pathway of the shoe is still 
similar enough to its roots that

643
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,120
it is still that shoe, and that 
does not have to be done every 

644
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,400
12 months. 
I would definitely agree with 

645
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,160
you a buy on this and I was just
thinking about like, huh, this 

646
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:14,480
is kind of shooting ourselves in
the phone. 

647
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:16,360
We're not going to have as much 
stuff to review, which actually,

648
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,920
you know, like that's there's a 
lot of footwear out there. 

649
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,120
There's more footwear than there
ever has been. 

650
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,200
So and there's lots of stuff to 
talk about with it. 

651
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,240
But I agree, getting a shoe that
was like a tiny upper change 

652
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,320
that's not worth calling out a 
brand new shoe. 

653
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,040
Like it's just real like a small
upper thing, like call it the 

654
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,800
same shoe and move on. 
I think for, especially if 

655
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:39,760
you're going to charge more 
money. 

656
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,680
For a .5 or something. 
Yeah, that's a good point. 

657
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,760
You know, you could totally who 
who does that? 

658
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,520
There's a couple. 
There was a couple point fives 

659
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,000
out there I just that. 
Why am I forgetting? 

660
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,520
Was it ultra? 
Does ultra does the point fives?

661
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,320
Right. 
I think you're right. 

662
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,880
They had the Escalante racer 
like 2.5 or Escalante 2.5, 

663
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,440
something like that, Yeah. 
See, to me that would make sense

664
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,800
like 1.5, it's just a small 
upper update. 

665
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,640
We're not going to charge way 
more for it. 

666
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,400
And then other things an 
interesting little like side 

667
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,440
note, I'm not going to say who 
tell me who told me this, but 

668
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,280
they know who they are and all 
kudos to them. 

669
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,880
Like companies end up losing a 
lot of because they have a ton 

670
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:20,720
of product with different 
colorways and then just got to 

671
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:25,840
dump all of that on sale and 
it's it's really challenging. 

672
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,360
Running already doesn't make 
that much money from a footwear 

673
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:32,240
standpoint, but like I think 
having stuff stick around for a 

674
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,840
little bit longer would be 
helpful and also let the market 

675
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,040
sit with a little bit, get a 
little bit more time to. 

676
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,960
And I know companies do a really
good job and there's a lot of 

677
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,640
work that go not good, but 
there's a lot of work to going 

678
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,760
into analyze how people respond 
to stuff. 

679
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,480
But sometimes you just need to 
let stuff sit for a little bit. 

680
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,720
And I think it doesn't have to. 
And a lot of companies are now 

681
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,720
moving to every other year. 
We're seeing a lot of super 

682
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,640
shoes that you're not going to 
see an update for every two, 

683
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,920
maybe three years, which I think
is fine. 

684
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,720
Like if it's a good shoe, let it
sit, let it cook for a little 

685
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,800
bit, but you know, let it cook, 
right. 

686
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,480
So I, I do agree, especially 
with the number of shoes out 

687
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,719
there, because there's so many, 
like you don't get better at 

688
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,400
having a ton of different stuff 
out there. 

689
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,920
Like let your stuff develop, but
also don't go and do crazy 

690
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,600
updates that people can't follow
either. 

691
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:20,840
Like there's a balance 
somewhere. 

692
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:22,880
And I'm not an expert because 
I'm not a shoe developer. 

693
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,440
Like I can consult on this stuff
and give opinions but I'm not 

694
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,480
the one making the shoe. 
But I think there needs to be a 

695
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,480
little more consistency and just
let stuff cook. 

696
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,080
It's fine it it'll come out 
better if you give a little time

697
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:36,719
to sit on it. 
Yeah, season it. 

698
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:41,719
Season it Yep all right, number 
six I I don't this is weird one,

699
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,040
but apparently some people have 
a really strong opinion on this.

700
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,120
Buy or sell all laces should be 
flat laces. 

701
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,120
I'll just realize me saying that
is probably going to offend a 

702
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,800
lot of people that take this 
like that's really important for

703
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:52,719
us. 
So I'm really sorry. 

704
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,679
I do understand why it might be 
important. 

705
00:34:54,679 --> 00:34:57,080
I'll talk on the second, but 
David, you go first to save me 

706
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:58,200
from putting my foot in my 
mouth. 

707
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:05,000
I'm going to be a sell. 
I mean, variety is always good, 

708
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,520
I think. 
Different experiences, different

709
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,120
textures, different thicknesses 
of the laces. 

710
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,880
Like, all that stuff's fine. 
I mean, I kind of think of like 

711
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:15,880
some can be a little more 
elastic and tubular. 

712
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,760
And I know some people can 
struggle depending on how the 

713
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:20,840
pressure of that rests on their 
foot. 

714
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,200
I know there's some some lace 
zealots out there who are like, 

715
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,360
I have to have it this way. 
Like this is this is the only 

716
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,560
thing that doesn't hurt my foot.
And if that's the case, I'm glad

717
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:33,680
that you found what doesn't hurt
your foot. 

718
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,200
But I don't think that kind of 
like we're talking about with 

719
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,160
shoe designs. 
I, I just don't think that you 

720
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,160
have to stay like, you can't 
standardize like 1 design and be

721
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,920
like, OK, that's it. 
Because then someone else is 

722
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,280
going to be unhappy, right? 
Like, so there's a bunch of 

723
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:48,440
things out there. 
And then you say it all the 

724
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,200
times too, like some people like
speed laces. 

725
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,480
So it's like you just, they'll 
take the laces out anyways and 

726
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,400
just put their own speed laces. 
And so some people are super 

727
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,160
particular about it and that's 
fine, but they're the variety 

728
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,520
should be out there because even
if it was just all flat laces, 

729
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,920
there would still be people 
irritated with that so. 

730
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:08,080
I agree. 
I'm going to be a cell on this, 

731
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:09,360
even though it's going to upset 
a lot of people. 

732
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,520
I also do say I will understand 
because I've treated a lot of 

733
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,800
people that really commonly. 
So you have some tissue that 

734
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,600
goes across your extensor 
tendons right at the top of your

735
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,640
foot. 
So a like all the tendons that 

736
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,200
either from the muscles that 
either extend your whole foot or

737
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,960
extend your toes really pass on 
that area. 

738
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,560
And so a lot of people can be 
really sensitive to that. 

739
00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:35,000
The sheath that also keeps those
from popping up every time you 

740
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,120
extend your toes also is over 
there and all that stuff can be 

741
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,280
really irritable. 
There's also some cutaneous IE 

742
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:46,360
skin nerves that go up, nerves 
like three things, blood space 

743
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,240
and movement. 
And so if that compresses that, 

744
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:50,800
that can be really irritating. 
So I do understand that and not 

745
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,400
everybody is going to respond 
well if you tell them, hey, 

746
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,240
modify your lacing, do a linear 
lace. 

747
00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:58,880
There's not as much pressure. 
I totally understand, but laces 

748
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,520
usually can be replaced. 
And so if you know that that 

749
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,680
might be a good thing, go Hey, 
if the the company changed it, I

750
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,920
got laces I need. 
But for we're encouraging 

751
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,200
variety here, even though I 
think I was talking crap just 

752
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:14,400
second ago about shoes should 
not be have super massive like 

753
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,960
crazy updates like keep 
something consistent. 

754
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,840
But yeah, I think a little 
variety in lace is good because 

755
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,120
they're, there's, there's all 
kinds of research that goes into

756
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:24,960
footwear securities and that's a
piece of it. 

757
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,960
And we talk about that. 
So not all of them have to have 

758
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:29,560
that. 
I get why a lot of people are 

759
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:33,000
really like zealot about that 
stuff, but little variety is not

760
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:37,480
bad. 
All right #7 I'm going to have 

761
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:38,920
another fit. 
Right. 

762
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,760
Buy or sell. 
Not all super racing shoes need 

763
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,200
to be 40mm. 
Buy. 

764
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,560
Go. 
Yeah, I, I that's just a buy. 

765
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:54,160
They don't need to all be 40. 
Yeah, she's like 361 mirror. 

766
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,600
Yeah, you have she's like the 
Adidas Takumi San, which is 

767
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,920
phenomenal. 
Like there is just there are 

768
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,240
plenty of shoes and like, I 
think. 

769
00:38:01,240 --> 00:38:04,640
Is it Emil Karez was I'm 
blanking on his last name, the 

770
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:09,000
British dude or UK? 
He might not be British who he's

771
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,040
run like a 208207 like in the 
Maryland in Takumi sense. 

772
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:13,800
Like he just that's his shoe of 
choice. 

773
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:19,000
He just races in Takumi's and 
it's like you can run a marathon

774
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,760
in Takumi sense. 
Like there's they still have 35,

775
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:23,080
right? 
Like there's still a lot of like

776
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,320
Strike Pro. 
So it's like you don't have to 

777
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:30,320
run in 40mm shoes in order to 
have the greatest economy 

778
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:34,280
benefits for yourself. 
So I, I think it's pretty cut 

779
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:35,680
and dry on that one. 
I don't know. 

780
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,040
I I don't have much more to say 
on that. 

781
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,280
I'm a total buy because I'm 
going to go on a rant for a 

782
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:41,200
second. 
All right, cool. 

783
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,360
So we we haven't got to test 
this, but I'm really excited to 

784
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:48,240
run in the Nike vapor play four 
yes, the mid foot's narrowed and

785
00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:50,080
it's narrow, but Nike always 
kind of does that. 

786
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,720
So I'm slightly nervous, but I'm
excited for the weight decrease 

787
00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:56,480
because I just feel like stuff 
is and maybe this is me being a 

788
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,160
wimp, but stuff could be so much
lighter. 

789
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:03,760
And that's again why I like, you
know, the the ASICS meta speed 

790
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:07,200
edge, like it's way lighter than
but you know, it's still got 

791
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:11,160
almost a 40mm stack height. 
But some of the new versions we 

792
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,720
haven't gotten to, we've test to
just see them on Instagram. 

793
00:39:13,720 --> 00:39:16,200
It's like, hey, stuff's getting 
super light again. 

794
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,400
There is something to be said, 
even though I just talked crap 

795
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:24,000
about this with the Adidas evil 
pro one that lightweight does 

796
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:25,840
matter like, but it's all the 
factors. 

797
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,240
But if you start getting into 
this like, you know, 8 oz shoes,

798
00:39:29,240 --> 00:39:31,640
like I want, I personally want 
something lighter. 

799
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:33,880
I want to feel fast. 
I want to be able to turn over 

800
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:35,840
fast. 
But I also like racing half 

801
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,840
marathon below. 
Even for the marathon, the shoes

802
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,880
that I've run marathons in have 
been like lighter weight, less 

803
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:47,000
shoe there like so yeah, there's
something you said for lighter 

804
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:48,600
weight. 
I I do understand that. 

805
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:50,920
I think one of the big things 
that companies are doing is that

806
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,240
because shoes are so cushion, 
they're basically like 

807
00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:56,360
lightweight super trainers. 
And so a lot of people are able 

808
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,880
to run in those. 
But I think if you want to run 

809
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,320
fast like. 
It's nice to have something. 

810
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,640
Light, right? 
We have tears now. 

811
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,520
We have our vapor flies, we have
our Endorphin Elite twos. 

812
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,880
Give us something a little bit 
more like like Takumi Sanish, 

813
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:12,680
like moderate. 
It's still a lot of foam. 

814
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:14,200
Like that's way more than we 
used to have. 

815
00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:17,600
So I think people need to start 
moving away from that 40mm 

816
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,480
because 40mm isn't special. 
Make it fast. 

817
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,280
Imagine if. 
Get your foam better, get better

818
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:24,840
geometries. 
Like doesn't, yeah. 

819
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,040
Imagine if we skipped Boost. 
Like let's say Adidas came out 

820
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,440
with Light Strike Pro and the 
Takumi Sen became the Audios 

821
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,360
Pro. 
That would have been back when 

822
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,840
the Audios Boost came out. 
And yeah, that would have been 

823
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:39,920
nuts. 
Like people would have lost 

824
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:43,720
their minds and that shoe would 
have been 35 instead of 40. 

825
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:45,960
And no one would have cared 
anything about stack height at 

826
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:47,760
that point because the 
properties were better. 

827
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,280
Yeah, for sure. 
That would People have blown 

828
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,040
people's mind for sure. 
Boost already did that. 

829
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,000
People were like, yeah. 
Boost already did it, that's 

830
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:56,680
why. 
That's why I used that as the 

831
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:58,520
example. 
Yeah, that's great. 

832
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:00,400
All right, pretty similar on 
that. 

833
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,920
All right, buy or sell. 
Not all trainers need to be 

834
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,440
maximal stack. 
Dang, we're just ending on 

835
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,160
boring ones. 
That's that's a buy all. 

836
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:09,800
Right. 
Wait, so do we want to change 

837
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:10,680
it? 
Like how do we want to change 

838
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:15,360
this disagreement arguing? 
People respond to different 

839
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:17,720
stack kinds, people respond to 
different stiffnesses. 

840
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:19,720
There's a sweet spot for 
everyone. 

841
00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:21,320
You can be a Goldilocks, That's 
fine. 

842
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:24,360
You find your shoe that works 
for you. 

843
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,320
It could be 20mm, it could be 
40, it could be 50. 

844
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,360
Yeah, yeah. 
That's that's that's not a great

845
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,840
conflicting 1. 
I would buy 2. 

846
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,440
Like yeah, I think everything 
getting taller isn't necessarily

847
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:42,240
better. 
But I feel like trainers under 5

848
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:46,080
and under 10mm of stack for 
daily training. 

849
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,560
Under Wait, what? 
Because there are shoes under 

850
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,000
10mm of stack. 
Oh, that's going in a different 

851
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,560
direction. 
I wasn't expecting for daily 

852
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:53,600
training. 
Where? 

853
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,520
Who under? 
10 under 10mm of stack. 

854
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,880
Buy or sell for training. 
Daily training is all your mind 

855
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:02,120
0. 
I don't even think 0 stack 

856
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,040
height is actually under 10. 
I think it's like 2. 

857
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,160
It's 14. 
No, well, I mean the HFL. 

858
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,520
You know, OK, no scrambler. 
You know what? 

859
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,640
I just. 
Really scrambler too, some shoes

860
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,640
that are under that. 
So that's fair. 

861
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,840
You are correct. 
Daily Minds, all of your 

862
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,040
training. 
Oh, that's AI mean unless you're

863
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,000
a unique population, that's a 
that's a cell. 

864
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,000
There's evidence that suggests 
that if you are an occasional 

865
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,240
rolling, occasional recreational
runner, that minimalist running 

866
00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:28,120
actually may be it protective 
for you. 

867
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,080
But if you are someone running 
more consistently, that actually

868
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,920
increases your injury risk for 
certain things. 

869
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,960
So I for that reason, depending 
on the person, I'm obviously I'm

870
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,000
going to be a sell on a lot of 
that stuff, even though that, 

871
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,960
that used to be the norm. 
But I think in today's world 

872
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,680
it's, it's a, you know, I don't 
think everything needs to be 

873
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,440
over 40. 
I don't think everything needs 

874
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,480
to be under 10. 
I think we need to have some 

875
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,880
variety because people are 
different, they're going to 

876
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:55,440
respond differently. 
I think it's just a little bit 

877
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,680
challenging right now that 
literally every like almost 

878
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,880
everything we test is in that 
Max stack height, which is why 

879
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:02,840
when I'm walking, I try to get 
out of it. 

880
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,000
And it's funny that my injuries 
have like very drastically 

881
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,280
changed and also, you know, very
well pushing a stroller 70 miles

882
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,400
a week. 
But like I deal with a lot more 

883
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:16,560
hip stuff now than I ever did. 
And like my a lot of my Achilles

884
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,600
stuff isn't the same. 
You know, I'm doing a lot of 

885
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,440
like loading and preventing the 
work there, but to be like hip 

886
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:24,760
hamstring, I'm having a hard 
time getting that under control 

887
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,600
with the even though I load it 
like the stuff that we run in 

888
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:29,960
shifts load up there. 
So yeah, that was a better way 

889
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:31,640
to make that. 
Yeah, I wanted to make it a 

890
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,240
little bit spicy where it was 
like like daily mileage, like 

891
00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:37,680
training like. 
Yeah, I like that you brought up

892
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,360
the recreational thing because 
totally, like that is a nice 

893
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,560
opportunity to strengthen some 
things, work through a full 

894
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,960
range of motion, have very 
natural mechanics. 

895
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,440
I'm not opposed to shoes under 
that stack height, I just for 

896
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,680
myself. 
I could never do daily training 

897
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,400
right like that would wreck me. 
Some people can, but I I just 

898
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,480
think, yeah, that's a that's a 
lot. 

899
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:58,640
It's a big ass for most people 
are. 

900
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,040
Doing that weeks and that would 
just be. 

901
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,360
There is a tie and kudu for 
anybody listening. 

902
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:06,840
Anybody listening, it does that.
Kudos to you. 

903
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:08,800
That is not normal. 
I'm not saying it's bad. 

904
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,760
I'm just saying that's not 
normal in today's population. 

905
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:13,880
You have to use the shoe that 
helps facilitate you 

906
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,560
appropriately and keeps you the 
most healthy. 

907
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,360
And that might be above 40. 
It might be below 10. 

908
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,080
It might be in the middle. 
So, yeah. 

909
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:23,400
All right. 
Let's do something that's going 

910
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,200
to get BJ pissed off. 
So buy or sell. 

911
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,520
Santa Barbara has the best 
tacos. 

912
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,840
That's a funny one. 
Dude, I think we, it's for those

913
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:35,840
who don't know, like we were 
talking in the group chat and 

914
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:39,160
like BJ got really bad that we 
talked about like Houston not or

915
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:43,480
like Texas not having the best 
tacos after he drives down. 

916
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:45,600
Because Nathan and I were at 
combined section meeting, which 

917
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:47,160
is the National Physical Therapy
Conference. 

918
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,200
And so that's the first time we 
actually got to see him in 

919
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,480
person. 
He comes down, takes us out for 

920
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,760
those fajitas, actually, but we 
went out for Mexican food and I 

921
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,520
think he was offended that we 
didn't give Texas more credit 

922
00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:59,880
after he went out and it was 
nice to meet us. 

923
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,160
Oh, is there? 
Is there some discussions here 

924
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,600
that I wasn't part of? 
No. 

925
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:08,440
You guys like Santa Barbara, 
like I don't remember his name 

926
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,000
was like drooling over that Taco
that he had out here. 

927
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:15,720
I remember he was like, that was
like the Taco, like the Santa 

928
00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:18,600
Barbara has good food. 
I I don't know if I would say it

929
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,240
has the best tacos. 
That's a very that's a very big 

930
00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:23,960
thing to say when tacos are in 
very many places. 

931
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:30,920
I imagine Mexico City, there is 
a massive abundance of deeply 

932
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:37,360
cultural and amazing food, would
most likely have better tacos in

933
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,400
Santa Barbara. 
I'm I'm not going to go out 

934
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,520
there and say Santa Barbara has 
the best tacos. 

935
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,640
I just don't there has to be 
better tacos somewhere. 

936
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,240
But for what it's worth, we do 
have some pretty good food out 

937
00:45:47,240 --> 00:45:51,280
here and we do have a lot of 
Mexican food options here from 

938
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:55,280
taquerias to full on like 
culinary experiences and very 

939
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,200
high and chefy kind of Mexican 
food. 

940
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:01,280
So it's got everything from 
like, you know, paying less than

941
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,880
a buck or two for tacos to 
paying a lot more than that. 

942
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:10,280
So the food here is pretty good.
I, I don't think it's the best 

943
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,760
as far as like in the world, 
like the the best place for 

944
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:16,640
tacos. 
I I don't know if I would go 

945
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,440
that far. 
All right, I I can't comment on 

946
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,080
this because I'm not educated. 
And there's also Los Angeles 

947
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,080
zealots out there too in San 
Diego. 

948
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:28,040
Like I'd have to go and hit all 
of the places, like truly like 

949
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,520
go to all of the spots and be 
like, OK, let me sum this all up

950
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:33,480
and be like, let me get you my 
aggregate. 

951
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,960
Maybe we should do that a Dor 
Eats tour. 

952
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,600
Me and Bach just take on LA and 
San Diego and we just eat tacos 

953
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:41,680
the whole time. 
Could be great. 

954
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,280
It could be a great great 
bonding experience. 

955
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:48,600
We shift our online presence to 
food review, but Bach would be 

956
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:50,560
super happy because he actually 
does ask. 

957
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,960
To case on video tacos like. 
For those who don't know, Bach 

958
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,640
has done professional like food 
reviews and he's actually 

959
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,640
obviously phenomenal at it so 
that you know, it's a natural 

960
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:00,920
extension of doctors are 
running. 

961
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,840
Yeah, this is the way we bring 
Bach out here first, just so we 

962
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:09,240
can hang out and. 
Bach is the Santa Barbara one 

963
00:47:09,240 --> 00:47:10,800
in. 
San Diego and we bring it back. 

964
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:12,840
Yeah, we have to have a Dor get 
together. 

965
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,000
We actually get to meet Bach 
because so far he's like hiding 

966
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:16,760
from us. 
But he's also a phenomenal human

967
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:18,760
being and he's very busy and got
a lot going on. 

968
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:22,160
So we will have to figure out 
something, some way to to get 

969
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,320
him out. 
But that might be it, The Dor 

970
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:28,520
Taco West Coast experience. 
We get like a little like group 

971
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:32,880
bus just like that could be so 
fun. 

972
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,200
Alright, so we did warn you this
episode was going to be a hint. 

973
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,600
I thought it was going to be 
more like violent to us, like 

974
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:43,200
talking a terrible. 
Thing Nate and BJ just no, just 

975
00:47:43,240 --> 00:47:46,040
more me and Nate, me Nate and 
Buck talking basketball. 

976
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:48,600
Gosh, it could be during the NBA
playoffs. 

977
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,120
NBA playoffs would be what? 
April, May. 

978
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,560
Since we are obviously losing 
our minds, I'm going to land 

979
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:57,880
this plane. 
I want to thank you for 

980
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,080
listening and hope is always the
stuff is helpful. 

981
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,200
If it's not, it's not education,
at least it's entertaining. 

982
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,000
We're hoping you can find us on 
a bunch of different sites. 

983
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,240
Obviously we have stuff on 
LinkedIn, on Instagram, on, on 

984
00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:12,120
various social media sites. 
You can find this podcast 

985
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:14,600
specifically on Spotify, iTunes,
and many different areas. 

986
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,680
And then the actual video will 
get posted on YouTube at a 

987
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:18,920
different time throughout the 
week. 

988
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,080
As always, we hope this stuff is
helpful to help you find what 

989
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,120
works best for you as an 
individual because everybody's 

990
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:25,520
different. 
We already talked about what 

991
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:26,960
happens. 
Maybe everything doesn't work 

992
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:29,560
for every different person, but 
we always appreciate you coming 

993
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:31,520
along in this journey. 
Feel free to e-mail us or 

994
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,000
comment below in whatever medium
you are. 

995
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:35,960
Let us know what you think about
some of the stuff we talked 

996
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:37,240
about. 
We want to know your opinion 

997
00:48:37,240 --> 00:48:39,680
because you are the most 
valuable person and you are the 

998
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:41,960
reason that we do this. 
So thanks as always following 

999
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:44,440
along and hope whenever you're 
listening to this.