1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,960
We're excited to share this week
the launch of our new Doctors of

2
00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:04,440
Running Page at Running 
Warehouse. 

3
00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,960
Ever want to tackle trails like 
David, Crush Hills like Matt, 

4
00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:10,480
survive the cold like Nathan, or
race like Andrea? 

5
00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:13,040
Now's your chance. 
Head over to Running Warehouse 

6
00:00:13,040 --> 00:00:15,480
to find all of our team's 
favorite apparel, nutrition, and

7
00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:17,040
more. 
Visit the link in our 

8
00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:19,440
description to see the page 
today and make sure to check out

9
00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:21,320
Running Warehouse for all your 
running needs. 

10
00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,840
Hello everyone and welcome, 
welcome, welcome to the Docs of 

11
00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,440
Running podcast where we, a 
group of doctors of physical 

12
00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:38,800
therapy, discuss the art and 
science of running in the stuff 

13
00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,120
that we put on our feet. 
We are here at the round table. 

14
00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,560
We have Doctor Matthew Klein, 
Doctor David Salas, and I'll be 

15
00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:46,880
kind of hosting and 
facilitating. 

16
00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,440
I'm Nathan Brown excited to be 
together with these guys again. 

17
00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:52,280
It's always fun to get together 
and chat. 

18
00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,240
We are doing our monthly mailbag
episode today. 

19
00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:58,680
The questions just continue to 
seem to get a little bit deeper,

20
00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,440
a little bit more intense and 
they are very specific to 

21
00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,480
people. 
So as we always say with these, 

22
00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,120
these are not medical advice, 
these are educational 

23
00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:07,880
discussions about clinical 
scenarios. 

24
00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:12,200
So if you have a medical 
condition or you're having pain 

25
00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:16,680
that requires the help of a 
medical professional or APT, do 

26
00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,080
not take our advice as that 
medical advice. 

27
00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,240
Go see somebody. 
But Matt and David, it's good to

28
00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,640
be with you both. 
I remember when I first shaved 

29
00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:26,320
my head, you both made fun of me
one. 

30
00:01:26,320 --> 00:01:29,360
And then you both started coming
up with people that I look like.

31
00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,400
And I had a friend. 
After I saw them today, they 

32
00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,680
texted me this and they're like,
this is you today, Stanley 

33
00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,160
Tucci. 
Did you guys see it, Stanley 

34
00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,240
Tucci in the The White Knots? 
Yeah, you can't really see. 

35
00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,520
Well, I can see it, yeah. 
But they said I'm really 

36
00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,360
channeling my inner Stanley 
Tucci, so I have my next 

37
00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,120
Halloween costume. 
I think that's so bright. 

38
00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:53,760
There you go. 
But. 

39
00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,240
If you're on, if you're on 
YouTube, you should be able to 

40
00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,400
see a little bit of what's going
on there. 

41
00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,240
But I got my white button up 
today, got my chorus, He's got 

42
00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,880
much fancier watch on. 
But you know, it's like I'm just

43
00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,440
Stanley Tucci. 
I'm pretty sure in the Dor like 

44
00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,280
employment packet says you have 
to be able to take, take and 

45
00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,120
dish out being made fun of. 
So just FYI. 

46
00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:15,120
Think, Yeah. 
I love how he opened up with 

47
00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:16,960
that, where he's like, yeah, 
once I did it, you guys 

48
00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:18,520
immediately made fun of me. 
It's like, great. 

49
00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,560
Yeah, but how long? 
Ago was Wait, how long ago was 

50
00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:26,560
that? 
It's been. 

51
00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:27,640
Yeah. 
How long has it been now? 

52
00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:32,720
I shaved it in August of 23, so 
maybe six months or so. 

53
00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,160
Well, seven months, actually, 
because that's actually when 

54
00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:37,200
Isabella was born. 
Yeah, Seven months. 

55
00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:38,240
That's right. 
OK. 

56
00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:39,440
Seven months. 
Yeah. 

57
00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,160
So it feels normal for sure at 
this point. 

58
00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,520
Yeah, I kind of forgot that that
wasn't your normal for a second,

59
00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,000
at least not for the last seven 
months. 

60
00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,400
Yeah, well, good. 
I I think it's also. 

61
00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:51,880
It looks good. 
Thank you. 

62
00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,440
I also know that's not why 
people listen to the podcast, so

63
00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:59,240
we should probably move forward.
So our we are going to be doing 

64
00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:04,120
a you know mid year roundup of 
best shoes of 2024 so far. 

65
00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,000
But we are a couple months in 
here and I just want to get a 

66
00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,960
take from you all and this is 
our subjective question of the 

67
00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,520
day, what has been a shoe? 
It doesn't need to be new. 

68
00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,120
It can be one from last year's 
model. 

69
00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,760
But what has been your favorite 
daily trainer of the year so 

70
00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:18,720
far? 
A shoe that you've loved just 

71
00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,160
getting miles on and kind of 
using for your bulk mileage? 

72
00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,520
Kind of the if you had to have 
one shoe in your arsenal that 

73
00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,240
just kind of put in all the 
grunt miles, what would it be? 

74
00:03:29,920 --> 00:03:31,840
So what has it been so far for? 
For you both? 

75
00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,320
David, why don't you start? 
Yeah, there's three that 

76
00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,560
immediately come to mind. 
And so traditionally through 

77
00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,200
this, first, I guess you could 
say 1/4 of the year since we're 

78
00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:45,840
approaching April now I the Puma
deviate, Nitro deviate, Oh my 

79
00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:47,880
goodness, I can't ever get Puma 
names right. 

80
00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:53,080
Velocity, velocity. 
There we go, the Puma Velocity 

81
00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:58,040
Nitro 3 and the Saucony Ride 17 
have been two workhorses of 

82
00:03:58,040 --> 00:03:59,960
mine. 
I think I have 100 on both of 

83
00:03:59,960 --> 00:04:05,360
them, but one that recently came
to us is the On Cloud Monster 

84
00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,200
Hyper. 
I just barely got this shoe and 

85
00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,360
I put 25 on it in two days and 
I'm loving it. 

86
00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,520
So I'm hoping you know we can 
get more mileage on it soon. 

87
00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:19,600
Obviously we have a lot of shoes
we got to review and so I may or

88
00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,400
that may or may not happen 
sooner versus later, but really 

89
00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:25,480
liking what I'm doing so far in 
that shoe. 

90
00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,840
Are those three, you know, you 
kind of have those three, Are 

91
00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:31,640
they similar or do they all hit?
No, very different. 

92
00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,120
Yeah, So what is it about each 
that makes you like like that 

93
00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,520
one more than another? 
Yeah, I would say the ride in 

94
00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:44,000
the, I almost said deviate again
and the velocity are more 

95
00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,680
similar in the group of the 
three there, but they're still 

96
00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,400
different. 
Like the Velocity Nitro kind of 

97
00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,680
is like it reminds me a lot of 
like what the Pegasus kind of 

98
00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:59,160
used to feel like or oh that's 
interesting the ASICS Cumulus or

99
00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:04,680
just kind of like that neutral 
high drop trainer, but that 

100
00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,640
Nitro foam just softens it just 
a little bit. 

101
00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:12,040
But it's like a very neutral, 
very basic design that kind of 

102
00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,440
feels timeless. 
It feels like that just running 

103
00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:20,120
shoe, you know, and it's nothing
super exciting, but it it grips 

104
00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,280
the ground well and it, I don't 
know, the transitions are smooth

105
00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:25,280
for me. 
And so it's one of those shoes 

106
00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:27,960
where I could just go log a lot 
of miles on and not really think

107
00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,480
about it. 
And it probably could turn over 

108
00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,040
pretty well if I really pushed 
it. 

109
00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,400
But I mean for daily miles I've 
been really liking that shoe. 

110
00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,680
And the Saucony Ride 17, a 
little bit more balanced. 

111
00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,240
You have a little bit more 
rounding in the heel, a little 

112
00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,880
bit of a earlier kind of toe 
spring, but it still kind of 

113
00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,680
gives you a little bit more of a
flatter kind of natural 

114
00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,160
transition through that toe off 
where it doesn't feel like it's 

115
00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,960
hyper rockard. 
And there's still a little bit 

116
00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,480
of flexibility in the power on. 
Plus midsole can take a beating 

117
00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,840
as well. 
So it's another one of those 

118
00:05:58,840 --> 00:06:02,280
shoes as I've broken it in more.
So the first couple runs it kind

119
00:06:02,280 --> 00:06:06,200
of felt a little bit sloppy, but
once I broke it in it, it's done

120
00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:10,800
really well for me and I I was a
big fan of the previous Saucony 

121
00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,680
ride as well. 
And so this is another shoe that

122
00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:15,440
just kind of continues. 
Yeah. 

123
00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,560
And I liked the Velocity too. 
I remember it didn't make any 

124
00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:23,320
awards for me, but I do remember
liking it and the Cloud Monster 

125
00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,160
Hyper. 
It's like what I've wanted one 

126
00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,680
of these high stack Rockford 
shoes to be where it feels. 

127
00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:33,880
So for those that don't know, 
the Cloud Monster Hyper is a 

128
00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:35,640
continuation on the Cloud 
Monster. 

129
00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,160
But there are a couple of 
differences. 

130
00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,680
And the biggest difference is 
that they're putting that Helion

131
00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,480
HF foam in there, which is a 
super foam, and that's the foam 

132
00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,880
that they use in the Cloud Boom 
E3, I mean, per their website. 

133
00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,440
And that's kind of the main slab
of it on the inside. 

134
00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,360
And then it's surrounded by this
cloud tech, the firmer foam that

135
00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,880
on usually uses. 
And it kind of encases it like 

136
00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,040
around the heel and it comes 
down. 

137
00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:02,640
Do I have it right here? 
I do. 

138
00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,560
Let me just grab it just for 
like visualization, 'cause I 

139
00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:08,440
feel like it's kind of hard to 
say it. 

140
00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:13,480
So that orange is all cloud tech
and there's a lot of it, you 

141
00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,280
know, and it just kind of wraps 
around in this white slab. 

142
00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:21,360
Is that Helion HF? 
And it goes all the way through 

143
00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:25,280
to the front and then it gives 
you kind of like it's in a weird

144
00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,240
way almost like a medial posts 
kind of right like so it just 

145
00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:30,560
gives you a little bit of 
guidance. 

146
00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:34,040
But it has that bounce from the 
PBA based midsole on the inside 

147
00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,600
as well. 
And so it's just a nice rhythmic

148
00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:38,920
ride that actually gives you a 
decent little bounce on the 

149
00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,160
front of it for a high stack 
Rockford shoe. 

150
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,240
So I, I kind of throw this in 
that quote UN quote super 

151
00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:49,600
Trainer category and it's one of
the few super trainers I feel 

152
00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:54,280
like that I can compare to the 
Super Blast that like this could

153
00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,960
very easily be a shoe that I 
pound miles on. 

154
00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,120
But it's still early to tell. 
You know it's hard to say 

155
00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,280
anything on a durability 
standpoint, but for right now 

156
00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,200
that shoe is, is really, really 
nice. 

157
00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,440
But I literally just got this 
thing the other day, but I have 

158
00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:11,680
25 on it already. 
And I I know you said it's a 

159
00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:13,760
kind of continuation of the 
cloud monster. 

160
00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:15,880
It's a different shoe in the 
same family. 

161
00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,080
They're still doing the cloud. 
Monster. 

162
00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,680
I also it kind of the way you 
described it and showed it, 

163
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,400
that's a shoe that I don't have,
but it kind of reminded me of 

164
00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,280
the Specter in some ways where 
it had that casing and then the 

165
00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:33,799
inner core more bouncy like 
softer, softer than the than the

166
00:08:33,799 --> 00:08:35,840
Specter or is it still kind of 
firm or? 

167
00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,240
It's still pretty firm. 
It's still pretty firm. 

168
00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,400
Odd. 
It's an odd shoe in that, like, 

169
00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,280
it feels firm. 
Like it doesn't feel like the 

170
00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:43,960
foam is very compliant at all. 
It's not the. 

171
00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,600
It's not like the Cloud Surfer, 
cause the Cloud Surfer is. 

172
00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:50,600
No, no, not even close. 
Yeah, but it still has a bounce 

173
00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,360
and it still feels cushioned. 
Like you stand in the shoe and 

174
00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,800
you're like, oh, I got foam 
under me, you know, like, so 

175
00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:57,040
it's that weird. 
Kind of. 

176
00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,760
It's like. 
It's a 4040mm heel, right? 

177
00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:05,800
It's 6 millimeter 4834, right, 
6mm, Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

178
00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:06,720
It's a lot of foam. 
Cool. 

179
00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,400
Sweet, So you got three. 
I'll say mine quick because as 

180
00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,120
y'all if you've been following, 
you know that I've been kind of 

181
00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,840
coming back to running since the
ligament tear in my foot. 

182
00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,720
And so I've really been picky 
with what I run and I have not 

183
00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,000
been experimenting much. 
So the two shoes that I've been 

184
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,080
putting the majority of my miles
and since I've been a little bit

185
00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:32,200
more consistent have been the 
Endorphin Speed 4 and the Mach 

186
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,920
6. 
And those are two pretty 

187
00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:36,800
different shoes as well from 
each other. 

188
00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,160
You know, in the Mach 6 you have
a super critical Eva foam, but 

189
00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,760
it's like firmer. 
There's no plate, but it is a 

190
00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,120
little bit stiff, you know, 
there is a decent amount of 

191
00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:49,800
stiffness actually, whereas the,
you know, the Endorphin Speed 4 

192
00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,960
feels much higher, much less 
connected to the ground, a 

193
00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,200
little bit more Rockard and has 
that P backs plate in there. 

194
00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,440
But they've both just been 
really nice at all paces for me,

195
00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,000
which all paces basically means 
just easy paces. 

196
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,600
I've only done a very small 
amount of workouts at this 

197
00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,640
point, 'cause I am trying to 
return to running consistently 

198
00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:10,480
since the tear. 
But those have been good. 

199
00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:14,240
And the big problem for me with 
the mock at first was it was so 

200
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:20,160
tight, like, so the volume was 
so low and it felt unnecessary, 

201
00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,680
like not even just like, oh, 
this will feel great, it'll lock

202
00:10:22,680 --> 00:10:23,840
you in. 
It was like, why? 

203
00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:27,840
Like, why is this so snug? 
It has loosened for me for sure.

204
00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,240
Another component was it was too
cold to wear my thin socks at 

205
00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,040
first when I had the shoe, and 
now I can wear my like, thinnest

206
00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:36,720
summer socks and I can wear them
that. 

207
00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,440
But I tried to put on it got 
cold again around here and we 

208
00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,200
got like 6 more inches of snow 
last week but it. 

209
00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:44,360
Didn't get cold over there, 
yeah. 

210
00:10:44,680 --> 00:10:47,080
You're talking about don't know 
what you're talking about Dang, 

211
00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:51,240
I still have my bubble thing 
Anyway, I I put if you are 

212
00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:52,920
watching YouTube you know what 
we're talking about. 

213
00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:57,520
If you're not, sorry, but the I 
lost my train of thought. 

214
00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,040
Oh yeah, I tried to put those 
socks on my winter socks and I 

215
00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,120
just couldn't. 
I couldn't run in the mock then 

216
00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:04,760
because it was just too low 
volume. 

217
00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:09,080
So I'm they have a wide version.
I have requested it to see if I 

218
00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,480
could test it out and see kind 
of what the differences are. 

219
00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,640
So I I might be able to report 
back, but those have been the 

220
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:15,760
two that I've been consistent 
with. 

221
00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:20,520
I was running in the new cumulus
for a little while, which I 

222
00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,800
thought was nice much, you know 
much more refined than the 

223
00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,840
previous version. 
But I'm not someone who beats up

224
00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:30,800
outsoles and they moved to a 
like a foam, like rubberized 

225
00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,000
foam outsole and it's been 
tearing up on me and I'm like 

226
00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,320
this kind of ruins the idea of a
like a workhorse trainer. 

227
00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,320
Meanwhile the Mach 6 went from a
like a rubber raised Eva outsole

228
00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:45,760
to you have the actual rubber. 
So it's it's almost like once I 

229
00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:50,600
got the Mach 6, I just like 
pushed the cumulus to the side 

230
00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,360
because I just knew it wasn't 
going to, it wasn't going to 

231
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,640
last as long for me and it was 
just more comfortable on the 

232
00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:58,400
bottom of my foot for the Mach 
right now. 

233
00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,800
So those are the two that I'm 
running in and you know, again 

234
00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,280
I'm running easy paces. 
Both of those, despite them 

235
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,280
being geared towards some like 
workout stuff, have been good 

236
00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:11,440
for easy paces, which is nice. 
Some of those new Hoka outsoles 

237
00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,800
are pretty nice, like same on 
this yellow X1. 

238
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,080
I see it behind you, Matt. 
How does your heel look? 

239
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,440
I'm just curious. 
Get the left. 

240
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:23,040
One very, very curious. 
Oh, it's. 

241
00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:24,800
Oh, it's gone. 
All right. 

242
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:26,640
It's gone. 
But that's But that's a that's a

243
00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,960
glue issue, not a not a rubber 
wearing. 

244
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,440
Out the rubbers there that. 
Was just me because the where 

245
00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,640
where they placed it, I knew I 
land and like scuff right there.

246
00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:37,280
I'm like I'm going to rip this 
off and I don't. 

247
00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:39,320
I can't say it's actually a 
durability issue because I think

248
00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,160
most people with normal 
mechanics that aren't me would 

249
00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,480
be totally fine to be honest. 
But that's just me. 

250
00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,600
So yeah, because that's one of 
the few super shoe outsoles I 

251
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,960
feel like can take a beating. 
Yeah, definitely. 

252
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,720
Yeah, Matt, what about you? 
You know I've got some we just 

253
00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:57,760
we do in favorites overall or 
just stuff that we're running in

254
00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,120
right now. 
Like Daily Trainer? 

255
00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,080
Daily trainer OK, so first one I
got to give a shout out to the 

256
00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,360
new Topo Ultrafly 5 has actually
quickly become a favorite. 

257
00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,840
The previous ultra flies have 
just been like slightly too far 

258
00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,840
more like I I can appreciate 
this and it was a shoe that I 

259
00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,600
actually suggested to a lot of 
people as a walking shoe that 

260
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:17,640
need like a wide toe box and 
sensibility. 

261
00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,080
This is the first one of these 
that I've actually really 

262
00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,680
enjoyed running in. 
They soften the sole just enough

263
00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,000
to make it really comfortable. 
It is very stable, Still one of 

264
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,000
the rare shoes that has a medial
post and a really nice heel 

265
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,160
clip, really nice toe box, 
really good overall. 

266
00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,760
So I'm really enjoying mileage 
long runs and it. 

267
00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,520
My only issue is I am just 
ripping through the outsole a 

268
00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,200
little bit more than normal, 
which I kind of I might be 

269
00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:41,560
wrong. 
I suspect just because when you 

270
00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:45,040
soften things especially soles 
and out soles they tend to start

271
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,720
at where a little bit quicker, 
but I haven't really know. 

272
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,080
It hasn't changed the feel but 
I'm really enjoying this shoe. 

273
00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,280
It's very very comfortable. 
The combination at this topo is 

274
00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,400
just doing great. 
They're doing an awesome job 

275
00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,920
moving their their product 
forwards, like Nathan, the Speed

276
00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:01,800
4 from Sock and he's still on my
feet. 

277
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:03,760
I am really, really, really 
enjoying that shoe. 

278
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,840
I've got well over 100 miles on 
my pair and it's just something 

279
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,440
that I can consistently trust, 
especially for long runs. 

280
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:10,720
And it's been really, really 
fun. 

281
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,720
The Cloud Monster hyper. 
I'm kind of with David. 

282
00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,440
I've got about 20 miles on my 
pair. 

283
00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:20,040
I appreciate it, but I I'm still
putting it on this list because 

284
00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,560
I'm doing a ton of miles in it, 
but I feel like we haven't 

285
00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,880
figured each other out. 
Like my first run it was like 

286
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,720
oddly stiff. 
Feels like it fits almost 1/2 

287
00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,480
slice long and now I'm kind of, 
I got it, did 13 miles on it 

288
00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:32,080
this morning a long run with 
Isabella. 

289
00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,120
And yeah, like David said, what 
I do appreciate about it is the 

290
00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,840
way it's set up, it's definitely
stable, neutral like it it's 

291
00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:44,320
stiff to the way the the Helion 
and the Helion HF is set up. 

292
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,280
It actually makes it feel kind 
of very guided and very 

293
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:48,720
centered, which is really, 
really nice. 

294
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:50,640
It's just like, I'm very 
surprised. 

295
00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,000
If you told me there was a plate
in this, I would totally believe

296
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:54,000
you because it's. 
Right. 

297
00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,880
Yeah, there's no speed board. 
Yeah, there's no speed board, 

298
00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:01,240
but it's very stiff and this 
being just a tiny bit long makes

299
00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,600
it just a little more stiffer 
for me. 

300
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,160
But it's actually warmed up 
really nice as a training shoe. 

301
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,200
I did a workout and it just 
doesn't feel like I can access 

302
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,600
some of the faster paces. 
But as kind of that super 

303
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,880
trainer, I'm really enjoying it.
It does kind of remind me of the

304
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:19,640
the Super blast, but Super Blast
still is getting the the nod 

305
00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,680
over this one at the moment. 
But I'll get more miles and see.

306
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,520
But I did enjoy it today. 
So those are kind of my my big 

307
00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,360
three just at the moment that 
I'm oddly enjoying or having 

308
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,800
like a kind of weird standoffish
running moment. 

309
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,840
I'll describe that. 
Yes, cool. 

310
00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:36,480
Well, let's hear from you all as
well. 

311
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,840
So if you are listening to this 
on YouTube, you can comment 

312
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,640
below with kind of your favorite
training shoe right now. 

313
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:43,960
Again, it doesn't have to be 
new. 

314
00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:49,000
I'm a big fan of having deals 
from year old models that are on

315
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:49,720
sale now. 
So. 

316
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:55,200
So drop drop what you got below.
On that note, we are again 

317
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,600
having a giveaway thanks to 
Running Warehouse. 

318
00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,280
So if you do comment on the 
YouTube video for this podcast 

319
00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,720
which come up which release on 
Sundays, you will be entered to 

320
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,240
win a $100.00 gift card from 
Warning Warehouse. 

321
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,000
So excited to be able to give 
another one of those away. 

322
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,120
We're loving that partnership 
and it's been a fun way to 

323
00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,480
connect with you all and hear 
your responses to this. 

324
00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:18,360
I know that that's our 
subjective for the day, but 

325
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,760
because we're doing our mailbag,
we always call out for more 

326
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,920
mailbag type questions. 
We have so much to potentially 

327
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,120
cover. 
As you may have heard, my solo 

328
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:32,320
episode a couple weeks ago was 
on, we were kind of started 

329
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:36,360
these kind of research reviews 
or a topic based on research 

330
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,160
articles that are all talking 
about the same realm. 

331
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,800
Y'all gave a ton of things that 
you want to hear from the 

332
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,120
literature about. 
So we are also pulling from 

333
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,080
those comments from that to kind
of potentially fill out our 

334
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,960
mailbag or have some more 
research related questions that 

335
00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,120
we that we dive into the 
literature with the research 

336
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,640
that has come out on the topic. 
But let's move into our mailbag 

337
00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,040
for the week. 
We have a lot of questions. 

338
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,760
We'll see what we get through. 
There's a couple questions that 

339
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,319
have both bet that are both 
about stress fractures and 

340
00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:08,800
stress reactions which are 
related to our bones and our 

341
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:10,839
bones, we call them bone stress 
injuries. 

342
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,000
So it's not like you fell from 
20 feet and then you fractured 

343
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:15,599
your bone. 
It's repetitive stress on a 

344
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:16,920
bone. 
Over time that leads to 

345
00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:20,359
breakdown of either the casein 
on the outside of the bone or 

346
00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,040
into the cortex of the bone 
itself. 

347
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,079
So here's our first question 
from a long I'm follower of ours

348
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:30,720
from Max, and this is some 
details that he shared with us. 

349
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,760
So he's been struggling on and 
off with some frustrating nagles

350
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:37,920
and injuries since he completed 
the 2023 New York City Marathon.

351
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,760
Congrats I've heard that's a 
super fundraise to run and was 

352
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,880
feeling amazing until all of a 
sudden this past Monday had an 

353
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,840
intense heel pain during a run 
and appears to be a stress 

354
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,240
fracture. 
Upon initial analysis by a 

355
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,400
podiatrist. 
I'm beyond bummed but eager to 

356
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,920
find out the best way to rest, 
recover and do whatever it takes

357
00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,240
to injury proof myself from this
moving forward. 

358
00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:05,560
So he's interested on our 
guidance and thanks us for 

359
00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:07,600
considering taking the time to 
talk about it. 

360
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:12,120
So what I see this question as 
is kind of multifaceted. 

361
00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,280
What does it mean to recover 
from a bone stress injury and 

362
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:17,520
then how do you prevent this 
stuff from coming back. 

363
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,160
So Matt, do you want to open us 
up and and talking about either 

364
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,680
one of those two realms? 
Yeah, although this is something

365
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:26,880
that Nathan could definitely 
speak to, but I can also speak 

366
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:28,960
to it. 
We had a great conversation with

367
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,800
Rich Willie, if you haven't 
heard that episode, I'd really 

368
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,800
encourage you because Rich is 
one of like the premier kind of 

369
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,240
PT researchers on bone stress 
stuff. 

370
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,400
So I really encouraged you that.
But here's the thing about bone 

371
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,360
stress injuries is that you 
can't rush them. 

372
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,000
It's one of the few things like,
you know, we talked about like 

373
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,400
tendons and stuff like, oh, you 
need, they still need load, 

374
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:49,640
right? 
You need to push them like it. 

375
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,480
Be careful. 
That stuff like muscle, oh, you 

376
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:56,080
got to keep it working. 
It's like Bone has barely strict

377
00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,320
timeline and sometimes that can 
be even longer. 

378
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,360
You can't push those things, 
they take a long time to 

379
00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:03,240
remodel. 
Do you need to load them? 

380
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,280
Eventually yes, but you need to 
be careful. 

381
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,640
So jumping in early is the worst
thing you can do. 

382
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,440
So a lot of the stuff when 
coming back normally we tell 

383
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,080
you, oh, don't worry about, you 
know, pain. 

384
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,320
You know, it's relative. 
That's one of the times where 

385
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,800
pain is actually something you 
really want to pay attention to.

386
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:22,000
And a good slow return to run 
program that includes like a 

387
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,000
walk run is actually really 
helpful for exposing your body 

388
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,320
to this after you've waited the 
six to eight weeks at least. 

389
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,800
And Nathan, David, correct me if
I'm wrong in terms of getting I 

390
00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,160
see different tidelines 
depending on who you ask but 6 

391
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,200
to 8 weeks has been kind of 
something I've gone by of hey, 

392
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,000
not weight, non weight bearing 
activities like letting the 

393
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,280
tissue heal, making sure you're 
on top of because nutrition is 

394
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,400
really important as I'm not 
pointing fingers anything Rich, 

395
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,880
one of the things that he has 
comments like if you're in a 

396
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,520
carbohydrate deficit you're 
already immediately leaching 

397
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,520
stuff from your bones. 
So good carbohydrate, good 

398
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,760
protein, good fat, good balanced
diet, good appropriate 

399
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:02,360
micronutrients, like you know, 
in terms of calcium, vitamin D 

400
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,520
all really important to taking a
well-rounded approach. 

401
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:07,960
To rehabbing bone stress 
injuries. 

402
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,080
But Max, to answer your 
question, you have to be 

403
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:11,800
patient. 
You have to be willing to take 

404
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,440
that time to let the bone 
remodel, doing some other 

405
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:18,600
activities to let that heal, and
then slowly walk your run your 

406
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,840
way back. 
Because like I said, bone takes 

407
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:22,560
time. 
It might be really helpful to 

408
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,920
work with a physical therapist, 
a runner who who is as 

409
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,120
experienced with this. 
But also another good thing 

410
00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:30,160
would be to work with a 
dietitian to try to optimize 

411
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,320
this, because bones just take 
time, right? 

412
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,360
There's a lot going on in your 
bones. 

413
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:37,480
There's not only different kinds
of red and white blood cells, so

414
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,000
a lot of your blood is created 
in there, but it's also the 

415
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,000
cortex and how things are set up
just takes a while. 

416
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:48,440
So you got to respect tissue 
healing timelines and ease your 

417
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,600
way back in. 
David, what do you have to add? 

418
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,680
Yeah, I think Matt hit it pretty
well here. 

419
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,240
But one thing I always tell 
people, for better or worse, 

420
00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,640
bone is still a living tissue. 
It's constantly shaving bone 

421
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,520
away. 
It's constantly adding new bone.

422
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,720
That's something that's 
happening regardless of whether 

423
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,880
or not there's a fracture there.
However, when there if there 

424
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,600
truly is a fracture in the bone,
one of the worst things you can 

425
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,800
do is go put a whole bunch of 
weight through it. 

426
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,320
Like it's just it doesn't 
respond well to that. 

427
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,400
Like you said, you need to have 
some patience. 

428
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,320
That's there's a reason why they
put you in a boot and sometimes 

429
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,960
even crutches and they say as 
best you can, don't put too much

430
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,000
pressure through there. 
But on the other side of that 

431
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,920
question, what can I do in the 
meantime? 

432
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,880
You can do as much non weight 
bearing strengthening as you 

433
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,200
possibly can. 
I mean you can do all kinds of 

434
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,200
lower leg banded exercises, 
sideline hip raises, banded 

435
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,040
clams, whatever you know you 
can. 

436
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,000
You can still get quite a bit of
work in. 

437
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,520
And then that also is a great 
opportunity to work on a lot of 

438
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,840
the postural musculature too in 
the upper quarter as well 

439
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:51,920
because running isn't just lower
quarter. 

440
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,280
I know runners don't like to 
hear that, but you need to have 

441
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,560
a stable core and stable 
shoulders too. 

442
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,400
If you can't stabilize here, 
then you're going to start doing

443
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,000
things like this. 
So it's a good opportunity to 

444
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,760
slow down, kind of look at where
your impairments are and work on

445
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,040
them and just be patient over 
those 6 to 8 weeks. 

446
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,120
That's usually the same 
timelines we function on. 

447
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,480
If there truly is a fracture. 
Thankfully we have X-ray on site

448
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:21,040
where I work and we can take a 
quick look. 

449
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,320
See. 
You know, All right, so it's 

450
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:24,880
fractured. 
Let's give you this amount of 

451
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:26,440
time. 
We'll check back then. 

452
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:27,880
OK. 
It looks pretty stable. 

453
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,760
Let's get you waning out of the 
boot and we'll kind of work 

454
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,640
towards doing things and it 
could be even longer. 

455
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,960
So we're even doing like body 
weight loaded planner flexor 

456
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,040
exercises. 
You know, like calf raises can 

457
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,600
take a minute to get back to 
and. 

458
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,640
By a minute, you mean like? 
Weeks. 

459
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,560
Yeah, yeah. 
But much, much. 

460
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,080
Longer than a minute, the 
metaphorical minute the. 

461
00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:53,560
Metaphorical minute, yeah. 
Yeah, So it it can take a while 

462
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,720
and it can be a long process and
it can be frustrating, right? 

463
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:58,680
Like you want to get back to 
running sometimes. 

464
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:03,000
The bone injuries, in a way 
they're easy because they're 

465
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,680
simplistic in the way that it's 
like, OK, wait, it'll heal. 

466
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,920
You'll get better, but they're 
almost harder in the fact that 

467
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,080
there's so much patience that 
has to get exercised during that

468
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,640
time period where like with 
tenderness injuries, it's like, 

469
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,200
OK, well let's see what that 
load tolerance is for the 

470
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:19,680
tendon. 
Let's load it up and let's get 

471
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,520
you back, right? 
Eccentric plyometric like like 

472
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,400
that. 
Progression can be a little bit 

473
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,080
quicker sometimes, whereas bone 
you can't rush it, you just 

474
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,120
can't. 
Not even the jumping. 

475
00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:31,800
You have to be careful. 
Exactly. 

476
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,200
Just posted a study they did 
where it was like actually 

477
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,760
landing softer increases stress 
into the bone. 

478
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,440
Totally so interesting because 
you have more shock absorption 

479
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,240
from the muscle. 
And that's another, yeah, whoa, 

480
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,320
yeah, that's another aspect of 
bone loading is that tensile 

481
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,240
force that your muscles put on 
it where it's pulling on it, 

482
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,600
right. 
So it bone is just such a 

483
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,760
dynamic structure, even though 
it's static like in a weird way 

484
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,440
like the structure itself is 
there. 

485
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,760
It's not doing too much, but 
there's so much around it that 

486
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,840
makes it a dynamic structure. 
I think David hit that on the 

487
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:11,000
head with like, I think it's an 
opportunity like often times in 

488
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,680
running we don't really want to 
stop and address all the little 

489
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:14,840
things. 
Like now I just want to get my 

490
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,240
miles in. 
This is a really good 

491
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,720
opportunity to look and go you 
know what I I for my health and 

492
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,760
for my future running I need to 
stop and you need to start 

493
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:28,440
really investing in what things 
make me better like Start Stop 

494
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,760
thinking about the right now or 
even the next year going what 

495
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,960
race am I do going what is this 
going to look like 20-30 years 

496
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,000
from now. 
Like what can I do to keep and 

497
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,760
just it's a learning opportunity
and Nathan, you can speak to 

498
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,920
this you know far, far better 
than me given that you've just 

499
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:43,760
you experienced 1 not too long 
ago. 

500
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,080
And David, also you had your 
your share of stress related to 

501
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,480
injuries as well. 
So you two know even I mean I've

502
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,360
had one a long time ago but 
that's 'cause I was an idiot 

503
00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:53,880
running 150 miles a week. 
So that's that's my fault. 

504
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,280
Yeah, I think y'all have said 
such great. 

505
00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:00,920
Just had a lot of good things to
say here. 

506
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,360
I think if we zoom out a little 
bit further to, you know, every 

507
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:07,000
bone stress injury is a little 
bit different. 

508
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,680
There are some regions of the 
body which are considered low 

509
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,600
risk bone stress injuries. 
There are ones that are high 

510
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,000
risk bone stress injuries and it
depends on the what type of 

511
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,200
service you're on. 
So the ones that handle 

512
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,840
compressive forces and the 
tensile loading from the muscles

513
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,440
themselves like the distal 
tibia, those are like the lower 

514
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,120
risk ones, the 2nd and 3rd 
metatarsal, those are lower 

515
00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:29,880
risk. 
And then some of these other 

516
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,600
ones that are happening because 
of the like the tension force 

517
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,360
from the bending of the bone, 
those are really high risk. 

518
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,880
And if you have and that's like 
the the femur, like the anterior

519
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,320
surface of the femur would be an
example for that in the proximal

520
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,560
tibia or like proximal meaning 
like closer to the knee like 

521
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,040
those ones that have a are in 
those higher risk zones are 

522
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,120
probably going to have a longer 
recover period than those who 

523
00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:53,640
are in the lower that are in the
lower risk zones. 

524
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:58,720
So I I think just another thing 
is like get your friends who 

525
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,960
have walked through this and get
their experience, but also 

526
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,200
understand that your journey 
might be a little bit different.

527
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,360
It might be a little bit more 
expediated or it might be 

528
00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:08,840
slower. 
And as you all referenced, when 

529
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,640
we think about tendons and that 
kind of recovery, it's awesome 

530
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:13,960
because there's a lot you can 
do. 

531
00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:16,440
There's a lot you can do for the
structure that needs to be 

532
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,080
healing itself and it's like, 
oh, my Achilles tendon is has a 

533
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,040
tendinopathy. 
I'm going to do a loading 

534
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:23,800
program to my Achilles. 
This is amazing. 

535
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,880
I can do stuff that makes me 
feel like I'm progressing 

536
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,040
towards healing. 
This specific structure, and as 

537
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,120
you all referenced, when it 
comes to bone, the acceptable 

538
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:33,960
amount of pain with exercise is 
0 out of 10. 

539
00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:37,560
If it is more than a 0 out of 
10, you're not allowing the bone

540
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,280
to heal. 
That's and. 

541
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,200
This isn't just us saying this, 
by the way. 

542
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,760
This is like evidence based 
clinical practice guidelines, 

543
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,600
like how you're supposed to 
progress this, which I know 

544
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,280
because of Nathan shared them 
with me by the way. 

545
00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:49,760
Yeah. 
So I think it's and that's 

546
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:51,960
that's really hard. 
And I went through something 

547
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,320
similar this last year with my 
ligament where it's like you 

548
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:55,840
can't load the ligament to heal 
it. 

549
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,640
I had to just offload it for 
basically honestly basically 

550
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,400
like 6 months and I'm still not 
out of the weeds like this week 

551
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:02,960
I've been upping my mileage a 
little bit. 

552
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,520
My foot's starting to like speak
to me again. 

553
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,000
So this week I'm jumping on the 
elliptic go and I'm going to 

554
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,760
have kind of a down week of like
loading just to like let things 

555
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,320
resettle. 
But it can be really 

556
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,920
frustrating. 
But I think understanding and 

557
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,200
this is where why it's working 
with somebody who understands 

558
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,800
bone stress, injuries and the 
sport that you're in is super 

559
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,240
important. 
Let them help guide you because 

560
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,280
it's going to be hard to trust 
yourself at times because it's 

561
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,160
going to feel like it's never 
going to get better. 

562
00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:30,560
But you got to have somebody 
else who can kind of speak the 

563
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,360
truth about the healing time 
frame and what's going to what's

564
00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:35,480
going to come through. 
So that's one of those things 

565
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,840
that I would, I would kind of 
add on to everything they all 

566
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,800
have said. 
But otherwise I think you hit it

567
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,920
really well. 
And I I was going to hit the 

568
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,760
same thing that David said where
it's like if you have a bone 

569
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,240
stress injury and it means you 
can have zero out of 10 pain and

570
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,200
then you take that to be like 
I'm going to do nothing. 

571
00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:56,280
That's going to make every other
bone in your body more 

572
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,480
susceptible to a future bone 
stress injury. 

573
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,200
So do all of the single leg 
loading that you want as well on

574
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,960
that uninvolved limb. 
Yes you will probably have some 

575
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,240
more asymmetry between your 
sides, but do as much non weight

576
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,000
bearing strengthening as you can
on that involved side. 

577
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,200
There's lots of ways is to not I
I would just encourage you not 

578
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,320
to neglect the other parts of 
your body that aren't injured. 

579
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,160
That would be like my biggest 
thing for you long term is so 

580
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,840
that when you do come back, 
you're not starting from Ground 

581
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,240
Zero everywhere. 
It's just that one area that 

582
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,600
hasn't been able to be loaded in
that specific way. 

583
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:33,160
I do also think that the best 
way to help maintain some sort 

584
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,680
of cardiovascular fitness is 
probably going to be deep water 

585
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,640
running, which means your foot 
isn't touching the ground in the

586
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:43,160
deep water, but and there's like
we said, pain tolerance is zero.

587
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,360
There might be a period where 
you can't even do that be just 

588
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,640
because of the muscle 
contractions, repetitive motion 

589
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,640
or whatever, and it sucks, but 
that'll be part of the part of 

590
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,800
the journey. 
But I think that would be one of

591
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,400
my recommendations to try out 
some deep water stuff and get 

592
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,120
get friendly with the pool. 
Another thing that might be 

593
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,160
helpful, there's some, I just 
was looking at this the other 

594
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,240
day because this is an interest 
of mine. 

595
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,080
There's stuff called blood flow 
restriction training, which 

596
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,280
please do this with a 
professional, don't do the stuff

597
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:10,840
for you, grab a strap and that 
stuff. 

598
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,880
There's I've seen so many nerve 
issue problems related to that. 

599
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,240
So if you have access to 
somebody who does blood flow 

600
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,480
restriction training, that can 
be a great way to maintain 

601
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,480
muscle mass even with and 
there's improving evidence on 

602
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,560
using that with bone stress 
injuries to maintain muscular 

603
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,440
strength and and size and stuff 
like that. 

604
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,960
But what's really cool by the 
way, Nathan mentioned like go to

605
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,840
town on the uninvolved limb. 
You still get benefit on the 

606
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:35,520
involved limb without doing 
anything on. 

607
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,440
It's about a like approximately 
10% benefit for all you do on 

608
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,280
the other side. 
So why not stay moving, but just

609
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:43,920
do it in a way that allows you 
to heal? 

610
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,080
It doesn't mean just sit on your
couch and don't do anything. 

611
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,520
It means you just it's part of 
working on being adaptable and 

612
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,560
it's really hard and runners are
bad at it, but it's something 

613
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,120
that's a good skill to work on. 
Great. 

614
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,560
Well we have one more question 
about stress fractures and it's 

615
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,600
a very different situation 
because this one is a parent 

616
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,680
reaching out about their kid who
is 15 and so he's a son who's 

617
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,680
15, loves to run distance, runs 
across country and track and he 

618
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,720
has his times here. 
The kids pretty fast too running

619
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:17,720
sub 16 for the 5K which is super
fun sophomore. 

620
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,880
So again a a younger individual.
Really fast. 

621
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:22,880
Yeah, he's cruising. 
I saw that earlier. 

622
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:28,160
So and again I I think that the 
world where where we will take 

623
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,320
this conversation is general 
conversation about youth 

624
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,240
athletes and bone stress 
injuries. 

625
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,800
And not specific here, but this 
person came out and has multiple

626
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,880
bone stress injuries, has a 
stress looks like a a stress 

627
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:46,560
fracture of the distal tibia on 
the left, but also a couple 

628
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,800
stress related injuries on both 
feet down in the ankles and 

629
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:52,800
foot. 
So multiple bone stress 

630
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,840
injuries. 
The first thing I'm going to say

631
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,880
is that I think we had a 
conversation about this as well 

632
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,680
with Andrea on the podcast where
we talked about youth athletics 

633
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,920
and so we should probably have 
our episodes memorized but 

634
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:10,560
believe it or not, we don't. 
But in that conversation we 

635
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,320
talked about the difference in 
types of injuries between youth 

636
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,040
athletes and masters athletes 
and how they change as we get 

637
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,520
older. 
When we are young, the most 

638
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,200
common type of running related 
injury are bone related. 

639
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:24,720
They are the most susceptible 
thing. 

640
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,960
So something like this is not 
surprising. 

641
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,640
When I have a one of the high 
school kids who I'm working 

642
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,440
with, if they come in, I am very
high on my radar for screening 

643
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,000
for bone stress injuries. 
If they're early in their pain, 

644
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,960
I'm not putting fear in their 
minds about it, but it's in my 

645
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,000
mind and I'm considering how do 
we manage this as a younger 

646
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:43,880
athlete. 
However, when I have somebody 

647
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,560
who's like 50 or 60 come in who 
I'm working with, my stuff goes 

648
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,960
to my mind, goes to what's going
on, maybe with the tendons and 

649
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,760
the soft tissue related injuries
because that's a pretty clear 

650
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,600
distinction in the literature. 
Kids and younger skeletally 

651
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,480
immature people are going to be 
getting more bone related 

652
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,960
injuries, whereas those who are 
older are going to get soft 

653
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,160
tissue stuff. 
So that was kind of the first 

654
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,320
distinction that came out is 
this isn't surprising. 

655
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,360
I'm really sorry that he's 
walking through this. 

656
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,520
It's going to be a little bit of
a journey, but also he's 15, 

657
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,920
going to heal super fast and get
things figured out. 

658
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,200
Must be nice. 
What other to feel fast as a 15 

659
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:20,280
year old? 
Yeah. 

660
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:22,360
Yeah. 
It's God. 

661
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:23,880
It's God, right? 
We're in the 30s. 

662
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:25,480
It's God. 
Yeah, it's fine. 

663
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,040
So what else do you? 
I have a couple other things 

664
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,240
that I thought about with this 
question, but what sort of 

665
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,240
thoughts and considerations do 
you have for youth athletics and

666
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,240
bone stress injuries? 
Matt, go ahead. 

667
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,520
David, go first 'cause you 
actually have more experience 

668
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:39,920
than I do with this, so go for 
it. 

669
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:41,760
Oh, no, I I just think two 
things. 

670
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,600
So you hit it right on the nail.
I feel like when you're young, a

671
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,240
lot of bone injuries happen. 
There's a lot of changes, right?

672
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,120
You're growing, there's puberty,
there's a lot of hormonal 

673
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,160
differences. 
The bones are literally 

674
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,040
lengthening underneath you, 
right? 

675
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,880
Like we're having a lot of 
osteoblastic activity, just 

676
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,840
meaning that there's it's 
creating bone, right? 

677
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,120
And the body isn't skeletally 
mature yet. 

678
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:08,320
So that that's one consideration
off the bat the the other 

679
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,880
consideration that ties into 
this when you go into high 

680
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,880
school athletics and this 
person's a sophomore right. 

681
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,520
They're probably up in their 
mileage and they're probably 

682
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,280
doing more than they've ever 
done. 

683
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,040
That's this is me speaking out 
loud. 

684
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,120
I I don't know what their 
training looks like. 

685
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:26,880
I'm not blaming the coach or 
anything. 

686
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,960
But just generally speaking, 
usually if you're running sub 16

687
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,680
as a freshman like or sophomore 
like chances are you're running 

688
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,760
with the varsity team unless 
you're on like a absolutely 

689
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:42,840
stacked team and like you're 
you're probably running a 

690
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,720
considerably large amount more 
than you ever have prior to 

691
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:48,600
that. 
And so I think one thing that I 

692
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,200
think with youth athletics is 
just being really careful about 

693
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:55,400
overtraining and and not even 
overtraining per SE. 

694
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,320
Maybe it's not true overtraining
but overreaching where it's like

695
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,400
you're you're just going a 
little bit beyond your means. 

696
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,480
And then if you do that and then
you kind of come back and then 

697
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,880
you hit a baseline and then you 
kind of come back up and you 

698
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,480
kind of like scale that line up,
there's nothing really wrong 

699
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,600
with that. 
But if it's like this chronic 

700
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,920
overreaching where it becomes 
overtraining, I think that's a 

701
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,760
slippery slope that in youth 
athletics can really go the 

702
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,760
wrong way fast. 
And especially with youth 

703
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,080
athletics, there's also, like I 
said, the hormonal changes, but 

704
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:28,360
that also happens 
psychologically. 

705
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,320
I feel like kids are so 
motivated to be good, right? 

706
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,360
Like I I just, they want to be 
as good as they possibly can. 

707
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:36,800
And they might have college on 
their minds. 

708
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,280
They might be like if I can run 
this fast, I can get a 

709
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:40,920
scholarship and go to college, 
right. 

710
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,400
And so there's additional 
pressures on there to kind of 

711
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:48,800
set aside thoughts about pain or
what you're feeling in your 

712
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,800
body. 
And I I think where I'm going 

713
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,520
with this is to just be careful 
with the overreaching with the 

714
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,160
overtraining. 
And just so like listen to your 

715
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,880
body. 
If it's telling you to kind of 

716
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,640
take a break and chill out a 
little bit, I would voice that, 

717
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,920
you know, I you're growing. 
I mean I can't tell you how many

718
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,920
times I did a long run in high 
school and I was asleep on the 

719
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,880
couch for the next three hours, 
you know, where it's like and 

720
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,120
that's a big thing to sleep and 
that that that kind of 

721
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,520
transitions into my second point
there that my other 

722
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:23,240
consideration is when I hear 
about things regardless of age 

723
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:29,000
on on both sides of the body, 
different body parts and or I 

724
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,640
mean in this case it's both feet
and one ankle, right, or one 

725
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:36,600
tibia, that kind of raises some 
systemic flags for me. 

726
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,000
That's not just the running at 
that point. 

727
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,320
I don't think, I I feel like 
you, Matt talked about this 

728
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,680
earlier but like making sure 
that you eat enough because bone

729
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,400
health really pulls a lot from 
your vitamin intake from the 

730
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,760
amount of food you're in taking.
Like it's like I said, it's a 

731
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,640
living tissue. 
You know it it's constantly 

732
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,120
making more and shaving some 
away. 

733
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,040
So you want to make sure that 
that system is doing well. 

734
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,960
And if that system is kind of 
constantly in a state where it's

735
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,920
kind of overreaching you're 
you're asking for a a reaction 

736
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,520
or a fracture. 
And I I feel a little bit harsh 

737
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,040
saying that, but this is coming 
from someone that's had multiple

738
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,200
down there, you know. 
And so I think taking a step 

739
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,480
back and kind of looking and 
like OK, like I said, another 

740
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,400
opportunity right, where what 
can I do to prevent this in the 

741
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:23,640
future? 
I have the fracture. 

742
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,000
I can't do anything about it 
right now. 

743
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:29,320
All I got to do is just let it 
heal, work on what I can work on

744
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,320
and then scale up from there. 
And truth be told, in the long 

745
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,760
run, 6 to 8 weeks isn't that 
long in the span of your life. 

746
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,240
Yes, very. 
Short so it it feels like a long

747
00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:43,200
time in the moment, and it can 
feel a heck of a lot longer if 

748
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,440
you rush it and you re hurt 
yourself so. 

749
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,840
It feels and it feels long 
because sometimes it's like a 

750
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,800
season is gone, like in that can
be a season of life. 

751
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,960
It's like I lost a year of track
or I lost a year that and so it 

752
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,680
feels so big. 
It feels so big. 

753
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,680
But I think taking care of those
little things, because when I 

754
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,720
hear about it in multiple, two 
different sides, technically two

755
00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:10,760
different body parts between the
to be on the foot there, like I 

756
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,560
that, like I said, it just 
raises systemic flags to me. 

757
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,680
And since, like get your sleep, 
eat, take care of yourself. 

758
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,600
I don't know what this person's 
pressures are, whether it's 

759
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,720
grades or training or how bad 
they, quote, UN quote, want 

760
00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:26,360
something like I I don't know 
where they are in that place. 

761
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,000
But I think just doing the 
little things to take care of 

762
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:34,400
yourself might even be bigger 
than any kind of physical load 

763
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,760
or training in, you know, as far
as the next two years of your 

764
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:42,480
high school career go, Yeah. 
If I could revert back for a 

765
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,160
second to the previous question 
and it applies here too, but 

766
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,160
this I meant to say this in 
terms of the opportunities and 

767
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:50,880
kind of what to do to prevent in
the future. 

768
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,040
I'm going to give another call 
back to that Rich Willie episode

769
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:55,720
where we talked about bone 
stress injuries. 

770
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,880
He talked a lot about his 
research with ultra runners and 

771
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,800
he gave some parameters for how 
much of two types of training 

772
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,840
you should do for bone health. 
One of them is very heavy 

773
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:11,520
lifting, like not, not like a 
£50 cannibal like double leg, as

774
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,280
heavy as you can. 
And then the second is 

775
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,280
plyometric work. 
So those two things can provide 

776
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:21,600
the right stimulus for actual 
bone growth and generation where

777
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,520
it's not why you? 
Have these fractures. 

778
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,960
Correct. 
Yes, this is the long term. 

779
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,720
This is the long term, like when
you're back, how do you prevent 

780
00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:34,200
it from coming again? 
There's two ways to include 

781
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,120
exercise, and it's going to be 
those two As. 

782
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,360
Wow, I have news. 
How did I do that? 

783
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,440
I don't know what I just did, 
but that was amazing. 

784
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,160
Okay. 
Happy birthday. 

785
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,720
Coming back to this question, I 
wanted to, I want to just double

786
00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:52,400
down on that part about making 
sure you're eating enough. 

787
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,560
I think with with the high 
school athletes that I've seen, 

788
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,440
many of them have benefited from
seeing a sports dietitian and 

789
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,520
and getting their blood drawn 
and checking levels of their 

790
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,240
iron and like all of these other
things. 

791
00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:09,400
Because if that's off, you can 
do so many things right and it's

792
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,320
still not going to get you where
you need to be. 

793
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:16,360
So if you have the means and the
resources to go get a blood draw

794
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,360
and get everything checked out 
to see kind of what all of your 

795
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,440
levels are at, I highly, highly 
recommend it. 

796
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,840
And working with a sports 
dietitian because there's two 

797
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:30,800
things that have can really help
with reducing risk of injuries. 

798
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,920
And one of in youth athletics 
with bone stress injuries, one 

799
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,720
of them is the right nutrition 
and they even looked at like a 

800
00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:40,760
cup of milk and how much 1 cup 
of milk a day decreases bone 

801
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,240
stress injury in youth athletes.
It's like it's outrageous, it's 

802
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:46,720
very high. 
The second thing is sports 

803
00:39:46,720 --> 00:39:50,320
specialization. 
So I don't know what this 

804
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:54,120
athlete is doing, but like, 
you're obviously very talented 

805
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:58,480
runner, I would say. 
I would call it an imperative to

806
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:04,160
participate in like a pickup, 
even ultimate frisbee league or 

807
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,320
like intramural basketball or 
soccer, like somewhere where you

808
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:12,160
are for like 8 weeks of the year
not running as your primary mode

809
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,840
of exercise and training. 
Like that's not where your hard 

810
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,400
stuff comes up. 
Get in a Level 1 sport where you

811
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,320
are cutting and it doesn't need 
to be official with your school.

812
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:24,560
Like just find an outlet where 
you can participate in that for 

813
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,040
an offseason. 
Season of your running. 

814
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,240
That is a huge part of 
decreasing injury risk, like a 

815
00:40:29,240 --> 00:40:33,400
70 to 80% decrease of bone 
stress injuries for those kids 

816
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,600
who participate in sport special
or who do not participate in 

817
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,720
sport specialization, meaning 
that they are doing something 

818
00:40:39,720 --> 00:40:42,960
else for at least two months out
of the year, if not three. 

819
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,320
So that that'd be my other thing
is like put in some sport 

820
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:51,720
specialization and make sure 
that you have enough the the 

821
00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:54,680
right nutrition which will 
probably take some some guidance

822
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,480
from a sports dietitian. 
Matt, do you have anything that 

823
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,040
you wanted to add? 
Yeah, I just wanted to to get 

824
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:01,880
people aware of the fact that 
you notice that we really 

825
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,640
haven't brought shoes up in this
conversation, right? 

826
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,280
Like there is kind of there's a 
priority list of things, same 

827
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:08,680
thing that they kind of teach my
students. 

828
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,040
Like, you know, there's there 
are certain things that when 

829
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,440
you're talking about certain 
pathologies, those are the 

830
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,520
biggest priorities, right. 
Shoes don't protect us as much 

831
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,480
as they claim to, like even the 
maximal shoes, we found that 

832
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,760
there's actually sometimes more 
like joint stress with those 

833
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,200
because you actually land 
harder. 

834
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,520
So you got to take care of a lot
of stuff before we even think 

835
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:31,600
about getting shoes. 
And I encourage you just getting

836
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,600
the right pair of shoes going to
be the the, the end goal later 

837
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:35,680
on. 
Don't even worry about that. 

838
00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:39,080
Really prioritize nutrition. 
Cause the other thing about high

839
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,680
school like athletes is high 
schoolers often don't really 

840
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,120
realize, especially athletes 
don't understand how many 

841
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,440
calories they're burning like 
just just like their basic 

842
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,840
metabolism is already incredibly
high. 

843
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,040
Then you add running like 10 
plus miles a day on top of that 

844
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,680
like the caloric intake is 
really high and as soon as you 

845
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:01,200
drop below that what the your 
kind of basic levels. 

846
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:05,480
One of the first tissues you're 
going to pull from is your bones

847
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,360
right. 
That's one of the first areas. 

848
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:11,440
So in terms of longevity this is
a really great lesson to go. 

849
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,240
If I want to participate in the 
sports yes I need to think about

850
00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:16,880
as a high school athlete if I 
I've you've already got the 

851
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,960
speed you're running sub 16 as a
as a high schooler like that's 

852
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:21,080
awesome. 
If you're thinking about college

853
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,240
stuff like that, do the long 
game. 

854
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,680
You you, you're not having to, 
like do extra stuff. 

855
00:42:25,720 --> 00:42:27,840
Don't you think the long game 
right. 

856
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,920
But in part of that long game is
going, how do you optimize your 

857
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,920
nutrition to fuel yourself? 
How do you optimize your 

858
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,000
training to get the most out of 
who you are? 

859
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,520
And more miles, as David said, 
isn't necessarily better. 

860
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,080
Some people do worse with more 
miles, some people do better. 

861
00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:46,960
You have to figure out what your
body can tolerate because the 

862
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,880
only way you're going to get 
better is if you're healthy. 

863
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:51,880
If you keep getting injured, 
that's going to interrupt it, 

864
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,200
right? 
Which just sounds like it might 

865
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,560
be happening. 
So finding that optimal level 

866
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,520
with nutrition, your training, 
stuff like that is kind of the 

867
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,800
best way to think long term. 
Have the the long game mindset 

868
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:03,880
because that's going to it's 
when it's going to give you the 

869
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,480
most success especially as a 
high school athlete because I 

870
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,120
mean not to scare you like you 
know you start talking about 

871
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,720
bone stress injuries getting 
into that distal area right. 

872
00:43:11,720 --> 00:43:14,960
Like you're still growing like 
that growth those growth right 

873
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,600
there. 
So you want to be a little, I'm 

874
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,560
not trying to scare you, but 
just optimize that nutrition, 

875
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,440
optimize your training. 
Think a little bit more about 

876
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,360
being multi sport. 
This might be really helpful 

877
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,160
because yeah, you know, going to
college on a scholarship is 

878
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:30,480
really important because college
is expensive, right? 

879
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,920
People get really, you know, 
it's it's scary. 

880
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:34,120
How am I going to pay for 
college? 

881
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,520
Stuff like that. 
But I think you don't have to 

882
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:38,240
worry about that much. 
You're already running some 

883
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,680
blazing fast times. 
Think, think the long game of 

884
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,480
taking care of your your body 
too. 

885
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:47,040
And the performance will come 
when you've optimized those 

886
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,320
things. 
It's really hard to convince 

887
00:43:49,720 --> 00:43:53,400
high schoolers of this, but the 
statistics show for most sports 

888
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:58,160
that those who sport specialize 
do not perform as well as people

889
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,960
who are sport diverse in doing 
many different sports. 

890
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:05,040
So yes, you are eventually going
to need to specialize, but as 

891
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,360
you are growing up, you should 
do so much because you'll 

892
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,440
actually be better. 
You'll actually perform better 

893
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:12,560
at your sport when you 
specialize or when you do not 

894
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,840
specialize too early on. 
Can I use an anecdote of 

895
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,240
something personally? 
Sure. 

896
00:44:17,240 --> 00:44:19,520
So my I don't know. 
For those that listen that my 

897
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:21,680
wife is, you know, my wife is a 
professional runner. 

898
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,120
She ran professionally for 
Solomon, for Skechers. 

899
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:28,200
She's run on a national level. 
She actually was a multi sport 

900
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,680
athlete until her junior year. 
Like, she did basketball, she 

901
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:35,680
did soccer, she did all kinds of
stuff and she was not it. 

902
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:37,440
What? 
She didn't really get serious 

903
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:41,320
into running until junior ish, 
late junior, almost senior year.

904
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:45,800
And then she got a full ride to 
Oregon State, which was too 

905
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:47,680
much. 
Being away from home was too 

906
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:49,000
much for her. 
So then she transferred back to 

907
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,520
Cal Poly Pomona on a full 
scholarship. 

908
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:55,720
But you know, it's that sport 
specialization thing really is 

909
00:44:55,720 --> 00:44:57,160
true. 
It's something that people ask 

910
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,760
us with our daughter Isabella 
going, oh, are you going to make

911
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:01,800
her a pro honor? 
No, I want her to stay away from

912
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,160
running for as long as possible.
If she likes it later, she can 

913
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,520
do it. 
But you know, that evidence is 

914
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,720
pretty clear. 
Enjoy the multi sport, be a kid,

915
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:11,680
have fun. 
It'll make you better. 

916
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:16,000
That goes to parents too. 
Let your kids have fun. 

917
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,600
All right, So we're going to 
move on to our next topic within

918
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:22,760
these mailbag questions. 
This one is from the anime 

919
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,000
runner. 
They are. 

920
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,320
So I'm going to summarize. 
This is a longer e-mail, but I'm

921
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,000
going to summarize it for us a 
little bit. 

922
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,040
So they're a flat footed runner,
has worn stability shoes for a 

923
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,080
long time. 
Recently has been doing more 

924
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:38,160
stable neutral shoes with side 
walls and they basically are 

925
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,000
saying that they'll put in a 
really hard effort. 

926
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:42,560
They're racing in the Hyperion 
Max. 

927
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,920
They ran a 343710 K in the 
Hyperion Max, so. 

928
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,600
That's. 
Great, really great time, which 

929
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:50,760
they say is stable enough for 
them. 

930
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:52,960
But what they're noticing is 
after those really hard 

931
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:57,120
workouts, they notice a trend 
where after these races they 

932
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:02,080
have severe arch pain after they
race in these kinds of things. 

933
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,480
So and they're saying last year 
they ran 2000 miles in The 

934
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:09,160
Tempest and the glycerin GTS 20 
and in the Clifton Mine 9. 

935
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,480
But the problem is that they're 
having is that after these races

936
00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:16,200
for, you know, even 10 days or 
so, they're still having even 

937
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,360
regardless of the shoe that they
wear, they're still having sharp

938
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,120
pain. 
So what sort of recommendations 

939
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:26,000
or thoughts do do we have for 
this person and how would you 

940
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,240
concept conceptualize what 
they're experiencing? 

941
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,880
Matt, you have thoughts? 
I can tell from your face. 

942
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,920
Do this. 
This does not serve as medical 

943
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:39,160
advice and you need to actually 
go get checked out, but I want 

944
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:40,760
the two of you to hear me out 
right. 

945
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:45,080
So history of like some 
posterior tibialis fatigue right

946
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,640
this kind of need. 
So foot arch being a little bit 

947
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,240
lower, right, Have needing some 
stability shoes in the past, 

948
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:54,360
things really bugging them more 
after the race. 

949
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,320
So not it sounds doesn't sound 
like it's during the race, it's 

950
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,360
more afterwards right? 
Something under the ball, the 

951
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,040
foot kind of making me think 
like maybe some insertional 

952
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,280
positive tendinopathy kind of 
thing. 

953
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,920
Like is this even shoe related? 
What do you think I might be 

954
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:11,480
totally wrong. 
I'm not diagnosing. 

955
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:15,200
I'm just going. 
This is smell a little tendon. 

956
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,640
I I think when I first, when I 
first read this, I I kind of 

957
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:23,040
thought like not to not to 
minimize this in any way, but 

958
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,800
the idea of like well, you just 
raced so things might not be 

959
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:30,640
super comfortable and in that 
realm there's a couple of 

960
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:32,960
potential things that lie in 
that area. 

961
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,640
It's like maybe that's that 
thing is problematic and you 

962
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,480
just don't stress it enough 
until you put in that Max effort

963
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:42,120
and then it takes a couple of 
weeks to recover from races. 

964
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:45,640
That's just kind of reality. 
Things, our, our bodies don't 

965
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:49,440
just bounce back in a day like 
they did when we're 15, right? 

966
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:55,080
So yeah, I was kind of in a 
similar similar camp, But again,

967
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,520
not trying to diagnose this 
situation, but just thinking 

968
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,280
like this seems kind of like an 
expected result where I don't 

969
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,840
think it's something that 
whatever shoe you're racing in 

970
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:05,880
is the problem. 
I think it's more related to the

971
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,920
effort and demand that's put on 
the body and then your body is 

972
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:11,600
recovering over that period of 
time. 

973
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,400
But it because of how severe it 
is, it's probably worth checking

974
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,160
it out with somebody who could 
do a deeper diagnosis and 

975
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:18,920
probably have it checked out 
when it's irritated. 

976
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,040
Because if it's one of those 
things that's never over there 

977
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,720
until you race hard, it's going 
to be hard to do a clinical 

978
00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:25,160
diagnosis on something like 
that. 

979
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,240
David, what do you think? 
Can I add something really 

980
00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:28,440
quick? 
Yeah. 

981
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,600
It'll go into David. 
I think people kind of forget 

982
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:36,600
how much racing takes out of you
when you're doing it really 

983
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:38,200
hard. 
Like, it's kind of the same 

984
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:39,760
thing. 
Nathan Menthol, it mentioned 

985
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,400
like, oh, you haven't, you know,
sometimes you haven't stressed 

986
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,400
yourself out enough to really 
know that things are irritable. 

987
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,840
Like I'll give a little behind 
the scenes thing of my research 

988
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,760
on Masters runners. 
I when I was looking at master 

989
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,640
runner who did and did not have 
Achilles Henopathy, I found 

990
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:56,760
their sub Maximal like their 
normal easy paced running 

991
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:58,640
mechanics were not any 
different. 

992
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:00,440
There was no difference 
whatsoever. 

993
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,120
It wasn't until I really started
to stress to making them do 

994
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,200
stuff like maximal single leg 
hops. 

995
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,080
Things they hadn't done, they 
really started to push. 

996
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:11,240
Then I started to see some of 
those differences and so racing 

997
00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:13,280
is where that comes out. 
You're putting it all on the 

998
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,280
table, and David knows this 
better than than Nathan. 

999
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,280
I cause the the efforts that 
you've done recently, like your 

1000
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,120
recent marathon, the 5K stuff, 
you're running at such high 

1001
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,080
intensities people don't 
recognize. 

1002
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,400
It's a lot of stress in the body
and some stuff. 

1003
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,400
Hurting's not abnormal, but it 
just means you need some time to

1004
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:31,200
recover. 
Yeah. 

1005
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:32,760
Dave, maybe you can speak to 
that better than us. 

1006
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:37,680
Like what hurts when you finish?
Yeah, I mean, but I, I, I hear 

1007
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:39,720
what you guys are saying, but 
there's also a part of me that 

1008
00:49:39,720 --> 00:49:44,080
like, why is it expected, right?
You you you train for a race, 

1009
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:45,720
right? 
Like you should be able to 

1010
00:49:45,720 --> 00:49:48,800
recover from 1:00. 
I should, I should maybe clarify

1011
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,560
like it's not surprising, but it
shouldn't be expected. 

1012
00:49:52,720 --> 00:49:56,800
Like, it's not like if somebody 
has like a tendon issue or some 

1013
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,480
sort of like thing that needs to
be worked on, it's not 

1014
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,320
surprising that it only bugs you
after a hard effort, kind of 

1015
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:03,800
regardless of what shoes you'd 
wear. 

1016
00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:06,560
So, but yes, keep going. 
I like where you're going with 

1017
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,040
it so. 
FYI, tendons the like the most. 

1018
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,680
The most stress you could put on
them is doing like really hard 

1019
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:13,720
fast efforts. 
Totally, yeah. 

1020
00:50:13,720 --> 00:50:16,880
And I I agree completely. 
And I think you guys both kind 

1021
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:21,400
of meshed what I was thinking in
a much nicer way of saying it. 

1022
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:25,080
That's not true. 
But there's a common saying 

1023
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:26,320
practice. 
Like, you play. 

1024
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,400
And I feel like I I don't know 
what this person's training 

1025
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,360
looks like, but it's like, I'm 
fine for these two thousand 

1026
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:35,560
other miles. 
It's only when I go fast, it's 

1027
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:37,360
like, well, maybe we should go 
fast a little bit more 

1028
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:39,840
frequently, right? 
You know what I mean? 

1029
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:40,720
Like. 
Adept. 

1030
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:44,560
Yeah, it creates meditations. 
If you're sore after a 5K in 

1031
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,400
your calves for a couple days, 
yeah, you just ran a hard 5K. 

1032
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,800
But if you're out of Commission 
for a couple weeks, that's 

1033
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,680
you're not adapted to run that 
race in my mind. 

1034
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:55,400
That's very true. 
You know, like like you run but 

1035
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:58,400
you're not like training. 
Does that make sense? 

1036
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:04,480
And so it's, I think just 
creating some of those 

1037
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:08,240
environments where your leg is 
getting loaded in a way where 

1038
00:51:08,240 --> 00:51:11,640
it's either speed driven, it's 
loaded in a way where you're 

1039
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,840
working on the intrinsic foot 
muscles, that Tibialis posterior

1040
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:16,920
so that it doesn't give out on 
you. 

1041
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,240
And I agree completely. 
When I first read this question 

1042
00:51:20,240 --> 00:51:22,400
and heard the question the 
second time when you had said 

1043
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:26,560
it, I'm not hearing that this is
a shoe issue, right? 

1044
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:30,080
This is not, it doesn't matter 
what shoe it is, you do just 

1045
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,240
fine in all the other shoes. 
It's when you go fast. 

1046
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:35,920
And so it's like, OK, so now 
let's take a step back and look 

1047
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:38,240
at this and it's like, OK, So 
every time I go fast, this 

1048
00:51:38,240 --> 00:51:39,040
happens. 
OK. 

1049
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,120
When I go fast at a certain 
pace, does this happen? 

1050
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:44,200
Does it when I go fast for a 
certain distance, does this 

1051
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:49,040
happen, is this a fatigue issue 
and is it a fatigue or a power 

1052
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:52,800
issue or both, you know and it's
like that's going to take a 

1053
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,560
little bit more work and kind of
unwinding it and looking at it. 

1054
00:51:55,560 --> 00:52:00,120
But the root of this I believe 
is probably not necessarily from

1055
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,840
a mechanical flat foot and or a 
shoe issue. 

1056
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:07,160
This is this sounds like an 
adaptive strength, power, 

1057
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:10,280
endurance side of things and a 
conditioning issue. 

1058
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:14,520
I think the potentially. 
Being flat footed might put you 

1059
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:17,560
it's like being high arch versus
flat foot that's going to put 

1060
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:19,840
that's going to put you at risk 
for different things. 

1061
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:21,120
One is not better than the 
other. 

1062
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:27,160
However having that plus it 
sounds like this tissue might 

1063
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,800
need to get loaded and I think 
David brings up a great point is

1064
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,840
like one of the fun facts is fun
things to think about is hey, 

1065
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:36,400
when does this get worse or does
it different versus a short hard

1066
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,440
race versus a long hard race. 
Like are those different things 

1067
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:42,400
that might be something it's 
either an endurance issue or a 

1068
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:46,000
power strength issue being able 
to figure that out and then also

1069
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,320
going hey, what tissue is this? 
But it sounds like I it doesn't 

1070
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:51,640
sound like a shoe issue. 
It sounds like a tissue issue. 

1071
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:54,760
So might be very helpful. 
Yeah I like that. 

1072
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,280
It might be really helpful to go
work with the runner, running PT

1073
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:00,200
or some kind of running 
clinician and go, hey, this is 

1074
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:03,480
what I'm experiencing. 
Can you do an exam or evaluation

1075
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:05,520
to go kind of look at this like 
lucky, lucky. 

1076
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:08,080
You're still able to run and 
race but I think this might be a

1077
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,760
good thing to take care of if if
you know it's taking that long 

1078
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:13,040
and if it's bothering you. 
But I don't think this. 

1079
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:14,360
I think the three of us are 
going. 

1080
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:15,640
I don't. 
This doesn't sound like a shoe 

1081
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:17,600
issue. 
This sounds like I'm gonna use 

1082
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:19,040
that again. 
A tissue issue. 

1083
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:22,080
Great. 
OK, we have one. 

1084
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:23,200
We have a we. 
Should have a. 

1085
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,600
Can we make a like that's? 
A new pocket little badge. 

1086
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:29,960
Think tissue. 
Issue a sting Pulse shoes. 

1087
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:32,320
Are tools and tissue. 
Issue I like that I wonder if I 

1088
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:34,640
can make my like screen make a. 
Tissue issue? 

1089
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,520
Oh, there, there's my thumbs up.
All right, your screen liked it.

1090
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:38,720
So yeah, we should do. 
This. 

1091
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:42,160
OK, so we have one more. 
Question for the for the night. 

1092
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:45,920
It also pertains to flat feet. 
I'm going to ask their question 

1093
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:48,280
and then I'm going to ask you a 
different question and then 

1094
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:50,160
we'll come back to their 
question. 

1095
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:53,280
So it says. 
So this is from Michael and he 

1096
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,720
says, hey guys, I have flat feet
but respond better to a neutral 

1097
00:53:56,720 --> 00:53:58,880
shoe. 
The only thing is that I hate 

1098
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:00,920
the feeling of my arch touching 
the side wall. 

1099
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:04,720
Any recommendations on trainers 
without an aggressive arch? 

1100
00:54:04,720 --> 00:54:07,200
So let's get to the 
recommendations in a minute. 

1101
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:11,640
Let's hit pause though and talk 
about that concept of matching 

1102
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,600
foot type to shoe type. 
What do we know about that? 

1103
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:18,120
Who wants to take? 
It doesn't work it it. 

1104
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:20,800
It's there's been some I already
knew that was going to happen. 

1105
00:54:21,240 --> 00:54:23,520
Shoot that one down. 
Yeah, it. 

1106
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:25,440
Doesn't typically work as well 
as we would like. 

1107
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:27,520
There's, and we know this 
because not it's not just a 

1108
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,360
couple anecdotal things. 
It's been there's some huge 

1109
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,360
military studies that have 
looked at this and found no 

1110
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:35,880
different in injury rates or 
even like sometimes even 

1111
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:38,960
comfort. 
So what we've found over time 

1112
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:42,920
that getting comfort is better 
or matching your history. 

1113
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:46,120
We know that people with a 
history of certain pathologies 

1114
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:50,040
like posterior tibialis issues 
or Achilles sometimes do better 

1115
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:52,960
with stability shoes. 
But if you haven't had that 

1116
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:56,600
issue and you feel fine and 
you've got quote, UN quote flat 

1117
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,800
feet, which is just describes an
anatomical position not a 

1118
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:02,680
pathology. 
Or if you pronate and you feel 

1119
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:07,120
better in neutral shoes, just 
put the neutral shoes on the the

1120
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:10,760
whole like wet paper tests or 
even I'm going to shoot this 

1121
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:12,080
down because I hear this all the
time. 

1122
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:15,200
Those foots, the static 
footstick scanners that you see 

1123
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:18,240
in different places that take it
like, oh, your arch looks like 

1124
00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:21,280
this, it's they're not accurate.
They're not valid, they're not 

1125
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:23,040
reliable. 
They're not accurate because 

1126
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:26,520
it's not watching you in motion 
and it doesn't take into account

1127
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:29,040
what you prefer and actually 
what's comfortable on your feet.

1128
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:32,080
So those are just flashy tools 
to try to sell you something to 

1129
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:34,840
keep you entertained. 
OK, sorry, I'm being mean, but 

1130
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:38,080
it's it's what it is, sorry, 
based on all the current 

1131
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:42,040
clinical like evidence. 
So if you do well in a neutral 

1132
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:45,120
shoe and you pronate, go enjoy 
your run. 

1133
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:47,240
So now let's go back to this 
person. 

1134
00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:49,760
'S question, which is basically,
yeah, I like, I like neutral 

1135
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:51,720
shoes. 
They're on board with that cool.

1136
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:54,360
But they don't like the sidewall
feeling, which I get. 

1137
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:56,560
I understand that. 
There's plenty of people who I 

1138
00:55:56,560 --> 00:56:00,480
know who basically wear. 
It's like I I call it the 

1139
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:05,120
Clifton Blister, but like, it's 
right on the. 

1140
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:06,880
Midfoot. 
I so I'm just picturing him 

1141
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:09,360
wearing a Clifton and being like
I get this blister on my 

1142
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:13,080
midfoot. 
But what shoe recommendations do

1143
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:16,440
we have that don't have an 
aggressive kind of side wall at 

1144
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:19,640
the area of the arch? 
What do we got, dude? 

1145
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:20,800
One of the first shoes that came
to. 

1146
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:23,920
My mind, which has actually been
really popular, is the Ghost Max

1147
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:27,520
from books has been one that has
a very low arch because the 

1148
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:30,480
insole's actually designed to 
take orthotics and that's it. 

1149
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,040
There's no real major sidewalk 
here. 

1150
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:36,240
That's one of the first ones 
that came to my mind, and it's 

1151
00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:39,320
not too controlling either. 
If it's, that's something I 

1152
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:41,280
don't know what everybody else 
thinks, but that was the first 

1153
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:43,400
one that came to my mind. 
I have a question for both of 

1154
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,360
you because I didn't run in the.
Most recent round of Solomon Rd.

1155
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:50,120
shoes, but I know that the 
Solomon Ultra Glide on the trail

1156
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:53,640
did not have an aggressive kind 
of sidewall through the mid 

1157
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:56,000
foot. 
How would the little one they 

1158
00:56:56,240 --> 00:56:57,640
they had the? 
Road ones Ultra. 

1159
00:56:57,640 --> 00:56:59,520
Glide. 
Yeah, the Ultra Glide. 

1160
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:00,840
The Ultra Glide. 
Little one. 

1161
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:02,960
Oh, no, no, no. 
What's the air? 

1162
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:04,360
The Aeroglade. 
Aero Glide, right? 

1163
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,360
Aero Glide the Little. 
One too. 

1164
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:07,880
Yeah, I was just curious. 
I was just. 

1165
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:10,400
Wondering it doesn't it? 
I didn't feel like. 

1166
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:13,760
It made things more stable, but 
it's still there, so it they 

1167
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:15,880
might feel it. 
Yeah, you might feel that. 

1168
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:19,240
But arch wasn't too high, Like 
if you're talking about like the

1169
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:20,600
ends, the insole and stuff like 
that. 

1170
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:23,280
Arch wasn't too high in a lot of
the Salomon shoes that so that 

1171
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:24,920
that might be an option 
actually. 

1172
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:28,600
But Ghost Max was my immediate, 
immediate thought. 

1173
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:30,680
Yeah, that's a good one. 
But I. 

1174
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:34,240
Would have said the. 
Oh my gosh, I'm blanking it on 

1175
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:39,200
the Saucony ride. 
Not the ride. 

1176
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:40,960
What's there? 
Orthotic. 

1177
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:42,920
Oh my gosh. 
I'm so sorry. 

1178
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:45,800
Andrew and Corey, are you going?
To hate me, I'm. 

1179
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:49,600
Why am I blanking Omni not? 
Omni they're. 

1180
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:52,440
Stable, neutral. 
I loved it so much. 

1181
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:55,360
Oh, I know what you're talking 
about. 

1182
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:59,760
Why am I forgetting this? 
Daily Trainer, We'll get to it, 

1183
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:00,160
David. 
Why? 

1184
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:01,960
Don't you talk and? 
We'll come back to this. 

1185
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:05,920
It's tough because. 
A lot of the shoes that are 

1186
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:08,440
coming out now do have a gentle 
side wall. 

1187
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:12,960
I will say Hoka can be a little 
bit aggressive on that one 

1188
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:17,200
sometimes and I get it like as 
far as like that irritation 

1189
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:19,160
there. 
Oh, the Echelon. 

1190
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:22,760
Echelon is not a good option 
because it actually. 

1191
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:25,920
Has massive sidewalls which is 
why it works so well for me. 

1192
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:28,880
But the arch is low. 
So the for this, this 

1193
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:33,640
individual, yeah, but goes back 
but I I'd say some of the 

1194
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:37,560
Andrea. 
Corey, sorry, I'd say some of 

1195
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:40,400
the the quote UN quote like 
traditional like high drop 

1196
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,600
neutral shoes, a lot of them 
don't have big side walls. 

1197
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:46,000
So like the ghost doesn't really
have a big one. 

1198
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:50,000
The I almost said deviate again.
Man, the Velocity Nitro 3 

1199
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:54,840
doesn't really have a big 
1/8/88. 80, yeah. 

1200
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:57,240
I mean, it's like really. 
Gentle the ride. 

1201
00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:02,000
Is pretty small too, but a lot 
of those ones, they don't really

1202
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:03,800
have a big one. 
They're they're aimed at being 

1203
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:05,840
neutral, right? 
So they don't, they might have a

1204
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:08,320
tiny bit of guidance, but they 
don't really put a whole lot 

1205
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,640
into it. 
And they're not that classic 

1206
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:13,760
high stack. 
I say classic, but it's not 

1207
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:15,480
classic. 
But the high stack Rockford Ride

1208
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:18,120
that we're seeing from a lot of 
shoes that are coming out where 

1209
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:20,480
they're putting these sidewalls 
in to kind of help give you a 

1210
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:23,160
little bit of guidance because 
there's just so much foam under 

1211
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:24,360
you and kind of keep you 
centered. 

1212
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:28,440
So looking at some of those 
more, quote UN quote traditional

1213
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:32,800
designs that we've seen with the
neutral trainers before this 

1214
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:39,120
giant resurgence of like high 
stack rocker shoes, those shoes 

1215
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:41,800
usually aren't too bad on the 
side walls. 

1216
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:44,160
Mizuno Wave Rider being another 
one that comes to mind. 

1217
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:45,960
Oh, it's a great, that's a great
option. 

1218
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:50,160
Yeah, awesome. 
Well, everyone, thank you for 

1219
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:53,680
joining us on this episode. 
If you are could be so kind to 

1220
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:56,720
take the next 30 seconds to go 
on to wherever you listen to 

1221
00:59:56,720 --> 01:00:00,160
this podcast and give us a 
rating and a small review. 

1222
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:03,440
That really helps the increase 
the reach of this podcast, which

1223
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:05,800
just increases our ability to do
it. 

1224
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:09,360
And and kind of continue to 
spend the time making this stuff

1225
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:11,520
because we have a lot of fun 
doing it and we hope that it's 

1226
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:14,320
beneficial for you all. 
And again, if you want to enter 

1227
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:18,200
the giveaway after you kind of 
leave those reviews of the 

1228
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:19,880
podcast. 
Past You can go on and comment 

1229
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:23,960
on YouTube and that will enter 
you into the giveaway. 

1230
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:26,040
If you want to check out other 
stuff you can go to 

1231
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:28,880
doctorsofrunning.com. 
You can also follow us on pretty

1232
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:32,400
much every social at Doctors of 
Running and we hope you all have

1233
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:34,080
a great day, whatever you're up 
to.