1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,040 This episode of the Doctors of Running podcast is sponsored by 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:05,360 our friends at Running Warehouse. 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:08,160 We're all about variety here, which is why we love the large 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,160 selection of options they offer online. 5 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,200 You can find all of today's stable, neutral shoe options at 6 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,720 runningwarehouse.com today. Also, did you know we have our 7 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,960 very own Dor page there? That's right, you can be just 8 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:21,960 like Matt, David, Nathan, and Andrea. 9 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:24,760 Find all of our team's favorite Running Warehouse pics at the 10 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:26,200 official Doctors of Running shop. 11 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,040 You can find the link in our episode description to check it 12 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:42,240 out. Hey everyone and welcome to the 13 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,040 Doctors Running podcast where we, a group of doctors physical 14 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,760 therapy, talk about the art and the science of the things we put 15 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,600 in our feed today. I have Doctor Sloss here with me 16 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,000 and we are going to be going through one of our favorite 17 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,240 topics, which is talking about what are stable neutral shoes 18 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,520 and comparing and talking about a couple of our favorites that 19 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,920 are on the market right now. Before we get into that, we're 20 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,360 actually, I mean before we get into our main topic, we're going 21 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,080 to talk about some of the stuff and a new segment they're going 22 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,960 to call in for testing. This is going to be sponsored by 23 00:01:11,960 --> 00:01:15,240 Scratch Labs, who's been amazing help and support for us. 24 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,520 But in this segment, we're going to talk about the shoes that we 25 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,320 are currently testing or that most recently arrived at our 26 00:01:20,320 --> 00:01:22,440 doors, giving some initial thoughts about the shoe and our 27 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:24,480 experience. If you do want to stock up on 28 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,320 any running fuel or hydration, you can use the code doctors of 29 00:01:27,320 --> 00:01:31,800 running all one word lower case at checkout for 20% off your 30 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:36,160 first order from scratch labs. So David, what is in for testing 31 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,440 for you? Yeah, so I mean, I'm finishing 32 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:40,760 up some more testing stuff right now that should literally be 33 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:42,760 done today. So come and get into this next 34 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:44,080 week. Got some fresh things on the 35 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:48,400 docket. So going on from the training 36 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,720 Rd. mileage standpoint, I'm going to be looking at the 37 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,200 Skechers Arrow Spark is kind of up next. 38 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:55,360 So that should be pretty fun because that's using the 39 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:56,640 hyperburst ice, right? Yeah. 40 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:00,720 And then for a little bit of trail running, yes, with trail 41 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:04,480 shoes, Topo Vista. So that is, I'm actually really 42 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:06,840 excited about this one. I think it's going to be really 43 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,360 nice. I feel like I've been saying the 44 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,720 word Topo Vista for two episodes now and I haven't actually like 45 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:17,280 taken it out yet for anything meaningful and trail related, 46 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,000 but that will be happening soon, I promise. 47 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:24,560 I got bombarded with wear tests, so those are kind of the big 48 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,280 ones. This one should be coming out 49 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,280 later this week. I just need to get one more 50 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,760 workout in on them and that's the meta speed Sky Tokyo. 51 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,640 So from ASICS, I'm excited about this one. 52 00:02:34,640 --> 00:02:37,440 I just want to take it on one more kind of longer effort and 53 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:41,120 kind of really see how it feels as far as like a tempo type of 54 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,840 effort and then after that, then transitioning into the 361 Flame 55 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:46,840 4. So that's kind of what's on the 56 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:48,840 docket for me in the immediate future. 57 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,640 What about you? So I've got a couple things good 58 00:02:51,640 --> 00:02:54,520 and a lot of stuff from Saucony. I just finished up my testing 59 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:58,600 miles on the Saucony Endorphin Speed 5, and I also am ripping 60 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:00,680 off the outsole at like 65 miles. 61 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,560 So I'll glue that back on and try to see if I can get it to 62 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:04,960 100. But this has been a really 63 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,080 interesting model where it's a little softer than last version. 64 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:09,760 They took out the lot of extension of the plate, which 65 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:11,360 makes it a little bit more lateral biased. 66 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,800 And Andrea just did a run in this and she's like, oh, my 67 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:15,640 lateral ankle hurt. And I'm like, well that makes 68 00:03:15,640 --> 00:03:18,480 sense why I'm enjoying this because it's more loudly biased. 69 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,800 It feels like a little bit more medial guidance in this shoe, 70 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:23,760 but a little softer. Still can do workouts. 71 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:26,480 Not as aggressive as the last version, but full review is up 72 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,880 on doctors running right now. Another thing from Saucony is 73 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:34,320 the Triumph 23, which is totally different from the Triumph 22. 74 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,920 It's now not as soft. It's much more bouncy and 75 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,080 responsive under foot, way more snug. 76 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,200 Ironically, some of the things that we'll talk about today is a 77 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,080 little bit more of medial flair here, which makes it just a 78 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,800 touch more stable for me. So I've actually been able to 79 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,320 get some long runs on this. So but very different to you in 80 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,960 the past. I've also got the Brooks Ghost 81 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:58,320 17, which was a big surprise. This shoe was totally different 82 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,880 than the prior versions. It is also doing the same thing 83 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:03,440 again in the shoe that we're going to talk about today where 84 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,040 they changed the way the midfoot setup the sidewalls a little bit 85 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:07,800 better. Even though the shoe's heavier, 86 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,160 it's actually more responsive. I am liking this way better than 87 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:12,880 I think. I think this actually might be 88 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,680 the first Ghost that I I actually like and I've been 89 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:20,320 running in this since like version 7 or 8 and I have not 90 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,240 liked them very much until this. So this has been really, really 91 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,680 interesting and finally, I haven't been putting a lot of 92 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,680 miles on racing flats recently. Most been training and even 93 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,440 doing like a lot of workouts and trainers, but I do have the Puma 94 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:37,440 fast Star three, which is super aggressive. 95 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,360 I think this thing bothers my post tape every time I put it on 96 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,440 and I've been nursing it, it's getting a lot better. 97 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:44,840 So I can handle this a little bit more. 98 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,920 But this thing is very aggressive. 99 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,120 It's the exact opposite of stable neutral. 100 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,120 If you can look at how this is designed. 101 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,720 But it is very fast and very fun. 102 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:59,200 It's motivating me to try to get in some 5 KS and see if I can do 103 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,880 some race testing because I haven't had that flexibility in 104 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,400 a while and I will see. The last thing that we've 105 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,440 already gotten a review up, but I'm just enjoying this so much 106 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:12,040 is the ASIC Keano 32, which is like a borderline stable neutral 107 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,520 shoe. I wonder why I'm holding it 108 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:15,400 here. I wonder. 109 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:16,720 Why? It's almost like we might talk 110 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:18,800 about it. I don't even know I had it here. 111 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,120 Yeah, I have 80 miles on my pair right now, closing in the on the 112 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,840 100 mile review. We have a written review on 113 00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:27,280 doctor running and a comparison review on YouTube. 114 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,720 But it's the lower drop, it's slightly lighter. 115 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,000 It's a little snappy under foot. I'm I'm really enjoying the shoe 116 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,320 and keep grabbing it, whereas previous versions I had to force 117 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,280 myself to get miles on because I'm like, OK, it's a Keanu. 118 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,000 I need to get miles on this. It's not the lightest shoe, it's 119 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,800 not the snappiest. This is so much better. 120 00:05:45,840 --> 00:05:48,360 I'm I'm really enjoying it. So looking forward to that 100 121 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:50,520 miles. But that's a lot of stuff and a 122 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,280 ton of other stuff that I haven't even like unboxed yet or 123 00:05:53,280 --> 00:05:56,080 haven't gotten to review yet. So it's like a lot of stuff on 124 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,680 the docket, but that's what's rotating through my area thus 125 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,880 far. So, yeah, so let's let's get 126 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:04,880 into this. So we talk about and reference 127 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:09,520 stable neutral all the time. I think we are one of the first 128 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,280 ones to actually start talking about what that meant. 129 00:06:12,280 --> 00:06:17,080 I don't want to take credit for that, but one of the reasons we 130 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,640 coined this term many, many years ago was because we started 131 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,440 losing stability shoes. And as someone who generally 132 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:25,960 needs some stability, I think David, you're kind of similar to 133 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:29,760 me where we just need just a lot of times just a touch like maybe 134 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,440 not a motion control shoe like the Brooks Beast, which still 135 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:34,960 has its place. Well, typically do a little 136 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,360 better in like a mild stability here, at least I certainly do 137 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,840 now that mild stability thing that that section of shoes is 138 00:06:40,840 --> 00:06:42,760 almost completely dead and was dead. 139 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,160 So for those of us that had those needs, we kind of had to 140 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:47,840 look elsewhere. And there it's interesting that 141 00:06:47,840 --> 00:06:49,960 as we were testing, she was going, that's weird. 142 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,320 This neutral shoe is actually working for me and it feels 143 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:54,480 stable. I wonder why? 144 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,600 And so we started looking at different components of shoes 145 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,280 going, huh, you know, we're physical therapists, 146 00:06:59,280 --> 00:07:02,760 biomechanical background. What mechanisms would actually 147 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,600 make a shoe more stable? And we started seeing this and 148 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,920 going actually we can identify this new category told called 149 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,480 stable neutral, which is a kind of like mild stability, almost 150 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,600 mild guidance thing where you're seeing not like medial posting 151 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,080 and not traditional stability methods, but enough things that 152 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,040 make them work for people with stability or guidance needs. 153 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,840 And so that's where the phrase stable neutral came from with 154 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,680 shoes that weren't meant to be stability, but we're going to 155 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,960 work for those with especially some mild stability needs. 156 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,360 David, anything I missed on describing kind of the 157 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,840 background for this? No, I think you hit it pretty 158 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,800 well. I think where the next segue to 159 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:39,960 that is, is like what does that actually mean? 160 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:44,720 And so when we look at what that actually means, at least to me, 161 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,680 is we start taking certain components in the footwear that 162 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,600 begin to make it a little bit more stable. 163 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,600 And what is what is that? And so some of the things you 164 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,280 can do is you can increase that cross-sectional area under the 165 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,600 foot, so IE widening that platform, giving a little bit of 166 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,520 a wider base. And you know, like looking back, 167 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,320 you know, maybe 10 years ago, the only company that was really 168 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,320 doing that was probably like Hoka and Ultra maybe. 169 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:16,320 And like now a lot of companies are doing it and it does widen 170 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,400 that platform, gives you a little bit more of a predictable 171 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,720 like platform, you know, to land on and basically lever off of. 172 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,240 That's one thing. And then another component that 173 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,600 I look for sometimes is some basic guidance features like 174 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,480 sidewalls. That's another thing that can 175 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,039 kind of help give you a little bit of a bucket sensation, 176 00:08:33,039 --> 00:08:35,679 whether it's in the heel or the midfoot or even in the forefoot 177 00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:37,679 soul flaring as well as another big one. 178 00:08:38,159 --> 00:08:41,640 But just helping you transition forward and giving you a little 179 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:43,760 bit of guidance without being overkill. 180 00:08:44,159 --> 00:08:47,040 Because I think if you throw all of those components into the 181 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,680 same shoe, that might just become a stability shoe at that 182 00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:52,280 point. But if you throw some components 183 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,920 that just help give a little bit of guidance even geometrically, 184 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,840 like even depending on how the rocker design is built as well 185 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:03,040 in certain directions and biasing, I think it can do a lot 186 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,800 of good for stability. So looking at stability neutral 187 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:08,120 shoes, that's kind of what I think of. 188 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,800 And I'm, I'm not trying to be rude being on my phone for those 189 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,960 of you can see me, I'm looking up because a good friend of 190 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,600 ours, Evan Day, who's one of the head biomechanists at Brooks, we 191 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:19,960 had a great conversation of the day going. 192 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,680 Just so you know that the phrases that you guys use like 193 00:09:22,680 --> 00:09:25,600 side walls, that's not always consistent throughout the 194 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:27,280 industry. So we want to clarify for both 195 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,080 those within the four industry, the listening or those that have 196 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,280 bio mechanics backgrounds. Generally, as he told me that 197 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:37,040 sidewalls actually frequently refer to like the actual side 198 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,800 part of the midsole. We when we say side falls are 199 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,520 generally referring to where the midsole actually comes up around 200 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,280 the foot, which let me make sure I have this right. 201 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,200 Yeah, so that was right. The phrase is either top line or 202 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,560 a David said bucket is another phrase of way of saying how what 203 00:09:53,560 --> 00:09:56,120 we say is sidewalls and just know most the industry says 204 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,000 sidewalls refers to the lateral aspect of the midsole. 205 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,680 So just to clarify that. But the reason where a lot of 206 00:10:02,680 --> 00:10:05,800 these things came from and you mentioned Hoka and ultra is this 207 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,800 came out of necessity. You know, some of the shoes when 208 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,200 they were more lower stack, you can have a really narrow midfoot 209 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,080 and it didn't make it nearly as unstable because there would be 210 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:18,280 a lot of them. You had we had more medially 211 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,040 posted shoes. We had more shoes that had 212 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:21,480 wedges. And when I say these things, 213 00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:23,880 these are more traditional stability mechanisms. 214 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:27,480 So those on YouTube that can see this, I'm hoping holding up the 215 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:31,240 the topo Aura, which is one of the few shoes that still has a 216 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,800 medial post. And it's this basically firmer 217 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,720 piece on the medial side that sits in contrast to the slightly 218 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:39,120 softer midsole that surrounds it. 219 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,160 So that when you do pronate and collapse inwards, there's a 220 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,080 firmer bit of material that you roll into that is called a post. 221 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,000 You can commonly called medial post, but you can have them on 222 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,680 the lateral side as well. There are certain shoes from New 223 00:10:50,680 --> 00:10:52,800 Balance that will have a medial and lateral post. 224 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,080 A lot of Brook shoes still have medial post even though they say 225 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,840 they have guide rails. There's still a medial post in 226 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,520 the midsole on the inner side. That's one more traditional 227 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:04,600 mechanism. The other mechanism, I'm holding 228 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,880 up the wrong shoe. What, and you're not seeing this 229 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,440 as much now I think to my knowledge, and somebody can 230 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,640 correct me in the comments, looking for a wedge design. 231 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,800 Typically wedges are things you would put into the shoe, like 232 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:18,960 you can modify insoles. And there's a couple companies 233 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,360 actually where you can buy either posts or wedges to change 234 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,800 the insole. And the wedge basically puts 235 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,320 your foot in either an inverted or inverted position. 236 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,160 So actually not rotates, but moves, keeps it in the direction 237 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:31,680 of the frontal plane and keeps it there. 238 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,600 A post is something that doesn't necessarily change the position 239 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:36,600 of your foot. It's supposed to slow down 240 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:38,880 motion. So the New Balance 860 version 241 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:43,520 14 is one of the few shoes that actually has a medial wedge 242 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,520 where the lateral of the medial aspect is actually higher than 243 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:50,600 the lateral aspect and it kind of sits again at a little wedge 244 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,680 design. So your foot's going to sit set, 245 00:11:52,680 --> 00:11:55,680 like point it like pushed out a little bit ladder, which is 246 00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:57,360 great for a little bit. Yeah, inverted. 247 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,720 Yeah, it's a better, a better term, which is going to be great 248 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:01,600 for some people and horrendous for others. 249 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,480 So it depends on whether you need that. 250 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:05,920 Now, none of the shoes that we're going to talk about have 251 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,680 those two mechanisms. And like I said, they didn't 252 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,600 need to use to because there were plenty of lightweight 253 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,560 stability shoes, stability daily trainers and there were 254 00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:17,320 stability racing shoes. That's that's not as common. 255 00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:20,080 And when we saw the shoes from Hoco and Ultra that started 256 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:23,400 getting higher and higher stack height as you get taller, you 257 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,440 can't get away way with doing things like I'm holding up the 258 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,360 Puma Deviate Nitro Elite 3, which is a is a favorite of 259 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:33,320 Nathan shoe of Nathan. It's got a really narrow 260 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,640 midfoot, like the midfoot tapers really quick. 261 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,040 And the narrower a sole is the less stable it's going to be 262 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:40,880 because you have less to fall into. 263 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,880 So someone like myself that needs a little bit more midfoot 264 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,800 guidance, the Deviate Nitro 3 doesn't work as well for me. 265 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:51,080 Even with an A plate of a carbon plate in here that creates some 266 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,080 like torsional resistance, it's not enough for me. 267 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,240 When you start getting taller stack height, it's kind of like 268 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,760 you've got this teeter totter effect you there has to be 269 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,800 something there. So Hoka really started with the, 270 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:07,160 I guess, let me the top line or bucket type thing, as we call 271 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,280 side walls, where the foot had to be enveloped in it so it 272 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:14,000 didn't roll off the platform. And as you get super tall stack 273 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,960 height shoes, that's really important because the taller it 274 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,600 is, the less inherently unstable it is. 275 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:20,720 So you need to have some other mechanisms. 276 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:22,760 And I'm going to hold up something like the the Glycerin 277 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,960 Max, which from Brooks, which for me, it was a favorite stable 278 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,640 neutral shoe from last year. And David, and I might disagree 279 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,760 on this, but it has a lot of those mechanisms for those on 280 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,080 YouTube. The mid foot is extremely wide. 281 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,560 It does not taper at all. There are some pretty 282 00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:40,040 significant side walls, top line, bucket, whatever you're 283 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,320 going to call it on the medial and lateral aspects of the shoe 284 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,000 so that if you're rolling in a different direction, there is 285 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:46,960 resistance. The more material you have in 286 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,440 that area, the more resistance there is to that movement and it 287 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:54,080 can create a guidance or stability mechanism depending 288 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,760 and how you say that. Another thing that we almost 289 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,320 missed is lateral or medial flare. 290 00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:02,760 So and that refers to the midsole extending out beyond 291 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:04,360 where the shoe is. And so that's what I mentioned 292 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,560 with the Socrate Triumph 23, where in the past this shoe 293 00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:09,320 didn't work for me, it was so soft. 294 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,640 Now you have an extension for those on YouTube can see this. 295 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:17,400 The, the, the medial part of the heel actually extends further 296 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,480 the lateral side, which means if you land and you collapse 297 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:22,760 immediately, there's more material that resists it. 298 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,120 So we have side walls, which is a couple of the definitions for 299 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,160 sole flare which can resist movement as well as and the 300 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,640 sulfur is part of the wider midsole and all things that can 301 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:34,360 resist motion. Sometimes. 302 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,160 Sometimes. I've seen some shoes where that 303 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,600 will extend beyond the outsole coverage, yeah. 304 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,320 And then it doesn't do it as well or it can actually make it 305 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,960 more unstable is like if you have a lot of like someone like 306 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,480 me, if you have too much lateral flair that drives a medial and 307 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,360 it makes it feel unstable for me. 308 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,600 And different people have different different responses to 309 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,640 that. Yeah, I think that actually 310 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,160 leads into a pretty good follow up going over all of the 311 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:03,040 components that create a, you know, a stable neutral shoe. 312 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:08,400 I want to toss this question at you because you had held up the 313 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:14,560 ASICS Keanu earlier and so I'm going to lift up the ASICS Gel 314 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:18,520 Nimbus, the newest version and the ASICS Gel Keanu. 315 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,560 So when we look at the Nimbus, you've got a pretty wide 316 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,000 platform. You've got some pretty tall side 317 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,400 walls there, especially through the heel and the mid foot and a 318 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,040 pretty stiff platform, rocker platform. 319 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,000 It kind of checks the boxes you want for that stable neutral 320 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,000 category. You were kind of saying the 321 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,320 Keano is kind of like a stable neutral issue. 322 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,840 What differentiates the Nimbus from the Keano in this 323 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,320 situation? Not for a full review, but like 324 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,960 why is this the stability model and why is this the neutral 325 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,480 model? And for the listeners that don't 326 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,120 know the history of these shoes, the Nimbus is kind of the 327 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,680 premium training option, kind of a more plush neutral training 328 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:56,800 option. And the Keanu is kind of the 329 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,360 stability, you know, counterpart to that. 330 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:01,960 So they're both kind of the quote UN quote premium lineup, 331 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,400 but they both are pretty similar, but they're different 332 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:09,120 in a couple of ways. So just kind of drive home the 333 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,040 point like what is the differences here? 334 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,080 That's a great question. And Bach and I have actually 335 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,080 talked about this is like to the the major stability runners on 336 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:18,520 the team. We had a similar conversation 337 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,280 about the Mizuna wave horizon that like the the premium 338 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,720 stability market is changing. And the Keanu obviously went 339 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,320 through some massive changes in the past couple years where it 340 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,880 went from being like one of the last medial posted Jews to all 341 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:32,280 of a sudden this very different thing. 342 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,840 And IA 100% agree. The A6 Nimbus for me is a great 343 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,600 stable neutral shoe. It's got the wide mid foot. 344 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,600 It's got really good side walls. It's not in my opinion, and I 345 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,680 anybody disagrees with being comment below and I, I totally 346 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:47,600 am open to it. I don't think it's soft. 347 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:49,520 I think it's a little bit firmer, a little more 348 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:51,280 responsive. And I actually, it's probably 349 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,280 the one of the first Nimbuses that I've I've really liked, to 350 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,080 be honest. I think it's firmer than 351 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,440 previous Nimbuses. That's fair. 352 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:00,760 That's very fair. But I think it's probably still 353 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,240 is on the softer side. On the softer side, but it's 354 00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:07,880 nowhere near where the last two or even the previous Nimbus 355 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,040 were. So it's it's changed to a bit 356 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:11,800 more response. There's still a ton of it's 357 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,680 still a super Max stack height shoe, which is crazy to say with 358 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,880 the Nimbus, but I think the difference is the nimbus is 359 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:23,560 purely stable neutral and also meant as a neutral shoe, whereas 360 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:27,160 the Keanu has additional mechanisms to make it more a 361 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,560 stability shoe. Yes, still got the wider 362 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,200 platform yes, still got sidewalls so very similar to the 363 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,480 the nimbus. However, the differences are 364 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,600 there is some internal geometry that is actually setting your 365 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:42,480 foot up to resist motion. So both the internal part here 366 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,480 as well as this thing called the 4D guidance system, That's as 367 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,440 you bounce into it, it's bouncing you back out. 368 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,720 The Nimbus doesn't have that. It's more of a pure stable 369 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,520 neutral shoe. Whereas the Keanu is actually 370 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,440 set up to be a stability shoe. Now it is in my opinion and I 371 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,600 think ours more stable neutral than a stability. 372 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:01,760 The stability aggressive stability shoe was in the past 373 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:05,520 doesn't have opposed, but it is more the true stability shoe 374 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,120 because it is actually trying to influence frontal plane motion. 375 00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:11,280 What do you think? Is that the question that you 376 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,080 you you warned me about earlier? Yeah, yeah, I off there. 377 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,960 I told them I have a question that I'll just toss at you, but 378 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:18,360 I won't let them know the question. 379 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,080 I hope that you have another another like another banger 380 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:22,720 question, because I didn't think that was that bad those. 381 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,120 No, no, it's not. I think it's just it wasn't 382 00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:26,320 meant to put you on the hot seat. 383 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,840 It was just meant to clarify a couple of things because I do 384 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,920 think they both overlap in this situation and one is the 385 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:34,560 stability and one is the neutral. 386 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,160 So it's like, I think it's a good place to kind of 387 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,720 differentiate the two. I will say on the Keano too, 388 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:48,080 like not the Keano too, the Keano 232, yeah, the side walls 389 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:49,960 just feel a little bit more prominent as well. 390 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,200 I feel like a lot of those mechanisms that we kind of 391 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,920 talked about in the stable neutral category get overhauled 392 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,720 a little bit more in that model. So it just all around feels a 393 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,080 little bit more stable than the Nimbus, you know, even though 394 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,240 the Nimbus is a little bit more stable and neutral. 395 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,360 And this isn't meant to be a review of those two. 396 00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:08,760 I just felt like they were similar enough to at least 397 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,840 warrant bringing up and, you know, differentiate between the 398 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,200 stable, neutral and stability category in that situation. 399 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:16,560 Absolutely. I think that was a great 400 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,160 question. I'm now going, although I'm 401 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,440 slightly disappointed because I'm expecting more of a hot seat 402 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,040 question later. So I'll put that on you and see 403 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,960 if you can come up with one. Please don't do it about pizza 404 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,320 or like sports teams for those the the. 405 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,720 OGS are now sports teams. Yeah, yeah, just maybe shoe 406 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,960 related because the OG listeners are going to go, oh, math not 407 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:37,920 got anything. Also, Speaking of sports teams, 408 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,000 shout out Brooks for like this. This is like San Francisco 409 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,080 Giants colors for the ghost 17 for me. 410 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,080 Like this is perfect. This will match my jersey very 411 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,400 well. Yeah, I'm going to say this 412 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,000 again as like the first ghosts, I think I've liked that. 413 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:51,680 The colors are also pretty sweet too. 414 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:54,200 I'm actually excited. I haven't. 415 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,200 Yeah, I got to get some miles on these. 416 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,840 I've been so bogged down with the word testing and I genuinely 417 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,120 am excited because I really liked the glycerin. 418 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,680 So it'd be fun to kind of go down to the other counterpart of 419 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:05,000 it. Yep. 420 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,480 So. So let's start on midsole width 421 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,760 first, because we kind of alluded to some of the side 422 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,960 walls. So let's take a break and 423 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,720 deviate toward midsole width and and can we give some examples of 424 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,600 that? And the the most common place 425 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,640 that we often reference that is talking about the midfoot, but 426 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,840 the heel and the forefoot are also places where this makes an 427 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:25,800 impact. I think a lot of shoes now 428 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,840 typically tend to have a wider forefoot, just it not, not a 429 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:32,680 wide like upper fit, but the there's a usually a lot more 430 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,960 soul flare and width to the sole in the fore foot. 431 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,600 So generally we're a little bit more focused on the heel and the 432 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,800 midfoot. So talk a little bit about what 433 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:42,680 that looks like and do we have some good examples? 434 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,120 I've got some good ones and we talked about the Glycerin Max, 435 00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:46,960 which I think we might disagree on, but. 436 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,280 I actually don't disagree on the glycerin Max. 437 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,680 I think that might actually bring in another component that 438 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:54,280 might be worth looking into as well. 439 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:59,200 And some of it might be more personal preference, but is kind 440 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:04,600 of like how firm or soft is that foam and that DNA tuned, right? 441 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,960 DNA tuned. DNA tuned midsole and the large 442 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,440 cell version of it in that glycerin Max. 443 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:15,560 It is so soft and bouncy. I mean, it's like one of the 444 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,080 softest things I've ever put on my feet. 445 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,320 And I can see why people really like that shoe. 446 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,280 And I understand it. It's just for my own personal 447 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,680 mechanics. It hurts my foot when my foot 448 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:32,640 isn't something that unstable, but like it's only unstable in 449 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,200 the sense that I feel like my intrinsics are working, but my 450 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,600 foot feels solid, right? Like like I don't feel like I'm 451 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,760 going to turn my ankle. I don't feel like I'm going to 452 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:42,760 fall off the platform. Like the shoe is solid. 453 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:44,920 It checks all those boxes like we talked about. 454 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,120 But that durometer is a little soft for me. 455 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,880 Whereas like I think I talked about it on that review that I 456 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,360 did with the glycerin and glycerin is right over here. 457 00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:56,560 Might as well grab it with the new glycerin 22, right Yeah, 22. 458 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,800 This one uses both large and small cells, so and it's DNA 459 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:02,840 tuned. So it's definitely softer than 460 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,400 previous glycerin models. Definitely plush, but it feels a 461 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,640 little bit more structured to me in the actual mid cell 462 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,760 standpoint and there's some basic soul flaring, you know, 463 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,160 but for the most part it still runs pretty neutral. 464 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,760 You know, like you can kind of see how it tapers off into the 465 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,720 midfoot there a little bit like this isn't that classic wide 466 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,560 example we're talking about right now, but it does enough 467 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,120 other things well that kind of get it close to being in that 468 00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:29,960 category. I think I still toss it in the 469 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:34,120 neutral category versus the stable neutral, but I don't 470 00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:35,680 know. I think the way they did the 471 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,360 foam on this just agrees with me more. 472 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,920 But I can appreciate the glycerin Max too. 473 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,480 I just don't think it's the shoe for me or glycerin Max, sorry. 474 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:50,040 Yeah, I will say the heel is pretty soft, although the lower 475 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,880 drop, whatever reason, this shoe really got me up my toes, which 476 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,520 is also why I think the outsole lasted so well. 477 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,680 Like I have 120 miles. This is my left side. 478 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,160 For those who want to know me as the. 479 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,320 Destroyer I didn't RIP this up at all and I I. 480 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,240 How many more? Smiles in this I think 120 and 481 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,000 there's like literally indestructible then yeah, it's 482 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,320 indestructible. But I also think that's because 483 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:16,160 it's so low drop and will lower and it was so soft on the heel 484 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:20,200 that I think I started avoiding it so it again and even if I did 485 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,720 get there, I was able to transition quick enough and 486 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:27,080 possibly knowing how hard I land on shoes, I may just be crushing 487 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,520 through all that soft stuff or some of that maybe compresses it 488 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,840 slower might perceive it as softer. 489 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:33,520 And that's a different conversation about perception. 490 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:39,040 But it is true that softer shoes usually are less stable, right. 491 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,960 Like the New Balance 1080, which has been a shoe that I see all 492 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,840 over the place. It's a great shoe in my opinion, 493 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,800 that's the softest shoe I think I've run in a while. 494 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,640 It's not going to be stable neutral. 495 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,440 Yeah, the 1080, it's not going to be stable neutral just 496 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,400 because it's so inherently soft that you're going to compare 497 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,840 even if there's side walls even a little wider, you're just 498 00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:59,120 going to roll through that thing. 499 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,800 So you are absolutely right. Sole, mid sole. 500 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,280 You want to call it stiffness, firmness, compliance. 501 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,600 Or whatever you want. Durometer, whatever term you 502 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,480 want to use that things that are a teeny bit firmer are usually 503 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:12,680 going to be a little bit more stable. 504 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,320 Compliance, yeah. Blinds, Yeah, Keep. 505 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:16,600 It consistent with the literature ish. 506 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:17,480 Sure. Yeah. 507 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:18,600 Ish. Yeah. 508 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,840 It's not the direct translation, but. 509 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,040 Durometer, to be fair, isn't quite the right thing because 510 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:24,120 you. It's not either. 511 00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:27,600 You measure durometer from like often the lateral side of the 512 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,560 shoe, which is. Not actually higher vertical. 513 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:30,680 Yeah. So, yeah. 514 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,480 So compliance is the better term, although there are some 515 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,240 challenges. There's some challenges to use 516 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,400 in that term with compression rates and some other stuff that 517 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,320 we're not getting into because we're tangenting off anyway. 518 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,680 Compliance softness can also influence, but what about soul? 519 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,400 Yeah, and I brought this company up earlier, but I feel like one 520 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,880 of the classic examples is the Hoka Bondi. 521 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,920 I feel like they've always done a good job of that. 522 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,200 And you look at it even just aesthetically, like that thing 523 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:01,120 is super wide, you know, and just very wide platform, good 524 00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:03,840 side walls. You feel pretty secure on that 525 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,560 platform. We talked about the Nimbus. 526 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,240 You know, I think they both are good examples of wide platforms 527 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,200 and then I think shoes that probably are worth mentioning 528 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,160 that aren't whoa, what you got there. 529 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,920 This is the Hoka Mafate X. We're not talking about trail 530 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,760 shoes because most of. Our I just saw Vibra mega crip 531 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,720 outsole and I but I didn't see the other part of the shoe. 532 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,960 So I, I wanted to give some reasoning and reiterate this, 533 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,920 that I think as shoe companies get taller, they have to make 534 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:35,760 it. You can't have a narrow sole 535 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,240 when you have a shoe that has a like a stack height that's 536 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,240 anywhere from 40 to 50mm, like that's too tall. 537 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,120 So the Mafate X is a great example where it has to be wide, 538 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,200 right? You have to have massive side 539 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,320 walls or you're going to roll your ankle on the trail. 540 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,240 It needs to be a tank of a shoe. And I think you're right. 541 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:53,760 The Bonde is a great example of it. 542 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,840 It's being it's actually not that the stack heights not that 543 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:01,880 tall. Compared to it's like 41, yeah. 544 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,440 Which 42 the? Nimbus is taller, yeah, I think 545 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,840 it's 4142. Do not quote us on that, so 546 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,480 somebody can correct us, but I'm pretty sure the Nimbus is has a 547 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,520 taller stack height now. But regardless, some of those 548 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,280 elements of, OK, if we're this tall, you need to to create this 549 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,920 to make, to bring it back to not being unstable and to make it 550 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,640 even neutral, that's required. So the Bondi is a great example 551 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,280 of of a shoe that's always had that because it's always been a 552 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,120 bit taller. It's just not the tallest by a 553 00:26:30,120 --> 00:26:33,080 long shot anymore. I think a couple crazy shoes too 554 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,040 that are like close, but just not quite like where it's like 555 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,800 it's wider than the normal neutral shoe, but it's not quite 556 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,560 super wide. But I look at something like the 557 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,960 880 and I look at something like the Nova Blast, where like, yes, 558 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,520 they taper a little bit, but they're still decently wide 559 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,400 platforms. Dude how did I forget? 560 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,240 I feel bad forgetting about the 8. 561 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,880 The 880 is a massively stable. It is a massively stable neutral 562 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,440 shoe. I think what that means, they 563 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,880 combine the components, yeah, none of them are overhauled, but 564 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,440 they're subtly present in all of the things that we've talked. 565 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,280 About yes, it they, they do the, the top line or the bucket 566 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,600 sidewall, they do that extremely well. 567 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,760 They have the wire midfoot. It's also, we didn't, we forgot 568 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,880 to mention stiffness, right? We talked about compliance or 569 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,080 the softness, but also the general either the torsional 570 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,680 stiffness is also something that will add to something being 571 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,280 stable neutral that like anything, the stiffness can also 572 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,600 go too far where it becomes too stiff to function. 573 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,000 So finding the optimal level for you. 574 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,800 People usually think stiffness like plates and stuff being 575 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,360 front to back or the sagittal plane. 576 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,600 There's also torsional stiffness that can resist frontal plane 577 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,760 motion, and that can also be too stiff and be irritating to some 578 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,160 people. Nathan's a great example of 579 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,320 someone who if the shoe is too torsionally stiff, it tends to 580 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,240 bug him. So that's a great. 581 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,120 Yeah. And that they did a great job 582 00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:54,360 with adding all the elements just enough to make the 880. 583 00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:56,840 Probably it's a it's not. Probably it is a great stable 584 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,040 neutral shoe. Yeah. 585 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:00,160 So that's kind of when I think of width. 586 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,080 Those are a couple of the examples that I think of. 587 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,200 There's definitely more out there, but yeah, you're holding 588 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:06,080 up to Ghost Max 3. Right. 589 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,880 I would in terms of not looking at performance trainers, which 590 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:10,800 we'll talk about in just a second, there are a few good 591 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:12,760 ones out there. Another one that comes to mind 592 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,000 that does all these things really well is the Brooks Ghost 593 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,560 Max 3. And I'm showing the outsole 594 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,480 right now where and it's always done this wider sole throughout 595 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,880 midfoot that doesn't taper some pretty significant side walls, 596 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,040 pretty like tall stack height. And it's pretty like Torsionly 597 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:30,120 stiff. There's not a ton of 598 00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:32,240 flexibility. Thank goodness Version 3 is much 599 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,680 more rocket and much smoother than the previous versions. 600 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,880 Our previous version, because, I mean, it's well known I didn't 601 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,440 like version 2 enough that Brooke, some people from Brooks 602 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,400 are like, hey, I, I heard you didn't like that. 603 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,480 I'm like, yeah, no, I, I did not because the heel bevel always. 604 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,080 But it's got all the things you would want, plus some sight, 605 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,400 some soul flare that just keeps it really nice and stable 606 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,280 neutral. And what's unique about this 607 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,240 shoe and the Saucony Echelon, which hasn't been updated for a 608 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,400 while, What has it been like a few years since we reviewed 609 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,240 that? But that's another shoe that 610 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,120 that's stable neutral along with this one. 611 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,480 What's unique about these is that they're really made for 612 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,280 people with either the orthotic needs. 613 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,240 These take orthotics really well, and the arch is really 614 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:14,600 low. So people that have flatter feet 615 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,800 but don't do well with arch support, this is a really great 616 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,960 shoe that creates that stable neutral ride without poking up 617 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,760 into their art. So another classic stable 618 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,160 neutral shoe that Brooks really did a good job with in the third 619 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,160 version to make it more runnable versus version 2 is much more 620 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,400 like the Dyad where I didn't feel like it was very runnable. 621 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,440 It's a great walking shoe, but it wasn't very runnable in my 622 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:35,440 opinion. Nice. 623 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,800 Sweet. So lots of stable neutral 624 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,920 training options out there. What do we have in terms of like 625 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,200 the performance category? Because that's the other area 626 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,240 that a lot of us with stability and struggle with. 627 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,280 Because if we talk about super shoes and performance shoes, a 628 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,840 lot of them are using a lot of these softer foams that are 629 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,240 inherently unstable. And yeah, they use plates, but 630 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,680 they tend to have narrower platforms to be more aggressive. 631 00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:02,960 Like I was holding up the fast R3 and this this is not as 632 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,240 stable digital shoe at all. There's no like I'm hanging off 633 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,080 the medial side because there's nothing there. 634 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,200 It's a it's got, it's cut out yet super light, it's super 635 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,600 fast, responsive, but you know, there's not as much towards 636 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,240 originally. It's all front to back, very 637 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,280 narrow platform. What do we have? 638 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,160 We and this is a super shoot. So what do we have? 639 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,760 We're talking about like even performance trainers. 640 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,120 What does that look like? Yeah, it's a tricky 1. 641 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,680 I think when you look at performance trainers, you almost 642 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,120 have to pick the lesser of the evils as you start getting more 643 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,800 and more towards. And evil isn't a great word, 644 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,080 right? Less and less of the stable. 645 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,760 If we can get a nice adjective for a stable that doesn't sound 646 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:46,440 horrible, you get a little bit further and further away from it 647 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,440 as you get closer and closer to performance. 648 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,960 That's partially by nature, because usually performance 649 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,640 shoes tend to be a little bit lighter, tend to be a little bit 650 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,080 more resilient, and to be just a little bit. 651 00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,920 Everything about it is being meant to be quicker, right? 652 00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:03,360 So like a lot of the added fluff that can go into guidance and 653 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,920 stability and all the things that we just talked about tend 654 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,880 to get dropped. But that's not the case with all 655 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,760 of the shoes. Now there are some shoes that 656 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:17,240 are doing pretty well with that. But again, you might be taking 657 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,040 you a slightly softer and bouncier compliant midsole, but 658 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:22,240 getting a little bit more guidance. 659 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,000 Those are the two that I was thinking of. 660 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,360 So you have the SC Trainer and then you have the Super Blast 2 661 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,040 for those who are listening and for also for those who are 662 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:32,600 listening. I did not say the company's New 663 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,240 Balance SC Trainer, the newest version and the ASIC Super Blast 664 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,280 2. And what are what are we on now? 665 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:44,800 SE Trainer 43333. Yeah, and both great options. 666 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,440 You know, you got a lot of soul flaring in the SE trainer, the 667 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,680 fuel cells very soft, but you have that plate to kind of help 668 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,240 stabilize it. You got a wide platform and then 669 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:54,840 that decoupling through the midline. 670 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,200 I think I actually like it. I think it kind of helps you 671 00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:58,960 collapse and kind of center yourself. 672 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,800 Now the Super Blast 2 is a slightly different. 673 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:03,960 I do have the Super Blast 2 on me. 674 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:05,920 I didn't know we're going to talk about performance shoes, 675 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:11,920 but this one's a good example in that the foam is a little bit 676 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,240 more, it's a little less compliant, but it's very 677 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,080 resilient. So it's a very bouncy foam. 678 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,520 The flight foam Turbo Plus that was in the Meta Speed series, 679 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,280 the previous Meta Speed series and just a bit of Blast Plus on 680 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,200 the bottom, but wide platform, tall side walls and a little bit 681 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,040 more structure to that foam. It doesn't decompress quite as 682 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,240 much, so there's no plate, but there doesn't really need to be. 683 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,000 You know, it's definitely like a super rich when you go to try 684 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,560 and move this thing like. I will also, yeah. 685 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,320 It's like when you try to go really fast, but if you're 686 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,040 trying to go like controlled fast, it actually is pretty 687 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,200 nice. I will say I I messed this up 688 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,120 multiple times or I think I have reference to be like, oh, 689 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,480 there's a plate here. There's no plate in the Super 690 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,360 blast yet. I would also say it's one of the 691 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,920 stiffer shoes on the market just because of how tall the stack 692 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:58,640 right is and it just does not flex. 693 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:03,240 So yeah, and David, you hit it on the head like wider sole, 694 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,160 aggressive side walls or aggressive bucket. 695 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,560 So you're really sitting in the shoe and not soft, very bouncy. 696 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,000 And oh, Congrats to Nathan. By the way, today is June 1st 697 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,280 and he just ran 1/2 marathon this morning. 698 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,000 And through all of his injury kind of struggles, that's I 699 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,560 think the longest he's run in a while. 700 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,080 Actually, it did. Great. 701 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,920 Yeah, I was more focused on trolling him than I was on 702 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:26,840 congratulating him. That's my bad. 703 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,520 Yeah, I think Nate, if you're listening to this shout out on 704 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,800 your half marathon, that's. Awesome, I think that is the. 705 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,280 Longest run he's done. Yeah, and so that he did it in 706 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:36,920 the Super Blast, which I think is a great choice. 707 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,680 What's unique about like you know, we talked about the SC 708 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,600 Trainer version 3. It's a great shoe, right? 709 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,320 I found it very firm because my foot hits that plate pretty 710 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,400 aggressively. But in terms of the the fuel 711 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,120 cell foam is really nice and bouncy. 712 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:50,640 It is great for a variety of runs. 713 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,880 I think it's more stable than the the in terms of like the 714 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,720 width just because of that decoupling the the guidance 715 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,960 group here, it's really wide. There's some good side fault 716 00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:04,200 walls and it's super stiff, but it's not as light like the Super 717 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,840 blast is still the lightest of these super trainers. 718 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,760 Yeah, it's kind. Of crazy what they got that down 719 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,600 to. I, I think it's one of the 720 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,600 lightest shoes that really is truly stable neutral. 721 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,840 So a lot of people with stabilities that want to race 722 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,880 what's like 8.3 ounces. It's in the place, yeah, it's. 723 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,080 I don't know exactly what the number is, but. 724 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,199 It, it's lighted up that it makes a great racing shoe for a 725 00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:27,960 lot of people and, and Nathan is a great example of this that for 726 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,800 those who maybe find super shoes too aggressive and too unstable 727 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,080 over longer distances, 1/2 a full marathon distance, really, 728 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:35,520 really great option because of it. 729 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,000 It's not meant as a stability shoe, by the way, but it's 730 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,080 design makes it like that. And so a very good option that I 731 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:46,679 suggest all the time because we really don't have like truly 732 00:34:46,679 --> 00:34:49,679 stable neutral racing shoes. We have a, we have a post on the 733 00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:52,360 website right now and I think I've done a video on this and 734 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,840 the only stability or like not the stability, but only like the 735 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,120 closest thing to stable neutral shoes and I don't have them with 736 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:02,440 me is the socketing endorphin pro 4 and the Hoco rocket X2 737 00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:05,800 because they both don't have narrowed midfoots. 738 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:10,080 They have some decent side walls and they're stiff enough that 739 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,000 they do function as stable neutral. 740 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,000 So it's, those are shoes that I've been able to take for 741 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:19,440 longer distances, but and what and they're not super soft as 742 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:20,400 well. They're tending to be more 743 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,760 aggressive. But the, you know, performance 744 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,880 shoes for the the runner with stability needs just not we 745 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,200 don't really have any. I think especially we have the 746 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,320 Hyperion GTS 2, but it's not a super shoe. 747 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,320 It's a, it's a more moderate stack tight shoe. 748 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,760 It's a great shoe. It's a it's a phenomenal shoe. 749 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:41,040 But if somebody wants that super foam and hopefully Brooks, maybe 750 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,040 you change something with the Hyperion GTS. 751 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:48,680 Actually a GTS like super shoe hybrid model would be pretty 752 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,800 sweet actually. I'm not going to lie. 753 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:55,800 Even if it was like high set, like low 8 ounces, yeah, that 754 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,200 would still be pretty awesome. Yeah, just like put some DNA 755 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,120 gold in there and. Just finally, I still need to 756 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,080 try DNA gold. Finally excited. 757 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,960 About it though, prove me wrong that no one's ever going to make 758 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,240 a stability super shoe, but that's a different story. 759 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,640 Super racing shoe. But yeah, there's though that's 760 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,000 kind of it. And so again that goes into we 761 00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:18,160 have all these things of of Meccans going well, I have some 762 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,320 stability needs. There's not as many shoes to do 763 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,440 this, how do I do this? And these are some of the great 764 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,040 examples, right. So we've talked about side walls 765 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,320 or there's some couple other terms we've talked about with 766 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,000 midsole width, especially in the mid foot and the heel. 767 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,200 We've talked about some torsional stiffness. 768 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,560 We've talked a little bit about, we haven't talked as much about 769 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,160 flare. Yeah, yeah. 770 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,160 I figured we'd go by the components, right? 771 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:43,640 Yeah. So we had our width, we had our 772 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,480 kind of guide bucket, side wall talk and flare. 773 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,960 So flare being an extension, I wish I could actually show. 774 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,040 There is a prototype that I ran in recently and I was like, oh, 775 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,600 I was actually some pretty good flyer on this thing, but I can't 776 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,360 show that because of obvious reasons. 777 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:03,800 But yeah, when we talk about sole flaring, we're talking 778 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,800 about shoes that have an extension beyond the base of the 779 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:09,760 shoe. And so when you look at the 780 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,320 Bondi, here's the upper, here's where it fits, and there's just 781 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,960 a slight little extension both medially and laterally through 782 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,200 that forefoot, also in the heel kind of widens out a little bit. 783 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,160 And that also goes slightly beyond the outsole as well. 784 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,400 So that's what we're talking about. 785 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,400 I think the Aura actually does a pretty good job of that there as 786 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:27,840 well, especially in the forefoot. 787 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,000 You see it in the heel as well. Now, this is meant to be a 788 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,640 stability shoe. Again, a lot of these things 789 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,960 we're talking about are things that help make a shoe more 790 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,280 stable. And then the stability shoes 791 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,680 usually lean into it a little bit more. 792 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,840 But I think for the sake of making an example, you could see 793 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,600 quite a bit when I hold it up here. 794 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,040 And for the listeners, if you can't see, I'm kind of holding 795 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:49,640 like a vertical view here of the shoe. 796 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,560 And you can see how that heel extends both medially and 797 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:57,000 laterally and in the forefoot. And you can see it gently in a 798 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,480 lot of other shoes too. So like in the Sockney ride, the 799 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,320 forefoot has some but not quite as much in the heel and you are 800 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,200 holding up the Hoka Mach 6? Yes. 801 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:08,640 I didn't know you had that color way. 802 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,200 What is that color way dude? I don't know how to like a green 803 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,080 tan tan. No, it's like tan. 804 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:18,160 The reason I'm holding up the mock the mock 6 is that even 805 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,680 though it didn't quite fit me, it's definitely a little bit 806 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,840 snug and short. So I would suggest to half size 807 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,000 up. It's actually really good stable 808 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,560 neutral wise because Dave was talking about this, there's some 809 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,840 really good sole flare in the heel as well as the forefoot. 810 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,880 There's also really great side walls in this shoe as well. 811 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,000 And the midsole is not only just a little bit wider, it does 812 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,880 something really interesting where there's they actually fill 813 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,560 the midfoot in on the medial side and cut a little bit of the 814 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,160 lateral side out. This is not going to work for 815 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,680 those who have any lateral stability needs because it's 816 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:52,320 going to take you out more lateral. 817 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,640 But those that have medial stability needs, it actually 818 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,200 creates just this mild. Again, we talked about stable 819 00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,080 neutral. We're talking about mild methods 820 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:00,720 that facilitate motion One Direction. 821 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,120 This is another thing where you can see cutouts put into the 822 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,800 midsole that might direct people in different directions. 823 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:08,840 And so for me, those are medial stability knees. 824 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,960 The Mach X, the Mach 6 actually works really, really well. 825 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:17,120 The Mach X2 actually does the same thing and my pair is out of 826 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,480 reach, but it also does the exact same thing where we'll 827 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,520 take you a little bit lateral. So those with medial stability 828 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,000 knees will find that also to be a stable neutral shoe. 829 00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:28,000 But there are simple. This is a great example of 830 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,600 another performance options that you might not have thought would 831 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,680 technically qualify as stable neutral, but it's got enough 832 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,160 combination to be able able to do that. 833 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:36,720 Do you have any other ones that have the cut out? 834 00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:39,720 Now you have to be careful with the cut out because that can 835 00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:42,080 also go the opposite direction. I mentioned those. 836 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,080 When we talk about stable neutral, we are not just talking 837 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,800 about medial stability. We also like when we talk about 838 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,640 this term, guidance usually means we're trying to keep 839 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,000 people centered as opposed to stability often can mean, hey, 840 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,880 we're pushing somebody in one, One Direction, trying to slow 841 00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,240 somebody down in one way. So we a lot of shoes right now 842 00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:02,080 are kind of sticking to the more guidance principle. 843 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:03,400 We're not trying to pull anybody out. 844 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:05,920 Or another. But we still have some stuff 845 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:11,520 that really goes, like the Mock X, the Mock X2, the Mach 6 that 846 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,920 I just talked about. Hoka has been doing this a lot. 847 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,360 The Hoka X12, Point 9, Yellow X1. 848 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,520 Both just different. One version one, yeah, had this 849 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,640 really significantly driving you lateral. 850 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,520 The new one, version 2 point O actually drives you really 851 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,200 media, which is why Andrea liked it and I didn't. 852 00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:32,920 So yeah, that might drive you that direction. 853 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,120 So there are other options. What did the show may think? 854 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,000 Oh. Takumi Suns done it forever. 855 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,800 Yeah, the the Hyperion Max 3 from Brooks, which is a good one 856 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,160 up here for those you can see. I can't can't reach reach it yet 857 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:48,880 is also one that has a medial cut out so those that have 858 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,360 lateral stability needs that actually might work. 859 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,440 And by some miracle that shoes work great for me on long runs. 860 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,240 I still don't know why. It's like a Cielo X1 2.0 that's 861 00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:01,520 beefed up a little bit and a little bit more friendly from a 862 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,160 transition standpoint, yeah. Yeah. 863 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,640 Are we missing any mechanisms of of definition of stable neutral 864 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,360 or is there any other shoes you want to go? 865 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,920 Hey this is a really great example of this. 866 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:15,000 Actually I have one. I think one other thing we we 867 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,760 alluded to it, but sometimes as you get higher and higher up in 868 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,600 the stack height, inherently it gets a little bit more and more 869 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:26,040 unstable, right? What about going down in stack 870 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:27,760 height? There are some shoes that are in 871 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,520 the moderate stack height categories that can help with 872 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,000 that. And I think of shoes like let's 873 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:38,840 say the Brooks Hyperion, Brooks Hyperion 2G, PSGPSGTSGTS and 874 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,760 even going even lower than that, I think of something like, 875 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,480 again, this is a very neutral shoe, but inherently will be a 876 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,160 little bit more stable than those really high stack shoes. 877 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,760 I think it's something like the Topo Cyclone and some of those 878 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,040 other shoes. And again, very neutral, but 879 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,000 it's much lower to the ground. You're going to have a lot more 880 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:56,480 ground feel. You're not going to feel quite 881 00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,960 as unstable. So that's another kind of caveat 882 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,800 to the stable neutral category where it's like a lot of the 883 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,160 shoes in the market are high stack, but as you go lower in 884 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,040 stack, it actually is going to feel a little bit more grounded 885 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,160 because it is. So I think that's just one thing 886 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,560 that we can bring up where even though the other shoes that 887 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,600 might be a little lower in stack may not have all of those other 888 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,920 components that we just talked about, they're going to feel a 889 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:22,720 little bit more stable just because they're a little bit 890 00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:24,080 lower to the ground. I agree. 891 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,720 And again, it's not going to give you the stability or the 892 00:42:27,720 --> 00:42:29,760 guidance back as we talked about, like you're not going to 893 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,000 see side walls as much because the shoes too low to the ground. 894 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,040 You may not even see a shoe as wide. 895 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,560 You know, the shoe that I was talking about that I'm also 896 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:39,800 testing right now, I just haven't got to run in as much is 897 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,200 the Topo Fly Light 6. Do you have a pair of those? 898 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,360 I don't. So I think those might gotten 899 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,000 Sensei Andrea. Likes those. 900 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:48,840 Yeah, she loves them. Yeah. 901 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,640 And I've been where I did a short run of them and then I've 902 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,520 been wearing them walking and in clinic a ton. 903 00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:58,040 And I'm like, oh, like this shouldn't feel this good, but it 904 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,280 is. It's much lower stack, much 905 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,360 closer to the ground. It's a 3mm drop. 906 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,120 And I'm like, why am I able to walk in this all day? 907 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,280 There's not really sidewalls. Yeah, the sole, the midfoot is 908 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,720 wider for sure. There's not a ton of soul flare. 909 00:43:10,720 --> 00:43:12,960 But you're right, because you're close to the ground, you're 910 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:17,200 going to get more proprioceptive feedback and can easily not 911 00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,600 kinesiophobic. What is the term I'm looking for 912 00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,120 kinesthetic. Yeah, you have proprioception 913 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,400 and kines Proprioception and kinesthesia is proprioception is 914 00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:31,200 joint sense statically, kinesthesia is joint sense in 915 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,640 motion. You're going to get more input 916 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:35,680 into your system which your body's going to be able to react 917 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,440 better and quicker to be able to stabilize you. 918 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,440 Whereas when you're in a tall stack height shoot that's much 919 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,520 softer. It takes a little bit more for 920 00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,360 your body to react to that in terms of positional changes 921 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:49,440 because you're and not getting as much impact or input into 922 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,360 your system. Which is why we have a great 923 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,440 episode that we did talking about the science behind midsole 924 00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:58,120 cushioning, where, yeah, we actually know that softer shoes, 925 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,880 even though they're more cushion, actually may have 926 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:05,240 greater impact on joint and create greater internal forces 927 00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:08,240 in the joint just because you're landing harder because you can't 928 00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:12,000 pick up how to like, you know, be a little, you know, protect 929 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:13,720 yourself a little more and react a little bit more. 930 00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:16,360 So joint stiffness goes up. Yeah, your joint stiffness. 931 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:18,120 Yeah. So 100% agree. 932 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,680 A little lower stack shoe can certainly also be oddly stable 933 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:23,600 neutral, despite not having nearly as many of these 934 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:25,720 mechanisms. But we don't have a lot of those 935 00:44:25,720 --> 00:44:27,640 shoes. Most shoes are, you know, Max 936 00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:29,840 stack height, which is also why, thank goodness, you're seeing a 937 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,480 lot more of these mechanisms integrated. 938 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,160 Usually, not always. And if you want to talk 939 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:40,600 specifically 4 foot and lower to mid stack, yeah. 940 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,080 Newton does exist. They do exist. 941 00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:44,840 Poor Newton. Of course they exist. 942 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:46,680 Yeah, talk about that. No, but they do that. 943 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,600 Well, that's like one of the things that like, if you need 944 00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:54,120 that, that is definitely a shoe that people respond really well 945 00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,160 to or a shoe company. Yeah, do Yeah. 946 00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,520 So Newton does a great job. Their forefoot is usually very 947 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:02,160 flared. They've also got a lot of 948 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,920 stiffness up front just because they have a little bit more of 949 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,040 their lugs up here. And that really usually pivots 950 00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:09,400 you forward. That's probably the other thing 951 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,560 is that we surprisingly, we're remembering this as we go 952 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,240 through this. By the way, we don't usually 953 00:45:14,240 --> 00:45:17,920 plan these episodes, but this is usually like all on the spot, 954 00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,400 like, hey, we do it live. We don't we don't we just go, 955 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,680 hey, let's talk about this and lecture about but the geometry 956 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,480 of issue can also influence is a lot of shoes that are rocker 957 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:27,720 typically going to roll you forward. 958 00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:29,840 Newton does something interesting where they have 959 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,920 these lugs that you pivot right off of that does a good job of 960 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,000 keeping you forward. It doesn't allow a lot of 961 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,920 frontal plane motion just because of the wider shape can 962 00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,360 move forward. Yeah, especially the four foot. 963 00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,080 So they do. Do they still have like what is 964 00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,160 it the speed S they still have? The they have the distance S the 965 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:47,920 the racing model. SI. 966 00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,800 Was going to bring that up earlier, but you usually give me 967 00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,120 a little finger wag every time I do because it's not a super 968 00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,720 quote UN quote racing shoe. It's fair. 969 00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,720 It's not, so I'm going to. Look it up real quick. 970 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,920 It is technically racing shoe, I'll give you that, but it's not 971 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,240 a super. My claim has been a super racing 972 00:46:07,240 --> 00:46:09,440 shoot, stability racing shoot, but the. 973 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,960 Fusion Gravity. Carbon Racer. 974 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,280 The Carbon Racer. That's not that. 975 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,280 But yeah, it's a much softer foam. 976 00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,680 You're right. Distance 13. 977 00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:21,240 Now where's the series? I don't see the series I. 978 00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:23,880 Don't know, I thought they may have discontinued though, didn't 979 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:25,680 they? They may have. 980 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,480 Oh no. So yeah, for those Newton is an 981 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:30,040 option. If you can handle lowers, 982 00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,160 relatively lower stack shoes, and super low drop shoes, you 983 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,080 can land. Yeah, motion and kismet still 984 00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:35,920 exist. They. 985 00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,440 They tend to be a little bit more stable, neutral in the 986 00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,120 forefoot. The midfoot and heel would 987 00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,000 typically be a little bit neural because per them that's not as 988 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,400 important. But they also do have medially 989 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,160 posted stability rate like lighter shoes. 990 00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:52,320 So that's an option that often doesn't get reference. 991 00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,480 You just have to realize, and David, you are right, they they 992 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:57,960 technically can't have racing models that have medial 993 00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,880 stability, but they are very aggressive and very different 994 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,960 than a lot of the models on the market because there's so low a 995 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:08,400 drop and so much close to the ground that time to get to that 996 00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:09,920 and it got used to it. Absolutely. 997 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,480 But it's a pretty big contrast to what most people are training 998 00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,800 in now. So that's my only hesitation 999 00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:18,360 with that. Yeah, But yeah. 1000 00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:21,480 It's a fair hesitation. Dang, we got, we got through 1001 00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,960 some good shoes today. That's a good swathe of things 1002 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,320 that have have gone through. So again, the reason we talk 1003 00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,560 about stable neutral is we're not seeing as many stability 1004 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,040 shoes on the market. Fortunately, there's been a 1005 00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,480 little twist recently where companies are putting some 1006 00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:37,880 effort into their stability shoes. 1007 00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,880 So there are some options, but especially when it comes to the 1008 00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,520 majority of things and having a ton of things for the number of 1009 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:46,240 shoes that are out there, this is not as many stability shoes 1010 00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:48,760 as it used to be, and there's certainly not any performance 1011 00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,120 and not many performance ones outside of the few that we 1012 00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,080 mentioned. That's where stable neutral 1013 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,360 comes in for those who either need some mild stability or 1014 00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:57,640 those who have neutral mechanics going. 1015 00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,520 I just like having a little bit more structure on my long runs 1016 00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:02,920 or when I fatigue. That's where stable neutral can 1017 00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:04,480 come in. You can find this through side 1018 00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,840 walls, through wider midfoot or wider soles, through maybe some 1019 00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,520 torsional stiffness, through some geometry stuff like a 1020 00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:16,000 better rocker profile. You can find it through maybe a 1021 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,200 little bit like less compliant, right? 1022 00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,840 There's lots of things. It's never just one thing. 1023 00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,920 It's usually the combination of a lot of factors. 1024 00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,920 So the reason why I say that is when you're, if you know you 1025 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,760 need this, when you're looking at a shoe, don't just look at 1026 00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,480 one factor because the culmination of all those things 1027 00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:35,320 together and you uniquely how you respond, because everybody 1028 00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,200 responds a little bit differently to shoes. 1029 00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,120 And we know that, which is why we always try to have as many 1030 00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:42,480 reviewers on as possible per shoe because we know that 1031 00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,040 different people are different. And you know, that's why we have 1032 00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,000 entire episodes where we just spend the entire time arguing 1033 00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:50,160 because we have different opinions. 1034 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:52,920 So when you are looking for things, what we're hoping is 1035 00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,040 figure out what works for you. And the only way to know that is 1036 00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,040 you've got to put some stuff on and see what happens. 1037 00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,720 And then as you understand the mechanisms that work for you, 1038 00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:04,080 we're hoping you can identify those goes, oh, wider midfoot, 1039 00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:06,280 better sidewall there. That may work for me. 1040 00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,400 Let me, I think I might be able to test that out. 1041 00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,760 So that's why we do this. We're in the same boat as you. 1042 00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:12,960 We've had to learn over the years what works for us was 1043 00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:16,560 doesn't we're in a very, very, very, very lucky position to get 1044 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:17,960 a bunch of stuff that we can test. 1045 00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:20,960 And sometimes it's good and sometimes it doesn't work with 1046 00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,360 our mechanics, which we do get injured occasionally. 1047 00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:25,400 Thank goodness for physical therapists so we can fix that 1048 00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:27,560 quickly. But we do this because we want 1049 00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:29,080 to help you figure out what works best for you. 1050 00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,160 And we are learning and sharing that with you. 1051 00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,080 And as always, want to make sure this helps so you can find us 1052 00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:35,680 any any last things. I do. 1053 00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:37,160 I have one wild question for you all. 1054 00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:38,520 Right. Oh, you got the wild. 1055 00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:40,080 Question. I got the wild question. 1056 00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:44,080 So this is going to be kind of A twist on a classic game question 1057 00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,880 that people ask, but it's not going to be direct. 1058 00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,720 But you got to kill 1, you got to marry one, and you have one 1059 00:49:51,720 --> 00:49:55,640 specific shoe you get 5 uses in. And you could choose whatever 1060 00:49:55,640 --> 00:50:00,520 those 5 uses are across your lifespan instead of kill one, 1061 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:01,360 marry 1. You know what I mean? 1062 00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,880 Like, yeah, all right, you get you get the general idea. 1063 00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:10,080 So you have the ASIC Super Blast Two, you have the New Balance SC 1064 00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,960 Trainer 3 and you have the Brooks Glycerin Max. 1065 00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:15,800 What am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to do again? 1066 00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:20,600 One's got to go, one you get to keep and 1 you get 5 select 1067 00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:23,720 special uses or one time whatever. 1068 00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,560 I'm sorry, New Balance, I'm getting rid of the SC Elite or 1069 00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:31,560 not the SC Elite, the SC trainer version three. 1070 00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:36,520 I'm going to keep the Super Blast for the five uses. 1071 00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:38,480 And I think. I'm going to do the majority of 1072 00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,800 the runs in the Glycerin Max all right, because that's kind of 1073 00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:43,800 how it's I mean like, and I think a lot of a lot of people 1074 00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:45,440 are going to work well with the SC trainer. 1075 00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,560 It just I found it because I think the plates too close to my 1076 00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:50,160 foot. I just found a little bit too 1077 00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:53,320 stiff, even though, and it's also I feel like 1/2 size small. 1078 00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:56,160 Not everybody agrees with me on that, but it's still great. 1079 00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,360 She like got 100 miles on, but it just didn't work as well for 1080 00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:03,880 me compared to glycer Max. I just weirdly loved it was 1081 00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:05,560 stable neutral. It worked really well. 1082 00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:07,080 I liked a little bit of lower drop. 1083 00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:10,520 It felt like weirdly, despite how heavy it is, I could. 1084 00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:12,560 It bounced me along, which is really great. 1085 00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:14,240 And that was the most comfortable shoe for me. 1086 00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:18,040 I'm gonna say some stuff about the Super Blast. 1087 00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,600 Everybody thinks I absolutely love it and honestly, I'm a 1088 00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,840 little bit annoyed right now because I feel like the Super 1089 00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:27,440 blast isn't as smooth and the fit isn't as good as version 1090 00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:28,640 one. It's also not as good as it 1091 00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:31,200 could be like that four foot's really tapered. 1092 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:33,840 Does it feel good on like some of the more aggressive, like 1093 00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,120 faster long runs that my wife drags me on? 1094 00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,720 Yeah, like it can move. I I stand by this being a great 1095 00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,760 race shoe for the recreational runner over the half the full 1096 00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:45,080 marathon. Do I like running it at all the 1097 00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:48,240 time? Yeah, which is why I'm going to 1098 00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:52,000 pick that as the I'm doing this, you know, the five runs, IE like 1099 00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:53,800 the longer, faster stuff than you do. 1100 00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,240 But majority of my miles still give the glycerin Max because I 1101 00:51:56,280 --> 00:52:00,400 want that just classic trainer, which goes against totally 1102 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,560 liking normally lightweight trainers for doing everything. 1103 00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:04,200 But it's been a it's a solid shoe. 1104 00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:06,400 All right, I'm going to turn that back. 1105 00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:10,400 David, same question to you. OK, same 3 shoes. 1106 00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:12,080 Yeah. Or should we change it up? 1107 00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,480 Oh, that's fine. Now let's do the same 3 let's 1108 00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:16,040 same. Three, I mean the cluster Max is 1109 00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:17,680 going to go. It just doesn't line up with my 1110 00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:21,480 mechanics. Not a knock against the shoe. 1111 00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:22,920 I actually think it is a really nice shoe. 1112 00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:27,560 It's just not for me. So that leaves me to keeping one 1113 00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:31,200 and one for select occasions. We are looking at the Super 1114 00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,280 Blast two in the SC Trainer three. 1115 00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:37,920 I probably go SC Trainer 3 to keep for the daily training 1116 00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,600 efforts more and more and then the Super Blast 2 for kind of 1117 00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:44,200 the special occasions. Yeah, that, that lines up with 1118 00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:45,840 me a little bit closer. Sweet. 1119 00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,320 I'm laughing because poor David, can I make fun of you? 1120 00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,760 Yeah, go for it. So normally David's like the one 1121 00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,880 that ragged on everybody, especially Nathan all the time. 1122 00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:59,080 And then, you know, as, as things have have changed and you 1123 00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:00,920 know, we're really, we're all really busy. 1124 00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:03,600 And right now we're again, we're very lucky to get product, but 1125 00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:05,480 we're also get a lot of it. And so we're trying to divvy up 1126 00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:07,720 and figure out like, OK, you got this, you got this. 1127 00:53:07,720 --> 00:53:09,320 We're trying to get stuff out. Poor David. 1128 00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:12,800 I was like referencing like Puma and like Puma hasn't said David 1129 00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:14,800 anything. So I was almost going to 1130 00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:18,200 immediately jokingly say what? I'm going to give you 3 top Puma 1131 00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:18,640 shoes. Oh. 1132 00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,640 Man, that'd. Be cold and then what's your top 1133 00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:23,440 discount? Don't worry, there's plenty of 1134 00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:25,640 big cat energy out here. I don't have any hard feelings 1135 00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:27,160 towards them. I know, I know. 1136 00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:28,880 Yeah. I haven't run in any of them for 1137 00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,960 a little while. Maybe if my fast start 3 1138 00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:34,280 survives I'll I'll I'll send it to you. 1139 00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:38,160 That's that's all good, man. We've got, we've got a pretty 1140 00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:40,000 good bag of shoes here to wear too. 1141 00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:41,760 I think we think we're all right, yeah. 1142 00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:44,240 Yeah, we're doing good. We're you feel very, very 1143 00:53:44,240 --> 00:53:46,520 fortunate. And again, that is why we spend 1144 00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,080 so much time trying to give honest reviews and get content 1145 00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:51,600 out for you guys to help you. We don't do this because we're 1146 00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:53,520 not influencers. And I'm going to say that again, 1147 00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:55,920 our job is to be educators and help you figure out what works 1148 00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:59,360 best for you and give you honest opinions and also educate you on 1149 00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:02,240 going, here's the mechanisms that may work for you, here's 1150 00:54:02,240 --> 00:54:04,560 what might not. You need to figure out as an 1151 00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:06,440 individual what is going to work for you. 1152 00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:09,000 And so part of this going to be, hey, you find one of us that you 1153 00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:12,480 match awesome, but you also have to take responsibility and you 1154 00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:16,000 have to test this too, right? You have to, and we've all made 1155 00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:17,440 mistakes. You got to have to have some 1156 00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:18,720 shoes. You're like, this wasn't as good 1157 00:54:18,720 --> 00:54:21,360 as an idea and other ones you go, OK, that was better and 1158 00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:23,200 learn through this. And we're hoping we can support 1159 00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,560 you on that journey. As always, you can find us on a 1160 00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:28,280 bunch of different places. We're on LinkedIn, I get to give 1161 00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:30,240 a shout out as always, LinkedIn is popping. 1162 00:54:30,240 --> 00:54:33,120 How many thousands of followers do we have on there? 1163 00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:36,200 It's amazing. Shot kills it. 1164 00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:38,920 We're obviously on the major social media channels, be it 1165 00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:42,240 Facebook, Instagram, I think we've got X as well that I don't 1166 00:54:42,240 --> 00:54:44,200 look at because I don't I don't have X. 1167 00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:48,440 We're also on a variety of different places from Spotify to 1168 00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:50,120 iTunes. And of course, we're on YouTube 1169 00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:53,480 where you can see this view it as opposed to listening to it in 1170 00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:55,760 a variety of different areas. We do really appreciate your 1171 00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:57,320 support. If you are listening to a 1172 00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,240 variety of areas, please like and subscribe. 1173 00:54:59,240 --> 00:55:01,520 It does help. And as always, please comment 1174 00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:05,320 below because not only do we want you to give feedback on 1175 00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,520 what you're experiencing because we, even though we don't always 1176 00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:10,880 respond, because remember, we have all of us have at least one 1177 00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:14,640 if not 2 full time jobs, We do read your stuff. 1178 00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:16,760 And even if we don't respond to it, the other piece that's 1179 00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,480 really helpful is when you do post stuff or you respond on 1180 00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,920 YouTube for example, it also helps other people. 1181 00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:23,320 And I'm going to repeat this again. 1182 00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:25,400 We do this because we want to support you and help you. 1183 00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:27,840 We are physical therapists, we are biomechanists, we are 1184 00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:30,080 professors. We want you to run healthy. 1185 00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:32,960 We don't want you to have to need rehab, although injuries do 1186 00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:34,960 happen. We want you to learn what's best 1187 00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:37,800 for you so you can go out there and run healthy and and happy 1188 00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:40,280 and hopefully have some fun along the way. 1189 00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:42,280 So as always, thanks for listening and hope this is 1190 00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:43,240 helpful. That's it.